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Trust in a Bottle
flosofl writes "The BBC has a report on oxytocin and its ability to skew our trust levels. 'The participants in the study played a game, in which they were split into "investors" and "trustees." The investors were then given credits and told they could chose whether to hand over zero, four, eight or 12 credits to their assigned trustee.' Some of the investors were given oxytocin via nasal spray. The results were surprising: 'Of 29 investors who were given oxytocin, 13 (45%) displayed "maximal trust" by choosing to invest highly, compared to six (21%) of the 29 investors who were given the dummy spray.' When the trustee was a computer, there was no difference between the two test groups."
When the trustee was a computer, there was no difference between the two test groups."
Except they were *way* cooler....
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
Now, we're going to be inundated with junk mail drenched in pheromones.
I see that stuff alot in police departments, now I know why!
For this to really be worked out you need to do multiple test on a much larger scale. The people in the one group could have just been suckers.
- MOSKIE
Websters defines trust as the act of trusting.
How many people are led down the primrose path to Hell by some friend or lover who we trusted completely? Whether it be some sort of suddent infidelity or a constant wearing down of trust, that person eventually broke our trust.
Now, in the light of our experience, we look at all of our future relationships through the darkened glass of failed trust. Is it any wonder that half of all marriages end in divorce now? We can't open our hearts to those we love 100% because it means that we may have our trust abused again.
The problem isn't lack of trust. The problem is, and always has been, the lack of trustworthiness.
But one expert warned it could be misused by politicians who want to persuade more people to back them.
For some reason I picture Honor Blackman flying over the electorate on election day, spraying this 'trust potion' from light aircraft.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Oxytocin scented heavy duty condoms; sold at truck stops everywhere!
Humor from a Genetically Molested Mind
In response to an email solicitation for help in getting $20 million dollars...
A match made in Heaven. Nevermind the uses in schools, stores, and indoctrination centers like national political and Amway conventions
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I trust you're correct.
the results were pretty damn spectacular.
Its interesting that when a computer was the trustee, there was no measured effect from the oxytocin. If this effect is replicated for all non-human interaction, then the use of this on a larger scale would seem to be limited. However, there are interesting repercussions for the use of this kind of thing in business negotiations, where there can be control over the environment and a degree of trust could have a vital swing in decisions made
Being able to 'over-ride the fear of being betrayed', as it is put in the article could be a powerful factor in swaying decisions, and I would hope that by the time of any mass-market availability or application that ways and means of testing would be available for those environments that require 100% impartiality.
Business Voyeur
The lengths some people will go to to get published.
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29 huh? Doesn't that seem a little low for good experimental results? I mean, 13 to 6 isin't really that signifigant of a number in the long run. I'll wait to judge until this study is repeated.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
This may sound like a joke, but it's not intended as such. Is it possible we could see this as the next form of date-rape drug? It seems like it would be much harder to tell if someone had injested it (they wouldn't pass out or be too tipsy)...this could be bad...
Before you mod me funny, think, perhaps I was insightfully funny?
Whatever happened to that "smell-o-vision"-type odiferous computer add-on from a few years back? Is this the trick that Bill will use to keep us using Windows?
Seriously though, odours *are* powerful memory triggers. "Deja-Pew", sort of.
I'll trust the researchers when I try it out myself.
Perhaps this is a bad reflection on me, but my immediate reaction was:
;-)
'heh - I've oftentimes placed my trust in a bottle...'
but I've been known to drink rather heavily, I guess
Well, duh... The 'unwashed masses' have never been trust worthy... Who will you trust better: A doctor smelling of ether, or a doctor smelling of cheap wine?
Oh well, what the hell...
WOW, you give people heroin (which is what Oxycontin is) and they suddenly form bonds and empathy with one another quite easily! Shocking! Isnt this amazing 'trust' part of the collage of emotions surrounding why we all like to get drunk and high around one another in the first place? I'd like to see this study repeated with the subjects having 4 shots of whiskey first or if you wanted to see a remarkable 100%, give them ecstacy.
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
Humor impaired moderators: the preceding was an attempt at humor.
Electric Monkey Pants
For a second there I thought they were talking about oxycontin. High on that you might trust anyone.
Isn't this a hormone supposedly released during the female orgasm?
Striking fear in the authors of godawful fanfiction, I am here, appearing in darkness, Tuxedo Jack!
I can see the main motivator of the next election. Just imagine the possibilities, a new date rape drug, a new advertising method, and a court ordered "trust" session to get at "the truth"
Talking to geeks is like eating jello with a chainsaw, interesting, but painful.
Unless you want a tinfoil gas mask or water purifier.
No, but if you would shower daily, your luck would probably improve. ;-)
Oh well, what the hell...
Now I can get my [fake mail order] University Degree /and/ real [bacterial] culture diversity all on the same certificate.... just like if I had gone to Univeristy and dorm-hopped, or eaten cafeteria food.
Well said. You can't even trust the people who love you to not stab you in the back repeatedly...sorry, I'm just a little bitter.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
I'm curious how this affects the "trust level" of people who were previously burned, especially by the person you are expected to trust. Is it just automatic, or do you still have some ability to balance it... If not, this could turn out to be the holy grail for all kinds of good and evil purposes.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
"Oxytocin is the most commonly used labor-stimulating agent. Other methods of stimulating labor include nipple stimulation..."
Suddenly, my mind is making way too many connections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycontin
Dear Reader: Enclosed is a free sample of oxycotin. We are sending to you because we are in a bind you see. The Nigerian department of South America has $10 million dollars from the government to Rush Limbaugh's school of Churches. We need you to wire us $5000 immediately to help free this money from government oppression. thank you, Ubuntu
that Oxycontin skews our trust levels.
Maybe it's the abscence of oxycontin that skews our trust levels to the negative.
If you ask people, they SAY they would prefer to live in a more trusting world. To the extent we can choose our attitudes instead of having our attitudes chosen by survival instinct would be a good thing.
Wait. I'd better call my broker and ask him how that VA software stock I bought is doing.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
i believe you're thinking of oxycontin. it seems lots of people posting are making the same mistake. this isn't the pain killer oxycontin, this is oxytocin which is used to induce labour and breastfeeding.
I don't know if anyone else here has tried it.
But the 40mg pills I had were way too crazy to be taken whole, generally a quarter to half pill. Quite a step up from your vicodin or percocet.
He takes a tip from the silicon chip makers and uses the same type of technology to etch a pattern in a wafer. Then he creates a mold (like a mask, not like the stuff growing in the crotches of slashbots) which he can use repeatedly as a printing template.
Since a lot of bacteria grow resistant to antibiotics, it makes sense to use this kind of "printing press" to study how they create their protective biofilm. As a species, we are slowly succumbing to our own success at killing off bacteria. However the rise of super-bacteria that are immune to our medicines is a huge worry. If this type of research can shine some light on why these bacteria are so resistant and how we can control them to be less dangerous to us, then we will be able to hold off our extinction for a few more years.
From the article:
When trustees were replaced by a computer, the oxytocin effect was no longer seen on the investors.
I find this fact to be of most interest.
But the question is, how was the computer being operated? was there a human typing things to the investors through a computer, or was it an AI asking various preprogrammed lines of questions and taking various approaches? The difference being, if its a human operating the computer (one of the same humans that were getting higher trust responses when in the flesh) that means a lot of what has to with trusting depends on appearances and the expressiveness of the human body, and we generally agree when rationally approaching a trust situation. On some level this holds true even if its an AI.
-- "Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains." Jean Jacques Rousseau
If you lack the ability to judge with logic then perhaps then its a chemical, but I always thought that trust is based on experience, logic, character of the people you are dealing with and a lot of other factors, and even then its never absolute.
"Civic alarm at such abuses should have started long before this study."
Bad scientist, no heaven.
-GW
First, real trust has nothing to do with gambling or business. You don't have to trust in situations like that, you just have to make decisions based on previous knowledge.
Example, if I lend you money and you pay it back on time, keep your word, etc, your word gains worth and value, and I'll be more likely to lend you money in the future. This is not trust, this is simply tracking a persons reputation. You can invent a pill to help people trust but theres no pill on earth which will make a person stupid. If this is an attempt at making a sucker pill, well its a nice attempt and I'm sure a few people will buy the sucker pill and start trusting strangers. Myself, I won't trust anyone who hasnt earned it, and earning it isnt easy, takes time, effort, and a proven track record.
oxytocin is rare these days, microsoft has bought most of it up....
I think that during WWII, if a couple of blocks of, say, London had been contaminated by a dirty bomb, people would have been relatively unmoved.
They had more fatal stuff to worry about.
What about putting this substance in food.
I think we should be careful about the food we consume at political events!!
On a serious note, [tinfoilhat] certain groups within the government (both her and in the UK) have a long long history of seeking behavioural modification drugs that affect the actions of people without a discernable altering series of symptoms.
I have a video of UK soldiers who were being filmed on training missions after receiving LSD unknowingly. In this case, they were given way too much and the results were not good.
I have a very good friend, who just last week, confided in me about her brothers recent court martial from the Marines. Apparently he was in Iraq and he and 47 others in his platoon were being given meth amphetamines by superiors during battle. They were (all 47) court martialled from the marines recently after they were convicted of "buying narcotics from street dealers" when in fact they were being given the drugs from the military and were not allowed to sleep for very extended periods of time...
I wasnt told the details about how they were caught, but they were under diress not to reveal the true nature of the situation to the court martial.
[/tinfoilhat]
$5.50 for 20 I.U. "Keep out of reach of children".
/. virgins and dyslexic dopeheads!
Go get it all you
That Rush Limbaugh is a very trusting fat, pasty white guy.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Where can I get some of this to use on the wife?
Ubuntu: If at first you don't succeed, blindly slap a sudo in front of it
So many numbers, so little time.
Never make important decisions based on emotion. Decisions based on fear, anger, hate, love, trust.
One of the most important decisions is voting.
I'm very proud of my sensible Dutch countrymen and I'm very disappointed in the easy-to-fool half of the USA.
Did I just make you feel an emotion? Envy? self-righteousness?
- -- Truth addict for life.
This hormone is produced when female nipples are stimulated. Maybe you guys can get her to trust you.
Join Tor today!
This will be useful in preliminary interrogation.
Is there some antidote to this, like some type of mistrust spray or cologne? I simply don't trust people to use this honestly.
It would be a useful thing to wear to such places as car dealerships, political rallies, and investment seminars, where they might secretly spray the premises with this "trust" potion, and walk away with your money or love.
In it mentioned that politicians are marketing folks can do things so that people start producing oxytocin. so you don't need to go around and start spraying people per se.. you just need to get them feeling a certain way and their brains will start generating the stuff.
There's simply no way this is possible. It's rediculous. Hold on, there's a knock at my door.
Like I was saying, you have to really trust a source like the BBC.
Oxytocin is in fact the hormone that is released by women during labour. It helps to progress labour and act as a pain killer. I don't know how they first made the link between a childbirth hormone and trust - but there you go!
Nothing!
Or does this experiment seem a little flawed? What's up with "credits?" Obviously, none of the participants had any attachment to the credits, why would it matter whether or not they trusted the people they were giving them away to? Perhaps if the study had them giving real money or lending personal items, I would take this more seriously. To me, this seems like just a bad experiment.
Bwaaaaaa, Chicha, Bwaaaaaaa, Bwaaaaaa
I prefer bow chicka bow bow
I remember reading an article in Discover that oxytocin had been identified as a hormone responsible for monogamy.
IIRC, there were two species of voles. One monogamous, one not. The monogamous ones had high levels of oxytocin, the licentious ones, low.
When the species with low levels of oxytocin were injected with oxytocin they became monogamous.
Pretty straightforward cause and effect.
I've noticed a lot of people posting stuff about "OxyCOTin" - the pain killers...
The article is talking about something totally different: "OxyTOCin" - a hormone, with a few defined activities related to birth and lactation...
*Oxytocin is a hormone that is known to reach highly elevated levels during the female orgasm. Thank you, AP Biology.
IIRC, women get a massive burst of oxytocin when giving birth, thus bonding them with their infant. Clever evolutionary strategy, since it makes it more likely that one parent will take care of the kid.
My wife thinks our son can do no wrong. Me, I wonder when he's going to get a Real Job. Feh.
Obviously politcally useless as you are going to associate the scent with the persons standing near you and when it comes to voting you will just increase your trust everybody there with out political preference. Only really effective at point of sale i.e expect used car dealers etc. to buy it in bulk.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Had you gone to a [real] university you would have known that oxytocin is not of bacterial origin.
Currently, it's easy to 1) amplify large chunks of DNA verbatim and 2) change individual nucleotides. What is difficult is making large blocks of novel or heavily modified sequence, as it's expensive or impossible to synthesize them from nucleotides. Codon Devices seems to have a way to generate large chunks of customized sequence.
How important that turns out to be, we'll see, but the company does have some really smart people behind it. Anyway, that's how I understand it to work -- feel free to contribute a better analogy.
You skim-reading cretins should read the actual word. This is one of those times that "Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy...." doesn't quite work... :D
The penis enlargement, viagra emails just got some company. Oxytocin scented candles anyone?
...hasn't beer been having this effect for years? :-)
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
It's not a date rape drug substitute, at least in the obvious sense.
Ingestion doesn't work -- it's destroyed before hitting the brain.
Inhalation does work, but according to the researchers (who obviously have some bias), a very high concentration is required -- they implied that it would be a visible fog in the air to be causing significant impact.
Injection is apparently ideal. The new truth serum for a good cop/bad cop scenario?
Of course, given the vast range of applications of a substance that makes someone love and trust another, I'm sure that there are all kinds of chemical companies, governments, and individuals batting around all sorts of ideas.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
There is no proof this works. They were just able to fool the BBC reporter into trusting their supposed research results.
...
Er, wait a second
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
45% of people trust others when smelling this,
Some might round up and say half of the sample
population.
Dude, it's only 13 people out of 29,
and it's even less since
6 others were also trusting,
So say 7, that's right, 7 people, who
knows how they were selected.
I know most of the "used-car salesmen will spray us with this!" posts are mostly joking... but I think it's worth keeping in mind that it would be illegal to force someone to injest/inhale such a chemical. I mean, secretely giving your customers all kinds of drugs, in order to make them give up their money more easily, is clearly illegal. This hormone is not as potent as a drug, but I believe it would still be regulated (in the US, by the FDA). Thus, its inclusion into consumer products (such as food) would be controlled (probably banned!), and I highly doubt anyone would get away with massive dissemination-of-hormones-through-air efforts.
The much scarier outcome (in my opinion) is: "current marketing techniques - for political and other products - may well exert their effects through the natural release of molecules such as oxytocin in response to well-crafted stimuli." I think it's somewhat scary how advertisers are using the wealth of information from psychology research in order to craft their campaigns. I see nothing wrong with advertisers doing the best job they can to attract attention to a product, but there comes a time where it goes from advertising to being immoral manipulation. Will we reach a day when advertisers are able to profile us each so well that they can manipulate us into buying things we really don't need or want? Has that day already arrive? Am I supposed to make some obscure reference to tinfoil now?
" I want to be able to trust people more. That means I have to be able to throw them further."
--bash.
"What does slashdotting mean?"
"You've never heard of slashdot?"
"I know it makes websites not work."
Hypersensitive environmental nanny-statists, you can get anything you want, at Natalie's restaurant.
Reuse any hardware you want from Natalie's Restaurant,
Reuse any hardware you want from Natalie's Restaurant,
Monitors, just around the back,
Just a half a mile from the railroad track,
And you can get any grits you want at Natalie's Restaurant.
-Corporate America
(%i1) factor(777353);
(%o1) 777353
No, Trust ME ;)
Seriously, you need a battery of tests to determine this sort of thing. One small test has too great of a margin of error. Extraneous variables could easily slip in...
I'm not sure I trust the reporting. Wait, let me take some oxytocin....Ah, that's better. My, what a great news story! I can easily see how its conclusions fit reality.
Firstly, isn't trust just another label for apathy? And secondly, if one increases the level of apathy, wouldn't they invest similarly? Just a note from someone who doesn't care
something should be here besides this dumb message
Yes, it's generally a good idea to be trusting the person stimulating your nipples. Maybe oxytocin makes that easier.
I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
... that oxytocin is also the main drug used in inducing labor, usually for moms who aren't delivering fast enough for the doctor to make their tee time.
...is WEAR IT and...[audience]HIT IT!
From the inventor of the Showtime(TM) and the GLH hair system!
(I couldn't think of a two-syllable word for sex that rhymed with "wear"...)
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Can useful amounts of Oxycontin be absorbed through the skin
(think drug coated pens, door knobs, etc)
Q. But why not just dope their drinks?
A. because that would be stupid
I guess the other big question is why not just use LSD.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
It took them this long to discover alcohol's effects? They must be beyond geeky.
Yesterday when I submitted this story. For some reason I trusted the Slashdot editors.
It got rejected today, then CowboyNeal posted it this evening.
Nice job CowboyNeal! You must have a very challenging and fulfilling career.
At least it's not a dupe. But that's only because I checked that for you...
you will believe this study...
in lactating (breastfeeding) mothers, oxytocin stimulates myoepithelial cells, causing milk to be ejected into the ducts of the mammary glands.
So, if you are worried about being affected by this hormone in public gatherings, just stand near a group of lactating women. If they all start leaking milk, you've been hit.
I am not a robot. I am a unicorn.
Wow get people high and they trust you, get them addicted and they will die for you.
-=Linsys=-
http://www.intrusionsec.com
Casinos are going to be all over this. I mean seriously could you imagine what would happen if they managed to figure out a feasible method of doing this in the betting areas they would make a fortune (well more so then they already do)
You are missing on how this will be abused. Marketing firms will do anything to get you to buy. They made TV so you get 12 minutes of a show you want, then 3 minutes of louder and brighter commercials. That stopped working too well, so the marketing firms started paying television show producers to place thier products in shows.
Marketing firms hire psychologists and doctors to find ways to get people attention, put the consumer in a more relaxed and willing mood to buy their product.
Look at all the commercials on television that are for weight loss. They show beautiful women and guys with rock hard abs, they praise the product like it changed their life. Then in the smallest possible letters the following is written: "atypical results". To anyone who has not scored over 700+ on the SAT verbal, that probably has little meaning, if you can even see it!!
So how will this new scent that increases trust be used. Don't be suprised if you walk by an advertising poster in a local shopping mall, and get a wiff of something that makes you really believe whatever the poster says. Je'n sait pas, mais je crois!!
But the greatest harm this will do is to make us less trusting of each other. We will become more callous and apathetic. Nuerotransmitters are not available in unlimited qualities. Once used, it takes a time until more is available. Also, since this scent works on a phisiological level, we will no longer be as trusting, the threashold for trust on a phisiological level will be increased. This is just like the tolerance for capsiacin, or hot peppers. The first time someone has a jalepenjo, it will taste much hotter than the 500th habanero someone eats, even though the habanero is 100X hotter a pepper. The first burn is always the worst, the body adjusts the threshold for a nueron to fire.
So, what will we have. More companies trying to push their product down our throat. They will blur the line between advertising and getting a physiological response. And as a society, we will increasingly become less trusting, more apathetic, and more miserable.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Of these teenagers that were caught breaking into a chemist - consuming on site, and stealing for sale, a massive amount of Oxytocin. Due to its simmilar name to a drug named Oxycontin...
Personally, I think spending a night in jail wide-eyed and with a desire to cuddle others would of been more than enough punishment for the lot...
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
Aren't we supposed to give her the Spanish Fly first? Beavis, you dumbass.
I certainly would not perscribe oxytocin for these purposes. Oxytocin is typically used to induce labor and reduce postpartum bleeding.
In terms of mechanism of action, during pregnancy, oxytocin receptors in the uterus are up-regulated and the release of oxytocin from the posterior pituitary results in one of the few positive feedback mechanisms in the human body.
Despite this, the role of oxytocin in normal labor is uncertain.
We certainly do not want to be using it for "trust" if we do not even know how it fully functions during normal labor.
Seriously Baby! , I can prescribe anyZing , i Vant
... or is it human error that has made all these people post about different articles in here?
Every cloud has a silver lining, but, then again, so does every cigarette packet.
"These aren't the droids you're looking for." Obi-Wan palmed a spraycan of Oxitocin and waved it around. "He can go about his business."
The stormtrooper stared blankly at Kenobi, as his masks surgery-room-grade air scrubbers quietly filtered the chemical. A second more, and he decided the old man was bullshitting him. A quick signal and a short hail of blaster fire later, the occupants of the speeder were smoldering corpses, and the droids were in the care of a professional deprogrammer.
Doesn't have quite the mystique.
Rush Limbaugh takes Oxycontin, and you need to take Oxytocin to believe him.
It seems so obvious, doesn't it? Don't sue the people who pay your bills.
The problem is that too often public companies, especially ones that aren't doing well, end up having to resort to short-term moneymaking schemes to meet their earnings (so that they have a chance to sell more stock and raise more funds).
SCO's short-sighted profit-boosting measures should have been (and likely were) regarded as signs of a company that was (well, is) in serious trouble.
TFA:
Further, the speculations of Dr. Damasio border on paranoia:
Honestly, who shows up to political rallies? Not generally people who need to be convinced of the candidate's trustworthyness.
I'd be far more concerned with realistic abuses like date rape, or door-to-door "salesmen," scamming old people out of their money.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Do you want to install and run "Microsoft DRM" signed on 6/1/2005 3:40 PM and distributed by
Microsoft Corporation
Publisher authenticity verified by Microsoft Windows Verification Intermediate PCA
Caution: Microsoft Coperation asserts that this content is safe. You should only install/view this content if you trust Microsoft Corporation to make that assertion.
[ ] Always trust content from Microsoft Corporation
NO
Pssssssssssssssssssssss!
(hey, what's that coming out of the computer?)
(Something smells funny).
(10 minutes later)
[x] Always trust content from Microsoft Corporation
YES.
(boy, am I ever glad I bought one of those new Pentium 4s!!! The chip has everything!!!)
The Internet is generally stupid
I'm sure George Bush will think that this is just the magic pixie dust (er.. spray) he needs to get his Social Security reform agenda off the ground.
Government Official: "In order for me to issue you your new Social Security ID, please sign here, here and here and sniff here."
1. Do a test confirming that oxytocin makes people dumber
2. Launch large scale manufacturing of oxytocin impregnated sprays to be used in conference rooms nationwide
3. Profit!
http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/en docrine/hypopit/oxytocin.html
Physiologic Effects of Oxytocin
In years past, oxytocin had the reputation of being an "uncomplicated" hormone, with only a few well-defined activities related to birth and lactation. As has been the case with so many hormones, further research has demonstrated many subtle but profound influences of this little peptide. Nevertheless, it has been best studied in females where it clearly mediates three major effects:
* Stimulation of milk ejection (milk letdown): Milk is initially secreted into small sacs within the mammary gland called alveoli, from which it must be ejected for consumption or harvesting. Mammary alveoli are surrounded by smooth muscle (myoepithelial) cells which are a prominant target cell for oxytocin. Oxytocin stimulates contraction of myoepithelial cells, causing milk to be ejected into the ducts and cisterns.
* Stimulation of uterine smooth muscle contraction at birth: At the end of gestation, the uterus must contract vigorously and for a prolonged period of time in order to deliver the fetus. During the later stages of gestation, there is an increase in abundance of oxytocin receptors on uterine smooth muscle cells, which is associated with increased "irritability" of the uterus (and sometimes the mother as well). Oxytocin is released during labor when the fetus stimulates the cervix and vagina, and it enhances contraction of uterine smooth muscle to facilitate parturition or birth.
In cases where uterine contractions are not sufficient to complete delivery, physicians and veterinarians sometimes administer oxytocin ("pitocin") to further stimulate uterine contractions - great care must be exercised in such situations to assure that the fetus can indeed be delivered and to avoid rupture of the uterus.
* Establishment of maternal behavior: Successful reproduction in mammals demands that mothers become attached to and nourish their offspring immediately after birth. It is also important that non-lactating females do not manifest such nurturing behavior. The same events that affect the uterus and mammary gland at the time of birth also affect the brain. During parturition, there is an increase in concentration of oxytocin in cerebrospinal fluid, and oxytocin acting within the brain plays a major role in establishing maternal behavior.
About time someone analysed it. Now all we need is the antidote and someone at Apple will be able to stop him before he (e.g.) sues his fanbase!
If you are on Oxycotin, and it makes you feel fantastic, who cares if your "trustee" steals your money. YOU ARE ON DRUGS!, you don't care about money. Its like saying that when I've downed 3 or 4 martinis, I am trusting that people won't laugh at me when I dance.
. . . . So now that we have made trust in a bottle. How about the next invention be trustworthiness in a bottle.
oxytocin spewing overlords....
before we start receving Oxytocin spam? Or its superior herbal equivalent Oxial1s?
Cheers
Stor
"Yeah well there's a lot of stuff that should be, but isn't"
no, this won't get you laid. neither will working out, nor hitting the knife. your only chance to get laid is to die early and be reborn as someone worthy of getting laid. so help yourself out: slice your throat now - it'll get you laid faster.
FIRST let's try putting a candidate for up for office that has qualities clearly the opposite of those that should generate trust in voters. Pick someone that obviously isn't very intelligent, has a history of alcoholism, has had major financial support from a corporation with known corrupt management, and has been caught in numerous misleading statements and lies.
THEN find a large pool of voters exposed to oxytocin or a similar hormone. Since oxytocin is involved in production of breast milk, we could try giving cows extra hormones knowing some will pass through to the milk that humans consume. No one will pay much attention if we explain that it is for increased milk production.
NEXT have an election.
oh wait.....
I don't see why this is so surprising... many frat boys use another drug, alcohol, to gain the trust of their female cohorts. What I'm wondering is if this Oxytocin has any noticable side effects, like intoxication. Also, if it is the same drug that is released by the body during human bonding experiences, it would seem to me that it's effects would be longer lasting.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
How many more people are going to forget how to read and think it's the wrong drug?
You're only about the 60th person so far, so at least you're not the only asshat.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Ordell Robbie: You can't trust Melanie but you can trust Melanie to be Melanie.
--
make install -not war
Since the effect seems to be producable by a spray, it is entirely possible that the human body releases low levels of this stuff naturally. If that is indeed the case, it might be interesting to see what the levels are around "in person" celebrities - stage performers, those politicians who mingle with the crowd, etc. My guess would be that people who make it in such environments differ at this kind of chemical level from those who prefer to be kept at a distance (it's hard to see how chemical traces could get through a movie screen, for example).
My guess would also be that cult settings include (by accident or design) an exceptionally high concentration of this chemical. If you think about the "stereotypical" settings for such things, you are generally looking at highly charismatic people (see above theory), and very probably a high usage of all kinds of evaporating oils, incence, perfumes, etc. In such a setting, the adding of something that lowered mental resistance would seem to be more of a question of what form it took, rather than whether it was being done.
Despite the First and Seventh Amendments, I would think that it would be a very good idea to ban the willful use of any chemical that impairs reasoning or ability to trust, especially in any religious or political situation where abuse has the potential to be monsterous.
I would also suggest that the law on such matters as criminal insanity be adjusted to allow for this finding, as it would seem possible that a person's ability to tell right from wrong, or make rational judgements as to who to believe on certain matters, would be impaired only in the presence of the person they were around at the time, making it impossible for an independent psychologist to accurately assess the state of mind under laboratory conditions.
It would seem a grave miscarriage of justice to allow serious abusers of human chemical imperetives to be utterly free and lawfully able to continue that abuse, no matter what the consequences. Likewise, it would also seem to be a grave miscarriage of justice if victims of that abuse could be imprisoned or executed because the law had failed to recognize the reality and implications of that abuse.
This is not to sat that all criminals are really innocent victims, but rather that some unknown percentage may well be, especially where cults and charismatics are concerned. I think that the authorities should be taking this seriously. At least, more seriously and more rapidly than said cults and charismatics are.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Well, It worked for Bush limraugh.
"At the end of the game, the credits were translated into real money, meaning both participants had a selfish financial incentive." Sure, they had something to gain by 'winning' the game in the study, but they had nothing to lose in the first place. Its a whole lot easier to trust someone when you can't lose anything. There needed to be more of a gamble in the study (up front fee), but of course, who would want to do that? :P
Woudn't a test involving money/investing be a little sketchy? I mean people on Oxy will just want money for their next fix.
In the latest news, Microsoft is now coating their new software CDs with oxytocin, a substance that has disgruntled linux administrators adopting the most secure server and workstation software since computers were invented.
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
Oxytocin is released in women during nursing, helping establish a stronger bond with the baby. So really, all you have to do to get a woman to trust you is suck on her nipples!
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
oxytocin
n : hormone secreted by the posterior pituitary gland (trade name Pitocin); stimulates contractions of the uterus and ejection of milk [syn: Pitocin]
I wonder if this has anything to do with Steve Job's secret? If so, is it a natural, unconscious thing, or has he already discovered this?
That explains it all! Obi Wan Kenobi uses oxytocin for his shaving cream. I should've seen it before now!
Most men are not thought unwise until they speak.
getting your investors addicted to oxycontin may have very detrimental effects on future business transactions.
Great now I gotta get me some noseplugs to go along with my tinfoil hat liner.
This is where I keep my clever quotes "" Yup I only got a pair, so I better not waste em!
Well, maybe that explains the enormous amount of trust that Rush Limbaugh has in the current administration.
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
If you're going to insult somebody, at least learn how to spell 'Deodorant'. Moron.
But to whom is it usually prescribed? Why is it such a profitable drug? And did they know it can cause blindness?
How dare I malign the great American Doctor, and the great American Corporation in the same post!
emt 377 emt 4
Is it just me, or are there a LOT of posts in this that clearly belong with other topics.
I'm seeing posts on other slashdot stories subjects all over the place here right in the middle of threads.
I droped down to read at -1 thinking maybe just a couple people STARTED talking about these subjects through some sort of connection that got modded down but it only showed up more post that belong in other topics, some clearly replies to someone else, yet not to thier parent post.
So is this some new form of trolling/crapflooding or is slashdot broken?
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Simply put: Don't REAL studies involve HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of samples? I mean when you tell me that 6 people did this and 13 people did that, I would immediately ask if it was raining outside or if something happened in the news that day, etc. Some of those people could have just been in a good mood due to sunny weather thus their influence is elsewhere :)
Give me tests with many, many test subjects. Then tell me that 3,000 of them did this when 65,000 of them did that. Then you'll have this magic potion that we have been trying to create for thousands of years to get women into bed. Put me on the mailing list for updates to that one!
This hormonal stuff cannot be the only ingredient to Trust That Makes a Sale. What happens when people call the subject over a telephone, where there is physical separation?
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
I for one, trust our new nasal spray offering overlords.....
sic transit gloria mundi
Maybe I can finally pull of that "These are not the droids you are looking for" stunt.
Except they were *way* cooler....
Because, as everybody knows, human brain need to dissipate 100W worth of heat constantly.
Your head a splode
They may very well not be measuring 'trust' but 'caring for'. Oxytocin is the hormone that makes people look after and care for children. The most basic care is feeding the children, and giving credits to someone is emotionally very much like feeding someone.
Cos I can see the sales of this compound going through the roof as well as sales of piezoelectric vaporizers.
Nightclubs, sales offices, news conferences, shops, sprays, deodourants, perfumes etc etc etc. Actually it doesn't really matter if the specific delivery mechanism works, only that the person buying it has read the science and believes it does.
Deleted
You know this means another round of mass spamming, don't you. V1@gra and 0xyT0c1N only $15.99.
Deleted
... was done by the CIA on GWB: Before they said: "We have convincing proof that there are WMD in Iraq, trust us!", they secretly gave Bush a little dose of this stuff. And the later events clearly showed that it worked.
;-)
\end{conspiracy theory}
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
"So how will this new scent that increases trust be used. Don't be suprised if you walk by an advertising poster in a local shopping mall, and get a wiff of something that makes you really believe whatever the poster says. Je'n sait pas, mais je crois!! "
Anyone remember the Rock Hudson submarine movie around 1987? It was the one in which contaminated paint used on the bulkheads and hull of the fictional submarine drove the crew batty and caused them to launch missiles and start or nearly start WWIII.
It was a PR disaster for the USN since the navy came under scrutiny by idiotic or fear-whipping journalists who showed up at NSLB (Naval Station Long Beach) and other places, asking sailors about the risks. The USN promptly banned or restricted them from the base and then issued stern orders to ALL of us on the base not to talk to reporters about the subject.
Purportedly, the USN never has had to worry about such a thing (especially since a missile launch has several procedures and a number of nearly-perfect safeguards to prevent a single demented or two conspiring persons from launching without orders from NCA (National Command Authority).
However, if the conspirers so desired, there are ways to at least FIRE/LAUNCH the missiles, tho I suspect that in a perfect world, NCA or the USN could electronically countermand the missiles and make them self-destruct.
Now, here is where things could get interesting. Imagine if someone aerosolizes this "Trust Potion" and finds that it can be used in certain scenarios to induce military or police or government officials in a small, contained environment to take actions induced by external or subliminal input.
I don't think it will be EASY to do, but I imagine it's not *impossible*. Imagine, though, if conspirators stashed this stuff away and then released it into a ship's CIC during the heat of conflict. Whether or not the "agents"/"actors" who released it followed it up with suggestions or statements or persuasions, I imagine that some personnel would come to distrust their sensor readouts, orders from nearby officers, and even wonder if the external orders they received are real or fraudulent.
I imagine this will mean that a whole new round of security inspections will have to be done on the plants of commercial cleaners and suppliers of other products to not just the US services, but to ALL governments' services.
Interesting movie or fiction or reality possibilities.
I reserve the right to treat this in a story, but I will not (and, by early publishing of this opinion, cannot) stop anyone from beating me to the punch. However I expect and assert (and defy ANY court on ANY land to invoke any Berne Treaty to deny my own fictional treatment of this idea.
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Right after posting this, it dawned on me that some may write in saying that it would be hard for an enemy to infiltrate the commercial manufacturing process and then in great, beneficial timing ship the oxytocin to the fleet or field and have it work as planned to disrupt military operations of a government.
But, considering that the BBC piece suggested potential abuse could come from politicians, imagine this:
A war is unpopular. The commander-in-chief of (pick a name of) the nation wants orders to be followed with little (as is typical) shipboard politicking and background guessing and second-guessing as the ship or unit approaches the launch zone. Now, the carefully-placed commanding officers and ship engineers COULD just release the right amounts of oxytocin into a ship's environmental controls (ventilation citdels plenums) or in tanks or airplanes where there are multiple people in the line of orders and actions and where any one failing to act or in which one dissenter can fould up an operation.
This could be a neat/nifty and devious way for commanders or commanders in chief to ensure that they increase the likelihood of their dastardly or well-intentioned orders are carried out with minimum backtalk... especially in the event "political" or "security" officers are able to filter the public news feed, blackout the crew-to-family electronic and paper mail, and sprinkle doses of pre-oxytocin disinformation prior to the launch point and oxytocin release point...
Interesting movie or fiction or reality possibilities.
Again, I reserve the right to treat this in a story, but I will not (and, by early publishing of this opinion, cannot) stop anyone from beating me to the punch. However I expect and assert (and defy ANY court on ANY land to invoke any Berne Treaty to deny my own fictional treatment of this idea.
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
"Trust in a Bottle" There's already millions of chemicals out there that have this effect, alcohol only being the most known of them. Sodium Penthotal coming close second.
I don't have much to add.
seriously, it's not 'Increased trust'
it's 'reduced judgement'
they are HIGH people, you could likely get the same effect with six fingers of bourbon or three lines of cocaine.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
You don't need to see my ID.
...
*spray spray*
Now you don't need to see my ID.
Don't take the above poster too seriously. He doesn't.
It would only affect the impulsive purchaser.
Before I buy something, I always do market research, and I don't care about how trustful the salesman seems or how good the features seem, I ignore all of that and ask to see the owner's manual. If it pans out, I go check out the reviews before making a final decision. Trust of the salesman doesn't enter the equation.
Some salesmen may be nice but they don't know squat about what they're selling. I've had to fight with some salesmen because they tried to convince me that something I wanted to buy don't have a feature that was clearly documented in the owner's manual! (I was right in the end). Even if they know, the product, they don't know me. I'm not Joe-sixpack and joe-sixpack features don't interest me. Glitz and fashion features don't interest me either.
I just need to know four things before I purchase something, does it work the way *I* need it to work, is it reliable, is it practical, does it fit my budget?
Do you honestly think waving your dick at women will help increase their trust in you?
This ain't news, folks.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
I've applied both solutions to my machine and in both instances it started to act funny.
..before his presentations... :)
On Slashdot all you have to do is say some project is Open Source or Peer to Peer, and the Slashdot lemming-nerds will gushing praise over it, whether project has any merit or not.
Like in this test... oxytocin is a hormone, known to be released during sexual stimulation. That just screams "INTERFERENCE!"
I see the test scenario going like this:
In other words, my guess is that the extra "trust" they thought they were measuring was just a side-effect of the subjects wanting to do something with another human being due to elevated hormone levels. That would also explain why they wouldn't "trust" a computer.
Would this be modded Informative instead of Insightful. Heh.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Rock Hudson died in 1985. His "submarine movie" was "Ice Station Zebra", from 1968.
Unless you're a character in a porn story, if she's willing to let you stimulate her nipples, she already trusts you.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
"These aren't the droids you're looking for..."
My other sig is a Porsche!
Has this sort of test been done with other drugs? I'd be willing to bet that a lot of drugs could have the same properties as this one with regard to trust. If a person is doped up on codeine for pain, prozac for depression, or alcohol/marijuana for fun, I'd be willing to bet that their level of trust in people wavers quite a bit. It'd be very interesting to see this test done along with several other drugs as well, rather than a simple control group. Maybe they found what they were looking simply because they started looking for it.
I love being the news! :)
LOL
Oliver's Law: Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Their largest contributor base (corporations) will want this stuff, and the largest voting base (relgious conservatives) will hate the stuff.
We are the 198 proof..
One kind of pheromones makes a woman more attracted to you by the "more trust" and not "more macho" factor (androstenone). This stuff has remarkably similar effects.
Are we looking at new "secret" pick-up cologne ingredient?
Oxytocin has a few roles in the body, lactation and giving birth in women. Its released by nipple play, the way to a man or womans heart is through there nipples. There is also an oxytocin mimic in fenugreek making it a bit of an aphrodisiac. I gave some to a friend, and he ate it all at once, "it didn't do much" "it didn't even make you horny?" "come to think of it I did have sex with my bed.".
Maybe we should have fenugreek and massage parties?
...scientists discover thet people who are high do stupid shit!
Really though, I would like to see the test repeated with other mind altering substances. Maybe you could jack someone's seratonin levels and see what happens when you do the test, or administer some MDMA (kinda does the tame thing, but has other efects as well). Then grab some drunks and repeat the test.
This may just be a correlation between inhibition levels and "intoxication" or at least "adulteration" of the mind. I think that to see what is really going on there need to be more tests done. That is the problem with behavioral testing, correlation and causality can be easily misconstrued. By this I mean that what they are interpreting to "trust" could easily be "trying to impress" or "bad judgement".
And, come to think of it, it would be handy to know what mix of chemicals made it easiest to get someone to hand over all their money to you.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Besides which the primary mode of manipulation of oxytocin is more likely to be audiovisual stimulation since those are the most easily accessed routes of access to human brain function.
Theater, motion pictures, religious gatherings, etc. are the likely sources of these sorts of manipulations.
Oh, and let me know if I misspelled any words, would you?
Thanks.
Seastead this.
I was watching a recent Andromeda with my daughter, and nearly laughed my head off.
As Rommy and Doyle walk down the hall and get surrounded, Rommy waved her hand and announced, "We're not the droids you're looking for."
"What was that?"
"I don't know, but it didn't work."
Later, with the third gal (Becca), they went into Charlie's Angels style fighitn, complete with hair tossing.
I'm wondering how many more references I missed.
hawk
Oxycotin to replace Beer as leading bar goggle!!
n = 29, the power of the study isn't impressive, also testers are not necessarily blinded or controlled in study. Did they give placebo nasal sprays to the control group? In order to correlate oxytocin with trust, did they actually test blood levels of oxytocin in the test groups?
It is possible that the treated group are psychologically biased to act differently.
What about alcohol? - Same effect, costs less.
what are you 15?
Before marketing starts lacing direct mail shot with this hormone ?
Hmm, I can see it now, political posters saturated in oxytocin. "Really, I can run the country. Trust me!"
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Why are we keeping ourselves in the dark with regards to this mental disorder?
Seems like this would help a lot, if not outright cure it.
A fascinating inquiry, I do hope somone investigates further. I'm going to have to ponder this one a bit further.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
1. Trust Spray
2. ???
3. Profit!
There have to be a million #2's, and none of them good.
So from now, I just have to offer a free bottle of that stuff to people all over, than Spam them with numerous offers on
:)
... our world is over soon
"investi in euro"
"my millionaire granpa just died and i want you to have all his money just smuggle it out of the country"
"enlarge your boob, stick, and loose 10lbs weight in one day with our new pill"
ooorrrr.... just mix it into the airconditioning went, then invite some investors for dinner
nice
Don't worry about oxytocin being used by the right-wing to oppress people.
Why?
Because oxytocin can induce labor and hence abortion.
People on the far right would thus never use it.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I'd say about 0.
But, I remember in 1986-is the "Nav" banning us from speaking to or discussing with the press anything having to do with paint in USN nuclear (particularly the missile) submarines.
Don't forget that tho he died circa 1985, the movie may have been in post-production or just wasn't circulated until after his death... maybe his agent needed to get one last check...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Interesting... My comment does indeed read as somewhat haughty: an attempt to mirror the apparent attitude of the original poster.
The OP starts with an objectively incorrect statement. The credibility of the remainder of his post is weakened by such a beginning. If he HAD googled (or even RTFA) he might have made a beter case. More likely, having informed his opinion, he would not have posted in the first place.
Concerning your own statement "... four shots of whiskey probably would make the subjects more trustworthy." Four shots of whiskey might well make a subject more TRUSTING, but trustWORTHY, I doubt. That dose might also make a given subject belligerent, morose, or in unusual cases, unconsious (less unusual for Everclear!).
Concerning MY own experience with alcohol... you almost certinly have no knowledge and therefore your comment can have no significance.
THIS post is, once again, a somewhat pretentious-sounding response, but it is, I believe, suited to the context.
how many of the test subjects went into labor...
"Lack of technical competence coupled with the arrogance of power, as usual, leads to no good end."
Not to mention, now they have something to spray all those Free Speech Zones with.
I don't generally trust strangers unless I have no choice. Deep down I know that any stranger can be a potential backstabber. The key is to get to know a person as well as they know themselves before you trust them. This takes time to establish, more time than your typical salesperson would like to invest.
Social skills has nothing to do with faking trust and everything to do with how you act. If you don't act trustworthy then I'll never trust you and it wont matter what you ever say to me, you cannot hide your actions, you cannot hide your reputation, you cannot hide your fakeness.
Trust is something you have to build over time, its something you have to earn, and depending on who you are earning it from decides how difficult or easy it is to earn. There is not going to be a spray will which clear your record as someone who picks up girls. When these girls talk about you, and how you picked them up their point of views form the entire point of view no matter what you tell people. So unless you plan to hide your past and look suspicious, your past will be up for review along with you.
What the poster above tried to tell you is if you stay fake for too long you lose the real you, you become fake. Do you want to be an expert at manipulating people or do you want to have people who actually like the real you? You can't have real friends if you resort to faking trust because friendship is based on loyalty, if you arent every loyal or trustworthy in actions it will never matter how good you become at faking it. Hopefully you don't forget how to maintain real friendships.
Stop generalizing everyone into one pot. Some things wich work on you and everyone you know won't work on EVERYONE on earth.
Doctors you don't have any choice but to trust, if you don't trust a doctor you'll most likely die, so you don't have much choice, you have to trust one of the doctors. There is no reason to ever trust a salesman, and while a doctor is a salesman for drug companies, there are ways to figuring out which doctors are honest and which doctors arent. Doctors also have reputations.
Prediction is just pattern recognition. When you have a good reputation with others or with me, it helps you earn trust quicker because its by your track record, this is the best kind of trust that can exist. Nothing else matters, what you say has no influence, its all about how real you are and how responsible and loyal you act. If you act fake it won't help people like me trust you, it only makes people like me suspicious of you. I don't really trust a person who smiles in my face and expects me to trust them, I trust the person who has the reputation from everyone else telling me they are loyal, and who from my own experience I've been able to verify. If I cannot verify, then I don't trust you, and thats basically how it works. Verified trust.
Look, if you want to be a sheep who blows in the winds of whichever way the authority figures tell you to blow, then you should be naive like that. If you want to be an independent thinker who makes their own decisions and lives with the consequences, then you have to learn to trust yourself, your decisions, and your ability to figure people out. Your form of trust makes absolutely no sense, you trust based on trust? huh? You trust based on social ties? huh?
Neither of these are very precise forms of trust, because you can be wrong. This means anyone can influence you because you trust everyone, and not everyone is looking out for your best interest. Your strategy leads down the path of consistant betrayal and disloyalty. From experience the only way to have loyalty is to stop accepting anything less. Trust is based on loyalty, not social ties, not emotion, not how long you've known someone. Until you figure this out, you'll be rolling dice instead of playing chess, and its all based on how you'd like to use your mind to figure people out, you can either use your logical mind or you can leave it all to chance.
I prefer to use my logical mind because I don't feel theres room for error. When you make an error you can end up in dozens of really bad situations which require really bad solutions, and the only way to avoid those solutions is to avoid those situations to begin with by not acting emotional or illogical.
But it depends on how you look at it, you can look at it like checkers or like chess. I see it as chess.
I'm not autistic, but I understand exactly what you are saying, loyalty is a rare trait. If loyalty is rare why should trust be common? Trust for me is as rare as loyalty is in this society, so its rare for me to trust people and it takes a special person to earn my trust.
The media is paid to lie to you, that much is true, and corporations cannot be trusted because they lie too, so the best thing to do is try to focus on individuals and attempt to find the individuals who value loyalty and who want this element in their relationship with you. If they truly value it and its proven through their track record, this is a good sign. If they just say they believe in loyalty but don't act it, then treat them how they act.