Slashdot Mirror
Programming Jobs Abroad For a US Citizen?
An anonymous reader writes "I am a American citizen with a masters in Computer Science from a 3rd tier college and 4 years of work experience under my belt. I would like to work somewhere abroad in Europe for a couple years before I get too settled in life but have no clue where to start. I only speak English but would love to learn a second language. What sort of opportunities are there for American citizens to work abroad? What countries offer the best opportunity to balance a challenging work environment with enough vacation to explore the rest of Europe in my free time? Any hassles I should know about?"
code writes you... ?
Which episode of South Park is this from?
that is the only way any foreigners will be able to stomach americans again.
Many foreigners come to the United States for the reasons you have listed here.
I was not aware US colleges had some sort of official tier. Who defines these tiers? What are the criteria?
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Your dollars aren't worth anything over here. We don't like you. Indians are cheaper and speak better English. Long vacations are a myth. Thanks to you bozos we have to work harder and longer to pay for oil.
Turn around the argument. Beyond fingerprinting at the airport, and the chance of having your gadgets and laptop confiscated, what opportunities are there?
Your government has made the world a less pleasant place for citizens of the rest of the world. While you're not personally responsible for this, the fact is there probably aren't as many opportunities as their once were.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
"I am a American citizen "
Are you sure you speak English?
I live in Canada, but I'm being sponsored to work in the US, so I will more than likely be working on the US side in the next month or 2.
However, if you wish to work in Canada or the UK, you can try these job boards.
http://www.jobshark.ca/caeng/index.cfm
http://www.jobserve.com/
Now as for balancing pleasure with business, gee, I could always make a joke about working in a country where the "siesta" is mandatory :P but the truth is, I don't know. All I know is that in Canada, you could always challenge yourself to learn French. For me, being bilingual it obviously works well. But the truth is, if you had to learn a new language, I would suspect the following languages would be beneficial: spanish, mandarin, japanese, russian, german.
I hear that Dell is hiring SW engineers and tech support folks.
Oh wait, you are probably overqualified for support, you speak English.
South-africa needs tech workers, and you get away with only speaking english.
Unlike the USA[1], most countries are *not* so gung-ho on free-trade and have much stricter rules about outsiders taking local jobs. You may have to do it under the table, such as getting a clerk or janitor position, but really do programming in practice.
[1] I don't think US citizens are so gung-ho on it either, rather it appears that lobbyists have had a large influence on policy.
Table-ized A.I.
I think that you will be delighted to find that many EU companies have adopted English as their work language. This is especially true in Switzerland and Germany. Of course the UK, Ireland and (I know it isn't in Europe) Australia are good picks, too. Germany or Switzerland would afford you the chance to pick up another language, which is a really wonderful experience (I studied Russian for years, worked in Germany so learned some German, and worked in Geneva so ended up with a little bit of French too -- it is life changing). You can find web sites with jobs listed, monster.de for example...but in the local language so you might need to bablefish the sites. Last but not least, US-based international companies are a great route to doing this (this is the path I took). Search for the HR pages on web sites of major international corporations and you are sure to find job listings around the world. Apply and be sure your cover letter expresses your excitement about overseas work. Best of luck! Rick.
They speak English in Australia and Sydney is a really cool city. Don't limit yourself to Europe.
What sort of opportunities are there for American citizens to work abroad?
None whatsoever, as a general rule. All countries (and EU) protect their labor market and do not allow foreigners to just come and work. And the USA does the same. Basically you will need a work visa which usually requires some sponsorship from a local company, and you need to allow some time (years?) for the paperwork to get through. Without such arrangements you will be in position of a Mexican who illegally crossed the border.
IMO, the only possibility to quickly move out and start working is in gaining employment with a US company that has offices in other countries. This way you can be hired here and then transferred abroad with no questions asked.
Yeah, they all speak with weird accents. Why can't they just speak english and accept american currency!!
What are some examples of third-tier schools? And honestly, does it even matter with a Computer Science degree?
... except my primary concern was learning the language, and then finding work. Specifically, I wanted to live in Japan, so I ended up going to a language school full time there for a year and a half, and then after that finding work. If your primary concern is just living and working abroad, and language secondary, I would think that would be possible in many places in Europe. If language is important to you though, I would strongly recommend that you first study the language in the country you've chosen, and then find work. This is because 1. It's much easier to study when you don't have to work at the same time. 2. It will make you a more attractive hire. 3. Since you'll have put significant effort into learning the language (as opposed to just doing it in your free time while working), it will become a skill that will stay with you and that you can draw upon in the future.
So that didn't really answer the questions you were asking, but I thought it was something that was important to address....
Try India, jobs are plenty and salaries are very high. And with the low cost of living, you can live like a king.
slashdot rocks
Maybe you can make money working on free and open source software.
Oh... wait.
I am currently working in Stavanger, Norway at the Joint Warfare Center. There are several great pluses about working for NATO and in Norway. In general, the pay is pretty good. NATO civilian positions are tax free, and you get alot of benefits for your kids and whatnot. Working in Norway is great as well. I think there are some regulations that state you cannot work more than 7.5 hours per day. Thus you get a ton of free time. Especially if you are allowed to flex your hours. Lastly, there is something like 200,000 open jobs in Norway. There are a bunch of oil companies in Stavanger, and they are desperately seeking people like you. The only difficult part is getting a work permit.
In Europe, you can work everywhere, but the income/purchase ratio is very different in different countries. Probably Germany and Austria are the best options in West part of EU.
Opportunities are most in the recently joined countries, like Poland, Slovakia and Czech or even newer - Romania and Bulgaria. Due to lower expenses, many companies prefer to go in these countries instead of China or India and the demand of specialists is high.
I submit to you that with your programming skills, you could gain valuable experience imparting knowledge and working in the developing world. One thing I'd like to advise you on, is to have a very open mind in case you decide to go to Africa. Africa is not what CNN, ABC, CBS and FOX show the American public. It's much more lively and socially better than USA in some cases.
I was in for a shock when on my very first visit to Africa, I met a country (Uganda) with pretty modest infrastructure compared to what I had in mind. I had to get used to the food though. I met Americans who decided years ago to call Africa home.
There are tonnes of dollars from the American government going to Africa through agencies like CARE, USAID, Americares, UNICEFUSA and many others.
So be open and brave man and consider Africa.
France just loves Americans who only speak English. Maybe you can find something there.
And get some of that sweet in-sourced work from the US.
None whatsoever, as a general rule. All countries (and EU) protect their labor market and do not allow foreigners to just come and work.
You do need to get a job offer and get the paperwork done ahead of time, but there are no significant problems for high-tech workers to get work permits in European nations: the process is generally quick and pretty painless.
I also call bullshit on this one. Lots of asian countries, especially singapore, says they lack talent and literally roll out the red carpet for you to come in and work. You Americans are treated like the Gods of whatever you do. As for language, pick a country that has english as an official language (I know singapore does).
All the best.
I used to work for Philips Semiconductors, now NXP Semiconductors. They're based in Eindhoven, Netherlands, but have operations in many locations worldwide.
I used to work in San Jose, CA. There were multiple opportunities to find 6 month to 1 year stints in locations in Europe. The opportunities and locations would depend on where the particular Business Unit had development offices. There would occasionally be expat positions available.
Other large multinational companies that I would investigate for the kind of opportunities you are looking for might be Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Infineon, Sharp, etc.
Something like Geekcorp would be a great place to look for opportunities.
Well as a person who now lives and works abroad I can say it something that everyone should do.
It has many benefits. Least of which is cash.
First off and most importantly it opens your eyes to the greater culture of the planet. Being someone from the "new" world this is even more important. As North America suffers from a homoginised culture. Less so Canada.
Secondly the experience both for work and personal. Work wise your experience in different cultures working can only help you back at home. Secondly the experience you gain personally will enhance your life and alter your life priorities.
Now for the tough part the how too.
First off do your research in an area you wish to live. What is the cost of living etc. Secondly start to look at the job market in the region. Google will be your friend here.
For example: Rent in Sydney Aus in the city runs you about $400-$600au a week. That's about $350-$500us. Which for most american's is gigantic cash.
At this time several markets are suffering from a downturn in IT. So be careful. This is a particularily sensitive time for employment. Many regions of the world have laws that prefer citizens over foreign people. Others require lengthy and costly Visa and certification procedures. Also some countries foreign workers are not governed by labor laws no matter what they do. So you may not have the protections the locals do. So again this is a point of research.
If you are going to a non English speaking country. Make sure you have someone translate you CV/resume before you go. And then again when you get there. Make sure they understand the subject matter in the CV/resume. Otherwise you may end up looking like a professional gopher cage cleaner.
Some countries have issues with American's. So be careful. For example a job in Egypt for an American could have personal safety issues. ( I picked a country and random. )
Moving countries is hard work but well worth it. I have been doing it for almost 20 years. So don't be afraid. If your mind is set on it, you can do it.
I could ramble on for hours. But I'll leave it at this.
If you want to work in Europe, speaking English with an opportunity to learn another language, your options are the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden & Norway & Nokia (oops, I mean Finland)
All of these countries have high tech sectors that their own populations can't sustain & import foreign workers (from all over the place) who use English as a working lingua fraca.
All the countries I listed above allow working Holiday visas for 1-2 years for many western countries (not sure about the US, sorry) for workers under the age of 31.
If you can't get such a visa, consider the same countries, but apply for jobs online, making it clear that you need a visa / sponsorship / whatever.
Good luck!
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
[1] I don't think US citizens are so gung-ho on it either, rather it appears that lobbyists have had a large influence on policy.
Those lobbyists are part of why there's a disconnect between Washington and the public. That's why it's finally being challenged, but only after 30+ years of junk.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
@ kdawson,
The Netherlands is a great place to work as a foreigner, everyone speaks english, and there are some special constructions setup for what are called "Knowledge Migrants", which allow IT and highly technical skilled workers, among others, emigrate into and obtain work status more easily through a sponsorship program from a company seeking such skilled workers.
Plus, depending on the terms of the sponsoring company, you may be able to apply for the 30% tax ruling, reducing your overall income tax by 30% for the first 10 years in NL.
Additionally, there's the Dutch-American Friendship agreement, which if you are willing to be a free-lance contractor, enables you to easily setup a company with minimal foreign capital investment, allowing you to work as a self-employed person.
Check out http://www.expatica.com/
Get a good immigration lawyer to help you out. It'll cost a little, but will go far to prevent you from getting in any sort of legal bind, which you don't want when you are a guest in that country.
Cheers & Good luck
Crypto
If you're American, better stay out of Europe, or any country for that matter... That is, unless you people elect that Greek god dude in November.
McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
" What sort of opportunities are there for American citizens to work abroad?"
Lots of opportunities with this outfit:
[URL]http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp[/URL]
"Any hassles I should know about?"
Nothing we can't train you for son.
On a more serious note, if you are under 29 there is a class of working VISA available in many countries that allows you to work there for up to 12 months with few restrictions.
I hear Guantonamo is nice this time of year
Yeah, Europe isn't so hot on immigration. You should get a job with a large American company that does business in Europe then transfer over to that branch. Any gigantic company should do. Just ask the HR department if they have a process for doing it and if it's a realistic option. You are looking for "of course" and "we do it all the time, in fact it's encouraged." If you get anything less it's probably going to be a huge hassle.
I'd give you some options, but I don't want to direct you to any industry in particular. More important than the where is the what IMO. At least that's a professional perspective. Others will give different opinions and you need to pick what works for you.
There are very strong English language masters programs available in engineering schools and universities in Sweden and Finland (also this one), and presumably the rest of Scandinavia as well.
You haven't lived till you've biked over a frozen lake or read a book in perfect daylight at 2AM. Some schools have industries right next to campus to tap the student labor force and nearly all the universities have ample jobs for masters students right there on campus. This is also the perfect choice to allow you to maximize your vacation opportunities - Cheap student rates and lengthy school breaks. A university is also the ideal environment in which to study the language, both in a formal setting and with the students that are much more used to dealing with foreigners on a daily basis than the rest of the population.
That said, there's plenty of sysadmin jobs abroad under the employ of the US government, if you're willing to give up on coding at work for a while. See usajobs.gov and careers.state.gov. Simplifies dealing with visas and such.
In my opinion the Czech Rep is worth considering; there is a huge demand for experienced programmers there. From my experience the college or university you come from matters little, so does the fact that you only speak English (at least in the larger foreign companies' local subsidiaries: Oracle, Sun, IBM, Microsoft, Google... to name just a few). Being a post-communist country which still has some way to go before catching up, the wages there remain way below US or North/Western European standards, but the costs of living are equally lower and Prague is a plain fabulous city to stay in :)
Without knowing too much details about the alternatives it seems to me that Sweden would fit your bill nicely for the following reasons:
* Large IT-sector which regularly accepts English-speaking foreign labor in their workforce with no demands for knowing any Swedish.
* English is the second language and is spoken more or less fluently among most of the population (especially the younger one), more so than in Germany, France or Finland.
* Safe, generally non-violent place with all kinds of security nets if things would go wrong, like (almost) free hospitals.
* 25 days of vacation per year guaranteed by law. Most people have 4 weeks of continuous vacation during the summer which is a great time to travel around the rest of Europe.
Only thing speaking against Sweden as far as I can see is that it might not be exotic enough for your taste since it both culturally and geographically is quite close to your neighbor in north, Canada.
I've been wondering exactly the same thing as yourself, and here are some of the conclusions I've come to.
First of all, language. I would guess that the other employees at almost any job you would want would speak English, so that's not a problem. However, it would be nice to speak with the locals, too. Here's a measure of English ability. The summary is that the best English speaking countries are UK, Ireland, Holland, Denmark, and Sweden. I'll add Germany to the list because I've known several people who've gone there and said they had no problems. English is ok in tourist destinations anywhere. For example, you don't need to know French to live in Paris, but the rest of France would be tough. Of course, being an American, learning Spanish would be very helpful, so you might want to put Spain on your list, just to force yourself to improve, but English/non-Spanish speakers I know said Spain was difficult.
Second, actually getting a job can be difficult. I have been looking around to see if I could maybe get a job somewhere like Sweden (where most of my ancestors were from), but it looks like the Northern European countries have very strict labor laws for other Europeans, and so it's even harder for a non-European to get a job and a visa. It's much easier for them to come here, than us to go there, unfortunately, even though a skilled worker can make more here. However, as I understand, most countries are quite open to educational opportunities. There are probably quite a few programs that are affiliated with your school. For example, studying abroad and postdocs are probably the most common. You might consider Fulbright scholarships. Here's a list of contacts that someone at my school told me about:
***
BUNAC (British Universities North American Club) up to 6 months work visa in the UK, and varying times for work in Australia, New Zealand, and Ireland http://www.bunac.com/ Note that the 4 month Irish work visa and 6 month UK work visa can be combined for 10 months split between the two countries.
CIEE (Center for International Educational Exchange) a number of countries and length of work visa varies: http://www.ciee.org/
Alliance Abroad has a number of internship, teaching and volunteer opportunities abroad http://www.allianceabroad.com/
Spend a Year In New Zealand http://www.immigration.govt.nz/ or go to http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/workingholiday/workopportunities/ for working holiday information.
For summer up to year long technical placements IAESTE is the best (and I believe the only) group that arranges such opportunities for students or graduating seniors. Go to http://www.iaeste.org/
***
As far as getting a job goes, think about who you might work for. If it's a multinational company (the most likely people to hire you), ask yourself why they'd hire you to work in a more expensive country, with more labor restrictions, when they can hire a local with probably roughly equivalent skills. Some of the things I've been reading say that this route can be done, but to do it, you'd join a multinational company here in the US, and after a couple years request a transfer. One obvious possibility, as an American, is to go as an employee of the Government (e.g. the Foreign Service).
You might also consider broadening your scope a bit to include other English speaking countries -- you'd probably do ok in most Commonwealth countries (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa)... I've seen lots of ads about working in New Zealand.
In summary.... it's really hard, unless you can do it via academia
Most people in Belgium, and especially in Brussels, speak English quite well. And due to the language issues with the 2 Belgians communities (Walloon/French and Flemish), they end up speaking English together if one doesn't speak the other's language. A lot of nationalities are working in Brussels, we have a lot of agencies from the European Union and a lot of US companies have a local office in Brussels. Google for "expat brussels" will give you a lot of links for specialised websites. And don't forget beers and chocolate! ;-)
If you're under 30 Australia has a fascinating visa for a year with work privileges. While you may not consider that to meet your requirements for learning a "foreign language", you've clearly not heard proper Australian spoken mate if you think it's just the King's English.
No worries!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Given your experience and educational background, companies like Infosys, Wipro and hundreds of other IT companies in Bangalore/Hyderabad would be easy to get into. Moreover, since you're a US citizen, you may not face problems in getting a work visa in Europe. And most of these big IT services companies send engineers on long-term assignments to US, Europe. Having said that, if Europe is your priority, get it in black-and-white at the time of joining.
As an aside, if I were you, I would love to have some India experience under my belt--from a long term career growth perspective. Sooner or later, you will end up partnering with Bangalore folks for your IT projects. Many US companies are realizing that and getting mid/senior management to spend time in India (for software operations) and China (for hardware/manufacturing operations) to know the culture, processes, etc.
Someone please tell me why this isn't in "ask slashdot" so I can filter it out?
Move to Oslo, Norway. I spent a month there last year. Great place.
According to my German wife, there is a fair amount of opportunity in Germany (she cited Berlin specifically). Well, that was a couple years ago. But, it's still worth checking out.
Also, apparently you can get by fairly well with English only in the larger cities. So, that should help you acclimate.
You also might want to consider other English speaking countries such as New Zealand. Wikipedia actually has a list of countries that have English as an official language. So, you might want to check that out.
As a last note, I'd shy away from the UK as the violence there is getting bad enough that there are reports of people leaving because of it. Not to mention all the Orwellian BS.
Hope that helps. Good luck.
Anyway, whichever country you choose, I wish you a great time!
:-).
ps. for anyone that goes to Holland for a longer time, you might want to read The Undutchables to prevent any culture shock
Google is still hiring across the world, and has about 30 offices around Europe. Also, IT-workers are in very high demand in many European countries, thus your employer will vouch for you to get a visa/work permit.
More on Google jobs:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/
Try Opera Software. They are headquartered in Norway, with offices in Sweden, Poland, and Czech Republic. So you might have choices and an opportunity to move around.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Probably the best way is to start a multinational corporation in the U.S. and open offices in one or more European countries. That way you get the freedom to travel and work abroad whenever you want.
Hi, If you are not looking into Western Europe only, my warmest suggestion is that you look for the job abroad with US Government. There are so many projects that come through USAID and are trying to better people's lives around developing European countries. Advantages of such move are: You are making decent money according to US and great money according to local standards, that will enable you to bridge over period where you will learn and get used to local customs, learn some language, and be able to look for more work - either with local or with international companies. There are lots of IT related projects and almost anything (from bettering legislature and economics to the local administration development projects) does have an IT component in itself and needs an IT expert. You would be working in an American-style environment yet living abroad. Once you get more first-hand information, you can look for the local jobs - all of those places are in development and in chronic need for IT people. All the best!
.Play.Open.Minded.
You are more than welcome in any of these countries, but if a secondary goal is to learn a second language then you might be better off in Germany, France or Spain. Either of these have good tech industries, but the local polulation does not speak English as well as they do in the countries you mention. As a result you are forced to pick up the local language.
I'm Dutch myself and I've worked for several US companies who have subsidiaries in The Netherlands. One of the major complaints from US collegues was that they didn't get a chance to practice Dutch. As soon as they opened their mouth the Dutch switched to English, regardless if it was at work with other tech workers or in a local grocery shop.
To make a long story short, select a country where English isn't the second language. It will be a challenge, but you'll learn a second language real fast.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
4 years experience is what you need to get a skills certification from the Australian Computer Society, which should qualify you for an independent skilled migration visa (subclass 175). This is basically a green card for australia, you're a permanent resident with essentially no restrictions and you don't need employment in advance.
It will take 12-18 months to go through the process though. If you're looking to move long term this is probably a realistic timeframe for visa applications in many countries. I'm personally doing this, and since every small error in the paperwork is probably a 2-3 month delay I hired an immigration attorney to represent me (I found migration agents seemed to be amateurish so I ended up finding an attorney with an immigration specialization license). Costs about $3k for the attorney, and $3k for the various fees for the assessment, visa app, and all the supporting documentation.
It's also a pretty foreigner-friendly environment so the transition when moving is very easy to handle.
If you had actually read that website you are shamelessly plugging here, you would know that an American should think twice, thrice, a hundred times before considering a move to the Netherlands.
Every single American living there hates the country with a passion and is counting the days until they can leave again.
It's easy to practice Dutch. Just ride your bicycle into the countryside and get lost. I guarantee that the person of whom you ask directions will not speak English. Or French. Or German. Not only that, although they will understand your Dutch, you won't be able to understand the response because it will be in some non-standard dialect. :)
If you were to take a contract in any major Canadian city, you'd gain the experience of moving to another country and make connections with people of all nationalities that could give you far better insight and direction than a slashdot posting, for example. It would be a great stepping stone towards anything more adventurous, and enough of an adventure in itself to decide how adventurous your next step should be. Get your feet wet before diving in head first.
If you're serious about Europe, you should probably look into Toronto, Ottawa, or Halifax. If you start leaning towards Asia, Vancouver is the ticket.
Who knows, you might just want to stay :)
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
It doesn't matter if you graduated from one a good school or a mediocre school if that's history assuming you gained your experience after you got your Masters degree. If you got your Master's while / after those 4 years of experience, it's not really going to help you in getting a new job (except maybe in Canada where you get a better chance of immigrating but still won't help your job).
[Yes I have an MS and 5.5 years of experience and I can tell you companies don't care about my MS now]
There are enormous benefits in my estimation - good coffee, great bread. Strange, beautiful incomprehensible women. Actual architecture. No strip malls. Not needing to own a car.
A buddy who went outside the US to an unnamed country (not in Europe) found that he was getting much lower pay for a standard Java developer job there. Plus, he noticed that places he was interviewing at, people were coming in to work rather formally dressed. He also noticed that most people would be very friendly, but wouldn't really socialize after work, and things 'died down' very quickly during the week. Of course, that is just one data point, but basically points to checking out all aspects of 'life', outside of just your day-to-day job. One of the easier transitions to make will be to join a company with offices in the US and elsewhere, and then transfer within that company to another country. Once grounded, you can choose to stay, return, or move. If you are willing to chuck up your job, you will probably have the most luck if you can actually go to the country you want to be in and meet face-to-face with companies. That, of course, is rather difficult, unless you have a support network. And paperwork. Bon Voyage! There is so much you can learn by immersing yourself in a different culture!
I took a two week business trip to Canberra, AUS last summer (um, Northern Hemisphere summer). Might I add that it was a BEAUTIFUL place! I got to speak to a few local nationals who work in the IT sector and to peruse the local newspaper. Apparently at the time, there was a negative unemployment rate in the IT sector and the pay reflected it. So you might consider the Dewn Unda, Mate. And just think? You can go skiing in July! ;)
Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
Although perhaps not as 'sexy' as some of the other countries, I'd suggest looking at the UK. They are the only country in Europe, to the best of my knowledge, that has a fairly easy-to-obtain permit-free work visa. Basically, if you have a college degree and a decent salary, you may qualify for a Highly Skilled Migrant visa (now called Tier 1/General). With this visa, you don't require a work permit or a sponsoring company... basically, you're given a renewable three year visa that allows you to work anywhere you want without any employment hassles. I'm actually moving over to London on this program next week, as a software engineer. Personally, I'd hate to be at the mercy of a sponsoring company and have to worry about being deported due to layoffs or whatever. I can't recommend this program enough.
The best part of this visa, arguably, is that there's a path to citizenship after about 5-6 years. Once you have a British visa (you don't have to give up your US one, either), you can work and live anywhere in the EU, without a permit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)
definitely not sexy. Although there is Elizabeth Hurley . . .
Well, being in a kind of leading position in a small German company (i.e. I'm a team leader and do the technical part in our job interviews) I can tell you that we do need competent technical people, especially programmers and IT managers.
More than half of the people in our company are foreigners mostly because we don't have enough competent programmers in Germany. So your chances of finding a job here are pretty good, I guess.
If you'd like to go to Germany you might want to have a look at Berlin or Munich (where I live). Munich may be a bit more expensive to live but it's a very nice place to live and you can go to France, Switzerland, Austria, Italy and Czech Republic by car or train in a matter of a few hours. Munich is also a technology center, a lot of high tech companies (not only IT but also biotech) are located here.
At least at work the language barrier shouldn't be a big issue, most Germans understand english and some can even speak it ;-) Seriously, in our company we now have two people who can't speak german at all or very badly so we speak english with them. And our company is just about 16 people or so. I've also been in another company where we had someone who didn't speak english, it wasn't a problem there either.
There are a lot of language schools that will help you learn German if you're interested, of course. Sometimes the company you work at even pays the course or at least part of it, just ask your potential employer.
As some other poster already wrote, a good entry would be joining a US based company that has a branch in Germany or looking into job sites like Monster or StepStone (just replace the ".com" with ".de" for their german sites). Some companies even post job offers on these sites in english language. Even if the offer is in german a lot of technical terms will be english and Babelfish might help you as well.
Since virtually all companies now allow (or even demand) online job applications the distance is no problem here. And if you're interesting for the company it will do a first interview by phone with you before both sides agree on whether to fly over for a face-to-face interview.
For legal informations I recommend you have a look at the German Embassy in the US website.
No matter where you go, I hope you have fun ! Working in another country with another language (no matter which) will be something that will make you a different person :-)
You should start by defining a country and then examine your proficiency in that country's language...
"Tongue only slightly in cheek, but drawing parallels between the United States and Germany under Wilhelm or Hitler is hilarious"
And why is it hilarious?
This must be a joke post by /.
Europe isn't just a big homogeneous cultural block like America is... Plus, if you actually had potential, you would just get your shit together and find the job you want in the country that appeals to you the most.
Greetings from Berlin, third tier!
First of all, Europe used to love America.
I grew up in the 90s. People over here had "America" stickers on their skateboards, wore baseball caps from US teams, had 49ers jackets, listened to Michael Jackson and every kid wanted to grow up to be like Chuck Norris. People actually bought US cars, and most sports gear was from US brands.
A lot of people spent their holidays in the US, and many planned to move there after finishing school. Having friends in the US automatically made you the cool kid.
Second, Europe doesn't hate America now; certainly not as much as the Americans seem to hate the French.
We obviously don't love the United States as much as we used to, but most Europeans are perfectly capable of distinguishing between a government and the people. We realize that a lot of Americans are unhappy with what their government is doing. We realize that you suffer more from your government's actions than we do (it doesn't exactly hurt us if your government takes away your freedoms). Our American Style Pizza is still called American Style Pizza and was never renamed to Freedom Pizza or something like this.
You are very welcome over here. There's no animosity.
As for the article's original question, programmers are always sought after in Europe. I know a few Americans how have moved over here (ironically, the opposite of what I thought would happen even a decade ago), and they seem to be happy with their choice (although sadly, they could not come with us when we went on holidays in Cuba - what the hell is up with that???).
India is always looking for qualified programmers. The nice thing is, you will probably be working for an American company.
Israel is now the country with the second largest amount of new startup companies after the US.
Tel-Aviv is the 4th largest city in the world in terms of new startups (after US cities).
Here you have access to grate technology, everyone speaks English, and you have easy access to Europe.
i recommend GERMANY! I live here... Nice country for people like us. but prefer south germany or north.. or may be Berlin.. these are the best places
I guess I can shed some light on the situation in Switzerland.
There are four spoken languages here: German, Italian, French and Romanic. Typically, reasonably large companies in Switzerland have offices in at least two language areas, typically German and French or German and Italian. While the Swiss have their own version of German (which Germans don't understand when they first hear it), they will usually use the official version when talking to non-Swiss. So you can easily learn German, French and Italian in Switzerland.
All working-age Swiss speak English. There are some older people who may never have learned English, but you can easily get by even if you only know English.
I have a few American friends who live and work in Switzerland (Google has an office here, so there's tons of American Google programmers over here :-), and they seem to love it, so I guess I would recommend Switzerland. Also, we're always hiring good programmers :-)
When looking for programming jobs, I would start out in Zurich; there's a lot of software companies in Zurich.
I think admin.ch should have information on how to apply for jobs and such.
If you want to go into Europe proper, it's a little harder. I got into France in 2001, but it was during the tech-bubble, and my French company was desperate for programmers. The most difficult part is finding a company that is willing to give you a contract. It's an absolute requirement for starting the paperwork, and it's a lot of hassle for the company, as gov'ts make it difficult to hire foreigners, protectionism being as it is. Once you have the contract, things get easier, as the authorities are lenient with tech people.
The easiest way to get a contract is to start talking to any friends in Europe to see if they know anyone who's hiring.
Good luck!
Buses stop at a bus station
Trains stop at a train station
On my desk there's a workstation....
You can go everywhere in "old" europe, working conditions, salaries and free time are comparable to the US. I think it'll be a little less in salary, but much more free time.
I'm from germany, and for an IT guy, this is a very good place to start. We have lots of international companies here, that do their busines entirely in english. If you don't want to, you don't even have to learn german. (which is, by the way, not the worst language to learn for a tech guy, as it is strongly rule based and not so much vocabulary based)
But if I'ld have to choose freely, I'ld of course go to the Netherlands, where you can legally buy and smoke pot. Their language is like a mix of english and german and seemingly easy to learn, but it is not spoken by too many people around the globe. Anyway, Netherlands is a really multi cultural country, and almost everybody speaks English.
In Switzerland you'll probably get the best salary, and if you like to go into the financial sector, try Luxembourg, where you propably get a way with English only too. Luxembourg's a country the size of a small city in the US, which has more banks than people living there.
As for the hassle with a permit and stuff: As a tech-worker there should be no problem whatsoever to get a time-limited working permit (lets say for a year or so). And if you are allowed to work in one country in the EU you're free to work everywhere in the EU (which is everywhere in Europe except Switzerland).
Nevertheless, do it. You'll like it very much.
Bullocks. As a Dutch guy, may I remind you English is mandatory on Dutch high schools, and, depending on level on education, one or two more languages (in 9/10 cases, French and/or German).
DO NOT COME! I repeat: DO NOT COME TO WORK IN EU!
Salaries absolutely suck. If you remember to account for high taxation.
Here in Finland, the roof for PHP coder is around 3,000euros a month, with taxes of around 25% and living expenses near UK levels. Bottomline is, you are worse off here than in the UK.
In UK you can get upto 5,000-5,000euros a month, afaik lower taxes, but higher living costs. You will end up more cash in hand than in Finland. Plus from UK it's easier to travel around Europe.
Germany, very good location to go all around. Salaries i'm not sure, around 3,500-4,000euros i assume. But in Germany they are a bit technologically backwards, many of their IT solutions simply SUCK and are simply IDIOTIC. However, some exceptions exist there aswell. Many Germans refuse to speak English for some reason, aswell their language is a bit messy to learn, but you'll do fine with "Ich Spreche Kein Deutsch. English perhaps?"
France ... Generally speaking, they are hard to work with, arrogant, very very arrogant people. You are an ahole if you cannot turn an ordinary PC into a super computer ranking in top 100, and you are ahole if you manage very high quality real time raytracing on 1600x1200 resolution on 3years old computer. Either way, generally, they do what they can to make you feel bad and rip you off, and benefit from you. Not all French people are like that, but a lot of them are. I and my dad have both had the tough luck to have to work with quite many french people, and very few of them have been what you'd consider "nice" or "cool" people.
That's my 2cents and my personal experience SO take it with a grain of salt :)
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
Ahh.. not having heard of someone before an election is, in fact, reason to make some assumptions about the individual's qualifications.
Are you telling me, that if someone had never heard of Linus Torvalds, then you wouldn't doubt that "individual's qualifications" to make authoritative comments regarding Linux?
Here is what they would sound like:
Munich, Germany, is beautiful, is extremely central and has the best airport voted 4 times in a row. I was there for a year and it was ideal to visit everywhere in Europe on both charter and cheap flights. The primary language in big companies is English and most people speak it. German isn't that difficult to learn for just a simple conversation (but gets very difficult later). The biggest thing I suppose is the 30 days contractual holiday, usually flexitime AND 10 "Feiertage" which are public holidays. In all, you're hardly working but earning a lot :p
You can't go wrong with the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, or Norway. Many people in those countries speak quite good English (in many cases better than the average native speaker in England and North America), and by law they usually offer generous dollops of PTO.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Now it is. But when I was riding my bicycle in the countryside, which was admittedly about thirty years ago, there were still quite a few older people who did not speak foreign languages or had long since forgotten what they had learned. And of course those are the ones one will chance to ask directions. Using the same technique I managed to find probably the only two people in Luxembourg who did not speak French.
Usually the cry is that we take American jobs. Now you want to come here and work and take our jobs? Which is it?
You cannot have it both ways.
Hi, I have experiences with Central European job market and I want to recommend you Slovakia or Czech republic. But consider only Bratislava or Prague. There are a lot job opportunities at the moment in Bratislava and Prague. You will be surprised how many jobs are there opened. Living standard it there very high. Forget about other Central European countries like Germany, Poland and Austria because the situation there isn't so good. You can look for you new job here: http://www.profesia.sk/en/ and here http://www.jobs.cz/en/index.html Hope this post helped you.
Take a look at http://www.joinmicrosofteurope.com, there are some very interesting openings with Microsoft in Ireland.
I'm a South African software developer currently in Rotterdam, Netherlands ( what a lot of people call Holland ). The country is great, the people are amazing, and i barely ever have to speak Dutch, even though i try most of the time. There are a lot of americans here and there is also so much to do, and so many public facilities. Added to that, The Netherlands is rated 2nd or 3rd in the world for internet access, as all access is uncapped, with a minimum speed of 8mb/s ( ADSL is often at 20mb/s, but the cable package i have is 8 ). I would really recommend this country since it is easy for an american to come here, their second language is english and almost everyone knows how to speak it, so getting around is not a problem. You would also be very close to Germany, Belgium, UK and France, so it's easy to visit other places. The software industry here is also booming ( i am a game developer at a small game studio ), and there are lots of opportunities for foreigners under the Knowledge Migrant Programme. Again, i really recommend it. And although i could probably organise you a job in South Africa, it is a place to avoid, especially if you appreciate your life, just in case you thought it was an option :)
If your workmate is from Vancouver, he's probably a Canadian.
What about the right to work in Europe? Most European countries are very flexible with US citizens, particularly since most have European ancestors. The most laid-back country is probably France - great food and standard 7 weeks vacation.
My corporate masters, a large multinational computer company generally identified by it's azure colour, has a lab in Ireland and is looking for people. If you're good, send in your CV. Even if you have visa problems, they're willing to help in that area. However, working in Ireland is closer to the US modes with long hours, etc. However all European countries have a minimum of 5 weeks vacation.
Don't go to Italy. The country needs only low skills talents, and the salary it's extremely low.
There is no salary difference between a bus driver and a software engineer.
Company pays a lot, burgers are huge, living with guns is exciting, your leader has a good sense of humor, I mean, so please do not eat the limited opportunity that is open to us!
Hello original submitter - I have no idea if you'll read this or not, since it's probably destined to be buried right at the bottom of your view, well below MANY pointless discussions about things completely offtopic.
The company I work for, in Germany, is currently looking for a programmer type working closely with me (also a programmer). The job is about 25% actual coding, 50% helping other programmers with our own specific API and 25% other stuff (including various kinds of planning meetings, lots of travel around Europe and occasional travel outside of Europe (Japan being the most common, but US from time to time also)).
We're looking for someone with good C# knowledge, since that's what our API is based around, however strong Java and web-based skills is also a very big plus for something else we'll be doing quite soon.
I've actually already passed on one slashdotter's resume (a guy from Chicago) to my boss, and we have NO problem looking outside of Germany (we're required to look within Germany first, but the response has been less than stellar so far, so once we've finished looking inside Germany, we'll open it up to anyone, anywhere). I myself also do not come from Europe originally, so I myself am pretty good evidence we'll hire from anywhere if we need to. English is the defacto standard language for business in our company since we're the European HQ of a large multi-national. German is good to learn for "day to day life" here, but it's definitely not required for work.
If you're interested, please send me an email - my slashdot username minus the last 3 characters at Google's mail provider.
(if the other slashdotter who I have already talked to about this job reads this - don't worry, we haven't forgotten you or thrown away your resume - you're still in the running as well)
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
I am a US citizen currently working in France. My company handled most of the immigration/paperwork side of things since they already have a French office. Even though they did a lot, I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to go work in France without a job lined up and a contract signed and a visa prepared. I know I wouldn't have been able to do it on my own. The paperwork to get just about anything done was truly insane. If for some reason you still want to try France, check out http://www.americansinfrance.net/DailyLife/FindingAJobInFrance.cfm
"enough vacation to explore the rest of Europe in my free time"
Not wishing to put a damper on things but there are currently 27 countries in the EU and more if you take a wider view of 'Europe'. Even at pretty generous allowance of, say 27 days holiday a year, to get to visit more than a token number of states for anything other than a flying visit is going to take you many years.
It always cracks me up when we get American tourists here who think they can 'do' Europe in a month. The seem to manage Italy, France, Germany and the UK, normally only stopping for a day or so in each big city.
It has been said that the difference between the British and the Americans is that the British think 100 miles is a long way and the Americans think 100 years is a long time. You may want to consider this...
I'm from Denmark and would highly recommend you to come and work here - for several reasons - but the most important is probably the one you mention about sparetime. In average we work about 200 days a year! - so you have plenty of time to visit europe ;-) The salary is good, and there's a lot of softwarejobs in Denmark, just to mention a few: Bang&Olufsen, Lego and Vestas.
Good luck out there!
The oil and offshore industry is booming these days, and everything onboard an oil rig and offshore supply vessels are controlled by software. Most software development happens in-house, and for me atleast, the challenges in this industry has been far more exciting than those in the IT industry. We get to write software that controls the motion of huge vessels, and that makes complex operations happen more safely. The language of the oil industry is English. We have people working here who don't know Norwegian, but you can't work here if you can't speak and write English reasonably well.
Oh, and everyone in Norway gets five weeks of paid vacation each year, and we work 37.5 hours a week. Overtime is paid. Salaries are high, but so is the cost of living.
Norway's economy is on fire, check out http://www.finn.no/finn/job/fulltime/result?JOB_CATEGORY/CATEGORY=5409&areaId=20061 Most of the ads are in Norwegian but the job titles are the same in the US, its just transliterated. Norway is desperate for qualified people right now, nobody can find decent employees, people with your qualifications start at about $100k a year. Maybe more depending on the city in Norway and the Company. Oslo is not the greatest city to live in, but the job market is really good and you can catch a flight to just about anywhere really easily. Stavanger is great city, its actually where I live. Its an oil town so there is lots of foreigners, however its small and its expensive to travel out of Norway from here.
There are increasing number of jobs offered for programmers in the Muslim world. If you are practicing Muslim professional, you can find work in Saudi Arabia, Emirates, Pakistan.
With a lot of additional pressure and hassle for Muslims here and most of all unsuitable educational environment for children, many of my Muslim colleagues moved either to their original country or to one of rich Arabic countries.
Advantages are: cheap Islamic madrasas for your children, access to Islamic education for adults, access to 'Ulama (Islamic theologians) to gain knowledge in many life situations, access to learning Arabic language and generally Islamic environment (Islamic dress, hearing Adhaan - call for prayer - on the streets).
Drawbacks: lack of higher education in many countries for grown up children. Many of the friends who left are planning to return back when their kids will reach college age.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
I haven't spent a lot of time in Luxembourg, just a couple days, but it was enough for me to realize that not everybody there speaks French. There are three official languages: French, German, and Luxembourgish. I was surprised at how "German" it is as I was expecting it to be mostly "French".
As far as the Netherlands goes, my wife is Dutch and I've spent a bit of time there. I spent a week or so at my wife's aunt and uncle's farm and almost without exception everybody I met spoke at least a little bit of English. Maybe not much, but more than the few words of Dutch I know.
I probably got along better with English in the Netherlands than I did in the countryside of northern Ireland, where some of the people may have being speaking English to us, but even my Irish and English friends with me couldn't understand them.
www.clarke.ca
Come to Slovakia, we love Americans to come here. We have a nice Hostel for you to stay in too.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
The other upside to New Zealand is that you'll only need a couple of weeks of vacation to see it all.
They'd be action packed weeks though. Rafting, caving, bungee jumping, jet boating. If doing something stupid is your thing the I couldn't recommend anywhere better than New Zealand.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
The UK. They are the only country in Europe, to the best of my knowledge, that has a fairly easy-to-obtain permit-free work visa
My work visa here for Germany required that I was sponsored by a company to get it, however I do NOT lose it if I stop working. If I stop working, and then don't have a new job by the time my visa expires, then I must leave - but my current one expires in 2010, so I could be unemployed for at least another year and a bit should I lose my job tomorrow - plenty of time to find a new job. On the negative side however, I do have to live and work within this one area of Germany - I can't go anywhere else in Germany, let alone another European country, without getting a new permit.
Plus, if you're being sponsored by a company, the chances of being made redundant in the foreseeable future are pretty low anyway.
Definitely not as open as the visa you describe for the UK, but I'd sooner drive a nail through my face than live in London (sorry to anyone that actually likes living in London!). Most of the rest of the UK is okay though, however it really is quite isolated from the rest of Europe, and if you're after the real "European feel" for life, you will NOT get it there.
My book about LSD and Self-Discovery
Also on facebook as: DroppingAcidDaleBewan
Stop telling Palin jokes.
It cracks me up that at least some French and Spanish people that I've met think North and South America are one continent, "America". The Spanish folk were all up in arms about racism and cultural elitism at the idea of North America being a continent separate from South America, until I explained it included everything down to the Isthmus of Panama, including Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, etc. And that it had to do with the location of tectonic plates. Then they quieted down.
I believe your biggest issue (except perhaps legal hoops to jump through) is the language.
One obvious choice would be UK or Ireland, where everybody speaks english already.
I live in Denmark, a small ( 6 million citizen) country with our own language. HOWEVER all north American exchange students I met on my graduate studies where impressed with the general level of English in Denmark. According to them it is a non-issue. I strongly suspect it will be the same in Sweden/Norway - at least in the urban areas.
I have also a big faith in the English skills of the Dutch, as I have traveled there multiple times and yet to meet any problems with not speaking the language.
Southern Europe (France, Italy, Span etc.) is a whole different situation, I was recently on week in Spain and was amazed by the lack of English. Almost nobody I meet outside the (IT-)conference spoke English in any usable degree. I have had the same trouble in Belgium (even in the capital) so I believe any French speaking countries might also be difficult.
I have no real idea of knowing how well the german-speaking countries speak English, as I am also fluent in German. I would believe that especially the German parts of Switzerland would be fine too.
To sum up, I believe any smaller western/north-western European country would be suitable. Watch out for the bigger ones as they are probably solely focused on their own language.
President Bush went to Yale.
A good choice is Spain, is in Europe and you can learn a language very useful in the States too.
The Spaniards are by far more friendly than the British and French people.
The largest Google engineering office outside of USA is in Zürich. I work in this department http://www.google.ch/support/jobs/bin/topic.py?loc_id=1058&dep_id=1115, where we are responsible for the operation of a number of Google services. Such a job involves both system administration and engineering, and having good skills in both areas is the best chance to get hired. We currently need more people, so if you have the skills, there is a good chance of getting hired. We have equivalent jobs in a number of other places including Dublin and USA.
For getting a work permit in Switzerland, I know three things that can help improving your chances. Being an EU citizen, having a university degree, and having a job offer at hand. (Notice that Switzerland is not a member of EU, but has agreements with a number of long time EU members. Citizenship in a country that recently became member of EU is not that much help). I have not heard of any cases where a person satisfying all three conditions could not get a permit.
The only language you need to speak in order to get the job is English. The local language spoken in Zürich is a tough dialect of German, and it might not be the best choice for a second language. But if you learn high German, then you can get by (actually you can get by fairly well even if you only speak English).
Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
London is great. There is a good market for IT people and you can get to almost anywhere in Europe within 2 hours, which makes it an ideal base for long weekend holidays.
You can now speak English in France at work, especially in IT industry. It's not anymore like 10-15 years ago. Most young French knows enough English to handle basic conversation, and would be more than happy to kickstart you in French by providing translations whenever you need it. As somebody stated before, there is no freedom-cola in France, so expect almost everybody to be friendly and helpful with Americans. France is very active in IT. The industrial framework is very different than the US, where large corporations holds most of the market. In France there is a lot of small companies developing software. The working environment is very different when you are in an almost family size company.
The only drawback is the painful working visa process, which is much more complex and troublesome than in most other developed countries. More informations here http://www.consulfrance-washington.org/spip.php?article500
I just thought I'd chip in about working in Japan and learning Japanese. If you have a degree, come from an English speaking country and are under 40 years old, there's a good chance you can apply for the JET programme.
http://www.jetprogramme.org/
Essentially it's an English teaching position. Having done it for 1 year, I can recommend it. Salary is about $30K US, no taxes. Housing is often highly subsidized. The work is challenging at times, but rewarding. However there is usually a *lot* of free time for studying (and a considerable amount of encouragement to study Japanese at work). If you do a good job you can stay for up to 5 years.
The job is usually 8am to 4pm with very little over time expected (at least compared to the IT world ;-) ) I find that on average I have a couple of hours a day to work on Japanese. And since I get to go home so early every day I've been able to get a lot of coding done on my own.
Yes, northern Europe is a good idea, with the netherland a good idea.
Mix of culture, language, near France, Germany, Belgium, England.
Now cost of living there is quite high there...
Ireland is nice too, you have call centers where they'd be glad to have you.
France, i would only suggest Sophia-antipolis near nices, climate is like california, and there are many companies in hightech where the language is English.
Nb: in many places in Europe they want stable employees, staying only 2 years will frighten them, you should tell them you want to live your life there.
Try to find a job where they request a lot of travel, you'll have less competition. And a chance to visit Europe on company money.
The professional service jobs would be better for that than programmer.
When choosing a position, check taxes and cost of living, very different around Europe.
Salary you should expect is up to 40k euros per year I think
Working outside of England or Ireland will bring you the most experience.
Have fun
I worked in the Middle East for a couple of years. It is a perfect base to explore Europe, Africa and Asia. Many companies (Banks, Hospitals, Oil and Gas, etc.) offer/entice their expatriate employees lots of paid vacation time with free airline tickets (oftentimes for you and your spouse and kids)... The pay is good, there are no taxes, plus most employers give their expatriates free housing accommodations. Bottom line, you have more money to spend for those European vacations.
In my case it was 1 month vacation for every 6 months of work. To be honest, work sucked but vacations were great. Europe, Africa, and East Asia are just hours away by plane. In addition, countries in the Middle East also have interesting cultures worth exploring.
You are more than welcome in any of these countries, but if a secondary goal is to learn a second language then you might be better off in Germany, France or Spain.
I was trying my best to answer the question as asked. That said whoever.
You are damn right. I learnt more German in six weeks in Germany than I did Dutch in a year in Amsterdam. Germans generally speak less English, so you're forced to speak their language.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Let me back this up. I lived in the Netherlands for ~2 years. I think in that time, only two (Dutch, not tourists) people I met didn't speak at least passable English (and often better than many native speakers).
I went all of the countryside too - including riding through some fairly secluded areas. Road workers, junkie beggars, farmers, kids, police, transport personnel, goddamn everyone speaks English.
They seem as a race to make a point of looking surprised and offended if you ask if they speak English.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I took my family on a two-week tour of Europe in 2002 (England, France, Spain and Italy), and we were treated exceptionally well everywhere we went. Possibly it's because we tried hard to speak the native language (though in the end, almost everyone's English was better than our Franspanitalian), and tried hard to know and respect local custom (which was kind of the whole point of the trip, actaully).
I suspect European hostility to individual Americans is oversold; you're nicer than you realize. Hating the American government is more rational. Heck, it's a tradition on this side of the ocean as well! :-)
http://www.exoweb.net/en/jobs
Look for a US based company with foreign clients. That way you may not require a working visa for most countries. And language is not a problem, as most IT workers will speak English regardless of the country they are working in.
I used to work for a firm as described above, and I worked in several European countries, the Middle East, New Zealand, and Central America. It was a blast, I'd do it again. Oh yeah, I speak English, with only a little proficiency in Spanish.
Your mind moves quicker than a nun's first curry. - A. Rimmer
I can also suggest you to come to Spain.
I really consider pretty interesting all the countries listed in the comments above: Netherlands, Sweden, Germany... in fact they have much higher salaries than our salaries here, so it is always a good option.
However, if you are interested in learning a new language, Spain is probably one of the best places: not too many people can speak English fluently, so it will "force" you to make an extra effort in learning Spanish. On the other hand, people here will try to understand you no matter what level of Spanish you can speak, so it is not a problem for anyone usually.
Worried about the beginning? Well, working at an IT company means that people will be able to understand a bit more English than the mean, as it is usually the only way of "being on top of the wave". :-)
The next positive factor about Spanish is that it is currently the second most spoken language in the US, and some States are considering making it an official language, if they haven't done it yet...
About hollidays, we have around 22-30 days for hollidays, and some of them are perfect to get long weekends that you can get to visit other countries in Europe, for example. ...and I don't want you to miss parties: people usually knows how to party here, so I'm sure you will enjoy this point as well :-)
Now it is up to you to choose where to come. I welcome your will of coming to Europe anywhere you want: it will surely be a wonderful and valuable experience, like the one I had some years ago in the US ;-)
I'm hiring, in Oslo, Norway and LinkÃping, Sweden: http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/opening.dml?id=67 Other departments in my company is hiring in Norway, Sweden, Czech republic, Poland, Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, India and the US: http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/index-open.dml Feel free to apply to anything that looks interesting. If we decide to hire you, we'll arrange all the formalities. (c:
There's a couple of hundred thousand Americans working there, and new vacancies being created every week.
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
The economy is in a downturn. Jobs in the construction sector are disappearing, along with construction supply-chain, and the knock-on effects in shops and services that were dependent on a lot of foreign construction workers with money.
At the same time, over 10,000 IT jobs are unfillable right now because there are no skilled workers to do the jobs.
On top of that, Irish students are not going into the IT fields, so Ireland needs workers to immigrate to fill this gap.
The pay is not going to make you rich if you're just starting out, but you'll be able to live on it & put some away.
Holiday time is a minimum of 22-days plus national and bank holidays in most instances. (Scheduled well, this can be 5-6 weeks total holidays.)
The social services are oft maligned, but health care isn't nearly as bad as many make it out to be, and most IT related companies will provide access to group pricing on supplementary private health insurance such as VHI, Quinn, or Hibernian Health.
The pension scheme here isn't bad at all, and most employers will have a private pension scheme to supplement the state pension scheme.
Also, if you move back to the U.S., you can either collect whatever state pension you get from Ireland while you're in the U.S., or you can transfer your pension funds from here into the U.S. Social Security program.
I've been here about 2 years, and I'm now making approximately 5 time the wages I was in the U.S. when I left, plus I have the benefits of a company car, VHI health insurance, a pension scheme, and a really excellent company credit union at my disposal, and discounted membership in the a really good health club.
The taxes are high. 22% on the first EUR 20,000 or so, and 42% on the rest. "The rest" includes paying taxes on benefits such as health insurance, company car etc.. they are considered part of your income because you benefit from them just as if you'd had the extra money to spend on them. (This is called Benefit In Kind, or BIK)
Ireland is a great jumping-off point for seeing Europe. (Being the base for one of the most successful budget airlines in the world: Ryanair, we have genuinely cheap flights..and Ryanair is very well funded and isn't likely to go out of business anytime soon.) We can get to most places on the continent or in England for EUR 10 each way if we schedule it right & wait for special deals.
The weather, and the VERY short days in winter can get to some people. We only get about 5 hours of daylight mid-winter. (and only about 5 hours of night mid-summer.) and.. we get a LOT of rain. BUT.. mid-winter we don't tend to see snow, and the temperature seldom gets as low as freezing. (One does need to dress warmly though.. because the air here is very humid even mid-winter, and the damp in the air will wick the heat right out of you if you're not dressed well enough.
One warning: If you move here, you might like the people and the lifestyle so much that you won't want to leave.
I find the anti-US stuff quite funny.
For instance, I've seen left wing people (both in Scandinavia and in English media) arguing that the Georgian trouble are the faults of USA. So Russia:
It is obvious -- the responsibility lies heavily on the USA! Either they started the whole thing -- or it was something they did in the treatment of the old Soviet union decades ago...
When someone falls and breaks their toe in Europe, Bush is probably blamed! :-)
That said, the Bush administration is IMHO disgusting... but can hardly compare with Putin's restarting the old Russian/Soviet empire building.
I do realize that for people in the USA, it isn't so funny. You can always think that closer to Russia, it might soon not be so funny either...
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
I've spent 4 years in Toulouse working for an american company in the sat business.
Even though I knew my basic french I learned through alliance Francaise and became fluent.
I think any one should spend some considerable time abroad.
You can start by looking at the embassies of your target region and check if they offer some sort of programs.
They might also be able to connect you.
I would NOT recommend going to a country which has English as their main language. Going to France or Germany you will be forced to learn a very valuable additional language besides just collecting work experience.
"And the Finnish language is bloody difficult to learn." (a little more than 4 mins in).
Even the Finns admit it ...
... for what that's worth
Run and catch, run and catch, the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch.
Money can't buy you love, but it can buy you a college degree.
you had me at #!
As an American living and working in England (in London for more than a year), recommend you look for jobs in Holland or Sweden. Two reasons to avoid England (and the so called UK) -
1. The most obnoxious people you could find on earth, the crappiest customer service, rude, arrogant, snobbish... and last but least bloody liars (you will know this when you have to call a plumber, taxi driver or anything for that fact).
2. They were used to exploiting the rest of the world for a long time and now they just exploit their own people.
3. Drunk, cheap & dirty (the whole bloody country reaks of urine and vommit), London is a bloody 3rd world city.
is not really part of Europe. Some of the reasons I say this are subjective and cultural, but there are two serious practical differences: The currency, and immigration policy. Europe is far easier to enter as a visitor, unless you're white and (relatively) wealthy.
you had me at #!
>I haven't spent a lot of time in Luxembourg, just a couple days, but it was enough for me to realize that not everybody there speaks French. There are three official languages: French, German, and Luxembourgish. I was surprised at how "German" it is as I was expecting it to be mostly "French".
There is a generation who was in school during the German occupation and so didn't get any French lessons for 6 years or so.
I'd sooner drive a nail through my face than live in London (sorry to anyone that actually likes living in London!). Most of the rest of the UK is okay though, however it really is quite isolated from the rest of Europe, and if you're after the real "European feel" for life, you will NOT get it there.
I'm someone who really loves London, but would also like to live somewhere with the "European feel". It's so hard to decide which I want more :-S.
(And I'd sooner drive a nail through my face than live anywhere in the UK except London. London seems to have it's own culture, different from the rest of the UK.)
In a previous discussion on the same topic, someone said London/UK has enough of a European feel to it for an American; in the same way that I probably won't notice much difference between San Francisco and New York (or something).
Furthermore, some folks can read, and in exceptional cases even write something resembling English (grate technology? apparently we're home to some advanced cheese know-how).
Don't tell your from the US. Europeans hate the US, just like people from Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, Canada, Mexico and all the rest of the World.
Pretend your from Canada. When asked any in-depth-questions about your homeland pretend to have amnesia.
You could get a high-paid job in an intergovernmental organization. You'll have to learn a bit french first though.
EUMETSAT
I went to Mumbai, India for a week once, and I didn't like it. It was dirty and poverty-stricken, with really bad traffic. To say something positive, the people were very nice.
Working in Norway you get 5 weeks of paid vacation pluss good and free healthcare. Working at Opera Software you would have coworkers from over 40 nationalities, "free" lunch, free beer every friday, and the chance to shape how the web will be in the future.
Read more here, and feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
--
If you consdier the German speaking world you will want a Master's. I am sure people will argue about this here, but in that part of Europe the Bachelor's concept is relatively new, and most people you will be competing against have a Diplom. A Diplom is a Master's in the United States and if you want to maximize your job opportunites you will want one. They take academic titles much more seriously in Europe than the US, and it isn't unusual for people to be called by their title and not their name. Also don't be surprised if they ask for things like Leaving Reports from previous jobs, your transcripts from school, and of course your C.V.
For the C.V. it is standard practice to require information that is illegal to ask about in the United States. It will have your date of birth, photograph, gender and what not. For an example try the Europass CV.
I suggest you pick a country, and start taking formal or informal language and cultural courses. I chose German because I felt it offered the best tech opportunites in Europe, and access to all or part of three countries. Try and plan a semester abroad or a summer in the country you think will suit you. Honestly, nothing will motivate you to slog it through the hard part of moving somewhere new, and get you past the depressing fact that you can't communicate. A friend of mine in Vienna said, "I spent almost two years not being funny." Which for her was a big deal because her humor is a big part of who she is.
People have a completely different lifestyle and expectations in Europe, when compared to the US. I really suggest you prepare yourself mentally for a severe lifestyle change. For example the first word we learned in German for a place to live was apartment, not house. They don't buy as much, they eat at home a lot more, you probably won't own a car, food is going to be different, and in general if you haven't been to europe for longer than two weeks you are going to encounter culture shock.
Last but not least you are going to want to set up a home base in the country you are going to live in. Try and hoarde cash, you want to save about 4-5 thousand Euros. You are going to want to live in Europe while looking for a job there. Find a flat mate that will let you live there cheap and start applying around. Newspapers are still a big source of job offers so just scour their websites. Once you get there and are looking for a job you should really get out and try to meet people in your field.
As an American seriously considering Europe, there is only one choice I would make, Ireland. Their economy is booming and there are tons of tech jobs. I visited over the summer (Dublin and suburbs) and had a great time, really enjoyed it. The weather isn't fantastic, but a flight to Spain is a little over $100...
Oh! Oh, I know the answer to this one.
Because it's fucking ludicrous, you twat.
And why is it fucking ludicrous?
Wait, I'm forgetting something here... Oh, I got it: I forgot to insult you, you twat.
Many Swiss companies are international, and use English internally. This includes the big banks (UBS, Credit Suisse), the pharma industry (Roche, Novartis), and many others. If a company decides they want you, they will take care of the work permit.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
You should take a look at the UK's Tier 1 (General) program. It's a points based system. Denmark has something similar.
for the love of god, just go to elance, rentacoder, or whatever lance site you are comfortable with, and start working.
it really doesnt matter where you are from, where do you actually live, or who do you work for and where they live. go live in nepal and work for someone who is in brazil if you wish.
Read radical news here
In the west, as you say - even the drunks and beggars speak english. If you head east though then it gets a bit different, less people speak english and the attitudes become a little less laid back. When I lived there I went out with a girl from that area (fairly close to Enschede) and if I hadn't taken the time to learn Dutch then I couldn't have conversed with half of here family.
Here's a tip.
If you need to select English - from an electronic guide or web site, for example - you'll find it's usually represented by a strange flag that has a star-shaped pattern on it. It's still red, white and blue, but not stripy like you'll be used to. I'm not sure why they insist on using a non-standard flag like that, but I hope this helps.
Also, you'll probably find that their spelling is appalling.
Max.
Germany is a great place if you've got experience with embedded programming. Munich is a fantastic city, and many of these firms are located in or near Munich. You will want to learn German, but it's cosmopolitan enough that you can survive without it, once you learn how things work there. Unfortunately, it is a bit hard to get a VISA, as their skilled migrant program requires quite a good salary offer in order to satisfy the requirements. Visit the place sometime (in warmer weather) to get a feel for it, even if it isn't your first stop in Europe. The girls are also quite attractive (a good amount of of external influence) in Germany, and both friendships and relationships are not as complicated as many other cultures. :-)
But you are right, it was only in the sixties that good English education became obligatory at all levels.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Almost any other place in the world have higher taxes than the US
Only if you use Bush/Neocon/GOP math. That is, if you only consider taxes a negative and do not weigh the value of what is received in return, then the US looks like a good deal.
If you develop a major illness, you will not necessarily think that it is such a good deal.
(If you would prefer not to have millions of people killed in your name, you may also not consider it such a good deal, but that's a separate conversation.)
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
The submitter hasn't figured out that outside of academia, nobody really cares where you went to school only what you can actually do.
Perhaps that's the way it should be, but that's not been my experience. Rightly or wrongly, my MS degree from a tier-1.5 (my estimate) school has gotten me some advantage, even years later.
Furthermore, I believe that people in the business world care more about this than people in academia, who seem much more concentrated on "what have you done?".
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
sweden.se (heh, with a Flickr photoset, even)
Regarding work permits:
This fact sheet describes, in condensed form, Swedish regulations and routines for obtaining entry visas, residence and work permits, and residence permits when establishing a company.
I feel it's an honour (we traditionally adhere to Commonwealth English) when a foreigner takes interest in my country.
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
Wow. Great thought. I lived abroad for ten years, and just finished a seven month stint in Budapest. I take it that you are single and your experience is with coding. Here is the scoop: 1) Go somewhere where there are fewer other Americans. Avoid England, France, Spain and Germany. You'll have more fun being the odd American in town. 2) The places where you will be most warmly received are the former Communist countries of Central Europe: Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, etc. It was the Americans that saved them from the Russians 20 years ago, not the Europeans, and they remember that. 3) There are jobs aplenty available in these countries. For an English-speaking American programmer, these are usually jobs managing local talent. You will NOT find these jobs in the US - you need to go there and look for them. Employers want to see that you are already in the country and happy being there, rather than hiring you in the US, expensively shipping you to another country and potentially having you quit soon thereafter. Oh, and these jobs pay quite well, particularly compared to local costs of living. 4) In reference to #1, and this is hard to make yourself do, but strongly recommended - try to find a position that places you in a smaller town, not the capital. It's better to be the odd American in Brno than one of thousand in Prague; you'll have an easier time making friends and it will force you to learn the language, since there will be fewer English speakers around. My first six months in the Czech Republic and my first six months in Taiwan were both in small towns, and they remain my favorite countries that I have lived in (I've lived in eight now). 5) Finally, I just returned from Budapest this week. I believe that Crytek has positions available in their Budapest office. My Hungarian tutor was teaching their staff a couple of times a week (and they were doing a terrible job of learning Hungarian).
Second, Europe doesn't hate America now; certainly not as much as the Americans seem to hate the French.
I wouldn't take that too seriously. Half of America couldn't find France on a map of Europe, nor tell you what language the French speak. Our leaders told us the French were bad, so we ate a few fewer French fries for a while, and stopped showing Pepe Le Pew reruns.
That's been over for a few years now--I doubt anyone recalls it. We hate foreigners on principle of course, but I think everyone's concentrated on the Mexicans at the moment. (Taco Bell sales are down dramatically...)
"Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
I asked a friend of my wife, both of whom are Spanish, if he would be interested in working with me on a personal project (RoR) and he contributed some code. The interesting thing was that I work as a Sys Admin and he asked me if I had considered a position as a programmer. I told him I wasn't ready to leave my current position and he told me that he could have a good paying job for me in Spain the day after I decide I want it. So, the outlook in Spain must not be quite as bad as some are saying. The biz he works for develops only in Java, and I've already told him that I know very little about Java and that didn't seem to matter much to him.
My only complaints about Spain would be that everyone lives in flats and the traffic around big cities is a bit crazy. Being from the U.S., I'm a bit spoiled with a big yard with trees to hang out in and, though my wife's flat (now mine also I guess) is fantastic with awesome tile work and such, I miss having a yard when I'm there.
The Spanish seem very friendly to Americans in general. The more you can learn their language, the more they will accept you of course. Very friendly people and their culture is amazing. Barcelona is awesome to say the least.
Hope that helps.
Well.... you are right, this is not coherent.
As I wrote: The Georgians seem to claim they were provoked by shelling. And the Russians had good tank battalions just waiting on the other side of the border, motivated with lies about mass murder. (Sure, both sides are probably also lying, as is traditional in a war.)
The really fun part is that the US really needs Russia, e.g. to keep an united front in the UN and against Iran. The idea that Bush would start a cold war right now is too ridiculous (especially since the claimed win in internal politics is not rational either).
I haven't seen anyone blaming USA here which can't be filed under conspiracy theories. Russia is the only one which earned anything here -- screwing over Georgia. (Also, Putin might want NATO as an external enemy; the traditional way to stop internal criticism.)
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Is location. If you are located where the jobs are, you are more likely to be considered. I spent the last 2 years trying to get information and interviews for positions in the UK and GB, only to find that they wanted someone 'local' rather than cover an additional expense. I have also found that there are companies in the US that have offices abroad, and if you 'prove your worth' to the companies, you can use them to get sent over on projects and / or jobs. That is currently what I have done, and I am writing this from the U.K. having just landed today. Permits and Visa's are EXTREMELY important, and also should be part of your consideration. Again, if you are already living where you wish to work, this issue is alleviated. However, that catch is that you have to have a sponsor company to get a work visa. Also, once in the 'foreign' land, learn and follow the customs and be POLITE regardless. It seems to really help your situation if people don't already have a reason to dislike you because you are overly polite.
You keep going until you die..."Me".
I have one word for you...
DUBAI!
I'm living in Hong Kong at the moment and if you've got decent skills it's not hard to find work in Greater China including the mainland, Hong Kong, Taiwan or even Singapore.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
Actually, Bush didn't attend Harvard. He went to Yale and sent America into a tail spin. (Not blaming Yale on this point.)
Bill Gates, dropped out of Harvard, and founded a successful monopoly. Which supports your thesis, pedigree is just one of many mesures of future success.
BUNAC offers a range of working holidays including a summer camp counselling programme in the USA and Canada, flexible work and travel programmes to Canada, the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Britain and South Africa and volunteering/teaching placements. These are open to 18 year olds and over in the UK, the USA and Ireland. Programmes last from five weeks to two years.
you had me at #!
I lived and worked in Europe for a year, and then Australia for 7 years and it was the best time of my life. I even started our family overseas.
In a customer service/professional service type job, we had plenty of opportunity to travel all over, some places job related, and some not. London was a great jumping off point to the rest of Europe.
Things to be aware of:
When your return with a wealth of international experience, be prepared to deal with ignorant dweebs in HR departments who discount the value of that experience. You might also notice that your friends are now directors or VP's in companies and you're not.
I ended up starting my own consulting business. Some years are great, and others not but I wouldn't trade my world travel experience for anything.
Finally, save, save save. You'll need a stack of cash when you return. We returned with no house, no car, no job, family of four. So what did we do? We started two companies. I'd say 150K-200K to buy a house, a car or two, and start your own consulting business and subsidize living expenses for the first year.
For those who are still in college: Take a year between Junior and Senior and travel to find yourself. You'll be a better person and learn to appreciate what a great Land of Unlimited Opportunity the USA is (words from a German friend of mine).
Flame bait: With nearly 10 years of total world travel experience, I'm convinced that some parts of the world only hate us because they want to be us (or have what we have worked hard for) and they can't or won't for whatever reason. Help Keep America Beautiful.
http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/
Norway has 5 weeks of paid vacation, Opera would surely count as a known reference in the future and Norwegian salaries are... good. Norwegian might not be that useful, but atleast it shares a lot with swedish and danish.
I understand that, with their population dropping, they're encouraging immigration.
My wife and I have joked about emigrating. If we did, she could be a Scottish engineer (though she'd have to take remedial Scot accents....)
mark "we're shovelin' as fast as we can, Captain!"
It is all your fing KARMA...you did not look for friends so you got it...India is like a MIRROR you see yourself..FOR ages people have gone to India to find themselves not to install a f'ing software...India is not going to change just for you or for anyone else...It is older than when you were just a photon somewhere...
US News and World report started the bull**** a long time ago. There used to be 4 of them, now they skip the second one or something. Someone else in the replies here linked the full details.Basically:If you've heard of the school (in an acedemic sense, not ****ing sports), it's probably first tier.If you haven't heard of it, it's probably third tier (second gets skipped, wtf?).If you've heard of it from a TV ad or spam e-mail, it's probably fourth tier.There is no official clear-cut guidline other than their annual rankings. It's overhyped bull**** that it likely making US News a ton of money.
College-Pages.com - Online Colleges, Degrees, and Programs
I'm a U.S. citizen working in Canada right now. Canada and the U.S. have a tax treaty to recognize taxes taken out of wages in the other country. The U.S. tries to tax all of its citizens' income regardless of source, so if the country you work in does not have such a treaty you will end up being taxed by both countries. Even for Canada, it turns out the treaty doesn't cover certain things like investment income, so that could be double-taxed. Be sure to speak with a qualified tax attorney so you can avoid any pitfalls like this.
As an american who has moved to the Netherlands and learned Dutch, I can't agree more with this response.
I've been considering working in Europe for awhile as well, but my research showed programming salaries that were about 20% lower than comparable Canadian (and US) salaries while average cost of living was the same or higher. Of course, salary and cost of living were dependent on the specific European country.I looked at Holland, France, Belgium, Portugal, Italy, Ireland and Scotland and did deeper research into Spain and England (how can anyone afford to live in London?!)
Was my research way off?
BTW: I used economic studies of each country with specific breakdowns of salary and cost from various internet sites. I checked job and apartment/house (rent and buy) listings for Spain and England.
The jokes reflect a stereotype more than a dislike. You can make fun of groups of people without actually hating them. You can make a joke about British people and everyone would get it too, but nobody is saying that Americans hate British people.
Advantages for the cultural tourist: Central location, lots of history, great food, great beer. If you want to travel around in Europe, Belgium is a good starting point.
Here too, you will find that in many companies English is the second and often the first language at work. Learning another language may actually be a problem because most people will automatically switch to English anyway when they hear your accent. Most of my English-speaking colleagues say they get very little opportunity to practice their language skills.
For working practices you have to take into account the cultural difference. Belgians generally work shorter hours than Americans do, and have more time off, but that usually means that we compress all our work in relatively short time slots, which can be quite stressful. I guess Belgians get the same amount of work done in a day as Americans -- in reality limited by what people can usefully do in a day before they are exhausted, especially in a creative job. The more relaxed US approach to work is probably a lot healthier. But yes, you get time to travel.
As for living standards, Belgium is rather diverse. Most of the Dutch-speaking north of the country is rich. Some of the regions in the French-speaking south are quite poor and grim, while others are gradually dragging themselves out of a poverty trap. Brussels is a confusing mix of the two. Certainly at the current exchange rate, life here is expensive.
The IT market here is strong, as far as I know: Our IT managers certainly complain about the difficulty of finding qualified people. And they complain that such IT people as they get in, tend to be greedy teenagers with only their class of company car and type of PDA on their mind. Try not to be that type, and you'll probably find a job.
Pitfalls: Many expats prefer to live in the larger cities, where housing is very expensive and the traffic horrible. For two years, buying a house doesn't seem to make much sense, and because Belgians are compulsive house builders and buyers, the rental market is limited. It is probably better to live in a medium-sized city, which is cheaper and often more pleasant to live in. Distances in this country are very short anyway by US standards. A regular train will usually bring you right to the center of the nearest large city in 30 minutes, so why live there?
Taxes will be a shock: If you are to be an employee, then take into account you only about half of your gross wages will actually be paid to you; the rest goes straight to the tax collector. It's not as bad as it sounds, because gross income is high and this will also cover much of your health insurance and pension fund. Nevertheless it is best to be aware of the numerous special tricks that expats can use to reduce their taxes. Regular travel abroad, for example, is highly recommended. You may need an accountant, because nobody understands our fiscal laws.
Traffic may come as a shock too. By US standards, most European drivers are speed-crazy kamikazes, and Belgians must be among the worst. Although I have to say that things have improved a lot over the last ten years.
Many US-owned firms have branches here, and you may use that path to get posted here. However, there will be a limit to what companies are willing to pay to give an employees short-term foreign experience.
Right now I'm an American working and living in Westminster as a developer for a very large US company. It's an odd situation. Due to recent EU legislation I was needed here to fill a specific job role. As far as your background goes you are not too far off from me. I have a Bachelor's in Physics and Master's in Electrical Engineering from a large state school, The University of Alabama. I had 3 years experience when I came over. That was about 12 months ago.
But right now with Europe looking into the abyss economically and I can't see me coming over here now. I and most of the economist expect the Pound and Euro to drop sharply against the dollar for the next 12-18 months. That said I think you're timing can't really be any worse. On top of the economics many countries are looking to limit imigration even further.
If you do come over I'd look for a 'short term' expat program like the one I'm on. Housing here is silly expensive. About twice what you'd see in Manhattan. If my company wasn't paying all my bills I could afford to live here.
All in all I wish you luck but keep in mind the high cost of expenses here and the weird employment laws. Especially if you try to go the contractor route. The taxes here will flatten your wallet.
Flamebait? Sheesh. That was what my family and friends told me. I didn't pull anything outta my back; you just may have a different experience there if you're white and rich. Maybe I need to elaborate after all...
I've got a friend whom people over there ignored when he was merely asking them where he could find a doctor, because they thought he was begging for money. They didn't even bother trying to listen to him, just because he's not white. Another friend of mine, who now lives in a middle-sized town in France, people just insult when he's walking down the street because he's from a different ethnics than them -- so that includes Whites and non-Whites. A girl I knew told me she went to some village in France, and everybody didn't like her until she said she was a Christian, and not a Muslim, which they thought she was, at what point all the guys wanted to date her. Do I need to mention she's quite tanned? Do I need to go on with my friends' mishaps?
Looks like some people really need the option "-1: Disagree."
P.P.S: Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all French are racists and shall rot in hell. Damn, I could hardly do that -- I'm French myself. The thing is, people can quite often not be that open-minded over metropolitan France (at least when compared to Reunion Island), especially if you look African or Asian.
"The body may heal, but the mind is not always so resilient." -- Deus Ex: Human Revolution
If you are interested in working overseas, consider working for the US Government or a Federal Contractor.
Yes, the US government has a many jobs throughout Europe, even some with coding. There are also contractors to the government through SAIC, Northrop, etc. for jobs in Europe. Worth a look.
Word!
We can offer:
Just make sure to tell them I referred you (...profit!)
http://www.opera.com/company/jobs/
(And I'd sooner drive a nail through my face than live anywhere in the UK except London. London seems to have it's own culture, different from the rest of the UK.)
From the news reports the rest of the country hears about stabbings, muggings for mobile phones and ipods, protestors being herded and corraled into side-streets, rooms being rented out for hundreds of pounds per week, most UK'ers would probably drive a nail through their face than live anywhere except the outside of London.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
heh, my experience was the complete opposite. I lived in the Dutch countryside (Vogelenzang) for over a year, cycled everywhere, and came home barely knowing a word of Dutch. I got lost several times, mostly because a lot of the Dutch countryside has a bit of a legoland look to it and is all very similar (in hindsight, that could have been the weed). Everyone I asked for directions was really friendly and spoke in mostly good english.
It's easy to practice Dutch. Just ride your bicycle into the countryside and get lost. I guarantee that the person of whom you ask directions will not speak English. Or French. Or German.
Most Belgians (especially the ones from the northern part of belgium) actually do speak at least three languages: Dutch, French and English. Many also have notions of German. Even on the country side. People *must* learn and do exams until the age of 18, and learning those languages is *compulsary*.
Do get the facts before you project American education standards (or lack thereof) to European countries :p
"Both equally guilty" MIGHT have been believable the first few times in a century which Russia invades and destroys a small neighbor country.
But that is sadly impossible, since we will probably never see a time when Russia hasn't invaded and destroyed a few small countries the preceding century...
Karma: Excellent (My Karma? I wish...:-( )
Nonsense.
Story One.
I was living in Eindhoven (where Phillips comes from), and a car pulled up next to me and asked me something. I said "Sorry, sir, I don't speak Dutch, but I do live here and if you ask me in English I'll probably be able to help." He blinked, decided this was fair enough, asked me directions in English and I duly pointed him the right way.
Story Two.
I was in Amsterdam, in a flash burger bar, and I heard a waitress at the adjacent table explain to the Dutch chap she didn't speak English. And he was a little upset.
So she had a job in a restaurant. And didn't speak the local language.
Incredible.
"Cats like plain crisps"
I'm a web developer, and I recently moved to the UK from Canada. Not technically Europe, but pretty close.
It was easy to find work over here, but one interesting thing was that I had to find a recruiter to work with first. Wasn't used to that at my lowly level. I worked with about five to varying degrees of success. Stick your resume on Monster, and they'll call you. Not always with specific jobs, sometimes just to get a feel for what you're looking for.
As to travel, once you get to the UK, its dead easy. Sign up for deals on lastminute.com and Expedia. My wife and I have done all kinds of city breaks. Easy, inexpensive, highly recommend. Visit central Europe before it gets too touristy ... and that's happening now.
Also, while in the UK, you can easily enroll in one of the many private French schools. My wife's done Alliance Francais in Canada and in France, and loved it.
Cost of living ... expect to live a lot more frugally than you're used to!
I hope you take this opportunity! Its really changed our lives living here in London. Give me a shout at a[a t]awhite.info if you have any specific questions about stuff I've mentioned.
Make sure you talk to a tax specialist and really understand how the U.S. will continue to expect you to meet U.S. tax obligations. It is far from simple, logical, or fair. Realise as a U.S. citizen you will always have to file a U.S. tax return and report all world-wide income, and must work out your tax obligation through a series of foreign tax credits and exemptions. It is not fun.
(You may not owe U.S. tax, but even a swing in the currency exchange rate may expose you to a U.S. tax liability.)
This is incredibly important if you work for any extended period of time overseas, or if you would be working as an independent consultant / small business.
Things to watch out for:
*The cost of living varies greatly from country to country in Europe. Decide what you are here for as part of your planning. Experience, travel, savings?
*If you have a spouse or partner coming with you, some countries have unexpected pitfalls in various other industries (my partner is a teacher, tricky with qualifications and security checks)
*Contact reputable recruiters before you set your heart on a country/city. I found it best to get a few phone interviews before making my decision.
*Gatting your Visas can vary from 2 weeks to a year, depending on who and where. Plan ahead early.
*In my personal opinion, London is a good place to start. Preparation for the Olympics is in the mindset and there seems to be a lot of project work heading into the market. On the down side, people tend to get stuck there.
*Recognition of qualifications is a largely hit and miss affair it seems, particularly university degrees.
*Don't under estimate the benefits of starting off going to stay with a friend - not blowing your savings on rent because it takes you longer than expected to get your first job earning the Euro/Pound/whatever is much more important that you might think.
*Trawl the net for examples of localised resume/cv - experience has shown me that expectations vary from country to country.
Bugger Europe, thats old school. Come work in Australia: Easy for US person to get a Visa, plenty of work, English as first language, best country on earth (imho)...
... or boys in Sweden! Another important reason for going to live there ;-)
http://digg.com/television/Brits_VS_Swedish_nightclub,_Can_you_tell_the_difference_(NFS)?
I'm British and believe me there is a difference ;) If you come to the UK there are some useful acronyms to learn to describe many women here... RAF = Rough As F^%K and FUGLY (F^%King Ugly). Some example usages:
Jade Goody is RAF! (URL:http://www.startrip.tv/2007/07/posh-parents-vs.html> - the UK's answer to ugly Betty!!!!)
Lily Allen is seriously FUGLY and talentless! (http://perezhilton.com/category/lily-allen/)
"The ones who brought samples of their work "
Are the ones we laugh at after we send them on their way. It's absolutely pathetic.
I'd rather someone sit and tell me how he/she has solved a significant business problem. Or what their biggest challenge has been in the last year. I can pick with 100% accuracy how good a programmer will be in 20 minutes without looking at a line of code.
A code sample by itself tells you nothing, because you don't know the requirements (or quality of requirements) that went into the making of that code. In fact, ultimate code quality is often fairly meaningless unless you're hiring either an entry level coder or you're looking for a top-tier, alpha-dog, top-of-the-heap coder. But even there, the code may be meaningless unless you fully understand the context that forced the creation of code. Often times, the good coder can be recognized by the code he/she doesn't write.
If you want to spend a short time overseas and get a good amount of experience you could look at contract work for the government. You can work for General Dynamics, Titan Corp, Northrup Groman, or become any of the other companies out there. The military has greatly increased the amount of contractors and support for the technical field. You could also become a GS employee for the military. A lot of the jobs will allow you to stay with the company and move back to the states later. Sorry if I spelled any of the company names wrong.
Do you count Canada as being "abroad"? If so, there are plenty of programming jobs available here ... here are some high-tech companies just off the top of my head (obviously not a complete list -- just intended to give you a flavour):
Waterloo, Ontario: Google, Research in Motion, Sybase, Open Text, Actel
Toronto: IBM, Altera, Xilinx
Vancouver: PMC-Sierra, Motorola
etc.
That's what non-native speakers of English do when they go over to US. Surely Americans do the same?
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned this yet. I see that you wanted somewhere in Europe, but may I suggest Israel? The high-tech industry here is booming, and they are always happy to hire americans (both for programming prowess and superior English skills). I'm 16 and got a job programming Python for a local startup. You can probably get a job in Microsoft's R&D department here, with IBM, or with any of the thousands of startups. Plus, it's a beautiful country with plenty of places for touring :)
Most of Europe speak English as a second language. So you could pretty much live anywhere you are able to get work in (I don't know how US Citizens go about getting work visa's in Europe though).
Your best choices would be (in my preferential order):
- Holland. Everyone speaks English, it's an amazing place to live with easy access to the rest of Europe. You'd be driving on the same side of the road as the USA. Pay is pretty good. Work conditions are pretty good. People are very straightforward but also relaxed (and no it's nothing to do with the fact that marijuana is legalised there.... it's mainly the tourists that do it).
UK - pretty expensive place to live, excellent travel to elsewhere. Everyone speaks English (funny that).
Ireland - everyone speaks English. Good travel links to elsewhere.
Germany - most people will speak English. Excellent travel to elsewhere.
- Belgium. Same as Holland basically.
- France. Northern French are pretty arrogant. Can speak English but probably won't. Southern French are very nice.
I would like to help a slashdotter. Have a look at: http://www.iaea.org/About/Jobs/profstaff.html and http://www.iaea.org/About/Jobs/genstaff.html and consider if you can stand that US citizens are not everybody's darling any more. I would appreciate welcoming a brother in mind!
Don't go abroad. It's hard to find American food like Hamburgers, Pizza, Spaghetti, Bratwurst, beer, etc.
The country is a bit protective but salaries are good.
English has become the de facto lingua franca between the 3 communities (french speaking, swiss german speaking, italian speaking).
Switzerland is central and has decent vacations: 4-5 weeks.
The country is very safe and the landscape is really beautiful.
salaries in Europe are low, even for high-tech jobs, compared to the US. You have to think about the following:
1. Every job has an on-the-job training part. Will you get enough of this kind of training in Europe?
2. The first years of your employment are crucial in determining the growth of your salary in the future, on the average. In Europe, wages are low compared to the US, even in high-tech jobs.
.sig
The very first thing you need to consider is whether you are eligible for work in Europe or likely to get a work permit. Europeans certainly don't automatically get a work permit in the US; hell, even getting tourist visa is not necessarily trivial, I imagine it is the same for Americans going to Europe. AFAIK, the only ways you are certain to get a work permit are:
1. If you are married to a European
2. If you are studying at a European university (student visa give you part time work permit)
3. If you are exceptionally gifted - think "Soccer Star" or similar.
We have loads of programmers in Europe, so IT is not enough in itself.
If you succeed, however, the greatest pitfall is likely to be cultural. As an American you are probably going to have to prove yourself on a personal level; due to the impression left by American foreign policy and especially the Bush years, many Europeans are less than confident about the average American's ability to fit in. Living in Europe can easily be a major culture-shock.
Well, it's a good idea you have.
If you consider France, here's some info :
The right place to find a work in open-source is http://fr.lolix.org , i have found all of my internships and jobs there (6) in 10 years.
You will be able to speak english at work, as being able to speak/read/write english is necessary now to work in our field, but you'll have to learn a bit of french to live.
Don't expect locals to speak anything else than french.
Don't be afraid about hate of american people. We know how to make a difference about people and government. ;-) You'll be welcome as much as any other guy.
Seeing an american in France is something nice, as only the better ones dare coming
You have a trump card, too : american people do smile all the time, isn't it ?
Never forget that in Europe, and especially in France, War Is Wrong. And people who begin wars are seen as, well, Evil. (Bush...)
no matter what anyone tells you. I was in the your situation 10 years ago and being Spanish decided that I could try coming back home. Big Mistake. Really bad management, long hours at the office but no job getting done, no accountability, low salaries, ... . We even have a "Trash Jobs" we site focused on IT companies and testimonials of people who worked for them. The name is meaningful. For personal reasons I never got out of Hell, I mean of ItSaPAIN, but so many programmers have been leaving that the IT companies tend to pay newspapers to publish news about no unemployment in the IT business. But salaries are still low, and are kept really low because the whole IT industry uses "contractors". Which means that you have a lots of companies with management positions that need to get paid, so costs are very high and no money left for salaries. Before anyone tells me: "That's no possible because it doesn't make economic sense.", I'll say: "This is Spain. Economic sense doesn't make any sense at all. There are a lot of people here that need well paid management positions because they don't have skills. And they know people, so they get hired for doing brown nosing and bending over. Imagine all those people of good families and economic status having to work and competing with skillful workers." This is not a meritocracy.
I'm an Australian working in the Netherlands - I've just been through the process you're looking to try. I chose NL because I have family here, and everyone speaks enough English that you can get by fairly easily. Places like Germany of France could be more difficult - locals are less likely to speak English.
First stop for NL is the Dutch Immigration Dept: http://ind.nl/
Visa options here are a regular work permit (employer has to prove they can't find anyone in Europe), a Highly Skilled Migrant visa (employer has to prove that they'll pay you above a certain threshold) or work exchange program (you have to less than 30 years old.) If possible go for the last option - it's the cheapest to apply for. (These are the options for Australians - YMMV.)
Finding an employer can be difficult - recruitment agencies in NL require a work visa before they'll help you look (catch-22 - it's difficult to get a work visa without an employer's help.) The talent shortage here means that Dutch IT companies are pretty desperate though - I contacted companies in my field (web development) and got a job offer with the first place I tried.
Prereqs: You'll need to get your degree recognised, you'll need enough money to support yourself over here as you go through the application process (at least a few thousand dollars) and you'll need a wealth of patience - the Dutch bureaucracy is choked with red tape. (Example - residence visas require city registration, and city registration requires a residence visa. To get arround this they organise simultaneous iterviews. :) )
Your best bet is to contact an employer and talk to them about working for them. They'll walk you through the process and advise what visa will suit you (and them) best. Allow plenty of time before you come over for the application to be processed (mine took almost a year) and take copies of every conceivable piece fo paper with you (birth certificates, academic records, tax records, marriage certificates - be aware that they might need to be authorised by officials in your own country too.)
Good luck - it's been hard work but worth it for me so far.
Sorry dude, you should have taken the time to learn to speak a foreign language first. Granted you could work in the UK, but he shouldn't think the rest of the world is as lenient towards Americans that haven't ventured outside of the reservation.
French language is a bit difficult, but you will very easily find jobs were english is the working language. Beeing a native speaker will be a real plus.
You will have more spare time than in US: 25 paid leaves plus 10 days of "recuperations" and you almost never need to work more than 40 hours a week.
Be warned that there may be a lot of administrative annoyance
The ultimate in outsourcing, Americans going to India to program....
When you join an international company such as Capgemini, you can work in the US, but also in most European countries (e.g. UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany...). ;-)
In most european countries you can find clients that are OK with working in English such that a second language is not required.
You'll only have to be open to the 'continental' view on the US, but if you try hard enough, you'll understand it
I believe you would love Spain. There are a lot of opportunities in Madrid, Barcelona, Bilbao, Valencia,... You are going to enjoy the life here. The only risk is that perhaps you wont want to return to US :) Even if you return, I'm sure that being able to speak spanish is going to be very useful in US.
I'm British and I'm about to move out to work in the US for a few years. Apply to the UK and tell them you're replacing me! It'll be fine...
Hi!
If you're interested in applying for a job in europe, you might want to consider trying a multi-national company first. They usually handle all the paperwork for you (Visa, customs, Taxes, etc)
Look, this thing is totally safe! Built it myself, you know. You just press that button like this and then turn that lev
Hungary and Romania have very strong software communities, with alot of work to go around.
Learning finnish or hungarian (same root language, minor differences) is indeed difficult. Small tonal inflection difference, to the untrained ear, or transposing correctly pronounced sounds in an incorrect order will yield radically different meanings. Some very very vulgar meanings are apparently easy mistakes to make, and quite offensive.
In addition to the alphabet and tonal differences, there are also structural differences to do with where one places words in a sentence, or if all the words about a subject are actually in one sentence or parsed across a paragraph or several paragraphs, a bit like the more complex form of latin. You know, the one that some scholars back in latin days said that women could not learn because it (high latin?) was too difficult.
So, rather than assuming you can master the language, perhaps just try to get fluent enough to get around and to make yourself clear, most of the time.
good luck and have fun !!
You could always try the student travel approach - walk Europe as a student, and find work where you can, with people you like and you fit in with.
Perhaps would it be easier to work for a big american company (like IBM) then find opportunities within the american company to come in Europe.
> As a last note, I'd shy away from the UK as the violence there is getting bad enough that there are reports of people leaving because of it.
Hi, I am one of those people.
I worked in the UK for 4.5 years, returning to the US a few years ago.
At the time I left, the UK violent crime rate was being reported in UK papers as 3x the US rate. I left for many reasons, including that, the poor schools, and resentment at paying ever-increasing taxes to government trolls who (worse than in some countries I have lived in) clearly cared nothing for my safety or livelihood.
Having said that, I have some advice for the original poster.
First, as another poster has said, yes it is fun. And broadening. I wouldn't have missed it.
Second, I would strongly suggest obtaining a visa that lets you change jobs independently, rather than a visa obtained by an employer there. If you do get the latter, I would suggest applying for the former ASAP, after you arrive.
Third, yes, you will undoubtedly encounter the occasional anti-American bigot. However, if you yourself demonstrate a bit of diplomacy and seem like an OK type, most people you meet are likely to be delightful, and with some of them you will be able to have completely frank political and social discussions once you know each other.
The bad part is if you end up working for a manager who is an anti-American bigot (in the UK, such a person will also typically be an anti-Irish, anti-Scot and anti-Australian bigot as well). You will then later be able to watch the anti-"colonial" bigotry in "Breaker Morant" with a astounding shock of recognition.
Finally, I would agree that there may be more opportunities for Americans at the team-leader, PM, management, security/risk analysis or training level, than at the programming level. Most of the industrialized countries have quite good crops of local talent at all levels, particularly programming. This is one of the hurdles to consider when seeking a job overseas. But if a company thinks you will add value, and in particular if you are already in that country under your own steam (independent work visa), then there will be interest.
Good luck!
I understand most branches of the US military are accepting volunteers.
Learn how to spell colour, initialise, aeroplane, etc as a good start.
Get English under your belt, and you'll do just fine.
Oh, and don't bring a fanny bag. We have laws against that sort of thing in the UK.
This sounds like a lame attempt to locater a remaining place on earth where you can still get any advantage from being an American engineer. There may have been a time, but even twenty years ago when I worked abroad, people such as the Japanese were already plotting to steal our technology and overtake us in the global race for financial domination. Good luck finding a place where they still have enough respect for us that they won't sell you out the minute it benefits them and leave you wondering what happened. How sincere you think they will be will depend on your gullability. Keep your wits about you.
EMC has an important European operation in Mechelin (in Belgium, so fairly central in Europe). The language of the office is English.
One thing you must realize about software development as a career are that:
* The industry and profession changes more quickly than any other -- Tools change and go in/out of fashion. True, the concepts carry-over, because a lot of tools re-invent the wheel; it's both the stupidity of work-duplication and the evolutionary process of proving/disproving the effectiveness and usability of those tools.
* The culture of IT, and development in particular, says having a life outside of geekdom is akin to being a "cool kid" - and geeks were almost universally never cool kids. If you're not wholly-focused on being a geek in your spare time -- giving up time you could spend with friends, family, your own personal projects, etc. like the rest of the civilized, white-collar non-IT workers of the world -- you're branded an outsider. Go read DZone for a week if you need examples of people spouting such insanity.
* Business knows that developers are usually willing to give away their free time for nothing (OSS is a great example), even to for-profit organizations, and so will take every advantage of you they can.
Combine these 3 points, and you will realize that you either work in software development out of an unbridled, uncontrollable passion for it - or you don't work (or, at least, do enjoyable work, and probably sub-in for sysadmins, who suffer similar problems).
If you want a life, pick another career.
(Yes, IIAD.)
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
I did this, let me tell you how. First I went to work for a small multinational hardware company (gaspump manufacturer) that had software offices in Scotland,Switzerland, Germany, and Sweden. I spent about 5 years establishing my credentials - hard work, intelligently done (I hope), always tried to be helpful. There was an international project that needed some expertise and when they asked me, I said, sure, my family and I will love to move halfway across the world just to write code! My project was cancelled after a few months, but I convinced management to let me work a few more months on a project I proposed myself. It as a fantastic experience working Scotland and Sweden that I would gladly do again. The Nordic cultures are much more likely to take on temp workers - it supports half their economy. Good luck!
and I came to Switzerland. You can get around with English, and it's not a problem on the job. It took me 3 years to learn German; YMMV. I got my job through http://www.cba.ch/
The hassle is that nobody here actually speaks German for more than 5 minutes. If you want to stick around, you need to learn the local dialect, which took me another 3 years. AFAIK this is only a problem in the German-speaking area (70%), but that's where most of the tech jobs are.
If you have questions, contact nhaaim on aim dot com.
Hi, I am German, but have been working for years now in London, UK. Here in the UK it seems that degrees - at least in my industry which is online / web - do not matter that much. :)
U either join as graduat or postgraduate, and are then pushed through coroporate learning schemes or skilled up internally, but if u meet some basic requiements and appear as a person! they want to work with that seems fine.
If u are more senior, your portfolio is what counts, and with that of cousre your experience.
I had never ever to present any certificates or degrees
That may differ of course if u opt for a big consultancy or an investment bank. When I was working for Lehman Brothers they of course were only hiring oxford and harvard graduates. Funnily I am neither, but knew someone who knew someone...
so again not a big deal
Waht helps though is if u can get an idea of where your degree roughly fits in, in the birtish system, in case someone asks...
Germany however is different. Here all seems to be about certificates, degrees etc. But as other people have said, they will not htat much care aobu the university u come from. Different though if u wnat to go into academia or research...
If money isn't a concern, have you considered looking at Peace Corps, Americorp, or the red cross for any technical job listings?
i'm sure get gain a lot of work and life experience if you've never lived outside of the US for any number of years.
A new law have been voted in France this summer (2008). Foreign people coming to work in France will not have to pay for any income tax for 5 years... With the advantages of leaving here, it is a pretty good news. Source (in french) : http://www.joptimiz.com/impatriation.htm
http://www.infoworld.com/offshore/. We looked at 12 cities and 6 regions.
Hi Guys, www.joinmicrosofteurope.com - Microsoft in Dublin, Ireland are looking for up to 40 developers, technical hands-on managers, and developers in test to join their 5 new start-up teams. They provide a full relocation package for you and your family and in Ireland it's no big deal to get a working visa - kdawson, could be a perfect opportunity for you to see Europe for a few years :)
You can read all about the existing Team and the roles at their microsite, www.joinmicrosofteurope.com, and if you have any questions about the positions, or queries about living in Ireland, let me know. Send your CV to eurojobs@microsoft.com if you'd like to apply.
Slainte o Eire,
- Jen
As rbunker said before, lots of companies in EU adopt EG language for the studio. Also people from EU who know only one language can have problem to get a job in other EU town, like a guy who speak Russian, should learn Italian to work in Italy (if Italian language is the office one), but generally lots of company speak English at work, so I don't think you'll have so much problem to get a job in EU. If your target are UK, Germany, Russia, Poland for example, you're more advantaged then other ones who live here and don't know EG so good..