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Earth to Media: This kid is still in jail
When reporters were threatened with law enforcement pressure and jail during the Watergate and Pentagon Papers cases, whole forests were felled in the pre-digital age with stories, books, even movies about courageous reporters fighting for the First Amendment against government oppression. Not a single reporter was jailed in those cases, not even for an hour, even though many broke federal and other laws in gathering the information they reported.
You won't see any discussion of Dmitri Sklyarov on Washington talk shows, the evening news, or the cover of the weekly newsmagazines. But he is stuck in jail.
He was arrested by the FBI two weeks ago for writing and selling a program that allegedly violates the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, just after giving a lecture detailing alleged weaknesses in Adobe's electronic book software.
There is hardly a single serious lawyer or constitutional scholar who doesn't see the dangers of this twisted use of the DMCA. "The DMCA outlaws technologies designed to circumvent other technologies that protect copyrighted material," wrote Lawrence Lessig in the New York Times this week. "It is law protecting software code protecting copyright. The trouble, however, is that technologies that protect copyrighted material are never as subtle as the law of copyright. Copyright law permits fair use of copyrighted material; technologies that protect copyrighted material need not. Copyright law protects for a limited time; technologies have no such limit."
Thus, cautions Lessig, a law professor at Stanford, when the DMCA protects technology that in turns protects copyrighted material, it can -- as in the Sklyarov case -- offer protection that is much broader than copyright law was meant to be. It criminalizes what would be legal under existing copyright law, including certain kinds of criticism and speech and research. This law is a top-to-bottom creation of entertainment companies working with their hired lawyers and lobbyists to curb the flow of information online for profit. It was not enacted in the public interest, or even in the best interests of copyright. Lessig and others have pointed out that Sklyarov's software violated no one's copyright, even if it runs afoul of the DMCA.
In the Sklyarov case, there are several noxious consequences. His arrest chills criticism of software, and of new technologies and the powerful companies that create them. It also undermines security -- one of the very things the DMCA is supposed to protect. How can weaknesses and flaws in security and encryption programs be discovered if they can't be shared, discussed or explored?
Example: a staple feature of newspaper reporters in big cities is to go to local airports annually and test security procedures by carrying toy guns, knives or unloaded weapons into terminals. Although they could technically be charged under federal laws prohibiting such behavior, they are not. These reporters are never prosecuted. That's because courts have repeatedly ruled that the reporters are carrying out activities that are protected by the First Amendment -- they are stretching or even breaking regulations on behalf of the public welfare. Within limits (most public safety grounds) courts have protected this kind of activity. Just because Sklyarov is a hacker doesn't mean he's not acting as a journalist, or entitled to journalistic protections.
This is a corporate perversion of the original intent of copyright law, meant to protect authors for a limited time so that they would have some financial incentive to generate ideas, which then entered the public domain so that they could receive the widest possible distribution. It was never the intention of the authors of American copyright law to sell ideas and intellectual property to greedy corporations in perpetuity, especially at the expense of free speech and the ability to criticize powerful institutions.
In April, Princeton Professor Edward Felten, an encryption researcher, received a letter from record industry lawyers warning him that a paper he was about to present at a hacker conference -- the paper described the weaknesses of an encryption system -- could subject him to criminal actions under the DMCA. Felten withdrew the paper, and is now the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the DMCA on First Amendment grounds.
None of this helps Sklyarov, who remains in jail. Were he a reporter for the Washington Post or New York Times challenging claims of Microsoft or Adobe or Disney, you can only imagine the media furor, and the pressure being brought to bear on politicians and federal officials to get him out. It would certainly be loud enough to help ensure his release while lawyers get to slug out what ought clearly to be a civil, not a criminal, issue.
The failure to connect his case with their own rights and traditions is a colossal media blunder, short-sighted and self-destructive. If the DMCA stands, and people like Dmitri Sklyarov are tossed into jail because they criticized the code, claims or procedures of powerful corporations or institutions based on research these institutions believe should remain private and proprietary, then the entertainment lobby will have done the unthinkable. They will have permanently altered the First Amendment and the protection it has always accorded free, controversial and offensive speech. And the Net will become a very different kind of place, not only for coders and hackers but for any person who loves the unique freedom it has offered for nearly a generation.
I don't want to get arrested the next time I visit the U.S.A for something I said on the net.
First of all I'm posting this anonymously since I don't want to get trolled/bashed/etc in the future for what I have to say now.
Leave Jon Katz alone! He's on OUR side and constant bashing that he recieves from you people is just emberassing for our community and it just proves how childlish and antisocial we are.
He is not a bad jornalist. No journalist can write an op-ed that EVERYONE agrees with. Showing your opinion is the purpose of op-ed! If you disagree with Jon, try not to revert to 5th grade insults.
And where exactly are you? Alpha Centauri? I think that it's up to the editors which letters are published in most any newspaper (can't speak about all) but in the greater NYC area this is how it is. Maybe in lower populated regions this is so but whereas Brooklyn, NY (not Manhatten) has 2.3 million people (Idaho has about 1.4 million) and we only have three major newspapers I'd be surprised if there really is such a practice.
Say "hi" to the Sheriff & Aunt Mae for me...
Yes! That's the way a democratic society works!
You can shout on the streets about how evil the laws are but if you break these laws you're going to jail. And quite rightly so.
this makes the big media look bad.. because they're trying to keep the DMCA and news articles like this will point out the DMCA is overall bad for the consumer... keep the consumer ignorant and keep your power... it really isn't that outrageous of an idea that the press isn't covering this. I don't foresee someone high up at NBC saying "Quick! We're screwing the people with the DMCA! Run a news article to tell everyone about it and how they can regain control of things they own from us copyright hungry mongors!" Ain't gonna happen.
That simply isn't true....having worked for CBS, I know that there isn't some big table that all the CEOs sit around talking about what they don't want you to know. In reality, the viewers control what the media shows.....the neilson ratings dictate what content is shown on TV, what type of news is shown, etc. It seems so many people talk about how horrible sex on TV is....why is it that explicit shows get the highest ratings in their time slot? It's no wonder why news is so sensational these days.....unless the headlines are not about some multi-fatality shooting, or some horrible accident, people just don't seem to watch......you might claim this isn't true, but the RATINGS PROVE IT. If you want to change what is on TV, become a neilson family viewer.....the little box will sit there on your TV and record what stations and time you watch.....make a difference and don't watch sensational news.....keep the TV on PAX or something. My point is quite simple.....we are all to blame for the current status of the news industry.....the only invisable force controling what is shown on TV is the force that controls the remote control.....this force is YOU. my 2 cents -marshac
This is getting off topic, but I felt compelled to respond.
The labelling of records has everything to do with limiting speech. If you think about places like walmart that wont stock albums with warning labels, and the fact that many towns have ONLY walmart(or something similar) to buy records from, it doesn't take much to see how this is going to affect ones ability to choose what music they want.
First post flaming JonKatz! Right on sweet sister mary! you're the 1337est!
Not a flame, but a challenge, troll.
I'm touched. That's the first time in over ten years of internet use anyone has ever accused one of my posts of being a troll.
I was merely trying to illuminate the fact that, much like the first 20 posts on any story are "FP!!!!!!!", the first 20 posts on a JonKatz story are "Jeez I cant believe they let this guy write" or "JonKatz is an idiot because he missed this minor nuance"
What do YOU suggest we do about this? I suspect that had Jon offered any suggestions you would have been quick to point out that Jon was a pompous blowhard for daring to express an idea.
You sir are the troll here.
Unfortunately for Katz, the entire point is also invalid. The DMCA doesn't forbid him from researching, discussing, or publishing information about Adobe's encryption methods, thus the whole journalism angle is a red herring. The DMCA specifically addresses circumvention devices (e.g. software programs or hardware). Sklyarov is not in jail for his speech, he is in jail for selling copies of the software in the US.
Yeah, but you have to let MSNBC dump a cookie on your machine. Like hell I'm going to do that...
Until then it's the law! Break it and to jail you go.
Not to be all x-files, but isn't it entirely possible that the government wanted to arrest him for some crime that the public will never hear about, and that's why the government won't drop the case even though Adobe has tried to make that happen.
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I find it hard to believe that you are so surprised by this. This case covers several things that the media is scared to talk about these days.
First, he's a programmer -- the media hates to discuss anything even moderately technical, in the fear that it wil alienate their audience. Also, many TV news stories are just seconds in length, not nearly enough time to explain the case.
Secondly, there are serious issues where many media outlets are owned by or are organizations that have fought hard to have heavy control over their copyrighted material.
That's not to say the case hasn't been discussed at all. Robin Gross of the EFF went on NPR's Science Friday program to discuss the case (not sure if she really said the right things or not, though), and NPR had at least one previous story on the subject.
This case does remind me how little the media in this country cares about the rest of the world. Foreigners have been tried and executed in this country. Our media didn't say a thing, while the overseas media went nuts.
The US media is very strange. I recall when the Chandra Levy story first started rolling. The national news broadcasters were saying ``The story on everyone's lips,'' when in fact it was just what was being discussed on the local news in New York. Nobody else cared up until then.
The trick might be to get this case on the local news in New York
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No, that's not quite right either. What Dmitry did was sell a machine to allow you to drink your Coca Cola using a mechanism other than the provided hole in the top of the can. You still have to buy more if you want additional Coke. The fact that he can reproduce an eBook gives him no additional value since he already owns a legal copy.
He was arrested for this. Scary, eh?
BTW, trade secrets don't provide a very good analogy, because unless they're obtained illegally (through theft, etc.), once the trade secret is out, Coca Cola loses all rights to it.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
The American public has a limited attention span for complicated stuff. It was not until a Democratic congress started impeachment hearings that Nixon's misdeeds came to the average American's attention, despite all the special prosecutors and etc. which had previously been appointed. If it can't be turned into a 5 second sound bite, the American public isn't interested in it.
Blame the media all you like, but they just give the American public what they want, for the most part -- bland, non-threatening, unintellectual "news" that doesn't challenge the status quo and that can be summarized in a 5-second sound bite.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
There's no such thing as a low-risk stock. You ought to see my 401(k). It's a blood bath. Not a single stock fund offered by my 401(k) has made money this year -- not even the most conservative ones.
The thing about government bonds (which is what the SS fund is invested in) is that while they don't yield a whole lot, at least they don't lose money.
-E
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Moderators, read these comments before doing a moderation on them. Its not really a troll, simply a presentation of the story in a way that the average Joe on the street can understand and presentated in a light close to how the major Medias would really present it..
Please don't invoke Godwin's Law with an opening statement.
"We're thinking a modest fine and several years' probation..."
One can only hope.
You mean like NPR? Many people don't understand why I don't like NPR. Not only are they state sponsered, which is bad enough, but their bias is not the same as mine.
But regardless, if anybody out there has any *real* info on WHY the media isn't covering the case of Dmitry Skylarov or the DMCA, please inform us; I'm sure the /. community would like to know.
I see two reasons. First, the intricacies of copyright law, especially when combined with technology, are too subtle for sound-bites. I realize a statement like this is almost a cliche, but it's true. Too much valuable airtime/column inches would have to be wasted educating the reader on the DMCA, encryption, the rights of foreign nations etc. Easier to stick with warehouse fires and monster truck rallies.
Second (mentioned in another post already) is that most media outlets are affiliated with some organization that has an interest in the DMCA. Tough to get a critical article past your editor when s/he knows they'll get a call from the executive office about it later.
The stories of heroic journalists, well, that's different. It improves the image of journalism and the organizations that support them. And there's no need to report subtleties - just yell 'Cover-up!' at the top of your voice and everyone will be on your side.
Making these tools illegal won't stop people from violating copyright law.
Copyright law doesn't even stop most people from violating copyright law. Just because massive software piracy outfits are now violating TWO laws means that they'll stop? Give me a break.
The DMCA does not help a company defend it's copyrights at all. What it does is give them COPY CONTROL. With the simplest "encryption" algorithm you can now 100% put a stop to reverse engineering, totally eliminating your competitors if you happen to have created an industry standard protocol.
Think of it as patenting the most ridiculously easy algorithm without actually requiring a patent or an original idea. IIRC, Real Networks won a case based on the DMCA because they set 1 bit in their packet headers that means "ENCRYPTED", even though the rest of the packet is identitical to the unencrypted form.
It is meant to squelch competition. Be it from individuals in research, open source hackers, or other proprietary software giants. Retail piracy outfits (like the ones in China) will be affected in no way whatsoever by the DMCA. Everyone else will.
Plus, they have the best web site in the UK. Bar none.
Paranoia isn't an infectious condition, it's a way of life
"And this one's crime is a bit doubtful in nature"
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Here's a link to an article from Pravda.
The title says it all: "AMERICAN COMPUTER MEN STAND UP FOR A RUSSIAN PROGRAMMER DMITRY SKLYAROV".
What's interesting is that this story is more about our reaction to the story than about Dmitry himself.
Perhaps someone else can do some more digging for other stories.
The reason this isn't being reported as the travesty it truly is is that the public doesn't really understand copyright issues or the DMCA, and they don't really care either. The public would hear this story and think "So, a hacker(sic) got arrested for hacking a product. He was arrested under federal law, and he's now in jail. I hated it when my files were deleted by the virus, so these laws are a good thing."
There is a well-known book out called 'For God, Country, and Coca Cola' which published the formula years ago.
No one went to jail, the sun came up the next day, and the sky did not fall on our heads.
To compare something as far-fetched as the possible imprisonment of someone publishing a formula which is already out there to the real imprisonment of Dmitry is irresponsible.
How can you somehow justify the fact that he is locked away as some sort of reward for his behaviour by contructing this 'equivalent' scenario which is not even vaguely related?
It's down to #3! Make sure you vote the other top stories down while you're at it.
1) NPR had a great segment about this on all things considered. More objective and better detail than all of the major broadcasters put together.
2) NPR is only partially state sponsored. The rest of the money comes from corporate entities and you the listener :).
"I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense - I deserve it." Be's Jean-Louis Gass
1. welcome to the modern police state. You, Mr. Katz, bitch and whine about wanting all these different laws in your articles and display an adoration for the power of the State. Well, this is the State showing it's muscle, get used to it.
2. the media and the Feds consider computing geeks to be DANGEROUS. you should know this by now. Crypto, the Net, copyright law, they hate or fear us for it all, and this is just the beginning.
3. there is no 3. plz stop ruining slashdot for me, go write for Salon.
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
Someone surmised on the list that he's not even had contact with the Russian consulate, much less a decent bail hearing. So has anyone else tried to contact the Russian Embassy on his behalf to try to get an alternate press coverage (since the press seems to ignore geeks and keep it to geek humor, maybe a statement by the Russian Government will get the mainstream media's attention)?
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You know, you gotta get up real early if you want to get outta bed... (Groucho Marx)
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
they tried this w/other people held in jail for whatever reason. No one gives a shit about people in jail. If I saw an advertisement to let "John Smith Out of Prison" I would skip over it, annoyed that they made me turn another page in the paper.
I pay $1.00+ for a newspaper only to see someone who supposedly is a criminal? Get real.
Why doesn't there seem to be any information available on Dmitry's legal status. Does anyone know whether he has representation. There was a note sent to one of the lists indicating that an announcement would be made yesterday, but I've not seen anything. At the very least, he shouldn't be in jail, he should be free on bond. He's not a freaking ax-murderer! Since when do the Feds keep white collar suspects in detention for more than a day or two without an arraignment or bond hearing?
NULL
Uhh, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? He may be charged with breaking the law, but until a jury says otherwise, he's not to be punished until it is proven (beyond doubt) that he broke the law.
And, in Federal cases, I "thought" there had to be a grand jury indictment before there was an arrest?
NULL
This is a good and reasoned point, but I don't completely agree. The reason I wrote the column is that
But the media has a vested intererst in this case..if Sklyarov can be jailed for what he did on a copyright DMCA violation, then reporters can be jailed for obtaining confidential and copyrighted info via the Net..horrific implications for them...So my hope is they will get aroused out of self interest if nothing else and will focus pressure on his case..
jonkatz@slashdot.org
The public never gets interested in First Amendment cases, from Larry Flynt to Dmitri Sklyarov..even here on
public be any more enlightened? The point is to apply pressure via the media and other pressure points -- bad PR for Adobe, etc. -- so that the government lets this kid out of jail. I predict there will be some media attention and the charges will be dropped. But not because the public is aroused..All you have to do to see the state of First Amendment consciousness is read the Threads on
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Op ed pages are ghettoized corridors of opinion in tepid media where opinion is discouraged. I think the best course here is to show reporters and media institutions that their ox is being gored too..If Sklyarov can be jailed for using documents to criticize a powerful corporation, then so can reporters getting proprietary governmental and other information online, thus in violation of the D.M.C.A. Journalists don't understand that the DMCA threatens FIrst Amendment protections, and thus, their own freedom to operate, especially if the law goes unchallenged. Once they do understand that...and they will...they do read places like Slashdot, you'll hear a big bang. But op-ed pages apart from the NYTimes have little or no impact..When's the last time you read one?
jonkatz@slashdot.org
I think he is functioning exactly as a journalist functions..gathering information,using it to challenge a potent institution..The fact that he and his company may or may not have hoped to profit is irrelevant..The NYTimes sold the Pentagon Papers as a book also...
I think Sklyarov is entitled to the same protections as any reporter..and Ralph Nader, for that matter
jonkatz@slashdot.org
Pedrito makes a good point about big media, but this isn't just preaching to the choir. Journalists and the public don't have to understand the intracies of the DMCA to get that a gadfly has been jailed under copyright law for critiicizing a large corporation...Part of the problem here is that most journalists, as well as most members of the public, just click off when they hear another hacker has been thrown into jail..They figure he stole something and deserves it..But the First Amendment issues are what could get the companies even owned by AOL TIme Warner to perk up..Time and People also depend on those protections to do their normal work in reporting on government, even entertainment..If this arrest holds, their work will be curtailed..That is something even corporatist media would respond to..
I feel I learned a long time ago that you can expect very few people to really practice respect for the First Amendment..just look at the threads on
But I think this is a story that will affect big media, and a surprising number of them read
jonkatz@slashdot.org
The short of it, Jon, is that the story is not interesting to the general public or the press. The Chandra Levy case involves sex and scandal so it gets all the headlines. A Russian programmer broke the security on ebook technology? Most people don't know (and don't care) what an ebook is or what happens to a Russian programmer.
Journalists want their job to be interesting. Explaining the dry details of the DMCA is not interesting to most journalists, and when they are forced to do it they just get the details wrong.
Your own sig stands in ironic contrast to your point. You start first, mister Galt.
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I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
> Get Dmitri to go on a hunger strike or something
How noble of you. Maybe if he killed himself he might be even more useful as a martyr.
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I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Exhibit 1: on the control of perceptions by major media outlets.
> Didn't you people ever watch the x files.. people disappear all the time
QED
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I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
When was the last time you saw any press coverage of anything like this? CNN didnt give squat about Kevin Mitnick, and they could care less about Dimitri.
It's sad, but the best way is for everyone to write a letter to the editors column and ask why there is no coverage about Dimitri.
Letters to the editor if written without profanity, have to be published in the paper (at least around here they do)
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Sorry, I don't speak or read Russian, so I can't check.
But I was wondering if it is a big story in Russia. It certanly is a big story in the internet "underground".
Currently more people seem concerned with the "imminent collapse" (yawn) of the internet due to the code red worm than the release of Dimitry.
I would hope that this is a big story over there, if it is it increases the likelyhood that the story will eventually "leak" back to the west.
Well, at least we can hope.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
...but I've written stories about the Sklyarov and Felten cases. So has the New York Times. And NPR has covered it. Where exactly does Mr. Katz get his news?
Hiawatha Bray
Tech Reporter
Boston Globe
Would somebody please give Mr. Katz the link to the EFF Web site?m l and you'll find a whole mess of news stories on the Sklyarov affair...
Try a visit to http://www.eff.org/IP/DMCA/US_v_Sklyarov/media.ht
Hiawatha Bray
Tech Reporter
Boston Globe
Perhaps, but I think that is unlikely. Apply Occam's Razor to the situation; is it more likely that the big media companies are conspiring all the way down to the editorial and reporter level to prevent Joe Public from reading about the case in the morning paper, or is it more likely that Joe Reporter and Joe Editor in general do not know much about technology and law issues (not to mention does Joe Law-Column-Writer knows about the technology issues involved?) to be able to understand the nuances of the story?
Also, consider an editor's take on the issue; even if the editor does understand the technology and law nuances, does he think that his audience will understand well enough to make a story worthwhile or newsworthy?
The bottom line is that YOU, the audience, need to start writing more letters-to-the-editor and op-ed submissions to make the editors and reporters realize the importance of the issue instead of laying back and producing conspiracy theories as to why the issue has not appeared in mainstream media.
I can cite all sorts of foreign (to Americans) news, including civil wars in Central and South America, kidnappings of American citizens abroad, etc. that never even make it to the "World Summary" columns of your major newspapers because the editors do not seem to think that it is newsworthy. There are stories about it; you can go to the Voice of America and read a lot of the wire copy that the major media outlets certainly get as well, but the bottom line is it is deemed "un-newsworthy" for Joe Public.
In the russian guys case, is he a US citizen? If not he may not be thought of to have any rights in the US.
Persoanlly I think that this is bull crap, but there are large companies involved here and the goverment. Didn't you people ever watch the x files.. people disappear all the time. IN a few months it will be who was that guy?
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
IANAL but as far as I understand the alleged crime occurred in Russia. There it is actually illegal to prevent you from decrypting your purchased document so you can read it using your preferred method. The EULA as well as DMCA are not legal in Russia where he wrote the program.
Arresting Sklyarov in USA for something he did in Russia, just because it violates US laws, is like arresting an Englishman for driving on the left side of the road (in his home country). That would be required in Britain but obviously illegal in US. You may object to this by saying that Sklyarov discussed his alleged crime at a convention. So this englishman discusses the pros and cons of driving on the left side of the road at a convention about road safety. Should he be arrested? I don't think so!
If this is upheld I will nolonger be able to go to the US because I do not know every law in the US and there may be things that I do that are legal or even required where I live that are illegal in the US...
I am old enough but I am afraid I know math :-)
Here's a theory. Perhaps there is a connection to the fact that the media, especially broadcast media, is owned by the companies that paid for the DMCA? Do you really think Disney-owned ABC is going to come out against the DMCA? Do you really think AOL/Time/Warner, with membership in the RIAA the MPAA and the DVD-CCA, is going to come out against the DMCA? Maybe your local paper (which almost certainly is not locally owned) is slightly more likely to be critical of the DMCA. But more than likely they have their eye on eBook style protections for their own content.
Remember, the DMCA is a law written by and for media companies! A few articles have gotten out. The NYTimes for example has covered it. But the vast majority of the media has not. If you ever needed a clearer example of self-censorship, you probably won't find one.
Only ideological material that fits within the agenda of the given elite will get full play in the media
There's something valuable in between "full play" and complete censorship.
Lessig's piece got published in the New York Times. I don't think it "fits within the agenda" of the DMCA's supporters. I'm glad it got published. I'm glad it's getting read.
Maybe it's not as much range of opinion, or not as widely disseminated, as you'd like to see, or as I would. But I don't buy the claim that trying to make a case in the media is utterly futile.
Wow. Because men aren't capable of fidelity unless their wives beat them into it?
Damn, and I thought *I* had a low opinion of these schmucks.
Seriously, how on earth can their wives be faulted for the husbands behavior? Are these not grown men?
rark!
So if they left their husbands, their husbands would no longer be interested in 19 year old girls? I doubt it.
And from personal observation, I doubt that the threat of having a wife leave is enough to get a guy to stop going after other women.
I don't think it's adultery that is the problem here, anyway -- it's grown men in positions of power using those positions of power to go after half grown girls, and then lying about it.
rark!
It looks like we need the return of the blue ribbon campaign, or at least an equivalent that addresses the DMCA and such laws. I am sure that if everyone started pasting a ribbon their web-pages that the press would notice that something is going on. Now what colour for the ribbon?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
The guy is 26 years old, he is not a kid.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
As someone who works in a minor news outlet (the LA WEEKLY) owned by small media (Village Voice Media), I can attest to the fact that news people don't want to cover the Sklyarov case. But it's not a big conspiracy. It's because they don't get it. They can't understand it. It doesn't make any sense to them. And until the people who control technology learn to explain themselves and their work -- without condescending -- to the huddled masses, big stories of civil liberties being traded away for corporate property rights are going to be ignored by the major news organizations. Which is tragic.
I covered the protests this week (comes out Wednesday night online). My editor told me "don't write for the geek audience." So I didn't. But he put "geek" in the headline, nonetheless.
"One of the signs of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important." -Bertrand Ru
I would say no, because the Tipper Gore business was, in a sense, protecting us from ourselves (or so they'd have us believe). The PMRC was about letting parents know explicitely that albums contained whatever language was deemed offensive, and was, in a way, a strike back to the relatively new-at-the-time political correctness. It was about maintaining the appearance of values while not limiting the speech itself.
The DMCA isn't even vaguely in the same vein. It's not trying to help anyone be more aware parents, or anything like that. It's about money and power, not just power.
As a teen in the eighties, I always viewed one of the "explicit lyrics" stickers as a shopping tag, telling me what was likely to irritate adults around me, and went straight for the album. You couldn't get in trouble with the law for having an album with unacceptable words. That's certainly not the case with the DMCA and related laws, though. So while I think it's a decent connection, I don't think the DMCA laws are any sort of outgrowth of the PMRC efforts.
I still disagree. Free speech doesn't mean anyone has to listen nor does it refer to market availability. It means certain words won't get you thrown in jail. I'm not a huge fan of PMRC; parents should know what their kid listens to if for no other reason than to at least know what their kid likes.
However, you can't honestly argue that what Wal Mart chooses to sell or not sell equates to stifling of expression. Whether someone in a small Wal Mart-only town can conveniently purchase an album with explicit lyrics is irrelevant to free speech. The fact remains it is not illegal for them to do so, nor illegal for the artist to produce the work.
It could be argued that staying with an adulterer is tacit approval of adultery. I'm not making that argument, mind you, but that's one point of view.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
have an affair with Judge Marilyn Patel...
Tonight! - On Springer!
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
You just forgot the first rule, reporters want to make themselves look good. Calling a "Hacker" a reporter would put a negative light on all reporters, thus not making them look good.
I'm saying this from the viewpoint that most reporters probably had in the case, I personally believe 2600 was in the right and all.
They're not, though. Mr. Taco sold slashdot, for a seven digit sum.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
I live near DC. Funny thing is, we've been putting up with those stories for a couple of weeks longer than the rest of the country.
Funny thing: my wife noticed this morning that there actually is 'new' news on the intern. It seems something 'new' pops up every time the media attention starts to die down.
And while I'm OT... CourtTV is having a special tonight to answer the question: "Should politicians not date interns?" Well no f***ing s**t!! These guys are married. OF COURSE they shouldn't be dating. Of course, I blame the women *cough* Hillary *cough* who stand by these shmucks time and time and time again.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The ACLU: Where 90% of the Bill of Rights Matters
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
One murder and no rapes? Guess you get your statistics from the same place that college campuses get their statistics on rape and assaults.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The part of the DCMA being discussed here is the prohibition of the development and sale of tools to circumvent copyright protection. This is unique to the DCMA and therefore is new.
No, the prohibition is on tools to cicumvent access controls, not copyright protection.
"I WANNA KILL ME SOME BABIES! YEEHAH!"
There really isn't a good way to determine the locality of an e-mail, which means, people across the entire country get all upset about something (ie, support of same-sex marriages in Vermont, which was the issue as of recent) and they send out a million chain-emails urging people to spam the vermont legislators with a bunch of begging. Senators care about their voting public more than anything, because, as you stated, they're directly responsible for giving them work.
The majority of voters are old people. Old people hate technology and hey, guess what? They hate russians too. "Commie pinkos I tells ya leo, we should have nuked the fuckers when we had the chance."
E-mail can be replicated thousands of times or even (gasp) computer generated and randomized with absolutely no costs incurred whatsoever. At least with a letter, it takes some effort.
Personally I prefer to wallow in a pool of my own apathy thankyouverymuch.
Hmm, just called them and it's USD$92,000.00 ... Money that will most likely be much-better spent both on Dmitry's defense, and in helping the EFF battle the DMCA.
... looks like that's an expensive luxury. :-(
I remember that to make a public statement Terry Gilliam took out a full-page ad in Variety
I'm submitting the story and writing letters to the local papers here though.
o/~ Join us now and share the software
o/~ Join us now and share the software
You know that story a few days ago on /. about silicon valley using immigrant workers to keep salaries low? The story was actually circulated for publication 2 years ago, but no big paper would pick it up for fear of damaging themselves...
You mean the story, which told us that programmers don't use math? I'd say good for the editors for recognizing empty drivel for what it is...
Here is a small sampling to the dumbfounding results of this arrest.
1. Radicalization of America's brightest kids.
2. Wide spread protests against Dmitry's arrest and the DMCA
3. Criminalization of constitutional protect fair use rights.
4. Attack against public libraries.
5. Computer professionals and scientist boycott the US in a vast brain drain of intellectual capital.
6. More tax money wasted on copyright enforcement
7. Black hat backlash.
8. This is only the beginning!
Regards,
proclus
GNU-Darwin.org
There is open source news actually
check out indymedia.org. There has been a decent amount of coverage on Skylarov's case. Not so much recently because the place is still kind of going nuts over the G8 summit in genoa. Actually most of the story's lately have been about the mainstream media's lack of coverage of both those issues.... Hmmmm, I'm trying to decide if that's worthwhile or not.
now they use artificial flavors in lieu of the coca and cola extracts, hasn't changed much otherwise...
You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. I feel dirty responding to this. I don't know whether I just got trolled or not, but I'll bite.
1 oz. citrate caffeine
1 oz. vanilla
2½ oz. flavoring *
4 oz. fluid extract of coca
3 oz. citric acid
1 qt. lime juice
30 lbs. sugar
2½ gal. water
caramel
* orange, lemon, nutmeg, cinnamon, coriander, neroli oils, alcohol
Oh God, They're breaking down the door!!!!
You absofuckinglutely would not get thrown in jail for publishing a recipe. As long as it was you screwing around in your kitchen and you came up with how it was done there is no way in hell anyone could sue you, much less bring criminal charges against you.
If on the other hand you worked for coca-cola, were made privy to the recipe then published it you could face CIVIL charges. No one has ever gone to jail for anything like this ever, it's something out of a Kafka novel and I keep hearing these wet fart noises from bleating sheep saying "but he broke the law". Who gives a damn if he broke a law? It's a stupid law, and people have an obligation to break stupid laws. It's movement towards making the stupid law go away.
I just realized they left one important clause out of the DMCA. They should have made it illegal to criticize the DMCA in public.
Actually no you wouldn't. The coca cola secret formula was published in the book "Big Secrets: The Uncensored Truth About All Sorts of Stuff You Are Never Supposed to Know", by William Poundstone, along with the blend of 11 secret herbs & spices, and other 'secrets'.
If you discover then publish Coca Cola's secret formula, then I bet you'd be in jail or at least sued for an insane amount of money.
IANAL, but:
1) The formula for Coke is not copyrighted. It is secret. Copyright means disclosure and Coke is unwilling to disclose.
2) Secret != government classified. Just because Coke has a secret document doesn't mean it is criminal to possess or publish the document. The methods by which one obtains a document could be criminal, however.
3) The part of the DCMA being discussed here is the prohibition of the development and sale of tools to circumvent copyright protection. This is unique to the DCMA and therefore is new.
Wow did the BBC actually kill someone? Cool can you provide a link to where the BBC actually used a gun to threaten or kill someone that would be an interesting read.
BTW both the PBS and the NPR get federal funding.
War is necrophilia.
The US government needs a lesson in what is and isn't good practice. Innovation in the US will over time become crippled by the arcane and Ultra-Conservative DMCA.
It's no secret that Republicans are so right-wing it's almost feasible to think of them as neo-Nazis, but what is surprising that such a HUGE chunk of US society with all it's false morals decided to vote in a president whose only allegiance is to himself, and to the big business interests that will no doubt fund his campaign for a second term in office.
What should be our course of action? Boycott US trade shows to begin with. After all in the US innovation means a prison sentence. Any civilised country would have sent Skylarov home by now. Don't bother contacting US congressmen, contact US businessmen, and let them know that you are not going to buy their products while Skylarov is imprisoned and the DMCA remains in place.
Remember Bush listens to big business. Big business is his key to a well-funded election campaign. Make sure that these business interests know it's not in their interest to back these medieval practices and Bush will follow like the simple-minded sheep he is.
Bzzzzzt..."AAAAaaaaarrrgh!!!" Thud.
If that is your position, then you should advocate that Adobe et al advance it through the only honest approach -- an amendment to the U. S. Constitution which would make such a "different kind of law" (copyright protection decoupled from the public interest and having no time limit) legal.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Er, the same way you protect the economic value of small portable objects in a world of nimble fingers -- 1)take reasonable security precautions and 2)prosecute the specific individuals who are caught stealing (not those who might steal, not those who possess the ability to steal, nor even those who teach the fine art of prestidigitation... those who do steal).
This ain't quantum physics, folks.
/.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
In order for the media to cover something it has to reach a state of 'newsworthyness'. The people who give a damn about Skylarov come here to read about his plight and bitch about what's happening to him. That's not newsworthy.
Unless enough people catch the attention of a news network, Skylarov remains just another "computer criminal" whose only relevance to John Q. Public is if he writes viruses that tell people "I love you" or offer naked pictures of Britney Spears.
Anyone remember the "Free Kevin" web campaign? That got some news.
What first amendment right? He's Russian.
Is there anything in the first amendment that includes citizens of Non-US countries?
Also what about the right to a fair and timely trial? If this makes its way to a trial by jury, who's to say that it will happen in an even slightly reasonable amount of time.
What rights are available to Dmitri as a guest of the US penal system?
Two Words: Devil's Advocate.
:P
As a foreigner, is he granted the rights an American expects to take for granted. If he is not, how long can he be held without being found guilty of a crime.
As for being lucky about being arrested over here, Russia doesn't have a DMCA. So why would they arrest him?
I emailed the Canadian PM last night, and got mail back from his offices already that the letter has been forwarded to Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley...
Sure, we're not Americans, but as a trade partner we do have some influence. (trolls and flamebait will be ignored).
The fact that my letter was even read by someone and considered worthy of passing on is a small victory in itself. Someone else is now aware of Dmitri.
Actually I think the taste is largely from the phosphoric acid. Yum!!
Yes I would - If there was a series of speakers, heck - even one speaker (hell, I would volunteer to speak!) - I would be willing to attend.
If such a thing ever occurs, I propose that we do an actual march/walk to the site where the rally would be held - say over the course of 10-20 miles. Hold the rally for a couple of days - camp out if need be.
I am tired of all this shit - I want my rights - all of them!
What the hell, people? Why aren't more people replying to this comment? Do any of you really care? WTF??!!
I have written my congressmen about this issue - I will be participating in the Saturday meet in Phoenix (missed last saturday, and can't get off work for today's meet - but I will be there this weekend!).
What does it take?
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Note for those without a sense of humor (and disclaimer to prevent the FBI from storming my house): This is a joke
The fact that you thought about your statement and added this disclaimer for the FBI is reason for pause. Why should we feel like we need to apologize for exercising our constitutional rights?
--Humpty Dumpty was pushed!
Sorry Katz. A germane defense of the hacker, but your analogies are falling short in modern times.
When you mention the Post and the NY Times in the Vietnam and Watergate eras, it's a false analogy. Today, so many of the large news agencies are owned by corporations with huge interests in government contracts (e.g., NBC and General Electric). The military-industrial complex has become the military-industrial-media complex.
Also, you mention imagining the Washington Post not reporting on Microsoft. Well, recently they have due to the anti-trust case. But they are in legal agreements with MSNBC (peruse the MSNBC site to see how many articles are from Newsweek and the Washington Post (Newsweek is owned by the Post)).
My point? The press ain't what it used to be. The best example: go register an account for Netscape mail then visit the CNN.com site. Know what you'll see at the top of the screen?
Welcome, username
The times, they are a changing.
----------------------------------
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
...are being reported in The Register
yesterday's Times op-ed by Lessig?
Katz quoted from it twice (even if he only acknowledged it once).
I've only seen the on-line version, so I couldn't say how prominent it was in print, but even the biggest title on the op-ed page doesn't draw nearly as much attention as the smallest one on the front page. (Who reads op-ed anyways?)
Even in a paper as prominent as the New York Times, op-ed isn't going to draw public support.
-Golden Eagle
The media is only as liberal as the conservatives who control it
Isnt this good enough for the big media?
My UID is prime is yours?
Its good enough, but as I have said before, this time the media is on the other side
People seem to forget that the media companies, either directly, or via their parent/sister/subsidiary companies are some of the biggest generators of 'original content'.
Most newspapers belong to publishing houses, most tv/radio station belong to or own studios and music labels.
Do you still think that they would come out guns blazing in support of someone challenging the CMDA??
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
WRONG This analogy is bad....
All he did was sell a machine that allows you to pour any cola you might lay your hands on, and it would then print out a recipe, allowing you to make more of the said cola in your own home, and never have to buy more from the original manufacturer.
In this case however, the manufacturer would have made you swear never to attempt to reproduce their cola. In fact, you also promised not to share your bottle of cola with anybody else. One man, one cola bottle!
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
somebody mod this guy up.
With this Code Red story all over the media, and everyone with a calculator going on about the BIG Virus that will strike at midnight, this would be a most opportune time to show just how dumb the DMCA is.
Scare the shit out of congress, and they will repeal it. Tell them that the current law means that virus writers are protected by law from having their software reverse engineered??
I can just see the headline:
Controversial law prevents companies stopping computer viruses!
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
I read a disheartening story the other day in the NY Times Magazine about American John Tobin who is being (wrongly) held as a spy in Russia. It is weird because he has been held for months and I have heard nothing about him. In addition to the Dmitry case, the media has not covered this story. I guess they are too busy following Gary Condit around. The trial of John Tobin was very well covered in Russia where it had OJ Simpson-like popularity.
As a solution to both problems, I propose that the US and Russia have a good, old fashioned, prisoner exchange. Current coverage is also available from the NY Times.
If you don't beleive me get it straight from the horses mouth!
Why not just make the code one of those dormant virii that don't activate until you send it some certain keyphrase or command or other such thing. Then it would be impossible for them to prove that it was malicious if they got ahold of the binary without taking your program apart (which would be protected by the DMCA). And I don't think they could make you send the keyphrase or command to virus. If they tried, just say "I forgot the command..."
I commend your action; the EFF will get a cut of my rebate as well. However, I should point out that there is no "social security fund". Social security benefits are paid out of payroll taxes, and excess payroll taxes are spent on general expenditures; with the baby boomers nearing retirement this pyramid scheme is about to collapse. It is extremely important (especially for those in the average Slashdot demographic) that we move from a pay-as-you-go system to a system where you can accumulate actual assets instead of promises from the government to tax the hell out of future generations.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Unfortunately, though, it seems that open source news has about as much "market share" (I don't know if there's a more approriate word that would apply to the media -- "viewership", maybe?) as most open source operating systems and software (i.e., not much).
-- Pauley, probably preaching to the proverbial choir.
Adobe has net martyr e-booked by the Feds
Hackers plan to bite back as FBI detains Russian
It appears some newspapers can write good articles. If yours doesn't mention it, write to their editor.
By being famous ... not much of a compensation, but far superior to the compensation of most of the wrongly imprisoned.
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
While they do occasionally run stories that do not interest the public, we can't always expect them to do that. I'm sure they do not care about chandra levy either (although they have a sick fascination with the kennedys).
Unfortunately, even though I hate protests, I think they are the way to go. Get Dmitri to go on a hunger strike or something. I hate to say this, but it's true ... this guy getting arrested is *exactly* the kind of ammunition we need to fight the DMCA.
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
Hey, I never said anything about conspiricy. I agree with you .. I just dont think a newspaper will see it as newsworthy, nor help their cause (or their parents) in any fashion.
.. lets say .. hrm, 50. The idea that the 40 or so editors (assuming one editor for each paper, although its more likely that papers owned by the same company go with the same big stories) would have to be 'on side' is not really a big number. In fact, they probably think what you're thinking when they are dealing with pressure from above on plugging certain stories and not running with others. So I don't think you have to be a huge conspiricy theorist to aknowledge that public awareness for 80% of people probably consists of a relatively small number of publications, and consequently a relatively small number of editors who'd rather fly with the voice from above than risk job security and shake the boat.
I read this story on page 20 of my local daily. I don't believe anyone who says their local newspaper didn't mention it. But remember, if it's on page 20, public awareness is 1% of what it would be if it was first page. It never reaches a critical mass public awareness. And who decides first page? Editor. And how many large circulation papers are there in the States? Let's say
If newspapers found out tommorow that crack-cocaine was the cure for cancer, do you really believe that'd be the story you'd see in the paper, considering the government spends 20 billion dollars are a year trying to keep it off the streets?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Puuleeeease. I'm talking about the news here, not what airs during prime time on television. The news will always be shown .. I wasn't saying big brother decides what shows to watch, I was saying what big brother decides what headline to run. And yes, sometimes that headline will be chosen because people eat it up (Elian Gonzalez), but sometimes a headline is run (or isn't, Dmitry) for business purposes. And when business clashes with ethics, thats when you get a 'conspiricy'. Conspiricy is just a dirty word for it .. ironically, the rules of democracy and capitalism encourage 'conspiricies'. Ie, lies or misinformation spread from company (big media) to consumer (you). Don't tell me because you worked at CBS you can confirm there is no big conspiricy ... history is rife with people working for evil, without even being aware of it.
"Old man yells at systemd"
> Really, yours is the most subtly deceptive reasoning because it infers that a "conspiracy" is required to silence dissident voices. In actuality, the people who write for these publications are only there because they have kissed the right asses. If they were any threat to write something rational or honest they would have been sniffed out long ago and had their access to power stripped from them.
:)
Right on, brother! I only wish more people understood that much of the unacceptable pain, persecution, and general discontent people experience in their lifetimes are the result not of evil-by-choice organizations, but rather evil-by-choice people leading ignorant/obendient-by-choice people. I could not have written it better myself. Give the man a prize!
Props to the Noam Chomsky archive there.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Incidentally, I'm a programmer who works on C/C++/CORBA enterprise scale distributed apps, and I'd say I never need to use more than grade 10 math. Actually, my friend, who worked for a company that developed complex financial economics simulation software never had to use math; all math was provided by .. guess what .. mathematicians!
.. it's already there!
Yes, there are obviously some math skills required for programming, but in many many cases (GUI programming, scripting, distributed computing, etc), the math is very simple (object oriented methodology is far more likely to be important coming into a programming job than having to engage in above-high-school level math.) Thus, the argument employers were using, blaming the lack of talent on a lack of math skills seen in domestic potential hires, is clearly false.
Anyhow, if you really felt you could discredit a huge report based on one snarky line, you're a part of the group that doesn't need the system to pull the wool over its eyes
"Old man yells at systemd"
Wondering why the big media outlets havn't advertised the scandal is like wondering why the Army doesn't hand out "War Kills People" brochures. The big media outlets are controled by the content providers, and the content providers want this kid nailed to the wall. It's as simple as that. Sad, wrong, but simple.
"Old man yells at systemd"
Your news comes from big media content providers (think Time Warner AOL). Big media content providers want Dmitry nailed to a wall. You know that story a few days ago on /. about silicon valley using immigrant workers to keep salaries low? The story was actually circulated for publication 2 years ago, but no big paper would pick it up for fear of damaging themselves (they probably did it), and damaging the best story they had in years (the .com boom). News gets censored by media outlets ALL THE TIME. What's frightening is that people still think that news providers only have a slight 'political bias'. Untrue. They practice outright public awareness management. It's sad how controlled everyone's level of awareness is. Visit www.projectcensored.org to see what I'm talking about.
/., cnet), while the rest of the world won't know, so won't care.
At any rate, to answer your original question, anyone in the software biz right now (save for Adobe), and publishing industry want him in jail. The types they want to know about his arrest (he's an example to be made of) will know it from reading the trade sites (like
"Old man yells at systemd"
Perhaps the best way to explain the DMCA to people who are unfamiliar with it is by comparison to historical abuses that are firmly accepted as wrong:
l if fe.htm
b ib le.htm
In 1377, John Wycliffe was brought before the Roman Catholic Church because he had the audacity to declare that the common man had the right to read the bible, which he had translated from the Church's sanctioned latin into English. The position of the Church on common vernacular translation was known from the time of the Spanish inquisition. Spanish bible translators were often beaten, tortured, and burned alive. Spanish clergyman Alfonso de Castro gave the opinion of Church in these words: "the translation of the scriptures into the vernacular tongues, with the reading of them by the vulgar, is the true fountain of all heresies." Wycliffe was lucky to merely be arrested and excommunicated. The church did eventually dig him up and burn his bones, however.
In 2001, cryptography and computer code have replaced latin, while eBooks take the role of the Bible. The "Copyright Industry" and the government agencies like the FBI that march to their drum have replaced the pre-reform Catholic Church as the organization that uses secret languages to control the thoughts of their "audience". After John Wycliffe asserted the right of the people to read, this principle became a central tenent of all church reformers and was strong in the protestant groups that eventually formed the United States of America.
Today, as then, the right of the people to access the thoughts contained in the media they obtain legally, without regard to "technological protection measures", such as latin, object code, cryptography or obfuscation, is inherent in the First Amendment and the fundamental human rights which transcend government.
Conversely, the supposed right to control access to copyrighted works against circumvention, asserted by the DMCA is a false right, and it must be facially rejected because it conflicts inescapably with the right to read. This "right" is completely distinct from the one it was supposedly created to protect, which is the right of authors to authorize the first sale of their works.
Citations:
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/articles/johnwyc
http://www.whidbey.net/~dcloud/articles/spanish
Has anyone seen any foreign media coverage of this issue?
I'm interested in the parallels here between Dymitri and the Chinese/American scientists that were recently "tried and/or deported" to throw the U.S. a bone in regards to Olympic Venue selection.
Is there anyone out there (read Russian) that is concerend that this poor guy is getting t-boned by a bad US law? Is there any force that can be brought to bear to "put the shoe on the other foot"?
How do we know that PGP works? How do we know that SSL protects our online transactions? Does SSH actually keep people from sniffing remote root logins?
Because they are open standards that have been independently reviewed and confirmed. Because people took the time to check the validity of the claims that were made.
I we were to blindly believe that which corporations shovel out and call the truth, we would have to believe that it's safe to drive 65 miles an hour with your children on those Firestone tires.
People like Skylarov are exposing these faults in commercially available software and are doing the public a great service.
Unfortunately, he sold his product, which makes companies mad, as they can't abide by someone profiting from their mistakes.
But the truth of it is that he didn't even have to sell the product to be in violation. All he had to do was talk about it to the public, explain how it could be done. And the DMCA is the boot that Adobe stepped on his crank with.
Here's a question:
If the courts post documentation detailing Dimitri's software, are they not violating his DMCA-protected rights?
Let's try to think of ways to use this flawed process against itself.
The major news outlets are all owned by the big media companies. CNN is time/warner, ABC is disney, yada yada yada. The big media companies all have their fingers in the news outlets in one way or another and they'll gladly sacrifice their news divisions freedom a little if they can force you to shell over an extra $20.00 to listen to what they're calling music these days.
That's why most of the useful news I get these days comes from Slashdot and not CNN.
That same declaration also says things like:
Article 22.
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.
Article 26.
(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.
Sounds like more of a socialist manifesto than a charter of Rights.
but in using your example its not the fact that he was selling xeroxed copies of a stephen king book that got him arested. Its because he designed and built a xerox machine.
If its stupid but it works, its not stupid.
Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
Notice this last paragraph? Even with the most warped interpretation of the Constitution I have no idea how "limited time" could be interpreted as perpetual. This is the type of shit that gets through because most people in this country do not pay any attention to what happens in politics. One day we will wake up and realize we have no rights left... --Jon
I should point out that "Republic" comes from the Latin, "Res publica," which means, literally, "thing of the people."
+++ATH0
You know... Jon Katz can be so convincing sometimes. I'm glad that I also read the user comments so that I get myself back to reality.
--
--
"What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
But that is hardly the point. There is due process. He is presumed innocent UNTIL THE STATE PROVES HE IS GUILTY.
Apparently the education system you attended failed to make that point clear to you in civics class.
It happens every day, people commit crimes, they go to jail.
That statement proves my point.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
I wasn't speaking about his guilt or innocence. You apparently got so caught up in being happy about this guy's death that you missed the point: lack of due process.
It is a fact that innocent people have been released from death row in the US. You should pray that due process allows you, a non-US citizen, the right of due process.
Otherwise you could end up dead for something you didn't do.
But that could be okay with you, right?
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Your glee may be short lived. There is the tiny consideration of double jeapordy involved here. Since Einhorn has been tried and convicted by a court in US jurisdiction, he may, because of PA's fuckup, get a "get out of jail free" card on appeal.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The software in question was written in Russia.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Considering the fact that just about EVERYTHING is now illegal in the US (except to own a gun), you could lose a large portion of your life, if not the whole thing, on a poorly defended case.
Still want to trade the odds?
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
They said you could not hold someone without charge. That is a fundemental right of due process.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
That is a position that can be argued was settled in 1865 with the defeat of the Confederacy.
Each of the states claim sovereignty above the federal government to some extent. They are in fact quasi-coequals with the ratification of the 11th Amendment.
The assertion that Texas could go its own way in all aspects of governance is hypothetical, but the reality is more important. Texas does not have its own independent military or foreign service, for instance. Texas may think they are indepenent of the will of the Federal Republic, but they are mistaken.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
None. You have difficulty with basic US civics.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
The State of Texas executed a foreign national without giving him right to meet with his embassy. This is a right guaranteed to foreign nationals by treaty. The fact that someone could be held without access to their national ambassadorial staff is pitiful enough. The fact that they can be held without due process guaranteed under the Constitution is scandalous.
But the public just doesn't care....
It is fucking depressing.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
1) He has the right to meet with representatives of the Russian Embassy. That has not happened. This is a right guaranteed by treaty.
2) It doesn't matter whether he is a US citizen or not, he has a right to due process.
Look at the hell the U.S. had to go through to get a convicted murderer(Ira Einhorn) extradited from France.
Not exactly apples to apples comparison, is it?
But the Einhorn case could have been sped up if it hadn't been for the idiots in Pennsylvania trying him in absentia. That was a screw up on their part, not France's.
Do you see the difference?
Why should the U.S. afford a foreign national the opportunity to escape?
Why have bail at all then? Anyone could flee from the jurisdiction they are indicted in, can't they? Take his passport.
Sorry, but the constitution just doesn't come into play in this instance.
Why, just because you've said so?
The Supreme Court has said otherwise. They still gave Cuban's the right to due process (it took forever, but they got their day in court) when Castro emptied his jails and sent the felons north. The Supreme Court just told the Immigration Service that they cannot hold foreign nationals without charging them - even when they have served their sentences.
Sounds like due process to me (derived, my dear colleage, from the Constitution).
Foreign nationals should behave themselves in any country they visit.
That is a given, isn't it?
Are you saying that we shouldn't assume he is innocent until proven guilty?
Just because the the U.S. appears to be more liberal with accused criminals than many other countries does not mean that the same liberal treatment can or should be extended to a foreign national.
Right; let's just jettison the Constitution when it becomes a problem.
I hope you're not running for an elected office.
Non citizens should be made fully aware that they neither deserve nor get the same priviledges as a citizen.
And on that point, as with so many others in this thread, you are just dead wrong.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
Coke's formula is a trade secret. Not patented or copyrighted or anything. And violating copyright is not a jailable offense.
And the situation was NOT illegal - this man was NOT subject to the american laws he's accused of breaking, our laws end at our borders.
Is this the original formula maybe?
I think they stopped using cocaine a looonnngggg time ago.
So I wonder if they're upset about the efforts to eradicate coca production?
There's a space in the URL that prevented it from working. Take it out and it works. The story is here.
-- Insert witty one-liner here. --
General media only reports things they think the general public would care about. General public (not you, not the tech dorks who think everything that applies to them is more important than anything else) could care less about this kid. Therefore general media reports things that people actually give a damn about.
Idiot.
Yeah, I'll buy a permit from the city to put up a fence on MY property. Get a fucking life.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
Generic Soda, Generic Drugs, Generic Perfume.
Perfume for sure, but I'm quite sure they've all lost that case already.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
...let's protest the lack of media coverage!
Everyone get down to your local news affiliate and start protesting the lack of attention.
If enough people do that...the story of the media being protesting the lack of news will itself become news...and thus draw attention to the core issue about which we are protesting a lack of news!
I'm serious! If we tell reporters they are being negligent in hiding the truth that's a challenge I doubt they could resist. As soon as one news organization posts a story, they will all have to me-too or look like toadies to corporate interestes (which they are but they hate it being shown true).
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
The BBC have a report; go to news and search for Skylarov which gives:d _1 454000/1454489.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsi
Matyas
Instead of writing to your congressman / senator, why doesn't someone try running for that office?
/. populous thinks. Can we send one of our own to the seat of power where real change can be effected?
We do a lot of whining and there are a lot of calls for letters to be written but is anyone truly making the sacrafice of public office?
Why isn't there a well spoken geek that could run for either congressman / senator and address these issues as the voice of our demographic?
We could have a geek get out the vote.
I would like to hear what the
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
I believe that there is a common set of ideas that "we" support.
These include but are not limited to:
technology
Note that I'm not including much else as this is a very diverse group.
I am of the opinion that a representative should listen to their district or in this case, group (geeks) and properly provide them with a voice.
This person should be one that is charismatic enough to sway opinion yet technical enough to understand issues important to their represented base.
It is not for me to decide what "we" believe, just as it is not up to the representative. It is the represented's responsibility to inform their representative what they believe.
This is much different than the deaf ear our pleas fall on now.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
I am responding because this is something I feel quite strongly about.
You are quite correct that most politicians do have a lot of personality and charisma. I have none of this, but there are geeks who do. We find them and call them to the plate. If they run, good, if not, we find someone else.
Political Science and Law are fine backgrounds, but it is not a requirement to run. To risk overgeneralization, geeks like to identify and solve problems and learn new things.
To win office it takes money in order to swing popular opinion. Geeks as a general rule tend to be middle class or above (read as disposable income) and tend to devote themselves to some form of evangelism (OS wars, editor wars, desktop wars, etc.).
Lastly, yes geeks and intelligent people in general are a minority. History shows that minority groups can dramatically influence elections if they vote in significant numbers.
I believe this can be done. Will it be easy. No but it is not impossible.
A geek in a real office will give these issues a place they can be heard and fairly weighed. It will require support from the community as well as the right candidate.
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." Sun Tzu
Sounds like more of a socialist manifesto than a charter of Rights.
As always, it's easy to dismiss the positive human rights when you don't have them.
______________
______________
OTTERS RULE.
lol! That was good. Excellent observation. :-)
-----
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception."
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
"We" believe in:
Basic rights and freedoms as spelled out in the constitution, fairness to everyone's interests (individuals, organizations and corporations), and many others I could think of were I inclined to actually spend time to spell them out for you(and which you could come up with on your own if you actually gave it a little thought).
-----
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception."
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Issues are never as complicated as people make them out to be. Why do you think it's so involved? An unconstitutional law(probably written with somewhat good intents) has enabled corporations to persecute legitimate activities(Felten's research) done in the public interest, and to persecute foreigners who did not even break this law while in the US(DeCSS case, Skylarov). This law extends government influence further than reasonably permitted. What's so complicated about that?
-----
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception."
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
Um. Last I checked, Dmitri Sklyarov wasn't a citizen of the United States, unless he managed to marry Mama Louise in the Big House...
Zaphod B
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
Are you sure he's been in jail for two weeks? I'm a little confused on that point.
To paraphrase Scott Adams, you've had a BLINDING FLASH OF THE OBVIOUS!
I don't know how to tell you this... but maybe if I shout way up into your ivory tower...the popular media aren't going to go running to Vegas and San Jose because this isn't the kind of news story that Joe AOL cares about.
Now quit ranting, strap your soapbox to your back, and go do something about it instead of ranting impotently. You're preaching to the choir here.
Zaphod B
Zaphod B
When duplication is outlawed, only outlaws will have
How did a troll like this get modded up to 5?
OK, I wrote 'ole Dennis. If you did too, sound off below!!!
I agree media coverage of the Sklyarov arrest has been a (non-existant) travesty. I have an idea, bear with me for a paragraph here. I noticed over the past few days that a USA Today reporter named Dennis Cauchon has written two stories on First Amendment arrests (although they were buried on the inside pages) here and here. To quote his story, "At the Justice Department's request, a federal judge jailed freelance writer Vanessa Leggett on July 20 on contempt of court charges after she refused to turn over notes, tape recordings and other material she collected while researching a book on the slaying of Doris Angleton in 1997. Angleton was the wife of Robert Angleton, a millionaire ex-bookie who was acquitted in 1998 of hiring his brother to commit the murder."
Seems to me 'ole Dennis might be interested in the current party going on in Dimitri's Las Vegas cell, if only he knew about it. And USA Today might print what 'ole Dennis dug up on the story. So I'm gonna email 'ole Dennis at dcauchon@usatoday.com and give him an earful of URLs. Why don't ya'll email 'ole Dennis, too, and show him what the Slashdot Effect is all about?
Oh please that's a bunch of FUD.
Again, I say: Show me evidence to the contrary, or show me something that discounts my evidence. You say it's a bunch of FUD, but that's it. If you want to argue with someone, you need to learn to back up your points. You clearly haven't learned that.
Why isn't there a well spoken geek that could run for either congressman / senator and address these issues as the voice of our demographic?
/. populous thinks. Can we send one of our own to the seat of power where real change can be effected?
We could have a geek get out the vote.
I would like to hear what the
I think there are several reasons for this, and I'm sure most people will agree with me on at least some of these.
1: Public officials tend to have an outgoing personality and a lot of charisma. Most geeks, unfortunately (and this inclues me), don't.
2: Most public officials have political science or law backgrounds. Few geeks do.
I'd love to see a geek in office, and hey, I'm not a fan of Dubya, but he's about as close as we have come. He's a big computer game fan. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but I don't care for him either way.
I don't think it'll be long before a geek does take office, but it will be only one. Remember, as much as we like to think to the contrary, WE ARE THE MINORITY. The general public is stupid. I don't mean that as an insult, but it's just the fact. If you're on this web site, it's unlikely you're part of the "majority" in a lot of ways, and it's unlikely that the "majority" will relate to you.
Interesting, my first experience with, really being part of the minority was when I moved to Mexico. It gives you a great perspective of what blacks and other minorities go through when you move to a country like that. All of a sudden, you're the minority, and people look down on you because of it. I think everyone should have to experience it. It could go a long way to fixing race problems in this country. Sorry, I'm digressing about 180 degrees from the topic, aren't I? Oh well, I hate hitting the backspace key. Live with it.
actually it's very rare that someone gets fucked in the ass in prison. Well except for the gay dudes who like it and do it by choice. Most prisoners are very homophobic and would never do it. Most likely Dmitri is playing cards, lifting weights, or watching cable tv right now...
Really? Do you have experience in this area? I do. My company does a lot of work with prisons, and I guarantee that this does actually happen a great deal. I also have a family member who has a pretty checkered past and has done quite a few years in prison, and though he won't speak about it directly, he made it pretty clear that that stuff still happens. So, I'd like to see your evidence to support your case.
I have evidence. Check here and here if you want a lot of references. Or, try this on Google.
Then tell me that this is a thing of the past.
Why don't people here do what people have been doing for years. Something that, in the information age, is easier than ever. Write your representatives. Your congressman, your senators. They all have web sites and e-mail. E-mail them and tell them what you think about the arrest. Tell them what you think of the DMCA. That's how you influence the laws they make.
Despite what many people think, your representatives aren't just there to serve the interests of lobbyists, though they make a lot of progress because they're persistant. They WANT to get re-elected, and you're the ones that elect them. They know that, and if enough people complain, they're going to do what you want because if enough of us complain, they're going to know their job is in jeapordy.
Remember, we live in a Republic (not a Democracy as everyone is fond of saying, read about the difference). You representatives are elected by YOU. That means that YOU can tell them they suck and if they don't straighten up and fly right, you won't vote for them the next time they're up for re-election.
Just my personal opinion, but I've written my representatives. I've e-mailed the president. They know my view. If enough people do the same, I guarantee you that this stuff, while not responded to personally, goes into a statistics sheet that tells them, at the end of the day, where their supporters stand.
I don't say this unknowing. I have an uncle who was a U.S. senator up untila couple of years ago, and e-mail was used heavily to gauge the opinions of the people in his office, and I'm pretty sure that he was the rule, not the exception. They all have software that makes this stuff (e-mailed opinions) pretty easy to quantify without having to read each and every e-mail in detail.
This is just the same thing, with everyone a few years older.
You'd think his skin wasn't *white* !!!!
/. crowd as the american public and one of Katz's movie reviews as the story about this guy.
You'd think his last name was Peltier!!!
You'd think his last name was _____!!! (umm, that DJ in philly..oh i forgot..)
Seriously...the american public doesn't give a shit
Julia Roberts back with Lyle lovett! now that is news the american public wants!!!
Imagine the
see...
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
OK, I wish Sklyarov got more press. But I'm reluctant to blame the alleged biases of the media. I'm afraid the story is actually not as newsworthy as geeks think it is. In the time that Sklyarov has been in jail, how many people were arrested in America? Does anyone know or care? Do you care about Joe Shmoe who was arrested for falsifying meat inspection forms in North Carolina? Maybe it's a big deal to the meat industry, maybe it's unjust, but you don't care. You don't have the bandwidth to know and care about all the people arrested in the US in the last couple of weeks.
Conspiracy theories aside, the media sells to Joe Sixpack. He wants to see the president fucking interns, Tim McVeigh, the Unabomber, riots, wars. And if the media were willing to go all "high-minded" and ignore what their customers want, they still wouldn't show much of Sklyarov. They'd talk about hungry people hurt by welfare reform, medicare, and other issues that seem important to them.
You'd like to make the media show Sklyarov, which would bore the hell out of normal people. Meanwhile, there are a million crackpots with different agendas they'd like the media to cover. None of them are what the consumers want.
There is a possible linkage to the Red Worm that could be exploited to the advantage of the anti-DMCA movement.
Since 'hackers' have already received the blame for the Red Worm, and the real author is unlikely to reveal him self naturally. It would be easy for practically AnyBody to gain sufficient info from the Cert Advisory to convince the 'typical security expert' found on most News Channels. Some social engineering by Mr AnyBody, via a phreaked phone could, could well claim responsibility to the naive mainstream media for the Red Worm as a demonstration against DCMA & since the DMCA makes it illegal to reverse engineer the Worm.
Catch 22.
The beauty of this is that once this issue is on the agenda it could be easily disavowed by mainstream anti-DCMA protesters.
Because Human rights are Universal, that is why they are called 'Human Rights' and not 'American rights'.
Article 11 of the UN Charter on Human Rights' says
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
You won't see any discussion of Dmitri Sklyarov on Washington talk shows, the evening news, or the cover of the weekly newsmagazines.
There was one story on the evening news here in the S.F. area. They were covering the protests over his arrest. I believe their words were, "Skylarov was arrested by the F.B.I. for writing software that allows users to steal books in the Adobe EBook format"
So much for an unbiased media...
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!"
If my research is correct, it was 1798 when the US legislated (constitutionally in many states) against imprisonment for debt (IFD). For those of you who are unfamiliar, IFD is the rather unpleasant tradition of providing the remedy of imprisoning a debtor who will not or cannot pay a debt to a creditor who asks the state for such a remedy.
I find it very distressing that there is an ever increasing trend towards making criminal offences of actions that are commercial or civil in nature. Whatever his doings, right or wrong, I think there is a strong case for arguaing that Dimitri has not acted criminally in any "natural" sense of the word. Adobe should be confined to redressing their losses in a Civil court.
I think that the comparison between the current time and the time of the social revolutions of 200 years ago is an interesting one. The legislators are being isolated from those who provide their mandate. Now I am not suggesting that any tea parties are being planned but there is certainly a lack of vigilence that explains eroding of our liberties. Prosperity insulates a lot of the community from caring about these issues.
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
I request that you put pressure on FBI and other Department of Justice authorities to free Dmitry Sklyarov from prison. He has been in prison for over two weeks now, has not been formally charged and to the best of my knowledge hasn't even had his first day in court. He is a Russian national that was arrested for doing the following:
1. The company he works for in Russia Elcomsoft made him create a program that disables the protection on the Adobe eBook file format so that it can be read or printed by legitimate users on their home computers without special Adobe software. Adobe complained to the FBI saying that he violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act by creating this software, however that is irrelevant as this act took place in Russia where the creation of such software is perfectly legal under the legal code of the Russian Federation.
2. He gave a scholarly dissertation to an audience at a security conference in the United States about the claims that Adobe makes about their eBook product and the actual capabilities of it that he discovered in the creation of his software.
I highly disapprove of the government's involvement in this case and its actions so far. Dmitry Sklyarov has a young wife and two small children that he must provide for back in Russia. He is being treated in a way that the government should never treat a legal visitor, resident alien or citizen of the United States of America. As an American citizen and voter I do not appreciate my government taking such actions which tarnish our country's record on civil liberties and blatantly violate both the text and the spirit of the United States Constitution.
Thank you for your time.
He is just an employee of a company which wrote and, for a short period of time, sold the Adobe eBook "decryption" program.
As far as I remember he was arrested for distribution of the knowlegde of the program - after his lecture at DEFCON.
Everyone is writing about how he's got arrested for writing and selling the program.... while he has really been arrested for telling that the eBook "encprytion" is unsecure and that there exists software that can crack it on the fly...
If he had remained hard-nosed they would've been forced to have hearings and trials. But he also would've been thrown back into the nasty places in prison with the dangerous offenders population.
Paul Boutin | Wired magazine | Senior Editor | and artloop groupie
Paul Boutin | writer for Slate, Wired, etc
Paul Boutin | Wired Magazine | Senior Editor | and amateur search engine optimization consultant
Paul Boutin | writer for Slate, Wired, etc
They have a third option: to simply decline to hear the case, and let lower court rulings stand. This is what has happened with all Second Amendment cases for decades: the Supremes, without comment, decline to review the appeal.
But I don't think they would do that for the DMCA; I think they would cheerfully grab the DMCA and rip it up, given a chance, so let's get this to them now.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Everyone knows this is only gonna end in court. My bet is the EFF sues it all the way up to the supreme court, where they do one of two things.
1. Declare the DMCA unconstitutional
2. Declare the 1st ammendment unconstitutional
Any bets onto which one?
I am !amused.
And remember to vote at the bottom. The more votes the better. The more people that see this and read it, the more chance that this won't just get 'lost' in the media. The sooner he gets home to his family the better.
The voice of one is seldom heard loudly, but the voice of a million can not be ignored.
Viacom does however own the network that runs the best news program in America, the Peabody Award winning Daily Show on Comedy Central.
Insanity is the last line of defence for the master diplomat. But you have to lay the groundwork early.
The TV media in the US reminds me of the short SciFi story The Marching Morons by CM Kornbluth. A recommended read.
The problem with the media is the obssession with sex, self-righteousness and self admiration. The only way Skylarov could get any attention would be if he slept with a congresswoman... or man...
Big media in fact criticize big advertizers a lot. A few years ago, NBC _faked_ a report on GM trucks catching fire in crashes, despite the fact that GM is the second biggest advertizer. Nor did the fact that Ford is a huge advertizer result in any lack of coverage of the huge Firestone-Ford tire debacle.
By the way, we have non-profit news sources here, too, including PBS (dull) and NPR (very good). The get most of their money by asking, though, instead of using the gun, as the BBC does.
how to copy and paste. I knew I had read all of this before. Most of the paragraphs look like they were directly copy and pasted out of that new york times article.
Or maybe they just ran the KatzBot on that NYT article. In which case I'm very disappointed in the KatzBot, I didn't see 'Corporate Republic' mentioned or even post-Columbine, maybe the KatzBot is broken.
--BEGIN SIG BLOCK--
I'd rather be trolling for goatse.cx.
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
If Dmitri Sklyarov wants media atention, he must somehow get "sex" in his story. Once he does that the media will be all over him.
---------------
Sig
abbr.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
While I agree with most of what you said... This little bit had me ROTFLMAO.
Take his passport.
Yea... Right... In a country with virtually *no* border control. He walks across the border to Mexico at any number of places along our border, and stops by the Russian embassy and says "I'm Dimitri Sklyrov. The americans have taken my passport, and are trying to impose their law on the activities of honest hard working Russian citizens in the Rodina. I'd like to go home, can you help me get a new passport? I can buy my own plane ticket." They'd match his fingerprints and verify his identity and he'd be on the next non-stop over the pole to Moscow, putting the "flight" in "flight risk".
We should just let him go, and prevent an international incident. Test the law in court against an american citizen.
Temkin
... and therefore about 20 years suffices for changing this to a society that does care about fair and reasonable reporting. It is MUCH faster to change society than to change human body/mind. Reporting was a profession that developed as newspapers did -- a one-to-many medium required reporters. The Internet is a many-to-many medium, and all reasonable individuals can and should replace the specialised professional. I predict this will happen as soon as the next generation takes its place in the so-called "work force." These kids have a very high social intelligence.
WTF. He is an adult Jon. You are talking like some 14 year old is in jail.
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How big is this society you are talking about? All of America? All linux users? Slashdot readers? Russian programmers who break encryption? Unless you are talking about a majority of society, you are not going to see much mainstream press. Does that suck? Yes, it does.
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For starters, the software company in question is also responsible for production of some address harvesting software and other tools commonly used by spammers. There is some circumstantial evidence that says that Dmitri might also have been involved with the production of this software.
The "news media" aren't dumb. If the mainstream media picks up that this guy in jail is a Russian, a "hacker", AND a spam apologist (or at least works for one)... it might not be pretty. Joe Internet-user is more likely to say "let the schmuck rot in hell/jail" rather than hear our side of the story once the spam connection is made. I know I'M not comfortable with the connection.. I can only imagine how it'll sell in Sheboygan.
But, then of course, to know that Dmitri's software company is involved in spam would have required research, something that the mainstream media seems to do a lot more than JonKatz does.
Like sitting in the front of the bus!
Nor is he a citizen.
You are not correct. In criminal law, every one, citizen or not, has the same rights under the Constitution. Immigration is a special case, and immigration proceedings are not criminal law--they are immigration law, concerned with whether or not an alien has entered or remains in the United States properly. A citizen is never subject to these proceedings.
The detention of aliens prior to their hearing is not a criminal detention, but an administrative detention. There is a difference. In an immigration proceeding, the question is whether or not someone will be allowed to stay in the country. In some cases (risk of flight, usually), the alien is detained until the hearing and/or appeals process concludes and they are deported or allowed to stay. In other cases, the alien is paroled pending the hearing. In a criminal hearing, the issue is whether or not you will be imprisoned, fined, or executed. All due process standards apply to all defendants in criminal cases.
Madness takes its toll...
A few things: Why has no bail been set?...probably because the prosecution convinced the judge that he was a significant flight risk. And frankly, he may be a flight risk. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a travesty that he is in jail at all. But given the normal standards used in a bail hearing, the judge is well within his/her rights to deny bail.
When is he going to be indicted by the grand jury?...you don't have to be indicted by a grand jury. Most criminal defendants are not. The prosecution files an "information" or a "criminal complaint" indicting you with the court, and the judge issues a bench warrant for your arrest.
BTW, we don't "routinely let murderers and rapists out on the street on unjustifiably puny bails." We let people who are accused of crimes out on bail if the judge does not believe that they have a high risk of flight or a high risk of danger to the community. That is because they are presumed to be innocent until they are proven guilty. Sometimes the system fails, but it usually does not.
He is being detained until he can be transferred to the Bay Area for trial in the U.S. District Court in SF. Once there, there will be a preliminary hearing and trial will be scheduled. He will probably be detained until after the conclusion of the trial. If found not guilty, he will then be freed. If found guilty he will be detained during any appeals, and unless the conviction is overturned, he will then be sentenced. That is how the system works.
Madness takes its toll...
We need to get people to realize that this is the tip of the iceberg..
Soon they will start regulating CD's.. 'You aren't using a player that is approved by the manufacturer of the CD, you can't play it - you also don't find this out until you've opened it and can't return it.'
The masses need to be educated that the corporations are running things and that they have no rights.. Its quickly heading this country to Hell ..
It will soon be in God we trust, everyone else, here's the lube, bend over !
UPS Sucks
Ummm... Yes ?
UPS Sucks
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/07/25/hacker .reut/index.html
r .arrest.dispute/index.html
r .reut/index.html
. sheriff.idg/index.html
r ime.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/hacke
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/07/24/hacke
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/internet/07/24/cyber
http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/20/ashcroft.cyberc
msnbc has a story on it here
-=[the machine masters the grim and the dumb]=-
Hmm... Katz almost always writes series of stories. It's obvious that Sklyarov and Katz are working together to try and buff up the interest in his writing. Gee, Too bad they didn't think about this plan first.
I know more than you drink.
Ok, Jon, so given your wonderful insights into the media and how they think, what would you suggest we actually DO about this? To paraphrase, "shut up and educate."
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
The reason as to why Dimitri is not in the news is because is has no interest to the typical American. If this was in the news then it would probably not be shown in a good light. It would probably be something like "Evil Russian Communist Hacker Threatens American Business". This is the same thing that happened with Kevin Mitnick. In some ways it might be better that hes not being brought out into public view. I still think it sucks though that he's still in jail for something that is perfectly legal. Wouldn't the Russian embassy have helped him get out by now though? Puck
No, because the propaganada the US government programmed you with wouldn't allow for the concept.
One of the first mentions of the Sklyarov arrest came from trusted news source National Public Radio which broadcasts on hundreds of public radio stations across the country. You know the ones. They're the ones that beg for donations once a month to keep the station afloat, as they aren't getting near the funding that they used to from the federal government.
A search on their website finds five different mentions of the situation, starting on July 18. Considering most of the folks that listen to NPR on a regular basis tend to be in the upper range of IQ scores, it's a good audience to have but far from the saturation that the cause needs.
While you are reaching for your wallet to support the EFF, also consider making a donation to your local Public Broadcasting Station. They are as close to objective news reporting as you are likely going to get here in the US of A.
This action could seriously impact the US's ability to attract top programmers from around the world to participate in the development of new technology.
Who would want to face jail time for simply writing a program that's completely legal in your native country?
Praying for the end of your wide-awake nightmare.
What if what you've done isn't a crime at all? I assume you read slashdot regularly. Once somebody on slashdot posted code from once of microsofts products. You viewing such material, even unwillingly, was illegal in this standpoint. Turn yourself in and do the time, sucker.
Ouch man, have you ever been wrongly arrested for a crime? Have you spent time in jail when you really didn't commit a crime? Do you really know how going to jail affects the rest of your life? laws like this put the smartest people of our society in jail because they understand the information they distribute.
This isn't the same at all. What if someone told you they knew how to find out coke's secret formula by somehow disecting a can of coke? They didn't actually do it, they just told you how, do they deserve to got to jail? I think information like this would be valueable to coke as well. If they knew their cola can be hacked, they would find a way to prevent it. Laws like this simply supress the information, but the possibility still lies there.
Woah buddy. Do you really think that just because someone doesn't live in your country the don't deserve rights? So if i, in canada, start to distribute such information as dimitri, the US has the same right to do to me as they did to him? What you're saying is it's ok to strip someone of their rights because they commited a crime outside of your country. America: The land of the free. Become us, then you will have rights when we nail your ass to the wall.
I could not possibly say anything more perfectly to the point. So I will just say, "yep" and nod my head. And as far as the implications of this: I think that if this story won't be noticed by anyone, it is in OUR best interests to see that it BECOMES noticed. Just as the free-sklyarov people are saying. This is really, really important. The Big Picture is to get the DMCA repealed, but more immediately important is that we stir a ruckus that gets Dmitry out of jail. How much does anyone want to bet that this will not create nearly as much trouble as the Mitnick ordeal did? What's the difference? Mitnick was a very stupid guy who got his rights taken away. We didn't support his freedom because he was nice, and we didn't contest that he broke the law. The beef was that he wasn't getting rights he was supposed to be guaranteed. Now Dmitry is just the converse. He didn't do anything illegal, except under the DMCA, which I personally refuse to accept as law, and if I could find a good and stirring way to break it, I would. He was OFFICIALLY arrested for that, but I hope we ALL know the REAL reason was because he happened to piss off Adobe Systems. Plus he's not being allowed to speak with his embassy. Plus he wasn't the only author of the software in question. Plus the COMPANY that released the software in Russia isn't getting any blame attached. They distinctly arrested Dmitry. Plus Adobe BOUGHT this software a month prior, so there isn't even any ethical argument here. That's the danger of the DMCA. Let the SELLER beware. Not the buyer. Dmitry is personally being held accountable for something that an escrow service that answers to the company that Dmitry works for did. So why won't this get the same support that Mitnick did? Because we can't really condense our entire argument to one easily-memorized sentence. That, and even a great deal of American people who read Slashdot don't seem to care, because althought this happened on US soil, this is still an 'over there' problem, simply because Dmitry is Russian.
An individual could write a virus with encrypted source and make it available for download (for community testing purposes, of course). The individual would hold the copyright on this software.
This piece of software would not be necessarily malicious. Because people can use it for its intended purposes only (testing the integrity of their own system/network), any claims that its malicious nature makes it an illegal work, not protected by copyright law, are invalid.
The malicious nature of something is judged more by its intent than by its extent. Providing a frying pan (or even a car) to a friend who then uses it to kill someone does not make you liable (correct me on the car case if I'm wrong). If a "virus" were designed as a security tool, would it be considered malicious? A strong case could be made against this.
An eBook publisher who disagrees.
If you want to see free reporting, look to the BBC. Yes all the brits, myself included, hate the fact we have to pay a licence to own a TV, but this means we have a corporation in the UK that does NOT depend on advertising for its revenues. It can report on what needs to be reported. If it annoys people, who cares because they CANNOT lose their revenue.
The BBC is IMHO the best source of news. Unfortunately being a british institution they dont have any report on this, but maybe it is a model the US government should follow. It sure works in the UK as a medium for fair reporting.
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
Fair enough, I did a search and came up with nothing. I did the same search now and got 2 items about it. I guess the BBC search engine was being funny when I looked
Tux Games. Your complete source for native Linux games.
But what if the formula were written in French (a well known encryption technology, since no-one wants to admit to being able to speak French). Am I still a felon if I publish a French phrasebook.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
It is bizarre that Skylarov should be prosecuted
under the DMCA, since he did not violate it.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
The MEDIA lobbied to get DMCA passed through congress... they know it's a shady law.
After the whole DeCSS thing, the public opinion swayed against the DMCA...
So it makes sense that the media isn't giving a nanosecond towards Dmitri.... they don't want any more bad press about their DMCA.
Once people realize that the DMCA is a violation of our US constitution - people will fight to get rid of it! The media doesn't want to lose their golden sword!
[Connection closed by foreign host]
The reason the media hasn't picked up on this is because the public just isn't interested.
Remember, hacker = bad in the public mind. Who defines who the hackers are? People with money.
Watergate was a popular cause, where the public interest was immediately and obviously involved. Corruption in the white house? Not only is it important, it's good for a zillion headlines.
It is not at all clear that the public at large would object to this arrest. Many will feel that this software has no business being written. Many will support the idea that electronic works should be protected in this fashion.
We see the dangers. But this is the public that eats, sleeps, and breaths mass media culture. They like marching to the beat of the loudest drum. Money allows corporations to beat loud drums.
The media could make an issue out of this, but mass media has the same problem the people at large do. Since their work is often in electronic form, they may see their bottom line threatened as well. That's not going to inspire them. They'll take risks, but it has to be something bigger than a hacker breaking encryption on ebooks. ebooks themselves aren't very big. For them this is just a non-story.
We care because we want to know when the encryption on something is weak. That's a technical concern the general public doesn't have. Corporations don't want to take the effort to be secure, and neither do most other people. It is much easier to attack anything that looks like a threat. That is what this looks like.
So don't expect help from mass media. They might play up the family man angle, but his general appeal is zero. As is ours, where matters like this are concerned. We insist on the real solution, which is too expensive and too much work, so we will be ignored.
I'm not saying we should go gentle into that good night, but we need to be realistic here. Convince the people who make the laws. Find compromises which meet everyones needs. Because nothing else will work. We aren't going to win a total victory. We don't have the public with us, and never will.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
You know what's even scarier? The power held by the man who types the news tickers onto the screens on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Think about it for a minute. Whoa.
Coca Cola's secret formula is a trade secret. If you discovered Coke's formula because you broke into their production plant and stole it, or if you violated an NDA that gave you access to it, then yes, you would likely be sued and possibly sent to jail. However, if you legitimately reverse engineered their formula, knowing nothing about it other than that which comes printed on their cans and bottles, then they have no legal defense against your disclosing your discovered formula to the world. This is one of the biggest differences between patent and copywrite protection and trade secret protection.
Were he a reporter for the Washington Post or New York Times challenging claims of Microsoft or Adobe or Disney, you can only imagine the media furor, and the pressure being brought to bear on politicians and federal officials to get him out.
The reason the media hasn't said jack about Sklyarov is not becaue he's not a journalist, it's because he's not an American.
He's a Russian Hacker. See!? Even to us slashdotters, that almost sounds like a bad thing, but of course it isn't.. That's profiling for you...
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
The Senate Judiciary Committee is holding confirmation hearings right now on Dubya's choice of the next director of the FBI, Muller.
So, do something about it and send an email to Senator Leahy, the chairman of the committee.
If this question is brought up before Muller, it will definitely get more media attention.
Quantum computers and quantum computing factoring algorithms clearly allow the circumvention of many current standard encryption protection methods. Why don't we just round up all the IBM and AT&T Labs developers and put them in jail too? The DMCA doesn't have exemptions for them, does it? I didn't think so. Hey, we can't have these wanton crimallys wandering the halls, can we? Hey, wait! Math and physics teachers are spreading the information need to build these circumvention devices! Round them up too! M-o-r-o-n-s - don't decode that (it's copyrighted and encrypted by my secret dash insertion algorithm).
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Oh, come on. The USA has been known to *EXECUTE* foreigners without letting them consult with their consulate, in violation of the Vienna Convention, and you're shocked the media isn't covering someone who's been in jail for two weeks?
As an employee, is Dmitri Sklyarov libel for ElcomSoft's actions?
Gosh, now I'm nervous ... I hope my company isn't up to any hanky-panky.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
Having waded thru 300 odd posts of hand wringing and back biting, I failed to see the most obvious
remedy mentioned. Writing Congressmen and columnists is all well and good, but so far it hasn't shown significant results.
The proper way to kill the DMCA is to make it innefective, by ensuring that the program in question is disseminated as broadly as possible over the internet. The real significance of the DeCSS case was that regardless of what the courts or the government did, the cat was out of the bag.
The most distressing thing to me about this case is that I have seen no evidence of Sklyarov's program ( or anyone else's ) being posted anywhere.
If you really want to make a difference, this is the strategy to follow.
Please, someone with access to his program, or the
necessary skills to duplicate it, get to work and post the damn thing (and become a martyr yourself if necessary, although that shouldn't be ineviatable.) and render the whole foolishness moot.
If you have scruples about violating Sklyarov's (or Elcomsoft's(?)) intellectual property rights,
by all means ask for donations for him or them, but this is war, and he is already a casualty.
If you don't think that the proper way to kill a law is by showing that it is unenforceable, or that doing so is immoral or unethical, then you
simple are living on the wrong planet.
Anything NOT worth doing is NOT worth doing well...
Lessig in the NYT op-ed piece states "The DMCA outlaws technologies designed to circumvent other technologies that protect copyrighted material". The actual law requires that these other technologies _effectively_ protect copyrighted material. Just what this "effectively" means is yet to be decided in courts. It could mean just about anything. It could even be taken to mean "unhackable", which then make the whole law pointless.
So I'm asking those out there who do. Would you please post a well written, none offensive LETTER TO THE EDITOR that a previous poster has suggested. If enough people will take the time to print it out and mail it in (stamps are not that much) we could at least do SOMETHING.
I've signed the petition. I've told everyone I know. But still no one really cares. Right now it's more of a "well that sucks...but what the hell its just a Russian" kind of attitude. Like it's not something that could happen to anyone else in America. Or that it affects the First Amendment in the LEAST!
So I'm asking, please post what you've got. The more we send it out the greater the chance we have of at least being heard.
..which just shows that the human brain is ill-adapted for thinking and was probably designed for cooling the blood-T P
Get in touch with a programmer/hacker who can write up a paper or a presentation on an eBook-type copyright-protection-system and its weaknesses. Make sure that -- under the unfortunate existing climate -- it would violate the DMCA, yet break no other law (copyright, etc.) Then, with a lot of fanfare through press releases, support of your media outlet, etc., and having notified the local and federal authorities, present the paper at a news conference.
1. It forces the Federalis' hand: if they don't bite and refuse to arrest, they've rendered enforcement of the law inconsistent and therefore taken all the wind out of the sails of existing and future cases.
2. If they arrest, the resulting media storm -- pretty much guaranteed if you make the above assumptions about jailing newspeople -- will, if nothing else, bring the issue to wide consciousness, but will also likely generate enough pressure to free Sklyarov and drop the charges against him. It might also give a boost to Prof. Felton's case.
The risk to you is imprisonment, so unless you work for a high-profile media outlet that can generate a lot of pressure or you don't mind sittin' in the lockup...
there was brief mention of Dmitry (and the CULT OF THE DEAD COW) on the NPR syndicated show Marketplace. it was sort of pathetic though -- they mentioned that he was arrested and that adobe dropped the charges after anti-DCMA hactivists organized protests and got generally pissed. but they failed to mention that he's still in jail.
fear is the mind killer
amen brother!
- Toby
Actually, if you extend that last analogy, it comes across very clear and concise:
1) GM sells cars.
2) GM sells spare keys for cars (in case you lose yours, you are a repo-man, you don't need a reason to buy these)
3) "Company X" also sells spare keys to cars (same reason, not illegal)
4) It only becomes illegal if John Doe purchases spare keys from either company to gain access to a car that does not belong to him.
5) The DMCA is transferring the legal liability from the consumer to "Company X", so it is essentially saying: "Only GM can make keys for GM cars, anyone else is breaking the law"
Now, this is how John Doe is able to visualize the fellacious nature of this law and understand that the DMCA _DOES_ protect GM, as much as it is guaranteeing a monopoly on a product, and enforcing it.
---
Hammer of Truth
If 200,000 people give $300.00 to the EFF that would be 60 Million Dollars .
So where is the organization or group that is gathering people together to do this???? This is a great cause and the only realistic way to fight those bastard DCMA supporters.
I have come to believe this about 'content providers', the media in general as a business since about 1980 when News and Sports became entertainment vying for ratings, and advertisers on Madison Avenue in particular:
They must maintain control over the flow and content of reality as we perceive it because it is the way to control and manipulate behaviour. The thought of a truly free-thinking mass enjoying free discourse of ideas and free expression is anathema to 'them' (Yes, Them).
Now, in the present, now that the ways and means of production and distribution of information (i.e., what the media once owned exclusively) is available to all, to the People, They need control. How do they obtain control? By vilifying an entire sector of society, pointing out the dangers of allowing 'Hackers' unfettered sovereignty, and locking up - er, literally - access to the information flow as if that were the only solution to reduce the anxieties of a mind-numbed and brainwashed populace.
Ya know, I used to feel somewhat paranoid about this, and I Know I Sound paranoid. But repeated excesses of those in power have only served to reinforce my belief in the complete loss of self-autonomy and sovereignty of the Human Spirit in America.
And what have we gained from this? We have preserved the profitiability of a few hundred corporations.
I don't think that's a fair trade.
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
Ya know, I read Thoreau's treatise on Civil Disobedience last night, and he actually mentions corporations. Here is the quote:
/code sites, that is...
It is truly enough said that a corporation has no conscience; but a corporation on conscientious men is a corporation with a conscience.
In ca. 1974, the foundation of journalistic integrity began eroding as the Newsdesks of the big three factored ratings into their determination of what is and what is not newsworthy. But something is not important just because people watch it! Some things stand apart from marketing concerns, and an honest news reporter would know that.
Just because you worked for CBS, a company that sold out just like the rest, doesn't give you the authority to blame the American people for your bosses' decision to turn What is Important into What Sells.
I'm sorry, but when it comes to news, Screw Ratings, Man. Have some integrity. If your company had kept its integrity, such things as the DMCA, SDMI, and the plight of Mitnick would have been reported a long time ago.
Not for gratuitous points, but Thank God for this forum, the only place I know of to get some honest reporting and opinions! Um, other than the other
SDMI: Finally! Music that won't rip or burn! Brought to you by the fine folks at RIAA.
Lets face it the Big Media conglomerates are the ones who benefit from the DCMA. Oh and they also control the Press in this country
Yes but when you create a crime that is based upon expressing information and society believes it to be a repression of their rights, the media usually picks up on it a bit harder than they are now.
"This is where god would go if he wanted to get off blow!"
If you stumbled upon Coca-Cola's formula and published copyrighted material like that sure you would go to jail. The same in this case, with the exception being that the law is viewed by many as being unjust. Nobody is really saying it isn't illegal (I would hope in any case) just that the situation should garner more attention for its injustices.
"This is where god would go if he wanted to get off blow!"
Yes yes, your 3 step program to enlighten us has worked wonders. Amazing. Now, maybe you could explain your 3 steps in more detail like you criticized the last guy for? Or perhaps you aren't that well versed in the case either, you just read a CNN article on it last week eh?
"This is where god would go if he wanted to get off blow!"
Not everything in the world is protected by the first amendment. I don't completely agree with the DMCA, but it *does* attempt to protect copyrights. If someone was out on the street selling Xeroxed copies of the newest Stephen King book, I'm sure that the police would arrest the person on the spot.
Just because there is a first amendment doesn't mean that you can do anything and claimed to be protected by it. If that were so, there could be no laws--you could murder someone on account of a political statement.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
I notice that the ACLU's web site still doesn't have any mention of the case since I posted about this last time.
At the time, several people posted that they were going to submit requests to the ACLU's submission page. Did anyone get any response?
I still cynically believe that the ACLU will never pay attention to this case because they don't want to piss off their gravy train, but I would interested to hear if anyone got a response.
--
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Pepsi has known the formula for Coke for decades, and vice-versa. It wouldn't take a flavoring specialist and a little qualitative analysis long to be able to reproduce almost all the key components of Coke's flavor. Rather than copy Coke's taste exactly, Pepsi uses relatively more citrus oils and tastes different enough that some people prefer it to Coke.
There's a provision in copyright law
Copyright doesnt have to be involved. I believe all there needs to be is circumvention of the encryption. Thats all that is involved in the Adobe / Sklyarov case.
--------
The ivory tower has never had to reach so h
No I'm not. I'm just going by the name Chundra now.
--
The system can also detain people who are at risk of fleeing, and I'd think it's a pretty safe be that Mr. Sklyarov would be in Russia if he could be.
Has it not occurred to anyone that we haven't bothered to hear the state's side of the story as to why he's still in jail?
It is our constitutional duty to get this kid out of our jail and back to his family. In America Constitutional duties are VERY serious. Every American has sworn to uphold the Constitution, which is what our republic is based upon. In the past, upholding this Constitution sometimes demanded from citizens the ultimate sacrifice. In my past, when protesting against government actions I worried less about the sacrifice. Now in midlife, the call comes again. OK. Lets get this job done.
Could somebody please tell me how he broke the law? He wrote code in Russia that is legal in Russia. He then put it on his website in Russia. The only people who broke the law, it seems to me, are the people who boughtit. This I believe include the FBI and ADOBE. I think we can all admit this LAW is over reaching. Doesn't the 11th admendment say something like
.
"The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens or subjects of any foreign state."
Doesn't this mean that our laws do not apply to other courties?
Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels.
This happend once, but it was publishing the combination of bank safe in the news paper. The news paper was found innocent of any wrong doing. I am sure someone can find a link to the story.
Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels.
As an avid copyright researcher, I'd like to know where there is a provision that illegal works can't be covered under copyright. It isn't in Title 17 of the U.S. Code (Copyright Law) as I'm sure I would have noticed it during my 3 indepth treks through the murky twists and turns and redundancy of the law.
So far as I am aware, the legality of a work has nothing to do with whether or not it may enjoy copyright protection. If the work is illegal to publish (such as a computer virus or a photo-journal of child pornography,) then it may not be legally published and the copyright protection becomes moot. Publication and copyright are separate as of the 1976 copyright act and the work neither has to be registered nor carry a notice and it is still copyrighted. Interoffice memoes are copyrighted. Desktop doodles are copyrighted. Legality does not come into it at all. An illegal copyright is some claiming a copyright on something that's genuine copyright belongs to another, or a claim of copyright on a Public Domain work.
Don't just complain - DO something about it!
KQED radio (San Francisco) had a bit on the Dmitry protests today also. Are stations in other markets covering this?
sulli
RTFJ.
Of course he's still in jail, Jon. He broke a "law", and he's in the hands of the US Government now. Do you think they just let people out after one day? They have so many loops to jump through that it's ridiculous.
I give it another month.
"Stop saying 'Don't quote me' because if no one quotes you, you probably haven't said a thing worth saying" -KMFDM
He 'took' the key from Adobe and his company was selling it...that is wrong. The key wasn't given to him by Adobe. I think selling the code is what got him into this mess. Selling implies a transfer of ownership to the purchaser...but you have to ask "Does buying a stolen good really make it yours?" It's a moral choice.... Let me buy the keys to your car please...
Not to be picky (Warning: I agree that the DMCA is immoral don't lynch me) But the law is the law and you don't selectively enforce the law based on what you feel is right or wrong. You challenge the law and get it removed.
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
Why should a non citizen of the U.S. be afforded the same rights as a citizen?
if a non U.S. citizen are to be judged by U.S. law, that same non U.S. citizen must also be protected by the same rights and law under which he is being judged.
if this is not so, then there is something rotten in the state of denmark, and in the U.S. as well.
Detailing weaknesses of an encryption method already put to use by a private company can wreak havoc on their profitability.
And detailing the weaknesses of Firestone tires on Ford Explorers can wreak havoc on their profitability too. Too bad someone didn't do it earlier. If it were software he'd be put in jail for it though.
It is in the public's best interest to expose shoddy workmanship from a corporation, be it tires or security. He did them, us, and authors a favor by exposing this before it got too big.
This is why lectures and papers that provide the information to destroy a business's financial security are so dangerous.
As soon as people start saying speech is dangerous, we are in very big trouble. History is full of this rationale for censorship on a number of subjects, most of which you wouldn't consider "dangerous." Speaking out about human rights abuses while in China is currently "dangerous."
At the very least, jailed Russian boy should have informed Adobe of the weaknesses inherent in their encryption scheme before attempting to give this information to the public domain.
IIRC, his company did. Besides, their program was perfectly legal under the laws of their country. It even may have served to make an illegal program, eBook reader, legal by allowing backups.
Furthermore, arguments that revealing the weaknesses of encryption schemes is a public service is bunk in this case, because Adobe's encryption scheme isn't in widespread use.
That is exactly why it is a public service. Luckily, millions of authors didn't start using this format, only to find that it is easily broken.
Don't forget that cracking applications like this actually provide a service. You have certain Constitutional and statutory rights, such as first sale, fair use, and backups. If the content control of a book attempts to take any of these from you, then you have a means of regaining those stolen rights.
Just because something can be used for illegal purposes you propose banning it? Quick, ban mice, I feel like strangling my coworker with the cord!
You might want to consider the fact that there _are_ exceptions to the First Amendment already,
Those exceptions are few and far between and must withstand the utmost scrutiny from courts that hold the First Amendment in higher esteem than you. Prior restraint is very rarely granted, and as shown with the recent Gone With the Wind parody, often overturned if granted. Other attempts at restricting speech are also not taken lightly. If Larry Flynt can prevail against Jerry Falwell in the Supreme Court, we all have a chance.
Since the big news agencies answer to the same corporate masters that produce (other) copyrighted material, why would it be in their best interest to overturn a law that guarantees them more profit at the expence of the common good?
Let me say that again. Big news media is owned by big business - they don't want the DMCA overturned, so why should they report on how it is abusing the Constitution?
science is a religion
It was reported in the IT section of The Australian. You can find the article here
try your local radio or tv stations...
Steve Magruder
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Steve Magruder
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
computer savvy person == suspicious
encryption expert == suspicious
person who wrote a decryption program without governmental or corporate blessing == hacker
hacker == evil
hacker arrested by FBI == no smoke without fire, therefore the hacker must be guilty
and for many in the US :
russian == communist
communist == evil
russian hacker == evil evil
russian hacker arrested by FBI == hooray FBI for saving the free world !!!
Most likely, if Dmitri's case receives press coverage, it'll probably be something like "Evil russian hacker arrested for attacking good US corporation Adobe's interests", not "Poor bastard in jail for 2 weeks without bail hearing". So maybe it's just as well if the press doesn't talk about it (the word you're looking for by the way is "biased").
Welcome to the politically corrected corporate America ...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Trying to explain the situation to anyone besides the most technically literate people is like talking to a wall. The press has a wider audience than techies and I suspect that even the press doesn't understand the case very well.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
This stuff always makes me laugh. Noam obviously never worked in the media. I have for the last twenty years. Trust me on this, it can't be over-stressed. We're not close to bright, single-minded or organized enough to hone and implement these 'secret guidelines' on news content. Those are fantasies promulgated by intellectuals who in most cases literally never left school.
This is off topic, but I just HAD to respond to this.
You're so full of bullshit--probably because you dispensed so much of it for so long--that your self-serving lament of "we're only giving 'em what they want" is actually believable to you.
If you read ANY of Chomsky's work, you'd KNOW there is no conspiracy theory about the Propaganda Model--it simply descibes the system AS IT EXISTS. (Chomsky and Herman regularly attack the Times and Post for their reporting, and neither of them can easily fit into your "lowest common denominator" category.) I studied journalism in college, too, and I know what it takes to get ahead in your business--that's why I do IT work: it may be a Dilbert World, but I don't have to lie every day for my living. (Yes, I know that you don't "lie", you merely "filter" and "arrange" for easy consumption by the people you hold in such complete contempt.)
Like some date-rapist, you blame the victim for your own mediocrity and sell out. Scum like you have to look up to lawyers for moral guidance; it appears that you're not even looking that far these days.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, The Histories
Read practically any *political* book by Noam Chomsky and Edward Herman, and you'll soon come to the realization of the futility of your proposal (for a taste from _Manufacturing Consent_, go here.) Only ideological material that fits within the agenda of the given elite will get full play in the media--which is, of course, NOT free, but wholly owned by increasingly fewer groups of people whose interests coincide less and less with those of "the People"; that is why, surprise, surprise, this case is muted, if not completely unknown, because it challenges the tenets of issues the DMCA camp wants kept quiet.
Sadly, writing to your editor solves nothing more than venting your spleen *here* does--actually, probably far less, as at least SOME people beyond the Gatekeepers see your opinions here, whereas at the Times and Post the most likely recipient of your words is the Round File.
No, if you want to support Dimitry, send him and his lawyers money. If you want to stop the DMCA--and other repressive measures taken by the Elite, be prepared to help those on the front lines with your wallet. In this unjust society, money is the only force that can buy Justice.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, The Histories
Unfortunately, they didn't seem too interested when Emmanuel Goldstein (aka Eric Corley) was hauled into court by the MPAA...
-------
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
What really frightens me is the chicken-and-egg problem inherent in all of this. The media thinks that the masses only want titilating sensationalism in their news. Yet, the masses typically look to the media to know what to be concerned about and to what they should pay attention. Unfortunately, the media isn't giving issues about digital law any type of coverage, therefore no one is concerned about it.
The other thing that worries me is that people just don't seem to care about laws in the digital age. Given that the average computer user doesn't show the slightest interest in how and why computers work, I honestly can't imagine that they would care about how and why digital laws work. As long as they can get their music and chat rooms, they will probably be content with the DMCA. Professors being threatened by the RIAA over a scholarly paper? Big deal. Russian hacker tossed in jail? That Commie deserves it. The Slashdot community is up in arms but that is only because it has entered our realm.
Perhaps I've been reading Transmetropolitan too much lately, but I'm starting to think that society in the future really will degenerate into a group of apathetic people who are only concerned with what they can buy, eat, or fuck.
-------
We want some answers and all that we get
Some kind of shit about a terrorist threat
- Ministry
coke's secret formula is not subject to copyright. it's a trade secret.
normally, corporations guard trade secrets pretty close. they make the few employees who have to know them sign non-disclosure agreements. things like that.
if those employees violate their contracts, they get sued for breach of contract.
there's no jail involved.
copyright is the only form of intellectual property that has the risk of jail.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I only wish. I drank a can of "Old Coke" about six months after New Coke came out. (At an automotive garage that would buy months worth of soda ahead of time just because they could.) It was only after I drank it and noticed the familiar flavor that I looked at the can and saw the promotional offer from just before New Coke came out.
New Coke was really just a scam so they could stop using 100% sucrose sugar because U.S. sugar prices were so inflated (like 10 times the world market price) and start using High Fructose Corn Syrup instead. They would mess so much with the sweetner mix for Coke Classic that about three or four years ago I gave up and switched to Diet Coke because of batches of Coke Classic that would taste worse. At least Diet Coke has a consistent flavor.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
I'm out on my road bike last night to put in a couple dozen miles and a couple climbs. I'm about to head back home and take the lights legally, coasting along behind a silver/grey Ford Taurus around a left turn. I'm drifting over to the bike lane and ahead is a local TV news van, probably out looking for the odd house fire ("Houses, are they safe? Should people move back to caves, on tonight's in-depth report"), auto wreck ("Roads, are they safe? Should we go back to driving down rutted cart paths, on tonight's in-depth report"), or the next dog mauling victim ("Pitbulls, are they safe? Should people be required to wear padded armor in public to save this noble and misunderstood breed, on tonight's in-depth report"). The driver ahead of me stops, right in the road, IMHO, to see what excitement the news crew is there pursuing. To dodge the car I dive to the bike lane, my rear tire skidding and hammering into the curb, ejecting a spoke reflector, which shatters. My wheel is bent, but I'm otherwise fine.
The news media is obviously a distraction. People look to it, as the driver did, to see what action they're after, while themselves posing a hazard to those around them ("Roadies, are rubbernecking drivers safe from them? Or should they all be locked in a burning mobile home full of pitbulls being towed down the freeway, in tonight's in-depth report") would hold up traffic. I have no doubt that if they asked the driver about a russian programmer being detained by an unjust law the driver's eyes would glaze over and they'd have to pull into a McDonalds to re-establish their bearings.
Just my half a nybble.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Letter from Birmingham Jail'
in Why We Can't Wait 1963
"Don't mess with him, he taunts the happy fun ball."
We interrupt this broadcast to bring you the latest in the Chandra Levy case... yep, she's still missing!!!
Ok, now back to this thing about a russian in jail for breaking uh, the law i guess, i'm not really sure... i think the YMCA, er, DMV is involved.
Nosce te Ipsum
Lost track of the story for a while, so
don't flame me for not knowing..
but where's the Russian government?
Don't they care that one of their citizens
is being held prisoner without trial
or bail?
If this case had been reversed, you'd here
plenty of yelling and screaming from
the Americans!
hey, an article in the NY Times isnt that bad, isnt it?
Here in Europe there around still around 25 or more people arrested for making culture, for protesting against capitalism. And most of the arent the big big mad bad "Black Block". They are persons expressing their opinions about globalization in a creative way.
I dont say that it is right what happens in the US with this Russiun guy. But it is a fact that this isnt such a very very big event.
J.
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit, I.
written anything about this in the major newspapers/news shows? (I don't mean news shows on the web, I mean CNN, NBC, ABC, FOXNews, on TV; I mean the New York Times, USA Today, Washington Post, and other local and national newspapers in print)
/. community would like to know.
Usually reporters are more than willing to be the first to post a story, why none here? I'm sure there are reporters who are reading Slashdot; if so, can you please reply on why your newspaper hasn't run any stories and/or if there has been any actiion by the Feds "convincing" you to not post any stories, or is it fear of gaining federal attention.
I know in my case, I've considered writing a letter to the editor regarding the DMCA and the resulting issues. However, I am definitely -not- a model citizen, and am afraid to gain attention by the FBI, and so I've kept my mouth shut, though as sson as I have the money, I'm going to try giving out flyers and such.
But regardless, if anybody out there has any *real* info on WHY the media isn't covering the case of Dmitry Skylarov or the DMCA, please inform us; I'm sure the
Thanks
If media outlets take a story relating to the injustice committed by jailing a programmer who enables consumers to practice their fair use rights, then those same media are essentially opening their own shirts so you can stick a knife into their hearts. The news media want copyright protection just as bad as film and music - otherwise NBC wouldn't be able to buy up all the Olympics coverage and restrict other US news organizations from broadcasting any images of it.
Information control is now a lucrative business. Maintaining that control is paramount above all else. Those things that benefit your information control (license agreements, digital "rights" legislation, monopolistic practices) are to be safeguarded, championed, and bought. Those things that threaten it (anti-DMCA press, Open Source, Nader) are to quieted or quashed.
This is not to say that all media are like this. There has been anti-DMCA press, but it seems to have all been in newspapers and is spread pretty thin.
The problem is that, overall, the US is in a pretty nice spot economically. As long as people can live their lives without too much hassle, they tend not to care about the fact that their rights are being purchased by corporations. It won't be until the corporations push to the point that Joe 6-Pack gets angry that anything will change, because we, the people who see this coming, are just the hacker underclass that make everything run. We are they who have no respect for authority that hasn't earned it, who shun the societal standards that allow mediocrity and ignorance to be an acceptable lifestyle. We're just pests, trying to muck up their happy little lives.
Whoa, that one took a big turn at the end. :)
-- Sinistar
We have people who have killed other people in a DUI not only free, but DRIVING AGAIN WITHIN A YEAR!! while others are paying hefty fines and even sitting in prison for a few months for doing something as ghastly as not paying a car registration on time.
There are all kinds of people having their rights trampled, and others who should have their freedoms taken away who don't. Dmitry is just another statistic. If you want to help him you should want to help all the other poor bastards as well. I don't see you bitching about that though.
OK, activism 101, for all those who still care about freedom.
First, this is a federal prison, a federal case. The only things that matter in the US are as follows:
1. The White House - well, you can forget that one. Never going to happen, so don't waste your breath.
2. The US Senate - write a letter or phone your two US Senators. Or at least get one of those free postcards at a bar, cafe, movie place and send it in. If you can get three US Senators to make this an issue, it will get fixed. No matter what anyone says, this is how the system works. They will say "oh, we were going to do that anyway," but reality is that power is essential.
3. The US Congress - same as the senate. You need about five to seven US Congressmembers to breathe down the feds necks.
4. US Governors of affected states - same deal as Congress.
5. The media - if you can get on talk TV, this is worth about one congressman per half hour show.
6. Letter to the editor in your local paper. Congress and the Senate read these things. Keep it short, succinct, to the point, give a short URL to more news. Don't threaten, ask "what is this country doing to our rights" and use the phrase "un-American". Be reasonable in tone, don't shout.
7. Media pickets around major software firms - Adobe, Microsoft, anyone with any connection. Publicize these like mad. Make it obvious you're not going away.
Everything else is just noise and will be ignored by the system.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
It's a nice idea, but it would never work. There's a provision in copyright law that says that an illegal work cannot have protection. Just like you can't lock a nuke up in your house and claim that it can't be removed because it's inside your private property, you can't claim copyright protection for a virus.
Granted, it would have to be proven first that your code is malicious before they could break the encryption to study it, but that's easily done.
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
I am not saying any of this is morally right but I think they believe that a "criminal" with money and a home in Russia might just find his way onto a plane and see no reason to step foot on American soil again.
The "low lifes" of American society who get out on little bail ussually don't have the money to flee or anywhere they can go.
Sklyarov is really screwed in this one. He is in a fight he might not even have known was an issue, in a country that is not his own and put on political display.
I miss the Karma Whores.
The NY Times ran an editorial on Sklyarov yesterday. This paper gets huge readership. What's more, the section of this post about Felton seem to be taken directly from this editorial. Shame on you JonKatz....plagiarism in an article about copyright.
Wasn't at the top of the hour, but I think the SF protesters can still be pretty proud of that. (wish I was there, stupid network outage at 10:30 :P)
....it would get up in the top 10 so the others could find it and read this.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
...a staple feature of newspaper reporters in big cities is to go to local airports annually and test security procedures by carrying toy guns, knives or unloaded weapons into terminals.
Sorry, but I find this extremely difficult to believe. Can anyone show me a story by or about a reporter trying to sneak unloaded weapons into the secure area of an airport? I'll settle for a link to a story about even fake weapons, because I doubt that has happened either.
I'm not talking about professional security auditors, mind you. I'm referring to reporters, those guardians of the Constitution that were mentioned in the commentary.
Evil is the money of root.
Is this the first of a five part series? Please, it's important for your readers to pace themselves! I can stomach one article, but only if I know four more aren't enroute. (Part 3/5 is like hump day!)
woah, did you see the end of that article?
That's a neat little scenario of abusing the DMCA the guy mentions:
Virus writers can use the DMCA in a perverse way. Because computer viruses are programs, they can be copyrighted just like a book, song, or movie. If a virus writer were to use encryption to hide the code of a virus, an anti-virus company could be forbidden by the DMCA to see how the virus works without first getting the permission of the virus writer. If they didn't, a virus writer could sue the anti-virus company under the DMCA!
Now THAT is a nifty idea. Someone's GOT to try this. Not me though, I have vacation time coming up and I'm not going to spend it in prison!
-- Kengineer
I think this situation is SOOOOO stupid that we need to teach the big guys a lesson. Most of us know how to perform a DOS attack, overflow sendmail, etc. So I think is time we "unleash" hell on their servers until the situation is remedied. I know a lot of you are thinking that this is to much a radical approach, but has any of you consider how horrible is to be in jail? Would any of you think, if you were the one in jail, that collapsing network communications is too radical? C'on people, nobody is going to listen to us until we show them the power we have. I do not agree in performing electronic attacks as a way of changing the law. But I do believe in doing something when somebody is in jail for no reason (nobody has any proof that the "tool" created by this programmer was used to distribute pirate copies of ebooks; this whole argument is as silly as saying if a person buys a knife, he/she is for sure going to use it to kill somebody???!!!) Everybody here claims that they are "geeks". Ok, let's see if we can put into action a simultaneous electronic war against the companies and institutions that let an innocent man spend a single minute in jail.
"I can't see a f#@!! thing" - photon a to crossing photon b
Yes, but if it's public enough then you generally get away with it. Feminem got away with nearly shooting someone, Micro$oft got away with practically forcing people to use their software. This story isn't exactly in the public eye yet, but every geek out there should know the name Dimitry Skylarov by now. Give it time, and he'll be out again, crime or no crime.
You've got mail. Pattern baldness. - Crow
He's been in the brig for six years now.
Oh yeah. I forgot all about him!
Remember when Hitler turned Germany into hell on earth, said it would last 1000 years, and ended up sustaining it for only five years? The Digitial MILLENIUM COPYRIGHT Act sounds awfully familiar.
First of all, someone shouldn't be punished for the lack of encryption that adobe puts on their products. What would Adobe of have done if this information was released anonymously from the underground, and there wasn't anyone to point the finger at? The whole point, is that they are trying to make an example out of Dimitry, the same way they did with Mitnick.
And if you wrote a program to break into ATMs, of course it would get into the wrong hands. Guns get into the wrong hands all the time and they cause much more damage than Dimitry's program. Hmm.... I wonder why the US government is spending more time on foolish issues instead of taking care of the real problems?
---------------
But how can we be sure that Slashdot can be trusted?
Assuming that Mr. Taco and Mr. Neil are selfless lamas immuned to the allure of money, we still need to ask ourselves, "what prevents the media conglomerates from hiring smart people to karma-whore (used as a verb here), hijack the moderations and influence us towards their benefits?"
Those of you who cruise occasional at -1 to see what escaped the radar knows what I mean.
The only comfort that we have is numbers. Hence, actively participate in discussions and moderate diligently - even when you are a perpertual score 1 loser like me. Our only defence, this is.
Not to mention that breach of contract is a civil matter, not a criminal one. People don't go to jail for that kind of thing.
Jesus saves and takes half damage.
But now, they are quiet. Why? Because the intrigue of the story and the DMCA cannot be broken down into a 3 minute news segment. Besides that, most people who aren't geeks really don't understand whats at stake and whats involved. Call me elitest if you want but its true - most of my friends say they get the ol deer in headlights look when they try to explain why this is bad.
The only media that can do justice here is online media (which is redundant - the geeks already know) and print media which has more space to delve into the details. But even they are remainig quiet except for a few op-d pieces in the NY TImes and the like.
Plus, the fact that its 'some RUssian kid' instead of an all American honor student means most folks just don't care which is a shame. I'd love to see a news story where they talk with his wife (with children nearby of course) to try and humazine this. The other thing is the media needs to figure out a way to explain this to the average person - which is hard. Most of the analogies to lock picking tools, etc carry an inference of criminal intent - where most feel the DMCA restricts valid testing of encryption technologies to improve them.
So we're left with a bunch of Internet geeks vainly trying to cause an uproar about this but until the avvg Joe Sixpack can a) understand the issues and b) give a rats ass about them, Dimitri will conitnue to languish in jail.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Copyright law is NOT meant to protect the first amendment. It is to provide a monopoly of literary and commercial works to their creators. Thomas Jefferson was concerned about monopolies when working on the constitution and the bill of rights. But conceded that copyright was important.
JK -- Pentagon Papers stuff...
THIS is precisely what was meant to be protected by the first amendment. Discourse about the government. The Pentegon Papers raised a bright line on the what would be more important, protection of national security secrets, or prior restraint of publication of those secrets. This has NOTHING to do with the DMCA as it has nothing to do with National Security Secrets.
This case has received mainstream press interest including:
Reuters
ZD
Industry Standard
Forbes
The Wall Street Journal
Associated Press
Upside Today
JK -- No "serious" lawyer or constitutional lawyer sees a problem...
Except the judge that ruled against 2600. Except the lawyers that wrote the law. Except the lawyers trying to get the law enforced.
JK -- DMCA addresses things outside current copyright law...
DUH! It is new law. It addresses new things. It specifically addresses a new paradigm that has never really existed. Namely, inexpensive or free, and widespread distribution of copyrighted material. Prior to the world we lived in, copyrighted materials were protected by economic realities. It cost money to create and distribute infringing materials. This economic disincentive prevented mass amounts of people from infringing, and those that did, often did for profit and were clear targets for prosecution. In an era where the masses are infringing, there are no economic barriers to infringement and duplication, and it is not done for economic benefit, it lowers the value of copyrighted works to a fraction of thier previous value.
In order to overcome the current massive change in distribution that is brought about in a networked world, the question is how to maintain value in copyrighted works. One solution is to technically make it more difficult to copy those works.
However, if technological solutions can be easily circumvented, this will have no end result to the problem of declining value of copyrighted works by free distribution. Hence, the creation of a force of law to prevent the distribution of such technological circumventions.
And Voila, the DMCA.
The major caselaw here would have to do with the BetaMax case, which had the language regarding "substantial" non-infringing uses.
The major differences between the betamax case and today are two-fold, first is that the DCMA exists, is the law, and the betamax case involved significant economic investment to substantially lower the value of copyrighted works.
A technological circumvention has a SPECIFIC function above and beyond a "record" button, and an OS provided "copy" command. It's sole purpose is to provide a methodology to prevent the utilization of a technology to defeat those commands.
JK -- The DMCA undermines security, which it is supposed to protect...
Sorry this is just wrong. The DMCA protects technologies designed to defeat ordinary methods of copying. Just because a technology is weak, flawed, etc, does not mean that it doesn't fulfill it's primary purpose. To prevent ordinary methods of copying and distribution. What the DMCA prevents is dissemination of information regarding circumventing a specific technological implementation.
All of the above aside. I am NOT a supporter of the DMCA. I believe that the law *is* fundamentally abhorrent to basic citizenship rights of education, discovery, reverse engineering, publication, and the right to not only speak, but to be heard.
The interesting question, though, is if NOT the DMCA, than what? How do we protect the economic value of copyrighted works in a world of "free" copying and distribution? If we can't, it can be argued that we will be living in a world where there is LESS significant contribution to the artistic and intellectual advancement in the world.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/2001 0730/aponline173608_000.htm
A reporter, Vanessa Leggett is being held without hearing, in contempt of court, at the FBI's behest, in Texas. The specifics of the charge and even the name of the JUDGE who issued the order is being kept secret, and her attorney was threatened with jail even for speaking out about it.
If we aren't over the line of federal tyrrany already, we are getting damn close.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
It's the same in the US: fellatio, sodomy and cunnilingus are illegal in many states, yet acts between consenting adults are rarely prosecuted. One southern state (can't remember which one) even banned inter-racial marriage until late last year, a law that was (sensibly) not enforced.
Is due to the media being unaware of the situation? It may seem farfetched, but has anyone attempted to contact the media about this matter?
Dumbass, :~)
The DMCA doesn't protect the Coca Cola secret formula. It protects the technology that protects the Coca Cola secret formula from being circumvented. In other words, don't you dare cut the top off that can, you gotta be sure to lift the tab and then bend it back.
Crowded elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Now that that's off my chest... Laws is laws and it's far from unusual for the FBI or other Feds to try out a tactic, whether its bugging a mafia son's keyboard or arresting a foreign programmer (just to make up a couple purely hypothetical examples) just to float the idea and see how it plays in court. But my question for anyone with a little real legal knowledge is, why has no bail been set? When is he going to be indicted before a grand jury? How the hell long can they keep him in that Las Vegas jail without, you know, doing something definite? Since we routinely let murderers and rapists out on the street on unjustifiably puny bails, what exactly is the danger of letting this guy out on bail while they figure out how embarassing/politically damaging it's potentially going if they wind up getting the DMCA overturned and have to apologize to Russia for detaining their citizens unjustly in the same fiscal year as it becomes clear that the FBI is basically a lending library for sensitive information and expensive gadgets? Are they afraid he's going to write some really bad code? Can't they just hold his passport if they're afraid he'll leave the country? What the hell are they up to?
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
2) Even allowing your imperfect analogy, consider the reverse-engineering issue. Say I take a coke and run it through the gas chromatograph and come up with a formula that's equivalent: I strongly suspect that to win a hefty lawsuit Coke would have to convincingly demonstrate that my publication of their trade secrets had caused a loss in revenue - thus would the damages be determined.
There is a term for arresting someone because you think they are going to cause a crime: it's called prior restraint and it's unconstitutional. That is just one of the reasons why the DMCA IS something new and SHOULD be thrown out.
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Let's be honest here, if you were producing a commercial media distribution programme, would you use ROTT or any of it incarnations? This should provide insight to those with similar intrests in mind: The simplier the hack=the dumber you look.
_ )[20]&48){D=89;_=unqb24,qT,@
b=map{ord qB8,unqb8,qT,_^$a[--D]}@INC;s/...$/1$&/;Q=unqV,qb2 5,_;H=73;O=$b[4]>8^(P=(E=255)&(Q>>12^Q>>4^Q/8^Q))> 8^(E&( F=(S=O>>14&7^O)
^S*8^S>=8
)+=P+(~F&E))for@a[128..$#a]}print+qT,@a}';s/[D-HO- U_]/\$$&/g;s/q/pack+/g;eval
Infact, it's not all that difficult to procure more complex hacks.
s''(insert dollarsign here and remove these parantheses for legal reasons referring to machine parsability...D* the DMCA)/=\2048;while(){G=29;R=142;if((@a=unqT="C*",
"Yeah...it was the numbers that were irrational, not the murderous cult of vegetarians...." -- Hippasus of Metapontum
A quick search on the New York Times Web site turns up five stories since July 18, six if you count the Lawrence Lessig essay mentioned by Katz. This story maybe hasn't been covered as much as you would like, but to say that it's being grossly underreported or ignored by the news media. If you're looking for coverage of the story on the local news, don't hold your breath. They're too busy with stories about lost kittens and "news you can use." TV news ignores a lot of important stories, not just this one.
Doesn't the situation remind anyone of Atlas Shrugged? The corporations behind the DMCA are Orren Boyle, and we, dear friends, are John Galt, d'Anconia. Dimitri is Hank Rearden.... ...
May the end be as it was in the book
-Shaunak.
If he were in India, and were unlucky enough to be arrested, he would probably be held for a period ranging from 2 weeks to 3 years (depending on the state he lived in) without trial/bail. This isn't because there are laws permitting this or anything such. It's just that the judicial system here cannot cope with the massive volumes of civil and criminal cases. Besides, the police are very corrupt. :-))
Just posting this because although he's being screwed, you guys have it quite good.
There are thousands of undertrials languishing in jails in India without a bail hearing. My country is pathetic when it comes to justics.
(OTOH, we don't have a DMCA yet
-Shaunak.
Remember the sequel to Revenge of the Nerds? All the nerds went on strike, and there was no electric power, no gasoline, and nobody to run their computers.
If anyone out there is working on the servers that support NBCi or any of the other big media websites, next time the server crashes, just say no!
Without nerds the telephone system won't function, the U.S. will be at our mercy!
Too busy staying alive... ~ R.A.
--
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Absolutely no connection. The explicit lyrics tag is a tool to *help* parents shield their kids from adult content. The music industry and artists started screaming "censorship" because such a huge portion of the audience of affected titles are teenagers. I don't have kids, but when I have them, I'd like for stores to back up my decision not to give Little Timmy "Straight Outta Compton" :)
Bizarro Earth: Where a talented engineer who has been imprisoned by a repressive USA government longs to return to Russia so he can be free. Could any of us imagined this scenario 15 years ago?
-Patric
I don't have the links handy, but there was a New York Times (print) article on the situation, also posted on the web, as well as several articles on CNN.com. Even the free Dmitry protests were covered, at least by CNN.com but elsewhere I think.
Given that this isn't exactly a murder/rape situation, I think the story has been very well covered. A lot of people read the New York Times. What kind of coverage do you want exactly?
The Guardian, a left-leaning British newspaper, has had just two stories on Sklyarov (as far as I can see). One of them is here. This will probably tell Slashdot readers nothing new, but the journalist's own page has various interesting Sklyarov links, including to the Powerpoint file of his Defcon presentation.
"Producing a product doesn't mean you're entitled to make money from it, "
Noone is suggesting that either, but you ARE protected by law from people stealing from you.
"If a company goes out and produces a bad product and doesn't make money because no one is willing to buy crap, this is the free market working."
A free market is where people can choose between several products, not where people can hack some products. Not the same thing.
"Adobe has been producing a crappy product . People/corporations have been paying for this product."
Thats a deal between Adobe and those companies/people, noone else. If it's a crappy product you are always free to go somewhere else, but it doesn't make it right to sell cracker software.
"When someone comes along and shows that the product is a piece of crap, "
He wasn't arrested for pointing out a flaw, he was arrested for selling software that breaks their product.
"it's expected that there will be a major reduction in the amount profit for Adobe. There's nothing wrong with Adobe losing money over something that was (ultimately) their fault."
There is nothing wrong with Adobe losing money on the fact that people chose other alternatives. But it is wrong that they are losing money because people ARE USING their product but don't pay.
If you had at least three months notice, would you attend a march on Washington to protest the DMCA, alert the world to Microsoft FUD attempts, and generally make the world aware of open-source-ish issues?
Miko O'Sullivan
Miko O'Sullivan
Let's not abuse the phrase by definition. Humans may always be subjective, but that's now the definition of the word human... unless you can show a dictionary entry that says otherwise.
Miko O'Sullivan
Miko O'Sullivan
As have I... in fact, I've been trying to get an appointment with him (BTW, my congressman is Rick Boucher).
I'd really like to see more political activity in the open-source community. We need to realize that the powers-that-be aren't going to listen unless we organize.
<PETTY-RANT>It would have been nice if Slashdot had not rejected my ask-slashdot submission asking if people would like an open-source rally in DC. I think a lot of readers here would have wanted to talk about that concept.</PETTY-RANT>
Miko O'Sullivan
Miko O'Sullivan
That is not generally the case. This issue usually comes up in immigration cases. The US does treat non-citizens rather differently from citizens in some areas of its legal system.
That is only one aspect of due process. It remains to be seen how this will be applied in other areas.
Did he attempt to profit financially from the public revelation of his discovery? Did he attempt to profit in ANY fashion by creating the process in the first place? Did he attempt to extort profit from Adobe as a sale or promise not to release it publicly? Did he attempt to damage or cripple any portion of Adobe's infrastructure? Did he in any way, shape or form attempt to harm AND/OR profit by what he had to say in a convention for hackers? The answer to all the above questions is: No. If this answer is true (which it is, according to the information released about this cluster-bomb of a situation), then the appropriate response would NOT have been to have him arrested, but for an Adobe representative to approach him with a offer to become a short-term consultant and to teach the Adobe software and encryption designers about his discovery. Quicker, more efficient, and in the long run much cheaper than spending hundreds of dollars a day to keep him locked up...illegally, I might add, in THIS country! Has anyone forgotten due process and the rights of the accused? Hmmm?
"Courage is being afraid to do the Right Thing, and doing it anyway."
It's a big story because it's happening in the USA and not in the backwater where you're from.
Stanford law professor gave cogent reasons DMCA was broken from a purely legal perspective. Don't know if Slashdot picked up on it. But it is certainly still in the news.
I'm no expert here, but most EULA's have a clause about not reverse engineering the software. In order to break the encryption he had to have installed the software first. By installing the software, he agreed to the EULA, then broke it. I don't agree with his arrest, but it seems legally sound, even without the DMCA
do not read this line twice.
Firstly, I have to say that I am not often impressed by the writings of JonKatz. I find them whiny and hysterical, but most importantly, poorly researched. They don't live up to the standards of what one would expect from a staff writer of an important publication such as Slashdot. His articles rarely do anything more than preach to the choir, rehashing the beliefs of a majority of slashdotters, rather than exploring the issues in detail and challenging widely-held assumptions -- which would make for MUCH more interesting reading (and discussion).
On the other hand, the JonKatz bashing has gotten out of hand. A typical rebuttal to a JonKatz piece can be summed up as "You Suck". These sorts of people should be introduced to the part of the User Preferences page where you can exclude stories by specific authors. Either that or they should be a little more creative and thoughtful and less infantile in their posting.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
hello all, Just a thought. Maybe it is a good idea to befriend a reporter before engaging in these types of activities. Let the reporter do the talking and act as a technical advisor, protected by journalistic ethics. Agreed, this sucks, but maybe it is the way to go. If you are hungry for the attention yourself, become employed at a magazine or newspaper as a volunteer reporter. They will print the story, and you will get your recognition, you just won't get paid for it. l8, neilio
I love the warning label on the G&R 'Use Your Illusion Album:'
Warning: this album contains language that some people may find offensive. They can f**k off and go buy something in the new age section.
The truth will out, always.
-- This post is about truth, beauty, freedom, and above all things, Karma
Why should the public care about an unknown programmer kept in jail for an obscure reason for a whooping two weeks, while you and the slashdot crowd, don't seem to even care about the innocent people in the death row, who are regulary freed (about 5 per year) after years, or dozen of years ? Not to mention those who are actually executed.
1. There's no organized opposition to the DMCA.
2. The victim here isn't a reporter, but an entrepreneur. A Russian one, at that.
3. The DMCA act itself is fairly new and not well understood. Both political parties supported its enactment. It was seen at the time as a "compromise."
It is long past time for those who love the Internet, and who understand the noxious implications of this law, to organize and get involved. That means (boys and girls) that you get involved in *politics*. You are being turned into criminals by politicians, and all you're doing is sitting there whining. How many have to go to jail before you wake up?
I don't know the answer to that question, except to say the answer is definitely "more than one."
I live in the Houston, TX metropolitan area, which encompasses a population of about 4 million. There have been no organised protests here yet, and I know that out of that many people there have to be some that know about what's been going on.
Allow me to make a wild, but conservative, guess. Let's say there are 1000 Slashdot readers in the Houston area. Let's also say that there are 49 other cities in the country that hold 1000 Slashdot readers. From what I've seen, counting all the protesters in all the cities that have seen protests on Sklyarov's behalf, their numbers total on the order of 1000. This tells me that the large majority of Slashdotters have not actually done anything, and the chances are that you yourself haven't done anything.
So if we're not doing anything, Mr. Katz is doing about the only thing he can do by preaching to the choir--because we choir members are sitting on our asses, and if we don't get up and do something, it's a sure bet that no one else in the world is going to. We are the main community who gives a damn about this particular subject, and if we sit on the sidelines while our rights and liberties get snatched from under our noses, it will probably be because we were too busy sitting in front of a screen writing smart-assed comments on Slashdot.
To any readers in driving distance of Houston: I think we should have a protest. If you think so too, mail me. Let's do it.
"Surely JonKatz is exaggerating," I thought. So I decided to see what the news media actually had to say about this story. I searched for "skylarov" on MSNBC, CNN, ABC News, CBS News, washingtonpost.com, and nytimes.com. The New York Times had one story. The rest returned no results at all.
Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
Salmon Rushdie. He wrote a book he knew would be illegal in Afghanistan (or wherever). At least they had the courtesy to come and get him. Or at least try to. But - He had it coming.
yes, we have no bananas
Perhaps the biggest media bias is anti-high-tech, and therefore anti-nerd and anti-hacker. It's no surprise they don't make this guy into a hero, or even give him as much notice as the Unabomber (who was a romantic terrorist - and mass murderer.) Never mind he opposed big techno-corporations, he's still a nerd hacker. The media can safely ignore him, or make him into a bad guy. Too bad he wasn't a black Cuban female Maoist baby boomer postmodernist celebrity, making millions from writing books on the evils of "capitalist white male amerika". The media really loves those types. Never mind millions of real Cubans live in tyranny, and millions of Americans of all colors live in poverty due to policies such as those.
IIRC Kevin Mitnick was held without bail for four-and-a-half years (Including 8 months in solitary confinement).
Which just goes to show you, don't piss off the United States Federal Government. A government of the corporations, for the corporations, by the corporations.
You know... The more I think about the more Fight Club makes sense.
First, compose it using some word processor, anything from vi to Notepad to MS word will do. Make sure the arrticle states your point in a pleasant manner, as flames and profanity hit the recycle bins quickly. Keep it short, 250 words should be sufficient. Long editorials get trashed fast.
Two: Prepare a cover letter. Include your name, phone number (home&work), address, and signiture. Phone required so that they can call you to confirm you are the actual author of the editorial. I have listed several addresses to where it can be sent:
Three: Send! Decide your submission process of either snail mail or e-mail. The 3 papers I listed above (plus another good one) can be reached at:
Letters to the Editor
The Washington Post
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
letters@washpost.com
Letters to the Editor
Los Angeles Times
202 W. 1st St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
letters@latimes.com
Letters to the Editor
The New York Times
229 West 43rd Street
New York, NY 10036
fax: (212) 556-3622
letters@nytimes.com
USA TODAY
1000 Wilson Blvd., 21st
Arlington, VA 22229
Notes: If you snail mail or fax, you MUST have a signiture on your submission, and the submission must be a printout, no hand written material. Email: Do NOT send the an editorial to multiple papers at the same time. They won't like seeing the To line having other papers listed. BCC probably wont work either. More Email: Do not send your article as attachments. Put the work in the body of the message. We don't know what the receipient will have on their machine, so send email using plaintext.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
(BTW Criminals are citizens too. And this one's crime is a bit doubtful in nature.)
There is absolutely no reason to panic.
From in dubio pro reo, now we're to in dubio pro leo. (The grammar's a bit broken, I know.)
There is absolutely no reason to panic.
In that case why dont I go and beat up the first US citizen I find over hear in the UK. As they should'nt be afforded the same rights as a UK citizen
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
Maybe he was arrested for "violating" the DMCA, kind of like Al Capone was arrested for Tax Evasion. It was a weak charge, but we knew that Al was guilty of other things. Same could hold true for Dimitri. Also, maybe the reason the media hasn't jumped on this story, is because so little facts are known about what else he may be suspected of, and they don't want to jump on a free Dimitri bandwagon if the guy is accused of espionage. Who knows?!
My opinion is that if he is in jail for a brush with the DMCA, then he needs to be let go. It's that simple.
"Dmitri Sklyarov are tossed into jail because they criticized the code, "
God, I'm tired of this old hacker retoric. If it's simple to hack something it should be legal. "I hacked the site because it was lousy security, whats wrong with that?"
With this reasoning it should be allowed to rob old defenseless ladies because it's easy.
He did after all sell software that cracked adobes propietary format.
Producing a product doesn't mean you're entitled to make money from it, the other half of the free market is that there must be people willing to buy it. If a company goes out and produces a bad product and doesn't make money because no one is willing to buy crap, this is the free market working. Adobe has been producing a crappy product . People/corporations have been paying for this product. When someone comes along and shows that the product is a piece of crap, it's expected that there will be a major reduction in the amount profit for Adobe. There's nothing wrong with Adobe losing money over something that was (ultimately) their fault.
______________________________________
______________________________________
Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I...
There was an Op-Ed piece yesterday in the NY Times by Lawrence Lessig.
The times isn't exactly outside the "mainstream" you know.
You can find the piece HERE(FrRgReq.) .
This Sig does not Exist.
Popular media will cover the things that will get the most attention. Few are reporting on this because, quite frankly, the majority of American people don't really care. News is newsworthy if someone's willing to buy advertising on the medium that reports it.
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
Put your money where your mouth is, Tandonroon.
Talk about this case and EXACTLY where the law was broken. If you are going to continue to say "but he broke the law" argument, let's see if you have REALLY studied what is happening in this case.
Let's go through it point by point. Maybe THEN you can see the reasonable doubt element behind this arrest. When you have a bit of understanding about 1) The wording of the DMCA 2)The timing of the Adobe complaint 3) how jursidiction works then any resonable person can see there are major problems with how this case is being handled by the government.
If you are going to continue putting up this idiotic one line reply, let's see that you actually know what you are talking about.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
If you want a debate, let's have a debate. Reply here and let's do it. Otherwise, stop your personal attacks and shut up.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
Flamebait? Excuse me.. how is putting up a challenge to reasoning flamebait? There must be a mod out there with very thin skin.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
but most EULA's have a clause about not reverse engineering the software
This is, of course, assumes the EULA is found to be legally binding. To my knowledge they haven't been litigated very aggressively, so that's an open question.
Also, don't forget the DMCA itself is supposed to guarantee the right to reverse engineer, even though the DeCSS ruling seems to have made that section irrelevant.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
The only news outlet that I know of that might be willing to listen about airing a DMCA debate is NPR's Talk of the Nation. For instance, today they are airing an hour about a guy that got thrown in jail for imagining a kiddie porn story and writing it in his journal. If they are willing to spend an hour on a first amendment topic like that (which is sure to get a lot of people pissed off really quick), do you think they might spend an hour on Sklyarov?
We should all send letters to totn@npr.org and maybe if there is enough people that talk about it they will do an hour about this.
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
Katz paragraph:
In April, Princeton Professor Edward Felten, an encryption researcher, received a letter from record industry lawyers warning him that a paper he was about to present at a hacker conference -- the paper described the weaknesses of an encryption system -- could subject him to criminal actions under the DMCA. Felten withdrew the paper, and is now the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the DMCA on First Amendment grounds.
New York Times paragraph:
Increasingly, in the United States, this freedom has been lost. In April, for example, Edward Felten, a Princeton professor and encryption researcher, received a letter from recording industry lawyers warning him that a paper he was about to present at a conference -- it described the weaknesses of an encryption system -- could subject him to enforcement actions under the D.M.C.A.. Mr. Felten understood the threat and decided not to present his paper. Largely as a result of this experience, he is now the lead plaintiff in a lawsuit challenging the Digital Millennium Copyright Act on First Amendment grounds.
--
Aaron J. Shaver
http://aaronshaver.com/
Ok... 1) This guy has every right to expose flaws in software that could potential cause major security problems in many companies. He's exercising his First Amendment right. Fantastic. 2) This guy is openly selling copies of software that takes advantage of this security hole for a profit. Eh....don't like the sound of that. That's EXACTLY like someone finding a security hole in an Apache web server that grants you root access, and then that person makes a program that takes advantage of that security hole and helps you break into someone's computer. Not only that, but he's selling that program for a profit to people who will use it to do just that. Now, doesn't that seem a bit odd? I'm not saying the US gov't is looking much like a knight in shining armor right now, but you can't even pretend that this guy was *Just* exercising his first Amendment right. That's just like someone shooting a guy, and claiming he has the right to bear arms. Same thing here, just because he has the right to talk about the flaws, doesn't mean he can engage in an illegal activity because of it.
This kid broke an UNCONSTITUTIONAL law. Next time it could be you.
******
Matthew Lovelace Graybosch
******
"What makes you think I care about your opinions?"
is that i have not been able to figure out if he actually sold or made available any of this software _while in usa_.
if so, well, little sympathy. when in rome...
if not, i'm planning on _never_ visiting again.
i am pentium of borg. division is futile. mathematics is irrelevant. you will be approximated.
united states nuclear device terrorist bioweapon encryption cocaine korea syria iran iraq columbia cuba
The only way that this will not turn into a "Free Kevin" is if the Russian government demands that Sklyarov be released and allowed back to Russia. But as I see it, he will more then likely be in jail for the next 5 or so years just as Kevin was, to be made an example of. We need to do something quickly.
From my point of view, it's very simple.
Adobe and countless other "traditionally-run" companies are threatened by the fact that in theory, there is no such thing as an impenetrable system.
At the same time, these companies have the need to ensure that they get paid for what they develop; the problem with digital products is that, as they're composed of numbers as opposed to atoms, they can be copied and redistributed extremely easily. They aren't like, say, a bottle of coca-cola. I can't make two bottles from one bottle.
If companies don't get paid for the software they produce, they can no longer sustain the process of developing new software. Same goes for movies and, to a lesser extent, music. At the same time, since digital media can always be reproduced, the threat of 'piracy' is very high. And very few people pay for what they know they can get for free. Unless there is a law that bans it, that is...
The DMCA is an attempt to redefine copyright laws and have them protect digital media. The problem is, since it was lobbied for by the companies which most benefit from it, there are tons of workarounds and loopholes which benefit these companies. Example: if I have an mp3 on my computer and don't own that song on a commercially-bought CD, it's wrong. On the other hand, if I write a novel on Microsoft Word, Microsoft is entitled to use it (read the fine print in the EULA... oh wait, nobody does).
The principal problem is that in computing, to make something better, you first have to break it. Companies have neither the resources nor the time to put out something failsafe (remember nothing's 100% secure), so they need to have the safety net of "if you touch it, the law's going to get you". On the other hand, in the interest of producing something better, they need help in breaking their own programs in order to fix them. Skylarof did just that. The Princeton professor did just that (a workaround to the digital watermarks in secure audio files). No malice, just reminding the companies that they aren't infallible.
Skylarov's imprisonment is outrageous. It's contrary to progress, and, from my point of view, is an example of a relatively good initiative being manipulated to benefit the greedy.
In all seriousness, what's to be done about this? To say that i'm unfamiliar with the law is an understatement, and I'd like to know what to do if this sort of hammer gets dropped on me, or how to help somebody else in a similar bind. Any suggestions?
"I mean, look at a gun (or a picture of one, i certainly don't have any lying around). Do you see many other uses for it, besides fatally injuring someone? "
Preventing somebody from fatally injuring me ?
It is deemed "un-newsworthy for Joe Public" because it doesn't flatter America's image of benevolent impartiality. Can you imagine a truly accurate headline about this ever being published in mainstream media? "Entertainment Industry Lobby Puts Constitution on Ropes", or maybe "Corporate Power Flexes Muscles: New Laws to Box Citizens In Begin to Bite", or why not, "Life Under Corporate Rule: What Can Ordinary People Expect?"
Really, yours is the most subtly deceptive reasoning because it infers that a "conspiracy" is required to silence dissident voices. In actuality, the people who write for these publications are only there because they have kissed the right asses. If they were any threat to write something rational or honest they would have been sniffed out long ago and had their access to power stripped from them.
Think you're hard enough to handle the truth? Try here.
WARNING: You're not gonna like it.
Proteus7
"Go to any elite university and you are usually speaking to very disciplined people, people who have been selected for obedience. And that makes sense. If you've resisted the temptation to tell the teacher, "You're an asshole," which maybe he or she is, and if you don't say, "That's idiotic," when you get a stupid assignment, you will gradually pass through the required filters. You will end up at a good college and eventually with a good job." - Noam Chomsky
"Why aren't the media covering this?" Is this a rhetorical question? If not, and you really want to know why, read this.
Is there anything you can do about it? Yes. Stop buying books, magazines, tickets to movies and the products of advertisers that buy space from Big Media. Read alternative media. Create your own books, music, movies and distribute them via independent media outlets. Freeze Big Media out of your life -- they are propagandists and don't merit your time, attention or respect. Eventually, the layoffs will start and you'll have more foot soldiers ready to jump to your side.
Proteus7
"People in power are going to try to maintain their power. That's not a very profound thought. But there's no way for them to [maintain] it, except by obedience. And obedience isn't necessary. So there's no limits to the extent to which freedom and justice can not only be defended, but expanded." - Noam Chomsky
There is going to be a demonstration outside the US embassy in London, England this friday at 1pm.
Details can be found at http://www.xenoclast.org/freesklyarov/ where you can also subscribe to the Free Dmitry UK mailing list (http://mailman.xenoclast.org/cgi-bin/mailman/list info/free-sklyarov-uk)
Obviously the more people that can attend the better, so come along.
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
Do my eyeballs breach the DMCA if I read an ebook decoded onto my screen? If I use a program that captures the image and places it on a different screen does this breach the DMCA? (IE. VNC or X) If I write program that functions as a virtual screen and saves the output to the disk do I breach the DMCA? Can I call this temporary file a "cache" so that I can claim that copying is not copying - it is caching? Where do we draw the line? Does it breach the DMCA if a person flips a bit in the memory of the computer which happens to correspond to the "flag" that the reader uses to tell it that it is ok to show the document? Suppose there are 2 or 3 or more flags? When does it become illegal. Remember IBM did this sort of trick to get windoze to run in OS/2. Was Windoze "encrypted" into the binary machine language or "coded" or "compiled"? Can we call "compiling" a form of "encryption" because the machine code sure looks ugly to me? Can we now throw programmers in jail if they look at machine code? You can draw the line anywhere you wish depending on who you are, who you represent, what you wish to accomplish and which way the wind is blowing. What it boils down to IMHO that there is NO difference between encryption and encoding other than if you know the magic it is coded; and if you do not the magic or someone claims you should not know the magic, then it is crypted. Skylarov just decoded the damn documents. There is no proof they ever were encrypted. Encryption after all is supposed to be secure. Since the methods chosen were not secure, encryption never took place. QED. How about we get this guy out of the clutches of the evil USA "justice" system and then debate the lint in our collective navels?
This would be a good point, if the "kid" had broken any laws.
One would reason that a gun is "specifically designed to break the law", IE, intentionally harming or killing another individual. I mean, look at a gun (or a picture of one, i certainly don't have any lying around). Do you see many other uses for it, besides fatally injuring someone?
Here's a better example. There are a few good FTP server programs out there, that allow you to host an FTP site on your computer, allowing people to download any file you give access to. Thousands of public FTP sites exist for the unauthorized distribution of commercial products. We don't, however, see the authors of BulletProof FTP server in jail, nor the author of CuteFTP, or BPFTP client, etc.
Logically, adobe does have the right to electronically secure their product, but judging from the "securing" they've done, they obviously didnt decide doing so was worth the investment (or got scammed by their "security developers"). Although Dmitry's software allows someone to duplicate an Ebook file (from what i understand), I beleive users are allowed (by law) to make one copy of ANY electronic media they've purchased, for archival purposes. This principal has kept websites like www.gamecopyworld.com et al in existance, simply because, although they give you the tools to defeat copy protection on the latest and greatest games, it is the -user- who breaks the law when he does so for purposes other than archival/educational, not the author for making it possible in the first place.
The "Kid"'s arrest was simply another poorly thought out knee-jerk reaction by the technology-illiterate powers that be.
I see your point here, I had (either willfully or accidentally, im not sure) overlooked the fact that he was SELLING this product. Thanks for the clarification.
::Preventing somebody from fatally injuring me ?::
right, that was the point. Although a gun has a glaringly obvious negative function, it exists because of a more subtle (yet important) positive one. The point i was attempting to communicate was that, although the D-Man's software had an obvious negative use, it also facilitated the legal reproduction of E-Book media for archival purposes, which is legal.
What I didn't realize when i had posted earlier, however, was that it -is- infact illegal to SELL the tools to do this, it's legal to give them away. So, the software tool in question is perfectly legal, he was arrested for selling it.
Break into the jail and escape with Dmitri while shouting "Give me liberty or give me death!" :)
I bet that would get a lot of media attention...
Note for those without a sense of humor (and disclaimer to prevent the FBI from storming my house): This is a joke.
Your comment makes me wonder whether you actually read through the entire article, or just saw "JonKatz" at the top and decided to post without reading.
:)
The entire point is that journalists (or those acting with journalistic intent) are not supposed to go to jail for this sort of thing. The DMCA is the only reason that he did.
Let me sum it up for you:
Weapons in Airport = OK
Figure out how encryption works = BAD
Therefore, the DMCA is bad.
You're right. Usually they walk.
See http://www.acm.org/usacm/IP/dmca-feinstein-letter. html
They of course wrote an earlier letter to AAP specifically regarding Sklyarov's arrest and AAP's statement in favor of it.
--Paul
As my original post says, there's a difference between breaking into a physical lock (that can be easily replaced) and a digital one which, once the lock's been broken, may just as well have resulted in every lock being broken. The no longer secure item is free for distribution, and it is impossible to lock it back up. Also, didn't say anything about lassiez-fair capitalism.
Never said producing a product entitles you to make money from it. OBVIOUSLY people have to want to buy it. Also, it doesn't matter if you think Adobe's products are crappy or not. The fact of the matter is that they make money from sales of their product. Demand is artificially reduced from the cracking of an encryption scheme and subsequent free distribution of the product. Furthermore, you're making the mistake of identifying the encryption scheme as part of the actual product. Adobe's PRODUCT is the eBook. Their encryption scheme acts as security personnel hired to keep an eye out for shoplifters and thieves. It has nothing to do with the product. Encryption can only be considered a product when it is the encryption scheme itself that is being sold. Better products (and not better encryption, since consumers don't care about Adobe's security) is what defines competition, and hence if another company produces a product better than the eBook, Adobe's profits should necessarily go down, not because some idiot thought he was doing the world a public service by showing people how to break Adobe's encryption.
Is this a joke?
No one is saying that "speech" is dangerous, and I'd point out that it's a low tactic to accuse someone on such a general level. What I AM saying is that there is a distinct difference between exercising one's right to free speech and dissemminating the keys to one's private property. In this situation, the distinction is blurred. Lacking the proper expertise in law and the philosophy of law, I cannot at this time propose the correct solution to the matter. However, I can point out the inherent flaw in saying that this is merely a case of someone being imprisoned for exercising his right to speak.
"Besides, their program was perfectly legal under the laws of their country."
Acts of terrorism are considered legal by certain countries. Doesn't mean it's okay to let the terrorists go free.
"It even may have served to make an illegal program, eBook reader, legal by allowing backups."
This is silly. There is nothing preventing anyone from making a "backup" of the material contained within an eBook file, save the inconvenience. You are trying to argue that the inability to make use of a near-instantaneous method of backup necessarily prevents the creation of a backup at all. It might come across as preposterous to most people, but you always have the option of retyping the text contained within your eBook.
"That is exactly why it is a public service. Luckily, millions of authors didn't start using this format, only to find that it is easily broken."
It will only be more easily broken as a result of this so-called "public service".
"Those exceptions are few and far between and must withstand the utmost scrutiny from courts that hold the First Amendment in higher esteem than you."
Don't presume yourself to know in what esteem I hold the First Amendment.
It IS too bad. However, the Ford/Firestone tragedy provides car and tire companies with a distinct lesson: if you neglect your consumer's safety in any way, you face the risk of running your company into the ground. The cost of performing recalls and settling legal disputes in situations like these far exceeds the benefits of having saved a bit of money in the manufacturing process. Such an incident can also spur increased regulation of tires and product testing. Without an incident, there can be no precedent for taking legal action.
What goes unsaid about the Ford/Firestone incident is that CONSUMERS must be intelligent buyers, unwilling to buy potentially lethal products if their safety record has not been established. It is at the consumer's own risk that he buys a brand-new SUV equipped with shoddy tires. As a matter of fact, I find it absurd how much companies are taking the blame for not having delivered an impeccable product. Given the widespread reports on airline crashes, you would think that consumers would factor the risk of crashing into their use of the airline system. So too should consumers understand the risks involved in simply buying a car, and an unproven one at that. Given the increased probability that SUVs are involved in roll-over accidents (and I've been in one), should we outlaw SUVs altogether? Absolutely not. It must always be left to the consumer to decide whether or not he accepts the greater risk to his life imposed by his voluntary purchase and use of an SUV.
The exposure of the weaknesses in Adobe's encryption scheme ARTIFICIALLY creates a situation in which Adobe's product becomes _more_ shoddy. This makes it rather questionable as to whether or not the "service" performed constitutes a public service. Under your reasoning, I can seek out the tiniest flaw in much stronger and much more widespread encryption systems, expose it (wreaking havoc on a multi-billion dollar industry), and claim that I am merely doing a "public service". It wouldn't even matter if I'm the only person alive capable of detecting the flaw. Then the question becomes, how do you go about deciding that an encryption system is "weak enough" to justify its exposure? That's an unobvious, but highly important point that most people ignore by choice or by failure to regard the complexities of the particular situation, instead making fallacious comparisons with situations that are superficially similar and yet fundamentally distinct.
Katz's argument is flawed. He tries to equate the dissemination of information that breaches the security of a company's product to reporters packing toy guns in suitcases running through airport security terminals. There's a primary difference, here. Detailing weaknesses of an encryption method already put to use by a private company can wreak havoc on their profitability. There's a good chance that many of you are anti-corporation, anti-profitability. I might remind you, however, that it's the lure of being able to turn a profit that has motivated the advancement of the computer industry, and the economy as a whole. And that, in turn, is responsible for our high standard of living (assuming you live in America).
Software, MP3's, and eBooks in non-encrypted unprotected form are all nonrival nonexclusive goods, thanks to the fact that they aren't composed of matter and can be easily copied and distributed. Nonrival nonexclusive goods are what economists call pure public goods, which are typically provided by the government (assuming there is enough public support for them) because in most cases, it is impossible for a private company to recoupe its operating costs providing a pure public good. Perhaps the only significant examples of pure public goods provided by private firms is broadcast television and radio, as they're able to sell airtime to advertisers.
Private companies typically sell pure private goods, which are both rival and excludable. This means that it is possible to withhold the product from people who do not pay, and that consumption of the product means that the product is no longer available. A cheeseburger is a pure private good because McDonald's doesn't have to give you a cheeseburger unless you pay for it, and when you eat the cheeseburger, no one else can eat the same cheeseburger.
The Digital/Information/Whatever Age introduces a new problem. We now have products, which, when left unprotected/unencrypted, are pure public goods, free for the looting, and will run any digital business venture into the ground. The solution, then, is to encrypt (or do the annoying thing and splatter advertisement all over the place).
Say what you will about documents that detail methods of cracking physical security systems. When you provide information that cracks a security system protecting a digital good, you are effectively providing access to every instance of that good, and, in addition, allowing more instances of the good to be created. Anyone can understand the implications this has for a business providing a digital good.
This is why lectures and papers that provide the information to destroy a business's financial security are so dangerous. At the very least, jailed Russian boy should have informed Adobe of the weaknesses inherent in their encryption scheme before attempting to give this information to the public domain. Furthermore, arguments that revealing the weaknesses of encryption schemes is a public service is bunk in this case, because Adobe's encryption scheme isn't in widespread use.
Some may criticize Adobe for choosing such a weak encryption scheme in the first place, saying they had it coming to them. I say, if there's someone out there capable of breaking the encryption and is willing to use that ability to break the law and ruin Adobe's financial security, then let Adobe suffer the consequences. Offering information that illustrates how to bypass Adobe's encryption creates an unnecessary catalyst for illegal activity.
Think before you cry foul, people. For the record, there's not much of a legal precedent for putting the guy in jail, and thus I think that was the wrong course of action. But getting all riled up over the First Amendment (perhaps the easiest thing in America to get riled up over) is silly. You might want to consider the fact that there _are_ exceptions to the First Amendment already, and that making provisions for a new one might be the best course of action with regards to the future of the digital marketplace.
I heard about this story on NPR the day it happened, and for the following 3 days. If you look in the right places you will find the right news.
1. Dmitry is an employee of a russian company, he was assigned the programming task
2. Under Russian law it is required that software include tools to make a backup copy-which makes Adobe's software illegal ((can't wait for adobe programmers to be arrested in Russia!))
3. The software was cleary intended for users that had already purchased an E-book legally, check the documentation at Elcommsoft's website
4. This software was distributed only is Russia, the only copies in the US were transported by individuals not affiliated with Dmitry's employers, Elcommsoft
The DMCA is ridiculous and oppressive. To quote Monty Python "Oh! Help! Look at this! I'm being oppressed!"
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Actually, if you stumbled on the Coke recipe and published it, they couldn't legally do anything to you. That formula is protected not by copyright but as a trade secret. It's Coke's responsibility to keep their secrets secret, it's not our responsibility. In any case, if the formula were protected by copyright or patent, it would have long since been in the public domain.
Mudge
In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they're not.
There was a full-page report on this case in The Observer (national broadsheet UK paper) this weekend...
He should be in jail as well under this law....his device has been used massively to copy copyrighted materials!
this discussion seems to be getting off topic, katz posted the original thread declaring the first amendment infriction that a man charged by the DMCA should not be kept in jail, "while lawyers get to slug out what ought clearly to be a civil, not a criminal, issue. "
and closes hinting that if the current Skylarov trend continues, the internet may become a very censored place
"They will have permanently altered the First Amendment and the protection it has always accorded free, controversial and offensive speech. And the Net will become a very different kind of place, not only for coders and hackers but for any person who loves the unique freedom it has offered for nearly a generation. "
too much of these threads argue the morality of reverse engineering, whereas i am not sure if that is what he was even charged for: and definitely not the purpose of the thread
basicly:
what is he being charged for exactly...
and how DOES reverse engineering adobe put someone in jail, while reverse engineering every version of doze98 that has been cracked hasn't landed everyone else in jail?
(and doesn't it seem nutz that the russian government isn't involved yet?)
"pink ones for everyone involved" -KP
Is there a DCMA defense fund setup for helping people arrested (such as this guy)? If so I'd gladly donate (provided they had documentation that they actually used the money for the stated purpose).
I'm not sure I buy the Elcomsoft story of only selling the software to "get Adobe's attention," but one thing is for sure....this is a slippery slope and this event convinced me to donate to the EFF.
I also hope the EFF spends some money educating our politicians and people in the judicial system or we are all in a great deal more trouble.
It's interesting that one of the few mentions of the case is from an organization that is associated with MS, which of course is highly supportive of the DMCA (and of revising UCITA).
this guy is russian, the software was written in russia and when written, russia has no laws that where broken by him. does that mean all of you under 21 year old americans who go to mexico and drink booze will now get arrested at the border for committing crimes that where legal in one country but illegal in the usa???
First off, the Sklyarov story *has* made it into the news, and not just in Silicon Valley. Many of the pieces are editorials, but I've even seen a couple of stories on it in the local papers. And I'm nowhere near the Valley.
While most newspapers and media outlets are owned by some big company or other (Time Warner, Gannett, Knight Ridder, etc.) that doesn't mean that there's some guy in a suit looking over every reporter's shoulder. The fact is that the Sklyarov story isn't News (with a capital N). It's not that journalists are evil (despite Hollywood's portrayals). They aren't slaves to their corporate masters. It's just not News. By this, I mean that it's not the kind of thing that most readers/viewers are going to be interested in. The average viewer doesn't know what the DMCA is; they don't know encryption from a hole in their head; they probably aren't going to empathize with a Russian, sad as that may be. Consequently, the Sklyarov issue doesn't rate very highly on the list of things editors salivate over.
I should know, I'm related to one.
And who decided it was a good idea to mod comments along the lines of "Journalists are evil" or "Corporations own the media" as insightful? Insightful comments are the ones that most people *aren't* making.
Tastes like burning! - Ralph Wiggum
I emailed him too!