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MS Asking Makers of 'Windows' Software To Rename
An anonymous reader writes "Today WebWereld is running a story (http://www.webwereld.nl/nieuws/13347.phtml) on Microsoft's attempts to stop other software makers from using 'Windows' in their names. Several software makers that are listed on the Lindows-list (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_home_list.php) have received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers. Basically Microsoft asks them to stop using the word 'Windows.' Windows Commander and Windows Spy have changed name as the result. Christian Ghisler (of Windows Commander) changed the name into Total Commander and Sureshot changed the name of Windows Spy into Farsighter.
Alexander Tchirkov of Windows Backup Wizard also received a letter from Microsoft, but he is not willing to change the name of his software, he tells WebWereld. 'I received a letter from attorneys Microsoft (SEED Intellectual Property Law Group) with the recommendation to change the program name into Backup Wizard for Windows(R).' Tchirkov says Windows is not a registered trademark in Russia."
How about X Windows?
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The problem is that the word 'Windows' can be used for those transparent panes of glass. I suggest we rename them to "Gates Holes" as in The microsoft building has HUGE Gates Holes.
Joel "Windows" West
... for creating a non-unique product name. If they want to control branding, then they better make sure to label the product "Microsoft Windows", or next time they can be a bit more creative.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Microsoft has a point. These companies are selling their products by the customer association with "Windows", Microsoft Windows. Of course, it's rather DUMB of them to do it, as when walking through a software store, seeing a bunch of programs marketed as "Windows This" "Windows That" creates a mindset in the consumer that Windows has a lot of programs running for it. Just like we have KOffice, KCalc...or GProducts.
"Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested." (LT 2004)
Anyway, it is a good thing that Wizard is not a registered trademark of Microsoft.
What stupid arrogant bastards!
What next? "word"?
Okay, that was a bit troll-ish, but really... Windows? It's a very common word, Microsoft. I remember when WIndows first appeared and I saw the name/logo. I thought, Yeah, that's about right. Such glaring uncreativity from the business app company. Windows. Uh huh.
Then it got scarier. Word. Office. Money. Microsoft's penchance for naming software after everyday items seems to have the subtext of usurping those items. Who hasn't had this conversation in a modern workplace?
"My office is really messed up, I've got to fix it."
"Your Office or office?"
"Huh?"
"MS Office or your real office?"
Totally asinine.
Did anything ever happen with the Lindows challenge to this practice?
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
The anderson window company also changed its name today. From now on the company is known as the Anderson looking glass company.
I remember in the run-up to the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta. The Atlanta Olympic Committee (AOC) was going after people aggressively. You just about couldn't even say "Olympics" without a license. There was some old family-run Greek restaurant, called The Olympic Diner (or somesuch) and they had been around for years. Of course, they hadn't _trademarked_ their name and the AOC made them change it.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
This reminds me of the case of MS against numerous local double-glazing companies (formerly known as 'Colorado Windows', 'Joe's Windows' and 'Windows Windows Windows').
The outcome of that case actually resulted in a proposal to Merriam-Webster to introduce a new alternative spelling of 'window' to 'whindow'. The M-W took up the offer as they like to change any words possible from British English for superiority reasons.. so now if you look it up, you'll see 'whindow' listed there.
mogorific carpentry experiments
Windows is a common word! I think I'm going to trademark the word Hello because it's the name of my product that I use to automatically hang up on telemarketers. Now I will have to request that everyone stops staying hello when greeting someone, or pay me a fee.
Can someone tell me when enough is enough? Vampires don't suck all the blood out of their victims, only MegaCorp does.
If only Microsoft would send their lawyers after those WinFix spammers...
-------
Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
I think they will try to copyright commode next.
Funny how just as I get to the end of the article I see an AD for The Microsoft Small Business Solutions Book Collection. But seriously, to the people making the aforementioned software titles STOP making software for Windows. I suspect this is only the beginning of your troubles. I bet in a few more years you will be hearing from these same lawyers and the argument that your first born now belongs to Microsoft because of the software you developed in 2002. Didn't you read the EULA?
These people have it coming! :-)
Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
AFAIK, they got turned down flat for a preliminary injunction in the Lindows case. With the judge expressing doubt that "windows" was a term that could be trademarked. So are these letters not an extra judicial effort to obtain by intimidation what they have been denied in court? If so, does it constitute contempt? Anyone have an informed opinion?
While I hate to say it, MS may have a small chancew of winning these. I don't like the idea of "Windows" being a trademark, but these programs weren't using windows in any generic sense. They were obviously using the term to refer to MS Windows. Windows Commander gave you better control of your MS Windows. Windows Spy let you spy on MS Windows. If the programs also worked under say XWindows they could claim they were using it as a generic term, but as it stands, they were obviously referencing MS Windows, which may put them on shaky ground.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
"Window Cleaning for the 21st Century" http://www.boners.com/grub/788217.html I wonder what kind of 'letter' they'll get?
If they had tried that before the Lindows case, they might have had a leg to stand on. But the judge's findings in that one do not bode well for MS. I'd say, stuff'em.
But does anyone doubt that the software in question is playing off the Microsoft Windows brand and mark ? I'd understand the argument if the software described did things totally unrelated to MS Windows, but I bet (without actually looking up these products) from the sounds of their names that their functionalities are intimately related to MS Windows.
As for whether or not Windows is a registered trademark in Russia or not, I have to say I'd be very, very surprised if it is not. And if it isn't , then someone in Russia ought to go and register that trademark NOW. In fact, it makes me wonder why the Russian programmer in question wouldn't register the trademark if only to protect HIS mark.
Wonder if you can even use the word Windows *anywhere* in your ad campaign...
Sure they have to defend a trademark or loose it, but this is a bit silly.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Now would M$ add windex to the list?
;-)
I mean it is a windows product
Not windex, windex!
Come on Slashdot editors, the whole reporting-on-M$'s-every-move thing is getting REALLY old now. Do you realise that the people who are capable of thinking for theirselves are generally rolling their eyes at almost every headline posted? Why don't you try being a little less biased, and maybe we won't think you are all whining geeks. Sure, nothing wrong with being a geek, as long as you embody some of the positive qualities rather than all of the negative ones.
Moderators: Mod me down all you like, but perhaps a better use of your time would be to reply with constructive criticism.
Vendors have been calling things 'XXX for Windows' for years. M$ liked it to start with because it enhanced the visibility of their operating system.
...
Then they came to not bother, everyone knew about M$ Windows.
Now they are trying to grab control of a generic word so that they can get at 'Lindows'. Sorry: precedence has been set for such a long time.
The above is the rational view. To know what the legal view is, first find a dice
"monopoly"
So why did Windows Commander change it's name? I mean, the name pretty much sums up what it does, it has brand recognition...and I assume they have an up-to-date lawyer (one familliar with the recent Lindows case). So why? Did MS threaten something, or what?
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
Isn't a window the wrapper within which applications are spawned? Isn't this independent of the type of operating system that is used? If so, then windows commander is the application that allows you to move around from window to window as if you were the commander of a fleet of windows. Makes sense to me. What's the big deal?
On the other hand, if a window is simply a term that was coined as a result of the OS, then they have a good point.
Any help?
If your product does something useful, people will associate any name you choose with the functionality of your product. Just because your product runs on Windows or is written in Java, you should not feel that you should include the word in the title. Just because your software is an FTP client, you don't have to name it JoeFTP.
Naming your product similarly to another project piggy backs on their efforts. I would rather have my stuff stand on its own merits. Naming after functionality, platform, or language can later be limiting if you ever want to expand your functionality or port it to other platforms.
YUOR A BIG FAT STUPIDS AND YUO NOW IT TO!
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As a previous post mentionedm the term WIndows in these software titles is referring to MS Windows - it is not being used in a generic sense. And to have the software title be "Windows Backup" or "Windows Extender" or whatever makes the product seem as if it came from Microsoft as an add-on for Windows - ala "Windows Plus!" Changing the name to "Backup for Windows" or whatever makes it more clear that the product is intended for use with MS Windows but it not made by MS.
I think that would be better for everyone, but I don't think MS has any legal clout to force the issue.
Posted by Hemos on Friday, November 29, @7:32PM
from the 500-pound-gorilla-named-Steve dept.
Clevername writes "It's not like we didn't see it coming. Micro$oft has apparently decided once again that all our Windows are belong to them. This time they're attempting to stop the use of the word Windows in all software packages but their own. This has affected such software packages as Total Commander (nee Windows Commander) and Farsighter (nee Windows Spy). When will the madness end? Another reader pointed us to this list of potential targets. Will I have to start getting Microsoft's prmission to rennovate my house?
( Read More... | 4 of 330 comments | Your Rights Online
Last post!
Swedes don't excel at Excel.
A Swedish software firm named Excel and founded in 1983 lost (IIRC) to Microf*ck's software named Exc*l, in 1996 or so...
A door is a door... Plural its "Doors"... A window is a window... Plural its ....Guess we have to rename that one don't we...
Hey buddy... Go over there and open those windowetts.
If you've already lost a trademark by not enforcing it, it's too late to do anything about it. You can't start sending nasty letters to people one day and say "ok NOW it's a tradmark"!
If only this applied to patents...
In trademark law, it's not important if it is a common word - it's important if it is a common word for a certain groups of things.
"Windows" is registered trademark for Class 9 of the Nice classification: "Computers; computer software programs; computer components; computer peripherals; holograms.", of course it is not a trademark for parts of houses.
Nevertheless, there is evidence that "windows" was a common term for something GUI-like before (X-Windows, Openwindows...).
Friday, November 29, 2002 - Microsoft has asked manufacturers of software with the name 'Windows' to choose a different name.
by Maarten Reijnders
This appears after a quick tour along the manufacturers of software listed on the lindows.com site. The makers of 'Windows Spy' and 'Windows Backup Wizard' received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers, as they confirmed to WebWereld.
Earlier, the maker of 'Windows Commander' had changed the name of its program into 'Total Commander'. He did so after having received a letter from Microsoft's lawyers.
The Russian maker of 'Windows Backup Wizard' decided not to conform to the request he received from Microsoft in July. Alexander Tchirkov of Windows Backup Wizard: "I received a letter of Microsoft's lawyers with the recommendation to change the name of my program into 'Backup Wizard for Windows(R)'."
"I am not planning to change the name of my program. But Christian Ghisler (maker of Windows Commander, MR) had already been forced to change the name of his software, so anything is possible", says Tchirkov who points out that Windows isn't a registered trademark in Russia.
Software manufacturer Sureshot, however, did decide to change the name of the program 'Windows Spy' into 'Farsighter'. "Microsoft appears to possess the term 'Windows'", Jon, of Sureshot, sighs.
Windows Commander, Windows Backup Wizard, and Windows Spy are mentioned on a list composed by the manufacturers of the Linux-based operating system Lindows. The company plans to use this list in a juridical procedure that Microsoft has started against Lindows.
Microsoft believes that 'Lindows' is too similar to 'Windows' and demands therefore that Lindows stops using that name. In March, the judge ruled that Lindows is allowed to use the name until the final decision of the court.
Since the list at Lindows.com was published, it appears that not only the names of Windows Commander and Windows Spy have been changed, but also the ones of Windows Network Booster and Windows Personalizer 2000. At least, the programs are no longer available at their original name at Download.com
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
When I see the name "Windows Backup Wizard", I assume that its a wizard included with Windows to do backups, and as such, an MS product. However the name "Backup Wizard for Windows" is much clearer in showing that it is not part of the Windows OS. They just don't want to be blamed if something goes wrong with that software and someone's hard drive get eaten.
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage. RAmen.
"Tchirkov says Windows is not a registered trademark in Russia."
Heh.. I hope he doesn't plan to ever come to the US :)
Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me
Besides lots of thigs run on windows besides software. Windex runs on windows, bird shit runs on windows.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The name Windows Backup certainly gives the impression that it might be produced or sanctioned by MS (as THE Windows Backup Wizard or some such) even though MS isn't in the habit of calling things "Windows Doongle Dongle".
First off, this isn't a generic use of the word "Windows" and saying so is really stupid. Similarly, I surely hope I wouldn't be able to call my new product "Sun Network Management Administrator" (even though sun is a dictionary word). I would expect to be able to sell "Sun Dishwasher Liquid" (although that would be a poor name for a network management system) or to make a movie called "Solaris".
They may not be able to win, as (as other's have pointed out) I don't know that they have a trademark on the word "Windows". Either way, in the "spirit of the law", this is a reasonable request. The suggested alternate name is a perfectly reasonable compromise (it's clearer, too), and I'd suggest that they don't want to switch to it specifically because they want to continue getting goodwill off of their current name and/or get free press.
And don't bother telling me MS is evil - in this case that would be a real strong signal of a dull, well-rutted mind.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
You would think a huge corporation like that could think of some better names for Software... If they have a problem with other companies using the word "Windows"... why don't they pick something that isn't a word and trademark it.
MS News Flash...
Windows is no longer called Windows... Its now called DOUH (Denial of useful Hardware). Any company who uses this trademark in there name will be sued... Oh yeah and by the way. DON'T TRUST US!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
By clearing the playing field of other people using "their" word, it strengthens Microsoft's legal hold on the word Windows. Remember, in the Lindows case, Dvorak and others testified that using "Windows" or "Win" in product names was common practice to denote compatibility or suggested usage, and thus Lindows should be allowed to use it like everybody else (Winzip, windowssucks.com, etc.)
If enough vendors cave in to Microsoft's request, MS will be able to come down harder on those who disobey or try to use it without permission, by showing that it is *NOT* a common practice to use the word Windows and should thus be disallowed.
This strengthens the monopoly considerably.
BlackBolt
I find the Microsoft posts interesting and useful. This sort of badgering (by posting headline after headline) keeps us informed of Microsoft's (generally shitty) moves. Slashdot is definately biased and the editors have admitted it in the past. Perhaps you aren't aware that you can remove all Microsoft stories from your view in your user preferences?
-Sean
Window, huh?
I don't understand why these smaller companies don't just stand up to Microsoft and take them to court. I mean, I think the Department of Justice and various states demonstrated pretty clearly that all you need to go up against Microsoft is millions of dollars and a small army of lawyers. If you don't believe me, or squeak something about DOJ not really being successful, consider "little guy" Sun Microsystems, who sued over Java.
More seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I can understand Microsoft wanted to protect its branding -- names like Lindows are meant to draw people away from MS Windows -- but they're just bullies.
You know, a real solution would be for someone to come up with a new metaphor, or paradigm.
But I'll never cave to this intimidation! See, I've bared a Window® into my soul. This is our Window® of opportunity to take a stand against this Window® dressing. It's our Window®
Damn, it's getting stuffy in here, excuse me while I go open the f*cking Window®.
Just think how many times the numbers "95", "98", and "2000" have been used in the past year.
Ch-ching, ch-ching.
There a lot of programs that use the "Win" prefix in their names, like "WinZip, WinFax, WinAmp, et al". Or OTOH there are products with the descriptive appendix "...for Windows". Are these products under fire as well, or is this simply associated with putting Lindows out of business for good?
As any avid /.er knows already, we can from here on out refer to any incarnation of Windows (software, automotive, or building portal) as a "security hole."
"Dear ___,
Please cease and desist the use of the phrase "security hole" as this is a registered trademark of the Microsoft corporation. As is well known throught the international community, we make the biggest and best security holes, and wouldn't want people to confuse your small, easily fixable holes with our more presigious, gaping security holes (heretofore refered to as "new features" and/or "Outlook") in all of our software products.
Thank you for your time.
Friends help you move. Real friends help you move bodies.
Company A contacts company B and says "you can't use the name X for your product, we suggest you use Y".
So, company B obliges....
What the fuck? Why? If X is something as generic as Windows and is not trademarked, I can use it for whatever the hell I like.
Does this mean we may not use Office, Money, Exchange etc. etc. in naming our porducts? I have an incredible itch to challenge this.
Sigged!
microscope 'Windows' within, softwarenaam may not
Friday, 29 November 2002 - Microscope has various make-up with software with within the reputation 'Windows' in request to one other reputation within vote.
Is Timothy manipulating us ?!
This is offset by the initial benefit you get when you chose it. Choose a generic non descript name and your effort to make it stick in peoples mind is MUCH harder than using a descriptive name.
Take the story we had the other day about eVISA. The Credit card organization chose VISA precisely because it was a well known word with a meaning that dovetailed with their positioning idea. IE Something that allows you to go some place with no problem. They got the benefit now live with the drawback.
Now Windows. What the F.... It was chosen because it described exactly what the program was trying to do with a metaphor that everyone understood. They reaped the benefit now they should live with the drawback, or change themselves.
Good initial names that turns on the corporation is common. Take Kentucky Fried Chicken. They now spend millions to get rid of the Fried connotation as they repositions themselves as KFC. Does that mean that using the initial name was foolish? No, They wouldn't have got to where they are without the initial descriptive name.
Same can be argued for Microsoft's Windows,
Help fight continental drift.
Try and make a steering wheel cover and call it Porsche Commander and claim that it makes you drive your Porshe better, Porshe would sue your balls off.
... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed...
Windows is a generic term. It always has been a generic term and always will be a generic term. In every GUI, different frames of programs are called "windows". "Windows" should have never received a trademark in the first place, as it was generic when the trademark was granted.
Thus, no one should heed MS's demands to change their name. The Lindows case already proved the "windows" trademark was void.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Windows--Windows++Windows||Windows>>Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows Windows
/.'s shit about that one...
Now, let's see how fast MS is all over both
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Microsoft asks you to remove any references about Windows on referring to those holes in the walls of the buildings. Please start it by removing any reference of it from King Arthur's tales...
Now apart of jokes... In Russia, Microsoft can go fishing. While Windows is an english plural name, apart of the fact that we speak Russian (windows is okna or fortochki in Russian), Windows is still a common name. Under Copyright Law, common names cannot be covered in any way by copyright.
ugh.. can I spell or what...
I thought the trademark was on "Microsoft Windows" not just "Windows". I mean really, if I trade mark something like "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." I can't go on and claim ownership to "Stuff that matters", or "Nerds" can I?
hoping the guys that own the "monopoly" board game trademark don't sue..
and is intimidated enough to change the name of WinAmp. Seems like rough just for the whole FreeAmp -> Zinf event
Someone should dig up the old Apple vs M$ case and waggle it in court during these new M$ vs Anything-Called-Windows cases. Would be fun to watch M$ backpedal and explain their way out of their own words.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
...what a pane having to change so many names...
crazy dynamite monkey
Comment removed based on user account deletion
ie. Was it a "friendly" request that they consider changing their name or did they actually threaten them with something?
If it was the former, then it's up to the owner of that product to decide whether or not he/she would like to change. If it's the latter, then MS are definately pushing the boundaries.
Mind you, seems to be a completely silly thing to get upset about, after all, "Windows Blah" implies "Blah for Windows" - so I really can't see the point in asking for a name change.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
All major real estate agents in the US have received letters from Microsoft lawyers suggesting they replace all references to 'windows' with 'optical apertures'. So how many optical apertures are there in your bedroom?
I amd the recipient of one of these letters. Here's the deal:
I was told to stop using the term Windows(tm) in conjunction with my home improvement project. I was informed that now I have to call the items openings especially in the wall of a building for admission of light and air that is usually closed by casements or sashes containing transparent material (as glass) and capable of being opened and shut .
This has put a real crimp in my dealings with my contractor. They think I'm crazy for using such a long phrase when a common word would suffice.
Is that insane, or what?
This is a very bizzare trademark:
Windows
Printers? Is there something I'm missing?
There's a huge implication made by calling something "Windows Widgets" instead of "Widgets for Windows" The latter implies that it's an add-on utility for the Microsoft OS, while the former implies a more direct relationship. If enough people eased up on the bandwagon MS-bashing, they might see the point.
I have a strange feeling that if Microsoft came out with a product called "MS Linux Toolset" the vast majority of people here would have an aneurysm. They may be a little less rabid about "MS Toolset for Linux"
That could have been intentional, you know. :-)
bird shit runs on windows.
Now that's funny.
Microsoft puts SC Johnson on notice that it will need to change the name of it's popular glass cleaner from Windex to another name that will no longer infringe on Window's good name and image.
"We don't appreciate any product that claims to do more work in half the time as other competative products" stated a spokesperson for the large software vendor. "This claim that appears on the www.windexglasscleaner.com website emphasizes and strengthens our position".
It appears that Microsoft will stop at nothing to protect it's product from smears and streaks.
Trademark's are defend it or lose it. Unlike a Trademark, Copyright and Patents can be selectively enforced or licenced with no bearing on the status of the Copyright or Patent.
The RIAA rushed to the artists' defense and had this to say: "Bug off".
A court battle of unprecedented magnitude and length is expected to follow as the two Titans square off.
Elsewhere in the news ...
- a worldwide shortage of lawyers is forecast for the next 5 years for obvious reasons
- Webster's dictionary is bracing itself for a legal battle with Microsoft for including some definitions of the word "Windows" other than "An inexpensive and secure computer operating system from the philanthropic people at Microsoft (All praise Microsoft!) that should by law be the only operating system allowed on any computer".
- Home Depot has been requested by Microsoft stop advertising "We Sell Windows" and are evaluating a suggestion from Microsoft that they instead advertise "Well Sell Transparent or Semi-Transparent Glass Coverings for Holes Often Found In The Sides of Buildings and Other Structures That Usually Allow The Passage Of Some Degree Of Light"
Sigs are bad for your health.
All Microsoft is doing is running a bluff. Companies do this sort of thing all the time. For example when they give you an employment contract to sign they don't tell you that you can change the contract; they try to bluff you into signing it as it is.
If the companies back down Microsoft wins. If they go to court Microsoft will eventually fold - but only after it costs the other company a lot of money. Most companies fold because they can't afford the monetary hit; even though Microsoft hasn't got a legal leg to stand on, and has lost in court every time they have tried to enforce a trademark on the word "windows".
Guess what? Not everything in life is fair. Microsoft's behavior - if you don't recognize it - is exactly that of a school yard bully. They figure they can get away with it, and so far no court has been willing to give them a bloody enough nose to get them to stop.
Trademarks like ASPIRIN and ESCALATOR are no longer trademarks because people begun calling those types of products by their trademark. ESCALATOR could still be a real trademark if people were told to call it ESCALATOR BRAND moving stairway. Since people say WINDOWS when they mean OPERATING SYSTEM, Windows is generic like the court says! Remember, Asprin and Escalator used to dominate the whole market so NOT using their name was hard... But the terms died!
;) And if it doesn't, maybe the ruling stands that it is generic!
This is a HUGE win. I wonder if Microsoft will keep pursuing this to higher courts to be told that their trademark is still generic? That's a big risk, and they may or may not.
However, they are showing they are Enforcing their trademark, which is a good way to demonstrate that they care about the trademark. Still, they might fall to something else..
WHY????? Here's the scoop: If a court declares a trademark to be generic, then it is closer to its death.
It is very simple. Trademarks like ROLLERBLADE could go to genocide when people keep saying "I'm gonna go rollerblading." That's why ROLLERBLADE has been putting ads to remind consumers these are ROLLERBLADE BRAND In-Line Skates.
when people refer to those types of products by the trademark name
then it stands to become generic. I suspect the way it happens is through courts.... That's why I suspect Microsoft might not pursue the generic argument in higher courts
So, the term Windows is now generic. YOU CAN USE IT FREELY. Microsoft used the term Windows, which is like generic already especially in windowed operating systems. However, its biggest death is that Microsoft did not use the term "Windows Operating System."
A LOT of people talk about Windows when they should be saying "Operating System(s)". Hence, Windows IS generic like the court says. THATS Why the court said it's generic, not because Windows are real glass things in real life...
Cover your eyes and click this link!
That Phoenix changes its name to "Windows of Perception" or something similar
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Look it the fuck up for christsake.
No matter how many times you guys repeat the mistaken belief that you cannot Trademark dictionary words, it will not make it so.
Dictionary words can, and are trademarked all over the world. Trademarks however, are narrow in scope, usually pertaining to a particular type or product or business.
Like Wieners
Microsoft chose to call their product "Microsoft Windows" in an attempt to get product-company association. That's fine, but they forego the ability to attack people making products called "Remote Windows" or "CacheWindows".
Oh, they'll probably make some stupid case about how the thing is close enough to cause confusion, but I have a hard time seeing a judge buying it.
May we never see th
I laughed so hard that I spit coffee out my nose (not pleasant).
This is just plain WRONG. How is this modded Insightful?
Nullsoft is owned by AOL Time Warner. The likelyhood of them getting a letter is zero, (or close) AOL would probably welcome such a request as they can go to court and most likely invalifdate MS' right to the generic name windows.
Help fight continental drift.
Straight from the Summary, Microsoft suggested the Backup product be renamed to Backup Wizard for Windows(R). -- Note the acknowledgement that Windows is a Registered Trademark.
That could have been intentional, you know
:)
Haha.. I thought the same thing myself after I posted my second reply there. I'm glad someone else thought so too.
It's kind of ugly for everyone involved. "window" is definitely a generic term for a windowing interface. When MS chose the term "Microsoft Windows", they sure as hell weren't thinking of trademark issues.
The problem is that then Lindows came out. Now, "Lindows" isn't just a windowing system -- it's an operating system, rather similar to what MS is selling. Furthermore, Wal-Mart sells these damn little boxes to people who have little computer experience and say that they have "Lindows" and are "Windows compatible". There's a pretty good case for confusion there if you have an inexperienced buyer. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Lindows people -- I think it's fair to claim that they were trying to take advantage of confusion.
So MS sues them. Probably the only justified legal move MS has made in the last decade. The judge not *only* denies the injunction, but states that "Windows" is/has become a generic term. So now Microsoft is panicking and trying to do damage control to regain control of their product name. They go after everyone using Windows to try to build up a stronger case for future trademark infringement suits. There's nothing MS would hate more than ten companies out of China selling WINE+Linux+GNOME systems called "Super Windows".
Frankly, this whole thing wouldn't have happened if the Lindows people hadn't pulled their attempt to grab a little MS market share...
May we never see th
The GTK/GTNOME people did it at first, but there's so much GNOME software now that it's pretty much abandoned -- essentially no new software starts with a g.
The KDE folks are still guilty. It makes the product names sound *dumb*, not "integrated" or whatever they're trying.
May we never see th
Imagine I create a software company and name it Moo Software, create a digital photo album program, and then start it selling as MS Photos, would it be right? Microsoft probably does not hold a trademark on MS but still would I make a confusion?
If I create a RDBMS for OS X and call it Oracle for Mac (oracle is a common word), would it be right?
If Microsoft names its next OS GNU/Windows (gnu is a common word), would it be right? What would slashdotters say?
If I name my product SYWYXOQ, get a trademark on it, and then it turns out, that sywyxoq is a common word in some Polinesian language, does it invalidate my trademark?
If enithin kan gow rong it whil. (Murfey)
Sex - Find It
Wow... news for me. But "Total Commander"? Sounds shitty. I would've advised the guy to rename it to "Linux Commander".
Perhaps someone could make a laundry detergent named Windows and Microsoft would be forced to get a sense of humor.
If some open source company was to ask people to stop using THEIR trademark, it would be okay right?
This move on M$'s part will dilute the trade marks of all the other companies involved and confuse each and every one of us. Take the "Windows Commander" example. Christian worked for years building up a name and reputation. Can you tell me what he's changing his name to without scrolling up the page? Christian just got ripped off and his new program is indistiguishable from many other utilities that do the same thing.
Nothing new really. Do business with or have anything to do with M$ and you will be burnt.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Everybody, let's change everything to include "Windows". For example; Windows GIMP, Windows Xcalc, Windows X Window, Windows XBill, Windows Xterm, Windows Xminicom, etc. Let's see how fast Microsoft can stop everybody. I am calling this post a " Windows Post ". Now, I need to climb out of Windows, later folks!
Also, if you are selling your house, you can no longer use the term Windows, you now have to call them "looking holes" or "those things made of glass"
my sig
are numerous X-Windows builds for Windows. I use StarNet's X-Win32 myself, on of course the rare occasions that I'm forced to use Windows. What do you have to say about that?
The next step in the bullying will be to contact companies like Winzip Computing and force them to change the names of their software. Microsoft will claim to own "Win" and claim exclusive use.
And that means they go after all of the Spammers who send out the "Win a free vacation" emails. Slashdot will be forced to take the sides of spammers, which will be a distasteful but neccesary alliance.
And ultimately Microsoft goes after the companies that make those big clear glass things you look through.
or maybe just becoming truly paranoid. Is it my imagination, or would these legal eagles trademark every possible combination of letters which form intelligible words as defined by an agreed-upon authoritative reference such as the Unabridged Oxford dictionary, if it were possible to do so?
It makes you wonder whose definition of "practical" the legal industry uses, and why on Earth should it prevail?
In the vein of being "practical", just try to read and understand an EULA or a mortgage contract from start to finish without assistance. Buzzards, the whole lot of 'em.
Well, ok maybe I've been reading The Register too much lately...
C|N>K
According to the Jargon File [tuxedo.org], it was so named because it was the successor of an earlier window system called "W".
In the beginning there was 'B', then came from it 'C'. Followed by C++, which is technically 'D'(stemming from the ++ operator).
Unfortunately an infidel has broken the 'ye olde code of law' and mistified everyone with C#. How does C# follow? Is it from C? or is it from C++?
Rather, the infidel has created a bastard language after sipping some java!
Microsoft can't try to defend their Windows Trademark (which is in computer software) against Companies that make glass Windows, or Companies who install Windows in cars, or who create decorative Window artwork.
Just computer software, and especially when there is substantial risk of dilution of their trademark or confusion over the nature of the products. Which is precicly why they suggested that the Backup Software be changed to Backup Wizard for Windows(R). There is no risk of confusion that the product is actually sanctioned by Microsoft, and it acknowledges the Microsofts registered trademark.
I thought the loss to Lindows set the precedent that MS cannot prevent people from using the word 'windows' in naming their software product. Hell, Linux and Unix have had xWindows for years now. No copyright or trademark infringement there. It's a descriptive term.
This really baffles me.
That's not a joke. The window industry's trade association is called the National Fenestration Rating Council.
My mother made an apple (tm) pie and put it at the window (tm). The day was beautiful, the sun (tm) was shinning.
For the years Microsoft had been naming its product with simple and pronoucanble names, like Windows, Office, Word, etc. After reading slashdot for a while, the company executives decided that the /. community was right and so the company will not longer use generic names. And now, for something completely different ... MSFT is naming its products: .NET, C#, J#. What's next - MS %^&-_-34?
If enithin kan gow rong it whil. (Murfey)
If you want to use the Word(TM) "Windows(TM)" as part of your software you're fucked. MS has already proved they they're more powerful than the DOJ(TM pending) since Heir Ashcroft took Office(TM). They are now free to do what they want and continue business as usual.
For example how do you think X-Box(TM), (no relation the dedicated computers running X Window System(TM) ), is going to beat the PS-2(TM), (no relation to the PS/2(TM) by IBM(TM) )? MS(TM) is simply going to buy the 3rd party vendors, or make them sign exclusivity rights until there are no games available for the PS-2(TM) or Game Cube(TM)
Expect a letter from Blizzard Entertainment very soon.
Microsoft sure as shit didn't invent the word "windows", nor even its use in describing a GUI for a computer, nor even the concept of a windowing GUI.
They put out the biggest turds on the planet.
I'm sorry that I couldn't think of another OS that had a dictionary word as its name. I had figured my intent would be clear enough. I suppose "Macintosh File Thwicky" would maybe have been a little better example, though a little outdated in terms of what would actually be confusing.
But according to your scheme, I should still be able to write my tool for "Sun Networks". "Sun Network Management Administrator" - that's just descriptive. Similarly, I could write a tool called "Microsoft Network Admin Tool". I'm just describing what it does, not passing myself off as Microsoft. (And does it really matter how many people would refer to something as a "Sun Network"? Lots of people talk about Microsoft networks, and we're trying to be hypothetical).
I think we need a reasonable standard in terms of what's reasonable and descriptive and what is wrongly confusing to consumers. I posit that the name "Windows Backup Wizard" crosses what is at least a reasonable definition of that line. Where exactly that line is might be hard to legally define, and I certainly don't know how things will turn out in this case.
But given that there's at least a potential for this kind of confusion, why didn't this company just agree to change the name? Perhaps they benefit from this confusion? Perhaps they want free air time?
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Microsoft cannot do this and if they took it to the courts I think it would fail (assuming that the defendant does not run out of money). This is because the Computer Defintion of Windows is Windows A trademark for any of a series of GUIs or GUI-based computer operating systems. - Dictionary.com The definition is NOT "A Microsoft Operating System". It is a GUI- for a series (does not specify microsoft) of Operating Systems. They cannot copyright a word like they are trying to do and if they can copyright the word then someone else could easily copyright the name George and sue everyone with that particular name claiming that friends and relatives are confusing him with other Georges.
selling some product called 'Hole in wall with glass'.
If Microsoft tries to limit the use of windows in non MS software name then you migh here the following dialog in your local software store:
Customer: - What platform does program XYZ run on?
Salesperson: -It runs on MacOS-X, Linux and other commnyly know systems
Customer: - Does it run on windows?
Salesperson: - I really can't say
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
WINDOWS is generic. Words that describe the main feature of a good or service are generic even though it seems like they would be only descriptive. Thus, ATTIC was held descriptive for fire-sprinklers that were only mounted in the attic of a house. See In re Central-Sprinkler Company
20 years ago, WINDOWS may have been descriptive, because GUI interfaces were not common. You may wonder why the PTO didn't hold it generic, because it was a main feature, but a window was not necessarily a main feature of software back then. The PTO won't refuse registrations for things that may become generic.
So descriptive words (like WINDOWS back in 1983) are capable of TM protection by showing secondary meaning... I believe MS did make that showing back in the day, thus, they received a registration.
MS is running into the classic problem that Bayer ran into with ASPIRIN (which is still a registered trademark BTW), Xerox ran into with XEROX a couple of years back. Their mark has become generic and there is no way that a generic word can function as a source identifier. At least, I guess until MS tries to make it so.
Still, I'd love to see somebody with the cajones enough to try to cancel the WINDOWS trademark.
These are all the listings I could find for the single word "Windows" that are registered to Microsoft.
Just from a cursory look at these, it would appear that the only way you could use "windows" in reference to a computer or electronic device without fear of a cease and desist letter from Microsoft would be to say, "If there weren't windows in my computer room, I would never see daylight."
Listing 1, Listing 2
Listing 3, Listing 4
Listing 5, Listing 6
Listing 7, Listing 8
Listing 9, Listing 10
Listing 11, Listing 12
Listing 13
~Philly
Another replyer made your point much better than you did.. Go read my response there if you really want an answer.
They aren't calling it Microsoft or MS but a generic word: Windows. Calling it Solaris blablabla would be OK.
Calling it "Solaris Backup Wizard" would be OK? Is that what you meant to say, because I think Sun would have a shot at getting "Solaris Backup Wizard" shot down as confusing to consumers? Wouldn't "Backup Wizard for Solaris" be a clearer title?
If your case is instead that "Windows" is a generic word and doesn't get the same protection, then you may well be right in terms of how this case turns out. However, I think it's silly to pretend that "Windows" could have been referring to anything but the MS operating system in this case.
Just run winver and you'll see it's Microsoft (R) Windows. Every application I've seen says Microsoft blablabla
"Hmm. I'm not sure who wrote this Backup program. Was it Microsoft? I guess I could look at the box, but instead I'll buy it, take it home, and read the about box."
I don't think they're worried that "Windows Backup Wizard" is going to be confusing to people who have any idea what they're doing. However, it's certainly potentially confusing to MS's consumer base.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Perhaps Linux can be used for cleaning windows
God is REAL! Unless explicitly declared INTEGER
..the RIAA rejoices, embraces Microsoft's opinion, and insists it's illegal to own previously recorded records, tapes, discs, etc. with the word Windows in them.
Spokeswoman Hillary Rosen sez, "Buy more CD's, you thieving bastards!"
The point of the WWW is to be able to link to information! Deep links that expire are an abomination! Tim Berners-Lee is spinning in his grave (or would be, if he were dead)!
~Philly
It is the same rhetoric that we have heard before from many companies & entertainers, but we tend to get a bit more of this garbage from MS.
MS have a very large team of in-house lawyer & they need to do something to make it look like they are actually working. If they have their way of doing thing we would see MS eventual copy right the word William, Bill & Gates, and that would force everyone with any one of those name have to change their name. Then the bloodsuckers would copy right the alphabet so we have to pay for every character that we write or utter.
"XXX For Crappy Operating System From Redmond"
Replace XXX appropriately to get:
BFCOSF --> Backup Software
CFCOSF --> Commander
AVFCOSF --> AntiVirus, and so on.
If nothing, these ugly names may help in a battle to stop using said operating system.
Microsoft hasn't concerned itself with software titled "Windows Foo" since the beginning. It's been over a decade since MS-Windows became popular, and nobody has confused Spinnaker software for Microsoft software; why the sudden interest in curtailing the "Windows Foo" titles?
Considering the companies that are being attacked are those listed on the Lindows site, this is a blatant tactic on Microsoft's part to reassert control over the word "Windows." This is yet another (admittedly mild) example of Microsoft's bullying tactics.
Microsoft is not evil, no more than the bully on the schoolground is evil. They are just big and stupid and incredibly fucking selfish, and they realize they must push everyone around if they are to have any power at all.
They are willing to hurt their supporters (makers of MS-Windows software) to get at a little enemy (Lindows). This doesn't make them evil. It just makes them untrustworthy, and there's nothing evil about an untrustworthy hippopatomus.
Not evil. Just dangerous.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
and not Backup Wizard for "Windows(r)"
(probably redundant -1)
and Steve Ballmer is the MS equivalent to George W. Bush. Sometimes I wonder who is dumber.
Zilog tried to trademark Z (as in Z80), and Intel tried to trademark i (as in i486) when they got into their pissing match with AMD. Judge slapped them both down, and we get as a result way cool marketing names like Pentium (root: penta, 5, which is technically applicable only to Pentium and Pentium Pro, Pentium II, III, and 4 are all 6th gen processors) and Itanium.
During the Z80 case, the judge essentially said "If I let you do this, all I need is 25 other companies doing this and we have trademarked the English alphabet". Kind of true, the 240Z dates back to 1970, Zilog only started as a company in 1974, but if Zilog won, then there's no 'Z' car.
The other fun thing is Microsoft talking about how firm a trademark that Windows is - especially since there were windowing systems named windows, like XWindows - yet arguing in court that the pre-existing Internet Explorer trademark was weak, because it was too generic.
They're just going after little fish, ones that haven't gone through the MS approval process. If MS went after someone who'd actually fight this, they might weaken the trademark. If it's found in court to be too generic, it might be thrown out entirely. I'm surprised Billy decided to tread this thin ice. IANAL rules apply.
IMHO, Microsoft has the full right to do this.
Sure, windows is a common word, but Microsoft isn't sueing the glass making companies.
If you owned a company - Bobsoft and made an O/S -called BobOS - which you thought was really good, would you a)protect the name from people working off your achievment or b)Give everyone free reign over the name? You wouldn't sue all people who had the name Bob, but you wouls sue people using the name in their software to make it look like your brilliant company made it.
All in all, one heck of a legal minefield...
I prefer MS Windows to Linux
My 40 plus year old house has "Windows", I probably need to sue Microsoft for infringing on a word that was in use for quite some time before they attempted to hijack it for their own uses. Prior Art! Bend over Billy, time to get silly!
If I have software called Linux Commander, do you really think its part of the kernel?
I don't. Likely many people would. In a not altogether similar regard, you get plenty of people who say Linux sucks because their distribution has a poor window manager (or whatever). People are dumb, and don't know who makes what for whom. And they don't know that they shouldn't blame Linux when their window isn't the right size. Or Windows when Windows Backup Wizard didn't work the night they needed it.
People associate things that don't make sense to associate. I don't know how many people would think "Windows Backup Wizard" was an MS (or MS sanctioned) product, but I'm sure there would be some.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Tell it to the people who used to hold the trademark on "Bandaid".
It seems that this word came into such general use that a court decided it could no longer be a trademark.
Now, consider the word Windows...
Doh!!!
Does Microsoft actually take a masochistic delight in being the constant butt of humour???
Windows! AHA HA HA!
Security holes! HAW HAW HAW!
Viruses! HO HO HO!
NSA KEY! HEE HEE HEE!
I think asking Lindows to change its name is reasonable, but Windows Commander is a little bit overboard request. I think Microsoft has the right to Windows name when it comes to Operating System name use, however any other field doesn't make much sense. For these cases the problem is not Microsoft actually, but the law itself.
The English word 'Word', when capitalized, has been associated with Jesus Christ since at least the time of King James. I doubt that even Microsoft's attorneys are dumb enough to go there... The thought of ministers preaching that they are part of some kind of Satanic machinations in response should be sufficent to keep them from pulling that one.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
Thanks for the very informative post; I hope it gets modded up. Unfortunately my attitude isn't improving. I *was* aware of Xerox's "windowing" UI, not to mention inventing the mouse to go along with it. (been around long enough to have used an IBM 608 with punch cards and all...)
Thank $DEITY a judge had some common sense. Thanks for the info, maybe I'll get over it.
IANAL applies to me too; I guess it's just the fact of using pedantry without an ethics to further one's own gain that ticks me off so hard.
For some reason, nothing that BillG and Co. do really surprises me that much anymore, they're all so predictable.
C|N>K
I wonder if M$ have any chance to sue Sun for OpenWindows after losing the Java lawsuits.
Very interesting post. It sounds like their naming practice of their products is similar to their convention for "supporting" standards; ie, taking something existing (be it the word "Windows" or Javascript), and making it their own. With product names, they use trademark "law" (yes I use the term VERY loosely) to steal the word; with "standards" they make their version just different enough that small incompatibilities arise, thereby "owning" the standard as well.
It is brilliant, actually. Why come up with a name for a product when you can make yourself ubiquitous with an existing term AND proctect that term? Similarly, why develop a new protocol when you can steal an existing one, change it a bit, and make it your own? These bastards haven't innovated a damn thing. Ever.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
These people supported that proprietary platform and tied their fates to it and -- gosh, who would expect it? -- suddenly their, ahem, "partner" is trying to ram a pitchfork up their asses! Oh yes, bite the pain!.
Several years ago, Microsoft changed the license on their NT Workstation product so that it was only allowed to have a certain number of connections. Tim O'Reilly wrote a frustrated "open letter" whining about it, and it was funny the same way this story is. All that hard work that other companies put into legitimizing Microsoft's products, only to be stabbed in the back ... what a shame (*snicker*). Unfortunately, Microsoft caved in back then. I hope that by now they are arrogant enough to fight to the bitter end.
Few things give me as much pleasure as seeing Windows developers getting screwed by Microsoft. Oh, the crushed dreams, the shattered hopes and businesses, the shocked expression of pain and betrayal, ooh, is it getting warm in here?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Actually the reason KFC changed its name to KFC was because the state of Kentucky decided it wanted to trademark 'Kentucky' and pull in royalties from that move. KFC didn't care for that, and refused to acquiesce.
but that doesn't stop the bug guns with the $$$ from screwing you. Why is this any different from Visa blocking the use of eVisa.com who offered internet help on travel visas?
I guess everybody has a dirty little secret...
someone contact microsoft corp and tell them to rename windows media player. some people might think its distributed with windows!
blah blah blah ... [insert something about Microsoft going after glass window makers] ... blah blah blah
you are all so predictable.
Tungsten.
-- MarkusQ
P.S. If you don't get it, don't waste a lot of time trying to figure it out.
The Apple lawsuit wasn't about the trademark WINDOWS, this case is. The cases are completely unrelated.
Can I name my kid windows?
---- Berlin Brown http://www.newspiritcompany.
Though they can't neccessarily do anything about it (and should _not_ be able to enforce this) in countries where 'Windows' is not a trademark, that doesnt change that "Windows" is a specific product name, and calling something "Windows Backup" instead of "Backup for Windows" certainly does imply Microsoft endorsement->something which they do not have. They can't claim it has nothing to do with it, since they are making this product specifically for the product. "Oh, but windows is a generic term!" it doesnt matter if 'Windows' is a generic term or not when your product only works with and is specifically designed for that one[out of so many other possible] thing with that name which actually happens to be trademarked. If I made a golfclub called "Cup"[and trademarked it], and somebody else made a golfclub bag called "Cup Holder" you wouldnt expect that to hold up, would you? They're both generic terms, but "Golfclub" is a hell of a lot more generic than "Cup", which in this case refers specifically to a certain type of club. This program does not back up a graphical interface for another program(a 'window'), It backs up data using Microsoft Windows, and does absolutely nothing else. There can be no claim made that they are using Windows as a generic term, so they are infringing on Microsoft's mark of trade. [Not a legally qualified 'Trademark', just a mark of trade.]
MS should win this one.
And I use debian, which I love.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
IANAL, but my fraternity brother Charlie is... and knowing Charlie, it was probably at a cheap Holiday Inn Express, with a... well, never mind.
WTF, Is Microsoft intending to take on Apple, IBM, Xerox and every other interface company that uses the term Windows? How about Andersen, Pella, and Tru-Valu?
Next, will Micro$oft copyright Door or Lintel? Doesn't the term "window" go back to Xerox PARC, the Apple Lisa, etc.? Or maybe even earlier?
it's "couldn't care less" too. Unless of course you -could- care less, but if you could, why would you bother mentioning it?
Now Microsoft is trying to do just that, which will call into question their very right to use the name. The term 'window' and 'windowing system' were used years before Microsoft had even considered a gui. They at least date back to Apple's original Graphical User Interface guidelines manual in the early 80's.
Hell, even the name Windows supposedly came from an inside joke at MS. When Bill Gates was previewing the alpha for what became Windows 1.0, he whined: "This has panels. The Mac has windows. I want windows!"
I don't blame MS for trying to protect it's copyright, but it's a battle they are likely going to lose to anyone who wants to fight it. The law says Microsoft has to defend it's copyright, up until the Lindows case, they hadn't...
A day late and a dollar short, if you ask me.
Me: What operating system are your using?
Them: Office 98 -or- Them: Windows 97.
oh, I'm so confused. ;)
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
"Microsoft Windows" is. Just as Word isn't a trademark, "Microsoft Word" is.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Actually, when Microsoft first came out with its spreadsheet software, it (MS) was sued by a banking/accounting software firm which had a product that was already trademarked as Excel. Microsoft was required to refer to the MS software in all instances as Microsoft Excel. If you look at old versions of MS software on the Macintosh, you'll see that the finder menu calls MS-Word just "Word", but that Excel is referred to in its entirety as "Microsoft Excel" even in tight spots such as the finder menu.
Just one case where Microsoft lost a round. I'll find the reference and insert it later. (I believe I read this in Byte or in Creative Computing, way back when...)
http://www.microsoft.com/trademarks/t-mark/winxp-G uide.htm
Do Not Say:
[Your Product Name] Windows xp
[Your Product Name] XP
Windows XP [Your Product Name]
hmm.....now I can't legally say that I have an Athlon XP(R) CPU...nice
Well, "visa" is also a generic term, and yet we still have to deal with things like this. Don't ever put anything past big business.
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
They don't need to get a judge to buy it.
They need to buy a judge to get it. is what you meant to say.
Windows (R) ? Last time I checked, you cannot register a noun.
Ok, isnt Microsoft getting a little defence of their products now? I mean, are they beginning to fear the competition and get a grasp on the market that is perhaps to steal their thunder in the future? After the recent comments in the MS Halloween reports, perhaps this is part of their backlash on the alternative OS market?!
Also, people that believe a product named 'Windows Commander' or similiar, is an official product produced by Microsoft..are obviously misguided. What company in the world but Microsoft are foolish enough to try and enforce the fact that 'Windows' is their trademark, instead of encapsulating the whole of 'Microsoft Windows'?!
It's the same principle as 'Coke-Cola' trying to register the word 'Cola' as a trademark. Now many companies and their 'spin-off' products use the word 'Cola' in their product. The fact is, Microsoft have pushed their product onto the public with a big fat sticker saying..'Microsoft Windows' and not 'Windows'.
If Microsoft were intelligent enough to understand they do *not* own computers, they do *not* own developers..infact, they own very little...their user base is falling, and the only reason they have even half of the users they currently do, is through the process of pirate software, I do not know one person outside of a company that is worried about licensing issues, that has actually purchased a MS license for anything. This being the case, Microsoft should stop targetting businesses and developers and work along side the very people that keep them from sinking.
Well I guess im off to trademark the words 'Word', 'Excel', 'Money', etc..hey, by the end of this..ill just trademark the whole of the English language! and when I'm not happy, ill move on to foreign languages..including computer languages such as C/C++ and i shall call it C#! GENIUS!
...is Total Commander? Swear to God I didn't scroll up the page.
I also don't know if it's actually called that, and you're absolutely right.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Even in the Lindows they say: "Lindows.com is not endorsed by or affiliated with Microsoft Corporation in any way."
They know that their name is going to cause confusion!
I think that if I name my product Windows [put what you want here] is because I want it to be related in a close way to MS Windows. I know that Windows is a normal and daily used word, but I think that if you see a product in the supermarket called: "Windows Cleaner" you will think, first of all (even seeing the bottle!) in a program that cleans your Windows OS, or files inside your Windows box.
Or I am the only one?
Mistake "Microsoft Windows" -> Winclows
"Microsoft Winc" "lows "
And not one of you has taken a piano lesson?
C-sharp is a musical key. This is catchy because it has musical connotations, and also because C# is one higher than C. There are doubtless other reasons a bunch of soulless marketing trolls thought this was clever.
See sig for what I think about the whole mess.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Are they going to sue everyone who suffers from Multiple Sclerosis (MS) for infringing on the trademarks too?
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
There seems to be a fair amount of attempts at damage control by astroturfers, including ones with moderation points. ;-)
There's probably more than a few suits who use slashdot as a key resource in planning the what how and when in stuff regarding information technology. Once Microsoft is perceived as running scared, they go from doing no wrong to where everything they do is wrong. IBM claims they are "more than getting their money back" from the billion a year they are dumping into Linux. I assume IBM knows what it's talking about, but IBM has no direct payout from what they're doing with Linux. I'll buy RedHat Professional Server to setup a small server. You'll download all that (and more) for free. Strange world, but effective! (Part of what I'm paying for with the boxed set is your free downloads. That way, you run into the problems and get them fixed before I do.
Big Brother is watching. All your posts are belong to US (TM).
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I seem to recall a few months ago, during the trademark infringement suit, that the judge presiding had made some sort of preliminary judgement to the effect that the Windows trademark had already been diluted, since every Tom, Dick, and Harry software publisher had been using the term Windows in their company and product name. Anybody have any more info on this?
They deserve to lose. The name is intentionally misleading. This type of cruft is the bane of OSS, people failing to do anything interesting and instead "borrowing" from others. There fucking website is a poor ripoff of Apple. Apple should sue their asses off as well.
Some software programs (Bloodshed Dev at http://www.bloodshed.net/ for instance) had to do that. In all their errors, they use Winblows... they had to because MS had that trademark...
I am going to start 2 projects on SourceForge.
Bill [ payment system ]
Gates [ a system to manage connections ]
I wonder how long I should wait until I give William the bad news...
In related news, extreme programmers have announced that they will now engage in Really Intense Coding
us slashdot readers can start our own company, named Microhard, and we can make an operating system called Doors.
I don't think a color by itself can be trademarked. But the look and feel of a blue screen of death certainly intellectual property worthy of protection.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
The infamous Marx Brothers -vs- Warner Brothers case comes to mind.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!
do I now have to call the transparent, solid portals in my home that allow light in and me to see out? Perhaps the double-glazing companies will stop ringing me up now I can dob them in to Microshaft for patent infringment ;)
Resistance is futile. Reactance buggers it up.
Yes, I too recently got a letter from Microsoft Attorneys asking me to change the name of the viewing devices attached to my house. They claimed that because I actually get more functionality from the glass viewing devices it blurred the functionality of the registered microsoft product called "Windows". Fearing future litigious actions I felt complelled to comply, hence the name glass viewing devices.
Even by any stretch of trademark.. Microsoft has allowed companies to sell Windows this and Windows that and Windows blah for a decade now. To try to assert trademark NOW is absurd... there is no way they can claim dilution now.
More like they just decided to start marketing "KFC" because it was trendier, and had more of a ring to it, especially overseas where the concept of Kentucky is, well, foreign.
If you look on their literature they are STILL "Kentucky Fried Chicken"
There have been products called "Windows something" for YEARS now.. probably 10 years at least. They cannot NOW come in and try to assert trademark law.. trademarks have to be aggressively protected.
I repeate.. products named "Windows *" and "Win*" have been around for a decade.. and microsoft didn't care. Therefore, there is no mark to defend; you can't be selective about trademark.
I recall the courts ruled years ago that, as the word "windows" was extremely generic to begin with, only a direct violation (another operating system, perhaps) would be applicable.
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windows for workgroups :P
Anderson, the manufacturer of windows for varying designs and tastes for new and existing buildings, has recieved a letter from God, er Microsoft, stating that they must cease and desist the use of the windows term.
Anderson, immediately complied stating that the next quarters delivery of product will carry the name Linux. They further responded that the new product will be more open and less likely to crash.
No, I don't see your point. NBC has a deal with CNN, that's how they operate at that level. That TOTALLY changes things. CNN agrees it's not a dilution of their trademark, and an obvious parody of their work, and probably good advertising for them, so they don't sue.
If it was ANOTHER news or TV station calling itslef CNN or stylizing it's logo very closely on CNNs, CNN *WOULD* have to defend themselves.. or lose their rights to the mark. If 20 other stations all had almost identical logos to CNN, CNN could not wait 10 years then go after ONE or TWO of them for infringement; they would only have to point out that the style is in common use, and obviously not specific to CNN.(That's not me guessing, that's how trademarks work)
Take a trademark like, say, Goretex. Those nice winter jackets of old. If 10 other companies start manufacturing materials and calling them goretex, then the trademark holder MUST take action; he can't let a bunch of other people use his mark, then pick ONE a decade later and sue them for infringing. By not acting, they basically permit their mark to become meaningless.
I guess that "Windows" is just a generic term for some kind of GUI operating system then. No reason you couldn't have IBM Windows, GNU/Windows, etc. Just like Budweiser beer, Miller beer, etc.
Yep. Their lack of imagination in choosing their OS name was clearly short-sighted, just like their company name "MicroSoft" they are just small thinkers. Like why would you buy software for your mainframe from a company that from its very name indicates that they specialize in software for microcomputers?
Bah!
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/kfc.htm
I could swear I'd heard that from a reputable source though...*sigh*
WIMP - Window(*1) Icon Mouse(*2) Pointer was first coined by Parc Xerox early in 1970, this was well before Microsoft even existed.
(*1) Windows initially refered the concept we now know as a virtual or floating desktop. i.e. A 'window' on a larger space.
(*2) 'Mouse' changed to 'Menu' as a result of the text mode UI's that where introduced in the 1980's.
And defenestration is the act of throwing someone or something out of a window. Usually because I've been thrown out of Windows by a BSOD.
the funniest thing about MS is how to this day they have probably only actually created a small handfull of products. The others they bought, stole, mimicked and then marketed (gotta give MS credit on that), or simply performed their "embrace and extenguish" tactic. You really have to hand it to a company that could so successfully (like many politicians throughout history) take advantage of the sheepish stupidity of the public and through simple marketing and underselling be able to create such a vast empiric company. Why waste money on innovation, QA and features (much less giving the customer what THEY want not forcing the customer to resign themselves to what MS LETS them have)? Just throw a bit into marketting and legal then the rest into strong arm tactics... don't forget to set aside enough money to undersell anyone you wish to destroy. I go for quality myself, not what has the prettiest box art.
this is exactly the issue with the name and more importantly exposes the underlying reality that since Microsoft and others have used the phrase "Microsoft Windows" regularly then it only goes that both legally and as a state of social acceptance, the word "windows" is just as much a generic term today as it was 100 years ago. Even without that, there is still the factor of the noun being proper or not usually delimited by a capital letter. I really can't blame MS from a perspective of not wanting confusion, but this is just silly. Even if there is no alterior motive I think that MS is playing a very dangerous game. They seem to think that this is still the late 80's to early 90's when the industry was much more naive and unschooled in what exactly is the organization known as "Microsoft."
So you typed that pile of shit on your windows PC. how fucking clever of you.
i like giving your winderz kiddies shit from my links browser.
you are a part of the fucking cunt fabric that PAID to have these 800lb gorillas FUCK YOU IN THE ASS.
SHIT FUCKER