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Waterproof MP3 Player Uses Bone Conduction
An anonymous reader writes "Aquatic training product manufacturer Finis has just released a waterproof digital music portable for swimmers and surfers that claims to solve a problem with such devices in the water. Regular earphones don't work well because they need an uninterrupted air channel to function. What makes the SwiMP3 unique is that it uses bone conduction to stimulate the inner ear and deliver sound."
The only painful bit is getting the 3.5mm jack inserted into the back of your skull.
I'm forever stimulating my bone. I don't need another device to do it for me.
Cool, but how deep will it go? Can I bring it on a 300' deep scuba dive to entertain me during hours of long decompression stops?
This may be new to the MP3 world, but this method is nothingnew.
"The BAHA is a surgically implantable system for treatment of hearing loss that works through direct bone conduction. It has been used since 1977, and was cleared by the FDA in 1996 as a treatment for conductive and mixed hearing losses in the United States. In 2002, the FDA approved its use for the treatment of unilateral sensorineural hearing loss." from here
Mark
Oh to be a shark. The meat is much more tender without fear-induced adrenaline pumped into it.
Trolling is a art,
But the mental picture of an iPod sitting in a fish tank conducting an orchestra with a bone is just...odd.
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Does anybody here know the frequency response of cheek bone? I would expect it to filter high frequencies.
Where would a swimmer put an mp3 player? It's not like there's some convenient pockets or anything.
I wonder if it would also work in generally loud (and not underwater) areas where you don't want to block some sounds with regular earphones.
I'm sure "SlashdotMedia" will improve on all the wonders that Dice Holdings blessed us all with
How does it deal with the accoustics of bone instead of air? In my head, my voice sounds like a sexy baritone, but when I hear my voice in voicemail, it sounds tinny and whiney. My point is that sounds coming through the air sound a whole lot different than sounds that resonate in your head.
More music, fewer hits
No really, I'm serious! This is why speakers are so much more popular than headphones: the sound appears to be coming from somewhere! With good headphones, you can still get a reasonable effect (My sennheisers make it seem like the music is right there at the outside of my ears, which is just where I like it) but with direct stimulation it's just not pleasant to have directionless noise coming from outta nowhere!
*#*#*#*#*#******* I love peanut butter sandwiches!
I can't see listening to music in the pool being a killer-app for it, but maybe the RIAA lawyers won't want to get their suits wet coming in after you.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I am holding out for the lotion-proof OGG player. It's got to support that bone thingy too.
If I am correct, this is along the exact same lines as the earpiece that Solid Snake wore in Metal Gear Solid for the PlayStation. It vibrated the bones in his ear so he could hear incoming transmissions "simulated" in his head, keeping the noise level down for stealth-factor.
This seems like a very cool and promising technology...I'm glad to see it finally entering the consumer market.
Two freaks, no foes. It takes absolutely nothing to make some people angry.
The bone phone marketed to "Joggers" back in the '80's IIRC used the smae method of sound transmission.. I have no idea how well it worked...
I wonder where you store the player while swimming? Is that a mp3 player down your swimming trunks or are you just happy to see me? :)
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I wonder what sort of music the sharks prefer with dinner? Maybe the theme from a lawyer show like LA Law?
See what I've been reading.
Bone conduction is actually a pretty good idea: the ear drum is too close to the density of the water to stop any sound wave when in immersion. The bones are hard enough to stop the fast sound waves though. Basically the bones from the neck and skull resonate and carry the vibrations.
I belong to a very rare subset of Geek known as the Tri-Geek. Guide to spotting the Tri-Geek - bike on car cost more than car, Wetsuit hanging in cube, funny tan lines, %10 body fat, empty Gu packs lying around instead of coffie cups and... an obsesive compulsive need to have the best, coolest, newest equipment available. I WILL have one of these! I don't care if it only holds 16 megs, they're going to sell a ton to people just like me. Now I'm off to find the credit card I hid from myself...
make a very loud noise if you try to listen to something while swimming. And it does not matter if you wear earplugs or not.
Does this solve this problem as well, or will I hear a second of bubbles followed by a second of "expected" sound?
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A product that was poorly marketed in the late 1970's was called the "Bone Phone." It was a walkman-style audio player intended for runners, and you heard the music through your bones (no earpiece). I believe it was invented by a Princetonian. If any patents are claimed on this, there is prior art! - systems curmudgeon, AKA: The Precision Blogger http://precision-blogging.blogspot.com
Does it work well when you aren't in the water too ? Seems to be the most useful situation :/
Bone Fone is a 70's example employing acoustic conduction through the body as opposed to the evolutionary air to ear route.
WW-II AT&T 'throat microphone' also made use of 'conductued' sound and it was common for early (20's) radio operators to place their headphones on skull or jaw behind ears rather than over ears. This afforded some degree of 'automatic volume control', protected them from loud static crashes, and made it easier to discern a weak signal when near a strong one.
Back when I swam a lot we puT speakers inside plastic bags and hung them ver the side of the pool. It was OK when both ears were under water but not practical for listening while swimming. Combined with speakers above the water it wasn't much better. Swimming is pretty noisy and indoor pool acoustics generally suck.
Do not look into LASER with remaining eye!
I'll first have to ask Frank if he doesn't mind the company in there.
I found the change refreshing....
What does society have against silence? Everywhere you go you are bombarded with music. At work you have the radio or hi-fi blaring. At home you have telly on permanently or your hi-fi blaring. When you go shopping you are subjected to muzac. In the car you have the radio/cd on.
Everywhere we are bombarded with mindless noise.
Now you can't even go swimming without having your mp3 collection zapped into your inner ear. Insanity.
Philip
Signatures are broken
This could also be useful for folks with certain types of conductive hearing loss, such as Treacher collins syndrome, which generally results in small, or no external ear structures, and other similar conditions.
This technology has been used in some types of hearing aids for years - again, for people who have small or missing external ear canals.
Just my winamp-in-a-headset's worth.
RickTheWizKid
Is that a mp3 player down your swimming trunks or are you just happy to see me? :)
Talk about bone...
Bone Phone . I wonder if that works in the pool too? I can see it now: "Can yub hear bee nowub?"
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Regular earphones don't work well because they need an uninterrupted air channel to function.
Some acoustic physicist please explain to me: Why wouldn't earphones work better underwater? AFAIK sound is propagated through compression waves, so it should work fine underwater as the density is greater. Am I missing something?
I remember being underwater in a swimming pool years ago, and I heard a watch alarm beeping. It was very clear, like it was next to me, but I found out that it was practically on the other end of the pool!
It's also the same basic concept used by some torpedoes (IIRC), you don't actually have to hit the bad guy's sub, you just have to explode close to it and the water will carry the shockwave right through 'em.
I think I'll wait for the reviews on this one... while I don't mind the bone-conductive sound, the unit looks really bulky to me. Being a masters swimmer who practices 4-5 times a week, even though the thought of music in the water is thrilling, the unit seems like it'd be irritating to those who don't wear a cap or earplugs to have anything foreign feeling around the goggles, IMHO. Anyone here ever try these things on?
I'd like to express my appreciation for your work. And if you're ever in town, I've got something cold, sharp, and 3.5 mm long I like to show you.
The H2Audio underwater mp3 system as been out for scuba diving for a while (a year?) and uses a hydrophone I beleive. They sit on the outside of the ear (you can't put anything in the ear as changing pressure might force it into the ear).
Oceanic Scuba Equipment
Spell check? Why bother. That is what grammer/spelling Nazi freaks who waiste band width posting "spell right" are for.
You can blow out your eardrums.
YAY TECHNOLOGY.
Let's get one thing perfectly clear, I did not vote for George W Bush, and I do not endorse what he does or says.
"
Yeah, yeah - others have mentioned it, but my first thought when I saw the headline was - someone else is trying to bring back 70's tech. I remember first seeing ads for the Bonephone in Omni Magazine. They were marketed as the geek's alternative to the uber-cool Walkman. The version I recall was a long flat unit that you wore around your neck, with the sound emitters resting one your collar bone. I also seem to recall that it was pulled from the market because people were experiencing bone damage (spontaneously breaking collar bones, etc), but that might be urban myth.
Colonel: Snake! Can you hear me?
Snake: I tried so hard... in the end... doesn't really matter...
Colonel: Snake?
Snake: I had to fall... lose it all...
Colonel: Who the f**k gave him an MP3 player?!
Naomi: err...
Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
Remember the "Bone Fone"???? (warning, nostalgia page!)
One handed typist huh, sorry couldn't resist.
Only 30 songs? How many laps of the wading pool is that exactly? I find it unusual that the unit holds such a limited number of songs.
I wonder about the possibilities of this technology for certain types of hearing impairment.
my bone-conduction hearing is far better than my air-conduction hearing in tests. they could be onto something here...
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
I've seen a bunch of devices lately that transmit signals through the body in various ways. This one uses your bones to transmit audio. I'm wondering if they've done enough analysis to see what kinds of medical problems might pop up after prolonged use of this device. I wouldn't want rapid onset of osteoporosis to occur because of an MP3 player...
I've always said that the best place to mount any control interface is on the back of your head!
so they can dream about one day having frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.
Though most of you here are too young to reemember it, there was a product that used 'bone conduction' back in the early 80's..
Sold by DAK and later ( i think ) sharperimage..
It was a radio.. And it fit over your neck like a towel.. And rather expensive from what i remember, but cool
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I think it would be more fun to have an underwater speaker that uses the water to conduct the sound. I remember I was in a pool once and someone at the other end of the pool heard my hour chime under water. It seems that water carries sound much better than air, but IANAP(physicist).
It would be neat to blast music to people underwater, and when you came out of the water you wouldn't be able to hear it at all.
I'm sure I'll get modded off-topic, but it still seems like a good idea.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
I'd get one right away if it featured ogg...
if it doesn't do ogg, it doesn't get my money. as simple as that
Does anyone know a source for bone conduction microphones? I'd like to play around with them with some electronic projects. So far the only ones I've found are already attatched to really expensive devices.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
Your bone's got a little machine.
will the vibration go through the water as well? Will dolphins be able to pick up da' funk with us?
Thanks, Beannie
Twenty years ago a company that ran ads in all the gadget magazines offered a "bone fone." It was marketed most directly to skiers as a means of listening to their music while skiing without having to muck with earphones and cables.
Even ignoring the potential problems for folks with inner ear troubles who want to dive (the music via bone conduction could contribute further toward disorientation and dizziness from such problems) the sound via this method sucked then, I suspect it will still suck now. There's a great step from "Wow I was deaf and now am able to hear!" to "...and I want to pay money to listen to lo-fi music through this thing while I'm diving (or any other time) because...?"
I have a pretty messed up right ear and I am a terrible swimmer, but even still I love the water. One of the things I love most is the difference in sound between out of the water and underwater. Why would anyone want to interrupt that rare peace with noise from the terrestrial world?
RIAA
Opens with couple on a beach the young woman goes swimming and dons her Swimp3. At first everyhing is nice and romantic but then we hear the music. From the bottom of the sea comes mean ultimate terror. The LAWYER.
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You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
You really should. This post was not "interesting" but the picture that answers your question (the one you see when you rtfa) is worth the click. Man does that thing look stupid. I mean, most swimgear looks pretty stupid, but this thing is remarkably stupid looking. They couldn't make it flatter and less conspicuous? The only way they could have made it stupider would have been to stick it in a fin... but even that would at least be stupid and funny.
I would love to see this technology used for some sort of alarm clock. There've been many times when I've had to try and catch a few winks in a very noisy environment. I've considered ear plugs but never tried it because I wasn't sure if the alarm would still wake me up. This would allow you to wear ear plugs to sleep and still hear an alarm to wake you up.
to fit under a motorcycle helmet.
This would be great if I could disconnect the ear- (bone?) phones from their player. Maybe hook them up to an iRiver iFP-899 with a gig of music.
The waterproof mp3 player reminds me of the Finger Phone. At least with the mp3 player you don't have to walk around with finger stuck in your ear.
a youngster like yourself, who has clearly not studied the vietnam war, only illustrates his ignorance by likening the present situation in iraq.
I oposed the vietnam war, at the time, and still think it was wrong. Mainly because a draft to protect foreign and corporate interets is, to my mind, immoral. A draft to protect US sovereignty is a different thing entirely and for WWII was clearly necessary. Our presence in Iraq protects American interests, NOT foreign. Bush will NOT impose a draft. If the military needs more personel for Iraq he will make volunteering more attractive. As it is, US casualties in Iraq are not much higher, as a percentage of troops deployed, than murder fatalities in many urban settings. Atlanta for example had over 1300 murders last year in a population of just under 500,000. Traffic fatalaties, as a percentage of population in Atlanta EXCEED the combined direct war and traffic casualties as a percentage of deployed troops in Iraq. Sure, you might get your ass killed in Iraq, but you're less likely to die there than in Atlanta!
Kerry has said he is opposed to a draft as well. But wait, there's more. Kerry has also proposed a mandatroy service requirement for US citizens. Under his proposal every citizen will be required ot either serve in the military or in some other capacity as a volunteer (peace corps, americorps, etc). This is a defacto draft with an out for the childre of those with influence...
Does it run Linux?
I remember drooling over the BoneFone http://pocketcalculatorshow.com/magicalgadget/inde x3.html#bonefone as a teenager (Many Many years ago). They never caught on and I never got to see one save in an ad. :(
Nothing to see here...Move along...Move along...
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
swiMP3.
swim pee three.
wimpy.
Bone conduction is nothing new. Some deaf people use bone conduction hearing aids for years. Some people have such a high level of conductive hearing loss that the only way to transmit sound waves is through bone conduction. This form of hearing aid is not common though.
Engadget had this three days ago.
Gorkman
Sound waves carrying across the ocean and ...
the effect on whales
Bone Conduction can also make you deaf. Try talking to anyone who has worn cans for more than 10 years in talk radio and you'll know that they're hearing is impaired, mostly due to bone conduction, forcing them to compensate by overiding the gain and subsequently damaging thier cochleas.
I'm not trying to scare anyone here but... hearing while swimming can mean your life! Wearing these could prevent you from hearing the SHARK MUSIC start and getting OUT of the water in time! These should be banned... or at least come with a VERY strong warning on the label.
Safety first!
-Don.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Back then, I purchased one item that "draped" around your neck... call the "Bone Fone"!
Not much anew about nothin' here. Probably also just as dangerous as they declared the Bone-Fone just as damaging to the skeleton.
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Okay, so maybe it's just that I lived with graphic designers in college, but I'm sick of companies that try to make up cutesy names ending in MP3. First the SliMP3, now the SwiMP3. I think any competent marketing person would throw out these names at first blush because, frankly, the branding is horrible. What's a slimp? What's a swimp? Yes, the meaning is intellectually obvious, but advertising is more about subconscious perception than intellectualism. To put it in geek terms, the brain will parse the text first, try to process it, then move on to the number. I guess that's why I'm an engineer and not a marketing droid...didn't want to deal with that crap. You better believe, though, that if I wanted to sell something I'd run it by an advertising gal/guy first.
I just received my waterproof MP3 player from swimman and it is a nice little unit that can clip to your goggle strap. I haven't had a chance to try it in the pool because of the rain, but I am looking forward to it.
My only complaint is that I would like to listen to audiobooks from iTunes, but they are in the wrong format for the device and hymn doesn't handle large audiobook files well.
--Keith
Great now I can share my Mp3s with all sorts of basal tetrapods, look out horned lizards you're going to hear Britney like you never did before.
I remember a few years ago coming across a site that mentioned using this technology combined with throat mics to permit totally inaudible verbal communication amongst members of tactical teams. (seals special forces that sort of thing) Though I can't seem to find a link at the moment. So this is really nothing new.
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:)
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
(but it was considered a joke... don't take it too personally.) 8-)
If this does work at any reasonable depth, I just hope that the user can still hear ambient noise like a boat or jetski nearby and be able to choose a safe ascent. (Sailboats are a different story.) If not I see a product liability suit with these earphones.
Also, no mention on if it interferes with equalization.
The Roman Rule: The one who says it cannot be done shall not interrupt the one who is doing it.
now i can drown to a soundtrack.
I'm John Kerry, and I approve this message.
Oblig Star Trek quote.. of course not, as it is only yet another ugly bag of mostly water.
Wasn't the original Jabra earpiece/earphone thing a bone conduction device?
Does it come with the hat?
How long will it be until we see this walking around town? Would be uncomfortable without the shower cap thing.
heh - I doubt it's likely, but what if the resonant frequency of bone was within the range of human hearing...it would manage to escape the MP3 compression :P
then again what if you got a virus that allows the frequency to not be filtered out and while you were happily swimming and listening, your skeleton suddenly shatters :D
yeah, but with the $200-500 it costs to make headphones sound good, you could get a set of nice speakers.
verdict: highly impractical.
BANANAPHONE!
Dammit that was my idea! I thought that it would be really cool to have an MP3 player that had headphones that used the same principle as hearing aids that used bones of your head to conduct sound.
I wanted to have a Blutooth enabled control pad stuck to your arm somehow. The only thing I could think of to stick the "skullphones" and the control pad to your body was Polygrip denture paste!
I have been waiting for one of these to come along. As an avid Whitewater Kayaker, I always wanted a MP3 player that I could listen to when paddling. This seems like just the solution, however, I could not see from the picture how the earpieces were attached ... It seemed like the band of the swimgoogles was holding them on? Not certain there...
For those out there who are paddlers like myself, I would only use it at places like surfing long beach Vancouver Island. Using it during a class IV+ run or something would be irresponsible IMO.
Anyone have any ideas of how to secure the headphones when you are dressed like this? and yes, I really do have Tux on my whitewater helmet... While kayaking in Washington state I got some really nasty comments from some people who lived around the Redmond area... Seems they did not like me "taking jobs" away from their area...
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
I wonder what that Crash Test Dummies song Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm sounds like? Would your head simply shatter and explode?
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Time to update the list of vestigial organs in the human body...
I really like how it holds 30 songs and fits all on your head, so there is no chance of it getting in your way and causing you to miss the wave... SwiMP3 - as if it's not even there...
Im going to hold out on buying one until they release the full body subwoofer addon.
Hopefully the iPod will have this soon so people will never have to take them off when showering, swimming, etc.
Free MP3 player
Snake, you can reach me at 149.86
As this is done through bone conduction as opposed to traditional conduction, I wonder if they need to change the strengths of the different frequencies being pumped out by speakers? Does anyone know whether or not there could be a set of resonant frequencies with respect to the cheek bone?