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New Console Always-Online Requirements and You
An anonymous reader writes "The new Xbox is almost here and the details appear to strongly suggest 'always on' is the way forward. We all know that this is an artificial requirement and certainly there are plenty of people on all sides of the table. To paraphrase the user 'tuffy' who commented on this issue at Ars Technica recently; if you're trying to sell 'always online' as a feature of the future, there needs to be some benefit for me the customer. There is not one. Or, rather, there is no sign yet of any actual clearly compelling reason why any end user would support this limitation to their purchase. So, what's the best way to express this? Spend your money on an Ouya? Contact the Xbox team? These are all valid options but they also lack visibility. What we need is a way that could help actually quantify the levels of discontent in the gamer community. Maybe E3 attendees could turn their backs in protest like some did during Thatcher's funeral procession. Or gamers could sign some useless petition. What do Slashdotters think? Is the upcoming Steam box a reasonable plan? As a gamer, I'm of two minds about the whole thing. I really don't like it but I may roll over eventually and join the herd because I could get used to it. Then again part of me is rankled by this slow erosion of access to me and my data."
The only winning move is not to play.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
That still thinks the 720 will be "always on."
Microsoft have emphatically denied this is the case.
Xi3 is NOT the SteamBox.
Steam basically requires an internet connection. Offline mode exists, but you need to switch it over while you have a connection, so its useless if you go offline suddenly.
I have no reason to believe that the steambox will be any different.
Use a PC for gaming and vote with your wallet (refuse to buy games that require internet connection).
Oh you mean always online when it's on, not always on. Well, let's wait 20 minutes and check again.
I will not be buying another xbox.
The game quality has gone down. The bullshit has gone up.
It's a bad deal. I'll pass.
Just don't buy one.
The new Xbox is almost here and the details appear to strongly suggest 'always on' is the way forward.
There's too much hysteria about this. I've not seen anything that suggests 'always on' is 'your console won't work if it isn't connected all the time'.
I put my books on Amazon, Smashwords, Demonoid, ISOHunt and Pirate Bay. Search for 'Michael Cargill'
A PC, PS3 and Wii was all I had.
The few exclusives 360 had weren't worth the hassle. Not to mention how much of a rip Live is.
Most are on the other consoles and PC.
It will likely be the same. Well, worse.
A hacker will provide a fix to remove that always online requirement. Problem solved.
That would make an xbox worth buying? I didn't notice one in the previous generation...
I apologize for the lack of a signature.
Whats the point of consoles again? Its not like any next gen console have any chance in hell of being more powerful than my PC. Why should I spend money on a separate box?
And who the hell wants to use a game pad to play an FPS?
Microsoft knows and abuses their user base. For example, all Xbox Live game servers are hosted by players. These players pay a yearly fee to MS, so that MS will grant them the privilege of hosting these servers and playing against other players. MS is basically getting free money.
Rednecks who don't know better; Call of Duty dudebros; 13 year olds with gullible soccer moms - these are all people don't give a shit about always online and represent the core audience of the Xbox brand. They'll buy the next console without asking questions and they'll create the critical mass MS and publishers need in order to push always online.
People who hope the PS4 will save us from always online are naive. Always online has always been the publishers' wet dream. They've been pushing for this for years. At the very least, MS and Sony will implement mechanisms so that any publisher will be able to impose the always online requirement for their games. And remember, MS and Sony are also publishers, and they're quite big publishers. Where do you expect people to go once all games released by Activision, EA, Sony, MS, Ubisoft and others will all require always online? How will you fight a cartel in its own walled garden?
Blizzard games, Steam games, even the dreaded SimCity sell tens of millions of copies each year, despite the various types of (partially) always online requirements. Always online is here to stay and there's nothing you can do, because of the massive amount of people who will gobble this up without thinking twice.
Sig
Quite simple.
Do what countless users and corporations have done over the last decade: if the latest and greatest is not so much better than the existing system, do not buy it, and continue using the older system and games built for the older system.
All threats from microsoft, as in the win XP case, will come to nought. not even Ballmer, who has proved his, ah, "determination", will try to stem the flow when content designers will say: "the installed base of 360 is X million consoles, and they continue to buy both older classic games and the new ones we design. If we target only the new console with this newfangled game, we'll be lucky to sell a couple hundred thousand. No contest, babe, it's either this or Sony."
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
"As a gamer, I'm of two minds about the whole thing. I really don't like it but I may roll over eventually and join the herd because I could get used to it."
And that's your problem right there. Why is everybody expecting that sticking to your principles doesn't need something in return?
...there needs to be some benefit for me the customer.
Does there? Or will people just buy it anyway and in some cases complain about it after their purchase?
Always on is the content industry's wet dream, whereby the purchase model turns to a leasing model. This has huge ramifications.
The time people will really start caring is in ten years time when the activiation servers are switched off and they can't play their games anymore.
I'm fairly sure the "always online" requirement on these things is a play to get better marketing data on consumers en masse. The thing that concerns me is: when you tie that desire, the always-online requirement that's gaining popularity, and the technology behind Kinect, what happens?
Am I just paranoid, or is this a rational concern? I'm sure as hell not letting anyone watch me in my goddamn living room.
Unplug it from power outlet and the network? Lets see if its ALWAYS ON then? ;)
And guess what: despite being a license and a contract controlling the license, you cannot get a refund for saying "no" after reading the fine print.
Or if they change the "contract", you're stuck with nothing or accepting, no other options.
You know? With the android mobile gaming market showing signs of serious growth and market presence, how is it they think they can milk the addicted gaming market for more that so many can tolerate? They want their $50-60 every time the disk media changes hands? When fun little games exist on Android devices for a dollar?! Really?
I'm rather interested to see how badly the "big ticket" gaming market fails. Their greed will be the root cause.
It's bizarre, OK I suppose MS have done their homework, but why force this on consumers?
Sure, I suppose nearly all of their target market has a connection, but even so, I can think of many use cases where that might not be available, including intentionally.
For example, when my children were young, I was happy for them to be playing with consoles not connected to the internet, since I could control exactly what games they could use, (nice mix of fun & eductaion, all safe).
Also, at home my internet connection goes down..a lot.
So, agree with the major sentiment here; fuck 'em, do not buy.
Build yourself a nice little PC instead.
Steam only has DRM the publishers chose. You're free to support the ones who do things DRM free. Steam does not require a connection to play in any way shape or form.
These are the facts.
What I hate so much about "always online" is that EVENTUALLY these companies are going to shut down their servers and people who want to play these games in the future will be screwed. I really do hope hacking solutions come out of this, otherwise you're going to have an entire generation of games that literally cannot be played in the future. Imagine if movies did that and you could no longer watch The Shawshank Redemption because its profitability expired a long time ago and it cost money to keep the movie servers running.
If you think this won't happen, see how Microsoft has pulled the plug on multiplayer Halo 1 / 2 or Mercenaries 2. At least the single player component wasn't affected, but for future games, it will be. Over enough time, without proper cracks, these games will be IMPOSSIBLE to play.
I hate this mentality of forcing everyone online with no recourse for when the plug eventually gets pulled. It's intentionally destroying culture in the name of profit, which I find immoral.
Oh, that's right, they don't say, do they.
They don't say if it has third-party DRM either.
And to install you HAVE to connect to their service. Upates? Have to connect. And sometimes, though the game itself may be OK with being offline, the Steam client demands you log on to update IT. And since you have to (or at least normally do, and have no reason to know you shouldn't this time) run the steam client to start the game, it won't start because the steam client won't run.
Microsoft is just using this whole always online thing to get everyone worked up so they are super focused on the fact that there is this onerous requirement. That way when they announce that it is not in fact going to be always on, the press will spend so much time focused on that they won't even notice that it's price is in the stratosphere unless you agree to a subscription regardless.
So, what's the best way to express this? Spend your money on an Ouya?
Are you fucking DAFT?! You have to connect the Ouya to the Internet AND give it your credit card information before you can even use it. It requires a mandatory firmware update out of the box. Then, EVERY game must be Free To Play in some capacity. As a game dev I want to like the OUYA, but it's shit. I can't even just put a full version of a game and demo version out and have you buy the game outright if you want -- Nope, instead I have to create an in-app-purchase and lock away features calling the locked neutered game a "demo", and then I have to check with the Ouya DRM servers before you start playing the full version of the game (better be connected to the Internet, always). Other games that are "free to play" and funded via in-app-purchased micro-transactions are roughly equivalent to "always online DRM", you doofus.
Ouya == Free To Play PITA == Always Online DRM. You want to escape this crap?! So do I. Game on your damn PCs. PLEASE!
Always on? Think about your electricity bill...
You can have the beneficts of being online, like getting automatic updates for software, sharing videos, even be able to play multiplayer matches, withouth being forced to be always online.. you only need to be online for when data transfer occurs.
The people tryiing to push on the market always online will try to blur the line, and paint always online as a feature, but is the exact oposite, the reduction of features.
...also "feature an always on", and they recommend that it's turned on so it can automatically update the system while turned "off".
I have however - paranoid as I am - blocked the camera on the console with black tape, there's hardly any games using that camera anyway.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
You should get a life yourself idiot boy!
... let them do it. They fucked up with Win8 , lets just get the popcorn and watch them fuck up xbox too.
People - an xbox is just a toy. If we were talking PC operating systems requiring always on then fine, that would be Bad News. But an Xbox? Meh, who cares. Its hardly a crucial purchase and hardcore gamers will use PCs anyway.
There is a benefit to the consumer: playing video games on the new Xbox. The consumer doesn't pick, in isolation, whether they want always-on connectivity; they choose whether or not to buy the whole bundle of good and bad design decisions that make up the Xbox. There is presumably a group of people who will move from wanting an Xbox to not wanting one because of this feature, but my gut feeling is that they won't be that numerous, because I think that the games, not the technical requirements, are probably uppermost in peoples' minds when buying a console.
I'll just leave this here: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win.
Spend your money on an Ouya? Contact the Xbox team? These are all valid options but they also lack visibility.
Make a social app for the smartphones that ties to a twitter hashtag or 2 which allows the user to state they are not buying X for Y reason.
Bonus - make sure a site/method exists for non-smart phone users to make the same hashtag submissions so tweets can be inflated.
sopcial shunning worked well enough at the old village level. Today smartcellphones can allow everyone who gives a damn about something to be part of a global viliage. Leverage that and make it easy to shun. You know you've hit the mark when Google bans your app.
People hate 'always on' DRM. No one likes it. Some hate it with a fiery passion.
It's 'people' like you who assume the following:
That gives M$ the notion that doing this would work. Seriously, only because people like you exist, the "if you're getting raped you might as well enjoy it" logic people...fsk you and your notions of consumer choice.
Platforms can die when the alienate their users and/or make bad business decisions, ex: Sega, Neo/Geo
Thank you Dave Raggett
Just like the 'hackers' jailbroke the 360, right? Oh that's right, they didn't.
Still playing Pandora's Tower, The Last Dtory was great, Xenoblade Chronicles awesome, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword amazing, Red Steel 2 fabulous, Goldeneye: 007 riveting, The Conduit quite entertaining, Metroid PrimeTrilogy --- I need to go back and finish that...
By the time I'm done, there should be games I want for the Wii U --- hoping for a motion-controlled RPG.
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
Xbox360 charges for its online component. I figure I already pay for my Internet so why should I have to pay more. I didn't buy an Xbox360 last generation because of this. Always on makes me want to play even less so it looks like I won't be buying this generation either.
God spoke to me
I'm still buying an Ouya, but now I know not to buy a second controller for it. I'm just going to use it as a media center et cetera. Seems like overkill, but there is nothing else for $100 that is remotely as powerful that comes with a case and a warranty.
That is, unless someone can convince me that some other solution is worth buying. I'm not getting an Odroid-U2 with a four week warranty, though. That means they know it will fail.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Microsoft screwed up with their redesign of Windows 8 and lousy integration...I don't even want to pirate Windows 8.
Then they screwed up with the attempting to tie Office to a single PC for life. As a person who just had a computer short out, and who might have to replace the left-hand-side of the computer, my definition of 'single PC' and Microsoft's is different.
Then there's online-office. What? You expect me to use office ONLINE? No thanks.
It's now XBox's turn for Microsoft to screw up.
ATI has come out and said there won't be another DirectX. Does Microsoft /really/ want to give away gaming, the only reason to still have a PC in the home?
The modern Windows Phone can't be counted, because it never really happened...and same with Windows RT.
Maybe their next mis-step is something in the back office. Exchange? Maybe they'll implement a per-message fee.
I just don't see it. Why do the shareholders still support Balmer?
Always-on would be like putting a tablet interface on a desktop OS. It's would be painful for customers and MS wouldn't do that to us.
It's not really forced, their target audience willingly will do this. You're likely not that target audience.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
If the Xbox requires online connectivity and 'dissuades' pre-owned game playing, it's simple, I'll get the PS4. No need to jump to Ouya (which I'm getting one BTW), it's a different platform for different things.
"There is no pressing need for MS to require "always on""
I'm sure Homeland Security and Kinect would disagree.
your alternative is to maintain a ridiculous and expensive beast of a PC where the video card alone costs more than a console.
Video card? What video card? Skyrim is playable without one now.
At what point do we stop with this drm crap do we stop with this or do we stop with having to play only with a microsoft thug having to sit beside us to hold our hand and verify we didn't steal their stuff if I wanted to be treated like a criminal I would just download their stuff with a hack and be happier albeit feel guiltier but happier
In my country I can
If other people reading this want what you have, what is your country looking for in immigrants?
Second hand sales let you get (relatively) recent game for lower price. The same as do steam sales. Which is why you can support second hand sales and steam in the same breath. Heck I can at the moment buy a lot of gmae half price, on steam, some of which I saw full price or only 10% off in retail stores.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
But isn't the fact that you need to "buy" an Internet connection when you buy/use the Xbox an example of some sort of illegal bundling? Or would that only be the case if MS owned and sold the Xbox and the connection? Not trying to troll, just curious.
Bark less. Wag more.
Then always play offline unless playing multiplayer
Part of the complaint is that games don't support offline multiplayer through LAN or, in appropriate genres, offline multiplayer through connecting several Xbox 360 Controllers to a PC's USB ports.
but DRM on Steam is actually optional
So what phrase should I look for in the game's description in the Steam store to be sure that a game uses neither Steam DRM nor third-party DRM? Or should I just switch to GOG?
I am just wondering if the Internet echo chamber has blew this way out of proportion. What if they are referring to always online in another sense?
Downloading updates, games, or movies when the console is in standby mode
The ability to use it as a Media Center when it is in standby
That's just a couple examples, but I am sure there could be many other benefits of having a console that is always online that has nothing to do with DRM. After the highly visible fiascoes such as the Sim City launch and the lack of Internet availability or stability in many parts of the country, much less the world, I can't see them writing off a large percentage of potential buyers by requiring to be online to play every game, even in single player. I still have a few friends in rural areas that are on dialup that do not have access to broadband, or one on satellite with it's 500 ms ping times on a good day.
Consoles are better for developers as they have uniform specs
True, but PCs are better for (especially smaller) developers in a different way: lower barrier to entry. PCs don't automatically exclude home-based businesses nor charge a $40,000 fee for patch certification.
And who the hell wants to use a game pad to play an FPS?
Who the heck wants to use a mouse to play Mega Man or Contra or Street Fighter series?* Who the heck wants to buy multiple machines to play a cooperative platformer like New Super Mario Bros. or a fighting game like Super Smash Bros. Brawl?
* But seriously, if you have an idea of how a mouse could help a platformer or fighting game, I'd like to read it.
Thirty years from now, someone's going to take their Xbox out of the attic and say, "This is what daddy used to play games on!", hook it up to their 4 meter wide screen, somehow patch it to their Internet3 connection, only to realize MS went under twenty years earlier and the games are no longer playable.
~ Don't be sad Daddy! We could still play them in emulation!
~ Ah, it's not the same. Besides, no one bothered to make an emulator for this box. The games pretty much sucked.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Seriously. Want to still play games, but the consoles don't do what you want? Use a computer. They are first-flight gaming platforms these days. Currently more powerful than any console, even with lower range hardware. You can also get games with whatever your DRM tolerance is. Being open platforms, developers can really do wahtever they like so you find it runs the gamut. There are some games with always-on DRM, Ubisoft is pretty (in)famous for that. There are games with DRM that requires you to go online to activate once, but then not again. There are games with DRM that kinda fades in to the background and is just part of the setup (like Steam). Finally there are games with no DRM at all.
So you can play whatever games meet your requirements in terms of level of DRM. There's nothing being forced by a larger entity, and indeed because of the varied market it is easy to vote with your dollars and developers can see the result of that.
So you don't have to wait for some alternative, there is already one here, and you probably already have the basics of what you need. A Windows PC (there just aren't many games for Linux at this point) with a reasonably modern processor is a good foundation, then knock a $100ish graphics card in and you are good to go.
Yes you can hook it to your TV and use a controller, if that is what you desire.
But they'll grant publishers free reign on always online in software.
Will publishers be required to disclose "INTERNET CONNECTION REQUIRED DURING PLAY" conspicuously on the front of the box? If so, that'll be fine: gamers can just vote with their wallets against such games.
Steam forces their own DRM, Steamworks, on all games. Unlike some other DD servers (Impulse for example) there is no capability to release a game without the built-in DRM. Publishers can use additional DRM as well, but Steamworks is mandatory.
It's pretty low key DRM over all, most people are ok with it (I am) but it is DRM. You have to have Steam running and be logged in to your account to be able to play a game. You don't have to be online, you can cache your credentials and play offline, but you must have Steam running and logged in or you cannot play a game.
Many people are ok with Steam DRM, I'm one of them, but don't be disingenuous and claim there isn't DRM. There is and it is required.
But I just don't play consoles anymore. I can run my web browser ETC in my second monitor of my PC while I play games on the other, and the graphical quality and controls are unsurpassed by any console.
Consoles are migrating their way to the variety of things a good gaming PC can do, but haven't made it there yet. Why waste time on a garbage machine from Microsoft anyway?
When fun little games exist on Android devices for a dollar
I agree that turn-based point-and-click games work well with a touch screen or mouse, but I suspect that people who buy a console do so because they aren't big fans of turn-based point-and-click games. Games in some genres, such as platformers and fighting games, don't work so well with only a pointing device. Some games for iOS and Android try to emulate a gamepad, but when I've tried a few of those games, I've ended up pressing the wrong button or no button at all because when I'm watching the action in the middle of the screen, I can't see whether my thumb is centered over a button, nor can I feel the edges of the buttons on the flat sheet of glass that is a Nexus 7 tablet's touch screen. It's possible to plug a USB game controller into an Android 4 device through an OTG cable, but developers can't rely on this because you can't bundle a controller or even an OTG cable with a game download.
Or by "Android devices" did you mean one coming out in two months that has essentially no consonants in its name?
You're likely not that target audience.
You have sprayed this catchphrase all over this story's comments section. I'll agree for the sake of argument that this product isn't designed for audiences that aren't Microsoft's target, such as homes with minor children, homes with poor availability of Internet connections, or using a console away from home. But what comparable product is for these audiences?
Steam only has DRM the publishers chose. You're free to support the ones who do things DRM free.
I'd like to learn how. Please see my other comment.
Dont buy it. Simple. If people keep using their Wii, Playstation, or older version of XBox they'll learn. I don't keep my Wii on all the time. Yes, it knows about my wifi network, but I don't play "social" games and I don't play stuff that requires itself to be "always connected" to the internet.
Nope, instead I have to create an in-app-purchase and lock away features calling the locked neutered game a "demo"
Doom by Id Software split the game into three episodes and made the entire first episode a demo. Buying the game bought you two additional episodes (at first) or three (once The Ultimate Doom was out).
and then I have to check with the Ouya DRM servers before you start playing the full version of the game (better be connected to the Internet, always)
Or the game can cache the receipt locally for a month like Steam does.
Game on your damn PCs.
Let me know when PCs have a rich selection of PC games that allow multiplayer with two to four gamepads and one PC. Developers appear stuck in the desktop, one-machine-per-player mentality because selling two to four copies to a household is more lucrative than selling one.
They have their FuckMe gun on full auto and haven't let off the trigger yet.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Is piracy really that rampant on the Xbox? Seems like every time I've heard about a new hack, M$ has been quick to fix it and ban hammer those exploiting it. You can't even clone a factory HD to a bigger one and pop it in without getting busted.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
When was the last time you turned on your console - only to have to way 20 minutes to use the darn thing while it downloads and performs updates? I think Microsoft is trying to address the update issue. I think Microsoft has finally realized they are torturing their OS and XBox customers with annoying and incessant update request...
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win.
Is there a transcript of this video that I could read?
How about whining tantrums that mention a boycott in the conclusion? "And this is why none of my friends will be buying this product."
Do you return to PC gaming, but only play indie games
Bingo. Indie games and GOG.
So buy the console, then buy a game, try to play it without the Internet and return it to the store saying that it doesn't work and that you don't have an Internet connection near your console. If the return rate gets high enough, then they'll notice.
You can also look on the right side of the screen. I cannot find any examples right now, but I know I have seen it say online connection required in the same list
"Online connection required" can mean that a connection is required to play at all (the Assassin's Creed 2/Diablo 3/SimCity way), or just that a short connection is required to renew the cached receipt every few weeks (which is the typical behavior of Steam DRM and the recommended behavior of Google Play licensing). Some people complain even about the latter, especially people who were burned by defects in early versions of the Steam client that would lose the "offline mode" receipt at an inopportune time.
Microsoft Kinect Spy System
THIS ARTICLE IS BEING SCRUBBED FROM THE NET. THE SITE IT WAS ORIGINALLY POSTED TO YANKED THE PLUG ON THEIR WHOLE SITE!!! COPY/PASTE THIS ARTICLE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO DISCUSSION FORUMS, BLOGS, FACEBOOK, TWITTER, AND ARCHIVE AND MIRROR THIS DOCUMENT SO IT DOES NOT VANISH FOREVER!
"So you just got the Kinect/Xbox360 gaming system and you're having fun, hanging out in your underwear, plopped down in your favorite lounge chair, and playing games with your buddies. Yeah, it's great to have a microphone and camera in your game system so you can "Kinect" to your pals while you play, but did you read that Terms of Service Agreement that came with your Kinect thingy? No? Here, let me point out an important part of that service agreement.
If you accept the agreement, you "expressly authorize and consent to us accessing or disclosing information about you, including the content of your communications, in order to: (a) comply with the law or respond to lawful requests or legal process; (b) protect the rights or property of Microsoft, our partners, or our customers, including the enforcement of our agreements or policies governing your use of the Service; or (c) act on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers, or the public."
Did you catch that? Here, let me print the important part in really big letters.
"If you accept the agreement, you expressly authorize and consent to us accessing or disclosing information about you, including the content of your communications⦠on a good faith belief that such access or disclosure is necessary to protect the personal safety of Microsoft employees, customers, or the public."
OK, is that clear enough for ya? When you use the Kinect system, you agree to allow Microsoft (and any branch of law enforcement or government they care to share information with) to use your Kinect system to spy on you. Maybe run that facial recognition software to check you out, listen to your conversations, and keep track of who you are communicating with.
I know this is probably old news to some, but I thought I would mention it because it pertains to almost all of these home game systems that are interactive. You have to remember, the camera and microphone contained in your game system have the ability to be hacked by anyone the game company gives that ability to, and that includes government snoops and law enforcement agents.
Hey, it's MICROSOFT. What did you expect?
And the same concerns apply to all interactive game systems. Just something to think about if you're having a "Naked Wii party" or doing something illegal while you're gaming with your buddies. Or maybe you say something suspicious and it triggers the DHS software to start tracking your every word. Hey, this is not paranoia. It's spelled out for you, right there in that Service Agreement. Read it! Here's one more part of the agreement you should be aware of.
"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service."
Did you catch it that time? YOU SHOULD NOT EXPECT ANY LEVEL OF PRIVACY concerning your voice chat and video features on your Kinect box."
###
"Listen up, you ignorant sheep. Your government is spending more money than ever to spy on its own citizens. That's YOU, my friend. And if you're one of these people who say, "Well I ain't ever done nothing wrong so why should I worry about it?' - you are dead wrong. Our civil liberties are being taken away faster than you can spit. The NSA is working away on its new "First Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cyber-security Initiative Data Center' to keep track of every last one of us. This thing will be the size of 17 football stadiums. One million square feet, all to be fille
I'll just leave this here: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win.
the "new" endings to me3 are just as shitty as the old ones. just a little longer and underlining more precisely that yes, they wrote the script to be stupid(as to shut up some creative types who had came up with more sensible explanations for the last 5 minutes).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Let them do it, then a week after release spend an hour or two with a glass of wine reading about how it crashed and burned while laughing until tears run down my cheeks.
I actually stopped following consoles long ago. My last console was the PS2, I didn't buy into the PS3 hype and I never bought into the Xbox hype. I've been playing MS games since the early 90's and if the console mimicked the way pc games from MS was heading it was a direction I didn't like. FF to today and everyone cries when a console company does something to cripple the platform.
The solution is easy, simply spend your money on other things. Personally I was sick of purchasing a new console which at the time seemed like every two years one would come out. Then you had to repurchase your game library. I still use my pc for gaming on occasion but it's rare these days. You know what all my games work still, and they work well.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Create a console that only works offline for those of us who rely upon satellites or outdated copper wire for our connectivity. Because really, what triple A publisher, console manufacturer, big Telco, or senator gives a rats ass about me and my 5 neighbors when they got a town 2 miles away to please.
Now get off my land or I'll send you into the woods with Cowboy Neil.
You would think this issue would have been resolved now for most places.
It hasn't been resolved, and it probably won't without government intervention. It took what is now the Rural Utilities Service to get electric power to farms in the United States. As you wrote in your current signature: "progress is not obligatory."
A comparable product for a different audience based off what you described... Off the top of my head, a Wii U maybe
Thank you for the rational suggestion. It's just that a lot of other posters have latched onto a meme to this effect: "Stuck on a poor Internet connection? Sucks to be you. You can always try doing something other than video games." Perhaps you could give a brief suggestion: "You're probably not Microsoft's target audience. You could try the Wii U instead." Or did you avoid that for fear of being labeled a shill for Nintendo?
There is nothing wrong with the current gen consoles. Graphics look good, games still play well. If game companies are encouraged the continue making games for the current consoles due to a lack of adoption by the new consoles, then the players win.
Disagreeing with you does not make me a troll.
Holy fucking shit im sick of this. This is based off what. What some fucking blogger speculated on his blog last week (which was posted on slashdot days ago if not yesterday) which itself is based on some tweets by a guy that got fired for his tweets. Wow. Is someone going to link to this article in 2 days and talk about how the new xbox will DEFINITELY have always on DRM. This shit is ridiculous.
You can do it if you take them to small claims court, but then only maybe: your judge may still say "Nope, you knew there was SOME EULA there".
Or even one that buys into the "You must have been a pirate and want to get your money back after pirating the game".
what say we all use the PC that we all currently own?
That depends. A lot of people currently own a laptop or compact desktop whose onboard video can't easily be upgraded. A lot of people currently own a desktop PC but aren't willing to spend as much as a current-generation console for a video card. A lot of people own a PC but no PC gamepad* and aren't really into FPS, RTS, or other point-and-click games. And a lot of people are choosing to be PC-free, making a smartphone or tablet the center of their computing experience.
* My wired Xbox 360 controller works wonderfully with my PC. But it's a bit harder to get a wireless 360 controller, a PS3 controller, or a Wii controller working: you first need to buy the right wireless receiver. At least with controllers for classic consoles, you can get a USB adapter from retrousb.com.
Stop buying goddamn Xboxes, iPhones and every other products that come on the market. You don't need the latest Black Ops or Sim City. You'll live without it. End of fucking story. ....unless of course you're OK with corporations owning you. Then STFU and GTFO.
And how does not wanting Win8 require him to have bought or used it for him to not want it?
Why don't you STFU and stop talking with your mouth full of Ballmer cock?
Just wait for the hacks and mods, then decide.
There's the core market that take whatever dross is shovelled to them under a certain brand. They get sucked in to buying all the DLC even if it's just cosmetic or even maps from the last revision (no, they don't qualify as versions anymore).
There's enough mindless COD sheep to keep the new consoles going for quite a while, meaning this will not go away this coming console generation or next.
"We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over." - Aneurin Bevan
Why play with Microsoft when you can play with your friends instead!
A little over 1% of the US population make up the membership of the NRA. Love them or hate them, it's obvious that even a small group of people who unite to work for a cause can get a lot done. Something like a Fair Play Alliance, call it the FPA, would have to be organized and stage some high visibility events. Perhaps a few well places campaign donations could get some Senators and Congressmen on board. Petitions, phone campaigns, letter writing and publicity stunts would help but only if there was an organization behind them.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
How about just a second-hand Galaxy with HDMI out or something similar?
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
They come from the vote with your wallet crowd that seems to completely forget that gaming on a PC will teach Microsoft absolutely NOTHING. Even considering the fiasco that is Windows 8 Microsoft still holds the majority of PC users by the scrotum.
Have you ever tried it? It sucks. My Android widgets that grok HDMI can't even scale to the screen size properly (yay black borders!), let alone output native-resolution 1080-anything. And the audio only seems to be capable of producing stereo PCM, which meh.
Fix all that, and maybe add a useable remote control and a user interface that works properly with it, and oh yeah - we're back to Ouya.
Kid-proof tablet..
Many people are ok with Steam DRM, I'm one of them, but don't be disingenuous and claim there isn't DRM. There is and it is required.
Weird, playing Serious Sam Second Encounter works just fine without steam running (checked with taskmanager and dependency walker). While the original release predates most forms of modern DRM, the steam release doesn't seem to use any either. So that would be a no to the required part.
"Oh, that's right, they don't say, do they."
From you: "Burble"
"They don't say if it has third-party DRM either."
From you: "Burble"
"And to install you HAVE to connect to their service"
From you: "So you're upset that you have to be on the internet to download the game"
I have this thing called "A DVD Drive". Try it some time.
"Upates? Have to connect"
From you: "and updates?"
I have this thing called "A storage device". I can download ONCE that patch and reapply once or multiple times wthout havng to connect anything at that point to the internet.
"the Steam client demands you log on to update IT."
From you: "Burble".
Really, you need to update your prescription. 60% ignored, 40% not needed. 100% fail
They're just a diversion, one of many available to you. If it's getting that frustrating, why not put your money toward a bike or a nice camera and rediscover the things people used to do before Internet and vidya.
Sony's new console is actually almost TWICE as powerful as Microsoft's Xbox720, and one of the reasons for this is truly shocking. Games running on the PS4 can use almost 100% of available memory, CPU and GPU resources. On the 720, no third party app can use more than 2/3 of the RAM or CPU cores, because Microsoft sets aside approaching 1/3 of the hardware for its exclusive, 'always-on' use.
The 720 includes very high resolution cameras and mike arrays that can frequently detect conversations in adjoining rooms. These peripherals must ALWAYS be connected and active for the 720 to run any game. Microsoft permanently uses multiple CPU cores to run sophisticated DSP algorithms on the outputs of these peripherals. A very tiny number of games will, of course, take advantage of video and positional information, but these features are always active regardless of the game's need.
Microsoft is banking on the fact that most people will leave the cameras pointing at the entire room. At any time, Microsoft is able to remotely activate streaming from the mike-array and cameras to any other location on the Internet. Recall how Team Obama has granted itself massive spying powers with no legal oversight whatsoever. Things like the Inland Revenue being able to spy on any citizen without even the sniff of a warrant? Well, Microsoft is moving State spying on citizens to a whole new level. The 720 is 'Google Glass' permanently in your living room or kids bedroom. Unlike a laptop, Microsoft DEMANDS the console is never switched off, and that the camera is ALWAYS active and pointing at the entire room.
Now dribbling shills will scream (after modding this post to -1) that you can always tape over the camera (the mike-array is more difficult to trivially deal with, of course). This is the usual cretinous observation. You can, of course, simply not buy a 720 in the first place (and the Sony PS4 is cheaper, and has vastly better hardware anyway). That isn't the point. Trained, informed people can always protect themselves from casual infringement of their privacy. Microsoft is NOT aiming at them. No, Microsoft is offering the State a '1984' like service that targets the vast majority of ordinary people. Microsoft knows that even if people try to cover the camera when not in use at first, they'll soon stop bothering, and just forget about the issue.
Microsoft is a very dumb company, and pleasing the NSA is not the same as pleasing its true customer base. The 720 offers realtime streaming to 'friends' when playing games. How soon before the press starts to fill with stories about young children endless caught on video undressing in their bedrooms because they forgot to switch off the game. However, we should remember that when a pervert at an American school installed video-cam spy software on all the school laptops lent lent to students, and used this software to record multiple students in a state of undress in their bedrooms, Team Obama declared that no offence had been committed. You see, if it is illegal for one State employed official to spy on you or your kids, that may well set a legal precedent.
Everyone should help make Microsoft's 720 the greatest disaster in console history. Sony may have been scum-bags in the past, but at least they were old fashioned greedy capitalists with a "screw the customer" attitude. Unlike Microsoft, Sony never seeks to be an extension of the NSA in your home or office. Now Sony is on the ropes, they have actually made every effort to offer the consumer the most perfect console ever designed, a product made purely to meet the needs of the end-user, and thus the game developers.
Sony's past crimes are easy to forgive, when one considers the current crimes of Microsoft.
Better games, better graphics, no "always online", cheaper than console gaming, and best of all - you don't need to buy another PC for work, because you already own one.
So I repeat - be smart, play on PC :)
the ps3 and xbox360 have been dead in the water for years now. the new console are just a attempt to stay alive handhelds and the tablet market has dommanted them and including junk like always on drm is not the step you take to prevent your own demise even sony knows this. in other words i care less bought 720 or ps4.bt even with the ps4 its a attempt to make the vita revlent because they cant get games on that system for some reason.
This is just more rumor mill junk! Reads like a hit piece put out by a competitor. Do none of you remember when games on the Sony platform broke because they were hacked and PSN was taken down?
http://www.1up.com/news/capcom-always-online-psn-drm-decided-case-by-case
http://www.ps3trophies.org/forum/announcements/39949-read-psn-service-down-some-titles-unplayable.html
-]Phreak Out[-
Just buy a fucking PS4. Why the fuck would I buy an Ouya instead of an Xbox 720?
Hilarious false dichotomy in the summary.
This is my biggest issue with this sort of thing; I still have my original Nintendo Entertainment System from 1985. I am an avid fan of retro gaming. What if, in 30 years, I still have an XBox 720? Is Microsoft going to guarantee lifetime online authentication for this console? When/if the servers go offline, it's time to throw it in the trash? This is a piece of hardware that I would be paying for, and should be able to enjoy it for 50+ years, pass it down, whatever.
"True refinement seeks simplicity."
"I really don't like it but I may roll over eventually and join the herd because I could get used to it."
Rape is rape. Anyone that tries to fool themselves into thinking this is something they can get used to can and will get EXACTLY WHAT THEY DESERVE. If you got half a brain or more, vote with your money and DO NOT BUY THIS GARBAGE FROM MICROSUCKS.
If I see you on the street smiling and spreading your cheeks, I'll know who you are.
will be the next nail in Microsoft's coffin.
Man in the middle attack on the cable connecting dvd/blue ray drive to system, enables play of burnt games and cant be detected by system.
If I'm ever angry at the state of gaming DRM, I pull the latest version of DOSBox, rummage through my old catalog of CD-ROMs, install me some Tie Fighter and call it a day.
You can keep your SimCity 5, dagnabbit. I'll take my Tau Squadron Assault Gunboat every time.
Where are all the Sony fanboys? Sony has explicitly stated always-on connectivity isn't necessary for the PS4, nor is it their biggest concern. They may enjoy their fair share of walled gardens, but at least they respond well to what we as consumers actually want.
... I am still buying long-since-forgotten games for PlayStation, Saturn and Nintendo 64 and play them on the original consoles hooked up to a CRT television set? And find infinitely more joy playing those games compared to any modern game?
I know it's not a huge percentage, but there are a lot of people on oil rigs, military deployed overseas, South American deep space telescope crews, etc. for whom "always on" is not an option. I'm retired now, but from my most recent deployment (about 6 years ago) video games are a HUGE part of off duty recreation when locked aboard the floating steel prison for months on end.
I get why the game makers want you connected, and I see the value. What I really don't understand is the mandatory "always on" part. I have an Xbox 360 and I connect to Xbox live virtually all the time when playing. The features are worth it. But at the same time, I want to be able to play when my ISP decides to flake out for a few hours on Saturday evening. And if I still went on the ship, I would want to be able to take my games with me.
I won't buy always-on DRM in whatever form it takes - PC games or consoles - and I'll make sure that my kids understand what's bad about it and teach them to teach other kids as well.
That's the most important thing about all this: Make sure kids understand what's bad about DRM and understand the difference between owning and being able to use what you pay for and not so that they can make good decisions about purchases.
If MS want to shoot themselves in the foot again..
I wonder how many feet they still have left.
So the new XBOX has a 3D video camera built in to it and it requires constant internet connection. Does this bother anyone else? Even if you aren't paranoid about a deliberate plan for in home surveillance you must admit the potential for abuse.
Employees at Microsoft could potentially monitor video streams. The kinect has always been creepy. It also can't be secure. Even if there is never an inside job there is potential that some exploit could be found. Hackers around the world could be tapping in to the live feed off the camera in your living room that is always on.
Don't dare say that this is difficult or compare it to a laptop with a built-in webcam without looking at this post here:
https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2013/01/24/weekly-update
I have a Roku box attached to my TV. It is always on and always connected. Since I got the box, I have thought this dangerous. (but I leave it on . . .)
"Is the upcoming Steam box a reasonable plan?"
Um, you mean a supposed console from *THE* company who has done more to promote and force acceptance of DRM to the masses than any other?
What video game crash? Unless you are referring to arcade games, video gaming is more lucrative and ubiquitous than ever.
Well it worked so well for the new SimCity... Oh wait...
Sony's shills sure have been working overtime spreading FUD on the xbox.
If not large chunks of markets will be unconnected and if it does work large security complexity results.
One /.er commented the only on an isolated subnet....
OK sure but my home router/NAT box does not even begin to address
this level of complexity.
Yes I could build a firewall with a multi homed computer but not for the sub ten watt power budget and less than $100 budget I think should apply here. There are some SOC devices out there that support a single GigE link but not the five that I would like.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
The mobile is clearly a console, but not in the UNIX sense, because the mobile doesn't typically have "console commands". The mobile is always on, when not in sleep mode. It is only shut down when the battery goes to zero, or when the shut down button is pressed. Perhaps the question needs to be reworded to eliminate mobiles from the discussion.
so the whole rrod failure rate was staged so people aren't as inconvenienced by always-on
no one will notice.
if my internet's down?
I have the previous XBox, but I did not buy this one. Yeah, sux to not be able to play the latest games, but on the other hand too many devices are using my internet connection for stuff I do not care. And guess who is paying the bill for the internet connection? I pay the bill not the companies who are interested in downloading info regarding my behavior to later target their adds. When they will pay for the bandwidth they are taking then and ONLY then I would rethink the decision to buy any more devices like these. So no more tracking devices in my home, I have enough already.
I'd recommend the 3DS (XL if you're inclined towards a much bigger screen, 90%). It's portable. It's got a great selection of games. The console and games are cheaper. You can connect with friends for multiplayer. Last I checked, it is the best selling console on the market?
It just seems to me, handhelds are the future of consoles anyway.
Do all USB Bluetooth receivers for PC work with PS3 and Wii controllers, or does one need a specific chipset? I'm trying to figure out what to recommend, but I don't currently have the money to buy every make and model. I seem to remember that back in the DS era, communication between a PC and a hacked DS needed a Wi-Fi card with a specific Ralink chipset. As for mobile, Android 4.2's changes to the Bluetooth stack appear to have broken communication with Wii Remotes (and, for a few months, PS3 controllers). Some Android devices don't support the part of Bluetooth used by the Wii Remote at all.
I don't know, check the specs of the receiver against the controller, i'm sure some basic searching will enable you to find similar details about the ps3 controller, or connecting it and debugging it yourself to identify the details.
...but open.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
...only if you fix all that first.
Kid-proof tablet..