Slashdot Mirror
Police Launch Drones Over LA
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo! News is reporting that law enforcement officials have launched a new form of drone aircraft to patrol the skies above Los Angeles. From the article: 'Police say the drone, called the SkySeer, will be able to accomplish tasks too dangerous for officers and free up helicopters for other missions. "This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone," said Commander Sid Heal, head of the Technology Exploration Project of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department. "The ideal outcome for us is when this technology becomes instrumental in saving lives."'"
Just like HL2 ... gimme a gravity gun and I'll get rid of the lil' suckers
This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone
Or it could be used to follow White Broncos
Well, naturally it'll be a great outcome when it's used to save lives. What kind of outcome will it be when it's used to keep tabs on citizens' movements?
But police say that such privacy concerns are unwarranted because surveillance is already ubiquitous. "You shouldn't be worried about being spied on by your government," said Heal. "These days you can't go anywhere without a camera watching you whether you're in a grocery store or walking down the street."
You're already screwed, but you don't have anything to worry about unless you have something to hide. You don't have something to hide do you citizen?
Dropping the paranoia. I've been into a surveilance center in a major city and, as you would expect, half the time the people working there are too busy checking out the hot women walking about to notice any crimes...
People that believe in their opinions don't post AC.
Why not? It would make "World's Wildest Police Chases" that much more entertaining.
Here is a link to the SkySeer product on the manufacturer's web page that includes a photo of the device (looks like a model airplane): http://www.octatron.com/Products/SKS.html
"The ideal outcome for us is when this technology becomes instrumental in saving lives."
But we'll settle for tracking your every move.
"bringing technology most commonly associated with combat zones to urban policing." now some might argue that LA is not that far away from being a combat zone.
30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
Score:5, Troll
Once they fly over a backyard with some woman topless sunbathing out by the pool they'll forget all about saving lives.
LA's a big city. There are some good things about this.
* It frees up man power
* It saves money on paying pilots and buying more aircraft
* They can cover more are quickly plus relay constant feed back and be remotely controlled to travel certain ares faster.
There are some bad things.
* It could, theoretically, be a privacy issue as they take pictures of people's yards (I'm sure pictures will be wide lens)
* Let's say they can hover and ease drop on a building
* I'm sure taxes will come into play (howerver this may be on neutral ground if it really beneifts the residents).
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
"... but will in fact be used to further re-enforce the creeping feeling that LA, and indeed America at large, is turning onto a police state where the citizens are under constant surveillance."
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
At least someone is asking the right questions.
I don't have a problem with private businesses using cameras to monitor their property as long as the cameras are not government sanctioned stations to monitor the public. I would hope that tapes from those business cameras would at least take a subpoena to be viewed. Where I do have a problem is when an officer seems to justify unwarranted surveillance devoid of probable cause using unmanned drones patrolling my backyard. What happened to my Constitutional rights regarding search and seizure?
And do you know how they sell this to the public?
It's for the children stupid!!! How long until this is used to collect even more information on the citizen of our US? Land of the free and home of the brave indeed...
World's Shortest Police Chases?
"This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone" COULD BE used. Obviously it WON'T be limited to those situations. How will it help find missing children? Since they are missing, you don't know where to look, and you cannot possibly look everywhere in Los Angeles. If they are kidnapped, then how will the drone find them in a car or a house? Searching for lost hikers is a legitimate use, but how often will it be used for that? I don't see an epidemic of lost hikers justifying purchasing this equipment. As for use in a fire zone, why would the POLICE purchase a drone for that? Wouldn't the FIRE DEPARTMENT need it? These are NOT the reasons for using these drones. These drones will be used to monitor the streets of Los Angeles to gather track citizens and citizen activities at the expense of intruding on people's privacy (not legally defined privacy, but real-life privacy). These will be deployed during lawful public protests, for example, under the excuse of public safety. Since the Department of Homeland Security already has jurisdiction over pretty much everything, they can use it to build profiles of people at a lawful protest, adding to the data the DHS collects against citizens, allowing it to add people to no-fly and other blacklists. This is really just domestic spying, not to save the children, hikers or survey a fire. ("Mr. Fire, can we ask you a few questions?").
Well, get yourself a GPS Jammer.
You can bweak the Man's widdow pwane!!!
"A microprocessor... is a terrible thing to waste." --
GeneralEmergency
Per AOPA, LA Sheriff's department agrees the tiny RC-sized planes are subject to existing FAA rules, including uncontrolled airspace, which would make it pretty hard to actually fly in LA. It makes a nice story for some ambitious tech captain but I doubt there will be any impact on crime or privacy (modulo slippery-slope). See the AOPA site: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060609 uav.html>
they tried it in bulgaria hehehe
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oe1phdRUhDE
"The ideal outcome for us is when this technology becomes instrumental in saving lives."
Ideally that is. At least until it crashes and kills someone.
BBC has pictures http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5051142.stm
what are the price on these little babies? will they have to teach the police to handle them or will they need to bring in a dedicated tech to watch them? it seems like a lot of money to spend n somthing that has a high chance of failing simply from outside enviromental hazards.
Free up the helicopters for much more important tasks.
Can these things see-and-avoid other air traffic, or does this come with a permanent TFR?
Xeni Jardin (of BoingBoing and NPR fame) reported on this a few months ago. The pictures of the plane are good, but the control equipment is even more so.
T1000?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Now we need the Death Star, a glass supermall, and Lucius Warbaby.
Because the only one who can save us from the drones is Max, the bitchin' X5-452
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
These drones will be used to monitor the streets of Los Angeles to gather track citizens and citizen activities at the expense of intruding on people's privacy (not legally defined privacy, but real-life privacy).
Exactly right, this is what the movie Blue Thunder was all about. Except instead of stealth helicopters we're now seeing unmanned drones deployed over population centers. How long until these drones become more "useful" by being armed with crowd-control features such as gas or even lethal force?
The "H" in the popular profanity "Jesus H. Christ" does not stand for "Harold." It stands for "Horatio." For pointing this out, I am an ass, but you are the idiot.
"I have a bad feeling about this..."
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
For those of you who play G.R.A.W. (Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter), you know how to take care of that pesky drone problem...just grab your assault rifle, set it on full-auto, and blast away until the drone is a million tiny pieces...then wait two minutes for the next one to appear behind the blue spawn (I'm assuming that's the team the cops would be).
Hopefully nobody will take this too literally and start base-raping the boys in blue, though. Or better yet, grab your ZEUS anti-tank missile, and take that thing out the overkill way. Mmm!
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Never forget: 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
Kiss your remaining freedoms goodbye.
Meh.
It's not like it's a big secret. It costs too much to operate choppers 24/7 for the surveillance desired. Drones are cheaper, they only cost once (plus nominal costs for fuel) and you can lay off those expensive pilots.
Now, drones are by definition dumb and sooner or later one will crash. That is not necessarily "protecting" the public, will probably hurt more people than it saves, but as long as you can argue that's the idea behind it, it will fly. Hell, the "war on terror" was supposed to protect US people, and more people died during that war than in terrorist acts before 9/11. But hey, it was the idea behind it.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
when they fire plasma beams at small children.
:)
cause ya know those small children are the problem.
it's funny laugh
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
A lot of people used to whine about the traffic cameras at intersections. They would say: "Oh, it's not FAIR that these cameras can catch me breaking the law! If there aren't any cops around, I should be able to ge away with it!" But that's a terrible argument. All that has happened is that the technology has improved to allow us to better enforce laws already on the books. Just because you used to be able to get away with it, doesn't mean it wasn't breaking the law. Just because you "lucked out" and there weren't cops around, doesn't mean it wasn't wrong.
To me, having "bots" scanning public streets for criminal activities is exactly the same. Don't whine, like one commenter did, about "What if I'm doing something illegal in my back yard!!!" Just because you used to not get caught, doesn't mean it wasn't illegal! If they use it for law enforcement, it would just be using technology to better enforce laws that are already on the books. <sarcasm>How dare they!</sarcasm>
I, for one, welcome our new LAPD overlords.
This sig is neither interesting, nor humorous. Including meta-humor.
Didnt we see these in T3?
This link
That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
Not quite:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2006/060609 uav.html
The Los Angeles Sheriff's Department (LASD) was reportedly evaluating a 4-pound UAV for surveillance use over the sprawling L.A. Basin, which also happens to be some of the busiest airspace in the world. Members were rightly concerned about the risk of a midair collision with the small, radio-controlled aircraft.
AOPA staff promptly raised the issue with the FAA. Not only did that action make sure that a mini-UAV wouldn't be sharing L.A.'s airspace with GA pilots, it will also lead to a better policy controlling UAVs nationwide.
The FAA made it clear to the LASD that as a public operator, it would need a certificate of authorization (COA) and an experimental airworthiness certificate before it could fly a UAV, regardless of size, in the National Airspace System. (National airspace includes Class G, uncontrolled airspace.) Those are the same rules that apply to the larger UAVs being flown by the military and Department of Homeland Security.
Public and commercial operators aren't flying UAVs for "recreational purposes," so they are not permitted to fly remotely piloted aircraft under the provisions of the FAA's radio-controller modeler's advisory circular.
According to AOPA's FAA sources, the LASD reassured the agency that it will fully comply with all FAA regulations.
Pigs In Space!
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
>...there's many more hot women walking around than there are crimes.
You've neve been to LA.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
But the question is.. where is Jessica Alba in this whole thing? :)
Tell me what you believe...I'll tell you what you should see.
My son flys light aircraft in the LA area. He has commented Helicopters are often
difficult to see, especially when the hover stationary at the end of runways. There
have been several crashes with loss of life in LA due to light planes hitting helos.
Perhaps since UAVs fly lower than helos, they will reduce crash danger to my son.
I'm curious if UAVs are exempt from all FAA regulations or do they require any
notification tonearby towers when they are launched?
What's past is NOT ALWAYS prologue for the future!
We don't need no stinking jammers. The ghetto bird has met it's match. Blam! down it goes.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
These things are the forerunners of the HK drones. Just wait till Skynet becomes operational.
"The SkySeer will cost between 25,000 and 30,000 dollars."6 8&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=nested&cid=150234 02 :P
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1816
To the people who doubted me, I win.
Someone save me from this sanity.
By and large, the most frequent response when I get this is "Oh, no, thats not going to happen. The government is doing this for a good reason, and I trust them."
So I've given up on trying to convince any but my closest friends. I just don't care anymore. If they want to be this flippant about the fourth ammendment, I'll let them be. To either wake up one day to realize they lost all their rights (and its too late for them to do anything about it), or to stay asleep....either would be a horrible punishment. They deserve it; they've chosen it.
I'm not that worried about it. We are smart enough to be on the inside of it all. We're smart enough to be the ones at the top monitoring all the OTHER stupid citizens. When enough smart ones rise up who care enough to do something about it, I'll either welcome them in or join them to set it the way it should be. Its win/win either way.
SkySeer, will be able to accomplish tasks too dangerous for officers and free up helicopters for other missions.
Wow, the situation in LA is a lot worse then I thought since apparently they are worried about helicopters being shot out of the sky.. I wonder when it was the Crypts picked up a surface to air missile?
I for one am very glad they have decided to police us more. I'm a perfect citizen and i have nothing to hide. Please install a police man inside the house of every American that way we can end domestic violence and crime all together.
We could stop crime if we all would just surrender to the government. They will take care of all!
To the government, everyone IS a suspect.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
After reading over a lot of the slashdot replies to this article; it's interesting to note that the majority of them are posts by people with privacy concerns. I mean, a tool is just that; an instrument that serves a purpose. As has already been said before many times; Theres nothin fundamentally wrong with this technology, but instead how it's used will be the deciding factor. While I don't give much thought to the average joe's insights or opinions, I try to pay attention to underlying themes, ideas and threads of thought that run thru society as a whole. And, right now theres a storm brewing here in the USA. Im not saying most (or even the majority), but a substancial part of the populace does have a very uneasy feeling about our government and their motives. I'm trying to be an optimist, but despite that; I see such technology being abused to serve the interests of those in power without some type of VERY good oversight... Let's hope other people see this also, and do something about it before technology gets too advanced and we have no choice but to play along... Just my $.02
Sheriff Baca spends money on drones and a huge fleet of helicopters, and yet can't find the money to keep violent criminals in jail:
http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/149.page
and then when someone challenges him in the election, he gets pay-back:
http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/283.page
and now we're going to have drones flying around the city looking for... who knows?
It didn't hit a politician or a corp exec, so nobody important was hurt.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
So how long until the telescreens are installed?
matches the drones in Blade Runner.
I will create a sig when innovation restarts in the U.S.
... or so long the saying (and I paraphase): "If the LAPD has to chase you down, they're bring an ass kicking with them." - Chris Rock
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Wrong again. It stands for "Haploid."
It's a frigging model airplane! It is a neat concept from the standpoint of something that can be deployed easily when needs dictate. It has to be thrown into the air! It runs on a battery... these things aren't staying in the air for hours at a time.
While I worry about the next generation, and getting proper procedures into place now given limited ability, SkyNet it aint!
Skyseer? What kind of queer name is that? They should've just gone with the obvious choice, "Skynet".
Arnold's already in place. The future of LA is coming.
eTrade SUCKS
I can't wait for the time when one of them malfunctions and crashes into a group of school children. I mean it is LA - it WILL happen.
... "When 'pigs' fly"
"This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone"
We're watching you, but won't someone please think of the children?
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
but what happens when the 'bad guys' start building drones of their own? . Imagine drone shoot-outs over the city. .
OBSERVATION: Sensors indicate that activity in Zone LA2128 is similar to those found in Training Exercise Modern_Urban2c_Night7m.
COMMAND: Initiate Stage 1 Observation Platform. Combine Stealth and Passive Protocol, relay realtime to OPSAT
(Meanwhile, 10 minutes later...)
Stanley sets the emergency brake at the residence of the host for his Thursday night Bridgeclub. The house echoes with laughter and merriment as he pops the trunk to retrieve his contribution to the monthly potluck. The aroma of freshly baked Parmesan Crabcakes with Lemon Zest fills the air and Stanley smiles. He carries the steaming platter gently and heads towards the house.
(Approximately 3000 feet above Stanley's head...)
RECON UPDATE: HEATSOURCE LOCATED. TRACKING MOVEMENT.
COMMAND: ORBIT +24H. INITIATE LIVELINK WITH INS_DATA, CUSTOMS_DATA, HOMELAND_DATA. ARCHIVE.
Did anyone even RTFA? The drone reached an altitude of 300ft and promptly took a nose dive into a thankfully vacant lot. Now suppose i'm a lost hiker or other nefarious sort on the lamb. Near silent and undetectable how pretty will that be when this android flap box jams me right in the face after losing comms. Give me a loud noisy helicopter any day at least i'll hear my doom approaching.
The Constabulary air ship or anti-gravity craft cruised at minimum speed, the low hum of the engines brining confort and feer to the subjects of the Shire of Los Anglies.
Travel notes 2006, a visit to Her Magisty Queen Elizabeth England's Eastern Pacific Colonies.
from one l.a. local to another. :)
.-.
If they are using drones, one has to wonder when the smart bombs are going to start dropping.
Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
"This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone," said Commander Sid Heal, head of the Technology Exploration Project of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department.
Or to make flights 100 feet over highways with a laser gun and a telescopic camera. Screw red light cameras - just send an automated plane out over an area with artificially low speed limits and watch the fines come in as the automatically generated and mailed tickets go out by the thousands.
The problem with a lot of traffic law enforcement is that it doesn't have anything to do with enforcing saftey, but with generating revenue for the city/county. Red light cameras usually aren't placed at the intersections with the highest rate of accidents, but rather at ones with high amounts of traffic and low yellow light times.
Not to mention searching private property, since SCOTUS rubber stamped warrantless air searches in 1989. The Bush Administration (deservedly) gets a lot of flack for erroding privacy rights, but the Supreme Court has been eroding the 4th and 5th amendents long before Bush held any office.
...a cross between Blue Thunder (the movie, where Roy Scheider and Daniel Stern use their police chopper to peep on a nude female practicing yoga) and The Simpsons: Hit And Run (all those flying robotic wasp cameras spying on Springfield).
...Sir."
...pizziola concern?"
Homer: "Mr. Burns, I know you're guilty. Je'accuse!!
Burns: "Fine, I admit it: I had Amelia Earhardt's plane shot down. That hussy was getting too big for her jumpers."
Homer: "No! You've been spying on Springfield with your black vans and surveillance cameras."
Burns: "Black vans? Hmph, aren't they involved in some
Homer: "WHA--?! They were only pizza vans?? Oh, I'm a class five idiot!"
"All hands, BRACE FOR IMPACT!"
I think you meant 'faze'. Either that, or you have one hell of a taser.
I found this picture of the prototype: http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:7SY6ib0nUY04 BM:battleteam.net/tech/fis/docs/images/halflife2_s canner2.png
... Does the NSA have a live feed into the drone's microphone?
Dustin - A different story...
Surely the contractor was incompetent enough to use standard frequencies and plain-text protocols easily reverse engineered by the Slashdot crew.
We should start a contest to see how many of these things one person can collect by hijacking the command/control signals.
One of these things will turn up [lost|missing|stolen] one day. The next day, the concept discussed in Snow Crash will start to become a reality.
Please, please, please LAPD launch a few more planes, the contention for really-real LA porn is just too much for all the planes you lost already
"This technology could be used to find missing children, search for lost hikers, or survey a fire zone,"
Does anyone believe that bullshit? Oh, right - LA - some people there will believe anything... it's their job.
--
make install -not war
Police helicopter need a pilote, need fuel, is expensive. Drone can be autopiloted, can save everything on band (no need of personal), and only need a fuel station somewhere available. Naturally we are not yeet that far (I do not think drone can be automatised that far yet, but I bet it could be done).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Ok, they're not little black helicopters and they aren't automated drones. The summary drew this picture in my mind of the camera drones from Half Life 2.
These are short range (Product page, no price listed. Interesting technical specs though.
Not a good solution for autonomous spying. It might be good for search and rescue jobs.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
Sorry, a less than symbol was read as an open tag.
Ok, they're not little black helicopters and they aren't automated drones. The summary drew this picture in my mind of the camera drones from Half Life 2.
These are short range (less than 2 mi. range), GPS navigated reconnaissance toy planes. With a 6 ft. wingspan, they should be fairly easy to spot. They can't even fly in the air for an hour without a battery change. The range can be extended with 802.11b access points (only 128-bit WEP is supported). So you should be able to fire up Kismet / Netstumbler and do a little spying of your own if they are in your area. It will be interesting to see if anyone reverse engineers the command & control if these are adopted by police departments in other urban areas.
Product page, no price listed. Interesting technical specs though.
Not a good solution for autonomous spying. It might be good for search and rescue jobs.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
that can drop a glove onto private property?
New capabilities create new vulnerabilities all the time, I don't see anyone talking about what new vulnerabilities these drones open up and how they are going about protecting against them.
The first thing I think of when I hear about remotely controlled vehicles is, "how easily can the control part of 'remote control' be disrupted?" If the idea is that they can use these things against criminals - what is to stop a criminal from buying a pre-made unit from some grey-market in the far-east, or modifying an "almost there" off the shelf transmitter that is capable of disrupting the two way communication required to operate these drones?
Depending on the specifics, one might even be able to impersonate the unit and send your own video feed to the ground-station. At the very least, I would expect that one could simply dump enough noise into the relevant frequencies to severe the link between ground-station and drone - after all the drone is tiny, it can't have too many watts of transmitting power. A smart criminal could use multiple transmitters, and reflections off of buildings and such, making it that much harder for anyone to get a triangulation on the source of the noise too.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
First link was meant to be:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4422539.stm
The first original link was to the original article, which just showed a toy radio controlled plane (aw how cute) with sheriff badges on it. Useless for nothing. The real deal, is at the link above, which is a link off of that same page labed as: "Allies plough billions into drones". Far more sinister and real. Billions. Billions. Why spend billions? I'll tell you why.
These are the ulitmate in killing machines, because those driving them are in no way in harms way, those driving them can be supervised from over their shoulder like in a telemarketing calling center, and it becomes just a laptop war agame to them... and these things can kill will impunity at great distances. If the machine crashes or is destroyed, it can and will simply be replaced with one from a factory that is churning them out under government military contracts at alarming rates.
It does not question orders, it does not fear, it comes after you and it comes after you to kill you. It does one thing and one thing only, spy and destroy. More than likely, they will travel in packs, so shooting one down, you will only be swarmed by others in the local area. Guns can be mounted on them. Cameras surely. Or more than likely, an explosive charge, so like with their other assasination attempts with these things, all they have to do is fly it near you and detonate it. Hostile element purged.
They can be mass produced. They will be mass produced. And once thhey are automated to patrol and refuel on their own autonomously, they will be mass produced. What are you going to do that is looking at you? Shoot one down? That is destruction of state property, just like breaking the glass in the back of a police cruiser to get out because they are infringing upon your freedom. They will then run a slander game on you, and criminalize you, if you are caught, and lock you away in their police state prisons which extend like warehouses for miles and miles. I've seen them from the inside... its like a warehouse of people that never ends... and ocean... like looking at the clones being trained in Star Wars Episode 2. You wouldn't believe it until you saw it with your own eyes. The words "my god" come to mind from my memory.
The lines have been drawn in the sand. Either you fight back, or you die under their foot. Whats it going to be?
Do it now, because ten years from now, it will be way too late.
Or you can keep doing what you are doing now, playing on your computer and bickering like squaking hens about this or that, with no real clue as to the war going down on the street today against the pigs.
footnote:
Do you know the word "patrolling" and patrol came from "patty rollers", which were bands of white enforcers who patrolled the roads in the deep south for any slave off his plantation without a permit (read, ID card signed by his master). If any were caught without such a writ, they would be lynched and hanged or worse. This practice was picked up by the modern police force, which now assignes "routes" to cops to patrol continously and project power on a fine grain level, so that there will always be a pig within 5 minutes of any situation. This is called their "beat".
Pilot: "My job just got outsourced to a @#%&! toy plane."
Table-ized A.I.
OK, I'll bite. We got pilotless aircraft flying low and slow over neighborhoods in Los Angeles, spying on people, and the authorities say that it's for "finding missing children and lost hikers? C'mon on. The police in LA would only spend all this money on one thing:
"Nigger Control!"
To put it bluntly, in their words [in hushed whispers], not mine.
Do they really have such a big problem that they need all this Kafkaesque technology? Or are they really just a bunch of paranoid psychopathic cowboys with too much money to spend on death machines?
All this weird 'us vs. them' paranoia that infects the wealthy people of Los Angeles (more than anywhere else on Earth) is getting to be rather embarrassing. Do they really believe that their maids are gardeners are going to rise up and slaughter them in the middle of the night?
Get a grip, people, and come back down to the real world.
I'm beginning to think that the entire L.A. techno-fascist police state mentality is directly related to the local Hollywood fantasy mentality. Only it is the inverted nightmare that grows out of too much fantasy, too much money, and too many drugs.
Is there any other place where people live like this? God, let's hope that it doesn't spread.
Hmm... Now what would be really cool would be if they had some sort of computer network to coordinate these devices... maybe some sort of SkyNet...
I'm going to start moving all my drugs in a jeep.
paintball
You've got it backwards. First of all, any eye-in-the-sky the police (or for that matter, the military) would use would not be able to discern what nationality the walker is since it would be seeing him from above, from a considerable height and probably in infrared as well. Maybe if the drone passed the word to a passing police cruiser the guy might have a problem. Secondly, the police probably would wait until they had a few days of observation completed so they would know that the guy walks that way every weeknight. In fact after the first night they'd probably use the drone to backtrack him to his job and they would know that he only uses the railyard as a shortcut from work to home. Furthermore, the drone, viewing his actions from above, would certainly be able to show that he wasn't doing anything suspicious, like trying to gain entrance to a railcar or something. Finally, if his boss does find out and penalizes him in some way, then it's the boss who has broken the law (and should be made to pay for it)! Corporate shenannigans and unfairnesses like this abound in our open society. This is one of the prices we pay for our freedom. This would be no different from any other case of false slander or guilt-by-association. The only difference is that it would be initiated by new technology. All in all, those who don't break the law shouldn't have to worry about it. (And if things get so bad that they do, well, time for another revolution.)
I frequently go hiking in Los Angeles. The current ratio of Park Rangers to hikers is apalling, and certainly needs to be dealt with.
On one of my hikes, my careless smoking habits started a forest fire. It would have been nice to have a robot camera flying around to put out the fire.
The only thing is, I've never lost a child so I think this technology sucks.
Aircraft are regulated by the FAA.
This activity on Los Angeles' part got the attention of a certain pilot's association which apparently put lots of ice on the project.
So it doesn't appear to be flying anywhere above LA County anytime soon...
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
From the article: > Police say the drone [...] will be able to accomplish tasks too > dangerous for officers [...] "This technology could be used to > find missing children, search for lost hikers, [...]" said > Commander Sid Heal Yeah, those lost hikers sure are dangerous. Probably ravenous, and likely to gnaw the officer's legs off. Right! So... what would they *really* like to use this technology for?
.....but what happens when the 'bad guys' start building drones of their own?......
How about hacking the control system and taking it where the police doesn't want it to go? It would be sort of like the hackers making a PC Zombie, only this one flies.
In the article: "There must have been some sort of communication interference," said De La Torre as he inspected the multicolored wires and circuitry spilling out of his damaged drone.
Actually it was a hacker who made the $25K toy airplane crash into the empty lot.
All theory is gray
So how many people in LA own a gun and would find it amusing to shoot these clumsy things down?
Maybe your concern will be solved by the bored mob quite quickly..
"Watchbird", anyone? How soon before these things get guns mounted on them?
SkySeer only one syllable away from SkyNet....
-= This is a self-referential sig =-
From TFA:
Given the current state of technology, it sounds much more useful for specific, targeted surveillance than some sort of 24-hour-a-day let's-see-what-everybody-in-LA-is-doing kind of thing.
Personally, my own attitude towards technology in police work is that it's fine as long as the police are only using it to do something they would be allowed to do without it. There would be no problem with an individual cop standing on a public street corner and radioing back to HQ to describe what is going on, so I have no problem with putting up a video camera to do the same. But it would be unconstitutional for a cop to search my house without a warrant, and I would therefore have a problem with him using some sort of high-tech x-ray machine to peer through my walls without a warrant. But if a cop has a properly obtained warrant, I don't really care whether he searches the house via the latest technology or by hand.
In this case, it sounds as though the plan is to use the drone for targeted surveillance work from outdoor spaces, which the police are already allowed to do. If the police use it to improperly obtain evidence against a suspect (by, say, flying it inside a private space without a warrant), a halfway smart lawyer will challenge the evidence in court and it will likely be thrown out.
Given the genuinely disturbing rollback of civil liberties in the US over the past few years, I completely understand why people are paranoid about this kind of thing. These rollbacks have occurred because people have panicked about terrorism. Those of us who care about civil liberties have a responsibility not to panic in the other direction. We should focus our concerns on the many actual abuses going on, instead of getting into a tizzy about abuses that don't exist.
Arr! Read The Government Manual for New Pirates!
Griffith Park
You know, of all the science fiction stories that I'd hope would come true, Dark Angel wasn't one of them. As I recall from that series, the aerial drones were being outfitted with guns to preform assassinations. The populas never suspected because they had grown used to seeing the drones flying about, doing surveillance. I've always wondered if that series was canceled because it hit too close to home. On the other hand, the second season sucked.
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
we have written in our Constitutions "a private citizen can do anything that isn't forbidden by law, but the government can't do NOTHING that isn't authorized by law". Insane, isn't it?
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Your comments suggest that you have little or no actual flight experience.
The two most dangerous periods of a flight are the take-off and landing phases and your velocity is generally higher than "standing still". You may start out a 0 kts but you'll rotate at anywhere between 60-150 kts and land about the same. Remember, that "big bird" may not have been any where near the runway environment when you began your take-off roll or final approach. At 150 kts it's pretty darned hard to see a "big bird" particularly if approaching it head on or from the rear. The potential for drone v. piloted aircraft mishaps is very real unless the drone operators maintain keen situational awareness of the position of their UAV with respect to other aircraft. Will they be more intent on following the suspect or finding the kid than keeping clear of other aircraft? What about the whole "set it and forget it" mindset of the semi-autonomous mode of operation? This is a valid safety issue and your ad hominem attacks do not serve anyone well.
you have nothing to fear from your own government - you are being watched by your fellow citizens
Fantastic. So if have nothing to fear from your fellow citizens why exactly do we need those drones? Ah, for the foreign terrorists, of course.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
I wonder if all the Compton gangstas will launch their own drones, equipped with fat sound systems, to shoot down the police drones? That would be interesting to watch from the ground, and a lot healthier than gunfights on the streets.
Weren't there aerial drones in the short lived show "Dark Angel"?
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
Here in Maryland, the state police have a fleet of Dauphin helicopters with infrared cameras and 30 million candle-power spotlights. They can see an awful lot, day or night. In theory they can spy on anyone in any public place.
In Baltimore, the city routinely used video surveillance of public areas --particularly places known to be open air drug markets. The courts upheld the convictions of those caught on tape dealing in drugs.
My question to those who object to UAV surveillance: What do you think these things do that hasn't already been done? The courts have upheld the use of all these technologies. Does the placement on an unmanned aerial vehicle make any difference?
Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
"In the far distance a helicopter skimmed down between the roofs, hovered for an instant like a bluebottle, and darted away again with a curving flight. It was the police patrol, snooping into people's windows. The patrols did not matter, however. Only the Thought Police mattered."
George Orwell, 1984, Ch. 1
Anti-abortion activists and other right wing extremist groups have proven they are much more prone to "blow-up-my-own-country" type activities than any other group. See Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh.
Aren't you glad that they are finally thinking of the children.
SRR
Gotta keep those Left Coast perverts away from those box turtles. They might start marrying those box turtles.
Well now at least they won't be dependent on private citizens to film police beating people on the street. Cutting out the middleman, that's innovation! Cynics might suggest that a logical next step would be that they will arm these benign drones, but not me.
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Det. Bunk
Wouldn't it be much more pessimistic to assume that you pessimists are part of the problem?
I don't think you're living up to your ideals.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
So when do they arm it with Hellfire missles?
Perhaps they should just buy a few Predators and get on with it?
Initially it'll be used for basic public safety measures. But over time the cops will dream up new uses, like watching drug transactions, or people, etc.
Just take an old microwave oven, extract magnetron and waveguide, fashion a nice little parabola to focus the signal and take aim.
About 5 years ago I was pulled over on suspicion of speeding. However the sheriff had not tailed me sufficiently or radar gunned me so he had no proof. He instead called the California Highway Patrol to do a sobriety test on me. I blew a 0.0%. After they left the sheriff asked if he could search my car. I said "No", he then proceeded to search my car and of course found nothing. After he was done I asked if he was really allowed to search my car after I said "No" and he said the law only requires that they ask and it didn't actually matter what my response was. Times like that I wish I had a little video camera installed in my car. I've had 3-4 incidents of similar abuse by the law, of course, since I'm actually a law-abiding citizen and not the criminal they always think I am, I've never been busted for anything.
Put on your sunglasses people :-/
Sig sig go away come back another day
T.U.G.
So they are seeking to hire people rigorously trained to watch couples having sex?
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
It figures.
By the time I'm old enough to pilot Blue Thunder, they've outsourced the job to f'ing drones.
Go graduate from community college.
Listen p*ssy. I'm sure your the same homo that posted earlier about alf's boner and you just want to remain anonymous fo
This slashbot is lacking a humor circut and you call that "insightful"? How about -1, fucking obvious?
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
...oh wait, nevermind.
Libertas in infinitum
And they could even be armed with Hellfire missiles to stop those runaway cars in wild police chases we see on TV all the time.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Just don't fly over Compton, else somebody's gonna bust a cap on the drone's ass!
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
If it looks like a bird, won't hawks and the like try to eat it? I'm not sure that making the UAV mimic birds is "benign" for the raptors.
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
When I first read your post, I got the impression that you didn't know what you were talking about. My impression has only strengthened over time. I think you would have been better off admiting your ignorance rather than engaging in name calling.
Excellent :-) (technically incorrect, but I'll let that slide)
Listen p*ssy. I'm sure your the same homo that posted earlier about alf's boner and you just want to remain anonymous fo
Touche. :)
until a mole inside CTU, using a stolen security access card, takes control of these drones and turns them against us!
"in some countries, the Constitution says that each private citizen can do anything not explicitly forbidden by law; and that the government can only do what the law prescribes."
There is only one kind of government, and it's democracy. Evil empires and dictatorships (and even the Third Reich) are sustained by a majority of the people wanting to collaborate and spy on their neighbours and be silent about government's errors and terrors and that's it. See Brasil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, URSS, etc, etc, etc (I should write present-day-USofA, but people would mod me flamebait... oops, I did it)
Yeah, but someone has to point -- and keep trained on -- the damn thing to YOU. That someone is a wrongdoer and should be but in jail -- much more than the sympathetic old lady that used to sell pot in college.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I for one welcome our new drone overlords!
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
I'd hate to be on the 747 that happens to run into one of these. It could ruin your whole day! I wonder what the FAA rules are for these things.
This is just a media hoax to hype the upcoming major motion picture "A Scanner Darkly".
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Heh.
And here I've been agonizing over the obvious riposte, "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist".
I had no good counter to that one, so I guess I should be glad you really are left-handed.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
Doh! Missed a perfect opportunity. Oh well.
On a brighter note, that post up there got me my first Flamebait in quite a while. 'Bout time, I was starting to worry...