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New Hampshire Cops Use Taser On Woman Buying Too Many iPhones
turbosaab writes "A woman who said she was asked to leave New Hampshire's Pheasant Lane Mall because she wanted to buy too many iPhones was pinned down by Nashua police and zapped by a Taser (video) as she shrieked in front of crowds of shoppers Tuesday. The Chinese woman from Newton, Mass blamed a language barrier for the confrontation outside the Apple Store in the Pheasant Lane Mall Tuesday afternoon. Police say Li knew exactly what they were telling her and simply refused to comply. Police said Li had $16,000 in cash in her purse at the time of her arrest and may have been purchasing the phones for unauthorized export resale."
You mean selling her own property for a profit? God forbid.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Police are now so badly trained and so out of shape they can't even handle a 44 year-old, 80 pound Chinese woman, they have to resort to high tech weaponry.
No sig today...
These sorts of events are similar to what I would have expected in countries like China, not the United States. LEOs do not need to taser most people, especially a female who appears much less powerful than the officers holding her down in the video. The tool is used as a second-to-last resort, not as as way to make an arrest easier on the officers.
Sheesh.
It's about time we punished people for making bad decisions.
How are they supposed to make obscene profits if people 'illegally export' things?
There's an app for that.
... you mean she had enough to buy a few iPhones ?
Oh my god, arrest her, she has money, she must be doing something illegal !
But the lady clearly knew what was going on:
Jay said her mother bought two iPhones last Friday, and was told that was the limit. When she took video of others she claimed were buying more, the store manager asked her to leave.
And she was asked to leave and refused:
"The management of the store asked us to have her removed. The officer approached her, told her she wasn't welcome in the store, and she refused to leave," Nashua Police Capt. Bruce Hansen said.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
You can't use your money for that, sorry. I don't care what she does with those phones, she should buy as many as she has money for and that should be the end of it. If she gets caught selling them then she has broken a law, until then nothing.
There are times to use painful, potentially fatal, means of coercion. This isn't one of them.
Unfortunately, we're going to get a lot of people posting here claiming that simply because the police demanded she do something, and she didn't, that they were justified. The simple truth is, no, they weren't. You don't get to do anything you like to someone simply because you have a badge and they didn't do what you told them to.
We do not live in a police state.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Jay said her mother bought two iPhones last Friday, and was told that was the limit.
Has Samsung caused acute shortages of component supplies leading to this rationing of iThings?
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
She wasn't Tazed for buying too many iphones, she was tazed for failure to comply with authorities... Whoever made the title is a simpleton. What an Idiot..
;-)
I had to say it.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
It seems the concept that violence is a last resort has disappeared from policing.. Increasingly, even quiet, cooperative people are pinned down, handcuffed and manhandled as a matter of course. Violence has become one of the "perks" of policework, and the evil cycle of abuse and intimidation means fewer and fewer people object. Can anyone see any reason whatsoever for the violent treatment of this woman, who at worst is guilty of conspiracy to illegally export some telephones?
Something needs to change in police training. Too often cops resort to BBQing people with 50,000 volts at the least sign of resistance, and, in some instances, no resistance at all. Yet, too often when you see a mall shooting or hostage situation, you don't see the police putting their lives on the line to save people. They often seem far too concerned with their own safety than the public's, and all these taser incidents seem like a part of that mentality. That's just my observation. I'm sure there are also plenty of good cops out there too, but the bad ones seem to make the headlines far too often.
Is there a way to prevent the effectiveness of a taser? i really don't know.
She wasn't tased for trying to buy too many iPhones. She was tased for resisting arrest after refusing to leave private property. I'm pretty sure "get out!" with a finger pointed to the door is near universal language. When it's suggested by men in uniforms carrying badges and guns, you'd have to be a full-on nitwit to miss the picture.
You can claim it was the result of "failure to communicate", but you can't expect officers in Nashua, NH to speak Mandarin. If you can't figure out that resisting arrest isn't a good idea, that's on you. Tasing her likely prevented further serious injury of the woman and/or the officers.
They were probably just extra pi$$ed because they were called from a nice lunch at Dunkin Donuts or so...
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Cash transactions at banks over $10,000 are subject to special reporting requirements, thanks largely to the War on Drugs. It wouldn't surprise me if trying to make any kind of cash transaction for $16K draws unwanted attention in the current police state environment.
Obviously, she was taking the money she earned selling drugs, and laundering it by buying iPhones for cash, then reselling them. Makes perfect sense to a cop, who has been trained to assume that EVERYBODY is a criminal....
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
1. Officer was on a paid police detail, so I'd assume that there is enough liability on Apple that a lawsuit and associated settlement is forthcoming.
2. Without excusing the tasering whatsoever, the woman clearly knows enough English to get from Newton, MA to Nashua, NH. Since she was alone at the time, I'm guessing that she has a driving license. I wasn't aware that MA allowed you to take the exam in Chinese.
Just wait until some police department gets sued for tasing someone with a heart condition. Tasers should be considered semi-lethal force and only be used in situations that a gun would be used in. In other words, cops are being lazy when they tase people.
Here's a crazy idea: instead of starting to shout "private property" and having the hired guns tackle a woman and break out their weapons - just ignore her. Don't take her money, don't ring up her sale. She'll either give up and go away or try to steal the phones and then it's cut-and-dry. Plus no news stories with bad publicity during the Christmas shopping season.This would also save two Nashua cops from the public humiliation of not being able to handcuff a middle-aged asian woman (I saw the video - there's no fear that she's a kung-fu master).
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
"Live Free or Die!" -State motto of New Hampshire. ....unless you're buying too many iPhones.
Didn't some state have that as their motto?
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Get a bit better perspective on this by watching the tazing videos on YouTube.
Basically, it seems, if you repeatedly refuse to follow a simple police command, like "get out of the vehicle" or "lay down on the ground", after 10 or 20 repetitions, the cops have the option of tazing you. Apparently this is SOP. The old-school way was to chicken choke or baton-choke you. You decide which is better.
That's what they should have done here.
That's dumb, the iPhone is MADE in China, it's also SOLD in China. There's no such export restriction and no such law (just think how dumb what you said is, in effect a product made in China can't be inside China... the mind boggles).
The rule is an Apple arbitrary sale limit rule. The article mentions Apple uses police officers to enforce it because they've had trouble in the past with people buying too many for unauthorized export. As if they get to tazer customers based on some EULA or something!
ALL SHE WANTED TO DO WAS BUY A LOT OF IPHONES AT FULL PRICE! (BTW they're the same price in China).
Right now I'm going to go to an Apple store and diss the products in front of other customers, complain they're overpriced, underpowered, not as good as the Android ones, maybe bring my Android quad core tablet and do visual compares. Until they ask me to leave. Then I'm not going to leave, I'm going to kick up one hell of a stink. Maybe do a bit of shouting about how they tazered a woman in an Apple store. f*** Apple. Really f*** em, corporate scum.
In any situation if the opponent is unarmed (or only armed with too many smart phones and a credit card), the police should apply talking first. If the person freaks out, there are plenty of options to constrain her without using a taser. I've seen those options on demonstrations in Germany, it works without any pepper spray or taser or gun or sticks of some sort. However, in a totally controlled situation like that, it would most likely have sufficed to just talk. If communication had not worked out, a translater could have been organized.
Looks like, in the USA they first shot and then ask. Just like the guy with a knife on times square followed by a dozen of policemen. The only solution to that situation was to shot him a couple of times. If shooting would have been the last option, a shoot in the knee or foot would have sufficed. Or they could have used a taser. But what shall I expect when they use a taser on a customer. Really! Get relaxed.
Any facts reported in the original account of the event have been conveniently stripped from the article and summary to make this submission Slashdot-appropriate. That is to say, to avoid potential injury to the precious egos of Slashdot-reading fanboys, articles should contain none of the following:
1. Sound justification for any Apple-sanctioned activities or strategies
2. Market research or information which would suggest any kind of commercial success of Apple products in the marketplace despite repeated claims that "Apple doesn't know what consumers want"
3. Evidence of wrongdoing of anyone other than Apple or its affiliates
Clearly, the submitter was just doing their part to keep Slashdot safe-to-read for Apple haters and fandroids. We applaud your efforts, good sir!
I was there when that happened. Man, the two of them were PISSED when they were leaving. Several people were causing drama saying there might be someone with a firearm. It was dumb. It really wasn't anything that spectacular. 5m later everything was back to normal. Never crossed my mind this would make this big of a headline. Huh, small world.
The policy continues, "The weapon is a level of force normally required to overcome passive, defensive, or offensive resistance that is intended as an act of overt aggression toward the officer where an individual refuses to comply with verbal instructions."
How exactly can "passive resistance" be an act of overt aggression? So basically, do whatever the cops say, or they will tase you. If you do not follow their orders, you are being "overtly aggressive" , the same as if you were throwing punches at them. Tasers being being overused in this country.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
So it seems from the article when she was told by the store manager on *Friday* to leave she understood that. Yet when she is asked by the manager on *Monday* to leave the store all of a sudden she doesn't understand english ? Pah-leese.
I hate this culture of victim-hood where instead of owing up to doing something wrong the wrong-doer becomes the focus of grievence theater and every *else* is to blame.
And yeah, unless there is a Lexus parked outside or a mortgage banker waiting for a down payment (assuming it was legal to search her purse and ask) I would be very curious to know what she was doing with 16k in her purse on a plain old monday morning when she had bought phones *online*
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
I absolutely abhor it when somebody, *ANYBODY* can somehow claim to know what another person is thinking when they have absolutely no real evidence to back up their claim beyond personal supposition.
Yeah, it's plausible that the language barrier was just a ploy, but I didn't see any obvious indication that such an issue was actually not really plausible. Just because she understood one sentence somehow means she's fluent enough in english to understand anything said to her once, without explanation?
The followup line also got me a bit hot under the collar:
No... what happened is that the officer didn't think for a second.
Tasers should not *EVER* be used by the police as a means of forcing compliance unless the police officer has some real cause to assume that the situation is about to escalate to physical violence. What indication did the officer have that she was going to assault anyone? Hmmm?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Oh oh ya... I guess tasing would be better than accessing a google site from an Apple store. Good grief.
For the record: Yes, failing to follow the orders of police in the US is a good way to come in close contact with a taser or baton, fact of life. Whether or not Ms. Li knew enough English to know what her situation was will without a doubt become clear.
As for the Apple Store, here's the deal: if you, the customer, makes it clear that you're buying electronics to export, the retailer is potentially on the hook with the Federal Government for aiding unlicensed exports of technology. Yes, I'm aware that much of the technology in question was manufactured overseas. The fact remains that this isn't the first, and won't be the last time someone innocently mentions export, and is shown the door.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Apple mis-treating Chinese people isn't news.
Why isn't anyone outraged about this corporation's behavior?
They are the 1984 Big Brother they warned you about in their ads.
I'm trying to imagine how these cops' wives are able to sleep with them after an event like this.
And you think the local police patrolling the mall are up on all that?
It may come as a surprise to some, but the introduction of tasers in US police inventories has offered officers a humane alternative to previous practice, which often involved a baton chokehold, or a firearm. It may or may not be double-plus-bad that US officers aren't as sweet as they are in Canada or the UK, preferring compliance with orders now, discussion later, but it is what it is, and it may be a bit naive to be unaware of that.
Luke, help me take this mask off
= Slashdot Field Day
It was as if a million freetards suddenly had nerdgasms, and were frothing at the mouth. I fear something overdramatic and theatrical has happened.
Still doesn't justify two grown police officers assaulting a 90 pound Asian woman. Look at it a million different ways still comes back to that for me, she could be trying to physically steal those iPhones and provided she is unarmed she's a 90 pound Asian woman, you pick her up with one arm and put her in the back of a police car.
"Failure to comply" is no reason to use a taser. A taser should only be used when an immediate threat requiring non-lethal force is present. Using it as a cattle prod on the sheeple is abusive and places the lives of the victims of this abuse at risk. Certain drugs and medical conditions can make people susceptible to seizures or heart failure when exposed to so much current.
The gross misuse of tasers needs to stop.
Of course the cops feared for their lives. You'd have to be insane to buy that many iphones. Deadly force would be warranted.
Wuddooeyeno? IITYWYBMAD? Like nuts? eclecticallyincorrect.com
We didn't see what Ms. Li was up to prior to being dropped to the floor. She may or may not have proved a handful, and if she wasn't following directions to get out of the store, it was going to end badly however you sliced it: the cops weren't going to just leave, and they aren't encouraged to grapple - handguns can get loose. So, prior to tasers, they'd have used any of a number of take-downs involving batons.... eg. she'd have gotten clubbed.
Having said that, I realize that many officers have a tendency to quickly get physical just because josephine public fails the attitude test.
Luke, help me take this mask off
TO assult someone if you think they might be committing a crime?
Glad to see the police are allowed to just assult people at random out of spite. Because if two big cops cant handle a little lady without drastic escalation, they need to be fired right away.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
LOL yeah, the police responded quickly because their "unoffical" HQ was the food court.
I see a lot of people commenting how two cops should be able to handle an 80-lb woman... when was the last time you tried to apprehend anyone who wants to get away? Seriously. Ever watch the show COPS and see one crazy crackhead squirm and fight with like 6 cops? It's not that these cops can't beat this lady in arm wrestling contest, it's just that it's REALLY hard to get someone under control who doesn't want to be.
Is 'unauthorized export resale' really a thing in the US?
Does that seriously mean that people can't sell, and by extension never own, physical objects they buy?
"Live Free or Die!" -State motto of New Hampshire. ....unless you're buying too many iPhones.
"Live Free and Die!" sounds more like it now.
I am not a crackpot.
If our dear leader would just invite them both to the White House to have a beer and talk, maybe this whole thing will blow over. Although, if she's not a drinker, it might have to be sodas.
I recommend Jolt.
Please tell me this is a Poe.
violence is only moral when used to prevent violence.
The police used violence without that threat and are in the wrong.
You forget that they can order you to do something illegal and then tase you either way. Either for not following orders or doing the illegal thing. And it probably won't sound illegal before the prosecutor turns up and explains you're getting infinity years in jail either.
otherwise why are the police afraid of a woman with cell phones ?
And make no mistake, they were _afraid_. Either that or they're sadistic bastards who enjoy tasering people, which is entirely possible.
I for one do not welcome our para-military police overlords.
Absolute statements are never true
The police tastered this person because she did something perfectly legal, which is to say, buy iPhones. She may or may not have had an intent to later export them, which would be illegal-- but this is no excuse for their actions.
Having intent to export is illegal. Having a plausible reason to believe that someone is disturbing the peace (which she did) or having a plausible reason to believe she intended to export (which she admitted) are both illegal and subjects you to arrest. Furthermore not calling the police when you have a suspicion that someone is purchasing a regulated item for export makes you an accomplice in the crime itself should it be committed. The Apple personnel did exactly what the law requires them to. The police did exactly as the law requires them to.
As far as resisting arrest- I am a man, if I made it out without broken bones and several felonies tacked on I would be grateful.
FYI. New Hampshire has no sales tax, so many New-Englanders go to Portsmouth for their major purchases. On $16,000, that could be ~$1000, ... more than worth it, but not if you are going to be tazed.
If you watch every season of Cops within a reasonably short period of time (say over a month or two) you can clearly see the shift in police procedures and attitudes spreading across the country. (It started before Tasers by the way.)
The earliest seasons have old-fashioned policing, where cops talk to irate people and calm them down, as long as the person doesn't get violent. If the suspects put their hands up, the cops just handcuff them standing up, no degrading "get on the ground" treatment, no crushing the suspect's neck with their knees, no body-slamming people to the ground, then while resting on top of them screaming "stop resisting!"
By the mid-90s seasons you see this wave of assaults and violence spread across the police forces. People put their hands up, the cops have no reason to suspect any violence, but they body-slam them to the ground anyway. Many times you see 5-9 cops on top of one person, often standing on the person's arms while multiple people scream "put your hands behind your back!" (Which they physically cannot do) and "stop resisting!" In other cases they demand people get down on the ground, just to humiliate them.
The Taser is just another in a line of police battery tactics, designed to humiliate, degrade, and torture suspects, but without leaving any permanent marks that you can sue over.
It bears repeating: don't talk to these thugs for any reason. Never answer their questions and comply with all orders, no matter how degrading. Never consent to a search of your person or car if asked. If they search anyway, say nothing and talk to your lawyer. Don't bring up video evidence or violations or they'll destroy evidence to cover their tracks, do not rely on honesty - police will always cover for themselves, no matter how heinous the crime, and the police union will get them reinstated with back pay after the public stops caring about the story. You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
We live in a police state, same as China or Soviet Russia. Deal with it.
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
But not illegal.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
So... let me get this straight.
Some protester is sitting on the ground, blocking traffic, and police demand him to get up and leave. Protester refuses, and simply sits there, doing nothing. Police decide to taze him, hoping it'll get him to stand up and leave.
Mmm... something doesn't seem right there. I thought tazing was meant to make people passive actually.
...they were filming a movie.
Coming in 2013, Judge Dredd: Mall Cop.
...although the Nashua cops have a history of being shady...
That's all that needed to be said.....
I've never heard of this happening to someone buying an Android phone.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
To anyone that still believes all that "Protect and Serve" shit, tasers are primarily and overwhelmingly used by LEOs as punishment. They are not used to protect anyone. If you do not do exactly as the officer says, no matter how unfair it may seem, you will be tasered. It is immediate punishment administered without judicial review. Plus, it relieves a lot of frustration for the cop.
So let's all stop pretending now that use of a taser is anything legal or moral, it's a circumvention of judicial review, denial of individual rights and a travesty of justice. Tasers should be outlawed or their use outside of life threatening situations should be cause for immediate dismissal of the offending officer. Any other course of action is merely inviting a Judge Dredd type of future.
"The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
I wasn't at the mall, I'm not claiming to be an expert on Police policy, and I have no connections to LE. However what this comes down to is that this woman was tresspassing on a premise she was asked to leave on more than one occasion. We take property rights very seriously here, this was a long drawn out incedent with someone from Massholechusetts who thought that they didn't have to follow the rules. She didn't get asked to leave for the first time then tased 30 seconds later. There is no freedom to not listen to cops, we're a reasonable state and you're ordered to leave you should listen. Language barrier is being falsely injected into this story, it's not like it's hard to pantomime telling someone to GFTO.
She had a chance to listen with the request to leave, and chose not too. It's her personal responsibilty to comply with the law, if this were on someones private property they would have had the right to brandish(but not fire) a gun. We don't baby people up here like a lot of the other states, she screwed up and payed the price. Live Free or Die doesn't mean you have the freedom to ignore the law.
New Hampshire is a unique place compared to most other states especially in this part of the country. While we may be ranked #1 in beer consumption we're ranked dead last in poverty even though our social services are minimal. We expect people to be responsible for their actions and the vast majority of people are. I can walk into a store an buy a long gun just my showing my license to prove I'm over 18, no permit, registration, fingerprints needed yet we're 47th for gun violence.
Have gnu, will travel.
If the officers didn't have Tasers, would they have pulled their gun and shot her instead?
No? Then they shouldn't have used a Taser - no exceptions.
I can't believe that this isn't the law. They have no way of knowing, if the target is going to die as a result of the Tasering. What happens if the current runs across a pace maker? Insulin pump? Other life saving medical equipment?
Pepper spray has similar issues, but at a slightly less violent level. In my opinion pepper spray should only be used, if the officers would have used a night stick if they didn't have the spray. I.e. not on non-violent protesters sitting in the street rtc.
Again, I really don't understand why this is not the law already.
Seems to me they could have cleared up any communication issue with the very device the customer was buying.
"Officers used a “dry force” taser, said Hansen, which is less painful than the type of taser that shoots electrodes at the target to deliver the shock. A dry force taser has no probes, and is instead pressed directly to the skin."
From the boston.com article
Not saying I agree that this was a shining moment in the history of the Nashua Police, but lets get the facts straight.
Before I knew about this story, in a cab this evening I was asked by a European what I thought about the U.S. I said there is something wrong with it, something fundamentally morally wrong. I mentioned how strident and militaristic the country has become over the past 20 years, how the media is complicit, how nobody ever mentions what seem to be huge numbers of civilians killed in the Iraq war, which in another country would be grounds for a war crimes trial.. and how students get tazed.
I said I thought something has gone wrong, that there is a big moral dilemma. I see this being an American who has lived outside the U.S. for a while. He seemed relieved saying he totally agreed. Then I come home and read about a tasing in an Apple Store.
Casual tazing and ultra-cynical liars in office and on the TV really worries me, the more I think about it the more it worries me. It isn't about export or not. Listen. There is a deep disease in the moral fiber or psychological constitution or socialized norms, whatever you call it, that reflects a ruinous self-negation in the U.S.A., that counterbalances all the wonderful things like slashdot and makers and late night comedians exposing hypocrisy, and summer barbecues and bookstores, oh lots of things. If people had their heads screwed on right the extreme prejudice of cops like this would cause them to be immediately kicked out and hounded mercilessly by the masses who are reading about it online right now. This does not happen because the actions of these officers is an organic result of a major imbalance that is unchecked.
My first idea is that the imbalance is fueled by a power-hungry elite, by a cynical military-industrial-financial complex but to tell you the truth that is bullshit. It is because everyone, all of you, and me, and your families and friends, are all self satisfied consumers of information who, once satisfied in an ADHD kind of sense with having taken in the information, ignores it and will not act on it, because of being media saturated and socialized. People often joke about how far off the conservative edge are both conservatives and liberals in the U.S. but that is because THE NORM IS OFF-BALANCE AND SLIDING. I do not have an answer but I urge you to think about what you can do to find one.
- IPhone is made in China, so no export restrictions can apply. In fact, the IPhone is an imported good..
- What if the woman was buying them for all her employees. Or for a sweepstake. 16,000 USD is only 20 IPhones.
- Tasering a 160 lb woman for not complying is NOT what the taser is meant for. It is a tool for protecting the officer in a self defense situation.
Yes, because clearly, Apple was the sole inventor of the "Limit X per customer" method of retail sales and there is absolutely NO prior art from any other store in the history of the world
No, Apple invented the "Violent attack limit X per customer" method.
It's a special blend of the conventional "sell people everything you can" and the muggers "Give me your wallet or I'll smash you teeth in" methods of acquiring money..
I used to live in Nashua and I found that the times I had to interact with the Nashua police, it might as well have been the Nazi SS. Not all cops are bad, but the Nashua PD clearly has an issue with hiring/promoting scumbags and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the batch.
Why would burly police men ever have to escalate violence against somebody just trying to buy some christmas presents? Sure, they asked her to leave, and when they ask you to leave and you don't its trespassing so they were right to call the police. But the reaction by the police was completely overbearing.
For added lulz, google "Nashua Gannon wire tapping". The officer who was harassing this guy at his own house late at night was the guy I had the pleasure of dealing with the time I got a speeding ticket. Its never pleasant getting a ticket, but he was like interrogating me about why i was going so fast and why I thought I could do that and etc - never mind the detail that he wrote me up for doing 50 in a 30 when the speed limit was actually 40 where I was driving. Got it dropped in court no problem, but if you're gonna do you your job as a police officer, don't get the facts wrong.
In short, I will definitely never, ever, ever be going back to Nashua NH.
What a kind of dipshit are you? what are you a cop? If she had a baseball bat and was smashing the shop up then okay zap her and lock her up.
What on earth makes you think that they didn't try to remove her from the store by other means before tasing her?
Common sense, if two trained officers of the law cannot remove a disorderly person without resorting to electrocution then they need to find another profession. Simply restraining her and _if_ and only _if_ then pin her down (easily remember 90 pound woman not the hulk). Unless she was strong enough two overpower the two officers then slamming her down and issuing a dose electrocution is woefully excessive.
Picking her up with one arm and putting her in the back of a police car can be considered as assault as well.
So is shooting her in the head with a 9mm but I hope you're intelligent enough to see the various shades of grey on your own statement.
Police should be held account by the same laws as citizens in times of apprehending people and that is reasonable applied force only. This is clearly not reasonable, not by a long shot. As excessive force is punishable by laws of assault these officers should bare such charges.
Other than calling in Officer Fluttershy to use The Stare on her, how do you suggest the situation be handled?
I am sure there is way more involved then "she just wanted to buy too many iPhones and got tased" even without RTFA.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
She was both Chinese and female. Genetics tell me they could just carry her out of the store.
While not entirely germaine to this discussion of quantity limits, exporting iPhones, presumed innocence, and iElectricity I hadn't seen this part mentioned yet.
There is only one reason to skip most of the apple stores near or around Newton, MA. It's to avoid the Massachusetts sales tax, as New Hampshire has no sales tax. She was reportedly carrying $16k in cash so without paying sales tax, she would be able to purchases potentially 2-4 additional iPhones.
I think she knows a bit more English and "how things work" than her story would otherwise have us believe.
I wasn't at the mall, I'm not claiming to be an expert on Police policy, and I have no connections to LE. However what this comes down to is that this woman was tresspassing on a premise she was asked to leave on more than one occasion. We take property rights very seriously here, this was a long drawn out incedent with someone from Massholechusetts who thought that they didn't have to follow the rules. She didn't get asked to leave for the first time then tased 30 seconds later. There is no freedom to not listen to cops, we're a reasonable state and you're ordered to leave you should listen. Language barrier is being falsely injected into this story, it's not like it's hard to pantomime telling someone to GFTO.
She had a chance to listen with the request to leave, and chose not too. It's her personal responsibilty to comply with the law, if this were on someones private property they would have had the right to brandish(but not fire) a gun. We don't baby people up here like a lot of the other states, she screwed up and payed the price. Live Free or Die doesn't mean you have the freedom to ignore the law.
New Hampshire is a unique place compared to most other states especially in this part of the country. While we may be ranked #1 in beer consumption we're ranked dead last in poverty even though our social services are minimal. We expect people to be responsible for their actions and the vast majority of people are. I can walk into a store an buy a long gun just my showing my license to prove I'm over 18, no permit, registration, fingerprints needed yet we're 47th for gun violence.
This sort of sums out the New Hampshire way, the rights of the property owner to have a tresspassor removed come before the rights of the tresspassor to keep being an asshole. If you watch the youtube video it's not as bad as TFA makes it seem, she didn't get shot with a taser it was a handheld one to get her to hold still so she could be cuffed. There's also a funny part where a random bystander walks over and stands right over the two cops trying to cuff her and just watches them.
arrested for criminal trespass (refusing to leave private property) and applied with nonlethal force for resisting arrest. You'll find the outcome is roughly the same in nearly every country in the world
Good people go to bed earlier.
Just be glad they didn't have pepper spray. They might have bathed her in it while she lay on the ground. It's apparently a popular compliance technique with the overweight law enforcement crowd.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Live Free Or Die.
It's not a motto, it's an enforced regulation.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
a leather jacket or any thick clothing would be enough. A taser has to attach the prongs to you so anything that prevents contact and does not conduct electricity would work.
Nope. A police taser has two barbs that go through your clothing and into your skin. Then a current is passed between the two barbs. A leather jacket will not protect you.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I'm seeing this assertion all over this thread, but a dearth of sources. I recall a few anecdotes myself, from other Slashdot articles. But I get the impression that it's only because tasers are still regarded as "techy", and make the news, while plain old beatings don't.
Has anybody got any data on whether tasers are actually being used increasingly, and aren't just a substitution for the kind of brutality that leaves incriminating bruises? I assume that the incidence is increasing as more and more officers have them, but is this additional violence, or are the tasers making formerly non-violent officers violent?
I'll still never understand people that choose to come here but refuse to learn even some basic English language skills. Like "No" or "leave", etc. Why do you intentionally make life more difficult for yourself?
Although I suspect she is playing up the "I no speak English" bit to make it seem like she wasn't really trespassing or resisting arrest.
And what the hell was up with her doing the interview from her bed? Is she trying to act like she has been crippled by the taser or something?
Pheasant Lane Mall is also just over the border from Massachusetts and is a popular shopping destination in New England, especially for out-of-state shoppers because New Hampshire is free of sales tax.
I'm reminded of that case of the UK police tasing a man who had fallen into a diabetic coma because he was unconscious and did not follow their instructions.
Cops don't have brains, anyone with brains would not do that job. It does attract psychopaths with a craving for power though.
Or maybe she'll pull out a gun and start shooting. Don't you watch the news man? People get shot just for going to the movies or school nowadays!
You have a large number of misconceptions.
No one shouted private property.
You have the right to have someone removed from your property if they refuse to leave when you tell them. Or can we come over and sit in your house and laugh when you tell us to leave? Hell no you'll call the police and expect them to do something about it!
This is a business. They advised her of their policies. They told her to leave. At that point she is no longer a customer and has no business on their property AND is committing a criminal act by refusing to leave. No need to wait for her to steal phones OR try to run your other customers off. She is already a criminal.
Lack of martial training is actually of benefit...to the criminal. There are no tells to let the police know what she intends. Ask any martial artist (and I do not mean eastern martial arts...ANY martial art will reply the same.) They will tell you that fighting someone untrained is always worse than fighting trained opponents, because you have no idea what they are going to do.
She is a woman and therefor weaker and less dangerous than a man. Firstly you're being exceedingly condescending and chauvinistic for someone I am betting has never even been in a fight before. Secondly, in a physical confrontation, women have far fewer taboos than men. They claw, they kick, they bite, they pull hair, they go for the groin, they spit, they do pretty much anything a cornered animal can do to get away or hurt you until you stop struggling.
Seriously, what were they supposed to do? Slap her on the wrist, smack her on the bottom and send her on her way? She was placed under arrest for trespassing after she refused to leave the store....in front of one of the the officers in question who was already in the store. She refused to comply. At that point they tried to make her comply, they went to the floor and rather than struggle and possibly cause injury to themselves or the woman, they tasered her to force her compliance. And it worked. No one else was harmed and she became complaint afterwards. This is about the clearest case FOR the use of a taser I think I have ever seen. She was indeed resisting arrest and struggling, refusing to do what they told her, and rather than drag it out until someone got hurt, they tased her. She is not dead. She's not even in the hospital! She was booked and made bail and went home!
Score one for society when a law breakers biggest complain is being forced to let the cops arrest them.
... that anyone buying an iPhone should be tazed?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
It's just they're there to protect and serve the state, not the people.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
So she could have tasered them back
Gently reply
You might call me old fashioned or sexist here, but where I'm from we get taught not to use violence against women.
Ok, you are old fashioned and sexist. How about not using violence against anyone? You're basically implying that it is acceptable to use violence against men but not women. Gender should play NO role in this discussion whatsoever. Men are no more deserving of violence than women.
I'm not saying the police were entirely wrong in this instance with the taiser but as a former resident of Nashua I've also had unpleasant run-ins with the Nashua Police that don't show exemplary behavior on their part. About ten years ago, they were ready to break down the door to my apartment at 1am. Apparently they had an arrest warrant for the former resident and leasee but their police records were at least one year out-of-date. The police made NO apologies or explanations...They just walked off after realizing their mistake. I had to piece together what happened, myself. Needless to say, its alarming when you are woken out of a sound sleep on a work night by yelling and banging at your door.
Kung-Fu master, afraid they might get their asses kicked by a girl?
Who knows, maybe they were right, maybe her Kung Fu is the best!
Cops like their tasers way too much. Over here in Vermont they tasered a man to death who was no threat. Of course, they also use machine guns for that purpose too in other cases here in Vermont so it isn't just tasers it is the attitude of the cops. Our beloved government then defends the cops and lets them off scott free. We've had six cases like this in the last couple of years - that's a lot for such a small state with such a peaceful population. The problem with the tasers is the cops view them as 'non-lethal' when in fact they're killing people with them.
I don't see what the issue is. If she wants to spend that much money on iPhones, let her.
Maybe we should just Taser everyone who doesn't speak English (with Double volts to Grammar Nazis).
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
'Minimal personal consequences' for the officers. If another perp happens to suffer from 'excited delirium'(probably because of drugs, if we can find any), well, maybe some paid leave will be in order...
where people on slashdot fail to understand the fine art of sarcasm
FIFY
This is racism: When the shop owner thinks that this woman, because she is from another ethnicity, will sell the iPhones outside of the US, then it is racism. Asking this woman to leave is like asking a black person to leave because of some random reason, because he is going to sell the iPhones in Africa for example.
The police, who arrests this woman because she refuse to leave the shop (why couldn't she do the same thing than the other people), is just doing the dirty job of the shop owner.
And the ending with the tazer is just the climax of this chain of stupidity.
hahaha good point.
become Microsoft? I thought they wanted to create a bit of good-will with their new Chinese customer base, rather than using heavy-handed tactics in an attempt to squash typical marketplace responses?
"resisted" is such a subjective concept... it's human nature to resist *ANYONE* who touches you when you don't know the person, unless you are given adequate warning that they are going to do so.
More than likely, the woman recoiled when she was touched and this was construed as "resisting", whereas, I expect if she was given the opportunity to choose to obey verbal commands... it may have played out differently. If she was incapable of comprehending those verbal commands, that should not warrant assaulting her (which tasering is). What evidence do the police have that this woman spoke English well enough to fully understand what they were saying?
Or should it be a mandatory requirement that to shop in the USA, you need to be fluent in English or else you'll be deported?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I don't see why you've put a capital "D" to "Doub@afgy#VHEaagrWFlgfdshbzzzzzzzzzzz!!!
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
All those people work for Vandelay Industries. They're Importers/Exporters.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Problem solved.
Signed,
Bender
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
The story says she was Tasered when she came in to pick up phones she had already ordered on line. So she was rightfully demanding that the store fulfill an obligation to her.
As for "unauthorized export", that has no meaning in state law, and state cops have no authority in that area. There are some Federal restrictions, but they involve mostly the few countries the US still doesn't get along with, like Cuba and North Korea. You can ship all the iPhones you want to China as far as the US is concerned. Importing into China is difficult, much more so than importing into the US. But that's enforced at China customs processing. Not by some mall cop.
As if your home-brew Linux shitbox is any more noble than an iPhone.
You mean my Chromebook? By Samsung? Not more noble. But lighter than Macbook Air.
That's the fate someone should face for buying an iphone!!!
mmmmm.....
How about the thousands who die every day after drinking water?
The summary is a lie. She as tasered because she refused to leave the store.
Hostility against Apple fans has reached a new height.
Actually, taser is a regular english word... in the dictionary, and not captilized. But that's beside the point.
A stungun is still assault... and in my opinion is not justified under any circumstance that physically beating the person with a club would not also be, which in general should only happen when it appears that the person may harm somebody. If they are unarmed, not starting to make any sort of agressive moves towards anyone, and do not actually appear to be threatening anyone, even verbally, then there is no indication that it will escalate into a violent confrontation, so simple restraint should be adequate. I have no problem with them having a stungun ready just in case, but when push comes to shove, it is STILL a weapon. That it's technically nonlethal is beside the point. I therefore remain resolute in the belief that using tasers, or stunguns, or ANY kind of weapon, should *NEVER* be used on a human being as a means of forcing compliance simply because a person appears to be resisting unless there is also an indication that they are likely to become physically violent. If a police officer doesn't have the self-defense training to be able to handle dealing with somebody who needs to be arrested, but actually isn't posing any danger to anybody, then there's something amiss right there.
Also, while it's unarguable given what has transpired previously that the woman has some command of English, there is no indication that her comprehension was sufficient to genuinely understand exactly what was being asked of her at that time... people's ability to think clearly can be seriously impaired when they are put into a situation where they don't have the time to think clearly, and they simply react. I'm not saying that makes what the woman was doing acceptable, I'm saying that the cops are guilty of the same irrational reactions themselves... instead of thinking through the situation logically, they simply reacted based on an immediate perception. That kind of mentality is only likely to endanger completely innocent people if it is not restrained.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
My line of work is Martial Arts instructor going on (14 years) and I work in government funded Youth Justice offence prevention program for the state.
All of what you say is utter shit. Scratching eyes, spitting? really? two police officers really worried about that? They are cops fuck-knuckle they signed up for this! don't like it become a freaking florist. Seriously harden the hell up.
Pretty sure that's what IA is there for?
Straight off the bat you watch too much TV. IA I'd imagine is your typical misconduct investigation group yeah? They'll give this whole issue 2 mins of their time and then lawyers battle it out, this really is not an IA "thing" if you get my drift. AI is more concerned with dirty cops helping the import of dope, you know proper corruption. IA will look at this as see two low-level idiodic cops and they'll feed them to the sharks.
at maximum, less amperage than what an active smartphoneAustralia draws being used against someone.
They kill people too. Just killed a guy last month, healthy young man, ran from police ended up dead from the taser.
What on earth makes you think that they didn't try to remove her from the store by other means before tasing her?
90 POUND WOMAN! 2 POLICE OFFICERS TRAINED TO ARREST PEOPLE! You people should just pack your shit up in the middle east, obviously when China decides to launch an all out war all they'll need is little tiny Chinese woman with iPhones take you on.
You know all you create with your babbling is more reasons to inflict these "nanny state" measures on society.
With the use of sufficient, equal to or opposite as the law mandates.
re:Encryption for DRM purposes no longer counts as munitions. ;>)
Wait, so I've got this idea for sending encrypted messages without breaking the hardware-encryption-export laws. Have the message said out loud by Alice (or have Alice perform an interpretive dance that encodes/denotes the message) but along with it, have a copyrighted musical performance playing in the background. Now use encryption as DRM to ensure that no unauthorized person gets access to that copyrighted musical performance! We just switch
f_{DRM} ((Alice's message A as foreground)+(copyright performance B) ) into
A is background and B is foreground and f(A+B) is now protected by DRM which requires encryption. That should fly, right?
Just be glad they didn't have pepper spray. They might have bathed her in it while she lay on the ground. It's apparently a popular compliance technique with the overweight law enforcement crowd.
You mean the typical law enforcement crowd?
Your post and the video in TFS prompted me to go to youtube in search of tazer/police brutality footage. Truly disheartening. I would recommend to anyone to do the same for a more visceral experience of what appears to be common police activity.
I live in Nashua. A few months ago I heard a police officer outside my window tell a woman she wasn't allowed to record video of him using her cell phone. A man in Nashua has been arrested twice for recording them. The cops here are pretty fucking bad.
There has been a recent update in this report. Officers have now stated that upon searching the woman's vehicle, they discovered an accordion. Authorities have not commented on additional charges being filed, however New Hampshire is a right to silence state, opening up the possibility of a life sentence for crimes committed with an obnoxious instrument.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
"A woman who said she was asked to leave New Hampshire's Pheasant Lane Mall because she WANTED TO BUY too many ...
Maybe the cops were right but you have to prove a crime was committed.
The next question is, what would the response have been had the woman been a hispanic, black, powhite, east european immigrant, smartly dressed lady with credit cards... ?
OK
Apple will release the iTaser next week.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
You sir are either an idiot, or blissfully ignorant of the actions of police officers in your area. I was peripherally connected to the police commission in my last US abode, thus I was not.
Luke, help me take this mask off