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How Great Cheap Phones Never Get to the U.S.
prostoalex writes "Gary Krakow from MSNBC is impressed with Motorola's C116 phone only to find out that that the phone is not available in the US. The reason? 'A very, very basic GSM handset that handles incoming and outgoing calls as well as SMS messages, the C116 is sold all over the world -- except for the United States. It's not sold here because it's too cheap!' The phone is targeted for emerging markets, where people don't like to tie themselves into monthly contracts, and with little value proposition presents little interest to US wireless operators."
Aside from this, he makes a great point about how the U.S. phone market is too controlled by a tiny handful of providers. I would like to see phones unlinked from the service providers, much as personal computers are separate from the DSL and cable broadband providers. Imagine if you had to buy a Verizon PC or a Comcast Macintosh and if you switched from Comcast Cable to Verizon DSL you'd need to buy a new PC!
It seems as though GSM is a step in the right direction because T-Mobile, Cingular, and ATT branded phones are basically interchangeable. Even so, the Europeans and Japanese always seem to have much cooler phones, and the options in the U.S. are just so limited.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
There are expenses for businesses in having extended product line, especially when the market for these types of phones is limited (and they do offer the upgraded version anyway).
If you can get the upgraded colour version for only $30 anyway is there really a story here?
__
Funny PORN Clips from Laugh DAILY
The phone is targeted for emerging markets, where people don't like to tie themselves into monthly contracts,
Am I wrong, or do they mean yearly contracts?
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
“IMAGINE a magical device that could boost entrepreneurship and economic activity, provide an alternative to bad roads and unreliable postal services, widen farmers’ access to markets, and allow swift and secure transfers of money. Now stop imagining: the device in question is the mobile phone.”
“It is increasingly clear that, when it comes to bridging the ‘digital divide’ between rich and poor, the mobile phone, not the personal computer, has the most potential.”
--
Mobile phones and development
Calling an end to poverty
Jul 7th 2005
From The Economist print edition
Mobile-phone firms have found a profitable way to help the poor help themselves
[Image] (Still Pictures)
ALL eyes are on what governments can do to end poverty, with aid, debt relief and trade top of the agenda at this week’s G8 summit. But what about the role that business can play--and, in particular, technology firms? It is increasingly clear that, when it comes to bridging the “digital divide” between rich and poor, the mobile phone, not the personal computer, has the most potential. “Emerging markets will be wireless-centric, not PC-centric,” says C. K. Prahalad, a management scholar and author of “The Fortune at the Bottom of the Pyramid”, a book that highlights the collective purchasing power of the world’s 4 billion poorest people and urges firms to try to profit from it.
Mobile phones have become indispensable in the rich world. But they are even more useful in the developing world, where the availability of other forms of communication--roads, postal systems or fixed-line phones--is often limited. Phones let fishermen and farmers check prices in different markets before selling produce, make it easier for people to find work, allow quick and easy transfers of funds and boost entrepreneurship. Phones can be shared by a village. Pre-paid calling plans reduce the need for a bank account or credit check. A recent study by London Business School found that, in a typical developing country, a rise of ten mobile phones per 100 people boosts GDP growth by 0.6 percentage points. Mobile phones are, in short, a classic example of technology that helps people help themselves.
But despite rapid subscriber growth in much of the developing world, only a small proportion of people--around 5% in both India and sub-Saharan Africa--have their own mobile phones. Why? The price of handsets is the “biggest obstacle” to broader adoption, says Alan Knott-Craig, boss of Vodacom, which runs networks in five African countries. Azmi Mikati of Investcom, which runs networks in Africa and the Middle East, estimates that the number of users would double in those markets if the cheapest handset cost $30 instead of $60.
Ringing the changes
Handset-makers earn most of their profits from fancy phones sold to consumers in rich countries, where on average a handset costs around $200 (before operator subsidies). But as markets have become saturated in the rich world, manufacturers have started to realise that their future growth depends on catering to the needs of developing nations. As a result, they have been working with operators to develop new extremely cheap handsets and to boost adoption in the poor world.
Several operators from developing countries teamed up earlier this year under the auspices of the GSM Association, which promotes the use of GSM, the world’s dominant mobile-phone standard. They invited the handset-makers to bid for a contract to supply up to 6m handsets for less than $40 each. The contract was won by Motorola. Delivery of handsets began in April. The low cost is not due to cross-subsidy from high-margin handsets or “corporate social responsibility” funding, insists David Taylor of Motorol
I moved back to India last year after spending 10 years in the US. I found that the cab drivers here have better mobile phones than most people in the US. I guess it has to do with monopolies and regulations..
"If you can get the upgraded colour version for only $30 anyway is there really a story here? "
Depends. Do you want to smack some evil businesses around for the next thirty minutes?
Indeed, what an amazing and insightful "news" story. It's not because of cell phone technology that cell phones are such a drag in the US, it's because of the cell phone "service" providers. Who would have thought.
You probably shouldn't click this.
I'm one of the people mentioned that don't like to tie myself into monthly contracts. The fact that a phone will make less profit for the phone companies should not make a difference as to whether it is sold here. I'm sure there are many people who just want a phone to be a phone.
/., the Register, and a few more online news sources before the mainstream media realizes they can't ignore it much longer and starts to cover the story (being careful of course to not step on the toes of any of their advertisers), getting the (usually watered-down) message out to the unwashed.
Crappy (for us, the 'consumers') corporate decisions like this happen every day, and we're going to need to speak up sooner or later if we want anything to change.
Right now, it takes a story on
These situations seem to require getting to that point before the companies will 'take a look at' their actions, Sony's DRM CD being the latest example. Your customers don't know what a rootkit is? They have a better idea now.
Making noise about these things is making a difference, however small it may be.
If down is up and right is left, that is the best phone in the world. Or at least the best looking.
Ugly, ugly phone. Holy cow.
You want to know why nice phones don't come to the US? It's because people want to hang onto these things until the last circuit burns out and they can't hear the person on the other end because the flames shooting out of the earpiece are too hot. Then they try to extend the life on the phones by only making calls while holding their head in a tank of water. When the phone finally stops making calls, the pry the fuckers open and try to build a morse code/edgar allen poe tap tap tapping machine. When the battery decays and starts dripping acid all over everything, the phone owner grabs a blanket and uses the device to send smoke signals.
The rate of turnover in devices is not high enough to justify importing constantly updated models.
from the end... "The color model, the C155, is available in the United States, sold by the prepaid wireless company TracFone online and through retail outlets such as Wal-Mart. For $29.98, you get the phone and the right to buy pay-as-you-go phone services. Telefonica MoviStar sells the C116 phone in Mexico and other Spanish-speaking countries."
me jumping with kites I make...
The idea is that people interested in having a simple phone want just that - a simple phone.
Monochrome display lengthens the battery life, colour screen shortens it. Simple.
I use a Palm Tungsten T PDA and wanted a basic bluetooth GSM phone that I could use to connect the Palm to the Internet. The best I found -- actually, the only basic phone I found -- was the Nokia 6310i. Basic black and white screen, basic keyboard, somewhat large compared to other phones, but IT WORKS. My 6310i is now over 3 years old and I've seen nothing on the Canadian market that looks like it. I have a great Palm PDA - why would I want a $500 colour phone discounted to $99 with a 3 year contract?
Half the articles seem to be trolls in and of themselves.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
1. Import the C113 and C113a handsets
2. ??????
3. PROFIT!!
I love humanity, it is people I hate
FTA: I got to see the C113 and C113a handsets in Barcelona. Very small and very cute. They work in nearly every country on the planet -- except for the United States. Our GSM phones use different frequencies."
Seems to me the problem is the fact that its not gonna work in US, not that there's a big arm blocking it away cuz its cheap. Who edited this anyway??
I love humanity, it is people I hate
Some people shouldn't be given complicated phones, like my parents as an example.
It's complete and utter feature overkill for them. They don't play the games, don't change the ringtones & don't know how to use anything besides the address book.
This phone would be perfect for my parents
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
While its true that there are some things that are available in other countries that aren't in the US (the VW Beetle was still made to early 70's spec in Mexico for decades after it went away elsewhere - to provide affordable vehicles) there are other factors to consider. The main one being that the average US consumer has more $$ to spend than the average consumer elsewhere in the world (there are, of course, small exceptions, but the total disposable income in such places is still tiny in comparison). Despite the moaning and groaning that goes on in regards to the US economy, we are head and shoulders above the rest of the world insofar as our economic might. Part of that is businesses taking a long look at what will be profitable and what won't, because despite some poster's comments that its all about the $$... it is. The whole point of being in business is not to make cool toys, but to stay in business by making money. Sure companies like Verizon and Tmobile leave a bad taste in your mouth when they sell you a locked phone, but the best way to make your objection known is to vote with your feet. Don't use their service, and convince others not to as well and make sure they give the right reason when they tell the provider why they are leaving. I also must say that I can't agree with one of the poster's coments about people using cell phones till they croak. Everyone I know has at least 3 or 4 old phones piling up in drawers because new plans with new providers typically come with new phones. In response to the fact that many other places have much cooler phones and seem to stay on the bleeding edge of technology: In places like Japan for example they simply don't have the room for all the technology we have. The multiple PCs per household, everyone and their dog having a laptop, etc. For many people elsewhere in the world their phones have to do double or triple duty as home pc, laptop and phone.
and isn't it great the way the profit motive works? There's tons of crap like this in the PC world. You can't buy an inkjet with easily (and properly) refillable cartridges, and the American counterparts print half as many pages before dying. There's little or no innovation in midrage ($100-$200) soundcards since too much too fast might kill the market for next years upgrades. And noone wants to sell you a decent video card for less than $200 dollars ever since 3dfx bought the farm. I'm sure you could find this crap going on outside the technology sector ( I hear it's a major problem in the drug industry ). I say get the gov't involved in combating this. Sure they'll muck things up pretty bad, but the way I see it the corps are screwing us all so bad hamstringing them a little couldn't hurt. Christ, at least put a stop the the landfill expanding nightmare that is inkjet printers.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
There are a large number of factors that go into the selection of handset models for both the U.S. post-paid and pre-paid markets: features, cost, size, manufacturer support, durability, radio quality, and audio quality among them.
/. users may already know exactly what data services they need/want because they have fearlessly tried them, explored every menu of their phones, and come to a good conclusion as to what is worth paying for. Many people haven't. They only discover a new feature because they see some geeky person use it in a cool way that they'd never imagined, and say "I wish my phone could do that." To which the TruGeek replies. "That's a Nokia 6682. It can take even better pictures than this and send them right to your Inbox. Let me show you how." It may sound like paternalism to sell people phones with more features than they currently think they need, but it's not. It's just good marketing.
Major carriers have an allotted sum that they can contribute to a person's first handset based on their one-year contract commitment. People in the handset selection teams for these companies choose the phones with the best feature set for that amount of money. There is no bonus for selecting a phone that is cheaper than this amount.
Less expensive phones sometimes get that way by choosing inferior components, and antenna designs. But not always. The only way to know whether a phone was cheaper due to clever engineering or cheap components is to completely reverse engineer the design with a every competent team of engineers, or deploy thousands of them and carefully watch the complaints.
The drive for Zoolanderesque micro phone sizes is over. There is such a thing as too small and consumers have figured this out.
Though there is certainly some deviation from the post-paid phone standards for the pre-paid phones each new model has a cost in customer care training time and handset replacement programs.
There is a push to make more data services available and some favoritism is shown to those handsets that can offer that content.
When you combine these factors you have a recipe for "I told you so's" The article's author didn't find the buttons too small on this phone (though many would), and where he was, the radio was adequate (though in tiny phones, penetrating the human hand is a definite problem). This phone will never let him "discover" the joys of sending cool pictures at the zoo to his grandkids e-mail boxes (which he may already do with with Coolpix 8800).
In summary. Geeksight is 20/20. We can mathematically determine that there is a slot for this in the American market, but marketing is stranger than chaos theory. And I would like to suggest that the article's author, go bid on the one for sale on ebay (right now AU $20) put his SIM in it. It doesn't get much cheaper than that, and then he could leave the article writing on handset marketing to people with a statistical sample > 1.
[disclaimer: I am a Treo650 fanboy who still has his T68 on the charger]
...where the article mentions that Motorola manufactures that model of phone with the US frequencies, and the author got one and uses it daily. Hmm.
Personally, I want to tell Ma'Bell to take her phone and shove it where the sone don't shine. Give me something that I can hack and create my own programs on instead of this bubblegum mainstream crap anyday!
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
I have a Nokia 6610, and while I don't know if the interface is the same, here's what you do. First of all, note as you scroll through your phone list some entries will show a tiny SIM card icon in the upper-right corner of the screen telling you the contact is stored on the card. Move all other entries off the internal memory to the SIM. On my SIM, names cannot be longer than 13 characters. My phone always saved the contact on the SIM when I first got it, but if I wrote a contact's name longer than the limit it would get saved automatically on the internal memory instead. Also, your SIM may not support email address or screename saving for contacts.
Now to disable the internal memory...
There. Now all new phone book entries will be stored on the SIM card.
It seems as though GSM is a step in the right direction because T-Mobile, Cingular, and ATT branded phones are basically interchangeable.
Except T-Mobile generally stocks the European models of handsets, which have 900mhz band instead of 850mhz. So a T-Mobile phone usually does not include the right radio transmitter to work on Cingular. This is why T-Mobile stocked the Sony-Ericsson T610, but Cingular had the T616. But the Cingular phones have 850mhz and 1900mhz so they can be used on T-Mobile.
This phone would be perfect for my parents
Same here, and they wouldn't even use the address book.
I live in Australia and I've had my current mobile phone (GSM) for over three years. It's a Nokia 2100. It too also has 'only' a monochrome screen, and can only do the most necessary of things such as receive and make calls and SMS. It doesn't do Bluetooth, it doesn't have a camera, it doesn't have WAP, it doesn't do the US GSM frequency and it doesn't fallback onto analog. It's a simple GSM phone. And that's the way I like it.
The phone is targeted for emerging markets, where people don't like to tie themselves into monthly contracts, and with little value proposition presents little interest to US wireless operators.
The wireless operators won't tell you this - for obvious reasons - but you're absolutely NOT required to purchase your phone from them. The bottom line is that you can aquire an unlocked, factory-direct phone from places like eXpansys. After that, simply call the carrier to do an ESN swap or in the case of GSM place the SIM in the new phone.
The trick, of course, is knowing the technology your carrier supports. I don't expect that to be an issue for this crowd.
Right now the US is what they call the "high end" market. Where corporations try and herd them in like cattle, and nail it to them when they're not expecting. However, what these companies don't know is that while the economic freedom and the infrastructure of the US economy is very nice, the health of the US dollar as a currency is very very very bad.
Between a crashing housing market, and over extended debt in the US economic system, and too much US currency (liquitidy) floating arround overseas, and 270 trillion with a T in derivatives contracts out there (17 trillion of which are interest rate related and doomed to fail).
Between all these, the US economy is pretty much pre-destined to fall of a hyperinflationary debt cliff (and will likely take Japan and Europe with it). When that happens, you can better believe that all the high end crap that they are trying to reem down everybodys throat will get scrapped for the stuff where they can make up profit on volume.
This is one of those great examples why anti-competitive markets are a bad idea. Anyone should be able to buy any wireless phone and hook it up to any wireless network.
Standards are the backbone of competition and they keep consumer options open.
Europe understood this and built a standards based system that works great. Here in the US, they allowed the companies to innovate freely including allowing providers to create "exclusive" phones and design in artificial barriers that wouldn't allow you to take your "Sprint" branded Sanyo phone and use it on a Verizon network, regardless of weather the phone was capable. This is a purely anti-competitive move and is illegal under US law. I'm surprised these companies are getting away with it.
The contract system they use is also anti-competitive. It's a way for companies to charge different prices to different people (incentives for switching from competitors, etc) and make the prices confusing enough to make comparison shopping difficult. Imagine if the grocery store you shopped at required long-term food buying plans and different prices for you if you bought more stuff. Part of competing fairly is everyone gets the same prices. We seem to have forgotten that.
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and the other half is just dupes.
In India, calls are $0.02/min, monthly bills and 144k 'net connections at less than voice rates.
The downside: customer call centers' based in India who can't fix any problems when you call them.
What's annoying is that it is getting impossible to find a decent PHONE. I don't want a camera, I don't want a web access device, I don't want an MP3 player. What I do want is a SMALL PHONE. It seems like any basic phone without gimmicks is three times the size of a RAZR, which makes no sense whatsoever.
All it does is cause headaches for those of us who work in secure environments and have to choose between carrying a walkie-talkie in our pocket looking like we have a tumor, or else we have to leave our compact phone at the security desk. Does ANYONE make a tiny clamshell phone that just, you know, makes phone calls and receives them?
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
The problem is it's offered by Tracfone, which puts highly-customized firmware on their phones, making them unusable with another GSM provider. You may be able to flash to generic firmware, but that's a hassle.
No contract cell phones (your billed like a utility, its not prepay) companies are just emerging in the USA and are relatively unheard of. I am familiar with two from my travel to South Florida and they are MetroPCS that has a flat rate of $40 dollars per month for unlimited calling and use they utilize their own network. The other one is PowerNetGlobal(they are national) and they utilize Sprint's Network and you can stop service any time you feel like and resume the service for $15 dollar reactivation. Great if you have an old sprint phone (for powernet, they even use the sprint cell phone manual in the packaging of their phones) because it uses the same network or if you only need your phone seasonally because of travel but do not like the significant overcharging for a calling area that is highly regional that prepay offers.
Google search no contract and check out which companies are local to you and show the cell phone companies you like it cheap here also!
Insert Witty Remark Here ===>____________________________
I got a Motorola V551 from Cingular, and a cheap USB Bluetooth adapter. Works great. I can transfer ringtones as MP3 files to the phone, and transfer photos as JPEGs back. iSync on Mac OS X syncs it with my Address Book and iCal, which kicks ass.
I would not recommend this specific phone to any serious geek, because apparently it cannot run network applications such as an SSH client or a decent web browser. It does include a WAP browser, and it can check e-mail over SSL-encrypted IMAP (or a variety of other things); unfortunately it doesn't like my SSL certificate, but I'll be getting a different one when this one expires anyway.
My point is, you DON'T have to pay somebody for ring tones and downloading pictures, if you get a phone that doesn't completely suck ass.
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$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
I put off getting a cell phone until December 2004 because I didn't feel I needed one. I still don't use it that often.
The salesman seemed confused by the fact that I didn't want a camera phone, and having a speakerphone was more important. If I was going to get a new phone today, I'd want a video phone even less. I want a phone, just a phone, and nothing but a phone (so help me $DIETY), and I'm sure I'm not alone, even in the U.S.
Obviously, the phone carriers don't care that people like me exist in the U.S.
yeah, I am with you on this, but they don't want our business because we are cheap, sensible people. They want 13 yr old girls and wiggers, image aware tryhards, sales people and the guys from marketing (first agaist the wall). They want people that want to annoy guys like us by leaving their phone on the desk and ringing at full volume while they are in a meeting. Those people spend money on shit like ring tones, we dont. We go off the websites find the midi to Dooms E1M1 and make it our ringtone because its all low notes.
Address book???
What about even *reading* and SMS, let alone realising it's *your* phone that is ringing before it rings-out (the 2nd time)..
If it doesnt have something to do with bringing home milk or calling the automobile club then its too fancy...
Most people I know use Internet based carriers, where all interaction with the carrier is through a web page. You can use any phone with their service. There is no subscription, you have an account where you can add money as you like, and you can phone as long as there is money on the account. They are, by far, the cheapest carriers, and has won "best service" awards multiple times.
Cash cards are also popular, especially among children. You buy a card, enter a number on the card on your phone, and can not talk for the amount of money the card costed. No subscription or Internet connection required, but they are somewhat expensive.
There are also subscription based sevices. They have very complex price structures, mostly to make their price impossible to compare with the alternatives. The subscription based services are usually sold with a phone that is bound to the carrier in question for six months. After the six months, the carrier is legally bound to tell you how to unlock it. You can also unlock it for US$ 15 at small shops that are everywhere. This is quite legal, but you still have to pay 6 month subscription fee. Often the rebate you get is higher than the price of six month subscription.
And this is not a developing market. It is a mature market that has benefitted from regulation.
Well, since everything else is so darn cheap in USA compared to many EU-countries, shouldn't we just let the EU and the rest of the world have this one?
One word, virginmobile. They seem to be the least evil of all cell phone companies... especially if you hardly use your phone (the standard plan will suck you dry if you do talk alot). I love it, I don't need to use my minutes every month, they never expire (assuming i buy $15 of airtime every 3 months, which is automatically billed anyway).
Disclaimer: I don't work for or have any affiliation with virgin mobile, just a happy customer.
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
I hear ya... You have to look through the provider's eyes though: What makes more money? Basic, simple cell service that's awesome, or sub-par cell service with overpriced, flashy extras that suckers (a.k.a. most Americans) will want to drool then swoon over?
It's pitiful, I know. But you have to remember that people with technological common sense are a small minority in the US. =(
I have a Virgin phone with a pay as you go plan that in theory could be as low as $15 every three months - naturally it's not quite that low but probably only $30 every three months.
All I would ask for in addition to that plan is a Bluetooth phone and some kind of data plan. Heck, it could cost ten cents a minute for data access and that would be totally fine, just enough to fetch and send email while out and about.
I also do not need color screen or a camera. I just what a phone to bring me data connectivity... I may look into getting the phone you mentioned even though I'd have to pay a lot more for a plan to support it.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Oops, I forgot to include that you can get no frills phones without the camera and all that crap.
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
I have a RAZR V3. It can do that, shoot photos (which I use frequently), email (which I use frequently), browse the web (which I don't use frequently anymore, but only because it is slow... faster web access I would use all of the time), play games, play various ringtones and music and shoot video (which eats too much RAM, but I would use if it didn't). I can loop my laptop through to Internet access as well, if I so please (and I would, were it faster).
All of those things that Krakow says he doesn't want, I do, and not only out of some consumerist need to buy the best of everything, because I genuinely use the features. If a phone with more features is thrown into my contract, and I'm stuck getting a contract anyway, I'm not sure that I would want to get the cheaper alternative... but that's just me.
Just a tip. When somebody does that in my environment, I simply stand up, go to the phone and turn it off. Oh, and, no, I won't tell the person I turned it off, nor that he/she had a call.
If that person doesn't notice the phone is off, then it's their problem... not mine. Revenge is sweet.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Lowell Massachusetts (north of Boston) in the Wannalancet Mills building is where BCGI set up nationwide cell phone customer service. Service was contracted out, which meant that a worker would have to answer the phone differently depending on where the caller was from. (pretent to be in California, but really be in Massachusetts)
They hired college students.
Probably I spelled Wannalancet wrongly.
I take it that the camara is prohibited where you work. Drill it out. Fill the hole with epoxy, a wad of foil so that the security guard will believe you, and more epoxy.
If this is the will of the almighty Invisible Hand of the Market, who are we to question??
LOL.
Seriously, would any of you "capitalists" care to explain in real terms why this (increasingly prevalent) type of manoeuvre is good for the market, consumer or the society at large.
Ok, so that's cool that now people notice the bad hardware available here. Now let's hope it'll move on to the next stage: the SHITTY SERVICES! Hell, why would I have to pay to RECEIVE a phone call? In every other country on the globe you pay only when you call! Might be a tad more expensive, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper in the long run. The US unfortunately has a history of not cracking down on monopolies when it should, and the limitations for cell phone service here are just insane. That's why I vote with my wallet: I refuse to get a cellphone. It's so simple really. Just abandon cell phones. It'll probably result in a hell of a lot less traffic accidents anyway! And not paying the companies will force them to re-evaluate what they're thinking.
My $0.02 worth of opinion.
---- I am certain of only one thing : I know nothing else.
There's always the Treo 650.
It runs most PalmOS apps just fine, comes with the USB cable standard, and can be used as a bluetooth modem. It's 320x320 screen is good enough to run an SSH client on, and with small fonts can even run some ncurses apps.
It's not huge or 10 pounds, unlike a lot of those windows smartphones, and it's not crippled to only run signed applications either. It's also shaped like a phone, not an eraser or brick.
The biggest downside seems to be the price.
- may/may not have EDGE, GPRS etc. I might rather check my e-mail over SMS.
All this for less than $150OT, but always near the topic in this pedantic place. Your sig has been informative to me. I hate to feed grammar trolls, but up until now I have always used its and it's backwards. I thought I knew the rule and I was wrong. I looked it up, and I have been enlightened. It's still a stupid rule, and I don't agree with it, but at least I know the convention now. Thanks for making me feel stupid. On a completely unrelated side note, the United States is probably too geographically large and sparsely populated in great expanses of land for a small mobile carrier to compete on infrastructure with the big boys. We have a well entrenched oligopoly as any mobile phone customer support representative will let you know. First hand experience has shown me that they really don't care if the customers feel they are treated unfairly. Where else are they going to get a mobile phone without a 2 year contract? I quote: "Go ahead and look. You'll be back." As long as there are Americans willing to pay $2.99 per ringtone, we will never see a cheap mobile telephone for the masses.
Waiting for ad.doubleclick.net...
Au contraire, the phone companies understand their customers all too well! You are just not their average customer. Their target demographic is a twenty-something (or even a teenie) who's far more interested in flash and glam than in solid construction, long-lasting performance, and a basic feature set. Nor does s/he want to keep that phone for more than a year before replacing it with the next new thing either. The phone companies know this, so that's who they pander to -- not to you, my stolid, counter-current swimming, engineer friend.
You are not alone
licet differant, aequabitur
Capitalism is neat. It gives consumers choice.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Well, I had the Motorola C100 for a couple yrs around( 1999-2000), before I moved out of the US. I got it from T-mobile as was really pleased with the compact size, long battery life and generally quality of the phone. T-mobile also gave me the unlock code for it when I called them.
In fact, I paid $100 initially for the phone (bought it from Amazon) with a 1yr contract from T-mobile, and T-mobile sent me $250 in rebate checks. So I actually got a free phone, and the equivalent of 4 months of service free for signing a 1 yr contract.
Sigura Non Grata
Would the C155 phone work with Cingular and T Mobile? Or is it locked to only work with TracFone?
In the US you have to *PAY* to *RECEIVE* mobile phone calls!
... crazy.
That's just
I hear that the receiver of an SMS has to pay to receive text messages too - is this true?
May Peace Prevail On Earth
Those cheap Motorola phones are available in my country, but I've never seen anyone use one yet. Everyone wants phones with games, camera, and MP3. We have a huge gray market selling phones that are not officially imported by the phone companies. I don't even know why the phone companies bother to sell basic phones here. They should just send all the basic phones to the US where people want them, and bring those really good phones that no one in the US wants here.
"I couldn't wait to slip my SIM card inside and see what it could do. "
;-)
Filth! Nothing but poisonous fuel for a twisted mind.
+del.icio.us ++dugg
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
Sorry, but the correct answer is a "Louisville Slugger". When my brother joined the army a couple years ago, some asshat decide he should take his cellphone with him to BT. Drill Sergent took this guy's phone and gave it the Babe Ruth treatment. You can learn alot from the military.
The alternative is to pick up one of those portable signal jammerers like in V for Vendetta.
Personally, I like the Army method.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
It isn't, simply. Thing is real pure capitalism is just as utopian as pure communism (only more evil in its nature, weaker ones get destroyed). The problem is these are economy systems and some people get blindfolded when talking which one is good and which one is evil, while forgetting the underlying political systems - basically totalitarism and democracy.
Communism by all means is socially more advanced, more human-friendly and so on, capitalism is the law of the jungle, kill or get killed. The problem is that politics trumps economy and totalitarian communism is worse than democratic capitalism. Of course both are better than totalitarian capitalism ('banana republics') and we're yet to see a country with real democratic communism to happen. (Sweden and Switzerland are pretty close though.)
Now all the systems are suspectible to corruption. The problem with communism is that it's very vulnerable in that matter. Humans by nature are lazy thieves, so communism without safeguards against that is doomed to fail, and the safeguards usually mean totalitarism, making it a hell to live in. Communism gets corrupted by semi-totalitarian powers like huge monopoles. Price fixing, secret arguments, cutting the customers off cheaper and better goods, that's all corruption of capitalist system. The problem at hand though is, that while mostly everyone saw how bad is the corruption of communism in Eastern Bloc (blaming it on ideas of communism though, not on totalitarian rule), nobody seems to see the depth of corruption of the market and the failure of democracy in the US. Instead of really ELECTING your leader, you're given a choice between two almost equal evils, you can choose to shoot your left or right foot, or if you don't vote, leave the shooting of your feet to someone else. The powers elected do nothing to fix the current corruption of market (because it profits them) and maintain the status quo, handing the power to each other, mock-fighting and giving the masses ilusion of choice.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
That guy is right.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
The salesman seemed confused by the fact that I didn't want a camera phone, and having a speakerphone was more important. If I was going to get a new phone today, I'd want a video phone even less. I want a phone, just a phone, and nothing but a phone (so help me $DIETY), and I'm sure I'm not alone, even in the U.S.
I have an ancient Audiovox trimode 9000 phone. It gets service ANYWHERE service is available. It has enough memory to remember all my phone numbers, it's rugged enough to survive years of beating at my hip, and it works today, some 5 years later, with no degredation of service except battery life. (I bought a new battery for it a year or so ago, and the new battery had WORSE life than the original!) The battery now gives me about 1 or 2 hours of talk time per day before going caput, and about 2 days of time between charges before giving up altogethe if I don't talk much.
I wish I could find a new battery for this phone that was worth a darn, because this phone is just plain AWESOME. It just works, day in and day out, it gets GREAT reception (I can't tell you how many times I've confused sombody by using my phone in an area with "no service") includes GPS for 911 calls, text messages just *fine* thank you, enough ring tones to be able to tell whose phone that's ringing, with enough great audio quality and reception to be great. (tri-mode means you get service even when all that's available is some analog tower from 1979 at some campground in lower WTF by the lake - you won't get any service at all with newer "all digital" phones)
Where are the batteries? I wish cell phones had standardized batteries! I don't give a flying hoot about having a "new" phone, I want *this** phone! I would happily pay $50-$100 to get this phone refurbished, with batteries that gave 3-4 days of life (with talking) like it use to!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
thanks
http://www.learnenglish.de/grammar/casepossgen.htm
9
http://www.bartleby.com/64/82.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe_%28mark%2
Well, I suppose the story is this:
1. People will defend the corporations in the US, saying that it is a free market and the businesses should decide what they want and don't want to sell and for how much.
2. Others will point out that theoretically why a free market is a good thing is that, if there is a way to make a buck off of it, someone would sell it in the US, even if it reduces the profit margins of the market as a whole. In other words, if the "free" market operated as advertised, some provider would undercut his compeditors and sell the cheap phone in order to grab a larger market share, even if it reduced the profit margin on their low end line some. Thus, it would give them more profits, but at a smaller margin.
This indicates a possibility that either:
A) The market is actually controlled, probably through collusion.
and/or
B) The "free market" economic system as practiced in the US is flawed.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Grammar Gram"mar, v. i. ;-)
To discourse according to the rules of grammar; to use
grammar. Obs. --Beau. & Fl.
1913 Webster Sorry
My 6310i is now over 3 years old and I've seen nothing on the Canadian market that looks like it. I have a great Palm PDA - why would I want a $500 colour phone discounted to $99 with a 3 year contract?
Why indeed? These smartphones are full of features that you either never use or UI is to basic allow you to be able to use them properly. I prefer a PDA so I settled for a combination PDA/GSM-phone, it's a bit big for a GSM phone, getting a bluetooth headset helps but it's not ideal. One other advantage is that the PDA-phone makes up for it's size by virtue of the fact that I now have one less item to carry around and worry about that I may forget/misplace it..
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I own one of those (bought it 15 months ago) and I don't like it very much. Main reason: The buttons are hard to press.
"The apostrophe in it's marks a contraction of it is or it has. The possessive its has no apostrophe."
Same goes viceverse. There are certain phones that never reach the market outside US since they are "operator phones". Danger Inc's Hiptop would be one example of them...
yush
I just recently moved from Mexico to Australia, and while Mexican market usually follows US-type practices it's underlying network is based in european standards. At Mexico I had a simple GSM mobile locked to the network on a plan that charged me the equivalent to $40USD a month for 100 minutes off-peak hours (that is, in the blackest of night) and some 50 on peak hours. It worked rather well and I used it in USA and Mexico, and then came to Oz. Here I paid $40AUD to unlock it, and bought a prepaid but later it broke.
Then I went ahead and locked myself into another two year contract and now I have a kick as 3G cell that with video call capabilities, 2MP photos, MP3 so I can use a 1GB mini-SD card to listen at work, and serves coffe in the morning. And it CAME WITH THE USB cable, software, and a bucketload of nifty applications including a midi-to-polytone converter and some utility to send SMS from the laptop while the phone is attached. And for the same $40AUD I also get unlimited acces to email so now that I've redirected gmail to it I can stay in touch all day. I know it sounds like paid insert from the company (which I wont' name but it's cool) but at first I couldn't belive how much better options they have around here both in pricing and devices.
+R
+Raider of the lost BBS
It seems to me that US and Canadian providers are far more interested in selling fancy phones for anyone who wants a monthly plan cell phone.
All I've ever demanded of my phone is to dial, store address book, does SMS well, and have good reception. Not all this MP3 playback, or digital camera crap. Heck, the summary of the article alone said that cellphone manufacturers are more than capable and willing to make cellphones that does cellphone functions well. This is in line with UNIX functionality - have a bunch of tools that are good at what it does, and combine them as necessary. I carry my cellphone and my iPod nano normally - the nano excels at music playback, while the cellphone is good at voice and SMS (except that motorola's cell phone OS is a bit laggy and SMS dictionary isn't as good as Nokia's) Had I got this intense need of taking pictures, my digital camera would be in my jacket pocket, or I would've spent the money, get a DSLR, and carry that around.
Two of my Asian high school friends in a recent reunion-of-sorts carried these monstrous Nokia cellphones that doubles as a 2MP digital camera. The thing is bulky, and the interface isn't particularly adept at calling out. They're more like cameras with cell phone capabilities grafted on. I could never understand this everything-and-the-kitchen-sink mentality.
Perhaps the providers are making money with MP3 ringtones, and MMS picture data that they're more than willing to push these phones to keep the money going. But then if you're taking 2MP pictures, you're more than likely going to use the bluetooth feature on the phone to take the pictures off than paying the provider money to transfer them.
I live in the caribbean, and the local wireless provider was recently giving out a similar phone (the C115) for free when you sign up for a pre-paid account, so I've been using one for about 6 months.
Let me tell you that there is a reason this phone is so cheap: it has the worst menus of any phone I've ever seen. It takes forever just to figure out how to change the ring tone. There are all sorts of sub-menus which you have to find to do much of anything, but they are not intuitive at all. Looking back, I would gladly pay a little more for a more usable phone.
I don't know what this guy is thinking; there are plenty of cheap (even free with a contract) phones in the US.
I live in the Philippines. Prepaid is the way most people go here. Phones are all GSM and will work on any network - just switch the SIM.
People will literally switch carriers and phone numbers just to get 300 free text messages for switching (about $6 worth of service.)
Just buy the C155, it is almost identical - with a colour screen, that is all.
C155 on motorola's site
Not as cheap as the C115/C116/C117, but not much different. They were selling them here in UK for £10 after christmas. (not on contract)
When i wanted a second phone other than my blackberry, I chose this one. Great design!
Out of curiosity, did anyone actually take a look at the story?
A couple of the statements quoted in the Slashdot excerpt don't actually appear in the MSNBC article. While the article does point out that the phone is geared towards disadvantaged markets, there is no comment made that it's being kept out of the U.S. to pad the profit margins of American GSM carriers.
Is this Slashdot fearmongering, or was the MSNBC story edited to appease the sensitivities of the corporate master's advertisers?
Last year I had a C115 (IIRC) phone with T-Mobile.
I got it as a temporary solution.
I paid £20 for it on Amazon, and it included £10 free airtime and 1000 texts (before a certain date though). It was also supplied unlocked by default.
It worked very well, it was basic, but it was solid. It's the phone I take abroad still, because I don't want my fancy A1000 phone being stolen like my old Nokia 6230 was.
I might want one of these. I just sent an SMS with my new SIEMENS S65 Uberphone ... and the firmware of PIECE OF SHIT JUST CRASHED ON ME AGAIN... I'm sorry but I just don't want to worry about buying a cable so I can "upgrade" to the latest firmware patches just so I can use the phone.
BTW Now I can even get it to crash trying to delete a certain SMS in the INBOX. What a WORTHLESS PIEC EOF SHIT.
What is this? Here's a phone article, so I'm going to whine about how you can't get a basic phone any more?
Go get yourself a Nokia 1100 (http://www.nokiausa.com/phones/1100/).
You can then stop polluting stories about phones with this phone of straw.
Peter
I'm really chuffed with my SLVR. It is fairly basic in functionality (which I like) but most importantly it's beautifully slim and a more mature phone. To me, far too many phones are becoming like the Wasp T12 Special, appealing to younger generations who like to impress each other with the sheer volume of gadgets/crap on their handsets. Who really needs a program to compose" 'music' on their phones?
To me, less is more. I do like a handset to have a smart appearance, however, and the C116 just doesn't do it for me...
http://www.frenchgeek.com/
Sigh ... sure, they think they understand.
Actually, if they really understood all of their customers, we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we now?
In truth, the greedy, shallow, self serving and incompetent people in most positions of power understand very little about service to others.
Try buying a Nokia 770 in the f*cking Poland!
They're right. If you think otherwise, be explicit. You, on the other hand, can't spell "grammar".
"but then I got someone in customer support that wasn't a jobsworth."
He was not a jobsworth. He was more like a dickwad.
Arrogant as it is to have grammer instructions in one's sig, must they be wrong, too?
Um, I don't think it is arrogant to have correct grammar instructions in one's sig... OTOH it is rather arrogant to correct something that isn't wrong.
Mayhaps I should change my sig to my pet grammatical peeve:
you're = = contraction of you and are
your = = possessive of you
eg: "Didn't you say that you're off to your parents' house?"
-dean
-----------------------
hey, well, its just my $0.02us
"Verizon Wireless does. Just ask them nicely."
Does locking or unlocking do any good on Verizon Wireless? Their phones only work on their network.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I can too spell grammar, but I didn't that time!
So... of your three references, the first can't spell genitive, the first and second don't mention "its" vs "it's", and the third agrees with the poster you're criticising... perhaps not very convincing ;-)
Need to type accents and special characters in Windows? Use FrKeys
Last winter I bought Siemens S66 and the cheapest $29.99 local plan from Cingular. I had to go to Europe for summer and wanted to use the phone there. The phone was advertised as business class tri-band GSM phone that would work worldwide. That's why I bought it since I thought I would use it while I am in Europe. When I got to Europe and tried to use SIM card from another carrier the phone would not take it and was asking for a unlock code. I e-mailed Cingular and asked for the code. They e-mailed me the unlock code - it didn't work. I e-mailed them again telling the code did not work. Cingular told me that the code would not work unless I upgrade to another (more expensive) plan. I didn't want to do that since the whole point was to use it with European SIM since their rates were much cheaper. The roaming feature worked though, but Cingular international rates are ridiculous!
So, I went to the guys who were "specialists" in unlocking phones from other countries. They checked the serial number on the phone (under the battery) and immediately told me that my phone (Siemens S66) could not be unlocked since it was made for U.S. market; the same European phone is Siemens S65, not S66.
My solution was to buy a cheap phone and use it with SIM card from European carrier since I did not have to sign any contracts. Also, it was cheaper than upgrading my Cingular plan in order to be able to use my Cingular phone with European SIM card.
At least, I've only seen scuttlemonkey admit to it, that is ... it's possible the other editors agree, as well.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=160477&cid=135 01472
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
SDer1: I just posted!
SDer2: Shutup, you called me 3 minutes ago!
And now we secretly find the real reason slashdot only lets you post every three minutes.
Pete/Petri "damn, my chainsaw is clogged with 1's and 0's again." --clyde
As far as that goes, I still think the entire cellphone industry is a scam.
Case in point: Friend calls me long distance from her cell, she gets dinged with longdistance charges. I call her, and both her AND me get dinged with longdistance charges. (and this happens with both cell companies she's been with over the past few years)
On top of that, even when I'm calling (and I've got a very good long distance plan. First 500 mins a month free, and the rest for dirt cheap) they still charge her her normal longdistance while draning my minutes at the same time. (And I'm on a landline, to boot)
Now, I have no objection to the longdistance getting paid by someone at one end of the conversation or the other, but I refuse to believe that somehow going longdistance from a landline to a cell phone is twice as expensive as going from a cell phone to the landline.
It more or less guarantees that I won't be getting a cell phone anytime soon. At the absolute least, not untill cellphones are subject to the same laws and regulations (and standards) as the regular phone industry, which doesn't get to double charge. (I am quite sure they would if they could)
Z
And get charged for Theft and Destruction of Private Property. Hope you like prison.
Right now I use a Kyocera SE44 slider. Tiny phone, tiny screen. Works great, though. The buttons are too small for my fat fingers and the screen is getting a little hard for my presbyopic eyes to see, but it works until the current contract's up.
;-)
;-)
But - I'm closer to 50 than 40 (or even 45) and have been a professional geek most of my adult life. At this point in my life I want *simple* technology that works.
Last May I kicked my cable TV provider to the curb and got a satellite dish. Got two TVs and two computers wired up for the price I was paying coughcomcastcough for a a two-tv digital cable setup (had analog-only to the computers). Plus, I got this really cool DVR
That same month I told the local phone company to take a hike, ported our home number to the spousal unit's cell and got a cell phone for myself. Since only about ten people have the number to my phone, interruptions have decreased significantly.
Last fall when my mother-in-law's laptop died (second HD failure) I took her down to the Apple store and she bought an iMac. She's almost 80 years old and can surf the web, do email and whatever alse she needs to do with a minimum of fuss. Once I got the iMac connected to her wireless network she *never* called me again for technical support. I'm so impressed I'm getting ready to buy an iMac for me. Bye Bye, Microsoft
But I digress.
As I continue to try to simplify my life (which is what technology's supposed to do, ain't it?) all I want is a phone that *makes phone calls*, has an address book that I can synchronize with my computer and doesn't play games, MP3s, support polyphonic ringtones, have a camera (and especially not a flash - I own a digital camera, honest) and so on.
Of course, if you looked up 'curmudgeon' in the dictionary you'd see my picture, but the older I get the *less* impressed I am with devices that can do everything.
But can't do any of them well. Can I have just a phone, please?
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
I like my KX414. It's a basic tri-mode candybar phone with good reception. The interface is a very simple and self-explanatory menu system.
The phone is streamlined so it fits well in a pocket.
My previous 2325 was also good. Kyocera makes good phones for someone who just wants a phone.
Imagine that. Wanting their phone to act like a phone. They sound like perfectly intelligent people to me...
If Amazon is doing a rebate rip-off with you, report it: Rebate Roulette.
If Amazon promised a rebate and is trying not to give it to you, that's fraud and theft. Consider very carefully whether you should do business with them in the future.
What you can do to get your rebate (Warning, some of this exposes ugly behavior.):
Use the "F" word: Fraud. Every time an employee quits, it costs the rebate company a lot to hire and train someone new. Minimum wage people don't like to think they are helping break the law. Ask the employee how she or he can justify working for a dishonest company. Tell the employee he or she has the worst job in the world.
Call the manager of the store where you bought the rebate item. Use the "F" word again. Managers have a special telephone number. The rebate company will listen to them. Store managers don't like the word fraud applied to their store; that could cost them hundreds of thousands, if the word gets around. If you don't get satisfaction from the store manager, get his or her name and call the store's main office. The people who work in main offices don't want fraud calls; and they definitely don't like fraud calls in which the name of a store manager is mentioned.
Never let them steal from you. If you ever accept that once, they will know they can do it again. Remember, there are a limited number of rebate companies, and they keep databases on those who apply for rebates. Don't allow yourself to become a known easy target.
Apparently almost all rebate companies are involved in fraud, either for their own profit, or pre-arranged with manufacturers. They try to concentrate on the customers that will accept excuses. The stores will tell you they know nothing about the fraud, but that is not true; they know very well.
Be sure to tell the rebate company that you will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, and with your state's consumer fraud department, and do it. Tell the store that sold the rebate item the same thing, and do it.
Note that it is usually difficult to know the name of the rebate company. I talked with one Parago employee about the my experiences with the company for a long time before the employee verified the name of the company for which he worked. Parago operates Rebates HQ. I'm not the only one to have trouble with Parago; read this amazingly ugly story: Parago Rebate Gripes Keep on Coming.
Stay away from stores that hate their customers. My experience with Best Buy has been very negative.
Stay away from stores that offer big rebates on items that have defects that aren't obvious.
It has been my experience that Netgear is by far the worst in failing to send rebates. We have had bad experiences with Netgear equipment being buggy, too. Maybe there are companies who can only stay in business because they fail to sent rebates.
Always be kind and gentle with rebate company employees, but very firm. Remember, the employee is not getting any of the stolen money.
Always keep copies of everything you sent when you apply for a rebate. The rebate companies will exploit any weakness they find.
Remember, if you let them steal from you once, you will be in the database as someone who accepts abuse.
I got a Sony laptop rebate 1 1/2 years after it was denied. I would never buy anything from Sony again, of course, even though I eventually got the rebate. Generally, companies that are abusive in one way are abusive in others. Generally, abuse is part of the corporate culture.
In my opinion, this is part of a general social breakdown. The United States government
Anyone heard of it? Or Google? Type "unlocked GSM phone" into Google and you will find myriads of sites who would love to sell you a GSM phone, including this one, which is not, btw, nearly as great as the author thinks, there are tons of better phones which are just as simple, cheap, and reliable. Also, it won't be locked to your (and my) crappy provider.
Just because the phone isn't on the (very) short list of phones locked and stripped of features by a US wireless provider doesn't mean you can't get it in the US. In most larger cities, you can even buy them from independent stores. With GSM you just pop in your SIM card and away you go. Just make sure to buy one which supports 850/1900 if you're in the US. Much of Cingular runs on 1900, but there are areas that only use 850.
THE MAGIC WORDS ARE SQUEAMISH OSSIFRAGE
Here is Parago's Better Business Bureau information: Parago BBB info.
Rebate companies use the mail to accomplish their fraud. Here's how to complain to the U.S. Post Office: Mail Fraud Complaint Form.
I used to have a regular phone and a regular Verizon contract. It was my first mobile phone.
What I found out during the 2 year contract was that I barely use a mobile. The coverage at my house stinks bad enough that I can't drop my landline anyway.
Now I have a Virgin Mobile phone. The phone cost something like $20, and I only need to pump $5/month into it which buys $0.25/min time (reduces to $0.10/min after 10 minutes). Even at that, my balance creeps up every month; I don't even use $5/month.
I now use that info when someone tries to sell me a mobile plan with hundreds of minutes/month; over the last 3 years, my average use has been about 8 minutes per month.
However, I do realize that the market for users like me is very small; if it weren't for teenagers and poor people to sell to, these services wouldn't exist at all for those of us who could afford a bigger phone & contract but don't really want it.
...that the U.S. is under "soft" corporate control. We play at how the government has too much power, but does it really have any power at all? Apparently not. The only people with any real power here are the corporations. They say "jump"! The government and lawmakers say, "How high and should I lube up too"?!! "Too cheap" is a ridiculous reason for not seeling something in the U.S. Why on earth should corporations be able to dictate whether or not people in a geographic region have access to inexpensive goods and services? If they have that kind of power, then the whole concept of "let the market decide" is flawed because consumers DON'T have the power to buy what is beneficial to them. All you pro-capitalism idiots who cry out, "let the market decide" have been duped. How are you going to make a decision when all options aren't availabvle to you in the first place. Yet another reason America is the most disgusting place on Earth right now.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I was needing a new cell phone before Christmas. I had a Nokia that had an internal antena, was thin, was small, was not a flip/clamshell form, and was built very well AND it fit perfectly into my front pocket comfortably. It had taken a lot of abuse over the few years I had it, from dropping it on the ground to accidentally sending it skipping across the pavement in a parking lot more than once.
:(
Unfortunately, my wife needed a new phone because hers was broken. Well, to get her a new phone for reasonable cost, we had to upgrade our plan to a more 'modern' one and this forced me to upgrade my phone.
I couldn't find any phone that was similar to my old Nokia. All the phones now either have an external antena, are flip/clamshell, or both. I couldn't find any phone that was as small as the one I had from 3 years ago. None would fit into my front pocket comfortably, they were all too thick. External antenae are just out for pockets, they break too easily. To top it off, I couldn't find any phones without cameras that would come even close to my criteria. My job requires me to go into areas where cameras are not allowed. Also, I don't need Java, games, or any ring tones.
So, the era of a simple, practically indestructible, small, pocket-comfortable phone are over, it seems. Now it's all about cramming as much crap into the things as possible so the bullet-list can be long. Eventually, I had to settle on a phone that I'll have to leave at the security desk when I'm in those places but at least it doesn't have an external antena. It's still too thick to put into my pocket, though, so I have to wear it on my hip
Where do you think carriers make their money? They don't make that much on you calling your spouse to say that you're on your way. They don't make much for you having a business call on the way to work.
They make their money on services. Every new phone you'll find has a big colour screen and supports EDGE/EVDO or whatever technology they want. Every phone integrates more text, video, picture features. Many phones are getting cameras! Do people want cameras? Many not, yet I can't find a phone without a camera... Because I take a picture and MMS it to someone for a buck.
These are features for the CARRIER. If there's a big screen, they can display ads, they can display video, they can display pictures, you can download games, you can download ring tones.
All of these things are paid services above and beyond the call. The carrier doesn't care- they want to sell you value added services.
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
The actual cost of many of the handsets used as Cell phones is less then $2.05 per unit. That's for the high end models. The low ends such as the basic Nokia cost the Providers less then $0.72 per unit. Now tell me why an item that costs less then $3.00 has a markup anywheres from $60.00 to $200.00? The lowest markup is 200 times actual cost, plus they lock you in for a minimum of 1 year at ridiculous rates.
For example, the monthly cost of my land-line is less then $10 including my long distance usage of 6 hours per month, so why would I want to spend more money each month on something that is unreliable, not waterproof, doesn't have global coverage (try calling from 1500 nautical miles from shore).
I'm an American, and I love being tied to monthly contracts!
Yes, you read it right: Its about $0.45.
can anyone tell me why LI batteries have taken over the world? It seems they are expensive and only seem to last about 5 years. NiMH batteries seem much more appropriate for devices such as cell phones that people compulsively recharge anyway.
-------
Incite and flee.
http://news.com.com/Build-it-yourself+cell+phones/ 2100-1008_3-5953682.html?tag=nefd.lede
I read that as -8 friends.
I just wanted to congratulate you for using apostrophes correctly in your sig.
Yeah. The 650 rocks. I have 200 hours of compressed movies in drag-and-drop reach of my SD card writer for when I know I'm going to do something boring. I've used the Wince-alikes. There's really no comparision to 30 fps and 0 dropped frames.
Don't think of "its" as a special case. It's a different word completely, like whose, his or hers.
Hands in my pocket
I don't need to use my minutes every month, they never expire (assuming i buy $15 of airtime every 3 months
You're in the US, right? Wonder if it's the same deal in Canada - expiry of your credit bugs the shit out of with Rogers.
When I went back to the UK a month or so ago, I signed up for a pay-as-you-go with Orange. Free to connect, with my existing GSM phone, and the 5 GBP of credit I put on there will still be there when I go back in a year or 2.
Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997
> I don't need to use my minutes every month, they never
expire (assuming i buy $15 of airtime every 3 months
You're in the US, right? Wonder if it's the same deal in Canada
There we go - Expires after 120 days in Canada. Guess I'll be moving to Virgin, then!
Chris.
Registering accounts later than some other chrisb since 1997
I do not know what department, or if you are in retail or fincance(two deparments that tend to know nothing about the company) but you get the unlock codes. Check CSP. I think all employees should spend six months in customer care. I would ask your supervisor for a little training in this area.
There are rules.
1. If you buy the handset outright from Cingular. OR it is Cingular branded.
2. Six months of services good payment History.
3. International Travel recquires use of other sim cards.
4. Contractual obligations have been fulfilled and you own the equipment.
And a few more I do not recall of the top of my head. There is for you submit a department handles it.
Now, we do not unlock phones that we cannot trace back to the original owner because they are usually stolen.
Unlocking the phone at the end of the contract, or paid in full for equipment, is like giving you the pink slip.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
What this person is saying is absolutely not true. I unlocked a Cingular phone when I told the customer rep that I was going overseas. You can check out similar stories on www.howardforums.com.
The problem is that we don't want that sh*t! We want our cellphones to to be used as tools not toys. Be that adding a camera was a good idea, despite the charges we have to pay for downloading and uploading photos. Heaven forbid we might use a USB cable and download these photos directly or upload our own ringtones that don't suck! Oh, that right, we have to buy [sh*t] music from iTunes.
You & I might not want ringtones but Young America(tm) sure as hell does. My GF thought it was cool she could buy snippets of songs for $2 each. All I could think is somebody was screwing my GF and it wasn't me.
When people pay $199.00 for the phone, $2 for a snippet of "My Humps", and $59.95 a month on top of all that I don't think things in the cellular market are going to get better any time soon. If people would stop paying out the ass for cell phones maybe they'd get cheaper.
Right now the cheapest option seems to be the Virgin Mobile pay-as-you-go phones. All they require you to do is buy a $20 card every 90 days, so it's ~$6.66 a month if you don't talk much (which I don't.) The problem is their rural coverage isn't that good where I live.
Here Mr Differential Pricer is back in action. This time, he has chosen market segmentation to maximize his profit. Want to buy a prescription drug outside of the US? Much cheaper... Want to buy a high end video/camera/telescope outside of the US? Much more expensive... How about movies in Peru vs in the US? Cheaper cheaper cheaper, and not just due to the cost of the seat.
Leaders of big business love to be portrayed as risk taking freedom lovers, whereas in reality they are risk-averse control freaks. Regulation, market segmentation, product warranty/support, anti-dumping rules...all tools of the differential pricer to keep his profits at the maximum. Remember kids, it's not free trade, it's negotiated trade.
I'm a researcher working with a mobile technologies group at a top-5 US tech university. It is nearly impossible to develop an interesting or innovative application for mobiles in the US without a "partnership" (read: signing over all the rights) with a major carrier. And unless you're Nokia or Motorola, you can pretty much forget about that.
Case in point: MMS / picture messaging. Hardly anybody in the US uses it, because it's expensive and you can never be certain it will be received on the other end. Every US mobile provider charges both the sender and the recepient for an MMS, whereas in Europe most providers just charge the sender. The result of this is that the US providers lock down their networks so that only a "trusted" MMSC server (e.g. one run by them or [maybe] another major US provider) can route picture messages, while in Europe anyone can run an MMSC. So, in Europe, if I want to perhaps build a social networking service that uses camphones as a platform, I can do so easily. In the US, I'm pretty much screwed -- I either have to go over an email gateway (which not all phones or carrier plans support) or I have to proxy everything through a phone (which is completely non-scalable and violates all sorts of provider agreements). Because of this, an entire standard (MMS) is more or less dead in the US, because no small company can produce a killer app.
The mobile oligopoly in the US has completely killed our ability to innovate on mobile platforms. We're lagging far, far behind European and Asian companies on this critical technology, and it's due to corporate sloth and short-sighted greed coupled with badly regulated markets.
I can understand not caring about extra features. I know there are people whose jobs prohibit camera phones. But what is it that makes you guys actively detest phones that can do more than make phone calls? Is a phone that can play games more expensive than one that cannot? Is a phone with an MP3 player harder to dial than one without? What is it that turns you off to these things, rather than just having the phone in your pocket and ignoring all the features you don't need? Is it that you don't want to sign a service contract and therefore a new phone is expensive? Or is it something about the phone itself?
I fall somewhere in between. I really want a full-featured phone.
:(
I want support for quad-band GSM (for when I travel in Europe), Bluetooth (I love my wireless headset), a nice address book, and a long battery life.
I do not want downloadable ringtones, games, camera, web browsing, color screen (decreases battery life), or even messaging (SMS or IM).
Is that too much to ask? Apparently, it is in the US at least.
hehe that actually looks fancier than mine ;)
i got some little $40 nokia on a pay as you go plan. Same features not as pretty. I had no problem finding one last year and the refills last a year. $25 a year to keep it active is all.
Unfortunately the one you linked is not available for purchase at their store.
Only in stores
Available from:
Centennial Wireless
Cincinnati Bell
Don't know WTF is Centennial Wireless and Cincinati Bell, but you can bet there ain't a store nearby.
Right idea tho.
After 90 days.
Um..
In Great Soviet Britain, operator pays YOU!
http://www.three.co.uk/priceplans/PAYGwepay.omp
No really.
Phone works on 900/1800 MHZ GSM bands
US is 1900MHZ GSM based
phone would not work without modification
most GSM phones must be specificly made for the US market
the US is about the only major population centre that uses the 1900GSM spec
because of that you have a market of 300million vs the other 3billion that are served by the 900 and 1800mhz GSM networks
it does not make buisness sense to include the 1900mhz functionality for a phone that is a low margin product and would only enable it to increase its possible customer base by maybe 10%
"Why there is no decent consumer organization in the US is a mystery to me. And by 'decent' I don't mean another corp that makes profit by 'certifying' other corps 'consumer friendly'. I mean an organization of consumers. Big enough to raise a stink about a monopoly being abused. Big enough to scare the politicians. Big enough to organize a meaningful economic boycott."
Sure there is. Take a look at Consumers Union, publishers of the great "Consumer Reports" magazine. While you're at it, become involved by subscribing to their magazine. (The product reports alone are worth it.) Consumers Union does lobby the government to make products safer and also brings attention to products that simply don't work. Plus, they are non-profit and buy all products (including the cars they review!) at retail.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
I'll check CSP when I'm at work tomorrow. Until then, I can only go on what my trainer said. She did speak authoritatively on this issue, and said that no, we don't give out unlock codes, and that Cingular doesn't allow us to. And that does make sense to me. It's not like we're stopping customers from unlocking them if they can figure out how - we just aren't actively helping them do it. That's what I'd expect from a cell phone company, really.
Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
an "old" nokia 3390 sounds like what the guy wants. regardless, there are tons of cheap phones available that are unlocked to work in all areas of the world available on ebay. don't be silly enough to think what is on the shelves at a mobile phone company store is at all a good selection.
what's the battery life compared to a non-color screen?
Let me guess, you use TCPMP?
:)
The CE devices using TCPMP can drop 0 frames, too.
Be that adding a camera was a good idea, despite the charges we have to pay for downloading and uploading photos. Heaven forbid we might use a USB cable and download these photos directly or upload our own ringtones that don't suck!
That is completely correct. There are absoutely no technically or physically limiting factors as to why we can't interface cell phones to our PCs. But most sheeple are dumb enough to believe there is.
I didn't realize it wasn't triband
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
How long have you been with and what department? Trainers at Cingular tend to speak with authority, but are just tenured reps who generall have no business training. It is unfortuante, but cingular promotes the people who stay the longest, after they are burnt in customer care. Sound like you have not been with the company long.
Trainers have generally not been in the official mix for a long time and policies change. But I know we have been doing it quite awhile. In the two years I have been with the company.
It is called a subsidy unlock code. Use that as the keywords.
The legal issue of the matter is, if you fulfill the contractual obligations, or pay outright, the equipment is yours.
Trainers all tend do drink the company Kool-aid without having the real facts.
And point that out to your trainer, that she is giving false information to you, which when you do your job, is giving false information to clients, and thus even harming the company in this public forum due to his or her lack of knowledge, or ability to use CSP. Which if you are in a classroom situation they have should have had you reveiw the policy in class.
In the interest of the company and your job a good job with a customers, if you reply to this post that the email in your profile is active. I will ship you my corporate email address and if you respond from an official cingular email, I can further eloborate on this issue without stepping out of corporate policy.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
It's simply logical. Customer already signed contract and bought the phone. Pissing customer off, while may be fun and normal for Bell companies, does not add extra bonus points. A simple call to the T-Mobile customer support would do -- they will give you unlock code in a couple days and help you with instructions on how to perform unlocking.
After which you can use your phone in Europe. With all of your favorite ringtones and things...
Hyperom.com
One word, virginmobile. They seem to be the least evil of all cell phone companies...
Plus, they have a name that could be used for most slashdotter's cars.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Haha, excellent point :)
The goal of computer science is to build something that will last at least until we've finished building it.
If you do work for Cingular, you're part of our customer service problem, christ.
There are a number of circumstances we give out subsidy's, look it up in CSP under Subsidy, it'll be the first fucking hit.
Travel abroad, contract term fulfilled, buying a retail priced phone, leaving Cingular and paying the ETF or having fulfilled the contract, others I'd have to look up to remember.
Go to Tier II Tech, we'll pull it out of our HLR application Snooper if we can, if not and you meet the requirements, we'll send off the request.
You may be thinking of Blue handsets, we don't unlock those. Only Cingular handsets. I know the continuous volume of calls and lack of preparation time Cingular gives us makes it hard to know the bazillion rules out there, but this one's pretty basic, is surprisingly easy to find and easy to do, it's a short form in the Southeast or a Clarify Case elsewhere. One of the few things Cingular makes clear and easy to use.
Seriously, get a brain Dot Moran (hybrid Fark/Cingular joke, Dot Moran is head babe of the Southeast Cingular markets).
I think the best thing anyone who just wants a basic candy bar phone in the U.S. could do is to pick up a recently-discontinued Kyocera 2235, 2325, or Motorola v120 (all CDMA). All are monochrome, monophonic ring/vibe, tri-mode (so you automatically switch to analog when entering areas where digital coverage is not very good, like in some large malls or other large structures at the edge of coverage), incredibly durable, easy to use, and have bright screens. All have excellent battery life, with charges lasting for days under moderate use. The Kyoceras have a wonderful address book, and while the USB link cables aren't cheap, the Kyocera/Qualcomm software that is available is very, very good. The Motorola doesn't have as good of an addressbook, but it has one-button access to the voice memo recording feature, which makes it great for taking reminders.
I have used all of these phones, and still have them all. I am now using a Kyocera KX2 Koi (swivel phone), the only analog-capable (tri-mode) megapixel flash camera phone that Verizon offers, and I'm also very happy with it. I can use it as a phone or camera while closed (and the camera is oriented horzontally when closed, so the viewfinder takes up the whole screen). But for just the basics, any of the phones mentioned beat it out in terms of battery life and durability, and have my full recommendation.
For somone wanting a current-model phone, the KX444 is a great choice too. I haven't used it extensively, but it looks like it works just like a 2325 with a color screen. Of all the phone companies out there, I think Kyocera is the one that really gets what a basic phone should be able to do.
(not astroturfing, really!)
I have a pre-pay GSM phone (Nokia 1100). I simply took the SIM out of the previous cheap GSM phone, popped it into the new (cheap) one and carried on without any further muss nor fuss. I had also been told the choice of phone in the US was different due to the US military having long ago reserved the frequencies that GSM uses everywhere else. So my GSM phone from New Zealand or almost any other country would be illegal in the US. I used to have an account-based GSM phone and travelled all over the Asia-Pacific region. I'd get off an airplane and pick one of the local GSM providers and just start calling. If I wanted to go to the US, GSM coverage was pretty much the worst anywhere......and I needed a phone that could operate on the different frequencies used in the US. This was a few years ago now......but it was one more area where the US lagged behind the rest of the world. Another is making the person who receives the call pay. The norm in the rest of the world is caller pays. Receiver pays nothing. As a consequence, US cell phone uptake lagged the explosive growth everywhere else.
Only boring people are ever bored.
For transfering contacts, see if your phone as a USB port. My motorola V180 has one. It shows up as a modem/serial port in Linux and there is a generic driver for Win2k.
There are somewhat standardized "AT" commands (from the old modem days) for reading/writing the phone book on GSM phones. On the V180, I can access both contacts stored in the internal memory as well as those on the SIM card. (I think the internal memory is the first 500 entries and the sim card is the remaining ones, something like that).
I prefer to use the internal memory because the V180 doesn't support many features on the sim card (photos/categories/ring tones, or something like that).
T-Mobile, Cingular, and ATT branded phones are basically interchangeable
Well yes and no. Although the phones are technically compatable, many carriers "lock" the phones to only operate with certain carriers. So if you switch from carrier X to Y and use phone from X on Y, it won't directly work (although it should). The carriers do this in order to sell more phones... [Isn't this a violation of anti-competitive laws????]
Then there is there sense of music, fashion, and art sense. Children have been conditioned to accept this crap on TV. What music to listen to, because they don't know about free internet radio stations and alternatives other than the iPod. What books to read, because they don't know what else to read outside of Harry Potter and Oprah's Book Club. What ideas are normal and what ideas to think, because they don't know what free will and choice are. Ever since I posted the first message, all I see are sarcastic remarks by anonymous cowards (who's IP addresses should appear like on Wikipedia, IMHO), and people post their subliminal advertisments about how they "don't have a problem with this new phone" or "this calling plan". First off, what does that have to do with this thread? And secondly, do you actually believe that I am that stupid to believe that you are tagging on to this post in support of my message?
You people who have been posting these brand names and company names make me sick. Using my opinions to get a free ride off of my opionion. And that does not settle well with me. Unless I'm getting paid for your name dropping, don't use this thread to sell your crappy products!
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
If I have understood TFA aright, Motorola has produced a world shaking invention ! A portable telephone with which I can telephone efficiently, with good voice production and reproduction. In addition, it's small, light in weight, and has good battery life .
Still hoping that I've correctly understood TFA, it is my understanding than when, not if, I get one of those I will not be paying for, and will not be carrying a device which:-
- takes photographs
- receives and sends fax
- receives television programmes
- folds itself into a small, dense, pocket distorting block
- warms the baby's bottle
- accesses the internet
- makes the coffee
- plays MP3 tunes or any other type of music
- tunes to my favorite radio station
The device will only be usable as a telephone - a function which it will fulfil efficiently.I have but this to say to the person who had this idea," Don't ever gather disciples friend, or they'll have you on the cross in no time." But maybe a second thing, and that is simply, "Thanks".
There must be some sort of award which we can nominate them for..... If not, I propose a new one, the "Gold Star of Thanks from We Who have Suffered" award. A prize for simplifying our lives.
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
"In America, you have the freedom..."
... to be forced to pay for killing Iraqis.