Domain: gamasutra.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to gamasutra.com.
Comments · 776
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Re:Dude...The 360 is 400 without a game. So, this generation isn't the same as it was with the 3DO. The only system that cost that much back then was the 3DO and ALL the other big players at the time were around 200. The playing field is more spread out this time if not flipped completely. Considering that two of the three consoles are over 300 would indicate that this is more like the opposite situation that happened with the 3DO.
Heck, add on the HD-DVD option and the wireless adaptor option to a premium XBox 360 in order to match it up against the PS3 feature for feature and the price of the 360 is 700. So, while back in the days of the 3DO there was one system which was very very expensive and today you've got the majority of the systems being expensive.
Check Best Buy and Amazon or GameStop or EBGames to check the pricing. The 360 and PS3 titles are 60 (except for some 360 games at 70) and the Wii titles are 50. It doesn't matter what speculation was made, it matters what the prices actually are and here in the US, they're 60 for PS3 titles.
"Generally speaking, over the past twelve years or so, there has been a consumer expectation that disc based games are maybe $59 on the high end to $39 on the low end. So, what I can say now is, I think it would be a bit of a stretch to think that we could suddenly turn around and say 'PS3 games now $99.99'."
From Kaz Hirai. So, where did he say that games were going to be that expensive? It doesn't come across that way in that interview. Seems that your understanding of the quote might have been wrong. It is a rumor, seemingly based upon that interview. Unless, of course, you have a link to Kaz making the statement you claim he made.
None of this changes the fact that Sony is not duplicating the behavior of failed past systems as proposed by the AC that I originally responded to. -
Re:"Price Cut", that sounds nice doesn't it...
The price drop if (and I mean IF!!) it occurs across all countries would make the PS3 basic (with HDMI) a very attractive machine. Now before I get flamed lets look are the announcement.
The 20GB version will cost 49,980 yen (EUR 335 / GBP 225), down from 62,790 yen (EUR 421 / GBP 283), Kutaragi said.
Now doing some currency calculations (I live in Australia) and the above translates to AU$570.00 and adding 10% GST and most likely some other tariffs (assume 30% overall - a ripoff I know) then the retail price in Australia is approx AU$741.00 . Now this is not bad considering the original PS2 retailed at AU$730.00 and was highly successful.
Many organisations seem think the build costs of the PS3 is anything from US$700 to US800 however Sony is not talking and why should they. It is easy to cost an item if you do know what the manufacturer charges but it is not so easy when you try to put a manufactures cost on the item. If you control the process and Sony does, then the overall manufacturing cost to you is fairly small. If you have looked at an electronics manufacturing plant it is very difficult for an outsider to guess manufacturing costs correctly.
Try guessing costs for the Cell Chip and this gets so much harder, however I do know that the new generation machines use Silicon on Insulator (SOI) which currently costs about US$1200 per 300mm diameter wafer, however this will come down dramatically with volume usage. An educated guess at about 20% to 30% yield brings the Cell Chip manufacture cost from US$30 to US$18, even this is a guess because I don't know what the processing cost of actually creating the Cell Chips on the wafer are. You also have to remember that the Cell Chip is jointly developed by IBM, Sony and Toshiba who all have vested interests in making this chip profitable and these people do control the manufacturing process.
Now what is the overall cost of the BluRay player to the manufacture? again unless you actually know the costs you can only guess. Assume SOI again and a 4 square mm laser and assuming a 40% yield and an overall processing cost of 100% on each SOI wafer and you get approx US$0.40, now how much to actually make the mechanics? Well if DVD's are anything to go by then assume say 100% more expensive then you get a US$40 to US$60 cost.
If anyone has better figures (not hearsay from journalists who most likely don't even know what a resistor is) please publish them.
Before I hear about "Console makers make a loss on their consoles", that is an Urban Myth since Nintendo and Sony (maybe initially) did not make a loss on the Gamecube, PS1 or PS2. The only company that has done this is Microsoft (approx US$4B to date) with their Xbox. I am not sure of the Xbox 360 loss since reports are contradictory but take a look at the following URL:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9085
The only new machine Australia is going to see this year is the Wii and that will sell for AU$400 (US$301) which IMHO will sell well but I don't see the price of the games being that much different than the Xbox 360's (can't compare the PS3 yet) if the previous game prices are anything to go by. In fact I have found the Nintendo Gamecube games don't drop as much over time as the other console games.
Still games are a personal choice and while the majority of games will be ported to each console, the choice of a particular console will allow you to play that consoles exclusive games. -
Shoddy analysis from a "hard core" gamer
Thank god this guy is only a grad student and not actually designing games.
He's seriously advocating that it's reasonable that if you fail at a risk in the game, the game should become harder. A valid idea for some short-length games, like a PvP game of Quake or Starcraft, but insane for longer and especially single player games. That sort of stupid game design is why many people bounce on the quick save key every five minutes. To take the most common example, mainstream first person shooter design. "Oh, you easily blew through the level with lots of ammo and health left over? Okay, as a reward you start the next, harder level with all that ammo and health. Oh, you barely scraped through with almost not ammo or health? As punishment you advance to the next, harder level at death's door." Punish the less skilled players, reward the more skilled ones. In practice this means less skilled players rely on saves and restores, effectively changing it into the time tradeoff the author so dislikes. If you really want to go this route you need to take control of saving away from the player. When you do you change the price of failure for a weaker player from "wasted time reloading" to "restarting the game from scratch because I can't compensate for my earlier failure." There is a market for such games (see Diablo II in hardcore mode, or Nethack), but it's a small, small market. If you want to only discuss game design for hard core players, so be it, but say so up front; don't pretend you're making general statements.
The author then dismisses having to replay sections of the game as "not really risk." The air get thin in your ivory tower? Doesn't he get frustrated and angry when he fails at something in a game? There is emotional risk, perhaps the strongest connection any game developer gets to a player. The player is also risking time. Money is apparently a "real" risk in the author's mind, but he forgotten the old cliche: time is money. If someone has to replay an hour of game content, even for people making minimum wage that amounts to a $5.70 financial penalty. Add in the opportunity cost of something more fun the player could be doing instead and even just about any player is paying a large fine for failure.
In addition, replaying sections of the game isn't just punishment. In many (admitted, not all), replaying a section you failed is practice. The author bashs Ico. Yes, you only get one path at a time in Ico, you're forced to replay a section until you beat it. Those failed attempts are called "practice." Indeed, it's far better than directly charging me money for each attempt, or making the game harder as punishment. When I fail the practice improves my skills in general, improving my odds in later sections.
So what solution does the author offer? "Write huge amounts of content, let the skilled players blow through it quickly and not see most of it, and let the weaker players soak it all in and
." A nice idea in theory, but for most games not practical. This means you'll need to vastly increase your budget to support all this content. You'll then have the skilled players (which include many professional reviewers) either blow through it quickly and complain there wasn't much content for their money, or play it slowly and complain it's too easy. Either way you get bad reviews.Ultimately he's suggesting, "Now that your time's a wager that whole system becomes a lot more fun." The exact same thing he dismissed as irrelevant on page 1 is suddenly great. He's still talking about punishing weaker players by costing them time (which is still money). Perhaps all the additional content will make that additional time actively entertaining. In that case, won't the skilled players be frustrated at missing all that entertaining content, or be frustrated that to see all the entertaining content they need to engage in dull gamep
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Re:wait... why?
Vista is going to support cross-platform play with Live Anywhere.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9369 -
Re:The 3 Colbert's of Sony
They already have caved. SCEA's Kaz Hirai has said that "I don't think consumers expect software pricing to suddenly double.
... So, if it becomes a bit higher than $59, don't ding me, but, again, I don't expect it to be $100."So, yeah, we're looking at $70-$100 games for the PS3.
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Games are going parallel
Coincidentally, Gamasutra just two nice feature articles on rearchitecting the game engine flow to better parallelize the tasks so that multi-core can be taken advantage of, utilizing OpenMP
"Multithreaded Game Engine Architectures "
http://gamasutra.com/features/20060906/monkkonen_0 1.shtml
"Multi-Threaded Terrain Smoothing"
http://gamasutra.com/features/20060531/gruen_02.sh tml -
Games are going parallel
Coincidentally, Gamasutra just two nice feature articles on rearchitecting the game engine flow to better parallelize the tasks so that multi-core can be taken advantage of, utilizing OpenMP
"Multithreaded Game Engine Architectures "
http://gamasutra.com/features/20060906/monkkonen_0 1.shtml
"Multi-Threaded Terrain Smoothing"
http://gamasutra.com/features/20060531/gruen_02.sh tml -
Re:I dunno...
Yep, I would think that doubleing the sales of Xbox360 is achievable goal. Unfortunately for Microsoft that would mean increase of weekly sales (first week of September) from 1250 to 2500 units. Trailing behind of 229k DS, 27k PSP and 22k PS2. Sad reality is that Xbox 360 sells in thousands when everythink else sells in tens or hundreds of thousands. In other words PS3 selling 100k in Japan means that there are about same amount of PS3 units in the market as there are Xbox360. And that is just the situation right after launch.
My point is that regardless of price the Xbox360 offering seems to be particularly uncool for Japan, shown by the figures above. I doubt that consumers will grab Xbox360 even if there is no way to get the next gen console. More likely event is that the consumer will get the PS2 instead, which sells 10x more than Xbox360 even now.
Some more info: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=10796/ -
Re:Pinch Those Pennies! Ouch!
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Re:A viable alternativeFirst, I didn't say Civ was a RTS. To quote from the article: "Overclick isn't limited to Civilization. Real-time strategy games will leave you with even worse carpal tunnel."
Second, the sections called "Objects don't have to be objects" and "On-line vs. off-line control" present what I think are some viable alternatives.
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Re:A viable alternativeFirst, I didn't say Civ was a RTS. To quote from the article: "Overclick isn't limited to Civilization. Real-time strategy games will leave you with even worse carpal tunnel."
Second, the sections called "Objects don't have to be objects" and "On-line vs. off-line control" present what I think are some viable alternatives.
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Re:Um, Steam?
Steam is actually not particularly great, business-wise, for indies.
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Re:Give Me!
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?s
t ory=9290 As much as people seem to not believe it, it really looks like Linux/PS3 homebrew is going to happen, with LESS restricions that Mircosoft's psuedo homebrew effort. -
Article summary inaccurate
As referenced by a gamasutra article, this is not a new policy on walmart's part. In fact, they have many other games available for pre-order that have ratings pending. Bully was made an example of, most likely because of the lawsuit. The point is that walmart is accepting preorders for unrated games, but the article summary fails to point out this crucial point that actually makes the issue a controversy...
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Re:Just a black iPod
It wasn't Microsoft, it was Bizarre Creations, as they own Geometry Wars. Microsoft have/had nothing to do with it.
You can read the article and press release here. -
Linux-Homebrew will be the point
Did someone think about the advantage the Linux-Homebrew-Community will give the PS3 against the XBox360? Every PS3 will arrive with Linux on its Harddisk and Sony will allow Homebrew on it:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9290
If this would be true, many Linux-Freaks will push the PS3 to the limits, and even the normal User will profit from this. I think that Linux will help the PS3 to rule the Next-Gen-Market and the PS3 will help Linux to solve the prejudices that many non-Linux-Users have thanks bad hearsay. Linux on the PS3 will by a win-win for both.
I welcome the PS3-Overlords that bring me my Mythtv-Mame-Frontend for the Livingroom. -
Re:next step
If you read the article a little closer, you will see that GarageGames has made a version of Torque that is compatible with XNA Game Studio.
Please see this reference for details: GarageGames Announces Torque X For XNA -
Re:Microsoft Can't Be Serious
Nope, you're completely wrong. It's a 'desktop' Linux distribution with compilers etc. - the whole idea is to encourage software development on Cell.
See:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9290 -
Re:Microsoft Can't Be Serious
In comments made to Japanese game website Impress Watch, and translated by GameSetWatch contributor Shou Suzuki, Kawanishi noted: "Because we have plans for having Linux on board [the PS3], we also recognize Linux programming activities... Other than game studios tied to official developer licenses, we'd like to see various individuals participate in content creation for the PS3."
It seems that Sony is happy to let basic application and game construction take place without access to the extremely sophisticated rendering and physics libraries available to licensors - Kawanishi further commented: "When a game studio enacts development on a PS3 by entering a license contract, SDK libraries... will be presented, and various technical support given. In contrast, when using Linux World on the PS3... support will fall to the lowest level required, and you must solve and work on things by yourselves."
Gamasutra
So, Sony has never once said you would be able to, except when they did. -
Re:Killer Feature
It's interesting that you considered this to be a fault of the playstation line.
The Playstation line has always had it's own "developer's club" in the form of the netyaroze and linux kits that they provided for the PS1/PS2. It wasn't perfect, but it was there and one of the first for a /major console/ of its kind. The PSP is the only Playstation console that has not had some form of officially sanctioned homebrew enabling feature. Perhaps it's because they lose more on the hardware that they decided not to release any homebrew development package, that's just my speculation. the PSP homebrew scene is larger because even though many dont wish to admit it, but there is a higher significant portion of the DS community that is younger, or simply don't care or know what homebrew is, and don't know where to find the required additional equipment. Homebrew on the PSP is relatively much easier, since all that's required is firmware under 2.71 [basically any PSP created before ~June] and maybe a copy of the widely available GTA:LCS.
Given the release of rumors regarding potential homebrew "support" on the ps3 out of the box http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?st ory=9290 and plans to build their version of XBLA based on user submitted content, this press release by Microsoft seems to be in response to that.
Some features of the xbox360 seems to be in response to Sony's announced features: HDDVD add-on, tacked-on backwards compatibility, motion sensitive camera, homebrew efforts, etc... Just as many features of the PS3 seem to be tacked on in response to MS and Nintendo: motion sensitive controllers, first party wireless controllers, hard drive included, free internet community, real anti-aliasing. Even the Wii has a few features that were borrowed: DVD playback, backwards compatibility, sleeker formfactor, free internet community, downloadable games. All this is to say that this is a prime case of where competition is totally benefitting consumers. The more each company "borrows" from the competition's features, the more each company will have to innovate and release intriguing software if they wish to stay relevent and not lose marketshare. It seems like this is the generation where we as the consumers finally benefit from the three way competition. -
Re:The conference in question hasn't happened yet.
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Re:Wtf? "the lackluster stable of games"?!The metacritic reviews are so high because expectations for PSP games are set so low. It's not an opinion, actual sales numbers bear it out. Likewise, the DS Lite outsold both the PSP and the PS2 in June. Gamers like the DS Lite more than the PSP, with reason: it's a hundred dollars cheaper, has double the battery life, and has the best games. The PSP is great if you want to pay an extra hundred dollars (for memory) to turn it into a media player, or better yet to spend twenty bucks each for movies you already own.
For games (why else do you buy a gaming device) you can play Lumines, Katamari, or any of a half-dozen racing games. The DS Lite is better if you want to play anything else.
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Re:Yes.
See the classic X Wing vs TIE Fighter analysis on Gamasutra for an example of developers learning the slow, painful way about this. They settled on resending duplicates.
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Ho ho ho-lee crap
Those are a lot of patents. Including some that I swear would be covered by the Immersion patents Sony and Microsoft have been successfully sued over, patents for 'tactile feedback' and 'vibrating' having been apparently upheld in court. Hey, as long as we have this many charges, can we throw RICO in there for flavor?
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Quick link to the interview
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Re:Problem With US in General
Which is why I said nearly all. Other videogame laws have been proposed on local, state or national levels by Joe Baca, Leland Yee, Rod Blagojevich, and Roy Burrell just to name the few laws I can remember. Then there are people like Joe Lieberman and Hillary Clinton who have both threatened to propose videogame violence laws.
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Re:Fantasy not imaginative
"You know, you have a turn of phrase every so often that I know you know is intentional... I know that you know exactly what I mean... By your definition any music that doesn't use a classical symphony orchestra is indistinguishable one from the other... All music using drums and base IS THE SAME -- (no matter how wildly different it really is, but hey, it's your view of things) and "at the end of the day" since it's "all the same" it can't be good. Your girlfriend was "enthralled" by something you viewed from a distance with distaste"
It's unfortunate that you choose to make a discussion an attack on a person, especially when you have no idea who that person is or the contents of their music collection and bookshelf. I supposed I have been drawn in by a "flame". (and I don't mean a beau or heart-throb)
"to condemn entire genres, indeed, entire art forms"
I condemned the genre's name, a word which means "The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy", when that genre has become uncreative and choked with preconceived characters and scenarios. I suggested they start using a different word or phrase for this genre. The genre is not without merits, but it is not creative. Lots of staid, predictable things in life retain some merit.
You seem prone to making broad assumptions based on things which aren't said. What if you read my post this way: I said I played Diablo, Dungeon Seige, even DnD... if I hated the genre so much, why would I waste my money on the software/books, and why would I waste my leisure time on them? If you took the time to look at things from a different point of view, perhaps there were different assumptions you could have drawn from my words.
Speaking of the meaning of words, since when is "enthralled" a negative, contemptuous word?
"All music using drums and base IS THE SAME -- (no matter how wildly different it really is, but hey, it's your view of things)"
My view of things is that someone who is deeply immersed in something (such as a genre) can become so focused that they see broad differentiation where the average or casual observer sees only relatively minor variations. Sometimes people focused like that are unable to pull back to see the forest because they are paying such close attention to the differences in conifers. Producing minor variations is not being creative. Being aware of the big picture (and any flaws it exposes) does not mean being unable to appreciate the minor variations and sub-species, er, sub-genres. Yes, Black Sabbath and Nirvana produce very different songs, but in the big picture, they are the same: guitar, bass, drums, distortion pedal, and undeniably mediocre vocal performances. (btw, Geezer Butler certainly smacks his bass, and if you have ever seen Bill Ward or Dave Grohl drum, it is obvious they are bashers - jeez, Grohl beat the living daylights out of my friend's drum kit and completely wrecked a new set of skins in less than an hour, back around 1989-90).
"Your method of plucking out a bit of similarity here and there... I'm not familiar with the "Warhammer" .jpg you linked"
The jpg came from the article, for pete's sake. If you look at the photos I think it is indisputable that the similarities are remarkable. The WoW link was only two clicks deep. I mentioned before I didn't have to make any effort to find these similarities. This stuff is upfront, common genre content. I'm not plucking anything - a point I was trying to make was that the dwarf thing is just one example of the broad similarities within the genre; there are countless others, indeed including plots. Yes, minute similarities can be found between two of any piece of fiction, but that is not my point. -
Re:Fantasy not imaginative
"Diablo isn't WoW isn't FFXI and so forth -- they aren't at all similar; your comment that fantasy constitutes nothing more than "Olde Tyme Wizard's Worlde" is incorrect at best, slightly flamish at worst.
In what way do you find the aforementioned dissimiliar games "terribly predictable"? These games are very different one from the other, and hardly fit the "Ye Olde Wizarde" paradigm."
I have played Diablo, never Wow or FFXI. I have played Dungeon Seige. Admittedly, I got bored with both Diablo and Dungeon Seige and never completed them. I played DnD as a child and I'm familiar with Tolkien. A girlfriend years ago was enthralled by fantasy fiction and I read a bit of her collection. I'm sure I've been exposed to Fantasy work on other occasions.
To someone who is a fan with broad exposure, there is surely a huge difference between the different games, books, movies, etc. To someone who is a passive fan or less, the differences are not so apparent. The same goes for anything; hockey teams, NASCAR drivers, speaker cable, techno music: some kid's mom might not be able to tell the difference between Black Sabbath and Nirvana, while maybe the kid thinks they are polar opposites of each other - Kurt Cobain and Tony Iommi the same? That's crazy-talk mom! At the end of the day, both bands bash drums, smack a bass, turn up the fuzzy guitar and moan about their problems.
Yes, the Fantasy Worlde contains a lot of product I have never experienced, but the samples I have indulged in or just glanced at have been very similar. If my memory serves me well, Diablo has some sort of walking skeleton/zombie hordes. Guess what: so does Dungeon Seige. If I dug out my olde DnD book I suspect there might be something similar in there. Dragons, taverns with ale in steins, pointy armoured hats with horns, thatched roofed houses... yes there are dissimilar elements in every product, but there are broad similarities for the casual fan or casual observer.
Take the pointy hat guy for example. I would say that guy and Gimli from LoTR are the same and predictable. Gee, look: WoW has similar stuff. Maybe others would call me crazy and point out the scores of differences - ooo, one uses a hammer and the other uses an axe... but come on; they're all short, stocky, there's lots of facial hair with braids even... predictable. I'm not even trying: this stuff is falling in my lap.
"If you feel that you have an idea for a great scifi game that will *also* be attractive to tens of millions - or even several million - people, you'll get an eager reception by a gaming company; that is, if you can create the game and make it both workable and appealing."
This is the fallacy which those refuting criticism of something they favour sometimes fall back on, the "if you don't like it, then why don't you do better?" thing. I'm not a game designer. It's not my job to design games. I can't cook, but that doesn't mean I can't say a restaurant serves crappy food. I can't kick a ball, but I have opinions about how England played in the World Cup. Where is the sense in expecting me to start working out with the squad just so I can earn the right to say they stank? That's ludicrous.
It's no different when I say Fantasy genre product is uncreative and hardly based in fantasy at all.
"For the large corporations creating the games, it comes down to market research and dollars. Don't think for a minute that they would hesitate to spend millions upon millions to craft new ideas if their research indicated that those ideas would be viable and make them money."
First of all, are you agreeing with me or disagre -
Re:Fantasy not imaginative
"Diablo isn't WoW isn't FFXI and so forth -- they aren't at all similar; your comment that fantasy constitutes nothing more than "Olde Tyme Wizard's Worlde" is incorrect at best, slightly flamish at worst.
In what way do you find the aforementioned dissimiliar games "terribly predictable"? These games are very different one from the other, and hardly fit the "Ye Olde Wizarde" paradigm."
I have played Diablo, never Wow or FFXI. I have played Dungeon Seige. Admittedly, I got bored with both Diablo and Dungeon Seige and never completed them. I played DnD as a child and I'm familiar with Tolkien. A girlfriend years ago was enthralled by fantasy fiction and I read a bit of her collection. I'm sure I've been exposed to Fantasy work on other occasions.
To someone who is a fan with broad exposure, there is surely a huge difference between the different games, books, movies, etc. To someone who is a passive fan or less, the differences are not so apparent. The same goes for anything; hockey teams, NASCAR drivers, speaker cable, techno music: some kid's mom might not be able to tell the difference between Black Sabbath and Nirvana, while maybe the kid thinks they are polar opposites of each other - Kurt Cobain and Tony Iommi the same? That's crazy-talk mom! At the end of the day, both bands bash drums, smack a bass, turn up the fuzzy guitar and moan about their problems.
Yes, the Fantasy Worlde contains a lot of product I have never experienced, but the samples I have indulged in or just glanced at have been very similar. If my memory serves me well, Diablo has some sort of walking skeleton/zombie hordes. Guess what: so does Dungeon Seige. If I dug out my olde DnD book I suspect there might be something similar in there. Dragons, taverns with ale in steins, pointy armoured hats with horns, thatched roofed houses... yes there are dissimilar elements in every product, but there are broad similarities for the casual fan or casual observer.
Take the pointy hat guy for example. I would say that guy and Gimli from LoTR are the same and predictable. Gee, look: WoW has similar stuff. Maybe others would call me crazy and point out the scores of differences - ooo, one uses a hammer and the other uses an axe... but come on; they're all short, stocky, there's lots of facial hair with braids even... predictable. I'm not even trying: this stuff is falling in my lap.
"If you feel that you have an idea for a great scifi game that will *also* be attractive to tens of millions - or even several million - people, you'll get an eager reception by a gaming company; that is, if you can create the game and make it both workable and appealing."
This is the fallacy which those refuting criticism of something they favour sometimes fall back on, the "if you don't like it, then why don't you do better?" thing. I'm not a game designer. It's not my job to design games. I can't cook, but that doesn't mean I can't say a restaurant serves crappy food. I can't kick a ball, but I have opinions about how England played in the World Cup. Where is the sense in expecting me to start working out with the squad just so I can earn the right to say they stank? That's ludicrous.
It's no different when I say Fantasy genre product is uncreative and hardly based in fantasy at all.
"For the large corporations creating the games, it comes down to market research and dollars. Don't think for a minute that they would hesitate to spend millions upon millions to craft new ideas if their research indicated that those ideas would be viable and make them money."
First of all, are you agreeing with me or disagre -
Re:Except, Xbox360 not profitable
Sony and Nintendo understand how the game industry works.
And yet, Sony's game division once again posted a loss last quarter .
Have a nice day! -
Re:Don't do the math
Well the PS2 launched at the same price as the PS1: $300. In addition to that the PS2's only competition was the hanging by a thread Sega Dreamcast, which was following up one of the worst selling consoles in their history. MS wasn't even on the radar during the PS2 launch, and neither was Nintendo. PS2's only competition was the Dreamcast, a great console but poorly marketed, with little to no 3rd party support and following up one of the WORST selling consoles of the previous generation. Again again the PS2 wasn't expensive. It was the same price their previous console launched at, it wasn't surprising at all.
The PS3 doesn't have a market in their favor this time. Towards the end of the Xbox 1's life it was selling just as many units as the PS2 on a day to day basis, hardly a comparison to the brow-beating the Saturn got in comparison to the PS1.
As for the PS2 outselling the 360... need I remind you that the PS1 outsold the PS2 for the first year of the PS2's life, uptake on expensive new consoles is slow and it's expected that last gen consoles will still sell very well into the start of the following generation. I think it's actually impressive that the 360 is selling ALMOST AS MANY units As the PS2 considering it's more then twice the price.
I'd have to disagree, the PS2 launched with one non-competitor (the dreamcast) and 2 distant non-competitors (the unproven Xbox from that crap company MS and Nintendo's un-inventive Gamecube). The PS3 by comparison has a very serious competitor with a head start in the (Xbox 360) and they also have another very serious contender with the Nintendo Wii... -
No, probably notDid you read the article?
Figures from Nintendo claim that combined sales of both Nintendo DS hardware iterations amounted to just under 600,000 in June - a figure with which NPD's estimates of 593,000 agree... NPD has also revealed a figure of 277,000 unit sales for the Xbox 360 - above previous estimates, but still below the PlayStation 2 total of 312,000 units.
It may be everyone who wants a 360 can now afford one. But apparently not all that many people want 360s. Even now that they're all available, the 360 this month sold less than the PS2 and less than half the rate of the DS.
Now, of course, we're talking about software sales here, and of course all those people buying 360s will want to get games to go with it. But that's also true of the people buying new PS2s and DSes. Meanwhile if we look at the second gamasutra story, the one with the game sales numbers, we seeWedbush analyst Michael Pachter commented: "We had expected next generation (360, PSP, DS) software sales to total $120 million, so the $158 million sales figure was much better than our forecast. In particular, sales of Xbox 360 software were much better than we expected, increasing sequentially from $47 million to $66 million in June. Current generation (PS2, Xbox, GC, GBA) software sales were also better than expected at $287 million, compared with our estimate of $250 million."
So, the PSP and DS system-unit sales sum to nearly 3 times as much as the 360 sold, and the 360 was able to sell $66 million worth of software to the PSP and DS's $100 million. (This doesn't mean the same proportion of game-units were sold, though, since 360 games tend to cost sometimes up to $60, whereas DS and PSP games are cheaper). The $66 million in software sales isn't all that impressive-- this means, if I'm reading these numbers right ((78 + 158 + 287)/66) that the XBox 360 comprised a mere eight percent (8%) of software sales. Even if we assume that all of that is market growth (that is, we have to assume, probably falsely, that the 8% is entirely new sales and not just sales to people that, had there been no 360, would not have just spent the same amount of money on XBox games) the 8% there isn't enough to explain the 25% increase in sales from last year. It becomes even more clear the 360 is in no way driving software sales when we see:According to the report, June sales were largely driven by Nintendo's New Super Mario Brothers for the DS, as well as by new releases such as THQ's Cars (PS2, Xbox, GC, DS, GBA, PSP, PC), Eidos' Hitman Blood Money (Xbox 360, PS2, Xbox, PC), and Take-Two's GTA Liberty City Stories (PS2).
So of the four games they consider to be the drivers of sales, none are 360 exclusives and only one was available on the 360 at all.
One would normally expect, I imagine, that just six months after launch, a hot new console would be a major driver of game sales. The XBox 360 is somehow not pulling this off. -
Game Developer Magazine
The only for sale magazine I read wrt games is Game Developer Magazine. Most of the other magazines bore me as they tend to have old news and clueless writers. Besides almost all of them have audio shows / podcasts anyways so I can just listen to them. Generally the inaccuracies in them are enough to quench my interest in picking them up in paper form.
Eg one of the shows (I think it was Hot Spot, produced by GameSpot / EGM IIRC.) didn't know what languages most games are coded in (C/C++). IMHO that's a bit like a sports commentator not knowing on what kind of surface hockey is played on.
Anyways, GDM has clue-ful people making interesting comments. They tend to have a couple of articles which focus on deconstructing game design (eg the "Post mortems", these are sometimes linked from Slashdot on the GDM sister-site Gamasutra) and a few on the state of game production. They also have reoccuring articles on the details of game making, such as the column on audio production and in depth algorithms.
Basically, GDM is the only game oriented magazine which I can put down feeling I have actually learned something. The other magazines I mostly feel like I've lost knowledge (or been filled with disinformation).
The only other game mag I read is the Scandinavian GameReactor. It's a free magazine and it has slightly less ads than most other magazines. I wouldn't trust the reviews blindly, but they seem to be pretty on the money compared to stuff I read online. And the price is right. -
Re:Narokath Santak Chattur'gha
Nintendo owns the IP for Eternal Darkness. That doesn't prohibit Silicon Knights from working with Nintendo for a sequel. From what I have heard, the split was pretty amicable.
From what Dyack has to say in an interview here, SK learned a lot from Nintendo and here he stated that future games with Nintendo would be a possibility.
They probably have some rough storyline ideas and could even have some Wiimote gameplay ideas. Dyack bringing up Eternal Darkness again means that there could be talks... or not. It could be just speculation. I'm hopeful though, but hey, I'm a long time fan of SK from back when I played Steel Empire.
They better more thought out pillars of bone in the sequel. Fresh human bodies suck for construction work; once they start decomposing, the weight of the structure can cause a collapse. I'm just sayin' is all. -
Re:He's right to an extent.
I really like the concept of electronic distributions, although I may be biased because the game quality in my experience has been so much better than my typical impulse retail pick (e.g.: Stardock, Steam).
But an initial release is EXACTLY where I think most developers still need a publisher (even if they want to take that role themselves). Getting the word of mouth out there does not seem that easy, Internet or not. I doubt I would have heard of the GalCiv2 release if I had not both played the original GalCiv back in the day, and there was significant buzz for the sequel from the usual suspects (gaming media, stores, etc.).
Each succesful electronic distribution I've seen rests on the success and popularity of a previously successful retail game.
Steam rests on Half-Life, and Stardock's seems to rest on GalCiv and non-gaming products. Now once they're out there, they open the doors for a lot of other games that didn't get the exposure, but at that point they are acting as publishers/retail-shelf for other games... I'm not sure how that works, number-wise, for a non-casual gaming title.
I personally prefer the electronic distribution model, because it is far more convenient for all parties when bandwidth is available. But I do not think we have develop full alternatives to the marketing clout of the traditional publisher yet.
There is a pretty good post-mortem on GalCiv2 at GamaSutra that I think is relevant to the topic: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060405/wardell _01.shtml/ -
PS3 a computer (and my car is a spaceship)
The difference is that Microsoft said that the XBox is a console. Sony says The PS3 is a 'Computer', not a Console
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And on the very same page...
And on the very same page as the link listed is another link describing how "Sony could come in last" (rather than second) in the next-gen "race". Point being regarding any such premonitions?...grain, salt, take it.
:) -
Re:My take on it...
Here's a link to Gamasutra with some real basic info on it to show I'm not making it up: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?s
t ory=9270
I have a bit more inside info. but I can't share any of it for quite some time... so you'll just have to believe me when I say that your comments above are a good bet to be 100% on target as far as the game goes and that this "rumor" is most likely reality. -
Re:DITOMOBAG - Do you recognize this acronym?It's from the Gamasutra article:
- THE DIRECTOR IS THE ONLY MASTER ON BOARD AFTER GOD! (DITOMOBAG).
He is the guarantee of the global consistency of the vision. He makes sure all the elements of the game contribute to creating the same emotion. His choices can/must be subjective. They may be debatable when taken individually but it is imperative that they form part of a global vision that is clear and consistent. -
Talk about overhyping a problem...
Yes, consoles draw power. In fact, the XBox 360 uses a whopping 130 kWh yearly according to their estimates! However, let's look at facts:
- ~6 million XBox 360s are expected to be sold by June 2006 [Sales Estimate]
- Total power consumption yearly according to their estimates is 780 million kWh [6 million * 130 kWh]
- Modern nuclear reactors produce 600-1200 MWe [Nuclear Power]
- A 1,000 MWe reactor at 80% capacity generates roughly 7 billion kWh yearly [Nuclear Power Facts]
All the XBox 360s in the world can be powered for a year from just over 11% of the power generated in a year from one nuclear reactor. -
Re:OMFG
You have a job where you get to code for 8 hours a day? I thought most programmers had it more like in Office Space, or more realistically, this guy.
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Re:ugh...
Accordion Hero: Mad Polka Beats
You think you're joking, don't you?
Schadenfreude Interactive's Accordion Hero --- Gamasutra's post-mortem report on the development process
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Re:What is wrong with these people?
This company must have the most patient investors in the history of business. They've sunk millions of dollars into this game. At this point so much money has been spent that it has no hope of being profitable, even if it becomes the highest selling game of all time.
Insightful comment.
I think the problem for 3D Realms is not technical or business-related, but psychological. How do you top Duke Nukem 3D?
George B. said it himself,"The problem is that when we show it, people are going to be like, 'Yeah, whatever'. Honestly, at this point we just want to finish it."
(Source: Computer Games Magazine Interview)
When Duke Nukem 3D came out about 10 years ago I remember going absolutely crazy playing this game on a set of networked Pentium 133's in my University's computer lab.
We had never seen such an awesome spectacle of RPG launching, shotgun blasting, mini-gun ripping, pistol whipping, pipe-bombing, jet-pack soaring good times on a PC before.
My favourite tactic was to place a bunch of laser wall-mines in the sewer shaft on one of the LA Meltdown levels. One of my buddies would always jump down the shaft to escape certain death at the hands of a shotgun-pumping maniac charging at full-speed, only to discover a carefully-staged laser grid of high explosives waiting just for him...
Another favourite stunt was placing a laser wall-mine in a weapons locker, closing the door, and watching from a distant video camera monitor as my hapless buddy opens it, looking for a few rounds of ammo, but instead finding the heat of a full frontal explosion detonating in his face.
Good times were had by all! :) -
Re:There's more to Xbox than Halo.
a THIRD version with HD-DVD support.
GP was referring to 2nd gen games, not another model of the hardware. As for your other comments:
A) The base model is for low-budget buyers who just want to play the new games. If they wanted all the add-ons, they wouldn't buy the base model, would they?
B) I assume you're claiming the developers won't take advantage of the HDD. They already are, plus many others use it for pre-caching etc if it's there. There are a lot more HDD-equipped 360s out there than base models, so developers have little to lose in supporting it.
C) The HD-DVD won't be used for games, MS have confirmed that. Movies are the point. Yes, it will bring the cost up to PS3-levels, but only if you want to pay for that feature. Unlike the PS3, the extra cost is optional. -
Poor Deluded Phil
Phil Harrison went on to say that ordinary gods and goddesses would cower at the site of the first PS3 and that the plain jane religions that exist the world today will be unneeded once we have the PS3 to worship.
Sony has been playing around with the idea of allowing consumers one PS3 in exchange for that consumer's first born son (or the trimmed down version for first born daughter). Analysts stated that this strategy would be met with disgust in most parts of the world but may play well in third world countries and those suffering from over population.
When asked why he would no longer need a PC, Harrison merely gestured to the screen displaying the new console and said, "Look at it! Just .. just ... look at it! No, wait stop, you are not worthy to cast your eyes upon it. Avert them! Everyone, stop looking at it, you're ruining its glory just by concieving it in your feeble puny mind!"
Sony has set up large preemptive trauma centers for players who will seek medical attention after attempting to "play" the PS3. Harrison explained that only players with "mad skillz" will be able to touch the PS3 and not walk away with their entire reality altered. Harrison also alluded to the idea that much of life after the PS3's release will be dedicated to playing the PS3 and trying to conceive of what life before the PS3 might have been like. Phil was skeptical any of their consumers would own any other consoles aside from the PS3 and stated that doctors were investigating ways to wean heroin addicts from the drug by giving them a PS3 as a substitute.
Some of the developers of the PS3 were admitted to mental institutions for possible instability. Many were sobbing and laughing at the same time screaming anything from "It is done!" to "It is ... the alpha & the omega!"
Reporters noted that Phil looked quite thin and ill but when asked about his health, he became extremely defensive saying, "Why do you ask about the physical things? If you had god in your living room, would you pause your conversation with him to eat?!" he cried, "Why do you vex me with puzzles non-PS3 based?" He had shaved his head for reasons unknown. He then jumped off the stage and ran to his celebrity van outside--presumably to play an in-development version of the PS3.
So, is Sony going to do all their development on PS3s from now on if they don't need PCs? -
Orphans Preferred
Before you decide, be sure to read Steve McConnell's insightful writing from a few years back at Orphans Preferred.
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PS3 + Linux as standard = PC?
Sure, $600 is quite expensive, and I doubt I'll be getting one in any hurry. but I'm not sure it's overpriced for what you're getting...
Plenty of people have pointed out that the PS3 will double as a Blu-ray movie player, and at launch it will probably be cheaper than the first round of standalone players; but not everyone cares about HD movies.
But what about the reports that:- The PS3 will ship with Linux on the HDD as standard
- Sony may be encouraging independent (homebrew) development for the Linux environment
In addition to being a fairly radical departure from Sony's current position on homebrew (eg PSP), this could put the PS3 into a different category to the other consoles -- the potential to be a general purpose home computer, out of the box.
Sure, the PS2 had a Linux addon kit available... for about $200 extra. This got you Linux, a hard drive, a keyboard & mouse, plus a special video adapter was required so you could use a monitor. You also needed to pony up for a memory card dedicated to Linux (there's another $20 or so). Even then you couldn't access some of the basic hardware, like the optical drive, and the PS2 hardware is kind of limited for general purpose use: it only has 32MB memory and a ~300MHz CPU.
The PS3, on the other hand, will come with Linux and the HDD as standard. Any USB keyboard and mouse should work. It's got a very powerful CPU, and 512MB memory. HDMI will give you monitor resolutions (you could even use a DVI adapter to connect to an actual monitor). For that $600, you're getting the next generation Sony console, but you may also be getting quite a reasonable living-room PC as well...
This is all prerelease specs, so it may not turn out this way... but if it does, maybe the PS3 isn't so overpriced after all?
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Re:When can we start Folding with it?
E3: Kawanishi Talks Homebrew Linux PS3 Development there's also some talks on idie game development, just google PS3 + Linux
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Re:When can we start Folding with it?
Linux will be pre-installed on the PS3 HDD, no hacking needed: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?s
t ory=9290 -
Re:Wow, just wow.
You're a Jackass who is (as usual for a slashdotter who claims to be an insider) wrong!
Starwars Rogue Squadren 2: Rogue Leader
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020501/engel_0 4.htm
Number of full-time developers: 30
Length of development: 9 months
Estimated budget: $3.5 million
As a general rule, you take the number of developers, multiply that by the number of years in developement, multiply that by $100,000 and you have the cost to develop the game. Go to (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/article_display. php?category=5) and look at all the post mortums written by the team leads themselves and DO YOUR OWN REASEARCH before you make an ass of yourself.
GAMES ARE STARTING TO COST IN EXCESS OF $10,000,000
Trust me I know ... I'm just a Buisness analysts who is involved with the Risk Analysis of next gen games ...