How To Enter Equations Quickly In Class?

AdmiralXyz writes "I'm a university student, and I like to take notes on my (non-tablet) computer whenever possible, so it's easier to sort, categorize, and search through them later. Trouble is, I'm going into higher and higher math classes, and typing "f_X(x) = integral(-infinity, infinity, f(x,y) dy)" just isn't cutting it anymore: I need a way to get real-looking equations into my notes. I'm not particular about the details, the only requirement is that I need to keep up with the lecture, so it has to be fast, fast, fast. Straight LaTeX is way too slow, and Microsoft's Equation Editor isn't even worth mentioning. The platform is not a concern (I'm on a MacBook Pro and can run either Windows or Ubuntu in a virtual box if need be), but the less of a hit to battery life, the better. I've looked at several dedicated equation editing programs, but none of them, or their reviews, make any mention of speed. I've even thought about investing in a low-end Wacom tablet (does anyone know if there are ultra-cheap graphics tablets designed for non-artists?), but I figured I'd see if anyone at Slashdot has a better solution."

Comments

LyX

[sl3xd]

I used LyX quite a bit; the equation editor is pretty quick to work with (better than MS Equation Editor or similar addons).

LyX is generally much faster than straight LaTeX - and there's a much shallower learning curve.

Additionally, LyX works on pretty much whatever platform you want to use.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

LyX is really cool, I also recommend it for this kind of task.

Re:LyX

[gardyloo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve#Common_terms

      You'd think that people would learn that language isn't always sensical, and that terms may have multiple --- even mutually contradictory --- meanings. Hope that's not too inflammatory a hope.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Claim you have a disability and get the university to pay someone to write all of your notes.

Re:LyX

[Volante3192]

'Steep learning curve' goes both ways.

I'm more familiar with it being used in the sense as it refers to the curve you have to climb, hence a 'steep' learning curve has you start on ground level and then climb the face of El Capitan to get to the top. Wiki says it started your way, but current usage is more often the way I see it.

Maybe we should just drop the saying all together and stick with "easy to learn" and "complex to learn"?

Re:LyX

[Steve Franklin]

Yes, indeed. Actually, it makes perfect sense. "Steep" is a metaphor based on climbing a hill, where the steeper it is the harder it is to get to the top. Does this really escape some folks?

Re:LyX

[thethibs]

That's all right. They also think that a "quantum leap" is really big.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Steep refers to the ability to be productive vs. time. If you can't be productive until your good, something like piloting a helicopter, the learning curve is steep. There is a point when your productivity makes a large jump. A shallow learning curve is something like python: productivity grows with knowledge. You never have a large jump.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I get really annoyed by people who don't know the difference between a metaphor and an analogy.

Re:LyX

[Abcd1234]

I get really annoyed by people getting this the wrong way around.

And I get really annoyed by people who think language should work the precise way they feel it should work and no other.

A "learning curve" is conceptualized, not as a graph of knowledge versus time, but as a graph of knowledge versus *effort*.

So if something is difficult, to learn a little you have to put in a lot of effort. Result? Steep learning curve.

Re:LyX

[BetterSense]

I'm a graduate student in physics and my friend started using started using LyX to do class notes and even homework. I've used it too and still do for very math-heavy homework and so on. It's very readable compared to handwriting, you can cut and paste, and it's not significantly slower. I still do a lot of analysis on paper with a good fountain pen, but I always have to rewrite a final, legible version anyway, and LyX is very easy and my professors love it.

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

Even though we both have similar concepts of what the learning curve is referring to, I think the GP's interpretation is backwards, at least from a user interface design perspective. If the learning curve is steep, that means you learn a lot at the very beginning, which means that you have to learn a lot just to get started. Otherwise, you wouldn't have bothered to learn all that stuff up front. Thus, a steep learning curve means that the UI is relatively hard to learn, even if it doesn't take you a huge amount of time.

The ideal learning curve for software is actually fairly linear; the amount you learn at the beginning should be minimal because the UI should be discoverable enough and familiar enough (relative to other software) that you don't need to learn anything of substance to start using it at a basic level. As you get into it more, you should continue to discover things that make your life easier.

Just my $0.02.

Re:LyX

[BradleyAndersen]

Yes, well then what place would pedantic pricks have in our society, if not to sit around on their perches proclaiming others inferior, using their amazing and great wit?

Re:LyX

[neonv]

You're plotting you're learning curve differently then other people. Most people think of this as the amount learned per task. The number of tasks is the x-axis, the amount of information required to learn the task is the y axis. For each task, a certain amount of information is required to complete the task. A person must learn that information to be able to complete that task. For easy tasks, the information required is low, hence the slope of the curve is low. For difficult tasks, the information required is high, but still only one task, hence the slope is steep. A steep learning curve means the task requires a large amount of learning which is the reason most people say steep learning curve.

I believe you're using the x-axis as time, which isn't how people usually think of it.

Re:LyX

[friedo]

It took me lightyears to explain that to someone.

Re:LyX

[thrillseeker]

you must have infinite patience.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong

Re:LyX

[ReverendLoki]

Since the term Learning Curve can refer to either the rate of learning or the effort required to be invested to learn a skill, it could go either way. Unfortunately it lies with the author to clarify, or at least offer clues in his or her work, how it is intended. Very few actually do.

Wikipedia, as always, has more on the subject.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

The true learning curves....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23579228@N04/2335016192/

Re:LyX

[amicusNYCL]

I've always read it the other way, a shallow learning curve is a lower barrier to entry because you can do a lot with a little knowledge - I see the curve as the amount of knowledge required to do certain tasks, so a shallower curve would equate to less knowledge required for more tasks (X axis = tasks, Y axis = knowledge required). A steep curve that shoots straight up means that you need a lot of knowledge to accomplish most tasks.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

But steep is also the other side of the hill, as in "I really like going down really steep hills on a bike."

Steep is an extreme rate of change/slope/derivative and doesn't indicate the direction (positive or negative).

Re:LyX

[sl3xd]

A great example is the phrase "going downhill"

ie. "It went downhill from there."
Can mean:
1.) The situation was bad, and worsened over time.
2.) The hard part is over, and everything fell into place. (ie. things became better/easier with time)

The problem with self-appinted grammarians tends to be that they are ignorant (willfully or blissfully) that "correct" English grammar depends on the particular dialect used. What may be correct Grammar in one dialect is subtly incorrect in another. In a global environment such as Slashdot, posters are often berated for using grammar and idioms that are correct for their dialect of English.

No spoken language is set in stone - they evolve over time, with phrases often acquiring meanings opposite of the original.

Re:LyX

[eric6]

The saying makes sense if you get the axes right (it's not "time" over "stuff learned").

X is "things you're able to do" and Y is "what you need to learn". In other words, a tool with a steep learning curve requires a lot of learning in order to do basic things.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

"User Friendly"? Some software isn't "User Unfriendly". It's just very particular as to who it's friends are.
You really shouldn't discard a piece of software just because the learning-curve is "steep".

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I have used LyX in advanced mathematical courses such as quantum mechanics and relativistic electrodynamics. With the help of the copy-paste function I found that I could type the equations faster into my laptop than my classmates could write them onto paper and so had a little more time to think about them and ask questions.

LyX is very easy to learn for note taking as you type stuff like:
CNTL-M \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \alpha(x) dx
and get instant pretty graphical equations.

If you need to draw pictures, however, you will need a tablet or pen and paper.

Hope this helps...

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

there's a much shallower learning curve.

I get really annoyed by people getting this the wrong way around. If something's easy to learn, it has a steep learning curve: your ability rises rapidly over time, repetition or whatever your measure of effort is. If something is difficult, it has a shallow learning curve: your ability increases slowly against time, repetition or whatever. Yes, I know ``steep learning curve'' sounds all difficult and stuff, but you'd expect that Slashdot readers would at least think about that particular metaphor a little more carefully.

fail.

Re:LyX

[Z1NG]

I also use Lyx. It is pretty fantastic. As is, it is already a bit quicker than straight LaTex, and you could try making some keyboard shortcuts to speed things up more.

Re:LyX

[DrMaurer]

Hmm, interesting, because I always thought of it as steep==hard. Because it's hard to move up a steep incline. Of course, it's a cliche, which is nothing more than a metaphor which has had all it's meaning ripped from it....

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

Some people might think that. It really means that the jump is very sudden, regardless of how big it is. That said, by definition, most sudden jumps are big, or else we wouldn't perceive them as a jump, so that's not a particularly surprising interpretation. And in a relativistic sense, a quantum leap of an electron is fairly large... compared with the size of an atom, that is. Not huge, but certainly not tiny.

Re:LyX

[Mr. Slippery]

If something's easy to learn, it has a steep learning curve: your ability rises rapidly over time, repetition or whatever your measure of effort is.

No. The notional "learning curve" people are talking about when they say "steep learning curve" is not a plot of how ability varies over time. It's a plot of how much learning is needed to reach a level of competence. A task with a steep learning curve requires you to learn much (plotted on the y axis) before you can make even the smallest amount of headway (plotted on the x axis).

Re:LyX

[BitZtream]

You problem is that you've configured the graph differently than everyone else. Difficulty on the vertical access, ability on the horizontal. Thats why a 'steep learning curve' is hard.

You seem to be using ability on the vertical and time on the horizontal.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

So
Can one of you semantic fanaticals tell this guy how to quickly get the formula for a learning curve into his computer? I mean, it seems like you guys got off on a tangent and started going in circles. I half expect to see people throwing Pi at each other now.

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

I've found that, assuming your professor is okay with it, bringing a digital camera with a good zoom lens and shooting pictures of the board as the professor writes on it is the fastest way to take notes. We do this in meetings at work for the same reason. Alternatively, professors who use electronic slides can provide a copy of them electronically, removing the need to waste a lot of the students' time hand-writing copies of the same content unnecessarily. We don't live in ancient times; we aren't training scribes here.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Well here's no problem... your interpretation of the phrase makes no fucking sense to anyone else. The other is easy to relate to a common task like climbing a hill.

Two rises. Both are 20 meters above you. The first rises 1 meters per cm of horizontal distance. The second rises 1m over every 2m. Assuming you are an average human with no mechanical assistance, which rise will take less physical effort to ascend? Which can be done quicker?

Your interpretation seems to imply that horizontal movement is more difficult than vertical movement. Generally that is not the case.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

flip the axes and it works the other way, ie if your ability is on the x-axis and tim is on the y axis, then something that is difficult has a steep learning curve.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Swap the axes and then it makes perfect sense dumbass!

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

It's literally worse than cancer and Hitler combined.

Re:LyX

[lithis]

I second this. If you don't know TeX math commands, there are toolbar buttons, menus, and dialog boxes for everything. But once you do learn the commands (and the TeX commands are listed in the menus and appear as tooltips over the buttons), you can just type them. So instead of pressing the subscript button, you press _ and the display switches to subscript mode. Instead of clicking the sine function, you type \sin. Instead of clicking the fraction button, you can type \frac.

Also, text entry is pretty easy. For example, after creating a fraction two empty blue squares appear--the numerator and the denomerator. Focus is in the numerator, and you can press Tab to switch to the denomerator. Pressing the spacebar exits the fraction, putting the cursor just after it.

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

And if you want a specific recommendation that works very well, any of the Canon Digital Rebel series with an 18-85mm lens are great choices for that. Pricey, but priceless.

Re:LyX

[ngileadi]

Clearly, the x-axis is the amount of knowledge accumulated and the y-axis is the total time spent so far.

Re:LyX

[CecilPL]

A quantum leap refers to a change that's so significant that it doesn't bear any resemblance to the previous state of affairs. That is, it went from state A to state Z without crossing the intervening (state) space.

Hence, quantum.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though we both have similar concepts of what the learning curve is referring to, I think the GP's interpretation is backwards, at least from a user interface design perspective. If the learning curve is steep, that means you learn a lot at the very beginning, which means that you have to learn a lot just to get started. Otherwise, you wouldn't have bothered to learn all that stuff up front. Thus, a steep learning curve means that the UI is relatively hard to learn, even if it doesn't take you a huge amount of time.

The ideal learning curve for software is actually fairly linear; the amount you learn at the beginning should be minimal because the UI should be discoverable enough and familiar enough (relative to other software) that you don't need to learn anything of substance to start using it at a basic level. As you get into it more, you should continue to discover things that make your life easier.

Just my $0.02.

As an audio engineer who also teaches beginners how to compose on the computer, I have to say that Apple GarageBand is the closest thing to this "linear learning curve" in a UI I've ever seen.

It's easy to get started on a basic level of simple loops, and GarageBand '08 and later have (tucked away under the hood) all the advanced features you need to make a good-sounding original recording if you know how to use them.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

He/she/it's not arguing the common usage of the phrase.

He/she/it's saying that if you graph ability on the y axis and time on the x axis, then the curve of something that is hard to learn is shallow.

Of course he/she/it completely misses the point that all you need to do is put time on the y axis and ability on the x axis to make the expression match the graph.

Re:LyX

[Facegarden]

there's a much shallower learning curve.

I get really annoyed by people getting this the wrong way around. If something's easy to learn, it has a steep learning curve: your ability rises rapidly over time, repetition or whatever your measure of effort is. If something is difficult, it has a shallow learning curve: your ability increases slowly against time, repetition or whatever. Yes, I know ``steep learning curve'' sounds all difficult and stuff, but you'd expect that Slashdot readers would at least think about that particular metaphor a little more carefully.

I'm gonna go with what other people are saying and say that to me, "Steep" sounds harder.

So don't get so annoyed about people misunderstanding something when really it might be you misunderstanding it.

Most people don't actually think about a plot of amount learned versus time invested, they think "steep is hard".
You've got to understand people to understand a language.
-Taylor

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

What I advise is taking pictures of the blackboard from time to time.
Teacher spends energy drawing pictures while you focus on listening and watching.
And then you take a few pictures with a good zoom.

If you want you can then share your pictures in exchange for your friends' notes (in digital format of course)

Re:LyX

[commodore64_love]

>>>>> there's a much shallower learning curve.
>>
>>I get really annoyed by people getting this the wrong way around. If something's easy to learn, it has a steep learning curve:

I get really annoyed by people who get really annoyed about English idioms - especially when they're correction is wrong (as you are here). A steep learning curve is if I cracked-open my Calculus textbook and tried to teach it to my 6-year-old niece. For her it would be like trying to climb the side of a mountain.

A shallow learning curve is if I asked her to learn the ABCs. Since she already know them fairly well, obtaining proficiency would be as easy as walking-up a wheelchair ramp. Easy learn == shallow slope.

Re:LyX

[SunTzuWarmaster]

I've seen it done. In fact, my fiance volunteered to be a 'note taker'. Twice per week she would make the arduous trek to the copy machine followed by the 5 minute walk to give her notes the the note-taking people. She got paid to go to class.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

A steep learning curve means something is hard. The x-axis is ability, the y-axis is time. I don't understand your annoyance, especially because you seem to be unaware of the common usage of the term.

Re:LyX

[cynyr]

you are plotting the wrong things, try "getting something useful done" on the X and "amount of learning needed" on the Y.

Re:LyX

[Brian Gordon]

LyX is great but why does it have to use qt? The interface is cluttered and ugly. Unless there's a really compelling reason, I don't use qt apps on my Xfce (GTK) system..

Re:LyX

[Spykk]

I think what we need here is a visual aid. The black line is an example of a steep learning curve.

Re:LyX

[noundi]

Yes, well then what place would pedantic pricks have in our society, if not to sit around on their perches proclaiming others inferior, using their amazing and great wit?

Either way it is pretty important that we're on the same basis when we communicate, otherwise it is pretty useless to do so. Call pedantic or whatever you want but it is valid as long as it prevents confusion.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

      You'd think that people would learn that language isn't always sensical, and that terms may have multiple --- even mutually contradictory --- meanings. Hope that's not too inflammatory a hope.

Good point. For example, although the word "nonsensical" is still used, "sensical" isn't a word (at least in current usage). I have looked previously for it, but to no avail.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

How is that insightful? if anything it's short-sighted. (see the other AC reply)

Re:LyX

[jellybear]

I agree. The X axis is usage time, but also the amount of stuff you have gotten done on the road to knowledge. A shallow learning curve means you can actually get a lot of work done before learning very much. The Y axis is obviously your knowledge of the system.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're thinking about it in terms of a graph, the difference is really in which axis you "travel". Generally in math you travel the x axis, but when people think about learning curves they're thinking more like traveling the y axis. Consider this view:

Imagine a graph of y = log(x). Think of the x axis as the user's ability to be productive with the software and y as their knowledge of and/or experience with the software. When "traveling" this graph, you travel along the y axis, because it's your knowledge and experience that increase. So a log(x) graph is a steep learning curve because you initially require a lot of knowledge and experience to get even a small amount of use out of the program.

You could get the same thing by using a graph of y = x^2 and flipping the meanings of each axis, but for whatever reason, people don't think of learning curves that way. There's no special mathematical meaning that makes one interpretation right or wrong, so it's best to go with the common interpretation. A steep learning curve means that it is hard to learn.

Re:LyX

[bigdavex]

How about if we just say it's, "difficult to learn". The phrase is more clear, less pretentious, and less cliché.

Re:LyX

[Mikkeles]

The muscle memory of (hand)writing notes (which are not necessarily verbatum copies of the presentation) is an excellant aid to learning.

In addition, it helps one learn how to filtre out the less relevant part of copious information; that is, to recognise what's important.

Re:LyX

[CarpetShark]

No. The steepness of a learning curve is not about how much you learn; that would be the "height" (or y value). The steepness is how much you have to learn at once (the increase in y) in order to move forward one step (the increase in x).

Re:LyX

[Youngbull]

actually I think it makes perfect sense if you belive that learning is hard work. You learn a lot which is a lot of hard work, and the other way you do a lot of hard work therefor you learn a lot. "steep learning curve" works for bot because they are mutually inclusive.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think it escaped him, I think he considered it to be a misuse.

And given that it's Slashdot, and the the question is about equations, I think a little pedantry is allowable here.

Re:LyX

[noundi]

Lyx.org just got slashdotted by comment...

Re:LyX

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

But it should be clear that navigating a steep terrain in any direction is a difficult task that should not be taken lightly.

So moving to the state of learned form unlearned requires the navigation of difficult terrain that will take time to navigate before drinking the sweet elixir of success made from the fermentation of the fruit crushed by your plodding steps of education.

Re:LyX

[fbjon]

Are you mad, a DSLR just to take pics of professor scribblings? You bet it's pricey. There are plenty of bridge cameras and some compacts that have long zoom lenses with stabilization, and take perfectly good pictures.

Re:LyX

[commodore64_love]

What I really not love is the unintelligent rule that disallows me from not avoiding double negatives in sentences. Nonliberated pedants. As Chaucer might say, "He nevere yet no vileynye ne sayde, In all his lyf unto no maner wight"

Translation:

What I really [hate] is the [stupid] rule that [forbids] me from [using] double negatives in sentences. [Tyrannical] pedants. "He never yet no vileness not said, in all his life unto no man or weight (status)."

Re:LyX

[commodore64_love]

Correction:

"no maner wight" == "no manner of [human] creature."

Re:LyX

[WgT2]

It depends on what the meaning of Y is.

Re:LyX

[osymandias]

LyX is a good starting point - I used it for a couple of years and it worked very well. By the end of that time I'd build up a sufficient collection of my own macros that I dropped LyX and went back to straight LaTeX. Either approach should work, the former takes less time up front.

Re:LyX

[Ahnteis]

AND when you copy those onto your computer later, you'll be even MORE likely to remember it.

Re:LyX

[Itninja]

I love what I think are called 'contranyms'...words who are their own antonym. Among then are cleave (to cling to, to split apart), trim (to add to, to remove from), and oversight (to watch over, or to not notice at all). Good stuff, language.

Re:LyX

[ajs]

How about if we just say it's, "difficult to learn". The phrase is more clear, less pretentious, and less cliché.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your request. It's just that it's not going to happen.

Language evolves and what sounds imprecise, pretentious or cliché to you now, can become standard usage tomorrow. There's little that any of us can do about that.

And speaking of cliché, please keep your pulpy mass out of the discussion. I find it confusing and pretentious. Just say it's over-used. ... or don't.

Re:LyX

[savuporo]

Aha, but have you ever made a Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs ! ?

Re:LyX

[TheGreenNuke]

Wow, that's a pretty long walk.

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

Any camera you buy, you're pretty much guaranteed to use it for other stuff, too. The advantage of the DSLR cameras and large lenses is that they work well in poor lighting without a tripod---something that point-and-shoot cameras are notoriously bad at because of the smaller lenses. Cell phone cameras doubly so. When you have to shoot photos of text in available light with limited time to take the photo before the board gets erased and without the benefit of a tripod, yeah, you bet your you-know-what I'd recommend a DSLR. I mean you can certainly try a point-and-shoot camera, but if you want something that's guaranteed to be able to handle it with ease, the DSLRs are a good idea. And the thing is, once you buy a camera, you're stuck with it unless you sell it. It's not like you can upgrade a point-and-shoot with a bigger lens to get more light gathering.

Re:LyX

[mqduck]

The curve is steep, because you have to learn a whole lot (vertical) at once in order to make any progress in your ability to use it (horizontal). The metaphor makes sense.

Re:LyX

[mqduck]

That doesn't count as incorrect usage. It's an exaggeration, not misunderstanding of the word 'infinite'.

Re:LyX

[dgatwood]

Maybe for you. As a pianist, I have excellent muscle memory when working with a keyboard, too. On a good day, I can type 60+ WPM with two fingers. Not that I type with two fingers, of course. Too many typos.

When I say I stopped writing things by hand, I was including homework, papers, etc. And I never found that writing things down aided my learning process at all. I took notes in a single-digit number of classes, to the best of my recollection. I find that writing things down on paper distracts me from paying attention to the lecture and actually absorbing the information. When I take notes, I'm paying attention to writing, not to listening and seeing. That actually reduces the amount of learning that occurs. Copying the notes could reinforce learning, but not because of muscle memory. Copying the notes reinforces learning because it forces you to read critically and actually pay attention to every word. That said, even still, it only reinforces rote memorization, and not true understanding. Reading the printed lecture notes several times would do the same thing. However, when you read over them several times, you're focusing on the material instead of focusing on what your hands are doing, and thus you will probably actually learn more.

I find that rereading works best shortly after the lecture, while the material is still fresh in your mind. That said, it is also helpful to reread it a few days later after your mind has cooled a bit. On this second reading, pay attention to what makes sense and what doesn't. That way, you can identify the areas that you didn't completely grasp and can ask questions the next week. After asking those questions, reread it a third time and see if the explanations clarified your understanding. For the same reason, I go back and reread everything I post on Slashdot several times before I click "submit". When I'm typing, I'm not able to focus on the words as much. Focusing on just the material without the distraction of typing or writing frees your mind to actually learn.

That said, everyone's learning styles are different, and different people pick up new material in different ways. If taking handwritten notes and typing them in later works for you, great. For me, I always found it to be a waste of time that could be better spent listening, watching, and asking questions. It just depends on the person, I guess.

Re:LyX

[jipn4]

That doesn't change the fact that the hill metaphor doesn't work when applied to learning curves: steeper means easier.

Since this confuses people, maybe one should reverse the axes (vertical time, horizontal skill) and change the name; then steep and shallow work like they do for hills.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I was on an inter-mural volleyball team in college named Quantum Leap. The name was appropriate!

Re:LyX

[electrons_are_brave]

Huh? Graphs are very definitely not my thing, so I'm not confident but ... Surely, given that the common meaning of "steep learning curve" is "a lot to learn in a short time", the x-axis must be "time" and the y-axis "mastery". So the "what you have learned line" rises steeply (???)

BTW, the Oxford English Dictionary has the meaning as the opposite (something that's quich and easy to learn). So they must have the x-axis as "mastery" and the y-axis as "time". I think. But my sudden insight into graphs is fading a little.

p.s. When I say the common meaning, I mean here in Australia and (judging by newspaper use http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2009/07/steep-learning-curves.html) also in the US.

Re:LyX

[tabrnaker]

That what $5 mini tripods are for.

Re:LyX

[majid_aldo]

literally?

Re:LyX

[im_thatoneguy]

The slope of the data isn't related to challenge over time. It's amount of information over time.

So the amount of data to learn is steep because it requires a great deal of learning simultaneously.

It's assumed that people learn information at a steady pace. So steep learning curve implies that it's difficult because the amount of material to be learned is steeper than the rate at which the average individual can learn it.

Re:LyX

[asaz989]

I always think of it with different variables: the X is the amount you could actually do, and the Y is how much you needed to learn in order to do it. So, a shallow learning curve means you can do rather a lot with relatively little learning, a steep learning curve meant you need to learn a lot per unit of functionality, and a learning cliff means you need to learn everything before you can do anything.

Re:LyX

[OldSoldier]

It's not the size of the leap that's impressive it's the fact that the intermediate space wasn't traversed.

Re:LyX

[cheftw]

Only Apple could make a linear curve.

I hear the circular volume knob on the new iPod will have a pi of 3.

(Pratchett etc.)

Re:LyX

[dunng808]

I use LyX 1.5.7 on Gnome 2.26.3 on FreeBSD and I don't think it uses qt. It looks a lot like a regular Gnome app. I recall a few years ago a version that did look "old fashioned." It can appear cluttered at first, but only because the UI tries to offer lots of tool buttons to the rich command set. I find this version the easiest to use. The old UI was not so intuitive to young folks raised on Macs and Windows.

Re:LyX

[Simon80]

*whoosh*

Re:LyX

[jbengt]

The learning curve has amount of time to make a single widget in the Y axis, and number of widgets made in the X axis.
It is good when that curve is steep, because that means improvement is fast. Even so, a learning curve that starts high is not that good, because it means you start off too slow,.
Either way, the important thing is that the curve drops to a small length of time per widget at the end. That's why GUIs are praised by those who "don't want to spend all their time learning esoteric commands" and disparaged by those who already know how to get things done without "being slowed down by moving hands back and forth between keyboard and mouse".

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously went too far

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, but how much time?

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. As a student, I handwrite my notes during lecture because it is easier for me to refer back to an earlier note to reiterate a point with a handwritten * than it is to scroll through lines of text, place an *, then scroll back and catch up with the lecture again. That's just my opinion, though.

Re:LyX

[Herby Sagues]

So if the term has contradictory interpretations and is not clear, let's stop using it. What's wrong with "it's easy to learn" and "it's difficult to learn"?

Re:LyX

[Brian Gordon]

Well there's some lyx-gtk version available but it doesn't have all of the features of the qt version exposed and it's supposedly not stable

Re:LyX

[Steve Franklin]

It's only a misuse if you can show that it was used *originally* in a different manner. This is the argument used against "oxymoron." Supposedly "smart moron" was originally used to mean something completely different. Can this guy demonstrate that "steep learning curve" was ever used to mean easy and not hard? Looking at Webster's New Collegiate, the last and presumably most recent entry for steep is 4: "difficult to accept, meet, or perform." Clearly, this was the original meaning of the term. Why does this guy think it's wrong?

Re:LyX

[JeffTL]

I'm dysgraphic, and I've used LyX for more complicated math stuff before. For simple stuff, just typing out descriptions in Word (TI83 or C++ style syntax for math works) is fairly efficient. Otherwise, some iteration of the Wacom Bamboo would allow you to use OneNote, Word for Mac, or other software to do notes with combined pen and keyboard input.

Re:LyX

[ceoyoyo]

And typing it can do the same thing.

Re:LyX

[rhyder128k]

Ah, but it would be a steep "forgetting curve" if it were negative.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the word you're looking for is "significant" :)

Re:LyX

[Thinboy00]

Time is never^H^H *looks around suspiciously* rarely on the y-axis.

Re:LyX

[Jon Abbott]

I strongly second LyX. I used it for years in college to take equation-heavy class notes and to do my homework. Often times my class notes came out better looking than the professor's. LyX was also very light on CPU use. Using LyX I was able to transcribe tables, matrices, integrals, fractions, really anything the professor threw on the board, in near real-time.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

The muscle memory of (hand)writing notes (which are not necessarily verbatum copies of the presentation) is an excellant aid to learning.

In addition, it helps one learn how to filtre out the less relevant part of copious information; that is, to recognise what's important.

Soooo.... you're advocating tablet computers?

Re:LyX

[Jon Abbott]

I also used OmniGraffle for diagrams. It is a vector diagramming tool so I could export to EPS and import into LyX directly. That way my class notes were typeset using TeX and had vector graphics. LyX even allowed its keyboard combinations to be remapped to whatever you wanted. For non-tablet equation and diagram input, it really doesn't get any better or easier than LyX combined with OmniGraffle.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd also like to add how great LyX is for general note taking. LyX allows you to quickly break up your notes into sections, sub-sections, sub-sub-sections and so on--which I regularly use to organize my thoughts "on the page" so to speak.

Is the teacher suddenly on a new topic? Then I'll put those notes in a new sections with Alt-P 2. Something related to the current topic? Then it goes into a sub-section under the current one with Alt-P 3. Revisiting a topic covered in a previous class? Then I can just add it as a sub-section under the existing one, and LyX will update the numbering and cross-references for me.

By the end of the semester, I essentially have a small book of everything covered in class...with an automatic table of contents.

Re:LyX

[Eskarel]

That is entirely dependent on the individual and their learning style.

Some people do learn that way, some people do not, some people learn better by reading, or speaking or listening, or teaching others. Back in high school I used to program my calculator to do the problems on the homework and while I couldn't use those programs in class, explaining how to do something to the calculator generally gave me a pretty good understanding of it myself.

Re:LyX

[Eskarel]

It's actually both.

When you have a shallow learning curve, your requirement for additional knowledge increases gradually over time. This means that while it might take you a lot longer to actually become an expert, you can get going with the concept almost immediately.

A steep learning curve is essentially the opposite. You'll have to become an expert to actually use the concept. Generally speaking this means you'll get to be an expert one hell of a lot faster, but it's going to be a lot harder to get there and you might not actually make it.

Metaphorically it's a bit like walking up a ramp as compared with climbing a wall. If you climb the wall you'll be at the top a lot faster, but it'll take a lot more work and people who aren't really that good at climbing walls might not make it.

For most people, becoming an expert over a long period of time is better, both because it's easier on them and because they'll actually be able to do some work a lot quicker.

Re:LyX

[iocat]

What? I've never heard "steep" mean "easy" when refering to learning curves. Exactly the opposite.

Re:LyX

[FrankieBaby1986]

The muscle memory of (hand)writing notes (which are not necessarily verbatum copies of the presentation) is an excellant aid to learning.

Maybe if you're trying to memorize facts, but what is the utility in this day with google and reference books at your fingertips. I find the thing that's most important, especially in a math class, is the concepts and understanding them, as well as simply being familiar enough with equations to understand when to apply them and how.

If I am too busy trying to copy down everything the teacher explains, I can't focus on the important things. That's why for most classes, I don't even bother with taking notes. I have the book in most cases for reference.

What is really needed is for classes such as mathematics and sciences is to have guided exercise. Everyone works in pairs or groups to solve problems and APPLY the knowledge immediately after the teacher imparts it, with the teacher present to go to for assistance when things haven't "clicked" yet.

As a fifth year student (Admittedly not a stellar one, but thats a personal issue) I'd recommend focusing on the concepts, and don't worry about writing everything down. Practice will get you much farther than your notes ever will.

Re:LyX

[TheLink]

> removing the need to waste a lot of the students' time hand-writing copies of the same content unnecessarily.
> We don't live in ancient times; we aren't training scribes here.

Yeah I agree it's a big waste of time to rewrite and redraw stuff that's already written and drawn.

They should just put the lectures up on youtube (or elsewhere):

e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MIT
http://www.youtube.com/user/stanforduniversity
http://www.youtube.com/user/ucberkeley
http://www.youtube.com/user/unsw
http://www.youtube.com/user/nptelhrd

That makes things even more efficient in other ways - since students have a better idea of whether they might like the course or not, before they enroll for it, pay lots of $$$$ etc. Or even whether they can understand the lecturer's accent ;).

Re:LyX

[nerdtalker]

LyX is my de facto lazy LaTeX crutch, for when I don't feel like really writing straight LaTeX, but need the same feel and ease of use. Plus, seeing formulas actually semi-typeset is marvelous. That said, I'm amazed that anyone would honestly use it to take notes. First of all, you're not exactly creating something that's immediately accessible or lends itself to organization in any fashion. How are/how do people organize this? I've tried everything and I eventually just settled on a tablet. Freshman year I took all my notes on a Samsung Q1 ultra; admittedly this was great since battery life was upwards of 7 hours, but having a passive digitizer killed me. Now, I do all my notes on a Latitude XT in OneNote. I honestly wish there was a *nix equivalent that worked half as well, because I'd use it, but OneNote is just about the biggest killer app ever for notes and tablets. It's an amazing end-all note taking solution that not only recognizes and searches, but makes it easy to organize and backup. I can now access any of my notes going back many years, on the fly, and access them from multiple computers (tablet and desktop). I routinely get wows from professors and other students that are amazed they can't do the same. I honestly wonder some days why people run around scrawling notes on dead trees with what amounts to a rock that leaves marks. Why drop 2k on a macbook you admittedly can't take notes on when you could buy a tablet?

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Use mathbin.net to quickly

Re:LyX

[bh_doc]

You were right to be suspicious. Never seen a Minkowski diagram before? ;-)

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

But how long in parsecs?

Re:LyX

[rjforster]

Exactly.

I was told that for every one hour of lecture time it should take three hours of your life.
One hour in the lecture.
One hour no later than a few days afterwards reviewing and annotating your notes, making sure you understand it all, adding extra information from text books and redrawing hastily sketched diagrams etc.
Then one hour close to exam time revising it.

I found I did best in exams when I worked like this. Finding a quicker way to get your notes right first time only means you have more time to spend in that second hour making sure you understand what you typed.

Re:LyX

[shtrom]

During my Master's degree, I resolved to taking all my notes in raw LaTeX. Getting the equations right in a timely fashion is hard at first, but it's a great training. By the end of the year, I could almost type them in as fast as the lecturer would write them down.

The problem was more on the diagrams and various graphs. I still don't master real-time Xfig!

Overall, I found that it was a good thing to always have a couple of paper sheets handy in case something needed to be noted down quickly. Going over these offline to complete the lecture notes is a good way to review the material.

Re:LyX

[noidentity]

Claim you have a disability and get the university to pay someone to write all of your notes.

Does having Windows Vista loaded on my laptop count?

Re:LyX

[Hognoxious]

I get really annoyed

Is that more than exponentially annoyed?

Re:LyX

[wall0159]

I wrote my thesis in LyX, and it was basically a good experience with few problems. However, if I was doing it again I'd probably use straight LaTeX via a nice editor (gedit has a nice LaTeX plugin, for example). The reason for this is that I think LaTeX is in someways a bit simpler than LyX because it is always clear what is happening, whereas LyX has a second markup stage. I had a bit of difficulty doing some document-wide formatting in LyX that I think would've been more straight-forward in LaTeX.

I'm certainly not being heavily critical of LyX, and think that if you stick to their bundled document formats, you should be fine.

(this is a little off-topic, because the article is about taking equation notes in class, which would be a cinch in LyX, I reckon.)

Re:LyX

[Hognoxious]

Language evolves and what sounds imprecise, pretentious or cliché to you now, can become standard usage tomorrow.

The learning curve metaphor is already standard usage. Or rather, two different standard usages.

Re:LyX

[GrandTeddyBearOfDoom]

What is the real question?

maybe: What is the point of being in maths class in the first place? is a better guess

then maybe: What am I being expected to learn to see that I currently can't, even though it's in front of me????

Re:LyX

[Hognoxious]

Say you have your typical exponential (steep) curve.

How steep is y=1^x?

Re:LyX

[priegog]

Well, for me the easiest of routes was tu ultimately buy a tablet pc. I know you must be a poor student (like me), but bear with me. eBay is your friend. When I had such a dilemma (except not with equations because I'm a med student), I looked around for a solution and finally figured I could make with and old (2003 old) tablet pc. The kind that are tiny because they don't even have a keyboard. I ended up buying a Motion Computing M1300, for around $100, and honestly, it's the best purchase (computer-wise, and price/usefullness) I've ever made. Of course it came without even a pen, charger, HDD or battery, but all of these things, plus a mini USB bluetooth adapter and a bluetooth folding keyboard AND 1.5 GB of ram placed the whole thing at a little less than $200. And it's just a dream for taking notes, I loaded Ubuntu on it, and notes save to either some weird XML format that takes no space at all or slightly bigger PDF files (with a program called Xournal). I've never had the need to do this, but I guess you could also OCR the whole thing and make it searchable. In the end, it's not a gaming computer, but it's definitely smaller and lightner than my normal laptop, the hell of a lot more useful (bigger screen AND faster processor, believe it or not) than a netbook, and ends up costing way less than either of them. All of this was a little over 2 years ago, so I'd imagine with a little luck and patience you might be able to score a similar deal for an even lower price. my 2 cents (and actually one of the few posts that actually try to address your question directly)

Re:LyX

[Sam Douglas]

Man up, learn LaTeX math syntax. I found I could generally take notes about as quickly as they were written using TeX. MediaWiki with the math mode extensions is good too, and more accessible than a linear document. TeX becomes painful when you end up trying to take notes that involve tables with mixtures of summations and program code; when it gets tough, use a pen and paper, and transfer it to your computer readable notes later, otherwise you spend so long trying to format it that you don't concentrate on what the lecturer is saying!

Re:LyX

[Hognoxious]

We don't live in ancient times; we aren't training scribes here.

Lecture (noun). A method of transferring information from the teacher's page to the student's without passing through the brain of either.

Re:LyX

[Mallaien]

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10841&cs_id=1084101&p_id=5553&seq=1&format=1#largeimage This is a Ultra cheap table I recently bought, and I have no trouble with it. its a graphics tablet, large work area and programmable "areas" to open apps or menus. Works great in Photoshop and Zbrush.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Well at least you're pretty far away from them now.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

For some people.

I was never a note taking person. However, for some reason, I did take notes in one particular subject (history), and I did so bad in that subject, that it was brought up in a meeting with the teacher. To turn things around, we agreed that I should try not taking notes, at least one lesson.

That lesson is the only lesson I remember *anything* from.

Re:LyX

[albyrne5]

Hahahahahahahaha, brilliant.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone here is out-thinking this. Point your laptop's camera at the blackboard, capture it all, and let the laptop convert to text/equations for you.

Re:LyX

[MR.Mic]

I would imagine the mirror slap and shutter sounds of a DSLR will become distracting in a classroom setting.

Re:LyX

[16384]

+1 on lyx. Just learn the shortcuts (alt+m key) and a few latex symbols and you're set.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true for certain types of learners. Being an auditory learner notes were actually a distraction for me. I was not able to process the information as I was hearing it. Rather, I was having to concentrate on getting the important information on the page. I learned to take very scarce notes in my time in school and once I learned this my grades increased drastically. Mainly I wrote down the things I knew I couldn't remember from just one pass.

Re:LyX

[PopeRatzo]

You'd think that people would learn that language isn't always sensical

I could care less.

Re:LyX

[Muad'Dave]

I think you chose to split the word at the wrong spot. The derivation of nonsensical is nonsense-ical. The suffix -ical makes the noun nonsense into an adjective. The root word nonsense is, of course, non- (meaning not) and sense.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

When I last did this, I found I retained more by typing the notes in, in class, then in the process of reviewing and revising them, that process helped with even greater retention. Of course, with my handwriting, developing the muscle memory isn't worth much if I can't read 'em later.

Re:LyX

[Beale]

A straight line is just a special case of curve.

Re:LyX

[johny42]

On a good day, I can type 60+ WPM with two fingers.

You should make a YouTube video out of that... instant meme!

Re:LyX

[bigdavex]

There's nothing inherently wrong with your request. It's just that it's not going to happen.

I'm not suggesting that the mythical English police should abolish the phrase by decree. I'm just not going to use it, and other people can do the same if they agree.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

The only sensible meaning of quantum leap in an analogical context is 'paradigm shift'.

Re:LyX

[AndersOSU]

This sounds like one of the things that's been repeated so many times it's become true.

While I probably spent close to 3 times as much time studying out of class than I did in lectures for advanced classes, but I promise you, it was not copying and recopying my notes, it was almost entirely working sample problems. (I studied mechanical engineering - so I've done my fair share of math).

I especially wasn't worried about getting the equations right - lectures are for concepts, text books are for details. If you have a professor who does derivations for an hour skip the lecture and study the textbook.

If you study humanities, you might spend more time with your notes, but then you don't have to worry about complex equations either.

Re:LyX

[MikeBabcock]

Just look at a curve representing knowledge over time.

If the curve is steep, you're learning a lot over a little time.

The less steep the curve, the less you're learning for a given amount of time, therefore the harder the material in question is.

Re:LyX

[MikeBabcock]

Almost everyone has muscle memory. The fact that you may never re-use that knowledge (because you're bound to a calculator or keyboard) is the problem, not that you won't learn doing it.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

You are assuming you know the axises of the graph. I propose a graph where y axis = difficulty and x axis = amount of knowledge.

It early so I might be missing an axises of three...

Re:LyX

[Andy Dodd]

Think of it a different way: If a learning curve is steep, you *need* to learn a lot over a little time.

e.g. assume that you start at "not proficient" and end at "proficient" - The steeper the learning curve, the more you have to learn to reach "proficient".

It fits well with the hill analogy - you want to get to the top of the hill from the bottom. The steeper the hill, the more height you have to gain to get to the top.

Re:LyX

[steveo777]

I always figured the learning 'curve' was a function of ability over time. It always ends on the top of the 'hill' in the sames spot. The curve, however, was generated in how much time was allowed. Therefore, lot's of things to learn in a short period of time would be steep (and likely difficult), however, the same amount of learning over, say, four times as much time would be a more gentle slope (however, this could still be difficult).

If you can learn something "at your leisure" I'd say that the curve becomes trivial because you're not required to "climb" and faster or slower than you wish.

Re:LyX

[kantos]

LyX is nice, and for my algorithms HW it was essential, it just had symbols that even Word 2007 didn't have, (Word 2003's equation editor is a joke), and once I learned the keyboard shortcuts it was a lot faster too. Word 2007 actually uses many of the same shortcuts (when in equation editor mode) as Lyx (it seemed to me at the time that MS was trying to make a poor copy. and did a half way decent job of it given that Word is not a typesetting program). Windows 7 has a math pad, lacking a wacom or other reasonable input device I was unable to adequately test it. However given the Macbook Pro LyX is probably the best answer because LyX has a Mac distribution.

Re:LyX

[peter in mn]

A great example is the phrase "going downhill"

ie. "It went downhill from there." Can mean: 1.) The situation was bad, and worsened over time. 2.) The hard part is over, and everything fell into place. (ie. things became better/easier with time)

Yes, this is a good example. I think, in **my** dialect, these two meanings of "downhill" have different grammatical structure: the first meaning, of a bad situation, is always said as "went downhill", or "going downhill". The second, of getting easier, is stated as "is downhill". So really, two different verbs, hopefully made more clear by context. This is why translators get paid.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, maybe not here, but over at ScribeAmerica they're certainly looking to train scribes, and I wouldn't call them stuck in ancient times; hell, they're pretty modern, using tablet PCs in the ER... O.o

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

The muscle memory of (hand)writing notes (which are not necessarily verbatum copies of the presentation) is an excellant aid to learning.

In addition, it helps one learn how to filtre out the less relevant part of copious information; that is, to recognise what's important.

Handwriting notes ensures that any information comes in my eyes and ears and out my hands bypassing my brain completely. I can't read my own handwriting and didn't have a laptop in college (graduated 2001). I wish I had figured that out before my second semester senior year.

Re:LyX

[DrLang21]

I hear the circular volume knob on the new iPod will have a pi of 3.

Only in Indiana

Re:LyX

[steveo777]

This is a method I use quite often. The only problem is making sure the flash is off so you don't annoy the instructor. Absolutely priceless. However, I find that if I don't copy the pictures into a notebook then I won't retain it. I just get to do it a little slower.

(also, taking a video of a long lecture is AWESOME)

Re:LyX

[koreaman]

You're lucky you couldn't use them on tests. Reminds me of the time in 9th grade I made a program whose key lines were: -b+sqrt(b^2-4ac)/2a->x
and -b-sqrt(b^2-4ac)/2a->y

Notice no parentheses around 2a :(

Grade on quiz: F.

Re:LyX

[CastrTroy]

Even better. Stop taking notes entirely and increase you focus on actually listening to what the teacher is saying. I almost always did better in courses when I actually payed attention to what the professor was saying, instead of trying like crazy to copy down every single word they wrote/said. If you are unclear about a certain topic, consult the textbook, the professor, or other students.

Re:LyX

[gardyloo]

Win.

Re:LyX

[Eskarel]

It's true that almost everyone has muscle memory, but it doesn't really work the way you seem to be saying.

Yes if you wrote out your notes a hundred thousand times you could probably rewrite them and then read them, but muscle memory isn't going to help you remember what they said, and writing them out once isn't going to give you muscle memory.

A pianist who practices a piece over and over and over again can quite often play it back from muscle memory. That doesn't necessarily mean that they could tell you what any particular note actually was. The practice involved in acquiring that muscle memory might very well give them that knowledge, but it's not from the muscle memory.

Re:LyX

[norminator]

I always thought that the "Learning Curve" referred to how much you had to learn before you could do anything useful.

A steep learning curve means you have a lot to learn right from the beginning, while a shallow learning curve would mean that you don't have to spend as much of your time trying to learn what to do.

If we were talking about your abilities over time, wouldn't we call it an ability curve?

Re:LyX

[norminator]

The GP pointed out that the curve isn't about learning versus the time it takes to do something, it's about the amount of time spent learning versus the time spent doing actual work.

Re:LyX

[Retribution]

For different people, different things work. If I just listen, I follow well, but forget quickly. If I take notes, I struggle more to keep up, but I remember things well -- even if I throw my notes away.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft's Equation Editor isn't even worth mentioning.

Why? Because it's from Microsoft?

Using the MS Equation Editor from Office 2007, I can transcribe fugly equations faster than they go up on the board. Once you have sufficient practice with the hotkeys so you are keyboard-only, you'll find that it's pretty damn slick.

This is using MS Office 2007 with Wine on a 4 year-old laptop running Gentoo. I can understand dismissing Microsoft Equation Editor if you are a fossmonkey crackhead, but for those of us just looking to get shit done, it works damn well.

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought that it meant a major change, like the change in thinking required to move from classical to quantum mechanics.

Re:LyX

[ThatsNotPudding]

Plus, for most people today, reading one's own handwriting qualifies towards a minor in Decryption!

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I too wrote all the chapters in my thesis with LyX. Then I exported them to LaTeX, applied about 10 lines of perl to strip the headers and wrote a LaTeX top level file which was basically page configuration directives and a string of \include's and \makeTableOfContents, \makeListOfFigures etc. That combined with a Makefile for automating the perl / latex / latex / dvips dance made final edits and clean-ups pretty trivial. After many "make draft" instances, there was something very satisfying about "make FINAL".

Re:LyX

[cyphercell]

I thought the same, but it makes perfect sense:

"The familiar expression "steep learning curve" may refer alternately to rapid learning that is easy, or especially hard, or to steady progress that is increasingly difficult. Which is referred to needs to be clarified by context. The difference is specifically whether one is referring to the rate of learning or the rate of investment needed to learn. Typically for a steady rate of learning, the rate of effort or time invested first decreases and then increases without bound in approaching the limits of learning or perfection for a given subject and method. Originally it referred to quick progress in learning during the initial stages followed by gradually lesser improvements with further practice."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_curve

Re:LyX

[MikeBabcock]

You can think of it that way, but that's no different than saying "this material is so easy, you'll know it all in five minutes" with the same resulting curve.

Your comment on difficulty is not in fact the curve itself, but an outside force resulting in the curve. This "need" you cite does not exist in the math of the knowledge over time curve, the curve just expresses the data.

Re:LyX

[dannys42]

I was going to say that I type relatively fast, and using vi with latex worked quite well for me. The only thing that would've been nicer is a real-time viewer for what I was typing.

It sounds like from your description, LyX might be just that?

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

I took all my notes for my second year physics class using open office writer, i just typed the equations in using the syntax of OOo math and once highlighted you press the math button (i mapped this to F4) instant equations. I did try doing it in LaTeX but I found the syntax a little cumbersome compared to the OOo syntax.

Re:LyX

[FreeFull]

Think of it as this, the steepness of the curve means there is more to learn than if the curve is shallow, ergo some people would say it's more difficult.

Re:LyX

[gr8dude]

You are right. In fact, there are many things that play a role in the improvement of the learning process - muscle memory is just one of them.

I have recently filmed one of my lectures, it is called The write right rite, in this class I make a list of such learning aids and explain how each of them works.

The video is not yet online (I am now writing the subtitles for it), but when it's there - I believe you would be interested in taking a look at it.

Re:LyX

[hawk]

LyX was why I switched from Mac to Unix almost 15 years ago. You can both enter and edit equations from the keyboard.

The next best option is Word 4 or 5.1 for the mac--you can enter from the keyboard, and I had macros for matrices, integrals, etc.--but you can't edit *and* see the equation displayed at the same time.

hawk

Re:LyX

[hawk]

Lyx for *entry* of equations, followed by LaTeX for editing of the document.

But then, my dissertation went on for pages at a time with matrix calculus . . . :)

Re:LyX

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely. For mathematics students writing notes by hand from mathematics written on the black board is still the best way to do it. Of course supplemented by LaTeX'd notes etc. But seeing it develop on the board and it having to pass through eye brain and hand seems to be an important part of learning mathematics.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

pencil/paper

[jschen]

Pencil/paper and digitizing later should be fine.

Re:pencil/paper

[Reeses]

Pen and paper got me through my math classes in school. Then I'd transcribe the equations later into digital form.

Re:pencil/paper

[arthurpaliden]

Pencil/paper and transcription. That way the knowlage is refreshed after the lecture and you hve a better chance of correcting what you took down if it was initially taken down in error because the content is fresh in your mind.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using the LiveScribe PulsePen - it works pretty well, but it won't do a good job of translating your scribbles to text. It has some text search. But the cool thing is it records your professor's voice and syncs it with your notes. Check it out http://www.livescribe.com/

Re:pencil/paper

[ITRambo]

..and paper never crashes or needs to be recharged.

Re:pencil/paper

[ocean_soul]

I agree. You should not be taking notes on the computer. It's much better to do it on paper and, if you really need it, digitize them later. This coming from a former mathematical physics student, now teaching mathematical physics. So I do have (a lot of) experience with it.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been an engineer for 30 years and have tried over and over to take digital notes. I have never found an efficient solution. You're right - equations and drawings / sketches make digital note-taking a mess. OCR technology pukes on my handwriting.

Here is the work flow that I have used for the last 5 years, or so:

1. Handwritten notes in black pen.
2. Scan according to your preference (200 dpi grayscale for me). Save as tiff.
3. Import into Paperport.
4. Use Paperport's annotation function to add searchable text boxes.

It sux, but I have about 2,500 pages of notes that I can search by my added keywords, and can back up in case of catastrophe.

I continuously try to improve this workflow, and Paperport's ability to search on text boxes is unique. Most software needs/wants to OCR and and make a linked text file in order to search.

Re:pencil/paper

[Viridae]

Needs refreshing occasionally though.

Re:pencil/paper

[budhaboy]

totally agree. The best editing software for equations I've ever seen is latex, and I suspect it's still too slow for taking notes in class. There used to be these crazy pens that could capture notes (and doodles) to image files... But it'd probrably be easier just to scan them later, as it'd give you a chance to review them anyway.

Re:pencil/paper

[TheKidWho]

As a former mechanical engineer student, taking notes on a laptop, unless it is a tablet PC, is a bad idea.

Use a pen and paper and get used to writing down equations.

Re:pencil/paper

[mctk]

Other solutions that solve poster's problem without answering his quesiton:

1. Memorize as you go.
2. Screw lecture, just watch Square One.
3. Have friend audio-record lectures then have other friend convert them to notes then photocopy friend's notes and use OCR.
4. Drop out of school.
5. Prove the Reimann Hypothesis and skip right to that PhD.
6. Hire a plant to continually ask inane questions during lecture, giving you more time to input those equations in LaTeX.
7. Code up a Math Module for Dragon Naturally speaking.
8. ???
9. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all

Wait... What were we talking about?

Re:pencil/paper

[stephanruby]

You could also experiment with with snapping pictures of the formulas as they're on the board, or video recording the black board or projector with a good web cam. If you're recording, you may have to ask permission from the instructor, and/or double-check the laws in your state. And whether you chose a normal camera, a phone camera, or a good web cam, you'll want to carefully read its customer reviews to make sure it works well with your Mac, and as the necessary resolution/optical zoom to pick out what's on the board (or what's being projected).

Re:pencil/paper

[codeonezero]

I wholeheartedly support this. It's been a few years since I taken a math course, but I don't believe there's a more flexible tool for note taking in a math class than pen & paper. I remember taking notes, and adding little side notes of my own to help remember something.

When you're trying to do something like this, high tech isn't always the answer, K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, silly! ;) )

Also the trick to any good math course is write down only the things that are more complicated. Paying attention to the teacher and following through the nuances of mathematics and writing down what the Professor/Teacher says that's not in your textbook is what's important :)

Re:pencil/paper

[codeonezero]

Also the beauty of mathematics, at least for me, was the part where you learn how to drag those beautiful mark notations with your own hand. As another poster mentioned, doing it by hand also helps memory.

Re:pencil/paper

[chrisb33]

If you're just interested in organization and searching, I'd highly recommend the LiveScribe Pulse smartpen - all the smarts are in the pen, which isn't too expensive compared to a tablet, and you can buy the compatible notebooks cheaply. All your notes get backed up to your computer when you dock your pen, it does a great job searching for a specific piece of text. My handwriting is a disaster, and I have never seen a search fail so far - I believe that it actually uses the sequence of pen motions (not just OCR on the final result) and it can tolerate some of the letters being unreadable. It has other features as well, such as recording audio (the mic has a decent gain) and syncing it with your notes. They also have an SDK and are launching an app store, so in the future you should be able to make good use of the ARM processor in the pen.

Re:pencil/paper

[Z1NG]

One problem with hand written notes is that I don't like reading my own handwriting. Sure you could type them later, but I think the submitter wants to find a way to save time and just take the notes once.

Re:pencil/paper

[Aeonym]

http://www.livescribe.com/ might be just the thing for you: handwritten notes, digitized without scanning, and bonus audio (and anchored references) to boot.

Re:pencil/paper

[zolltron]

Absolutely! I have students that take notes on computer, and I think it's a terrible idea. First there is the problem of equations. In the class I teach we introduce a lot of symbols, so even if you have a fast system you would have to find the symbols in a big list. By the time you do, you're probably behind.

Second, note taking is a tool which helps you learn the material better. Transcribing the notes later helps significantly more, because now you get to revisit the material with fresh eyes. Something that may have seemed obvious initially may seem less so when you transcribe them. Now you can go to the next lecture an ask questions from the previous class. (As a professor, I'm *very* impressed when students do this, because it proves to me that they did something other than drink beer between the end of the last class and the beginning of the next.)

Finally taking notes on a computer provides you with many distractions. I know lots of students who claim "I don't get distracted from using a computer", but then my grader or another student informs me the were surfing the web, reading email, IMing, etc. Save yourself from having to avoid these and just use paper.

Re:pencil/paper

[dgatwood]

Another problem with handwritten notes is that many people experience serious hand cramping after writing continuously for an hour. I could type for a week without getting tired; you don't have to tightly grip a keyboard. I stopped writing stuff by hand entirely back in junior high, with the exception of a couple of teachers who didn't like typed stuff. Handwriting is just too physically draining for what you get out of it. Pen and paper are for *short* notes to myself, marking up copy, etc. Everything else is 1s and 0s.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried this freshman year and I ended up wasting a lot of time. Yes, I learned the stuff well, but it meant that my homework (which I also typeset in LaTeX) would take away from my rest time (i.e. 8 hours of sleep each night). It's doable if you do two technical courses per quarter with one easy general education requirement which you don't mind barely passing.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Pencil/paper and digitizing later should be fine.

Reminds me of a device I saw posted on an engineer's cubby at Apple during the Scully years (this was during the Newton effort). Labeled a "Nuttin" it consisted of a pad of Post-its attached to a small square of plexiglass, with a pencil (with built in eraser) on an attached string. AdmiralXyz could leave off the plastic, string, and eraser and still satisfy his needs.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Pencil and paper are a good solution. The submitter is asking the wrong question.

Re:pencil/paper

[Beardo the Bearded]

I'd say that pen and paper and then never looking at your notes again after the class is over is fine. Use ink.

What? It worked for me and I'm an Electrical Engineer.

Re:pencil/paper

[T Murphy]

I'm at an engineering college where all students have to get a laptop freshman year- it comes with MS Office, Matlab and Maple among other programs. I never see students using a laptop to take notes unless the professor is doing Matlab or Maple code. I haven't seen students try tablets so I can't comment on that, but I see no problems with pencil and paper. I agree with others that transferring the notes later can help them sink in better, so there is no reason you can't do that.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

bah. Advice I expect to be given by a 20th century teacher.

I can type much faster and far more accurately than I can write. Further, I learn material better when I type -voice to brain to keys- than when I copy -eyes to brain to pencil-.

Copying text is a straight visual pass-through for me, no comprehesion required. Whereas for voice, I need to recognize the words and understand the context to transcribe.

As for getting behind...I have never fallen behind while typing. If I don't have a specific symbol, I improvise.

On the other hand, I have ALWAYS fallen behind when teachers present material. Almost invariably they use overhead projectors with pre-written material (they cheat), they have pre-written material on whiteboards or blackboards, or they only write bullets on the board while speaking volumes.

Pencils are sooo last century.

Re:pencil/paper

[koutbo6]

actually 1 isn't that far from the truth. My solution to the problem, don't take notes and pay attention in class. All equations u will ever need will be in text book. I got through the later year, and even earned a PhD, using this method. I noticed that I was taking noted in my early years in school just to feel secure. Everyone around me was doing it so it had to be right. Right? By end of each semester, I also notice that I haven't opened and read a single note, so why bother? I even found that I did better because I wasn't distracted with writing!

Re:pencil/paper

[Idbar]

Although the OCR is being charged for, so I never got to use it, searching over your notes is impressively accurate and good. I had it for some time and I think is a good option. I don't like the fact that the number of notebooks you can have is limited and you have to "archive" your notes before you start using more.
I believe that if what you want is presentation, LaTeX will do it. There are some equation editors that immediately render some LaTeX commands, such as the new word equation editor.

On a personal note, I used to enjoy WordPerfect 5.1 way of adding equations. I don't know how's Corel keeping on that one.

Re:pencil/paper

[maharb]

If I asked for the best way to kill myself and a reply was "maybe you shouldn't" will you make one of these for me?

Re:pencil/paper

[exploder]

I would expect that you'd need permission not only from the instructor but from every other student in the classroom if you want to record video. There are already plenty of students who aren't comfortable speaking up in class--imagine how much worse it would be for them knowing they're being recorded.

Re:pencil/paper

[pz]

Pencil/paper and digitizing later should be fine.

I agree. I like technology. I strongly advocate for the use of advanced technology when appropriate. My research is in some seriously advanced stuff. But I use pencil and paper to take notes.

Why?

The interface has had thousands and thousands of years of development, and is pretty much knocked out as best as it can possibly be, and it's very, very good. The learning curve has already been amortized. While I can type damed fast, perhaps faster than I can write longhand, I can draw diagrams and mathematical expressions thousands of times faster than I can type them. And the act of writing is a central part of learning.

Use the technology appropriate to the task -- in this case, it's pen (or pencil) and paper. If you want to later transcribe things into a searchable database (have we hit the point where our students' brains have become too soft to remember things learned in class, and they must search?), then that process of reviewing your notes will help consolidate the lessons. If you want to really nail it, then take a little voice recording do-dad with you to class and play that back while transcribing your notes. Repeated multi-modal exposure to the material helps reinforce learning.

Stop typing. Pull out pencil and paper.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, are indeed a professor.

How keen to assume that if a student doesn't ask questions that they were drinking away their lives, and not, as is far more likely the case, doing work for some other professor's class. The other professor probably assumes the same, and while the student gets piled on with either work or scorn, the professors chug along blissfully presuming that they're the only ones deserving of tenure and sharpening their arguments that the current undergraduates are all lazy slackers.

I'm sure you never had a drop of beer in college, and certainly not for the purpose of keeping you from jumping off a bridge under the stresses of life.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Handwriting is just too physically draining for what you get out of it.

harden the fuck up. seriously.

Re:pencil/paper

[shutdown -p now]

Now you can go to the next lecture an ask questions from the previous class. (As a professor, I'm *very* impressed when students do this, because it proves to me that they did something other than drink beer between the end of the last class and the beginning of the next.)

It may be just me, but I'd be more impressed when students would find answers to any questions they may have on their own. After all, that's what the library, and these days even more so the Internet, are there for...

Re:pencil/paper

[Your.Master]

I swear that at least three different people used method #6 in my classes.

Re:pencil/paper

[Pvt_Ryan]

it's called practice. For the first few weeks of lifting weights I got tired at 30 reps 50Kg after a while though i didnt start to tire until 30 reps of 60Kg.

Re:pencil/paper

[noundi]

Absolutely! I have students that take notes on computer, and I think it's a terrible idea. First there is the problem of equations. In the class I teach we introduce a lot of symbols, so even if you have a fast system you would have to find the symbols in a big list. By the time you do, you're probably behind.

Second, note taking is a tool which helps you learn the material better. Transcribing the notes later helps significantly more, because now you get to revisit the material with fresh eyes. Something that may have seemed obvious initially may seem less so when you transcribe them. Now you can go to the next lecture an ask questions from the previous class. (As a professor, I'm *very* impressed when students do this, because it proves to me that they did something other than drink beer between the end of the last class and the beginning of the next.)

Finally taking notes on a computer provides you with many distractions. I know lots of students who claim "I don't get distracted from using a computer", but then my grader or another student informs me the were surfing the web, reading email, IMing, etc. Save yourself from having to avoid these and just use paper.

Your first posed problem can be easily avoided by A) him getting the application which he's asking for, and B) you sending a list of symbols to be used prior to class to have the students prepare themselves. This way they could also sneak a peak at what they mean, which incidently also helps them in learning the material better.

Your second posed problem is more about study technique, and this is a highly individual process. Some benefit from the hammer on technique, others from discussion etc..

Your third and final posed problem is about discipline, and if you lack that then your suggestion will ultimately do them no good as these studends will return to their dorm and instead of studying they will chat or surf anyway. Discipline doesn't derive from prohibition.

Don't try to fight the tools that help ease education, instead fight to make them better. Conservatism is a fools errand. Panta rei.

Re:pencil/paper

[The_Wilschon]

As far as typing odd symbols goes, here's my .xmodmaprc for anyone who wants it. It lets me type in greek symbols, and a few other things, by making the caps lock (original function: worthless) into a new shift key:
! first set caps lock to be a group shift key
keycode 66 = Mode_switch

! Now set up all the keys: first two are the normal qwerty en_US keys, 3rd and 4th are greek characters (or others)
keysym a = a A Greek_alpha Greek_ALPHA
keysym b = b B Greek_beta Greek_BETA
keysym c = c C Greek_psi Greek_PSI
keysym d = d D Greek_delta Greek_DELTA

! there exists
keysym e = e E Greek_epsilon 0x01002203
keysym f = f F Greek_phi Greek_PHI
keysym g = g G Greek_gamma Greek_GAMMA

!hbar
keysym h = h H Greek_eta 0x0100210F

! set ownership
keysym i = i I Greek_iota 0x01002208
keysym j = j J Greek_xi Greek_XI
keysym k = k K Greek_kappa Greek_KAPPA
keysym l = l L Greek_lamda Greek_LAMDA
keysym m = m M Greek_mu Greek_MU
keysym n = n N Greek_nu Greek_NU
keysym o = o O Greek_omicron Greek_OMICRON
keysym p = p P Greek_pi Greek_PI

! partial, del
keysym q = q Q 0x01002202 0x01002207
keysym r = r R Greek_rho Greek_RHO
keysym s = s S Greek_sigma Greek_SIGMA

! dagger
keysym t = t T Greek_tau 0x01002020
keysym u = u U Greek_theta Greek_THETA
keysym v = v V Greek_omega Greek_OMEGA

! times
keysym x = x X Greek_chi 0x010000D7
keysym y = y Y Greek_upsilon Greek_UPSILON
keysym w = w W Greek_finalsmallsigma Greek_SIGMA

! cdot
keysym period = period greater 0x010022C5

!infinity
keysym 8 = 8 asterisk 0x0100221E

! equiv
keysym equal = equal plus 0x01002261
Maybe you don't need as much greek, and instead need more random mathematical symbols. Easy to change things out. The hex codes are 0x01######, where ###### is the unicode hex code for the symbol. In general, with the ucs package, LaTeX understands these.

Re:pencil/paper

[OpenGLFan]

I've actually been looking at this one and the IOGear GPEN 200N...anybody have any experience with them?

I'm guessing any of these digital pens would get you better filesizes and formats than just copying stuff into the notebook and scanning them in later...though as somebody said above, transcribing your notes in LATER gives you a chance to study at the same time...

Re:pencil/paper

[BlindSpot]

Well, since we're on the subject, here's another "solution":

Source the net - he can use reCAPTCHA to translate his scanned notes for him!

Re:pencil/paper

[lithero04]

Finally taking notes on a computer provides you with many distractions. I know lots of students who claim "I don't get distracted from using a computer", but then my grader or another student informs me the were surfing the web, reading email, IMing, etc.

Or reading slashdot during class, like I'm doing right now :)

Re:pencil/paper

[chrisb33]

I think Livescribe's model is much better than IOGear's for taking notes - you don't have to deal with moving the receiver around during class, just turn the pen on to get started (takes ~4 seconds to boot up) and then forget about it. The audio recording is also much more helpful than I expected, especially since you can archive your notebooks for posterity. Last week I wanted to review something I learned last year, so I just typed in the search and got to hear a five-minute lecture about it :)

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

There are people (including me) who are very slow writers. I always had massive problems in school because I wasn't able to follow the explanations of the professor since I was fully occupied with writing. Also I often had problems with tests for the same reason (couldn't bring all my knowledge to paper in time). In the few subjects were I could use a laptop I excelled. I still drew diagrams, formulas etc. by hand and simply referenced them in the document. Sure a computer can provide all kinds of distractions but for me it was a real godsend. :)

Re:pencil/paper

[jeremyp]

Handwriting is just too physically draining for what you get out of it. Pen and paper are for *short* notes to myself, marking up copy, etc. Everything else is 1s and 0s.

For fuck's sake. What do you think we used to do in olden days before there were laptop computers? I went through college, not only writing my notes in lectures with my bare hands but also copying them out neatly later with my bare hands.

There's this amazing thing with muscles, if you use them they get stronger.

Re:pencil/paper

[osymandias]

The quality of my notes (and subsequent work) increased considerably when I started taking notes on a computer rather than on pen and paper. My handwriting was sufficiently unreadable that indices, subscripts, negation signs would all get lost all over the place. Not only that, my mind is less organised on paper than on a computer. Having organised notes would last as long as it took for the first correction or addendum to appear, at which point they'd degenerate into random pieces of text scrawled all over the place, equations inset in boxes in the corner of a page, seemingly random conclusions that were referencing something I'd yet to write. They would inevitably get abandoned later when I came to look over them and couldn't work out what I was talking about. In the end, I gave up writing hand written notes altogether. The structure provided by LaTeX, on the other hand, I found perfect for formalising notes, and those that I took in this way were usually perfectly coherent and detailed - in fact I believe a set of them is now in use by one of my previous lecturers as his set of notes. After a while, I was even able to replicate graphs and other diagrams (using the PGF/TikZ package) during lectures. I'm sure it's not the solution for everybody - I'd be very surprised if it were - but neither is pen and paper always the right answer.

Re:pencil/paper

[mqduck]

Second, note taking is a tool which helps you learn the material better.

Why does that mean taking notes on a laptop is a bad idea? Maybe you think drawing a Q makes it stick in your mind more than hitting the Q button... but, speaking only for myself, I don't think that's the case. On the contrary, it allows me to pay attention to what I'm writing, not to physically writing it (typing has become second nature, but not writing by hand).

Re:pencil/paper

[dgatwood]

I'm a pianist, which means my finger muscles were quite strong Indeed, strong hand muscles are precisely why my hands cramped while writing; stronger hands tend to lend themselves to a tighter grip on the pencil, harder pressure on the paper, etc., all of which contribute to muscle fatigue and injury.

And then there was the time when I sprained by thumb and had to write with a pencil between my first three fingers. Boy, did that drive the teachers nuts trying to read it. That was when I switched to typing everything I could, because writing was extremely difficult (and somewhat painful). I haven't looked back. I found that I could type several times as quickly as I could write by hand, which meant I had more time for myself instead of wasting it on the B.S. busywork that the school wanted me to waste my time on. Even if you ignore the discomfort angle, writing stuff out longhand for all but the shortest messages is an incredible waste of time.

Re:pencil/paper

[stephanruby]

There's this amazing thing with muscles, if you use them they get stronger.

Not me. I have anti-muscles, if I use them a lot -- I start crying.

Re:pencil/paper

[jschen]

Sure, I can type more quickly than I can write words, too. But how quickly can you sketch a complex 3D chemical structure on a keyboard, or even with a mouse? Or draw a force diagram for a physics problem? Short of having a large tablet in front of you and a stylus (i.e. the closest electronic equivalent of pencil and paper), there's many situations where pencil (or pen if you're willing) really is the way to go. One should use the right tool for the task at hand. I use a computer all the time. I am exceptionally fast and proficient with ChemDraw and can type well over 100 wpm sustained. But when I want to just quickly sketch out something important since my mind's having a streak of useful thoughts, pen or pencil is my tool of choice because of the flexibility and speed it gives me. This, coming from a 21st century postdoc headed toward an academic career.

Re:pencil/paper

[oPless]

http://www.livescribe.com/

I have one of these, and I wish I had one at uni/school. it's awesome. go look at it.

Re:pencil/paper

[blueg3]

I could type for a week without getting tired; you don't have to tightly grip a keyboard.

Handwriting is just too physically draining for what you get out of it.

Fortunately you don't have to write for a week without getting tired; you only need to write for something like four hours a day. If you can't write for four hours a day, five days a week, then you ought to learn how to write properly.

Re:pencil/paper

[Darinbob]

Ah, then this is a skill you should practice and learn. When you get out of college and into the real world, you will need to take notes with pen and paper. If you're on a Jury the judge will not let you use a laptop or even a voice recorder. There will not be enough room at the conference table for everyone to put down a laptop; and you shouldn't assume you will get an expensive luxury item like a laptop at your early jobs, or that you'll be allowed to bring your own. You will need to take notes when there are no tables available because everyone is in a chair.

Re:pencil/paper

[jschen]

That's all nice and well when taking notes that somewhat resemble writing. But drawing complex figures simply is not fast on a computer. And ASCII art, while very pretty, certainly isn't the solution to that problem.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be more impressed when students would find answers to any questions they may have on their own. After all, that's what the library, and these days even more so the Internet, are there for...

Why go to the library when there is a large group of people who are learning the same things you are? I always tried to make a few friends in each class I took. It allowed me to ask them any questions I may have had and they could do the same with me. It's been my experience that you can think you've learned something, but the only way you know you've learned it is if you can explain it to others.

Most of the time, we were able to answer the questions on our own without involving the teacher. But in the cases where we couldn't, it was a good indication that the teacher hadn't explained it clearly and further explanation would benefit the entire class.

People have the misconception that what makes good schools good is good teachers. But that's only half of what makes them good. The other half is grouping intelligent students together. Students who don't take advantage of the opportunity to learn from their classmates aren't getting the best education they can.

Re:pencil/paper

[Darinbob]

It helps to get a really good pen too. I used to have problems with ball point pens, but getting a nice easy low friction roller ball, or a fountain pen, and you don't need to use any pressure on the pen.

Re:pencil/paper

[MrCrassic]

I think that taking digital notes can be an excellent aid to a student's studies, IF they write them down afterwards for retention. It helped me get through every math-oriented course I needed to take.

I also think that students who are more inclined to slack off will do so regardless on whether the notes are transcribed digitally or on paper. It's not like students didn't find any other interesting ways to distract themselves before laptops got cheap...Plus, if the student sits towards the front, it's very difficult for them to get away with the slacker behavior anyway

Finally, I think holding notes digitally is a significantly better alternative than writing them up and scanning them later. With the latter option, you have to actually remember to scan those notes or risk losing them. Some people are excellent about keeping their notes archived, but I lose paper notes left and right. If I don't need them, it'll probably disappear within thirty days. On the other hand, all of my typed up notes since freshman year (I'm a fifth-year senior now) have survived. Again, had I actually written those notes up afterwards, I probably would've done better on the exams, but I was a stupid Freshman...spare me. :)

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, he just needs to get better writing utensils. Cheap Bic-type pens suck for writing, but switch to a decent fountain pen and it gets a lot easier. In terms of finger/hand stress, it's like the difference between an old Remington manual typewriter and a modern laptop.

Re:pencil/paper

[arthurpaliden]

To quote my prof in assemble language application and design: (back in the day, 36 hrs per week classes and labs) "If you insist on more that 4 hours of sleep a night you have no hope of graduating."

Re:pencil/paper

[microbox]

Second, note taking is a tool which helps you learn the material better. Transcribing the notes later helps significantly more

This might be fine for struggling or disinterested students, however, good students already have their way of doing things. I find this approach tedious, precisely because it's less efficient than the technique that I use -- which is to learn whatever material through a cued-recall task. Setting up the cues is an *excellent* way to process information at a level *far* deeper than copying down notes. I'd prefer just to get the syllabus and slides from the professor, and then sit in class and *listen*, which is also a very good skill to cultivate.

There are other techniques you can use to improve students recall, besides enforcing a somewhat mediocre level of processing! Basically you want the students to continuously relearn the material, so weekly quizs, small mid-terms and a cumulative exam. This takes advantage of the "spacing effect". In the big picture, a testing schedule that allows for cramming is really inefficient.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Another problem with handwritten notes is that many people experience serious hand cramping after writing continuously for an hour. I could type for a week without getting tired; you don't have to tightly grip a keyboard. I stopped writing stuff by hand entirely back in junior high, with the exception of a couple of teachers who didn't like typed stuff. Handwriting is just too physically draining for what you get out of it. Pen and paper are for *short* notes to myself, marking up copy, etc. Everything else is 1s and 0s.

You must be from North America or Europe? I studied my school, undergrad and doctorate in Asia all by writing with my hands. The only times I used a computer was to type official papers, because I did not own a computer until I got my doctorate. Of course, in elementary school, we got beaten for bad handwriting.

Re:pencil/paper

[PachmanP]

It may be just me, but I'd be more impressed when students would find answers to any questions they may have on their own. After all, that's what the library, and these days even more so the Internet, are there for...

Well you're already paying $collegetuition basically so you can ask the prof questions, and a prof is slightly more interactive than the library. Well at least some prof.s.

Re:pencil/paper

[Eudial]

It's a matter of technique. If your writing form is bad, it is going to be painful. It doesn't matter if you play the piano or not. Try to move your hand instead of your fingers when you write. It makes a world of difference.

Re:pencil/paper

[alexanderr]

And how can you draw that same complex 3D chemical structure on paper without having artistic skills. This was a huge problem with a number of classmates in my class. When taking notes in physics and chemisty we drew the diagrams so badly that we could not understand what it is that we had on paper. In the end we had to find related image on google and attach it to our notes. How well you can draw a model cannot be used as an indicator of how well you understand the subject My classmate was a brilliant student but had negative drawing skills. Next issue is that physics is dynamic. My class had the hardest time in the world connecting still diagrams drawn by teacher on board that were suppose to explain relative motion of frames of reference. When reviewing our drawn diagrams in books it barely made any sense as we struggled to visualise how one diagram is supposedly moves in a certain way relative to another diagram. Notes with animations embedded in them would have gotten us a much higher grade. Yes, it is close to impossible to take this level of notes in class while teacher is speaking. In fact, i cannot take notes while someone is speaking because i miss everything thats said while i am writing. I usually just listen, and then make notes on my own time using other materials. It would be really nice if teachers would provide a base file with all the fancy information already in and then students can modify and/or add their own content as teacher explains the material given out.

Re:pencil/paper

[syousef]

I got excellent grades at both undergrad and masters level. My handwriting has always been awful, despite great effort since primary school. I only took notes when I had no other option, which was rare. It may help some people. Others it just drives mad, and wastes their time.

I went back and taught a couple of elective subjects after Uni. I always provided notes. I did not have any problems with students staying awake, or with a lack of learning, or with attendance. That's probably because I wasn't just reading the damn notes parrot fashion.

Re:pencil/paper

[ceoyoyo]

"Code up a Math Module for Dragon Naturally speaking."

Hm. Interesting.

Actually, I would love to have a good program for inputting math naturally. Either OCR on scanned hand written pages or an as-you-write-it option that would grab it directly from a tablet.

Preparing equations for publication is a horrendous experience in MS Equation Editor and still a pain using Latex. If I could just write them, that would be fantastic.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

He came to Slashdot looking for a computer solution, or an automated/digitizing solution. If you want to be like that, go yell at the kids out front walking on your grass. This is Slashdot! (kicks you into the hole)

Re:pencil/paper

[shutdown -p now]

Why go to the library when there is a large group of people who are learning the same things you are? I always tried to make a few friends in each class I took. It allowed me to ask them any questions I may have had and they could do the same with me. It's been my experience that you can think you've learned something, but the only way you know you've learned it is if you can explain it to others.

You make a good point. However, in practice, the two groups (one with students asking questions to another students, and the other with students having answers for the first group) are uneven. I was in the second group, and virtually everyone else who was, was there because we looked up answers on our own.

But yes, the idea that you find out how good you really know something when you try to explain it in clear and concise terms to someone else who doesn't know it yet, is spot on.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a pianist, which means my finger muscles were quite strong Indeed, strong hand muscles are precisely why my hands cramped while writing; stronger hands tend to lend themselves to a tighter grip on the pencil, harder pressure on the paper, etc., all of which contribute to muscle fatigue and injury.
As a fencer, archer, and pianist...
A habit of maintaining a needlessly strong grip is what lends itself to a needlessly strong grip.

Re:pencil/paper

[jschen]

The thing is, how one draws something is a decisive factor in how one views something. The two go hand in hand, and must be practiced. How one draws a molecule has everything to do with how well one understands what it really looks like. I consider myself non-artistic, but can crank out 3D chemical structures quite readily. It's simply a matter of practicing the skill.

Re:pencil/paper

[captjc]

I can solve a math problem on paper, I just prefer to use a calculator. Just because someone prefers to take notes on a computer doesn't mean you should assume that they cannot use paper.

Re:pencil/paper

[Lord Crc]

I'm a pianist, which means my finger muscles were quite strong Indeed, strong hand muscles are precisely why my hands cramped while writing; stronger hands tend to lend themselves to a tighter grip on the pencil, harder pressure on the paper, etc., all of which contribute to muscle fatigue and injury.

Two things which help me a lot. I use 0.7mm instead of the typical 0.5mm pens, and I use a pen which has a sufficiently large grip. The wider line prevents me from ending up drawing minuscule symbols which really strains the fine motor muscles. The larger grip makes it more comfortable to hold over time.

The pen I'm currently using is a Pilot Alphagel, which for some reason seems to be unavailable in the US.

Re:pencil/paper

[Spacelem]

Not true at all. During my first degree (before I switched to maths) I had to frantically copy down notes off PowerPoint slides that I didn't have a hope of getting it all (this is where I learnt my dislike of PowerPoint). We regularly had four hours of lectures in a row, and my wrist cramped up so badly it hurt for ages afterwards. In the end, picking up a pen made my wrist tense up and hurt after only five minutes.

When I started doing maths, PowerPoint wasn't very popular, and most lecturers used a blackboard and chalk. Also the lecture scheduling tended to be two hours, then an hour break, then one hour, with occasional fourth lecture in the afternoon. I still had difficulties with my wrist, but it wasn't quite as bad (although during revision period it got really bad again). However, I also spent a lot of time on the computer, and using the mouse was very painful, so I try to use it as rarely as possible (and I'm obviously not an emacs user for much the same reason).

As for writing implement, I used a fountain pen until I started maths when it became too smudgy, then I switched to biro and pencil (I've noticed that paper quality has decreased in recent years, and it can be difficult to find paper that fountain pens write cleanly on). Since I started my PhD I've had relatively little writing to do, and my hand has mostly recovered.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm...."profit" is missing from those steps.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

6. Hire a plant to continually ask inane questions during lecture, giving you more time to input those equations in LaTeX.

If you can find a plant that can talk, I think you can skip from college to millionaire pretty quickly. That's assuming you don't accidentally smoke the plant first.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

And we loved it!! (SNL)

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a roommate that tried to use his laptop to take his Calc 1 notes, it didnt work out very well for him as he kept falling behind the prof when he couldnt type fast enough. A test they took had been announced as open notes so he brought his laptop and booted it when he got his booklet. Prof asked wtf he was doing, he said getting his notes out and the prof told him to either put it away or gtfo. That resulted in a 30min cry-fest on the phone with his mom.

The kid also told me he didnt need my help with his homework "as I can see you doing your math homework on your computer every night, Calc 1 is some hard stuff and I'm not sure you understand it", I was a chem eng major in my junior year, doing fluid dynamics on MathCAD.

Re:pencil/paper

[nine-times]

I've found that really is the best way to take notes. When you're taking notes in the first place, it's best for them to be as quick and free-form as possible, allowing you to put down your understanding of what you're hearing very quickly and accurately. Nothing beats pencil and paper for that yet. You can draw little diagrams, draw symbols, circle things, write more important things bigger, drag big arrows from one note to another, or whatever else you like. It's very intuitive and easy.

Then later go back the same day (while you can still remember why you wrote your notes the way you did) and transcribe those notes into a formal digital form. Not only will the repetition of writing it all out again help your memory, but having to put things in the more constricted form will help you sort the ideas out. You draw a big funky diagram to help you understand how ideas were connected. Great. Now write that out in a word processor so that you'll be sure to understand it later. That process itself will help deepen your understanding of what you've learned.

The funny thing about this is that I found that if I went through this process pretty thoroughly, I hardly needed the notes later. Sure, they were useful to have and I would refer to them for minor details, but I would understand and remember things so much better without the notes after I had hand-written them free-form and then transcribed them into a formal format.

Re:pencil/paper

[tenco]

If you have time for taking lecture notes again. I don't.

Re:pencil/paper

[ResidentSourcerer]

Lots of people try and discard computer systems quickly.

But: How long did it take to learn the interface for
your pencil? If you're a clutz, like me, it took 3-4 years
of grade school to get bad at it.

I remember spending 20 minutes every day doing exercises in
palmer method penmanship for grades 5-8. Only thing that did
was give me a cursive Q that no one else recognizes.

Typing class in high school was an hour a day for a semester.
At the end of that I could type faster than I could write, but I can't type as fast as most people talk.

When I'm writing, my head gets ahead of my fingers, and sentences get left incomplete, paragraphs run together. It's
better with typing, worse with writing.

When doing math, most of my mistakes happen when my head gets too far ahead of my pencil -- the pencil is busy doing the
recopy bits from the previous equation, and I drop bits.

An equation entry system that was more or less wysiwyg on the screen, but as fast or faster to enter than pencil would be a boon to teaching mathematics. It would be well worth investing 50-100 hours of high school class time to learn.

THEN computers could highlight errors as you type.

NO one has a computer aided instruction program for math
where all the steps are done on the computer screen, and
the computer verifies that the steps are correct.

Many highschool teachers lit and social teachers require that homework, particularly essays, be typed. No one requires typed math homework.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

those pens suck. the software is a joke, the recording is spotty.

Re:pencil/paper

[tabrnaker]

You dont have to tightly grip a pen or pencil either! In fact, you never should. If you do, you obviously dont know how to use one, consider taking lessons.

Learn to loosen up!

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Paper? In the old days we used mud and clay tablets and a sharp stick!

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree the argument "Handwriting is just too physically draining..." is pretty stupid. There really is no need to curse though. By the way your over use of "my bare hands" to get your point across could make it sound like you have gifted hands, in that you did not need a pencil or pen (as you do not mention them), or you just do not like gloves.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

I second this recommendation. The LiveScribe pen greatly exceeded my expectations and is now one of my favorite gadgets. It even has a nice implementation of its software for the mac. I wish I had something like this when I was in college.

Re:pencil/paper

[drdrgivemethenews]

When I was in school (20 years ago), I took notes with pencil and paper. They allow me to draw and diagram things, arrange things in blocks and illustrate relationships in a way that text just can't. If I had to replicate the effects on a computer, it would require a cross between Visio, Matlab, LaTeX or variant, a vector drawing application and a word processor. And it wouldn't be worth it--the point of it all is processing the material in a way so as to learn it. This doesn't require typesetting.

Back then the PalmOS showed some promise, but all I really wanted was editable ink. It's a pain to rearrange things on paper, yet would be a piece of cake with cut-and-paste for ink. The Palm folks were all over character recognition and other stuff that I didn't really need and never thought about just doing the simple stuff.

Nothing's changed--I'd still like a kindle-like device I could take handwritten notes on, and do a modest amount of ink-level editing on. Post processing the handwritten text to enable searching would be a nice v2 feature.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

The symbols from a big list implies that you are point-clicky. At least TeX based things are saner $\Omega$ is what you might guess it would be. The problem with this is when you get a prof who doesn't know the mapping from Greek letters to the symbols they write. So if you hear $\Phi$ and they write $\Psi$ and in fact both are the equation it's a disaster -- but it's a disaster even if you are writing out with pen and paper. TeX formatting is pretty fast once you get used to it.

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

For those who missed point 9:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-039-s-Speech-Recognition-Engine-is-Laughable-31413.shtml

gewg_

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, but think of the trees!!!

Is hemp paper ok?

Re:pencil/paper

[Anonymous Coward]

You had pencils and paper - luxury!
When I were a lad we chiseled our notes on stone tablets

ASCIIMathML

[anidiot]

http://www1.chapman.edu/~jipsen/mathml/asciimath.html

Re:ASCIIMathML

[CyrusOmega]

Wow, never thought I would see that again. I actually used this for a web site in high school several years ago and it did very well. I am actually the one that ended up making the little logo that's at the bottom of that page so I could advertise it on our site in the "powered by/this-site-uses" section. Don't go bashing my artistic abilities from the 9th grade :)

Re:ASCIIMathML

[mt1955]

this was the best answer on page .. pls mod him up again

Old school

[Darth Maul]

Keep it simple - pen and paper.

Re:Old school

[Fry-kun]

Second.

I've tried it all and pen&paper is the best choice.

Re:Old school

[BigHungryJoe]

aren't math people supposed to use pencil?

Re:Old school

[megamerican]

aren't math people supposed to use pencil?

Only if you're one of those people who make mistakes. Obviously no one on /. would fit in this category.

Re:Old school

[swanzilla]

aren't math people supposed to use pencil?

Not the good ones. It is akin to doing the Sunday Times crossword in ink...quiet statement of superiority.

Re:Old school

[apenzott]

I quit using pencil when I had a calculus instructor that sped through examples faster than any pencil (mechanical, #6, other) could keep up with. I switched to pen as it was the only writing implement that could keep up without fail.

Errors were corrected in-line as a mark-up.

Re:Old school

[Jarik C-Bol]

when i was in college, i started out taking notes with a pencil in spiral bound notebooks. i found out fast that by the end of the semester, what with lugging that notebook around in my backpack, that the first 50+ pages appeared blank by the end of the semester. pencil literally wore off/smudged away from the jostling in the backpack. i converted to pen, and carrying the notebooks in 2 zip up binders. (1 for monday wednesday friday classes, and another for tuesday thursday classes)
not having your notes self erase > not having to mark out and re-write when you make a mistake.

Re:Old school

[rainmaestro]

Not always. Pencils have a number of downsides:

--If you are a lefty like me, you end up rubbing off half the page while writing. Quick-drying pens work best here.
--If you're an engineering student, pencil is damn near impossible to see on your typical green engineering paper.
--Some courses explicitly require pens. You are never allowed to use pencils in surveying courses, all notebook entries must be in pen (think "chain of custody", you have to be able to prove nothing has been altered).
--Fast talking professors are usually easier to keep up with when using pens. The smoothness of the stroke allows you to write rapidly.

Personally, I stopped using pencils in middle school for everything but scantrons.

Re:Old school

[fizzup]

I knew a constipated mathematician who worked it out with a pencil.

Re:Old school

[Mr. Slippery]

i found out fast that by the end of the semester, what with lugging that notebook around in my backpack, that the first 50+ pages appeared blank by the end of the semester. pencil literally wore off/smudged away from the jostling in the backpack.

What the heck were you writing with, a 10H pencil? Took all my notes in pencil in high school, college, grad school, and massage school, and never saw anything like that.

Re:Old school

[dominious]

only reasonable reply in this thread. I mean for fuck sake do you want to pay attention to the lecture or on how to input all those damn equations in your fancy software? mod parent up.

Re:Old school

[Jarik C-Bol]

just a one of those refillable mechanical pencils, 0.7 HB i think.

Re:Old school

[u38cg]

Pen as well, I just keep a red pen handy for clarifying any errors that scribbling and re-writing don't help with.

Re:Old school

[syrinx]

A physics professor goes to the university dean and asks for more money for lab equipment. The dean says, "You physicists always need more money. Why can't you be like the mathematicians? All they need are paper, pencils, and trashcans. Or even better, why not like sociologists? All they need are paper and pencils."

Re:Old school

[stefanlasiewski]

Math people don't make mistakes. They press their formulas into clay tablets and leave them for future students to read in 4000 years.

Re:Old school

[Anonymous Coward]

I used a drafting pen in graduate school. I print faster than I write. No wasted time erasing, just draw a line through what you think is an error. What you think is an error may not be and you might need to be able to read it later.

Re:Old school

[xaxa]

Personally, I stopped using pencils in middle school for everything but scantrons.

Doesn't everyone? I remember it was a big deal (for me) when I stopped writing in pencil and started writing with a pen -- I was probably about 7, and I haven't written in pencil since.
(In fact, I'd have to rummage around to find a pencil in my room. There's probably one at the back of a drawer somewhere...)

Re:Old school

[advocate_one]

aren't math people supposed to use pencil?

no, they work it out with logs...

and that's a very old joke that an awful lot of the young ones won't get...

Re:Old school

[Anonymous Coward]

In high school my mathematics teacher insisted we use pens because "it will make you think before you put a solution on paper." I have to agree it worked for the most part though at university we were allowed to use pencils which I did for tests and examinations but at home for the practice questions I used a pen.

Re:Old school

[tenco]

I use pencil for years and had never such problems. Maybe just bad paper/pencil combination.

Use Paper

[Anonymous Coward]

There is this ancient technology called "paper" which may suit your purpose.

Once you get into higher math, you'll start using more and more symbols that require correct layout in order to display correctly. There are also these things called "graphs" and "diagrams" which are very hard to type, but rather easy to draw.

Re:Use Paper

[fluch]

It is sometimes surprising how well ancient technology still works and outperforms all the new technology.

And on the other hand it is sad to see that less and less attention is paid in school to handwriting. If I look at the weekly exercise solutions my students hand in ... it is 90% of the time it is horrible! :-/

Writing?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about taking notes with pen and paper and then transcribing to your laptop later? Ok it doesn't directly answer your needs but I always found I remembered things a lot better if I took notes the old fashioned way before putting them on the computer.

paint

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft paint

Re:paint

[Anonymous Coward]

microsoft *pain*.... fix that for ya.

Re:paint

[igny]

I just copy/paste (as we go) from the digital notes of my friend who took the same class in previous semester.

Tex Faster

[BrokenSegue]

Seriously. It's not that hard. Practice.

Re:Tex Faster

[Anonymous Coward]

Use the auctex mode in emacs, which *greatly* reduces the number of keystrokes you need.

That combined with x-symbol let me take notes in graduate math classes for an experiment.

Re:Tex Faster

[FlyingBishop]

Don't trivialize it. It is hard. But it's the best solution.

Re:Tex Faster

[Dirk Ruffly]

Granted, I'm old school. But with a Ph.D. in EE, I've copied a boatload of equations from boards, onto boards, into papers, ad nauseum. I've tried every equation editor out there (this might be a slight exaggeration) and I have to agree that TeX is the best solution. TeX takes some learning, and that's by no means a trivial effort. The most powerful tools we have (like, say, language) take effort to master but the payoff is grand. I've found that when writing papers, and especially when I was writing my dissertation, that equation entry using TeX was almost as fast as I could write with pen and paper and in some cases a bit faster thanks to macros.

The real issue for the original poster, however, is taking notes in class. I have to agree with other replies here: use a notebook and a pen (or pencil, whichever suits you) and scribble your notes. Then transcribe later. Effectively, you will do this later anyway in the process of reviewing your notes and, hopefully, learning from them.

Finally, for my money, take the absolute minimum notes you can get away with. Taking notes during class splits your attention between writing and listening to the lecture. Depending on the instructor, that can get you behind the curve very quickly. I have always found that trying to stay a chapter ahead in the text, which I can do at my own pace and in my own time, was the best way to learn from a knowledgeable teacher. That way you can just listen, follow along, reinforce what you've been working on at your own pace, and when the occasional gem of wisdom comes along (or one of your misconceptions is corrected) you can scribble a few words that will jog your memory later.

But that's just me. YMMV.

Good luck in your studies!

Ruffly

Re:Tex Faster

[skeeto]

For awhile I was using TeXmacs, which is combination of Emacs and TeX WYSIWYG. After getting accustomed to it, typing out equations is really fast. I haven't used it in several years, though.

Re:Tex Faster

[WhiteHorse-The Origi]

I currently use TexMacs with Maxima. It's like Mathematica with macro support. Just read all the docs and make your own macros. You'll be typing integrals with one key-stroke.

Pen and Paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Take notes by hand in these formula rich lectures, and enter them into the computer when you review your notes.

LyX

[SashaM]

LyX

With some practice (and appropriate shortcuts), you can enter formulas faster than you can write them down with a pen.

Touchpad

[abigor]

Apparently as of Snow Leopard, the touchpad can now do handwriting recognition. So you may already have all the tools you need with your MacBook. I've never tried this particular functionality, though it sounds cool.

Re:Touchpad

[ColdWetDog]

apparently that's for Chinese only....

Re:Touchpad

[HTH NE1]

Snow Leopard also has a text substitution feature you could use. Come up with a unique trigger text and you can replace, say, !inf with the infinity symbol, and use a font that has all the symbols you'll need present. In most programs, look under Edit for Substitutions.

I use ! as an example because in regular use, there's very few things that can logically follow an exclamation point, and requires only a slight change in style for programming.

If it isn't enough, try TextExpander or TypeIt4Me. I hear they can do rich text substitution to get your subscripts and superscripts as needed.

Re:Touchpad

[David Nabbit]

Since you're already on a Mac, and may already have Snow Leopard, the text substitution would probably be the easiest and least expensive way to go.

Windows 7

[thefogger]

If you do choose to invest in a Wacom tablet, Windows 7 comes with a math input panel:

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2008/10/29/windows-7-math-input-panel-screenshots

It's not very usable with a mouse, though.

Re:Windows 7

[thanasakis]

Did you notice that the screenshots contained serious errors? In screenshot 1, the "h" was identified as an alpha, in screenshot 2 the h was identified as b.

Re:Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

seconded. I have win7 on a tablet.

The tablet was pretty useful with vista + office (pen input) + one note

now with win7 the tablet input is revolutionary, the math input panel generally "just works", and learns your alpha/infinity/n etc scribble style fast.

Pen and Paper

[damn_registrars]

Meets your criteria:

• Cheap
• Doesn't take up much space
• Excellent battery life
• Expandable

If you really want to get fancy you could write with erasable ink or (gasp) a pencil in case you make mistakes in your notes.

Then invest a little money in a scanner with a sheet feeder so you can digitize your notes quickly after every lecture.

this guy will be a virgin forever

[Anonymous Coward]

there's no way this guy is having sex. ever.

Old School

[jimktrains]

Pencil and paper. I had this issue in both my math and chemistry classes. It was defiantly worth it to just do it on paper and then translate them into teX later.

Analog

[Pete Venkman]

I encountered this problem too during my last year and a half in uni, so I used a low-tech solution. When I needed to put an equation in my notes, I would type "See EQ. 1-1" and fill up a piece of paper with equations. Later on (that day or the next), while reviewing my notes I would look up the eq on my sheet and type it into my notes the correct way.

Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[jsac]

Windows 7 now features a math input panel, which converts handwritten mathematics to MathML. You can see screenshots at this link: http://www.gottabemobile.com/2008/10/29/windows-7-math-input-panel-screenshots

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[Anonymous Coward]

Something tells me that if its failing on high school level algebra equations, its certainly not going to do well with advanced mathematics.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[Chryana]

I was a math major not so long ago, and I used a tablet pc at the time... It worked fairly well, although I never digitized what I wrote down, and didn't really look into it either. I'm not sure you would get good results with a Wacom tablet though. I know another student in a class (computer, this time) I took tried that, and he could not even read what he wrote. So if you decide to try it, you may want to keep your receipt. Good luck.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[ShadowRangerRIT]

Except the screenshots are all showing success. It's not failing.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[budhaboy]

oh my. handwriting recognition of math formulae on a windows 7 platform running on a ibook pro... Can't imagine any problems there...

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[iivel]

Actually the screenshots show it failing to recognize an "h" in two seperate instances.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[Anonymous Coward]

seems reasonable for K12 stuff, but it took me seconds to find ways to make it break and even "select and correct" was unable to provide me with the correct symbol.

^
-
x

is the estimated mean... it can't do it. closest i get is

~
-
x

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... I'm going to go ahead and ask you to review those two first screenshot. Yeah...

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[OhPlz]

It's not a solution for the geek that asked the question, but it could be for others.

I use a Fujitsu Lifebook for note taking. With Office 2010, OneNote finally has native MathML support. You could use the Windows 7 math input panel for interactive entry or you can just scribble in OneNote directly and use its "convert to math" command when you're ready. Best of both worlds. For anyone wanting to go that route, the Office 2010 public beta opens up in November. I've been using the Technical Preview since it was first offered and haven't had any problems.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[drizek]

The problem with that is that it won't let you type in text, so I still can't find a way to write something like "Power in Watts/Q*[greek letter]*1.421"

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[kauttapiste]

That's actually pretty cool, I didn't know that.

As I'm running Win7 at work so I just had to give this a go. With my mousing skills it takes quite a while to get the equation right. I would imagine it's very difficult to use that on a netbook. A factor slower than pen and paper anyway. For transferring your math from paper to computer I can see good use for this, though.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[G2GAlone]

Agreed. The math input panel is a great tool. Even when it doesn't recognize the variable/symbol/number you tried to write, it only takes a couple quick clicks to fix it. I've played around with it for quite some time and would find it very useful in any sort of class that dealt with equations.

Re:Windows 7 now has a math input panel

[Anonymous Coward]

The great thing here is that you don't have to screw up your notes by hand anymore. The input panel will screw them up for you: http://www.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/mathinput2.jpg

OpenOffice works

[Anonymous Coward]

The OpenOffice equation editor is just typing markup text; it's a steep learning curve, but once I got the hang of it I could keep up with any prof.

Re:OpenOffice works

[wed128]

I agree. This is what i used for freshman level physics courses in college.

For math courses though (and higher math-heavy physics courses) i reverted to a good quad rule composition book. can't beat it!

t3hfr3ak

[Anonymous Coward]

There is one on TigerDirect that is called Adesso CyberPad. Anything you write on in is saved into its internal memory for transfer to PC later on. check it out

Mathematica

[raybob]

http://www.wolfram.com/products/

is a lot of fun to play with, does computation & all kinds of neat tricks in addition to typesetting.

$139 for the student version, available for the Mac.

Re:Mathematica

[ClashTheBunny]

'I second this. This is the FASTEST way to input information into a computer. Check with your school, sometimes there are license servers that you can hook up to. It takes maybe a week and you learn all of the "esc-s-esc" (sigma), "esc-int-esc" (Integral), ctrl-6 does superscript, ctrl-5 or 7 I don't remember does underscore, etc. All of it is immediately visible so you never make syntax errors and you never have to take your hands off of the keyboard. You also can do the computations real time and correct all of your prof's mistakes.

Re:Mathematica

[ppanon]

Yep, the use of the Windows 7 math handwriting recognition in tablet mode integrated into Mathematica looks like it would be pretty useful. Has anybody used it and is able to comment on whether its performance is as good as the propaganda says?

Re:Mathematica

[wanax]

I'd third this.. especially since Mathematica 8 is going to interface smoothly with wolfram alpha which already is pretty smart about turning typed equations into mathematica equations. But I personally still would recommend pencil and paper. Direct motor involvement is really important to learning.

Re:Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

bragging contest.... u win

Re:Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

Borland had a product in the 1980s called Eureka that was very good. I never bought it but enjoyed the articles every month in their magazine to see what problems Eureka could address.

Re:Mathematica

[Interoperable]

The trouble is that it's either expensive or illegal. The student version is about $180 I think. That's a great value for Mathematica but not for an equation editor. If you need the software anyways, it's a terrific investment but otherwise, not so much.

Paper

[Carik]

Why not use a paper notebook in class, and just enter the equations into the computer later?

If you absolutely insist on a technical solution, how about:

- using macros. Use something like OO.o's auto expand feature (whatever they call it), so that when you type exp-1 it translates to ^-1, or intl expands to integral.

- using shorthand. Find a set of shorthand layouts that work for you, then run search and replace later to make them what they're actually supposed to be. The same examples as above work -- just without the macros.

To be honest, though, you're probably best off either using pencil and paper or just improving your typing speed.

Re:Paper

[ari_j]

I took notes in law school by typing and in undergrad by hand. The reason had nothing to do with availability of technology, but was entirely driven by what was the most efficient solution for the classes I was taking. In law school, good notes take the form of copious amounts of prose, and I can type very quickly and accurately without as much focus as it takes to write both slower and less legibly. In my undergraduate classes, which were predominantly math and computer science, good notes took the form of complicated formulas and the like, and I could write them by hand faster than I could ever type the equivalents (especially that day in Cryptological Mathematics when we ran out of Latin and Greek letters for the variables in a particular problem and had to start using Arabic and Hebrew characters).

Long story short: Use the best tool for the job. For some jobs, pen and paper are unbeatable and will always be unbeatable. If you really want a nicely-typeset formula later on, you can transcribe your notes as needed. No typing-based solution is going to be as accurate (in the sense that you can spot and correct mistakes at a glance later on) as writing them out by hand, and using a digitizer slows you down more than just using pen and paper would because of the transition time back and forth. If you are really taking hard math classes, you probably don't have time to switch from typing to digitizing and back in the heat of the moment.

Amazing new technology

[Anonymous Coward]

There's this amazing new technology that utilizes droplets of colored pigmentation that adhere via cohesion to sheets of a fibrous cellulose material. Ask your chemistry professor about it.

MapleSoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Try to use Maple vs 12 or higher. It parses the equations beautifully.

--M

Latexit

[Anonymous Coward]

Try Latex it http://pierre.chachatelier.fr/programmation/latexit_en.php it's a great free program for making equations in latex on the mac

TeX to the rescue

[Florian Weimer]

f_X(x) = integral(-infinity, infinity, f(x,y) dy)

Just type $$f_X(x) = \int_\infty^\infty f(x,y) dy$$ instead.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[melikamp]

Say, you are doing probability and have to write a bunch of integrals over the real line. Then you can prepare this:

\newcommand{\fX}{f_X(x)}
\newcommand{\intii}{\mathop{\int_{-\infty}^\infty}}

or

\newcommand{\intR}{\mathop{\int_{\mathbb R}}}

and later use

\[ \fX = \intii f(x,y)dy \]

Re:TeX to the rescue

[budhaboy]

you forgot the minus sign on the lower bound.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

With auctex math mode, you can enter \infty with " `I", which further speeds things up.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[mako1138]

I know you're joking, but I'm pretty sure this dude in my plasma physics class took notes in TeX. And this was the sort of class that fills up blackboards several times over the course of the period.

I should mention though that the guy who did this won the University Medal, which is awarded to the top graduating senior at UC Berkeley.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

I realise this was meant as a joke, but with a bunch of good editor macros (emacs/vim to the rescue) you can type equations in LaTeX extremely quickly. I took class notes for four years during my studies (splitting the work with others, collecting corrections from other students etc.), and towards the end was more than twice as fast as the professor usually wrote on the blackboard.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[William Ager]

I've used this method to take notes before, and it works extremely well; it can often even be much faster than taking notes by hand. Just \def or \newcommand anything complicated that shows up frequently as soon as it starts showing up, and keep several of them prewritten at the beginning of the file for anything that shows up commonly throughout classes (I usually have things like \def\f{\frac}, \def\lp{\left(}, \def\rp{\right)}, \def\beq{\begin{equation}, and so on).

For example, in a quantum mechanics course, you might have quite a bit of |\psi> terms. \def\pk{\left|\psi\right>} will give you the same term using only \pk, which will be faster than writing it. Define something similar for the dual, and you can do things like \pb H\pk, which will again be faster than writing. \def and \newcommand can also create commands with arguments, which can be used to great effect.

I would go mad trying to write anything in LaTeX without this method.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish I knew why this was funny.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

Emacs has AUCTeX (fantastic La/Con/doc/WhateverTeX mode), which has a math-shortcut minor mode. Set a prefix key and some math-specific keymaps and you can go whizz-bang-fast. My prefix key was ', I would type

    'A x 'i 's : x '< 5 '- x '[ Y

to get

    \forall x \in \sigma : x \leq 5 \rightarrow x \subseteq Y

(Example is nonsense but I hope you get the general drift.) Because it's emacs it's completely configurable, so you can even change the shortcuts as your course moves from calculus to set theory.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Nemyst]

Seriously, it's not just funny! I use LaTeX all the time in class to take notes and I did have to define some integrals, limits and sums that were getting repeated a bit too often.

Still missing a proper Windows and/or Linux editor, though...

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

That appears to be an integral from +infinity to +infinity. TeX is a wonderful thing, but it only takes a couple typos to make notes incomprehensible. Better to stick with something as easy as possible (handwriting), and devote as much of your attention as you can to actually learning during lecture, because notes written when you don't know what's going on are usually not worth a damn.

2c from someone who just completed their own PhD.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

The moderators probably don't understand that with a little practice the LaTeX markup is easy to write and that it turns into beautiful typeset output that's a pleasure to read.

The moderators' response also demonstrates why solutions with no learning curve nearly always trump more efficient solutions that require effort to get going.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[melikamp]

I personally use Emacs. (works in Windows too!). Its TeX mode is OK for readability, with syntax highlighting and all, and it's easy to create shortcuts for inserting blocks of text. xdvi is great for preview on GNU/Linux.

Re:TeX to the rescue

[fermion]

THis is what I was thinking and what I do. define any standard form, or any standard drawing, and then add to it. I have also kept a set of standard constructs that copy/paste/edit to get what I want.

There has also been some take of editors. I use texshop, which seems to work well, and better than anything I found on windows. Like in so many other things, emacs is overkill.

Digital Camera?

[n1ckml007]

I sometimes take a digital camera (phone) picture of notes or operating hours.

Re:Digital Camera?

[ShadowRangerRIT]

That approach can be costly. There is something to be said for the act of actually writing or transcribing the notes in some way that the information has to, at least briefly, pass through your brain. I took oodles of notes in college, and while I only studied from them once or twice in four years, the mere act of taking the notes in the first place help fix the information in my mind. If I didn't take the notes, my understanding would suffer.

I recognize that learning styles differ drastically, but for a lot of people the process of taking notes is at least as important as the end result. A camera just isn't the same.

Pen, paper, TeX.

[zunger]

I had this issue for years. Ultimately I never found anything within a factor of 5 for speed of simple pen and paper. The next best thing was LaTeX; with practice you can type that remarkably fast. (Especially if you pre-define macros relevant to whatever you're doing) The GUI-based solutions uniformly stank.

I've never found any system for digitizing handwritten equations; for a long time, my hope was that such software (preferably with LaTeX output) and a tablet would be a good solution. But the market for such things is small, and a few minutes of design work convinced me that implementing it was a lot more trouble than it would ever be worth.

Re:Pen, paper, TeX.

[maxwell demon]

Of course, you can only type LaTeX very fast if you have the right keyboard layout. On German keyboards, you get the backslash by pressing AltGr (i.e. right hand side Alt key) and the ß key (to the right of the digit 0) at the same time. That's not something you do very fast, and in LaTeX you have to use the backslash a lot.

Re:Pen, paper, TeX.

[platykurtic]

LaTeX and Vim. Get good at the combo and you can type as fast as you can write. That's what I did through college

Re:Pen, paper, TeX.

[wdsci]

Agreed, I was just about to post the same thing. In years of taking notes in math-intensive classes I've never found anything that can match handwriting for speed (including LaTeX... I'm a big fan of LaTeX but it doesn't cut it for real-time transcription).

One Option

[thePsychologist]

Pencil and paper.

Forget the computer for mathematics classes. You will never get as fast with any sort of computer technology as you will with paper. If you want to jot down a quick calculation, or more importantly, draw a diagram, paper and pencil are painless and easy, and as a result you'll spend more time focusing on what's really important: what the professor is saying and doing on the board.

I'm a math major just graduated and taking graduate courses in mathematics currently so I've had much experience here. I've tried to take notes with a computer. I am very quick with LaTeX. You can even define your own macros specific to what the professor is likely to write and even then I think a computer for taking notes in a math course is useless.

I remember using...

[CannedTurkey]

... a product called MathCad 15 years ago. I seem to recall they had a free student version. Looks like they have a 30 day trial, and a $60 student version if it suits your purposes.

Re:I remember using...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know about the cost.... But I used MathCAD somewhat recently (2001 ish) and it was pretty quick once you get the keyboard shortcuts worked out. It definitely satisfies the "real-looking" requirement - good for notes or presentations.

Re:I remember using...

[DiamondGeezer]

I'm amazed that someone hadn't mentioned MathCAD before because it's excellent at writing equations down at high speed. Instead we had the joys of 60 replies as to what "learning curve" actually means because it appears that 50% of Slashdotters are obsessive-compulsive pedants.

MathCAD would be the way I'd do it if I was in college again.

Kids...

[DJ Jones]

Use a freaking pencil and paper man. It might be nice to be able to "sort" and "categorize" them for shits and giggles on the weekends but when you're taking a test I doubt you're going to be able to use a "search" system on your computer. Most professors don't require you to memorize giant formulas but they expect you to be able to recall the general uses of certain formulas from memory and be able to apply them out of context to solve larger problems. If you ever work in a mathematical field you will all also need this ability later in life, you might as well start building a "mental" search system now.

AMaya

[demachina]

AMaya is the only one I've used. Doubt it would be fast enough for note taking though it outputs MathML so you can drop it straight in to HTML and a browser. It is open source so you can optimize it if you desire.

just need the software...

[frovingslosh]

You know, I already have a touch tablet on my notebook, as many others do too. The problem is that the software is programmed to make it act as a mouse (and I also always carry a small wireless mouse with my notebook). So the ideal solution would seem to be a piece of software that lets one use this touch sensitive surface for what it really is rather than forcing it to be a mouse. Has no one written and released such software?

Re:just need the software...

[DarkProphet]

Some touchpad manufacturers have software to allow this, track down who made your touchpad and see if they have any goodies on the website. I know on my old Presario there was some software that would allow you to do neat things like use it as a tablet... and it was even pressure sensitive. Of course, a touchpad is a pretty damn small writing surface, so I never really used it for anything.

What MACROS are for

[Anonymous Coward]

Create keyboard macros for all your math stuff.

CONTROL + SHIFT + F would be
  f() [LEFT ARROW to put your cursor between the parenthesis]

You're in college, so I'm sure you can figure it out...

Re:What MACROS are for

[Anonymous Coward]

The basic math input with LaTeX is not so slow really. The hard part comes when you want draw precise images. The submitters time would be better used trying to capture a high quality video recording of the lecture unless it would be already provided. The time spared could be used for thinking and making short notes on the side of the lecture notes, which hopefully can be bought from the hypothetical college printing service.

Re:What MACROS are for

[Lars512]

Mod parent up. I'd use an editor like TextMate which is highly customisable, and then create some snippets and shortcuts which allow you to type the primitives you need for LaTeX quickly. Another alternative is of course to just type in plain text, and worry about rendering it nicely later. You can then use any symbols you like, and if your prof uses some new notation you can just invent your equivalent quickly on the spot, instead of worrying about how you could type it in LaTeX. Make it pretty later, as a form of revision.

Re:What MACROS are for

[johny42]

Even better, define new LaTeX commands for the stuff you write repeatedly. This way, I was able to write my calculus notes in plain LaTeX quite effectively. For example, here are a few I had:

\newcommand{\fint}{\int_a^b f(x) \,\mathrm{d} x}

\newcommand{\ixi}{\langle x_{i-1}, x_i \rangle}

\newcommand{\non}{_{n=0}^\infty}

\newcommand{\mr}{\sum\non a_nx^n}

Re:What MACROS are for

[jlk521]

What do you think about this extension to Macros? Create a keyboard with 6 layers using Keyboard Layout Creator 1.4 from Microsoft. This would allow you to add four extra keyboards on top of the standard two of non-shifted and shifted. You could use ctrl+key for all Greek Letters & superscripts, Ctrl+Shift+key for extra symbols (inequalities, infinity, currency signs, plus-minus sign, etc.) & subscripts, Right Alt+Key for functions, & Right Alt+Shift+Key for anything else. To learn all the symbols available to you, simply open up Character Map using Arial Unicode MS font. Hope this helps.

openoffice math

[Anonymous Coward]

try openoffice math. I usually do not install this program since my users do not need it, but it seems to be what you want. If you are using windows I would try the version from go-oo.org.

I hope it helps

Have you tried MathType?

[shdragon]

I work in the education industry. For all of our test & test prep materials, we use a program called MathType. It's quick, easy and supports advanced mathematical formulas.

http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/
Cheers!

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[sl3xd]

I've always been unimpressed with MathType.

It's an upgrade vs. MS Equation Editor, but there's nothing it can do that you can't do more easily with LyX.

Harder to use + expensive doesn't do well compared to 'easier & free'

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[Anonymous Coward]

MathType is what I used when I was a physics major. Once you set up custom keyboard shortcuts for all the symbols and components you typically use it's about as fast as writing, so I was generally able to keep up with professors' scribbling on the chalkboard. I was on a Mac, so the commands primarily used the Command key (rather than ctrl), making it easier to enter them without moving my hands from the standard typing position. Likewise for select all - copy - appswitch - paste. Once you've gotten it so you aren't using the mouse it's quite fast.

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[DriveDog]

As someone who's fairly proficient with MathType (and MS's Equation Editor, which appears to be a wimpy subset of MathType), I would agree that it's far too slow for note-taking. It would help, however, if one is used to using reverse-polish notation (as on an HP12C calculator). I personally hate it, but using MathType effectively demands thinking from inside the parens outward. Ideally, I'd think you'd want a click-and-drag-the-symbol interface with enough smarts behind it to understand what you're assembling. As for me, after looking at the other entries I'm off to check out LyX.

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[Cedric Tsui]

I second mathtype. It is VERY similar to Microsoft equation editor, but the interface is much smoother. The menues are intuitive and expandable. Best of all, mousing over any symbol displays the shortcut keys in the status bar, so once you find the symbol you need, you can add it quickly. You only need the mouse if you don't already know the shortcut keys. My hands don't come off the keyboard when I use it. copy-paste works very well, and you can even save any size of hilighted section to their own menubar location and add shortcut keys to them.

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[maxume]

Except maybe inputting equations into MS Word.

Re:Have you tried MathType?

[afwings]

On the Teaching College Math blog, Maria Andersen has several links to some pretty good "how to" videos on MathType. One of the videos that particularly relates to this thread (and many of the 800 comments!) is the claim that LaTeX is faster than MathType, or the claim that MathType really isn't any better or faster than Equation Editor. In the post, Maria issues a challenge to anyone who wants to take her on, to type a sample document (which is linked from the post) faster with LaTeX than she can do it with MathType. She links to a video showing how fast she did it in MathType. (BTW, so far no one's accepted the challenge.) http://teachingcollegemath.com/?page_id=588

Windows 7 Tablet

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you probably don't want to hear it, but Windows 7 has some nice equation recognition features for a tablet pc.

Example:
http://blogs.msdn.com/blogfiles/e7/WindowsLiveWriter/InkInputandTablet_E2A5/clip_image014_2.jpg

raw LaTeX is fine

[Anonymous Coward]

I use LaTeX in vim, without any scripts. It takes a bit of practicing but I don't have to wonder where my cursor gets and why it jumps whereever it wants. That's quite annoying in Lyx sometimes. It's fast and predictive, I don't even have to check the result most times. I don't even look at the screen, I actually turn it off to save battery life sometimes.

And btw, drawing graphs while the teacher is drawing them on the board can be done with TikZ faster than drawing with a pencil once you learned all those coordinate systems that TikZ provides. I've done that for about a year now, the first months were hard, though.

Anyway, I'd suggest taking notes on paper and transcribing them later. That way you learn a more from your notes and you learn to take notes that are actually useful because you have to use them at least once.

Re:raw LaTeX is fine

[Jeremy Erwin]

Straight LaTeX is awful for typesetting matrices (with member expressions, naturally). Lyx is a little more usable.

Re:raw LaTeX is fine

[Cedric Tsui]

Really? Without a WYSIWYG system, I'm helpless. LaTeX is nice for typesetting. But when you're racing against the professor scrawling across the blackboard, you don't want to have to compile to double check if you wrote that last line correctly.

Livescribe Pulse pen

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a Livescribe Pulse pen from Amazon or Target. The new 4GB pens are out, they hold hundreds of hours of class.

You have to use their notebook, but it records your handwriting and the lecture, keying the writing to the audio so you can review what was said with a tap of the pen or click of the mouse.

Sync to your pc or mac and you can get rid of the notebooks.

I have to say the hardware is much further along than the software, it feels more like a beta than a product, but it is worth the money. I wouldn't go to school without it.

http://www.livescribe.com/

(no affiliation, just a happy customer, will be happier as the software impoves though)

LyX?

[steveha]

I don't know if it is up to the speed you need, but the equation editor in LyX is pretty darn cool.

http://www.lyx.org/

steveha

Two Possible Solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

I can think of two ways to do this.

1) In LaTeX, it's possible to make your own commands that are much shorter than the built in commands. For instance, I personally use "/RR" instead of "/mathbb{R}". This could make it a lot faster, if you repeat the same symbols often.

2) If that doesn't speed it up enough, you could use place holders that you fill in later. Type everything you can, and use say "(A)", then "(B)", and so on, in place of equations and such, which you write down on a peice of paper, properly labelled. Then go back later and enter them in. This is really just a variant of everyone who says that pen and paper is the way to go.

Mac has built-in symbol font

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, since you're on a Mac, I'd suggest using Option-5 for infinity and option-b for integral (they don't show up when I hit preview). You can use the Keyboard Viewer to find all sorts of nifty option-? / option-shift-? combos to get you quite a few symbols.

Or, you could use pencil and paper (pen! in a math class! seriously!!!!) and your computer for other classes.

Pencil and paper

[idiot900]

You have evaluate what this is really worth to you. You can learn just fine with notes you hand-wrote. Will all the effort you'd put into making this electronic really mean you'll learn the material in less time? And you're not seriously going to bring a Wacom tablet to class, are you? You'll look ridiculous.

If you really must, scan and OCR your (neatly) hand-written notes. You'll get enough of the words to be able to search for the concept you need later.

Or, if you don't believe me, just learn TeX markup for equations, and don't worry about getting the syntax 100% right during class. Fix syntax errors and render your notes after class.

Take a picture, it'll last longer.

[mcmonkey]

Seriously, take a picture of the board/screen/whatever, and import the image in to your notes.

More seriously, right tool for the right job. Leave the expensive hardware at home and invest in a pad of paper and a pen.

Re:Take a picture, it'll last longer.

[Anonymous Coward]

more appropriately, I've found that shooting the professor in the leg with a red paintball can get him to write more slowly on the blackboard. This has the benefit of helping out your fellow classmates as well.

because you should never have to leave linux at home.

Re:Take a picture, it'll last longer.

[callinyouin]

Seriously, take a picture of the board/screen/whatever, and import the image in to your notes.

I could easily see this irritating most professors to no end.

Scientific Notebook

[DomNF15]

I used this in college, albeit not while I was attending a lecture. Still, you should be able to click the various special formula buttons at least as fast as some prof is either talking through slides or writing them on a board. By the way, it is also a good tool for checking whether or not you solved an equation correctly. I've used it up to and including multivariate calculus, so it should take you quite a ways. My memory of matrix algebra is kind of fuzzy so don't remember how good it was there, but overall it should work for you.

Options

[Anonymous Coward]

Just wanted to add my two cents. (For what its worth, I'm a math professor.)

1. Pencil and paper + digitization

This is probably the fastest, but it does take paper and even after you digitize you may not be able to search your notes unless your handwriting is ocr compatible.

2. Tablet

I've seen a number of students take this approach. Its almost as fast as pen an paper (if not equally fast) and you dont have to scan. The nice tablets have built in character recognition so you can search your notes. On the other hand, you have to worry about battery life and whatnot.

3. Text editor

IMHO this just doesn't work. I type latex about as fast as anyone I know and I couldn't keep up with even a moderately paced lecture. I don't think picking a particular editor is going to help. It can't be that selecting \alpha from a toolbar is faster than typing it.

4. Magic

It would be really neat if there was some program out there that could scan equations (either taken from a digitized pen/paper job or a tablet) and turn them into latex. Its even possible that there is, although I've never heard of it. If so, and if it works, then this is clearly the best option, but it sounds like magic to me.

Where "digitising" is taking a photo on your phone

[Colin Smith]

Or webcam.

 

Don't use a computer in class

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want really good notes, the only practical way to do it is take fast sketchy notes with pen and paper in class, then type them up the same evening while you still remember the lecture, expanding the sketchy stuff into complete sentences and explanations, equations, and so forth.

PDA or you can have my Acer Travelmate C112

[lkcl]

Installed linux on it: i got an Acer C112 i'm not using, battery's stuffed but the keyboard is almost brand-new, replaced it only a couple of months before getting a new one :) ... but seriously, i'm not here to sell you my old laptop, but to recommend that you look up any 2nd hand smartphone or touchscreen PDA, and use the "drawing" program, simple as that.

you can then insert the images into your notes, afterwards. pay attention _do_ try to get a linux-based one: not only do my natural instincts abhor proprietary software but you may find it inconvenient to convert from proprietary PDA / Wince image formats into something you can actually use.

of course, when you've got a "real" job you can afford $1000+ on a decent tablet PC, but then you'll not be needing to take maths notes from lecturers :)

Feynman says

[Anonymous Coward]

how about using a better mathematical notation system...like Iverson's apl or j
you must admit math notation isn't the most succinct syntax out there.

when you memorize latter - put into a file/database etc....

Livescribe Pulse

[mtrachtenberg]

Livescribe Pulse. I've never used it but the advertising makes it look like just what you want.

That's why I didn't do math

[Dunbal]

Trouble is, I'm going into higher and higher math classes, and typing "f_X(x) = integral(-infinity, infinity, f(x,y) dy)" just isn't cutting it anymore: I need a way to get real-looking equations into my notes.

Teehee - math nerds.

That's why I liked biology:

      "I'm getting higher and higher in my biology classes. Writing notes to my good looking classmates just isn't cutting it anymore: I need a way to get into the pants of delicious looking women"...

Just do like me

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't take notes and save it all inside your brain.

Bamboo?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I did see some lower-end tablets out there, called Bamboo or some such. I want to say I saw them for $50 - $100 US, but don't quote me on that.

Pulse Smart Pen

[frankmu]

livescribe.com sells the Pulse Smart Pen. It can also record the lecture while transcribing your handwriting. the best thing however, is to get last years notes, and bring it with you. then you can read along. professors usually have the same script year after year.

Re:Pulse Smart Pen

[dunsurfin]

I agree with the Pulse Pen. What is more, you have an instant archive (paper) along with the digital audio recording and digitization of what you write. Works very well for my purposes.

Re:Pulse Smart Pen

[vikstar]

Pulse Smartpen

LOL at their site's "customer feedback". One of the customers said "I couldn’t have asked for a better shopping experience.", yeah right, that was a customer.

Re:Pulse Smart Pen

[Roger W Moore]

You can definitely see what you write -- onscreen

Exactly so you have to have your laptop open and running and look at it while writing on the tablet. This is completely different to looking at what you are writing and requires considerably more desk space that is sometimes available in lecture theatres - especially the ones with the flip up rests as well as being limited to your laptops battery life. I agree the the Wacom tablet's precision is very good but the learning curve is extremely steep. It is far harder than learning to use a mouse since you have to relearn something that you already know i.e. how to write and when you take your pen away from the surface it takes a while to figure out where you need to put it back to continue writing. Finally you do not need to buy refill paper because you can print it - if it were not for that then I would agree that it would be a major point against it.

One Note, if its like the note book apps for the Mac, is only useful for typing and dragging information in from web pages. If you need to draw diagrams, write equations etc. it is useless and I have found that I ended up stopping using them for this very reason. I suppose in the arts they might be ideal but for most science they are extremely limited.

Re:Pulse Smart Pen

[7 digits]

There is another issue with the Pulse Smartpen: the software is a steaming piece of shit. For instance, if anybody draws a huge penis on the first page of your notebook, you'll stare at it until the end of the year, because you can't delete pages.

And that is just one among many many many issues.

Great hardware. Failed software execution.

Alternate keymap/charset

[Zerth]

If the set of symbols you need is less than the number of keys on your keyboard, set up an alternate keymap/charset, or a bunch of macros in the editer of your choice.

Tried Rapid Pi?

[uberjeep]

It's a plugin for Word. All of these things need practice, but you do get faster and you can use cut and paste if you're doing ODEs or whatever.

Sandbox

[similar_name]

I know some people think pencil and paper but that is just too high tech for my blood. I'd go with a good ol' sandbox.

Or you could go for an etch a sketch if you still want the cool high tech look.

I use Mathematica in class.

[VGVL]

I've been using Wolfram Mathematica to take class notes and exams for years. By using the keyboard shortcuts you can easily keep up with the class. You can also have instant interactive graphs which will be much easier to understand than anything a professor could draw on a board, although it's not like my professors write on the board as they use Mathematica or Matlab to teach the class as well. This is at a private university in Mexico.

Re:I use Mathematica in class.

[scheme]

I've been using Wolfram Mathematica to take class notes and exams for years. By using the keyboard shortcuts you can easily keep up with the class. You can also have instant interactive graphs which will be much easier to understand than anything a professor could draw on a board, although it's not like my professors write on the board as they use Mathematica or Matlab to teach the class as well. This is at a private university in Mexico.

That's not going to work for higher math classes, Mathematica isn't going to be all that fast if you're trying to enter stuff from topology or cohomology algebra or similar things. It definitely won't give you graphics for those.

KISS, just pen and paper

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with pen and paper? Why make your life so hard. You still have to write your examination answers using pen and paper right? [ unless you have an online examination ]

Mac's Typography; in short: transcribe your notes

[zentechno]

Firstly, the Mac has an incredibly rich simple character set. This is NOT coincidental, as Apple copied their editing capabilities from the publishing industry decades ago. E.g. in TextEdit type alt-b and you'll see a '' integral symbol (looks correct as I type it, hopefully the post wont change it). If you can learn these keyboard shortcuts (learning-curve arguments aside), you *may* be able to type these directly into your mac in class, BUT... If you take notes by hand, then transcribe them into your mac using these short cuts, or simply via the Mac's Font (e.g. TextEdit --> commant-T) and characters (e.g. via the gear drop-down in the Font) pane, you're doing yourself a much bigger favor.

Perhaps

[Laser Lou]

.. you should stick with typing text, as you have been. By translating those equations to text form, you may be helping yourself understand them better.

LaTeX

[patrickthbold]

Obviously pencil and paper is what everyone does, and for good reason. But if you really need your notes typeset and you don't have any time to do it after class, you should just use LaTeX. You can set up some macros for some commonly used things. You just need to be able to type fast an acurately. You said that LaTeX is too slow, but really you are just slow at typing in LaTeX. Practice and you should be able to get your speed up.

Flip your axis

[TheNinjaroach]

I think you've got your X and Y axis flipped. To me (and many others) a steep learning curve implies that the more you want to accomplish (x), the more time (y) you have to put into learning.

Re:Flip your axis

[Hognoxious]

a steep learning curve implies that the more you want to accomplish (x), the more time (y) you have to put into learning.

That would apply to any curve with a positive slope, steep or shallow.

texing is the only way

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a math grad student. I, and several of my fellow students do live texing. Anything else is just plain clunky, and is designed for idiots who can't handle a moderate learning curve. LaTeX is the only way any serious mathematician types up mathematics in any context.

Here is some advice on live texing from a fellow grad student:
http://math.berkeley.edu/~anton/index.php?m1=me&m2=TeXadvice

Re:texing is the only way

[Zordak]

On first glance, I thought you and your math grad buddies were sending each other notes 120 characters at a time via SMS. And I knew we were all doomed.

d00d, eulerz 1337!1! i haz ur c0mplx nmbrz1!! lol tr1pl ntgr8 fail !

Why I did do math

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello Mr. Biology Dropout, I'd like the double whopper with fries and dont fucking forget the packets of ketchup this time, you idiot.

Re:Why I did do math

[Dunbal]

Hello Mr. Biology Dropout, I'd like the double whopper with fries and dont fucking forget the packets of ketchup this time, you idiot.

      Dropout? LOL I have a doctorate. But that's ok, keep those shelves stacked nice and tidy, boy.

Re:Why I did do math

[Anonymous Coward]

On the internet, everyone has a "doctorate" in biology. Fuck, I have 7 of them.

Pencil and paper.

[zippthorne]

Use a .7 mm or bigger pencil (forces you to write a little bigger which for me is also slightly faster and easier to read) on engineering paper. (one of those green ruled pads with the lines on the *back* of the page). When class is done, take your notes to the auto-feeding scanner/copier and scan them into a pdf.

That handles equations, diagrams, and regular notes. Bonus: OCR on those things is usually good enough that you might be able to search for notes if there is enough actual text. You can probably tag pages by inserting hidden text directly into the pdf somewhere, too. PDF is a programming language, so I'm sure there are comment delimiters.

At the end you'll have a complete digital record with time-stamped files organized by class (I'm assuming you drop the files into a directory for each class).

You can always typeset the important stuff for pretty-printing later, and as a bonus you won't piss off your instructor with the steady clacking of laptop keys.

Flamewar HO! (emacs + tex)

[Anonymous Coward]

emacs has an amazing TeX input system. You can type everynthing in normally, but most LaTeX magic is bound to a 2-3 key combination starting with `
I don't actually remember what everything is any more, but i did find it incredibly useful. You may also want to cook up your own bindings for things that you like. One of my favorites that everyone else seemed to hate was Cx ( would insert \left( \right) and leave the cursor before the \right).

Learn to use some macros

[Fitzghon]

I regularly take notes in my advanced undergraduate math classes using LaTeX. The key is to (a) use macros --- make them up on the fly and just start using them. e.g. \pd{f}{g} for \frac{\partial f}{\partial g}, for instance, or \cF for \mathcal{F}, or \sHom for \operatorname{sHom}... (b) don't compile --- compiling during class will just confuse you. Make sure you've got enough info in the .tex file for you to understand what the notes are, and then fix typos and errors afterward. To tie back to (a), actually write the definitions for your new set of macros after class. (c) use Emacs --- if you're doing a lot of TeX you'll be happier with emacs and auctex. (d) type faster. If you can't go fast enough (or the lecturer is whipping through the blackboard faster than you can type), go back to paper & pencil. It's not that bad.

Openoffice Writer

[Anonymous Coward]

OOWriter has an equation editor that works by typing in command sequences like the example.

f(x) = int from -infinity to infinity {f(x) dy}

http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOoAuthors_User_Manual/Writer_Guide/Math_commands_-_Reference

Seriously?

[njfuzzy]

Paper notepad. Give each equation a reference number. Put the reference number in your typed notes. Save yourself a lot of hassle.

Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

Mathematica can be pretty quick for formatting if you use the escape sequences ((escape)int(escape) gives an integral sign, for instance), and you can evaluate the things too if you're so inclined.

Of course, you'll have to pay an arm and two legs for it, but you didn't need them anyway...

No luck

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect you're screwed—get a pad of paper or a tablet. Any gui option is hopeless. I'm very proficient and took LaTeX notes with running equations in one course, but when I was in college, but only because it was a breeze for me; if I had to pay attention and do it I think I'd have been toast. Figures are even worse.

Sorry, but I don't think anyone's going to have a good solution here.

Jot it on paper and take a shot with the webcam

[aaandre]

That's what I'd do:

During the class, insert an identifier in the document, like [a], and write the equation on 3x5 (or smaller) blank index card, using corresponding identifier. At the end of the class, take a snapshot of each of the cards and insert them into the document. If you write with a sharpie, it will be crystal clear.

Tass

[Anonymous Coward]

vim + latex-suite
I'm as fast as the prof if he's not drawing some diagrams.

Wireless pen device to write on paper AND mac

[lieutenant]

I use an IntelliPen (a better product than it's name suggests), ~$70 at Amazon.Technology is from a company called Epos, http://www.epos-ps.com
  Can be used as a regular pen without a computer and STILL save the notes for use on a computer later. Useful for notes and drawings also...

Try Mac OS X Grapher...

[ttimes]

LaTeX is worth learning, because the other options involve a lot of clicking as well. Mac OS X has Grapher - open the equation pallet, click what you need, then drag the resulting equation to your note document - and it's free!. MathLab is similar in this regard, but you must pay for it. Either way, it may be more work than you would like. Good Luck!

Re:Try Mac OS X Grapher...

[mrxak]

It's free, and you probably have it installed already. Give it a whirl and see if it works for you. If not, pencil and paper works great for math notes....

Another pencil/paper advocate

[Anonymous Coward]

I managed through 3rd year maths with pen/paper. If you just can't handle using a pen for everything, what about just doing the slow-to-type equations on paper, giving them a number, then referencing that number in your notes. You then only need to type up the equations afterwards.

Re:Another pencil/paper advocate

[Anonymous Coward]

Or even scan or photograph them later and insert the bitmaps rather than typing them.

Re:Another pencil/paper advocate

[arminw]

Why not sit in front of the class and take a video or a series of still pictures of everything worth keeping.

OO.o MATH?

[pcarter7]

I agree MS Equation Editor is not worth mentioning, and I've never had the patience to sit down and teach myself LaTeX. I'm genuinely suprised that no one has mentioned OO.o's MATH though. Through four years of college OO.o MATH has been the best method I've found to take math notes digitally. The symbol support is reasonable (although certain weirder algebras may necessitate changing character maps), and the markup keywords are simple and intuitive enough, and configurable to boot. While it's not perfect I've definitely found that its very fast (in my case faster than writing it out by hand). I also like the fact that it integrates cleanly in OO.o Writer, which means I can inline any equations with my textual notes as well. Specifically I found it exceptionally useful in calculus, statistics, cryptography and relational algebra. Hope that helps.

OpenOffice.org

[carluva]

I took all of my notes throughout university (including engineering courses) using OpenOffice.org. The equation editor in OpenOffice is easy-to-learn, fast (as in, no mouse use required and the keystrokes are all sane), and the completed equations look great. (By default, there isn't a keyboard shortcut for inserting a new equation, so you'll need to manually assign one—I used Ctrl-Shift-F, if I remember correctly.

Your example would almost work as is; it would be entered as:

f_x (x) = int from -infinity to infinity f (x, y) dy

Or, if you prefer your parentheses to stretch (in case you have fractions inside, or what have you):

f_x left ( x right ) = int from -infinity to infinity f left ( x, y right ) dy

Either way, it comes out looking very nice. The one thing that takes some getting used to is that you need to make liberal use of whitespace (e.g. between f and the opening parenthesis of the function), otherwise things will occasionally come out looking a little strange. The best part is, when you don't know what you need to type for a particular symbol, you can select it from the menu and OO will insert the plaintext code, which makes it very easy to learn the code for new items.

Re:OpenOffice.org

[niiler]

My physics class turns in their labs digitally. Some of them have really struggled trying to insert equations. Some of them had scanned their notes and then cropped various equations out. Some had tried building equations via manual formatting supplemented via underlining and super/subscripting. To a person, they seem to hate MS Office's equation editor as it takes too long to point and click your way through (and if there's another way with their editor, enlighten me).

Yesterday, I popped up OpenOffice's equation editor (ALT-I-O-F -> for ALT-Insert-Object-Formula) and started typing. As we were doing parallel and series circuits, I took an equation from the recent lab: R_net = 1 over { 1 over R_1 + 1 over R_2} + R_3. Almost to a person, they were agog that I could type it as fast as I could write it on the board. I did suggest alternates such as MathType, MathML, and LaTeX, but I don't think they heard me after that.

While I am able to quickly produce copious amounts of equations using OO.org's editor, the usual disclaimer applies: use what works for you.

Re:OpenOffice.org

[level_headed_midwest]

I second using OpenOffice.org to enter equations. I liked to take notes on the computer in classes that had much of any written text in the notes (I took notes in a notebook for calculus, statics/strengths, physics and such that had almost all equations as notes). Since I was an engineering major, just about every class had at least some equations as part of the notes and I could bang out equations pretty easy with the text math symbol input in OpenOffice.org Writer. One other neat trick is to do the Ctrl-Shift-U + Unicode key code or key code + Alt-X shortcut to quickly put Greek symbols in notes.

Re:OpenOffice.org

[giuseppemag]

Does nobody know/use Word 2007 or Word 2010 math mode? You type ALT+= and math mode starts: there you can either explore your way with the GUI (highlighting an option also shows the corresponding keyword or start typing right away in a very Latex-y format. Of course you can add your own keywords; in a functional programming course I redefined \lambda to \l and \Gamma to \g since the symbol appeared almost everywhere. It's like immediate Latex+explorable GUI...

Re:OpenOffice.org

[Anonymous Coward]

It's what I do in Probability & Statistics. The worst part is doing combinations. I can't just do "( X over Y )" because A, the parens don't stretch and B, there's a divisor in there where there shouldn't be. So, I have to do "left ( binom{X}{Y} right )" or "left ( stack {X#Y} right )". It's ugly, but it gets the job done.

Another problem I've just run into today is where you want to indicate that the expression is to be evaluated from A to B. You want a stretching vertical bar on the right with A to the right of the top and B to the right of the bottom. I haven't found a way to do that in a visually pleasing manner. Likewise, a piecewise function where you want a verticly stretching { on the left but no matching } on the right is not possible.

Aside from those, I find entering OOo Math Formulas pretty intuitive and quick. I'm able to keep up with MY professor anyway. I remapped the F2 key to be the Insert Formula function under Tools Customize Keyboard. You have to choose the second Formula to get the Math Formula. This way, I can either drop straight into Math editting and see the syntax get WYSIWYGed in near real time, or just enter the syntax and then CTRL+SHIFT+RTARROW to high light everything just typed and then F2 it into rendered Math.

Nokia handwriting calculator

[Longstaff]

Nokia's handwriting calculator running on an N810 or the upcoming N900. Add in a bluetooth keyboard if you want something full size to type on...

Remap the keystrokes

[wfstanle]

I was disabled and taking notes was VERY slow for me if I tried writing. I used a word processor WP or MS Word (I don't remember which one) to take notes. I had a similar problem until I discovered that I could map an entire phrase into a single keystroke. For example: "ALT + CTRL + F " could be "f(X) = " You could even be more elaborate because certain phrases are used time and time again in lectures. My longest remapping was 20 characters. For different classes, I had completely different keystroke mappings. Just be careful not to remap the standard keystrokes.

This technique worked for me all though grad school. I also used a tape recorder (get the professors permission first) and reviewed my notes after class to make sure I got it all.

Re:Remap the keystrokes

[Anonymous Coward]

This is something I have not tried, but TextExpander on Mac supposedly can produce formatted text and create snippets (abbreviations) from selections. A quick Google search turns up the information that one can put commonly used symbols in as abbreviations, and this user sets up the equations with MathMagic, and then puts them into TextExpander http://www.engineeringfortherealworld.com/files/MyTricksWithTextExpander.html.

I'm in epidemiology, so use mainly plain text, but it speeds note-taking up considerably to be typing clogr, phzm, cfbi, cnccccd rather than conditional logistic regression, proportional hazard model, confounding by indication, case-non case case control design. David Pogue got me started (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/typing-expansion-software/?apage=3). Until then I'd dismissed built-in word completion as not particularly useful since so much of specialist vocabulary has common stems (eg, confounded, confounding, confounder) and I was having to either type most of the word or tab through options. Now I type cfd, cfg, or cfr, and carry on.

However, I'm now off to set up abbreviations for sigma, sigma squared, mu, and all the symbols that come up over and over again in frequentist statistics.

take a picture

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. Whip out the digicam and take a picture of the blackboard/whiteboard/projector screen. I was in a class once where a student did that and mailed the pictures out to the entire class every night. The professor loved it.

TeXmacs

[Anonymous Coward]

I used TeXmacs (on Linux) to take notes in all of my classes, and it was great for all of my subjects. My math notes were perfect, and I could convert them to PDF for emailing to classmates, but the only downside was that I never worked out how to input graphs (I could never sketch them in handwritten notes, anyway).

Re:TeXmacs

[Warped-Reality]

I second this. I used Texmacs in undergrad and grad school - it's pretty good for taking notes, although if I'm going to sit down and type something up, i'll go with plain old LaTeX

Re:TeXmacs

[Anonymous Coward]

I second this recommendation. TeXmacs makes it easy to learn its key shortcuts by listing them next to every menu option. After using it for one homework assignment you will be pretty much up to speed and will be able to type math almost as fast as you can write it by hand. It was a godsend when I was a math grad student. Of course if you are writing a paper to be published I would use LyX as it seems to have more formatting options; but for homework assignments and notes, use TeXmacs.

Re:TeXmacs

[MrCrassic]

TeXmacs was excellent for making pretty LaTeX-like notes really, really quickly. A few math teachers were surprised that I knew "LaTeX" (though I eventually did learn straight LaTeX, but never used it because it was much slower.

Vim-LaTeX

[momerath2003]

With Vim's editing capability, the shortcuts defined in VIM-LaTeX let me take notes as fast as my professor types them.

Try to spread the problem on multiple people

[Anonymous Coward]

In one of my University lectures the problem was solved by some guy by setting up a Wiki that could handle latex. This was used by multiple people to create a quite useful script from hand written notes. So while this doesnt answer your question, its a solution to your basic problem: putting less work into creating a bunch of pdf containing the lecturs content. The Wiki expanded quite a bit btw, now covering multiple lectures. If you care to have a look: http://mitschriebwiki.nomeata.de/ but be warned its in german.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what I was going to recommend! I picked up a cheap and outdated Wacom tablet from E-bay, and use OneNote to store all my notes in. It's a thing of illegible beauty!

OneNote 2010 Beta

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't go wrong with the new equation editor in OneNote 2010. Beta will be out in two weeks. It will work for a year. The new version of OneNote is great, I've been using it since May.

Learn Shorthand

[bkr1_2k]

"f_X(x) = integral(-infinity, infinity, f(x,y) dy)"

Why not type it fXy=intgrl -inf,inf,fx,ydy... omit a lot of your structure and unnecessary letters and typing equations becomes much quicker. If you're actually going back and looking at them later you can fill it out a bit with parentheses where appropriate, etc.

My favorite... but good luck

[jhfry]

I had a couple of favorite math professors. Here's what they did that made them so much better than the rest.

They used transparent overheads and scanned them for us at the end of class. The greatest thing about them was that there was no erasing in the middle of the lecture... they wrote in dry erase but rarely erased anything of value... instead they would just swap them.

If you can convince your prof's to give it a try... even if you must offer to digitize them and post them for the teacher... its by far the best system I know. This process kept everyones eyes on the lecture instead of down in their notes. I would take notes occasionally, but only procedural things that weren't written on the overhead.

Key mapping

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi there, I faced the same problem back in 2004 when I was taking a preparatory Maths class for the the EPFL in switzerland. The way I managed to solve the problem was by using two amazing features of the Mac OS operating system, the character palette and key binding. I set up my system so that when I was typing in word or pages or whatever else, I could use letter keys with symbols to give me access to the most common symbols. Once I had the 24 most current ones mapped to the letters with modifier keys I could then also use the autoreplace system to use short key codes and replace them with the desired symbols. The only difficulty is that I ended up writing a lot of brackets to deal with fractions. I hope that this helps.

dead-tree substrate and burned-plant stylus

[swschrad]

NASA spent $10 million developing a pen that would write in space without gravity.

Russia sent pencils up. cost, zip.

fancy new technology is not always the answer.

Re:dead-tree substrate and burned-plant stylus

[u38cg]

Well, shit.

Re:dead-tree substrate and burned-plant stylus

[scheme]

NASA spent $10 million developing a pen that would write in space without gravity.

Russia sent pencils up. cost, zip.

fancy new technology is not always the answer.

A - NASA didn't actually spend the money for it, a company did it privately
B - Russia switched to pens as soon as NASA had them ready, turns out the pencils would shed graphite flakes that could get into the electronics and shortcircuit them -- not so good.

Like H.L. Menkin said, “For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.”

MathCAD from PTC

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not only great for doing engineering/physics homework, you can type a pretty equation really quick if you learn the keyboard syntax. It's actually pretty awesome, although i'm rather upset that a) it seems that it has disappeared from most engineering curricula, and b) PTC hasn't released a new version in at least two years. The ASME chapter at the university I work for sells student licenses for $30 instead of the regular $119 from the bookstore.

Scientific Notebook

[Anonymous Coward]

Scientific notebook is great, not only is it easy to input the equations but you can solve and graph them in there as well. And you have your familiar LaTeX based format too.

straight LaTeX is JUST FINE!

[Anonymous Coward]

I took notes for a 2-term course in differential geometry using LaTeX, it worked fine. I drew pictures in XFig. I actually paid for my laptop by selling the notes back to the instructor after the class was done!

Basically I used ZERO technology; every time I tried to use something clever it just slowed me down. My main tricks were

1) use a syntax-highlighting editor
2) make sure the document always compiles
3) write a couple perl or python scripts to do slow things (like entering matrices or commutative diagrams)
4) try not to use too many macros. Just learn the names of all the symbols.

Your example,

f_X(x) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(x,y) \;dy

really only takes a couple seconds to type if you don't hesitate. You can catch up on any lost time when the instructor is writing sentences.

OpenOffice.org Writer or Wiki Markup + Latex

[otakuj462]

I took notes on my laptop extensively all through my undergraduate degree in Computer Science, and I always used OpenOffice.org Writer's equation editor. It has a nice, concise syntax, and it was, in fact, possible to enter even very complex mathematical expressions in real time, faster than my prof was able to write them on the board. This was true even for matrixes.

Here's an example of some of my notes made with OO.o: http://csus.cs.mcgill.ca/wiki/COMP-330_(Panangaden%2C_Fall_06)_Lectures

My linear algebra notes would be more impressive, because they often involved fairly large and complex matrix equations, but I never made those notes available online.

I had a colleague who also took notes in class who had quite a nice method - he wrote all of his notes in wiki markup, with latex for the mathematical expressions. He didn't have a laptop, but instead used a PDA and small, foldable keyboard.

An example of his notes are here: http://csus.cs.mcgill.ca/wiki/COMP-302_(Panangaden%2C_Pientka%2C_Winter_06)_Lectures

I think it's quite a nice result.

MacBook, VirtualBox and Battery life

[BitZtream]

Off topic to this discussion in general, but maybe useful. Heres my solution, constantly using VirtualBox took me from 7 hours to 2 hours battery life, these get my back to about 6, give or take screen brightness.

First, buy CoolBook

Buy CoolBook from coolbook.se. The trial doesn't do anything actually useful, its more of a 'will the app run' trial than anything else so don't try it and throw it out cause it doesn't work. Its only $10, and after you register it will takes some time (few hours) for them to email you the 'key'. The 'key' is generally your First and Last names and the email address tied to your paypal or google checkout account. Once you've paid, you can use it very shortly after, well before the email arrives in my experience.

Set it to limit your CPU temp as much possible, unless you're playing WoW you probably won't notice the difference, this will keep your mhz and cpu speed down. I used it to lower my voltages slightly as well cause the thing gets way too damn hot sitting on my lap, you probably really don't need that though. I only use lower voltages for the bottom end of the CPU speeds, I leave the higher speeds as default for stability. I haven't tweaked this much as the temp limiter does most everything I need.

Second, disable 3d accel in virtual box if its enabled, this will help a lot if you use Vista or Win7, at the cost of 'ooooh shiny'. If you have multiple cores, only use one. That'll help keep things snappy on your mac without pushing up the speed of your CPU since it leaves a core for the host OS untouched. Not as big of an improvement as disabling 3d accel though.

Third, in the Energy Saver preference pane, set your graphics to 'Better Battery Life' if you have the option for your card. This gave me a good bit of battery life and drastically lowered the heat level. To be honest I have no clue what it did as far as performance, I haven't noticed, I switch it back if I'm going to play a game that needs it.

Forth, lower your keyboard backlighting (if you have it) and display backlighting. Depending on your system this may not be as useful, I have one of the LED backlighting machines so its not as big of a difference as FL, but its still 30 minutes to an hour of extra time on a full charge. If you have the preference option to have it track external light sources, you'll automatically save power when the lights are lowered and eyes too, but it seems to vary too much like when I move around in front of it and block a light source behind me. Makes you think you're going nuts when the screen dims and brightens seemingly randomly so you may not like the feature. It can certainly be annoying in the wrong environment, a typical lecture hall should be fine.

At the end of this, I'm almost back to full life on the battery, I just fire up my virtual machine now and forget them, but you HAVE to make sure you don't have any background processes running on them that eat CPU. Things like Google Desktop Search or the Windows Search 4.0 will bite you when you least expect it, they always seem to start indexing when I'm the furthest away from a power source, and I don't notice them until I wonder why my battery meter is dropping from several hours to a few or even minutes, which means its already consumed a fair amount of your reserves. This is one place things like Parallels have an advantage. Spotlight can index my VM drives and is far more aware that I'm active than the VM is.

Your milage may very, I've done no real testing to prove out these differences, its purely anecdotal, but, its something and may help you use your Linux or Windows VM through a days worth of classes.

Pulse Smart Pen

[Roger W Moore]

The pulse smart pen is far better. I tried the Wacom bluetooth tablet but the problem is that you cannot see what you write. If you use the Pulse Smartpen then it acts like a real pen - so you can see exactly what you have written - and as well as recording exactly what you wrote it records audio as well so you end up with a document that you can click on to hear what was being said at the time that you wrote that bit of text.

The only downside is that it needs special paper which you can buy in notebook form or which you can print yourself using a laser printer. The windows version has some extra software you can buy to perform OCR on your handwriting but since I have a Mac I have no idea how good it is. There is even an open SDK for you to develop your own applications for it but it unfortunately only supports Java.

what about OO.o

[Anonymous Coward]

Open Office ships with a pretty nice little eqn editor, mostly based of TeX, but the updates are real-time.

Pencil and paper for technical subjects

[danhs7]

For liberal arts (or anything strongly language based, like law) typing your notes in class is fine.

But law is the exception for technical subjects. For most others, you need a pen and paper. There are simply too many symbols which take too long to type into a qwerty keyboard, or there are too many diagrams.

I have terrible handwriting and used a pen and paper throughout engineering school, and my girlfriend is doing the exact same thing in medical school now.

Use the right tool for the job.

I agree with most on paper

[tengeta]

Seriously if taking notes worked that good on a computer classrooms would be full of them all the time. Computers are for after class when you need to get work done faster, thats what it was designed for. I thought I'd take notes on my netbook too a while back when I got it, but it just didn't work... now its retired to a bedtime email checker lol.

It's MAGIC!

[dskoll]

There's this magical invention called a "pencil" that goes well with another magical invention called a "notebook". Combined, the two will let you keep up with the lecturer. If, later on, you have the overpowering need to be 1337, you can transcribe the notes at your own pace into your computer.

Auto-correct/replace

[Pincus]

Your word processor should be able to auto-replace specified strings. Not sure if/how you could enter the symbol for infinity, but I'm pretty sure greek is available. And "inf" isn't a killer to input anyway.

use ASCIIMath

[purefrosting]

http://www.wjagray.co.uk/maths/ASCIIMathTutorial.html

Use the paper tape on the calculator?

[microcars]

Many people never bother to check out the built-in "Calculator" app in OSX
click the VIEW menu for options like "paper tape" and you can use the scientific calculator part and record everything and then print it out or save it as a text file.

but I really like the previous suggestions for handwriting it out for now on paper...

MacBook

[pete-classic]

I've never used it, but Pogo Sketch seems to be what you're looking for. (For those who don't want to click the link, it's a stylus that works with trackpads. You can use it with any app that lets you draw with a mouse.)

If you could make it work with Evernote that would be about ideal.

I don't understand the purpose of the thousand posts saying, "Just use pencil and paper!". That's my preferred approach, but why reply if you aren't going to answer the question? You don't really think that an advanced Math student never thought of using a notebook, do you?!

-Peter

MS Equation editor

[jzhos]

Microsoft's Equation Editor isn't even worth mentioning

Why the equation editor is not even worth mentioning? The one comes with Office 2007 is pretty good. Some of my friends are more likely to use Word instead of exclusively Latex because of it.

Evernote and a camera?

[aitikin]

Seriously, a decent phone camera even. Just get Evernote (differences between premium and free are listed on that page) and take notes by hand then upload them that way. It's even (rather) searchable if your pendmenship is somewhat legible. Just a thought.

Use Word 2007's Equation support

[KK]

This is not the old Equation Editor 3.0 from Word 2003, which is a crippled version of MathType, but rather a brand new equation facility in Word 2007, which is also the basis for the new equation support in the OneNote 2010 beta another poster has referred to.

The Word 2007 equation editor supports a "linear format" for completely keyboard-based input, which is based on TeX-like commands like "\sum" and "\int" and is documented in this Unicode technical note: Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics

I've been using this for my math classes since last semester, with great success. Once you master the linear format, it's not difficult to keep up if you have a reasonable typing rate to begin with.

OpenOffice.org Math

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenOffice.org Writer + Math. When you insert a formula into a normal document (Insert->Object->Formula), it brings up the OOo version of an equation editor, which seems easier to use than some others. You can type "f_X(x) = int from -infinity to infinity f(x, y) dy" and it is displayed as a math equation. So you end up typing out the equation partially in words, like you have been doing, but you get normal looking equations in your notes. And since you are just typing (no mouse, tablet, etc.), it should be fairly fast.

The old fashioned way ...

[Anonymous Coward]

You already have a textbook for most of your classes. Either take paper-written notes and turn it into LaTeX at home, or find a way to record the lecture (ideal) and just pay attention. I would just pay attention mostly, and then perhaps browse the MIT Open Courseware for recordings of similar classes. What you do not want to do is try to type your eqns very fast - you will screw up. Speed is not to your advantage here. Also, there is this supposedly amazing pen / recording device on the market. Get yourself one of those too ... Taking notes almost never helped me, other than by keeping me awake during class.

Stop Taking Notes

[DynaSoar]

[This is a non-answer to your question. But it's a good non-answer if my success and student and teacher is any measure.]

Don't take notes in class. Seriously. I've forbidden note taking in some of my classes. I hand out copies of material not in the book. But when I lecture, I do so with the intention that what I say be listened and paid attention to. If someone's trying to write what I say, their attention and working memory is so divided that they can't be picking up much of anything.

This is especially true for maths. Of what purpose is it for you to have to watch someone write out equations? Of what purpose to write them down at the same time? Is the content of so little importance that they can waste their time and yours with speed writing exercises? The writing/rewriting is important for memory. That being so, why tax the memory with the process, reducing the result?

Ask your instructors for copies of their class notes. Explain why. If they feel it's somehow cheating, ask to record their lecture. If they're not saying the equations out loud, record in video. Then whether paper copies, audio or video, transcribe. More than once if need be. Work with them on this. It'll be to everyone's benefit. If they can't believe that, prove it by recording a class with them writing stuff as usual and people copying, and calculate how much more time it takes for them to write, you to write, you to ask what that wiggly thing is, them to tell you, them to write, them to ask if everyone is caught up, on and on; vs. hand out a paper copy, them lecture, you listen (and add just tiny clarifications if necessary on their notes).

I really am serious about this, and pushing this agenda has made me a favorite of students (who get better grades; I've tracked that too) but gotten me all kids of grief from other instructors. They see the process as one of confrontation, forcing students to do things a certain way and any other is 'cheating', or could be used for cheating, and frankly very little rational explanations are forthcoming. I picked it up from instructors who were more concerned their students learn than jump through hoops like speed writing as the sole means to collect material covered in class. I hated hoops as a student and refused to use them as a teacher. Instructors that can't get away from hoops are using them as a crutch. Help them learn to do better.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Overzeetop]

Interesting...

If find that the process of writing down class notes is what (a) keeps my mind focused on the lecture and (b) aids in review when I have the notes in _my_ order with my side notes. I've taken classes lately with professors using your method (their notes, sometimes with blanks to simplify class participation) - and it didn't "stick." Sure, I did well, but it was all short term memory - in a year the knowledge was nearly as foreign as if I hadn't taken it.

It sounds more like you prefer to provide more material than normally covered, and that's fine. I'd prefer to cover a little less and have it stick with me. As for recording notes and recopying later - I'll admit I'm a bad student. My time is limited and the hour I spend in a lecture is the hour I devote to that material - I don't want to spend an extra 1-2 hours relistening to a lecture - it wastes my time if I've done the in-class routinge correctly. Sample problems (aka homework) cements the lesson and identifies areas I don't understand so I can review them at the next opportunity.

What really cements the knowledge are the tests where I get to use a formula/summary sheet (preferably multiple for later, cumulative exams). I have notes from a decade ago that I use regularly in my office because I copied carefully in class, then when studying for the exams prepared "summary" sheets. Those sheets are - to this day - my professional references. A quick glance for the right formula, back to the notes I took (with my side points) if it's been a while, and into the textbook if I need to really brush up or have to expand on a subject.

Of course, this is primarily for engineering; math can be different, as can other topics.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

I get better grades when I take notes during class. Better yet, I understand things better when I take notes during class. I would hate being in the classes where you forbid note taking.

If you don't understand that different people learn in different ways, then you are an uneducated educator.

Have you thought that maybe your students get better grades because you grade easier or give easier exams? Perhaps not, but there are a lot of variables involved in something arbitrary like grades; I highly doubt you have successfully singled out "forbidding taking notes" as the one thing that improved your students' grades.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

I wished my teachers were like you. Some classes I take don't even have an official textbook, as the professor considers the class notes as the main reference. One professor in particular even makes a point at giving lectures in a format which is note-taking friendly, as he even configures his presentations in such a way to make sure students take notes correctly. He has been doing that for the past 10 years and it appears he never thought of the idea of simply publishing his class notes instead of forcing everyone to take dictation.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[pnot]

Amen. One of my university lecturers (in a heavily mathematical course) employed the technique of lecturing from pre-written OHP foils, which he would reveal one line at a time, at a speed which kept us all scribbling madly for the whole hour without any neurons left over to follow the mathematical reasoning -- after which I'd have to go home and write the whole lot out again, before I forgot what the barely recognizable scrawls meant. After two or three weeks of this, several of us approached him to ask that he provide us with photocopies beforehand, since he already had the material written out. He refused point blank; we quit.

I actually enjoy taking pen-and-paper notes for lectures with a lower information density; condensing the material forces me to process it. But a page of equations is already as condensed as it gets.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[rahvin112]

I would drop any class you did that in and ensure that I reward you with a terrible recommendation and report, if I was your dean I would fire you. I learn best by writing what is said, take away my ability to write and I won't learn it all. Your policy is beyond stupid because everyone learns differently. By forcing everyone to learn the way you learn, or the way you believe people should learn, you are guaranteeing that a minority of your classes won't learn anything. You should rethink your insistence that you know how to learn better than the students you are teaching because not only is your policy downright discriminatory for those with learning disorders such as dyslexia, but your arrogant belief that you know better demonstrates a superiority complex that's prevalent in higher education and a first order indicator of a bad teacher.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[mqduck]

I've forbidden note taking in some of my classes. I hand out copies of material not in the book. But when I lecture, I do so with the intention that what I say be listened and paid attention to. If someone's trying to write what I say, their attention and working memory is so divided that they can't be picking up much of anything.

I commend you greatly for that and think it's a wonderful idea, but I don't know about *forbidding* note-taking. There are some people (not me, but some people) for whom information sticks much better if they go through the motions of writing it down.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[niiler]

While I have heard this theory, there is also the act of deriving in real time. My mother-in-law, the educational psychologist, says:

• Doing is better than watching. Students are more likely to catch errors as they go (this is good!) and are more likely to be engaged. Class becomes more of an activity and less like just watching a movie.
• With languages and maths, copying stimulates kinesthetic memory and makes it more likely that students recall what was said. (note that deriving is even better).

Although I do provide all of my notes to my students, my experience is that students who take notes in class do better. (I too have tracked this - it would be interesting to see what we are doing differently in each of our cases.)

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[dkf]

I would drop any class you did that in and ensure that I reward you with a terrible recommendation and report, if I was your dean I would fire you.

Warning, this is not a good idea! You'd be talking to the dean of mathematics about this, and the dean (being a mathematician) would probably just tell you to stop goofing off by pretending to take notes and to listen and learn to the lecturer instead. The teaching faculty will tend to be intolerant of any student they think is not applying themselves properly...

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, as both a teacher AND a student (at the same time), I have to disagree with you strongly.

Research has shown that people who just take copies of the class notes and highlight them, and/or just highlight information in the book, do MUCH POORER than those who take notes. Putting what the lecturer says in your own words is an absorption method; it forces the information to pass thru iconic memory into short-term memory, and be REHEARSED in short-term memory so it has a flying chance of making it into long-term memory. Which is where you want it to be. It has nothing to do with speed-writing exercises, nor with distraction. It has to be absorbed.

The ones you speak of, who get the better grades -- if you allowed everyone to take notes, they would be the ones who would get the better grades anyway. They like the rule, because they get less bored. I sympathize with them -- I'm taking several classes right now where I am WAY above the curve, and I get bored with the discussion and repetition. But what you are doing is hurting the next tier of students -- those who could do well, if they could take notes and the pace was a little slower. And everyone below that, who really NEED the notes and slower pace, and explanations, to do at all well.

I teach computer science; these are hard concepts, that have to be come at several ways before everyone gets the idea. We take as much time as necessary to make sure that everyone gets the critical concepts. Someone is bored? I give him some extra-credit assignments to keep him busy.

Students learn in different ways. No one is saying that taking notes should be the "sole means to collect material covered in class", but that happens to be a means that works best for a rather large number of students. (If it didn't, students wouldn't do it, or want to). For you to discourage it, or outright outlaw it, is irresponsible. "More concerned about learning"? Those instructors are more concerned with not having to explain themselves to students who aren't getting the concepts. If a student is asking "what's that squiggly thing", it's because they don't understand the concept -- not because it's necessary to take the notes.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be wonderful in Scholastitopia... but we have engineering and mathematics professors (U.S. university) who don't speak English and don't know how to use a computer. ALL of our comprehension comes from working through the equations in ours notes, post-lecture.

Typing equations directly into searchable note-form is far more efficient than wasting HD space with video that I need to review later. Much less trying to ask a professor to photocopy notes for us, which the department is unwilling to pay for (yes, that was the excuse given).

To original parent: I've found that typing equations in Ti-89 function-form has worked quite well, with macros to replace deriv, sum, and intg with d(), (), and (). If you're really a stickler for proper looking formulas and equations, there are Ti PrettyPrint Latex converters around.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[niiler]

Are you confusing me with the parent poster? I just said that people who take notes do better. If it was not clear:

• Copying is better than watching
• Deriving (that is thinking as you go) is better than copying

Seriously, I was disagreeing with the parent. I think you just focused on the word "copying" and stopped reading.

Furthermore, I do NOT ban people from taking notes in class, nor do I force them to take notes. I do provide copies of my lectures regardless of their learning style.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing is an effective learning method. Having the lecture on hand could be more effective if it's put together well, or if it's recorded..

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

As a dutiful young (science) undergraduate, I dreaded the lecturers who insisted we put down our pens and listen, because if I did not take notes, no matter how carefully I listened, I did not absorb complex information or detail. In those classes, I'd hide in the back amidst the goof-offs to sneak open my notebook. When I read Peter Drucker's "The Effective Executive", the reason for my deviance finally became clear. He makes the distinction between people who take in information by listening, and people who take in information by reading. So now - being older and ornerier - I politely disregard all such instructions, recognizing that the person giving me them is probably an aural learner, for whom listening is effective.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[TorKlingberg]

I almost always took notes in class and almost never read them afterwards. So why did I take notes? Because it helps me think and stay focused.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was your committee on academic standing I would recommend that you be dismissed for the GPA that not paying attention in class would get you, at least if you were this proud of it at the hearing.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Speaking as a tactile learner, and an engineering/mathematics graduate student, I find that I cannot concentrate on what someone is saying UNLESS I'm writing it down. The phrase "in one ear and out the other" doesn't even begin to cover it. I've attempted to learn in the way you describe during my undergraduate education, and have had professors who handed out material, then covered it in lecture. I ended up throwing away the provided material and relying on my own notes entirely after several disastrous exams. Some people simply cannot absorb auditory information without note taking.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[owlstead]

I always made notes while in class. Not because I wanted to write down everything, but to write down what I found important or taxing. Writing things down makes you remember things better. You can also write things down your way and not in the way the teacher writes things down, with side notes and all.

Personally, forbidding students to write things down is downright patronizing. Students will create their own personal method of studying and it does not help if they are dictated in each and every class on how to do things. I'm also afraid that if you don't keep a good tab on your students, only the good ones will benefit with your approach.

I must admit though that for maths you might very well be right. Writing down the equations is a waste of time if they are already jotted down, and writing down only part of the equation makes not so much sense in most cases. Chances on errors is also larger.

If you don't let people write things down you MUST supply them with a copy of the material, making sure that you include each and every step. If possible you should show this to a novice student before distributing to make sure that you include things that are obvious to you, but may not be so obvious to others. Adding a page with some things discussed in class would also help.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. It sounds like the OP needs to take some education classes. Learning styles vary. A great challenge that teachers face is that in any given class there will be a variety of represented learning styles, most of which are not the same of the teacher's. Aural learners are perhaps the easiest to reach - you just have to talk at them (or with them, for choice), but that leaves all of the visual and kinesthetic learners out in the cold.

Yes, it is frequently the case that students will mindlessly copy whatever you put in front of them and what you say just flows in one ear and out the other and the notes are useless because they have no context. But that has more to do with poor note taking skills then much else. It is important for students (and even post-students) to figure out how they learn so they can develop good practices. It is also important for teachers to be sensitive to how their students learn (and it will change in every classroom) so they can adjust to the students.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Kneo24]

I'm always amused at comments like yours on Slashdot. They somehow get modded up. You're upset because you learn one way and would rather have instructors doing that, ensuring that only a minority do well... Wait a second, that's just what you said! Holy shit, the street goes both ways! You're right in that everyone learns different. Why couldn't you have fully applied that thought to your statements?

Secondly, who fucking cares if it's discriminatory towards students with dyslexia? You think a dyslexic student at any age is going to understand whatever it is that they have written down? The only group of people I see the teaching style that you rage against having a very negative effect against (because of their learning disorders) are pre middle school age. At that point the (even before then really), students are separated into different groups based on their abilities. If you're teaching a lot of slow kids, I doubt someone is going to cover extra material in class. It just doesn't make sense.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[dschmit1]

I think many people miss the point of the OP. This teacher wishes to give his/her students the maximum amount of exposure to the material. Verbally with lecture, visually with preprinted notes, and tactically with the, hopefully recommended, practice practice practice of the material. OP might have neglected to say this in the post, but that's the accepted practice of teaching these days. And if OP is not doing this, then OP should start immediately before I start having the same complaints.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[m_number4]

You mentioned something here that make a lot of sense and that is 'attention'. Listening with attention and gaining direct understanding is the quickest and most effective way to learn something. Young children don't usually have the same attention span as adults (or as adults should have) so learning by writing over and over makes sense but after a certain stage it should be that students are able to direct their attention on what someone is describing and be able to follow that. That is the most economical and wise use of a techers time in the classroom setting and one I'd longed for throughout my student years but never had. Well done, your students will love you for it.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[gizmo_mathboy]

http://bentilly.blogspot.com/2009/09/teaching-linear-algebra.html

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

I completely agree with you. Copying from the board or slides leading to errors is not good for learning. I post my notes on my web page for two days and take it out. Students can print it and write new material I write on the board for various scenarios. This is created on the fly and no preplanning was involved on my part. Some examples come just when I start lecturing and the examples are very unique. But I refuse to post questions and answers for exams. Most mature students love my teaching and caring, grade grabbers complain all the time( 80:20 ratio). Writing with one hand, mumbling some thing and erasing by another hand is not teaching at all. See, hear, repeat is the best way to learn.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Poor you. You come to learn and no instructor on earth can teach all students. Teach by example, analogy, rote learning, experimentation and combination of pictures are the methods available. So, what you are suggesting is to find out every student's way of learning and tailor make the lectures!. Teaching is for the 80% of average students - future job seekers and tax payers. Top 10% don't need any ones help, the bottom10% are in the wrong class. People with special needs should discuss with the instructors and ask them for help. If you resort to complaining to Dean etc., you are not going to get any high class professors. No one assumes that when he or she teaches people should learn the same way they have learned. The problem is there are not "high quality student oriented text books" and publishers have no incentive to change this. If you bring discrimination into this, you are also discriminating against those who do not have your affliction. So, your rational thinking is to figure out how to get help, not yelp.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[rahvin112]

I'm always amused at comments like yours on Slashdot. They somehow get modded up. You're upset because you learn one way and would rather have instructors doing that, ensuring that only a minority do well... Wait a second, that's just what you said! Holy shit, the street goes both ways! You're right in that everyone learns different. Why couldn't you have fully applied that thought to your statements?

The reason you probably find it humorous is your reading comprehension sucks. The OP said he WON'T LET HIS STUDENTS TAKE NOTES. What I said is he should mind his own fucking business and teach the material and stop trying to tell his students how to learn. Refusing to let students taken notes or learn the best way THEY learn is assine, stupid and fucking pretentious. As I SAID I'm a visual leaner, I'm not alone, most of the people in my field are very much like me as we are predisposed to the career. I had a professor in college that thought he knew the best way to learn, he was the single most hated teacher in the college. He fit the stereotype too, self righteous, convinced he knows better than the student how the student learns. Typical behavior for self important college professors. Not everybody learns the same, people have the right to learn how they choose, not have it dictated to them by a self righteous asshole, professors should stop worrying about what their students are doing and focus on the material, doing otherwise makes you a terrible teacher.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[gilroy]

Wow. I hope I am making the mistake of responding to a troll, because if you genuinely believe what you wrote, you are a sad sad person. People with dyslexia aren't "slow" and they certainly aren't what you wanted to imply, which is stupid. They have a neurological condition to affects their ability to visually process information -- a condition which, in fact, they can overcome by training themselves to compensate. I teach, and I have taught dyslexics as well as non-dyslexics. You know which group was in fact smarter on average? Neither ... because it's not about "smart".

The reason ignorant people think dyslexics are "slow" is that the ignorant people have one model of learning and when someone fails to follow it, they conclude that person is flawed. But in fact, when given the freedom to adapt their learning styles to their unique demands, dyslexics (and many other supposedly "slow" students) prove themselves as capable, mentally, as so-called normal people. In fact one thing educators have learned -- which apparently hasn't filtered down to your level yet -- is that there is a nearly infinite variety of learning styles and that none of them is "right".

As for the GPP, I understand why the prof might recommend that his students not take notes. I think it's misguided but his experience leads him to that conclusion and who am I to gainsay it? But to forbid students from attempting to learn in the style they've developed -- a style, by the way, which seems in no way to detract from anyone choosing to do it the prof's way -- is simply arrogant and asinine. Indeed, it's about as dumb as an obsession with "covering material" rather than, say, comprehension of same.

And by the way, your "insight"

You're upset because you learn one way and would rather have instructors doing that, ensuring that only a minority do well... Wait a second, that's just what you said! Holy shit, the street goes both ways! You're right in that everyone learns different. Why couldn't you have fully applied that thought to your statements?

is so transparently bogus it's hardly worth mentioning. The parent post was not attempting to inflict a particular learning style on anyone; it was questioning why the original prof saw fit to do so. My taking notes in no way forces you to take notes -- but the prof banning notes most certainly imposes his preferred learning style on me. Despite that wonderful rhetorical trick you think you pulled, there is simply no equivalence in the two stands.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[rahvin112]

Warning, this is not a good idea! You'd be talking to the dean of mathematics about this, and the dean (being a mathematician) would probably just tell you to stop goofing off by pretending to take notes and to listen and learn to the lecturer instead. The teaching faculty will tend to be intolerant of any student they think is not applying themselves properly...

I would be happy to tell the dean that the professors job isn't to tell a single person HOW to learn. Forbidding note taking is assine and likely a violation of the students rights. In addition any idiot that thinks taking notes means you aren't paying attention doesn't know a god damn thing about learning and certainly isn't qualified to be instructing anyone in how to learn. Visual learners compose about 10-15% of the population, note taking is essential to learning for most visual learners. In college by hearing and writing material it gave me near photographic recall, if I didn't write I didn't remember any of it. Any teacher that bans note taking has abrogated his responsibility to the college, the students and learning. Everyone learns differently and it's not the job of a single professor to dictate how to do it, any that do are BAD professors and don't deserve to be teaching.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[rahvin112]

I think many people miss the point of the OP. This teacher wishes to give his/her students the maximum amount of exposure to the material. Verbally with lecture, visually with preprinted notes, and tactically with the, hopefully recommended, practice practice practice of the material. OP might have neglected to say this in the post, but that's the accepted practice of teaching these days. And if OP is not doing this, then OP should start immediately before I start having the same complaints.

I don't have a single problem with a professor suggesting a way to learn and I certainly think it's a good idea to lecture and provide typed notes, but when they step over the boundary of BANNING the taking of notes during the lecture they've stepped into the realm of telling ME how to learn with the likely result of a failing grade. That's reason to seek the professors dismissal. My senior class in college got a professor removed from undergraduate teaching for equally assine behavior, about 1/3 of the students came to the final class with their appraisal forms pre-typed they were so angry.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[data2]

Thanks. What worked for us in case of missing resources for creating complete lecture notes is a wiki that supports latex. This is run by students, as they don't see the point either and just share the burden of taking notes in class. And at our college, one is expected to know most of the proofs, so it makes no sense to just look into books to get something and being able to solve exercises. Won't get you a good grade, at least.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[kikito]

You can write all that you want while studying at home. You will have less mistakes if you have the teacher's notes.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[data2]

So... I don't get anything from taking notes. So in classes where there is someone I can copy the notes from, I just stopped attending because they are moving SO DAMN SLOW! Just because some people need to write things down to remember things, don't make everyone write everything down. Let them do the copying at home

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that the attention span differs between people. Some can't focus on one thing only. Like with ADHD. And writing down what you said is one good way of getting back on track if they "wander" their thoughts. We all have different memory capabilites... some remember everything they've heard or seen.. other's can only remember what they have repeated...

And you're also saying that the lecture notes is better than all students' notes...

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Different people learn in different ways. Not everyone is like you. Well done on your ability to teach people like yourself. However, I think you should have a look at the people who drop out of your class or do badly; your tunnel-blind view is hurting them and you.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right about the outright banning, but I've taken classes where extensive chemical structures were drawn on the board including pathways, where I absolutely had to see them drawn out in logical order with explanations of each step. The only solution for me was to video record the lecture. Not only did it get me to attend every class, but by the end of the semester I had every student asking me for a copy of the recordings to study from. I digitized them all and gave a copy to the professor. He loved them, and provided them to students who missed classes, wanted to learn on their own, or when he was sick and couldn't teach.

I also found that playing the videos in Quicktime (the old, awesome version 7, not the new crappy X version) would allow me to speed up the playback by up to 2.5x with perfect clarity (3x was usually incomprehensible). I could watch a single lecture almost 3 times in the time it would take me to sit through it once. I never wrote down a single thing, and I learned extremely efficiently. In fact, I found I concentrate much MUCH better at the increased playback rate (reminds me of lawnmower man).

After that, I began doing this in all of my classes. A minority (one or two) professors had an issue with it, which was really frustrating because it works so well. But, I will never go back to taking notes (I was never very good at it anyway).

Now I am in medical school, and my school automatically records all their lectures (sometimes there are technical difficulties) and 75% of the class doesn't even bother to sit through lecture. That works for me, as well, because I commute about an hour each way. It makes everything so much more efficient.

Every school should do this. Professors should have no choice but to allow it. It should be written into the school's constitution.

But, sometimes - it's better to ask forgiveness than permission ;-) If in doubt, don't get caught.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll marked 5 insightful? LOL @ /.ers.

First, you're hypothetically a student, then hypothetically a dean. It's nice to know how you'd react if you ever had that professor or they worked for you, except it's not happening and no one cares.

No one forces you to take the course with that professor. Let the students who want to learn that way do so. You'd take away the ability for people to learn because of your personal belief or learning disorder? Also, nothing stops you from learning the way you want. Make a copy of the notes provided by hand and you've just learned by writing. I would think this is better than the traditional method, since you'll never write down the wrong thing because you couldn't see the board up front.

You're not the dean, so that's irrelevant, and I think you'd have a hard time firing a professor simply because they provide notes to the students and require them to pay attention. Good luck with that considering the professor you responded to also posted that their students get better grades, which is the current measure of the students learning.

Seriously... if someone is at the college level and learned nothing from a professor who gives them the notes and requires they pay attention during lectures they need to consider bagging groceries or working a fry-o-lator like the rest of the borderline retarded, who're unable to focus long enough to learn some material.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[justinlee37]

This is probably just a correlation; students who take notes are more likely to be paying attention than students who don't take notes. That doesn't mean that every student who doesn't take notes isn't paying attention.

As a student and an active listener who rarely takes notes (but always studies for exams), I'm willing to bet that whether or not a student asks questions or makes comments during a lecture is a better predictor of performance than whether or not they are writing down every word that comes out of your mouth like automatons. I am frequently shocked to see many of my fellow students writing down EVERYTHING a professor says, even the most obvious or trivial information, and even if it is already covered verbatim in the textbook or lecture notes.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are some vociferous comments considering what the above poster is saying. The idea is not to stop people from writing, rather to get them writing the important stuff. It becomes an exercise not in copying word for word what is written, but rather in understanding what is written and taking notes on what is said. As a student, I would rather spend class time listening and participating in lecture discussion, making note of important comments, or writing things that enhance my understanding. Why should I spend valuable class time copying text when it can be made available to me? I would think this opens option for individual learning styles.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't we just dismiss the great point of what the OP is trying to do. Speed up the class for the people who can understand it and get more learning done for the majority.

If you've never wanted to strangle the person who constantly slows down the class with their note taking or question asking, then chances are you are that person. In which case, David Carradine yourself, please.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

Many years ago I read a book about Carl Fredrich Gauss. He was known to be one of the best mathematicians of his time. His colleague had several hundred of students, but very few selected Mr Gauss lectures. According to the book he demanded the students to take away their papers (if they were stupid enough to bring one up to the table). He started at them and told them to concentrate. One result was that Gauss remained poorly paid and his colleagues well paid. Another result according to the book author did Mr Gauss produce more well known math professors than his colleague. "So there is something with Jerry".

I stopped taking notes of a whole lecture, when I realised I hardly read the notes ( most of the stuff was in the books) and manytimes I did not understand the notes, since I had not been able to write down the explanations and thoughts the professor had during the lectures.

I do have note paper and pen with me, still, but I take different notes than before. I write down mainly two things:
1. Ideas as comes up in my mind. It can be anything. Often it is ideas that extrapolates from what the professor talks about. Often I go home and try to find out more about these ideas.
2. I concentrated and listen to the professor. I don't care to write notes about things I already knew and understand, but if there is something new and is not in the text books I make a note in my own words.

I concentrate to what the professor says. I ask myself is this correct or not. If it is correct and I already knew it - then there is no reason to write it down. if is correct and it is new to to me - then it might be interesting to consider to take a note, but only if it is not in the textbook. If it is not correct then it is getting fun I have to evaluate if I am wrong or the professor. Many years ago I attended a Pascal class, the professor explain the print fuction and he pointed out some not too good behaivor of the function, so he made a new print function, pointed out new faults and made anoter version of the function. After the fifth version of the function he was pleased - I asked the other students a retorical question - has he not come back to the original faults. They started to think and suddenly student after student started to smile.

Someone wrote he would drop out from a class where he was not allowd to take notes and complained that "your" way of learning does not fit everyone. I wonder if he sits with his laptop infront of the computer and takes notes when he watches news on the tv? We all have many ways of learning, it is not bad to train the different ways. I am constantly developing my way of learning things. If a professor believe this way of teaching and learning will be good for you, you might listen to him and try it. It might not be perfect this time, but you might become more efficient learner in the future or maybe a better critical thinker. There are reasons why there are training sessions with tutors or labs, and not only lectures - the professor believed it was a good way of learning by having a tutor to ask if you have problem to solve a problem.

Think and why not think different. Spend your time wisely and only take the notes you really need.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[gr8dude]

I teach in a university and I have recently had a special lecture in which I explained to students which mechanisms they can use to memorize and understand things better in class. My approach is very different from yours.

You may want to take a look, I filmed it and will upload it to the Internet soon (writing the subtitles at the moment) - you will see that different people learn in different ways, and by forcing them do it your way you render some people helpless.

I believe that teachers should not tell students how to take notes in class, it is up to them to determine what the modus operandi should be. When you design a program, you have one part that deals with the logic, another one with the representation of the data, another one with input, etc. This provides a great flexibility and allows you to easily modify how the program looks without changing anything else. It is the same with learning - you are just their source of information, you are not supposed to tell them how to store it, how to represent it. By doing that, you're preventing them from using more efficient methods or methods that work better for them.

You can find more details about my lecture here - The write right rite, the video is not yet available (writing subtitles is soooooo slow), but when it's there - I think you will find it useful. I will be very glad if you don't forget to check that page every now and then, and provide feedback afterwards.

Re:Stop Taking Notes

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who studied a little higher level mathematics, I'd like to proffer the opinion that it would be nice if some of the more advanced stuff be supplied on paper by the lecturer to the students at some point -- especially if the lecturer has bad handwriting.

I remember well several times being thoroughly confused with proofs that I wrote down with logical errors simply because I could not read the lecturer's handwriting or my vision blurred after a while staring at the white board trying to decipher what looked more like scribble than anything else. Worst is when I jotted down the name of the proof wrongly and there was thus no mention on the net of it. Boy, that was great fun to find out on the night before an assignment was due.

1968?

[Tablizer]

I once took a class in AI in which the professor showed us a film from the late 1960's that demonstrated just such a tool. You wrote an equation in math notation with a light-pen (or something similar) on to a screen, and it translated your marks (pen movements) into an internal representation and then displayed a formatted version on the screen. (Professor Blackwell, I think was his name, and he worked on part of that project before teaching.)

If it could be done for a research project in the late 60's, then surely it's still technically possible and could probably do better. It's amazing that much of the UI technology we take for granted now existed in the 60's (as expensive research projects). Graphical GUI's, dragging, mice, light-pens, stroke character recognition, etc. Sutherland's great work included. Much of it was funded by the military for use in radar analysis, interactive flight planning, etc. Xerox extended these by using the overlapping paper metaphor in the 70's.
     

Re:1968?

[vrmlguy]

I once took a class in AI in which the professor showed us a film from the late 1960's that demonstrated just such a tool. You wrote an equation in math notation with a light-pen (or something similar) on to a screen, and it translated your marks (pen movements) into an internal representation and then displayed a formatted version on the screen.

If it could be done for a research project in the late 60's, then surely it's still technically possible and could probably do better.

I remember that project. As I recall, it was all well and good up to the moment the software went sentient and tried to kill the researchers. DARPA dropped funding and began a campaign to convince everyone that AI would never be practical.

Re:1968?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe this thing exists today: Livescribe (I'm not affiliated, never tried it, but read about it). It's pretty cool, regular pen, digitizing and OCR'ing what you write, recording spoken word at the same time and what not.

Re:1968?

[symbolset]

The research did continue. I would give details, but I'm afraid my comment posting module prevents it for some reason.

Re:1968?

[cysurfer]

I use the Pulse Smartpen by LiveScribe for note taking. It captures everything I write on the page, including drawings and doodles, as well as recording the lecture and links the recording to the text that I wrote. You can then sync it to your computer (Windows or Mac) to get a digital copy of your notes and recordings for easy searching and bookmarking. The notes can also be shared with other people or use the myscript add on software to convert your hand written notes to digital text.

Anoto? Digital pen & paper?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.anoto.com/anotopendocuments.aspx

How much LaTeX

[quantaman]

It's possible the author is taking more advanced math than I did (although I would be able to handle the equation in question), and/or is a slower typist, but I was able to handle equations like that along with matrices when taking notes. It was tough at first but after a few weeks I was moving along pretty quick and was only a hair slower than the analog folks.

There were only 2 real problems I found.

1) When a new topic came up I'd have to do a quick google to find how to make the relevant terms.

2) I never found a good solution to draw and integrate diagrams quickly enough.

For 2 maybe there's a fancy latex editor or maybe just practice (I didn't have much latex image experience at that point). But overall I found that the value of having nice notes outweighed the two negatives.

So it is highly course dependent whether LaTeX is viable. But depending how many LaTeX notes the poster has taken there is a possibility they simply haven't had quite enough practice and will be fine if they stick with it.

Not really a suggestion of software but....

[EvilGrin5000]

I used to take notes electronically all the time and I ran into your problem in different classes. What I realised though, was that it was not a matter of speed, it was a matter of categorizing! Allow me to explain. You said you wish to take notes so you can sort them later and what not, that's a great idea and it worked great for me too! What I did for my equations though, was write them by hand on a notebook and (in the notes) refer to them as EQ1, EQ2, EQ3 etc... When I got home, I would review my notes and I would then type the equations in the notes! This proved to be sufficiently fast if you have a notepad that you can fit on the desk with you (if you have a full-sized laptop, maybe try a smaller notebook). I ran into this problem when I took a CS class that was making use of flow charts, I certainly didn't want to draw the damned things with a tablet, I simply drew them by hand, referred them in the notes as fig1, fig2 etc, and when I got home I would (sometimes) scan the drawings and paste them in! I know this isn't a suggestion for software, but maybe it can help you with your notes in the mean time.

Searchable

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of you who are recommending plain paper are missing a very important point: The ability to search through digital data (in stark contrast to analog).

Pen and Paper is fine in multiple categories: cheap, easy, your free to do whatever you want. (And it has this nice, satisfying feature that you can rip it to pieces and smash it against a wall without destroying expensive and fancy techology) Worked fine for me till now (I, myself, study mathematics)

But it has one very major flaw: You can't just type CTRL+F on your trusty college book. Which would be kind of a dealbreaker if there were ANY alternative which could match it in adaptability. My professors tend to write some quite fancy symbols once in a while, I just can't imagine how any handwriting-recognition-software could handle this. So it's paper for now. But I'm sure I could save many workhours if I could easily search through my writings in a digital fashion...

Some very geeky students manage to type along with LaTeX, one of them uses an 7" netbook and I admire him deeply for it... and I even know one who does it in MSWORD (he has memorized most of the ASCII-Codes for certain symbols... admiration is somewhat lesser in this case...), but they hardly keep up.

Re:Searchable

[harlows_monkeys]

Most of you who are recommending plain paper are missing a very important point: The ability to search through digital data (in stark contrast to analog).

You don't need to be able to search the notes for a given lecture DURING the lecture. During the lecture, you can type your notes into the computer, but where an equation or series of equations is needed, write those on paper, label them, and insert the label into the notes. Later, after the lecture, the equations can be transcribed into the digital lecture notes.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:What's old is new

[0100010001010011]

you'll have recreated the fabulous 2-buck pen-and-paper experience. Go you!

The question I don't understand is WHY. The quoted statement outline the end result pretty clearly. I understand slashdot loves to use fancy technology to solve simple problems, but sometimes simpler is better. I already have a HUGE set of properly formatted equations all nicely written out, it's called the Book.

Note taking, for me, was to summarize what the teacher said, in MY words so that I could understand it later. I just learn by writing it down, there were some classes that I never kept the notes. I'd grab what ever scratch paper was by the printers, write on it, and toss it after class. (Statics. F=0, how hard is it?). I still have quite a few of both textbooks AND notes for a class. I have the hard equations and then I have how I learned it. Heaven forbid ever become an engineer, where the teacher is drawing simply supported beams on the board, the teacher is drawing feedback control systems.

Anything worth writing is worth writing once. If someone already wrote it in the text book. Then that is good enough for me. In some classes we'd photocopy the problems out of the book, cut them out and paste them on the homework. It was better looking than my drawing and clearer than my handwriting... and I can guarantee I never made any transcribing errors.

Instantly digitized notes seem like they'd be great for classes where the content will never exist again outside of that class. Philosophy debates, taking notes as a reporter, etc. You're going to spend more of your time trying to figure out how to make that '2' go subscript of that '4' in the numerator with the summation block than you will learning the content. Put down the computer. Grab a good mechanical pencil and a $.50 notebook from walmart and quit worrying about it.

If you HAVE to have a digital copy. Take notes on something that can easily be separated into individual sheets (3 ring binder and 8x11s with 3 holes). When the semester is over take it to any decent multifunction machine, put it in the top and let it scan everything for you.

Re:What's old is new

[aallmighty]

Monoprice has tablets starting at around $17. I have the $36 8" x 6" one and it works as well as the $200+ Wacom tablets in my experience. http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10841

Mathematica is really the way to go

[Interoperable]

It saves tons of time. The entry of equations is fast and you don't even have to finish the derivations yourself, just hit Shift+Enter and there's the result. The only real trick is trying to get the prof to let you take your "notes" into an exam...that and the price tag.

Seriously though, I'm going to throw my vote behind the pencil/paper method. If you want, digitize later, but pencil/paper gives you necessary flexibility. You need to be able to work through derivations as you go, follow along. Keeping up isn't enough, you have to follow the logic of the lecture and having room to do scratch work on the side, full and easy control over the layout (which is important to how you organize ideas) and the ability to see what you're writing down is all critical.

If you insist on digital input is has got to be a WYSIWYG editor (not that I have one to suggest). LaTeX is irreplaceable for writing a thesis but you'll never follow the logic of what you're writing if you're looking at source code. Transcribing what the prof writes just doesn't cut it for advanced math, you have to follow along and I argue that that means using a pencil.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Office Vista has a nice Equation editor. I few clicks and you can enter Equation.

Lite Scribe Pen

[Anonymous Coward]

These things are awesome

http://www.livescribe.com/

$200 and never miss anything, brouhgt one after i saw it at conference and have nevre looked back wish they existed when i was a student.

Re:Mac's Typography; in short: transcribe your not

[Anonymous Coward]

There's also /Applications/Utilities/Grapher.app which, with a bit of practice, may be suited to the problem.

Don't bother

[KiwiCanuck]

It's a complete waste of time. Notes are useless after the course is done. I kept mine for 10 years after I graduated, then tossed them. Textbooks are of some use. Cheat sheet were the most useful. If you MUST write notes digitally, the just put a number for the equation. Then write the equation down on a piece of paper, and type it out later. Or have some generic equations pre-written in another file, crtl+c, crtl+v. Honestly, in 10 years or less you will find that all your typing was a complete waste of time.

Re:Don't bother

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a complete waste of time. Notes are useless after the course is done.

I agree. Notes are only good for reviewing for exams or for help with doing homework problems during the semester when you're taking the course. It's easier to remember what was being discussed then; most of those notes will lose all context when looking back at them after the course is done. That's what the textbook is for, keep that if you need a reference later.

google docs

[Anonymous Coward]

doesn't google docs have a good equation editor?

http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/09/google-docs-has-equation-editor.html

Funny!?!? Paint is actually a good idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually more in favor of pen and paper myself, but each methods has advantages and limitations and it has already been discussed here.

If you must use a computer, then I think using paint or an equivalent simple drawing program to draw equations is a pretty good suggestion! It is really fast and has no learning curve at all, although there is a question in my mind about the readability of your drawing -- but that improves with practice. I also don't think you could do it without a mouse-like device.

Keep both your word processor and the drawing app open so you can switch between them. Give each equation a number when you draw it, then reference the number in your notes. Use some standard naming convention to relate the files .. e.g. chem101-lecture-2009-10-25.odt and chem101-lecture-2009-10-25.drw (or whatever the program uses for file extensions).

MathType

[Anonymous Coward]

I found that the WYSIWYG editor + keyboard shortcuts for MathType was fast enough for me to keep pace in a lecture.
http://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathtype/

P.S. The free trial version contains enough features for most lectures / note taking.

Re:Mac's Typography; in short: transcribe your not

[drussell]

The equation editor in WordPerfect (any version since way back about 5.1 for DOS) lets you enter equations as nice simple text and does a remarkable job of formatting them correctly for you (I used to use it ALL the time), but it probably isn't "fast" enough to enter them on-the-fly like you want.... Probably best to enter them graphically into your favorite program (perhaps with a stylus in this case) and then clean them up later if you like. I've seen several programs over the years that let you use a regular laptop touchpad as a small tablet, but can't recall any specific names off the top of my head. Used to even be built into some of the early touchpad drivers... I'm sure google would be your friend on that one...

I recommend against digitized pen math notes

[cmason]

So, this is just my experience, and I'm sure you won't listen or will have a different experience, but:

I tried taking electronic notes in maybe a half dozen undergrad math classes using a Newton message pad in ink mode. I believe that I did significantly more poorly in those classes than if I would have used pen and paper. It was just too futzy. The Newton worked fine, because it wasn't trying to recognize, but the added layer of technology didn't justify itself in terms of the potential but unrealized benefits of search- or store-ability.

I did homework assignments in LaTeX and got quite fast in it, but not fast enough to take notes with it using a keyboard. (Although I sometimes felt like I got points off because my work was too easy to read!) The classes I did best in I took pen and paper notes and then later transcribed and condensed these into LaTeX study guides.

On the flip side, for less notation-focused classes, like say, literature, it was awesome to be able to search my electronic notes and I think this justified the effort in changing my handwriting so the Newton would read it. I still see the effects of this in my writing today!

Good luck!

-c

Prof says: paper and pencil

[goodmanj]

Hi, I'm a physics professor. I say, take your notes on paper. Math is the most computer-incompatible writing system ever designed. You'll never ever be able to type equations fast enough to keep up with me on the blackboard.

And even if you manage to find a math entry system that's fast enough, it won't help you with the diagrams, graphs, and sketches.

Of course, I don't practice what I preach: my own lecture notes are in text files. But that's because to me, "block ramp friction mu=0.2, 1 kg 30deg 1m long, find final v. U=4.9 Wf=1.7 v=2.5" is a complete set of notes for a 20-minute segment of lecture.

Oh, also: write in pencil. I guarantee you that whenever you bring a pen, I will spend the entire lecture correcting minor mistakes by erasing with the heel of my hand, changing variable notations, and editing diagrams and drawings halfway through working a problem.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[bockelboy]

I got my PhD in math and took a few grad-level physics class since.

TeX-based notes in many math classes is very doable. I got to the point during my math degree that I could type equations way faster than the professor could write in the board. I still type faster than I write on the board when I teach. Functional analysis and algebra were the best for typewritten notes; numerical analysis was the worst due to the number of matrices.

TeX-based notes in a physics class (especially less theoretical ones) is a slow-moving disaster. Visualization and diagrams (at least for me) are way more important in physics than they were for my math classes.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[sensei moreh]

Oh, also: write in pencil. I guarantee you that whenever you bring a pen, I will spend the entire lecture correcting minor mistakes by erasing with the heel of my hand, changing variable notations, and editing diagrams and drawings halfway through working a problem.

I used to do that regardless of instrument with which my students would chose to write their notes.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[jim_v2000]

"Hi, I'm a physics professor"

And I'm a PC.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[owlstead]

Somehow you come over as (quite) a bit of a show-off. Show-offs are not good teachers.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[goodmanj]

Yeah, but Murphy's Law says the prof will be especially scatterbrained on the day you bring a pen.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[Eudial]

You are right.

Besides, handwritten math has had hundreds of years of development put into it, while computer based math typesetting is young and currently lacking (the keyboard just isn't a very good way to write something as non-linear as math). Sure, you can write pretty math in TeX on a computer, but it's a lot slower, and lacks the versatility of handwritten math. It's a good way to write a paper, but not for taking notes.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[dronkert]

Somehow you come over as not (quite) a university student.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[dronkert]

Ah well, not very nice. Please disregard.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[Jon Abbott]

Seconded. LyX combined with OmniGraffle was the best for capturing equations and diagrams in near real-time.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[backwardMechanic]

The best technology-based solution I've found is my old Fujitsu laptop with stylus and touchscreen. I can write equations, draw graphs and diagrams. I was very pleased with it. Then I realised it was almost as good as a pencil and paper, but not as fast or flexible. Now I use pencil and paper. Or a pen if I'm feeling confident.

Re:Prof says: paper and pencil

[owlstead]

Never mind that - I was a university student 9 years ago. But can you imagine having goodmanj as a physics teacher, "spend the entire lecture correcting minor mistakes by erasing with the heel of my hand, changing variable notations, and editing diagrams and drawings halfway through working a problem".

Gosh, I can already imagine the fun.

Scientific Notebook. Top of the line math editing.

[gestalt_n_pepper]

Used to work there. Honestly, you can't beat it for mathematics editing, graphing, etc. Saves in Latex if you want. Free trial downloads too if you want to give the tires a kick.

http://www.mackichan.com/

Re: Not answering his question

[g01d4]

Not clear to most posters why he's already assumed the keyboard bit.

Use a camera

[harlows_monkeys]

Take a photo of the equation on the black or white board, and on your computer, invoke the command that puts a timestamp in the file. Later, at your leisure, you can pull up the timestamps, and match them to the photo timestamps, and transcribe the equations.

Wacom + Curio

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been using Wacom tablets for lecture and research notes for four years now. At first it's quite hard to use a pen tablet as opposed to a tablet computer, since nothing appears under your stylus, and you have to write while watching the screen instead of your hand. But I got quite used to it within a week. Adjusting the scaling between the tablet and the screen may be important — an 8" tablet worked badly when I tried to map it to my entire 23" screen, but mapping it to about half the screen worked fine.

For portability and for study advantage you might well be better to transcribe paper notes, but you might still want to do the transcribing with a tablet and handwriting instead of TeX or text. For giving lectures and for research calculations, I find two great advantages of electronic notes over paper: they're instantly searchable (not the scribbles, but typed text); and I can fix up my equations by drag and drop, copy and paste. The speed-up for making nice, neat notes this way, instead of on paper, is comparable to going from typewriter to word processor to produce a fair copy. My handwriting is not as elegant as typeset equations, but it's enormously faster to draw integrals and fractions and so on than type out TeX.

As a program to handle the tablet input on a Mac, I use Curio. Curio lets you drop in pictures and figures and typed text, adjust the page size arbitrarily, and a bunch of other stuff as well.

My experience

[ledow]

- I hate writing, and always have and avoid it wherever possible - it hurts my hand and my handwriting is awful.
- I was using computers way before anyone else in my school, I even took some of the lessons that I was supposed to be taught in (the teacher found it easier that way).
- I went to university to study Mathematics and Computing and had already had five years (at least) of proper exposure to things like Maple, Matlab, etc. (I was doing my A-level projects in Maple when nobody else, including my teachers, had even heard of it) through my brother who attended the same university.

Every single mathematics-based lecture, for three entire years, I hand-wrote notes. It's the only sensible way to do so. There isn't a notation or shorthand that can cope with rapidly sketching down formulae (especially integrals, sums of series, etc.) and diagrams. In some subjects, a simple diagram showing an angle, or a particular piece of geometry is invaluable and could takes hours to reproduce properly on a computer. I know, because for the last ten years, I've worked for tuition centres, state and private schools and I'm often asked to professionally produce an electronic version of their course materials (99% of the time mathematics because that's my speciality).

Don't waste your time, memory, money and brainpower - just take pad and pen, or use a touchscreen/tablet PC if you *insist* on using a computer. When you're taking notes the last thing you want to be doing is taking down the mathematics like it's some kind of gospel. There will be a million books on the subject where you can find the nuts and bolts of the process, but if you lose that "feel" of the mathematics that you can only get by watching someone apply it in front of your eyes, you'll never truly understand it.

The point of a lecture is to demonstrate and explain and give opportunity for questions (yes, ask questions... why does *nobody* ask questions in lectures? It isn't forbidden, just don't waste everyone's time with trivialities!), you learn more in a ten minute lecture on a particular subject than you ever will by studying the materials from that lecture. *Being* there, with the enthusiastic tutor, and the commentary they give, is what makes the mathematics explain itself. Everything else is just paper-based memoranda of that lecture. Someone, somewhere will be selling notes from that lecture. I've taken copies of complete stranger's notes (with their permission) when I missed lectures for reasons beyond my control. Notes are memory-aids only. Wasting an immense amount of time recording them in such a fashion is to focus on the aesthetics of the tool, not the job you're doing with that tool. All you're actually doing is writing the book that your lecturer learned from, you're not learning anything, and doing so at great expense. Your concentration should be on the mathematics happening in front of you, not the paper in your hand or the computer under your fingers.

I often just sat in awe when I was in a lecture and watched the mathematics unfold in front of me, sketching only notes on the specifics.

Scribble notes. If you have special needs, ask to video/record the lectures or for the lecturers to provide assistance afterwards (and complain to the highest authorities if they don't let you). Then, study, study, study from your notes, your memory, your skills, and the vast wealth of materials on every subject imaginable. Anyone can find out how to apply equation X to input Y, or read a book on graph theory or calculus, but advanced mathematics is more about the patterns and the art of being able to discover, use and apply that knowledge, not copy from rote from two-year-old notes.

I graduated. Not a great grade but I was hitting a wall in my abilities in even the first year, a wall I've never been able to pass in the years since. Some courses ran like water through my sieve of a brain, and some were just second nature (and still are). But at no point did the actual taking of my notes interfere with

Re:My experience

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally, someone who doesn't say "pen and paper" but "pen and paper or tablet PC".

Yes, a tablet PC is the solution, if you do want to use a computer for its benefits (easy replication, alteration, and archiving; to keep all my notes in one place; searchability of what text I put in, etc.). A separate tablet won't really cut it. (Well, a Cintiq would, but no way are you bringing that to class.) I'd recommend HP's tx/tz series for students; it's a bit bulkier than some of the Japanese ones, but cheap enough to be affordable. If you're a freak enough to tote a bluetooth keyboard (I was), you might consider the smartq5; I used an N800+bluetooth keyboard sometimes, and a tx2000 other times, but the N800 was just a hair too small.

If, OTOH, you can really afford a nice system, go for a U820 -- it should be unbeatable (on paper -- it'll probably be obsolete before I can afford one, though...).

Re:My experience

[PhilHibbs]

- I hate writing, and always have and avoid it wherever possible - it hurts my hand and my handwriting is awful.
- I was using computers way before anyone else in my school

You just said the same thing twice.

Mathematica

[thesman]

Have you tried Wolfram's Mathematica?

Not only it helped me take the required notes on every math related course but also helped solving/confirming many problems.

Not really saying if its cheap or overhead... just saying that it worked for me.

Cheers.

Was a math major undergrad, took notes on lappy

[SeePage87]

At the time I used straight LaTeX, but I made it work. The trick was to get a good editor and set up keyboard shortcuts for common things to blaze through the process quicker. Add on top of that a bunch of renaming functions in the preamble to save keystrokes for other common actions and keeping up isn't much of a problem.

That being said, I'm going to cast my vote for Lyx because you can still do all I suggested above, but it greatly aids in building tables, matrices, and other things that'll slow you down a bit. And don't be afraid to use shorthand that won't format properly when necessary, as long as you know what it says you can always fix it after class or during a lull in the lecture; I find this typically takes less than 5 min. And use lots of white space. And reconsider what the best way to keep notes is; when you have a medium with the flexibility of files, folders, etc, I find it's usually better to take notes by topic instead of chronology of when it is said.

Funny story, took notes all semester for my stat class that way and we got to use 1 page of notes for the final. About 20-30 minutes of copy/paste-ing gave me every equation we used, qualitative descriptions of what they do and when to use them, and a whole host of other useful stuff. Never studied beyond doing my homework (which I only did most of the time) but I got a 297 out of 300, highest grade in a class of ~150 and about half a standard deviation above the next highest score...

paper

[jipn4]

You could write a little script that lets you write LaTeX equations but leave out the backslashes. I don't think you're going to get anything much faster than that for computer input.

You could write them down on paper and then scan them or typeset them later...

Livescribe

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you considered LiveScribe?

Re:What's old is new

[_merlin]

Those notebooks just aren't practical to use on your lap: the numeric keypad might be nice, but it means the main keyboard and trackpad are off-centre to the left. Also, an 80x120 tablet is too small to be usable for writing - it might be OK for a bit of photo retouching, but not much else.

Slashdot: Questions From Idiots

[Anonymous Coward]

Stuff That DOESN'T Matter.

I'll write it again: What a stupid FUCKING question.

What's next on Slashdot: How to Do I Keep My Drink Cold While Working On Homework?: Refrigeration With Cryogenics: Liquid Hydrogen, Liguid Nitrogen? No, absolutely NOT. Use Liquid OXYGEN.

How Do I Maintain Alertness During The Day In College Classes?: Please schedule an appointment with a neurologist to see if you have narcolepsy! Please visit a nutritionist to see if your diet is deficicient ! Absolutely NOT! Use METHAMPHETAMINES. They work .

How Do I Graduate From University With Grades HIgher Than C?: Do your fucking HOMEWORK, moron.

Thanks in advance,
Philboyd Studge.

Easy

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy. Get Maple

Then write code to do your homework, at least that's what I and every other respectable geek did in higher level math classes.

if you're on a mac...

[circusboy]

It comes with graphing calculator. which would seem to be tailor made for what you're trying to do...

Ironic

[Anonymous Coward]

I have run into this problem and managed to overcome it. Just use Microsoft Equation using shortcut keys. You can insert a new equation, almost any mathematical expression and save equation using only your keyboard and it gets really fast, almost like pen + paper. If you need more functionality, you can use MathType, it will definitely cover all your needs.

Re:Scientific Notebook. Top of the line math editi

[ledow]

Holy crap, is that bit of software still going? I remember seeing that back when I was an undergrad (>10 years ago now) and it was well-established even then. Never used it but "Scientific Word" had a bit of a reputation among some of my older peers.

Grapher.app

[jaxom]

It's quite easy to use, comes with your laptop and provides good copy and paste between the equations that you are entering and other applications. The downside is that the library of functions isn't that complete since it's orientated towards actually producing graphs. As with everything, I guess it depends on what you are doing...

It can be found in /Applications/Utilities/Grapher.app.

webcam?!

[Tomahawk]

Just point a webcam at the lecture's overhead board and take a photo...

You can tie it into the notes, and add it using an equation editor later on.

T.

Infty Editor

[UltraAyla]

I used Infty Editor in my classes - I think it's based on LaTeX but, it was pretty quick. I didn't use it to take notes in realtime though, so I can't tell you how successful that would be. http://www.inftyproject.org/en/software.html

Mathcad

[Anonymous Coward]

I used mathcad in college for the classes that were not too heavy on the equations.
For classes like physics and process control it worked fine.

And on the subject of having to find symbols that someone mentioned you can just write out a word to define it as a new variable.

I had equations after classes that contained stuff like "osquiggle^pHat = 193.7" which worked fine ;)

Costs a bit though, but was well worth it as I could use it to plot stuff efficiently. While my fellow students would labor to draw 3d graphs on paper using colored pens for turn-ins I would just plot em in mathcad ^.^

Re:MathCad

[Anonymous Coward]

I used MathCad a lot in a previous engineering job, and I got to be pretty damn fast for most tasks. I'd recommend giving it a try, but you need to learn the keyboard shortcuts (not too hard) to make it quick.

The upside is that it can also be used to actually do lots of math - actual or symbolic. The downside is that in order to make it able to do math, sometimes the notation is not exactly standard..

Re:What's old is new

[linj]

Yup, second OneNote.

If you can find an edition of OneNote 2010 (Technical Preview, currently), it's even better. OneNote 2010 has equation editing similar to that of Word 2007, which, if you've actually used, you'd realize has all sorts of Latex-like features, just that it's transcribed on the fly.

You can type

\int_-\infty^\infty 5xdx

or whatever, just the same way. Matrices are a bit different, but very much possible;

\matrix(1&0@0&1)

Creates a 2x2 identity matrix.

That said, don't pirate software. :D

TextMate

[hawkbsd]

TextMate is a great text editor and it has a pretty sophisticated templating & tab-trigger system. You could define your own tab-triggers to produce templates that you fill in with the equations. The bonus here is that you can define your own.

I use the templating system for writing code, but the same concepts would apply to using it for equations.

Re:Scientific Notebook. Top of the line math editi

[Phleg]

Seconded. Although at the time I was in college, I ran Linux, and couldn't use Scientific Notebook. So I just learned LaTeX instead. Got damn fast at it, too, copying notes in real-time. But my experiences with Scientific Notebook were absolutely enjoyable.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

I've recently returned to university, using an amd64 netbook (with a better display than most and more full-size keyboard--running sidux64, like all mine) and just this bamboo pen pad. 31yrs ago, when I started in physics, I wrote only with a fountain pen on quad pads. It's still by far the best way. But I'll use a small camera, the pad, and digitize those outrageously-priced texts with the camera stand I built. And I'll combine all of the aboves.

I do recall some annoyance at one particular prof from back in the day. She used 8 colors of chalk for her drawings on board. Very annoying to not replicate in notes. Even tried the three-color-ink pens, but that was far too much trouble, and never could compete with a proper fountain. (She was like everyone's grandmother, so no one complained.) Later, I took to cleaning the boards with the real sponge/bucket included in every room in our department, mostly to make them easier to read, with my poor eyesight. That became an anonymous tradition, before slashdot!

I also started the "tradition" of giving complete solution sets (with all steps written) to all the students, so they'd each have a fully-worked set before the exams. Cost me a ton of money, but my kids were the tops there. And they didn't have to scramble to make their own poor notes. They could listen and learn, or so I hoped. Oh, and a set of my notes sat on the corner of my desk, in case they tried to find me and couldn't. The honor system worked to keep them there, except for one student, who swiped them without replacement. Found him years later--as a dentist. Scares me to this day.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

Like in the old days... by hand with a pen and a sheet of paper.

You need a specialized keyboard

[selven]

You can't use the standard keyboard which requires you to reach over to the shift key to access mathematical symbols and has the numbers way at the top. You need a numpad in the center (789 UIO JKL M works well) and keys around that mapped directly to things like + * and (. Screw the exponent symbol - numbers at the front multiply, numbers at the back, eg. 24(x+2)3 = 24 * (x+2) ^ 3. Map every key you can find to some mathematical symbol (you might want a specialized font). This will give you the fastest you can get without special software.

A tried and tested solution...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've actually typeset maths (vector spaces, probability etc etc) in LaTex directly in lectures directly. At the end of the lecture a nice pdf ready was ready for printing. How?

I had a infra-red keyboard and Palm Zire 72 with a wifi card. I simply ssh-ed into uni servers and used vim with vim-latex. With a .vimrc, all sort of defined abbreviations allowed me to generate the LaTex markup quickly. For example: .sc -> \subsection{ .ssc -> \subsubsection{ .* -> \times ./ -> \frac{

At the end I just hit the \ll to compile. Worked like a charm on far less powerful hardware than you mentioned. However, you do need to define your own abbreviations and know LaTex well. If you are an emacs user, you could also try emacs -nw

Just the solution I used - a fancy GUI frontend may be faster than typing the full markup out but not as fast as defining your own keyboard abbreviations.

I still don't see it

[NotQuiteReal]

Can you please just show the mathematical equation for this curve of which you speak? That way we won't have to use imprecise words.

Re:I still don't see it

[rant64]

Can you please just show the mathematical equation for this curve of which you speak? That way we won't have to use imprecise words.

y = x on a learning curve with a shallow incline.

That's because time slows down if your head is into complicated stuff.

Re:What's old is new

[hugortega]

Wacom's Bamboo on windows having a Mac?... Leopard has a fantastic support for tablet pen. much better than windows vista. Also, with a bit practice, you can use LyX or any other equation editor, combined with Leopard's hand-write recognition. Just an idea

Win7 MathInputPanel

[Anonymous Coward]

Win7 has MathInputPanel application; if you have digitizer, you can just draw symbols as you would on paper, it will recognize the math. Of course, advanced payment of MS tax is required.

Slashdot user, which can't recover lost password from Slashdot.

TeXmacs

[Zillidot]

Back when I was taking math classes, I used a program called TeXmacs for taking math notes. It's a (almost) WYSIWYG editor with a well-designed system for inputting equations, using sensible key bindings for all the common mathematical symbols and operators.

Despite the name, it's not related to either TeX nor Emacs. But it does use TeX's fonts - which result in equations that are almost as good looking as the ones from TeX.

It worked fast enough for me to keep up with all my math lectures.

MS Equation Editor

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't understand why you dismiss MS Equation Editor out of hand. I find this universal derision everywhere, from grad students to professors. If I tell a professor I typeset my homework in Microsoft word, he or she will often give me a disbelieving look filled with disdain.

I have been using this software to take notes in math classes for the past five years now. It's remarkably simple to use. Just type "alt+" in any word document, start typing mathML shorthand, and it pops up instantly, with none of the syntactical fluff of straight LaTex. Plus, the shorthand symbols of MathML and LaTex are nearly identical, and you can interleave equations with Excel charts and Word drawing primitives (something EXTREMELY useful for physics.)

I have horrid handwriting, and write extremely slowly, so typing things out in MS Equation Editor makes things about twice as fast and much more readable. I also typeset all of my homework that involves math symbols in MS Equation Editor.

You're taking the piss?

[Pvt_Ryan]

Pen (that thing with ink you hold in your hand) + paper (that stuff we use in printers to put ink onto) = writing equations quickly.

Come on computers are good but ever heard of the right tool for the job?

Re:You're taking the piss?

[Pvt_Ryan]

Just to add to the above. I was recently on a MS course for work, it was about sccm 2007. I made all my notes on paper with a pen.

I would like to point out i generally use a computer where ever possible but honestly it was quicker and easier to use the pen and paper it also allowed me to annotate the course book & notes.

Mathematica

[levicivita]

Mathematica suprisingly has a very decent set of formula editing shortcuts, see for example this link. You may be able to export to LATEX or other formats, I cannot remember. Of course, that is one hell of an expensive text editor.

You need Windows 7

[IcyWolfy]

Buy a cheap wacom tablet, and use Microsoft's Math Panel Input Editor on Windows 7. Amazing recognition of handritten scrawl to MathML equations with preview and quick-fix for any element.

Paper and pencil? OH PUHLEEZE!

[RevWaldo]

As an oldster now back in school I use my laptop (an 8+ year old PIII) for notetaking whenever possible. I can type way faster than I write, and I can actually read it afterward. OpenOffice Calc works for well for me. I can copy and paste, draw, highlight, search and replace, etc. etc. I can skim through all my notes in one big scroll without flipping pages. I don't have to read through eraser smudges. And for my CompSci courses I can copy code written in my notes and paste it right into CodeBlocks. Sweet.

And the laptop in class has all the other advantages you'd expect - digitized books (legit and otherwise), browser ("What did the professor mean? (google, wikipedia) Oh, that's what he meant.") Even streaming music into my headphones to keep me awake during my one evening lecture.

The one place I haven't been able to use the laptop for notetaking has been the math classes, for the exact reasons the OP mentioned. I burn through a dozen single-sided pages in a ninety minute class just so I can write big and keep it all legible. I'll be checking out LyX (once they're no longer slashdotted) and some of the other recommendations.

And yes, I am upgrading the laptop (soon - the battery's crapped out.) I was considering a tablet just for the math classes but it sounds like there may be better alternatives. Unless anyone cares to recommend a good tablet?

Besides - how many students are even now trying to work out how they can take all their notes on an iPhone?

Re:Paper and pencil? OH PUHLEEZE!

[coaxial]

Even streaming music into my headphones to keep me awake during my one evening lecture.

Oh yeah sure. You're totally paying attention while you're rockin' out to Math and Physics Club.

Question

[sycodon]

Why is this information not already available in digital form ahead of time?

Would it not make for more productive class time if the students could print the notes for the class before hand and then spend the class time trying to understand and ask questions then instead of taking the notes and then asking questions the next class?

Re:Question

[wigaloo]

I used to hand out notes for my lectures, but then stopped doing it. Students fall asleep in class if there is no physical activity, and the act of note-taking is very important for keeping the brain engaged -- particularly in a mathematical class. When I first started at the University I was very idealistic and thought I was going to change the way teaching was done. The hard lesson was that there is a reason why professors use chalk and blackboard. It works.

Re:Question

[sycodon]

Hmmm....

Well, the one thing that always bugged me about math classes is that the practical aspects were few and far between. It was like doing nothing in English except diagram sentences, conjugate verbs, etc.

Guess that's why I'm a programmer. I can make my own rules.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, but sometimes graphs and other pictures are cumbersome to draw. Handing out partially completed notes makes things much easier on the students, especially in classes that require a lot of diagrams (physics, circuits, etc).

Re:Question

[jschen]

Why is this information not already available in digital form ahead of time?

I remember my freshman physics class with Prof. Georgi. Even now, as a PhD organic chemist, I consider it one of the most fascinating classes that I ever took. He gave us full copies of his lecture notes in advance of each class. That doesn't change the fact that I was scribling lots of notes during the lectures since I was doing my best to understand everything he covered.

Re:Question

[Darinbob]

Because it's not really that productive. Many students will stop showing up for lectures if they can get the notes in advance, or only show up at the end to get the homework assign copied off the board. A lecture is more than just a regurgitation of what's written down on paper. There will be impromptu discussions, working through problems, revised material, all that you may want to take notes on.

If it was this simple, then all you'd really need to do is buy the text book, read the chapters ahead of time, and be prepared to ask questions in class or during TA sections on the subject matter that you're confused about. But this rarely occurs. Why would pre-printing the notes or making them available online suddenly solve this centuries old problem?

It would be great if students prepared before a lecture. Then the lecturer could do more than just go over basic material, and instead go more in depth, cover the side issues, have more questions and answers, work through more problems, etc. Instead it's just about covering chapter 3 with the assumption that at least half the class hasn't gotten past chapter 1.

We had lots of notes available for purchase when I was at the university. You could get a job taking notes for this purpose. We'd show up a day later and pay a little bit of money and then you'd have your notes for the class you missed. This in no way eliminated the actual need to take notes when you were there. When I was a TA you could tell that the students who had the purchased notes and none of their own tended to be the ones struggling the most.

Re:Question

[syousef]

I used to hand out notes for my lectures, but then stopped doing it. Students fall asleep in class if there is no physical activity

Don't blame the students. What you're teaching is boring, or the way you're presenting it is boring. Making them manually copy down every line because some get bored is an awful way to keep them awake. If they don't want to attend the lectures they shouldn't be forced to.

When I first started at the University I was very idealistic and thought I was going to change the way teaching was done. The hard lesson was that there is a reason why professors use chalk and blackboard. It works.

The way things are going smartboards are the future. Deal with it or become a relic.

Re:Question

[HuguesT]

You haven't been in his class, so you don't know.

I've also found that if students are given a copy of the slides beforehand they don't listen as well, skip ahead, etc. Whereas if things are written on the board, people are forced to concentrate and write, draw, think, ask questions, engage and have a better chance of understanding in fine. Also the material can be presented in multiple ways, whereas a single figure on a slide can be confusing.

Go have a look at the MIT Gilbert Strang applied math lectures on the web. This guy is well over 65, he should be a relic, but he teaches enthusiastically on the blackboard like a young man and it works. It even works on video !

Re:Question

[MattskEE]

The thing about math is that it isn't by itself a very practical field. Its true value, its great value, is in its support of other technical fields. Engineering and the physical sciences depend critically on math to solve problems. Heck, a degree in computer science (real computer science, many universities these days are more of a software degree) is practically a math degree with an emphasis in computer applications.

The ones who really understand the math behind the systems that they work on are often the ones with the best intuition about how a system will work, and they tend to have a lot of people working underneath them to take theory and ides into reality and products. But as fields mature the amount of math the average person in that field uses will decrease, and while there is some fantastic math providing the foundation of computer science, I don't think you need it all that often.

Re:Question

[TheLink]

> It even works on video !

If it works on video there's no reason to rewrite stuff that's already written on the board.

See the "problem" if everything is on the copies and the presenter isn't very interesting (or interactive), there's not much point listening to the presenter. But that's not really a big problem since the student can go back and look at the copies.

Some presenters on the other hand, put all the background and required stuff on the slides, but then go on to recount interesting and insightful anecdotes. That makes them worth staying awake for.

The only problem I see is if students are bored they might be more likely to become disruptive or distract other students (snore too loudly then everyone starts giggling etc).

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

It works, depending. I have had math professors who would-and-did cover the blackboard with equations faster than I could write them down, let alone take time to understand them. When they got to the right side of the board, they'd go back to the left, and erase their previous stuff to make room for their newer stuff. Despite cries and protests from the class, they would not modify their behavior. Brilliant mathematicians, lousy instructors.

I also had a CompSci prof who used pre-prepared overhead slides and overhead scrolls. He'd talk and make notes on the overhead slide/scroll, and then switch it away before we could finish copying. So many times I wanted to walk down and just break his fuckin' wrist! After months of pain and frustration to his students, he started handing out mimeographed copies of his pre-prepped stuff before the lecture started. It was far easier to add our notes to the handouts.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

I can understand that this approach works for most people. But it doesn't work for me.

I find taking notes extremely distracting and find that I usually get a lot more out of a lecture when my attention is focussed entirely on the lecturer.

And in case you're wondering, I get good marks, and more importantly I feel like I really understand the material.

Re:Question

[data2]

Problem is: In a math class which is quite advanced, and where the content is assembled from 5-10 books, having no lecture notes sucks. Learning or just looking something up is pretty hard, because hand written notes will never match up to something typed. So that's why I prefer notes done by the lecturerer, but as there are seldom ones, someone at university has written a wiki which supports tex.

Re:Question

[TheRaven64]

One of my father's lecturers described this process as transcribing words from the blackboard to the students' paper without the intervention of their brain. It doesn't matter if the students are awake if they are just mechanically transcribing things. If students are falling asleep in your lectures, ask them questions and get them to participate, don't make them do something tedious to keep them awake.

All of my lecturers except one handed out printed notes and it meant I could actually pay attention in their lectures, rather than just copying things down. I eventually stopped bothering attending the lectures by the other one and just bought a book. All I was doing in his lectures was writing a very poor textbook on the subject, and it was a better use of my time to just read a good one.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

In general, I hand out few notes, just those where I'm trying to make a point graphically, and want a good reproduction of the images for their study. I agree that the act of note-taking is an aid to learning, but disagree that using a computer is necessarily evil. IF they're surfing the web, they're wasting their time and their parents' money, not anything of mine... I'll see them again when they're ready to learn. I could never combine legible writing and speed in notetaking to my satisfaction, and a small notebook computer was my salvation. With a couple of decent equation editors (all too ancient, now to cite, and this was in my Windows era) I did just fine thank you.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I am not sure your mission should be to punish those students that genuinely want to learn by making them take notes just to somehow 'help' the lazy ones. I am doing a master degree in Statistics and I just totally hate when I don't have proper notes available beforehand. Your system might be suitable for lazy students, but in college we are grown up and if they don't care neither should you. Notes are... well.. Notes!!! a BRIEF record of something written down to assist the memory or for future reference. When I have to spend 4 hours in a row writing formulas instead paying attention to some difficult concepts... well... trust me, I don't think I feel very sympathetic with the lazy student needs... Nor with the professor chalk and blackboard mentality.

Re:Question

[PAStheLoD]

Sadly, just using my arm isn't going to keep me from falling asleep. I regularly have to struggle to stay awake in class. Even if it's an interesting, easy-to-follow subject. However, after I go outside of the classroom, strech my muscles, get some natural light, I'm not sleepy anymore. Magic.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

When I attended university I never took notes during the mathematics lectures beginning with the second term. I learned better by listening to the lecture and since the lectures were keyed to the topics in the textbook I used the textbook in class as a place to write short annotations if necessary. Some courses usually in the humanities and social sciences require note taking. Not surprisingly my highest grades were in mathematics courses.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm also teaching math and beyond a certain level, students won't be able to think as fast as you teach. They can either take notes or think about what you say. If you don't distribute notes, they don't have a choice so they will mindlessly take notes without understanding anything. What your describing runs counter to what I've always seen in my classes: if my students have notes then they can concentrate on something else than mindless copy.

Sorry, but the true value of not distributing notes is forcing students to come to class so one can boast off: "all my students come to class, my course must be so interesting".

Re:Scientific Notebook. Top of the line math editi

[gestalt_n_pepper]

As far as I know, it's still a going concern. Don't know how much development is still going on with it. I haven't worked there since 1998,

TeX or LaTeX

[pruss]

TeX or LaTeX with some prewritten templates you copy from class to class should be pretty fast with practice. In addition to TeX macros, you can define keyboard macros in your text editor, so if you, say, type alt-i you get \int_{}^{} with the cursor in the first braces. You can also write a perl or even sed script that runs before TeX to remove the need for some of the backslashes--e.g., it could replace "sin" with "\sin" within equations (and in the rare case where s, i and n are variables, you can space them).

Win 7 Paint

[westlake]

microsoft *pain*.... fix that for ya.

There have been significant changes in Win 7.

This version uses the ribbon UI, adds brushes and anti-aliased shapes, which can be resized freely until they are rasterised, supports alpha channel transparency for PNG and ICO file formats and saves in the PNG file format by default. Paint (software)

vimlatex

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a math grad student and so far the best bet I've found is vimlatex. It's a package that adds a bunch of macros to vim to speed up latexing.

Pens and a large notebook

[Anonymous Coward]

For learning math, not for mere calculations:
I never use separate papers any more, because after a week of intensive studying I can never put them in the right order.
I never use a pencil, it doesn't look well and it doesn't feel right.
Also I use multiple colors whenever possible.
A good notebook of your own is worth having, and nowadays you can always get computerized lecture notes from some of your classmates.

Cell Phone

[stormcoder]

How about recording the lecture using a cell phone and otherwise pay attention to what the lecturer says. You can then take notes from the video or audio.

Grapher?

[vaalrus]

Grapher is the "version" of Graphing Calculator that currently ships with Snow Leopard, I don't know if it's too clumsy for quick transcription. As for TeX based stuff... I gave up in-line typesetting in the eighties for both proper layout and old-school word processing... *shudder*.

Re:Grapher?

[yklktk]

Grapher is the "version" of Graphing Calculator that currently ships with Snow Leopard, I don't know if it's too clumsy for quick transcription. As for TeX based stuff... I gave up in-line typesetting in the eighties for both proper layout and old-school word processing... *shudder*.

It's worth looking at - after all it's on your MBP, so nothing to lose. You can enter equations into Grapher just by typing. The equation shows up in "typeset" form, and can be copied as TIFF/EPS/PDF images (you choose) and pasted into other documents like TextEdit, Pages, Word, etc. Multiple equations can be stored in a Grapher document for recall or reuse.

Pen and paper all the way

[Anonymous Coward]

I did CS with a minor in Physics, so I took just about every math class there was. I, too, wanted a way to take notes electronically. I tried just about every method, and in the end I think pen and paper is the way to go.

I used a precursor to the IOGear Digital scribe - basically a regular pen with an ultrasonic transmitter. There were receivers that detected the pen's position, so you could in effect turn a regular notepad into a digitizer. Quality was ok, but there were occasional mistrokes and the resolution left something to be desired.

I actually took notes in one particularly equation-heavy neural networks course entirely in vim using LaTeX. It was interesting, though somewhat harrowing. Missteps with my editor or not remembering syntax did occasionally leave me getting behind and missing something.

Honestly, I think the best answer is just to take notes on paper and transcribe them later, either into LaTeX syntax or using an equation editor. You'll learn and retain so much more that way.

pragmatic hybrid solution

[demosthesneeze]

If you're like me you probably type normal text faster than you can write it legibly.

For the plain text part, you'll probably want to stick with the computer.

For the equations, type in a cross reference id like "eq15a" and scribble the equation onto a small pad of paper and write the id in the margins.

At the end of the day you can just insert the equations into the computer at a leisurely pace.

Alternatively, learning shorthand might be allow you to take notes on pen & paper sufficiently fast. I haven't tried it myself yet but it seems promising.

Re:pragmatic hybrid solution

[Shuh]

Mod the parent up! This is the solution!

End of discussion.

Re:pragmatic hybrid solution

[jonadab]

> Alternatively, learning shorthand might be allow you
> to take notes on pen & paper sufficiently fast. I
> haven't tried it myself yet but it seems promising.

The math world has its own notation, which functions as a sort of shorthand and works very well for writing the kinds of things you write frequently in math notes. For instance, consider the following assertion:

Let a and b be any two distinct elements of G, such that a is greater than b. For all elements a and b, there exists a third element c, also an element of G, such that c is greater than b and a is greater than c.

In standard math notation that's about 25 characters (not counting whitespace). None of these characters takes significantly longer to write than the G. You can write it faster than you can read it aloud, no fooling.

Re:pragmatic hybrid solution

[jonadab]

> If you're like me you probably type normal
> text faster than you can write it legibly.

Math notes contain surprisingly little normal text. The most likely place for it to occur is in the description of an upcoming class event, e.g., "Test Thursday, Chapter 7". These words can be abbreviated, e.g., "Thu" for Thursday, but you're still writing multiple letters per word.

In contrast, practically all of the words and phrases used to describe the actual *math* are reduced to standard math notation, which generally runs the ratio in the opposite direction: multiple spoken words per written character (a colon for "such that", an upside-down A for "for all", a backwards E for "there exists", a lowercase epsilon for "is an element of", etc), or at most one character per word (L for "let", wrt for "with respect to", and so on).

I do not see how a computer keyboard could possibly speed up the process of taking math notes. You could set up macros for a few of the symbols, but there aren't enough keys on the keyboard for all of them. Even if you type 120 wpm, a pencil and paper would still be faster for math notes, because you wouldn't have to be doing Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Rightclick-Cokebottle gymnastics for all the special characters. A custom input method and/or macros could help with some of it, but you'd have to be able to record new ones on the fly in two seconds every single time your prof uses a symbol you haven't seen before (say, for a new operation in a modern algebra class). New symbols are a *frequent* occurrence in higher math classes. Do you really want to go digging around finding the correct Unicode codepoint every time (if it even exists, which occasionally it won't)?

It's not worth the hassle. Just use a pencil. If you want the notes on the computer, scan them after class.

Definitely MathCAD

[Anonymous Coward]

I use this daily now, wish I knew about it in college. It allows equations to be put in very quickly and has the added benefit of being "live", which means it can actually perform the calculations. From an engineers point of view the best feature is it's ability to work with units.

In terms of speed everything has a shortcut assigned and the equation appears as you type it.

LaTeX worked for me

[Otik2]

I took notes in LaTeX for all four years of college, including upper-level math and CS courses. It worked fine for me. Once you get used to it, typing most symbols is just as quick as writing them. Long formulas or lots of embedded fractions and things make it more difficult, but you can still type it pretty quickly, especially if you don't worry about compiling it as you go (which I did, and which was perhaps a bad idea since it does slow you down).

As some other people here have suggested, you can also define new commands to help you. One class I was in started using a lot of diagonal matrices, so after being slowed down a bit the first time I defined a new command that would easily let we write diagonal matrices. You can similarly define new keywords or languages or whatever you need to help you stay on top of things.

It might not work for everyone, but if you type fast and know LaTeX well it is easy and can work well.

Apple Grapher

[Anonymous Coward]

Grapher is pre-installed in your Utilities directory. It has a pretty intuitive equation writing input. However, it does not support everything -so it may not be perfect.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

If FSM had wanted us to write by hand, he wouldn't have invented the typewriter.

Ask your instructor

[Sepiraph]

Maybe OP is asking the wrong question, how about asking your instructor to print/scan the note for all the students? After all, students are the 'consumers' in class, especially given the relatively high cost of University education this should have been a given (assuming that it is in a country that wasn't free).

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Try a Digital Camera

[Saracenus]

I am not a math major but my chosen field requires some understanding of math (go accountants!). My solution for complex graphs, math equations, and symbolic images was simple. I took a digital camera to class, asked permission to shoot digital photos with the flash turned off, and then transcribed the material from my digital images after class.

If I am taking text notes I would make a notation when I took a picture so I would insert it later. Otherwise, I would just listen and every once in a while shoot a shot of the dry erase/chalkboard.

I'd just record the presentation.

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably can't type / draw fast enough to keep up with a fast presentation.
If you have a netbook/laptop with audio and a small webcam, the best option may be to just record the
audio and record the presentation as a video recording as well. Then you can go back and improve your notes for any sections you didn't get a chance to fully transcribe or understand at your leisure.
If the presenter is operating off of a power point / slide deck or uses any kind of recording white board or is having their presentation taped then of course you should ask for access to the media directly from the presenter since it will probably be the highest quality and easiest to use material.

IMHO there is no good reason to be distracted trying to make a rote transcription of a presentation which you can barely keep up with -- that's a sign that something is wrong with either the presenter not presenting things in a usable format at a reasonable pace of information density, or a sign that you should be using some other technique to get reference materials from the presentation. Your attention ought to be focused on trying to understand the big picture and not transcribing furiously.

Webcam

[CopaceticOpus]

What about getting a small, good quality webcam, preferably with a zoom feature? When your professor writes out an equation, point the camera at it, take a quick screen capture, and paste it into your notes.

Give it up and Use Paper.

[coaxial]

Seriously. Just stop trying to type notes. We both know you're just dicking around on facebook. Just take notes with paper. You can write equations, draw graphs, and whatever else you want, including little stars and hearts next to your favorite equations.

If for some reason you really need to type your notes, do it after class. You have a problem of your own making.

Re:What's old is new

[DarkOx]

I completely agree with this. I did exactly what you suggested when I was in school. If you went to the computer lab there was a scanner with a document feeder available. This was a number of years ago now; these days you can probably expect to find them in every academic building on campus. In my case I was in Information Science and Minoring in Comp Sci so I was always near the computer lab anyway.

For those class where I could not just keep a terminal window open to my shell account and type my notes and or for classes like math or Computer architecture where I really needed to sketch things this was they way to fly. I just scanned it to tiff after class and copied it to my home directory.

It was great because I could review my notes anywhere on campus and just fetch them to my home system via ftp with a shell script each night; never had to carry around much of anything.

Textbooks should support this

[ColoradoAuthor]

Most math, physics, and engineering textbooks leave important equations as an "exercise for the reader." The tradition is surprisingly pervasive--I've had to search through as many as a dozen books trying to find certain formulae. This makes it unnecessarily difficult to find key information if one hasn't taken notes in class, or when coming back to the text for reference or review.

Plea to instructors and department chairs: Please choose textbooks that can serve as reference resources to your students as they study and after graduation. Plea to authors and publishers: Please include all of the central equations, and use formatting to make it clear which equations are "universal" and which are example or special-case equations.

Wacom + Win7

[Shados]

A cheap Wacom Bamboo (100$ or less depending which one you get and where you get it, can go a fair bit lower with some looking) does the trick.

Use Office OneNote 2007 (2003 not worth mentionning) if you want to do everything manually, or if you want to input them and have character recognition, Windows 7's handwriting recognition is vastly improved over XP's and Vista's, and can handle equations fine, though for complex ones you may need to train it a bit.

How to do this on a MAC

[goombah99]

Use LatexIt on a mac (simmilar is EquationService). This is a service. so you are in a text editor like textedit.app or word,. you type the latex equation, then execute the equation service from the services menu (using an assigned command key). it changes the latex to an equation and pastes in the graphic in the same spot.

you are typing latex, but your are not screwing around with creating files and latexing them.

Another realtime latex on a mac is grapher.app

Re:How to do this on a MAC

[Anonymous Coward]

OK.... but you do know that LyX is also available for Mac OS X, don't you?

Re:How to do this on a MAC

[goombah99]

Yeah I tried it. terrible heavyweight solution if all you want is equations.

Pen and paper for me too!

[deniea]

Give it up on tech solutions; Math is best done with pen ad paper.
It's cheap, fast and accurate to the same extend as you are..

During my years in university, it was recommended you take notes, and work out your own notes afterwards. That was half the learning of it. (They even gave timescore points for it on my university if you did it or not)

Copying it from the bord and not doing it yourself will not teach you anything.

Learning Math (we are talking real Math here, not calculus) is getting into a routine, learning and doing it again and again, on paper, yourself..

I'd stongly advise AGAINST using a tool to learn Math..
(Like using a calculator destroys ones ability to do even the simplest sums)

Get over it, nothing in life is for free. No pain, no gain..

Cheers,

If you do get a tablet...

[pnot]

Take a look at the Freehand Formula Entry System (GPL). Handwriting recognition for mathematics.

Re:If you do get a tablet...

[SuiteSisterMary]

Winner! This looks pretty awesome.

Maple

[lie2me]

I recommend it, neat and clear language, many packages use it as intermediate format.

AdamDecaf

[adamdecaf]

Have you thought of adding footnote type markers to your notes and then writing the equation(s) down on paper. Later you can add them into your digital notes.

Office 2007 is the answer

[Anonymous Coward]

Word 2007 has a hugely better equation input (including latex-like input).
See this post for information:
http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_office_word/archive/2006/10/04/Equations-in-Word-2007.aspx

In a few months, Office 2010 will be out, which adds the same functionality to Onenote (which is one of the best note-taking apps around), as well as PowerPoint, for those times when you nede to present your data. :)

EXP 5.0 or Scientific Word

[Anonymous Coward]

Try EXP 5.0 or Scientific Word

LaTeX + Vim

[fraa_kenneth]

You may think it's too slow now but it pays off in the long run in a big way. Typing LaTeX in real time requires you to examine each statement in your mind to select the correct LaTeX code, this helped me with memory.

Type faster, nub!

[Anonymous Coward]

If the speaker is using powerpoint/beamer/transparencies/etc. you're probably doomed, but in that case you should just be able to ask them for a copy of their presentation anyway.

If the speaker is using the chalk/whiteboard, then I'm serious--I've seen people take notes in Latex (including equations and such) far faster than people can write them on the blackboard, so it can definitely be done (and in just an ordinary text editor). It's really hard though, since when you learned to touch-type, you probably didn't have to type so many $,\,&,(,etc. quickly and it can be tough learning to do so. Having good macros is obviously important.

That being said, is taking notes on the computer really a good idea? I personally don't really end up looking back at my notes, so I find it's more useful to write down (by hand) just enough that I'm staying alert and reinforcing the most important points in my mind, but not so much that I'm writing when I should be listening and thinking.

Copy and paste from here

[Nefarious Wheel]

If all you want is to insert a bit of notation in a readable way into a document, copy and paste is your friend. Pick a nice comprehensive page such as this Wiki page which may have most of what you need.

Make a static local copy of the HTML page for speed of access and copy the bits you need into a scratch pad, blank word processor page or paint program. (If you have a Microsoft OS use OneNote instead for its nice screen scraper - it's a reasonably nice virtual notebook by the way, used it for years, but be careful with it).

Once you have it right copy the lot as a drawing and plonk the lot into your document where you want it. It's not MathCad, it's not LaTex, but it's reasonably fast, there's no separate program environment to bring up, works and there's really nothing to learn.

I've always been a fan of simplicity, and sometimes your own hand-eye-brain interface is the best one for the job. But if you do this sort of thing a lot, survey the field and buy something purpose-built. I grew up on Fortran though and a bit of hack and slash is second nature to me, so your mileage may vary. TWAGOS.

Re:What's old is new

[mqduck]

Me, I have great difficulty taking notes and paying attention to the instructor at the same time. ADD or something, you know? I should really get a laptop, because I can type without really needing to even think about it.

Learning Styles

[mdmkolbe]

Forbidding notes is discriminatory against visual learners. You may not derive much benefit from the process of writing notes if you are primarily an auditory or tactile learner, but that doesn't justify claiming that everyone else would be better off without notes.

For a visual learner, the process of writing the notes is often more important than whether they are read later. They are a way to organize ideas or anchor them in memory and are not just a recording device.

Re:Learning Styles

[kikito]

Visual learners can still write down everything they want when they are at home, studying. They will also make less mistakes if they have a handout provided by the teacher, instead of relying on their own notes.

Re:Learning Styles

[rahvin112]

You don't understand how visual learners learn. By writing in class I cement in my memory the lecture. Hearing and writing gives me near photographic recall to the point that after writing the notes in class I often can throw them away because the act of writing what was said anchored the memory. It's not the notes that are important, it's the writing of them that is how the memory is created and sustained. That's what makes visual learners different from everyone else, they have to see and do, not just hear. If for example I take the prof's notes home and then try to write notes I won't remember more than about 25% of what was taught and as I already said after producing the notes they were rarely consulted because I didn't need them anymore. It's my understanding from my years in college that the vast majority of people can learn simply from the spoken word, those of us that are visual learners must SEE and often write to put the ideas into memory. That's why banning note taking is a capital offense to me and completely discriminatory against those of us that learn differently than the majority.

Re:Learning Styles

[mdmkolbe]

That would work fine if I was trying to memorize handouts but it does nothing to help recall of the lecture. For a visual learner, the process of writing has to occur in parallel with the event we are trying to cement in our memory.

LaTeX is not slow

[Captain Segfault]

You can type, right? Unless you use non-keyboard input I'm not sure how you're going to do better than LaTeX for math input.

If it is slow you are doing something wrong.

f_X(x) = integral(-infinity, infinity, f(x,y) dy)

This is $f_X(x) = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} f(x,y)dy$, to a first order approximation that is good enough for notes or even homework. That's fewer characters than your example!

Obviously, especially if you're a novice, you might not know the commands to do what you want -- but you can always fix up the syntax later.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

An Apple Newton. It has a steep/shallow (delete as appropriate) learning curve!

What's new is old

[fm6]

I understand slashdot loves to use fancy technology to solve simple problems, but sometimes simpler is better.

And sometimes taking notes on a computer is simpler than recording them in a dead-tree notebook.

I'm not a student, but I do take a lot of notes as a technical writer. When you have as many notes as I do, having them in online form can be a lifesaver. Not only are they easily searchable, but the disorganization that creeps in when you're taking them (you're more concerned about getting all the facts down than about keeping your notebook in order) can be easily remedied.

You can, of course, take notes on paper and transfer them to computer later. (That's an obvious solution if you're recording math or diagrams, and don't have a tablet computer.) But that takes extra time, and if you're busy you may well forget to do it. And then some crucial piece of information exists only on a piece of paper you can't find.

The question here is not "is this technological overkill?" The question you need to ask is, "what works for me?" If you're good at keeping (and using) pencil-and-paper notes, fine, do that. But not all of us are. For us, the high-tech solution makes sense.

Re:What's new is old

[0100010001010011]

If you have to post an "Ask Slashdot" it's not simpler.

Re:What's new is old

[fm6]

Oh please. By that logic you should never need to use a computer for anything, because there's always another way to do it that technically simpler. Just because a pencil doesn't require technical support doesn't mean it's the simplest solution to every problem.

Re:What's new is old

[hjf]

You know, using your brain once in a while won't hurt either.
I see the guys at my class using calculators for dividing 5/2, sqrt of 16, sin(30) and ln(1). Just because it's really easy to type them on your calculator doesn't mean it's faster or simpler than recalling it from memory.

Back to topic, try HP calculator's way of entering equations. I don't know if any computer software accepts input like that (don't see how, as the HP's keys are labeled), but it beats the crap out of anything else. Both in Equation Writer mode and in RPN (I use RPN).

Anyway, it's just stupid to take MATH notes in the computer in real time. Just, why? Before you answer think about this: equations have to be solved by the student (not bt the computer, CAS, Mathematica, Matlab, FORTRAN...). How are you supposed to solve them if not on paper?

Re:What's new is old

[fm6]

You know, using your brain once in a while won't hurt either.

If you really don't want somebody to read past the first sentence of your post, that's pretty much the best way to open.

Why are you taking notes?

[gbutler69]

Why are you taking notes in Math class? Personally, I think it is better to just pay close attention to the lecture and absorb all of what is being said and focus on thinking about it and understanding it. Textbooks (and or other references) will have better "Notes" anyway. I always did this in every Math class I took (except from that which I taught myself and CLEPed out of): Calc I-II-III, Linear Algebra 1 & 2, Discrete Math 1 & 2, Topology, etc. I always got an "A". I never took a single note. That doesn't mean I didn't study or have to work. I focused my time in class in paying attention to what the instructor/professor was saying and doing rather than writing. Then, I went home, read the book/chapters in detail and worked through the exercises and problems diligently. Sometimes it was easy, sometimes I was up all night.

TC1100

[Anonymous Coward]

TC1100 Tablet computers are running as low as $300 on ebay. I use one of these paired with OneNote 2007 and it works pretty great

Re:What's old is new

[fm6]

I've been using OneNote for a couple of years, and I'm pretty disgusted with it. Too complicated, too limited. too unreliable, too many "what were they thinking" gotchas.

Right now, I'm giving Evernote a try. Not as many snazzy features of OneNote, but the features it does have work well and are easy to access. And it's free, if you don't mind a few non-obnoxious ads. If it continues to bear the strain, I'm transferring all my data from OneNote and deleting the sucker.

Re:What's old is new

[Darinbob]

Pen and paper is very useful, even when you end up just copying it verbatim to a laptop later.

First off, writing it down the first time make you more likely to remember the content than if you just sat back and listened (same as if you used a laptop). And when you copy it to a laptop later you again will be more likely to remember the data, maybe more so this time as the concepts have had more time to sink in.

Second, not everything is a formula or text! There will be curves, surfaces, diagrams, and so forth all drawn on the white board (or black board :-).

Third, the paper will last longer. There may be times, decades from now, when you'll want to review some old class material. You paper will have survived, but your 2009 file formats will not, and the media may not be readable (the laptop will have long since died). I've got some class info on 9-track tape still, but I don't think I'll be reading that anytime soon. Or the programs I have on 8-inch floppy, assuming it isn't moldy from being stored in the garage.

Good job

[Anonymous Coward]

One useful answer and a billion posts arguing the relatively insignificant semantics/grammar/meaning/etc of a sentence in that post. Sure, it makes for good discussion, but it's so bloody useless. (I'm just bitter because I don't have enough mod points to give everyone a big fat "off topic".)

solution looking for a problem

[elnyka]

This sounds more like a solution looking for a problem to me. Paper+pencil = teh win!1

I foolishly tried once to that once, with LyX - pretty cool concept, but when you really need to write a whole bunch of equations in succession, then you end up putting more effort on getting it right on your computer than on actually paying attention to the lectures. Don't believe it? Try using LyX to jot down long-ass operational semantics formulas while trying to pay attention to what the instructor is saying.

Best thing is to jot them down on paper for later digitizing. Or use a Baboo Pen in conjunction to your laptop (I wish I had that kind of technology that cheap when I was in school.) Actually I might end up Xmas-present myself with one of those.

Re:solution looking for a problem

[elnyka]

I should expound this more: you need to be good at LaTeX so that you can quickly type your equations on LyX. Yes, you can enter your equations graphically, but for speed and efficiency, you better know your LaTeX. I'm rusty now, but I was good at it and even then, it was hard to recover from a mistake in the middle of a lecture, or worse, when the instructor makes a mistake and in mid-formula goes back to re-draw it while spouting some more important stuff that you sure as hell don't want to miss from the lecture. In other words, it's not as simple or efficient as using plain old pen and paper.

Mathcad

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience, Mathcad is an excellent choice for producing professional-looking equations without delving into latex. The hotkeys make equation entry a snap, and the equations look exactly how you would write them (as opposed to mathematic or maple). The only complaint that I have is that there is no Linux version...and their license scheme is a little bit draconian. But if you run windows, I highly reccomend it.

ASciencePad

[jeek]

http://math.chapman.edu/~jipsen/asciencepad/asciencepad.html

It's TiddlyWiki, a self-contained-self-editing-in-one-HTML-file wiki, and this particular flavor includes a WYSIWYG formula editor.

Works great in Firefox. Works in IE. Supposedly works in Safari. I haven't been able to get it to work in Chrome (can read, but cannot write)

Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

Mathematica has keyboard shortcuts for every math symbol I have ever used. Any kind of palette or input box is just wasted time with the mouse. The two universities I have been a part of have had a free student license.

For instance here is the intergration symbol
http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/character/Integral.html

your example requires 4 shortcuts which is entered
f_X(x) = [ESC] int [ESC] [CTRL]+[-] - [ESC] inf [ESC] [CTRL]+[6] [ESC] inf [ESC] f(x,y) [ESC] dd [ESC] y

heres is a list of all the symbols

http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/guide/ListingOfNamedCharacters.html

and how to enter them

http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/tutorial/EnteringFormulas.html

Pen + Paper + Scanner with ADF

[Anonymous Coward]

I am grad student in Physics. I am also an obsessive geek and I want to put everything in my computer to easily organize them. Also I don't like papers or pads because I can easily misplace it. I want to put everything in my computer that gets backed up everyday to two different places.
I've tried many different things to find the most efficient way to write down math equations. In the end, nothing beats paper and pen. Especially when I just have to work something out, or do some calculations, paper and pen are really the best tools. Using computer when you try to solve something analytically, unfortunately, is often a distraction, because it can keep up with what's in my head and becomes a bottleneck.
I transcribed the most important things with LaTeX, but for the rest, I just bring a single notebook / notepad on to which I write everything down. Then, after I finish the notepad, I cut the binding and scan the whole thing and then organize it.
So my suggestion: paper + pen + a multifunction printer/scanner with automatic document feeder (ADF). You can get one of them for about $100-$200.

Get a Tablet Computer

[Anonymous Coward]

I teach electrical engineering and have been watching this in class. The only students who successfully take notes using the computer have tablet computers and use the stylus. One student I talked to about this says he is really happy with it and would be completely paperless if the professors didn't insist in turning in homework on paper.

Digital note taker

[Anonymous Coward]

I have seen many different types of digital note takers that will store many pages of hand written notes. These are often stand alone devices that do not require a computer to input stuff. Then later you plug it into your computer and download the data. Many come with OCR software. Do a search on IOGEAR MOBILE DIGITAL SCRIBE for an example (note, I have not personally used any of these devices).

Openoffice formula

[Wayne247]

I've been using my laptop for a few years at university classes, and always found that the Formula object in Openoffice Writer is perfect for my needs.

The downside is you have a learn the names for your most popular symbols or operators in your equations, but learning it is quick and once you know it, it's possible to type in formulas about as fast as the teacher writes them on the whiteboard.

Perhaps your courses require so MUCH equations that this will not be a practical solution, but for the few mathematics classes i've had, it was fine. I could keep up, and they look gorgeous.

Grapher.app

[Seth Milliken]

/Applications/Utilities/Grapher

LaTeX + AucTeX outght to do it

[njord]

I don't see the problem; it seems like you should be able to easily beat the Prof. at writing equations with a (good) text editor you know well and LaTeX.

With the AUCTeX mode for Emacs, you get lots of shortcuts (like 'electric' backslashes and quick commands for environments) plus in-buffer previews.

Add in judicious copy+paste and you should be able to run circles around most professors writing on a blackboard and have plenty of time to read slashdot comments. If they are using an overhead or powerpoint, it might be a little trickier, but hopefully they are handing out notes.

What about Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you considered using a Mathematica notebook for note taking? Many campuses have student/site licenses for it.

I was going to suggest...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pearson's TestGen which has a really sweet equation editor, inline and live in the document...
Except that it's strictly point and click, no keyboard shortcuts. I would like to think they'd have the sense to publish a document editor based on the same technology... it appears my waiting has been in vain.

But, MathType is actually available to purchase by real people and does a perfectly good job. I prefer TestGen in most other respects, but that probably has more to do with use time than objective analysis.

Pen and Paper

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, for stuff like equations, quick-and-dirty diagrams and the like nothing beats a pen and paper. You can type it all up later if you like - in fact going back over the material, retyping and summarising is a great way to learn - but for spur of the moment, need to get it written down now stuff it's hard to beat the old pen and paper combo.

Have you tried...

[Anonymous Coward]

....typing really fast?

Re:What's old is new

[yellowstone]

I already have a HUGE set of properly formatted equations all nicely written out, it's called the Book.

1) You never had an instructor talk about something not in the text?

2) Personally, I find taking notes during lecture (or reading a text!) helps me retain the information, even if I already have my own record of what's being discussed.

5 Mega pixel camera, pens and paper

[felixhummel]

Write your notes on blank paper (not lined and as white as possible) with a dark pen. Take a picture afterwards and throw the paper away (or do some origami [1]).

Works for me, could work for you.

The fastest way electronically is ASCIIMathML, that was mentioned by anidiot [2].

[1] http://www.origami-instructions.com/
[2] http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1423997&cid=29915877

LaTeX

[Anonymous Coward]

I take my notes for physics and math in LaTeX. You should just get better. Much cheaper.

Get a tablet, use OSX

[gordguide]

Get an inexpensive drawing tablet, turn on Ink in OSX (10.5 and up; at: System Preferences: but note that the preference pane will not show unless you have a graphics tablet plugged in). Write the formulas on the tablet.

You can take screenshots (Command-Option-3 full screen; Command-Option-4 select an area to capture) to save what you write/draw and use Ink's character recognition to convert it to formulas with a check via the saved screenshots to make sure it didn't make errors. You can turn the character recognition off or on anytime via the Ink preference pane.
You will want to enable the Character Palette (at: System Preferences: Keyboard & Mouse) so you have quick access to the mathematical symbols in your chosen fonts for your saved notes.

Re:Get a tablet, use OSX

[braines]

Ink is great and completely under utilized gem in OS X, and I think you could maybe even get away with using it on the track pad without the wacom tablet if you're tight on space and don't want to seem like a total douche bringing a laptop and tablet to take note.. BUT thanks to the fact that you're using a mac, I think what might be more direct and faster even is to be able to type the darn thing? its not that hard to type your special characters: option-b is "" for sumation, option-v is "" for square root. a few parentheses latter and you have a quick enough way to write most things, pi is option-p is "" . hold down option for a while and mash the keyboard to find what you want, or you can launch the 'special characters/unicode' typing window and figure them out that way I might use optino-5 for infinity "" and option-a for alpha "å" you can probobly do a find-replace latter to fix any oddness in what you want to see vs. what you typed.

If that's how you learn

[symbolset]

If that's how you, as an individual, learn, then whining about it and trying to get the professor fired for failing to accomodate your special needs is a selfish jerk thing to do. If you're that special the obvious cure is to skip physical attendance, take the handouts and the video and transcribe the event at your leisure.

But no, you're enough of a jerk to impose the limitations of your special needs on all of the normally abled people.

Re:If that's how you learn

[rahvin112]

You don't have very good reading comprehension. The OP said he doesn't let people take notes, my "special needs" are that the professor mind his own fucking business and let me learn how I learn. If he thinks he knows better than me how I learn then he deserves to be fired because he's a pretentious asshole. It's not a teachers job to dictate how a student learns, once he steps outside teaching the material into dictating how to learn he's abrogated his responsibilities and stepped into the realm of self-help, which isn't his job. So convince me it's the teachers job to tell students HOW to learn, not what to learn.

Re:What's old is new

[0100010001010011]

I know it's common to not RTFA, but try to RTFC that you're responding to.

Note taking, for me, was to summarize what the teacher said, in MY words so that I could understand it later.

Heaven forbid ever become an engineer, where the teacher is drawing simply supported beams on the board...

Both were points to "you're trying to reinvent the wheel". If he's having problems with Equations, he'd never survive where they actually draw stuff.

MathCad

[Anonymous Coward]

It is windows only, but you can in theory enter the formula fast
then go on to notes. There is a small amount of syntax to learn, but it works good. I used in it collage for engineering reports before my army days.

EXP 6.0

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're using Windows, try EXP 6.0: EXP 6.0

It's the best mathematical editor that I've ever used, bar none. The shortcuts are easy to remember, the buttons and toolbars are intuitive, the tab stops are just right, and it looks exactly like you would expect when printed. I like the word processing features available with it too, like paragraph spacing and pagination. This is how Word's equation editor SHOULD have been built.

OpenOffice

[Goeland86]

I thought the syntax in your equation looked somewhat familiar, but it's not quite it. Have you tried using the openoffice equation editor? Or, for that matter, in a text doc, just insert a formula (alt-i -> f or something like it for the shortcut). It lets you enter an equation using a simplistic syntax, and then shapes it to look "real". Admittedly you may need to judiciously learn how to use the parentheses and square brackets to make it work right. But I did that for some of my advanced math classes, and it worked like a charm. It really makes life easy, and it automatically adjusts the size, lets you do multiple lines etc. There's a little "tablet" of standard functions, but once you learn the keywords and figure out how to use parentheses to make it select the right thing it'll become easy and accurate. Cheers.

Take it from a math grad...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pencil and Paper buddy. Pencil and paper. No one involved in high-level math writes stuff down on a computer until it's finished. No serious math student takes notes on a computer. Plain and simple.

Whatever advice people here give will work for certain rigid examples, but inevitably you will find some subtle math notation that you can not accurately express in any computerized form (that's at all quick).

Windows 7 Math Input Panel

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you tried the new Math Input Panel in Windows 7? It automatically converts handwriting into mathematical equations.

Math and keyboards are not the best match

[Elazro]

If anyone gets to the 495th or so comment, as a former mathematician, I recommend a pen and paper. If it helps you to have it in ASCII text (for searching, etc...) then take a few minutes at the end of the day to transcribe it.

My rationale -
A) Basic mathematical notation has evolved over a few hundred years to be concise and easily manipulated. It once was that equations were all described in text, so that even the description of the square root of a number was cumbersome ('a quantity, which when multiplied by itself yields the original...'). Expressing mathematical entities in textual psuedo notation, while quite a bit better than in prose, is a step backwards.

B) As you get more advanced in mathematics, you will most likely find the need for diagrams anyway (depending on the field). For instance, commutative diagrams in algebra, or all the bizarre pathologies in analysis (such as the 'walking ghosts'). There may be packages to do specific kinds of diagrams, but they will likely be unwieldy.

So get a nice pencil and paper. Or, like has been mentioned many times in this thread, get a Pulse pen. It's no worse than a pen ('cept for price), and you might find it useful.

(mini-review)
  I recently got a Pulse pen, and while I'm no longer taking class notes, it's quite handy. It's a tiny bit large for my hand, but fairly comfortable still. You can search for the textual parts of your equations, and it mostly finds them. I've downloaded the MyScript OCR free trial (for Mac), but I don't think I'll buy it, since it does a poor job with my poor hand.

Mathematica

[CoolQ]

I love how everyone here is telling you to just pencil and paper. For the past 7 years (through both college and high school), I have taken all of my math notes in Mathematica. Every symbol, even the most esoteric ones, is at most four or five keystrokes. For example, an integral like integral x=0 to inf (x^2)/xbar is quick to enter:

integral template -- ESC i n t t ESC
bound -- x = 0 TAB ESC inf ESC
value -- x C-6 2 RIGHT C-/ x C-5 UNDERSCORE

it's really quick to type, and you'll quickly learn the keystrokes from the character palette. I haven't taken a single note on paper in any of my math classes since about sophomore year of high school.

--Quentin

Use grapher built in to OS X

[Anonymous Coward]

I used grapher (in the utilities folder on OS X). Fast enough for me, and it doesn't take a lot of training.
Integral = option-b
infinity = option-5
sum = option-w

(did you know slashdot strips special characters?)

It handles where to put all the numbers after you get the symbol in very well. You can right-click to copy as latex (or text), but I always just dragged them into my document, which brings it in as an image, which was good enough for me.

Bonus is that it will graph stuff if you put it in in the correct format.

Online Equation Editor

[brendank310]

http://www.homeschoolmath.net/worksheets/equation_editor.php I use this often when I'm preparing notes, and formula sheets.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

As a OneNote convert, I'll tell you why I use my (work provided) tablet instead of pen and paper: I can mix digital and handwritten content and I can write well enough for my handwritten notes to be searchable. Also they are all backed up and I don't lose them. Not to mention I can write in pretty colours easily and I don't have to carry anything else around or worry about pens running out.

I know it's the new cool thing on Slashdot to point out that tech sucks compared to old school solutions, but there are real tangible benefits for some things. Why must every topic on here avoid answering the question and turn into people having a go at the person for wanting a tech solution from a tech website?

Also, regarding your point about photocopying notes, there is significant research that the act of writing or typing something helps to commit it to memory as it involves more senses than simply looking at a pre-written text.

Camera

[mrmeval]

Just make it surreptitious and record relevant things.

LaTeX Macros save time

[questioner]

If you're serious about taking mathematical notes, there really isn't anything to beat LaTeX except for the multi-mentioned writing tablets, where you're essentially recording images (and could do the job just as easily with pen and paper).

If you're worried about your typing of LaTeX taking too long, make macros. It's trivial to create commonly used macros for "long" things like \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} so instead, you type \iII (i - i-cap - i-cap) or some other easily remembered name. If you're still typing out every bit of math you do in LaTeX long-hand, you aren't coming close to using the true power inherent in a markup language.

Want easy ways to represent \mathbb{R} or \mathbb{C}? \rS or \cS defines work great. Integrals? Same idea. Just figure out what the commonly used things are in the class you're taking notes for, and make macros for that.

Wiki + LaTeX?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had surprisingly good results with LaTeX maths in a Mediawiki. In a wiki you can get down everything but the math very quickly, and as others have said it is not too difficult to become speedy with the actual latex math.

I took my undergraduate signals and systems class with this method and never lifted a pencil in lecture. I'm sure the professor was probably a little confused, but in the end I performed well and now have excellent notes to refer to. I also had success with this in a number of other classes, but certainly not ones which require lots of graphs or matrices: the markup for these items is too verbose and I quickly reverted to pencil and paper.

Simple...

[Anonymous Coward]

A small wacom to plug into a USB port, easily carried in your laptop case.

LaTeXiT

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a wonderful mac program called LaTeXiT. It basically lets you type latex directly into a very small editor. The results are compiled and displayed in another window and you can drag the result into your favourite notetaking program.

It's pretty neat.

That said, in a lecture, I still prefer my pen.

Re:What's old is new

[ceoyoyo]

People who like to take copious notes generally also like to study from them. Having the notes searchable is kind of handy. Also, you can take even more copious notes in most classes if you're typing.

Personally, I hate taking notes in any form and never do it, but I know people who basically see classes as an opportunity to act as stenographers.

"Searchability" is key

[GizmoToy]

I've done about 8 years total of various Engineering classes. The first year or two I used strictly pen and paper. The issue there, is your work isn't search able. You may have some idea where what you want is based upon when in the class it may have been covered, but searching is crucial.

On the other hand, as has been mentioned, there are really no perfect solutions for equations and images. I settled into a hybrid approach. Sentences and text got typed into my laptop using a note editor of some type. I used AquaMinds' NoteTaker (Mac only), but One Note seemed to work equally well. Equations and pictures were numbered and handwritten on a separate page, later scanned into PDF and inserted into the notes for the day. It worked reasonably well and was essentially free, given you have a computer and a scanner available. With the quality of built-in laptop cameras improving, that may even be an option as a rudimentary document scanner.

The Pulse pen, while looking pretty nifty, is expensive and requires special paper. Not exactly ideal, either.

Stick with LaTeX but also...

[Anonymous Coward]

...have either a pen and notepad to write down super long equations that you cannot type quickly in class. In your tex file, just type a little note (make a macro that increments some sort of equation counter) that says "formula here" and then just copy it into your tex file once you get home.

photograph, rewrite, type at leisure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you use a device with a built in digital camera to take a photograph of the finished black board or once every few minutes, then rewrite your notes by hand or type them up in lyx afterward at a more deliberate pace, thinking about it more as you go along? I would think you could then listen and pay close attention, feeling a little bit more relaxed and less frazzled, especially if the prof's handwriting is rapid

Don't

[Anonymous Coward]

I am now using latex for a long time (14years). I have been using and testing equation editors. My experience says: after some training and fitting macros in your emacs (or vim or whatever texteditor you use, not to offend the religiuos feelings of other people here), you will be faster in latex, because you dont need a mouse.

On the other hand, you will not be as fast as writing it down by hand. There is no way you keep up with a math prof writing full speed handwriting on the blackboard AND listening to what he says. For some equations yes, but (i studied physics) i am pretty sure that handwriting equations will be faster than typing. If you want to digitize it (undestandably), use a scanner or a graphics tablet to take the notes.

You can't be the only one. Team up!

[mano.m]

I'm in a biochemical engineering class where we need to write text notes as well as a large number of equations with an abundance of symbols, all from quickly vanishing slides. I type the text on my laptop and leave references for the equations. My friend writes only the equations -- by hand. I borrow her notes, fill in the equations in my own time, and send her a copy. Now both of us have neatly typed notes with nothing missing, all achieved using nothing more sophisticated than MS Equation Editor, a pencil, and cooperation. It works, and the learning curve is flat.

Re:You can't be the only one. Team up!

[Shadyman]

Laptop + webcam = pictures?

Maybe if you had a laptop with a rotating webcam on the lid, with high enough resolution, you could transcribe it later.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. For my own mind, an audio recording device is specialized enough.

Paper/Pencil let the subconsciousness and conscious work as a team, while electronic separates the two. This makes fuzzy and logical classes harder, because the mind visualizes the equation working(creative mixed with logical reasoning).

Though if the instructor has a political opinion and mentally wants their students to be parrots, then electronic can be useful. Much like memorizing an opponents chess moves.

Create Your Own Font

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never attempted this, but here is a thought.

Use --> http://www.fontcapture.com to easily create your own Font, though it will take precision and care to make your font seamless (I recommend taking the time to digitally create the font rather than simply writing the symbols in the boxex). I believe keyboard layout will be easily learned and save great time.

My thoughts:
1. keep all non-shifted keys as normal -- this will allow you to take notes about your work and supply all variables
2. make shifted keys to display special characters -- this could be your functions, greek alphabet, superscripts.
-- examples:
    -- x^2 would now translate to x(Hold Shift)2. But the font would already place the 2 in superscript location.
    -- Instead of (Shift + Dash) being _ (Underscore), it would now be the approximate symbol.
    -- Instead of writing integral, you simply type (Shift+i) or make (Shift+n) show integral sign, so you can use (Shift+i) for ^i.
    -- pi could easily be typed as (Shift+p), lambda could be (Shift+l)
    -- Partial d could be shown by typing (Shift+d)
    -- Square Root could be (Shift+Q)
    -- Integrate could be (Shift+T)
    -- (Shift+n) could be sub-n

Sorry I gave so many examples. I know that you understood my concept early, I just got carried away with thinking about the potential of the format.

Also, if anybody considers this of value and would like to work collaboratively to produce a quality and well thought out font for this purpose, shoot me an email --> hof.dig@gmail.com

Thanks for your time and consideration and have a good day.

Jonathan

Stop it!

[dieman]

Easy: Stop trying. Get some paper and a nice pencil. I went a little overkill and got one of those smartpens. Either way, paper > computer in this case. Spend less time thinking about writing/input and more time about the problems at hand.

Analog baby

[Anonymous Coward]

I HATE people who takes notes on their computers. Can't file your notes in the correct order? Try writing the date in the corner of the page. Make a table on contents for "easier searching," although I for one have never found it that hard to find the day we covered a certain topic, even in an eight-month course.

Seriously, the hum of a single laptop behind me in a lecture is like needles on the brain. Don't be that jerk.

Pen and paper

[TeXMaster]

Still the fastest way. Then retype your notes on the computer when you get back home. The quick refresh on retype is also good for your memory.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was in college, we used a P.E.N. It worked reasonably dependably, was inexpensive, didn't run out of batteries and used up very little space on the desk. We used it with P.A.P.E.R, which is a lot like a LCD screen, except that the blurriness that occurs when you press your thumb on where you've written would only happen if you'd written recently. After the pixels had been on the paper a while they would become permanent. You could also play games with it. My favorite was tossing them up so they'd stick in the acoustical tile in the ceiling. There were also fun games with drawing space battles and one can hardly forget the fun you could have firing small paper projectiles through the casing.

In the second semester of my first year, a friend introduced me to the idea of recopying my notes for clarity in your spare time after class. This is something akin to printing out your notes, except that instead of committing them to paper, it helped commit them to brain. This proved useful later when the test came along. I'm not quite sure if college is still about learning, or just mastering unnecessarily complicated tool chains --- it is difficult to say these days which offers the better early life lessons -- but if college is still about learning (and beer, no doubt) then I'd suggest the P.E.N. approach. You can recopy your notes into TEX later if you want.

Can you get an "A" for typesetting these days? When I was in high school it was thought that the glossy bound report was the surest to win the teacher's heart, but I can't say there was a rigorous double blind study.

LaTeX all the way

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides pen & paper LaTeX is the way to go. Initially your speed will be slow, but you will be amazed how fast you can type when in full flow.

Additionally you may use macros keyboard macros to speed up even further!

Paper

[Anonymous Coward]

In my experience, typing equations involves a certain amount of mental effort, as it is something which (at least for me) is not a familiar enough process as compared to writing, in which I have had so much practice, that it is a subconscious process that does not require effort. I think this lack of effort leads to more focus and reflection on the subject matter and aids understanding.

Anonymous Coward

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that recommendations are a personal choice by everyone.
Latex, Lyx, Mathematica etc are all possible
Lectures with notes are great. Lectures without notes are not so much fun.
Interactive engaging lectures where you can ask questions are important - forget tat your question is trivial
as far as someone else is concerned - your measuring stick and theirs are different - but you want to know
an answer - so ask.
If I have to make a choice between note taking and paying attention - I know that some lecturers talk or write
so fast that no note taking speed freak application or pen+paper solution can keep up - so I choose to pay attention.
If the lecture is slow enough - I would use my Mathematica - it is familiar. I would not go out looking to learn anything else - just to take notes.
If its too fast - pay attention and only scribble down the essentials.

Now if you came to a point where you were producing lecture notes for students - there is the real question.
Me personally, I would use Mathematica - why ??? because there is the mathematica player and it has really nice print-outs. It also has
one very nice feature - symbols that look the same can be hovered over and the underlying reference will appear.
Reals, Regions and Reimann might all be represented by a classic 'R' of some description. How do you tell them apart ?
Another reason to use Mathematica for creating lecture notes - you can change some parameters for each lecture
so that you canmake it seem simpler or harder depending upon the type of people in the class.

Lecturers probably use chalk and talk a lot because they get asked questions - and chalk and talk is flexible.
Lecturers who have been around probably get asked the same questions a lot. Simpler examples may be nice
but a more complex example sometimes answers the question of "how to make it work when you have complex equations".
Some students can not easily jump from a simple example to a complex example - they deserve to get some
guidance on how to treat a complex problem like you would a simpler one.

If I have to teach an budding engineer some maths or physics - I like to make sure that they get better than 95% in tests
because they worked their butts off and because when they build a bridge I might drive over, I want it to be built like a
brick, nice and solid and reliable.

One student was going to sort of cheat - using C++ code fragments from his mates - yet he already had his own code with documentation
and he understood all that he had written. He opted for his own work. I liked that about him.

Take Photos of the Blackboard

[beachmike]

Take photos of the blackboard and then transcribe them later. Why didn't any of you nerds think of that?

This former student agrees.

[Rocketship Underpant]

I see there's a naysayer getting modded up for contradicting you. However, in my second or third year of university, I figured the same thing out on my own. Instead of taking copious notes and having my attention divided, I just concentrated on the lecture, asking questions where appropriate, and hopefully did some preparation on the topic beforehand. The result was that I retained mentally a lot more than I could have set down to paper during a short lecture.

As you say, most professors also made their own notes available for students that wanted them.

Ekee: LaTex equation editor

[Anonymous Coward]

You may what to have a look at Ekee.

Re:I submit this brief in support of why we TOTALL

[easyTree]

*sigh*

Maybe you forgot to check 'post anonymously' ? :D

Don't suppose it ever occurred to you...

[spike1]

To use a pen and notebook and then copy it into the computer AFTER the lecture?

Re:Don't suppose it ever occurred to you...

[RafaelGCPP]

This is much better, since you also overcome the 48h forgetting window.
If you don't force yourself to look for a piece of information for a time, it goes to oblivion. Your mind takes care of throwing unused info to the mental garbage bin, and our internal garbage collector runs on an average of 48h.
Writing it down creates some positive feedback that makes that information valuable, and copying it to the computer reinforces it (taking the internal reference counter to 2).

GO TO CLASS

[Anonymous Coward]

1. go to class
2. find a friend with good notes
3. copy those notes as best as you can
4. ?????
5. profit!

6. get good grades! (and stop whining! do ur frickin homework! we'd all love an easy way out!)

I use groff

[Anonymous Coward]

I find the syntax of groff's eqn macro to be easier than LaTeX.

Re:Math Software

[captjc]

In my latter engineering and math classes, I spent a great deal of time in Octave and Maxima (more like a FOSS solution to Matlab and Maple) I found that I started to take notes in a Classic text editor and would write equations in either the code of what ever tool I was using (Octave / Matlab for the engineering courses and Maxima for symbolic equations and Math courses). The beauty of this is that you can easily run them in the program without the need to reformating them and the programs would put them in textbook / pretty-print format for you.

Willing to go open-source with windows tool

[Anonymous Coward]

So I've been writing this COM-server for windows, which you can use to add equations to wherever (say, Word). basically 2 modes of operations:

(a) Click a toolbar button and an editbox opens where you type your expression in a simple infix notation (e.g. @integ(-#inf#,#inf#, x^(@root(y)), y) and it's inserted as a rendered equation
(b) Type the infix notation expression in your word document, select the text and click a toolbar button to convert to a rendered equation.

I haven't touched it in a long while but it's quite in a working shape, easily maintained etc.
Several people have used it and were quite happy with it.

I didn't want to go into the trouble of releasing and maintaining the source because I don't know how useful this would be for people, but if there's enough interest expressed in replies here I'll be more than happy to do so.
I'll monitor this thread over the weekend and post the location...

OpenOffice Math

[kikito]

It works for me.

take notes on low-tech notepad

[kikito]

type them on your laptop when you arrive home.

OpenOffice

[Anonymous Coward]

I've done it myself using the equation editor in openoffice writer (which is way better than the one in MS office). It is very powerful and with a bit of training you can be really fast (some times I'm faster then my friends who are writing by hand).

Re:Scientific Notebook. Top of the line math editi

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. Last semester my math prof hired me to take notes in his Cal 3 class and I used Scientific Notebook. Once I learned all the keyboard shortcuts I was able to keep up in realtime. It is very intuitive and makes a lot of sense.

If you like pen and paper

[zzg]

http://www.livescribe.com/

It uses a bit of hightech and a special patterned paper to give a seamless experience. It's the same anoto technology as the Logitech IO, but now they let you print your own paper.

Digital Pen?

[clickclickdrone]

Unless I've missed it, I can't believe no one has suggested a digital pen such as the e-Pen ones? http://www.practicalpc.co.uk/reviews/hard/peripherals/e-pens-create.htm

prefix/postfix notation?

[wolftone]

Though it may not be quite as easy to read initially, a prefix or postfix notated expression would work well on a (probably wrapped) line, and could therefore be good for simple text editors (which is what I use for taking notes). People experienced with this (LISPers?) would be better suited than I am to say if this would work well.

Re:What's old is new

[ZerdZerd]

The problem of course if bad handwriting. If my handwriting was like Dijkstra's, I would definitely write a lot... But most CS students have bad handwriting... so we hate to write. And we type faster on a computer too. So if we just could type formulas as fast as text...

emacs+latex+macros

[Anonymous Coward]

Emacs, latex, macros and a bit of preparation. Obviously yo DO 10-finger type. .\i_{-\I}^\I e^{-x}dx

is NOT that hard on a US keyboard.

Mathematica

[Anonymous Coward]

I used for years Mathematica. I tried MathCAD, Maple, Matlab, LyX, LaTeX, Microsoft Equation Editor, and the new ecuation editor in MS Word 2007 .... and nothing beats Mathematica in terms of writing speed, and even overall rendering performance.

I hated MathCAD that it was all about clicking on toolbars, promoted the "clicking" game, lol. It sucked.

Other editors sucked for being too terse. For example, LaTeX is too terse, you have to write too much, and there's no nice editor with live preview. LyX wasn't that nice.

I used Mathematica all through high-school, together with The Geometer's Sketchpad for all the dynamic euclidean geometry needs. Mathematica has unparalleled number of keyboard shortcuts, command aliases which allow you to insert any weird character and formula in-place really fast. One of my primary concerns was also rendering and performance: I kept a one-year long document of home works and written notes which amounted tens or hundreds of pages. Mathematica had no issues while others barely worked. Rendering was important because following very hard equations in LaTeX form would suck hard - when it's all rendered live it's all much easier to read and follow, and thus calculate.

I should note that Mathematica was great that it was available for Linux and Windows. Sketchpad only for Windows and Mac, but with WINE it ran fine on Linux as well.

Ultimately, Mathematica proved to be a good tool for math learning as well. I used its facilities for solving various mathematical problems, to check my homeworks, to learn.

Write them on a piece of paper...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Like a normal person and stop being such a pretentious bastard showing off your Macbook Pro.

Waragainstsleep

[Anonymous Coward]

Try the Aiptek MyNote. Awesome piece of kit and you don't even need the computer in order to take your notes.

try MathCAD

[Anonymous Coward]

I studied engineering for quite a while and I used to use MathCAD (on WinXP) for typing all kinds of equations. It's a program for doing algebra (so it also does the whole calculating stuff for you). I was a lot faster with typing than all my friends were handwriting. There ist one tricky part thou: MathCAD has its own syntax, which is quite different from LaTeX's. More here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathcad) and here (http://www.ptc.com/products/mathcad/). If I remember right, my university gave it away with some kind of student's license, so I guess it's easily available for you, too.

Dude, just break down and get a scanner

[jonadab]

For taking notes in higher math classes, you've really got to use a pencil and paper. Nothing else is going to let you write complex math notation fast enough, especially when you start getting into modern algebra and using symbols you've never seen on a computer before. (Most of them are technically available in Unicode, but you don't have time to go hunting for obscure codepoints during class.)

Write on paper with a pencil, and then scan your notes onto the computer after class. File the paper copies in a folder until the next time you update your backups; then you can toss them.

earth

[Anonymous Coward]

Take photos of professor blackboard

I take math notes live in TeX ...

[Anonymous Coward]

...without much problems, thanks to an eight-level keyboard and less-then-you-think macros. Also I can write down most commutative diagram live. Take a look at this page where I explain my method.

Additional pro is that the tex source are almost visually intelligible without compiling.

Re:What's old is new

[tomtomtom]

Anything worth writing is worth writing once. If someone already wrote it in the text book. Then that is good enough for me.

I have to disagree with you there. Personally when I was at university (I read mathematics) I found there was a huge amount of value to be had in the physical act of copying out the equations and text from the blackboard (either by hand or by computer but generally by hand). It forces your brain to slow down, concentrate properly and take in what's being said for one (which is no mean feat); for another, a lot of people (me included) find that the very act of copying out word-for-word helps them commit the concepts to memory.

Uhh Digital Camera?

[AwesomeAvacado]

If the equations are on a blackboard, whiteboard, or projector screen, try using a digital camera... After all, a picture is worth a thousand words.

indians!!!?

[Anonymous Coward]

indians...dont u have indians in ur class? i m sure they write down every word...just use that dude..!

rather..as everyone is saying..get simple and old....use pencil..not even pen..too much dependancy on ink..just use pencil and paper.

Pen and paper?

[Gizmoguy]

Why don't you just write the equations down in a notebook, then put a number into your typed notes? You can LaTeXify the equations (or embed them in whatever way you choose) after class.

Re:What's old is new

[vtTom]

it's called the Book

At many advanced institutes of higher learning, especially at the graduate level, is it not uncommon for there to be NO BOOK. The professor's weekly scrawlings on the blackboard are all you get.

Best tool for the job...

[MikeV]

If you want speed of note-taking and your computer just doesn't hack it - then it's not the tool for the job. Paper and pencil is. Take your notes with that, then transcribe them to the computer at your convenience. Really, have we gone so far that we're beyond actually writing by pencil anymore?

Papershow

[tangelogee]

As another possible alternative, something like Canson's Papershow (http://www.papershow.com) might be worth trying: Doesn't have a Mac version yet, but is a nice way to actually write things, and have them saved to the comuter.

The Answer

[hightech22]

I think I got just the thing. It's called Microsoft Courier..and hopefully it will be available first quarter next year. http://gizmodo.com/5369493/leaked-courier-video-shows-how-well-actually-use-it

Tiddlywiki

[pugugly]

Tiddlymath is Tiddlywiki with a plugin for MathML. Tiddlywiki is frankly my favorite format for redistributable text documents - non-proprietary, editable in Firefox, extensible, with all the advantages of wiki-formatting and cross-referencing.

Pug

Pen and paper...

[mario_grgic]

and then type it up in latex at home. I find typing on a computer in "live" class setting is distracting and takes so much away from active mental participation that aids in learning. You are so much better off taking notes and asking questions while the material is being presented.

If you really care about having a readable, electronic archive of your lecture notes, then type it up in LaTeX later on in the evenings if you still have energy and time left.

Re: How To Enter Equations Quickly In Class?

[Anonymous Coward]

My suggestion will be pencil and paper... mark in ur soft copy notes the equation # and write the actual equation on ur notebook (paper based)... u can do the post processing of getting the eqn into ur soft copy notes...

Re:What's old is new

[Yvanhoe]

While I am still a fervent user of the classical notepad (not the software kind) one has to acknowledge that the abilities to share, copy, backup, search, edit a document are quite good to have.

Pen?

[cjb110]

Pen and Paper? seems best.

But to stay relevant:

A scanner? a handheld one would probly do.

A A6 graphics tablet?

Or the expensive option, one of those digital pens? that stores your scribbles in the memory for transfering later?

How about Maple?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I don't recall exactly which methods for inputting equations it supports, I do remember that Maple (http://www.maplesoft.com) is a great tool for working with mathematics.

Keyboard shortcut systems for LaTeX

[Anonymous Coward]

If you use LaTeX, there are some programs that define keyboard shortcut packages that that vastly cut down the typing required. Using them takes a little bit of getting used to, but once you do, they may be exactly what you're looking for.

If you use Emacs, my favorite is Ultra-TeX:
http://www.math.washington.edu/~palmieri/ultratex.php.
It does a bunch of things that speed up LaTeXing. For example, when you type a dollar sign, it automatically inserts a matching one. If you type '$' again, it cycles through the different equation environments (equation, align, etc.) until you get the one you want. It also dynamically completes commands once you've typed enough to uniquely specify them, lets you type " `a `b `g ..." to produce the Greek letters " \alpha, \beta, \gamma", gives you a opening and closing braces automatically when you type "_" or "^" and puts your cursor in the right place, along with many more little tweaks that save a lot of time.

If you're not an Emacs user but use UNIX or Mac OS X, another good alternative is:
http://www.cds.caltech.edu/~fastex/.

(Or, if you use Mac OS X and don't know how to work Emacs, you might want to try Aquamacs (http://aquamacs.org/), which is an Emacs implementation for Mac OS X that adds a standard Mac OS interface to Emacs and really shortens the learning curve. Then you can use Ultra-TeX without having to learn Emacs at the same time.)

On Mac and Windows I use

[Domini]

Microsoft Graph or Equation Editor works well once you get over the fact that's it's MS.

Or what about Apple's Grapher?

They all make typing in equations easy.

It'll probably get me lynched here...

[OKDog]

A tablet PC and Microsoft OneNote is serving me well in the exact same situation as the poster.

Re:I submit this brief in support of why we TOTALL

[Philip K Dickhead]

Maybe you forgot to read this a'int my words?

I never post anon. :-)

What a luddite thread!

[maillemaker]

>Hi, I'm a physics professor. I say, take your notes on paper. Math is the most computer-incompatible
>writing system ever designed. You'll never ever be able to type equations fast enough to keep
>up with me on the blackboard.

OK, I'm too late to this thread and this probably won't get seen, but I'll jump in here anyway.

Your thread is one of many that I have seen that says, "Just use pen and paper, it's too hard to use computers to write maths!"

What a bunch of Luddites!

Yes, we all get that it is very hard to write math notes on a computer - that was the point of the original poster's question - how to do this better and more efficiently!

For all of my non-science classes, I found using a computer to take notes to be FANTASTIC! Why? I can touch-type. So I can take notes without ever taking my eyes off of the professor. I can also type faster than I can write. So I'm faster at taking notes. My type-written notes are also far more legible than my handwriting. My electronic notes are more space-efficient, and are electronically searchable. I can also share them with anyone anywhere in the world instantly.

The benefits for english-language note taking on a computer are, for me, absolutely indisputable.

If it wasn't so fucking hard to write mathematical and/or scientific and/or engineering symbols on a computer, we could enjoy the same benefits there!

So the answer to the question is NOT, "use a pencil", but rather to find a more efficient way to to it.

Your personal opinion is not helping

[PuckSR]

Well, I now know that most of the posters on slashdot encourage the use of a pen and paper for various reasons.
Let me explain why copying the notes feverishly isn't the best idea.

Yes, a lot of people remember things they have written down.
However, I would argue that actually understanding the equation/notes you are writing down is far more important than memorizing it.
I say this as someone with a degree in mathematics and engineering.

It really depends on the course and the person if you want to transcribe everything or not.
I knew students who would write down the notes, go home and copy them, and then do it again.
I also knew a student who never took any notes. He used to say, "the information is in the book, I am trying to understand the lecture". That student is now a professor of Electrical Engineering at a major university.

I am not going to question why the original poster wants to do everything on a computer, I will just help him.
Mathcad is exceptionally clean and simple for "writing" math. It is the best solution I have seen. Unfortunately, it is designed for active math solutions...so it may not be the best solution. I would give it a try though. I know that for engineering classes it was one of the most helpful programs I ever used.

As far as "higher level math courses", it depends on what you actually mean. My higher level math courses were all theory courses.
If you are having problems with note transcription in number theory, I would recommend learning math proof shorthand rather than trying to use LaTex. Most math shorthand uses Greek symbols, so you can learn the shortcut to them

If your "higher level math courses" are calculus. I think most of the recommendations would be ideal.
However, I might recommend a different course. Typically a professor will tell you what he will be discussing next lecture. It might be easier to setup your equations ahead of time. They are almost always available in the book. You could then record your notes for any equations with the main equation.
It would still require the use of a math symbol software, but you could make sure that the important equations were already very cleanly entered.

To recap:
Number Theory: Learn symbol shorthand
Calculus: Can't get much better than LaTex derivatives
Engineering/Physics: Try Mathcad. It is designed to give you answers, but it allows you to actively play with equations and input numbers to get a feel for the math.

Subject

[Legion303]

I still have two enormous notebooks full of math notes from the classes I took...and I finished school some 13 years ago. Remind me why you need this information on the laptop, again?

Re:What's old is new

[TheTick21]

What annoys you about onenote? The only thing that really pisses me off is that regardless of what amount of proc I tell it to use at which times, it tends to lock up solid for a few seconds to 20 seconds or so every once in a while. Especially when I paste an image into it (I have ocr of images disabled supposedly) or when I use the pen for the first time since a hibernate (did it forget I had a pen?). I can live with both of those. For my mode of thought a tablet with onenote is just too handy to give up. Google needs to come up with a replacement. I'd like to have google notes on my phone and tablet so I can easily send lists and stuff to my phone from the tablet and take notes impromptu then sync them back to my tablet. (I do have onenote mobile, but I don't want to type. I think better when I write and draw images for some reason.)

Low Tech Solution, High Tech Platform.

[kalalau_kane]

During pre-historic times, I would just copy the instructors chalkboard scrawl into my (paper) notebook. It was fast and efficient. Why re-invent the process with purpose built software. Use a touch screen netbook (i.e. Dell Latitude 2100) -- Just open a graphics editor and draw the equation in free hand on the touch screen.

Wacom or Trust

[Mattsson]

Wacom has a few cheap low end tablets that are not marketed as graphics-tools and if you want to go really cheap there's always the tablets made by Trust.
But if you are going to use a tablet to make your notes you will probably find that it is easier, faster and result in higher quality to use a good pen, a blank (no lines or grid) paper and then scan it. That also has the benefit that you don't have to set up your computer during lecture.

Not A Problem For My Students

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a math professor who actually uses the SmartBoard in my room, so my students don't have this problem...

OpenOffice.org Math program

[Anonymous Coward]

Use the OpenOffice.org Math program. That allows you to enter equations using your laptop. It works on Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. You can type in text notes around the equations.

I was going to say ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... use paper and pencil. But everyone beat me to it.

Seriously, you don't have to lug around any equipment, it is cheap, it is fast, it doesn't require a battery, the operating system is your brain ...

Good luck.

Use Save My Whiteboard and your Camera

[frohro]

I am a professor of engineering, and the way I solved this problem for my students was to write software that allows me to process photos of the whiteboard very quickly (a minute or two per day). It automatically puts them on the web for the students. They can browse them at: http://people.wallawalla.edu/~Rob.Frohne/ClassNotes/ and they can print a pdf document of them as well from the web site. Lately I've included an MP3 recording of the lecture as well, so that they can hear it again as necessary. The processing software is called Save My Whiteboard and is available under GPL3 here: http://people.wallawalla.edu/~rob.frohne/SaveMyWhiteboard/index.html The php code for the web pages is available under GPL too if anyone really wants it. Rob

Re:Mac's Typography; in short: transcribe your not

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are using a Mac, I recommend grapher. Type your equation in the input field at the top and then transfer into TextEdit via the clipboard.
Grapher is quite capable. It can pretty much produce arbitrary mathematical equations.

emacs

[will seele]

If you're emacs user, you can combine latex (with defined shortcuts for often used equations) and auto completion mode in emacs, which will complete anything you type.

Go analog

[JymmyZ]

Pen/Pencil and Paper for serious equations will beat any I/O interface anyday. Even tablet recognition pales in comparison, though direct tablet drawing might come a close second. I do this for all the notes I need to take, and as an added benefit, I'm forced to review my notes if I want to enter them onto my computer when I have more time. Plus, you can absorb the lessons better if you're not focused on the details of entering long equations into your computer.

My approach

[Retribution]

I simply cannot keep up when I write notes by hand -- but I type very quickly. I too have had trouble with equations, and my solution works for me, but isn't the best. Here's my approach, fwiw.

Type notes on my Eee, it has a 7-8 hr (actual) battery, and a relatively quiet keyboard, so as not to be a distraction. I can watch the instructor and the board while typing, unlike handwriting. Using emacs under windows at the moment (better battery life pending some driver updates for linux)

I keep a notepad for any graphs, and I just number any figures I draw. I switch between keyboard and pen as rarely as possible.

Equations are important -- I'm a math major now! For some classes, equations will come as fast as the instructor can scrawl them on the board. I write in an abbreviated shorthand, basically supremely-lazy latex. I neglect anything that could be implicit, and write, for example, omg and Omg instead of \omega and \Omega. I only started a little while back, and I still adjust my abbreviations as I go. That means it's not really parsable yet, but I am doing a good job of figuring out the minimum number of key presses to say what I need to say. After writing it for a while, at least it's easy to read (much like latex, you'll start to see it without needing to render it before long).

I like the mention of cameras. I've started doing that for meetings with my advisor, just using my iPhone to capture the whiteboard after we've gone back and forth on a few ideas.

I've been through N (where N is large) years of school, but only in this last year have I switched to typing. I have a great deal of trouble with handwritten anything (random word and letter transpositions everywhere, HORRIBLE if you're trying to write a mathematical theorem). Switching to typed notes has been one of the best decisions I ever made wrt taking classes.

My suggestion:

[fyngyrz]

Get an iPod Touch (or an iPhone, if you need a phone); install any one of the drawing programs on it from a whiteboard to AutoCAD's awesome layer-based drawing system, and use that.

The touchscreen interface allows unrestricted freedom of drawing and 1:1 relationship between your drawing motion and the drawing that you can't get with a tablet; the work-spaces of some of the software are quite large (and layers are useful here); and the software is inexpensive. The icing on the cake is that there are tons of other useful apps as well.

The downside, of course, is the cost of the iPod. But other than that, it's the perfect solution. If you already have one, then it's a slam-dunk: a few bucks (like, one or two... or maybe $20 for the autoCAD one if I recall, not sure), and you're golden.

Kids these days

[Cloud K]

In my day we used a pencil and paper. Always use the correct tool for the job - for class notes a computer isn't one of them.

Except when I was feeling adventurous and would use the Psion Series 5 and scrawl equations and diagrams on the screen, type things in with that nice keyboard and print out to the HP printer via IRDA. One copy to hand in, one for future reference and one donated to the cause of plagiarism. But invariably I was glad to return to pencil and paper.

Failing that another vote for LyX as a way of doing LaTeX without spending ages typing in all that markup nonsense and missing half your notes (and most of your attention)

Word 2007 Equation Editor works great for me!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in a similar situation as you. I am taking graduate-level statistics courses and much prefer digital notes. I work on a MacBook Pro (I also use a virtual machine for my windows needs). First, I'll admit that I haven't used Lyx's equation editor. I tried OpenOffice's and was thoroughly unimpressed, but maybe I didn't give it enough time. So this response doesn't necessarily discount those possibilities, but simply extols Word 2007's "new" equation editor as a very productive tool for taking realtime notes in a symbols-intensive class.

The "new" equation editor in Word 2007 lets you edit equations right in the document (it's no longer a plug-in). To start an equation I simply hit alt-enter. Once in the equation editor, I just type equations almost as if they were LaTeX. It accepts most of LaTeX's math symbols, e.g. \sum \alpha \int \infty \prod. I've almost never come across a symbol I needed but Word didn't have (most recent one that I was surprised Word had: \biguplus), and you can even easily add your own for those that are missing.

There are some differences from LaTeX that you will have to learn, mostly for the better! For instance, you never have to do \left( or left\{ just plain ole' parenthesis, braces, brackets, etc and by default they autoscale (you can force it to not). And for fractions no need for \frac{num}{denom} just (num)/(denom). For these reasons and others, Word's equation editor generally requires much less typing than LaTeX's and you seldom have to use the mouse! And since it is WYSIWYG, when you make a mistake in your typing, you just click on (or navigate with the keyboard to) the actual mistake--no sorting through compiler output and very verbose markup to figure out where things went wrong. The instantaneous feedback is a huge productivity boost. You can even edit the markup for the equation directly (you'll probably never have to do this, and if you do, it is harder than editing LaTeX since every "command" gets converted to single unicode characters; but again, you'll never have to do this). Of course, if you don't know a command, you can easily find it in the GUI menu--but this will put you behind in your note taking. The Lyx or OpenOffice solutions may offer similar benefits.

Bottom line: I'm able to take notes in realtime in very math intense statistics course that utilize a bunch of strange symbols. Something I'd never be able to do using, say, Kile as a LaTeX editor.

As for battery life etc., I must admit that I use remote desktop to connect to my windows desktop so battery life is hardly affected. I rarely experience latency problems, either. I'm thinking of trying to run Office 2010 in VMWare Fusion to see how the battery holds up, but I suspect it will cut my battery life almost in half, so I imagine I'll stick to the remote desktop solution.

Mathcad

[jollygreengiantlikes]

I'm still running an old G3 PowerBook - so I can run Mathcad v6 in Classic mode - I was a physics major and once learned, that software had to be the quickest and easiest bar none. Mathcad has not released a Mac version since about 1998, so perhaps VMWare or another emulator to use a more current version under Windows?

That said, I've generally found the paper/pencil option much better. I did try the Mathcad route for awhile, but in most math/physics/science classes, there's just too much jumping around. E.g. Oh - and this connects back to that... etc. It's just really hard to circle something and draw an arrow back to a previous note on the page with software.

JDB

Should I publish my own equation editor?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've written a simple equation editor which behaves as a COM server, i.e. it can be used in place of MS equation writer in Word or any other COM client.
It's based on a simple expression syntax (e.g., @sum(i=0, #inf#, 1/i)) to specify expressions.
There's also a word addon that will let you select text in word and convert it to an equation.
A couple of friends used it for a while and it worked for them; I never published it because I wasn't sure anyone would care.
However, reply to me if you think I should publish it and if I see enough interest -- I'll go ahead (probably even open source it)

Re:What's old is new

[fm6]

I have the same lockup problem, only much too often. And it happens most often when I'm converting ink to text, which makes that feature almost useless.

There are too many bad features to list. The one that really gets my goat is that a lot of the formatting feature, such as tables and bullet lists, are just not usable if you don't have a keyboard!

Reverse Polish Notation

[MightyYar]

Any engineer worth his (or her) salt knows that RPN is the way to numerically solve an equation. The algebraic entry using parentheses is for suckers. So that got me thinking... why not use RPN for equation entry? As usual, I'm late to the game. There is a Mac app here. Sorry, the site is Japanese...

There is a web app here. Seems to work well. You can make pretty big equations quickly, and the result is in tex.

The revision was oversighted due to PI

[tepples]

I love what I think are called 'contranyms'...words who are their own antonym. Among then are [...] oversight (to watch over, or to not notice at all)

It brings a new meaning to oversight on Wikipedia, no?

Kessel Run

[tepples]

but have you ever made a Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs ! ?

As I understand it, cutting distance from the Kessel Run refers to a shortcut that only select craft can actually make use of. So watch your pedantry lest someone out-pedant you.

You need to Update!

[Roger W Moore]

I agree that a year ago that was certainly the case but you need to update your desktop software. You can delete pages now. However the software is still not as polished as I would like but it does have the minimal basic functionality now.

Good Problem Solving Notes are More Important!

[SpiritOfAsimov]

Take a moment to re-think this desire to type-set class notes... Why worry so much about electronic class note-taking in a science, engineering, or mathematics course? Why not spend the best of your energies solving difficult problems and preparing for the exams? Unlike arts electives, probelm solving is the real meat of these courses. You're rarely asked to reproduce neatly type-set class notes on an exam! But just think of how much more capable (on an exam or a real-life engineering analysis situation on-the-job) you will be if you spend more time solving extra problems. Try this: just take good hand-written notes (that can be digitally scanned later for portability or topic-specifc filing) or read and & annotate PDF's provided by the more enlightened professors. Then when problem-solving make detailed notes of your solutions using electronic entry like LyX or MathCAD. MathCAD or similiar software tools add value to the process by eliminating the requirement of endlessly entering numbers into a calculator during your problem analysis work (you can always just practice the use of a calculator just before a test for speed-finger-muscle-memory - but why waste the whole semester on that tedium?). Having very good "problem-solving notes" is like an "applied summary" of nearly everything important you need to know to do well on a science, engineering, or mathematics exam. It's also a good reference for down the road when you revisit the material for further applications. Spend 20% of your time reading your class notes as an introduction to the material (or review before a test), but spend 150% of your time banging out well-documented and neatly organized problem solutions. Then see how much time you have left over at the end of your course to type-set your class-notes! Probably none if you have a full course load; and you'll be happy that you instead are well-prepared for your final exams :o) Cheers and Enjoy your Learning Adventure!

Skip Lectures

[Cederic]

Amazed nobody's suggested the obvious thing to do: Skip the lecture, hit the bar, play pool, flirt with the attractive students of your preferred sex and get a copy of the lecture notes from someone else.

University is where you get an education, so skip the lectures and get one.

Now there's your problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The equations go in your head, not in your computer.

Handwriting recognition

[Anonymous Coward]

Get handwriting recognition software/hardware. Then write the equation in.

Get a pogo sketch

[Anonymous Coward]

For $14.95 you can get a stylus that will allow you to draw on your macbook trackpad thus turning it into a small tablet (see http://www.tenonedesign.com/sketch.php). Combined with the right software this should work well for entering equations, sketches, etc. It's cheap and requires just a pen that you can shove into your pencil case.

There's an app for that!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, use an iPhone.... "There's an app for that!" then sync it with your MBP via bluetooth and paste. Wala!

Don't be overtechnical.

[Anonymous Coward]

I use paper. It works great.

If you need, you can scan it later. Technology is wonderful, but it should help you, not get in your way. Use it correctly.

1980 is calling

[incubbus13]

I am baffled by the number of people saying, "Just use pen and paper that's the best way for me." How is that an answer to the question? "We don't need none of that there change stuff. If dinosaurs were good enough for Jesus to ride to pre-school then they're good enough for those people younger than me."

It sounds to me like a simple keyboard map would solve a lot of your problems. Map your F-keys (function) to various...functions. I can think of a couple of ways to do it off the top of my head, but a customized software solution shouldn't be too incredibly hard either. Just requires a text entry field, some math-specific formatting of the text, and the ability to hold down shift or control or iKey or something to define when you're typing 'special' pre/custom-defined characters.

K.

Lazy-ass.

[Anonymous Coward]

Use a fucking pencil. Name one advantage that note-taking on a computer has over pencil and paper for the average (read: you) student.

Touchbook?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've wanted to take digital notes for myself (mostly math) for a long time, but have had a hard time finding something relatively cheap and portable. I'm optimistic that the Touchbook (http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/) will fulfill my needs. I've preordered, and expect mine any day now.

EMACS, AucTeX, and latex-math-mode, \newcommand

[linuxtuba]

1) Learn Emacs
2) Learn the AucTeX shortcuts
3) AucTeX has a mode called latex-math-mode. This gives you quick shortcuts for entering the Greek letters and some common set notation
4) Create your own Emacs macros
5) Create your own LaTeX commands

For example:
\newcommand\probspace{(\Omega, \mathcal{F}, \mathbb{P})}
will be helpful if you are taking notes in probability.

I have used this combination of tools and I can take notes in real-time in most math classes.

Try OpenOffice Math

[sgrizzard]

I went through an Econ MA program with the same problem, and even bought a tablet pc and tried to use OneNote to do it. In the end, I found the fastest thing was OpenOffice's formula entry system, Math. The commands are very intuitive, ie. x over y for x/y, and once I learned them, I could type faster than I wrote anyway. It does have the disadvantage of not holding alot of equations at once (at least 2.0 did), and integrating your Write documents is a pain, but it was still the best solution for me. I would usually switch between Write and Math, and just make a note in writer to insert the equation here... or, if it was something short, type the math commands right into writer and then convert it later. The big plus is that, once it is in, it is in a computer-readable form, so there is no "going back" later.

Quick eqs and everything else

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a friend at work that uses a tablet and Microsoft OneNote, as sort of virtual ink on canvas. It's secret is that you can scribble anything you wish with the stylus, then fill in with keypad later for the parts it doesn't understand (from MS Word). I think the notepad costs him about US$800 or so, and he uploads to the server via bluetooth so we can all see the notes (meetings, scrums, etc.). He loves it, and it sounds like what you need with essentially NO learning curve. Then again, nothing is free...

It just depends which way round you put your axes

[Anonymous Coward]

The common usage assumes effort on the y-axis and progress on the x-axis, so a steep learning curve is one in which a lot of effort is required to make little progress. This is conveniently intuitive to the notion of a hill to climb.

using the wrong computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

try: HP 48

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand slashdot loves to use fancy technology to solve simple problems, but...

Their screwy side-effect happy CSS is just such an example.
     

Specifying a Precise Premable

[spaceturtle]

I had some trouble with this, so I wrote a script called lyxpp.py to allow me to specify a precise preamble. See: http://www.lyx.org/trac/ticket/5031

Get a digital pen

[daHIFI]

Get a digital pen. You'll be able to write the equations on paper and get the muscle memory boost from actually writing them down, and be able to sync the contents to a computer. Other pros include the fact that you won't even need to have the computer on as the pen has it's own memory. The con is that you have to buy special patterned notebooks and the pen is a bit large.

Logitech has a $150 one that is pretty good: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-io-Personal-Digital-Pen/dp/B00006JP23

Design Science's MathType

[Sabre Runner]

Yeah, I like to hate Microsoft just like everyone else but I'm still a Windows user (Mostly for the games compatibility). And I have still not seen a better solution for writing down lecture notes than the Word/MathType combination. Yes, they are both proprietary software (Which I get free through the university. :) ) but I've been using them for the past two years and I'm faster than the lecturer. Yes, I write as fast as the lecturer speaks and faster than he/she can write themselves.
MathType is quite comprehensive, I don't even use half of what it offers myself, and the whole catch is shortcut keys configuration. You can set up combinations for 'macro' equations (Like Limits) and with two presses of a button call down a set that will take other students a few seconds to put down.
The only problem I found with it so far is a symbol or two it doesn't have (Like the under-tilde not-equal sign) and you have to build yourself and the fact that when you write integrals, the lecturer does the limits first but you have to add them last.

For sketches, graphs and diagrams there is no comfortable solution I found. I either draw them in Word shapes with a pen-mouse, plot the graphs with Mathematica (Best analytical math tool I found) and copy over or just photograph the board and paste the image into my document.

Trust me, I've been doing it for two years. :)

Re:What's old is new

[xouumalperxe]

Note taking, for me, was to summarize what the teacher said, in MY words so that I could understand it later.

Well, in a calculus class you will, at some point want to write something like "We know that f(x) = e^x is a monotonically increasing function". Since you're taking notes, "monotonically increasing" will probably be rendered "mon. inc." in notes, but f(x) = e^x can't be compressed further.

Re:What's old is new

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I think linux is garbage, and I would be *embarrassed* if someone even knew I was using it.

Mathcad

[Anonymous Coward]

Mathcad has a very simple pallet based equation creation system. You could probably find an old copy very cheap.

Org-Mode with CD-LATEX

[Anonymous Coward]

Org-Mode for Emacs has pretty good LaTeX support. For one, it identifies equations automatically, so you can dispense with the $ signs. It also converts the formula to an image in the buffer, so you can see the actual math instead of markup. With CD-LATEX, it even offers tab completion of LaTeX templates.

Combined with Org-mode's export capabilities and hierarchial ordering, it's a pretty good tool to take notes with. I've handled a couple of physics classes with it, although I eventually reverted to pen and paper because I kept getting distracted.