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Near-Future Fords to Feature Windows Automotive
dpbsmith writes "The Detroit Free Press reports that a Windows Automotive software suite named Sync will be featured in some cars available Spring 2007, all 2008 Ford models, and Lincoln and Mercury models later. The software does not, apparently, run the engine or do anything directly connected with transportation. It will, rather, allow the user to 'use their vehicle as a computer in key ways, such as hands-free cell phone calls or downloading music or receiving e-mail.' Bill Ford and Bill Gates were reported as saying that having high-definition screens in vehicles, speech recognition, cameras, digital calendars and navigation equipment with directions and road conditions will set car companies apart from their competitors in the future. 'There are going to be those who have it and those who don't. And even those who get it later are going to be a generation behind,' Ford said."
add an entirely new meaning to crashing your car.
I wonder what degree of "Road Rage" the BSOD's will evoke!
fp?
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
In corporatist USA, Microsoft crashes YOUR car *ducks while chairs are being thrown*
States and countries are banning using cell phones in cars left, right and centre and Microsoft, hot on the heels of the latest trends as always, decides the best place to put a PC is right on the dashboard.
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
Now we can see the world's most crash-prone OS merge with North America's most stall-prone car.
What do you expect? Its a F. O. R. D.
Are you sure you want to turn right?
Yes/No/Cancel
An unknown error has occured. Please tell Microsoft about this problem.
------
beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his mind he dreams himself your master
where are you now?
I had thought I could escape the blue screens of death at work by taking a ride in my car. I guess not. I don't find constantly having to install Windows updates and running virus scans entertaining. Please don't Zune my car!
I'm sorry, but this doesn't pass the "laugh test."
We already have drivers chatting on cell phones. Now we want them downloading music and checking their email while driving?!? Close your eyes for a minute and imagine what your favorite busy intersection is going to look like with that going on. NOT pretty, huh?
Don't get me wrong -- I (like pretty much everyone here) really like technology -- but there are already way too many distractions for even good drivers to handle. We need to either go with laws that require a low-distraction environment (no cell phones, video screens, etc) for drivers, or develop a foolproof autopilot system. And with the current state of technology, I think any "autopilot" option is basically only on the table as a scare tactic.
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
A significant portion of automotive customers want quality, as in things that need fixing as little as possible, as in "Toyota quality", not more stupid gadgets that break. Also, if I was to spend money on gadgets, I'd want to keep them with me when I change cars and not have to re-buy them. I'd also want to be able to upgrade them and sell them separately, like computer parts.
Anyone else remember that? It's a race to the bottom in a 12 MPG SUV. They better not put that in the Escape hybrid.
I don't know what other people look for in cars, but my priorities run something like this: Price (within my budget), runs well, safety, good mileage, maneuverability, bells and whistles, overall appearance. Bells and whistles aren't an edge until other priorities are met. As it is now, my next car will be another foreign model.
Those who "get it later" may wind up with software that has fewer bugs due to updates, patches, etc. This is a Microsoft OS we're talking about here. Even good MS software products require patching (usually).
Will early adopters need to pull in to the dealership to get the latest patches, I wonder?
Hope that..
- the navigation feature wont be lame and be in 3D (circa 1999 Neverlost) not 2D (circa 2006 Microsoft Streets).
- voice recognition won't be shoddy
- it won't cost mad money
Yeah, that's what I need.
:-P
A BSOD on the 405 in LA.
Is there anyone who really wants to download music with his car? I wonder if this will prove a useful feature. Is this something people will have some advantage of or more like another use of software "just because we can use it here"? It seems to me that some industries (and governments etc. for that matter) think that if something has software in it, it will be better. Of course for nerds maybe it is...
The fact that a given subsystem is not directly involved in things like braking isn't actually that reassuring.
There was a submission to the RISKS digest a while ago - I cannot recall the exact details, but the problem was that non-critical software was able to cause what was effectively a denial of service attack on the car-wide shared data bus ring, and THAT stopped the brakes from working.
If a software can affect a component or module which is necessary for a critical function, then that software *is* critial. Given the existance of for example shared data buses, pretty much everything is in fact critical.
The engineers are coming up with new ideas faster than we can assimilate them? I'm not sure I would have wanted to use that word in this context.
Shades of Microsoft-Novell: I wonder if this is just a ploy to get into automobiles and then claim trademark infringement on the transparent material surrounding the passenger compartment?
What we have here is an excellent example of why Windows is just *not* trusted for "critical systems". Even Ford is showing their lack of trust in Windows by relegating it to non-critical vehicle operations, regardless of how well it is advertised to work.
I guess embedded vehicle control systems are just too important to be trusted to Windows.
So, one "boo" for using Windows *at all*, but one "thank g-d" for avoiding it where vehicle safety is concerned.
re. cell phones, tv, and "heads-up" displays: most folks get distracted by stuff at the side of the road or conversations inside the car. Now we're adding yet more distractions. Look, let's just do it right: put a PAS (pedestrian aiming system) in the heads-up display and install "Grand Theft Auto"!
\burt
There is no such thing as bad weather - only inappropriate clothing.
Whither DashPC?
Speak truth to power.
My question, based on less-than-satisfactory experiences as a customer with both companies, is "What happens when something goes wrong?"
Will Ford say that it's not their responsibility to fix the troubles from Microsoft? Will users have to sign an EULA that says "This car comes with no warranty"?
What if people try to get repairs for the system under the warranty, and Microsoft shafts Ford on supporting their stuff, the way Microsoft has shafted everybody they've ever partnered with? Can even Microsoft hold off a lawsuit from a major carmaker?
'There are going to be those who have it and those who don't. And even those who get it later are going to be a generation behind,' Ford said.
This is such a stupid comment. Just like any system this is going to have tons of bugs for the first few months, if not years (then again, it's windows, it'd be surprising if it even comes out on the said date). Those who get it later wont be behind, they just wont have to put up with the obligatory crap that comes along with brand new technology. Besides, I seriously doubt that most of the people who will be using these cars regularly will even take advantage of half the functions available.
Considering that Ford owns a big piece of Mazda....
Zune, Zune!
IF MICROSOFT BUILT CARS.....
1. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car.
2. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason, and you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
3. Occasionally, executing a maneuver would cause your car to stop and fail and you would have to re-install the engine. For some strange reason, you would accept this too.
4. You could only have one person in the car at a time, unless you bought "Car95" or "CarNT" Group Licence. But, then you would have to buy more seats..
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was much more reliable, five times as fast, twice as easy to drive - but would only run on 10 percent of the roads.
6. The Macintosh car owners would get expensive Microsoft upgrades to their cars, which would make their cars run much slower.
7. The oil, gas and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single "general car default" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag system would say "are you sure?" before going off.
10. If you were involved in a crash, you would have no idea what happened.
11. We'd all have to switch to Microsoft (tm) Gas.
I think this is totally cool - and as "just and end-user" I don't really care if it is OSS or not. I just want it to be very easy to use.
OK, I'm confused now - wasn't Ford's problem that they we're selling too few vehicles? This sounds like a solution to the very opposite problem to me.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
The meaning of the acronym FORD will now changed from Fix Or Repair Daily to Format Or Reboot Daily
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/12/10525917 31421.html?oneclick=truestory
I can hardly wait until "I got locked in my car" becomes a standard excuse for why you're late for a meeting.
i was planning on buying a Ford 1 ton dually with the Powerstroke Diesel, this has changed my plans. i refuse to buy anything with Microsoft software in it, unless a GNU/Linux developer comes up with software to over-write the kludge Ford & MS puts in Ford's product...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Apple is working with GM to create a click wheel interface for all controls on the next generation Cadillac. (Of course, firmware upgrades will be handled through OnStar.)
In keeping with the resource hogging of Vista, Windows Automotive's System requirements:
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Now talk about a paradox.
Why on earth do you need Windoze for your car? I mean, stop and think about it. I can't think of a single function that I'd want in my vehicle that couldn't be run more efficiently and reliably by a dedicated microcontroller.
This is an example why I will never buy another Ford. Too much useless gadgetry to go wrong in them. Perhaps if Ford would spend more time improving the quality and durability of their cars instead of inventing new meaningless crap to stuff in them, then maybe their company wouldn't be perpetually in the shitter.
When all else fails, run.
It appears that your engine is on fire. What would you like to do?
A. Stop on the shoulder and reboot?
B. Drive into a pond?
C. Defragment your engine?
In my experience issues with driving while using the phone are mostly confined to women. Does anyone know of any empirical data on this?
A number of motorists failed to get to work on time today after their vehicles refused to start. CT blames the problem on a Macro$mart software upgrade gone awry and says the problem was resolved quickly and the affected motorists vehicles returned to service in the shortest possible time... Macro$mart denied it's software was to blame citing a study showing that flaws in the open source Joe language were largely to blame for instabilities in ZP.
Does my car really NEED to be the next device I have to worry about getting a virus? Symantec AntiVirus Automotive Edition anyone? Yay...
I don't relish the thought of having to bring my car in for "security upgrades" or a re-install...
MadCow
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
... at least they circled the problem, though.
What are you going to have to do to restart your car? Honk the horn, Run the wipers and open the passenger door?
having ... navigation equipment with directions and road conditions will set car companies apart from their competitors in the future.
Umm... most people here that want in-car navigation systems are already considering buying them. In Denmark there are tons of adverts for them all over the place, including a huge billboard not far from my home. If Bill Gates want to get Microsoft navigation systems as the standard, they better hurry up because they aren't innovating but just following in the others' footsteps (as usual).
I'll probably be modded down for this...
Bill Gates knows that. Cha ching. Cost analysis: one accidental death per $300,000,000 profit? Ah, that's worth it. Do it! Cha ching.
Posting anonymous for obvious reasons.
This isn't exactly on-topic but since it involves ford I'll include it anyway.
I work with a lot of subcontractors in the car industry and most of them are predicting that ford will not survive many more years. There are several reasons for this but the key ones are the massive retirement of workers, the high price for American cars and the way that ford has missed the demand for smaller fuel efficient cars. The demise of ford is predicted somewhere between four and eight years from now, depending on who you ask.
I find it somewhat unlikely myself but time will tell I guess. I'll keep an eye on any news about ford for the coming years, and hopefully I'll be able to laugh at them for being so off target.
I, for one, would love to have a usb port on my dashboard, so I could monitor my computers vitals, diagnose those annoying dashboard lights when they pop up, play mp3s, hook up a webcam to record a traffic stop, etc.
How are insurance companies going to react when microsoft is at fault for a car crash? And will they lower my premium if I install linux?
I think this is a scheme to bump up the price of the car when purchasing and then a way to stay in your wallet thereafter. Monthly residual income is something all companies want. Then just wait till something is wrong with it. The solution will be to replace it. I'll guarantee next to no troublshooting will be done since most mechanics do not have computer training or equipment. Imagine the bill to replace it.
See subject, fuck Microsoft!
but wont be bleeding because of broken windows.
No M$ products in my car thankyou.
12 years of programming in a windows environment has left me kind of bitter, or even jaded if you please.
"There are going to be those who have it and those who don't. And even those who get it later are going to be a generation behind," Ford said.
No, idiot, the ones who get it later will be a generation ahead.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Oh God! Does this mean when the car won't start or mysteriously catches a virus that causes it to blow oil we have to wait for Patch Tuesday? Doh, I have to get to work and Patch Tuesday ain't for another three weeks. Even worse . . . what if, while driving, our copies of Windows Automotive suddenly decide to verify Genuine Advantage, fail, and the steering wheel disables? That'd be a bad day. Hehe!
One more thing to go wrong in that vast rolling sea of lowest bidder parts that requires specialized tools to work on. Metric, standard, hex/allen, Torx and "tamper resistant" all in 1 car already. Just imagine what fun this will add.
I also wonder if Ford and company will treat the data the same way they treat "their" proprietary data on the ECU's and such?
This is far more important than reducing car emissions! Go Ford!
Of course it's legal. Making that illegal would be like saying it's illegal to copy music from iTunes to an iPod.
Ah you mean it's legal as long as the music you buy is DRM'd? I guess that makes sense. After all non-DRM'd music is dangerous, right?
I'll probably be modded down for this...
As a person with a moderate stutter (which gets worse while I'm driving, coincidentally), I'm getting pretty sick of everything going to speech recognition. According to the article, this system will be controlled this way as well. It's getting so I can do less and less in my environment unless I can speak fluently. Now I'm going to have to speak fluently to listen to the flippin' radio? Blech. And really, are we going to trust MS with speech recognition after this?
Besides, what's wrong with cars now? They go, the radios have knobs, and we all know how to run them. If we want to listen to music that doesn't exist on the radio, we have devices for that, too. And with many new cars now being released with jacks for mp3 players, seems to me the problems are pretty much solved. The way it works now, you can pick and choose what devices you want, install or order them, and you don't have to fight through a whole computer UI (and let's be honest, it probably won't be as intuitive as it could be) to get to the stuff you want.
And really, I hardly think the biggest problem that Ford currently has is the multimedia experience for its drivers. How about cars that run reliably first, and THEN turn your focus to how to bugger up my radio.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
I will wifi your car, install uber leet hacker software and then break into you home network. Cause I hate Microsoft and I need to rebel.
Interesting article, but the part about "...downloading music..." made me wonder - given that by some estimates, by 2011 some 73 million cars will have iPod interfaces, is this a not so subtle way for Microsoft to fend off the dominance of Apple's iPod?
A message from our sponsor
Offer me a reliable, efficent and comfortable car with simple and well thought out controls, price it affordably, and you'll get my business. I'd welcome a car with greater American made content, if it wasn't an insult to my intelligence.
This seems to repeat the problem Buick had for many years: creating pretentious cars with weirdly "innovative" dashboard controls that were nearly impossible to use. My mom had a buick in which the heat/ac lever was replaced with a thumbwheel you had to spin ten times to go from hot to cold; for feedback there was a bar graph that turned from red to blue -- useless in the dark of course. Buick once was the make your doctor drove. It wasn't a Cadillac or Packard, but it was a quality car for the upwardly mobile middle class. Stuffing new features in their cars didn't solidify the brand, it destroyed it. Buick is not a brand you associate with quality, performance or affordable luxury anymore. It's just another GM product line, and rumor is that like Oldsmobile, it is destined for the axe.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Letsee...
Cell phones.
Blackberries.
Applying Makeup
Drinking Coffee.
Wearing earbuds (iPod)
Now we're going to put in a system that someone can send/receive email on their dash?
What ever happened to Keep your eyes on the road?
Has anybody seen the website http://www.platewire.com/? It allows your to report bad drivers by location and license plate. I can't wait to see "was sending IM and swerved into my lane...." as a reason for reporting someone.
FDISK Or Reboot Daily
Rich
...for Microsoft-equipped Fords:
"Welcome to the Shoulder!"
Before passing judgment on this system, I would prefer to take a wait and see approach. It may work very well or it may bomb. Despite what people may think, Ford has an army of competent engineers and I am sure that many options were probably considered before this was decided upon. Of course Ford doesn't want this controlling critical components of the car. They have their own controls that have been well refined over the years. In my own work as a controls engineer, Windows doesn't control anything anyway. It is just used as an interface. If it BSOD's, the plant will continue running or safely shut down. Even if a Linux distro was used instead of Windows, I doubt that this approach would change. I know some people have concerns with driver distraction, but I have found that navigation systems allow me to drive with more confidence in unfamiliar cities. I can pay attention to the road without having to dig out a map while driving (which is more distracting). People tend to panic when they feel that they have become lost in unfamiliar surroundings and this can cause them to make unwise decisions. Of course, a navigation system is just a tool (and a new one at that) and should not replace the sound judgment of the driver (although the judgment of some drivers on the Tri-State at 5:00 p.m. on a weekday is questionable).
I wonder how long it will take for some Linux people to figure it all out and get linux on it? Personally I'd love to have WiFi and Skype in my car, although I certainly wouldn't pay an extra 10k extra for it. They have MP3 players that can do more than that for less!
Wonder if someone will make a car ubuntu. :P
OFFTOPIC: I have ad.doubleclick.net mapped to 127.0.0.1 in my hosts file and when I click on comment links on Slashdot, they never load. Iceweasel (firefox did this, too) status bar just says:
Transferring data from ad.doubleclick.net.
I'm not going to change my hosts file. Does anyone here have a workaround?
...and they spin it like they're a generation ahead.
And even those who get it later are going to be a generation behind
News flash, guys. Toyota/Lexus has had a similar system for years.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
a new owner will have to obtain a new license in order to drive the car if he buys it used?
The system can update itself while you are driving without you turning off and back on your car. Even better, I hope if the navigation system updates, you don't have to go back home and start over.
In the future news:
Detroit - The first windows based automotive crashed when the driver refused to update the system, filling the windshield with several pop-ups and finally automatically restarting the engine for the commuting driver in the expressway.
in your future!
sulli
RTFJ.
Are there any states that _do_ allow drivers to watch TV while they drive? It seems like this really is a slippery slope situation where the LCD screen is morphing into a massive distraction. It will be awfully difficult to qualify, quantify and therefore legislate how much is too much.
Oh how I'm gonna hate stalling out waiting for my Automatic Update to download.
It's not safe to have a pc in the car. I know this from personal experience.
First let me detail what I had. I installed a pc in a car a couple of years ago for a technical writing class (had to document the research, the installation, a user manual, etc). It had GPS and map software, internet connection via cellphone, custom touchscreen interface, mp3 library, and DVD player. Using an OBD-II connection, it also monitored the automotive systems and tracked speed, rpm, intake and exhaust temperatures and pressures, gas usage, and other information. It also scanned and identified the cause of any check engine warnings.
All in all, a pretty nice system that took me the better part of a year to build. I wrote the software that integrated all the components into an interface easy to use with a touchscreen. I also wrote my own OBD-II software (supplied software is NOT touchscreen friendly). Of course, I also did the physical install myself.
Ok, so how was it unsafe? I crashed. Stupidly so. I was following a friend to his house late at night on empty streets. I figured it was safe to mess with the music controls. My friend decided to take a different route home and turns earlier than I was expecting. As I was engaged with the music controls and not my driving, I smashed right into him.
We weren't hurt badly, but his car was eventually totalled. It came out after the repairs. That was enough to convince me that PC + CAR = BAD IDEA.
Cars already have computers that follow industry standards (OBD-II) and they are responsible for monitoring and controlling all car systems. These systems are predominantly ASIC (application specific integrated circuits), sometimes with upgradeable firmware and are modern equivalents of a distributor.
You also have OBC (on-board computer) that has nothing to do with controlling car operations, it is modern equivalent of a car radio. Frequently OBC is capable of showing you some car metrics, like your fuel consumption or let you know if there is a problem detected with check engine light or more detailed equivalent.
Typically if your OBC is malfunctioning your car is still operational, but now there is a trend for luxury cars to allow you change parameters, like suspension stiffness or shifting points, through OBC. Depending on particular car and way OBC fails it can disable your car but in most situations your car computer will assume default settings in case of an OBC failure.
As to 'download' from TFA - it will be tightly controlled functionality, similarly to On-Star, and nothing more than another scheme to lock you into DRM-ed 'content distribution' system, only now with your car instead of your cellphone or MP3 player.
Until we get autonomous vehicles that can take us from A to B without a driving having to pay attention, can we stop surrounding the driver with every means under the sun to not be paying attention.
I think you meant MSGOATSE (MicroSoft Genuine Operations Analyst Technical Systems Engineer).
The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race. - Don Marquis (1878-1937)
Why would anybody want to buy a first-generation Microsoft Auto-PC from a company that might not be in business at ALL, in a few years?
Clearly, this is part of Mulally's "turn-around" strategy at Ford, but what is in this for Microsoft? They could partner with any auto manufacturer, and choosing Ford, which is in serious trouble these days, just doesn't make sense, unless Ford rolled over in the negotiations. Deal-wize, I figure Microsoft knows what it's doing...I just don't think Ford will have the vision and marketshare to make this thing work.
Ford will be producing fewer models in the next few years, which most likely means they will be selling fewer cars, total. Unless they really come up with some radical new auto designs (not something Ford has a history of...they're still reinventing the Mustang, for example), start prodcuing cars with exeptional mileage, hybrids, etc., I just don't see this as being a big selling point for Ford cars, or for Microsoft Auto-PCs.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=214254&cid=174 10076
There is a big difference in occasional use of GPS software and a full car computer you're using to connect to the internet, play music or video, make phone calls with, and even track car performance.
All software going into a Ford vehicle has to comply to a "Processors and Software" specification document which requires that there be no nested interrupts, all interrupts must be polled (for noise considerations), no dynamic memory be used, no pointers, no c++, worst case timing analysis performed, etc.
This "Sync" software will be no exception.
We were much more rigorous and deeply embedded there than where I work now in the aerospace/defense industry.
Assuming that putting all of that stuff in the car is a good idea, why use Windows? Most of the megabytes of Windows are for the graphical interface stuff which is exactly what is unimportant in an automobile where a few large buttons are the only visual and tactile interface that's possible. Also, when the automakers climb into bed with Windows, they're getting into bed with the Windows brand name which, frankly, doesn't seem to be a selling point for anything mission critical like a car. Finally, for Microsoft Windows, three years is a long time while for a car, after three years it's just starting to get worn in. Wouldn't Linux be a MUCH better choice to use to build auto user functionality?
It bothers me... Why would ford strike a deal with MS? I mean, MS would just flog the old windows kernel... If you're designing cars, you know exactly what hardware is in it. A team of programmers could knock up a working operating system in a couple of weeks because they don't have to account for changes in hardware. MS will take months piecing together scraps of old source code from Windows ME into some kind of incoherent hybrid... And it will be more expensive! Who here thinks bill gates is threatening Ford with a patent infringement case?
Ford Screen of Death - how do you like to drive with an intensely blue dashboard you can't kill other than with the ignition switch?
I like the idea, please implement as laughing at BMW drivers alone is getting boring..
-b.
And people said Ford didn't have a chance.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
C'mon guys, people are going to do this stuff whether we like it or not. The automotive manufacturers are arguably helping reduce the accident counts by making the various contributory technologies less distractive, such as by building in hands-free calling.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
This is an idea that won't die, and the car companies (Ford, GM, Daimler Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, etc) have a long history of talking to the big computer companies (IBM and now Microsoft) when they explore it. If Ford went to Gates, its because he regards Gates as a premier expert. If he focused on Windows, its simply because its widely used and has a logo that will go nicely on the windows of your car. Hobbyists have been tricking out their cars with computers for years, and the DVD players that are hanging in the car of every family who takes a trip with a five year old are already turning into Video Game stations.
The good news is that, when cars start arriving in volume that have computers built in, there will quickly be:
None of this is intended to discount the very real problems associated with actually using such a computer while you are driving, but if something is going to happen eventually, better to seriously consider its implications, if only because there may be profit in doing so.
Davis http://davis.foulger.net
But integrated audio systems as used by a lot of companies require you to go through several steps whilst looking at an LCD to even change the radio station (as opposed to just turning a given knob). These seem to add distraction, not reduce it.
-b.
These are supposedly the higher-end marques. With fatter profit margins.
I can't imagine wanting to shell out extra money for a Lincoln, but there are still plenty of people who do. You'd think that the last thing Ford would want to do is to send them a message that they are sucking hind tit. Is Ford trying to get rid of them?
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
At least the bluetooth hands free part. You can't easily ban something if you can't see it.
Ford is foundering. Toyota is likely going to move into the #2 U.S. automaker spot, again, this month (December). Ford can't seem to figure out what people want when it comes to making a car; so now they're trying to "innovate" by putting Windows in the car.
The typical consumer would probably prefer across-the-board iPod (and/or MP3) docks for their cars, but Ford's giving them Windows Genuine Advantage(TM). I'm guessing Bill Ford bought his grandkids Zunes for Christmas.
Hey, that brings up a new point - how is this car-based Windows going to check in with Microsoft to make sure it's Genuine(TM)?
#DeleteChrome
... to pull them out of their slump! ;-)
If the electric locks on my mondeo are on the blink, then I can still manually open the drivers side door from outside with the key.
However, I can't open the door from the inside, the double locking stops me (double locking means even if a thief smashes the window, the door won't open from the inside). So no, the only way out is if the window still work, switch the car on, open the window, switch the car off, reach out and open from the outside.
"This is the kind of thing that should be covered by basic auto safety laws."
It is, on old Volkswagons there is an auto unlock that unlocks the doors in the event of a crash. Thieves found out that it would open the doors even if the car was turned off, they would hit the front with a hammer, the car would unlock the doors and they would steal it. Complex systems often have unwanted side effects, even if Windows Automotive group think they have thought of everything, I won't be buying it.
The automotive manufacturers are arguably helping reduce the accident counts by making the various contributory technologies less distractive, such as by building in hands-free calling.
My phone already has hands-free calling (I just say the persons' name, and it dials), and a speakerphone, as well as playing mp3s and playing and recording videos, and can communicate with car stereos via bluetooth.
This is just one more reason NOT to buy a Ford (not that there haven't been a gazillion reasons already ... lousy fuel economy, poor model selection, the real risk of it going bankrupt ...)
You'll have to activate it within 30 days, and selling the car to someone else will mean the new owner has to purchase a new license. Also, When you take delivery, you'll have to agree to a 16 page EULA.
Why do we need this in a car?
As if I needed a good reason to look for something else.
Fire Millen!
The people that post jokes about how this will take chrashes to the next level and stuff like that seem to forget that we're talking about Ford. It's not like Windows is going to be the weak point anyway.
About the only computerized function that I would welcome in my car: continuous, real-time display of mileage as I drive. Hybrids already have these, but that's preaching to the converted. Studies (reported elsewhere on /.) have shown that eliminating "aggressive" driving could reduce our gasoline consumption by 20%, overnight and with no new technology. Of course, we ignore the other gauge we already have (the speedometer)...
Why can't I just use my portable DVD player and cell phone for the same thing? Plus, I can take them out of the car and use them other places too! Building expensive entertainment centres/computers in vehicles seems a bit pointless when you consider that you could just make such a thing portable so you can use it everywhere. Plus you'll want to take it out when you leave your vehicle anyway in case it gets stolen, like those removable face plates on radios and such. Seems like this will only catch on with people that buy ridiculously expensive vehicles anyway. The article mentions keeping up with the Jones', and these people are the only ones who probably care about doing that.
Twinstiq, game news
"The software does not, apparently, run the engine or do anything directly connected with transportation."
Whew, that's a relief!
:wq
That would certainly influence my decision to buy (positively)
What I would DEARLY love is for the automotive makers to produce some new standards of their own.
I do NOT appreciate having bulky great cigarette lighter adapters hanging out all over the place (nice little variable voltage adapters would be a lot simpler).
Bluetooth is great for making stuff talk to each other, but farting around getting Bluetooth to connect to my GPS, my PDA and my phone is a fiddle (and the radio is still playing away when the phone rings).
Right - the more I think about it I think I just want mini-USB sockets on every single surface allowing me to charge everything and provide (data) connections between all my stuff - $50 flash based linux system could do this, but if MS want to beat them to it, then fine my me.
Oh - and one final thing. WTF do I have to have vent/sucker mounts for all my GPS and phone stuff? Could Ford please develop some little sockets that I can just click stuff to?
Any one else feel reminded of that Public Enemy classic?
Cars are for driving and living rooms are for watching TV.
Drivers are already bad enough, they dont need yet another distraction out on the road.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
and fight every day for my right to run Linux. Now Windows comes back in my car. I suppose I'll have to build my own car now to keep Bill Gates out of it.
When I get to be 89 and need an artificial heart and I see them about to stick it in my chest and it has a Windows logo, I suppose that's when I'll finally snap and just start choking people.
Hugely marked up in dash Pimp My Ride electronics will go a long way to distract buyers from the crappy quality of the underlying car, I guess. But I just don't see the F-150 market as the Pimp My Ride audience.
Do they think that high school students and urban wannabes can save Ford?
At least the Start button will finally make a lot more sense.
this gives a new meaning to the term wardriving
There's too much electronics in cars already, greatly increasing the chances of a fire in the event of a crash. The last thing we need is Windows in a car.
Does this mean you will need to buy a new license for each driver or the car will think you are a pirate?
I don't want something that slices and dices and washes my clothes, and, oh, by the way, it might get me to work, too. Quit adding boatloads of crap to cars! Well, okay, add the crap, just make it optional, 'cuz I don't want it.
-Rich
I've owned one Ford. It was a Contour and had all sorts of bells and whistles. It was very unreliable, many things broke. It was a totally bad experience. My last two cars have been Toyota Corollas, very dependable, not as many gadgets but they had (have) all the ones that matter. Excellent experience with both. I used to be a windows user then switched to OSX because of the rock solid unix underpinnings and reliability. Quite happy with that decision. The thought of a Microsoft/Ford monstrosity won't be in my purchasing plans ever. As an aside. I recently had an Alpine CD player with Ipod interation, good grief thats distracting enough. I couldn't imagine fussing with a windowsish device while driving. It's a bad idea. Why can't American auto makers give us a car that just works, why can't they get that? No they have to do something like install Windows in the car to make it even more unreliable and user hostile.
everyone has heard the "if microsoft made cars" joke.
will these cars have to drive on special microsoft roads and such.
I just want to know if the windshields will be that pretty blue color most of us are so familiar with.
They're using their grammar skills there.
MS jokes aside, as a Ford employee, it's frustrating to see management keep grasping at new "technology" to fix the company's problems. Whether it be "Sync", or the latest CAD package, or the latest collaboration package, or the latest "e-something" package, management spends money on tech like a drunken sailor (not to offend drunken sailors). Focus on product and executing the basics people need is the key first step Ford needs to implement NOW. Pushing 10,000 people out the door next February and then buying "Sync" is not going to help the company or it's customers. /rant
And lets not forget that besides built in cell phones, we will now have people checking and sending emails while they are driving! Doesn't anybody at Ford think of driver safety anymore?
[crash]
There goes the neighbourhood! (again)
That depends on the implentation. Personally, I'd love to have a computer running iTunes in my car -- all I'd have to do is set it to "party shuffle" and hit "next track" every once in a while.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Full computer would be a bit of overkill. Why not just include a USB port on the radio allowing you to plug in an external HDD in a 2.5" case or a flash stick. It should be able to read MP3s in addition to higher quality formats (up to and including uncompressed wave files).
-b.
The automotive manufacturers are arguably helping reduce the accident counts by making the various contributory technologies less distractive, such as by building in hands-free calling.
Well, maybe, but several of the studies of the effect of phones while driving (including that big one at Harvard that got so much publicity last year) said that hands-free phones were just as dangerous as hand-held phones. It seems that it's the act of using the phone that's dangerous, not holding it in your hand.
This has been downplayed or outright ignored, possibly because if people believe that hands-free phones are safer, they'll pay for the extra gadgetry. The push for hand-free phones is thus a marketing campaign that has nothing to do with safety.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
It seems that most of the things they mention can be done on the phone of any person who is interested in this capablility. The display might be different... but pumping my phone output to a screen, where I can bring my phone to my next car with me, seems like a much better idea than a completely integrated system.
I am not sure how they believe that this is forward looking. It seems to me that the Bills missed the boat by a few years.
OK picture this: Step 1 push button on remote...unlock door, step 2 insert key...turn key...car starts, step 3 listen for the delightful tune that is played through your car stereo while M$ Window$ is booting up. Ummm, I am sorry that is just funny to me. Now I am not against computers in cars but really (in my opinion alot of people already can not drive well, so lets add some more complex gadgets that many do not know how to use and add that to the mix of many not knowing how to drive, and well....Geico gets rich, go figure. :) Get ready for the blue screen of death coming to a dashboard near you. If we are going to have an OS and computer in our cars....would it not be a good idea to at least have Linux running on it?
Geek, audiophile, and gearhead all rolled into one....whoda thunk it
I can agree, with one exception - when you're driving a stick-shift ... then its really handy to be able to put someone on the speaker-phone so you can use both hands to drive.
Unfortunately, most people "think" they're above-average drivers, just like most people "think" they're above-average intelligence. The obvious truth is that most people are average drivers, just like most are only of average intelligence.
Talk about mixing junk with junk... the domestic automakers have enough problems with the crap cars they make (all the while trumpeting their product under the American flag as MADE IN THE USA)... but now they want to team up with a buggy OS producer.
Wake me when it's April 2nd!
Even in existing cars, firmly built-in electronics makes no sense: it's usually overpriced and often obsolete by the time the car ships.
What cars should provide is connectors for antennas and power (cigarette lighter, USB, and FireWire). The car might transmit some odometry and sensor information via Bluetooth, as well as support the Bluetooth hands-free and audio profiles using a built-in amplifier and speakers. Maybe it should also provide some mount points for electronics. That's it.
What Ford/Microsoft are doing is bundling and tying. I think in this case it's going to backfire. I won't buy a car with that shit preinstalled.
That's the guarantee I'm looking for.
I've never seen a ford without windows!
Not sure what to make of that? Ford *workers* know not to trust their own lives to Windows?
But this really isn't all that surprising; this is the same Ford that knowingly sold fatally flawed Broncos because they knew it was cheaper to fight and lose the odd law suit than recall / redesign the flawed model.
To Ford, the public's life is cheap!
it's not the use of hands that makes talking on the phone dangerous while driving, it's the distraction of the conversation itself.
numerous studies have shown that there is little or no difference between using a hands-free and a non-hands-free phone. diverting your attention from the road and the drivers & pedestrians around you is dangerous.
the last thing the world needs is yet more distraction opportunities for drivers - and what is it with people, anyway, can't they go 5 minutes without immersing themselves in consuming AV product?
I wonder if there will be a way to reboot the software when it hangs? Maybe a big reboot button next to the emergency flashers or on the steering wheel next to the cruise control. Maybe, the car will DING, DING, DING and a message will display under your speedometer informing you to perform service. And will the services provided be updated like current WIndows software. I can picture me going down Interstate 40 at 90MPH reading /. and getting my fill of youtube and myspace when a call Microsoft to activate your services popup appears.
However, on the safe side the quote below makes me think that an executive has driven a ford lately and uses Windows on their desktop.
"The software does not, apparently, run the engine or do anything directly connected with transportation."
Or you could just break down and get an ipod.
iTunes in a car?
Usb custom integrated into the dash (or center console, or driver side A-Pillar)?
Been there, done that.
These days, if you wanted to, you could use off-the-shelf components and get a working system. iTunes if you like, or even better packages.
You'd be AMAZED at what you can have if you're willing to cut up your interior and do a little fabrication.
http://www.mp3car.com/
C'mon over, and check out the forums. We're a friendly bunch, with plenty of expertise.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
If this is the best Ford has got, not wonder they are tanking. I can see powerpoint briefs instead of manuals, having to reformat your stereo and of course being lost when the required (expensive) upgrade to the nav system refuses to read your old route files. Come on Ford, why not bring back a big of reliability, build quality and mileage instead of wasting your R&D on this nonsense. Given your presence in the EU and their attitude toward Microsoft, do you really publicizing this relationship is wise?
I've actually seen a Mac Mini mounted in the DIN slot in a car's dashboard with a small LCD monitor hinged over the CD slot and a keypad controlling it. Apparently, by design or not, the Mac Mini is perfectly sized for this application. And it uses a laptop HDD which just so happens to be pretty vibration resistant.
-b.
The Toyota Prius has a very nice automotive computing system with high def screen, speech recognition, bluetooth phone access, and a zillion other features. No Redmond involvement at all...
You know, I'd love to do that -- in fact, I've even got a spare Epia I could use for it. However, you mentioned the problem:
Since the car isn't tecnically mine (it's my parent's), I can't do that.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Yes, they're going to continue to do stuff like this, because as a society we've given the green light; we don't care. This woman had been driving in a completely irresponsible way, and didn't get any kind of serious penalty until she'd killed someone, and even they what'd she get? A fine.
Until society treats doing idiotic driving actions like this in exactly the same way as it would if you were walking down the street yakking on a phone and waving a loaded shotgun around (IE: criminal negligence while handling a lethal weapon) people will continue to do this. When we start to see people get their license pulled for 6 months and a few thousand dollar fine for continually wandering out of their lanes while talking on a phone, then maybe people will start to change their behavior.
Until then, one of your most likely ways to die is at the hands of a moron behind the wheel doing something besides paying attention to the road. Enjoy.
Ford + Windows?
Why Not Titanic + LZ 129 Hindenburg ?
They could build a Pure Hydrogen Gas powered glass cruise ship that would 1st: Explode and 2nd: Sink.
The Model T = was a great idea.
Tune it up a bit - nicer shocks, nicer seats, antilock breaks, California EPA engine, airbags -
still Fords best idea, it just needs improvement.
Look how successful the 'New' VW Bug turn out - lots of sales, strictly because they love the car.
A 'New' Ford Model T - Up to date for the 2010 market - fuel cells, water powered, whatever - just do it.
I have an iPod. The trouble is that iPods don't have party shuffle, and that there's no reasonably-priced way to interface it with the car stereo -- those FM transmitters don't work (I have one that I'm going to return), and my car doesn't have a casette deck.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
A Biologist once said there was no more 'natural large predators' of Homo sapiens,
I pointed out that automobiles killed 60,000+ people annually in the USA -
with many more maimed and injured.
Additionally, smoking, alcohol, and drugs wipe out a bunch more.
So For kiddies playing with loaded firearms, or teens smashing up their momma's car while downloading the
latest sexy music video by Beyonce, well - that is just Natural Selection in operation.
Car makers putting DVD players for the Driver or full blown computer systems should be held responsible for building something that stupid.
Sad but True.
Will the human race evolve to better handle multitasking and lightening fast reaction times while driving?
Only time will tell...
By the way...
Guns save more lives in the USA Every Day/ it might be hard for you to imagine living someplace where that is needed, but in the USA it is the truth. Ban guns - crime goes up. Criminals have Plenty of firepower, and no - they don't care about laws to begin with. Banning guns drastically increases robberies and breaking and entering. Sitting ducks - helpless sheep, food for the drug addicts to prey upon. The most effective deterrent to crime in the USA is concealed carry laws and defend yourself where you stand laws. The combination means that a criminal would be facing potentially heavily armed victims, and all the victims have the legal right to protect themselves by any means needed, at almost any location. Real gun control is hitting your target in tight, uniform patterns.
The 1st amendment was to protect freedom, the 2nd amendment was to protect the first.
(ps the parent is a troll, not 'insightful' - it is not based upon fact. Cars kill more people than guns, toss smoking and drinking into the mix and you got a lot of accidental death! You are safer driving through parts of Baghdad than some urban intersections in the USA!)
For that, er, synching feeling.
I always thought it was "Fix Or Repair Daily", but I guess it's now "Fix Of Reboot Daily"?
I posted this story to /. a couple days back and now I see it appearing as submitted by cmdrtaco. Is this common? This is the 2nd time I have submitted a story only to see it show up as being submitted by one of /.'s staffers. The last time, it took over a month before the story made it onto slashdot..this time was much quicker.
...quicker, easier, more seductive the darkside is...but more powerful, it is not.
More to the point, I own a Windstar and a Taurus, both because of their safety. I can already look back on the days when I didn't expect my Fords to crash, but I knew that I'd be safe if they did.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
Engineer 1: Did you hear the latest pitch from marketing?
Engineer 2: What with all the layoffs and early retirements and all, JOB1 is now all about trying to save the company.
Engineer 1: That makes sense. How does that affect us?
Engineer 2: Well, the general idea was that we needed to innovate, go all out, hold nothing back, and add in anything and everything that could possibly give our vehicles an advantage.
Engineer 1: Really? Those were their EXACT WORDS?
Engineer 2: Not quite - more like we needed to throw in the " Kitch 'n Synch ".
(* Very Roughly Speaking:
Kitsch: "bad art";
Synch: Comic Book Hero that could take on another mutant's powers.)
What does the passenger have to do on long trips? And is music streaming more distracting than commercial FM radio?
What's the big difference between party shuffle and playlist shuffle?
and that there's no reasonably-priced way to interface it with the car stereoDon't most post-cassette-deck car stereos have either an iPod dock or a line-in jack? Is it like trying to connect a DVD player to one of those those old TVs that have only coax inputs?
O RLY? Much of the Internet runs on Linux, and the Internet is a series of tubes, not a dump truck. Please explain.
But there are decades of evidence behind drunk driving laws. Can you find corroborating evidence that drunk driving laws are too strict, apart from the 0.00 limits in a minority of countries (especially Islamic countries that follow Prohibition)? Are you working for RIDL, or was your post just generic devil's advocacy?
Wouldn't it be nice if podcast you downloaded last night would be in your car ready for you to listen to the next morning on your drive into work?
Wouldn't it be even nicer if you could just plug your iPod into your car stereo?
I know my 2005 Saturn Ion with the CD player (not changer) doesn't have a line-in or an iPod dock. The only thing it has is the connection for the antenna...which is great for my ancient Sirius receiver (it's portable -- it fits in a laptop bag >.) but not really for anyone else. I hear there's RF modulators like the one on the Sirius that hook through the antenna, but I've never seen any retail. My car is similar -- the iTrip doesn't get picked up by the radio well at all.
I sing the doggie electric!
Well, for one thing, I prefer the party shuffle because you can add, subtract, and re-arrange things in it. I suppose it doesn't make so much difference for a car, because I hopefully wouldn't be messing with it as much as I do on my iMac, but it's definitely better than a normal playlist.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Until we get autonomous vehicles that can take us from A to B without a driving having to pay attention, can we stop surrounding the driver with every means under the sun to not be paying attention.
We don't have to revoke all entertainment priveleges because of a careless few. There's nothing inherently wrong with radios or even handsree cell phones. In fact they may do a lot to keep drivers calm on their increasingly congested daily commutes. A video screen in the backseat is a great pacifier for restless children, and children DO get restless-- and incredibly distracting-- on long drives.
Go ahead, take out the distractions. But I would guarantee that won't mean drivers will start paying 100% attention to the road. More likely they will be more distracted by the boredom, and more prone to road rage and unsafe tactics.
What are you going to have to do to restart your car?
The following procedure has drastically improved the performance of non automotive computers and has been modified to suit it's new host.
Your automotive computer will now perform well. Audio function should have already been demonstrated but a full test of functions should be performed with Amarok. Network services will soon emerge to take advantage of the new platform and the reasonable ones will not discriminate on brand of OS used when money is offered. See Google Earth and GPS as an example of a reasonable service.
Happy Hacking.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
In the same way people want a cell phone that is just a cell phone.
And in the same vein there is nothing potentially sorrier than a four year old luxury car with all the bells and whistles gone bad or on the way. In some cases it's not just the bells and whistles.
Most Cadillacs are a maintenance nightmare once the warranty runs out. Same can be said for many other brands, makes and models. Case n point, I was looking at a two year old Lexus SUV that was for all intents, cherry. Nice ride no doubt and I like the body lines allot but, totally active suspension? What will the repair bill on that be? And it's not a matter of if but when. Bottom line was I didn't want the headache now or in the future and won't buy a vehicle that promises nothing beyond acid indigestion once the 3 years/36000 is up.
So here come Bill saying that we need Microsoft's bells and whistles else be found behind the curve. We NEED to get email in the car and so on and so forth ad infinitum. Apparently radio hawking adverts one on top the other during drive time is just to wasteful, old fashioned and un-microsoftish. Why just consider the demographics! Bill can do better and if Microsoft holds true to form, the center piece of this amalgamation will be an in dash credit card reader.
For the customer the lure results in added complexity and cost. Thanks Bill. We know you have our best interest at heart.
With Microsoft products running in a car the insurance premiums will quadruple. You know why, cause won't have the time to download music at home, but going 75 down the highway. Heck, I can even prepare my presentations while driving to work. I'll just use my feet to move the steering wheel. Feels like Pippi Longstockings !!! Yippie
I've got to love the car teevees.
They're supposed to be for the kids in the back or the passenger only, but what about the guy in
the other lane, looking thru the side window? If I'm enthralled by and addicted to Teevee, it's pretty compelling. The back of the car in front of me doesn't do a scene change an average of every 3 seconds.
Good thing there's usually only spongebob squarepants.. the day someone has X files or Firefly reruns on their teevee is going to be pretty dangerous for yours truly.
Well, happy new years, anyways!
Seriously. Did Steve McQueen read email in his car?
It's amazing how these two guys philosophy's mesh. Both think that making a product pretty (as opposed to functional/reliable) will keep customers coming back. Both believe in making their products as un-serviceable as possible to enhance service reviews for dealers. Both believe in built in obsolescence to generate a revenue stream. Both believe in making the customer pay for the bugs they build into their products (and continue to build into their products despite years and years of knowing the problem exists). Both use their flawed product to sell other services to customers to correct those flaws.
I've been a Ford man since my first car ('70 Mustang) but my '99 Villager and '99 Taurus will be my last. Toyota, Mazda maybe even a Benz but no more Fords for me. Ford products cost more and have no where near the quality of the Jap cars. When they can do it right again, I'll be back, but this cycle, it's Jap cars (and iPods) for me.
States and countries are banning using cell phones in cars left, right and centre and Microsoft, hot on the heels of the latest trends as always, decides the best place to put a PC is right on the dashboard.
Call me crazy, but it seems that on board computers in vehicles these days are becoming quite practical. Weather it's hooked up to camera's for when you back up, or gps, it just seems that a logical step is to provide digital information to the driver while on the road. Now sure we can all laugh about how this gives new meaning to 'crashing' with Windows, but hey lets be realistic here; If this is seriously where the vehicle market is headed, then I'd definitely be trying to create the operating system in which these computers are going to be used for whatever purpose they serve for the driver. Microsoft hasn't had a good place to expand their monop.. err I mean 'business' in years. They missed out on the search tech, they're losing ground in the online application market.
It sounds like going back to basics for M$, and I'd probably be doing the same thing if I were in their position, imagine, all cars come with your companies operating system on it. They sell a car, you cash in on the operating system that comes with the car. Similar to how Microsoft has been operating their monopoly on PCs for years, it's a great place to expand their 'business'.
1: Ban Guns
/G
2: Ban Gunmakers
3: Bomb Gunmakers
4: ???
5: Profit (aka overpopulation)
to the blue screen of DEATH!
I put the 't' in electrical engineering.
Bill Ford inherited wealth that was created by people who lived in a different time. Were it not for the fact that his fortune is
so huge, he would be broke, based on the conduct of his company.
He would be better off hiring someone like Carlos Ghosn ( Nissan+Renault ) to turn his company around, and going off to play golf or ski.
If what's-his-name from Boeing ( ok, Alan Mulally ) actually agreed with the idea of adding a Microsoft
operating system ( this is gimmickry, not performance !!! ) he is just as clueless as Bill Ford so obviously is. OBTW,
airliners are NOT cars ( did Mulally get this memo ? ).
And Honda is almost ready to introduce a diesel which will have 50-state emissions approval, and will run and drive well,
while achieving very good real-world fuel economy. If any of you recall the CVCC Civic, this is like history repeating itself
( while Detroit burns, the CEOs fiddle, and Honda kicks ass )
The mess at Ford would be hilarious except for the fact that the ineptitude of their top guys will result in a lot of people losing
their jobs. It didn't have to be this way.
To Bill Ford : you can't lead, you aren't good at following, so all that's left to you is to get out of the way. And I mean REALLY get out of the way.
It is many years since computers got introduced in aviation, and I have never heard of the computer crashing an airplane. In fact, autoland systems for use in a category III ILS approach need to have a failure ratio less than the order of one in ten million to be certified for use in "safety of life"-situations. And in situations of very low visibility, standard procedure is for the computer to land the airplane, simply because the computer does a better job than a human in these conditions. If you have ever flown with a 747-400 in heavy fog, odds are you have been on an airplane landed by a computer. However, the aviation industry is held to _much_ higher standards than the desktop computing industry, or even the automotive industry. The fact that airline travel so safe is a testament to this.
Personally, I would love to ride in a car with an automotive computer designed to such standards. Have any of you flown a good flight simulator, or flown a real aircraft? These systems are beautiful! Only in the weapons industry are there systems with better user interfaces. Having the responsibility of someone's life really does something to designers.
But Microsoft has a poor track record of making good applications for the mass market, so I wouldn't count on them producing anything worth using in a car. Which is a real shame, because a well integrated computer system in a vehicle makes your life a lot easier. I know of little more beautiful than interacting and cooperating with a complex machine in real time, and computers do belong in such a setting.
This being a site where an incredible amount of engineering and technology talent hangs out, how about some more constructive comments? At least Ford has the balls to talk about this issue, so how about we come up with some positive thoughts about how computing and transportation can be effectively and safely integrated? Let's face it, PCs in cars are coming, whether interaction experts are involved or not.
There are already many, many aftermarket ways to integrate computers with cars, and I'm currently working on a project to install a Mac mini in my Jeep to complement my Amateur Radio gear (Yaesu FT-100 HF/VHF/UHF system & Kenwood TM-D700A VHF/UHF system), GPS/APRS system (the Kenwood, plus a Garmin GPS 76map, soon to be upgraded), and my car stereo (Kenwood EZ-500 + iPod + satellite capable). Using a Mac mini with the addition of a ruggedized Mil-Spec HDD, and a DIN space touchscreen, I can have a shitload of wireless computing capability at my disposal wherever I go. It can run Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux in a triple boot configuration. I can run OBDII (and better) automotive diagnostic software, manage my music library, connect to the Internet, run APRS packet radio software, get satellite radio weather, watch TV (obviously not while driving, but great for news on the go), and run a whole lot of other applications. Why I want to do all this is a bit beyond the scope of this comment, but I have a want and a need to do so.
Of course, all of this is cobbled together out of many, many parts that were never really designed to integrate as a whole. Imagine the possibilities if some company were to start pulling all of these things together into a coherent system? I guarantee you that all of these things will be common place in automobiles within ten years, if not by the end of *this decade* (minus, of course, the Amateur Radio stuff, although the big three *do* provide white papers on RF equipment installation in their vehicles.
By the time I'm done with my system, I'll have more communications and computing power in my car than most police cruisers, and I'm certain that pre-manufactured systems won't be far behind. It only remains to be seen how well such systems perform. In the spirit of the hacking community, I will say that I would prefer it if the auto manufacturers would make it a bit easier to install aftermarket electronics and put easily accessible (and securable) mounting positions in their cars, better wiring harnesses and grounding systems, and heavier duty alternators in vehicles. It's almost certain that, left to their own devices, they will put in black-box systems that will be practically impossible to hack.
So when is Apple going to start using 'embedded Mac minis' in the production line of the iPods (reference virus infestation due to use of PeeCees running Windows in iPod production)
In any event, don't kid yourself. Factory managers install solid bombproof PLCs to be the controllers on the production floor, not flimsy pee-cees from Apple or any other consumer-grade vendor.
However, most/all vehicles have more than one bus (three is pretty typical)and critical componentry (braking, engine control) is not on the same bus as body electronics (lights, windows etc) or instrumentation. There are bridges between the buses, but these bridges are like a bit like NAT firewalls in that they translate and regulate messages. This, a well designed bridge will prevent propagation of a DOS on the instrumentation bus onto the engine control bus.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
-b
This line was very helpful. Thanks for including it in your post.
I see linux as being solid, powerful and rugged. In this way it is like a dump trunk. Much of the Internet runs on Linux for these very reasons. I also see it as a bit like the old Volkswagen beetles. It is fairly easy to work on. It is easy to modify.
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
... I think Microsoft should call their next system Pinto.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/12/19/miniford/i ndex.php?lsrc=mwrss
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/12/19/miniford/i ndex.php?lsrc=mwrss
I don't think Apple has an iPod production line. I think like everyone else, they outsource to the cheapest tender in China. I don't think Apple gets to dictate what their contractors use to produce iPods at the cheapest possible price. But Windows and virus do go together like a ferret in a rabbit hole.
What do you expect out of the design of a car stereo that doesn't need to be [intercoursed] with in order to sync with a PC while parked in a detached garage? And please define "[intercourse] with" so that the argument does not quickly degenerate into one of semantics.
Are you implying that Apple hardware is the same cheap commodity crap as everybody else's?
I hadn't heard anything like that from an Apple advocate before.
I guess it's accepted fact these days that Apple hardware is just the dongle you buy to run OSX, though.
> The automotive manufacturers are arguably helping reduce the accident
> counts by making the various contributory technologies less distractive,
> such as by building in hands-free calling.
That's a myth. It's been proven experimentally that a hands-free cellphone is just as distracting as one you hold. Both, incidentally, make you drive as badly as if you were legally drunk.
Chris Mattern
They might have compared talking on such phones, but I doubt the phone which requires manual input is not more distracting than the one that doesn't require taking eyes off the road.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Windows automotive? Yet another reason to trot out the old FORD is an acronym joke - Fix Or Repair Daily, Found On Rubbish Dumps, F***ed On Race Day ;-)
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
'There are going to be those who have it and those who don't. And even those who get it later are going to be a generation behind,'
Translation: "Buy our fluffy car-computer-crap now while we have the price jacked up astronomically for the early adopters. Even though aftermarket devices tend to cost half as much and offer more features and better usability since they are usually based around some kind of standard, instead of proprietary crap that keeps you coming back to Ford."
Seriously. I don't know what Ford's tricks are, but I had a Nissan with 3-screw hole speaker mounts, and a Honda with a radio tied to the electric door system and dome light. Stupid crap.
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
Funny you should mention the mini. I'm using one right now as the PC portion of my car, albeit hidden in the trunk rather than in the dash. Aside from the decidedly odd voltage and connector it takes for power (19V, and the oddest connector I've ever seen) It's almost as if the unit was designed for mobile use.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.