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MacBook Pros Upgraded and Shipped
Moby Cock writes "Apple Insider is reporting that Apple has started shipping the new MacBook Pro with an upgrade to the CPU clock speed. The two models now sport 1.83 GHz and 2.0 GHz Core Duos (up from 1.67 GHz and 1.83 GHz). A 2.16 GHz upgrade is also available. The price point remains the same." Dear Apple: Slashdot needs to review 5 of these indefinitely. Thank you XOXO ;) Seriously, i'm waiting for someone to give good benchmarks on these- especially testing for Warcraft. Now that it has a new Universal Binary I can't wait to see how it holds up against a modern windows machine.
So that means it is 6 times faster right? RIGHT?
-- TRUST ME! I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING!
I'm still waiting for a full review / writeup of how to dual-boot these with OS X and Windows (yeah yeah, I know, Windows...) if at all possible.
It is still rev 0. Ill personally wait for Apple and Intel to get the major kinks out of their perspective products. Mabey next year. But still I am glad the CPU speed it is shipping is a little higher then advertised becaues other laptops were shipping now with the faster chip.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I was just warming up to the idea of a 1.8 this 2.16 Ghz is gonna take some getting used to. Can I handle that much speed?
Ahhh. WoW - the single most important universal binary released so far. I hope Blizzard listens to their customers and releases universal binaries of thier existing OS X compatible games (WC3, SC, Diablo2). With regards to the story, cool that Apple bumped everyone up a notch on the speed pole for free.
This guy's the limit!
"1.8ghz should be enough for anybody."
Slap one in a 17" and I'm sold. I was hoping that would be the first upgrade they made.
It's a shame they haven't been available to review yet, but to be fair, Apple aren't really missing anything. They will sell like hotcakes to start with, even if they turn out to be bricks with LEDs strapped on.
What happened to the people who preordered a 1.66GHz for the same price as the 1.83 when they hard launched? Did they get the prototype they ordered or the real deal? Note to self: never preorder new tech!
I imagine you'll be waiting quite a while. Then again, who knows. Maybe you won't...
And to be a pedantic prick, Apple is the company, not Mac OS X. The company is the one that would open the hardware and unbundle Safari (which isn't tied into the OS in nearly the same way as IE/Win).
This guy's the limit!
I assume the iMac will be getting a similar speed bump? Kinda silly have laptops available with faster procs than the desktops.
Had another quick look at my order (I'm in the UK).
MBPRO 15/1.67 CTO. Estimated shipping date: Feb 15, 2006.
Estimated delivery date: Feb 22, 2006.
Still, if it comes with a faster processor, I won't be too disappointed - but with it being leading-edge hardware, it'll probably explode in my lap and permanently neuter me...
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
OK,
It is your loss not mine.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Why unbundle Safari? Are you saying they shouldn't ship it with their machines and the OS? Uhhhhhh, why? It's not tied into the OS in any way like IE on Windows, and you're free to use Firefox, Camino, Opera or any other browser.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
That there's a TPM chip installed shipping enabled, with no end-user controls to verify the trust settings match the security context in which it's installed. Like my maxed out iMac Core Duo... Privacy Commissioner in T-10 days... still no response from Apple Privacy... Check the documentation http://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/specs/bestpra ctices/
You'll see what I mean...
Caveat Emptor.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
I'm sorry to break this to you, but Windows bundles a browser too.
The open hardware issue is a more valid point, but why not move from one bundled-browser OS to another because the new OS has a bundled browser??
Silly.
I believe Taco was referring to comparing it to a comparably equipped Windows laptop. In which case, the prices are fairly similar. I suspect performance will be pretty similar, too.
This guy's the limit!
My vendor wants $1699 for the base MacBook Pro. Doesn't seem that expensive to me.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
More hardware, more options. Especially if you talk price-matching, we know MacBooks aren't exactly cheap.
Yeah, because I have so many options for video when spec'ing out my Dell laptop.
Oh, wait, you wanted to compare a laptop to your gaming machine with it's $500 video card?
Sure. That makes sense.
Seriously, i'm waiting for someone to give good benchmarks on these- especially testing for Warcraft.
;)
So you are spending close to $2000 so you can have slightly better graphics in WarCraft?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
for the new iBooks and Minis.
:). The excuse of not being able to load XP has been pretty much solved as I can find numerous methods of doing so. I really could put to use a laptop that can boot the big 3 OSes.
When is the next big Mac get together?
While I like the specs of the new MacBooks, at their price point they don't quite cut it. Perhaps the second revision will make changes. Its just so hard to justify $600+ MacTax for 1lb of less weight and a few minor extras. Case in point CompUSA is selling an Acer duo, (1280x800 display x1400 graphics, 2GB memory, 120gb hdd, for 1299). While I understand that to some their is better engineering in the Mac I doubt the assembly lines used by either is much different). Yeah I know, its the software/experience/quality. There are levels to which all of us assign imporantance to these items. However most of it is opinion and we can all find pro and con examples to back our case. To me the justification of owning one of the new Intel based macs is being able to run any x86 OS.
If they deliver a duo-iBook, say with 13" screen and similar graphics ability I may find my next notebook. Throw out the iSight and give me a modem
iBook dream, 1599 for 1.66 duo, x1600 256mb, fw400, usb2, upto 2gb memory, 13" 1280x800, etc. I don't know Apple's screen sizing principles and heard the new Macbook deviated from established norms (is that true?)
The world of Mac is getting closer to me everyday...
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Although it's unpopular to say on here. I'm happy with my Windows machines, they're cheaper and came with just the specs I want. And all my software just works. I'm not trolling .. but quite frankly Windows XP with Service Pack 2 works fine FOR ME. I make ActiveX optional and of coure I run a firewall (just like Mac OS does by defult too)... I have never had a problem. Windows XP, for me, simply has not had a reboot worthy crash.
So my question is, why should I switch?
More hardware, more options. Especially if you talk price-matching, we know MacBooks aren't exactly cheap.
Yeah, that's why Dell is near backrupt. x86 home-made computers are definitively taking the market.
Does anyone else here get the irony of /.-ers spending virtual lifetimes bashing 'Doze, hating every byte of M$ kruftware, and yearning for an environmental catastrophe in Redmond, then getting all excited about the potential of running XP on a new MacBook?
Am I alone here when I utter a collossal WTF?
Now, I do think native speed virtualization would be a major boon for the platform. And, yes, native x86/DirectX gaming on a Mac would be nice.
However, with all of the talk about Mac performance gap, *NIX on the desktop, Win Sux, etc, one would think that the community would get very excited about fast portable, Darwin on dual-core, i.e all of the great native things already going on, and more extensible than Doze will ever be.
Yet, what we hear is crying that, unless it runs Windoze, it is useless or somehow disappointing. WTF, again I ask.
My 550 TiBook is a classic piece of machinery, like the NeXT Cube (got one), Sparc 10/20 (got two), the compact Mac (got two), and other timeless designs.
These new machines signal new life for Apple's manufacturing, and innovation for years to come, thanks to a high-speed portable line and its revenue stream. Get excited about that!
First time I see someone booting XP on a Mac, I'm gonna kick them in the nuts, Roshambo style.
Does anyone have any idea what the battery life of these things are? It was previously unannounced because they were still testing pre-shipping versions. Well, now they're shipping. And the only thing on the technical specs page is a footnote that says
Yeah, that helps.
*blinking cursor*
You could just trash Safari and install Firefox (or leave Safari there and install Firefox). It's not like the browser is integrated into the OS or anything.
I read the internet for the articles.
Just because the browser comes pre-installed doesn't mean that it's bundled quite the way IE is. You can still remove it, and install any other browser you want. Most Linux distros by default will install a browser too. Try installing KDE without Konquerer. I'm pretty sure it isn't possible.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
You included a few phrases that get the slashbots dribbling into their rank, long unwashed y-fronts, but you're karma whoring still failed...miserably!
If it was a PowerPC-based Mac with internals done by PowerPC-partner then I'd wait. Seeming this is designed by Intel with way way more in debt experience making personal computers I wouldnt worry as much. The external casing is still basically a tried & tested Apple Albook so I wouldnt worry too much.
If you're a pro user with a need for native Adobe & Macromedia apps then I'd wait for the universal binaries that are expected late this year or 2008. By that time OS X 10.5 Leopard is expected to be out.
how long before someone sues apple for false advertising.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
So, we all know that Intel releases incremental speed bumps nearly every quarter or even more frequently, and this seems to have worked well for Apple here. But what about the quarterly (or more) price drops? A series of cuts is scheduled for the Pentium D over April and Q3 2006 that will almost half some prices. Will Apple catch things into even better margins, or will we see much more quickly update specs AND prices?
Wait for VPC or VMWare. Letting Windows boot your hardware is just begging for a world of pain.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
So far Classic is a dead issue (pun intended, but unfortunate for us and Apple) and I'm sure there will be more.
To me it's just another cycle of waiting (hoping) vendors update thier products (as well as making the upgrades affordable) or manufacturers bother to re-code thier device drivers to work on yet anothewr new Apple platform.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
Yes we know that macbooks aren't exactly cheap ... and nor are gaming capable PC laptops -- they come out quite comparable pricewise. You certainly can't buy a PC laptop with all of the features of the MacBook for much less than the MacBook costs.
James P. Barrett
You do realize these laptops are 32 bit only? The 64 bit portable CPU (Merom core) will be available by year end (together with the matching desktop core - Conroe). It also seems that the current core (Yonah) has 64 bit instruction set support (AMD64/EMT64/x86-64, whatever you want to call it) although it has been disabled by Intel. The interesting bit for me will be the upcoming iBook. I want to see how Core Solo stacks up against the G4 (seeing that Duo doesn't really clean out the house against the single G5). I think there may be a couple of surprises.
They've been working on the iBrick for years. I heard it makes the satisfying Apple boot sound when you throw it through a window.
Why did this get marked troll?? What's he's saying is true .
Because he intentionally missed the point the previous poster was making. This will allow real-world benchmarking of OS+application with hardware and software that is similar enough to expose the bottlenecks.
people are just blind to reality when it come to Apple.
Yes, everyone but you is ignorant and misinformed.
Show me specs of any Mac OS X machine outperforming the top Windows game.
For some reason not many people try to benchmark a operating system plus a machine against a game. I think it is because they are not even close to being the same thing.
It's not jut performance it's low cost customiation option too that Windows leads in.
Performance varies based upon a given task, hardware, and software. The point is we can soon actually benchmark a given task with the same (or very similar) hardware, thus removing a variable. Honestly no one really knows if "Windows is faster" because until now we have not had a way to test it. Of course everyone with the ability to reason knows the result will be that Windows is better at some things and OS X is better at some things.
In my opinion, Apple's snobbish attitude to third parties and refusal to open up their BIOS has led to these problems.
Yeah, Apple really should open up OpenFirmware which is what they've been using instead of BIOS for the last decade. They are just now moving to EFI, which is another open standard. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
safari is really a front end to WebKit which is just Konqueror without all the fancy buttons. WebKit is nice as you can integrate a browser into any app with 1 line of code. So it's like IE in that it's a component (Framework), but unlike it in that it isn't part of the fundamental OS. WebKit does one thing only and it is secure.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I installed KDE without Koqueror last weekend.
You can do it with Gentoo using the KDE-Split Ebuilds. Of course since Konquerer is also a decent KDE file manager, my next step was to emerge Konqueror.
When it comes to 3D games, the OS will be backseat to the hardware.
In this laptop's case, it is an ATI X1600 family graphics processor.
That's pretty good, but it isn't a mobile variant of an nVidia 7800. Of course, these don't come in cheap laptops either.
Apart from that you will have Apple's slightly suboptimal OpenGL implementation, and possibly a layer of DirectX->OpenGL translation depending on how the game was ported.
Certainly this MacBook Pro will outperform the majority of PC laptops in games simply because the majority of PC laptops utilise integrated graphics - sometimes even at the $2000 pricepoint. However it will probably lose to any gamer or extreme performance PC laptops. Then again, they aren't $999 either.
Excuse my ignorance but if games start being produced as universal binaries does that mean that will be the end of games just being made for windows? What are the chances of this becoming the norm? Finally, something about the intel macs might actually affect me.
This is the internet age and I definitely want a browser with my OS in the same way as I wanted a text editor with my OS years ago, but that's not to suggest I want that browser to be surgically inserted into the guts of my OS.
$2B OR NOT $2B = $FF
This is actually the opposite of what happened a few years ago. When Apple came out with the G4 desktops they planned on releasing them in 400MHz, 450MHz, and 500MHz configurations. Due to supply problems or whatever, they ended up downgrading each configuration by 50MHz (so 350, 400, 450) and kept the prices. Of course there was a huge uproar and IIRC Apple ended up discounting the machines.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/10/14/apple_down grades_power_mac_cpus/
It's good to know that Apple is now in a position to do the opposite.
Developers still mostly use DirectX.
perception is reality
That's a common misconception. Sure, "Safari" can be easily removed, just like "Internet Explorer" can, but the real meat of the rendering and parsing work is done by WebKit, which is also used for Dashboard, Mail, and a number of third-party applications (notably Adium, SubEthaEdit, Colloquy, Xcode and NetNewsWire)... in this sense it's EXACTLY like Windows' MSHTML and MSXML, in that it is a required, integrated component of the operating system.
$270 under educational pricing for the upgrade from 2.0GHz and 2.16GHz, and they don't say there's any increase in FSB, either. Regular pricing is probably even higher. Not worth it!
It's not jut performance it's low cost customiation option too that Windows leads in.
Umm... You do know we are discussing LAPTOPS here, right?
If you're doing a lot of customizations to upgrade the video performance, etc., of your windows laptop, then you are far better with a soldering gun than I.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
It's not their BIOS they won't open up. It's EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface), which was made by Intel; XP just doesn't support EFI, that'll be a 'new' feature of Vista's. Apple switched to EFI with the Intel Macs. Before, Apple was using OpenFirmware.
So please, get a life, an idea of what you're talking about, and a third-grade education before you touch your keyboard again.
What's great about the MacBook again? It it not compatible with PC Cards, and there are zero available peripherals for its ExpressCard/34 slot. It has no way to read a CompactFlash card except for a USB reader. It has no modem, except for a USB modem. It has no GPRS/EDGE/EVDO/1xRTT wireless WAN card, and no slot for adding one. It has no SmartCard reader. The battery life, although unannounced, is expected to be average.
As far as I can tell, the MacBook lacks any kind of feature that sets it apart, other than running MacOS X. The Acer TravelMate, Ferrari series and the Thinkpad X series seem to be much better computers if you don't need MacOS X.
I'm planning to stay with my 6-year-old PowerBook G3 until Apple releases a computer that's somewhere near as useful.
Has anyone been able to stop by their local Apple store and see if they have display models out? I'm sure they won't have walk-in inventory for a while, until they free up their order backlog, but it would be nice to get a little hands-on time before plunking down real money.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
But my point still stands. How many parts of KDE become unusable once you remove Konquerer? The browser/ HTML rendering engine is an important part of any modern Desktop. The real question is, how deep does the browser tie into the actual OS/Kernel? If the browser is just a component that lets you render HTML/CSS/JS, then it's probably doing just what a browser is supposed to do. Certain linux packages require certain desktop libraries (KDE,Gnome) to be installed in order to function. IE is a different beast altogether because it goes much deeper than the application level, right into the OS level causing lots of security problems.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
What is the difference between a "price point" and a "price" or "cost"? Could it also say "the price point remains identically the same?
Taking a G4 Powerbook for a test drive. The sales droids there were seriously downplaying the MacBook Pro -- "No one knows when they're going to ship, it could be a month or more" and "Almost no software will run natively on them when they're first released" were the two lines I heard the most from several of the sales droids there. I'm going to have to go back when they get their first units in just to see how much the tune has changed. "These are radically faster for not much more money" and "You can run all previous software in an emulator" are the lines I expect to hear then. Sorry guys, but I'm not inclined to buy a machine from a sales droid who went out of his way to mislead me. I'll just find my machine online if I decide to buy one. Pfft.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
So with the faster chips the batteries are going to take a hit right? Apple have been very quiet about MacBook battery life and this makes me fear that should I buy one I am going to need a very long extension cord.
Quake 3 has also been release as a universal binary.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Since CmdrTahoe can not be bothered, I would like to use this chance to wish all slashdotter's a great Valentine's Day! Slack off work and go spend some quality time with your significant other or go ask someone out!!!
from http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/design.html Pretty slick.
Apparently, it's been used on countertop deep fryers for a while now (after some really horrible incidents where people pulled or tripped over cords and got hot oil spilled on them).
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
A modern Windows machine will always outperform a MacBook in games. More hardware, more options.
Hrm... But aren't they all using the same hard ware? I mean these are all laptops right? They are using Intel and then maybe ATI or nVidia? Hardware is not different.
Unless you count AMD.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Hey retard, you missed the point completely. Of course Windows bundles the browser, which is the point actually. But there are other operating systems, I'm sure you know... right?
Maybe Slashdot editors should be objective for once and STOP posting apple stories about their LACK of objectivity.
I have a feeling this has more to due with supply of chips. If you check out the Apple Store, the ship times for a 1.83GHz is 2-3 weeks, the ship times for a 2.0 GHZ machine is 1-3 days! I have a feeling they got a boatload of these 2.0 GHZ processors from Intel to meet all the back-logged demand.
I wonder if Apple is going to follow the PC universe and pump up their speeds every month like every other manufacturer out there when Intel releases a new clock speed .12Ghz faster than the previous model. What about the different processor cores. Will Apple continue with one core and ignore core revisions until a significant time later?
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
Apple's bundling of Safari is nowhere near as bad as IE.
Webkit, the underlying engine behind safari is open-source. KHTML and KJS. They've made it a framework. I feel much more comforatble with Safari than with IE.
Lastly, I can always use FireFox or Camino and they'll work great.
Your point stands, but I believe grandparent's point is actually more important. If there is a deep tie into the operating system, let it better be an Open Source operating system. BTW, which license is KHTML and how is it they get away not opening MacOS X? I'd like to know the details.
Yes, I agree that every modern OS should ship with a browser. Otherwise it is quite difficult to download Firefox.
I'd also agree that having the browser integrated into the OS == Evil.
Just because the browser comes pre-installed doesn't mean that it's bundled quite the way IE is. You can still remove it, and install any other browser you want.
Ignoring, for the moment, the architecture behind Safari I think that people get too hung up on "what" and forget the "why." There are two big problems with IE+Windows. One is that it mingles code for file browsing, web browsing, and vital parts of the OS. Basically, it mixes code very insecurely in ways that allow interaction with the internet to potentially cause serious changes to the core of the OS. It also allows local users to abuse the Web browser and gain access to escalated privileges. Basically, it is an insecure and basically unfixable architectural mistake.
The second issue is not technical. As a monopoly it is illegal for MS to leverage their OS monopoly to gain a Web browser monopoly. The most common way to do this is bundling both products together, which MS did. MS supplies multiple components of an overall computer: OS, applications, mice, etc. Because they have a monopoly on one, they cannot legally bundle the others with that one. They can bundle their mouse with every copy of Office sold, but they cannot bundle Office or the mouse with their OS.
It is important to note that this does not mean an end user can't buy a bundle that includes Windows and a computer and IE. Retailers are free to bundle anything they want, so long as they don't have monopolies. Dell can bundle all of MS's products and only sell that combination and there is no legal issue. Only MS is legally bound not to do so. They have to sell them separately to Dell so that Dell can choose the best browser to sell to their customers, even though the market forces them to sell Windows as the OS on those computers.
Apple does not have a monopoly on desktop OS's or Web browsers so they can bundle the two. If they gained a monopoly on either, they could not. The same goes for IBM, and pretty much any Linux distributor.
To summarize, the problems are the insecurity of an architecture that commingles the core of the OS with a Web browser and illegal business practices. I haven't seen either problem with any alternative OS's.
I have a high-end one (2.0 or 2.16 Ghz *and* a 7200RPM SATA drive) on the way and it should be here by the end of the month. I'm going to do a full review as soon as humanly possible, and I'll be sure to post some Ironforge framerate stats (the most important benchmark ever).
dmiessler.com -- grep understanding knowledge
Does anyone know why the MacBooks, with x1600 mobile radeons, can drive an external 30" Apple display at full res, but the iMac, with regular x1600s can't?
Also, anyone know why the 17" iMac can't have 256 MB of VRAM but the 20" can? Is the VRAM something that is potentially upgradeable, or do you have to buy it installed?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
Wow a whole slashdot article solely on Apple upgrading the CPUs to the next highest without changing the price. I know this must be a big deal for you apple users who are used to paying the extra 500 for a 80 dollar more CPU but this is ridiculous.
The human race is artificial intelligence created using object orientated programming.
Windows is like decaf - it tastes like the real thing, but it won't get you through the day.
I run max res (1600x1280, or something like that), with textures at full distance/quality, and I get minor choppiness (off and on, once things load it's smooth) in IF by the bank/AH. Gryphon filghts are amazing (not only can I see the landscape, with great clarity, I can see OTHER gryphon flights cross my path -- something I could never do before)
All this using the 20" Imac duo, with 1G memory. (The universal binary vs. Rosetta made little difference in performance). IMO, the only thing that could kill the laptop is disk latency, but with those 5400rpm SATA drives in the macbooks, I doubt it will.
One thing I have noticed with Mac WoW vs. Intel WoW -- zooming out (like, with the scroll wheel) goes maybe 15 yards back in the Mac version and double that in the intel version. (e.g.: on the IF bridge in front of the AH, I can stand in the center and zoom out, straight up, and my visibility is almost exactly the length of the bridge -- on my intel box, the visibility is double that (I can see quite a ways of of the bridge)). Sadly, Blizzard has not responded to my support request regarding this.
Wishing happy valentine's day to slashdotters is like wishing Merry Christmas to a hindu.
another fucking minor change to the apple product line
Dude you got a Dell....
Well, you'll at least be able to tell how optimized Apple's OpenGL is compared to directx (for native games). It's been under scrutiny on the PPC side as being pretty pokey for games.
What is this "in debt experience" you speak of?
Most real world tests (performed on the intel iMacs, not macbook pro's, obviously) suggest Rosetta runs powerPC native apps at about 50% native speed. But Universal Binary apps run a good deal fast (I'm seeing 20-50%ish, depending on the app).
gekko
LGPL.
Windows is like decaf - it tastes like the real thing, but it won't get you through the day.
No, actually, MSHTML doesn't go "deeper". It's just a library that (like Webkit) renders HTML and a few other standards. You really don't understand this on a deep technical level, do you? MSHTML isn't tied to the "kernel" by any stretch of the imagination... however, certain parts of Windows, such as the help system, use MSHTML as their rendering engine, so that they don't have to go inventing another markup language to present the same fundamental kind of hyperlinked content that the web itself is based on. That's called component reuse.
The reason MSHTML has been such a major source of security vulnerabilities over the years is because it allowed many arbitrary OS components to be instantiated inside of it, with the same permissions as the user. That's not really a failing of the OS -- that's a design failure of MSHTML! There is an important difference here, and you'd do well to understand it before levelling blame.
That's the point with Webkit but not with MacOS X.
Just a note - World of Warcraft has 2 graphical engines - an OpenGL based one and a DirectX based one. Mac version only contains the OpenGL version, the Windows build defaults to DirectX but can be switched to OpenGL.
There are two seperate engines/set of procedure calls so there's no "translation" overhead.
"...So I hung back and lurked. For 18 months. Can't beat a good old-fashioned lurking."
That Apple will ship revised units every month or so? Or, does it simply mean that having switched to Intel processors, we will see Apple have more version bumps in their systems say every quarter?
I bought an iMac G5 (rev B) last year. I'm not the least bit concerned about the switch since the Intel systems are still under the first batch. Not only might some hardware issues creep up, but there's still the performance hit from not having native intel-only binaries for a lot of the programs. By the time my Applecare (3 yr) runs out on this system, I *might* consider an upgrade. Depends on if I really need to upgrade my software and OS (10.5 better have some really good features).
1.83 and 2 GHz iMacs are listed (but no 2.16 GHz upgrade option).
-- Boycott Shell
Safari is connected to the OS in the same way that Firefox, if you download it, will be connected to the OS. Just set html documents to open in Firefox and make it your default browser!
I'm not trying to express anything besides my genuine surprise. I can't remember ever hearing of a computer manufacturer upgrading their entire release of a product for free.
Typically my skeptic expects companies to throttle delivering features so that they can get more longevity out of a product, and, while I can understand Apple trying to magnify the bang for the buck from this new product, it still strikes me as exceptional.
Any previous examples of this? If so, can you explain what the situation was to compell the decision?
Windows is like decaf - it tastes like the real thing, but it won't get you through the day.
I know it is a bit much to expect from a slashdot posting, but those of us who can read English learned long ago that there is a difference between "has started shipping", which is what the slashdot posting says, versus "will begin shipping", which is what the article actually says.
Yes, the article said "this week", which is pretty soon. But I still maintain that there is a difference between the future an dthe past. Conventional of me, I know.
Not to mention that the Core Duos in these MacBooks keep up performance-wise with an Athlon64 3800+ X2 according to Anandtech benchmarks. These truly are some excellent machines. I don't know what Apple-haters are smoking.
"Sufferin' succotash."
And the Core Duo matches the Athlon64 3800+ X2 in Anandtech benchmarks.
Besides, I wouldn't give a damn anyway if a modern Windows machine outperforms a MacBook in games. If you want waste $2,000 on computer hardware just to play videogames, buy a console and save the cash. Maybe Windows machines are only good for playing pitch-dark first-person-shooters all day along, I don't know.
"Sufferin' succotash."
3-4 hrs still beats the living tar out of a lot of PC laptops, if it was actual "real world" usage; not some invented figure based on never accessing the HD or optical disk drive, using the wireless card, or anything else.
I've bitched elsewhere about it so I won't rehash the issue, but let's just say that I've been unhappily surprised that the 'acceptable' battery life of PC notebooks is substantially less than what I'd grown to feel was normal, after several years of using Apple products. Plus they do nasty little things like scaling the processor way down when running on batteries, also. (Yes, I'm aware you can turn this off, but you would further reduce the already short battery life.) Most PC-using friends of mine see their laptop's battery as something that they use in order to get from one outlet to the next without shutting down, not really a power source to do useful work from.
I hope Apple doesn't go down that road with the Intel chips.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Sure, the thin and light models have Intel integrated video, but the desktop replacement models (9300 and e1705) offer high end video cards like the Geforce Mobile 6800 and 7800GT for about $200 extra. Just wait for a coupon deal, and you'll be paying hundreds less than for a Macbook.
I'd imagine they are comparable to the old powerpc based laptop model in terms of battery life. While there is more stuff packed into the systems, one of the hallmarks of the new Intel Core Duo chips is very efficient power consumption. Of course, this is just speculation as we'll have to see some real tests to confirm this.
You are who you are, let no one tell you different. But, never close your mind to a new point of view.
Wow, so you can play The Sims 2, or another dark gray hallway in Doom 3 or F.E.A.R, at 3% higher framerates. I sure am missing out. Hold on while I unhook my high-end video editing and audio recording equipment so I can shoot some polygons, because that's what matters.
Besides, I dispute your claim that a Windows machine "will always" outperform a MacBook anyway, considering the Core Duo nearly matches the performance of an Athlon64 3800+ X2 according to Anandtech. Given the MacBook Pro's specs, it's actually the most powerful gaming laptop out there and probably will always outperform any Windows laptop.
"Sufferin' succotash."
u r gay
cheers,
ac
I would love to know when they are going to put the Powerbooks on sale. Soon I hope, now that the MacBooks are actually shipping. As soon as the "sales droids" can push the MacBook in the store, I bet they'll have to cut price on the Powerbooks to move them.
I have $thousands worth of PPC software that won't be available in univseral binary for a year at least, and I'd love to pick up the last and greatest PPC Mac laptop to hold me over a couple years until all the Intel kinks are worked out.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
My bad, that is $1799. They also offer brand new 15" Powerbooks for $1499 and leftover 100Gig "17 Powerbooks for $1649.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
perhaps i've been reading /. too long when "compatibility" spelled correctly multiple times in one reply looks a bit odd... :D
expected late this year or 2008
kind of a big gap there don't you think?
Bravo -- you hit the nail on the head exactly.
I think this pretty much sums up Apple's retail strategy completely.
The closest they ever get to a "sale" (usually a bit before the holidays, another one over the summer) is that they'll up-spec the whole lineup by a certain amount. The beauty of this is that people generally don't see the price on the laptop they bought decreasing -- they usually don't bump the specs by so much at once that the middle-of-the-road system instantly becomes the $999 one, it happens gradually. Even though the different systems (Fast, Faster, Fastest) become more powerful over time, it avoids the feeling of being ripped off that's common to computer purchasers when they go online six months later and find out the system they purchased for $1k is now $600. You'll never see that on Apple's site: all you'll ever see are three systems for each model, and always at (about) the same three price points. They just become progressively better, not the same model becoming "cheaper." It's kind of a subtle psychological thing, but it works.
It's also great because most people (most 'average consumers,' and definitely most parents who are buying a computer for a kid) pick out the price they're willing to pay FIRST, then choose specs. So they decide, "okay, I'll spend a grand on a laptop." And that's it -- aside from maybe a little upselling, that's what they're willing to pay. Very few people actually go out with an idea of the specifications of the computer they want to purchase (e.g. "I want a 1.2GHz system with 512MB RAM and a 80GB hard drive with WiFi."). Geeks may do that, but the majority of the people lined up at the Apple Store probably don't.
I have a feeling that the strategy was one that they developed as a company after it became clear that they weren't going to win the megahertz war; you don't want people emphasizing specifications, you want them to associate the price directly with the product, and that product with the user experience. The hardware specs are details. They're nerdy. Ignore them. And people do -- happily.
If you look at how Apple advertises its higher-end products (the Power Macs) you'll notice there's slightly more emphasis on specifications and customization, and less on price. But at the entry level, there are usually three price points, and three products: 'you pays your money and yous gets your computer.'
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
ya unfortunately ATI cards have long had problems with opengl in their drivers, and the superfly ati cards inside these macbooks wont run quite as super when processing it.
Dang! I can't wait to get my hands on my new MacBook! I ordered the 1.83 Ghz model so now I get the 2.0 Ghz model. Boo yah!
This IS a valentine from Apple!
Umm..please ignore my subject - chalk it up to too much java and MacBook anticipation.
And I will wait for the new video iPod - twarn't born yesterday, y'know!
"Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
Quoth the poster:
Seriously, i'm waiting for someone to give good benchmarks on these- especially testing for Warcraft.
You want to get some work done? Buy a laptop.
You want to play games? Get a Playstation.
$2300 vs $400.... it should be an easy choice.
Does anyone else here get the irony of /.-ers spending virtual lifetimes bashing 'Doze, hating every byte of M$ kruftware, and yearning for an environmental catastrophe in Redmond, then getting all excited about the potential of running XP on a new MacBook?
Am I alone here when I utter a collossal WTF?
Believe it or not, there are different kinds of people on Slashdot! Whoa!
Some people don't like Microsoft. They probably still don't.
Some people do like Microsoft, and take exception to the fact that they've decided to come to a place where a lot of people don't. They'll post all about how persecuted they are and engage in passive-agressive discussion of the moderation system like "You are going to mod me down for this, I know it! Go ahead and prove me wrong unless you really are a bunch of elitist jerks." They will probably like to boot whatever they like on the Mac(Power)Book.
Some people don't care. They just want to run what they want to run on their hardware of choice. They'd like to know that Windows will run so that they can run whatever they want to run. After all, if Windows will run on it then most likely anything else will.
I know you all are going to mod me down for this, go ahead and prove me wrong unless you really are a bunch of moderators who think that this post doesn't merit a high score based on the quality of its content! Ha! So there.
---GEC
I'm but the humble pupil, seeking to snatch the scratchbuilt pebble from the master's fully articulated hand
The Dell 9300 is a single Centrino laptop. Not at all in the same class as the MacBook.
The e1705 has dual-core models available starting at $2221 ($1971 after rebate.)
So, for $20 less than the MacBook, you get a nearly identical-spec machine with a little bit more memory and... WOAH. Stop the press.
That $1971 Dell comes with "Integrated Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950", while the MacBook features a screamin' ATI Mobility Radeon X1600.
The closest the Dell can do to match that is add the NVIDA® GeForce(TM) Go 7800... For $300 more!
So, if you want a laptop that is suitable for gaming, you will pay $300 if you follow the "Dell Dude's" advice.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
The two models now sport 1.83 GHz and 2.0 GHz Core Duos (up from 1.67 GHz and 1.83 GHz). A 2.16 GHz upgrade is also available.
Damn, I was hoping the upgarde was dual-layer Superdrives. I think more people would have appreciated that upgrade than a measly 120Mhz.
As far as the slimness of the Macbook requiring a single layer drive... Huh? The Powerbook was the same thickness and it had a dual layer superdrive.
Link, please?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Now that the MacBooks are shipping, do you think this will ignite a Universal Binary explosion? Within days of the Intel iMac [maybe that's what the 'i' has always foreshadowed? ;) ] being released, I saw Universal binaries for a pair of IM clients: Adium and Fire. MacFamilyTree was also quickly released as a Universal Binary.
l
Maybe I just happen to hit the right apps, or maybe they're small enough software shops that they can move this fast, but I have this impression that building Universal binaries is starting to move at a good clip. Here is a site that has a list of them, last updated Feb. 13:
http://www.macintouch.com/imacintel/ubinaries.htm
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
Never mind! :-)
-- Boycott Shell
I'd dualboot for games mostly. It's perfect: a slick, stable system for every day's work and Windows for the lunchtime break game session.
And no, you don't want to play games with WINE. It's a PITA, and that's the one thing you don't want games to be.
safari is really a front end to WebKit which is just Konqueror without all the fancy buttons.
much like IE is just a front end to the internet explorer rendering engine which is used by many other apps on windows (which is why you can't remove the bulk of IE without causing big trouble)
WebKit is nice as you can integrate a browser into any app with 1 line of code.
with IE you don't even need that its just a matter of dropping a control on a form in vb or (after importing it) delphi.
So it's like IE in that it's a component (Framework)
true
but unlike it in that it isn't part of the fundamental OS
neithers IE really its just something that so many apps depend on you can't really get away with removing it.
WebKit does one thing only
i thought it rendered web pages which is a hugely complex intermeshing set of tasks.
and it is secure
better than IE almost certainly. Proven secure, almost certainly not.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
I'm afraid the application process is rather lengthy, but here you go
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
Well, the supply of ExpressCard compatible devices is limited, but this fact doesn't consider the most important point. The entire industry is moving to ExpressCard this year because the standard is better than the previous PCSlot / PCMCIA stuff. ExpressCard uses less power for example, and laptop vendors are eager to adopt it.
GPRS / EDGE can be used through the MacBook Pro Bluetooth interface, and that's the way most laptop users use the service today. Reason? If you use a plugin slot card you must either swap your SIM card all the time or use (and pay for) a second cell phone line. (I think as of a few weeks ago this is also true for EVDO with the Motorola RAZR from Verizon.)
There exist cute little readers that read five or six kinds of memory sticks for something like twenty bucks. These connect to the USB port and it's what most laptop users get. Reason? The PCSLot devices typically only read one or two types of memory sticks, because the slot was too small anyway. Granted, it's convenient if you only need to read one type of memory and if you don't need the slot for anything else.
And Dude! The fact that it runs Mac OS X does set it apart, in a really nice way.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Just to be pedantic: The WebCore/WebKit frameworks are sort-of tied into the OS. If you replace/trash Safari.app, you have not touched the parts that actually do the job of rendering web content. You also can't just replace the version of Safari that shipped with your computer (speaking in general terms... there are means to use the latest versions, but these often have the requirement of the latest OS anyways). In these regards Safari/MacOS X is similar to IE.
However, Finder.app does not use Safari, and dependancies are few and far between (Help.app would be one), so this is a much more limited thing than IE.
Maybe you mean prospective .
Or, possibly respective .
It is doubtful you actually mean perspective .
The drivers in this case are written by Apple, not ATI. They may consult with ATI people but you cannot compare Windows OpenGL driver support (not a high priority) with OpenGL support on a platform where it is the only graphic standard.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Pfft! Counting tuition, those are the most expensive personal computers ever!
Since I'm not the youngest son of an aristocrat, I have little use for going to Harvard.
How about I take all the money I would spend on their tuition, put it in an IRA, and when I retire I can buy them a building or something and get an honorary degree? I'll get a much better education elsewhere, and I won't need to hang around with rich New England assholes to do so.
Cheers!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
With the Intel-based Macs, I wonder if Apple will feel the pressure to keep up the GHz race with other PCs. If so, does that mean an updated CPU every few months?
Apple could dodge the GHz number when they're on the PowerPC. That's harder to do now.
I keep trying to come up with reasons why I should't buy Apple also. Currently I am holding out for an Intel iMac Mini but I am wondering what excuse I will need to come up with after they start shipping. Maybe I will use you Rev 0 one.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Apps using webkit/IE is one thing... the OS using it for a core function is another. Filesystem navigation and display of the desktop is a core function.
I never understood why people seem to like using web browsers for file navigation. It's ugly and slow.
To be a truly required part of the operating system, the OS has to break if you remove it. All the apps you indicated are just that - apps. Yes, even Dashboard. None of them perform critical functions in the OS.
Windows uses IE for file system navigation. Hard to get things done when you can't see your files. It also (used to? still does?) uses it for rendering the desktop.
You can buy a Dell with a better vid card in it for less than what a Macbook Pro costs. I don't expect that it'd outperform a PC in vid games very much, if it all.
Hurry up and do it!
Reward offered for Windows XP on the new x86 Macs.
The pot is up to $11,318 for whoever does it first (with working, repeatable instructions). That'll buy you some nice bling.
You can't take points off the Mac because it implements the open and cross platform OpenGL instead of the closed and Windows only Direct X and lots of developers write in DirectX and then use some kind of crazy translation instead of just writing in OpenGL in the first place.
Someone else did a comparison to Dell and found that the nearest Dell laptop came out $20 cheaper with integrated graphics, $300 more with a decent graphics upgrade. Plus the Dell is probably heavy and plastic.
LGPL, as noted in another reply.
Because non-free software can be linked with LGPL software without having to be made free.
or understand transitive trusts even less. this might be flamebait, but it's also a rebuttal to a clearly ignorant comment. It's not my usual form to be so conflicting, so I'm hoping I don't get modded into the flame/troll hole for speaking up here.
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
When non-technical users look at buying Apple, one of the first things they typically will hear is that it isn't 100% compatible with Windows programs (Virtual PC isn't perfect)*.
That creates a degree of trepidation, and in some cases is enough to discourage a sale. That is why it is called a "switch" rather than an "add" campaign.
If supporting Windows is so terrible then why does WINE exist?
Yes, you and I might not use Windows, but some people do. And some people do actually need it for running custom programs.
People who don't know much about computers are typically a little timid of them. I like the thought of being able to tell people not to worry [sic: , relax], and that all their software will work on a shiney new Apple laptop (I only recommend Apple laptops, but would never buy a desktop), and that the quality of an Apple laptop (not to mention with Apple care) is well worth the initial cost.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_PC - So to be honest you have to use a line like "your Apple SHOULD be able to run every Windows program" rather than "your Apple can run every Windows program" People don't like maybes when spending more than a thousand dollars.
Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
Ouch, those grapes must be sour anyway, right?
;-)
First of all, they aren't rich New England assholes. They are rich East Asian assholes. You certainly can get a better undergraduate education many places (notably down the street at MIT). Harvard's graduate schools are mostly extremely good though.
However, here are three options you haven't considered:
1) Be a really, really good hockey player like Jamie Hagerman, Caitlen chow and Angela Ruggiero, not to mention Ted Donato. Then you can go gratis.
3) Have your university destroyed by a hurricane (also gratis).
3) Get a job at they university or at an affilated institution. Harvard pays thousands of people to accept these Apple deals. And since minimum age in Cambridge is $10/hr. you wouldn't have to give up your custodial career.
Seriously though, Harvard was good enough for Ralph Waldo Emerson, Wallace Stevens, T. S. Eliot, E. E. Cummings, Leonard Bernstein, Jack Lemmon, Philip Johnson, and W. E. B. Du Bois. It is probably good enough for you. If you can't get into Yale, McGill or MIT, Harvard isn't a bad choice.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
"These machines are for the pro users"
Right, because pro users immediately gravitate to a mac, and a new architecture mac at that.
Do you even read what you write?
"Can I plug it into a 30" dual-DVI flatpanel?"
I think for the Acer, the answer is yes. In terms of features, my impression is that it beats the mac on features and price.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Whoever said that the difference between Rosetta and Universal wasn't much is either running the 256meg ATI card or is legally blind.
I'm running 1 gig of RAM on the 17" iMac with the 128meg card and I was testing the beta Universal patch for about 1 1/2 weeks before it was released, meaning I've logged about 20 hours under Universal over the past 3 weeks.
Under Rosetta, I was pulling 3-7 fps in Org all day, every day. Under the Universal patch, that is up to a respectable 22-25 fps consistently with no spiking. In STV, under Rosetta the difference was considerably smaller with 12-16 fps and after patching to Universal, it jumped to 17-24 fps. Not a huge jump, but it took the game from "aggravating" to "acceptable".
BTW, those numbers are with ALL settings turned down under Rosetta and with the settings at the half mark excepting terrain distance, which is maxed out. If I was to crank everything down under the Universal patch, I'd be pulling 35-40+ fps damned near everywhere (I tried it for a few hours but decided that the distance draw was more important than 10-15 fps).
Comment removed based on user account deletion
"I can't remember ever hearing of a computer manufacturer upgrading their entire release of a product for free."
You can't be serious?
Go to Dell's web site. Make note of a particular model's spec's and price.
Go to Dell's web site 30-60 days later. Make note of a particular model's specs and price. You'll note the specs will increase slightly and the price will decrease slightly. Dell is hardly unique. This is the standard way of doing business for computer hardware makers. It's been that way since the first personal computers in the 70's.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Oh, I'm not :)
I have a Mac and I write OpenGL stuff in Java when I get the opportunity.
Oh good. ;)
There seem to be a lot of people who run around saying how great open source and open standards are, but then pan the Mac for not running DirectX games. There IS a perfectly good alternative to DirectX that is open and widely implemented. Some game developers (Id) is use it on ideological grounds. Lots more would if people started to choose games written using OpenGL.
In e-mail I just received from Apple, announcing this change to my January 10th order, they note that while they're upgrading my machine to 2GHz they're also delaying its shipment by 3 days, from the 15th to the 18th. Ostensibly this is in order to give me time to decide whether or not to give them $300 for an extra .1GHz (for a ~5% speed increase; I'd rather have 5% more battery than 5% more processor, since that's unlikely to be the bottleneck for how I'll be using the system). In reality, this is a drag -- I was looking forward to using my machine before then. What's three days slip in the scheme of things? Not much, but it's still frustrating. (If I chose to upgrade to the 2.1GHz, the e-mail warns, I can expect additional delays.)
Why is Apple upgrading the Mac Book Pros? It's not because they like their customers; altruism goes over poorly with the stockholders when you're reporting your quarterly numbers. I'm guessing it's some combination of Intel running late on the lower-end chips -- perhaps because all the Windows laptop vendors are trying to crank out their cheaper machines faster and in greater volume, and Apple doesn't yet rate at its end of the supply chain -- and in exchange for some Apple program manager releasing his or her grip on an Intel program manager's testicles the chip manufacturer has offered to "upgrade" the shipment.
Perhaps Apple simply didn't sell as many Mac Book Pros as they'd hoped, and slipped out of the range they needed to hit in order to get the break on quantity they wanted. Maybe everyone who wanted a Mac laptop bought one before Christmas, since they'd just revised the PowerBooks. Or perhaps Apple has had Intel redirect the lower-end chips to the factory where another new Mac is being built, in order to accelerate their production there. I'm glad I waited until after the MacWorld Keynote, myself.
Forgive me, but this "problem" is a non-issue! This is not 1995. This is 2006. The internet is not a brand spanking new thing anymore, and access to it is a commodity rather than a luxury. A browser *IS* an important and central feature of what is expected a computer will have out of the box. In fact, you'd have to go through hoops to acquire firefox/camino/whatever for your new Mac/Windows PC if no browser came with the machine. In fact, I also found the de-coupling of Media Player from Windows that was mandated here in Europe completely preposterous. It's not like we're talking about bundling Office or anything. I just want to be able to play my music and films out of the box, and I can't find to be an unreasonable expectation.
Not sure what you meant by "gratis" in your examples, but the Ivy League does not have athletic scholarships. But I'm not familiar with how need-based financial aid works out for Harvard undergrads.
And, BTW, you can add Henry David Thoreau to the list, although that was a very different school, and Thoreau wasn't the typical product.
Universal binaries can run on x86 Macs as well as PPC Macs. They are just as universal as Sony's Universal Media Disks.
Yeah I'm a bit ticked off now. Up until ten minutes ago I was expecting my new MacBook Pro to be shipping tomorrow, the 15th, but I just got an email from Apple explaining that they were bumping the speed, and if they didn't hear from me to keep it at 1.83 Ghz by the 18th that they'd go ahead and ship by the 28th!
I'm happy to have the speed increase, but I'm not thrilled at having to wait another two weeks for it. if this was the case, I'd have liked to know about it a little earlier than the eve that it was to ship.
Not to be a smart ass, but what do you need a browser for? Did you forget that OS X has *nix under the covers:
r efox/releases/1.5.0.1/mac/en-US/Firefox%201.5.0.1. dmg
This works:
wget http://ftpmozilla.netscape.com/pub/mozilla.org/fi
Harvard is in the ECAC for hockey not the Ivy League. Technically there is no Ivy League hockey, although they do award a specious championship to the top ECAC school which happens to be an Ivy. The Crimson men and women are top tier Division I-A hockey programs. Believe me, despite the absence of official "athletic" scholarships, top hockey players do not pay their own way at Ivy/ECAC schools. Even the women get extrememly generous financial aid packages. They have to in order to compete with schools like UNH which currently has 18 NCAA full rides for the women's team.
Hmmm.. I thought I had Thoreau on the list. Must have deleted him by accident. Could add John and John Q Adams as well.
It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man
-James Baldwin
then dell or hp or whoever can install a media player before you buy the computer.
From a hardware perspective, let alone a software one, not only is there a difference in the graphics card, CPU form factor and weight, but I think the display is one of the most noticeable ones, the new MacBook does 1440 by 900, whereas the Aspire only manages 1280 by 800.
You can get an Acer with very simlar specs to the MacBook Pro, the thing is, it's got a very similar price too, so it's not as if Apple are alone in charging a premium price for premium performance (though I would note the Acer is still heavier, and with not as nice a form factor).
Ultimately though, it's likely to come down to what OS you want to run.
I said wait for a coupon deal. There's a $200 off coupon floating around the deal websites, and it stacks on top of the $250 rebate. About this...
The e1705 has dual-core models available starting at $2221 ($1971 after rebate.)
Sorry, try again. The $2271-$250 rebate price is for the most expensive e1705 on Dell's featured page, with the 3 year warranty, 3 years antivirus subscription, and Microsoft Office. To match just the warranty you'd pay $349 for 3 years of Applecare. Go two columns over and you'll find a Dell with one year warranty, no antivirus (AVG Free works fine), and no office suite for $1399-$250 rebate-$200 coupon, add $100 to upgrade the processor to a Core Duo 1.83GHz and add $35 to match the 80GB drive. Add $300 for the Nvidia 7800 video and you're still at just $1384. You can't beat that price.
BTW, the Macbook and e1705 aren't exactly the same size class. e1705 is a desktop replacement with a 17" screen and a few pounds heavier than the Macbook with a 15.4" screen.
Valentines day is a rather silly (yet good) example of the insecurities and fickleness of Human beings. (Now before you put me down as a cynic, I'd like to note I'm in a great relationship with a girl and we both agree on this. I gave her choclate eggs anyway, because she said she wanted some =D.)
I mean, I get to school and I immediately have 2 friends (Let's call them L and J). L's crying because she hasn't had any luck with love (since she dated me =S) and J is doing his whole "Emo and depressed singles awareness day" thing.
Next we have all the plastic girls competeing to see who bought them the most fake roses, the poor guys petitioned all week into spend $2.50 on something not only inedible, but also meaningless.
Then on the train home, there's two girls ranting to their boyfriends over the phone, one complaining that not only did her boyfriend only get her a dozen roses, but he wasn't even man enough to come and hand deliver them to her, instead forcing her to wait until she gets over to his house in 15 minutes (Oh noes!). The other one is so upset because her boyfriend of 25 minutes didn't call her to say "Happy Valentines" that she's choking on her own tears, having to hand the phone over to her friend who gives the awful man an earful on how Valentine's is "about us girls" and that he has to make "us girls feel special". Is grammar so atrocious everywhere else in the world?
Seriously, if you really loved your significant other, then not only would your gifts be spontaneous and fun things, but you'd also appreciate any gifts given to you regardless of their expense.
Happy Human's Are Retarded Day kids.
Besides, I dispute your claim that a Windows machine "will always" outperform a MacBook anyway, considering the Core Duo nearly matches the performance of an Athlon64 3800+ X2 according to Anandtech. Given the MacBook Pro's specs, it's actually the most powerful gaming laptop out there and probably will always outperform any Windows laptop
Something like a good Aurora from Alienware, or a similar system from a performance oriented vendor, is always going to spank the MacBook in terms of performance.
Even though I play a *lot* of games, I'd still much rather have the MacBook (I have a 1.5+ Ghz G4 AuBook atm, and had a TiBook previously). Other than the OS (of course) the major factors are the form factor and portability, that and I also do Real Work (TM) which means I want something I can use to handle long, complicated and tedious Microsoft Office documents flawlessly (OO still doesn't quite do this for me..) and run and build Unix software on.
As gaming performance is nowhere near going to match my desktop (AMD FX57, Dual/SLI 7800 GTX, 2 GB DDR, 10K RPM SATA/SATA2 disks, etc etc) I'm completely happy if as long as games - like MMO's, and most FPS are playable at the native resolution at a medium level of detail on my laptop.
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
My delivery date has just gone from shipping on 15th and delivery on 17th to shipping on 28th Feb and delivery on 2 March, so this is probably the reason that we are getting a free upgrade.
I am ok with that as long as the end result is worth having, as this is the first apple I have bought, but a bit annoying.
Humorous signatures are over-rated.
Crikey... I really should refrain from posting after consuming alcoholic beverages...
Don't worry about the "Celeron" brand. The "Celeron M" (based on Pentium M) has been a very good performer and fantastic value since its introduction in January 2004. Two of the desktop versions of Celeron were crappier than crap, though: (1) the original Celeron (based on Pentium 2 but with no L2 cache) and (2) the first Pentium 4-based Celerons (128K L2 cache).
The key differences between Core Solo and the next versions of Celeron M (based on Core Solo):
I predict the Celeron M-based iBooks and Mac minis will demolish the G4 in most of the apps used on these "non-professional" Macs. Since they're coming in April at the earliest, most of these apps will be further optimized for Intel (even Altivec/SSE3 apps).
Source:
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
What on Earth are you going on about?
It's a *laptop*
It's got a good GPU, runs the latest processor and performs very nicely indeed. It's probably as good with games as any laptop.
What are the options that you get for laptops on the PC side? You can't just throw in a new motherboard, CPU or GPU. They're nearly always unchangeable.
So what are your customisation options in the laptop world? Or are you just comparing Apple's laptop line with the entire PC desktop range? Of course, that'd be pure foolishness, so I'll assume you just don't know what you're on about.
By the way, it's not a *Windows* thing, it's a *PC* thing - you need to understand that. Don't argue that Windows gives you heaps of hardware options, because you'll always come off looking like... well, like you do after your rant above.
Lastly, Apple don't use a BIOS. They have *never* used a BIOS, and never will. What exactly do you want them to open? The core of the OS is open sourced, their hardware makes use of many open standards, they're involved in many open source projects, they sit on boards like the OpenGL ARB and they recently gave a bunch of laptops to key contributors. Contrast with (ooh, let's pick some random tech company) Microsoft in this area.
They're not perfect, but you could at least ground your criticisms in reality instead of some fantasy land.
No, you are making the same mistake this guy made. You are severely underestimating what the MacBook Pro includes. You will find a more equilibrated comparison here, although admittedly that guy is comparing to an Inspiron 9400.
So, to return to your chosen model, you will need to add: WinXP Pro (come one, don't tell me Media Center edition actually is good enough for you!) ($149), the a/b/g wireless card ($25), Bluetooth ($49).
That brings the price (after rebates) to roughly $1600, but you still are missing a load of things that aren't an option on the Dell's website: an integrated webcam that's actually very good, faster Ethernet, better audio options (digital in/out, and I don't see any info about microphone or integrated speakers in the Dell), light sensors and illuminated keyboard (that's actually useful), remote control (you need to downgrade to Media Center edition to get the honor of configuring one), Magsafe, and a truckload of software that doesn't suck. Oh, and the Mac will run Vista, but the Dell will require nasty hacks to run Leopard.
In the end you are right, the Dell is still cheaper. But not nearly as by much as you think.
Windows is like decaf - it tastes like the real thing, but it won't get you through the day.
In fact, it's "tied in" in an almost identical fashion to IE in Windows.
[...] and you're free to use Firefox, Camino, Opera or any other browser.
Wow. Just like Windows.
I ordered a MacBook Pro on January 10th. I ordered the top of the line (at that point) standard configuration. My first ship date was Feb. 15. My next ship date was Feb. 28. Today, I received confirmation that my NEW order date would be March 3.
Needless to say, I'm livid with Apple. I cancelled my order. I then called my local Apple Store (Newark, DE). They said they would be receiving MBPros next week.
In other words, Apple's priority is to ship MacBook Pros to people who have not even purchased them yet, rather than those who have been waiting for what will be nearly two months.
As a twenty-year Apple customer, I am ticked to say the least.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Wow. That's the biggest bit of flamebait I've seen in a long time... Let's break it down, point by point.
While AMD is indeed outselling Intel in the 'retail desktop' market, there is nothing 'traditional' about this, it's a recent turn of events. And by most counts, the Pentium-M and Core Duo are at least a match for the latest AMDs. Yes, the Pentium 4/Pentium D suck. That's why Intel is abandoning that core.
Ah, AMD fanboy speak. I'm sorry, but Core Duo simply spanks any available AMD mobile solution. Check out some reviews (Core Duo 2 GHz, ATI X1400 scores 2092 3DMark05's, and... Oh, wait, I can't find any reviews of a dual-core mobile AMD with current-generation graphics... Sorry. The best I could find was 1203 3DMark05's for a 1.6 GHz Turion with AMD X700 graphics. I looked for over half an hour. Only one review of an AMD-equipped laptop without integrated graphics. And AMD doesn't offer dual-core mobile at any price.
possibly? You can choose the amount of RAM you want... Better integrated graphics? Look again. Apple has X1600 at 128 or 256 MB of VRAM. I only found one non-chipset graphics on an AMD notebook, and it was 64 MB X700. Although I did find an Alienware with a desktop processor and video chip for significantly more than a MacBook Pro (when configured with the slowest dual-core processor, and all other specs equal to the MacBook.)
Yes, and most of the customizations are necessary to bring it to the minimum level of the MacBook; and my 2.0 GHz Core Duo and 256 MB ATI X1600 will be just horrible for gaming. I mean, for crying out loud, the Alienware $2500 portable gaming monster only comes with 256 MB of system memory by default!
If it's the same hardware, then it's the same computing power. You can install Linux on a Mac just as a Windows machine. And, again, configure the same between a PC company and a MacBook Pro, and you'll find that you're not paying 'way more' money. Maybe a little more, but as I like 'thin and light', it's worth it to me. (And, as I mentioned, if you configure an Alienware the same, it ends up significantly more expensive.) Nobody ever said Apple was a 'cheap' supplier. They're at the same level as Alienware, or Dell's XPS series. Or compare to a ThinkPad or a Sony. Those are the same 'level' of computer as a Mac. Don't compare to a Compaq or a generic.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Indeo Video 3,4,5 and i263 have never even made it out of Classic. Sure, they're old and pretty useless, but wait until you run into a mission critical file that is impossible to open. "Oh, you can't open that on your MacBook huh? I told you that you should have gotten something IBM compatible." :-/
Not to flame, but the TPM is only used by OS X. It would not stop, say, Linux from running on the box.
Anyone who cannot comprehend the difference between TPM used to essentially try and keep software running on one box (obviously a futile effort but it's for the casual hackers) versus a box built to keep only one piece of software running on it is frankly too stupid to live. So we'd all appreciate it if you'd jump off a cliff or something - we are really indifferent to how you go as long as the gene pool is that much cleaner.
But seriously - the Macintel gear can't hold up against a modern Windows machine. Why not?
Because your modern Windows machine will traditionally have a more powerful AMD processor
Ha Ha Ha hha Ho Ho Hee he ha!!!!!!!!!!
Man that was funny.
This would all be terribly interesting, if there were any games for the Mac.
The G4 15" powerbooks get just over 2 hours in actual use. Don't trust me, go back to the apple support pages where people were bitching about this for years.
I have a pismo, and best case you get 2:30 on them. Best case. Watching a movie, you're lucky to get 2 hours.
I find it enormously funny when fanbois say:
"Oh my powerbook gets 10 hours... 20 if I use the 2nd battery..."
when its utter bullshit, and what they mean is that during a cross country flight that took 6 hours, they turned their PB on for 45 minutes twice, but in their mind they used it 6 hours. Powerbooks never got 4-6 hours on a battery. Ever. When I moved from my pismo to an HP with a 1.6 Pentium M, I was amazed to get around 4 hours, since no laptop had gotten anywhere close to that.
The new Macbooks will probably get 3 -> 3:30 for battery life realistically, bizarre rantings of the fanbois aside.
someone was quick they got them on ebay as the 2Ghz Edition.
t em=8766405196
:D I don't mind waiting a little longer get them them as long as there making it right?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&i
Anyone know where i can get one as cheap as what he's getting them. I'm a student and can't aford the wack price.
Otherwise i welcome the upgrade I get the 1.8Ghz version for the price of the 1.6??? Got to Be good!
WebKit is also used as the basis for other apps - Shiira.app is a Japanese open source (I think) browser that uses WebKit but offers more functions than Safari. NetNewsWire - the RSS aggregator - has a built-in tabbed browser based on WebKit.
catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
I am happy about the processor upgrade, but the delay is indeed irritating.
I also ordered an abosolute top-of-the-line macbook on the 10th and had an original ship date of 2/15. Mine has been slipped to 2/28 with a delivery date of March 7. (Who pays for express shipping for an item when you've already waited 6 weeks?)
In spite of that, I'm not going to cancel my order because I can't be at the Apple store when it opens on the day that they get them in. I don't expect them to last long enough for me to come by after work.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Yeah, you're absolutely right!
.Mac integration as well as an AMD Linux box!
There's no way a Mac would be able to run Photoshop, InDesign, my EyeTV, ProTools, Peak, and iSync w/
Oh, wait, that stuff doesn't run on Linux. So it really doesn't matter if the CPU is marginally faster under benchmarks, because it could be 10x faster and it STILL WOULDN"T DO WHAT I WANT IT TO DO!
'Tard.
Exactly! Once Grandma sets up her new iMac, I'm sure that's the first thing she'll do.
The MacBook Pro is indeed powerful. But it's hardly the fastest laptop out there for gaming. Falcon Northwest have a laptop that comes with an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ and Nvidia Geforce 7800 Go graphics. Now THAT is a real screamer of a laptop. 3% faster? That's silly. We're talking twice as fast, easily.