Slashdot Mirror
Supermarket Loyalty Cards Vs National ID Cards
john.wingfield writes "The BBC is running a story on a speech David Blunkett, the British Home Secretary, has given on ID cards and supermarket loyalty cards. He criticises the data protection arrangements for the loyalty cards whilst simultaneously (hypocritically?) promoting his own national ID card scheme, which is exempt from the Data Protection Act 1998. See also the UK Information Commissioner's (data protection and freedom of information watchdog) concerns about the ID card scheme."
Don't make the same mistake of clicking on the link that I did, unless you want to see a pig fucking a girl.
The cards were not a panacea for everything but could help stop terrorists using multiple identities Because everyone KNOWS that terrorists can't fake ID cards! Hell, that's probably why GB is the terrorist haven that it is now, because they don't have a national ID card!
Geez, I thought that only America had to deal with this kind of insane rationalization. And no, I don't have and never will have a "loyalty" (i.e. "We want to track you") card.
The National ID Card issue is way overblown. Almost everyone has driver's licenses. There should be some standard other than interstate communications that establishes identity through government issued IDs (to close up conterfeit holes). Put a smartchip on the driver's license, for example. But there should not be any requirement to carry the card unless you are doing something such as driving, buying beer, or passing through customs (each of which the gov't has a valid reason for wanting to know your identity).
There once was a man called Blunkett.
Loyalty Programs? He tried to debunk it.
But his views on privacy
Were pure hypocrisy,
So Britons everywhere said "Man, you flunk it!"
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
This is a fair warning, parent is a troll.
Thank you. I really needed to see a man get humped by a pig. Can a mod please get rid of that link after he gets slashdotted?
i don't like the whole idea of "loyalty" cards..
That is one good troll. My hat to you sire.
intersting? damn I feel like a dumb ass for following the link...
why is it that /. is so slow. Fark had the last two articles in the morning (or early afternoon)
For many retail purposes, a phone number is "good enough" as a UID.
I avoid those grocery store cards. I will go out of my way to find the stores that don't use them. Luckily the little mom&pop store down the street doesn't use them, so that's where I usually go.
Guess what? While their small size means their selection is limited, the overall prices are about the same as the larger stores that use the nasty little cards.
Even if the prices were higher, I'd still go there. Everyone in the store knows the location of every item. Can't find something? Ask the next kid in an apron, and they'll take you right to it.
sigs, as if you care.
Atleast in the case of this, I have a choise. In the Case of a National ID, not really...
dont you mods actually read comments to a post before modding up??????
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
If anyone thinks that just by not having a supermarket loyalty card they have more privacy, they are kidding themselves. If someone wants to know that on Friday I buy women's underwear and what size I prefer they are welcome to the information....as long as I get a free iPod
President ISES
(International Society for Elimination of Sigs)
I'll bet slashdot is about the only place where us Supermarket Refuseniks are in the majority. I won't use one (even one with fake info) and I won't buy a single item that requires the card to get the real price.
When the cashier asks if I have a $NAME_OF_STORE Card, I answer with a strong, cheerful "Nope!" and it's been years since anybody pressed the issue any further. I assume based on their reactions that they get a fair number of customers declining (and probably with varying levels of politeness), yet I don't ever notice another customer not handing over their keychain for verification of eligibility to pay only full retail.
It's an odd thing... all these millions (are they into the billions yet?) of dollars spent to administer these programs, and I've yet to hear a single believable* justification for it.
* 'because we want to save you money!' is NOT believable. If that was their goal, they'd lower the prices and be done with it.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Now this may sound a little paranoid (I know I'll be modded down just for saying the phrase above), but "worst case scenario" for you. [Tinfoil Hat Mode ON] It's only a matter of a couple of years until RFID-embedded national ID cards are a mandatory item one has to carry both in the UK and the US. The number of readers (both public, private and secret) will multiply at a geometric rate, with databases tracking more and more of our movements. And now that Texas school-children are being tracked under the guise of protection from kidnapping, how long before the same excuse is used to implant tags into every infant born at a major hospital. With further advances I am sure tags and readers will soon be developed that will allow detection and reading of the tags at several feet or even several meters. [Tinfoil Hat Mode OFF] Ok, so most of what I wrote is nonsense. But for how long? I wrote the worst case scenario because I believe that while we still have rights, we, as citizens should be on the lookout for these developments, so that the crap above does not come true.
People are quite happy to buy, say, a cucumber, condoms and KY-Jelly and then pass their "Loyalty Card" through a barcode/magstripe scanner thus telling the store owners exactly who just bought those particular items. Such market profile information is worth an absolute bundle for the marketing guys who now know your name, address, and product purchasing profile! LOL!
Yet people worry about having to carry an ID card, or they fear RFID tags.
It makes you wonder.
i can see why many people are frustrated... being tracked in places like supermarkets for worthless points is as annoying as being asked for your phone number when buying batteries (to which i always reply "i havn't had a phone for years") what is nice is if your past purchases of high end equipment are kept on record and you are eligible for substantial discounts (15%+)
Get your torrents...
Australia's next.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
as for the supermarket loyalty cards, they give the card, no one says you have to give them your address, they call me Mr Goatse at one store, one clerk figured it out and started laughing at my name. You can easily grab a handful of them, use one for every day of the week.
How can this guy promote national ID cards over supermarket cards. I'd rather have a supermarket
know I only buy Frosted Flakes on sale than a governement track EVERY facet of my life !
Governments and corps wont stop until they can wrench every last cent from customers by tracking their every move
Help pay for my wedding! Go to my kickass website
"Do you have a Kiroger card?"
'Nope'
"well...here's the card and the application" She swiped it, and gave me the blank app, to be filled out later.
The card works, and I just shredded the application.
So..just take the blank application, and say "I'll fill it out later".
I've been known from time to time to swap grocery store cards with friends, or else to give phony name and address information when obtaining one. The result is that I get discounts without totally giving up privacy, and the supermarket gets reliable data about a real person's short term shopping habits. The one thing the store loses is the ability to correctly map the shopping habits to a particular person. (You must pay with cash, of course, to make that work.)
I very much doubt that any country that institutes a national ID card system would let citizens swap cards.
Get to checkout, fumble briefly in your pockets, claim you have left your supermarket card at home by accident. Oh, that's fine, they'll say, and usually they'll just punch in a number and give you a discount anyway. Worst case scenario you still get to buy your groceries, you just have to pay a half a pound more. The horror.
Claim you lost your national ID card. Oh, sorry, you can't get on the plane.
Go and sign up for a supermarket card, or two or three, with false identity information. Claim you don't have a driver's license, or offer some flimsy piece of cardboard you printed up at home. There will be no negative repercussions for you in any way, at absolute worst one of these cards will get negated.
Go and sign up for a national ID card, or two or three, with false identity information. You have just committed a crime with a multi-year jail penalty.
Can you see why I might be more comfortable with the supermarket card than the government ID card?
tho now they want to mail the things to you.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
As opposed to national ID cards, loyalty card are optional. Sure you could say national ID cards are optional (you can move out of the country) but it is different. There is a much higher transaction cost in changing countries compared to changing supermarkets.
"brxref
The rhythm is off, but the rhyme is true, so the reader is left hanging. M yattempt to fix:
The once was a man named Blunkett
Privacy? Tried to debunk it.
But his guv'ment's card
Hit privacy hard
Hypocrisy test? He flunked it!
That was godwaful. See why I'm going to major in math?
Maybe coming from a country where ID cards (and having them with you) have been mandatory since I've been born has made me blid, but what exactly are people's concerns about them? As far as I remember, my privacy has never been threatened by them - I show it to the police to prove who I am, sometimes also to the post office when I collect a parcel. So they believe I'm actually the person who is registered as the owner of the car I'm driving or the recipient of the parcel I'm trying to collect - thank you, I'd expect them to check that. Having lived in the UK for a few years, I couldn't help but get the impression that the point in this discussion is that "I have the right to hide who I am from anyone" - I just don't see that as a legitimate concern. The government and its agencies are not a privately owned supermarket who doesn't need to know who I am to accept me as a customer...
Perhaps the Government ID cards will match nicely with the government's 2.5 million video survelliance cameras.
Of course, if these sorts of measures really worked, there wouldn't be a lunatic sucessfully breaking into Buckingham palace every six months or so.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
how can he be such a hypocrite?! National ID cards will track all your purchases and sell your information to third parties without your consent!
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Most supermarket cards don't require a card -- only that you enter in a phone number.
Is there a common phone number we can all use? For example, (212) 212-2121
Let's make one up.
Your grocery discount card is only safe in the right hands! Just imagine what they'd do if they found your National ID card.
I reluctantly applied for one a few years ago, since the discounts meant I'd save over $100/year. In reality, I was off by a factor of two, saving close to $200/yr. off of the store's artificially inflated prices.
There are actually two types of discount cards: the first requires a real name and address and proof of identity. This one affords the user check cashing privileges. Since I do my banking business at an actual bank, I opted for the second, which doesn't require a real identity. Being a properly paranoid Slashbot who doesn't want The Powers That Be to track my aluminum foil purchasing habits (for the hats, you see), I gave my name as John Doe, 1234 Main St., Anytown, USA.
I'd been using the card for over five years before I realized that the cashier sees your name come up on her terminal when you use the card. About a month ago, the cashier asked me if my name was really "John Doe".
"Yeah, and it's a real bitch when I check into a hotel," I replied.
About a year after I got the card, the supermarket (Stop and Shop in Massachusetts) launched a web site that integrated your purchasing data. You'd log in by entering the serial number on the card and get a history of your purchases and discounts, along with "healthy" alternatives (which was pretty brain dead, offering mayonnaise as a "healthy" alternative to mustard).
The beauty part was that after you logged in you were presented with the option of password protecting your data. However, that meant that anyone who hadn't logged in had their purchase data unprotected (albeit with no identity attached). I tested this by entering numbers at random and viewing the purchase histories of random strangers ("Grape soda and rice cakes? What were you thinking?" "Oooh! KY Warming Jelly! Party on, dude!"). I was tempted to enter passwords for some of these but I didn't.
The store pulled the web site after a couple of weeks, citing "security concerns".
Gotta go. I have a craving for grape soda and rice cakes.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
It's because of the cards that I haven't stepped foot in a Kroger store for a few years now.
The difference between using the card and not using the card can be anywhere from 25% - 40% depending on what's on sale, and how badly I need it.
Glad I live in a country that has laws that.. um.. make sense and.. awww, crap.
...and bonus airmiles if you show your card when paying your income taxes.
I am literally 3000 tokens away from the chaotic crossbow --Stephen
I trust everyone has signed up for their anonymous Safeway shopping card. Two years and running.
The difference between a supermarket loyalty card and a National ID card is this.
You can lie about the info on the supermarket loyalty card, by putting a fake phone number, address, whatever, no big deal, and I don't think the supermarket will mind. I think the main purpose of those membership cards is so they know how much stuff someone buys, when, etc., etc., giving them the demographic info so they can better stock stuff and whatnot.
Right now we have State ID Cards (whether simply identification or drivers' licenses). Even if we did go to National ID Cards, they may not be any different. Let me say this. Under NO circumstances implant those RFID microchips. Cause there's too much fear over the issue of GPS tracking and such. By the way, I think we should just leave it up to the state level. Let us have an United States of American with each state creating their own laws and such, under our federal documents that have worked for us for so long.
Income Tax, now 25% off with the Loyalty Card!
I have a big family, and food is a major monthly bill. If I can save 100-200 dollars a month by using a store card, guess what, I will.
I'm one of those "Evil" customers, I value shop. I buy on sale, buy the 2 for 1 sales, and never by name brands, unless its in bulk. Costco gives you money back on the excutive account, more than the cost of the account, so its worth it to shop there for bulk items.
I was in a little discussion about shopping with a co-worker, after a few minutes here is what we he said about shopping and my answers.
* Shopping all over takes time.
I shop at 3 stores, Costco for most stuff, Safeway and the local corner market. The corner market always sell milk for 1.99 the local markets dont. Costco has 2 for 3.50, but longer lines, so during the week, the basics are the local stores and the quicky market.
I found our markets in best prices in prices as Costco, Safeway, Albertsons, QFC and Fred Myers tie. This is my local area, in other areas I noticed Albertsons and Fredmyers are cheaper. So it depends on where you live. The area is has lots of Safeway generic product producers, (Dairygold, etc), so icecream is cheaper.
Safeway comes out ahead with sales alone, but if you use the membershipcard you 10-20% if you shop right. 2 for 1 prices, and discount's are amazing.
* Brand names over generics
This is tricky, on sale items most are brand names. But normally, stuff like bagged cereal are much cheaper, and with a club card even less. 2 for 3.50, 16 ounce bags is better than a 24 ounce box for 4 bux. And if they have the 32 ounce bags for 3.99 thats even better.
Store brands are also very high quality, you buy store meat/milk/wheat/product products, why not store boxed goods?
I dont see the reason for people to give up 10-20% savings because they wont use a club card, and then complain about privacy then still rent videos at blockbuster, have multiple accounts with other merchants.
Would you give up 20% of your pay to feel secure, but not be secure? National ID's are like this, its just a false sense of security. The 9-11 terrorists had real ID's. They didnt fake a thing.
People ask me why I refuse to get one of these grocery store cards. I always first try to explain the privacy implications. That usually falls on deaf ears. However, I find that those ears open up when I tell them, "They aren't handing out those 'discount' cards because they LOSE money off of them." Thoughtful expressions ensue.
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
HEALTH INSURANCE AGENT: "Sorry Mr. Smith, but we see by your grocery store records that you buy lots of ice cream, cheese, and Twinkies. You are too great a risk. We are canceling your health insurance."
AUTO INSURANCE AGENT: "Sorry Mr. Smith, but we see by your grocery store records that you buy lots of beer and wine. You are too great a risk of being a drunk driver. We are canceling your auto insurance."
PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: "So, Mr. Smith, according to your grocery store records, you purchased a case of beer six hours before the car accident. Isn't it true you were driving while intoxicated?"
RENTAL CAR AGENT:
CREDIT BUREAU AGENT:
DRIVER'S LICENSE AGENT:
CURRENT EMPLOYER:
POTENTIAL EMPLOYER:
FBI AGENT:
RIAA AGENT:
And so it goes, and so it goes on...
"Don't blame the log for the fire." --Andrew Ratshin
at Cal Poly Pomona, we used to use the campus switch board number as the phone number for a card that one of us started. that way whoever you were, you'd just use that to get the discount (because sometimes it was nutty the discouts you get...$14, with your Ralph's card, only $7.99!).
I can see the guy compiling the stats:
"Wow, this guy drinks a lot"
JediLuke
-Do or Do Not, There is no Try
I've been using a Safeway card that I found in the parking lot, at a Safeway in another state, 4 or 5 years ago.
The thing that annoys me about Safeway is, the checker says your name out loud "Thank you mister fishbowl", and I really hate that. Of course they say "thank you mister "
instad. I don't know if that's more or less annoying, but I sure as hell am not going to sign up for a card in my own name, knowing that they do this. I'm going to be buying condoms or feminine hygiene products or something for a rash, I kinda don't want the checker to say a goddamned thing to me, much less announce me by name to everybody else in line.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
I recall the "bible freaks" in the city I live in standing on the street corner telling people not to get the computer chip installed in their hand or head, because that was the mark of the Devil. This was years ago, before the idea of putting computer chips in people was really plausible, so we used to laugh at them. Guess what...
Like most slashdotters, I gave fake information when signing up for my supermarket loyalty card. But I started thinking how many other places I signed up for things with my real info - especially places that required an ID, for example: The Hollywood Video account I just opened. Is it illegal to present a fake ID in such a situation?
"What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
"Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
Your library gets ripped off $80 (which is about right) because you left their books out in the car, yet somehow it's an infringement of your rights to be required to pay for what you deprived them of before you'll be allowed to borrow more of their stuff? Libraries are underfunded as it is; why should they be forced to eat the cost of *you* choosing to leave their books in the car?
The loyalty card accomplishes a few things for the store besides tracking what and when you purchase certain items.
Most importantly, it allows a two-tiered pricing system. If you are the type of person to try to get every item at its very cheapest price, and won't buy it otherwise, a loyalty card will designate you as a price-conscious(sp?) shopper, and allow you to purchase items at the lowest price, while still enabling the store to make high-margins on those folks who don't have the cards.
Not quite as important is the actual loyalty factor. Having a Ralph's card doesn't prevent you from shopping at Albertson's or Food Lion, but it will (hopefully, in their eyes,) encourage you to check out the Ralph's ads, and allow Ralph's to run promotions based on a cumulative total purchase amount. Of course, if you have both a Ralph's and Albertson's card, that puts Food Lion at a disadvantage, and then the price-conscious shopper will go with the better deal between Albertson's and Ralph's.
Competent Marketing professionals in the grocery industry could probably come up with even more uses that don't require individual purchase tracking.
the big value to the stores are knowing what items are bought together and what the primary items are versus the secondary, ie. what you go to the store for (regular items) vs. what you happen to pick up there (irregular).
they pool all this information and while it may be interesting for them to have your actual name and address for correlational (sp?) purposes (think property records for example), it's far more valuable for them to know what items are sold together than anything else. (There was a Wal-Mart article on this a few days ago in the NYT)
As far as privacy, honestly, I don't get what the big deal is? Actually now that I think about it, I don't get what the big deal about any of the privacy is really. I understand search/seizure and such fun things, but I don't really understand supermarket check out privacy? Don't use the card. Don't use a credit card. Don't go to the store.
It seems to me people have an unrealistic expectation of privacy, like the article earlier about laws for cell phone cameras. If you go out in public dressed in such a way that you don't want to be photographed, then you should think about how you dress. In that case, I would say the problem is excessive modesty just as much as intrusion of privacy.
In the supermarket case, I would say don't use the card or don't go to the store. There are lots of mom and pop stores around. Oh but they're more expensive? Part of the reason the supermarkets can offer such cheap prices is that they are fine tuning their supply chain with active customer data. The closer they can match supply to demand, the more efficient they run, the less $ is wasted the the more savings they can pass on (which is 1/2 the point, the other 1/2 is increased profits, but hey, 1/2 is better than none).
In any event, the only person you really have to protect yourself from is the Corporation of the US/UK government as a supermarket isn't going to use your data to imprison you (at least not yet, there may come a day when all serial killers cards are seen buying copius amounts of spam, hot sauce and jaggermiester...).
Until they, take the savings or do what my old roommates and I do. 9 of us still all use the same card... as a phone number... ensuring the safeway computer is seeing both genders buying products across the board from cheap store brand to expensive organics across four states... if they're coders worth his weight in salt, there has to be some kind of a proximity filter... only three of us live within three blocks.
Ha safeway... all your savings are belong to us; in soviet russia, safeway card discounts you; and I for one welcome our new confusing food store shopper overlords.
I r00t3d the frozen food section and i p0wnz all the waffles; where's your firewall now bitch?
nuckcl@yahoo.com
Whenever I go grocery shopping at Genuardi's or Acme, when I get to the checkout and the clerk asks if I have my super-fantastic discount card, I pat my pockets, give my wallet a cursory once over, and check my key ring, then shrug sheepishly and tell them I must've left it at home. At this point the clerk just runs her own. Granted, I go to the lines with the cutest chicks and say it with a great deal of charm...
Founder, Americans Allied Against Alliteration
So your Kroger card doesn't have your name associated with it. Big deal! You're still the one swiping it every time you buy groceries, so they can still track your buying patterns. For Kroger, the net effect is the same as if you had a "non-blank" card.
Why is it that everybody thinks the most evil thing about loyalty cards is that they can match your buying habits with your name? You think they really CARE what your name is?
Breakfast served all day!
If you do some investigating you find that in many cases, the card isn't saving you money, it's just keeping you from getting ripped off. What's the difference you ask?
Ok well if a store has too much of something in inventory and needs to get rid of it, or if they want to offer a loss leader (an item they sell at a loss to entice you to come in and buy stuff), but only to card members, that's you saving money. They are offering a discount over what the normal price is for an item.
However if they take an item that they get plenty of sales on, jack the price and then offer the old price as the card member price, then you are just not getting ripped off. They don't need to charge the higher price normally, they just jack it up to make you feel like you are getting a discount.
Many items fall in this cateogry. Where I often shop, meat is ALWAYS on sale with the discount card. Always. Well look, I know how it goes with meat sales. They do a lot of it, it's fairly predictable, and they prep it fresh in the deli every day. They are not alwys overstocked on meat, and the price is not low enough to be a loss leader.
That's the problem people have with these. When Albertsons switched to a card, I didn't notice things get cheaper on a whole. Seems like the regular prices just slid up over time and the "discount" prices.
This is why people hate them. If they really did nothing but offer lower than normal prices, I'd say good for them. However it's usually just a scam to make you feel like you are saving money.
The problem with the proposed ID card is that it will be a smart card, with biometric information on it, as well as other information about me. About the only person who *won't* have access to that information is *me*. I'm not entirely happy about that.
Not with all the supermarket cards that I've seen in the UK. Instead of giving you the "discount" at the time of purchase, they mail you vouchers---so you can't get the discounts unless you give them a real address.
When I got my last two supermarket loyalty cards from Albertsons and Safeway, neither of them asked me for any personal info. The cashier just scanned the card and said, "here you go." When I went to another store, I actually turned in a form, but the clerk never even looked to see whether I had filled it out completely.
And I got my discounts, and everyone was happy.
He criticises the data protection arrangements for the loyalty cards whilst simultaneously (hypocritically?) promoting his own national ID card scheme, which is exempt from the Data Protection Act 1998.
I mean, you'd have to be blind not to see that wouldn't you?
What are you listening to? (http://megamanic.blogetery.com/)
I often use my old phone number from 2 moves and 3 years ago. When I first started doing this, I was being completely honest. That was the phone number I had when I got the card. Then I noticed the name on the receipt was not my own.
For a ubiquitous chain like Safeway, you could probably get away with using numbers from the phone book. Most residential numbers are going in their database.
"it is important that we do not pretend that an entitlement card would be an overwhelming factor in combating international terrorism" - David Blunkett 3 July 2002.
-- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz
Sainsbury's don't - they give you money off at the checkout.
Asda - Do they have such a scheme?
Somerfields - The card gives you discounts at the checkout.
Morrisons - No idea.
The difference between using the card and not using the card can be anywhere from 25% - 40% depending on what's on sale
Where's that? I only know of one UK supermarket which does that (Somerfield), and they only do it on a small number of items at any one time.
Thank you. I really needed to see a man get humped by a pig. Can a mod please get rid of that link after he gets slashdotted?
The pig-sex link is in another comment. It's not in the main story. You replied to the main story, not that comment. Mods don't get to edit comments. Editors don't either.
I've got a big family. Food is a pretty big expense. Those cards save me a lot, so I use them.
Get a big freezer and some storage. Doing this has saved my family a *lot* of money over the years. We hit the sales hard at each store. The extra storage means we don't often run low on items and can wait for the sales.
I'm sure they just love my profile because it shows 90 percent or better deep discount items.
For the quickies, like milk and such, we also use the mom 'n pop stores. Their price is generally a bit higher, but they do know my name when I walk in. To me, that's worth a lot.
Blogging because I can...
'Blind Man' Blunkett comes from the authoritarian school of do as I say not do as I do. Hence his cards are far better than any (optional) loyalty card. Even if you point out to him that you can get loyalty cards in Holland for buying dope (buy 9 bags, get one free) - which seems a far better use of id cards than Blunkett has in mind, he'll still tell you, "You are wrong, that is illegal, do as I say."
I would have no objection to using ID cards if the privacy laws in the UK were as strong as in, say, Germany. It would have made the nightmare of opening a UK bank account disappear. As it is, I had to provide proof of a paid utility bill (in my name), which required getting an apartment which required references and (usually) proof of a bank account...
But with BMB cracking the whip, you can be absolutely certain that national ID cards will be used to track far more than just proof of identity. The UK is the most secretive country in the Western world. Be afraid if this proposal (for which you pay 5 times as much as in Germany, Switzerland etc.) happens. Be very afraid.
Did he inhale?
David Blunkett is a danger to British society, and one of the biggest political failures that Britain has ever produced. Personally IMHO i belive that the British national ID Card idea is in breach of the human rights act 8.1 Human Rights Act 1998 ARTICLE 8 RIGHT TO RESPECT FOR PRIVATE AND FAMILY LIFE 1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence. Repect my Human Rights to a private-ish life, but all we get from the blind governments is, respect are authority! Personally i hope he/they take it all the way and cause a civil uprising, we could do with one.
The Co-op one is like that. But check out the Safeway one. I think it's points based, and you can ask them to give you a discount then and there. It's all academic to me though, since I don't do the shopping any more (the joys of the parental home)
catch (HumourFailureException e) { e.user.send("You, sir, are a humourless idiot."); }
Since the people I hand the apps to don't seem to care that my name is George Walker Bush and that I live at 1600 Pennslyvania ave in Washington DC. That, my friends, is the difference between a loyalty card and a National ID card.
Vote Quimby!
Used a fictitious name for mine. Do not use checks of charge/credit card at the store, cash only. They don't have a clue who they're dealing with. We've some two dozen people around the SE USA using the same fictitious name, so even if we were to use credit cards, the store would have a difficult time figuring out what's going on. You can begin to mess with their database by doing things such as borrowing a friends card and using your credit card. DisInformation is wonderful.
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
Two years ago they had this great idea at Extreme Computing where the users were encouraged to swap their loyalty cards:
where you can swap your loyalty card with someone else's (cash in the points first if you must), and take on the brand new demographic profile of a complete stranger. Imagine the data- processors' bafflement when a healthy-eating family of 4 suddenly turns into a single 33-year-old male who consumes nothing but satsumas and ready meals.
Read more about it here. It was a cool idea, I wonder why more people don't do this ?
Anyways, as far as National IDs go, you can read more about it here and show your support by getting one of the t-shirts.
Mr Blunkett said the ID card plan added little costs to what was already being done in creating a database for passports holding biometric details such as iris scans and fingerprints.
Such a database would prevent people travelling to America having to pay $100 on every visit for a biometric visa, he suggested.
So... Blunkett's argument for introducing a national ID card which drastically improves the government's tools for invading the privacy of its citizens is that it will save you money when visiting the U.S.A. - a country that is already in the process of invading its citizens' privacy far more effectively than Blunkett's little scheme would.
What that boils down to is "Give up most of your privacy, so you can go visit a country which demands that you give up all of your privacy."
I've got a better idea: forget the ID cards, and forget visiting the U.S.A. - go someplace sane and free, instead.
- Peter Ravn Rasmussen
But the problem is, when store brands get popular the prices increase, and to make them more attractive, the prices of brand named goods is brought up, and eventually the store brand ends up usurping the brand name product which becomes a premium item.
You've never bought beer in England, have you? It's ever so easy to get it with no ID, as long as you look more than about 14. Any we don't have to carry a driver's licence when driving, either. Oh, and there is no "customs" to pass through in Europe. And most other European counties have dropped the passport checks too.
Okay. How hard is it for government forces to get hold of the footage shot by privately owned cameras? Contrast this by the ease with which a private citizen can get hold of footage from a government owned survillence camera.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
He made a good point.
Store cards are subject to the Data Protection Act; Blunkettcards will run a coach and horses through the protection - so much so they'll probably have to amend the DPA (and not in our favour).
Apart from being card-shaped and having my name on them there is nothing in common between the two. Blinky is now trying the soft-sell; after scaring us silly with the threat that unless we have ID cards we'll all be blown up by terrorists; he's now trying the line that they aren't so very different from the cards we have in our wallet. When they are.
And expect copious repetitions of 'those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.', which as any five-year old can tell you is disproved by 'doesn't that rather depend on who's asking the questions?'
This is all going to be rammed through Parliament in time for a May General Election (which is only needed so they can get it out of the way before announcing tax increases). The government will call for all parties to come together to fight the menace of [insert suitable scare here].
Any party who objects to ID cards, or tries to drag it out in committee will be called 'soft on crime'. Which is the last thing they want before an election now that the tabloids and the Home Secretary have made everyone petrified of a largely imaginary crime wave.
Meanwhile the government will be whipping its own backbenchers and telling them 'don't rock the boat - remember there's a historic third term up for grabs'. They'll get it through the Commons on a massive majority and then bully the Lords into compliance.
If the Lords object, well last night showed that the government will use the Parliament Act 1949 for pretty much any purpose.
The only way to stop this madness (apart from hoping the same people who programmed the Child Support Agency computers are doing ID cards) is for people in Labour constituencies to contact their MP and say that their vote is conditional on the MP opposing the ID card legislation.
Best wishes,
Mike.
This is what I do. They think I am Paul R*, a coworker. He was bitching about the card system, and tracking, so I said "so, lets swap cards. That way they'll think you are me, and Im you."
:)
Funny though, I had previously swapped cards.
Now Paul is a woman.
no
The thing that annoys me about Safeway is, the checker says your name out loud "Thank you mister fishbowl", and I really hate that.
You're damn right. What I really don't like about it is that they're trying to put on this appearance that they know you, that it's your friendly neighborhood mom and pop grocery store where everyone knows you. And that phoniness completely overshadows the genuine personal relationships with, for example, the super-helpful produce guy who doesn't know my name but does know that I like fresh salad greens and always offers to get me some nice ones from the back if the greens on display look tired. My name isn't all that difficult to pronounce, but it's unusual, and after five or so years of Safeway checkers (most of whom know my face) furrowing their brow just prior to killing my name yet again, I've pretty much had it with that stupid policy.
Whole Foods does it much better. They provide nice produce and other products, and they seem to treat their workers well enough that everyone there is generally smiling and helpful. The folks there don't necessarily know my name (though some do because they've asked me and made an effort to remember), but even if they've never seen me before they generally treat me like they value my business. For that kind of service, I'll happily pay a premium.
What Safeway management doesn't seem to get is that reading my name off the receipt just as I'm leaving isn't nearly enough to create a personal relationship, and if there is a personal relationship, there's no need to read my name off the receipt.
Oh, and Whole Foods doesn't pester me with a frequent shopper discount card. I like that.
The tracking of buying habits anonymously benefits *everyone*.
- There are no privacy risks for the consumer
- The company finds out what people like to buy and when they buy it
- The company will then use this data to a) stock more of said product when it is likely to be sold, and b) Have sales on said product at that time to entice people into the store in the hopes they will buy other items.
So, the net effect is you get more of what you want, when you want it, at cheaper prices, and less of "oh, sorry, we're out of that item and there are no rainchecks" or "sorry, that sale ended yesterday".
Its how capitalism works.
I won't have a national ID card until I get points for using it.
You don't need a lab to make mud.
There once was a man, whose name 'Blunkett.'
Caused a limerick-composition junket
But feeding the troll,
however droll,
Is the norm on Slashdot - who'dathunkit?
The issue is really this, when I interact with you how do I know it is you. The implications arereally about responsibility when things go wrong. ie I am have a conflict with whom?
The whole issue is a matter of trust. Our modern society, bless it, is falling apart because we want to rely on a tangeable token representing you rather than you - the question being: can a third party vouch for you? and of course the state wants to be the third party.
Really, the issue is the slow breakdown of the fabric of society in that we do not assume that we can trust each other more.
Breakdown of community and trust = intervention of government (taking responsibility) - and we know where that takes us don't we?
(apart from hoping the same people who programmed the Child Support Agency computers are doing ID cards)
I think the government has proven time and time again that it simply cannot do large computer systems. Or even small computer systems.
Child support agency: failed.
Passport agency: failed
National Health Service: failed
Firearms register (A pitifully small database in this country!): failed
Given the history of failure of large and small computer systems commisioned by the government, I have every expectation that they will be completely unable to build the National Identity Register (NIR) for ID cards.
A latent existence
Now everytime a terrorists stops by their neighborhood quikee-mart for bread and milk we will know. Wow, that will save so much money in bombs.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
In the UK you need a TV license to watch the advert-free BBC channels. My flatmate bought a digital set-top TV receiver and they wouldn't sell it to him unless he supplied his address.
Later we started getting demands for TV license payments even though we already have one. He only bought it as a gift for his parents.
What right has the store (COMET) got to send this info off to the BBC? Bunch of cnuts.
It's impossible to debate the complex privacy issues raised by the various kinds of identity scheme when the Government has so far utterly failed to produce one single good idea for this highly expensive white elephant. Four questions first: * What is it for? * How will it achieve these aims? * Is it cost effective? * How will we measure it's success or failure? If we get some answers to these, we might be able to have an intelligent debate about the scheme, rather than knee-jerk reactions to imagined threats coming from both sides of the "debate". And frankly, I am suspicious. As another post has pointed out, the Government can't, or won't, answer these basic questions. Would you run any other large scale IT project without answers to those questions?
its probably already mentioned, but here is an idea. Use fake info. make their database worthless. I memorized several different aliases I use for such cards, so that my name is rusty shackleford according to kroger, and Michael Leroi, the french chef according to publix. works a treat!
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
To a slight extent, it doesn't really matter anyway.
There's no security or oversight worth a damn in any of these databases - they are a mess of GIGO and will stay that way once id cards exist.
I'm registered to VOTE in a false name, ffs. Thus, I will probably end up with three identity cards.
One in my real name, one in my false and, given what comes through my door, a couple for the previous people who lived here and skipped the country when their debts caught up with them - but are still registered to vote from here.
Lucky I'm basically honest, really.
I don't know where you are, but in the UK if you give false information in order to convince somebody to sell you an item or give you a service they would not otherwise give you under the same terms, this is a crime called "obtaining goods/services by deception".
I would imagine similar laws exist in other countries.
IANAL, etc.
You'll probably also be able to purchase gift coupons for that same prize package. --Under the table, of course.
-FL
Since its not a ' restricted club' and open to the public, you can just demand you get the discount.
It may take arguing with the manager for a bit, but they have to give in.
Though, personally i have the card, with Mickey Mouse as the name.. i normally dont have the time to argue with them over the discount ( actually its just a scam and the real price is inflated, but they call it a discount as most people dont understand )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The UK pressure group NO2ID have set up an online petition to be delivered to the Government. UK residents who oppose compulsory ID cards should consider signing it (it closes tomorrow, by the way!).
Those who don't oppose ID cards should read some of the Register's excellent coverage of the issue and be very afraid.
And what was the result of that hushed up DNA test?
Labour are less up front than most terrorists.
I know Publix has always said they will not issue a card. I have even seen some ads they've done mocking the other stores that do, it says something like:
We don't need a loyalty card to reward select shoppers. We offer all our customers the same low prices and excellent service.
or something like that... I know when I first read it, it said to me...we're not profiling you like other stores.
David Blunkett has blatantly lied to us many times in the past, his record of public service is more than dismal, and his background is dubious and murky. Most people want him to resign and he has been asked to resign numerous times and he still refuses. I hope his successor will be better and finally abandons Blunkett's creepy ideas.
I probably read this on Slashdot, or somewhere else, but it's funny to watch the public get in an uproar over privacy.
John Q: This is an outrage, I demand my right to privacy!
Pitch: Sir would you like to win a free toaster?
John Q: Wow! free toaster, where do I sign up?
I can see where this is going! The National Loyalty ID Card(TM) on a horizon near you.
*tinfoil hat cocked at a jaunty angle.
"Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
Whereas, stores using membership cards can use their sales data to determine the optimimum HIGH price for every product, the price point that is most profitable before a majority of people stop buying. I watched this happen with french bread. A fresh loaf was 80 cents when membership cards entered. A year later the loaves were $1.49 while Winco was selling fresh loaves 69 cents at both times. (This was a few years ago.) I won't be a stooge and contribute to my own lynching.
use a debit card or credit card once, and they'll have your alias.. and you...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
Don't just hangup on corporate surveys or decline that grocery shopping card. Make up crazy answers to surveys and share your shopping-card number with all your friends! Management will make bad decisions based on bad data which will result in revenue loss. If they're losing money, they'll change their behavior (in fact, that's the only motivator in the Corporate States of America).
I used to work for one of these chains. I also used the card data. Overall I think that people give the supermarkets involved more credit for data savvy then they deserve. I used the data to look at spend rates aggragated over block groups, marketing used it mainly to sens out flyers. If there was any sophisticated data analysis going on it was happening at the data wearhouse that ran the card progaram and owned the data (we had to buy this data from them if we actually wanted to use it). This does mean that they have NO access to the payment stream and that a linkage would be highly unlikely to impossible.
As long as we are comfortable with the fact that if somebody in the right office wants to pull up our file, they can know EVERYTHING about us on a whim. --This does not just include what we do and when we do it, but all the clever things which can be learned from that data. --Psyche profiles and all the most likely reactions a person will have to any given stimulus at any given time. --Or if the person is the sort who is likely to resist the control system by using one card among nine different people.
It's about fear and control. 'They' are scared of losing control, and so always seek more and more. 'They' want people neatly labeled in their individual boxes, doing exactly what they want us to be doing.
If we never find being labeled or being put in boxes offensive, then we are probably never going to be considered a threat, which should make life easy. --Except it doesn't work that way. Once we have been put in boxes, how do they know we will stay there? What if we wake up one day and decide that we don't like our boxes? This is a fearful thought, which makes the controllers want to apply even more control. The target and memories of what was once normal are always in motion. Fear is never satisfied; when one is pre-disposed to fearing being on the 'wrong' side of the line, then it no longer matters how far the line is moved, the line itself remains and there is always a 'wrong' side which drives the desire for even more control.
'Living' for the average human has become increasingly doing only pre-approved things, thinking only pre-approved thoughts, and generally staying within the pre-set boundaries created by our masters. The world isn't the way it is through random chance. --Just because we were born into slavery doesn't make it natural or okay. There is so much more out there! --But ignorance is bliss. Amazingly, most people are content to flush away all their health and youth into stupid jobs, working too many hours a day, calling 'entertainment' the mind-numbing pap which is most film, television and popular video games.
--And when management decides it's time for us to lose our jobs and seek out of default and desperation positions with the military (carrying rifles through the desert), most of us think, "Oh well. I guess that's just how it is". We unwittingly participate in hundreds of social engineering stress-tests delivered via media, food, medicines and artificially generated sickness. --Much of the misery in our lives has been artificially generated for one reason or another.
Among those who know, there is a subject which is called, "The Topic of Topics". or "The Predator". There are those who 'eat' human misery, who don't want us to look at the UFO's. --There is such thing as spiritual energy, and like any energy, it can bled off and used to feed other things. But these are not thoughts cattle are supposed to have. So we must stay in our boxes, watch our televisions and not talk too much.
How much personal debt do people currently have? How often do they get sick? How much do we really think for ourselves? When was the last time anybody was in a satisfying relationship? How much of You is really You?
For control measures and artificial stimuli to be administered, the system also requires numerous methods of monitoring and gathering information during and after the fact. Information cards which people willingly carry around are just one small, small facet of the whole system. --And I suspect that on the most important levels, these particular facets are more about molding perceptions and training certain thought patterns than they are about actually watching people. About making people think, "What's the big deal about privacy anyway?"
-FL
As long as we are comfortable with the fact that if somebody in the right office wants to pull up our file, they can know EVERYTHING about us on a whim. --This does not just include what we do and when we do it, but all the clever things which can be learned from that data. --Psyche profiles and all the most likely reactions a person will have to any given stimulus at any given time. --Or if the person is the sort who is likely to resist the control system by using one card among nine different people.
It's about fear and control. 'They' are scared of losing control, and so always seek more and more. 'They' want people neatly labeled in their individual boxes, doing exactly what they want us to be doing.
If we never find being labeled or being put in boxes offensive, then we are probably never going to be considered a threat, which should make life easy. --Except it doesn't work that way. Once we have been put in boxes, how do they know we will stay there? What if we wake up one day and decide that we don't like our boxes? This is a fearful thought, which makes the controllers want to apply even more control. The target and memories of what was once normal are always in motion.
The more a person uses a certain set of thoughts and behavior templates, the more 'burned in' the synaptic pathways become. This is how the brain works, and this is how habits are formed. Fear is habitual, and thus cannot ever be satisfied; when one is pre-disposed to fearing being on the 'wrong' side of the line, then it does not matter how far the line is moved, the line itself remains and there is always a 'wrong' side. This drives the desire for ever increasing amounts of control.
'Living' for the average human has become increasingly doing only pre-approved things, thinking only pre-approved thoughts, and generally staying within the pre-set boundaries created by our masters. The world isn't the way it is through random chance. --Just because we were born into slavery doesn't make it natural or okay. There is so much more out there! --But ignorance is bliss. Amazingly, most people are content to flush away all their health and youth and energy into stupid jobs, working too many hours a day, calling 'entertainment' the mind-numbing pap which is most film, television and popular distraction.
--And when management decides it's time for us to lose our jobs and seek out of default and desperation positions with the military (carrying rifles through the desert), most of us think, "Oh well. I guess that's just how it is". We unwittingly participate in hundreds of social engineering stress-tests delivered via media, food, medicines and artificially generated sickness and artificially generated war. --Indeed, much of the misery in our lives has been deliberately fabricated.
Among those who know, there is a subject which is called, "The Topic of Topics", or "The Predator". There are those who 'eat' human misery, who don't want us to look at the UFO's. --There is such thing as spiritual energy, and like any energy, it can bled off and used to feed other things. But these are not thoughts cattle are supposed to have. So we must stay in our boxes, watch our televisions and not talk too much.
How much personal debt do people currently have? How often do they get sick? How much do we really think for ourselves? When was the last time anybody was in a satisfying relationship? How much of You is really You and not some behavioral subroutine we saw on 'Friends' or 'Survivor'?
For control measures and artificial stimuli to be administered, the system also requires numerous methods of monitoring and gatheri
These days my photo ID is checked only once at the airport- usually just before TSA xray search. I can get a boarding pass and check-luggage automatically using the magnetized name strip on a standard credit card.
I can't lay my hands on the exact money laundering regs at the moment but there is an approved list of IDs one to prove who you are and one to prove where you live.
The thing to remember is that bank staff often don't know what is acceptable and what is not. For both proof of ID and Address a letter from a responsible person (Dr, vicar, lawyer) is ok. If a bank gives you a hard time refer them to the FSA Handbook ML3.1.5/6 (see the link above).
Money laundering regs are a pain in the bum but they are a required part of any finacial organisation in the UK.
Ian (who's a credit union director who failed his money laundering test the first time).
they made the jews wear them..
Me too. The local incarnation of Krogers where I live is King Soopers. They are the WORST about the cards. Prices without them are astronomical, and they rarely will punch in an override code. I think the clerks actually are embarrassed by the prices without the card sometimes. I had one give me a card without filling any info out - not sure if it would actually work or not, haven't ever tried it.
The real kicker is that the independant grocery store that was a block from my house sold out to Walgreens (who are attempting to take over the world) and Kings is the next closest place to my house. The only other store I know of in town that doesn't use 'loyalty cards' is a tiny little mom&pop place that doesn't quite have the selection I'm looking for.
Normally I go to one of the Safeway stores in town. With Safeway's cards you can use your phone number for the discount - I just put in my Parent's number. I'm sure this screws up all of the demographic information. There are at least 3, maybe 4, families buying groceries and gasoline on this one card. The department of Homeland Security will probably show up one of these days at my parents house because they have obviously been feeding an army, or something...
Find coupons in Greeley
>
> Blunkett's an arsehole.
Then you apply the haiku rules; stylistically, you're supposed to refer to the environment, or a season, or something like that, and there's supposed to be some sort of internal contrast or conflict going on.
I came up with the following internal monologue, in haiku form:
Blunkett's an arsehole.
My slashdot poetry sucks.
Fuck you, it's winter.
Having everything on one card makes it easier to forge an identity. It also creates a ready market in forged cards, or at least ones that have been incorrectly issued.
You may have a lot of trust in your government but most British (and Americans) do not. They do not mind giving pieces of information to lots of different organisations but we do resent having it concentrated in one place. We also have a suspicion that once a card is introduced, a carry law will follow and the accompanying right of authority to demand the card at any time.
The point isn't that discounts are bad. The point is that making you get one of these cards to get those discounts can be problematic. Before the advent of these cards, they just offered the discounts to everyone. Because that's what discounts are for, to get you to come to the store and shop.
Beautyon, you were doing okay until this post. Your previous post came across as a good rant - the image you successfully put in my mind was that of a middle aged hippy raging against the system, "don't let them fool you, man!" who's taking it all a bit too seriously. The scene was set for a good old flamewar.
Unfortunately, you successfully avoided all the points that the poster asked of you, and kicked it off with "You are as thick as shit" (ad hominem attack, how crass), then started in with the CAPITAL LETTERS, beloved of teenagers and AOL users everywhere. Suddenly the image of a hippie sprouted troll-like horns.
And then you made reference to the Holocaust - the small 'pop' you hear is the last of any credibility you may have had suddenly disappearing.
Your scores are:
Style - 8/10
General frothing - 9/10
Keeping up the troll - 2/10 (very poor!)
Overall, not a bad troll for a beginner, but you could (and should) have kept it going for another couple of posts instead of blowing your load all at once. Shame on you!
Dr Fish
For those that match against your name, it's more important to them to have your address as well - so they can send you flyers (some actually aimed towards the stuff you buy, not always a bad thing)
The other use is of course to profile you, so they can target people like you. Again, the parent's card had foiled this as there is no age/gender or other information.
Al this concern over customer loyalty cards, and what do you do? You pay with a credit card! If you value your identity, NEVER use a credit card. Credit cards betray you much more than any loyalty card will. They get your name, etc. They can then tie this in with information from returns or rebates, or warrenty exchanges.
Rule #1: You can only bitch if you only ever pay cash.
Rule #2: Use loyalty cards. The stores are out to get you to spend more. Indirectly, they make themselves more helpful to you by tracking consumer trends. This HELPS YOU.
Rule #3: (If you are so paranoid) Use a fake name and address (but keep it local) Use a made-up address on your street, with a made up name. But keep it in the same zip! They really don't verify the names or addresses. They just want local stats.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
Lets see....
First I have to sell my soul (address) to the company.
1 UK pounds = 2 points....
Can't claim until I have 500 points...
500 points worth £2.50...
(So pay £250, why not say £1 == 1 point????????)
So I need to buy 100 sandwiches £2.50 (yes they ARE that expensive) to get one free.
GREAT OFFER... Buy 100 get 1 free!!!
your real name is linked to the data anyway.
Unless you're using stolen checks and/or credit cards, too?
What the hell does RFID have to do with GPS? You're comparing a short-range-radio barcoding system to a worldwide positioning system. Is this just a standard knee-jerk reaction to a technology you don't understand?
I saw a T-shirt that sums this whole thing up pretty well - it had a quote from Burkett, something along the lines of "No one ever had to fear having a public ID," and a representation of the triangle identification system that the Nazis used.
Says it all, really.
Actually I am a lab rat in an elaborate plot to take over the world.
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=RFID+GPS&num=50& hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr= &as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&a s_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=ima ges
Hey everybody, gather 'round, it's the privacy song!
I don't have no privacy, neither do you.
The government is watching us and WalMart's watching too.
Your doctor keeps your urine, for to clone your DNA.
Those albums that you bought last night, well now they know you're gay.
Interpol's got a file on you, so does the FBI.
McDonald's scans your face and there's a chip in your french fry.
You're scan recorded, sold, and sorted to a database in the sky.
So whatever you do when they're talking to you -
For god's sakes lie.
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
Lie about your income, your age, gender, and race.
Spell your name incorrectly, so it's harder to trace.
We can beat them back with bullshit. We can rub it in their face.
We can stick a big old monkey wrench right up their database.
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
You see now, WalMart thinks I'm a 75 year old pensioner.
And Sony thinks I'm a single mother of ten.
The airline company thinks I make 700 grand a year.
And VISA thinks I'm an Innuit woman named Ben.
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
Lie, Lie, Lie, Lie
You can lie to the man, you can lie right through your tooth.
They can take away our privacy but they can't have the truth.
Lie about your favorite drink,
your viewing habits and the color of your sink.
Make up a phone number, make up a postal code.
If we all lie together then the computer might explode.
So come on everybody, let's beat those privacy invading bastards! Let's beat them with disinformation and organized chaos. Let's crash that computer, let's skew those statistics. Because let's face it, there's only one magical person who knows all our secrets.
And if Santa ever does sell his database, we're all screwed.
Actually, I'm surprised that misuse of a database to stop scientists wasn't submitted to slashdot as a story? (Or am I wrong?)
:)
You are right, they are terrorists
So what? There's 459,000 webpages that contain the terms "RFID" and "GPS". Wonderful.
I had this happen to me when Safeway introduced their card, they were handing them out left and right. Every receipt still welcomes me as 'a new club card member.'
Alternatively you can usually provide a phone number, so next time you buy a pack of condoms, tell them your grandma's or ex's phone number.
Im.
combing rfid and gps
combing? Huh? If you mean "combining", then you would have an ID that would contain a short-range barcode, and could tell you where you're at. If you mean combining RFID with a long-range GPS transponder, what's the point in having a short-range RFID if you're already transmitting your location & a unique ID that way?
Sorry - I neglected to take into account any potential geographic differences...I'm in the US so there could easily be a major discrepancy.
You just gave me an idea - if you really want to screw up the demographics and render the information they collect completely useless (or nearly so), it would be damned funny to set up the means to swap cards with complete strangers. Of course, this would presume that no personally identifying information was used to acquire the card to begin with, but I imagine it's entirely possible.
Of course, this would presume that no personally identifying information was used to acquire the card to begin with, but I imagine it's entirely possible.
Actually I'm not sure it does. I don't know if there is any way a person with a card can get any information other than a name ( My mother's name always comes up for me ).
Should set up a site where people can send in their old or unused cards and a self-addressed envelope. People could periodically switch cards - maybe we can screw up this whole loyalty card thiing.
Find coupons in Greeley
You still get the discount from the card!
Yes Mr Blunkett, that is because unlike you, most supermarkets actually have a spine, and the big fucking keyword here is OPTIONAL loyalty cards. I know that if i sign up for one of these cards and the company screws with me then i can have them. Im not going to put up with the one decent law in this country being fucked around with. The Data Protection Act is one of the most perfect laws i have ever seen, im even happy for the police to have their clause for holding data from you if it would endanger a current investigation, obviously you don't want mr gangster or terrorist to be able to just call up and demand to know if their cell or crime family has been cracked and is under watch (yeah i know that can be abused but he wants to walk right through it). At the moment this law is just brilliant, i can get any information any organisation holds on me, be it the police, my school, the shop that has me on their CCTV tape, or as Mark Thomas put it - the military base who have been writing internal memos about how much of a menacing journalist i am. Blunkett can go fuck himself im not having my law messed with and he's not getting another job in politics.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Your mobile phone number is your unique identifier. Given out to lots of people and you keep it because changing numbers is a *pain*. If anyone really wanted to track you, all they need is the number and access to various companies' records.
Is a verse form hard to extinguish
Once Congress in session
Decreed its suppression
But people got around it by writing the last line without any rhyme or meter
sorry, let me explain better. modifying the RFID chip so it sends out a GPS signal
Yes, Trader Joe's says the same. They also don't ever have things on sale ... it's one price all the time for everyone, AFAIK anyway.
So, let me get this straight... I have to sign up for this card thing to get this price on the capital gains tax?
Seriously... The supermarket doesn verify the names. All my cards belong to people with noexixtent addresses, who live in Beverly Hills, CA.
Just give them phony data. Stores would abondon these schemes if they didn't work. Garbage in, garbage out. Just make sure you're part of the trash.
then there's no point in using a RFID chip whatsoever, you'd just use a GPS transmitter. again, you're confused on what each does.
RFID = Radio Frequency IDentification
Companies don't do market research to raise the price of in demand products, because all it would do is drive the customers away to the store that did not dothe research and therefore have lower prices.
They do it to *lower* the prices on the products during times of demand, via sales, to entice customers into the store, in hopes that along with those products they will buy other ones at full price. It is called "loss leading"
Why do you think in December stores have huge sales on Christmas trees and decorations? It is not because they are *low* in demand, that is for sure.