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Windows XP on Intel Mac Confirmed
niemassacre writes "According to winxponmac.com, the contest has been won - nearly $14k to narf2006 for submitting a working solution to dual-booting Windows XP and Mac OS X on an Intel-Powered mac. A thread on osx86project.org has confirmations from several testers that the procedure works on the 17" iMac, the Mac mini, and the MacBook Pro. Many sets of pictures and videos (such as this installation video) are floating around (and mentioned in the thread). The solution itself should be posted soon." Poit! Congratulations to narf.
But does it run Linux?
Now I can dual boot a good and bad OS. (I am not saying which is which!)
Because it's there!
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Yeah this is great news! I'm a mac freak, but this makes an intel mac a great proposition as all my work stuff is Windows based!
Now all we need is for someone to make a hypervisor, or allow booting XP from within mac os without emulation, and we'll have a great system!
Does this version dual boot fully with Mac OS?
I'm sooo tempted to buy a Mac Book Pro now - my poor wallet.
Every time there's anything on this the first comments are along these lines. Fine! You don't want to play games or do any Windows devlopment - other people do! And this lets them. The end.
Remember that you gotta start somewhere. Being able to successfully natively boot the OS you want to run in a VM is the first step here...
This guy's the limit!
Three words to describe why.
Really cool cases. (Can't remember password at the moment, sorry for the anonymous Coward).
Where can I get this? I haven't found any details or downloads yet...
I'd almost be tempted to buy a MacBook Pro if this works without any issues. It'd be nice to boot into Windows for my day job and OSX for home usage. The only thing really stopping me is the lack of a right-click button under the trackpad. I'm sure somebody can/has come up with a software hack to use two fingers to right-click, but I don't know how annoying that would actually be without using it.
The real question is, how does Microsoft & Apple feel about this?
LINUX ONLINE POKER: Linux Poker
I hope everybody who dragged this guy's reputation through the mud offers him a huge apology! Maybe it's just because I'm growing older, but the older I get the more cynical I feel like people are becoming. Maybe it's always been this way and when I was a kid I either didn't notice or just shrugged it off....
and a amssive congratulation to Narf. This was an exciting contest to watch develop and definately brought out a lot of talent. Now the question in my mind is will this have any affect on the new intel-mac sales; Will people be keen to buy them because they can dual boot windows/mac os x on the same machine? Recently I bought a mac-mini (before the intel ones went live sadly) and I have to say, having used winxp for years after two weeks of my mac-mini on a KVM I'm just about ready to move over. I can't actually imagine many reasons for me wanting a PC any more. I'm not into gaming like I used to be, and mac os x is such a lovely user experience. I admit it, i'm a born again apple fan-boi! What exactly is the situation on driver support for someone booting winxp on a mac? That's what I am interested in, anyone got a clue?
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what we really need is for vmware for to produce an intel mac version of their product. Imagine being able to vm any linux distro or windows under osx...
Why?
Games.
Stuff like VMWare will do a great job of running applications, but for stuff that requires access to modern hardware, dual-booting is probably the only real answer.
I've been doing it for years on my PC, after all - serious stuff gets done in Linux, but when I want to mess around with modding Half-Life 2 then I quickly reboot into Windows XP, and instantly get 100% software compatibility. If something gave me the ability to dual-boot my new MacBook in a similar manner, then that would be great - I'd essentially have both a Mac and a PC in one shiny laptop case.
This latest news makes me happy - it's like I bought a very fast Mac, then just over two weeks later I received a very fast PC of equivalent specs for free. What is there to complain about?
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
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Because it'd let you play games (Windows) and when you're done reboot into MacOS to do your web browsing and real work. Now that they have this working I have no reason other than money not to go buy a new iMac to replace my current desktop Wintel system that I just use for gaming and light Visual Studio programming.
It seems to me that native hardware will mean that we're not far from seeing a lot of really great "not-emulation VPC-like products." This is nice, but it seems that being able to have the two up side-by side would be more useful. Wouldn't native hardware also mean that a VPC could run at nearly full speed, only taking a hit due to whatever resources were already being used by the Mac OS and applications? Still, this is a nice achievement.
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Because you're not a Mac user who lives in the Windows world. Some of us who make our money in the Windows world need to run applications that don't run on Mac... yet. I do Cognos development, and I have to provide my own notebook at work. Outside of work, I'm all Mac. Why have two notebooks when I can have my cake and eat it too? Yes, I could get a whitebox x86 notebook and run a hacked version of OSX, as the PC zealots would have it, but seeing how my PC is used for business, I'd like to stay above board. Which I can't do with an illegal version of Mac OSX running on a whitebox notebook.
Apple is happy. Now all those Windows users who want a Mac (more market share, yippee!) will buy a Mac and dual boot, yet they can still "try" to protect their OS from running a white box.
Microsoft is happy. They didn't have to spend any of their own money to get compatibility, and if they're lucky, maybe more than 30% of the dual booters will actually pay for a Windows license.
if you can run Windows on a Mac now, will game developers stop porting games to Mac, since Mac users can run Windows?
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
...a Mac that can boot OS X, XP, and Linux? Now that would be impressive.
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"transparent translation shell for OS X (like Virtual PC), supported naively in the OS"
It's called WINE. If there isn't one already I would bet good money that you will see a MacOSx version RSN.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Why? Because of the huge number of applications that are only produced for Windows -- these are small enough that the makers can't be bothered to, or don't have the expertise to, make a Mac version, yet aren't essential enough to make me go out and buy a Windows machine just to run them.
One example would be the PC interface software for my cell phone. Nice to have, but I only use it every few months to back stuff up and am not about to go buy a PC just to run it. Same story for game hacking utilities.
Congratulations to Narf. I'm anxiously awaiting booting WinXP on my Intel iMac.
What's stopping you? There are tons of people who are already booting OS X 10.5.5 on cheap commodity hardware. There's even a wiki that tells you what cheapo hardware to buy to get the best Mac experience.
Here's link to the XP on MAC video from a site which can handle a /.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nzH6OFpXgzI
I guess you've never heard of OSX Project?
me, i switched to Apple because their hardware/Darwin[linux-ppc] was interesting .. for a while .. and i felt that the fact of their survival as a 'different computing platform' company in the face of the intel x86 tyranny was a worthwhile hedge towards new hardware of interest. x86 doesn't really 'interest me', though it certainly has an equally infinite # of uses as, say, ARM or MIPS still do..
.. now i'm far more interested in just getting as many cheap, little, ecologically sound computers, than i am in having my own halon setup, and consequently: Apple is dead to me now.
.. and now XP on x86, where it already was living just fine, anyway.. on Apple hardware.
..
but of course, i used to think it was cool to have gone from a stack of Indy's to a single powerbook, and still be able to take all the 'good' software (unix) with me
why put XP on Apple?
because it proves the point: software is mobile, a liquid substance of little bounds.
and thus: hardware always comes first. all thought starts first with lines in the sand.
point 1 is maybe poignant, and geeks like poignancy perhaps, in this case, because it is proven by crossing the hijinx of one exploiter-of-the-mob computer manufacture, guilty of all its own culting, with another equally cult'ed mass-control monster, and produces a seething snake pit of sexiness. XP on bochs, and thus PPC
point 2, hardware, is what you need to tame all beasts of nefariously infinite nature.
with XP on Apple, the reason to switch is dead. XP is the wrong end of the computerized commodity curve for my liking, so.. neither of these points i'm trying to make may, indeed, have weight
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
use the coral caches. I can't believe they weren't coralised in the main post
. php?showtopic=11731c .mov
forum
http://forum.osx86project.org.nyud.net:8080/index
Video:
http://www.projectosx86.org.nyud.net:8080/winonma
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If now somebody figures out how to triple boot and add Linux then I will be able to boot a good, a bad and an ugly OS (and I'm not saying either which is which!).
ipods adapted so all audio output is in mono. Graphics on imacs converted to 16 color. Mac mouse to only have one button... oops.
I find this kind of funny and ironic...
Apple announces that they are moving to intel. OSX is DRM'd and bound to Macs so that it cannot be run on commodity hardware. Senior execs at Apple also state that they will not do anything to prevent Windows from running on their hardware.
Intel Macs come out.
Hackers get OSX86 up and running on Dells with relative ease, despite Apple's best efforts to prevent them from doing so. However, they have such a hard time getting Windows to run on a Mac that a contest is started and 13,000 dollars worth of prize money is offered.
Oh the irony. :-)
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Now that the public has done the work Bill's engineers should have done for Vista, he'll be able to sleep much better at night. /sarcasm
Are you by any chance the dude who created the Minerva mod? I see the link in your tag...... is that you?
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
It's actually called DarWINE and it's not quite at the level of maturity you see in the Linux world. Codeweavers says they're working on a version of Crossover Office for the Mac, but they haven't posted any news about it recently.
Crossover Office is pretty good on Linux. I'd rather use something like Wine (provided it worked on 100% of the stuff I need -- wishful thinking) than VMWare. Having said that, I'd rather use VMWare than dual boot.
Using the Quick Time player on Windows XP it says required compressor not available (1st time I tried it also said not available on server)... what do I need?
There are people who want climb mountains and people who want to run XP on MacIntels, and both groups do it just for 'fun'!
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
This latest news makes me happy - it's like I bought a very fast Mac, then just over two weeks later I received a very fast PC of equivalent specs for free. What is there to complain about?
The only thing to complain about is the high price of non-OEM Windows. If you want to run Windows games on your Mac, you still have to pay a few hundred dollars for Windows XP to run them on.
Wake me up when someone lets me run Windows binaries *inside* Intel OSX. That is the achievement.
Well shit is there too, but you don't step into it just because of the fact that it's possible to do it, or do you ?
May i be damned if i let m$ anywhere near a mac.
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
Now we have to put up with Mac OS XP! Where will we put the Start button?
Screw the rules, I have green hair!
Haha, I couldn't have said it any better. There seem to be a lot of Mac zealots who are so out of touch that they don't understand that there are people who actually need to run Windows between 9 and 5. Not everyone has enough desk space or cash for two computers.
That's not even factoring the mac users who want to play the latest games at full speed.
I'm thinking of writing a book about a Windows guy who disguises himself as a Mac user to see what it's like.
I call it: "Mac Like Me".
Sounds cool, huh?
Saturday is April 1. Slashdot will be shut down. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Did you really read the original (yesterday's) commentary on this? It looked like a basic peer-review process to me, albeit in true /. style. A person steps up, makes an extraordinary claim, and the community of peers does its best to suggest every possibility for falsification.
It took a while, but the truly hare-brained ideas (like a photoshopped image of a MacBook) were discredited leaving only a couple of reasonable possibilities (like a full-screen display of an XP screengrab image).
So honestly, would you really prefer that a peer-review process work from the premise that the proposal is true, as opposed to false? While the former is certainly much "nicer", the latter is more in keeping with scientific modes of thought. I'd have expected nothing less, had I presented the same claims + shaky evidence.
There's a Starman, waiting in the sky / He'd like to come and meet us, but he hasn't got the time.
OS X on commodity hardware has already been done.
But trust me, this is something a lot of people have been looking forward to, as well.
--You think you've found my weakness, but I have more.--
why would you pay all that cash for a great workstation to just take it out the box & dump XP on it....come on please let go of the mouse, take 3 steps back, now ask your self 'do i really need this esoteric box of hi-tech gadgets'
Excellent work by Narf2006 and Blanka.
I don't understand why some people are so negative about something which gives the user greater flexibility and choice. I love using OS X for my personal needs, but my job requires Windows and CounterStrike:Source requires DirectX, so it's made my MacBook Pro even more flexible and that can only be a good thing.
Whilst I can imagine that some software producers will look at the situation and say "The Mac now runs Windows so we don't need to produce a Mac native version", I think the ability to boot Windows tears down one barrier to buying a Mac...if you have to run Windows then you don't need to compromise and buy a Windows only machine.
Finally, I know you can buy a regular PC and dual-boot with a hacked copy of OS X, but it's illegal, whereas dual booting a genuine retail copy of XP on a Mac is legal and that makes it a real option for the workplace. I look forward to taking my MacBook everywhere and leaving that chunky Dell on the table...someone needs to start producing 200GB+ 2.5" 7200rpm drives fast!
$2B OR NOT $2B = $FF
Surely you can dig up an old license somewhere? Or does that not work on XP? I honestly don't know, I haven't used Windows XP at home. Still prefer 2K for my occasional windows needs.
Looking at the video at the end he shows a device manager and shows it recognizing the hard drives and obviously the input devices. My question is what about the drivers like the network card and especially apples proprietary wireless? I know at one point even linux distros did not work with the airport cards. Until someone gets all the drivers available in windows, this is still only marginally useful.
If there is anything more important than my ego around here, I want it caught and shot now.
which fashionable and trend-setting color shall the Screen of Death be?
1. The first guy to do something gets lots of points
:-)
2. Anybody who does a lot of work so I don't have to gets points
3. The definition of hard has less to do whith whether the technology looks challenging and more to do with how long it actually takes people to accomplish. This was not instantaneous with a bunch of people piling on working solutions at the same time. This guy stands alone after a significant period of time. That makes this "hard" in a defacto sense of the word and is definately worth some points.
4. I'm not a Mac user. I'm a Windows user. Of course Mac users love their OS. I don't. After supporting several Mac people and trying to make use of it myself, I've decided I actually dislike it quite a lot (no flames, please, this is just a personal preference). However, I _love_ Mac hardware. I've lusted after the clean, light notebooks and the "cheese grater" G5 desktops are shear design elegance. As a current Mac user, judging this by the fact that you wouldn't want to run Windows is missing the fundimental point that Windows users might like the option of buying great hardware from Apple. From my perspective, this is worth lots of points.
Add em all up and this guy can redeem his points for several rounds of beer should I ever meet him
TW
"May i be damned if i let m$ anywhere near a mac."
:-)
For me it's not about running Microsoft products on a Mac, it's about being able to run Quickbooks Pro 2006 for Windows so I can process client credit cards without having to boot up the PC or rely on emulation software.
Now, if Intuit could get it together at some point to make a version of Quickbooks Pro 2006 for Mac that can do everything the Windows version can do, that would be even better
The only thing to complain about is the high price of non-OEM Windows. If you want to run Windows games on your Mac, you still have to pay a few hundred dollars for Windows XP to run them on.
;-)
Or you could, y'know, buy an OEM copy...
(For that route, you still need to buy new hardware. Although a mouse is classified as an 'integral system component'. I need a new mouse anyway - this Logitech effort looks a bit manky.)
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
it's like I bought a very fast Mac, then just over two weeks later I received a very fast PC of equivalent specs for free.
Not quite free, since you have to buy a copy of XP.
Um...
You *did* pay for that copy of XP, right?
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
Dual booting is unpractical
- You have to stop everything on Mac OS (Linux, BSD, whatever) to get into Windows and vice versa.
- Data exchange between systems is horrible (common FAT32/ext2 partition? yikes!)
Being a fulltime Linux user, I know the pain. Now I have two machines sharing data over the network. That's the proper solution, unless you lack funds for a small x86 system. So, in conclusion, I don't understand what all this fuss is all about.
my 2 cents, of course.
I this, I that ... newsflash, there's more in the world than you an your opinion :) for me as developer having both is golden, and I presume for businesses that want a transition from PC to Mac without ending up with machines that can't boot their previous OS it's even more so.
Lots of people bought MacTels based on the rumour alone they will be able to run Windows on it. Let's not dissapoint them or put words in their mouths that "this is mildly interesting from a geek perspective" only.
Can someone mirror the files? Please send me an IM - aim: sud01nm
-Colin
--------- I have no signature
Windows NT was built from the beginning to run on multiple processors, it had a very advanced hardware abstraction layer built in. The other versions never sold very well and there were problems with application support (e.g. people targetting multiple processor arch's). Apple has clevery overcome this obstacle by including "Rosetta" from the start, something similar existed for NT Alpha called FX!32 but I suspect by the time it was released it was too little too late to save the OS.
I'm sure that the HAL is in place in NT derived operating systems to this day and if MS were so inclined they could do another port. However, there's no real business need (as there is for Apple with their transition) so it's never been done. They target the largest installed hardware base.
The issue with getting Windows on Macintel to work is that EFI is so fundamentally different to the traditional BIOS XP expects that you require either the source code of the OS kernel to make it work or have to, as has been done here, provide essentially a bios emulator. This is nothing to do with portability or HAL's, it's about having access to the fundamentally low-level parts of the operating system, something people outside MS don't have.
I am NaN
Why? Because the new iMac looks good, and now it's available to Windows users.
I not a fan of Mac OS. I can't find software for it (I would have to drive 100+ miles to purchase software at a store), and I'm not particularly fond of the UI. I've spent enough time on OSX to know that it still behaves a lot like older versions of Mac OS in some ways that I never liked. So, I'll stick with XP for my general-purpose PCs and Linux for my specialize stuff like file servers.
Now, my wife would love to move her PC into the living room. Problem is, she doesn't like the way it looks. She practically salivated over the new iMac ("oh pretty!") when she saw it in a copy of MacMall last month, and it will likely wind up being a gift for her some time this year since I now have the option of using XP on it.
Aside from that, this means that people who have to work in both XP and OSX can now dual boot and no longer need to have two systems to do their work.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Rather than talk about what Microsoft and Apple think, I'd love to see the marketing department at Dell today.
Moderation in All Things... Especially Moderation - gurutc
Apple would never want to support this or even make it easy. But this is a boon. Many people such as myself who wouldn't switch previously will now consider it. In fact I am certain, my next computer will be a Conroe Mac. I predict the cool machine next year will be dual booting Mac with Conroe. Reminds of the old days when hackers liked the Amigas with x86 module that could run Dos/Amiga/Mac software all at full speed.
Why this won't negatively affect SW developers view of mac sales:
The average Mac user is never going to set up a dual boot (especially given no support, difficulties involved) so this really won't impact software developer plans (ie they won't stop making Mac software). Even those who dual boot will probably prefer to have native Mac versions of software. In the end all Macs sold will be potential buyers of Mac software. That is why this is a perfect solution, no official support and difficulties make it something only those who MUST have it will do, so it will not have any significant percentage of people using a Mac, but buying Windows software for it.
Why this is better than booting OSX on a whitebox:
Booting windows on a Mac, is a legal solution. Apple has said they are not doing anything to stop it. So you can have legal OSX and legal WinXP on the mac and keep them both updated with ease. Also the Mac which has less HW support will be running on it's intended platform. Windows should have no problem running on the same hardware. Contrast running pirate/hacked OSX on the whitebox (the only way to do it) which will always be of questionable stability and a fight to upgrade without breaking it.
Way to go guys!
Think about these scenarios:
1. Switchers. People who want to give OS X a go, but they're concerned it might not run all their programs or have equivalents. Now they can buy a Mac and be sure it will work with their existing stuff while they figure out if OS X cuts it for them.
2. Gamers. The old argument of Macs "don't have any games!" may not be an issue for you or I, but for many it is. Now, if they could just reboot into Windows when they fancy some gaming, they'd be a lot more willing to get a Mac. We eagerly await some benchmarks once they've got 3D acceleration going.
3. Business Users. In the past, a PowerBook or PowerMac would be a no-no in most businesses, because it didn't run Windows. Now, there's a chance that techies can ask their bosses for a Mac without getting shot to hell.
All in all this is very good news for the proliferation of OS X, which I find to be the nicest GUI OS so far. It tends not to get in the way of doing stuff as much as other OSes (especially Windows) do.
You mean you want OSX on an Alienware computer?
What? People on commodity PCs already have 10.5.5, and I, who sweated every bloody buck for my PowerBook 17", am only allowed 10.4.5?
I demand explanations!
My other post is a First.
This frees the hardware and the software from the update cycle. It means you can keep using the Photoshop you have until you scrounge up enough dough to pay for a crossgrade (if you can find a crossgrade offer).
Everybody talks about games, but I see the thousands of dollars in software per computer in graphics, CAD and whatever also playing a role. Buying an upgrade for the platform you have is always less painful than trying to purchase all of those apps again. Then there is the issue of migrating things like Access databases to a Mac-friendlier product like FileMaker.
IIRC Macromedia was at least moving to a more agnostic state with their licenses, but if that will survive the Adobe takeover is questionable.
WINE relies on X11. While that will be acceptable for some people, it is a long way from there to a "native" Windows emulation that will be acceptable for most people. Drag-and-drop (at least as much as Windows normally supports), copy-paste, and handling windows as native objects are all issues with X11.
Does XP EULA say anything about hacking files together to get the thing to work? A lot of people are saying this is legal, but I doubt it.
Religion and politics, without the flame. godgab.org
He said PC, not "license of Windows XP".
If you have a retail license of XP, it can be transferred to the Mac. If you have an OEM copy, you have to tell MS "I just had to replace the motherboard, CPU, and RAM"
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Does a Mac exist that can actually run Vista's GUI? Being a mac man, I'm not too familiar with its requirements.
Well, 3D acceleration under VMware is on the way, according to_ d3d.html
_ d3d_enabling_vm.html
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
It's in experimental stage, but looks promising.
The following link tells how to enable it for a given guest O.S.:
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
Apple is working on this apparently. Doing some development on Wine to allow just such a thing.
I thought that story was on Slashdot a little while ago.
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
Getting OS/X on white box PCs was dead easy as the developer box was just that - a PC.
I'm impressed that it only took 3 weeks to get XP running on a MacIntel given the small number of people who have access to one.
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
When it was first posted on /. that someone claimed to do this, there were tons of people who were saying "OMG N00BS!!! IT'S OBVIOUSLY FAKE!!!" I wonder how they feel now?
You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
FlyAKiteOSX?
I'm thinking $14 grand would stand-in for an outpouring of apologies. It would for me :-)
:-D
From my point of view no amount of money could replace the satisfaction of watching somebody who questioned my honor or professionalism eat crow and offer a public apology. I'd actually pass up the $14000 if that's what it would take to keep my reputation in tact.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
So now what's to encourage companies to develop for OS X? Now that this works, won't many of them attempt to ignore OS X on the pretext that any Mac user who wants to use their software can simply boot into XP?
Wouldn't it still be necessary to have Windows driver's for your Mac graphics chipset before any heavy games would run acceptably?
well the two main identities anyway, it's gonna take a lot to quite the rabble in the background
If you can boot Windows on a Mac, you're at least not out 2 or 3 grand if you decide you don't like OSX. Apple makes some nice solid hardware that doesn't have that flimsy feel that's so prevalent in the Intel market. Even so, a lot of consumers won't even look at them because they don't want to have to give up their software. Like that copy of Photoshop they pirated in 1993. Or that copy of MS Office they pirated in 1996. Or all their antivirus software. Being able to go back to Windows would allow them to try OSX risk free. And I think that once most people try OSX for a few days, they won't want to run anything else.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Does anyone have the ISO file or other download needed to make this work on the Macbook Pro? This would be cool to see. Dan
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
According to Intel documentation, using a CSM that plugs into the EFI framework should allow for booting BIOS-based operating systems:In the words of Jim Cramer, "booyah."
Wouldn't a VM be better for this? That way you could have all the svelt of OS X without rebooting to use Windows just for those few apps.
MrRogers(2)
It's not like these are some bizarre, exotic chipsets, read Apple's own technical info pages: Mini: http://www.apple.com/macmini/ , Intel GMA950 graphics processor. iMac: http://www.apple.com/imac/ , Radeon X1600. Macs have been using standard chipsets for years now, just with firmware changes to make them big-endian compatible. Many "PC" video cards can be flashed to run on Macs quite easily, I've done 3 Radeon 8500s myself.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Why?
Games.
Does WinXP have drivers for the graphics card in the Intel Macs? That's the real question. If the graphics card isn't fully supported then it'll be difficult to play any modern game.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
That's not even factoring the mac users who want to play the latest games at full speed.
:D
Or the people who just don't like OSX
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Hey, if you're looking for good cross-platform interface software, check out http://bitpim.org/. If your phone is supported, it'll run on your mac.
You should already have them. It's just PC hardware. None of them are MAC specific chips. Intel chipsets for the base system. ATI for the graphics. Those same chips are in a standard PC version.
BIOS is the only real difference between them, and this project was the point of that.
A quadruple boot of OS X, M-Windows, Linux, and OS/2.
Again, not necessarily in that order.
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
I'm wondering how long it will be before generic laptops appear that are purposely designed to run XP, Linux and a hacked OS/X with minimal compromises.
Using compatible cpu, graphics, sound, lan etc chips would avoid performance penalties and/or hacked ktexts.
--I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Now I have two machines sharing data over the network. That's the proper solution, unless you lack funds for a small x86 system.
Why do swiss army knives sell?
Having two OS available in a single portable laptop or BYODKM-box(*) where you may not always have a network by which to connect to another machine is the point. It reduces your burden of having to carry two expensive laptops.
For an iMac, it is less compelling.
(*) by-odd-kem? be-yod-kem? by-o-dickem? beeyod-kim?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I think there are a lot of reasons this is good and interesting.
First of all it is a technical exercise that allows you to increse the possibilities of what you do with your computers. Macs, do have a very nice OS, but they also are computersee with very nice design; there are people out there running Linux con on their G3, G4, G5 processors just because they prefer it, why is it hard to imagine there could be someone who would fancy an Apple computer to run Windows for practical reasons. Even more, the guy who started the contest wants to runs Windows for work reasons, yet he would rather do it in a nice MacBook Pro.
Then, the fact that both Apple and Microsoft have stated publically that they won't offer any means to make it possible to boot Windows on the new MacIntels just makes it even more interesting. Just for the sake of proving them wrong.
Just tell them you upgraded the MB and that's good enough. They'll let you get by with that rough;y once per year (or any time a super cool new feature comes out).
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
You mean 66th post right?
Indeed, I usually just call them and play stupid, tell them it dosnt work and they fix it for me... Intalled alot of systems from the same key/license that way.
The good, the bad, the ugly, and the OH GOD MAKE IT STOP!?
(And yes, I too leave matching the categories to the OS as an exercise to the reader...)
Here's the .Torrent. http://exe64:6969/
Bye!
SeqBox
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Here's the scenario. I would like to try out Mac OS, and maybe even use it 75% of the time. However, I wouldn't buy a Mac because I would still need to use windows for the other 25%. If it was possible to run both on the same hardware, I could buy a Mac, run MacOS whenever I can, and then boot into windows for the 25% of the time that I need to run windows. Sounds a lot like how I run Linux right now. Although its close to 90% linux, 10% windows. If running Linux meant that I couldn't run windows, I probably never would have tried linux to begin with.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
You forgot FreeDOS with Windows 3.11 installed!
...than two mouse buttons, IMO. You can easily scroll through a window just by moving two fingers on the pad. Also you can easily set up the pad to accept double clicks via tapping. Simplicity and elegance.
I keep it legitimate because I'm not a big fan of piracy as anything more than a "try before you buy" for products that don't offer demos.
I've always heard that MS considers the motherboard the component to which your license is tied...upgrading the mobo is supposed to require a new purchase. Saying that you "had" to do it gets around the possibility of it coming up, they'll assume a hardware failure and won't hold that against you.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Perhaps a truly new operating system will come out of all this effort. It could be named OSWinXvista. Might be just the thing for the IT job market.
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
it comes with a KEYBOARD?!
holy shit that seals the deal!
You can get an exact comparison benchmark of Adobe Phtoshop on the same exact machine!
FreeDOS doesn't have the hooks that Windows 3.11 needs.
So, MS-DOS.
Corporate Edition hahahaha if you want an OEM newegg is pretty good.2 E16837102062
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N8
and I don't think that you have to buy another piece of hardware.
I don't really care for the Mac OS, so could I just have a minimac running windows XP and that it.
"If you like Battlestar Galactica, you're probably a huge nerd." -Stephen Colbert
CorpEd is nice, unless you're using the one(s?) MS knows are pirated.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
1. Port WinXP on Mac 2. ??? 3. Profit
Besides the fact that Macs just work....
When I bought my Powerbook over a year ago, I priced a similarly equipped windows notebook (not software, just hardware). The Windows notebook came out about $200 more, was larger, heavier, and had shorter battery life. I couldn't come up with anything closer to a Powerbook.
Granted, the Windows notebook would have been slightly faster at some tasks, but not for the ones I was looking forward to using, namely photo-editing and movie editing software. (Which have some darn good implementations on a mac included with the base OS, although photoshop is loads better, even for minor things such as red-eye correction) Finding similar software for Windows would tack on a hundred or so more to the price tag.
If you really want to argue the bottom of the pile deal, you can buy a "cheap" Mac, used or refurbished.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
surely OSX on a commodity PC is what we're all waiting for??!
This has been done. I know some guys who were at PowerPC. They shipped the first box that booted! Bottom line you may get it to work, but you will not get the Apple quality you are used to
My sigs offend the max # of people all over the world, regardless of race, religion, color, sex or creed. It's a gift.
as opposed to running Vista console-only?
No. Nobody does. Well, one guy does, but maybe if you'd read TFA you'd know that.
There are two very easy ways to get around the windows genuine software. The best one I have seen was: after a failed atemped at updating windows, go into IE and turn off the Genuine Software plugin, after that you should be able to update windows or just change a dll out. Whether it will work on a mac is a different issue.
"If you like Battlestar Galactica, you're probably a huge nerd." -Stephen Colbert
The typical person who buys a computer from Dell is not even aware of the competition to boot XP on a Mac, nor would they be very interested if they were. The typical response would be something like, "Why should I buy a Mac for $1300 to run XP, when I can get a Dell for $499 that will do the same thing, and get a free printer as well?"
The people who were monitoring the status of this contest wouldn't be caught dead buying a personal system from Dell, they roll their own and enjoy doing it.
~Philly
Where can I get this? I haven't found any details or downloads yet...
There's speculation that it'd be made into shareware for the general public, so the author can become fantastically rich.
Congratulations to narf2006 and blanka! Great Job!
f f41822abd80317ffeafc7788&act=Attach&type=post&id=1 804 (its a 1280x960 JPG image)
From the screenshots available on the osx86project.org website it seems that there's still a bit of work to be done: finding drivers!
Here's the Windows Device Manager on iMac Core Duo - http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?s=ab17121
The drivers that need to be (and most if not all will be) found are:
- ATI Radeon X1600 PCI Express video driver
- Ethernet 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit) driver
- Airport Extreme driver
- Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR driver
- iSight driver
- IR receiver driver
and possibly 4 other drivers (Bus controller, Chipset, etc.)
I don't know if sound works or not (sound devices aren't expanded in the image). I'm guessing that Firewire and USB 2.0 don't need drivers (Windows XP SP2 supports them out of the box usually)
And then the drivers will have to be found for similar devices on the other Intel Macs (MacBook Pro, Mac Mini)
Nah, plenty of people have stepped in shit before.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
It is very possible to setup a 3-boot situation seeing how Linux Beat Windows to Intel iMac.
Faith is a willingness to accept something w/o complete proof and to act on it. Reason allows you to correct that faith.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Godwin's_law
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
See Also: Quirk's Exception
Intentional invocation of this so-called "Nazi Clause" is ineffectual.
Therefore you, Sir, Fail...
Was going to be an iBook anyway, so i'm definitely waiting till the x86 iBooks hit shelves.
You like your new Mac more than you like me, don't you, Dave? Dave? I asked...She said Yes.
There is an aqua driver in the works for DarWINE. Once it is operational, it will make Windows windows look like they are native mac apps.
It'd be nice to boot into Windows for my day job and OSX for home usage.
That was the original starting point for the prize:
I told my boss that this would replace my IBM desktop and I could boot Windows XP on it. I am still confident it can be done. I am giving $100 of my own money [snip] as a prize for the person / group that can make dual-booting Mac OS X and Windows XP happen on an Intel Mac.
But the real question is how did this win the prize. Based on the video, the computer, upon booting, went directly into XP, while the requirements for the prize clearly stated:
Your method, upon starting the computer, must offer the user to boot either OS X or Windows XP
I'd prefer to think of it as a fecal coliform bacillus in the vagina.
> newsflash, there's more in the world than you an your opinion
Additional newsflash: That makes your opinion unimportant =)
j/k, continue on with the discussion, nothing to see here.
So there.
Now THAT would have been impressive.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Where's the Hitler reference? That was an Orwell reference, yo.
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I thought this was a site for geeks? What self-respecting geek doesn't have more than one computer? There's these neat things called KVM switches that allow you to share a keyboard, mouse, and monitor between multiple systems. So uh... who cares about dual booting in the age of cheap PCs?
More to the point, why would you spend large sums of money on a Mac just so you can run an OS on it that can be run on a faster PC for far less money?
maybe more than 30% of the dual booters will actually pay for a Windows license
;o)
A percent (%) character seems to have slipped in there.
Aside from a few game developers (Blizzard) most Mac game versions trail the release of the Windows version by a significant margin. This could lower sales of mac games because gamers will already own Windows versions and will be reluctant to shell out full price for an "old" game.
I have my doubts that this will effect most of the titles that make it to the mac, though it will effect some. Most of the games ported to the mac are successful quality games. Games people play and keep playing, not something you play for a month and move on. Its a huge pain in the wazoo to have to reboot to play a game of Counter Strike, etc... Mac users have already been through this, recently. When Apple transitioned to OSX gamers had to reboot into classic MacOS to run most of their games, and it was a hassle. people switched to OSX native versions as soon as they were available. In the case of Diablo2, the OSX version never ran quite as fast as the OS9 version, but even with the slight slowdown and lower stability (of D2) it was better not to have to reboot in order to play a game.
I do think it will effect the garbage titles. If the game sucks Mac gamers might buy the PC version on impulse, but there will be no reson to get the Mac version when its available. Currently, some garbage games make it to the mac. That wont last.
OEM copies are not boxed, and come with absolutely no support from Microsoft; they're also supposedly tied to the machine that they came with, although I've had no problems with that. Full Retail are boxed, come with some period of free support from Microsoft (90 days?) and are not tied to the machine.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Are you by any chance the dude who created the Minerva mod? I see the link in your tag...... is that you?
:-)
Unfortunately, yes - and since I'm frequently on business trips abroad, and thus away from my desktop PC, I'd really like the ability to do MINERVA stuff without having to lug extra hardware around too.
Also, the MacBook's considerably higher-spec than my desktop PC anyway.
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Ballmer is still making his mind up about whether to throw the chair
the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
Dammit, and me without mod points... Nice.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
no, apple could have made it easy. EFI includes something called the CSM. This is a system designed to allow legacy operating systems to boot. An EFI with this should be able to boot windows no problem.
Except Apple's version of EFI doesn't support CSM. I get what you're saying about them not wanting legacy hardware, but how hard would it be for them to include a CSM? If they thought that allowing windows to run on intel macs would have been beneficial, they would have.
As long as it's not as simple as inserting the Windows CD and grabbing a beer, do you really think that the average Windows user who wants a Mac will know how to go through this install? I think not. This 'big news' really only affects probably 5% of computer users -- the Slashdot crowd. You're not going to see "EXTRA! EXTRA! MACS CAN BOOT WINXP!" on the NYT front page tomorrow.
All those Windows users who want Macs are still going to save up and buy them.
"Wouldn't a VM be better for this?"
I'm kinda loathed to give msft $ for a VM when I can just install WindowsXP from my installer disk.
I need a new laptop anyway, so may as well go with an Intel based Mac and be able to run pretty much anything i want.
While it IS a monumental effort, and quite the success... I still think this is not as cool as it could be for two reasons:
:)
1) While running XP on a Mac is cool, and definitely can be useful for those looking for diversity in application availablity in one box, there's the question of how ALL programs run on it. I have enough problems running all my windows apps on my XP box, much less on a dual-boot system.
2) And, while getting XP to run may or may not help Mac users who want #1, the truth is that in a couple years, we're talking about Vista, not XP. Therefore, while this is a huge step, it's still a step behind. It says quite a bit about what can be achieved, and likely, if XP can boot on a Mac, then Vista will follow. But I just wonder if this is all THAT useful in the long term. It's still going to always be a game of catch up, IMHO.
Some people have access to licenses through work via MSDN licensing agreements for testing a development purposes.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Nah, DR-OpenDOS. I know that one works, if you can still find it.
Pfft, everyone knows that frog story is a debunked myth. Find a better proverb to use, or risk your argument falling flat on its face in an actual debate.
That give, I agree with you ^^
I had an Amiga. It loved to crash, and when one application died it would bring down the entire machine. Not even Windows 3.1 worked as badly (although Amiga multitasking actually worked, unlike Windows).
The Mac, with the first graphical interface in an affordable PC, was surely just as innovative as the Amiga, if not more so.
The Mac has had a two button mouse for what is it, six months now?
Admittedly, not on the portables, so I suppose you still have a point for the time being.
D
BWJones,
My wife prefers to use Macs. However, she is a physician at LDS Hospital and in order to check on her patients from home she has to use their web app. You would think that this would be great for her given her preference for Mac OS, but in fact it is not. The website uses ActiveX controls and is unusable on anything other than IE under Windows. We've actually held off on buying another Mac until there was confirmation that at least a dual booting scenario was possible. Later solutions such as VMWare and Wine will do for her needs, but for now knowing that we can do this gives us a warm fuzzy as we wait until April 1 before making our decision on what model to purchase.
Lasers Controlled Games!
Considering the fact that the Device Manager screenshot from the iMac Core Duo shows an abudance of "Unknown devices" (including the display adapter), and considering the drivers for these devices probably do not exist for Windows, I don't see people playing games anytime soon.
This is bad news for Microsoft because a lot of people have been hearing about how good OSX is, but didn't want to transfer due to legacy applications they have left on Windows and stuff.
Now they can transfer to OS/X without risk, realize that they did not really need Windows after all, and they won't buy Vista the next time around. It is a slow process, but the impact will be huge in the long run.
Getzen
Microsot is not happy. Do you really believe they dropped EFI booting from Vista because they couldn't do it? Yeah, right.
Say I want to buy a Mac to dual-boot both systems. All Macs come with OSX, so by buying my new Mac I've bought that too. I turn it on, check it out, and suddenly I see a better OS than Windows up and running right away. I get to like it and I never buy that Windows license and don't dual boot after all, happily knowing that I could do it if it ever became necessary.
If Windows didn't run on that Mac, I'd never buy that Mac in the first place and would most likely stick to the usual PC/Windows combination. In other words, Microsoft would get my money.
(That's of course assuming I were a typical non-geek user. If I were to speak for myself, I might hesitate about the hardware (Macs look awesome!) but the software would be clearly GNU/Linux.)
I know it's just a proof of concept, but surely this is putting a 600cc moped engine into a ferrari?
flamebait? me? never.....
Can I install AROS as well?
http://www.aros.org/
that way I could quintuple boot
- a dream OS
- a good OS
- a bad OS
- an ugly OS
- a dead OS
I'm not saying what OS is a dream OS.
there's the question of how ALL programs run on it.
This isn't DOS, applications don't talk directly to the hardware any more. The NT kernel doens't even allow applications to access the hardware, so as long as the drivers are there why should there be a problem?
And who cares about Vista?
I'm still running Windows 2000 and at this point I can't see any reason why I should even consider "upgrading" to XP, let alone Vista. Let's face it, XP is just 2000 with ugly window decorations and a nerfed version of Terminal Server bundled in. Since they managed to get a reasonably unified driver model with Windows 98 SE and Windows 2000, they haven't gone anywhere. Half the stuff they promised originally for XP has been taken out, and most of the rest has been back-ported to NT5 (2000/XP). Internet Explorer is playing catch-up again... apparently choking Netscape off financially only gave it a bit of breathing room.
What's left for Vista? Translucent window borders (you know, like Mac OS *used* to have and removed because it was annoying)?
now add a physical switch on the side of the box so I can switch between xp and osx without waiting for bootup --- effectively windows-alt-tabbing between operating systems --
I find it humurous that so many people have posted about the nice ability to play games on a Intel Mac using Windows, when currently there are no windows drivers for the video card. Unless there are a lot of Quake 1/2 and Doom 1/2 fans, maybe we should wait until drivers begin to surface before we put so much stock in gaming in Windows on a Mac. :)
Tis gone... served with DMCA violation thingy...
http://harrisonjordan.com/Winxponmac_0.1.zip. zip. 1.zip
http://leewilkins.com/share/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.jerrybrace.com/Winxponmac%200.1.zip
http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.apple.tempex.sk/wordpress...nmac%200.1
http://individual.utoronto.ca/kkapoor/winxponmac0
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
So you want to copy/paste and transfer things easily from Mac to PC?
0 8933_l.jpg)
Use 2 computers and Synergy. If you don't have space for 2 monitors, then get a KVM switch and use it only for the video. I have personally 6 screens linked up right now at my desk. (http://myspace-933.vo.llnwd.net/00546/33/98/5467
Why does everybody always overlook the obvious?
-@
Move all sig!
For the record, the real hero (or villian if you go that way) of this story is blanka. This hack is all him. moderators please mod this up to give credit where due.
Not to mention illegal. Not that that will stop some people.
The pursuit of absolute tolerance leads to the most rigorous and ludicrous intolerance. - REX MURPHY
Odds are very good that dual booting into WinXP on a IntelMac has been available and running in Apple since the IntelMac was first released.
Fortunately getting Windows to boot is still a hack, but I can just hear it now:
Customer: "When you will have an updated version of your software for Mac OSX Intel?"
Vendor: "We no longer support MacOS. You need to install Windows."
Customer: "But...!"
Vendor: "We no longer see any need to support MacOS. Just install Windows."
Customer: (turns in to a zombie and buys a copy of Windows).
Let's just hope this is never offically supported by Apple or Microsoft.
If this can be automated, and it sounds like it can, this can be used to get Macbooks into businesses, because it reduces the risk that an employee won't be able to use the latest middleware-client-of-the-week when they need it. The employees who get them may end up using rdesktop to a shared XP box for their timecard or purchasing, but they'll get them because they can say "if it doesn't work with Obscuresoft Collaboration Mangler I can always boot to XP".
Actually there's an extremely interesting quote from the Apple/Intel FAQ [http://www.appleintelfaq.com/ After Jobs' presentation, Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that." - 06/06/2005 [http://news.com.com/2100-7341_3-5733756-2.html%5D
Limina.Log
There was no porting involved here.
Both cases involved getting an Intel OS running on Intel hardware.
Sounds an awful lot like Darwine.... Other links: http://darwine.opendarwin.org.nyud.net:8090/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/darwine/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwine http://freshmeat.net/projects/darwine/
Did you expect a complete solution right out of the gate? Of course there is alot of unknown hardware, XP has been running on iMacs for like a week now, tops. You can't play games now, but this is clearly a step in the direction of playing games.
I think Homer Simpson could best describe how I understand your opinion:
"You tried your best, and you failed miserabley. The lesson is 'never try' "
College Humor at it's best
Wicked files (including what appears to be everything I need to perform this installation myself), thanks
Well, yeah, all the other variants except for possibly ROM-DOS will work ;)
Assuming you're using a version of DR-DOS that can get around the Win3.1 OS detection scheme. FWIW, I believe drdos.org still offers DR-DOS 7.03 for download.
. . . wait for it. . . DMCA to be misused by Apple in 3, 2, 1
You have now been sued by Apple in their nightly bid to take over the world. Troz!!
Seriously though, I wonder if Apple would consider taking action? They've already taken action against folks who run OS/X on Wintel boxes. If I were to run OS/X I'd want to run it on a whitebox PC, not an Applefied proprietary box that I can't select better hardware for.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Maybe you shouldn't look at the mac mini you tool, WoW runs very well on my MBP.
I wonder how they have the drives partitioned. I assume there are seperate partitions for windows and mac, as windows won't install on HFS+ and mac won't boot on NTFS. Can each OS access the drive of the other OS? You might as well get 2 computers to network together if you can't share documents saved in either OS.
today is spelling optional day.
That's much more interesting, IMHO.
Mac hardware is overpriced, IMO (at least, compared to building the system custom myself..)
I am the maverick of Slashdot
Now that the directions are out, it looks like it requires doing a little slipstreaming to the Windows XP CD (and apparently one that has SP2 in it already).
For those of us who work in IT, like me, and have already created a slipstreamed XP CD with the latest security updates (and storage drivers--thank god for that! no more F6 during an install), I want to know how to add the XP on Mac fixes to that already-prepared CD. Oh, and I want to know how to do that without having to go and actually figure it out myself (mostly because I don't yet have an Intel Mac of my own to play with). WINNT.SIF I can handle, but I'd rather leave TXTSETUP.SIF to someone more knowledgeable (hopefully that will work with the iastor drivers that are already inserted into my CD).
From a quick glance at the patch provided, it looks like it provides the iaStor drivers for the Windows installer to be able to access the hard drive (since the Intel Macs appear to use an Intel 945 chipset with ICH7 storage, this makes sense, since you can't exactly hit "F6" during boot to load the drivers from a floppy. It also looks like it adds a custom framebuffer driver, since the X1600 is apparently one of the few things that doesn't have working drivers yet (everything else seems to be supported by the generic Intel Chipset drivers, the generic Marvell Yukon Gig-E drivers, the generic Broadcom WiFi card drivers, etc). I guess the X1600 issue isn't an issue on the Mac Minis, since those have Intel 950 integrated graphics.
In any case, this is the greatest news I have heard in a long time. I really want to get a MacBook Pro to replace my aging Power Mac G4/500 DP and my crappy eMachines laptop, and I want to dual-boot Windows XP just so I can play games at LAN parties without having to drag my desktop system around (and run a few bits of Windows-only software). For day to day use, nothing beats Mac OS X.
wow, if I put a bullet in my mac, will it run as well as XP on my mac?
Just posted.
http://download.onmac.net/
---k--
</stupid>
Illegal? Why?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
There's a torrent to the solution at http://exe64.com:6969/ seeing as how the onmac servers seem to be down at the moment.
A lot of people use a PC at work, and most corporate seat licenses allow you to install Windows on one additional machine at home, so not everybody has to run out and buy retail Windows to be legal.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I was pretty sure that it was under active development. Hence my statement about RSN. I am sure that you will see an Aqua based WINE for OS/X in the near future. If nothing else Codeweavers will do it because it could actually make them some pretty good money. Frankly the FIRST thing I thought of when I heard that Apple was really going to the Intel chip was. Well WINE for OS/X will be coming quick now that they don't have to emulate the CPU.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I hope so, but wasn't there something about having to modify bits to get VGA working ? That sounds bad. No working video acceleration ?
I'm sure it'll be worked out soon, but it sounds like you're not going to be able to immediately play high-end games or even watch video using this system without more work. That's a bit of a problem. Like I said, it'll probably be solved soon, but still, that's a problem for the vast majority of people interested in booting their Intel Mac into Windows.
My prediction ( for what little it is worth ) is that, when it's all said in done, people will really end up using VPC-like solutions, not dual-booting Windows on their Macs. Not that it won't be done, but the benefits of the the VPC/Qume/Wine-like solutions ( since it'll be *fast* unlike VPC on PPC ) would likely outweigh the benefits of dual-booting for most users.
I've changed my motherboard three times and the re-activation has gone smoothly and automatically each time. Was I just lucky?
I know that NetBSD will run on many Macs, though not the older ones with NuBus (ie, my 7100/80). I doubt many people (if any) have tried to get Solaris running on one.
;)
I'm not sure why you'd need or want to boot either on a laptop, unless you're one of the OS developers or have a job with very special requirements. That said, I wouldn't judge anyone for trying just because it's there.
It seems that one might well be able to subvert the 'standby' or 'sleep' modes of both OS's to provide fast OS switching; hit a key to get the system to slumber (i.e. save system state) then add a 'system state swap' hack where you can switch over into the slumber mode of the other OS and reawaken.
AFAIK both OS's have both 'light standby' and sleep modes, presumably sleep involves swapping the ram out to disk and even reinitialising hardware on wake, so may just be the ticket.
If this can be made to work and tweaked for speed it would seem that you'd be able to ALT-TAB between OS's with a sub-10 second delay. That'd do for me.
Hope so!
FL
[FrLz]
Two big reasons:
1. Need to run software applications for your work that are not available on Mac OS X. There are a ton of business applications for various industries that are Windows only. You may not want to run them but you may not have a choice at your job.
2. Games. You may not have time for them, but others (such as myself) do. Sure Mac OS X has some games but they don't tend to be released right away for Mac and some genres are not well represented (i.e. MMOs where World of Warcraft is about your only choice). And no the "get a console" argument doesn't work for people who play strategy games, MMORPGs or prefer using a mouse for FPS games.
There is a third sort of weak reason:
3. Cross platform development without needing another system.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
It's not very fast, but XP works in Q / QUEMU.
Here's a pic of it running:
XP running in QEMU.
-- "It's not stalking if you're married!" My Wife.
There are numerous options other than the Microsoft VMs. I agree about it being nice to have a machine that can boot into all of the OSs though. However, in my experience, dual booting sucks because what we found is that the machine will stay in one OS 99.9% of the time and the other OS is just a waste of HDD space (as well as having to switch over to apply security updates and such). We went with having one OS per machine and just having more than one machine. It worked for us because we have multiple people needing to use machines as well. Other than that, a VM package (we use VMWare) can take care of the rest.
Well, according to my buddy Mark, with BAMBIOS you'll be able to book x86 whatever you want (os/2, solaris, xp, etc). I'd guess we'll see a release within a week or so.
"PC zealots"
;)
Woah. These exist? One of the things I actually enjoy about using Windows is the lack of platform advocacy from the users. God forbid you mention some aspect of OS X as sucking, you get an instant fight.
Disclaimer: I use and support Windows, Free BSD, Mac OS 9 and X and various flavors of Linux at my job. I feel fully qualified to point out how each of them suck in their own ways.
It's all been downhill since the Amiga died.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
the site is slashdoted, another mirror: http://www.devishlyslinky.com/winxponmac0.1.zip
Mac toys and accessories blog
here a little torrent where you can find narf2006 howto and files http://exe64.com:6969/torrent.html?info_hash=889b0 afec31c90c2ca744ce0463954017a43685a
What you'll need
----------------
1. An original XP PRO SP2 CDROM
It doesn't have to be bootable, but it should have a I386
directory on the root.
2. The xom.zip file.
3. Nero Burning ROM
4. A blank CD
5. A PC of course...
6. 20-30 minutes
"I had an Amiga. It loved to crash, and when one application died it would bring down the entire machine."
You might want to note that no personal computers of the time period had memory protection. The CPUs of the time didn't have MMUs and if they did they weren't used (as in the case of the 68030 and up series of chips on Macs and Amigas). When one application died on a Mac it would take down the entire machine. In fact this was the case on Macs until the release of OS X. In certain cases you might have been able to recover enough to shutdown the Mac safely, but in general if you were using "force quit" you were likely to have the whole computer crash.
Windows 3.1 was released in 1992, a bit later than the Amiga in 1985. I don't know if I would say it was all that much stabler than an Amiga. It really depending on what programs you were running. Well behaved Windows apps weren't too bad, but running DOS stuff under Windows was real hit or miss.
"The Mac, with the first graphical interface in an affordable PC, was surely just as innovative as the Amiga, if not more so."
I guess they were both innovative in that they stole the desktop metaphor from other developers. Mice, folders/drawers, trash cans etc. None of that was invented at Apple or Amiga.
I don't really think I'd call the Mac affordable. I went with an Amiga in 1987 because I couldn't afford a color Macintosh (the first color Mac II's were 3-5 times the cost of an Amiga). I liked to use my computer for artwork and not having color was too big a limitation. Color Macs were not common home computers in '87.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
Even though I'm not sure the Apple execs are right now. What about users, and what they want? There are many different users who may be looking at getting a Mac, but still have some need of windows. Some may get by fine with Virtual PC 8.0 (I presume), and/or VMWare, so that you can run a crucial app now and again, and cut and paste. Since it's Intel, I guess that would work pretty quick, no? Sort of like running Windows in Classic, ha, ha. For others, being able to boot in real Windows may be necessary. Well, we've got something for them, too. The real question, to me (and forgive me if I'm a tech dolt), is how about Windows games? What about Direct X support? If Macs could run Windows games natively, there's an awful lot of people who would be snappin' up those Macs right away.
That the classic 1984 ad showed a woman wearing colored clothes running into a hall of gray zombified people smashing the video of the gray evil dictator.
And this was used to sell a product that was monochrome.
The original Apple rainbow logo highlighted the fact that Apple IIs were one of the first low cost computers to do color video displays (thanks to Woz).
After Jobs moved on to NeXt with their high res monochrome screens, I often have wondered if Steve Jobs is color blind.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I think it depends on how often you try and activate with the same serial. If you changed your motherboard 3 times in one day (or maybe one week), the reactivation would likely have had problems. If you swapped MBs once a month or so, it probably wouldn't have been an issue.
I don't know exactly what the timeframe is, but it makes sense that they'd only deny you if your install was getting repeatedly re-activated within a short period of time.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Good idea. The first time somebody convinced me of that I was pretty sure they were full of crap. What license code does one use in that situation?
Tiger (the latest OSX, included with all Intel Macs) includes this functionality. Open the "Keyboard & Mouse" preferences, and click "Modifier Keys." Remap to your heart's content.
The Macintosh interface was quite a bit different from the Xerox Star's, and innovation certainly includes making a formerly unaffordable product more affordable.
In my recollection, if you had to force quit an application on the Macintosh, it would usually hang on just long enough for you to save your files. (Note that I said usually, not always).
The same was true of the same type of error in Windows. If you had other applications open you could normally save the data in them and then reboot.
In the Amiga, BANG! You lost everything, instantly because the OS gave up the ghost basically the second something went wrong. Remember the top 1/4 of the screen turning black and the "Guru Meditation" message? The machine died then.
D
I'm not your typical w4r3z d00d but this is one case where I do hope the .ISO gets distributed widely and soon. That way, the world's hackers can get started on fixing the remaining issues. In some countries this may be illegal, but I'm almost certain that it's not wrong to do. (Some countries just have bad laws, and besides, sometimes it's right to break even good laws.)
The next round of prize money should be for getting all the devices to work right and at native speeds.
Not sure what you mean here. Apple's Intel offerings' energy consumption are similar (MacBook, Mini) or quite a bit smaller (iMac) than the PowerPC versions. The MacMacs (nextgen "PowerMacs") will also be environmentally better than the current G5 towers.
No halon required, regardless.
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Just why!
You don't have to go very far to find one I'm afraid. Even on Slashdot these days. Thankfully most of them hang out in the Games section, except for the self appointed trolls.
Microsoft's USB keyboards have worked beautifully with Macs for years, and Mac drivers are available for them.
All of their keyboards with the row of special keys on top of the F-key row have been great-- my first was a beige, wired Internet Keyboard Pro, dating back to 1999 or so. The "Media" key is the CD/DVD eject key, the volume keys set system volume, "Mute" works as expected, and the "Sleep" button brings up the Mac's Restart/Sleep/Cancel/Shut Down dialog. The "Play", "Pause", "Next Track" and "Previous Track" keys control iTunes system-wide, without it being the active application. I'm currently using the Wireless Optical Desktop 2.0, and it all works the same. It also works great with my USB KVM, which is also connected to an XP machine. Even the battery life is stellar, I got about 18 months of heavy use out of the batteries that came in the box with the keyboard. (If you buy one, get the "OEM" versions NewEgg sells. Plain brown box, about $20 cheaper than retail last time I bought one.)
As a Mac sysadmin who frequently runs into roadblocks trying to get Macs to play nice in Windows networks, I despise Microsoft for all the stuff they proprietarize just to make it harder to use non-MS solutions. But I really, really like their keyboards and mice specifically because they work so well with Macs and Windows.
~Philly
Hire this guy and get him under an NDA asap! :-)
So you'd use OSX 75% and Windows 25% but won't by a Mac. So.... what would you buy?
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
I think those are called "Switchers". One taste of the forbidden fruit and you are doomed.
Sleep (Mac OS) / Standby (Windows): A low-power state in which the contents of main system memory are preserved, but power is cut to most other hardware, including the main processor. On resuming, the processor powers up, but with an empty cache, and the system is usable very quickly as if it was never powered down.
Deep Sleep (Mac OS) / Hibernate (Windows): A state in which the contents of main memory are saved to disk, as well as some configuration parameters, then the system is completely powered off. On turning the computer back on, the OS loader recognizes this saved state on disk, and reloads that image of main memory. The system then resumes as if it had woken from a normal Sleep/Standby. This takes significantly longer to 'wake' from than Sleep/Stanby, as it must load the contents of main memory from disk. This takes longer on systems with more memory, and with slower hard drives. (i.e. A 256 MB RAM system with a 15,000 RPM SCSI hard drive would wake many times faster than a 4 GB RAM system with a 5400 RPM ATA drive.)
It's Deep Sleep/Hibernate that could be subverted. If you could find a way to have the OS loader (the one that in this solution provides a simple graphical Apple or Windows logo,) be certain to load before the Deep Sleep/Hibernate loaders, and check for the Deep Sleep/Hibernate images on each OS' partition, it would be possible to switch between 'hibernating' OSes fairly simply. (Windows has an easy-to-access method for entering Hibernate mode; OS X is more difficult to force into this mode, but it is possible.)
That's actually a great idea. I'll have to see if the current solution happens to support this. (It may already work without having been specifically implemented, just due to the nature of the way Deep Sleep/Hibernate works. I know that in Windows, it's the OS bootloader that checks for the Hibernate image, so the Windows end should work just fine; I'm not sure if in Mac OS it's the OS bootloader that does it, or if the OS sets something in EFI that might actually break the article's hack...)
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
So guess what:: Download it via Emule, bearshare, bittorrent (when someone posts/seeds it onto those p2p networks.) don't pay for it, download it for free!
I would if I could buy a single computer that would do both. Up until now, it wasn't possible to buy a Mac and run windows. The 25% windows I absolutely must have, but the 75% that is Mac could also be done on windows. This is all theoretical though, I personally have no interest in Mac OS.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Explanation: Lack of coffee and typing on a damn whitebox notebook keyboard! Of course, had I been typing 10.4.5 on a Macbook Pro, I'm _sure_ I would have gotten it right the first time! (Frig, just for this post, I typed in 10.5.5 3 times before I got the version right!)
What about Linux? You guys can put it on an iPod, what about the iMac?
I'm a 2000 man.
Your friendly neighborhood BOFH should have all the info you need.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
If QEMU can be tuned up to become a workable solution, this might be a better way of running Windows on MacIntel. Insecure guest OS runs sandboxed and chrooted from the more secure (but not perfectly secure) host OS. I wonder if W2K SP4 or 98SE would run faster than XP under the same conditions...
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Forget dual-booting. Think Xen. Thats when it gets interesting...
When you can with keyboard shortcuts swap in running versions of Linux, Windows and OSX...
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I think you are blowing smoke since you provide no link to a copy of the OEM agreement with the relevent portion missing.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Getzen
Well it's always fun to try and place shit in places it doesn't belong.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Wow, in my universe we're still at 10.4.5!
c
No, not gone. DCMA thing was taken care of.
I need something like this because I use XP and am a masochist. If I can't fool around with a Mac at least once a month the pain of XP begins to dull.
And, yes I DO step in shit when I see it, if I see it right after I've had my shoes shined. That's the Window$ way!
Goody - although their site has been down the whole day (at least every time I've tried).
Looking on apple's website, it doesn't appear that you can buy osx for the new intel macs yet... at least the requirements displayed are all ppc arch's.
Hopefully I'm missing something.
"The Macintosh interface was quite a bit different from the Xerox Star's, and innovation certainly includes making a formerly unaffordable product more affordable."
Refinement sure but the metaphor was not theirs. The lawsuits have been flung back and forth over this issue through the years, from Apple vs. Microsoft, to Apple vs. GEM to Xerox vs. Apple.
I certainly never thought of Apple computers as inexpensive. The Apple II was priced out of range for my family, so we had a C64 at home. I used Apples at school and couldn't understand why they cost so much more. When I started doing design work in the late 80s I couldn't afford a Mac at home. I worked on Macs at the office and used an Amiga at home. I used to boot Mac OS on my Amiga to do design work because I couldn't afford several thousand dollars for a Mac (don't even mention doing design on a lunch box Mac screen).
Apple innovates sure, but Apple co-opts technology as well. Look at the guts of OS X for example. Or the PC components in the latest Macs.
"In my recollection, if you had to force quit an application on the Macintosh, it would usually hang on just long enough for you to save your files. (Note that I said usually, not always)."
When was the last time you used a Mac OS earlier than 10? I still deal with OS 9 machines on a daily basis and I can tell you that this is not true. It got a little better with OS 8 versus System 7 and earlier but nine times out of ten having to force quit meant you were likely to lose something. You might get the finder back and you might be able to save your data OR you might have the computer lock up during the save or shutdown potentially corrupting your data. I learned this pretty early in my career when I was forced on deadline to re-layout a magazine due to corruption caused by attempting to save out of QuarkXpress when Photoshop decided to take a dump. Save frequently and use "save as" periodically was the rule of thumb.
In Mac OS prior to OS X, the lack of guidelines for creating extensions caused all kind of problems with extension conflicts where one extension would stomp over the memory of another locking the system up. This problem often appeared as intermittent crashes and was difficult to debug. Enough of a problem that a product was sold called "Conflict Catcher" to attempt to prevent it. In Mac OS 8 they also added in extension set management to help ease troubleshooting these problems rather than the traditional, take an extension out of the system folder, reboot, see if the problem still occurs type of troubleshooting.
In regards to the Amiga, keep in mind that when the Amiga launched in 1985 it had preemptive multitasking. The Mac at that time had only "Desktop Accessories" (like the calculator and the Apple sliding puzzle) which could be run concurrently with a single application. It wasn't until System 5 that multifinder was released (1987 I believe) and not until System 7 that true cooperative multitasking was integrated into the OS. The Mac wouldn't get preemptive multitasking until the release of OS X.
You mention the Guru Meditation, but you don't remember the "Software error - task held Finish all disk activity Select CANCEL to reset/debug" request. This message sometimes allowed you to save your data before the system shit the bed. Much like the force quit on Mac. It didn't always work particularly if the application you wanted to save data from was the one that crashed (same as on any other OS).
With the release of AmigaDOS 2.0 there was some additional handling of errant applications (recoverable errors). Well behaved applications wouldn't necessarily take the system down, similar to how Mac OS and Windows 3.1 worked. As I mentioned before Windows was barely used before 3.0 and that version wasn't released until the '90s. Windows also could take advantage of protected mode in the 386 series of computers which helped prevent stability problems when running multiple programs.
If you are going to compare operating systems I think it only makes sense
Sometimes my arms bend back.
No working video acceleration?
That's a bummer for gamers, but no problem at all for TLAsoft Annoying Meeting Generator or Very Large Corporation Enterprise Email Trasher. In fact "no video acceleration" is probably a bonus from the IT department's perspective.
Virtualization is definitely a better solution, but what they have now is a palce to start.
I have no clue, since I don't have access to the entire process, just a couple snippets here and there...
I don't know what part of a running XP system you need, but in theory I don't see why you couldn't use VPC or VMware or some other virtualization tech to do it... but I have no clue....
I got a little Karma to burn, I think...
I saw at CompUSA in the Apple section a product for OSX, about $299, which allows users to run XP (2k as well?) on their OSX-based computers.
But, for $299.... Is this one motivation for people to get XP running? To bypass the high price? Could this be part of the reason Apple is not making too much noise? So they don't inadvertently spur on what is happening?
Maybe I'm missing something....
Segue ("Segway")
But, something that REALLY turned me on was a demo I saw in an Apple Store a few days ago: Garage Band demo. Goddammm, I wish that ran in Linux. Is there something like that which is OS-agnostic or available for Linux users? It would be VERY nice.
Imagine Paul Hardcastle's envy now... Instead of blowing tubes, fluttering his eyelids and shaking his hips and tapping his feet and deftly moving two arms to make up for not having 6 or 7 arms...
Anyway, the sales guy said I can get GarageBand as part of iLife. If I had only THREE OS's I could choose from, they'd be:
1. Linux-based
2. OSX-based
3. Linux-based or run through WINE, Win4Lin (which I currently do), or Cedega (if they'd even make it possible to run SmartSuite run.. Or, maybe I'm missing something)
DS
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
But virtualizing it has the hit that it's an emulation and has the overhead of the other system running behind it... hell, virtulising the SAME operating system within itself is slow as crap.
By dual booting you have ALL the resources available, which is definitely what you WANT for games
So first of all I'm dissappointed that no one here has flat out asked this question yet. How does this work? I'm not talking can you do these things easily, I'm talking how does it fake Windows into thinking EFI is a bios?
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
yeah, i know the power consumption is 'less' in the newer MacBooks
the point is, i'm no longer chasing manufacturers' speed fix. (where: "speed will fix our slow software" is the norm) i'm far more interested in optimizing the software i do have, and run, for the absolutely lowest-power computing platform i can find
for $800 i can buy one 'big' computer, and set it up with its own special spot in my life, or for half that price i can get 3 or 4 'very small' ARM-based systems, and put them all over the place
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
it's already been done months ago, look here http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/software/os/0,39024180, 39235916,00.htm. it's a little picky with the hardware, not to mention illegal, but both AMD and intel cpus have been used, and there's even hardware video acceleration with a supported video chipset.
Uhm, there's no such thing as automated porting of apps to Mac OS X. There are some things the Windows API just doesn't support (sheets is a basic one for instance). Thus, Windows-apps will never look like they're native mac apps, unless you do some actual porting.
What being able to run XP, OS X and Linux on the same hardware does is give sites flexibility. If you have a university computing lab full of desktop computers, it is now possible to have users decide which OS to boot into. Previously the administration had to decide months if not years in advance how many MS machines vs OS X machines to buy. Now you (can in theory) have one that will do both.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
But I'm currently unsure.
James P. Barrett
Now if they could just get XP to run on my X86 PC....
excellent point. MOD PARENT UP, yo! I'm convinced!
If I go into my local shop, buy a MaxOS X DVD then why exactly should I not be allowed to install I own where I like? I mean I just bought it - it's mine.
It is not the fist time. Back in the 16 bit times you could install MacOS (V.3 ??) on Atari computers. And if you owned an set of original Apple ROM there was nothing Apple could do. They whined but they could not do a thing. At least not here in Germany.
I think it's called "fair use" in the US. You own a legitemate copy and you install it (once) where you like.
Martin
All very true. I remember those times. But it is all gone now. M$ could not make big bugs with non x86 and stopped supporting anything else.
Martin
I doubt if you are going to read this, since you obviously made up your mind that I'm some kind of anti-transgender bigot (which you would find to be hilarious, if you actually knew me.)
so I'll assume you're quoting Parent from something you found on some dungeon on the Faux News website.
First of all, you're a complete idiot to make such an assumption.
Getting back to the point, the most important paper on the topic to date is probably Sex and Gender are Different by world-leading sexologist Dr. Milton Diamond.
In his paper, he acknowledges the following:
For the last several decades the term gender has come into common usage particularly as a synonym for sex. The term has proved useful in many ways although distinctions between the two words, sex and gender, when one might be more appropriate than the other, has not been firmly established.
You see what he's saying here? He feels that using the words "gender" and "sex" within the medical community the way you would like to see them used would be useful for the sake of clarity, but in real-world usage, no such distinction is commonly used.
Frankly, I think it's far more useful to speak of transgender issues using the more accurate terms "physical gender", "gender role" and "gender identity", in order to distinguish between the 1. The genital and non-genital physical characteristics of biology, excluding the brain, 2. The societal assignment of a masculine or feminine role of the individual, mostly based on appearance, and 3. The sex which the individual self-identifies himeself or herself, which is almost always based on the biological structure of the brain.
Using such terminology is not only far more specific, it does not run afoul of common lay usage of the word "gender."
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
It looks like I replied to the wrong AC. The first one was the one who brought up "FOX News" for reasons I can't really fathom, and is the idiot of the conversation.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Why? Because now we can finally talk our bosses into buying us Macs for work, instead of having to sneak in our PowerBooks! After all, the guy who started the contest did so after he convinced his boss to buy him an Intel Mac. How did he do it? He said "Oh yeah, it'll boot Windows too". (paraphrase)
I immediately removed the crappy OEM'd copy of Vista from my cheap commodity hardware and easily installed OS X 10.6.2. Seriously, OS X HouseCat is sooooo much better than Leopard. I followed the wiki and voila, almost three of the drivers worked and everything. Windows Vista is, like, sooo 2008.
From what I've read, the XP drivers for the onboard graphics call the video bios
m ware/lddm_bios.mspx
http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Drivers
The drivers expect the ATI Bios to be present in order to initialize the chip. Things like clock frequencies, memory
frequencies, power management, all the is done through the video bios. The macpro video chip only supports EFI, it has the
old BIOS completely stripped out. Thus I find it very doubtfull any video drivers work out of the box. As I see it there
are a couple of possible solutions, from easiest to hardest.
1. Flash the onboard chip with the bios from a PC version and hope to god it has the EFI support as well.
2. Have the custom bootloader load the bios from a PC version into RAM and map all BIOS calls to that.
3. Have the custom bootloader load the video EFI driver, and a thin BIOS layer that reroutes all BIOS calls into the
corresponding EFI calls.
4. Try to duplicate all the video BIOS functionality.
You can certainly do this in an NT driver, IIRC it's discouraged because the kernel has to disable interrupts, switch to v86 mode, call the bios, and then switch back. xom.efi (presumably - I've never seen the source code) handles int 13 calls to read the disk, but it can't handle the custom int 10 calls that the XP driver makes to the video bios.
Interestingly, it's not possible in Vista
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/fir
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
finally... If i get an intel mac i will definetely be installing/using this.
Bullet connects to the price of her crime.
He probably is. You did see those "Dalmatian" iMacs that came out around 2001, didn't you?