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Kazaa Sues Record Labels
dannyp writes "CNN is reporting that Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network - an interesting twist." The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."
I wish I was a lawyer, not an engineer...
RIAA getting what they deserve
I'm glad there's some legal action going the other way for once.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
This is probably a futile move. But yet I can't stop grinning thinking about someone standing up to those people for once. DirecTV being sued as well.....I think perhaps people are tired of being pushed around. That and Kazza stands to lose money.
must... resist... urge... to ... post.... cliches!
resisting.... what goes... around... comes around... aaaah... pot... kettle... black... force is stronger... glass houses... AAAAH.
heh
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
How is it legal for record companies to obtain information on users from the ISP? Are there no privacy laws regarding ISPs? Just curious...
Are you telling me that you don't see the connection between government and laughing at people? - Interviewer
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the goose steppers.
But the RIAA have no such powers... Oh except the ones where they can buy really expensive lawyers and win the case anyway. Yeah, those are handy.
bought time.
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
if they promise not make any more CDs
New year Resolution: Don't change sig this year
Kazaa recently withdrew their suit after they realized they were suing a 60 year old woman with an iMac. This follows the current trend of trying to give a random old lady a heart attack.
... that Kazaa started fighting back. I knew those tactics that the RIAA was using (clients that messed up the network, clients that introducted viruses, etc) were on the border of legality - I had almost forgotten that Kazaa (unlike gnutella) is a privately owned network... or protocol... or something. Kudos to Kazaa... now if they only got rid of their spyware...
I have always felt that a P2P network could protect itself by requiring in a license to use said network that no users will use the service to collect IP addresses. In that case they could go after the RIAA for either theft of network services or even DMCA abuse for using an illegal client.
This would not protect network users if law enforcement were to request valid subpoenas for the job, but it would stop non-law enforcement bodies like the RIAA from doing what they are doing now.
This is using our enemies methods against them, which makes it sweet.
Does this mean the RIAA will have to delete Kazaa Lite and sign an agreement stating they will never ever ever install or use kazaa lite again?
The lawsuit also claims "...efforts to combat piracy on Kazaa violated terms for using the network."
This is kinda like claiming improper search and seizure for drug cases. I wonder if there is precedent in electronic law.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
This is not some sort of contest. The immaturaity level on fark.com is stunning and by far worse than what is seen on slashdot.
Look at the comments on this page relating to this story to see how bad it is on fark.com
Sunny Dubey
Damn straight. I figured this would happen because there's got to be some way the RIAA is breaking the "DMCA" extracting more data than they should via the client software. They are hacking, and whether they suck at it or not, you can be sure they are breaking the law daily...now we just need someone to grab a memo or something proving it.
This could be used as a prescedent which could be used to nullify any outstanding lawsuits filed by the RIAA, and the already ruled ones, well the defendent could file a suit against the RIAA.
Does KaZaA really have the financial resources to launch a successful legal attack on the RIAA? I mean, the media conglomerates are rolling in dough. I've never really understood KaZaA's business model and find it hard to believe that they stand a chance. Regardless of merit, the RIAA have got to have some killer lawyers.
Much as I'd like to see KaZaA fight back, I just don't see this being a fair fight. I suspect KaZaA will withdraw their legal challenge pretty soon.
GMD
watch this
I want in on the action! Who can I sue!?
Look it's a joke about my sig IN MY SIG! LOL!
The article seems to imply that this came as a complete surprise to the RIAA. Talk about an organization that can dish it out, but not take it. They were (allegedly) using unlicensed software. Oh jeez, I'm shocked!
Then again, its kinda like those "stupid news" stories about the burgler sueing the owners of the house he broke into, because the stairs weren't up to code, causing him to trip and break an arm.
Children in the backseats don't cause accidents. Accidents in the back seats cause children.
...AOL sued *you* for accessing their network with Gaim.
If using Kazaa Lite on their network is illegal, I'm sure anybody using mlDonkey/giFT to connect to Kazaa could be in trouble, hypothetically.
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
I must have missunderstood the purpose of copyright, if it isn't self-serving, what is it for?
Pounce!
i wonder if previous settlements can be overturned if it's proven that RIAA used illegal means to track offenders. after all, incriminating evidence is regularly thrown out of the criminal courts if it was obtained by unlawful search and seizure, through illegal wire taps, botched confessions, etc.
Kazaa suing the mpaa/riaa for reverse engineering... ha!
although this is incredibly amusing to see them fight back, one has to wonder what they will actually acheive in the long run - other than dragging out future litigation against other Kazaa users.
Will Sharman invoke the DMCA on Kazaa Lite? Will this come down to a pissing match between other clients that can access the FastTrack network? I have a mac which runs ML Donkey. If I chose to, I could enable FastTrack searches and downloads.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
They should encrypt the Kazaa network and sue the RIAA for DMCA violations...
...about the goose and the gander, there, Batman.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
I think that Kazaa will lose. But could this be a rare win-win situation for most people?
If Kazaa wins, the RIAA gets screwed. If Kazaa loses, it harms ridiculous "click here to agree" buttons and it hurts the DMCA?
This is a good thing, but Kazaa people might not see it that way.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
...how long until they demand Google pull all R**A links?
If you actually read the KazaaLite license agreement, it specifically states that using the product is illegal (I would install just so I could get the exact wording but I'm at work and would rather not lose my job). I guess the RIAA neglected to read it before installing... Haha!
I swear to God it's like 1984-esque Newspeak. Think one thing. OK, now think the other.
Kazaa sues Google because of Kazaa Lite! Kazaa evil!
Kazaa sues recording industry because they improperly accessed the network! Kazaa good!
Somebody please give me a chart or visual reference for when Kazaa is bad and when the RIAA is bad.
(Alternatively, it's fun to see two evil corporations duking it out, because either way a badguy's going to lose. But that's just my inner optimist.)
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
Kazaa should just shut the hell up and count it's blessings. The only thing Kazaa needs to worry about is not being shut down because of all the illegal activity and continue pushing it's case that it's got excellent legal uses as well.
Suing the record labels for not letting people get away with illegal activities involving the RIAA's property is just idiotic.
What the RIAA is doing with their specialized client is nothing that can't be done with the "official" client. The RIAA just has it easier with their custom software. And we all know about Kazaa Lite and I don't see them bitching about that.
With MSN and AIM et all, using a third party client is stealing resources from MS and/or AOL et al. Using a third party client with Kazaa doesn't affect them in the least.
But then, what else would you expect from a team who's only claim to skill is putting ad and spyware on a gnutella client?
Maybe Gnutella should sue Kazaa off their network. Kazaa is only hurting P2P with this kind of idiocy.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
If Kazaa wins the lawsuit against the RIAA, will that dismiss the 260+ lawsuits the RIAA brought up against Kazaa users?
-- pX
That I never got....I mean, what the fuck is a gander anyway?
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
And to that Kazaa replied that the RIAA's newfound disrespect for the legal system ironic and self-serving.
-Sean
Let's see if money *really* _is_ above the law, as many of us surely would have the impression of, for some incomprehensible reason (the media?)..
Except that the SCOs claims to the Linux kernel are dubious at best, and their suits smack of extortion to prop up an ailing company. Meanwhile, the RIAA is malicously attacking a private network and slandering it in the media causing it to lose business.
Uhh, they violated the terms of Service, doesn't sound so much like copyright violation. Of course, I do believe the RIAA would be so stupid as to try and play it that way. But that's what they need...they wanna harp on their one law sending out supoenas to everyone, lets start calling them for every tiny little law they break and bury them in paper.
Indeed the last anonymous coward has it right there - given that there is nothing in the original flamebait to suggest a British origin, why assault the British?
Kazaa is suing the record companies, claiming that they used an illegal client to log in to the P2P network
And yet Sharman hasn't publically jousted Kazaa Lite? I'm not complaining, but this seems to be a directly targeted statement on behalf of the P2P community "we are not afraid"... The bully called the RIAA may become the bullied... It seems that the smart geek in school named P2P is tired of being beaten up (Napster) and has taken Ku/\/9 F00 lessons...
Business \Busi"ness\, n.;
A scam in which all people involved perceive as beneficial...
I don't care if they have to reindex all of reality, I'm sick of these clitches.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Kazaa will be offering an amnesty to the RIAA provided they send in a notorized confession and promise never to monitor the Kazaa network again!
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
man I'd love to wake up one morning to discover both of them blew up in a puff of legal arguments...
No RIAA means no more BS from the record industry.
No Kazaa means my network will be FREE OF CRAP (well except for Windows worms and stuff).
Here's hopin'.
The Verizon case found that the RIAA has the right to get the identities of users who they allege are violating copyright laws by sharing copyrighted music.
... and if the RIAA didn't have more lawyers than quality musicians, the person could do the country a world of good by suing the RIAA.
This finding is still being appealed by Verizon, and Congress is discussing whether this should be allowed to continue. Where the RIAA should get in trouble is with the recent subponea issued for the wrong person. They essentially deprived this person of their right to privacy by wrongfully requesting that the person's ISP reveal their identity. This was in clear violation of their rights
Boobies of course, you farking idiot.
I noticed in an earlier article that the EFF was working with a few of the people that the RIAA was suing. CNN doesn't mention anything about the EFF working with Sharman Networks Ltd. Now IANAL, more of a law & order watcher;) But wouldn't it make sense for the EFF to work with a company that, even though might not be doing so well, still has more resources with which to fight?
Or maybe the EFF doesn't see merit to the case?
Chaos is Divine *
...Service if you are a copyright holder of infringing works traded with our Product or Service, if you are a law enforcement officer active in a jurisdiction which recognizes this copyright, or if your use of our Product or Service will otherwise lead to charges of infringement against any of our Users.
If you do not agree to these terms then you must immediately terminate use of our Service and must destroy all copies of our Product or face prosecution to the fullest extent of the law.
Do you agree to these terms? Yes[ ] No [ ]
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
News for Nerds my ass, THIS is why I come here.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
"I have always felt that a P2P network could protect itself by requiring in a license to use said network blah blah."
Warez sites with such a "license" don't exempt themselves from prosecution. It's just some idiotic ploy someone thought up long ago.
The RIAA doesn't need a search warrent to get information that is publically available. People are putting their illegal goods up for anyone to see and you can't selectivly choose who sees it just to avoid prosecution.
"I may or may not be committing a crime but you can't look just in case I am if you can prosecute me for it" doesn't hold up in court.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
DMCA.
'nuf said.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
Why not just route streams through several hosts, so the IP address you are connected to is not the one actually hosting the music, only a router which would be protected under law as a common carrier. Or just run your P2P network on top of mixmaster or something simular.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
that in a few years, when you turn 12, Fark will be just the thing for you. Now run along, your momma's calling you. (She dresses you funny, too.)
You mean Morpheus. They were based on the FastTrack network and then changed to Gnutella. Using Gnucleus, IIRC.
Kazaa OTOH still use the FastTrack network. This network runs over centralized servers, so a third party client could indeed be "stealing" their resources.
Ok normally I wouldn't bother but how is using pounds (already an imperial system that uses strange numbers of ounces to a pound) superior to using stone which is just the next number up in the sequence? Surely it is more non-sensical to use just pounds and not bother with the higher denomination, stone, which makes weights more readable.
Nigeria and Iran use them for killing women who have children out of wedlock, if that helps...
If Kazaa wins, could this mean that all "evidence" presented against people that they have been illegally sharing copyrighted music must be thrown out?
I cannot help but think of Frodo in Lorien as Galadriel twirled the ring of power in her hand and dreamt of being the great dark queen.
Yes, KaZaA with all its spyware and crap should be the great dark queen that rules the internet. Great dark queens are soooo much better than great dark lords. Once upon a time Bill Gates was the Smeagle like creature living on the bank of a great river. His friend Digital Research dove into the river and found a shiny ring...but it was Smeagle's birthday...
After seizing the ring of power. The world rooted the pc geeks against the mainframers.
Quite frankly, I see companies like KaZaA sliming in the rivers of the legal system for power are as disgusting as anything the music industry pipes out. Is is good to see a new generation cheering on one of the sleaziest companies to hit the market in its drive to become a new dark lord.
...is my friend?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
And it's about time!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I'm rooting for Kazaa just like everyone else on this one, but seriously... this stands about as much chance as the old FTP servers I used to frequent that displayed a banner claiming "If you are a member of a government agency, including law enforcement, you must disconnect now."
----- sXe
"Kazaa will get you through times of no Clear Channel better than Clear Channel will get you through times of no Kazaa!"
(That's a reference to the 'Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers' series of underground comic books from the 1966 to 1972 era)
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/ECPA2701_ 2712.htm
n d_ CSEA.htm
2701. Unlawful access to stored communications
(a) Offense.--Except as provided in subsection (c) of this section whoever--
(1) intentionally accesses without authorization a facility through which an electronic communication service is provided; or
(2) intentionally exceeds an authorization to access that facility;
and thereby obtains, alters, or prevents authorized access to a wire or electronic communication while it is in electronic storage in such system shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section.
and the CYBER SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2002 can be used against them..
http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/homela
and the Patriot Act can used against them..
http://www.cybercrime.gov/PatriotAct.htm
Section 212 Emergency Disclosures by Communications Providers
Section 217 Intercepting the Communications of Computer Trespassers
so, by the way that the current computer laws are written, the RIAA could be prosecuted for Hacking under the "Terror Laws"..
the blade cuts BOTH ways..
i hate microsoft.
This "company" has been avoiding legal action. Maybe you mean is not afraid to dish it out, but sure as hell can't take it.
...does this actually "work", short of there being a subpoena or warrant?
.sig Realistic fines for copyright in
In this corner in the white shorts it's the D!M!C!A!
and in the very dark corner in the very dark bondage suit it's the D!M!C!A!(RIAA)
Lets get r-r-r-r-r-eady to r-r-r-umbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Yes that's it. The US never oversteps our bounds and goes outside our jurisdiction at will to arrest who we want. What planet are you from?! The last ruling on P2P was that it's legal...so why would they be hiding? This is also their SECOND time in court
Because that is what the United States of America uses. Face it, the US is teh best country EVAR.
Are they using Kazaa Lite? Did they reverse engineer the protocol and used the FastTrack network illegally from an unauthorized client? Are they using an authorized client (Kazaa, iMesh, Grokster) and did they uninstall any bundled ad/spywares?
can't afford to rent politicians either to pass laws in their favor. Here in the good old USA we got the best government that money can buy. Problem is, the average citizen cannot afford much but the MegaCorps can.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
You sir are the exact reason why browsing at -1 is the best thing one can do. Almost pissed my pants for you absurd humor :)
my 2 cents
Fucking idiot moderators. Anyone who doesn't want to read OT and troll posts will be browsing at +1 anyhow.
Anybody else see the story today about Kazaa's web phone service?t ory&cid=52 8&e=1&u=/ap/20030924/ap_on_hi_te/p2p_telephony
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s
If Kazaa loses, wouldn't this set precedent that stupid Software License Agreements are not enforceable?
-IOVAR Web Dev Platform
"... if you are a law enforcement officer active in a jurisdiction which recognizes this copyright..."
Oh come on/b:
"You may not open this obviously illegal packet of drugs if you are a law enforcement officer, being that this wax seal protects copyrighted work inside and serves as a protection mechanism."
They claimed that the RIAA was using Kazaa Lite K++, which they also claim is a unauthorized modified version of Kazaa. Still using Kazaa in any form is subject to EULA of Kazaa, and using their network is subject to their TOS. I guess they saw the subpoenas being issued as harassing, or a violation of privacy or something else.
Still many use Kazaa Lite K++ for file sharing, are they too in violation of the license agreement?
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Because in fact using somebody's network without permission is regarded as criminal tresspass! Kazaa should be filing supoena's to the RIAA to get the identities of the people who trespassed on their network (at the behest of the RIAA) so they can file criminal charges against them... and by the way, doesn't hiring somebody to break the law constitute racketeering? Does RICO apply here?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
"I steal music, and so can you: www.kazza.com"
Thinking about it, that's probably for the best in the long term. In the short term, I'm using an unauthorized third-party client (Adium), so I hope they don't start suing people. But they own the network and should be able to do whatever they want with it. And I've been working on support for Jabber in Adium, which is a distributed protocol, so I won't have to put up with this kind of silliness.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
But definitely agree with 8 and 4.
The truly funny thing is that %99 of you fuck-ups get your opinion of the majority of Americans off of our sensationalized mass-media.
The EULA is the weaker law. If you wrote a virus that destroyed computers you couldn't sue someone under the DMCA for reverse engineering it to see what it does in order to track down who wrote it and to keep it off of systems. Damaging other people's property over rules your "right" to privacy.
You cannot use a weak law to protect yourself from a higher law.
The higher law is the laws of copyright. The weak law is the EULA. And it's no secret that illegal MP3's and everything else are being traded on P2P.
The is suffienct 3rd party evidence that laws are being broken on P2P to warrent any legal body having a look-see. You don't have to use Kazaa to know what's going on with it.
This is why EULA's only hold up when a crime isn't being committed. A EULA will never hold up in a case where it's being used to hide a crime.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
In Soviet Russia, Kazaa sues the RI--
Ah, never mind, fuck it. Who wants a beer?
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
couldn't pirates use the DCMA as a measure to stop them getting tracked? Couldn't they say, encrypt their p2p software and make anyone using a fake client to find out users a criminal?
Maybe it's about time we showed how silly the DCMA is.
This case brought forth by Kazaa is interesting in that it involves a number of issues such as the enforceability of EULAs and weather or not the RIAA is in essence allowed to act as its own law enforcement unit.
The DMCA was signed into law October 28, 1998, while Clinton was President, AND Congress was Republican-controlled.
:)
Let's not pull the tiresome old Republican strategy of omitting facts which hurt our argument..remember we're all adults here
Great now il get sued by Kazaa for using Kazaa Lite, and the RIAA for copy-right theft and SunnComm for circumnavigation. Does anyone else want in? Come round to mine for super-hot coffee burns and violent video games!
(Good thing i dont live in America)
Disclaimer: This post is not a legal confession.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Well... I think his alternative is not to buy a gun and not to be a goddamn lard-ass. Wasn't that hard to puzzle out.
But what about those of us up at North Point?
ISAF will bring Freedom and Justice soon enough.
mac.
I believe Norway and Sweden are the current posterchilds for this jazz. Check it out.
The RIAA used to be a non-profit organization.
I found this out by looking on the back of an old record jacket.
Bort.
Free, Anonymous surfing: Pagewash.com.
Welcome to Slashdot.
I know I'm feeding a troll, but.
USAians think in more complex concepts.
Guns illegal != no guns.
Guns illegal = only people who don't respect the law have guns.
Only people who don't respect the law have guns = criminals are armed, regular people are not.
Criminals are armed, regular people are not = crime GOES UP.
Two words:
Adware
Spyware
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
KaZaA wanted to sue Google because it distributed (well, actually hyperlinked.. but that's what they intended in the legal complaint they filed) illegal copies of it's copyrighted property.
Even though the two cases are not instrumentally similiar, I think that's hypocrisy. After all isn't RIAA trying to defend it's own copyrighted property?
I have no doubt that RIAA probably asked Sharman to hand over it's traffic data or implement some system to monitor illegal file-sharing, and KaZaA promptly refused.
I'm not advocating RIAA's recent legal actions, but I don't like the smell of hypocrisy.
Hack your mind out of its sandbox.
If the RIAA is the one being directly issued subpoenas and executing the subpoenas, then are they not, in fact, and agent of the state and should be held accountable to the same standards?
[RIAA] says its concern is artists. That's true, in just the sense that a cattle rancher is concerned about its cattle.
"I know how things are in America. I've seen 90210."
i love a good fight, and i always root for tthe underdog.
now, if we can only get the Canadian goevrnment to produce some decent weed.
Back on IRC.
Quack, quack.
Seriously.
Teh UaS: tehy use "myles" or soemting lyk dat
But this doesn't really mean much. Kazaa's best argument is that the RIAA used illegal software with Kazaa lite. Maybe they could even win on that. That only helps the Kazaa company. The RIAA only needs to use Kazaa proper or raid other networks to continue precisely what they've been doing this whole time. Sorry, but it looks like Joe P2P doesn't stand to gain anything from this.
I doubt the courts will rule in Kazaa's favor. Imagine the precedent, provide a way for massive piracy and by means of a "Terms of Services" restrict the legal beneficiaries of the pirated material from having access to see what and who is pirating, and you very quickly our IP system will crumble.
Yeah yeah, I know, File sharing networks have legitimate uses, too. But 90% of them aren't being used "ligitimately".
Thanks,
Leabre
Just encrypt the network, even with something weak. Then set up an agreement that to join the network you must use the official client and put some legalese that would make it illegal to spy on other users and get personal info. Then when they want to get user info, they have to crack the network and BAM!, hit with the DMCA. If we have to live with this amazingly stupid law, we might as well use it as a weapon instead of letting people beat us with it.
Dude, I'm drunk. Where is she?
OK, suppose this: The RIAA does a search and comes up that JoeBob1900 has some particular song on his computer, obtains a subpoena, and sends it along the legal pipeline. Supposing this person challenges this subpoena and eventually winds up in court, does the RIAA have any substantial evidence to support that he actually *does* have that song? It sounds to me like if they don't physically have a computer to show to the court, they've got nothing on him. For all they know, he could have simply had a file by whatever name they were looking for. Unless they've got an MD5SUM or something based on the actual contents of what they're looking for, do they really have much of a case? Just my .02
If a person is sharing files directly off their hard drive and they have a "read me" or "terms of service" file posted with the file collection, can a person legally specify the usage of their machine to protect their property and machine from similar RIAA abuses? I don't suppose one has to be an organization or business to establish a terms of service by which one must abide before using any services or information the machines has available. This is very curious. If there are any posters here at Slashdot with a better than passing understanding of how all this works, please share your insights about this. I love the irony that the same TOS shenanigans that so many companies use to fuck over their customers can also be employed to protect people from the RIAA.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
RIAA got pwn3d. Hahahahahahahahhahaah!
So, from what i get the RIAA is violating the Kazaa EULA. If the RIAA wins and it is found that a EULA is unenforceable, wouldnt this be a good thing and be precedent for finding the EULA's by other company's unenforceable?
Except that you aren't free to modify the source to fit your needs.
It's supposed to be a *joke*. It is, isn't it?
I almost fell for it.
-- MarkusQ
It's obvious you never worked for a .com before :)
No, I'm New Here
Is it just me or is there too much litigation going on these days? It seems that no company can be sued without countersuing, and then a million think tanks have to write position papers on all this shit. When it comes down to it, people on both sides are exploiting weaknesses in our legal code. The only difference is we sympathize with Kazaa because they are 'on our side'. RIAA claims that we infringe on their copyrights by downloading music, and we do; Kazaa says the RIAA violates their network terms of use, and they do. Why can't they call it a draw and go home? ~UltraSkuzzi Will companies go back to innovating, instead of litigating?
~UltraSkuzzi
This comment is liscensed by SCO.
Rapists sue women for being hot and landing them in prison.
Are we now all hoping that EULAs are enforceable? Nonono! This is the exact opposite standpoint the Slashdot public claims to hold. Don't make a 180 on the principle just because it could serve you well here. Kazaa better lose this case or all our souls are belong to them after the next click-through license you see.
I just searched for "Kazza Lite" on Google, and no results were censored! Does anyone know what has changed?
After Ward's lawyer complained that Ward is a "computer neophyte" who never installed file-sharing software or downloaded any songs, the case was dropped in federal court in Boston on Friday.
Well, that is pretty stupid. THey must be mass mailing these things, knowing that everyone has mp3s. this one just happened to miss. Soon you will get mailing saying Pizza(TM) is on sale, and also you have been sued by the RIAA.
SAILING MISHAP
Kazaa clients should upload all files out in ROT13. Then say as part of the EULA that the user may not decrypt the files under penalty of DMCA-raping.
This way if the RIAA tries to get files, we can sue them under the DMCA.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
In a few years when this is all over /. should compile the stories of p2p vs. riaa into a book. No author could write something so twisted and crazy as this.
-Tim Louden
What the FUCK?
Jherico
What can the average user can do to ensure his security? "Nothing, you're screwed"
help from the French!
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
yes you are... if you have your own instance of legalSystem, you can modify the source to your heart's content...
:)
but as long as you use the hosted solution, you are bound by what your hosting provider uses...
"Go to CNN [for a] spell-checked, fact-checked summary" -- CmdrTaco
Well said. Nothing like the essential elements of effective communications: clarity and brevity.
The headline that CNN posted doesnt say specifically who Sharman Networks is filing suit against, it just says "record labels"
Looks interesting. When the RIAA used the program, they agreed to some things. Some of these are privacy based: not to "Monitor traffic or make search requests in order to accumulate information about individual users," or " Collect or store personal data about other users."
Plus, if one person downloaded once and installed it on multiple computers in order to do their big search, he's breaking the license just as I would be if I bought a copy of Windows and installed it on all 50 computers in a company: "This Licence does not permit you to install the Software on more than one computer at a time"
And the one that wraps it up: "It is you responsibility to comply with the terms of this Licence...Your rights under this Licence will terminate immediately and without prior notice if : you violate any term of this License..."
So they did one of the things in the first two paragraphs, they violate the terms of the license and are no longer legal to run Kazaa -- they might as well be caught with a pirate copy of Windows. And KazaaLite, if they were using it, says absolutely no commercial use allowed.
Would somebody please mod the previous post to -700: Racist Recruiter. I don't like to click on a post thinking that it is unmodded to discover it is a frigging racist post.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
Ummm... you do realize that the US isn't a democracy. Look it up. The US government is a "Republic with Democratic tendencies." Hence why things like Majority supression don't exist.
Democrat, Republican, doesn't matter, they have ALL sold out, and not always to the highest bidder. I think they're Bastards, every last one of 'em. Let 'em all die and hang on hooks!
Hitler creates paintings in Vienna in the 1930s. Good. Hitler tries to exterminate the jews in the 1940s. Evil.
Hitler's paintings sucked. That's why he had to get a new job as dictator.
Red eye's at night, Hackers delight. Red eye's in the morning, Professors Warning.
I've known at least one cute chick that reads Slashdot, there may be more.
Foley Hoag, the Boston firm represents the RIAA.
Colin J. Zick, the Foley Hoag lawyer
http://www.fhe.com/profile.asp?aid=230
Most people have called the Recording Industry Association of America's "long standing admiration for the importance of copyright law" strictly "self-serving."
The Recording Industry Association of America called Sharman's "newfound admiration for the importance of copyright law" ironic and "self-serving."
And once again, it seems a reminder is neccessary that we of /. are not of one mind. Some think network protocols are sacred property, others who read/post disagree. How bout that?
Looks good for your age..
When you wanks say 9/11 the whole world thinks you mean the ninth of november.
i find this one of those brain-busting situations...morally, i can't support a lawsuit in which the plaintiff is accusing the defendant of refusing to install nasty spyware (are webhancer, bde, and toptext still bundled with kazaa?) i haven't touched most mainstream p2p clients in years, for that very reason. but i also obviously can't support the RIAA, for obvious reasons.
even though my support either way matters absolutely nothing in the long run, i am supportive of the fact that this lawsuit exists. why? because it'll distract them just a little bit more from doing other things that will piss me off.
and by the way, i don't know if the record companies are still using the same "encryption" scheme for preventing ripping tracks as they did in 2001, when tori amos's "strange little girls" was released. i bought that cd (used, of course...gold-stamped with "promotional use only"), and it's one of those corrupted discs. it doesn't play at all on my main computer...it just hangs when i try to access the disc's filespace, but i have a very old compaq (the ones they sold without audio cables and no way to hook one up, just so that they could save a buck by cutting corners, at their customers' expense) and i am able to listen to and rip all the tracks with it. i was highly surprised to find that that compaq is actually useful for something other than an expensive doorstop!
"fools and their leaders, they have no doubts." --levellers, "believers"
I am in 9th grade and I am writing a speech on how the DMCA is unconstitutional and why it should be repealed. I have a main outline but any sugestions to help prove my agrument would be helpful... thanks
If I flagrantly violate the Windows EULA by decompiling, reverse engineering, benchmarking, and doing who-knows-what else to it, could I then absolve myself of this by telling them, "I just did it to see if you guys were up to anything illegal"?
Okay, what about news agencies that committ a crime as part of a sting operation? For example, let's say that Geraldo decides he's going to do an investigative report on how secure our airports are after 9/11. So, Geraldo decides he's going to load a suitcase with something that looks like a bomb to see if anyone notices, and he's going to walk through the metal detector with a box cutter.
Now let's say that the security works and Geraldo is caught, and his cameraman catches the whole thing on tape. Do we send Geraldo to JAIL for being a terrorist?
Or does he get off because he was testing the system?
Now flipside, let's say the suitcase with the "bomb" gets through, flies to miami and back and nobody notices, and Geraldo airs his report showing the gross incompetence of our airline safety.
Does the government bust into the studio and arrest Geraldo at that point? After all, he's voilated the law, defacto, he proved that the system failed until he admitted his crime. But the crime took place nevertheless.
Do we let him off for testing the system, or do we haul his ass into jail for 50 years?
And if you decide he deserves to be arrested, what does that say about our country, our freedom of the press, or our ability to question our government? You might as well burn the constitution.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Yes, lets get Kazaa lite banned, since we all love kazaa spyware etc., and lets set a precedent to prevent 3rd party clients from using a particular protocol so AOL can sue your favorite IM clone software maker. That's a really good idea /.ers.
Vote for Pedro
If it's just a license agreement keeping the riaa or whoever from collecting ips, then it could give a little more fuel to the idea that the riaa needs legal protection to go after who they want. Something like a law that allows them to practice their own vigilantism, like we saw attempted not too long ago.
Of course, it could also lead the idea that software or click through licenses/agreements are a bunch of bs to begin with. Maybe they are?
Just some thoughts.
J
America is not simply a democracy my friend. We are, to be quite specific about it, an integrative-moderate-majoritarian-democracy. I could write (and unfortunatly have written) a 30 page essay about what this means. But the long and the short of it goes something like this: It is a democracy with built-in political incentives for inter-issue party appeal. The government runs on a constant level of spin which encourages the political-elites to gravitate to a moderate and generally speaking well-justified central ideal. All that jibber jabber basically means that, we make it clear to our political leaders that more than anything we care about stability and prosperity - and they learn that if they wanna stay around they shouldn't rock the boat.
-dewhite
Guns illegal = only people who don't respect the law have guns.
ehmmm, you seem to be forgetting something here
Guns illegal = only people with guns are either breaking or enforcing the law.
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Ah, and when I post the story when it goes out on the AP wire, it gets rejected :(
--
www.nitemarecafe.com
I think that an easy way to fix RIAA from accessing computers and using the information against you would be to change the programs. If they required you accept a clause that you can't use information gather from the network against anyone on the network. Without accepting the clause you don't get access to the network. If you use information against someone, it is then obtained illegally.
Just a thought.
I'm rooting for Kazaa just like everyone else on this one, but seriously... this stands about as much chance as the old FTP servers I used to frequent that displayed a banner claiming "If you are a member of a government agency, including law enforcement, you must disconnect now."
Law enforcement agencies have investigatory powers granted by law, which supersede any "Terms of Use" an ftp server may impose on you. The RIAA has no such power, and would be forced to disconnect if the terms said "No RiAA". They can not go ahead, violating the ToS and then justify it by evidence they may (or may not) find afterwards, when traversing the FTP server.
At least so far. They've managed to get subpoena power already (with a clerk's stamp cloak), look out for when they get investigatory powers as well...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Stealing a car to drive somebody to the hospital is different than using GAIM to chat. Using GAIM to log into the AOL networks is more comparable to stealing a car to drive to work. Extenuating circumstances all work in effectively the same way as the self-defense murdur idea: You can only break most laws (theft, homicide, assault, trespassing, breaking and entering, leaving the scene of an accident, for example) to avert immediate danger of death, severe bodily harm, rape, or kidnapping.
The same was argued about VCRs and as they say the rest is history.
Practically any technology can be used for illegal purposes. Cars, phones, TVs, computers, planes, medicine, bycicles, you name it.
Should we ban everything for that reason? Nope, obviously not, but for some nebulous logic there are people like you making this same point that has no logical base whatsoever.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
And it's the rest of you wanks what done got it mixed up. Putting the day before the month... great googly moogly what were you thinking?
</sarcasm>
Uhh, how do you think that they caught the RIAA? Yay spyware! What?! I mean, spyware bad.... head spinning... p a i n...
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Yea, and let's not forget a few years back those four cops who gang-raped a guy with a broom handle. Some of those "enforcers" are no better than criminals themselves.
You know. Paratroopers called in to ensure that minority students could attend school and not get killed?
What Is Racism?
The 'racist' double standard: how Whites are made to feel guilty and "hateful" for loving their own people and culture.
by Thomas Jackson
There is surely no nation in the world that holds "racism" in greater horror than does the United States. Compared to other kinds of offenses, it is thought to be somehow more reprehensible. The press and public have become so used to tales of murder, rape, robbery, and arson, that any but the most spectacular crimes are shrugged off as part of the inevitable texture of American life. "Racism" is never shrugged off. For example, when a White Georgetown Law School student reported earlier this year that black students are not as qualified as White students, it set off a booming, national controversy about "racism." If the student had merely murdered someone he would have attracted far less attention and criticism.
Racism is, indeed, the national obsession. Universities are on full alert for it, newspapers and politicians denounce it, churches preach against it, America is said to be racked with it, but just what is racism?
Dictionaries are not much help in understanding what is meant by the word. They usually define it as the belief that one's own ethnic stock is superior to others, or as the belief that culture and behavior are rooted in race. When Americans speak of racism they mean a great deal more than this. Nevertheless, the dictionary definition of racism is a clue to understanding what Americans do mean. A peculiarly American meaning derives from the current dogma that all ethnic stocks are equal. Despite clear evidence to the contrary, all races have been declared to be equally talented and hard- working, and anyone who questions the dogma is thought to be not merely wrong but evil.
The dogma has logical consequences that are profoundly important. If blacks, for example, are equal to Whites in every way, what accounts for their poverty, criminality, and dissipation? Since any theory of racial differences has been outlawed, the only possible explanation for black failure is White racism. And since blacks are markedly poor, crime-prone, and dissipated, America must be racked with pervasive racism. Nothing else could be keeping them in such an abject state.
All public discourse on race today is locked into this rigid logic. Any explanation for black failure that does not depend on White wickedness threatens to veer off into the forbidden territory of racial differences. Thus, even if today's Whites can find in their hearts no desire to oppress blacks, yesterday's Whites must have oppressed them. If Whites do not consciously oppress blacks, they must oppress them Unconsciously. If no obviously racist individuals can be identified, then societal institutions must be racist. Or, since blacks are failing so terribly in America, there simply must be millions of White people we do not know about, who are working day and night to keep blacks in misery. The dogma of racial equality leaves no room for an explanation of black failure that is not, in some fashion, an indictment of White people.
The logical consequences of this are clear. Since we are required to believe that the only explanation for non-White failure is White racism, every time a non-White is poor, commits a crime, goes on welfare, or takes drugs, White society stands accused of yet another act of racism. All failure or misbehavior by non-Whites is standing proof that White society is riddled with hatred and bigotry. For precisely so long as non-Whites fail to succeed in life at exactly the same level as Whites, Whites will be, by definition, thwarting and oppressing them. This obligatory pattern of thinking leads to strange conclusions. First of all, racism is a sin that is thought to be committed almost exclusively by White people. Indeed, a black congressman from Chicago, Gus Savage, and Coleman Young, the black mayor of Detroit, have argued that only White people can be racist. Likewise, in 1987, t
Either UCITA or DMCA had a clause about unlawful circumvention. If there is some part here that is encrypted (xor 81 or whatever), even if documented, could be unlawful circumvention, and could land them 5 years of jail or something like that. I am gonna read and check up on that.
- - - Non Caffeine Drink or Drink Error
The U.S. is a Representative Republic, NOT a Democracy!
I keep reading statements by people here that talk about how Slashdot is being hypocritical by wanting Kazaa to win. That "Slashdot supposedly hates software licenses when they don't serve them." What the hell? That's always been the truth. EULAs are bad when they make stupid provisions, not that EULAs are bad. Don't forget that the GPL is an EULA.
I hope to God that they don't rule EULAs are generally valid!
"
Don't be obtuse.
By opening a communication with someone with that statement, aren't you violating some of the basic tenets of good and polite communication, and, thereby, being a little obtuse yourself?
"
Buy a dictionary, stupid.
Look obtuse up, lazy.
And stop that notorious perambulating in public!
Why vote for the lesser evil?
It's people like you what cause unrest.
aye, and let's not forget the criminals who occasionally help an old lady cross the street. But hold on! Could this be true? Isn't everything plain and simply black and white? Could there be shades of grey? The horror!
People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
It's a good thing we have a representative and federalist system with three branches on both the national and state levels, various checks and balances between it all, and overall limits to the power of each government.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson