Slashdot Mirror
Nigerian Scammers Claim Another Victim
A Florida newspaper ran a story yesterday about a local retiree who fell hard for a 419 scam. The story goes into depth on the methods used to play on the target's beliefs and gain his confidence - in this case, the target (who lost $320,000) is still having a hard time accepting that they were thieves. Truly remarkable.
It's a voluntary tax on stupidity.
So, at what point will it become more profitable to run How to Run a 419 Scam seminars than it will be to actually run a 419 scam? Okay judging by the fact that people still get taken in, quite a while, but I can see the infomercials now...
This is just simply greed run amuck. Not by the scammer - but by the idiot who fell for it.
I can't feel sorry for this guy in the slightest. This guy was a whole lot of stupid. Just insane to fall for something like that and need to spend $320K to get it.
There is a certain personaility type that has to fall for this no matter where it was from. It's not the internet that has caused this, it's just helped people find more idiots to suck in.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
This site.... that should convince him he was scammed...
If it sounds to good to be true it most probably is. period.
I dont know who came up with that line but it holds true time and again.
Greed. Greed. Greed. Such a heartwarming story for the season. He got what he deserved.
"His trip to financial ruin began Feb. 2, 2002."
Mr. Sessions, meet P.T. Barnum. Mr. Barnum, please smack Mr. Sessions as hard as you can upside the head.
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
I can see why he won't admit to having been scammed, and keeps denying that those people were scammers.
At that age and point in my life, if I were to admit that I were completely scammed out of everything I had worked for my entire life because of a scam that has been around for decades, it would probably make me a broken man.
How long can someone that age live with a broken heart?
"...to this day he does not think he was scammed. He ignored police warnings that the deal was bogus and instead blames his losses on corrupt foreign governments."
I feel bad when I hear about these stories, but there's always a bit of "if you can't use even the most basic of common sense, perhaps you had it coming" mentality. Wrong, I know (especially for an elderly man) but come on... my grandmother is more careful with her money and she's dead!
Fact: An offer too good to be true, usually is.
Hate me!
This was on fark yesterday. What cracks me up is that they guy doesn't even think he was scammed. He blames governments for holding the money, and he considers the criminals his friends. Actually, never mind, that doesn't crack me up. It makes me sad.
We have to look at the signs. First, we have the obvious there is no free lunch and if it looks too good to be true, it probably is
Next, we find this line:
He ignored police warnings that the deal was bogus and instead blames his losses on corrupt foreign governments
OK, so even the police told him that this would go bad, he continued to dump his money. So now we have "too good to be true" coupled with warnings from the law that he was going to get fleeced
The actual premise of the transaction doesn't even sound legal. A banker needs to move money that isn't his by using an offshore account?
The account had been dormant for years -- ever since the businessman and his family died in a plane crash, the e-mail read. The "banker" needed help moving the money. Otherwise, the government would confiscate it.
That's where Sessions fit in.
And finally the trump:
Still, Sessions was so mesmerized by the well-spoken West Africans that to this day he does not think he was scammed. "I consider them my friends," he says. "They're not criminals."
If this guy had more money and they asked for it, he would give it up. It goes beyond stupid and trusting to the point of insanity. Yes, he's old, but when you've been warned by police and god knows how many others, lost all the cash you have,and face losing your house then you should know you've been robbed.
This guy has more in common with a gambling addict than a victim. He's still not giving up. I really wouldn't be surprised if he would have given to TV preachers or others who might have fleeced him had the nigerian scammers not caught him first.
My take is on this is more than likely he knows he was scammed. He would rather believe a lie he knows is a lie than accept the fact he was swindled for all he's worth.
It's easier to blame "corrupt foriegn governments" than it is to blame yourself for being taken in by it. I think the poor guy is just too embarrassed to admit he was swindled.
But did anyone else get the impression off this article like they were really poking fun of him instead of covering a real piece of news. Kinda like, "Look at this stupid old guy, haha"
You know what else is a little odd:
Jim Stratton can be reached at jstratton@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5379.
That just screams, "please send donations." Makes you stop and think, who's scamming who..
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
"I sent the scammers $320,000 and all I got was this lousy carved wooden elephant and antelope"
his drivers license--no more Information Super Highway for you!
Steal from the rich, give to the poor...
In any case, the guy here had enough to get by but wanted more. That's greed, and he certainly paid the price.
What I want to know is how someone this stupid could get so much "cash" to throw around in the first place.
i helped him out and i made a bundle! with the money, i bought a great house with a fantastic mortgage. then i married a beautiful russian bride, and i pleasure her with my surgically enlarged, viagra driven member. During sex, I take photos and print up hundreds of copies, but hey no problem - I have an excellent source of toner....
Get the victim hooked, keep bleeding money out of him until he's ruined, and all along he'll insist that he's not being robbed.
Sad. Very sad.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"I think the Lord uses people to do his work," Sessions said. "With that money, we'd be comfortable, and we could do some good things."
This statement is another way to pc package the concept of greed. If only God would let me win the loto I promise I will use it to do the Lords work - after of course making myself "comfortable".
His own stupidity AND HIS OWN GREED lead to this mess. Stop playing these losers as victims. It insults us all.
Everything to do with stupidity
I once responded to one of these Nigerian scammer mails, thinking it would be a little amusing to string them a long for a while with funny responses. (Hardly an original idea, I know. There's more than one example of this on the web.) So I made up a name, a persona and everything. I emailed him and started talking percentages and trying to broker "myself" a better deal and teasing them about when I might be able to fly to wherever to do their business deal.
Well, I eventually got wrapped up in a big project at work and didn't have enough time or energy to continue the charade so I just stopped replying.
SIX MONTHS LATER, they still occasionally email me to try and get out deal going because they "still need my help".
Tenacious.
</boringstory>
How does someone that stupid have $320,000?
I see a Ormond Beach 419 scam on the horizon. Get any emails from a guy in Ormond Beach telling you how to get rich, ditch 'em!
This is exactly why SPAM is thriving and so widespread. Someone, somewhere will fall for anything, no matter how propostrous. A million may complain about SPAM, but it only takes one to buy into the scam. I mean, this one he should have seen a mile away and yet he lost a ton of money. Sad.
...I lived through the dot-com stock bubble.
You don't have to be old and retired to be seduced by people promising you 500% returns on $50,000 investments. Twenty-somethings will fall for it if you use enough marketspeak.
I feel no pity for this guy. It is absolutely ridiculous that people with money to throw around foolishly try to get so much more. This boils down to greed.
.deviatefromtheabsolute.
as much as he was greedy - as many have said. I think the greed made him act in a stupid manner. But if you sat down with the guy - unaware of all this- you would probably think he was pretty normal.
I could be wrong about that- but the point you bring up makes me think he is probably somebody of decent intelligence, able to have accumulated some nice things in his life that enabled him to come up with all this cash.
I read about this yesterday and I think the story doesn't have a ton of value beyond it being a freak show type thing. The size of his losses and his inability to recognize what happened are like a traffic wreck- you can't help but look and say 'WOW'.
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
Unbelievable as it may be that anybody would go to the lengths Sessions did -- buying the scammers cell phones and other things, travelling halfway across the world, etc -- the most unbelievable thing is that he somehow managed not to get the word that this is a fraud. As the article says, almost everyone with an in-box has received these messages. I would think almost everyone who surfs the web would also have run across the phrase "Nigerian Spam Scam" and get a clue.
Word.
...but the only sad thing to come out of this story is that it was an old geezer who had a chance to breed and raise his retard children before Darwin got to him. Lets hope next time it's soemone younger that gets nailed; before they have a chance to proliferate their fouled DNA.
Compliment of the day , i am Mr.GERALD EGEDE the campaign chairman for Nigerian Presidents re-election bid for the second term .The outfit is acronamed [V.O.A
ie; VOTE OBASANJO ATIKU]for 2003 or [OBASANJO/ATIKU FOR
PRESIDENT 2003].This organization was saddled with the
resonsibility of massive campaigning and lobbying which
necessitated the huge amount of fund approved for the
organization programmes.
After the whole election which ended on the third of
may, the Presidents party,[P.D.P...PEOPLES DEMOCRATIC
PARTY]won absolute majority both in the federal and
state level.Now after the electioneering campaign
expenses, we discovered that we have the sum of Twelve
million dollars[USD$12,000 000.00]left , so myself and
two senior officers f the organization agreed to
solicit for your assistance in helping us to secure a
foreign bank account as a matter of urgency where can
get this fund remmitted .
The unfortunate thing is that hence we are civil
servants under the presidency, we are barred from
operating a foreign account by the Nigerian
constitution Act called the code of conduct for
government personells/officials.
Be rest assured that this transaction is 100% risk-free
for it is assumed within the presidency that the whole
fund was expended in the electioneering campaign since
the President and his vice won overwhelmingly in the
election .Every workable modality for the smooth
remmittance of this fund into your account has been
worked out.
Send across to me ,your personal hone and fax numbers
for easy communication .The bank account information
where you would want this fund remmitted to my official
email;gerryegede@presidency.com,idrisbello22@zwall et.com.You can equally send
the required information to my direct fax line
234-1-7591746,mobile 234-80-33247458.Please endeavor to
keep it a top secret more importantly lookout for any
investment for us in your country where the burden of
taxation will not take a high toll on the fund.Coming
to the sharing of the fund , we will discuss it after
the fund has been remmitted int your account and it
will be in the ratio that will foster our relationship
and equally be of mutual benefits to both parties and I
will personally come over to your country for the
sharing.
What we hold in mind is we are to get 75% while you and
your partner if any gets 25%of the total sum but it is
still open for dialogue and discussion . I have the
convinction that you have the maturity which entails
trusth, honesty and sincerity to handle a transaction
of such magnitude , based on this, i am not going to
look for another person until i hear from you.
Remain blessed while i wish you success in all of your
endeavor.I am
Yours truly ,
MR. GERALD EGEDE
As the article says, most of that money is in new debt. He'll never be able to pay it back, so it will become the loss of the finance companies. They will raise the interest rates we have to pay in order to recoup that money.
And of course, since the guy will lose his home and has no money, he'll have to go on welfare to get his rent and food money. He won't be able to pay for his health care co-payments any longer, so he'll bail on those bills, making his doctors and hospitals raise their rates for paying customers and insurance companies.
Yes, he was stupid, his life will be crap, but we are the ones that have to pay for his stupidity!
Makes you stop and think -- who's trolling who?
- He is 73
- He and his partially disabled wife needed the money
- He comes from a simpler time, a different era
Please don't be harsh on him.What if, 50 years from now, there's a scam going around , today, you won't in your wildest imagination consider possible? Would you fall for it? It is possible some of you would.
Please don't deride this old man, but feel sorry for him. He's ruined, with a disabled wife to take care of.
If anything, us young folks also have to share some of the blame in not spreading the message clearly that such things are scams.
Ah, Jim Stratton is the article's author.
Old retired person probably living in Palm Beach county. No wonder.
Have your parents ever been in that situation? Would you be sitting at your computer calling them stupid and greedy just the same? Please remember that these are real people behind the names.
-Rob
Marriage doesn't have to suck!
If you read a news story about people too dumb to be real...it's probably true!
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I have these great proposals to show him...
how long until
and to make matters worse.....
he is a DEMOCRAT!!!!!!
voted democrat party line from day one.
And I'm not referring to the Nigerians.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
you really can fool some of the people ALL of the time.
If you think you are too smart to be conned out of your money, you're wrong.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Report Economic Crime On Line is an international effort to stop this sort of thing. It is true that greed causes the scams to flourish. The people who's wallets are emptied are someone's mom, dad, aunt, or uncle. Here is a commercial in Windows Media Format. and a text version
It's not all black and white. There are even some companies in the US that have a sort of queezy feel to them in regards to their offers. Pre-Paid Legal has an iffy feel to it (see News on Pre-Paid Legal. It's a MLM company which sells
That was a grey-area example, But offers which promise to make you rich while requiring no work from you are almost invariably scams. There's an easy way to detect a scam: listen to your gut. If something doesn't feel right, you shouldn't go with it.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
or at least he thought he did.... helping a crooked banker transfer money that wasn't his in violation of another nations banking laws.
A good scam often involves making the sucker think that they are one of the insiders pulling something off on someone else.
How ironic that this sucker was also a "Christian" and what firmly set the hook in his mouth was an appeal for divine aid in the proposed illegal activity.
its stuff like this that makes me scared of geting old. You abandon reason when you get old? I understand that he thinks differenly and may be more trusting, came from a simple era, etc, but still, thats no reason not to have common sense.
Plenty in common there:
Greed.
True believers.
Those that get stuck with the debt.
Nobody thinks they were scammed. The leaders were just good honest men that were themselves misled. When all other justifications fail, try the old "God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform."
Don't be so quick to point the finger at the imbecile in the story -- look in the mirror first.
Fight control. Question authority. Rebel. Be free.
In fact victims of this scam probably deserve less pity (the only reason for coming out in public that you were duped) than most other. For a person to bite on a Nigerian scam they must be unusually greedy. Many other scams take advantage of altruism. It is those that deserve some pity. Be not admitting to being scammed (yea right like he doesn't know when an article is written about him being scammed) the man seems to want to come off innocent and naive probably to gain pity and a new income. But this is just him trying to scam the altruistic masses of the internet. This man just reaped what he sowed.
Open Source Sushi
surfing all day pays off.
(Another hour and I can leave this empty building)
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
I'm not quick to blame the victim in this case.
My mother is 88 years old. You would not believe some of the scams that target the elderly. The ones I've seen are, surprisingly enough, quite legal. For example, selling reports on lotteries you may have won or soliciting for charities that keep practically all the money for themselves.
Some of the elderly do have difficulty distinguishing between reality and fantasy. Most do not. For those who do it's partly it's because of problems that happen to people who grow quite old -- and sometimes it's due to having grown up and aged in an era in which normal people were not targeted by frauds.
If the man in this story was, say 43 or 53, I'd be much harsher. But, by 73, he could be suffering from some problems that limit his ability to understand reality.
What should be done? Damned if I know for sure. But I think younger relatives should keep a close eye on their elders. That way you can limit the damage done to Mom or Granddad by this kind of scum.
"Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- B. Franklin
and, as has been pointed out many times - he agreed to help the scammers out in a scheme that looked illegal anyway. So no, I feel no sympathy, no pity. His greed led him to ruin. If more people felt the consequences of their actions, the world would be a better place.
This guy is just amazing, he still thinks it's not a scam. I can't help but wonder if the article is being a bit fast & loose with the facts. I mean how dumb can the guy be?
Not all human life is precious. Neither the sucker's or the crook's. This guy was a naive moron.
from the article
Mr.Sessions said "I think the Lord uses people to do his work,"
he forgot the devil does as well.
Why am I posting this here? Well, the other day, someone else that Learning Strategies failed to pay sent me the following. This came from the FBI:
It is not always clear that one is being scammed. In my case, I had been paid a nominal amount for classes I taught as an independant contractor ($435) before they offered me fulltime work. Learning Strategies owes me $4375. But, who knows if I will ever see it.If anyone has any sugestions on how to get the ball really moving on this I would greatly appreciate it. As would all of the other people who were promised salaries that never got them.
Thank you.
This guy is amazingly stupid, I'm suprised that he's still alive and not rotting in the african wilderness by now.
Jonah Hex
Horror & SciFi Erotic Nudes
It's knowing that people like this are citizens of the USA and that the USA is a democracy that makes me think that maybe, just maybe, the USA shouldn't be trying so hard to put itself in charge of the affairs of the rest of the world.
"Please don't deride this old man, but feel sorry for him. He's ruined, with a disabled wife to take care of."
He's been ruined by his own greed and stupidity, and was apparently quite happy to steal money from the bank account of a dead man. Why should I have any sympathy whatsoever for someone like that?
"What if, 50 years from now, there's a scam going around , today, you won't in your wildest imagination consider possible?"
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If you remember that, you'll never fall for one of these scams. To do so you need to be either crooked or stupid or both.
First of all, he's 73. Think how much the world has changed in his lifetime.
Secondly, he may have made the first payment out of greed, but if you read the article, what comes out is how much he trusted the scammers involved. I'd bet that by the end his primary motivation was 1) not to let down his "business partners" and 2) he was already in so far, he didn't feel he could turn back.
Lastly, if you still can't muster any sympathy for him, try feeling sorry for his partially-disabled wife.
He borrowed hundreds of thousands of dollars, gave it to some one in a foreign country, and now he may go bankrupt.
.sig
Why do I feel like the real idiots in this story were the people willing to lend him the money?
-- this is not a
"There's a sucker born every minute."
Spam relies on the idiot factor. Ask the same stupid question a few million times, you're going to get a few stupid answers.
As long as there is one ignorant/plain stupid person managing to survive this world, there are ten people waiting in a queue to exploit them and take their money.
Final obligatory quote: A fool and his money are soon parted.
I ran a benchmark on my quantum computer, now I can't find it anywhere!
Check out some table-turning at 419 Eater.
Why do you assume they are "dirt poor third worlders"? They could be, for all you know, the local gangsters who exploit the locals and corrupt the government. They could be far wealthier than their target.
Don't sterotype all American's as "rich" (this guy sounded like your average retiree) or all third worlders as innocent poor lambs.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
--
Power to the Peaceful
While your at it, giving the gift of Snopes can't hurt either.
Today is a gift. Save the receipt.
Now I know that relatively few people fall for these scams, but it does seem as if there is an inexhaustible supply of people willing to believe the con. What is the likelihood that people like Rupert Sessions regularly vote? Should we be trusting him, or anyone else who easily succumbs to an obvious scam and then blinds himself to reality, to operate our government?
Oh wait. I'm a US citizen... never mind...
... honestly, the Nigerians earned every penny. More power to them.
C//
Has anybody thought about starting a project to track down these scammers with aggressive geek wizard techniques? Collecting a database of email headers strikes me as a good starting place, but I have no idea what would come next. Assuming you had unlimited computer power and a legion of volunteers willing to go out on a limb in terms of hacking/cracking, how would you go about identifying Nigerian Spam Scammers?
I'm not feeling sorry for this guy.
If he was robbed or lost the money on a fraudulent bank or something like that them he would be a victim but he was asked to help on an *ilegal* transaction and was his greed what moved him on.
For me, he is accesory for this crime, not a victim.
Scientia est Potentia
Replace the Nigerian scammers with Christian pastors and the police as scientists and you have another perfect story.
So before you laugh at him, please do reflect on yourselves...
eTrade SUCKS
But it is a funny site. I tried my hand at corresponding with the scammers for a while but it took way too much time. I thought these scams would die out, but maybe I should jump back into the fray.
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
michael --
Please stop falling for the Nigerian Spam posting...it's an old slashdot post that's time is over...
I don't want a pickle; I just want a Motor-Cycle! A four foot cop arrived with a five foot gun!
Of course, that's just my opinion and I'm sure a lot of people have good, positive experiences with the studen loan people...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
It said most of the 320k was new debt. There's no chance he can pay that debt back, as he can't even afford to pay current living expenses.
That means he'll default on loans and credit card debt, which means creditors will have yet another reason to fleece good customers to make up for the bad ones.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
"He is 73"
So he had 73 years of life experience for him to know better.
"He and his partially disabled wife needed the money"
He had no problem burying his wife and himself in debt and putting everything they had in hock for the sake of a scheme that would have made Ralph Kramden (The Honeymooners) blush.
"He comes from a simpler time, a different era"
Bah, I hate that "Golden Age" bullshit. Life wasn't simpler and people act exactly the same as they always have. Some people are liars and cheats, some are greedy fools; time hasn't changed this. People even had fewer people watching out for them (bank insurance, auto insurance, consumer fraud protection, etc) than they do today.
He grew up with Stalin, McCarthy, Hitler, the Depression, countless scams and scandals, and on and on. He wasn't from some innocent time.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
If anything, us young folks also have to share some of the blame in not spreading the message clearly that such things are scams.
The message was shared with him, the POLICE told him it was a scam, he chose to ignore them.
title says it all. I especially like that he was a "electronics specialist". Christ you'd think he'd know better..
People (including myself) have tried engaging the scammers in conversation to have some fun and possibly steer them down a dead end. However, these folks have far more time to devote than we do at creating these bogus stories.
I've also heard of people replying and attaching image files so that they're mailbox quota gets used up. Most of the scammers are using free email services so it doesn't take much to fill their quota. I;ve done this a few times, choosing suitably bizarre images (nothing pornographic, just bizarre).
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
Since he's 73, he probably experienced the late end of the Great Depression, and thus, he should know that hard work is the way to success, or at least survival.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Notice that the guy assumes he can find people so stupid he can get away with calling himself Hans Berger in the text and David Beck at the end.
I'd like to talk to the folks who kept lending him money. The people who gave him an extra mortgage even though he had accumulated (according to the article) 16 credit cards, all of them maxed out. If he got the mortgage first then the credit card companies didn't care about their chances of getting paid back either.
Seems like the lending rules in the US have gotten WAY too loose.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
troll and lives under a bridge eating billygoats, the guy responding to it is probably a sucker.
Textbook excecution. And a brilliant example of why there should be a Troll +1 modderation. Antis0c, you, sir, are a magnificent bastard, and I salute you! You deserve a cookie!
If this guy had given all his money to a church, it wouldn't be in the news.
"Skill shows through where genius wears thin." -Wittgenstein || Religion: uniting aviation and architecture.
Sounds like you speak from experience here.
You've simply encountered the world of network marketing, where nearly everyone things they can get rich by paying for entry.
The unfortunate reality is that network marketing (or MLM - multi-level marketing) requires as much or more work to be successful as traditional jobs do. They payoff is bigger, but the MLM industry is full of lame people you'd never want to associate with.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Or it's a tax on naivete`
In this particular elderly gentlemans' case, it is probably a combination of that, and denial. It ain't just a river in egypt, folks, and it's a powerful ego defense when you've lost it all due to your own trust, and can't face the reality of your victimhood.
Think that kind of denial can't be real? How hard do you think it is for that old fellow to look himself in the mirror and realize that his own foolishness cost he and his disabled wife their life savings and future?
Truly a sad tale.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Remember Florida, land of the "chad"?
Or Florida, land where they lose children of the state?
It's really a shame to waste all that lovely climate on the residents of Florida.
.sigs are for post^Hers.
...it's just that stupidity tends to be its own punishment.
"Skill shows through where genius wears thin." -Wittgenstein || Religion: uniting aviation and architecture.
Remeber when you was a kid and you didn't know jack ? You probably now are an "adult" and think you know how to avoid being scammed ; you most definitely are a youngster with little experience if you considered that poor dude as "guilty of being stupid".
He's ignorant and old, everybody is born ignorant and it's no one fault , also when you'll become older you'll see your brain will not work as well as it does now. The guilty party is _always_ the scammer, not the scammed. Fraudsters and scammers are _parasites_ , not because they don't work (injuried people can't work, yet they're not parasites)but because they only leech your money.
Consider that: look again at your 401K, at the conditions of your bank account/credit card : do you think you know all the laws surrounding such everyday tools ? You don't. Do you think you understood all the implications of the contracts you signed ? You don't, unless you're an up-to-date lawyer.
Scams should be always exposed, and recorded, and the structure of scams and how they work should be taught at every occasion, maybe even in schools.
Do not invest in things you don't understand completely ; don't think you know everything.
...from some other scammers demanding $699.
the pitch was pretty much the same.
"Today, everyone with an in-box has seen the pitch: A West African lawyer, banker or dignitary wants to get a huge stash of money out of the country. If the victim helps, he'll be cut in."
the whole point of the 419s is the way they offer to rip off the current gvt of a country and smuggle cash out - usually impoverished economies.this guy thought his 'friends' werent 'criminals' when they offered him a chance to rip off a country? be real. telling everyone he intended to 'do good' with it - well, that makes it ok, does it? and ok, hes in his 70s. so is my dad - and boy, would he tell this guy he'd been a greedy sod. $320,000 - that would have kept him comfy. ignoring the police - thats just bloody minded. sorry, but my sympathy gland doesnt ignore his greed because of his age. aint no money for nuthin, peeps.
Nothing - well thats something.
He took out a second mortgage on his home in Florida. Since they can't take away his house in bankruptcy there, it's possible he'll ultimately turn a net profit on this scam.
When all those banks are writing off that debt who do you think they'll turn to recover the loss? People who pay their fucking bills? Do YOU pay YOUR bills? I think I'm begining to get an idea about who the real suckers are here.
Nigeria should be nuked on principle, and he should be incinerated and his ashes used in the vitrification of nuclear waste generated by the nuking of Nigeria.
Aha ha...wait, it's not fucking funny.
Is that all? I've got a friend who lost three times that on the "dot bomb" crash. Now that was a real scam. A few key scammers with the investment companies skimming off the top. The Nigerians have nothing on Wall Street.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
Is if this actually was true, and there was a rich, confused, Nigerian out there wondering why 100,000,000 English speakers so far have refused his request to make them rich. It's just begging to be made into a wacky sitcom.
Everything will be taken away from you.
fer crissakes ....
And in the words of despair.com, paraphrased, you also miss 99% of the shots you do take.
All complete rumor of course, but much more insidious than the Nigerians, if it were true.
Another common one up north involved selling the elderly people upgrades on their house that they really didn't need. Again, much easier to fall for than anything the Nigerians put forth.
A common theme here is the elderly, and can you blame the old folks? Society as a whole seems to just rather they die when they're supposed to and stop clogging up the works for everyone else. Why is social security and medicare on the ropes? Because the government bets that all those people are going to die and they're stubbornly not doing so. How many people have cursed being forced into going to see grandma over the holidays because she tells the same boring story over and over again? Grandma's going to have the last laugh, though, and live to be 130.
Maybe if we made our elderly relatives more part of our lives and gave them new memories to talk about, they'd be less boring, more lively, more productive to society and less likely to open up to anyone who will talk to them because they're so starved for human contact that they can't tell a friend from someone who means them harm. Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass here. Most of my elderly relatives died when they were supposed to like model citizens.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
There is an elderly lady in my community who has been giving money to the Nigerians for years. She is so far gone that she gets vehemently angry when people tell her that she is being scammed (this includes a personal visit from the FBI) She has lost almost everything she owns and she still keeps giving in the hopes that "God will sort everything out." There comes a point when accepting the truth is more humiliating than losing everything you own... which is a pretty harsh bit of reality for this lady. Her car has broken down and she has no way to fix it.. She now walks everywhere in the dead of winter. Before you bash her with "she deserved it" remarks.. try not to judge her to harshly because in her heart she was just trying to help people.
Um, first off.
"I will have a million dollars but I need you to give me 10000$ so I can process some forms."
People who don't see problems with this probably buy from spammers. They deserve each other [note I'm not saying the scammer is right. They should die at the hands of a hungry tiger too].
I mean if it's 100% sure that I will get a million dollars I'll get a loan at 30% or whatever and pay it off before too much interest accumulates [e.g. do it quick even with a penalty it can't be that much].
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
How many of you guys sitting there feeling smug about your healthy cynicism actually believed this article absolutely, without checking a single fact, simply because it told you what you wanted to hear?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
1991, eh?
that was 12 years ago.
He is 73 years old.
How you equate that to "nearly the same" is beyond reason.
The internet DID have something to do with it, as he received it over the internet.
He was greedy... yay. So are you, so is everyone else. Maybe not in this situation, but it's concievable that when you are 70, there will be some scam going on you will not recognize as one, even if it's obvious to those who are 50 years younger than you.
Indeed. Given the details of the story, they have a fairly elaborate set-up going, with at least some access to large houses, and a number of people who can at least pose as, and probably are armed guards.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
This guy must have had sucker written on his
face. Good grief! Either that, or he was
extremely greedy
is that people aren't encouraged to use critical thinking skills. As children, asking why too many times or spotting inconsistencies in explainations is often frowned upon. As adults, questioning your employer is an example of not "being a team player," while questioning your government is "unpatriotic." At any time, questioning an organized religion is usually branded "heretical."
Trust is a good thing. Common sense is good too, but not encouraged as much. Just imagine a world where everyone had plenty of the latter.
... he probably believed the administration when they told him there were WMD in Iraq :)
A house is an asset. All things being equal, it will appreciate over time, and unlike an apartment, your money isn't just being dumped into someone else's pocket.
I'm currently in more debt than I've ever been. I have $100,000 outstanding on a house I got. Before this, I'd never been in debt more than $1000. However, that doesn't mean I'm hurting in a bad way, on the contrary, my mortgage payments are LESS than my rent was, I have one more roomate so I'm paying even less, and now only 5% of what I pay goes to someone else, instead of all of it when I lived in an apartment.
If you'd like to see a little justice against these scammers, you must check out:
http://www.419fun.com/phillipepage1.htm
Warning: it's crap-your-pants funny
- H
come to mind.
"You can't cheat an honest man" and "It's a miracle a fool and his money ever got together in the first place."
"I planned within my means and got a fixed rate mortgage, so where's MY bailout?" -cafepress
Considering that these are the same people who can't figure out how to properly use a punch-card ballot, is it at all surprising that they'd get taken for a ride by Nigerian scammers?
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
"third worlders"?
wow.. that's a very nice word to use..
not only is puts millions being like 2nd-class people, but also it generalise several countries as being the same thing.
I can sympathize with this guy. I fell for a scam too that promised to let me retire in comfort. I don't know how they got my name either. I'm still paying for it today and I'm sure the rest of my life. I'm having 7.5% deducted from every paycheck because of it. Just watch out for these scammers, this group calls themselves "Social Security". I don't know if they're from Nigeria or not though.
his organs could be sold to cover the debt?
Of course the brain would not be suitable for transplant.
I see that almost all the responders here are much too smart to be ever be scammed. Scammers know that such smarties should be avoided at all costs. Yeah, right.
The very first step in any scam, before the scammer even makes contact, is the belief by the sucker that he is somehow too (smart, good, honest, knowledgeable-about-people, or whatever) to be taken. Have you ever paid too much or been paid too little, and made excuses for how it 'wasn't my fault' or 'actually, the deal was not bad' or any of a hundred other rationalizations?
So remember, O wise ones--people with your qualifications have been shown to be born only once each sixty seconds.
One of my friends is currently screwing around with these morons.
Heheheh.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
If the guy was retarded or something, that would be different.
Even now, even after the cops showed him the "black money" scam was SEVENTY YEARS OLD (he's only 72 years old), he STILL cannot accept the facts.
I might make a mistake by investing in Enron. But I would NOT mortgage the house, get more credit cards and run up massive debt to buy more Enron stock once I heard that Enron was having financial problems.
That is the difference between that guy and myself.
He could only see the money he was being offered. His greed blinded him. That isn't heartbreaking.
This man has an amazing sense of humor!
Couldn't the Secret Service (FBI... whatever) halt wire large wire transfers over say $10,000k to African bank accounts? Maybe they already are. Canadian and American banks are already doing this to domestic transfers to make sure its not "drug money". I would think large overseas transfers would undergo the same scrutiny.
Maybe it wouldn't have worked in this case. Assuming the scammers are all rotating around using the same bank account numbers, I would hope all wire transfers to those accounts could be stopped. It might save a few people from getting scammed. It might also save a few retiree pensions. Look at it this way - he could have spent the money in the U.S. and now its all in some criminal's pocket in Africa.
Just because he's 73 and has "all that life experience" doesn't mean that he is still able to make clear descisions. Mental and cognitive capabilities decline with age.
The guy was an electronics specialist with over 300K in retirement savings. He's obviously a pretty smart guy and was able to save up a considerable amount.
Maybe it is deteriorating mental faculties.
But his wife couldn't stop him? Does she have the same problem?
Do they have children? Couldn't the children stop him?
Friends? Do they have any friends? Are they all affected with the same deterioration?
Even after he is shown the "black money" scam is fake, he STILL believes that they were legit.
I notice they don't talk to his wife about it.
Accidents happen and can be very tragic. I have empathy for victims.
This was pure greed from someone who STILL cannot accept that he was wrong. Even after he is shown the evidence and examples of other people who were taken with the same scams.
That reminds me of a question. Might make an interesting Slashdot poll. Suppose you've won a free drawing. You have your choice of the following prizes, each of which has an expected value of $1. Which do you take?
cause once the wrong (or right, depending upon what angle your looking from) people read this it will just further confirm how many stupid, gullible people there are to be had out there.
I don't feel sorry for this guy at all. I've seen gamblers in denial that blame any and everything else for the consequences of their actions. He is no different. They refuse to believe that it was a mistake and it's always something or someone else's fault. How many times have you seen a guy losing his shirt at the blackjack table, and the whole time blaming it on the actions of the anchor?! They take the risks and when things go bad they get to the point where they only hope they can just win their money back...which probably explains why he kept giving the scammers more. I believe that deep down this guy knows he's been taken but he's still holding on to the slightest possibility that the money will come through. The other alternative is to admit he's been scammed because of his greed and to face the shame and embarrasment of it all.
The worst part for everyone else is that this is more fuel for the fire. I imagine we can all expect more scam spam in the future now. *sigh*
-Pat
I'm sure the fellow in Africa is thanking god for this guy.
This reminds me of the Joke about a man stranded on a roof during a flood and he keeps turning down offers to rescue him from the roof by a boat, canoe and helicopter, insisting that the lord will see him through. When he dies and meets god he says god why didn't you save me? The lord replies I sent a boat, a canoe, and a helicopter what was your problem ?
"cognitive dissonance"
Remove your pants before reading http://www.419fun.com/phillipepage1.htm . You have been warned.
and i respect the 419er's business model infinitely more.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Someone else needs to make a book called Scams for Dummies, which identifies all the scams.
* wimpy people deserve to be beaten up
* ugly people deserve to be ridiculed
* promiscuous people deserve to be raped
ad infinitum. What a lovely world you're living in!
We're all headed there to some degree.
Ever wonder why old folks are particular targets and frequent victims of scams? It's not like all of sudden sixty years ago or so people started getting smart. As our brains and bodies age, our cognitive abilities change.
If you expect to live into your eighties or even nineties, you can expect that your mind won't be 100% of what it used to be. Maybe in some ways it'll work better, but you may also find yourself on the wrong end of a scam yourself.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
From the outtakes of Austin Powers 3, to the tune of "Old McDonald Had A Farm"
"F.R.I.C.K.I.N
I.D.I.O.T!
With a frick frick here
a frick frich there
here a frick, there a frick
everywhere a frick frick
Albert Gore had a network
filled with...frick, in idioooooots..."
I'm amazing. You aren't. SUCK IT
Unfortunately, it's not "evolution in action", since the man and his wife are well beyond child-bearing.
Some very respectable people, and one friend of mine suggested I think about becoming an associate. But it's a lot of money to put in (you buy the associateship and then all the advertising materials) and the statistics presented are fluffed (e.g., they say that they have an 85% retention rate of customers, but that's only for one year...after one year, it drops to less than 30%). In short, the whole thing just seems like a headache and a mess.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
My first post to the front page of Slashdot, I used a unique email address. Within several hours, the first spam arrived at that address. It was a Nigerian scam. I verified its origin with a whois. Other spam didn't arrive until days later. Boy those guys are fast.
It's both saddening and humorous to hear of people falling for those scams. From reading the article it sounds like he'd still give them more money if he had it. "Give me a few hundred thousand and then I'll give you 20 million. Just trust me, old buddy, old pal. I'm upset to hear you still consider me a stranger, after all this time. Have a little faith."
http://www.unitrustfin.net/
I have reported it to the cops, but they don't seem to care.
So what? Pay the balance monthly. If you got over your head and cannot pay the balance, you get what you deserve.
Me? I don't even know the interest rate is on my credit card. It could be one million percent for all I care.
You are missing some important points here.
First you can easily affort the few dollars out of you payroll each week for the chance of winning the first price. The lottery is not out to ruin you.
If you loose, you are not really any worse off than if you hadn't played at all, but if you win you are significantly better off than you were.
If you don't play, your chance of winning is infinitely smaller. (They are nil.)
Nobody is scamming you in a lottery. Your chances of winning are minute, but everybody knows this.
heh.
harmonious design
It's the same thing that happens with kidnap victims... they end up on their captor's side...
Truly sad, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the guy....
Uh, you'd better check your math. There's much more than 5% going to someone else. Try more like 100-200% of the present value of your home.
Try this out: Multiply your monthly payment times 360 (the number of payments per year, times 30 years -- the typical home loan term). Now divide that amount by the amount you owe the bank. Should be 2.3, more or less, or 230%. And since, on payment, you'll have bought and own 100% out of that 230%, the amount you'll be paying someone else for the privilege is around 130%!
See? Isn't *compound* interest fun? That 5% is not "simple" interest, after all.
It is a good thing you're monthly payments are lower, though. Now you have more "disposable" income to buy, er..., disposables.
Imagine for a moment that the situation was not a hoax, and that there was even some legal 'grey area' that made the transaction legal.
How does some some three-car owning, middle class American decide that he has more right to benefit from a deceased estate than the legaly constituted government of a country?
Even if 90% of the hypothetical windfall was to end up in corrupt polititians pockets, the remaining ammount - used in a food program for example - could make the difference between life and death for the empoverished of some third world country.
Apart from Sessions obvious greed, there's a greater lack of morals evidenced here. For some reason the parallel that springs to mind is pasive complicity of some with the Nazi holocaust.
Sessions deserves all he got ...
DB
I have sympathy for people like you that get scammed with something that seems legit. Hell, I know people who were full time employees for a company for a year that went bust and then refused to pay them their final month's saliry.... while giving all the execs a parting bonus.
These 419 scams are really different. They are OBVIOUSLY scams. More to the point, they are well documented. Also, in this case, even if he hadn't heard of them, the police specifically told him it was a scam. That is really different.
IF someone gets scammed by something that looks quite legit and such, then I have sympathy for them. However getting scammed by some get rich quick scheme, you basically got what you deserved.
... it is a well designed scam.
next thing you will know is a lot of people receiving an emeil from that guy asking for monetary help to recover himself from a scam.
He will argue that this could have happened to you.
ok... bad taste joke, maybe.
errera hunamum ets
After seeing the 419 scams here, I started my own site, but ran out of ideas. bastards it gets old after a while because there are tons of them and they all send you the same variation on the scam. If enough people started answering these and wasting the scammers time, it's going to get a lot more costly to persue possible marks. Just a thought.
A 73 year old man with 300,000. Who gives it away to spammers. Sounds like my senile dad. my mom always had to deal with the money cause he's a braindead fucking idiot. I just dont' understand how he could have built up 300,000 dollars. Oh well, I don't feel sorry for anyone that has ever had a 300,000 dollar bank account. I fucking wish.
It's little things he says while leafing through the 3-inch stack of e-mails.
Hmm... on my screen about 5 emails take up around an inch, so I gather they mean 15 emails.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
At some point, people are just too old to handle the barrage of scams and advertisement on the internet.
This man, I'm going to assume, is too old to know any better - the senile are easily scammed by a well-spoken con artist. Happens all the time.
Keep 'em off the internet.
Simply Greed
spare a thought for the 'scamsters' who would have sent hundreds of mails everyday, withouth really expecting anyone to fall for the trick. It was sheer belief in themselves that, finally, one day bore them the fruit pf their continued persistence.
Defnitely doesnt seem to be a scam to me.
Oh, and the man who lost his money? I'd say he'd have lost it anyway (if he could lose it in this scam)
I should be more sympathetic? Fuck that. This guy is a criminal. He funded the bribing of officials all in an attempt to defraud a foreign goverment for nothing else then pure financial gain. Rule 1 of being a criminal be aware of bigger criminals. Oh well no doubt a lot of other idiots will help this sucker out proving to him that god exists and that it is goverments who seek to screw people over. God bless america.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yeah he wanted to do good with the money. Oh sure. I think we found the one person more stupid then sessions. It is you.
He had 250.000 dollars and apparently could raise even more. I hardly see that as being poor or being unable to pay the bills. No he wanted it all because he was a greedy bastard. If he had wanted to good he could have sold his cars before kept a cheap little runabout and used to money to fund a local charity. No need to steal 21 billion dollars. Don't be a sucker youreselve he is scamming you just as he wanted to scam the Nigerian goverment.
You see his fault his not being stupid. His fault is thinking that he was smarter then everyone else. Even know he doesn't believe the police because he believes he is smarter then they are.
That is the secret to avoid being scammed wether it is classic stuff like this or more subtle stuff like cheap loans, buying girls gifts, advertising. Ask yourselve this. Am I the smartest person in this deal? No? Then stay away.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Greed is good. It's what makes our economy work. Produce something, ANYTHING, then sell it for as much as the market will bear, as much as you can get away with. It's OK because someone will come along and sell it cheaper eventually. If you don't then you don't get your share of the pie. No health care, no peace of mind, no respect.
That's what every schoolkid in this sick culture has driven into their head. It's why we have the world's highest crime rate. It's why there are hundreds of assholes attacking the victim here, who may very well be senile, instead of the scumbags who perpetrated the scam.
"Oh," cry the assholes, "but look at all the stuff we have now, courtesy of capitalism. People can eat, miraculous breakthroughs in medical technology" blah blah...we're being sped along at breakneck speed into a world of designer bio-weapons and suitcase nukes, filled with scumbags obsessed with speedboats and lambourghinis.
Reminds me of the old joke about the guy who jumped out of a building..."So far so good!".
The grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence
http://www.419eater.com/index.htm
I know it is too late to post a comment on this thread, but here's an idea about the next Nigerian scam...
.....
Dear Friend,
I have been a victim of the famous Nigerian scam. I was promised 21 million dollars in return for helping poor Mr X and Mr Y get their ancestral money out of Nigeria, and ended up giving money to scamsters. I have lost everything, house, cars, bank accounts and am badly in debt. I am desperately looking for help. I never intend to fall for such scam again, and request your help in getting back on feet. Please help me by sending
Regards,
XXXX
Why don't we just EMP the whole of Nigeria, so we can flood the media with stories saying Nigeria has been EMPed, so computers in Nigeria don't work, so those email scams are fake?
These people are doing normal legal even very nice things, like assisting 1 of the frauders while the other wanders around the house to steal stuff. The scumbags that do this rely on most peoples trust that if someone tells you your house needs to be fixed that they are not lying. Do you check your garage for every repair? You also presume that if someone asks you for help that they don't have someone in the back breaking in.
This guy was asked to help in a fraud and he let greed suck him in. He is blaming the goverment of nigeria for not just giving him 21 billion. Doesn't he even realise that in a country like that it is probably several times the countries income?
Oh and as for admitting he was scammed. Those old people who are really scammed have no trouble at all admitting it and LISTEN to the police when they come around. In england they did even help in sting operations of their own where they waited for the scammers to come back only now there were coppers waiting for them. They may be suckered once be not twice and certainly don't presume that the police are lying when they say those nice people were really crooks.
Anyone else slightly puzzled about that Secret Service Agent giving his name? Aren't these people supposed to be secret? As in not giving their name to the press?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
While lot of companies claim multi millionare virtual losses on kids who "hack" their systems and deploy police task forces to bring them to justice, the common schmoe gets ripped left and right with no justice at all.
We are in a world willing to isolate and outcast countries if they don't comply with "anti terrorist" laws but if a global issue like these scams goes on the internet, they are other issue.
Take for instance Nigeria, a country swept by corruption, 19th century laws and no utility services at all (appart aids, malaria, famine and others), is it really a priority to let them have access to the internet for the sake of world integration, browse porn or any other reason if they don't act fast on stoping the crooks cold.
Organizations like RIPE, in charge to allocate the IP addresses for most of the countries where this scams are comming from, should have a more active role in preventing these situations than claiming they are no responsible for illegal activities carried over other ISPs. If an ISP fails 3 times in stoping scams they should get their IP spaces de-allocated.
Ok, some people deserve what they've got from these scams just because they are greedy, but take the guy from this story (if all the facts are true), a retiree in the US has not much help from the goverment as he should, why blame him for trying to secure his financial security. Add the fact that not all people on the internet understands it and barely some of them know how to operate a computer. This is analphabetism in the 21st century.
Regards,
This guy didn't. He wanted to defraud a goverment out of money it owned legally. You can't con an honest man may not work for every scam but the nigerian scam does work with it. If you don't think it is legal to defraud and bribe then you won't fall for it. Now go ask your mom if she think it is okay to defraud the goverment out of huge fortune. With 21 billion you would be up there with the richest people of the world.
As for what is done to prevent normal people from more normal scams? Pay enough taxes so police officers in uniform can go around and educate people about what to be aware off. It is cops that can educate and intervene and protect those that can't protect themselves.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-03 -28&res=l
Cheers.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
To win the Illinois lottery, for example, you would need well over $30bn. 54 numbers, 6 picks = 54!/(54!-6!) = 18,595,558,800 possible choices, times $2.
Any lottery that allows you to do that was not created intelligently.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
although it dosent stop them completely, it squeeze them slightly, telling them that there are people out there that dont put up with this kind of evil.
Well, none of the comments I saw made the obvious comment, which is that people tend to believe exactly what they want to believe. The fancy name is "cognitive dissonance" and reduction is the goal. In his case, he desperately wanted to believe that his financial problems were about to be solved by this manna from heaven. Actually, the article mentions his strong religious streak, which I take as symptomatic of the gullibility the 419 scammers are looking for. And now he still can't admit he was wrong.
/. article a few weeks ago about playing games with these criminals, which prompts me to repeat my warning: These 419 scammers are nasty bastards. Just because their scams are so stupidly hilarious, doesn't mean anyone should try to play any kind of game with them. The "funny picture of 419 scammer" Web sites are doing a public disservice by portraying them as stupid clowns and harmless. They are not. If they pretend to play along with any game, they are just looking for a way to nail someone. It's just more convenient for them if they can find and victimize the stupidest people available.
Actually, what it most reminds me of is many of Dubya's supporters. The bigger the shaft, the more firmly they want to support him. Just won't admit they were wrong. Sad truth is that I don't feel any particular pity for either category of sucker, but the BushCo supporters are doing more secondary harm to me and the country.
The article also mentions the kidnappings and killings. At least some of the few we know about. That reminds me of the
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
...I lived through the dot-com stock bubble.
You don't have to be old and retired to be seduced by people promising you 500% returns on $50,000 investments. Twenty-somethings will fall for it if you use enough marketspeak.
There were all sorts of people who lost tons of money in the dot-com bubble, old and young. But here's the thing: when you're young you can risk more in exchange for the potential of higher growth. This is very basic finanical planning: younger people have a much longer horizon and can afford a much more aggressive investing strategy. So it makes sense that twentysomethings would get excited by the possibility of a 500% return. Once you get older, however, any financial planner will advise you to limit your exposure to stocks and start shifting towards more conservative investments. When you're older, you can't be taking wild risks like when you did when you were much younger.
Comparing this idiot with younger people who lost money in the dot-com era is just not right. In this crazy world, none of us can be all too sure of a great many things. I invested in a mix of aggressive growth internet stocks and some nice, stable, reputable mutual funds. So although I lost some money, I didn't come out all that bad. But that's just because I'm a pretty cautious guy. I have some friends my age who lost considerably more because they didn't balance risk. So they didn't come out so well but that's okay because they've got decades in which they might end up blowing me away in terms of life savings. I don't think they're stupid at all, they just have a different outlook on investing than I do. However, those people in the 50s and 60s who lost a shitload of money in the dot-com era deserve my distain as much as this scam guy. When you are getting that close to retirement you just don't take crazy chances like that! That's just being greedy.
So please spare us this supposedly Insightful comment of yours that this scam victim is somehow just like the rest of us. He isn't. He's greedy and he's stupid. And now he's flat broke and I'm not gonna shed one single tear for him.
GMD
watch this
I realize that my comment isn't a direct response to the parent but this looks like as good as a place as any to point out the religious aspect of this story. Lots of people have already pointed out that this guy is greedy and stupid. But there's something else at work here as well: he believes he is better than the rest of us because he is religious. The story specifically mentioned that as soon as the scammers started making references to God, that the Mark was hooked. This is very important. If there was any question in this doofus' mind as to whether this was legit, it was dispelled by this simple reference to God.
Religion is a divisive force in our society. While I do not doubt that some people have obtained some benefitted from religion, it largely serves to label people and compartmentalize our supposed "melting pot". People are identified by their religious faith in the same manner as race and sex are used. But religion is unique in that people choose their religion. This makes them feel like they really belong and that others do not. In the mind of the devoutly religious, people are divided into the "have faith/found God" camp which is considered Good and "the other godless wretches" which are considered Bad. Religion serves a "secret society" kind of role in which members, consciously or not, consider other members to be "better" than non-members.
So what does this anti-religious tirade have to do with an internet scam? Mr. Religious Scam Victim sees an opportunity to profit handsomely from a deal that he knows very little about. Why was he chosen? Why would these people trust him? Because he's religious, of course. He's a member of The Club (also known as God's Favorite Children). He has been given this opportunity because either (a) good things happen to members of The Club because they're the Good guys in the world or (b) God has selected him for this mission. The money is about to be stolen away by some evil, nonreligous foreign government and it's up to him and the Chosen Ones to make sure it stays in the hands of the faithful. Why does he deserve this money? Because he's religous, and therefore, better than most people. In his mind, it's as simple as this.
Some people have expressed anger at this guy for being stupid. Some have expressed sympathy for him. Some have laughed at his greed while others feel pity. But there's one characteristic of his psyche that has not been called out yet. He believes that he is a better human being than people without religion. If you don't want to hate him for being stupid or greedy, then I implore you to hate him for having the arrogance to believe that he is a better person that those who do not subscribe to any religion.
At least in Canada, if I go right to work after high school I can expect to earn about 12,000$ a year. If I go to university, jobs start at about 30,000$ and go to about 70,000$ or more.
.. yea, that extra 1.5 million dollars sure makes you a wage slave :p
The average student loan debt after 4 years of university is about $25,000 (again, these are Canadian values -- those studying in the US should look into studying in Canada). With things like interest factored in, you're looking at about $35,610.75 on a $25,000 loan with interest over a 10 year payoff (~$297 a month).
So you pay 35 grand so that you can earn about 20 to 50 thousand dollars a year more than you would've otherwise, over the entire span of your work career. The $35,000 investment thus gives you a net of about $1,565,000
The best part is that you can stick all that extra money away (or even just a percent) in RRSPs and let it grow interest free until you retire, allowing you to live on the interest and give something to your children.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I think this shows exactly how we should all deal with these scammers. The Tale of the Holy Cow is particularly funny.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
DOH!
public final transient String president = DUBYA;
All true. The one thing to keep in mind is that real estate does occasionally go down. Money's latest issue has a column that's really kind of scary. It says someone predicts that as historically low interest rates rise, the actual sales prices of homes may fall significantly.
Mencken had it right. So glad that's old news.
And the point that you all are completely missing is that this scam is designed by people alot more smarter than you are who have been doing this for much longer than you could possibly imagine.
The scam is designed to target people. In the same way that a magician is able to use sleight of hand to make everyone think a tiger on stage has dissapeared, these guys have had decades to perfect this scam. If given the chance, they could probably fool anyone (think about it: if you got an email/phone call saying that some distant relative had left no will but cash and some lawyer had been searching years for you and finally found you and wanted to turn the money over to you, you wouldn't be as quick to dismiss it, in the end the story and players can always be changed to the point that you wouldn't recognize it as a 419 scam anymore).
In my friends instance, he was a sysadmin who had been contacted by another friend (his friend was the one who had originally been taken). Because he believed his buddy (someone he had known since childhood) he went to Nigeria to check things out. The people he met, everyone he dealt with, he compared it to doing business w/a bank. There were bankers, lawyers, so much money was being thrown around by everyone that he just fell into it. Expensive lunches (they paid for some), cabs and hotel rooms, it never ended.
I told him one thing, if you do believe this and give them money and they come up with an excuse and ask for more, run like hell. They did and he did, but not before being taken for a few grand.
They knew he was a computer person, probably figured he was a very logical person, and used that to formulate their plan of attack. The scam is about fooling people, and if you're given enough time and practice, you can fool anyone.
Just look at the guys from Tyco, Enron, etc. They gobbled billions from people all over the world and squandered it away. And they fooled people much smarter than the majority of Slashdot readers.
Don't be so quick to dismiss someone as being stupid for falling for a scam. Anyone can be fooled and most of us have been at some point or another (by scams legal and illegal) and never even realized it.
No, the bad government makes us stamp "Made in China" on the bottom of all our authentic, hand carved statues. That way they can jack up the price by claiming they're "imports". Your carved wooden elephant and antelope are authentic African design and carving.
I think just greed is a bad way to describe what causes people to fall such crap. I am sure someone has fallen for some type of scam or been duped by a conman at some point in our lives even if the results were not severe.
The conman plays their role well they can disable persons natural skepticism. After being duped by someone we think "oh shit all the signs were there if only i was thinking". It could be adrenaline rush, could be stress, could be current conditiones , could be many things that disable persons ability too think criticaly.
What is surprising about this case if that after dashing over cash the guy still didnt figure out he was duped after having time to think about it for days. Like the article states most people only lose about $3800 which suggests they only pay out once and getting it. The scammers did a superb job in this case of helping this guy sustain his illutions.
No wonder you never made it to the NHL ;)
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
I am Mr. Darl McBride, the CEO of SCO corporation.
I am in charge of this firm which is fast sinking due to the fact no one will pay my Linux toll. The litigation sector has a peculiar nature in my country as it concerns financial transactions; anything is possible for you to stay afloat with the enormous compensation therein to the right scummy lawyers.
Unfortunatly, my own lawyers have failed me and so I need to get what little money the company has left out of the corporate accounts before the company tanks and the shareholders try to take what is left. I have $37 million I was recently given by Microsoft who is trying to prop up my attempt to destroy linux. I fear they will want it back if things fail and I feel it is time to get out before the end.
Taking into cognizance the foregoing, I am in a position to make all necessary arrangement to portray you as my "lawyer" so that I can pretend to have payed all the money to a real lawyer should Microsoft or the sharewolders come looking for it. I only ask that you help me set up an account to funnel the money into. I will let you keep half of this $37 million for yourself. That will leave us both with more than enough money to flee to Brazil and live it up for the rest of our lives should the true nature of this scheme come to light.
Call me so that we can discuss further at 1-800-726-8649.
Thank you!
Darl McBride
The problem is when people get addicted to it. Spending a few dollars, or even a few hundread in an year, is not bad. But spending thousands can destroy people's lives.
If playing the lottery is ok, is the casino ok too? In both cases, it is ADDICTION that is the problem...
In any case, the view that it is a "tax" on the poor is correct. The people who play lotteries are the poor and only a FEW win. The loterry companies extract more from the lower classes than they give back (that's why they are in business and make billions).
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
That's my opinion. Either that or he needs to sue his ISP out of existence.
The site meticulously documented the many thousands of people who already received their rebates and the millions in merchandise already sold.
But my rebate check never came. They suddenly went bankrupt and disappeared into the night. At the time I thought it was just another dot bomb. But now I see it has the earmarks of a huge con that must have made the principals insanely rich.
As with the original story I guess the sweetest con is the one where the mark never even realizes he was was hit. Looking back at the cyberrebates story, at the time it was widely considered legit. I'm still not sure!
OK, OK, yeah - he was dumb to be so trusting. But, GEEZ, people - this is clearly an old retired guy. His main problem was that he was too trusting and naive, that he had too much faith in the goodness of people. Now, to me and the rest of us jaded cynics on elbows, distrust is second nature. But not everyone is so cynical.
Could you give the poor old guy just a *little* sympathy? How many of you know a nice old lady or retired guy who's just as sweet and trusting as can be? If this happened to *them*, would you spew venom and say "Hah! They deserved it!" If you dear old grandma did this would you say "Well, granny, tough shit - guess you shouldn't have been so trusting!" And there doesn't seem to be any real greed in this story. He was just trying what he thought was a legal, ethical way to improve his retirement nest egg - and $300,000 ain't a hell of a lot to retire on! He even said he hoped to use the money for "good works".
There's a very good reason that the elderly are *THE* primary targets of scam artists: not just because they tend to have money, but because they grew up in a time that was more trusting. They have a harder time saying "no" when someone pushes them because they don't want to be rude. And they have a harder time seeing the evil intent. Con artists don't exactly appear with a pitchfork and horns - they're *very* slick and know exactly how to deal with old people to gain their trust.
Let's face it, many senior citizens are so ignored by society and their familys that they're *happy* just to have someone - anyone - to talk to, especially a nice young man who treats them well, listens respectfully, and pays a lot of attention to them. Maybe if families took a more active role in the lives of their parents and grandparents instead of just shoving them off into nursing homes, they wouldn't be so desperate for attention.
So, all you cruel Slashdot grinches, yes - he acted stupidly. But don't you think you could spare just a little sympathy for someone whose only real crime was that his trust in human nature blinded him?
I left CSU, Chico after four years with a surplus in the bank. Tuition was only a bit over $2000 per year, books and such about $800 -- I paid as I went, and never needed a single loan.
That said, in several industries, the whole matter of having a degree at all is really quite optional. Several of the best engineers I know don't, and their careers are getting along just fine. Further, in the job I have now, I was selected from a pool of candidates which included multiple PHDs.
Further, living in Texas (as I do now), the taxes I pay are minimal (there are no state income taxes here), so I'm able to live far more comfortably than I could in Canada. (That said, I certainly don't have the same kind of safety nets available in the event of some severe hardship).
Folks like the grandparent poster who claim that a tremendously expensive education is mandatory in the US (except in some specialized fields such as medicine) are simply full of it.
"A Fool and his money are soon parted". What I want to know, is how does someone stupid enough to fall for such an obvious scam manage to make so much money in the first place?
I'm astonished that so many posts here think this story is funny, or that this guy (and wife) got what he deserved. This is the saddest story I've read in a while. Of all the lassaiz-faire, libertarian-style thought that flows around on Slashdot, this "stupid people deserve to lose all their money" attitude is the most chilling. I mean, come on, that's the exact same justification made by con men and scammers themselves.
There are people in the world that cannot take care of themselves. Some are retarded or suffer from psychosis or other mental problems. Some suffer from incurable illnesses. Some are too young or too old. Some are disabled and unable to work. And some are just not smart, that is, stupid.
Which of these categories deserve to be broke and homeless? Which of these should we kick to the curb without any assistance or fallback support? Which of these can we laugh at because they're scared about where they're going to be able to sleep or feed their freaking dog?
Tough for me to say that about any of them.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
There really needs to be stronger international enforcement on these scams.
Education wil be much more effective than enforcement. Get the Hallmark Channel to produce a drama about a 419 victim.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-- Albert Einstein
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
how people like this can be taken for everything. Before condemning them, we must consider that some elderly people aren't mentally capable of discerning a fraud, even when forewarned. Elderly people are often set in their ways, and in such cases it is difficult to get them to change their minds, for any reason. Some people have too much faith in mankind, and blame societies ills on society itself, and not on the failures of men.
Anyway you look at it, whether his punishment was deserved or not, there should be a legal solution. Close relations of these scam victims should declare them unfit to manage their personal finances before major damage is done. Power of attorney should be granted whenever a case like this presents itself. If there are no surviving relatives, then the management of the estate should be given to the state. This may sound harsh, but the alternative is far beyond worse.
This should be the case for those who are not elderly as well. Anyone who falls for a scam after being warned by the authorities should meet the criteria of being unfit to manage their finances.
If there is no legal precedent for this solution then there should be. As for this specific case, I pity him and especially his wife. They will have to suffer on account of his failings and the deceipt of the worst of criminals, those who prey upon hope.
I hate this stupid old argument...
Nothing "sounds too good to be true" unless you already know that it is a scam. For instance, a completely free PC would sound too good to be true, but sure enough, they were giving them away, just a few years ago.
Nothing sounds too good to be true, because crazier things have happened... People have won the lottery, people have inherited millions of dollars, etc. Yet people continue to say "if it sounds too good..." as if it's an all-purpose, magical divining-rod that, when you ask yourself, will instantly reveal any scam, no matter who you are, no matter how much you know, etc.
You need to tell that to everyone who invested in WorldCom and Enron.
You are pretending that no rational person can be scammed, because it gives you piece of mind. People used to do the same things in the distant past... People once thought it you were a good Christian person, bad things wouldn't happen to you. If anything bad happened to a good person, they much have been evil deep-down, and nobody knew it.
"It's too good to be true..." is just another way that people think they can control things that aren't under their control. It's a new-aged rabbit's foot, and horseshoe, rolled into one.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Some states let you pick your own numbers on your lottery tickets. You can substantially increase your chances of not sharing the prize by picking relatively high numbers, which are less likely to be picked by others since most other people's "lucky" numbers tend to be low numbers.
Picking the high numbers doesn't affect your own chance of winning, but it has a very definite effect on your chance of having to share the prize if you win. Unfortunately I don't have specific figures to quantify the size of this effect.
Some peopel are immune to 419 scams. When I was young, I got my first Nigerian scam letter, telling a sad story about some family of the President, who was overthrown. I was asked to help transfer the funds and get a cut. What do you think I said in response?..
:) How motivated were the Nigerians? Apparently, not much, since our e-mail exchange soon subdued.
:)
Being the kind, honest and altruistic young man I was, I wrote them that I would be more than happy to help and, even more, I would do it for free, just out of pity to their bad situation. Now please think, how much I would be motivated to send them any cash or to go to Nigeria with any money? Not in the very least, since I am already doing them a favour.
Thus the moral of the story - lack of greed makes you immune to 419 and many other scams.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
I'm going to connect a few dots here. Persian Gulf. Bought laptops, cellphones for scammers. $320,000 (buys a lot of kalishnakov rifles). Has anyone yet considered that the 419 Scams have evolved from a simple scam, to an urban legend, to a joke, to a sad commentary on the gullability of westerners, and finally, to a viable revenue stream for terrorist organizations?
"I consider them my friends," he says. "They're not criminals."
Dont forget that he fell for something that did hint at money earned via illegal and corrupt means.Meaning he paid for his greed.Maybe the sayings of the old are true sometimes.
Wanted : A Signature.
"I never went to college, so now I hate and disparage all those who do. And I have a $20,000-$30,000 per year job."
Now, it might be illegal, but it might also be interesting to exploit security holes in OE to gain access to their computer!
Actually, you might not even need to exploit holes - if you are able to make them run an executable attachment with some kind of backdoor program you could use.
Wouldn't it be rather nice to get full access to their PC, or maybe even their entire network! Imagine the evidence you could gather. I'm sure it could be of use to someone :)
Clever signature text goes here.
I don't know which disgusts me more, the scammers or some of the replies here. I bet you're all WAY too smart to fall for a pretty woman asking you to buy her a drink, right? That just happens to fools and stupid people, who deserve to lose their money, right?
BULLSHIT.
Most of you arrogant, ignorant morons are EXACTLY the type who, at some point, get taken in by a scam. But just like this poor man, you think you're too smart to be taken, so you live in denial. Yet, you talk about the poor guy like he deserved it? Well, when your time comes, you actually WILL deserve it.
I have no empathy for moderation beggers :)
But seriously, I both agree this man was greedy, stupid, and that it's beyond belief that he still trusts the spammers. However I do feel sorry for him. I'm wondering if Slashdot is a bunch of sociopaths without the ability or desire to feel what others are feeling.
So yes, I think even this man deserves sympathy. I'm not saying we should pool our money and give it to him, or that he shouldn't learn from his mistakes. But I'm sure we've all made bad decisions which we still live while telling ourselves they are someone else's fault.
He would rather blame the foreign governments than himself. Blaming is another human trait which we all share. In fact, I see a lot of blaming here on Slashdot. We aren't all super-perfect humans because we like technology.
Actually your example of someone tripping into a fire is more akin to Darwinism that someone losing a bunch of money. Darwin's theory is "survival of the fit" -- meaning those who survive will be able to reproduce and generate offspring thereby automatically selecting individuals fit for their environment.
Darwin despised the idea that rich people grabbed onto his theory to explain that they were somehow better than everyone else because the money they had "proved" it. Social Darwinism is a failed theory, and was never expoused by Darwin himself. The fitness for the environment could select for many types of individuals. It is certainly possible that stupidity is specifically selected for in certain environments. In the case of people in modern societies that is pretty much established: uneducated people have more children.
In summary, if you want to judge people for being stupid please check your facts first.
I've noticed the tendency to blame the victim in the US more than other places. Why? Ok, in this instance you can reasonably argue the victim had a large role in his misfortunes. But he was still taken advantage of and his retirement is probably ruined. I feel sorry for him. I don't think "he deserved it".
This was certainly a greedy and foolish man. And he is obviously in denial about what he has done. I agree that he should have known better, and that people did everything they could be expected to do to help him. I'm not saying anybody should have done anything differently (except for him). I'm not saying that someone needs to find a way to fix it for him.
What I am saying is: do you really have no sympathy for him at all? If so, that is sad and scary, and I guess it says a lot about the current state of society.
The article doesn't say, but I wonder how he was prepped for intervention by the authorities. Controlling expectations is a very important part of any long-term con*: "When people find out, they won't like this. They'll say I'm trying to get you to do something illegal or wrong. But you have a lawyer, you've seen the documents..." etc. Then when the police show up, they just play into the role. "yep, my nigerian friend said you'd say that".
I think the FBI could/should use a previous victim to give testimonial. "Hi Rupert, I'm Shane. I was taken in by these same people 6 years ago..." This also makes it less embarassing to admit the truth.
* Also vital in giving tech support.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
"Oh yes, this will pay off big, after you're dead."
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
I want to buy his house... I'm sure I can get a good deal on it... no really. I'm serious.
It sounds shitty, but he needs $$$ and I want his property.
Nothing "sounds too good to be true" unless you already know that it is a scam
No, you're estimating risk, reward and costs.
If anything bad happened to a good person, they much have been evil deep-down, and nobody knew it
That is discussed and refuted in Ecclesiastes and Job.
just another way that people think they can control things that aren't under their control
Yes, exactly. Why I could die on the toilet just like Elvis did! But that sounds too bad to be true, so I'll take the risk.
This is what a 419 looks like, isn't it? ! heh. i just got it in the mail today. I'm amused. 'thought i'd share
,
From: "Mariam Hisman"
FROM MISS MARIAM HISMAN
COTE D'IVOIRE ABIDJAN
WEST AFRICA.
TELE/+22507705977.
DEAR
PERMIT ME TO INFORM YOU OF MY DESIRE OF GOING INTO
BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU. I GOT YOUR NAME AND
CONTACT FROM IVOIREAN FOREIGN PARTNERS SEARCH ENGINE.
I PRAYED OVER IT AND SELECTED YOUR NAME AMONG OTHER NAMES DUE TO IT'S ESTEEMING NATURE AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS GIVEN TO ME AS A REPUTABLE AND TRUSWORTHY PERSON I CAN DO BUSINESS WITH AND BY THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS I MUST NOT HESISTATE TO CONFIDE IN YOU
FOR THIS SIMPLE AND SINCERE BUSINESS.
I AM MISS MARIAM HISMAN, THE ONLY DOUGHTER OF LATE ALAHAJI WAZIRI HISMAN. MY FATHER WAS A VERY WEALTHY COCOA MERCHANT BASED IN ABIDJAN, THE ECONOMIC CAPITAL OF IVORY COAST BEFORE HE WAS POISONED TO DEATH BY HIS BUSINESS ASSOCIATES ON ONE OF THEIR OUTING TO DISCUSS ON A BUSINESS.
WHEN MY MOTHER DIED ON THE 21ST OCTOBER 1978, MY FATHER TOOK ME SO SPECIAL BECAUSE OF THE DEATH OF MATHER AND ALSO AS THE ONLY CHILD OF ALAHAJI HISMAN.
BEFORE THE DEATH OF MY FATHER ON 29TH JUNE 2002 IN A PRIVATE HOSPITAL HERE IN ABIDJAN. HE SECRETLY CALLED ME ON HIS BEDSIDE AND TOLD ME THAT HE HAS A SUM OF 26,300,000 ( TWENTY SIX MILLION THREE HUNDRED THOUSANDS DOLLARS,)DEPOSITED IN A SECURITY COMPANY HERE IN ABIDJAN.HE USED MY NAME AS DEPOSITOR AND NOT THE BENEFICIARY DUE TO OUR POLITICAL STATUS AND THE NATURE OF DEPOSIT I CAN NOT SERVE AS THE BENEFICIARY.
HE ALSO EXPLAINED TO ME THAT IT WAS BECAUSE OF THIS WEALTH THAT HE WAS POISONED BY HIS BUSINESS ASSOCIATES. THAT I SHOULD SEEK FOR A FOREIGN PARTNER IN A COUNTRY OF MY CHOICE WHERE I WILL TRANSFER THIS MONEY AND USE IT FOR INVESTMENT PURPOSE, (SUCH AS REAL ESTATE MANAGEMENT).
I AM HONOURABLY SEEKING FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE IN THE FOLLOWING WAYS.
2)TO SERVE AS THE GUARDIAN OF THIS FUND SINCE I AM IS STILL YOUNG GIRL OF 26YEARS.
3). You honestly take me as your family?
4). Can I completely trust you?
5). What percentage of the total amount in question will
be good for you after the money is in your country
6).TO MAKE ARRANGEMENT FOR ME TO COME OVER TO YOUR
COUNTRY AFTER THE MONEY HAS BEEN TRANSFERRED.
MOREOVER, I AM WILLING TO OFFER YOU 25% OF THE TOTAL SUM AS COMPENSATION FOR YOUR EFFORT/INPUT AFTER THE SUCCESSFUL TRANSFER OF THIS FUND TO YOUR COUNTRY OVERSEAS.FURTHERMORE, YOU CAN INDICATE YOUR OPTION TOWARDS ASSISTING ME AS I BELIEVE THAT THIS TRANSACTION WOULD BE CONCLUDED WITHOUT PROBLEMS.INTEREST TO ASSIST ME.
ANTICAIPTING TO HEAR FROM YOU SOON.
THANKS AND BEST REGRADS.
MISS MARIAM HISMAN.
-------
"There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness."- Friedrich Nietzsche
Something looking "too good to be true" doesn't mean you should automatically dismiss the idea. If it looks too good to be true, then further investigation is warranted before proceeding. If it then starts to smell fishy, be careful before investing in such an endeavour.
I was just quoting the parent message. I agree the term is somewhat derogatory and I don't like using it but it is generally used to classify nations economically.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning