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TLD Registrar Wants To Charge $300 For .Pro Names
dipfan writes: "The commercialization of the net continues: RegistryPro, the ICANN-approved registrar of the new TLD name, wants to charge up to $300 for .Pro addresses - or about 10 times the price of a .com address. The company says it will restrict .Pro to doctors, lawyers or accountants: 'qualified professionals in good standing ... .pro will be a premium brand, enabling effective, secure communication between professionals and users for the first time in the history of the Internet.' The Washington Post quotes RegistryPro's chief executive: 'The goal of RegistryPro is to build out a gated community for professionals on the Internet.' Is this what happens when you give one company a license to print money?"
Prostitutes won't be able to register...
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
Seems they'd have even more claim to the ".pro" space than the doctors, etc...
And then there will be the professional porn sites, the professional gambling sites.. the professional pop-up ad sites.....
Don't Tread on Me
No one will pay $300 for a .pro domain.
$300 is more like 20 times (or more) what you'd pay for a domain if you avoid verisign
Slashdot? Oh, I just read it for the articles.
Why not just let the market decide?
.pro domain. There are after all other choices.
If people want to pay, that's fine. No one is forcing anyone to have a
I don't think there is really anything wrong with allowing people to pay for what is, in effect, a premium brand. (I won't be buying one.)
So they want $300 for a name? Then just don't register in the .pro namespace. I can see getting all bent out of shape if this was happening in .com, but who cares about .pro.
In fact, I wish there was a little more of a barrier to entry, just think where spam would be if free e-mail sites didn't exist... (Yes, I know it would still be around, but at least they wouldn't be able to hide behind a throw away e-mail account.)
What, me worry?
That seems alot like the way ISP's triple their price for "business" access broadband; just charge 'em more money because they have it? Bah, some reward for getting your doctorate
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
$300 is ridiculous. I remember trying to register a .tv domain, and they wanted $500.
"enabling effective, secure communication between professionals and users for the first time in the history of the Internet"
Um, no, it won' t be secure nor effective by default. LOL, this is not the first time secure and effective communication has taken place between "pros and users". Who do these people think they are? God?
Hacking the Network
Doh!
I think it takes more than a nifty domain suffix to provide secure communications.
The revolution will be televised. Blackout restrictions apply.
Everybody simply black-hole the .pro TLD. I bet that'd reduce its premium-ness ;).
.pro here i come.
WTF do they mean by that.
.pro domain (not that i'd pay $300, but still)
I'm an engineer, and after 5 years of school, and 5 more being a professional i can't even apply for a
What is Good Standing ? why is it limited to those 3 professions ? who decided this ? and why ??
If they carry on like this I can't help but wonder how long .NET strategy).
it will be before Microsoft (and possibly AOL) offer their own
competing DNS services. (Indeed MS could well have this in
mind as a future part of their
(Yes, I know about some of the other alternative registrars
but they are small and (unfortunately) don't have the brand
recognition for the non tech-savvy to use them.)
If we consider that Thawte is selling their 128-but SuperCerts at the price of US $300 per year, which is not even the highest price on the market (Verisign, $348, then:
it is completely understandable that the price is similar, as they are supposed to go into similar actions to verify the authentity of the registrant - or atleast this is what their marketing speach makes you think - that they only give this domain name for fully qualified registrants, this they can verify only by same procedures, as Thawte or Verisign. They sell different product, but need to do similar procedures to deliver the product
What is not understandable, is if their price for renewals is as high - as the work involved in renewal is minimal compared to first time granting. This is also the case with Thawte and Verisign, they charge way too much for the renewals too (Thawte, $300 Verisign $249 )
While I believe that it should not cost more for one TLD than it does another, it couldn't happen to a nice group than lawyers.
as .info! Everyone needs a .info and .pro!! It's everywhere!
well you do get certificate sevices with it
:-)
Though after the enron debacle are acountants
professionals in good standing any more
Bet the IEEE pissed off abought being excluded though,.
Bah. Just like the elitist fscks down the road who want to build an 'exclusive community' on public infrastructure paid for with my taxes .
Let these asswipes manage their own root server. When the thing is 0wn3d by some teenager from Singapore, I'll be the first one in line to laugh.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
Are the .pro registry going to provide a warranty that all users of the .pro domain space are registered doctors, lawyers and accountants? If so, can I sue them if I am misled by an impostor? If not, where's the value in the domain?
http://www.glasswings.com/
Sorry, but if you're going to add accountants, you'd better add engineers to that list. Professional Engineers must be certified and licensed in all 50 US states, and in most industrialized nations, to practice engineering (offer engineering services to the public) - more than you can say for accountants.
Of course, you won't see me forking over $300 for a whiney "latecomer" TLD, 'cause I already own an original!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Or does "gated community" have nothing but negative connotations?
I mean, unless you're one of those stuck-up, afraid-of-the-world, protect-my-possesions at-the-cost-of-community, keep-me-away-from-the unwashed-masses type of person who lives in one, I can't imagine anyone using these words in a good way...
-Russ
Me
In a cyber-world of English companies with .com domains, Irish companies with .co.uk domains, ANY company with a .tv domain, it is quite clear to me that the original ideal of "relevant TLD suffixes" has never worked, and will never work in the future.
That said, it IS a good way of screwing laywers out of their hard-earned cash ($1000 for a letter??? I'll give you 4 for free!!!)
Restricting the domains to "professionals" seems to have little to do with charging $300.
While I understand there may be more adminstrative costs, it sounds more like RegistryPro sees those willing to pay $300 dollars as professionals in their eyes.
If they wanted to restrict owners they could do this for much less. It does sound very much like a monopolistic scam.
That someone willing to pony up $300 for a domain name is serious about it, and not some luser with a website trying to scam you. Of course, $300 isn't alot of money, but it might help filter out some of the worst bottom feeders.
If some "professionals" with coins burning holes in their pockets want to throw away some money for a bit of false prestige, more power to them.
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Selling a unique TLD for a premium price makes perfect business sense - it's already been done in every other market, why not domain names?
.pro domain. Means testing won't be much of an issue.
The requirement to prove that applicants are 'qualified professionals in good standing' is just marketing whitewash to inflate the added value of the service - anyone with 300$ will get a
---- scrm
That you will have to be a pimp to run a porn site?
Who on earth thinks people still go for the extension? People should save their 300 bucks. Google's where it's at.
The TLD namerush is over. .us and .info are bombs. They could charge $30 or even $3 for the names and they aren't going to pull the immediate numbers they are hoping for.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
This is the age-old scam called the cred-con. You create a new nightclub with an exclusive looking facade and then you put out a velvet rope and a bouncer and you only let in one out of 1000 people. And then you charge a "premium" and let anyone in throught the back door.
Professionals are the demographic who least need a web presence. Is this just a scam to attract other scam artists who want to present their own facade of credibility.
un déception par jour maintient le docteur parti
consider coffee a lubricant that helps one penetrate the coding zone
Given the verification requirements and assuming limited resources for follow up in third world countries...
.PRO are belong to.US
All your
Reading this, I couldn't help but think of the lead character's obsession with business cards in American Psycho. For professionals, a personal website today serves much of the role that business cards served in the 1980s.
Any website or businesscard will contain your contact information. But some people want more than that. They want to shell out extra money to make a statement. The extra $280 that they pay for a .Pro domain serves a purpose--it distinguishes them from the .Com rabble.
I hate to admite it, but what this company is doing with .Pro domains is innovative. If they market it well to people who want to make a statement, it'll sell. After all, we live in a world where loads of people spend $250 extra to get a gold plated nameplate on their Toyotas. Never underestimate the number of insecure people with money to spend.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
They have no license to "print money". Where is the rush to sign up for this TLD? They will have to market the hell out of it (spend money) to get people to plunk down that kind of money. And then they are only marketing to a small group of people, so thier potential market share will be even smaller. It might, nay, probably will end up being a money loser.
Is it too soon to call it the "dot prom"?
~Sean
all of those people who'll have 300 to spend will have an Iron-clad way to dupe people out of money-
maybe I should start my own "non-accredited professional tutoring service"?
it'll be just like a business card- just because you have one, doesn't mean your legit.
anyone here ever see bordello of blood?:) dennis miller was a private eye with a business card... ONE business card.
Looking for Book Reviews? Check out Literary Escapism.
Now announcing: a new telephone area code, 1AA, which will only be given to "really good people" who "aren't quacks." Yellow page ads, professional reputation, word of mouth, and popular reviews now all unnecessary.
.pro domain vendor which is a) slow and cumbersome, and b) not really their job.
.pro idea smacks of a corespondence-course quality "reputation enhancer."
Seriously. I know the web has a lot of crap, but is this the best way to deal with it? The point should be educating people about how to find the high-quality services by comparing rates, credentials, standing among community organizations, etc. This essentially places the work in the hands of the
I guess my biggest concern is that someone can just buy the "premium" nametag as such. I mean, think about how you look for doctors, for example. You want to make damn sure they have "MD" after their names, but you want it to be backed up by a diploma on the wall, which at least ensures they've gone to an accreditted med school. This
I was under the impression that lawyers and doctors didn't use email due to the confidentiality issues surrounding its insecurity (I guess the ISP's SysAdmin or your boss is the third party that messes up the lawyer - client priviledge)
But, they will pay for it anyway. Its a great marketing angle and its not like $300/year will be noticed passed on to anybody's Doctor or Lawyer bill.
Jeez, let me see I need to keep my
My company needs to keep
Am I getting stiffed here or what?
About the only thing left of the dot com bubble that hasn't burst are domain registras.
:-(
I love this,
:)
.GOD domain for the ego's of Judges and Politicians ? I want in on that hell charge them 10k a domain its not like they wont steal from the taxpayer to fund it.
Its nice to see greed still reigns supreme in the human spirit.
Doctors, Lawyers, "qualified professionals in good standing"........Well that eliminates about 75% of the doctors I know, and has to be at least 90% of the layers I know.
The funny thing is these supposed "qualified professionals" are in general, A) Just dumb enough to pay and B) Have the ego that will force them too.
Damm I wish I had thought of this one, its almost a perfect business model. Just like selling MP3's for Christian Music like LiquidAudio is doing, you know a Real honest christian isnt going to steal the MP3 when they can buy it , its gold,
This is too, between overinflated ego's of "Proffesionals" Layers, Doctors, etc...You cant loose.
Whats next a
This is funny beyond compare
Sig went tro...aahemmm.....fishing........
I found this article which briefly describes some of the reasoning behind the .pro restrictions. I guess the $300 is to cover the research that goes into verifying that someone is really a pro. They will also be verifying whether the company owns a trademark to cut down on cybersquatting. Here is a great quote for all you lawyer fans:
"Elana Broitman, a lawyer representing RegistryPro, told the room full of fellow attorneys that such restrictions will naturally hinder abuse because those professions (referring to lawyers) have a higher level of ethics than other groups and "would be less likely to cybersquat." "
Lets get this straight, here is a company set up to fleece money out of ambulance chasers, audit dodgers and doctors (feel sorry for them being lumped in with the others). Brillant, and inspired, pray on their inate structures and desire for recognition. All those crappy adverts on US TV will now have "certified professional" because of their $300
Fleecing those whose business is to fleece others (and doctors so they don't spot its just aimed at them).
Just think those Anderson/Enron people will be certified as trustworthy
And people on Slashdot haven't worked out that this is in fact the first time the geeks get to fleece the suits.... shame on you.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Is this what happens when you give one company a license to print money?
No. If you give one company a license to print money, they will probably print money. However, if you give one company an artificial monopoly in a top-level domain name, they may pump-up prices due to lack of competition pressuring the price down.
They can go jump...
I say we get rid of TLDs altogether.
Why can't they just be unregulated, like usenet?
Anyone have a theory or knowledge?
Also, why can't we have all unicode chars in the domain name ? This would rule for Japanese et al.
graspee
Surely just like the ".com" tld, this is going to cause problems for both consumers and suppliers of accounting / law services with a lack of localization (if anybody takes them up on the £300 offer of course).
I think that the tld's should be reserved for global things only, e.g. java.sun.com seems good, sun is a multinational company, and the same java is used the world over. (and as a counter-example, I've seen people looking for the U.K safeway chain caught out by www.safeway.com, using the store locator and being given an address in Florida).
It does however seem a good idea for governments (or some other authority) to try to set up "authoritive" sources of information that people are more aware of, and with suitable degrees of localization.
For example if I want accurate information on Tax or benifits in the U.K, I'll start of with a google search including "site: .gov.uk", as I'm pretty sure that they don't let just anybody have a .gov.uk domain, or for non-crackpot theories of relativity, limit to "site: .ac.uk" or "site: .edu", or to find a local doctor, something under ".nhs.uk" for the national health service seems a good bet.
Back to the ".pro" idea, this is already partially implemented with for example the ".co.uk", ".com", ".ltd.uk" domains, except that:
i feel that the main problem with domain names right now is they are so cheap. companys are able to buy domain names in bulk and then charge people BIG bucks for them to get their_name.com and stuff.
domain names are purchashed the moment they go inactive and put as porn links. its out of control. the only way to get domain names under control is to either restrict any organization or person to 10 names or to raise their cost so that it becomes economicly unfeaseable to have a business that survives by buying and selling domain names.
Someone tell me how having a .pro top-level will make anything secure?
/.'ers know. However the fact is, most of the .pro(fessionals) out there aren't hip to this.
So the other top-levels cannot be secure? This is just another crapload of lies, which all of us
I work for a large web-hosting firm, and most of our doctor/lawyer/etc. clients are truly clueless when it comes to this type of thing.
Those of you out there saying that the market should decide for itself are missing the point. We (as techno-smart Slashdot readers) are not the market, so we won't be the ones to decide. The doctor/lawyer/etc., who is too busy practicing medicine/law/whatever, and who's email address contains @aol.com is going to decide the market. If my clients are a good cross-section of this group, they'll pay thru the nose without ever knowing any better.
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
Yes. See the definition of "Monopoly".
How much is the list price of MS Office now? (I wouldn't know, I bought Applixware...)
The domain name squating stuff that we have seen so far will be small time compared to the issues of who gets what name. You can't pretend to be someone else and there are many laws on the books to prevent it. The result is lots of reasons for law suits that will be much worse that we have ever seen in .com law. Trademarks are unique for an area and geography. The courts seem to have extended this a bit but when someone says "I'm John Smith the Lawyer" that can and will be confusing with other John Smiths that are also lawyers.
The only solution to the ".pro" domains will be what I've proposed in the past as a "resolution server". This is some service company holds "John Smith" and then deals with the differentiations. The courts will come to this conclusion at some point down the road but its going to be a heavly litigated path.
As far as you can.
For the $300 registration fee, the people registering get a domain name regiestered that tells people that they are an actual professional in their field. In order to provide this the registar needs to do research to verify that the person registering the domain is an actual accredited professional, and verify that they maintain that accreditation. The $300 isn't an unreasonable fee for this added service. If people don't think the price is worth it, they will register a non .pro domain name, which mean that there is competition in the market. The registar has found a way to differenciate the domain by adding value. Great business idea.
And you're surprised, why?
Let anyone who will buy the garbage they told the Washington Post waste their money on .pro addresses. Sheesh! A gated community on the Internet? Give me a break...
The company says it will restrict .Pro to doctors, lawyers or accountants: 'qualified professionals in good standing ...
And just how do they determine who is 'qualified' or 'in good standing'?
Oh, yeah.... I forgot about the $300.00 'proof'.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Uh huh, so we can expect LionelHutz.pro in about 2 minutes.
http://www.pettifogger.com/hutz.htm
All this means for me, and probably most of the people here on /., is more Spam. I already get a ton for .BIZ, .INFO, etc., now I'll be getting .PRO spam too. Great.
If the aim is to provide 'secure' communications
to professionals - then $300 is no deterrent at
all to any kind of con man - in fact, the opposite
is true - the mere idea that a '.pro' suffix
implies some degree of professional competency
is well worth $300 to a con artist.
OTOH, I can't think of any other way to administer
this TLD - if you started demanding some specific
set of qualifications then you'd run into all
manner of problems with herbalists, acupuncturists
and other fringe medical types.
I don't think anyone should *ever* rely on the
TLD suffix to say *anything* about the nature of
the site you are visiting.
www.sjbaker.org
RegistryPro will sell .pro addresses only to Internet users who can prove that they are certified physicians, lawyers or accountants.
However RegistryPro actually say:
So the question for engineers is, what certificate? Degree? MCSE?? RHCE? And how do you classify engineers? This may be why there is currently no option for engineers. Added to the fact that engineers don't sell themselves to the public in the way the other professions listed do.
As regards the price, there have been a lot of complaints about the cost relative to a .com domain. If you can't see a difference between a .com and .pro then stick with .com. It's early days yet - wait for the marketing - if the public see a benefit in using people registered under .pro then the annual $300 registration will be insignficant, bearing in mind how much these professionals charge per hour.
I find it despicable that ICANN, an organisation that is supposed to act within the best interests of the Internet as a whole, has bowed to special interests in ways unseen outside the United States congress.
.pro serving three special professions and charging out the eye for it.
.pro? What is with these restricted domains? How does a restricted domain benefit me or just about any average everyday Internet user, the people that ICANN is supposed to be representing but are ultimately getting shafted by these inane policies.
.aero, .coop, and .museum.
;)
ICANN is supposed to promote competition but they grant responsibility of entire domains to single organisations, and with that we end up with abuses such as
Why the hell do we need
And don't even get me started on
Screw ICANN. Until today, I did not fully realise the scope of their abuses, but now I will work to dismantle it and someday, God willing, return the Internet to the people. Viva la revoluccion! Viva! (sorry, Cinco de Mayo has inspired me.
"[T]he single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom." -- Barry Goldwater
It's not a bad idea, actually. Let's say you are a company and you get the right to manage a brand new TLD. Let's also say you want to get rich doing it, with minimal work.
I say, if you want to make money, appeal to the ego of a demographic with plenty of expendable income and generally limited computer know-how. If a semi-competent "professional" gets an email message suggesting that he/she may qualify for an elite, brand-new .pro domain, this professional might be duped into thinking that others in the profession will stare at his/her new website domain with awe. This professional will use the .pro domain to brag to the whole world that he/she is competent - much like getting a vanity license plate with "doctor" or "lawyer" on it.
IT professionals were probably left out of this club because we're much less likely to actually want a .pro domain (and probably already own a few .com's anyway). Why waste advertising money on a demographic that isn't going to buy the product? Also, we don't tend to fit in with the other professionals socially - if you saw a lineup comprised of lawyers, doctors, accountants, and one IT professional, you'd probably be able to pick the IT pro out quickly enough (if by no other means, by saying "all your base are" and wait for one to say "belong to us!"). We don't need/want to be in their club. We already know we're superior :)
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
...having "premium" TLD is not a bad idea, and is OK also to have TLDs such as .xxx or .sex. This may help to make things clearer in the domain assignation. .net otherwise not); now everything goes under ".com", and this is also very bad for DNS efficiency!
In the very beginning the domains were assigned with some kind of control on the owner (if you were an ISP you could have
This could be a "back to the origin" way of managing names&numbers.
But this question arises: who and how will enforce the rules on which the domains should be assigned? This is not a trivial problem (even if it is not techical at all)....
667 The Neighbour of the Beast
www.hotlinda.pro
Hi Iam Linda. I shelled out 300 bucks for this domain.And you can have me and the domain for 600.
If they are checking to see if .pro registrants are certified professionals, then they don't *need* 300$ as a barrier to non-professionals. They have one. They're checking. That's the barrier. In this case, .pro addresses should be slightly more expensive to pay for the identity check, but $300 is a lot.
If they arn't checking, then the 300$ isn't going to do anything to keep non-professionals from just paying up.
So the 300$ is either a totally redundant or completely useless barrier to entry, one or the other. Perhaps both.
Everyone knows that "someexistingproduct.pro" addresses will exist, anyway ... pepsi.pro will point to pepsi's legal representitives, of course.
Or maybe pepsi's home page which has a link to thier legal representitives. Or maybe pepsi will just sue like mad untill they get "pepsi.pro" free and clear with no restrictions.
Somebody come up with something better than DNS and TLD registration, please...
Maybe the state's highest function is to grind out insoluble problems. (Zelazny, Hall of Mirrors)
Since when is an accountant or an MD more professional than say a CCNE, an MCSE, someone with a CS masters, Ph.D.?!? Or, say, the CEO of a company?!? Seems strange that the CFO, if they're a CPA as well, can get .PRO, but the CEO, CTO, COO, etc. cannot.
Arbitrary limitations like this make me sick.
That's ok, we can just lobby to create a .gfy TLD & keep those three professions out of it...
Just send $25 US to me, along with a picture of you and your high score on any video game and I'll send you a Certificate of completion.
For the layers: This is in no way intended to be taken seriously.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
On top of being able to resell em, they have class value :)
God spoke to me
I don't think that the $300 fee equates to any kind of "gated community for professionals". I mean, its not like pr0n sites can't afford that.
Caveat: off the top of my head, not sure its a good idea, but might be worth a discussion.
Why not let anyone be eligible for controlling a TLD? Then that person or entity may decide:
Now, what eligibility requirements do the TLD owners have? Options (pick a subset):
The endemic problem with TLD is that its always a monopoly held by someone, but we try to pretend that it isn't. Lets give up on pretending a TLD is not a monopoly and instead loosen up who gets a TLD, thereby providing competing TLD monopolies. So company X controls .pro and company Y controls .md; I'm Garver, MD. and I think .pro wants too much money, so I go with .md.
This may also help other issues such as free speech vs. kids hitting xxxbigtits.com. A TLD's requirement may be that all content is kid-safe, and they would decide what that means. It would be easy for software to filter on TLD. Parents would have the power they need to control their kids content without having to watch every link their kid follows.
Just an idea.
And to think I had my heart set on cointel.pro.
CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.
And so far, in every case, they've failed. .biz, .name, .pro, .museum (well, that _might_ make it, but not at the price their offering), all 4 of those are current failures in our eyes. and they're failures not because the company couldn't handle the registrations; they're failures because they suck, and we know it.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
I wouldn't register a .pro address is they were 1/5 the cost of a similar .com domain. From what I have seen, most people agree with me. I register domains for many of my clients, ranging from very technical clients to people that don't even have a computer in their office, and all have insisted that they wanted a .com domain. One of them had their companyname.com registered by someone else, and begrudgingly settled for companyname.net, after it looked like it would require many thousands of dollars to get the .com. Let em go nuts charging whatever they want for .pro. .com is still going to be the cats meow.
www.jackasscritics.com
i could get any kind of service, $300 would be cheap. hell a t1 is a grand a month. remember, you get what you pay for, i just like to make sure that i actually get what i am paying for! nothing quite like spending several days to transfer a domain! add up those hours.
Yes, .pro does sound like it will be a "kind of upper class boys club". So what?
.pro to have any value.
.pro to be visible on my network. If Bill O'Reilly has to pay radio stations for getting his new program out to listeners, I expect some sharing of revenue as well.
Except that upper class boys club uses my network and my customers to make it of any value. As a Internet service provider, they need my subscribers eyeballs and my infrastructure for
Sounds like I want $10.00 per month per subscriber to enable
*scoove*
Isn't this sorta against the law? Arn't 'members only' clubs a violation of something or other? Telling me I can't get a .pro domain because I am not a cpw, lawyer or doctor is, well, wrong. I am a professional, not that I want to especially be playing in their sandbox, but still.. I would be surprised if this doesn't get some activist group riled up enough to take em to court if they don't broaden their scope.
the cooler .com seems. after all... we're talking "dot-com"!!
get xited
Personaly I think it is a crap idea open to abuse
However look at the number of "profesional bodies" here in the UK (Institue of Physics etc) who charge £40 (~US$60) a year plus, just so you can call yourself a "Chartered Physicist" or "Charterd Enginer"
In reality all this means in that the title holder has a BSc/BEng degree (These are regulated to a minumum standard anyway) with three or four years works experiance, and is stupid enough to cough up money to an unelected body every year.
Yet people still pay to be "chartered" and people still look for "charterd profesionals"
Stupid!
And that is why it will suceed
Anyone quoted by a reporter knows how little they understand
Don't believe what you read is the truth.
Maybe someone will come out with a .los for losers like me. They could ask for bank account receipts, transcripts, and bankruptcy docs to prove that I am indeed a loser. Maybe, something like a divorce might look good for this?
This is retarded, this is like a country club on the web! Defeats the purpose of the internet doesn't it?
Just a thought!
"Entertain the Brutes"
Bill's gonna be pissed. Guess he's not gonna be "pro" enough.
hmm... go to law school for x years, get degree, join the Bar, register microsoft.pro and link it to linux.org. Might be worth it just for the chuckle.
--bc
Why would a professional in a third world country want an uncommon TLD that is just part of an *English* word? There are lots of other domain names possible, no-one at all is forced to use .pro
.professional TLD, for example, or any number of other intuitive toplevel TLDs that would enable sufficient competition for the .pro TLD to be priced at fair market value.
.uk and .ca) have competing registrars that keep the price of a domain name in check. Those that don't (many counry specific ones like .tv) tend to be priced higher than a market of competing registrars would result in. .pro has no competing registrar, so it does enjoy something of a monopoly, or at least an oligarchical postion, in that ICANN severely restricts who can offer competing TLDs and has disallowed competing registars for .pro.
The problem is that the entire marketplace for domain names is unfree at several levels. ICANN enjoys an effective stranglehold on who is and is not allowed to join the domain name cartel and "compete." So while there are other names available, no one is free to start up a competing
The other TLDs (including some country-specific ones like
This does not a free market make, and until there is a truly free market (which would probably require the dismantling of ICANN to achieve) it is a fallacy, and a mistake, to assume that market forces will even be able to function in an unfettered fashion, with anything approaching the results one would normally expect and require from a market (lower prices and better quality, in short service of the public good).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
don't forget that pr0n companies are those who are pushing the net forward - and surely they have enough money to afford any .pro domain name they want.
.it at the end. All .it domains are managed by the italian Nic (the equivalent) or whatever no-profit is eligible for that.
:) ]
when will this stupid domain issue end? when are we going to push for a country-based management of domains? Let's make an example, Italy; I dream a world where all Italian companies MUST have the
dot-com domains made sense in a us-only internet, as it was a while ago.
I don't know why my neighbor can have his useless and not interesting domain name waste disk space on the root servers and waste bandwidth for MY connections!
uhm.. never mind.
[I wonder what could happen if I can put the deCSS algorithm as a domain name.. will the US government shut down the root servers for DMCA infringement?
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
Is this what happens when you give one company a license to print money?
is this a rhetorical question?
Don't worry, .serf is coming to the internet soon. All of you less important, non-professionals will be able to buy .serf domain names for a lot less than the $300 .pro name. However you will have to pay a yearly tithe to your local lord (check out the .lord, .knight, .baron and .royal endings to find out your local overlord) for the use of such an ending. And you aren't allowed to vote either.
register a few
turn out some sitesthat could be seen as distasteful
Imagine... if .pro became synonymous with ultimate sleaze. ;)
(start saving your $ now!
The "Gated Community" comment just shows how bad an idea it really is-- The level of isolation they aspire to sell to the public seems to me the exact opposite of the meaning of 'The Internet'.
Is this what things are coming to?
Since the 80's the Internet has been opening up the world, now it's going to be shuttered off piece-by-piece in the interest of making a quick buck.
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
meant for. DNS isn't designed to rope all the porn sites into a .sex, nor was it ever designed to be a secure communications channel for doctors, lawyers and accountants.
.only-Jack-Valenti-can-use-this-TLD and .everyone-else-has-to-use-this-one.
It's not even a good use of a TLD, if they artificially limit it to a really small class of users. The idea, is to choose enough TLD's, that everyone can have as many as they need, while still allowing people to categorize them enough to make a little sense. In effect they are pulling a "two tld system" where one is
That's an exaggeration, but it makes the point, doesn't it? It's just not an efficient use of TLD's.
It seems to me that since the TLD policies are getting ever more elitest the next set of TLDs will end up being along the lines of (.microsoft, .sony, .pepsi) at a cost of 1,000,000 per. This way ICANN can rich, and big business can get off that level ground everyone was started on when the internet became popular.
The one nice thing about the internet is it, for the most part, is class less. By adding an exclusive domain, or "premium", it makes the others "cheaper". I dont think it is a great idea.
.pro help??
.net or C#....
No one will get directly hurt by having premium domains, but it doesnt promote the free and equal feel of the net as it stands today. If Doctors only want to talk to doctors, use a login like everyone else. How does adding
Unless of course MS offers A premium Internet Explorer Pro written in either
or, to be more accurate, domain name extortionists. $300 is a little much to start buying up every possible letter combination.
Now when I am searching for a penis enlargement doctor, it will be easier to find one.
This will be the name of my referral sales site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_c
:0:
* ^From:.*\.pro.*
/dev/null
This space intentionally left blank.
What's the use of a gated community on the web? Don't you want patients and clients to be able to get to your web site? Will these .pro sites only allow other people with .pro addresses in? Add to that the use of "a premium brand, enabling effective, secure communication" and it begins to look like a full scale buzz words attack.
Run for cover!!
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
I can tell you that from extensive interaction with other physicians, that there are many that would pay whatever the fee was. All though the salaries in medicine are not as high as most people believe, there is the tendency to write a decision off as being good for the practice. So for many a $300.00 domain would not be thought too much of, but MOST physicians are very tech unsavvy. That means, that they could have the .pro domains marketed to them, and they would not even know that there were other viable options. As a group physicians are too busy to keep on top of changes in technology, thus there are companies that sell many things at very high prices.
.com addresses, because I for one will not pay just for the 'privledge' of have .pro after my name.
To give an example, recently I did some upgrading of a system that was about 6 years old. It was a dual Pentium 133, 32 MB of RAM, with a Targa video capture card. When this system was bought, the group paid over $20,000 for it. But it had a brand on it from a medical company, and a program worth a couple thousand dollars.
One last case, recently I help institute a linux based network at the hospital where I work. The biggest problem with our proposal was that it did not cost enough. It was felt that because our proposed cost was about 25-30% of what the next closest bid was, that we must be cutting corners, using bad hardware, etc.
The truth of the matter was simply that we were not using Compaq or Microsoft. The end result was that a $50,000 project came out costing only $12,000.
So, the cycle of parasitism on those not in the know continues with this new TLD. Kinda sad, but I guess I will have to stick with my
So their logic goes as follows:
Since only qualified professionals in good standing could afford $300, a ".pro" will be a seal of quality.
Can anybody else spot the flaw?
I am a Karma Library.
Who cares? Just get a .org address instead. Who really gives a flying flip what your website ends with. I think I'll take over a new domain. I'll call it .whocares
"Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me"
Typical Yanks thinking they own the internet *again*. What I'd like to see is .mil/.gov folded into .us. I'd also undelegate .info etc, since they really aren't required and just add to the confusion.
.com for each advertising campaign. This plain sucks, DNS is a hierarchy, and companies should be using slogan.company.tld or whatever.
Also at the momemnt, companies just go out an register a new
In short I'd like domains to stop being used like trade marks, and revert to their intended use which is more akin to that of telephone numbers. Doubt it will happen, but it would be nice.
Tim Brown
Global census data shows professionals are higher wage earners
What they are trying to say is "these rich bastards have money and we plan to stick em for $300 a pop"
So, RegistryPro wants to associate the .pro TLD with honesty, morality and trust?
You have to wonder why they're allowing lawyers to buy them -- but then again, at $300, they're the only people who would be prepared to splash out that much on a simple domain name!
In essense, then, a .pro address is a certification then of professional status, and good standing in that profession.
Why does this company full of network weenies think it has the authority to certify people in other fields?
Give me a break.
(For those who can't be bothered reading the reference, i.e. 90% of /.) On the up side, they're partitioning the space sensibly. You're not buying a 2nd level domain (e.g. rogerborg.org), you're buying a third level, e.g. rogerborg.med.pro, so Mr Rogerborg the doctor and Ms Rogerborg the accountant can coexist without getting rogerborg.law.pro involved.
On the down side, they are extremely fuzzy.:
Basically, this looks like a TLD for people who want a TLD that costs $300. I'm actually fine with that from a market point of view, but - lacking details - their claims regarding validation of certification simply aren't very credible. I'll stick with my .org, thanks very much.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
"Sir, during review of your application for a .PRO domain, we unconvered a grand total of two customers who were not happy with the service you provided them. Under the current guidelines, we can not approve you for a .PRO domain as members must be in 'good standing,' which we take to mean 'a flawless record.' Perhaps you should try the newbie (.NEW) or hopeless wank (.WNK) domains.
Please, don't write us again.
Sincerely,
The Ivory Tower"
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
Now, considering I paid like $50 for 5 years, I don't feel so bad. The dot-tv guys are suckers.
Incidentally, the Saudi TLD is .eh - I can't believe someone hasn't tapped the Canadian market yet! (yeah, I'm one of em, eh)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
What will they do when a colition of adult film stars wants to register porn.pro? What about an elite group of warez traders, warez.pro?
1 tequila 2 tequila 3 tequila floor
A slight but important correction: the authoritative repository for a TLD is called a Registry (not a Registrar as RegistryPro is described in the post) in the domain industry. A Registrar is a second tier player that resells domains from the Registry (which generally is not allow to sell directly to the consumer) with value-added features (email forwarding or web hosting). This was ICANN's (I believe) way of de-monopolizing the market by allowing it to broaden vertically. Of course it didn't work entirely -- Verisign, the COM/NET/ORG Registry also acts (through a seperate division) as the largest COM/NET/ORG Registrar (though in this regard they are given no special preference over other registrars).
The Registrars generally connect to the Registry in real-time and run domain operations using the EPP or RRP protocols (this is in the gTLDs -- ccTLDs still often use email templates).
I am not certain what ICANN's contractual agreement with RegistryPro is -- whether or not they are allowed to also act as a Registrar or indead if they will adhere to the multi-tiered model at all. I do know that they are going to be a significantly different TLD (from COM/NET/ORG) so its not terribly suprising to see different pricing (especially considering they are aiming at a much more restrictive market).
By way of a disclaimer, I am involved in the domain industry, but not in any of the companies mentioned above.
You can get .com for only $14.95/yr these days...i wonder how many "professionals" are prodigals...
...unbreakable domain names. .oracle :)
and of course those unbreakable will be
-- There are two kind of sysadmins: Paranoids and Losers. (adapted from D. Bach)
Is this what happens when you give one company a license to print money?
No, it's what happens when you give one company a license to print what a few fools will think is money.
Let's get started by dismantling the WWW and returning to gopher and archie. (That's the text versions, you GUI people are gonna bring down the COMMUNE-ity here.) That ought to help us build a properly gated community to keep out everyone.
Uhm, what? Money as a gated community? Hah! It'll never work!
Car analogies work about as well as a Ford Pinto with a keg of beer in the passenger seat.
This is what happens with monopolies everywhere. Since some functions must be centralized by their very nature, they should not be for-profit.
No, this is what happens when you give a company a license to print "money" (and start the price at $250).
I keep hearing about ICANN screwing things up, but don't know the details of how this is happening.
My question is this:
Are there good technical reasons for not proliferating TLDs to the same extent as all the many entries in theOr is it just a political quagmire, where "other interests" are looking for ways to address their pet concerns, make extra money, etc.?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I think doctors are a respectable profession, not to be lumped together with accountants, lawyers, and other prostitutes.
In Murphy We Turst
Pro? How a pro when only 'practicing'??
When will people understand that domain names are just names? When will they figure out that TLDs are nothing but delegated namespaces?
My phone may be "secure" or "effective," or not. But my phone number is just a number. If they change my area code it will be annoying because I'm used to the old one, but my phone will still work exactly the same as it does now.
The only sane way to run a DNS root is to hand out pieces of namespace (somehow, doesn't matter how) and then wash your hands of the second level. DNS was designed as a hierarchy. Let the hierarchy do its thing.
Bottom line, I don't care who or what registers a dot-pro name. It's nobody's business but the owners of that namespace.
The way people talk you'd think that top-level domains have something significant to do with security, content, mail handling, and routing. They don't.
Does no one understand that there are at least as many wackos with $300 as there are wackos with $30?
Devin
stuff |
Simple. Be a member of a recognised professional body.
For the UK that's simple for IT types. The only recognised professional body is the British Computer Society. You can gain Chartered Engineer status after becoming a full member of the society (MBCS). You get to put letters after your name as well.
There must be similar organisations in other countries.
Deleted
So exactly how does registering a domain name create awareness? It's not advertising...
.pro by refusing .pro site.
I plan on reducing the "value" of
traffic from any
Frankly, ICANN has GOT to go. They are worse than what we had before. Time to startup that letter writting campaign.
The only way to restrict this to Dr.s, lawyers, etc. is to do extensive tracking and verification. A $300 price tag is not going to keep a good scam artist away. Im sure the local ambulance chaser can scrounge $300 bucks together if he wants to get a .pro, to sound "reputable," so he can scam people out of thousands? Back in the day when it was $50/yr for a domain, people did this. $300 does not limit fraud or make something proffesional. Example for IRL? Look @ the BBB and their buddy-buddy membership dues club with companies. Then again, if you start charging $1000, then no one will buy it, including doctors and lawyers. Hell, most Docs and Lawyers I work with these days would not even pay the $300 for a stupid web page (not much they can do over the web business wise).
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
I don't know if this is going to get in or moded high enough for most people to stick around and read it.
:)
But likely what they will do is pull a D&B (http://www.dnb.com/) report on the business... This provides them with all the necessary information such as: Date of inception, type of business, financial standing, etc
The use of this kind of report is very frequent in creating a baseline for trusting a company with which to do business with.
I imagine this, rather than an assumtion that anyone willing to pay $300 for a domain is valid. As with most "bottom-feeder" Ad or Spam ware people will pay high pricess for increesed exposer, i think this is a valid form of identifying who is good and who is bad.
It does likely muscle out the newcomers, but there is something to be said for allowing businesses who have stayed in operation to single themselves out.
As for the $300 sticker price, i'm willing to guss a chunk of that goes to verifying the person... D&B can charge upwards of $150 (into the thousands) depending on if they already have a report on file, and if they have to dig deeper to find information..
As far as how D&B and others gather your information, they pull it from your vendor's license, public creditors, credit reports, major news stories, and anything that has passed through the court system. They usually call and speak with the company directly as well, to find out a little more.
Ok, that's my two-cents...
All Lawyers, Doctors, Accountants required to register .pro domains
.pro domain name with RegistryPro. "This is our latest consumer-friendly protection legislation," said Sen. Hollings, "making sure that consumers aren't duped by sham professionals with .org, .net or .com addresses. Think of the confusion that might create!"
Senator Fritz Hollings today submitted legislation that will require all newly-licensed medical, legal, or accounting professionals to register a
RegistryPro's chief executive announced a concurrent price increase and change in registration policy - new domains are now priced at $300 per month. "Seems our 'gated community' just got a little more exclusive!" he was overheard to say.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
in the face....
But we'll never find an adequate solution. Why?
The DNS system was not designed with the current market for domains in mind. It was designed to give us a technically elegant way to put a name to an ip address. It was not meant to be a universal lookup service for the WWW.
But it is. And we're stuck with it. People don't change that fast.
I personally believe the biggest mistake was bringing out more TLD's. What we really needed was to let the current domain pool run until no useful domains are left and let the world come up with a better way to organize it's data.
If they're going to charge more for people who make more, they should charge less for groups that make less.
.whatever is BS anyway. It's become a scam to extract money out of people who don't want somebody else using their name (like whitehouse.com) and are willing to buy all the .whatevers to make it so. The day they started letting people "collect all three" - (and now much more than that) is the day the extensions lost all meaning. They should be done away with entirely. For that matter, so should the for-profit registries. They should introduce undotted domain names, hear arguments as to who deserves it most to settle the inevitable disputes, and move on.
All this
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
How exactly do you define being a "professional" Does it require an actual certificate, such as a degree or plaque, or can anyone designate themselves a pro. Personally, I consider myself a professional Editor, although I'm not certified.
I don't get this attitude of yours at all. On one hand a ton of people here on Slashdot bitch about how average people are morons and idiots some of them so stupid that they shouldn't be allowed to breed, and then you come across a situation where a group of people decides they have had "enough" of that kind of people so they make a gated community to protect them and shield them from it and you give them shit over it and mock them?
Can no one have discriminating tastes over those they choose to associate with? How the hell do you know they are sacrificing community? They may be as close as can be behind those gates simply because they KNOW they aren't living next to the unwashed masses. And whats so grand or great about the unwashed masses to begin with that no one should "dare" to move away from them or gate themselves off from them?
I don't think these people are afraid of the world, probably just tired of it. Stuck up perhaps, but being snobby isn't always a bad thing. If no one is able to say there is a point or a level of crap they won't tolerate anymore then no one anywhere would have any standards of any kind.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
don't forget that they are going to have to cover the cost of checking up every applicant, it's not like some other domains where the process can be automated. This could explain where *some* of the $300 comes from..
Actually the IT professionals were probably left out simply because they don't have any money after the dot com bomb. Add that to the fact that most IT professionals or geeks as they are better known, seem to have a weird anti-status gene built in that prevents them from wanting recognition for their profession and an abundance of a pro-sucker gene that allows them to be worked to the bone 60, 70, 80+ hours a week for half the money they made either a year or two ago.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Well first of all not everyone agrees with the assumption that the Internet is supposed to be what it was originally designed for. Things change. And its not like they're closing off the entire internet, just one TLD. Do you feel so slighted by that that it matters to you? Must everyone want to share every and anything with everyone lest they be labelled enemies of the spirit of the net?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Recognised by whom? After all there is the PCG (Professional Contractors Group), the IAP (Institute of Analysts and Programmers), the Worshipful Company of Information Technologists...
The thing is, some professions are regulated. You aren't allowed to practise without being recognised by your governing body. In IT that's not the case. Does a CEng from the IEE mean you're an IT professional? Do you need a CEng to bid on government IT contracts?
Also IT has a great many specialist areas. You could go to practically any solicitor and expect him/her to *be able to* draw up a will for example. In IT you couldn't go to any CEng and necessarily expect them to write a short PERL script or VB program.
Anyway, it seems clear that RegistryPro are initially just concentrating on the professions where they expect to make most money.
How would requiring a login be any different from a restricted TLD? Wouldn't both serve the same goal of keeping the "unqualified" out?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
I am a CPA. I have two thoughts on this subject.
1. If my colleagues in accountancy, law, or medicine choose to fork out $300 for one of these "exclusive" domains, that's their business. Damn silly if you ask me, and I don't see how providing a higher level of security is worth the cash they are asking for.
2. That having been said, we live in a free-market economy. If a sucker wants to pay 10, 20 or 100 times the going rate for a domain name, let them. There's no law against foolishness or stupidity (although it would be nice if there were. Just another 21st century example of the emperor's new clothes.
Nothing else to see here folks, move along.
I'm not really a CPA, I just play one on TV
I read this "The company says it will restrict .Pro to doctors, lawyers or accountants: 'qualified professionals in good standing ... .pro will be a premium brand, enabling effective, secure communication between professionals and users for the first time in the history of the Internet.'" and the first thing I thought was about all the spam that ends up in the hotmail account I use for registrations etc.
I actually think this is a good idea, and I see no problem with this type of charge for this type of domain name given the target audience. Why? The big problem is that no one currently enforces the intent of the "big three" .COM, .NET, and .ORG namespaces. Remember when you had to be a company to get a .dom? Or an ISP to get a .net? These namespaces have become nothing more than a free-for-all for sake of generating revenue. New namespaces like this if registration requirements are enforces could help relieve some of the current confusions in the "big three" TLD's. The key is to come up with namespaces that make sense while being attractive to the target audiences.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Let's Get Rid of TLDs; They No Longer Serve Any Useful Purpose.
.org, .com., and .net. If this is the case that this is normal now, then why bother having TLDs?
v "
n sultants"
.com address have the same name, they still have to differentiate themselves at the domain level. Why bother adding the .com on?
.com or .edu), they'll start distringuishing themselves a number of different ways. This may be worse than having a single ".edu"., e.g., they may have NNNuniv, NNNedu, univofNNN", but it is more flexible, and many places already have a variety of identifying tricks in their domains already, so it's not that much different from what we have now. Dropping the .edu or .com from the end when they offer multiple services (and they advertise it on their site) will probably let things be clearer (less confusing) for the visitor also.
Let's get rid of TLDs.
1. When the net was small and voluntary, TLDs were fine, but now they just get in the way.
2. I went to check out registering a name a year or two ago and the registrar's website suggested I do multiple registrations for
3. For determing the validy of any presentation media (newspaper, advertisements, pamphlets, etc.), the burden is on the customer. Let the burden be on the customer to determine the validity of a website, which it has always been, and which it is in every other presentation media. If a site is found to be fraudulent at some level, there are laws to handle that, as there are for other media. No registrar organization validating ".biz" vs ".org" vs ".net" vs ".com" are going to provide any checks that are in-depth enough to protect a customer before they visit a site. If a site engages in illegal activity, the customer can go through the normal legal channels. If a particular class of activity over time (say, medical advice) is found to be harmful unless certified, than a law will be written creating a certification body and certification, as it has for other types of activities (e.g., doctors, engineers, teaching, etc.).
4. There are currently no registrars that anyone trusts to come up with and enforce consistent standards. Why beat ourselves over our heads trying to get these companies to enact some kind of valid, non-profit-motivated certification system when the law and law making already handle it for critical cases?
5. Having standards on TLDs (and the only way to have useful TLDs now and cut the arguments out is to create enforced standards for them, but then we'll argue about the standards and how they're enforced, especially between 50 different registrars) will create more hassle and cost in registering. I don't have this hassle when I register my phone number or an advertisement in the phone book or a newspaper. Not only that, the standards that these registrar companies enforce on TLDs will probably be profit/self-serving at my cost. If they do manage to do some good for the public, it will be redundant because of the already-in-place law process, and that redundancy in this case means people registering get to experience the bad side of bureaucracy and meaningless cost.
6. If a website wants to state what it is, it can do so in their domain name or on their homepage or buried in their bogus privacy statement.
E.g.,
"columbiauniv"
"columbiaclothing"
"columbiago
(i.e., domain names. Notice that most websites already have this).
or
"You've reached Columbia University!"
"You've reached Columbia Clothing Company!"
"You've reached the Columbian Government!"
(i.e., on the home page. Notice that most websites already have this).
In the case of multiple companies:
"columbiachem"
"columbiaclothing"
"columbiaco
7. If a website doesn't want to state what it is, who cares? And if you do care (as I do sometimes), do you trust a registrar to do checks to the level of detail needed to verify that the ".com" or ".biz" attached to the domain really means a business? In any case, just because a company has "Inc." (Incorporated) after their name doesn't necessarily mean they do any useful or legal business. What does having a registrar verified ".biz" or ".com" mean to anyone? If I think I want to transact with them or believe something they're telling me, I'm still going to verify to myself, as I do with every business, that I'm getting a good deal.
8. There use to be a useful argument of, "It allows one organization to use "iamhere.com" and a different organization with the same name to use "iamhere.net". How are we supposed to support giving websites to different organizations with the same name?"
This was fine when there weren't that many organizations on the net, and the three organizations with "Columbia" in their name who wanted websites statistically would have had a good chance of being easily differentiated by ".com", ".edu", and ".gov". The idea was that organizations with the same name were probably serving very different needs and that there wouldn't be that many of them so a few TLDs describing very different services could provide a great way for them to use the same name. (Mostly. They still don't have quite the same name because they have a TLD attached).
Since the web explosion, there are many more organizations using the same name that provide overlapping services, or who want a truly unique name that can't be trumped by a TLD (see point 2). To maintain the TLD system working as it was originally designed to handle the problem, we'd have to have a general TLD to describe each of those over lapping services. Adding a couple
more TLDs won't satisfy this anymore -- allowing a columia.whatever for each organization. To accomplish that now with a hundred businesses using "columbia", we'd have to have a hundred TLDs. Why bother? This argument is also invalidated by point 2 -- many organizations want a truly unique name and end up registering multiple TLDs over the same domain name. Slashdot does this.
Different companies have had the same names for years and don't have much of a problem differentiating themself when they need to. If two companies wanting a
9. You can just rememeber one set of words, instead of one set of words plus a TLD. It is pretty easy now to remember what "." is attached to something because there are not that many TLDs. As the number of different TLDs increase, it'll get harder to remember. For example, if colleges drop ".edu" (and note how many colleges there are now offereing business services, and how many busniesses are offering teaching services, and how confused they're getting because they have to pick one or the other:
10. I don't know what to do about country TLDs yet. Because of world-wide lag, it still seems pretty useful knowing what continent a site is coming from up front when it's taking a while to load. Of course, this may be negated by the fact that companies are registering out-of-country TLDs for their word-play value, so "wayto.go" from the imaginary country of Gomania may actually be a server in Nebraska. In any case, I'd rather just remember "waytogo".
I think I should start a site on this somewhere.
Derek
You're an idiot. (Heehee, I copied that from one of your earlier posts...)
Gated communities are nothing but economic discrimination at its worst. And this type of discrimination usually takes into account all other types of discrimination including racism, sexism, elitism, etc. Your justification for separation of people is pretty disgusting, actually: Those "other" people aren't worthy to live near you. You have a level of society that you think is acceptable and you think that people who are below that level aren't worthy of your interaction. And you think this is fine? What an elitist you are... $10 says you have a gun in your house and you voted for Bush.
I don't mind people being rich. I mind when they think they are special or better because of it.
-Russ
Me
I'll wager in the next few years, a number of the alternative TLD companies will be long gone and we'll be back to the standard 3-6 TLDs as well as each country's TLD for it's citizens.
Anybody can qualify for a .wtf tld!
... um, uh
It would a mark of
Well, anyway, you better get yours now!
if you got a.pro, you could map gfname@gives.head.like.a.pro to her real e-mail address. Or something like that.
I always wanted has.a.phd.in.pimpology.from.colorado.edu back when I was in college. It would've been great on IRC.
any other ideas?
Synergy is your friend
.tv does the same thing, except they base the cost of the domain off of its projected popularity. For instance, maybe I want bill.tv for my domain name. Oh it will only cost $5000/YEAR! I wonder why no one has taken it? Go to www.tv and see for yourself. .pro goes, everyone may think that doctors, lawyers, and accountants have money coming out of their ears, but they also don't tend to buy junk they see on daytime television commercials, which is exactly what this .pro TLD is. Are they really going to shell out 10 times more for .pro when they can get any other one for cheaper? Professionals tend not to be stupid. .pro have proclaimed themselves as the "professional" registrar before they even have any customers. At $300 a pop the only people who buy these domains will be the same people who watch the home shopping network and reply to spam with their full information.
As far as
It seems to me that the folks at
-R
Hmm.. ANOTHER place that I'm going to have to send copies of my license, DEA, Med school transcripts to? Somehow I don't think so. Be interesting to see how they plan to set up this "gated community of professionals"
another f*cking gated community! Elitism is not dead, it just smells funny.
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected. -- Will Rogers
MOd MOD MOD MOD MOD.
Now, that doesn't make you an engineer any more than a BA in humanities makes you a Doctor or Lawyer. [aside] Doctor, here, is used in the Medical Doctor context, not PhD. PhDs generally depend on novel thought and intellegence, MDs depend on hard work and excellent memorization skills. No offense is meant to either, merely a distintion most people overlook. [/aside]
Now that you've graduated with a B Eng or BS form an Accredited college, you are eligible to sit for the Fundementals of Engineering exam. It's a simple 8 hour, two part exam which tests your general knowledge of engineering, mathematics and science. About 75% of those taking the test who have already earned an engineering degree pass the exam.
Congratulations, you're an Engineer In Training (EIT), and you're lower than dirt! Now you can be paid a modest starting salary to work long hours while you learn how the real world works and understand how engineers get stuff done. After four more years, you're qualified to submit your application to take the Principles and Practice Exam. Of course, you'll need to document all the work you've done for the last four years showing increasing complexity and responsibility in engineering, plus written recommendations from several colleagues who are registered engineers.
If you're application is deemed worthy, you'll be allowed to sit for another 8 hour, 2 part examination. Of course, this is a bit more difficult than the last. Pass rates generally hover around 50%-60% for first time takers. Some smaller/targeted fields have higher pass rates. Some have smaller (Structural Engineers passing both halves of the Structural II for last October: 14%).
Didn't pass the first time? No big deal, you can take it again - but don't get your hopes up. Passing rates the second time around drop to around half of the first-time takers. If you don't know the material, you can't just memorize more stuff and improve your chances - this stuff is for real!
That's what it takes to get a PE. Keeping your certification is not much different that other professions - continuing education credits are required each year in many states, nominal registration fees to each state in which you are licensed, and so on.
Given the advantages of co-ops and time to process registrations and exams the typical time to obtain your PE is about 9 to 10 years , given that you pass each exam on the first try. Please don't whine about 8 years to get your MD or Law Degree. It speaks poorly for your profession.
Overzeetop, PE
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
It's SLEAZY. Theres nothing good about it. They are trying to print their own money and that just doesn't fly with me. I'll just block all .pro domains from every network I have access to.
You get to put letters after your name as well.
It's my understanding that anyone can put letters after their name. If I want to be John Smith, MSAVC, I can put those letters after my name and nobody can stop me. I don't have any idea what MSAVC stands for; I just made it up. If you want to be a MSAVC too, you can also put those letters after your name.
I think certain letter combinations are illegal to put after your name by virtue of certain laws restricting their use to "certified professionals" (MD, P.Eng, and so on) but any random collection of letters is perfectly legal to include after your name.
I wonder about the status of MSCE, RHCE and so on, now that I think about it. I doubt most (or any) states/provinces have any regulations stating that "RHCE" is a recognized profession like MD or whatever, so how would anyone be prevented from using Joe Blow, RHCE? Would Red Hat sue you?
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
"The company says it will restrict .Pro to doctors, lawyers or accountants: 'qualified professionals in good standing ... "
Hmm. Pretty shortsighted to think that those are the only professionals out there.
--- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
Man, are you overpaying on your .com registrations. Make it 30 times...
As I keep saying, eliminate gTLD's altogether, and run with ccTLD's only. Copyrights and that can be regulated by the country that has proper jurisdiction. If you're truly international or whatever, you can use .int; that's what it's for. But then your copyright whining doesn't get settled in any national court system, but an independent body. That's the trade-off.
I know I've posted this view in much greater detail than the links above, but I can't find it with Google.
Constitutionally Correct
They may not be able to write something specifically in Perl or VB, after all that's an language specific implementation but I'd expect them to be able to analyse problems and design solutions.
After all, do Civil engineering CEngs mix cement? No, but they know the properties that the cement has and what you can use it for.
Deleted
pepsi.pro clear would only be on store shelves for 3 months, and then everyone would miss the cool refreshing taste.
Or something.
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
If you're in the market for a really nice house, the fact that it's in a "gated community" is an extreme perk, because it limits the amount of traffic (esp. unknown traffic) going around your house. If the gate is guarded by a person, it's even better.
"And like that
Putting MCSE, RHCE, CNE, CCNA etc after your name simply makes you look stupid. They are trivial certifications which are out of date within 18 months.
CEng is a professional qualification in the UK which has legal status. You can gain CEng status through the British Computer Society. Trying to claim that you are Chartered Engineer will end you up in hot water if you aren't one.
Deleted
Right now, those who register .pro addresses must submit credentials to prove they're doctors, lawyers or accountants.
Later on they will have to give blood and urine samples, along with a DNA analysis, a full physical, and a sample of there cereberal brain tissue. They will also be required to pay 3 million dollars annually...
I don't own a gun, I'm actually kinda anti-gun but not to the point of taking away anyone's rights, nor did I vote for Bush. I didn't vote for anyone. My political affiliation is "undefined."
As for the elitists, it works both ways. If there is someone out there who truly think that way, do you want them near YOU? Do you want them to interact with you with all of their snobbish ways? Think about it. Instead of that one family in every neighborhood which everyone knows is full of snobs who look down on the rest of the hood, they can all go off and make their own hood and be happy together. Who would miss them?
And its not the worst form of discrimination. How does someone who may be middle class or low income suffer from not being able to interact with the rich? Real economic discrimination keeps someone from advancing their station in life. Gated communities have nothing to do with that. A gated community can't stop you from going to school or starting your own company and striking it rich. Once you've done so, THEN you can move into the gated community. And you know, as long as someone treats you ok in public thats good enough for me. But a neighboorhood is like an extension of your home. You shouldn't have to be nice to a group of people you don't like. I know America is supposed to be eaglatarian and all but some people truly are beneath others. Who's to judge? You are. Each person is the judge for their own situation. You do it on a daily basis whether you want to admit it or not. I'm betting you've never sat down and played chess with a bum off the street or taken one out to dinner now have you? Maybe you have and you're a saint. Who knows, I just know most of us aren't saints. There's all types of gated communities you know. Gated communites obviously for rich white folks. Rich hispanic folks. Rich black folks. Rich asian folks. Mixed race rich folks. For entertainers. For businesssmen.
And its not that these people think they are better because they are rich. They've always thought they were better, even back when they were poor. They just now have the means to mold their worlds into the forms that they see fit.
What about non-gated communites? A community doesn't have to be gated to be exclusive. If you buy a $3 million dollar house in a neighborhood where prices that high are common, aren't you already in effect isolating yourself from the common man? Are those people being snooty too? Should we all just remain in the ghetto so that we don't dare deprive the poor of our pressence? Do they have a right to interaction with the rich or something?
I'm not rich myself yet. So I am forced to live amongst people whom I can only denigrate at best. Should I ever become rich though, I plan to take snobbery and make it into an artform elevating it to such a height that would make these folks in the gated communities look like humble, civic minded folk.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
He has lived in bad neighborhoods.
He has lived a non-elitist life with bad neighborhood people.
He has had all of his crap broken into.
He now wants a safe environment for his children and wife.
Even gangster rappers move out of the hood. If there is anyone that has respect and understands "the hood" as it is, I would assume it would be them. But even they move to better cribs when they get a spot of money... why? Because they're tired of the hassle. Basically they are tired of everyone giving them shit because they worked it all out.
As a person that has had my car broken into as recently as three days ago, I know how it feels to get stuff stolen. I would pay a little more to prevent that.
You act like you like the hood. That tells me that you obviously don't live there. No one living in the hood likes the hood. That is the surefire sign you know what is going on there. You obviously don't.
Let me quote you:
Yep, you would be an elitist alright. A cold and sterile rich guy living in your safe little world where no one is ever upset and nothing is every stolen. Much better than trying to stick it out in the 'hoods. Good for you, your parents will be proud and your children will be better people for your example.
Actually, you are exactly right, sarcasm aside. Do you want your children to be successful and safer? WE ALL DO. Then you fight to give them that priveledge. It is as natural to protect your loved ones and offspring as it is to breathe.
So you may now brand me as an elitist, if you feel a need to justify your "correct" thoughts in your head. You would be worng. I end up in "the hood" as a newsman covering the worst that humans do at least two days a week. Does that mean I think I am above them (the poorer people)? Hell no. But I do punch a clock all year long and fight for my vacations. Most of their lives are one long vacation from reality.
And don't even give me that "little opportunity in the hood" crap. I worked through college at fast food joints, and lived on a subsistence of generic mac and cheese. My mother borrowed money from me since the age of seven so she could feed us growing up... and grew up in an abusive household. By the standards that social workers and the government has I should be getting double payments just because I have "had a tough life." The poor little losers that need sympathy wouldn't be getting in trouble and running from the law if they were busy with a job like the rest of humanity. And don't give me that no jobs crap. Maybe no tech jobs right now, but sorry about that, but if I needed to I would quickly put a paper hat back on to feed my family. The last time I checked, both McDonald's and the United States Military will accept practically anyone. The second choice is a guaranteed meal every day. Unfortunately though, it requires WORK! GASP!
Besides, where in the big rules of nature does it say that you deserve a check every month for yor natural life for being born in a bad neighborhood?
Why is it that illegal immigrants can be in this country for five minutes, dodging people who want to deport them, cause few and little crimes, go to church, and still pay off their car note and start a business? Ask them if they love this country.
Not that I want to get all scientific and technical here, but they (the poorest few) are poor because they don't have jobs. Don't want jobs. Want the money but don't want to work. Get a job? Spend it on a stupid car that is ten times better than mine, and then get evicted for not paying rent. End up sleeping in an expensive car.
Here's another handy tip: Pregnancy might occur after unprotected sex. I have no urge to pay for children having children. Neither should you.
Ever been in the hood at 1:30pm on a Tuesday? I am all the time. Everyone is home. Why? They aren't working. Not the night shift. Not the overnight shift. No one has a damn J-O-B.
You are obviously not from the hood. My best friend has become a newsman in Dallas (a great job, keep in mind that newsies are a very small group of people) in under five years, and he didn't finish college, and he grew up in a trailer on a gravel road, dirt poor, born to an illegitimate birth, and penniless. It wasn't luck that got him there.
Explain that one in your elitist theory.
Personally, I think it would be better to throw away theories and judge people on individual merits.
Oh this has to be a joke!
It's like selling deluxe air or executive toilet paper! It'd piss me off if it wasn't for the fact that the dorks who get rooked by this scheme are exactly the kinds of people who deserve it. Probably the same kinds of idiots who buy executive parachutes, for chrissakes.
...and, is it just me or does this whole scam remind you of the executive intro to Monty Python's instant record collection?
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
...when I read this sentence. It has to be one of the best examples of clueless market-speak I've ever seen.
".pro will be a premium brand, enabling effective, secure communication between professionals and users for the first time in the history of the Internet..."
I can only see the latter part of this being true IF:
--They can slip their "effective, secure communication" in between all the spam floating around.
--They use good encryption software.
--They either use Internet II for their backbone, or start their own Internet.
See what happens when you let the marketdroids out of their cage?
Bruce Lane, KC7GR,
Blue Feather Technologies
so.. now we'll have people trying to get to www.imaprofessional.com.pro great. i can't wait to hear it from computer stupid people.
I write code.
Localization is sometimes a good thing, but IMHO using the domain name system to enforce it is really not a smart idea. Search engines and directories are far better suited to that complex task.
.com's and .co.uk's can be owned by anybody, not necessarily real businesses (though at least the ".ltd.uk" domain is meant to be only available to registered limited companies) "
.com, .org, and .net were scrapped was that they rapidly became unworkable when exposed to the real world. It's not gonna work any better today than it did then.
"there is not enough checking of the validity of peoples claims to them, e.g.
Er, what's a "real business"? A registered corporation? A consultancy? A mom-and-pop store? A hobby that makes a little money on the side? A private non-profit? Would you have to have a tax ID or something to prove that you're "real"? And why should the domain name system care about that? The reason that the original guidelines on
The good thing about the current system is that Bob down the street can promote his weekend lawnmowing business just as effectively as any corporation. The guy working out of his basement selling woodworking projects can sell just as easily to the UK as to his next door neighbor.
Forcing people to use an awkward, hierarchal backwater domain space that most folks cannot properly remember and which artificially limits their apparent scope of business to an arbitrary geographical location is completely counterproductive.
Just install the wonderfull software from Gator, and tell ICANN to shove off! With Gator, you can register, or even just surf, websites with nearly any TLD you want!
I once shot a man in Reno 'cause they cancelled Firefly.
If they want a gated comunity, they've got it. Setting up iptables and cron jobs to block anything thats .pro :)
-Polyhead-
I guess I'll just have to set filters .pro in it...
to deny anything with a
just for the sheer hate of Medical Professionals
in general...
besides...who actually LOOKS for dentists/gynecologists/opthamologists, etc
on the internet?
You think I would distrust them anyless because they have a nifty website? GIVE ME A BREAK!
If they want their own community...someone go set them up a slashMD.org site =)
and charge them a few bucks to throw advertising banners in the middle of articles and banners at the top of the screen...
"Just Smile and Nod." --Huck
"Supposed to" is right, but it's not like their track record is spotless.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
Realistically, you can get almost any domain name not in use that isn't a major English word for less than $100 now. The domain business is over. Verisign's profits are off because hundreds of thousands of domains are being released when they come up for renewal, and the few people still into domain hoarding are using cheaper registrars.
It'll be as popular as those solid gold diamond studded phones.
Google has made web site addresses and TLD's totally obsolete. Typing a few keywords into google is much more reliable than trying to guess or remember a site's URL.
"professional" is a latinate word that English gets from French. There is probably a similar word in Romanian, Italian, ... Since there are as many speakers of romance languages as English, that should make the premium value of a .pro address over a .com addredd twice as much. Of course, twice nothing is still nothing. I'm sure that market forces should (mostly, eventually) manage this attempt to exploit a monopoly.
Laissex faire, laissez passer.
www.anal.pro.be
Jesus saves....And takes 1/2 damage.
Wow, I guess you just can't stop people from economically stratifying themselves. What happened to "The Internet! Where people can read/post whatever they want." If I want "hotfastbarelylegalbabes.com" that's fine, but if I want "hotfastbarelylegalbabes.pro" I've gotta be an accountant?
.pro if I'm a orthodontist, but I can't give .pro legal advice if I'm a paralegal. hmmmm.
There's no reason for these people to be singled out. According to the article, they are not assigning the tld according to website content. They are offering it to people based on their profession. I guess my pr0n can be
<hippocrite mode="sarcasm">
"lawyers that need a brand that clearly identifies them."
What? You couldn't pick them out by their toothy smile?
</hippocrite>
sig
The application to ICANN refers to a $6.00 wholesale price. They were able to win the contract using that price point. To have the price go to $300 is unethical. link
wonder if any of these so called professionalswill be willing to pay 3 to 4 times the cost for the same service. Will this gated community assume financial laiblity for their members' ? I doubt that like hell so what you end up getting is a web site for 3 times the cost in a domain that has no draw, or history...sorry I think I will remain in the .com and deal with the rest of the internet minus the gated community BS.
But hell people pay for useless names and less ervice all the tmie so I bet this go overs big at first. Who the hell goes and looks for a Dr. or other specialist via the internet anyways. I would think Dr. referral was the single biggest ad these guys could have.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
why doesn't someone build one of these for the technologically elite?
Um, YES!
Free markets are wonderful, up until a supplier gets a monopoly. Or collusion starts up. Then the lovely free market rapidly turns into a bloodsucking operation.
This, kids, is why we have "government". It's sort of this organization we collectively create to protect our national interests. It requires politicians and statesmen, not business majors, to review markets and issue controls.
We are now commencing a wonderful experiment in government by anti-government zealots. Watch what happens... inflation, monopoly, and control of markets by people who don't have our national interests at heart.
They left the 'n' off the end.
Sleep is just a poor substitute for caffeine, anyway. -Bob Lehmann
That license might be worth the paper it's printed on, barely (and I know it's not printed at all). I would never trust any professional who is stupid enough to spend that kind of money on a domain.
"The commercialization of the net continues"
.pro the only omain available? Some people think that the internet is some kind of socialist playground, but they are dead wrong. The internet is as big as it is today because businesses saw that money could be made from it.
Are you trying to say that this is a bad thing? It seems that many Slashdot readers are really Socialists (although, I must admit, in replies to this story I have seen a few people that I agree with). Any capitalist would take advantage of any resource available to turn a profit. Just about every technological innovation is here because someone knew that they could make a profit from it.
If you dont want to spend $300 for a domain, then just don't buy it. Nbody is forcing you to. This company has a good Idea, and I hope they can make it work.
As for a monopoly, that is just bullshit. Since when is
As soon as I find a way to take advantage of the 'net to make money, I will do it, regardless of if it pisses you off or not.
http://www.lp.org
If not for the monopoly of whoever it is that holds control of the most popular TLDs, everybody anywhere would be able to register whatever they want. .com is supposedly US only (call it egocentric but it was probably because of historical reasons), but a lot of foreign companies have a .com URL, because it looks cooler than a *.[country-id] . There's also the mess with .to, .tv, .cx, .nu and whatever else there is that no longer belong to respective countries. The whole concept is getting pointless , I say we deregulate and let anyone choose anything. Nike could have http://just.do.it/ for example. Yeah, well, I bet no registrar would be willing to do that. And yeah, it'll be yet another fucking commodity where everyone will fight for "good" domain names, but if Nike isn't nike.com, people have to know what the domain name really is. It would then be pointless to squat on nike.[whatever] when a new [whatever] TLD comes alive.
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
If anyone at RegistryPro would care to answer the following (here, for all to see), please:
1) define "professional"
2) define "in good standing" (as in with who?)
3) justify restricting which profession may purchase a domain. I am a NETWORK professional, in good standing with MY peers. I work with a CCIE who also deserves consideration. Between the two of us, we have 20+ years of additional classroom education (I have two degrees, both below a Masters.)
4) prove this will enable secure communication between anyone involved.
As a web developer, I meet with many people on a daily basis regarding setting up web sites, improving web sites or adding functionality. Often the topic of the domain comes up. Wehn I say I can get the client a domain for a year for $10 as a .com, they're pretty happy. .com is a known extension that many users default to.
.pro domain for nearly 30x that amount, what do you think the reaction will be? A look of confusion, I guarantee you. .pro isn't established, and simply the price difference means nothing. "What do I get from .pro that I can't get from .com?" Just the quality that it's .pro is all I could tell the client. It doesn't matter how "professional" the domain is, when they can get a .ca, .com, or .net extention for 30x less, .pro doesn't even have a chance.
.pro area, there's no way of controlling that. The only way I could justify a $300 tab at the end of the year would be if the domain also came with some awesome server space and I got a free t-shirt with my domain on it...maybe a mousepad as well...and a new pair of shoes.
However, if I try to bring it past them that they have the other option of purchasing
The company (Verisign?) is obviously overlooking a very important fact: domain extensions don't have an overall effect on the quality of the web site. You're still going to get crap in the
To make a pun demonstrates the highest understanding of a language
That's about how much I'd pay for a Pro.
In fact, I'd rather pay $300 for a Pro than a .pro.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
Can you imagine the fucken fortune they could make with .ANTI ???
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
We should have leased the rights to a TLD, and charged a royalty of 50%.
--Blair
Seems like it would be the logical TLD for sites containing information about prostitution, where to find pros, what the going rates are for an area and so on.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
"There's no such thing as common sense. If there were, everyone would have some."
I can see the conversation with the registrar already:
.pro domain name for myself. Where do I fax my credentials?"
"Yes, my name is Seymour Edward Xavier, Ph.D. I'd like to register a
(If you don't get it, think about it for a minute.)
I'm betting that the .pro TLD will become pretty worthless just because the people approving assignment of .pro domains won't be able to verify/authenticate the legitimacy or professional competence and ability of the applicants. In the end, there will be a lot of .pro sites which don't really have respected or competent professionals. Anyone with a degree or certificate will be granted a domain, much like how commercial companies are granted .net and .org.
.pro domain. The reason 1-800-DENTIST is successful is because they are promising high quality dentists, and they make money by fulfilling that promise. I doubt .pro is really prepared or willing to do that. Someone check their business model.
Anyway, how do you find a lawyer, accountant, or doctor? I don't think you just search the Internet and pick the first few which return with a
Have they not proven themselves idiots yet?
1. Whats better than spamming random people you spidered off the .com .org and .net's? Targetting wealthy .PROfessionals.
.PRO is unknown. No amount of marketing is going to make it popular. The public fears change. That may sound cynical but its true. Did we all switch over to .WS for our WebSites? Nope. And noone is going to put thier .PRO at the forefront of thier internet marketing campaign. (And again, why a doctor needs an internet marketing campaign or even a website, I dont know)
2. The internet is a BIG place. No no REALLY big. Bigger than that man and I mean BIG. NOONE looks for a Doctor, Laywer, or accountant on the internet.
3.
Who owns the .dr tld? Seems as if it may be cheaper to get one of those instead of a .Pro tld.
- >>Is sitting on the toilet and reading a magazine also considered multitasking?
You beleive this? .pro website and host porn on it? .coms were only to be commercial sites, we all know what a joke that turned out to be! porn invested most .things pretty fast... I leave them a monthe or two before we start seeing "barely legal lawyers" on .pro sites (that would be a catchy title huh?)
Why would some lawyer not open a
how does one change his