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Music Industry Loses In Canadian Downloading Case
pref writes "'Canada's music industry can't force Internet service providers to identify online music sharers, a Federal Court judge has ruled.' They wanted the Internet service companies like Sympatico, Rogers and Shaw to give them the real identities of the individuals so they could sue them for copyright infringement. They were seeking a court order requiring the companies to provide the information. But they didn't get it, so the Internet companies don't have to identify their clients and the music companies can't proceed with their lawsuits.""
Of course Canada, a socialist country harboring terrorists, would have a judge corrupt enough to *not* allow the law to break down the doors (and backs) of pirates. The whole country is a cesspool of leftist anti-american pot smoking jocks. Half their salaries taxed and for what? Medicare, Infrastructure, Social Programs, and Freedom? Give me some good old fashioned blatant class differences based on race any day of the week. We need to buckle down and attack these northern communists ASAP. Axis of evil anyone? Downloading music is the first step to the downfall of America, we must stop them at all costs. I have a gun and i'm on my way!
A better CAPTCHA solution?
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Saturday February 07, @10:22PM
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Hooray for Canada.
Wait... Which country was the 'Land of the Free' again?
Putting the romance back into necromancer.
I was hoping to get sued in Canada instead of the States. After the exchange rate, I was hoping to pay about $0.78 per song, beating the iTunes price!! :)
Comprehensive health care, weed is basically legal, and the music industry has lost!?!?! Why do we pick on Canada again?
I think I know what country I'll go to college in now.
So, it is now legal to download music, since they can't prosecute you? So can I download from a Canadian server? If a canadian downloads from me, is it ok? Or is this just another ruling that the music industry will find a way around?
Karma: Can there be a void?
.. -. - . .-. .-. --- -...
Dion or no Dion - I'm moving to Canada :D
- Mad, ingenous - they've both left you puzzled -
C'mon you Slashdotters in .ca, how about setting up some anon HTTP proxies so that the rest of us can download freely? Your ISP logs can't be subpoenad, so we can all download stuff via your pipes, and the Evil Record Companies can't do anything!!!
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Nice to see privacy winning one for a change.
Now if we can get the U.S. Supreme court to rule the same way.
After all, they've been using foreign court rulings more and more recently.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Downloading Music. What's it all about? Is it good, or is it whack?
Glad to see that this can be faught somewhere. Really though, the question is... How long can Canada do this before they get pressured to follow in their oppressive neighbors' lead?
;)
I wouldn't rejoice too quickly, but it's nice to see.
P.S. Eat it RIAA!
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
What is to stop them from suing the IP number and using the court case as a means to identify the user? Didn't the RIAA have to take that aproach after losing a similair lawsuit ?
The Surgeon General says sigs are bad for me.
"Until then, Canadian online music traders are free to keep swapping songs, Akin said."
Um, but aren't they facing the chance of being sued anyway? So yes, you can go back to swapping songs, since nobody has been sued YET - but that doesn't mean you aren't leaving yourself open to it when they get their act together.
The Toronto Star has the story as well.
As an American living in Canada, I feel good about this. The main benefit from living in Canada I've found so far is just a lower stress level. The people at the wheel seem saner, more composed and less twitchy, it doesn't seem as absolutely imperative to pay attention the news, that sort of thing.
Stuff like this only helps.
Everything seemed to be going so nice
'till the end of all beings punched right through the ice
Too bad for the R I Eh Eh, Eh?
yet ANOTHER reason to move to Canada.... aigh
The Toronto Star ( http://thestar.com ) has an article on their front page as well.
Another Source
This ruling not only means that the CIRA can't get user information from the ISPs, but that file swapping in Canada does not even infringe on copyright - it's completely legal.
If you're Canadian, that means a big weight off your shoulders, for now.
i thought the mounties rode around on horses...
MY SECRET DIARIES
It's not a "downloading" case, it's an "uploading" (distribution) case. Downloading is legal in Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/03/31/canada/downlo ad_court040331
Contains a few links to older information about the story and whatnot.
~jaraxle
So this is what happens when you have tech-literate judges! Where can we get some from?
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
Looks like the blank media tax shinces through. Even though I own all the music I listen to, and use DVD-RWs for weekly server backups, it seems if I wanted to, I can download music without fear! Thanks Courts!
Taking a look at the history in the US with the RIAA I highly doubt we have seen the last of this. The biggest problem the RIAA faces with Canada is they are already getting royalties for every blank CDs purchased and therefore only have legal grounds to sue people who share and cannot touch those who simply download the music. But hey i'm no lawyer so what do I know :)
wow! i can get married AND trade music files?? WOOOT! I'm moving to canada!
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Checkout CBC's Article for another view of the story.
Please check your gun at the border.
-- Linux Consultant
First we had long haired hippie US draft dodgers, now with this we'll be host to a bunch of greasy haired, geeky RIAA dodgers
The music industry must realize that sticking it to the common joe is not going to improve their revenue, the music industry is sinking in repetitive patterns and always looking for the easy buck.
The music industry must recognize the depression the world is in these times, when a good bunch of the population only have McJobs you can't espect them to have the adquisitive power to buy any crap you throw at them.
In a related article from canoe.ca , the judge was qoute as saying,"I cannot see a real difference between a library that places a photocopy machine in a room full of copyrighted material and a computer user that places a personal copy on a shared directory linked to a P2P service,"
Doesn't this analogy actually make more sense, than alot of the analogies to "theft" that the record industry has thrown out?
On the other hand, it may not be that valid, because to actually photocopy an entire book would be prohibatively expensive. Where as with P2P whether you download an entire album or just one song its the same cost. Free.
The Canadian Press version of the story really slaps it to the record industry. Quite a different focus to it. Have to read all ofthem and boil them down to get the real facts.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Two other newsfeeds are carrying the story as well -- both say essentially the same thing, but CBC has some related stories that may be worth reading: The Toronto Star and CBC
IANAL, but I believe this comes from the quirk in Canadian law that you may make copies of something for yourself quite legally, just not for others. Since the people sharing aren't making the copies, it's legal.
Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
At least it wasn't for the right reasons.
It was just that they couldn't prove that any crimes had been committed. Which may stick or may not stick, who knows?
The reason why they should lose bigtime, is that the precident that would be set, that a corporation can compel the identify of anonymous actors, would be a very negative one for general freedom.
Think of a corporation could find out who posted a negative (but truthful) review of a book on Amazon, for example, then they could jump on you with both feet, with a SLAPP like suit.
Not good.
It is LEGAL to download music in Canada, because they mark us as pirates at birth and we pay a levy on all storage media purchased, on the assumption it will be used for music piracy. (Is the levy given to artists? who knows?!
So the Canadian law has been changed to make it legal to download music, since we're paying for it.
Uploading (sharing) is illegal here, but now its probably a lot harder to find someone.
Smegma.
So now we just wait for someone to sell VPN tunnels from your pc that exits in Canada. :D
Other Downloading Means:
Mirc, edonkey, bit Torrent .. and the list continues..
Have a good one
It isn't clear what the real impact of this decision is. If you read the article, it quotes lawyers as saying that the music industry prepared a sloppy case and that it can always try again. It may only be a temporary victory. But at least it sounds like the Canadian courts are requiring a higher standard of evidence of infringement than the US courts are.
with all the taxes we pay i woudent be able to pay off a lawsuit and eat in the same month ...
my luck they would have thrown the 15% tax on the lawsuit to ....
oh well back to downloading and uploading my mp3's with out fear of lawsuit ... for now
Chaos, Panic & Disorder - my work here is done.
Eat it CRIA!
Glad to see Canadians, in this one small space at least, are getting justice for once!
First off, I'm surprised but elated that the Judge seems to have been technically competent enough to see this. However, downloaders be warned: the music industry will now proceed to actually participate in copyright infringement by downloading those shared songs or otherwise monitoring the downloads of those shared songs. The "my songs are shared out but were not actually downloaded" argument might not work next time.
Specifically, he said:
To me, this sounds like he's saying that standard P2P file sharing is not copyright infringement. It sounds like as long don't actively upload the file to someone else, or personally authorize them to download it from you, then its OK.
Atheism is a religion to the same extent that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
In that case you might be the one breaking the law. Where I live, any ISP is required by law to keep such logs for at least a month.
HAND.
you can thank us whenever you want! :)
And Then I got flamed because in Canada we pay excise tax on CDs (and soon to be other recording media) because they can potentially be used for pirating copyrighted works. I totally agree with that law. The money goes to the recording industry (I think) and everyone is fairly content with the deal. (besides, it's only a few bucks and it seems fair enough to me. Yeah, i know, majority of the people use the CDs for legit purposes, blah blah blah).
-I DDoSed your mom.
it's because it's on a technicality about "insufficient information."
What's wrong with the CRIA obtaining subpoenas against people that they can positively identify as file uploaders of the member companies' copyrighted material? It's not outrageously hard to have somebody at minimum wage sit behind a terminal and try to download music from Canadian ip addresses. And once you have that, it's a known act of copyright infringement anyway, which as we all know, is illegal.
I don't condone the recording industry's stance and think they should be looking to leverage the technology instead of fighting against it, but they do have the legal right to demand information on people that they have reasonable evidence of illegal activity on. Let them sue the people that upload, not people that use the technology that could either upload or not.
Besides, I'm not sure we want the ISPs to take on the role of gatekeeper either. This is a legal liability on ISPs and the costs of that will be borne by the end-user.
Doing the Right Thing should not be preempted by making a buck.
In case you're tired of living in a freedom-loving dictatorship, here's how to apply as a skilled worker immigrant to Canada: :)
(Wouldn't I be surprized if someone actually takes it...)
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/how-1.html
It seemed relavant
The opinons expressed are those of the voices in the author's head and are not necessarily those of the author.
He compared the action to a photocopy machine in a library. "I cannot see a real difference between a library that places a photocopy machine in a room full of copyrighted material and a computer user that places a personal copy on a shared directory linked to a P2P service," he said.
Besides, the IP changes, and the ISPs *don't* have to divulge who had the IP at any given time. Kind of hard to sue in that case...
Shaw protects their customers from more than the RIAA. They also don't listen to email abuse reports. Maybe all those music downloaders are the same folks selling cheap copies of MS Office.
I blocked 71 of these last week:
Mar 31 12:58:44 mailrouter sendmail[20206]: i2VHwh020206: ruleset=check_relay, arg1=h68-145-125-78.cg.shawcable.net, arg2=68.145.125.78, relay=h68-145-125-78.cg.shawcable.net [68.145.125.78], reject=550 5.7.1
Access denied
Reading the story, we see that this is indeed the case. The ISPs weren't compelled to release the IDs because the music companies had not shown sufficient evidence that a copyright violation had occured. If they had shown sufficient evidence, the ISPs probably would have had to cough up the names.
I've been saying for a while in comments here on /. that leaving an open share (what the CRIA would refer to as uploading) would not necessarily constitute copyright infringement.
According to the Globe and Mail, the judge stated ""The mere fact of placing a copy on a shared directory in a computer where that copy can be accessed via a P2P service does not amount to distribution"
This is a huge win for the Canadian public if it stands on appeal as Canadians will be legally able to download, and to have music available in shared directories, allowing both uploading and downloading.
I'm moving.. that's all there is to it...
where do I pick up my moose antlers?
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Does this ruling mean that personal-use copies of software is also legal to share in a P2P-connected folder?
Well, it'd be funny if the Canadian Music Industry did proceed with the lawsuits some how without the true identities of the music pirates.
..." - Lawyer
"I refer to the case of the Canadian Music Industry VS iPwnsJ00-1337
"There is no spoon." - The Matrix
The real ruling is that simply putting the mp3 files into a shared directory (via a P2P) is not copyright infringement - that goes under personal use. IANAL, and I haven't read the text of the ruling, but to make a call like that probably requires the judges to create a for deciding whether or not something is personal use or copyright infringement.
So now, we have to find where the line is:
- Financial gain - This would invalidate the GPL and add fuel to the fire for SCO v. IBM. It seems that the core of their argument against the GPL is that it is "harmful" because it isn't made for financial gain. We can't have anything adding legitimacy to their farcical arguments
- Active distribution - perhaps the argument is that making a file available is different from giving a file to a person in the same way that unplugging a person's life support is different from injecting poison into their veins. Now everything distributed on the web is no longer protected by copyright which also would invalidate the GPL as I know of no GPL program that has its initial method of distribution being anything other than making it available for download from the web.
So, where is the line? What does a person have to do to infringe copyright these days?- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
Looks like it's not so bad to be Canadian. Except for the fact that our parliament igloo is melting..
http://nng.audiodragon.net
I'm truly proud to be Canadian today... Oh, except for that tax on media ..
Oh, and Celine Dion. Yeah... sorry about that.
IP Therefore I am.
First of all, I'm downloading my albums through bittorrent, so it's not like I'm hosting thousands of files on kazaa on a permanent basis so they can't bust me for being a major supplier which seems to be the people they're targeting. Second, if they took one look in my house they'd see an enourmous pile of store-bought cds, the majority of which have been bought in the past 5 years and after listening to my downloaded copy. If they check my computer, they would find that for every complete discography of a band I really like (and for many of these own the actual cds already and am working on the rest) they might find 1 lone album from a band I wanted to "try out". I'm your fucking customer and I'm using my downloads to make critical music purchases, so don't try and make me stop or else I will!
Blame Canada!
Not only are there issues with the fact that Canadians pay royalties every time a blank CD is purchased but the RIAA is actually smaller in Canada than Bell for instance (I realise the opposite might be true in the US).
I hear they're going to make 35 percent of piracy be Canadian content as well! Several of my friends have recently had CRTC officials show up with MP3's of Anne Murray - mind you I think he went the easier route and just went to prison....
(The above posting should not be read by the sarcasm challenged. If you are unsure if you are sarcasm challenged, please immediately report to your local comedy club for testing. Do not, repeat, do not take any sarcasm unless able to process it - otherwise grave side effects of confusion, loss of bowel function, and several people pointing and laughing in your general direction may be experienced. At no time operate any kind of humour while unable to process sarcasm. Lock all puns in a safe place and gently croon yourself to sleep in a darkened room. Trust me you'll feel better for it)
In the globe and mail story, they report that the judge declared that *both* copying and sharing are not copyright violation in Canada ... I've been assuming
it was perfectly alright to download files
in Canada (for personal use); now it appears
to be equally ok to share them
see here where it is stated: "As part of his ruling, the judge found that simply downloading a song or having a file available on peer-to-peer software such as Kazaa doesn't constitute copyright infringement."
What's next in Canada? Free ponies?
and our University/College tuitions are much cheaper than the US...
I hate to do this, but where are my fscking mod points when I need them? -_-
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
This is probably obvious, but the reason that they can't sue the ISP's in the US for copyright infringement is that they are protected from the actions of their customers. This is why they are going after the networks (Napster, Kazaa, ...) and the users. Does Canada have similar laws protecting the service providers? If that's the case, as long as the Canooks are around, p2p will have a steady stream of uploaders. I can't wait to go home and download some more Gordon Lightfoot and Anne Murrey. Just kidding, it's nice to see a court system back the privacy of the individual over the media conglomerates interests.
Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
'Cause at least my land is free . . .
So . . . should we setup an express line for Slashdot readers at the local immigration booth?
-- "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars" [Oscar Wilde]
This article is on Canoe. Same story, different info, and much more thorough I think.
There's a great quote from the Judge as well, "I cannot see a real difference between a library that places a photocopy machine in a room full of copyrighted material and a computer user that places a personal copy on a shared directory linked to a P2P service."
- In hell, treason is the work of angels.
They my smoke pot but you smoke crack or is that ass crack. If we were half the country Canada is we would be on our way to real freedom.
Its nice to see some sanity come from north of the 49th parallel cause there sure isn't much of it south of that!
Which is french for "I am Soup"
On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd like to offer an apology to the United States of America. We haven't been getting along very well recently and for that, I am truly sorry.
I'm sorry we called George Bush a moron. He is a moron but, it wasn't nice of us to point it out. If it's any consolation, the fact that he's a moron shouldn't reflect poorly on the people of America. After all it's not like you actually elected him.
I'm sorry about our softwood lumber. Just because we have more trees than you doesn't give us the right to sell you lumber that's cheaper and better than your own.
I'm sorry we beat you in Olympic hockey. In our defense I guess our excuse would be that our team was much, much, much, much better than yours.
I'm sorry we burnt down your white house during the war of 1812. I notice you've rebuilt it! It's Very Nice.
I'm sorry about your beer. I know we had nothing to do with your beer but, we Feel your Pain.
I'm sorry about our waffling on Iraq. I mean, when you're going up against a crazed dictator, you wanna' have your friends by your side. I realize it took more than two years before you guys pitched in against Hitler, but that was
different. Everyone knew he had weapons.
And finally on behalf of all Canadians, I'm sorry that we're constantly apologizing for things in a passive-aggressive way which is really a thinly
veiled criticism. I sincerely hope that you're not upset over this. We've seen what you do to countries you get upset with.
Thank you.
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/ac-ca/pubs/can-con/can_ con.html
If you follow the government link you will see the rules are stated differently. The original link contends that "music" must be Canadian. I'm not sure which is correct but I was under the idea (having worked in a volunteer position in sports broadcasting for a local small radio station) that "up to" 35% of the content played on the radio from 6am to midnight" had to be Canadian.
Anyone who listens to daytime radio can verify that a good portion of it isn't music. I can say that one of the reasons that the radio station covered this live sporting event was so that they could air 3 hours of Canadiana per day. That allowed for 6 fulls hours of free playing. It was my understanding as well that locally produced advertising and the DJ's themselves were considered Canadian content. The link that you gave and the link that I gave are confusing on this.
"In general, 35% of the sound recordings played on a radio station between 6 a.m. and midnight must qualify as "Canadian content" as defined by the MAPL system."
Regardless.....we do have laws that force our radio stations to air Canadian content. This is not in doubt.
Freedom = downloading and not paying for stuff?
Heck, why don't you all go to countrys that don't follow copy right laws. Just think of how free you will be living in China!
thank goodness canada's legal system actually works and keeps its citizens safe from stupid legal campains for money grabs. Its already been proven the money made by the RIAA lawsuits is just used to fund more lawsuits. RIAA Sucks!!!! file sharing helps sell music!!
It is definitely not free for a person who is sitting on a modem with a clock ticking. Not everyone's access is unlimited, not even the broadband (which is often billed for volume, not bandwidth - all right, probably not in the US, but in other countries). Therefore, the analogy is valid: there is not qualitative difference, only quantitative. What if the copy machine in the library ran $.005/page, not $.05? The only way to get rid of the comparison is to declare that as soon as some fixed cost per page is reached, the poor beaten-up Xerox becomes a piracy-enabling device.
I can assure you, the best way to get rid of dragons is to have one of your own.
Well I, for one, just use a good ripper to get all my music. Looks like WinAmp on the network, isn't traceable, is legal (at least from a fair use perspective) and I get up to 2k new songs a day. Screw the RIAA.
I have experienced what you might call a "strained" relationship with my ISP, Aliant. Something to do with PSP software and "thousands of connections?" Anyways, with this decision apparently making it legal to have those thousands of connections, what pretense will their Security division use to threaten me next?
This post was composed with the assistance of Kilkenny. Screw Denmark.
OK, now I'm pissed.
Your options are:
1) lobby the government to make people pay levies on most recordable media, to compensate artists for personal copies of musical works, which is thereafter specifically allowed;
2) sue people for making music available for others to potentially copy for their personal use.
Please choose only ONE option at a time.
Maybe Canada figured it was too much to let them sue. After all, Canadians have to pay tribute to the music industry on a number of media products. So instead of a few lawbreakers being sued, everyone gets screwed by a tax that has no basis in fact to compensate them for their "damages". Some of the
USA-USA-USA-USA #1. Don't like it, let me know and maybe we can liberate your country! Hey, Canada would be a weekend excersize. I bet my pre-teen daughter could defeat them (lots of French up there, they would give up right away).
"In spite of this, Canadian television has yet to produce a domestic hit television series"
oh i guess you missed
anne of green gables (ew but it was mad popular)
trailer park boys
ed the sock
22 minutes
the national
all those rick mercer shows
well thats all i remmber for now, i dont own a tv so its all from memory. not to mention all the quality films that have come out of the NFB, Lions Gate or TVO. some that wont even be touched by US studios. (manufacturing consent, and the corporation come to mind. I think bowling for columbine was released under NFB but i might be wrong).
as for direct TV i had a dish and you can see plenty of them where i live. I only had to take it down when they built a building next to mine that blocked the signal. the RCMP isnt going to waste its time busting people who have dishes, maybe distribution but im sure they are under presure from bell and such to do that. they barely even bust growers unless someone tells them to "get tough on crime" and as everyone knows, stoners are an easy target.
if the RCMP bust people for stealing sat signals and growing weed, and those are the biggest problems, well that isn't very bad now is it?
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
This is the fact that has really gotten under my skin! They want it BOTH ways.
Yours is the winning entry for the stereotype ugly american asshole of the week post.
Well, I, for one, welcome our new downloading overlords.
Seriously, maybe I should move to North Mex^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HCanada. Less psychotic right-wing fundies. And Canadian chicks are hot, they have good beer, and they don't shoot everything that moves on two legs.
blog |
The ruling makes it very clear that you can distribute any material online you want, as long as you're not making money from it personally. The effects of socialism and Christian notions of selfless behavior once again corrupting individual rights to one's creations.
Read the freakin' article. The ruling was based on the lack of evidence presented by the cria. The cria will just "dot their i's and cross their t's", then resubmit the case.
From the ruling, it sounds like you can make anything you want available online, as long as you aren't charging for it, and the poeple downloading are doing so for personal use. I guess that includes cracked software, music, movies, etc.
Vote for Pedro
There should be an mod option called "Predictable"
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
"Blame Canada" !
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I love my country. MP3s and same-sex marriages for all!
She's in Vegas full time. We're further from here than most of you are. (And many of us like it that way. =)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Here are some of the numbers in regards to how much money the Canadian Private Copying Collective has collected in recent years. Over 26 million dollars was collected in 2002.
My gay lover and I are getting married! In addition to alcohol, we're serving pot at the reception! The entertainment is downloaded music and movies! If anyone gets sick, we'll take 'em to emerg for free medical care! And we're only 19! Yay Canada!
It was Colin Mochrie who did it.
"Old man yells at systemd"
the customer who's IP was "24.84.179.98" (see page 11 of the court order).
check out my comic: Essential Tremors
I was thoroughly enjoying reading your reply until my eyes widened in shock from this particular passage:
"... Canadian television has yet to produce a domestic hit television series..."
Much as I'm positive that this statement is a gross misjudgement as far as english-canadian television series goes, I can't say for certain as I'm not aware of exact figures. However, a few french-canadian television series have indeed accrued a sizeable following nationwide: "L'heure J.M.P." consistently garnered over 2 million viewers for each episode, while "La Petite Vie" peaked just shy of 5 Million. An even better example would be the success story behind another series, "Un Gars, Une Fille": not only have the ratings been through the roof since the very first episode (1.7 Million+ viewers), but the rights to the show's premise/concept have been sold to makers in 6 other countries as of last november (France, en Sweden, Greece, Italy, Portugal, and Poland), with at least a dozen others waiting in tow. With only these 3 examples to go on, I'm nevertheless positive that a good many english-canadian series' have been at least as popular, if not more, so don't sell us short just yet!
(P.S. I'm having a difficult time locating the exact Nielsen Rating figures for the aformentionned series. I'll amend a post to this effect as soon as I'm able to find them.)
Actually, the copy machine in the library probably would run closer to 1 cent than 10-20 cents if not for the Cancopy levy...
Course since puretracks came out I am buying more mp3s than downloading them.
Sorry. My bad. If i could edit my post I would!
It does sound like Rick Mercer though, given his "Talking to Americans" series, which is hilarious in its own right.
instead :)
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Can I live in the US and have a Canadian ISP?
I'm in Boise, ID...
1) Would it be worth the long distance charges?
2) Would I be able to get high-speed access?
New defense appearing in court shortly:
Paternity: "Look, once the sperm leave my body I'm not responsible for anything they do."
(2004 FC 488) Decision rendered on March 31, 2004, IN THE MATTER OF BMG Canada Inc. et al v. Jane Doe et al
0 4.pdf
read it here [in pdf]:
http://www.fct-cf.gc.ca/bulletins/whatsnew/T-292-
Fine, wrong word, whatever. I'm not exactly familiar with anyone forcing someone to take their mp3's over P2P, so sharing them would be about as close to uploading as you can get.
It is important to get it right, especially if you live in Canada and plan on sharing music (legally). Upload that song to an FTP or web server somewhere and you've broken the law in Canada. Leave it sitting on your hard drive and open the door for others to download it (via bittorrent or what have you) and you are, apparently, not breaking the law in Canada.
This is important to understand if you're planning on doing something like this. It may seem like a nit-pick, but in an environment where large, dying corporate powers are routinely smashing the little guy's life to smithereans in a belated effort to save their obsolete business models, legal definitions like these are critical. Get it wrong, and you'll find yourself wearing a big fat bullseye inviting those thugs to destroy your financial life.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
The irony is that, in order for the RIAA or whoever to prove that a user downloaded copyrighted material, they'd have to post it themselves to the network -- which, being the copyright holder, would make it legal to download.
Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Apparently, the Federal Court ruled that it is also legal to
Shareshare music files up here to.
From the article on CBC:
Making files available in online, shared directories is within the bounds of Canadian copyright law, von Finckenstein ruled.
The personal copying rules under Section 80 of the Canadian Copyright Act only applies to musical works.
mod parent up
its aboot respect! /* Need more canadian stereotypes*/
its aboot the right to privacy!
its aboot government control over private organisations!
S
bah.
Sure gloat about the War of 1812. Not to mention it was the Brits that burned down the White House, led by Major General Robert Ross. His account reads:
"Judging it of consequence to complete the destruction of the public buildings with the least possible delay, so that the army might retire without loss of time, the following buildings were set fire to and consumed -- the capitol, including the Senate house and House of Representation, the Arsenal, the Dock-Yard, Treasury, War office, President's Palace, Rope-Walk, and the great bridge across the Potewmac."
Of course I'm sure the Canadians played a pivotal role in cheering on the powerful British forces from the sidelines. They also incited Indians against American settlements on the border, God forbid their militia fight their own battles. While the U.S. chose to repel the unfair rule of the British, the Canadians smiled and took it up the ass, only gradually rebelling, with ideas borrowed from the United States. I wonder if the British would have eventually even given Canada sovereignty had the U.S. not weakened and driven them out from most of North America.
look it up
"a group of similar independent companies who join together to control prices and limit competition"
Do they control prices?
Do they limit competition?
Of course they do! They it's a Cartel!
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Are South Park references obligatory yet? They should be...
According to this, if leaving songs in a shared directory is legal, then so would the following: - Leaving the doors to my place of business open and advertising Free Music! - Put out some burners and my CD collection - Sell snacks & drinks & blank CD's at somewhat inflated prices Afterall, I'm only making it easy for others to copy for personal use!
http://www.fct-cf.gc.ca/bulletins/whatsnew/T-292-0 4.pdf
And no doubt Canadian copyright law will eventually be re-written, afterall when you start funding political parties you expect something in return for your investment.
I guess you will discount this proof too, since you cannot get access to the full article without paying. I wonder, do you even realize the irony of your insistence on having FREE proof?
US infant mortality: 6.69 deaths/1,000 live births. Canada: 4.95 deaths/1,000 live births.
> According to this, if leaving songs in a shared directory is legal, then
> so would the following: - Leaving the doors to my place of business open and
> advertising Free Music! - Put out some burners and my CD collection - Sell
> snacks & drinks & blank CD's at somewhat inflated prices Afterall, I'm only
> making it easy for others to copy for personal use!
You may be surprised but according to my understanding of the relevant Canadian laws this is perfectly legal.
Courts HAVE shown a willingness in Canada to consider the fair use rights of the owner of the media, and privacy rights. Canada also lacks ludicrously punitive laws on copyright. We don't have filthy-rich media types to bribe our lawmakers, we have to provide the graft from government coffers. So, expect in the long run a more balanced set of rules than in the USA.
BTW, where'd you get the silly idea that it was actually prohibitively expensive to Xerox a book? Time-consuming, yes... but even back in 1984, at 5 cents per 2-page spread, it was cheaper to copy the 100 or so pages I needed (50x0.05= $2.50) than to buy the University textbook - $40.00 at the time, but probably 2 or 3 times that now. Besides, it was out of print anyway and there was no Amazon.com !
Slashdot circa 2000:
"They shouldn't be suing Napster or Kazaa, they should sue the individual copyright infringers! That is the legal and moral thing to do."
Slashdot circa today:
"Nobody should be suing anybody! I have no good reasons."
It's right there in the title "Liberal Party of Canada
Yeah, and don't forget that the USA PATRIOT ACT is PATRIOTIC too.
I'd rather pay their taxes on media then pay for a CD over here. (US) At least (as far as I know) the tax collected on blank media goes to the artists, correct?
That means that making it easy to copy isn't the same as copying, and is not copyright violation.
All across Canada, from Vancouver to St. John's, Kazaa Lite's hash routine is consuming millions of CPU cycles...
Use this this cute little script to kill the dupes, though you'll still have to audition to find the best bitrate and sound quality.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
That's *so* good! Its just sad that Videotron are such a jerk company, which are probably still willing to collaborate with the CRIA.
Videotron is the cable / ISP division of Quebecor, which sales music records through Archambault and also produce records for its "artistic" reality show, Star Academie. That's why they are so eager to give names to the cria.
They start by imposing us a huge levy on every blank media to cover the copyright and then they would sue us because we infringe copyright???!!!
that would be beyong insulting, the copyrights are paid period, now f*ck off greedy suckers!
Legal to download, sharing isn't a violation. I love this country! See ya all on Kazaa...
------ Will of Iron, Knees of Jello.
This proposed bill will allow a CRTC employee to enter your house WITHOUT a search warrant to see if you're receiving US satellite signals.
Amazing, but true.
I saw something about this on the Politech mailing list. You can see the post Here I do wonder when the RIAA will get Canadian Law changed, thats what a "Free Trade Agreement" is really about.
Be wary of strong drink, it can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss.
This may already have been mentioned, but unlike the States, Canada already has a tax on all recordable media. Long before Napster, the Canadian organization that handles royalties for musicians, SOCAN and the CRIA, lobbied for and succeeded in getting bill C-32, passed into law. I don't recall the year, but we Canadian's have been paying about $2.50 in tax on every 74 minute recordable CD to support musicians, regardless of whether we use those CDs to play mp3s on our DVD players or to copy software or whatever. Perhaps, the judge in this case felt that we were already doing our share for musicians.
Cheers -- Matthew Fogel (Sorry, no cool nick... I'm just a linux enduser)
What if the copy machine in the library ran $.005/page, not $.05?
Either way, it's usually cheaper to photocopy a textbook than to buy one. It's just a pain in the ass to do. But if the photocopier had a device that turned the pages for you, book publishers would probably call it a piracy-enabling device.
What happens when Trusted Computing architectures meet these p2p services, and a "bug" is found that allows anonymous access to all shared content? What if the network operators refuse to expire the certs on the "buggy" software? Are they liable for the infringement of the users, who refuse to stop using the software because they use it for other things?
The users can't stop the copies from being made because they're locked into the software, and shouldn't be expected to stop using the service (which they use for other reasons).
The authors can't be expected to be liable for the (mis)use of software bey their userbase, so long as it has a "substantial non-infringing use".
Vendor lock-in meets free speech.
OK, I know I'm way out west, here...
As the other replies point out, this guy obviously didn't read the judges discription of "distribution". And sharing on P2P IS allowed. Knock his 5 down, he's clueless.
just stay away from scott.. he's a real dick
I was reading through some threads here about the canadians isp's not having to give up file-sharers names and I didn't see this point mentioned. The judge didn't keep the isp's usersname's secret because of the users or companies right per se. The judge turned their request down because he did not believe that the any copyrights had been broken as a result of the user participating in file sharing. HA!
I'm not sure if the lawyers just made a really weak case or what the deal was, but the judge just didn't think that the users were violating any copyrights, ergo, there was no need to reveal their names.
It's true. My Canadian news told me so.
"1812 Napolean was peaking, the French was the world's biggets supper power, and america was poorer than Canada (we had the fur trade). Most of britan's army was on the other side of the pond preparing for a real war, not trying to defend a second rate rogue colony of free masons and at the same time the FRENCH CANADIANS."
That's all true, but it has precisely fuck-all to do with the fact that it was British troops, not Canadians who burned the white house.
I'm sure that given *another* 200 years, you bush league Frenchmen could come up with a *real* decisive victory that you actually participated in. Good luck
In Canada organizations like RIAA and SCO would not get away with disgusting, outrageous behavior unlike in some other places. Hooray. Canada!
No one, even the canadian court, can stop the money. Once paid, all those isp companies will happily betray their customers.
There you are, staring at me again.
If you are a customer of Shaw, Rogers, or Telus then take a minute to email customer support and thank them for standing up for freedom and privacy. Let them know that it means a lot to you. It will encourage them to continue to agressively fight on your behalf. Everyone bitches like crazy on here when companies do something bad. Lets thank and encourage them when they do the right thing.
shaw's support email address is internet.help@sjrb.ca. now you don't even have to go looking for it.
it'll only take you a minute.
Bogus
Haha, You must be from Newfoundland
:)
Nope, If I were, I'd be posting AC too. har har.
Seriously though, I visited Hibernia on my vacation to the East coast last year, it was quite amazing. And what it has done for Newfoundland is lowered the debt/GDP ratio, giving your province a higher credit rating from the bond-rating agencies, and you pay less interest on your debt as a result. It also created jobs, as you said which is very important in the region with the highest unemployment rate. Hibernia is a good thing, and I'm not bitter about my tax dollars going towards its construction. If nothing else though, it makes a hell of a tourist stop.
in a RAM disk!
Danhm, I don't know if you've seen this yet, but you're quoted in the Toronto Star.
Thestar.com - Court rejects music lawsuit
Enjoy your 15 minutes!
Seems to me that by charging EVERYONE more for blank CDs, and the fact that the money goes to the recording industry on the assumption that buyers of blank CDs are criminals and going to illegally copy music CDs, then it ALSO seems to me that by us paying that money, we are buying a LICENCE to copy the music and so are rightly able to download it. Otherwise, don't charge EVERYONE extra for the blank CDs. The REAL problem is the record company's A&R men who encourage poor songs by the bands and songwriters who are signed to huge $$$ contracts to put out poor 'filler' on their artists' releases. The public buyer has been ripped off by poor garbage content and are pissed off about it. Half of the recording artists shouldn't be signed to those huge contracts when they only have one good song. It is simply the public fighting back. It is the record companies who are to blame.
"No evidence was presented that the alleged infringers either distributed or authorized the reproduction of sound recordings. They merely placed personal copies into their shared directories which were accessible by other computer users via a P2P service."
I like the direction that this analogy is going in, but it needs more development or context. I wish I had access to the legal document.
I can see where the Judge is coming from -- Just the other day I photocopied all 5 pages of an article out of a popular music magazine that the library carried, because it featured my favourite band. I didn't want to read it at the libary, so I wanted to make a copy. So essentially I skipped out on paying $5 for the magazine, and just paid 50 cents for use of the photocopier/electricty/library maintenance, etc. I could have even used a scanner, which the library provides, for no cost (except for my tax dollars which help with public library operating costs.)
I liken this to downloading a single from an an album that I don't want to pay the full $20 dollars for, and want to copy and hear in my leisure as opposed to on the radio, and paying for use of my computer/electricity/net connection, etc.
While I am not entirely familiar with CanCopy and how libraries deal with the issue, I think what the judge is trying to get at is that there is a difference between PROVIDING THE MEANS to infringe copyright and actually INITIATING COPYRIGHT. Otherwise, book publishers should be at the throats of librarians.
Or maybe a CanCopy type deal needs to be established with ISPS and the record industry, with the levy being charged on any IP that logs bandwith on a P2P service.
I do see the validity in the analogy though -- it also hints at the "slippery slope" of the industry's arguments. What's next? Suing Google because they provide a search engine for me to find copyrighted text and articles, which *I* then saved to my hard drive? Suing Microsoft & Apple because they created browsers for me to view copyrighted pictures, which I then saved to my hard drive and distributed?
We are forgetting about 'Shinia'.
Sure it's country music.... but she makes it easy to look at. (??)
I mean... turn off the sound and enjoy?
Speaking about Canadian music... how about Rush, The Guess Who, The Bare Naked Ladies etc... etc...
sane? we just had one motorist shoot another (and kill him) just off our highway exit, and we're in a quiet (upper middle-class, now) part of town...
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http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom
(doesn't mapquest have photographic maps anymore??)
But isn't there a tax on recordable media in Canada that provides an alternative means of compensation to the recording industries (whether the stuff recorded on that media is actually copyright of someone in those industries or not, obviously)?
That's a significantly different situation to many other countries, the US and UK for example, where Internet distribution results in mass ripping with no compensation at all for the copyright holders.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Why doesn't anyone sue their ISP, for divulging their identity to the RIAA lackeys?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Considering how many CDs have been used for burning GNU/Linux ISOs, GNU should be getting a hefty share of the money.
I don't know for a fact, but somehow I wager that the amount is close to $0.
Actually I did read it.
And that's the whole point is that the interpretation of the law that he quotes makes putting the files in place legal. So they can't get you just by browsing Kazaa to see what you're sharing. But if they manage to catch you in the act of uploading, watch out.
Bandwidth usage in Canada has shot through the roof as every single Canadian is attempting to download the Internet after hearing of this judgement...
Hardly. Racism discriminates between people with inherent physical characteristics, which obviously cannot be changed. Drawing a distinction between people with different philosophical systems is entirely appropriate, given that one's choice of philosophy is a conscious one. Failing to make the choice is the same thing. If one chooses a destructive philosophy (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Hussein), then one should be censured appropriately.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
No one, even the canadian court, can stop the money.
Sorry bub, but this ain't america. We don't always bow to the money Gods like you guys tend to.
case can be downloaded from this page:
e w_e.shtml
t ml
http://www.fct-cf.gc.ca/bulletins/whatsnew/whatsn
docket number: T-292-04
on SLOPPINESS: at para [19] the judge wrote that having the president of the company as a witness was not good enough because he had not *personally* matched the uploaders with specific infringing files, so all his testimony was hearsay.
on COPYRIGHT: at para [27] the judge follows the precedent set by the Supreme Court in that the availability of a tool that can be used to infringe copyright is not enough to trigger infringement, because the element of AUTHORIZATION was not evident. the judge also cites a WIPO treaty which is not yet in force in Canada, that if it is enacted, would make this activity illegal.
SCC case cited can be found online at: http://www.canlii.org/ca/cas/scc/2004/2004scc13.h
on PRIVACY: due to the system of dynamically assigned IP addresses, the log info that can be used to identify individual account holders with infringing activity is time-sensitive. at para [42], the judge wrote that IN THIS CASE, the privacy privacy concerns outweigh the public interest concerns in favour of disclosure.
GOOGLE DOES NOT TRUMP AN EXPERIENCED LIBRARIAN
for the experienced librarian, google is merely one tool of many
That might be so, but the 60's were 35 years ago, and I missed the whole thing by a few years. What any of that has to do the present day seperatist movement I'm not sure, but I remember the referendum that narrowly came out in favour of remaining in Canada. That was a decade ago, not 35 years. Today we have 35 members of the Bloc Quebecois in parliament, are they there on some kind of collective flashback from the 60's? They are still committed to seperatism aren't they?
Canada has suffered official bilingualism for what, Twenty five years now? As a result everything manufactured and sold in this country has to have French on it, which I don't personally know anyone who would be lost without it there. All government documents are to be printed in English and French, and for what purpose? We've done all these things to appease the French, and they still say they are being treated unfairly. I travelled through Quebec last year, and witnessed the attitude toward English speaking Canadians. Needless to say, I won't be going back.
Winnipeg is home to the largest French speaking population outside of Quebec within Canada from what I'm told. I can't really say where these people are hiding, but apparently they do exist quite happily without complaining about the horrible things that English Canada does to them, it would be a great relief if Quebec could do the same.
The only part of the decision that has any precidential meaning has to do with the question before the judge -- can the ISP be compelled, on the basis of the evidence presented of an offense, to release subscriber names. Answer -- NO.
Everything else is Obiter Dictum. Interesting, but not binding on other courts.
Oh, IANALBISWTMMOLCAUBCM*
*I am not a lawyer but I spend way too much money on law courses at university before changing majors.
If you lose the court case then after the exchange rate instead of 10 years jail time you will be in for 13 years.
Not topless, dammit! NUDE! (you insensitive clod).
we're serving pot at the reception!
Still illegal.
Unless everyone involved is suffering from one of the terminal illnesses that can get you prescription pot...
They talked about making 30 grams or less punishable by a ticket, but the right wing bitches of the U.S. complained and had it reduced to 15 grams, then ten, then delayed it and we're still in the delay phase.
Common mistake though, I have to explain this to a lot of pot heads who are convinced that since they smoked pot next to a policemean once its legal (its not, that was just a lazy cop who didn't want to fill out all that paperwork).
Then I usually launch into a rant about how anyone who thinks that rape, murder, fraud and smoking a joint should get you the same punishment ought to be given the choice between getting raped, defrauded, murdered, or watching someone smoke a joint.
You can't take the sky from me...
There are two things in this world that I absolutely can't stand: people who are intolerant of other cultures AND Canadians.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
You forgot the quotes around 'liberate'. That would explain your confusion
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
Allow me to make a correction - nowhere in the Bible does it actually say black people are to be put to death.
It does say that about gays. In short: yes, the Bible is hate literature - but I doubt very much that the gummint is going to go around burning Bibles.
The Old Testament that you refer to is to be taken in context with the New Testament. Regardless, it's still the Word of God. These new laws are the beginning of the end times that is Prophesied in this very book. I know the world will get considerably worse before it gets better.
Christ will return to judge the nations, that's not our job but His. Ours is to show Christ's forgiveness for sin, and the way to reconciliation with God so we can have true peace.
This is how the world will view Christians:
Matthew 24 9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
John 15 18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.
God Bless
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.