iPod Shuffle, Mac Mini, iLife '05, iWork

A number of announcements from the Mac World keynote this afternoon. The iPod Shuffle is pack-of-gum sized, no screen, weighs less than an ounce. Ships today, $99 for the half gig, $149 for a gig. The Mac Mini is the headless iMac... 6x6x2.5 with all the expected plugs, starting at $499. Lot's of tiger bits, spotlight, virtual folders in Mail.app. iLife '05 will ship Jan 22. iPhoto gets folders and video support. iMovie supports HD. GarageBand gets 8 channel recording. iWork includes Keynote 2, and 'Pages' the new word processor and ships the same day as iLife.

Comments

goodbye bank account

[rwurth]

wait, cheap Mac, cheap iPod. Nevermind

Re:goodbye bank account

[dourk]

Not really. Instead just one new item draing the account, I can buy them all!

Re:goodbye bank account

[ThousandStars]

What will the Apple trolls carp about now?

Ah yes, that's right. The one mouse button. It is at least getting harder to bash Apple products.

Re:goodbye bank account

[beef curtains]

Yep. In fact, here they are:

http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

Re:goodbye bank account

[sydsavage]

Quote from the Mac Mini webpage:

And yes, Mac mini will take advantage of your two-button USB mouse with scroll-wheel and your favorite USB keyboard. Just plug them in.

Since you supply the mouse and keyboard, they've essentially nipped that perennial argument in the bud.

Re:goodbye bank account

[TheViffer]

Depends ... could be hidden costs. On the specifications page it clearly states the following.

"Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider."

So does that void the warrenty if you crack the case open to swap out say the memory or drives?

Re:goodbye bank account

[stratjakt]

Depends how you define cheap.

You can get a half-gig flash based mp3 player for under 50 bucks.

As for the MacMini, for 499 you get: 1.25ghz G4, 256 megs of PC2700, 40 gig HDD, and a 10/100 ethernet and a 32 meg Radeon 9200.

Compare to This for 349 - oh, this comes with a 17" Flat CRT

Apple is still overpriced, but the Mac Mini is as close as they've ever come to putting it in the "regular folk" price range.

I'm just not in the market for a 2.9 lb mini-box that I can't upgrade or tinker with myself, or I'd consider one.

I really wish there was such a thing as a "barebones" mac, or that they'd open the platform up to third parties. But then, they'd face the same software challenges as MSFT, and their OS would perform about as well.

Re:goodbye bank account

[javaxman]

Nope. No mouse in the box. No keyboard, either.

The box is - get this - smaller than the standard iPod box.

That's what they'll complain about. No mouse sold with the computer. Cheap-ass Apple, expecting me to already have a USB mouse... oh, wait...

Re:goodbye bank account

[sydsavage]

Yep. I was really expecting a satellite radio iPod. Well, that's the last time I get my iRumors from Lindsey Lohan's sister.

Re:goodbye bank account

[b1t r0t]

It shouldn't be any problem. In fact, that's how I got my most recent Mac, a Blue & White G3 for $110. Except in that case, someone would have had to pay me to take that stupid hockey puck of a mouse off their hands.

I like how Apple suggests on their Macmini page that programmers should get one and a KVM switch, and put it on top of their PC.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Abalamahalamatandra]

Somewhat overpriced, but note that the Mini has a Radeon graphics processor and 32 MB of dedicated graphics RAM.

I'll just about guarantee you that the Gateway (by the way, ick!) you linked to has a crappy video processor and shared RAM for graphics.

What I wanna know is, how soon until I can run Linux on this baby and use it for a way-cool MythTV frontend?

Re:goodbye bank account

[caino59]

ok, stop bitchin about it and go get a product that suits your needs!

lol, jk - what would /. be without all the pointless whining?

how's it feel to want?

karma to burn baby, karma to burn.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm.. That Gateway you reference does not come with Firewire, it probably does not come with DVI, and uses Intel's "shared VRAM" graphics set (as opposed to the Radeon 9200 on the iMac mini).

Oh, and it is $349 *after mail-in rebate*.

Also check out the service/support. The Gateway comes with 90 days limited support. The iMac mini comes (like any Macintosh) with 90 days telephone support and is covered for one year.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two reasons that Apple doesn't ship two-button mice - one is simplicity for beginning users, the other is that it forces lazy developers to expose functionality in the UI and NOT just bury it in a contextual menu. Windows drives me batty because features are commonly implemented that way.

Re:goodbye bank account

[ollie_ob]

US prices are normally quoted without VAT, UK prices with VAT. £52.70*1.175= £61.92. £62 vs £70 - Not so lame, especially considering GBP's relative strength at the moment.

Re:goodbye bank account

[catwh0re]

the thing is apple software is not so right mouse button dependent anyway. like in windows you can't do much without accessing the contextual menus, while in mac software it's really been designed around. (i,e programmers had to design a better interface instead of being lazy)

Re:goodbye bank account

[nadadogg]

I know, I've been putting off buying a mac for quite some time, this makes it much harder to just say no.

Re:goodbye bank account

[mindstrm]

A bold move?

OS X has never been limitd to a 1 button mouse. IN fact, every mac user I've seen who uses a mouse uses a typical multi-button optical mouse, or other exotic device. Almost nobody uses the stock 1 button mouse.

The only reason it's even mentioned here is because apple doens't supply peripherals with the mini.

You plug in a two button mouse, and it behaves as you would expect, it's not a "kludge" or anything like that. THis is nothing new, macs haven't been limited to one button mice since along, long time ago.

Re:goodbye bank account

[pyros]

Also, unless they've changed it, Apple applies a blue paste (don't know for sure what it is) to the screws before the final assembly is made

Probably just Locktite, it's used to hold the screws in tight and keep moisture from seeping through the screw-hole. Should be able to buy it anywhere and re-apply.

Re:goodbye bank account

[TrippTDF]

your post makes me think that this would be a great time for Apple to bring back the Switch campaign, as this thing is totally geared towards PC users.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Infamous Coward]

Hidden costs indeed. If you upgrade the Mac mini to 1GB of memory through the Apple store, the additional cost is $425! So that $500 marvel is now $925. And for OS X to really sing, mucho memory is required.

Sadly, the math is starting to break down...

Re:goodbye bank account

[Moofie]

If you'd ever been on a phone call with your grandmother trying to explain the difference between the right and the left mouse button, you'll know...APPLE WAS NOT WRONG.

The one-button mouse is a good default. The fact that they support a richer interface for the people that want one is great.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Snocone]

The fact that I can't carry a few spare AAA batteries

Ahem.

" ... Extend the playback time of your iPod shuffle with the Battery Pack, powered by two AAA batteries..."

Won't work as a plain ole' USB thumb device

Ahem.

"... Store files along with your music ..." ...Closed systems ... gouge me on a replacement battery ... doesn't play OGGs...

Nobody. In. The. Target. Market. Gives. A. Flying. Fuck.

Should I keep going?

Well, you haven't actually started yet, so please.

Re:goodbye bank account

[mjpaci]

Apple used to ship Macs without a keyboard on most machines. It wasn't until either the beige G3s or the iMac that every Mac included a keyboard.

This was, at the time, a point PC users would harp on. Then Apple includes one and people harp about no choice. Now we're back to no keyboard. Let's see.

--Mike

Re:goodbye bank account

[ianpatt]

> Oh yeah, and the fact that, apparantly, you can listen ONLY in shuffle mode - hence the name.

Sorry, no:

"With Play in Order mode, you manage the music. If things take a turn for the predictable, never fear. Turn iPod shuffle over, flip the slider to Shuffle and mix on the go." http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

Re:goodbye bank account

[rekoil]

And at the time, you couldn't use a standard PC keyboard on a Mac thanks to the ADB interface, which I'm sure was a big reason people were screaming about that so loudly. Mac keyboards were much more expensive.

The standardization to USB makes that much less of an issue today than it was back then.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Thundersnatch]

Look at the fine print at the bottom of the iPod Shuffle page:

"Do not eat iPod shuffle.

Nice...

Re:goodbye bank account

[bobllama]

Favorite quote from apple's site - referring to the fact that the shuffle is smaller than a pack of gum.

Do not eat iPod shuffle.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Migrant Programmer]

Trolls indeed.

Closed systems.

Boo hoo.

The fact that I can't carry a few spare AAA batteries.

A battery extender accessory that uses AAA batteries was also released today.

The fact that Apple will gouge me on a replacement battery when it dies (and it will).

Boo hoo. Replace it yourself.

The fact that I'll need to tie the iPod Shuffle's serial number to my PC.

WTF?

The fact that it's firmware likely isn't upgradable.

The firmware of other iPods is upgradeable, and has been upgraded several times by Apple in the past.

It probably doesn't play OGGs.

It probably doesn't play the Adlib file format either. That's about the same amount of impact on its potential user base. Before I forget: boo hoo.

Won't work as a plain ole' USB thumb device.

It sure will. You can specify how much of the space is used for music, and how much is used for other files.


Oh yeah, and the fact that, apparantly, you can listen ONLY in shuffle mode - hence the name.

Apparently you need to get a clue. There's a switch to change between Shuffle mode and Play In Order mode.

Apple's iPod shuffle website

IHBT, and I am having a very nice day, thank you.

Re:goodbye bank account

[kzinti]

Who in their right mind buys memory from an OEM? Don't get on Apple's case about expensive memory, because it's true in the PC world too! Whether it's Dell, Sony, IBM, whoever - you're almost always better off dollarwise to buy your system with the least available memory, then buy the upgrade from someone else. With the exception of the occasional special deal, this has been true for as long as I can remember.

Of course, this begs the question: does the mini allow user upgrades? Can't check because the Apple site isn't responding at the moment, but that little box looks to be shut tighter than a virgin's iPod.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Anonymous Coward]

I was telling someone to right-click the other day. He looked down at his mouse.

"But I'm holding it in my right hand already"

"I mean right-click... there's two buttons, use the right-hand-side one"

"They're both on my right-hand-side... is there another of these?"

For the older generation, right-click makes no sense at all until you do this kind of mind-flip. I eventually latched on to calling it the rightmost button, but you can see why it may be confusing for someone who hasn't quite got their mind in the right mode yet.

Re:goodbye bank account

[lamz]

On a 1980s computer, with a more limited set of functions, and a computing public with a lower level of computing knowledge, one mouse button was probably better than two.

Good point. There once was a time when you had to explain to people what double-clicking meant. (And if they had an Atari ST, they had to learn to double-click really really quickly.)

I would add that the day it made sense to have a two-button mouse over a one-button mouse was the day that contextual menus were invented, because that was the first time that a consistent meaning was applied to the second button. Not to pick on my poor old Atari ST, but the uses for the second mouse button varied so much between applications that it was more trouble to try and figure out what it did than use it.

Notes for MS Bigots: The Atari ST shipped with a two-button mouse years before PCs even had mice. IBM first introduced contextual menus with OS/2 Warp.

Re:goodbye bank account

[edgar_is_good]

Note that machine comes with a CD-ROM. The CDRW/DVD drive is an extra $50. The apple is still more expensive, but comes with the mac iLife programs, which are worth the price to many people.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Golias]

My Mac mini order would have gone through by now if you bastards were not slashdotting the store to gawk at the specs!

Somebody hurry up and start an EQ2 vs. WoW flamewar or something, so the Apple Store servers will free up!

Re:goodbye bank account

[boobert]

Don't forget the $79 for shipping.

oh and the $49 for anti virus software.

Oh yeah and I would suggest the security package at least another $49

hmmm that'll be $526 also that's 349 after a $150 rebate.

Suck it PC user.

I can get away with that I use to be one ;)

Re:goodbye bank account

[rot26]

When I am at the gym, I listen to news on my MP3 player and when I get tired of news I listen to MP3s.

So record the news as an MP3 and listen to it later.

Guffaw.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Golias]

The mini uses the same ATI card as the latest eMac, which I can tell you first-hand handles World of Warcraft rather well.

Since we know there are no other games for the Mac (*ducks*), that should do the trick for the near future.

If you play a lot of games, I wouldn't tell you to get a Mac mini and a game console... I'd tell you to get a Mac mini and a KVM switch, and keep playing your twitch shooters on your uber-1337 game PC.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Moofie]

Look at all the icons in your system tray. Take an inventory of all the functions that are available with the right click, and then all the things that happen with a left click. I've been using computers for 20 years, and I not infrequently have to try both.

This is poor, poor design. Yes, it's poor design by the coders, but it's abetted by the availability of a right mouse button. Too many UI designers use that as a crutch. Don't know where a function should go? Sure, put it in a contextual menu.

With the Mac, all contextual menus are optional. I simply don't use them very much. I use middle-click for new tabs in Safari, and I like the scroll wheel, but neither of those features are critical to making the operating system function.

Try to run Windows without a right mouse button. It's possible, but MUCH harder.

Re:goodbye bank account

[hawk]

Actually I've found Windows to be pretty good about providing multiple ways to access things.

Yep [insert nod here].

You can access it, your Uncle Joe can access it, that kid in Siberia gathering credit card numbers can access it, . . . :)

hawk

Re:goodbye bank account

[Infamous Coward]

Who in their right mind buys memory from an OEM?

Err...someone who doesn't want to void the warranty? My post was in reply to one that noted that the specs page says:

"Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider.".

Are there "authorized service providers" that do not price gouge like the apple store? I would very much like 1GB of memory but there is no way I would pay these prices for it.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Frobozz0]

Good points!

My favorite windows UI quirk is how every application out there seems to duplicate every menu item in an icon stop. Because, yeah, it really helps me to see a thousand little indecipherable icons that have commands that also show up in the menu.

Oh-- and let's not forget how you restart a PC (not that you have to do it much)! Click "start." Select "shut down." Now select "restart." Yeah, I would have found that.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Moofie]

There are just as many ways to access things on MacOS. The difference is, at least way is well designed, accessible, and consistent. That's only very occasionally true with Windows.

Many options is not always good design.

Re:goodbye bank account

[juiceCake]

I know, I've been putting off buying a mac for quite some time, this makes it much harder to just say no.

Still too pricy for me here in Canada: Mac Mini upgraded to 512 MB RAM, 80 GB HD, Superdrive, AirPort Extreme Card - Only $1024.00 + tax. Unbelievable.

Re:goodbye bank account

[nadadogg]

Sorry man, I always give my Canadian friends shit about their money being worthless, but you deserve hot hot mac love as well.
I guess I can empty my pockets of change and mail it to you, that should cover about half of it at the current rate, right? ;)

Re:goodbye bank account

[Bio]

What does it say on that iPod shuffle page?

"What will it play next? ... New Order"

I want one! The Temptation is too big. Apple was Touched by the Hand of God when they designed that device. I have True Faith that I will not Regret buying one. No more Blue Monday! Having a Fine Time ...

Re:goodbye bank account

[JudgeFurious]

I got my most recent Mac for free. A PowerMac G4 Sawtooth that had a dead power supply. They didn't want to pay for the replacement part so they basically gave me the dead system.

Take one ATX power supply, cut four wires, splice two of them in to the other two and shazam! Free Mac.

Re:goodbye bank account

[mifunevalentine]

Why not? It's an Apple!

Re:goodbye bank account

[Psychic Burrito]

Well I use the standard mouse and am quite happy with it. Which good reasons to you have for right-mouse-drag on OS X?

Re:goodbye bank account

[MasonMcD]

"Mac mini: now shipping, with no-button mouse"

Leave it to Apple to simplify a single-element item.

Re:goodbye bank account

[rat_herder]

Drag and drop premiered on MacOS and it has always been via the left mouse button, even if you are using a 2 button mouse. Why would OS X need to support it via the right mouse button???

Re:goodbye bank account

[Pope]

Don't be so damn mysterious, what is this NEED for right-dragging? What function does that do and in which OS? TELL US DAMN YOU! :)

Re:goodbye bank account

[foonf]

Notes for MS Bigots: The Atari ST shipped with a two-button mouse years before PCs even had mice.

I don't think this is right. PC mice were available at least as early as 1983; the first Microsoft mouse came out then and it was even supported in the first DOS version of Word. There may have even been some available earlier than that. Mice were also available in that time span for the Apple II and other early architectures. The ST did not arrive until 1985.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Moofie]

You are a power user. I am a power user. My grandmother isn't.

The right mouse button is a useful feature for advanced users. That's why Apple has supported them IN THE OS since 1996, and Kensington supplied excellent functionality in their multi-button mouse driver back to 1994 (or earlier...that's when I bought one).

Look, when the PlayStation came out, developers had to make their games playable on the d-pad, since the DualShock gamepad wasn't available at ship time. The developers were forced to design to the least common denominator. However, most games that benefit from the analog control scheme had it built in...as an option.

I'm not saying that d-pads are better than analog control. I'm saying that forcing developers to cater to inexperienced (OK, ignorant) computer users is a good design decision, and a good business decision.

All the rest of us can plug in whatever mice we like. : )

(Oh yeah, and if you like keyboard shortcuts, check out keyquencer. This is the macro setup God uses.)

Re:goodbye bank account

[BlueCodeWarrior]

Well, I'll be able to help you. See, I know how to 'fix' the iMac so it's just a screen. Just ship it up, send it to me, and I'll take care of it. It just may look like a red Nokia 447L 15" CRT, but hey, that's just the bleeding edge of style with monitors these days.


You'll be happy...trust me.

Re:goodbye bank account

[MasonMcD]

Err...someone who doesn't want to void the warranty? My post was in reply to one that noted that the specs page says:

"Memory upgrade must be performed by an Apple Authorized Service provider.".

Are there "authorized service providers" that do not price gouge like the apple store? I would very much like 1GB of memory but there is no way I would pay these prices for it.


It doesn't say "memory must be purchased from Apple" only that the upgrade is performed by an authorized service provider.

Go out and buy RAM from RAMJet or whomever, and trot down to an Apple Store if you want to keep the warranty intact.

If you don't care - I know tons of /. readers are oh-so-careful not to void any warrantees with unnecessary mods - wait about 12 hours after the mac minis start shipping, then google for the damn japanese schematic detailing the 19 steps for cracking open the case, disassembling the case, sticking in the gig stick of RAM, neon tubing, the Radeon X800 XT with the slot cut out of the side of the mac to accommodate it, the peltier cooler, neon tubing and dry ice special effects.

24 hours after they ship, you can probably buy a ABS plastic extruded plastic case cracker with instructions off somebody's dot mac site.

Re:goodbye bank account

[BandwidthHog]

If I'm reading this right, then you are attempting to implement a feature such that Mac users with a stock setup will not be able to use it.

Re:goodbye bank account

[TClevenger]

Right-mouse drag-n-drop is the one feature that I miss. On Windows, you can right-drag and then choose Copy here, Move here, Create Shortcut here, Unzip here, etc. from the contextual menu that results. On OS X, you have to use a key combination when dragging and dropping, and you don't get cool add-ins like "WinRAR extract here."

Re:goodbye bank account

[lsmeg]

You may be right about the tray, but everywere else it's a godsend. When I need to get something done I usually right-click and I can get it done without resorting to top menus or toolbars.

I think the point here is that there shouldn't be any functionality that's only available by right-click. By shipping their systems with only one button mouses, they ensure that developers can't make functionality only available under a right-click since they can't assume their user has 2 buttons. I've found myself randomly right-clicking things in various windows apps trying to figure out how to do something because I couldn't find it on the menu or toolbar, which is poor design.

Re:goodbye bank account

[wwwillem]

Just bought (also Canada) a handsomely equipped Shuttle (AMD 64 3000+, 1 Gig, 80 Gig, DVD-R, no WiFi), so that sounds comparable to your Mac Mini config. And I paid also little above CAD 1000. I know you can buy a 500 bucks (400 US) PC, but then "you get what you pay for". So, even in Canadian dollars, I think this mini Mac is decently priced.

Anyway, if you're so serious about it being too expensive in Canada, Apple luckily made it small enough that you can just buy one at Fry's and take it home (in your coat pocket :). It's even cheap enough that you don't have to pay duties on it when bringing it back home.

My only concern with this Mini Mac next to my monitor and keyboard would be that I would be so tempted to put my beer mug on it. It really looks like a thick coaster .... the bad news being of course that the beer will warm up pretty quickly :-).

Re:goodbye bank account

[lowmagnet]

The bottom of the Mac mini says "Keyboard, mouse, megaphone and display sold separately."

Re:goodbye bank account

[NoodleSlayer]

The Mac Mini has no screw holes. At least none that I was able to see. A couple of us were looking at one today trying to figure out how to open the sucker ;)

Re:goodbye bank account

[Slayback]

No, you do not void your warranty to simply add RAM or upgrade the hard drive.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=1 39 46

Re:goodbye bank account

[MrYotsuya]

I guess I can empty my pockets of change and mail it to you, that should cover about half of it at the current rate, right? ;)


Looking at today's financial pages, the Canadian dollar buys 0.8214 US dollars and the US dollar buys 0.7617 Euros, I suppose it's just as true that a European can give you less pocket change to get that iPod

Re:goodbye bank account

[juiceCake]

I'd like to thank you for providing an excellent example. Comparing an AMD 64 3000+ system to a G4 system with half the RAM perfectly highlights the price and performance ratio that makes the Mac Mini less than attractive to yours truly and is indeed the main point I have made.

Thanks for the support.

Of course if performance isn't a major factor and preferences differ than one's opinion differs as well. I applaud Apple for filling in a niche for those who are interested in it.

Re:goodbye bank account

[Meneudo]

That's why apple Keyboards have an eject button. No apple keyboard? Then you probably don't have an apple mouse, so just right-click and hit eject. No apple keyboard but still using ol' one button? Use the finder.

Re:goodbye bank account

[SnowDog74]

The funniest part about that story in the URL is that Microsoft tried to solve the problem of three uninformative function labels by reducing them to a one-size-fits-all label that is even more uninformative, given that it provides you no context for the variety of things hiding within the menu.

Put it this way... If a person isn't curious enough to explore three menus that very poorly describe where they lead, why would they be inclined to explore one button that tells them even less?

Apple's answer to this came in the form of the Dock. Probably realizing just how prevalent the use of desktop shortcuts had become, they decided to integrate the dock which... compared to XP, gives the user a wealth of information in one uniform lexicon that isn't very hard to grasp because one can immediately correlate the visual response with an action they performed that only someone lacking basic cognitive association functions could not interpret: 1. Available applications

The dock shows a series of icons, some of which may be familiar, others which give the user a good idea what they do... iPhoto, for example, is represented by an icon of a camera and a photograph.

2. State of an application

When an icon is clicked, it bounces, and eventually the application comes up. A couple of attempts at this and most people can deduce their clicking on said icon launched a particular app.

Once the app is launched and open, an indicator shows that it is running... the user can also make this correlation. Each application, once launched, has a file menu that is represented not by the word "File" but by the name of the application. It seems far more logical that the "quit" function for that app is under the app's name in the menu bar.. rather than "File"... which is where you find all file-related functions.

Contextual in OS X actually means contextual.

3. Advanced information

The more a user becomes familiar with OS X, they will find that the dock is the place to locate the application itself... the contextual menu for each icon has a "Show in Finder" function, as well as "Quit" or "Force quit".

By contrast, Windows continues to couch "Exit" under "File" and the only way to force-quit an application that's gone apeshit is to launch task manager... for the entry-level user, this may not be as immediately obvious as, well, looking at the application status icon.

Someone mentioned the eject function earlier... While in previous iterations of Mac OS, it was couched under "File" in the menubar or by drag-dropping to the trash, OS X is ingenius, again, with not only contextual menus but contextual icons...

Instead of, as another poster pointed out, showing you nine zillion indiscernable icons that are all redundantly represented in the menu... OS X has some icons that appear only when appropriate.

The best example is when you grab a removable volume/disk, and take it to the dock... in the trash can's place appears the universal "Eject" icon... the very same that can be found on any optical disk playback device.

Well....

[JoeLinux]

Technically, we now have an iPod for $99 now...technically.

Anyone else dissapointed?

Re:Well....

[timeOday]

Well, I don't think it will be an "iPod" killer, so to speek.

On the other hand, this is the first iPod that will be really well suited for running and biking. It's light enough, cheap enough, and all solid state. $99 for a 512 meg player isn't bad, last I checked.

If it has separate buttons for skipping between albums vs. skipping between songs, it might not be too hard to navigate 512 meg's worth of music without a screen.

Re:Well....

[emilymildew]

Wait, you want the storage space of an iPod, and the features of an iPod, but not the price tag?

No wonder you were disappointed at this keynote. Why didn't they just provide THAT?

Re:Well....

[Reignking]

Do not taunt IPodShuffle.

Coool!

[rootus-rootus]

This is a very good thing, now I can afford a mac ;-)

Mac Mini

[deviator]

Nice. These types of things at these pricepoints are the types of things that can change the world - every kid & teenager could end up with one, using their Mom & Dad's hand-me-down Keyboard/Video/Mouse.

Re:Mac Mini

[rayde]

i agree. most people have always agreed that mac os x is superior, but price has always been the sticky issue. with price becoming more realistic, perhaps apple can start winning back its market share.

i think this is just the beginning. if apple stays in this market, we'll see more powerful iterations of the mac mini in a similar price point with more powerful features down the road.

kudos apple!

Re:Mac Mini

[Hungry Student]

I agree, this is great, however, with two USB slots and no PS2 ports, a USB hub at least will be required, especially if existing USB peripherals are needed. That said, this is a good move for Apple, right market, right price, should reap rewards. The noise reduction is also rather spiffy, add that to the fact that this box certainly wouldn't be aesthetically at odds in a lounge, Mac OS X Media Edition anyone?

Re:Mac Mini

[Xzzy]

That's not the point, the point is it makes it marketable as a PC replacement. A cheap replacement.

Apple started hooking PC users in with the iPod, now they can reel them in with a plug and play replacement.

Gotta admit it's pretty clever. ;)

Re:Mac Mini

[mithras the prophet]

It's even better than one-button. Steve is officially selling the zero-mouse-button Mac.

Re:Mac Mini

[cosmic_0x526179]

I like the mac mini, but...

Can I put more RAM in it ? That is the question most on my mind now. The HD is more than sufficient, but I would LOVE to have 1GB of ram in it.

The other thing is that price point almost makes it a WalMart/KMart/Target/BestBuy kind of device. Now wouldn't that be interesting.

Re:Mac Mini

[BasilBrush]

Buy a Mac keyboard to go with it, and you get two more USB connectors right there.

Re:Mac Mini

[BWJones]

The other item that makes these particularly interesting that everyone is missing is that they could be great little servers. I have been using a G3 based iMac for a page that routinely serves up 45k hits/day and a served up a recent Slashdotting with 450k hits/day without a hiccup. That was a 400Mhz G3, so I wonder what two or three of these Mac Mini's with a KVM switch could do for very little money.

I've got my order in.

Re:Mac Mini

[Moofie]

Apple finally delivers a $500 Mac, and people whine that it doesn't have a kb and a mouse.

Guess what: It doesn't include a 30" HD Cinema Display either. You also don't get to complain that the included mouse only has one button.

Go to Fry's and spend $10 on a USB keyboard and mouse. Damn...just goes to show you that you can't please everybody.

Re:Mac Mini

[Jhan]

What I can't quite make out is if the MiniMac is fanless? I'm running my own domain (DNS/Mail/Web/etc.) on a noise-ish computer in my bedroom and have been checking out silent machines for a couple of years. My next buy was going to be - grudgingly - a pay-through-your-nose HushPC.

The new MiniMac looks like it could be fanless. The front and sides seems to be hermetically sealed, but there are these ridges on the back that look suspisciously like air intakes/outlets. ...or are they just radiator fins?

If this is a sub-BTX 1.5ish MHz PPC $600 machine w. FireWire that is <blink><yell><explode part="head"> utterly silent</explode></yell></blink> there is nothing, repeat nothing on the market that can compete with this. I'm getting five.

Re:Mac Mini

[gunnk]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that putting Apple in Microsoft's position would be a good thing. What WOULD be a good thing for everyone -- whether you use Windows, OS X, or Linux -- would be for Apple to have a larger marketshare than it does currently. Why? Because competition in the OS marketplace is GOOD. It would be a much healthier market if Microsoft only had, for example, 60% of the market.

Markets without a clearly dominant player tend to be more innovative, more dynamic, and more responsive to the needs of their customers.

Apple may or may not be "less evil" than Microsoft, but regardless of that, real competition is still a Good Thing.

Re:Mac Mini

[rho]

Jesus... Slashdot is the new home for the perpetually whiny.

8 years ago, it was "why doesn't Apple have a sub-notebook?" Now everybody wants a huge, testicle-frying Super-notebook.

6 years ago, it was "why doesn't Apple have a server?" Well, golly, Apple's server offerings kick everybody else's ass, but of course, since you actually have to pay money for them, some people bitch about them.

2 years ago, it was "if only Apple sold a cheap headless Mac, I'd buy one!" Okay, your time is now, hero.

Some people are never satisfied. You got what you wanted--now you want more? If they included a mouse, you'd bitch about how it was the 1-button Apple mouse, or you'd bitch that the keyboard wasn't wireless.

Buy your own goddamn keyboard and mouse and STFU.

Re:Mac Mini

[Trurl's Machine]

What I can't quite make out is if the MiniMac is fanless?

I'm typing this right from the showroom in mini-MWSF in Paris. Silent work is also quite important for me. What can I say is that Mini Mac is totally silent when it works (I literally did press my ear to it). Maybe it has a fan that kicks in once in a while, like in iBooks, but when it just runs - it runs with no fan.

Re:Mac Mini

[Anonymous Coward]

The 'Design' page says it has "a teensy little fan".

Re:Mac Mini

[prockcore]

Buy a Mac keyboard to go with it, and you get two more USB connectors right there.

But it's not powered. So you can use the keyboard to plug in a mouse and a thumbdrive, but not much else.

Plus, Apple keyboards are $80.

Re:Mac Mini

[TylerL82]

Nope. Apple Keyboard is now $29.
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObj ects/A ppleStore?productLearnMore=M9034LL/A

You're thinking of the $69 wireless keyboard (it's $59 now).

Re:Mac Mini

[tedwilliamsis]

Wait, wait, I thought I just heard you call Slashdot the "new home for the perpetually whiny"

I think you must be what's new around here

Re:Mac Mini

[Moofie]

So add more memory. RAM comes free in boxes of cereal now. What's the problem?

Re:Mac Mini

[BandwidthHog]

why the fuck did they ever build that mouse in the first place

At home I'm a Mac user with an eleven button trackball. At work one of my duties is to administer a small lab full of Winders machines for our students. I would *love* to find a source for cheap, one-button PS/2 mice. Now that I deal with so many first-time computer users, I totally understand it.

Re:Mac Mini

[rho]

Why use Linux? If you have a Mac already, you can use the remote desktop to admin it graphically. If not, well... it runs a Unixalike already. You won't get that much of a speed boost from Linux at the cost of having to beta test drivers for the hardware.

If you do go this route, and install Mac OS X Server, you'll be in the unique position of paying more for your server license than for your server hardware!

Re:Mac Mini

[nacturation]

"There are several niches that the Mac Mini doesn't quite satisfy..."

Of course, this raises the question: if you satisfy every niche, is it still a niche product?

Re:Mac Mini

[Moofie]

They could have also included a free pony. If they'd raised the price to about three grand.

Jesus...it's the best looking SFF PC on the planet. Add the peripherals you need. What's the damn problem?

Re:Mac Mini

[Moofie]

Hel-LO spec sheet!

# DVI video output for digital resolutions up to 1920 x 1200 pixels; supports 20-inch Apple Cinema display and 23-inch Apple Cinema HD display; supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz; supports non-coherent digital displays up to 135MHz
# VGA video output (using included adapter) to support analog resolutions up to 1920 x 1080 pixels

Re:Mac Mini

[Macgrrl]

*nod*

I was thinking - this would go neatly next to the GCN as a media centre, put an airport Card into it and hook it up into the home theatre system for playing back video we have downloaded (the have just started playing season 6 West Wing over here - they were making a big deal in the press the other day about Zoe being found *sigh*, yes we get TV by BT). I do most of the admin of my old iMac from my PowerBook anyway, it shouldn't be any more difficult to run the Mini-Mac the same way.

Re:Mac Mini

[soft_guy]

Were you seriously expecting Apple to ship a Mac with PS/2 ports?

Second, I'm not sure why you think you would need a USB hub with this. Plug in a standard Mac keyboard and you get two usb ports on the keyboard. Now, plug in the mouse and you still have a total of two USB ports available.

Want to plug in an iPod? You use Firewire for that.

A scanner? OK, that's one USB port.

A printer? OK, that's another USB port. Unless you have an Airport Express in which case you can print wirelessly.

What do you need the third one for? Sure, I can think of uses, but I also think that the majority of users would not need a USB hub.

Re:Mac Mini

[Slack3r78]

Agreed with you on most points, though I really wish they'd gone with the "other" lowend GPU - the FX5200 Ultra. The reason? The 5200 is on the list to be supported by CoreImage in Tiger, the 9200 is not. Sucks that an all new machine won't support one of the major features of an OS update that's only a few months away.

Yes, but...

[Mitchell Mebane]

Will Pages be MS Word compatible?

Re:Yes, but...

[Andy_R]

Yes. From http://www.apple.com/iwork/

"Pages is compatible. It imports AppleWorks documents and imports and exports Microsoft Word documents. Want to share your documents online? Pages also offers the easiest way to create great looking PDF files. Pages makes it easy to share your work with others."

Re:Yes, but...

[singularity]

Given that both TextEdit (Apple's Notepad equivalent) and AppleWorks were as compatible as they could be (without MS revealing file specs), I would strongly guess it would be.

Re:Yes, but...

[timeOday]

I think a lot will hinge on just how compatible it turns out to be. Personally I don't think the level of compatibility provided by reverse-engineering something that complex is likely to be satisfactory. (Yes, I used OpenOffice and no, I don't send important documents out after exporting from OO to .doc without at least loading into MS Word first - and usually fixing up some tables and so forth).

I gather Microsoft sometimes licenses .doc code or documentation to proprietary software shops, but how dumb would MS be to help Apple make a viable alternative to Office?

Re:Yes, but...

[jdavidb]

Want to share your documents online? Pages also offers the easiest way to create great looking PDF files.

I realize those two sentences may make perfect sense together to anybody who doesn't understand the web, but to the rest of us, it's a non-sequiter. Want to share your documents online? Please, for crying out loud, write your documents in HTML and make them actually work on the web instead of uploading a bunch of junk in binary file formats. I am so sick of navigating my internal company intranet and seeing that HR has no clue what the web is for so they've given us a bunch of random Word documents to download.

I realize there are cases when useful information can be better presented in specialized formats like PDF and Word (or better still some competing open file format like OO.o ). I'm not talking about those cases. I'm talking about when all you have is a few paragraphs of text to share. Just slap <p> tags around them and upload them; don't pretty them up in a word processor and export to a honking huge file format!

Re:Yes, but...

[soullessbastard]

Disclaimer: I am a developer for Mac OS X OpenOffice.org and a founder of the NeoOffice project.

Just the fact that you can import and export doesn't exactly mean it's 100% compatible. Heck, even Office v.X/2004 isn't 100% compatible with Windows Office generated files. One of the strengths of OpenOffice.org and NeoOffice is the accuracy of their import and export filters.

I wouldn't suspect Pages would be successful converting Word documents that have embedded Excel spreadsheets and charts those that go trapesing off to do database queries with macros. I suspect Pages would convert them to tatters.

While Pages may be sufficient for doing the basics of letter writing and entry-level document preparation, many of the more complex business level documents still will require Microsoft Office or an equivalent alternative. Office may be bloatware, but that doesn't prevent people from finding a way to use all of those features and then complaining when they don't work in another product. That makes true document compatibility a difficult task that can't fully be addrsesed by a word processing application alone.

ed

Re:Yes, but...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Want to share your documents online? Please, for crying out loud, write your documents in HTML and make them actually work on the web instead of uploading a bunch of junk in binary file formats.

I think you are mistaking the point. If you want to share your documents online, in general PDF is a great format. For example, if you want to distribute a newsletter via e-mail, PDF is a good way to go. If you want to send out marketing info, PDF is a good way to go. It is standard, exact, and a single file. Doc is not standard, and may or may not be readable on your platform, and implies to people that they need to buy products from MS. Doc files also are extra large and may include way too much information about what is on your hard-drive. HTML is great for hosting a file for the Web (note this is not the same as the internet, it is a subset), but it is a crappy way to e-mail things, and is not easy to print. If you have any images, or multiple pages, you end up with a slew of files for a single document.

In any case, Pages supports export to PDF and HTML so if a person was planning on hosting something as a web page, it should not be hard to make an HTML version. I get a little upset whenever I see the bad reputation PDF has. Every time I open one on a Windows machine, I remember why this is the case. It is because Acrobat reader is a dog-slow piece of crap, that will bring a Windows box to a crawl while trying to load and scroll. On OS X PDFs are great, and finding one in a web page is not annoying. They download in the background, scroll just fine, and do not make your machine go catatonic for 10 minutes while all you want to do is read a few pages.

Re:Yes, but...

[Elwood P Dowd]

While Pages may be sufficient for doing the basics of letter writing and entry-level document preparation, many of the more complex business level documents still will require Microsoft Office or an equivalent alternative.

And while Microsoft Office might be sufficient for doing the basics of memo writing and entry-level document preparation, many of the more complex prepress documents still will require Pages or an equivalent alternative.

Look at Apple's screenies for Pages, and tell me that you'd want to try and use MS Word to create those documents. I'd rather have a hole in my head. Pages' layout features look as if they surpass Word like Keynote surpasses PowerPoint. Yes, if you need an embedded Excel spreadsheet, you'll need Office. But you might already have MS Office, and still need Pages.

Re:Yes, but...

[Elwood P Dowd]

I'll be curious to see how the HTML and .doc compatibility works.

I just got back from MacWorld, and this was the very first thing I asked of the very first demoer I saw. Well, I don't care about .doc formatting working perfectly as well as I care about HTML formatting working perfectly. And the answer is that it doesn't work very well at all. Most of the general layout is there, but much is lost. I didn't ask to see .doc exporting.

One of the project managers was over the shoulder of the demo guy, and he pointed out "but our columns have features that they don't have". The columns actually worked perfectly, but text flow around an image element had a semi-messed up border.

Obviously, given the headaches of multiple browser compatibility, there would be absolutely no way that they could allow you to use whatever layout feature you wanted in Pages, export it to HTML, and have it to look perfect. Unfortunately, it doesn't look very good at all. The demo guy said, "Well, all the content is there".

Outside of the HTML export, the application is fucking rad. If your desired output method is PDF or paper, I've never seen a slicker word processor. They beefed up the Keynote canvas until it could handle everything you need for page layout.

Has to be said....

[Anonymous Coward]

the flash-based iPod is cool but damn it sure does look like a tampon.

iTampon maybe?

Re:Has to be said....

[Anonymous Coward]

For the average Slashdotter, a "tampon" is a personal hygiene (you know, hygiene?... oh, nevermind) device that "women" (you know, non-guys) use in places you'll never, ever see. Just FYI.

Re:Has to be said....

[wildwood]

the flash-based iPod is cool but damn it sure does look like a tampon.

Hmmm...

Tweak the form a little bit, add a "vibrate" function... hello, dildonics!

"Can you feel the bass, baby?"

my thoughts....

[the_mighty_$]

iHope iCan get one!

Re:my thoughts....

[Nik Picker]

actually you can moderate this a little to say

Ihope Ican getI

you see, the gag is I is the roman numeral for 1 and also sounds like one or can look like an I. so you can say.

I hope I can Get One

or

One Hope One Can Get One

oh we just laugh and laugh and laugh and then the warder comes round with the little purple pills.

Hopefully.

[BlackEyedSceva]

If the new Ipod has the sound quality of a Ipod I might look into buying one. That is the main problem with small mp3 players today, yeah maybe it can hold 20 miliion hours of music, but it sounds like crap.

ouch

[riceforlife]

::kicks self real hard for not buying apple stock 12 months ago::

Re:ouch

[Ethelred Unraed]

Except that AAPL is actually zooming downwards at the moment. Something like -4% in less than an hour after the keynote ended.

My hunch is that it's because Apple just fired a big-ass shot across Microsoft's bow with iWork. We can likely say bye-bye to Office v.X for Mac, and with it quite possibly the Mac platform. (At least in my experience, the existence of Office for Mac was one of the few things that kept the platform alive for a very large number of users, both corporate and private.)

That's the only explanation I can think of at the moment. SJ just delivered an under-$500 Mac and an under-$200 iPod, so you'd think people would be going ape-shit.

Cheers,

Ethelred

Re:ouch

[nelsonal]

That combined with the concern that Apple will be selling $500 systems to the same people they were selling $1200 systems to without adding enough additional computers to offset the loss.

Redundant?

[timster]

no wireless. Slower than a dell. Lame.

From iPod Shuffle website

[m_dob]

2. Do not eat

http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/

$499 Mac? Damn

[Anonymous Coward]

Well now that's it's true...damn, even I might buy one!

I'm begining to get the feeling that Steve Jobs might be trying to reposition Apple. Hardware is a mugs game, after all. We all know what happened the last time Apple tried to licence the Mac to clone builders..but what if they tried it now?

It seems to me that over the last two or three years Apple has been working to reposition itself from a hardware company to a more diverse place, where the OS and the services it offers (E.g. iTunes) are what matters more than the hardware. The $499 Mac would seem to enforce that point. The idea is obviously to try and penetrate into the mid range market; make the Mac an everymans computer. If they can do it, and if they can increase their market share, they would certainly seem to have enough room to manovour and licence the Mac to clone builders again..

Cheap mac?

[Cyn]

Head exploding.

Re:No screen?

[entrager]

As the name suggests, the iPod Shuffle doesn't allow navigation, it just randomly plays songs.

Now I have seen everything...

[litac]

Take a look at the bottom of the http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/ iPod Shuffle page on the Apple website. It actually says "Do Not Eat iPod shuffle".

Perfect Terminal

[hbuschme]

The Mac Mini will be a perfect X-Terminal to use with a Linux box in another room. You'll have a silent and small box on your desk and the fat and loud server is down in the basement. Great.

Re:Perfect Terminal

[TheRaven64]

It would be seriously over powered for a dumb X terminal. A 100MHz machine is more than you need for an X terminal (assuming that you have enough network bandwidth). $499 is also a lot for an X terminal (You can usually pick up silent X terminals on eBay for a tenth of that). If you want to run X apps on one of these, a better solution would be simply to modify /etc/ttys so that it boots to X or a command-line login and install Fink/DarwinPorts/pkgsrc (whichever you prefer) and run the Apps locally. Or just install Linux/NetBSD/your favourite non-Darwin *NIX.

Screenless IPod ain't so bad

[Mablung]

I dropped my IPod in a puddle a few months after I got it, and after that the screen would come and go. If you've got all your settings the way you like them and you just randomize your whole playlist, it works just fine.

Just me?

[yak_7]

Just me, or has apple been slashdotted?

Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting one..

[WIAKywbfatw]

The Mac Mini looks like it's the thing for me. I've never owned a Mac in my life - I've used a few in my time and I've been to a few Mac Expos with Mac-owning friends - but I think that's about to change.

This is the Mac for all of us who said Macs were too expensive. For around £400 (yeah, Apple just like the rest of them loves screwing non-Americans when it comes to exchange rates) I'll have a nice little toy that'll give me some first-hand experience of MacOS 10.4 plus my girlfriend will have a easy-to-use machine that she can play with when I'm hogging my PC.

Hopefully, it'll work with the PS/2 keyboards and mice that I've got lying around, if not then I suppose that I'll be shelling out for USB ones but that's no great loss.

Mark my words: these babies are going to sell like hot cakes.

Pictures online at the Apple Store

[PenguinRadio]

http://www.apple.com/store

but it is crashing pretty hard. Basically 1/3 of a cube. Smooth looking. Ports in back, CD slit in front and that's about it.

Bet you could make a cool cluster out of these.

Re:No screen?

[entrager]

I should add that it's possible to have it play songs in a pre-set order, which you would define from within iTunes. You would just need to memorize the order.

Not as dumb as you think...

[moofdaddy]

There will be a lot of bitching about the new iPod not having a screen. However I say that apple has done it once again. You have to understand the market for the new iPod, it is not meant to hold your entire music folder, its not meant to go with you on long drives.

The new iPod is for the runners, for the people who take it with them to the gym, etc. These are people who wouldn't be navigating songs anyway, they just toss on a playlist, hit shuffle and go. This is exactly what the new ipod does, with only 200 songs, you don't really need to select your songs.

If you want a display, if you want to hold other stuff, this iPod isn't for you, get the other ones. If you just want to listen to music while you work out, then this is exactly what you want.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[mapmaker]

However I say that apple has done it once again.

Right, cuz there aren't already a bazillion small screenless internal-flash-based mp3 players on the market...

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[prockcore]

Load Shuffle before bed, take a whole day's music (and much more) out the door in the morning. Always different. Freakin' genius. Once again, Apple changes how we manage our music.

Give me a break. Even Nike has a flash mp3 player that does shuffle. It even has an arm band, designed specifically for runners.

The iPod Shuffle is not innovative, or revolutionary. In fact, it's identical to the players already available by *shoe* companies.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[hoggoth]

> Watch the "random" meme spread to other product categories.

It's already happening.
Just today I saw an ad for a new Microwave oven that cooks your food on a random temperature for a random length of time! Surprise!
And then there's the clothes washer that picks a random cycle; What will it be today? Color? Whites? Gentle?
My favorite is the new service from eTrade that shuffles your stock portfolio. Takes all the effort out of trading!

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[Bullet-Dodger]

Would you care to provide a link to one that's as small, light, cheap, and has as much room? As well as syncing as nicely with the music on your computer. (Not trolling, I'd actually like to know)

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?desc ription=55-102-169&depa=0

OK, so it's $25 more. But it has a screen, an FM tuner, and a voice recorder.

It syncs pretty nicely with Windows Media Player 10.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[mapmaker]

Here's one that's smaller, lighter, just as cheap, and has just as much room. Plus it has an LCD screen, voice recorder and FM radio.

This ipod shuffle really is just a "me too" product.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[plastik55]

If by "smaller and lighter" you mean "50% wider, 70% heavier and twice as thick." Try again dude.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[Scudsucker]

Plus it has an LCD screen, voice recorder and FM radio.

True, true and true.

smaller, lighter, just as cheap, and has just as much room

False, false, false, true.

The Shuffle is 2 millimeters shorter, 12 millimeters narrower, and half as thick. The Jetflash weighs 3 grams more, and thats WITHOUT the battery. The 1 gig version is $4 more than the Shuffle of the same size, but the half gig version is 14% more expensive than Apple's.

This ipod shuffle really is just a "me too" product.

Only if you count a cheaper model at half the size to be "me too". Yes, the Jetflash has a voice recorder, for the .0005% of the population that needs one. The built in radio is a nice feature, if the reception is good, for those who want it.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[bware]

Give me a break. Even Nike has a flash mp3 player that does shuffle. It even has an arm band, designed specifically for runners.

Yeah, my gf just spent something like $250 getting one of those from Nike with a whole 256M of memory (and a pedometer). We spent an hour setting up the lousy (compared to iTunes) jukebox/download software.

She's boxing it up tonight to send back and placing her order for the Shuffle.

Re:Not as dumb as you think...

[Fwonkas]

Plus it has an LCD screen, voice recorder and FM radio.

None of which are necessary for a jog. Seriously, I know we're all geeks here, but try to understand why the iPod and the iPod mini succeeded. Hint: it wasn't because of lots of extra special features.

Face it, folks. Apple has managed, with the iPod line, to embody the unix philosophy - do one thing and do it very well.

I know someone is going to point to iPod photo. But the iPod photo has not (as far as I know) been as successful as the basic models.

I used to use a Muvo. It did one thing and did it so-so. I would have been happy with it (despite only 64MB of space and no display) if it weren't so unreliable and if the batteries didn't die every day. Something tells me the iPod shuffle will be a much better product.

I now own a 20GB 4G iPod. The abundance of space is nice, but after owning 4 crappy MP3 players, what I really enjoy is the simplicity and predictability. You know, the same thing I like about grep and cat.

One solution to iPod Shuffle no screen

[Nom du Keyboard]

One solution to dealing with the iPod Shuffle's lack of a screen is build them small enough that they can only hold 2 songs. This way you only need an On/Off button and an Other Song button. And that will save case space as well.

Re:One solution to iPod Shuffle no screen

[acey72]

Easier solution - get into '70's prog rock and you'll only fit two songs, complete with guitar/bass/drum/triangle solos, onto a 1 gig iShuffle

No Spreadsheet?

[NardofDoom]

I'm suprised there's no spreadsheet app in iWork. I'd imagine that a lot of people need an Excel compatible spreadsheet.

Oh well, I guess I'm sticking with NeoOffice/J for a little while longer.

Re:No Spreadsheet?

[jmelloy]

Steve Jobs said it was coming "soon" ... must not've made the deadline.

Re:No Spreadsheet?

[nine-times]

I've wondered if part of the strategy is to not make a complete competitor to MS Office. There's been a lot of talk about, if Apple releases iWork, MS will pull support for Office X, and suddenly Mac looks like a less-promising option for a lot of businesses. So maybe by not completing the suite, Apple's dodged that bullet? It's more common for non-business people to need a word processor anyhow.

Even if this is the case, it doesn't mean that there isn't an Excel clone in the works. Apple might be holding off, perfecting it, and working on Mail/AddressBook/iCal compatibility with Exchange Server, so that if they release the whole thing and MS pulls the plug on office, it'll be no great loss because they'll have a superior solution ready. Who knows?

Re:No Spreadsheet?

[keytoe]

I believe the iWork moniker is intended to be the counterpart to the iLife package. Over the years, Apple has added new applications to the iLife bundle, and I assume they'll do the same with iWork. There were rumors running around about an app called Cells - which fits the naming scheme.

Apple is already firing a shot across Microsoft's bow with this - and firing two shots at once by releasing a word processor and spreadsheet might have been a bit much. Who knows - maybe Keynote and Pages are enough on their own to push MS out of the Mac market...

iMac mini

[Chief Typist]

So it's true...

Wow!

Now I'm wondering if you can shave 0.25" off of the thing and mount it in a 1U rack. The specs seem good for a cheap & simple web server.

Also, I predict that there will be some kind of add-on in the next 6 months that allows you to control this Mac with a infra-red remote -- something to run the CD & DVD without a display attached.

The after-market is going to have a field day with this device!

-ch

Re:iMac mini

[larkost]

Six months... umm it is already out. Keyspan announced it in November, and it just started shipping (yesterday I believe). The remote can either work directly, or through an AirportExpress.

We've slashdotted Apple!

[Altima(BoB)]

Judging the crawl at which the normally bulletproof Apple website is moving, it seems the allure of cheap Apple goodies is what it took to bring the weight of the internet to bear on one of the strongest servers out there.

Raise your glasses, this is a day to remember.

Re:We've slashdotted Apple!

[kmare]

I don't think it's because of slashdot... but because of the keynote..

Re:We've slashdotted Apple!

[SilentChris]

"the normally bulletproof Apple website is moving"

Lol. Have you never seen one of their live webcasts before?

Re:We've slashdotted Apple!

[Xyde]

It's not you guys. I was in an IRC channel which was covering the keynote earlier and it had 1876 users in it. (all hitting refresh on apple.com) I'm sure slashdot has something to do with it as well, but there are about 10 of these channels plus other sites doing live coverage. I wouldn't be suprised if there were about 50,000 - 100,000 people trying to access it at this point.

Mac Mini

[sometwo]

Engadget has some pictures of the mac mini http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000590026982/ It's about 1/3 the size of the cube- looks smaller than most external cd drives. They're going to cell millions.

Don't EAT iPod?

[Aetrix]

http://www.apple.com/ipodshuffle/ The caption under the "gum" picture reads, "iPod Shuffle: Smaller than a pack of gum and much more fun.(2)"

(2) "Do not eat iPod shuffle."

Re:i'M iMpressed...

[subuni]

iPod Shuffle: http://webpages.charter.net.nyud.net:8090/mattman7 /shuf.jpg

Mac Mini: http://webpages.charter.net.nyud.net:8090/mattman7 /mini.jpg

Evil Steve Jobs

[krbvroc1]

I can just see Evil Steve Jobs at the marketing table. He raises his pinky to the corner of his mouth and says, "I'll think I'll call it mini Mac".

Bhwahahaha.

http://www.macmerc.com/

[slapout]

http://www.macmerc.com blogged the thing live. I hope they don't made me posting it here.

01:59 PM - The speech is wrapping up. Please stay tuned to MacMerc for coverage. I'll be moblogging photos from the Apple booth in a few minutes. And if you haven't already, please PayPal us a buck or two (button left column). Thanks!

01:54 PM - Shipping starting today. Accessories rolling out in the next four weeks.

01:54 PM - 2 models: 512MB for $99 and 1GB for $149.99.

01:53 PM - Autofill: button in iTunes to make a playlist sized for the iPod shuffle. You can also manually fill it. You can also use the iPod Shuffle as a USB flash drive (choose how much for songs how much for data).

01:50 PM - iPod Shuffle: really tiny (smaller than most packs of gum), no screen, weighs under 1 ounce. Cap on the bottom, USB 2. 12 hour rechargeable battery. PC/Mac. Looks about the size of a flash key drive.

01:46 PM - There is one more thing: iPod marketshare is 65% over double last year. But Apple is going after the remaining flash player market.

01:45 PM - Motorola: iTunes client on Motorola phones. Showing Motorola e398. Phones shipping this spring.

01:43 PM - iPods on cars: BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Volvo, Scion.

01:40 PM - We have the iPod and the iPod mini (something else coming???). Holiday 2004 quarter iPod sales: 4.5 million vs. 730K a year ago. Cross 10 million iPods sold, 8 million in 2004.

01:39 PM - Moving onto iPod...

01:37 PM - iTMS sold 230 million songs so far. On pace for 1.25 billion.

01:36 PM - Mac mini is in stores January 22nd.

01:34 PM - The Mac mini fits in the palm of your hand. Hook it into your own keyboard and mouse, or Apple's. Comes with Panther and iLife 05. Price point:$499 $599.

01:34 PM - The Mac mini looks like a 3" tall CD drive. A short cube. All the connections, DVI and VGA.

01:33 PM - Introducing the Mac mini -- ThinkSecret was right!

01:32 PM - "Why doesn't Apple provide a stripped down lower cost Mac?"

01:32 PM - iWork available January 22 for $79

01:27 PM - Phil is out to do a demo of Pages. Start with a blank page or a template. Import photos in pages through iPhoto library (iLife is integrated). Designed by the Keynote team. Word processing with a sense of style.

01:21 PM - iWork announced, to replace AppleWorks. Built from the ground up for OS X. Includes major update to Keynote: 10 new themes, animated text, powerful animated builds, presenter display, interactive slideshows, self playing kiosk slideshows.
PagesOther part of iWork, advanced word processor. 40 Apple designed templates.

01:21 PM - iLife 2005 will be priced at $79. Goes on sale a week from this Friday. Free on all new Macs.

01:18 PM - Traffic update: about 100,000 pages an hour. Please donate if you have found this useful--the webhost enjoys being paid. (PayPal button sidebar left). Update: Thanks guys, keep em coming. We sprung for a dedicated server for our coverage.

01:15 PM - John Mayer is on stage showing the new GarageBand (he helped introduce the first version). Notes, "I didn't win any grammy's for playing the piano."

01:14 PM - GarageBand '05: Up to 8 track recording. Real time music notation (taken from Logic), pitch and timing fixing, recorded tracks now can act as loops, create loops, vocal transformer. Also a new Jampack (#4)

01:09 PM - iDVD '05: 15 new animated themes, OneStep DVD creation (video to DVD in one step), All DVD formats(+R/W).

01:05 PM - Spotted on stage, small metallic box with Apple logo...

01:04 PM - The president of Sony is on stage talking about HD. Steve is a fan of Sony's prosumer HD video camera (just $3499).

12:58 PM - iMovie 05: Faster, non destructive trimming, more transitions and effects, mpeg 4 video, Magic iMovie (auto movie). Biggest feature: HD.

12:45 PM - iPhoto '05: Better searching, More formats, far more powerful editing, more book designs, better organization (folders, c

Re: 6x6x2.5 inch computer running Macos X!

[Hawthorne01]

No shi'ite. This little thing, combined with Airport Express and/or and El Gato box, will make one hell of a media server. Perfect for hooking up to a plasma TV/Monitor.

And I can get the Mrs. a FlashPod to mollify her so I can get what I want. *vbg*

Best. SteveNote. Ever!

or, from the Mac Mini design page

[Cappy Red]

Keyboard, iPod mini, dock, hands, AirPort, Bluetooth and PC sold separately.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html

Slashdot...

[sometwo]

Linking to a popular Mac site right after a Macworld keynote is like kicking a man when he's already down on the ground.

Not _all_ expected plugs...

[javaxman]

well, at least not all of those expected by everyone. Some folks ( who clearly didn't know ) were predicting something you could plug into a TV. This isn't that, it's a standard computer with typical modern computer ports and DVI/VGA video, just 'mini'. Really, really, mini... it makes that George Foreman Grill computer look freekin' huge.

Re:Not _all_ expected plugs...

[Mr.Zuka]

on the contrary
Apple is showing the adapter to hook it up to a TV on the main site for the mac mini http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html

Small Form Factor PCs?

[Mad_Rain]

I was thinking about getting a little Small-form factor box to run something like MythTv, something along the lines of a AMD64. But checking out the Mac mini just makes me wonder about how I could get that going. Anyone think that this box could be a useful solution to that kind of project? I think the fairly standardized hardware would make that pretty simple to do, but being a non-mac person, I have no idea.

And damn - just in time to consider when upgrading my parents old machines. ;)

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[mbourgon]

Two options:
1) Something like the El Gato EyeTV. This is your PVR functionality.

2) Someone write a Cocoa frontend for MythTV. I don't think it'd be easy to port over a full fledged version, but a frontend is probably doable.
(I Am Not A Software Programmer)

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[Johnathon_Dough]

Not free, but elgato software makes the eyeTV for macs

EyeTV is a feature-rich digital TV recorder with realtime MPEG-2 video encoding that allows you to watch, record and edit your favorite TV shows and movies directly on your Mac. Automatically schedule when to record shows, edit out the unwanted content, and then burn your recording to DVD. You can even pause and replay live TV, letting you watch what you want, when you want it. The combination of EyeTV and an Electronic Program Guide means you'll never miss a show.

I have not actually tried it myself, but apparently it has/will soon have HD support as well.

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another thing to note. A DIN slot (car radio standard size) is 2"x7", the mini mac is 2"x6.5".

If it had a radio faceplate and a laptop drive, this would be the best car stereo ever.

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[WaKall]

MythFrontend is already a first-class Mac application. You could set your minimac to autologin a user, start MythFrontend at login automatically for that user, and now you just need some form of remote control.

You'll still need a MythBackend around, with the TV capture card in it and running Linux. AFAIK, Myth recording is still Linux-only.

Myth Frontend for OSX is really slick. I run it on my G5 and it just usurps the position of wallpaper while I have AIM windows on top of it.

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[Garfunkel]

why not just get a $150 Xbox. That's what I'm going to do, it runs mythfrontend just fine.

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[pascalb3]

$20 DVI -> S-video/composite adapter.

Re:Small Form Factor PCs?

[Aqua_Geek]

I wonder if a laptop hard drive isn't already in there. It's awfully small to be shoving a full-size hard drive in. I guess we'll have to wait for someone to crack one of these babies open to know for sure...

But back on topic... All you would have to do is install a small, fold-out LCD (touch screen?) and you would not only have the ultimate car stereo but also the ultimate carputer. It could play DVDs, surf the internet, play music (you could download software to support any format), etc.

I can see some ipod shuffle problems though..

[Moustache N Tits]

ok, don't get me wrong. I love the look of the iPod Shuffle and I'm hitting the "refresh" button on the apple store until I can order one, but I do see a problem and I hope Apple has thought of this too... the iPod shuffle comes with a lanyard you can hang around your neck. Seems appropraite and I bet in 2 months everybody is wearing one of these... but the lanyard hooks to the cap that is meant to be removed. In a year, how likely is it that your ipod shuffle will just fall out of that cap after it's been pulled on and off so much!? Sure, the headphones will most likely be on, but this just seems like a really bad idea and I hope they addressed it...

MOD PARENT UP

[TheRaven64]

Idiot moderators don't know irony when they see it. The parent poster is paraphrasing CmdrTaco's comment on the launch of the iPod:

No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[timster]

I thought it was funny, and was just worried that somebody else would make the same joke before I did. And now everybody is telling me how great Macs are, when I'm just lucky that the Apple Store is overloaded or I might have tried to buy this before realizing that I don't have $500 until Friday.

I'm a little skeptical on how it looks in photos but I don't really care, and I hope I can convince my other family members to get a couple, as I think their needs would be much better served by this mini Mac than by Dells and the like.

Maybe later I'll think of an actual troll that will get moderated up anyway and post that, so that things will balance out.

Re:Well, I'm in

[the_rev_matt]

Mac mini sports a full-fledged ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB dedicated DDR SDRAM over an AGP 4x bus.

Max of 1920x1200 resolution

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[KevCo]

There are PS/2 to USB adapters. I use a similiar one to the link below with my iBook. http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=1501& sku=27225

Anyone see the Headhunter References?

[Rude Turnip]

If you go here:

http://www.apple.com/macmini/graphics.html, some of the paragraph headings are actually the lyrics to "Headhunter," a techno song by Front 242. With all this good news, I don't actually mind that it started snowing outside!

Re:No screen?

[pfoorion]

It seems to me that the target audience is for people who want to use this for their commute or a workout. I'm interested in how this is integrated with iTunes, meaning how easily can you just swap the playlist on the thing. I could see someone connecting this to their computer and downloading the playlist they want for that particular commute/workout. If you really NEED the ability to switch playlists a lot during the day, then you're likely to have more than the 100 songs and should look at a mini.

I like my 3rd gen iPod and like being able to pick my playlist to fit my mood while I'm on the subway but I usually just pick my playlist in the morning when I leave for work and then put the thing in my pocket, not taking it out again until I want to turn it off. For that I don't need a screen.

It'll be interesting to see if this takes off. It might just because it says iPod and costs $99.

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[Nasarius]

The Mac Mini looks like it's the thing for me. I've never owned a Mac in my life - I've used a few in my time

Same here. I'm very very tempted to go out and buy one right now. Sounds like a perfect portable desktop or server. It's actually cheaper than a similar mini-ITX box. I never really cared about the iPod or the big displays or the software...this is...*jaw drop*.

Re:macteens blogged the whole thing

[Ryan Stortz]

It looks like the Apple site has been updated aswell. With Nerd Porn (Pictures)!

Mac Mini & iPod Shuffle.

Damn you Apple, just when I convinced myself I didn't have enough money to buy a Mac.

best warning ever

[musikit]

"2. Do not eat iPod shuffle."

Re:Macs are USB *only*

[RocketScientist]

I've used the belkin and others. Never had one NOT work. 100%. Every time.

Say hello to *real* "Media Center" Machine

[danigiri]

(1) add a RAM stick BTO - cheapo
(2) add bluetooth BTO - cheapo
(3) add Wifi card BTO - cheapo
(4) sit unobtrusively to my way-cool existing TV and hook up A/V - nothin'
(5) hook to already existing wifi ADSL-powered network - nothin'
(6) bring in my already existing Sony-Ericsson Z600 - nothin'
(7) ...?
(8) Profit!

Lemme see what I get from this:

(A) iTunes playback
(B) VLC playback
(C) DVD playback
(D) UNIX development
(E) Surf web
(F) Check mail
(7) Photo slideshow
(8) Remote control via Z600 (see 2,6,A,B,C,E)
All in the living room sitting comfortably on the sofa (see D)! Yay!

"Do not eat iPod shuffle?"

[grungebox]

Anyone see this on the iPod Shuffle page at Apple? Read footnote 2:
Do not eat iPod shuffle.
It's a reference to this image at the Apple site that shows the relative size of the Shuffle. This is almost as good as the whole "Cookies are a Delicious Treat" thing or whatever it is in Firefox.

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[Ethelred Unraed]

Hopefully, it'll work with the PS/2 keyboards and mice that I've got lying around, if not then I suppose that I'll be shelling out for USB ones but that's no great loss.

Or just pick up a used Mac one on eBay for a song.

You can use Winders USB keyboards, but it's a little less confusing if you get a Mac one.

Cheers,

Ethelred

Re:Pages?

[EvilFrog]

The "i" in "iMac" originally stood for "internet," but has since become a designation of Apple's consumer products. None of Apple's product geared towards the professional market have "i" in the name.

Consumer Mac: iMac
Professional Mac: PowerMac

Consumer Laptop: iBook
Professional Laptop: Powerbook

Consumer Video Editing: iMovie
Professional Video Editing: Final Cut Pro

You get the point.

What I find especially interesting is the release of a new consumer product (the Mac Mini) without "i" in the name. This may be a sign that Apple has decided to start moving away from the "i" naming scheme.

Of course, there's still iWork, which includes the aforementioned Pages. I'm guessing that iWork (which includes Pages and Keynote) is a predecessor to a larger professional suite we'll see in the future. That way when they start pushing Pages as a professional word processor it won't be stuck with the consumer name.

Do NOT Taunt iPod Shuffle

[SPYvSPY]

* Warning: Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to iPod Shuffle.

* Caution: iPod Shuffle may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.

* iPod Shuffle contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

* Do not use iPod Shuffle on concrete.

Discontinue use of iPod Shuffle if any of the following occurs:

* Itching

* Vertigo

* Dizziness

* Tingling in extremities

* Loss of balance or coordination

* Slurred speech

* Temporary blindness

* Profuse sweating

* Heart palpitations

If iPod Shuffle begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.

iPod Shuffle may stick to certain types of skin.

When not in use, iPod Shuffle should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration...

Failure to do so relieves the makers of iPod Shuffle, Apple Computer Corp. and its iCEO Steven P. Jobs, of any and all liability.

Ingredients of iPod Shuffle include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.

iPod Shuffle has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.

Do not taunt iPod Shuffle.

iPod Shuffle comes with a lifetime guarantee.

iPod Shuffle

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!

Re:$499 Mac? Damn

[lameland]

I think it might be a good idea BUT only if they certified the config for all of the clones. Sort of like the licensing deals the console manufacturers have with game developers, only in reverse. i.e. You only get to build machines that use our OS as long as we approve your designs and test your machines for compatibility. Apple has worked very hard for their place as one of the top industrial design companies in the world, they don't want some crappy clone machines ruining their image.

Re:iPod Shuffle: Worthless for Classical Music

[gobbo]

Playing these in random order will be a complete mess.

So don't. Just play your playlist the way you ordered it before uploading.

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[timmyf2371]

Out of curiousity I checked Apple's UK Store and it looks like the price for the basic model will be £339, which brings the Mac Mini into the commodity hardware price range.

Similar to yourself, I've also got the feeling I'll be a Mac owner pretty soon.

IPod Shuffle Small Print

[Varkias]

Anyone see the IPod Shuffle small print. LOL.

1. Music capacity is based on 4 minutes per song and 128Kbps AAC encoding.
2. Do not eat iPod shuffle.
3. Rechargeable batteries have a limited number of charge cycles and may eventually need to be replaced. Battery life and number of charge cycles vary by use and settings. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information.
4. Some computers require either the optional iPod shuffle Dock or a USB cable extender (sold separately).

Re:$499 Mac? Damn

[spencerogden]

After selling 10 million iPods (jesus christmas!) I don't think they are moving away from hardware.

What I see more focus on hardware design, the exact opposite of the clone fiasco. They are getting, and supporting, higher margins on their hardware because of their design engineering. No other MP3 player looks or feels as good as the iPod. The Mini looks looks like another homerun, their first small form factor PC and its uniquely Apple and great looking.

Apple's focus has shifted to perfecting the Human-Computer interface. This is what it was all about originally. They are focusing on the look and feel of products, both hardware and software.

Get the details right, and they will come.

Proof of the iPod dominance in the marketplace

[amichalo]

An interesting note from MacWorld is something Jobs said about the iPod Mini.

Before the iPod Mini was released, the flash player market was double what it is today. That means the iPod Mini did NOT canibalize hard drive player/iPod sales but instead got Flash player buyers to spend more money on buying a Mini and claimed the upper end of the Flash Player market.

This means the iPod Shuffle is being sent in to sweep up the low end market where people are buying $49 128 MB players.

Portable

[slapout]

You know, I'm wondering something. I wonder if they made this thing so small to encourge people to take it out and show it off. Want to tell you friends about your new Mac? Just take it over to their house and plug it in to their monitor. Wanna convince the boss that it could be a solution to some of your problems? Take it to work and plug it in!

One reason for no screen on iPod Shuffle

[saddino]

As Jobs noted, the iPod Mini took a nice chunk out of the Flash MP3 player market and thus the Shuffle is meant to take the remainder (low end). However, if the Shuffle were to have a screen (and thus be fully functional) it would almost certainly eat into Mini sales. Thus, the lack of screen is not only a design (elegant) and engineering (fewer parts) triumph, but also a marketing coup (increase marketshare without cannabalizing sales). Impressive.

iWant iWant iWant!

[Yaztromo]

It's all so beautiful...[sniff].

Okay, the new Mac Mini is going to be perfect for my mother. It's certainly going onto the "iWant List".

iLife 05 and iWork I'm going to put on order today (if I can get through to the Apple Store -- that's for /.'ing Apple everyone ;) ).

Damn. I had prepared myself this morning to find out that maybe one of the rumours was true, but all of the major rumours turned out to be true. Joy oh joy! It's like having another Christmas all over again :).

Please allow me to point one last thing out: to all of those here (and elsewhere) who complained that Macs were too expensive, it's now time to put up or shut up. Buy the new Mac Mini, or never speak of the purported high cost of Apple hardware again.

Yaz.

Re:iWant iWant iWant!

[Moofie]

If Apple's OS doesn't appeal to you, don't buy it. If you're happy with your Dell, go that route.

Apple just destroyed all the economic objections to Mac ownership. They just. Don't. Exist. Anymore.

Some people wouldn't buy a Mac if it came with a free steveJob. (that's a blowjob from Steve Jobs) The rest of us are delighted with this new piece of hardware.

Re:iWant iWant iWant!

[JamieF]

If all you want to do is look at your hardware and run benchmarks (a.k.a. 3D FPS games that bore anyone over 12 years old), that's great.

Watch the keynote and look at the software. Apple is not trying to make a Windows PC that looks nice. They're making software too, and leading the pack in many categories.

Most people actually want to accomplish tasks with their computers, and a few percentage points in hardware price/performance don't make nearly as much difference as better usability (which is measured in units of time to accomplish a specific task).

But, if you just like to spend your whole day messing around with your computer instead of getting anything done, by all means, avoid Macs.

Already is!

[Pfhor]

Called KeySpan, Express Remote.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html

USB -> IR remote, been around for ages, i love it.

/usr/include/sys/mac/errno.h

[kzinti]

E_NOMEM not enough memory
E_NOTDIR not a directory
E_ACCES permission denied
E_NOENT no such entry
E_BOOM head exploded

No free hands from Apple

[dogmatixpsych]

From the Mac mini website: "Keyboard, iPod mini, dock, hands, AirPort, Bluetooth and PC sold separately." Of course you have to see the page http://www.apple.com/macmini/design.html to appreciate the statement. With this and the not eating the new iPod, it looks like someone at Apple has a sense of humor.

All Macs Come with an OS

[Dragonfly]

So yes, $499 includes the latest version of Mac OS X.

As a side note, all Apple servers include a copy of OS X Server UNLIMITED Client. Factor that in every time you compare a Windows Server to an XServe!

Mac Mini == New Commodore 64?

[LWATCDR]

Frankly at this price point it could be the New Commodre 64. The computer that every kid has. Unless you had an Atari. Will games soon follow. And what about schools? if they have old keyboards and monitors they could "upgrade" the the mac mini for cheap. Wonder what apple will sell them to schools for? Not to mention the lack of spyware, virus, and other nasties floating around your average school computer lab.

Perennial red herring, you mean

[ianscot]

they've essentially nipped that perennial argument in the bud.

"In the bud"? More like years after it went to seed. How long has it been since Mac OS had any limitation on the use of two-button mice?

I agree, they threw that line in there to address it with the people who weren't paying attention. But the "argument" here hasn't been a meaningful point since... I can't think when... How old is the Kensington Turbomouse line?

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[mikeplokta]

It's £339 including VAT. At today's exchange rates, US$499 + 17.5% is £311, so they're not screwing us too badly.

Many people only need word processing

[soullessbastard]

Disclaimer: I am a developer of OpenOffice.org for Mac OS X and a founder of the NeoOffice project

No, the new iWork is definitely not a replacement for the old AppleWorks/ClarisWorks suite. AppleWorks really did try to do a "kitchen sink" approach as well as give you the flexibilty to embed one type of document in another. I really suspect their decision to focus on word processing is very good from a market driven perspective.

Most people tend to want to be able to write simple letters on their computer. TextEdit could do this, of course, and for simple tasks I do know people who use it. The next class of users is advanced home and entry-level business personnel. Think of the kind of people that want to make a flyer advertising a store event or the people making a newsletter for their little league. These are the exact target audience for Pages.

Pages comes with 40 templates that are customizable in the sense you can add in your own graphics easily to creat new templates (I think...). This makes it easy to create newsletters, corporate letterhead, and the like. The transparency allows for easy watermarking of documents.

Pages will also probably be sufficient for opening most Word documents generated by these similar types of users, home or small business users who have Word pre-installed on their Windows box and use the DOC format to e-mail their newsletters as attachments. In that respect it's great to have a similar pre-installed option available on the Mac that can support that market segment.

Whether they will target spreadsheets and database connectivity in the future is still up for speculation. After all, even Claris killed its own standalone spreadsheet application (Resolve) by selling it off to C&G. For users who want an integrated suite full featured spreadsheets, charting, macros, database connectivity and the like, there's only a few remainingplayers in the Mac market: Microsoft Office, NeoOffice/J (OpenOffice.org, but without the X11), ThinkFree, and Mariner. I don't think Apple's about to compete with Microsoft Office anytime soon as they use Office to help sell the platform. The death of AppleWorks now leaves us open source guys as one of the remaining strongest office suite competitors on the platform.

ed

Re:Many people only need word processing

[tyrione]

You are aware that some of the developers who wrote Lighthouse Design's Office Suite of products are responsible for Keynote and Pages, right?

Expect these apps and more to creep in and expand in capabilities rather rapidly.

All memorable NeXT applications were never the Kitchen Sink. They believed in Services and leveraging Cocoa from the Developer Community to grow for everyone.

Re:I would have never believed

[adzoox]

"Built in blue tooth. Built in airport."

Umm - built in for an extra $139 you mean.

These don't come standard. Neither does it come with a keyboard or mouse or monitor.

not $500, $575 -- remember the ram

[Heisenbug]

OK, all you folks who are about to get your first Mac -- yes, do it, it's worth it. But listen, OS X just won't be happy with 256MB of RAM. Throw in another $75 and get 512.

Apple loves overcharging for ram. I don't know why, and it bugs me, so normally I upgrade from a third party right after I get a new computer. That isn't an option here, so just bite the bullet and do it. Otherwise, we're all going to be back here in a month complaining about how slow the mini is, and no one wants that.

Re:not $500, $575 -- remember the ram

[kuwan]

Yep

Here's the WoW system requirements:

Mac® System OS X 10.3.5 OS:
933 MHz or higher G4 or G5 processor
512 MB RAM or higher; DDR RAM recommended
ATI or NVIDIA video hardware with 32 MB VRAM or more
4 GB or more of available hard drive space
MacOS X 10.3.5 or newer
56k or higher modem with an Internet connection

Since the cheapest Mac Mini has a 1.25 GHz processor and ATI Radeon 9200 with 32MB of VRAM then you should be set. Though since it only comes with 256 MB of RAM you'll probably need to upgrade to 512 MB, but you were going to do that anyway, right? Actually, you were going to max it out at 1 GB of RAM, right? ;)
--
It works.
Free Flat Screens | Free iPod Photo

inside the Mac mini

[minus_273]

if you want to see what the insides look like check this. you can clearly see that something like the RAM are user serviceable.

You miss the point

[Microlith]

That Gateway is huge, comparatively. And it comes with Windows.

Think of it as a G4 iBook in a small case, designed for desktop use. For $499 I get a more or less feature complete Apple Macintosh with OS X on it, ready to use whatever hardware I already have (for input and display.)

With that other one you'd have to either use Windows or fight to get a useable Linux install.

Re:No screen?

[AKnightCowboy]

I should add that it's possible to have it play songs in a pre-set order, which you would define from within iTunes. You would just need to memorize the order.

That's pretty lame though. How hard is it to add in a cheap $5 LCD display like you find on other MP3 players that size?

cluster? Funny, but...

[javaxman]

how easy/difficult would it be to cluster these things a la Virginia Tech's supercomputer

A question so funny, I feel compelled to reply to it... not sure what that says about *me*, but anyway...

The Virginia Tech cluster is cabled together with some very, very high-end high-speed networking stuff, and the Mac mini ( note capitalization, like 'iPod mini' ) has standard 100-baseT ethernet, so one technically correct answer to your question, based on networking tech, would be 'can't be done'.

On the other hand, XGrid would run on this like any other OS X machine, so with a little ( fairly simple ) programming, you'd be clustering away in style. If you have some computation that's Altivec optimized, you'll probably even outperform a comparably priced cluster of Linux machines... though really, you *should* be able to put together a comprable no-graphics-card AMD boxen for ( a little, not counting labor ) cheaper, if a cluster of "whatever" cheap machines is really your goal.

A bunch of Mac minis could sure fit in a small space, though! I couldn't build a cheap PC that small. A cluster of Mac minis might not beat a G5 XServe cluster for price/performance, but it'd be cheap to set up!

Short ( ha ha ) answer: nobody is going to go about setting up a network of these for "real" high-performance computing... but a small college or even high school lab could be built pretty cheaply and XGrid applied to get it all hummin' on some distributed computing project and actually do some pretty impressive number-crunching... cheaply!

Mac Mini doesn't have an audio-in jack connector

[SilveRo_kun]

I wonder why the hell did they decide not to add a microphone jack... Maybe for aesthetical reasons, or are they planning on selling USB mikes?

Re:No screen?

[sydsavage]

What does this thing have over all the other cheapo flash players?

An Apple logo?

No

[Rew190]

The Mac Mini is aimed clearly at PC users looking to switch, but featurewise it is a disappointment.

It has OS X and is an affordable Apple computer. That is all it needs to succeed in the market Apple is shooting for.

Hats off to Cringely

[HishamMuhammad]

Well, so the rumors in Bob Cringely's Predictions for 2005 were confirmed... From his article:

3) Apple will take a big risk in 2005. This could be in the form of a major acquisition. With almost $6 billion in cash, Steve Jobs hinted to a group of employees not long ago that he might want to buy something big, though I am at a loss right now for what that might be. Or Apple might decide to throw some of that cash into the box along with new computers by deliberately losing some money on each unit in order to buy market share.

We might see that as early as next week with the rumored introduction of an el-cheapo Mac without a display. The price for that box is supposed to be $499, which would give customers a box with processor, disk, memory, and OS into which you plug your current display, keyboard, and mouse. Given that this sounds a lot like AMD's new Personal Internet Communicator, which will sell for $185, there is probably plenty of profit left for Apple in a $499 price. But what if they priced it at $399 or even $349? Now make it $249, where I calculate they'd be losing $100 per unit. At $100 per unit, how many little Macs could they sell if Jobs is willing to spend $1 billion? TEN MILLION and Apple suddenly becomes the world's number one PC company. Think of it as a non-mobile iPod with computing capability. Think of the music sales it could spawn. Think of the iPod sales it would hurt (zero, because of the lack of mobility). Think of the more expensive Mac sales it would hurt (zero, because a Mac loyalist would only be interested in using this box as an EXTRA computer they would otherwise not have bought). Think of the extra application sales it would generate and especially the OS upgrade sales, which alone could pay back that $100. Think of the impact it would have on Windows sales (minus 10 million units). And if it doesn't work, Steve will still have $5 billion in cash with no measurable negative impact on the company. I think he'll do it.

So, $249 was a bit of wishful thinking in Bob's part... ;)

InDesign for the masses

[SuperKendall]

The great thing about Pages is that it sounds like InDesign for the rest of us - that is, something that can serve as a simple page layout program.

Word is not well suited to exact placement of anything really, and if the UI is really good it could win over a lot of people that traditionally have bought things like Print Shop Pro.

Re:Mac Mini Analysis

[Nephilium]

The Mac Mini is aimed clearly at PC users looking to switch, but featurewise it is a disappointment.

I think you've got the target audience wrong... I'm guessing that we're the target audience. Not the mainstream computer user; but rather, the geeks who keep computers working. I know that I wouldn't mind picking one of these up as a second box to play around with and learn OSX. I will say that you left out some information in your comparison:
1) OS Cost not factored in. Unless you're assuming that the Windows XP copy would be pirated (an understandable assumption)
2) The volume of the Mac Mini (that needs to be reversed, henceforth, it is the Mini-Mac) is listed in the description of the product (6.5" x 6.5" x 2"; 16.5 cm x 16.5 cm x 5.1 cm)

Pretty much, it's a cheap Mac that I'm interested in picking up... (especially since I need to learn how to fix my mom's new iBook G4...)
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
Nephilium

Where's the Power Supply?

[IdahoEv]

That power connector looks fairly nonstandard. Is it just to reduce socket size to leave room for the tiny connector panel, or does this thing have an external power supply like the cube did?

I can't find the answer on Apple's site.

Re:Where's the Power Supply?

[Oktober Sunset]

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/mac_mini_pc_ jan2005_480.html spin it round and you can see the power supply behind it.

Mac Mini Mod

[lsmeg]

OK, so how long till someone mods the Mac Mini to fit in one or two PC drive bays? :) Maybe route the usb through to the PC's usb headers, a custom bracket in the back of the PC for DVI... Hmm, that could actually work...

Does the XBox have...

[SuperKendall]

A firewire port that you can connect to your cable box to use as a DVR?

Bluetooth that you can use for a great wireless remote?

Ability to play songs from the #1 online music store?

Ability to print a picture you are watching on the TV from where you sit, or mail it to someone?

Real VGA/DVI output for people with projectors or advanced displays?

Prince Charles?

[EMiniShark]

is that you?

From the Mac mini site:

[chris_eineke]

"Keyboard, mouse, megaphone and display sold separately." :D

A number of points you miss:

[SuperKendall]

All of the points you got wrong are related to who is going to buy this in droves - people have have PC's who like iPods and are tired of the PC world.

In that world, the computer might be a little old - and slowed further by virus/spyware that have crept in. This computer will seem like a rocket.

Plus of course it's like 1/10 the size of a clunky Dell box, a plus for anyone.

The firewire port is also not a "slight win" for anyone that likes to play with video, which is all parents in the US.

It's a box for people that want to buy a computer without having to worry about a computer. It's for people who like iPods and wonder what else Apple can do. Shortly it may well be anyone looking for a high-end DVD player and PVR. It's basically a computer for anyone that has not got a PC yet, or wants something different - dare I say a PC for the rest of us?

My new media box...

[JakiChan]

This will be my new media box. My current media box is a full sized PowerMac 1GHZ sitting next to my 50" LCD RPTV and it's noisy and distracting. (And let's not forget the 250GB firewire drive with neon lights on top. Damn you Western Digital!) This will replace it easily and fit under the TV with the rest of the stereo gear. It lacks digital out, but I already have an M-Audio Sonica which works great. Now admittedly I'm not the target user (I mean you have to run SwitchRes X to get a good resolution on the TV) but this will look very nice next to the rest of the HT gear!

Re:Two things

[Phillup]

Like any good drug dealer... the first hit is free.

Don't forget music/ video editing

[acomj]

The give you imovie and garage band. Both very cool high quality prosumer apps.

The video editing is really quite good and garageband is a lot of fun( you can record into it and use drum/bass/keyboard loops.) and comes out quite professional. Good stuff.

Re:The one mouse button

[STrinity]

The one mouse button - any application designed well should only need one button.

So tell me, when I click a link in Firefox, should it behave as a left-click and open the page in the current tab, middle-click and open the page in a new tab, or right-click and open a context menu so I can save the link, bookmark it, or copy it to the clipboard?

One thing at a time.

[solios]

If you haven't noticed, we've just now gotten the word processor, after Keynote's been around for awhile. Give it some time. :P

Mac Mini network intrusion detection

[sellers]

Hrmm. These things seem perfect for setting in a remote closet and doing network intrusion or packet monitoring. They are realitively cheap, are all put together w/ OS (unlike the small boxes that you build yourself).

I wonder if this will get into the interprise market. Maybe Apple could sell a stripped down version w/ a hardened OS on it and a web or SSH interface for just such a purpose. I see this formfactor becoming more than just a headless Mac desktop....

Prediction: The MacMini will kill the eMac

[willutah]

Why would anyone buy the eMac now? It was the budget mac, but an all-in-one design is not an advantage. If your monitor dies on an eMac, it will cost a lot more to repair than simply swapping out the monitor of your MacMini.

Re:Prediction: The MacMini will kill the eMac

[Kyusaku Natsume]

The schools would still buying it:
- it's far harder to steal,
- the eMac sports a tempered (sp?) glass that protect the CRT-important for the safety of kids-
- is easy to keep clean
- the all-in-one design helps to keep the classroom's desks clener, only one power cord per machine.
- In the case of CRT failure, always the schools buy support contracts anyway (or sould, regardless of vendor).
- And last, the eMac uses common optical drives and HD, the two components of a computer more prone to failure or to need a upgrade.

store.apple.com

[Jeff Carr]

I pulled this off Netcraft, and thought it was kind of interesting.

store.apple.com

11 Jan 2005, Solaris, Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3
05 Jan 2005, MacOSX, Apache/1.3.27 (Darwin)
05 Jan 2005, MacOSX, Apache/1.3.27 (Darwin)
04 Jan 2005, Solaris 8, Apache/1.3.27 (Darwin)

I wonder whether they switched before or after they got nailed today?

cheap memory upgrade by apple

[Me2005]

THere is a way to do it at Crucial's prices when you go to your local Apple Store to buy your Mac Mini/Powerbook/G5/etc... just take a printout with the cheapest memory you found online and Apple will price match it (I got a powerbook with 512 Mbs, in-store price-matched)

Full-Blown Comparison vs. Dell Dimension 2400

[BlueDjinn]

I went with a $600 shootout instead of $500 to make sure that some obvious add-ons were included with each model, but the new Mac mini holds up surprisingly well!!

$600 Desktop Apple/Dell System Shootout

Re:The one mouse button

[jfw25]

Because the Firefox developers followed the Mac user interface guidelines on the Mac version, when you click a link in Firefox with a one-button mouse, it performs the action most commonly expected -- open the page in the current tab. If you click AND HOLD, or if you press the control key, it brings up a contextual menu which offers you a wealth of other choices (new window, new tab, download, bookmark, ...).

Many people find the hold-down-one-button paradigm to be easier to learn and use than multiple buttons. Other people find having multiple buttons easier to learn than multiple actions with the same button. Curse Apple for trying to make their computers useful to both kinds of users!

No pretty pictures there

[mblase]

The thing that struck me while reading about iWork Pages was that they're really emphasizing the "great design, real easy" aspect of it, same as iLife always has. MS Word is about making great business documents; Pages is about making great-looking newsletters.

Additionally, Apple's got a long way to go before they can overtake MS in the business environment. Spreadsheets are mainly a business tool. Not much room in an Excel document for photos or sophisticated one-click text wrapping. (Yes, I know some people abuse Excel for documents it was never meant to process.) Home users who aren't bring their work home with them don't have much use for spreadsheets. Some, sure, but not much.

I don't think Apple is marketing iWork as an MS Office replacement--yet. There's too much functionality there for Apple to try and match it, and much of it is business-only. What they can do is take Office, pick out the multimedia-heavy apps, and make them prettier and easier to use.

Re:One last question before I buy the mac mini

[SamSeaborn]

If you get an Apple keyboard, it has two USB ports on it. Plug your camera in there.

Sam

Also helps laptop users

[SuperKendall]

Do not forget that every Apple laptop sold has only a trackpad and single button. By having developers target a UI that can work well with one button and keyboard chording, it makes life much easier for laptop users.

I have always found it awkward to use right mouse buttons on Windows laptops.

Set top box?

[zoltamatron]

Could the MiniMac revive the idea of the set top box? This thing is smaller than a DVD player and does a hellova lot more. Hook it right up to your TV and edit movies, play games, surf the net, watch slideshows, play DVDs, listen to music, etc. all right at your entertainment center. Maybe this box will serve a dual purpose: a cheap computer for PC switchers and an entertainment hub for your living room?

Can anybody tell if there is an infared port on this thing? I guess you don't really need it with bluetooth.....

The Real Birth of Automobile Computing

[jmenon]

"Another thing to note. A DIN slot (car radio standard size) is 2"x7", the mini mac is 2"x6.5"."

Combine that with the integration of the iPod with additional car models--Volvo, Nissan, and Mercedes Benz were mentioned today--and you reach an inescapable conclusion: Apple is set to blow away the market for in-car computing.

I was just in a taxi the other day here in Como, Italy, where I live, and the driver had a brand new navigation computer, complete with TV and DVD capabilities. Of course, car navigation computers are not new in Europe, providing GPS and all kinds of other in-car services. I have a friend living in Switzerland who had to drive to Luxembourg for work once a week, and he is so dependent on his in-car navigation system that once when it crashed, he couldn't find his way back home.

Think about it. It would take Apple only a baby step or two with the new Mac Mini to completely take over this market. Installing a car navigation system can cost you thousands of dollars, but Apple's core component would only cost you $499.

Imagine not only being able to plan a trip, but to have your kids do it on your desktop Mac, and then beam the instructions through AirPort to your car in the driveway. Car media centre? No problem, with a Bluetooth keyboard and a screen attached to your stereo slot. Or what about a snap-on interface connected to the USB and video-out ports on the back of the Mac Mini? But the greatest potential lies in the business uses of a car that is fitted as a fully-capable mobile office for less than a thousand bucks: the term "working remotely" takes on a whole new meaning.

Now you can be serious about taking your work to the beach.

One Word:

[SPYvSPY]

DUH!

Re:MythTV front end box?

[dowobeha]

What I want to know is, how well would the Mac Mini work for MythTV? I know MythTV on OS X isn't quite ready for prime time yet, but what about running Linux on it instead?

As long as the optional TV-out adapter still works in Linux, I don't see why it wouldn't work just fine.

CmdrTaco, is that you?

[rjung2k]

This ipod shuffle really is just a "me too" product.

Can we quote you for next year's "iPod shuffle is a runaway smash hit" retrospective?

Re:ANOTHER SHAMELESS MARKETING PLOY FROM APPLE

[INeededALogin]

"It is better to remain quiet and risk being thought an idiot
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

You know, spell checker is global in OS X.

Re:$499 Mac? Damn

[WiggyWack]

I'm begining to get the feeling that Steve Jobs might be trying to reposition Apple. Hardware is a mugs game, after all.

Yeah, everyone buys the iPod for the software.

Apple is just doing a great job of integrating hardware and software. They do both. It amazes me how many people I hear say that Apple must open their hardware to cloners and become a software company like MS to be successful.

Euro screw

[illustir]

I don't get it. The listed price for the mini is €499.

$499 should be something more like €380. (€499 is $654). Source: www.xe.com .

I'm a bit tired getting screwed and seeing Americans eat all those free lunches.

Strange port choices

[dfl]

I don't get the Apple port choices -- which really matters on a machine that isn't easily moddable. Where are the audio IN ports? Also, the mini-plug audio out is a mistake. There's a market for hard-disk audio recorders, and an 80GB mini running iTunes would pretty much own it IF it had real audio ports. Hey Apple: the Yamaha recorder / burner sells for $799, and what has it got that the mini doesn't, except the expected digital and analog in and out? http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/CDRHD130 0.htm

Is there a third-party sound processor that plugs into the USB?

BTW the video out doesn't bother me so much, since a converter from DVI/VGA to component video should be cheap and lossless.

Re:Strange port choices

[Pfhor]

Converter from DVI to VGA is provided with the machine, for $20 you can get svideo/composite out adapter that plugs into DVI port, but you can't have both (moniter and tv). DVI will plug directly into HD TV.

There are numerous audio solutions, check the accessories page.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/accessories.html

Instead of raising the price by added things that not everyone needed (remember, no monitor, keyboard, or mouse), apple went bare minimum, but gave you the ability to add functionality through USB /Firewire.

Re:Strange port choices

[dfl]

Thanks for the link. The M-Audio Transit does what I was thinking of. So that's good news. But...

I appreciate the fact that Apple is trying to keep their margin up (retail price down), but if I get a macmini, I'm not going to be happy to pay $99 for digital audio in/out ports. And there's nothing elegant about this solution: attaching an additional sound card connected to the USB bus. Apple saves almost a dollar by not soldering those ports onto their sound card, it is true. But Bill Gates is the one who profits, I think. 'Cause this kinda thing doesn't happen in Wintel land.

The keyboard / mouse / monitor thing is a different issue altogether -- leaving off extras is fine because many people want to use a brand or design of their own choice. If Apple wanted to let me choose my own sound card, I'd be thrilled. Instead they offer me the equivalent of a built-in 5-inch CRT.

The path of money

[SuperKendall]

But there are many ways to achieve an end. Just because Microsoft took the path of generally screwing people over does not make it a requirement. IBM is behaving quite well nowadays, and is generally as big as Microsoft.

The other thing is that Apple, as a company, has seen the power of basing things on top of Open Source stuff. Lots of quality software without a huge engineering expenditure. Look at how because they do not have to work on OS internals as much, they are able to get truly interesting higher level features added to the OS with a smaller development staff!! While Microsoft pushes WinFS out another few years, Tiger is getting Spotlight and CoreData for real early this year.

Apple has a huge financial incentive to keep doing what they are doing, because it is working and making them money.

Re:Never owned a Mac in my life but I'm getting on

[lunartik]

I'll have a nice little toy that'll give me some first-hand experience of MacOS 10.4 plus my girlfriend will have a easy-to-use machine that she can play with when I'm hogging my PC.

Believe me, she'll hardly get to use it. These things have a way of sucking you in.

Re:MythTV Frontend

[Psykechan]

There is a very functional MythTV frontend for OSX already.

Backend is another story but the frontend is working great. I think this would be great to sit underneath a Gamecube and just use a Bluetooth remote to operate it. Mmmmmm...

On the Mac Mini

[Qbertino]

Steve Jobs hits often and rarely misses. This new stunt is so right on. Since the days he came back to apple and rescued the lot with his candy flavoured who-the-fuck-still-lets-his-users-adjust-a-screen macs he's been on the road to king of the common appliance computer. Everything a half-way tech savy computer user would think of as "gee, this would be nice to have", he comes up with it 2 years later and at least 5 years ahead of everybody else. OS X has fully matured, is solidly welded onto a 100% percent predictable hardware base, is based on 30 years of Unix OS experience with 10 years in the OSS training camp, is practically virus and exploit free and comes with all the goodies anybody would want with a computer an the ability to upgrade the one or other OSS speciality needed in 5 minutes flat.
Bottom line:
I couldn't have done any better, and probably wouldn't have (the meager 128 Megs are probably a teeth gritting compromise they had to swallow, to hone costs and margin-leak).
As of today, I bet all my money on Apple and my pocket cash on OSS. This is the first industry strength 20 inch stainless steel nail in a long series of nails in the coffin of Microsoft and the weedy mess of proprietary x86 crappiness and it's shortcomings. Mark my word.

Mac mini memory is not customer installable.

[Xenex]

* if you choose to upgrade the RAM on your own, you'll pretty much want to drop in 1 GB (+/- $180 at current prices; Apple wants $425) and be done with it. Feed the stock 256MB DIMM to your dog.

And void your warranty; memory is not a customer installable part in the Mac mini.

the Mac mini as a luggable?

[sacrilicious]

Because portable computers wear out so quickly, I've been trying to come up with a realistic system that I could carry from place to place, comprised of parts that are cheaper than a portable. I'm willing to make the compromise of having to plug in to standard AC. Given that, the mac mini seems like a nicely sized cpu/disk combo at a price I'd be willing to pay. I can use a foldable portable keyboard, no problem. Now the part I haven't been able to figure out: what screen could I use? Small screen is perfectly fine. Sometimes I imagine using some pda screen, like a zaurus running vnc logged in over wireless, but I feel it should be possible to undercut the price/size performance of a zaurus when all I need is a screen itself. Anyone know of cheap, small screens that a person can buy a la carte?

Re:$499 Mac? Damn

[Scudsucker]

The Mini looks looks like another homerun, their first small form factor PC

Don't forget the Cube. The difference between the Mini and the Cube is that the Cube used expensive parts while the Mini probably uses compenents from the iBook line. Oh, and the Cube went for $1300 more than the Mini, IIRC, and also did not come with a monitor.

Dude,little kids are going to growup on this ship!

[KrazzeeKooter]

Think about this, what computer is "safe" enough and cool enough and cheap enough to buy for your kid.

What computer is going to sit in a kids bedroom. What can you throw a few bucks at without worrying to much about where it's going to be in a year... without worrying about viruses, without worrying about maintence. Something your kid can IM on, send email to their friends, play with photos and video, do their homework, watch a movie. What computer can give a reasonable amount of control to the parent and freedom to the kid? What computer not only will look good in every kids room in america but is safe enough to go in every kids room in america.

You might need to disable software downloads and get some nanny blocker software on the web browser, but that's it! I think you're looking at the first computer that can and will make it into the rooms of every kid in america.

It's got the garage band and all the editing software you need for music, photo and video. It can come with the .mac account, with web hosting, and the email, the blogging software. It can even burn DVDs at $599. Throw in the cheap digital still/video camera, wireless keyboard and mouse, a nice little flat pannel, don't forget the iPod Shiffle. What about a Music Store allowance! Not all at one time, a birthday here, christmas, whenever. We're still talking well under a grand.

Dude kids are going to grow up on this shit the way we grew up on atari and nintendo and I'm fuscking jealous!

God Dammit!

[OS24Ever]

I kept telling myself.

I don't need one.

I Don't need one. I just got a 20" iMac G5.

I Don't need one, my kid uses my old 15" iMac 800MHz

I don't need one.

Then you got to go and post a damn reason I need one now!!

For all those "just buy a Shuttle"...

[Whatsmynickname]

I was seriously looking at building a Shuttle, but let's compare it to the Mac Mini

For the Shuttle, you can either buy a complete system from them and spend twice as much or build a system. Don't forget the CPU. And the RAM, and the hard drive, and the DVD drive. At this point, it's about the same cost as a base Mac Mini.

Even if you add the Mac Mini DVD burner, larger hard drive and extra RAM, you're still not saving much with the Shuttle. I'm not even going to mention the operating system and having to set it all up...

Please don't counter with a el cheapo price quote from some other scum dealer either, just Newegg... If you counter, make sure it has the same features also...

Or buy the Mac Mini, with the OS installed, plug it in, and have it up and running.

The mini has a DVI output for an HDTV monitor and Firewire for either DV or cable box (MPEG-TS) input. I personally think the Mini price is great for what you get. Especially if you want it in your living room next to your HDTV as a Media Center...

Re:Imagine if Apple got serious about Media PC.

[Malic]

As I've been saying all day, the Mac Mini is just a bluetooth remote and an iLife application away from being a PVR with content served from a not-yet-but-soon iTMS. That's iTV Movie Store.

Look for it at MacExpo 2006.

mini vs. shuttle, the numbers...

[cwg_at_opc]

i decided to build up a shuttle with similar capabilities(using newegg):

Shuttle XPC Model SN41G2V3 - Item#N82E16856101460 $269.00

AMD Mobile Athlon XP 2500+ - Item#N82E16819103401 $88.00

Geil 512MB(256MBx2) - Item#N82E16820144309 $80.00

Western Digital 80GB - Item#N82E16822144122 $60.33

NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW - Item#N82E16827152037 $67.99

Logitech diNovo Cordless - Item#N82E16823126166 $125.00

NETGEAR Dual Band Wireless PCI - Item#N82E16833122126 $71.99

Innocom V.92/56KData/Fax/voice Modem - Item#N82E16825100103 $21.50

ATI RADEON 9200 128MB DDR - Item#N82E16814102287 $93.50

Windows XP Media Center 2005 - Item#N82E16832102311 $131.00

Office Small Business 2003 - Item#N82E16837116148 $331.00

Intuit Quicken 2005 Basic - Item#N82E16832109137 $36.00
total: $1,374.81

the mac is a BTO, added BT, AP, BT-keyboard and mouse

Mac mini 1.42GHz Accessory kit
Internal Bluetooth + AirPort Extreme Card
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
56K v.92 Modem
512MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
Mac OS X - U.S. English - P/N: Z0B8 $903.00

Wireless Keyboard & Mouse Set - P/N: B9396LL/A $99.00

Office 2004 for Mac - P/N: T9189LL/A $399.95
total: $1,401.95

differences for the shuttle:
DVD burner(the only silver ones were 16x).
Modem(has to be external if you want PCI-802.11a/b/g)

summary:
shuttle pluses
- you can build it yourself
- you can upgrade it yourself
- games(!)
shuttle minuses
- you can build it yourself
- you can upgrade it yourself
- Windows
- finding drivers, updating patches
- fan noise

mac mini pluses
- its very small
- its very quiet
- it looks nicer(subjective)
- the software is preinstalled
- there's more software included(appleworks, iLife, garage band, iMovie, iDVD)
mac mini minuses
- you can't upgrade it
- you can't make it faster(see previous)
- it's easy to steal(not showing up in any offices anytime soon)
- games :-( (that would be a LACK of games, although that's changing, slowly)

so once you've added up all the stuff you need to match the mini, you end up darn near close;
a $27.14 difference in favor of the Shuttle.

Re:mini vs. shuttle, the numbers...

[iroll]

Does the shuttle come with a standard laptop security slot, so that it can be locked down? Mini does, and since most of that kind of crime is crimes of convinience.... there goes that arguement :D

Re:mini vs. shuttle, the numbers...

[oscast]

You (like every other person on the web that has compared prices) is mitigating the cost of iLife on the PC. If you're going to compare them across the board, you need to find matches for iMovie, iDVD and Garageband for the PC. I've done the comparison and found that comparable products for Windows will set you back an additional $250 - $300.

So in reality, the price difference is $222.86 (conservative) in favor of the Mac mini.

Mini: geektool & custom applications platform

[gg510]

I haven't seen this mentioned so far:

Think of all the instances where you have a customer who needs an inexpensive processor/controller similar to an industrial PC, or an "adjunct device" to add functionality to another system.

For example infrastructure in commercial buildings (HVAC control, energy-systems control, security & access control) and residential equivalents, various types of process-control, science lab applications, etc. All of those industrial use-cases that currently tend to default to Windows machines (which in turn go buggy when some nitwit pops in a CD full of infected games they downloaded) or where you want to (or have to) scratchbuild a machine to run an open-source OS.

In the past you'd assemble a PC from parts (about $250), compile and/or load your preferred OS, test & debug, etc. (a few hours' labor, often non-billable time). Then you load your custom apps and connect it to (whatever) at the customer's site.

Depending on how you value your labor, the Mini ends up being the same or lower cost than the custom-built PC by the time you're done. A more profitable way to use your time and your customers' money than troubleshooting, debugging, or fixing stuff that breaks.

Think of it as a compact, inexpensive BSD machine, with a clean user-interface, that can be stacked, racked, or wall-mounted if need be. A standard little box you can get off-the-shelf from a local supplier, load your custom apps, install quickly, and never have to worry about. Less hassles, more time to develop new apps and bring in new business.

I think the Mini is going to become a regular part of the geek toolkit immediately, and we're going to see these things popping up in plenty of (previously) unexpected places.

Problem for PC iPod owners switching

[Faithman2k]

When you change your iPod from PC to Mac it will delete all of the songs you've put on it.

I've had iPodRip recommended to me as a good solution. You can find it on the link below

http://www.thelittleappfactory.com/application.php ?app=iPodRip

Re:OS X Server, anyone?

[phillymjs]

For $500, the miniMac is just right for use as a local network server.

Agreed. The subscribers on the Mac home automation mailing list I belong to are absolutely drooling over the possibilities the Mac mini presents. When I migrate my home servers to OS X, the home automation controller duties were going to be taken up by my old Quicksilver 733 that was replaced by my G5-- but now I may just sell it on eBay and pick up a mini. And I'd better get the Quicksilver listed fast, because used Mac prices are probably gonna take a hit once the mini becomes readily available.

~Philly

Johnathan Schwartz is COO of Sun

[soullessbastard]

Definitely I'm aware. There's a reason why some slack COO (or whatever title he has now) of Sun wouldn't open source the source code for the old Lighthouse suite of apps (Create and friends, I understand why FrameMaker couldn't be licensed even though I wish it was). And Schwartz is even COO or whatever other title of the week he has. Sun should own the Lighthouse source code from their buyout in the previous age of this world, but that code has just magically disappeared despite a number of folks asking if they could open source that instead of the non-native OOo code.

[tinfoilhat]Sun may very well be the new cloakroom wheeling-and-dealing Satan of our time![/tinfoilhat]

ed

Re:Tiger upgrade price?

[hunterx11]

If an OS upgrade comes out within a certain timespan of getting a new Mac, you can get it for $20. I did.

keynote 2 is a *real* improvement

[wdebruij]

with more than 2100 posts already chances are noone is going to read this. Who cares, I'll just listen to myself then.

The presentation app, keynote, appears to be a godsend. It has a number of features that I always wanted (but was too lazy to code):

- a dual-monitor setup so that you can have a presentation on the beamer and an overview on your laptop. Do modern laptops carry dual-out, by the way?

- a timer to go with your overview page. The days that I have skipped content just to fit the deadline are nearly over. Finally.

however, there is one feature that I'm still missing. This one is especially useful for technical design, etc: construct individual slides from `master' images that are possibly larger than the slides. In a CAD environment it means flying into a detail of your design.

In general this technique should lead to a more natural progression from slide to slide. Perhaps it can be generalized even. I'm thinking along the lines of first creating a story and only afterwards chopping it up into bytesize chunks. The aforementioned design-issue is just an example. Read "presenting to win" by Weissman (yeah, horrible title) for more useful comments on holding presentations.

Hands sold separately

[10Ghz]

The Mini's design-page has a following disclaimer at the bottom:

Keyboard, iPod mini, dock, hands, AirPort, Bluetooth and PC sold separately.

uh, OK. Are the hands a BTO-option?

Re:That is complete nonsense.

[CaptDeuce]

After 10+ years of not working with Apple's machines professionaly I would have expected that they would have wisened up on this particular aspect, but alas, they have not.

Yes, Apple has wised up; happened quite a while ago. This has been mentioned at a few sites (here's one: http://www.macintouch.com/mwsf2005notebook.html) but merely installing RAM (or whatever) in your Mac doesn't void your warranty -- breaking your Mac in the process does. This has been Apple's policy for over ten years.

The vast majority of product warranties, regardless of product type, only protect against defects in design or manufacturing. Manufacturers routinely discourage consumer fixes by encouraging all servicing be done by qualified technichians. Apple is hardly special.

Re:Beowulf cluster !!

[guuyuk]

Yes, a Beowulf cluster, without taking up a Grendel worth of space...

Re:Imagine if Apple got serious about Media PC.

[guidryp]

USB Audio: Kludgy and for a price higher than an Nforce motherboard with built in Digital out(I have one; it is great).

Cute case only gets it so far. In this day everything should have built in digital Audio out. I won't buy a computer that doesn't have it.

This was my whole point in stating there should be another model better suited to being a Media PC.

With Apples great interface design team making a usable pvr/player SW and more A/V IO they could make a Media PC that leaves the XPC media PC's in the dust. While nice the mini isn't quite up to that task.

Re:No screen?

[Pentomino]

Well, the keynote did a good job of explaining the rationale.

What do other Flash players have in common, he asked aloud, as a picture of some amorphous no-name flash player loomed behind him. And the four bullet points read:

• Tiny screen that's too small to read
• Tiny hard-to-press buttons
• Torturous user interface
• Takes disposable AAA batteries, which can cost you $100 per year (unless you use NiMH like I do.)

The iPod Shuffle addresses all of these problems. First, they lose the screen. Second, they reduce the buttons to something you can operate by touch. Third, they provide visual feedback in the form of strategically-placed LED's. And finally, they let you charge it with USB.

Also, iTunes has an AutoFill feature that'll dump a playlist to it right away.

Looks like a pretty competitive product.

Re:That is complete nonsense.

[andreyw]

They wisened up in the other sense too... my UMAX dual 604e PowerMac uses buffered EDO/FPM 5-Volt DIMMs. Most computer hardware of that age used 3.3v DIMMs, with the exception of some intel server mobos and Sun (maybe HP/SGI too?) workstations. Now Apple uses standard DDR memory. I'd rather they stuck with SCSI drives like they did in the past, but IDE is significantly cheaper and more ubiquitous.