Slashdot Mirror
Palin E-mail Hacker Indicted
doomsdaywire writes "A University of Tennessee student who is the son of a Memphis legislator has been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of hacking Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's personal e-mail. [...] If convicted, [David C.] Kernell faces a maximum of five years in prison, a $250,000 fine and a three-year term of supervised release. A trial date has not been set."
This is the dumbest crime ever. If he really did it, I just wish he would say, "Yeah I did it, I'm an idiot - just look at my goofy hair." Then they could cite him with a $200 fine for disorderly conduct and we could all move on with our lives. But the fact that he's pleading not guilty is going to give this whole thing legs both in the court and in the media.
I'm a big tall mofo.
There used to be a show about dumb criminals and this guy - if memory serves me right - bragged about the hacking to just about anybody who'd listen, including his Betty Boop clock.
--
Oh well, Bad Karma and all . . .
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
When this whole thing came out, I learned that Sarah Palin was illegally using personal email accounts for business email, supposedly to avoid leaving the electronic trail. THAT was eye opening.
She changed her password to 0ldGuY=Mepr3z!!
My understanding was that illegally wiretapping American citizens carried neither fine nor penalty.
Yahoo! Pipes are awesome. How awesome? http://pipes.yahoo.com/jesdynf/slashdot
Obviously, the perpetrator was not entitled to any of the information contained within that Yahoo! email account and should be punished for breaking the law. What sucks is that he not really being punished for breaking the law, rather he's being punished for making Sarah Palin and thus the GOP look bad.
...will live up to their usual high standards.
The only reason this is even news is because of the target. If there's no government communication on the account, why are the FBI and Secret Service involved?
How many times a day do bitter exs break into each others accounts? Nothing ever comes of those incidents.
"liberty and justice for all those who can afford it"
I agree that this sort of crime shouldn't see any jail time, but the punishment should be painful nonetheless.
People who break into other people's mailboxes, whether physical or not, with the intent of damaging their reputation should pay a hefty fine.
Otherwise what stops anyone from breaking into their neighbor's mail on a daily basis? I thought Slashdot was all about privacy ;)
Is it just me, or does that sound a bit excessive for guessing the answers to her all-too-obvious "forgot password" questions? I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, but no actual harm was done. How does this compare to what the punishment would be for, say, hacking into an ISP's mail server and obtaining root access? Or defacing a company's web site?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
As far as I can tell, this is just a misdemeanor, which should carry at most a 1-year sentence. Does anybody have more details on this?
dom
Will sarah palin get a similar fine for using Yahoo mail to conduct official business?
Secondly, would the fine and prison term be that large if it was any old persons e-mail he hacked* into.
*If you consider asking Yahoo for the password to be hacking
because we all know that Nixon never had people willing to commit crimes for him.
can the moron who modded it offtopic explain the reason ?
so, government is ok when it ILLEGALLY wiretaps its citizens, but its not ok when the citizen does it ?
whats this, love of fascism, idiocy, morondom ? which ?
or did republican party unleashed a chapter full of registered members on slashdot ? i have noticed that A LOT of comments pointing to misdeeds of the current administration and the republican party and its candidates are being modded down with irrelevant moderation selections lately.. EVEN if you recite highly relevant, proven, undeniable FACTS. or is it a fault with the moderation screening process ?
Read radical news here
A lot of great information has come out of this so far. On one hand, we have the Governor of Alaska and potential VP of the United States using a public e-mail system (with a really simple password hint) for state work. On the other hand, we have some college kid who used Wikipedia to find out personal information on Palin, hacked her account, bragged about it, then plead not guilty. Is this some type of contest to see who is dumber?
However, I think that there are going to be a whole lot of people that are going to learn a lesson here. Like most of you here, I know a few things about cyber security (I work in the field) but Joe Six-Pack really doesn't. Maybe this will open a few eyes and we can cut down on cyber crime.
"Kernell, the son of state Rep. Mike Kernell, D-Memphis, turned himself in to federal authorities today."
Is this paragraph from the article misleading? I assume what they are getting at is that he didn't try to run away. I don't think he voluntarily went to the police and told them what he did. He was investigated and got caught, or at least the evidence points in his direction. Now he will take the heat like a man.
Either way, when he gets out of jail, he is going to get some major liberal/hacker tang!
What are the penalties for carrying out official state business in an unsecured email account?
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
I mean, I'm not American, I don't know what are the laws in there, but I personally think that first of all Palin was guilty of the thing she used Y! mail to do professional business instead of using another paid provider that would serve her better. Like she couldn't be smart enough to use a provider that does only POP or IMAP mail and locked to her computers IP.
It's stupid to get jail just because you were "smarter" than the guy (woman in this case) whose mail you were cracking. There are worse crimes in the world that get less punished than this one.
That's all I can say on this subject.
[insert lame sig here]
He simply typed a simple password and got in.
If you do something illegal, STFU!
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Welcome to a consumerist's democracy. Turn on your tv and stay a while.
I agree, it's sickening how brainwashed some people will let themselves become. But it's not like you're going to vote for a third party candidate. (If you are, then maybe there's some hope for the U.S. after all).
Plus, I'm pretty sure that the kid in that is the subject of this article didn't give a crap about Obama, at least before all of this went down. He was just your typical 4chan /b/-tard. It was never a crime to guess the answer to someone's "secret question" (a security practice that really should be taken out back and shot).
Fortunately we live in a society where the rule of law prevails.
Apparently not, because Palin doesn't seem to have been indicted yet.
If you think tampering with email is small potatoes, you just got your wake-up call.
It's small potatoes compared to government officials trying to hide from federal reporting requirements by using insecure free E-mail accounts.
Palin's conduct has been unacceptable.
For some reason the uber-parent failed to mention this, but the TN State legislator is a Democrat. May or may not mean anything, but odd to not mention it, isn't it?
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
court that what he did will "pale in" comparison to what she has been doing on the campaign trail in helping party. On NPR I heard that she claimed to be a friend of and to have a number of lesbian friends. Lesbians replied, "She's not friend of OURS", so i had a little chuckle out of that. Once people obtain the power she's seeking, what most of the public can doo will PALE IN comparison to what she is capable of or will do to protect what she gains access to.
(captcha: distorts)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I seem to see dozens of posters who have decided that Palin was conducting government business over her email. I thought I'd read all the email that had been made public. Did I miss some? Where is this idea coming from? Is it just a meme that everyone believes because someone asserted it? Has anyone actually SEEN an email that was "conducting government business"? If so, can you please post the content?
IANAFL but as I recall the default "plea" with a felony is "not guilty".
I'd ask a lawyer to correct me but I don't have cash or assets.
What strikes me about Obama, Biden and McCain is that whilst they may have some level of corruption I think to be fair on them all they do genuinely believe they can better the country if they become president.
Palin is the only one out the 4 who strikes me as only seeming to care about increasing her power rather than improving the country.
This is such BS. How many other email accounts have been "hacked" because of a little social engineering and nothing came of it??? Total BS!
If I wanted my mind made up for me, I'd do it myself!!
From TFA:
He can stay out of jail for now as long as he stays off his computer.
Can someone explain to me why judges get away with doing things like this, in the 21st century? A computer is part of life now. Would he get away with ordering someone not to use the telephone?
It's like saying "he is accused of stabbing someone, so he is not allowed to eat dinner using a knife".
Is it really considered hacking if you are using the password recovery service through Yahoo? The person was using a service built into Yahoo email, he was not hacking by most uses of the word. It bothers me when people consider something like this to be hacking. Hacking is modifying packets, cracking passwords, and looking for security vulnerabilities. This is none of those, it is using something the way it was supposed to be used by a large company, it was just used by someone who happened to put in the right information to the questions. Haven't people ever heard of putting in false information for those questions and remembering that instead of just putting in real information? I swear, some people don't think about security at all...
Gosh, why is the system failing. What could possible have happened to the US and democracy in general. Could there be some clue. Maybe something in your post. Geez, lets see.
Personally I forgot it happened
The powers that be thank you, dear consumer with the attention span of a kitten in a chicken plucking factory.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
>> If convicted, [David C.] Kernell faces a maximum of five years in prison, a $250,000 fine and a three-year term of supervised release
Not that I support hacking, but isn't this a ridiculously heavy penalty?
I'm only guessing here but it looks like he's only facing such a stiff sentence just because it was Sarah Palin, in which case the US legal system is F**'d up.
I mean why should she or her personal email be treated by the law as any more inherently important than anyone else? I mean, being a politician is just another job after all.
wow, you must have been the least observant kid throughout your schooling.
and has anyone proven yet that palin was conducting "official state business" via the yahoo account?
So the guy gets up to 5 years in prison and a quarter of a million in fines but an MLB player recently ran over two women killing them and he gets off with 5 months in jail. What the heck is going on with that?
Moreover, I would hope that he is prosecuted to the exact same extent that Sarah Palin would be for hacking my Yahoo mail account.
Of course, this is assuming I have a Yahoo mail account, Palin knows how to hack it, and that we have a reasonably fair justice system.
to have one's inbox violated. Or perhaps more accurately his Outbox.
By referring to this guy as a hacker, you are only contributing the media perception of hackers as anyone who wants to gain access to the information of others.
> I really wanted to get something incriminating which I was sure there would be, just like all of you anon out there that you think there was some missed opportunity of glory, well there WAS NOTHING
Spouting that as proof is like taking Slashdot's advice on a legal matter. But I'm fairly sure this idiot didn't know about the Alaska Public Records Act, and it's hard to miss that there were several emails marked "CONFIDENTIAL" and discussing government matters.
That said, you're right that this guy deserves to be prosecuted. He broke the law and he'll get his due. But the fact that he was wrong does not make Palin right.
What is the big F'ing deal? The government looks at everyones email, listens to our phone converstations (illigally I might add) but it's not ok for the average citizen to do the same thing? I don't see law enforcement running out to charge the NSA with a crime. I actually condone what he did! I see it has a "here's a big middle finger to you".
The crime should be a possible future VP using an unsecure, non-government email account to do government buisness - and using a VERY unsecure password at that. It shows how easy it is to get at the informaiton in those emails. It also shows what a complete and utter DULT she is. People would trust this women as a VP and a possible President if McOld dropped dead? That's another crime in itself - a crime of pure supidity of people.
They should be rewarding this kid for showing this country what a bonehead McCain picked for a VP.
The Truth is a Virus!!!
If he gets off lightly, it sets a dangerous president. You'll likely see even more crime committed for the purposes of digging up dirt on politicians. Imagine if someone planted cameras in politicians homes or tapped their phones for getting anything humiliating about them. If that seems far fetched, anti-McCainite broke into a McCain headquarters to steal a laptop with campain strategies. http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/823580.html . Is this really how we want politics to be? As it is, you'd have to be extremely masochistic to run for office.
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2008/08/almost-everyone.html
Almost everyone forgets a Web site password once in a while. When you do, you click on the familiar "Forgot your password?" link and, after entering your pet's name, identifying your high school mascot or answering some other seemingly obscure questions, you can get back into your account.
But there's a problem: A criminal can do that, too. With the help of social networking sites like Facebook and MySpace, personal trivia is getting less obscure all the time. Youâ(TM)d be surprised how easily someone can uncover Fido's name or your alma mater with a little creative searching.
Some security researchers are beginning to sound the alarm about "password resetting" tools, suggesting they could be the weakest link in Web security.
What makes me laugh is that the first public victim of this "weakest link" is the candidate to the VicePresidency of the United States.
In any case, I completely distrust those websites which don't let me choose my own personalized security question.
i.e.
"Under the abandoned mines of the ancient dwarfs, which precautions would you take before finding the tomb?"
And my personal reply would be, "do not wake up the trolls".
What's strikes me as downright odd, if not wryly funny, is that she thinks she has "international experience" by virtue of governing a state on the bleak/cold side of Russia. Does she jet-set to Moscow to get "tapped" into the goings on of the local economies there, neighboring Alaska? How many times has SHE been to visit a foreign head of state, or, to be fair, her titular equivalents overseas?
But, to be level toward them all, in the end, they'll be controlled, or corrupted, by lobbyists, constituent's mis-speaking representatives, and by their own hidden agenda/goals. And, even though Obama has never served or worn the uniform, big deal. "America's" claim to fame is a big-dick military and scientific arsenal, but almost without fail, every SINGLE PRESIDENT has ALWAYS been to some extent matured or constrained by military, political and economic realities. If elected, Obama will have no END of experts jockeying to get close to him and on his short list of head of this or director of that. Same with McCain. But, given his past in the service, he'll think hes' more qualified/endowed to make better decisions. Obama might, by virtue of his skin color, HELP "America" become more moderate, less of a dickhead country (by leadership, not by public population, mind you), and -- hopefully -- less of a target by Al Qaida. McCain, otoh, has too much baggage and self-righteousness and POW history to be credibly respected by terrorists who hate America -- not for what she/it IS, but for what the lineage of "leaders" typically (except maybe Carter and a few other less "military expeditionary" types) "stand for".
For the sake of the country, some could argue that McCain ought to just "bow out", just as -- to prevent the country from "tearing itself apart" -- Lincoln, Johnson, and a few others made history, world-affecting decisions that spared the US from greater pains than otherwise would have happened. The US needs more "hip", in-tune, relevant, current, CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP, not just "more of the same". Like 250+ years of the same.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
I would agree, it wasn't hacking.
But, it was identity theft. He was pretending to be her so that he could get the password reset.
Considering the old 'innocent until proven guilty' thing (good for democracy, jurors, and mass media, too!) the title ought to be better than "Palin E-mail Hacker Indicted." Something more accurate would be nice...maybe: "Accused Palin E-mail Hacker Indicted".
This person guessed the correct password, looked at the e-mail then posted screenshots. The wiretapping analogy is accurate up until the part where he posted screenshots. The person who changed the account is the whistleblower who alerted authorities, supposedly on the pretense of preventing "further damages". There is no reason for anon to CHANGE her password if the snooping was done for the lulz.
I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
Palin is the only one out the 4 who strikes me as only seeming to care about increasing her power rather than improving the country.
Interesting, what makes you say that (not trying to start a flame war, I'm genuinely interested)?
Correctness matters. Mercy matters more.
Obviously this is another of the Republican dirty tricks which was mentioned in another article. The nasty Republican got an innocent Democrat to steal her stuff. What a dirty trick.
At Geezer and Gidget's recent speeches, they had people shouting "treason!" and "kill him!", the object of their vitriol being "that one." So, is the McCain Campaign helping the Secret Service in investigating these death threats?
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
. I'm surprised that many people who normally are pro-freedom turn out to have very situational ethics when it comes to people they regard as political enemies.
when your political enemies run the media as a propaganda arm of their party, then whistle innocently or cry "tinfoil hat" when anyone points out the obvious.
When your political enemies start arresting people for wearing "give peace a chance" t-shirts in the mall.
When your political enemies create "free speech zones", and their partisan court appointees uphold the obvious constitutional breach
When your political enemies engage in domestic surveillance which makes watergate look like piss in the ocean.
When your political enemies give rise to a multi-billion dollar industry of astroturfing campaign firms trying to "manufacture" "public support" for their intolerant, totalitarian positions.
You have to fight dirty too.
The age of honor is over.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
...encapsulated in one, simplistic know-it-all sentence.
The so-called Terrorist Surveillance Program (TSP) no longer exists, and hasn't since 17 January 2007.
All surveillance was happening under the guise of the Protect America Act, which was designed exclusively to allow foreign intelligence collection without a warrant when the traffic travelled through the United States, whether incidentally or by design. Foreign intelligence collection is always allowed without court oversight; the changes explicitly allowed such collection on US soil as long as the target was reasonably believed to be a non-US person physically outside of the United States, regardless of the other end of the conversation.
Now the Protect America Act has expired with its automatic sunset, and all surveillance must again happen only via FISA, as amended.
Also, TSP, in its entirety, was never as clear cut as being simply "legal" or "illegal" (court decisions on individual aspects aside). Those who claimed that it was "illegal" did so largely for political reasons. The other mistake is equating "traffic that *could be* listened to" with "traffic that *is* listened to" -- unfortunately, they are not at all the same. This also ignores that to even determine whether traffic is subject to legal collection, it must -- to be blunt -- actually be able to be collected. Thus the things like "secret rooms" at telecom facilities.
Having the capability to instantaneously examine traffic of international origin, where one or both endpoints of a communication are international, necessitates such wholesale monitoring capability. However, such capability being present does not imply its use for all traffic.
There are two issues here:
1. Monitoring the contents of a communication
2. Monitoring the metadata or "envelope" (source and destination information) of a communication
The first is allowable without a warrant or court oversight when one or both endpoints of the communication are international, and when the target of such monitoring is a non-US Person outside of the United States. Such foreign signals intelligence collection does not require a warrant or court oversight.
The second point above has multiple functions. One is using advanced data mining techniques to look for troubling patterns in communications.
Such collection has been found to be legal without a warrant or court oversight by the US Supreme Court:
Source: Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735 (1979)
Courts have subsequently found that pen register statutes apply similarly to computer network addresses known as IP addresses, lists of web sites visited, and the "envelope" of an email message -- its To: and From: addresses and related information. The NSA itself has long understood that while the capture of the "metadata" of communications is fair game, the capture of the *contents* of the conversations of US Persons is not, without a warrant:
Holy shit now I'll have to start using HTML everywhere for privacy :(
</sarcasm>
http://stoploudness.org/
[citatation for unsupported assertion conspicuously, but not unexpectedly needed]
You're voting for Obama because he "seems" like an important person? What? Gravitas or something? His ability to give a good speech?
Last time I checked, you have to do something to be important. But I guess that is where we are at now - you don't have to do anything- you just have to seem like you could to people like you . .
"taking the high road."
Do I double quote that?
This isn't about taking the high or low road, but which road to take.
"This stance does in no way let Palin off the hook for transgressing her government's policies on using outside email for business work, but that's not the point. Her privacy was violated in an illegal manner, and this cannot be tolerated for an instant. How can a person stand against government electronic surveillance while at the same time say the behavior of this individual is acceptable?"
Wrong, because she is a government official. When you are elected to government positions, you give up many of your rights to privacy.
"he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law"
And here is the crux of what is interesting about this debate. Which law? Was he hacking into a private email account? That would be easier to argue had Governor Palin not named her account gov.sarah@yahoo.net . Its like putting a sign on your door "Illegal activities here!!"
Or, do you charge the guy with hacking official government documents, that, while not secret, where not released to the public. OR, do you charge him with vigilantism, which is the crime that he actually confessed to?
So, I think this case will get bogged down into trying to determine the nature of that email account, and will have NOTHING to do with privacy.
"A University of Tennessee student who is the son of a Memphis Democrat legislator has been indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of hacking Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's personal e-mail."
There...fixed that for you.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
The US government is now able to monitor any and all communications within the country without a warrant. Sarah Palin supports this. So yeah, I *WOULD* feel violated if someone hacked into my yahoo email account, just as I *DO* feel violated that the US government has legal access to ALL MY ACCOUNTS. The real question, I think, is to ask why law enforcement officers persued this particular invasion of privacy with such zeal while ignoring far more serious invasions of privacy happening every single day.
Give him a suspended sentence ... on probation ... condition ... he has to listen to Palin talk for one hour each day ... I think he'll opt for jail.
Yes, stuff like this used to be deemed "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" by the Constitution, but that piece of paper has recently been shit-canned by the government.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If Palin and McCain want the tech vote. Palin needs to speak out publicly and say that this student should only be held responsible with his college, and they should ask that all federal charges be dropped. Then they can have their picture taken with the kid and say they forgive him. Otherwise they just end up looking like a pair of old farts yelling, "Kids! Get off my lawn!!!".
debate over using the email for public/private use aside, did anyone pick up on this?
FTA:
"The University of Tennessee student, who is the son of state Rep. Mike Kernell, D-Memphis, turned himself in today after being indicted by a federal grand jury."
Coincidence?
Not too long ago someone used my email to cause all sorts of mischief. And it has me on the war path.
To me, the crime is simple. It's the same as him breaking into her home and stealing all her opened mail. And if there was any unopened mail, it's the same as going to my mailbox and stealing all my unopened mail as well.
Not to mention his motivation. Trying to skew an election.
IMO ... he needs to be made an example of.
Hurricane Island Outward Bound
OB
Incorporation applies via the 14th amendment to rights guaranteed by the bill of rights and other constitutional mechanisms. The Constitution does not grant a right to our government's communication to the public, which is why we have the FOIA. It also doesn't prohibit them, since it's not even discussed in the Constitution in the detail that's covered by the FOIA and related state laws, therefore it falls under the purview of the 10th amendment, which leaves the matter to the states and their residents to decide.
The FOIA act does not grant a new right under the Constitution, and Congress does not have the authority, even under the expanded Interstate Commerce Clause rulings, to force open such communications. Therefore it is not incorporated by precedent into state laws and actions. It is thus functionally invisible to the 14th amendment.
That said, she's probably fair game under Alaska state law, as it should be, since she's only accountable to Alaskans at this point given the only elected office she holds.
It still has the same problem, asking for your secret answer to the question without delay. I tried the same thing on my gmail account and it said something about waiting for five days without being used first, and notification of your alternative email account. IMHO gmail > yahoo mail in this case.
All she has to do is show the content of the emails to the court.
If she's destroyed evidence, then the evidence of break in is also unsuportable.
The NBA has a hard cap for individual salaries.
Can you tell us where you park your car when you're not using it? Surely you wouldn't mind if we use it when it's just sitting out in the open. If we return it to the same place, there's no actual harm being done. And if some of us leave it someplace else, there still is no actual harm being done because you'll get the car back eventually.
I've got a question for all the Obama Campaign/Democratic Party astroturfers here today spreading the outright lie about Palin using her personal Yahoo email account for official State business despite all the evidence and indications to the contrary.
How much do they pay you, and where does one go to sign up? Do you fill out job applications, or what?
Just curious as to what sort of compensation you're willing to accept and what kind of hoops you're willing to jump through to sell what's left of your honor and integrity. I didn't mention selling your soul because you obviously must lack one to consider doing this stuff in the first place.
Do you do it for free? If so, then I guess you didn't have any honor or integrity to sell either.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
I'm sure he through it was a scathingly brilliant political idea when he first came up with it. This may well have been after a couple beers too many. The stupid part was actually going ahead and doing it afterwords. The really stupid part was crowing about it on the Internet after feeling that going through a proxy would protect you. Extreme cleverness will be punished every time.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I apologize if this is a stupid question, but what law says that it is illegal to guess someone's password and read their email? I'm not being snide, I actually want to know.
I am asking because I have friends who have had their yahoo accounts hijacked. Of course, yahoo was less than helpful recovering their account and no federal indictment resulted from their situation. I'm sure that was just a small oversight on the Justice Department's behalf though.
Who watches the watchers? Why should we NOT be allowed to see what is going on in our government in real time?
Ramen
because we all know that Nixon never had people willing to commit crimes for him.
Nixon would never have people commit crimes for him. He'd do it himself because like he said, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal."
Of course I am kidding, but what does Nixon have to do with Obama and some of his crazy followers? Just because Nixon did it doesn't make it right for Obama or anyone else. Nor does it let him or others off the hook. Some of Obama's followers are very scary, but that doesn't mean you should vote for or against him.
Personally, both McCain and Obama are the same to me. Both wanted the "bailout," both have interventionist foreign policies which is the reason for this mess in the first place. It just sounds like more of the same from from both.
If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
It's nice the wheels of justice move quickly in this matter while they go so slowly in the Palin investigation. Face it, money has corrupted the legal system.
How can a person stand against government electronic surveillance while at the same time say the behavior of this individual is acceptable?
How can a person (or government) stand for government electronic surveillance while at the same time say the behavior of this individual is unacceptable?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Whatever your views about any candidate and the party they represent, but hacking into email accounts is nothing but a crime. Period.
Because she likes her email to be private? Or because she is hot and knows it?
Also, take a real close look at Biden before you make such a judgement about him caring for the country.
Here, have a rant - http://youtube.com/TheMouthPeace
---- Liquid was a patriot ----
It's the maximum possible penalty, but not all cases get the max.
I'd hope the sentence is served in a cell at a SuperMax prison in total isolation, 1 hour per week out of the cell, and guards who don't even talk to the prisoners. Exactly the same place that John Gotti, the Unabomber, and other great folks got to enjoy their time away from the stress of the real world.
I have less than zero sympathy for anyone who "hacks" or does dirty tricks in an attempt to influence elections.
It's no different from what the Nixon "dirty tricks squad" pulled in Watergate, really.
Seriously.
That's the key. How many webmail accounts do you think are compromised every day in the world? Now, how many are investigated by the secret service and result in a federal indictment?
How many of those webmail addresses are the property of people granted the customary US Secret Service protection enjoyed by candidates for high office?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Son of a Democratic legislator in Tennessee...and his clarification post on /b/ made it clear that his intent was looking for damaging e-mails. Lurk moar.
I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
Hell, it's not even cracking. It's impersonation. That's all it is. No systems were broken into; in fact, the systems worked exactly as they were designed to work. If they want to nail this guy for fraud of some kind, do so. You don't need any special laws just because he misrepresented himself to a computer over the internet rather than another person.
OK, I'm gonna weigh in on this. I'm amazed at all the people who assume that something is illegal, just because they think it's "wrong." And then there are those who spout false statements because they know that once in print, other clueless people will believe it even if it's false. Three points: * The guy that did the "break-in" is an idiot, he should be fully prosecuted for breaking the law. * Using a personal email account for state business is not automatically wrong or illegal. * Palin is popular in Alaska, and very much trusted and loved by those who know her closely. While she will run you over if you stand in her way, she tries hard to do the right thing. That's what excites those with the same political leanings--she works hard for what she believes. Doesn't everyone want a politician who at least tries to act according to what they say? Mind you, these opinions were not pulled out of thin air: * I grew up in Wasilla, AK, and the Palins are family friends (20 years) * I have known politicians and the political scene in Alaska for many years, and I am familiar with the laws and politics of the state I live in now * I am now the systems and communications manager for the largest state agency in another state, including an email system with thousands of employees accounts * I am very familiar with the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, as well as multiple states' archival laws * A governor's email with his/her aides is not necessarily public record and subject to archival/discovery rules. There is a specific test as to what constitutes "official business."
So you are saying there is no evidence for wrongdoing on the part of Palin but you are placing blame on the Obama Campaign for some nutjobs on Slashdot? Seems like you have an agenda as well.
If this was a personal account why are the feds spending the resources to preempt every other yahoo "hacking" investigation?
This should be a priority to investigate and prosecute if the account was used illegally to conduct government business in the opaque, or it should go in line with the multitude of hack, scam, and identity theft cases that happen every day because it was merely a personal account.
Orin Kerr, Professor of Law; George Washington University Law School, who is a supporter of John McCain, questions the legality of the indictment:
Rush Limbaugh is a perfect real world example of an oxycontinmoron
Weird. I dislike Palin but of those 4 she's the only one who doesn't make me immediately mutter "corrupt senator." I'd say she's the most sincere of the bunch. She just happens to be wrong about a lot of things.
No, bad analogy, you DORK. It's like saying the doctor is stupid because he can't drive a car. Using email accounts is these days, despite McCain's example, a completely normal and expected activity for everyone in business, especially government business. And you don't need to be a bona fide slashdot nerd when you sign up to be governor, for fuck's sake, to know about how the Freedom of Information Act applies to your JOB and your use of your correspondence facilties (in this case email) to do your JOB. Fuck, man. Didn't we recently hear all about that with some individuals in the Bush administration? If there's one, just ONE, government related business email in her private account, she's fucked up big time. Because it sets precedent, and makes for lazy adherence, or complete non-respect, for the LAW of the land. These people, like coppers, are to be held to a HIGHER standard of ethics than we Joe Sixpacks. She's aiming for VPOTUSA - don't you think she should know already, and instinctively, that all her correspondence will be examined? Don't you want accountability? Oh, wait - this is American politics, right? My bad.
Can someone explain to me why judges get away with doing things like this, in the 21st century?
.
What part of "he can stay out of jail" don't you understand?
The grand jury Indictment on the felony charge implies some loss of privileges.
He can accept the terms of his release or spend the holidays looking out at the world from the wrong side of an electrified fence.
I've got a question for all the Obama Campaign/Democratic Party astroturfers here today spreading the outright lie about Palin using her personal Yahoo email account for official State business despite all the evidence and indications to the contrary.
Just because something bad actually happened to Palin does not discount the proof. By the way, there are plenty of US citizens that do not want to pay for another personal jet for Ms H1-B Fiorina.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The kid used only one proxy. Not too smart, oh well. This would have been very interesting if he'd taken reasonable steps to cover his tracks. Using Tor for example. I would really have love to see that put to the test in something like this.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I think Gmail has changed the recovery password process based on this incident. You cannot use the security question option UNLESS the account has been inactive for 5 days. You have to use secondary email instead.
Many people on here are falling all over themselves to defend their favorite political party.
Democrats:
"He found illegal stuff, so it's OK." or
"No real harm done, it's an innocent prank."
Republicans:
"He broke the law!!! OMG, throw away teh key!"
"It doesn't matter what he found."
Somehow I imagine things would be the exact opposite if somebody hacked Biden's e-mail.
So, for partisan Democrats it's OK to violate privacy if you're sure somebody did something wrong. For Republicans, the whole Christian forgiveness thing goes out the window because their favorite candidate was harmed. Free Barabbas anyone?
It's funny how people abandon their principles so fast when it comes to politics.
> Uh, nothing was found. You can keep saying that, but there was nothing there. Sorry.
They found that she was probably conducting government business in violation of the Alaska Public Records Act given the emails marked "CONFIDENTIAL" and those with subject lines concerning appointments and other government business. Whether she will be called to account for that is another thing. The only person who has declared her innocent is the hacker himself. Frankly, I don't take that idiot's word for anything. And yes, you would be right to say that the hacker deserves punishment. But I don't see how Palin deserves sympathy.
> Palin is not in Congress. She is the governor. That is an executive position.
While you are correct in correcting them, that doesn't make her immune to the public records act.
>> ...corruptly fires safety commission over a personal argument...
> She fired the Chief because he was going after funding after Palin denied it. He was trying to go over the Governor's head to get things done.
Actually, he had approval for that and he had it in writing. Palin's excuse is flimsy, at best. Frankly, it's plain to me that she's quite petty whatever her motives.
> Governor's don't like that much. What would your boss do if you went to his boss, or more accurately, the head of a different department to request funding after your boss had denied it? I suspect you would end up in the same place as this particular chief.
Well, considering that he did have approval, she should have thought before acting. After all, Alaska has one of the worst records on rape and this man was trying to do something about that. You go on about how he was "going over her head" (even though he had written permission for this), but let's make one thing clear: he was trying to help Alaskan rape victims. Essentially, you're left arguing that Palin fired the guy for trying to help rape victims!
> Government officials are still citizens. They deserve privacy just like you or I do. If they are not above the law, then they have the same rights as you or I.
Here, I tend to agree with you, only with the caveat that her emails about government business should be separated from her personal emails and made public. I further agree that the hacker deserves punishment.
I do NOT agree that because the hacker was wrong, Palin was right. I believe that there is evidence that Palin violated the Alaska Public Records Act and that she should be held to account for that.
> Otherwise, we would be allowed to see into the private lives of the old lady at the DPS office. She is just as much a government employee as the governor.
No, no one wants to see into people's private lives. The fact that the hacker invaded both is why he deserves to be punished. However, Palin also deserves to be held to account for why she was mixing government and personal business. Even old ladies who send emails concerning DPS business should be required to document them so that we can be assured that our government is operating in a fair & transparent manner. Thus, Palin's work-related email should be extracted from her personal account and made public, while her private matters should remain private.
It's what the law requires and, as you pointed out, she is not above the law.
> But, hey! Don't let the facts cloud your judgment.
Indeed. And please don't ignore laws like the Alaska Public Records Act simply because someone else broke a different one.
I learned that Sarah Palin was illegally using personal email accounts for business email
No, you learned what anti-people were claiming without any evidence. This claim has been debunked. She was not using her personal e-mail for work. Does the truth even matter on Slashdot anymore? Or "we all hate Palin, so don't let the facts get in the way of a good story?"
Slashdot "libertarians": Small government for me, big government for those I disagree with. -1, I disagree with you
We, the public, do have the authority to detain someone, if that person was seen to commit a felony. It's called a Citizen's Arrest. I've done this myself, in cooperation with an off-duty police officer. I handed the immobilized (with an arm lock - I teach martial arts) but rather upset suspect over to the officer, who invited me to wait around until backup arrived. It used to be pretty standard, although now it's likely to get the citizen arrester in more trouble than the arrestee. Here's the wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest
If it's The Almighty and Unquestionable Governor of Alaska, they make due haste to find and prosecute.
If it questions The Almighty and Unquestionable Governor of Alaska, they make due haste to stall prosecution.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
There is not a functioning separatist movement in Alaska any more than there is in Texas...
Just because it's not functional doesn't mean it's not anti-American.
I mean, if incompetence was an excuse, no one would care about Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I read through your citations, and not one of them are substantiated; They take a narrow and highly partisan view of the facts available in each case. The last claim is particularly absurd, given that no poll was done, and you have to read to the very end of the article (like many published articles in the press, sadly) to reach this gem:
Yet many on both sides of the political fence who initially were critical of Palin have rallied behind her.
"Everything that's flitting through my mind right now is better left where it is," Rep. Jay Ramras, a Fairbanks Republican who has been a strident critic of Palin, told the Anchorage Daily News last week. The governor, he said, has become "the American idol of politics."
That kid has effectively ruined daddy's career in politics, whether he goes to jail or (more likely) plea bargains it down to a fine, community service time, and staying off the internet. When daddy next runs for election, he'll be smeared as the father of a dirty low-down hacker.
So I'm thinking that he didn't do it. If you ever hang out on 4chan, specifically /b/, you'd see that they pride themselves on being anon. It's completely against all logic and reason to post that confession with a name, unless of course you wanted to be caught. Or for someone who goes by that name to be caught...
Primarily because she simply doesn't understand the majority of the issues the rest of them are talking about. If someone were to be VP and actually care about the country one might imagine the first thing they'd do is spend every waking minute, researching, learning and understanding the issues.
Instead of actually working out the problems and coming up with good proposals, or at least learning McCain's proposals she is basing her part of the campaign on misdirection, playing on ignorance and outright attacking the opposition with suggestions that Obama for example is a terrorist.
Her track record only goes to further suspicion in her real priorities and the ongoing court case surrounding her abuse of power raises yet more suspicion. Her previous quote about not knowing what a VP even does again, raises questions.
The other 3, whilst having been engaged in some hostilities towards each other have based their components of the campaigns around policy far more than Palin has.
Instead of actively working to prove her critics wrong about for example her lack of foreign policy experience or at least trying to demonstrate it's not something that would hold her back by getting out there and meeting some foreign leaders she instead seems to simply dodging the issues.
The longer she avoids actually learning about the job the more obvious it seems it's simply not the job she cares about but the power it brings. Obama was in a similar situation to her but made the effort to get out there and resolve the issues raised about his experience. If he too had simply not bothered and had instead launched rather unprovoked attacks at McCain I'd too question what his real interests were.
...the guy should by no means serve more jail time than Palin.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
The true nature of information is that it can be used as a commodity, but if you eavesdrop...you as a citizen can get it for free, and that's all been well and good, unless you used it to bring down your country. Until it was defined as a commodity by corporate interests we could all send and recieve any information we had freely. Now we don't get anything for the information we disseminate...but pay for the information we want. Awesome...just like buying water. When you hack into Joe Keggers email...he can't go to the cops...they don't give a fuck. But when you find out the truth about someone in power, and they don't want you to...you pay. Thus the lesson is, be careful how you distribute information you think people should have access to, but which may cause you to land in jail or prison, and/or pay heavy fines. Oh...and people often suck. And the world is a bit fucked up. Don't get caught up in the quagmire.
So the argument is that she is not (very) corrupt, just stupid.
Works for me.
We have had enough stupidity in the White House over the past 16 plus years for me.
Say what you want about Obama, he is not stupid.
Well done!
You responded to my post by confronting me and being an asshole about it. Nice job.
"Why don't you try to refute the point..."
Because maybe I agree, but am tired of loudmouthed confrontational jackasses like you dominating the discussion and lowering the level of discourse?
Why don't you stop presuming people who respond to you but don't rush to slurp you are in oppositon to your points?
Probably because, as you admit, you're a confrontational asshole and, as such, don't have the social skills to do so.
You are consistently, and nearly exclusively, a confrontational asshole when you engage others in discussion.
I don't care about your equivocations, justifications, or excuses and I certainly am not going to fall for your schoolyard "I know you are but what am I" nonsense, it might fit in with how you debate, but I'm not debating you.
You are an asshole. You know operaghost? So what you're still an asshole. I said things that you don't like? So what you're still an asshole. You think I'm a hypocrite because that's your standard response to criticism, as though criticizing you in an effort to improve the discourse is equivalent to you mindlessly attacking people even when they're right like you admitted I was about you being an asshole?
Guess what? You're still an asshole.
Get it? I'm not going to play your misdirection games asshole, you are responsible for lowering the level of discourse with your antics, and my actions in no way change that, no matter how many unrelated points you throw out to obscure the fact.
Nothing you say about me, nothing you do, no point you make, no argument you try, no insult you use changes the irrefutable fact that you are a confrontational asshole, have admitted it, and are now embarrassing yourself in a vaib attempt to mitigate it.
Because continuously maintaining your assholishness and attacking people who try to improve discourse is so much more mature and adult than you just not being an asshole.
Yeah, how dare I expect adults to behave as such!
> There was nothing in them that any sane person would construe as state business. Talking about election plans and partisan coverage is emphatically not state business; it's a party political matter. Sending family photos is, again, not state business.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin_Yahoo_inbox_2008
There's also an image with an email saying "Fw: veep talking points" It's hard to see that as a personal email, given that this was before the Tina Fey jokes.
No one is saying that the family emails were government business. That's absurd. I will even agree that most of the email was personal, but it's clear that not all of it was and the two shouldn't be mixed in the first place! I personally keep my work email on a separate account from my personal email and I don't mix the two in general, particularly if dealing with outside customers.
How is a draft of a letter to Gen. Schwarzenegger concerning government business "personal", anyhow? This becomes even more relevant when you consider that her tax returns are a bit odd. She's been getting a per diem (along with her family!) for being "away from the office" (and at home). At least some of this should clearly be reported as income. I know it's a side issue, but my point is that having one of her emails hacked by some dumbass who declared her innocent doesn't actually exonerate her. Also, we're told that the gov.sarah account was more widely used for government business and it was NOT hacked, if you recall. You can read the tax analysis here, BTW.
And the information I put up on the Alaska Public Records Act, for that matter, specifically says "There is no exception in the law for records of the governor." Yes, there are other exceptions, but it's hard to see Gov. Schwarzenegger as one of her personal advisers. And one ought NOT to be using Yahoo for government business at all.
Can you imagine if she was VP and sent Top Secret information there? I will grant that it's more shady and sloppy than anything. But I'd rather have careful leaders than careless ones.
That said, you're right that she's not hiding some major crime, just violating a few minor laws. So what I'm saying is that I don't trust her because of this.
And I will maintain again (lest someone read this and not grandparent), that the hacker here deserves punishment. I do NOT think he deserves any sympathy. He's a dumbass (which is why I don't believe that he knew anything about Alaska's Public Records laws).
To summarize:
* Palin is secretive and I don't trust her. I think her privacy should be respected, but I wish she wouldn't mix government and private business.
* She clearly breaks many minor laws, but apparently few major ones (I reserve judgment about Troopergate. That investigation was open long before she ran for VP and the guy who said it could be an "October Surprise" was just stating the obvious.)
* The hacker is an idiot who deserves punishment.
Exactly what is proof of that? Can you provide any evidence? Which email(s), *specifically*, are you referring to as proof? Or are you just pulling this out of a bodily orifice? To my knowledge, there isn't any evidence that Palin either used her Yahoo email account for official State business, or used the official government email system for non-State business.
Were you saying that you wanted something?
While that may be an article reporting it - there is something that caught the attention of the judge to require them to retain them.
See this one for the updated discussion.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.