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Netscape 6.0 Released
Dave writes: "The first non-beta release of Netscape 6.0 has made its way onto the Netscape FTP server. The Windows, Linux and Mac versions are currently available. The version in the directory pointed to is a network installer. If you want to download all the files in one go then go into the 'sea' directory. However, for a more cutting edge browser then grab the latest nightly builds from Mozilla.org, the Mozillazine builds page tells you which nightly builds are worth downloading." And Mozilla doesn't draw the same standards-compliance critiques as Netscape 6.0 does, either.
Many people have asked why Netscape releasing version 6 matters. The reason is that for many people this is their first exposure to free software. (yes, I know that bind, sendmail, and many other free software programs are used regularly by the average luser, but they don't realize it so it has nil effect.)
;)
Should ns6 be buggy or slow or nonstandard or whatever it will turn people off to free software. (sad, but true.) Furthermore, and perhaps more important to free software developers, mozilla is the flagship example of freeing the source of a commercial project. Should Mozilla fail, the chances of other companies opening up the source to thier projects dwindles. If someone were to suggest it they would just say that "they don't want to create another mozilla."
Mozilla's been tough for all involved, but it's an experiment we can't really afford to loose.
Speaking of standards conformance, last time I checked MSIE's User-Agent violates the HTTP specification.
Rockwalrus
The sleep of reason produces monsters -- Francisco Goya
I've seen this happen in the past on NT4.0 with shoddy display drivers, and for whatever reason it only happens with some applications.
I would bet that if you update your drivers, the problem will magically go away. In any case, many other millions of people use IE without any of these display problems.
The directory was created just last night around 5pm....not quite an age.
Click on the appropriate button and the JRE will download and install itself. You _may_ have to restart the browser (I think newer nightly builds don't even make you restart the browser, but not sure) to get Mozilla to use the JRE, but it will now be installed.
You should download a nightly build... they are already faster and more stable than M18.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
Be aware.
> Just recently I have downloaded the latest milestone build M18 (Linux i586) and it is good
And nightly builds are (IMHO) better. Try them, if you have a broadband connection.
Anyone that did not download anything after M16, should give it another try. It is still visually ugly, have a slow interface (but a fast rendering), is not as nice as IE on macos, but can definitely be used for everyday browsing (I, for one, dropped IE for Mozilla).
And it can only get better if people use it.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Make sure it is not misleading...
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"don't smoke, don't drink, don't fuck
at least i can fucking think"
Minor Threat
If you install AIM 4, you waive your right to use free(speech) third-party clients!
There's a clause in the AIM 4.x license that states roughly, "You may not use third-party clients on the AIM servers," which is why I clicked Cancel instead of Agree in the AIM 4 installer and downloaded a Jabber client for my winbox.
Will I retire or break 10K?
You have to get it off their web site. There isnt any way for them to expose you to ads through ftp.
The best reason to crash/freeze/segfault just got better!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I had exactly the same problem with Win98 hanging on shutdown. Some two months later HDD went down and newer awakened again.
After puting a new HDD in (with exactly the same dual-boot config on it) the problem disappear. So, it may be a hardware problem after all.
Regards,
M.
I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
Yeah, I've been using M18 (or nightly builds of it, actually) as my primary browser on Linux for a while now. It still doesn't have https support so I have to use Njetscape 4.7 to access ecommerce sites, but that's about the only thing I still use NS for.
Assumming you are running on either Windows, Solaris or Linux, you can 'Install PSM' from the 'Debug' Menu at the top of the screen. Scroll down the web page and click the appropriate button for your OS (or load the package in manually for Solaris). If all goes well, you should see the package load in and your should get a successful XPInstall message. It would be nice to see some more OS's supported - at least MacOS is pending and a BSD-compatible version and some for other Unix platforms and architectures would be nice. Maybe there is room for an OpenSource PSM project.
PSM is good enough that I've successfully ordered plane tickets using it, and can quite comfortably browse Sourceforge in SSL mode.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
oh, I think they've got a ways to go to compete with emacs as far as the most features in any application award.
The directory appears to be empty. It's been up there for ages now as it is.
Frankly, I hope this isn't a sign of an impending release. NS6 is not ready. It needs another month; that's all it would take to fix the very few remaining standards bugs (need I remind some of you here that it doesn't even quite get DOM Level Zero right; even Netscape4 could do that).
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<i>Opera is beta quality (and it depeneds on Qt--I don't want to keep Qt around for just one program).</i>
<p>Have you used Opera's Linux beta 2? I'm using it now, and it hasn't hiccuped on me once. It's blazingly fast: Even better than MSIE under windows. And as for Qt: I'd be willing to bet that Opera+Qt is smaller than Netscape 6 or Mozilla...
Mainly the Flash 4 plug-in for Netscape in Linux, I like to go to a site that use alot of Flash you know. Hey I have to keep netscape when it comes to something like that you know.
From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero
When I try to log into any of the netscape6 dirs I get permission denied.
Now if I could just get the Dust Puppy on /. to actually display in Mozilla I'd be a happy man.
yepp, you're wrong... mozilla is a complete rewrite and mozilla != netscape... Mozilla is a fair bit further ahead than Netscape
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
I've been using mozilla nightly builds for a while and java support has always caused the browser to crash. Finally, with netscape6 java support *seems* to work!
Netscape6: Observations...
Here is a list of every process it started on my machine: ./netscape ./run-mozilla.sh ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin
$ ps | aux | grep -iE "(netscape)|(mozilla)|(java)"
m 6332 0.0 0.8 2056 1036 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00 sh
m 6334 0.0 0.8 2104 1096 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00 sh
m 6338 6.9 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:50
m 6340 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6341 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6342 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6359 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6361 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6362 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6343 0.2 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:31 0:02 java_vm
m 6344 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6345 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6346 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6347 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6348 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6349 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6350 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6351 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6352 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6353 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6354 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6355 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6356 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6357 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6358 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6373 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:33 0:00 java_vm
Seems a little excessive, but hey... maybe thats progress...
On a side note does anyone know how to start konquerer w/o having it start any kde stuff? It seems like a much better choice than netscape/mozilla and uses less resources. I just wish it was a stand alone component. KDE gives me the willies.
Looks like the directory structure is there, but nobody decided to see if it works...
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There's no mention of 6.0 non-beta on their web site, and the latest version on their downloads page as of 4:40am central is still 4.76.
I tried connecting to their FTP, but I get "permission denied" when I try to go to the 6.0 directory.
What gives?
Accidental leak?
Slashdot guys just messing with us?
Or am I just too tired to figure this out at 4:40am?
Unix is mysterious, and ancient, and strong. It's made of cast iron and the bones of heroic programmers of old -
Oh, I just though it was my primary OS.....
;-)
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
What does it mean for the future of Mozilla?
Will it continue along as an open source project, without Netscape's engineers, or will work move on to a new version of Moz and Netscape?
I've given it a chance, and I still won't use it. While mozilla has all these nifty features and a sexy new look, it's still missing some of the things that make Opera so nice...I mean, the damn thing still can't even remember the vertical position of a page when you press back! Mozilla needs to focus on useability right now, and perhaps borrow a page or two from Opera's book.
whoops! my bad. I thought that sounded ridiculous..
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DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
I try nightlies every week or so. Just downloaded the latest, and it's still slow. Looks great, lots of promise, but SLOW SLOW SLOW. I'm certainly not giving up hope, but Mozilla isn't becoming my primary browser until it speeds up.
Again, not blasting the work they do. It looks awesome, and it has sped up considerably since the earlier builds. But it's still slow. Very slow. Way too slow.
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#19845
I'm surprised to see when people talk about "standards compliance" as being key... yes, it's important to have pages that work across browsers, but it is nice to see some changes. Does anyone else remember back when Netscape shamlessly manipulated the html standard of the time to introduce those renegade "tables"? That turned out to be a major step for browsers everywhere. Today, it is true that there's less innovation except by proprietary companies in the "dotcom gold rush", but then, how much more innovation do we need? Can anyone think of some good standardized features that the web still needs but lacks (even in Mozilla)?
First run output:
/usr/local/netscape60/netscape
/usr/local/netscape60/mozilla-bin
o cal/netscape60:/home/chris/lib:/home/chr is/bin/rvplayer5.0
6 0/Cool
a pe60/Cool
/usr/local/netscape60/mozilla-bin just dumped a core file.
$
/usr/local/netscape60/run-mozilla.sh
MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/usr/local/netscape60
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/netscape60/Cool:/usr/l
LIBPATH=/usr/local/netscape60:/usr/local/netscape
SHLIB_PATH=/usr/local/netscape60:/usr/local/netsc
XPCS_HOME=/usr/local/netscape60/Cool
MOZ_PROGRAM=/usr/local/netscape60/mozilla-bin
MOZ_TOOLKIT=
moz_debug=0
moz_debugger=
/usr/local/netscape60/run-mozilla.sh: line 29: 5954 Segmentation fault (core dumped) $prog ${1+"$@"}
Oh no!
Do you want to debug this ? You need a lot of memory for this, so watch out ? [y/n]
They could have at least tested it
Hey! I posted that because it shows that IE under WINE, though not currently a reality, might soon be possible, as other popular Microsoft software is starting to be largely functional under WINE.
Looking at the above, and how far WinWord has come over a year, it would seem IE under WINE is a distinct possibility. Again, MSN Explorer semi-runs, but doens't handle the login part gracefully.
Sorry if I didn't make my point blatantly clear [I was excited, okay], but that was how the above post related to the topic. And it took some time to set that little test up!
:-(
As incredible as it sounds, even though AOL owns Netscape, they have agreement with M$, so IE is packaged in AOL. I guess since this agreement predates the acquisition of Netscape, it's not a big thing, but I would have thought Netscape would have pushed for their browser being packaged with AOL as part of the buyout deal. Oh well, just a little quirk, and further advances the question of just who will use Netscape.
I'm personally interested in the netscape release. The instant messaging, email, website integration along with improvements over 4.x make it a great browser, as well as Oracle probably won't spend the money to certify mozilla for applications anytime soon.
When there is a topic about mozilla they don't yell give netscape a chance and have that be a "5 informative" so geeze, this is news about netscape. After all netscape is the beast behind mozilla, without each other NONE of this would exist.
I haven't been able to get JAVA working on anything since M18 on LINUX. It installs ok, but crashes when I hit a page with an applet. Any secret to this, or am I SOL?
I think we should ditch this MathML stuff, and simply have TeX-like syntax:
would work rather nicely. I don't know why somebody decided to rewrite the wheel, making something more complex than necessary. I like coding things by hand, and MathML makes that rather difficult. I'll just render my TeX formulae with the gimp, and display them as png's anyway. I don't think real mathematitions will ever go with this MathML thing.Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
If all browsermanufacturers were required to keep strictly to the standards, what you would get was different browsers that all can show all pages "correctly". The differing factors would be speed, generic look and feel of the browser and differences is user interface. (like keycommands, etc.)
The added bonus would be that since all manufacturers has a fully set specification to follow, they can devote more energy to make it faster ans slimmer and less to find "that must-have feature that will put the others behind for a while".
and who would be the organization that requires browser manufactures to keep strictly to the standards? the government? w3c? maybe linus? sheesh! i love communist open source fanatics. your dream worlds are lovely.
ie has won. the public has decided. get over it. the dragon has been defeated.
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Can you even play MP3s on that thing?
<<>>
But that is what the commercial products need to do to be ahead of its competitors. It has to increase its value addition to the users, so that it can increase its market share and thus profits. And commercial entities ARE for-profit organizations, they are not charities. SO while there must be "Standards Compliance" you'll always have browsers with these cool and new features, which you're going to love. Compare the situation iwth RDBMSs, where all these vendors have databases which can run SQL (read Standard), but have thier own implementation of scripting language (PL/SQL, Transact-SQL etc.), cool ways of administering them, or integrating them with other products and languages.
It's this kind of FUD that's bad for the Mozilla project and the promise of a really good browser for Linux. You haven't tried anything since M16, have you?
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Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
Yes, I would. I want a better mail client for Mac OS X. The one that ships with the OS isn't robust enough; Outlook Express, which I (and many other Mac users use) isn't expected to be Carbonized for some time (because MSFT considers OS X a threat?) Which leaves me with few good mail clients on OS X--PowerMail is said to be good, but I'm not looking to spend $50 on something that I can get for free when I boot into OS 9.
If I had a better mail client, I would spend much more time in OS X. Since Netscape 6 is built for Linux, how difficult a port would this be? And if it was released for OS X, that would be just one less reason to use MSFT products on my machine--including, dare I say, my browser.
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$tar -xvf
The whole idea behind this version of netscape is the commercial idea. AOL blows, i think we all know that. AOL wants to turn netscape into a big advertisment. Ive decided to stick with 4.76 until i see a better one than it. It hasn't crashed like it has on some people. I have 1 session thats been open for a week. No problems here.
.gif extention would work with it.
KDE2's browser seems really appealing... That is, if the
Ive noticed that the windows version of Netscape installs all that AOL client message stuff. And that the email part has a big commercial that pops up when you use the email feature. Netscape went to shit when AOL bought it.
ETRN x
I'd have to agree, i use NS 4.75, and i honstely have never had it crash. IE (Explorer) on the other hand, has caused me to reboot after a crash. thats my biggest complaint with IE, its integration with the OS. Now when IE does crash, its not just browsing that is screwed, but most likely your entire computer. If you've ever killed IE b/c its not responding, you'd notice that the icons on your desktop and your start menu disappear; in win2k, they come back, but my past experience maks me not trust thta its working at 100% again. (Unlike the gnome bar, which doesn't have any problem dying and being restarted).
Even with just the basic download, it still took about a full minute to load up.
The first time Mozilla / Netscape starts up after installation it has to go through a lengthy component registration process. Unfortunately, the only feedback it gives the user during this process is the static splash screen. So the user has no idea that it's going through a one-time registration.
On the Mac, at least for a while, the splash screen showed a text string at the bottom of the screen that changed and showed that the components were being registered.
Unfortunately, this was never implemented on other platforms, and users almost certainly get frustrated thinking that it's always going to be this slow to start up. I hope the Mozilla team reevaluates the bug calling for this feedback...
W3M sucks, use links! :) Just adding to the flamwar :) But seriously links does frames a lot better than w3m, but aside from that there are really similar :)
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Not to say I don't have issues with Mozilla still. I still don't see a lot of images correctly (like the little icon for user friendly right here on /. , or any image on the Motley Fool) and I can't do anything using SSL (even though I have the SSL module). I have a few nits with some parts of the interface but I'm hoping those will get resolved eventually.
To get back to my original point however, keep trying. Mozilla works really well these days and is improving very quickly.
From netscape.pmlg, dveditz@netscape.com:
...
... reinstall the real release because the fixes we've accepted in the past week have been really serious ones (security exploits and things of about that level).
'Be careful. We have not announced the product yet, and typically pre-push various candidate builds just to test out the distribution
I recommed that *when the final bits are actually released you should*
You seem to be very confused:
the original poster is talking about Mozilla nightlies which don't come with PSM nor Java.
The Netscape 6.0 release includes both automatically.
--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
now my only web browser in linux. noticeably faster than ie5.x in windows, and renders beautifully. css and ssl for my online banking. one less thing to boot into windows for. konqueror and kde2 have made linux my main desktop rather than win2k. no other desktop or distribution before gave that to me before.
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Yes. It was leaked out three months ago, and I'm surprised Slashdot didn't take a look at the story. Betanews did.
/usr/lib/aol. Not that other Linux non-aware companies, like Citrix and Adobe, don't do the same. You might want to:
/usr/local/aol
/usr/lib/aol /usr/local/aol
/usr/lib/aol in /etc/ld.so.conf, and run ldconfig once you're done.
In fact, here is (until Geocities take it away). It's a 10Mb zipfile (!), which contains four [Red Hat] packages and a Perl script to install them [AOL, AOLfonts, and 2 GTK packages you probably already have].
AOL also have absolutely no idea of Linux filesystems either. The silly people put the entire app [libraries, binaries, docs] in
mkdir
ln -s
First.
Oh, and the README forgot to mention you need to add
Here's a screenshot in the meantime. Geocities will probably take this down soon, but I don't expect a speedy response.
Im having the same sort of "Can't Type" problem but under win-nt. (Corporately demanded platform) Anyone know whats up with this?
Conspiracy? Grow up.. Sounds like you don't belong running a computer in the first place!
Sounds like you shouldn't be posting on Slashdot. I'm so sick of this, everytime I post I get flamed. Yeah, I clicked on the link to download Netscape and IE froze up. I thought this was funny. You know, that Microsoft programmed IE so it'd freeze up when trying to download Netscape. No, I didn't really think it was a conspiracy, and I know they really didn't do this. I don't even know why you're telling me I shouldn't be running a computer in the first place. It has no relevance to my post, and just so you know, I work in the computer industry. Gosh people can be mean.
daed si luap
Yeah but when my fiancee tries to log in to her hotmail account with my M18 build, the server refuses the connection. Anyone else get this problem? Is there a work around?
Do we even want to talk about how much Linux Netscape and Enlightenment crash?
Windows is eons more stable for desktop work and web browsing than Linux.
is NS6 based on?
Dracos
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01;) --what a sham.
Uhm©©©that is *including* Java which is about 20+ meg© A browser that is only comparable to something like Opera ¥where you still have to download a JRE and java support is still a little shady©
Could you let me know when, so I can plan on starting a family? It would be a waste if they were in college by then.
This was their chance. They chose to release a buggy, not quite done product that contains built in spyware. (Check Linux Today for the article about that, I don't have the url handy. But the Smart Download tool has this neat feature of sending every file you download to AOL.)
Netscape is no better then Microsoft when it comes to browsers, except Microsoft beat Netscape at their own game when it came to proprietary HTML extensions: Microsoft's were better.
Now we have not quite done spyware.
Nah, I'll take Mozilla, thank you.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
My experience with Java and browsers is quite different. We have released several intranet Java2 applet web applications here and all problems we encounter are with Internet Exploere and its caching. We use the 1.22 plugin with IE (1.3 crashes), the 1.3 plugin with NS windows, and 1.3 runtime from IBM with NS on linux. I personally use NS on win and linux and rarly ever experiece any problems at all. IE caches its own copy of our classes locally and causes the appets to crash everytime we update them on the server. IE uses its own cached copy instead of the servers. (Kind of goes against the whole architecture concept). It is only certain releases of IE and the Temp Internet file settings dont make any difference. We even had to implement a Date/Time check on the applications- check a date/time variable on a common class against the date/time on a database to ensure you have the correct copy of the Applet. Major time spent on this. User calls- IE crashs. Got to Temp Internet Settings, remove all Temp files. Restart IE. All is ALWAYS OK after that, atleast until we compile again. I call it the ultimate virus, already built into certain releases of IE.
Even Emacs?
Aren't monopolies great! :>
IE has won, all hail emporer Gates!
IE has won, all hail emporer Gates!
IE has won, all hail hail hail hail....
Oh shit, another broken record!
Of course, I just realized that most of you youngsters here may not understand the reference to a broken record.
Basically the java plugin that mozilla downloads and installs sucks big time (or did when I tried it)
The Blackstone jdk works fine tho'
Microsoft(tm) - a particular virulent virus that has infected most Pc's.
I agree completely regarding IE. I use it when I'm in windows (which is rare). I would jump at the opportunity to use another free stable browser with the funcitonality of IE, but I have not found one. One problem I have had though, if that I have not been able to feed dymanically generated pdf files to IE without it locking up. It works find on netscape. I did a google search and found other people had the same problem. Serving the page from a "GET" query instead of a "POST" query fixes it, as does returning a link to the pdf file, but the behavior is annoying, especially since it appears to be a long standing problem.
Idol Star Astronomer
Well I'll give Netscape a try, since it's supposedly non-beta code. I won't go near Mozilla, though, and if Netscape sucks, I'll just stick with Netscape 4.76.
In my experience, Mozilla has been slow (the actual program, not the rendering), and crashes a lot. So have the Netscape preview releases.
What we really need in Linux is a good, stable browser which is light, fully standards compliant, and doesn't look bad. The only things I've found are Galeon and Opera, but Galeon is too new, Opera is beta quality (and it depeneds on Qt--I don't want to keep Qt around for just one program).
Well here I go--I'm going to try Netscape 6. Actually, although no less buggy (and sometimes more so) on the Windows platform, Intenet Explorer is a superior browser to Netscape Navigator. If nothing else, it would be nice if somebody ported IE to Linux.
I do not belong in the spam.redirect.de domain.
The last several milestones have all had major speed improvements.
Take a look at m9, and then take a look at m18. The progress is astounding, in that m18 is almost useful as a regular browser on my Pentium 233.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
This is in the recent versions of netscape 4. Try resizing one of these browsers to about 640 pixels wide. If you do you lose the stop button and the shop button is now on the end of the button bar.
As much as I appriciate Mozilla's efforts to make a better browser...
I don't want to surf the web from inside a complete application development environment!
I don't care if the entire interface can be customized with XUL! I don't care if you can write a pacman game that runs inside my web browser. And I definitely don't care if you can write a Unix shell that runs in my web browser. I just want the rendering widget itself to be powerful and, if possible, fairly efficient.
All these gtkmozembed browsers are a nice step, but gecko still makes any application pretty hungry for resources.
Well, no offense, but the browsing may be faster than NS 4.7 but so was the crashing. I have never had a version of Mozilla that I have been able to use constantly (same session) for more than a few hours without it segfaulting at some point or another and crashing. If Netscape hasn't done some vast improvements over Mozilla's code there is no way in hell I'll be putting it on any of my machines and I certainly won't be letting my mother install it on hers. She complains enough about Netscape 4.76 crashing.. the last thing I need to do is introduce MORE bugs since I end up being her tech support. *sigh*. :-P
Remeber , there is always emacs....
The buglet that bothers me about netscape 6 and mozilla is using a proxy auto config script. It just doesn't work. I'm looking around at the bug lists now and see if anyone ever bothered to report it.
"Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
Actually, all you need to do is locate the aim.xpi file (which is somewhere on their server) and install that and Mozilla will be able to use AIM. In fact, there are .xpi installers for pretty much everything Netscape 6 includes, so there's no excuse not to use Mozilla instead :)
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
are there any ISP branded versions of Mozilla in the works? Will other ISP's stay away because Netscape is owned by AOL? Many ISP's use customer branded browsers and will not support anything but their own customized version of that browser, forcing their customers into using that 'other' browser(especialy newbies-'the unconverted'-the people we need on our open source wagon). Mozzila being highly customizable seems to lend itself to ISP Branding, but I'm sure a lot of ISP corporate dodohead decision makers would see using mozzila as siding with the enemy (AOL). Me thinks this "Themes" thing could be used to gain acceptance for Mozzila via ISP branding, esspecially because the ISP now has a cross platform 'portal' to their services. Is anyone reading this in a position to make ISP browser distribution decisions, and if someone gave you a nice looking mozzila based browser with your logo all over it, would you go with it?
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Netscape doesn't have MathML. Mozilla does. In fact, this is the essential difference between Netscape 6 and Mozilla at this stage.
But I agree with the fact that I hope MathML will replace this obsolete and obfuscated TeX format in future mathematical publications.
As for the "soon to be followed", I hope you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. Goldbach's conjecture may be just around the corner (but nobody's interested in it, anyway), but the Riemann hypothesis is as far as ever. Nobody ever made any kind of progress towards proving it (Deligne's proof of the Riemann hypothesis on varieties in characteristic p doesn't count, because it's a local result that's completely trivial in the classical case).
It looks pretty, though.
--
Netscape 6, or Mozilla, is not built for anything in particular. Mozilla was specifically designed to be very cross-platform, and so it isn't actually native to any operating system. I know there there already is a Mac port, but since it uses a cross-platform toolkit, it won't use Aqua like a native Max OS X app. If you really need pretty widgets, I'm sure sooner or later someone will write a native frontend for the Mozilla browser, such as Galeon for Gnome and K-Meleon for Windows.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Ah, but in the minds of a LOT of people, such as those who are not in the OSS community scene and know there is a netscape and an IE, they are the same. Netscape has always been the same as mozilla and I think will always be the same, unless something is done.
/.ed and I never download it. From what I saw of pr3 before I rm -rf'd away to where it belongs, it sucked. Basically take an old build of mozilla (nightlys are quite fine thankyouverymuch) and throw a bunch of crap in there, and release it as a .0 product.
:)
Personally, I don't mind if netscape 6 is
Sadly, the way that people think is that netscape 6.0 is the same as mozilla, and when netscape 6.0 fails, or gets too critisized, I wouldn't doubt if aol just gives up, throws netscape down the crapper, and kills the mozilla project. Yes, mozilla is OSS but (from what I understand) they have financial backing from aol/netscape for developers. Even if they don't, the nice mozilla organization as we know it will probably get a kick in the head if aol decides to kill them off.
I know netscape isn't mozilla, and I know which is crap and which is coming along nicely. But does your mom? dad? grandparents? The ones that are the other 80% of the websurfers out there.
Of course, even if mozilla does die I'll probably keep on using my nightly builds, even if they're stuck on november 9th
An OS with a fairly decent editor built in :)
No. People complaining about Netscape (and IE) compatibility are comparing to the standards. When you code something into a page and it displays incorrectly, according to the standard and other more compliant browsers (and also compared to plain common sense of what a browser should do), then it's unacceptable. It's not a matter of proprietary IE extensions. I wouldn't use those any more than now I would use the Netscape layer tag.
And that's the thing... if any browser fully implemented all of the standards correctly, it would be the most exciting and capable browser out there. So much of what people complain about in compatibility are things that already have a standard, and have a full set out standard for years, and it's just that the compainies making the browsers have ignored them or just haven't gotten them right yet.
Standards compliance = no innovation?
I'd have to say no. The fact that my linux box can now talk to my windows box through SMB sharing doesn't make the different OS's network drive methods any less innovative. The fact that my webpage, done through tables and minimal javascript, displays correctly on most browsers doesn't make those browser less innovative. There's plenty of room for innovation. But implementing a standard incorrectly is not innovation. Implementing the functional equivalent for a standard that is incompatible requires a justification. What does the new method provide that the standard does not? If there's no gain, then that's what makes people call things "proprietary". I'd love it if IE and Netscape were fighting out the field on innovative features. But I can't even think of any examples, because they aren't even done with the basics. If SSL was incompatible from browser to browser, would that make online banking any more enjoyable? I'd love them to expand, make things more secure and work better. But on the standards that make sense and are the best choice, let them conform. I'd love to be able to sit at work and develope for 5 year old standards (most standards are older than you think), and not worry about Netscape / IE / Anything else out there screwing it all up.
I think I might have got some nitpicky details wrong. But I do believe the crux of it is true. Let me know if I'm wrong (if my opinion is wrong... heh).
James
----
Signatures are the refuge of the weak minded.
>
> Clarence (Andreas M. Schneider) wrote:
>
[
> > Clarence wrote:
> > > ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/
]
> > Now "Permission denied" (before my download was complete).
>
> It took me several attempts, but at about 12:20 AM, I was able to grab
> all the components and install.
Be careful. We have not announced the product yet, and typically pre-push
various candidate builds just to test out the distribution mechanism and
site. What you got may not end up being the final bits.
I recommend that when the final bits are actually released you should
compare the date stamp in your user agent with someone who did download the
final bits and make sure they are the same. If they differ I'd recommend
re-installing the real release because the fixes we've accepted in the past
week have been really serious ones (security exploits and things of about
that level).
-Dan Veditz
(Dan works at NS)
--
The shareholder is always right.
Are sure about that?
--
--
You are a fucking moron.
unless you run -managed wine will ignore the window manager (which will cause what you described)
--
enterfornone - logging in for a change
Well, if MS would just port IE5.5 to other platforms and it was just as fast as on Win2k I'd be one REALLY happy camper. For all my bitching about MS's monopoly, they put out one really snazzy excellent browser. Netscape doesn't even hold a candle to it anymore. If we were to compare, Netscape 4.76 is at about IE 3.0 level of sophistication. I hate to admit it, but Win2k makes for the absolute best web browsing platform. You've got IE5.5 and tons of cool multimedia plugins (media player, quicktime, realplayer 8, flash, etc, etc.) and don't exist on any other platform (maybe Macs). We can bitch and moan all we want, but people ARE using these multimedia tools on their sites extensively now. Gone are the days when there was a "text-only" option to check to get rid of the graphics. Now you're lucky if you can turn off the streaming audio and video and you interact entirely with a flash app. Ah well. I guess we can keep trying but MS has the advantage of cash and a dedicated full time development team on their side.
I downloaded the latest Preview Release 3...here is what happened...
./netscape
./mozilla-bin
[/usr/local/netscape]
./run-mozilla.sh
MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.:./Cool
LIBPATH=.:./Cool
SHLIB_PATH=.:./Cool
XPCS_HOME=./Cool
MOZ_PROGRAM=./mozilla-bin
MOZ_TOOLKIT=
moz_debug=0
moz_debugger=
./run-mozilla.sh: line 29: 16993 Segmentation fault $prog ${1+"$@"}
So, netscape is just mozilla that doesn't run?
Methinks I think I shall stick to the Mozilla nightly builds...
Regards
Ummm. The only problem with that is it doesn't even seem to have anymore capabilities than NN 4.7 does yet it crashes constantly. Why deal with that when you can just use IE 5.5 which I NEVER have crash anymore? Netscape is dead. Mozilla is a dead project. Just write your pages to IE standards and let's get on with life. Start a petition to get IE 6 ported to Linux and let's stop bitching.
And what about "non-standard" apps such as Flash and Shockwave?
These are becomming more and more standard every day.
Do you think it is because of their "bullyish tactics" or because of their innovation?
I won't say standards get in the way of the cool stuff, but they can get you stuck in a rut sometimes.
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
Hell who cares if all the computers don't follow the TCP/IP standard exactly, if they get it almost right then thats good enough. Computers will be able to communicate 90% of the time. Hell, why have Hardware standards? If your new keyboard doesn't work with your computer then it is your fault for buying the wrong keyboard. Besides, if all computers followed the standards exactly then they would all be the same, and where's the fun in that?
Hello? We're talking about AOL here? The same group of brillient who made AOL 5.0 feel like it was written in Java? If Mozilla is this bloated now, I absolutely tremble at the though of AOL getting its grubby hands on it.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
it still doesn't work. it says there's no data or something like that.
And not just cutting edge - at the rate it's going, Mozilla is going to have more features than any application on earth, let alone any browser.
I wonder if it'll ever get out of beta!
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
>It is still visually ugly, have a slow interface >(but a fast rendering),
I'd really like to know what the fsck they've done to make the interface sooooo slow. Is it that difficult to write a an interface that doesn't make you lose patience while waiting for it or what? IMO that unwelcome "feature", the subjective feel of it, the sense of wading in molasses (I've got an antique of a PC right now) is really offputting.
I must be psychic - glibc 2.2 went into Debian Potato on Saturday, as I discovered when I came to do an apt-get dist-upgrade.
From what I have seen, the newest string of Netscape software is still slower than its predecessor and less stable - despite definitely making improvements over the last few weeks. I wonder if the program is really ready to lose the beta tag, especially with widespread distribution of the Windows version to a public with high expectations. ISP's may be forced into doing tech support for a Netscape package that isn't fully ready for the average consumer's daily use.
Thank You!!!! I have the Sun Java2 JRE 1.3 for Opera 4, and M18 just wouldn't start. Sat there for 15 minutes before I ctrl-alt-deleted it. I installed the latest build, copied the npjava dlls, and it works fine!
I'm not going to make a big deal about this except to tell you that you're not an idiot - you just have limited understanding of what I'm talking about. I agree that yes there can be a CNAME record ie www1, www2, www3, www4, www5 that all point to an ip adress e.g. 1.1.1.1 What I'm saying is that 192.168.250.50 is a box, such as a cisco localdirector that roundrobins, or tunnels traffic for www1, www2, www3 to an internal address such as 192.168.253.50-55. This is what I suspected - do some reading, take a few pills and get back to me when you understand what the fsck I'm saying.
Where can you download greymodern?
Sorry, it does work. I tried it again and it worked.
It does, at least on my machine, but as I recall you have to specifically enable .gif support in QT when you compile it. I think they do this due to the patent issues with the compression in GIF's. While I, for one, only use PNG's any more, the ubiquity of GIF's makes lack of support for them a pain. I can't wait until 2003 when the ridiculous patent expires and I can look at the any GIF's still on the web without dealing with the complications brought about by the patents.
Other than that, and A)not-quite-ready javascript support (including especially that it doesn't yet support "javascript:" style URLs) and B)an occasional annoying "won't let go of the current site no matter what address you type in" bug, Konqueror so far seems really nice. It's fast and seems to render nearly everything well. I use it for about 80% of my browsing now - I suspect when a few bugs are fixed by the KDE 2.0.1 release that number will be up to 90-95%...I figure within 4-6 months I'll be able to dump Netscape entirely. If not, maybe the Mozilla branch will be ready for 'prime time' by then.
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for Evil.
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
It is still too slow and sluggy. I tried Mozilla M18-3 - it's better than others, but in my P200MMX (hey, I know it's old, but still) it's far more inconvenient to use than say, 4.5. But it looks good. At this rate, I guess M20 will be where I switch to Mozilla.
# amo, ergo sum
I personally believe that netscape is the worst piece of software thats ever been ported to linux. Id much prefer IE in windows, but Im not a windows user! Here at weta we have lots of linux and lots of irix boxes... and I can say that Netscape is far more stable under irix. Anyone else noticed that Netscapes Javascript dies even at Netscapes own webmail page? weird huh?
--- LOTR!!!
Rubbish.
We have had LaTeX for many years and papers are independantly published in LaTeX format. Have a look at arXiv.
This is almost as bad as seeing nightly builds with a milestone number in them and then screaming "Mozilla MXX is out!!"
Does this remind anyone else of what just happened in Florida:
Gore is the winner! No he is not. Bush is the winner! No he is not.
Netscape has NOT "forked" from Mozilla. What they did was to *branch* temporarily from the Mozilla trunk so they could work on stability, documentation etc without worrying about the constantly changing trunk. During this process they fell a bit behind the trunk, which was expected and necessary.
Future (major) Netscape releases will be done the same way --- they will branch from the then-current Mozilla trunk, stabilise, and ship. Every good thing in Mozilla (except possibly some features that Netscape choose to deliberately exclude) will find its way into the next major Netscape release.
A couple of guys with pet peeves that didn't make the cut whining doesn't make "heavy criticism". Sure it's easy to have a superior browser if you never release it. Saying Mozilla is better than Netscape is mainly missing the point: Netscape shipping products is (mainly) what pays for continued Mozilla development. They complement one another. Mozilla will chug away indefinitely, (generally) improving slowly day by day. But it doesn't improve that fast: delaying the ship by a month would have made a better browser, no doubt. But then so would delaying by another, and another...
Looking back on the complaints, they look kind of silly: trying to stop the ship only a few days before release because the development team were only taking showstopper bugs. That's what you do when you're about two days away from shipping, guys.
Have a look at the W3C's CSS test pages. Where was the petition not to ship IE until it had proper CSS support? Sure, NN6 isn't perfect either but it does a hell of a lot better than IE; it's unreasonable to expect 100% quality before release.
...that if NS 6 final was really being released, it would be mentioned somewhere on this page.
And it would almost certainly be noted here.
Stick with Mozilla anyway - it's not like you need AIM or net2phone or all the other cruft anyway.
-------------
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
Now that NS6.0 is out you can stop talking about the 4.x series. NS6.0 is far from perfect but it's much better than 4.x in many respects.
PS, with NS6.0 and Mozilla you can use user style sheets to easily get rid of all images.
www.ridiculopathy.com
Now it's official. Netscape.com has an announcement of the final release of 6.0. It's now available through their download page.
According to a news.com article , Netscape 6 will also be mass distributed AOL-style on CDs included in numerous magazines owned by Time-Warner.
ZDNet's story on the release refers to Flanagan's petition to postpone the release until standards compliance bugs were fixed.
cnet has already posted a review.
I don't know if it is a real question or only rethoric. Let's say it is a real question.
<BR><BR>
It was a real question. Thanks for your answer.
Sadly, it seems that if Mozilla or derivatives were to become the only decent browser(s) on Linux, low-end machines have no future as desktops, not if you want to make any heavy use of the web anyway. I still harbour hope that it'll get optimised to acceptability by some perrformance-hungry hackers, but I'm not holding my breath.
What exactly makes you trust that when Explorer is restarted it's not working 100% again whereas gnome bar is.. do you have any proof or is this just a 'feeling' you get? I spend all day coding in win2k, a few weeks ago I wrote a SHOUTcast streamer and I was dumping the WAV samples out and then not freeing them when they were done playing all day during development, leaking 88k per second and the OS was still rock solid. I do this almost every day coding various apps, a few with the IE engine, testing during different stages of development and I seriously can't remember the last time I've had an OS crash.. I can sadly only speak for win2k though, I use win98 inside VMware now as it's alot easier on the reboots heh.
Will be roaming access feature in Netscape 6?
Anyone tryied it yet?
If N6 is a polished version of N6 PR3,
the answer should be NO.
Oliver
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
And nightly builds are (IMHO) better. Try them, if you have a broadband connection.
Just a warning; according to mozillazine the 8th and 9th nightly builds has a pretty big crasher(certain gifs cause a crash). Use a Nov 7th or 6th build till it gets resolved.
Q.
Will Netscape bw somehow more stable than the code it's built on top of? How much 'heaver' on the system will it be than Mozlla and how heavy in relation to Netscape 4.7x? Does anyone have any comparison figures yet?
Better the pride that resides in a Citizen of the world, than the pride that divides when a colourful rag is unfurled
You have the source. Just find a friendly FreeBSD hacker to build it for you.
We've all heard and read (and experianced in many cases) the recent batch of problems and critiques of this latest version of Netscape, and I really can't see there being any future in it at all. You've got IE on Windows platforms, and Mozilla on a whole raft of platforms, and the latest versions of these programs are much better than Netscape in almost every way. Why would you want Netscape?
And surely Netscape realised this a long time ago when they reorganised to become a portal rather than a browser seller? Their business plan flopped with the free release of Explorer, and they were snapped up by AOL. Why the attempt now to push Netscape on? Sure, I realise it's now based on Mozilla, but the fact that it misses out on a lot of the latest stuff from the Mozilla project means that it offers nothing at all over Mozilla.
If you're running on Windows, you're probably using IE. If you're running on Linux then you're probably running Mozilla or one of the other open source browsers (Galleon, Konquerer etc.). Who are they aiming this browser at? The branding is hardly going to convince people - they deserted Netscape in droves a long time ago on Windows, and the more canny people on Linux are all too aware of Netscape's flaws.
Is there any point to this release? I can't see one...
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Extended Server Error Message : /pub/netscape6/english/6.0/: Permission denied.
/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/windows/win32/: No such file OR directory.
/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/unix/linux22/: No such file OR directory.
/pub/netscape6/english/6.0/mac/macos8.5/: No such file OR directory.
200 Type set to I.
200 PORT command successful.
550
Extended Server Error Message :
200 Type set to I.
200 PORT command successful.
550
Extended Server Error Message :
200 Type set to I.
200 PORT command successful.
550
Extended Server Error Message :
200 Type set to I.
200 PORT command successful.
550
Great. Back to IE then. Had their chance, fluffed it.
That doesn't mean much of anything - just means one interface on a localdirector gets ftpX.netscape.com. I doubt you tried visiting ftp30.netscape.com to see that I am correct.
/pub/netscape6/english
/pub/netscape6/english
The difference is proven by visiting the following urls:
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/ shows:
Current directory is
where as ftp://ftp30.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/ shows:
Up to higher level directory
ftp://ftp30.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/
Current directory is
Up to higher level directory
6.0/ Thu Nov 9 17:04:00 2000 Directory
6.0_netbiz_edition/ Thu Nov 9 17:09:00 2000 Directory
6_PR3/ Sat Sep 30 10:55:00 2000 Directory
Sorry man, good idea. I doubt that we will see this 6.0 directory accessable until netscape officially releases the PR though.
This stuff should really be checked out before it's posted. It seems kind of lazy to make your readers correct this stuff for you.
It's a good thing the TeX vs LaTeX war is taking up too many resources, otherwise the "*TeX* gestapo might be paying you a visit for suggesting there _could possibly maybe in the future_ be some other way to think of expressing mathematical ideas electronically or on paper.
:)
:)
I for one will stick with TeX/LaTeX. Saying that TeX is obfuscated/obsolete makes me think you've never used it (successfully)
I would support a TeX->MathML "renderer", but TeX in and of itself is faultless imo
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
it was kinda interesting, as I dint start it, I was playing with real player and it started IE the UI was all screwed up and the only page it would load was microsoft.com
I shud have tookin a screen shot, ie5.5 with a screwed up UI with the win3.11 look
I've been using the preview releases of NS6 for some time, and I've never been hugely impressed. Sure, theres all the usual standards (non)compliance issues, and theres that 'its-not-IE' look to it (could be a bonus if you're anti-MS). But what has killed Netscape for me is the lack of innovation.
Back in the old days of Version 3 browsers there was real difference between the options. IE was headed toward DHTML, and NS was going down the road of JavaScript. People complained bitterly about their sites not working on one browser or another, but they also managed to come up with some really cracking stuff.
These days theres little real innovation. If MS or NS come up with something cool that the other doen't support it gets labelled as 'proprietary'. And we never use 'proprietary' things because they're 'non-standard'. Its all well and good having the exact same standard XML parser, the exact same DHTML support, and the exact same JavaScript command set, but then you end up with two exact same browsers.
Standards are fantastic for the essentials. HTML made the WWW what it is today. But standards can often get in the way of the cool stuff.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Does RH bundle Mozilla yet? if so... I can't see much point in sticking with nutscrape. Under Irix, ive had no problems. but under Linux, Ive had all sorts of bugs, eg stability issues with +4 windows, bus errors when sending email etc...
--- LOTR!!!
Hmm, not a single directory accessible, and not a word on Netscape's www pages.
I always wanted to submit a hoax to the submission queue to see if I could fool the editors in posting it, but it seems David beat me to it.
Can David get +10 (Funny) karma for just submitting this story?
Please please please?
<grub> Reading
There are already quite reasonable means for
publishing formulae on the web.
Mathematicians have been using TeX (and its derivatives like LaTeX, see
http://ww.tug.org) to typeset their manuscripts, and there are convertors from TeX
to HTML (see e.g. http://hutchinson.belmont.ma.us/tth/),
or one can create a Postscript or a PDF
file from TeX source quite easily, as well.
Was the poster trying to say that M$ is to blame
for lack of progress in maths, by not having
MathML in IE ?
Give us a break...
Dmitrii, NL
-- no, I didn't hack in M$, it was some other Dimitri...
i'm not completely discounting standards compliance, but if everybody did the same thing, we'd all have identical browsers, and where's the fun in that? oh wait, i forgot about the whole speed of the program thing. oh well.
I've been using OmniWeb 4 for Mac OS X since 4.0beta3. Beta 7 has been totally awesome. Just hope they find time to make a final 3.0 (or even a 3.1) for Openstep 4.2 (the OS version is at 3.0fc2 right now).
See bug #53080
My Web Page
That's not the release version. That's just a mirror of PR3 (again.)
The AOL content plug-in will be has any one heard when will that come out? By next year if AOL pushes Netscape right we could see Netscape back on top in the browser war.
OK, let's do the numbers.
Which run on Linux (without WINE): Mozilla and Netscape.
Which run on Mac: all three
Which sell out your privacy and let you be tracked the most easily, in violation of European Privacy Standards: IE
Which must we download if we don't want the entire corporate world to go with IE: Netscape.
So, download Netscape 6.0, download Mozilla 16, cheat and copy IE for testing purposes (use a slightly older version) (if you download, they count your stat).
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Calm down. Netscape 6 hasn't hit 1.0 yet, and AOL is not going to incorporate unstable code into their software. I'm sure they will take their sweet time, but it would be stupid for them not to switch to Gecko once its ready.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Did you build the IRIX version yourself? I haven't been able to find a binary of it (I'm running IRIX64 6.5.9m). Netscape 4.X for me on IRIX has been just as bad as what you've described for Linux. The bus errors and segfaults are REALLY, REALLY annoying after typing out a long email or finding an obscure website and not having had time to bookmark it. I hear Richard Hess at SGI is hard at work on an "offical SGI version" of 4.75/4.76 and 6.0, I hope he has a chance to work out at least some of the problems. Getting the keypad to work again would be nice, too.
Indeed, even the specification site admits that "MathML is not primarily intended for direct use by authors. While MathML is human-readable, in all but the simplest cases it is too verbose and error-prone for hand generation." This means: people will not write their publications in MathML. They will write their publications in TeX/LaTeX or some other program and publish the result as MathML.
From an authorship standpoint, MathML has the following serious shortcomings with respect to TeX/LaTeX:
- No support for macros or functions
- No support for internal citations (you can't cite a previous theorem as an abstract object; you have to cite it by its number, and keeping track of numbers by hand sucks)
- Lack of outside bibliographic database integration
- Doesn't look good on paper (no web browser can begin to match the years of thought that went into TeX's typesetting engine--kerning, ligatures, n-cubed optimal hyphenation, etc.)
I'm really shocked that you think MathML is any more human readable than TeX is. Try comparing "3+4i" in TeX to in MathML and you'll see what I mean. Any way you look at it, TeX/LaTeX is not going away anytime soon.It still boggles my mind when people call Mozilla ugly (especially M18) when IE is based on flat, grey buttons. Lets just say its a matter of taste and leave it at that; and besides, its completely themeable so if you don't like the default theme, go download one that you do like.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
Netscape is going to have to get a hellofa lot more stable before it becomes my browser of choice again. I lost interest when 2.0 and its buggy, slow plugins came out. Version 1.1N was the last that actually impressed me. I like OmniWeb on NeXTSTEP, OpenStep, and Mac OS X... and MSIE 5 on Windows, Mac OS =
www.microsoft.com/unix
I downloaded it it was with java under 20 MB and took around 30 min. on my 56K. :) Other than the dreaded Netscape loading time its pretty fast, but as I said before that IS the final but the smart download does NOT work so you must download the XPI's and such.
It looks like the FTP archive is having an "El Slashdotto Grande" experience, and Tucows don't have the latest version... Anyone out there with a mirror?
*Ahem*
apt-get install mozilla
Works for me. I know I shouldn't be feeding this troll, but the neatness of apt-get is too tempting to boast about. Debian rockz. :-)
---
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
My browser of choice? iCab. If you're on a Mac, this browser rocks. Fast, small, highly cusomizable, tightly integrated into the MacOS, and more preferences than you can shake a stick at. No proprietary tags or other BS, either... just strickt HTML 4.0 compliance. This baby kicks the butt of both "mainstream" browsers by delivering something that both browsers should be. The final release should ship in January, and be feature-complete by that time. (The only thing that's lacking right now is lack of CSS & XML support, and the JavaScript is still a little buggy.) Everyone that's used this browser for a day or two has switched and never looked back.
When this puppy hits prime-time, look the hell out.
---
MacTacToe - for every problem, an elegant solution
>-- The real Leto2 has Slashdot ID 113576. I am an imposter.
And let it be known that the real Leto2 is merely a pretender to the throne. The true god emperor is Leto-II with ID 1509.
There's no other "Leto"s with a lower id.. Bow to the original! Fear my prescience!
Fear my low SlashID! (bidding starts at $500)
Do not anger the worm.
...maybe there's hope for the U.S. presidential race someday being decided!
-Karl
And here I haven't even gotten acquainted with 5.0 yet...
-- dR.fuZZo
I like OmniWeb on NeXTSTEP, OpenStep, and Mac OS X... and MSIE 5 on Windows, Mac OS 9, and Solaris (yes, Solaris). Netscape may be MSFT-free, but it's a piece of trash right now. MSIE on Solaris may look goofy with its Windows widgets, but it has yet to give me any problems (and it runs pretty well, too). Netscape is going to have to grow up... and I don't mean get larger, 4.X is bad enough, 6.0 is worse yet. It needs to become something I can trust and run without having to worry about segfaults every ten minutes.
www.microsoft.com/unix
In my department, we have a continual saying that results from our webmaster trying to make pages work under both IE and Netscape: "NETSCAPE SUCKS!"
Connah
Connah
"Your mouse has moved. Windows NT must be restarted for this change to take effect."
Poll: What crashes most?
Windows 9%
Netscape 10%
Hemos 70%
(Yes, 11% of the vote is mysteriously unaccounted for)
-bugg
I downloaded NS 6.0 PRE3 today @work as I saw it on
All I could get, on a fast T1 it really doesn't matter...:-). It looked nice, but couldn't understand my autoproxy (squid), but all other browsers (IE & Netscape) do understand it?
I wasn't very impressed, quite slow on my 800 Mhz Linux (Athlon) box with 256 MB RAM...:-( As I write this I'm downloading Mozilla M18, puh, takes lightyears with my ISDN link...
I would even pay, if I could get a decent browser.
I use Linux only and so: Stuck with the crap,
one can download at NS. What's a OS worth (I really love it) that can standup as long as you like it, when your Browser just makes trouble most
time...:-(
Michael
Oh well. At least they didn't call it Netscape 2000.
Sadly, it's not much more efficient than Mozilla. I do prefer it, yes. Been using it for months.
If anyone here went through ftp1-29.netscape.com you would find that /pub/netscape6/english is cut off. If you go to ftp30+ you will find that there are three directories, 6.0/, 6.0_netbiz_edition, & 6_PR3/. Obviously they are not done sending this out to the ftp farm. Wait until morning and download it. I know all of us Linux fans are jonsin' for a new browser but this will have to wait a few more hours =)
Good god man. You have gone crazy.
ETRN x
That directory has been there for eons... long before the PR releases came out, and it's always had the permissions set to deny anyone. I love how someone sees a directory structure and knee-jerk posts, just to get a submission in...
This is almost as bad as seeing nightly builds with a milestone number in them and then screaming "Mozilla MXX is out!!"
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
... but that's more a matter of Mozilla still being in development rather than stopping and doing all the tidying up that has gone on with Netscape.
If Mozilla released a comparable package, would you still be using Netscape though? That's my point...
Jon Erikson, IT guru
Smells like a Release Candidate... heck, I renamed N6Setup.exe to N6SetupRC20001110.exe before I even ran it.
Looks like a Release Candidate... Once the setup began, on the big blue background just under "Netscape 6 Setup" there was the text "Version 6.0.0.2000110801". Hmm, guess it's a couple of days old, better change that filename.
Must be a Release Candidate... Sure enough, Apache logs the user agent as "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001108 Netscape6/6.0". The same text appears on the "about:" page. The "200001108" part is a build ID, familiar to anyone who'se worked on Mozilla, but not what you'd want prominent on any build distributed to AOLers!
I, like a lot of /. readers, dismissed Mozilla after I tried one of the earlier, bulky build and discovered numerous problems. Just recently I have downloaded the latest milestone build M18 (Linux i586) and it is good.
The Mozilla hackers are not kidding when they said the next releases are going to be optimisation only, because Mozilla is ready to go forth and take over the world!
Amongs many goodies in M18: themes are now fully functional, you can choose NOT to install the news/mail/chat clients, memory footprint is more or less the same as Netscape 4.75.
You own it to yourself to at least download the ~8MB binary and give it a try. (You can install the whole thing under a standard account if you don't want to mess with your /usr/local/ :-)
====
Codeala - Just another mindless drone
An FTP authentication failure occurred while trying to retrieve the URL: ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub/netscape/netscape6/englis h/6.0/windows/win32/
Squid sent the following FTP command:
PASS
and then received this reply
Login incorrect.
Bah... gimme lynx anyday! well kinda...
--- LOTR!!!
Try This Mirror
Well, netscape may have closed it dirs, it has been mirrored allready, for example: /ne tscape/netscape6/english/6.0
ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub
Odd, b/c for me it has, ever time. Just like in 98, if one goes, they all go.
What exactly makes you trust that when Explorer is restarted it's not working 100% again whereas gnome bar is..do you have any proof or is this just a 'feeling' you get?
In Win2k, well no i don't have any proof, i just have years of experience with that being the case in Win9x. Have you ever know in win98 the explorer dying and somehow comming back where it was stable? I never had, and thats what i expect in win2k. MS has made me distrust all of their products with their shoddy track record. I'll admit, i've been pretty impressed with win2k, but now that i've been using it longer, some quirky things have been starting to appear. Anyway, the reason i do trust the gnome bar is b/c its not required to use the gui. I could operate a WM without it all together. (I stand corrected; a quick experiment shows it is possible to kill the start bar in w2k and still somehow use the computer). But at any rate, when a program has died in windows, restarting it will usually cause it to die again, even if given different inputs. Linux apps tend not to care if they just crashed. I think this has to do with the OS properly cleaning up after an app dies.
All this being said, i will admit, win2k has been pretty good, except for some weird quirkyness. But just about all of MS's other OSes have been pretty crappy, so it will still be a while before i fully trust this one.
Excuse me while I laugh my pants off
I installed it as root (debian, xfree4). I then tried to run it as a user, and it segfaulted without error. Running it as root seemed to fix this (like that's secure).
I then went to a website with a java applet (www.tet.co.uk). It seemed to work, but then I realised I couldn't type anything, and the window wasn't refreshing (except for the applet).
All in all, I'm impressed with AOL here.. they've committed an act of gross faliure to get an open source browser (that works) to work.
Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively. Why 'almost'? Well, the company I work for makes its intranet for IE only, so I have to keep it around. I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
By the way, on Linux, I used Netscape exclusively until KDE2 came out, now I also use Konquerer.
holy shit! 30 megs! my god that's the biggest piece of bloatware I've ever seen.
-neil
"Now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
>>> it's unreasonable to expect 100% quality before release
Are you insane, or just stupid? Why is it unreasonable to expect 100% quality before release?!
It is unreasonable to expect a software package to do everything YOU want it to, sure. But it is NOT unreasonable to expect everything to work as advertised.
Sheesh.
Failure is not an option.
Failure is not an option.
It comes bundled with Windows.
yes i do.
that Netscape has the Shop button just left of the Stop button so when you want to Stop the page you end up in the Shop.
I was on it earlier today. it should be ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/misc/nets cap e/netscape6/...there's no h in misc. The installer will tell you that there was an error retrieving the files (probably due to permissions on ftp.netscape.com). I was too busy to try downloading all the files from the mirror site.
Dracos
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01;) --what a sham.
...with the level of commentray so far. Not with Mozilla.
Yeah, it has it's problems, but I'll take mozilla's problems over's NN4.x's "features" any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I build the web for a living as I suspect that a lot of slashdotters do as well, and so far the posts that have been along the lines of "well, what good does it do me?" belie a very low level of understanding about how important an applictions platform mozilla is, not just how good it is at rendering pages optimized for the horrible hack that NN 4.x is. The web will always be stuck where it is right now if you and I don't demand more, and as someone who builds this stuff, I can tell you for a certianty that mozilla and NN6 are part of that "more".
What I'm getting at is that while it may be fun to poke at the mozilla team from time to time for not producing to IE standards or our lulled standards of what is good, it misses the entire point. Mozilla has been built what the future in mind, so if it seems slower, please remember that when you first grabbed NN 4.x off an FTP you probably thought it was slow as molasses too and wanted your simple world of NN 3 back.
I guess I was just hoping that the slashdot community would get it.
-----------------------
Widgets for the web
Dojo: defanging browsers so you don't have to
I hope this isn't the first "real" release, because it still refuses to use an authenticating proxy properly... and that doesn't look like being fixed any time soon either!
That, and the fact that NS6 (windows) has a nasty, nasty habit of coming to the front every time a page loads. Talk about intrusive.... I may as well not have multitasking at all.
It's sad really. I like the NS4 style of browser much better than IE, it's just technically so poor.
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
"How much truth can advertising buy?" - iNsuRge - AK47
I recal pretty poor net performance when version 4.0 first hit the streets, although that was a long time ago.
I won't be doing it, though. I'm tracking debian woody, and havn't had the time to update it for nearly two weeks, due to working away. There's some new things to pull down this weekend, glibc, XFree86 4.0, Perl 5.6 (hope the dpkg buglet is fixed) and many more. By the time I've got all that, it will be Sunday evening. Oh for ADSL.
It looks like Netscape has but the release up on their FTP server but didn't want it for public viewing yet. At the time it was wide open, now they've made it permission denied until they finally release it.
My view of the Linux version - better than previous Netscape previews but the latest Mozilla nightly is still way ahead. I got a few crashes on this release which I've not had with the latest Mozilla's but overall the Netscape release seems OK.
One prob with the Linux version is it still spouts all the messages to stdout/stderr if you run it in an xterm - for a supposedly released product to say things like "we don't support eBorderStyle - please fix me" seems a bit unprofessional. Perhaps they'll fix this in the next few days before they open up their FTP servers again. I sent feedback to them about it on their feedback form, all they need to do is to get their shell script that starts mozilla-bin to redirect all output to /dev/null not exactly a high risk fix.
Anyway sorry for the disappointent caused, this FTP server worked for hours after I submitted the story
Dave
shall we have a poll to see which crashes more often?
--- LOTR!!!
Alternatively you might as well just go here and download the latest Mozilla builds which is better in all respects (unless you need AOL IM integrated with your browser) and then just get the Netscape throbber from a N6 preview release and swap it with the Mozilla ones then you do have the best of all worlds.
Once again sorry for letting you all down - it did work for hours after me submitting it but then they must have realised.
Of course IE doesn't take as long to load up, since it is integrated into the shell. This also means is is constantly consuming resources with the IE shell extensions coded into explorer. Sure, if you make a memory-resident portion of Netscape and always have it loaded Netscape will load fast as well.
Enigma
Enigma
Hey, this is not a flame; I deeply respect and admire the effort of the mozilla developers. [And thank my lucky stars that I [hopefully] won't have to boot windows to browse the web one day]
But, I have on several occasions downloaded the mozilla builds, and have found mozilla to be ungodly slow. I mean, sure, I don't have the fasted computer in the world [AMD K6-3 400Mhz], but yikes! Scrolling is fast, I admit, but gif images stutter horribly while my CPU maxes out. Just selecting drop down menu items is sluggish. Oh well. I'm sure it will improve.
---
man sig
---
the pen is mightier then the sword. the sword is mightier then the court. the court is mightier then the pen.
... but it's worse than ever. I just got it from a mirror site and the installer crashes with:
./netscape-installer :0.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
/. effect. I even tried grabbing the whole lot and putting it up on my own FTP server, but no joy. Has anyone actually got this to work??
[root@hell netscape-installer]#
Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x3169)!
Gdk-ERROR **: X connection to
[root@hell netscape-installer]#
At least the 4.x series installed before it crashed..........
I modified the config.ini to point to local (UK) FTP mirrors in case of the
Now maybe you do.
The point is to provide people with alternatives. I would think that you, as a linux user, would be painfully aware of how valuable that is.
The idea expressed in your first post came across to me as (simplified) "because most people use IE on Win32 and Mozilla/Konquerer/whatever on *nix, there is no point to Netscape releasing a new product." I find this incredibly silly at best.
I was not implying that you are a Microsoft fan, I was stating that the "we know what user's really want" philosophy parallels what a lot of people claim to hate about Microsoft, yet they turn around and do the same thing in regards to their own preferences and prejudices. That sort of hypocrisy gets my dander up. I'm sorry if that was not your meaning, but that was how it came across.
along with MIPSpro 7.2.1.3
http://support.s gi. com/colls/patches/tools/relstream/index.html
No major super-huge changes, lots of small fixes and improved support for Octane2 VPro gfx and Onyx/Origin 3000 hardware. Gotta love an OS like this that can tame a 512 processor Origin 3000 with 1 TB RAM yet still work great on my Indy!
What a crock. You are assuming you have this wonderful idea of what is best for everyone. Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Wow, go for the jugular why don't you? I'm just expressing an opinion, not dictating the choice of browser you use. The level of vitriol in your post is hardly warranted now is it?
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively.
Good for you.
I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Strange, I've never had any problems like that in any of the versions of IE I've used on any of the Windows platforms. Of course anecdotal evidence doesn't really constitute a valid argument either way.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
As I said earlier, good for you. If you prefer the user interface then that's great, I'm not trying to convert you to IE. But why does the integration of IE with the operating system count as a negative point if you're already using Windows? You've already got the requisite components that IE uses loaded into memory anyway, as other parts of the system use them.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
*sigh* I didn't say I was right did I? All I was talking about was market share and public perception. People are free to use whichever browser they wish, and the majority of them are using Internet Explorer. That was the point I was making.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
Right. I don't even have Windows on my machine at home any more. Obviously a big Microsoft fan aren't I? You need to calm down and realise that your choice of browser isn't tied to how good a person you are, and that if someone says that more people are using IE than Netscape, it's not a personal attack on you.
Jon Erikson, IT guru
If you're running one of those "mem cleaners" of course it will take ages to load up - every time netscape loads some data the mem program forces it to be pages to disk. They're designed to be run those infrequently and *before* you load your program.
Likewise, the ability to dynamically move transparent objects over a page is exactly where Mo/Netscape excel, and IE will again be behind "the bleeding edge."
Unfortunately AOL 6 is still IE based. Atr least the current betas are. AOL for Linux [used in Gateway set top boxes] is Linux based though.
I downloaded it from the mirror posted in the comments, but from the looks of things, it's still not the official release. It's got Mozillaness all over it, and the credits in the about window were blank. Also, it has a build number from yesterday.
It looks like they were just bundeling it up, and it leaked onto the server by mistake...
For those who were asking about whether it is heavier on the memory side then Mozilla, on NT (ick) it weighed in at 30 megs, and Mozilla is running in 20.
I doubt I'm going to install it on Linux at home, but would be interested in hearing how it runs.
-- [ta]
Yep - we also shout out things like :-
"Fuuuuuuucccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk"
some of our web designers have been known to burst into tears of frustration whilst simultaneously banging thier heads against the wall.
I have Netscape installed as Crap-Scape. because it's a pile of fetid steaming dingo's turd.
Who needs Netscape 6 when we've got Mozilla for Linux and Ie for win32 ?
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Since Mozilla is possible to launch next to netscape I use the old stable 4.73 for mail (/usr/lib/netscape/netscape -mail) and such and autoinstall (ncftpget ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/m ozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz)
the latest Mozilla build every night for my browsing pleasure. It's only crashed once so far and that is more stable than IE on my Win2000 machine.
the sluggishness is because the UI is implemented with xul which is the source of all that is evil in this world.
DOS
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Damn, and if I knew I could be *selling* my low ID, I'd have been on ebay long ago.
Bidding starts at $5k!
(Score: -1, Offtopic)
1st Law Of Networking: Loose ends are bad, termination is good.
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
...These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program... I used to have this problem too (back in my bad ol' NT daze) - turned out to be dodgy Matrox display drivers. I got updated drivers, the problem went away...
The point is to provide people with alternatives. I would think that you, as a linux user, would be painfully aware of how valuable that is.
I wasn't arguing that more alternatives are a bad thing, obviously for applications they definitely are. My point was more that even on Linux, Mozilla would seem to be the preferable choice - same code base but more up to date and having fixed the problems that Netscape 6 has been so heavily criticised for. The AOL on Linux angle is something I'd forgotten about and makes this a little bit more logical.
Of course it seems as though YMMV. And you really hit the spot with the Netscape-loving moderators, that's for sure :)
Jon Erikson, IT guru
The Sun JRE breaks other browser's support for Java. I would highly recommend against it.
fslg503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8686503-985-8
...actually, I had Sun's JRE already installed and it automatically picked it up and used that. You may have to actually run the installer to get this effect (rather than a nightly build which is just the files you unpack yourself).
Of course anecdotal evidence doesn't really constitute a valid argument either way.
It does in this case, because what he's talking about is what's best for him, not what's best in general. So I think that that's enough evidence for him to make his decision on what he's going to use.
This is a quick guide for those who are saying Mozilla doesnt have JAVA and SSL support, explaining how to enable both under Win32. If anyone can explain how to get it working under linux, feel free to add to this.
Download the lastest Mozilla build (check comments on www.mozillazine.org for build information)
unzip the build into c:\mozilla (or whatever you wish)
Get hold of the Sun JAVA2 1.3 JRE (Java Runtime Environment)
Install the Sun JRE, and reboot the system.
Copy the 3 Java Plugin files (npjava12.dll, npjava11.dll, npjava32.dll) from the JRE directory to the Mozilla Plugins directory ( bin/plugins).
This will enable full Java support.
To enable SLL and https support, run Mozilla and serch the menus for a menu itm called "Install PSM" this will take you to a web page on IPlanet and at the bottom is a button saying "Install Netscape PSM for Windows" (there is also a install netscape PSM for Linux too).
click the button, and the PSM will automatically download and install itself, then restart Mozilla.
Thats it, SSL + JAVA 2 working.
What you are seeing with the redraw problems is almost certainly a display driver problem.
Correct, moderate this up... The problem is that IE tends to use the latest Windows features (which are not necessarely documented) and thus may be "better" than other software modules on your system.
On the other hand, my Netscape 4.72 on Redhat just crashed again when I tried to post this the first time... oh well.
When I clicked on the link to download the Windows version, Internet Explorer instantly froze up.
daed si luap