Slashdot Mirror
Exxon And Timex Release The Speedpass watch
introverted writes "Exxon and Timex have released a Speedpass-enabled watch. From the article, this sounds like a regular Timex watch with an RFID chip in it. According to a radio news story, you can not only use the watch to buy gas, but at some locations in Chicago you can also use it at McDonald's. The watch is available from Timex. This was first mentioned on Slashdot in March last year."
Swatch have been making them for years.
I'll have a filet-o-fish meal and a side order of invasion-of-privacy, please. :)
Tastes like gas!
"you can not only use the watch to buy gas, but at some locations in Chicago you can also use it at McDonald's"
Hello, I'll take premium fuel for my car and sub-standard fuel for my body.
And Super Size it.
OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
So are these watches which would normally cost $45, but have a Speedpass built-in gratis? A Speedpass is free, I would hate to pay extra for the same thing just because it's in a watch.
so now the guy who steals your watch can get free gas...
A month later, all of them has taken down the receivers and nary a word was said. I think the central problem in this one example is that nobody wants to hand 10 bucks to a holding company to buy burgers on 49-cent Wednesday.
We want to use our debit cards like we do almost everywhere else.
GTRacer
- 1077, same as a cheese pizza and a soda...
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
I guess I'll have to make room on my arm beside all my other watches: my Timex pager watch, my casio calculator watch circa 1984, my palm watch. At least I could buy a Big Mac if I happened to be streaking through the McDonalds parking lot without my wallet.
I want to pass an RFID receiver over everybody's watches (especially at gas stations), collect the RFID, and then transmit it every time I need some gas. Cool - free gas, MacDonalds, etc.
Lost your wallet?
Lost the time?
Which do you value more? I hope the watch band is sturdy.
- Dan
So now I can ask someone if they have the time beside a drivethru at mcdonalds, and have them pay for my meal! Sweet!
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
Goatse/Shitcovered face link above.
Is this powered by a solar jacket?
this is a neat idea. i wont need to worry about some stealing my keychain and running up a bill.
The UN is offering an RFID-embedded tattoo! The bearer is guaranteed the ability to buy and sell in any member countries without currency! Suggested locations for the tattoo are on the back of one's hand or the forehead.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Well, there's only one logical solution. Implanted microchip in the index finger.
And if you bitch about your "privacy," the terrorists win. Remember that.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Apparently, their motto of "Keeps a lickin but keeps on tickin" doesn't apply to their web site.
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. --Nietzsche
So how long until you can buy a small RF snooping device that lets you record and replay RFID signatures, kind of like the kind for garage door openers.
Or is thinking of this a violation of the DMCA.
Science is the Real TRUTH!
the FBI.
No more filesharing for y0u !
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
It's kind of cool (not really) how when we were little we saw visions of distopia and laughed. Now we see the building blocks being built before our eyes.
I sure hope they build tinfoil hats with "speedpasses" so I don't have to take mine off to get a cheeseburger.
postmodernsideshow.com
I'm in favor of anything that makes it easier to shop online, in groceries stores, at the gas pump, whereever. But this new watch could cause you a mass of grief if it fell off your wrist. At least credit cards can be cancelled. How do you cancel a radio frequency?
It's been a Mobil item for some time. Exxon is now equipping their stations faster and should catch up with Mobil-branded places.
The RF chip is in the band, not the watch.
I swapped the Timex watch body for a decent Casio
The watch works much better at the POS terminals inside the stations/stores, where the key tags have always had mediocre luck.
They both work well on the pumps.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
Come on people, form an orderly line! There's enough for everybody to have one!
Get your own mark of the beast right here!
You idiot geeks and your gadget fetish. You'd scream bloody murder if GW Bush forced you to wear one of these. But since it's a neat gadget and a convienence, you'll don your shackles eagerly. ex - see CELL PHONES
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This makes paying for stuff very convenient and quick. I only hope it catches on in mass. The next thing I think this technology should be used for is in schools to track children. How do we make it work? Just use RFID as a way to take attendance. There's no way that could be circumvented if every student has their own ID watch.
I can see in my crystal ball parents liking these ideas. I know mine would have liked some sort of tracking device when I was a youngster in the 50s.
For some of us that still uses the traditional sundial or just don't wear a watch at all, we will continue to stick with the traditional speedpass... if we had one that is.
I can do McDonalds Drive Thru, without the effort of getting my wallet out.
I can get petrol without getting my wallet out.
Damn still had to walk to the car though...
These ideas need more work if I'm to become a total slob
mailto:EatSpamAndDie@princeweb.com
This won't work for many reasons.
First of all, its a luxury, which is good during great economy times (which hasn't happened in over a year, now).
Second, it will only be effective if speedpass is common in a populous area (and does the seconds faster it takes than a credit card really make it that much better?).
Third, people freak out when they see RFID even though it gives out as much info as using the credit cards everyone uses.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
What sort of security is built into these things? If it's stolen can anyone just go and use it to buy some fries, or does it require some sort of user interaction like a credit card (pin/signature)?
--
This sig is inoffensive.
What are some of the current great geek watches?
There are: watches with simple computer functions, watches with atomic clock radio recievers, watches with digital cameras, watches with IR remotes, watches with calculator/basic PIM functions, watches that run on Mars time and pager watches.
Any others? What is your fav?
does it support Ogg? because if it doesn't support Ogg, who's gonna buy it?
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
So I can use my watch to pay for my SUV's gas AND buy a triple cheese burger without having to break a sweat by pulling out my wallet? Lovely.
How long until (1) someone makes a device to read others RFID chips (without them noticing), and (2) can create RFID tags with programmable IDs?
Really, how is the security / authentication implemented here?
)9TSS
The timex watch has been available for a couple of months at our local grocery store--Stop & Shop in the New England area. The watch is free with purchase, but it must be tied to a bank account for direct debit not to a credit card.
You cancel the credit card connected to it. It's as if you lost your credit card.
Simple solution? Don't lose the watch. Don't let your watch get stolen. It's the exact same solution we prescribe for credit cards - what makes it so unreasonable for your watch? If someone's going to break into your gym locket to steal your "Speedpass" watch, why wouldn't they also grab your wallet, car keys, and anything else valuable?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
The article (I know, crazy talk here) states, "inside the watchband is a miniature Speedpass radio frequency transponder."
This means the watch band could possibly be attached to different watches. It also means you better be careful with that old, broken watch band!
Think this could be a good deal for the people at Target who get stuck replacing watch bands for people?
(Imaginary conversation)
Clerk: Here you go. I just put the new band on your watch to replace your broken one. Do you want me to throw away the old one?
Customer: Sure. What am I going to do with an old, broken watch band?
Clerk: OK. That'll be $7.04 with tax. Have a nice day -- I have to go to my lunch break now.
Who cares? Looks like the nice people at Wal-Mart will install RFID in any ordinary watch *at no extra cost*! (Damn, I *so* miss not being American and not getting great stuff like that; never mind, they'll introduce it to the UK soon).
Seriously, this has to be the laziest, lamest pseudo-convenience ever. I sincerely hope some criminals crack this privacy-invading lame-ass bull**** soon, so all the useless-gadget buying weenies who have nothing better to do with their money or privacy and want something "cool" (ha ha) to impress their friends for a couple of hours get to act as sacificial lambs in the fight against RFID bullshit.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
When Exxon and Mobil merged in 2001, they dropped
domestic partnership benefits for all of their
employees.
http://www.fightinghate.org/exxon_mobil.htm
Timex also sells the RFID enabled watches at the east-coast based Stop & Shop
The ______ Agenda
A chain of grocery stores near my home ran a promotion: spend at least $30 and pay with your speedpass, get a free Timex/Speedpass watch.
The grocery chain is running a pilot program in my area-- as soon as we found out about it, we went up to the customer service desk, hooked our speedpass into their accounting system and a month later had a new watch!
Mobil and Timex have has this going for YEARS... I've had mine for just over 3 months,, but I have wanted one for at least a year and a half...
This is not news... well ok.. its old news..
"It's not like your minds are as open as the source you love..." - Me to the majority of Slashdot.
> that's not all they release, they also release oil on defenseless sea animals.
Defenseless?
I lost a fight with an otter back in 'Nam. They call me "Stubby" now. Next time I saw an otter, it tasted hot American lead before it even knew I was there.
Defenseless my ass, you goddamned hippie.
I love it when moderators mod posts as "Trolls" when they disagree or don't understand. The parent poster had a perfectly valid point. How is this an invasion of privacy? It's nothing more than a credit card you don't have to swipe or sign for. I've been using a Speedpass for my cars' gas for about 5 years now (Esso has 'em in Canada), and let me tell you, it's damn convenient. It's even faster than debit.
Pull up to the pump. Exit car. Wave Speedpass over receiver. While it is authorizing, take off your gas cap, lift the nozzle, and select your fuel type. By then, the authorization's gone through and you're already pumping. When full, replace nozzle. By the time you screw the gas cap back on, the receipt is ready. Get back in car and drive off. And if you don't want to wait for your receipt, no worries, it doesn't have your credit card number on it anyway.
Debit might sound like not much more hassle, but remember: I'm in Canada. It gets damn cold up here in the winter. I can pay with Speedpass and pump my gas without ever having to remove my gloves or mitts. Not so with debit. Try taking out your wallet, removing and swiping your card, then punching a bunch of buttons with mitts on in -35 degree weather. Aside from being slower, it's just plain not possible.
People who shriek about "privacy" regarding these types of benign things have either never used them, or are just whoring for karma. There is no privacy issue. They're basically just a credit card you don't have to sign for.
If you lose the tag, cancel the credit card. Same as if you'd lost the card itself. Since the Speedpass tags are almost always with your car keys anyway, if you lost your tag, then you probably lost your car keys too, and you've got more things to worry about than privacy. Like, say for example, canceling that credit card and finding your car!
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
mod down
Do PROM-style RFIDs exist? Could you overhear the challenge-response interaction at the pump and make your own copy?
Enquiring thieves want to know.
Wah!
Let the era of digital pick-pocketing commence!
Since I'm clueless, perhaps this post could thread a discussion about RFID security. Is there a challenge response of sorts? Public/Private key? -or is it more like a digital UPC symbol that can be read generically by any RFID capable system?
however, ALL gadget watches (with the sole exception of the Breitling with the emergency beacon in it) look like cack on your wrist and mark you out as a sad sack.
USB watch storage? Ugh. Microsoft Spot? Ack. That Fossil Palm-on-your-wrist? Please.
Real men buy Omega Seamasters and leave the gadgets in their pockets.
We make a slicking and keep on ticking.
I avoid Timex products because of thier reputation for being disrespectfully to thier Scottish employees and I avoid Exxon because of thier pollution record in Alaska, so this is a really easy negative, even though I do like gadgets!
I stole this
This is not an invasion of privacy any more than using a credit card or debit card at a checkout or gas pump. In fact, it's probably less so, since there will most likely be a way to use prepaid accounts (not sure if that is available yet based on the web site but it seems logical).
Also, the RFID-enabled watch is not mandatory for purchases. Want anonymity? Pay cash.
Also, no personal data is stored on the watch, according to the manufacturer. All it does is link back to a Speedpass account number.
Perhaps the invasion of privacy comes from the fact that RFID tags are inherently evil?
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
I have one.
pretty convenient, to have ability to pay for gas and food even if you lose your wallet.
I'm a privacy bigot, but to me this is acceptable.
I KNOW they're tracking these purchases (they have to for it to work) and their ppolicy is fine.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
Years ago, when speedpass first came out, I filled out an application, but declined to put my SSN on it. If I link it to a credit card, why should you have my SSN?
Needless to say, I never heard back, and I don't intend to ever get one if the SSN is required. Or maybe I'll just make one up and see what happens.
For those who don't know - it is not a credit device, it is a billing device. It links to an existing credit card. They may have expanded to granting credit, but it was not part of the deal when I tried to sign up.
Bob: Hey Tom, what time is it?
Tom: It's... oh shit, I lost my watch...
(Meanwhile, across town)
Fred: Hey Mark, what time is it?
Mark: Time for some more free hamburgers!
The government's moral compass is controlled by GPS.
In times of crises, they alter it to suit their needs.
I own an SUV. What are you going to do about it, geek? Huh? What are you going to do other than shake your tiny fist in rage and vote for political candidates with questionable hygene? Set fire to it in the middle of the night? Feh. Cowardly children with nothing more to your lives than anger and rage at those who handle life far better than you?
RFID, good ideas. Putting this chip in somehting that might not be very popular in a year or less, bad idea. I think it's a good idea to put them in all sorts of other things. What about a belt attachement (very tiny), card for your wallet, maybe something else.
Point being, put it in something less fasion related, like clothes are.
Pretty Pictures!
I don't have a complete alternative, but I'm thinking of something like "digital money" i.e. you purchase tokens (digital coins, generated with a public key/private key method) which you can load into your speedpass, then when you reach the toll station it transfers the appropriate tokens to the toll station. It could also show how many tokens you have still left.
The token generating procedure is solved, I believe (there is literature on that available). I'm not sure how to do the loading of the speedpass, though.
A possibility might be to have a seperate button on the device which would permit authenitfications at just one specific toll station, so you can re-charge. Or you'd need special machines where you can re-charge (which is a bit awkward, I admit).
The devices would have to be more expensive to make, but maybe the higher acceptance would make it economically viable, anyway.
People will flock to buy them in droves, to trade off some more of tiher privacy and anonymity for a tiny bit of 'convenience'.
Its no wonder that judges and congress see no problem in re-interpreting our basic foundation on a whim. People don't seem to care about their rights and freedoms, so why should they be protected?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What if I want to pay cash instead of using my RFID wristwatch? I pull up to the drive-thru window, but because my watch is close enough to the receiver to be picked up, it automatically registers my payment, despite my yelling at the droid behind the register: "Wait wait! I have money!"
I think the RFID system would be better if I had to press a button on the watch to register my acceptance of their payment request.
Chip H.
Minor nit. Another multi-year Speedpass user here, and we were typing at the same time about using it in the cold. Nit: If you lose the fob, don't cancel the credit card! Just call Speedpass customer service and cancel the fob. That way, you can still get gas with your card until the replacement fob arrives..
I'm surprised how many people have said, "just cancel the card" here. Its not THAT tightly bound to the card. I had mine bound to a check card a year before they approved it. Also, they call you when they detect unusual activity. I had to fill up every 2 days for 2 weeks, so they called to see if everything was ok.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Not to mention the sneaky vendor lock-in that the speedpass causes.
I normally go to the most inexpensive gas station I can find on the right side of the street I'm currently travelling on. I don't want to have to choose Exxon because of a silly speedpass thing. Besides most stations take credit cards at the pump these days.
Except Shell, which one out of three times asks you to go see the attendant when you try to use a CC. I just drive off and find another station; I'm not giving them my business if they don't offer me the convenience other stations do.
-Z, picky.
...it's time for a slashdotting
Using a Speedpass to buy McDonalds... is probably a sign that you're eating too much McDonalds!
with a credit card, but to me the significant thing is speed. just like people are now expected to have cel phones and be accessible all the time, expectations will change with the ability to do things faster... we will be expected to do more things ("things" in this case being work, of course).
It used to be the Chicago muggers would leave your watch alone unless it was a Rolex. Now they're gonna take my plastic Casio SciCalc Compass Watch too, "just in case."
How hard would it be for some unscrupulous person to just hood up a speedpass reader in a high traffic area and try to read, and charge, every speedpass that happened to pass within a foot or so?
Wireless internet connection + speedpass reader + batterys or whatever power source...
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have my pocket picked electronically...
"I'll take three Big Macs, two large fries, and a diet Coke."
"Okay, that'll be... two G-Shocks and a CrossSport."
"I've only got a Day Glo. Got change?"
"No problem. A Calcutron annnnnd... three failed ladies' calculator watches (I don't know why those never take off)..."
I can't wait until they create a watch that works with the I-PASS system. You know, the little box that automagically pays your toll as you drive past the toll gates at 20 mph? If I only had an I-PASS watch, I could just stick my arm out while I drive past the scanner like this and AAAAAGH MY HAND!!! THE BLOOD!!! OH GOD THERE'S SO MUCH BLOOD!!! AAAGGGHH!!!
how is this different in security? Everyone is doing the standard "invasion of privacy" and "lack of security" response here. I'll agree it lessens privacy a little more (as if it could go any lower), but is it any less secure than anything else.
Consider, for example, the following:
1. We give our credit cards to a less-than minimum wage employee each time we pay for a meal at a restaraunt. The credit card leaves our sight for several minutes.
2. We give our credit card with no signature over the phone and internet all the time.
3. Does anyone match the signature on the credit card with the signature you provide anyway? I've seen it done in some cities, but here in the West people normally give you the card back before you even sign.
4. This could go on, but the point is made.
Credit cards work because the companies cover the losses (for the most part). It's cheaper to cover losses than to prevent them. These watches and whatever else comes in the future will probably work the same.
Nothing's changed here, people. Move along...
I can see it now, a guy gets his monthly bill after losing his Speedpass watch. "According to the bill I ate 157 value meals and 3 bottles of viagra."
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
If you lose the tag, cancel the credit card.
Not sure how it works in Canada, but here in the Chicago Area, the Speedpass has a unique number that is tied to a credit card. Lose the Speedpass, you just cancel the pass and not the card itself.
As for the privacy aspect, I've had one of these for about three years and it sure comes in handy. It gets cold here in Chicago as well so the less time standing by the pump, the better. We can also use them at McDonald's. I don't have to juggle the kids, keys, and cash. My Speedpass in on my keys, so I just juggle two things.
If it is of some value to someone to know how many happy meals my kids eat or how often I fill the tank of the Jeep, they are welcome to it.
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
The watch is even capable of preventing liquor'd up captains from spilling thousands of oil into the sea!
Which is different from a debit or credit card...how?
I sing the doggie electric!
I heard of the watch a while ago. I think they
were being offered last year when the Speedpass
was being linked up to some trial locations here
in MA.
I haven't heard of the McDonalds' (although it
seems like a good idea), but there are a couple of
area Stop & Shop (chain grocery/pharmacy) stores
in MA that accept the Speedpass. The charge goes
to your speedpass account (you pay by waving the
tag by the credit card scanner), and your SpeedPass
account doubles as your Stop & Shop loyalty card
which gets you the sale prices and double coupons
and such. Don't have to sign anything, either.
http://www.speedpass.com/stopandshop/
-mrv
RFID's for school?
What ever happened to:
Teacher: "Raise your hand when I call your name. Johnny?"
Johnny: "Here."
Teacher: "Sally?"
Sally: "Here!"
Sheesh... always worked when I was in school....
With Pat. Act II, we no longer need SSNs or universal IDs. Now the government can locate us quickly via the use of corporate DBs. I am guessing that in the future if you do not have one of these marvelous devices, then the government will simply focus on your movements in the traffic cams.
Yeah, yeah. No doubt several of you will post something about tin foil hats and all, but then you obviously do not read your history.
First they came for the jew, but I did nothing....
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
... I want one that handles special Martian time with 24:39:35 days.
If a _Swiss_ watch that's less than $100 that happens to have some nifty little feature on it illicits this sort of tirade then I think it's time to have that sizeable inferiority complex examined by a certified professional.
Or perhaps if those that care for you could organise an intervention...
Outside of being able to place you at the gas station on Wednesday, at 8:27am, purchasing premium fuel, a large coffee and violating your caffeine probation, while you should have been at work already...right, nothing going on there. See you again, next week..same time, same coffee. Can we rely on you to read the flyer on alternative fuels we intend to send to the mailing address tied to your c'card?
So you only use cash for everything? It's a damn credit card! If you don't want anyone to know you are buying something, don't use it.
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
Simply put them in food "per serving". Count your calories on intake, during digestion, or later (eeewwwww). What about medication? A medic alert necklace with an RFID reader to check for proper medication levels.
Wait, are RFIDs safe for human consumption?
www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
www.fairtax.org
Cards don't have the ability to capture/supply GPS data...yet.
http://www.ti.com/tiris/docs/news/news_releases
"RFID systems feature a digital signature encryption protocol that has a challenge/response authentication to ensure complete consumer protection.
This technique makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible to duplicate the transponder (tag), or the secret encryption key. And, even if the key were duplicated, it would only be valid for one tank of gas, making it a very expensive tank of gasoline for a would-be criminal. "
My take is that it's more secure than the credit cards in my pocket. So what's the problem then?
Calm down, and next wednesday, buy decaf...see you then. And don't worry, RFID isn't in money yet...at least none that is in public circulation :)
I agree 100%. I am constantly having to fix broken windoze boxes and everytime IE is loaded with hotbar or gator type hijackers. I'm sick of explaining to idiots that the percieved "benefits" of these features have a serious consequense in the background.
Anyone who helps embrace the new trend of RFID tags with lame arguments such as "I don't need to take out my credit card" (PIN numbers anyone?) is IMHO the absolute equivalent of those hotbar/gator downloaders.
You all say you value your freedom yet you'll squeal like the three little pigs when it has finally and irrevocalbly been lost. Can't you see the insidious trend you are supporting?
while sco {
wget -O
}
Damn skippy! What's next? I can't complain about the president if I didn't bother voting? I can't bitch about jar-jar after getting TPM from kazaa?
As an American, it is my right--nay, my duty! to come to /., for which I neither subscribe nor view adds, and complain that my warez copy of photoshop won't make fake money.
Say what you want about me, but I will not sit here while you bad-mouth the United States of America!
Looks like Timex, Exxon, and McDonalds are on the cutting edge of the race towards the Mark of the Beast. Way to go, kids...
With a credit card, the user has a certain amount of control over who gets exposure to the card. You may not notice the Gas Attendant swiping your card through a second card reader, but at least your aware of where the cards been (unless its been stolen) and that this type of attack could take place if you don't watch the individual closely.
With these tags, the user is not necessarily aware of when they may or may not have been activated. If some bright hack (not that I'm challenging anyone) should place a transceiver on top of a gas pump, next to a grocery store entrance, etc. for a few days to collect tag signatures, you've been compromised. As exploits of this nature have (to the best of my knowledge) yet to be employed/published, "security through obscurity" is achieved.
You sly dog: you got me monologuing! - Syndrome
Sure I'm all for anyone who wants to "use" these technologies but those who choose NOT to use these technologies should have alternatives that don't cost any MORE then the current "popular" offering. then its a real choice and not a choice driven by cost and/or user fees.
A good example is the rapidly disappearing acceptance of personal cheques in Canada. In fact most big chains like WALMART don't accept cheques anymore.
So if I chose NOT to use a debit card and I can't write a cheque, I guess I should start carrying my bag of loonie and toonies around with my bag of coal! (:-
If technology is all about choice then lets be fair about the types of choices offered and how they are being offered.
Neither does a RFID tag you fucking moron... GOD I hate it when some num-nuts makes a technology out to be something other then it really is. The RFID tag needs a RF Reader for it to work... and most have a limited range of a few feet because after all it is RF and anything stronger would start to cause RF interference with other RF devices... like say your TV, Radio Cell phone. Please for the love of GOD at least brush up on the technology before you open your pie hole!
Not to be a party poopper, but things like speed pass and card swipers at the pump are damn convenient...for the gas station and the oil companies.
Think about it, what does this speed up? What part of the process is facilitated? Them getting the money out of your pocket. Let's them get your money faster at less cost with less man-power.
As the customer, the part of the process you should look at is the delivery of the product. Where are the advances in getting the gas into your car? What the oil companies doing to make it easier for you to get your side of the transaction?
Most of my time at the station is spent standing by my car pumping gas. I say, forget the speed pass, and bring back the latches on the handles that auto-shut-off when the tank is full, so I don't have to stand out in the cold while the gas is pumping. That would be a lot more convenient than taking the fastest part of the transaction and making it a little bit faster.
as everybody wears their watch on their left hand it wont get the christians riled up... to bad for those southpaws thou... oh wait they are spawn of the devil anyway.
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
Why not have a watch that is able to use all your accounts? It can debit your checking account, your Visa, AmEx, Mastercard, whatever. You'd just have to pick the account first and then type in a PIN or something and the purchase would be made. This would be great at any fast food place, gas place, shopping place, anywhere basically. The PIN would be so that if someone stole your watch they wouldn't be able to just wave it around and buy everything. I want this now, please...except I don't where a watch...put it in my cel phone. Or just build it into my actual wallet.
Not to mention the fact that you don't technically have to sign for a credit card either. Do you sign anything when you pay at the pump with your credit card?
(sound of crickets)
Yeah, that's what I thought. Even on purchases, you don't always have to sign. What do you sign when you make an internet transaction? If you go to a store, they technically don't have to make you sign something if it is under a certain dollar amount (can't remember offhand what it is).
Personally, I don't use a Speedpass because I don't always go to Mobil. If I had one, I would probably always go to them, and I refuse to be controlled by their clever, evil marketing ideas. :-)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
"This wristwatch has a built-in high-powered laser. It will allow foreign governments to track you everywhere you go!"
"Uhhhmmm... thank you, Q...."
Ahhh right, unlike using your credit card.
Hang on... no... they save that data as well. Guess it's back to the drawing board then.
Most of my time at the station is spent standing by my car pumping gas. I say, forget the speed pass, and bring back the latches on the handles that auto-shut-off when the tank is full, so I don't have to stand out in the cold while the gas is pumping. That would be a lot more convenient than taking the fastest part of the transaction and making it a little bit faster.
they got rid of those? never seen a pump that didn't have 'em. I don't trust them to click off, but they do if I forget about it. if they really wanted to make it simpler they should develop robotics that automatically find your gas tank and fill it up, but something tells me that's way too expensive to be feasable, at least right now. then they could have a speedpass device or a swiper that came up to your window. or, you could just go to full service; they do exist still.
mrg
charlie brown, or don't and just continue to be a sheep. Your CC doesn't have the ability and the means to monitor your actions beyond the use of the card. I use speed pass, I leave it in the glove box unless I am coming to the bridge and it won't read from there. If it was a watch I'd or I was required to carry it I would not have one, there is NO PRIVACY protection for everywhere else you go and everything else you buy, so YOU don't have anything to hide, why do you protect you financial statements, or your particular bent in adult entertainment, oh yeah that video you bought is linked with the DB that also monitors the rfid stations that track rfid locator tags,just for info sake :) I agree the watch itself is just a thing, but the mechanism to monitor your every action is bening placed and most people just gaze at it like a cow at a passing train...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
"Also, they call you when they detect unusual activity."
If it's so cold where you live that you are willing to accept yet ANOTHER monitor placed on your life, fine. Just don't assume it's a complete non-issue for everyone though.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
... I keep wanting to go back to using CASH for everything.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
My father works for Shell, and I remember him telling me about the robotic fill-up system they'd developed a few years back. Although he wasn't terribly forthcoming with the nitty-gritty details, I imagine it simply operated based on a database of your cars' particular measurements coupled with a few at-the-pump IR measurements to fine adjust. The coolest part of the system was when he told me that it could fill an entire 15-gallon tank in (I believe) a little under a minute when coupled with an RF payment system.
But they couldn't use it, because there are federal regulations governing the pressure allowed on a gas pump. Not for safety reasons relating to the car, but so that the jack-holes that try to top-off their tanks can't send a boatload of gas spewing out in all directions. The system was well past prototype stage, as result, because they were trying to convince whatever governing body (EPA, probably) that, "hey, this is a robot! It doesn't try to top-off. The pressure regulation is kind of pointless in this situation."
Unfortunately, nothing ever came of it, and so Shell's newly re-done stations simply have the highest pressure allowed by the regulations.
some locations in Chicago you can also use it at McDonald's
I wonder if that includes the Rock and Roll McDonalds?
McDonalds is the place to rock
It is a restaurant where they buy food to eat
It is a good place to listen to the music
People flock here to get down to the rock music
RIP, Wesley Willis
it's funny to me how all of this crap is so irrelevant to my life. i have no bank accounts, no credit cards, no speedpasses, no debit cards, no nothing. i use cash, and that's it.
i don't even own a personal computer, at the moment.
i have a minivan, a wallet, and a mind and body free of govt/corporate interference.
(i do have an IRA, however i gave them a non-existent address)
I find it interesting that at least at most places near me one can't use a credit card to pay at McDonald's (much to my annoyance), and yet now they're trying to allow one to pay with a watch?!
I don't try to be right, I just try to make people think
It's my understanding that the best kind of security is physical security. i.e. Don't put your credit card out over the air...even if it is only six inches.
Though you may have a point there. I guess I don't see RFID being any less secure, than, say, the internet. And I'm sure as hell not going to stop using Amazon.
...it would only be valid for one tank of gas, making it a very expensive tank of gasoline for a would-be criminal.
1/14/2004 - Sca.|\| Enskamu Svcs - $8.69
Multiply by the number of people walking by, filter so that you don't nail people more than once a week. Hell, I could a transponder+wireless gateway that did that via an internet payment gateway.
Not that I would of course.
Hammer of Truth
It's different because your RFID tags can be scanned and tracked without your knowledge.
People generally have to make a conscious effort to share their credit card number, whereas every vending machine, mailbox, computer, or person you walk past could be scanning and recording your location based on your RFID tag whether you like it or not.
lothar> Acquired Item: Watch of Speed
lothar> examines watch of speed
Timex Watch of Speed
Created by The Brotherhood of Invasion of Privacy, this timepiece is simple looking, but has a certain appealing glimmer to it.
Attributes:
Resist Cold: +5
Resist Slow: +5
Allows wearer to cast Magical Transaction
- Donny was a good bowler, and a good man.
It's only a matter of time until someone figures out how to harvest people's Speedpass info off of their watches and hijack their account, just by walking past someone wearing the watch.
Interesting idea and probably one that many, many people will take advantage of.
Now, what about the RFID jamming watch that RSA is working on? I want one of those.
I welcome out new RFID overlords. I can get a large fry!! WOOHOO!!!
Since it requires no manpower (or womanpower) on the part of the oil company now, I'm not sure where you see a labor savings in this. How does it save labor for the gas station to have me swipe a speedpass over a reader Vs. having me put my credit card through a reader and, in some places, enter my zip code on the keypad? It doesn't. It saves some labor for me, though.
What you describe as them "getting the money out of your pocket" faster, I look at as my being able to pay faster and get done faster and get back on the road. You sound like you think you're out something if you can pay faster. Your're not. They get the money anyway, regardless of speed. I see no benefit to me in having to take longer to pay, so give me better speed, thanks.
WRT auto-shutoff, I don't know how things are where you live, but the only time they removed auto-shutoff anywhere in the western United States was when the first-generation vapor recovery systems came out, and they were clunky and just not compatible with auto-shutoff, and there may even have been some regulation against it. However, it's been more than 20 years since I've seen a gas pump without auto-shutoff. I haven't done any long-distance driving in a while, but I remember in the 1980s and probably into the early 1990s that in some rural locations you could even find gas pumps with no vapor recovery system, because they weren't required to have one. No air pollution problem out there. Things may have changed by now, though.
I have a Speedpass, and I find it very useful. I've also used it at McDonald's a few times. The main reason I like this is that I have my Speedpass connected to a credit card with a rewards program. I don't eat at McDonald's too often, but it's nice to know I get 1% (better than nothing) back when I make purchases there. And before you jump to conclusions, I pay off my balances every month, so I'm not paying any interest, just earning rewards.
One interesting thing over the holidays... I used my Speedpass to pick up a tasty McDonald's breakfast one day, and they actually asked me to sign a copy of my receipt. This seemed odd and against the spirit of Speedpass (speed, duh). I asked the manager about this, paranoid that something was going on. It turns out that there had been some Speedpasses stolen in the area, and they were using the signatures as an extra layer of protection. Not very effective, of course, but I just thought it was kind of interesting.
Oh, and there is no information about you or your Speedpass printed on the receipts from McDonalds (as far as I can tell), for those who might actually care (like 5 people).
Anyway, in this day and age, everyone really should check their statements every month to look out for suspicious charges. In the one or two cases this has happened to me over the years, my credit card companies have always been very cooperative about clearing up any mistakes or inconsistencies.
If all you have are silver bullets, everything looks like a werewolf.
You'd just walk into any store or restaurant you like, and take whatever you want.
This could cause a greater disconnect between the mentalities of the rich and the poor.
That's fucking moron SIR to you. RFID has more than your Mom told you.
For making purchases, wouldn't it just be easier to get an RFID chip stamped into either your right hand or your forehead?
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
With my Speedpass Suppository, I just
shake my ass and out comes the gas.
If only If only I had mod points.... they'd be yers
you forgot "commie" in the hippie insult.
Dude, you're reaction to my post is uncalled for. Yes this article generated a lot of heated exchanges, but you're dragging me into this for no known reason. Read my post again, and you'll see that you lashed out at me when really other people are pissing you off. I never made such allegations.
Hey, how about Speedcheckin for my next flight? I really am who it says I am! You can let me check my bags at the curb, I'll wave my Speedcheck watch at the attendant as I board (you'll have my Happy Meal waiting for my in-fright meal) and I won't let my friends Theodore or Muhammed use my watch! Really!
You must be the change you wish to see in the world - Ghandi
Why is it that we would all want one of these merely to save the 15 seconds it takes to use our credit/debit card? Does our privacy mean 'that' little to us? This to me is NOT a cool technology, but a potential danger to our already corroding way of life.
I want a disclaimer on these products, because I want nothing to do with them. I see no real productive need for RFID devices.
Flame me if you wish. I can take it!
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
Where that approach hasn't quite reached c'cards just yet.
Take a pill, jill :)
I thought RFID was evil. Then I remembered that today was Wednesday, and RFID is cool.
The only reason we have the rights we have is that people just like us died to gain those rights. -- Cheerio Boy
Fuck it up the ass and let it know who's in charge. Also, please send pictures of the event to cmdrtaco@slashdot.org. Thanks.
If it's so cold where you live that you are willing to accept yet ANOTHER monitor placed on your life, fine.
How is this another monitor??? They have no more information about you than if you'd used a credit card or debit card. Do you always pay cash for everything, everywhere? No? Then WTF are you being so ignorant for?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
You've obviously never used these passes. You have to hold the tag right next to the receiver for it to activate. Like, physically touching. Even waving it a couple inches above the reader will produce nothing.
So how is a vending machine going to read my tag from 6 feet away? Do you have any idea how much RF noise such a reader would generate, or how much power it would suck down?
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Get a clock embedded in my credit card?
;)
Get a calendar printed on paper currency?
Get a sundial added to Sacagawea dollars?
I can go on....
Edith Keeler Must Die
RFIDs are going to be a fact of life. Not only will it be the corporations that demand it, but the consumers will too. Privacy aside, imagine going to the grocery store, you load up your cart and when you're done, you leave the store without waiting in line to check out. Each item is tallied via rfid and you pay via rfid simply by walking out the door.
The average citizen doesn't care about privacy or rights that they don't use. They also have an average IQ of 100 and wont understand the potential for abuse. Possible solutions include tinfoil body armor, use of chemicals (such as kerosine or strong cologne) to get your IQ below 100, or enjoy the benifits and try to fight the negative parts of advancing tech. Or just be like some and figure that no matter what happens, society will deserve what it gets, be it good or bad.
Now all this thing has to do is monitor your heart-rate as you drive around in an SUV with 5 hamburgers while inhaling the overwhelming scent of gas fumes!
God bless america.
They're just overpriced.
Besides, I generally prefer BP; I remember when 60 Minutes did a story on MTBE, the BP CEO was the only one with the balls to go on record and say that MTBE was a major health risk that they were forced to put into gasoline.
Really sucks to lose your watch now, doesn't it?
I have this entertaining mental image of a Tarantino film. In a robbery (car jacking?) gone wrong, the victem's arm gets cut off. The perpetrator has it with him as he's driving across the country trying to escape the feds. The victem had a speedpass watch on, and for some reason it's really hard to remove. So rather than spend his own money, the perp just pulls up to the gas pumps and waves a severed limb at the pump before driving off.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
A = A.
The part about 'requires no manpower' is the labor savings. The part about not having to have someone on staff available to swipe your card or take your cash is the labor savings. I have not seen any unattended open-for-business gas stations, but the various pay-at-the-pump devices do reduce the need for staff and overall expenses.
I'm not denying the usefulness of pay-at-the-pump. I like it and prefer stations that have it. My point is, the gas station is giving you a cherry and calling it a pie.
Swiping my card at the pump is quicker then walking into the station and handing to an employee, but the overall affect is minimal. As the customer, most of my time is spent dispensing fuel. While faster and more convenient payment methods do benefit me, they benefit the company more. I would get more use from faster and more convenient ways of getting me my gas.
I'm not cheated or getting less for my money by using pay-at-the-pump, but I recognize this is something the companies do to benefit them. My convenience is happy side affect.
It saves some labor for me, though.
I'm just trying to point out a different way of looking at these things. There was a time you could pull into a gas station and have someone attend to delivering the gas and the monetary transaction. Now (unless you're in New Jersey) you're pumping the gas AND completing payment on your own. How has that change saved you labor? (I'm not knocking it--I prefer to get and out of the station quickly. I'll pump it myself and pay-at-the-pump to avoid waiting for an attendant or standing in line at the cashier, but I don't pretend I'm saving labor while doing all the work. =)
Doesn't this product position RFID as the American chipcards, but without the mechanical interface required in Europe? Has the chipcard improved your life in Europe? What should we Americans learn from your realworld experience?
--
make install -not war
My watch, or my wallet?
A watch is dependent on smallish pins strapped on my wrist. In theory, it's strapped there, should be pretty stable, but never the less... i've lost a few watches in the past.. three somewhat fancy digital watches, and a couple of analog ones.
A wallet kinda hangs out in my pocket... open at the top, dependent on resistance and being upright to remain there. Never the less... I've only lost a wallet once. I got all the cards back via US postal serverice who collected a small sum upon delivery... but the wallet it self and the cash were gone.
I've found wallets and such from time to time... always taken the time to find the owner, or at least bring it to the clerk at a store if I was pressed for time. My track record for taking the time to return the wallet to the owner it self is 100% due to the verbose amount of contact info within... but now I think about it, these were mostly purses at costco and I don't think they count.
I've found many more watches. I would think "oh pretty neet watch".... try to find the owner, but it being difficult as they typicaly are not enscribed with the owner's name. I think I've successfully returned one watch to the owner. What can you do besides taking an ad out in the paper and giving up after a year, and giving it to a friend who just lost their watch.
Based on my track record... my wallet wins as far as items most likely to be secured to my person. Your milage my vary, but my vote for anything that contains currency would be the traditional wallet.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
I'd like my RFID watch to include a directory of those parties with read permission, those barred from reading, and the rest subject to my clicking "OK" to read once. I'd also like an auditable trail of readers, ideally with onetime passwords for tracking the info they read. I don't think static RFID can support all that, but perhaps a dynamic RFID label, settable (and encrypted) by logic on the watch once reading is cleared, is a useable hybrid.
--
make install -not war
I made my own 2 years ago.
I simply ground down my speedpass dongle until I got to the thickness I desired and then ground down the sides for length. Then after I broke that one, I did it to the second one knowing what to expect and called in the first one as lost.
I then superglued it inside the leather band of my watch.
really simple and sounds like the exact same thing they did.
NOTE: record your speedpass numbers and keep them in a safe place when you need to report it lost/stolen.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
And if every store were employing handwriting analysis experts, who had hours to study these signatures, that might be true. As it is, stores hire high-schoolers (and too few at that), so they don't have time.
It's much easier to fake a signature well enough to get it past a sales clerk than to fake an ID to pass same.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
yeah, i know there are some stations that don't have these or have had them broken off, i just don't use those stations anymore.
of course as i get "older", i tend to have enough of a regular routine that i generally only fill up at one of two gas stations. either the one near work or the one near home.
this is just a placeholder till i send back my real sig from the future.
It's not that present that worries me it's the future. The more ubiquitous RFID is, the more people will be conditioned to tolerate it, especially young people who grow up seeing it as the norm. Then when corporations start implanting them in shoes or whatever, no one will complain. This is all part of a very frightening trend towards the creation of an omnipresent surveillance state. Consider:
1) More and more surveillance cameras being installed every day.
2) Cell phones that track location. Consider that the number of available pay phones is expected to start dropping. The number has already started to drop dramatically in Hong Kong.
3) Ez-pass
4) Michilin's plan to put RFID tags in tires
5) GPS systems in cars
6) black boxes in cars
etc.
IN some of these cases there is choice, but in many cases there is not. The strategy seems to be to create many possible tracking systems at least one of which will capture each person.
A step up from rfid are smart chips, essentially very small computers. Europe has been using car-based versions for years for everything. I heard Sun micro once gave employees the option of smartchip rings with the functionality of employee pass cards. 24/7 jewelry like watches, glasses, rings, etc. are good places to put these.
According to a radio news story, you can not only use the watch to buy gas, but at some locations in Chicago you can also use it at McDonald's.
Hmm, so with a simple button press, I can aid the both the oil and gas industry, and McDonalds.
I don't think that's quite enough: could we add an option to make a micropayment to McDonnell-Douglas, Coke, and (oh what the hell) the U.S. Department of Homeland Security while we're at it?
Mail? Put "slashdot" in the subject to pass the spam filters.
So, if I want my McDonalds food to be served faster, all I have to do is make a quick stop in Chicago? Yes!
Yes there is. Does this watch only reveal its ID when you consent or could any sensor you happen to pass pick up your ID? Is that ID tied to your personal details in some way? Are those personal details likely to be sold? Are you likely to hang onto a $50 watch for a considerable period of time?
If the answer to any of these is 'yes'. Then there are most certainly privacy issues. If some lousy fast food chain can read your details you can bet anyone else could too, without your permission. How long before it's collated? Perhaps you walked past an adult store once and now they're sending you their rubberwear catalogue. Maybe Albertsons will set up an unobtrusive looking van at the entrance of a Safeway which listens to see who is buying groceries there. Perhaps you'll get unsolicited calls from holiday firms who detected you standing in front of a picture of Hawaii in the mall. Perhaps casinos will begin adjusting the minimum table bets based on who's standing around and their self control. You get the idea.
It would be different if you had to push and hold a button to enable the chip, thereby restricting its use. In that scenario the privacy implications are the same as for a credit card. But if it's 'always on' I would suggest it has enormous privacy implications.
Actually, it is a privacy issue (probably not a bad one in this exact case, but I'm taking the other side for a minute in the more general argument). So you choose it? So what? Just like other things that take your rights away, it doesn't have to be a wrenching grab. It could be like trying to get the air ratchet away from a small child... give them something to distract them (oooo... shiny!), and take the dangerous tool ('rights', to clarify the metaphor) away and they'll hardly notice it's gone... Lately the shiny thing has been 'security' (or at least the illusion thereof)
I'm not shy, I'm stalking my prey
My only problem with RFID's is that there is not customre control on turning it on and off. It is either on all the time or controled by other devices. How long until someone figures out a way to start capturing the info from these wonderful little transmitters and cloning devices like they do with cell phones.
Until they have RFID devices that I can turn on and off on my own, I will never ever have one attached to any financial information of mine.
FROG: "is it getting warmer in here? nah, must be my imagination."
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Build an RFID Speedpass-charging reception watch and attach it to the hacked cellphone in your pocket to connect to the Speedpass merchant network.
Next shake hands with as MANY people as you can before cashing it all and heading to Mexico.
A lotta empty cars will be abandoned at a lotta gas stations with their owners on busses heading for banks.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I don't know how gas stations work where you're at, but around here (California), there's no one to do that anyway. All pumps have a card reader on them, and have for years. The gas station typically only has one person on duty, who sits in a bulletproof glass booth and takes money from people who pay cash or have a problem with the card reader, and looks after the gas station. This person is also responsible for things like emergency shutoff in case of fire, etc. That one person is never going to go away, and speedpass won't change that. Thus, there is zero labor savings for the gas station.
There is labor savings for a person with speedpass watch - they don't have to fish their card from their wallet on a cold day, as many have noted.
Self-pumping doesn't save labor, but it does save money. The reason a full-service gas station is so hard to find these days is because few people are willing to pay the extra price to have the gas pumped for them. I can sit in my car while the gas pumps even if I'm doing it myself, but the only thing that would save me labor is that robotic system Shell was working on that someone else wrote about, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to come to a Shell station near me.
The Speedpass(TM) we're talking about here is a small chip with a unique number that can be read from a short (on the order of a few inches) range.
I have a Speedpass. It's number is 873953826583 (warning: fake number). When I pull into an Esso, I wave my Speedpass over the reader. It has to be within 2 inches for it to read the chip. When it does, the pump says to itself "Speedpass 873953826583 is trying to buy gas." It then performs a
SELECT CREDIT_CARD_NUMBER, EXP_DATE FROM CUSTOMERS WHERE SP_ID = '873953826583'
on Esso's central registered Speedpass customer database. If the result is an empty result set, then the transaction is rejected. However, if a result comes back, then the system calls up the appropriate credit vendor (Visa, Amex, whatever) and asks "I wish to pre-charge $75 onto the card with number ____ and expiry date ____. Do you authorize?" If the credit card's system answers "yes," then the pump is activated, and the user is free to pump gas. Otherwise, the transaction is declined, and the user must walk into the store to pay for their gas.
Now, keep in mind that the ONLY information in that chip, in that Speedpass, was a number. Specifically, the number 873953826583. No name, no credit card info, no address, no spending habits. Nothing but a number.
Now, to return to your ridiculous example, say that I did walk past an Adult Video store, and for some reason, they did have one of those non-existent RFID readers that can read these tags from several feet away, and can distinguish my Speedpass from anyone else's who happens to be walking by, what info does that store get? They get the number 873953826583. What good is that number to them? Absolutely none at all. Why? Because they don't have access to Esso/Exxon's database, so they can't link that number to any of my personal info.
Is any of this making sense to you? RFIDs are just a NUMBER. Nothing else! Without the database, the number itself is useless. In order for some sinister data-mining to occur, all these companies would have to collaborate and share access to their private, proprietary, confidential databases. An act which is illegal now, by the way, at least in Canada, thanks to new legislation. Now, even if it weren't illegal, and companies wanted to do it, why would they need the RFID tags to make this happen? They could ALREADY be sharing all that personal info that they already have. Do you think Walmart has access to the database at my local video store? Do you think Walmart knows what DVDs I like to rent, so they can send me their flier when the "Matrix" box set comes out? Do you think the grocery store knows I just bought a new George Foreman Grill from The Bay, so they can send me their meat flier?
I suppose they could, but presently they're not, it would be illegal to do so, and the whole question of RFIDs is a red herring anyway since they're irrelevant to such a data-mining and sharing arrangment.
</RANT>
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
As for the RFID being too weak to read, that really depends on the 'reader' that emits the radio signal that the RFID responds to. Emit a stronger signal and you'll pick up RFIDs further away - as you walk through a door way for example, or just by standing at the checkout counter, or as you walk past a store front or even 100 feet away. Short of leaving the keychain / watch / whatever containing your speedpass at home (and thus rendering it useless) you can be detected simply by being in the general vicinity of a reader.
Even if Speedpass had a cast iron privacy policy (which it doesn't). What's to stop someone simply reading your RFID when you make a purchase with your credit card? It's easy - set up a reader by the cash register (which some stores intend on doing anyway) and wait for you to hand over your credit card or store card and bang - your speedpass and details have now been associated. A few database collations later and your name, address and speedpass number are being passed around to who knows who.
It's not far fetched - the technology is already there. Give the market a few more years and the dots will all be joined. So yes there are privacy issues.
Oh wow! I mean Speedpass is so amazing! It's so hard and time consuming to take out my wallet, get out my credit card card, swipe it and put it back in my wallet and into my pocket. This could save me upwards of *5* seconds a week! Just think of time saved over a year! The possibilities are endless!
...
.
Why don't you just jack an IV of Crisco into your fucking arm?
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
It's ANOTHER entity (the fob people) doing the monitoring from what the original poster said. If not, then fine, whatever. And yes I do use cash as much as possible, precisely because I do not want other people second guessing my PRIVATE activities and using my own actions against me in the form of targeted advertising and consumer profiling. WTF are YOU being so ignorant for? Convenience apparently.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
How exactly was this a troll? Because you disagree with it? You will be meta-modded.
I'm not and wasn't pissed. Simply pointing out that while you may have valid reasons for thinking this is a good thing all around, you mentioned in passing one of the primary reasons why I think it's a bad idea to have more and more things automatically reporting your activities to third parties. There was a story on here about a similar system to this and somebody had their card shut off without being notified due to precisely this kind of monitoring/profiling. It's not worth it to me to take on yet another monitoring agency for the sake of a very minor convenience. And if it's so damn cold where you are that it is worth it, then FINE! :) Everybody seemed to be claiming that there was NO issue here at all, which clearly there is.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
we can just walk past a McDonalds drive-thru and hear "Sod off, you're too fat!"?
...and he grinned, like a fox eating shit out of a wire brush.
Yeah, so that's what geeks need... more Mcdonalds.... right....
640YB ought to be enough for anybody.
Remember to ask that next time at the pump maybe you'll get someone to fall for it and pay the bill for you.
True geeks prefer watches with a far niftier feature. Sure, you might be able to pay for gas with your watch, but mine's about as accurate as my GPS receiver!
Cool, now we can all accurately track how long it took to clean up the Exxon Valdez oil spill.
Next up, the Enron / HP Calculator
Hey......
Meeestir
Wanna buy a watch?
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
All of the scenarios you describe about companies sharing or obtaining information about you for advertising purposes (or worse) involve either hacking into Mobil's database once they have the number (illegal!) or colluding with other companies (also illegal!). Or maybe Speedpass (read: Exxon Mobil Corp., the largest US oil company) will go out of business and sell their member database. I doubt it.
The Speedpass is JUST A NUMBER. If a store nabs your credit card information and your Speedpass number with the intent of selling it, why would they need your damn Speedpass number? They could do just as much damage with the credit card number alone. And how often to retailers sell their customers' credit card information? Never, unless you're shopping online at The Fetish Shack. No information-selling company is going to gain anything by getting your Speedpass number. It's meaningless without Mobil's database, and they'd either have to hack into it, or have a contract with Mobil (which I doubt any shady retailer has). And Mobil's database has ALL the Speedpass numbers. The hackers wouldn't need yours.
There is only one instance I can think of where people could abuse your Speedpass number. They could build a device to scan for Speedpass numbers and walk around the street collecting them. Then they could build their own RFID device, with the number they stole, and buy gas with it. Since they wouldn't have your personal information, they couldn't change your account settings or get cash from it. They could only purchase things from Speedpass-enabled stores. And once you (or Mobil) saw the strange charges on your account, the number would be disabled, and you would be issued a new one. You are FAR more likely to have your credit card stolen by Hank's House of Horny online than you are for someone to abuse your Speedpass.
My point here is that there is not some huge corporate conspiracy to track your every move and report it to some greasy spammer. Will you stop using built-in sprinklers because someone could know your watering habits? Will you stop subscribing to magazines because Time Warner now knows where you live? Will you never use a bank account because your bank needs to know your Social Security number? Stop pretending every company is out to get you.
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In Hong Kong, I can use my RFID enabled watch to pay for most forms of local trasportation (rail, bus, boat), buy anything at 7-11, Circle K, grocery stores, and at many other food places, including McD and KFC. The best thing is that it is a debit system, so it is completely anonymous, unless you choose to connect it to a credit card. The re-filling stations are located at most places that you use it (you can buy your groceries and also re-fill your Octopus). See www.junghans-systems.com and http://www.octopus.com.hk/eng/index.jsp
Now I'll have to wear two watches! I mean, how could any body survive without a Timex Internet Messenger. Oh well, I guess it doesn't look too nerdy to wear two watches, right? Hey! I could have two timers then! Or 6 alarms! Or 4 timezones! The possibilities are endless.
People generally have to make a conscious effort to share their credit card number
Unless you eat at restaurants, then it take you no conscious effort at all.
Well that's a relief eh!
The revolution will NOT be televised.
Love your photographs!
The problem with these watches is that the RFID-chip is integrated in the watch. The style and functionality of these watches is not what i want in my watch. Why doesn't Exxon/times make a little 'thingy' i can clip to the wristband ? I can wear different watches and just connect the chip to it. I then have the watch i want and the benefits (and lack of privacy) of the RFID-chip.
....Excuse me, but
I'm just pointing out how totally wrong you are when you state there are no privacy issues. And these are just examples I thought up on the spot. Read cryptogram or comp.risks in a few years and you'll no doubt see real world examples.
If you had stepped back and thought about it even for a second you would have realized that for yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth.
Yet every scenario you describe involves respected companies (Mobil, Harrah's, Safeway, etc.) carrying out highly illegal collusion or surveillance activities. That sounds fairly paranoid to me.
All I'm trying to say here is that there are no privacy issues unique to Speedpass. Since the number is useless without the database, anyone wishing to gain your personal information would have to either hack into the database or purchase it illegally from a company with access. In either case, they don't need the number at all, once they have the database. This makes Speedpass no more of a privacy issue than any credit card. These shadowy figures you describe could do the same things with a Visa database.
No system of monetary transfer is without SOME privacy issues. Hell, I could lift fingerprints from your cash and trace your purchases, if I wanted to. But reasonable people take a look at the statistics and conclude that the risk is acceptable for them to get on with their lives. There is no such thing as zero risk, and when the numbers get small enough, the system can be declared safe. So in that sense, no, I don't think there are privacy issues with the Speedpass. I think it's a sound system of convenient payment. If you feel that the risks of such convenience are too high for you, then fine. Feel free to use one of many other forms of payment. But don't start crying wolf about systems that are perfectly acceptable and considered safe by the vast majority of the population, including the system's designers and operators.
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