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VoIP Questioned
87C751 writes "C|Net is carrying a very FUDdy story on the downside of VoIP telephony. Alongside the reasonable point of 911 dialing being unavailable during service and power outages, the writeup mentions broadband over power lines as a possible solution to the power failure problem. (talk about your cognitive dissonance!) It also notes that VoIP customers may not be listed in the local phone book, causing problems with "major fast food companies" (do they mean pizza deliveries?), and that Tivo requires a POTS line for initial setup (which sounds like Tivo's problem, not VoIP's)."
huh, my Series2 Tivo setup just fine over my broadband connection...
That's not (in any aspect that I can see, anyway) cognitive dissonance....
Seems VoIP is still in it's infancy...
I'll be waiting for it to move out of Gen-1 status to the Gen-2 or Gen-3 devices.
What amazes me is the lack of talk regarding the security of these devices...
Tivo may not work, but Dish Network's DVR does. I moved this weekend, and had Dish Network set up. I already had an internet connection, so when the dish installers asked for a phone line, I quickly unpacked my Vonage box, plugged it in and let it initialize, then plugged the DVR into it. It's working without any troubles now.
With that said, I love using Vonage, and hope I never have to deal with Verizon or SBC again.
This is a joke, right?
All the problems he mentions would certainly be valid points, but only if you're dumb enough to completely replace your phone system with VoIP!
I have VoIP, but I kept one of my POTS lines when I switched. Without long distance service, it costs me a miniscule amount per month, and I can still use it for my TiVo, alarm system, 911, and so on. Everything he brings up is such a non-issue, it's almost funny.
The only valid point he has is that it's difficult to get yourself listed in the phone book, but that's not a technical issue and should be resolved shortly.
This space intentionally left blank.
Was that they did their interviews using a VoIP handset, and couldn't make out some of the answers.
The Tivo series 2 units *do not* require a phone line for initial setup. It said (or possibly still says this) on the Tivo web site but you can easily find information to set it up via broadband. I know it doesn't because I set mine up without a phone line as all I have is my cell phone.
It also notes that VoIP customers may not be listed in the local phone book, causing problems with "major fast food companies"
;-)
That's horrible! Are you implying that some telemarketers won't be capable of easily obtaining my telephone number, and the local telephone company won't be capable of charging me to opt-out of the directory?
What a shame!
Do you like German cars?
Well, I guess that solves the problem of your internet connection being up while your power is down. I don't think it's going to help you much, though. I have an alternate solution, and it's called a UPS. Of course, if your ISP doesn't have their equipment on a battery backup, then you're screwed. Mediacom in Lake County, CA seems to have a very short-life battery backup on some of their hardware, because their network would actually go down before my UPS ran out (only a 650VA, and I had a 19" monitor at the time, plus an Athlon Tbird 1.4GHz) when the power failed, which is a common occurrence there.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Any new technology will face the exact same *kind* of issues. Users won't like it because of x, y, or z. The real issue isn't the technology itself but how well the businesses manage it, promote it, and so forth. Similarly, if usability doesn't improve, the issues in the article will become quite real and slow (or stop) any real progress in the market, and that would be the real crime.
How to Download YouTube Videos
Wow. that article is a total clusterfsck...
Broadband over power is dead due to FCC restriction...
TiVos can use an ethernet link and DHCP to get their updates... And besides, they make VoIP phone adapters...
And who wants their home number in a book anyway? I've forgone the "unlisted number" charge, and as a result received more phone spam than god ever knew...
Kinda makes me wonder who's pushing them to get this published on the website. Apparently noone interested in facts, or logic...
If I needed to dial 911, I'd use my mobile phone rather than the POTS/VoIP one, because it's in my pocket all the time, I'd be able to get the call made faster. I don't see this being an issue for most people. Anyway, my POTS telephone system (BT XD500 DECT) requires mains power to operate. If my VoIP doesn't work, chances are my POTS phones isn't working either.
Follow me
If you get one of the newer boxes, plug a USB network dongle into the back of the thing, hook it up to your LAN, and use the proper codes and config and such, it can do the initial setup via the network. It's not obvious via the menus and such, I grant you, but it can be done.
Which is anyway beside the point, as a lot of the VoIP services have boxes available that you can plug a POTS phone into, some of which can handle modem traffic just fine.
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I'm hoping Tivo does away with the phone requirement when they come out with their HD units. It's asinine to rely on landlines when so many people are moving to exclusively mobile phone + broadband internet. Seems like they're spiting the demographic most likely to buy their new products.
I considered voip earlier this year, for an outbound connection for an alarm system dialer. There don't seem to be any "per-minute" type voip plans though where you only pay for use. Nor do there seem to be "outbound only". I can do without the telemarketers (do-not-call isn't enough) that come along with a land line.
or they wouldnt deliver to me. They wouldnt deliver to me even if I offered to prepay with a credit card.
Other pizza places dont have a problem with placing an order through a cell phone.
Of course this ignorant policy cost them a customer.
I imagine a VOIP line would cause even more problems.
The only issue I had with my VoIP (Vonage) service was yesterday with a disconnected call to my cable company about intermittent dropped cable modems connections.
I realized what happened and whipped out the cell phone.
As for the other points -
1. I'd rather not be listed.
2. I've had no problems with fast food delivery.
3. ReplayTV uses a broadband connection.
4. I have a UPS for the VoIP box, cable modem, router, cordless phone base-station. As long as the power outtage doesn't effect the cable company, I'm all set.
5. 911 - Between what Vonage DOES offer for 911 service, 2 cell phones (mine and my wife's), and close proximity to neighbors (townhouse)... I feel safe enough.
I've never been a big fan of the VoIP. Seems like a solution in search of a problem to me. I understand with large companies out there that run thousands of lines out a building, but for residential use, it just doesn't make sense. Am I missing something? My boss asked me if we should implement a VoIP solution for our (15-person) company, and my reaction has always been why? We already get dirt cheap (practically free) unlimited long distance, local calls, plus we have an analog phone switch that works fine. I have been seeking enlightenment in this issue since the idea first came out. My theory is that it involves people with too much time on their hands...
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
Funny I just setup my brand new DirecTV HD Tivo via a vonage line. No special codes, no special hardware (just what Vonage sent me a Cisco ATA) no fax line option. Realy what it is is persistances I probably redialed 20 times before it worked. My Googling for help led me down all sorts of roads with prefixes even plugging it into my fax line via vonage.
What it seems to come down to is packet loss I've been told that Packet loss is what kills modem connections over VoIP and that Vonage can alter your packet size to help compensate. I was trying late afternoon and had issues my Tivo has since automaticaly dialed up and is fine on Vonage probably due to the low packet loss in the early morning. I didnt even have to call vonage. It dosent work well but it does work.
No sir I dont like it.
If my Nortel phone can't tell that it is plugged into a Motorola VOIP modem rather than a plug in the wall, how does a TIVO know?
Is this really a problem or simply conjecture?
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
I've owned four Tivos over the years and only once did I have to use a phone line for the initial setup, my very first Tivo back when there was no network support on them.
Your 48v (?) POTS line continues to provide current during emergency because the telco has backup power supply: there's virtually no complexity on the user side (the phone is powered from the line, and analogue phones are dead simple and largely robust electromechanical device).
On the other hand, even if your telco can keep PPP up during an emergency, and even if the telco pulled out 911 VOIP at the exchange and routed it on high availability circuits to operators to minimise internetworking failures, you still have the horrendous problem at the user side: i.e. complex customer home equipment that runs off domestic power that has large number of failure modes.
Even mobiles are better in an emergency (i.e. handsets have portable power, and the basestation and infrastructure has emergency power + failover features).
So even if you get QoS and all other other things in place to make VOIP really work: how the hell are you going to ensure high availability?
Otherwise, VOIP is going to great for multimedia conferencing and everything else.
And what about voice spam?
Your VoIP phone is sitting right there for any spammer to call. Now, there is no cost "barrier" for them to call you from outside the country. Now, most slashdotters will respond that they are l33t enough to create a whitelist-only calling system but the average Joe generally isn't offered this luxury and wouldn't be technical enough to understand how to implement it.
VoIP will become a new conduit for spam.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
2. If the VoIP world goes the way of SIP then for it to truly work will require SIP service providers so that you can connect transparently to VoIP networks from any point in the world. Presumably there will be a charge for this service from those providers who will, in turn record customer account detailes and "numbers" no differently to the way traditional PSTN service providers do.
3. Even though there is no centralised email database, this does not stop someone who I want to email me (as well as others who I don't want to email me!) from getting in contact simply by handing out my email address to the appropriate people.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
For instance, a VoIP phone number won't likely be included in most phone directories, according to executives from various VoIP service providers, including VoicePulse, Voiceglo and Vonage. That could lead to trouble dealing with businesses such as banks and major fast food companies that often check local phone listings to verify addresses.
Am I to believe that if I am not listed in the phone book I can't get a checking account? So EVERYONE who has an unlisted number is in the same boat? Stupid is as stupid says.
And why is C/NET of all people running this? I have been in the telecom business for over 20 years. This sounds like something I would expect from Verizon, not C/NET.
--- Tolerance is the axiomatic "virtue" of those without convictions ---
I would say it's less of a biz issue and more of a social issue. Most of society didn't grow up with the kinds of technology advancement we have today.
There is also what I have been told many times. "We've always done it that way, why change." Most people don't like change and that is a big change.
Evolution or ID?
do power over ethernet, then it can be just line a standard phone line and no worries about power outages.
Current Setup: Directv Tivo and Vonage with Comcast cable modem.
I had a regular phone line during the initial setup of my directv/tivo service. A few months later, I got rid of SBC and subscribed to Vonage. Fantastic service and quality of calls, I'll never go back. But, the daily/weekly Tivo calls always fail. I've read reports on the vonage forum that some people get the daily call to work (via a DSL filter), but not such luck for me. I'm going on 70+ days without a call into tivo, and other then the occasional warning from tivo that the daily calls were not made, I still have full service. Hopefully it will continue to work. I did converse with Vonage customer service (who tried to be very helpful), and they said that due to the UDP / Vonage connection, it would be virtually impossible to guarantee a Tivo modem call. Has anyone else experienced this issue, or found a resolution?
Actually it you (and the submitter it seems) read the article it has to do with a delivery company verifying your phone number in the phone book. This seems silly to me either way, though, since some people have been unlisted for as long as I can remember.
A lot of these problems are also applicable or alleviated with a cell phone. I don't have a land line, (well, one for DSL, but no phone #), and the papa johns can still find me.
I do security
Given the local telephone monopolies.
As regulated monopolies, they're quick to point out any of the restrictions under which they must operate and want to insure that any newcomers to the market be equally or more burdened.
Roads are publicly owned and maintained; why not public information corridors, too?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
One of the problems that VoIP doesn't have right now, but will if the INDUCE Act passes is getting Hollywood's approval for innovative new services: Hatch's Hit List #7 - VoIP
Sounds like a benefit to me! During a recent Vonage outage caused by a broken T3 connection, I was told by customer service that they had redundant connections. Either the guy didn't know what redundant meant, or he was lying. The virtual phone number feature is great; I have an east coast number and a west coast number. The only downside is the doubling of "I'm sorry, you have a wrong number" calls; some of these coming at ungodly hours.
All of the concerns listed are legitimate, and have kept me from considering replacing my land line.
Here in Maryland, hurricane Isabel knocked out our power for a week last summer. Land line phones still worked, so we could call around to our friends and family, find someone who still has juice, head over and ride out the storm. With VOIP, our options would be drive around the state aimlessly, or hunt down a payphone, etc.. Forget that. And if the storm had of hit us hard, knocked a tree into our kitchen or something, I'm sorry, but 911 service is not a small, inconsequential feature that VOIP-zealots make it out to be.
The fast food delivery problem is less severe, but still there. Many pizza joints wouldnt even send a car out if they couldnt verify the address. They've been jerked around by cranks too many times. I've had friends with unlisted numbers or who were blocking caller-id have pizza joints hang up on 'em.
It's a nice idea, but one whos time hasn't come yet. At least not as the primary phone for my residence. Not until my connection to the 'net has the same level of reliability as my land-line.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
... now children, give me a 2000 word essay on VoIP.
I'd imagine that the bulk of kids these days would probably research the subject matter slightly better.
This writer clearly has NO IDEA on what he is talking about. Lets see if we can refute everything he says:
"TiVo, the digital video recording service, for example, requires a standard home phone line to complete the initial setup. Otherwise, you "can't get TiVo,"
I'm sure TiVo would be absolutely thrilled to use broadband for completing the setup. Just think of all the money they spend on 1800 calls for people to finish the setup. I'm sure they'd also be pretty happy to get viewer stats more or less in real time.
"That could lead to trouble dealing with businesses such as banks and major fast food companies that often check local phone listings to verify addresses."
How is this different from not being listed ? Why not raise the point that AT&T / Vonage need to provide a reliable database rather than spreading this line of "Fear".
"Some home alarm systems have trouble with broadband connections, or their manufacturers don't yet trust the reliability of the Internet."
The "some" being the companies that are too lazy to use more modern methods for monitoring.
"During a power outage, a VoIP phone is only as good as any battery backups on hand, because delivering power through the broadband connection isn't possible on a wide commercial basis. An emerging alternative broadband-delivery technique, broadband over power line, will solve this problem, but wide deployment is years away."
Where do I begin. Complete rubbish. Author probably read an article about it last month, so feels like he has to include it this month, just to get one back on New Scientist.
From here on in the article, we get a "dump" of interesting facts and other pieces of information that seem to completely go against what the author has just said.
Complete FUD. I wonder who's paying for the article.
[ Monday is a terrible way to spend one seventh of your life. ]
That could lead to trouble dealing with businesses such as banks and major fast food companies that often check local phone listings to verify addresses.
Really? I haven't had a landline in almost 2 years (wifey and I use cellphones) and I've never had a problem getting any food delivered or banking.
My cellphone number isn't listed. I don't see why this is any different than the situation with VoIP service. The other "drawbacks" seem FUDdy too: my town 911 service uses my cellphones GPS to find me if I need it. Doesn't VoIP have a way to se location for this purpose (I think so)? Power failure isn't a problem for cellphone, of course. I guess this might be an issue for VoIP, but how often does the power fail (where I live, never had it happen in 8 years.)
Despite its drawbacks, VoIP is attracting a growing number of consumers, although significantly more people are dropping their traditional phone lines and relying solely on a cell phone, which faces many of the same drawbacks.
Again, what drawbacks? I live near Boston -- are things really that different in the rest of the country?
everything in moderation
Yesterday, my daughter told me that she was having trouble hearing me because her next door neighbor's phone conversation was too loud. She even recognized the voice! Don't think for a minute that no one can hear. Even if you are on a wire connection, the other end may not be.
...and its great. I talk with our developers that are all over the world for nothing. Its also nice because I am a 20 hour drive from the office so I dont have to go in to answer my phone calls. The Asterisk voicemail system even emails me a wav file with Voice Mail in case I am not looking at the phone.
These articals are just FUD.
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
There's a downside and an upside to everything...for me its a real simple cost issue. It would cost me at least 3x more per month on my phone bill (if not more) with a regular PTSN line than my VoIP connection...AND of course I can take my number with me wherever I go...try that with a regular phone line C|Net FUD mongers!!
It's kind of funny how the article seems to be just trying to find something to complain about, no matter how trivial the complaints are. It reads kind of like a news story from the Daily Show
911 - Cell phone still works, can keep around an old, non-subscribed phone just for that, just have to keep it plugged in
Phone book - I'd rather not be in there anyway, anyone who wants to call me knows how to get in touch with me, anyone who doesn't know how shouldn't need to get in touch.
Pizza - I worked at a pizza place, just give us your phone number and we'll plug it in for you, no muss, no fuss
Tivo - broadband versions or roll-your own..
The benefits of a phone line and unlimited LD for 20$ a month outweigh these "problems" by a mile..
--Less Thinkin', More Drinkin'...
Now, we won't go into how you can use a prepaid card to call your friends on this, because this sentence explains it. (BTW, it has a phone number that can be called and rung - or at least mine did in 1998-1999.) But, note I mentioned you can call 911 if you have a dialtone on a disconnected line. So the point of 911 not being available is, as a general rule, moot.
Get a $10 corded phone at radio shack if you don't already have one (one that DOES NOT rely on wall power, but phone power) and hook it to your wall outlet. If you get a tone, keep it - it's $10 of emergency preparedness equipment. (Yes, Virginia, that cellphone might fail you at the last second.) If not, well, your call if you wanna keep it.
This sig no verb.
causing problems with "major fast food companies" (do they mean pizza deliveries?)
There are times when I refuse to be a demographic. Pizza Hut has not had problems when I call in an order and tell them no, they cannot have my phone number. Dominoes, however, refused to take my order even though I was going to pick it up because they don't deliver to my neighborhood. The drone on the phone not only didn't understand why I wasn't going to give him my unlisted phone number, he was surprisingly rude about it as well. Consequently I've not bought from them since.
Since when is it FUD to look at the potential downsides of a given issue or technology?
If one only looks at the benefits with out being aware of potential costs or flaws, one sets themselves up for ultimate failure due to ignorance and blindness.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
The reference was probaly refering to Series 1 Stand Alone (SA) Tivo's. The Series 2 Tivo's can get the guide over bradband. My DirecTv Tivo's (both series 1 and 2), like your Dish Net DVR, has never seen a telephone line nor a broadband connection, they get thier data via the satellite.
I've always gotten around the charge for an unlisted number by simply giving them a bogus name to publish in the book.
I've seen better forward-looking statements from a Magic 8-ball than from this article. Of course there will be growing pains, but it's not the fault of the technology for introducing them!
...will my 300 baud acustic modem still work over VOIP?
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I would love to order Papa Johns online... however I don't think they are going to drive the 60 miles from their nearest store to my house.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Interogater: Where were you during the night of the 35th to 36th last month?
VoiP: Uuuuuhmmm....
SCNR
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
What trojan horse? What virus?
All I know is my SBC land line has gone up 3 times in the past 2 years. Screw them.
And the inability to predict them are why they will be problems. Foreseeable problems, with VoiP as with any other endeavour, are just that. You know the problem exists, and solutions and / or workarounds will be discovered in turn. But until you end up trying to implement this on a wide scale, you simply will not know what the problems will ultimately be.
END COMMUNICATION
As an amateur radio operator I enjoy having the HF bands in a semi-useable state. BPL is a bad idea in my humble opinion.
-73s
I have been using my GSM standard digital phone exclusively for 4 years. I have dealt with most everything listed in this article. None of those things are of concern to me. While I can't help but wonder why TIVO needs a standard phone line to set up, thats TIVO's fault. If I really want, I'll just slap a TV Card into my computer, problem solved, one less sale for a company with an idiotic policy. And for that matter, like most Americans, I could probably do with watching less TV.
I used to have problems with some companies not accepting that I did not have a land line (Video Rentals, etc...), but have found in the last couple years as it has become increasingly common for people to drop their land lines, that companies have adjusted. For that matter, I always figure if they can't accept I don't have a land line, they can do without my business, that is capitalism after all. Those compnaies that adjust to the new world of cell phones and VOIP will survive, those that do not, won't. I for one have never had a problem going elsewhere if a video store or pizza parlor is so backwards as to not want my business over a telephone number. I'm usually all too ready to drop a polite note to that companies management explaining why they lost a customer. But again, It has been at least 3 years since I ran into any problem like that. As for not being in the phone book, I find that to be a definite plus. As I am on a "cell" phone, I almost never get telephone solicitations. Those rare times I do, all I have to ask is if they are aware they are calling a cell phone. At that point the solicitor profusely apologizes and asks if there is a better number to reach me at, to which I gladly respond, no.
This is not the sig you are looking for...
30 seconds with google reveals that he's very much against VOIP, and very much a supporter of the phone industry.
God I love the internet - every opinion you've ever had displayed for the world to take out of context forever...
'Don't worry' said the trees when they saw the axe coming, 'The handle is one of us.'
Why not add a little GPRS receiver into the box. Much like many cell phones, this would basically give the same E911 functionality. Or even a regular GPS receiver that could consult a list of known 911 centers based on location.
I think that could be the day free VOIP stops.
Yesterday, my daughter told me that she was having trouble hearing me because her next door neighbor's phone conversation was too loud. She even recognized the voice! Don't think for a minute that no one can hear. Even if you are on a wire connection, the other end may not be.
The ramifications go far. Lawyers can't legally demand attorney-client privilege for any information discussed over cell or cordless phones. I wonder what, if any, further legal statutes are needed?
"...The Bell operating companies, comprised of Verizon, Qwest Communications International, SBC and BellSouth, prefer to wait until they build high-speed fiber-optic connections to homes for their all-out VoIP launches."
Uh-huh... we'll all have telepathic brain implants by the time this happens.
sig has been sent away for a few small repairs...
... even out of the box with appropriate USB ethernet/wifi widget if you get a new one with Tivo software v4+..
When I first got mine I had to leave it with my folks for a few days since I didn't have an analog line, but once the system got its update I brought it home and got it working. It's been great ever since, though the whipperschnappers these days got it easy with the free HMO and whatnot..
I think this was on Slashdot at some point, but here is the original:
http://www.beigerecords.com/cory/pizza_party/
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush Nov. 2005
VoIP doesn't meet this criteria, thus laws may need to be modified to account for this.
Additionally, I don't understand the 911 hub-bub anyway . . . cell phones didn't have 911 for years . . . even while people were replacing their POTS with a cellphone in the house
yeah, this isn't the most technically gifted article, but I didn't consider it FUD. I thought it gives a good warning (considering the audience for that site). VOIP isn't quite what is is advertised at. It's good to have an idea of what it DOES give you before relying on it. Buyer-beware. The only thing that looked actually wrong was the Broadband over powerline crap (if your power is out,um...so is broadband over POWERLINE. Hello)
I took this as a way of waring people who are not as likely to know the limitations to look it up first, which is needed with the state of VOIP right now. Just the 911 thing is enough to think about (yeah, you don't need it much, but then again, do buy insurance because becasue you are planning on being in a wreck? It's just gotta be there for when it's needed.)
AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
The guy came, and my internet and cable were fine. But I forgot to check for a dialtone before he left. It (of course) didn't work. Turns out they don't offer phone service in my area but hadn't informed me of the fact, or the fact they had cancelled my order for it. Anyway, no phone line and I'm sitting here with my TiVo 2.
Ok, no problem, I'll go get a wireless card and hook it up to my network. Done. No problem. Its downloading guides but it still thinks I live in the next town and the guide is the wrong one.
Ok, no problem, I call my friend who work for TiVo. He says I need to do a system reset. A system reset to change my service? A system reset.
Ok, no problem, I do a system reset. It starts asking me for my dialing options. Crap, it was just on the internet. Why is it asking for this now? I can't get it to work. I call up my friend at TiVo and he says they do the initial TiVo setup over the internet all the time with the latest firmware version (and I should have that version). However, they use wired ethernet. It might make a difference. He then told me that he was tired of answering my stupid questions and if I had any more I should read the bloody TiVo forums.
Problem - the forums say I'm screwed. My options are to buy ay wired usb etheret for my TiVo, or go door to with my TiVo under my arm and find a neighbor who will take pity on me. I don't know the neighbors. Crap.
So an hour later I'm in the living room of the 80 year old woman next door. I hook my TiVo into her VCR and spend about half an hour trying to figure out how to get the picture through. Turns out it needs a tape in the VCR. Ok. Picture. Great. Just plug it into the phone and we're good to go. But wait. No jack. Crap. Her phone is 50 years old and hard wired into the house.
An hour later I'm at some other neighbors with my TiVo, and my own VCR trying to fend off their cat, while my TiVo goes through its hour of setup. Whew. Finally.
I get it home and it works with my wireless network. Great.
Still have to get a phone though. Maybe VoIP is right for me? I find 1TouchTone.com and order it. $15 a month. Not bad. It comes, I plug the box into my router, and the phone into the box. It works! I go rip the phone companies wires off the outside of my house, and plug the phone box into a nearby phone jack. All the phones in my house get dial tone. Sweet.
I've really gotten addicted to the voicemail features. I get emails saying that I have a new voicemail. I get SMS saying I have new voicemail. The light on my phone blinks saying I have new voicemail. The email has an attachment with the wav file of my voicemail.
Comcast hasn't complained - yet.
I've been a Vonage subscriber for 6 months now. A few notes:
1. I hooked my vonage unit into the core wiring of my house (unplugged the qwest line, and plugged vonage in there instead). This makes it so that my phone infrastructure inside my house remains unchanged. My wife wouldn't even know we didn't have a standard POTS line if I hadn't told her. All of the phone jacks in the house work as one would expect them to. (I even take advantage of the multiple phone-line support provided by the Vonage unit -- the phone jack in my office is wired into the other line).
2. This means my TiVo (all three of them) work great.
3. 911 calling is a feature provided by Vonage. While I've not had to use it yet, Vonage makes it clear that this is included and available.
4. I've never run into a "major fast food" company (pizza hut?) that relied on a phone directory to deliver pizza. My pizza's make it just fine.
5. The guy who wrote this article is a retard who doesn't know anything about consumer VOIP offerings.
-- People who hate Windows use Linux. People who love UNIX use BSD.
I think that given the commentary, maybe a better headline for this would be "VOIP questioning questioned".
It also notes that VoIP customers may not be listed in the local phone book, causing problems with "major fast food companies" (do they mean pizza deliveries?), That's a luddite comment if I've ever heard one . . . I've ordered pizza/fast food via email before without any phone numbers/phone calls entering into the equation. To imply that pizza delivery places can't or will have difficulty adapting to VoIP is naive at best . . . (Note I'm not knocking the original topic poster that I quoted from, but rather the article that he cites)
When one of my friends was having phone problems, she came over to my place, set up the box, and then took it back home.
Just because it needs a phone line, doesn't mean it needs your phone line -- as well as I know, these things aren't tied to your phone like satellite dishes are (if you want to order pay-per-view on 'em)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
We just use a two port POTS voice card in all our equipment at remote sites. Gives you two lines in case of a failure of any type. One for 911 and one to try and continue some form of normal operation.
Thats a ridiculious argument.
unavailable during service and power outages
So is my ISDN line. If I wanted it to work during power outage, I'd need battery power for both the phone and the network terminator thingie. In such situatins GSM is the only useful thing.
There is a USB port where you can buy an ethernet adapter and plug it in. Can do wireless as well, although less wireless adapters are supported.
1) The price of VoIP's thriftiness
Sounds condescending to me, or designed to be scary, typical tag line to get you worked up over the topic. Passing judgement before the facts are presented.
2) If you have a home alarm system, need to dial 911, use TiVo or simply want your phone number included in the phone book, you're likely to be out of luck.
Home alarm system's and TiVo can change. TiVo is a simple non-essential piece of hardware which should change to accomodate such customers as VOIP catches on. Alarm systems will figure a way around this. Of course, if you feel you can expend money on an alarm system for your home, you can probably afford the current rates your phone company is charging. I'm not saying an alarm system is elitist... its just expensive.
As for phone listing, well damnit who cares? I'll pick up my next pizza. Besides, you can keep your old listing in the phone book when you switch to Vonage and as VOIP catches on this will be taken care of.
As for 911 dialing during power outages, the article willfully and obviously glosses over the possibility that people might have cell phones. This is what makes me feel this is FUDish, because, while the 911 issue is important, the article failed to cover this very important and obvious point. I believe they were afraid that the original alarmist tone of the article would have been defused because 911 dialing is important to everyone, while all those other points are only important to a select few.
3) VoIP certainly has it's selling points--unlimited local and long-distance dialing plans that are about 30 percent cheaper than standard services, dialing from any broadband connection and being able to choose a phone number regardless of your location--the TiVo situation if just the tip of the drawback iceberg.
First, try 50 percent, maybe more. Vonage has a plan for just $15 for 500 talk minutes, anywhere in the country. For local free calling and no special LD plans, Verizon charges me somewhere between $30 and $40.
Second, what the hell is the last part of that paragraph? It seems so cryptic to me.
4) Protecting your home could get tougher, as well. Some home alarm systems have trouble with broadband connections, or their manufacturers don't yet trust the reliability of the Internet.
Back to this a second, this sentences reeks of FUD, because it says "protecting your home could get harder." Not all of us buy alarm systems... goodness! I can't protect my home without a phone? GASP!
5) 911 calls over VoIP are usually routed through a third party, and there's been the occasional detour to an emergency call center in the wrong part of the country. Because of VoIP's mobility--subscribers can use any broadband connection anywhere--emergency operators won't automatically know where the person's calling from.
Facts please? I've heard of no such "detours." Can we have some proof to back this up please? Even instances from the slashdot community would be nice.
And yes, they do tout VOIP as being mobile, and yet 911 calls could be routed back home while you are on the road. However, this will be a learning point for early adopters, but future versions should handle this better. This is by design for the convenience of the customer.
6) The Bell operating companies, comprised of Verizon, Qwest Communications International, SBC and BellSouth, prefer to wait until they build high-speed fiber-optic connections to homes for their all-out VoIP launches. The so-called fiber-to-the-premises initiatives, however, could take a decade or more to complete.
Translation: They don't have the infrastructure yet and they don't want to kill their current phone business too fast
7) Both Cox and Comcast are promising faster VoIP rollouts.
Translation: they are counting on early adopters so that they can eat the baby bells' lunches.
8) Despite its drawbacks, VoIP is attractin
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Ever tried to use a cordless phone to dial 911 during a power outage? Guess what? It doesn't work. New tagline:
The price of 900 mhz's thriftiness
If you're thinking of dumping your wired phone for a cordless phone, you might want to reconsider.
All the first year psych students say Buzz word, say Buzz word.... Oh ya, uh huh, keep it going now.....
I would argue that in the profesional world (where VOIP is mostly used) has the same 911 problems as a standard PBX where any professional installer will install 'power fail' lines wired directly to POTS lines. As far as VOIP to 'Jow Homeowner' it's not there yet. But the 911 probles are not new. When cordless phones first became popular that same arguement was made that you had to have another phone in the house incase of a power outtage. Some people do follow this, but I have seen many that ignore this precausion There will problaly be similer apathy when/if VOIP for 'Joe Homeowner' takes off. Well, thats my two cents
As many on here can attest, the writer of said article raised issues that are miniscule but left out the most major concern with any VoIP deployment - QoS. The reason being that voice calls are very latency-sensitive as dropped or delayed packets make the phone conversation very choppy. If your voice packet was guaranteed high priority from start to destination, packetized voice can be carried over modem lines rather smoothly. On the other hand, without any prioritization, voice packets runs the risk of being dropped. Even inside a self contained LAN, VoIP calls can be disconnected, become jittery, and all kinds of other problems occur without any sort of quality of service. And, I doubt that the major backbone carriers are giving any priority to packets destined for Vonage's or AT&T's voice servers. So, once again, an article that could have hit the mark veered wide right by a mile.
"Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
VoIP into one of your phone plugs and Viola!
AFAIK, there's also still nothing to address the issue of isochronicity with VOIP, or, if the network is slow, you will be saying "Hello? Hello?" into your phone when sound from the other end drops out, only to arrive later.
People have a hard enough time dealing with the fact that their cordless phones don't work in a power outage; it's hardly FUD to point out that with VOIP their corded phones won't either unless their provider has installed UPSs throughout the network the provide the same backup capabilities that go along with POTS lines...
It was price to me. For a basic Verizon local line I was paying $23+ including fees and such. And I could only call my local area. And I only used it a relatively small amount of time per month. I used my cell for long distance. Now I have Vonages 500 minute plan and I can call anywhere in the US and Canada for 500 minutes a month. Which works out well b/c I have relatives far away so I don't have to worry about go over my cell minutes anymore. And it costs aroudn $17/month. So it saves me $6/month plus no more overage charges from my cell company.
I didn't even have to click the link to know this was a Ben Charney article. He's by far the worst reporter at CNET. 90% of his articles are chock-full of innaccuracies and false conclusions. This is just classic Charney reporting. It's amazing he still has a job - he gives CNET such a bad name.
your phone service? I am guessing maybe every couple of decades?
Take a tiny percent of the money you save and go on a nice vacation out of town when one approaches!
You can emulate a POTS line (FXO or FXS) from a VoIP service using a VoIP terminal adapter like those from Cisco (ATA-186, etc) or other vendors. It will allow you to plug any standard phone or device into a regular RJ-11 jack on the back and allow it to get DTMF and make a call. Really cool stuff. I have a Tivo, cable Internet access, a Cisco ATA-186, and I connect to works' phone system over SIP. Works like a charm. No land line what so ever.
1. I dont have a TIVO
;)
2. I dont WANT my vonage numer listed in the local phonebook (or anywhere else)
3. bellsouth and ATT can KISS MY UNLISTED NUMBER HAVING, NON PRICE-GOUGING, VOIP-USING ASS!!
ooh, btw, I love vonage..
Hands up who thinks that mybe VoIP might really take off? I have been using a really cool little VoIP program known as Skype which uses advanced P2P technology.
Skype claims to be the new MUST HAVE application... Is this the general view of the public?
Couldn't you put a small-ish battery in the VOIP box and have it switch over in case of power failure? I realize VOIP hardware is a lot more complex than POTS, but surely a laptop sized battery can keep just a VOIP system running for several hours? in case of prolonged outages, the phone could shut down to conserve power, so you always have enough juice to make a 911 call or whatnot.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
How many of you now exclusively have cordless phones in your home? You're SOL too if there's a power outage and need to call 911, so how is this any different?
I have Vonage for home, Voicepulse for business. They both work mostly well, but both have big issues:
1. Faxing - simply not reliable in general, forget about fax modems.
2. The directory listings issue is definitely just that - I almost couldn't open a bank account for my business because of it, and then was initially rejected for a company credit card.
However, with proper documentation, both of these things were overcome.
3. Online ordering? A _few_, thankfully not most, ecommerce outfits do a 'sanity check' on your phone number to see if it 'matches' your address.
4. Regional info line: can't dial 311 in NYC, which is pretty kick ass. You can, however, put the 10-digit 'out of area' version in your speed-dial.
5. Most of the services don't have in-code-7 digit dialing. Of course, we lost in that in NYC a while ago anyway for POTS.
6. Orphaning. As your VOIP provider starts using the newest, greatest, most bandwidth efficient VOIP adapter for new subs, earlier adopters with older adapters won't get the same features, or even the same level of service. This is definitely an issue with Voicepulse, may they burn in hell.
7. Roach motel portability - or no portability. You can port your phone# to vonage, but not out. You can't port your number to/from voicepulse.
Jonathan
1. If the ISP is down (as is the case with our cable, rather too frequently, and even with DSL when we had it for few years), then you are up the creek. VoIP won't work when your ISP is down.
2. voice connection can get bad. you may have to redial at the very beginning or during the course of a long conversation. voices fade either on your side or on the other side.
3. Disconnection out of the blue is possible too (less frequent than bad connection but still something that never happens on a land line -- unless someone's cordless loses power).
Vonage user since May'04, so the jury is out but the price advantage is what keeps me (still) signed up. If things don't improve than I will have to switch back to ma-bell....
I have used Vonage exclusively for over a year. It is simple to enable 911 through the Vonage Control Panel. I run my Cable Model, Router/Firewall, and Vonage box on a 1100va UPS and have had no problem during power outages, and I still have a cell if that does fail. Using Vonage exclusively allows for simple use by TiVo, Alarms and other services that need a phone line. I simply disconnected the Telco line at the Demarkation Box (to prevent the 48V) from hurting the Vonage Box, and then simply connected the Vonage Box to my normal phone outlet with normal phone line. This enabled every phone outlet in the house. I have Direct TV plugged into one outlet, cordless phones in many other outlets, and an Alarm hooked up at the Demarkation Box worked perfectly. This should not be an issue for anyone with minimal technical skills.
I'm entirely sick of the 911 bashing when it comes to VoIP. I've been a vonage subscriber for a while now and I'm baffled to see a valid reasoning in considering this an issue. First and foremost, if there is catosprohic event to cause the power to go out (ie: tornado, huricane) you're better off just going somewhere else because help certainly is going come fast. I've had the power go out on me a number of times in my life and not once can I remember a time when I needed to call 911, if we're talking 99.9% thats perfectly fine with me. For things like a fire, there's a pretty good chance you're not going to be inside making phone calls to 911. Lastly, I don't know many people that don't have a cell phone, or don't have someone there living with that have a cell phone, in which case if any of the above happens I'd be on that long before I was cocerned about my VoIP box having redudant power.
...unavailable during service and power outages, the writeup mentions broadband over power lines as a possible solution to the power failure problem.
Not quite... Although poorly written, the article does not suggest this - the broadband over power lines was suggested as a solution to the broadband-delivery problem.
Then don't you just get a bunch of telemarketer calls asking for Mr. "I.P. Freely" or whatever?
911 operators have no way of tracing where you are calling from if you use your cell phone. On the other hand, if you dial 911 on your POTS line and drop the receiver because a bad guy is chasing you around the house, the operators must send the police to your house... and they know exactly where your call is coming from.
Only a couple years ago this was the policy because cell phones weren't very common, nobody (statistically speaking) had cut the cord and it was really about security- being able to put a phone number with a physical place.
This has changed over the last couple years as cell phones saturated the population. They are now too common to refuse the business.
As long as the store adheres to security policy, there really shouldn't be a problem. Just leave your phone on so they can make a security call-back before they leave with the delivery.
And make sure to keep it on you if it's on vibrate- one night I had to get a hold of this chick because she wouldn't answer the door and she never heard her phone 'cause it was set on vibe. A shame too, cause her order ended up getting there 40 min later than it had to (and, of course, I had to re-send the driver).
If you really get mad, call 1-800-DOMINOS (iirc) or go to www.dominos.com and fill out the email form.
Ugh, just wait until Microsoft does it, then CNET will praise VOIP as the next big thing. If anyone can secure VOIP, it'll be Microsoft, no?
The downside is the telemarketters ... we've been on the do-not-call list from the start .... but they keep on coming .... even though we haven't finished our move yet I've already started the spiel .... "why are you calling me in another country? .... do you have any idea what the time is?" etc etc
On the other hand I don't care much about 911 service ....
My Tivo Series 1 downloads guide data by a model PPP connection over my Vonage VOIP phone line.
I don't know what the negotiated connection speed is, but it works.
Strangely enough, no. Besides, with the federal registry in place these days, I rarely get any sort of telemarketing calls anymore.
As someone who worked for a pizza Delivery resturante back in school I can say that we NEVER tried to verify a telephone number with a phone book.All you do is ask for a call back number incase you get lost^H^H^H^H^H a poorly written address.
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
I dont buy your Tivo problems. I have never had any of my Tivos plugged into ANY phone lines. Maybe you need to work on your Haxor skill set there buddy.
. I love the sound of burning women and screaming rubber....
According to the forums, if I had wired ethernet I would be fine. Just wireless that is a problem. Do you use wireless?
He's right.
The online banking , phone conversations and others are more easily monitored especially with the world reliance on shoddy, no safety minded, monopolist technology.
It is a concern factor.
Not only is the whole TiVO thing not a reason to not get VoIP service, it's also not even really accurate.
In many cases, people will pull a VoIP line into their house, from Vonage, for example. You get an ATA: Analog Telephone Adapter. So you use your normal telephones, and they go out over the Vonage line. So as far as your telephones (and thus the TiVO) are concerned, it's a POTS line.
I've kind of been thinking about how nifty it would be to get VoIP, but things like the inability to dial 911, and the fact that my ISP sometimes tanks for days at a time (hasn't happened in a long time... knock on wood) scare me. But then I decided that it'd make a lot of sense to keep my POTS line, and just *add* a VoIP line. Something like Asterisk can be used to build a nice PBX, and route calls over the appropriate line, depending on which is cheaper / which is available.
So really, the only point of the article is that having your only phone line come in over your cable connection is a bad idea. And that, if you ran VoIP phones internally, you'd need a $20 accessory to use your TiVO.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Until ten minutes ago. When my cable modem went out.
Its back on now, but if I've ever needed a "sign", this was it.
POTS all the way, baby!
"An hour later I'm at some other neighbors with my TiVo, and my own VCR trying to fend off their cat, "
How did you train your VCR to fend off the cat?
Anyhow, is TV really that important to people that missing a few days of it would be unbearable? I'd have just curled up with a book.
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
First off - if you use a VOIP service such as Vonage - they're already converting your analog lines to Digital when you plug in the box... So all the devices that are hardwired get a dialtone and figure they have a POTS line... So there's no issue with a Tivo or alarm, or whatever...
The issue of no connection if the power goes out - uh huh. How many people have CORDLESS phones that die when the power goes out? Sure the handset works, but the base is FUBAR... So if the power's out and you don't have wired phones, you're fucked anyway... Another non-issue...
As an aside, I have Comcast digital phone service. They carry my voice traffic thru a channel on the cable TV line, along with my internet traffic... They put a box on the outside of my house and tied it to a small UPS/transformer inside... If the power goes out, the UPS handles it for a zillion hours (I've been outa power for up to 8 hours, and the phones still worked...). I get 911 and all that other crap just fine - Another non-issue...
As for 911 not working - hey - do what we did back in the day - CALL THE POLICE or FIRE DEPT directly... Tell them where you are and they just might show up... If you're really fucked, hit 0, wait for the operator and tell her you need the cops/fire... She damn well knows where you're calling from and can relay that to the correct entity... Another non-issue...
The whole FUD thing is related to the asshole RBOC's that like to feed at the Universal service fund trough... VOIP isn't funding that crap right now (nor should any of us, but I digress) and they're all pissed... I say it's another non-issue...
Over here, Telus the local monopoly^Wphone company makes you present a picture ID (or two) before giving you a phone line. So you'll need to get a fake ID card, but then you'll expose yourself to being caught at a crime. Also, unless you tell them immediately not to, Telus will sell your listing to telemarketing companies as soon as you sign up.
I got around all this by using VOIP in combination with a prepay cellphone for special occasions.
-hadohk
The solution is very simple:
DO NOT rely on VoIP to call 911, and don't expect VoIP to support 911, not today, not tomorrow, not ever. If you need to have access to 911, find a different solution.
I use VoIP and no land lines. I can't call 911 through it but that's OK by me. I have a backup solution for that. What I like about VoIP is that it's cheap, unregulated and has none of the fucked up features of a land line: mandatory listing, telemarketers, dealing with quasi-monopolies etc.
PLEASE PLEASE please! STOP trying to make VoIP like a fucking land line. It's good the way it is and it has all the features that it needs. You want to order pizzas and call 911? Get a fucking land line and pay $65/month and LEAVE my VoIP ALONE!
-hadohk
Since I converted my POTS line to Vonage, I am in the phonebook (at least for the time being), I have 911 service and I am thrilled not to have those indecipherable bills from the phone company. Voice quality is fair, but ya gets what ya pays for.
Sure, 911 during a power failure is problematic, but then again, what are the odds? Unless it's a 911 call that is related to the power failure, which the authorities are likely to know about anyway. And besides, I still keep a cell phone around for desperate emergencies and network outages (more frequent than I'd like, but rarely inconvenient).
My VCR is ferocious. ;-)
Been using Packet8 for a while now... even better, I moved to Sri Lanka temporarily, and I got ADSL, plugged in the Packet8 phone, and now I can call USA for free to keep in touch with friends and family! Packet8 has been a wonderful tool for me! Checkout www.packet8.net
I have a vonage line here in Israel with a New York number. (I also have an israeli line on the same phone) Its great! My friends and family back in the usa can call me for free or close to it and I can call them for free. And it gets over the mental block of "Gee I have to call another country, which must be expensive."
The only problems are sometimes sound quality is iffy if I am downloading stuff. And once in a while I get a wrong number at 2:00 which is ofcourse 7:00 pm New York time.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
And has anyone considered what this will do to the network frabric? Do you think that those companies which host the network will continue to upgrade their routers, switches, backbones for free just to make sure they can handle the additional traffic that VoIP could generate if everyone switched?
Besides you realize that POTS has a 99.99% uptime, specifically for emergencies. I've read a lot of talk about batteries for your VoIP phones, UPS' and what not, but VoIP has a long way to go to match POTS. No I've never called 911 from my home but I'm not ready to give up that safety net yet for burgeoning technology. (I've called from my cell in the car twice, got through once so I've had experiences where I've had to call.)
Great story -- I'm very seriously considering getting VoIP (just haven't gotten around to it). Is there any software with it that you can configure on a file level?
e.g. I'd like to delete voicemails (and not even know about them) if the WAV files are 100K or something (to delete the hangups).
Also interested in eventually having an in-house speaker system read the Caller ID to me instead of ringing the phone.
I'm just imagining that since it's getting closer and closer to the computer, that I can get the functionality...
"Truth is not decided by majority vote" consensus gentium -- Norman Geisler
Yes, generally companies will require some sort of ID and credit check to purchase a phone line, but they don't require that the person who pays for the line be the person who is going to use it. Lot's of people pay for a phone line for their aging parent who has gotten forgetful about paying bills ontime, or for their child in school who cannot afford the line.
I am simply paying for a phone line for my good friend Vladimir Macallan, and so it is his name that should be published in the phone book. Make up a suitably unrealistic name by mixing cross cultural first and last names, and you're pretty much guaranteed you won't accidentally get calls for people who really are looking for someone who happens to have that name.
I'm using Packet8's VoIP service. I get unlimited calling anywhere in US or Canada for under $20/month. I have a UPS that powers my Cable modem, router, VoIP box, and cordless phone base. Short Power outage are no problem, I have a cell phone that would come in handy for longer ones. The 911 issue is valid, but I have local fire/police numbers on speeddial. Packet8 has 911 service is some areas, but not mine yet. I have absolutely no complaints so far. The quality is roughly the same as a cell phone, there is a little bit of a delay, but I can live with that for the price. I wouldn't say that it's to a point that everyone should switch to VoIP for a primary phone line, but I'll be sticking with it for the time being.
God became man to enable men to become sons of God. -C.S. Lewis
My series one stand alone TiVo works fine over Vonage after I upped the Vonage bandwidth (simple selection box on the Vonage website)
is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
If you call 911 on your cell phone in Bay Area, you will be routed to the CHP Golden Gate regional center and immediately placed on hold for 10 minutes. At least that's what's happened to me twice. I have the "local" numbers of various agencies programmed into my phone now.
As for your cell phone working during an emergency, ha. As other posters have noticed, after even a minor disaster the first thing everyone does is jump on their cell phone. Since there haven't been any disasters in the SF Bay Area recently, my most recent data point comes from my brother, who was unable to use his cell phone for 45 min after the Seattle earthquake a few years ago.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
In the USA anyhow.
When your phone service is "disconnected", it isn't physically disconnected, your service is just suspended.
You can dial 911 on any home phone that still has a dial tone.
Although the fact that nobody seems to know this is a problem. They should put that in the VOIP documentation.
I can confirm the Tivo issue. The Cisco ATA186 that Vonage ships, is not setup to support T.37 or T.38. for FAX machines or V.Moip using G.711 and therefore my Tivo cannot phone home. I have now gone 300 days without my Hughes Tivo/Rcvr combo phoning home. Since the program guide is pulled from the air, there seems to be no downside to it but tech support gets upset when they hear this. I tell them I only own a cell phone, I don't mention Vonage. They tell me if I have broadband, to get the ethernet enabled version of my Tivo/Rcvr but unless they are going to ship it to me for free, I'm not paying for it.
I heard Vonage converted to a Motorola gateway for the home, but I still don't think it uses any form of Modem-pass through over G711, I doubt even you turn all the compression settings off you get a modem to handshake with anything. And the Hughes Tivo doesn't allow you access to the modem settings inside the unit anyhow.
This pretty much leaves me out on an island until I get a Hughes unit that has the ethernet and IP built in. I like the unit, it is far superior to the Sony unit I used to have, as Sony's used crappy Quantum Fireball hard drives that quickly fragmented and got bad sectors, causing the Tivo unit to stutter and even the pause function would get porked. This unit supports dual-LMB dish and you can watch one show and Tivo the other, other than the fact it can't call home over Vonage, it's ok.
As to the E911 issue, Vonage has you fill out a form and send it in. I am moving and taking my Vonage with me, I need to fill out a new one. It routes 911 to the local PSAP and works just fine. Once Vonage send me confirmation I picked up the phone and dialed 911 and calmly told the operator that I was testing to see if PSAP routing was working over my IP phone. She confirmed my address and all was fine. So, don't let them FUD you on that.
I am a Verizon landline business subscriber, and I am not in either the white or yellow pages Verizon phone book that plopped on my doorstep the other day. And don't even talk to me about trying to reach someone there (how can we blather on and on about giving you non-existent excellent service?) So there's one more VoIP non-issue.
Voicemail is all handled upstream by the provider. This is good because you will get voicemail even when not connected to the internet. If I wanted to delete voicemail without seeing them it would simply be an email filter. However, my phone has the flashing light that I have new voicemail and the only way to turn that off is to listen to the voicemail over the phone by calling 123 and entering my password.
Lawyers can't legally demand attorney-client privilege for any information discussed over cell or cordless phones.
That's complete bullshit. The standard is a "reasonable expectation of privacy." A reasonable person expects their phone conversations to be private. If they didn't, we wouldn't need laws governing wiretaps.
Hell, privilege even extends to a call made from a pay phone in a public place.
The standard is not whether it's possible for you to be overheard. The standard is whether you can reasonably expect to be overheard.
I write in my journal
I honestly wonder who paid the author to write such a negative article. I have Broadvoice and several friends of mine have Packet8 and every one one of us is extremely happy with his VoIP service as well as the sound quality. None of us had any problems so far and as much as I have been concerned the installation has been the easiest thing on earth. Also, I find the argument about 911 calls to be absolutely irrelevant since every city has local emergency numbers - you just have to look it up or ask for them and that should be everyone's own responsibility and not the one of the VoIP provider.
VoIP already beats legacy landlines by far and once you got it you will never go back. Instead of bashing VoIP the phone companies should simply accept it.
Connecting to the POTS world:
A properly setup H.323 network (VOIP) should have a gateway that connects the VOIP world to the POTS network - voila! Your pizza is served! As more and more of the network is converted to VOIP, less POTS gateways will be needed - until one magical day when there is no POTS network (20+ years from now - my guestimate).
No 911 service! - BS - many people today opt for having a cellphone only - and disconnect, or never connect POTS in the first place. How do they get 911 service!!!? Through their cellphone! So the fact there is not any dialtone in their house is a moot point for exclusive cellphone user. VOIP landline phone users will be responsible for making sure their equipment has backup power - not only their phone - but all the firewalls/routers on their network that provide connectivity to the outside network for VOIP telephony, as well. In a cable company model, they will have a digital splitter to provide your phone service via a VOIP phone; for DSL, you will need a DSL modem, an (wireless) ethernet switch(router)/firewall and a VOIP phone - or software on your computer that emulates a VOIP phone - either way, the user will need to provide backup power for their phones when the power goes down. As mentioned before, the technology is in flux - so you will see changes as the best way from a functional and cost perspective shakes out. A large number of tech saavy users are already willing to take responcibility for keeping their phones charged up - this will carry over into the VOIP space, as well, in the long run.
Security problems? - BS - as pointed out elsewhere, your 900Mhz cordless and your cellphone are wide open for interception. If you want really secure communications, don't use any transport medium. If you accept a lower level of security, that is 'good enough' - then I am sure there well be encryption options available, either through special voip phone sets (as can be found now in the POTS world today), or in the form of software to emulate this functionality on a computer.
The article presented was thinly disguised FUD - nothing more.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
I was one of those people who switched over to cell phone only service almost 10 years ago and have never looked back.
/Mauritz
Now I have gotten a VoIP account though because I relocated to California from Sweden and my cellphone bill was consistently over $150 a month. Now I have a VoIP terminated in Sweden so all my friends there can call me paying only for the local call and so do I (Making the call cost go from $0.29 a minute to around $0.01, way lower than even the cheapest calling card solutions). So for people who have migrated there simply is no substitute for VoIP.
Also I can concur with a lot of other posts that setting up Tivo without POTS is no problem.
I have a unique prospective on this issue as I'm actually installing business grade avaya voip equipment for a living (in hawaii atm no less!).
Now, for home users, yes, I can see if these could be an issue, but for business users, the advantage is simply amazing. We have failsafes in place so each location either has few hard phone lines (using cisco fxo cards) or for the big sites we've got a 24 channel PRI circuit, so all local outgoing calls and 911 still works as expected. Interoffice communication which used to cost a ton of money now rides over the wan circuits at little to no cost. Plus, the features with the new voip systems are amazing and really useful for business users.
I guess what I'm saying is that the issues outlined in the article really don't effect large business users AT ALL, which is where a very large portion of the money going towards voip is being spent.
I'm amazed how many people bothered to respond to this "story". And a good story it is, too, as in "whopper".
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Getting VoIP phone service from a provider such ad Vonage is pretty good I think, but I hate when I see a trade mag that says "Go to VoIP now or else your company will go bankrupt" or something stupid and then a manager sees the headline and decides right then he's going to do VoIP. Trying to do VoIP in an enterprise with branch offices using DSL/Cable links and encrypting them with VPNs is tough. I've experienced this first hand. When voice packets have to traverse multiple providers, who knows when you're going to get high latency. The kind that will make your phone quality terrible and annoying. This make sense really because there's now QoS on the Internet really. I've heard of a few companies trying to do VoIP this way. It's cheap because you just need broadband in each branch office, but it's way too unreliable. They find out the hard way that they still need their frame-relay network to do decent VoIP. Or else if the can get SLAs from a provider on broadband links they maybe could do it. But a lot of times the big providers can't give you SLA based broadband in small cities.
Yeah, I have thin walls too.
"Cats like plain crisps"
I've seen several broadband over powerline presentations, and the question of "what happens if the power goes out" was answered pretty definitively (and convincingly, IMHO) that BoPL is engineered and designed to work whether or not the lines are energized. Since BoPL will be used for the power companies own surveillance and control of the distribution system (including detection of faults and other problems) this makes obvious sense. Of course if there's a physical break in the line things might go out for downstream branches of the distribution system, but in that case, the telephone system is probably also knocked out, since telephone lines often reside on the same pole.
There's always trusty wireless cell phones and amateur radio (unless the FCC wipes out the Amateur Service and sells off its spectrum to the highest bidder, that is). Handwritten letters often arrive at their destination in a week or two.
[Insert pretentious and semi-clever sig here: ______ ]
Ok let's see: 911: a issue now, but most people have cell phones. Power: Harder problem, but most people have cell phones. Not certain if Power over POT's is possible. Phonebook listings: I don't understand why we so behind. Why is it that when I want to lookup a business or person I am forced to enter a city or state. Why can't I just Google. Could need a regulatory solution. I think the phone companies want to maintain control. Security: Encryption and other technologies are coming along. So in summary I see problems, but no intractable issues.
I will be the first to admit that I haven't done much research in this area, but what (if anything) is available on the market to push that VoIP dialtone to the rest of the house? I thought that right now, most VoIP providers were only able to power one RJ 11 off the ATA that they give you to put behind the broadband modem. Yeah, there are new multi-handset phone systems out there but no one wants to buy a new phone "system" just because they get new service - if that becomes a requirement then VoIP @ home will never be more then a passing fancy. As I write this and mull it over (and having ZERO TDM knowledge) I would think that you would need to run wiring from the VoIP demarc device to the main box that your telco lines come into your home from and do some sort of cross-connect there. How else are you going to get that current going across the lines so that they rest of the phones in the house will ring?
Alot of you were poo poo'ing the security blanket feature of a POTS line being up even in a blackout. Yeah, many people have cell service, but it's nice to have old reliable there when the shit hits the fan. I hate the LEC's but they do serve a purpose.
First things first, we all have to start talking the same language and stop comparing apples and oranges. First off, there is a big difference between providing IPT (IP Telephony) and VoIP. VoIP is simply the transport of voice as data packets. Every major carrier is doing it these days for long haul (trans or intercontinental). IPT is when you provide dial tone and the sundry services that we take for granted from Ma Bell as well as the newer converged services like unified messaging. We also end up getting sucked into ridiculous arguements about security, QoS, etc. I deploy IPT for a living and not one of the approx 20k phones that we have deployed to over 20 customers has ridden the Internet in any way shape or form. It's 100% IP traffic over the corporate LAN / WAN. Intersite comms are over customer T's - nothing else is acceptable in the enterprise! For that reason, security is a non-issue as well. There are the same problems for IPT as there are for any data transitting the network. A hacker is usuallly going to do more damage stealing data that is sitting around then randomly trying to snoop into live calls between end users. Defending against these and other IPT / VoIP attacks is a serious issue, but there are ways to deal with it. Other standard telecom issues are present as well i.e. monitoring long distance and 900 type numbers. QoS is no joke - but good engineering and a true commitment from the customer to make it happen will usually win that arguement as well. And as a shameless plug for a company that I love but have NO relationsip with, take a swing by http://www.crystalvoice.com/ - they have got some SLICK technology. I have no idea how it works, but I have tried it over a 56k dialup and it blew me away. I have to guess that someone is going to buy them sooner or later - Cisco, Yahoo, Google?? Done with my rant - c ya.
Nice Princess Bride reference there... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093779/