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Russians Order Mobile Phone Encryption Removed
PenguinRadio writes "The Moscow Times is reporting that Russian security officers (The FSB, formerly the KGB) ordered all mobile phone providers to switch off their encryption systems for 24 hours, so the police could eavesdrop on all calls. An alert, either an exclamation point or an unlocked padlock, was sent to the phones in question. This is the second time such an order was given - the last time was after the hostage crisis involving Chechnya fighters in a Moscow theater. At least the Russian has the courtesy to warn all their phone users that this was going on. Not sure what the standard FBI procedure is on something like this..."
to deny, deny, deny.
...is probably to have every undercover agent in Russia drop what they're doing and man some listening devices. ;)
libertarianswag.com
*Mercury Rising/Consipracy Theory/That horrible movie with Denzel, etc.
The KGB unencrypts YOU!
It kind of concerns me that the encryption isnt hardwired into the phone, and that it can be turned on an off at a whim. I wonder if the russian or US govt's allow the encryption on their stuff be turned off, or is this a lowly citizen thing only.
The only thing GSM encryption prevents is eavesdropping on GSM calls with radio receivers. Law enforcement can still wiretap where the GSM call hits the copper, after all the call has to be decrypted by the phone network.
I don't really see why they'd have to do this, technically.
Perhaps they just wanted to "appease" the public by showing them that they are invading their privacy to search for Chechyen terrorists? After all, this is pretty visible.
I wonder if they care that I'm having a fight with my girlfriend and am calling your wife to make arrangements to stay over tonight.
Game... blouses.
So should we just resort to random police raids? I'm sure they would find plenty of illegal stuff, but at the same time I really don't want some police person coming over to my house when I'm trying to have dinner with my family. This is pretty much the same thing. I don't want to have to worry constantly that I'm doing something slightly illegal and will get in trouble on a technicality.
Paint.NET, a Free Image Editor, with Source Code Available!
Why bother shutting off the encryption? Why not just go the the cell tower and and tap the line? Seems like it would be much easier than trying to pick calls out of the air. If you just disable the encryption, then the police would have to set up their own receiver. Why not just take advantage of receiver that's already available?
Not sure what the standard FBI procedure is on something like this...
Isn't it obvious? They originate the signal from their secret base on the dark side of the moon, route it through ECHELON, then through the chip in your cerebellum, off the relay in the piece of fried chicken you're eating, through your computer just on general principles, then to your cell phone where it summarily cracks the encryption and displays the letters "BB." Then it kills you.
The coolest voice ever.
The same had been done also in St.Petersburg (2nd largest city in Russia). it was not a terrorist attack but rather Bush visit there last May. Security of the summit had been cited as a reason to turn off encryption.
Russian laws require judge approval to eavesdrop on a communication. It is not known if such approvals had been granted in all these three cases.
a) cell phone encryption turns on you! (how appropriate)
/.)
b) cell phone encryption turns you on! (only on
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
There is no procedure, and there is no informing for or of the masses. Life's a bitch, and the FBI/CIA/DEA/XYZ may eaves drop, so don't use a cell phone when you're discussing illegal doings.
Andy
I'm sure the Russian FSB (Front Side Bus?) would be happy to allow users, on request, to continue to have their cell phone usage encrypted...
From their new home in Siberia....
I'm quite surprised that they issued a warning to the phones in question.
Doesn't this defeat the purpose of eavesdropping?
As if terrorists would discuss their plans via mobile phones fully knowing that the FSB is listening.
This type of action doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than to: (1) send terrorists scrambling to other forms of communication (land lines, maybe?), (2) cause terrorists to delay their planning by a day, and (3) bring attention to the potential abuse and rile up privacy advocates everywhere.
None of the above seem to accomplish any worthwhile goals for the FSB.
Yes, in the hostage crisis case gain the ability to intercept terrorist communications while the crisis is in progress.
In this case, however, the attacks have already been concluded. Two suicide bombers have taken 14 others with them. I don't think the accomplices are going to be calling the bombers anytime soon.
The FBI procedure might be to use equipment that can crack worthless cellular encryption in real time.
"o one cares about you and your puny little life and conversations. But you would certainly care if someone was planning on blowing up your train station or office building."
I agree with you here. The Gov't isn't going to blackmail you. However, if the gov't can get in, why couldn't somebody else?
I think the privacy moans and groans are overrated, but I did have a nice little scare when the RIAA announced it would start to sue P2P users. I want my privacy to protect myself from them. I'm not worried about the USA knowing about my personal life (they do anyway, duh.), but when encryption is ordered to be turned off, suddenly I'm open to the world.
"Derp de derp."
What carrier lets you have encryption? I don't think it's a law or anything, but I never seen it as a feature for any of the major carriers. I have AT&T and I never saw that on the website... I remember I even tried to turn it on for my phone... it kept beeping at the beginning of the call saying encryption is not on...
I now kinda would like to know what service does let you do it.
No one cares about you and your puny little life and conversations. But you would certainly care if someone was planning on blowing up your train station or office building.
Ever heard of INSLAW?
That's why they do this. To find out who is planning to do bad things that hurt lots of people. They certainly don't care that you are having a fight with your wife and calling your girlfriend to make arrangements to stay over tonight.
You obviously don't get it. You probably never will. Do you pay your bills using postcards? Or do you send in checks using envelopes?
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
NICE troll. I also love how it's moderated "insightful." People are so fucking stupid sometimes.
Let's get cameras put in our houses too. I mean, if you're not doing anything wrong, then who cares? Your life is normal and boring, the FBI won't care about you! So it's all ok! Don't worry your pretty little head about it.
We'll probably see the standard privacy (natural, fundemental, pre-existing) rights vs. untilitarian (what if the terrorists have a nucclear weapon? / are going to kill 10,000 hostages?) posts.
However, I'm just amazed that Russia issued such a warning... unless, as a matter of software determinism, they couldn't turn off the encryption without turning sending the warning.
A bug, or a feature?
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
So, how do they handle such a large call volume? Just brute forcing through all phone calls made from cellphones listening for suspicious activity is quite impractical. And if they were following some leads, and knew the suspicious phone numbers to tap calls from, why disable decryption on all phones from all phone service providers?
A possible reason is to prevent the suspects from realizing that their phone is being tapped. But that's about the only explanation I can think of.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
There was a lot of controversy surrounding the use of the narcotic gas in the theater. This just looks like the police botched the job and mopped up a whistleblower.
Do you think the US would do the same thing today to the camera crew that caught the tear gas tank pumping flame into the building at Waco?
Quote: "They certainly don't care that you are having a fight with your wife and calling your girlfriend to make arrangements to stay over tonight."
What if I were some fledging politician rapidly gaining popularity for my almost rabid support for privacy and constitutional rights, young enough to still be idealistic and uncompromised by lobbying?
Then my fight with the wife and subsequent visit to the girlfriend become quite relevant to The Powers That Be (TM).
Don't laugh, this is the kind of stuff the FBI dabbled in under Hoover.
Privacy is privacy. There must be checks and balances to ensure that powers are not abused. These checks now do not seem to be sufficient (or existent, in some cases).
There's a reason we call it "erosion" of rights. It's a slow, insidious process - but that doesn't make it any less threatening.
At the risk of sound trite, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
hmmmm
How would we all feel if they started doing this in the U.S./Canada/U.K./please don't flame me I can't list everybody?
In the U.S. at least the Patriot act would certainly allow for it (though the courts may not see it that way if it went to trial)
It was at least nice of the Russians to let the terrorists know that the encryption was off. It is important to be considrate even in times of crisis.
On Wall Street they say "buy low, sell high" On the pad we say, "buy high, sell high" Isn't that somehow better?
I hope Ashcroft doesn't get any ideas from this. We may wind up getting little text alerts on our cell phones when the Bill Of Rights is, and is not, in affect.
Civil Rights On....Civil Rights Off...Civil Rights On...Civil Rights Off...
As proven by the German CCC
Today they only care if I want to blow up a train station or office building.
Tomorrow they'll care if I plan to murder a single person.
Next week they'll care about rapes.
A month from now it will be any felony.
Next year, if I call up a friend to say I'm running late, but I'll speed a little to make up the time, I'll get a ticket mailed to me.
A generation from now, I'd hate to see what happens to my kids if they decide to make fun of a "Bushism" that the President has said. Its an extremely slippery slope. A police state is not worth the small level of extra security you may (or may not) get.
"At least the Russian has the courtesy to warn all their phone users that this was going on"
Yo Al Qaeda, we'll be listening to your phone calls on September 16th from 4am to 5am. Just FYI, so go about your day as usual.
Just brilliant isn't it? Next we'll be mailing crack houses letters informing them of the raid 3 weeks later.
I screwed up the title. DOH! I hate it when that happens.
It is exactly because of myopic idiots like this that we have a constitution.
great! One more blasted feature on my phone the manual probably won't cover or will bury under 50,000 menu options! ... and I bet Tech Support won't know how to enable/disable it either!
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
I'm wondering if there's anything proventing the ex-KGB from doing this eavesdropping without doing this type of warning. The interesting thing in this policy is that it lulls people into thinking that they know overtly when they're being monitored, which may keep people from wondering when they maybe monitored covertly i.e. without a friendly reminder.
Matt Fahrenbacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
they can just order it done, they do not need a court order or anything....it can also be a blind stab in the dark, it does not have to be specific.
the FBI need all of that.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Nope. Sorry. I don't care whether or not the government is trying to track me specifically, but frankly, given a chance, I would rather risk a train station exploding than live under a tyranical goverment that does what it pleases, such a government could easily off people at a faster rate than terrorists can and I want those checks and balances IN PLACE.
With what you suggest, I think it the equivalent of federal agents being able to search anyone's house, for any reason at all, without oversight. If they wanted to, I'm sure they can find a lot of stuff to nail you with if your opinions are out of favor with the current administration, say you're a Democrat or Libertarian when there is a Republican in office.
Quite frankly, there was a warrant system for this sort of thing.
I don't care if you think that most everyone leads a boring life. That doesn't matter, what does matter is a goverment that thinking they can barge in everywhere without cause, without due process and quite frankly, possibly humiliate or blackmail anyone they please.
The russian authorities have a law (SORM) which requires any communications provider to have special equipment tapped by FSB. This law is well implemented and therefore FSB has access to all phone conversation regardless of the encryption.
The true purpose of this action is any one of the following in order of highest to lowest probability:
1) Draw public attention to the bombing/terrorist act and drum up support for whatever it is the government is planning next. Good way to do it as anyone and their dog carries a cell phone. Bad way to really tap conversations since now everyone knows they are being tapped.
2) Draw a lot of attention to current interior minister Gryzlov and his tough and honest men tactics (that and the current cleaning of "dishonest" policement from less important police units). He's probably getting promoted to
head up some political party so that will help.
3) Put the terrorists/chechens/whoever on the run - scare them etc. This sure is a big dynamite in a small pond though - so i doubt it.
4) Have other units not equipped with SORM uplink do the tapping, using scanners or some such. Unlikely since GSM even when unencrypted still can't be listened in on without expensive equipment. I doubt this one even more, but i had to put it here for the sake of balanced options:)
Right. And you are one of those loonies that send all their mail in postcards and cares not about privacy. Good for you.
Problem though is, if and when goverment officials have access, they (some of them) will use it. For their main job, perhaps; for their entertainment, certainly, for other enterprises, quite possibly. Not just to listen to "really really bad guys", but gradually smaller fish, down to figuring out if their wifes are cheating them, or what their neighbours are talking about. Or for more enterprenially oriented peons, ways to blackmail people, or to get to some other useful information; be it for job or for personal businesses.
Never underestimate possibilities that open, or blindly assume everyone uses those powers responsibly. Grow up, use your brains, learn more about basic human nature, and corruption power causes.
I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
By announcing publicly that they're going to be tapping everyone's cellphone for the next day or two, they will have denied Al-Queda or whomever it is they are worried about the ability to make secure phonecalls. So maybe, if the organisation was about to pull a terrorist attack, they wouldn't be able to coordinate their actions and would have to abandon the attack. Alternatively, maybe the point of the exercise is that the people of concern would be forced to use alternative, more vulnerable means of communication (landlines or face-to-face meetings).
What do you guys think?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
1998 called, it wants its cell phone back.
Modern (digital) cellphones cannot be tapped with a radio. You are the weakest link, goodbye.
That my phone has the ability to work in encrypted and non-encrypted mode? Does the phone automatically join the non-encrypted session without warning, or will it balk?
Really, it would be a good idea to have some sort of *privacy off* icon or something like that on most phones (I think some Nokias I've seen have this).
In some countries, they need a court order for this, though YMMV.
U.S. law enforcement agencies and the TLAs do not want cellular users to have ubiquitous encryption.
Warrants? Warrants? We don't need no stinking warrants!
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I don't see what gives them the right to spy on consumers. Do consumers have the right to spy on the government?
Yeah, I just read an article by John Dvorak that claimed that the whole stink with the RIAA is making privacy and anonimity forefront issues for many internet users. He says that all this is only going to make it harder for the RIAA/government to catch downloaders, and it will aid in things like child porn rings and ... I dunno I forget his other examples ;].
It's a good article, check it out Not sure if /. already posted it, but its relevant and worth it.
This post was brought to you by the number 584811 and the characters / and .
rather: in soviet russia, enternal vigilance is the price of freedom
This post was brought to you by the number 584811 and the characters / and .
The Supreme Court is taking care of that....
This post was brought to you by the number 584811 and the characters / and .
So that's what the exclamation and unlocked padlock symbols mean. Whenever I go to China my phones always show those symbols and no one knows what they meant. I guess someone's eavesdropping.
if you are a telco employee or installer.. I friend of mine works for {bit telcom switch co} installing CDMA sites - they routinely listen and follow conversations - just for fun. They listen in on fights, affairs etc. Needless to say all this is built in to allow LE dweebs to get their jollies. Why hack GSM encryption when the switch already does? The POTS lines are all mined by 50 acres of ECHELON solid sate recorders and keyword recognition. Anyone guess at the keyword list ? ;)
Why rely on built in encryption, how about adding your own in line in the "hands free head set" that way you an your group could have privacy. The bad people probibly use stolen phones, esn numbers any way.Just a thought.
With the Patriot Act, I thought it was moot that they needed any advanced warning at all, just start the recording boys And isn't NSA/Eschelon already doing this 24x7 ?
It's about localization of calls, not eavesdropping I'd think.
If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
- don't use a cell phone, regular phone line or post mail - visit your bad-partners a person;
- never use Internet whatsoever;
- don't use credit cards or checks - pay only cash;
- don't use any name-based tickets on any transports: airplanes, train, bus-express; instead walk or drive; riding a bike or a scateboard is ok;
- eat only a fast-food; a restourant waiter can memorize you;
- don't buy any house and don't rent any appartments; motels for cash are fine;
- don't... don't... don't... don't...
Man! isn't it easier just to be a good guy?Less is more !
Ummmm...I'm curious what prompted the parent statement.
I haven't been too disappointed by the SC recently. (but this is in the view of a greenie)
forget it.
the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Unfortunately for us a majority of the population is not willing to pay that price.
But I agree. What's the point of having laws if you have no freedom to begin with?
Laws are made to limit freedom to keep everyone safe. But some people believe that its okay to make laws saying I can't drive my car or fly in a plane because its possible for that car or plane to crash into them. Those people are dumb. That's why natural section exists.
Unfortunately we've overgrown nature's laws and seem to think we're smart enough to write our own. And now look at the results. Just brilliant.
The exclamation point, for example, is used by Siemens firmware. I saw it a lot on freshly started networks (e.g. Ben-NL), that apparently didn't have there config straigthened out yet. Lately, I don't see it anywhere anymore (but then I've never been to Russia either!).
So: it's a side effect, nothing more. I'm sure the Ruskies would avoid it if they could.
What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly. It would be strange indeed if so celestial a thing as freedom should not be highly rated. -Thomas Paine
while (!sleep){
sheep++;
}
I wonder if it is feasible to encypt calls from caller to callee using some type of public key encryption?
harmonious design
Whethey they can eavesdrop or not, it doesn't matter. Terrorists have their own "word subtitutions". They can speak a whole fscking hour of attack strategies and the eavesdropper (listener) would think they're discussing something about Barbie dolls. The government knows this, so there must be another reason for informing the public.
http://www.palmzone.net
--There's a reason we call it "erosion" of rights. It's a slow, insidious process - but that doesn't make it any less threatening.
There's a reason they call it "erosion" of rights.
It's to promote the perception of a natural, unavoidable process.
" So should we just resort to random police raids?"
But why stop there? Such a half-ass effort will surely miss far too much illegality. The only good solution is to have daily (or even more often) police inspections of every home, office, person, vehicle, etc. And just as an added precaution, we should install video cameras on every street, in every ally, and in every room of every home, office, or other such structure. From there, all the visual information could be fed into a lovely Oracle database, having been sorted by an advanced AI system. That way, any and all illegal acts are caught on tape, and the law-breaker can simply be put in jail, or perhaps even more simply, to death. Since we have it right on tape, there's obviously no need for a trial. And since those who break the law deserve to be caught and punished, no one should have any problem with this. After all, you're not doing anything illegal, immoral, or undesirable, right?
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
"At least the Russian has the courtesy to warn all their phone users that this was going on. Not sure what the standard FBI procedure is on something like this..."
Or another way to look at it--
Yes, at least they have the courtesy to inform the terrorist of their tactics.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
At least the Russian has the courtesy to warn all their phone users that this was going on
No courtesy or warning is needed. GSM handsets automatically display the no-encryption icon when OTA (Over The Air) security is turned off by the operator.
V
Maybe their courtesy is so that people who don't get warned feel that they aren't being overheard and thus are more likely to reveal information. Maybe they're eavesdropping on people who don't get the warning. Maybe they're eavesdropping on everyone!
Big Brother is watching you! (It's not just a really bad reality TV show!)
Ummmm...I'm curious what prompted the parent statement.
I haven't been too disappointed by the SC recently. (but this is in the view of a greenie)
I'd guess their recent Constitution-gutting decisions in Lawrence v. Texas and Grutter v. Bollinger.
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
The standard FBI procedure? Do you realize how many people would riot if their phones were turned off for 24 hours? There'd probably be people rioting before 6 hours were over. In this high-tech world, were everyone is connected, not being connected, for even so little a time as 24 hours really is, is seen as a disaster. I don't think the FBI would even try
-Dae
"Alle reden vom wetter. Wir nicht." - SDS Sozialistischer Deutscher Studentenbund.
j00 4r3 3n73r1ng l337 w0r1d.
There are two versions of A5: with full 64bit (for US, Germany etc) key and 54bit key (For Russia, Latvia, China etc).
Two months ago I requested my GSM company about their encryption technology. They replied: "Yes, we use good encryption. No, we cannot tell you which exactly".
Try to ask your GSM operator.
Can't have the general Population having better technology than your Government...with the economical state the Soviet Union is in...most of yer Tom, Dicks, and Harry's have better communications than the military.
The situation is quite the same here in Estonia, the unwilling former Soviet republic. All three GSM operators are required by law to provide equipment that allows the defence police to tap into any phonecall. Until recently this was simply a legal requirement, but at this point all three (if I'm not mistaken) have actually purchased and set up these systems. The legal side of listening to a specific phonecall is a completely separate matter.
I'm sitting just now in my office in the center
of Moscow, and my phone doesn't display "No encryption" alert. It was so during Nord-Ost musicle hijacking, but not now.
BTW, it is not very comforting to think that
somebody in the same bus with you might carry
2 kilo TNT bomb, which would explode when somebody
send SMS to it.
Latest bomb in Moscow was apparently done
via some remotely controlled ignition and
explode when they tried deactivate it.
Many ISPs have started compliance but then just stalled indefinitely. The same for the mobile networks. In any case, if you want to be really secure, just give the FSB full access to a high bandwidth data stream as they lack the equipment to analyze this.
This is essentially a publicity seeking move to show that the Government is doing something (guess the Russians aren't alone in doing this but at least they don't suddenly invade an unrelated coutry). If the dishonest policeman were cleaned out in Russia, the stations would be very empty. They are paid almost nothing so they tend to have a number of little 'enterprises' on the side.
The Chechnyan situation exists for the convenience of the military (it is a very convenient way of concealing all manner of problems). The real answer is to turn Chechnya into a quasi-autonomous area. However, the Kremlin and the military are too linked and against reform.
See my journal, I write things there
I agree, in Russia, civil servants are not well paid. At least not in their official capacity. Many do have business interests on the side, actually most, I think. Those who are in a position to abuse their access to information often do and blackmail is a frequent problem due to widespread tax evasion.
See my journal, I write things there
The government protects YOUR privacy... err, wait scratch that.
http://yetanotherpoliticalrant.blogspot.com
Do you have any idea how many laws there are in this (USA) country?
I agree with your sentiment, but in the end, there are SO many laws that if you are walking down the street any cop can arrest without reason. Why? Because I *guarantee* they can come up with some law that you are breaking. We've all heard the absurd laws, but now its all those (can't wear stripes on weekdays, blah blah blah) PLUS general "decision call" laws like disturbing the peace, failing to disburse, etc.
I'll give you an example. A high-school friend of mine was walking down the street in the arts district of my city. The local beat cops thought they recognized him as a persistent trouble maker and suspected he would have drugs/contraband on him and probably some outstanding warrants. They stopped him and asked him what his name was. He told them, and they called him a liar. My friend told the cops his name again and tried to walk around them. At that point it was three people abrest - two cops and him. One cop grabbed his wrist and threw the cuffs on him. The charge? Obstructing a public side walk. Based on that charge, they were allowed to search his person, get his wallet, look at his ID, call in his info. to the state, AND search his car which was parked about 1/4 mile away.
No charges were filed and he posted $60 bail. That was the end of that case.
The point is with the high-number of laws any law-enforcement person can essentially detain you for little or no cause and be completely legally justified. It's even worse if you are driving. In a lot of states if you look suspicious you are eligible for arrest and blood-based intoxication testing.
Your sentiment would be correct if the laws were specific and relatively few. Instead they are the opposite. Living 'legit' is simply not enough. The 500,000 law enforcement officers in this country have nearly as many laws to use as tools.
Do you honestly believe you can go through life and _never_ break some obscure law, somewhere, sometime ?
This decision was officially (I've read it in Russian press) explained to enable FSB (new KGB name) eavesdrop in realtime. They can eavesdrop even with the encryption turned on, but only offline.
This is exactly the situation that show us how political goals should not be pursued with technological means. Hardly this thing will change the situation in Chechnya, and those chechenian women that SUICIDED themself couple of days ago causing tens of civil deaths would have certainly found the way to do it without the cellular phone.
...a stunned silence fell upon the hall.
What if I were politically active against the current administration? Might they care then?
We've been through this before. In 1978 the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) was enacted. The Watergate hearings had proved to the nation that the executive branch couldn't be trusted to not spy on people on whom they had no right to spy.
Look at how close the last presidential election was. A few "puny little lives" could have made a big difference.
There are sites in Russia, like compromat.ru or flb.ru which regularly post transcripts of mobile phone calls between famous people. I have been able to follow the progress of friends/former colleagues in this way, and it's quite amusing. What is not amusing is the ease with which those calls can be tapped, even with encoding switched on. As the poster above says, someone is getting access to the signal after the tower, probably via a direct feed to the mobile operator's exchange.
In the case of those sites above, the tapping is done by various private security services, or maybe by the official security services, moonlighting on behalf of private firms. The output is then leaked to the press, via clearinghouse sites like the ones above, as part of various political/economic squabbles that define the Russian political landscape. The operators have to comply, as the security services are close to the Ministry of Communications, and if you start bleating about civil rights or due process, the Ministry will rapidly discover an irregularity in your license, and make your life hell. In any case, it's not hard for the Russian security services to get a court order, which would force the operator to give access.
So why switch off encoding, when you can get access to the conversations without it? It may be a timing thing, as you say - it may take time to set up a tap for a particular number. Or more likely, you don't know the number that you are trying to tap (it's very easy to get a prepaid SIM card, or to steal one) so you aim to find your target by eavesdropping. If you are looking to tap the phone of a senior politician or businessman, you already know the number you are tapping, so you don't need to go after their signal.
"the kind of stuff the FBI dabbled in under Hoover"
Not to mention the Foreign Intelligence Surveillence Act of 1978. Watergate was about more than the ofice break-in.
I wonder how many privacy freaks here are also information freedom fighters. Yes, this is flamebait.
>If you answered no to all of these questions then relax and have a beer. No one is looking for you.
And if you answered yes to some?
>Are you buying large quantities of fertilizer?
If you're a farmhand, sure.
>Castor beans?
Probably not.
>Do you transact exclusively in cash and demand payment from your employer in cash?
From what I've seen with most farmers, yes.
>Do you wire money to your uncle Osama every month?
No.
So, perhaps only 50% of all farms need raiding tonight?
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Wasn't a main point of the PATRIOT act that providers of any communications couldn't notify the suspect if eavesdropping was occuring? Turning off encryption would be as good as admitting that, so it's probably illegal to notify.
You're not making a call on your mobile right now, right? So it's not transmitting at the moment, right?
How do you know?
You've tested it yourself, of course? What's that? You haven't? You're just assuming that it only send when you make a call, are you. Hmm.
Sure, I know that the way this was probably implemented in Russia was to simply have the base stations refuse encrypted calls and hope that all the phones fell back to sending unencrypted. I doubt there's many phones today that you could turn on remotely without the user knowing. I say "many" rather than any because I have a Sony Ericsson P800 right here that I've just implemented this on. OK, it required installing an app, and it's a crude kludge that sends crappy voice over GPRS rather than its voice transport, but I managed to implement it in a few hours just for shits and giggles. Imagine what the Department of Hopeless Security could do if it put its collective mind to it.
Not that I'm worried. I'm sure they'd only use such techniques to listen in on really vile people like terrorists, anti gubmint protestors or suspected DMCA violators.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
part of the time and are warned when they don't..
My cell provider sold me a phone that is capable of secured communications but my provider does not permit secured communications.
I set my phone to use encryption on all calls but it tells me every single time that it was unable to establish a secure connection.
And it only tells me that AFTER the call is over with.
So, moral is, don't say shit on the phone, someone is listening. That goes for ALL phones, landlines included.
If you want real privacy, talk with your friend in the middle of an empty field so that you can see everything around you for a very long distance. Your home is not private either. A kid with a $2 laser pen, $5 worth of parts and a soldering iron can listen to everything in your house like he's right there.
I would like to see cell phones with a hardware PGP CPU chip built in.. I would buy one. But ONLY if it was open sourced...
Funny, this reminds me of a joke that a Russian friend told me...
:)
Both of us are of the age that we grew up during the Cold War and remember what it was like having nukes pointed at each other day and night...
Anyway, we were on the phone and the connection was really bad. At one point, we heard a click similar to someone picking up the phone. So, Dmitri paused and said, "Wait a second..." After a few seconds, he began to speak again and I asked what had happened. He explained that, in Russian, it is considered polite to pause the conversation when you hear the FSB changing the tapes recording your conversation.
I laughed my ass off.... Yes, people, I'm now ass-less....
"Ahhhh, best laid plans of mice and men... and Cookie Monster." -- Cookie Monster, Sesame Street
The FBI would just have the NSA decrypt it
I just picked up an LG VX10 yesterday, it's a great phone with killer reception - but i didn't know it was possible to build as totally non-intuitive and confusing a UI as it has (and i'm technologically proficent!)
Yes, it's mad offtopic, forgive me, it's early still..
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
IANAL, but under the US Constitution such an act would certainly be found to be illegal by the court system. Case law regarding wiretaps, etc... precedent requires that wiretapping requests (well...ones that they plan on using in court) must be specific, not just "everyone."
Now that said, other organizations such as the NSA or HSO, etc...who aren't necessarily concerned that their wiretaps hold up in court, probably don't care. Regardless, they probably don't need to have "providers" turn it off en-masse--chances are they have the resources to get around it either by breaking it, or some other mechanism (like eavesdropping after it's decrypted at the CO.)
Buffy adjusts tin foil hat
Do you think the US would do the same thing today
Danny Casolaro
Michael Riconsciouto
Ron van Meter
The list goes on.
Read, L
Not sure what the standard FBI procedure is on something like this...
Damn Russians. If they lived in the USA they would be treated with the respect and courtesy a country full of apathetic weekend patriots deserves. None. Our government would do something like play up the effectiveness of the crypto in protecting personal conversations and important business secrets on one hand, while ordering a no-warrant backdoor into the system with the other. Of course these secrets would become public in 20 or so years in the name of "full disclosure" to give everyone a woody about their current administration, and the typical American would fail to see how those lies of the past would have any relevance in his life that present day. Stupid Russians.. I bet they wish they were free (to be played like puppets) like us.
in soviet russia, the FSB encrypts you!
actually... that's right according to the article:)
But they kind of GRU on me.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The FBI procedure is to get a court order and hope they can eavesdrop. I don't think it's given that teh crypto on an individual phone can be turned off or trivially defeated. Clipper died if you'll remember, so there's no key held in escrow that they can use to snoop.
This document will tell you exactly what procedure is for wiretap.
It also lists that: "In 2002, no federal wiretap reports indicated that encryption was encountered. State and local jurisdictions reported that encryption was encountered in 16 wiretaps terminated in 2002; however, in none of these cases was encryption reported to have prevented law enforcement officials from obtaining the plain text of communications intercepted. In addition, state and local jurisdictions reported that encryption was encountered in 18 wiretaps that were terminated in calendar year 2001 or earlier, but were reported for the first time in 2002; in none of these cases did encryption prevent access to the plain text of communications intercepted.
"Want in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first." - My Dad
For limited time only
As response to and anticipation of MAJOR terrorist act - bombings in Tushino(sp)
People know about it
Does not sound like a big deal to me. Kind of like setting up road blocks in the area where suspect is on the run.
I wish US was this open while violating our privacy.
There is no need to turn off the encryption to listen in on calls. They can just use the Lawful Intercept feature which is a built-in in all mobile phone networks. All they need (in most countries) is a court order to enable it. I appreciate that turning off encryption on all calls would enable them to listen in to the calls much more easily, but honestly, how much manpower have they allocated to deal with the tapping of all these phones in that 24 hour window? Do they REALLY believe that this aids them in their investigative efforts?
--Not sure what the standard FBI procedure is on something like this..." --
They use something called the "Mushroom Treatment". The axiom states, "Keep the public in the dark and feed them full of BS".
Then if the sh*t hits the fan, so to speak, the FBI falls back on denial.
Since large volume things like that would leave a considerably huge trail. The fact I used to work in a manufacturing facility that produced millions of mobiles i'm kinda wondering why i never saw any "mystery" chips.
Yes, because this story is about Soviet Russia... *sigh*
Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
Since when did Slashdot readers have wives and girlfriends? Parent message must be crypted, can anyone make any sense out of it?
Well, if you happen to have any kind of security clearence, or you plan on getting such a clearance in the future. Or, if you happen to work for a company that works on certain government projects or for a subcontractor that do then yeah, maybe they care.
Just brilliant isn't it? Next we'll be mailing crack houses letters informing them of the raid 3 weeks later.
They should open the letter just in time to see the SWAT team beat their door down.
Try Verizon.
I can get a digital signal at my aunt's house in thie middle of nowhere in upstate NY with Verizon. A few relatives have GSM phones that don't work for 20+ miles in any direction, and all of the relatives with Sprint are roaming.
I get a week of standby time, and a LOT of talk time in digital mode.
No other provider (especially not the GSM providers) can provide service more than 2-3 miles outside of Ithaca, NY. VZW's digital footprint covers almost the entire state. The GSM providers (and Sprint too) can't even cover 100% of the landmass of the most populated state in the nation (New Jersey - Look at the coverage maps of Spring, Cingular, and Voicestream/T-Mobile for NJ.)
The poor users that chose GSM keep on getting "Service Unavailable" errors because GSM can't handle multiple providers in one area gracefully. Back when Voicestream was the only GSM name in town, it wasn't so bad, but I've seen numerous horror stories of people whose GSM phones stopped working and started displaying "Service Unavailable" the moment AT&T or Cingular switched on a tower nearby.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I believe even the "direct" calls in iDEN still use the basestation as a repeater at the very least.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
GSM encryption uses standard DES encryption, which uses 56 bit keys, but the last byte is parity. In I think 1999 or around there the EEF's DES Cracker was able to crack a DES key in a week. Keep in mind this was a $150k machine with dedicated hardware. Taking mores law into account, it such a machine would cost about $25k today, and it would take a couple days to crack one phone call. So you could use it to listen in one one or two people's communication, but not everyones. You wouldn't be able to do something like listen to all communication and look for keywords, for instance.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
NTSC, CDMA, all these things that the USA insists are better, when they quite clearly aren't.
I don't know anyone who says NTSC is better then PAL, but CDMA IS better then TDMA (which GSM is based). You can send way more data across using Code Division Multiplexing then Time Division Multiplexing, and the vast majority of cell phones in the US are digital these days.
By the way, I have myself a TDMA cell phone (not sure if it's GSM or something else) but my phone company just upgraded their systems to CDMA. Why the hell would someone pay tons of money to go from something better to something worse? And it is all digital too.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
It's called Public Key encryption. Actualy it wouldn't even be that hard to use over a phone line. Just generate a key (say 512 bits) and read the public over the phone in hex or base64, then just encrypt your message and read it off in the same way.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Fool people into thinking that they need to turn of GSM encryption in order to listen in.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
But they do this sort of thing (publically turn off encryption) from time to time to make people *think* that they can't, so that people will be more free to discuss incriminating things on their cell phones at other times when the encryption is on.
Just a guess.
yea, I accidently submitted that when still working on the message/content/layout. I feel your pain, I'll help you pay for the lasik and we'll get your eyes as good as new. Luckily it got modded down pretty quick to save others from the pain. Sad really, I thought I had a good point, oh well, my bad.
Beware blue cats moving at
Dude, you don't expect us to improvise a pun using KGB, do you?
No, but despite all the effort I put into keeping the smart little bugger away, I WAS once stung by a KGB.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
I'd like to see the moderator of the previous comment JUSTIFY the down-moderation, thanks. As a non-US resident/citizen (and, by the way, actually a native Australian of Russian parentage), I keep hearing stories (some of them from HERE on Slashdot, by the way) of how miserable the privacy situation/environment is getting in the US.
g h*n atorGregg'sEncryptionRegime*cough*m entEncryptionBackdoors*cough*r ialism*cough*e ofpresident*cou gh*
*cough*TIA*cough*
*cough*Patriot Act*cough*
*cough*DMCA-suppressing-academics*cou
*cough*encryption=munitions*cough*
*cough*Se
*cough*Govern
*cough*Department of Homeland Security*cough*
*cough*BrandnewchargesofU.S.impe
*cough*SupremeCourtoverrodemychoic
Hey, look - if you jam your head up your ass, we go back in time 19 years.
Keep your pathetic moderation rights. I'll keep what's left of my personal freedoms... which are better than yours. Hey, I still have relatives who live in Russia, and RUSSIA'S personal freedoms are starting to look better than yours.
The price of eternal vigilance... IS your freedom.
Go ahead, downmod me; once I get this rant out of my system I won't care anymore. Doesn't stop the point being valid and that's what matters.
I'm in southern California, and I have a cellphone with AT&T. Everytime I try turning on the encryption option on my phone, I can't get service anymore.
Regardless, at least in the U.S., law enforcement can bypass any encryption (with a warrant) by tapping at the phonce company's office downstream (or is it upstream?) from the encryption.
Nothing to see here; Move along.
I bow before the master :)
...of being raised in a [ex-?]police state is a certain set of habits. Such as not discussing anything important over the phone, for example. So, my guess is, only teenagers and terrorists can speak about "serious business" over the phone, encrypted or not. However, IANAFSBO. (I Am Not A FSB Officer :)
Will our friends escape the clutches of a determined Boris with his superduper decript machine? Tune in tommorow to watch the conclusion of MOSCOW IS LISTENING, or MUST EVERYTHING YOU READ ON SLASHDOT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!