Nero Burning for Linux

ceasol writes "The German company Nero, developers of the award-winning Nero Burning ROM suite for Windows, now release a free version for Linux called NeroLINUX a CD/DVD Burning Software, and include many features from the Windows version. This software is proprietary but free if you registered." The OEM versions of Nero that come with many CD burners aren't sufficient, though; NeroLINUX is free-as-in-beer only if you've registered "a full version of Nero software version 6 or higher," or a "retail version or downloaded version."

Comments

Useless

[Pan T. Hose]

How is it better than cdrdao?

Re:Useless

[KarmaMB84]

Other than the fact that you don't have to type cryptic commands?

Re:Useless

[bird603568]

I hope its better than k3b

Re:Useless

[ari_j]

You have to remember - there are three kinds of Linux users. Those who want to keep usability down to try to impress themselves by using it, those who want to increase usability so that their grandmothers can use it, and your grandmother. The majority of users are not members of the first group. Incidentally, the majority of users also do not assume a moniker derived from women's clothing.

Re:Useless

[elf-fire]

It adds a choice. And Linux is all about choices, is not it? I hope it is part of a trend. You do not have to use it. K3B is fine for me for example. But you could, if you want to.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Why cryptic? The man page explains everything. OTOH, I find icons cryptic sometimes. What if I can't understand them? Explain it with even more pictures? Use a comic strip?

Re:Useless

[bird603568]

so you mean slackware/gentoo users; suse/linspire users; and other distro users?

Re:Useless

[LittleLebowskiUrbanA]

That was not a troll and the mod was on crack.

Re:Useless

[KiloByte]

Well, the very first time I burned a CD, it took me way less time to get mkisofs to do what I want and then burn it than it takes me every time I see a new version of Nero.

A well-thought CLI program is often more convenient the first time you use it. In the case of mkisofs, the "synopsis" at the very start of the manpage is enough for the typical use. On the other hand, it's pretty non-obvious to guess what do I need to choose to burn the damn files in a badly-designed thing like Nero.

And this applies to the first-time use. For the subsequent, you can't really beat the CLI.

Re:Useless

[DAldredge]

Check his posting history and read his name outloud. :)

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

True. I wish slashdot could only be modded using a command line interface. Would drive the idiot moderators away.

/me imagines IRC

Hum. On a second thought, I withdraw this comment.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than the fact that you don't have to type cryptic commands?

So instead of "cryptic" commands (nicely explained in the man page) there are cryptic icons that you have to click with your mouse every time and you can't script it? Sounds useless to me.

Re:Useless

[Dimensio]

Can cdrdao burn .nrg images (used frequently for Dreamcast homebrew software)?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you used to using the command line? If so, probably that made the difference.

Because I *never* had any problems at all getting Nero (v. 5) to work, even the first time. Click the "new CD" button (in the same location that the new document is in every other GUI ever made), pick the type of CD you want, drag the files you want from the hard drive window to the new window that represents the CD, click the "write CD" button or choose "write CD" from the file menu, click burn.

I never had to look in any documentation to figure out how to do anything that wasn't pretty complicated.

After reading the ENTIRE mkisofs man page, I still don't know if I know how to actually write the ISO to the CD, I just have a pointer to look at cdwrite and this -o option that sounds like I can add /dev/acd0, but the warning in the intro paragraphs make me wonder about this. I am confused about the filenames that will appear on the CD; it looks like mkisofs will truncate them to 8.3 format unless you use -I, but is this using Joliet extensions or just using ISO9660 to its fullest? I still have absolutely no clue how to make and audio CD (and don't even know what tool I would use to do so). I'm thinking that unless I spend a long time crafting that include file for the -i option, which "doesn't work very well", I'll need to make a copy (or at least symbolic links) of all my files in another directory because I essentially never make a CD based off just a single directory structure.

I'm not trying to judge you our your opitions, I'm just trying to show that there are very legitimate reasons why someone will prefer a GUI. They are almost universally easier to use than text tools, as you have to go to documentation to figure out how to do things with text tools whereas you can poke around for a minute or two with a GUI. (I'm talking Unix style text tools here, not like NCurses stuff, or even programs that present you with a series of text menus.)

Of course, there are legitimate reasons for liking a command line too. It's scriptable. You can set it up to do repetitive tasks automatically. (Not very useful for CD burning since you still need to put in new CDs, but this is an exception to the rule.) If you know what you're doing, it's often faster than a GUI. (Though again, I can essentially gurantee I can find files in a graphical tree much faster than with a command line, especially for something like CD backups where I'm looking in many of the directories to see if there's anything I need to archive. This is again an exception to the general case.)

But to say that a CLI program is more convenient or that you're better off with a CLI is nothing more than your personal opinion.

Re:Useless

[Nicholas Evans]

I don't know if I'd really consider it a choice. You need to go through all of the effort of getting a Nero license, downloading it, and installing it.

Although I haven't checked the download out, I'll bet you that they only support a very finite number of distros. Probably just RedHat and SuSE, and they'll just provide an RPM. The people who don't use RPM get screwed. It isn't as convinient.

Perhaps Nero won't be like this, but that's the general experience I have with all of the closed-source stuff companies try to provide me with. It takes a significant amount of effort to get it to work on anything besides what they deem 'Supported'. It just isn't the same.

Re:Useless

[Zagar]

You can use nrg2iso

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Can nero burn .toc images (used frequently for Linux homebrew software)?

(Hint: .nrg is nero format, .toc is cdrdao format.)

(Answer: yes.)

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I checked posting history. Your point is?

I read his name. Your point again?

What the hell does it all have to do with the content of this particular comment?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I've just tried it out. It installed and ran with no problems whatsoever. It's quite a nice piece of software. Well worth having a look at.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

As CherryOS is to PearPC
NeroLinux is to k3b.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the best desription of linux users ever to have been written.

The majority of /. users are in the first group.

Re:Useless

[deuce868]

except that they also provide a nice .deb package that installed fine on my debian desktop and ubuntu laptop.

Re:Useless

[rpdillon]

One word:

k3b

OK, well, more than one word. It is driven by cdrdao (and cdrecord), and it's way better than Nero was when I used it back in 99. So there. =)

I can't really speak for Nero 6, though.

Re:Useless

[Queer Boy]

Check his posting history and read his name outloud. :)

So now we mod people based on PAST posts? No wonder the editors never read Slashdot.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Care to elucidate?

Re:Useless

[PReDiToR]

So now we mod people based on PAST posts?

Rather than mod you down, I decided to reply.

When faced with a comment that evokes a reaction, but I'm not sure what kind, I look to the user's post history to make a judgement. If the user has several up mods I give them the benefit of the doubt and put an interesting on it. If they mostly post crap and get neg mods, I leave it for someone else to mod down.

I think other mods do this too, I have seen this topic come up a few times.

Re:Useless

[Dimensio]

Will they still be able to self-boot? I've seen Dreamcast homebrew software released with a batch file and the necessary utilities to create a disc image, and they always start by making an iso image file, and then converting that to .nrg. Since ISO files are so universally accepted by CD recording utilities, I assumed that the .nrg conversion was to make the disc bootable in a Dreamcast.

Re:Useless

[digitalchinky]

I'm using Fedora Core 3, after installing the RPM it gave a series of warnings about an unsupported OS, which I fully ignored and it ran fine.

It's about as easy and logical to use as older versions of nero (5 and below) though this is just my own opinion having installed it 15 minutes ago.

K3B I think is better from a useability point. Again, my own opinion. YMMV.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Incidentally, the majority of users also do not assume a moniker derived from women's clothing.

Dude, that's his real name!

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Can idiots quit using propriety formats for their software? ISOs would work just fine.

Re:Useless

[fr2asbury]

Well, this is my history with CD burning. When I first did it I was a Windows user and naturally used GUI programs to burn my CDs. It was OK I couldn't complain.
Then I made teh switch to Linux and tried a couple GUI CD burning applications and hated them. I was so relieved when I found how easy the two step process of mkisofs and cdrecord was on the CLI that that's all I used for a long time.
Then I discovered k3b. I don't use KDE, but I really like the ease of use that k3b provides, so I've switched back from CLI to GUI.

Re:Useless

[Gentlewhisper]

How is it better than cdrdao?

cdrdao doesn't support multiple device burning at the moment. Nero does provide support for that.

Oh yeah, one less reason for me to stay on Windows!

The moment ICQ 2003b works on Linux, I will switch! :D

Re:Useless

[Firehawke]

This is entirely offtopic, so I'm going to mod myself down (no karma bonus) so as to not disrupt the article thread, but I agree.

If I'm not sure if a person is trying to troll or not, I check their past posting history and see what they're prone to doing. If they have a stack of -1 moderations in the past X postings, then by all means it's pretty safe to assume they're a serial troll and handle it accordingly.

It's only reasonable to take someone's history in mind when dealing with them.

Re:Useless

[celtic_hackr]

Nero may be fine, I don't use it.

However ...

Nero Express, the OEM version (which is probably
the same as the Linux free version) is a piece of crap!

I've been working on burning some CDs at work using Nero's OEM version. I've begged them to let me use Linux to burn them. Each CD has 8-14,000 files. This just buries the CD burning software and loads the system to 100% usage. I've literally spent HOURS babysitting this process just to burn one CD, then I have to reboot the machine to burn another one.

I've suggested zipping them into a single file, but no go.

I wouldn't take Nero Software to burn CDs under Linux if they paid me!

I routinely burn backups to my Linux CDRW containing 10s of thousands of files and I don't spend hours doing it.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. The majority of /. users are Windows lusers disguised as 1337 linux users.

Re:Useless

[menkhaura]

sounds like I can add /dev/acd0,

FreeBSD? man burncd should help you.
To burn your ISO image (example from the burncd manual):

burncd -f /dev/acd0 data image.iso fixate

IMHO, far easier and far more elegant than Linux's cdrecord and its horrendous SCSI emulation hack.

Re:Useless

[ShadeEagle]

In context, it's on-topic....

Honestly. Mod the comment, not the user.

Re:Useless

[Dimensio]

Can idiots quit using propriety formats for their software? ISOs would work just fine.

I've yet to find a Dreamcast ISO file that can properly self-boot.

But then, maybe people who create the images just don't know what they're doing.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the ENTIRE mkisofs man page, I still don't know if I know how to actually write the ISO to the CD

This is the manpage's summary on my Debian system:
mkisofs - create an hybrid ISO9660/JOLIET/HFS filesystem with optional Rock Ridge attributes.

mkisofs just makes an ISO file system; you need another program to burn it. It's common on UNIX for each program to perform only one task like this, so being used to the command line would help you figure it out.

I am confused about the filenames that will appear on the CD; it looks like mkisofs will truncate them to 8.3 format unless you use -I, but is this using Joliet extensions or just using ISO9660 to its fullest?

Just ISO9660. Specify it along with -J for Joliet, and -r for Rock Ridge with sane permissions. The CD should work fine on UNIX, Windows, and Mac.

I'll need to make a copy (or at least symbolic links) of all my files in another directory because I essentially never make a CD based off just a single directory structure.

I just make a directory of symlinks. There are already good file management programs, including GUI ones, so I see no reason to duplicate them inside a burning program. Of course that's just an opinion - lots of people will expect a burning GUI to have a file manager.

Instead of using mkisofs and cdrecord directly, I use a script I downloaded from somewhere. It's too difficult to figure out a good mkisofs command line because of the number of options, and difficult to burn on-the-fly (via a pipe to cdrecord) because cdrecord needs the size ahead of time. But it's easy with a good script. I just type "burndir directory_name", where burndir is this script:

#!/bin/sh
opt='-tao'
if [ "$1" == "-dummy" ]; then
opt="$opt -dummy"
shift
fi

MKISOFS_OPTS="-f -l -r -J -iso-level 2 -quiet"
IMG_SIZE=`mkisofs $MKISOFS_OPTS -print-size $@ 2>/dev/null`
[ "0$IMG_SIZE" != "0" ] && mkisofs $MKISOFS_OPTS $@ \
| cdrecord $opt tsize=${IMG_SIZE}s -v -data -

Re:Useless

[NiceGeek]

(Score -1, Load of drivel)
Been using Nero for years now and it's by far the best cd burning app I've seen.

Re:Useless

[Helge9210]

After reading the ENTIRE mkisofs man page, I still don't know if I know how to actually write the ISO to the CD

Tried to use a hammer as a screwdriver and didn't succeed? How nice.

Because mkisofs is not for writing ISO to CD. It is for creating ISO.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I've yet to find a Dreamcast ISO file that can properly self-boot.

Umm yeah, that's because it is not generally possible to make a self booting CD with just one ISO. You need to have a proper length audio track and multi sessions.
BIN/CUE is one way to go because the BIN file can have arbitrary data keyed by the CUE. A file called an ISO is typically...wait for it.. an ISO file system only.

A self booting ISO is called that because it must contain the IPL inserted in it. Burning it properly is your responsibility, not the creators. There are numerous documents on how to do this.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Easy to learn != Easy to use.

Usability is a term that can be very misleading because it means different things to different people. I tend to do things from the command line not because I'm a masochist, but because it is truly easier for me. Playing with a gui takes longer and is less efficient than using a CLI in most cases. There are of course exceptions to this statement and every tool should be used where it most appropriate and functions best.

I do hope you were joking when you said that some Linux users actually try to make their system harder to use just to impress themselves. Computers are cumbersome enough as it is without actively working to make them more so. No rational person is going to do that no matter how "1337" they think they are.

Re:Useless

[lunadog]

The moment ICQ 2003b works on Linux, I will switch! :D

What's wrong with Gaim?

Re:Useless

[MrResistor]

Well, K3b takes care of that for me.

I was a big fan of Nero back when I was a Windows user. Great software, especially compared to Adaptec/Roxio, but I honestly don't see what they have to offer the modern Linux user.

A few years ago I would have been really excited about this, but now it just seems like they're late to the party. Maybe I'm missing something, or have forgotten something in the 2+ years since I switched?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, there are legitimate reasons for liking a command line too. It's scriptable. You can set it up to do repetitive tasks automatically. (Not very useful for CD burning since you still need to put in new CDs, but this is an exception to the rule.)

Scripting CD burning can sometimes be very useful. I haven't used it, but BBQ includes a CGI script that claims to allow you to "queue albums over telephone networks using DTMF touchtones." Although maybe thats not very useful in itself, at least its a cool hack.

Re:Useless

[andreyw]

How is NERO for Linux any better than K3B? At least when a burn fails under K3B, I stand a better chance figuring out why - it uses the the proven-good console cd/dvd-mastering tools AND DOESN'T HIDE the OUTPUT from the user, allowing me to see the logs. K3B is a friendly and versatile front end to many CLI cd/dvd/cd-xa/cd-da/udf/isofs tools under Linux - AND it's free.

Re:Useless

[shaitand]

Actually I believe what really happens is that some users have been burned by graphical tools on other platforms and/or cli users somehow believe that either you have gui tools or cli tools.

A graphical tool or wizard can read in a text configuration file, make changes to settings and output them to the original file. There is no reason we can't have the best of both worlds.

Re:Useless

[rastakid]

How is it better than cdrdao?

Even if it weren't any better, wouldn't you consider it a good thing that another company is seeing Linux as a desktop operating system?

Re:Useless

[ArsenneLupin]

Even if it weren't any better, wouldn't you consider it a good thing that another company is seeing Linux as a desktop operating system?

Except they don't. You need to enter the serial number of your store-bought windows version of nero-reloaded in order to be allowed to download it. If they were really serious about it they would allow NeroLINUX to be bought directly

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

No rational person is going to do that no matter how "1337" they think they are.

Right, but remember that Linux users are not rational by any standard. They constantly insist that their solution to Windows is more secure, stable, feature-full, blah blah. Whatever, I say. Last time I checked Windows XP ran on less HW requirements than Gnome or KDE (And you can take that fluxbox argument and shove it up your faggot ass. Let's compare apples to apples here), Windows runs more mainstream games than Linux (again, take your QIII argument and shove it up your ass. I double click an icon to get playability. What did you do, edit a handful of obscure files by hand, then spend 2 hours on google looking for the solution to the problem affecting you and maybe one or two other people?), and Windows is more secure than Linux. The news doesn't report Linux flaws daily like they are found with Windows, which leads to a false impression of Linux being more secure than Windows. Yes, the Linux crowd practices it's own version of FUD, except it's full of logic holes big enough to shove a Cray through. Last time I checked, Linux servers were getting holed about a thousand times a day. Linux is THE most insecure and unstable OS around (And you can take that 'Linux is a kernel, not an OS' argument and stick it where the other two should be right now as well. Linux is percieved to be an OS, and therefore it is an OS, since perception is everything), and what's more, because if it's lack of standardization it's ugly and unreliable. UGLY AND UNRELIABLE. Yet in spite of this there is a fractioned minority that insists that their shit doesn't stink, and it's somehow prettier and more usable than a quailty, refined product that sits on over 99% of the world computers. Rational? The Linux community isn't acquainted with that word...

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to go through all of the effort of getting a Nero license, downloading it, and installing it.

That is by far the most stupid fucking argument I have heard in a very long time, and I've been reading Slashdot at -1 Nested for five years now. How is having the option to download and install Nero not a choice exactly?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

When faced with a comment that evokes a reaction, but I'm not sure what kind, I look to the user's post history to make a judgement.

Or you know, you could just leave it alone and wait until you see a post that actually deserves moderating. Crazy, I know.

If they mostly post crap and get neg mods, I leave it for someone else to mod down.

You fucking pussy. How exactly do people like you keep getting mod points? Oh that's right, you avoid M2 by moderating like a stupid fuck.

Oh and yes, I get plenty of mod points. I know what to do with them, though.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Two points. You don't need to buy Nero at a store. You can buy a licence (That would work in both the Windows and Linux versions) via. their website.

I'd guess they've restricted downloads to those with current copies of Nero on Windows on purpose. Think about it; if you have Nero on Windows you're familiar with the software, so your less likely to have problems using it on Linux. I expect Nero will change their download policy for the Linux version at some point in the not too distant future.

Re:Useless

[lachlan76]

That's because mkisofs doesn't burn cds, it makes ISOs.

You want cdrecord.

Re:Useless

[Boltronics]

Interesting that this news was posted today. Just this morning, I burnt my first DVD+R DL disc using K3b. I thought that since the disc was rather expensive, I really want this to work first time. I hit the 'Simulate' button, and hence the 'Verify Written Data' option was grayed out as I wasn't actually burning a real disc, but I had intended to use it later.

After the disc was ejected, I put it back in and selected the same options as I had before, with the exception of 'Verify Written Data' checked instead of 'Simulate'. I got an error straight away... something about already having a non-blank disc already in the drive. Looking at the disc, sure enough the disc had already burnt!

K3b has been around for a long time now. It sure looks pretty and is easy to use, but bugs like this keep me away from alternative GUI tools.

Re:Useless

[m50d]

Well, early in my copy of the manpage, it says "The cdrecord utility is a utility capable of burning an actual disc. The latest version of cdrecord is available from ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord". I thought the entry on -I was pretty clear, especially since the entry on -J just a few paragraphs down explains that that's the option to use for joliet. And if I look at the cdrecord manpage, it tells me pretty early on to use cdrecord dev=HELP to see how I'm allowed to access devices.

Re:Useless

[ThJ]

cdrecord and cdrdao have had native ATAPI support for a while now.

cdrecord dev=ATA:1,1,0 ...

Re:Useless

[Elranzer]

Well CherryOS has been proven to be using code taken (Inspired) from PearPC. And yeah, to me anyway, NeroLinux looks awfully like a Nero-themed version of K3B.

Re:Useless

[tigersha]

Jesus you would think someone would be nice enough to document this.

Re:Useless

[Elranzer]

Well GAIM doesn't have all those flashy, unremovable ads that occupy all that ANNOYING idle processing time and memory I have lying around. Plus it's not released under the great honerable AOL EULA.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not sure if a person is trying to troll or not, I check their past posting history and see what they're prone to doing. If they have a stack of -1 moderations in the past X postings, then by all means it's pretty safe to assume they're a serial troll and handle it accordingly.

It's only reasonable to take someone's history in mind when dealing with them.

I completely agree with you that someone's history is important when you have any doubts about moderation, but there's one thing I'd like to add. Instead of only checking that there were negative moderations, please actually read those comments.

I checked the history of Pan T. Hose and to my surprise there are hardly any comments that were not moderated down at some point and still I have yet to read one of his posts that wouldn't be interesting and worth reading. So my suggestion is to read the posts, not their moderation, because even the one that is now Score:5, Insightful with "Excellent point" reply by duffbeer703 (177751) and "Excellent post" reply by swillden (191260) is "20% Troll" according to the Moderation summary.

I've also read his journal and this guy even gets Offtopic moderation of the clearly on-topic post in his own journal! Such posts look bad in the history as Score:0, Offtopic, but if you look closer it's his own reply to his own journal which even if was offtopic it shouldn't be in my opinion moderated as such.

I also noticed that most of his positively moderated Funny posts like this one which is now Score:3, Funny (Moderation +2, 50% Funny, 30% Overrated, 10% Troll) must cost him a lot of Karma, because Funny mods don't increase Karma, while all of the negative ones always decrease so you get positive moderation and negative Karma even if your comment settles on Score:5 - you get the idea.

In short, my advice is: when you are going to moderate basing your judgement on past moderations, please at least read the posts in question, because not everyone on Slashdot moderates fairly, and those who moderate as Overrated never get to metamoderation.

Actually, I've learned about Funny mods not increasing Karma and Overrated being excluded from the metamoderation reading the moderation analyses in Pan T. Hose's journal - he seems to get a lot of modbombings lately, so use your own judgement when moderating - never blindly follow others.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

If the user has several up mods I give them the benefit of the doubt and put an interesting on it. If they mostly post crap and get neg mods, I leave it for someone else to mod down.

What if they get neg mods even when they don't "mostly post crap"?

Is this crap? Is this? Is this crap? (Hint: see the story in which it was posted.) What about this? (Score:5, Insightful right now but was moderated as Troll in the past). My point is that you should never base your judgement on past moderations - you should always actually read those posts from user's history, because many of those Troll and Overrated comments deserve and need your Interesting mod. See also this comment of mine.

Re:Useless

[EchoesEchoes]

You're just not bothering any more are you?

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

He's clearly a troll. A relatively subtle one, but a troll none the less. Nothing he says can be trusted, because he's getting childish kicks from playing mind games with language.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I percieve the following: 1, your an asshole 2, your an asshole 3, your a moron. and 4, your an asshole and flaimbate. Whee, perception is everything so, it's true!

Re:Useless

[penix1]

"The man page explains everything..."

And therein lies the problem. Most, if not all, manpages were written by the very geeks that wrote the progam. Things that are obvious to the programmers may not be obvious to the end user. People get that glassy-eyed look when reading a program's documentation that has too many options especially if they get all technical in the docs.

B.

Re:Useless

[ari_j]

Your grammar and spelling are both atrocious. Hell, you didn't even get the "I before E except after C" rule right.

Re:Useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Any references?

Re:Useless

[TommydCat]

(Score -1, Clueless)

I've been using Nero for years now and trying to burn anything with more than a few hundred files will bring it to it's knees. (Most other tasks work great for me, personally)

This is a known issue and no matter how much you like Nero despite its faults will not fix those faults.

Re:Useless

[Dimensio]

Well that's brilliant. Tell that to the people who told me to use nrg->iso as a "solution".

Re:Useless

[U1timateZer0]

What about if that user had a quite a few highly modded posts, but one fatal *mistake* caused his or her karma to plummet unceasingly? For example, this account that I'm posting on is somewhat of a clone account, because on my original account, after many "+5 Funny" or "+5 Insightful" or "+X Whatever" mods; I posted something that offended somebody or something like that, and now I get a -1 on EVERY GODDAMN THING I post, regardless of whether I am funny, troll, on topic, off, or whatever! Who is to blame for that load of horseshit? I can't get get a better karma score because I have a "terrible" rating; and I have a "Terrible" rating because I can't get a better score. It's a catch 22 cycle that I CANNOT get out of!

Free as in...

[ari_j]

So it's not free as in speech or free as in beer. It's more like free as in carbonation.

Re:Free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

Free as in beer... If you have a license for Nero.

Re:Free as in...

[Crayon Kid]

Regardless, I was actually curious to see what kind of burning solution they bring to Linux. So far most (if not all) graphical burners are just frontends for cdrdao, cdrtools or dvd+rw-tools.

Rumour has it they used GnomeToaster for the interface. If NeroLinux is just another frontend, then it will be quickly dismissed by serious Linux users, who already have several established alternatives to choose from.

But the NeroLinux presentation mentions all kinds of goodies, including "NeroAPI 6.6" interfacing with 2.4 and 2.6 kernels. A new player in the Linux burning arena, coupled with an actual full port of Nero to Linux, would be a wonderful thing IMO. Serious competition is always good.

Either way, this is good news for the Linux user base. One less application for the newbies to worry about when pondering switching to Linux. Nevermind if it comes with a native burning solution or not; just knowing that "Nero has a Linux version" will encourage people to switch. I personally heard many say Nero was the last app holding them back. This is one of the highest profile apps for Windows, and now it has established a Linux presence. This is great news.

Re:Free as in...

[rs79]

"Regardless, I was actually curious to see what kind of burning solution they bring to Linux./i"

Burning solution? Dude, it's saturday. Take the necktie off.

Re:Free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's more like free as in carbonation.

Let's hope not. Here in Ohio carbonation is now taxed. So when you buy carbonated beverages at a drive through window, they still won't tax you on the food itself but now you pay tax on the carbon dioxide. No joke.

Re:Free as in...

[LnxAddct]

I've used this nero product. Not to bash Nero, they make reallt good burning software for windows, but K3b has always imho been the best burning software out there for any platform, and my oppinion remains the same after trying out the nero software on linux. K3b is such a high quality piece of software... its a joy to use. Although its definitly great to see software makers targeting linux now. I can only assume that this will be packaged with Xandros/Red Hat or Suse soon. Most likely Xandros, Red Hat and Suse seem to both have burning stuff down pretty well and Xandros is known for giving its distro a "proprietary advantage" with bundling proprietary software. (No, I'm not saying others don't do this, but Xandros seems to make it a major selling point)
Regards,
Steve

Re:Free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

Free as in "free i-pod".

Re:Free as in...

[Shatrat]

You get a gold-plated Rolls Royce, as long as you pay for it.

Re:Free as in...

[ari_j]

Oh my goodness. Ohio is officially off of my "states I can live in" list. Thanks for the heads-up.

Re:Free as in...

[menkhaura]

The point is, if you paid for a license in the first place (and you have to, in order to get the Linux version), it is no longer free.

Re:Free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the spirit...

Re:Free as in...

[sparkeyjames]

Gas? Somthing plenty of us beer swilling /.ers have pleanty of.
Specificaly the hot kind. Or is that hot air? Bruuppp.

Re:Free as in...

[jemfinch]

I personally heard many say Nero was the last app holding them back.

No, what's holding them back is that they lack a sense of adventure, a yearning for the unknown, a thirst for knowledge. In short: they're not geeks.

Don't get your hopes up. They'll find another "last app holding them back."

Jeremy

Re:Free as in...

[9-bits.tk]

An example of this "proprietary advantage" involves bundling programs such as Crossover Office. They recently announced that they were bundling Skype (IIRC), which I installed on my Mandrake 10.1 laptop.

Re:Free as in...

[STFS]

It's free as in:

You get a "free" beer if you buy a glass of vodka!

Re:Free as in...

[aaronl]

Honestly, if they really wanted to use Linux and didn't because of Nero, I'd say the people you know are idiots. The tools available on Linux and friends do all the same things that Nero does, but cost no money. Seriously though, how many people worry about burning a CD when switching OS'? Everything out there supports it, most of them come with software to do it. Windows is one of the few that didn't ship with mastering software, and XP even comes with something for it.

And for the record, Nero isn't a very high profile app at all. It's a good app, no question, but most people don't even know what it is. Plus, there's better apps out there for most of it's functions, Nero just has a rather good implementation of them all.

Re:Free as in...

[Elranzer]

Oh my goodness. Ohio is officially off of my "states I can live in" list. Thanks for the heads-up.

The 2004 elections were what put it on my list.

Re:Free as in...

[Afrosheen]

I completely agree. Some people are just not going to convert, no matter what. They like a safe zone where things break predictably and they're comfortable with that. For them, it's like quitting their job and going out to find another one. It's terrifying.

If the majority of these fence-sitters would just install something and dual boot, they could gain experience so when Linux is 'ready' for them, they wipe the Windows partition and give Linux that space.

Sorry gang, but Linux isn't ready for me posts are bullshit. You're not ready for linux.

Re:Free as in...

[galenoftheshadows]

Yeah, too many people are still addicted to Rox-i-o.

Re:Free as in...

[Guppy06]

"No, what's holding them back is that they lack a sense of adventure, a yearning for the unknown, a thirst for knowledge. In short: they're not geeks."

If that's truly what geeks are looking for, why don't they ever leave the house?

Re:Free as in...

[Anonymous Coward]

Me too and I live here.

Re:Free as in...

[FloridaSage]

The NEXT burner I buy, that says it runs in Linux, had BETTER include "NERO for Linux"! I consider all those marvelous, unused, 'windows', CDroms I have received with various equipment peripherals (that, quote, "Runs in linux, with third party drivers"), and consider that I had PAID for ALL of the included SOFTWARE, also, as part of the manufacturer/VAR marketing hype! Hey, Nero! Trade you seven "Nero 'windows' CDroms", for one LINUX CDrom!

Re:Free as in...

[2004.3]

Awwwww, c'mon! I left the house! (Pizza place won't deliver this far....)

Also now available

[Anonymous Coward]

A Nero keygen for Linux.

Re:Also now available

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a keygen available but you have to compile it before...

Re:Also now available

[Zorilla]

You laugh, but I just browsed Torrentreactor.net and saw NeroLinux on there. I was thinking, "WTF?" I thought it may have been some crap Wine port, but then I saw this article.

Re:Also now available

[kernel_dan]

A Nero keygen for Linux.*



*When used in conjunction with WINE.

Re:Also now available

[yogikoudou]

A Nero keygen for Linux.
That would be the ultimate step to linux on the desktop

Re:Also now available

[Anonymous Coward]

You laugh, but there have been Windows-based keygens for Linux apps before..

Re:Also now available

[Anonymous Coward]

I just hope it works better than the windows version... i have to 'click' generate key about 7-8 times to get a 'cd-key' nero will accept with the windows keygen.

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

NeroLINUX is free-as-in-beer only if you've registered "a full version of Nero software version 6 or higher," or a "retail version or downloaded version."

So you have to buy, or already own a copy of Nero. So tell me again how this is "free-as-in-beer?"

Re:What?

[thoughtcriminal87]

1) Buy beer
2) Drink beer
3) Vomit beer
4) Drink the new, "free" beer that has just appeared.

Re:What?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

So you have to buy, or already own a copy of Nero. So tell me again how this is "free-as-in-beer?"

Well, it's free-as-the-beer-you-steal-from-the-convenience-sh op, given that Nero is usually d/l'ed rather than purchased really.

Perhaps they account for P2P in their "free as in beer" assessment...

Re:What?

[Joey Patterson]

So tell me again how this is "free-as-in-beer?"

It's like shelling out oodles of cash to go to Cancun for Spring Break where you'll find free beer -- that's how this is "free as in beer."

Re:What?

[Cylix]

Don't forget OEM's.

So far, every burner I've had from new egg has included some version of Nero.

I'm guessing they have a decent OEM base, but I don't have statistics to really clarify that.

Re:What?

[XryanX]

My guess is that they're targeting those that buy from Dell, and then wipe the Windows partition to install Linux. They're more or less allowing you to use what you already paid for. While I don't see this being used much, it's definitely nice to see that companies are recognizing the *nix market.

Re:What?

[koreaman]

ROFL! This comment made my day and it is perfectly true.

Re:What?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Or you could just bypass 1), 2) and 3) and get a Bud or a Corona. Same taste, it's not free though...

Re:What?

[glimmy]

free as in Alchohol Free beer

Re:What?

[KiloByte]

Nope, OEM versions are explicitely excluded.

Re:What?

[Zorilla]

Dell customers who use Linux...there's your large customer base right there!

Re:What?

[arose]

You might as well forget them:

Please note: This offer is not for OEM or Trial version users. OEM users can Upgrade Now for a special discount offer.

Re:What?

[ian rogers]

It's free as in the beer you get for free if you pay $2 to get into a party that has free beer once you get inside.

Re:What?

[SlashdotOgre]

I wish Dell shipped Nero with Windows XP, instead they give you some Sonic RecordNow! crap (I just picked up a Latitude D610). Actually I wish Dell offered laptops without an OS. The only reason I still have a Windows partition is for programs like OrCAD PSPICE, but Nero would have been a plus.

Re:What?

[Domini]

Yup, same here.. I've got several copies already.

It will come free with your drive, and most good quality drives get bundles with it.... or at least all the ones I buy...

I'm very happy about this. It could make quite a couple of people ditch their Windows.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

While this offer is not available to users of the OEM version, OEMs may decide to license and include the Linux version with their hardware. Having 'Linux-compatible' on the box is a good thing.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, there's soda between the keys now.

Re:What?

[SnoopJeDi]

5) Profit....?

Re:What?

[Zemran]

I agree, I bought a DVD-+R for my box that has a free version of Nero that is no use as it is for Windows. I saw this and thought, 'great, I can change it', but no, I cannot change an OEM version... I have to buy a windows version, when I already have one that I do not want, before I can get the 'FREE' Linux version. Nothing crazy here??? and people will think me bad when I download it off eDonkey :)

Re:What?

[wo1verin3]

RecordNow is a great but SIMPLE app for the masses. It passes the mom test... but for a geek why are you buying a Dell anyway?

Re:What?

[PygmySurfer]

RecordNow is a great but SIMPLE app for the masses. It passes the mom test... but for a geek why are you buying a Dell anyway?

Probably because he bought a laptop (I just picked up a Latitude D610). It takes the ultimate geek to build your own laptop. Sadly, the parent is just a super geek.

Re:What?

[AdamTheBastard]

It's beer-free because you are still allowed to have your copy of Nero for Win32 installed and functioning. You have your bought and paid for windows install plus your *free linux install at no extra cost!

It wouldn't be free if the license said that you had to uninstall your windows version before installing on linux.

*for some definitions of free.

Re:What?

[tokul]

So you have to buy, or already own a copy of Nero. So tell me again how this is "free-as-in-beer?"

Maybe it is not free as GPL, but users can use same interface on Linux and Windows, if they own Windows version of Nero.

License is not good enough of FOSS, but it is good for people that move from Windows to Linux. NeroLinux shows that some companies start considering Linux as Desktop platform, that might give some extra revenue.

Re:What?

[isecore]

you forgot:

5. ???
6. Profit!

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Buy beer
2) Drink beer
3) Install Foley catheter while drunk
4) Drink the new, "free" beer that has just appeared, or refill Black Label bottles for
distribution since consumers will think the taste has improved.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just about all drives come with Nero. The only drives I've seen consistantly missing a Nero bundle are Sony drives, because Sony has their own software. It's also the most horrible thing I've ever seen.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You pay for the bottles and cans, the beer is free.

Re:What?

[hawk]

same taste my ****. What you suggest is a defnite step down from the parent!

hawk, off to fill some Corona bottles with reprocessed homebrew

Re:What?

[hawk]

Once you've been delled, you don't tend to bother with linux. You go all the way to FreeBSD.

hawk, posting through freebsd on a (*&% dell laptop

Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

... distributing k3b, cdrecord, cdrdao and all. Those are free as in beer and speech, already work just fine with almost any burner, and they're already there (as opposed to Nero having to roll their own).

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[koreaman]

I wouldn't be surprised if Nero just uses those as a backend, so basically that's what they're doing. All they had to do was make the GUI.

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

NeroLINUX uses NeroAPI for low-level operations (burn process) (FTA)

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[anicca]

That's funny. I could not burn a disc without errors using a lite-on 16x, gentoo and 2.6.10. The burner would NOT burn error free and DVDshrink would not run for crap. I played with it for a WEEK. The advice I kept getting was 'use 2.6.7 for burning'. (I don't want to) Now if nero can burn on my puter without errors I may have to switch back to gentoo. Since 90% of what I do is game and burn dvds, linux is not really suitable yet...will be if other software producers follow nero (and ID) and put out Linux ports of their stuff.

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[X.25]

Nero would have better spent their time and $$$ distributing k3b, cdrecord, cdrdao and all. Those are free as in beer and speech, already work just fine with almost any burner, and they're already there (as opposed to Nero having to roll their own).

Isn't Linux about everyone using what suits them, and everyone having a choice? Did Nero have a choice? Yeps. They made Nero for Linux.

I've been using Linux for ages, and I mostly use console + WindowMaker. Guess what - k3b won't work on WM. GnomeWhatever? Same story. And so on, and so on.

Anyway, kudos to Nero.

I used to pay $20 (or was it $25?) for OSS Yamaha sound-card driver, years ago. I didn't mind doing it. If NeroLINUX works well, I won't mind paying for it either. If Total Commander shows up for Linux tomorrow, they'll be getting my money.

I don't use Linux because I want everything for free (although it would be nice). If you use Linux because of that, then skip commenting on this article, since it's obviuosly not intented for you.

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

k3b works fine under WindowMaker for me, I use WM under VNC when I'm not running directly on my system. Not sure why you're having a problem with it.

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

The advice I kept getting was 'use 2.6.7 for burning'. (I don't want to)

Then quit whining. You were given the solution to your problem and you ignored it. Your problem.

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[X.25]

k3b works fine under WindowMaker for me, I use WM under VNC when I'm not running directly on my system. Not sure why you're having a problem with it.

Maybe because I don't have KDE/QT installed? Right. It's not big anyway, so why shouldn't I install it to have k3b running...

Re:Nero would have better spent their time and $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, next you'll complain that k3b needs mkisofs/cdrecord/cdrdao/growisofs and whatnot. Maybe your OS choice is wrong?

But can it compete?

[Wylfing]

Can it compete with the likes of GnomeBaker? No? And it costs money? Ok, nothing to see here then.

Re:But can it compete?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can it compete with the likes of GnomeBaker? No? And it costs money? Ok, nothing to see here then.

When it's about Gnome and Gnome apps, you're right, there's really nothing to see here...

Re:But can it compete?

[pseudochaotic]

I suppose this is what commercial software gets for ignoring Linux for so long. Somebody else writes something better for free, and the market they're aiming for with this completely vanishes.

Re:But can it compete?

[Zorilla]

Parent post is not flamebait. It was a general comment on how uncustomizable the Gnome GUI is. When you can't do so much as change your mouse cursor from the preferencess window and have to re-point your /etc/alternatives/x-mouse-cursor to a new theme file instead, things are very wrong.

Re:But can it compete?

[SynapticPlasticity]

That's why we have KDE! If only it wasn't a resource hog. By the way despite all the flames I am glad nero did a Linux version. This can be an example for some other companies and we may have more an more things ported to Linux.

Re:But can it compete?

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

This is the kind of attitude that is keeping commercial software companies off Linux.

Yes, most of the needs of the FOSS/Linux/BSD community are taken care of by the FOSS community and a whole variety of free software, so much so that most opportunities/markets are saturated.

However, when a well-recognized company tries to enter the Linux market, it faces comments such as the parent's. Why would any commercial software company take the Linux community seriously, as a potential market, when the Linux community does not take them seriously, unless it is free?

So NeroLinux is not free. Perhaps it is worse than GnomeBaker and K3B. But at least they recognize the Linux community. Encouraging Nero to try harder, rather than posting trollish comments about how it's not free and not as good as other software, would do more to help Linux's image in the corporate world.

After all, the FOSS community is not the be-all and end-all of software development.

Re:But can it compete?

[Jesus_666]

The market is Windows users who are used to use a does-it-all software like Nero to do everything remotely related related to CD-Rs. The same people who consider using Linux until they hear stuff like: "Oh, in order to burn CD you just need cdrdao... And look, there's a nice graphical frontend for it, it depends on cdrdao, dvd+rw-tools, id3lib, flac, xfwm4 and libselinux-devel. Oh, and with your kernel version you have to be root if you actually want to burn something."

I know, it's already been said before, but just being able to say "Well, there's always Nero" when asked about burning CDs on Linux is a Good Thing. For many users Nero is one of Windows' killer apps.

Re:But can it compete?

[flossie]

Perhaps it is worse than GnomeBaker and K3B. But at least they recognize the Linux community. Encouraging Nero to try harder, rather than posting trollish comments about how it's not free and not as good as other software, would do more to help Linux's image in the corporate world.

If they are offering inferior software at a greater price than the competition, they cannot really complain if their product is not greeted with rapturous approval. When you consider that freedom is more important than free for many GNU/Linux users, the arrival of a non-free, inferior product will not make much impact.

It is good that companies are taking notice of GNU/Linux, but if they want to make an impact their software should be superior to that which currently exists or free. Or both.

Re:But can it compete?

[natrius]

There's always gcursor, which I hear might be integrated into the theme dialog at some point. But honestly, how many normal users actually change their mouse cursors?

Re:But can it compete?

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

Surely, in any market, an inferior product would generally be disregarded.

However, my point was simply that if the Linux community was more encouraging of the commercial companies, which could provide software on the Linux platform that would be familiar to Windows users, there would be more acceptance of Linux, by both software companies and the general public.

In any case, this is Nero's first Linux venture, and if they receive more compliments, they'd be more willing to pursue Linux development.

Re:But can it compete?

[sundog61]

The problem is that it's being met with disdain. Sometimes I wonder if (some) Linux supporters really want Linux to move out of it's current niche-ish arena. Nero is a good product. People who already know how to use it, will apparently not have a problem using it on Linux. That one fewer barrier.

Re:But can it compete?

[drinkypoo]

It's just going to be an example of why they shouldn't bother when no one actually buys the thing - though there is a chance they'll rope in corporate customers.

Re:But can it compete?

[natrius]

Oops. I pasted the wrong link. Gcursor is here: http://qballcow.nl/?s=14

Re:But can it compete?

[Zorilla]

My circumstances were a bit odd. I use Debian with GNOME and the Bluecurve theme converted over from Fedora Core 3. The way it is set up by default, the /etc/alternatives/x-cursor-theme is a symlink to /usr/share/themes/Industrial/cursor.theme, so the mouse cursor is always the Industrial themed cursor. It's a nice-looking cursor, but I wanted Bluecurve all the way, so I had to re-point it to /usr/share/themes/Bluecurve/cursor.theme to get the Bluecurve mouse cursor going.

Re:But can it compete?

[GiMP]

The problem here is that the marketing sucks. Maybe it is a better program than GnomeBaker and K3B, but who would know? There is no demo available, no screenshots, and you can't even buy it directly.

Eventually, Nero will probably blame their bad product/marketing on the attitude (or lack of) Linux users, and will leave the Linux market. It has happened before, it will happen again.

I hope that Nero and other companies wake up and realize that Linux users do not need them, they need Linux users. For this reason, they must cater to the user's needs. This is a product which caters to no one's need, thus it will fail. Come out with new and great products which Linux users actually want and would pay for, market it well, and get a return on your investment.

Linux users want screenshots, trial versions (if not open source), and most importantly -- a unique and interesting product! Don't give us a list of features and assume that we will be brand conscious -- especially if we don't know your brand! Don't forget that your brand means nothing if you're in a completely new market. This is your first impression and you've blown it. Sorry, insert quarters and try again.

Re:But can it compete?

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

Not all Linux users, I'm afraid, are geeks, and know what K3B is. Aunt Tilly isn't going to run and learn K3B because it's there. She's going to go with something she knows, and that's the target market.

I can't blame Nero for leaving because of the attitude of Linux users. It was the point I was trying to make. However, as many *nix developers realized, Linux needs corporate support too, and the more support it gets from software developers, the more appealing it will be as a platform.

Linux needs software houses like Nero as much as Nero needs the Linux market, if not more. Ever wonder why more software companies cater to Mac than to Linux?

Re:But can it compete?

[Red Alastor]

Not all Linux users, I'm afraid, are geeks, and know what K3B is. Aunt Tilly isn't going to run and learn K3B because it's there. She's going to go with something she knows, and that's the target market.

Most "aunt Tillie" I know can use k3b just find. Which is probably because I installed their distro, gave them some instructions on how to use it and told them that k3b is "just like Nero". Of course, it's not exactly the same but for what they use, they look alike.

Most Aunt Tillie users have been introduced by someone and can usually call them if they don't know what app to use for something.

The main problem is usually when you tell them that OpenOffice is "just like MS Office".

Re:But can it compete?

[16K Ram Pack]

Good post.

We should all be applauding this, considering it as another great step. The more commercial companies support Linux, the more it shows the possibility of the shift in the market.

Re:But can it compete?

[CowboyBob500]

There is no demo available, no screenshots, and you can't even buy it directly.

Here's one out of three... NeroLinux Screenshots

Bob

Re:But can it compete?

[Anonymous Coward]

Almost every distro just says "CD Burning" in the menus, and ESR's mythical aunt couldn't install Nero on Linux anyway.

Re:But can it compete?

[m50d]

I'd have thought she could look through the menus. On my system the kde menus give a description of the app first, like "CD Burning (K3b)". So she doesn't need to know she wants k3b, she just needs to look for a cd burning program. And really, how hard is it to learn? Other than the qt look and feel, which can be set to look pretty windowslike if you select "windows" in the friendly introductory wizard, it's laid out almost exactly the same way as nero.

Re:But can it compete?

[Fred_A]

I think it's good that companies aknowledge Linux and move to it, even with commercial products (I have nothing against commercial software, I buy commercial games regularly).

But, um, Motif ? Hello ? Nero might be the greatest CD burning app on the planet (I wouldn't know, apparently being one of the only two people that has never used it), but *MOTIF* ??? Aaaargh !

Well I suppose it's a kind of a start to test the waters...

Not sure what the point is since any distribution will be setup for burning out of the box nowadays, but well, the more the merryer...

Re:But can it compete?

[anarxia]

Desktop Preferences->Mouse. Look for the "Cursor" Tab. I am using 2.6.

Re:But can it compete?

[GiMP]

It uses gtk1 ?!? Sigh...

Advantages of Nero?

[haluness]

Never having used Nero on Windows, are there advantages to using Nero on Linux?

It seems, that cdrecord and k3b (or xtoaster) does everything I need

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[bird603568]

THe only guess is that they have support. In case you have a problem, maybe. no i didnt rtfa becasue its down

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Rashkae]

Except, if you read the fine frint in the FA, it says, Neor offers *No* support for the Linux Version.... so... no.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Antique Geekmeister]

For data DVD's and CD's, cdrecord and k3b are more than enough. For video, though, duplicating DVD's enters interesting legal territory. The libdvdcss libraries often used for Linux video DVD burning have been ruled illegal in several countries. Getting a clean copy of a legal, licensed, software package to do DVD burning and avoid the potential liability is understandable.

Also, Nero is considerably better in its interfaces than even k3b.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[cgranade]

Same here. I still welcome this heardily. Why? Choice. If someone wants to use the Nero OEM that came with their burner instead of K3b, let 'em. No harm to me. It knocks down one more barrier to Linux on the desktop. One of the primary reasons for me sticking with a Windows system before was because of Nero's DVD authoring systems (before I realized I had no talent in movies, anyway). Qdvdauthor is kinda sorry, or at least it was, and even if it wasn't, choice is a primarally good thing, right? It'd be hypocritical of us to slam Nero for doing something that helps us with our goals.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[imsabbel]

Nero has included quite some video codec features in its burning software, including the currently best h264 codec. (but i dont know how much is included in that version the article is about).

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[TheSolomon]

*Any* popular software manufacturer who decided to port an application to Linux is a *good* thing.

The biggest stumbling block for mainstream Linux viability is its perceived difficulty to use *and* there being far fewer popular titles available.

Nero, while duplicating what other (open source) developers have done, may not be doing anything cutting edge with their application, at least they are doing *something*, and doing it for *free* (to their existing paid customers).

If it helps even one non-Linux use to think themselves "Hmmm, maybe there is something to this whole Linux thing. Maybe I should try it!" -- that is a great thing.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[kosmosik]

With plain CDR writer - no. But with modern (I can be wrong here) DVD burning software you have some patented/non-free stuff going on... So basically you can't do some stuff with k3b... And Nero (keep in mind that is my assumption) will do this and it will be legal.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[sundog61]

For someone such as yourself, there may not be any advantage. But for people who haven't learned how to burn under Linux or are already familiar with Nero there are advantages.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[LiquidCoooled]

Maybe not for you personally, but this port from the windows version brings one major thing to Linux:

Brand recognition.

Its not going to miraculously change the world and its not going to cure cancer, but it does add another feather in the Linux cap :)

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Queer Boy]

and doing it for *free* (to their existing paid customers).

I think it's great that a software vendor is actually abiding their own EULA, that in essence, you are buying a software license and not the physical product.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[gnarlin]

patented/non-free stuff eh?
If I remember correctly that was how dvd reading was when it first arrived. Similar examples are software-modems (aka winmodems) and other misc. hardware that relied on propriatery software to make it work. What happened?

Those features where reverse-engineered, re-implemented and released as Free software.
Then came the dreaded DMCA. Thankfully that doesn't apply to the rest of the world (at least not yet).

There is NO reason why we shouln't have Free software that can write DVD's. Just because the entertainment industry (or their supposed representetives) are trying very hard to make it impossible to have the freedom to write to any media we choose by setting stupid laws and corporations making up restricting patents doesn't mean that we should just accept that only propriatery software could lawfully (I mean in accordance with whatever stupid laws they make and enforce) implement those features.

This and always will be about our Freedom, and pretty please with sugar on top, don't you forget it!

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[h4lphl33tor]

You are indeed wrong, there are no special legal restrictions on burning DVDs. It's reading and decoding them than is regulated.

DVD burning just involves creating an iso9660 file system with whatever you want in there.

If what you want to do is copying copyrighted material, then it's a altogether different ball game, but depending on the use you make of the copy, it is not necessarilly illegal either and BTW making a copy, doesn't require decoding the files so there are no DVD specific issues there.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[BlueWonder]

Here in Germany, it is illegal to "circumvent copy protection" (or to sell or advertise software that does so, or to explain to anyone how to do so). It makes no difference if you use libdvdcss or a "licensend software package," copying a CSS-protected DVD is always illegal in Germany.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[m50d]

Not really, but it's one less thing for new users to worry about. I welcome this in the same way I welcome realplayer on linux.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[kosmosik]

Yes I agree with you. But on the other hand I *need* computer to do things for me (that is my job) and if I can't get those things free (as in speech) it is good that at least I can get it free as a beer.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[kosmosik]

I'am not talking about movie DVD's. Just plain DVD with data. I own DVD burner and right now I use growzisofs to do backups with it. But I remember some time when I bought my hardware I was looking for burning software and came across something like cdrecord-ProDVD which required me to get somekind of license (it was certainly not free as in speech). So I mean plain DVD burning may be free, but there are features that you can do with your burner but those features are not free...

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[legirons]

"Never having used Nero on Windows, are there advantages to using Nero on Linux?"

Short answer: If you're the kind of person who already uses RealPlayer on Linux, Yahoo Messenger on Linux, Macromedia Flash on Linux, and all the rest of the proprietary Windows apps, then you'll probably be interested in Nero on Linux. For a while. Until Nero realise that everyone is ignoring them and quietly abandons the software.

Shorter answer: No, it can't be distributed freely so there's a good chance you won't even have it on a typical machine, while K3B will be installed by default.

The Linux packaging mechanisms are optimised for software which can be freely shared, modified and redistributed. Nero are complete outsiders to that mechanism.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[arodland]

... except that libdvdcss has nothing at all to do with burning, only with ripping protected movies. Once you get to the burning stage, you're dealing with unencrypted data. As far as I can tell, Nero never touches CSS; Ahead's Recode product says it only works on "non-protected DVDs". So, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but I can't agree with your conclusion. mkisofs + cdrecord and a good front end are just as capable when dealing with Video DVD as they are with anything else. Which is, in my estimation, reasonably good and constantly getting better.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Afrosheen]

I just tried NeroLinux, and it pales in comparison to k3b. It looks nothing like it's windows counterpart and has shit all for options (i.e. almost none). To Nero's credit, they call it version 2.0, so you can't expect much yet.

I'll take k3b over this noobware anyday. Call me in 3 years when Nero is mature.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Antique Geekmeister]

Thank you for checking it out and giving us the warning that it's not there yet.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[SiChemist]

Could you please point out one single Data DVD burning feature that you have to pay for? You make these vague assertions and then don't back them up with anything.

Re:Advantages of Nero?

[Reziac]

I can't tell from their site, but from all posts here, it sounds like NeroLinux is brother to the horrible, crippled, and braindead NeroExpress, NOT to Nero-fullversion. (I rant a bit about the difference somewhere upstream).

screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

any screenshots available? does anybody know what toolkit they've used?

Re:screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

Here

Re:screenshots

[Zorilla]

Eww..that's no surprise - a proprietary Linux application that uses some crusty GUI API like Motif. (Think of all the wonderful commercial applications that come with SuSE like Adobe Acrobat that are crusted to hell)

Hmm...I'm hoping that it's actually GTK or QT and the system in the screenshots is using a Motif-style theme for one of the main GUI libraries.

Re:screenshots

[mdew]

Its a GTK 1.x application, lets hope for a 2.x port soon.

Re:screenshots

[Zorilla]

They used verion 1? What's their excuse for that? Maybe if development began in the late 90s, but not this. Good god.

Re:screenshots

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice example of just how terrible it looks:
http://img122.exs.cx/img122/7323/nero15jg.png

Not much can be done with it, missing the "click here to backup your dvd movie" button.

Also takes about 8-10 seconds between quit and the program is shutting down message to disappear.

Re:screenshots

[Zorilla]

Yeah, reminiscent of MS Outlook's exit window.

Oh well, at least Nero doesn't keep you from logging out when it's open.

It's pointless

[KiloByte]

Now, tell me, what exactly would I want Nero for?

It's only value is that it includes a comprehensive point&click interface, but even though it's stuffed with features, it can't beat the existing, free tools.

Unless you're a Windows user who wants a program he's familiar with, there is no reason to even look at it. Plus, it's not even free-as-beer, as you need to pay for a full, registered version of Nero for Windows.

Re:It's pointless

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with the free tools:

Jorg Schilling is damage

cdrtools aren't as free as they should be either. Competition is good. What they should do is release a GPL NeroAPI implementation for linux. libschilly is crap. libburn was a start, but it's currently stalled.

Re:It's pointless

[Jugalator]

Now, tell me, what exactly would I want Nero for?

???

The same thing as any other burning application?

Or are you thinking the software world for Linux should contain exactly one software for each purpose?

It's only value is that it includes a comprehensive point&click interface, but even though it's stuffed with features, it can't beat the existing, free tools.

OK, there you gave reason #1 (good GUI) and #2 (feature set) to use it on Linux, yourself. And being "Free" (libra) doesn't matter to all Linux users at all, believe it or not. And being "free" (gratis), well, see below...

Unless you're a Windows user who wants a program he's familiar with, there is no reason to even look at it.

Exactly! And there you gave reason #3 (familiarity).

Plus, it's not even free-as-beer, as you need to pay for a full, registered version of Nero for Windows.

Yeah, and Linux isn't free because you need to pay the hardware first. The point is that Nero is among the most commonly used burning apps on Windows there is, so existing licenses shouldn't be too uncommon. But yes, of course if you're building a Linux box from scratch, with no prior license for Nero, you should carefully consider the advantages and disadvantages for all apps. Fortunately, you have a choice here. ;-)

Re:It's pointless

[dbIII]

It's only value is that it includes a comprehensive point&click interface, but even though it's stuffed with features, it can't beat the existing, free tools

That is the value. In order for clerical staff to burn a single data file bigger than 2GB on a DVD in linux where I work they have to use a script that makes a udf filesystem and burns that - which confuses them since Nero on windows can do it but GUI burning software on linux can't (or couldn't - someone please give me good news). I'm sure there's a few other features which become significant with a big user base like with Nero but haven't been done yet with K3B etc.

Just having the menus in the same place would have value with a common clerical staff attitude of not wanting to learn anything unless they are paid to go on a course. Sit them in front of a desktop with icons for mozilla/netscape, openoffice and Nero and it often won't matter to them what the OS is.

K3B is very nice, but really brings home the limitations of the usual win32 single desktop screen when you bring it up on a windows desktop via X. There are so many windows that pop up - while since Nero came from the win32 background it would probably look saner across the network to the average secretary.

Re:It's pointless

[shutdown -p now]

The only free existing tool which has about the same features as Nero is K3B. It is, however, dependent on large portions on KDE. Many people don't want to have KDE bloat on their system just for one application, and despise the flashy widgets it implies. XCDRoast is no alternative - its UI is simply horrible. Now we've got a decent alternative. Good.

Re:It's pointless

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know. Maybe I'd like a reliable, easy, and consistent way to do something simple like burn a CD.

Maybe I don't want to badmouth a company that's put effort in porting a very popular windows application to linux.

Or maybe I don't want to karma whore by stating my preference of OSS tools over closed source tools.

Re:It's pointless

[arafel]

K3B is very nice, but really brings home the limitations of the usual win32 single desktop screen when you bring it up on a windows desktop via X. There are so many windows that pop up

Eh? You get precisely one window while you're composing the CD, then one on top of that while it's burning - exactly the same number as Nero uses. Are you sure you're talking about k3b...?

Re:It's pointless

[Anonymous Coward]

quote: Yeah, and Linux isn't free because you need to pay the hardware first.
Yeah, and you REALLY ARE ASSHOLE...
no comments...

gpl violation?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a blatent ripoff of k3b... Shouldn't they release their source code so that we can all check it to make sure there is no GPL code stuck in there someplace?? Cause i am pretty sure there is... One guy doesn't come up with a whole burning suite by himself in 40 ... and the interface looks strangly familar... almost like ive seen it someplace before.. It probably even generates error codes similar to this program i used to use for windows.. So, aw, any one got a .torrent??

Re:gpl violation?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a blatent ripoff of k3b... Shouldn't they release their source code so that we can all check it to make sure there is no GPL code stuck in there someplace?? Cause i am pretty sure there is... One guy doesn't come up with a whole burning suite by himself in 40 ... and the interface looks strangly familar... almost like ive seen it someplace before.. It probably even generates error codes similar to this program i used to use for windows.. So, aw, any one got a .torrent??

You should get a faster CD writer, that'd leave you more time to attend grammar at school.

No ISO support ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to use the program once. It seemed that they were hot on pushing their own proprietary CD image format. I could not find ISO support in the version I was using. cdrecord rules!

Re:No ISO support ...

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU ARE DENSE

Re:No ISO support ...

[FLEB]

It's a bit hidden away.

(My experience is relevant to Nero v5. YMMV.)

I, and I imagine most people, would find the "Image Writer", a virtual CD-R that you can use to make only Nero images (.nra). You can do all the things you can do with any other CD-R drive with that, burn a "disc", copy a disc, etc. It only supports .nra, though.

There is, however, a menu-item, "Save Track", that will let you save ISO images, utilizing one of the most confusing and hackneyed file chooser ever.

Nero does support burning from ISOs in the same fashion as .NRA archives.

Re:No ISO support ...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.pcplus.co.uk/tutorials/default.asp?page typeid=2&articleid=5930&subsectionid=377

"If you have a slightly older version, you'll notice that support for ISO images is conspicuous by its absence, and that the program only appears to support Ahead's proprietary NRG image format, which isn't the same. On the surface this is indeed true, but older versions of Nero can still open and burn ISO CD images with a little persuasion and knowledge."

Re:No ISO support ...

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

It only supports .nra, though.

I didn't realize Charlton Heston owned Nero stock...

Is it good?

[nefele]

I'm wondering if more companies releasing Linux versions of their software is actually a good thing for Linux. Since there's so many free (as in speech and beer) software for recording CDs, how much of a market share can Nero for Linux hope to get?
Similarly, with products like the Helix player, is the user base big enough for companies to justify porting to Linux?

The problem is this might discourage companies like Adobe, which develop products that generally have no OSS equivalents (I know, GIMP, but please explain that to graphics artists).

Re:Is it good?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, one interesting thing - almost all linux burning tools are really just wrappers around cdrecord. Now, cdrecord is okay, but the developer is an utter and complete pillock, leading to several distros maintaining their own forks. Nero might have a completely independent codebase. Even such very weak competition might lead to some improvement in cdrecord.

BOGOFREE

[TheWingThing]

It's free if you already bought a license for a Windows version. It asks the serial number of the one you bought already, to download the Linux version. So, it's not "Free-as-in-beer" free. It's just "buy-one-get-one" (BOGO)free. Kinda like BOGOMIPS :D

Re:BOGOFREE

[jisatsusha]

We brits like to call it BOGOF, pronounced "bog off" :)

Wow.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe Microsoft can follow suit and offer free-as-in-beer copies of Paint for Linux if you've registered Windows.

looks like...

[FudRucker]

there was chat about this at linuxquestions.org and OSNews and both places have links to screenshots for Gnome-Toaster and it sure looks like a Nero branded Gnome-Toaster

So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[lonesometrainer]

Would you like to open your beloved OperatingSystem to the mainstream, would you want to see it become a real alternative to Windows, with commercial and proprietary applications?

Then put your comments ("they rather release the source, k3b is a lot better, I want to compile this shit under gentoo") where the sun doesn't shine. Mainstream and real competetion equals to commercial stuff (and the author of this message thinks this is GOOD).

Or do you prefer to stay geekie? Sugar-coke, kernel-hacks, geek-elitism, no sunlight, no showers, spots (and clearasil), jokes about years old bsd-girl-daemon-pics? Then let them know it (and greet the openbsd community in that case).

Decide for yourself.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

what in the fuck are you babbling about you silly bitch?

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

would you want to see it become a real alternative to Windows, with commercial and proprietary applications?

Umm... Hi. There are a few companies selling Linux distributions (SuSE, Red Hat, Mandrake, etc.), all of which are considered real alternatives to Windows. All of them are available commercially. They also each have a completely non-proprietary version. Commercial does not equal Proprietary. And really, grow up, the insults are idiotic. Apparently trolls don't think much.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

So im a "Sugar-coke, kernel-hacks, geek-elitism, no sunlight, no showers, spots (and clearasil), jokes about years old bsd-girl-daemon-pics" type of guy for telling a company I wont buy their software unless its superior to a legally-free alternative? and we want these companies in linux why?

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

You really think so? Have you actually used and maintained a Linux box?

Let's see. Debian. I go apt-get nero. No?

Gentoo. emerge nero. Again no.

Let's see. Will I be able to drag and drop from my KDE or Gnome desktop? Does it fit with the freedesktop standards for menus, etc? And in what way is it better than K3B?

My experience with commercial software on Linux has been universally negative. It tells me what I need to do to have the privilege of running it, including providing some key. I demand a far better experience than I've ever had with commercial software, and for the most part I get it.

Derek

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Shazow]

I second that...

Everyone whines how software companies neglect linux, and now that one actually pays some attention to linux, we scoff and reject them?

Sigh.

- shazow

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[kosmosik]

Please wake up. Hello!

Apache, PHP, Samba, Linux, Darwin etc. - these are all mainstream and open products...

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about running the ./install_nero file?

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Hex4def6]

Hey,
in our defense that girl was smoking hot ;)

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[thank-u-for-sharing]

You seem to be under the impression that linux isn't open to the mainstream. Most people on this forum already knows this isn't true. No one is barred from entry into the the world of linux, not even commercial entities. The linux user-base isn't going to kiss Nero's ring just to encourage commercial software or to make you feel better. I will take your advice though, I will decide for myself. Oh, and one more thing, the name calling, stereotyping, peer-pressure statements were pretty good :)

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Canordis]

The OSI has consistently demonstrated (along with Actual Empirical Evidence) that OSS is superior than commercial software. Linux is a mature, production OS. Mainstream means users. Users like decent software. Nuff' said.

Linux doesn't need commercial software, and the community that builds it, supports it and advocates it doesn't like commercial software. Where commercial software is better than FOSS, te community strives to make FOSS better. So far, all trivial, daily, and common task are covered, with the Linux software being generally better than their commercial equivalents (OpenOffice, Gimp, Firefox).

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[gnarlin]

Mainstream and real competetion equals to commercial stuff

You seem to be harboring under the mistaken assumption that competitive and commercial software cannot be Free software.
As has been pointed out quite often this is not the case (Novell Suse, Redhat, IBM etc.).

From the Free software definition.

``Free software'' does not mean ``non-commercial''. A free program must be available for commercial use, commercial development, and commercial distribution. Commercial development of free software is no longer unusual; such free commercial software is very important.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[EvanED]

The OSI has consistently demonstrated (along with Actual Empirical Evidence) that OSS is superior than commercial software.

For some things.

Photoshop?
Illustrator?
ProTools?
Mathematica ?
After Effects?
Matlab?

I realize there are alternatives to some (especially Matlab Octave), but the others don't even come remotely close for anyone who uses the commercial programs seriously.)

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[KarmaMB84]

Considered real alternatives to Windows? What? Are you on crack? I think only the most zealous frothing-at-the-mouth geeks refuse to admit that GNU/Linux isn't quite ready to take on Windows on anything but servers and workstations. It's getting there. The kernel is probably ready, but the stuff sitting atop needs some work still.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Minna Kirai]

As has been pointed out quite often this is not the case (Novell Suse, Redhat, IBM etc.).

Claiming that GPL-style "Free" software can't be commercial is about as accurate as saying that human beings can't have 11 fingers.

Exceptions to the rule have been encountered from time to time, but for the practical needs of daily life, it's perfectly correct. The standard business model for 99.999% of today's commercial software CANNOT work with the GPL.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[KarmaMB84]

OpenOffice and GIMP? Hah. I'll admit to Firefox as I'm typing in it right now, but the other two? My other machine has the GIMP on it because I don't need a the features of the commercial packages, but I know that it's a pain to use. OpenOffice is horrible. I have no idea how they managed to make it slower on one of my new machines than MS Office on a Pentium 233...

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

What version of MS Office?

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[shutdown -p now]

It's just a matter of time before you can write "emerge nero" and get it installed on Gentoo - you'll just have to put the installer into your distfiles first.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[gnarlin]

99.999% huh?
Well gee-whiz.
Someone better tell those MYSQL people that they cannot pratically be commercial and release their software as free software at the same time as they sell boatloads of support contracts. Not to mention all the software that has recently been freed by IBM which they support commercially. Not to mention apache. That isn't pratically usable commercially. All those email servers out there must be used non-commercially then eh?
I guess Google isn't a commercial entity since they use all that Free software? They must also be wasting good money on that Free software developer they hired.

You might be mistaking commercial software with selling software, which indirectly implies that only propriatery software can be sold.
This is of course nonsense. The business model might be sligtly different since the software itself isn't always sold like individual slices of pizza, but a lot of those companies out there are making software which they use to either support their infrastucture and/or sell support for it to their customers. Just because it isn't being shipped in boxes to a store doesn't mean that the software used isn't commercial. And by the way, you contradicted yourself when you said:

Claiming that GPL-style "Free" software can't be commercial is about as accurate as saying that human beings can't have 11 fingers.

NOTE: This quote will be referenced from hereon as "the finger quote".

and at the end you said:

The standard business model for 99.999% of today's commercial software CANNOT work with the GPL.

NOTE: This quote will be referenced from hereon as "the made up nonsense quote".

Those two lines are obviously contradictory as the former is in accordance with my conclusion (that commercial Free software is widespread and in increasingly heavy use in the industry) while the latter is the exact opposite. I therefore take it that you are in complete agreement with my conclusion since the evidence is so overwhelmingly obvious.

There is also a misconception that software can only be a product from one company but Free software is often developed by many individuals and companies who all see the benefit in spending their resources on it.
Claiming that Free software can't be commercial is about as accurate as saying that most human beings don't have 10 fingers.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or do you prefer to stay geekie? Sugar-coke, kernel-hacks, geek-elitism, no sunlight, no showers, spots (and clearasil), jokes about years old bsd-girl-daemon-pics? Then let them know it (and greet the openbsd community in that case).

You forgot the pretentious "mainstream Linux" trolls on /. we'd really miss them.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[16K Ram Pack]

I generally agree.

However, there are some people I know running Linux desktops and they aren't vocal zealots, it's just what they use. Mostly, they are technical people and also have Linux desktops at work.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[16K Ram Pack]

Spot on.

If people prefer k3b, why do they have a problem with this? Why not say "hey, more choice!" or "great, shows commercial companies are taking it seriously, maybe we'll see better driver support".

If you don't like Nero, use something else. That's your choice. It's not like Nero control a market through protocols (which would be a reason for objection).

Consider Linus' quote "Anybody who tells me I can't use a program because it's not open source, go suck on rms. I'm not interested. 99% of that I run tends to be open source, but that's _my_ choice, dammit."

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Skuto]

>Let's see. Debian. I go apt-get nero. No?

They provide Debian packages, and it should integrate with the desktops (it's GTK).

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Slack3r78]

The problem with every company you've referenced so far as making money off GPL'd software is that they do so through selling support contracts for said software. That just simply doesn't happen with consumer oriented software like Nero where people just buy it once and then use it. In that sense, there business model most certainly isn't compatible with the GPL.

Yes, your parent poster was being a bit ridiculous, but you aren't exactly being entirely rational yourself.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why so many companies does it already. Actually, considering windows an real alternative is funny, considering how non-compatible it is with everything else..(Yes, i know that main "big" software also runs windows, but most small utilities companies uses aren't)

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even Office 97 is more featureful than OpenOffice, so take your pick.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[latroM]

Would you like to open your beloved OperatingSystem to the mainstream, would you want to see it become a real alternative to Windows, with commercial and proprietary applications?

Quoting rms:People justify adding non-free software in the name of the "popularity of Linux"--in effect, valuing popularity above freedom. Sometimes this is openly admitted. For instance, Wired Magazine says Robert McMillan, editor of Linux Magazine, "feels that the move toward open source software should be fueled by technical, rather than political, decisions." And Caldera's CEO openly urged users to drop the goal of freedom and work instead for the "popularity of Linux".

Adding non-free software to the GNU/Linux system may increase the popularity, if by popularity we mean the number of people using some of GNU/Linux in combination with non-free software. But at the same time, it implicitly encourages the community to accept non-free software as a good thing, and forget the goal of freedom. It is no use driving faster if you can't stay on the road.

GNU/Linux was developed because developers wanted freedom. It is not wise to lose it simply because you value popularity more.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[nusuth]

You must be kidding. Firefox is nice but both openoffice and gimp suck. I use openoffice only because I don't need an office suite most of the time and can put up with a slow under-featured memory hog when I need one. OO.org 1.x line is not an option for serious users.

Gimp... You can't possibly use Gimp and its alternatives, then say with a straight face it is better than its commercial alternatives. It sucks even for non-serious use.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[GiMP]

> it should integrate with the desktops (it's GTK).

Yeah, provided you're still running Gnome 1.0.. (it seems to use Gtk 1.x)

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[GiMP]

The gimp is great, I don't see what you have against it. No, it isn't Microsoft paint, it is for more serious users who are interested in investing time into learning it. It isn't for your mother, your wife, or your kid sister.

I think the biggest problems the Gimp traditionally had for users coming from Windows is the need to right-click to access the menu. Also, Windows users are put off by the fact that it doesn't use MDI (multiple windows stuck within a single window). These are not really problems at all, other than simple "Photoshop did it *this way*" complaints. The Gimp was designed for Unix, and its interface reflects that.

Gimp 2.x has resolved one of those issues by adding a menu bar to the top of each image document (which can be disabled), removing the need to right-click. The MDI interface is still gone, thankfully -- although I could see the usefulness under Win32. On Unix the MDI interface is provided by the windowing system (multiple workspaces), so it isn't neccessary, or even wanted.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox is so bloated it is like a joke in comparison to IE. Unfortunately the only real alternative is Opera, which doesn't render pages properly on many sites.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Kihaji]

Let's see. Will I be able to drag and drop from my KDE or Gnome desktop? Does it fit with the freedesktop standards for menus, etc? And in what way is it better than K3B?

Free Linux software doesn't even follow those specifications, and you expect a commercial company to?

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Bert64]

But those of use who are used to having a standard system-wide package management tool don't want to run nonstandard third party installation scripts which usually don't show you what they're doing, often don't provide complete uninstall support and usually don't put files in standard places and DEFINATELY dont integrate with your systemwide package management system.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[Minna Kirai]

Someone better tell those MYSQL people that they cannot pratically be commercial and release their software as free software at the same time as they sell boatloads of support contracts.

Already you've contradicted yourself. The MySQL situation you just described is about people who offer commercial support service for non-commercial software. If you're not collecting money in exchange for access to software, then it isn't really commercial. And, the GPL is incompatible with all of the most natural ways to charge money for software. (Unless you can find a GPL loophole, such as hardware key verification, etc)

but a lot of those companies out there are making software which they use to either support their infrastucture and/or sell support for it to their customers.

Such business models aren't long-term viable. You can be a support company, or a software company, or even a support company which does incidental software programming on the side- but a software development company that gets paid through support fees won't last.

That fact is, that for high quality software in most fields, the need for support should be low. As software improves over time, it becomes more and more able to run without expert support for normal uses. (Just look at the history of Microsoft's DOS to Windows 3.1 to Windows95 to WindowsXP. The degree of support needed to achieve the same results has gone down and down). If the software is any good, there will be other dedicated support companies undercutting the fees charged by the original developers, whose costs are higher.

For the majority of software categories, paid support is not a plausible revenue source- certainly not in the long term. This is the perverse incentive of free software: if programmers earn their money by explaining how to use their software, then improving the software will actually cost the developers money. So they have no financial incentive to fix it.

the former is in accordance with my conclusion (that commercial Free software is widespread and in increasingly heavy use in the industry)

Huh? You actually think that eleven-fingered humans are widespread and an increasingly heavy presecense in the population??

Those two lines are obviously contradictory as the former is in accordance with my conclusion

They're not contradictory, unless you have more precise statistics on what percentage of human beings are born with 11 fingers. I don't know myself (because doctors are so quick to slice off the extra digits, measurement is difficult), so I admit the 99.999% figure was just a guess. The meaning was that the GPL is incompatible with commericial software development in all normal cases, or 99.999% of the time.

my conclusion since the evidence is so overwhelmingly obvious.

Both of those links support my position that Free Software can rarely be commercially marketed.

Re:So... dear Linux community what do YOU want?

[nusuth]

Your comment made me install and try a recent version of Gimp. It seems OK, Since I haven't invested time into learning it and don't plan to do so, I'll take your word for it.

Might be free after all

[Anonymous Coward]

Depending on what exactly they mean by "downloaded version".

uhh who cares?

[koreaman]

cdrecord and mkisofs work for me.

Re:uhh who cares?

[Antique Geekmeister]

Not for DVD's, you usually need growisofs for burning those.

Re:uhh who cares?

[DustyShadow]

For Linux to get past the "learning curve", if you will, and onto a normal user's desktop, it needs to be more user friendly. My mom and dad are never going to use the command line.

Re:uhh who cares?

[koreaman]

Then they can use k3b.

Re:uhh who cares?

[arose]

That's why we have Nautilus: insert a blank CDR, drag files, burn.

Re:uhh who cares?

[helix_r]

uhh,

Because its a colossal pain the ass to deal with cdrecord directly-- that's why every week there is a new gui that attempts to wrap cdrecord so that people don't have to waste their time figuring out how to do something that should be trivial.

Sadly most of these attempts produce piss-poor gui software. Perhaps this is a step in the right direction. At least, it might inspire someone to create a truly easy to use burner app.

Re:uhh who cares?

[Kihaji]

Guess what, they will still work for you. This is another *choice*, and it comes from a commercial company at that, something very uncommon in todays market. The reason that Nero is a good thing, is the same reason the OSS community feels the need for 7billion text editors, choice.

This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cut the free software crap. This is a mainstream company willing to take pay-per-use apps on Linux seriously.

Don't forget that the OS itself is pretty much commodity. Its the apps that count, and for a mature and *decent* app to make it to Linux is important news.

Re:This *is* important.

[Rashkae]

I would almost agree, except, as others pointed out, they are a dollar short and several days late.

5 years ago, hell, even 2 years ago, I would have seen value in a decent burning GUI. Since then, we have K3B and the new Gnome whatchamacallit, that both do the same thing, better, support more formats, and are not hindered by little things like CSS.... Sooo, how seriously can they be taking this product?

This might even cause OSS harm. Now hardware companies can make proprietary changes to the hardware interface, say, for copy protection. When people complain that Linux can't use the hardware, they can reasonably point to Nero as a burning solution. So not only does this not bring anything new or desirable to the desktop, it can be used to further hinder development of truly open and free systems.

Re:This *is* important.

[rbochan]

...This is a mainstream company willing to take pay-per-use apps on Linux seriously....

Yes, and that's nice and all, but they're scratching an itch that's already been scratched - for ages now - and with superb tools that have zero cost to the end user.
Sheesh... you can only use the "free" version of NeroLINUX if you've paid for a Microsoft Windows version. So, if you don't even use Microsoft Windows, you have to buy an app for it anyway. No thanks.

Re:This *is* important.

[malkavian]

Hmm.. The fact a commercial company released a product says they're at least reasonably serious about it. They did, after all, pay developers to put it out there..

As to how it can cause OSS harm.. Where on earth did you get that from? Nero producing a product has nothing to do with hardware companies making proprietary changes. They've always been able to do that, and always have. Can you say "Winmodem" or "Windows Printer"? Both designed with proprietary interfaces which Linux can't use.
The former I stayed well away from, the latter, well, I run a Konica Minolta magicolour 2300W. Works just fine from my Linux boxes.

Now, if someone produced hardware that linux just couldn't talk to, then Nero would be stuffed, as it wouldn't be able to use the api to talk to the hardware anyway, at least until a driver writer finds a way to talk to the hardware properly again.

It may just have skipped past your attention, but the whole 'trusted computing' initiative is heading to put just those copy controls in every device.
Now, if Nero has the bits built in there to cope with it from the moment it's released, and the rest of the open tools lag, at least there's some product out there that can handle the slack until Open works it out, and gets back in the game.
If it doesn't, no big deal. People use what they feel like.

I think about twelve years back, you'd have been one of those voices saying "Linux. That gives us nothing new. It's just another UNIX alike. What do we need that for? It'll only hamper the BSDs and not provide us with anything worthwhile in return!".

A product is a product. I'm glad Nero are in the market. They're offering something to compliment their windows product, for those people that may be wanting to move from Windows to Linux, and just want something they already know and are familiar with.

Anything that makes the transition easier is a great thing.

The great thing about OSS is it's a really open market. You can charge what you want for your product (including free). Nero want money for you to be able to have their product (you have to have the retail version, or buy one to get it). That's fine! If you don't want it, don't get it. Nobody uses it, and it'll go away (just like MusicMatch Jukebox for Linux did way back when).
But, it's there. And there are some more developers who've been exposed to Linux.
And as Ballmer is always chanting, it's all about "Developers, developers, developers".

Re:This *is* important.

[natrius]

What most people don't seem to realize is that this is a bad thing for commercial software on Linux. Nero's venture will fail, and other companies will be discouraged by it.

Utility applications like CD burning programs aren't hard to replicate, as there are a certain set of features that need to be implemented to satisfy almost all users. Most people need to burn audio and data CDs, and an emerging need is burning home movies onto DVDs. The first two have already been done by open source programs, and the third will be done eventually. From what I hear, Nero has more features that make it useful, but I don't think it provides enough marginal utility to be worth $100. Nero has succeeded in the Windows world largely due to their distributon deals with OEMs. However, their Linux product will not be profitable. The Linux version doesn't even have the extra features that make the Windows version attractive, but assuming that it eventually does, they won't be worth $100 to most people. The Linux version won't get them any extra distribution, and Linux users who buy CD burners already pay Nero money anyway. The extra effort spent on a Linux port won't be worth it, and they'll soon figure that out.

There is room for commercial software on Linux, but it has to be innovative software to succeed. There has to be something that the company continues to provide that hasn't been replicated by the eventual open source implementation of their product. Competing with free is possible, but not in Nero's case. Competing with Free is even harder.

Re:This *is* important.

[cgenman]

Yes, but when someone asks "How do I burn CD's on Linux?" you can say "just like windows, use Nero." Ignoring the fact that Windows XP has an excellent built-in CD burning tool that is inline with the file system, people recognize Nero as CD burning. Telling them to use the "Gnome whatchamacallit" is not just not going to ring with people, not matter how much better the software really is.

Saying that you see value in a decent burning GUI is entirely besides the point. What you need are big names as assurances that a platform is not a flash in the pan. With bigname 3D rendering packages supporting Linux, you can now point to Hollywood and say that Linux is going to be around in 5 years. Whether or not you personally need to setup a linux-based renderfarm at a 20k per year per seat is irrelevant. Having the defacto CD/DVD burning suite available on Linux means that someone considering switching to Linux doesn't have to worry whether or not they're going to have adequate CD / DVD burning support. Even if there are better things out there, this is good enough to allay that concern. It's not the quality of the software that is important, but the public's perception of the platform that is important.

Getting Nero for Linux is a definite small step forwards. You can shout until you're blue in the face that kGNOme3B is better than anything else out there, but being able to tell a potential convert that "we've got Nero, and things even better than that," is much more convincing. Real too. And Firefox has made enough of a name for itself that it's also recognized. Now we just need MSOffice, or CodeWeavers to have the cajones to glue together an MS Office box and a CrossOver office box and sell it at retail, and we're all set.

Re:This *is* important.

[_Sprocket_]

It may just have skipped past your attention, but the whole 'trusted computing' initiative is heading to put just those copy controls in every device.
Now, if Nero has the bits built in there to cope with it from the moment it's released, and the rest of the open tools lag, at least there's some product out there that can handle the slack until Open works it out, and gets back in the game.
If it doesn't, no big deal. People use what they feel like.

Actually - I believe that's exactly what he's talking about. It's you that's missed something.

Take a look at CSS. In order to read a DVD, you need to be able to handle CSS. And to do that, you're supposed to be a licensee.

Of course, one such lincensee screwed up and left all licensee's keys available for plunder (though at the same time the CSS encryption was also broken). This made it possible for an infamous hacker to write a nifty bit of code that allows one to access the DVD without being a licensee.

The industry reps cried piracy. But DeCSS was a much needed step towards Free Software having fair use access to the media their owners purchased. The interesting bit here is that the community could point to the reverse engineering for compatibility clause of the DMCA and press on. As much as Industry reps would talk up soon-to-come licensed DVD players for Linux... they were a very, very long time coming.

That's the history and the background for the argument. If the Next Big Thing in "Digital Rights Management" sweeps the hardware world and Nero brings immediate compatability to Linux... will Open Source developers still be covered by that DMCA clause?

Re:This *is* important.

[Luke-Jr]

Except that the big reason Linux-based OS are superior to many *nix OS is because they are based on moral software. If you make GNU/Linux systems proprietary, you defeat a big amount of the reason to use it at all, thus it doesn't matter what random apps support it.

Re:This *is* important.

[Rashkae]

Let's take this argument to the next logical step.. Why use Linux at all? People reconize the name Windows.. so when they ask, "What do I do now that I have a new computer?" you can just say, "Install Windows, everyone's familiar with it."... Now, I have nothing agaisnt proprietary/commercial software per say, but I expect it to, at the least, bring something of value to the table.

Re:This *is* important.

[cgenman]

If your goal was to sell someone who didn't have a computer on having a computer at all, then yes, sell them on Windows. They'll have a much easier time finding games they like, and getting support from their friends.

And when they're ready, you sell them on Mandrake. You show them a live CD on their system. You give them apps they're familiar with to lure them over to the better OS. You show them how most of the software can be automatically downloaded and installed by just asking for it. You show them crossover office and the Linux gaming community.

And when they're ready, you sell them on Gentoo, Portage, and even better burning software. You show them how to compile everything for their own system. You teach them how to write their own shell scripts to automate tedious tasks, and how to install and setup servers on their home machine for easier remote access.

And when they've gone through all of that and they're ready for the ultimate Linux experience, you sell them an iBook.

The big names do bring something of value to the table. They bring security. Not the Linux "I'm not going to be hacked" kind of security, but a security that if these other possibilities don't work out, at least you have this devil you know to fall back on. It's the kind of reassurance that most people need before they'll switch to a new system.

As I've said, even on Windows XP Nero is redundant for most people. But it brings legitimacy and security for people who don't know the ropes, and those are exactly the kinds of people that need to be brought into the Linux fold if 2005,6,7,8, or 9 is to be the "year of the Linux desktop."

Re:This *is* important.

[Canordis]

Cut the OS-is-not-important crap. Speed, reliability and also the quality and quantity of apps depend on having a good OS. Without the well-designed kernel and tools, there would be none of the great APIs, libraries and toolkits that make Linux programming a much easier task.

And besides, Linux already has free (as beer and speech) utilities for burning CDs. They're cheaper, and probably better and more reliable than Nero could ever hope to be. Nero is irrelevant.

Re:This *is* important.

[Minna Kirai]

It may just have skipped past your attention, but the whole 'trusted computing' initiative is heading to put just those copy controls in every device.

You answered your own question. Since NERO will support trusted computing, it will help accelerate the adoption of TC. And since TC is antithetical to OSS (because TC cannot work if users are able to recompile their own software), then NeroLinux is naturally harmful.

Re:This *is* important.

[Minna Kirai]

Hopefully you were joking/trolling, right?

If your goal was to sell someone who didn't have a computer on having a computer at all, then yes, sell them on Windows.

No! Absolutely wrong. Give them Mandrake (or whatever your favorite Linux distro is) immediately, before they get used to Windows.

Remember that a person who, in 2005, hasn't owned a computer yet is probably going to need an above-average amount of handholding and troubleshooting, and to be especially clueless about security practices. Also, a non-computer user will probably have few application needs outside of web/email/light wordproc, so the limitations of Linux app support won't bother him.

And since YOU will be the one she turns to to fix and maintain everything, you want her on Linux from the start.

Re:This *is* important.

[duffbeer703]

Give me a break.

There are people who dislike Linux CD-Burning tools or even those with older distros installed who don't feel like reading docs and upgrading their kernels window & managers to get a new cd-burning app.

So the Nero folks saw this as an opportunity to sell their excellent product.

Most people choose the best tools for the job. The availability of commercial tools does not harm "open and free" systems. Has the avaiability of Oracle, Informix & DB2 affected the development of MySQL or Postgres?

No -- if anything they've improved the free systems by raising the quality bar.

Re:This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now at least think of it as a value add for people who have bought their software. It will make it easier for a certain segment to be comfortable using linux. I don't think it is really that big of a deal, the frontends for burning cds in linux are rather good. Even nautilus does a half decent job, the right click to write an iso is rather nice.

Re:This *is* important.

[cgenman]

Honestly, I want them to get a Mac first, and be done with it. But the people I've tried this route with was mad that they couldn't run "X", where "X" is some windows-only application or game that all of their friends were running. They didn't yet have the technical sophistication to relize that equivalent functionality equals an equivalent program. All they knew was that their friends were watching "The O.C," and they were rejecting being fed a show that everyone said was "just like the O.C." or "even better than the O.C."

I wish I was joking. Trust me. But people have to realize that Windows has major problems on their own. Otherwise they'll always see the grass as greener.

Re:This *is* important.

[gnarlin]

Don't you mean "Digital Restriction Management" ?

Re:This *is* important.

[Frogbert]

Yes because nero completely failed to compete with Windows XP's built in CD burning.

Re:This *is* important.

[realkiwi]

xcdroast is my GUI of choice

I have been using on Linux and on Mac for well over 2 years.

It also supports firewire. No firewire support noted on the Nero page...

Re:This *is* important.

[StarsAreAlsoFire]

Dude, that's Roxio crapware that is built in... it is most 100% certainly *NOT* excellent burning software. Its bloody horrible actually. 'Progress' dialog boxes that don't actually tell you they are done (always says 'cancel'), dozens of coasters, made on demand....

Yech. Horrible memories. Uni left that on there. Ugh.

Can't argue with the rest, as I rather agree :~)

Cheers,

Re:This *is* important.

[Ilgaz]

Its a joke yes? We speak about Nero here.

As a OS X user, all this "use command line free" thing makes me laugh. No, I won't use some sort of stupid command with arguments to burn a single file to cd.

Ahead should go for OS X port. Very, very bad decision!

Re:This *is* important.

[eadon-com]

Disclaimer: As a Java developer that prefers Linux as the dev environment over Windows, I have a professional desire for Linux to become the platform of the future. In my opinion this is an omen of things to come. This is another drip, if you will, on the forehead of Bill Gates, in what shall become a Chinese water torture of drips, that, to change analogies midstream, shall become acidic and corrode his continued domination of the world. This event has elevated the visibility of Linux within at least one corporation, and ripples shall emanate from there. Geeks that moan that this is not open source software should realise that this product complements, rather than replaces open source software. And without complements, open source itself shall not be as rich.

Re:This *is* important.

[xgamer04]

I don't live in Germany, but Ahead (makers of Nero) is a German company. Linux seems to be sorta popular there. What I'm stretching to say in my sleepy haze is that I dunno, maybe the market is ready for it there.

Re:This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like how you included DVD encoding software which is not legally available under Linux, and if it was it would cost $$$.

Re:This *is* important.

[m50d]

Yes, but if you have already paid for it, *you don't lose your money by migrating*. Which should make it easier to migrate people.

Re:This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I won't use some sort of stupid command with arguments to burn a single file to cd.

There are no stupid commands, just stupid users.

Re:This *is* important.

[m50d]

It did. It's only alive because it comes with every CD burner sold. Seriously.

Re:This *is* important.

[natrius]

Uh... who encrypts their own videos with CSS? There is a such thing as unencrypted DVDs.

Re:This *is* important.

[natrius]

Windows XP's CD burning isn't feature complete. It's restricted on purpose to make third party programs attractive. Like I said before, users don't buy Nero (usually). OEMs do. They only buy it because they think their customers would be pissed off to buy a CD burner and not be able to burn what they want. Once doing that is free and preinstalled, OEMs won't by Nero.

Re:This *is* important.

[gregorio]

Since then, we have K3B and the new Gnome whatchamacallit, that both do the same thing, better, support more formats, and are not hindered by little things like CSS.... Sooo, how seriously can they be taking this product?

Well. The K3B development group is really serious about Nero: they kind of copied almost every single GUI item out of Nero's interface.

Just two examples: Nero K3B.

My point? You can't compare a clone with the real thing. Unless OSS apps start to really innovate instead of just being cheap knock-offs, you can't just ditch the proprietary side of software development.

Companies like Adaptec and Nero are the ones who created all the CD-Writing GUI abstraction that we recognise as "CD-Writing Software" today. So this kind of "we are better than everyone" attitude of yours is not valid. At all.

Re:This *is* important.

[StormReaver]

"What most people don't seem to realize is that this is a bad thing for commercial software on Linux. Nero's venture will fail, and other companies will be discouraged by it."

Don't get too worked up just yet. What people will see is that a proprietary company is releasing for Linux a proprietary Windows remake of a piece of software that had been obsoleted on Linux by a FOSS equilvilent years ago.

In other words, people will see Nero being a dollar short and years too late. If Nero had seen the light 3 to 5 years ago, it would have had a chance. But trying to horn in on established commodity Free and free spaces with a non-Free, non-free, commodity application is laughable at best.

Companies that provide their innovative software on Linux at the same time they provide it on Windows will be regarded as leaders forging new markets. ID Software and Epic Games are two good examples.

Companies that provide yesteryear's obsolesence on Linux, or provide a horribly mangled effort, will be viewed as struggling and desperate. Corel and Nero are two good examples.

Re:This *is* important.

[latroM]

Cut the free software crap.

This free software crap brought you GNU/Linux and all the free software we love.

Re:This *is* important.

[glacote02]

Unless they come up with a "distribution deal" with some distribution, possibly a paid-for distribution like Xandros or Lycoris ?

Re:This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

I meant that you can drag-n-drop files to a blank CD in explorer, without opening any applications, and burn from there.

That's Roxio based?

Re:This *is* important.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not CSS. MPEG-2 encoders cost money.

Re:This *is* important.

[Reziac]

It's just the DirectCD component of Roxio, interfaced via the "Send To" menu. And it doesn't exactly make coasters, but it does typically fail to close the session (and it does something funky to the 8+3 filenames), so the resulting CD is not usually readable on non-XP boxen; also, whatever it does tends to leave only the most recent session readable.

Good for quick and dirty sneakernet disks, but I wouldn't rely on it for anything else.

Re:This *is* important.

[Reziac]

In my observation, Nero succeeded *wholly* because of OEM disty deals -- and then only because as I heard it, the OEM lic. fee was a mere $5. So Nero became very much cheaper to bundle than Roxio (which formerly had most of the OEM market), thus highly attractive in a market with tiny margins. But private individuals hardly ever went out and *bought* Nero. Maybe never.

But which one continues to sell on the retail store shelves? Roxio.

I think Nero is trying to suck money out of an entirely imaginary retail market. IMO that also explains the horrible Nero Express -- "we'll sell OEMs a shitty nonfunctional version, so everyone who buys their CDRWs will then buy an upgrade to Nero-the-real-thing." Well, it doesn't work that way in real life. Rather, people see "Nero Express is shitty" and go looking for something else entirely to buy, having learned only to distrust the Nero name. (Or they just pirate Nero-realversion, which IMO is perfectly fair since we already paid for the entirely nonfunctional Nero Express when we bought that CDRW drive.)

This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[TheWanderingHermit]

I misread this the first time through and thought it was saying a free version was available for Linux -- and didn't see the part about you had to have a registered Windows version. Even without the extra gotcha, this made me realize how important free (as in speech) software is to me.

I started using Linux somewhere around 1998, and moved everything (except compatibility testing) around 2000/2001. Since then I learned how to add almost any program or game I wanted with rpm -ivh {package_name}, then urpmi {package_name}, and now apt-get install {package_name}. It's not just the ease of use, but knowing that it is available, to me and anyone who wants it, that I can modify it or pay to have it modified, that I can help debug it, and even suggest new features.

I (mis)read this story and my first thoughts were, 1) Why bother, I've got programs that do almost all, to 2) But it's hard to do some of the DVD authoring that Nero will help with, to 3) But Nero controls it.

That's when I realized how important FOSS is to me and my company. I hadn't realized that I actually avoid commercial software now, and prefer FOSS, since I can make bug reports, make suggestions, and even modify if I need to. I also realized I do NOT want software (any more) that another company controls and can decide to remove from the market, or bastardize so it's no longer the program I liked. If it's FOSS, I know I'll almost always be able to find an older version if I need it, and that I can always locate it and re-install it easily if it gets horked.

So let Nero do what they want. I know in a year or two we'll see better DVD authoring under Linux (and eventually even see professional video editing in FOSS). This story helped me realize I can no longer deal with paying for software with fewer freedoms than that which apt-get installs for me. I don't want software someone else has total control over. (Okay, well maybe Myst and it's sequals, but we all know games are another story...)

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus, noone asked for your linux-erotic love story. Get a room.

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[Anne Honime]

Thank you for expressing better than I could the exact same feeling I have about this issue. [No karma bonus, just wanted to acknowledge a good post and sadly missing mod points]

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Free Software is important to me also.
If it really is important to you, you should consider calling the system GNU or GNU/Linux instead of Linux

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[kosmosik]

>I misread this the first time through and thought
>it was saying a free version was available for
>Linux -- and didn't see the part about you had to
> have a _registered_Windows_version_.

That is untrue, you only need to have serial key which you f.e. can get when you buy new BOXED CDRW set with Nero 6 included... You don't need any Windows.

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[Anonymous Coward]

But you do need the Windows version of Nero, whether it be a serial number or boxed edition. They don't make Nero for any other platforms, until now.

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, I considered it!

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[phrasebook]

I hadn't realized that I actually avoid commercial software now, and prefer FOSS, since I can make bug reports, make suggestions, and even modify if I need to.

So what. Plenty more people actually avoid FOSS software since they don't have to make bug reports, don't have to rely on others to make bug reports for them, don't have to make any suggestions for incomplete programs, and especially so that they don't need to entertain the idea of modifying programs to get them to do what they need or want.

I also realized I do NOT want software (any more) that another company controls and can decide to remove from the market, or bastardize so it's no longer the program I liked.

This I agree with. ACDSee, Adobe Acrobat, Eudora, Netscape, so many Windows programs have gone to the shitter.

If it's FOSS, I know I'll almost always be able to find an older version if I need it

I don't think this is realistic though. There are plenty of people who don't like GNOME thesedays, but you sure as hell aren't going to find them running and maintaining 1.4. Old software goes down the drain, no matter whether the code is out there or not.

but we all know games are another story..

They're not another story. The way you look at games is the way most people look at any and all software.

Re:This Makes Me See How Important FOSS Is To Me

[strider44]

Nope OEM versions don't allow you to get NeroLINUX.

The company

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't called nero but it's called ahead.

Re:The company

[RautenkranzMT]

Incorrect. They changed their name to nero some short time ago. Almost certain an article was on /. about it.

Commercial Desktop App

[Anonymous Coward]

Despite there being open source burning programs, I think it is positive to see commercial desktop software being developed for Linux.

I am not trying to say Nero is better/worse than the alternatives, but now there is an additional alternative -- and software companies focusing on desktop apps are starting to take a Linux desktop more seriously.

Re:Commercial Desktop App

[QuantumG]

This is true. It's great to be able to say to people "hey, you don't need to switch to Windows to have your freedoms trampled, we've got all the proprietary software you need right here on Linux!" Honestly, why would anyone rational person choose to use a proprietary product over an open source one if they're both technically equivilent? Oh wait, users aint rational.

Re:Commercial Desktop App

[latroM]

Yeah, people forget the ideals of GNU when they say only linux and that makes it easy to bundle non-free software. Say free software if you value freedom, not open source :>.

Re:Commercial Desktop App

[aztracker1]

Honestly, I like Nero, and I haven't found anything for me that works better under Linux.. I've tried a few things, and honestly a *LOT* of it has gotten better in the past few years.

I welcome Nero to Linux... and in all honesty, I hope it does insanely well, I don't entirely like having to "REGISTER" for the linux version, as opposed to being able to simply buy it... I've been using Nero since v4, and it's gotten better each release. May just register to get the linux version, wish I really didn't *have* to, but that's the way it goes..

There are a few other tools that I like on windows that aren't out for linux... I like trillian much better than say GAIM, if that goes the linux route, may just convert.. I can do my .Net development under mono now, and OOo does all I need in office, I already use Thunderbird and Firefox for mail/web. There's very little holding me back now, save the time to convert my box, games, and a few other pieces of software.

I have a spare box with linux on it, and may update to FC3, and see how/if nero runs on it (website focuses on RH though).. :)

Star Wars III Rendered on Windows XP

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comments.php?catid=1& id=12312

Microsoft said that famous upcoming Star Wars Episode III, Revenge of the sith was rendered on beta version in Windows 64 bit.

This means this operating system like a desirable option even in its beta stage was good enough to render a state of the art movie. The company called Jak Movies decided to go for Windows 64 bit since it was faster to render under 64 bit windows.

This version of Windows is almost ready to meet all the Athlon 64, FX, Pentium Four and Celerons which support it and this is just a start of the new marchitecture. Its interesting to know that such a massive project where actually done with Windows and its 64 bit beta version. Many of us is waiting for that movie for a long time and we will see what 64 bit windows software and tools powered with nice artists where able to make.

Good thing

[teslatug]

Before discovering K3B, a CD/DVD burning software was the main thing I was missing under Linux. K3B is nice, but Nero (at least under Windows) had a lot more options.

Re:Good thing

[Klivian]

>K3B is nice, but Nero (at least under Windows) had a lot more options.
Then the real question is, do you use any of those options you find in Nero that K3B don't have?

Re:Good thing

[teslatug]

Well, no, since K3B doesn't have them. For example, I wouldn't mind a VCD option out of the box (getting vcdimager, compiling source, finding out missing libcdio, getting the dependency resolved,... is not fun).

Re:Good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Then get a real distribution that has these packages pre-built. I know Debian and its derivatives do. I can't speak for the others.

Re:Good thing

[Klivian]

>no, since K3B doesn't have them.
Let me refrase then, which options from Nero are you missing in K3B?

>a VCD option out of the box, [snip]getting the dependency resolved,... is not fun
This is a problem with you distribution not K3B, take it up with them.

Re:Good thing

[teslatug]

Is there a distro that includes every dependency for every OS project out there? If there is, I sure don't want to run such bloatware. Why can't these projects offer an option of including every dependency they need instead of making you hunt for them?

This is yesterday's news

[Anonymous Coward]

In yesterday's news: "NeroLinux - Nero CD Burning App comes to Linux" I suggested this story a day or two ago, but as usual, it wasn't posted. I included that article & discussion in my submission as well, but of course none of that matters now. Thanks again, I love being rejected.

Re:This is yesterday's news

[Anonymous Coward]

go back to #suse and shut up you silly fucker

Re:This is yesterday's news

[Anonymous Coward]

Yesterday's News indeed. I guess I need a time machine for the next time I submit a story here.

Title wrong?

[commodoresloat]

I thought Nero fiddled while Linux burned.

Re:Title wrong?

[Dachannien]

Gonzo: I call it, "Gonzo fiddles, while George Burns!"
George Burns: Finally, a joke that's as old as I am.

Re:Title wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

No offense, but it's a CD burner with the name "Nero." The Roman humor is already implied. If you think you just came up with it now, you are awfully, awfully slow on the uptake.

Re:Title wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot about ROM. Nero Burning ROM. Get it? ROM... Rome...

is that GTK 1.x?

[Anonymous Coward]

is that GTK 1.x????
What the hell?

Migration....

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course this is useful. It is a familiar application for a Windows user considering a migration to Linux.

Take a simple question:"How will I burn CDs?"

The answer could be as simple as "You use Nero, right? Well, it's available for Linux and it's free if you still have your licence number."

Most users have their own familiar suite of programs. The more direct the replacement that is available the better - less learning curve for new Linux users and consequently less chance that the prospective new user will give up in frustration.

Slashdot 2 days late?

[BestNicksRTaken]

This has already been discussed to death on osnews.com and fedoraforum.org

Essentially it is using the GnomeToaster GUI under license (not GPL) with a Nero API/drivers backend.

It's closed source and doesn't include Nero Recode (aka DVD Shrink) or anything other than Nero Burning ROM.

Re:Slashdot 2 days late?

[QuantumG]

Ummm.. duh! Everyone here knows that Slashdot picks up the "generated lots of pageviews" stories from OSNews. They don't even have to be good stories (500 people saying "that's braindead" is enough). I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a script.

SELECT story_text FROM OSNews WHERE count(comments) > 300" ...

Firefox Spyware infects IE?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.vitalsecurity.org/2005/03/firefox-spywa re-infects-ie.html

What if there was an infection out there that could bypass Firefox and still get its grubby little paws on IE, and from there, the heart of your OS? What if that same infection could get past not only FF, but a whole raft of other (supposedly more secure) browsers too?

What if, of all people, Neil Diamond was indirectly involved in this craziness?

The answer is, some sneaky coding is being used to get around your browser of choice. Upon visiting the target website, nothing happens. Nothing that is, unless you have Sun Java Runtime Environment installed on the host machine. And seeing how everyone is being urged to turn away from Microsoft's Java in favour of Sun's version, this could spell problems for browsers currently lording it over IE.

right on

[tloh]

I feel most of the opinions here so far are pretty on target. This is nothing more than a ploy by Nero to expose more linux using eyeballs to the Nero brand name, which as has already been pointed out, is not really useful to anyone. Nero's new offering doesn't really distinguish itself in any way among the existing burning tools for the Linux platform. Their distribution policy doesn't really extend the user base beyond those already using Nero under Windows, so what is the point from their perspective???

must mean that MS is doing a CD burner

[WindBourne]

It seems like companies that port to Linux only do so on the downturn, never while they are hot. I am guessing that MS must be taking away space from Nero.

Re:must mean that MS is doing a CD burner

[Ilgaz]

Ever used the built in recording of XP? I mean, did you really use? They copied from OS X but as usual, very very bad copy.

Wmedia burning is a joke too.

MS can't take space from Nero etc.

While OS X Finder / Disk Utilities does job of burning, I plan to upgrade to Toast 6 titanium later.

Re:must mean that MS is doing a CD burner

[todorb]

well, what do you have to say about this then? this company doesn't seem to be in decline these days...

Re:must mean that MS is doing a CD burner

[16K Ram Pack]

Tend to agree.

The only thing is that Nero, like so many others may see two things. Firstly, a lot of people are going Linux, and secondly, Microsoft have a tendency to catch up.

plugins

[glrotate]

A feature I find helpfull are the plugins. They allow drag and drop of FLACs WMAs or just about any other filetype you can think of.

Re:plugins

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

A feature I find helpfull are the plugins. They allow drag and drop of FLACs WMAs or just about any other filetype you can think of.

I wonder what happens if you drag-and-drop /dev/cdwriter in NeroLINUX... :-)

Free as in Emperor

[LittleGuernica]

As this Roman emperor sets foot on this free -as in beer- open source land he is welcomed in a cool manner he didn't expect.

Nero is a fine piece of software and it's a good thing that a good app like that is coming to Linux. If you ever want Linux to make it big (as in desktop), which I doubt some people would want, because Linux would lose the "cult" status it has now,you need programs like this available on Linux.

Linux, if you want it to penetrate the home desktop, has to grow up, because let's be honest, KDE still looks like shit and it's the closest you get to a good GUI...

Re:Free as in Emperor

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it is. But trying to convince the tree huggers otherwise will just give you a headache.

Re:Free as in Emperor

[Anonymous Coward]

KDE still looks like shit

What, do you honestly think that Plastik (see KDE 3.4 RC1) looks worse than, say, WinXP? Are you insane, or just a really bad troll?

Re:Free as in Emperor

[LittleGuernica]

No trolling here..

To be quite honest, I really think it looks worse. It looks like the bastard child of XP and OSX. it doesn't look original of innovative.

it looks a lot better than most linux interfaces, but itstill looks like one of those fictional interfaced that are used in "24" or something..

It just doesn't blow me aways when I see it, but maybe I'm spoiled because I use a mac...

meh

[wurd]

good for them for acknowledging linux, but i like K3B a lot more than anything i've used under windows, including nero. but hey, competition is a good thing so keep em coming.

So do I, but I doubt it

[WindBourne]

k3b is pretty good. The only real problem with it, is that it tries to do everything. I think that kio_burn will be good competition for the average users.

Re:So do I, but I doubt it

[bird603568]

I was being scarcastic

Re:So do I, but I doubt it

[Zorilla]

I actually do hope it's better than K3B. It shouldn't be too hard to surpass a program that feels the need to entirely ignore the record speed I select.

Re:So do I, but I doubt it

[gnarlin]

Perhaps you aren't in the cdrw group. Some distros limit the writing speed if you arent in it.
I was often irritated by that as well :-/

Re:So do I, but I doubt it

[drsquare]

And they say Linux isn't ready for the desktop! I for one have problems burning DVDs under Linux, it only seems to write at 0.5 speed, even though the drive AND the disks go up to 8 speed. K3b seems to ignore the speed I select, and using the command-line utilities directly gives the same result.

Although it's good that Linux by default comes with free CD/DVD burning utilities, rather than making you hunt the Internet for one which doesn't either contain spyware or mean giving up your credit card number.

Catch-22 as usual...

[supabeast!]

If a commercial software vendor doesn't support linux people bitch. If a commercial software vendor does support it people bitch that the software isn't GPL. If the software gets GPL'd, people bitch that it hasn't been ported to their distros of choice.

And then the linux community wonders why so few companies bother to code for linux.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

I could really care less about trivial CD burning software. Now if there was a Linux version of Cubase, Logic, Sonar, or Photoshop I would be more than happy to pay $200+.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that even if they fulfill all their "demands" they still bitch about some other proprietary software not available on their system.

Ah, yes. The free software community. RMS^2.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

I could really care less about trivial CD burning software. Now if there was a Linux version of Cubase, Logic, Sonar, or Photoshop I would be more than happy to pay $200+.

Sure you would. Just like everyone else, until they'd figure out the software is not GPLed and then start bashing it all over.

History repeats itself too many times in the Linux community.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, people wouldn't bash it, not people that have a real use for the software (for their job etc). There is no Linux alternative for Logic Audio.

People are bashing Ahead because there already is an abundance of CD burning applications for Linux.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[sloanster]

How does flamebait like that get modded as informative? Sure, you can always find extremists if you look, but most Linux users are like me: quite pragmatic, and ready to pull out the wallet to pay for good quality linux products.

The reaction I'm seeing here has been fairly positive, gievn that nero really isn't providing anything I can get very excited about (buy a microsoft windows version I'll never use, in order to get a "free" linux version?) but in general we welcome more vendors to the linux marketplace.

I like k3b, but I'm always willing to check out the alternatives, and hopefully one day I'll be able to buy nero for linux without the useless microsoft baggage.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

And then the linux community wonders why so few companies bother to code for linux.

Right! Those Windows users never bitch about anything!
--

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[porp]

What the hell kind of name is Yossarian anyway?

porp

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[cortana]

You appear not to have noticed... it might seem strange, surprising, maybe even a little confusing to you, but Slashdot has more than one reader.

Some of the members of this plurality of readers even have differing opinions. That's why (in theory) the discussions that acompany each story are interesting.

Of course in practice, story discussions consist entirely of whiners, trolls and clueless fucktards who don't even read the fucking article.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[deathguppie]

If a commercial software vendor doesn't support linux people bitch

Yes, there are many, many commercial applications out there that I would buy if they were available on linux. As long as I am bitching. How about IBM releasing their port of Catia.

If a commercial software vendor does support it people bitch that the software isn't GPL

I am the proud owner of about 6 non-GPL games that were ported to linux. The problem is those are the only truly reasonably useful products that have been offered to the average user. I truly feel bad about this but I just won't use NeroLinux. How about something truly useful like some Macromedia Studio.

If the software gets GPL'd, people bitch that it hasn't been ported to their distros of choice.

This is a distro issue not a ISV issue.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever. 99% of these CD burning apps are basically just front-ends for cdrecord.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[alienw]

What microsoft baggage are you talking about? You are paying for a nero license, not for a microsoft version. That sure beats having to buy two different versions of the same exact program just because you use two different systems.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Jugalator]

Right! Those Windows users never bitch about anything!

Why bring Windows users into this? So, if Windows users moan, that's an excuse for Linux users to do the same? Is that what you're saying?

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[groomed]

If a commercial software vendor doesn't support linux people bitch.

Those people are using the wrong operating system.

If a commercial software vendor does support it people bitch that the software isn't GPL.

Of course. What use is software that needs a serial number to start up, can't be used on more than 1 computer, and can't be modified?

If the software gets GPL'd, people bitch that it hasn't been ported to their distros of choice.

But since it is GPL'd, so anyone can have a go at porting it.

More bullshit?

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[0BoDy]

no. This is an example of an image imporvement / marketing move that will probably backfire. NeroLinx Adds little/ no new functionality to the desktop. I use various form of non-GPL software even on linux, and I do so becuase there are no comperable linux products. Photoshop released on Linux will still be photoshop, unless they wait until gimp developers duplicate ALL of the're prized features. Macromedia is in the same boat. I complain the companies with useful software fail to develop for linux until someone has already developed a competing product, especially a better one with OS/DE integration (k3b/nautilus-cd-burner). Bad move on Nero's part does not make your case. No one's calling for them to GPL their software. A vendor can license as they please; I don't really think non-stallman-ites really care that much. As far as distro ports? um. . . explain rpm2ebuild, rpm2deb, targz2rpm, deb2rpm and similar programs. as far as distro compatibility, newbs whine; but newbs always whine: it's what newbs do. not sure how parent was modded 'insightful': try 'flamebait.'

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[soliptic]

Have you actually read Catch-22?

The body of your post is not an example of Catch-22, never mind a good example.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[EvanED]

Of course. What use is software that needs a serial number to start up, can't be used on more than 1 computer, and can't be modified?

What use is it?

I use tons of programs like that (Windows, Napster (PSU), Word, Excel, AIM, HP Scanning Software, Visual Studio, and yes, Nero) and they are all very useful.

Do I also use GPL'd software? Of course. I dual boot with Gentoo. Currently running is Firefox and Thunderbird. I also regularily use Blender and Notepad++. Under Gentoo pretty much everything is GPL'd if not BSD licenced.

Have I *ever* taken advantage myself of the fact that I have the source code? No. I don't have the experience to know how a piece of software as big as anything that I'd want to change works. I think I'm getting to the point where I could figure it out, but I'm not there yet. And despite the fact that I don't modify them, they are all still quite useful.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[0BoDy]

software not being GPL is not really the issue here. Tthe issue is whether customers are the source of profit or theft. Trust customers and your product will sell, treat them like theives and expect a GPL product to compete. I really think that's the whole picture.

A product doesn't have to be GPL to trust me and not treat me like a criminal.

Otherwise: good call: "More bullshit?"

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[kosmosik]

Well. No. I've been using Linux for a while now and I find it somewhat cool that comercial company noted Linux presence and included an *option* (note: option - you can use it or you can ditch it) to get along with that.

All I want to say that I am Linux user and I find it quite good that Nero move... Also probably most of other Linux users do. Please don't judge Linux users after some tight group that shouts the loudest. :)

Probably most of Linux users are pragmatic like me.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

More of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" example...

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

really, you see the reaction here as mostly positive? are you wearing truth protective goggles or something? people are going off in 30 different directions about why this is bad. everything from: it costs money, why do i want it anyway to who cares.

all of the positive comments are either not rated or rated low. the ones mentioned above are the high rated comments. so no, i don't think this is flamebait. this is right on the money.

it seems all too often that the linux community acts like the group of nerds sitting alone in the lunchroom in highschool. always bitching about the popular crowd, secretly wanting to be accepted like they are. if somehow one of the popular crowd invites one of the nerds to their table they then hate their former comrade and hate the popular crowd even more.

is all of the community this way? absolutely not. however many of the vocal ones are and of course bad news and annoying people are heard louder than the rest...

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Kiryat Malachi]

Of course. What use is software that needs a serial number to start up, can't be used on more than 1 computer, and can't be modified?

More use than hypothetical open source software that either doesn't exist or doesn't work.

Show me the open source Photoshop? No, the fucking GIMP does not count. Illustrator? Logic? Orion? ProTools? Audition? Until I see something at that level of utility and quality come out of OSS, FUCK OFF with your GPL zealotry.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[BillyBlaze]

Uh, that's a good thing.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[babyrat]

and if you use a bad title for your post, people bitch...

I think people just like to bitch... :)

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[groomed]

More use than hypothetical open source software that either doesn't exist or doesn't work.

Anything is better than cookie-cutter Photoshop art.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh.. Read the posts again.

He's saying (incorrectly) that companies won't produce software for Linux because people will bitch.

The next poster says that Windows users bitch too, but software is still produced, proving poster #1 to be wrong.

Then you come along and miss the point entirely.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[drsquare]

Not really. It means all the eggs are in one basket. If you've got a problem with cdrecord, say for instance it doesn't work on your setup, none of your burning programs will work. It's good to see a Linux app that has a proper low-level API rather than being just another wrapper.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me the proprietary competition to Photoshop, Illustrator ? Orion, Protools ? No, fucking competition doesn't count. Until then, FUCK OFF with your Proprietary zealotry

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is topical because cdrecord and Linux 2.6 have not been playing nice with each other.

cdrecord is Solaris program written by a Solaris programmer. Say what you want about Nero, but at least it seems like they are Linux native.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Kiryat Malachi]

Proprietary competition to Photoshop pretty much doesn't exist. Not in that class, at least. Illustrator, I guess it has some competition. XPress, for some applications. FreeHand, for others.

Orion, on the other hand, has a ton of competition. Everything from Reaktor to MAX/MSP Reason to Fruityloops to Live to Cubase to Sonar to... you get the picture, twit?

PT competes in the same space as Orion, to a certain extent, though more the sequencing portion than the synthesis. More correctly, you'd compare it to Cubase, Sonar, that sort of thing.

Opensource makes some very nice applications. I use Firefox every day. I use putty, too. I love pine. But for real, don't pretend it provides a usable alternative for everything. Some of us like to actually get our work done.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but HIS post was on-topic, while yours is uselessly off.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[Loligo]

>People are bashing Ahead because there already is
>an abundance of CD burning applications for Linux.

So what?

Ahead produces a Linux version of their flagship application and they catch hell for it.

Would it be better if Ahead didn't produce ANYTHING for Linux? Because that's more or less the alternative.

Their remaining products are either even MORE simplistic (an image organizer package, gee), stuff that has been tried and ignored by the general public (remember how we were going to be making all our phone calls using our sound cards and microphones?), or high-end professional versions of... Nero.

What the hell do you WANT Ahead to do?

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[BillyBlaze]

It also means that to make CD burning work on an unusual setup, support only has to be added in one place, bugs only have to be fixed in one place, and not as much effort is wasted, which is important when trying to get people to volunteer to write non-"fun" software.

Also, there are several other backends besides cdrecord, such a cdrdao, and some with better support for DVD writing, such as groisofs, and others that have been mentioned in this story. Many frontends can be configured to use these backends also. This is a big win, because when the frontends and backends are modular, if your drive doesn't work with one backend, that doesn't limit which frontends you can use.

I can definitely see the problem with having all the eggs in one basket, especially when that basket is held by Joerg Schilling, who seems to be backpedaling on the GPL, and who violently and untactfully disagrees with a lot of Linux's design choices, making cooperation extremly difficult. But still, having the backend decoupled is a first step to the goal of multiple frontends each capable of using each of several backends, and a much easier first step that having multiple tightly integrated programs that act as both frontend and backend.

And all of this is better than the situation in Windows, where at least until recently, you had to choose between several expensive proprietary programs with conflicting in-kernel components that embed themselves into your system in mysterious ways, defy deletion, and conspire to destroy your ability to burn anything, or at least to bug you with "CD Recording software will cause Windows to become unstable." bubbles until the end of time.

Re:Catch-22 as usual...

[BillyBlaze]

I'd be much happier if Nero has at least the option to not use the proprietary in-kernel drivers I get the impression it ships with. I hope we can avoid combining the annoyance of nvidia drivers with the fragility of cd-recording under Windows.

Comedy cdrecord reference in the screenshots

[tinla]

I like the way the screenshot tree shows the cdrecord /etc entry.

Here are some mirrored screenshots, if anyone cares: one two three four five

slashdot at it's finest

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, it never ceases to amaze me, The majority of us Linux users and developers (yes I develop and use linux every day) will be quite happy to welcome another company to linux. We can all play nicely together folks. How long have we spent trying to convince companies that it is worth releasing linux versions of their software. Now just because they don't make it totally free and GPL it it's a bad thing. Come on get over it. GPL is fantastic. But it's about choice. They have the right to release their software (note their software not ours or yours) however they please. They are a company and as such they have a responsibility to make money. I release software I develop under different licences as necessary. Both GPL and non GPL - I don't see the problem. If you only want gpl that's fine but don't bemoan the lack of mainstream software available. If you want mainstream stuff like adobe - here's the wake up - it's going to have to be under a proprietary licence - at least for now. But if they release anything under linux it can only be good in the long run as it gives people more of a choice. and that's what it's about.
Please, let's get together on this, there is room for both kinds of licence. leave the zealotry at home and let's work on getting Linux to the number one spot, then we can start to convince the proprietary co's it's worth releasing under the gpl.

Re:slashdot at it's finest

[Anonymous Coward]

Since I'm not in the mood to discuss GPL right now;

Being able to read other people's source code is a nice thing, not a fundamental freedom.

I've been saying this for years. Linux on the desktop won't happen until these idiots realize that there is no (zero, nada) possibillity of a commercial company releasing a GPLed product.

Only when people will start to realize that even something as trivial as Nero (in this case) is a win for Linux. No matter the license. Don't expect Adobe or any other large developer releasing their product with a source anytime soon.

If you're against that, that's fine. But then don't fucking troll how Linux is close to the desktop.

Anger

[TurboStar]

As many others pointed out, this software is not free in any way; you have to buy it. Who cares if it runs on Linux? This is not newsworthy. If this were the first ever application to let you burn CDs under Linux it might be newsworthy, but there have been other options for years. Yes, I know it's all been said. I'm saying it again.

Warning: Proprietary DRM

[Pan T. Hose]

Now having read the article, browsed the website and analysed the legal documents, I can see this software does not only seem inferior to cdrdao, but it is actually proprietary software with DRM. Click the EULA link after following the NeroLINUX link in the story before you pollute your Free and Open system with proprietary restrictions and Microsoft DRM. See the paragraph C-1-a:

C. TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLICABLE TO ALL LICENSES

I. Third Party Disclaimer and Limitations

a.) WM-DRM: Content providers are using the Microsoft digital rights management technology for Windows Media distributed with this Software ("WM-DRM") to protect the integrity of their content ("Secure Content") so that their intellectual property, including copyright, in such content is not misappropriated. Portions of this Software and other third party applications use WM-DRM to play Secure Content ("WM-DRM Software"). If the WM-DRM Software's security has been compromised, owners of Secure Content ("Secure Content Owners") may request that Microsoft revoke the WM-DRM Software's right to copy, display and/or play Secure Content. Revocation does not alter the WM-DRM Software's ability to play unprotected content. A list of revoked WM-DRM Software is sent to your computer whenever you download a license for Secure Content from the Internet. Microsoft may, in conjunction with such license, also download revocation lists onto your computer on behalf of Secure Content Owners. Secure Content Owners may also require you to upgrade some of the WM-DRM components distributed with this Software ("WM-DRM Upgrades") before accessing their content. When you attempt to play such content, WM-DRM Software built by Microsoft will notify you that a WM-DRM Upgrade is required and then ask for your consent before the WM-DRM Upgrade is downloaded. Non-Microsoft WM-DRM Software may do the same. If you decline the upgrade, you will not be able to access content that requires the WM-DRM Upgrade; however, you will still be able to access unprotected content and Secure Content that does not require the upgrade. WM-DRM features that access the Internet, such as acquiring new licenses and/or performing a required WM-DRM Upgrade, can be switched off. When these features are switched off, you will still be able to play Secure Content if you have a valid license for such content already stored on your computer. [emphasis added]

Just make sure you fully understand all of the implications before you put this trojan horse in the mouth. This is proprietary software with an EULA that uses "intellectual property" newspeak. This is always a bad sign. Such an agreement may be OK for typical ignorant Windows users or software "pirates" but is certainly unacceptable for any conscious GNU/Linux users, so please be bery careful. I would recommend sticking to cdrdao and cdrecord until this software is released under more reasonable conditions.

Re:Warning: Proprietary DRM

[taylortbb]

Software Products: Object of this agreement is the Nero software suite, comprising a selection of components, that varies with different suite types, from the following list: Nero Burning ROM, NeroMIX, WMA-Plug-in, InCD, Nero StartSmart, Nero Toolkit, Nero Cover Designer, Nero Wave Editor, Nero SoundTrax, Nero BackItUp, Nero ImageDrive, Nero Media Player, Nero ShowTime, InCD Reader, Nero PhotoShow Express, Nero Recode, Nero Fast CD-Burning Plug-In, NeroVision Express and/or Nero Express ("Software")"

If you look at the very first paragraph you will notice a list of software products that it covers, NeroLinux is *NOT* one of pieces of software covered by that license, making your whole point irrelevant to the discussion on NeroLinux (this does not mean I support the DRM in the windows version).

Nero

[Anonymous Coward]

Silly bullshit, it's not free and it's not free.

Re:Nero

[gatkinso]

christ write it yourself then you sniveling piece of shit

This story helped me realize...

[Anonymous Coward]

... why my grammar teacher said to avoid repetition in texts.

Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[ShatteredDream]

It is one thing to just do most of the same things, but how you do them is the real issue. In that respect, Nero is still much farther ahead than K3B. That isn't to say that K3B is a bad product, in fact for most of my needs it is great. Nero for Windows is a very aggressively designed and updated product. It supports basically every burner out there, every type of media, burns any type of disk (VCD, SVCD, DVD movie, data, music, etc) and is just... solid and slick in how it does stuff.

Again, it's not that K3B isn't competitive. It certainly is, but it's not there yet. Nero for Linux appears to be identical in its UI to the Windows version so it's another great way to bridge Linux and Windows. The bottom line is that it is very good, many people have it because it comes with many burners and having it on Linux will be another program that people who are wont to not learn how to use their computer will be able to say, "oh I know that program" that is part of their semi-daily use.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

I can't speak to the full version of Nero 6, but K3b is well superior to the Nero Express 5.5 that came with my CD-R drive. Trying to burn an .iso with that watered down piece of crap is an ordeal.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Zen Punk]

Nero Express != Nero. They are very different peices of software. "Watered down" says it alright.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[EvanED]

I can't speak to Nero Express 5.5, but buring an ISO with Nero Burning ROM 5 is as easy as File -> Burn Image... -> (find file in dialog) -> Open -> Burn.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[pllewis]

While Nero is further ahead on windows, it lags well behind in Linux. I just downloaded the rpm and installed it ( it does allow for a demo mode until 5/31/2005 ). Installs and works out fine. However, it only has the basic functions to burn a data cd and an audio cd. No VCD/DVD, nothing else. K3b has almost the same interface, but with more functionality. That being said, I'm always glad to see apps that work for linux from the commercial sector. It shows that some Win32 software vendors are aware of linux.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[westyvw]

Could you point out some of these better features? I have used K3B as a front end for cd and dvd burning and I would rather use it then Nero. Nero just gets worse, the interface is uglier and more confusing then ever before. So to find out I took a noob (family member) who had never used any CD burning software before. We did some basic tasks in Nero and some Basic tasks in K3B. Once comfortable, we did some shortcuts and some more complicated things like making amusic cd from mp3's that was live music so you needed to remove the pregap for example.

In the end the user preferred K3B over Nero. It was easier to use and "just worked right".

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Minna Kirai]

but K3b is well superior to the Nero Express 5.5 that came with my CD-R drive.

Because it is built as a shell around command-line tools, k3b still fails on some cases Nero can handle. For example, try burning a file with multiple hypens ("-") in the name: k3b will fail without giving any sensible error message, because the filename it passes to cdrecord will have been interpreted as an (invalid) option.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[marsu_k]

Apart from the ability to split a long audio file into separate tracks (k3b can set start/endpoints, but AFAIK that's it), exactly how is Nero "still much farther ahean than k3b"?

I've burnt CDs, VCDs, DVDs (both data and video) and so on with k3b without a hitch. And personally I find the interface much more intuitive, Nero seems more cluttered nowadays.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[croddy]

Again, it's not that K3B isn't competitive. It certainly is, but it's not there yet.

have you actually used k3b recently? or ever? or are you just on some sort of linux-apps-are-not-there-yet autopilot mode?

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

burns any type of disk (VCD, SVCD, DVD movie, data, music, etc)

But it doesn't support that many binary image formats. Which is a problem if you like to download lots of games off the internet.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's just karma-worhing..

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Mike O'Hara]

K3b... Tools -> Burn CD Image -> Pick image Tools -> Burn DVD IMages -> Pick Image

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[moonbender]

It supports ISO and BIN/CUE. The latter covers most of the games you might download off the net. It probably doesn't support either CloneCD or Alcohol, but that isn't exactly surprising, and burning cloned images is a difficult enough job that I wouldn't entrust it to any third party app anyway.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Bert64]

The problem is the fact that nero is commercial, therefore they have to keep providing new features in order to convince people to buy the upgrades. These new features serve to make the interface more cluttered and often aren't used by the majority of users. Often older versions of commercial apps are much better (without all the bloat and confusing options) but they're no longer maintained and won't work on modern machines.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Bert64]

Well, these binary formats shouldn't exist.. They are just attempts by cdr software vendors to lock you in to their product by reinventing a new container format for an iso image, nero does this too with its "nrg" format.
What do these formats offer the user that a straight iso image doesn't ? NOTHING. They only serve to benefit the software vendor, and for this reason i won't support any software which tries to push it's own propriatory format when existing open documented formats already exost.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Patik]

Trying to burn an .iso with that watered down piece of crap is an ordeal.

Clicking File > Open is an ordeal? I haven't tried, but you can probably even drag and drop an .ISO into Nero and it'll open the burning dialog.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[volve]

Can K3b perform a byte-for-byte verify of an image file after it's been burned?

That's one of the best features of Nero 6 in my opinion. Not sure if the Linux version has that ability though...

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[WWWWolf]

Nero Express is severely stripped down, the real thing supports burning ISOs quite easily.

And I've definitely used Nero Express to burn a Gnoppix CD... can't remember which version it was though, but it wasn't really that difficult.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[GiMP]

Yes.

It creates and MD5 of the local files and compares that to an MD5 of the files on the resultant CD. This way it doesn't need to retain a full ISO image on the harddrive. If you're burning from an ISO, it will compare the MD5 of the ISO with the MD5 of the CD..

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

It'll just burn a data cd with an .iso file on it. Worthless.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean: almost as stable as Linux, almost as secure as Linux, almost as easy to use as Linux, but nowhere near as free as Linux? That would make Nero "poor man's cdrecord"... :-)

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Reziac]

Nero fullversion and Nero Express aren't even vaguely similar.

Nero fullversion has a disorganized, buggy interface that frequently exhibits random behaviour, and has issues with retaining settings (and the bugs are different in every minor version) but the actual BURNING part always works fine, and one can get used to the interface, remember that this here setting won't stay checked in that there subversion, etc. I still don't like the program, but its end result IS reliable, and it IS quick to use once you get used to its quirks, so I use it despite the annoyances.

Nero Express has a slick, simple interface, but it variously locks up solid while adding files, refuses to burn above 4x, or refuses to burn anything at all. It is so bad that now I don't even install it, but instead go find myself and clients a, um, borroware copy of the real thing (figuring since we PAID for a copy with that new CDRW drive, we are damn well due a copy that WORKS. And yes, I have complained to the CDRW manufacturers about it.) All in all, Nero Express is probably the single worst piece of shit I've seen in a widely-distributed commercial app.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Reziac]

That sounds a lot like the diff between old EZCD Creator v3.5 (before it became Roxio and was ruined), and Nero anyversion. How to do anything in EZCD 3.5 was flamingly obvious; you didn't need to start with a single clue. It Just Worked.

OTOH even starting with some clues, Nero caused a lot of initial head-scratching, and despite being a very powerful program, it still causes me occasional swearing.

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

The most important thing I learned about nero express, and learned fast, is to never, ever use it's built in filebrowser for anything, becasue if you accidentally drag a folder onto itself, it will ACTUALLY TRY TO COMPLY, leaving you with whatever content was there buried at the bottom of 200+ recursive subfolders

Re:Nero is to K3B arguably what OSX is to Linux

[Reziac]

Oh, that's just peachy...

And that gives me another clue as to what it's doing that's so utterly FUBAR'd:

With Nero-full (and EZCD Creator), you can have an ordinary WinExplorer window open, and drag files from there into your compilation. (This will sometimes crash Nero-full, but does NOT take Windows with it.)

But doing so with Nero Express is a dead-bang way to lock the whole system up solid. Even a box that otherwise crashes seldom to never. And it takes quite a while to do so -- about 5 minutes of helplessness on a P3-450, where I could tell it was still chugging at something, but the end result was a solidly-frozen desktop.

Given your clue, it looks to me like the stupid thing is doing something seriously illegal in its file access -- sortof halfassed using Explorer and halfassed doing it itself. Well, gee, no freakin' WONDER it locks up -- it's probably generating the mother of all SHARE violations!!

OK folks, make up your minds...

[Anonymous Coward]

You want companies to support linux, yet when they do you bash their stuff! (you know who you are)

Kudo's to Ahead for making a software product particularly targeted for Linux! Looking at their site, I see that it SUPPORTS a number of kernel versions and distributions.

Hmm, I bet corporate customers are really fond of software that has some form of customer support besides newsgroups!

Just because flavor-of-the-week-open-source-burner-software works great for you doesnt mean that it will work great for companies! It also doesnt mean we should bash the existence of that choice. Companies *will* pay money to improve consistancy and to reduce variability. A known cost is better than an unknown cost. Unsupported (or community) software is an unknown cost. Most companies would rather pay the known cost (maintenance) than deal with the unknown.

(Yes that was a blanket statement. In some cases, the cost can be quantified a bit better for some of these unsupported/community supported softwares and with such knowledge you can significantly reduce the variability. Generally this fits tools that are almost defacto standards like Apache and what not.)

I like to think of it this way... its one more option available on Linux that you can also find in the Windows world, making it one more item which can be checked off in the "why [some company] scared to transition to linux" list.

Re:OK folks, make up your minds...

[legirons]

"You want companies to support linux, yet when they do you bash their stuff!"

Who thinks that? Everyone I know here wants companies to support Free Software.

Getting confused (deliberately?) between an operating system and a philosophy sounds rather too similar to some of the "corporate world needs enterprise class solutions and the costlier the better" trolls we see so often.

Hint: Nero don't support this program. So your argument about corporate types "wanting it for the support" is a load of crap. Compare to K3B, which is supported by whatever company you buy your distro from.

Yet again, someone assumes that becuase somthing is proprietary, it's (a) better, and (b) supported. Neither are true in this case, or many others.

Missing the point...

[carbona]

The audience for Nero is a Windows convert who was familiar with Nero's interface on that other OS and doesn't care that there are existing GPL tools and GUI frontends to burn discs.

I understand the necessity of promoting non-restricted open source software, but things like this are a plus for Linux, particularly if we are holding out any chance that it will start to make serious waves on the desktop.

Re:Missing the point...

[Narchie Troll]

It's not the same interface, though. It's a different backend, but it's apparently based on Gnome Toaster.

Nice Try, but Still not what I'm looking for.

[ShyGuy91284]

Although you can use a command line to burn DVDs/CDs, putting together a disc is something I've always like having a simple point-and-click interface for, as we all know dealing with multiple files on the command line isn't the easiest thing to do. Those that do have the Windows version of Nero probably agree that it's the most fully-featured Windows burning software out there. I've been looking for something nice for Linux, and this could have been it if it didn't require the Licensing (I prefer not to have one $150 program on my system when the rest was free). K3B is nice, but part of the KDE bloat. I'm waiting to see where Gnomebaker and I think Graveman will go in terms of becoming a unified and complete burning suite.

Who get's the funds?

[CherniyVolk]

I have to register, in affect purchase, a Windows binary in order to download the "free" Linux port.

I applaud their efforts, I really do. However, I rather they admit it's not free, and provide a means for Linux users to "purchase" the proprietary software ported to Linux. I purchase proprietary software for Linux, Cedega, Doom3. I purchase proprietary software that runs ontop of OSS software... MacOS X comes to mind...

It really doesn't make sense to buy a product I can not use in order to attain a "free" advertised product I CAN use. So, I'm sitting there with a Win32 binary, what am I going to do with it? They must be under the assumption, many Linux users dual boot. I haven't dual booted or ran Microsoft Windows on my personal computers since Windows 3.11. So, a win32 binary will do me no good and be deleted or maybe never even downloaded.

So, their stats show a surge in sales. Those sales are strongly indicative to Windows environments. And, their win32 code gurus get the pleasure I suspect. I want Linux to get the credit. And, only Linux. For example, I could have purchased a laptop from Sony cheaper than the one I purchased from nextcomputing.com. Infact, perhaps 500-1000 dollars less. But, since the guys at next nextcomputing.com can jot down a mark for a computer sold with only Linux pre-installed, that's a tick in the pool for investors to look at and ponder. It's already hard to analyze market trends with something like Linux. And let's face it, as far as investors go, Linux is only as big as companies say it is. Even though, any intelligent person can realize that any market stats on the use of Linux is greatly and even statistically grotesquely underestimated.

I think NeroLINUX should be available without the requirement to purchase a Windows binary. I'm sorry for the guys at Nero, if they are doing this to help the extravagant costs of Windows development tools, then that's a shame. If this is the case (to fund their Microsoft License costs) off of OSS dollars, then they should accept the fact that Win32 is going by the wayside or reconsider their negotiations... whatever needs to be done. I do not want my dollar going to Microsoft, period.

Re:Who get's the funds?

[Serapth]

I'm sorry for the guys at Nero, if they are doing this to help the extravagant costs of Windows development tools, then that's a shame.

HAHAHAHAHA, your @$@#ing kidding right? Have you ever looked at Microsofts ISV program? Im guessing no. Hell, you probrably think that the 1000$ they charge for VS is high ( it isnt ). Hell, nobody but a complete moron pays full price anyways. Hell, microsoft would LOVE to give away their development software, but given anti trust and all that jazz, they cant.

Oh wait... they can... You can get C#, um... free. C++, um... free. "Express" editions of everything... free. Hell, you can get an MSDN subscription in like the 2 grand range, which gives you liscenses to basically every piece of software MS makes that isnt a game.

Really... educate yourself a bit more on the subject before posting such a stupid statement. Oh, and if you want to have something to compare VS against... check out the cost of Borland Enterprise suite... somewhere in the range of 6K, and its pretty much a piece of shit.

IMHO, of all products Microsoft makes, Visual Studio is the best. No other platform, anywhere comes close to matching it.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

Fully insightful and informative.

NeroLinux - Good for weaning windows Nero users

[proctor]

Given that our household owns a WinNero license, I figured why not give it a whirl. Not bad...very easy to install and it does a good job of translating the look and feel from the windows side.

Definitely a good tool for those who have vid burning windows addicts in their household. I may finally have a shot at converting my wife over to the 'dark side' of burning vids on her windows station...time to switch the myth server inittab to default:5.

Ah...but this is slashdot...nitpicking(TM) is mandatory. Well, it'd be nice if the Nero folks provided at least a basic level of support for the linux side. I'd bet there's people in their support arm who'd be happy to work with an OS they can really troubleshoot for a change.

Answer

[imsabbel]

Meaning that here in germany at least there is a 80% chance that if you buy a random dvd-writer, there is some oem version of nero with it. Of course only usable with windows. Until now.

Re:Answer

[wertarbyte]

Meaning that here in germany at least there is a 80% chance that if you buy a random dvd-writer, there is some oem version of nero with it. Of course only usable with windows. Until now.

"The OEM versions of Nero that come with many CD burners aren't sufficient, though;"

No, not until now.

REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Anonymous Coward]

moron

I checked the MD5 sum on your IP. Don't be stupid.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Zorilla]

You have been banned for having too much megahertz.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Rashkae]

I am hurt and offended that you would accuse me of astroturfing my own post. Is it so hard to believe others *might*, must maybe, agree with me?

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Zorilla]

Huh? I'm just a third party replying to the "MD5 of your IP" guy just for the hell of it.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Chmarr]

Yeah.... the slashdot interface is a little daft in that regard. There's NO indication that a post is in fact replying to a screened/hidden post, rather than the 'visible parent'.

One needs to, onceself, say "okay, that response doesn't make sense, perhaps I should click 'parent' to see if it was in response to some OTHER post.

Just a little indication of "in reponse to hidden post" would alleviate a LOT of confusion.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Rashkae]

Oops, my bad,,, and thanks for replying.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[grolschie]

Huh? Please explain? TIA.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Anonymous Coward]

> Huh? I'm just a third party replying to the "MD5 of your IP" guy just for the hell of it.

How exactly?

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Zorilla]

Read at -1 once in a while. The post I replied to is omitted otherwise.

But why I did it is another story. I replied on the premise that checking the MD5 of an IP address was a technically inept thing to say you were doing. Then I remembered later on that Slashdot will give you the MD5 sum of your IP if you get banned and need to securely send IP info to admins.

Still a dumb thing to say, considering even the MD5 isn't viewable to general viewers.

Re:REPLYING TO YOUR OWN POST IS STUPID

[Anonymous Coward]

Understood. Thought from the post that there was some /. secret. Thread got confusing when reading at 0 threshold. Thanks for replying. :-)

Wanna try it out?

[Anonymous Coward]

Already found a torrent for it for those who can't register.

Re:looks like... a GPL violation

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, if it's a Nero branded Gnome-Toaster, then the licensing restrictions are incompatible with the GPL.

Step by step guide to getting mod insightful:

[imsabbel]

1. Write so much and so boring stuff nobody reads everything.
2. Write a few big FOSS at eyecatchers, and next to it that its important for you, your buissness, birth control, ect.
3.?
4.INSIGHTFUL!!!!11

Not a bad idea overall

[Mad Merlin]

I like this idea, I don't have any use for NeroLINUX, but I can think of a lot of people that would. The people that I can see using something like this, are those that have actually bought Nero for Windows but are considering switching over to Linux, and instead of throwing away money that they've spend on Nero, would like to continue using it, at least initially.

I imagine that this would also help those with a phobia of new software, as this would be one more application that would be the same for them under both Linux and Windows (similar to Firefox, or OpenOffice, etc).

Now, I'll admit I haven't used Nero (or Windows) in several years on any of my computers, but from using K3b these days, I can't see anything that it is lacking that Nero might provide. Has anybody used both apps recently (NeroLINUX would be an even better comparison) and can comment on how they compare?

Overall, I'd say this is good for those on Windows now who are considering switching to Linux, and of lesser consequence to those already using Linux.

May not be needed, but a nice gesture

[dn15]

Through all the posts saying this was silly and unnecessary, let's not forget that even if the software is non-Free and irrelevant (to many of us), it can also be seen as a step in the right direction.

Yes, *NIX fans already have k3b, X-CD-Roast, ECLiPt, and others. But on the flip side, this software is in the vein of what many people have been asking for -- mainstream recognition and support of Linux.

Re:May not be needed, but a nice gesture

[0BoDy]

Yeah, that's what I though: I think this is most important because it shows that linux is stating to matter to the mainstream. Additionally, this is a little more free advertising for "that linux thing" that we all know and love

This is great to see

[retendo]

Although many Linux users are happy with the amazing amount of free and open source software available it is nice to see commercial companies considering the Linux platform worth supporting. I wouldn't expect your average slashdot reader to go out and buy this tomorrow, but for the manager who has allowed a few developers in her office to to use Linux but hates to hear that the companies chosen software for xxxx does work on Linux, this is a good thing.

No, not earth shattering news. I doubt that CD burning software will "tip the scale" of acceptance at most companies and suddenly you will be asked on your first day what your choice of OS is. But the more companies that release their software for Linux the more your average joe will start to consider the platform viable.

Again, not a big deal. But it sure is nice to see.

--
Dan

I'm not cool enough for a real sig.

Motif Garbage

[shibashaba]

Why are proprietary programs for linux always using motif? They look like crap and they're harder to use. Is it really that difficult to use QT or GTK? I'm not even going to consider buying a motif app unless they actually have tons of different unix versions justifying the use.

Re:Motif Garbage

[frankjr]

It is actually using a GTK1 interface. There doesn't seem to be anything that would be incentive enough to buy it. If only it were GTK2 however... but anyways, I use K3B.

Re:Motif Garbage

[shibashaba]

Well gtk1 is alright with me. I was thinking about it because of the wma support but I don't know how much it costs anyways. I usually use K3B but it crashes on me a lot depending on the file I'm using. Usually because of the ID3 tags but sometimes I can't figure out why. Different versions just crash on different files.

What if I don't want to purchase Nero for windows?

[Harker]

Seems like the only way to get the linux version is to purchase the windows version.

What if someone doesn't have any windows boxes? Is it that tough to make it available to purchase directly??

I'm glad they've done this. The more products that are ported natively to Linux, the better in my opinion. They just need to stop tying it to their windows products.

H.

not a bad idea

[Gyorg_Lavode]

I have nero OEM but don't really like it. I have all the linux burners too. (I especially like eroaster's ability to pick files out to fill up a CD for when your backing stuff up).

But if the OEM upgrade fee is reasonable, I would like to have the full windows version of Nero and a consistant GUI on my linux box too.

On the other hand, the price I saw was 50. I am reluctant to pay $50 for a game that has no sale of progressive builds let alone a utility program who's basic functionality is built into most OSs,

This is wonderful!!

[XO]

Commercial software for Linux, that people will find USEFUL!! And not enterprise applications, and not games that have zero marketing!

I haven't RTFA, but i'd hope there'd be a way to buy a license for the Linux ver without having to ALSO get a Windows ver

Then why are most FOSS tools v0.97 beta?

[gelfling]

..or something like that? Seriously if FOSS software wants to be taken seriously it has to bite the bullet and at least number things 1.0 or higher. But all of the free tools, or almost all of them at least as pertains to burners are all labeled some kind of scary sounding 0.97b BETA or something like that. Which might not be a bad thing in and of itself but with SO MANY things that CAN go wrong with burning, right down to the brand of blank disc you use, it would seem at least counterproductive to hesitate calling something production quality, if in fact the author thinks it is. This is a great example of letting engineers overengineer and control the release of products until it's 'perfect'. Trust me it will never be perfect nor will it ever need to be perfect so just call it what it is Production Good-Enough version X.

Re:Then why are most FOSS tools v0.97 beta?

[Ziviyr]

When my burning tools know the status of by DVD burner's buffer, simulate less realistically enough that I don't get real coasters out of it, and can actually control burning speed. Then it'd be okay to hit v1.0.

Ahh the wonderousness

[sparkie]

You all tout desktop linux like it's in the near future, then when a company brings a trusted name over to the linux desktop, all you see are complaints about how it's not free.

How about stop whining and give them a little support. Nero has been around on windows desktops for quite a while. Not that it's going to be the app that makes 2 million users stand up and switch, at least it's a start. People can now use their 'favorite burning application on linux' if in fact that is their favorite.

The point is joe schmoe doesn't even know what cdrdao is, nor does he want to learn another application. Yet, you say linux is destined for the desktop? I say bullshit. It's not destined for anything.

The biggest hurdle to Desktop Linux, is the current users of linux themselves.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[thank-u-for-sharing]

The linux desktop is already here, I've been using it for a few years now. Nero just recently became aware of it and find itself competing in a very crowded arena with some very good players. Joe Schmoe isn't going to have trouble finding a CD burner on this platform. Which ever distro he chooses will, more than likely, come with a very capable burner with a good GUI. You mentioned giving Nero a little support, my question is why? Their app doesn't bring anything new to this platform.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[sparkie]

I already stated what they're bringing. The 'trusted name' if in fact it is trusted by a user. From my personal experience (the only experience I can speak from) there are many people who use nero solely. People follow brand names. Welcome to capitalism

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[0BoDy]

I think you missed the point...

You all tout desktop linux like it's in the near future, then when a company brings a trusted name over to the linux desktop, all you see are complaints about how it's not free.

I think these complaints refrence the summary not the vendor. people are complaining that the summary is wrong/inacurate.

How about stop whining and give them a little support. Nero has been around on windows desktops for quite a while. Not that it's going to be the app that makes 2 million users stand up and switch, at least it's a start. People can now use their 'favorite burning application on linux' if in fact that is their favorite.

don't know if you looked at this product at all, but I wouldn't switch. NeroLinux uses gtk1.2 which is old, looks old, and doesn't really apeal at all. I think more people will be 'burned' by Nero Linux and leave the platform than those who will switch becuase they can use it to burn other things. (pardon pun).

The point is joe schmoe doesn't even know what cdrdao is, nor does he want to learn another application.

I find it more likely they'll be pleasantly surprised by (k3b/nautilus-cd-burner) which both work great. I don't know how to use cdrdao, and don't intend to use it, I'll use GUI apps to do this type of thing, or I'l use windows.

Yet, you say linux is destined for the desktop? I say bullshit. It's not destined for anything.

This is Offtopic

The biggest hurdle to Desktop Linux, is the current users of linux themselves

I'd like to see that substantiated.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[EvanED]

I think these complaints refrence the summary not the vendor. people are complaining that the summary is wrong/inacurate.

What about the very top post? This? This? This? All top-level comments from the top 1/3 or so of the comments page, ranging from questioning why Nero would do this to criticizing them for doing it, most of them saying that existing tools are just as good or better.

don't know if you looked at this product at all, but I wouldn't switch. NeroLinux uses gtk1.2 which is old, looks old, and doesn't really apeal at all

I agree. GTK2 in my opinion only looks decent, and GTK1 is ugly as crap.

I think more people will be 'burned' by Nero Linux and leave the platform than those who will switch becuase they can use it to burn other things.

This is a legitimate concern I fear. Assuming the interface is easy to use I doubt it'll drive people away, but it certainly won't help. I'd like to see Nero offer the program in GTK2 and Qt varieties too.

I think the fact that the UI isn't even the same (at least as Nero5) as the Windows version will hurt them more than will the fact that it's ugly.

I find it more likely they'll be pleasantly surprised by (k3b/nautilus-cd-burner) which both work great.

On the other hand, people like what they are familiar with. In addition to having the same program, the name recognition is nice.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[QuantumG]

Oh please. If Adobe ported Photoshop to Linux (and it would take them what, a week) you can be sure that millions of Linux users would happily pay for it. How can I possibily know?! Because the very same people pay for Adobe Photoshop and then use half baked solutions like WINE to run it.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[0BoDy]

point(s) taken, moreover, I will review further up the page, I'm sure you're right.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[latroM]

You all tout desktop linux like it's in the near future, then when a company brings a trusted name over to the linux desktop, all you see are complaints about how it's not free.

That's because we value freedom more than popularity.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[Kihaji]

don't know if you looked at this product at all, but I wouldn't switch. NeroLinux uses gtk1.2 which is old, looks old, and doesn't really apeal at all. I think more people will be 'burned' by Nero Linux and leave the platform than those who will switch becuase they can use it to burn other things. (pardon pun).

Question: What pray tell is the *default* toolkit that the majority of the Linux userbase will have installed on their system?

Answer: Officially, none, unofficially, more than likely GTK1.2 because of the *killer* apps that still use it (XMMS anyone)

Just be thankful they didn't pull a mozilla and create yet another un-needed interface set that bloats the crap out of their application.

Re:Ahh the wonderousness

[juhaz]

Answer: Officially, none, unofficially, more than likely GTK1.2 because of the *killer* apps that still use it (XMMS anyone)

You managed to find _ONE_ application that is still widely used that uses GTK1. And that makes it a "default"?

Majority of Linux users probably use recent GNOME or KDE, which makes the "default" toolkit either Qt3 or GTK2, even those that don't, run quite a bit of apps that use GTK2 (Mozilla, Evolution, Gaim...) or Qt. Just because some of them run XMMS too, doesn't change the fact that vast majority of the applications they use do use more recent toolkit.

Yeah, I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

you were being sarcastic. But, truthfully, I would like Nero to beat k3b. It raises the bar. But to do that, Nero will have to be re-written, because from what I have seen, k3b is better than the Windows version.

Re:Yeah, I know...

[exspecto]

I switched back to Windows from Linux for the *sole* reason that there is nothing anywhere NEAR as simple as Nero VisionExpress (it's for burning avi/mpg to a video dvd...with menus and everything).

K3b was just as good as cdrdao and cdrecord...because that's all it does.

Re:Yeah, I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest you take a closer look at a more recent version of K3b in that case, because the version I have here very clearly has the option to burn data CDs & DVDs, audio CDs, and video CDs.

Re:Yeah, I know...

[exspecto]

I suggest you read my post again. I don't care about *data* dvds, the option that is missing from linux is the option to burn video dvds. As in dvd movies with menus and all that jazz. VCD != DVD.

Re:Yeah, I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

And just to clarify: I know it's *possible*, but amount of time and the amount of different applications necessary to accomplish this task tower over the two or three "Next" buttons in Nero VisionExpress required to do the same thing.

I know this is Slashdot ...

[cdrguru]

But could we please call Ahead Software by their name instead of calling the company Nero? The product by Ahead Software is Nero. Yes, Nero was their original and sole product for a long time. I believe it was originally written by one guy. The company now has revenues exceeding $30 million a year.

Re:I know this is Slashdot ...

[natrius]

But could we please call Ahead Software by their name instead of calling the company Nero?

Look at the bottom of http://www.nero.com/. "Nero AG / Nero Inc." I'm guessing they incorporated under the Nero name as well when they realized that not many people actually know the company name.

Re:I know this is Slashdot ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Insightful?

These idiots! They do not know their own name!

http://www.nero.com/en/About_Nero.html

Ahead is dead, long live Nero!

Re:I know this is Slashdot ...

[Anonymous Coward]

why should we ? , people still insist on callings Apple "MAC" and calling Macs "apples"

Re:I know this is Slashdot ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The company was Ahead before, using Ahead.de as the site, but because another company owns Ahead.com, they choose Nero.com instead.

What disturbs me are the people who won't know where the Nero name comes from.

And the Trolls come out to play...

[Maxim Kovalenko]

Listen people, whenever a commercial application is ported over to Linux it is good for the effort to get Linux on the desktop. It doesn't matter if there are already command line tools out there that will do the same thing. So what? Yeah there are graphical front ends available for these command line tools available...but once again, so what? If they support linux, I have to support them. If you prefer FOSS applications, that's cool. But we need the commercial applications as well and this is one of the best commercial applications out there. (Plus you get legal codes as well. Something that ought to wipe out afew potential legal problems in the future.) Personally, I don't see why all of you people are crying and moaning. It seems like whenever a commercial company brings stuff over to Linux people do nothing but badmouth it and go on about an open-source solution that isn't as "full-featured" or "intuitive" as the commercial application. From what I have seen of the behavioof most of the people who have commented about this here and in other places. There are a whole lot of fan-boys who talk a fine game about "Desktop Linux for the Masses" Most of them simply want Linux to stay a fringe operating system so they can all argue about KDE/Gnome, play with your command lines, and spit on normal computer users with a disrespectful, elitist attitude. Mod me a troll for this post if you want to...but in the end it is about "choice" Nero has just given me an additonal "choice" That is a good thing.

Re:And the Trolls come out to play...

[logical1010]

There are a whole lot of fan-boys who talk a fine game about "Desktop Linux for the Masses" Most of them simply want Linux to stay a fringe operating system so they can all argue about KDE/Gnome, play with your command lines, and spit on normal computer users with a disrespectful, elitist attitude.

No, we don't want Linux to remain a fringe OS. We just want to see FOSS desktop linux, if it takes a bit longer to happen, oh well.

It's not that I have anything against prop software it's just that purchase decisions by businesses are fairly good decisions (usually) but the home market is rife with crappy useless software that people are cajoled into buying. We were all at one point in time new computer users. It took a long time to get to were we are. Why not use this insight to help the noobs. And that knowledge being; don't waste your money, there is better, free, more trustworthy apps out there. Let's face it there has never (I hope) been a FOSS app that installs spyware.

The home desktop has always been the platform for the worst software/business pratices. I don't want this extending to linux.

Would you call this attitude "spitting on normal computer users"?

As for being a troll? Nah, but stay away from those bridges.

Re:And the Trolls come out to play...

[BackInIraq]

"No, we don't want Linux to remain a fringe OS. We just want to see FOSS desktop linux, if it takes a bit longer to happen, oh well."

The problem is, it will probably will never happen with that attitude. Here's why.

"And that knowledge being; don't waste your money, there is better, free, more trustworthy apps out there."

Let's look at the marketing plan for any given piece of software:
1. Make piece of software that performs specific function.
2. ??????
3. PROFIT!

Know what step 2 is? "Make it easy and enjoyable to use." And that is what most FOSS apps miss, and it's not because of any failing of the open source community. It's just that for the average guy writing the code, there is no real point in it. You make a piece of software to get the job done, and you're good to go. Without the motivation of actually getting paid for your work, there isn't a lot of point in putting in the effort to polish it. You'll use it, fellow geeks will use it, and all will be well. You aren't concerned about market share or profit margins. And again, this is not a bad thing.

But the average computer user does care about the interface. In fact, they generally care about the interface more than the function. Same way the average car buyer doesn't care to know how to rebuild an engine or how much horsepower their car has...they just want to get in it and drive to work.

That's why the average computer user will pay more for software that does less but is easier to use. Or more intuitive. Because while there may be a perfectly functional FOSS alternative, in 99 cases out of 100 it will be, to some extent or another, less intuitive/harder to use.

Guess what. This probably isn't going to change, either. In fact, as more non-geeks get computers, it will probably just get worse. So unless the FOSS movement starts putting more effort into the polish on their software (not likely, because that's the kind of thing that people/companies are motivated by...you know, *money* to do), or the average computer user stops caring about such things (also not likely, as we can all hopefully admit...Pontiac Aztek aside, there isn't much market for ugly cars developing over time), FOSS will never catch on on the desktop.

Want to test this? Try getting your mom, or your wife, or one of your non-geek friends (the less geeky, the better) to use an open source app. In 9 cases out of 10, they will end up rejecting it like a bad organ transplant. That's why larger companies actually pay people who's sole purpose, more or less, is figuring out how to get people to want to keep using their software. Industrial Psychologist-type people. It's not just because your mom doesn't know better.

Re:And the Trolls come out to play...

[m50d]

Is saying this the new way to get a cheap +5? I see at least 6 posts like this and yet I can't see any of the posts they are complaining about. Maybe they're all at -1, but even so, by this stage aren't they redundant rather than insightful?

It is free as in beer...

[Harker]

After you've paid for the tour of the brewery...

H

It's the best Windows burner I've seen.

[khasim]

I bought it for Windows years ago and I've bought their upgrades.

I'll buy their Linux version and hope that the same expertise that made them the best Windows burner will make them the best Linux burner.

They're very focused on their core (CD burning) and they offer frequent updates to their software. I have no problems spending money on a company like that.

Nero is to K3B what Windows is to Linux

[Trejkaz]

K3B is a lot easier to use than Nero though, for a user who comes to both with no experience. One look at Nero made me hate it forever, back when I first started burning CDs. But when I finally discovered K3B, I found that I was actually able to burn disks without getting infuriated.

So I think you're right when you said "arguably."

The real question?

[Anonymous Coward]

How many copies of nero i have?
3

Can i use nero linux?
no

Am i going to get a linuxnero license?
no

Will oems bundle nero linux?
And the winner is:

That is a good idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a GNU/Faggot! The source to your asshole is open and free for anyone to modify.

too little too late

[0BoDy]

about 2 years ago, I was looking for a copy of nero that worked with linux. You know, right about the time k3b was released? I think that they're just a little behind the eight-ball since I can use a real gnome-navite app like nautilus-cd-burner, or sound-juicer instead. Would have been interested in the past. Now? not so much.

OEM...

[kosmosik]

Well nobody really buys Nero tools... Usually you get them along with burning (CDRW/DVDR) hardware as an OEM... So this is kind of cool - I haven't get a grip on that yet - you buy hardware and actually get a working software (? I haven't tried it yet) for Linux. For me it is something unusual... Point for Nero! Keep in mind that some stuff around burning CDs just can't be free (like in beer) since it is patented. But well... It is still some usefull stuff. It is nice that you get license on those stupid patented stuff when you buy hardware. Isn't it?

Not a big deal - buy licence then download

[dbIII]

I have to register, in affect purchase, a Windows binary in order to download the "free" Linux port.

That's what I did with Neverwinter Nights - and even Id's original Quake now that I think about it. There is plenty of software that you download after you purchase the licence, whether it is in a box or another form.

If you've paid for the licence they let you have a linux version for no extra cost - that's all it is. As soon as the word "free" is used people try to put theur own definitions on it - from the marketers at one extreme and RMS at the other.

The more cross platform apps that people are familiar with the better - there are a lot of clerical staff out there that never want to learn how to use a second computer program of the same type. If they use Nero as their first example of a CD burner they will expect everything else to behave identically.

I think NeroLINUX should be available without the requirement to purchase a Windows binary. I'm sorry for the guys at Nero, if they are doing this to help the extravagant costs of Windows development tools, then that's a shame

I think you are reading too much into it. Their method of getting licences out there is win32 CDROMs in boxes, and once you have a licence you can download. Setting up an alternative licenceing system would take work and expense in comparison to a cheap piece of plastic in a cheap box - you pay dollars for the software and but the packaging and media are worth cents. They've paid some guys to port their software and test it, so if we want to run it we should buy it - and if we don't want to there are alternatives.

This issue is bigger than linux - the more cross platform software out there the better.

If this is the case (to fund their Microsoft License costs) off of OSS dollars ... I do not want my dollar going to Microsoft, period.

Interesting view, but Nero will be giving proportionally less money to Microsoft if they are using other development and testing platforms, so your money would be going to Nero and helping them give less money to Microsoft.

It really doesn't make sense to buy a product I can not use in order to attain a "free" advertised product I CAN use.

Becuse you aren't really getting a "free" product - the marketers have been out spreading confusion. It's no more free than the plastic toy that comes extra with cornflakes. You can't go to the cornflakes manufacturers and demand your free plastic toy, you have to buy the cornflakes to get it. You are just buying Nero, it may come with win32 binaries on a piece of plastic, but the right to download other versions may be the important thing. To put things in perspective, if your peice of plastic is damaged you can download the win32 version as well, it's the proof that you paid them money that they care about.

Not really,

[MerlinTheWizard]

the ultimate step to Linux on the desktop would be some nice and warm adware - something that would pop up dozens of Windows at random times, all from nasty apps compiled against the commercial version of QT. :D Oh, and of course, it would break through your Linux firewall and recompile a modified Linux kernel behind your back. Does that sound nice already?

Re:Not really,

[gnuman99]

?? It can compile any kernel it want's to. No sane person would run root for desktop.

Fair enough

[einhverfr]

But what about something like SimpleCDRTools (or something like that) which I set up for my parents. Handles saved playlists for audio files, mastered cd images, etc.

Great little program. UI needs just a little streamlining, but still is pretty good. And it wraps all the wonderfully powerful command line tools :-)

gtk version

[camcorder]

What I really wonder, why they still use gtk1 while gtk2 is out for years, and rocks. Thanks to them, I realized I don't have any theme for gtk1 interface.

*Raises hand*

[EvanED]

I had a nice set of 3Dish cursors for a bit.

Plus most of the themes I've installed in the past have had new cursors, though I usually didn't use them.

Re:*Raises hand*

[natrius]

If you're on Slashdot, you're not a normal user.

A large aspect of designing software for normal people is providing sane defaults. Sure, it wouldn't hurt to have a GUI to change mouse cursors, but I don't think it's a glaring omission.

Why now? = k3b

[xtronics]

They have noticed that k3b is about to knock them out of the game.

I used to use Nero back when I ran a windows desktop. k3b is now a very good replacment.

Overlords

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one welcome our Nero Overlords...

"NeroLINUX is free-as-in-beer"

[Prototerm]

Umm...I don't get it. I usually have to pay for my beer. I mustn't go to the right bars.

Free CD-Burning for Windows?

[Kozz]

Admittedly, I'm a Windows user who likes familiar programs, Nero being one of them. But if there are free / OSS versions of cd burning software out there that can come even close to Nero, I would love to know about them. Do tell!

The more opportunities I have to rid myself of bigger commercial software ventures and donate to OSS projects, the better I feel about using that software.

Re:Free CD-Burning for Windows?

[Anonymous Coward]

CDBurnerXP Pro. It isn't OSS, but it is free. cdburnerxp.se Updates are pretty regular. I still prefer Nero over CDBurnerXP, however, CDBurnerXP it a lot better than the crap Roxio plops out. Also, if you make a donatation, you gain access to the beta releases as well as being able to influence the developement of the program by providing feedback during the beta cycles. a non a mouse

This is helpful how?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is interesting. Linux has had burnable CD support for about 8 or 9 years now. When CD burning was a big deal (and a new thing) Nero cheerfully snubbed Linux. Years passed. Linux got burning CD support (better than windows), then Linux got burning DVD support. Now, after all these years, Nero 'suddenly' finds Linux. Wow. I can get it, and have it occupy my hard disk, and I can get proprietary, less functional support with the option to buy, when I already have fine burning software. So how is this helpful? What good does it offer me? Sorry, but the time to market was about 8 or 9 years ago. As far as Linux is concerned, this ship has sailed.

Before you open your mouth...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey linux users, have a look at this:

http://www.geocities.com/leather_n_luv/linux.html

The main point of this...

[shutdown -p now]

... is to let CD/DVD-RW drive manufacturers distribute a Linux version of Nero with their products, just like they do with Windows version nowadays. Im fact, most sales of Nero/Win are OEM. Now some of those drives sold will feature a cute penguin logo on their box. Is that bad? Definitely no, even if you don't use Nero and never plan to.

stuff you can't do with Linux burning software

[dahlek]

This is a good thing. I love competition. I'm glad that there are several mpeg encoders, for example, and at least two major general transcoding packages for linux (mencoder and transcode)...

I also think it's pretty damn cool that despite all of the cool front-ends out there, basically just a handful of the same utilities are used.

I can think of a few things that the current linux combos of those utils can't accomplish, however, at least the last time I looked into each one:

• Writing clone-cd image files. Many off-site archival backups of Playstation games come in this format. There is no native linux utility of which I'm aware that can handle these. In any case, it's a bullshit format - the very good Windows utility CDMage can convert them to bin/cue format, which cdrdao-using programs can then burn. The conversion works 100% of the time, and CDMage runs in linux via WINE very well - still, this is an extra and time-consuming step...
• Writing cd+g (or is it +eg?) formats - Karoke cd's, that is. I wonder if Nero can do this?
• Writing an mp3 file on the fly in DOA mode. I haven't tested the DAO mode in cdrecord - but in my experience, most front-ends use cdrdao to burn DAO, and cdrdao can't be fed an input-stream (last I checked, anyway), because it needs a cue file as well as the bin-data. So, you must convert the mp3 files into waves first and then burn them in DAO mode. If you use cdrecord with a pipe (or a front end) to do this in real time, the result will be TAO.

So I for one welcome some new blood/competition (sorry, no 'overlords' joke), assuming Nero will write code from mostly-scratch (which I don't know because I didn't RTFA). BTW, I thought the Windows version of Nero ran under WINE, so this might be a way to handle some of the above anyway.

Re:stuff you can't do with Linux burning software

[coaxial]

Many off-site archival backups of Playstation games come in this format.

You mean warez?

Re:stuff you can't do with Linux burning software

[dahlek]

I'm sure some have been known to distribute warez in this fashion, yes ;)

In any case, linux software already supports cif and nrg formats, as well as of course iso and bin/cue. CloneCD is missing...I do believe the Windows version of Nero can write this format natively.

Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Just 5 second ago, I was just thinking that I love the nero 6 Ultra that I bought. I bought it for the purpose of encoding my video collections, and recently found out that they have one of the best encoders there is. They continue to give free updates. I only wished that it's more workable in linux, and here they release a version for linux.

So Bad

[XFilesFMDS1013]

That is so bad, and yet so funny. Damn it, I need to get some sleep.

Yay!

[talornin]

Go Nero! Go Nero!

This is great news!

So what if it isnt free as in freedom. Anyone who belives that Linux will have a chanse against Windows and OS X while running exclusively OSS needs to jank his or hers head out of the skies and get down to earth.

Im buying a lisence!

Lets wait and see...

[Volvogga]

The Nero 6 Line is up to 6.6.[something] if I remember right. So it shouldn't be too much longer before we are granted a Nero 7. With that in mind, it would seem to me that if they are serious about a Linux port, then they would include a Linux installer disk with their next release or have a windows box and linux box sitting on the shelves. I for one am willing to wait and see how much Nero wants to put into the pot on there new little business gamble.

Can't we go the other way?

[BumpyCarrot]

How about getting my FOS burners onto Windows? Or maybe there's a live distro that can do it instead? I'm tired of having to use Nero or ECDC when I'm maintaining my parents' machines.

Free to control our destiny.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Would you like to open your beloved OperatingSystem to the mainstream, would you want to see it become a real alternative to Windows, with commercial and proprietary applications?"

People are using it, so it is an alternative.

"Mainstream and real competetion equals to commercial stuff (and the author of this message thinks this is GOOD)."

Oh goodie. closed, and proprietary are coming to Linux. Now maybe Microsoft will take us seriously and REALLY start FUDDING us.

"Or do you prefer to stay geekie? Sugar-coke, kernel-hacks, geek-elitism, no sunlight, no showers, spots (and clearasil), jokes about years old bsd-girl-daemon-pics?"

Or prefer to be free of the hardware-rental, we need more money, we'll no longer support your choice of OS, we know what's good for you, here's some DRM for your troubles, oh do you own a Mac, so sorry, no software for you...that the closed-everything world eats up like candy, and then criticizes those who know better.

"Then let them know it (and greet the openbsd community in that case)."

The BSD's are friendlier to the closed-source world. just ask Apple.

"Decide for yourself."

Already have. So how much pain will it take for you all to learn better?

Which is it, sparkie?

[Xoro]

Here you lay down the law, saying, "Welcome to capitalism" yet in your post above you say, "How about stop whining and give them a little support".

Well, which is it? Nero is entering a niche market with 80% of potential users' needs met by a free competitor. Why not welcome them to capitalism? Instead, you stomp your feet and complain that users aren't cheering the arrival of a product they don't need and don't want.

There are plenty of cheers to go with the purist complaints when somebody ports something interesting to linux (like a popular game), but who the hell cares about Nero? As for the switchers you allude to, is there really anyone out there who is willing to give up their favorite games and office suite, but their cd-buring app is keeping them tied to Windows? It strains belief.

Maybe some people will use it maybe they won't. But the collective shrug seen here strikes me as an entirely appropriate response. Welcome to capitalism.

Re:Which is it, sparkie?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe what he is saying is that if you don't want to use Nero, then don't. But that we should be supportive of companies bringing their products to linux so other companies will see that there is a market and bring their products to linux. They are not going to spend the money to port an expensive CAD program without knowing that there is a good chance of success. The first programs that will get ported are going to be small.

Re:Which is it, sparkie?

[Kihaji]

Well, which is it? Nero is entering a niche market with 80% of potential users' needs met by a free competitor

Then why are there thousands of text editors on Linux if VI/Emacs does everything? Because the creators believe they have something unique and valuable to offer. Be it a slightly different way to look at text editing, or in the case of Nero, a consistent and refined UI developed by *gasp* professional UI developers, something the Linux world lacks.

Companies(projects) are not created because YOU think they offer something new, but because the creators think they do. It is up to the consumers to decide if they really do. So have a coke, a smile, shut the hell up, and actually *try* the software and decide for yourself. If you don't want to, then you have no basis for any arguments because you do not *know* what they have to offer.

Summary

[slapout]

So if you bought the Windows version, you can get the Linux version for free?

Screenshots here!

[julie-h]

It seams that Nero Linux is some wired mixture of GTK1 and Gnome.

To:sales@nero.com Subject: NeroLinux

[lrwx]

I would like to thank you for taking notice of linux, however, you made a couple of mistakes. Let us review. 1) I can get it for free IF I have a paid and registered for a windows version of the software. Just because we use "free" (as in speech) doesn't mean that we are below paying for a peice of software commercially. Hell I'd pay $29.99 for a good CD burning kit if it had noticably better features than my current software (k3b). Unforunatly I do have an issue with having to buy one piece of software that is completly useless to me to use another. I have not run (MS) Windows for at least 4 years and when I did I really did not have use for a cd burner anyways. I am not below paying for (quality) commecial software I own a copy of Photoshop CS that I use on my Apple G5. I play Doom 3, World of Warcraft, Half Life 2 and UT2k3-4 with cedega and I listen to and purchase music on iTunes using CrossOver Office. Each piece of the software I have purchased and use almost daily. Just sell it for $29.99 or whatever you guys charge for your software. 2) Unlike most Windows users Linux users will read the EULA and everything else we can find on and about the software. Why on earth did you use Microsoft's DRM on a Linux product. There is no way in hell you will catch any Linux user running that. Most Linux users absolutley hate Microsoft we use Linux not always because it's "free" but because it is better than the mainstream OS (Microsoft). Excuse the analogy but I prefer to be able to grab my OS by the balls and make it do what ever the hell I tell it to. DRM in most of our opinions removes fair-use from the game. Besides it's Microsoft. Can't you use some other form of DRM or other. Please. 3) It's a nice gesture you'll probably take a lot of flak for the way it was released. Don't stop though keep working on it. The only way you get a piece of software to be adopted by the linux community though is for it to be better than everything else. Seriously I do not see any benifit to my current software. I have no intentions of installing your software until you stop the farse of a "free copy" and just sell it for fuck's sake, and remove MS's DRM and use something more appropriate ( None MS ). Sincerly, JD Geier

How serious are they really?

[jejones]

I took a look at the web site, and clicked on the "buy" link. There's no way that I can just buy Nero for Linux. Either they haven't updated their web site completely, or they want to make me buy Nero for Windows in order to get Nero for Linux.

That, as Milton Friedman would say, distorts the commmunication that one's purchases constitute in a free market. I don't want Nero for Windows--I don't use Windows (save at work, under duress). I have no use for Nero for Windows...but there's no way I can communicate that to Nero with my money, the way they have it set up.

Re:How serious are they really?

[Anonymous Coward]

When you buy Nero, you just get a serial number in your email. If you don't want the Windows version, don't download it.

As for Friedman, if Nero doesn't care to know how many Linux only users they have, that's their problem.

Re:How serious are they really?

[shutdown -p now]

You can think of it as buying a single license for both Nero/Win and Nero/Linux.

And they can tell if you're going to use the Linux part of it - remember, you have to register on their website to get their Linux version, so they probably count people who do so.

Re:How serious are they really?

[16K Ram Pack]

It's not like you are exactly supporting Windows by doing so, is it? You don't have to have a Microsoft product to use this. It's probably more about how they've set this up - that it's a freebie for licensees.

Heck, it may even be that they did it this way because it's just cheaper than changing the ordering system on the website.

Re:How serious are they really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you could simply consider that there is a wording error on their website:

You buy Nero Linux, and you get Nero Windows for free(!) ;-)

Damn... $100

[FauxPasIII]

It's a shame it's so expensive... I try my damndest to buy from any company that supports their products on Linux. I
bought all but maybe 2 of Loki's games... even the ones that were dubious like Eric's Ultimate Solitaire.
But I just can't justify $100 for something that does less than what I can do with free software. Not a zealot
here, just have a house payment to make. =/

Re:Damn... $100

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought the whole reason Linux existed was to provide free and open source alternatives to commercial and closed source products.

finally

[rkv]

i hope alcohol 120% also does the same i love nero's capabilities

Do the editors actually edit?

[DarkMantle]

The German company Nero, developers of the award-winning Nero Burning ROM suite for windows...

I may be mistaken, but isn't Nero Burning ROM made by Ahead software? And Nero is the product.

if you go to http://www.ahead.de/en/index2.htm you get redirected to Nero.com, but that's still ahead softwares website.

Or on a news for nerds site, the editors don't need to be nerds and be aware of this?

Re:Do the editors actually edit?

[metricmusic]

Looks like they use both names, so either would be correct.

Actually, the company isn't 'Nero'

[Shark]

The company is 'Ahead' ;) But that's just a detail.

Nero Burning Rom Version 6.6.0.6

[Anonymous Coward]

Well the advantages of nero Burning rom, are that you can warez and use version 666 for windows. and then use that satanic cd key to run nero burning rom for linux, so your linux box doesn't have to go to heaven when your windows box gets to burn in hell.
IMO, nero version 6.6.0.6 is the last version they even need to make. what better versioning number can you make than 666 to defeat the evil windows built in cd-burning program for dominance in the market place? Nero Ultra 666 has earned Satans seal of approval for burning CD's/DVD's in hell.

This is good

[Reapman]

Unless people don't want Linux getting out to the masses, this can't be anything but good... sure it's not open source, free source code, but honestly some commercial apps for linux probably never will be... the more companies that are interested in linux the happier i am.

What kind of Linux software is this?

[HAKdragon]

None of the screenshots are in .png format! It's and outrage!

OEM = pirates?

[ewe2]

Somehow I'd be more impressed if I was given this option with my next DVD burner. I've never *seen* a full version of Nero 6, so it's not as if they're rolling out the red carpet to your average user. I wouldn't be too impressed if I were a drive manufacturer.

OTOH, it's a great way of sorting out the pirate reg keys, don't you think?

Nero ALREADY runs on linux

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

It was reported a while ago that recent versions of Nero run on Linux using recent versions of WINE.
HERE

Re:Nero ALREADY runs on linux

[rinkjustice]

Yeah, I'm sure it runs without a hitch too. Good one.

Fact is, the burning utils currently available for Linux are horrible for anyone less than a zealot hacker endowed with the patience of a saint. The shocking lack of file-sharing apps, working media players and other such staples of a workstation operating system is the very reason all the many Linux distributions combined accounts for only 3% marketshare.

Re:Nero ALREADY runs on linux

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Yeah, I'm sure it runs without a hitch too. Good one.

I expect that it is very stable.
The main nero application does three things:

1) Basic GUI user interaction
2) Read files
3) Compose ATAPI CDB's and send them to the burner

The first two are dead simple, it isn't like Nero's doing any Direct3D rendering, wine's had that level of functionality for years. The third is as close to talking to the raw hardware as you can get, it probably uses Linux's scsi pass-thru driver, thus by-passing the kernel for 99% of the work.

Re:Nero ALREADY runs on linux

[DonCarlos]

Try k3b http://www.k3b.org/ and stop moaning. In case you got problems with k3b and still think you lack your "zealot hacker" skills to burn a CD, I think you got more problems using computers than just burning.

Re:Nero ALREADY runs on linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Try k3b http://www.k3b.org/ [k3b.org] and stop moaning. In case you got problems with k3b and still think you lack your "zealot hacker" skills to burn a CD, I think you got more problems using computers than just burning.

Don't be too hard on him - he has a Geocities page.

I expect that to him, anyone who uses the Windows command prompt is some kind of crazy 1337 zealot hacker.

Schilling

[Anonymous Coward]

While I agree Nero is too late to the party maybe it's good to give Schilling some competition. Someone needs to keep him in check after all the fiascos he's caused. First ide-scsi and now the 2.6 kernel CD burning problems.

The more disc burning programs there are the more Schilling will have to shut up and sit down.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

I *am* the target market for this.

[likewowandstuff]

I am one of those Windows users who has spent a lot of time looking at Linux distros but has yet to commit. I am studying for those basic certifications I need to be taken semi-seriously and recognize the need to move to Linux for reasons both personal and professional. I have spent the money on Nero Ultra Edition for the sake of having a lot of stable tools beneath the fairly unattractive interface.

Being able to keep (some of) these tools while I move on to greener pastures will make life just a little easier, and I will feel that my money was better spent.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[unixbugs]

...you can have it. The whole point of open source software is to know what it's doing and how it does it.

I have to say... I found your innocent comment almost insulting!

Personally I don't think this article's subject is any reason whatsoever to use Linux.

Sure, sure, go burn your stupid CD with the click of a mouse. Wee. Get hooked so nobody else's projects will ever make it. What are you going to do with your mouse when all the other projects are dead and you can't use Nero anymore because upgrades cost too much or your version "is not supported"? Buy something else? Ahh, that's it, you'll take your money elsewhere because you are used to paying out the nose for something you can't even own. Proprietary obsolescense at it's best.

Yeah, I know, "but the article says it's free". For now at least. This article really rubs me the wrong way. I can't stand the fact that it made it here. If I wasn't so tired (and drunk) I'd take the time to write you a script that could handle alot of the most common things needed for burning several types of CD's. Maybe I'll work on that tomorrow just to spite these fuckers.

I use Linux for the same reason I bought a truck that didn't come with an EULA saying I can't open the hood. Alot of developers and admins make better money doing other things besides putting buttons on a bash script and trying to package it like this. I'm reminded of when Visual Basic first came out. All these crapware apps hit the scene doing simple shit like a graphical traceroute and sign-u-on-alot, etc - some eventually growing together and becoming big money. Sickening to think this could happen to Linux where no source code could be available and the whole Idea lost to a generation of "converts".

Think about this. Why bother "Making The Big Switch" just because of something like this? I stuck with the tools I need to get my job done and done well. Stick with Windows. It will make my job of fixing bugs and hammering out workstation and server images alot easier if I don't have to include a bunch of shit that nobody can fix or understand why it broke because there is no source. We leave that bullshit for the Windows Guys. Talk about a miserable bunch, "ah just format it again".

Granted I'm not having the best day either, but that isn't because of the worm/bug/feature going around rebooting Server 2003 right now that nobody can seem to track down.

I realize alot of you think this might be a step in the right direction, but it's not. First of all, how many distro's do you think this will support (or be supported by)? You sure as hell aren't going to see a tgz of source code coming from them any time soon. Secondly, who could possibly benefit from this in the long run? Has history taught us nothing? Is this what we really want to become of each and every app that we use? CD's are allready designed to rot as it is, that itself is bad enough without having to rely on someone to provide us with software to write them.

Despite what you may think of my slant on this there is a very simple fact you cannot ignore: for each person like me, there are 10 Microsofties with a shitload of money and weight to throw around because of the name they carry. That is not to say anything good about the jobs they have, or anything bad about the money I make, its to show what it took to bring Linux here to begin with. It wasn't done by a bunch of mild mannered and sheepish fucktards who did what they were told, that's for sure.

If you don't like my opinion, do what everyone else does, censor it by modding it down.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am studying for those basic certifications I need to be taken semi-seriously..

None of them. Not a single Linux certification is worth a damn. If you think having an MCSE equivilent will get you taken seriously as a Linux or Unix sysadmin, you can just save yourself the time and trouble and stick with Windows herding.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[galenoftheshadows]

Wow man! Slow ya roll...

I don't think that there's any issue with someone who likes the idea of commercially produced software being built for an open source operating system.

So this makes someone more interested in converting his pee-cee to Linux, you don't have to support him. If he can't figure it out, he's already paid his big bucks to them anyways...

I agree with you that Linux has had a hard struggle, hell I've been using it since around '94 and it's come a long way. Just because people charge money for software that runs on it, doesn't mean that we're going to just drop our current projects of the same scope.

I have no intention of using NeroLinux simply because I'm already set in my way with XCDRoast/cdrecord. It's simple, it does everything I need, and it hasn't toasted on disc yet.

As for whether I like your opinion or not, well, that really is moot, as I simply disagree with it... Personally, I think you're quite zealous, and could use a little alcohol treatment (in moderation) to keep your moods a bit more leve, instead of going off the deep end about something so ridiculous.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[Guppy06]

"Ahh, that's it, you'll take your money elsewhere because you are used to paying out the nose for something you can't even own."

The money will at least influence feature sets, while it seems more than a few OSS projects will implement features only when the developers feel like it.

"If I wasn't so tired (and drunk) I'd take the time to write you a script that could handle alot of the most common things needed for burning several types of CD's."

"Can" and "will" are two very different things. If nobody who is able is actually willing to do something better, what right do you have to complain when potential users go elsewhere?

"Maybe I'll work on that tomorrow"

Ah, the battle cry of the OSS movement!

"I use Linux for the same reason I bought a truck that didn't come with an EULA saying I can't open the hood."

I bought Windows for the same reason I bought a car that doesn't require me to be a certified mechanic to operate it. Just because I can open the hood of my car and maybe change the oil doesn't mean I know how to do (let alone enjoy doing) complete engine rebuilds.

"I stuck with the tools I need to get my job done and done well."

I don't want my computer to be my "job." I want it to just freakin' work (or at least a reasonable facsimile) without having to know anything about assembly language. It's similar to why I'm a console gamer.

"First of all, how many distro's do you think this will support (or be supported by)?"

Another aspect that turns me off Linux is the whole "31 flavors" aspect of it. Even if hell freezes over and I find an app to do what I want it to do (and it's more than just some website saying that the beta will be released "any day now"), I have to continue jumping through hoops to try to make it work with my flavor of choice.

"It wasn't done by a bunch of mild mannered and sheepish fucktards who did what they were told, that's for sure."

At least the folks who do what they are told actually do something.

"If you don't like my opinion, do what everyone else does, censor it by modding it down."

A pro-Linux rant on Slashdot? Modded down? You're new around here, aren't you?

The last time I tried installing Linux, the boot disc couldn't find the ATA controller card my hard drives were attached to, giving it nothing to install onto. I've bent over backwards to get XP running reasonably well on my machine, I have no desire to go even further for an operating system that everybody says is supposed to change all that. I'd rather spend my time/fustration on getting an SNES emulator to run on my PS2.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[Synbiosis]

Sure, sure, go burn your stupid CD with the click of a mouse. Wee. Get hooked so nobody else's projects will ever make it. What are you going to do with your mouse when all the other projects are dead and you can't use Nero anymore because upgrades cost too much or your version "is not supported"? Buy something else? Ahh, that's it, you'll take your money elsewhere because you are used to paying out the nose for something you can't even own. Proprietary obsolescense at it's best.

As long as people like you rule the Linux community, Linux will never become a legitimate operating system. It's amusing how long Linux has survived with people like you running it. It's no surprise that until recently, it was only restricted to overweight recluses with feet of facial hair.

Re:I *am* the target market for this.

[2004.3]

Don't be fooled. The majority of FOSS software users aren't the RUTE-thumpin' Stallmanites you think they (I mean we) are. Most of us are too busy enjoying our computers, or helping others with theirs, to bother climbing onto a soapbox and preach that kind of crap.

there's more than one community

[QuantumG]

Linus and probably half the kernel hackers would like nothing more than what you suggest. The people who put together Debian would consider your proposal the exact opposite of what they want. You being an insulting little prick doesn't help either.

GPL???

[yangyangyyy]

it looks like wxWindows to me

Re:GPL???

[m50d]

wxWindows is lgpl, remember?

Support Nero

[Anonymous Coward]

The Linux community desperately needs Nero! Nero will be a huge improvement over the rediculously inadaquate and counterintuitive burning apps currently available.

One doesn't have to read catch-22...

[Vishruth]

Have you actually read Catch-22?

The body of your post is not an example of Catch-22, never mind a good example.

One doesn't have to read Catch-22 to know what the word means. Since catch-22 is a dictionary term now, all one needs to do is look up the word in a dictionary to find out the meaning of the word.

Quoting The Oxford Dictionary of English (2nd Edn.) (note: there is a spoiler about the novel in the 'ORIGIN' part, below):

catch-22, noun a dilemma or difficult circumstance from which there is no escape because of mutually conflicting or dependent conditions: [as modifier] a catch-22 situation.
-ORIGIN 1970s: title of a novel by Joseph Heller (1961) in which the main character feigns madness in order to avoid dangerous combat missions, but his desire to avoid them is taken to prove his sanity.

But you were right on one account.

If a commercial software vendor doesn't support linux people bitch. If a commercial software vendor does support it people bitch that the software isn't GPL. If the software gets GPL'd, people bitch that it hasn't been ported to their distros of choice.

That does not qualify as a catch-22 situation. 'catch-22' cannot be used in every lose-lose situation.

Sorry for taking this discussion completely off-topic, but the parent started it! :p

Excellent... that's what we need...

[Anonymous Coward]

...well known software migrated to Linux...

thx. to Nero for the initiative.

Comments slashdotted. Here is the text

[Ilgaz]

Its closed source, you must buy it, there is free opensource command line tool, Nero is dieing.

Move on...

Both..

[Henk Poley]

"We want" both. There are so many groups, and so many individuals who all use Linux. There is room for both.

I hope you can understand that.

It's kind of like Doom3

[Jafar00]

They are doing a similar thing as Doom 3 and Unreal Tournemant. Buy the windows version and you can use the native Linux client. It's good for those windows users used to Nero and want to migrate to Linux. Personally, k3b does all I need, but if I had bought a copy of Nero for windows, I'd consider this a nice gesture. Thanks Nero guys! :)

Re:It's kind of like Doom3

[Jafar00]

Yes, Yes.. did I really spell Tournament like that? It's early and I haven't had my coffee yet ok? ;)

Not everyone need to give support

[r6144]

The only people who should try to support the company making Nero are those who actually need to use it themselves --- this is as true for such non-free softare as for FOSS. For the rest of us, this is probably less useful than Emacs to a vi-fan, and we can whine all we want without affecting the company or anyone else in any way, as long as both sides keep facts straight (which seems to be mostly true here) so that new users are not misled. There is no point in arguing with personal opinions such as whether CLI or GUI is easier to use --- if enough users want Nero on Linux, good; if the number of users who prefer Nero to the competing FOSS solutions is too low to keep the company happy, they may well stop and it won't affect Desktop Linux much, as a whole.

Bad Dialog box K3d can burn it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just have to set the right option not on a linux machine at moment but I have burn stuff like that before without problem. There is a option that lets k3d burn strange stuff just find it.

Have you ever used a recent version of K3B??

[Asdex]

Have you ever used a recent version of K3B?
Surely K3B has some bugs (see bugs.kde.org) but burning files (even "--readme.txt") just works.

Re:Have you ever used a recent version of K3B??

[Minna Kirai]

Have you ever used a recent version of K3B?

I experienced the bug with K3b 0.11.20 (from KDE 3.3.2). It seems that -readme won't trigger it, the hyphen must need to come after the 64th character or something.

^ modpoints please....

[flibberdi]

There is not much point in me going "me too", but here goes... me to

There seems to be some misconception about Linux users, mostly that we are only "in it" for the "free beer", this is NOT the case!! I have paid for the software I use (if there was an option..).

NO VIDEO TRANSCODING :(

[danboid]

I was overjoyed to hear that Ahead have started supporting Linux, now we just need the big products from Adobe and Macromedia to be ported then 90% of non-gaming windows users could switch totally to Linux (the other 10% want Fruity Loops and Cool Edit!).

I checked out the demo version of nerolinux today but I was disappointed with its lacking (compared to the Windows version) feature set- primarily in the area of video support.

k3b does pretty much everything I want as far as burning is concerned and does it very well, so I was hoping nerolinux would enable me do that one thing that k3b doesn't yet- quickly and easily convert a divx/xvid/mpeg/quicktime or whatever to a video DVD or VCD. No such luck.

If they include a fast video transcoder and maybe even a DVD or VCD menu editor in the next release (I just hope there will be a next release....) and PREFERABLY split it off from the Windows bundle into an individual product then I would gladly fork out for it.

Great news

[Erik_]

In 2003, when Nero came out with their Windows v5.5 version and a few months later with the v6 release, I was happy to pay them their 40+35(upgrade) Euros for their product. It was a very good investment... and now in 2005 I get to use NeroLinux for free :-)

Windows users with proper purchased Nero v6 license will be the ones to most benefit from this release...

Senseless(!)

[Anonymous Coward]

Greetings,

well, what's the only thing justify properitary burning sotware on linux? (3...2....1...0 beep) jeep: Mpeg 2.
All features NeroLinux include are included in k3b.
k3b offers same compatibility, a user friendly GUI and uses well established and tested routings (crdao, cdrecord, mkisofs).
But it lacks, when it comes to Video-DVDs / SVCDs. Due to patent issues, you cannot use mpeg2. But Nero (on Win32) is good at Mpeg2. It includes an mpeg2 encoder (NeroVision), the ability to create menus, DVDs and so on.
This is, where current Linux GUIs lacks.
For now, nero is just a k3b clone.

Windows migrants

[m50d]

Really. It doesn't matter that k3b looks nicer and does the same thing, they're more comfortable knowing it's the same program available on linux.

A Bit Late to the Dance?

[Zontar The Mindless]

...I was never that impressed with Nero when I was a Windows user. I've run assorted versions on about 5 different machines: I found it to be a major resource hog, and at best had a failure rate of about 1 in 4 disks.

Since switching to Linux, I've become totally satisfied with k3b, which has worked perfectly for me "out of the box" with SuSE 9.2. It's about twice as fast as Nero was on the same machine running Win2K, and it's roughly 100 for 100 burn attempts so far.

Some of the difference may well be due to the fact that Linux handles multitasking better than Windows in any case. Maybe the pay-for versions of Nero are really lots better than the OEM versions (all I've ever used). Even so... Why should I pay for something to replace a free product that (as far I've been able to tell) already performs perfectly?

neroLINUX data dvd 38mins K3B 13mins same data

[Anonymous Coward]

just downloaded it, and tested them against each other.

neroLINUX complained about magicdev (mdk10.1OE)
ran as-installed, no config changes.

COOL! But...

[otis wildflower]

.. What can it do that K3b can't?

More apps are better, but the best thing is competition. If Nero being available for Linux means K3b getting better (and vice versa) I'm happy.

Still, for what I need it for, K3b is pretty useful.

I don't want Nero for linux.

[Anonymous Coward]

I want dvdshrink for linux!

Yes, it runs under WINE.
But no ASPI.

I've actually tried it NeroLinux

[twodot72]

I haven't seen any comment yet from anyone who's tried NeroLINUX. I have, since I already had a license for the Win version (one of very few apps I've ever bought for Win).

Well, it's far from as feature-rich as the Windows version for the time being, but it works and is easy to use. The user interface is similar to GnomeToaster as someone said, but more polished. However, I don't think it is a frontend to the usual tools, there are a number of libs in the distribution too, and there's no configuration for the usual back-end tools (cdrecord etc).

At is stands today, K3d is more feature-rich, and I wouldn't spend money on NeroLINUX if I didn't have the Win version already and could get the Linux version for free. However, it's easy to use and I'll probably do so too.

BTW, I think Nero as a company behaves very well for a closed-source shop. The application suite is not very expensive compared to all the various apps that are included, and you can download updates for free for a long time (until they release a new major version number which seems to happen quite seldom).

Re:I've actually tried it NeroLinux

[cwsulliv]

Have you used it with the "verify" option enabled? I'm getting verify errors after writing a CD-R. I tried it on two different drives on one PC and a drive on another PC, running FC2 and RH9 respectively. (I get no errors when running either K3b or gToaster on these drives.)

k3b

[Celt]

I've been using Nero for years and I gota say k3b and nero are almost the same.
Choices are always good though :)

Linux freeloading pissies.

[Conor Turton]

Nice to see the Linux freeloader brigade bitching again.

Perhaps some of the freeloaders would like to put their money where their mouth is and help out the Mozilla project?

Actually, it is...

[twodot72]

They've changed name from Ahead to Nero!

Re:Actually, it is...

[Shark]

Oh the sneaky bastards! And here I was trying to look smart... I'll sue! ;)

Why do i have to buy the windows version?

[pomac]

As the subject said, why do i have to pay for the windows version when i want the linux version?
I don't have the problems with commandline thingies since i use nautilus cd burner and i have never had any problems with it. And why are there no screenshots? I won't just buy a windows version to get a linux burner "free" if i dunno what it can do and looks like.

(Judging from neros other ui's the ui should be good but who knows)

Oh, and since i recently aquired a amd64, why there is no 64 bit version =).

Re:Why do i have to buy the windows version?

[Bambi Dee]

As the subject said, why do i have to pay for the windows version when i want the linux version?

Not sure, but they don't provide tech support for the Linux version either. Perhaps it's just not a "full" product to them? *shrug*

And why are there no screenshots?

Because you didn't look here ;)

Re:Why do i have to buy the windows version?

[pomac]

Well now that i have seen the screenshots i have to say that i wonder, that thing looks exactly like gtoaster and... that ui wasn't good to begin with =P...

Burning is one thing on Linux I'm 100% with

[ZeppelinChild]

mkisofs and cdrecord for all my data, cdrdao and gcdmaster for all my audio needs. Pre-gaps, hidden "0" tracks, all that is really easy to do. I set my Mom up with Nero on her Windows box and kinda had a hard time of getting it. Although I would like a flashy, easy jewel case sleeve-designer program. Hrm. At the same time, that's with my supported CD-RW, purchased after careful study of cdrdao supported drives. If Nero brings more driver support to Linux, then all the power to them!

Ok, but k3b is still free

[nurb432]

While this is a 'good thing' and need to give some credit to them, many of us are quite happy with the *free* offerings available today.

I'm the opposite

[Anonymous Coward]

When I am looking for software for a specific task, I always do my best to avoid GPLed software. 9 times out of 10 the Shareware or BSD/PubDom software will be more functional and easier to use than the GPLed stuff. I used to be a real Linux fanatic but now I have switched back to Windows and Shareware/Commercial software, just because I need to get some work done and not have the endless struggle of trying to get the most simple tasks to work on Linux.

In short: I don't WANT the source code. I want to program to work as soon as I download it so I don't have to code anything myself.

the GPL is piss in the Linux pool

[Anonymous Coward]

The GPL is like piss in the Linux pool. It is too dangerous for commercial developers to enter.

What about NeroVision Express?

[martinm_76]

The one part of the Nero suite that I would really like to see on Linux is NeroVision Express. It is very easy to make basic DVD's with or without animated buttons and stuff with that program. The more complex things is apparently out of its league (like designing each menu page and out-of-order chapter placing), but for most things, it's quite good.

It doesn't seem to be included in their Nero for Linux stack (yet?). I think they could easily make some money on that program if it had at least the feature-set of the current Windows version as regards VCD/SVCD/DVD creation and movie editing, etc...

If there's actually a NeroVision program that has more features then bring it :)

Agreed...

[galenoftheshadows]

...Or at least the sense of trying something new that could possibly give them a better [computer] working environment...

But that's really the same diff, ain't it? :-P

Uh

[MerlinTheWizard]

"Sane person" and "average user joe" just doesn't add up. This was kind of a worst-case scenario, this was also meant to be funny - just in case you took it too seriously.

And by the way, of course no Windows user runs their desktop with Administrator rights? Uh huh! Why would it be any different if Linux became mainstream? It's not like it is any difficult to create users on Windows... yet practically nobody does that (I mean, maybe less than 5%?)

Re:Uh

[HotGarbage]

You are right. I don';t know anyone who uses a limited account for themselves in windows. They may make limited accounts for their kids, but not for themselves. It is too much a pain in the ass. However, spyware doesn't care if the user has admin rights or not, it still get's in on my kids accounts. My kids will tell me that their computer runs too slow because of the spyware, and I tell them that I didn't know because my laptop runs Debian..Sorry HA

Re:Uh

[MerlinTheWizard]

Well, spyware will still get on a restricted account, but it won't be able to make as much damage. If it gets bad, just delete the kid's account and create a new one. You won't (usually) have to re-install Windows or spend hours cleaning it, which is a big relief.

Re:Uh

[HotGarbage]

That is what I have been doing so far. Personally, I don't use windows if I don't absolutely have to (at work I have no choice.) Even with all the precautions they use at work, I still see a considerable amount of spyware that accumulates from multiple users on the network. There has to be a better way to control spyware on winboxen.

Re:Uh

[MerlinTheWizard]

There is: you have to be extra careful, all of the time. Secondly, you have to update everything on a very frequent basis (check at least once or twice a week). What it basically takes is: educated users and a decent administrator (if there are more than 5 to 10 computers in a LAN, I *strongly* suggest that there be someone in charge for administrating them).

In a work setting, most users *should* have restricted user rights on Windows (ie., no right to install software). And they should not read personal email on work computers. Period. With both these principles, pretty much nothing can go wrong... And most users don't need both these things to work. If software installation is needed - ask the administrator.

If you don't want to follow these, well, you just suffer. The company's choice, really. :)

Get back to me later

[Craig Maloney]

Well, this looks interesting, but I'm going to wait on checking it out until there's a way for me to purchase just the Linux version without having a useless Windows version laying around the house.

Nero is good software

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously... it has to be one of the best cd burning programs for Windows. Glad to see it make the migration, but too bad it will still cost you $50 to get a copy.

Try It before you slam it.

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems everyone wants to put it down complaining about any number of things but have you tried it first, No? then I suggest you stop critizing it before it has a chance to get reviewed.

My main stay for burning in linux has been XCDroast and it has done fine, I have used K3B and somtimes used the command line and was quite interested in Nero for linux. I allready use Nero in windows and by the way their is 2 interface styles to Nero.

If you use the OEM you get the lite quick start version and no access to the full version, if you own the full version you can choose which way you want it. The older GUI has not changed that much and anyone who has owned full Nero knows this.

So complaining about the lite version and not having used the full version is again lame.

Now any software I have used has good points and bad points and that is for any OS I have used it in.

So I just went and picked up the NeroLINUX and installed it to my MDK 10.1, it installed fine and I am burning a DVD image right now.

Now my only problem is out of all 3 programs I have used, K3B, XCDRoast, NeroLINUX I still cannot get higher than 4x burn on my DVD's and yes I have a 16x burner and 8x media that does 12x burn in Nero in windows, hehe any tips would be helpfull..

To sum it up try it before you blast it out of the water.

how dumb can you get ?

[fea]

This is about the stupidest offer I have ever seen ? You can't even try it out without buying a Windows version ? Come on Nero, you are fiddling while Rome is burning down around you. this is what you should do: either allow the OEM version serial numbers to work (which I do have one purchased with my Yamaha drive), or simply allow Linux trial version that you could purchase later, or simply give it away to sway customer away from k3b (which is free and works better) you are Soooo stupid ! Further, you have wasted my time getting to this point (realize what your offer really is) and now I distrust you and would think twice before ever buying anything from your. You guys are complete idiots ! IDONTUSEWINDOWS

There is a little detail...

[Maljin Jolt]

...people usually do ignore about personally registered licenses for proprietary closed source burning software: Nero puts it's own serial number encoded on every shiny disc it burns. Maybe, in near future, that could be a big problem for some of you fans of Nero. Depending on what you actually burn, luxury in clicking may cost hard, then.

Insightful-I think not!

[Anonymous Coward]

All right joker here's the deal: This caters to MY needs. So strike your comment about it's for noone. I already own Nero for Windows and now they have given me a free port of it to Linux. This is great news for me and their other paying customers. If you don't like that then guess what? You DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

Its new. shutup

[racerx509]

Its new software that has been released for linux. New GOOD software that has been released. Quit yer bitching and praise nero for releasing it. Nuff said. You don't have to buy it, just be glad its out.

eh?

[terrox]

I never understood "free-as-in-beer". Or more like I never remember what it means, wonder if many other people understand it. Just turns me off when people say things that make no sense.

Re:eh?

[Anita Coney]

Actually, the expression is "free as in bear." You know how bears are free to run around the woods naked, shit in the woods, and eat salmon. Now that's the life for me.

Dude, thanks.

[likewowandstuff]

If I wasn't so tired (and drunk) I'd take the time to write you a script that could handle alot of the most common things needed for burning several types of CD's. Maybe I'll work on that tomorrow just to spite these fuckers.

Dude, I appreciate the offer. I have no delusions over the longevity of this product or the number of distributions it will work with (three, and not the ones I was looking at). I was just saying it was cool that I might get a little more milage from a purchase.

Nero- Linux -Windows XP

[frsmith]

Have you thought that Nero are reacting to WinXP having a free burner? The writing is on the wall for these companies. You build a good product for windoze and it becomes the 'defacto' standard, Bill just uses the best bits and if you dont sell you die. Just MS doing it's thing. Nero must be thinking Linux offers a better market, but it's a different market to the windows one. Cheers Bb

Re:Bad Dialog box K3d can burn it.

[TuringTest]

Why do you have to find it? If it exist, it should be enabled by default - and it shouldn't be an option, it should "just work" from start.

Hmph... Poorly put

[Allen Zadr]

The troll tone of the previous aside... this comment is actually pretty-much dead-on.

Certifications...

[Allen Zadr]

There are very few places that look for Linux certs during the hire process. And the few that do, are doing so because they have nobody who knows Linux already, and they need it to support some big product their IT department was just told to install. In this type of shop.. you'd also be expected to have experience doing Linux (or at least UNIX) administration in a corporate environment.

Otherwise, the Aplus cert has some Linux troubleshooting now, and can (at least) be applied to more aspects of what you're doing (one of the few certs that I don't feel is a waste of time).

I am an IT director and a Linux user (currently Fedora Core 3 and RedHat Enterprise Linux 4).

Worst episode ever

[r_jensen11]

Welcome to the internet my friend, how can I help you? I'm interested in upgrading my twenty eight point eight kilobaud internet connection to a one point five megabit fibre-optic T-1 line. Will you be able to provide an IP router that's compatable with my token ring ethernet LAN configuration?

I still don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you explain please? kthxbye