Slashdot Mirror
The Timex Speedpass Watch
RedWolves2 writes "Timex Corporation is developing a watch which incorporates Speedpass technology embedded into it. McDonalds has also partnered with Speedpass with 400 stores in the Chicago area that accept speedpass. Now you can order a value meal like this "You will serve me a Big Mac Meal with a Coke!" (While waving your hand like a Jedi Knight using the Jedi Mind trick)."
"You will serve me a Big Mac Meal with a Coke!" (While waving your hand like a Jedi Knight using the Jedi Mind trick)."
How is this different than what I do already?
I am Jack's HTTP Server
Heh, user puts on speedpass watch and forgets he/she's wearing it and at a visit to a speedpass supported gas station, walks a wee bit too close to the pumps...
FREE GASOLINE! just not for YOU!
Cant imagine the MULTIPLE ways this watch could get abused.. it hooks up to your creditcard so hell, I'd rather have my speedpass on a seperate thing to make SURE nothing gets charged to it by accident!
you want fries with that?
Is this the first article with a BFA?
(Big F**cking Ad)?
Well, as long as it brings revenue is not so bad..
but ona side note.. it really did make me read the damn thing... bastard marketeers.. lol
when your watch gets "declined" at the line at mcdonalds. sad, staring at those fries, quietly asking the 15 year old in the yelow visor if you can just wave it one more time.
yes i run a goth/punk/emo porn site.
Why would anyone use this technology when micropayments and the like can be done using your mobile phone using reverse billing now (you punch in a code to your mobile and an amount gets added to your phone account) and in the future there is bluetooth.
This proprietary, system will shortly float off into oblivion like all the rest.
Reliable, Great Value Hosting: $7.95/mo 2.4G/120G
Well.. I saw a movie the other day (70s movie) where a guy goes to McDonalds and gets served in an instant. Wow. That's never happened to me. The movie was some Time Machine thing with the main characters HG Wells and Jack the Ripper. Can't remember the title.
Does the watch incorporate a timer between the time I pay and the time I get served, and start beeping (indicating I will get my meal free, and automatically reversing the transaction) when the doofus behind the counter still hasn't served me my McChicken and Fries within the time limit I specify?
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
Wouldn't these things be pretty prone to EMI?
Also.... I'm not sure if this is an issue, but what if it runs out of batteries?
Or... even better yet... what if someone makes a "speedpass scanner" and walks around a mall for an afternoon, leeching from everyone closeby.
Seems pretty exploitable...anyone have experience with these? I would imagine that having these more widespread would open them up to more problems.
-kwishot
It is a little larger then a normal Swatch and you can load it at umpteen or so ski resorts, where it can be used instead of a normal ski pass.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
When the encoding is hacked... and we all have readers, and transmitters.... I could grab codes just by shacking hands with someone. This very tech could change our whole social customs when it is taught to kids, "Don't shake hands with someone unless you know them."
I am Jack's HTTP Server
I'm not to sure on the exact specifications of the speedpass system, but it would seem to me that anything that can transmit a signal to another unit (the reader) would also, in theory, be able to transmit the signal to an interceptor. It's only a matter of time before someone thinks up a way in which to pick up the speedpass xfers and reprogram/program 'new' ones with the information from others. These watches would mean that people could snipe the information in other locations (the office... or any other place someone might wear a watch, but normally not have their speedpass button available) and not just at gas stations.
Anyone?
"It's the Law of the Universe, and I'm the sheriff." Slash-cott 2/10-2/17
"These are not the fries you are looking for"
----- Whats wrong with this picture? http://www.revoh.org:1234/whatswrong
I cant remember the exact quote but it oges something like this
....
....
because banks wanted to be secure the invented teller machines that first of all asked for a pin then took a sample of blood and scrapped skin from the back of your neck for DNA testing ending with some very personal questions about you and your family
people couldnt take it an longer so they invented the identyChip... to answer all the DNA and biometric tests and be rid of personal questions
in the end people stole the identyChips and commited faud as they had before
nice Idea but should this not be Done with something standard and low power like Bluetooth connect it up to a phone that has your equivlent IdentyChip on it
you could even order ahead through your phone and then when you got to Macky Dees(or any other shop where ques are an issue like Coffe shops and theaters) you have your order ready !
sort it out people
regards
john jones
think about it
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
You really go to McDonalds? Who the heck eats at McDonalds?
Ever try to tune in an AM radio in a car at a Mobile Gas station that employs Speedpass.
At stations sporting three rows of pumps all equipped with these infernal electro-magnetic emmision Fast Pass coils so much noise is broadcast that AM Radio becomes pure noise.
This is true even on good radios with all digital modern tuning.
Its disgusting. This crap should all be made illegal.
I have a RIGHT to receive radio without deliberate interference from abusive technologies that violate my space.
I hope people will band together to petition against these eternally broadcasting 24 hours a day illegal radio emmitters... also known as "Fast Pass sensor equipment"
Arrrrrghhhh!
I love AM talk radio... I can listen to CLEVELAND and NASHVILLE and MONTREAL clearly at night in boston suburbs in my car.
But nothing at all comes in once I drive too close to Fast Pass equipment. I understand radiation should diminish at R^3 (cube root) but geeeez these fast pass things seem more insidious and powerful than you think.
The most insidious and EVIL pulse reader passivly scans the ROM chips in 2001 tires... and does it at the us-canadian borders (soon or already).
The codes exist for product control and are readable from many feet from the tires, but the US gov uses them because Liscense plates are too easy to swap-steal-create.
And wait till they start using passive pulses to read the sub-grain-of-rice bio id rom implated originally in dogs but soon applicable for enemies of the US federal governement on probation.
Its only a few years away... just you wait.
We need to closely control this slippery slope of eroding rights and spying on our lives and destruction of our AM radio air space.
I just had breakfast there. Thought I'd give them a chance. *shrug*
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Millions do, every day. I live in Morocco, where they have the most profitable McDonalds in the world per square metre of floor space. Think low pay rates and high amounts of customers. In Morocco, try finding somewhere open to serve you food at 3.30pm when you just finished hacking your mail server and you haven't eaten since 7am. I don't eat at McDonalds every day, and never by choice but by necessity.
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
If one of these things ever gets stolen, there is literally no way to trace where it is.
No signatures... nothing.
With a credit card there are a few more layers of security.
First, it needs to be swiped (can't be read from a distance...which can be potentially bad)
Second, you need to sign for it
Third, many credit cards have the option of a picture...
Pretty scary.
-kwishot
Didn't you just type d instead of s in your IE bait's subject line (hint: the link...)
Totally Off-Topic
The fries used to be great when they cooked them in beef tallow. I had a restaurant a while back and purchased an older gas-fired deep fryer that was originally built for McDonald's; it had a pulsing burner to melt the solid fat on startup. I used the tubs of the solid white stuff. Screw the cholesterol! The fries it made were excellent, bringing back fond memories of cutting high school classes and stopping at Mickey D's on the way out.
Mmmmmmm. Beef tallow!
From what I can see from the speedpass website there is no authentification to verify that the possesor of the speedpass is really the owner. A speedpass is the electronic equivalent of a blank cashiers check to my bank account, so if I lose a speedpass I lose the equivalent of my credit card plus my pin code! Am I willing to risk this just so I can wave my wrist/keys without having to type a PIN? NO! I may be lazy, but not stupid.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
IMO, the "flash pass" wouldn't be the killer app, it would be combined with submitting your order over wireless to enable you to avoid the whole line trauma entirely. That way the lady with $5 in pennies could count them out and not bother anybody (except maybe the cashier).
Now, far be it from me to quote regulations but I do seem to recall that consumer grade devices should not legaly interfere with other deviced (but still have to accept the interference of other devices) Class B & C vs. A? It's been a long time since that class so if I'm way off here someone correct me. But in any case, this seems like a class A FCC device (if it is even regulated which it should be) that's being used in an inappropriate (read illegal) manner/location/way. (similar to the violations we hear about with the wireless networks being "boosted" and causing local interference).
Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
How about making the speedpass standard available for gas first?
In san diego there's not a single gas station that will accept speedpass.
I'm sick of things being hyped as new revolutionary and totally cool without seeing it become actually popular by public demand.
If you spend all your money funding new instances of your product standard before it becomes a standard you're in for a reality check, not a paycheck.
These people need to get out in the real world and see what it's like, not take the word of the company marketing and selling the products.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
Just get a razorblade and insert the watch into some flabby area of the body, like the cheeks or something.
Uh-oh, I give permission to each attached shop
to send me snail-spam?
Ha! When's the last time you got fast service at McDs, et al? Might as well put speedpass on your hourglass.
...you'll not only get a charge report but also a calories/sodium/fat report. Your doctor will be automatically alerted if your visit frequency exceeds 5/day or if you're likely to get RSI (aka tennis elbow or nowadays JWS (jedi wave syndrome). Your undertaker will be informed when he has to rent a crane. You mom will know you already had your share of of caffeine when you show up that sunday for coffe and cookies.
The funny thing is the same people start hyperventilating when something about an ID card is pondered upon...
Use The Source, Luke!
FastPass! Dont make me laugh. Fast food restaurants still have a hard time accepting CASH. Get McDonalds to Accept CASH (2 dollar bills) first.
Yup you heard me... for laughs I carry around 2 dollar bills with me to cause trouble at institutional minded stores and fast food empires that lack places to tuck away Half dollars, susan B coins, 2 dollar bills, and golden dollar coins. I like to force 2 dollar bills on rigid institutions.
But that is not all I do, I act like I am low on coins, hunting my pockets, then finally producing a 2 dollar bill or two to complete a purchase, avertIng my gaze "nervously".
I act as if it is a non-valid note.
Guess what? Innercity dwelling teen females usually have to go get the manager to see if such as thing (a US 2 dollar bill) is legal tender and truly act as if they have a counterfeitter standing before them.
Sometimes it causes quit a stir.
I tried using a 50 dollar bill on a 37 dollar purchase at an Arbys and had to leave my comapanys order because they refused to accept the 50 dollar bill as strict corporate policy.
Under US law all these things are valid for public and private debt so long as no more than 25 of the same coin denomination is used without mutual acceptance.
Only one business has a US federal government exception : Federal Express.
Federal Express in Los Angeles and in autonomous cities in california such as Pasadena are premitted at the FBI's insistence to deny accepting any US currency at their stores and insist on debit and credit cards only.
Other Than Federal Express, everyone else has to accept Federal Reserve notes.... but just try to get them to take a 2 dollar bill.
I think we should start with basics before getting them to use fraud prone SpeedPass.
Actually, that system was very advanced for its time. If you passed the toll station on the Køfri area without a chip in your window, two cameras digitally photograhped your license plate in normal and infrared light. Pictures were stored on MO media for evidence, and the system could react on cars passing as fast as 490 km/h.
Every mobil probably has it if you have Mobil
Mobil is in Orange County and Los Angeles County and has speedpass there.
Maybe you only buy cheap gas and are unaware of the main patent-liscense-partner on speedpass.... Mobil.
Of couse one reason to avoid Mobil other than cost is that they spend advertising dollars catering to illegal aliens and get slapped with multimillion dollar antitrust lawsuit settelements against them for collecting illegally social security numbers without proper federal authority to demand it.
So far to collect on the payout you have to produce pay statements from the 1980s that show YOu used mobil frequently in Los Angeles county.
But you are wrong...l bet San Diego has had SpeedPass for ages.
The state of Nevada has agree'd to allow speedpass to incorperate it's hardware methods of paying for bills in one of 13 new themed brothel houses. A reprisentitve from the brothel chain was stated as saying, "We feel that this partnership will allow them a chance to become a Jedi, as well as procure [sex]"
Mockups of their flagship brothel house was a mix of modern design a futuristic technology. As simulated, customers will approach the brothel store front, speek there demands and perform "Jedi magic"
One geek sweating nervously in the corner was questioned about the prospect of Star Wars themed sex. "I d-d-do believe that it will open a new avenue of adventure, being able to go to a place and say You desire my manhood, and be believed"
Computational Madness in a round package.
What if the McDonalds employee of the month responds with
"Feel the power of the dark side!"
and slashes you with his light sabre?
(sue them of course)
no sig error.
A lot of people posting here seem to be worried about interception of credit card/debit info -- as though Speedpass watches would simply beam out your account number into the open, where anyone with a scanner could pick up your info. Problems like this are easily solved with cryptography -- choose your favorite authentication protocol. Instead of sensitive account data, the watches more likely beam out a unique identification number linked to a public key directory (for authentication) and credit/debit card numbers.
Of course, none of this matters if your entire watch gets stolen, which is a far more serious security matter.
Cheers,
IT
Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.
The McDonaldization of America continues into the technological age.
I think that it's not the Jedi out there to worry about.. Rather, it's the teeps.
Remember, the Corps is Mother. The Corps is Father.
When can we use our CueCat wand to buy a BigMac?
It has a unique serial number in it already.
I am hungry.
I Want the chip in mY head so I dont have to worry about losing it.
Maybe It can take out loans for me at 19% annual rate if I am extra hungry.
Maybe it can even have Power of Attorney over my life for extra convenience.
Then I wont have to think so much. The little chip will be my big brother.
We should all use CueCat to scan things into our computers and attach it to our tvs as we are told.
Ronald is my friend.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0080025
Time After Time.
necessity?
You`ll end up fat and stupid!
...this is just an intermediate step; why not cut out the middlestep and just implant the damn thing in your wrist now? And then have the McDonald's logo tattoted on.
As they say, marketing is all about perception; if you commit a crime, you wear one of these and they call it a monitoring bracelet; I can't wate to hear what they call it ("McTracker") to get McCustomers to line of for them.
Actually, I'm not totaly opposed to the idea of an implanted chip, as long as it isn't the counter crew at McD's who have to insert it!
Why yes, Mr. Beast, I'd be glad to accept your mark! What? You say you want me to bow down before your graven image? Oh, 'tis not a problem at all!
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
'This is not the Happy Meal I ordered'
'This is not the Happy Meal you ordered!'
'You will make me a Cheeseburger Happy Meal'
'We will make you a Cheeseburger Happy Meal!'
'You will not forget the toy'
'We will not forget the toy!'
The Jedi Mind Trick surely could work wonders at McDonalds...unfortunately, at Wendy's they employ mainly Hutts.
These guys get 250.000 visitors / story, have only 10 guys working, and don't make enough money? SO we get page-filling ads? And *they* blame Microsoft????????
.page .widening .post .remove .the .ad .from .the .displayed .page, .maybe?????????????
What a bunch of linux zealots.. (.would a
Take a look at Octopus FAQ. The watch is towards the bottom of the page. Other info on use, personalisation, access for tourists, pictures on cards, etc is all on the site.
I read "Now you may be detected while ordering a value meal like this".
What if my watch is hacked ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
i guess its difficult for watch makers to keep their
business working, watches last for so long.
so they try to put every features they can in watches:
calculators,tv,gps,thermometer, radio sync,mp3player and so on
so far they all failled miserably unless for very youg boys.
this one will faill too.
fp!
Roadkill is yummy.
Their "food" will remain awful.
Looking for people to chat about multicopters, coding, music. skype: gtsiros
Imagine:
:-)
Our absent-minded friend Joe has just got a Speedpass enabled watch. The poor guy sees John when waiting for his fast food at the drive-thru.
He waves his hand and suddenly realises 10 Big Mac Combos are coming.....
So don't send this to me as birthday gift
UPDATE:
I looked on their web page and they had a search form for speedpass locations. A search for San Diego resulted in a "sorry no locations in your area" message.
After I saw the response to the parent post I went to google and found the same page, it wouldn't load for a couple min and then loaded a half page, then loaded a full page. The results were interesting after the same search:
the first gave 1 listing without any details such as address.
The second gave 5 without addresses.
the third gave 5 with all addresses.
I can only think that they have updated their page or database while I was trying to search.
There are at least 5 locations in san diego that accept speedpass.
They offer applications for speedpass free online.
) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
I think that this could be the killer application that Bluetooth has been looking for.
When you look at the number of little kids with mobiles (in the UK), arming them with mobile phones that can do micro payments would be all that.
For one, they would be able to share telephone credits, and use this technology for simple payments.
This would be an extra revenue stream for all those big mobile firms that need to recoup the billions they invested in 3g licences.... make money from the interest as people load up the cards before they use them, and charge merchants a transaction charge.
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
They do not have batteries. I'm not exactly sure HOW they work but I haven't seen anyone else explain it either and, you know, this is the net. The answer can't be that difficult.
A web google search didn't turn up much besides this. The Mobil Speedpass is based on Texas Instruments' Registration and Identification System (TIRIS), the first radio-frequency identification (RFID) device used for retail transactions. The system is similar to a remote control but different in that RFIDs transmit a user-specific signal, almost like a wireless PIN number.
But a usenet search turned up a lot, like this post. Ok, a typical device of this type is quite simple in concept. The coil with rod, acts to recieve 100Khz or so RF, which is then rectified to charge a capacitor, to power the rest. There is a small chip in there, which talks to the reader, usually by shorting out the coil for short periods of time, this causes the RF field to change, which can be read by the reader. Another way is for the chip to connect a diode to the coil, this causes the transmitter/reciever to generate a harmonic, at 2* the frequency of the exciting field, this can also be picked up.
Until they implement speedpass into the sole of my shoe and make purchases with it consists of 20 mph kung-fu kicks, I won't think any of this technology is practical or an improvement.
With all of the hype about invasion of privacy with DNA type security models, I think people are afraid of it. I really do think that this type of device really needs it though. I want a device that only works when my skin is making actual contact with it. Sure hackers will find a way around it, but could it be cracked before I have a chance to call and cancel it. DNA specific devices wouldn't have invasion of privacy issues, since only the device knows my DNA.
I rather agree with some other posters that this system will most likely be supplanted by cell phone-based systems -- mostly because phones will probably soon include location/GPS systems. Not only will each purchase be tracked, but the location as well (E911 services) -- beyond the flip side of the privacy implications, that would make theft a bit more complicated, since the police would know the exact location of the thief. Note that since the anonyminity of cash is not existant in the system, the thief has a very small window of opportunity -- if he goes anywhere with video surveilance to use the system, between the ID of the electronic wallet, and the time stamp of the transaction, he will be recorded. If he transfers money to his own account, well... not quite the Darwin Awards but...
... what happens if anonymous cash and purchases are no longer common?
Pan-handling could become a thing of the past if no one has any cash to hand out and the homeless cannot get a device to have money transferred into. Drug dealers, porn stores, bookstores, charities, political groups, gun dealers, money laundring, etc.
Would it make people spend money more easily as they have to think about it less? Just wave device/push a button?
Why rely on a battery device?
In Belgium we use (for years now) SmartCards called Proton. We have to put it in a reader, check the amount, press ok and that's it.
You can only loose what is digitally on the card. Just like loosing your wallet. The amount digitally stored is limited. Most new devices have it, most stores have it. You fill it like getting money out of the wall..
That SpeedPass sure sounds cool, but it's a little to speedy to spend money i think..
Geert
Unfortunately, since the Jedi Mind trick only works on the weak of mind, it will be useless against the McDonalds employe---oh. Wait.
Never mind.
Speedpass is a good idea, but all the consumer protections associated with a normal credit card DO NOT APPLY.
According to consumer advocates (one among them being Clark Howard in Atlanta GA) SpeedPass is bad news. If your speedpass device is lost or stolen or in any way abused you are LIABLE for ALL charges. Not so with a real credit card. According to Clark on his syndicated radio show part of the SpeedPass agreement states this (I have not seen it.) A consumer called into Clarks show and relayed that they had to pay over $4000 in bogus charges for a fleet vehicle because one of his employees had lost the SpeedPass. Clark explained to him that there was nothing he could do to help, SpeedPass is built that way. It was clearly fraud but SpeedPass, again, does not offer the protections a credit card does. BE ADVISED, NOT A GOOD IDEA.
Until these clowns step up to the plate and make SpeedPass work identically to a credit card, then forget it.
Funny? Insightful? Paranoid? Probably all of the above.
Credit cards also seemed pretty exploitable when they were invented. Hey, I bet personal cheques seemed so too. And to be fair, these things are exploited, but, people will always find a way to thieve regardless of the technology. Perhaps there is some aspect in which this technology is actually safer than plastic cards... Read the other comments for info about its security features... Hmm...
A family friend had their Mobil Speedpass stolen last week. It was to their keyring, and they had taken it in to the dealership to have the car serviced. The wife dropped the car off in the morning. She was trying to remove the little speedpass but had a hard time doing so. Since she believed it to be a fairly reputable establishment (one of the only luxury car dealers in town), she thought it'd be safe with the keys.
She was wrong.
After the husband returned to pick up the car that evening he noticed that the speedpass was missing from the keyring. He assumed that it was taken off before giving them the keys. When he got home he found out that they had taken the speedpass. They called up Mobil to report it missing, only to find out that someone had just recently used it to purchase $150 worth of items and gas. The thief even tried to use it again the next evening to buy some items, but the speedpass had already been disabled.
So, if you do get one of these speedpass items, or already have one, make sure you always carry it with you. Do not trust anyone else with it. The same thing applies for those little highway transponders that pay tolls for you-- take them off your winshield if you can. Thieves love these things since you don't have to prove your identity to anyone.
A challenge-response or public-key scheme would make a lot of sense; but if they're not using either, well ... it's going to go down very quickly when someone builds a speedpass repeater.
You said it yourself - DEBT. Until you have a debt owed to them, they don't have to take it.
So, if you start waving something odd around, they can refuse to create that debt at the outset.
Thank you, drive through.
So now I am going to have to worry about that roving band of teenage hoodlums breaking into my car to steal my speedpass so they can get their munchie fix at McDonalds?
Having a speed pass visible could get worse than having a radar detector visible. At least with those, they had to resell them to make any money. With a speed pass it is instant cash.
The Real question is, why the hell anyone would want to go to McDonalds?
Ummm, err, say what, now?
But now we can walk into a Mickey D's and watch every wanker in the restaurant waving their hands like conductors.
Believe nothing -- Buddha
This is why everybody (not just the bishops) should all have scanner codes tattooed on the back of our necks.
Believe nothing -- Buddha
Where is the funding behing Speedpass? Is it from Exxon?
After the Exxon Valdez disaster in 89, I swore never to buy gas from Exxon again. However, since the merger with Mobil, it's almost impossible not to. It seems as though all the major gas stations are now Mobil. I'm not sure I would want to further extend their reach by using their speedpass device also.
Live web cams
Great! Now I'll be able to buy speed faster than ever! I may not even have to stop the car - just lower the window and my man can toss it in as I roll by.
I can't wait until weedpass comes out next year!
This sounds great, just so long as they use it to track my every movement. I'm getting sick and tired of friends, family, and government agents not knowing where I am every second of my life.
Thank you Speedpass!
Anything you can do, I can do meta.
Wow. Now we are going towards the no touch purchasing. People will forget the old times when you got bacteria from someone else's cash. Now you don't even need to hand the myour credit card! What else? Yes! Beyng employed at home, and et voila', we will ever see someone else we don't like (or even nobody at all) anymore.
Who's going to wear a _Timex_ just to buy stuff?
I do this to gas stations all the time.. 50's and 100's.... ESPICALLY at places that have big signs stating they don't.
,and the police told the moron-manager that he has to accept my payment or I can leave with his gas legally for free (Michigan, refusal of payment equals elimination of debt.... It's a fun state!) usually the manager get's all pissy that I challenged and defeated his/her silly power trip.
it's fun, the gas is in my tank, I pay a 35.00 gasoline charge with a 50 and they try to refuse it..
I ask them to please call the police, as I only have a 50 and a 100 and they are going to accept my legal tender payment.
Only one has the cops actually been called
and I end the transaction with "See you next week!"
and they said back in high-school that I didn't get along with others well.....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
You are my hero. I would try this if I had an SUV or some way to get to about 35 bucks out of a 50. Hilarious.
(That is, unless the ladies take SpeedPass too!)
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
They thought of that! Every single Mobil has a live sattelite link.
all charges instantly propogate. If a speedpass moves to fast in geometric space, or too frequently used, spoof is detected and disabled.
Your crack idea only works when all the satellites are not active... and they are always active, at least at rollout.
however if you built a receiver of the emission created when the device is pulsed and captured radio data at 121kHz through 134.2 kHz, you could then LEGALLY build a signature database of all speedpasses and their primitive challenge response logic ladder.
Nothing to crack unless you are merely trying to make bogus unlisted speedpasses with correct checksum and digital crypto signature.
Its called snagging or lifting and is popular in LA county to the tune of several million dollars of fraud last year from credit card/debit card intercepts.
the natural extension is SpeedPass.... if the FCC does not ban them for damaging AM reception first.
At my local drug store, they don't bother to ask for a signature for purchases under $10. I was told it was for convience. Whatever. Of course, they never checked the signature with my driver's license or even the back of the credit card so I could sign pretty much any way I wanted to.
Point of that rambling, is there isn't anything more secure about using a credit card at the gas pump (or this particular store) than a speed pass. In my case, showing up at the gas station means wearing full motorcycle gear and the speed pass I attaced to my jacket sleeve saves me about a minute of fussing with zippers and gloves and other saftey gear.
What if someone is just walking by the speedpass machine either at a gas station or the McDonalds and they get charged for someone elses gas? Although..this idea may be safer than the current speedpass, since they relatively easy to lose or get stolen (such as where you get your car repaired etc..). I think the ideal speedpass watch would incorperate some sort of fingerprint technology so you can confirm your purchase, or since current speedpass technology doesn't support that, have some sort of safe guard to activate speedpass technology on the watch everytime you make a purchase with it.
Let's just hope users remember to take their watches off before they visit any "special" cinemas..
Wow ! You're a complete twat !
I will KICK YOUR ASS !!!
Since these oases usually have a food joint and a gas station, I suggest they advertise with the slogan:
Eat here and get gas.
I know it's old, but hey it's Mickey D's.
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.
McDonalds is disgusting filth.
If the sheep wanna get radio collars so they can more easily obtain the advertised special -- fine.
I missed the mention of the real reason this "SpeedPass" is being developed.
It's not to speed us consumers along -- it's to speed the transaction up.
Removing the human cashier speeds the exchange and reduces labor costs.
If McDonalds/Mobile could have stations/"restaurants" with no human operators -- they would.
I happily spend more at local establishments, doing my part to fight the McDonalds plague.
Seriously, if you have kids, don't let them eat that shit.
Dirt doesn't need luck.
in Hong Kong, they have been using the "Octopus Card" for the past 6 or 7 years. It's actually really cool because you can go to the subway station and get one. It is a standard magnetic card that you could use for subway, City buses, vending machines and I believe they had a couple of stores that had them. They started to market the Octopus watches for kids so they won't lose it (as public transportation in HK is a huge business). It would really be nice if we had a system like that here. From the way things look, we may be up to speed in a few more years!
but more a sign of how convenience.has won over modern society. More people will eat at McD's because it's now faster than anything else, choke up on their fries and Big Mac, and the country as a whole gets five pounds heavier and less healthy overall.
Neat idea, but I'll pass, thank you.
LV
Woot w00t w007.
Using a Jedi Mind Trick (tm) on a McDonald's cashier? Isn't that like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer?
Are speed passes passive? (they have got to be) What ranges do they respond at? 6" 1 foot?
.. a couple of guys/script kiddies .. laptop .. crowded mall. ransiver plugged in .. and downloading speedpass id # .. buy stolen speedpass.. reprogram .. wala .. free gas and burgers!
I can just see it now
Thanks to your mind-numbingly boring posts I have stopped using MSIE and have begun to use Mozilla as my default browser. I would not have switched browser if it weren't for your posts and I am very happy that I did as I rather like Mozilla. Thank You.
BTW: *OT* is that an advert at the top of this page??? WTF???
-----------------------
Moderator's essentials
I love $2 bills and $1 gold coins. I hope they quit printing $1 bills.
I noticed all the mcdonalds around here have speedpass in the drivethru lanes, but aren't most people going to have their speedpass on their keychain as they are driving? Seems completely useless to me...
That's great -- I can't wait for them to put those speedpasses in the Ironman triathlon watches, so that the fat slob wearing it can get his greasy Mcdonalds big mac and fries 10 seconds faster than his previous record... :)
...
Ha ha
Its the mark of the beast!!!!!!!! :-p
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
How hard is it going to be for someone to figure out how these things work and start making their own? If the information is passed simply by waving these cards in front of a reader... they can't contain THAT much information, what if someone gets a hold of one of these readers and starts walking by people on the street recording their speedpass numbers or whatever and learns how to duplicate these? It's only a matter of time before someone tries this, and it doesn't sound like these things have alot of protection stopping some 16 year old from walking into a store and buying shit on your account.
The utility vs. security of the Speedpass has baffled me right from the start. Speedpass was a technology developed by Esso (Exxon) to be used at its gas stations. Soon after, another gas station company here in Canada, PetroCan, developed its own proprietary version of the technology. At the outset, it appeared that the two technologies wouldn't interoperate, and I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise.
/or/ a Petrocan station). So the trade is a (little) extra speed (since you can swipe a card at the pump, too) for the ability to only use it in one or two places.
What we have then, is something that is effectively a (faster) credit card, except that the credit card only works in one place (namely, an Esso
Moreover, the security of the Speedpass is minimal -- less so than even our credit card system. And who knows how good/fast Esso will be at deleting your account when you tell them your Speedpass has been stolen.
To me, it seems like they're trying to get (gas) brand loyalty. Here in Canada (different than in the US), gas quality at different stations is essentially the same (due to regulatory bodies); thus, brand loyalty is a myth when it comes to gas -- I just see who gives me the cheapest gas on the day that I need it.
Yes, but do we really need a plethora of new, similar, but incompatible hardware to do the same thing? Some pumps take Speedpass, some take Magikwatch, some take CrazyWand, MickyDees takes one but not the other, Burger King takes the other but not the one. Suddenly I have a hundred watches and wands and cards and strips on my keyring and this is supposed to be convenient? Why can't we just make standard improvements to a standard credit card?
God forbid I go to a machine that takes all these furbies...
Lies about crimes
People seem worried about randomly beaming their finances around. Besides encrypting it, wouldn't a simple on/off switch be a safe answer? On - beam away. Off- No beam. Even better you need to hold the button down in order to transmit.
True if you lose your watch or get mugged your screwed but that is not that different than if you lose your wallet. Besides this is hooked up to a credit card. If your credit card has credit protection than you won't have to pay the charges.
As far as hacking goes . . . every lock can be picked. From your desktop to your front door. I don't not have a front door for fear of it being picked. I just take the reasonable precautions necessary.
I'm not saying this is a good idea. I'm just saying it's not a bad one.
-- No Comment
I would think that the fine would not be for speeding -- more like "unauthorized operation of an aircraft on public roads".
TyZone
I use Speedpass to buy gas and it is awesome.
My only complaints are:
- I can't use it to open my house's front door
- I can't use it to start my car
- I can't use it to make small purchases at grocery stores, drugstores, etc (sounds like this may be coming soon)
I love simplification and carrying less crap around. I know others have legitimate privacy concerns and for you I say this: do not use this technology.
Reader expense is a small part of the expense of a total solution. If you look at this page you will see that the buttons themselves are more expensive than the readers. Also the buttons are much more expensive than comparable smart cards. I can buy Java Card Open Platform cards for $2.86 and there are 16 kbyte (not kbits as the iButton measures things) MFC cards for less than $1. If you are doing a deployment the cost of the cards will dwarf the cost of readers.
(I prefer my ring)
What do you use it for? Do you wear it all the time?
Disclaimer: I work for IBM so I might be biased.
Lasers Controlled Games!
heh heh. All I can picture right now is Nelson grabbing Milhouses arm, waving it and saying "Stop paying for my lunch, stop paying for my lunch". But I guess simpsons humour is wasted on you Futurama folks.
Help find a cure for cancer!
I hope Seven-Eleven gets these readers. Maybe it would speed up all those bonehads desperately buying lottery tickets. Heck, they could even stick 'em in a corner with slot machine levers with readers next to them, so that their watches wave by as they pull. That way I could get my twinkies faster.
The cost of theft is already nicely passed along to the consumer. These companies dont much care about that.
In any event, this is just another form of the mark of the beast, and I will not comply! >:(
Browsing on Speedpass' own website, it appears that there is NO security other than needing physical possession of the "speedpass" device. (Their "Question and Answer" section specifically states that you don't even need to type in a PIN number)
So...who's going to be the first to build a directional "Pringles(tm) Can" antenna to record SpeedPass exchanges, and publish schematics for programmable speedpass "emulators"?
The only way I'd consider bothering with this is if I could get a "buffer" account to tie it to, and dump, say, $50 in it at a time from my real account (so that if my "Speedpass" gets stolen and is used before I have a chance to transfer the money back out of the "buffer" account, I wouldn't be able to lose more that $50 or so...) Tying it to a Credit Card just seems completely insane to me, especially since other posts say that YOU are liable for unauthorized charges on the thing...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
Some McDonald's in the area accept EZPass, but I don't think they do Speedpass around here.
EZPass is tied to your credit card, too, but it's 'mounted' in your car and so precautions against getting your car broken into prevent your EZPass from getting stolen, too.
As far as recovering a stolen EZPass tag, if someone uses it (or goes through a toll without covering it with the anti-RF mylar), you'll know where they are and when. And there's surveillance at toll points.
Question: EZPass has recently asked me to send in my tags for an 'upgrade:' Anyone know what they're upgrading?
I have a RIGHT to receive radio without deliberate interference from abusive technologies that violate my space.
Now, I realize this was an attempt at humor, but. . . Sorry, Charlie, there is NO right to receive, only to transmit. And as for your "space", it's on the private property of the gas station, i.e., it's THEIR "space". God forbid you pass under a high-tension line, or even metal sign overheads significantly degrade AM radio tranmissions. .
I just get tired of EVERYTHING being put in terms of "rights". You have a PRIVILEDGE of recieving radio transmissions, assuming the propagation environment is favorable and you have the proper equiptment. . .
I know the post office carries the one dollar coins, but where do you get the two dollar bills?
It's already been said, but I think I love you. I have a problem with authority myself, and I love to tweak people 'within the rules' as much as humanly possible.
It would make more sense for McD's to start taking debit/credit cards first.
I never have cash on hand, and it's wasteful to pull out $20, along with the usual ATM fee just to buy a couple of cheeseburgers.
In Morocco, try finding somewhere open to serve you food at 3.30pm when you just finished hacking your mail server and you haven't eaten since 7am.
You can't find a restaurant open at 3:30pm in Morocco? Why? Does the entire place close up for Siesta or something?
How hard would it be then to set up (say) my door locks at home to use my SpeedPass thinger to unlock my doors? Two less keys to carry around, and if I had my hands full, I could stick whichever pocket it's in close to the door to unlock (even open).
It works just as well for $15 debts of gasoline as well. Nobody says you have to carry around $20 bills you know. Now, if I had nothing but $50's and $100's to pay for shit with I wouldn't be complaining either. :-)
You can almost see the F*ckedcompany.com postings gearing up already, can't you?
How many debt/prepay instruments do we need? I've already got four credit cards in my wallet, each of which promised something fabulous, two ATM cards (one for each bank) and a handful of shopper cards.
Can't I just pay cash?
OBLIGATORY SLASHDOT PARANAOIA BAIT: Hey, did you ever think that they are TRACKING YOUR PURCHASES?!?!? MUHUHAHAHA!
Even worse, some of these RF tag systems interfere with RF-tag auto key security systems. Ford warns that the Mobil system can interfere with their car keys, if the Mobil tag is on a keychain. These gadgets need to have a random delay before they respond, to make collisions manageable.
Seems that there is already some organized Speedpass theivery going on in the valet world. Give your key chain to the attendant, and he swaps your speedpass with a disabled or broken one. You'll never know until you try to use it. Worse, if they just want to mess with you (or frame you), they just swap yours with someone else's. Probably wont be very easy to convince the authorities that you didn't steal it yourself.
so i had a speedpass a while back when i worked for mobile. it was very conventient, i filled up when i left work.
one day i very carefully used some fingernail clippers to open one of those suckers up and remove the glass 'pill' inside. i put it onto a peice of duct tape, which i then folded over. finally, i ripped a small section of my jacket cuff open, and stapled in the speedpass peice of duct tape. after mending the jacket i could then just put my hand up to the speedpass pump tranceiver and get gas.
the thing worked beutifully until i took a spill and broke the speedpass bits. but it was very nice to have that there, very low profile.
A good way to avoid accidentially getting charged for other people's items (which is still unlikely because of the proximity required to the sensor) would be to make it only active while you held down a button. Point watch at sensor, push button on side of watch. That way it couldn't be activated accidentally.
This is probably why they sent out quick release keychain clips a while ago and recommended removing your Speedpass from your keychain before giving your keys to a valet. Of course, I wouldn't trust a valet to park anything more valuable than an old pair of running shoes...
Can someone explain this for the non-Americans? I'm curious... Are $2 and $50 notes/bills rare or discontinued or something? Or is it that cashiers dislike giving change from a $50?
I will now run it through the dishwasher to get the grit off and I will report back here!
Lasers Controlled Games!
You wouldn't be related to this guy, by any chance.
Why is there a need to replace credit cards. I dont find it any slower to swipe my CC at gas pumps. Its not *that* much slower to swipe CC's at stores either. I think the transponder idea is great for highways (Maine and Massachusetts both have this), as I have used both and they tend to be great time savers. Maine actually charges less for tolls if you use this system. I think it is a great idea, considering they dont have to pay a toll-keeper to collect your money. All I ask, if that stores have CC swipes and my life is easy enough. Thats about as close to avoiding paper cash as I need.
Speedpass is actually very convenient. You should take the keys out of your car when you are fueling anyway so that means you don't have to fish around for a credit card, swipe it, wait for authorization, select if you want a receipt, etc. With Speedpass all those options are preprogrammed.
In the event that you lose your Speedpass you are not liable for the charges. Honestly, you should at the very least read the webpage before you make things up. If you are really paranoid, just link the Speedpass to your Exxon or Mobil gas card, then noone will be able to compromise your real credit card. There is some directionality to the Speedpass so just walking down the street with a transmitter will not enable you to read everyone's speedpasses. If you wanted to get technical, with the right equipment you could read magnetic strips in peoples wallets walking down the street.
http://www.speedpass.com/security/index.jsp
Revelation 13:16-17
16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
That would be a problem, if you are trusting (read: oblivious) enough to give the valet your entire keyring. Think about it, would you give a total stranger all your keys (including your house key) when you know they can look in your glovebox and find out where you live? I had a friend who's house got broken into because a valet stole the code from his garage door opener (think about that next time you have a valet park the car for you).
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Downtown San Diego Exxon right next to the I-5 onramp and the Holliday Inn (Front Street?) has one.
...And it passes information on how much you spend, what you spend it on, and where, all back to a central database quicker than you can say "Telemarketer!"
Security and theft issues aside -- Am I the only one to see the potential for abuse of the purchasing data collected? I don't give a rip what Speedpass's privacy policy says. The temptation to sell out to marketdroids is, IMO, just too strong.
I can just picture this same technology getting embedded in a national ID card. One card for everything, God help you if it gets stolen. What a bonanza for muggers...
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
There were reports circulating here in California a year ago or so about valet parking attendants not just stealing the SpeedPass devices, but *swapping* them for another one (probably stolen). Nothing was missing, so you wouldn't notice -- until you went to fill up your car.
I don't know what notice you'd receive from the pump, but you might just assume your SpeedPass was broken or something. Days or weeks could go by without you really being concerned and bothering to call about it. And the chance that you'd make a connection between valet parking your car a few days ago and a swapped SpeedPass (assuming you even discovered it was swapped) are slim.
This doesn't really seem to be a big concern for a SpeedPass watch, but it was an easy social hack for the SpeedPass key-ring jobs.
Just ran it through with the dishes with detergent. Card continues to function. I am thinking that if I hit it with a hammer several times I will destroy it. I think that an iButton would also be destroyed by a hammer. My point is that I can't think of anything that would happen to the card in the course of normal use that would destroy it.
Lasers Controlled Games!
What happens if someone finds a way to side-step security measures on this, and gets your credit/debit card info just by getting close to your watch (or capturing the broadcast data)?
Just because you're classified as paranoid doesn't mean they AREN'T out to get you.
Okay you get the MacDonalds speed pass, are they going to offer anything special with the speed pass .. maybe a "speed bypass" for your heart condition from eating all of their sludge?
it's a sig, wtf?
Well, I got my speedpass in San Diego and use it at the mobil in pq, so I'd have to vouch for it existing in sd.
I have no idea about other areas of the city besides pq though.
Link to a Speedpass only credit card, and then chargeback any fraud.
sulli
RTFJ.
"Timex. It takes a licking, and keeps on tracking your every movement, faithfully letting The Man and Doubleclick know your spending habits."
Hey, it has a nice ring to it, doncha think?
Can you think of some sort of physical abuse that would destroy your iButton?
Lasers Controlled Games!
Go to Monticello. They use two dollar bills for small change at the gift shop. Somebody there has a sense of humor.
Or you can get them from the teller at the bank.
Nah, but he is not telling us the whole story... I am sure he baited the people with a tad of acting to make the act of using thd 2 dollar bill seem improper.
Otherwise it gets accepted easier.
but thanks for the link... it reminds me of how this usually plays out.
With the right type of equipment that can talk to this stuff at a greater distance and with the database of who has them, couldn't this become a form of tracking device that might be used/abused by some corporate or government entity?
Get the bills lined up, and clamp them together good and tight, and then paint the top edge with the padding cement. Let dry.
If you think you have problems getting people to accept a $2 bill, wait until you peel a couple off a pad of them.
The mobile on La Jolla Village dr. just west of the 5 has it. They redid the entire station a month or two ago to add it..
Hmm... I've been to at least two here in San Diego (one in Scripps Ranch, one in RB). Granted, that does not ubiquitous make...
Madness takes its toll. Exact change please.
Insert Punchline Here
The NYS thruway system has speedpass for tolls. It works very well and theft isn't so much of a problem since the charges are fairly small and unless you're using the thruway to get all over the state, stealing it has little or no point (I think albanybuffalo is about $12 or so). By targetting such technologies very specifically, theft is not so much of a problem.
Brian
I believe the movie you are talking about was Time After Time.
According government sources The Bureau of Engraving and Printing and the Office of Public Correspondence of the Department of the Treasury