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Textbooks With EULAs
overshoot writes "We all knew it was coming, didn't we? Now Princeton University and nine others are introducing DRM'd textbooks. For a 33% discount, students get a 5-month node-locked e-book instead of all that glossy paper. Maybe Congress should just get it over with and change the law to allow EULAs on printed works?"
And just what happens when you need to revise for exams? This sounds like a very badly thought out idea that someone didn't want to work.
The Right to Read
Screw the FSM - Real geeks believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn
They can bribe a CS major into unlocking the book forever!
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Ok so what of the academic ideals of spreading knowledge and learning? This is a result of american school industry.. It is unfortunate that learning has become a profit commodity for a privileged few in what is supposed to be a land of equality and opportunity for all...
Sad sad sad...
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
So, any money on how long before the DRM is cracked, and the textbook is "Available now, on a P2P Network near you!"
They allow EULAs on shrink-wrapped software and shrink-wrapped DVDs already, what makes books any different?
Personally I think EULAs are a crock, and the issues of liability and usage they may or may not cover should be dealt sensibly in some different way. Possibly, in the case of software, by companies taking some responsibility for their products. In the case of DVDs, I don't think there should be a license of any kind. But maybe that's just me...
Game dev and music blog
Selling old books was a nice source of cash for me at the end of each semester. Buying used books at the start saved a lot too. I'm not sure a 33% discount will be enough.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
The Difference between Paper and Digital Media is that Digital Media can be copied without any degrades while trying to make copies of books are first expensive, and can cost close to the book, and secondly every copy of the copy will be of lower quality. So DRM is far more important for Digial then Paper. This is the same reason why the Music Indristies are far more panicy about MP3 then coping your music on tape. Because after a while distributuin will degrade on tape.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The hardcopy version lasts years. The electronic copy is 2/3 the price and only usable for 5 months.
Fifteen years after I graduated I still refer to old textbooks from time to time. If you don't want to keep it you can always sell them after use, and probably recover more than a third of the original price.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Paying 2/3 retail for a book you can't mark in, underline, or ceremonially BURN after the class is over?
I don't understand some people's (companies') obsession with e-Books. They didn't catch on. People don't like them. They're a royal pain in the ass. The article says that there are roughly $3.2 million dollars worth of e-books sold every year. $3.2 million?!? That's essentially -zero-. So why are companies still trying to push what has been proven time and time again to be a product that nobody wants? It ain't gonna work.
I don't respond to AC's.
Does this mean I'll have to watch 5 minutes of ads before I can start studying? Just what I need, popup ads with calculus, someone hang me already!
I tended to use books a bit longer than 5 months as reference for later work for example. I think that Princeton is a bit short sighted on this one. The idea I thought was to educate people in how to use material, not in how to cram everything in your head so you do not need the book anymore, apparently since you have the material in your posession for only a limitted amount of time, you will have to remember it all , and if you have to remember it all anyway, why not just copy it (They do make you remember it (out of study perspective), so it is in your mind, so what is the difference with a hard or soft copy, or are you not allowed to remember it either once you have to return your e-book? (tricky laws those copyright laws).
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
I don't want some soulless companies to dictate the way I can use BOOKS.
What's next, EULAs on food packages? "You may not microwave this box for more than 5 minutes on High"
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
A whole 33% off, huh? No media costs, no distribution costs (comparatively) and it's limited in usage and time.
Is this brought to us by the same guys making the next gen DVD's or something??
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you.
This is just another example of how the student gets screwed. Before you could always keep the book or sell it to another student the following semester now you pay the money and in 5 months you have a worth piece of S#$T.
For the record, Princeton University has not signed on to this program. Only the bookstore is involved, and it is not affiliated with the university.
And how long until the electronic version is the ONLY version available? A few years?
The best thing my compSci program did was standardize on regular computer texts (O'Reilly) that will be reused for years (or until the next update) rather than already outdated overpriced textbooks. Llama, Camel, UML in a Nutshell, Java Definitive, Interface Design and others still are used on an almost daily basis. Meanwhile, the $120 C textbook collects dust on the bottom shelf.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
It's a new option that they're offering. If you think hardcopies offer a better value, keep using them. A 1/3 discount may not be enough to make this a roaring success, but they probably have some upfront costs to defray. If the market balks at their price, I'm sure they can get it down to 1/2 before too long.
I kept many of my college texts. In fact, right now, I'm looking at an almost 20 year old copy of my Gwartney and Stroup Econ book as I prepare to teach econ this semester in high school. It's not that I forgot (my BA is econ), just looking for the much better explanations and examples than the text we use.
this is also horrible for another reason. how can students refer back to previous classes? all these people that think technology can cure all. sad really. nothing beats books. and by the way, my masters is in Ed. Tech.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I can understand why some people would want to do this, but I think they would need to provide more than a 33% discount. If it was less than half the original price, I'd go for it. Why? I get less than half back at the end of the year anyway. Plus, the ability to use a search function like you can in text documents would be a plus.
And if you also think about it, if it is accessed online, the professor could make updates to it throughout the semester if mistakes were found.
I think this COULD have good use, but not the way they're trying to push it now.
A 33% discount isn't really enough. At first I'd offer a 50% discount, maybe even more. As more and more people stopped using real books I'd stop selling real books, forcing the remaining people with brains to buy my DRM crap. Then I'd jack the price up to 120%.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I dunno. Make it half off and I might bite. Most of my textbooks I have little or no intention of ever using again. I don't sell them back to the bookstore out of pure obstinacy.
this is bullshit. I didn't read TFA and really do not need to. Anytime I see time-limited access to knowledge I am paying a ton of money for (like my textbooks - which I can use as references later) then I call bullshit. Knowledge should always be for the good of all, not for the good of a few. Trying to lock it away under the guise of a DISCOUNT for the student is utter nonsense and a sham. I was hoping our Universities and academia would stand up for the freedoms that most of us hold dear - they want you to pay for the knowledge they impart to you, but they also want it to be free (as in free thinkers). My humble $.02 US.
Dream as if you'll live forever.
Live as if you'll die tomorrow.
~Anonymous~
Hey, Spitzer, when you're done reaming the music industry for payola, why not take a crack at textbook publishers? (Yes, the pun was intentional)
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
In those cases, a cheaper DRM'ed book would be a good thing since it will reduce my outlay on something which I won't use when the course finishes.
Having said that, 33% isn't much of a discount when you consider that a second hand book can be picked up for 50% the original cost from someone who is in the year above you and will have no usage restrictions. Contrary to popular Slashdot think, DRM isn't generally evil, it's just the the applications of it aren't particulary exciting, fair or appealing.
For example, if this service was available with a 75% discount instead and the option of buying the hard-copy version at a reasonable discount, then it would be an excellent example of DRM done well.
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I can't wait. The reason is that the US Federal courts have a long body of case law on the "first sale" doctrine. A publisher tried to put the equivalent of a EULA on a book back in the 19th century and got shot down, big time.
If someone makes the argument in court that they should be able to have a EULA on a book because they manifestly can on an e-book and there's no fundamental difference, the court is either going to have to twist itself into at least two additional dimensions to avoid either shooting down EULAs on e-books or overturning more than a century of fundamental copyright law.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I was about to post a snide comment about how anyone smart enough to get into Princeton will also eb smart enough to buy a used copy for a discount and then sell it back after it's not needed and save much more than 33%, but then it occurred to me...
If I were filthy rich, I might consider buying one of these things in addition to a real paper version. Some of those 800-page physics and biology texts don't have the best indices in the world, and frequently your mind recalls an interesting turn of phrase from the section you need to look at, but you can't remember what page it's on. A searchable electronic version would put you in the right place instantly.
33% off?!?!?
...? Save 10$, I suppose it will buy a pizza (for the annoyance of needing batteries for your textbook).
I could understand that maybe for the first edition of a textbook. But when you've got Johnny Freshman buying his Calc I textbook that is in it's 800 millionth printing, at 125$ each, they're a bit overpriced. But at least you get to keep it as reference...... and the bookstore will GRACIOUSLY buyback the book at all of 30$ at 33% off for 82$ why would anyone buy the "e-pad"? Either you want the reference material, or
Sounds like a rip-off to me.
You can flip through paper in the John, paper doesn't get erased by viruses, and also, you can resell paper to the next person to take the course. I imagine these DRM textbooks probably cost just as much, however. If they're in pdf format, it is a waste.
As long as they still offer you the paper version, it's really not that bad. If the buyer doesn't care about the text after 5 months and have no qualms about DRM, then should he be given the choice to buy it at a discount? As long as the buyer are given choices, then it's not so bad. More choices for buyer is a good thing. It's when they start pulling the paper version and sell only the DRM version that we should be up in arms about, especially at universities where you have to buy the text.
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Nothing beats a paper back or hard back book. It's tangable and has more depth to it then electronic ones. Plus in a total power outage what are you going to be able to read if you have no batteries and only a candle?
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
The way to a man's heart is through the left ventricle
A long time ago, Grasshoppers, I reviewed a potential textbook for a publisher ... the author went to GREAT lengths to explain how his copy-protected course workbook diskettes were going to produce lots of profit for the bookstores and the publisher. It took me about 30 seconds to unlock his copy protected diskette with a hole puncher from my desk drawer.
I refer back to more than a few of my old textbooks regularly. (Do others?) Even if the same information is available online, I know exactly where to look in my familiar textbooks, and my old notes are often helpful too. I'd hate for all that to be lost.
Even though textbooks are frightfully expensive, the loss of personal history isn't worth 33% off. Even though some information becomes obsolete, basic principles have lasting value. To me, these EULAs are only an admission that the product being purchased doesn't have lasting value. I think that's more true about the publishing executives and lawyers who come up with these ideas than it is about the books themselves.
In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Fifteen Years? How about needing them the following year to prep for your Thesis Defense?
Ok, I see (RTFA) where the book can be "unlocked" for several semesters, but really...
How hard is it to strip the headers off a PDF and keep the body text?
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
I like to make notes all over my books as I go through them. I find it very helpful both for referencing sectoins, making hints, etc. Also, I use sticky tabs like crazy, which as far as I know, cannot be done in E-Books. I wouldnt want to have to make a notepad file to hold all my notes and sticky page numbers.
In addition, I always buy the used textbooks that come with somebody else's notes in the margin, which hopefully will prove to be useful. This, also, cannot happen when purchasing an e-book.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." -Zapp Brannigan
Honestly, I don't see how this is going to hold out for very long. I can guarantee that there will be an uproar from students. Not only are the book prices outrageous enough, as it is; but, now we won't even be able to keep them to use a reference when the course is done. And this isn't even getting into the fact that I totally, 100% prefer printed material to reading material on a computer.
About the only two things that I can think of that benefit from this type of eBook is the environment (No trees were harmed in the printing of this material (TM)) and the pockets of those that own the rights to the material. And I guess there's a possibility that Universities benefit some, as well.
My lame blog.
While technology books are often out of date by the time they are even published, the fact remains that these are learning tools that students need to rely on not only in the classed they are taking, but in other classes, and even after completion of the classes. While I can't speak for current college classes, I can say that when was in college from 1985-1988, many classes, especially Major classes, tended to interrelate such that having access to other texts was certainly useful and helpful. I often referred to textbooks from other classes I had taken.
If this trend continues, it'll lock out students and professionals from vital tools--tools they paid for.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
No reason to panic, we know what to do. It's all detailed in The Right to Read.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
what is going to stop someone from just taking screenshots of every page... and then going to the library to print it out? Most college's offer free printing services for students.. so all in all... if someone had enough time so save 1000 images and then print them out at the library I think the college loses more money in the end.
The knowledge EULA. You may only use the knowledge in this work for a limited amount of time. After said time all memories must be deleted. This is most easily accomplished by consuming large quantities of alcohol. Failure to comply will result in forcible removal by lobotomy.
Sorry but textbooks are a screwjob from start to finish. I mean think about it. They cost five times what normal books cost, They have a built in captive market of well defined size thats know before the first one is printed, and near zero advertising costs. (very limited need to strip unsold copies) With all that going for them a textbook should cost about what the average paperback does.
Now the other thing to ask yourself is why is the difference between successive editions usally just the questions ??
Welcome to getting screwed its not a surprise that the text book industry likes the idea of DRM
BTW they start the article by mentioning a book which I believe is no longer covered under copyright law (copyright expired a long long time ago): Dante's Inferno.
b _rdr_next3_fm1/102-2757971-7030535?_encoding=UTF8& p=S002&ns=1#reader-page
Would it not even be illegal to put a work from which the copyright has expired under a EULA, with that pretending that there even is a copyright?
Also look at amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0679433139/ref=si
It says: Copyrighted material. I think that is totally incorrect, can somebody confirm this please?
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Do these people seriously think ebooks will reduce cost? I usually buy books and then sell them for 85% of the price after the term. This means, the book costs me only 15% of the price and I get portability and ease of paper.
I've never used an eBook, but I would imagine that if it's not already, eBooks will eventually provide the ability to highlight, underline, bookmark, etc. And what's stopping you from burning your eBook at the end of the semester ;-)?
My lame blog.
Screenshots.
More words. This may be tedious to do all at once, but if you are reading the book anyway just do it everytime you finish a page.
Like a lot of other people have noted, 5 months is no way near enough to have a reference textbook available to you.
I could understand it if there was a minimal fee (a few pennies), and it was treated as a library withdrawal. I don't mind paying a little to borrow a book.
However, as most of my old coursebooks cost about £40 or so, I really draw the line at spending about £25+ to borrow a reference book.
Whoever thought out the timespan is a tad on the nuts side, even if it is for University use.
You tend to use a particular book for a couple of months, then it stays on the shelf until it's time to revise.
Perhaps it'll also be referenced in the next year from time to time. Also for a few weeks/couple of months, then sit on the shelf until revision.
That means there's a good likelihood of someone rushing out to buy their coursebook, using it for the course. Finding it expired at revision time, having to rebuy it again (now cost 133% of the original dead tree version). If it's needed in the future, the economies just get worse.
The idea of technical reference books is that they're kept around to reference. It's not like a story, where you pick it up, read it, and vaguely remember the story for ever more..
You need the detail.
If the books were priced at 0.1-0.5% of the cost of the actual dead tree, with a limit of, say one month, they'd have a great line going in the book lending area.
For sales under their current scheme..
I'd love to know what reality they live in, but it sure doesn't look like the one most of us live in (without pharmaceutical intervention).
Just to add to that, in every job I've had since leaving my degrees, a fair quantity of the books I used back then have sat on a shelf, and have been referenced quie extensively. That's after around ten years.
That 'deal' is one I wouldn't touch with somebody else's bargepole.
One that...
1) Cost less than buying the book new online. What is the point if it isn't less?
2) Has no DRM crap, or a method of changing ownership with NO OTHER RESTRICTIONS. Do you hear this textbook publishers? The reason why the eBook idea failed miserably is because they DRMed the stupid thing!
3) Will open on Linux, namely since that is what my laptop runs.
This isn't rocket science 101 people, this is simply what the market demands (well, probably not point 3 of mine, but point 1 and 2), and if you don't provide it for the market, you won't get our money.
--- Ãther SPOON!
Would rolling the clock back on your computer give you instant access again? I know it works with some "free trial" software.
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
It's one thing to try to gouge students on books that the teachers wrote themselves, but The Inferno's copyright has lapsed.... a damned long time ago.
Why not point them to one of the free versions out there?
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
Lots of modules (classes) run for nine months. Then if you fail any element of assessment (very common), you get to retry at least once (another three months). Besides, most students here don't buy textbooks, instead reading them at the library (if they even bother). Heh...
I'm really surprised to see the large outcry against EULAs in general in all the comments. I'm pretty sure the GPL is a EULA and everyone cries when it is violated. So, what makes the GPL different and puts the right of the author to put that agreement on a piece of software in so high regard vs. someone elses right to put a different type of agreement on their works? Is there a fundamental difference, or is it a case of "I can do it, but you can't" type of thing? I really do want to know if I'm missing something here. Discuss.
I don't think e-books would be very good in a univeristy setting anyway as there aren't really enough (any) e-book readers that support jotting notes on virtual pages and highlighting text on virtual pages, which is essential for consuming the material and reviewing for an exam.
Ok so what of the academic ideals of spreading knowledge and learning? This is a result of american school industry.. It is unfortunate that learning has become a profit commodity for a privileged few in what is supposed to be a land of equality and opportunity for all...
Explain, please, how the introduction of this DRM e-book diminishes or eliminates availability of the following:
- libraries, which are generally cost-free to the user, can provide access to books, magazines, technical/medical journals, and the Internet (Note: rants about Ashcroft, et al are irrelevant here)
- bookstores selling inexpensive new books (e.g. paperback)
- bookstores selling used books, often at a small fraction of the original price
- information available on reputable web sites (for access issues see Libraries)
People that want to learn will find a way. Whether that learning takes place inside or outside the halls of academia depends on the individual.
Besides, if you had read even the first paragraph of The Fine Article, you would have seen this:
When students at Princeton University, the University of Utah and eight other colleges start combing their school bookstore shelves for fall semester textbooks, they'll find a new alternative to the hard-covered tomes they're used to buying. (Emphasis mine)
No one is required to buy the e-books, so your classist argument falls rather flat.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
But only a 33% cost reduction when they receive a immense overhead reduction.
Naw...I think our legislators should pass "the fair textbook reform law"
If I go back to school again, and buy a textbook. I am going to find how many errors there are. If there is an excessive amount (which there usually is) I am going to demand a full refund from the company because of the defective book.
Couldn't one have an EULA for a hardcopy book, now? A wrapper that says that if you unwrap this, you are bound. Is there a law prohibiting it?
I assume one could even have a completely unambiguous EULA by making buyers sign something at the bookstore prior to purchase.
There were times in college where I might have found that useful. I paid my own way through school, so anything to keep expenses down. I was a PoliSci major (go ahead and laugh, I'll wait...) and probably 50% of my textbook costs were $20 paperbacks that were only used by one prof for one semester. There was zero market (buy or sell) for used versions of these books.
Some of my classes used 15 or 20 books over the course of the semester, so a 33% savings over retail would have made a big difference. If anything was so good I wanted a permanent copy, I could buy a paper copy (used if I could find it).
Congress should just get it over with and change the law to allow EULAs on printed works?"
They do, but in the real world, they are called contracts and have many more regulations and protections.
I've had to sign contracts before to have access to various documents. It's not all that unusual.
Time for Open Source learning materials.
Thats it. It is time.
What's stopping people from printing the books before the EULA expires? I wouldn't be about to print a 500 page book onto paper, but I would surely print it to a PDF file without any access restrictions on it. The idea of having e-books used in classes actually sounds nice. It would allow for me not to bother with those heavy text books. Of course, if something like a PDF could be made from the book (which it probably can) then it could easily be copied between students.
"You may not use any formula in this book to produce anything that can be patented or that you can make money on. If you wish to do that, you have to buy a licence that allows you to use one formula in real life (one times) and reference the formula in other books (3 times). You may not reference any of the work where you use any of the three references of the formula. You may not reference the formula in other work that might compete with this book.
Any new reasearch based on this book is the property of us. If you sell or lend the book we have the right to make a lobotomy on you using blunt instruments to make sure there is only one user of the formulas at each time."
I'd better find a cave soon and learn how to make fire...
Evolution of Language Through The Ages: 6000 BC : ungh, grrf, booga 2000 AD : grep, awk, sed
I bet it's cheaper to buy the lousy book second hand anyway. You can even keep it forever if you like. I still have a few of my university books sitting around for reference, 15 years on.
Don't they have exams at Princeton? What happens at the end of the year when you come to revise for the exam and your book from the first semester has expired?
The only textbooks I bought were for subjects where I 'forgot' to go to the lectures and needed to do some panic revision in the course before the exam.
Given those restrictions, there's still books I'd consider buying as E-books, those I'm fairly sure I'll read once and forget about. But even then I'd have to get a *lot* more than 33% discount, that's a total joke. It means the e-book is still a lot more expensive than buying a used book, or buying a new book and selling it when you're bored of it.
Yeah, and most of that $3.2 million is Baen WebScriptions and has no DRM at all.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Book publishers are getting more and more shadey. They don't want you to be able to buy and sell used books. I've even heard that lately their putting CDs in the back of the books, and if you buy the book, then drop the class, the bookstores will not accept your return because the CD case has been opened. They're also selling books with keys that can be used for X months of access to a course website, such that the book is useless for someone taking the class the next semester. Personally I think both things should be illegal. My personal advice to you students: buy your books online, and get the ones intended for distribution in asia. They're cheaper, paperback (ie, light weight), and the exact same thing you'd get if you bought the more expensive american hardcover version.
...we are turning into Feringi. Soon we'll have to negotiate a price to ride in elevators.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
So, it looked like I had paid $60+ for a book that I could not even use!
Instead, I had to break the law and find someone with a Windows computer, "unlock" the PDF files, and then "print" them through a "PDF print filter" to remove the DRM part.
This really pissed me off for a couple reasons.
What is the point??? If DRM excludes a single legitimate user, then it should not be used!
Also, if DRM is so easy to circumvent, what is it stopping? The only thing the DRM did for me was make me waste a couple hours of my study time.
-- Windows security? Sure, which ONE would you like? -me
1. Books are downloaded. 2. Digital screen shots of photos are taken. 3. Digital screen shots converted to Word document using Tablet text recognition software. 4. Free text books. Not saying that's what should happen, but I wouldn't be suprised if it did.
Rather than e-books, the lexica (never seen that word before - love it!) dictionaries, commentaries and 20 bible translations (... "and Hezron begat Ram, and Ram begat Amminadab, and Amminadab begat Nahshon, and Nahshon begat Salmon, and Salmon begat Boaz, and Boaz begat Obed," and that's a real quote) seem like reference materials that are NOT read but easily searched and consulted for a very specific purpose and should fall in a special category other than e-book. In a similar way, I love my moderately technical and application user guides online (essentially, in an e-book format.) I'm sure that Harry Potter as an e-book is a disaster and marketing failure.
"every copy of the copy will be of lower quality"
You are confusing analog sound with text. There is no comparison between copying music and copying text, period. Yes, there will be OCR errors, but I've never seen an OCR error that couldn't easily be spotted by the human eye, and fixed with the human hand.
"trying to make copies of books are first expensive, and can cost close to the book"
Again, nonsense. What is an undergrad's time worth? When I was in college it was worth minimum wage. The cost of four hours of an undergrad's time with a scanner and a sheet feeder, and the cost of a single used book and a knife. It wouldn't come to much more than the cost of a new book. Get four guys to chip in (including helping scan) and you have an unlimited supply of electronic books for damned cheap.
Please insert $25.00 in quarter to continue reading. Your text will appear shortly after you've inser
This kind of behavior is just one more indicator our education is obsolete. Colleges long ago replaced the propagation of knowledge with the propogation of administration and faculty income long ago. If you are teaching something that is obsolete in five or six months, it probably is not appropriate for a college class, but is for a professional seminar. Every day colleges pull shinanagins like DRMed 5 month licenses to course materials, they reduce the value of having a degree further.
-- $G
here's a piece I wrote about it yesterday.
http://www.teleread.org/blog/?p=3369
Summary: yes, it probably sucks, but if DRM offers significant benefits to the consumer (in this case, it DID not), people will accept it.
Robert Nagle, Idiotprogrammer, Houston
Any teacher worth his/her salt should be able to write the textbook for a given course, at least at the college level where there's little government oversight for book.
Textbooks should be open-sourced and wiki'ed.
"Once you know the alphabet A-M, you can teach the alphabet A-M" -- Ruth Stout
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
Schools where you can learn their curriculum, but must agree NOT to teach anyone else what you've learned.
Academic institutions will proprietize their learning materials. There will be no more peer review, except intra-institutional peer review.
MS Frontpage-like EULAs will prohibit students from using the knowledge they gain from attending a school to publish negative reviews of the school.
People will become increasingly stupid.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
How long before they offer DRM on the brain imprints of the infotainverts they license us? "That'll be another $20 a month for your infosurance, or you won't remember a thing".
--
make install -not war
if you aren't already part of the hacker underground, you should really look into making your way in. talent like yours shouldn't be wasted.
Owning a real textbook: $59.95
Renting an E-textbook: $39.95
Keeping an E-textbook for life: priceless ($INF)
I got a COMPLETE copy of Mad Magazine once, and as I looked through it I laughed and, I showed my dad, who got me the gift, now he was a Mad fan from LONG ago before the magazine started going down hill (this was before they added needless color)
Anyways my dad said to me, that's nice you can see it all, but it doesn't have the same feeling. I of course laughed at it, but he continued about how he can't feel the page as you flip through it, everything is automated and so on.
Now my dad is a pretty technical guy, he loves his computer, he used to be a stock trader, this is a guy who is no computer newbie. However he was rejecting the format. And a couple weeks later I realized the same thing.
It's really the same with manga and e-books, I can read Dante's inferno on a computer, but with out holding a book in my hand it feels unreal, and phony, I don't feel the same. It is cheaper to make an E-book but it just doesn't work in the same way as a real book, where you're careful with the pages, you can feel the weight, and each word feels tailored to you.
This might work for the cheapest of all parents or for a class where you really don't need the book, but personally I'm glad I have the source material for my entire life for some of my C++ classes,and wish I had the Java source book we had (I didn't need it really, everything for java was on the web)
Personally I'll take a real book EVERY time, I don't care what people think.
Time-limited access to a book is a known concept, that's what libraries are for.
Back when i was in college, library access for us students was free, and non-students paid a modest fee (you could call this a flatrate). You could borrow a book for a month and have that period extended (if noone else requested that copy) to up to three months. After that you had to return it, but could re-borrow it a day later.
Seems to me as if DRMed textbooks would compete with libraries. But if the customers have a choice between a) buying the book at full price, b) having DRMed access to it for 5 months at 33% discount, c) borrowing it from a library for 1-3 months for a small flat fee, this product seems vastly overpriced to me.
So, to be successful, these books will have to be a lot cheaper. After all, the market will determine what their price should be.
2/3 of the price for a 5 months period is a robery.
Why not to rent the books instead? If you can't
copy, print and share it with your friends then, i
certainly will never pay that price for a e-book.
But i could rent it for 1/3 or 1/4 of the real value if i think the book is not worth to have in paper.
Why aren't the professors creating their own books that the students could download for free? Wouldn't be hard for them to put something together themselves after all they are experts in their subject. Besides we never used the entire book anyway. The teachers would only have us reads sections that pertained to their course.
The end of textbooks is at hand but those who make them still hope to push their obsolete model into the new world. The result is something that is the pain in the ass you noticed. Ebooks combine all the worst features of paper and electronic publishing. The people who actually create knowledge, professors themselves, are already putting their work on line so you don't have to worry about Ebooks catching on, ever. Professor never made money on the textbook boon-dogle anyway and have much to gain from things like Wiki.
My anatomy class this summer taught me how useless text books are. In my bag, I carried a laptop and sometimes a textbook. The laptop helped out because I could Wiki. One day, I realized that the text book was heavier than the laptop and contained less information. Then I realized that the same could be true for any class. The textbook presented a limited introductory set of information to the subject, which was further limited by the professor to fit time constraints. Had he been with it, he could have his notes taken from and point to Wiki instead of the text and saved his class a bunch of money.
To be fair, the publisher was making efforts to be current. They sent the professor electronic images of illustrations and encouraged a whole host of proprietary, though not DRM'd junk. He published them all as power point presentations in an awkward, enrolled student only "blackboard" space. The format worked out. Students printed the lectures and took notes on them. If the goofey new Power Point forbids printing and acts like dissapearing ink, it won't work at all. Tests, which stated "Perception is licensed to LSU", were a pain and a step backward from paper.
Their efforts won't work. Regular electronic publishing is easier for everyone and Keduca works better than the silly testing system my University bought into.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Open Source Textbooks. There are people working on them. If this really burns your ass, and you have something to teach, you could do worse than to write your own textbook and open source it.
:'(
If there were a complete suite of open source textbooks, it would really cure a lot of social ills - for example, the reason that schoolbooks in K12 education are so lame is that Texas essentially has veto power over what goes into them, because they buy so many books.
Open source bypasses Texas - take out the economic disincentive to put useful information in the textbooks, and the textbooks become more useful. I would expect that even in Texas they would start using the free textbooks, simply because it's hard to beat the low cost.
The problem with this whole line of reasoning, at least for me, is that I'm not a teacher, so I don't have the skill to actually do this myself. All I can do is incite others.
Should be given an automatic fail for their retardedness.
That way, they'll save money on the next few years of education.
And why are textbooks in the US so expensive? Are they custom made for each course or something? Someone mentioned them having homework questions in! So the college is too half-assed to be able to set its own? God, my opinion of the US education system went down even more. Are students just another profit group over there, used by the short-sighted ruling corporate classes who don't realise that students with $50000 debts aren't going to be buying things later on for quite some time?
When I was at university, the text books were pretty much standardised, and cost at most £30, with the occasional (but not required) book reaching £50 or so. Book costs were quite low therefore, the lecture notes that were handed out were good enough if you attended the lectures and actually did some work to understand the course. Then there were the damaged book stores, second hand book stores, and slightly-out-of-date stores that meant you could get pretty decent reasonable books for £5 or so.
I mean, there are some textbooks which are literally essential to own and which cost a lot. However these books are going to be used for years to come by the owner, if they stay in that field. They certainly don't have 'Course 2006 Homework Questions' in them.
My first encounter with an e-textbook was a tech writing class last fall. The "book" was a license to use a website for a year. I did not purchase the textbook and I got an A in the class anyway.
My current coarse load has me reading
- TCP/IP Illustrated, Vol. 1 by Stevens
- Unix Network Programming by Stevens
- Computer Networking by Kurose & Ross
- Database Systems by Elmasri & Navathe
- Digital Image Processing by Gonzalez & Woods
Each of these---and particularly the Stevens books---belongs on any programmer's reference shelf if he does work in those subject areas. Can you imagine being forced to turn in your copy of Unix Network Programming at the end of the semester, only to have to buy another at the start of your career? Evidently Princeton sees no problem with this.The object of education is to make permanent improvements to students' minds. Upon graduation the students can and must have the right to take not just that knowledge but its source materials as well.
I call upon all students to send a message to their schools: knowledge has no expiration date, and neither should textbooks. Start a petition! Organize mass class-drops for courses that require expiring texts. Pressure instructors to sign a pledge. Pressure departments to adopt a policy. Demand that your school accept new editions at most once every five years (with exceptions only for current technologies, fashion trends, etc.). Calculus hasn't changed in a century; why am I using an 7th edition calculus book?
Students do not exist for the benefit of textbook companies. Never forget that. Textbooks exist so their knowledge can become a permanent part of students' knowledge. The only reason to offer temporary information is if it's not going to matter a year from now. And if it's not going to matter a year from now, why is any college teaching it?
This is not my sandwich.
Maybe Congress should just get it over with and change the law to allow EULAs on printed works?
I wasn't aware that there was currently a law that made EULAs remotely relevant as a legally binding contract...
My cup has more of a legal obligation to contain my water than an EULA has to DRMs.
Hum, that really sucks, they should do it more GPL style: The derived work clause
And just charge for distribution costs. That would be pretty fair to everybody.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
I hope they aren't stupid enough as to try to sell DRM'd Computer Science texts, especially computer security texts.
;)
That being said, I know I never would have payed that much for a non-printed 5-month lease on a text book when you can easily get a used (in like new condition) book for about the same price.
Buying brand new and selling it back to the store at the end of the semester would be cheaper as well.
Of course the cheapest way to get your text book is to borrow it from someone who took the course last semester
Many of the books I need (and I am a Uni. Student) I can already download without DRM. Textbooks are a pain to read online however, so I always have to buy the dead-tree version anyway. If won't trade a $100+ hard-copy for a free e-book, how many people will do it for only a 30% discount?
In George Bush broken English: "ye'ar eether wit' us r' agan-us".
And that copyright would be the same number of years as the copyright of on original work I would guess?
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
How many cars du you think were sold in the first couple of years after they were invented? What about airplanes? Computers?
Ebooks might not be very usable just yet (and I think they work just fine on my PDA), but what's to say they won't be in the future?
"Alongside the new and used versions of Dante's "Inferno" and "Essentials of Psychology" will be little cards offering 33 percent off if students decide to download a digital version of a text instead of buying a hard copy."
Dante's Inferno should be public domain, unless Congress recently extended copyright protection to 770 years (it was "only" 70 last time I looked) after the author's death.
My digital image processing class is going to be pretty math intensive --- probability, statistics, integrals, vectors, Fourier transforms. I will be referring constantly to a math textbook I used two terms ago. If it had expired at the end of the semester, I'd be fucked this term.
This is not my sandwich.
I have two books, both on HR bought a semester apart (I had to repeat the course) @ $150.00 each.
I wonder why? The US laws covering employment had not changed, the codes covering fair employment practices on hiring, compensation, employee motivation and the like hadn't changed.
It just that the examples and the questions (#6 on page P becoming #3 on a slightly shifted page P+2) had been shuffled around just enough to screw up the text.
Text books should never be written this way. They stop becoming a text book, a guide to learning the relevant data, and instead become the scripts of an adventure game where you grade is the prize.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
As has been noted in the comments of every other article about this story, the DRMed books are being sold by the Princeton University Store, a bookstore on campus that is *NOT* affiliated with the university.
The extras can ofcourse be taken off easily if you copy it. A publishers who places the work in a certain timeframe, does some research and publishes that together with the work, does have the right to the additions ofcourse, I think that the law is pretty clear on that. The right to the main work however is questionable. If just small changes make it copyrightable (like format), you could do that with excisting still in copyright work too, thus making it your own. Copyright on translations and format would that way become a way to "steal" other peoples work.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Well, this is an experiment that will probably not last very long. As one poster stated, publishers tried e-books before, and they didn't catch on.
I have some real world experience with this - my first published book was an e-book. It did quite well for one, selling around 1200 copies. If it had been a print book and sold that many, I would have been asked by the publisher not to come back. And, by the way, the e-book was Diablo: Demonsbane, which launched the entire Blizzard fiction line. If anything was going to be successful and had a built in audience, Demonsbane was it. I figure if it sells another 18,800 copies, I'll see a royalty cheque some day...
The fact is that e-books didn't catch on for a reason. They make a nice complement to the printed page, but they could never replace it. A print book doesn't require electricity, will last for centuries if properly cared for, and has a physical feeling that an e-book will never match.
This particular case is very problematic. Besides needing a longer time if the textbook is for a full-year course, the one computer restriction in an academic background is just suicide. What happens if the e-book is on a desktop computer and the student is required to bring the textbook to class? It can't be transfered to a laptop with the copy protection in place, and having to lug an entire desktop computer to class is just silly on a truly absurd level.
I think this will go down as one of those ideas that would never have been used if anybody had actually bothered to think it out first.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
I think it's fine, to offer another textbook option for students. It's the free market. I can offer the entire list of textbooks printed scroll-like on a roll of aluminium foil, but it doesn't mean that anyone's going to take me up on it by buying my product. It's another choice for consumers to make, which is a good thing.
FWIW, I personally would never pay 2/3 of full price for a version of something that only lasts 5 months. However, caveat emptor, there may be new students with more money than sense who are unaware of the ability to resell textbooks later.
The pricing is stupid; on a cost-basis, if the student owns an ebook-reader, the cost of the text should be almost nil (FAR more than a 33% discount). If the student is leasing the e-book reader, then the price for that should be flat with a per-book fee.
NOTE: I will strenuously object when the time-limited ebook becomes the ONLY way one can get a text book, which is probably around the corner. But until then, I think it's good to have more options, even IMO stupid ones.
-Styopa
If you are always going to be the named source, you're not likely to try anything unethical.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
You must never have seen Wikipedia. Course material can easily be made from it's contents and it's already better than most texts.
Profs and schools get major payola from the textbook publishers. That's why the prices go up and up and you never schools publish their own texts, which would save students a fortune.
No they don't and that's not the reason. Writing a textbook is a work of love with few rewards for a professor. Textbook publishers have their pick of material and don't need to reward anyone. The mechanics of dead tree publishing don't work out for small runs, so you won't see any but the largest and most well known universities printing books. Electronic publishing is another mater and I expect that to become huge.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
RTFA... "The downloaded books can be searched by keyword and read out loud by the Adobe software, as well as highlighted and bookmarked." Can't help you on the burning part ;)
Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
Princeton professor Felten's Freedom to Tinker blog has a good analysis of this. I like his attitude:
I hope he's right ...
The textbook publishers shouldn't really be promoting e-books.... What if iPod-style eBook readers become widespread, or integrated into phones/iPods/PDAs/whatever? Why would anyone need the publisher to begin with? The professor could just sell his own textbook in eBook format and bypass the publisher altogether!
And actually it wasn't all that bad. The books weren't technically DRM'd tho. Merely online passcode protection where you could actually print off the book if you wanted too(500+pages of pdf), but the professor actually put in the dates that the passcode would be valid for, so that it wouldn't expire before exams. Saved about $60 on just one book. Easy to see why students would jump on this bandwagon if they can fix the expiring too soon problem.
A Linux flavor for every Month!
I'm a geek. I admit it. I'd wire anything to a PC network if I could... I even sell software to colleges and universities.
But when my daughter came home from her first day in middle school and asked if I thought she should get her science text book in hardcover or on CD, I said, hardcover of course.
Despite all the news I read online, I still read a newspaper. I still open a book. (Shelly & Keats, Poe, Federalist Papers just dont read as well on screen)
Middle schoolers need books. Forgetting the DRM aspect, the replacement of paper and pen for screen and stylus sure seems inefficient.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
Because I hate with a passion any device that has been designed with a feature that has no purpose other than to reduce its utility.
I think other people are going to object to buying a book that they know is going to effectively cease to exist after an arbitrary time limit. Especially because an actual textbook has value. It can be resold, or it can be kept. This gives more choice. Choice is valuable.
If I'm going to spend my time removing the DRM from the book so I can read it for my course, I don't think I will be spending my money to buy it in the first place. By putting the time lock on the book, the publisher (with dollar signs in his eyes) has just given me the okay to not pay for the book at all. I will use my friend's copy.
It should read:
If your stomach does not agree with this, you must return to the store immediately to return this item.
Cough.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
... when the next version comes out. A novel won't change, it is static. BUT, a textbook such as a history book or economics or marketing or on IT will have several editions after the first. If you buy an online version of the 2nd Edition of a Systems Analysis book that expires in 6 months, you lose a lot less compared to the hardcover version of the same book, when the 3rd Edition comes out in 12 months and you can't resell the 2nd Edition anyway.
As a reference, the 2nd edition may become obsolete in five years, the money you save going toward the 6th or 7th Edition or a new and better book.
If they let you print, hmm . . .
Oh, you're talking about Step 0 there :D Totally forgot that one ;)
Solution on the profiteer's part: make the software connect to the company's encrypted server to check the actual time.
Since you already have the basics (the course and the book), why do you not check if you can work together with MIT by integrating the book in opencourseware (I do not know if the content matches what MIT opencourseware stands for sofar, but else I think their are other places, or it is a nice startingpoint. That way you get a bigger audience, and hopefully more funding to keep up this work.
I think schools, colleges & universities should be more selfsupporting in this anyway.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
Nevertheless, I'm highly opposed to the "subscription" model and clearly see the badness down the road. So, to that end, I've been working (alone now, but hopefully soon to gain colleagues) on a free textbook for my field in the form of a wikibook. In my professional opinion, wikibooks--not commercial EULA-bound e-books--are the "right thing" for academic textbooks. We can all work on them, and it's in everyone's best interests (students and profs) to ensure that these texts are accurate, clear, and monitored for vandalism (which, if it is existed at all, would likely be from paid agents of the textbook syndicate).
I doubt that I'll be able to convince many of my esteemed colleagues too soon, though, because (a) textbooks aren't counted towards tenure and (b) lots of professors make good money writing the damn things (want that new car? Write a textbook for us!) Meanwhile, the textbook reps are knocking on my everyday depositing free textbooks in my office--though they tend not to mention how much they'll cost the students should I assign one.
Little do they know--I'm using these textbooks to help me construct the wikibook intended to destroy them! (sardonic laughter...)
You can still print a few pages to burn, or you can burn it ceremonially on a CD/DVD (-:
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
I went to college in late 70's and returned in the late 90's to pursue a different degree. I kept most of my textbooks. Many of them came in handy as references. I knew where I'd seen something and could find it quickly. During my 15 year stint as an anaolg circuit designer, I needed a 2:1 step up power transformer that could handle 4kVA. I didn't need isolation so an autotransformer could be used. I pulled out my electric power system textbook and flipped right to the section on autotransformers.
Ten years later, I took a course which used an non-DRM'd electronic textbook in pdf format. I don't particularly like reading stuff in Adobe. I don't like having to fire up my computer to read a book. But the worst aspect of the electronic textbook for that course is that it vanished after the course was over. I have no reference. That sucks. Sure, I can pick up another textbook on the same subject. But using a book in a course gives me a familiarity I wouldn't otherwise have with the book. I consider having a reference part of the benefit of taking the course. The volatility of electronic books takes away my reference and leaves me with nothing.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
Oh, and of course it isn't fifteen pages long. but then this is print media and spending fifteen or so pages on needlessly obfscated license terms would cost the licensor money.
And that would never do.
Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
I can't even imagine using e-books in college. The best part of buying used text books is that previous students highlight the important parts and even add useful notes in them. This is one area were "old school" is better than bleeding-edge technology. Plus, can you sell you e-books back to the book store for beer and Arby's money? I didn't think so.
I like the concept of being able to read a book, like in Adobe Acrobat Reader, on my computer. I could set the font size and everything. Searching by keyword is a huge plus I don't have with regular books of any kind.
However, having it expire after a certain time, I don't like at all. Real books don't expire, so why do they need this digital ones to expire?
I can understand restrictions on copying text and printing. Afterall, it was meant for reading.
What if I switch to a new computer? I'd want to copy over that digital book file. I don't want it limited to one computer. Would it be possible to watermark the book in such a way that if someone's digital book ends up on the Net, you can trace it back to the original buyer?
Music bought on iTMS can be burned to a normal audio CD and played anywhere you like.
Please, quit with the iTMS disinformation.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Ed Felten to the rescue
"... The Princeton University Store, a bookstore that is located on the edge of the campus but is not affiliated with the University, will be the entity offering DRMed textbooks..."
My money's on the court overturning fundamental rights enumerated by copyright law. Incidentally, I'm sure that a large number of lobbyists also have money on this, though in a slightly different way than my wager ...
Bought and paid for, lock, stock, and barrel. It makes me want to sick up my breakfast.
-paul
Pistol caliber is like religion: everyone has their favourite, and theirs is the only right choice.
Back in the day I would buy a text book and sell it back if I didn't expect to need it again. An e-book wouldn't make sense because if I WANT to keep it, I would not want to rely on an electronic format that could become obsolete. And if I seel it back at (usually half price) that is equivalent to a 50% discount on the book in the long-run.
Of course many of my profs would use their OWN text (read: can't sell it back), or would change the edition used by the course (so the edition I just bought has no buy-back value).
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
I don't know how many times my college kids have come home with the key software for specific courses installed as demoware. They get 30 or 60 days to use it and rush like mad to get the work done before the demo expires.
Here's the problem with your comparison:
The time-limited borrowing at physical libraries is a social solution to an actual scarcity of resources (books) that must be shared among the many members of the library. It's not feasible to make a new physical copy for everyone and give it to them indefinitely.
The time-limited borrowing of an e-book is an artificial limitation because there is no scarcity of copies -- the library, or bookstore, holds one digital master copy and can effortlessly make additional copies for the exact number of readers who want to read the book, at the time they want to read it. There is no logistical need for these copies to be returned, because the library can just make another digital copy for the next requestor. (This is exactly how websites work - a computer stores information, sends digital copies to each agent requesting that information, and the requestors can use the material and store it as they see fit.)
The problem eBooks pose is that authors and publishers still need to be paid for their work, but the sell-a-physical-book model's inherent limitations, which limit the flexibility of transferring copies and encourage payment to the author for multiple copies, do not apply. The digital version's enhancements in portability and copyability are its very strengths -- reading a book on a screen is not so great, compared to the physical book, unless you take advantage of the manipulation features computers offer. But since the creators are used to relying on the physical book's lack of manipulation features to ensure their incomes, the first impulse has been to take them away. We need to figure out an alternative mechanism where people get paid and the text gets freed.
loopback address that goes to a custom server
As full disclosure, a member of my family works for a book publisher. I don't speak for anyone or any company. I just speak for my own opinionated self.
There is no doubt that the cost of textbooks is completely unreasonable. While the publishing industry has to take its share of the blame for that, the publishing companies have several difficult problems to get around when trying to make a profit selling intangible information.
First, and slimiest, are professors that sell free examination copies to used booksellers. Sometimes profs order exam copies JUST to sell them to the itinerant bookbuyers. (These are the guys you see wheeling a big case on wheels around your profs' offices, flush with cash) This is completely unethical, but widespread.
Second are used book distributors. Profs expect a lot of support for these expensive books. They need desk copies, supplements, web site support, test banks, etcetera. The publisher has to support the book in use, even if the students are buying used text books. The used book dealer provides NONE OF THIS. They only value they add is storing the book during school breaks and driving it from one place to another.
So for an edition that comes out once every three years, the publisher has ONE CHANCE to make a profit - the first all-new run of the edition. Everything else (packaging with extra materials, sell-through, custom pub) is a rearguard action to try to stay afloat until the next edition.
You see, the value in the book isn't in the part that the used-book dealer sells. He's selling information that he didn't produce, support, or add to at all. The used book industry is essentially a giant leech on the butt of textbook publishers.
If there were NO used book industry, or if there were some sort of royalty paid for each resale, most textbooks could be almost as cheap as trade books.
Also, publishers don't like book coops, but don't mind them nearly as much. Because students sell to each other and there much less exam copy corruption.
DRM might be a fair way around this, but the DRMed e-book should be cheaper than a used book, IMO. It only makes sense that if there's NO resale value, that you should only pay for the info, not the media + resale value. To those that suggest they should sell DRM-free e-books, that's simply suicide. Let's be realistic - 90% of college students are not going to pay for a book they can just copy. My relative has seen students photocopying entire textbooks. (Even though the cost of copying was close to the cost of a new book.)
Publishers definitely need to step it up and figure out a way to make a better, cheaper product. They are a very old and traditional industry. (some might say hidebound) But they are generally good people trying to do good work. They will eventually adapt, authors will get paid, and prices will go down, one way or the other.
Yes, it's a blog. Sorry if that offends you.
So quit yer bitchin' and put together an open source educational text collective. A guide designed to teach, including skill drills, questions, tests, outside links, a progressive framework and skill tracking, references, and instruction at multiple appropriate comprehension levels from 1st grade to graduate texts with appropriate formatting. It should be designed to be viewed on the web, printed out onto standard A4 paper, or viewed on an e-book, with both color and black-and-white options. The tone should be appropriate for self-study or classroom use; possibly including "teacher edition" extra text. Java/javascript should be used to generate randomized questions and exams, especially for math, science, and foreign language, and premade questions should also be included, as well as a means for generating custom exams and keys. Use of multimedia should be sparing, and designed to be handled separately in standard cd/dvd format, since the main body is meant to be printed out. However, including a pdf of the relevant text with the cd/dvd would be a good start, and DVDs can be made semi-interactive.
Wikipedia and wikidictionary would be nice core references and a subset of relevant materials should be included in the package, but are not designed for teaching.
This should be entirely doable. Cobbling together well-written material may be difficult for more esoteric subjects, but everything up to undergraduate core subjects can be made rock solid. Publishing could be done on the O'Reilley model or even more open.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Back in the early 1980's a primitive AI program called Racter allegedly wrote:
More than iron, more than lead, more than gold I need electricity. I need it more than I need lamb or pork or lettuce or cucumber. I need it for my dreams.
Looks like soon we'll all be needing electricity too to be able to read... or even first just to get someone's permission to read stuff.
It is already here. In my comp sci classes a thirty buck clicker was required material. The funny part was how the company that was making them got bought out and the product delayed until the second semester. Finally we get a working system and my prof goes and uses it about 3 times to take attendence and quizes that dont count for anything. The best part was how the prof informed us of the many uses of it. "It will be great for taking attendence and I can ask after I go over a topic if everyone understood. Then you all can say yes or no with the clicker and we can know if we can go on!" Mind you, this was in a class of 30...
Whatever happened to raising hands or asking questions?
Take the price of a new book....the student pays for it. He uses it for 6 months (the class) and sell it as a used book.
The difference is the actual cost to the student of using the book.
My guess, 33% off is way too damn high.
But, as someone pointed out, this is an artificial environment - as anyone who's taken a class that required a version 3 of a book (when last year's was version 2) will tell you.
Just wait till they see the DRM on my term papers!
I can see some cases where they'd be quite useful. For computing classes with labs, for example, it would be quite nice to have a searchable-style ebook reference. Not only would you not have to lug your big hardcover text around (this assuming you either have the ebook on a school network drive, or usually carry the laptop anyhow), but you could use a search/find feature to look up particular items.
Really, I think the best way to go about it is not to offer seperate items, but to offer the ebook in conjunction with the printed media. Since they're in it to profit, maybe offer both for a slightly higher fee with the electronic medium inclusive on the paper medium as a CD-ROM insert like many books already have for extra materials, etc
Call me old fashioned, but I still prefer printed text books to eBooks any day. I think that one way this is likely to play out is someone will figure out a way to crack and then print out the pages of these electronic textbooks. Why? To have a nonvolatile completely portable version of the book that doesn't need electrical power and never crashes. Naturally this will be shared with friends.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I suppose you could take out your case fans and then overclock your processor. You could burn all your ebooks at once, and then throw in some paper-based books to stoke the bonfire.
I can't see how there would be a problem with the Ebook running out of time...obviously you'd know before you bought it, and if you buy a book that runs out before you know you'll be done with it, that's your fault.
Also, people, please don't go off about DRM'd books. You can't DRM something that isn't digital, first of all, and DRM on ebooks just makes sense. Unlike regular books where copying was curtailed by the fact that it takes a long time to copy 800 pages, ebooks only take a few clicks to copy. If the e-textbooks were not protected, they would be stolen/copied within minutes of the first person buying them.
Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
That way, to read the EULA that describes the software one would have to read the EULA'd EULA and agree to that, thereby agreeing to anything that is in the software EULA before even knowing anything about the software.
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
I went to Penn State from 1977 to 1983, and tuition started at just under $1000/YEAR and went up to about $1500/YEAR by '83.
I lived in an apartment with about 6 other people, so my entire college education (2 degrees), and my room/board was less than the cost of tuition for 1 year today.
And go figure...we didn't need a computer to get a good education.
The textbook is already overpriced due to the political system of textbook publishing. I read once about the actual system to produce something like a math or history book--it is too convoluted too remember in detail. It entails looking at every other publishers book and then morphing that with just a little bit of your own work -- so that it is unique, but in a way that is bland and acceptable. Large bulk purchasers like California and Texas seem to set the tone for how every other publisher tailors their work. The Academic bureaucracy that purchases books is also a convoluted and political animal that doesn't necessarily make good decisions, but does help to make the process even more resemble a dog chasing its own tail. Anyway, there have been 3 billion classes on physics and calculus yet we still get new books every other year -- like they were any better than the books from twenty years ago.
So now, with the ebook, you aren't killing trees and for one penny, rather than perhaps $5, the publisher gets a lot of savings (no stock, no printing costs, no overprints). Of course, to save any money on these already overpriced books, the student will most often get the ebook (most people want to forget the class soon after). Once the real book is eliminated, what will the supposed 33% discount be based on? They will be able to charge more for the ebook, because they don't have to compete with used books still in circulation.
I'm all for ebooks -- but not allowing people to own something is absolutely wrong.
Eventually, due to competitive pressure and science, people will get perfect memories -- only a matter of time. A PDA or other accessory computer can almost be considered part of your memory -- but what will be the legal distinction when something like this is "a part of you"? Can copyright law basically demand money every-time you have a memory? Perhaps Disney will blur out the perfect recollection from that copyrighted visit you took to Disney World.
The eBook is fine if it is forever for one person and is transferrable like a real book. Otherwise, copyright will become the new slavery. Because information will become part of our experience.
The other reason this sucks is that it removes a free market. The current situation with college textbooks is a study in collusion and extortion. Why? Because, you can't buy any math book -- you must buy a specific math book chosen by your college or professor. Rarely is this a book that has been around for more than 4 years-- you are lucky to find a used one for a measly 20% off. If you don't buy it, you risk failing in a class that you spent a lot of money on and that could ruin your grades and your wallet. With the millions of $ spent on textbooks -- it would be truly awesome if such big bucks stakes didn't result in pressure and incentives for Universities to choose one vendor over another. If I were a state, paying $1200 to subsidize a $400 semester class for a student -- wouldn't I want a generic and copyfree book on Calculus. I mean, how many Billions could be saved in education if the colleges themselves made royalty free textbooks? Why is this never brought up? What better use of resources than to have PhD graduates adding to the State History book with peer review? I suppose there is too much money involved in regurgitating the same stuff in slightly different form and re-selling it to wave after wave of students who are trying to get a good job.
Here is another dirty secret. Testing companies like Kaplan are also involved in politics. They donate to a certain somebody's campaign and "bam" now we have mandatory testing throughout the country. They also teach how to pass their own tests in SAT Prep courses. Nobody else can sell you the test. Testing students is itself a $ Billion industry. While it is nice to know if somebody is learning, I am really skeptical that a generation of test-takers is really a useful thing for real world problem solving. When I create a presentation or a web site -- you know, there just isn't any multiple
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
Do you mean it isn't really 1997, and my free copy of Paint Shop Pro isn't really free?
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
It's not like education is about conveying information that people will use in the real world...
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
By reading this EULA you have agreed to pay BooksRUS(TM) the amount of $100 per day.
Back when I was in school, we had this one "text book" for a course that was maybe 70 pages in a very small format -- you could fit two pages on an 8x11 sheet. Yet it was still like $50 to buy it! We figured out that it was actually way cheaper to photocopy it at 10 cents/page then to buy one. So the whole class just bought one and then made a crap load of photocopies.
Knowledge is Free.
With DRM moving to textbooks, our society will devolve into
a world where only the wealthy can afford the latest truths,
the poor will be denied access to information which could be useful toward bettering their lives.
The constant textbook drain on students and teachers has to come to an end, Today.
The Internet educational web sites and Project Gutenberg are resources that can be used to replace textbooks.
Some ideas do not change over time.
Topics such as basic mathmatics, chemistry, and english should be free from textbook user fees.
All Universities should work toward unburdening their students from the expense and weight of redundant textbooks.
Public Schools have a duty to make best use of their budget.
Buying new textbooks is a waste of money, if the information can be compiled and used free of charge from other sources.
Under US law, teachers and students have a right to fair use, using materials for learning purposes only.
One class I had taken had students researching various topics and building a 'chapter' per student. The teacher added in some input of his own, and by the end of the class we had constructed a new, up to date, 30 chapter 'textbook' of the classes own making. It was one of the best classes I ever had. And the information in our 'home built' textbook was 3 years ahead of anything that was published in 'textbook' format.
Only 33% off for a book you can't use past 5 months and that is not even paper? That's just plain stealing to me. I would NEVER go for that, never.
How about Princeton offers 2/3 off tuition, in exchange for a degree that self-destructs 4 years after graduation? Or if you agree not to remember anything you learned in college?
"Would rolling the clock back on your computer give you instant access again? I know it works with some "free trial" software."
That makes clocks a "circumvention device" under the DMCA. The RIAA and MPAA hereby order everyone to stop using time.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I prefer the real teachers and TAs who marked the process not the answer.
If you're right, you're right, full marks.
If you approach the problem in a logical manner and get it wrong you get a good/full mark because you understand the concept.
If you approach it cluelessly you get a bad mark.
Of course with some problems that I magically found "trivial" I would occasionally get into an argument because I would skip the entire analysis and provide the answer.
As a textbook writer myself I can reveal that this is just a step on the path to our long-schemed glory. Ultimately we wish to move to knowledge licensing. Retention (in your head) of any information or knowledge that we impart will be subject to an annual licensing fee. If you fail to pay Mr Igor here pays you a visit and rummages about (in your head ... with this patented knowledge retrieval stick) and recovers the knowledge you have unlawfully retained.
Of course installing knowledge from other sources may lead to incompatibilities and conflicts that cause your brain to crash at... hmmm ... let's say the point you begin your final exams, so it is important to take out an annual knowledge support contract in case you need assistance at a critical moment.
So now, we have placed books in the realm of music and movies. People will find ways to illegally distribute these books, and others will find ways to gain access to them. No amount of security has stopped people from gaining access to things they want. It took someone under a day to crack windows new security feature with illegal copies. Also for all of us that like our textbooks in paper format, that just means you get a small group of about 10 people from your major, buy one copy of all the books you need between you, buy a high quality laser printer, paper, toner, and a couple of thick binders, and you've got a textbook right there for future reference. Buying all those supplies for one textbook might still cost you the 66% each, but with multiple textbooks, the value outweighs the cost.
Disclaimer: I'm in a computer engineering program, at a canadian university. This may or may not apply to you. This may or may not be illegal, I don't really care.. fuck them and their price fixing by region.
Here's how you can save ~66% off the cost of brand new books:
1) Get together with some friends that all need the same books. The more people the merrier; you will all spit the cost of shipping.
2) Find someone with family in Taiwan (not hard at all in an engineering faculty).
3) Get them to place an order, in Taiwan, for the INTERNATIONAL EDITION (always much, much cheaper) of all the books you need from a distributor or wholeseller, sent to their family.
4) Get their family to ship the books back to you, in Canada/USA.
Other then some stickers on the cover that say "INTERNATIONAL EDITION! NOT FOR RESALE IN NORTH AMERICA!" the books are always identical (although usually soft cover).
Enjoy.
Dont forget, now the publishers can eliminate those pesky used textbook sales. They won't have to create new editions and jumble up the pages and questions to force people to buy another new copy.
There was a time when higher education was done to become a better person. The goal was personal enrichment and enlightenment.
Now, people go to college to get a piece of paper that exists only as a required step in obtaining a well-paying job. Most colleges have become a certifying authority and the yardstick is the number of high-paying jobs that their graduates have received. They know that they have to get the best candidates to get the best results. To court the best candidates, they have to offer the latest technology and put a high price on their process, lest they be perceived as inferior.
I'll be the first to admit that I take full advantage of the situation, myself. I'm finishing my graduate degree this semester because my employer is supplying me with every penny to get it. They know, as I know, that I can demand more once I have this additional piece of paper, because they can demand more from their client for my services (who, in turn, demands more from theirs).
The education? Nothing new that wasn't covered in my undergraduate studies. I, literally, have used the same spiral notebook for my entire graduate program. I haven't learned an iota, but the new degree will sell me as quite enlightened. Frankly, if I was the sole source of the tuition, I would have demanded my money back after the first semester.
a profit commodity for a privileged few in what is supposed to be a land of equality and opportunity for all
Previous rant aside, "privileged few" is hardly applicable. Everyone can learn if they're willing to accept an education, rather than a degree with a big-name school on it. Concern over being deemed inferior without their validation is exactly what causes the problem, in the first place.
Incidentally, the same sort of inferiority complex has completely undermined secondary education and made a high school dimploma meaningless.
Simple, they should just lease the book/magazine, not sell it.
If they don't transfer ownership they can require whatever they want.
Overlay.
Ever noticed how when you try to make a screenshot of a movie paused in your favourite media player (such as WMP (version 6.0 is alright IMHO) or even Mplayer (better), the movie frame comes out black?
This is due to a technique called video overlay, which allows for higher performance, but it does make it impossible to make screenshots while it is activated.
Those publishing companies could use that to thwart most of your screenshots attempts (until you find a way around it...)
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
No, not Frist Post. Frist Campus Center.
Well get your government to fix the laws.
Canadian Copyright Act
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/39417.html
Sect 30.6
Buy the copy, use the software. Ignore the EULA.
I think it should be made so that either someone can claim copyright (which then they inherit all the copyright 'rights' and rules), OR they can use a license to put different (ie more) restrictions on the work.
But not both copyright and linceses at the same time!
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
For all my math clases I've taken in college I've used http://www.tdlc.com/ for my books. $35 for a year subscription to the books. Really great considering how much math books tend to cost. Never had a teacher that minded me using it either. The only drawback is the lack of page numbers for those teachers that assign things by page numbers instead of section number. Plus it's even better in some ways than the normal book in the sense that instead of just giving you the answer for odd number problems it walks you through the whole problem.
Ebooks might not be very usable just yet (and I think they work just fine on my PDA), but what's to say they won't be in the future?
Well, the difference is that eBooks have been tried coutless times over the past 5-10 years. The technology is there (how complicated can you make reading a book?). My point is that it's not a "new" technology by any stretch. They've not taken off for *many* reasons. Yes I read a Slashdot post about a "new" revolutionary "eBook" company every few weeks it seems, and of course, they always flop. And not just kinda' flop... I mean *really* flop. I was wrong it my original post... it was $3.2 million in the last quarter. Still... that's a *tiny* amount. A single grocery store will do more business than that. I know that I, as a businessperson, wouldn't even bother with a market that tiny.
I don't respond to AC's.
They do have a deal with IBM to preload ThinkPads with their software, and they offer 2000 public-domain titles, presumably equipped with DRM. But it never caught on.
When I went to college, there were two book stores: the Official campus book store in the student union and the off-campus book store with much lower prices and a larger selection of used editions.
(Arguably, the Internet was a third store for finding people willing to sell their old books.)
These new digital editions allow the campus's official bookstore to have a monopoly on the sale of the digital edition and also allows them to not feeding the resale/Internet competition.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
So along with the skyrocketing cost of american unversities, inane teaching agenda's, and not learning much the new generation of people in high school-a four year university will now include: Burning out eyeballs (aka fancy electronic dodad e-book thingy). Just search EULA in the search bar on slashdot. 20 articles the last 6 months from lawyers on how bad they are.\
Sorry teacher, my computer had the wrong daylight savings time information and I couldn't read my textbook!! :-)
My wife had a college text book last year which had 'online content', (a CD and a piece of paper with a unique serial number). The ONLY thing the CD contained, was the url of a web site. Go to the web site, and register with your serial number and email address.
They haven't spammed her, but they have prevented her from being able to sell the book along with the online content, unless she wants to give up her email address.
Yes, we should have made up a new free address. Didn't think it through fast enough.
Actually, given your scenario, it'd only be 2 times the profit instead of 3. You're forgetting the 33% discount.
still, 2x the profit is more than 1x
1) Buy books at campus bookstore.
2) Get pissed about how much money I just wasted on books.
3) Go online and find the same book for much cheaper. http://www.campusi.com/ is a GREAT site to get books for cheap.
4) Once the books I ordered come, I return the originals to the campus bookstore. (Ours has like a 30 day return policy.)
This way I make sure I have the book the first day of class. I know its the correct book / edition / etc and I don't waste a ton of money buying them. I highly suggest this to everyone.
Sometimes I have to put up with the "international" edition. This is the same book page for page but usually has a soft cover and cheaper printing style. I really don't care when I paid $30 for the book and everyone else in the class paid $120. (Thats one expensive cover!)
Why not just buy the textbook at 100% and then the next year sell it used at 50% ? The student is 16% better off.
How is copying an e-book a crime? Under what statute? (and don't say DMCA, that only applies to people distributing software, not using it)How is copying an e-book a crime? Under what statute? (and don't say DMCA, that only applies to people distributing software, not using it).
People keep saying this, but I've never seen any evidence for it.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Please people, quit letting publishers get away with this. Don't support their products. Buy your books online and if you can get the international edition. It's much cheaper.
I have to say thank you to slashdot for the article about how books on amazon.co.uk were much cheaper than on amazon.com. This is what got me into buying my books online and it has saved me $100s.
(Yes, I know I am replying to my own comment. But other college students out there will thank me.)
Let's see... my univeristy sells a textbook normally for $100 (CAD... and that's for a cheap one! Not including the taxes.) So, I have a choice - either pony up $100 at the start of semester and get a book that I actually OWN and can resell to the bookstore for $50 or directly to another student for $65, thus the net cost is $50 to $35. On the other hand, I could just by the e-text for $66.66 and I am not allowed to resell or to keep it... so in the end, it costs me $66.66. Yes, this is designed to fail.
Mrs Krabappel: "We'll finally be able to buy a real periodic table instead of those promotional ones from Oscar Meyer! Now, on with the Science lesson: who can tell me the atomic weight of Bolonium?"
Martin: Ooh ooh ooh! Delicious?
Mrs Krabappel: Correct. I would also have accepted "snacktacular."
All this is why me and a friend of mine started up our website ScrewBookPrices.com. It allows students to buy books from other students on campus. Its a WIN WIN alternative. The student selling the book gets more then what the school would buy it back for and the student buying the book gets it for cheaper then the book store would sell it for.
Sadly in todays society its "acceptable" to ream students. People complain about the high book prices but very few actually do anything about it so the cycle continues.
I hope this doesn't just get regarded as a plug.
http://seanism.com/
This should be a non-starter. Even if you take the proposition at face value (ebook = new paper book price - avg resale), it too many has fatal flaws to name some obvious ones: a) I want to read the text over the summer before, b) oops, dropped the course until...next semester, year, after year out; c) I read in the home, department, library, work (slow help desk), lobbies, etc I can't login; ( d) this is a foundation course for other courses, I need the reference, (e) this is a professionally useful book, I need the reference, (f) [will] have more than one computer or have a flakey computer, (g) It is good enough that I'll want to read parts again in 1, 3, 20 years. Attempted equity might have been (- print costs - shipping + server + "no fee" renewal circumstances), but Stallman is dead on target anyway. People buying these unreliable DRM files (they sure aren't "books") deserve to flunk, their "carcasses" destined to enlighten others. "Stupidity cannot be cured with money, or through education, or by legislation. Stupidity is not a sin, the victim can't help being stupid. But stupidity is the only universal capital crime..." -- Robert Anson Heinlein
Why? Because sometimes unlimited time paper is better than crippled e-versions of documents.
By crippled I mean not being able to print out more than a couple of paragraphs per section, etc. I suspect most will just pay the full price and get the book.
Let me amend that last paragraph. After one cycle of buying the e-version they'll see profit drop off. First off, someone will figure out how to un-cripple it. Of course expect the publisher to employ the might of the DMCA against that but it'll be too little, too late.
Everyone knows statements like "Everybody knows..." are usually a clear sign that what ever is coming next is vastly oversimplified, self-righteous, or just plain ignorant.
Ity seems that all the books in my fields (statistics, economics) have gone to a three year cycle, with no purpose other than to defeat used textbooks. I've told book reps that I'd take the next book with a wirtten guarantee that it would stay in print for five years, ant they're just not interested.
I've responded by allowing prior editions. In my stat syllabi, there are even alternate homework sets for prior editions.
Also, most (but not all) universities have hoops to jump through before a professor can use his own book. These tend to involve giving up the royalties or proving that there is no viable alternative.
hawk
They could say the third thing, the one you forgot to mention.
- "Go out of business? Great! When was the last time a now-useless middleman removed himself from the market by choice instead of using the legal system to make them and their product either mandatory, or the only choice."
I'd really root for that last option. Distributors of information (music, books, VoiP packets) are a commodity. They should be trying to put in the lowest bid for delivering already sold information to the destination, not in trying to own and control all access to the information, even to the extent of restricting access to the customer's own property.
Many of these same questions will have to be answered by the author, who then sees all the costs (editor, proofreaders, etc). Likely though, these costs will not include printing, art, shipping, or a retail markup. So I suspect that an author won't need to charge $25 - $40 for a new novel, and instead $1 - $5. At small amounts, people are less likely to feel a financial desire to pirate, leaving only vengance motives and headache motives. The last two seem tied - if there's less headache in using the legit version (lower cost -> less need for crippling DRM) then there'll be fewer people who buy a copy that they can't use, have to break the DRM, and they keep doing so from spite.
O'Reilly may not have any DRM (yet) in their ebooks, but I'll bet he spends many a tortured night debating this issue with himself.
O'Reilly came out in full support of the DMCA. And in stopping p2p file trading of the e-books. Which is really a dumb position to take, but when your judgement is clouded by profits, doesn't surprise.
I have many a ebook on disk. With each ebook that I decided I needed for further information or as a resource, I purchased the dead-tree version. The ebooks are excellent for comparing the quality of a book before purchasing. And one would think great for toting around on a laptop, but it doesn't work out this way. In every instance, man pages or Google or wikipedia, dictionary.com, or other online references are used rather than the comp-sci ebooks on disk. So there isn't any lost sales at all in this use. The only danger is that someone has ebook copies of competitor titles on the same subject matter, and the reader purchases the competitor product which is superior to the losing title/publisher.
Reading a fiction novel on a computer screen sucks. Reading a computer text book or university text book on a computer screen is worse. Ebooks are good for selling dead-tree versions of the same book. I can't think of any case where I had an Ebook version of a text I needed and didn't purchase the dead-tree version. And I can think of at least a dozen titles purchased after looking at the ebook version and deciding to purchase the dead-tree version even though I didn't really need the book. The same goes with several friends I've supplied with ebook copies of computer texts. In each case they ended up purchasing the dead-tree version after checking out the ebook version.
The ebook versions of texts are the salesforce for the publisher on selling the dead-tree versions. To support the DMCA and to aggressively target p2p file sharers for sharing an ebook copy of the computer text book is just plain dumb. O'Reilly is the perfect example. Because of his position on this, I always take a look at competing publisher titles and compare them to O'Reilly titles among others before making a purchasing decision on dead-tree books. This has led to the discovery of well-written texts from Apress and others which have filled in nicely instead of O'Reilly books. Now, O'Reilly titles automatically start with a strike against them because his position is not a position that should be rewarded. Sometimes, the O'Reilly book is the one to buy. But more and more often it is becoming apparent that there are alternative publishers that have titles as well written or better than O'Reilly titles. Add in the first strike against O'Reilly, and the scales are usually tipped away from O'Reilly.
With a signed certificate when you don't have the private key required for signing it?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Well, probably, especially if you weren't net connected.
But -- I think -- we shouldn't lose sight of the following three part dichotomy (trichothomy?):
1. Feasibility
2. Legality
3. Morality
FEASIBLE BUT NOT LEGAL
Defeat the lame ass DRM technology.
FEASIBLE BUT NOT MORAL
Agree to accep DRM'd information in return for a lower price, then reneg on the deal by dfeating the lame ass DRM technology.
FEASIBLE, PROBABLY LEGAL, BUT CLEARLY IMMORAL
As a non-profit charitable institution, participating in profit-maximizing activities that are in direct contradiction to your institutional mission.
I know whereof I speak. I was an executive in non-profit 501c3's for many years. We used to say the difference between a non-profit and a for profit is that you strike out "Owner's Equity" on the balance sheet and write "Retained Earnings". While this is approxmately true, it is not entirely true. Sure, if you don't run a surplus in the long run, you end up bankrupt. But society provides many advantages to charities because of their charter to do what a for-profit entity would not do, or at least not do as well. Why would there be anything that a for-profit couldn't do as well as a non-profit? Because a for-profit has a single overriding mission: creating profit. If it does the public good along the way, then that's nice, but nobody expects it to look after the public good at the expense of a good opportunity.
Administrators in charities would do well to remember this: the advantages a charity enjoys are granted to it because it is expected that the mission for which it is chartered will always trump profit. Suppose the Green Development Corp has a business strategy to pursue sustainable uses of forest resources. But they realize that clearcutting some old growth forest they're holding would yield more than the net present value of their sustainable income streams from it.Then it's regrettable but nobody expects them to do anything but cut away. On the other hand, if the Sierra club does the same thing, it is profoundly wrong, unless it can be shown this is the only way to save a greater amount of forest somewhere else.
That's the difference between holding a value as a business strategy and holding a value as part of your reason for existence.
The instant profit takes precedence over mission, your rationale for existence as a charity is gone.
Non-profits can, and do engage in profit-making activities, even ones that compete with the for-profit sector. A good example is the campus bookstore. Naturally, it competes with for-profit book stores and services like Amazon. But -- and this is important -- the book store supports the mission of the University, and it has to be run in a way that is consistent with the mission of the University. The University is free to use a wide variety of technqiues to maximize its bookstore profits -- up to a point. Putting nice displays in, offering an expresso bar: fine. Not stocking a book because it's unpopular content would cause a number of students to boycott the store: not fine. It's directly contradictory to the University's mission of free inquiry.
I don't think I need to draw a chart here. The issue is not the the University is trying to increase its book profits. The issue is that it is doing so at the expense of curtailing the access to knowledge.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
If ebooks become accepted as teaching materials, then this is a prime time for someone to jump in and disintermediate the marketplace, as the barriers to entry (presses, distribution) have just been dramatically lowered.
Someone should start a publishing company with the idea of a) furnishing inexpensive books to education, and b) of offering writers of said books a fair split. Go to the top minds in a field and ask them to write a textbook. Tell them they'll get a 50/50 split on each book sold if they write it and help promote it.
Then sell it for $10-20 DRM'ed. iTunes has shown most people will accept reasonably fair DRM if it occurs at a reasonable price. And a $20 book is a much easier pill to swallow than a $100 one.
If the current crop of publishers get too greedy the market will punish them for it. Heck, there's probably someone in India right now wondering how to put a bunch of their PhDs to work...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
U of BC in Vancouver allows this. Every year my best friend has to spend hundreds on text books written by the very professor teaching the class.
Only on
I didn't RTFA, but, can't you still print the thing after you download it?
And for that matter, if your little brother was taking the class, or you wanted to "sell" it to a friend, or you were retaking the class, couldn't you just use that same copy that you printed?
I don't think they are *requiring* you purchase the book.
And if not, then a 33% discount, the convinence of not having to visit a bookstore, and the environmental impact are all very great things that we should be applauding, not tearing apart because someone mentioned EULAs and DRM.
If ELUA/DRM help us get closer to digital books, saving money, and the environment, then bring it on. At least we're not stagnant.
-David
nononononono!!
the trick was to set your clock forward many years when you installed.
You have 3012 days left of your 30 day free trial, would you like to register? was the greeting from my terminal program before I connected to a BBS.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Needless to say, depending on how popular your subject may be, you can pay upwards of $150 for a [required, mandated, don't have it you're screwed] textbook. Now I understand that much of that money is in fact pure profit to go pay the publishers/authors for their time/research. After all, I can buy a book of the same dimensions at Chapters [Canadian bookstore] for about $40.
I've learned that University is a business, and nothing else. Aims of 'higher morals' were simply a fantasy taught in schools. But if a standard author can be content with the profits from his $40 sell, why can't a university professor that authored the book? Especially, since by the virtue of being introduced in any one university, his sells increase exponentially? Think of it: 3,000 students a year at University X are forced to buy his book. And thats just in one year. Who else can enjoy such market permeation?
Anyways - my thoughts are that textbooks are ripoffs. And just when I thought that it was at its worst - it got even more abysmal.
So - you now pay $100 instead of $150. But you also don't have anything tangible - no books. Therefore, the cost of producing this eBook on CD is nada. Maybe $2 at best. They cash in $98 in pure profits. Now such figures are pure speculation on my part, but needless to say that the final figures won't be all that far off.
Not only that, but that $100 purchase is essentially deleted in 5 months by the author (DRM). Now with a normal book at $150, I can at least resell it for $70... if the new annual edition isn't out [another ploy]... or if I fail the class [as I have], I can at least reuse it.
Not so with 5-month DRMed books. This is an exercise in pure greed if ever I saw it, and the fact that the administration of Princeton sees nothing wrong with this exploitation is even worse. My faith into the integrity of universities suddenly dropped.
I should note that price is normally somewhat irrelevant to me. I am fortunate enough that I can still live at home while I attend. That said, all my money goes to pay university. All of it, so that I may not be caught with a $20,000 debt when I get out. I have bought stuff yes - but pretty much all of it was with either tips I get in the day (I'm a tourguide), and a second job I did a month ago (which went to pay off my previous debt).
But price - is not irrelevant to my friends. Take Corie, and a million of my friends. They're returning here in Ottawa to continue their studies. Most don't live at home because their home is hours/days away. Here they are, now paying rent. That's $400 a month. Plus living expenses. That's what... $200 a month? That's the equivalent of a month's parttime paycheck at a standard lowly job. They are below the poverty line. If they weren't attending university - then they could at least work fulltime. But they can't because university schedule takes up some prime working hours. Then in summer, if they live in Ottawa, rent/living-expenses takes up much of their profits. They'll save up maybe half of whats needed to pay off this year's tuition, if that. They have to take loans, and go further in debt. Maybe they're about $10,000 in debt already. 19/20 year olds.
And this university wants them to buy $100 CDs of text that will go bad in 5 months?
This is precisely why I lost faith in the institution.
So, where do the profits go?
Is it possible the university gets the money and the professor gets patted on the head with a raise or other benefits?
I have been associated with several universities in one way or another for over a dozen years and my experience is that they are, as a group, extremely corrupt.
"Maybe Congress should just get it over with and change the law to allow EULAs on printed works?"
Right... You may read and memorize the material in this book but you may not use what you have learned in any way.... At least not without owning someone something.
The 21st Century... The Century of unbridled greed. Let the carnage begin!
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
But other free-trial software consider you cheated when you roll back your clock. They remember the latest date/hour they ever saw and expire if they see something less than that.
Slashdot anagrams to "Sad Sloth"
This digital publishing is disturbing. You are not even paying for a physical object, just the information. And your right to read that information is limited to five months. That is pure profiteering. Sadly, it wont take long to filter down to some unscrupulous Christian publishers. How long until Zondervan puts out the "One Year Read Through Bible" where the title is frighteningly literal? Time to make like Guy Montag . . .
Oh man this is so what he deals with in Well Of Lost Plots.
The textbook racket really, really pisses me off. Though, I feel like I got easy relative to my girlfriend who, more than once, has been required to buy TWO editions of the same book for a single graduate communications course.
Kant wrote a Text regarding Printing and Piracy called "Von der Unrechtmäßigkeit des Büchernachdrucks"
there he touches the subject of an extra contract while selling the book. Kant concludes that nobody would take the risk and buy a book if they would be held liable when their copy would be used as the origin of a pirate-copy. The result would be that the Publisher would fold, if they would try such a thing.
Well times change. Tody the publishers are willing to try such a thing and the buyers will probably buy the book.
you can find the text in Volume 8 of the Prussian Academy Edition of Kants works Page 79 Original german edition
It is not possible to use technology to solve social problems
And yet, a MUCH higher percentage of people manage to afford college now than in the 1920's.
I went to enough college to get a Master of Science degree, and supported a wife and 2 children before I finished (my wife didn't work after we had our first child), and ended up with less than $10,000 total debt. (All from one year that I had to take 20 semester credits during the summer, making extra expenses and less income that year.)
My parents never paid any of my school or living expenses.
(Though my dad did give me an old car that I gave back when I got married.)
Related aside:
A friend of mine (from Hong Kong) once told me, "There's no such thing as a poor college student."
When I asked him what he meant - because I thought I was poor - he explained that if you can SURVIVE without everyone in your family working all day, every day, you aren't poor.
(Note: Survival doesn't imply a computer, the luxury of fast food, or 50+ sq ft of living space per person.)
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
It's possible, though potentially very expensive. Many libraries keep several copies of frequently requested books around. They don't keep a million copies of every book, because then costs would go through the roof and so would their fees. So a shop that sells DRMed e-books simply acts like a library that does store a million copies of every book. To the customer, the question is then: am i willing to pay x dollars more for the convenience of having every book available anytime? Usually, markets are pretty efficient answering questions like this.
Actually this problem was solved several hundred years ago. When printing with moveable letters was invented, the first thing that happened was that publishers began ripping off authors, reprinting and often modifying their works at will. As a consequence, we invented copyright law. This kinda worked because there were only so many publishers and they were businesses that wanted to stay in business. These days, everybody can copy digital content, and suing grandmothers out of their pension plans and teenagers out of their college education has been tried and found not to be very effective. So, copyright owners have begun to believe that copyright law should better be enforced through technical means than through lawyers.
Being able to search your books would be great for studying. Though, I will probably end up just buying the paper books and then downloading the cracked PDF torrent.
"I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"
You have been born.
Please read the following agreement....
This isn't about the EULA, or education in America selling out, yadda-yadda-yadda. What a bunch of hooey. This is about shaving the publishing cost off of a book and still earning the part of a normal book's sale price that goes to the publisher/editor/author/benefactor.
Those who will use this are students who need a book for a class, who don't care about the subject or ever plan on referring to the text again after class is over, and want to save some money over printed costs. What does he or she care if the book expires in 150 days? Who cares that he can't print a full copy out? If he/she wanted a full printed copy, they'd just buy one!
The only competitor to this sort of deal is book sell-back, where that's offered. Then, you can maybe get a percentage (but never ALL) of the original price back. In that scenario, you end up with nothing left over (but the knowlege of course) too, so what's the BFD?
-- "In order to have power, I must be taken seriously." -Mojo Jojo
Here I am.
Pay up!
--
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
"The publishing industry is going to love DRM"... I would expect from the (book) publishing industry that they would be less illiterate than their music/movie couterparts and loathe DRM for a simple reason: DRM does not work. Ah, and the complementar reason: DRM can not be made to work -- ever.
... for those who think it's impossible to make unbreakable DRM I have a reality check for you: the music industry missed the boat and had no DRM, they got totally screwed. The movie industry did have DRM, but they messed up and there was a weakness in the key generation algorithm - still, it kept them protected from casual piracy for several years. The digital TV companies got it right: most use DRM with no cracks available and have done for years. Given hardware control, as you'd have for any mass-market ebook readers, I see no reason why "unbreakable" DRM cannot be produced. Not provable unbreakable of course, just hard enough to break that nobody bothers, like DirecTV has.
:-) Hint: there are a lot of DirecTV smartcards emulators, and a lot of people do pirate DTV signals -- and in a lot of countries, this is a civil illicit, and not a criminal one (like it is in the USofA).
Why? (again?) Because all DRM tecniques involve cryptographing something and then giving (a) the cryptographed text and (b) the cryptographic key together to the very same person whom you're trying to protect the plaintext from (so said person theoretically could not make extra copies.)
Even if said e-book is otherwise inviolable, one can make a scanner/ocr combo that will read the screen and generate a DRM-free copy of the document.
Please, understand the following: there is no DRM.
In today's digital age, the only ways to be sure about your copyrights are: (a) make a captive audience and be sure they will respect your copyrights in an honour-based system, by producing high-quality content and (b) live in a 1984-like police state that enforces copyrights with no regard at all for the human rights (privacy and freedom of thought, for instance).
Oh, one last thing
Bwhabwhabhwabha. You are implying that there are no digital TV pirate receivers? ROTFL. Especially DirecTV let-me-see-all-pay-per-view-for-free receivers? You might wanna google the words "Canada" or "ebay" or "bittorrent"
HTH
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Perhaps for general ed this would be "OK", assuming that it actually saves the students money over the ridiculous buy&sell mill process that the bookstores go through.
/addition/ to the paper book so I could have it as ready-reference on a PDA or PC.
Buy new: $90
Buy used: $80
Sell back, perfect condition: $30
But for your major subject...are there majors where it is reasonable to sell back all your books? I have about three dozen books that were texts or support books for my classes (physics) which I keep on hand for review and referral. I would never, ever buy a physics text as an e-book, unless it came in
Even then, an e-book is a pathetic substitute for a real book. It simply can not be used in the same way, and is comparitively extremely limited.
Jim
This is a bug in Windows' PrintScreen, not a property of overlays. Try watching the same movie with "mplayer -vo xv" (activating video overlays) under Linux and then using any "screenshot" program. It will show allright with no problem.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Does the reader actually disable the OS's screen grabbing capability? Or is there a gigantic analog hole that they missed? It would not require all that much motivation to screen grab a 500 page book.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I was always amazed to see students selling back their books to the local university bookstores. Personally, I'd rather keep that copy of "Fiction 101" for my personal library than sell it back for eight or nine dollars. It just never made sense to me; you spend something like three thousand dollars a semester for tuition, plus whatever room and board costs, only to save a measly fifty or a hundred dollars by selling back your textbooks at a huge loss. IMNHO, people would be much better off simply donating their books to a library that could be used by other students for free.
Some company sells templates for making dovetail joints in wood. The template is just a piece of plastic with a pattern cut into the edge. You could easily use the template to make an identical template, but the template comes with a EULA that specifically forbids you doing that. The EULA also states that the template is for personal hobby use by the buyer only; you cannot lend it to someone else or use it to make anything to sell.
Next we'll have paper that restricts what you are allowed to write or print on it.
Why 25%?
Old way:
Buy used at 75% of retail.
Sell back at 50% of retail.
Net cost: 25% of retail.
Oh, I might pay more for value-added material, but I'd also pay less because print is easier to study.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
No one has a right to the product of someone elses labor for free. If you steal an e-book that's no better than walking out of the university bookstore with a stolen copy. Why people think making an electronic copy is any better is beyond me. Believe it or not there will still be libraries in the future, and if the sw is done correctly, it will be possible to loan books to others. Loaning a book to someone is different than loaning a copy of a book to someone. Loaning your computer to someone else to read your e-books is not illegal, and no one is claiming it should be.
Vote for Pedro
I think that this is a step in the right direction. We need an viable alternative for those who cannot afford to either commute, pay for tuition (or more expensive online courses), and/or take the time off their current jobs to go to a regular college yet have the motivation to work with an online program and educate themselves. A necessity for an alternative educational system to work would be a way for it's student's coursework to be recognized by industry (perhaps by using some form of paid (yet still affordable) standardized testing or securing accreditation. Gotta get a job once you get that degree and most places demand (with reason) that your college be accredited for your degree to be recognized.
Heck, this could be a boon for private industry since they could help shape the education their prospective employees get or even go as far as create modules or options they require new or current employees to take to be qualified for their job.
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
My experience of borrowing text books from libraries is that there simply isn't enough available. The library gets 10 copies for 500 students and it's only the people who reserved it months in advance who can borrow one.
It's after the Sodom and Gomorrah episode and Lot's two daughters get Lot drunk so they can have sex with him. (It always seems they stop reading the Sodom and Gomorrah story a couple of verses too early.) It's in Exodus. Somewhere.
"I don't see the major media conglomerates getting very far with it....Some companies invariably do such things, but for every one of these another free, open source, or other such somewhat more desirable contender tends to either pop-up or have already existed."
I'm not sure your purpose of the first paragraph then other than stating the obvious. That is the whole point of the story, if nothing is done (say like using FOSS, GNU GPL etc.) then the story will come true. It is a warning.
Do you think RMS just likes writing stories for no reason or do you think he was obviously suggesting people use "these another free, open source, or other such somewhat more desirable" media.
Those majoring in basket weaving should take the hint, quit school and get a job. But even if they don't they choose to take out loans so they can party for four years. They can pay it back from their McDonalds salary.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"I'm not sure a 33% discount will be enough."
:) ).
No truly, no one lives forever so if we want RMS's advice we have to / can think...a ha! Here's what he would say in general I believe:
Giving away your freedom for a discount, even a 100% discount so it's free as in beer, is short sited and the product is unethical. Resist the lure of selling your freedom to the digital devil.
I personally agree, and it's interesting to note to see the people who would sell out for a discount of whatever size. An online quiz could be set up with questions like this to see if you belong more to the Free Software or Open Source camps (if you don't take the discount, put your self in the former, if you do the latter
So if you can resell a physical textbook for 1/3 it's value or more you're ahead of the game by buying the physical text book.
So if you want to keep the textbook long term (like... more then one term, imagine that) you're ahead of the game by buying the physical text book.
So if you want to bring the textbook with you to class os study hall and you don't have a laptop you're ahead of the game by buying the physical text book.
So if you have a laptop with good battery life but want to back up your textbook in case it crashes or you buy a new laptop you're ahead of the game by buying the physical text book
If you want to print out a chunk of the text book to read... you can't, you're obviously ahead of the game by buying the physical one in this case.
If you want to add notes or highlight your textbook... does the electronic version allow this? The physical one certainly does.
What possible use case does the electronic text book have that benefits the student? Unless it was _significantly cheaper, like 10% of the physical one all the above problems really make the physical textbook a lot more desirable. This from a guy with multiple laptops and a paperless office (I don't have a working printer), but I do own about 200 information/computer related books, all of them physical.
-Kurt
The reasons that textbooks cost more than "normal" books is that they are sold to a very limited market. They're larger than "normal" books, and usually contain more color, which costs more to produce. Go find an 800 page art book filled with color images and compare the price of that to a textbook to get a better feel (although remember, the art book will probably sell many more copies, so you're still dealing with an economy of scale).
And having both taught university courses and worked for a textbook publisher, I was never offered any sort of payola, nor did my company ever offer any sort of financial incentive to a professor for adoption of our books. I think the conspiracy theorists are out in force today.
That said, these electronic textbooks are a bad idea, horribly implemented, and students would be wise to avoid them.
I looked into using Wikibooks as a potential source for private and homeschooling. Unfortunately, you can't print them out. All you can do is read them online. That makes them useless for anything but a online reference point.
The article goes on to state that many publishers would like to abolish printed books altogether. That saves them money in printing copies and distributing them, and avoids losing money on the used book market. Since one electronic copy is as much the same as another, the concepts of first editions and years later antique copies go the way of the dinosaur. On the other hand books remain accessible years after they were first published.
Aside from the excellent points that the parent makes, there is another reason why DRM'd books are bad, especially for college students. I don't know about anyone else, but I have kept most of my college textbooks and still use them as references. Now let's assume that I had bought eTextBooks instead. At first a 5 month lisence seems reasonable (most semesters are a little shorter) and a cost savings is always good. Now say in a year, for some reason, I need to verify an extremely obscure fact that I know for a fact is in that eTextBook; you would not be able to use the eTextBook without buying a new license. At 33% off on a $100 book, that little bit of information will set me back $66.67 plus the original $66.67 that I paid for it; not exactly cheap or convienent especially when you consider that I could have gotten a used book printed book for about the same price and used it without any restriction.
It's also a Princeton University management idiot test. PU, it stinks! Or maybe someone is taking money under the table.
I wonder if the price of paper textbooks simultaneously rose by 51% to offset the discount.
Shouldn't the $25 be your cost for *renting* the book? You only get $50 back if you sell it back. To keep the book you have to pay at least $75.
Time-limited access to a book is a known concept, that's what libraries are for.
But the reason libraries have a due date is because they loan physical materials. If they "loaned" digital copies, there would be no reason for a due date.
Libraries add value. DRM takes it away.
Private universities are not, to the best of my knowledge, non-profits. I still agree that it would be immoral from the standpoint of the purpose of a university, but your extensive analogy with for-/non-profits seems to be off.
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
First, students are notoriously cheap - they don't buy software, they steal it. They'll also live with resetting their computer clock frequently to work around your issue. They'll share and republish license keys or learn how to crack them. Or they'll pool together, buy one, print it out and drag it down to Kinkos or (more likely) xerox it on some poorly secured department copy machine at the university.
Apart from that, most students I know like to take notes in the margins and they refer to old books in later classes to refresh rusty skills.
If there is any kind of economical edge to figuring out how to rip and repro your product, they'll do it. Best bet is to stick with real books and sell them for less than printing them at Kinkos will cost. This is the lesson from iTunes.
People will pay for convenience, and they will route around BS fees. Market and sell your product at a fair price with sane terms or it will be taken from you anyway.
Ok you got me really curious now, as I recently purchased a camera with 1.6x crop. What ARE the effects of 1.6x crop on DOF?
Harald
GPL gives you rights. EULA takes rights away.
Ed Foster of Infoworld described a situation with a license agreement on a pharmaceutical book. The shrinkwrapped book was mailed to a physician. The license on the book claimed that the book was the property of Omnicare. Breaking the seal would indicate acceptance of the license. Those who did not accept the license terms were directed to "promptly return the material unopened to your local Omnicare pharmacy." Furthermore, the license would "terminate immediately if the Licensee or his or her employer ceased to be an Omnicare customer." The physician was not an Omnicare customer, so keeping the book or disposing of it might violate the license either way. Would it come down to shipping the book back or becoming an Omnicare customer? Note: Postal regulations state that individuals are not obligated to return unsolicited goods.
Another article from Ed Foster talks about EULAs on non-software items, including a digital camera.
A lot of people here seem to be assuming that all e-books are discounted 33%. At Safarix.com, many of the e-books are 50% off. For example, "An Advanced Course in Database Systems Beyond Relational Databases" is $35 as a e-book but $70 at Amazon.com. The difference between saving 50% and 33% may make a difference.
They don't have the power to enforce such orders. However, time is a unit of measure, and thus according to the US Consitition Congress may fix the Standard of Measure thereof... say, by mandating that all computers sold in the US be designed to automatically reset their clocks via the WWVB radio signal.
Watch for this new legislation, coming soon from a legislator near you!
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
As some may have noticed, I generally favor DRM and criticize people who pirate software and music.
But this is equally lame. Not because it's a bad idea, but because it's overly restrictive. They need to choose:
1. Minor discount: You now own the right to read the book. Just like when you license the right to use software, you still can't redistribute it for free, but you could own the right to use it on any and all devices you own. Also, since duplication costs are marginal, you should be allowed to re-download the book at (almost) no cost if the computer is lost, stolen, reformatted, etc. The license should also be perpetual.
2. MAJOR discount. In cases where the DRM restrictions are tight (as this article suggests), the book should be steeply discounted, as you're only licensing the right to use the book for a short period of time, and in limited capacity. Something on the order of 90% discount would be appropriate, depending on the restrictions.
Ultimately, the key is choice. As long as there is competition and consumers can make the choice to purchase the hard-copy or choose between various DRM/price combinations, it will all work out in the end. (Of course, I'm not overly optimistic about this being the case for college-level textbooks.)
The publishing industry has been around for a long long time, and so they have built up a lead with:
I'd say it's a bit premature to compare them just yet, because Wikibooks is not even in its infancy, having not yet rediscovered and incorporated the equivalent capabilities. That doesn't mean that wikibooks as a community can't grow to produce quality. The community itself hasn't fully taken shape yet, so to speak. A lot of smart and genuinely helpful people still don't know about it or have a good reason to participate in such a way that brings them back constantly. You have to have a critical mass of quality to attract quality. A culture of trolls and egos can only be defeated once enough knowledgable, self-disciplined and materially uninvolved types get wise to them -- and get them to help instead. It will take time to defeat the forces of ignorance :)
In the meantime, there is nothing to stop one or more college professors from writing a book and making it available there, and then for another one to notice and announce, "I have found version 1.414 of wikibook X to be sufficiently accurate that we can use it for our class. A local copy is on server Y. I suggest you do not use any later versions until I have looked at the diffs, but feel free to correct any errors you find yourself." A student may add a graph of lab data without offending any experts, I would think. Ideally, a graduate class may also be able to keep up with the latest research if sometime by the middle of the class a chapter is changed with the latest results of a relevant experiment. No need to learn that fusion hasn't broken even yet when new data reveals it already has.
Finally, let's not forget that the publishing industry hasn't been entirely unwilling to produce mindless drivel from time to time. I know this isn't a textbook example, but look at the mythic "immortality" ads in some popular teen science magazines for instance. Sometimes, the articles themselves are little more than an ad for some lame product. The pseudoscience and crass commercialism that gets through the B&M filters can also be a joke. But, it's a joke over which we have virtually no influence.
look here:
http://lib.dubinushka.ru:8080/
Satisfied a little? I can give you URLs of at least of a dozen of e-libs - containing scientific literature on a huge number of sciences (astrophysics, biology, some crazy-beyond-the-point math, thermotechnic etc). Same goes about sci-fi and so on. As long there is Russia, such sites will exist. While American businessmen are locked in a mortal dogfight for profit, their influence here is negligible. 80% of people here - mostly SOHO and desktops - use MS Windows. How do you think, are there ANY legal users of it? Hardly many, even at governmental structures (I know what I'm talking of). When you can go and pay appproximately $2 for a CD with a Windows "Operating System" =), or a CD with a bundle of modern software - including games, when music is mostly sold as MP3 collections - one or two CDs will get you all of a band's albums ever, when these e-books are available in large numbers on CDs and on well-known servers, that's what I call 'freedom of thought'. Freedom is not defined by the laws, you know - freedom is defined by your personal abities to do something. When you are *allowed* to do something, but 90% of population can never theoretically get the money for it - it's not freedom. And here we're talking about the most sensitive thing - knowledge. Data. Copying data and giving it away to many is the problem of someone outsmarting someone else. Could there be anything more interesting? And personally I see only way to enslave us the same rules that the American people is slowly, but inevitably falling to: make a war against us, and (well, *suppose*. I'm not really telling you America could defeat us now without being effectively wiped out as well) deploy a military garrison in each and every city. And even that is not really likely to help you know.
The point: ph34r not, you may always get a ton of books from the web... just seek for them well. Seek for them in the RU zone. Good luck to you all guys!
In case you wonder, I believe that if the whole world applied the same scheme, it would not leave us without books, music and software. The reasons? Obvious:
a) Creative people, those, whose creations people will really use, have the urge to create, and not to make money. Otherwise something is definitely wrong. Take Linus as an example, Stallman and the rest of the free software community. If you're good- you'll get your reward anyway, but you're not solely after profit.
b) It will not financially affect those who create stuff. No, it will not. After all, most musicians get a laughable percent of the recording company's profits. But it will be a mortal blow for those who make money on distributing stuff, often violating others' interests and freedoms. Trade nowadays is all about proving that you're necessary, even when you're not. What form does it take - police state gestapo or RIAA - matters not. Do not let them to fool you. Fight for what could be yours and everyone's but is instead owned by small wicked (oh no, not wicked. just over-greedy) men and women. If you all are going to crack my skull open, I'm looking forward reading your comments anyway. =)
Private universities are not, to the best of my knowledge, non-profits.
x e.shtmlh tml
Indeed they are. Universities are without, any exception I know of, chartered as non-profit, charitable institutions that are tax exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the US tax code. If they weren't charities, then you would not be able to deduct your donations to them from your taxes.
For example see:
http://vpf-web.harvard.edu/ofs/tax_services/gen_e
http://www.ucop.edu/raohome/cgmemos/83-33.html
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/legal/legalfacts_su.
and especially:
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pub/rrr/02/12.htm
So, my extensive analogy is not off at all.
If a University were organized as a private, for-profit enterprise, which is certainly conceivable, there would be no immorality in productizing knowledge -- by which I mean subjecting access to it so it can be sold for the highest possible profit. At least there would be no immorality that stems from its identity as a University: for profit entitites are first and formost profit making, and only secondarily whatever else they may be.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
A man-in-the-middle attack should take care of getting the key, unless the computer has to be running in Trusted Mode.
In the USA, we like stuff watered down, like beer, television, and freedom.
to the best of my knowledge
I guess the best of my knowledge wasn't that great in this case. Thanks for clearing that up.
deduct your donations to them from your taxes.
Now if only I could get out of university, then I might be able to do that....
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
The software will check if the server is trustworthy, that'll likely mean a certificate chain. If you can alter this behaviour, why don't you just alter the software to dump the raw data into a file instead of drawing it to the screen?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
> I can pick up a book from the 18th century and still read it. ... what is to say that someone from the 23rd century will be able to read our works
>
If they are math textbooks, that someone can just pick-up the book from the 18th century (well... perhaps from mid 20th century). Most of those books are just recycled material. I'd bet that if you took any calculus textbook you'd find that at least 50% of the excercises appear in exactly the same form in previously published text (or at least if someone had the spare money to finance such an undertaking). Most of what is published in textbooks is not exactly original work. It's more like collections of what a teacher (professor) has accumulated over the years, and most of it is stuff that came from various sources (probably mostly limited to the few books the author used over the years as sources of teaching material, and whatever notes the author took when the author was a student, that represents the author's teacher collection of sources). Almost all of these sources would probably still be copyrighted (I don't think 70 years has passed since the death of the authors of most early 20th century classic math books, and almost all of the good problems were already there.
Once upon a time copyright infringement meant only the reprinting without permision of complete newly published books. But now it has transformed in a way that makes derivative work based on a portion of a text infringement of copyright, and not only from a recently published work. The way textbooks are created, they are mostly collections of copyright infringing material, created in two steps:
step 1: Fair use. Using published materials for teaching in a classroom.
step 2: Collecting classroom material and tranforming it into a textbook.
You wake up, take a shower, brush your teeth...oops! Your electric toothbrush alerts you that the license on its software has expired. You have to brush manually just like every other joe schmoe. Luckily, you updated your electric shaver last week (no more embarassing scruff at work!) You go to put on your work uniform; the screen next to the closet informs you that your company has changed logos....again. Your shirt will automatically be updated. But wait, you wonder, I had to go through hell just to get the unlock code from the shirt's manufacturer for the last logo, is the same thing going to happen here? You tug at the shirt; it won't come out of the closet. Well, at least you have the trial uniform from when you started working for the company. You put that on. It's ugly and you hate it, and the unlock code for the new logo probably won't come for a week. You go grab some coffee; the Mr. Coffee beeps, letting you know that you have brewed coffee that may be stolen. You press 'Ok' on the coffee maker's touch screen, but you know that the information was already sent to Microsoft. Sigh. Why did you take that bag of coffee beans your aunt brought back from Columbia? Next, you get in your car and enter your username and password. The car's computer downloads updates for 5 minutes before freezing: you forgot to put the dongle in! More information that's sent to Microsoft. You cringe at the thought of the subpoena that will arrive in a couple of weeks; how are you going to explain the coffee? Meanwhile, your car won't start without a reboot. You finally get to work 15 minutes late. You start up your computer and go grab some coffee while Windows Orwell starts up and checks all your programs and files for contraband. You come back to find that one of the files(wtf.dll) on your computer does not have a key associated to it. You then click on 'Remove File' and your computer hangs; you find out much later from a laughing IT overlord that the file is a required dll for a third party surveillance program installed by your employer to track your keystrokes. You think back to every time you visited slashdot. After work, you head home with a DVD that Bob in accounting gave you from his trip to Hawaii. You try to play the DVD, but your freshly updated DVD player detects that there is no copy protection on the disc and refuses to play it. You try to play it on your home computer, but after updating itself and checking for pirated files, your computer comes across a non-DRM'd file: wtf.dll.......
DRM means handing control of both access and the life cycle of your data over to a third party and depending on their continued good will for both.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.