Slashdot Mirror
99.8% of Gamers Don't Care About DRM, Says EA
arcticstoat writes "If you thought that EA might have been humbled by the massive Internet backlash against its use of SecuROM in its recent games, then you'd be wrong. Speaking at the Dow Jones/Nielsen Media and Money Conference, EA's CEO John Riccitiello claimed that the whole issue had been blown out of all proportion. 'We implemented a form of DRM and it's something that 99.8 per cent of users wouldn't notice,' claimed Riccitiello, 'but for the other 0.2 percent, it became an issue and a number of them launched a cabal online to protest against it.'"
If you query the number of gamers you have left, of course you're going to get a 99.8% figure. (Though honestly, that exact figure sounds like bullshit to me. Did you know that 85.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot?) The question is, how many customers have you already lost where DRM was a contributing factor? Of those customers, how many can identify DRM as the problem rather than stating "the game doesn't work"?
I almost guarantee that any study EA has done resulting in these figures was flawed. Based on his statements however, I don't think EA has done that research. Riccitiello pulled that number out of thin air. Even if EA did research that suggests that only 0.2% of users should have a problem, there's a huge gap between theory and practice.
I'm an example of a PC gamer lost by the industry. I used to read PC Gamer regularly, wait for the awesome new titles coming out, and get lost in the worlds of these games. Eventually I stopped and gave up on the industry. If you're interesting in why, here are the key points:
-- Lackluster games. The majority of games felt like regurgitated first person shooters. They were all the same with new skins. Hardly an interesting market.
-- Technological problems. There's nothing more irritating than purchasing a game or getting a game as a gift, then not being able to run it. At least two of those instances were clearly DRM problems. The games would not even start. No error, no reason, just fail. Tech support then explains some BS about having a CD Burner. Because, you know, those are so uncommon in computers. (This guy explains it WAY better than I can.) Not to mention the video card driver treadmill. Having problems with that game? Oh, well you need to update to Super Destructo Detonation Drivers version 34120123.1239213213 release 8231 patch -0123 revision B. It will make your system super-unstable, but your games will kick ass!
-- Time. As I got older, I simply had fewer hours in the day to game. I no longer have the time nor the patience to work around the previous two problem. So I just stopped buying PC games. Nowhere was there a concious decision of "screw them", it was simply, "This does not interest me anymore".
These days I have a console that lets me get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of the least possible time investment. Life is so much better than when PC games clogged my system's arteries.
In closing, I'd like to say this: History has shown that good games sell. Period, end of story. Piracy has always been and always will be a scapegoat for the real problem of poor quality merchandise. Implementing draconian anti-piracy measures will only drive away the few customers you have left.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
And he got his numbers from where?
--
Oh Well, Bad Karma and all . . .
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
Let's assume the statistics are actually correct. 0.2% don't want DRM, 99.8% don't care, and 0% are in favour. That should be enough of a message to realise it shouldn't be included. Especially when that 0.2% can damage the reputation of the game by giving shocking reviews all over the internet.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Because either 99.8% of gamers actually buy the games they play or 99.8% of gamers are confident in their russian software cracks websites.
I think I'd like to get some of what EA is smoking!
Everyone I know (if they know how to use computers or not) hates the DRM with Spore.
I'm on FIOS not cabal!
"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that."
Any life is made up of a single moment, the moment in which a man finds out, once and for all, who he is.
Most people don't even know what DRM is, so why should they care about it?
Badass Resumes
I'm pretty sure 100% of the users noticed the DRM when they had to type in serial number to activate the product.
most of them just forgot about it right after.
-I only code in BASIC.-
care. I'm expecting 499 other people to say they don't care.
If gamers knew that installing a game had a chance of damaging their CD Burner, or causing crashes in non-game activities, requiring a system reformat I bet they would care. As it is, they blame "computers" and do not care.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Now while I am one of the first who will tell you that personal experience doesn't equal empirical evidence, it isn't worthless in this case:
100% of the gamers I know (including me), which is quite a few, care about DRM. None of them like the "3 activations only" crap. Now it is always possible that I happen to belong to a really, really outside group, but not likely based on their BS statistics. If what they claim is true, you'd think at least one of the people I know, and more like everyone except me, would be perfectly ok with it. That they aren't says that EA's statistics are BS.
While I can perfectly well believe that most gamers are ok with DRM of some form, I'd bet almost none of them are ok with it when it interferes with their gameplay. Well, that's what these new DRMs are doing. The cause you to not be able to reinstall, they won't work with perfectly legit systems (Civ 4: BTS didn't like my DVD drive, and I don't even have any virtual drive software installed) and so on. Gamers care about that.
99.8% of me doesn't care about EA
Sounds like they're getting nervous, keep the 1-star reviews coming!
Red Alert 3 (upcoming):
http://www.amazon.com/Command-Conquer-Red-Alert-Premier-Pc/dp/B001F6HJIY/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087512&sr=8-2
http://www.amazon.com/Command-Conquer-Red-Alert-3-Pc/dp/B0016BVY7U/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087512&sr=8-1
Far Cry 2 (upcoming):
http://www.amazon.com/Far-Cry-2-Pc/dp/B000X9FV5M/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087659&sr=8-2
Spore:
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Mac/dp/B000FKBCX4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087603&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Spore-Galactic-Pc/dp/B001AYEGXM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1224087603&sr=8-2
Crysis Warhead:
http://www.amazon.com/Crysis-Warhead-Pc/dp/B001ATHKVC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1224087659&sr=8-1
Ya know, 90% of all statistics can be made to say anything...50% of the time.
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
I've been playing Spore quite a bit until this weekend, when it simply stopped showing any graphics whatsoever after updating my video drivers. Rolling back to the old drivers didn't help. So I tried reinstalling, and the game would simply crash.
After much futzing around and unhelpful EA support people basically reprinting their FAQ for me, page by page, I figured out the problem. I had patched Spore and uninstalled. But the DRM is never uininstalled, it lurks around forever. When I reinstalled the unpatched version from the CD, it was not what the DRM expected, and it crashed.
EA provides no way to download the patch without running the game, but I found the patch file on gamershell.com. Patching the game let it run without graphics again, and I switched to windowed mode (good like finding the key combo for that in the printed manual or help files) and checked out the graphics settings, uhhh, 170Hz refrsh rate, WTF? Setting it back to 75Hz allowed the game to run once again in full screen mode.
To reiterate: if you patch the game, uninstall, and reinstall the unpatched version, IT WILL NOT WORK, and the only component I can think of that would cause this is the DRM. Thanks EA, for making your paying customers prefer the pirated versions of your programs.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
99.7% of gamers don't know about this, .1% don't care.
Too true. (98.2% of our CURRENT customers love us. LOL)
EA Before:
"Hey Gamers, buy our wicked game because it's totally fun to play!!!"
EA Later:
"Hey Gamers, buy our new game because it has newer technology, better lighting, and it produces 100% more warm fuzzies than its predecessor!"
EA Now:
"Hey Gamers, bend over."
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
If 99.8% of the customers don't have an issue with the DRM (presumably they are not restricted in what they are doing), why have it implemented in the first place?
DRM has the purpose of restricting what one can do with a digital product - be it a game, a song, whatever. If no-one ever runs into those restrictions, it's been a waste of effort. However if the restrictions are tight and many people run into them, they are presumably effective for what the manufacturer wanted, but will result in customers trying to circumvent it as they want to do things they are not allowed to out of the box. Such as making a back-up copy.
So either DRM is a priori ineffective (restrictions so loose no-one notices them, so there is no effect of the DRM) to prevent complaints, or it is effective in restricting people but then will guaranteed result in protests and circumvention, rendering it ineffective after all.
These days I have a [Wii] console that lets me get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of the least possible time investment.
What do you do when you want to play a game that isn't on the consoles? For example, a lot of indie games are PC exclusives because the developer isn't a big enough company for a WiiWare license.
History has shown that good games sell.
Even good games from small companies?
They got replaced by USNORTHCOM.
In other news, 99.8% of gamers are playing pirated versions of their games.
I recently learned from experience, when I could no longer play Command & Conquer 3, which I'd bought from the EA online store. Suddenly, and without warning, the EA Download Manager said that I could no longer play, as I'd "installed it on 3 machines." I'd done no such thing.
Ultimately, the problem with DRM is that you really are renting the software, as the owner has the right to revoke your license at any time. However, the price of the software is not reflective of it being a rental. If I could rent C&C for $5/month, I'd have no complaints. At $50, I'm sure not going to buy another EA game for a long time.
EA can live in their alternate reality bubble all they want, but there is no way that 98% of gamers support Digital Restrictions Management.
Maybe it hasn't hit most yet, but their recent egregious DRM that limits the number of re installs does (as it will inevitably happen) it sure as hell will piss people off.
Corporatism != Free Market
Hey. At least they didn't outright call us pirates. Actually, come to think of it, they probably wanted to say pirates, but couldn't because 0.02% goes nowhere near explaining the level of piracy they like whine and bitch about.
on the side claiming to be adversely affected by DRM.
I put a lot of them down; and I mean a large percentage; to those just hopping on the band wagon. The "got to get my two cents in and feel as if I belong" crowd. Cost them nothing to claim to be part of the aggrieved party. It wasn't like they were going to buy it anyway but now they can claim offense which lets them continue feeling put down by the system/man/the other guy/etc.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
EA has literally saved me hundreds of dollars thanks to their absurd DRM approach. Instead of buying BioShock, Spore, Mass Effect, etc, I've been able to pocket all that cash. It basically boils down to this: No one tells me how many times I can install something on my computer! How many times a year do I reinstall my OS? No one takes control of my computer and shuts down programs I'm using! Get a clue EA.
72.8% of all statistics are completely made up.
Duh 52% of all people know that.
My girlfriend uses iTunes to buy music. I tried to explain to her why buying DRM'd music is a bad idea, and how she might lose it. As far as she's concerned, she can download it and send it to her iPod, and that's all she needs it for.
The only part of it that she found annoying so far is that she couldn't transfer music from her laptop to her AppleTV, so she couldn't listen to it when her network was switched off.
Apple has proven that if DRM doesn't interfere with the way ordinary users expect to use a product, people will put up with it. It's the same with DVDs.
However, if DRM does prevent an ordinary user from doing what they expect to with a product, such as preventing them from ripping music CDs, then that product will probably not sell.
This space left intentionally blank.
Population as of 16:26 GMT (EST+5) Oct 15, 2008 according to census.gov
Assuming everyone in the world is a gamer, it would take 13,460,606 people worldwide speaking out against this to prove that statistic to be incorrect.
Assuming the same for the U.S., it would take 610,836 people speaking out against DRM to prove that incorrectly.
I'm sure that a significantly powered site spread to Slashdot, Digg, Reddit, Stumbleupon, and Facebook would probably demonstrate 610,836 people against DRM with no duplicates.
It would be even easier if we assumed that only 50% of the US plays video games. Only 305,418 people would have to sign it. That's probably how many people visit Slashdot a week.
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM
But in ten years time when they want to show their children/spouse/friends/whoever (or play it yourself) that funny game from ten years ago, and are unable to do so because they can't activate it... THEN they'll mind.
EA is just hoping that none of them is getting that knowledge beforehand.
When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
that's only true 87.43% of the time!
Case and point! And to further build on that flawed math, allow me to 'Bushify' it: 99.8% of the gamers do not care about DRM and the other 99.8% play cracked versions. Thank you Mr. President.
...you must not want your game to become popular, right?
Imagine 5 years later your game is still very popular, but how can a DVD survive for more than a few years?
Blizzard did the right thing in removing the disc requirement in some of the recent patches of Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3.
I still regularly play Warcraft 3 with friends, everyday now. Good games last for decades, not years.
Ff there is a DRM'ed game, expect the publisher means that it's kind of rubbish and you will not want to play for more than a few years. And think twice before spending money is buying a DRM'ed one.
What do you expect EA would tell a bunch of Wall Street types? "We screwed the pooch and a bunch of people went after us for it" or "everything is fine, we're a great place to send your money!"
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
I said I wasn't going to buy Spore before and I'm still not buying it now because of DRM. How "blown out of proportion" is that?
(Just another elitist CEO spouting off who doesn't have a clue.)
I guess the margin of error on that report is about 99.8%? Have they taken a look in the forums? Tons of people are having problems with DRM on specifically EA's games. Of course they're going to come out and try to dispel all that to try and change the focus of their customers, as if to say "It's not a problem, what are any of you complaining about anyway?" Well sorry, that's just not the reality.
EA has made it clear beyond any reasonable doubt. They barely care about games They barely care about gamers They barely care about their employee's They focus almost exclusively on maximizing profits, diluting every aspect of games until it is stripped down to a bare minimum value. What you end up with is a roadblock to progress, a poison to the industry and game lovers alike. EA is like Midas in reverse, and games makers can't resist the bucket loads of money. Don't buy EA, and they will go away. It's time to bite the bullet and stop this monster we've created.
my experience with EA DRM when I purchased Black & White 2, (it wouldn't install, because there was something on my system it didnt like) was a definite factor in me not buying spore.
Who needs 3 installs for Spore when you basically can play the game only twice without being bored?
The game was touted with tons of customizable features... few of them having anything to do with game play.
Wow! I can download tons of imaginative designs for buildings and things, and no matter which one I choose, they all do the same thing.
A DRM issue like this is only a problem for a game like StarCraft or Counter-Strike that people will be playing (and reinstalling) for ten years.
That's not to dilute the point that Bad DRM is... bad. It does illustrate the point that most people don't care about DRM, until they actually get bent over by it.
EA should really hire real statisticians.
I don't care whether or not EA puts DRM on their games...I just won't buy them.
And EA doesn't care whether or not I buy their games...they just sell to other people.
The world is *full* of games, and there isn't a single one that I can't live without. Seriously. There is already more novelty and variety in the gaming world than I will be able to experience in my entire life. So this DRM silliness doesn't impact me (nor should it impact anyone, IMO, but some people have some weird addictions I guess).
From what I have read, Spore is kind of a crappy game anyway. Very little replay-ability. They are probably right that most users won't need more than five installs of the game....I would be very surprised if most users need more than two. Once they play the game through they aren't ever going to want to install it again.
"One of the 2%"
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
99.8% might not notice DRM, but at least some of them have no clue of computers anyway and ask their "computer guy" what this DRM thingy is. I bet there are quite a few "computer guys" out there who don't recommend buying DRM.
I guess if you want to consider console owners gamers....
There is a war going on for your mind.
My DVD drive hasn't worked in a week and half, despite repeated tweaks and reinstalls. While mucking around on my drive last night, I found a directory called SecurROM. No frigging idea where it came from. I don't know if this is just a coincidence or what, but if I delete that directory and my drive suddenly starts working again then I'm going to do two things. First, I'm going to torrent a copy of Spore. Second, I'm going to track down an EA executive and punch him in the cock just as hard as I can.
it's something that 99.8 per cent of users wouldn't notice
Dear EA,
By the time you start gathering stats from users its already too late. What you should be asking is how many potential users you lost due to the DRM. And you can knock it off with the users too, we are your customers. Try to remember that.
Is not a failure to have a problem caused by DRM that users DO care about. Most people don't know that DRM is the source of so many problems.
I won't believe EA's statistic until they turn over information on the number of support calls they get that are related to DRM versus other software defects. I'll bet the DRM issues are far higher than 0.2% of their calls. And that's just the people who called rather than downloading the cracked version to solve the issue.
In their (EA's) mind if DRM actually prevents piracy then isn't the lost business of the anti-DRM cabal a small price to pay?
If that is the mindset then perhaps advocates should present a different argument against this form of DRM
"Statistics can be used by anyone to prove anything...40% of people know that" - Homer J. Simpson.
"0.2% of Gamers are too stupid to operate BitTorrent!"
Good games do sell, but sometimes not as well as they should, and thus not enough (in a perfect market) to encourage good games get made.
Take Thief. That was an awesome game, and apparently also massively pirated, being a first person game with no multiplayer. The company went bust, but deserved to be wearing money hats for making an awesome game. That's a net loss for gaming in general.
And take "world of goo", an awesome game, that (like mine) ships totally DRM-free. It's pirated to oblivion, and they are no doubt losing tons of sales.
Contrast this with cheap movie tie-in games. They sell tons, based purely on hype, to people who have no idea about the more obscure, but better games. So we get more crap movie tie-ins and sequels, and less cool stuff like World of Goo.
Piracy hurts the industry big time, because it removes vital signals from the market. The games that get made are the games that sell. However much you like a game, your view is irrelevant unless you buy it, because we live in a capitalist free market, where profits determine what products get investment.
Short summary: don't pirate games. It is self defeating. Especially if you pirate games you really like.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
Sounds like Saddam election results to me.
This is totally wrong. The only people who don't care about the DRM are kids - because their parents shell out all the cash for the games. For me it's a huge issue, because half the games I play are old games that are no longer produced. I'm sick of paying for half-assed re-releases of these games that I must pay full price for, even though I already own a broken medium with the version I want. I don't even like the "upgrades" they make to the game. When I buy a game, I should own that content, and I should be able to copy it to different media as many times as I want to preserve it. DRM is a perfect example of where capitalism is not working. The consumer no longer gets to decide because all companies enforce the same policy.
how people feel about copying? When they're the only guarantee you have of being able to play the game in eighteen months time, the 'pirates' become heroes to us, hardly the perception you'd think they'd be going for.
I actually bought Spore, but have no plans to play it uncracked any time soon. EA's playing the part of the enemy, by sitting between great developers and myself and poison coating what the developers make.
I guess the SecuROM campaign is part of why I've heard assurances lately that Fallout 3 will employ minimal copy protection.
It's not like even the most heinous rootkit would prevent me from waiting a week and downloading it, and I'd probably buy the game anyway unless there was a privacy concern. But I do feel it cements my decision to buy the game. You never know, it might be so good that I'll keep playing it ten years later, when the original studio may be long gone and the IP sold of. Just like Fallout, and SimLife, and System Shock 2.
99.8% may not care about DRM if directly polled, but do they also not care about the opinions of their geek friends, and the negative reviews they read on the internet? Negative press can be a powerful thing.
You folks are all thinking "Computer Gamers".
EA just said "gamers" and while I also think that 99.8% number is a bs out of thin air statistic, you have to consider what other gamers are out there.
Like Xbox 360. Wii. PS3. Every other console that EA makes games for.
These sort of have DRM as you can't exactly stick a Wii game in an Xbox and work it etc... So the MILLIONS of games sold to all those consoles (and likely older ones) are undoubtable being used for their DRM numbers.
Remember using statistics I can make data prove pretty much anything I want if I omit enough "unneeded" information.
Well EA is probably even considering board "gamers" on every licensed offering they have, or perhaps real "gamers" that play a sport that may use some piece of EA DRM merchandise. :)
Or perhaps 99.8% of EA's remaining customers didn't notice. The ones who did, are now furnishing stats to EA's competitors, rather than to EA.
It's like taking a poll of Blu-ray users and concluding that most movie watchers don't mind Blu-ray's fuckedupness. The sample is so biased, that you can't conclude anything.
s/gamers/developers
Too many people are seeing what happens when a company goes under & you no longer have the right to access to what you bought.
Too many people want to retain the right to resell, or give the game away when they are done.
Too many people don't want to deal with the hassle of waiting two hours on hold for someone speaking "English as a Second Language" to find out "why is my game broken?"
They just want to play the game out of the box... no hassles, no worries, no games -- other than the one you paid for.
gamers includes pirates, and pirates care about DRM for slightly inconveniencing them or delaying them getting the game for a few days. If 1/2 of the people who care about DRM are pirates then .1% of sales are lost to piracy.In that case why bother paying for DRM? or why complain about piracy so much?
That number is a fabrication.
That part of the anti-DRM argument, though philosophically valid and justified, isn't really going to get much attention in the 12-25yo market that makes up probably the same 99.8% of their revenue--and always has. Not to mention, with all the online components of games, people are pretty used to the idea of "server goes down, game dies" not to mention the idea of paying for it more than once and the obvious fact that it is eventually just going to go away.
They just download it.
I do care. I resent the implication that I'm either a pirate or stupid.
I must be one of those who care able DRM. I recently bought Mass Effect, before I was aware of its draconian DRM policy.
I started the installer, and when the End User License Agreement came up I decided to read through it.
In the end, I decided I couldn't agree to their end user license agreement. I tried to take the game back to the store. Unfortunately, the clerk behind the counter refused to allow me to return the game because it was open software. I told her that I couldn't read the license agreement until I had already purchased (and opened) the software. She was polite but unsympathetic to my plight. I asked her to get me her manager. She returned (without her manager) and said her manager told her she cannot accept open software.
I told her that should would then have to go get her manager because I need to know who it is who is refusing my legitimate refund. I explained that when this went to court, I would need his name and position in the store. She returned (again without her manager). She proceeded to hand me a business card with her manager's name on it, and a phone number for the company's customer support number.
Not being one to give in too easily, I sat down on the bench by the refund counter and called the customer support number. The man on the phone was also rather polite as I explained the situation. He looked up the receipt number, and through checking my credit card (I'm guessing) explained to me that I had quite a purchase history at their store and very few returns. He saw no reason why the store couldn't handle the refund and asked me to hand my phone to the sales representative.
The sales representative balked, and claimed, "I don't want to get into the middle of this." and wouldn't take my phone to talk to the service rep. I asked her to get her manager.
She left and returned (again, without her manager) and explained to me that her manager refused to talk to me because I threatened litigation. So, I explained this detail to the person from customer support with whom I was still conversing with on the phone. The customer support person chuckled, and said he could do the refund through the corporate channels, but unfortunately it would take a couple weeks for the processing to go through. I said that was unfortunate but acceptable. I asked him if I should hand the game to the lady at the customer service desk. Then the guy said, "No, that won't be necessary. Just take the game home with you, don't tell them what we have done for you, and consider it a gift from us."
Sure enough, 2 weeks later I got a gift card for the exact amount of the game + tax. I'd be a little disappointed about being refunded in store credit versus a return credit on my credit card but I do tend to buy a lot from this particular store so I decided to let it go.
I'd like to comment the only downside to this is that it is unlikely EA will every find out about my dissatisfaction with their EULA and DRM. Chances are the company ate the cost themselves, and they will never find out about it.
In the end, I was happy with the result from the company. I decided to install the game, since I have less of an issue with DRM and Freeware.
For the record, Mass Effect kicks some serious ass. I'm actually glad I got to keep the game.
I'm guessing 99.8% of people whose computers are in botnets also don't care because they don't know.
Exactly. I'm guessing 99.8% of people whose computers are in botnets also don't care because they don't know. This does not make botnets a good thing, nor mean that those people would be happy if they discovered they couldn't use their Internet any more because the ISP cut them off.
One need only look at the response to recent attempts to close down some music DRM authentication servers to see that when people are informed about their purchases and the limitations concerned, they most certainly do not support DRM. It's just that most people assume when they buy a track that they've bought it and can keep it. I bet most people who buy games assume that having done so, they can play it forever, too.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
No, everybody doesn't know that. It's been shown that 3.6% of all people don't believe any statistics, regardless.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
... losing that 0.2% in revenue.
.2% that were upset?
This is a ridiculous statement. Would they have really increased the number of activations from 3 to 5, and started work on a deactivation tool if it were only
EA is continuing to treat it's customers with a profound lack of respect, and they show no signs of humbling themselves. I don't care to pay them for that abuse. Sorry EA, I'm done. Come back when you actually appreciate my business.
(PS - What do you think the odds are that they only said they were doing a deactivation tool to placate the masses? That they're not doing a thing on it?)
87.9% of people who play EA games are people who buy Madden v X.y.Z and call it a quality game. So yes if you like polling the lowest common denominator of gamers for your opinion on what gamers want then sure. Your "facts" such as they are presented... are fine.
If EA wants to stub their own big toe stepping on their customers like this, I applaud it. Anything that scares customers away from such a SHAM of a gaming company, and helps move the money towards more deserving companies is fine by me.
And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious!
99.8% of EA's normal audience, or 99.8% of everyone who plays any game from hardcore XBox 360/PS3 gamers, to Wii bowlers, to online flash gamers? The demographic is key to that statistic.
that 99.8% of people download the game and the crack...
Obviously he pulled the numbers from his nether regions. He's simply not asking the right people. No one I know is thrilled about DRM and nearly ALL of them have had issues with it mucking up their systems at one point or another.
When I heard Spore was coming out I was pretty excited - I wanted it! But their Creature Creator thing refused to install for me and then I found out about the DRM - no sale. It got better, the girlfriend's daughter was raving about this kewl new game she'd played at a friend's house - Spore!
I then carefully explained that while I thought it was a really neat game that I didn't approve of the way it burrowed into the computer's O/S and that I wouldn't be purchasing it for them to install on their computers either. She was disappointed but once I explained my objections she accepted it. A real shame too since for kids I think this would have been perfect, oh well! DRM ruined at least two sales right there, possibly more since in this home each child has their own computer. It really did sound like a fun game too. If they reverse their decision and do something to neuter or remove the DRM I'll sign up for it, not till then...
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
is that 99.2 percent of gamers that purchased their games? I didn't purchase spore precisely because of DRM. I purchased a console system to avoid much of the interference and madness that these varying 'harmless' DRM tools can cause as my last game PC was also a machine that I use on occasion to pay the bills (banking and working);
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
EA misread the report. The headline should be 99.8% of Gamers Don't Care For DRM
FACT: DRM on games (PC, console, whatever) WILL slowly destroy the game discs and cause you to lose your investment in the game. DRM is a scam to cheat customers out of extra money for the games they buy.
The act of playing a disc scratches it. If you're required to leave the 1st disc in their drive all the time eventually it will become so scratched the game won't run anymore and the consumer will be out $50. And no, the publisher won't usually replace the disc for free. You'll, at best, have to pay a fee (at least $20 nowadays) to get the disc replaced. Most of the time the publisher will simply not respond.
This is the whole purpose of "backups". To protect your original disc against scratching. This was absolutely vital on the Playstation 1, which scratched the hell out of discs. Most older copies of Final Fantasy VII are completely unplayable for this reason.
I'm willing to say that the only reason almost ALL PC gamers don't use the cracks is because many are not aware of them. If the cracks sites were advertised on Gamespot, for example, and they were marketed as "game enhancements" not "cracks" I suspect you'd see a lot more people using them.
It appears that the attorney's at Girard Gibb's group are gearing up to file a class action suit against EA / SecuROM. Kind of blows a hole in the only .2% of a problem with DRM.
http://www.girardgibbs.com/Securom.asp?_kk=securom&_kt=da55bb6d-29cf-4c4d-bbac-e9bc8fff6b6a&gclid=CI385_3bqZYCFQOjFQodZwn6xw
~^\-/^|-|^\-/^~ May the force be with me!
Last I heard, Spore had 700,000 copies downloaded by those who openly refused to buy the game for its DRM. If that makes up only 1/500th of Spore's final distribution, then they must have sold 3,500,000,000 copies! That measures out to about $150 billion in sales. So what they are calling a "lukewarm reception" is only 17 times greater than the entire video game industry generated in 2007. I think their numbers are solid.
I am the richest astronaut ever to win the superbowl.
"99.8 percent of Americans don't care about the Iraq war", says President Bush.
XNA lets you develop and publish games on the Xbox 360 for $100/year.
I've looked into XNA and found that it doesn't really work with any language other than C#, just as J2ME phones don't work with any language other than Java. How should game logic be written so that it will work on multiple platforms, even those that have disjoint sets of available languages?
He thinks we free software enthusiasts haven't got the intelligence, the numbers, the persuasiveness to compete with his proprietary games. He couldn't be more wrong. The future of gaming is free software.
Freedom is free.
No one cares, until they spend 60 bucks on a game and find out of the blue it doesn't work one day. They do a patch one day and your game that worked fine stops playing because of some setting on your router and it takes months to resolve the issue. That's what happened to me with Half-Life 2 through Valve's Steam platform. Look how happy the Wal-Mart drm music buyers are. If that's not an argument against DRM I don't know what is. They must have thought, "It's Wall-Mart, the authentication servers will always be there." I know they got a reprieve but how long will thst last.
Most don't care about anything until it affects them personally.
So there will be no big deal about windows authentication until someone hijacks the Microsoft DNS record and invalidates a whole bunch of machines.
People will not care about DRM on music files until the DRM servers disappear and the music stops.
In general while it works most people will ignore it. When it fails people will start to pay attention. We are still in the "happy" time for DRM where most people have not had a failure. That will eventually change.
I expect federal legislation within 10 years to disallow DRM of any sort. This will be brought about due to a number of large and significant failures of the system.
A cabal?
I thought it more as a clique, or perhaps a legion. Not a cabal.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
This EA guy is acting foolish to insult our intelligence. He thinks we won't convince our gamer brethren to turn on his little gaming empire? He should be really thrilled to be getting such revenue for a bunch of proprietary, DRM-hobbled games. Picking a fight with free software activists who already have set our sights on the gaming industry is just dumb.
Freedom is free.
The bottom line is that companies make statements and decisions based on figures, and the obvious logical problem is that you can't calculate the number of lost sales so EA just ignore it. (Actually I was looking forward to buying Spore but didn't, only because of the DRM, but EA will never know that).
Having said that, no statistic where people and choice are involved at all is ever as high as 99.8%, people just aren't that conformist in anything. Even a CEO should know that. So his claim is a strong indicator that he's just outright lying and saying what he wants people to believe, rather than what he actually knows is the truth. He is the CEO of EA after all, so he has to put on a good show for his shareholders and can't ever admit to making a bad decision if he wants to keep his multi-million dollar performance bonusses.
If you're deeply concerned over $60.00 and you have time to finish a game in 2-3 days, I'd recommend getting a job.
Every message board I am on with gamers is flooded with rage over this. It is not from 0.2% of the gaming population.
Bioware forums (recently taken over by EA) have 50 page+ threads devoted to this outrage. With ZERO supporters of this.
EA is continuing to mistreat customers and belittle their concerns and this only feeding the movement against them, this is like the Sony Rootkit without the mea culpa.
EA seems to be under the assumption that their customers are idiots who don't know how to get DRM free versions. The industry as a whole has been training us for years to do just that. They survive largely on goodwill.
Goodwill that EAs practices, and poor customer treatment is being evaporated.
Going to Update my Sig now.
When a company is using the word "cabal" to describe its customers, it has bigger problems than the exact percentage of customers that are unsatisfied.
It's sad, but people tend to forget our history and what we're actually supposed to stand for. Back in 1773, our forefathers weren't fighting for intellectual property rights as they threw cases of tea into the Boston harbor. It seems that every industry is finding more and more ways to be un-American in their business practices. They are limiting their customer's freedom in the name of piracy, but it's really all just based on fear - fear of lost profits and fear of losing control. They are trading your freedom for their security, because you cannot have both.
I've played World of Warcraft, Eve Online, and Warhammer. I loved Counter Strike and Day of Defeat. I play games. It's what I do instead of watching television. I paid good money for those games and I paid good money for Nero. Let me share something with you: I own a DVD player, but not a Blue-ray player. Curious why not? One word: Rootkit. Remember in 2005 when Sony did that? I do. Do you remember why? Yeah, an attempt to enforce DRM on paying customers. I was considering Spore, but decided against the purchase after reading your response to concerns raised by paying customers. Notice I said paying customers, not pirates. I recently canceled my subscription to Warhammer. I like the game, but why would I want to give you my hard earned cash? Yes, you might deliver another decent game in the future, but I guarantee that you will attempt to deliver a better DRM. I spend about $100 dollars a month on games. Yeah, it's not a lot but it keeps me out of the bars and out of jail. You may not care. If you don't then I feel sorry for your shareholders. I represent $1200 dollars a year in revenue and potential profit. Respectfully, Donovan
WiiWare licenses apparently cost under ~3k. I can see that killing a solo-hobby-developer, but any entity big enough to call itself a small business can afford this.
I am a solo hobby developer wanting to start a small business once I have a working prototype of my next project. Where do you suggest I turn next?
That said, I have never played an indie game that needed beta drivers, had crazy drm, or was otherwise particularly difficult to install and get running
And I think I know why: low-budget games tend to contain less-detailed (often even 2D) assets, meaning they don't have to push the video as hard as the higher-budget productions do.
At this point nothing of the propaganda generated by EA surprises me. Lets not forget that this is the same company that calls Selling of Used Games a 'Critical Situation,'. Apparently reselling used games is a danger for the business and their profits.
From my point of view crap like this and maleware like DRM software is the true danger to the business. I love computer/video games; and I want to give my money to companies that provide me with entertainment. But this type of policy makes me feel like I am under suspicion for just thinking about buying their product. I can't be bothered selling my old games; though I might give them away if a friend asks nicely.
Since I was a teenager I have exchanged console games, music, books and VHS/DVDs, with my friends. If they give me music I like I buy the record. Though with movies and books we usually just pass it around within our group. Computer games we buy individual copies since we are into Multiplayer and like to play online. However the increased crap thrown at us by the industry has made us reconsider, we have actually returned to our board game roots (or at least playing more board games these days); while there are several factors for this; the draconian rules and stupidity by people like EA is a subject frequently re-visited. Somehow we feel like we are betraying our own principles by buying EA products almost making us consider piracy just so we can play without SecurROM infesting our computers. In fact I know people that have bought games only to download a version of the web for just this reason (not to mention installing and running and image from your Hard-Drive is a tad faster than by CD/DvD).
To conclude; the true treat to the industry and video games in general comes from customer hating companies like EA. Not only are most of the products hyped and pushed by these people crap; we practically have to prove our innocence every step of the way when you want to play one of the products. Even going so far as to installing stuff on your machine that could lead to crashes and sapping resources.
The Long Now Foundation
John Riccitiello doesn't really know what gamers want. He just knows what he offers them.
additionally, are console gamers included in that 99.8%?
The market is changing and Riccitiello can laugh all the way to the poor house.
Unless they lobby congress to force us to buy his product like movies and music.
ESAA ??
They're using their grammar skills there.
Let's assume that in fact this statistic is accurate (I know, I know, a rather absurd assumption.) There's a statistic that MUST precede this that is conveniently absent: how many gamers know what DRM is? It's easy to get lost in the echo chamber here on /. and assume that DRM is as well known as Santa Claus, but among non-techie gamers it's just so much alphabet soup.
Why do so many of these non-tech people not care about DRM? I suspect two things are going on here.
1) They can't tell a DRM-related issue from any old computer problem. Pretty self-explanatory really.
2) Not enough time has passed yet. If a game gives you five installs, you are almost certainly not going to use them all at once. This ridiculous finite install scheme is still very new, let's say eighteen months old (I don't remember anything big using this prior to Bioshock, and that was just over a year ago, but I'll give it a bit of slack). For the non-hobbyist gamer, who doesn't upgrade components but rather just buys a whole new rig every three years or so, the DRM is still invisible outside of actual software problems. Uninformed hobbyists (who didn't know about the DRM) will likely start hitting these limits within a year or two, but the majority of the market will start hitting their install limits later than that, probably more akin to seven to ten years (assuming the activation servers remain online).
In other words, this type of DRM will remain "unobtrusive" for the masses just long enough for the jerks responsible for it to make their mint and jump ship. Seems awfully convenient to me. I guess I'm going to either have to play console versions of these games if I want to own them properly or forgo them altogether. It's a shame since I was really looking forward to Red Alert 3 too.
I think shareholders should file a lawsuit against EA for falsification of public announcements.
If you meet the customer's requirements, at the price the customer is willing to pay, when the customer wants to buy, you get the sale. The customer may be unhappy with something you do, but if you meet their requirements, they'll still buy.
There's two sides to this.
1. If most customers don't care *enough* about copy protection, even if they're unhappy with the copy protection, they'll still buy, and put up with it. For you, this is as good as "they don't notice", but thinking this is the *same as* "they don't notice" is dangerous. Because...
2. If you think they don't notice, and you can toughen things up until they start bucking you (because when they start bucking is when you decide they do notice), you're very likely to hit a tipping point. Maybe not this time, but some time. Sony, for example, keeps failing to figure that out. They've lost market share over and over again to products that don't have the same kind of tough DRM they put in to protect their media branch.
So instead of going "customers don't notice", thank whatever you hold holy that the cabal was able to make you aware that some of your customers at least DO notice, learn from that, and treat the dissent as a valuable "canary in a mineshaft" instead of the enemy.
well, ea won't be getting any of my money. DRM for games is self defeating, and I will never allow secure rom or similar on any machine i control. So i won't be playing any ea games. If the only way to play a game w/o securom is to download an unauthorized copy, then the sites that offer those rips are going to be getting a lot of traffic. If EA can't understand the implications of their customers risking breaking the law in order to play their games without their intrusive drm, they deserve to go out of business.
I managed to receive a full refund from EA on my purchase of Spore, so I'm happy.
And to top it off, the Canadian dollar has plummeted lately so my refund amount actually worked out a few dollars higher than the original purchase, so it's almost as if I made money playing the game for a month.
I hate this drm crap and I for sure would love to buy red alert 3, heck I bought Bioshock even when my own pc couldn't run it!(ddnt knew about drm that time, or I might thought that one better). But guess what I now know, and as soon its released, maybe even before Ill be playing it (red alert 3 that is) and I will have none of that drm sillyness on my pc, oh and the game wont come from store either.
That is why 99.8% of my games don't come from EA. It all works out.
~~ Behold the flying cow with a rail gun! ~~
Is that the only people who ACTUALLY ARE completely unaffected by DRM are the people who are ACTUALLY PIRATING. I've bought games straight-up...any game that I feel is truly ground-breaking I fork out the dough for. Crysis, Oblivion, Thief, are all examples of titles that I felt were good enough to BUY. Ho-Hum titles, I've downloaded, and I must admit that, in the end, I end up applying "pirating" methods to my "legal" games ANYWAY. "Please insert DVD/CD", screw that, I'll just crack it to shit. Maybe game companies should learn from this. I don't think it really matters what kind of protection your put in-place, someone is going to find a way around it. Look at SecuROM and the activation for Windows Vista, the latter was certainly touted as being unbreakable...but...
It was sort of the other way around for me.
I got tired of console games that were buggy/poorly tested etc. and could NOT be patched. I was stuck with the first release version.
PC games at least gave me the aftermarket to fix problems with a game. When I could get inside them, or utilize cracks or whatnot, I began to see more cost value in a PC game. Yeah, I realize that in a perfect world, the games should be perfect on release, but they are not. For that simple reason, I choose to buy a product that at least gives me some latitude in making the fucking thing work to MY liking.
Revolutions are started by a small group of people and spread through the masses because they make the message clear. It doesn't matter if it's 10% or .2% of the gaming community that cares about the DRM, that community has flooded the Amazon reviews with negative responses to DRM and will continue to do so. 99.8% of gamers might not care about DRM now because they either haven't heard of it or they don't know the details, but once a person who does comes along and actually explains it to them, that's another person for their movement. DRM is an intrinsically odorous concept and is only put there to help companies and take away consumer rights. The only way to get widespread acceptance of it is to make it supply a benefit for it instead of limitations. This is why Steam is doing so well. People actually LIKE Steam's DRM because it makes it a lot easier to transfer games between computers.
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
I was a former PC gamer (and C64 gamer) from decades back. A few years ago I gave up completely on PC gaming and went to console. The biggest reason for me was resale value. I will pay $40+ for a game knowing that I can beat it and resell it for $25+ a few weeks later. However, many PC games are coming as permanent items. I bought HL2, and am now stuck with it. Tied to my steam account, too much hassle to try and sell it, and no will (or time) to play it again.
I want a game I can pop in, play, remove and sell/lend to others. PC gaming used to be that, now they industry is changing PC gamers into their pawns. They've justified the position by saying "Oh, look at all these mods, you'll never want to sell the game! You'll want to play it forever, so we'll just pull your ability to sell it later." And, sure enough, many gamers are looking at modern games not for the out-of-box experience, but heavily for the modding capabilities.
99.8% of hardcore gamers didn't notice the DRM ... whilst the other 0.2% ate the questionnaire believing it to be a hot pocket.
So far they have only had the activation DRM on a couple of big games. Wait till they start putting it in every game and then see how many people complain.
And how many of those dis-joint platforms share the same number of screen resolutions, the same number of sprites, the same screen refresh rates, the same the same the same number of whatevers ???
In a model-view-controller design, things like screen resolutions, display list limits, and (to a lesser extent) screen update rate are part of the view. Things like gravity, movement speed, weapon recoil, collision detection, and event triggers are part of the model, and I would like to reuse the model with as few changes as possible so that strategies for one version of the game work on the other versions.
Constant annoyance with DRM, buggy software, windows bloat, etc just suck the fun out using my computer and playing games. So these days I might buy a game a year at best. Usually the experience of having it not run out of the box, having to download the upgrades, punching in the CD-Key (if I'm that lucky), shaking my head at the EULA, then finally getting to play it just isn't fun.
Topping off the experience is usually crappy performance, since I haven't upgraded my machine in the last few months, so I get annoying frame rates. Once I get online, of course everyone else has better machines, lots of cheats/hacks installed, so I just run around getting the crap blown out of me. Wheee!
Overall, solitare has the best fun to BS ratio of any game on my machine...
> EA Now:
> "Hey Gamers, bend over."
I KNEW we should have done something to stop Romero at the time...
I'm another person that moved off the PC to consoles, as much due to social reasons as anything (playing with friends on the TV is just nicer)
For under $200, you can get set up to play PC games on a TV. Plug four $20 Logitech gamepads into a $20 USB hub, and run the PC's video output through a $10 VGA cable into an HDTV or through a $40 converter box into an SDTV. Load up a game, and you're set.
All these statistics prove (assuming they're even true) is that 99.8% of people don't know about the DRM or the ramifications of it. It's like saying that because 90% of people are ignorant of the fourth amendment to the constitution, nobody needs to be covered by it.
Educate those 99.8% of people as to the ramifications of various types of DRM as well as the history of DRM abuses by corporations and that ignorance will give way to an educated frustration, outrage and boycott.
Now, allowing multiple simultaneous installations and REVOKING/RECOVERING installation tickets when you remove an installation and install somewhere else is fine, as far as I'm concerned. I'd prefer there be no type of DRM whatsoever since I'm a paying and honest customer. What I can not accept are the original Spore limitations, which were "you can install three times. EVER. Combined. Period". There was no refunding of installations if you uninstalled from one machine.
That's a load of rubbish. If gamers didn't care then game crack sites wouldn't be so popular. Fewer people would be pirating games and let's face it torrent users aren't some niche market.
I think someone's study was pulled out of their backside.
*takes it off*
okay, I was going to try to make some connection between ea trying to drive off PC gamers to make those users who game on windows game on consoles instead, opening up the linux/unix/osx market, but I just can't do it in good faith. Too ludicrous
So, if I want to play Counter-Strike, I and my friends really should buy guns
You could. Real-life first-person shooting with non-lethal guns is considered a sport in some circles, with over 1.5 million regular players in the United States alone.
I don't know about Thief, but I've been following 2DBoy since first hearing about World of Goo a couple months ago, and they've been very up-front about deliberately avoiding DRM to make things easier for actual end-users. And they've posted on their blog about how happy they've been with the results of opting out of the DRM insanity.
Comment posting history aside, Cliffski's GP post is poorly misinformed at best, and it does seem to lean in the trollish direction...
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Nobody asked either myself, or any of the approximately 250 gamers who I work with.
We all hate DRM.
Since they never bothered to post a source of the information, or a citation to any study, one can only assume that they mean that 98% of their current customers who they asked & got a response from said that DRM is not an issue.
I'm pretty sure more than .2% of EA Game users pirate their games, and that they care about DRM.
don't care that 99.8% of gamers don't care about DRM
82.4328% of gamers think EA is full of shit.
This is like saying 99.9% of US residents didn't care to sign the declaration of independence...
I wonder how many percent they would lose when they take into account the people who cracked the games to not check?
And how many the would lose if they asked people who play, say, Crysis, heavily.
I have a friend how calls himself a geek (a sure sign on non-geekness) who is a self-pronounced spore addict. (Spore is regurgitated Sim*. I know this from BitTorrent) He doesn't know what Linux is and swears by the Holy Father Bill Gates that Apple will die. Yeah. He answered the poll.
The other friend just recently got bit in the @$$ by DRM when he tried to install Crysis on his 3rd rig. He builds computers for fun and is constantly reconfiguring them. Until that happened, he wouldn't have cared. Now he swears by the Power of Tux (the only truly DRM free that DRM will die.
They apparently didn't ask me. Maybe they discarded almost all results that contradicted what they wanted as incorrect.
---
I am no 1337 g33k. When I can rebuild the linux kernel to run on my latest gaming rig and build the drivers for my just-released gfx card from scratch without the internet, then I will be a g33k. Just not a 1337 one.
Id like to start by saying I have not been one of those raising their voices to high heaven about this, but this has changed my mind.
I just cant believe the nerve of this guy. It just shows how profits matter more than the opinion of the people playing his games. I think that says that its time for him to step away from the games industry, as its fairly obvious hes got no connection to actual gamers, and hence his customers, anymore.
Despite his figures, which have no evidence and sound typically press released, there is no doubting that there will be a large group of people (including me now) who will refuse to buy another EA game until this DRM is done away with. I dont mind CD/DVD protection at all, so long as the following conditions are met:
a) I can be guaranteed that I play said game in 50 years time with no problems.
b) The installation program does not install rouge drivers and stealth programs onto my system. I have control of my system, not you EA.
c) Internet connectivity should NOT be required to play a single player game.
Address the above, and assuming you attitude to gamers has changed somewhat, and I will consider buying your games again. Until then, I will look elsewhere. The indy game dev crowd looks quite good at the moment.
Good to know that I am one of the 0.2% that didn't buy SPORE because of it.
99.8% of Gamers Don't Care About DRM, Says EA - Which must be interpreted as priacy is down to .2% - The industry can once again be prifitable :o)
Where in the HELL did he get those statistics?
And WHO is he trying to convince?!?
I know over 100 gamers, his numbers would inticate that only 20% of ONE of those hundred would disagree with DRM...
Only ONE WHOLE gamer out of a thousand cares about DRM?
Most definitely talking about customers left over, and I would not necessarily categorize them as gamers.
LOL What a f*cktart
Well... that is your answer to us, your customers with concerns about the DRM?
Perfect! I decided to not buy anything with DRM ever again in my life, but this kind of answer shows that EA doesn't care about its customers... so, I'm cancelling my purchases of ANY game from EA until those bastards change their mind.
I think that 99.8% of customers that have concerns about DRM will not buy from you. Hope it hurts in your pockets.
Recave
Assuming this "99.8%" figure is accurate, consider this. 90% of the world was unaware that the holocaust was going on, but that still didn't mean it was ok....
Note: I -do- buy non-drm mp3s from amazon, etc. The last three albums I've bought have been online, and in a free non-drm format. Before that was available, guess what ..I used bittorrent. But, if I know I want some data, and want to support it, I'm happy to pay for it. It's not like I'm some unethical bastard.. I believe that the often large amount of work that goes into producing art certainly does deserve to be rewarded.
But, if I'm a bloody PAYING CUSTOMER, than don't try to cripple or hassle me when DRM and rootkits. Otherwise, I'm inclined to look elsewhere. I mean, seriously! Where is the rational motive in making the legit payed product inferior to the cracked version?!?
---
the pen is mightier than the sword, the sword is mightier than the court, the court is mightier than the pen.
99.8% of EA customers don't care about DRM :-D
Confusing 'users' with 'customers'.
It's like you sell elk urine as a perfume, and claim 99% of perfume users love the elk urine smell.
Nope.
99% of perfume users hate elk urine smell and don't buy it.
The 0.99% who buy it and love it are weird perverts who feel turned on by the smell.
The remaining 0.01% are clueless morons who didn't know what they are buying.
Yep, from people who -bought- the game, possibly well over 90% don't know and don't care. OTOH the rampaging piracy is in a major part influenced by DRM. If they surveyed -users- and not just -customers- they might come up with a totally different number.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
99.8% of Gamers Don't Know About DRM
fixed.
not only is time travel possible, it's irrelevant.
"We implemented a form of DRM and it's something that 99.8 percent of users wouldn't notice," claimed Riccitiello, "but for the other 0.2 percent, it became an issue and a number of them launched a cabal online to protest against it."
He's not saying that 99.8% don't care, he's saying that 99.8% won't "notice," by which i assume he actually means "won't notice as long as our DRM servers are working 100% of the time and SecuRom doesn't fuck up anything on their computer."
In saying that his statistics are probably correct. I expect that 99.8% of the users are not going to try to install the game more than three times. I expect most people will install it once, play it for awhile and then forget about it. The problem is that more than 0.2% are probably going to be affected by issues involving their DRM server at least once, and more than 0.2% are going to have problems because of SecuRom, and a lot more than 0.2% object to the install limits or the presence of SecuRom (or both) even if it wouldn't directly affect them. (And in the case of SecuRom aren't willing to try installing it to find out.)
So he's not saying that 99.8% of us don't care, he's claiming that under ideal circumstances only 0.2% of us would actually experience problems, so any complaints from the other 99.8% of us are irrelevant and/or blown out of proportion.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Its fact. EA is just another giant company that runs on bullshit. They also said today that their attempt to buy out Take Two, was out of "charity."
Give me a break EA. PC gaming is a dieing market and it has nothing to do with piracy.
You really want to help the industry EA? Start spreading some of that wealth for real charity... lower the price of your games, pay your developers more and stop raking in the profits at the cost of the slave wages and 24 hour work days that you put your employees through.
I'd be happy if EA just once released a game that wasn't bug ridden and useless for the first few days or weeks until they start patching I wonder if there crappy DRM has anything to do with there games barely working..
I've already had pre-DRM copy protection bite me in the ass. The Wheel Of Time game doesn't work in either of my laptops. I own the game, I have the original CDs, but I couldn't get it to play because of the authentication scheme on the disc.
So I downloaded a crack online, and now I don't even need the CD to play the game.
Charles.
If anything, DRM offers an incentive to pirate.
Buy a game and you have small but real chance of going to DRM hell. You also cannot sell your game second hand, and after a while it will no longer be supported and you won't even be able to use it. Add to that DRM has a higher chance of causing the game to fail completely when you try to use it on future operating system versions (or even just driver versions).
Download a cracked game and it's yours for ever and you can install it anywhere anytime. You're also incredibly unlikely to ever get caught.
I've also come to realise that DRM is not about piracy, at all. No it's not. Infact it's obvious: It's only about shutting down the second hand games market.
If a geeky 13 year old pirates $1,000 worth of software, there are no real sales lost because it is something he wouldn't have otherwise purchased (or been able to). But because every second hand purchase wholly or partly replaces a brand new sale. This money is denied from the bottom line of the big companies.
A sucess story like Steam has not only completely prevented the second hand trade of games like CS and HL2 but also prevented these games from being pirated. The pawn broker I used to work at had blacklisted a number of these games from their shelves because of the number of refunds we had to give out. (I also notice you cannot hire these games in the few stores that hire out PC games. Interestingly 2 or 3 of the rental stores I know of that have PC games haven't procured anything new since the end of 2006, is there a war on PC Game rentals too?).
Any industry would LOVE to be able to legislate out the second hand market for it's produce, and believe me they do try. But they'd never get away with it, we'd be rioting in the streets. Yet this is what is happening here.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
I bought the creature creator and was also going to get Spore for my daughter. After I read it had DRM I opted against it. I guess I'm part of the .2 % that EA will never see a dime from. Thanks EA!
I Didn ot care SQUAT about DRM EITHER until...
My game did NOT RUN and I was able to trace it to SECUROM messing with my CD drive on the old Impressions game ZEUS.
Tech stupidport suggestions
Update your BIOs
update your CD drive FIRMWARE
Update your VIDEO
Buy a new CD drive
Replace the momaboard
Buy an NEW COMPUTER.
Its not US is YEW!!
Uhgh right --eat mustard roll in ketchup and set fire to yourself THE ZUES DEMO RUNS FINE!!!
I guess in that regard i'm like a Hollywood actor who takes up a cause only after they or their loved ones gets that disease.
But EA's version is idiotic.
Maybe they should say that a large percentage haven't noticed their DRM *yet* but when you limit the number of installs, your customers will notice it eventually.
.
.
The Amazon.com Best Sellers in PC Games [4 PM ET - Oct 15]
1. WoW: Wrath of the Liche King
2. Fallout 3
3. Spore
7. Fallout 3 Collector's Edition
8. Fallout 3 $120 Amazon.com Survival Edition
9. Far Cry 2
11. Dead Space {EA]
16. C&C: Red Alert 3
19. FIFA Soccer [EA]
20. C&C: Red Alert 3 Premier Edition
21. SIMS 2: Apartment Life
26. Crysis Warhead
39. The SIMS 3 [February Release]
So behold the power of the Geek in Mob Force:
"The Great American Poop-Out."
No one is listening, no one gives a damn.
You flood a forum you debase a forum until no one takes it - or you - seriously.
99.8% of individual gamers... but what percentage of sales?
Assuming blindly that statistic has some fact to it (which it doesn't), I would bet that 2/1000 gamers outspend the average for the group 10 to 1 at least. Considering anyone who's bought a game once in the last 10 years but is still playing it once every 6 months is probably considered a gamer... you could believe it if I sad those few gamers who care about DRM are very important customers.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Unfortunately the quotes may offer an insight into the mentality of much of the industry (EA itself counts as a significant portion).
Firstly, it's clear the "statistic" is pulled out of thin air, it has no basis in fact. However he apparently believes quite strongly that it is true anyway - with sufficient confidence to recite it to this conference.
Secondly, the negative feedback he is getting he believes to be from a "cabal". That's quite a striking description. Normally I would expect PR-massaging tones such as "unfortunate and understandably upset customers". My interpretation of cabal is in line with the following from Wikipedia:
He apparently believes quite strongly that in fact a tiny proportion of users would even notice the DRM, and any indications to the contrary are conspiratorial lies. This is an insane position. The only silver lining is the possibility that he is having to adopt such a stern position in response to pressure - just maybe the DRM criticism is working after all.
I declare BullShit! First of all I am not part of this .2% cabal - I use a wireless connection.
Really though I hate DRM, hate it with the fiery hate of a million supernovas. I paid for the game (you think I have a license, but I PAID FOR THE GAME) and then EVERY SINGLE TIME I want to play it I have to find the CD or DVD and put it into my CD/DVD tray. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...the guy who stole it doesn't even have to do that.
So this statistic is BullShit. The wrong question was asked the right way to manipulate the "outcome".
DRM effects EVERY legal gamer, EVERY time they play a game they notice it.
I don't understand - So if 99% of gamers don't care about DRM and buy and install the game, how the hell is piracy a problem in the first place?
Multiply 0.002 with the number of sales EA got, now that's the quantity of customers that EA officially acknowledged has screwed up with no regret.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
Many developers simply put the latest (and untested) drivers on your workstation, write games using this workstation as "default" and simply do not care about the litte problem of normal user using a "main production" driver.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
I wanted to buy Red Alert 3... I've been replaying CCRA2 + YR and it's great. But I really don't want DRM crap. So I have decided not to purchase CCRA3.
I have had too many problems with DRM in the past. Legit DVDs not playing because of a "DRM issue"? WTF!? CD-ROM and DVD-ROM games taking hours to install, with the drive clanking and clunking away the whole time (when it has no problem with regular discs). Games stopping functioning because of software on my computer that they don't like? (That happened to me, and I didn't even have, nor had I ever heard of, the software in question (DAEMON Tools). All their DRM did was direct me to it.)
I go away to work for a month at a time, where there is no internet. If a game won't run, or a movie won't play, I'm screwed. It has happened to me, and I am not going to tolerate it any further. DRM on a product = no sale.
They always seem to be able to count the losses to piracy. I've never heard them count the losses due to not purchasing due to DRM. So I suppose in order to be counted, I can't just not buy it...
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=964
When Coca-Cola was developing New Coke, they found that only 11% of the people were opposed to the new product. However, it was a vocal 11%, and the dissent spread. EA may be facing a similar situation...
Or, another way of looking at things: If EA truly believes that DRM isn't turning off gamers, why did the CEO feel the need to announce that 98.8% don't care about DRM? They're afraid, and rightly so (I hope).
Well, as with all statistics, it's not a lie, just a creative interpretation of the numbers.
I'm fairly sure 99% of the gamers that actually bought Spore were more or less Ok with the DRM. That is, if you ignore the loads and loads who, after learning about it, decided to not buy it at all.
Sure, count those out and you get a very small percentage of naysayers.
And, for the record, apparently I'm in that 0.2% because Spore was on my buy list until I learnt about 3 activations and SecuROM.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
This reminds me of the Sony CEO talking about how "most of our customers don't even know what a rootkit is" so much. Come-on guys, stop being evil and treat your customers like the have brains.
GCS/MU/P d- s:- a-- C++++$ UL++ P+ L++ E+ W++ N o K- w--- O M+ V- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5- X R++ tv+ b++ DI++ D++ G+ e++ h-
So 99.8% of gamers don't mind DRM. I do, and that's why I don't buy their games. I do buy games, and music too, but only in non-DRM formats because I think I should be able to do what I want with what I buy, and that doesn't make me a pirate--it makes me an informed and careful consumer and as long as EA and others are going to accuse me of being a pirate for feeling this way, I'm going to continue to revile them for their consumer-unfriendly ways. (as an aside, in the case of EA specifically, being a software developer and knowing exactly the sorts of things their preferred DRM mechanisms do, I simply don't feel comfortable installing anything on a computer that takes that sort of control.)
Our greatest enemy is neither a single man, nor is it a nation, it is, as it has always been, our own greed.
99.8% of motorists don't care about the rising cost of fuel, says Shell.
99.8% of women asking for it, says rapist.
99.8% of imprisoned dissidents happy with the state of their cells, says Chinese government
..... and SOME non-pirate gamers care about it, then 99.8% of gamers don't pirate, and the DRM is pointless anyway.
Gee, more whining about DRM and how it broke your hearts. Quit gaming, quit computing, and join a commune. I'll deal with DRM when it affects me - not because it might affect me.
I will never purchase another EA product, and I will tell friends and family not to do so either. Ran into a situation with Spore where they assigned the DRM key that was printed in my manual to another user the day before I purchased the game.
Their solution was to have me go through the hassle of returning a game with open shrink wrap to an on line retailer that I purchased it from.
Their mistake, and they made it my problem.
The right answer should have been "We are sorry for the inconvenience sir, here is another key".
I am taking it to small claims court. This will eat any profits they could have possibly made on my sale.
Exchanging the software requires effort and no compensation to me.
Small claims court allows 100% compensation for my efforts.
It's their product -- they're welcome to stuff it full of all kinds of copyright protections and DRM for all I care.
But it is my money and my purchasing decision. It's the last real power consumers have.
In the final analysis I don't buy products (games, anything really) that incorporate DRM -- so the problem is solved on my end.
There isn't a single piece of software or multi-media like product that exists which I feel is more important that my personal freedoms.
It's kind of simple when you look at it that way.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
You can put your SNES carts on your Wii by re-buying them cheap from the Nintendo Wii store or for free by downloading the Homebrew Channel. The Homebrew Channel has lots of emulators.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
until it stops them playing a game. Then they get really pissed off
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
EA has lost me as a customer, not solely due to their DRM policies & systems, but rather their poor quality of product. I purchased the game Spore, trusting that it would be a good entertaining title for weeks on end. Note that, I got bored of it in the first week and haven't run it since.
There can be no excuse from any one in EA that can save them from losing me, a valid "loyal" paying customer, or to change my mind and give them the time of day, let alone another dollar, ever again.
I now go out of my way to say "Don't buy Maxis or EA products, their games are shit." suggesting other games for friends and family to buy. If you're looking at buying a good game, why not check out Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 from Atari? This game doesn't even have a serial number and can be bought for a bargain price at any store, brand new. I still keep coming back to this title after YEARS of playing it. Sure, it's not perfect but at least it's fun!
Hell, I still boot up classic titles such as Bullfrogs Theme Hospital, but look where a lot of those developers, programmers and managers ended up.
Um, normally i don't post and this would be my first time posting a reply to an article here one Slashdot.
I figured I would weigh in my two cents on this topic.
Where i tend to agree with most of what i see here, i think that most people go about bringing it up in the wrong matter towards the companies.
Rather then send out e-mails, post scathing rants or down reviewing games, those against DRM should send a nicely written snail mail letter to the companies leaders or stock holders.
The letter should have a well stated argument that shows that all the money they are spending on this top of the line copy protection does little to prevent people from circumventing it, a brief how-to would greatly add to this, and how it is just harming the paying customers.
Any rants sent in this matter would just harm those trying to remove DRM since most people tend to disregard them, or they tend to stereotype a group of people.
Calls to Customer Service agents and e-mail are easy to ignore, and they only see the cost of having CS agents on staff.
Also it passes through various levels of staffing before someone in power gets to see it.
Where as if company leaders received enough real letters from their customers they might rethink their stand point on the subject and have enough power to do something about it.
I think the whole world works on a big version of the telephone game, unless you directly state your stand point to a person it gets garbled on the way to them.
because they thought that the issues they experienced were 'something to do with the computer' and just ditched playing the game.
you aimed for sims/casual gamer crowd with spore. you got that crowd. that crowd is not tech savvy. if they experience repeated issues with a game, they just ditch it, instead of going groveling at your tech support numbers for a fix.
Read radical news here
I'm sorry all I read there was: "99.8% of all people who actually bought Spore can't pirate software!"
Doing a survey AFTER you lost the ones that are concerned about DRMs would give similar results to this one. EA should have done this survey BEFORE implementing DRMs.
that's fine, but you won't get my money.
expandfairuse.org
My case was similar.
In my case my DVD Drive (Sony-never buy that), refused to read Spore disc. However hard i tried, i could not get it to read it.
I had bought a package deal: Spore+Sims2=$45 I had installed Sims 2 without issues. (I also installed Crysis without issues).
I tried it on my Mac which was able to read, but not copy files off the disc.
Emailed EA about this and they asked me to try it elsewhere: did the same got the same result. They then asked me to exchange it with the vendor. Obviously vendors don't take back opened game packages; a fact lost on EA.
Came back to EA crying, and all EA could say was "Sorry!".
Meaning they are sorry am a loser and am out $45. But they can't refund the amount.
I downloaded the image from torrents, burned it on to a DVD, installed it with my original key and today am playing.
I mailed EA that i was "helping" them obey laws by forcing to perform their end of the contract by downloading and installing Spore.
Look EA: Your support is fast, and your games are good. But if you have DRM, we WILL pirate it.
Look at Stardock: No DRM, and i bought original games BECAUSE i liked them: Heck i don;t even play their SoSolar Empire or other games: But i still bought them to show them my support.
Spore is GREAT, avoid DRM and you are Great too!
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
how hard is it to emulate console hardware and use the disc for console on the computer?
EA's statement is like saying:
"99.8% of Jews like being kill, Says Nazis"
"99.8% of Americans like a corrupt government, Says U.S. Government"
"99.8% of Chinese like an authoritarian dictatorship, Says China Govt."
"99.8% of executed like dying, Says Executioner"
"99.8% of taxpayers Don't care able the $700 Billion going to the already rich, Says Already Rich"
Seriously this guy is starting to look like the most out of touch incompetent halfwit I've seen blundering around at the head of a company. Not since Sculley at Apple have we witnessed such a fucktard pretending to know what he's doing.
99.8% of EA is wrong, says me.
It's really quite funny, copy protected content continues to sell sell sell. In fact, even back in the days when Copy II PC was used to copy pretty much every copy protected disc on the market, people still copied copied copied.
But, guess what? This video game industry still exists and is still growing all these decades later. You know why?
The game companies are still selling shit loads of copies even though everyone is pirating.
I have a prediction. 50 years from now, there will still be game publishers making lots of money. Piracy or not.
DRM is the #1 reason I don't purchase music, books, movies, or software from offending companies.
I have sworn off purchasing any of the SIMS2 expansions containing SecureROM, and I skipped out on buying two copies of Spore for my wife and I as well, despite both of us wanting to play it. From the way EA is talking, looks like we won't be buying SIMS3 either, which is a shame. I don't partake in the Netflix streaming movie option. I avoid e-book publishers who lock down their formats, and I have stopped purchaing from I-tunes. Maybe the trickle of my money going to vendors who care about my stake in product ownership is too small for EA to care about, but it still means something to me.
In related news, 99.8% of people don't plan ahead or read
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
interesting to note the use of the words "wouldn't notice"; people not noticing DRM has nothing to do with the issue
someone not noticing you taking their rights away doesn't make it ok
I have I, II and III as well as the adventure development kit.
I think it's on floppies 'tho.
I'm going to look when I get home. They will all run under XP (although you'll wish you had a turbo switch), so maybe Wine will work?
Now where did I put those maps/wheels?
Disclaimer:IANAL/MD/PhD-Just the local yokel PC "doc" ~If you're not having fun, then you are probably doing it wrong.
All I was trying to say is that if one is taking their impression of pc gaming by "what I hear on the internets" they may be getting a biased sample.
There are people for which PC gaming works just fine - but you won't hear them as often.
That was my only point.
Why, yes I have been touched by His noodly appendage. And I plan to sue.
News at 11...
It's not that the study was made up, it's just that the questions they asked were very carefully written to get the answer they want.
Choose One of the following:
1. I don't care about DRM
2. I'm a criminal who makes illegal copies of games. Also, I kill kittens.
I would have said that 98% of all gamers don't care about EA now. They make the odd came that sells well, but is that based on past glories or the lack of anything kick-ass out there.
if 99.8% of gamers don't notice it, that says to me its not needed at all.