Slashdot Mirror
Austrian Town Sees the Light
pin_gween writes "The Austrian town of Rattenberg (a 10 minute walk from sunlight during the winter) plans to install a mirror on a mountain to redirect sunlight towards the town. The town was built in the winter shadow of Rat Mountain. The plan is to place heliostat mirrors to shine light in several locations around town, where villagers could 'congregate and get sunned up.' The EU is ponying up half the $2.4 million costs. The company installing the mirrors, Bartenbach Lichtlabor GmbH, is contributing $600,000, and hopes other communities will use their technology."
SIMPSONS DID IT!!
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
If there's a glitch in focusing, then the people get fried like ants?
Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
Let's see, Ratten means rats and Berg means mountain. ;-D
So we have a town here called Ratsmountain that doesn't get any sunlight during winter time and worst off all, it's Austrian
Now if that doesn't sound like a great place to spend your winter holidays...
(never mind that the kid probably would have been just as happy staring at the sun...)
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
There was this project about a decade back - to light up scandinavian countries (or is it Greenland), to bring light the same way. The environmentalists raised a stink. Googled, but could not find it; Can anyone throw light on that one?
Manojar - pronounced like Manager
Doesn't this fall into the category of "don't live there?" I'm not saying it wouldn't suck to live in an area without sunlight, but to knowingly move into said area, and then use taxpayer's money (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm assuming EU money = EU taxpayer's money) to change that... in the tone of millions... just seems stupid. It just seems that our global community should spend $ on better things than trying to cram people into every possible nook and cranny on earth!
During peacetime, it brings light to the people, but if war is declared - instant Archimedes Death Ray! :D
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Then WHooomp! no more city.
- http://www.milkme.co.uk
a) was badly positioned in the first place;
b) has existed as such for hundreds of years without blowing up, dying or otherwise falling off the edge of the planet without this winter sun;
What about EU funds for my city - it's a bit chilly in winter. Has been for the last 5000 years. Everyone there knew it was chilly in winter and it hasn't blown up or fallen off the edge of the world because of this winter chill. I think the EU should pay for some weird underground heating to recompense us for this winter horror. Oh and a massive umbrella - it tends to rain a bit here.
Other than that - 'tis a cool piece of tech.
...that the mirror companies decision to pay for some of the cost will reflect well on them over time.
Seems like the younguns catch on quick. If you don't like living there, then don't. Problem solved. Seems like they're better off than all the folks near the arctic circle, but you don't see/hear them complaining...
So once again the government/PTBs are footing the bill for people too lazy to move. *cough* New Orleans *cough* Florida *cough*
Besides, a few "lawn sized" patches of light aren't going to make the place any less bleak during the winter months...it might blind some folks looking in the wrong direction, though. Or did I miss the part where they add in some kind of diffusing lens?
The way things seem to be headed (based on TFA), just wait a few years. Give the old folks time to die off, and the younger group time to get fed up and leave. $2,400,000 saved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search =big+ass+mirror+on+mountain
A while ago there was some research into giant tinfoil equipped satellites which could redirect sunlight onto the earth during darkness. Applications included agricultural (think world's biggest hydroponic setup) and emergency situations requiring 24hr illumination.
I don't know what happened, however between this and Solar Power Satellites transmitting solar generated electricity to earth via microwave I wonder if the research has hurricane implications.
That is, if they could construct an enormous sun-reflecting hurricane death-ray which could be projected/reflected into the eyes of hurricanes, or over oceans to heat the air/water before Hurricanes can form.
Playing with weather... Won't that annoy the hippies!
Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet
the puppetiers better be prepared for massive sunburn, then.
Barrow, Alaska residents say they tend to sleep more during the long months of round-the-clock dark. The sun sets in Barrow on Friday at 1:40 p.m. and doesn't rise again until Jan. 23 at 1:01 p.m.
Diana Martin is an Inupiat Eskimo and a lifelong Barrow resident. She says it's much easier to start the day when Barrow receives round-the-clock daylight in summer.
This was on the BBC News website two weeks ago, in fairness atleast can we see the news when it happens
"WebTV: bringing the Internet into the shallow end of the gene pool since 1995" - Martin Bishop
Are the townspeople vampires?
the Austrian variety of kangaroo's live deep deep underground in dark cold caverns, they'll be alright.
Any pic of the mountain & town.?
Why does yahoo do this
I guess they can't laugh at our bridge to nowhere anymore . . .
--Greg
Who-wood half-thunk they wood suck the dark from the rat mountain in Austrailia? Plug-em in cowboy!
Last January news.telegraph had an article about this that featured kind of a map on how the mirrors will be positioned.
Youths vandalize giant mirror, killed by angry mob of suicidal depressed villiagers.
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.
Whew. For a second there I was worried that Arky was involved. I've included a link for those that have never experienced Archimedes Plutonium on Usenet. He's a true net legend/kook.
Dartmouth claims he's real (I saw the photos way back when) but, nah, I'm not buying.
Lets hope this sets a trend and somebody will poney-up to make a city-wide fog vacuum. By the end of the month the city will be fogged up with little sunlight until spring, *sniff*.
"You superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons" - The Simpsons
repeat:
slashdot is not for breaking news
that's not the purpose of this website
now go crawl back into whatever hole you came from
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I can't seem to read the site. It seems to be slashdotted.
So, does anyone have a good...umm...mirror?
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
Hope they get the right one or they'll be melting the local chocolate shop.
Task Mangler
... that the EU is helping to fund this as a way of getting the bugs out of the technology on a small scale before trying to deploy full-scale orbital mirrors (which have a lot of uses other than lighting up dark towns).
James P. Barrett
I think those are called rabbits.
Uhm, I don't think so. The places name derives from a guy named Rapoto, offspring of a noble Bavarian lineage, the "Rapotonen". The Rattenberg castle at least dates back to 10th century. More than enough time for the names to change.
I live in a country neighboring Austria. When the mirror is up I definitively will pay a visit and spend between 5 and 100 EUR in the town. Just because I and my family like trips. And, if we like it, we might return.
Why build the Eiffel tower? Why build the statue of liberty (and give the ugly thing away?) Why were the funny looking Gaudi buildings built? Why did Linus do it? This list can get pretty long but the common factor is that at the beginning nobody really knew if it really was a good idea.
The truly strange thing is that this mirror thingy is referred to as a technology. Isn't that like calling a hamburger gastronomy?
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
...will be placing a giant mirror in space... so the northern part of Sweden and Finland can get some sun in the winter... EU could even try to sell some winter-sunshine to Norway and NW Russia...
A large curved mirror at polar orbit. Think how nice it would be that sunlight of few square kilometers worth that would be otherwice wasted would be directed on a area of meter wide and few meters in length. Sure the atmostphere would widen the affected area so that people could "enjoy" a nice little hot wave ;) And as the earth revolves under it, it could be designed in a way that most people on earth could enjoy it ;) [Except in cases when the mirror is turned to other direction] The polar orbit is good for keeping it in the sun ALL the time. Another good option is Geostationary so that you can deside WHERE to aim it when it works.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
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For a sneak peek at what happens next, see the classic Thunderbirds episode "Lord Parker's 'Oliday" :)
http://www.fanderson.org.uk/epguides/tbirds2eg.htm l#Episode%20Four
You win the palindrome UID prize! Congrats! You can pick up your toyota at any dealer now. Second prize is two toyotas!
"I used to have that really cool,funny sig
It appears that the writer of the heading has goten confused, the town of Rattenberg is located in AUSTRIA which is a country in europe not australia which is in the southern hemosphere. Why would the EU be paying for a project on the other side of the world in australia? Infact the article makes no reference to australia only austria.
Is Wyle E. Coyote and a giant "Acme" mirror.
Unintended consequences ensue.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
I wish they could just take some of our sunlight here in Africa and reflect it there.It's strange how man always try to control the world instead of accepting and adapting. It's got its pros and cons. Just like doing the opposite of course. I mean, imagine channeling some water or snow to the desert areas. It might make deserts habitable and pleasant to live in , but will also destroy entire eco-systems. But this idea for a small circle of sunlight sounds very nice, but definitely not worth the cost!
"I used to have that really cool,funny sig
It was scheduled for demolition; but then it was found pretty useful as a radio relay.
I am not from USA :p
Manojar - pronounced like Manager
I respectfully beg to differ. (See the mention of 'Avacado Danger').
3,000 UKP for cutting yourself in someone else's kitchen through your own stupidity. What is the world coming to?
I'm off to put my hand in the shredder - "Noone told me of the dangers of sticking my hand in a shredder!"
We Build Beautiful Websites
and the Hood sabotaged the mirror assembly so that the suns rays would set fire to the town.
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
The kangaoroo's what?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattenberg_(Tirol)
The article says that Rattenberg is famous for its glass-processing industry.
Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.
This was on the BBC News website two weeks ago, in fairness atleast can we see the news when it happens
The BBC article you refer to deals with Italy -- and they are only dreaming about it.
Ignorance is not a crime; neither should it be a way of life
Congress control $ = inmates run the asylum
wouldn't it be more interesting to demolish part of the mountain?
Ho Ho Ho says Santa! It's cold and dark here up here at the North Pole. I demand that world governments unite to change the earth's tilt so that we can warm the place up and get some friggin sunlight all year round.
Think of my Elves and how much more productive they'd be if it were warmer!
What? That's an ord name. oi'd ov called it Chuzzwazzer Mountain.
Using the FP as plug for a picture..
There is a REALLY simple solution, and it is not rocket science. Don't live in the shadow! Cynical said, for every shadow side there is a sunny side because to cast a shadow you need something to block the sun. So, DON'T build on the shadow side!
Swiss that are from Graubuenden when buying houses the first thing they check is how the sun rises and sets! It is interesting to see how often a hill side is full of houses, and on the other side not a single house. There is a reason...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
It just needs a little focusing to make it work....
http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000933037362/
Always look on the bright side of life da da, da da, da da da da da da.. etc.
Better is the enemy of good enough. - Russian proverb.
So if a big complex of mirrors is set up, they will create a large shadow behind them. Can we assume there isn't some other town or single family home (with fewer political connections) ending up in that shadow? I can see it now as these mirror farms spring up all over the place, different settlements stealing sunlight from other settlements. Sort of like the old days of living downstream ...
The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
Maybe it is because there are no good jobs there?
e rg.htm
There is a great website about Rattenburg, it states:
"Rattenberg is a lovely village which is getting more and more popular because of its beautiful location, its charm and as an attraction to hikers and bikers."
see: http://www.itcwebdesigns.com/tour_germany/rattenb
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I heard acme is the company producing the mirror
that is Rattenburg, Germany...never mind
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
The cast of "Legend" were not available for comment.
Well, this one elf chick was, but she was babbling about human emotions and porridge.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Let me say this as nice as I can. You are an idiot. To compare a mirror being built by a large company funded by government dollars to light a town to a gift from one grateful nation to another as a symbol of freedom, peace, friendship, and love is ridiculous at best! You know you people over their that are so damn anti-American should remember that Americans are people just like you. You judge us and hate us for our government and our past, well why don't you take a look at your people's government and past? In fact, most of the stuff we get blaimed for we learned from you! There are a lot of ugly things in the world, but I dare say that the gift from the French to a most grateful nation is not one of them. If you want ugly, while on your trip, take a walk up the mountain and take a look into that mirror.
Rabbits live in burrows not caves, try kobolds.
That spending money on "constructing" something is giving a job to someone, and it's way better than giving the money to the same person that is suddently out of a job (because you didn't spent the money in the first place?)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Why not take the "10 minute walk" to where the sunlight is? They want to create "hotspots", so it's not like this project brings sunlight to poeple's homes. They still have to walk/ride/be carried to a hotspot.
Little do they know that they're in fact building a death-ray!
Skin cancer research finds a new home.
www.solardeathray.com
and send a photographer to capture the ensuing hilarity.. er, um.. I'm mean document the event.
...welcome our Sunglass Hut vending overlords.
Think about it. Barring breakage, the mirrors are sold once. Sunglasses will be sold in greater volumes, and Merry Maids who do windows/mirrors will laugh all the way to the bank. James Bond movies will film there, Dr Evil will exploit them, and The Shadow wil avoid the place altogether.
Hoo-hoo-haa-haa-haa.
Mod me insightful - I dare you!
Busy aligning my non-linear thoughts.
And here I thought the US was king of the nonsensical pork projects, what with our bridges to nowhere and such. Hell, locally there's a highway that's torn up, and rebuilt.....a several feet to the east of where it use to be, and in some cases a few feet west. Entirely pointless. Must be millions down the tube. But this one, this one beats all.
So, will they have to build mirrors for the people who will now be in the shadow of the 1st mirrors?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
blast the top off the offending mountain?
Oh well, what the hell...
though the glass would absorb the UV light and nobody would be able to tan themselves on it
60 Minutes had an article on the new Disney building that had hundreds of curved surfaces and the accidental problems it created. Nearby appartment complexes had suface temperatures of 140 degrees and up at the windows. (opps). Nearby intersections had pedestrian areas of 135 degrees. Certain streets that you drove down had half a dozen "suns" reflected blinding drivers. They "solved" they problem by sanding the mirrored surfaces so the light did not reflex.
But the young folks are moving away.
I'd guess that's been said about most small towns since, well, since there WERE small towns.
The headline could have more simply stated "EU Bureaucrats find reason to give glass firm subsidy." and be equally true.
But the real question: would this reflected sunlight kill vampires, or is this some sort of wierd EU vampire-vacation spot subsidy in disguise?
"See the sunlight! Don't get reduced to ashes!"
Inquiring minds want to know!
-Styopa
Is this the place people have been telling me to stick my head all these years? Gosh I thought they meant something else.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
your parent post, you'd see that if they resettle, you will foot the bill anyway (unemployment, housing price pressure, etc etc).
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
get some of those Prescott P4's, OC the hell out of the processor and do some folding@home.
After it is done heating the house, just use some Dryer tubing and point it at your sidewalk/drive way....it'll be clear in no time.
Get the whole town in on it and we'll find cures for stuff that doesn't even exist, yet.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Well, groundhogs, then...
try kobolds.
Or trolls.
...where they mean when they say stick this where the sun don't shine! :-)
The Italian village of Viganella plans to do the same thing
I submitted this story a few weeks ago and was rejected. I guess the slashgods of the day didn't think having giant mirrors on the side of a mountain was cool enough.
Is it really cheaper? I've seen analyses in similar situations before (like that whole Cumbre Viejos thing where people keep saying "just blast the mountain apart before it slides into the sea") and it's not always the case. Would like to see someone who knows a bit about this comment.
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
..should be Cumbre Vieja.
picpix image polls. create - share - vote. fun!
Here in switzerland they face the very same problem, i.e. the real problem - mountain villages dying out - and they combat it in almost the exact same manor, i.e. the Bund or government pays millions every year for isolated little villages in Engadin in Graubünden that otherwise would have died out already. And what about Rumantsch? The language descended from the Romans spoken only in Graubünden in Switzerland that is rapidly dying out? There are only about 50'000 speakers left despite the language being given a standardised written form and many millions in subsidies etc by the government?
Should they drop all of that as well?
Wouldn't this be _RELOCATING_ or _REDIRECTING_ the light towards the town? If i understand this correctly, wouldn't that make a huge area where the sunlight would normally hit that in now a giant shadow of the mirrors rather than the town being in the shadow of the mountain? Couldn't this have devistating effects on life in other areas?
Don't build your towns in stupid places. This was proven by New Orleans as well.
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
this once happened here...and build a contraption large enough to block out the sun and plunge the town into complete darkness.
Sig Hansen?
they already have clean streets (Austrian places I visited had remarkably clean streets), and now they want some light at winter. I say more power to them.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
It'd be kinda cool to hit one from a long way off if it was aimed at you. You'd know when you hit your target!
ok, now I'm picturing a duel between a dozen 10-square meter 1000 meter focal length concave mirrors and a mortar.
Man, you really need that seminar!
LinkTV has a 30-minute segment on this project I just watched the other night - http://www.linktv.org/programming/programDescripti on.php4?code=dwf_brilliant/ - if you have cable or satellite and are intertested in this project, catch this program.
A crusty, yeasty bun, sliced just so, spread with homemade mayo, sprinkled with freshly ground black pepper, a perfectly done, just-past-rare home-ground hand-formed patty resting atop the mayo, juices mingling to create a perfect sauce, and a thick slice of decadent blue cheese melting over the meat - Yeah, that sounds like gastronomy to me.
The hamburger, by the way, was Julie Childs favorite food. A pretty strong endorsement, IMO.
Yeah, I'm pasty, and yeah I burn easily but still...
Also, they could use polycarbonate or acrylic or whatever clear material transmits the most UV. Or simply use frontsilvered mirrors.
Man, you really need that seminar!
So, what are YOU doing for Emperor Pausebeck's day?
And Jack Thompson.
The part where "the value of the project is paid by less than one year off the taxes the people of the city already pays and normally goes to subsidize other stuff, and now will be well used to create/construct something that will most certainly generate a lot of money (tourism, replenishing the human resources of the town) that will translate into more taxes being generated in that town that would some day be used to clean French and Belgian streets that are filthy (not that I know many -- in my trips to Paris and one of my friends' trip to the Loir valley we encountered clean streets, too)".
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
C'mon, no one's suggested blowing up the mountain as an alternative yet? This is slashdot right? I'm so disillusioned... ;)
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
Darn. Judging from the headline, I thought they had switched to GNU/Linux.
Here in the capital of Norway, Oslo, all new buildings [where available] are required to use the surplus heat from powerplants (District Heating). The building I live in was constructed just a year ago and since the pipes ran down this street it was obviously going to be connected. Now my apartment is always nice and cosy throughout the long and cold Scandinavian winters. And the best part is that I don't pay anything for the heat - my electricity bills hardly register! :)
from the bottom to the top:
I wonder how much it would cost to remove the 910 meter hill, no wires or mirrors needed. Answer: far (more than 100x) more (a 910m high hill is a lot of soil/stone to be removed) than to build a simple mirror in a town renowed for its glass work.
Allowing those that earned the money to keep it would be good for the economy too Have you considered that some of the people in that town earned part of said money, too, and that the outcome of this is more money both for the town and the EU? That is the reason why countries subdisize their products -- the producer wins, the country also wins.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
than the tunnel would have been.
Hey, it's no joke. I live in North Pole, Alaska. It's dark, it's cold, and winters can really suck. But I sure as hell don't expect the govt to fork over a heating system. If I wanted to be toasty warm I'd live in Cali, but I choose the space and differences of Alaska, so I also have to take on the downfalls. Every place has its drawbacks, but that doesn't mean I should have to pay for everyone in Texas to have portable air conditioning any more than they should have to pay for sunlight for me.
Microsoft Sucks, F/OSS Rocks. I get mod points now right?
If they can't move, can they at least be somewhere where they don't have to move or risk death?
If I have to pay to have their home rebuilt, can I at least avoid having to pay for it again?
Actually, heated sidewalks can be found in Helsinki.
What's far more disturbing is the ongoing tearing up of streets all over the city to install a central cooling grid!!!
Then again, it makes sense. Ground is slowly rising in Helsinki at a 40 cm per 100 years rate (the ice age glaciers were pretty heavy) which compensates nicely for rising sea levels. The cooling thing must be for rising temperatures. ; )
J
Does this mean that another small town, on the other side of the mirror, will be cast in a giant shadow for part of the day?
Music speeds up when you yawn, but does not change pitch.
Forget the mirrors, fetch me a keg and some hookers. That'll raise morale around here!
But where will all the vampires go? Won't somebody please think of the vampires!
The ravenous rat hordes from Rat Mountain was listed as the #2 disavantage.
Whoaaa.... I read this then realized that this a completely differnt episode that I was thinking of. Ever watch the Simpsons episode where Marge has Springfield build a concert hall?? Well the building in the Simpsons is based on a real life which I assume to be the Walt Disney Concert Hall. It's claim to faim was that it was a big giant shiny mirror that heated people's apartments across the street and blinded people as they were driving. Aparently, this effect can be seen in most cities where the temperature is presumably warmer because the buildings reflect the sunlight.
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
So they're spending over $5000 per person to provide sunlight to the residents of a small town?!? Couldn't they keep every resident supplyed with full spectrum lightbulbs for the rest of their lives for far less money? Seems to me these people knew they were in the shadow of a mountain when they chose to live there in the first place...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Interesting. I hadn't heard of such a cooling "utility".
;-)
At one of the universities that I was at, there was a similar sort of central cooling system. Some decades ago, a number of departments started installing cooling equipment that dumped the heat into the water system. Eventually, this resulted in the water system being tied into the campus power/heating system, with water being cycled back to the central plant to adjust its temperature (hotter in winter, cooler in summer). Since this was done with big centralized equipment, it was more efficient than lots of separate small boxes would be. But this wasn't ever installed fully everywhere on the campus, so cooling was never as efficient as heating.
This approach is widely used in large buildings (hospitals, hotels, skyscrapers), where the water pipes are often used as heat sources and sinks as needed, and the building's power plant continuously adjusts the hot/cold temperatures as needed.
But who would have thought there would ever be a need for cooling in Helsinki?
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
... the town will probably see an endless stream of shadow puppet pranks.
And in a few years, we'll see them organizing a Shadow Puppet Festival, with thousands of tourists attending. Eventually it'll be turned into a Broadway musical and Hollywood movie.
This is in the Austrian Alps, you know.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Just to remove the hill? Drill aerodynamic bullet holes through it? Pay everyone to move?
> So, if drinking the holy blood makes you immortal...
:)
Never heard of transubstantiation?
Anyhow, Orthodox doctrine says that Mary was assumed (taken up) into Heaven, like Enoch & co. so there aren't supposed to *be* any remains (indeed, you'd be hard pressed to find any church claiming to have such a relic, and if you know much about relics, you'd know how much they'd want relics of someone like her).