Slashdot Mirror
Stopping Overseas Fax Spam?
iotashan asks: "Likely for most businesses, unsolicited faxes have become quite a problem. They needlessly use up toner and paper, and are usually just scams anyway. Specifically, we are receiving faxes from a company called Flamingo Travel. Now, they appear to bug business across the US, and some innocent parties are falling victim. I have used their automated system for having my fax number removed, to no avail. Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?"
"The latest fax listed a number to call to take advantage of the offer (800-328-9795), so I called it and asked to be removed. The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK. Do I have nowhere to turn except an expensive lawyer, armed with no information about the company?"
Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?
That's really not such a bad idea. Being that they're in an other country and illegally spamming, you can assume they aren't going to attempt to prosecute somebody that they themselves have illegally wronged.
Get a free VoIP service like Free World Dialup or something that lets you make 800 calls over the Internet. With most of them the caller ID shows up as random numbers across the US that they use to dial out. Then fax them tons and tons and tons of junk (read: goatse's) faxes through that.
Or you could just automate your VoIP program to call them every 30 seconds. Rack up the bills and annoy the hell out of them. Didn't Scott Richer get really pissed off when everybody submitted his email address to zillions of email lists?
Vonal Declosion
I think we should have a consistent answer to the guy who answers the 800 number. Something like "Sorry, wrong number. Bork bork." ?
--H
Block the number or get rid of your fax machine. .
Just get a lot of your friends to repeatedly call the number with their modems. They repeatedly fax you, why not rub it back in their faces?
Slashdoting a fax line...I like it! And it's for a moderately good cause. How can you beat that?
EVERYDAY IS CATURDAY
Call them under a pseudonym, tell them you want to place an order for group travel for your company, have them fax a quote to you. Chances are they will use their real fax machine (programmed with their real phone number) instead of the auto-dial bank. If you can scam them under the pretenses of faxing an order, that's even better. Have a local (or use cheap voip service) to spam them back a copy of their advertisement, marked up liberally with a black marker.
While it probably won't get you off the list, it will make you feel better.
tape 2 a4 sheets of black paper together lengthways, feed into fax machine and send. When the fax starts to feed through, tape together into a loop and leave it.
:)
That'll use up their toner
This sounds good to me. Shall me commence to /.ing there phone system?
Are you sure the return number is even theirs?
paintball
Seems to me that you could just rig up a computer to accept faxes, using ANI or caller id to refuse to accept anything you didn't get valid info for.
Set the jobs to auto-print and you are set. Use the old fax machine for outbounds only, rig it to not answer.
Woops, sorry, this solution requires more effort than plugging the machine into the wall. How could I have even brought it up.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
And program it not to answer their number. Pretty simple, really.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
Can't you have the telco block the number(s) sending you crap?
If you're reading this, dial 1-800-328-9795.
One call won't hurt. Keep them on the line as long as possible. Ask what they're wearing and when they stopped beating their kids and stuff.
I asked how many people have let them know how despicable fax smapping is now. The woman answering said nonchalantly "Oh, not very many". I let her know they'd be getting a lot more very soon now.
"Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
-H
The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK.
Now, I don't know about some third world countries, but isn't there a treaty that says something like "If a law is illegal in our country, your 'citizen' can't do it in our country.
I got through just fine. In fact I continue to get through, again and again and again and again.............
bash: rtfm: command not found
Ok, one thing I am missing, how much does it cost them? I mean f they are sending the faxes from UK, it will be too costly, but if they are sending it via some sort of internet relay, go after the relay - they are in the US and must obey laws. What am i missing here?
-Em
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
Is the not some kind of telecoms firewall type thingy using caller ID? If not that I bagsy the patent!
This looks like an urban legend that got on /. The phone number listed above goes to a similarly named company with a different story. Flamingo Travel. They say the offending company is in Florida. Wait to get the full story before you set up your war dialers...
My user number is prime. Is yours?
All the more reason to be glad I don't own, nor plan on owning a fax machine (PC Software included)
FuckTheFuckingFuckers.com - Post your th
1-800-328-9795
Lets not keep them waiting!
uses a fax machine anymore anyways???
I am gonna set up my key system to autodial every 5 minutes or so. The girl on the other end has no clue what she is about to get herself into with that fax system.
I wonder if such a product exists... something which sits between your phone line and the fax machine, if it sees a certain number, it kills the call.
You could probably cobble something together using an old PC and a modem. Write a script which picks up the modem for a second then hangs up. This may cause them to redial several times, costing them money. Of course, it will tie up your incoming line as well.
Dunno if this would be practical in your case, as caller id from a foreign country can show lots of weird stuff. As long as it's consistent and unique, could be a neat solution.
Why don't fax machines have whitelisting or blacklisting capabilities? Or do they?
Weren't they replaced by steam-powered typewriters or something?
Lemon curry???
This story is showing up at 6:20pm-ish EST. That means it's 11:20pm-ish in the UK. So you probably won't get an actual person, just voicemail.
I would not suggest having someone over in GB find their telephone circuit (ISDN-PRI, T1/E1, or whatever). Disconnect that line from the local telco provider (no need in creating collateral damage), and proceed to "test" the line.
For proper testing equipment, keep in mind that a normal telephone circuit runs about 40 VDC with 200 VDC spikes when ringing (your mileage may vary). Data lines tend to be much more voltage limited. As such, application of high voltage, say from a Megger or a VanDeGraff Generator, may cause "issues" with the CPE.
I would not recommend you do this, but then again, you are certainly welcome to use your imagination. Yes, the 220 VAC mains common in GB should create "interesting" results...
I keep a piece of black construction paper next to my fax machine. Granted this does not work for all my spam messages, but anyone who is bold enough to send unsolicited order forms that are to be faxed to their fax machine will be running out of toner daily. Economic solutions to SPAM do exist!
When we call we tell them we are minuto sombato from nigeria. We have a million dollars we need to transfer into an account and we need there help.
We kept getting junk faxes from some company with a 1-800 reply number. Well created a blank 250 page word doc that was nothing but a black background. It took half an hour to send the whole thing and I let it run for a few hours. Never heard back from them again.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Not a bad weapon if you consider Slashdot a bunch of friends.
Wonder-slash powers activate!
Form of a massive 800 number DoSing!
Shape of a six digit phone bill!
Just use Hylafax (Fax-server uses modem and Linux-computer), it doesn't use paper, unless you tell it too. :-)
:-)
I deliver it to e-mail (fax2mail), so it's just like all other spam. All I still need is some PrettyGoodOCR-software to make it realtext, then I can filter them out.
New things are always on the horizon
I was a victim. I finally got so pissed off at them coming in at 2-4am to my home phone that doesn't even have a fax machine hooked up that I changed my number... Unfortunately the new number belonged to some guy that is in huge debt with his creditors and they call constently. Also I forgot that I would no longer be on Missouri's no call list so telemarketers were calling quite a bit too. I think no call has kicked in because the calls seem to have dropped. The were almost all automated calls which is interesting because before the MO No Call list most telemarketing was done by live people.
If you guys want to organize a day where we call all the 800 numbers of spammers and junk faxers count me in. I've got a couple of numbers I've been collecting that I can throw into the pool.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Why it's the AT-5000 Auto-Dialer! My very first patent. Aw, would you listen to the gibberish they've got you saying it's sad and alarming? You were designed to alert schoolchildren about snow days and such. Well, let's get you home to Frinky. Hope your wheels still work.
If it didn't, people wouldn't do it.
I know somebody who runs a fax list. He's very religeous about getting you off his lists right away if you want off, but he's more liberal than I would prefer about what constitutes "opt in"...
It works.
He's getting business - lots of it. In his own words, he's "on a roll". It's cheaper and more effective to send junk faxes than to post legitimate ads in the trade magazines!
He's not selling penis pills or anything like that - just an independent broker promoting his services, which services he otherwise competently provides.
He'll continue this until the money runs out, like anybody else in his position.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I called, heard the phone pick up, "Reservations". So I said "I need reservations", and she hung up on me. Then I called back again and they picked up with no response. I said "Hello?", and they hung up.
So then I called and said "You're gonna die bitch". And then heard a bunch of women laughing.
Vonal Declosion
The poster mentioned the Fax Preference Service in the UK wouldn't help him track down and stop a UK-based faxer. However, he didn't mention whether the FCC would help a non-US fax recipient track down and stop a US-based faxer. Perhaps someone can find and link to the FCC's policies regarding foreign complaints, but in the meantime, be careful with attacking back with auto-dialers, looping faxes, and the like (not that they don't deserve it...just don't set yourself up for more greif).
I've often read about some of the projects out there to roll your own phone systems. I've never spent the time to implement any of them because they all seem so complex.
What I want is a linux box that answers my phone and based on caller ID it has rules that tell it what to do with that call. Send it to voicemail, ring the phones, hang up, etc.
Can this be done yet? Southwestern bell has a $5/month service that will answer unavailable/private calls and ask the person to say their name and then ring you if they do. I would love to do this on my side of the network.
Is it possible?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
This just confirms to the sender that your actually paying attention to whats coming through and I'm sure just encourages them to send more.
You'd think by now you'd be able to get a (walled garden/ firewall) for fax machines!!
are a magnificent bastard. It is bastards of your uncomprimising refinement that serve as brilliant beacons to younger people such as myself. Still points by which we may guide our course so that in time we too may achive greatness.
In short, you are a credit to the species.
Even our spam is getting outsourced. Keep American spammers employed, buy your useless crap only from American spammers.
Share your offshoring story - My Job Went Over
Jebus they still make paper and ink(toner) fax machines. Wow better get one fast make a killing when the Smithsonian comes calling for the americana display. What kinda ludite do you have to be to have a phone number connected some device that spits out dead trees and sucks toner like gas in a SUV? buy a modem circa 80s, and a similar quailty PC, install free OS dejour and write those faxes directly to the HD, look at them and only print the ones that are worth it. If your uber cool you just turn them into PDF (ps if your still in luddite mode) and email them to your self. If you cant figure out how todo all of this then you DESERVE to kill a billion trees and stain all your cloths with toner.
Receive the files okay, ask for more, and save them as JPG on your harddrive. And in case you need a hardcopy, print. In case of spam, just rm.
It's them who pay for overseas connection anyway.
45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Get a fax that read in line by line, with the output near to the input. Get a piece of black paper that is long enough, feed it trhough, and connect the ends. Continous fax that will run out their toner and might even overheat an older unit.
...i would think that any company that has a bank of autodialing fax machines will probably have a machine set up to rec'v faxes, ocr them, and do some form of validity. however, if the intent is to not only tie up the offrnding fax line, but to incur significant charges to the line (assuming the inbound line is an 800 number) , then the above trick of sending a 250 page black doccument is 'a winner' !
You could try contacting the ASA (Advertising Standards Authority), they may be able to help. While i havent read the british code, I think fax/email sent from britain to the us still falls under the ASA's jurisdiction, and is still illegal if you have not consented. You can find the code here, http://www.asa.org.uk/the_codes/downloads/Bcasp_11 .pdf , but it is probably easier to just phone and ask.
Paul
Paul
tried twice gt disconnected on the 3rd try I got a recording telling me about a new national directory assistance service and that I should dial 101515800
warning it costs upwards of $2 to makethe call so I wouldnt dial the number.
Looks like someone should have planed trunk capacity for /.. I would hate to be their internal telco guy. I bet his ACD is lit up like a christmas tree. Hope he has enough coffee for the page out.
have a terrible reputation of ripping people off and using aggressive sales pitches. ..just say no and leave your money in a high deposit account.
Most go bankrupt owing millions and then rise again under new names being run by 'family' members but still controlled by banned directors.
Stay well clear and don't buy their line that it's a good investment.
If you're tempted
(looks around nervously)
;)
If you have their fax number, especially if it's an 800#...
Take 4 sheets of black construction paper and tape them together end to end so they will feed through your fax machine. Once the first sheet is through, quickly tape it to the last sheet to create a continuous loop.
If they use conventional fax, use up their paper and toner. If they store faxes electronically, a continuous loop should eat up some storage
"Lame" - Galaxar
I checked on the guy who posted this.. there's really no history of him posting anything on slashdot prior to this--
iotashan
Seems like a banner click thru scam, but this time it's with a 1-800 number. Brilliant.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I'm a Brit doing my thing and helping a fellow /.er by ringing the number, only thing is that I can't get through!
Looks like we've managed to /. the phone line! They're hanging up as fast as soon as they pick up... could hear other phones ringing in the background.
Haven't had this much fun on the phone since fifth grade!
I just called the number -- the other end picked up for a moment and hung right up again! How rude!
For the half a moment that I could hear, there were lots of phones ringing and someone was shouting. Business must be good!
It will indeed eat paper and toner. if it's stored in digital an all black xmit would probaby compress nicely. what you may want is something with a random pattern to big to compress.
eric
And replace it with a computer. Their faxes will still tie up your line for the same amount of time, but now you can just delete them and move on with your life instead of having them print out and waste your paper and toner or ink or whatever your fax machine uses. It will reduce them from a minor annoyance to a trivial one.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
has anyone told them to come to slahdot and look at this article?
I must say, this is more entertainment than you get at most movies! Someone answers each time I phone, but hangs up immediately. On the occasions that they are a bit slower, I can hear some background noise, and it sounds like a symphony of phones ringing there.
If nothing else, some of the employees will probably quit. Ah hah hah hah!
I moderate "-1, Fool"
...but the call still connects, of course. :)
Who the hell uses a fax machine anymore anyways???
Normal businesses and people, that's who.
When an editor wants to send back a marked-up piece of copy, they do it by fax. Any real editor in the world will tell you that you don't edit online. You do it with proofreaders' marks, circles, arrows, writing in between lines, etc.
If you are, or are dealing with, a lawyer, a real-estate agent, or anyone who works with contracts, you exchange the contracts via fax. (Typing your name in e-mail doesn't count as a signature.)
The business world still relies on faxes because they work better than e-mail for many purposes.
Most people don't have sheetfeed scanners, so they can't put a 15 page document in their scanner and just walk away. They have to feed it page by page, so don't even bother with the use-a-scanner-and-e-mail-it line.
As I was dialing some guy was on the other end. It looked like I had picked up right as they were calling in. Hope he likes a busy.
800 numbers are now reachable from overseas (at normal long distance rates), so they are not a defense against FAX spam anymore.
What does help, however, is to use on-line FAX accounts. That way, your FAXes get delivered as email and you don't have to waste toner or paper on discarding them. In fact, you can filter on the telephone number, which will appear in the Subject: line with many on-line FAX services.
I searched Yahoo and found the following site matching the phone number. www.flamingo-travel.com/Home/News.asp?ID=1
OK, Now attack.
You got a modem? You got a phone line? I would set up mine so that whenever I was asleep or out of the house it would just keep dialing them. Maybe they can see the number and decide not to answer, but it would still help tie up their incoming lines.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
all circuits currently busy due to priority testing ongoing on the line :) I have scheduled some very disruptive circuit tests for the next 24-48 hours on that number, continual runs due to the nature of the performance issues :) Usage both incoming and outgoing will be very spotty for the duration. :)
AT&T serving our customers in the best way we know how...POORLY
iotashan asked, "why are you bothering me, I don't want to buy your shit?"
spammer answered, "because we can."
iotashan asked, "what can I do to these worms?"
My phone call to them was what he did.
Nice work, io. The place I used to work got four or five of these stupid things a day. Finincial ruin onto spammers.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
SlashDot Digital Army ATTACK!! love it!
However, spammers always lie - if they're using an 800 number, there's a high probability that it really _is_ in the US, and they're just claiming to be in England to make you go away. Or the 800 number could be going to a VOIP box in the US which connects them to a call center in the UK. So trace the call - at least with callerid, if nothing else (though that's often inaccurate) and see if you can find out where it's from. If the call is coming in on a direct analog phone line, you can also use one of the phone company features like *69 or your local telco's call tracing versions to check further.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
More information is at Flamingo Travel's website.
Brilliant is when they get the list of numbers from their phone bill and sell that list to telemarketers. That's f'ing brilliant. Hopefully the lines of most people calling don't accept incoming calls.
Try http://www.junkfaxes.org/
also, google the number. Other people have had a similar problem with the same company.
If you have better things to do then to be calling a 1 800 number over and over then crack out your old modem and get it to dial the number over and over and over and over. Also whoever answers the phone will greeted with a carrier tone :)
One of the most persistent offenders is a two-bit little box-pushing laser printer and supplies company in the north of Sydney called 'IT Imaging' (sales@itimaging.com.au). Their business practises are pretty suspect at the best of times, for eg I called them for a quote on a printer once (that I didn't go through with - too expensive) and they started calling my contemporaries in other departments saying "We're doing business with him, maybe you want to buy from us too?". They're big on junk faxes too.
When I get cold calls or junk faxes, I just add them to my "don't buy from these arseholes" list, and they stay there for a year. A polite email/fax to the effect of "As a direct and specific consequence of your decision to send me junk [mail|spam|call], I have added your company to my department's do-not-buy list, and your company will not be considered for any [insert product here] requirements for one year from this date]".
The Apple Centre in Taylor Square are another junk faxer of note here in Sydney, and they're pretty much a permanent resident on the "do not buy" list too!
Got a call from a girlie trying to be all official sounding, "calling on behalf of sales executive Mister Sales Droid from Fuji Xerox, wondering if you want to buy printers, blah blah". "We like Fuji Xerox as a company, here, because FX sustainable business practices are something we like, BUT, as a direct and specific result of your call...". They get off the phone real quick when you tell them that. I guess they want their year to start as soon as possible, so it will be over ASAP! :-)
Admittedly, this doesn't help with the anon and hard to contact fax spammers, but it seems to work pretty well on the ones who actually want to do quasi-legitimate business with you.
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
And they're almost certainly receiving the fax on a fax modem, so sending lots of black bits just uses up jpeg space, not human attention. You really want to send them lots of faxes that _look_ like they're real requests, so humans need to waste time reading them.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Ok finaly a subject I know something about. My background is that I repair fax and copiers for a major Chicago copier dealer. I am curently trained on over 25 models of fax and 20 multi function or fax/copier/printer all in ones.
First off most faxes have whats called a junk or spam fax number blocking list. You will have to read how to access it for your fax , but they all have it. Simply add the number to the list and no more faxes will come your way from them.
Second if you want to pay this person back I have a way designed to hurt someone bad. Simply make 5 copies with the lid up on a copier, this will give you 5 black sheets. Next tape them end to end . Put tape on the end of the long black strip. Insert it in your fax and dial the number. As the lead edge comes through the scaner tape the lead edge with the tape on the end creating a loop. Leave this send for 5 or 60 mins.
On the other end black sheets will pour out and will not stop. If done on a thermal machine the print head is toast. Best to do it in the middle of the night as no one will be there to unplug the fax.
I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat
isnt there a place where we can sign their number up for porn...like we can subscribe porn thru emails
They've stopped answering the phone for me
ae they stil picking up yours? maybe they gave up and decided just to let the phones ring
Now why does their phone line stay in the High-Z state? As in open circuit. . .
Wasting the time of job-seekers like that would be rude. Post a Usenet announcement about Free Phone Sex instead...
When you work for a company someday, you'll find that no one wants to pay someone to hack a damned fax machine solution. Believe it or not, most people have jobs that don't allow them such free time. Wanting to "just plug it in" is a quite reasonable expectation. Just because everyone around here has the time, skill, and disposition to fuck around with their hardware doesn't everybody does
Not to mention that a standard fax machine is simpler and more stable than a computer-based solution for those companies that aren't large enough to really devote time to doing it right.
Also, there are a lot of reasons why someone's info might not show up on Caller ID - such as being behind a PBX in some instances - and that would basically be giving up on business.
All in all, that was a very good suggestion for those who don't actually have to run a real business.
Since they are in England I'm gonna repeat call and continually ask if they have Prince Albert in a can...
According to the website provided by Slashdot:
They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel... they sell time shares.
-B
No one has an archive of all the worst shock-site pictures loaded into a word document all ready to blast out on whomever is foolish enough to dare? Then beauty of that is, you can configue word not to show the pictures, but they'll sure as hell show up on the other end heh.
Let's see how smug they are when they're drowning in their own vomit. It's about time the goatse.cx guy used his powers for good.
cd /tmp/ /tmp/junk/*
:) :)
mkdir junk
--- now script --
rm -rf
wget -r http://www.flamingo-travel.com
--- done ---
loop it up
that should help... hope they are paying for bandwidth too..
anime+manga together at last.. in real time.
First three times, someone picked up the phone, then hung it back up again. I could hear phones almost ringing themselves off the hook in the background. Next ten times, it just rang, and rang, and rang.....
;-)
I really should be getting back to studying for my finals, but a few more calls shouldn't hurt anyone
The only post I saw that was informative, was to put a FAX card in your linux box, and script it to only accept calls from ANI that is on a whitelist.
p /1451781
Which leads me to believe that if you were to build a small box like this, with a keypad to add "whitelisted" numbers, or perhaps even an ethernet interface and a web server, like linksys does, to configure it - it would sell pretty well.
I wonder if high end FAX machines can offer this? Let me see....
Well, i can't find a FAX machine that allows a ANI white list. I did find this article on a class-action lawsuit against fax.com though...
http://siliconvalley.internet.com/news/article.ph
Really when any solicitor calls me, even my bank, just start with the dirtiest phone sex talk you can imagine (or if you are not brazen download some).
;) I can't get providian to stop calling me from india. The folks just keep calling 830am noon 430pm, im like dude (person being called) is at work.
I remember i wrote a fax app in dos (pascal api) that did just that. it wardialed the leasing office fax machine and sent black pages all night. This was a while ago. They unplug the fax at night now lol.
Anyone got a program that wardials in xp these days? Its been a long time
im ready to wardial and if i can use TAPI say something that i mean.
You sir, deserve a Gold Star.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
Simple....call them from a pay phone, 800 numbers don't require money for the pay phone since the company you are calling picks up that tab.
Also, they won't get your home phone number this way!
For academic purposes only. Know the laws of your state.
First, you'll need a credit card number.
Visa numbers are constructed like this like this:
Start with the digit 4
16 digits altogether
The checksum they must pass is:
Take the even digits, double them, and add the resulting digits together to get a new digit. (or just map 0-9 to 0246813579 for the even digits).
Then add all the digits together. If it's a multiple of 10, the card number is valid. A quick way to generate would be to start with 4 plus 14 random digits, calculate the checksum of those 15 digits, and subtract from 10 to get the remaining digit.
Their machines will initially accept them, and be forced to contact visa to verify their correctness, at which time they'd fail, but result in small charges to their merchanct account. Enough bad card numbers can get an account suspended.
Evidently this Flamingo Travel has been getting complaints about the one sending spams and it is affecting their business as well. A message is at the top of their website saying it is a different Flamingo Travel.
While not a fix for your problem it will cut down your toner costs. We use it at work and get junk faxes occationally. We just delete them like email spam and then print out the real faxes.
who's to say that this # or any/all of the others mentioned in the comments are spammers? What a great way to piss off a legit faxer: tell /. they're spammers and watch them get taken out of business...
Mains is 230V.
Personally, I'd write a little shell script that just dials out of a modem and calls their 800 number every 10 seconds. Then pass out the collection of older modems that so many of us have to your friends along with the script and have at it... Of course, they might find some legal loophole and be able to sue you for harassment, etc., but you won't know til you try. :)
A bit un-related but the most annoying fax SPAM of all: getting Fax SPAMS on voicemail.
A friend had been getting faxes through voicemail for office supplies. I transferred what part of the fax that was on voicemail to a real fax machine. A complaint to the telephone company (Bell Canada) later and no more! The telephone companies usually take action pretty fast.
If you're worried about paper and toner, grab some fax
software and use one of the PCs in your office that has a
fax/modem in it to recieve faxes and preview them in
software and print out the ones you want on paper. snap in
the fax machine for sending.
wouldn't most spammers also have computers so the endless-loop-of-black-paper-trick wouldn't amount to anything but spam (annoying, but not costly)?
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
Right name, wrong domain. There's more than one "Flamingo Travel" out there. They're one of the victims mentioned in the original post that has been hurt by these spammers.
Click on the website of the site and you will get the following message (It's probably a good idea to calm down now): We have been recieving phone calls from people angry that we are sending them fax specials like $99 to Disney and Kids Free. Please know that they are NOT coming from Flamingo Travel Group in Pennsylvania. They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel. Their phone number is 1-800-328-9795 and they sell time shares. FILE YOUR COMPLAINT: http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/unwantedfaxes .html
***We do not send faxed specials...ever...period.***
***We do not send email blasts...we only send email to people that ask for it***
***We remove people right away if they change thier mind at any time.***
***We value our privacy and we would never violate yours by sharing privledged contact information. ***
***We have nothing to do with time shares. Personally, I think they are a bad idea***
A reputable Travel Company will provide you with:
1. A Physical Address of thier place of business.
2. Their phone, fax and email information.
3. Their IATA number.
4. They will never ask for your income information...it's none of thier business.
5. Any reputable company should allow you time to check them out, offer information to help you check them out and this information should be verifiable.
Apparently these guys are having a tough time because of this.. insta-Slashdot side-effect!
I have something in common with Stephen Hawking...
800 numbers use ANI so your caller ID blocking doesn't work. This might be a scam set up by the original poster to get people of a certain demographic (slash is mostly read by US-based technology early adopter consumers with money to spend on crap like ipods) so they can sell your numbers to others for marketing purposes. Since you made the first call you have implicitly created a relationship with them. Now, a US based company can buy this list and doesn't have to comply with the do not call policy.
I'm not paranoid if they're all out to get me.
It costs the recipient $0.25+ for each call from a payphone. Hit'em where it hurts.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Why not make all incoming faxes go to a server with a fax modem in it, and filter it like you would normal spam?
Alternatively, call your telephone company and demand that they block the spammer's number?
JunkBUSTERS has a good web page on dealing with junk faxes. They also have lots of good, practical advice on lots of other related communications abuses. This is a site that is well worth checking out.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Track them down and kill them.
And no, I'm not joking. They deserve death.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
Well, of _course_ I called them from my modem line, not that I bother connecting it to a modem these days :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Not really. Why? Because like any product or service, if what you deliver (in this case, callers) is worthless (in this case, geeks looking to ask if their fridge is running), customers walk.
When all the customers have walked, you go out of business.
Please help metamoderate.
That hardly explains why the other companies with that name are apparently desparately saying "it's not us!!" and have filed FCC complaints, etc.
When Bill Stewart has something to say about phone companies, mark it "+5, definitive".
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Has he ever been sued?
Have you told him that what he does is illegal?
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
I can't believe all you suckers! The fact is that not all 800 numbers are free. I expect in a month we'll have another /. story from people complaining that they were charged for those 3 hour long fax sessions.
After Googling the 800-328-9795 number it appears that the poster isn't the only people ticked off at the offenders.
You can still take them to small claims court. Keep in mind, you can recover $500 plus collection expenses. Thus it is $500 plus the cost of having the suit served in England and your court fees.
After you get a judgement (which you will do since they will most likely not show up), you can put a lien on any propety or bank accounts or other aspects of their business in the United States. You may even be able to approach Visa / Mastercard and attach a lien against their accounts. Furthermore, once you have a judgement, you should be able to pursue them across national lines due to the many treaties that are in place.
I sure would like to see their expression once they realize that yes, you can pursue them across national bounderies. -Art
Without a copy of the original spam fax, it's hard to know exactly what to say to these spammers to get their attention. Do they want you to call them or fax them? What are they advertising? Did the fax have an ostensible originating fax number? (Faxing black pages to their voice line isn't all that useful :-)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Sure, it costs you, but if you are able to reverse the communications, *ignore* the morons who will inevitably tell you to tape three or four pieces of paper together into a loop.
What to do?
I'm glad you asked. Fax them black construction paper. (if you want to really get them, then loop several pages of black paper and send it). I doubt there's a fax machine on the market which contains enough toner for more than a couple of sheets. And once you've wasted their toner (it shouldn't take very long), any faxed information [to them] will be skipped.
You're right, slashdot is definitely the arena to put something like this if you want mass calls. If you don't have access to this though you may be able to fight it a different way. Here's an example...
I got those same FaxSpam messages and tried getting unsubscribed many many times. I left messages, I left my contact information and in turn got fed up and applied a technical response to the problem.
The number listed on my FaxSpam was a 3+ minute recording of some guy yacking about the fool proof money making method of the month. I'm sure it cost him $.25 per call considering the legth of the message.
I had a bank of innactive modems for a newly de-installed dial-in system for my company. I fired it back up and attached it to a management computer. I then proceeded to plug all 48 modems back into our PBX lines (no numbers listed to be blocked) and wrote a cute script to war-dial on all 48 modems the 800 number listed. I ran the script for about an hour to test its stability and then shut it off.
I figured I'd give the spammer one more shot to remove my company's information and called the number in person. I left a polite message saying who I was and that I was once again requesting to be removed from his fax list. I left my number and a temporary e-mail address saying, that I was aware of how much each call was costing him and that I would repeatedly call to take up his time and money. I waited 24 hours and gave him every chance to remove me. That next night we received the same barage of fax spams to all of the fax machines at my company. I turned my script back on and let the program run away. It ran for about 36 hours before I received a call back from the guy that ran the FaxSpam list. He had left the message whie I was out of my office but it boiled down to him begging me to stop calling. By the time I got the message(2 hours later), the 800 number had been disconnected. We noticed a significant drop-off in FaxSpam before I left the company.
I used to get serveral junk faxes every day. I called the phone company to modify the fax line configuration only to accept calls that presented caller ID information. This stopped all of the junk faxes.
I just called... I let it ring, and got a system message. Nobody picked up :)
that's the real Flamingo Travel, identified as the victim in the first paragraph. Notice the dates, late march to late april.
The fake Flamingo Travel isn't done till everyone who works there is chilling at the morgue, and I can watch their children take it from a donkey in a Mexican bar for 100 pesos.
To combat the spammers I say we use the Necronomicon to raise some Deadites and get medieval on their punk asses.
Mmmm... waiting for someone annoyed enough with
this crap to someday come up with a program
that you could put on agetty, modem picks up...
An tarpits the fax... yea send me a fax it'll
only take you an hour to send a page...not
familar with with protocols that fax's use.
This a possible???
Do I have nowhere to turn except an expensive lawyer, armed with no information about the company?
No, you could always post an article on Slashdot with the actual 800 number, implicitly urging innumerable irritable geeks to inundate them with bizarre crank calls.
Wait, you already did that.
Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
800 number scams
Seems you need to agree beforehand to a billing arrangement or provide a CC # before you begin recieving 'services'.
We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
there was no answear when I called ... 7:56 EST
I run a home business, and I feel utterly at the mercy of these parasites. Between calls, faxes and junk email, I am kept in a constant state of agitation and unproductivity. My plan has always been that if my business ever fails and I no longer have any monetary assets to loose, I will drop out of society and drift from city to city sabotaging telemarketers (stealing paper and toner, cutting phone lines, etc... nothing too violent). It is pleasing to know that I have a fall-back plan.
I don't mean to give anyone ideas, but I'd be surprised if among the entire Slashdot community there isn't someone ready to do this. Such a person would become a hero to millions! One drawback is the possibility of prison time, and potential mistreatment - so keep this in mind. Also, don't physically hurt anyone.
greetings earthlings
I heard that scammers were using what seemed to be a n 800 number was really a 900 toll call. So if you folks that call this 1-800 number repeatedly or hang on the line, you might just find yourself with a huge phone bill this Month.Greedy or revengeful people always get screwed in the end.
I don't know if this is possible, but this is my idea. Is it possible for the spam fax recipient, to have the specific incoming phone number from the spammers be redirected to one of those #900 pay for psychic phone sex lines at so many dollars per minute? I know you can get call forwarding, so... is this possible, to restrict the call forwarding to a specific incoming phone number, or would the bill show up at.. who's box? I don't know but I think you can see the idea here, Just automate the response so it turns around on them. Or have their spam go to another spammers number, and so on and so forth, the "telephone spam honeypot of doom".
TSHOD © under the WTFC general purpose internet posting license
I'm not yet sure of the details, but do you remember the scene in Brasil where the Central Services guys were "fixing" the HVAC systems in the appartment, and then Tuttle comes in on his zip line and does a cross-over between the sewer output line and the suit air input line and then the two Central Services guys suits fill up with sewage and explode? We need to somehow cross-connect the fax spammers with 419 scammers so they work on eachother.
Time for a new OSS project.
Wardialer with a recording.... bork bork!
I don't want a pickle; I just want a Motor-Cycle! A four foot cop arrived with a five foot gun!
I see two problems with that approach.
The first is that if a new company starts up, they have to find a way to get their name out there to businesses in some way. In the US, you simply avoid calling individuals and numbers on the Do-Not-Call list (which unfortunately costs thousands of dollars to get the entirety of). Cold calling businesses is a decent option for getting business. Then you can afford advertising and have some word of mouth going on.
The second is that by refusing to do business with a company because they called you is a little silly. A lot of companies cold call for new leads. Most of them don't call people they have either already called recently, or who have asked to not be called again.
As someone starting up a business, if you have better suggestions on how to get new clients, I'd love to hear them, though!
If you have a computer and a voice/fax modem and voicemail/fax software, it's easy enough to make your own telezapper. You can even do it with an regular answering machine, though you might find it difficult to make a high enough quality recording for it to work correctly. In both cases, you just pre-pend your answering message with the appropriate SIT tones and a few seconds of silence.
Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
Add the above info to the headline, the last thing we want to do is annoy people with a legitimate business.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
No, this is the time share company. They are located in Asspen, Florida
www.faxwar.com Go there, it's a respectable site run by Tom Martino (that is to say, he pays to make it look that way), and they pay you cash when you send in your faxes to them. You can even fax your faxes to them (Can anyone say, irony?).
I've had an eFax number for a couple years. I've never received a spam Fax. Does eFax know something?
The first is that if a new company starts up, they have to find a way to get their name out there to businesses in some way.
It's called: take out a Google ad or an ad in a newspaper, or advertise to your cronies (who wouldn't mind getting in touch with you again). Pass out coupons, everybody loves a "deal", but make sure you print them out at your own cost. Pissing off potential customers is no way to get business. Reminds me of the v|@gr4 spammers. Why do they keep adding typos into their messages? Because people are filtering out messages containing those words. Why are people filtering out those words? Because they don't want to listen to these spammers? Why are these spamming companies trying to thwart the filter? Beats me. Some people just need a lead pipe to the head.
What happens if the number you generate using your alogorithm happens to be the CC number of an actual Visa customer? Don't you cause them some undeserved headaches?
If I remember correctly the compression faxes use are based on the premise that its a text page is mostly white. Its much easier to tell when you could watch the fax come out (rolls of thermal paper... do they still have those?) Faxes of "cover sheets" would always come through quickly while pages with more stuff on them came through more slowly.
I remeber stories of crooked contracters trying to prevent other bids by tieing up the fax machines by sending the "black fax"
Well, there's about a 1 in 10^13 chance of that happening for the actual number. Plus, you'd need to get the expiry date correct. Assuming a conservative 2 year window for month/year combinations, this makes it 24 times less likely you'd stumble upon a valid one. Oh, and not to mention the name wouldn't match. Suffice it to say I don't think you'd ever hit upon a valid credit card number with matching expiry in your lifetime.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
...is the only thing that worked for me. I was getting junk fax calls in the middle of the night, always from different sources. I talked to the FCC, I talked to the Attourney General of my state, they both said they'd take copies of the junk faxes for reference, but each complaint had to be processed individually. The one law firm supposedly dealing with junk faxes in my state on junkfaxes.org never responded to inquiry email.
In the end I coughed up $5 a month to Verizon for "anonymous call intercept." All of the junk faxes came from anonymous sources that dodged caller ID, so this service bags them all. I hate having to pay to silence that crap, but it's better than being woken up in the middle of the night every fucking night. I did this about 2 months ago and haven't received a single junk fax (or telemarketing call, for that matter) since.
-- http://frobnosticate.com
1-800-KaBloom
1-800-884-9510
The first seems to want to sell flowers. You have to press 1 or 2 to talk to someone, so configure that into your modem dial scripts (a comma will add a pause in the dial sequence, so put in enough to let them answer before autodialing the extension).
The second is trying to sell computers, and a human answers right away.
I chatted with the people at both ends, and they were quite friendly. They said I'd have to ask customer service if I wanted to get my questions answered about how profitable their spamming was. Unfortunately customer service has already gone home for the day.
Have fun!
so let me get this straight... if a company somewhere has done something to piss me off, I just have to make up a story about how they are spammers, post it with a phone number to slashdot, and revenge is mine?
I'm not saying that's what this poster did, but I would have liked some more proof first, probably more than can be given over the internet.
I've thought about setting up a voicemail system, but info on making voice modems work with Linux is few and far between. Last time I looked at it, it seemed like more of a pain in the ass than it'd be worth.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Those folks used to be based in New York. They sent our racist questionaire polls, of course people probably responeded, but in small type at the bottom was a note informing them that they would be charged $3.95 a minute. Their reply number was also a charge number. These same people seem to have moved over seas and are now at a UK number.
A couple of points on overseas faxes. They are operating a business across international lines, that would mean they would need to have some kind of US subsidiary or they do not have permission to operate here. Send a note to Scotland Yard, informing them of the abuse, I don't know about British law, but I bet it is probably illegal to do these kinds of things from there. I could be wrong, but I believe 1(800) and 1(900) numbers are for the USA and Canada. Someone has to be here in the USA to receive the bills and pay them. Sending a fax from Britain is probably prohibitively expensive, I would wager it came from the US, but the call center was in Britain.
You can also find out who owns the phone number block, and as a result contact their provider, informing them that these people are doing illegal acts. That may be your best option. Simply shut them down at the switch.
For the smug bastards who think they are above the law, I believe the fines the US government levys against them can be applied to their phone bill.
Contact your states Attorney General and US Attorney general to get legal action against them. Also try the British Embassy/consulate, they may be able to tell you their laws better, perhaps fax them a copy of your fax.
Here is what you do. Set up your VoIP software to redial every 30 seconds after the call is disconnected, and everytime they pick up, play the following recording:
"Your call is very important to us...please stay on the line for the next available representative." mix this message up in your winamp or XMMS playlist every minute or so to the worst collection of muzak, cheesy porno music or elevator music you can find (easy listening station?). Be sure to play this message or one similar to it aeveral times per song, so they know how important they are to you!
Fight fire with fire, I say.
The CAN SPAM Act did one good thing... it amended the federal junk-fax law ... it used to read:
It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States --
and as of Jan. 1, 2005 it now reads:
It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States or any person outside the United States if the recipient is within the United States--
TCPALaw.com has copies of a lot of court cases against junk faxers, some of which came from out of the country.
This idea won't stop them, but it should slow them down. On a staticy phone line, faxes drop down to slower speeds and retransmit lines that fail error correction.
Any way to rig up a fax modem to receive faxes at the slowest rate possible and make the fax receipt take as long as possible? When I receive fax spam, I wonder if there are ways to tie up the sending machine for as long as possible. It would take them longer to send faxes. If enough of us do this, it should have an effect on how many the assholes can send.
Time = money, and at least we can try hitting them in Time.
Ok, I am putting in some late hours tonight, and my cubicle is next to our offices fax machine. Just got a fax from Flamingo Travel. Damn. /me is looking over shoulder... waiting for thought police to nab me.
Hello I am Maureen at Flamingo Travel Group. Someone sent me this link. I didn't know anyone was listening (watching) my news on my site. It kind of feels good that someone has and I am not shouting into the wind.
We do not get commissions, faxes, kick backs or anything at all from Flamingo Travel in Florida. We have nothing to do with them at all. We only get the complaints when people search for a Flamingo Travel to get mad at. I have emailed Gov Bush, emailed the FCC, filed complaints with the Florida government and the Florida Attorney General. I don't know what else to do. I wish they would go away, they make my life hell, I don't approve of what they do, I hate time shares and telemarketers and blast faxers. I don't know how I can make it more plain than that. We have nothing to do with them and I would love to see them go out of business or get sued. We are a small company in Pennsylvania, the complaint calls are terrible and take up alot of our time. If you know how to get rid of them...please share the information with me.
call or email me. My phone number is 1-800-325-7465 ext. 22 and my email is maureencarreno@flamingo-travel.com
I can't sell you a $99 Disney deal any more than I can sell you the tooth fairy...some things just don't exist!
I would be glad to give you copies of everything I have tried so far to get rid of the faxes. If I knew where that Flamingo travel was, I would punch the owner in the face!! Once again, I am open to your suggestions.
If one little mom-and-pop company tells them to take a hike, they write you off as a nut case and won't bug you no more. If two companies tell them to go pound sand--in harmony--they'll think you're subsidiaries and avoid the both of you. And if three companies--just three companies like IBM, GM, and WalMart--tell them "Call me again and we'll see you in court", they'll think its a movement. And that's what it is... (with apologies to Arlo Guthrie).
No, it won't solve the problem of junk faxes, but it does reduce the cost of dealing with them. Junk faxes get deleted and do not waste toner/paper.
To all the posts claiming that it is too expensive to send faxes from the UK, think again. For $2.95 a month here in Canada I get 6 cents (Canadian)/minute to the UK whereas for an extra $2.95/month I can only get 7 cents/minute to somewhere else in Canada so it would actually be cheaper to fax Canada from the UK than from within Canada!
We used to get a fax for free hair stuff until we took a 6 foot length of paper wrote "Stop Faxing us" on it, fed one end into our fax machine, created a big loop and faxed it back to the company once they had cloed up for the night... If you can get their fax number by hook or by crook... give it a try. If anything it will either tie up their computer fax or kill thier stack of paper and toner in one night.
Feed my eyes...
I have to deal constantly with smartasses who thought they could fix things but screw them up even worse.
NOBODY is allowed to fuck around with anything here that already works! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We don't care how great you think you are, or how well you "fixed" your mother's computer -- if you touch that company device without written instructions to do so, you are fired.
Oh, I tell them it's only for a year :-) The way I see it, in my own kooky little frame of reference, is that if I tell them "not ever", they'll write me off as a kook but keep spamming me out of spite anyway. If I tell them "one year" there is light at the end of the tunnel, and they might get it in their heads that if they play nice, they might get some of my money one day. Now if I was just a little Mum-and-Dad company, it probably wouldn't count for a whole lot, but I work for a big big company with lots of money, and most of them are really keen to get some of that money!
Some of them just can't help themselves though. Those morons at the printer-pushing company seem to be able to make it to about 10 months, then they let another round of spam fax fly!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
In any case, I seriously doubt anybody here is going to get involved by directly retaliating against the company in question. The poster is simply asking for advice from an experienced knowledge pool in how to deal with fax spammers. This is called "Networking"; it promotes discussion and thought. It is a very useful tool in solving all manner of problem. Your false brand of skepticism, however, only vilifies the victim and aids nobody but the aggressor.
-FL
Yes, that's fine and all, but the bit that I have trouble with is, these people know they're being offensive, they've gotta know that they're pissing off their customer base.
Maybe I'm crediting them with way too much intelligence, but as I see it, you'd have to be pretty dumb not to see that what you're doing is...
1. Irritate potential customers
2. Irritate potential customers more
The bit that I just don't understand is, given that step 1 and step 2, how the hell do these morons end up with
3. Profit!!!
The second is that by refusing to do business with a company because they called you is a little silly.
Now I'm gonna disagree with you there. See, I don't like people who cold call me. If I'm at my desk, I'm usually trying very hard to concentrate on something. If you break my concentration, I'm probably not going to be feeling all that neigbourly. this may come as something of a surprise to you, but I'm actually not nearly as enthusiastic about whatever widget it is that you want to sell me as you are.
A lot of companies cold call for new leads.
It is widely accepted that the only way to stop spammers is for them to realise that spamming is unprofitable. The only way they're gonna figure that out is if no-one, ever, buys from them.
If I'm shopping for widgets, I'll google for widgets, I'll look in the yellow pages, the white pages and the classifieds. I'll ask colleagues and friends "Do you know anyone who sells good widgets?". I will not, ever, buy from a cold calling widget salesdroid.
if you have better suggestions on how to get new clients, I'd love to hear them, though!
Depends on the product I s'pose. If it's something IT, buy google ads, attend trade shows, give good demos at the trade shows, and try to hide that air of desperation that seems to cloud the presentation of many first timers. Submit your product for review at reputable review sites, ones that tell it how it is, like Dan's Data, and not those dodgy reviews for hire places that make it all stardust and rainbows.
I block banner ads, pretty much the only thing I actively look at are google ads, and other plain text ads. I pretty much always google for "widget reviews". I do two passes at trade shows, one in t-shirt and jeans - being invisible makes it easier to check everything out, then I go back in some sort of corporate wear and talk to the folks whose products I spotted yesterday. (maybe that means you shouldn't write off the folks in t-shirts and torn jeans, I dunno). Don't *ever* spam. Don't ever do anything that looks like spam. If you're on slashdot or usenet giving advice on a similar subject to what you're selling, say "Caveat: I work for company X, and I sell these things" along with your advice. There's a company in Australia called "Underdog Leathers" - they make pretty decent leathers for motorcyclists, but they have issues making sales with usenet folks, 'cos one of their guys spent a lot of time on usenet saying "Check out underdog leathers, I heard they're great" without ever divulging his interest. He got caught out, he lost a lot of sales. No-one minds you combining advice and a feww plug, so long as you're honest about it. All in all, I think it's probably a lot cheaper to market in a customer friendly way than it is to be a spamming cold calling bastard!
Finally, know this: If you fax me, or call me, or put glossy brochures in my snailmail box, and I didn't ask you to do that, I'm not gonna buy your product from you, ever. In fact, I'm such a spitefull prick that if I like your product, I'll go and source the same thing from someone else.
I hope that lot helps!
I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
SPAM! Millions and millions of SPAMS!
And newsgroup posts! There are at least 40,000 newsgroups. Say you send ten posts to each newsgroup each day, that's 400,000 posts per day or 146 million posts per year!
Or you can skip computers and go with a real-world direct advertizing. Buy a few cases of spraypaint (it's cheaper by the case). You can spraypaint your contact number on walls, windows, cars, everywhere.
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
while :; do echo ATDT1800whatever >/dev/modem; sleep 60; done
Assume I was drunk when I posted this.
Unfortunately, all the anti-unsolicited-fax laws, like much of the malarky the government passes that it expects to magically work, didn't. I ended up just disconnecting my fax line and I don't use faxes any more. E-mail file-attachments basically make faxes obsolete anyway, but it does suck that marketers ruined the whole thing. No more fax line for me.
If they are doing business in the USA, they probably do come under jurisdiction of the US court system. Consult your lawyer.
So I'm meant to subsidise your business startup costs with my fax paper, my toner, and my time? Fuck you! If you want to make me aware of your business and your fine products, then do what reputable businesses do, and pay for an advert in the newspapers.
First, a bit about UK law, which they do have to comply with if they are doing this from the UK. If you contact them directly and ask to be removed from their list, then they are committing an offense if they call you again.
The FPS is a UK-wide do not call list maintained by the Direct Marketers Association. All marketers are supposed to treat it the same as having called them directly to be removed from the list, but the only penalty for not following this seems to be a slap on the wrist and maybe getting booted out of the DMA. The DMA is not interested in enforcing the law, particularly against non-members.
Ultimately, enforcement is up to Ofcom and the Information Commissioner. If you do make a complaint, be sure to include the response you got from FPS, I'm sure they'd be interested to see how self-policing by the DMA really works.
I'm in Sydney too.
And I've had the same problem.
Regarding faxes, I have started invoicing the company for my time and effort involved in receiving their fax. I start at $110 per page which is GST inclusive. They have opted in to MY business relationship. If they don't pay up I report them to Credit Agencies as default accounts (See Baycorp). I don't know how legal all this is, but it seems to work. you get some majorly pissed off people calling back OR you get $110 pocket money.
According to this site eFax is actually a propagator of fax spam.
Track them down and kill them.
And no, I'm not joking. They deserve death.
No, death is too good for them. I'm thinking something more along the lines of Vogon poetry or fome fruit and a piece of string....
The Anonymous Bastard
Do remember that the recipient of an 800 call gets your phone number reported to them.
No they don't. They get a report of the number of complete and incomplete calls made from your area code, in the 3 different time-of-day codes (day, evening, and weekend). They'd see that 20 calls came from your area code, and the total number of minutes in each time-of-day category, but they wouldn't see the individual numbers that made the calls.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Why doesn't the government arrest them for bypassing security in order to gain unauthorized access to your computer? Because the government hasn't had its feet held to the fire and made to do its one legitimate job (defense of persons and property).
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
I trust that they at least got the word to let Prince Albert out of the can before he suffocated.
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
When you start receiving repeated offers from a fax marketer, determine who the company really is, play along to get them to send a for-real offer via fax, then fax them a rejection of their offer and fax them a counteroffer to "evaluate future fax advertising materials". for $500.00 per each junk advertising fax you receive in the future.
Note specifically in your counteroffer fax that you are responding to their initial fax offer and their faxed followup for-real offer. Throw in a few terms and conditions like: liquidated damages of $2500 (or the maximum your local small claims court will give), net 30 billing, the name you will bill them under (such as "Advertising Evaluation Services Company"), and MOST IMPORTANT: TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN ACCEPT YOUR COUNTEROFFER BY SENDING ANOTHER FAX ADVERTISEMENT FOR THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES TO YOUR FAX NUMBER, THE SAME ONE THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN USING. Otherwise (you tell them) they no longer have your permission to use your computer and computer supplies (such as fax paper and toner) by sending advertisements to your fax number.
Now, when you receive their next fax, do exactly what you said you would do in your counteroffer: take a look at it, then prepare a bill for your time and send it to their billing office. They may pay it right away, especially if it looks official, you use some business-like name and provide a nice classy professional description of your services. If they do not pay, after a couple months file suit in small claims court for the maximum small claims amount allowed, typically $2000-5000 or so. (assuming, of course, your faxed counteroffer had a per-occurence liquidated damages clause of whatever that maximum is.
So what happens? They may pay automatically. If not, you file suit in small claims. By the time they realize that they have made an offer (the initial fax and/or the followup fax), received a counter offer (your fax back to them with your rejection and your modified terms) and have accepted the counteroffer (when they kept sending you advertisements), it will be too late. You will have hardcopies of their initial offer, your counteroffer, and copies of the faxes you received in response to your counteroffer. If I were a small claims judge, I would see this as a slam dunk case in your favor, and would be laughing hysterically in chambers afterward when I ordered them to cough up the cash. Of course, it only works if the company is local or regional and therefore amenable to small claims.
You see, the internet and fax machines permit them to go make offers like crazy, throwing trash terms and advertisements at everyone heedlessly. They do not check up on who is sending the offers out, whether illegally to blocked numbers or not. They just don't care. Their management systems are not tight and things (like obeying the law and actually reading your counteroffer) fall between the cracks.
The process I describe above, as long as you respond to their faxes, as long as you tell them very plainly exactly what you are going to do and how you will bill them, etc, and as long as you keep paper copies of all the faxes you receive from them and send to them, cannot be considered as fraud. Believe me, if they catch on only after paying several of your bills, they will feel like utter fools, but there is no judge in the land who would find your actions to be fraudulent or criminal if you were quite upfront. Indeed, most would gleefully realize how you finessed the fax monsters and order them to pay up immediately in small claims.
NOTE: I am not your attorney. If you want an attorney, hire one. If you are interested in this idea, take it to your local attorney and get his opinion.
Call 'em up and ask for more information. Maybe you'll get enough info on the Florida company to complain to the authorities in Florida.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Hi there. I got fax spammed last week on my voice line. Very annoying. So I hooked up my modem and had a look at the actual fax when the spamming system redialled my number. It was a ringtone advertisement for www.beltonen.nl (yes, I live in the Netherlands.) According to our nic, the owner of the site is Denda Multimedia, based in the Netherlands. I called them up and asked them to remove my number from their database. Also, I asked them how they got my number and how they got the idea that I have a fax running on my number. Reply: they bought it from a company called xpedite (www.xpedite.co.uk) based in London. Could this be your bad guy??
Consider, as point of interest, that the phone system itself is responsible for some misdials. The original analog phone system design requirement was for high availability, i.e. the system is always up and running. The error rate in connecting calls was (quite reasonably) a lower priority, as that's a minor nuisance at best (1% of dialed calls going astray will be little noticed nor long remembered; 1% no-dialtone in a year is 3.65 days, which is VERY objectionable).
As a consequence, the classic phone system's inherent misdial rate is nontrivial, and is likely to be a significant fraction of misdialed calls, after user error. I suspect this trend continues to be the case with the mostly-digital systems now in use (anyone know the DTMF mis-recognition rate?). Soooo, not ALL of those wrong numbers are the fault of the caller...
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
I called the number today..
....
Them: 'Answering service'
Me: 'I'd like to book a flight to Cancun' (we get faxes with Cancun as one of the destinations)
T: 'I'm not sure what you're talking about'
M: 'I got a fax with this number on it. I was just calling to find out more information.'
T: 'Well, I'm still not sure what you're talking about'
M: 'I get a fax every week from this number.. I just thought I'd call and find out more information. It suggests flights to Cancun, Florida, et. cetera.'
T: 'We've been getting a lot of calls lately...'
the rest is a few exchanges shrunk down to a few
M: The faxes I get don't have a company name, just a number.
T: What's the number?
M: 1 800
T: That's the number you're calling.
M: I'm just trying to figure out what's going on. I'll check my number and try and get more information.
T: ok, have a nice day.
M: thanks, you too.
Poor answering service lady. We seriously do get faxes all the time with travel offers. It may not be the same company.. It doesnt ever have a company name on it. I just threw it in the trash yesterday. Wish i had that 800 number memorized. (I should by now)..
It sounds like they're too cheap to have an actual operator on staff and they contract out to someone else who call forwards it to the office when a valid call goes through. I'd take it easy on the answering serivce lady, she'll probably quit today. She probably answers phone for several 800 numbers.
One thing worth noting is that ANI *is not* the same thing as Caller ID - it's been around longer, it operates differently, and it's not blocked by *67 or whatever is used in your area.
Plenty more technical information is available if you're really curious, just search for it.
fencepost
just a little off
Conclusions jumped to a bit quickly. I don't have to know how, because you can buy shit to do it, like Here. And I imagine spammers of whatever ilk are their main customers. So you're wrong on both counts.
An inbound call blocker based on caller ID is a brilliant idea and would sell very well, especially if it had an RS-232 interface on it.
So brilliant it was invented years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about AC.
Nuisance/Unsolicited calls or fax are certainly against the rules and the company can be cut off of even prosecuted.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk.
I don't see Flamingo Travel's name in there anywhere, but I'm guessing they've got multiple versions of their spam ad. There's some stuff scrawled down the side which I can't read in the fax - I'm guessing that it's whatever fax machine headers they're doing? Is it legible?
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
and some innocent parties are falling victim
And that was before they got Slashdotted...
The original fax is at http://www.iotashan.com/spamfax.gif. Ask them about the Disney Vacation for $99.
Behold the glorious bragging rights
jason.r.miller@dmu.edu
jason.r.miller@dmu.edu
here are some more numbers being used to spam disney vacations 800-456-0034 800-456-9302 800-676-8028 800-349-0569 these people are worse than the other one
tip ask for steve dickerson owner of the company located in casselberry fl he is a real jerk he thinks he cant be stopped !!!!!!!!!!
here is the real numbers for the spamers 800-456-0034 800-456-9302 800-676-8028 800-349-0569
i asked for the owner and i guess i got the guy because he got all worked up call 800-456-0034 800-456-9302 800-676-8028 800-349-0569
Hey there,
a mingo-travel.com
This is the poor shmuck with the same name as the mass spam faxer. I forgive all the "Karma Whores" out there for calling and faxing us. The only thing we are really guilty of is naming a travel agency in Pennsylvania after a skinny legged pink tropical bird. We have nothing to do with spam faxes or emails...it wasn't too long ago when I believed that spam was mere luncheon meat. I wouldn't touch the spam of pork shoulder and ham and I wont touch techno spam made by a pig either.
If the slash doters have any power for change, I would appreciate your assistance. A call to arms if you will.
I challenge you all to write to the Florida attorney general and send him copies of all the bad flamingo faxes and copies of this site.
Today we recieved a letter from a lawyer in Missouri that wants to sue us for sending the faxes we don't send. I am not frightened, because we are innocent and that is easy enough to prove. I am annoyed that what we have spent 5 years builing online and 19 years building in the business world in general is getting it's reputation sullied by a spam animal!!
PLEASE HELP!!
Maureen Kelly Carreño
Director of Leisure Sales
The INNOCENT Flamingo Travel Group
www.flamingo-travel.com
maureencarreno@fl
1-800-783-9203
"come enjoy the florida sun-n-fun!"
$79 price per person / dbl. occupancy
your package includes
orlando -disney area 4 days / 3 nights + 2 free theme park passes
ft. lauderdale FL
3 days / 2 nights
daytona beach fl
3 days / 2 nights
plus mexico get-a-way
5 days / 4 nights your choice of puerto vallarta or cancun
2 round trip airline tickets
plus 2 nights acoomodations at your choide of
las vegas or jamaica
call now toll free 800 783 9203
limited availability blah blah
to be removed blah blah 1-888-211-4409