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PearPC Trying to Sue CherryOS
Varg Vikernes writes "PearPC developers are taking in donations to sue Maui X-Stream, the developers of the MAC emulator software CherryOS. There have been allegations that CherryOS is nothing more than PearPC code, which is open-source, but with a GUI attached to it. One of the PearPC developers tried to get in contact with someone from Maui X-Stream, but eventually were told to "speak with an Attorney" about the allegations. "
fp?
It might be worthwhile mentioning that CherryOS (PearPC) is not a "MAC" (sic) emulator, but rather a general PowerPC architecture and motherboard emulator. PearPC presents itself as such. However, CherryOS markets and specifically targets itself at Mac OS X. Unfortunately, Apple's Mac OS X license agreement specifically states it can only be installed on an Apple-branded computer. Aside from the PearPC issues, CherryOS is a commercial product actively encouraging its users to break Apple's Mac OS X license agreement. And yes, this license agreement is binding: that's why no one makes clones. (And no, Apple "ROMs" are no longer required. Haven't been for ages.)
Funnily enough, Maui X-Stream president Jim Kartes said:
We are building an emulator like they are that uses Mac language. PearPC uses Mac language and next thing you know, they say we are using their code. This is a totally different architecture.
This comment makes no sense. "PearPC uses Mac language" has no meaning, and is, if anything, indicative of the fact that this company does not fundamentally understand the operation of innards of their product, which isn't surprising, since they didn't create it. PearPC is essentially a PowerPC motherboard emulator, which emulates a PowerPC processor, and various necessary elements of a PowerPC motherboard. I think what Kartes is trying to claim is that because PearPC and CherryOS do the same thing, it's no surprise that they'd appear similar. This claim is absurd, because the evidence is overwhelming that CherryOS is using PearPC as the emulation engine. CherryOS is essentially a graphical wrapper for PearPC, which does nothing more than pass instructions to PearPC and execute PearPC within itself. It tries to conceal, rather poorly, that PearPC is what's running underneath. Aside from the proof of very unique shared strings and symbols above, CherryOS also shares PearPC's featureset, or lack thereof in the case of support for sound and networking, and even PearPC's specific bugs. In sum, any claim that CherryOS and PearPC would share unique strings, variable names, and symbols simply because they're both emulators is ridiculous. Also, saying "Mac language" is really irrelevant because, aside from not making sense, PearPC (and CherryOS) doesn't have anything to do with the Mac or "Mac language". It's a *PowerPC* emulator. The fact that a Mac operating system runs on it is incidental; PearPC (and CherryOS) doesn't contain or use anything that could be referred to as "Mac language".
eWeek has a general overview of the situation:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1775386,00.as p
Below is a comprehensive collection of evidence, which runs the gamut from CherryOS including original PearPC graphics, extremely unique strings and error messages, debug code from PearPC, the same unique MAC address as PearPC's default network adapter (of which there are approximately 184884258895036416 different combinations), shared specific functionality, including bugs, and so on, not to mention code from other GPL projects:
http://www.ht-technology.com/cherryos-pearpc/cherr yos-pearpc.html
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0501.html
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0503.html
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0504.html
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/00 0507.html
As a GPL developer I understand that the GPL needs court cases to maintain validity. So I donated $15. Please consider doing the same.
but eventually were told to "speak with an Attorney" about the allegations."
In other words, "STFU."
The preceding message was based on actual events. Only the names, locations and events have been changed.
The Pear or the Cherry?
Obligatory corny fruit joke:
There's not a valid suit there...it's like comparing apples to oranges!
Badum-chh!
I justed donated.
I'd like to see the GPL tested over this a bit more. It just adds one more opinion in future events.
That and this guy blatenly misuses GPL'd code repeatedly and then has the audacity to tell the world that he wrote it all.
Proceed with Format (Y/N)? Y
Turd POst
This should have been done when the allegations first surfaced but better late than never. The more GPL authors who stand up for their rights in court, the fewer vultures will try to rip off GPL code.
yeah, this is gonna be a test of the GPL. EFF, step forward. epic battle of intellectual property the way we define it, against the way they define it. americans, put away your guns.
coders, continue prepping releases. the point of open source is that things never get stale. if cherryOS is a ripoff today, ain't nothin' stoppin' PearOS from doing another point release in upgrade, and surfing their stupid PR blunder into fame...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
PearPc shouldnt do anything, That company will just suffer from a quick death, hell who would buy their product? After they realize how slow it is, they will probably ask for their money back.
keanmarine.com
A NIC emulator? Maybe the submitter meant that it's a PowerPC emulator.
GPL software developer suing blatant copyright infringer - GOOD
Music industry suing blatant copyright infringer - BAD
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
That annoys me so much I could strangle a manatee in the nude.
Do not touch -Willie
Lets just hope that SCO dosent "accept donations" also to sue who ever. on a serious note how did cherryOS think that they were going to get away with copying pearpc almost for vabtum?
MAC is a hardware address. Mac is a computer. Sheeesh. You guys can run websites, program computers, build network infrastructure but you can't remember the difference between Mac and MAC?
*sigh*
Because, that would be different.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Sue individual GPL infringers. Yay! Sue individual P2P downloaders. Boo!
Note: If you don't fall into those majority mindsets, then this doesn't apply to you. But based on editorial positions and the upmodding of discussion articles, Slashdotters appear to be just fine with infringing copyrights on P2P networks but get pissed when people infringe copyrights of GPL projects.
that's one disfunctional fruit salad...
Rise up in the cafeteria and STAB them with your plastic forks!
Stop wasting your time and energy. PearPC will benefit much more from time in a debugger than from time in an attorney's office. The money is wasted. Nobody wins except for the lawyers.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
You give more and more power to companies to "defend their IP" and you end up having the little guy run over like this. When CherryOS originally came out it was booting verbatim like PearPC and now you have this. They stole the PearPC developers' code and now costly litigation will probably be necessary. On top of that, where is the liability for those who may have funded the company responsible here?
There was a case recently where a small American company got royally screwed over by Toshiba too. Toshiba took the technology that was being developed for flash memory and practically gave it to San Disk. Does the government itself go tooth and nail after the big company? Of course not because "we can't punish the entire company for a few men's actions..."
Since most of the innovation comes from small time companies and individuals, those are the ones that the government should be putting the most effort into protecting from theft of their hard work. That means better protection from big companies using IP to crush them so they can rape and pillage the innovations of the smaller companies.
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
Time and Time again The pearPC team has shown evidence of the inclusion of their GPL licensed code in the code of CherryOS , What has CherryOS done,,Well they have stuck two middle fingers up and said "prove it" . . . .
The reason we use the GPL for our(as in gpl users, im not on the pearpc team) code is that we strongly belive in the principles of copyleft , keeping the code free
I can't 100% say that the PearPC team are right on this , though all the evidence i have seen has supported my belife that they are.
The GPL needs legal victorys , and it needs the defense of its spirit to remain valid
I shall donate my 10 as soon as i can as i understand how agrevating it can be to have others claim your hard work as their own
Please no trolls about how the GPL allows this , The gpl allows comerical software based on the license however it makes dammed sure that you release the changes and keep the code free
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I'm totally with the developer here, but look at this:
Notice, if you're paying attention, even if they comply with the GPL now, they're still in violation of my copyright.
He tries to revoke the license just for them retroactively. I don't think that is possible, is it?
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
I'll donate
but why should we have to pay for freedom?!
Nobody needs to emulate Media Access Control. CherryOS and PearPC emulate Macs.
...take a look at this. [In Internet time it's kinda old, March 16.]
You are a blatent troll.
It's about time someone raised this similarity.
Too bad you look like a troll. This really is a point that needs to be thought about by everyone who tries to justify music "sharing".
A developer trying to make something freely available needs to collect donations to get some legal team together to defend their work and keep the right to keep their name associated with THEIR work.
Perhaps they should contact these guys:
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ (previously covered on slashdot)
...will someone please post TFA?
Bingo , They are all failing to see that
The pear or the cherry?
Before you can make money on anything, the damn thing has to work. Even if you did steal it from somewhere else and rebrand it, if it won't install or run as promised when the end user gets it, how long can it survive?
Personally, I couldn't get CherryOS to work. PearPC on the other hand, did, no doubt in large part due to the docs they had available.
BUT, even after installing it and trying to get stuff set up, I found it easier (if you have the funding, say from work) to just buy a Mac mini and a KVM or app like Timbuktu.
I do think it (PearPC) is an awesome piece of work and would hope that it continues. I can't say that for CherryOS.
R(k)
PearPC
CherryOS
Mac isn't a fscking acronym unless you're talking about Media Access Control addresses.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
I hardly think an individual who may actually be exercising fair-use rights being sued is quite the same as a company marketting a product which is made from copyright infringement.
The person the music industry would have to be suing would be selling burnt CDs of Aerosmith with their own cover art at Wal-mart for these to be the same class of copyright infringement.
You must be confused - have you not read the news or something? It's the other way around.
Developers giving their free time suing company making money from their work... BAD
Mega-corporations suing young girls and dead people for millions of dollars... GOOD
So Apple has a signed contract from all of the customers who bought OS X off the shelf in a retail outlet? Unless you can provide an example of existing precedent, EULAs are still non-binding.
The reason there are no clones is because Apple won't sell OS X in a form that can be easily installed in a production environment. It would be uneconomical for a clone maker to buy boxes of OS X to get the install CDs and license documents.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Honestly, even if they are just slapping an interface on PearPC and selling it, isn't that legal?
I mean, aren't they really just charging for their GUI and packaging PearPC with it?
Isn't that within the restrictions of the GPL?
Where's PacMan when you need him?
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/18/213725 3
Perhaps this is why you had all your infomation ready?
PearPC has been a very big deal to me for a long time. What Arben and MauiX are doing is wrong. Funny thing is they had a chance to step to the plate. A commercial app based off PearPC was never out of the question. They just chose to go about it the wrong way. The community backing PearPC would have (most anyway) supported someone packaging a commercial app derived from PearPC as long as they followed the GPL it was released under. Instead this company has chosen to lie and attempt to hide the facts. It's a fight they can't win, but they are for whatever reason determined to do so.
So if you are a PearPC supporter... I would suggest lending any help you can...
and if not... then as a supporter of the GPL any help you can is needed as well.
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
So, basically, the less money you have, the less the law applies to you?
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
i dont really know why i feel so strongl yabout this situation i have followed it i just feel somethings so rotten here i am obliged to help. i have no use for pear pc but we all have a use of the gpl and protecting it. tried donating the link is down i will eventually get my donation in and i beg anyone who cares to do the same.
I Predict A Riot
And Pear wins, who gets the money? I think the people who back the case should share in the profits.
Some one setup a mirror PayPal account before I do.
The only person who is capable of killing my karma, is me, do not even try to help me.
I installed OSX on my machine... which is not an Apple branded Macintosh. It is a CoreComputing (no longer in business, not even a website anymore) machine with a GigaDesigns G4 Processor and after-market ATI RADEON 9500.
I think the only pieces of Apple hardware in the standard ATX case are the PSU and the logic board. Oh well.
When I get the $ together to get a G5, I'll turn this machine into a server, I guess. mmmm gentoo.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
When Stephen Job announced his "I-Minor" McIntosh, it caught my eye. Wanting to buy or build a small computer for my already cramped breakfast bar, I started pricing out similar hardware. The results startled me. Most of the configurations I found cost more than the humble US$499 of the "I-Minor", often much more. To match price with MAC I had to configure with a much bigger shuttle-style case.
So here's my question. What PCs are currently on the market to compete with this? When my woman asks for the "cute little I-Minor McIntosh with dotMax Tigger OS® that MAC just invented", what real computer can I buy instead?
Milli Vanilli?
who developed the "revolutionary, patent-pending ne approach to encoding video" used by their other product VX30.
"Trying" to sue?
Sue, or sue not. There is no try.
I see nothing there that is repeated in my post, and additionally, I included that URL in my post as "previous slashdot coverage".
But thanks for your concern.
P2P downloaders don't make any money off of their downloads (usually).
You know it just dawned on me that it's even more different than that statement suggests. Not only are P2P file-sharers not getting paid, they are paying their own/parent's money [in the form of equipment, time, bandwidth and electricity] in order to distribute the product of the RIAA. So in a twisted sense, they are doing the the musicians a favor. The whole reason bands sign obscene contracts with the RIAA is to get their music distributed. They know they aren't going to make much money off the CD sales, it'll come from concerts and merchandise.
While in the current legal framework I agree that downloading copywrited music against the wishes of the musicians is illegal, I think they need to realize that in a way we are doing them a favor. This is why the RIAA is so scared of P2P. They know it has the potential to take them out of the loop without significantly hurting the musicians.
Anyway, that's just something that popped into my head. I know that similar opinions have been voiced, but I've never seen it put that way.
Ender-
Nothing to see here
Since the GUI can't run without the backend, you can't say they are independants programs.
So the GPL applies.
If MXSinc gets Slashdotted - they will go broke due to bandwidth overages.
I hope you chickenfuckers /.'ing the site are actually donating, because you're preventing me from doing so.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
Don't sue them wait till they make money THEN SUE THEM!
:P Percentage or returns based on percentage of lawyer fees, and tell that guy to GO FOR THE THROAT!
Since it's a blatant copy you should be able to get 100% of profits and force them to take it off the market.
Though Evil I don't understand why they should be taking donations from nice stupid people, rather than taking the money from people who buy open source software, questionably nice stupid people.
I mean aren't lawsuits supposed to MAKE MONEY?
Let people invest in the lawsuit
One thing threatening Open Source today--piracy.
As we have already seen, the GPL is under attack from evil forces known as "pirates." These shadowy folk silently steal source code and violate the GPL, infringing on the rights of GPL authors. They are nothing more than thieves getting a free ride off the work of others, and I for one am disgusted at the idea of it. As you can see in the previous article, clearly Slashdot is also sickened by the idea of copyright infringement and piracy.
Some have even called for a lawsuit against these pirate thieves. Suing individual infringers has always been a position that Slashdot and its readership has supported, so it's only fair that the original GPL authors protect their rights and safeguard their material from being stolen in the future. I think we should all support any lawsuits against these infringers to protect the rights of GPL authors everywhere.
I appluad Slashdot and its readers for always taking a proactive stance against piracy and copyright infringement in general, and I would like to join the cause against this "source code theft." Piracy is a major threat facing OSS today.
>But why should we have to pay for freedom?!
What an utterly stunning statement!
'Freedom' should, of course, be everyone's birthright and should not have to be paid for (except with blood, sweat, toil and tears)
Unfortunately, millions of people have died (and are still dying for) freedom.
You cheapen the word 'freedom' by applying it to such a totally trivial issue.
Get out more man!
One thing threatening Open Source today--piracy.
As we have already seen, the GPL is under attack from evil forces known as "pirates." These shadowy folk silently steal source code and violate the GPL, infringing on the rights of GPL authors. They are nothing more than thieves getting a free ride off the work of others, and I for one am disgusted at the idea of it. As you can see in the previous article, clearly Slashdot is also sickened by the idea of copyright infringement and piracy.
Some have even called for a lawsuit against these pirate thieves. Suing individual infringers has always been a position that Slashdot and its readership has supported, so it's only fair that the original GPL authors protect their rights and safeguard their material from being stolen in the future. I think we should all support any lawsuits against these infringers to protect the rights of GPL authors everywhere.
I appluad Slashdot and its readers for always taking a proactive stance against piracy and copyright infringement in general, and I would like to join the cause against this "source code theft." Piracy is a major threat facing OSS today.
You are a moron. Not only that, but you use the obfuscating language of the copyright industry in a lame attempt to seize the moral high ground when there is nothing there but the law and your simplistic assumption that breaking the law is immoral.
Just because you like to call copyright infringement "piracy" or "theft" doesn't make it that. Anyone with the mental capacity of a five year old understands that calling a lampshade a hat is wrong at best and sinister at worst.
This idea that somehow that you have to pay a "content troll" every time a copy of something is made somewhere simply flies in the face of common sense. The fact of the matter is that we are born with an innate desire to share and that is what the copyright industry is up against. That and the fact that technology has erased any barriers to that sharing. I suppose you'll be screaming about people stealing when technology has erased the physical copying barrier as well?
And BTW, it's also a fine example of capitalism at its finest: The copyright industry's prices are too high and so a black market has arisen to correct that. You right wingers, who like to scream about capitalism as if it were holy writ, like to have government intervention when your holy capitalism gets to that point.
Finally, personally, I find your morals to be repugnant. It's people like you that make other people take a dim view of humanity.
People are willing to donate money to protect a GPL author, but heaven forbid they pay for anything they're pirating on Bittorrent. You guys are such hypocrites!
"Gimme that, it's mine! Gimme that, it's mine! Here's money to protect a fellow GPL author. Gimme that, it's mine! Gimme that, it's mine!"
I'll make sure to pirate John Carmack's next game because you guys say it's okay to do so.
... Pear sues Cherry over Apple emulation. Film at Eleven.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
"MAC", in all capitals, stands for Media Access Control, and is the hardware address of your Ethernet card.
"Mac" is short for "Macintosh", which is the computer made by Apple.
Call me a stickler but I believe there is just as good a reason for this convention to be enforced as there is for the difference between "KB","Kb","kb", and "kB" to be enforced. Reply if you really need me to elaborate further.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
But based on editorial positions and the upmodding of discussion articles
You state this claim every time PearPC gets mentioned on Slashdot, and I've pointed out to you at least once that it's simply untrue, with links to +5 comments that do nothing but point out the hypocrisy. Your comment is at +4 at the moment.
Stop lying about a moderation bias. There are other biases, but not when it comes to copyright infringement. You know this, but you make the claim anyway. That's what makes you a troll.
Yes, because you know for a fact that the same people who defend downloading the latest Madonna MP3 are the same ones up in arms over this.
The slashdot community is so small and uniform that there couldn't possibly be any people who the GPL should be upheld, yet admit MP3 trading is illegal if the song wasn't released under a P2P friendly license by the artists.
Everyone knows that the opinion that gets the most posts in a given story is the option of all slashdot readers. It's not like the people who feel strongly about the GPL issue are reading and posting in the GPL related stories and the P2P zealots are reading and posting in the P2P related stories.
Everyone reads and posts in all the stories, so everyone on slashdot must be and advocate of P2P yet want the GLP enforced by capital punishment.
I'm so damn close to getting a free ipod, which I'll fill entierly with CC licensed podcasts and rips of CDS I own.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
If it was closed source, they could have twiddled the code and chanted "Pear isn't done until Cherry won't run!" (They could probably still do that even with OSS. Maui X-Stream doesn't seem too technical and might miss #ifdef tags in the code.)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
We got similar advise once. One of our supposed 'distribution partners' tried to license a product of ours, under their own name.
They walked away from the deal, started selling a different product under that name, but claimed our performance numbers (this was a fire supression chemical), and even quoted our test results, for a totally dissimilar product!
One of our legal staff advised us, "It's going to be a terrible pain to sue them. Rather, continue selling your products, use the same marketing literature, and 'copy-cat' them right back. Force them to sue you, if they dare."
The PearPC community should do this to CherryOS. Create a gui, that matches CherryOS exactly.
Release it as CherryOS Plus. Even use the same name. If they have the balls to take you to court, lots of interesting things will have to be revealed in discovery.
It'll cost you the same amount in lawyer fees, but it'll cost them much more. (Easier to defend, especially in a GPL question, where discovery will reveal the code).
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
I'm sure I don't know what I'm talking about not being an attorney and all but it seems to me this is not a test of the GPL but a test of Copyright infringement. It would have been a test if CherryOS had lived up to the GPL providing the source code and then the developers of PearPC had renigged on the GPL suing CherryOS for copyright infringement. But what do I know?
History is so yesterday!
I'm certainly not an expert on GPL law, but I've always read this another way. Please let me know how wrong or right I am, 'cause I could just be reading it wrong (not a lawyer ;-)
I thought basically if you take GPL'ed code and make any changes to it your new version must be licensed under the GPL as well. However, having an application dependant on GPL'ed code doesn't mean you have to GPL your code.
Otherwise all Linux applications, drivers, and maybe even a monitor (since it ultimately depends on Linux GPL'ed code) MUST be GPL'ed. This doesn't sound correct.
What CherryOS has done is certainly dirty, but if they just took Pear's code (didn't change a thing) and put a GUI layer on top, I think they'd be fine. Now if they made changes to Pear's code, then they would have to release that (and not the GUI stuff) as GPL'ed. However, as long as they aren't modifying the GPL'ed code and just using it as a dependancy I think they are OK.
Dirty maybe, but OK as far as GPL. This may be why they need donations and the EFF hasn't jumped at the chance to litigate the case.
"reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
straight from the horses mouth
the link even includes reference to the software used for the comparison.
The test was conducted using UltraCompare, a standard tool for application comparison. The test used CherryOS 1.2 and PPC 0.4 Pre as the basis for comparison. The UltraCompare test works by running through every possible process of the application. The results show the matching number of bytes and gives a consensus on whether the core architectures of the two products are the Same, Similiar or Different. As you will see from the results below, CherryOS and PearPC are radically different products.
apparently running "diff pearPC.exe cherryOS.exe" is all you need to do.
ironically, the screenshot included on the page appears to me to be more evidence that they include similarities. something that, in the binary, is even more damning.
and no, the UltraCompare site shows no evidence that it can "[run] through every process of the application"
-- i am jack's amusing sig file
retard!
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
There is a fundamental difference, though it doesn't necessarily excuse our behavior :)
Works that are GPL'd start out free and open, and we strive to keep it that way.
Copyrighted works start out as proprietary and (sometimes) not free, and are vigorously defended.
Basically the Slashdot crowd's emotional response is not to the copyrighting involved but to the idea that "information wants to be free"... whatever that means.
-Robert
Because human beings are selfish.
Seriously. Piracy is about getting stuff for free without having to pay for it.
To justify doing this, people have created entire rationalizations in their heads. They've invented a faceless entity called the "RIAA" who does every evil thing you can imagine. I hear they even rip off artists! Though I never cite an actual, specific instance.
In reality, the RIAA has nothing to do with the contracts artists sign. The RIAA is just a lobbying group for the record labels, and artists hire entertainment lawyers to work out their contracts with the labels. And then willingly sign them.
People who have grown accustomed to downloading whatever they want for so long have decided they are freedom fighters fighting against the evil RIAA. The human beings they're ripping off--the artists--are never, ever mentioned. The reason being that it makes them realize how self-serving their behavior is. So artists are quietly pushed out of the discussion in order to bash the RIAA some more, as if that justifies violating intellectual property anyway.
Pirates are freeloaders who get bitter when the free ride is taken away. And now a lot of those same people expect everyone to follow the GPL. People have taken the concepts of free as in "speech" and free as in "beer" in the OSS world and applied it to the commercial world. Which then becomes free as in "loading."
The most succint pointing out of /.'s hypocrisy yet. :D
If Cherry OS was just an add on to a Pear PC, does that mean that all of the Cherry OS code can be legally used by Pear PC now if Pear PC wins?
Now, if the people like you, who are thinking rationally about this, weren't completely, thoroughly drowned out by posters (and more importantly, moderators) that DO leap awkwardly to the defense of anyone "caught" with IP they shouldn't have (or, shouldn't use in the way they do, anyway) to soothe their guilty downloading consciences, then I'd feel less like taking the occasional jab. But the prevailing noisemakers on slashdot actually do seem bent on propping up the whole "information wants to be free" (but only when it suits them) world view. Making a not very subtle joke about it seems the least I can do in the face of the unrelenting hypocrisy on that subject. If not hypocrisy in deed, then hypocrisy in silence. I know you know what I mean.
Incidentally, what makes you think that I'm picking on "advocates" of P2P systems? I'm not. I'm picking on people who are too cheap to pay for their entertainment, and who too often do stumble their way into only semi-related IP discussions and flail about, philosophically.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
After all, information wants to be free, does it not? And, lawyering is all about information, is it not?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
In the GPL there is a HUGE distinction between using and distributing GPL covered code.
You can use all that you want.
But if you distribute GPL code like CherryOS, here are GPL requirements that are not met by CherryOS
- you have to distribute the source of the GPL code, the full text of the GPL license, and a full acknoledgement of the authors.
- if you distribute, along with the GPL code a work that is dependant on that code, you have to distribute the whole work under the GPL terms.
These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html
More money to the developers means (hopefully) a better investment in the product. In the end, we benefit through recieving an improved product.
It doesn't matter if in one of the cases, money is being made. Both cases are intellectual property violations. The grandparent's post was illustrating how in one situation, intellectual property is okay, and in another, it's not.
This company NEEDS to get shut down. It is about time that people like them are told that GPL is no joke and just because there is no company behind the project doesn't make it right or legal to steal code. All this could have been avoided if they just realsed the source like GPL requires. They can still sell the software and there would be just as manu people buying it because there are very very few windows users that would ever compile a software from source or even know how. So it's Maui's fault. I thought there was a fund created exactly to the purpose that PearPC is collecting money? This whole thing is about a thousand times worst than MS badmouthing linux every chance they get. Wouldn't surprise me if that company's servers start to get dossed pretty soon just like SCO's did. They deserve it though. Oh yeah and ther new company that should sue then Apple for encouraging piracy and violations of the apple agreement. That'll teach them.
So what does GPL violations have to do with EFF? EFF protects our right to free speach on the internet, it has nothing to do with enforcing copyright licenses. Asking EFF to help out with this case is like asking the ACLU to help out. I donate money to both organizations, and I sure as hell don't any of them putting their resources into enforcing a copyright license since it does NOT affect any of my constitutional rights, consumer rights or personal freedoms.
I sure hope you're not donating to organization that you do not fully understand their mission statement.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
Defending individuals who donate their work to the public - good
Defending pigopolists who screw consumers, cheat artists and bribe politicians - bad
Please mod down parent post, it is a troll.
Oh, 'Lose' Not 'Loose' guy, where art thou in my time of need?
If PearPC sues CherryOS and wins, which I don't doubt they will, who gets the money?
Guess they won't be using the Chewbacca offense.
Wishing I was a millionaire since 1969.
then what about Apple computers getting into music, as forbidden in their settlement with Apple computers?
Cherry OS pretty much sucks right now--it'll probably die on the vine anyway. Save your legal fee money and make PearPC a better product.
I tried installing CherryOS on several machines--following the instructions, etc. I got kernel panics from MacOS X on all of them right out of the starting gate.
Maybe they should be called "Lemon OS" (or has Microsoft patented that one, too?)
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
The Fruit-F*cker 2000, with enhanced feed reamer and pulp ejection.
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
funny funny
because it's not that simple
of course the contract is binding. but what "getting into music" means is up to the courts to decide. is it being an artist? a label? selling it? where? in brick and mortar stores? online?
that's why Apple is being sued. and the courts will sort it out.
Copyright isn't criminal at all in the states. It's a purely civil offense, so the only redress is a suit.
Is it criminal in the UK? How does that work, someone tells the police you copied their software so they arrest you? That sounds kind of scary.
Yes this post was ment to be pointless..... they cant all be serious
"Slashdot, where telling the truth is overrated but lying is insightful."
How is this flamebait? The poster was merely refuting the points bonch raised.
Just beware when it becomes interactive (overflow)!
Your average music fan wants to play fair, but feels positively exploited by 1) the astonishing price inflation of retail chain stores such as Tower and 2) the pressure put on artists to make a catchy single, some second rate padding, and sell it as a full album. They are the basically virtuous Lochean person who is driven to commit petty crimes because of their conditions. The current P2P crisis is really just because *AA haven't kept abreast with technology and absolutely refuse to give up their massive profit margins. Nobody would mind getting Divx quality movies for $5, or even $10 a pop, and the companies might actually make a profit off of it.
For example, when I had a friend who worked for Tower Records, I bought a ton of CDs for cost + 20%, usually like $12. Now I buy few, if any, because they're damn near $20.
CherryOS's developers, or scam artists if you will, want to make a quick buck based on somebody else's product. They are Hobbesian, State-of-Nature types who will do anything to get ahead, steal anything that's not nailed down, and are in every concievable way, "nasty, brutish, and short."
And you're just the queen to toss it!
cherries, apples, pears... why even bother? my new banana project is worth 5 times as much as any old apple. oh... wait... that was the 80's.
I'm sick and fucking tired of Slashdotters going up-in-arms over GPL violations but when it comes to actual copyrights that have been around for awhile.. let the copyright holder starve!
I mean, what CherryOS is doing is wrong.. but jesus get a grip with the double standards
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
Some Americans use GPL software. I am one of them. Stop making yourself look stupid.
I'll probably get modded down for this, but... Please also consider donating to the RIAA to see their intellectual property protected.
Many p2p file sharers blatantly misuse copyrighted music repeatedly and then have the audacity to share those mp3 files with the world.
Remember, kids: it's copyright law which allows the enforcement of the GPL. It's copyright law which allows the RIAA to enforce its rights. You can't have one without the other.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
You could believe that intellectual property is purely wrong, but for pragmatic reasons, code licensed under the GPL should be protected to encourage movement to a world where all information is freely shared.
As long as you're not talking about fairness (which is purely a subjective concept), I think you can utilize laws laws that you don't believe in to your advantage without being a hypocrite. But I admit I don't have much with which to back this position up.
-------
Incite and flee.
Acutally, I am yet to hear anyone who has actually received a copy of the distribution find out there is no source (or offer to provide source) included with the distribution. GPL does not require anyone to post source online for free consumption by the general public, nor does it compel a programmer to give source to "everyone". Check the FAQs at gnu.org
I just don't get it - who is advising Maui X-Stream? Why would the company be so dumb as to do this? Complying wouldn't hurt them at all - in fact, it could help them, and save them money as well.
Consider: they could easily go the Apple route and built a proprietary GUI for Pear PC, while releasing their modified PearPC under the GPL and contributing their changes upstream to the original project. All this would require would be for them to post the source code for their modified PearPC on their site. Apple took this development approach with OS X (FreeBSD) and Safari (Konqueror). Probably as many people would buy CherryOS - no sales lost. But the PearPC developers would be pleased instead of litigious because they'd get development support from a company. And the company would be on friendly terms with the project, so they'd be able to work together to get the features they need for CherryOS implemented in the core project. Those features would be carried on in future versions of PearPC, ensuring that everyone has the same updates - in other words, it would be as if Maui X-Stream has more developers, without having to pay them. Money saved. Everyone happy.
Whoever told the PearPC folks to "speak with an Attorney" should be given his or her pink slip. The company is throwing out an opportunity to save money on development, and at the same time it is steering toward a long lawsuit they'll likely lose. Where do I sign up to be their strategic consultant? I never would have thought it, but I guess I'm qualified.
Can we donate using the Paypay on Sourceforge? With the current site being slashdotted I would like to donate using Sourceforge but I don't know if this would be the same?
Anyone know if the money will be used in the same way?
Someday mother will die and i'll say it again: the windows model of acquiring and running software from a large bunny rabbit, that i rule. Hah. Ill say it again: the windows model of acquiring and running software from a broken hourglass.
Music industry suing blatant copyright infringer - good.
I'm not sure what your lawyer was smoking but you don't cure copyright infringment by committing it yourself. You just allow the other side to remove their damages from what you would have been awarded and opened yourself up to other counterclaims and nasty defenses like "unclean hands" which could result in you being unable to pursue the case.
It's much better to take the high road and get a good lawyer. Hopefully one will be willing to do it pro-bono or at least on contingency. Their donations should be able to cover court filing fees and document duplication costs (well, I hope). Maybe the FSF or the OSDN could assist them with the GPL aspects.
all of a sudden
i cant imagine why...
this sig has been discontinued.
Is'nt this a bit old news since this site allready had this news post the 23. But i surely hope that the PearPC developers sue CherryOS since it's breaking Apple's EULA (well Apple could sue them) another thing is the fact that CherryOS most likely has stolen most of its code from PearPC acording to this article from Wired.
Bits of News Giving you the latest bits.
Note the updated text:
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
and copy the CD and sell it in a plain box saying "PearPC".
Sell it for $10 and CherryOS will *have* to sue or lose all their customers.
Oh wait, maybe we *should* care about RIAA copyrights, even if they are a$$#01es.
The best resolution of a lawsuit is for that company will admit using the source and comply with the GPL. They will continue sell the support and easy installer just like Red Hat, Novell, etc.. The open-source project will not see a dime of that money (if there is any to be made) and that's it. Better to just release a easy to install binary for free. The software is so slow at this stage that no one in their right mind going to pay for it. Five minutes making a binary will save thousands in lawyer fees.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
the fruit sues YOU!
Please also consider donating to the RIAA to see their intellectual property protected.
The RIAA seems to be doing just fine protecting their intellectual property without need of donations.
Many p2p file sharers blatantly misuse copyrighted music repeatedly and then have the audacity to share those mp3 files with the world.
The RIAA sues individual infringers, just as PearPC may sue CherryOS.
Remember, kids: it's copyright law which allows the enforcement of the GPL. It's copyright law which allows the RIAA to enforce its rights. You can't have one without the other.
There is one thing you can have without the other. It is possible to have copyrights, and licensing without having evil price fixing cartels that conspire to keep artists poor, while using their obscene profits to lobby for infinite term copyright laws, criminalizing software tools, DMCA, DRM, etc.
I think the moral, ethical and financial (as far as donations) differences between the RIAA and PearPC are night and day different.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
Give me a break. Just look at the EFF. They are against suing p2p copyright infringers, but support suing GPL copyright infringers. It's pretty clear from posts that the majority of /.ers feel the same way.
Vote for Pedro
Do F/OSS developers really want to set a precedent for stooping to the level of copyright infringers? It's much better for the image of PearPC and open source development in general if we get a lawyer to fight the clear-cut cases for us. The GPL and a lawyer should do the work here, not trickery and underhandedness.
Food Fight!
+1 Insightful, -1 Troll. What can I say, I'm an Insightful Troll.
I just dowloaded the trial edition (which has to respect the original licenses as well). I found no GPL license. No authors acknoledgement. And no offer for getting the source code. I guess the PearPC authors have tried the same thing too , don't you think ? :)
Certainly gives new meaning to the term "memory leak" and "core dump", doesn't it?
The most striking piece of this article, for me, was the comment that when a PearOS developer tried to contact someone at the offending company's offices, they were just dismissed summarily with a "go talk to an attorney" response.
In recent months I have dealt with someone who gave me two similar responses (not related to the GPL, but a bounced check). First he asked "well, since you've got my address, why don't you just come out here and arrest me?" Next in an online conversation he suggested I take his firm "I'll never honor that check" answer to the district attorney. Then, when he got the certified letter from me trying to resolve the problem without involving a court, he messaged me online inviting me to file the suit, even offering to give me a list of lawyers to consult.
I'm amazed people still bluff like this -- he says "go on, then, sue me!" ... it's a no brainer to respond "um, okay, here's the suit" (I filed suit March 1, and take him to small claims April 11).
This CherryOS thing is clear-cut. It's as much a no-brainer as a bounced check small claims case is. The people working at this company have to know this. There's no conceivable way every person at that company (particularly the legal team, if it exists :) could honestly believe they have a unique, new product. There's no conceivable way this guy I'm suing can "win" the case -- a bounced check is actionable by itself regardless of circumstance (not that there are any).
There are only three possibilities in both these instances: 1) they're hoping we won't call their bluffs by actually filing suit, 2) they actually honestly think some magic loophole will save them, or 3) they really are as stupid as they seem.
Actually, I suppose there's a fourth option: they never plan to pay a judgment when they lose. It's easy for me; sell the judgment to a collection agency for 70% of its value, move on (punitive damages will still make it worth the trouble and the cut). For PearOS, it might be harder. If they actually win a judgment, there could be an appeal process (probably will be), and by the time that's over with, even when PearOS emerges triumphant, there won't be money left in the defendant company (or it'll just file for bankruptcy) to take. Hurrah, justice is served, or something.
I don't really know how to pick the most likely outcome here except, I suppose, to just wait and see.
Read my stuff.
It doesn't matter if CherryOS is selling the GPL code or not. It is still the exact same license violation.
And since all you slashbotters like to refer to GPL license violation as theft. Here's analogy for you. Someone steals my car and uses it himself, or someone steals my car and sells it. Should we ignore the person who steals my car and uses it personally? Yes this is a bad analogy, much like calling a GPL violation theft.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
( please see my other reply for more details.) The linux kernel is GPLed and provides a standard ISO POSIX API (that means all apllications that use this standard API can be independents from this kernel since they can run on all other POSIX systems as well) As for drivers if they are not distributed along with the LInux the kernel (i.e. downloaded separately) there is no problem. And there is a "laissez faire" attitude if they are distributed with the kernel (no Linux kernel developper seems to care).
KeS
Oldest first display shows one of the usual morons got in a few seconds ahead. However, for the Second Post (and beating most of the FP twits), it's of respectable quality... regardless of any allegations of karma whoring motives.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
I had the strangest feeling that if the CherryOS people were to turn around and sue the PearPC people for copyright infringement, it'd be the SCO case all over again. Hmm. I wonder why I feel that way...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
i'm guessing this will degenerate into a flamewar over filesharing.
*glances at the comments*
sigh.
sum.zero
- if you distribute, along with the GPL code a work that is dependant on that code, you have to distribute the whole work under the GPL terms.
I have a problem with this statement, since the line you quoted specifically mentions "derived" works.
I do not believe writing a GUI for a piece of GPL'd software is writing software derived from said GPL work.
I add that the libc (C library) that is used to compile applications for Linux is licensed under the LGPL.
I agree, there's a lot of hypocrisy in this debate. I believe though I can clarify this explanation of the knee-jerk response techies have: I should have said that people think "knowledge and creativity" want to be free, not information in general. My SSN is not useful to the general public unless someone wants to "steal" my identity.
:)
Here's the premise of music swapping as I see it: I'm guessing that most Slashdotters who pirate music/warez are leechers instead of sharers - they claim they would be perfectly fine without the product and the victim loses only a potential sale; but sharing with others is allowing those who absolutely need the product get away with not buying it. Most slashdot pirates aren't trying to inflict financial damage on others, they just want something for free that they'd never pay for - but they don't wish to be complicit in helping others "steal" potential revenue. This seems to imply that there are ethical pirates and unethical ones, which I don't understand
To answer your question about personal info, I believe many Slashdotters feel that they would gladly share their own ideas, creativity and intellectual property to the broader community. But that doesn't mean they want to share their bank PIN, street address or mother's maiden name.
-Robert
Really, so you correlated the usernames of the people posting posting pro P2P with the usernames of people posting pro GPL and found they were all the same people, and that there were hundreds of them?
/.ers" because you see lots of posts in both topic areas, recognized a few names as common to both categories of discussion, and assume that the two groups overlap?
You have some statistics saying that it's the same group of people?
Or are you saying "the majority of
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I do not believe writing a GUI for a piece of GPL'd software is writing software derived from said GPL work.
Nobody said writing for a GPL product or using a GPL product is restrictive.
I said that if you distribute a GPL product, all works you distribute with it and that depends on it, must be licensed under the GPL.
Is the OS X EULA really the only thing stopping clone manufacturers? What's to stop some Taiwanese vendor from selling a cheap beige-box PowerPC with Yellow Dog Linux (or Darwin for that matter), whith a big warning: "Danger - under no circumstances should you install MacOS X!" I'm aware that Macs no longer rely on ROMs, but it seems there must be some other factor stopping potential clone makers.
Further, I think the legality of bypassing a EULA is untested (for example, using Interface Builder to swap the 'Accept' and 'Decline' buttons). At least in the United States, you do not need a license to use software, only to make copies. Section 117 of copyright laws says:
Essentially, loading the software onto a disk and into memory isn't considered infringement (even though it's technically a copy). This is why you can use GPL'd software (or any other software that you legally obtained, for that matter) without accepting the license.
Not that I'm eager to see Mac clones back on the market... it nearly killed them last time.
The elements of contract are:
- Offer
- Acceptance
- Consideration
So, if I walk into a retailer and they offer OS X under terms that I am willing to accept, and I give them the amount of money (consideration) they asked for, when we have a contract. Any additional terms or conditions that the seller wishes to assert after I've agreed to the stated terms of the sale are completely unenforceable. Suppose someone were to purchase a Chevy floormat from a dealer, then when they go to add Calvin urinating on the logo and put it in their Ford pickup, they find a GM EULA that says they can't use it that way. I can't imagine an attorney that would prosecute that one.[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
hawk
and thus violates what the market economy stands for. Apple has made sure that nobody can make a computer that can run their OS, not by technology, etc, but by making the EULA state that OSX can only be run on Apple-Labeled systems.
Even Microsoft is not so controlling in their EULA. Allowing the OS to be run in emulators, etc, as long as you paid for a copy of it.
CherryOS breaks the EULA, and might land them in trouble with Apple. Apple, apparently, can afford better lawyers than PearPC can. Yet CherryOS is not a treat to Apple yet, as it runs OSX very slow and does not give much of an advantage over an Apple-Labeled system.
What needs to be done is make an OS, or an environment for an OS that is able to use the API of Cocoa, Carbon, Aqua, and other elements of OSX. Maybe write this for Linux, so it can run OSX applications on a PowerPC platform, and run OSX under emulation on a X86 or Non-PowerPC platform. Call it WINEMAC or MACWINE or LINMAC or whatever.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
A California jury found against Toshiba, awarding $465.4 million in damages to Lexar.
You have some statistics saying that it's the same group of people?
Why does it matter? The point is that many bright, articulate, thoughtful people show up on slashdot, start reading, and immediately form a distinct impression that it's hip deep in hypocrisy in exactly the way that you're saying it's not. It doesn't even matter if it's not true: I'm talking about how readily a casual reader can form that opinion. That you're being so defensive about it indicates that you know I'm right.
So, that being said, the real question is: why is it that way? To use a somewhat clumsy analogy, it's sort of like how easy it is for a lot of people to assume that all Muslims are terrorists, or that all white guys with dogs (hey! that's me!) are biggoted rednecks. Why? Because not enough white guys with dogs say non-Rednecky things in front of the people drawing the wrong conclusions. No, we're too busy. Or, not enough live-and-let-live Muslims make it loudly (enough) plain that they're appalled at Taliban-Al-Queda-like thinking. At least, not in front of the people that would benefit from hearing it.
Meaning: would someone deeply making notes about which slashdotters do and don't think what about IP issues come to a different conclusion than someone briefly hopping in and out of IP-related threads? Probably. But the fastest way to make your point (which is also mine, however indirectly) is to step into the Infringement-For-Entertainment fray, and light those people up. Given the dull roar of witless defenses of song stealing, it's tempting just to leave it all alone and concentrate on, say, obscure GPL conflicts over operating system emulators... but that's not where the population's hearts and minds will be won on these issues. Make this subject easier for everyone by helping to deflate the notion that there are only, say, 6 slashdot users who think that music pirating is a bad thing. As long as that myth persists, other IP discussions are a perfectly good place to raise the issue, again and again.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
For what its worth, the license is not a per-copy ticket. If you redistribute the code without explicit permission of the author you are technically violating copyright law. The GPL is an affirmative defense against that charge. If you violate the GPL, it is void, and therefore not a defense; hence, you must stop distributing.
-HopeOS
In Soviet Russia The Government Flushes You!!!
So? Or... more on topic:
In Soviet Russia The Government Steals Your Code!!!
ahh forget it...
Get your Unix fortune now!
MAC makes makeup. Apple makes computers.
Stupid stupid stupid.
See here, then look for "3c90x" on this page.
I am looking over PearPC's documentation and it appears that in order that the client OS may network, PearPC emulates a virtual 3c90x ethernet card visible to the client OS, packets sent to which are available to the host operating system by way of a special network interface.
This virtual ethernet card has a MAC address, configurable from the second link above.
Therefore, PearPC is in fact a MAC emulator!
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Even though im a big Apple fan, screw them on this issue.
I bought the box, its mine.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm amazed anyone still believes this, given that it has not been true for eight years now: the No Electronic Theft act, signed into law by President Clinton in 1997, makes commercial piracy, or non-commercial piracy where the value of works pirated over a 180-day period exceeds $1000, a criminal offense, punishable by heavy fines, several years in jail, or both.
That right? Well, guess I'm putting away my eyepatch, hook, and pegleg. Aaaargh!
Browsing the CVS repository, it looks like nothing has been checked in for the last 5 months, and many things haven't been updated for upwards of 10 months.
:]
I was very excited about this project, but there's been no visible progress with it, and it's becoming a Michael Jackson/Terry Schiavo-like thing to talk about. A GPL football, if you will.
Sure, it's a good test of the GPL, which needs court cases, but this thing will never reach the courts anyway, the CherryOS people would fold up and run for the border as soon as things got real.
Maybe they should save these kinds of announcements for times when they post new versions
It's common knowledge to anyone who knows much about the business end of the recording industry how bad the contracts are that the major labels offer to new bands. (No, I'm not talking about you're average garage-band teenager who is trying to figure out how to play the latest pop-punk song of the week, but folks who actually know what happens when you sign a record contract.) Since you apparently have never seen any evidence of this, a quick Google search for "record contracts" turned up this link and this link. There's lots more evidence out there. This is just what a quick search turned up.
Both of those articles are rather lengthy, so I've quoted a few sentences from the end of the second article here:
Does that sound like a good deal to you?!
This is technically true, but you're completely missing the point. Why do you suppose that bands sign with major labels? The younger bands probably have no idea what they're getting themselves into, and the rest know that signing to a major label is their only possible chance of "making it big." Why is this, you ask? Because the major labels are the only ones with the big marketing budgets and distribution channels necessary to get your music played on Clear Channel and sold at WalMart. You have to be a big name artist with a couple of hit albums to your credit before the majors will negotiate a decent contract with you.
Do you suppose the majors see P2P as a threat to their iron grip on the distribution channel? One can only speculate. If an independent artist could get mainstream exposure through the internet, then why would they sign a major label contract? Technology is to the point now that even a $5k recording budget can yield a professional sounding album at a local studio. Even if the record industry's argument that P2P hurts records sales is legit, this does make one wonder if lost record sales are the only motive for their actions.
Ever wonder why so many independent artists support P2P? Apparently it's not hurting their record sales. If the artist makes $.56 per album who is really getting screwed by P2P?
No, only those that link with the software. If it can be demonstrated that their GUI is entirely their code, and is independent from development of PearPC, then that's fine.
But regardless of that, they still need to release the changes that they've made to the PowerPC CHRP emulation, and give proper accrediation of who wrote it (simple enough in including the source code)
The thing is that nVidia can get away with their binary X11 driver, because X11 allows them to use a binary interface, which speaks to their open-source kernel driver, which does hardly anything but provide a callback so that parts of the binary driver can run in kernel mode.
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
So how hard would it be for Cherry to get, say, me to D/L PearOS, change 1 line of code (or not), and redistribute it under the GPL myself? I have a license to redistribute Pear under GPL, and I don't think there's a clause that prevents me from distributing it to some clown that's violated the GPL before.
So I question how that clause works with the general nature of the GPL.
only those that link with the software The legal text of the GPL only uses the word independent. And never the word link. You say If it can be demonstrated that their GUI is entirely their code, and is independent from development of PearPC, then that's fine. while the GPL doen't talk about development: can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves IANAL
It's a DTD and not a computer.
It's just I/O for something else.
Input Devices:
1) The seat/bowl-opening
2) The "Flush" button (Two if you live in Europe 1.Pee 2. Shit)
Output Device
1) The waste pipe
Counter Arguements refuted:
1) "But it has storage..."
It is well known in high tech plumbing circles that the tank-resevior is Cache, not tertiary storage. This is a common misconception.
2) "It runs anti-virus"
Based on some bars recently visited, I think that the anti-virus package is a rarely used option. If not an urban myth.
Based on the above, I can only conclude that the toilet is a Data Terminal Device: Crap in - Crap out not withstanding.
1. create code dump ...Profit?
2. flush dns
3.
The more you know, the less you need. [Admin added: from me.]
Puleeeze... Writing/Playing music isn't real work. Why should they get paid for it? Aren't the chicks, cars, drugs, and trips enough for these people? Do they have to get paid for it too?
Could this be it? The case that truly tests the GPL in court? I'm not sure I've ever heard of a GPL-related case ever going to court. Does anyone know of an instance?
Assuming GPL has never been tested in court, and this goes, it might be a *good* thing (apologies to the creators of PearPC for this comment, I do sympathize with your plight, and I hope you sue the ever-loving crap out of them) because it will finally set some court precedance for the GPL.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
I originally posted material on the PearPC developer list right after CherryOS was released (including some of my own comparisons of the binaries and stuff). One hilarious thing is that CherryOS has dialogs that say they're formatting an HPFS volume (and more windows that mention the filesystem HPFS) - the funny thing is that MacOS X uses the HFS+ filesystem (OS 9 uses HFS), so right there you know that these people have no clue about the operating system they're supporting. They also claimed that the whole software app was developed by a single guy in 4 months... any person who's familiar with architecture emulators knows that a statement like that is insane - writing an entire software-based PowerPC cpu emulator, along with the hardware emulation layers all by one guy in 4 months?! That is similar to a person saying that Bill Gates wrote Windows 95 all by himself back in '95 lol.
0 0501.html
Here's my stash of comparisons; there's many other pages on other sites with info:
http://www.tliquest.net/ryan/cherryos
The in-depth article that features some of my research is here:
http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/0
-eventhorizon
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
Quite apart from the question of exactly what counts as dependency (difficult), they are pretending the code is their own. This means they have been distributing GPL stuff in binary only form without attaching a copy of the license. This alone is enough to revoke their GPL licence.
Indeed it would be easier to corner them in court on these grounds, which are clearcut. If I were a lawyer arguing this case I'd want to stay right away from the whole issue of dependency, because it is unclear.
now correct me if im wrong I have only read the GPL a couple of times, but i seem to remember it explicitly stating that you could take any open source software, repackage it and sell it as you like. Much that same as red hat or suse. The only condition is that you have to make the source code that you borrowed available, and keep your new "unattached" code seperate if you like.
Rather than sue these people why arnt we commending them for finding a potentially sucessful business model for this open software?
Google cache (hard to read)
All your Sybase are belong to us.
Someone might actually be trying to raise the general quality of comments on slashdot by (gasp!) posting well-written and well-thought out comments.
We can't have that. Burn him at the stake!
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Yes, because you know for a fact that the same people who defend downloading the latest Madonna MP3 are the same ones up in arms over this.
There is a difference between software and music. With software, it's trivial to avoid infringement: don't read anybody else's code. On the other hand, everybody is exposed to music every day, whether he or she likes it or not. In addition, the space of legally distinct melodies is so small that if you write a song, odds are that it will be similar to another song by pure coincidence. And if it happens to be similar to a song that you happen to have heard on the radio over a decade ago, you can be found liable of copyright infringement and ordered to pay damages in excess of six figures USD.
Copyrights and patents cannot be "lost" in the way you describe
But they can be lost through laches. If an owner of an exclusive right harms an alleged infringer by delaying legal action, the owner of the exclusive right may not have grounds to collect damages for infringements that occurred prior to the legal action.
Plagiarism would possibly be a violation of law even if there were no law forbidding the making and distribution of copies. It's called "reverse passing off" or "moral rights" depending on your jurisdiction.
Mac-- short for Macintosh, a product line of Apple
I guess it is the front page...
I realise I may regret asking this question, but which one of you and the manatee is nude?
(Possibly both, I guess.)
The CherryOS executables seem to be compressed, to hide plaintext symbols (security through obscurity lol). They're trying to hide their tracks. I just put 3 versions of CherryOS on my site, the third being the latest one, for comparison purposes. This is just getting insane.
Here's the site:
http://www.tliquest.net/ryan/cherryos
Go into the "app" directory
-eventhorizon
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
to all those who are interested in some serious proof, here it is and its pretty much indisputable...
4 7145
http://www.memestreams.net/users/abaddon/blogid48
If they can show that PearPC's code is being distributed, then CherryOS need to show that they have the right to do so. The GPL doesn't give them that right, because they're clearly not abiding by it. So the question is, what else gives them that right? The answer is: nothing. They don't have that right. So they're illegally copying and distributing copyright material: clear breach of copyright. (At least, that's how it appears to me, though IANAL of course.)
That's the point of the GPL -- it's constructed on top of copyright law, which is a rather solid foundation.
So a court case wouldn't directly confirm the validity of the GPL. (The defendant would still be up a certain creek even if the GPL happened to be invalid.) Still, it could certainly improve public perception of it, which would be no bad thing.
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
2005-03-30 00:00:14 PearPC Authors Need Funds To Sue CherryOS Maker (Apple,OS X) (rejected)
oh well, apparently the article *was* deemed newsworthy after all!
There have been allegations that CherryOS is nothing more than PearPC code
This is the first I've heard of it. I'm familiar with neither CherryOS nor PearPC, and so far I haven't seen a shred of evidence mentioned or even alluded to that would cause me to believe that CherryOS binaries are made of compiled PearPC code.
If the PearPC author is going to sue for that, shouldn't he have already done some homework on that front? Has anybody done any disassembly of CherryOS? It should be pretty easy to determine whether CherryOS is made of PearPC or not, but I haven't seen any indications that anyone has bothered with that most fundamental aspect of the accusation.
CherryOS's site has a binary diff which is laughably meaningless, but sadly, it's more than the PearPC guy appears to have.
Does this software actually perform? In the release notes, the previous update claims perfermance increases of 300%. Has anyone actually tested the latest release of COS to see how it compares to PPC?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to buy a copy of this ripoff, I'm just wondering if they're actually improving on the design, or if it's all just a bunch of hot air.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I myself don't have a problem with the RIAA going after people who share music illegally.
What I have a problem with is the RIAA going after people who make technology available that has legitimate uses in addition to illegal uses and insisting on DRM crap that limits how I can listen to music I paid for.
"If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." -
1) Create succesfull and interesting niche product (and asociate it with Apple, that's cool)m ydear!
2) Create a little company that will simulate stealing your code, fucking the brains of innocent Americanicans and even better - tie it with the GPL.
3) Start media campaign about how they are stealing your code, etc. Free publicity, etc.
4) Sell the "stolen" code from within the other company, small, but profit.
5) Yell "Think of the Children!^W GPL!!!" and open donations fund.
6) Collect $$$, close that other company, make everyone happy.
7) Gettoutajailfreeandwithsmallshitloadofagreentacos
What you need, people, is an Independent Copyright Holders Union (or such).
So that GPL is enforced, small proprietary companies (like Opera, TrollTech) can stand software patent suits, writers get published without slavery contracts, musicians get listened to online and paid, and finally RIAA gets squashed by competition from those (or evolves).
It's not that hard to get a legal team, a typography, a few record studios and a heap of internet servers (and maybe even a TV channel) if there are millions of people connected and donating/paying for membership.
There are organisations like that in separate areas, but they don't seem to be strong enough yet. What if they join?
Oh yeah, I'm an optimist...
WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
This is so funny.
The reason that the Mac still exists is that it has better interface and looks than Microsoft.
The reason Cherry exists is it has a better interface and looks than Pear.
Write an interface to Pear and the problem will go away 8-)
Good publicity stunt, by the way >8-(
Why are you modding my parent comment down? I am the AltiVec Developer for PearPC, I am the one collecting the donations, I am the one who's webserver was crushed by the slashdotting.
If you do not believe me, check the address that I put in my comment: krach42@gmail.com
Now, go to the pearpc-devel mailing list (hosted by sourceforge) and look for any emails sent out by krach42@gmail.com
If you keep looking hard enough, you might just see that I am, who I say I am, and not some troll who's trying to get you to donate money to PearPC, when you're actually not.
GOD! Will you Mods put the crack pipe away and actually REFERENCE some information before you act upon it?
I am unamerican, and proud of it!
I doubt that the PearPC people really need to do any karma-whoring amongst the computerati (a PowerPC emulator is a worthwhile concept in itself), but corporate PR departments should always be on the lookout for places where they can line up some good PR.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Call me a stickler but its a good idea to be aware that acronyms are unique, and one acronym can have different meaning in different contexts. Here are two examples of the meaning of MAC from a military perspective:I STORY%20UNITS%20COMMANDS%20MAC.htm
o ms/mac.html
MILITARY AIR COMMAND (MAC) - for an example see this url - http://www.mcchordairmuseum.org/REV%20B%20OUR%20H
Military Airlift Command(MAC) -
http://www.zianet.com/jpage/airforce/history/majc
I can't afford a sig!