Slashdot Mirror
IL School District to Monitor Student Blogs
tinkertim writes "According to a Yahoo article, a school district in Libertyville, IL will be holding students accountable for illegal actions discussed in their MySpace blogs even if such actions in no way involved the school or another student. A spokesperson for the school district was quoted as saying: 'The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron,' he said. 'It is called the World Wide Web.' Supposedly, no direct monitoring or snooping will be done unless the school receives a report from a concerned parent, community member or other student."
...this assumes they can FIND the students' blogs. What's to keep someone from using a false alias? Look, I'm using one right now.
The ambiguity of the criteria doesn't help either: 'Illegal' is one thing, but 'inappropriate' is another one they use (though not mentioned in the summary) and more or less gives them a license to discipline (oh, but only after some undisclosable anonymous source expresses 'concern', of course). I'm willing to bet that illegal means mostly slander against school employees, and inappropriate is 'anything else we don't like and can use as dirt against a kid we want to get rid of'.
Given that most of the time, it's parental apathy being compensated for by the authorities, it's very telling that in this case parents are demanding to be given back their control.Libertyville? Yeah- right.
The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron.
Yes, and holding students accountable for things that are discussed on the Internet is ALMOST a violation of their rights.
If we're going to become a 1984 style police state it makes sence to start with the young people.
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
...of law enforcement. Shall we have our police officers teaching and managing our schools now? I can't even fathom why a school would want to take on this responsibility. I bet that if this keeps up, a few years down the road parents are going to be yelling at the schools for not catching Jonny's 'illegal' blog. What a mess. Now only if the parents would make the same committment!
'Supposedly, no direct monitoring or snooping will be done unless the school receives a report from a concerned parent, community member or other student.'
It's much more courteous to wait until the snitch reports in to begin spying on someone. And I'm sure no little angel will report their enemies, just for the hell of it.
You go to school, you know people.
If you reference those people in your blog, we can find you
You go to school, you do extra-curricular activities
If you reference those activities in your blog, we can find you
You go to school, you have classes
If you mention those classes, we can find you
You go to school, you dislike a teacher
If you mention that teacher, we can find you
Basically, We can find you.
Can't we all just get along
...they have increased the likelihood that people will try to hold them responsible, and more likely that they will be succesful in doing so. Stupid move. Maybe they should spend more effort dealing with the things they are already, by law, clearly responsible for, and tell people that won't to report apparently illegal things that have nothing to do with the school that they infer from someone's blog postings to call the appropriate law enforcement agency.
Because school districts aren't equipped or funded to act as general law enforcement agencies, and have more than enough demands on their resources doing what they are supposed to do, without their staff trying to live out their "Internet cop" fantasies.
let's say I have a blog, and claim I stole a diamond ring from my neighbor in my blog.
what exactly is the school going to do, that they are going to hold me accountable for what I write in my blog..
arrest me? press charges as an educatorial influence?
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Should be no end of fun for the kids, and I rather suspect that the first several lawyers' fees will end up paid by the district too.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Now bloggers will post under fake identities. That will not silence any subversiv text. Us bloggers will just have to learn from the chinese.
Thank you for teaching us to be stealthy. There is no such thing as education.
This is yet another step towards government-as-parent. Since when is it the school's job (as a government funded organization) to police students' activities when they are not on school property, and are not engaged in activities related to the school? Further, just because someone writes something in a blog does not mean it is true. Keywords: "Waste of resources".
This is a perversion of what schools should actually be focusing on. Why not focus on teaching students how to perform basic life skills, like manage credit, get a bank account, balance a checkbook, and spot shady deals when trying to buy a car? At least that would fall under "education", not "parenting" (although parents should be teaching their children all that as well).
How come the School District is not spending their time working to improving grades?
With an administration that is concerned about what students are saying about them, it is like the staff themselves never left high school!
Oh, and not to be picky, but although you are using an alias:
Your website which you link in your posts has your full name, a history of your online persona etc.
Can't we all just get along
What if someone didn't like a particular student, created a blog claiming to be them, and posted illegal or inappropriate material? The same thing goes for employers checking out potential employees. There's no way to verify people are who they say they are on these sites.
I know that if this kind of thing went on at a school I attended, for some reason all the administrators BSDM sites would be "leaked" to the rest of the school.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
One: It's very true, and a good lesson for the students, that what the identifying information they put online could come back to haunt them. And it's certainly a lesson better learned early in life, rather than later.
Two: How is it that we've reached a point where the schools are raising our kids for us? What happens outside of school is none of their business unless it indicates a threat to the other students. Violent crime, sure.
But more likely, this is going to be used to ferret out the pot smokers and the beer drinkers, who need to learn these lessons from their parents... not the government.
I'd have no problem with a school informing parents of what their kids are doing... but to discipline them for something completely outside of school is not their place.
Let the public schools do what they please. If they do it well, they'll thrive. If they do it poorly, charter schools will eat them alive. Meanwhile, whatever happened to free speech, at ay cost?
"The board of Community High School District 128 voted unanimously on Monday to require that all students participating in extracurricular activities sign a pledge agreeing that evidence of "illegal or inappropriate" behavior posted on the Internet could be grounds for disciplinary action."
Clearly this school is just preparing its students for the America of tomorrow.
They should be able to monitor weblogs all they want; it's public information, right?
The problem is that schools are not the police. They are not the right organisation to deal with potential crimes, and they may not afford the students due process. They certainly have no standing to punish the students for things that happen outside of school.
If the schools want to monitor student blogs for criminal activities, go right ahead. The students shouldn't be so dumb as to admit to criminal activity in a public forum. But the only action the schools should take is reporting whatever they find to the police.
Of course, if I were a taxpayer in that district, I'd be demanding to know why my education budget was being wasted on something not related to education. Seriously, can't the money be better spent on things like books and nutritional school meals? If anybody should be wasting resources on this, it should be the police department.
Last time I checked, we have agencies for handling illegal activities. I believe they are called "police".....
Since when does a school have the time or resources to monitor this type of thing? Sure, sure, if they get notified and see it on the web page, report it to be the police. But last time I checked every person in this country is allowed "Due Process" before being sentenced for any type of crime, and last time I checked it is NOT the schools that are allowed to levy a sentence prior to a court of law.
Overstepping their bounds? WAY overstepping their bounds my friends.
The bloggers should implement click-through licenses that prohibit reading by or the reporting to of the information to school authorities.
Well duh! Of course privacy isn't an issue. Who said it was? The problem is that a *school* is talking about holding kids responsible for these things said there. Pardon me, but isn't that just a little bit out of their jurisdiction? Let them monitor the blogs all they want. But the minute they try to punish students for things on the blog, well, that is just going too far. If the information is so incriminating, let the police handle it. I used to live just a couple miles from Liberyville, IL and I know that the police there don't have a whole lot better to do. Or just tell the parents. Let the parents know what their kids are doing online. That should probably be enough in a lot of cases. I know I don't want my mom reading half the things *I* say on the Internet.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
If they find a student talking about drinking or smoking etc on a blog, they school's authority to do anything about it is limited to possible athletic code violations (which doesnt matter to most students anyways). School's attempt to extend their authority, but in reality they can be told no, and no punishment will be brought down that will stand. If I blogged about something and was called in, (everything happening outside of school), I would tell them that, and then I would leave. If they wanted to press the matter, they would have a world of issues to deal with. A blog post wont be enough evidence for criminal proceedings (for something trivial like drinking) so why does these idiots at this school expect to police people outside of school. On the flip side, I would absolutely love for a school district that instituted the concept of "you can get into trouble for things that happen outside of school" to be sued for failing to protect their students outside of school. They cant expect to have the authority over students, if they do not have the responsibility of them too. Piece of cake, tell the principals to go to hell if the act was outside of school and that is that.
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
If someone actually does post information about an illegal activity they've parttaken in, I mean seriously, they have none but themselves to blame.
Not only do you discuss it in a public medium, you leave records that you did. I mean, that's just stupid.
GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
If writing about it on a blog is proof enough, then how long before descriptive stories of the school administrators doing lines of coke off of the naked breasts of underaged cheerleaders starts showing up?
Just one budding Photoshop genius at the school, and the whole administration could end up as registered sex offenders.
If it's good enough to 'prosecute' a student into a suspension/expulsion, shouldn't the DA consider it good enough to prosecute the administrators into jail?
... I smell a lawsuit! ... Yeah, a big one - at least six figures ... ;)
Shh.
All sorts of possibilities there for creative writing, don't you think?
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I actually do have a blog, but regardless, if I didn't have a blog and wanted to get one, I would not use myspace. I don't suppose this article is meant to be a warning, because I think most other slashdotters would agree. Still, considering the amount of young people who use MySpace, and who are stupid enough to post about their pirating ways, I can see why they're doing this. For someone to pirate software and then gloat about it on their myspace blog, I don't have much empathy for them if they do get caught, personally...
I think that this could be challenged on 1st Amendment grounds, signed releases or not. And even so, what's to stop students from making their blogs password protected or friends-only?
Hmmmm, shouldn't the PARENTS be the ones responsible for monitoring their kids behavior after school hours?
So, who decides what "inappropriate" behavior is?
Most teachers think cursing is "inappropriate", but I certainly wouldn't want my kids disciplined BY THE SCHOOL for cursing. It's ridiculous to even think about.
And, if the kids post really inappropriate stuff (like sexual activities or beatings), then the school should work through the parents and, if appropriate, the police.
I've got 2 teens with MySpace accounts and, while I 'spy' on them, I know their home pages and occassionally view them to make sure they're not out of line. Just knowing that I can see them prevents them from getting out of hand. (And, in fact, they were a bit over-the-top before I started viewing them). But they curse and have a few weird links, but they need to express themselves. And I'd be totally pissed if the school tried to shut down their sites.
I wouldn't say it's a bad thing as there have been public suicide notes that have actually resulted in death, lots of underage drinking, an many other things that are posted in blog communities that attract them. However, it should be dealt with by parents.
Unfortunately, we live in a society where instead of parents monitoring their children, making sure they speak with them about alcohol, drugs, and sex, and many other important responsibilities that are taken; they blame it on the videogames, the media, and many other things. I'm not saying this is the case for every parent, but there are many that haven't got a clue what they're doing.
If parents cannot assume responsibility for the actions of their kin, they shouldn't have had them in the first place. Let's see what this school can do.
Let's just start by saying, I have great parents who were both kind and stern, a good mix of kindness and discipline, but at the schools I have been to not everyone does. Fact of life you may say. That's fine, but pictures this slightly edited scenario from my school:
Jim was let out of class to go to the toilet, while walking down the corridor he mistook a guy standing out for one of his friends (easy enough to do at this school with its dim sky lit corridors) and figured he had been kicked out for something. He said "what have you done this time" and the guy turned around, Jim saw it wasn't the guy he thought it was and starts to apologise. The guy runs over to Jim and pushes him to the ground, then holds his hair and bashes his head into the ground. Then gets up and says "don't tell anyone about this".
He obviously tells people, the guy gets in trouble.
Here's the kicker, in the meeting with the principal, the guy who attacked Jim, that guy's parents and Jim, the parents were yelling at the principal for 2 things.
Thing 1: "How dare you suspend our child from school?"
Thing 2: "How come you haven't disciplined my child to stop this sort of thing?"
That's almost criminal negligence on the behalf of the parents there, and it's so common. The parents don't want their little angel in trouble, but they won't discipline the children themselves.
It's an extension of the other litigation problems that we have; people won't take responsibility for their own actions. When people will sue everyone else in a situation before accepting they may be at fault for something as simple as tripping over a crack in the sidewalk then it's no wonder they wont take responsibility for the raising of their own children.
Can't we all just get along
Well since I hate my classmates, I think I will scan their yearbook picture, create an account as them, then ramble on about mercy killings etc... ... Wonder what will happen when this occurs.
Infiltrated dot Net
So, do the kids get to have a trial where the facts are aired publicly by both parties before they are punished? This is about lack of due process, not about a lack of privacy.
Now, I don't necessarily think that due process is needed for the school to govern behavior of students on school grounds. But I definitely think it's needed before the school can punish students for behavior that's so undisruptive to the school that the only way they can find out about it is reading a blog.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
While this action quite reasonably offends our sense of liberty and free speech, it is certainly not unprecedented. The fact that students are forced to sign this agreement in order to participate in extracurricular activities is what makes this likely to stand up to scrutiny unless a serious public outcry arises. A choice is given, and as long as students are willing to give up the privilege of participating in extracurriculars (which are not guaranteed/forced on them, unlike education), they are free not to be bound by this agreement.
Schools have been using this gimmick to coerce students into submitting to drug tests for many years now, and as far as I know, it has not been ruled unfair. Not that I support either of these things, as the ultimate effect is to force any student that wants to go to college to either sign the agreement or make up a lot of bogus extracurriculars, but I'm not sure that there's any solid legal argument against it, and there may even be some precedent in its favor.
that one word is their license to censor students for whatever they please.
In essence this government agency will apply whatever standard one of their members deems fit. If not their members then people who have influence over them. I will be especially unsurprised if they take action against negative comments about employees of the school system.
Expect the term "hate speech" to be bandied about along with the other PC favorite "intolerance".
If anything we can only hope that the first court to get into the fray smacks these rules down hard. It is a school, we have had it beaten into our heads that religion is not permitted in them because they are a government agency and thus subject to "rulings" about the Constitution. Can we assume that such limits also will curtail what they can do to students who they spy on?
What about students who graduated? What about their parents? What about postings from their friends in other school districts? Shall we go after students based on whose pages they link to? What about pages that link to theirs?
Honestly this type of crap gives me the creeps. Its not like we don't have enough invasions of our privacy by corporate interest we have the Feds with the NSA listening in on calls going to foreign lands now the thought police have started to invade our communities.
the internet is a threat to public education because students and parents can post to the world the fallacies of the system they are part of. bad teachers, bad administrative decisions, and such can be made known to the world and ridiculed for their stupidty. Don't think for a minute that they are looking for threats of violence, they are mostly after threats to their power and authority. They are not accountable enough as it is and now they want to censor anything they deem inappropriate.
Time to remind them they work for us and as such their existance is subject to us as well, not the other way around.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Okay. Here's what I see happening, putting aside the morality and legality of the issue:
/.ers in AIM and they wouldn't know I was the same person unless they recognized my way of phrasing things, because my name is so much different there. Same for my personal e-mail (which is my real name), and my livejournal account (which is the third screen name I like).
Does anyone think my name is really Khaed? It's not.
Do they think the kids are so stupid that they won't post with screen names, like I have here? I have two or three different names I like that I use in various places. I could be talking to some
Kids aren't stupid.
The faculty is stupid if they think this will solve anything.
Lesson for the kids, though: Careful what you attach to your name on the internet. I have a rule that goes something like "I don't say anything using my real name I wouldn't want my mom to read." If you post anything you did that was illegal, or brag about it in public then you are stupid and deserve to get caught.
I wonder if a parent could go after the school administrators for stalking their children online. Once the kid leaves the school, he is no longer under the authority of that school, so any school administrator monitoring that child's online actvities does seem to fall in line with stalking.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
Schools have been bitching for years that they are underfunded and do not get enough state and federal aid to adequately provide education to students, but they have enough time and/or money to piss away with something pointless like this? I mean you cannot go from bitching that NCLB (No Child Left Behind, in case you are not good with acronyms) is not feasible because you do not have funds and then pull this sort of shit. At this pace I foresee my children being home-schooled, and I have been grossly opposed to that for years because I feel a lot of home schooled children do not get adequate social contact...but compared to them being policed by people not their parents when at home it seems like a reasonable alternative.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
I've said it before, so I'll say it again. If you don't want your information out in the open for the world to see, DON'T FUCKING PUT IT ON THE INTERNET!
This sig no verb.
Here's a wild guess:
Kick you off the teams (and other extra activities that look good on college admission forms). Kick you out of AP classes. Suspend or expell you. Put black marks in your record (and otherwise interfere with earning decent grades) that will blight your carreer and reduce your earning and marriage prospects for the rest of your life.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
http://www.district128.org/index.php?module=pagema ster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=122
Safe practices for teens who use MySpace or other blog sites:
#1 Disguise yourself! When you register for a MySpace account and fill out the profile, you can leave nearly all the fields blank and even use a bogus email address. Never include your real name anywhere on the site and leave out addresses, towns, school name, sports teams, cell phone numbers and any other contact information about you or your friends. And most importantly, make sure that your friends who may link to your site do the same.
Now some of you might say it would be absurd to have a trial by jury every time a teen flings gum at the teacher; or that screaming for 40 seconds at the top of your lungs in the middle of your AP gov test should be covered under freedom of speech. I agree with you, and furthermore, I agree with the three facts I stated above.
(Though it REALLY pains me to say this) Students shouldn't be protected by the BoR. If they were, more chaos would ensue than if there were no rules at all. If I was back in school and I could wear a costume of a priest with a 2 foot boner while chasing a picture of a 3 yr old hanging a foot in front of my face (...I actually did...) then why not? If I could say the teacher is a homosexual to their face and have it be protected speech, I WOULD have! Many students would have. And thats kind of the point, the more you let them get away with, the more they will get away with.
Now let's apply what we've learned to the situation at hand. 1. Even though your admitting to an action on myspace isn't even CLOSE to proof (confessions not under oath aren't proof in the real world. Furthermore, someone could take a picture of you and make a myspace account in your name to frame you!) And as we know, schools do not need proof to hold you accountable. 2. These students are minors, like we learned before - fetuses in the third trimester have more rights than a minor!!! 3. While MySpace servers aren't in your school, they can be acccessed from school. Good enough for the deans! 4. Sorry son, you got pwned.
Slash-for-Thought
Just because we're all allowed to walk down the footpath doesn't mean we're allowed to stalk anyone on there.
Because for many people schools aren't about education, they are about control.
Public schools ALWAYS WERE about control - specifically, about indoctrinating children with a government/elite - prescribed culture.
Which amounts to teaching the next generation to be good serfs.
Look at the original debates on setting up and funding public schools. Actually educating the kids was hardly ever mentioned. The big push was to indoctrinate them with a common culture.
(Of course nowdays it's to indoctrinate them with a perversion of the culture of their ancestors' ethnic group that makes them easy to manipulate, in good old divide-and-conquer style. Segregation - and substandard education for the designated underclasses - was banned half a century ago. So get them to DEMAND it. But the principle of government-prescribed social indoctrination {and let learning go hang} is the same.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
So is there some prodding from the state department of education for school districts to be doing this, or is Illinois just more of a nanny state than most?
And the brethren went away edified.
Considering that probaly almost half the thirteen year old Tammies on 13-yo IRC chat channels are really Big-assed-Burt, truck driver from IL, how long before BaB starts making up ficticious blogs that get real Tammies into trouble.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Imagine students posting something like
You get the idea. let's see the powers that be deal with that, especially if the kids put up fake profiles. with fake pictures ripped off from someplace else."It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
when I went to middele schoool we were held accountable for illegal activities which occurred off school grounds. Usually this was fighting, where all involved parties were suspended unless there was adequate proof that someone was definatley not a willing participant. These reprisals came as a surprise to no one.
/. backlash.) In principle (no pun intended).
I dont have a problem per se with schools going after student who do illegal things with their blogs (I now duck my head in anticipation of typical
Unfortunately, I can see this being abused by administrators claiming libel, slander and the like. These kinds of charges are easy to make and hard to prove. And there is where the problem is. I can see school districts leveling discipline vs. students blogging on incessently (sp?) about some school or BOE employee who pissed them off for whatever reason, justified or not, and doing so without a criminal convition or civil suit in favor of the plaintiff. If and when BOEs do this then the student is essentially guilty until proven innocent. It is often done under the lame and legally tenuous pretense of "In Loco Parentis" (unless the student was dumb enough to do it on school grounds or signed a prior agreement with the school that the parents co-signed)
Rich and upper middle class parents may get lawyers or in severe cases get the media on board to pressure the district to back off, but as usual working class and poor students will get stepped on.
Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, I suppose.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Most sites like Myspace (including Xanga) have an option that only lets users who are logged in see your comments. Even still, you can choose WHICH logged in users can read them. simple as that.
Purple, because ice cream has no bones.
Someone find me a list of students in that district. We'll create hundreds of fake blogs with those names talking about getting drunk, doing drugs, and having orgies.
Blogging is one thing... hhow about expressing racist thoughts/feelings in the classroom...
On a recent (this week or last) podcast (in English), Radio Sweden reporters told the story
of a Swedish school that failed students who made racist statements in tnhe classroom.
Apparently, the only course grade affected was in Sociology (or similar), or perhaps the
Swedish school course that focusses on other cultures.
I consider this a practical measure to curb racism (consistent with Anti-Race Hatred laws
in other countries), even though others may consider this somehow an indirect infringement
of one's freedom of speech.
Administration Center Plainfield Community Consolidated School District 202 15732 Howard Street Plainfield, IL 60544 Tel: (815) 577-4000 Fax: (815) 436-7824 Operations/Maintenance Office 914 N. Eastern Avenue Plainfield, IL 60544 Tel: (815) 436-7800 Fax: (815) 439-4830 Technology/Media Office 500 W. Fort Beggs Drive Plainfield, IL 60544 Tel: (815) 439-4567 Fax: (815) 439-3952 Email comments to: info@learningcommunity202.org Web site address: http://www.learningcommunity202.org/ [learningcommunity202.org] Administration Center Hours: Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. until 4 p.m. John Harpers personal inbox.. (815) 577-4000 after 6 rings, the answerming machine picks up and asks you where you want to go select 1 to reach an inbox by name dial this in. 4277375646 jharper@learningcommunity202.org - Superintendent
There's no oxymoron, but it's clear the spokesperson is a moron.
That just leaves me (a non-US citizen and fortunately more that a decade out of highschool) wondering what the big deal is about extracurricular activities. In other words, why would any sane kid subject themselves to silly pledges, ill conceived policies, random drug testing, etc, in order to spend more time at or around school? Is it really that difficult to find something worthwhile to do on their own or with their own friends?
Didn't we just cover this earlier today? School is not allowed to go into home!
Dammit, I wasn't really happy with being homeschooled, but even so I might wind up doing that for my kids if they keep this shit up. If I'm being that shitty of a parent that my kid is doing all kinds of stuff I don't know about, that's on me and my kid, not on Principal Skinner.
Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to conviction
That seems to be a major theme in today's society. You can't do that. Why? Because I don't like it.
No one should have any say in what I do as long as I don't vioate your rights. And sorry, doing something you don't approve of does not violate your rights. You do not have a right to tell me what I can and cannot do.
That's all this is... you can't do that because I don't like it when you do that. Who are the children in this case? The students, or the school board?
Makes me sick.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Tell me how do you keep a straight face when singing about "the land of the free and the home of the brave" at a school where this kind of nonesense is allowed to fly?
If the parents that disagreed had any spines and their child also felt it was wrong they could do a number of things:
- Refusing to sign the pledge. Take it up with your school board, politicians, anyone who'll listen when the school refuses to allow extra ciricular activities.
- Stage a civilised and peaceful protest at the school gates. This must include parents as well as the kids involved.
- Point out that the pledge isn't legally binding unless a parent is signing it. Depends on state laws but can a minor enter into a contract this way to give away their rights?
- Point out that an identity can be faked online. I wonder how long before some kid's suspended because someone masquerades as them.
- Vote with your feet. Change schools. (Unfortunately if allowed to go uncontested this nonesense can and will spread so this shouldn't be your first reaction).
Mind you I'd say anyone who posts their illegal activies to an Internet blog is a moron, child or not. I don't think you can do anything if you're that dumb and anybody then tips off the police as to your actions. Wasting the resources monitoring and witch hunting is the issue here.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Because schooling is compulsory for children in the USA. If you can't afford a private school for your child. then you're required to send your child to a government school on pain of being declared an unfit parent by the government and having your child taken from you by force and put in foster care. "Land of the Free" indeed.
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
Damn, those sophisticated measures would really make me want to respect school authorities. Round three goes to the students. Reduce the enemy to powerless flailing which will of course seed the infighting. Brilliant. Do whatever it takes to disrupt the learning of watered down algebra.
Kids measure their self worth by how many ants run around when they kick the ant pile.
I wonder where all the adults went?
Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
Fav. quote: "It is called the World Wide Web."
... well ... educating. I guess we're just special that way.
I'm not sure what goes on down south of the border, but up here in the great white north, we have police for dealing with criminal activites. We try to keep people working in the educational system busy
That's right people! In case you haven't noticed it, there is a LAND-RUSH for areas of jurisdiction. No longer are we limited by our original purpose or charge. Now we can step BEYOND our boundaries (note that this is somehow different from "overstepping bounds") in order to enforce/impose our views and positions or to simply prevent anyone from saying anything bad about us.
With this in mind, I hereby claim the right of oversight over the school boards. And since I am now in charge of that, I FIRE YOU stupid bastards.
German Republic of America. The constitution had a pretty good run at 220 years. Now we value "safety" more than liberty like all good collectivist societies do. You'll enjoy your iris scans, national ids, constant monitoring of every financial transaction you undertake, after all if you aren't doing anything wrong what do you have to fear? It's for the children and against the terrorists and the MSM supports it, what more do need? Only anti-social subversive dissidents "think for themselves" that's sooooo 20th century and definitely a sign of mental illness.
Who won the cold war again? I keep forgetting... We've always been at war with East Asia, right?
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
What are we talking about here?
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
In your best Ministry for State Security accent, "There will be no invasion of privatzy ugnless we have information from zee reliable informant of missbehavior. You are free to file such reports yourself and shoult if you are zee good citizen."
How much are they going to spend reading blogs? There's no end to the amount of monitoring you can do. Look, you get the same thing at work , on the telephone, off your navistar, you cell phone, around your computer, or any newer monitor. I'm so glad my freedom loving country has pioneered all of these futuristic technologies.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Its not an issue of them reading the student's blogs but under our constitution, its an issue if they try to attack the student because of what they read. Its the students being expelled and suspended that is the issue -- if its on the web, yes, it is free for all to read unless someone password protects it but you can't hold someone responsible for something that was done outside of your jurisdiction.
With the education system as it is now, how did anyone even think of something this inane? We don't have enough teachers to teach, yet alone enough teachers to sift through kids' blogs looking to see if they did something illegal or "inappropriate."
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
There is an easy solution to this if the students really find this offensive.
Sign up for a myspace account if you don't have one. Exchange them among students. Complain about everyone elses account. Everyone ask every day if they have investigated all complaints. I think the biggest offense here from a liability standpoint would likely be the targeting of some students over others.
I'd also suggest fun with content. It'd be fun to post extensive content on which teachers were less than competent. Nothing libelous or overly inflamatory but it'd be nice to have a post for everytime a teacher was late to class or every time an administrator picked their nose. Just stick to the facts kids. Rat out every shortcoming of the institution and force them to read it all day in and day out. I ran pretty low on the Radar in highschool but I can still think of pleny of shortcommings that they would probably not like to hear about themselves.
I do believe that Libertyville is a farily large school so it should quickly turn into a giant morass.
Have fun people.
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
Seriously, why would anyone send their kid to public schools anymore? Every day, they're less and less an educational institution and more of a testing ground for the Nanny State.
This story has been discussed to death on Chicago radio and frankly, only the minor's who are posting stupid stuff are the ones complaining.
As was stated by the school district, but amazingly missing from the post, the school is not been seeking out the information. They simply stated that if they posted something stupid, say, like pictures of themselves smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, that that information can be used against them per the Code of Conduct of the school district.
In other words, if the 'cool kids' piss-off / pick-on somebody, the pickee just might nark on them.
If these minors don't like it, well they have two choices. a) Don't post themselves doing stupid stuff, b) Wait a few years, they will grow out of it.
I'd add a nice click through EULA to my page, were I a kid in that city. Let 'them' break the terms and try and hold it against me. The school is not going after things that you should send the cops after - not near as black and white - so no protection like if someone was bragging about rape or stealing a car. Then call the cops when they 'hack' your site or some other cyber-crime that seems to be the flavor of the month.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Back in the days when I was their age we didn't have blogs. We did have acid however. I wonder how you're going to find me going from this? It's got everything in it:
:-). I waited half an hour but nothing happened so I did something remarkably stupid: I stuck another on the tip of my tongue, drenched it with my saliva and sucked all the Lisagig Diatelamyte out of it until it was completely try. Half an hour later: still nothing happened. I felt like a little antsy but hey I've been feeling that way all day. So what I do? You guessed it, I took another one. I had three by seven O'clock they were all gone. Had Dinner with Mom & Pop. During the middle of it I almost coughed most of the mashed potatoes back on my plate because I thought what it'd be like if the Acid hit me while I was sitting at the table. I went up into my room after dinner and fired up my spanking new what I got for christmas. I can afford to (With the credit card numbers + cvv numbers I got from #cardz-rus). I was playing I don't remember what when it hit me all of the sudden. Fuck! I MEAN FUCKING SHIT! Hey Motherfuckuh, you shoulda been there! I don't remember a whole lot right now but I can remember seeing geometric forms, colors and all of the sudden I am FREE and I can get undressed and I flopped onto my bed and then did something amazing and when that RUSH! RUSH! of cosmic energy went through me like a FUCKING POWERDRILL through my skull and now brain's pulsating both on the insides and outsides, dammit I could see it!, those shades of red, those geometric figures, those pulsating colors, that music that beat sounding off the fabrics of life, reality and universal intelligence all and then I WAS IN FUCKING TERENCE MCKENNA Land, I kid you not. Not with the DMT elves but pretty much close because I wasn't in Kansas anymore. Tell you what, you're not going to believe me until you've tried it yourselves. This TRIP it LASTED FOR HOURS, LITERALLY. It came on slow, actually I wasn't expecting it at all anymore and it stayed with me until the morning as I am typing this before class. Hey! I've been illuminated by it too, because when I close my eyes I can see this white light and I know everything is alright. Oh and I actually learned something from it too. I'm going to bring a baseball bat and just swing it directly into the face of our principal. Maybe that's what it'll take to illuminate that sick and worthless piece of shit of a bureaucrat. Swing into into his face so he drops to the floor and then bring it down hard on his head to bust his skull wide open. Gonna wear black today.
Here fictious-student-me admits to taking drugs and using stolen credit card numbers and on top of that announces a violent crime and USES INAPPROPIATE, OBSCENE AND FOUL LANGUAGE(!)...
Yesterday evening I dropped an acid. Yes. Those little pieces of paper with Mickey Mouse on them. Only mine didn't have Mickey Mouse on it, it was Goofy
Oh okay.. let's see what clues we have here:
The "perp" ingested a presumably high dosis of Lysergic Diathelamide or similar substance
The "perp" owns a video game console they got for christmas and has access to stolen credit cards.
The "perp" has access to a PC where he presumably accesses an irc channel #cardz-rus
The "perp" has access to a baseball bat.
Without being able to test all students for LSD, search PC's for irc clients and subpoena internet
records you're going to have to wait for that one kid that actually shows up with a baseball bat
in your office (unless you're plugged into the DHS K12 Total-Information-Turtles Program)
I'm waiting for the sneaky kid who gets a warning from the school, and then proceeds to add to the blog, posting another six months of items with dates ranging into the future, and where the content gradually drifts into fluffy nonsense - articles about riding unicorns in the school halls of gingerbread, etc.
Then see if any police or court would believe the school's assertation that the blog was a "likely threat", once they'd seen the entire archive.
...that you can make MySpace accounts private? MySpace has made it very easy to block anybody you don't know or trust from seeing your personal info as means of peophile protection. (AOL Chatrooms are so 90's. All the hip pedophiles use MySpace.)
There's no possible way school faculty could ask to get past those types of privacy measures without seeming like pedophiles. I can see it now-
Teacher- "Could I speak with you for a moment, Suzie?"
Student- "Yes, Mr. Walker."
Teacher- "A classmate says you were doing something against school regulations online. This means you must give us acsess to pictures of you, personal information, your address, and other things you only want people you know and trust to see."
Wierd.
I regret spilling a glass of ginger ale on an achritect!
I went to middle school in Mundelein, a few miles away from this place. I guess I've got a bad case of "home town pride" or something because I feel like playing devil's advocate.
For your consideration:
If we are going to make schools responsible for events like Columbine, it seems only fair to grant them additional power in the interests of preserving the safety which *we* have made their charge.
I'm too old to like MySpace myself, but I have read a few blogs on that site. I happen to think that kids 5-10 years from now will know better than to use the Internet as their own personal diary. Maybe, just maybe, we are doing these kids a favor by encouraging *other* means of discussing personal and/or private issues.
barack to the future?
Government schools are corrupt by their very nature. A school which is a branch of the government, will seek to achieve governmental agendas. This is only natural.
The government needs to get OUT of the business of education and let the private sector take over. Private schools do a better job of educating, and are not compulsory. There is also choice, and a free market.
Libertas in infinitum
is "Ill" schools
"Out of school? Out of school I sit on my ass. So, can I go to college here?"
What is this educational fixation with getting students to sign shit? "Hey Timmy, we are going to extort a signature out of you. Sign here on this document you've had no input to. No? Well then can you explain to the class why you object? Speak up Timmy, nice clear voice. Well, I expect you didn't really want to play on the football team anyway." Isn't the point that the student should voluntarily buy in to the idea? Teachers, being the little Hitler's that they are, don't seem to notice the absurdity: there is a rule requiring voluntary agreement. If you don't sign, no extracurricular activities.
I thought public schools had no control over this sort of thing. Didn't the US Supreme Court case Tinker vs Board of Education settle the issue of free speech in schools (provided it didn't disrupt the classes)?
Private schools can do whatever they want, and should. How can public schools legally play cop off the property?
We've become a nation of snitches, tattle-tales and ninnies.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Why is this marked as a troll?
Maybe a school administrator had mod points?
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
someone please nuke the internet. we at slashdot can make a fallout shelter for ourselves only.
I went to this very high school and in my senior year they instituted a policy whereby any athlete involved in any way with the police(even actions that involved free speech) could be removed from their team and banned from all sports activities. This is just a logical progression for such a school and the fact the information isn't confirmed or reliable won't stop them from acting on it.
I'm glad I'm out of that community and it reinforces my weariness of any suburb, anywhere. I feel sorry for the students that have to live in that environment because I'm sure it justs gets worse with each passing year.
Reminds me of the fact that when I leave my house in the morning school rules apply. If I were a smoker and were to smoke before getting on the bus, I could be disciplined. If I'm walking home and another student attacks me, any retaliation on my part would be disciplined. Oh, and trust me: there's little drug dealing on school campuses. Kids are smart enough to do that stuff at home. I know us kids have no minds of our own and we're obviously not intelligent till the day we turn 18, but this is terrible. Parents should be responsible, but they just push that off on everyone else. Society today...
The critical issue here is that a private school is not a government agency and as such on on one hand has the right of association and on the other doesn't have the restraints placed on the government by the constitution.
One of the main targets of this control is for things like myspace and facebook. Both of these let you post pictures of you and your friends doing whatever. One of the more popular choices is to post pictures of parties that involve alcohol. This is what the school board is going after in terms of 'inappropriate' behavior. All that needs to be done is to put the following caption for the pictures:
"My friends and I had another 'I-can't-wait-until-college' party. We put water in our beer cans because we're under 21, but it still was fun!' "
Now, the school can't prove that they are drinking alcohol, and the absurdity of the vague term "inappropriate" is ever more apparent.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
If this is a government school, the first student able to sue should get a nice college fund.
They're trying to get an end around by making it a "pledge". Which is silly on two grounds, one you can not get around this ammendment by contract, and two how old do you have to be in the US to legally sign a contract?
Why is it, exactly, we need to continually increase funding for public education again? When I have my earnings forcibly taken by the US Government in the name of better public education, I expect that the money will go toward funding better public education (laugh as appropriate), not maintaining a "nanny-state."
I miss the days when parents cared about what goes on in their children's lives, perhaps when they themselves were responsible for raising their kids in a manner that reflected their own values. But, this isn't all bad, with this increasing amount of free time the county is giving these parents, the bars are going to get a lot of business... thus helping the local economy...
Use a pseudonym online. Seriously, you can choose a pseudonym that you don't change and thus it's identifabel as you, but it provides a layer of abstraction for shit like this. IT's not like it's a shield that no one can peirce, of course. It's not hard to find out who's behind a screen name in general. However what it does is stops people from noticing something you wrote they disagree with and trying to use it against you. If your boss or teacher or something stumbles across a post you made, it won't raise any warnings since it is just comming from soem random person on the net.
It doesn't stop a motivated person who's after you, but then nothing does. However it will stop this casual snooping form people who have no bussiness in the first place.
By nature, humans are not happy unless they are faced with some challenge, real or perceived. For most, it is enough merely to know that it is there so that you have something to blame all of your problems on. For the rest though, those of us that have the brains to back up the bitch, we solve problems.
'Course, there will always be a few imbeciles who were promoted higher than they needed that take matters into their own hands to look important. Often, this involves creating policies that turn out to be illegal or more scare-tactic than actual force. Take this school district for example.
"High school students are going to be held accountable for what they post on blogs and on social-networking Web sites"
US v. Baker- E-mail messages were ruled as not "constitut[ing] a credible threat," i.e. because they cannot rule for intent, or even for actual ownership of said messages, the internet provides insufficient evidence. Although a website might save an IP address, or a Myspace account might say it is written by Jimmy, it cannot actually be proven who did or said what on the internet.
"evidence of "illegal or inappropriate" behavior posted on the Internet could be grounds for disciplinary action"
The Federal government will not back them up on that claim. Firstly, "illegal or inappropriate" is too vague to be supported in a legal suit. Secondly, inappropriate is subjective, and illegal can apply to the messages or the content, and as the messages are not created in an illegal manner (the internet is not illegal, for now:D) then they are technically not illegal.
"District officials won't regularly search students' sites, but will monitor them if they get a worrisome tip from another student, a parent or a community member."
And if this is in fact the case, then they can say goodbye to federal and state funding. No self-respecting teacher is going to have the task of "read students blogs" added to their duties, and no miserly government organization is going to give money to a school in order to employ someone to monitor everything a student says.
Freedom of speech, although rendered subject to a few conditions by Congress, does in fact mean that you can tell your friends that your teacher is a moron and that you wish you could set his house on fire.
You just can't actually set it on fire.
Other than that, Let Freedom Ring, ladies and gents.
The Abadon
...I would withdraw him or her immediately on the grounds that this school shows an inappropriate interest in his or her outside-of-school activities a-la stalking. Furthermore, I would seek a restraining order for this alarmingly pedophillic behavior.
They had best be glad that I have no children at this time.
This was good in some ways; if the police caught a student committing a misdemeanor after school, often school-level punishment is more appropriate. Of course, any right to a fair trial is ended, but that's something you learn at school: (i think one of life's most important lessons) that life isn't fair.
Think how ridiculous it is to have 17 and 18 year-old adults, sitting in a classroom, and having to ask (and gain) permission to go for a piss. For those who are working, imagine if your boss had the ability to deny whether or not you could take a dump. (They can deny where though! :-P)
But yeah, for anyone who is in school now... Life doesn't get any fairer, there are still bullies, idiotic rules, teacher's pets, narks, show-offs and absolute cunts outside of school -- but at least you're not trapped in a room with 30 of them.
Indeed... If I was in the school district, I would start a blog, just so I could tell the story of how I used my army of robots to nuke New Tokyo, or something. Then, I would post that I shot Kennedy using my time machine. Then, I would post that I had a glass of wine. I'd love to see them try to engage in any serious disciplinary action based on a single unverified piece of heresay without any corroborating evidence. Certainly, the student has no expectation of privacy. The school has the authority to read any blog they want. But, if they want to actually do anything as a result, they deserve to have their asses handed to them.
tell them how you feel:
S TAFF_MAN_op=list&PHPWS_MAN_LIST=user&PHPWS_MAN_COL UMN=label&PHPWS_MAN_ORDER=2&MMN_position=214:3
http://lhswildcats.org/index.php?module=staffman&
Step 1: set up the straw man: "The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron."
Step 2: knock it down: "It is called the World Wide Web."
Is this just not a case of the school system taking on yet another parental role? Is there anything the school is not now held accountable for should someone's child do something stupid?
I can just imagine some asshat will sue the school board when little street-racer Johnny in his birthday-gift car runs over a pedestrian. "Oh, gosh, it's the school's fault: they're the ones that ran the drivers training course!
c/drivers ed/sex ed/life skills ed/fitness ed/etc.
Perhaps it's all a CYA action on the school board's part. Or maybe they're chasing after Orwell's 1984. Either way it's a sign that we are living in a truly fucked-up society.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
First of all, dupe from like two days ago. So, sure, blogs are public information. You don't have an expectation of privacy when you post something in a public forum. But schools are only in loco parentis while the students are in school. If a student posts on his blog that he drank alcohol and smoked weed on the weekend this is none of the school's concern. It's that student's parents' concern, and if they're doing their job as parents they will be the ones monitoring his blog. Now, if a student posts that he keeps a bottle of vodka in his locker at school, or that he cut class, then it becomes the school's concern. So schools monitoring student blogs is not in and of itself a problem; it only becomes a problem when some school official gets on a power trip and thinks he gets to parent his students outside of school hours.
"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
Here's a news flash:
They've been doing this at my old school district for well over a year now. (South-central PA)
My sister has had friends busted for having Xanga's, Myspace's, etc which detailed either insults directed at teachers, various parties involving drinking, or direct threats to other students (the excuse they use for this in the first place). Some have even had explusion hearings based upon what was stated on their Xanga's (although in one case... it was just the straw that broke the camel's back).
While there are ways to protect your privacy in these communities, many people don't do it for the simple fact that they INTEDED to be found by their friends. The flaw in the social system is that nobody assumes that their parents would ever check these systems.
The long and short of it is: If you'd get in trouble (either parentally, scholastically, or legally) for saying it to someone's face, either use a proper layer of privacy, or DON'T FREAKING WRITE IT!
See how they like a dose of their own medicine, I can hear the howls of ''privacy violation'' now!
My high school principal does this. They have an account and search through students' profiles regularly... kind of a nazi in general.
Or at least, they sure act like it!
It's funny and ironic that such gestapo methods come up in the "free" US of A first nowadays. As the shiney example of freedom and democracy that they like to play when it comes to blame other countries as unfree i would assume that this would be more than just some cheap publicity lies.
Ugh. Shouldn't have skipped lunch.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
As was stated by the school district, but amazingly missing from the post, the school is not been seeking out the information.
Which would be a complete waste of resources.
They simply stated that if they posted something stupid, say, like pictures of themselves smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, that that information can be used against them per the Code of Conduct of the school district.
Since these examples involve breaking the law then the relevent people are law enforcement. Or does the school district want to set up what amount to "kangaroo courts"?
In other words, if the 'cool kids' piss-off / pick-on somebody, the pickee just might nark on them.
Or make up an accusation. Which is why proper criminal courts have standards of evidence.
I want to surrender all responsibility, rights, thought and action to the school district. Please run my life for me.
stupid juveninle story telling, as you put it... And I happen to think that it should be protected for all citizens, not just those old enough to vote (and though I don't remember the case, I think the Supreme Court agrees with me)
If a 16 year old post that he commited some crime, and he did commit the crime, and gets busted (which better take more evidance than online ramblings which may or may not have actually been written by the student in question) for that crime, he is a dipshit. But if he is writing fiction, or writing about legal but objectionable activities he partakes in on his own time, that is his, and his parents business, keep the schools out of it.
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Why don't they just ask students to submit their diarys for inspection at the end of each day.
I am cool with the school busting kids for talking about illegal activities. Are you really that stupid. Way to talk about breaking the law in public. I could care less if the school monitors their blogs. The line they shouldn't cross was posted earlier about the teen being expelled for posting about the school harassing him when he was posting at his own home (NOT THE SCHOOL!). The second ironic thing about this pair of stories though is that this town is Libertyville. I am no expert but it seems to me that me saying "I wish they would go #$@@ their self" or "I think he is a @$#*$" would be considered statement of personal belief or opinion - protected by free speach and as long as it wasn't done from school should be fine. It's expressing the statement "I am going to kill bob" that gets you in trouble. But I could be wrong.
"I don't think they need to police what students are doing online," she said. "That's my job."
Associate Superintendent Prentiss Lea rebuffed that criticism.
"The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron," he said. "It is called the World Wide Web."
Yeah, you stupid bitch its the internet. But just because someone posts something online - on their own time doesn't mean your school has the right or authority to do shit about it.
I hope the ACLU steps in and makes a big stink. I hope parents band together and get the press involved (as well as a shitload of lawsuits).
Hm. Not only does a student's freedom of speech get left at their door (which is bullshit), but now their freedom of speech gets taken away all the time.
What if someone posts a statement in their blog about how fucked up this asshat's reasoning is, and calls him abusive names? While certainly not illegal, I'm sure they'd over-step their boundries there and punish the student.
Its this kind of shit that makes me glad I graduated 16 years ago. At least then they weren't trying to take away all my rights.
From Wikipedia :
The right to freedom of expression is not absolute in any country; governments always prohibit certain types of expressions. Under international law, restrictions on free speech are required to comport with a strict three part test: they must be provided by law, pursue an aim recognized as legitimate, and be necessary (i.e., proportionate) for the accomplishment of that aim. Amongst the aims considered legitimate are protection of the rights and reputations of others (prevention of defamation), and the protection of national security and public order, health and morals. It is generally recognised that restrictions should be the exception and free expression the rule; nevertheless, compliance with this principle is often lacking.
The key being restrictions on freedom of speech MUST to a strict THREE-PART test.
None of this shit is happening in this case.
Also from Wikipedia :
The development of the Internet opened new possibilities for achieving freedom of speech using methods that do not depend on legal measures. Pseudonymity and data havens (such as Freenet) allow free speech, as the technology guarantees that material cannot be removed (censored). A Gripe Site is one of the latest forms of exercising Free Speech on the Internet.
This is also against the constitution :
Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
In my opinion the schools, in the U.S or anywhere else in the world has no right to interfear with pepoles personal live. Even if it is just a blog on the internet. This type of censorship is going to backslash badly one day, it is going to happen when pepole get pissed off for not being allowed to write on there _own_ blogs what they want to write.
What happens outside school is not the school problem. Outside problems only become school problems when somebody takes them into the school at school time or not. Most of the troble makers don't even write blogs, so this is also pointless and a huge waste of time.
(Sorry for all those spelling errors)
Did anyone see that this clown's name is Prentiss Lea?
Prentiss Lea = Princess Lea?
The people in charge are listed here.
And here
On page two, the principal's info is listed. His address is brad.swanson@d128.org
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
When that school budget in Libertyville comes up for a vote next year and they're crying for more money, I hope the voters remember that these are the same people who'll cry poverty for extra books and sports uniforms but suddenly have the resources to play internet police. Screw 'em.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
There was a really good program that ran recently, I think this is it. Good, you can wath the whole thing online. I don't remeber if that program goes into it, but IIRC it does. It's a great program regardless.
I work in the industry, BTW -- not for a credit card pushe^Wissuer. Frankly, I don't understand why the industry is so hellbent on keeping the public ignorant. Credit cards are a useful tool, and with proper education and responsible business practices, the industry would remain very stable and plenty lucrative enough. Pushing consumers into more and more debt is eventually going to cause an industry implosion, or heavy-handed legislation. The amount of consumer debt in the U.S. is just astronomical, and quite frankly, becoming very scary.
So, yeah, there you have it. Public education is beholden to corporate interests these days. Snuffing GOOD programs that would teach kids about responsible credit management, MPAA/RIAA sponsored anti-piracy propoganda programs, etc.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
"The concept that searching a blog site is an invasion of privacy is almost an oxymoron," he said. "It is called the World Wide Web."
Prentiss Lea
Associate Superintendent
(847) 367-3166
prentiss.lea@d128.org
Some other individules of note:
David L. Clough
Superintendent
(847) 367-3159
Brad Swanson
Principal
(847) 327-7001
brad.swanson@d128.org
Don't be dicks but let them know your views on this subject.
If I were a tax paying parent with a child in this school district I would have a serious problem with this. The school districts determine a budget based on the services they choose to provide and then the government extracts that money from the community at gunpoint (or more specifically at the threat of placing a lien on property and/or garnishing wages, these actions would presumably lead to armed government forces taking you into custody if you fought back long and hard enough.)
These extracurricular activities are paid for out of the school budget. Every taxpayer in the community is charged regardless of whether they benefit from the services, but at least the assumption is that if they have children or grandchildren in the school system then those kids will have the service available.
If the school district imposes relevant requirements (such as a physical exam prior to joining a sports team) in order to allow kids to participate that's fair. However, when it comes to unrelated out of school requirements that's the slippery slope. If this policy is acceptable because you consider extracurriculars to be a privilege then at what point do you draw the line?
What if the requirement was that a student must agree not to join a political party if they want to be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities? What if the school required students to agree not to be muslim if they want to participate in extracuricular activities? Would you argue that that's not a 1st amendment violation? After all, the school isn't forcing a religion on them, it's just setting a prerequisite for participation in a "privilege" of an "optional" extracurricular activity.
That being said, if a kid posts evidence of actual illegal activity on a public forum without first establishing a long posting history of fictional illegal activity then the kid is just stupid and ought to be smacked for being stupid. It's just common sense that if you're going to do something illegal you shouldn't blab about it. Either obey the law (like I do) or break the law and cover your tracks. Anything else is just monumentally stupid.
Besides that what the hell is wrong with kids that want to post pictures of themselves performing illegal and lewd acts online? Didn't get enough attention from Mommy and Daddy?
Lawyers fees for what? This policy might be wrong headed, but if someone puts something in public webspace they need to be willing to handle any consequences of such actions. Schools have no requirement to LET anyone participate in extra curricular activities. That's how they justify drug testing too.
Again, I also disagree with this. It's not the business of the government (read: public schools). Still, I doubt anything actionable in court will come of it.
Yes, what if the student refuses to sign the "agreement"?
If they use threats, to make you sign, then it can't be legally binding. Not that it is anyway - especially if the child is a minor; this is (like company "policy" statements) just proof that you were aware that this is their policy, and what the consequences are.
If you refuse to sign, then can they refuse you admission to school? I would have thought that the school is obliged to accept any student except for good reason; refusing to "sign a pledge" is not good reason. I'm sure a lawyer could have a heyday with this.
I guess it varies from state to state, but in Canada it's the obligation of the government to provide an education to all children, and they must make reasonable accomodations to do so. While they can get away with obviously simple things (i.e. in one district, attendance required a $50 refundable deposit for textbooks - but had to have a dispensation for those who could not afford to pay). But, if they can't accept you, say for disciplinary reasons, then they had to provide for home schooling or some alternative.
Get these guys shelling out for home schooling for 10% of their students, and you'll probably see them thinking about compromise (especially if it also includes 10% of teachers being laid off - the teachers' Union will probably put their 2 cents worth in.)
I have had the unique ability to talk to some of those teachers that are what /. is currently 'slamming' as regards to ther abilities and desires to teach. Just as they are entering the profession.
Guess, what, even as friends they are exactly as described. No inclination to teach student show to think for themselves, just pure memorization of facts and tidbits. Hell even the science teacher, who is a very nice lady, doesn't want her students to experiment on their own. They just refuse to teach students the theory of a subject, rather than the plain mechanics. Closest example would be deciphering Shakespeare into the technical components, while never presenting him in his full prose. So of course its boring, and never imparts the whole picture.
Don't get me wrong, these people are full of zeal to impart knowledge to their students. The problem?
They are afraid of the school system. They have to follow some very rigid guidelines, and with administrators refusing to remove their heads from each others rear ends, they have no ability to change the policies.
Fire the administrators, and encourage the teachers to teach the entire picture.
Oh and always remember, those who want power, should be the last to recieve any.
True, but physical planting of evidence is something that most people actually understand, and it entails a certain amount of risk on the part of the planter (plus, you actually have to have said drugs/guns/bombs/etc. to plant).
By making something that's written on the internet a violation, it means that someone can sit at home with nothing but a computer, and possibly a camera to take photos with, and produce that "evidence."
It lowers the barrier to entry on producing incriminating evidence to a very low level, which is very different (in degree, if not in kind) from what's required to frame someone in a more traditional setting.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
...is an apology to the world for the rest of the losers on slashdot.
prgrmr, I nominate you to deliver. Let the healing begin!
If the school district imposes relevant requirements (such as a physical exam prior to joining a sports team) in order to allow kids to participate that's fair. However, when it comes to unrelated out of school requirements that's the slippery slope. If this policy is acceptable because you consider extracurriculars to be a privilege then at what point do you draw the line?
Let there be no doubt - by no means was I trying to say that I think that either a) this policy is acceptable, or b) that extracurriculars are a privilege. I firmly disagree with both statements. You make an excellent point, that since everyone is charged for these activities, they should be just as protected as education itself.
However, as to the slippery slope, my point was that we are already halfway down it, and that's what concerns me. You mention that it's fair to impose relevant requirements, and the example of sports is quite appropriate. It was a long time ago that it was decided that random drug testing of athletes was perfectly constitutional, on the argument that it was relevant - we don't want kids getting hurt because teammates are high or anything like that. Later on this was pushed further, and random drug testing was imposed in some schools on people doing non-athletic extracurriculars. The argument became "success in extracurriculars requires healthy students, and healthy students don't take drugs." Whether or not you agree that the state has a vested interest in keeping kids off of drugs, it's one thing to drug test unwilling kids to make sure they don't hurt each other; it's quite another to force tests upon non-consenting students engaging in non-athletic activities where they run no risk of physical injury.
Regarding this article, I feel that the situation is even more questionable than the drug-testing one, because it could be at least be argued that a school is obligated do everything in its power to keep kids off of drugs. What this school system is trying to do is literally make speech outside of school punishable, without clearly defining what types of speech it will punish - the paranoid will assume that this is deliberate so that they can decide after the fact. Whether or not this is the case, the restriction is far more onerous than the drug testing (drugs can only be detected for a few weeks - how long do you imagine the average MySpace blog is available? Ever tried to get every search engine out there to un-cache a site?), and if this stands, I fear what will come next for our students.
My advice to anyone faced with a school-imposed requirement like this? Evaluate whether retaining the right to say/do what you like outside of school hours is vitally important to you. If you're reading Slashdot, chances are you're smart enough to not ever say anything online that will get you in trouble, so keep in mind that you can probably just sign the agreement and forget about it forever. If the idea of it still really bothers you, though, go ahead and tell the school system that you won't play their dirty game. Accept that you will not be able to participate in extracurricular activities, but demand that the school include in your permanent record (and send off to colleges when you apply) a letter explaining that the school system itself specifically barred you from participating - this is important, and I don't believe it is an unreasonable request. Find a sympathetic teacher (I guarantee there are a few in your school that are as appalled by this whole thing as you are) that will write a glowing letter in praise of your decision to stand up for your ideals. Get an after school job, volunteer, teach SAT classes, do something with your time to show the colleges that you're not just lazy, and you'll probably come out of it fine.
Or just sign the damn thing. I mean, they've got you by the balls anyway, and in a couple years, you'll be free in the (more or less) true sense of the word. Sucks to be a kid...
For, well, any of a number of possible things. The school is a public actor, and even for voluntary, extra-curricular activities it can't engage in arbitrary discrimination without exposing itself to potential liabilities. The farther the matter on which they base their decision on gets from their central legal mandate of pedagogy, the less ability they will have to defend it.
And its not all that unlikely that there will be charges that such "blog-policing" is being used as a pretext to cover discrimination on the basis of sex, race, etc.
Its a whole can of legal nastiness than the district is needlessly jumping into headfirst.
I don't think anyone's commented that Rage Against the Machine's Tom Morello grew up in Libertyville (same for Tool's Adam Jones, iirc that issue of Guitar World from 10 years ago correctly). He'll be all over such social injustice. Have no fear.
I think this is just the product of the ever-rising climate of litigation in our country. This country has politicized our schools. Now, instead of putting the responsibility of a student's actions on the student or his/her parents, we've put the responsibility of their actions on the school themselves. Look at some of the recent stories that have been in the news in the last several years. One recent story that comes to mind was featured in TIME http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1 194020-1,00.html magazine. The article basically describes how universities are being held responsible if a student commits suicide. The argument (not that I agree with it) is that the school could have done something to save the student, but they didn't try hard enough.
Granted, this deals with universities, but it wouldn't surprise me if a guy in high school was posting "inappropriate" comments about a girl he banged or something, and the parents of the girl sued the school for not intervening with disciplinary action. We've basically sent the message to schools that "We want control over ourselves and our kids - but if they do something wrong its your fault for not stepping in."
Even so, this concept of signing a pledge barring participation in illegal and inappropriate activities outside of school is nothing new. If anybody recalls, about 7 years ago there was a lot of ferver over random drug testing of students involved in extracirricular activities. If the school found out that you were using drugs outside of school, you could be subjected to disciplinary action. This went so far as to include something like being at a party with beer.
In the end, though, American's have ultimately put schools in this position. If you discipline our kids too much - we'll sue you. If you don't discipline our kids and something happens - we'll sue you.
"Man, it's the same bullshit they tried to pull in my day. If it ain't that piece of paper, there's some other choice they're gonna try and make for you. You gotta do what Randall Pink Floyd wants to do man. Let me tell you this, the older you do get the more rules they're gonna try to get you to follow. You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson Dazed and Confused
I am Jack's inflamed sense of rejection
Well, there's a problem with that. It's not illegal in all cases for a high school student to drink alcohol, so such a pledge covers activity that's not criminal. For example, a parent can give a 15-year-old child a glass of champagne to toast the New Year, and it's perfectly legal to do so. This pledge would "forbid" that activity, and if a coach learned about the (perfectly legal) behavior, he could eject the student from an athletic team because of it, by waving the contract. That's just flat-out wrong, since it's the coach essentially trumping the wishes of a parent, which is wholly inappropriate.
Virg
based on the results of the student monitoring program has concluded that narcissistic personality disorder, self-loathing and abject depression are far more prevalent than ever thought. Researchers cited the prevalence of posed-for pictures and awful, contrite, self-pitying poetry on "MySpace" as evidence.
Without using complex legalise jibjab, I think it's simple. Of course, parents should be doing this in the first place, but times are changing. It's ok for schools to look, but unless they spot a specific threat, like "we smoked weed in the school's restroom", then they should leave it be. If they spot an unrelated threat, such has semi nude pics or drug use off campus, then it would be nice of the school to inform the parents, but not take any official action or be involved in any part of the process. Don't mix parenting issues with administrative action! In the case of a private school, they can do whatever they want. They're allowed to choose only the best students to represent their school, that's the whole point in their existence. But public has no right to choose the quality of students, they are tax payers, and that's all that they have to be. I don't mind them helping, parents these days seem to need it, but I do mind them taking official action on unrelated incidents. But as some others pointed out, where do you draw the line on unrelated and related. And where is the line between affecting and not affecting other students. For example, the incident may have happened out of school, but it affects people who go to that school. Taking drugs on your own time can affect your grades, and other students if you influence them into doing the same. It's all shady. The simple answer is that our parents need to do their job (and quit calling it a job) and install some common sense into their kids. Maybe give them a good beating (if that's still legal). But that will never happen. This problem will always exist, it's human nature.
I find it funny though, because I have a friend that is a teacher (different school) and she says the last thing that she wants is to become the parent for the kids. I'm sure the instructors that conduct the extracurricular activities will be the ones that have to enforce this, so I wonder how they feel about the board's decision...
Is that in many places, the pictures would be illegal, but they could happily f*ck somebody over the age of age and be fully within the law... at least until they take pictures.
The supreme court has already ruled on similar nonsense from schools and school districts.
The school district has jurisdiction inside school _only_.
Outside, kids have the same rights as any citizen including free speech (the issue of minor vs adult is for law enforcement to figure out and has no bearing).
This won't last through a single challenge. No way, no how.