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Bulletproof Tool For Golden Age Browsing?
An anonymous reader writes "I work in a retirement/assisted living home. Many of the residents had never used the Internet but really find it fascinating once they are given a little training. However, I've stopped introducing it to them because of the drain it puts on me. There are a million and one things that a computer novice can screw up, and I don't have time to solve all of them. These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options. Adjustable text size would be nice, but otherwise — no email, no word processing or editing, no printing — just Internet browsing. This may not seem like a big market, but it's getting bigger every day! Is there an absolutely fool-proof device that can provide this without requiring virus scanners and constant attention?"
Before I dive in, I have to say that I don't think you adequately explained the requirements here. In one part you seem concerned about configuration, in another you seem concerned about security & finally it seems to come down to being too sophisticated for the user.
... well, in some cases degenerated minds. I don't say that to be mean but ironically my four year old cousin and my 80 year old grandfather have some of the same needs when it comes to high tech gadgets.
:). Granted, this may violate your sophistication requirement (and destroy caching), it has the huge benefit of going "Oooops, time to simply reboot."
I'm not sure which one you value the most. But, assuming we need all three, I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with
One step up from that would be to use a premade Live CD of Ubuntu or Dragonfly or some other easy live Linux OS. You show them how to reboot with it and then they can surf like that. The downside is they can't save anything to disk but the upside is they can't save anything to disk
You know, the last college I attended had labs where you had administrative privileges but they reverted to a system restore point nightly. As a result, there would be screwed up machines but only for a day or week at most.
But, if we assume you don't want to reboot with a live CD of the OLPC or Ubuntu, you could instead simply turn off cookies & turn off javascript. Why? Because javascript is the devil. I think it has some of the most flawed type casting (if I can call it that) out there today. It's not a "type safe" language. And the proliferation of JSON objects in Javascript is frightening. But once you eliminate cookies & javascript, you also eliminate a lot of functionality.
I would suggest giving them the flash plugin (pending system requirements) as it's not so bad anymore. That and they'll probably want to watch YouTube videos of their offspring. I think that is a fair trade being as the latest Flash plugin is fairly secure.
So, I would finally recommend you give them plain jane mozilla firefox with no javascript or cookies & the flash plugin. It probably wouldn't hurt to jack the security meter up to the top and just tell them that sites they can't access are bad sites anyways.
Once again, I could use more requirements before giving you a final assessment but the above two options sound like they would come pretty close to satisfying your (and their) needs. These were made under the assumptions that these people suffer from learning disabilities in their old age and, as a result, you cannot host training sessions whereby you show them safe & secure internet usage.
In the end, I predict that some of the users are going to find a way to make it hard for you and them. I suggest starting with the lightest steps and only progressing forward as necessary.
My work here is dung.
Man, you should know better than to ask a question like that on Slashdot. The Mac guys will say to use a Mac, and the Linux guys will say to use Linux. And then the Windows guys will complain about bias. Just watch =)
It's called a Nintendo Wii. Turn it on, browse awhile, zoom in, zoom out and turn it off.
F11 in Firefox goes to full screen mode. Lots less to mess up.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
Just use machines with a decent amount of RAM,like a full gig, an optical drive, and one of the mini linux distros like damn small. No hard drive needed. About as simple to do as anything and un-hosable.
Most systems and designs really suck for seniors. Small fonts, confusing UI and way too many options. I am thinking of experimenting with KDE stripped down and in Kiosk mode.
MC
Check out the VMWare browser applicance... basically a disposable OS with browser in a vmware image. If it gets broken, just create another copy - no need to worry about the base system getting hammered with crap.
VMWare Player is free - have at it!
5468652047616D65
Come on, there has to be some LiarSux plugin that Spartan-izes the web browsing experience. Or, could you use a really old browser that can't even handle a bunch of the newer stuff?
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
This seems like a no-brainer to me. You don't even need a window manager, although there are some minimalist ones that will do the trick for things like the preferences window, etc. Firefox has font-size adjustment, so that's not a problem, and you can theme gtk to be high contrast with large font sizes in the menu, etc.
Why make life difficult on yourself?
show them lemonparty. They won't be interested any more. (then again, maybe they will).
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Anyone remember the Virgin Webplayer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Webplayer I am more excited about http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardware/soa/Intel-to -launch-Linux-powered-mobile-Internet-device/0,130 061702,339274887,00.htm
download a Livecd and boot off that. I know Ubuntu is available. If you want Solaris you can take a look at Belenix.
Get a Damn Small Linux CD.
Boot off CD, to RAM if possible, and enjoy the internet.
100% worry free computer usage.
If they want the computer to do more than just the internet, tell
them the instructions are available, on the internet. Have fun.
A well-prepared linux installation is fairly unassailable and maintenance-free. Google 'lock down linux', do a bit of reading. Once you get a feel for the security measures that should be enacted, any distro with gnome or kde should work nicely for you.
What's wrong with customizing an Ubuntu install, removing easy access to all the stuff they don't need?
Pretty hard to install spyware when it's not compatible with the system.
Hell, you can run it from a live CD if you want, then they'd have a really hard time screwing it up.
Try Opera on Linux. You get full resizing (of both text and images) with single buttons (plus and minus, no modifiers needed). With Linux you can put work into locking down everything else, so e.g. you can only have a single, full-screen version of Opera running.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
I believe this is one feature of the One Laptop Per Child project. (See also Wikipedia article.)
--
Metagovernment - Government by ALL of the people.
http://www.opera.com/support/mastering/kiosk/
Designed to be used at public terminals. Bonus points for installing it on Linux.
Setup a virtual machine using whatever VM software you prefer, and then setup a script or other mechanism to whip out the existing VM and reload it from a hidden copy every interval so that if someone does screw something up... you just reload and boom, they are back.
Just make sure that your VM supports being run in full screen mode.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Software is the answer. http://pcwin.com/popular/Lock_xp_kiosk-1.htm Or the Microsoft way http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555463/en-us
Just reduce the resoultion to 800x600 or 1024x768. That is hands down the simplest, easiest way to make images and text larger on screen.
It sounds like they'd be happy with some web kiosk software. Get a live CD that's well designed and pretty, like Beatrix.
Either Damn Small Linux or Slax is what you want - easily customizable, easy to use, good browser experience, runs from either a CD or a USB Flash Drive, minimal machine requirements, can be loaded completely into memory for speed. And if somehow, somebody crashes it - just turn the machine off and on again and you're back in business...
Also, should you need bookmarks that can be easily added to, just use one of the online bookmark services - no need to worry about saving bookmarks on the local machine.
Link's details look very good to me. *shrug*
Damnit though, I'm a Firefox person.
- Gentoo Linux(minimum system means less things can be broken and less security updates required)
- ssh (for remote administration)
- xorg
- Firefox( I think there is a kiosk mode addon, and you'll have to install security updates every couple of weeks)
- dwm (remove the status bar and add rules to tag all firefox window the same)
and run it all as a user with only read/write permission to firefox's cache.
You can't disable javascript because so many websites stupidly depend on it.
I've seen some sites that don't display anything if javascript is disabled.
- Jesse McNelis
...and that is all I have to say about that.
http://jessta.id.au
Write a simple program that calls off to their favorite sites and prints them out. Then give them paper version of what they like.
Then they can pass it around, etc. Sort of like bookmark sharing.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
No help to your question, but see if you can add email to the repertoire. Browsing web may be fascinating, but nothing like being able to communicate with your kids, grand kids, relatives, and friends *UNOBTRUSIVELY* with emails. It's communication with people you give half a shit about, and it means much to them (and will be to you once you're at that age).
No cookies and no javascript make homer something something...
They are a fact of like in web 2.0. Shutting them off is a non-option.
Back in the cage, fanboi!
MSNTV (formerly WebTV) is what my grandma uses. Hooks up to her TV set, uses dialup (I think the new versions allow you to plug in a cable modem or otherwise use ethernet). Simple, not much to screw up. I think there are some anti-phishing and anti-virus things done on the server end.
I know, gonna get ripped, but what the hell...
set up a pretty decent single computer (running linux of course) and hook several terminals to it. have them either boot up like LTSP or do a small install and get X remotely. they could log in and you can set up what apps they have access to. if they aren'[t computer literate, they won't know firefox on linux from firefox on XP. and it's a bit safer, I'd wager.
or, remoce (or just unplug) the hard drives and give them boto cd's like ubuntu. or just leve the cd's in the drive. you can make a custom ubuntu cd which has only basic browsing, plus can already be set up for proxies, etc.
either way, it's gonna be hard to mess up the system. that's my $0.02. more work up front, far less down the road.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
"Yes, get a Mac."
Having done desktop support for a 700+ macintosh business environment, I'd have to say this simply isn't true. You'd be amazed at the effort some users go to break them, but break them they still do.
Naturally you'll want to look at one of the many Internet Kiosk setups out there.
My personal preference would be to roll out a thin client setup using Linux thin clients w firefox in kiosk mode as a full-screen login session. No viruses, if it crashes you reset it, etc. Simple - if you know some Linux. K12LTSP is helpful for those not already familiar with DHCP, tftp, etc and who lack an existing server infrastructure. Even if you do have an existing solid network I'd strongly recommend the LTSP base as a starting point - it's a great, non-invasive way to get the "client" part of the thin clients ready to go.
Another option would be to just use a generic system image. There are quite a few kiosk Linux distros that might do.
Why all this prattle about Linux? Because it's ideal for the job - basic functionality required, but it has to be tough, cheap, and easy to roll out. You could probably do it with WinXP Basic & Sysprep, but it'd cost you a bunch and you'd probably land up reimaging the machines regularly.
I believe someone already has done something like this with Linux, called "Cl33n Linux" http://cl33n.com/index.html It allows browsing and only uses Web Applications and Web Mail if the user wants to do some other type of work. Although it doesn't include Flash, you might be able to include that in a variation. Then install it in kiosks. Hope this helps you in your search. The only other options would be Internet Appliances, such as Compaq's old IA or WebTV.
Sorry, instead of "WinXP Basic" I meant "WinXP Starter Edition" - and it doesn't appear to be available in most countries anyway.
I find it hard to believe that this guy needs to ask the question and never heard of Kiosks or Live CDs.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Zonbu
Yes, there's a subscription fee, but if you compare it to the price of off-site storage (which it is, plus more), you'll see it's quite reasonable.
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
Various companies make thin clients that run Windows CE as the OS. These thin terminals have a standard Windows interface, but without the bells and whistles.
Most of the modern ones have a basic version of IE built-in, and can be configured to boot up from their flash disk and just run as an Internet browser. All you need to provide is a DHCP server so they can obtain an IP address and they can immediately surf the web from any network.
I have one at home for friends to "check their email" when I don't want them browsing my personal PC for my pr0n.
The good news is that you can find these suckers pretty cheap on eBay and the like. Keyboards, Mice and screens can be had for little or no money if you know where to look. All they need is electricity and a network. And there's little for them to screw-up as it's all ROM-based. Any "crash" or problem is solved by a power cycle, and you're back where you started.
TTYL
Brian C.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I don't have firsthand experience, but the Personal Internet Communicator (or similar devices (e.g. webtv)) may be what you are looking for if you are starting from scratch and have a bit of a budget.
- Move "Sig". For great justice!
Cybercafes in China install a device-driver that prevents disk-writes actually writing to the disk.
So, when you reboot the computer, it's completely clean, just as before.
You can still install patches, upgrades etc, by entering a password to take it to a special maintenance mode.
Example of the effect of the special driver:
- you plug in a usb key, and can read your files
- you make changes to the files, save them, reopen them, it looks like you changed the files
- you take the usb out and plug it into another computer. Whoa, thats wierd, the files are just like they were before you changed them!
It's an awesome system. Chinese cybercafes are decently free of adware.
I think I'd make a bootable bartpe cdrom, and put firefox on there using the kiosk plugin.
A few plugins, java, and a couple basic bookmarks, and your done.
Hardware wise, I'd have external volume, and a screen blanker.
Plus the bartpe reboots every 24 hours to make m$ happy.
I remember reading about the iMAC and thinking about that it was such a wonderful and forward thinking idea. Make a cheap console system that's limited to the vast majority of web surfing, playing DVDs, and various video streams. Lock everything down so you get rid of the nasty soup of conflicting applications and make it much easier to refresh or fix. Every 3 of 4 years when you need to upgrade the new version of the console is available to you. It's exactly what my parents would need. (As long as it also allowed some form of video conferencing). It's also what they need in most schools and libraries. In fact, put the user on a USB key, and just shuffle their personal data, and login information on to it. Honestly, lets plug a keyboard and mouse into a cheap version of the X-Box 360 and be done with it.
New! Device Legs: These legs will help your poor OEM installed product escape any hamfistedness it may encounter. Ava
Ok, we're going back to the ThinkNIC days here, but a CD based image that boots up, gives you firefox and only firefox, and in the background crond is running, rebooting at 3am every day. Set rc.local to update the time upon boot to a good time server. You could also get into LTSP and one time use user accounts (wiped after logout, recreated instantly, etc) but may be overkill for a nursing home / retirement community.
the solution to this little problem could very well be firefox+wine on a usb stick. it runs on Mac, Windows *and* Linux, can be installed on all three, is very customizable, relatively cheap, and very safe with the right extensions. not only that but you can back up the user profile, switch between them if you want and only need one good copy which you can clone ad infinitum.
a list of extensions that might just fix this little problem:
adblock [kills ads]
no script [again kills ads, helps against any javascript tricks we dont yet know about]
konquefox [adds text enlarging buttons etc]
linkification [makes text links real links]
menu editor [customizable so you clean out extra menu entries]
tab mix plus [tabs how they want] and finally greasemonkey [customizes websites like a cleaned google search for example without those ads]
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
...and a Mac can give each user their own ID (if desired), and limit that ID to only certain limited applications and actions. This feature is built right into the OS and requires no extra futzing. :o)
Macs also tend to be pleasant, reliable machines, and out-of-the-box mych less prone to gremlins...
--
Tom
Four thing.....
1) OpenDNS - block a lot of phishing and adult sites before it even reaches their computer.
2) Get them an iMac - it's simple to use and most of the hacking world does not care about MacOS. Plus, unlike Linux there's a lot of support documentation on the net that a user can tap into (and understand).
3) Firefox - Safari is nice but Firefox has more ad-blocking and anti-phishing extensions that make the Internet a safer place.
4) Gmail - ditching Outlook will save you a world of hurt.
if you are looking for a software, use suse linux and apparmor to run firefox in a sandbox! if you are looking for a hardware, just use a pc for browsing alone and do not use it for anything else! Use linux and create a user for browsing alone and when done you can delete the user's dir as well :-)
Aside from the large text size requirement, this sounds really similar to something that Jamie Zawinski (http://jwz.org) did for the DNA Lounge kiosks -- a set of diskless linux systems that all network boot from a central NFS server, and are easily resettable. (Sounds like quite a weekend to set up, though.)
For a windows base, you can use an app called Deep Freeze - its by Faronics. Basically on every reboot it re-images the hard drive. nice and easy. You can setup a "thaw" partition for saving files and have it re-image the C: partition every reboot. I believe it comes with a remote admin tool as well.
Buy them a Nintendo Wii and download Opera for it.
* It works on any TV they have, so no need to purchase a computer, find a place for a desk, etc.
* It is a easy browsing experience, with built in zoom (helpful for older eyes).
* It can do web-based e-mail, can surf the web, and view videos, etc.
* It has a built in Weather and News channels service that are intuitive and fun
* Plus, the included game (Wii Sports) might be very enjoyable and useful for maintaining activity (particularly Bowling and Golf, which don't require quick reflexes).
This statement is solely an opinion. Kindly take it as such in all cases.
I dreaded my mom getting a PC, but my dad ran out and bought them one a few years ago. They're both almost 80. Well, she never ceases to amaze me with her ability to do things right. During a recent complete system upgrade I installed Opera. She found it and uses it fully. She loves the "Speed-Dial" and has it filled up. Despite being a bit of a giddy-ditz type, she does have a BS in bio-chem and she's great with the computer.
;)
Bottom line- do NOT underestimate our seniors. Their apparant slowness belies their great intelligence, adaptablity, eagerness, and wisdom. They may take a long time to understand something which is obvious to us, but overall they deserve to have at it. If you live right and with some luck, you may live to be a senior too.
Elinks!
Check out the LivePC Engine. It lets you take a virtual machine image and put it on a USB key. You can put a secure linux web browser in a VM on the USB key and ship it to your mom. She'd just plug in and accept autorun. Every time she plugged in the key it will rejuvenate back to a clean state. You can make you're own LivePCs or use one they have made, like "Fearless Browser" or "Ubuntu 7.04"
That will do the trick.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Run Mac OSX. set it to the simple finder mode. There you can lock out all applicatons you don't want them to have. They cannot edit the icons in the dock so what they see is what they get (and they can't accidentally delete them either). And finally if ALL you really want is Browser, you can put it in kiosk mode and even have it boot that way. SO all it is is a browser, up and running when you snap on the machine.
Now if you are budget minded you could do the same with Linux. Use a Live CD, configure it to boot to a browser. Remove all the other icons and don't give them permission to the apps. One of the very easiest ones to configure this way is DSL linux which has the benefit of booting very very very fast from CD and running on old, memory starved hardware, and being parcimonous about screen realestate. However, for you i'd recomend DSL-N (not DSL) as that is more modern.
If you are not budget minded, it would be smarter to go with the mac. several reasons
1) lots of plugins will be easier to use. likepdf support in the browser itself, (flash quicktime silverlight....)
2) some folks there might want a real computer too. The liveCD linux boot will be constraining. Macs, have faster user switching so you can corral the people who need the simple finder but let other use it in advanced mode.
3) Eventually they may want to add a few more apps. maybe they want for example to have podcasts. google earth. Watch DVDs
4) you can keep a mac secure without going crazy. You can even firmware lock it to keep the wiseguys at bay.
5) it's easier to attach portable disks, second or external screens, cameras, etc... to the mac. No sys admin needed.
6) If you need support you can call apple and so can they if you are not around.
7) For desktops there are no cables and they are easy to adjust to viewing angles (like for a wheel chair)
8) easier to use applications, should they want them.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
http://www.mepis.org/book/export/html/10222
... no fun browsing internet without these two opened.
Since they need flash and java
Linux flavour of your choice plus VMWare and guest OS of your choice
anything goes wrong and simply restart the VM and all the problems are gone.
Oh and the other biggy on a mac is the meu bar is a the top of the screen and the ability to use a one button mouse. Both of those are a LOT better for your old folks. It has the handicapped access modes too (locking shift keys, high contrast views, zoomable)
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I designed an embedded computer system with integrated browsing specifically for the senior market. This was 8 years ago. I didn't succeed in raising capital. It is an idea whose time will come...
WebTV
http://www.sandboxie.com/
As every poster has pointed out, you can rock-solid a computer with Kiosk modes, virtual machines, etc, etc. But if you're going to put a tool like the Internet into the hands of (shall we say) "unskilled" users, you have a responsibility to protect them from the baddies.
Before anyone gets on the computer for the first time, drill some basic saftey tips into them. Do not give out passwords. Do not give out personal data. Do not give out financial data. Not to anyone, no matter how legit it looks. For many, this is probably their first experience on the internet. You cannot take for granted that they have been ingrained with The Basics. They don't know about Phishing. They don't know people can make a website that looks exactly like their banks' website. They don't know about Nigeran princes. Their bases have only every belonged to them.
Print out some Golden Rules, and post them in the computer lab/common area/whatever. If the computers are going to be in the resident's apartments, make sure you print out something that can be stuck to the monitory.
Send them out to play, but not in traffic.
You can do some things behind the scenes as well. Route everything through a gateway you control. Make sure you have some good security on it. Go grab PeerGuardian's list, and maybe mvps.org's host file. Keep it up to date so that it blocks all the well known phishing sites. Concider blocking any outbound request for an IP address (rather than an URL). Run a mail server with a kickass spam filter, and give them all their own email boxes. (grandpaAbe@shadyacres.com). It also makes it easier to whitelist their friends&family email addresses to let legit attachments through.
Try running guided tours of the Internet. Don't just pluck them down and say "here you go". Show them good places to go, and how to get there. News sites. Wikipedia. National Geographic's site. Typing Tutor sites. Maybe some instructional courses: How to use Flickr to view and post family albums. How to edit a Wikipedia article about the hometown they grew up in (and know everything about... preserve the knowledge!)
Do this right, and not only will you have safe comptuers-- but you'll also have safe, happy, productive users.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Subject says it.
If you are really, REALLY only interested in a browser, then Firefox on Linux takes the cake. VMWare-based solutions are overcomplicated and under-performing. Firefox on Linux has the following neat qualities:
1) Once configured with well supported hardware, it's nearly impossible to hork without the root password.
2) cron can automagically apply updates (via yum on RPM distros, apt on Debian derivatives) via cron.
3) Viruses are rare to non-existent. (See #1)
4) Usability is good - it's not hard to teach somebody how to use it.
5) Compatability is decent. (not all flash/shockwave/java thingies work without a bit of crabbing, but it's usually doable)
6) Works wonderfully with that old 1.5 Ghz P4 you got at the yard sale for $80.
7) Remote support is decent. You can ssh in, forward X11 to your local system, and see whatever they see.
But, if you want MORE than the basics (EG: a browser + Internet connection) and might want to give the users a full computer (TM) then I'd strongly recommend a Mac. They can be had used for fairly cheap, almost all will run OSX, and I've never seen a computer that I've had fewer problems with when my 6 kids bring over their 27 friends to my (forever messy) kid-friendly house.
If they are more expensive, it comes back rather quickly in "OMFG IT JUST FRICKKEN WORX!" savings. (but don't expect Windows Media support anytime soon)
And, in case you are curious, I'm a long-term Linux geek, my laptop runs Fedora Core 6, my servers are all CentOS 4.x and I love 'em. They are rock-solid and the servers deliver 99.95% uptime. (most of the last 0.05% is not because of software problems, either)
Linux is fabulous for servers, passable for a deskop, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support.. MacOS is the opposite - teh shiznit for desktop systems thanks to great OS and decent 3rd party support, but only passable for a server.
Windows is, at best, median at either - although it's a crappy solution to both desktop and server issues, the industry 3rd party support makes up for much of the rotting carcass that is the Win32 API.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
How can it possibly getting bigger every day? The people that are getting older are the ones that are already accustomed to the Internet/email/all that stuff, so I can't agree with your reasoning at all that the market you're speaking about is getting bigger every day - if anything it should be getting smaller as we will eventually see 100% of my generation (who grew up with computers) being elderly and knowing exactly what the internet is and how to use it.
:)
Of course, something new gets invented down the road that is similar in significance to the internet, and you'll have a whole new problem to solve
"You had this look that of an angel, it was such a bad disguise" --Dishwalla
Don't game consoles have browsers? Inexpensive too, because they hook to the TV, and don't require a monitor.
-- Subvert the dominant paradigm. Repeat as desired. http://ownlifeful.com/
Why bother with a LiveCD at all? If you have machine with a harddisk then give them a full fledged linux system fully installed, the majority of your limitations will go away and suddenly the idea of buying a Mac is less attractive.
Software Freedom Day!.
Why not just use virtual machines and or systems booted off Flash drives/CD Roms? You can pre-configure them to have as little or as much information available to them as you want. Delete all the control panel stuff, my computer stuff Just have it boot a system, load a network driver and open a browser. If something goes wrong, show them where the reboot button is... The only thing left to worry about is all that porn, i dont think old people realize what a sick and twisted place the internet really is >:)
Yeah, a Mac is definitely the way to go if you can. You can set up a Mac Mini to be a browsing "appliance" quite easily, and it will be secure, functionally immune to viruses, pretty much idiot-proof, yet still compatible with 99% of the web sites out there. You also have an easy and obvious upgrade path for those who display aptitude and interest in a more comprehensive computer experience.
You could certainly build a linux box that was similar (though it would lose compatibility with some sites), but if someone hasn't already designed a distro that is close to this purpose, you'll spend a lot of time and effort reinventing what you can do with about a dozen clicks after plugging a Mac Mini in.
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
Get them on facebook.
'nuff said
A few years ago, I worked for a technology company, Smiling Screens Inc., as an intern. They were developing a program specifically for this scenario, SimpleC. Their idea was to create a program that provided basic functionality--pictures, email, internet, games (solitaire), and an internet browser--to the user. Their focus, as of a few years ago, was specifically the elderly, so you may want to get ahold of them.
Grandmothers who have never used a computer are the Gnome target demographic these days. It's assumed they will be using it anyway, at the expense of the needs of the geeks who comprise the majority of their userbase.
Alright, you want a cache. And you probably want Firefox, although honestly, any browser that you can put into a "kiosk mode" will work -- I'll bet Konqueror can be coerced into that.
But short of that, the way to make it truly bulletproof is to make absolutely nothing writable that doesn't have to be. That way, even if someone manages to find a way to download something, they won't be able to do anything with it. A "noexec" flag on that partition might help.
This does NOT mean a LiveCD environment -- you want to get updates. LiveCDs are writable now, until you reboot, so you could become a zombie for a short amount of time, if Linux ever gets targeted for that. Many are also configured to make it easy for you to become root, and as root, they could theoretically find a way to flash the BIOS or something. And it means you don't get a persistent cache, which is a nice thing to have.
There are also other reasons to want updates. As an example, Firefox 2.0 has spellchecking in textareas -- for example, this Slashdot comment (even if I'm writing it in Konq). If you had them on a LiveCD made before Firefox 2...
If it was just that it's a communal computer that might get messed up by other people, I'd suggest creating user accounts, and offering to backup/restore said accounts in case they screw anything up -- possibly with something like ZFS snapshots. That would let them save passwords, for example. But who's going to remember to log out properly, or, when faced with someone else's account, who's going to remember to log them out and then log in? And who's going to remember a password, anyway?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
DSL (damn small linux)
or
DSL-N (damn small linux-not) if it gets a virus reboot it.
Otherwise a bartpe image probably can do the trick as well. Boots off of cdrom, can be modified for a specific task (like web browsing) and away you go.
Im probably making a few assumptions, like you have a little cheap adsl router sitting in front of you to hand out dhcp addresses, but thats not hard to acquire really.
There is an easier way to do it with Linux than live CD. Much higher performance as well.
Start with a full install of Debian or Ubuntu or any other distribution that strictly complies to the fs standard and does not write into /usr. Build it with separate /,/var,usr and use tmpfs /tmp /var/tmp. Install all necessary plugins. Once you are happy with the result switch /usr to read-only mode. Do not give them a root password and provide sudo instructions for the visiting grandchildren if the golden age customer asks them to install something in addition.
This has been tested on a Golden Age customer (my mom) and this setup is the first machine she has had so far that does not require any maintenance. It just works regardless of powercuts, cats sleeping on the keyboard, etc. She had a windows before that and it got trojaned with a dialer hijacker which clocked her an insane phone bill. It also worked 10% of the time. During the rest it was suffering from various windowsy degenerative diseases. Prior to that she had a linux with a normal read-write install and she successfully managed to f*** it up by pressing the power button during fsck a couple of times.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Hi! Plejaden have just expanded to USA, so you could give them a try! This is just what u're searching for! http://www.plejaden.net/ Denis
Microsoft Bob should do the trick.
with a 21 inch monitor (nice big text by default), OpenBSD, no X, just a terminal. What's not to like?
"These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options."
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
From the summary: "This may not seem like a big market, but it's getting bigger every day!"
_ t_it_time_we_forked_the_concept_of_a&more=1&c=1&tb =1&pb=1
Amen! This site:
http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=isn
just mentioned a need for this the other day, albeit not focusing on seniors but low-skilled users in general. When is some company going to see the market?
My father worked for a semiconductor company and he had privy access to all kinds of new gadgets.
No other gadget sticks out in my mind more clearly as a to-be-flop than the Internet Appliance.
None of those devices on the Wikipedia article look exactly like that which my father brought home 10 years ago. The device I remember had a 13" screen, but I hope I have provided something of substance for you to begin more intensive research.
Cheers!
2 ideas for you to think about... 1. Install a live CD-image to the drive or boot from a write-protected USB memory or similar... That way at every reboot they will go back to the default-config. 2. If you really need windows and explorer to browse IE-only pages then it would probably easier to install linux and setup a vmware-player install to automaticly start on the machine, and for the config-options you just set it to discard all changes to the filesystem, so if they reboot you are again back to the defaults. If they have any need to keep bookmarks one idea could be to use the bookmark-syncer so even if they are booting into a ramdisk it would sync the bookmarks. If they need to save files, or are using Explorer for the browsing then one idea could be to place their profiles (but not the web-cache!) on a USB-stick to enable them so save files and to keep their bookmarks between reboots.. The only bullet-proof way i can see of these too is probably booting a linux-system on a ramdisk and using the bookmark-syncer since it has less things that can go wrong... Hope you figure something out.
What about a Nintendo Wii with the opera browser? Not only will it browse the internet but you can pop in wii bowling and some of the more frail who cannot bowl anymore would probably pick up a wiimote and start to play again.. I know I have fun and it's pretty intuitive.
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
I think people that aren't used to using computers or the web - fear it not because of problematic usability (although there's no question about the need to simplify it), but because they fear to cause any sort of damage to the machine while misusing it. why not offer a risk-free operating system? something you can use without the ability to mess things up. Call it the iGeezer...
Locksmith
Sometimes I help the elderly learn about computers. One thing that never fails to amaze them is Wikipedia.
Sifting the signal from the noise in a typical google search is just too complex for people that are computer novices as well as internet novices. But show them the Wikipedia plugin, where they can just search on whatever they're curious about and immediately get a single response that probably answers their question, and they'll immediately grasp just how cool the internet can be and they'll want to learn more.
I usually set windows to large or extra-large fonts, too. Just ask them which setting they find most comfortable while they are in front of the computer.
In FF or konqueror, you can zoom on text with control mousewheel... that might be handy in this case.
Not enough time to address all the accessibility considerations, so I'm mostly going to focus on the security considerations. I concur with the recommendation of using a bootable CD to block most of the security problems. My own experiences with the Ubuntu Linux CDs have suggested it is quite adequate for the needs of most users. Actually, you still won't block all the problems, but at least you'll return to square one each time you boot.
For storing persistent data and email, I would recommend the simple approach of gmail. They can even conveniently store some files there as attachments to draft email. That's not a blanket recommendation, since I feel like Google is losing some of their goodness these days, but it seems to be the best approach available right now.
Kind of tangential, but if they want to do some writing on the Web, Google's blogging system is quite good and well integrated with gmail.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Have you ever heard of Faronics DeepFreeze? It's a virtualization program that preserves a hard drive's data by automatically erasing all changes made during a session upon reboot. Some Internet cafes and other providers of public Internet access install DeepFreeze on their machines.
_ Personal_Edition_d5702.html
The bad news is that DeepFreeze is not free. The good news is that a similar program called Returnil Virtual System is available for free to private users. Get it here: http://www.majorgeeks.com/Returnil_Virtual_System
Ok so whos going to be starting the One laptop per old person project ?
My first thought was to do a Linux livecd of some sort (or MacOS or BartPE or OpenBSD if you're not a Linux fan.) You *should* be able to do a pretty safe read-only-/usr environment instead, which will perform better and be a bit more reliable, and you can build yourself a reinstall-everything CD/DVD to fix things in case it's acting up - just try to find some way to preserve any user account settings. VMWare or User-Mode Linux or Xen can make it easy to build a heavy-duty sandbox environment to make it easier to keep the basic system safe if you want.
The important part of the user's interface to the operating system is that if they turn the power switch off and then on again, everything will work as if it were loading from scratch. Maybe they need to type in their name and a password, or maybe not.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Javascript is a type safe language. A language is "type safe" if every operation allowed by the type system has a well-defined runtime behavior. C type casts are not safe; for example, the type system allows you to cast an integer to a pointer and then deference that pointer, even though at run time it may point to garbage. Javascript's implicit casts, while arguably a bad idea, have well defined run time behavior. Javascript is a type safe language.
See here and here, or even better, read Pierce's excellent book "Types and Programming Languages".
I have been running the business version for nearly two years along with IE6 for those sites that don't "play nice" with Firefox and have never had an issue.And I installed my old home premium on a box for my 10 and 11 year old nephews(the youngest of which can bring an Internet connected Windows box to its knees in a matter of minutes)and nearly a year later it is still happily humming along.And as for your target audience, my 64 year old mother who knew zip when it comes to tech was up and running in under three minutes of coaching,and it set up her built-in "Winmodem" in 4 simple clicks of the wizard.I had nearly given up on finding a Linux that would work on that thing,but Xandros purred like a kitten on it
I think the combination of Crossover sandboxing the browser along with the Xandros security center that makes locking down the box very easy would probably be just what you are looking for.And then with the browser sandboxed and running on a non Windows OS you can allow them JScript and Flash without fear of breakage.I know some here get down on Xandros because of their deal with MSFT,but for those without Linux experience that needs everything to "just work" Xandros can be a blessing.
Anyway that is my .02 cents.They have a free trial of the business pro(but not the home pro,for some reason) that includes the Crossover trial.Why don't you download it and give to them for a month to see how it goes? Then if it suits your needs you can simply pick up a copy of the Home premium or the Business(The only difference I've noticed is the ability in Business to hook up to AD servers,which is why I suggested Home) and you'll be good to go.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Cafes are starting to install Linux/KDE/kiosk admin. There they have to worry about your issues and potential vandelism and scriptkiddies. A kiosk would be great for you as it's easy to disable anything you like and have auto logins. A pentium 3 or higher would run Kubuntu or Fedora with no problems. You would only need to setup Firefox with Flash, etc.
The package I use is kiosktool, on Kubuntu (currently at least)
You could likely have better uptime than any other solution, for a cheaper price.
I remember the days of helping customers with WebTV and that was harder to configure and teach, good luck in any case.
PS Knoppix would be an easy out, you can have persistent settings.
Older folks ought to take some community college courses on internet literacy before they are released into internets. Otherwise, many of them, I guarantee you, will help that rich prince from some African country to get to his multi-billion bank account by sending him a few thousand of their own hard earned money.
Hey, I mean the poor feller needs help and he is going to repay with dividends!
I would recommend trying a thin client. You can use either Windows or Linux (keeps everyone happy;) and they are fairly easy to set up such that no changes are written to disk (they have a write cache filter; at least the HP ones do). Under windows, you can configure a Guest profile that automatically logs in (with a 30 character password), has no privileges and which is presented with a single window only - Firefox. Add NoSCript and AddBlock and you are away. Might also want to run it in Kiosk mode. The users only need to be taught one thing: if things go bad, turn it off, then turn it back on.
If you choose to use Linux or some BSD you can run something like xinit /usr/bin/firefox to launch X and run firefox
In windows you can set the shell to iexplore or firefox instead of explorer.exe. This this is stored in the registry. If I remember correctly it resides both in HKLM and HKCU. You ofcause only set it for the user that logs in or the administration would be tricky.
When the application is shut down, Windows or X shuts down too. If you run X you will have to set it up so the computer shuts down too. Maybe add some "are you really really really sure and not lying that you want to consider shutting down the system?"-dialog.
This is one of the few days that I actually want to mod someone and have no points. Seriously though, of everything I have read on this topic, this is the best suggestion and the kind of sound advice that a lot of techies forget. Me included too--kiosks and virtual machines were the first things that came to my mind when this is what should have.
I know a company that is shipping just such a device.
Only in the UK at the moment.
Just give them a bunch of Nintendo DSs with the internet browser cartridge. There's no possible way to mess that up. And the living dead are perhaps the only beings on the planet who would be patient enough to put up with how slow that browser is. I realize the screens are small, but that's what they all have those magnifying glasses on lanyards around their necks for!
Whatever OS you choose to use, it's probably going to be on an x86 based machine. I'd assume you aren't going to have a computer solely for this one purpose so VMWare could work out really well. Set it up exactly how you want it, take a snapshot. If things go sour on it, just hit revert to snapshot. Then you have OS protection so they won't screw up your OS(resulting in having an IT guy come out and fix it) and they can goof it up all the want.
"What? You deleted NTLDR cause you needed the 250kb of space? No prob!"
If you can put some money into it, far and away the best way to do it, you can make it so that certain sections are editable, but upon reboot everything else is back how it was (EVERYTHING)
:-)
e )
It seems like the magic bullet you are looking for. Combine it with your preferred flavour of Web Browser and voila: instant idiot proofing
I know I know, every time you build something idiot proof they build a better idiot. But it will be 60 years before those new idiots get to the retirement homes
http://www.faronics.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Freeze_(softwar
Can't we all just get along
... and a reset button.
They are adults.
They are not children.
Let them do whatever they want with those computers, use a decent OS (i.e. Linux, Solaris) and wipe out the disk with a fresh install every night.
Let them play with the computer, get stuck, and ask them to help each other. Solve one problem at the time, they will learn to do so themselves.
For people severely limited you can use a kiosk mode install....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Umm. youn forgot that linux isn't ready for the desktop and linux is still too hard for normal people.
Forget that these aren't normal people and better then normal people would be doing the hard stuff (pointing and clicking to change settings). The point is, linux isn't ready.
Oh, and don't forget that it doesn't play the latest random windows games.
PS, is there something up with the captcha system. I hav eposted 4 anonymous messages and so far I had to spell out "palpable" "unclean", "deport", "worker", and "unproven". It is almost like it is trying to send a message.
I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with ... well, in some cases degenerated minds.
'In some cases' is the key phrase here. In most homes there will be enough people who are perfectly capable of using a computer.
In short, my advice is to find the one of them with the most clue or potential for clue and make him/her the sys admin. Then let them do what they like.
I work in geriatric psychiatry and my group has been interviewing older people in institutions to understand in what way their needs are or are not being met. A common theme that arises among the cognitively intact (who are quite often smarter than most of us) is that they feel useless, they can see there are needs within their environment that are not met and they are not empwered to do anything about it. This upsets them greatly.
You've probably got people in your home who were in techincal jobs before they retired, and are more than capable of looking after a couple of PCs. Give them some Linux CDs or Windows or whatever and a good book and let them figure it out. They've probably got nothing better to do.
They'll feel empowered, they'll teach their friends, and leave you alone. Don't patronise them, don't give them a crippled system.
Same here, my mother is using debian, firefox, google mail and openoffice allows her MS compatible document exchange for her charity work; the box is behind a firewall and the setup works flawlessly. People who claim linux isn't ready for this kind of setup are clueless, it is windows which cannot function properly in this setup; my mothers friends all operate spyware and virus infested zombie spam mail systems and I am glad I don't know enough about windows to help them out. Windows + office also costs a bundle.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
Use a Wii, thats got all the features you asked for.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Make sure you have a decent Firewall / Gateway. There are lots of good ones on the 'Net. I use IPCop, which has a Squid proxy as well as lots of addon programs. URLfilter is useful to remove the totally obnoxious.
That's it, except that imho you should not tie the machines down to the point at which they become useless and painful to use.
Is there an absolutely fool-proof device that can provide this without requiring virus scanners and constant attention?
IMHO (pardon the bluntness): there isn't a UI that will ever be conceived that a sufficiently skilled idiot can't break.
I am Jack's smirking revenge.
Easy, there is specialised Web kiosk software that is free and easy to get and use - http://webconverger.com/
I see the battle of the platforms and I'm not going there.
As a geriatric care manager I setup and instruct Seniors in computing.
Each individual has different needs. In some cases I use programmable keyboards, in others I use Voice Recognition software. I restrict access in email to known addresses, and block any uninvited incoming pop ups or updates.
If a person can turn on the computer with one button, go to email, browser, word processor, music, and photos with one button or voice command most of the questions disappear.
What hardware do Seniors like for this application?
In the past the igloo iMac was a favorite among users for it's small footprint and colorful design, built-in speakers, basic simplicity.
Ease of use, no virus issues, easy to control from a setup point of view.
If you just wait long enough, they'll die and everyone else will just be smart enough to use firefox
Out of experience I can tell you that ginving these people a mac will do very well. In addition you can easily arrange the settings so they only have internet and e-mail. Both my own parents (80) and my father in law (85) have thus been happily surfing away with minimal maintenance from my side and no viruses and no computer down time from their side. They both use second generation iMac's which now are more than 5 years old and everything is still working fine!
yeah, setup about 10 macs in a common area of the retirement home and let them at it. after all, how much should that cost approximately? .... about 10k? that's nothing for the (as Master Jobs would say)"synergy" they will have using a mac.
If you are a serious windows user and you don't want to go the Linux or OSX route try XP Embedded (XPE). I have played with XP Embedded and it has a nice feature where you can lock the hard drive (or flash card). When a user boots all the temporary stuff is created in a RAMDrive. You can install standard software such as Firefox or some office software and then lock any further changes. People can keep their documents etc on a USB stick. When the PC is rebooted then it reverts back to the locked down version. There is even a hibernate once a resume many feature where the OS is loaded from a hibernate image which is extremely fast.
In an ideal word Linux would be the best bet but XPE has its benefits if you are from a windows background.
Built-in Internet Explorer. Set it to autoload on start-up. Not even any moving parts to break.
p
http://www.wyse.com/products/winterm/S30/index.as
If you need HDD writing etc, you could use Virtualization and setup a config so when it's rebooted a virgin image is copied over the top of the one they just messed up (VMWare have a web browsing appliance if I remember rightly). Alternatively a LiveCD might do the trick!
GNU/Linux is your friend. The local French Institute here has implemented an Internet cafe with Ubuntu Linux, properly customised to only allow the user to open Firefox. It works perfectly. No real need for contstant virus scanning etc. You can choose any GNU/Linux distro (I recommend Debian) and customise it quickly to make it look like a kiosk OS. Easy, quick, secure, safe, and FREE.
The simplest way is to buy a $40 case/powersupply, a $50 motherboard, $36 worth of RAM (1GB DDR2-667), a $50 CPU (Celeron D, for example), and a $20 CDROM drive. For less than $200 (not including a monitor), you are good to go. Use onboard sound and video.
Use any live distribution of any OS that boots from CD that you like. If anything goes wrong, just reboot. Upgrades are simple, give them a new CD. If they ever want a full computer, just add a hard drive (and a video card if desired).
If it's just used for browsing, performance will be essentially flawless. There is no host OS to maintain and no hard drive to get corrupted or fail.
1) Use a Mac Mini. Several other people have provided details on how to configure it, so I won't repeat them here, but it's the way to go if you want an insanely great out-of-the-box experience, plus you have someone else (Apple) to support the hardware.
/home, but eventually someone will run out of space. OTOH, Firefox plus the Google cache extension eliminates much of the reason for a permanent /home.
2) Use a Wii. Ditto the preceding.
3) Use Linux. Configure a set-top system with Opera or Firefox. Install the plug-ins and extensions you think they'll need, browse some useful websites to fill up the cache, etc. You could then move it to a VM, but you'll get the same results if you change all of your partitions to read-only mode and use unionfs to overlay tmpfs filesystems (flagged as noexec) over the ones you want people to write to. Just make sure that when you're done, every filesystem *must* be flagged as either ro or noexec to reduce the severity of any virus infections. By preloading the cache, everyone will have a faster surfing experience, but overlaying tmpfs will ensure that any virus infections will get wiped at reboot. You can maybe allow people to write to a real
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
Same here with the sole difference of Yahoo Mail instead of Google Mail.
I will also add the following trick to this. You can safely test any improvements, configs, desktop settings, locks etc with a 5 year old prior to deployment. If it works and he does not break it, you can safely roll it out onto the unsuspecting golden age population.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Ok, if you want to run windows (and why wouldn't you? that's a joke, kids..) you can download microsoft shared computer toolkit, or as the intertube's amazing google shows me what is now called windows steadystate. linky: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamil y/sharedaccess/default.mspx
lets you run up a basic windows box, get it configured to the point you want it (firefox starting in fullscreen mode on startup, perhaps?) then set it so that no matter what the user does, no changes survive a reboot. if they want to save photos get them to do it to a second partition or a usb drive.
That way, every morning when they boot up, it's that same fresh load you prepared for them months ago. Tasty. I used to use this in a school where the kids needed admin rights for a certain piece of badly written software and it works a treat, no matter what they did it was brand new after a reboot.
So, wait...you're suggesting that visiting strangers should have sudo instructions/access but not the main users of the machines? I can't imagine that applications would be installed so frequently as to be problematic for the OP to install, thereby maintaining security and avoiding apparently-random changes to the installation. Plus the consensus so far seems to be towards read-only privileges to /usr, would it not be even simpler to offer something along the lines of removable media, such as a USB stick, for saving to and simply allowing the default installation of applications? At the very worst, if the users are aware of Gmail, on attempting to save a dialogue could be configured to suggest that either a USB key is required or that the user simply email the document to themselves for online storage?
I am, regretfully, inexperienced with *nix but it should, I'd imagine, be possible? And this way maintains security/integrity of the machines.
Of course if the machines are regarded as the property of the people using them then they should certainly have more freedoms, whether that incurs more work for the sysadmin is, to my mind, irrelevant. People are never to old to learn and adapt and, some research suggests, continuing to learn reduces the likelihood of memory-loss, degenerative mental illnesses.
If "their favourite news site" requires jumping through hoops to pretend to be Internet Explorer on Windows before showing anything, the Linux answers above probably aren't going to be helpful. Although there really isn't much out there that isn't accessible from other platforms*, it's worth checking people's expectations first.
The last time I did this for someone (this was setting up a PC for one 80-year-old rather than a roomful of people though) Windows was the way to go because other required applications only ran on Windows, but we went with Firefox as a web browser because it was a bit clearer to use than IE6 - it has a separate search box, which IE6 didn't, for example. IE7 might be a consideration now for people who aren't familiar with the Windows UI.
Issues were:
o Text size of course (which you've already mentioned).
o Double-clicking versus Single-clicking - if people do need to go outside the browser it might be worth setting whichever OS it is to "single click to open an item" so that there's no single / double click confusion.
o Mouse Control tricky for people unfamiliar with it.
Another thought - maybe something like one of Nokia's Internet Tablets? (http://europe.nokia.com/A4145104). I can't vouch for how old-person-friendly they are, but the old ones (770s) are now very cheap - around 80 quid in the UK
There are a lot of good suggestions here, so I'll add mine. I apologize if this has already been mentioned; wasn't interested in scanning through each and every post.
Use Thinstation. It's a stripped down distro of Linux that can be easily configured to startup FireFox. It runs quite well on old hardware and can be booted from the HDD, flash stick, CD, or PXE. The config file is pretty simple and can be inserted into the ISO for quick Live CD action.
There are other great suggestions above with using OS X or all permissions removed from a Unix box. Basically you just need something that runs as a kiosk and wont be susceptible to malicious sites.
Buy them an imac. No box just a flat screen on their desk. Leave the keyboard in the box, just give them the mouse for starters. Set to use simple finder (so everything disappears off their desktop) Pull everything out of their dock except their web browser. (FF, safari, whatever) Open their browser and add a bookmark group and put a bunch of news sites like cnn and slashdot and soforth into one of the bookmark folders. Set their home page to the one they are most likely to prefer, one that has lots of new content every day. (CNN would be better for this than say slashdot) Enable the "home" button in the browser. (I know it's not on by default in Safari) Turn on popup blocking. Get info on (home)/Library/Preferences/com.apple.dock.plist and set it to owner no write access so they can't permanently remove it from their dock. (resets on reboot). Advise them to restart their computer if anything goes wrong. Yes they'll be rebooting it more than they should but it will zero your support calls)
No viruses, no spyware, no popups, no questions, no problem.
You might also put ichat in their dock and set them up a free aim account and put yourself in their buddy list and show them how to click on the icon and click your camera to chat with you if they DO have a question. I suppose you may want to leave them with the keyboard but that's up to you.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Use a live CD, etc.
l
;-))
;-)
Here's an example:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4984662030.htm
There are many more (and I'm sure you're going to get lots of advice here, of various sorts/levels
Long story short, search for liveCDs and/or kiosks
Best of all, find a local linux geek to help you set it up, etc.
Unfortunately, firefox cannot scale imaged with page zoom or keep track of the individual page zoom level (though I hear it will be better in 3.0).
I use Zoomy as an extention for buttons to zoom the text in and out. It's just a couple icons that shortcut to ctrl-+ and ctrl--.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Can you make VMWare with Windows and and IE7 run in this scenario? There are lots of things (embedded Windows Media, etc) out there that I wouldn't expect to work on this setup, so that makes me wonder if this read only setup would also support VMWare with Windows and IE7, or at least Windows plus Firefox and MS's WMP plugin.
Ideally, the Windows session would pop into existence when invoked from the frozen image, and then everything but the original image disappears at the end of session.
Hmm, can the user have bookmarks with these read-only setups?
Tastes Like Chicken
To be the heritical windows users. Just set the machine up however you like and then install Deepfreeze. Have the machine reboot every night and deepfreeze will reset it back to your saved state. This has the advantage of safely (for you) allowing IE. Thus more websites will work for them, leading to even less work for you. The downside is it will cost you a bit of money.
I haven't used it myself, but saw a link to it recently (on /. I believe) and thought it might be interesting:
http://www.sandboxie.com/
If you're using Microsoft as your OS just install Steadystate from M$ http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?Fa milyId=D077A52D-93E9-4B02-BD95-9D770CCDB431&displa ylang=en
An easy tool which you can lock down the PC for just browsing and nothing else - it takes an image of your drive and when you reboot it restores the PC to that original image - no need fopr Anti Virus / Spyware and the rest of the crap.
I never talk up M$ products but this kind of fits the posters requirements without shelling out money or learning other OS's.
There are technical solutions to some of the technical problems (e.g., malware), but there are no technical solutions to the human problems. I can tell you this for free: there's nothing you can do that will stop people who need constant attention from needing constant attention.
I'm The Computer Guy at a small public library, so I have a fairly good idea what kinds of things people will need you for. They will need you because the website they are looking at says they need Adobe Acrobat (or Macromedia Shockwave, or Real Audio, or Quick Time, or Bob's Obscure Plugin, or whatever), and they don't know remember, from the last time they asked you, whether they have the plugin or not. Also, in many cases the get-the-plugin link is significantly more prominent on the site than the link you should click if you already have the plugin, so they will click the "click here" link and be taken to the download site for the plugin, and they won't know why or how to get the content they wanted. They will need you because the website they are looking at doesn't answer their questions, or have the information they want. They will need you because the website they are looking at doesn't have the photo on it that it had last week, that they want to look at. They will need you because the website they are looking at does contain the picture they want to look at, but it's shrunk down really small, and they want it to be bigger, and they tried clicking on the picture to make it bigger, but it didn't work. They will need you because the website they are looking at was designed by an idiot and is virtually impossible to navigate. They will need you because the website they are looking at contains a factoid, and they aren't sure whether it's really true. They will need you because the website they are looking at contains an advertisement designed to look like a scary system error dialog containing the word "illegal", and now they are afraid they will be in trouble with the law. They will need you because the website they are looking at has informed them that their computer monitor is emitting radiation. But perhaps the biggest one is, they will need you just because they are bored and lonely and want to talk to someone, so any excuse will do. Technology cannot solve all these problems.
Getting rid of the option to print will help quite a lot, though. Printers are a major source of various strange annoyances in any case, but printing content from arbitrary websites is generally an exercise in frustration even for a quite knowledgeable user, and it really REALLY does not mix well with end users. They will whine and plead and beg, but absolutely do not let them talk you into installing a printer. You *will* regret it if you do. The printer will be the bane of your existence.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I work with seniors and am looking for similar simple usage tips. Share what works. I have a few things I've learned about what is interesting to them. Part of my job is getting them interested enough to sit down and push buttons.
No.
The OAP has the possibility to elevate his privileges to install an applications and has the instructions on how to do it.
Based on experience the OAPs never ever uses that. He/She always coopts visiting grandchildren to do that. While you can create them an account as well it always ends up being done from the OAP account as well so no need to do that./
In the meantime he/she has 0 privileges on the machine and keeps on using it and it does not break.
By the way - these are simple practical observations on a number of Linux installs done by me or some of my friends for the parents. While they may seem weird, that is the way it turns out to be in real life.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
We use Ubuntu on our public computers because the windows boxes were getting to be a real problem to lock down without an A/D controller.
Users can do whatever they want with the machine but the firewall behind them only allows web traffic. We're using Squid, DansGuardian and Clam A/V there.
If a public workstation does get fouled up we just pop in a cd and type nuke and twenty minutes later it's a fully functional machine.
There are lots of things (embedded Windows Media, etc) out there that I wouldn't expect to work on this setup
Using mplayer-plugin with Firefox and the full array of mplayer codecs works fine for me. On my Fedora box, just adding the Livna repositories enables yum to install everything in one shot with a "yum install mplayer*".
At Brooklyn Museum we developed an excellent kiosk plug in for Mozilla and Firefox. It's better than anything you can buy (which is why we developed it, and why Brooklyn Museum continues to update it). We used it for secure installations in galleries. It would be really easy to set up a browser-only computer with the settings you want, using this extension for Firefox:
http://www.mozdevgroup.com/clients/bm/
--Matt
Yeah, but then it would work like a normal computer. People might actually have the gall to think they are allowed to write programs for it. Then the "evil hackers" will find a way. Next thing you know...OMG! Those nasty "pirates" might be able to write programs without paying the console manufacturer their "rightful" penance! Oh may the royal subjects of the console lords never be so bold!
All hell will break loose! Oh the humanity!!! AAAAArr rrgggghhh!! aaaahhhhh hhhhhh!!!!! SCARY.
Does cl33n do dial-up, and does it load direct to ram and eject the disk? With that said I just mentioned damn small as an example (and one that is easily modifiable to hit the article submitter's requirements), so far, of the ones I have tried, I like Austrumi which is slackware based for the mini distros, but it doesn't default to english and still needs some work there.
You are asking for a technology solution (hardware/software) to a social problem (training, personal resources). Any one of the hardware & OS suggestions here would probably be fine, but they won't solve your core problem of trying to be in too many places at once.
The solution? Start a Computer Club in the home. Spend some time identifying the most-computer-savvy residents and train them on all of the equipment. Give them a title ("internet guru" or "internet certified") and put them in charge of training, educating and helping the other residents (sort of like setting up a free L1/L2 help desk). They will be more responsive to the other residents, and may be able to suggest things that you would never consider.
Most of all, they have the time - you don't. They get to be useful, and you can focus on the big issues. Everybody wins.
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
When I worked at a major U.S. university, we used software called DeepFreeze from http://www.faronics.com/ that did exactly what you think it would do - caused a machine to be "frozen" (meaning no changes could be made) and if anything bad DID happen, a reboot made everything go back to normal. There are administrative options where you can freeze and unfreeze machines remotely (for patch installation, etc), you can "unfreeze" certain parts of the filesystem so files and whatnot can be saved, etc. Might be worth looking in to.
It's pretty handy and not too costly. Also, for our implementation it was great that it was a software solution and not a hardware one, as we didn't want to have to go out and physically touch each of our machines (spread across remote campuses and computer labs, and numbered into the thousands).
-chmod
What the hell are with the silly posts? Use a live CD? Does everyone here use Win98 now? Haven't they heard of filesystem permissions which have been in Linux (and other Unix/Posix style systems) for years?
Then we get to here. You must be using one brain dead distro if you have to worry the adduser script will set the home directory's permission to allow everyone write access.
However, it does seem silly that my distro defaults to allowing everyone read access. I change that. Use a different directory if you want to share...
...and if you are really paraniod, set the /home partiton to noexec. Maybe even change the permissions so the user(s) can't write anywhere, not even their home. Perhaps leave the cache, but if they don't need to save files, it may be easier to just create one guest account and only allow it to write to cache and bookmarks. That way they can't even mess up the settings. I would think the old people would prefer sharing bookmarks. Especially if they are learning about the internet. Assuming they're not bookmarking anything they would be embarrassed about. I would also run a dns caching program (dnsmasq) to speed things up and save your ISP's resources.
You obviously don't own a Wii. When in the browser, press that little "+" button on the Wiimote. Text size increases. Yeah, that was difficult. Same thing with the News function on the Wii. For basic viewing of uncomplicated web pages, it works great. Pages like CNN, BBC, Google, and so forth load up fine. If the newest Macromedia Flash (version 7, I think) is required, you're screwed, but otherwise the Wii browser should work well.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Isn't this exactly what webtv or msnt or whatever it is now called was made for? http://www.msntv.com/pc/
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Most novices need a bulletproof car that can take them to supermarket, theatre, or to the beach without the hassle of driving. Unfortunately, there is no such thing. You must learn how to drive, not an easy thing to learn. Or take public transportation...
The creator of SWFObject, along with two other developers, "teamed up to combine our knowledge and skills and to evolve our current libraries into one new and improved solution: the SWFFix library" - an open source library "with the goal to create a next generation JavaScript library for embedding Flash content."
http://www.swffix.org/
It's in development right now (with an alpha available).
My company developed the Groovix Public Access/Kiosk environment and it will do everything you need.
u ct_info&cPath=1&products_id=17
http://groovix.com/solutions_public_access.html
Just download the Groovix Public Access environment demo disk and boot it. You can install it to hard drive for faster boot up if necessary, and customize it yourself if you're a linux geek. We can customize it for you starting at $99.
http://groovix.com/store/index.php?main_page=prod
Open Source is Common Sense: http://groovix.com/
- Resetting the clock every 15 minutes so it's always almost medicine time? - Defaulting the browser's homepage to the local obituary page? Or maybe the death clock? - Slowly decreasing the volume level throughout the day?
Try it out, www.slax.org
It is simple, flexible, amazing, no need to save anything at all after some customization. Can run from CD, USB, even can be copied to RAM and run from there, very, very fast. I'm using it everywhere
You can use a product like DeepFreeze in combination with some good security policies to basically only allow browsing. Also, with DeepFreeze if they do anything screw up the machine they just have to reboot and it will come back up the way it was initially configured.
Cy
What about the substandard plugin support for Linux browsers compared to OS X browsers? Yeah, yeah... I know there are work arounds and work-almost-alikes, but who wants to maintain that? After all, in this case, the computer is acting like an information appliance. I don't want to re-engine my blender just to get it to work the way I want. I buy the one that *fits* my needs. Same goes here.
Give them a Wii with the internet channel (opera browser). Tain't gonna break, and I'm pretty sure if it did, someone would be responsible for fixing it other than you.
You have two problems. Though I can see other posters will have better options for you to choose from, you have two fundamental issues to work through;
1) The internet and the machines need to be accessible, understandable and usable for what your clients needs are.
2) You need to be able to manage, fix, and protect the machines easily.
I can tell, because I have "been there" that submitter has reached his or her frustration limit with this project. This will be caused by a combination of the two things above. As sad as it is, as people get older they learn slower (in general) and find new things harder to do. They simply will not learn to not damage the machines fast enough. You could have an army of helpers sitting beside them the whole time they use these computers, and you will still be repairing, re-imaging and losing people's data on a regular basis.
Once you separate the two issues and work on them by themselves, you can solve this problem. If you mix the two in your needs you will have a harder time finding a solution that works.
In my opinion, this is a solution just screaming to be solved by Macs. (I am a Windows guy.) But I see Linux can probably do the job too.
I would lay out the two categories above in a list of needs, something like this:
Users need:
- big screen font type
- simplicity to get in, do what they want, and get out unsupervised
- ability to save and retain data in some way (again, on their own)
- not to much customization, don't give them options that are not relevant to their tasks
- but allow users who want more advanced stuff (Office suite of some kind) access
- all the basics; sound, video playback on the web, flash, shockwave, view PDFs, etc. (do not skimp on this or you will find the advanced users get unhappy quickly)
You need:
- to protect the machines so "reworking" them is rare
- to make reworking easy to do
- to make your quality time tutoring count, and not make you too frustrated
- which in turn implies; instructions, uber-simplicity, etc. to let the users who can be self directed, be self directed.
And, unless this is some sort of sentence (mandated community service) don't burn yourself out doing this, it is good to help people, but do not underestimate the time it takes to recover after a particularly aggravating or frustrating time with an octogenarian. It takes extreme patience and tolerance to do what you are doing, NEVER forget that. If you feel like you need a break, take it!
I would suggest the Nintendo Wii, its provides internet and email but, not is a way that you would get to two mixed up. It also has zoom and the other features your looking for.
Firefox on a Knoppix disk, especially if you want to customize the image. You can set Firefox as the window manager, set X to auto login, any mess ups are fixed by a reboot. The hard part would be building that single custom image. Just use 19 or 21" monitors at 800x600. My grandparents use Firefox on Windows, and Granny likes it. Grandpa just plays card games. On that note you can make the default home page links to JAVA/Flash card games.
The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
Turn off computer after they are done.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I disagree.
Used imaginatively, the computer can break down the physical isolation of the elderly and disabled. Help them to read, to write, to speak their mind freely. Don't deny them the benefits of e-mail, instant messaging and chat.
Don't deny them a printer. Encourage them to personalize their small - institutionalized -space with letters, photographs, graphics of every kind. Let them fill scrapbooks, albums.
There is so much out there that they would enjoy.
My grandmother loved the sentimental artwork of the Victorians, Coolidge's poker-playing dogs.
If they are lucky, there will be - one - Reading Radio station programmed to their needs and tastes. On the Internet, there may be dozens, hundreds.
Don't ignore the mental and physical challenge of online games and puzzles.
I set up a few systems for a similar purpose... very simple boxes using old thin client terminals from eBay that run at about 15-20 watts, but any system running Windows XP will do. As it turns out, you can get a regular XP installation to use the Hibernate Once Resume Many (HORM) functionality from XP Embedded. (I can't find the link offhand to the instructions I found, but it was on Google somewhere)
Essentially the Enhanced Write Filter (EWF) in HORM allows you to set up the machine so it's ready to use (web browser window open full-screen, font preferences set, etc.) and then hibernate it, resuming to the exact same state from that point onward. When HORM is enabled, Windows will not delete the hibernation file after booting, and any changes made to the disk are cached in RAM (or to a temporary partition) instead.
The user could then change all their settings, accidentally install spyware, viruses, or AOL, even delete half the files in the Windows folder... and when you cycle the power switch, it will start right back up to your previous hibernation state as though nothing had happened. If you need to make maintenance updates later on (windows patches, etc.) there is functionality as an administrator to commit any file system changes you have made to disk, then re-hibernate to a new state.
I never thought the 1-button mouse would be pointed out as an advantage! :S
If the problem is the user hosing up the system or the potential for viruses, then you need a product like Centurion Guard DriveShield or Faronic's http://www.faronics.com/ Deep Freeze.
Both basically allow full access to the system but simply delete all changes after a restart.
Most schools, colleges, and public libraries use a product like DriveShield or Deep Freeze to keep their computers running.
Another possible option is WinXP with the Microsoft Shared User Computing Toolkit. A little harder to setup but free.
I feel more like I do right now than I did a while ago.
would be to force them to use only telnet and lynx. tell them it's web 2.0 (so they can feel like they're hip to the latest technology). they'll lose interest pretty quickly, i think.
not only is time travel possible, it's irrelevant.
Set up a server with roaming profiles. Set up a desktop exactly the way you want it to be. Use Ghost to save that image and copy it to other desktops.
If someone screws up their own user experience, blow away their profile. If someone screws up a desktop, blow away the desktop and re-Ghost. All problems are fixed in 15 minutes or less; no-one's bookmarks are lost (unless deserved); and you don't have to lock down anything.
You'll never out-idiot them. Just plan for a quick exit from their idiocy.
If simplicity is what you want, then it does not get much simpler than The Off By One Browser. It's graphical, and perfect for simply browsing sites. What it lacks in things like Javascript, shockwave flash, Java, etc., it more than makes up for with its speed and simplicity. You'll never ever get a pop-up, and I have yet to see any way to get hacked with this simple browser.
Faronics Deep Freeze will allow users complete admin rights from which they can download whatever virii, trojans or other malware they want, experiment to their heart's content with any kind of software or configuration, delete whatever they want. Then, when the system is inevitably fouled up, all they (or you) have to do is push the reset button, and the system reverts to its "frozen" image. A buddy of mine ran a cyber cafe using Deep Freeze. Everybody had admin access to the machines. Needless to say, the young male demographic that such a place attracts had its share of folks bent on malevolence. All he had to do was push reset. Worked every time.
I spent a few hours thinking about how to set my mom up like this then realized building a non-screw-up-able system was the easy part. The hard part would be preventing her from giving her name/address/SSN/DOB to anyone who asked. My mom has absolutely no scamdar.
I've seen a couple of studies that show elderly people are very likely to fall for confidence scams. It's as if the part of the brain that questions the legitimacy of suggested business dealings atrophies with age. People who would have been wary at 30-40 will sign over blank check to a stranger at 70-80.
While the internet can give elderly people a window to the world, the information flows both ways. They may sign up for the trial membership on some "quilting" website for $1.99 which rolls into the uncancellable $49.99/month fee. An "intro class" can do some good but people who are living in a retirement/assisted living environment are there for a reason (or several reasons). If the reason is dementia or Alzheimer's, good luck getting the warnings to stick.
I wouldn't recommend dropping nursing home residents on the internet unsupervised any more than I'd recommend letting them wander around [insert notorious crime-ridden urban area] without chaperons.
Using a live CD or other means to prevent malware is great, but these people will want to return to the same websites, and a volatile browser session does not support that well. So make sure you set up a homepage on Yahoo! or Google with their favorites. Maybe someone can suggest a good homepage that would be quite suitable.
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
Well, if you could wait a few decades, I will probably be available there locally and have a lot of free time to help out.
Wil Langford - opinionated bastard - Linux rules
It's called a book. They are familiar with the interface as well.
If one buys all new machines that might be true, used or refurbs would be less, probably.
You also have to remember that just saving a couple hours a week in in upgrades, rebuilds, virus/worm/trojan cleaning and such, which is definitely possible, can pay for the difference in less than a year...
However, if you have a lot of extra FREE manhours to dedicate to computer set-up and maintenance, $400 Wal-Mart specials might be your best bet. Perhaps volunteers that can come in once a week to keep things running?
It's a trade-off, as it is with most things, where one has to balance initial cost with ongoing cost. It doesn't take all that long for ongoing costs to overwhelm initial cost.
Start small, choose wisely. Don't just take the word of a bunch of strangers.
We are good for ideas, but you need to look at a bigger long-term picture than is usually provided by a forum like this to make a good decision for your needs.
--
Tomas
Perhaps you mean... Iceweasel?
Peace sells, but who's buying?
Use the Opera browser. Most old folks know how to use a remote.
I recommend this removable keyboard cover which provides larger, easier to read key caps on a standard keyboard. Colour coding distinguishes character keys from other keys and that helps to build confidence:
R 593132&rid=63&cid=7
http://www.tts-group.co.uk/Product.aspx?cref=TTSP
A trackball mouse is easier to use than a conventional mouse. A trackball mouse can be used two-handed, so the mouse pointer is less likely to be moved accidentally while clicking. Plus a trackball doesn't fall off the table. I found the Kensington Optical Trackball is ideal. It has a nice symmetrical shape, and it has no rollers so it doesn't need cleaning:
http://us.kensington.com/html/4771.html
Seems to me the OLPC would work quite well and is a cheap solution. Maybe I am off the mark however.
Clever or not, I got nothing...
Use Windows 9x and and instead of explorer, set shell=firefox.exe
30% off web hosting. Coupon code "SLASHDOT".
I been using a simple, free tool that creates a customizable "Live Kiosk CD" that runs a Firefox browser. That's all it does, just Firefox, no desktop, etc. It's really easy to customize the screen resolution, address bar shortcut links, yes or no Java, and a few other things.
The home page is at http://www.kioskcd.com/
I'm not affiliated with the project, just a happy customer.
regards, michael.
If it's JUST no frills browsing, set up a linux system. In the rc.d, set up an S99browser to start X and run firefox (w/ no login) or edit /etc/pam.d/gdk (or whichever X login your distro uses and change the auth required pam_unit to pam_permit to disable passwords. Then change fstab to mount read only.
If you want them to be able to bookmark and so on, perhaps have a login (set for no password required) with firefox automatically started in xinitrc. Make all but /home read only. If something in their home directory goes wrong, a simple script should be able to save their bookmarks, copy the .mozilla and .firefox directories over with a clean version, then copy bookmarks back in.
To those who complain about a /. Linux bias, perhaps it's because Linux is flexible enough to support a non-standard setup for a special applications and is user-friendly enough to let the admins answer the novice confusing questions in advance instead of popping up a bazillion badly worded dialog boxes.
My 87-yr old maternal unit is very happy with the simplicity of Web TV. Granted she has a PhD, but really, you'd be hard pressed to recognize it.
It rarely messes up, she can't accidentally screw it up and she absolutely loves the email.
While I like the idea of a Linux kiosk, what might be easiest, as I'm betting all the computers there already have XP on them, is that they could be set to kiosk mode in XP, with only a browser available... nothing else, you can make them essential as locked down as needed, so that the user has to hit the power button to reboot... At the company I work at, we end up setting these up every year for public use for a conference, and they work ok... Depending on how locked down you make them, you will still have the occasional complaint, but they work pretty well. Set automatic updates, and the machines should mostly take care of themselves, if there is a problem, power off and back on :)
For the record, this is pretty doable with Windows if you understand Policies and Limited User levels. You can basically give them a Windows box locked down to the point where all they can do is run a few apps and auto-install updates, no installing anything. This solves 95% of the problems you're likely to experience. The disadvantage is that your apps aren't getting updated, but that's a disadvantage of most of the solutions presented. Tools like DeepFreeze and Clean Slate can help alleviate these problems, though they're a little pricey.
As others have pointed out here, Windows has a few advantages when it comes to playing multimedia files and printing, two things your users will almost certainly want to do. Frankly, the printer will probably cause you more hassles than the PC in this scenario.
Microsoft have released a program called Windows Steadystate which is a replacement of the "Microsoft Shared Computer Toolkit". It is software designed by Microsoft that hooks into the normal windows security to lock down any PC. It is specifically designed for Kiosk environments. Link Here: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamil y/sharedaccess/default.mspx
The great thing about this piece of software is that it prevents changes to disk at logon level or at reboot level. Evdeployed this software in a public internet kiosk environment at work and it has been running very smoothly.
I wonder if this will get modded down for being Pro-Microsoft?
Opera security advisories @ SECUNIA (0% unpatched):
http://secunia.com/product/10615/?task=advisories
FireFox security advisories @ SECUNIA (43% unpatched):
http://secunia.com/product/12434/
IE 7 security advisories @ SECUNIA (56% unpatched):
http://secunia.com/product/12366/
(Given that information, as far as regards security problems in the code internally, Opera is ahead of the game by far in this capacity)
APK
P.S.=> "You can't disable javascript because so many websites stupidly depend on it." - by Jessta (666101) on Tuesday September 04, @12:12AM (#20459799) Easily solved: As far as scripting or even cookie tracking - Opera natively/built in already into its codebase without addons, can allow certain sites to run java/javascript, OR NOT, & the same for tracking cookies...
(Done on a site-by-site exceptions list basis that's easily added to OR removed from, via a GUI interface for it, accessible by right-clicks on the webpage concerned)...
Not absolutely sure if FireFox does this type of thing or not, @ least, by itself without addons (which Opera does natively)...
However I do know FF has a "per source" addon in NoScript, an
Java/javascript: Good stuff for INTRANETS, not so good online (even adbanners have seen it misused the past 2-4 years now online, quite a few times)... it's a double-edged sword, by all means!
However, still: FF has a lot more unpatched security vulnerabilities in the first place vs. Opera with none... apk
I own a wii, but I'm not an idiot. Nintendo has a nice system that isn't very useful for anything but games... which is exactly what I have it for (really it's my daughter's, but it's my house and I play boxing on it quite a bit).
Zooming in on text sucks. Are you typing this from your wii? Probably not. even though that couch is so comfy, you need a higher resolution to have a decent amount of information in front of your god damn eyeballs.
Why don't you sit ten feet from your computer screen andenlarge your text to where you can read it. Is that nicer?
Get a god damn 720p TV for 600 bucks and get a nice old pc for 300 and get a nice new wireless keyboard and mouse. That's what I'm using to type right now. It's more expensive than a wii, but you get the TV.
Nobody is attacking nintendo, so you can resist your urge to chime in and defend it. How odd that people do that! I remember last time I said something benign about an iphone I got modded a troll. We truly do live in a corporate culture. To the point where corporations are devoutly worshiped. Nintendo is neat. I'm sure they will release another terrible game system eventually (soon, probably), because that's what Nintendo does usually. Sony is doing it today, and your savior will do it tomorrow. But the wii is a great system so long as you leave it to games.
Both machines are behind a router/NAT/firewall and both machines run their own firewalls. I am using no antivirus software.
Actually my mom is not even aware, that she works with to different products - Linux and Windows, and I suspect she does not know these two words either.
Let them use JavaScript, Flash, and whatever else their hearts desire. Just run it all in a virtual machine (e.g. VMWare) that revents to a saved snapshot each time the VM is "turned off". Easy, safe, and free-as-in-beer.
Your whole post is just babbling as well.
The OP's advice might result in a system that doesn't handle websites that can't downgrade, but that's far, far from a non-functional system.
The GP's contrary opinion WILL, however, result in a truly non-functional system. I trust you haven't kept up on any of the numerous security advisories that have constantly rolled out over the years, and STILL keep appearing. Try securityfocus for starters if you want to review the issues.
The GP might be a zealot, but you sir are an idiot.
Why not just set up a simply configured Windows system with browsers and apps configured the way you want, and then install an app like DeepFreeze that freezes the setup. The next time they reboot, everything reverts back to its original frozen state. I believe that you can also control just what gets frozen meaning that if you install a second drive (or create a second partition) you can have that data not get frozen so other apps that write data can write to that drive. And for installing apps, just unfreeze, reboot, install, and re-freeze.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Evaluate the Nintendo Wii.
Seriously. No, really.
Its almost perfect actually.
Safe - check
Secure - check
Easy to use - check
Scalable text - check
Its only downsides are 1) is that its not HD/VGA/DVI capable, but if you hook it do a decent large TV screen its bearable; especially for the elderly who don't have great vision and wouldn't have their monitor set to 1280x1024 and beyond anyway.
2) While the Wii remote isn't bad for surfing, link clicking, etc. It isn't great for manually entering URLs or filling out forms. If the Wii supported a Keyboard you'd be set.
And keyboard support looks like its coming. Apparently attaching a USB keyboard already works in the Wii shop channel as of the latest update; but not in the Internet channel. But the rumour is that Nintendo is releasing an official keyboard at some point. There are also rumours that the gamecube keyboard works (if you can find one).
As a bonus, the Wii sports is also proving fairly popular with seniors.
I don't know what the situation is with the other consoles, you might have luck there too. An Xbox 360, for example, I believe already has keyboard support, and support for HD resolutions. I don't know how friendly / easy to use it is... but it probably easily beats a full on PC.
This summer a number of my IT Interns created the Internet Cafe for the Senior Games (Olympics) held here in Louisville. They customized a Unbuntu distro so that ALL the users could do was logon to the internet and browse and turn the darned thing off. It was perfect. We did this on donated P-III machines. If you would like to contact me, our Student Technology Leadership Program (Beta club for geeks) would love to work with your local school district to get locally donated machines and use our solution at your site. You would have to have an internet drop in the room, or better a drop and a switch and router with a row of computers in the community room of the assisted living facility. For a local bunch of high school kids, it is a no-brainer. We could pen-pal with them, or IM for any tech support they would need. But they would need to be the bodies that carried in the computers and physically set them up. A local church Youth Group could do just as well. In a worst case scenario, we could prepare the machines, have them shipped to you and help with minimal tech support. You (or whomever the beneficiary would be) would need to pay for shipping in this scenario. For us, the main thing is having a computer based service project.. which we would love. My email is scott.horan@jefferson.kyschools.us