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The Ordinary Slashdot User Answers
1) Girls (Score:5, Interesting)
by Stoke (stoke@excite.com)
At the age when most teens seem to be crazy over the opposite sex and dating, how is your situation with girls? Assuming you don't have a girlfriend, do you feel better off without one taking away your free time, or is it something you wish for?
Clinton:
No girlfriend for the unknown_lamer. I'm not cool enough. I really wish I had one, because here is my daily schedule:
- 6am: wake up
- 7am: time for school
- 3pm: home from school
- 4:40pm: homework done
- 6pm: food
- 6:30-10:30 - music / irc / tv
- 11pm: sleep
2) Just Curious... (Score:5, Interesting)
by Brazilian Geek (akajita@spamyourmama.bigfoot.com)
Are you now or have you ever been a Slashdot troll? If so, please comment on the feeling of being a troll, if not, what is your favorite troll?
Clinton:
I am not, and never have been a troll (but I might be one in the future). Trolling is bad (except when the troll is modded up to 5:funny). I try to only post a comment when I have something worthwhile to say. And, I don't like losing my precious karma(12 whole points). I read at level 2, and I usually don't see any trolls (I used to read at -1...and my browser kept crashing.). IMHO, all trolls are equally funny. Except for the goatse.cx ones.
3) What are your plans for college? (Score:5, Interesting)
by Zachary Kessin (zkessin@script-fu.org)
If you have thought about it what do you want to do after High School? Do you have any ideas about college or further education?
Clinton:
I really want to go to college one day. And, I really want a job. Being poor isn't fun when you have a 4 and a half year old box (and other people are saying their "ancient" p2/500 is slow..try having the newest game consoles be faster than your box).
4) What are you listening to? (Score:5, Interesting)
by geophile (jao@mediaone.net)
When I was 15, my father said, "how can you listen to this? It's noise! There's no melody, it's just boom boom boom!". He was talking about the Beatles. Today, I am horrified to find myself saying the same thing about all rap/hip-hop/whatever, Britney Spears, N Sync, and just about everything else I hear that's been recorded recently. I don't buy much new music, but lately I've been buying CDs to replace my old LPs (The Who, Genesis, and yes, The Beatles).
At least there's Elvis (C, not P), They Might Be Giants, and Komeda.
Is it just me, or my g-g-g-generation, or does new music really suck? What are you listening to?
Clinton:
Pop music isn't bad. It's worse than that. It is horrible. I say, down with pop. I listen to extreme death metal and punk. So, I own the first two limp bizkit albums..but they don't such really bad. I really like independent bands from sites like riffage.com (which is dead now) and BeSonic.com(which is alive and well). I really like bands like cannibal corpse, cryptopsy, NiN, orgy, the offspring, NoFX, rage against the machine, and anything really loud. The words don't matter to me, its all about the instruments. Bands like cannibal corpse == the bringer of evil, but their guitar work is amazing. So, I guess you could argue(and maybe win) that the music I listen to is noise..but at least it isn't filth disguised as good- wholesome- music- for- the- whole- family. It tells you it is bad (but you just have to love the guitar work and the little complexities of the music).
5) How is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
by dbarclay10 (dbarclay10_NOSPAM_@_MAPSON_yahoo.ca)
Hey, what's up? :) I'm not a teenager, but I am a Linux user, and a rather dedicated one. I've come to the realization over the past year or so that, indeed, MS Office is actually a good software packager. Well, relatively speaking, of course ;) I find it fast, relatively lean, feature-complete, and more-or-less stable. I was wondering if you yourself have a particular software favorite that doesn't run under Linux?
Clinton:
My favorite software that doesn't run under linux...starcraft. Or rather, all of the blizzard games. They are amazing, and I love them. Why can't blizzard port them! I'd pay for all of them again if I could play them under linux (WINE can play them..but at a really low frame rate, and Battle.net doesn't work).
6) If you were stranded on a desert island (Score:5, Funny)
by dattaway (dattaway@attaway.org)
...and could only have one cd to load a blank computer, what would it be?
Clinton:
Well, Debian GNU/Linux! Well, that is almost 5 cds now..but I can count it as one, right? It comes with everything I'll ever need too.. with about 6000 packages to choose from.
7) Childhood toys? (Score:5, Insightful)
by Ralph Wiggam (ralph@springfield.com)
Pretty much every geek I've asked remembers loving construction type toys as children. I know my fave was Capsella because of the motors and gears, but there was always a big box of Legos in my house, too.
Did you play with toys like that in your 5-12 years?
What were your favorites?
Clinton:
I liked to play with legos. And k'nex. But I discovered the computer at age 7... and learned some BASIC when I was 8 (using a precomputer 1000 from vtech. Thank-you vtech). My mom brought home a laptop from NASA when I was 7 (end of 1993), and it was hooked up to the internet. I got a book on how to use lynx and SLIP and stuff a few weeks later, and I was on the net using a dialup SLIP @ 14.4k baud, on a win 3.1 running 486 from IBM (it was nice..except win 3.1 confused me). So, I guess my favorite toy was that little government owned laptop..then my mac (The mac actually is what got me really in computing..the learning curve was so small that I was able to explore deeper with things like ResEdit, MPW, and macsbugs easier), and finally my humble 166Mhz linux box (which I got a new 20GB drive for tuesday..finally, free space).
8) Times Change (Score:5, Interesting)
by HRbnjR (chris@hubick.com)
When I was a geek in high school (10 years ago)... it was not cool at all. The computer club was definitely frowned upon by the "cool" people. My question is, with the rise of the internet, and computers becoming pervasive in "normal" peoples lives...has this changed? Or have geeks gained some respect?
I read an article somewhere (Wired?) that said geeks were the new sex symbols...doctors and lawyers used to represent power and success and where what men stereotypically wanted to be, and what women stereotypially chased after. But now, as it is suggested, do you think geeks have invaded some of this position? Do you see any attitudes like this in school?
Clinton:
I don't really think geeks have taken the position of doctors, but I think we have moved up a bit. I'm not taunted anymore, I'm just understood. People understand I'm not like them, and they don't care. They are still a few people who won't stop making fun or picking up me, but I can deal with them (because I'm bigger than them now). I really have noticed that "normal" people have invaded my High School CS class.. most of them are trying to learn C, and can barely use AOL. It is very sad (and the teacher are worse... quote from teacher: "Linux!? That's just a graphical shell on top DOS like windows is. Everything has to use MS-DOS to run" and "Since when has their been a version of UNIX for the intel processor? What? Since the early 90s? What is this BSD UNIX you speak of?").
But still, I get made fun of sometimes for using linux ("Linux sucks. You suck"). But I can ignore it, since a few of my friends use linux as well (hmm...at my school I know of..4 linux users. 2 debian ones (mike and I) and a BSD user..but only Mike and I in the CS class). My rant has gone on long enough now. Yep, everyone has gone up the ladder. Nope, IMHO geeks aren't like doctors.. if the "average" geek is anything like me.. (the one who uses IRC 11 hours a day, has lots of fun and gets excited after being on slashdot (and makes his non-geek friends read it too), and doesn't ever go outside).
9.)Now answer honestly! (Score:4, Interesting)
by OlympicSponsor
In 8th/9th/10th grade I was unpopular (hung out with the losers, didn't go to dances, etc). 11th and 12th grades I was merely neutral (went to some dances, knew a lot of people, but I wasn't a jock or anything). I bring this up not out of relevance, but to show that "I've been there."
My question is: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? What I mean by that is: Many geek teenagers exhibit anti-social characteristics, including: poor hygiene, little or no conversation skills and attitudes (for instance know-it-all-ism) that are off-putting. Do adolescents get into computers because they don't get along and don't understand why, so turn to computers (books, D&D, whatever) as something they can understand/master? Or do adolescents who get into computers/whatever use up so much brain capacity with intellectually challenging tasks they can't learn how to interact with others? Or some third thing?
Clinton:
Well, I think I became anti-social first. They said I had ADD, and they put me on ritalin. I promptly stopped interacting with other people (after I got off of it, I started returning to normalcy). People made fun of me because I never went anywhere, and stayed inside all of the time. So, I got that NASA laptop, and I started to use the internet (wait..that came first..). So, the computer didn't make me anti-social. Yes, I was a know-it-all for a long time. And I have a habit of interrupter people (although it isn't nearly as bad as it used to be). But, I'm not that anti-social. I have friends. The people with yellow and green hair are my friends (you have to love punk rockers), the l33t hax0rs at school, the somewhat-suicidal ones, and my fellow geeks. I am happy. Isn't that all that matters? The pop culture people look happy, but they aren't. They need music and icons to tell them who to be.
10.)Why a new Linux distribution? (Score:4, Insightful)
by Alan Shutko (ats@acm.org)
There are tons of Linux distributions, and each one has a different reason for being. Most distributions seem geared to one major point: learning how to make a distro, supporting a specific niche like small routers, being easier for Linux novices.
What's your vision for MentalUNIX? Why do you feel that you need to make your own distribution, and what specifically will your distribution do to make it fulfill that need better than existing offerings.
(The website seems to lack a clear description of the overall goal, though it has some mentions of new setup tools.)
Clinton:
BTW, a new, actually up to date site will be uploaded once SCP over at sourceforge starts to work again. Lots of the stuff like mdevelop weren't really my idea, but they aren't new programs. Mdevelop is more of a system built around existing apps. Imagine Glimmer + DDD + glade + a lisp interpreter all integrated. IMHO, linux lacks a really good IDE that can do everything you need..edit the code, debug it, and create an interface. Lots of programs come close(like emacs and code crusader), but most can't design an interface / debug your program internally.
My general vision for it is as the Universal distribution -- one that follow the FHS and LSB to the letter, and one that can use all package formats. The package format issue really bugs me. It scares away lots of people(almost scared me away). You have source packages, debs, rpms, slis, slackware tar.gz, and lots more. If one tool could install all of them, then life would be a lot easier for a new user.
Also, installation is getting easier every day now, so it will eventually have a nice installer, but I hope to make it better than the rest. Instead of dumping all of the packages in the entire distro on the user, they only get what they should need(and the all powerful kernel hacker can select exactly what they want). So, a new user who selected the "home" install wouldn't get things like gcc or apache. Now, not giving them gcc is a bit hard to justify, but mpkg will be able to handle source packages(the autoconfigure type), so it would grab the compiler when it encountered the source package / when you wanted to recompile a source deb / srpm / whatever).
Another really big part of mentalUNIX is making maintaining the distro easier. Mpkg will allow the maintainer (or user) to recompile an entire package tree with one command, for any platform their compiler can compiler for. So, it would be feasible for mentalunix to be available in specific versions for every x86 architecture, and make porting to things like PPC easier (you would still have lots of stuff to worry about, but you would know what packages failed to recompile, and you could focus on getting them to compile for the new platform). And, a maintainer could recompile one package, or multiple packages for more than one target platform with one command as well. The maintainer utilities are a big thing, and are going to be the first to be focused on. Making it simple for the maintainer to maintain helps to overcome the fear of trying to help join a project and it makes it easier for developers to make precompiled(or not) packages easier to produce.
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ASCII ART
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"Ain't it l33t?"
All views expressed are IMHO.
Because MHO is better than yours.
unknown_lamer
The plural of Kleenex is obviously either:
Kleenexen or Kleenii
I'm bored, so I'm going to give me thoughts on a couple of those questions as well... Woot! Another metal head =) In reference to the questions about being outcasts due to being a geek, if you factor metal into the equation, that would account for some of the frowns, hehe. People just don't understand metal, they can't seem to get over the "yelling" (which is usually just distortion and not yelling at all)... You know what's really funny about that? If you let someone listen to some metal, just a clip that's all instrumental, and do NOT tell them that it is metal (if you do, they'll immediately say it's terrible), they'll say they liked it... Then expand that little clip to include some vocals, amazing how their attitude changes =) Personally, I listen to it for the music, too, especially the guitar, I am a guitarist after all. There is absolutely no other form of music that is as complex as metal. As for that "which came first" question, I used to be a hardcore jock... I actually **shudders** listened to popular music too... The reason why I got into computers is because there was never anyone around to play football with... you needed at least 4 people and I could never find more than 1 or 2... Just doesn't work... So, when I couldn't play football, I'd mess with my Apple IIe. I quickly learned BASIC, and from there, I've picked up a whole slew of languages and OSes quite easily. I wouldn't really consider myself anti-social, but, I think that from my experience, certain things that "normal" people do seem, I dunno, stupid... I think using my mental capacity is much more fun than doing what "normal" people do, and therefore, I turn down certain opportunities to go out... That doesn't mean I never go out, it just means that I'll only do certain things. Anywho, I've gotsta go... Sorry if I spelt something wrong or messed something up, I'm kinda rushed here. So, there's my comments =) Bye, hehe.
Of course, I'm not victimized, I'm one of the elite that is doing the grinding. heh.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this... Unless he's planning to go through the Open Group's UNIX certification tests and trademark licensing ($BIGNUM), he needs to make a name change. They've been very picky about the use of 'UNIX' in the past, because of the trademark protection regulations. I'd suggest something like Mental Linux (since he's are basing it off Linux + LSB etc.) IMHO, I think that his development skills would probably be better focused on being a Debian developer or such. In fact, 'MentalUNIX' sounds like a perfect Debian: full LSB compliance (which Debian is aiming for), using any package format (it is possible to use rpm's (man alien) or rolling your own (man stow) in Debian but it's not perfect)...
;)
I was quite happy to hear he uses Debian. When I read the post about what one CD you'd take, during the question session, my answer was 'a Debian cd'. As long as I had gcc, perl, and vi I could be completely satisfied.
StarCraft and Diablo (1 not 2) can be played under VMWare just fine. If you willing to spend the hundred dollars or so for it, it is very nice.
Have you read my journal today?
well, if you look at it, a republic with a free market does tend to be the most natural thing so far... attempts to impose alternative societal structures haven't been so successful.. not that we'll try again in the future.
-Stu
better question: why don't you have the self esteem or skills that would enable you not to CARE if a company fires you?
oh, I forgot, the pain of being a vitriolic cynic is less than the pain of being an acheiver...
-Stu
love is a fist.
-Stu
/*
Many geek teenagers exhibit
anti-social characteristics, including: poor hygiene, little or no conversation skills and attitudes (for instance
know-it-all-ism) that are off-putting.
*/
Read Cryptonomicon. While I'm not a brain like the fictional Lawrence Waterhouse, I feel that sense of detachment from reality most of the time. It's kind of depressing when I think about it, but it's also kind of liberating. Nice to be able to ponder an idea while annoying things like Real Life(TM) are going on.
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
"Extreme Death Metal" *is* pop -- at least, it seems to be mass-produced for an eager and huge American audience. IMHO...
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I believe until either this or last year, they didn't accept "Linux" as an answer for "Give an example of an operating system."
That's because the correct answer is "GNU/Linux".
That really irks me badly. Idiot lusers who want kids to conform to their definition of "normal" so use the magic bullet - put 'em on drugs.
Tell that to someone I know whose life has been completely fucked up because he refuses to take his Ritalin. You need it sometimes, okay?
Omigawd. When I was his age we were marking up APL cards using HB2 pencils and sending them off to the one computer for entire State Education Department.
Slashdot: Where nerds gather to pool their ignorance
what irks me is everyone's total bashing of the real benifits of ritalin in some cases. Yes it is overdiagnosed but it certainly helped me. I could not concentrate in school at all. This was before A.D.D. was a buzz word anyway. But they put me on ritalin 5mg twice a day and I was finally able to focus and made very very good grades until I got to public school... it was bad boy time for a little while... hanginin out with morons... i learned my lesson and went back to private school, took my ritalin and graduated salutatorian. Through this time I learned to deal with my problem without the use of ritalin and am now very capable of concentrating without it. But I do thank my doctors for prescribing it to me. It helped so very much.
Assume "average" means "in the middle 10%". If you measure, say, the IQ of people in any group, it will probably fall along a bell curve, so the IQ of the "average american" is about 100 +/- 5.
Now if you take the bell curve for how much americans can bench press, and take out the middle 10% you'll have how much the average american can bench press. But assuming there's no correlation between bench-pressing and IQ tests, 1% of the american populace is "average" for both of those. Add a third measurement, and 1 in 1000. get up to 9 measurements and it's one in a billion. Which means, that if you measure americans in 7 different things (wealth, IQ, the amount they can bench-press, their political affiliation, sexual activity, height, hair color) the odds of them being "average" in all, are 10 million to one. The "average man" (or "average anything" does not exist it's a fictional person you cmpare everyone to, but the more closely you look (the more variables you study) the harder it is to find someone who's really average in all of them.
- You may have learned less, but would other people in your class have had an opportunity to learn MORE?
I met a psychologist a few years back who suggested putting all the smart/disruptive people in a special
school so they couldn't screw up the learning opportunities for everyone else. He was ridiculed for this
non-PC idea, but can you suggest a better one?
Yes. Train teachers better. A good teacher knows how to deal with those sorts of kids (like me) and give them stuff to do so they aren't bored off their asses!That's all.
There comes a time in every man's life when he must say, "No mother! I do not want any more Jell-O!"
High School sucks. There was a Princeton study some time in the middle 90s that showed that there was NO link between good grades in High School and success anywhere at any time. I'm glad you made salutatorian. It means a lot to some people and if you were helped by it, that's great (I'm not being sarcastic). But, it means nothing.
.
I had a 2.9 GPA in High School. My teachers hated me (execpt for the GOOD ones: Mrs. Jago, you're a GOD) because I didn't do their stupid busy work. They wanted to put me on ritalin just to shut me up when I complained that I wasn't learning anything in their moronic classes. Thank god they didn't (my parents are smart). I took five AP exams and got 5s on all of them, and got 1470 on my SAT (800 Verbal, 670 Math). I had a decent time in High School and a great senior year. But, once again: High School sucks. It MEANS NOTHING
I'm now at UC Santa Cruz (sophomore, double major in Physical Anthropology and International Politics) and have a 3.9 GPA. My profs are actually smart human beings and I do the work they assign because it's not stupid.
To all you High School kids out there: if you're having a shitty time in High School, don't worry, it gets a lot better. If you're having a good time in High School, just wait, it gets even better. Don't loose hope.
There comes a time in every man's life when he must say, "No mother! I do not want any more Jell-O!"
- Maybe you didn't belong on Ritalin, but it really irks me when people start trying to decide
for other people that drugs are not good for anyone... No two cases are quite the same - some people might not need drugs...
No. Most people don't need them. As stated eariler, 74% of ADD cases are inaccurately diagnosed. Have you seen what ritalin does to someone who doesn't need it? It's awful. It really is. And three quarters of those who are on it don't need it. So yes. We do assume. But, chances are, we're right.There comes a time in every man's life when he must say, "No mother! I do not want any more Jell-O!"
You said something about being poor. This is a bonus! If you get everything right away, then you lose some very important things as a result. I was poor also, but I wanted things, so I either built them, repaired broken ones, or worked for the money to buy what I wanted. This ethic is a good thing, and has served me well. (I am 32 now --bummer) Be creative, and enjoy this time in your life. You only get it once!
Your early experience sounds a lot like mine. Got started computing on a Trash80 w/ 8K RAM & cassette! I think I was about 10-12 at the time. The first time I wrote a program and had it work was great, yet at the same time there was this discord in my life because I knew that I had accomplished something really good, and had nobody to tell that understood its meaning. This did tell me where my life was going to go though. Don't underestimate the value of that! Most of the people I grew up with have no clue as to what they wanted to do. As a result they are doing whatever they got started doing. This is not to say that they have done poorly. Most of them have done well, but they don't enjoy and feel passion for what they do.
Funny thing about music. Seems that the younger generation needs something annoying to the previous generation in order to have something unique to relate to. You have a pretty high percentage chance of calling your future sons music noise. Early in life I got to know personally some people involved with music. (Mainly teachers) This was a good experience as they taught me to open my ears, and listen. Almost any genre of music has something that will appeal. (Country sucks hard no matter how you look at it) Take time once in a while, and listen to lots of new music. Go to just one Symphony performance while you are young, and can appreciate it. You also have the benefit of Napster right now. Use it! Easy to sample. As long as you look the new stuff over, you will not lose touch completely with the generation to come. Understanding a little about old music gives you perspective, and deepens appreciation of the new. I have kids now, and I can say that 90 percent of what they listen to is garbage, but that other 10 percent is surprising, and gives us common ground. Makes being friends with my kids easier.
Your responses brought back some good memories, and were interesting. Thanks! Have a good life. You should pester Taco about doing a follow up in a couple of years or so.
Blogging because I can...
We all think Cowboy Neal is a big dick.
I see these constant Slashdot references to Cowboy Neal and the only real-world relevance I can seem to find is a Neal Cassidy who was an author of somekind. (At least that's what I find with Google)
I wish I knew enough to have an opinion about Cowboy Neal.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
That's funny. Most of the cell phone conversation's I've heard consist of:
"Hi, I'm on a cell phone"
Except on planes right before takeoff. Then they consist of:
"Hi, my flight's about to takeoff!"
I don't think I've ever met anyone on the right hand side of the bell curve who uses one outside of emergencies.
I wouldn't call it "bad science" necessarily to diagnose someone with ADD. In certain situations, ADD is definately a serious problem. In a certain amount of those cases, things like Ritilin might be necessary. But the truth is, most diagnoses are incorrect -- and most properly diagnosed cases do not need drug such as Ritilin to solve the problem. Severe cases might, but other cases can be solved with somewhat more physical / natural means.
Actually, I assume that like most teenagers he considers weekends to be so obvious free time, it goes with out saying... just wait till he gets his first job where he gets to wear a pager.
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In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
You just forgot the most common reason:
d) Abusive or otherwise lousy parents.
I am 20 years old and have been in computers since I was 6 years old. Started programming in basic at 7. Growing up I can say I was not anti-social throughout my school years but I cannot say I was popular. I never got hasseled because I was smart with computers. I remember in my C programming class I was trading homework with a straight A student. He would do my math homework and I would do his programming homework. I got along with the 'Cool' group and even infuenced some of them to take up computing. One ended up getting a job as a programmer after high school. As for the other crowds, I was almost welcome anywhere, no enimies. I listened to the hard rock so I was welcome with the 'losers' and 'goth' crowd and because of my big head back then I was welcome with the Jocks.
However it was often difficult for me to find where I belonged, because I was welcome in all the groups I suffered a major identity crisis and changed who I hung out with almost weekly. In the end I attached to the teachers and caused me to mature quickly. With that under by belt it caused me to almost ignore my senior class and only showed up to school for the paper at the end. So when he says that geeks have not become doctors, just have moved up a notch, it was not true in my case...we just don't get hassled like we used to.<br><br>
And the point I originally was going to post on - I'm a geek who uses linux, bsd, etc... and I listen to hip-hop and rap. It's not my main choice of music but if I'm in the mood nothing can beat it =c)
Well poop, forgot to select html formatted =cP
I don't remember what this scenario is called, but it goes something like this:
1. Something must be done
2. This is something
3. Therefore we will do this.
Fallacy of Four Terms, with Equivocation
A few examples: "Nothing is better than steak (sorry vegetarians). Hot dogs are better than nothing. Therefore, hot dogs are better than steak." "Nobody can do it. I am nobody. Therefore, i can do it!"
1. My dog has four legs.
2. A cat has four legs
3. Therefore my dog is a cat.
That's an Undistributed Middle, a different kind of logical fallacy.
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perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
Good essay, points well made, but you forgot to state your Hypothesis. I'm sorry, but I just can't give you an A for such a blatant oversight. Please try to stay focused on your work.
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Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
Where do these statistics come from? Most people I know diagnosed with ADD have ADD. I have questions about a few but most are clear cases. So clear it's scary sometimes. I have severe ADD combined with a great deal of smarts and if it wasn't for my adderall (dextroamphetamine -- JFK brand speed) I couldn't survive. School was a joke for me but work is completly different. I think most mental diseases are a joke, ADD is just the current target. People get all worked up over the same as cocaine classification. Drugs arn't good or bad, they just are. If the shoe fits...deal with it.
Everyone wants to believe that they're different/special/smarter/victimized.
I'm glad to see that unknown_lamer isn't *such* a lamer! Personally I don't think that IRC'ing with friends during one's free time is worse than sitting around drinking cider with one's friends - which what what I was doing when I was 15.
:-)
Good to see an appreciation for punks is still around
Finally, I was glad to see a better explanation of MentalUnix. Personally I'm not sure that the project isn't too ambitious - but hey, if you can't try and ambitious project and fail spectacularly when your 15, when can you try one? (OK - so it might succeed too!).
Congrats to unknown_lamer for being more mature than the average Anonymous Coward!
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
You may have learned less, but would other people in your class have had an opportunity to learn MORE?
I met a psychologist a few years back who suggested putting all the smart/disruptive people in a special school so they couldn't screw up the learning opportunities for everyone else. He was ridiculed for this non-PC idea, but can you suggest a better one?
Hey all you dot-com millionaires (I'm sure there are a few left), buy this guy a new computer. Or better yet, send him a grand and let him build a new Athlon box.
-B
Lucky for us though that a vast majority of the country is willing to put up with that as long as they get their TV and Rush on the radio. Who else would mow our lawns, babysit our kids, and wash our cars. It's good to be rich it sucks to be a slave.
so which rush are we talking about?
yes, i know what you meant.
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If I had any mod points I'd mod you up just for working in an A Team reference =)
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there were size copies of the graphics card drivers installed
I meant to type, "six copies", not "size copies". Device manager in Win98 listed six copies of the same driver.
Thats probably one of the only things I miss about my school years - loads and loads of free time. I could spend whole afternoons and evenings just programming, lounging around, whatever. Even sitting in some of the classes at school seems to me now like it was a lot of free time. And it was, really - I *never* did homework, and most of the classes at school, the lessons are dragged out really really slowly for all the average-intelligence people to keep up. Sheez, in school I remember we spent a few weeks just on the basics of differentials .. university was thankfully a far more reasonable pace.
It seems to me like its gotten worse as well. When I was in school we learnt programming skills (e.g. Logo.) Why dumb it down?
this is much like a car- you really give a damn how the gearing system interacts? you just know not to drop it into reverse at 70mph. (i hope :)
I don't know how a car works, and you're right, in general, I don't need to know. Except, of course, when my car needs servicing/repairs - the mechanics sniff out quickly who is clueless, and it's $$$$$. The sad thing is, the computer industry has now gone exactly the same way - probably worse, in fact, because demand outstrips supply by far in the comp industry, so comp businesses have no incentive to behave. Maybe its not so bad in America, but here in South Africa, its almost impossible to buy a computer and not get ripped off. Some places literally don't even sell the system they advertise (e.g. putting a TNT in when the system is specced as GeForce2, or a Celeron, when the system is specced as PIII.) Most people never figure it out, they don't know enough to. And many of the places have that lame open-up-your-own-computer-and-lose-your-warranty red-paint-on-the-screws crap, so all upgrades must go through them.
So if there is one reason for Joe Computer User to know how computers work, its so that they don't get ripped off when buying/repairing a computer. At least in the car sales and repair industry there is a lot more competition at the moment (and in the states I believe 'lemon laws' to protect consumers) and generally more people understand cars. But few people understand computers. So when they're told that its quite normal for computers to crash so often, they believe it, and think computers "just are like that". They don't know any better. These are probably the main reasons for educating computer users.
"Job security" is a poor reason to keep people in the dark, and is exactly the same as the technique of keeping computing standards proprietary as a business advantage. And you're talking about teaching computing "ETHICS" in the same breath! :) My job is fairly advanced, C++, 3d graphics, simulation etc so I doubt that educating more people about computers would threaten my job, personally. In fact I keep telling my boss we need *more* people :)
Should I comment on this? Is this really an average user? I donnt think so.
Hmm, so where does an Intel 486 SX33 w/ 8Mb RAM acting as my home network server for 5 ppl feature in this? Oh, and it runs like a dream!
---- Robert Anton Wilson: "Belief is the death of intelligence."
This is true. You can't bash personal taste. And I will admit that a few select NiN tunes are mainstream. But if you've heard his newer work (The Fragile), I think you'd have to retract that "NiN is Pop" statement. POPular, maybe, but Trent isnt about album sales. I'm sure he likes music, but we aint gonna see him on a lunchbox.
I'd buy a Trent doll, tho...
PS: Here's the obvious point where the AC Troll whips out the 'faggot' remarks.
I keep trying to pick fights, but I can't shake this Excellent karma.
Err...I meant he likes money.
I keep trying to pick fights, but I can't shake this Excellent karma.
While I don't think that Clinton's musical tastes are typical of Slashdot users, I do know that there is a growing group of us out there. I think to say that Clinton is a typical Slashdot user is probably quite inaccurate.
I would also like to say that as a visibly "extreme" punk rocker the geek community can look at me just as scournfully as the rest of the world. I was the co-founder of a LUG, and always felt that some people did not come back because of me. I have also visited other LUGs and experienced some odd looks... "you don't belong here".
I think most "geeks" are accepting of anyone, but there is definately an element of "geeks don't look like you" in the community.
If you are interested in punk and unix, check out http://www.unixpunx.org
and #unixpunx on irc.unixpunx.org or efnet.
I'm not really a metal kid(more into punk and emo) but you should checkout some of these bands:
Old Cave-In: Until your heart stops is one of the best metal CDS ever.Coalesce,Combat Wounded Veteran, Isis,Nhile,Pig Destroyer, Discordants Axis(sic),Purity's Failure, Converge, Bane and a bunch of other bands like that. You can get all this stuff at Interpunk or No Idea Records which is definatley cheaper($6-8 a CD).
My, that was a yummy slime mold!
--Moss
This is a
Now there are two of them.
--Moss
This is a
Now there are two of them.
There are two _____.
Ah, the Mac IIfx. I've still got mine lying around somewhere. Beautiful machine. Incredibly advanced design for its time. So advanced, unfortunately, that none of the free un*x porters were able to figure out the details of its hardware. That computer must have set my Linux experience back a good two or three years, but I still love it.
.sig.
--Moss
This is a
Now there are two of them.
--Moss
This is a
Now there are two of them.
There are two _____.
Tell me, is there a hyphen between anal and retentive?
-- queef
The "Average Slashdot User" runs Windows.
it is pathetic to actually think that there is a profound message in a certain genre of music - especially if its nonsense like punk music.
Who are you to judge punk music? If you don't even like it, how can you possibly be qualified to judge it at all? You either have little or no exposure to it, or you listen extensively to music which you hate. You tell me which it is. Actually, don't tell me, I don't care.
but please elucidate how music profoundly affects how you live. I'd like to hear.
When the hell did I ever use the word 'profound'? You're the one who used that word. You need to get back in touch with this conversation, I don't think you're paying attention. Please review the posts before replying so you can remember what I have said.
However, if you didn't really mean 'profound', and just want to hear 'how music...affects how you live', then...you obviously are one of those easy-listening people who doesn't really like (or understand) music. And I should state also that I never said 'music affects how I live'. I said it affects my personality, and has given me insights (thought I'd summarize what I've said so you don't have to review).
The pop culture people look happy, but they aren't. They need music and icons to tell them who to be.
I don't like pop (at all), but I don't think learning from music is all bad. There are plenty of songs I can think of which have given me insights, unlike pop - which is only about teenage sex/love, money, or how tough it is to be a teenager.
Non-popular Music specifically is mostly angst ridden and personally boring.
Umm...I don't think we are talking about the same 'Non-popular music'. There's a lot of 'Non-popular music' out there...what I'm thinking of isn't 'angst ridden'...and how can you say all 'Non-popular music' is 'personally boring'? Whatever.
I'd rather listen to something like the latest radiohead which really doesn't have a specific message - or classical music just for the enjoyment of listening to musical sound.
Ok...what was your point again?
My point was that while some people form their entire personality based on pop music, which is bad, taking some of your personality from music is not bad. And I'm not necessarily talking about the lyrics, there are other parts to music. You choose your music because it fits your personality. You can't tell me that music doesn't affect how you live at all...ok, I take that back, there are some people who only like 'easy listening' or other background music crap, and don't really like music at all...if you're one of those people, I understand now...
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Is
The third person singular of the substantive verb be, in the indicative mood, present tense; as, he is; he is a man. See Be.
=================
macbert@hcity.net
macbert@hcity.net
http://www.hcity.net/mac
Imagine Glimmer + DDD + glade + a lisp interpreter all integrated. IMHO, linux lacks a really good IDE that can do everything you need.
It seems to me this kid has never seen emacs.
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Genius dies of the same blow that destroys liberty.
Why shouldn't I say, "I need some kleenexes"?
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Genius dies of the same blow that destroys liberty.
I found this comment really insightful - it summarized my own thoughts own popularity/nerdiness/loserosity better than I have ever put them. I always thought that was true, that the pop people are less happy; they're too busy trying to conform and hold their "position" that they forget to just enjoy life. While they're insulting us "geeks" to try and make themselves look better, we're just ignoring them and having fun.
This attitude really drives me nuts.
A *person* is a *person*!
"Popular" people are not all mindless insects, all frantically and desperately trying to doggy-paddle to the top of the social heap, they just have different priorities than you. If you would accept that they don't care about when 2.4 comes out (much less know what 2.4 refers to) , and you don't care how the football game went last weekend, then everybody would be better off.
You might say that they insult "geeks" to make themselves look better, but you do the same thing, stating not only that their lifestyle is worse than yours, but going farther, saying that they are unhappy, which, in my opinion is a far greater insult than simply calling someone a "loser."
The argument is the same in terms of the music issue: Popular vs. "My favorite underground band that nobody's ever heard of." Letting the popularity of music influence your taste, whether positive or negative, still leaves popularity in the equation, which is just what you accuse "pop culture people" of doing.
Maybe instead of speaking so loud about how you don't care what those cool kids think, try doing your own thing, and really not caring about it.
It seems to me that this was not the ordinary slashdot user interview, it was the typical xenophobic, self-congratulating geek interview.
[JACK]
"If God is everywhere, is He in the toilet?"
-- Matt Groening, School is Hell
I like pop, just not popular pop. "Poppy" Beach Boys influenced bands like the Apples in Stereo are great.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
There is something about these two statements which seem contradictory:
Believe me, that is NOT a lot of free time.
And:
Enjoy it while you can.
The second statement implies "Wow! You have FOUR HOURS of free time EVERY DAY? Enjoy it while you can!"
If that is the implication, I disagree 100%. Four hours spent fucking off every day is four hours that could have been spent doing something useful. Four hours is an obscene amount of free time to have daily. Most WEEKS I don't have four complete hours of fuck-off time.
If you were writing a 125,000 word novel (approximately 250 pages), and only managed 500 words an hour, it would take you less than three months to finish, with your amount of free time.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
"They bring it on themselves"
Yes. I know several people who say they "don't know" why they are constantly being looked at and made fun of when they have a shaved head, wear anti-nazi clothing, have words shaved in their heads, and big ear rings right through teh center of their nose.
"It only happens to, you know, that kind of person"
No.
"Well, don't go out after dark alone [...]"
No. And you're distorting what I wrote. I was talking about making friends with people, not rape and violence. In the implied case people will choose not to be friends with you - that isn't a crime or a violation of space or person.
"Oh, it doesn't matter, the logic is the same: it must have been the victim's fault, right?"
No. The logic isn't the same. Thanks for playing.
"If only someone had told them earlier that their depression was the cause of the scorn of their peers, I'm sure they would have stopped immediately"
Read the last sentence I wrote. Second, depression and scorn of peers doesn't logically follow. Depression (i.e., in my case) resulted in less social interaction, though peers thought I was weird because I did not socially interact with them and was always making negative bitter comments.
Lastly, who said I was playing psychiatrist? I was only describing potential situations (with limited external validation of a 100 sample size). Did I imply in saying that depression is self destructive that not being depressed is a solution? I didn't think so.
The realization that the cause of said depression was not valid in relative magnitude - in my case - ended it. When I stopped being a vitriolic asshole every time I opened my mouth people actually wanted to be my friend too.
Hopefully, ou won't be offended (but i would if someone told it to me). I must say you pretty much are a luser - theres a difference between a geek and nerd. Geek is supposed to be person interested in technology, while nerd is someone who learns lots of unnecesary stuff and is anti-social. In my schools computer science club, 99% of people are nerds. Their knowledge about computers is if i click here WINDOWS will do this. The make up their own RPG games, and trading cards, and sh*t like that. We also have a few pople that are MCSE or Novells' version of same thing, but their knowlegde is not much better than the previous guys. It looks to me like you are a pure nerd! You spend 4 hours a day (you call free time) on irc/tv/music???? If you were a geek you would be spending at least 8 hours a day either coding, or dissasembling you tv, or anything. irc should be in a background, just so you glance ocaisonally on #kernelnewbies, or other PROGRAMMING, not TEEN oriented chat (hopefully you don't hang on teen chanels). I realize that you are only 15, but at the age of 16 i was going to bed only when my eyes can't sta open because of the bad monitor (~2am). Sometimes i wouldn't go to bed till 7am when the sun would remind me it's time to finish the fscking day. (on hollydays, of course :)
Being kewl has nothing to do with what you do in you free time, it has to do with the attitude you give it. I have yet to hear someone say to me `geek` while thinking luser.
Also, You gotta go out more - not to be kewl or anything, but because it's good for your body. Go swimming, skiing, baskedall, anything. weightlifting is especially good for morale, just watch your back :)
Raves are also a necesity to give your mind a break, but you listen to metal. Techno all the WAY!!!!
Hopefully you understood what I'm trying to say. Don't be offended. Try to take some of my advice. I must say i'm a combination of geek and nerd, but i don't see myself being picked on because of that.
p.s.
I'm not some big guy - only 180cm, or 5'10", I don't look menacing, maybe boolies don't come close to me because i'm serb, but i doubt that's the reason. I had same level of respect while i was in serba as well, and i was really short ages 14-16.
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First, I agree with your thoughts on popular vs. unpopular. However, I don't think that independent equates to unpopular. There are many independent bands that enjoy vast popularity. One example is Fugazi. There are plenty of others so take your pick. I think independent music contributes to music in general because it provides a platform on which the artist can enjoy greater freedom to experiment. They are not constrained by making money as most commercial labels force upon bands.
My signal processing lecturer told me that noise is any part of a signal that is unwanted.
:)
Virtually everyone's parents dislike their kid's music because it isn't a signal that their brains will "accept".
Offtopic? I'm too tired to care.
Old computers also force you to code well. I wrote a game on my Mac IIfx once, and went to great lengths to optimize it as much as possible just to get it to run acceptably on the fx. When I finally recompiled it for PowerPC... my god did it run fast. I ended up adding in a framerate setting so it could be played comfortably on everything from a IIfx to a G3.
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1) Girls (Score:5, Interesting)
by Stoke (stoke@excite.com)
At the age when most teens seem to be crazy over the opposite sex and dating, how is your situation with girls? Assuming you don't have a girlfriend, do you feel better off without one taking away your free time, or is it something you wish for?
My situation with girls is great, I can't complain. I don't have a girlfriend, but there are a few who I could see myself going out with. I'm coming up on the end of my first semester of my senior year in high school, though, and I don't really think this is a time to go out with anybody because the relationship will probably suffer greatly when I start college. I've had a girlfriend before, and it was nice, but I don't regret not having one now. Right now it's just more fun to go out and do things with different people and not feel tied down.
2) Just Curious... (Score:5, Interesting)
by Brazilian Geek (akajita@spamyourmama.bigfoot.com)
Are you now or have you ever been a Slashdot troll? If so, please comment on the feeling of being a troll, if not, what is your favorite troll?
I've never been a troll, it'd be neat to get FP though, but I'd post something useful, not FP$!@#. Signal_11 is the only troll that comes to mind, and he didn't really seem like a troll, just somebody that got on rob's bad side.
3) What are your plans for college? (Score:5, Interesting)
by Zachary Kessin (zkessin@script-fu.org)
If you have thought about it what do you want to do after High School? Do you have any ideas about college or further education?
I plan on going to college, for the experiance and the learning and to appease the Great Parental Units (TM). I work for a school district here though, and everybody I've talked to say I could get a job earning ~40k/year as soon as I graduate high school. But I'm rather looking forward to college for a more focused study on what I want to learn (networks) and the experiance :)
4) What are you listening to? (Score:5, Interesting)
by geophile (jao@mediaone.net)
When I was 15, my father said, "how can you listen to this? It's noise! There's no melody, it's just boom boom boom!". He was talking about the Beatles. Today, I am horrified to find myself saying the same thing about all rap/hip-hop/whatever, Britney Spears, N Sync, and just about everything else I hear that's been recorded recently. I don't buy much new music, but lately I've been buying CDs to replace my old LPs (The Who, Genesis, and yes, The Beatles).
At least there's Elvis (C, not P), They Might Be Giants, and Komeda.
Is it just me, or my g-g-g-generation, or does new music really suck? What are you listening to?
I'm listening to all sorts of techno and trance, having just gotten into it a few years ago. I also listen to all sorts of metal and alternative for the instrumentation and sounds. Lyrics are cool when they rhyme, but I'm not a big fan of rap. I DJ my high school dances occasionally and they're big hip-hop fans, so I find myself sampling some of that to hear what's danceable.. I like most stuff, from celtic and folk to country to death metal. I find most of today's pop doesn't have the heart or message in it that older, more sophisticated stuff did.
5) How is it? (Score:5, Interesting)
by dbarclay10 (dbarclay10_NOSPAM_@_MAPSON_yahoo.ca)
Hey, what's up? :) I'm not a teenager, but I am a Linux user, and a rather dedicated one. I've come to the realization over the past year or so that, indeed, MS Office is actually a good software packager. Well, relatively speaking, of course ;) I find it fast, relatively lean, feature-complete, and more-or-less stable. I was wondering if you yourself have a particular software favorite that doesn't run under Linux?
I use windows 2000 *grin* on my home machine and openbsd on my servers at work, and the only thing really keeping me from linux is my Eudora Pro email :P I don't know of an email package for linux that does what it does..
6) If you were stranded on a desert island (Score:5, Funny)
by dattaway (dattaway@attaway.org)
A pre-customized bare-minimum slackware cd with only the apps i need and the rest of the cd for some select oakenfold mixes in mp3 :)
7) Childhood toys? (Score:5, Insightful)
by Ralph Wiggam (ralph@springfield.com)
Pretty much every geek I've asked remembers loving construction type toys as children. I know my fave was Capsella because of the motors and gears, but there was always a big box of Legos in my house, too.
Did you play with toys like that in your 5-12 years?
What were your favorites?
I especially like Constructs which aren't made anymore, and I went through the LEGO kick, but now I'm into K'NEX! I've got like, 4 of the big sets (haven't gotten around to building them yet) but they're really cool. I've still got my constructs, but I dunno, I don't build much anymore. If I did, it would be those K'NEX sets.
8) Times Change (Score:5, Interesting)
by HRbnjR (chris@hubick.com)
When I was a geek in high school (10 years ago)... it was not cool at all. The computer club was definitely frowned upon by the "cool" people. My question is, with the rise of the internet, and computers becoming pervasive in "normal" peoples lives...has this changed? Or have geeks gained some respect?
I read an article somewhere (Wired?) that said geeks were the new sex symbols...doctors and lawyers used to represent power and success and where what men stereotypically wanted to be, and what women stereotypially chased after. But now, as it is suggested, do you think geeks have invaded some of this position? Do you see any attitudes like this in school?
Of the "cool" people (they're only cool if you let them think that) that I come into contact with, they don't look down on me because I'm a geek, they think it's rather neat that I can fix their AOL when it gets wacked out, and a lot of the girls have started to realize that this is where the money is when I'm older :) I do see geeks becoming sex symbols, but only if they work at it, not that the world is going off its rocker turning to extermely nerdy outcast people, but knoweledgeable citizens are gaining respect for what they know.
9.)Now answer honestly! (Score:4, Interesting)
by OlympicSponsor
In 8th/9th/10th grade I was unpopular (hung out with the losers, didn't go to dances, etc). 11th and 12th grades I was merely neutral (went to some dances, knew a lot of people, but I wasn't a jock or anything). I bring this up not out of relevance, but to show that "I've been there."
My question is: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? What I mean by that is: Many geek teenagers exhibit anti-social characteristics, including: poor hygiene, little or no conversation skills and attitudes (for instance know-it-all-ism) that are off-putting. Do adolescents get into computers because they don't get along and don't understand why, so turn to computers (books, D&D, whatever) as something they can understand/master? Or do adolescents who get into computers/whatever use up so much brain capacity with intellectually challenging tasks they can't learn how to interact with others? Or some third thing?
I lived in rural farm community until the middle of 3rd grade when I moved to where I am now. Back then, I was very active outside with my friends and did all sorts of fun things, but since I moved here, I didn't know anybody around and there weren't very many kids nearby, so I mostly stayed inside and read or build K'NEX (yay!). That's when I got into computers more. I didn't really have anything else to do and somebody gave us a Commodore 64, so I was all over that, and then we got my grandpa's old Mac, and eventually moved over to an Acer running windows 3.1 and up. I think my getting into computers was more an environment thing, and had we not moved, I'd probably be a jock or something now.
10.)Why a new Linux distribution? (Score:4, Insightful)
by Alan Shutko (ats@acm.org)
(doesn't apply)
-rodent
I fall into this catagory somewhat - only for me it's country music. (Yea, go ahead and gag.) But I knew everyone, or everyone knew me. I was never a part of any clicq, but never told to get lost either. It's always been kinda odd (to me) to be a geek, but never a real outcast.
For those who might be curious as to how long ago this was, I'm going to my 10 year HS reunion this summer.
WHONEEDSSLEEPWHENWEHAVECAFFINE?!
Well, here is my schedule on the weekend:
noon - wake up
1pm - eat food
1am - go to sleep
Well, and the fact that I have the hours of 4-6:30pm free as well...
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HAL 7000, fewer features than the HAL 9000, but just as homicidal!
When many of you were dicking around with a guitar, learning to play chords 'Ironman' and 'Smoke on the Water' (c'mon, you know you did it) I was writing up rhymes in my rhyme book, working on a mic I managed to find, borrowing singles from friends because they had instrumental tracks. Of course, I soon realized I have no buisness being on the mic, and I killed that idea.
I've been listening to hip-hop, r&b, soul, blues, whatever, about as long as I've been computing, something around 12 years. So yeah, I guess there's someone out there like you Mike.
Hip-hop culture is as much a reality as geek culture. I've been involved in both, although the former is much more creative. And doesn't pay as well =). But it's hip-hop (actually, graffiti) that got me into what I feed myself and my close ones with, and that's web design and web development.
Anyway, as I sit here, writing this, I'm humming along to the new Outkast single 'Ms. Jackson'. Incredible track, just incredible.
jedrek
-- polish ccs mirror
Based on Clinton's musical preferences, I think he would really like Mr. Bungle's first album (which is also called Mr.Bungle). Extremely tight composition (by John Zorn) and you just can't loose with songs like "Girls of Porn" and "My Ass Is On Fire". Cannibal Corpse, on the other hand...
Maybe that's cuz there's no pr0n on the net anymore. Just pr0n used to advertise pr0n that doesn't exist.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
answers three or four posts, maybe tries to submit an article or two, and then gives up when they realize that /. is just another 3r33t "social club."
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Hmmm - I think maybe *both* of you just spend a good deal of time with someone in the rail site. But for the record, mine does it too ;)
most people, not even salutatorians, do not get that high of an SAT score. those who do not ace the SATs, must perform well in school, doing busy work, if they do want to get into college. I would like to propose, that high school means nothing to you, but it does mean something to others.
$var = <STDIN>
$var =~ s/\\$//;
$var = <STDIN>
$var =~ s/\\$//;
this is slashchomp
You should definitly go to college. It may be hard to stay in college but try to stick to it. Employers nowadays want you to have at least a college degree in CS, to do anything computer related, I know because in my search for jobs I was denied because I'm still in school and I don't have a CS degree. Plus there are tons of scholorships avialble to people in the CS dept.
Don't despair much about your comp, I didn't even get to see much less touch one till about 6 years ago, and that was when I was 14. Now I'm 20 and I own 6 of them, my hard work has paid off in the long run. Oh and next time anyone laughs at you, just smile because you're gonna be their boss one day =)
You know I was wondering the same exact thing. Hrmm, maybe there is some time shifting that occurs and then he is sucked into a portal into another dimention where there are infinitly beautiful women to pleasu....... oh wait nm that's my fantasy ^___^
I think you may need a calculator...he may need 9 days at 4 hours per day...but I didn't use a calculator either...
I was fortunate enough to have my doctor prescribe it for me. There are cases where it is approprate. Where some people either learned less or just speculate that they would have learned less, I learned more. I stopped screwing around in class and actually started paying attention and learning.
Many years later, I tried not taking it. I wasn't quite ready; I had to wait another 6 months. After that, I was fine. I went from a troublemaker to a geek in the span of about a year. :-)
Apparently, of the rich, by the rich, for the rich.
Whether he out for sales or not, if a lot of people buy his music then it is pop music. pop music = contraction of "POPular music." I think what you really mean is that he doesn't set out to be pop in the same way that BSB do. He just does his thing and if people like it great, but he is not going to pander to them.
I agree with your opinion on computer education to a degree, but I think it's important to understand where to draw a line. You said you believe that the secondary education system children are taught to use a computer, not understand it. I don't see a problem in that neccessarily. For 98% of the jobs that that child may hold in his/her future, it will only be important to know how to use the computer, an indepth understanding shouldn't be necessary. It's the same way with cars. When you go in for a driver's license exam, they don't expect you to be able to diagram how your automatic transmission works, they just want you to be able to put it in drive to go forwards, and reverse to go back. The average person has better things to do then understand how their car works as a machine, the mechanical workings are best left to a mechanic.
Now computers are a slightly different deal due to their relative lack of development. The personal computer is a relatively new thing compared to automobiles, and they still require much more constant maintanance than your average car. But hopefully that will change.
I understand computers because I took an interest in how they work. I learned how to cope with their problems because it was a challenge that I sometimes enjoyed, and was always willing to deal with in order to have a working machine. Not everyone shares this enthusiasm for all things electronic. My mom for example gets rather upset when I try to explain to her how the computer works. She just wants to know what to click on. She's a real estate appraiser who likes to communicate with friends via email. Where her work software keeps its config files doesn't matter to her, she doesn't want to know which mail server she's sending out all those chain letter emails through.
While frustrating for those of us that get stuck taking care of the comptuer problems of people like her, it's just the way things are. The best option in my opinion is to improve computers and software to the point where someone just pointing and clicking can't hurt anything, things won't go wrong, and until then, try to get stuck doing tech support for someone besides your mom, so you can charge them money.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Now you see why I do poorly in my math courses... I know the material and so more than 50% of the points that I lose are a result of simple math mistakes. (really)
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
[Philosophy Mode]
Money is not the key to life...
[/Philosophy Mode]
It is nice... But it's more important to be happy...
Sticks and Stones may break my bones, but copyright will always protect me.
Graduating from high school a few years ago, and soon to be graduating college, I can definitely attest that being a "geek" has moved up a few notches.
I have to agree. Like many here, I was pretty much an outcast geek in high school.. I'm 24 now, BTW.. Last summer I started working the door at a local night club here and started seeing a lot of the people I graduated with almost 7 years ago. I always say it's amazing how much we (geeks and nerds) were picked on in high school, but how we're now worshipped as WE'RE the ones driving the BMW's and making large amounts of money.. Funny how times change..
Shayne
Today I didn't even have to use my AK; I got to say it was a good day -- Icecube
Of course, when I was in puberty, ritalin made me damned near psychotic -- angry all the time and prone to violent outbursts that left me wondering what was going on, even as they were occuring.
Eh? I thought this was everyone's adolescence.. :) It was certanly mine and I was never on ritalin.
Shayne
Today I didn't even have to use my AK; I got to say it was a good day -- Icecube
In my High-school experience, (I'm now a Junior CSE major in college), our CS classes were really not focused as well as they should. Not to say that the teacher was bad, but he didn't really know WHAT he should be teaching. By calling the class "Computer Science," he should have been teaching, not only how to use a language, but also how to write programs.
We had CS1, CS2, CS3. CS1 == QBASIC, CS2 == Pascal, CS3 == whatever language the student wanted (but students had to teach themselves the language). We used IBM 286 machines, 1 of them had a 10MB HDD, the others had not HDD... Network boot. Our most difficult program in both CS1 and CS2 were such that they took me about 30 minutes to do, including goofing off, and he gave use a good 3 class periods (50 min. periods) to do it.
Our teacher was good that he recognized those of us in the class who could actually program, and he gave us more challenging assignments, etc, but he still didn't stress philosophy of programming, or even style much. I remember talking to him one time, and he told me that he was going to much the CS1 people use gotos to jump around the functions!!
It wasn't until College that I really learned to program, and although I still have more experience than a lot of people in my classes, those that began really writing code in high school, or before, have quite an advantage. I moved to Linux from Windows towards the end of my freshman year, when we first got exposed to unix, and have never looked back. It has helped me enormously.
Overall, I say that they should either re-structure the "CS" classes, at my school, and others whose "CS" classes are similar, or change the name to something more reflective of the class, such as "How to use BASIC", or "Free A"
-- Just my thoughts...
bmoore
A lot of engaging responses to my post. The general theme seemed to be "there's nothing wrong with pop" and "pop people aren't always unhappy".
I agree with both.
My point was that there are people who do things they don't like, just to fit in. Just because everyone else does. Whether it's a certain type of music, wearing skanky clothes, or doing drugs, there are people doing these things not because they want to, but because of peer pressure.
I'd like to note that there are just as many pop kids listening to Nsync and Britney Spears dissatisfied as there are metal kids and punks who are afraid of what their friends might think about them liking country or classical or even pop.
The point, however cliche, is do what you want. Listen to the music you like, wear the clothes you think look good and are comfortable. People will like you for who you are. And anyone who doesn't...well, you don't want to be friends with them anyway! A friendship based on acting fake is a fake friendship.
Best to do what makes you happy, whether that's dying your hair and listening to punk, sitting at home playing Counter-Strike, or listening to Britney Spears.
</cheese>
When I was your age, I didn't even have my 300bps Commodore modem yet.
my humble 166Mhz linux box (which I got a new 20GB drive for tuesday..finally, free space).
Disk space is good. Long live disk space!
Yeah well I diagnosed ADD on myself when I was 23 years old and beleive me, if I had been diagnosed with it at an early age, my entire life would have been different. Now I have to build up a new personnality at 24 years old that is not based on lack of self esteem and all the problems that stem from being different from everybody else when you're young. You have to be carefull how you judge people who's kids are on Ritalin because even though they may not actually have ADD, the fact remains that it's very hard to diagnose so, yes, mistakes are made but the press never mentions the good new when the drug actually fixes someone's life.
Yeah, Yeah...
Big shocker. In my oinion it was never about the movement... but more about the incredible writings that were finally being recognized.
Where the hell did you find that anyway?... and why did you post it here?
"Being alive is a crock of shit." --Kilgore Trout
I tend to agree, though I think that rap is more mainstream than techno these days. At least where I live, I hear a lot more rap than electronica. Almost all my friends like rap, but few like any kind of techno.
As far as playability, the scales certainly turn in the dance scene. Granted, most of what I hear at dances is "popular" techno, like Prodigy, Crystal Method, Fatboy Slim; granted, those are the bands that paved the way for all the wannabe techno around these days, but that doesn't make them bad.
We can both blame and praise the internet for this. There's tons of crap techno bands on mp3.com, but there's a few great ones too, like 303infinity and DJ Xealot. In the end though, the net is good for all music, I think; the more artists, the better.
I find this thread very interesting but I can't understand your comment. I think the thick sarcasm isn't helping at all.
eh. I'm all for moving forward, but life is about enjoying yourself. You can bust your ass your whole life, but in the end the only thing that will be worthwhile is whether you were able to figure out the stuff that makes you happy.
And if you're happy when you're strung out, then go ahead, but not all of us are.
-Erik
For the most part, most of the curriculum in high school only taught me how to *use* something; that's the best you can expect from a curriculum. It was my imagination and my own desire to continue tinkering with what I learned that finally taught me an understanding of anything.
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Discussion/Example/Implicit-Proof
This is (unfortunately) not limited to computers. I'll give you two opposing examples:
I prefer math and science: I went on to code a very basic graphics engine, just for fun, using only basic matrix operations and Gausian eliminasion. I was taught how to use matrixes and row reduction but my imagination forced me to learn how to apply them and therefore understand them.
Conversly, a good friend of mine can whip off a 3000 word essay about any piece of literature they've just read. In high school, they got A's. I hate writing essays. Nevertheless, I can write one but I have to follow a formula that I was taught: Introduction > Hypothesis > Discussion/Example/Implicit-Proof > Restate Hypothesis > Conslusion. This is what I was taught and it's what I can do. Each of my essays is indistinguishable from the last. I've never been able to understand what it is about literature, it's form, construction, etc that eludes me because I lack the imagination. My friend however is doing quite well in her masters program; I'm writing this post.
Restate Hypothesis
IMHO, it's not the curriculum that can be blamed for any perceived problems with our high schools. Computers are just about the only addition to it in the last 20 years. Math is math and high school science is pretty much the same. As for english, 1984 was the most modern book I read in high school. :)
Conslusion
If school is worse today than it was yesterday, I say it's because of strained resources or poor learning environments that strangle whatever imagination kids might have today. But, I'll leave that for another essay.
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And another thing. Does everybody here think that because they read Slashdot that they are "different?"
No. I read Slashdot and I am different. No causal relationship.
Unless
I see you're from the UK from your URL, as am I. I never say "legos" with an s, and I'd feel safe to say most people in the UK wouldn't either, but I've noticed a lot of people on /. do, so I'd
guess you're objecting to US usage. Vive la difference!
You guys've gotta get out of the US.
Hi! Just wanted to tell you, that your answers are great and I enjoyed the interview throughout.
Though I'd still like to know how your 1st LUG meeting was...
I guess there must be many other geeks out there who are also into progressive rock...?
Among other rockers I noticed that the proggers are usually seen as the "geeks of rock" because we're so "detailistic" (does this word exist in English?), always going for complex, technical music.
Ends up hapenning that being a computer geek I feel the same when "normal" people refer to prog rockers as to when they refer to computer geeks...
Any other proggers out there to share a view?
--
"I'm looking through you, where did you go?"
Everybody I know who has ever attended a computer class has had the same experience. And it's been the same for me when I've had to attend compulsory classes in some application-or-other at work.
I suspect it's driven partly by the economics of the situation: "show 'em step one, step two, step three, then shove 'em out the door in time for the next class" is a hell of a lot cheaper than genuine education.
I've been driven to apoplexy by work situations like being called on to help somebody update a web page on the corporate Intranet, and finding that the sum total of the guidance they've received from a consultant making thousands of dollars a day is a hand-written sheet of step-by-step instructions. The person has no clue what they are doing or why. They don't know what the effect of the following the instructions is. They just know that every morning, they have to go through step one, step two, step three...
This is in no way analagous to driving a car without knowing how to assemble the engine, as some people have suggested. I've worked with people whose desks have been wallpapered with post-it notes detailing every click and keypress from username and password onwards, but I have yet to see any notes stuck on a dashboard like:
GOING TO WORK - Put key in ignition (keyhole behind big round thing that turns around) - Turn key CLOCKWISE - Press button on lever thing, then press lever down...Anybody who knows how to drive has some conceptual understanding of how cars work, even if that conceptual understanding has no resemblance to how the enginge actually works. Similarly, when we think of the contents of a hard drive as files and folders, we may know that's not actually the case, but that's the level of abstraction at which we can use them. And you'd be surprised by how many people who use computers every day have no conception of "hard drive" or even "files", they just know what they were working on yesterday is somehow "in" Excel, and they have to follow the instructions sticky-taped to their monitor to get it "out".
That's why I've started giving tutorials to friends and friends-of-friends to try and supplement the abysmal instruction they've had in the past. (Also to earn a bit of beer money. If I turn out to be any good at it I'll get some other people involved and set up as a co-op.) As easy as it is to criticise, it's harder to address the problem constructively.
I was upgrading a friend's PC yesterday, and while I was there she got me to sit down with her 12 year old son and take him through a few things. Nightmare! The blank looks I got took me right back to the blank looks I gave to my guitar teacher when I was twelve years old!
The thing to remember with children is that they are configured for play and exploration, not passive instruction, or even the sort of dialogue you hope to establish with an adult student where they will be able to tell you the direction they want to go. Worse, if the child has had some exposure to school, they've learnt that the safest strategy is to keep their mouth shut at all times.
Difficult situation. If anybody has any advice, I'll gladly listen.
I think the point that most people miss in the posts below is you should listen to music *cause you enjoy the music*. It's THAT simple. It has nothing to do with how popular it is. What exactly is the point of listening to something unknown if you don't enjoy it? I personally listen to some popular music and some unpopular. Its cause I enjoy listening to it, nothing more, nothing less. Sorry for being redundant, but I do feel strong about it.
I am proud to say i am luckier than most high school students. The school i go to is a Science Acadamy, the main thing i have noticed that makes it different from most schools is there is no popular group, and best of all the computer nerds are respected and running Linux is actually seen as a sign of inteligence by many.
The school was placed in a poor neighborhood so half of the students are in the Science Acadamy and half are regular students form the neighborhood, the best result of this is there is no group of rich kids pushing people around (unlike the High School i was suposed to goto)
One of the main reasons people like me are respected so much is because of how our network and computers are run, it is done almost entirely by students, we are in charge of it and the teachers and students know this.
I am now a junior and i have not had one person make fun of me for being a nerd or anything similar, and i have had no reason to be ashamed of anything, i carry a laptop to school and have recently started a ham radio club, things which at most schools would result in me automaticaly being labeled an outcast, but it has been just as acepted as if i had joined the football team.
And before anyone asks, I do have a girlfriend, And so do many of the "nerds" and "geeks" that i know.
Jess
But sometimes the way geeks are treated by society leads to further anti-social behaviour, i have personally experianced people being assholes simply because they want someone to pick on, it is the fact that you are different in some way that makes them feel they have the right to pick on you, it doesnt mater if you are shy or anti-social, lucky i havent had to deal with people like that for quite a while.
If you like metal for the sound but not the lyrics, find something by Breadwinner... sick math-metal w/ no vocals. They will change you...
And another thing. Does everybody here think that because they read Slashdot that they are "different?"
I definitely think I'm different -- I have a girlfriend, a social life, I actually have a strong set of political beliefs, and I enjoyed high school and college (both socially and academically). Sure, I love computers and video games and even some SF, but I feel like I'm somehow demonized as having been some kind of "normal person" all my life. At least, when I read Slashdot.
"First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
Actually, the huge success of "The Sims" is proof that they do, since the purpose of that game is to be popular. Sims aren't happy when they're by themselves. Incidentally, check out this "family" for a good laugh. I expect the online game will be even more successful, in which the object is to be the most loved person in simland.
Some of us don't even have a social compass.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
What I got from his statement was that it was pathetic that someone was trying to learn to code before they actually had the skills to USE the computer. It really is pretty pathetic when someone's trying to code but they get confused by the menus in the IDE. Imagine how lost these people would be in a traditional Unix build environment where they were required to actually type commands and manually edit makefiles!
Or maybe they're just overreaching their goals. Perhaps they should learn how to use the computer before they try to code. Even if they manage to somehow become a programmer while still being confused by the big colorful icons of AOL, they're not going to produce programs worth a shit because they won't have the breadth or depth of knowledge to know what UI is good and what isn't, what kind of input and output is useful, and so on.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
Basically, I'd like to try out out for a while, see if it's the right thing. If it's not, then I'd need a no-hassle return policy. Money back isn't an issue. Unless it's really expensive, like buying a car or a house or something.
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
Not necessarily.
You could use non-GNU tools with your Linux kernel, or even write your own shell/tools.
--
Soma: because a gramme is better than a damn.
"how bout a geek chick? (like me :)"
"trust me.. there isnt anything more attractive than a geek hacking in his boxers at 3am with a bottle of ice101 by his side ;)"
Could you please provide us male geeks with a clue as to where to find more chicks like you??? ;)
I'd kill to meet a girl like this, but none have come up on the radar yet...
Sorta.... I don't admit this often, but High School was a friggin nightmare for me. I kinda confusedly oscilated from hypergeek to potsmokin dumbass. Being kicked out was the best thing that ever happened to me. After that, I still oscilated tho. I was on one hand still the hypergeek , being divorced from at 20 (stupid to get married young anyway) for 8+hrs a day of IRC and hacking in early 90's. I also was in a punk band and stupidly drug-self-destructive.
Then I went to uni. Lifechange. I actually found a group of ppl like me , but kinda balanced. I quit the pot and discovered the joys of being the only comp literate art student in town.
I'd be a fool to claim that uni shaped the more mature version of me that I am now, but I'd be a writeoff if I didn't do it. But I'd also be a lesser person if I didn't do the hard lessons before hand.
From the minute you are born your learning real life. Uni gives you tools to analyse that real life, but you still gotta actually experience it to have something to analyse.
Just thinkin out loud I guess.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
"Click there... that's it, select that..."
The teacher was telling the kid what to click on - and he was just blindly doing it, and not learning how to *use* a computer. In my opinion, that's the wrong way to go about it.
Boy, isn't that the truth! I am having a terrible time at my job right now--I'm fixing to move to a new job at another company, and I have to leave behind information on how they can perform all of the administration functions on our Linux mail and web servers that I do.
They want step-by-step instructions, which I can provide, but there are problems with that sometimes, for several reasons:
- What if something goes wrong? Steps of instructions only show you what to do provided things work *correctly* the first time.
- Along with that, such instructions do not teach you how to interact with the system. It's only monkey-see, monkey-do--not intelligent functioning.
- Sometimes, when I figure something out (this is usually in the case of fixing something that might be down, a server, service, or whatever), I don't *follow* a specified checklist: "Check this, check that, if you get this, then THIS is your problem." That goes back to the interaction: I interact, and make intelligent decisions based on what I see. Also, sometimes I just have to try things until something works, but unless I care to try and reproduce the problem, I don't know exactly *what* caused it to work. Was it the last thing I did, or a combination of that and other things?
- They want deafeningly simple instructions, which creates a lot of redundancy if I explain how to edit a file every time a file needs to be edited.
I can only show them so much, but beyond that, they are going to have to learn enough about the system. Leaving instructions that tells HOW to do such things as edit a file is outlandish; I should just be able to say "edit this file inI learned this stuff by sitting down, wanting to do something, and figuring out how to do it. That gives *me* a difficult base to teach from, because I only know what I know out of need to do it. Realizing that some people learn differently (ie, not by experimenting like I did), I wonder just how I can leave enough behind to get they where they need to be. It comes down to the fact that they're going to have to find another qualified person--I can only do so much.
THAT's where a good teacher comes in--he can teach people to do this stuff. My CS teacher in high school was very good at this, though there has to be a combination of an inquisitive, explorative nature involved on the part of the student as well.
Now that that's nicely off-topic and over with, I'll go now. :)
"I say consider this day seized!" -Hobbes
"Tomorrow we'll seize the day and throttle it!" -Calvin
other than the cool government issued laptop.. i dont see what the big deal abou this kid is.
:)
..and geeks and girls.. *shakes head* trust me.. there isnt anything more attractive than a geek hacking in his boxers at 3am with a bottle of ice101 by his side ;)
ircing for 4 hours? didnt _everyone_ do that if they were connected? (back in the day of 14.4). i always considered ircing ang gaming pretty normal activites that even the *cool* people participated in.
its the geeks who were ircing at three am.. the geeks who were coding instead of gaming.. the geeks who were tearing hardware apart instead of checking email every fifteen minutes..
i think you need to get a better test subject.. how bout a geek chick? (like me
antisociality and fun with computers arnt the only things that define a geek. you cant say a geek doesnt have friends or social skills or anything like that.. those are just qualities that are defined in a different society.. computers! there is irc etiquette and internet and fellow computer geeks count as friends!
the perfect world is a world without lag. a world without lag is a world without people
Nowadays "normal" kids use AOL Instant Messenger...
And personally I dont really care if I'm different or not. I don't think it really matters all that much.
I've always considered myself normal, though I did spent countless hours in front of the computer coding/BBSing during my childhood. (started with a stupid language called PILOT on my Atari)
"geek" is far too general of a term to mean anything really. Some might call me a "geek" b/c of my obsession with computers. Others might not consider me worthy to be a "geek" b/c I actually went outside and played sports with my friends.
You don't need to be the same as everyone else in a group.
You don't need to be stereotypical, or 'average'.
Slashdot is not a family, or a close-knit group. Check the number of people using it - in the hundred-thousands. You can hardly stand out in such a big group.
My advice for you, would be to work at the friendship with those two people at your school, play with your computer and see what you can get out of it. Indulge your interests, above all.
Let me also tell you where I'm coming from:
I'm a high school junior. I have never used Linux. I read slashdot regularly, but I'm not looking at it to identify myself. I have some skill in programming, but I only picked it up through a class in 9th grade. I like computers, but also hanging with friends. I've made online-friendships through an RPG online.
As far as popular people, I dislike the way they treat each other, but personally, I tolerate them. I play the clarinet, listen to Beach Boys and israeli music, and helped a friend land a job in web design.
That's where I come from.
As you can see, I'm not average. I don't identify with any particular group.
"To thine own self be true" - Shakespeare put it well.
Hang in there.
Starskita
Starskita
!
When I was in high school we had these weekly English writing labs. However, every so often we would graduate from that hell into the amusing world of the "Computer Writing Lab". The class would trudge down to the lab, with its 30 or so horribly outdated machines that possessed just enough oomph to run a word processing program... of course, this was where the fun began. As our teacher would take half an hour to figure out how to either turn on the computer or insert a disk, the students would all conspire to find ways to crash the things. And then we would raise our hands with a desperate "it won't work," and watch our tech challenged teacher try to fix it. (It was high school, we needed such distractions)
:)
Nice to see that some real live computer teachers in high schools don't come close to knowing what they're doing either.
the bit about the CS teacher thinking everything was DOS in the end. At my last job I tried to introduce Linux to some people and ran into the same response from a few paper MSCEs that they had running around there. It was really pretty funny that they just could not wrap their heads around the concept of something in computing *not* being m$ based. All in all a great article makes me hopefull for my son who will never remember a time when he did not have always on access to the net. The future seems bright right now. Of course I have to start work in 5 minutes and I'll be in full BOFH mode in about 10.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Two things to note:
Time values do not hold during midterms/finals (I thought about having myself castrated so I could study, but thankfully reconsidered).
Finding a girlfriend who also goes to school may change these values, as she'll have a lot less free time than my girlfriend does.
Either way...ditch IRC, find a girlfriend, they're all over the place, just open your eyes.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
I tend to be pretty geeky, and I listen to entirely hip hop and electronic music. I don't think you're alone as it seems, I just think most geeks that listen to hip-hop are probably ashamed of it :)
I don't know that I'd agree with you about hip-hop outshining the electronica music. Both formats seem to suffer the same problem..alongside with rock. There's a few bright talents and then you have a million half-assed imitations. anyways, there's quite a bit of electronica that sounds the same, especially when you get into more popular trance and such. for some interesting electronica check out aphex twin, squarepusher, or mu-ziq (mu as in the greek letter). I guarantee you won't find it at all repetitive, although I admit you'd probably find mu-ziq the most accessible of the three.
Oh, don't worry, there's probably a .deb for that, too. ;)
You know you're ignoring the fact that there is either missing time between 3 and 4:40 (depending on what homework done means) or 4:40 and 6:00... and if food includes eating at a computer (which I've been known to do) there is missing time between 6:00 and 6:30... I wouldn't scrutanize....
Comment removed based on user account deletion
One of the reasons this gets to me is because my home state Arizona actually has one of the lowest literacy rates in the USA, most likely because we get so many Mexican high school students, being right by the border. Instead of elevating the standards for the Mexicans, the standards for everyone else here are lowered, which is the reason we fail all the national standards tests. The AIMS test for one, over 50% of students failed the math section, & I believe 75% failed the reading/writing. It's not impossible to pass these tests, some people just need to work harder at it. This would be easily accomplished if they could just realize how important college is, like Clinton does. We already average as one of the stupidest nations in the world. [Sorry, I can't think of a nice way to put that]
--
I don't listen to heavy metal, (I listen to techno/rave). I -do- come home to music/irc/tv, but usually not until around 12am. The rest of the time, I'm either in school, or doing drugs.
DJ kRYPT's Free MP3s!
So how do we know that this is truely a *typical* slashdot user?
What are the Slashdot Demographics?
Who conducted the surveys?
Was anyone here contacted by Price Waterhouse?
Or was it something like doing a survey of all of the lifeforms on Planet Earth to find the most typical lifeform, so that this could be used as a representative to the Intergalactic Council?
Hmmmmmmm . . .considering most politicians, this might be a step up.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
played on various sports teams, made the honour role year after year and also developed an interest in business and computers
/. reader - you appear to be shallow, self centered and overly concerned with money.
the computer industry
to make it big
Frankly - you sound like an asshole. I hope your not the average
Quick: Whats more important? A)Appearing Fashinonable B) Having a green lawn C) Understanding the universe around you
i agree and i disagree. (typical, huh)
:)
:::poof::: we're out of jobs. :)
thing is, most kids are never going to have any use for knowing HOW a computer works. thye just need to know it does, and what the process for getting from point a to point b is.
this is much like a car- you really give a damn how the gearing system interacts? you just know not to drop it into reverse at 70mph. (i hope
most people have no need to know this stuff, let alone have it taught in elementry school. i think that advanced classes in computing should be offered at the high school level, much like a vocational program, so that a kid going into highschool can go thru a program which teaches him/her about programming, different operating systems, networking and routing, and general engineering as well.
the biggest things missing from the cs courses in any school, imnsho, are ETHICS and PHILOSOPHY. very very very important, probably the one thing that a person with a BS degree has over someone that is certified.
besides, teach everyone HOW a computer works and make them all '31337 haxors' like you and
--endcycle--
the job security thing was just a joke, by the way. didn't mean to imply keeping people dumb was for the best. i DO think that people should shop smart in ANY purchase. what do you do when you go (to keep the auto analogy alive) to buy a car? you read up on it, research what it is, etc. and if you don't know for sure, you grab someone you trust who knows this stuff. most importantly, you buy from somewhere reputable. in south africa it may be different, but here in the states when a company pulls that sort of crap they are pulled into court for fraud very quickly. they lose credibility in the geek community, which means their corporate sales die off, and then they lose their businesses altogether. as to the ripping people off for services, this happens everywhere. my wife deisgns web sites, and comes across other designers who totally scam their customers. same deal with programmers, database people, consultants, etc... this is part of the reason i say that ethics classes are so important. i DO wish users in general were more educated about computers, cause it would make my life easier as a win2k admin, but hey. that's why they pay me the (not-so-big) bucks. i gotta deal with people.
--endcycle--
I graduated from HS in '86, and was the only person in my class with any interest in computers. I spent 5 hours a day on Apple //e's and the fact that our lab had one only Mac (256k, 2 3.5" drives, that's it) worked out because there was only one person who would sit down at it. My musical tastes were evolving out of metal and into synthpop. Girls were not something that I lacked time for, girls were something that lacked interest in me so I lacked time to be concerned about that disregard. Reading your tale reminded me of my own growing up, though you've gone farther with Linux than I ever got with that VIC=20 I was programming at home. :)
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
Mdevelop is more of a system built around existing apps. Imagine Glimmer + DDD + glade + a lisp interpreter all integrated. IMHO, linux lacks a really good IDE that can do everything you need..edit the code, debug it, and create an interface.
KDevelop has been this and more for a while now. It has the integrated debugger and interface creator (also tightly integrated with Qt Designer). It has all the standard stuff like code highlighting and formating aids. It doesn't, on the other hand, have a built in LISP interpretor, but I don't many people that use one anyway. Besides, anyone that wants to add one is free to do so.
I've even heard that KDevelop will make coffee for you, but I can't confirm that:)
Here's the URL: http://www.kdevelop.org
i guess that makes me the typical /. user...
i could live a little longer in this prison
In my experience college is the real setting in which social, intellectual, and "real-life" learning can occur. The experiences we get in high-school somewhat prepare us for this, especially volunteer sports, clubs, etc.; however not until college are we really challenged on a personal level. Intelligence is a great help, but being able to adapt to being on your own in a sea of unknowns is what really defines a lot of people.
You can only be young once, but you can be immature forever.
I think what makes a person a Geek is, perhaps, above average intelligence, and more importantly, genuine curiousity about the world that surrounds them. I'd also add to that an internal need to discover how things function and how to make those functions function better or differently. Looking back on my definition, that sounds a great deal like the definition of a scientist. Luckily for us Geeks, scientists are "valued" by society.
Pimps are Geeks too. The Linux Pimp
--It's Pimptastic!--
I am not that 'hardcore' any longer, and am no longer up on all the newest bands. I primarily listen to oldskool (late60's-70's) rock and roll anymore, but I love and listen to EVERYTHING, with exception to the hardcore death metal stuff of which we speak, and country. (No, I don't do bubblegum pop junk either.)
I have well over 300 cd's spanning a large spectrum -
Ice Cube, TuPac, NWA ect.
Andrea Bocelli, Charlotte Church
Tom Waits, Nick Drake, Ani DiFranco
VanMorrison, Clapton, Cocker (Joe), Stevens (Cat)
Floyd, Doors, Airplane(Jefferson), Zeppelin
Miles Davis, Coltrane
BB King, Etta James, Robert Johnson
Hell...I even have the Rocky Horror Picture Show!
So, although I don't primarily listen to rap and r&b anyMORE..I still love it and listen to it fairly regularly.
As a side note: If you have not yet heard of or checked out Spice1 - you should do it. He kicks much ass.
I'm for hire.
I'm too sexy for you.
Oh, I know.. Back in High School (public), I took the only computer course we had, "Keyboarding". I got just short of a perfect score in that class.. There was only one thing that kept me from getting it.. One question on a 10 question test (one of 2, I think) screwed me up. "What do you use to write on a floppy disk?" I answered, "floppy disk drive" The answer was supposed to be "felt tip pen". Man, those teachers stunk. They did have those fun IR keyboards in the class though.. I don't suppose the classes have gotten better, have they?
The "ordinary Slashdot user" refers to the 127 clones of Signal_11 that were made when he hit the karma cap.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Quite the contrary -- I read /. because, for the most part, it's a great place to find other hard-core geeks. I work in the IT dept. at a medium sized company, and out of the 90 or so of us here, I can only think of 4 people besides myself that I would label "hard-core" -- the rest are moderately skilled and in it for the money.
We may not be treated as equals yet but I think the world realizes now that we can make their lives miserable. And isn't that what it's all about?
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Generally I lie down in bed for a few minutes before I sleep.
And sometimes I brush my teeth.
I am not saying money is the key to life. I agree that one must be happy to have a good life, but i know many companies look for that piece of paper (aka diploma).
I really want to go to college one day. And, I really want a job.
This is great. Go to school. Learn more. Then you can get a better job and make more money.
This whole piece has absolutely nothing to do with "who is Clinton..." or "who is the average /. user." Although, I think it's just as interesting to hear about Clinton as it is Brittany Spears (but probably not as interesting to look at.).
/. provides?"
It's brings on a deeper examination of "who are the people on slashdot, and what are my commonalities/differences with them?" Sort of a "why am I here, aside from the useful information
I think he was just being sarcastic. right?
They said I had ADD, and they put me on ritalin.
they put you on ritalin because you played Advanced Dunjon & Dragon?
seems like I'm lucky having being raised in Europe...
-- p a n a p i c - panoramas des alpes: Mont-Blanc, Mont-Rose, Cervin, etc...
This guy deserves a 6 for this comment.
But he won't get it will he?
Nope. SlashBLOT reeks of geeks turned mods.
Electrical Engineering is BORING.
But profound insight - not really. Non-popular Music specifically is mostly angst ridden and personally boring.
I agree. But, the people who sing/perform these angst ridden songs are considered to be 'genius' (correct the usage of the word - I can't recall the plural) when the fact remains most of these things are like patches to software to make sure the program works!.
Many 'geeks' say the mainstream (popular-at-school people) imitate pop artists. Well, don't the 'geeks' try hard to imitate death/heavy/whatever metal artists? It is only a matter of choice.
So quit bragging about your ardent devotion to death metal over pop, Clinton, Grow up, mature a little.
Electrical Engineering is BORING.
Who would want to listen to shit like that? "cannibal corpes", what a stupid name for a band. Only a greasy geek would like shit like that. Oh wait...
Ashes of Empires and bodies of kings,
The truth about Michael
Wow moderators, let's give points to this asshole. Sounds like the end of some cheesy made for TV movie.
Ashes of Empires and bodies of kings,
The truth about Michael
Hear Hear! This is an attitude that I find less than well represented at slashdot. Sometimes I think that people feel they gain more respect if they denounce popular culture in favor of independant things (if one were so inclined, they could place using obscure linux distros as their primary OS in this category). As far as I'm concerned, you'll get my respect if you readily admit to actually liking the Backstreet Boys. How many people are secure enough to do that? --- If everyone else was not jumping off the bridge, would you jump just to be different?
... the average slashdotter say?
/. posts?
Why do I get the feeling 9.5 of 10 responses were simply regurgitated
Although I wouldn't really call other people arrogant know-nothings.. =) It's just that I like the mental stimulation that comes from interacting with other geeks. <g>
Hi Clinton, Do you watch Star Trek? If so, in your opinion, who is the best captain from the TV series, not the books. Which is the best ST movie of all time? Where is Linux in ST?
Actually, computers are what got me into Hip-Hop. I'm 21 now, but I was first exposed to Hip-Hop around 1984; I'm from the suburbs but I had a neighbor from Baltimore, another who started Dj'ing. They gave me some tapes of the radio in Baltimore; I still remember the two songs I liked the most off of it -- "Roxxane's Revenge" by Roxxane Shante, and "The Old School" by Kool Kyle and Billy Bill. Anyway, at that time things were definitely more electronic sounding than nowadays; vocoders, TR-808's, and even cutting in its infancy -- I was hooked, since at the same time I was toying around with my c64. When I heard music that was completely made by electronics it blew me away, especially when I went into Jr. High and saw my friend making music with nothing but turntables. You could probably throw a lot of the breakdancing music of that era into the equation too ("Tour De France" or "Trans Europe Express" anyone?) Really the influence of Kraftwerk on modern music is probably second to James Brown. Sadly to say, it's probably getting into Hip-Hop that pulled me away from computers. When it came down to my dad giving me money the two habits couldn't both be attended to. I started spending so much money on equipment (started Dj'ing, and producing for a while) that keeping an up to date computer was out of the question. I kept a BBS running from about 92-95 on a 386 called, appropriately considering the SysOp "Planet Rock." My Sound Blaster Pro was fun for a little while; before I could afford a sampler I could make little loops with sound editors. Although I really haven't payed attention to any music since 1997 (lost interest in everything), I can safely say the following LP's influenced me the most: 1) De La Soul - "3 Feet High and Rising" 2) De La Soul - "De La Soul is Dead" 3) A Tribe Called Quest - "Peoples' Instinctive Travels in the Paths of Rhythm" 4) Gangstarr - "No More Mister Nice Guy" 5) Gangstarr - "Step in the Arena" 6) KMD "Mr Hood" 7) 3rd Bass - "The Cactus Alblum" 8) Jungle Brothers - "Straight Out the Jungle" 9) X Clan - "To the East Blackwards" 10) EPMD - "Strictly Business" 11) Black Moon - "Enta tha Stage" 12) Nas - "Illmatic" 13) Ultramagnetic MC's - "Critical Beatdown" 14) Group Home - "Livin' Proof" I used to do a radio show on a local station. It just got to the point one night where I asked myself "Okay, what do you really want to do?" I felt like I wanted to do something else, and this was kind of holding me back. I sold all my equipment and records and went overseas (yeah, that much.) Until November of 1998 I was still accessing the Internet with a VMS account I had at the local university, and a 14.4 modem with a 386. After having some money to spare (and time too), I finally got some up to date equipment. Really, I feel bad about being so old and not even knowing a programming language (aside from BASIC, and HTML and all that.) Since then I started toying around with Linux, learning how to do networking, stuff like that -- it's been real enjoyable. I'm essentially playing catch up now to be where most of you guys were in High School :)
I'm not bitter about the time I spent with music, it really shaped a lot of the political ideas and thoughts I have nowadays -- probably even my love of Linux if you can believe that. One of the things that bothers me though is how screwed over its been by the media. That "nigger shit" as a lot of white people used to refer to it is now in GAP commercials -- how nice. I'm afraid the fate of Hip-Hop will be much like Disco -- a pretty decent idea and music, worn out by the media and people who didn't understand it, but wanted to be it (Vanilia Ice ten years ago, Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit nowadays.) Now that the music has been repackaged into something friendly and white, it's on MTV 24-7. I guess the commercialism of Hip-Hop is one of the reasons I became tired of it. I used to not understand why older guys in their 30's weren't into the new records we played to them, now I understand -- you just grow old and nothing impresses you anymore.
Enough of my ranting. Just letting you know there are Hip-Hop nerds out there :)
"...You'll be pissed at the cats for wanting food NOW when you've just got someone in the rail sight..."
It's got to be a kitty conspiracy! I laughed only because my cat does EXACTLY the same thing...
It is not flamebate as it is most likely true. He does not have a girlfriend, has been on the net since seven. Which means he has been exposed to porn since seven, because the first thing you do on the net is look for porn as a child. So it is quite likely that after his bed time snack he takes a break and "relaxes".
I'm not sure if I classify as a geek (browse the web a lot, like to learn new ideas and hear new opinions, dislike Microsoft products but use them anyway, play about with Linux although I'm not great at at, but I'm learning) but sure I listen to hip-hop. I hate the fact that when you say that to someone they instantly think of Puff Daddy, Mase and all that big-money crap. I love guys like Company Flow, Indelible MCs, Kool Keith (in his many incarnations), Jurassic 5, Mos Def, Swollen Members... even in Scotland some of us have taste ;)
I like punk, but also some of the clasic stuff, not to offend the mature slashdotters. But that is irelevent. I have a friend who is pretty tech-smart who is big into hip-hop. I can only occasionaly put up with his stuff though. It really depends on ones mood what they listen to. And I also want to say that hard rock is NOT electronica. techno and 80's crap are "electronica". It dosn't matter much what music one likes, atleast concerning their technical skills. Thats why I'm wondering why everone is harping over personality, and not skill.
Anyone notice the moderators have been out en-masse on this? Hard to find a post without somthing.
I think the problem you will find is that the million half-assed imitations in any musical genre are the ones that get all the publicity and such. People say they hate country because they've never heard "real" country, just the crap that's on the radio. People hate heavy metal because all they hear is Manson and Zombie (and the few other corporate metal dorks). People hate folk because they hear garbage by people claiming to be folk that have ten-billion dollar budgets for an album.
Electronica music is not the only victim of over-sensationalized garbage performances. But most people that have a type of music they are already into forget that they had to look past the surface of that genre to find anything worthwhile. And so, they assume that the garbage on the surface of the other genres are an honest representation of the entire genre.
I listen to a lot of different types of music. But hardly anyone I know could recognize the names of more than maybe one or two bands in my musical collection. Popular usually is just crap, in any genre. If I had heard Godsmack and thought that they represented all of Heavy Metal, I would have never taken the interest in it that I did. Dig underground and you find so much more promise, talent and grace. And that works the same in all other music genres.
------------
Yeah, I'll go with that. Certainly my geekdom has become a little more respected... there are still the [insert term of disrespect here]s, but they're becoming a bit more rare - at least in my opinion.
Geekdom is becoming a little 'cooler', I think.
Dude, if that is the biggest frustration you run into...
There is no guarantee that the content has been read or understood.
>I really like bands like cannibal corpse, >The words don't matter to me, its all about the >instruments. Bands like cannibal corpse == the >bringer of evil, but their guitar work is amazing I listened to a bit of Cannibal Corpse when I was a teenager, and if I remember their music correctly, their vocals are much (if not exactly) like listening to Cookie Monster screaming "I CUM BLOOD!!!". So I can appreciate why one would focus on their guitar work. Which was nice. :)
And for punk bands, try the Germs, the Melvins (metal&punk in one), and Black Flag. I don't know if you had heard of those b4, but they are the "old school" punk bands (except the Melvins are still around). I have a million bands to suggest to you, but those are yr best bets if you haven't checked them out. As far as computers go, I don't wanna say anything cuz I am not a programmer yet. I'm teaching myself and its hard when you have no one to ask questions to. Thing is, you REALLY remind me of myself at yr age, (I can't really say I am much older than you, being only 19) except I was into music and art, and my parents thought that the Internet was nothing but porn, so they wouldn't even buy a computer, lest the porn be magically beamed into it. I sent most my time in a band, writing songs, practicing, screaming ( I was the singer/guitarist in a punk band, the Unabombers). But, I think being the unsocial (notice I didn't say "anti-social") type is what enables us to be able to take a step back and observe society as the ignorant sheep farm that it is, yet we are told we are wrong, different, put on Prozac and Ritalin because we are so frustrated that the only thing we can find comfort in is loud, screaming noise music, which makes our parents think we are satan worshippers or our classmates think that we're going to come to school and execute everyone. I slept through high school. I could have taken honors classes and study really hard, but what is the point? So we can "prove" that we are intelligent(in their terms)? So we can be recuited to create another weapon with energy output that rivals the sun? Hell no. I fought back. I rebelled. I SLEPT. Straight though school. And I could have graduated a semester early if it hadn't been for the stupidity of my parents, who decided it would look better to a college if I DIDN'T graduate early (??). No, school didn't matter. You seriously don't learn a damn thing that is really useful in daily life. Even if you go to college, they are going to repeat every thing you learned in high school..........
Sorry. I get carried away. That probably doesn't make sense anyway. Later
C Pungent
Sorry, it was too tempting.
C Pungent
Well, I'm not just into hip-hop but it's one of the many types of music I like. From Tupac, Dre and Eminem to NOFX, The Impossibles and the Bouncing Souls (and everything inbetween). Being into so many types of music, I don't get total exposure to one kind - so I don't know a lot of the groups/people you listed. I still love the stuff tho.
And this is coming from a religous slashdot reader (at least five or six times a day).
Garth
First, I'll say that you shouldn't fret about having an `old' or `slow' computer. As long as you have a Pentium-class CPU and 32MB RAM, everything else is just cake. You can get that for around $100 at the used computer store in my town. It's not a gaming machine--but that's actually a good thing. Games, while at their best are works of art, are often a huge waste of time that take away from your learning about computers. So don't fret--hack.
Second, check out Carcass, Cynic and Meshuggah if you haven't already. : )
I remember being sent to a psychologist to see why I was such an underachiever in school. Around age 9 or 10 or so.
They didn't figure it out, but at least the ritalin perscription (which was definately not in vogue in those years, as it has been in recent years) wasn't pushed. No telling what I would be like now.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
comment:
" but as you learn critical business skills such as how to interoperate with other people without offending"
or other critical business skills like supressing your conscience or sense of ethics. Had to be said. Many people don't WANT to "play the corporate game", because it's dirty. Dirtier than scat.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Maybe at 29 I am out of the loop, but this fellow at 15 is way more coherent and thoughtful than the majority of my pin-head software engineer colleagues. Good show.
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life."
"You're gonna need a bigger boat." - Chief Brody
It's hard to define pop.
NIN is a good example. The Fragile has sold a lot less than Trent's previous works (ie. The Downward Spiral), and yet has gotten a lot of critical praise. Why? For one thing, it's a double-CD release, meaning that it's longer and costs a bit more. Radio airplay has been very light as there are few single-friendly tracks (and the few there are tend to have a bit of, um, radio unfriendly language or themes).
But in some ways, NIN is pop. Nine Inch Nails is probably the most visible example of industrial music out there. I mean, the guy is (albeit rarely) on MTV.
In that respect, pop isn't necessarily bad, as long as the artist doesn't compromise - and with The Fragile it's obvious that he didn't. It was quite obvious on first listen that the release wouldn't sell as well as TDS did simply because it wasn't so clear cut angst-y and yet wasn't exactly upbeat either. This drove some of the hangers-on away.
I liked NIN before it became semi-mainstream, and continued to like it when he gained some popularity (while certain pretentious assholes missed out on some of Reznor's best material). He's in a commercial slump right now, but also an artistic renaissance - doesn't bug me, as long as he doesn't take another 5 years to release an album. If anyone lets a band's popularity or lack thereof stop them from listening to it, they're going to miss out on a lot of good music.
I am in the middle of reading a book on the 'Millennial generation', ie. kids born on or after 1982. One interesting thing the book brought up that never occurred to me was that this resurgence of banal crap (N Sync, B. Spears, Backstreet Boys, and so on) is part of a revolving cycle. About every other decade a new generation starts off with 'safe', upbeat music. What is sacrificed in the way of importance and message is made up for in accessability and universal appeal. As those kids grow older things change and music begins to push bounds again. Early pop Beatles gave way to the counterculture of the late 60s and early/mid 70s. The Jackson 5 and disco gave way to grunge and hard rock. It's roughly a 20 year cycle.
Food for thought... Luckily, Mr. Reznor isn't going anywhere, nor are some of his predecessors (SMG, Pig, MDFMK, FLA, and a whole ton of old Skinny Puppy CDs). Those of us who just don't get the new stuff can sit back and wait - some of these goofy kids will eventually come up with something meaningful again, no worries.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- Jeff
---
nor are some of his predecessors (SMG, Pig, MDFMK, FLA, and a whole ton of old Skinny Puppy CDs)
---
Oh yeah, and I know these bands didn't necessarily come before NIN. "predecessors" was the wrong term. Oops.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- Jeff
---
I want to call myself something!
---
Here's your first problem. Don't worry about what you call yourself, and then you'll be on a path to true happiness.
If at some point in the future you walk/talk/act like a duck and eventually call yourself a duck, that's fine. You're a duck. But don't stress or obsess over it.
- Jeff A. Campbell
- Jeff
---
I fall into this catagory somewhat - only for me it's country music. (Yea, go ahead and gag.)
---
I won't gag. In fact, I'm intrigued. I've never heard country music before.
:>
- Jeff A. Campbell
- Jeff
It consistantly amazes me the generalizations I see on Slashdot every day. From the 'average Slashdot reader' to the 'average computer geek', everyone assumes that all geeks are the same. The same thing happens outside of 'our culture' - everyone stereotypes us as all the same, we're all geeks, we all sit in our basements alone every night, we all listen to the same music, and so on, and so on.
First of all, if you want a referance to the 'hacker culture', forget about averaging anything, that eliminates the diversity that makes each one of us unique. How can you average a 13 year old male geek from Minnesota, a 22 year old female networking specialist in India, and a 22 year old cybercafe owner in Mexico? The same goes for slashdot posts - some are hardcore geeks, the ones that wrote emacs, designed Debian, were there when ADA first cropped up. Some are aerospace engineers, CIS students. If you take an 'average', you eliminate all of that in one swell foop.
Someone asked if antisocial behaviour came before geekly behaviour, or vice-versa. That is not a yes-or-no thing, it's different for different individuals, and you'd have to ask each individual person. That question can't be answered by one kid.
Someone else asked if geeks were still at the same level, or if we were as revered as doctors and lawyers. Again, some commenters agreed, and said 'yes, they worship us as gods!', whereas my personal experience (and I'm less of an antisocial recluse-geek) was quite the opposite - being harassed, made fun of, butt of jokes, and so on. It's not a general thing, it varies from school to school and area to area.
People, please, can we stop generalizing and averaging everything out? Let's recognize diversity where others have failed to do so, let's not fall into the same trap again and again.
~Sentry21~
> Additionally the moment someone thinks "Music today is all noise and boom boom boom" is the moment their ego has gotten
> ahead of rationale.
Actually this is true. 90% of music today is crap. But 90% of music at any given time is crap. (With a nod to Theodore Sturgeon.)
> Yes you define good music. Your tastes define all and are the final say. The world should stop and solidify at your tastes.
T.S. Eliot once wrote that taste is not something you get born with, you develop. People who like music that is ``pop" tend to be people who really don't listen to music, just have it playing in the background while they do something else. if you actually listen to music, you develop taste.
Case in point: many years ago, I listened to The Bangles, & liked them (to be honest) mostly because this all-girl band were killer in miniskirts. Several years later, after listening to bands like The Posies, Pond, & Afghan Whigs (none of whom I have ever heard on the radio, BTW), I happened to listen tot hem again. And I was surpised that they still pretty good to listen to.
For the record, my taste in music may be dated, but is somewhat eclectic: I prefer The Posies & Screaming Trees to Nirvana, like Astor Piazzola, & wish I had bought some Schwester S tapes while I was over in Germany.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
One thing which always bugged me is the presumption that anyone who has the outward appearance of geekiness (i.e., anyone that is poorly dressed, or into computer hardware, software, etc) is presumed to be intelligent and/or capable. It's been my experience that this is simply not true. For instance, I (and I'm sure most of you have too) have known lots of "geeks" that are merely "techies"; they may know the latest specs on x86 processors for instance, but they lack a fundamental understanding and a capacity to do much more than drool over them. Similarly, I've known many that lack the motivation to do well in any career. Now this is not to say that I think geeks are dumber, less motivated, or what have you, but rather that they are not too different from the rest of population. What makes "geeks" (necessarily) different is where they are visibally different: in their dress, in their clothes, in their attitude, or what you have.
I might be able to understand this mistake from non-geeks, but why do so many so-called geeks, particularly accomplished geeks, buy into this idea too? I see it from many "geeks" I know and on forums like slashdot. Granted, this doesn't mean that one cannot infer with some certainty other characteristics about a "geek", but it simply goes way too far in my experience.
I didn't say it was a Danish company. How do you know there aren't any Swedes working there? Are you saying Danes are racist? No, seriously, I'm sorry I confused the Swedes and Norwegians. Sorry. I couldn't resist that one. I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. Anyway, if you noticed, that part of my post was meant to be a little humorous.
Switch the . and the @ to email me.
ADD is the most inaccurately diagnosed disorder in the nation (US -- no international stats, sorry). 74% of all ADD diagnoses have been found to be incorrect. That is to say that 74% of the people out there useing Ritalin (or some other focusing drug) shouldn't be useing it. Another interesting fact: 28% of all Bipolar II cases (clinical depression) were at one time useing Ritalin.
What is this society doing?
--C
I found this comment really insightful - it summarized my own thoughts own popularity/nerdiness/loserosity better than I have ever put them. I always thought that was true, that the pop people are less happy; they're too busy trying to conform and hold their "position" that they forget to just enjoy life. While they're insulting us "geeks" to try and make themselves look better, we're just ignoring them and having fun.
Ever consider that the "popular people" might actually *enjoy* their social circus? Sure, it's a never-ending merry-go-round of popularity contests, but the people who play them sure seem to enjoy them. All too often the people that can't play with the mainstream just end up creating some "alternative" which looks, smells and tastes just like the mainstream with a different set of criteria (ie, green hair) to regulate who matters and who doesn't, and a different set of icons and music soundtrack. The really funny thing is that the people who are "hip" to the alternative scene are often more elitist than the so-called popular people, largely because they're making a conscious effort to be different to begin with.
The pop culture people look happy, but they aren't. They need music and icons to tell them who to be.
Oh come on. At least be intellectually honest. For someone who spends 4 hours a day listening to death metal, accusing the "popular people" of needing some social signpost to orient them is really the height of hyprocracy. Where would Clinton's social compass be without his anti-music to guide him?
I agree. I think a better title would've been "Random Slashdot Reader". or "Random Teenage Slashdot Reader".
or "Teenage Mutant Slashdot Reader" !!!
--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Computer "geeks" probably have more experience with depression and thei -dont-care-if-i-am-a-rejected-loser-because-i-am- intelligent syndrome
:) When I look back on the bastards, I see a bunch of kids that are mostly drug addicts, or working as mechanics in some small garage.
And the solution, when you're the number one kid getting bullied in school is what?
I for one am a Very Intelligent Computer Geek - and have always been so (always, as in, since the age of 6 or 7).
You have to have something to look forward to, when you're going through the years of beeing bullied. I for one knew that the years would pass, and that when I grew up, I would become "much more" than the assholes.
How right I was.
Some people get depressed. I didn't. I started my own BBS, and spent most of my time writing on it, discussing with people three times my age. They didn't know or care about my age - they cared about the discussions. That was _great_.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
Train teachers better.
Or, in other words, rework the teacher education curriculum, require education majors to meet higher standards, make them take more courses, attend more practicums, etc. This will make it harder to become a teacher. Intelligent people will say "Gee, I can follow this stringent, rigorous course of study and be paid $19,000 a year, or I can go into engineering and be paid $40,000 a year."
It's not enough to merely train teachers better. If you set the bar higher but don't pay teachers better, you will lose teachers.
Here's my plan:
Step 1: Double every teacher's salary
Step 2: Double the number of teachers
Step 3: Eliminate the dead wood.
Note that step three will likely require firing everyone who was a teacher before step 1.
There are very few exceptions to the old saw that states "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't teach, teach teachers."
And to answer your question, no, the time I spent as a public school teacher didn't make me bitter or cynical at all.
Speak for yourself. Maybe you didn't belong on Ritalin, but it really irks me when people start trying to decide for other people that drugs are not good for anyone. For many people drugs are basically lifesavers - they help a great many people - where do you get off assuming that these people 'did a bad thing' to Clinton? Do you know *anything* about his ADD case? Why do you assume automatically that his case was anything like yours?
I'm not ADD, but I used to be unipolar (depression), and you see all the same sort of ignorant anti-drug arguments. No two cases are quite the same - some people might not need drugs, but for many people it is the only option. Please don't attempt to be the judge of what is right for other people.
It's good to hear that the geeks of tomarrow are getting the classical teaching of yesterday. Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it! (land war in asia...) Hence, we better not hear about you spending more money on marketing than development for mentalUNIX...
But one comment as far as package tools: you should really take a look at alien, it handles most of the major packages relatively well. to quote: Alien is a program that converts between the rpm, dpkg, stampede slp, and slackware tgz file formats. You might consider using them to achieve your goals... 'Why build a tank from scratch when B.A. Barrachas can just grab sheet metal and put it on a van!'
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
i like hip-hop and the british derivative/alternate triphop (eg massive attack, tricky, portishead).
really though to say "i only like x type of music" is silly. you are really restricing yourself. along with hip/hop i listen to alot of other stuff from johnny cash to deadkennedys to classical to indian pujabi. it really depends on my mood.
when i was clintons age i really only listened to punk though (black flag, dk, misfits, crucifucks, etc.) it was what i realted to the most. since then i have become less 13373 (or however it's spelled) and more open minded.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
Oh, yeah. I know what you mean. If only they wore decent clothes. If only they didn't act like that. They bring it on themselves. The people it happens to must have something wrong with them. It only happens to, you know, that kind of person. What do you expect going out dressed like that. Well, don't go out after dark alone. She was asking for it. She must be a tease. She must have done something to provoke him.
Oh, wait, I forgot: were we talking about women getting raped or geeks getting beaten up? Oh, it doesn't matter, the logic is the same: it must have been the victim's fault, right?
Being depressed is self-destructive? Gosh, I'm sure that all those depressed teen /.ers reading this will take this right to heart and stop being depressed right now! If only someone had told them earlier that their depression was the cause of the scorn of their peers, I'm sure they would have stopped immediately.
Whoops, that was my sarcasm limit for the day...
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Yes, it is somewhat of a paradox to have these people pressuring each other to be different when in fact they are pressuring each other to be like said subculture. Some will appropriate anyone who they don't like or has become too popular as not being a real .
It is doublespeak. However most of these subcultures were born of the rejection from the popular and so being different is redefined as being unlike any "normals". The most likely reason why they all dress alike is because they feel a need to fit in with their new peer group - just like any other normal human. You don't stop being a kid once you associate the term goth, punk, candy kid, heavy metal rocker, etc with self.
"Umm...I don't think we are talking about the same 'Non-popular music'. There's a lot of 'Non-popular music' out there...what I'm thinking of isn't 'angst ridden'...and how can you say all 'Non-popular music' is 'personally boring'? Whatever"
Sorry, I was specifically talking about the type of music this Clinton person in the interview was talking about.
"My point was that while some people form their entire personality based on pop music, which is bad, taking some of your personality from music is not bad"
Well if you mean personality as in general mood, whatever, yeah sure. I listen and enjoy lots of different types of music like techno/trance, classical, older rock, whatever. If I'm in my car or doing some particularly boring work music can be uplifting and enjoyable.
My POINT though was that it is pathetic to actually think that there is a profound message in a certain genre of music - especially if its nonsense like punk music.
OK, so some of your personality may be dictated by some of the music you listen to and vice versa, partially through the people you associate with with the same interest in music - but please elucidate how music profoundly affects how you live. I'd like to hear.
"There are plenty of songs I can think of which have given me insights"
While this may be true, I'm not convinced that any three minute song can communicate any really profound ideas. The level of information in literature, textbooks and field specific finding/position books makes the so called profound messages in music seem pathetic.
That said, a good song or movie don't have to be chock full of profound messages. One strong communicated message can make you learn something that results in you reconfiguring your world view.
I thorougly enjoy music and movies as art and appreciate their respective mediums ability to convey emotion and perhaps a little positive and negative life pattern recognition (I admit, I even cry when viewing formulaic movies).
But profound insight - not really. Non-popular Music specifically is mostly angst ridden and personally boring. I'd rather listen to something like the latest radiohead which really doesn't have a specific message - or classical music just for the enjoyment of listening to musical sound.
Pisses me off too. Most of the time it seems to happen when the kid can't sit still in class, and the teacher suggests to the parents that the kid might have ADD and need to be put on Ritalin. That happened to me - I was on Ritalin for 2 weeks but Momz took me off it cause she didn't like the effect it had on me. She said it was a big mistake to put me on it in the first place, and I'm glad she recognized that.
I couldn't sit still in class because it was mad boring. Maybe rote learning works for some people, but I can't deal with it. I like to think and understand, not just memorize facts some monotone-talkin' teacher wrote on a chalkboard.
So yeah, it's downright unconscionable that such a large percentage of kids get doped up on Ritalin so they can pay attention in class. It's the schools that need to be fixed, not the kids.
--
man, yeah hip-hop (some, not all) truly outshines this electronica movement. especially when all that synth crap starts sounding the same. theres very little message/meaning/nice beats. Some gangster hiphop is just plain entertaining. Outkast like u mentioned is phat and other groups know how to have fun and nothing but. Also, Being a geek can be rather helpful, it can help u meet nice chix at a boarding school "hey can u help me setup my network connection?" (sounds like the intro o a pr0no if u ask me) My freinds span the social strata. Its not that bad to be a geek anymore, people don't make fun of you unless you stay home all day, but its fine to code and be 'l33t where im from, just dont overdo it and itll be fine -n-rs-
I took ritalin for the last 4 years of my 9 year stint at college.
It was the only way I was going to pay attention long enough to the drivel that I was forced to sit through -- yes, some of it was fun, but for the most part it was just painful. I have trouble respecting and therefore paying attention to things that try to make me conform.
At any rate, I've since graduated and have been free of all stimulants (even caffeine) for quite some time now, with no problems whatsoever.
It was a necessary evil to get me a degree. Which, when all is said and done, I am honestly glad I got. But I don't need it anymore, and am much happier without it.
If I had known his name was Clinton, I would have asked him if he knew what the meaning of "is" is. Maybe this Clinton would have known. Doh!
Fis
I used to spend too much energy being disgusted with pop music and its fans, just as I spent too much time feeling sorry for kids in high school who were apparently always trying to fit in. Eventually I realized that I was working almost as hard to not fit in and to stand apart. When I got comfortable with that I could finally enjoy a Backstreet Boys song once in a while during the drive home from work.. What the hell, I'm not hurting anyone..Guilty pleasures are an important part of life. =)
There is some middle ground, and I'm grateful that I finally found it (somewhere in high school). The hardships of social life in middle/high school were enough to make me want to become a teacher, if only to go in there and somehow convince all of the kids to relax and just do their own thing and learn to forget about what everyone else thinks. It was a hard-learned lesson for myself and I just wish to impart my wisdom on others..
This was an IT class. Presumably the students were there to learn how a computer works.
...or ones such as SPK, Einsturzende Neubauten (sp?) Throbbing Gristle, Cabaret Voltaire, and may others, who really led the industrial "revolution" (damn, that's just too easy a metaphor :)
...Or, the ones that are taking it in new and fascinating directions today, such as Imminent Starvation, Winterkalte, Feindflug, Gridlock, and others of that sort...
Problem is, especially given the more esoteric musics that you hear in the "industrial" genre, pretty much all the bands you name qualify as "pop". Hell, i've seen all of them on MuchMusic at least once :) Now, if you ever see a video for Imminent Starvation, i'd sell my own mom for a copy ;)
Elitist mode := OFF
Thanks for listening :)
C
--
C
--
Democracy would work just fine if people weren't so goddamned stupid.
People who like music that is ``pop" tend to be people who really don't listen to music, just have it playing in the background while they do something else. if you actually listen to music, you develop taste.
And, as a footnote, those who do NOT like pop music are those who are too insecure in their tastes to admit to it.
My primary listening areas are things like John Zorn, Beethoven's late quartets and sonatas, Albert Ayler, Shostakovich's quartets and symphonies, anything Coltrane did (all of those are among the most difficult music ever produced), plus all kinds of underground hip hop, metal, alternative country, techno, old and new jazz, ethnic musics, etc., etc., etc., etc., but I happy to say that I find most N*Sync and Britney Spears music irrestibly catchy. Anybody who doesn't is lying.
I think that some geeks are more respected because not all geeks are anti-social anymore. I'm a highschool student, I run linux on a few computers (not a guru, but I can get around), and I do a lot of web programming (I know, the evil, weak stuff, PHP/MySQL, JavaScript, ASP/MS SQL), infact that's how I make all my money. I can do the 6:30-10:30 tv/computer during the week, and then on weekends or holidays like this, that turns into 6:30-9:00 hanging out with friends, and 9:00-? partying, getting wasted, having a great time...I mean over this holiday vaction I've been to a party every night (except when spending time with family celebrating x-mas). One of the kids that I hang out with and see at all the parties is also a computer geek, and he's known as a big partier.
computer geek != anti-social
"I told you a million times not to exaggerate!"
Oh, nice moderating this guy down because he doesn't like electronica. How pathetic, that a valid comment goes to '-1, Flamebait' because the moderators lack the ability to distinguish subjective from objective opinion.
Free music from Jack Merlot.
Seriously. My roomate is quoted as saying, "A girlfriend is like two eighteen unit courses." That translates to 36 units, or 36 hours per week, or just under 4 hours per day for the 7 day week. (I did all that math without a calculator :) )
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
I am in high school/college now and consider myself a nerd. Not because I am anti-social or have no friends; quite the opposite. I spend most of my free time with friends who are not majorly into computers. However, there is a constant track of my mind wondering, "What's the latest post on Slashdot?" "When is 2.4 REALLY coming out?" "Is my box still up? I sure hope so... damned DDoS" I think it's a state of mind that indicates your entry into nerd-dom. --Gavin
Why??? If i was on a desert island, with a computer, and there was females around, i'd want to STAY, not build a boat ;)
-DVK
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
If so, I'm not a normal Slashdot reader, and didn't quite realize it.
/. until after high school, but I did spend plenty of time coding, and do consider myself a geek.
This is my biggest complaint about Jon Katz and his "Hellmouth" series, and that "normal Slashdot reader" thing. It seems like we as a Slashdot community are forming/have formed a stereotype of what a "geek" is or should be.
I was not a loner in high school. I had lots of friends, was very active, and yes, I was also happy. I was also a math/computer whiz who got very good grades. I didn't find
So let's not narrow down what we think a geek is, but rather appreciate how diverse we are.
===================
-
Apparently, kids in Europe must be "immune" to ADD; there are little to no diagnoses of it there at all. ADD is something America specific, most of the rest of the world sees it as bad science.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
Before you dismiss Keirsey as some crackpot, I suggest you read some of his other material. He is one of the most respected psychologists in the country. Plus, his suggested treatment for children misdiagnosed with A.D.D. makes a hell of a lot more sense than pumping them full of Ritalin.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
I'm under the impression that new music never sucks. Music always changes and your tastes never change that much from what you were initially introduced to. Right? Well, not necessarily, but for the sake of argument, let's just say that our tastes don't stray *too* much. Despite the fact that the music "sucks" in your opinion, people have to understand that music caters to the changing of the times and the evolution of musical taste. I'll admit that modern rock pissed me off in the early nineties. I grew up in the late eighties and I loved Def Leppard, Don Henley, New Kids On The Block *dips head in shame* ... Then my dad got me into seventies rock. And wow, it still kicks ass. In the last year or two, I've gotten into modern rock such as Metallica, Creed, and lesser known bands like Dust For Life and American Pearl. 95% of the people in this country probably thing American Pearl sucks. I love them. Sorry... that's the way things go.
What's my point? My point is that music is about individualism. It isn't about pleasing everyone that hears it. So what if 75% of Americans hate Britney's music. If even one tenth of that other 25% buy one of her albums, that's about 6 million record sales. And by today's standards, that doesn't suck. In conclusion, we should not decide what music sucks and what doesn't popularly. I say, if music is good enough to make it to the mainstream, even if only for a moment, then it doesn't suck.
Then there's all the factors of why this band or that song or this genre ... sucks. It's a bunch of crap. Music only sucks when individuals don't want to hear it. But just because Bing Crosby sucks by today's standards, does that mean his music sucks? No. It's his creation. It's his art. (arguably) And that can be said about all musicians and their music. It doesn't have to conform to anything, and you don't have to listen to anything you don't want to.
So those of you complaining about music that sucks so horribly, why don't you stop your bitching and go out and listen to something you like. (or make your own?)
Hip-hop culture is as much a reality as geek culture. I've been involved in both, although the former is much more creative.
I believe this wholeheartedly. Hip-hop is very creative. A friend of mine has a pair of turntables, another friend of mine has a phat ass keyboard, and I've got a buttload of audio software. Another friend of mine is a producer and has a couple racks of audio equipment at his studio.
I love hip-hop, I've written several rhymes, I've made several tracks. I'd love to get into the hip-hop industry, it's the only thing that I love more than computers.
Ms. Jackson is a very good song. Unfortunately, I get the impression that it's going to become quickly overplayed from what people have told me. I hear it's on TV all the time, they play it at clubs all the time, and it's always on the radio. I don't watch MTV, I don't listen to the radio, and I haven't been to a club in about 3 months, so I'm oblivious to the whole overplayed scenario. It's a great song, but I don't believe it's the best on the CD. Red Velvet, Humble Mumble, and Spaghetti Junction are all rivals.
Lately, I've been listening to The Roots' illadelph halflife a lot as well as De La Soul's new cd. I'm awaiting both Method Man and Redman's new cds (both solos). De La Soul is slated to release 2 more cds in the Art Official Intelligence series. I was disappointed with Phife's Ventilation. A couple of good tracks, the rest sucked, IMHO. Q-Tip definitely outshined him in the solo realm, even though I like Phife better than his former anal-retentive nasal partner. It's Q-Tip's fault that the tribe fell apart, and I believe TCQ will see a reunion only if Q-Tip apologizes to Phife. I hope we see it happen.
Anyhow, I'm way off-topic.
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
You know it's interesting, but I almost never encounter geeks that listen to hip-hop. It's most always metal/punk.
Of course, I differ a lot from most geeks. I was pretty popular in high school. I knew everybody. I knew the preps, I knew the skaters, I knew the punkers, I knew the geeks, I just knew everybody. I don't listen to punk. Can't stand it. I love hip-hop. A Tribe Called Quest, Q-Tip, Phife, Outkast (IMHO the best rap group ever, period, been listening to Kast since southernplayalisticadillacmuzik dropped in '94). EPMD, Redman, Eightball & MJG, Mos Def, Black Eyed Peas, Common, Talib Kweli, Goodie Mob, Jurassic 5, Twista, Timbaland, All City, Scarface, De La Sol, Tupac, Busta Rhymes, Wu-tang, etc... Of course, I've always loved Sublime & 311, too, way back before either of them were ever on the radio or MTV.
I'm just wondering if there's *anybody* that reads slashdot that listens to hip-hop as well, because I've never encountered a fellow geek that enjoys it as much as I do.
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
I always thought that was true, that the pop people are less happy; they're too busy trying to conform and hold their "position" that they forget to just enjoy life. While they're insulting us "geeks" to try and make themselves look better, we're just ignoring them and having fun.
... but then, look at me. I'm a geek, I dream about code, but I also enjoy CHR music and I was elected to student government back in High School. What does that make me? A hideous mutant with no social abilities and no self-distinction?
That's not insightful. No more than them insulting geeks in the first place. It's just putting the shoe on the other foot.
Pop People: Hahaha! Look at the geeks! They have no social skills, they can't interact with people so they interact with computers! What losers!
Geeks: Hahaha! Look at the pop people! They have no real social skills, they just emulate what they see Britney Spears do! What losers!
Any attempts to classify any group into neat, tidy little boxes is bound to fail. It doesn't matter if the group is pop people or geeks.
NO CARRIER
Actually, thought it was 'ordinary', not 'average'... still, I would not describe him as ordinary by any standard.
/. attracts. Not average or ordinary (or even representative) by any standard I can think of, but certainly a well-regarded, intelligent and technically capable young individual that I want to think is out there reading and contributing.
/.'er as goatsex, hotgrits, penis bird signal 11, osm types -- it is nice to read something that gives me some hope for the current crop of 'teenage computer geeks' that are capable of more than posting garbage and actually contribute to our slice of society.
And yes, I agree that the slashdot 'community' is very diverse. Clinton is probably what most of us would point to as an outstanding example of the kind of person that
Sometimes I tend to think of the average or ordinary
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
hmmm.... I didn't get the impression they were looking for an average/representative person to ask questions. They did say 'ordinary' not 'average' - by this I took it to mean someone out of the crowd, instead of well-known figure as they usually pick for these top-10 question/interview thingies.
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Yeah, but the people with yellow/green hair think they need to have yellow/green hair and intentionally be different to be accepted.
Graduating from high school a few years ago, and soon to be graduating college, I can definitely attest that being a "geek" has moved up a few notches. It isn't football or even "drama club" coolness, but we're indentified as having our own strengths and certain kind of charisma, instead of being perceived as the antisocial slacker of yesteryear.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
However, sometimes it's extremely nice to have someone to turn to when you're tired of the usual routine, or when you just need to get your mind of everything else. It doesn't hurt to get out of the house, as long as you can manage your time. :P Do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? That all depends on the people involved.
--
Attention all planets of the Solar Federation! We have assumed control! - Neil Peart
Its almost a shame that I have to work/live with arrogant know-nothings everyday... when very interesting, intelligent, likeminded people are scattered around the globe. All in all this kid sounds like a fine person.
;)
Good luck to you.
Anyone every think to build a geek-commune?
Correct. And that's exactly what the better teachers started doing with me - which is why I got an excellent education, particularly in the earlier grades. The teachers who didn't get it were the ones who ended up with a bored, cranky kid; those who did made all the difference (and had more fun too).
sulli
RTFJ.
If/when I have kids I'll make sure they have ample opportunities to play sports. This will keep the Ritalin away - and it's healthy too!
(By the way: you can play soccer and be a geek at the same time. Not difficult. On topic: does the subject of the interview, by chance?)
sulli
RTFJ.
Thank heavens they didn't have Ritalin when I was a kid. I was one of those smart but disruptive ones in first and second grade - often got nasty notes to my parents saying I was mouthing off in class - and had they put me on Ritalin I am sure I would have learned much less.
sulli
RTFJ.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE! In the software engineering field I've noticed exactly what you have mentioned, which is that people naturally buy into the myth that anyone who is poorly dressed, and of an unkempt look, preferably talks about Linux and anything else "counter-culture", naturally simply must be some sort of genius hacker. It's the paradigm of the glass ceiling in software development : So long as you have non-ascending traits you are a god among your co-workers, but as you learn critical business skills such as how to interoperate with other people without offending you appear to be of lesser talent.
Of course one can overcome the `detriment' of dressing well and having good mannerisms by constantly proving themselves, but nonetheless it's annoying having a incompetent co-worker perceived as a contender because they cut their own hair, have constantly bad breath and can't talk to anyone without putting them in a mindless stupor of boredom.
I am Boron!
Perhaps my mood is bad, but why is this 3, Funny? 3, Insightful is more like it. =)
Actually, while you're young, you should learn to ration sleep. Attending MSMS forced me to ratchet down to five hours or so plus power naps. College actually got easier--mainly because I got lazy because scholarships are paying for it and my parents and I aren't--so my sleep schedule stretched back to a "normal" amount. Now that I'm doing everything at once, those valuable techniques I learned as a kid come in wonderfully handy.
--
-- Geof F. Morris
Don't take my comment as anti-Ritalin, or anti-any kind of drug. My complaint is very much about misdiagnosis. Misdiagnosis is a potentially serious error, whether in engineering or medicine. That and using drugs merely "because something must be done and this is something" instead of proper diagnosis and proper prescription of the correct drug for the condition in question.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
mobydisk wrote, among other things, to inquire,
> And another thing. Does everybody here think that because they read Slashdot that they are "different?"
no, i'm proud to say i don't need *slashdot* to make me different.
i'm different because i'm a sixteen year old *girl* who loves linux, even though i know practically nothing about it as yet, because while i was on holiday the power supply in my desktop died, and i'm not bothering to install redhat on my laptop because of its wretched winmodem, that obviously i knew nothing about when i bought it.
i'm different because i love to read science fiction and technopunk thrillers, british comic fantasy, greek surrealist poetry, pre-revolutionary french biography, classical greek literature, classic british and french novels, dilbert, books on italian architecture, and everything else worth reading. it's quite an expensive little hobby.
i'm different because i listen to opera, german industrial garage music, alternative folk/punk/rock chicks like ani difranco and liz phair, cabaret tunes, a little jazz, medieval choral music, bach and mozart, greek pop music and rembetika, and classical greek poetry set to music.
i'm different because two-tone chanel slingbacks make me swoon, the discovery of a perfect new lipstick fills me with euphoria, and all i want for christmas is a hermes trenchcoat and *anything* made of barguzin sable.
i'm different because i love to write almost as much as i love to read, and the book of poetry i am working on has already been called "exquisite" by the founder of an award-winning poetry publishing house.
i'm different because i'm an active member of a centre-right political party in a little south pacific country most of you probably wouldn't be able to find on a map given an hour with a magnifying glass.
i'm different because i'm in limbo between schools, because i'd rather flip burgers for the rest of my life than go back to the intellectually stifling hellhole i recently escaped from (a feat i managed only because of a sleep disorder, and low blood pressure, that reduced my attendance to 49% last year, not a day of which i actually skipped), and the only correspondence school in my country doesn't think i'd quite "fit in" with them, either.
typical slashdot readers? there's no such thing! you people should know that by now!
dictatrix, aka the duchess.
I work in the computer industry and was just wondering......does one have to live, sleep and breath computers to make it big?
And is there such a thing nowadays as the stereotypicial nerd? What are they like now?
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Relax...
"LEGOs" is not plural for LEGO. It is slang for "LEGO bricks".
Anyway, my question is this. It seems that all the high schoolers (and the former high schoolers) have long histories with computers. Clinton, for example, has been using them (and learning all sorts of languages and stuff) since he was 8. Is there anyone like me out there? I have a huge identity problem - there is no one at my school that I could call a true friend (maybe one or two). I feel like I am SO behind the slashdot geek group that I can't identify with geeks. I want to call myself something!
I am a fairly average social reject. I spend more time on slashdot than I do with people at school (aside from in school, of course). I enjoy computer games a lot, yet I long to be part of a group and have friends like me. I listen to good music and detest pop. I really dislike popular people. I hope I can find someone out there who has similar sentiments - I feel so excluded even from the slashdotters. Please respond, preferably via email (remove the SPAM's from the address). Thank you in advance.
I got the same impression. For 15, he's got a pretty level head on his shoulders. If he worked in the same place I do, I have a feeling I'd never have known his age, if he talks and expresses himself as well in person (which it seems he probably does). One guy I worked with was like that. I talked to him for 6 months about a multitude of topics (from games to politics to world events, etc) and assumed he was close to my age (somewhere in his early to mid-20s). The guy was barely 18!
Of course, when I was in puberty, ritalin made me damned near psychotic -- angry all the time and prone to violent outbursts that left me wondering what was going on, even as they were occuring. So I got off of it, but got a new prescription sophomore year of college. It is a really useful tool for adult ADDs, but taking it regularly, 2 or 3 times a day would be somewhat counterproducitve, for me at least, because coming down leaves your brain as numb as a 7 hour cross-country.
Ritalin is really useful for people who are ADD. The problem is that only maybe 25% of ADD diagnoses are accurate.
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
No offense intended to the interview subject (really, I mean that), but what was the point of this? Somebody wrote, half-kidding, that we don't actually have any idea if this is really representative of the average /. user, which I think is actually a good point. Because if Clinton isn't the average /. user, then it's just "Interview With Some Guy."
I guess what I'm reall asking is this: What brought this on? How did this come to be?
-Waldo
sorry, pet peeve.
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
When I bought my last car, I got a buddy at work, who is good with cars, to help me.
South Africans on the whole are pretty apathetic/ignorant about bad service, I'm afraid. They tend to take a "roll with the punches" attitude, which isn't really a good thing. One of the largest computer retailers here is called "incredible connection", but most technical people refer to it as "incredible corruption". Their profit margin is close to 100% and their service is crapper than you could possibly begin to imagine. Yet most people don't even seem to realise that they are being screwed over royally, and even when they do, they tend to just shrug it off, saying something like "what can we do about it?". 'After sales service' is almost unheard of in this country. Somebody else I know bought a computer from Mecer, another large computer retailer here, and it literally wasn't set up properly (this is VERY common when buying computers in SA) - the DVD drive didn't work, there were size copies of the graphics card drivers installed, the computer would freeze up all the time - and yet this person called me before calling the company, because she was under the impression that she had somehow messed the computer up (another common misconception that makes people here afraid to demand service.)
A friend of mine wanted to put a CD drive in his computer, but it had the old red-paint warranty-void crap on the back. Buying a CD drive is simple, right? I mean, buy the drive, get an IDE cable, set the jumpers, and in 10 minutes you're up and running. But this place needed *several days* to install it, and were charging big bucks for so-called labour. He was promised it would be finished by a certain day, when we went there on that day, they hadn't even begun on it. The secretary was rude with us as well. We asked for it to be done while we waited, so we went off to the back to painfully watch a clueless mininum-wage "technician" attempt to install it. After he'd put it in the computer wouldn't start up at all. It was a big mess, but we eventually did manage to escape that place with a working CD ROM drive. But he voided his warranty and never went there again for further upgrades. But that store is still there and going strong, three years later.
It sounds like it's a bit better in the states, but over here, the computer retailers have waaay too much demand to care about little things like service.
Ritalin is really useful for people who are ADD. The problem is that only maybe 25% of ADD diagnoses are accurate.
Here, Here. When I was in school I was of the opinion that ritalin was merely a vehicle for the pharmeceutical companies to fill their pockets either more, and children were easy targets. I mean, what parent would deny their children the chance to be "normal" if all it takes is a little pill?
Now that I'm an adult, and after I've had some rather serious psychological problems that very nearly drove me the point of needing hospitilization, I'm a little more lenient with my views on drugs for mental health. Among other things, my shrink diagnosed me with ADD, and I laughed at first. But after being on wellbutrin for a while, I think he's right. I still don't think I should have been on anything in high school, however. I'd probably still be wasting my time in college and doing what society told me I should be doing, instead of doing what I actually wanted to do. I think adult ADD should probably be treated, and it's not a bad thing. I think it's probably also diagnosed more accurately.
Just my 2 (drugged :) cents.
I certainly agree that there can't be any real 'average' /. reader just chosen. Being picked by the maintainers of the site means you may fit what /. wants to present as the average consumer of their site. I think what we have here is a person that fits a lot of the 'stereotypes' that the rest of the world gives to geeks, and this interview was probably meant to be some sort of platform for a geek to step up and say I'm not that stereotype.
/. reader to be kind of silly, if someone put a gun to my head and asked me for to describe one, this kid would've matched pretty close to what I'd say. Not sure if that's good or bad.
To be perfectly honest, this interview seems to almost have reinforced that stereotype. No offense to Clinton, beacuse I am friends with plenty of people like him, and find them to be some of the most decent and intelligent and interesting people i know. If you look at his answers, the most indepth response is, by far, the question having to do with his MentalUNIX distro. Some of the other questions, questions involving defining points in everyone's life, relationships/school/jobs, are just sort of brushed over and only half answered. I honestly hope that Clinton was just being lazy, and if he really wanted to, could easily write at least as much about his thoughts on girls or school or whatever than he did on a computer project.
I dunno, although as I said earlier, I find the concept of an average
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Not if it's done right.
While I generally agree with you, criticism can serve a very valuable function - saving consumer dollars. As a former film critic, I dealt with a similar situation, i.e. an overwhelmingly large number of choices and consumers with little idea where to best spend their money. I found that the best approach was to be very up-front with my prejudices. I did a column on them annually. It was always something along the lines of: "I like this stuff and this actress and if I see a movie with her in it and that kind of subject matter, I'll overlook all kinds of glaring flaws that might drive you crazy." Those of my readers who shared my tastes could then read my reviews and know that if I liked a movie, they stood a better-than-even chance of liking it, too. Likewise, I frequently got email from people who said "I know you like crap. You said so. Anytime you recommend a movie, I know to avoid it." That was fine; I was helping them, too.
The problem with criticism, as I see it, is that most critics come to confuse their prejudices with an objective standard of quality. It just ain't so. But as long as the prejudices of a critic are known (and s/he doesn't take him/herself too seriously), crticism can be a very useful tool helping the reader best decide where to spend their entertainment dollars.
I don't know who does criticism in this fashion nowadays. The Absolute Sound, a magazine that critiques audio equipment and recordings, used to require a lengthy essay every year from every contributing critic on their musical tastes, equipment, and predispositions of judgement. Any intellectually honest critic or published outlet for critical writing should do the same.
I really have noticed that "normal" people have invaded my High School CS class.. most of them are trying to learn C, and can barely use AOL. It is very sad
god forbid someone wants to learn something they don't know!
this is the same kind of elitism jocks use when they think your sad bacuase you can't throw a ball as well as them.
I applaud people who take something thats really difficult for them. They have more balls them someone taking class's that are easy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Pop music isn't bad. It's worse than that. It is horrible. I say, down with pop...I really like independent bands...I really like bands like cannibal corpse, cryptopsy, NiN, orgy, the offspring, NoFX, rage against the machine
Good day to you! Excellent replies though I do take issue with the evaluation of music. Firstly NiN, Offspring, RATM : That IS Pop. No matter how you slice it that's no less pop that Britney Spears. I'm not saying that devalues their musical capabilities or contribution in any way (because I don't think that way), but just as an FYI. It's like back in the mid 90s when "Alternative" music comprised the vast majority of radio play. Alternative? Uh...
Secondly what does the independent bands moniker contribute to the music? Seriously this reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend some time back. We both were fans of a certain band and he then revealed to me that he was becoming less of a fan because the band was "becoming too popular". Huh? Too popular? How does that affect if you like the music or if it strikes a chord or you can empathize with it? Not liking something because it's popular is just as bad as liking it because it's popular. The throngs of weenies screaming for Boys to Men are no worse than the "counter-culture" lackeys in the shadows dissing all those pop mavens. There was an excellent suck.com article on this but I don't have the link handy: Anyone have it by chance?
Additionally the moment someone thinks "Music today is all noise and boom boom boom" is the moment their ego has gotten ahead of rationale. Yes you define good music. Your tastes define all and are the final say. The world should stop and solidify at your tastes.
Whenever you think about anything that involves taste, always realize that everyone knows what is best for themselves, and there is no way to question someones personal taste. If someone likes listening to a beeping door chime 24 hours a day then that's what turns their crank. Critical evaluations of music, art, etc. are just foolish and narcisstic : Let ME tell you what _I_ like because obviously what YOU like is shit and you just haven't seen the light.
While this isn't true of most IT teachers, I must say that there are some real bad ones out there. Mind you, the exam boards aren't much better.
I believe until either this or last year, they didn't accept "Linux" as an answer for "Give an example of an operating system."
In my opinion, computing in the secondary education system teaches children to use a computer - not to understand a computer. Sure, we [and I say we, 'cos I've just entered college] were taught to change font sizes and type [50wpm before the class. Gotta love that.] - but if something went wrong, hardly any of the other kids had any idea what do.
"Miss! How do I save this to disk?"
"Click there... that's it, select that..."
The teacher was telling the kid what to click on - and he was just blindly doing it, and not learning how to *use* a computer. In my opinion, that's the wrong way to go about it.
I have to second this emphatically. I spent most of my high school career believing (sometimes rightfully so) that I was so completely different that there wasn't anyone I could associate with, much less relate to on an intimate level. In a way, I was right, because it wasn't until I was out of high school, into college, and met someone. Amazingly enough, we met online, through IRC no less, and have been excellent friends and a great couple for over a year.
One of the things you never think you "need" is companionship, and in the past I would have been the first to agree with you. However, once you have that special someone, you'll realize you never want to go back.
People speak badly of meeting someone online out of fear that a person won't accurately describe who they are, and that they'll fall for a false image. That's a very true reality, but just remember that choosing someone to be with is like every other choice in life: no one's making you do it, and don't settle for anything less than perfect for both of you. There's nothing wrong with meeting online. Much like people meet others whom they are compatible with in bookstores or class, you stand a much better chance of meeting someone you'll get along with if you both frequent the same areas. Cari and I are real examples of this. :)
So have fun, and don't forget to make sure your life is fulfilling in all aspects, not just computers.
---
...of Slashdot readers in general? If so, I'm not a normal Slashdot reader, and didn't quite realize it. I don't listen to heavy metal, and don't come home and do music/IRC/TV. When I was in school, that was what the "normal" kids did. They talked (on the phone mostly, some did IRC) and liked TV & music. The nerds were on their computers morning and night. That didn't mean IRC or Quake, it meant coding.
And another thing. Does everybody here think that because they read Slashdot that they are "different?"
11pm: sleep
What happens from 10:30 til 11? Being a young computer user, there can be only one answer: He is masturbating furiously to all the pr0n he got on IRC.
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Can't concentrate in a class that's so stultifyingly boring that even the morons are losing the plot? He's got ADD, put him on Ritalin.
Have a common cold? Put him on antibiotics (never mind that antibiotics do nothing for viral infections).
It just appears from where I'm sitting that over-prescription - using drugs as the silver bullet - runs a bit rampant, that's all.
I don't remember what this scenario is called, but it goes something like this:
1. Something must be done
2. This is something
3. Therefore we will do this.
which is like saying:
1. My dog has four legs.
2. A cat has four legs 3. Therefore my dog is a cat.
It seems a lot of time, teachers see a kid who's bored, maybe a bit of a smart-ass who talks a lot, and Something Must Be Done. They tell the parents, "Oh he's got ADD" as the Something in question. And the chain of misdiagnosis begins.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Actually, i think A practical Guide to Boatbuilding is on disc number 5, in the contrib section.
My idea of the average /. user, a snapshot:
/. topics, they may or may not like, but I'm pretty sure we're all pretty much on those three).
Likes to web surf a little bit.
Likes computers, technology, scifi,
(other
Likes commenting to strangers about those three (and other topics)
Probably a little opinionated. Probably a little insecure in those opinions; (call it "open-minded" thus enjoys reading others opinions.
Likes learning new things from people who know (or at least can convince others that they know).
Probably a bit bored.
Every other characteristic is probably up for grabs.
Over the years, I've conversed with really stupid people, or people who know a lot about microchip design, enough to do it for a living, and for a hobby, they comment intelligently on the latest cosmological data and theories. There are people who are MCSE's, who dig Windoz and believe in a single-vendor solution and dominance (because that's what "the market" dictates) - and there are others who are violently pro open source, and write their own OSes. Lots of people who are web designers. There are very few true democrats OR republicans, just people who are afraid of the other side, and die-hard libertarians, followers of Ayn Rand, and die-hard socialists. Some of us believe we should "melt the guns", and others believe that "an armed society is a polite society". There are a lot of very spiritual people, lots of pagans, even a few satanists, even a few Christians, and then there are a number of solid athiests. And then there are a lot of agnostics. Fans of just about every kind of music imaginable (except Pop - er, hey that's funny, isn't it?:)
Lots of us are unathletic, or don't carry an interest in athletics. Some of us work out 20 hours a week, play football, lots of us are into martial arts.
Some of us were picked on as children for being different, others were embraced and cherished for those differences. Others were just not perceived as being so different.
Many of us are caffeine addicts. Some of us drink, or even consider beer to be a hobby, or an intellectual pursuit.
I'm sure we've all visited a porn site or two.
We all think Cowboy Neal is a big dick.
Yes it's a big wide wired world out there. We're from all over. Different generations, different upbringings, different economic status. Some of us live behind filters, but we're all net-connected, we all have voices that want to be heard, and ears that want to listen, minds that want to learn, and we all dream of a better tomorrow - yet fear the coming dark times. We're from all over. Different generations, different upbringings, different economic status.
Billions and billions of us.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Personally, Id rather have A practical guide to boatbuilding.
-=Bob
Hi,
Clinton, in your response to the girlfriend question, you say you have 'too much free time' on your hands. But in your schedule all I see is:
6:30-10:30 - music / irc / tv
That's only 4 hours!
Believe me, that is NOT a lot of free time. Enjoy it while you can. Nevermind that a girlfriend (who might suck up all your time, but might be a fair tradeoff). Just wait till you do school/work... you'll be dying to have enough time to play a complete match in Tribes. You'll want a TiVo so you don't have to be innefficient about watching TV. You'll be pissed at the cats for wanting food NOW when you've just got someone in the rail sight.
Enjoy your freedom while you can!
--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is kinky.
Finally, Slashdot did something close to a human interest story!
I am a 15 year old in South Jersey who lives a life near to Clinton's. Waking up on my Christmas Vacation to read something about (what i would consider to be) a down to earth guy answering questions like he WAS some superstar just fills me with vitality, showing that my generation of hackers, coders, geeks, loosers, punks, and freaks are cared about and important out of their small social circles.
To all my akin freaks and geeks in the world, I would like to extend my thoughts and motivation to you.
However much of a looser you think you are, you are important. You may think you are the greatest thing in the world. Your not. But, you are better than your average teenager, with the ability to grasp your future in the present. Go out, get a job. Go over to your local ISP or webhosting company, work for free or cheap. Get buisness experience. Use the talents that you have been developing most of your lives. Be competitive, and do honest work.
However you may feel about yourself, there IS someone out there for you. Personally, I have been involved with Anneliese for nearly a year now, and she is the best thing that has ever happened to me (read my bio). Don't be discouraged. Ask that girl (or guy) out that you like. Don't let it go!.
To the Slashdot team:
Thank you for doing this. You have done a great service to the community giving this guy a chance to become a pseudo-celeb., getting maybe his 15 minutes of fame (Maybe, its just his first 15 seconds)
I hope you do this again.
I hope my rant has not been in vein, and that someone reads and understands what I am trying to say.
--Sean
On the other hand, you can usually tell that people with green hair/400 piercings/mohawk/whatever do have problems.
- intelligent syndrome.
There are several possibilities:
a) rejected by popular locus because of event(s), looks, lack of social graces -> depression -> dressing differently, acting like an asshole or drawn out and suicidal -> results in no friends because of deviant behavior -> start at 1
b) behavioral problem which means the person acts like a complete out of control idiot, possibly because of some trauma or hanging out with the "wrong" group (i.e., other people who act like idiots) -> fucking up in school -> tension because of behavior -> possible bad result
c) ignorance and teen angst -> exposure to stupid ideas -> world is all wrong syndrome (ugly, scary, the man is out to get you)
Computer "geeks" probably have more experience with depression and the i-dont-care-if-i-am-a-rejected-loser-because-i-am
Usually when people get older, they get over it. I did. That's why I cringe when I see people categorizing themselves as computer geeks. Often in this context it's because they feel rejected.
Obviously some people can't get over being a loser, if for example they are extremely ugly - but if they carried themselves differently (like developing other strengths) they would be in for some sort of improvement in human response in the form of friendship and cooperation.
That's not to say that I condone rejection. It'd just be easier if some people would realize that always being hostile or depressed is self destructive - though that's easy to say in hindsight.
But, I'm not that anti-social. I have friends. The people with yellow and green hair are my friends (you have to love punk rockers), the l33t hax0rs at school, the somewhat-suicidal ones, and my fellow geeks. I am happy. Isn't that all that matters? The pop culture people look happy, but they aren't. They need music and icons to tell them who to be.
I found this comment really insightful - it summarized my own thoughts own popularity/nerdiness/loserosity better than I have ever put them. I always thought that was true, that the pop people are less happy; they're too busy trying to conform and hold their "position" that they forget to just enjoy life. While they're insulting us "geeks" to try and make themselves look better, we're just ignoring them and having fun.
All in all great responses from a seemingly random (l)user! Thanks Clinton
Hmmm after reading this I am absolutely sure there is no such thing as "Average Slashdot User". We are a wonderfully diverse bunch, interesting read though.
"Science is about ego as much as it is about discovery and truth " - I said it, so sue me.
Many people don't WANT to "play the corporate game", because it's dirty
I understand generally where you're coming from but let me give it a slightly different spin:
That really irks me badly. Idiot lusers who want kids to conform to their definition of "normal" so use the magic bullet - put 'em on drugs.
I missed that horrible fate myself by a hair's breadth. When I was 14, my school forced my parents to take me to the doctor for evaluation (or I'd get expelled). Fortunately, our local doctor had a clue and told my mother, "Mrs. Smith, your son is a perfectly normal geek, and his school is all fscked up" but in more flowery language of course. The fact the sheeple did this to you, frankly, annoys the heck out of me. It annoyed the heck out of me when they tried to do it to me, too.
It's a good thing my doctor did have a clue. A misdiagnosis of ADD and the treatment it would involve would have barred me from my other great passion in life - flying - because the FAA would have a hell of a time issuing my medical if that was the case.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows