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Apple G5 Ads Banned In UK
Justen writes "The Independent Television Commission has quietly banned Apple from airing an advertisement (in QuickTime here) for the Power Mac G5 in the UK. The Committee says that, prior to the initial broadcast of the ad, it was critical of the assertion that the Power Mac G5 is "the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer." However, Apple supplied what was asserted to be "fair and even" data, based partially on SPEC benchmarks, which "substantiated" Apple's claims and "satisfied" the concerns of their "IT expert." However, the Committee says some "viewers complained that the advertising was misleading," and thus, after an investigation, it reversed its original decision. The Committee has now decided that the ad "should not be re-shown in its current form." Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year."
Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year.
.. sure, but I'll also note that The site www.itc.org.uk is running Microsoft-IIS/4.0 on NT4/Windows 98. It's a ploy by Microsoft to bring that 36% number 'under control'..
..where's my tin foil hat?
Trolling is a art,
Conspiracy theorists take note, Apple's sales in the UK are up 36%, so far, this year.
Which conspiracy theory should I be concerned with? The theory that the ITC is out to thwart Apple or the conspiracy between Apple and ITC to sell more Macs?
Glad to see the UK take a stand for integrity in advertising.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought
While some Apple fans may consider this censorship, personally I applaud the enforcement of standards in advertising.
If standards were forced for truth-in-advertising in the U.S., we'd not only never hear about the G5 being the fastest computer, we'd also not hear about how much we can do for so little from Microsoft. We'd also stop having the stupid claims in oversized truck and SUV ads, diet pills, etc.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
It's an Apple commercial hosted on Apple's site. Ehh perhaps there's a new definition of 'irony' I haven't been informed of yet.
Paul Lenhart writes words!
I remember learning on a tour of Ben and Jerry's ice cream factory that in the UK, one cannot advertise anything that cannot be _PROVEN_. IIRC, Ben and Jerry's had to rename one of their flavors from something like "World's Best Ice Cream" to something else.
This seems like an instance of _that_.
PLEASE, no one make any "lickable" puns.
-A
Now THATS irony!
That an Apple ad is in quicktime? I think not.
This page was generated by a Barrel of Circus Midgets, and that is the way I like it!!!
Mac's are also not faster than light.
Well...that shut me up. I actually thought the video would be of the ban(wow, I'm an idiot now that I think about it)
As of 10/06/03, I hate COBOL developers.
Key word "partially." Compare the Apple results to the official x86/Xeon/etc. scores. For an even bigger laugh, compare the official results to the ones that Apple claimed the Intel machines scored.
;)
Maybe Al Franken should write a book about Steve Jobs and his advertising group.
You're right: It isn't irony.
On the other hand, it is preaching to the converted.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
Must buy a G5. Must have Most Powerful Personal Computer (TM). Must believe advertising. They wouldn't lie to me.
By the time the ad was out, it was no longer the most powerful computer.
Gator/Claria is Spyware.
"the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer."
Before writing, be sure to have the brain connected.
I don't think any particular computer can be considered "the fastest in the world." Each architecture is designed such that one will always outshine the other in a specific set of functions. Apple may be faster in benchmark X, while Intel is faster in benchmark Y, while AMD is faster in benchmark Z, etc. etc. Apple does have some validity to their claim, but so would Intel and AMD if they were to announce themselves as the fastest in the world to.
That's after the fact though. Companies will always proclaim their products as "the best, the fastest, the strongest." It's a fact of marketing- what company would say "Our products are mediocre, behind X and Y" and expect decent sales?
I take diet pills so I can fit into my RED DRESS and be on TELEVISION!!!!
Yeah, the Pentium IVs that outperform the G5s do so in such an impersonal way.
Sure about that? If so, click here.
They pulled the ad because EIGHT viewers complained? That's a little more responsive than over here in the US. (I'm not sure that's a good thing.)
One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
Something else isn't the fastest either...
Loading...
I find this somewhat terrifying. While I agree that there should be some truth in advertising, I find it disturbing that eight people are able to file a complaint to an oversight board and have a commercial such as this pulled. Perhaps if Apple had clearly stated a falsehood I would agree that this commercial should be pulled. However, it seems to me that this issue is open to debate. What kind of evidence did this board want? What kind of tests would need to be done to prove Apple's assertion? I personally think that the advertiser should be given the benefit of the doubt unless there is clear and convincing evidence that the advertiser is promoting a falsehood. But I am an American, and I my cultural baggage informs my opinion, so who knows.
irony, n. 1. A figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite of that expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule in which laudatory expressions are used to imply condemnation or contempt. 2. fig. A condition of affairs or events of a character opposite to what was, or might naturally be, expected; a contradictory outcome of events as if in mockery of the promise and fitness of things.
Brought to you by the OED online!
"p2p stabbing is such a vast, untapped market"
Like I would expect a non-biased comparison from "pcworld".
I have that G5 and it did indeed blow me out the side of my house.
I wonder how long till they ban IBM's Linux Ad once they discover that Linux is not an 8-year-old boy?
But wait, there is more. I have installed Windows2003 on one of my computers, and contrary to Microsoft's TV ads, it didn't save me 5 cents per business transaction. I was hoping to make a killing on that.
In UK, I Can't Believe It's Not Butter is simply known as I Swear It's Not Butter!
Since when did people start believing commercials?
It's an Apple commercial hosted on Apple's site
He must be listening to Allanis Morrisette again.
Don't ya think?
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
In Norway we have similar rules: You cannot air commercial claiming something that might be false.
That means you cannot say your price is cheaper or faster or whatevre unless we are talking about to totally identical products. We are not here. The processor in the mac is totally different from a processor from AMD, Intel, Sun, etc. I can guarantee that if you compare a totally specialized processor for only one single operation, then that processor might be faster than the G5 processor in that particular field.
It will then be false to say the processor used in the G5 is faster, even though the other only was faster on lets say integar calculations...
I've never run a mac, but what is faster always depends upon standards. Computer speed standards are a dime-a-dozen, which other computer manufacturers counter with their own standards. User groups insist their machine "feels" faster in real-world processing or that the standard is arbitrary. However, if there is a standard that is objective/quantifiable, the only concern is if the units are specified. Is 1 greater than 2? It is if you are comparing mach to miles/hour.
The ad should be allowed if they specify the comparison standard. And as all things caveat emptor.
It is dangerous to be right on a subject on which the established authorities are wrong. - Voltaire
You can buy Athlon and P4 based computers that'll stomp on the G5 for certain tasks (Such as playing some games). Thus, I think Apple is misleading the consumer, since their advertising seems to lead the consumer thinking it's the fastest in general, which it clearly is not.
I think the ITC is right to ban the advert, but then again, I think there are a lot of adverts on British TV that should be banned.
Stupid benchmarks, and juvenile "my processor is better than yours" arguments aside, I was pointing out that apple claims that the G5 is the fastest PERSONAL computer. I don't count beowulf clusters and supercomputers as PERSONAL computers. See, the key word here is PERSONAL.
one cannot advertise anything that cannot be _PROVEN_
You can if it is "obvious" that it isn't meant to be taken seriously.
Someone (possibly even CAMRA was it?? - must have been a very off day) once complained about the Heineken ads, on the grounds that it was not true that it "refreshed" some of "the parts other beers cannot reach" as illustrated on the advertisements.
The complaint was thrown out as being daft, because it was perfectly clear that you weren't supposed to believe the advertisements in the first place.
Other banned ads included Burger King for claiming to have the best tasting fries, Ford for claiming to have the smoothest-running automobile, and Wal-Mart for claiming to have low prices everyday.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
I'd like to see some organization go after some of Apple's other promotional material as well.
Apple's G5 Introduction Video is full of heavily edited quotes and comments from various industry leaders. I would personally like to see the raw comments, not Apple's spin.
So do you think there will be a change in policy ;-)
after the new Top 500 list comes out in about 2
weeks ?
Adverts should be held to certain degrees of honesty and integrity. In the US, you can (almost) say what you like, and get away with it. It's very rare that anyone's disciplined in any way, shape or form for misleading or deceptive practices, even when it's blatantly obvious fraud of the consumer is intended.
In England, a few hundred complaints is usually enough to spark an ITC investigation into wrongful advertising. However, they're slow, beaurocratic, and often act in ways which gives the product and the misleading claims far more publicity.
Nonetheless, they do some good. When a rogue advert is found and stopped, it does help bring a touch of reality to the industry. People tend to be a bit more skeptical, a bit more suspicious of claims that seem too good to be true. Which is good! Because it seems too good to be true, it probably is.
Here is one of those instances that I'd like each country to borrow a bit from the other. I'd like to see more free speech protection in the UK, but I'd also like to see commercial speech better regulated in the US.
(Commercial speech should not have the same protections as other forms of speech. It should be protected, especially where it is true, but it shouldn't be absolved of all responsibility - it has a lot more weight and power than just some person you happen to meet, and that weight and power needs to be accompanied by responsibility.)
Mindless Note: I honestly believe that the UK and the US sit on different halves of understanding how to make a civilization that can respect itself and others, while remaining strong, free and a damn good place to be. I don't pretend to know how to fit those halves together, or what bits of which are the good bits. All I know is that both countries achieve a degree of happiness in areas that the other can't, that both have strengths the other doesn't, and that on the level of individuals, the wisest are the ones who learn from others.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
or space monkeys. Gotta be one of those two. It's just gotta.
--- Ban humanity.
Macs arent PCs, at least not in the way most people understand the term, they're macs, they might be personal computers, but then so is the pocket calculator i have next to me.
World's fastest processor? Now that apple no longer has the worlds god damned slowest processor, its no wonder their sales are picking up. I have a slide rule that can compute faster than my G4...
They said it is the world most powerful PERSONAL computer. Not the worlds most powerful computer, or worlds most powerful workstation... ~Marcus
Yawn.
In iTunes on my dual-G5 I can stop the M.C. Hammer track, "U Can't Touch This" in less than a 10th of second.
--- What?
Strait man? Is that a man in a straight jacket? Some guy who monitors ship traffic in the Strait Of Gibraltar? Mark Knopfler?
Lesson 1, Grasshopper: if you're going to troll, at least spell it correctly.
--- Ban humanity.
I'd like to see a beowulf cluster of these... :P
Macworld did the mac testing for it, anyway.
Eight complaints??? are they out of their minds? I believe that is why they call it advertising.
Sheesh..."The New G5 -- quite possibly, almost nearly, on a good day, the fastest desktop computer in some part of the world."
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Yeah sure, you've been paying attention recently, I can tell by your wonderful insight.
-1 (Troll) is antihammer
http://www.asa.org.uk/
SUBSTANTIATION
3.2 If there is a significant division of informed opinion about any claims made in a marketing communication they should not be portrayed as generally agreed.
HONESTY
6.1 Marketers should not exploit the credulity, lack of knowledge or inexperience of consumers.
TRUTHFULNESS
7.1 No marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise.
COMPARISONS WITH IDENTIFIED COMPETITORS AND/OR THEIR PRODUCTS
18.1 Comparative claims are permitted in the interests of vigorous competition and public information. They should neither mislead nor be likely to mislead.
18.2 They should compare products meeting the same needs or intended for the same purpose.
18.3 They should objectively compare one or more material, relevant, verifiable and representative features of those products, which may include price.
No reason why you couldn't apply these rules to microsoft or intel adverts and get them pulled. They are normally more careful though.
Apple UK PC sales up 36%
And I throught they sold Macs..?
You forget how small a country the UK is.
From what to what?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
...to mark an entire thread 'redundant'?
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
European cars are abysmal? Ever heard of Mercedes, Ferrari perhaps? The food point is true though but thats the french (or at least thats my excuse and I'm sticking to it).
Dear U.K.A.A.
I who do I make the cheque out to that will stop the airing of the Apple G5 ad?
Thanks,
Bill Gates
OK, name me 5 european computer brands.
...
You might in general have a point, I couldn't say. But here specifically
Two things:
1) in Europe, statements like biggest, best, most satisfying, blablabla are frowned upon, whereas in the US everything is so biggest that you have to invent a whole range of superlatives for newerestbestest products.
2) we also are a bit sceptical of advertising, and consumers react adversary to ads that they feel are incorrect, immoral or degeneratory. That's why those panels and advisory commisions are so rapid to respond. If not, they get regulations from above, better to do it themselves than to let politicians rule the game.
That's why the G5 ad was banned.
I don't think it's the best ad Apple ever made, and I think it's a bit silly to state you've got the fastest PC while there are so many better reasons to buy an Apple, but I understand why they did it - recover from the "Apple is slow" perception.
What I don't understand is the reaction from those british complainers. For years they've been bombarded with the most ridiculous statements from PeeCee-makers and developers, and now that Apple joins that stupid game it suddenly bothers them...
I think, therefore I am...I think.
The only ones who seem to be able to get away with trashy advertising are politicians with pre-election advertisements (on billboards, etc). Even those are tame by US standards.
Why is it that some government agency can say what some broadcaster puts on the air.
When an advertisement lies, at least in the US, you have the right to sue for false advertisement. This takes it in front of a court in the public spotlight to be resolved between the business and the consumer. I see the government's position in this to only regulate the frequencies used and the wattage of each station, no more.
There is only one true monopoly, and that's the government. Even though I doubt it, but what if microsoft had something to do with this? What are you gonna do? Go to another television station in the UK. Wait a second, they are all controled by the ITC.
NO, I can't spell. No, I do not have well formed grammer skills.
I complained about a Dell ad a few years ago when they claimed to be the fastest PC. This was at the time when Apple was running the snail adverts. I got a letter back from the advertising standards council saying that the letters PC related only to machines with Intel chips in them and even if Apple machines were faster it didn't matter because Dell made PCs and Apple didn't.
"I" think the "guy who" submitted this "article" has "gone a bit (...) nuts" with the "quotes"
The next time you watch TV ads, take note of the wording of their claims. It's usually something very vague, or followed by small print / fast talking disclaimer. People have gotten used to this.
Apple, on the other hand, blatently lied, saying their new G5 was "the worlds fastest, most powerful personal computer". They didn't say it was faster at a certain task, nor did they even mention it requires a unique OS and unique software. To 90% of the population, a Personal Computer is an x86 box running MS Windows.
Apple has made huge lies in their ads for years. They were finally caught. All I can say is "ITS ABOUT TIME!".
The Dell Intern ads may be annoying as all hell, but at least they're honest.
The first time I saw that G5 ad here in the US I wondered how they could get away with total bullshit false advertising like that.
Yeah, as if those fans could really blow you through the wall. Sheez, what do they think we are, dumb?
I think, therefore I am...I think.
OK, if it was decided that the G5 ad couldn't be shown, when are they going to get around to banning the STUPID Centrino ad they're showing in the UK at the moment? It shows a mountaineer halfway up Mt Everest talking to his kids using his wireless-enabled Centrino laptop. I don't think anyone has installed a WiFi hotspot up Everest, so I can't see it's entirely representative of the technology.
:)
Yeah, OK, it says "service depends on availability of WiFi hotspots" in small letters at the bottom of the screen, but come on - the implication of the main ad is just ridiculous! Especially for the 99% of people who have no idea what it's all about.
It's a bit like the P3 (I think) advert that claimed that a new processor would speed up your downloads - that one got pulled fairly quick
-- "There's no explaining the things that might happen; there's now a new home for technology in fashion."
So are the Intel adds which imply Hyper Threading will make your computer more secure banned?
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
"Tired of viruses, ugly looking icons, a confusing line of operating systems? Want to have the power of BSD in a stylish design? Hate Windows and are not so sure yet about Linux? Well, then buy Mac."
I'm not trolling with my love for Apple here. Instead, just pointing out some ways for Apple to go about being a larger thorn without having to argue their point. Novell has been known for their outspoken attitude at times, so perhaps it's not so far fetched to imagine a Novell ad in the near future promoting Linux in a similar vein?
I think this is a good thing, as long as the ax swings both ways(e.g. Intel saying they make the fastest chips, M$ saying Windows XP is the most stable version yet). It's difficult for any computer manufacturer to say they are the fastest, most powerful, etc. because that's true for only a very short period of time.
Too bad we couldn't apply this in the US. Especially during the campaign season. Imagine politicians can't throw mud at each other. Better yet, imagine if they can't mention their opponent at all. Then they really would be at a loss for something to say.
Everyone in the UNIX world knows that SPEC numbers have been BS since day one. Almost every smart vendor has tweaked their compilers and runtime environment in every which way to allow for the fastest possible SPEC marks. Don't believe me? Dig around the usenet and SPEC archives. Every time SPEC updates their CPU suite, the major UNIX vendors scramble to tweak their compilers. The lag time is usually about a month. The score differences make for some fun and entertaining reading.
At any rate, Apple is the first company to cheat at SPEC **AND** brag about it in an international ad campagin. Why someone else hasn't made a fuss yet is beyond me.
It's about time, Apple. Shape up or ship out.
Listening to Steve Job's BS is fun for a little while, but after a year he starts to sound like that annoying relative that is constantly trying to sell you the latest get rich scheme each month.
tee hee...
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
In the world... so they must not TOTALLY suck w.r.t. performance.
;-)
I'm talking about VA tech, BTW. Have a looksie at the news
Umm those numbers show Apple blowing the doors off the competition whenever the code is optimised for their processor, I think it proves exactly the opposite of what you think it does.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I believe this was the year that a US judge ruled that corporations have the same basic rights, including freedom of speech, as individuals. It's been downhill ever since...
Hi everyone, I e-mailed Apple about this not long ago and I am over the moon the ad is not being showed anymore. I own a HP ZX6k with dual IA-64's. It is most definetly faster than a dual G5!!!!
Thats all the Carlsberg beer adverts do, probably. You got to understand we're different over here. And according to the ITC at least 8 of us are REALLY different.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Due to the technical nature of the advertiser's response, the ITC asked the BACC to refer the complaints and the response to the BACC's expert.
BACC guy #1: Hey, you seen the reply we got from Apple?
BACC guy #2: Yeah, what the hell does that crap mean, anyway?
BACC guy #1: I dunno... hey, doesn't Bill in Accounts have an Amiga? They're almost like Apples, right?
BACC guy #2: Yeah, right! Hey, Bill! Which is better -- Mac or PC?
Bill: Well, that's a difficult question to answer...
BACC guy #1: Keep it short.
BACC guy #2: And simple.
Bill: Well, they're pretty much the same, as far as normal users a...
BACC guy #1: Woah, that's it...
BACC guy #2: *writes* "the G5 is generally as fast as the best Intel-based workstations currently available" -- thanks Bill!
Bill: But, uh...
Yep, because Premier 6, a discontinued and unoptimized software product, and Microsoft Word benchmarks between systems (some of which have RAID arrays or 256 MB graphics cards) is /completely/ valid...
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
... but get a few mates with their G5's together and it bloody well is the fastest personal computer.
This sig has been deprecated.
Know why Englishmen drink warm beer?
:)
They all use Lucas [TM] refrigerators.
Not many people know that the manufacturer of Land Rovers attempted to market a computer. Why did they stop? They could not find a way to get it to leak oil
And thus the British disdain for anything truly useful
Nah, he's using a satellite phone with a diesel generator. However, the warmth coming from the laptop is enough to keep him nice and toasty, so he can run out to crank the generator once an hour and keep talking to his kids. ;)
-T
Now come back in one billion years when you have evolved. :-)
--- Ban humanity.
PC == Microsoft, where PC is defined as "Piece of Crap."
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Reality: Apple was airing an add that did not conform to our rules, therfore it was axed.
;)
Some people rightly pointed out that the ad was iffy, and action was taken.. go home US fanboy!
puts ("Python r0cks\n");
The reasoning behind this ban is extremely simple and not atypical in EU regulation: companies who have a strong market position (e.g. the producer of the world's fastest desktop PC) and are based overseas are subject to more stringent regulation in the EU so that the home grown products do not have to compete on a level playing field.
Uh-huh.
And the fact that European Macs are all manufactured in Ireland impacts on all this how, exactly?
One little point though: Apple vs. AMD is IMHO off-target as an analogy. AMD and Intel sell computer parts (or license manufacturing rights, etc.). Apple and Dell and their ilk sell computers. Of course, AMD and Intel engage in shady speed-sells marketing as well...
Point is, I do agree cuz I'm sure Micron, AlienWare (?), and others make PCs that would crush a G5 in most relevent benchmarks (which is a whole different can of worms, or viruses...).
Queens of the Stone Age - they rule
Apples claim:
"the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer"
Assessment:
"the G5 was generally as fast as the best Intel-based workstations currently available"
Apple never claimed to have the fastest workstations instead the fastest personal computer. The only way they were able to demonstrate that Apple was misleading was by using a different class of computer (which cost much more).
Microsoft: reinventing the square wheel
Dells aren't PCs, because they're not made by IBM. Please type out "PC-Compatible" instead of PC every time you use the term, or you are lying in whatever claim you are making.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
I wish to lodge a complaint against Mars Bars. This clearly missleading advertising. I only just found out that they don't really come from Mars!!!
They should change their name.
"It is difficult to catch a black cat in a dark room. Especially if there is no cat there." - Confucius
Oh wait. You mean I am supposed to use my judgement and work out what bits are the truth and what bits are advertsing hyperbole.
Silly me! I though every part of every ad on TV was literal truth.
No you're not. You get a page with QuickTime in the middle and a link to download QuickTime...
Online & Feelin' Fine
IIRC, the adverts claimed the G5 was the most powerful _personal_ computer. I'm not entirely sure how many people's desktops carry Xeons, but I'm willing to bet it's not enough to consider them PCs.
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
I've never seen these ads.. do you have a link? I'd be interested in seeing how they claim ht will make your computer more secure.
Apparently extreme truth in advertising is necessary to not confuse the English mind. The ad clearly states "The worlds fastest, most powerful, personal computer."
Where the hell did you get the idea that "big iron boxes like Crays and IBM" are personal computers?
In the US, superlatives are OK, as by some measure something can be the most, best, or greatest. The problem is when some product is advertised with comparatives. A product can be the best, but just better requires irrefutable proof.
They said fastest and most powerful, and by the SPEC benches they submitted, it is. They didn't say the G5 is faster than a Dell dual Xeon 3.0 running XP or a HP Pavilario running Red Hat because this type of apples to oranges comparison would require specific results and would throw off the simplicity of the advertisement.
Anyone who takes the claims of a twelve word advertisement as gospel is a retarded idiot who shouldn't be allowed to buy anything more expensive than a pack of bubble gum. If this is the situation in England, then I truly feel sorry for the few intelligent people who are trapped there and have to be protected by this type of "truth in advertising" laws.
-- Len
And I'm not often one to say that. I think the US is too lax in what advertisers get away with. Like take pro audio. So frequently you'll see equipment advertised with SNR and synamic range specs that, if you measure it, aren't even close. False advertising? No, it is that an accepted practise is to print the spec of the D/A or A/D CONVERTER itself. Great, except that is only half the equation. After the signal goes out it needs to be amplified to line level, and also the power supply affects the whole thing. So with poor supporting electronics, you can have much less than what the converter is capable of.
This I first found out about when M-Audio released their Delta 1010 and I wanted to get one. It's specs were rather worse than much of the competition, yet reviews were glowing and testing showed it to have an superbly low noise floor. So what gives? Well the numbers they reported were teh real, no BS, properly measured, off a production unit numbers. It WAS what you got. The others were reporting the converter numbers. When you actually tested them, they performed worse.
Things like this I'd like to see go away. I'd like it to be required that any spec you choose to report for your production model must be one that it will actually meet or exceed. No one-off demo units, no theoritical specs of components. Real specs from real units.
Along those lines would go no making "fastest" claims unless you can back it up, and not with just a single test.
At this location, you're given a choice (on the Windows side) to download Quicktime seperately, or bundled together with iTunes. So, no.
Apple may have had their ads pulled...but look at all the free media advertizing the story generated ;-)
-psy
http://www.theonion.com/3943/news2.html
Emacs: for people who just never know when to
1. The endianness is the same as all of your TCP/IP packets.
3. Keyboard shortcut support is more universal than in Windows apps.
5. It comes with developer tools.
The rest of the points are subjective and good fodder for all kinds of creative arguments on either side.
by high-spec x86 machines, across the board.
As such, claiming that it is the worlds fastest personal computer is a complete lie.
It would be like honda claiming their new civic is 'The worlds fastest car' because in their tests against other slower cars, it beat them.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
Actually, they do. All it takes to disprove a general rule is one counter-example.
I have in my hand a copy of Premiere 7 Pro. It's certainly not a discontinued and unoptomized product, and it's FAST on my Hyperthreaded 3.2 P4!
Best Buy can have you arrested
Just to respond to all the virulent rebuttals:
This test and Apple's own are opposite in principle. This one uses some of the most popular dual-platform applications on the market in each software category.
Apple's uses abstract CPU benchmarks.
Which is more worthwhile? Well, if you want to see the performance that Joe MacUser will actually be getting out of the applications he uses (such as can be found on both platforms), the PC World benchmark just makes more sense. Yeah, Premier is at the end of its lifespan. But your average mac user, frankly, does NOT LIKE CHANGE. So it's not unrealistic to include this in a "real world" benchmark, if this is to be considered such.
Apple's test reflects what performance I will get if I use my Mac exclusively to run abstract CPU speed tests. PCWorld's benchmark reflects what performance Joe MacUser will be getting out of some of the most popular apps out there (which, remember, must be dual-platform to be useful for this benchmark).
Slashdot might be banned, afer all it claims to contain "Stuff that matters" I await my -5 Mod punishment.
These are stupid benchmarks.
In particular the performance comparisons between Word on the two different Machines. Word is a COMPLETELY seperate product with minimal code-in-common between the two platforms. Even the binary file format they save to is slightly different. What this basically shows is that Word on Windows is much more optimized than it is on the Mac. Shocking. You can likely make the same statement about the Premiere/Photoshop comparisons (although I know very little about those projects).
I'm not sure what is going on with the Premiere tests, there is definitely something of interest there.
These tests show how well one application runs in comparison to another on the two platforms. Notice that the performance winners where all over the place even among the PC models... I also question the accuracy of a PC Magazine with a stopwatch in hand.
Just to much in this article that makes me say 'uhuh'.
Disclaimer: I'm a PC hardware user, running Linux. Not a particular Mac fan... Just know statistical manipulation when I see it (well someties).
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
The problem with benchmarks is that you have one group that only likes to look at synthetic benchmarks (you appear to be in that group). The other group would rather look at "real world" benchmarks. In this case, comparing Word on a PC and a Mac. You can argue that the PC version is more optimized, but from a customer point of view, these are the only two versions they can get. Given that fact, they should base their purchase decision on available processors running with available software, not theoritical software. In other words, you may be right that an PowerPC optimized version of Word would blow the doors off the x86 version, but we'll never see it (you are of course assuming the compiler Microsoft is using for the Mac version doesn't optimize for PowerPC which I can't deny or confirm).
If you compare Apple's own SPEC marks against those on spec.org for other systems, you'll see that the G5 is slower than the Opteron, Athlon 64, or recent P4's. It's also neither the only nor the first 64bit personal computer.
The G5 based Macs are nice machine that has helped Apple catch up with the performance of PCs, but that's all.
...if it had a "laser" mounted on top.
Meh. I try.
Insert clever one liner here.
They should cut all that bragging and just say something like this. You want power? Here it is, Apple PowerPC G5. Short and simple...
The PC World benchmark says the Athlon is faster in the real world. Well looking at SPEC published benchmarks for the Athlon FX-51:
2GHz G5 (from Apple, not on SPEC): 840 (float), 800 (int)
Athlon 64 3200+ (from AMD, on SPEC): 1266 (float), 1180 (int)
That's about 50% faster for the Athlon, the G5 may have been the fastest personal computer when it was launched but it isn't any more.
Plenty of big iron boxes like Crays and IBM are obviously more powerful machines. The ad contains a blatently FALSE sataement.
Apple never claimed the G5 to be the most powerful computer, they claimed it to be the most powerful personal computer, which is a big difference.
It also seem that the only way they managed to squash the "Fastest PC" claim was by comparing it to workstations, not equivalent out-of-the-box PCs. Just like you did.
SofaMan -- Occasionally Battling Evil With His Mighty Powers Of Indolence.
No, I'm New Here
Claims of product's performance are always subject to verification by consumers...As I said above, BMW claims to offer the "Ultimate Driving Machine"...now I can attest that is not true. Now this might be subjective, but it is still my claim. I can show 0-60 specs to support my claim, however, should I be able to bar them from advertising in this manner? Obviously not.
This is hardly snake oil Apple is selling...I have no interest in debating the specific merit of Apple's claims other than to say that if you cannot see this as absurd(and not in a conspiratorial way mind you), then you are fooling yourself. Apple supplied independant performance data that supports their claim. The blustery sales pitch is just that, a sales pitch. If every product was held to such standards as is this case, nothing would be advertised...not that I mind that option necessarily.
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Complain.
Anyone think this one is misleading?
Intel Centrino Advert
So are a "personal computer" by definition a peice of hardware that can run either MacOS or Windozz on one of their incarnations?
If the criteria is that the machine can be the sole computer vehicle for the bulk of your paid work, as well as for casual webbrowsing, editing of snapshots of your cat, children etc. then a lot of UNIX workstations especially from SUN and SGI are in use as "personal computers" at home and in the office by a lot of people around the world. Themajority of these has been 64 bit since the start of the 90-ties, or the middle of the 90-ties if you postponed buying one until they got cheap ;-)
expecting the goverment to protect them from their own stupidity
we, the rest of the world, can only hope that one day the USA will implement a similar policy, protecting us from their stupidity
TIAEAE!
This was first posted elsewhere. My apologies if the ideas have already been expressed here:
What seems to be missing from this discussion is a single word at the heart of the issue: metaphor.
The expression "the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer" contains two living, breathing metaphors:fastest and powerful. It is the nature and charm and power of metaphors that they are deceptive, and that no enumeration of facts (time to complete certain tasks, or whatever) can prove them. (There is, after all, the fact/metaphor gap to consider.)
No, "fastest" is not a quantitative claim when applied to stationary objects. Neither is "powerful", "higher", or "stronger" when applied to computers. No, Apple did not present their metaphors as fact; no, such obvious evaluative metaphors are never "objective statements".
Not since a jury ruled against Papa John's for its slogan "better ingredients, better pizza", have so many people been duped by metaphor in advertising. Please, people, get over it! If you think that the G5 really is the fastest personal computer, you are deceived by language. If you think that it really isn't the fastest, you, too, are deceived by language. Use metaphors, by all means, but don't believe them!
And please: if you live in the U.K., call off the metaphor police!
Stupid benchmarks, and juvenile "my processor is better than yours" arguments aside
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
TIAEAE!
There needs to be limits. Ads should not be allowed to make false claims. Something like a computer blowing someone through a wall is fine, that's hyperbole, even comedy. However claiming that something is the fastest when it isn't (or if it cannot be proven to be) is false and ought not be allowed. You, after all, don't want people claiming a product can do something which it cannot.
There needs to be a line in what is allowed, otherwise advertisers will make totally false and misleading statements just to sell snake oil. The line is a little different in the UK and in much of Europe than it is in the US.
All i need now is a faster spelling checker
* Carthago Delenda Est *
Um No YOU look at the scores again. The ONLY system that beat the dual 2GHz G5 in photoshop was a dual Opteron workstation with 246 processors. That machine isn't even available with 246s from the manufacturer yet!
They had to pull a pre-release machine out to beat the G5 in Photoshop.
Not to mention that the dual Optie was more even without the hugely expensive 246 processors.
The other apps are a joke. Word? Come on. Premier hasn't been optimized for the Mac in years, FinalCut has seen to that. Even quake has been more optimised for the PC. The Mac patchs are afterthoughts to bring the Mac version up to the same feature set.
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
Apple has already been claiming that the G5 was the first 64 bit processor, forgetting about the Opteron, Alpha, etc. Now they're claiming it is the fastest processor. Apple has a great product in the G5, why do they need to lie about its capabilities when there are so many truthful claims they could make?
Naw, they're the coordinates for the Chinese Embassy.
A Good Intro to NetBS
By price, I would call the current macs "workstations" rather more than desktop PCs. I'm sitting at a dual Xeon box that cost less than a mid-range G5, and I wouldn't call that a "PC" any more than I would a G5.
I tend to agree with the reviewers.
Craig Ringer
Could this be the reason why two of my client's have ditched their $20k Sun workstations for Macs?
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
The committee also noted that the Apple advertisement is double plus ungood. In an unrelated note, UK Mac User smashed the committee's chanting jumbotron in an act of hammer tossing vandalism.
but, in America atleast, you are aloud to fund commercials: 1.) Saying the purchase of an SUV supports terrorism and 2.) Blatantly lying about apposing politicians before elections. Crazy.
Well, back in highschool, I used the beowulf cluster to do my research and stuff because it was the only computer in the library with no one on it (mostly because they didn't know how to work it, but also because they didn't have an account) does that count?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
wouldn't happen to glow blue, would it?
The problem is that in most countries outside the US, governmens make sure that citizens are protected from lies as much as possible. This is to keep some order in the area of marketing where claims tend to deteriorate into lies very quickly. Most of us are bombarded with ads every day and I, for one, would welcome governmental restrictions on what the marketing droids try to shove down my trhoat.
You mean I don't need Leptoprin? Such an nice looking and emphatic girl too
She had me convinced.
I am disilusioned.
Now you are going to tell me the Video Professors CD offer is not free either and than nice looking lady is lieing to.
What is the world comming to when you can't believe lies^h^h^h^h advertising.
If you don't like what I write don't be a CS and mod it down. Refute it.
Yea I can't spell. So what is your point?
...but it's part of the fact we prefer to think that we "think for ourtselves". This is obviously becomming less and less apparent as more people in the US allow themselves to be puppets.
Honestly, not to troll, but I see so much blind Americanism it's almost digusting. Perhaps if you looked and agreed with the current issues and official positions, sure. I can live with people having actual opinions, and those that do, even whom disagree with my wholeheartedly, are entitled. That's suposed to be one of America's base pirnciples: You can think what you want, and you're allowed to expose others to such opinions. What I have a problem with is those who regurgitate the evening news, as if what you saw was always 100% correct and unbiased.
America's problem is that we're being fed. Ads started the trend and now factual information is slowly but surely metamorphisising into that wich is more convincing than informng, between the opportunity for ratings (more ads sold for more $$$) and for control (same reasons). I, for one, do not welcome our new former Soviet overlords, this is not a troll.
Love or hate the current America, you can't disagree this hapens to some extent.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
"viewers complained that the advertising was misleading,"
I'm sure all of these customers who felt "misled" bought competitive hardware and performed their very own well thought-out, scientific experiments to determine that the ads were indeed misleading.
the personal computer with the most powerful processor.
maybe the vagueness of powerful (in terms of what?) seems to concern. another personal computer can have a better video card and they can say that it is no longer the most powerful.
though i dont live in uk, i may agree of the banning because the commercial may not have enough disclaimer like an * with a footnote saying based on the spec benchmark dated mm/dd/yyyy. this will remove their liability in the commercial i guess.
Live your life each day as if it was your last.
Well sure it should always be taken from whence it comes, but as far as marketing goes I believe history has shown that if you claim something way out impossible, like for example, a fruit juice company saying "Our tropical forests produce the sweetest oranges on earth, where they are hand picked for the best tasting juice around" is generally regarded ok. Now if they were to say something like "Our juice has the most vitamins [when compared to our competitors] ...." they will get crucified.
So at first glance Apple should be in the hotseat for making SERIOUS claims that just arent true, but, as you say - it's based on a benchmark, that can be tweaked to favor the benchmarkee (is that a word?) Which in my mind puts it in the "Our tropical forests..." category.
I can't believe all the fuss that this has created.
The ITC, the body that oversees all commercial UK television output, has strict rules enforcing what can be said in a commercial. Apple's one, made in the US under where regulations are not as strict, simply transgressed these rules and got banned. In fact I was suprised to see it air in the UK last week making those claims. It will probably appear later with some modifications. Advertisments get amended all the time for such transgressions.
The ITC regualations (and those of the preceeding bodies the IBA and ITA) are fairly complicated, with some products and services banned outright and others strictly regulated. These rules keep changing with the times - for example it was only in the last few years that comparisions with specific competitor's products were allowed. The complaints were probably put in by others working within the advertising industry.
There are other UK bodies controlling other forms of advertising - press, cinema, radio, billboards etc, also with their own individual rules and regulations.
Last year the fastest cheapest processor we could find for our numerical simulation work was an Intel Gateway 3GHz, which cost about $2500, and has been wildly successful in attracting users away from older Sun workstations, around which it runs rings and Linux.
This year, we will upgrade to a dual processor system, with an eye toward eventual clustering of larger numbers of them. In comparing dual Xeons with dual G5s, we find that the test numbers are a tossup (Macworld reports PCs are faster; while PCmag resports Macs are a bit faster, which they call "about even"). One thing that isn't much discussed is the big jump in bus speed for the G5, which approaches 1GHz, compared with a typical 400MHz for Intel systems. This should be a boon to I/O intensive jobs.
Surprisingly, the deciding factor may be price: we get bids of about $4k for a dual Xeon system that is equipped comparably with a dual G5 that bids at $3k. So if the top Macs aren't definitively faster, they are at least certifiably cheaper! Who knew?
But Apple would clearly prefer to be fastest rather than cheapest, and hence their advertising approach stresses speed for the money rather than money for the speed. One person's miles per gallon is another's liters per 100km...
This continuing competition is clearly a win-win situation for consumers. May it continue...
ThosEM
Yes, even honest data can be misunderstood, taken out of context, or abused.
Example misunderstanding: the comment that said that compiler optimizations are "cheating". Nope, compiler optimizations are allowed by design. The SPEC CPU benchmarks are specifically intended to test CPU, memory hierarchy (caches & main memory), and compilers. (Of course, compiler optimizations are expected to be generally useful, and not unfairly "target" a specific benchmark. That's a judgment call which SPEC has sometimes had to work hard to make.)
Now, one can argue about whether Apple's attempt to hold the compiler constant was a reasonable thing to do, given that the CPU2000 benchmarks are intended to test all three of cpu/memory/compiler. But they at least have told us what they did, and how they did it, and in my book that goes a long way toward supplying the ounce of honest data.
For those who suggest that improvements should be made to the SPEC benchmarks in one way or another, please be reminded that you can join SPEC (discounts for academic/non-profit memberships) and you can contribute to new benchmarks (and earn modest financial compensation if your benchmark is accepted.)
SPEC has a long history of welcoming technical contributions by technical people (but is less responsive to complaints - we know it's impossible to please everyone).
Disclaimers: I am not employed by Apple, nor do I own an Apple computer. I am employed by another company that is a member of SPEC. My opinions are my own and have not been approved or disapproved by my employer, by SPEC, or by Apple.
-john henning
This isn't a first for Apple in the UK. When they first used the PowerPC they advertised it as the first RISC based home computer. That might have been true in the US, but in the UK the ARM based Acorn Archimedes had already been out for a while, so they were forced to pull that ad.
And at least this one is probably justified, the advert is a bit misleading to new computer users (the "most powerful" machine). Its at least better than the ads that were banned after about 3 people complaining (In the UK the record for the most people complaining about an ad is under 800 I think).
Actually, I meant to be more critical of the ITC and their fascist supporters than of Slashdot readers. Look at what the ITC did:
After Apple made the statement "introducing the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer", and eight viewer complaints were lodged, the ITC referred the complaints to the BCC's IT expert. An IT expert! Did they even think of contacting a language expert? If they had, they might have gotten a response like,
"In its advertisement, Apple Computer used the metaphor 'fastest' to analogically compare its computer to objects traveling through space at a higher velocity than other objects. And they used the metaphor 'powerful' to analogically compare their computer to forces able to accelerate massive objects. The metaphors are living, the compact structure of the statement is itself a metaphorical feature, and so the statement is judged to be 100% devoid of any factual content or claim. Because it is metaphorical (obviously to some, not obviously to others), it is misleading, deceptive, and false (in its original sense - deceptive), as all metaphors are."
After receiving the (language!) expert's evaluation of Apple's claim, the ITC, if it had any sense at all, would issue a terse statement:
"We regulate statements of fact. We don't regulate metaphors."
Just imagine (if you can!) a world where metaphors are outlawed. Tony Blair could not claim that the war in Iraq was 'justified'. His critics could not claim it was 'wrong'. Shakespeare would be edited to have Romeo claiming that "Juliet is kinda like the sun!" And above all, we critics of metaphor-blindness could not have fun ridiculing people who are taken in by them.
It seems ever so possible to me now that computer experts, IT people, and Slashdot readers are the most easily duped people on the planet. Read these posts. You have people who actually believe that one computer can be "faster" than another. Others who believe that a given computer "is" or "isn't" a workstation or PC. Others who think Apple's claim is or isn't "true"!
Metaphors, all.
Fools, all.
There was a program about banned adverts on the other week (no G5 wasnt on it). They showed how the tabaco industry went from do-what-ever-you-want to pretty much having to say "dont smoke, but if you do you might try these cigarettes but remember dont smoke" to eventually being banned from advertising altogether. At the moment all cigarette packets have massive "SMOKING DAMAGES HEALTH" warnings in about 18pt bold. Personally i have no problem with this i dont see it as censorship i see it as saying fuck you to the big bad drug dealing companies which atleast makes me feel safe knowing that the tabaco companies dont ow3n the government unlike some *cough* not putting matches and lighters on banned items on planes list *cough*
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Here's my take on where the lines are drawn. Consider 4 kinds of statements:
:)
4 40 222
1. Verifiably true factual statements. (The G5 is 64 bit)
2. False or unverified factual statements. (The G5 outperforms its competition on all tasks.)
3. Noncomparative metaphors. (The G5 is a sweet and wonderful computer.)
4. Comparative metaphors. (The G5 is faster, more powerful, sexier, better, and superior to Windows PCs.)
The USA generally disallows only statements of kind 2 (factual falsehoods), whereas the UK also prohibits statements of kind 4 (comparative metaphors.) Notice that both the USA and the UK allow false and deceptive statements in advertising -- they are those cute, harmless, noninsulting metaphors (3).
I'm afraid I'm completely with the USA on this issue, though. It seems the UK is trading openness and educational opportunities for politeness and decorum.
It is interesting that the regime that outlawed Apple's comparative metaphor had no apparent awareness of its metaphorical nature. I assume that's because they grew up in a society that didn't allow comparative metaphors in advertising, and so deprived the language teachers an opportunity to discuss them in the schools.
For more on Apples' metaphors, do check out the thread "Don't literalize Metaphors!" It's easily the most informative and underated thread in SlashDot history.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=85357&cid=7
Okay, one of you Brits bought a new mac. The other 3 mac users would like to form a MUG.
Please, no burning G3s on my lawn.
Dear Anonymous Coward,
Thank you for your kind response regarding my post. As you can imagine, I receive so many positive responses regarding my posts, that I cannot possibly reply to them all. But once again, thank you for your kind remarks regarding my post.
Sincerely,
ErnstKompressor
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
Ok, so it takes 8 AMD folks to take down an ad of Apples. They have 8 folks complain and they ask one tech what he thinks?? Comeon..they could've atleast got 5 folks together and to get the numbers and see if Apple had a case or not.
Hell why didn't they even test the machine?
But it won't matter because Apple will just put up the same add in 2 months in the UK. Because Apple is slated to release the dual 2.5GHz at the end of Jan and the dual 3GHz by the end of Jun. Apple has 6 month cycle plan now in effect that means about every 6 months the processor goes up 500MHz.
Also there is now talks that IBM's new PPC 970's will run Linux and OSX.
Or it could just be jealousy. Microsoft's claim of increased security were unfounded in south africa. This is not the first time it has been busted for false advertising, it seems to be a habit.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.