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Wardriving Worries Residents
sphynx99 writes "This article describes how residents of an upscale neighborhood in Arizona are worried about wardriving, a "new method of privacy intrusion and identity theft". Nothing to worry about, though; "The Scottsdale Police Department plans to create a cyber-crimes unit next year."
Scottsdale residents are concerned people are looking into their homes when their blinds are open. Police plan to start a blind closing service.
finally some one sees this as a real problem. For now the best solution (the one I also use) is to secure your network.
Maybe I am in the minority but I see stealing bandwidth, the same way as stealing movies off line, it seams like you hurt no one, but you are still stealing, no amount of justifying is going to change that
Heaven forbid they setup their networks properly and save taxpayers thousands upon thousands of dollars. Why be responsible when you can just whine to the government?
I wish they'd just save everyone a lot of hassle and RTFM...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
purely passive wardriving is NOT a crime.
now connecting to their access point and using their internet/network for whatever... that might be, i am not a lawyer, so i cannot say. what i do know is that RF signals are not owned, for if they were i could sue for criminal trespass when the other guy's signals cross my property.
Instead of wasting tax payers' money, they should just use wired lans.
Why should the poor pay taxes to subsidize all these extra expenditure made for the sake of those who are wealthy?
I'm talking about those in the bottom of the scrap heap here. Those who don't even have computers, Joe Sixpacks.. like.. Homer!
Now, why would Homer have to pay more taxes so that Burns can have a safe wireless lan?
Those people who buy a wireless router should pay for a tax at time of purchase!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
So on what basis are the residents reporting incidents? Or is it just upscale residents reporting scruffy people in beat up cars? (which is not necessarily a bad thing)
ctrl-alt-apple-8 is your friend on mac os x. =)
That's very interesting. I would like to see a comparison between the cost of the proposed cyber crimes division and the cost of sending high school nerds house to house to show these fools how to enable WAP/WEP encryption keys, MAC address filtering, and other proper precautions that most people are too lazy to read the instructions about, but concerned enough to perpetually bitch over. For real people, what the hell? If I knew I was living in a high crime area, I wouldn't leave home with the doors and windows wide open and then pretend that my ineptitude isn't at least part of the reason I was robbed clean. I also wouldn't recommend starting another bureaucracy who is responsible for cleaning up a mess that is easier to prevent in the first place.
Maybe they could actually set up their access points properly. It's not hard. Even WEP is far from trivial for a wardriver to get past- they'd have to camp out and wait for "weak" packets...except for certain specific AP's that have faulty WEP key generation. The owner's manuals now cover turning on WEP/WPA quite nicely, have for years, and most of the glaring problems have been fixed long ago as well.
What's next, people complaining about all the crime in their neighborhood but not locking their goddamn front doors? Oh...check.
Please help metamoderate.
If it is anything like the Cyber Crime Unit in the area I live it will be a joke. You see the CCU requires 2-3 years of patrol experience before you can get own it. Computer experience comes AFTER time in a patrol car.
Maybe these "lay" persons will start to read the product manuals shipping with the appliance that show you step by step how to implement security measures.
OH YEAH, nobody reads those things or even needs to...once it "works" thats all that matters.
Bandwidth theft is crime. You are safe from wardrivers by having the gated community police keep out criminals. Not too hard.
This was one of the inital concerns with wireless, for crying out loud. THere's been reports of people leeching other's connections at airports, hotels, etc., so it's not surprising that this shold turn up.
People who haven't yet secured their wireless network are advised to do so. In particular, they should consider limiting the range of their wireless.
Funniest post I've read on Slashdot in weeks. Everyone knows WEP is insecure, WPA is the way to go.
A good to solve this problem is to simply get residents to lock down their WAPs. An even better way would be to have this be a part of the default setup for WAPs. And ofcourse the best way would be to just get the paranoid people to run ethernet throughout their houses. No need to get laws involved when there's a fairly easy technological solution to this problem.
residents of an upscale neighborhood in Arizona are worried about wardriving
Geeks living in that area should consider advertising their services. Improving computer security and making money while doing it sounds like win-win situation to me.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
What good is a cyber crimes division going to do? How is this going to help people understand that they need to secure their networks? How about a community course offered on securing your WIFI? That'd be cheaper; and more effective.
If I was to broadcast my 'privacy' unsecured 10 miles around... could I really complain of privacy intrusion and identity theft? Yeah right...
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
I have a wireless I use for work and stuff, but at the same time I have an old Linksys AP I have broadcasting totally open. Lock Down the one you want to use, and just let the other sit online plugged into nothing.
This is not police business, this is the resposibility of Joe and Martha computer owner to ensure that their network is secure.
A quick look at the Scottsdale yellow pages reveals a great many business that offers such a service... and the costs would not be large.
To think that the concern is coming from "residents of an upscale neighborhood" is especially humourous.. or bothersome, depending on how you look at it. I'm betting that they are spending big $$$ securing their homes.. but would balk at paying a tech to secure their computer/ network. This is NOT police business. Period.
RFTM or just hire an outta work hacker to set it up. Buying and being a consumer sez" big boat, lock it up, HUMVEE, definetly lock it up, so "WYFP?" people are mean.
Damn editors of ./ are desperate.
Only Outlaws will have.....
I would consider it neglect to avoid wardriving customer sites. If you don't know what it looks like from the outside you risk leaving people wide open.
Jeez
I support either much higher taxes on gated commuties, or the removal of publicly funded services for them. Why should my taxes contribute to things like roads and grounds keeping for a plot of land that I'm not even allowed to be on?
If I drive around and find (and pinpoint) unsecure wireless networks, is it illegal to say, "your network is unsecure.. see, I'm on it right now. I'll secure it for you for $20"?
It'd be hard for them to say no, so... kinda easy money, or is there some kind of law that states I have an obligation to tell someone if something is wrong (although I'm sure there isn't.. for techonlogy.)
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
isn't this troll old already? everybody already knows that they're redirects to goatse.
If wardriving is a crime, how are people supposed to know which AP is the place offering free wifi and which is an ignorant home user? (other than the ESSID, which if the home user knows how to change, will probably be able to prevent it in the first place)
This seems to me to be another case of the naive shifting responsibility to others...
My dog ate my sig
that "wardriving is not a crime". I'm a member of a local 2600 chapter and I've been to about 3 other ones too. At ALL of them, they wardrive for the purpose of none other than stealing bandwidth and doing harm.
There is nothing inherently good about wardriving and in most cases it isn't even neutral. Okay, so one or two people don't request a DHCP lease... 99% of them do.
And this isn't an uninformed guess, I've been to many 2600 meets and hacker conventions to know what really happens.
Quit lying to yourself.
Don't use wireless. I don't believe that using wireless in a home is wise. I don't care about protocols and encryption - there's always some vulnerability that eventually pops up in hardware or software. Why take the chance if you don't have to?
Wardriving has been around for several years now, and they are just now getting worried?
.... would we?
Aside from breaking into network shares, I do not see a major threat really -- wouldn't want any bad hackers to have access to the shared Music drive
All financial transactions done over the Internet use some form of data encryption, so someone sniffing in on the network would just get a bunch of garbage.
Whatever man.
I dont really see how this is worthy of a posting.
oh, and secure your damned networks peeps.
While the article is absolutely informative in a panic-causing sort of way, they're a little off on their history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wardialing
While Wargames popularized the practice (among geeks anyway) it was not the origin of it.
Are we going to start seeing lawsuits against the manufacturers of WiFi hardware that ships with weak security configurations? That's about the only eventuality which will trump the need for companies to cater to the stupidi^Wlowest common denominator.
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
What the Scottsdale PD should be doing is creating a program that helps the citizens setup their home network security. Give classes that teach people how to turn on WEP, how to use a firewall, etc.
A community service, for sure. And since it's offered by the local PD, it would make the average user realize how important it is...
-ch
Driving still worries this citizen.
.. GET OVER IT.
-10 off topic, lame, troll idiot post
Perhaps the solution is to park your car in the garage rather than in the street running with a "Take my car, I need the money" bumper sticker. Naw, lets make it illegal to listen to radio waves.. (c'mon if you don't have cable television by now you're a chump)
I actually live in that neighborhood. haha.
well then i guess the question would be, what do you do when you pay to live in a gated community, and someone sitting in a car outside the gates is invading your privacy. from inside the gate, those security guards can shine their flashlight in my eyes all they want but ive got a pair of shades
A hacker just wants to know what's out there, while a cracker wants to take advantage of it for his own gain. Perhaps 2600 isn't exactly a good place to start your polling on the behavior of wardrivers?
They can just put a giant ass tinfoil roof on their upscale houses.
When I first read the headline, I read:
> Warpdriving worries residence
What a let down.
you can get access into any gated community with an access code beginning with "911" ("9110", "91100", etc.)
:)
if "privatized" = "stupid" then you're right
They're all obviously middle aged dried up old soccer mom's that complain and bitch about every little thing because their lives have been drained of and all meaning.
to not be paranoid
Federal prosecutors in Charlotte, N.C., said the men found an unprotected Wi-Fi access point at a Lowe's home-improvement store parking lot in suburban Detroit, using wardriving tactics to steal credit card numbers from the retailer.
So we need these laws because the credit-card-fraud lobby has kept the practice of stealing people's card info perfectly legal for far too long...
"ownership" has nothing to do with it; its whether the communication is conducted via a method the user has a "reasonable expectation of privacy" using. "That someone isn't going to go park outside my house with a cantenna, and a laptop equipped with software specifically configured to listen for and capture traffic" is most certainly "reasonable", nevermind they have to be fully aware it's possible for others to very easily listen in. If you're intentionally operating a radio device looking for signals you know are not meant for you, that's called eavesdropping.
In all cases, including "wardriving", there is no legitimate reason to collect the information or listen in. It's none of your goddamn business. That has always been the case, and always will be, no matter what a bunch of pimply faced kids in a car with a pringles can think; the law is not based on whether or not they think their little "hobby" should be legal or not- it's based on decades of case law.
Please help metamoderate.
TFA mentions that one guy was actually let in by one of the residents.
And claim you were threatening to hack them if they didn't pay you the $20. Yes, you and I know that's not the case, but people are dumb.
Federal prosecutors in Charlotte, N.C., said the men found an unprotected Wi-Fi access point at a Lowe's home-improvement store parking lot in suburban Detroit, using wardriving tactics to steal credit card numbers from the retailer.
Seeing as how they were in the parking lot, I don't reckon they were using "wardriving tactics", eh? I think they were just plain hacking at that point, but I guess that doesn't sound scary enough.
"Once they're on your network, they can take their time attempting to hack into your computer and steal information," he said. "It's nearly impossible to find them, unless you see them sitting in their car outside."
Yes, it's so impossible to look out in front of one's house! Whatever will we do?
Really, I see how this can be a problem. But, that was possibly the worst way of detailing why it is one.
So... you get to sleep safe at night whilst your rent-a-cops keep the nasty WiFi signals at bay?
Enable web encryption, problem solved. Move along. Seriously; this is a huge upscale neighborhood that's bloody enclosed!, they can affoard to not let anyone run a public network, and force them to hire admins to set up WEP (if there too inept/busy to do it themselves)
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
Larry Paprocki, executive director for Stonegate, issued warnings to neighbors after more than six residents told him they thought their Wi-Fi signals were tampered with.
According to the Scottsdale police report, the Stonegate resident who granted access to a suspect in August noticed a charge to an online store on his American Express card.
I saw an EVIL HACKER using his computer on the corner, and then someone stole my credit card number!
It will be amusing or depressing to see how a prosecutor (and a judge) handle these complaints.
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
MOST of the time no one is doing any hacking or anything here. These networks are absolutely wide open with no security at all. Once again the average Joe is taking zero time to learn how to properly secure their computer/network, and expecting everything to work right. That's not how things work.
Now, don't mistake me here. I'm not trying to JUSTIFY people exploiting this to get people's personal information. But this is yet another security "problem" that is simply the uninformed masses not willing to educate themselves on some BASIC security procedures.
I mean think about it for a second. The complaints amount to "Hey, I'm broadcasting my entire home network, along with all shares on it (many of which contain personal info I didn't bother to hide), and my private internet connection, well beyond my property line - with no security at all! And someone out there is actually ACCESSING IT!! WTF?!"
lots of people are just not aware how easy it is to get in.
the security software people are just not marketting good enough. or is it their software isn't really good enough.
lots of people don't even know how to explore their drives.....so that said how the heck would they be able to secure their networks or systems? wireless or not.
Why bother creating a cyber-crimes unit for Scottsdale when for a fraction of the price they could hire some out of work coders to put together a secure your wi-fi community education program? Hell, enlist Mr. Anderson's 8th grade comp sci class for that matter. It would cost a lot less and put idle hands to work. The geeks could go war driving and stop at every house with an open access point. Problem solved. Oops, I forgot... gotta bulk up that standing army a bit more...
Rebellious computer geeks consider wardriving a hobby, using wireless laptops connected to high-powered mobile antennas and Global Positioning System tracking devices to detect vulnerable networks from their driver's seats. The term wardriving originates from "wardialing," a term introduced by Matthew Broderick's character in the 1983 movie WarGames. Wardriving and wardialing employ the same concept, although the former is updated to wireless networks.
Oh the humanity!! Those War loving geeks, the same ones that made my computer almost EXPLODE on Jan. 1, 2000, they must be stopped! Someone call Ashcroft!
Dont you just love ignorant sensationalist journalism. I propose that all future stories with a funny rating this high be posted Monday - Friday between 9am and 5pm. I could have used the laugh today... Then again some of the co-workers might not have got the joke.
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
Ummm, surely securing your wireless network is a better solution than moving into a gated community?
Everyone knows gated communities are full of materialistic and culturally bankrupt proletariats. Who'd wanna live near them?
That sure does sound quite a bit like extortion (if taken to court). Not only would you be advertising that you connected to their network unauthorized, but then you advertise your presence, offering to fix their problem, for a fee. Just as the windows messenger pop-ups have been classified as extortion (you know the go this website and you can get these pop-ups to go away). I would steer clear of any such attempts, no matter how good you intentions are.
imagine a beowulf cluster of wardriving l33t h4x0rz set loose in upscale neighborhoods..
Wardriving is frequently pointed out as an example of questionable activity, but it should be noted that, from the point of view of the machines involved, everything is working exactly as designed: Wardriving software sends probes, and the access point responds per design. Most access points, when using default settings, are intended to provide wireless access to all whom request it. In this sense, those who set up access points without adding security measures are offering their connection (perhaps unintentionally) to the community.
Arizona makes considerable money from the corrections industry, excessively so, like you have no choice but to plea-bargain so.
This heavy dependance upon Federal $$$ per inmate per day has caused Arizona cops to be very very excessive, creative with their "arrests" and professional liars in court.
I pity the poor college student with a insecure network and a few mp3's and some harmless pr0n on his computer.
Arizona doesn't see a threat to these upper crust snobs with their mega bucks which their banks take especially secure care of their clients, they see a opportunity to peek into peoples computers and later "raid" them based upon a so called "anonymous call" for probable cause.
It's hard to beat the evidence they can place on your computer combined with a "take a 10 year plea bargain or chance it in court and loose and get 20 years".
There are many in Arizona that had no choice but to take the plea. They are suffering needlessly and excessively and their lives ruined to provide the State a income industry.
Instead of criminalizing wardriving, how about making it illegal to run a wireless access point that's wide open and named "linksys"?
Upscale neighboorhoods are *** ALWAYS *** afraid of anithing different or new...
http://www.electricnews.net/news.html?code=2863986
why does it say "5 comments" on the frontpage when there's > 100?
Rebellious... what a useless word.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
The author of the article cited is fairly clueless, equating wardriving with identity theft. Unless the wardrivers have the thus far undiscovered hack to allow the viewing of ssl connections, credit card theft is not likely.
The author obviously has no clue how these things actually work. Take this, for example, in reference to those clueless morons who got themselves arrested a while ago:
"using wardriving tactics to steal credit card numbers from the retailer."
WTF? Wardriving != Identity theft!
if these scottsdale residents can actually get the police to start looking into this, i'll be impressed
... out in that direction) and *not* find an open ap
however, the other cities in phoenix metro, chandler and buckeye to be specific, are much much worse when it comes to the abundance of open aps. north scottsdale is bad too (more new development), but north scottsdale is more or less its own city
on weekends, i'll tend to cruise around and see what's up. because of all of the new construction going on in these parts, and younger families moving in to these new homes, you would actually be hard pressed to drive through most residential neighborhoods in chandler and buckeye(ish
currently, there are no laws (that i know of) here that are designed to combat wardriving. of my circle of friends that do this, and then their extension of friends, the only problems we've heard of with the law has to do with getting citations for wasting gasoline by way of unnecessary driving (think 'cruising' laws that may exist in your area)
frankly, i think there should be *more* open aps all across the country. rate limit them, proxy them (read, no spammers relaying through port 80), etc. but then again, who here doesn't want free wireless anywhere you go? =)
vodka, straight up, thank you!
I fail to see what exactly they are going to arrest or prosecute people for.
This is a radio transciever operating completely within legal regulations.
If you don't want me to listen to your router's packets, don't transmit them.
If you don't want you router to respond to my 'specially crafted' transmissions, then tell it to ignore me.
Of course, it's far more complex than that, but current law does not seem to apply to this on the surface. It may apply to your actions once you are using their resources, but only marginally.
-Adam
I'd leave a friendly note on the unsecured computer warning that they shouldn't leave their network wide open, and to demonstrate the term "wide open" I'd fill the rest of their hard drive with copies of Mr. Goatse.
Too bad these fucking moals of mine get in the way...
--If we're not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?
-- Mace only makes me hornier.
1. It's the end-users responsibility to know what the hell they're plugging in and what the necessary safety steps are. 2. The more we involve the Government in compensating for our ignorance by laziness, the more they WILL get involved. 3. In general, the more the Governement (at any level) gets involved, the worse the problem will get. 4. Most PDs do not have CyberCrimes divisions. I don't say this out of generalized ignorance, I've actually researched it. Of those that do have CyberCrimes divisions, those staffing it are mostly incompetant. This isn't by their own doing. Typically they are ex patrolman and detectives who knew enough to be labled and expert and thus get appointed to these units. There isn't enough training or budget for them to even think about staying on top of things. This goes all the way up the food chain into the Fed Law Enforcement arena. Until you get into organizations such as NSA and DIA (which are primarily doing research) there is a complete and utter lack of talent. The two exceptions to this that I have seen (and I'm sure there are others) are the FBI's computer forensics guys and the RCMP Cyber Crimes guys. 5. Police are reactionary by their very nature...as they should be. Again, they are there to enforce laws. The only time laws need enforcement is when someone is or is trying to break them. When police get into proactive activities they are pulled away from their real purpose (DARE, Public Relations by Officers, etc). While the idea of a completely reactionary police force isn't a popular one, it is in fact the only effective one. Just my experience based two cents. ER
im wardriving right now
when i'm on the road does this mean the guy on my ass isn't a cop, he just looking over my faxes?
Park your car in the Synagogue lot next time, if you want it to be safe. If it is a beater, you better have a damn good reason for stinkin' up the place, though, or I'll have your ass towed.
My roommate from freshman year worked at a local restaurant and was arrested by the FBI for stealing credits card numbers and using them to buy stuff online. I guess they would call that 'warwaiting.' I don't see them doing anything about the increasing threat of 'warwaiting.'
Ironic quote of the day: "If ignorance is bliss, then wipe the smile off my face." -Rage Against the Machine
I wonder if the evil specter of the wardriving boogieman will soon replace the computer virus as the all out scapegoat for any problems with computers.
"My computer isn't working" Oh, must be a virus... oh, must have been a wardriver.
"There's this credit card bill to an online porno site, honey.. you know anything about this?" oh, must be a virus... oh, must be a wardriver.
"The RIAA detected several mp3s have been illegal traded from your Internet connection". oh, must be a virus... oh, must be a wardriver.
I have a strong feeling that very soon Norton and MacAfee will be releasing their 'war-driver' defense software, available in your finer Best Buys and Office Depots, which will scan your network and watch out for those pesky war drivers trying to hack into your network and do all sorts of nasty things to you.
I wish the media would just admit that in general, war drivers are nothing more then bored little geeks who are more curious to see what's out there then to actually do any 'hacking', and that enabling the WEP that came standard with consumer's WAPs is typically good enough security to stop some of your more nefarious 'hackers'.
Or at least, that's why I war drive, and that's what I use to stop those hackers. (actually, it's more to stop my neighbors from accidentally connecting to my WAP instead of their own and stealing my bandwidth, because hey, they're leaving their WAP wide open.
The Internet is generally stupid
These people have nobody to blame but themselves... the public needs to be educated that to set up an 802.11x network without turning at least WEP on is the international symbol for a invitation to surf onto the network.
It's just as simple as that. Turn on WEP and the wardrivers won't get into your network.
lol. As if it's a huge problem of theft. It's nice however to jump on-line while your not by your house/work.
;)
As if cops even understand what's going on.
They come out with some new security setup.. then we break that - and it continues. They will never stop us. This is how technology grows.
Wow...imagine if the article said that they had done this...inside a gated community.
Fact of the matter is that gated communities without a guard stationed there offer little extra security. It will help stop the casual opportunistic theft, but does nothing against people who are interested in getting in. People just tailgate in or rely on the same mechanism that the school busses, garbage trucks and other utilties use.
This is a GLOBAL test. I'm wondering why I don't see any comments for this story...
I'm going to catch a lot of flack for this I'm sure, but I contend the reality is wireless is a topology that is mostly for convenience and the convenience aspect in many cases is not worth the potential security liabilities.
Case in point: a few months ago, a business associate, who manages a lot of sensitive information for clients unpacked a nifty new wireless router and hooked it up into his network. He was a n00b and didn't install any security. He was also a lazy fuck who didn't want to run CAT5 from one room to another in his office. Some script kiddy hooked into his network and browsed all his shares and then notified him he might want to close off his network. Now all this guys' clients personal and private information has been compromised. Even if you enable encryption, do you know if your doctor or dentist or stock broker hasn't? Do you want your medical or financial records being slurped up by a guy in a Toyota Camry in the parking lot?
It's a lot easier to just tell people to not use wireless. It's better to promote the topology as highly insecure and keep the noobs from thinking that they can just unpack a router and plug it in and everything's fine.
It's one thing if the wireless is used in public areas and is open, or for travelling or within businesses for specific applications, but I continue to be against "general purpose" wireless connectivity. It's bad. It's insecure. And we can't expect stupid computer users to not leave themselves vulnerable. And the reality of the situation is we all have stupid friends who probably shouldn't even be connected to the net, that have information on their machines on us, that we don't want flowing through the airwaves.
Criminalizing "wardriving" is yet another sign that people want to pass off responsibility onto others. It's a step in the wrong direction. If a guy in a gated community wants to toss a wardriver in jail, then I want that guy to join him in the cell for being a stupid idiot, compromising himself, and all the data he may have on other people on his computer, which I consider to be a more severe crime.
People who *really* care about security don't let friends and associates use wireless.
Why worry, deploy.
Using tkip and AES these new key exchange and data encryption protocols seem pretty robust to me. Wardrive away and feast on my stream of pseudo random numbers.
If I'm standing outside and I use the light from your porch to see something, am I stealing from you?
/bin/fortune | slashdotsig.sh
I don't live in Stonegate, I live in a nice apartment building. From my apartment, I can see 2 or 3 other networks. I don't broadcast my SSID, use WEP, and have MAC filtering enabled so I'm not too worried about it.
It's easy for us geeks to shout from the rooftops to just lock it down, but we are dealing with people who think putting a key inside a fake rock is a safe way of not getting locked out of their home. I am surrounded by Joe Sixpacks and Barbi Braindeads. They have no clue and no amount of education is going to fix it.
Here is an idea -- provide a USB port on the access point and configure them with a random WEP key, no SSID broadcast, and MAC filtering at the factory. Then take a USB key fob to the access point, automagically download the SSID and WEP key, and take it to each PC. The PC can install the SSID and the key, and then download their MAC. Take the fob back to the lan and plug it in to finish configure the MAC filtering. No fuss, no bother, no skills involved.
There, problem solved. No computer can connect until it's done, and the system is delivered secure. Leave the web configuration utilitiy so if someone want's to turn it off to deliver free access they have a choice. That will take skills, or at least someone who can RTFM.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Since most of these people don't have a clue, but just shoot on down to their local Best Buy or whatever, bring the thing home and plug it in.
:)
Good chance for some of the local consultants to make a few bucks off the dumb rich people.
Or maybe, it was the dumb local consultants installing the wifi in the rich peoples houses?
Life was hell, then I discovered Linux...
I wonder how many of the people who are frightened of wardrivers in Scotsdale even HAVE wireless? Probably a small number.
Seems that every so often the "common folk" get paniced over something that they do not have a clue about. Instead of trying to figure out what the actual threat is, they jump at shadows.
Sounds like the reaction to just about any real or imagined problem in my lifetime.
"A person is smart. People are dumb and panicy and you know it." - Men in Black
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
Well, okay. Could be many folks don't RTFM because they're typically written by many geeks like those here, who can not write clearly and concisely a coherent, well written sentence without a typo to sentence ratio of 10:1. From reading many of those manuals, it appears the more someone can obfuscate the more superior they feel. Of course it's job security, because that increases "calls for help" and consultant fees. In the end, a company gets on its managers for engineering a poor product and the engineers get to start all over with another project that, thanks to poor documentation, will also be configured inappropriately. A cycle that repeats endlessly. User documentation is almost always the last thing written, in a rush, and almost always by the people most remote from the project's design and implementation.
Like leaving a wireless network, "open", I believe leaving one's home or car doors unlocked is not prudent, but it's not an invitation for people to steal or even snoop. For every locked door, there are a dozen other ways into a house. How many locks can be opened with a credit card? How many sliding doors can be opened by lifting the door? How many door hinges are on the outside of the door? For every manner that exists to secure a computer/network, there are probably a dozen ways to circumvent the security. We thought WEP was secure, it isn't. We thought WAP was secure, it isn't. It's always a cat and mouse game, or time/risk vs. benefit trade-off. Tenacity, technology and time will usually find a way. Surreptitiously using someone's wireless connection may or may not have an effect on the network. And though content-containing radio waves can't be generally seen, they are considered, by many courts, to be property. Just read a few stories about DirecTV's hackers.
Too many knee-jerk reactions here blaming users. Of course many users are clueless about network security. It's NOT their business to necessarily know how to secure a network. That's the task of the design engineers. At some level, everyone relies on someone else. For all the "great" system administrators out there, how many of you can fault-isolate a contemporary processor to the gate-level? Yet you use processors all the time and documentation is available for the research.
As for the "wasted" tax dollars for police to patrol an upscale neighborhood. I don't see anything wrong with that. Those people are probably paying a disproportionate share of taxes. Until you've reached the 35% and over tax bracket yourself, watch who you're bitching at. Someday you'll be there and you'll be a bit concerend when you see a few "strange" cars driving "slowly" through your neighborhood as if casing.
so many of these whiners are only war driving amongst themselves. (And yes, I'm old enough to remember party line phones where it was enough just to quietly lift the receiver and you could picture yourself as 133+.) Plenty to see here, but move along anyway.
Say hello to my little sig.
and this was a big story on the local news the other day. The Stonegate area is a bunch of rich old fucks that shouldn't even be using a computer. From the sound of this article they were probably just reporting some younger people in the neighborhood and assumed it was related to some adware/spyware they have on thier computer.
This must make Windows XP with its built-in 'zero configuration' wireless utility the ultimate hacker tool. Maybe they should sue Microsoft for marketing and selling this awful hacker software.
In Arizona your taxes don't pay for those roads and groundskeeping. The developer does. Grounds maintenance is paid for by the rather high dues paid to the homeowner's association (and _every_ new development has one, required by every city here for just that reason).
Use the spatula, Luke
- Scottscale, AZ -- where rich, white republicans go to retire.
- Florida -- where the rest go to retire.
So, yes, please do milk those fucking bush-loving, cheap-labor republicans for all you can get. Tell them that they are "broadcasting an IP address" and that you can fix it for the low-low price of $250/hr. When they try to get you to lower your price by implying that there's such a thing as desparate mexicans-with-laptops, just laugh all the way to the bank.Sometimes 911 calls the police. I have worked at some facilities where codes like this alerts security. Use at your own risk.
The Scottsdale Police Department plans to create a cyber-crimes unit next year. Well, might as well apply for the position. I only live 20 minutes away and if they're going to hire someone for the job it might as well be a nerd and not some suit.
Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
Ponder how you might feel if you were a Regular Joe using your WiFi equipment. You read the confusing literature and try your best to secure your WiFi network. But you're not exactly sure if you go it right. Now you find out that there are people out there lurking around in your neighborhood whose sole purpose is to look for unsecure networks and... and you don't know what, but you're not exactly excited to find out what these wardrivers are going to do once they've gained access.
Will they gain access to your network? Maybe, mabye not. But it makes you nervous because unlike most Slashdot readers, technology is not your life. You're just doing your best with the stuff you bought at the local ComputerShack.
In many ways it is like using Windows. You try your best to secure it against malware and spam, yet the stuff still gets in. You've read the manuals and you do your best, but this stuff that was supposed to be easy is not only a pain in the ass, it now can potentially screw with your life.
The worst part is that the Internet is now so tightly intertwined with most people's lives that to do without it is a major inconvenience. True, nobody is forcing you to use WiFi, but you want convenience, and you don't want to be victimized by people who for all you know could have serious malicious intent. You don't know who these wardrivers are, but you do know that they drive around snooping for open networks. Now tell me honestly, if someone were driving around your neighborhood snooping for open telephone lines, and you had no idea whether your telephone line was secure or not, wouldn't be a bit nervous?
Bashing on regular computer users perpetuates the stereotype that technically-savvy computer geeks are elitist snobs who take every opportunity to trumpet their intellectual superiority while taking advantage of the less technically-inclined.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
i would like to thank the police on revealing how much time is left before wardriving identity thieves will face any risk of getting caught.
1 year... better start trippling up on efforts!
-judging another only defines yourself
I support either much higher taxes on gated commuties, or the removal of publicly funded services for them. Why should my taxes contribute to things like roads and grounds keeping for a plot of land that I'm not even allowed to be on?
They don't!
Jesus, why is this modded insightful? I used to live in a gated community. The $50 a month I payed to the homeowners association went to trash pickup and road upkeep.
A gated community doesn't use your taxes to keep its roads up. Those roads are privately owned by the homeowners association (which is an incorporated business).
word
We're looking for terrorists!
:-)
[pause while cybercrime squad relaxes]
D'ya know of any we could join?
<G/D/R> (-: Grin/Drive/Rapidly
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
No encryption, no access controls, accessible to the public
Hmmm....
1) Setup up a web server on my broadband connection.
2) Put up some content with no access controls.
3) Have police monitor the access logs and arrest everyone that visits my site for theft of my bandwidth.
4) ?????
5) Profit!!
After much driving about and not being able to lock onto a signal and keep it for the requisite amount of time we went to a restaurant, which turned out to have free wireless access!
I had a neighbor who I cut his wifi because he was so freakin' paranoid about someone warjamming his connection from the sidewalk. Anyway, this guy is gone, hasn't been able to get a job etc etc... thus, had to vacate his loft. sorry to see a guy with 15 years admin experience... but there's a limit to how much good intentioned paranoia can be tolerated in a corporate atmosphere. So while he was in a sense right... he was flat out wrong. And it cost him his livelyhood.
... say a year or two from now. But his appproach seemed to me to be a major "WTF", even with WEP and MacAddressed access combined, all they could do is warjam. So who gives a rats ass. The spammers as always will be looking for easy targets. Who'd want to collect a gig of data from some dude in downtown SF to hack his wifi AND manage to clone a mac address? I mean he had a lesser DSL connection than me!!! Sure more machines, but still.. every admin should be paranoid, but not too paranoid to be able to live with reality.
I hung out with him frequently because me and him got along. When he aboned his wifi and went back to ethernet. I asled him what that was about. He mentioned that he was unable to "absolutely secure his wifi network". My rhetoric to him was "Why the %^&** would someone want to sit out on the sidewalk and warjam your wifi? I mean.. what do you matter and why would anyone give a %^&%?". His answer? "The spammers man... they're everywhere and will take whatever they can get. And I run windows here as well as Red Hat". Right answer but wrong again. Sure, we'll be seeing that in says to come, wardriving for network access to attack and then spam
I work in scottsdale 3-4 times a week, everyone has laptops and everyone had wireless networks for said laptops. Amazingly all the networks are name linksys, although theres 1 or 2 that are name My Network and one that is quite humorously named StayOut and has no wep, wap, or mac filtering.
I find it hilarious that if a know-nothing computer user buys a network card, plugs it in to their computer, accidentally connects to the "default" network, they are actually guilty of tresspassing...
Yes it is. Before the internet, all data communication was done phone-to-phone with modems. Most of the people I knew with modems (which wasn't many) actively wardialed. Nobody really knew what it was, nobody was looking out for it, and you certainly wouldn't get busted for it until a few years later after Wargames came out. Government wasn't nearly as aware of security back then compared to now either. There was no caller-ID and tracing phone calls wasn't easy. It was not really much different than port scanning, just much slower.
The phone company wasn't set up for security of any kind so there were all kinds of fun things you could do with their circuits.
I don't know if the movie invented the term, but it certainly made it official.
I can just imagine it now. COPS, the TV show, filming police officers pulling over a suspicious vehciles driving around an upperclass neighborhood. They approach the car and find two males, one's holding a laptop. They start yelling "close the fucking laptop" and the two men freeze in terror. One guy unwittingly opens his door and starts moving when one of the officers pulls him out and tackles him to the ground. "Your pasty white ass is going to jail, boy!" The other man quickly surrenders as the other officer rushes the car. Back-up arrives. The two distraught men are man-handled as they are shoved into the hood of the police cruiser. One officer turns to the camera. "Yeah, these wardrivers. A real menance to society. We're just doing our job--taking criminals off the street."
And if there happen to be any bored geek kids living inside the gated community it really doesn't matter who's on the gate. The kids can wardrive inside the gated area anyway. Or even war-walk with a laptop in a backpack...
and the cost of sending high school nerds house to house to show these fools how to enable WAP/WEP encryption keys
;)
Well, since the Goobacks are shoveling the walks these days, the high school students can go door to door asking people if they'd like their networks secured for twenty bucks.
See, that's how outsourcing is good for us.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Mandating that the dorms in which the females at school reside be constructed out of glass :D
I'm sure everyone is thinking something along those lines. Maybe someone else can say it better.
and back on topic, don't use wireless. Sure wires can be a pain, but I don't trust wireless, even if I think it's been secured, not broadcasting is much safer and in most cases wireless is a convenience factor, not a requirement. If they're that worried about people snooping their wireless, why do they run it at all? I definitely wouldn't (and don't).
You should be able to setup your network so that your MAC's get full priority, all others can use your leftover bandwidth. NoCatAuth should be able to hand this. Throw in a firewall and a wondershaper so their downloads don't crush your ACK's and you have something that makes everybody happy, except maybe your provider.
Consumer WAP's should operate in this mode by default with a nice wizard to help people set it up securely and easily. Cringely would probably argue you should get a penny per megabyte they transfer.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Just think, people don't really know how to fix their own cars, but they know enough to know what sorts of problems might crop up, and more importantly, enough to do what needs to be done to maintain their cars reasonably well within the limits of what they, as nonexperts, can do. The only reason people know this is that there has been a culture passed from one person to the next of this kind of practical knowledge. Maybe some geeks should do their part to help disseminate the (frankly not very extensive) knowledge necessary to secure home wireless networks.
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
the older the user the less likely they will be computer saavy. the older u are the more likely u have more money. so it makes sense younger people go out and invade older folks computers and networks after all that's where the money is.
example - neighborhood where houses are selling for usd $850,000 last year we were in network of neighbor across street.
if u aren't a computer type, more computers equals more money to afford them, more likely to have wireless router, more likely to be a little older, kids, wife, yourself all have a system.
thousands put out for systems, which means thousands in the bank (usually). and guess it pays to be nosy in the right neighborhood.
i live in a nice neighborhood, i think i just convinced my self to do a little wardrivin' my self.
From inside my house in Arizona my laptop picks up 8 wireless networks the neighbors are using. 3 of them use WEP the other 5 are wide open. If people would just get a clue and read the manual we wouldn't have this problem. I'm sure my neighbors aren't intending to share their network with everyone around them.
There have been some analogies here trying to demonstrate how rediculous this is, but I've got a take I don't see posted already. Let's ignore for a second the technical details of associating to APs, broadcasting one's SSID, "inviting people in" by running a DHCP server, etc.
Wardriving is analagous to walking down the street ringing doorbells. Some people ignore you. Some people come out and say hi. Some invite you in for tea. There's nothing wrong with knocking, even though some knocks precede burglaries. You don't see the cops setting up special task forces to investigate phonecalls even though that's a great way to find out that somebody's home and you shouldn't try to break in, do you?
Maybe I'm missing something, but this whole thing seems rather silly.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
IANAL... but... Cops searching motorists for laptops? Users relieved of responsibility for using a product incorrectly?
Have you ever read the owner's manual for your vehicle? The label on a bottle of bleach? The side of a cup of coffee from McDonald's?
Warnings exist for a reason: to protect you. I haven't seen too many WiFi products in recent times that _don't_ specifically warn you about securing your WLAN in the documentation. You also now have options in terms of security over regular WEP.
These are steps in the right direction for WiFi - and geeks prescient concern demanded them, not lawsuits!
Yeah, you can read the directions, but you can learn by burning your mouth on hot coffee too.
As for people driving around, this is covered by loitering, conspiracy - and (esp. in gated communities), trespass statutes. Police/ security guards should already be looking for people parked and sitting in their vehicle for extended periods of time.
In all likelyhood, the neighbor's kid is the l337 phr34k stealing their AmEx, not some shadowy figure in a van.
BTW - In Scottsdale/Paradise Valley, there's law enforcement all over the place in neighborhoods, using lots of photo-radar - because rich folks can't drive 25 or stop for red lights either.
Now I know how they'll pay for all those extra "WiFi cops."
You don't have to be unusually clueful to know that running unprotected Windows on an open internet connection is "asking for it".
Too many people, especially in the good old US of A, seem to think that every clod should be protected from his/her own stupidity and mental laziness. E.g. the lady who made a fortune from suing a restaurant for serving hot coffee that was unexpectedly hot. And now this.
Yes, it's a waste of tax dollars nannying these "victims".
If the damned fools would at least be intelligent enough to even change their access point's passwords that'd be a significant help right there. I had to deal with this stupidity the other evening in my own apartment building.
____ _______
Duty now for the future!
Classes should be available, and probably already are at a local community college. But this is not the job of the police, and the costs should not come out of a law-enforcement budget. Costs for this kind of thing should be borne 100% by the users attending the classes.
Sex with wild monkeys is the best kind!
I seem to recall people worried about this two or so years ago. It's why WPA was brought out. Did wireless internet just now get to Scottsdale? This is no longer news, and no longer matters.
Some want free Web access,
I get a little irritated that so many journalists don't seem to be able to shake the notion that "the internet" and "the web" are equivalent. If they just wanted free web access, they could go to the library. What they're more likely to be interested in is large downloads.
while others use the opportunity to watch users entering passwords, credit card numbers and other information.
Isn't credit card information typically encrypted by the time it gets onto the network? I can understand not securing home networks, but not having a secure site for credit cards is unforgivable.
But then we have... the Stonegate resident who granted access to a suspect in August noticed a charge to an online store on his American Express card.
So how did they get the credit card information? Why is he so sure that it was the evil wardrivers? Credit card fraud has been going on for longer than wireless networks. Okay, someone could have got into his computer and snooped around a little, or installed a keylogger. But if that would be quite possible to do even if they didn't have a wireless network. Simply go through the internet.
I post my wireless research here. http://mb.citiwireless.com/
If you liked what I had to say, please show you appreciation by making a contribution to the FreeNet project.
http://freenet.sourceforge.net/
Have Fun,
-Steve
Huhhhh, I said marriage. http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=marriage%2 0AND%20mediatype%3Amovies
How's this for protecting your data? Close your wireless networks. WEP's better (not by much, but still better) than no WEP at all.
i bet the cops and government agents themselves snoop in on
open networks whenever posssible.
it would not be in their nature to resist.
Hmmm. Jenna Jameson lives in Scottsdale, and she films pr0n with her husband at her house. .
/I don't know what's worse, that I know she lives in Scottsdale or that she films at her house.
"No beer until you finish your tequila!" -Leela's Dad
have i been accosted due to my wardriving (walking) exploits...by some fatass who warned me that the neighbors around here "didn't like people walking around at night"...
Where I work, we have a radio/microwave tower located on the top of a hill. The tower is in the middle of a gated community of $500-$600,000 homes. The password to get in is 0000. I always get a good laugh that people feel so secure in there, when the password is one of the first set of numbers that a lot of people would try.
works for me. Matches my hat too!
Why bother locking your front door? I can just come along and kick it off its hinges. What's the point of locks?
Typically, post here are full of smarmy comments from geeks and techs and poseurs who may understand machines but don't have a clue about how their own species operates.
Here's the scoop: If someone's Internet connection is insecure, they will blame you -- the techies -- for not making it secure. Everytime someone starts to preach about "stupid users" getting what they deserve because they aren't running the right firewall or using some software du jour, those "stupid users" are hearing techies recommend cumbersome technical remedies for problems caused by techie failures in the first place.
People want this stuff to be secure when they plug it in. If it isn't, it's your fault, 'cause you make the stuff.
Wireless is insecure. That's not the users' fault. It's your fault. First one to make it secure makes a billion dollars.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Whenever I go anywhere, and I'm not driving, I bring my laptop with onboard 802.11bg, and when I see an unprotected wireless AP, I connect, see if the router is on a default password, and rename the AP to "insecure".
Quick, fairly painless, and fairly obvious, no?
Just my $0.02
It's only an insult if it's not true.
uh oh... looks like somebody is using fake whois info on their domain... say goodbye..
Really? How many people do you know that live in gated communities that you're basing this assumption on?
This is a few months old, but I think Dvorak is right on this one:
The Looming Legal Threat to Wi-Fi
Usurper_ii
Ron Paul
While this is a fun analogy, there's a difference: using someone's AP is not a passive activity. Looking at the airwaves in search for active APs is not an issue, it just becomes one when you try to use the AP to connect to its owner's network. The light analogy doesn't fit, you'd have to cast light back into the house and interact with the lamp, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. :) Or look at it that way, it's like using a IR remote to turn on the light on the front porch so that you can read by it.
Note that I'm not opposed to using open APs - for the moment, I've set mine up as open because I don't mind people using it - just saying the analogy doesn't really apply.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
I live in Phoenix and saw this on the news the other night. This is a gated-community in Scottsdale with a guard-shack which is manned 24/7. Apparently these people think that the gate on their community and the guard at the gate should mean that people who don't live there shouldn't be able to interact with their wireless signals as well.
Anyway what was reported on the news here was that some tech who was in the neighborhood to repair someone's computer had somehow stolen financial information from them. What wasn't clear was how this was known, my guess is some form of identity theft or credit card fraud. How they were able to pin this down to a technician who was in the neighborhood to repair someone's computer is beyond me, unless they actually caught the guy using the information or something.
What was interesting about the story was that everyone commenting or reporting seemed to have no clue that this could easily be done from OUTSIDE the neighborhood. It was astonishing that they were reporting it in a way which would lead people to believe someone would actually have to get past the guarded gate and into the neighborhood to get into someone's computer. I was dumbfounded.
Keith D.
Okay --
I'm coming clean. I have a wireless network and I haven't bothered to secure it.
Honestly, a big part of it is just laziness.
But it's laziness tinged with a bit of Robinhood-ism. I'm perfectly happy to have someone piggy back on my connection. I don't use it 90% of the time. I'm paying the same amount whether others use it or not. The slight loss in bandwidth is negligible for my purposes.
Now comes the real sinful part -- I am ignorant. Is this a bad idea? Why?
I don't think any of neighbors are spam kings. If I got a cease & desist for illegal downloading or something -- well, honestly, I think it'd probably be pretty cool to play lawyer for a while (okay, I am lawyer... but it'd be fun to play on my own behalf for once... And yes, everything they say about the quality of a lawyer representing himself is true....) Worst case scenario -- they'd kill my connection and I have to fight to get it back. Fine.
I'm one of those "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" techies -- is these some part of the picture I'm missing?
On a slightly different note -- my confusion is a great barometer of public sentiment. I read Slashdot on a regular basis. I built my own computer (even if it never has worked quite right). I'm about as tech-savvy a lay person as you're going to find. And at no point during the 15 minutes or so I read through this thread did anyone present a clear argument of what the problem is.
How are you going to explain the issues involved to brain dead simpletons if you can't make it plain to a brain dead lawyer?
Ready? Aim? Fire!
I would think that if you brodcast open networks onto public property then those airwave become public. If it has WEP enabled then it is still in public space but it is saying you dont want unautherized persons to access it. If its open and in public space its fair game!
$500-600k is a "starter home" in this entire area. Typical single family homes range from $800k to 1.2M with taxes from $12k to 25k per year.
Money usn't what it used to be.
It's cell phones and scanners all over again.
Until cell phones came along it was understood in the RF community that all signals were capable of being monitored. Suddenly with cell phones, every Joe Sixpack is operating a transmitter w/o a clue. When it get's pointed out to them that anyone can listen in, they get all indignant and call their legislators to "do something about it".
I wonder what they would say if they knew that wired telephones and networks aren't generally TEMPEST shielded.
Does someone have a link or two describing how to properly secure wireless networks in different OS's?
Sheesh, I set up my first wireless network over the weekend, fired up my laptop to connect to it, and, to start out, used a stumbler application because I wanted to see how the network would look to anybody outside. I was surprised to detect 2 other wireless networks somewhere in the neighborhood, one secured, one wide open (the default name was still the vendor name and no password). I did not try to connect, but I could have, and anyone monitoring either network would have seen an obvious signature of a scan from me -- but it wasn't wardriving. I did this from my *basement*. Analogy to tuning into other people's publically emitted broadcasts is reasonable, and not every act of tuning in to someone else's station is with malice, or even intention. My probe of my neighbor's networks was just a side-effect of searching for my own home network.
Acts of stealing credit card numbers and committing fraud are already illegal. Breaking into encrypted and password-protected systems is already illegal. The line is clearly drawn. Merely scanning or tapping into wide-open broadcasts shouldn't be illegal. It all depends on what people do with that opportunity. And if people are too stupid to close and lock their electronic doors, then, yes, the chances that someone will decide to use the broadcast wireless signal for some nefarious and illegal purpose is vastly higher. That's an education problem.
You would *think* that people living in a gated community would already have some semblance of a CLUE about these things!! The article suggests they're most worried about someone getting access to the subdivision to do "wardriving" there. Big deal. Get a proper antenna, and someone wouldn't need physical access.
Meanwhile, Chicago was celebrating yesterday because for the first time since 1999 a whole day went by without anybody in the city getting shot.
Perhaps a public education program of sorts is in order, but unless there is some evidence that the wardrivers are actually using the unsecured access points to do harm--commit fraud, utter threats, steal identities, trash systems--this really doesn't seem to be something that needs to be a police priority.
~Idarubicin
Here is my take on this. The arizona residents sit there in thier suburban palace in this private neighborhood and they watch the local news and see a report on wardriving. Then because they have visited so many bad pr0n sites and have so many versions of spyware and the likewise on the system that the AP is always going crazy. Automatically they assume that because there is a car outside(probably belonging to a meter reader) they think its an "evil hacking wardriver" that wants to steal all that is holy to them. Just makes me sit back and laugh at the ignorance, funtimes!
I don't know about anyone else, but I like to be able to pick up a good signal where ever I am... in fact, I leave a node open just for folks passing by. Hey, see it, use it, respect it, and it'll always be there!
Scotsdale residents complain about a new class of electromagnetic radiation, called radio waves, escaping from their homes into surrounding streets from their wireless networking appliances. Like the well-known class of electromagnetic radiation commonly called "light", which also escapes from many Scotsdale resident's homes and into surrounding streets, there is great concern about home intrusion and loss of privacy as a result.
A closer comparison to the better-known "light" is instructive. As most people know, the default configuration of most homes allows easy escape of light out of built-in structures called "windows", designed to make homes more "user friendly".
The implications for light are frightening, according to a university optics specialist: "Once they can see light passing out of your window, they could take their time attempting to see what they want and steal views of any of your activities," he said. "It's nearly impossible to find them, unless you look the other way out of the window and see them standing outside watching."
Because of "light", most people now know that they should make efforts to "secure" the vulnerabilities caused by having "windows" in their home. The electromagnetic radiation emitted by wireless access points can be just as dangerous to people's privacy, but many people are unaware of the corresponding danger.
Don't worry, though the spectre of causing crime with yet another type of electromagnetic radiation is scary, your local police department is on the case. Next year they will be setting up a special unit to handle the new class of crimes enabled by this new-fangled technology.
Until then, residents are advised to make sure that no one is allowed physical access within 200 feet of their homes. Like light, nefarious people can't detect this new type of electromagnetic radiation any further than about 200 feet, its standard range.
"Once they're on your network, they can take their time attempting to hack into your computer and steal information," he said. "It's nearly impossible to find them, unless you see them sitting in their car outside."
It's impossible to see, unless you open your eyes!
What is more worrysome here is the prosecution aspect if it is allowed to continue without some sane boundaries. I can't accidentally break into someone's house or steal someone's car. I can accidentally log on to the wrong wi-fi network, similar to what my cousin did when he visited my apartment a while back. The more convenient technology becomes, the easier it is to break some law you are not aware of; especially with the abundance of public-use wi-fi areas proping up now. The ironic aspect of the discussion is that the same people painting all wardriving as malicious because they can't secure their own networks would probably be the same people who would unwittingly break the laws they are screaming to create because it is so easy to access the wrong network.
Did anyone else catch that? Classic SNL skit for Old Glory Robot Insurance. How very appropriate.
Hecubas
If I lived in the area of this upscale neighborhood, I would be down there in a heartbeat trying to sell these folks WIFI wallpaper. It blocks their wireless signal, so it can protect against WarDriving, X10 Wireless Cams, and Wireless phone (land line) easedropping.
Of course, I would fail to mention that their cell phone phone would no longer work in their home, as it most likely operates in the same range that this wall paper blocks.
WIFI Wallpaper google search
Edwin Davidson www.Acmenews.com
won't anyone think of the children????
EVERY wireless access point manual I have seen has had bold letters and special sections explaining the super easy process of enabling security.
EVERY wireless access point manual emphasizes the need to change the default SSID, password, etc.
The users don't read it or do it. They just turn the thing on and go surf.
Why don't the manufacturers turn on the security by default? Because they lose sales when customers bring the units back to the store because they are "broken." Because they lose money having to dedicate half their support staff to just explaining why the customer's AP is not broken just because security is enalbed.
I have tried to teach my own brother why he should care and told him it is easy and told him to look in the manual. He is still running an unsecured access point for 4 months now because he will not take 15 minutes to learn something new.
Non-geeks don't care. They won't ever care until they get burned with a loss of money from stolen information.
I have read the most of the comments on this subject and I will have to agree on most of them. If we look at the bigger picture you will find that we really don't have real privacy. Big Brother is wathcing you !
Microsoft has an article that explains why they have secured the Outlook client so much that the typical end user cannot change it. Microsoft states they have to protect us from Virus attacks (ourselves).
You can read this for yourself at http://office.microsoft.com/assistance/hfws.aspx?A ssetID=HP073264181033
I don't need to be protected by microsoft, thank you very much. Sounds a little like Irobot. At some place in time microsoft decided that we needed to be protected without asking us. Do we need big corporations and the government deciding that we can't take care of ourselves and we need someone to do it for us?
Like creating a task force to monitor cybercrimes and wardriving and whatever they come up with. Instead of educating people they will tell us what we can and can't do.
Wake up call --- take a look around you and begin seeing that little by little we are loosing our freedom to be like our forefathers intended us too.
----Peacelast I heard its legal to receive radio signals..
Prove I'm doing something illicit with them, while I'm parked on a PUBLIC street..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Very good and enlightening anecdote. (The part about someone walking into an unlocked dorm without invite.) Thank you.
I give you: pseudo-mod: "+2 Insightful"
Furry cows moo and decompress.
Well, you see, this is obviously open for debate, however, this would fall back on the ISP/installers since they installed the equipment (in most cases) and left their customers' systems vulnerable to attack. Potentially, for example, AOL/Time-Warner would be liable for leaving my system(s) exposed to the public because they failed to properly install the equipment. If that's the case, they should have left a line of coax draped across my fence and into my neighbor's yard.
Granted no auto manufacturer teaches you how to drive a car, but they at least give you a manual to read about how the car functions, just like any other manufacturer of about 99% of the companies in the world. If you don't know how to use a pencil, you're an IDIOT and need to go back to kindergarten. My point is, the information on how to secure your equipment is readily available and inept users are going to blame anynoe they can for their laziness instead of getting off their asses to keep people from surfing on their dime.
Blame can be placed in a lot of categories, though, I feel that blame will be placed mainly on ISPs and also on the wardrivers (since all of them are inherently evil and will steal your identity) *cough, bullshit, cough* because no one wants to take responsibility for their inability to learn new things and secure their assets.
Afterall, Kroger lets me into their grocery store. I, could, steal a box of Cheerios, but will I? I think what makes a wardriver a criminal or not is whether he/she actually compromises security measures on a network/system with harmful intent. The part that's really going to cook your noodle is whether or not I intend on bringing you harm.
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
The info is accurate. The ownus is on you to prove its fake. I will be more than happy to take legal action on the basis of slander and tortious interference of anyone who tries to falsely accuse me of this.
lightbulbs DON't have the technology to allow only authorized user to see the light. if they did, I would assume that I'm just fine using any light that is allowed to be public.
wifi does have this technology -- almost everyone I know INTENTIONALLY leaves their AP open; it's the right thing do to.
My point was really to the OP of making sweeping judgments of other people so he could feel holier-than-thou
/bin/fortune | slashdotsig.sh
It may already be against your AUP, and i bet if someone uses your WAP and does something illegal, you get blamed for it.. with the way the court system is today..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
A lot of the comments by the police department and "authorities" in TFA make absolutely no sense (like that's a big surprise, considering that we're talking about network security here). They say things like "a wardriver could sit on business premises and hack your website". This concern is bogus. If I were a cracker and wanted to crack some company's website, I sure as hell wouldn't sit in their parking lot to do it. I would find a nice safe anonymous internet proxy to connect from and launch my exploits from there.
Unsecured wireless network connections should be seen as a kind of "open internet connection" with a smaller audience. If you wouldn't attach an unfiltered internet connection to a certain network resource, you shouldn't connect an open wireless connection to it either. If you're really paranoid, you can consider secured and unsecured wireless equivalent in that regard.
ISP's should be the first to try and educate the public. They are the people making the most money off of us.
Here a few big names I can think of right off the bat.
1. Aol
2. Cox
3. Adelphia
4. SBC DSL
5. etc......
Maybe these orginizations aren't the ones making the routing equipment or security software but they are the ones making big money off the public.
They are surely the experts and can definitely create highly informative public messages to assist the public in keeping secure.
Here's how it would go.
1. Overview of computers and security.
2. Identify types of threats.
3. Precationary measures to take.
4. How to determine if u have been hacked.
5. Measures to take once hacked.
6. Legal action that can be taken onced hacked.
(in this department the Lobbyist can pitch in)
Simple isn't it.
those LAZY, RICH FUCKS pay some kid to configure their shit for them?
I have absolutely no sympathy for elitist Mayo physicians who cannot take the time to address the rest of life. That's why there's terrorists flying planes into buildings and killing each other. Because they don't have time to vote or pay attention to their local school board's selection for principal. Just make the Company's bottom line, and let the insurance companies argue over necessary care.
I know that Universities teach you to focus. Focus, focus, focus. Don't do anything else but memorize drugs and clinical studies.
Don't use the technology, or don't expect me to give a shit when someone hacks your shit and rips off your DEA number, along with your social security number and your bank account passwords.
Whoot for Scottsdale! Whoot for the Mayo! Whoot for working your interns and residents 120hours a week on salary! Whoot for chosing a different posting on your placement.
I say fuck'em. I couldn't care less if the cops don't ever get around to it.
> The ownus is on you to prove its fake. I will be more than happy to take legal action
The fact that you can't spell onus makes me wonder. It's interesting that there is no record of Rolloffle Rd. in Tarzania, but really, I don't give a fuck if WHOIS info is accurate or not.
If you're going to nitpick my grammar at least get your own grammar and style correct.
/. hypocrisy - state we hate censorship but practice it all the time!), I'd think you would care. Of course, things like "facts" have never gotten in the way of ignorant people like you in the course of spewing out shit, but hey..
Assuming you were the AC who claimed that you were going to try to take down the domain (Hooray, another example of
BSA/*AA wardriving suing people for illegal distribution of copyrighted material.
Dude, unless you firewall yourself from the wireless segment, you get broken into as well.
And remember, if Mum and Dad go broke because somebody ripped off their banking info your meal ticket just got cancelled.
But I've translated a few product manuals and what happens is usually they will contract with some company that has flashy marketing but does a shitty job to save bucks. Then they will get complaints because it's not even decent Engrish. If the product is crap, they will leave it at that. If it is a money maker, they may look for a real translator --meaning a native English speaker or someone who has lived in an English speaking country for many years-- and spend the bucks that such a service costs. Surprsingly, this is a major cost that is typically avoided. Engineers can be had cheap even in relatively affluent countries like Taiwan or Korea when you compare their wages to the cost of using native English speakers.
I might sound like an interesting career, but since it's only occasional work it's not a great bargain for the native speaker either. That's the main reason why you usually just get a shitty incomprehensible manual. Besides, who reads the manual in the age of the GUI? Writing them is about as enjoyable as shaving off your fingernails with an uneven rusty razor. It could cause long-term damage to your mental health.
Then again, I have an uncle who does support for Oracle. He's seriously damaged goods.
They must either pay us to setup their computers/networks, or allow us free reign in using those devices as we wish! It is our destiny! They are but meat for our consumption! They are sub-human, meant for servitude. Let them serve quietly and humbly, and no complaining about rights to property and such. They have only the rights WE give them! Stupid Eloi!
No, I was not the AC, I always use my handle: Karma is for Hindus, I am not Hindu. With that in mind, fuck you.
> hings like "facts" have never gotten in the way of ignorant people like you in the course of spewing out shit, but hey..
Like the fact that I said I didn't care that the info was wrong, and then you attacked me anyway claiming I was trying to do something COMPLETELY contrary to what I said? Smooth.
1- Thanks for trotting out that tired shit AGAIN, as if there's such an important and official distinction.
2- So what if they do BOTH? Then what do you call them?
3- I'm sure a 2600 group is a much better place to start than just listening to some guy that spends time weeping into a dictionary.
So you are not the AC, yet you replied responding to my post that was not directed towards you. A case of someone butting in to a conversation they don't belong in?
Oh so you want to attack me for your own stupidity. Smooth!
Whats that I hear? Oh, its the short bus honking its horn. Its time to go to your "special ed" classes.
> A case of someone butting in to a conversation they don't belong in?
Don't belong? If I don't belong in it, DON'T HOLD IT IN A PUBLIC FUCKING FORUM. Since you DID, everyone belongs in it.
If you ever get accepted to college somehow, I suggest you take a course in logic, you seem to need it.
Okay, shit for brains, I was addressing the AC who replied to me. Apparently whatever pathetic excuse for literacy you claim to have isn't good enough for you to understand that.
I suggest you check out your local public library. They probably have some adult literacy courses for people like you to take. At least you can get to be around people of your own kind: niggers, homeless, and the mentally retarded.
At least that one took some thinking on your part.
Do you always laugh at and mock people smarter than you?
Here in Collie-Fornia, laptops in the front seats of cars have been illegal since January, as are other digital devices with display screens that aren't built-in and are forward of the driver's seat-back. I'm not sure if that includes DVD players in the front seat section (or if that's already illegal), and the law doesn't appear to have been intended to ban cellphones, but it's definitely not legal for the driver or even the passenger to operate laptops in the front seat. The motivation is to prevent accidents caused by distracted drivers, but wardriving gets hit as a side effect, unless you do it from the back seat while your chauffeur drives.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Well, what about all that equipment we're carrying to catalogue gaseous anomalies? The thing's gotta have a tailpipe.
Yes -- that's why i didn't laugh at you or mock you. You haven't said anything funny, nor have you said anything worthy of even mockery. It's all just shit smeared on a web page.
The shit is yours. Your inability to form a logical or cohesive argument proves this and your mockery of the facts I present proves that you are not willing to have a civilized discussion.