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Microsoft Talks Daily With Your Computer
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft Corp. acknowledged Wednesday that it needs to better inform users that its tool for determining whether a computer is running a pirated copy of Windows also quietly checks in daily with the software maker.
The company said the undisclosed daily check is a safety measure designed to allow the tool, called Windows Genuine Advantage, to quickly shut down in case of a malfunction."
The EULA is suppose to disclose this daily call-in feature. Lauren Weinstein, who is co-founder of People for Internet Responsibility, was one of the first people to notice the daily communications to Microsoft. Report from Yahoo.com"
The EULA is suppose to
That should be 'supposed'. What happened to the 'd'?
disclosed this
Oh, there it is.
... quickly shut down in case of a malfunction.
So Genuine Advantage needs to contact the mothership in order to be told that it's broken and needs to terminate?
Please.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Just one more reason NOT to use Windows as my operating system!
"Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." Notebooks of Lazarus Long, Robert A. Heinlein
*wraps computer in tin foil and duct tape*
BRING IT ON!!!
XP Phone Home!
Anyone sniff out the offending packets yet? I'm sure they can't be too hard to identify. Probably simple HTTP posts.
If nobody has I'll sniff anything going to Microsoft's Class B (207.46.*.*) later tonight.
--
From Northern Virginia? Visit Fairfax Underground! (Just added: Fairfax County wiki, need submissions)
I guess they forgot to disclose that in the EULA. Honest mistake, stuff happens. Now let's go back to not worrying about DRM or Net Neutrality because Big Bussiness is looking out for our best interests.
My moms computer which was bought from Best Buy and NEVER had windows re-installed on it was determined by Microsoft to be "not genuine". What fucking bullshit, I never was a Microsoft hater before that even though I used OS X, but calling my mom a criminal even though she isnt is just plain fucking bullshit. Microsoft, you made me a hater, though out of principle I refuse to use "M$"
Monstar L
The article is a bunch of fluff. Here is the boiled down version.
1. The Microsoft Genuine Advantage tool is installed on many computers now and checks to see if your copy of Windows is legit.
2. Microsoft wants a safety switch in case this tool starts causing PCs around the world to explode. Thus the program checks with Microsoft once a day to see if it should shut itself off.
Microsoft is not spying on you. This is a safety feature that I'm glad is included. Did you know your computer also checks with them daily to update your time with the atomic clock? Where's the Slashdot story for that?
TFA says "your computer", but aren't all Windows installs "my computer" on the desktop? Shouldn't it say "your my computer"? Or is it "my your computer"?
Ah screw it! And screw Microsoft, too.
The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
I knew my PC was cheating on me after I got a Mac. But Microsoft...
"MicroSoft Talks Daily With Your Computer" ;-)
This implies that we all have either pirate copies of Windows, or have Windows at all. And a 'net connection.
Being Slashdot, you have to praise the editors for what they didn't do. In this case they didn't write it as Micro$oft, MicroShaft or MicroShit.
Good job, boys! Have a cookie!
Trolling is a art,
Just the other night my copy of ZoneAlarm was alerting me that this exe was trying to make a shout-out to the Internet. A little searching told me what this was, so I set it to permanently deny the request. Problem solved!
Anyone with a non-MS software firewall will see this POS phoning home all the time.
MicroSoft
So why are we talking about their 'tools?'
Honesty may be the best policy, but by process of elimination, dishonesty is the second best policy.
I heard horror stories of people with 'acquired' versions of Windows XP who went to the 'new' 'Windows Update' service and ended up with an annoying tray icon constantly reminding them that their version of XP is pirated.
But you know, I havent been to WindowsUpdate in over a year.
I use a great (and free) tool provided by microsoft themselves - called "MBSA" (Microsoft Base Security Analyzer) to download and install updates.
With MBSA, I can do a quick install of Windows XP with SP2 integrated in vmware, then run this tool, and find out that (as of yesterday) there are 39 hotfixes needed for vanilla XPSP2 install, and it gives me direct (no WGA crap) links to download these updates. All I have to do then is save them all one by one, integrate them into a XP SP2 iso image, and use this pre-integrated disk to install with.
Since i reinstall windows every few months this is not a problem, and for those who insist on keeping windows machine installed longer, they can simply use MBSA to download incremental updates and install them manually.
Here at Microsoft, we care about the Customer Experience. As a result, we've taken the following measures to make sure your experience is as pleasant and beneficial to you as possible.
- Our new operating system, Windows Vista, requires only the best high-end hardware so that, even on a system well beyond the power you should ever need, you'll still get the true Windows Experience(TM)
- The new Windows Media Player 11 features all-new and exclusive DRM, or Degradation Resistment Technology by Microsoft, which not only provides wonderful sound in the new and improved WMA format, but protects your rights as well.
- Our operating systems now report back with system information and other information which we feel should be collected from your system at any given time to improve your computing experience.
Microsoft: Where do we want to take you today?
"Everything worth innovating today will go to court tomorrow."
I don't have Windows. So Microsoft doesn't talk to my computer. Wouldn't a more accurate title be "Microsoft talks daily to Windows"?
Considering how often Windows is pirated, I can't say this surprises me. Their excuse is stupid. They should just say "Look, we know people pirate. So we're going to check. If you don't like it, tough." Don't hide it. I'm not saying they're right or wrong to do this -- just that they should be up front about it if they are going to.
It won't make a dent in their sales. Whether or not you hate Microsoft, love Linux/Apple, or cling to OS/2 -- Microsoft is currently the top dog. Right or wrong; I'm not taking a stance on that, here. It's going to take a lot more than this to hurt Microsoft's bottom line.
So, you know, just tell us what information you're going to collect.
... The sound of massive floodgates opening can be heard.
Cue gigantic flood of contentless anti-Microsoft pro-Linux posts in three, two, one...
Seriously though, this is bullshit. I mean, I think a software maker should be able to defend their work from piracy, but this is kind of ridiculous. You'd think that if you buy the fucking software with your own money, you wouldn't have to call home - whether you like it or not - to continue using it, but apparently we don't actually own property these days when it comes to software. (As if that's something new.) No, we're just leasing it from the vendor for a one-time payment - for now, anyway - and when it comes to piracy, everybody's a suspect. That really makes me smile. It makes me smile in that crazyass B-movie axe murderer kind of way, you know, before the stupid co-star gets what they have coming so we can forget they ever existed in the first place.
Redirect 207.46.*.* to 255.255.255.255. Only stop doing this when you feel the need to update. Disable automatic updates and all other update services except when you want to update. Problem solved. Really, if people just took the stance of "Why does this thing need to communicate to another computer?" instead of "Why shouldn't I allow this thing to talk to another computer?", 99% of security issues would be complete bork. But, of course, that requires common sense.
What the??? You are upset because some corporations name was intercapped? Are you going to go into apoplexy every time somebody intercaps some corporations name?
What kind of an insane person cares about that?
evil is as evil does
Lazar said that so far, about 60 percent of users who were offered the piracy check decided to install it.
Really? Decided seems to imply some sort of informed consent. From what I've read about this thing, there are a number of people who are surprised to have this on their system and have received it as part of their automatic updates without actually being aware of it. I certainly wouldn't opt to download something like this.
You think you'll get modded down for Microsoft bashing? It's like hating Communists during the McCarthy era, you can't go wrong! =P
Microsoft should stick with the WGA to be validated only during updates. Otherwise, if someone hacks it and rerouts that message, they can grab all sorts of good authentication information that can be used to further more piracy. It seems to me that WGA is a very needed tool for Microsoft (given the amount of piracy outside the US), but they implemented it very poorly.
Validation should occur on an as-needed and secure basis _only_, and not however often Microsoft would like. It's practices like these today that leave bigger security holes for tomorrow.
There are times when, after the fact, I want to find out what communications with the internet took place around a certain time. Like when I get called in to remove malware from a friend's PC. I can tell from the install date/time on the malware's directory, etc. when it came in. I'd like to be able to work from that to find out what was going on around that time to see what got it started.
Is there a program that logs all accesses to the internet FROM MY PC? A web server typically logs all requests that come into it. I'm looking for something that provides a similar log for my PC.
The reason for the DNS Name and IP Address is that I have a slew of entries in my HOSTS file to redirect "Bad" sites to home. See: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.zip. This log would allow me to track when attempts to these blocked addresses were attempted. A log with a gazillion 127.0.0.1 entries isn't much help; logging the domain name that got looked up and which resulted in the 127.0.0.1 would be much more help.
I suppose I could launch Ethereal Network Protocol Analyzer but it seems to put quite a load onto my system and I am concerned the overhead may cause it to drop packets. Maybe I'm not configuring it right (any suggestions for a lightweight install?). Or, is there a smaller, less resource-intensive application which can do this for me?
If such a simple thing existed, and were widely implemented, I suspect applications phoning home would be detected much sooner.
any file that ends with .exe
sig goes here!
Its like Microsoft is now the Sony of the software industry!
And who is the Microsoft of the software industry?
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
If they truly wanted your system to be safe (and "explosion"-free), they wouldn't install the Genuine Advantage tool in the first place.
It is appropriate for an NTP service to update a system's time once a day. It's a legitimate function, providing a useful service to the computer's owner/user. It can also be easily disabled, in most cases, if the owner/user does not wish for such capabilities. In most cases, the user would have actively had to install it in the first place, or at least consent to its use (ie. during a Linux installation).
This Windows "feature" reportedly cannot be easily disabled nor removed. Not only that, but it doesn't provide a useful feature to the computer user. And that's ignoring the security issues involving it.
If Microsoft has to include such functionality to prevent failure of a piece of its software, it should just remove the vulnerable software in the first place. That's the only sensible thing to do.
Has anyone get the info on which port it uses or hosts it contacts? I'm thinking that it might be time to update my outgoing NAT firewall rules...
...how does Microsoft only have a Class B? Could it be, as with everything else, that Apple beat them to the party?
There's no such thing as fashionably late in technology. This only proves the obvious: Microsoft is hopelessly square.
Bonsai Kitten: TNG
On my token PC (the important stuff is all on MacOS X), I got the "we have updates for you today" notification. Since I -never- fully trust any update (even those from Apple), I checked "manual/custom install" (I forget exactly what it was called, the -opposite- of fully automatic). Right there, I saw the Pilot Windows Genuine Advantage (tm, I'm sure!) program being offered for installation, and declined. (I've heard too many horror stories about Microsoft deciding you're not running 'real Windows' and shutting the computer down, including those included in this thread.)
To anyone who wonders how this stuff got on their machine, I say "Next time, check to see what's being installed." And to those who saw this and granted permission for it to be installed, "What did you think this was going to do? Physically search your CD drawer for the install CD package?"
And to Microsoft I wonder, "OK what -is- the advantage of 'Genuine Windows'? Does it lesson my likelihood of bugs or of security holes?" But I will say that the one time I needed to talk to Microsoft about a CD read error, I did get through to a human (in Canada, eh?) and he sent me a new CD. So I will certainly admit that's an advantage of having a valid serial number for Windows that is not registered elsewhere. But I didn't need no stinkin' spyware to get THAT advantage.
dave
The last copy of Windows that I owned was "genuine", as well. I still dropped them once they started trying to push DRM and activation on me with XP.
The "discovery" sounds more like a weak excuse for outright spying. So what happens to the user who - shock - doesn't connect their fine Microshlock product to the public internet? Does the fine Microshlock operating system stop operating? Must one call in every week for permission to continue (trying) to use this fine operating system? I don't buy the story and wish I could give windows the deep six it deserves.
... you never installed the update in the first place. Mwahahaha! For once, a bad habit of not installing updates right away pays off.
Your Computer: Hey Sweetie!
M$: Hi Schnookums!
Your Computer: Just checking in
M$: I love you honey
Your Computer: Bye Bye Baby
M$: Sweet Dreams
Your Computer: No you hangup
M$: No no you hangup
i used uinux in the older days , switched to Linux 10 years ago and now use ubuntu . never had any problems with "are you legit ? or are you stealing from us ? i would never want a company to treat me like i was a illegal alien . one like that doesnt get my money
What I want to know, what else does it do? If it can shut down a program, can shut down other programs? Will this also secretly enforce music DRM, or other such things? What else is it sharing with the mothership, other than this "Genuine Advantage"?
You stopped being a customer of Microsoft once they decided to enable GenuineCheck.exe for all downloads. Your a thief, even if you own a legit Windows licence( I own +8). If that doesn't insult you then you must be braindead. Name one retailer that comes into your home looking for stolen goods?
Switch, or continue being called a theif by Microsoft.
Enjoy,
It's just the normal noises in here.
I doubt Microsoft can understand the languages Debian Linux Speaks.
I'm a Book
On the Bookshelf
Or did he really mean...
This is...
O
U
T
R
A
G
E
O
U
S
!
That's why Ghost is such an important tool! 1/Create Ghost image of your OS 2/Go to MS let them install what they want 3/Check for updates & write down KB# but don't install anything 4/Download the KB's you need to your HD 5/Restore the image you made & install the updates you downloaded. Now you have your updates without any MS garbage on your PC. In case you didn't notice media player has been calling home for years & that doesn't seem to bother anyone!
I use my laptop about once per month (I use it almost exclusively for travel) and boy, Windows builds quite a backlog. The most annoyng part is when it does its updates even though I click the CANCEL button. Did anyone ever see the "reboot now" window pop up in the middle of your presentation ? It's on a par with Clippy.
One more reason not to I guess. Like I needed one.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Saw it trying to "phone home" through ZoneAlarm and nipped it in the bud right there.
"The company said the undisclosed daily check is a safety measure designed to allow the tool, called Windows Genuine Advantage, to quickly shut down in case of a malfunction, a feature commonly known as crashing."
Liberty in your lifetime
A) They didn't tell anyone the software would do this.
B) We are supposed to trust MS that this thing is only asking MS if it needs to be shut off? What the hell kind of reason is that to phone home?
C) Why the hell does this software need to be running all the time? It's taking resources doing nothing but asking MS if it should be shut off?! Why can't it be started up and shut off only when needed?
D) There have been false reports of pirated software. Will this software one day just decide you're using a pirated version and kill your machine? Some people depend on their computers to feed themselves. If this software screws up and kills a machine and the owner has several days of downtime who's going to compensate them?
E) If you really think MS (or any large corporation for that matter) is above abusing phone home programs you got blinders on. Why should we trust large companies with our private informaton while not trusting actual people with our social security number?
F) The reason megacorps and the people who run them are so successful is always a combination of luck, smarts, and ability to stab people in the back and laugh about it. I'm not saying large corporations should be ended, but they should be approached with caution. They will try to get away with whatever the hell they can. It's the consumer's job to keep them in check... Well it's the goverment's job too, but they seem to be doing a shit job to say the least.
-Derick
In my blog^H^H^H^Hjournal I stated why Genuine Advantage only benefits spammers and virus writers. It's like if Bill Gates was holding the whole internet hostage against viruses and malware.
"Oh, that's a nice drive C you have there. It would be a shame if... something happened to it."
Microsoft could do something much more beneficial to the world if he remotely deactivated all network access in pirated windows- at least we would be safe from unpatched machines spreading viruses and spam.
And the unpatched machines happen to be the only ones which do NOT have Genuine Advantage installed.
Oddly enough, my not-so-genuine copy of windows runs just fine... (What the hell does that mean anyways, how can you have a "genuine copy?") The reference to pirated windows software is completely fictional, of course.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050323094149/http://w ww.hevanet.com/peace/microsoft.htm
and now for the obligatory Slashdot M$-bashing link:
http://www.windows-sucks.com/
WGA, or were blindsided by automatic update, here are a couple of suggested workarounds: Disable Non Genuine Windows Warning Messages.
Mine says "Pwn3d C0mput3r", so I just don't care anymore.
It was changed. Interesting.
Mine does!
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
I use a mac, so when I was updating XP for my girlfriend's computer, and noticed the update entitled "Windows Genuine Advantage", I naturally assumed this was a bad program, but didn't know what it was for, exactly. Why? Well, look at other famously bad things with good names... No Child Left Behind Act (16 states sued the federal government over this, because it dropped funding in 99% of cases), or the infamous Patriot Act. I'm just keeping an eye out for the "Windows Lead in to Gold" service patch.
moox. for a new generation.
So when Microsoft talks to my computer, it says
"Get bent, Monkey Boy!"
...well, OK, I lied. I run a pirated version of Windows.
But I'm willing to tolerate its indiscretions because
it has a million boobies on its screen.
What program do you use or how do you integrate them into the XP SP2 iso image?
For example, if the company suddenly started seeing a rash of reports that Windows copies were pirated, it might want to shut down the program to make sure it wasn't delivering false results.
See? If the article is correct, it's already been turned off. Nothing to see here.
90 days for hackers to find an exploit in Wga to subvert microsoft's own servers into spambots.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
Does anyone know if this is sent encrypted? I assume that this is encrypted to prevent the w4rez kiddies from useing it to turn off the legitchek. If it's encrypted how do I establish that it isn't sending any private information to MS, and will I need verify what it sends every time there is an update to the legitcheck tool? Most companies do some level of verification of each patch MS issues, depending on thier level of paranioa and/or legal requirements for thier computer systems that may include makeing sure no private information leaves the system when it is not supposed to (i.e. hospitals). With this in place (and don't kid yourself, at some point MS is going to make this mandatory) that mean verifying the updates and verifying what commands the remote system this checks in with is giveing it. before I ever instal this I would need to know the level of control this gives the system it checks in with, can it only disable teh legit check, can it disable any program, can it run any program and most importantly was it written is a secure enough manner that it won't become the next SQL slammer if someone manages to compromise it's check process?
Ubuntu phones home to check for updates automatically, to set the time, and do useful things like that. The difference, of course, is that this is open source and you know exactly what is going on and why, or at least you could easily find out if you wanted to.
Plus, you have a local copy of the updates in the future in case MS were to stop supporting Windows XP in order to force everyone onto Vista DRM...
I think I love you...
Syncing the system clock is not ``phoning home". . . .
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Is their an uninstaller for WGA? I use this non-MS site for updates instead.
http://windowsupdate.62nds.com/
I just restored a screwed-up Vaio laptop using the restore CD set that came with the purchase and Microsoft can't even verify that it's legitimate. Updates are not forthcoming at this point until I call them and get it straightened out.
Just effing lovely.
Someday we'll all look back on this and plow into a parked car.
"C) Why the hell does this software need to be running all the time? It's taking resources doing nothing but asking MS if it should be shut off?! Why can't it be started up and shut off only when needed?"
From what I gathered it's meant to be a feature that disables the "You are a pirate" warning if there's a bug in the software (or malware...) that falsely accuses too many people. If too many false-hits are reported, they can disable it right away and not annoy millions of people. Assuming I interpreted that correctly, and assuming (tee hee) that they're telling the unvarnished truth here, I'd say the daily checks are a Good Thing TM.
That said, I share your concerns and am not terribly interested in defending this 'feature'. They do not have a good track record.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Heh, telling your users why something is phoning home is not the time to read from the BoFH callendar...
Help us build a better map!
TFA says "your computer", but aren't all Windows installs "my computer" on the desktop? Shouldn't it say "your my computer"? Or is it "my your computer"?
I got a totally different result myself. When I ran Windows Update on my parents laptop about an hour ago Windows Update renamed 'My Computer' to 'All your computer are belong to Microsoft' and changed the system name to 'Skynet subnode 3964270017356334576934-X371N02'. Has anybody else experienced this?
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
...this took so long too come to light. I mean, did anyone every really doubt that this was the case? I didn't.
I just got off the phone with a friend who asked me if I wanted a "legit" $20 copy of Office for OS X. I told him "no thanks". People just don't "get" that for me, not running Microsoft products is not a sacrifice, but an improvement.
Of course Apple, and OS X are probably doing the same damned thing, but I'm only running their OS until another couple of issues with Linux for the PPC get worked out and I'll ditch this baby too.
What's the difference?
Besides, everybody knows it should be spelled "Micro$oft":-)
They really are bad. Aren't they?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
From the article:
"'It's kind of a safety switch,' said David Lazar, who directs the Windows Genuine Advantage program."
I stumbled on a better analogy though:
No, it's kind of electrodes shoved up your customer's ass.
Too bad that some people will be "shocked" to find out about it, but fitting that it keeps your companies reputation in the toilet, where it has been for some time.
If you ever install the Microsoft mouse driver from the CD that accompanies the mouse, you'll find that it too calls in each day.
Why does a mouse driver need to call in daily?
A better question is: Why install the driver at all?
Pretty well every version of Windows recognizes a Microsoft mouse with no need for drivers from the CD.
This communication can be turned off by deleting a DLL.
I remember a TV advert when I was little where McGruff the crime dog taught kids the dangers of talking to strangers. Having your computer talk to Microsoft is like having your kids talk to John Wayne Gacy in full clown attire. You don't see the harm until it is too late.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
It's funny how there's all that talk about spyware on Windows. :)
But Windows itself IS spyware, so I guess that makes all other spyware just "3rd party system utilities"?
Yes, well the problem with this is that MBSA is only available to people who have already used Microsofts WGA tools to convince MS that they have a genuine copy of windows.
"You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Long ago I renamed mine to "Bill's Computer." I just didn't feel like it was mine anymore. ='(
This sig rocks the casbah.
And I noticed this after the latest WGA band-aid. It tries to gain access once per boot, and does not appear to be disable-able through msconfig. I've hit "deny" on the authorization popup so far, and have had no problems.
You can integrate most anything into a Windows installer with The Unattended Windows Tutorial.
Simon's Rock College
Oh, yeah that is a good way to disclose something to the public. You can write in under your plan to assassinate the president and take over the world.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
In contrast, the ``phoning home" talked about in the article involved sending information TO Microsoft about your computer but for their purposes.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
it probably didn't when he downloaded it, or if it did, it was the easy-bypass one that didn't also install and app to constantly check
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.
And how long until their regular check-in procedure for whether or not your computer is running legal copies of software morphs into a marketing opportunity by linking your ip address to your windows registration for tracking purposes? It would be the ultimate cookie, since it could essentially link every Windows user on the internet to the purchaser of the windows license, no matter where the computer moves to. Companies would leap all over this database in backroom deals, since it could allow advertisers or other companies to know the full identity of users the moment they bring up a page.
I mean, c'mon. Anything? Maybe you've heard that this is all just an urban legend, started by hippies? Please, guys? All I hear coming from the Northwest is crickets chirping!
"Microsoft: Where do we want to take you today?"
Surely that should be 'How do we want to take you today?'
Microsoft can basically do whatever they want at the moment, sure, if they keep doing stupid stuff like this it's going to get at people, but, unless they start publicly exicuting pirates, it's going to take a LONG time for people to give up the only OS most of them know. Esp gamers and the like that quite alot of the time require windows, it's OK saying "you can wine it" etc but it's really not THAT simple.
Some laptops now have the ability to phone home from the BIOS independently from the operating system. Combine that with the Treacherous Control (aka Trusted Computing) platform and you have the makings for a real big brother setup. I don't know about in the US but in Germany the government could order a laptop company to install an unremoveable and undetectable rootkit.
D) There have been false reports of pirated software.
Yea, I was talking to a friend of mine who sells laptops. He had some IBMs with legit copies of XP on them, but when people tried to run update it said the copies were "suspicious" and put the "Activate" thing on the start menu. Come to find out that it was just Internet Explorer 6 was blocking some Active-x controls. The whole thing was a tech support nightmare. People who bought them off eBay were calling him and accusing him of selling illegal copies of XP.
I am running 3 copies of WinXP, and own 5 legal licenses. I still don't want MS invading my privacy. If the only thing your worried about is whether it annoys you or not, you shouldn't mind your neighbor putting a web cam in your shower as long as he covers the little red light.
I usually spell it micro-soft. Sometimes I write Ms. When I am talking to a fanboi or a shill I type M$ that really seems to piss them off to no end.
It's true however that they are amongst the least ethical companies around.
evil is as evil does
This is way off topic, but it's been driving me nuts. Where is your sig from?
--MarkusQ
The daily check is different. It does check if your OS is "genuine" once every 90 days (still more than 1 time), but the daily check is a kill-switch on the checker, not the OS. At least according to TFA.
And Google Toolbar with pagerank checking enabled tells Google every url you ever visit.
This seems pretty cool. So does this allow you to "install" programs into the ISO file (i.e., not install it in your current Windows installation)? If so, I guess this is better than imaging your harddrive, eh?
Why does WGA have to talk back home? "Your copy of Windows may have been, according to our records. ARRG. Press "OK" to uninstall Windows." Nah, I'm sure they just flash a scary popup to the general public and they have to phone in to get ti fixed and that's some nice $$$ right there.
if microsoft can remotely 'unlegitimize' a copy of windows,
couldn't a virus or worm massively remotely cripple loads of machines
by exploiting this...?
It's from the novel "The Great Time Machine Hoax" by Keith Laumer.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I don't have a wgatray.exe, cool.
Microsoft seems too dense to realize that they've squandered trust, and need to be above reproach like Caesar's wife (see Shakespear's "Julius Caesar" ;-)). That means that they need to make sure to disclose these kinds of things; failure to do so (before a third party does it for them) just makes them all the less trustworthy. This episode demonstrates sheer idiocy on their part.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
I note that most vote talleying machines use windows software. By this I mean both the kiosk s you vote on and the central tabulation systems. In many cases the central tabulators are networked. In some cases the kiosks are.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Microsoft can talk to my computer? Wow. I did not even know my computer can speak FUD!
Coderz 4 Life
had to omit the brackets to make the route command work, so...route -p add 207.46.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 [192.168.0.254] becomes route -p add 207.46.0.0 mask 255.255.0.0 192.168.0.254 Enjoy!
Justify my text? I'm sorry, but it has no excuse.
All your computers are belong us..
Reboot required
Reboot required
but it works perfectly using WINE on Linux... :)
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
You're an idiot, not a libertarian. Libertarians believe that once you've bought a piece of software and it's on your computer, it belongs to you and should not be tampered with. Please don't use that adjective to describe yourself any more, as it is far from accurate and gives the rest of us a bad name.
Anybody know what port this dials home on?
Supposing that the warning is legit, and not spyware (I can't tell you what to look for as I've never seen either one) MS will fix it for you. If you bought a computer with Windows installed on it, beleving it was legal, you just call up their activation division. You give them the details of where you got it and such, and they'll issue you a legit license of Windows at no charge. They are much more interested in shutting down shops that are faking Windows licenses than getting your $100.
My bet is it's spyware or a virus. Best Buy is too large and stands to lose too much using illegit Windows copies.
Also major OEM copies of Windows don't activate, they don't need to. They have their license burned in to their BIOS, and the install is customized to look for it. All the Gateways and Dells at work just need to be installed from their version of Windows (we have disks for each) and it never asks for a key, never activates. So I'm really guessing it's the spyware thing going on.
For that, either try getting an anti-spyware tool (I recommend trying MS Defender, Spybot, and Adaware) or just do a restore. IF it's a new PC it should have a restore partition as those have become real popular as of late. Just back up her data, boot the system and press the button it tells you, F10 is a popular choice. It'll reinstall the OS, drivers and apps to the ship state. Then patch the system, but Defender and AVG (both free) on there and have your mom be more careful.
By the way, the process of getting Defender will give you a good idea if the message is real or not. Their site will check the WGA. If it passes, well you know that it's a legit copy.
As I said, if it really turns out it's not legit, just call MS and get a legit one. They can take it up with Best Buy, if they wish.
You can also uninstall the WGA tool that does the popups. I odn't remember the name of it, I run XP-64 which doesn't have WGA, but it should be in add/remove programs.
You all know that Firefox, BY DEFAULT, checks for updates and installs them before letting the user know right?
Where are the cries of foul here?
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
What's with that wheel?
it's been driving me nuts.
Yarr!
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
I knew it! I knew that there was something going on!
I always thought it was too co-incidental when things crashed.
Now we know - Windows and MS's servers are whispering quietly to each other:
MS: "Psst... Is it inconvenient yet?"
Win: "Nah, not yet."
MS: "What about now?"
Win: "Just hang on a minute... Pardon the pun."
MS: "What's happening now?"
Win: "Well, he's up to 20 pages now and he hasn't hit Ctrl+S to save..."
MS: "And Autosave?"
Win: "Who do you think I am? I made sure that was disabled ages ago! When should I go?"
MS: "...Wait for it.... Wait..... NOW!"
STOP 0x0000001E (4a4a4a4a4a, 4a4a4a4a4a, 4a4a4a4a4a, 4a4a4a4a4a) KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
Win: "ROFL! He's screaming and kicking the desk! Aw man, you should have seen him hit the monitor! What a wanker!"
Now we know...
What's your point of reference here ?
There's a hell of a lot of companies out there orders of magnitude more unethical than Microsoft. Tobacco, gambling, military, medical, clothing, jewellery, etc.
On the 1 - 10 scale of Corporate Unethicalness (tm), Microsoft would struggle to hit a 3.
Is there a way to make the phone call at exactly the same hour every day? Microsoft will not be very happy about it, after all.
Not only that, but can we force the report to be send multiple times? just to be sure data won't get lost on the way home.
It's true that tobacco kills lots of people a year. They are near the top of the list for me. Ms is not a threat to humans, it's a threat to humanity. The ability to communicate freely, to pass information from one generation to another, from one human to another is what separates humans from the animals. Ms is actively trying to curb this freedom and working in close partnerships with others who want to curb this freedom.
On another point IT is arguably the most imporant industry on the planet. It is literally the glue that holds modern civiliation together. Ms is bad for IT, Ms is bad for civilization.
evil is as evil does
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You might want to look into 'popularity-contest'
This is a program that reports back the name of every package installed on your computer, plus how often and when the program was last used. Microsoft can only dream of installing something this invasive in Windows. The backlash would kill them.
It's installed by default on Ubuntu, although not enabled by default.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Here is how i avoided it. Google how to bypass the genuine check, run windows update and dont install WGA. It is that easy, if you dont install the update you dont get the dumb program. Also, NEVER let windows update automaticly do anything.
Even Better Solution:
Just opt-out of the "genuine advantage" crap. Seriously, what does this "non-pirated advantage" give you anyway? Crappy updates to WMP10 that you don't want anyway? Security updates are (supposedly, I think) available for every computer. What else... Royale theme? Wow, the colors look a little different.
I've actually be anti-virus free, windows update-free, and "genuine advantage"-free. Haven't gotten a virus or worm in over 2 years. Good alternative to updates, etc:
(a) not being a dumbass regarding email attachments, etc
(b) Peerguardian 2
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
"Notify me but don't automatically download or install them". (In Control Panel -> System -> Automatic Updates.)
Then you can pick and choose which updates you want, and when you decline one, it pops up a message in which you can check "Never ask me again".
Too late for those who trusted Microsoft, though...now you have to do a lot of registry tweaks and stuff.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
n/t
Umm...what? All NTP does is get the current time from the internet. What are you thinking of?
You forgot to mention that WGA validation is required to download mbsa.msi. you can google it, but the latest version (2) ends up somewhere in China, not at download.microsoft.com
Being a VB dork, I should probably name mine "Me".
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
1. Get people used to OS phoning home
2. Get bill passed to allow remote killing of PCs (NB, am big corp so should be easy)
3. Install 'innocent' patch
4. ???
5. Profit!
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Your paranoia is showing. About the only "freedom" Microsoft is actively trying to curb is the "freedom" to violate copyright[0].
On another point IT is arguably the most imporant industry on the planet. It is literally the glue that holds modern civiliation together. Ms is bad for IT, Ms is bad for civilization.
Maybe if you're a thirteen year old kid who thinks "modern civilisation" equates to ipods, Myspace and mobile phones.
"IT" has only been a significant part of "civilisation" for - at a stretch - thirty years (realistically, closer to ten).
I also feel compelled to point out that Microsoft has been one of the key factors in making "IT" so important in the first place. By pretty much any objective measure, Microsoft is *great* for IT.
I'm all for "fighting the man", but there are so many bigger, worthier targets than Microsoft out there it's just not funny (even if you restrict yourself to the area of "Intellectual Property" based corporations).
[0]Not that I personally have many qualms about violating copyright, but this "Microsoft is trying to oppress us" idiocy is really getting beyond a joke. Heaven help you if you were ever faced with *real* oppression. (That's the kind that actually puts your life at risk, rather than your ability to play the latest games for free.)
Excuse me, in what order did you write that date ?
When all numbers are below 12, it's quite hard to get a clue
Is it even 2006 ? 1906 and 1006 fits in too...
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Perhaps I need to combine the first two sentences for you.
"popularity-contest" is a program that reports back the name of every package installed on your computer, plus how often and when the program was last used.
It's not a Windows program. It's a Linux program (originally just Debian) and is installed by default in Ubuntu.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Oh, I see now. Still, it's disabled by default, you're not forced to use it. If Genuine Advantage was entirely optional and disabled unless the user explicitly says so, then that would be reasonable. But it's not.
A virus could use one of the "Product-Key Changer" scripts (see http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=328874) to install a pirated product key on every infected computer (whiping all traces of the original key).
This would render millions of genuine installations indistinguishable from pirated installations. What a mess for Microsoft! They would have to immediately "kill forever" the WGA helper, and maybe even remove the WGA check on Windows Update.
Such a virus would be a hard lesson to learn for the writers of all kinds of automated "genuine" checks.
Regards,
M.
Isn't boasting about being "too much of a libertarian" like boasting about being "too much of a bedwetter?"
Listen p*ssy. I'm sure your the same homo that posted earlier about alf's boner and you just want to remain anonymous fo
Genuine Advantage Notification won't install until you accept the EULA. Microsoft are not _completely_ evil! :-)
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
"Your paranoia is showing. About the only "freedom" Microsoft is actively trying to curb is the "freedom" to violate copyright[0]."
Ms lobbied very hard for the DMCA. If you think the only thing at stake here is copyright violation then you are still sleeping.
""IT" has only been a significant part of "civilisation" for - at a stretch - thirty years (realistically, closer to ten)."
Clearly we have different viewpoints about the importance of IT in the modern world.
"I also feel compelled to point out that Microsoft has been one of the key factors in making "IT" so important in the first place. By pretty much any objective measure, Microsoft is *great* for IT."
Nonsense. More great actual and potential technologies have died because of Ms then for any other reason. Ms kills innovation.
"but there are so many bigger, worthier targets than Microsoft out there it's just not funny (even if you restrict yourself to the area of "Intellectual Property" based corporations)."
I disagree. Take out Ms and the whole thing comes crumbling down. Ms is the richest and most powerful company in IT and one of the most powerful companies in the world. Other then a few oil companies and walmart (all various degrees of evil) it's Ms.
evil is as evil does
I've discovered a patch which disables Windows' "phone home" reporting. It's a fairly large download, but it seems to work.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/f/d/3fd1a 09d-af15-4ab7-a554-0ac6c1e76c16/MBSASetup-EN.msi
Link straight to the file. (version 2.0)
So does this allow you to "install" programs into the ISO file
Yes, that's exactly what it's for. I did this when I last upgraded my PC, because I was going SATA RAID, knew that the drivers wouldn't be available on my XP Pro CD (it predates SP1), and couldn't be bothered to buy a floppy drive (I've not had one for years). I integrated the drivers, Service Pack 2 and a few other hotfixes.
Have a look at this article, which details using nLite to perform the slipstreaming (note that the link in the article is dead for me).
It took me a couple of goes to get right, but ultimately that was my fault for not paying proper attention. The tool itself is pretty cool, and lets you integrate pretty-much anything appropriate into the installation CD, as well as allowing you to set defaults, including the product key; if you wish, you can make a completely unattended setup disk - literally allowing you to boot off the CD and walk away.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
No.
We all knew this was going to happen sooner or later. Many of us thought it had already been going on. Few of us are surprised.
Speak for yourself!
With that attitude that's exactly what you'll likely end up with. Unless you dream about __fill-in-the-blank__ then, fine, give in and don't expect good things to come your way or to become of your best efforts.
Otherwise keep those curses to yourself.
Yes. If you fail to read the contracts you agree to, you may very well have your first-born taken away from you.
By denying Microsoft the rights you agreed to granting them, you are indeed in breach of contract. You are not doing what you agreed to do, simply put.
If you have a problem with this stuff - buy a Mac (and read the contract/EULA before you start using it) or run Linux (the same applies here).
Stop the brainwash
I heard horror stories of people with 'acquired' versions of Windows XP who went to the 'new' 'Windows Update' service and ended up with an annoying tray icon constantly reminding them that their version of XP is pirated.
Horror stories? I'm sorry, but really I feel as much sympathy for those who pirate software as I do for a company the size of MS whose software is pirated.
You don't want to have to put up with the systray icon? Pay for your damn software. Don't want to pay for it? Don't use it. That not acceptable to you? Fine, but stop whining about MS deciding that actually, they don't like piracy after all.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Two days ago on startup I got a message telling me that my version was not genuine. I almost fell down my chair in surprise and then got really mad. I bought my genuine windows XP DVD for about 300 CAN$ more than 4 years ago. I think it is unfair to label me as a pirate. 6 months ago I renewed completely my hardware and even had to call microsoft in order to re-register and activate my windows copy. They screwed up big time on that one. The last thing a paying customer wants to hear is : "Hey you're a thief!". At this moment, I'm really trying to see the advantage I had in buying the software. Maybe next time, I'll just do like what others did... Can't they just give me a break?
Or will it work with Wine? I think I could have some fun with this... :)
My wifes Dell computer shat all over itself...YAY windows... So we couldn't locate her original install disks, so we just slapped windows from anothe source and pressed on. Now that stupid WGA crap popped on and is being a pain. So I call MS "Hey...I have a valid license here, but we had to do an emergency restore before we could find the original disk and key. What can I do to make this thing quit complaining" Their answer (as it is to most windows problems "Reinstall windows". Ok...so you bastards slap some silly bullshit spyware crap on my computer, it starts causing problems, and then your fix action is "Reinstall". So now I can either reinstall, and pray that this XP disk survives all of its updates without being infected, taking days to recover everything that was installed and updating everything, or I can let it go and hope that MS doesn't decide to start disabling things with their silly WGA crap, or I can try the disable hacks and hope that solves the problem.
After this shit MS address space is getting blocked at my firewall. I will download critical updates manually from some other network and bring em on disk, but I am sick of this phone home crap.
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
"Commander Ballmer ... The time has come, execute Order Sixty-Six."
"Understood, Emperor Bill. Right, lock 'em in, guys, it's remoting time!"
I had a think about this earlier in the day, and realised that the privacy concerns are possibly quite secondary to what the WGA tool's behaviour could lead to. Effectively, this could become a test case for more invasive measures from our friends at Microsoft in the name of revenue protection and customer service. It further highlights the fact that EULAs are rarely read by most people, and even less frequently understood. Effectively, I sum up my thoughts here: http://blogs.itoperations.com.au/chris/general/mic rosofts-fueling-of-the-fud/
Thankfully, Microsoft isn't talking daily with *my* computer. See my sig.
Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
Is this transaction between my system and MS encrypted? I need to be able to determine the contents of this transaction, to prove that no sensitive data (HIPAA/SEVIS/FERPA) is leaving my system.
... ?
Or, maybe I can use this to finally convince my management that sensitive information does not belong on a MS system, as we may never know when MS will peruse our data. I do not honestly expect MS to ever actually browse our data, but unless I can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that these "phone home" transactions do not, and will never, contain data, how can I trust this system? What if MS decides in their infinite wisdom to send debugging info home, and that contains a memory dump including even a single user record, containing name, address, SSN
Gotta love OSS - at least there is a code audit path, should I need to supply proof of behavior.
10b||~10b -- aah, what a question!
so we just slapped windows from anothe source and pressed on.
See, that was your mistake right there. You have slightly more sympathy from me - at least you actually had a licenced copy of Windows. However, you weren't using it. You *should* have contacted Dell and requested a valid restore disk set, or failing that, just stored your own one in a safe place.
Bottom line though is that you knowingly used an unlicensed copy of Windows and are now paying the price for it. In fact, I can only assume that you installed a version you weren't licenced to use (eg Pro rather than Home); or had the coa sticker come off the laptop too?
It's official. Most of you are morons.
A few weeks ago, my computer told me that MS has released the first of their updates which check for pirated copies of Windows and comes up with little nag screens if it decides that you have one. The blurb told me that this software could not be removed. I refused the update (and all that followed because--guess what--it gets worse) and we are in the process of changing to Ubuntu Linux. I would be very happy with it, if only my broadband modem would work--do the newer versions now include the proper modem driver?
About the software 'phoning home', hasn't it always done so? It's not just Windows, it's all sorts of 'handy' applications from what I heard.
Anyone who is on critical life support, and has a computer controlling their feeding intervals, is most-definitely NOT running Microsoft Windows. They would be running a real-time, embedded operating system with failsafe controls, such as VxWorks, Linux, BSD or one of the other systems that is designed specifically for this purpose. You can bet those systems CAN phone home too, in the event of a crisis (call 9-1-1, dial the pharmacy, call the home health aide, etc.)
while(Microsoft.doesDumbThings){
yellAtMicrosoft();
}
I figured that Windows was always in touch with the mother ship, but still, further evidence of the OS checking on me offends me. I paid for the copy of Windows on my winbox (not my primary computer, but my "make sure it works on Windows" test computer), and I don't need to be judged and constantly re-judged.
I don't need the GWA tool to constantly update itself - I think one verification is enough (and seems too much to me anyway).
I'm very proud of Bill Ball (of Ernie Ball Musical Stuff) for dumping the entire Microsoft line and going to less draconian stuff. He's got real integrity, a great business model, excellent products, and is doing just fine without Microsoft trying to "make sure his licenses are up to date and optimal", thank you very much.
A Passionate Independent Musician
Geez... when will it end. Oh, the humanity. :)
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
XPSP2 install, and it gives me direct (no WGA crap) links to download these updates.
That's awful funny, I'm running W2K SP4 and when I tried to install MBSA, it insisted on wanting installing that "Genuine Advantage" crap first. I have a legit copy of W2K, but I sure the heck am not going to rob Peter to pay Paul with my machine. Thankfully, I never have any of that "genuine" crap popping up when I use Windows Update. Then again, I learned long ago to stay far far away from XP. Just my observations.
Your email has been returned due to insufficent voltage.
There is a product you can buy for cheap called CrossOver Office and it allows you to run a great number of Windows programs including the latest versions Quicken, MS Office, and other popular products. Not all of them behave 100% exactly the same since the software is really running on a re-implementation of the Windows APIs and not all of them are perfect yet, but as time rolls on and more people buy CXOffice their team implements more and more of the code necessary to run Windows software in Linux.
Naturally, native software is better, but for those deal-breakers, maybe CXOffice can come to the rescue. Additionally, CodeWeavers donate their work back to the Wine project so if you're really hard up for cash, you can just download Wine for free and do the same thing. I do recommend trying CXOffice though - it has a graphical installer and configuration interface that makes it oodles easier to use than command-line Wine.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Mine probably needs counselling.
Maybe an intervention.
Umm, make that electroshock therapy.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Considering your sig, it's ironic that you repeat the brainwash that EULAs are contracts.
Contracts are signed by both parties and are legally-binding documents. EULAs are a hollow threat at best but when coupled with enough FUD to make people believe that by clicking 'I agree' they're actually signing something (especially in the situation where you've already opened the software box and broken the seal and any number of other things that makes it very difficult - if not impossible in some cases - to return the software).
When a EULA is held up in court as being a legally-enforcable contract, then I'll take your post seriously. But at this time, the only cases in which clicks count as signatures are for things like tax returns -- and usually those clicks are coupled with a personal code of your choosing so that at a later time they could verify that you did indeed agree to the terms when clicking because you 'signed' it with your PIN number. I have never seen a PIN number with a EULA before.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I'll ruin it: It's from Keith Laumer's "The Great Time Machine Hoax", copyright 1963,64. Sorry ScrewMaster, but I had to do it. It is a pleasant surprise to find another Laumer fan on here though!
Those of you unfamiliar with him, fix that by getting some Retief books from the library! He can be a little formulaic (okay, a lot formulaic), but it's always a great read.
but how do we fix it?
Two words: Informed consent. Just like they make us doctors do with the patients. Not buried somewhere between paragraph 587 and 589 of an EULA either. An up front, understandable, HONEST request for PERMISSION to do this and full disclosure of what kind of information is transmitted - EVERY TIME it wants to transmit. And if this is too nagging because the program wants to do it every day, then the default option is NO, until I give it permission.
This is my machine and I want to know exactly why it communicates with other machines, regardless of whose software my machine runs. And if I don't agree with said communication, I want to be able to stop it. Otherwise I want to be able to bill software companies for using up my CPU time. Hey if they can "license" software instead of sell it, why can't I "lease" my CPU to run their undisclosed programs?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
It appears to be a required "upgrade" if you use the Windows or Microsoft Update site.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Not bloody likely, but I am getting primed to jump ship by stuff like Genuine Advantage. As in "Microsoft is taking genuine advantage of me." I am not a big MS basher, but Redmond is getting worse and worse. I run Linux on my old box and am learning to do everything with it that I do with Windows. I really like it. The next rig I build might get bolted together with Linux in mind. Will I run Vista on that next upgrade? Not bloody likely... with Big Brother Bill peering in through the Windows.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
If someone had a certain item stolen and then looked in your window and saw that similar item in your house, they do not have the right to break down your door and check the serial # to make sure it isn't theirs. Yet for some reason big software companies have to right to invade my personal property (my computer) to verify that I actually own the software. This totally bypasses our entire legal system and our constitution and I have no idea why they are getting away with it.
So now every "genuine" copy of Windows calls home to Microsoft every day, to make sure it's still "genuine". Sure. That's all they're checking.
And what if Bill's servers say, "no"?
What if Bill's servers say, "How much would you pay to go anywhere today?"
Microsoft has phoned home for a long time. I've seen reports of this as early as June, 2000. I'm sure there are earlier instances. Now, to be fair, Firefox phones home for updates. I don't remember seeing a big warning that this was done, or what data was saved at the server, but I like the feature. Of course, if Microsoft is so worried about this app running that they want the chance to turn it off at a days notice as they claim, then, well, this is in a different class of phoning home.
I never clip my fingernails for fear of dangling symbolic links.
It is common knowledge that Microsoft knows what's best better than you do for both your computer and for you. That's why you put down that cold hard cash to get a license on their superb product in the first place. So if that product is now calling home you shouldn't break your tiny head on why it does that, but trust that there is a very good reason for it. Of course it is not in the EULA. It would be impossible to include the exact operation of the product in the EULA as that would require the complete source code and I shouldn't need to tell you what happens when incompetents like yourself read it, let alone (dare I say it) alter the divine perfection that it is. The ignorami running such crippled beasts as is Linux are criminally deprived of the protection and care that the product provides. They don't even have a home to call to. Poor sods. So if the product determines that your copy of the product is nothing other than a crudely pirated substandard abomination than you had better run to the store swiftly for the pleasure of putting down some more cash to get your grimy hands on the real thing and do a little back for all the good that Microsoft has selflessly done for you continues to do and will continue to do for ever and eternity. Amen. And you'd better do it quickly too, before your abomination connects to some funky server in Soviet Russia and your box is lost forever and all your .docs .ppts and who knows what become utterly indecipherable because only Microsoft engineers are smart enough to program a product capable of doing so.
The new cooperation with SuperCard will feature the following slogan and also allow you to more easily make your daily donation to Microsoft.
The product: $299 (daily). Freedom from Linux: priceless.
Sounds like a good class action to me.
Have anyone considerd what information is actually sent when validating? I read somewhere that a list of all the software installed on the computer is sent. If this is true then Microsoft is spying on you and probably testing its limits how much they can get away with.
Have pretty much decided to load an open OS on the next rig I build and just ignore Vista if I can still get my work done. (Should do.). I am running Vector Linux on my old PIII box and digging it more and more as I learn all the capabilities. With such tough free competition what could Redmond be thinking in the age of eroded privacy? Message to Big Brother Bill. I don't want you peering in my Windows.
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
someone reversed engineered their phone-home protocol and send :-)
them a bunch of spoofed non-genuine messages using their own IP addresses
So what is this Genuine thing doing each time it connects?
Connecting 123.123.222.1
Connected
Session 6/6/06-2:22AM
Genuine response: Still a pirate copy of XP, the bastard.
End os session.
Disconnecting
Maybe this is part of the NSA, computers with pirate XP are terrorists!
with mouse drivers calling daily and now the "genuine advantage" calling in daily you would expect that, by now, MS would have a database bigger than Google's. What are they going to do with this, anyway? BTW: I have a client who was told by Genuine Advantage that he had a pirated version of XP and that he had to pay for a new OS. I left him trying to find his sales receipt from a large, national, computer distributor.
Thank God I've been running Linux since 1993!!!
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Some people depend on their computers to feed themselves.
Anyone who is on critical life support, and has a computer controlling their feeding intervals, is most-definitely NOT running Microsoft Windows.
I believe the grandparent was referring to somebody who makes money using their computer (i.e. programmer, graphic designer, etc.), not people who have computers feed them...
Enigma
Maybe if you're a thirteen year old kid who thinks "modern civilisation" equates to ipods, Myspace and mobile phones.
What. Information Technoology. The stuff that lets me talk to people in Cambodia and Australia instantly. The stuff that has enabled almost all of the massive leaps forward in technology over the last thirty years, from jet planes to medicine. And this is what you trivialise to Myspace.
"IT" has only been a significant part of "civilisation" for - at a stretch - thirty years (realistically, closer to ten).
So have effective ICBMs. You want to tell me they haven't had an effect on civilisation?
I also feel compelled to point out that Microsoft has been one of the key factors in making "IT" so important in the first place.
MS has been terrible for IT. They have supported the locking down of algorithms and business methods via patents, which has had a chilling effect on innovation and the freewheeling, anything goes culture of pre-MS days, all in the name of a few bucks for silver-spoon-in-his-mouth gates and his corporate cronies. You probably don't remember what that was like. All in all, you have my vote for most asinine post of 2006. Congratulations, u r teh winnar! And what flute modded this up? Methinks we have shills amongst us.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
We have legitimately licensed volume license systems that are being nagged. We have to fix them. This amounts to a DOS attack instigated by Microsoft. Imagine the hours spent cleaning up large numbers of systems. Ridiculous.
Genuine Advantage is entirely optional. I do not have it running on any of my XP boxes. It didn't even come preinstalled. The user has to explicity allow it to install (unless you set your settings to automatically download and install like an idiot...in which case you agreed to it anyway). Is it reasonable yet?
to make a tool to trash the cookies. Send back spurious, useless, marketer-crashing rubbish that calls their ENTIRE database into question. FUCKEM. With the exception of the copyright works of others, the data on MY computer is MINE. EVEN the fucking so-called copyright-protected cookies. If they generate cookie data with MY surfing habits, and I'm not getting PAID by them to use my info, then I will continue to trash, delete, or block cookies and their entire fucking domains.
I REGULARLY look at who is behind ANY new IP address, and I DO block entire domains. I don't know how many INDIVIDUALS have over 200 sites on their blacklist, but I do. When doubledick (among others), for instance, gets cute and scarfs up chunks if in-between addresses in random domains, I block the sub-domain if it's interfering TOO much with my surfing. But, in battle against some of these fucks, I DO tolerate 10-60 second page loads. I don't block EVERY company out there, just the big, fat-footed ones whom I suspect of mass-selling surfing information.
Thank YOU LINUX/OS devs and W3C: You helped me not have to surf with with ms crap at home.
BTW, IS THERE a cookie-corruption tool that will decrypt them so I can see what it is trying to do? Is there a way to defeat any checksums so that I can insert crap or taint the call-back numbers in the cookies? This would be so I can misdirect them and be part of a cookie-trashing movement. I'm not looking to gain unauthorized ACCESS, I want to DEAUTHORIZED and DESTROY most of the cookies. Not the ones to my e-mail providers, just the ones to sites I don't have any relationships with. I'm SICK of those who say cookies are harmless. Next, we need to root out those 1x1 pixels and taint them, too. Then the crawlers stuff, and whatever else that comes along.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Hah-hah!
Yet another reason I'm glad to be Microsoft-free for 3 years running.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Score one for objective reality!
So long as content providers continue turning reality on its head with counterintuitive licensing BS, they will continue to encourage disrespect for their "rights".
I purchase a copy of GTA Vice City, a game based on a series of highly immoral and illegal activities. On the face of it hte EULA very strongly suggests that i don't own the CD, the included promotional material or instructions, or even the packaging. If i violate this EULA i am a criminal. IANAL, so it looks to me like i broke the law already when i tore open "their" shrink-wrap. It hurts in my irony bone, but worse than that, hypocrisy breeds disrespect. As does silliness.
What they're trying to do is to brainwash their values into the next generation, and it won't work. Kids can smell hypocrisy from miles away, and they will rebel against it. Meanwhile try telling my Dad that he doesn't "own" every single goddam thing he bought with his money, or for that matter try pulling it off on me... it doesn't work for /anyone/ because it's counterintuitve.
Digitalized content and content distribution has made for a whole new reality, one which is difficult for the content providers to address. Sorry about that. But inventing a whole different reality with no objective basis isn't gonna work either. For something to be "reality", a majority of people have to agree it is so. That won't happen if it doesn't agree with their common sense.
B) We are supposed to trust MS that this thing is only asking MS if it needs to be shut off? What the hell kind of reason is that to phone home? Don't forget however, there may be some 'innocent' buffer overflows in there that could facilitate a lot more than simple on/off functionality on Microsoft's part.
I have to confess to writing this from a warezed copy of XP Pro (although I did actually buy a licence for it with the PC when it was new and flattened it after seeing all the crap that came pre-loaded onto it).
I instantly spotted the WGA tool and declined the installation - and guess what. I now have a computer that runs faster then those with legal copies as there is one less program running all the time. And my internet connection is faster too without all the daily checks going back and forward to Redmond. Cool.
So it's Windows Genuine Disadvantage then...
There's a real difference in their approach to their customers.
licet differant, aequabitur
s/who/whom/
S'okay ... I ruined it for you first. Yes, I've been reading Laumer for a long, long time. World Shuffler, Plague of Demons, Earthblood (I read that book credited as by "Rosel George Brown" but I read later he co-wrote it with Laumer), Time Bender, Galactic Odyssey, Knight of Delusions ... and of course all the Bolo stories. I especially liked the one where a massive Bolo that had supposedly been decommissioned and buried comes back to life decades after the war was over and decides to pick up the battle where it left off. "... and from the radio came the strange voice that was the Bolo's, 'Primary power cells drained, secondary cells drained, now on Final Emergency Power.'" He wrote some good sci-fi, he really did. I read all the Retief books I could get my hands on, five-eyed little sticky-fingers and all. Oh, and wipe that 34-C: Expression of Smug Self-Satisfaction off your face, or I'll just keep my case of aged Coke, thank you very much.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Aren't you required to use it to get updates? Is it installed on new PCs?
Everyone even vaguely connected with an industry that generates "intellectual property" lobbied very hard for the DMCA. And, I repeat, there's a lot more of them you need to worry about before getting around to Microsoft.
The RIAA and friends, and companies producing media like newspapers and TV shows, are the ones you really need to worry about leveraging copyright to restrict the "flow of information", not Microsoft.
If you think the only thing at stake here is copyright violation then you are still sleeping.
I think the only "freedom" 99% of people worried about not being able to download and install the next version of Windows from TPB is their freedom to get the latest and greatest for free.
Clearly we have different viewpoints about the importance of IT in the modern world.
Indeed. You seem to think not having it would put us in the stone age. I think it would put us in the seventies.
Nonsense. More great actual and potential technologies have died because of Ms then for any other reason.
This such ridiculous hyperbole I'm beginning to think you're just trolling.
Ms kills innovation.
Prove it.
I disagree. Take out Ms and the whole thing comes crumbling down.
If it weren't Microsoft, it would be someone else. Be thankful it wasn't Apple that ended up at the top of the computing world heap.
Ms is the richest and most powerful company in IT and one of the most powerful companies in the world. Other then a few oil companies and walmart (all various degrees of evil) it's Ms.
Personally, I'm far, far more worried about military industries, drug companies, media companies (both the RIAA kind and Fox News kind) and food/farming research companies (to name a few) than I am about Microsoft. Because a) they've got more political clout than Microsoft could ever *dream* of and b) their psychopathic behaviour has a vastly greater impact on my life - and others' lives - than Microsoft ever could.
I really think you need to get some perspective, here. Microsoft have such a miniscule influence on the things that are really important in your life that it's ridiculous to say they're even playing the same game as big pharma, big media, big oil and their ilk. Hell, *Nike* rate higher on the "evil" scale than Microsoft does.
You may be stunned to know people were making international telephone calls, bouncing stuff off satellites and flying around in jet planes back in the '60s. Back then it was still mostly called Engineering.
So have effective ICBMs. You want to tell me they haven't had an effect on civilisation?
At no stage did I even *suggest* "IT" hadn't had an (incredible) effect on civilisation. I was questioning the original poster's implication that modern civilisation would fall apart without it. Since, being extremely pessimistic, a world without "IT" would be roughly like the 1950s (or, say, a better life than half the world's population has right now), I think his claim was just a *teensy* bit exaggerated.
I'll also point that it's only been the last decade or so, when home computers have become common, the internet has become easily accessible and business methods have actually begun to rely on the presence of computing equipment "everywhere", that "IT" has become an integral part of daily life for a significant portion of the developed world.
Y'all seem to be forgetting that even in the '80s, computers were uncommon.
MS has been terrible for IT.
Uh, hello ? DOS ? The IBM PC ? Commoditisation of the personal computer ? Ubiquitous interface ?
You might not *like* that Microsoft was the company that did it - although _someone_ had to - but they are unquestionably one of the primary reasons you can go out and buy a US$300 PC and then run hundreds of thousands of programs on it and why the average person can sit down in front of the average computer and be able to use it.
They have supported the locking down of algorithms and business methods via patents, [...]
So has everyone else. Hell, there are companies out there patenting *gene sequences*.
Not to mention, Microsoft have hardly been aggressive in attempts to enforce patents they hold. Far from it, in fact.
[...] which has had a chilling effect on innovation and the freewheeling, anything goes culture of pre-MS days, [...]
Right. Because there's been no "innovation and freewheeling" since the late '70s. Anyone and everyone's ability to go out, but a computer and run whatever-the-hell-they-want on it has just been a figment of my imagination. The Amiga, Apple, the Mac, Atari, Nintendo, Sega, Acorn, Linux, FreeBSD, GNOME, KDE - none of it really happened, right ? Those ten or so old computers I've got at home - none of which have a single piece of Microsoft software on them - aren't actually there ?
You probably don't remember what that was like.
Clearly, I do and you don't. In particular, you might want to cast your mind back and remember that Microsoft was the *underdog* until the early '90s. IBM was the big, mean, nasty corporation everyone hated. (My, my, has the world changed...)
All in all, you have my vote for most asinine post of 2006. Congratulations, u r teh winnar!
Hey, at least I realise food, clothing, shelter, transport, safety and access to unbiased information are more important to modern civilisation than being able to play Halo 3 and SMS my friends 100 times a day.
And what flute modded this up? Methinks we have shills amongst us.
Ah, yes, the standard Slashdot ad-hominem. "Clearly, if someone doesn't agree with us that Microsoft is the greatest evil the world has ever known (and Linux r00lz btw), they *must* be getting paid to say that".
Get some fucking perspective. About the *worst* thing Microsoft has done is put another company out of business, and you're trying to say they're up there with corporations selling engines of death and destruction, getting wars started for the sake of profit, stopping farmers growing food, restricting the availability of life-saving drugs and using slave labour ?
"Everyone even vaguely connected with an industry that generates "intellectual property" lobbied very hard for the DMCA. "
Mostly it was the RIAA, MPAA and MS.
"I think the only "freedom" 99% of people worried about not being able to download and install the next version of Windows from TPB is their freedom to get the latest and greatest for free."
Once again you seem to think it's not a major problem and only see the fight in the narrowest terms possible. We clearly disagree.
"Indeed. You seem to think not having it would put us in the stone age. I think it would put us in the seventies."
You talk as if putting us in the seventies would not be a major blow to the world.
"If it weren't Microsoft, it would be someone else. Be thankful it wasn't Apple that ended up at the top of the computing world heap."
I don't buy this argument. I hear it all the time from the shillboys. I don't believe that every company in the world or every company in IT is as evil as Ms. I just don't buy it.
"I really think you need to get some perspective, here. Microsoft have such a miniscule influence on the things that are really important in your life that it's ridiculous to say they're even playing the same game as big pharma, big media, big oil and their ilk. Hell, *Nike* rate higher on the "evil" scale than Microsoft does."
Once again we clearly disagree. I think the ability to talk, communicate, read, pass information to your progeny is more important then most other things in the world. Ms controls all of that right now.
evil is as evil does
...and why I hate the dozer on my desk at work.
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
My Windows machine just keeps complaining over and over in a little popup that it's not connected to anything.
Retired from software... maybe. Sort of.
If you're looking for a language where the written word has a strong correlation with the phonetic pronunciation, English is the wrong place to start. If you were right, and common usage dicated proper spelling, I kood b riting like this and it wood b akseptibul. I don't know who modded you Informative, because I consider myself a pro editor, and I've never heard of dropping the "d" in "supposed." Besides, the way people talk it should be one word, "spozeda."
Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
Yes, that's because I see the RIAA and co. trying to shape the world so a person's credit card is automatically debited every time they get a song stuck in their head, and the only way to acquire entertainment is from an RIAA-approved outlet. I see Microsoft, on the other hand, trying to stop people pirating Windows and hacking Xboxes.
I certainly know which one I consider the larger threat.
You talk as if putting us in the seventies would not be a major blow to the world.
No, I talk as if putting us in the seventies wouldn't be the "end of civilisation". I personally would probably be in a different job, get a lot more fresh air and watch a lot less porn, but apart from that my life would not be significantly different.
I don't buy this argument. I hear it all the time from the shillboys. I don't believe that every company in the world or every company in IT is as evil as Ms. I just don't buy it.
And I don't buy the "argument" anti-Microsoft zealots like yourself spout all over Slashdot about Microsoft being the Great Satan. Largely because of a) Microsoft's lack of any activity that could reasonably be called "evil" and b) the propensity of pretty much every other sizable corporation to act in the same fashion.
Maybe we just have different standards of "evil". I'm afraid mine rates slavery, destruction of the environment and propogation of death and suffering far, far higher than it does selling a piece of software to willing buyers that checks back every day to see if it's been pirated.
Once again we clearly disagree. I think the ability to talk, communicate, read, pass information to your progeny is more important then most other things in the world. Ms controls all of that right now.
Utterly ridiculous. Microsoft control *none* of those things, and companies like the RIAA or News Ltd. (not to mention your Government) will be exerting control over them long before Microsoft ever does.
There is no force whatsoever that currently compels me to use Microsoft software. Even when *using* Microsoft software, there is no force compelling me to use their propretarry formats. *Let alone* actively stopping me from using other file formats, software or hardware.
I own a valid copy of windows. I don't have a issue of priacy with it. But the fact that Microsoft has my computer not just checking if updates for Windows is available but reporting back to microsoft about my computer just makes me feel that I am being f*cked up my arse by Microsoft. Those blasted arsef*ckers. Windows sucks really. I still cant get it to run without crashing on my other PC (AMD Opteron 170). But SUSE runs beautifully on it. The day Photoshop and Rhino3D is available natively on Linux, I will throw Windowz in the garbage can where it deserves. I was even thinking of evaluating Vista when it arrives, not anymore.... this is the last straw for me... My main system runs windows. I leave it like that for now till I can get all the tools I want for Linux then convert this from Mudderf*ckersoft to something I can trust more.
- Dragonlord Warlock (aka Dion) "So many computers.... so little time...."
"Maybe we just have different standards of "evil". I'm afraid mine rates slavery, destruction of the environment and propogation of death and suffering far, far higher than it does selling a piece of software to willing buyers that checks back every day to see if it's been pirated."
I agree that we have different standards. I see lots of activities other then slavery and destruction of the environment as evil.
"There is no force whatsoever that currently compels me to use Microsoft software. Even when *using* Microsoft software, there is no force compelling me to use their propretarry formats. *Let alone* actively stopping me from using other file formats, software or hardware."
Ms is actively lobbying the govt to prevent you from exercizing those choices.
evil is as evil does
Computer blows up, you want it back up now, not X weeks away of fighting with dell to get them to even send the CD and shipping time. I agree with the restore disk, but when you are military and move often shit gets lost alot unfortunately. Installed pro, has pro disc/key. The problem is its a desktop and has no stupid sticker on it, the key is printed on one of those orange stickers they stick to the white paper CD holders.
My point is that in their crusade against piracy, they have made many of their customers lives much more difficult, and really haven't hindered the pirates in any significant fashion. Do you think the pirates are having problems fighting with MS trying to get support, get updates they are entitled to, etc...hell no. I personally won't touch the OS anymore since that whole "activate windows" crap, where after you install it and feed it a product key (x hours later), you have to get online or call and give them another number (that represents your hardware...like they need to know that...) and have to activate windows...then if you change hardware...you get to reactivate!
The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
" To be waiting on you to return the library book, Soft One! "
:b
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
Thanks, I knew I'd seen it somewhere, just couldn't remember where. It's been...a while...since I read that (Ronald Regan was still alive, and still an actor--though he may have been playing the part of "Governor" by then).
Now at least I know which box to look in, when I get back to the states.
--MarkusQ
This is just too easy. Tell me, did you buy the account, or have you been shilling since back then? Shilling is an interesting term, its like FUD; they both have one thing in common, they were bought into common usage by microsoft (or as I like to refer to them, a Certain Unnamed Monolithic Software Corporation, or CUMSoCk).
You may be stunned to know people were making international telephone calls, bouncing stuff off satellites and flying around in jet planes back in the '60s. Back then it was still mostly called Engineering.
And you remember all those whirry round tapes in NASA flight control? Computers.
At no stage did I even *suggest* "IT" hadn't had an (incredible) effect on civilisation.
Yeah you did. And you're doing it again in theis post. You aren't the author of the bible, by any chance, are you?
I was questioning the original poster's implication that modern civilisation would fall apart without it. Since, being extremely pessimistic, a world without "IT" would be roughly like the 1950s (or, say, a better life than half the world's population has right now), I think his claim was just a *teensy* bit exaggerated.
What the fuck. You think you can just pull out computers and everything will run as per the 1950s? Theres not much I can say in the face of such monumental ignorance. If you pull out the computers today, we all die in about four weeks, without an economy, from starvation.
Uh, hello ? DOS ? The IBM PC ? Commoditisation of the personal computer ? Ubiquitous interface ?
None of which were produced by microsoft, all of which were either stolen under looser IP laws (that durn freewheeling again) or "borrowed", which amounts to the same thing, and then locked down by silver-spoon-billy.
but they are unquestionably one of the primary reasons you can go out and buy a US$300 PC and then run hundreds of thousands of programs on it and why the average person can sit down in front of the average computer and be able to use it.
Try again, young man. The reason you can do all of the above are Dell and their rather nifty production and supply lines. That gilly bates managed to secure a good contract with IBM and then Dell says nothing about the quality of his products. I rather wish I had his family connections, however.
So has everyone else.
Aaaaand we have more burbling of the brown stuff. What about that whole open source movement there. Seeing a lot of patents in that direction? No? Thats why they'll win. When CUMSoCk is regulated to the history books just like the robber barons of old, OSS will be everywhere.
Those ten or so old computers I've got at home - none of which have a single piece of Microsoft software on them
Ah come on, this is easy enough, you don't need to make my points for me. I don't feel its sporting.
Microsoft was the *underdog* until the early '90s.
And I didn't like them back then either. But then again I never could abide useless people, and of all the parasites this world has produced, hereditary-william is the worst. So far.
Get some fucking perspective. About the *worst* thing Microsoft has done is put another company out of business, and you're trying to say they're up there with corporations selling engines of death and destruction, getting wars started for the sake of profit, stopping farmers growing food, restricting the availability of life-saving drugs and using slave labour ?
Oh fuck off. If you value the freedom of your brain, you'll step up and bring that hegemonous pile of shit to bay, like Europe is doing right now, as the US lawmakers failed to do, since the cheques didn't bounce. How are the cheques these days anyway?
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
To the tune of "It's me again Margret" by Ray Stevens (sorry Ray :))
.... hello PC who is this? Linux? Linux who? huh?
Well there is a feller named Billy G Gates
And there is one thing thats he especially hates
That one of his customers might have a unlicensed cp
So each day he would spy on his customers over tcp/ip
It's me again PC, hello is this a Windoze PC, hehehehe
You don't know me PC, but I know you, hehehehe
Well this upset the customers, and it made them all blue
So they got together, hired a lawyer and asked what can we do
Well the lawyer setup logging warez on each and every PC
And the next few weeks ran trace routes right back to ole Billy G
It's me again PC, hello is this a Windoze PC, hehehehe
I know its you PC, hey do you still have your naked pic's that I can see, hehehehe
Mean while the lawyers caught ole Ma Bell up in the same type of jokes
Selling customers personal info to some nutty "government" folks
It was not much later that the government once again changed hands
And privacy laws started being applied again all across the customers lands
It's me again PC, hello is this a Windoze PC, hehehehe
I know its you PC, I bet you can't guess what I'm doin', hehehehe
Well the customers sued them and dragged their companies to court
And I still can't believe it but the customers won the cases in tort
The companies both issued the standard press statement's that read
The rotten ole employees that did this, to the sharks have been fed
It's me again PC, they got me PC, you ain't gonna miss me PC
I know that, but I'll miss you
Well when I get my people back in power I'm gonna come over there
With a wireless router, some more spyware, and some tacky new laws
We'll have a big ole tme PC, hehehe, whowhowhoooo
Matthew
Your arguments would be more convincing if some of these things Microsoft does that are supposedly "evil" were elaborated upon.
Ms is actively lobbying the govt to prevent you from exercizing those choices.
Microsoft are lobbying the Government to prevent the sale or contruction of any computers that don't run Microsoft software ? Now *that* would be something worth reading about.
"Your arguments would be more convincing if some of these things Microsoft does that are supposedly "evil" were elaborated upon."
I already said them. Ms is actively trying to destroy innovation in the IT industry. It's a plauge on the industry as a whole. SInce the entire world communicates and does business via the IT industry MS is harmful to the world. Look at how hard they tried and succeeded in killing SPF for example. There was no need to do that. They just wanted their own patent encumbered standard so they killed an open standard. That's just one example. There are a million more. If you are not aware of them then you are wilfully ignorant.
In addition to their activities which harm the industry they have actively lied, cheated and stole from their partners. All of them!. That's sleazy, unethical and yes evil. It's evil to say you are entering into a partnership and then steal technology and customers from the partner.
"Microsoft are lobbying the Government to prevent the sale or contruction of any computers that don't run Microsoft software ? "
Yes but not specific. They are lobbying the govt to mandate DRMed bioses which won't run trusted code.
"Now *that* would be something worth reading about."
Google is your friend.
evil is as evil does
That's rather vague and opionated. I was hoping for something a little more ... specific and objective.
I might as well say OSS is actively trying to destroy the software industry. It's about as valid.
It's a plauge on the industry as a whole. SInce the entire world communicates and does business via the IT industry MS is harmful to the world.
Look, if you want to come across as anything more than yet another Slashdot Anti-Microsoft Zealot, you'll need to try an sound a little less like Chicken Little.
Look at how hard they tried and succeeded in killing SPF for example. There was no need to do that. They just wanted their own patent encumbered standard so they killed an open standard.
I can't profess to keeping up with every little thing that Microsoft does, but a quick google returned this suggesting it went to the IETF to be ratified.
That's just one example. There are a million more. If you are not aware of them then you are wilfully ignorant.
No, I just don't have an irrational hatred of anything Microsoft does and a reasonable grasp on how the business world operates.
In addition to their activities which harm the industry they have actively lied, cheated and stole from their partners. All of them!. That's sleazy, unethical and yes evil. It's evil to say you are entering into a partnership and then steal technology and customers from the partner.
I think you will have a great deal of difficulty finding anything Microsoft have done that every other sizable company (software industry or otherwise) hasn't also done.
Yes but not specific. They are lobbying the govt to mandate DRMed bioses which won't run trusted code.
I presume you mean "Trusted Computing Platform". Seems to me we're coming back to that thing about not being able to pirate the latest and greatest software and media. TCP has perfectly valid technical arguments in its favour, even if you don't like it. It's highly unlikely to ever be dictating you can only use Microsoft software.
Once again, your real enemy here is not Microsoft, it is the "content" companies. If you want to stop things like DRM, you need to lobby for copyright reform and the destruction of lecherous companies like the RIAA and friends, not Microsoft. If you want to stop ridiculous things like patentable business methods, then you need to lobby for patent reform. If it's not Microsoft, it'll be (already is) Apple, or someone else.
"I might as well say OSS is actively trying to destroy the software industry. It's about as valid. "
I think this statement says more about you then anything I could say.
"Look, if you want to come across as anything more than yet another Slashdot Anti-Microsoft Zealot, you'll need to try an sound a little less like Chicken Little."
And if you want to come across as anything but an astro turfer or a shill you need to be a little more rational.
"I can't profess to keeping up with every little thing that Microsoft does, but a quick google returned this suggesting it went to the IETF to be ratified."
Means nothing. If MS refuses to implement it then it's dead. They have refused to implement it. Yet one more standard MS refuses to implement.
"No, I just don't have an irrational hatred of anything Microsoft does and a reasonable grasp on how the business world operates."
Once again I don't buy the argument that every company is evil. Clearly there are some companies that are more ethical then others. MS is amongst the worst.
"I think you will have a great deal of difficulty finding anything Microsoft have done that every other sizable company (software industry or otherwise) hasn't also done. "
Nonsense. Maytag, rockport, snapper, and thousands of other companies seem to be able to function without resorting to lying, cheating or stealing.
"Once again, your real enemy here is not Microsoft, it is the "content" companies."
Closely allied with MS.
evil is as evil does
This particular shrink-wrapped license case has to do with Mr. X buying a piece of software that the license said was for non-commercial use only (because commercial use had a higher price), and he proceeded to use it for a business he started up.
In this case, the terms of usage were very reasonable and I'm not surprised the court overturned the original decision that ruled it was unenforcable. The reasons it was deemed enforcable in this case is that they guy in question knew exactly the terms he was agreeing to but chose to ignore them and violate the terms anyway. He was not forced to use the software in volation of the terms. If he disagreed and he did not suffer any loss of functionality or if he disagreed simply because he didn't like the terms, he could have chosen to use another package.
The case says he could have returned the software if he disagreed to the terms, but I'm not sure if that was actually possible or not - i.e. if he bought it direct from the software builder or from a retail outlet. If retail he might have had a stronger case. But in any event, this wasn't a case of a person being forced to accept an agreement that changed the terms during an update, and the language of the agreement was not such that it was considered unconscionable.
I think whether a shrink-wrapped license is enforcable or not depends heavily on two things:
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
443 and 80.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
What ? That I can come up with a suitably silly example to get a point across ?
And if you want to come across as anything but an astro turfer or a shill you need to be a little more rational.
Which of my arguments are irrational ? And why ? Just repeating it doesn't make it so.
Means nothing. If MS refuses to implement it then it's dead. They have refused to implement it. Yet one more standard MS refuses to implement.
A cursory Google search would suggest they *are* implementing it.
Once again I don't buy the argument that every company is evil.
Neither do I. Of course, I don't buy the argument that common business practices are "evil", either.
Clearly there are some companies that are more ethical then others. MS is amongst the worst.
IMHO, your classification of Microsoft as "amongst the worst" is an insult to the victims of reuly vile corporate behaviour. How can you place Microsoft on the same level as IBM's collusion with the Nazis, Nestle's marketing of breastmilk substitutes in third world countries, or deceptive (and lethal) practices of the tobacco industry ?
As I said, about the *nastiest* thing you could ever accuse Microsoft of doing is putting another company out of business - and most of them are out of business because they deserved it-. How can you possibly say that is even in the same ballpark - hell, even playing the same *game* - as some of the "worst" corporate behaviour out there ?
Nonsense. Maytag, rockport, snapper, and thousands of other companies seem to be able to function without resorting to lying, cheating or stealing.
Are you sure ? Have you subjected them to the same level of crutiny you do Microsoft ?
Closely allied with MS.
I can assure you, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the content industry is - and has been - lobbying for longer, stricter copyrights far more zealously than Microsoft, and with far more nefarious plans. There are also numerous companies that have abused the patent system much more than Microsoft ever have.
The big problem with your assertion that Microsoft is "amongst the worst" in terms of corporate behaviour, is that it doesn't stand up to any sort of objective analysis - *especially* once you move outside the realm of the computer industry. So far the worst things you been able to come up with are vague accusations of theft general belligerence. I could come up with a ten examples of more "evil" corporate behaviour than that without even trying. Someone of a suitably socialist/anti-corporate mindset could probably come up with dozens, if not hundreds.