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Bill Gates Brags About Vista, Reacts to Apple's Latest Ads
fr8_liner writes "In an unusually candid interview with Newsweek Bill Gates lays it all on the line, bragging about the benefits of Vista, ragging on Apple for their 'I'm a Mac' ads, and claiming primacy in a number of features shared by Vista and OSX. Specifically, it is Mr. Gates' opinion that the Apple adverts are misleading if not untruthful. He makes the claim that 'security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.' The interview also touches on the future of Microsoft and Operating systems, and some of the company's plans for internet-based computing."
> And then I might edit a high-definition movie
Bill, is that the MPAA on the phone?
the NPG electrode was replaced with carbon blac
First Post! (?)
He needs to keep the boxes moving out the door. It's all promo anyway. I haven't heard about all those Mac exploits he's referring to, have you?
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
'I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.'
oh don't worry Mr Gates, we will.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
So, the updates I see twice a week fixing bugs that allow remote execution on my machine are just there for kicks and giggles?
So the highly trained security experts break OS X every day huh? Even if that had the SLIGHTEST bit of truth to it I STILL wouldn't buy Windows. Why? Cuz legions of Coke-swilling KIDS break windows all the time. Yeah I know which one I feel more secure with...
"He makes the claim that 'security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.'"
It's almost like virgins talking about sex, I'd question if he actually *uses* his own O/S.
I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.'
Yeah, there's one this month.
also here.
Are you bugged by the Apple commercial where John Hodgman is the PC, and he has to undergo surgery to get Vista?
With windows yeah you may have to upgrade your video card, install new drivers, make config changes, etc. But apple made upgrading so much easier. You can't, so you just throw it away and buy another! Now that's simple!
Considering the recent slashdot article stating that a quarter of all connected computers are part of a botnet, it seems people have already taken Bill up on his dare--those are all windows machines aren't they. In fact, it seems they preemptively took him up on his dare. At one a month it would take 12,500,000 years to infect all these computers. Microsoft would be lucky if they only had one labratory exploit a month rather than millions in the wild.
Marketing has a very close relation to the science/religion debate. Throw out a bunch of information, claiming they are facts, and don't provide any supporting information to prove your claims.
Oh, and dare people to prove you wrong, that makes you sound even more right
"I only know 2 things: The love for me, and the fear of me."
This is rich coming from the founder of a corporation found guilty of anti-trust violations. I think he knows a thing or two about truthiness.
[Bill] Gates [responded to] questions in an [unusually] candid [interview]. For [some reason] most [of] his [words] were [interjected] by the editor. This [seemed] somewhat [odd and] excessive [to me]. Did [anyone else] notice [this]? [I] mean, a[n occasional] edit for [clarity] is pretty [normal], but it [seemed] like [every other] word was [inserted later].
Great write up at Daring Fireball already: http://daringfireball.net/2007/02/lies_damned_lies _and_bill_gates
Admitedly, everything Bill says in that interview is a load of crap, but does that really excuse that bias-laden headline? For God's sake, can we at least pretend that there is a shred of credibility here?
Of course you cant come out with a total exploit for windows every month. They come out every 6 minutes.
There is no way we could slow down the exploits for windows to the rate of once per month.
Bill is simply proving to the world that he really doesn't know squat about microsoft products and the reality of what IT is anymore. (as if he knew to begin with.... He's a genius salesman, he never knew "computers" like people claim for him.)
While I like Microsoft products more than the next slashdotter, even I have to shake my head at that. My wife knows nothing about computers or how her Mac works and has taken *ZERO* precautions on her machine and has never had a problem. I'm pretty computer literate, and certainly became more security savvy, and I still sometimes get caught by stuff on my Windows box. (Admittedly, the volume is way down since I started using Firefox)
Do I think Mac is a better OS than Windows? Trick question...every OS has its place for the people that use it. Use what you like and what you're comfortable with. If your OS is getting in your way, you're using the wrong OS. (Reasons why Linux still sits in a relatively unused 20GB partition on my HDD)
"""
Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.
"""
Well first off, this just plain isn't true. But, I believe that it is true (or at least has been) for Windows. A simple search of the security focus archives would reveal if this has been true or not in the past. Any takers?
"""
I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.
"""
As someone above said careful what you wish for. Basically, I remember seeing the ad from Apple about Mac not having any virii. At that point, I wondered how long it'd be before someone did it (NEVER challenge an attacker). I think it was just a few months before it happened.
Basically, if I were Bill, given even just Vista's already sketchy security track record, I'd be careful about making such comments. How long do people here think that it'll take before the month of Vista happens?
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
I'm the "computer guy" in my family and I've convinced everyone to buy a Mac. So I'm constantly looking around for possible exploits to warn my parents, my wife, and my mother-in-law about. I paid particular attention to the month of Apple bugs.
So I'd know if people were finding "daily" security flaws with Macs. This isn't to say that there aren't any, but three hundred sixty five a year? That's not even happening in Windows. And most of the ones that I've heard about require physical access to the machine, or for the attacker to be on the network. And the very few that have been able to be remotely triggered have been fixed within the month through Apple's software update.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
It's been going on this month - the Month of Apple Bugs.
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/
Not a single instance of anything 'in the wild' though.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
Check out this part of TFA:
Is this a joke? It sure [is weird] to read an [article that] has so [many freaking] edits. I wonder [if Bill] was swearing [like a] sailor throughout [the] whole interview, and they [had to] clean [up] his potty mouth?
It's amusing to watch Mr. Bill complain of FUD, misrepresentation, and lies as he implies that Windows has been the greater source of innovation and is by far more secure ("Macs are fully exploited every single day. I challenge anyone to exploit Windows once a month.")
Yes Bill, let's talk about where those interface concepts come from. I'll give you a hint, it starts with an X and ends in an EROX. Man, I wish I had zero ethics and no sense of irony. Maybe I could be a billionare too.
I'm running the latest and greatest apple OS on dual g4 1 ghz (4-5 years old). It runs pretty well too.
What was that about throwing equipment away?
Its kind of an unfair comparison as windows supports way more configurations but I can't let statments like that go....
I am not a big fan of the "I am a Mac" ads. Being a Linux user, I don't care that much about OS X or Windows based PCs. So perhaps my opinion is unbiased.
:-(
I think that these ads might offend Windows users instead of getting them to switch to the cool side. These ads do not show the strength of Macs. These focus more on insulting Windows based PCs.
Moreover, don't know why, but I've always felt that any company that really has superior products doesn't have to attack the competition this way. In fact, through these ads, Apple has lost a little respect in my eyes, if nothing else.
ps. I know that writing something against Apple might not go very well with my Karma, though
Well, take a look at the SANS Top-20 Internet Security Attack Targets and count how many times you see the word 'Microsoft' versus the number of times you see 'Apple' or 'OSX'.
Hmmm...
For Vista? It's only been out a month.
Newsbytes News Network, April 6, 1994 Yeah, cool new idea there, Bill.
Edith Keeler Must Die
It's probably worth posting the Daily Show interview with Bill Gates:
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
we have editors?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
1. Vista is real kewl.
2. I can't believe how apple is lying about being superior.
3. In the future we'll lock in customers by offering our applications as services and by storing the user's data on our servers.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
When Gates says that people are coming up with exploits for the Mac every single day, it's possible he really believes it. The truth, of course, is far different (and much less dangerous than with Windows exploits), as anyone who actually uses the platform can attest; but Gates here is talking to his core audience, which wants to be reassured that the security headaches they're constantly having aren't peculiar to the Windows platform. As with Bush talking to the GOP faithful, it's important to stay on-message.
Dog is my co-pilot.
...this sad facade of optimistic propaganda, despite obvious failure.... ah, I remember! You gotta love him
Gray. Seattle thinks the rest of the world is insane for insisting that the sky is blue.
Gates mentions Linux, without really any prompting from the interviewer, in his second answer. He doesn't really say anything, but just the fact that he mentions Linux without having to is going to make Linux seem more like a serious contender to many people.
Heh, I was thinking the same thing. "What else could he have possibly said [here]?" (nothing else made any sense, other than swearing).
I haven't seen Bill Gates this scared of Apple/Mac since the ramp up to Windows 3.x. Perhaps not coincidentally, I saw this pointed out earlier today.
I can't imagine with his wealth and the importance of what the Gates Foundation can be doing why he bothers to show up to work at Microsoft anymore. You'd think he'd have graduated from that position a while ago.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
What point is he trying to make here? Windows had it first? MacOS 1.1 seems to have everything but the "help" entry. Windows 1.01 is close but not quite there.
Or is he trying to make the point that Apple didn't invent the GUI? If you'd like to get technical, Bill, Xerox didn't have those specific features either.
I'd love to counter his ridiculous points, but I can't figure out which flawed point he's going for.
OK couple things about his statements that jumped out at me from reading TFA: The number [of violations] will be way less because we've done some dramatic things [to improve security] in the code base. Apple hasn't done any of those things.
Um, Bill, Apple hasn't had to fix DLL hell, and processes run by a user blowing away system things, because they didn't build those problems in in the first place. They didn't have to block open ports with vulnerable services listening on the by default, because they're not _open_ by default. And so on. Next?
Question: How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done.
How so, Bill? What are the hardware requirements for your new OS? How many 5 year old boxes, or even 3 year old boxes, meet that?
You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it's superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of truth to it.
So Bill is saying, that there's no truth to the statement that you need to make hardware changes if you want to upgrade to vista. NO truth to it.
Tell that to my inlaws; they'll need a new box entirely.
I mean, it's fascinating, maybe we shouldn't have showed so publicly the stuff we were doing, because we knew how long the new security base was going to take us to get done. Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.
OK Bill, show me the figures. Show me a total exploit on OSX. Now, show me 365 of them for each year it's been out. Back up your figures or be shown to be the liar you are.
I just can't keep going through this, I think that one says it all about the guy's outright lies, and/or complete lack of clue. So, windows fanbois, is he lying, or is he clueless?
.... Given his reaction when questioned about the look of Vista by Miles O'Brien of CNN:
a tes-always-say-no-no-no-when-he-hears-os-x-232750. php
t es-tells-jon-stewart-why-he-should-buy-vista-yes-i t-was-as-boring-as-this-headline-232403.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/bill-gates/does-bill-g
and his "performance" on The Daily Show:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/the-daily-show/bill-ga
I'd say that Bill is a bit scared that Vista will flop, or worse, people will just buy a Mac.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
"security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."
And every single day, probably thousands of Windows machines are taken over by malware, in the wild. Unless I'm a user with an inconsiderate security researcher in my house who daily takes over my machine, that they do this in their labs is irrelevant to me.
I'm not apologising for Microsoft, but the bit where he says Apple's ads are misleading is talking specifically about the ad where 'PC' is having surgery to upgrade - from TFA:
.
How about the implication that you need surgery to upgrade? Well, certainly we've done a better job letting you upgrade on the hardware than our competitors have done. You can choose to buy a new machine, or you can choose to do an upgrade. And I don't know why [Apple is] acting like it's superior. I don't even get it. What are they trying to say? Does honesty matter in these things, or if you're really cool, that means you get to be a lying person whenever you feel like it? There's not even the slightest shred of truth to it.
And I'm not being funny, but it's easier to upgrade a PC than a Mac. Am reminded of You pick it up, throw it away, then go buy a new one - now that's convenience
Cue G5 tower (of which I am one) and Mac Pro users replying saying that they can be upgraded - sure they have expansion slots and you can change the graphics card - that's great but most PC's are more flexible - for example if you want you can change the motherboard etc. - can't exactly do that with a Mac tower. The other question of course is exactly why is it Microsoft's fault if PC hardware can or cannot be upgraded?
Having said all that of course, having used Vista Business for the last month, I'd advise avoiding it like the plague until at least the first service pack and for software to be fixed to work on it like Server admin tools etc.
Wow. I'm not sure that I would actually go as far as he has with trying to spin Vista. He is still a very wealthy man, and making obviously delusional statements such as these in public could be grounds for having him declared mentally incompetent. I wonder if Melinda put him up to it?
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine
So does this mean that if we do take him up on his dare, we won't be prosecuted if we succeed?
Last I checked, being dramatic in an interview (though I really felt like this was more of a press release) has absolutely no effect on code security. Your code base? As far as the Windows code base (past, present & I'll bet future), I have one comment: "All your bases belong to us".
Still no viruses on a Mac, there was one instance of a trojan that petered out pretty quickly...
And still no spyware.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'd say this is just like most blog articles: flaming to get referred to. Bill is blogging on his own MSNBC again. But when people actually go there to read it, it's so shallow and dim minded that they decide to click on the ads.
NO WAY! You mean advertisements (like this interview) aren't truthful!?
Crap.. does this mean my penis enlarging cream and weight loss supplements AREN'T making all the fat in my body run into my depending member?
CRAP!
-GiH
Put on your PC flak jackets Vista users...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
The MOAB actually only came up with three or four Apple bugs, the rest were in third party software that also applied under Linux and Windows!
The most serious exploit (Quicktime) could only be replicated by one in sixty people, and that was when RUNNING A CUSTOM EXECUTABLE LOCALLY, generating the attack file from the binaries on your computer - again, which only worked for one in sixty people.
Ridiculous. Now we know exactly what projects like MOAB lead to, idiocy at the highest levels of the executive quarter.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It was most disappointing. Kind of like buying a printer, and discovering all the printer control codes in the manual. Remember when that happened?
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Gates to Hackers: "Bring it ON!"
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Let's get this straight. The fact that Macs can be hacked makes exploiting Windows okay?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
NEWSWEEK: If one of our readers confronted you in a CompUSA and said, "Bill, why upgrade to Vista?" what would be your elevator pitch?
Bill Gates: The most effective thing would be if I could sit down with them and just take them through the new look for a couple of minutes, show them the Sidebar, show them the way the search lets you go through lots of things, including lots of photos. Set up a parental control. And then I might edit a high-definition movie and make a little DVD that's got photos. As I went through, they'd think, "Wow, is that something I could use, would that make a difference for me?"
I'm a developer, but even I know the sales-jargon phrase elevator pitch. I don't know many 30-second elevator rides that afford a chance to sit down with someone for a couple of minutes. They must have really nicely furnished, though slow, elevators in Redmond. (Wow, is that allegorical to Vista, or what? ;-)
Anyway, there is no way on God's green earth that Bill Gates doesn't know what "elevator pitch" means. So the answer really is, no, there is not a quick and compelling explanation for why one should upgrade to Vista. Instead, there is a long, laborious demo that ends in a rhetorical question about whether there's anything useful.
To which the answer is probably, "No."
Cool funny t-shirts for geeks, gamers and everyone else
Seriously, come on. The ad where the PC buys the Mac that C++ reference manual that he secretly lusts after himself is just so much blatant false image building it's ridiculous. Are they implying that Mac programmers live in a glorious world where technical manuals are unnecessary? Or that every windows user is a technical programmer? It's ludicrous.
The point, of course, is that it takes being the kind of person that wants a C++ GUI programming guide to actually enjoy and really understand Windows.
The "home movie" comparisons where the shapely woman is the mac one and the ugly unshaven guy in drag is from the PC is just dumb.
Easy to say, but I defy you to make a movie in MovieMaker that looks anything close to as good as one made in iMovie. Have you even used iMovie?
The PC going in for surgery is another joke. At least he PC CAN be upgraded instead of simply requiring replacement for a major OS update.
Any Mac made in the last five years can upgrade to Tiger without more than a memory upgrade and actually run many things faster. I speak from personal experience on this and the iMac I had was actually six years old. The point was that you don't *need* a hardware upgrade to upgrade the OS.
When you call someone a liar you need to provide evidence to that effect.
Boom Shanka
Right - because we would never want to embolden such people/groups.
Apple is ragging on PC - the usual story - and in the middle, up walks a red demon and a penguin who PC introduces as his "brothers".
"Troll" does not mean "anything with which I disagree". It means that someone is saying something they don't believe in order to get a reaction out of you. I believe every word I printed above. Therefore it is plainly, simply, and factually not a troll. It is also not engineered to piss people off, therefore it is also not flamebait.
It's really too bad slashdot doesn't care about abusive moderators. Oh sure, you can lose your moderation ability permanently for criticizing the editors sufficiently, or even for modding them down, but abusing moderation, well, that's A-OK.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
He looks old and tired and crotchety and he plain doesn't get it any more, does he?
Also, I know it might SEEM like Bush and Cheney have made it okay to just flat out lie, but it isn't, and you will all burn in hell.
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
Elevator pitches are supposed to be short - you have less than a minute to make someone invest more time in understanding you product or proposal.
Bill states that he needs minutes to sit us down and explain blah, blah, blah.
For F**k's sake, at least throw out "We've learned to copy better," "We admit that XP will always be full of holes and changed everything to give ourselves a head start to the bad guys," "It's pretty." Anything other than giving us a pie chart where the light grey shows the amount of time of hanging out and the dark grey shows the amount of time "kickin' it."
I'm not sure Bill would be a convincing sales guy at CompUSA.
Misleading is your statment The PC going in for surgery is another joke. At least he PC CAN be upgraded instead of simply requiring replacement for a major OS update. I have a Dual 400mhz G4 with 1 gig of ram made in 1998 that runs the newest apple OS faster than my Dell P4 2.8 gig (with HT) with 2 gigs of ram running XP, let alone trying to run Vista (tried but took too long to do anything) I also just bought dual 1.8 Gig upgrade processor's for my Mac, Which should make it even faster than my 1 year old Dell. So why do I have to throw away my Mac when a new Version of OSx comes out? Even Leopard will still support my now 9 year old Mac (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.5), and Each time I upgrade my system runs faster not slower http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/29/xp-vs-vista /
and as for customer support, the last Time I called Microsoft they told me it would Cost $250 for an answer, while talking to the Apple guy was easy with no talk of charges.
I just don't like how they say PC instead of what they're really referring to. Can't they say 'I'm the other operating system'. A PC fits into any of those pitfalls only when it's operating system lets it.
*DrugCheese rants*
And before anyone answers "EVERY month is the Month of Windows Bugs" I mean where someone publishes a nice calendar or even just an easy-to-reference list.
I am not a Mac user yet, though I am going to make the switch when I get a new laptop. The commercials are not the reason for me switching, I think they are stupid. Having extensive knowledge of the Windows operating systems, I know that a lot of the things that are said on the "I'm a Mac..." commercials is just plain wrong. For exmaple: how can it be claimed that Macs are for fun and PCs are for business when Mac have six [youtube.com] games? They have more than one commercial that make fun of PCs for being for business only, and these are the one that bother me most.
They also have those two commercials about photo albums and home vidoes. On the Mac it looks great, but on the PC is looks like a hack job. To me, this isn't saying it is easier on the Mac, its saying that, "everyone looks better when done on a Mac. Ha Ha PC! Go back and run Word at someone's office like you are supposed to".
If your product is superior, tell us about its strengths, not about the competitions "supposed" weaknesses. Apparently Apple thinks PC users have no artistic talent or games to play.
Microsoft can't fire back, and it'd be terrible marketing to try.
It's one thing for an underdog to make fun of the market leader, but when the market leader makes fun of the underdog, that massively strengthens the underdog's position. People would wonder why Microsoft are so rattled, they'd hear the Apple name and maybe look into these computers.
On the reverse side, Apple's trying to gain marketshare in a world that already knows all about Windows, so mentioning it won't hurt Apple.
Ignoring the slings and arrows of Apple's marketing team is a much better position.
Has it occurred to anybody to check the funding for the "security experts" who came up with MOAB. Billy seemed kind of familiar with it, didn't he? At least with its spin.
Since Microsoft has been well-known to fund phony grassroots activity, $20 million for phony lawsuits agains IBM and any flavor of linux you can name, and all kinds of dirty tricks, I'm just wondering who's doing the funding for the "security researchers." I mean, for a solid month, there's a trickle of pee about so-called security problems, and then, Vista is launched, and the CEO and founder is still hit with snide comparisons to the Mac and the iPod. Do I know it for sure? No. Would I put it past them? No.
From TFA
The more avid users download the upgrades in between, but of XP users how many downloaded a browser that was more advanced than the one they had? Maybe you and the people you know all did, but most people don't.
Yes, Bill, they do, and that browser's name is Firefox.
He rants on about Windows Search like its the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Is it just me or have you noticed how hard it is just to search for a file with a given name?
You have to go to the start menu, click the search tool, select file (which is not the default), go to extended options, find and check the option to tell it you want to look in the system directories too, type the name, hit start button. If you missed you can't just easily retry a different spec, you get all this nonsense options that you have to wade through. I don't need the options to search for people on the internet or whatever repeatedly getting in my way.
Linux is either:
locate filename
or
find . -name filename
Just look at the relative lengths of the description, let alone the time it takes to do it.
It's only really been out a couple of days.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Oh dear, Billy, you sound a little flustered this time around. Good.
... you say "No, I think you'll find that Microsoft offered all these user interface innovations long before Apple ... what's that you say ... oh ... that stuff ... yeah sure we copied everything from Apple in the past 7 years, but just remember this: Microsoft invented the File Menu". That's some innovation right there, Billy Boy. Without the File menu, I suppose we couldn't open files, right? You should have patented it while you had the chance.
First you make the idiotic statement that someone discoveres a 'full system' exploit for OSX every day, and go on repeating that point. But a) I don't think it's quite that often, in fact I would be surprised if it was one every week, and b) at least Apple fix things in a relatively timely manner. Windows 'full-system' exploits, on the other hand, DO pop up every day, and go unchecked for months without being patched.
You say "we've done a lot to fix security, and Apple hasn't done any of these things". What kind of an claim is that exactly? There doesn't appear to be any substance. Hell, I've done a lot to fix security in my software, and Microsoft haven't done any of these things.
The bottom of page 2 is a classic
I also like the crying foul over Apple's adverts. Not that I'm an Apple fan, but you can tell by Bill's response that Apple are good at hitting raw nerves.
Panther was the saviour of our Bondi iMacs - faster than ever before - ditto Tiger for my G3 iBook.
I have circa 2001 mainstream PCs that choke on XP.
And that's with all the pretty colors turned off.
Which is the only way to tell you're ruinning XP anyway.
God, I'm sick of having to 'splain why everything's grey again.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
In nearly every single Vista article, there is mention of OS X and how it's had these features for years, which is a refreshing change. It's been extremely frustrating for Mac users the last six years because they had this OS that, despite early flaws, was years ahead of its time, but the tech media continued to ignore it. Maybe this started after OS X Tiger was released, but since last year's Vista delay, the media has been really harsh toward Vista and praiseworthy toward Apple. It's like they're finally giving Apple some long overdue credit for keeping the momentum going on OS X while the "biggest software company in the world" couldn't even squeeze out an update to its aging Win32 codebase.
It's like the press finally realized how behind Windows is and how it never really came to dominate the market based on its merits. Microsoft just got lucky with a braindead IBM contract in the 80s and rode the commodity PC wave. Everybody has realized that Microsoft isn't that big and scary at all, and now that they're being forced to compete with Google, Apple, and others, we see just how floundering they are. The tactics they used to use in the 90s (announcing vaporware to freeze the market, releasing buggy 1.0 versions and getting OEMs to bundle them over competitors, etc.) don't work anymore.
Vista is a headache to use. The interface, the extra dialogs, the multiple menu styles, the redundant buttons...it's a schizophrenic OS, and it even runs your games slower. Apps like Windows DVD Maker are a pathetic joke compared to iLife. I bet we didn't see an iLife '07 announcement at MacWorld because it's going to be bundled right into Leopard as part of the OS, just to stick it to Microsoft even further.
Seeing Bill's reaction is just funny. This isn't the first interview he's been asked about OS X--there's a clip on YouTube where a CNN guy asks him about it as well, and Bill just pauses and reacts. It's funny. The press is finally waking up.
"Actually, if you look at Windows strength versus Linux, or versus anything, it's done very well, because we have this big ecosystem."
This is official recognition that Linux is a serious threat to Vista OS. Why else would Bill mention this to a MSNBC reporter? A slip of the tongue? This gets me very excited about Ubuntu and other "ready for the masses" Linux OS.
I dual boot XP and Ubuntu, and I can't wait to try out Vista. The more options, the better. I wouldn't mind trying out a triple boot with OS X too.
"Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."
Just the erroneous use of "totally" here makes Bill sound like a twelve year old schoolyard bully trying to assert his supremacy. He's going to have ten times the amount of attacks on Vista now, because of this.
"Does the entire tenor of that campaign bother you, that Mac is the cool guy and PC--
That's for my customers to decide."
They're deciding Bill, they're realizing that you:
A.) Don't care about them, never will.
B.) Really don't get it; you're quite late trying to get on board the "digital lifestyle" train. If Windows is for my digital lifestyle, I must be living in a binary cardboard box.
C.) Can't come up with a convincing argument to purchase your new OS, despite having a mountain of money at your disposal to promote it with.
As other users here have mentioned, I too am not crazy about the "I'm a Mac" ads, I think that they are pompous in their own ways, but they in no way make me feel that Apple is as blatantly ignorant and Gates and MS come off being. I recently bought my Macbook, and though I still own my windows machine, I am further convinced that I'd rather continue my move to Apple when I read comments like this from the CEO of a corporation trying desperately to catch up with the users it is consistently alienating.
brian botkiller "Condensing fact from the vapor of nuance" - Neal Stephenson, Snow Crash
I have a Dual 400mhz G4 with 1 gig of ram made in 1998 that runs the newest apple OS faster than my Dell P4 2.8 gig (with HT) with 2 gigs of ram running XP,
I don't believe you. Well... that's not really true. I think your Dell needs a good tuning.
Regardless, I have in my previous life been on the front lines of Macintosh support, all the way back to replacing endless numbers of power boards in the old beige Mac Plus's. I think I've still got my certificates somewhere. I never saw a performance increase from an OS upgrade. Admittedly the most recent years are out of my experience, as I moved on from support before OS X was released. OS X I'm familiar with mostly through helping people with it as favours.
We can talk about all the people left in the cold by the System 7 update, or the growing pains of OS 9 - I remember that. I recently put OS X on a early mode G4, and found that even after a memory upgrade it was clearly unhappy.
I remember selling upgraded motherboards for ridiculous prices to Mac LC owners back in the day. And I mean RIDICULOUS. I couldn't believe people paid it. And they had to send back the original motherboard to be used as refurbs or pay even more.
Our store went through a boom in Mac sales each OS revision.
I've seen a number of stories in the media about vista and none of them bring up DRM at all. By far the most important change from a user's perspective and no one wants to talk about.
I stole this Sig
I don't know if there *was* a virus on OS X, but...
I challenge all those virus-writing bozos to write one! Clearly they haven't got the faintest idea how to create something truly malicious when they don't have a bunch of pretty scripts already written for them. Not a single virus? That shows these bain-dead hacks can't write real code for peanuts. They're hopeless jokes and OS X users laugh about them all the time. And their mothers are too fat.
There. I said it.
Someone had to.
"Never challenge an attacker" ?
In the case of security, I *want* OS X to be the subject of intense scrutiny. I want people combing the OS for hooks they can hang malware on. This will force Apple to respond and make the OS more secure. If this doesn't happen, the OS will stay as it is (and that's not a bad level of security right now).
The MOAB fizzled out to a few third-party issues (most fixed by now) a few categories of Apple issues and a *lot* of invective from those bozos. They were useless hacks unfit to call themselves researchers. They failed comprehensively to find that "smoking gun" which would have catapulted them to the notoriety they sought.
So, who's next? Any wanna-be virus writers looking for a challenge? Or are you all too chicken? Are you all incapable?
I double-dog dare you!
Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally.
They're feeding those exploits to Apple so that they can improve the Mac.
That would be an example of "responsible disclosure", which Microsoft is so much in favour of.
Wouldn't it be irresponsible not to do so?
Perhaps he was referring to the Month of Apple Bugs:
http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/#about
Anyone have a link to an equivalent Vista site?
I think the funny part was that it was a C++ GUI guide. That's so over. A book about Web GUI with Ruby that would be a good gift.
"People can see how we've mixed together our Office talent and Windows talent to get the best of both worlds..."
Ummm, isn't that what got them in trouble with the DOJ? Wasn't that why one of the remedies for the monopolistic abuses to split them up into multiple companies with the OS company being separate from the applications company? Even though the split-up was eventually overruled, doesn't this show that Microsoft is intentionally using insider information between Office and Windows?
Where did those concepts come from?
Apple's Lisa.
That's where they first saw the light of day in any form.
Xerox didn't invent everything - Apple greatly extended the original GUI concept, adding pull-down menus, full system icons and much more.
A bit of history can be found at ArsTechnica...
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/3
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/4
Gates' claims are so absurd, they're not really worth refuting. So instead I'll go to bed and let Gruber do the job.
Good night.
I suspect this will go down about as well as George W. Bush's statement to "Bring 'em on!"
On one hand, I hope it won't. More exploits means more boxes being exploited, and the victims are the end-users, not the people who claimed Vista was (relatively) impenetrable. On the other hand, it's hard to fight Schadenfreude.
I've always felt that any company that really has superior products doesn't have to attack the competition this way.
Allow me to share a better reason to own a Mac and a firm rebuttal to Bill Gates with one link...
Despite the fact that the Army website is the target of hundreds of attacks every day, not one has succeeded since the switch to Mac systems in 1999.
99.995% uptime and zero security breaches for 7 years and counting.
Case in point: did you know Vista is "flawless"? ;-)
Of course you cant come out with a total exploit for windows every month.
I tried to write a total exploit on Windows this one month, but I kept getting interrupted by popups.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Anyone else thing Bill is starting to sound more and more like the Black Knight?
BLACK KNIGHT: Come Here.
ARTHUR: What are you going to do, bleed on me?
BLACK KNIGHT: I'm invincible!
ARTHUR: You're a looney.
BLACK KNIGHT:The Black Knight always triumphs. Have at you!
And so on...
blah blah blah
Yes, although security is a cost-center not a profit-maker and a minor priority at Microsoft. You're gloating over the fact that there have been some security updates already for Windows Vista. This is exactly the way it should work. When somebody comes to us bitching about some security flaw that we couldn't care less about we've got to ensure that our marketing engine gets into full spin mode to deal with repercussions from the new, buggy patches we put out before there is any exploit. So it's totally according to plan, and that's why we have the whole Windows Update thing. We made it way harder for guys to do exploits. The number of times we just admit we f*cked up and fix the thing will be way less because we've done some dramatic things like buy of the Dept of Justice, throwing chairs, and totally ignoring security in the code base. Apple hasn't done any of those things.
Fixed that for ya.
I think Bill meant "only" once a month. It would be quite a challenge for many hackers to restrain themselves that much.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I hope you meant that as sarcasm. I find extensive documentation to be a good thing.
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
Even though the viewing public, a.k.a. Joe Sixpack, knows it Windows the Mac ads are attacking, their literal effect is to make Linux fanboi's like myself (yes, I can admit that about myself) want to jump up and yell that PC is a FAR more flexible player than MAC.
I can't believe I just posted that. I'm going to go wash my mind out with bleach now.
As a free-thinker, I like to believe that I'll buy whatever is best. I'm not really loyal to any particular brand
or OS.
Then why are you attacking those other free thinkers who have come to the conclusion that Apples combination of proprietary wrappers and custom hardware built atop open standards and open source is the best thing for them at the moment?
That's right, you're AC and able to simply follow that technical tourettes syndrome wherever it may lead you verbally. Perhaps you're not as much of a free thinker as you thought, since it seems to me I've seen an awful lot of posts like yours all singing the same (exactly the same) tune.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A: I've never seen it. I don't think the over 90 percent of the [population] who use Windows PCs think of themselves as dullards, or the kind of klutzes that somebody is trying to say they are.
Bill's never done tech support, has he?
Look at the article; it has a video of the commercial that's making Gates mad. It's embedded using Flash player. This is on msnbc.msn.com.
MS is in bad shape if its own website isn't even using Windows Media.
Penny - plain text accounting
The article about Vista vulnerabilities that you're referring to is here.
candid - carefully articulated, with purposed reference to selling points and marketing terms, avoidance of meaningful response to questions, and absolute denial of facts.
perl -e "eval pack(q{H*},join q{},qw{70 72696e74207061636b28717b482a7d2c717b343 637323635363534323533343430617d293b})"
If this is the "wow I want it" that he predicts, it seems as though he doesn't even have confidence in Vista.
The answer for me is "NO, that doesn't matter to me." Those are all gimicks that took more time to develop and
probably leeched time out of the development that really mattered.
Money is the root of all evil?
I've finally LOST all RESPECT for Bill Gates. He bullshitted Steven Levy from the very beginning. And Bill gates revealed that he is a dumb ass. He says consumers are smart. He does not act like it. Entire article was a bunch of bullshit and lies. And he knows he will get away with it because he actually thinks consumers are dumb enough to fall for it.
\
The PC going in for surgery is another joke. At least he PC CAN be upgraded instead of simply requiring replacement for a major OS update.
You missed the point. Generally speaking, major OS X updates don't require you to upgrade your hardware, or at least not on the same level as Vista (a 128M video card? why?)
technically correct but, RC1 has been out since september 06. 'vista' debuted 2005-05-05. longhorn since november 2002. i think this gave plenty of time to look for holes.
always mosh clockwise
Mr. Gates, do you actually mean you are planning on stripping OUT all that shiny new DRM technology you are so carefully putting IN now, presumably because, by the time your next OS comes out (in five to ten years), all your fat corporate sponsors will have finally figured out that treating customers like common thieves and criminals is, well, sort of bad for business?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
And did you know that part of their solution to keep Vista from being hacked is:
"don't dual boot linux (this is how viruses spread)"
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Rhapsody in Numbers
Every time Billy says the word apple. a bell jingles in Cupertino
Well, it was on msnbc.com, so we shouldn't expect journalism at all.
(Crickets chirping) What the hell, where are the damn robots? What, they still are still downloading updates? We've got all these smug punks in one spot and you're telling me no robots!? We have to wait until SP1? Oh the humanity.
This isn't over, you hear me you bunch of Steve Jobs trouser sniffers, we'll be back. Damn it stupid robots.
skinfitz is completely justified in his statements.
c id=17864330c id=17864732c id=17864980
/. discussions. What the hell went wrong that moderation has gotten so bad lately?
mod me down offtopic all you want, but for fucks sake, mod these up:
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=220314&
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=220314&
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=220314&
I used to like reading
No, I don't have karma to burn. And I hope that's indicative of what a fucking injustice the moderation on this thread is.
---k--
</stupid>
When you call someone a liar you need to provide evidence to that effect.
OK, how about the ad that claims that the PC needs special drivers for the camera, but the Mac doesn't? Name a consumer-level camera that natively interfaces with a Mac that won't do so with a PC. They blatantly lie in this ad, claiming that the PC doesn't understand the new camera. If they wanted to take a shot at Windows' driver issues with cameras, they'd have to find an old non-standards-compliant camera, not the "new camera from Japan."
Sounds like a dare to me...so...OK! So I will!
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
I'm certain he was referring to MoAB. My OS X setup is unaffected by the majority of MoAB "bugs"; as you said, many rely on third party apps (and therefore aren't really "Apple" bugs at all). That's not the only reason Mr. Gates can rightly be accused of a lie: "every day"? As in "every single day" since a particular date? MoAB had a hard time stretching a full month out of the few security flaws they were able to find in Apple's software, but a full year? And given the restriction of operating system (Tiger) bugs ONLY?
I was opposed to the MoAB project because I thought it irresponsible. I would say the same of YoAB (Year of...) but my hat would come off to anyone who could accomplish
Gates lied about several other things in this interview, even contradicting himself: he claims he hasn't seen the Get A Mac campaign ads (which are broadcast during some of America's most popular prime time television shows) but knows full well what sort of creature Apple paints Microsoft Windows to be.
Apple has done more than they could hope for with their Get A Mac campaign: they've really really pushed Bill's new Aero-skinned captionless Start button.
I know, I know!!!! This is a trick question isn't it Bill??? Is it Xerox?????
Hmm, Mr. Gates, I'd definitely like some of those features. Perhaps I should go pick up a Mac. (In black, please.)
I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
It is good to see more tech-specialised media having a go at him. Still, his reaction majorly upsets me - page 2 of TFA in particular, where he first whines about the lies of mac. Then he goes and makes blatant lies such as implying that OSX stole concepts which they announced, because Vista security took too long... (erk), and So.. MS came up with File, Edit, View and Help... while Apple came up with the GUI and the DESKTOP.
And also I have yet to see any interviewer get to the hard issues - DRM, WGA, licensing, and so on. All the media focusses on is the visible issues - HD media, parental controls and aero.
It becomes a very valid comparison.
Yep, it's a spoof site.
-Mike
I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
on youtube now?
Gates suggests "having a fix" for an exploit means "there are no vulnerable machines out there." What a maroon...
1 in 4 Maine children in struggle with hunger.
from the article:
"We can use Live Services [a way to connect to Microsoft via the Internet] to know what you're interested in. So even if you drop by a [public] kiosk or somebody else's PC, we can bring down your home page, your files, your fonts, your favorites and those things."
Does anyone else out there find this the least bit troubling, from an Orwellian "Big Brother is watching you" standpoint?
...which version of Vista are we talking about?
Worst. Signature. Ever.
Umm, that's great "progress," but I like actual books. I don't want to have to download DRM'd textbook files, worry about hardware failure and battery life when simply trying to read, and stare at a computer screen instead of proper pages. Some weeks I read hundreds of textbook pages, and I cannot conceive of doing so any way but with a real, paper-and-ink book.
My grandmother used anecdotal evidence all the time, and she lived to be 120 years old.
I bet we didn't see an iLife '07 announcement at MacWorld because it's going to be bundled right into Leopard as part of the OS, just to stick it to Microsoft even further.
Windows from many vendors some with lots of bundled limited funcition or time trialware. This is hurting MS in a big way. People want to buy a PC and go to work, not spend the time pulling off stuff that doesn't work. Way too many people can directly relate to the I'm a Mac commercial called "Out of the Box" which shows Mac and PC in boxes. The Mac guy is ready to go to work. The PC guy needs lots of updates out of the box including patches and AV updates.
Fully working bundled applications was one of the pleasnt suprises in Ubuntu. It came loaded with applications. The add/remove got fully working applications installed. I have yet to find a demo anything in Ubuntu. I don't have a Mac. If Mac's bundled applications work like Ubuntu's bundled applications, then the commercial is right-on.
MS thinks Paint is a photo editor. Ubuntu thinks The Gimp is a photo editor. I consider only one ready to edit photos out of the box. Same for e-mail, Evolution or Outlook Express, editing, Notepad, Wordpad, or Open Office, Abi word. I'm not sure what the bundled apps are with a Mac, but if they are as good as what comes with Ubuntu, they have a winner.
In short... It's the killer apps stupid.
In the 1980's, there was tons of free software for the DOS platform and that was a reason to get a DOS PC. Now the PC market is
The truth shall set you free!
...how come you're not traded in those stupid-looking old-fashioned spectacles for some modern laser eye surgery?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
really needs to get out a lot more.
The "right" OS for you is the one that runs the apps you need with a minimum of personal hassle.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Can someone enlighten me?
Either BG is saying Apple introduced it on the Mac MS just blindly copied it even though it was a crap idea
or
MS invented it and we think it's a great idea (yuk).
Steve Jobs must be loving this uncool reaction; the ads have hit BG right in the nuts - ouch!
Hmmm, or maybe the new MS strategy to counter Apple cool is to make uncool the new cool. Clever.
Full-time astroturfers can hang out on slashdot all day, every day and if one does that enough, one gets to moderate.
It's the fundamental problem with anonymous (to the userbase) moderation. I don't know what problem it was intended to solve, I'll just say that AFAIK, slashdot is the only major blog that still uses it.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Jon Stewart should have interviewed Gates witha stormtrooper helmet on. When Gates asks "Why are you wearing a stormtrooper helmet, John?" Stewart replies "I'm not wearing a helmet... dark master."
... and then they built the supercollider.
This really adds a new chapter to the Apple vs Microsoft product design debate. In the past we could compare Apple and Microsoft products, and also compare the process and methodology that both companies use to design products. But, fools that we were, we were comparing shipping products only. Of course if Bill Gates decided that Windows should have Parental Controls in 2002 and Apple shipped Parental Controls in 2005, and Microsoft in 2007, then it is actually Apple that is three years behind not Windows that is two years behind. Thanks for clearing that up, Bill.
Also I like how he says that the only reason why Apple has been shipping all these new features and iterating upon them again and again regularly is that Apple has been leaving out security. Isn't that classic projection? This is like when the town's biggest drunk picks on the town's workaholic by calling him a "drunk". It's like the workaholic may have problems, but you're the town drunk, buddy.
Just replace the case with an ATX case, PSU, motherboard, processor, CPU, hard drive, and if your new motherboard isn't integrated, the video card. (make CERTAIN the video card is Vista-compatible... based on reports from users who've actually gotten it to work) On second thought, just go with a separate Vista-ready video card, apparently, integrated video chipsets don't have the horsepower.
Glad I could help.
My 1999 computer is running Debian Etch today... of course, it's on it's fourth motherboard.
Tech Public Policy stuff
No, it starts with A and ends with pple. The Xerox systems did not have pull-down menus.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Are you bugged by the Apple commercial where John Hodgman is the PC, and he has to undergo surgery to get Vista?
I've never seen it. I don't think the over 90 percent of the [population] who use Windows PCs think of themselves as dullards, or the kind of klutzes that somebody is trying to say they are.
It sound like Mr. Gates completely missed the point of the commercial. It's an allegory. The dumpy guy in the suit represents a PC, not a PC user. The cool guy with the artsy facial hair represents a Mac, not a Mac user.
Not only that, but it's a really good allegory, IMHO:
- PC is overweight, and his suit is kind of generic and boring. It doesn't really fit very well.
- Mac is streamlined and efficient. His clothes are stylish and well integrated. They look like they were tailored for him.
- PC's multimedia output can be awkward and ugly. It's rough around the edges and looks bad in a dress.
- Mac's multimedia output is professional and beautiful, like a supermodel.
- PC gets sick a lot, and has to reboot often.
- Mac is much healthier, and has better natural immunity.
- If muscle and body fat represent the OS layer, then PC's Vista surgery must be some bizarre form of reverse liposuction, where more fat is added to the body, and then the skeleton has to be upgraded to carry the additional load. At least he's going to get a nicer suit out of it.
- Mac doesn't seem to have any extra fat. He upgrades by working out, I guess. (I don't know, I'm reaching here. The allegory is getting thin).
A republic cannot succeed till it contains a certain body of men imbued with the principles of justice and honour.
"We can use Live Services [a way to connect to Microsoft via the Internet] to know what you're interested in. So even if you drop by a [public] kiosk or somebody else's PC, we can bring down your home page, your files, your fonts, your favorites and those things."
So MS will control all your data and information?
Good luck.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Questions?
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
It's only really been out a couple of days.
To the public; we business customers got Vista Business back in December.
I went back to XP after two weeks - it's simply not 'there' yet.
The media will kiss the ass of anybody who payed for as much ADVERTISING as Microsloth. Microsoft was treated so nice that when the EMAIL macro virus problem hit-- nobody reported it only existed on OUTLOOK.
Now Apple spends more than they ever did on traditional advertising. I hardly watch TV and I see plenty of ipod and mac ads.
Now the media is somewhere in the middle of two large customers. Back when windows XP came out, that was not the case.
If SLASHDOT or MOZILLA payed for a chunk of ads, we'd hear about how much better Firefox is, evil Windows Vista DRM, how Vista can never be secure, ODF, and how MS bribes politicians.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
This demonstrates one of the fundamental differences between Mac users and Windows users. Mac users love their platform far above any available alternative. This means that Jobs can inflict substantial amounts of pain on them when he deems it necessary, and not lose his user base. The CPU architecture of the Mac has changed twice since 1990 (MC680x0 to PPC to x86), and the OS has undergone a similar number of changes that rendered all existing software "legacy". Even so, the Mac users take the whipping because they love their Macs.
Microsoft, on the other hand, has been very careful indeed with its compatibility issues. For Microsoft, compatibility and incompatibility are key tools in managing their user base. Smooth compatibility in the direction you wish to shepherd your user base, and errect compatibility barriers in the other directions. The compatibility oddities you note in your post exist because they influence the user base in ways beneficial to Microsoft's monopoly. You're thinking in terms of Microsoft serving the user base, which simply doesn't happen unless it coincides with Microsoft serving their own monopoly.
With that in mind, consider what would happen if Microsoft did what was necessary to clean up their OS: had a MacOS 9 to X style of transition. Their user base can already do that: it's called migrating to Linux, and has the advantage that it also frees them from Microsoft lock-in. If Microsoft themselves threw down the gauntlet and proclaimed that it was time to break compatibility, the dam holding their monopoly would burst: the pain of migration is the only thing keeping many of them off Linux now.
That's not to say that everyone would migrate to Linux, but enough would that real competition would re-enter the market, and the additional support that Linux would receive as a result would make it even more of a viable competitor. It's taken Microsoft a very long time to build the monopoly they enjoy, and they will not discard it so lightly. If "[continuing] to support a fundamentally broken design for eternity" is what it takes to maintain the monopoly, then expect them to so continue.
proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
And, by the way, Xerox's Page Description Language (PDL) used to typeset documents with its tags, etc., was the precursor to HTML. We owe a lot to PARC.
What was once true, is no longer so
But are you sure you got what was released? After all, the specs hanged hugely since 05.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Did you expect differently? After all, SP1's release date was announced prior to the official "consumer" release date, and possibly prior to the "biz" release date (I admit I wasn't quite following the news releases with baited breath, so...)
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Did anyone else laugh hysterically when Bill walked off the set of the Daily Show? Way to perpetuate that "I'm a Windows geek and don't understand basic social interactions (or hygiene for that matter)". It reminded me of Bill needing to quickly run off to the MS Bat-copter waiting on the roof so he can quickly beat the Mac guys to the next poorly thought out press release.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those who can read binary, and those who can't.
pc beige?
What I see is that nearly every review of Vista is written by a Mac user. Since I haven't used a Mac since test driving it in a store in 1984, I'm obviously extremely qualified to review the next version of OS X. Apple, I'll be waiting for my free Mac!
For example, Apple did not invent the mouse. But they engineered the mouse from an unreliable, expensive piece of crap, into a practical tool that anyone could use, and was very inexpensive. And they studied how people actually interact with computers and software.
Any schmoe can come up with ideas. It takes talent to make those ideas work in a practical, human way that makes economic sense. I never said we didn't owe anything to PARC, but to think that Apple didn't do a lot of hard work, and plenty of innovation to make those ideas work, is laughable. Ideas don't just jump from the brain and materialize as good products.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Sure. Jobs sent his team to PARC so they could laugh at how far behind Xerox was.
Apple did make contributions (as did many other companies) but it's clear that there would have been no Lisa/Mac as we know it if Jobs had never visted PARC.
I just got a Macbook Pro for Christmas.
Apps that are trialware:
MS Office for Mac
iWork, which is Keynote (Powerpoint like) and Pages (Word like)
Note: I believe iWork is about $100
Full apps included:
Comic Life - not sure (comic strip writer?)
GarageBand - looks like a nifty music writer, sound recorder thingy
iCal - calendar app
iChat - see name
iDvd - player
iMovie HD - make your own dvds
iPhoto - photo album (I don't know if it can Photoshop type stuff or not)
iTunes - I think everyone knows this one (but I discovered that ESPN Sportscenter commercials are free!)
iWeb - make your own web page
Mail - email (just figured out how to considate yahoo and comcast email)
OmniOutliner - don't know
Preview - previews print jobs, can show Adobe, maybe other things
Photo Booth - picture taking with the built in camera, some effects, maybe more
Quicktime
Address Book
Calculator, Dictionary, TextEdit (notepad like)
Safari - web browser
There are also some neat widgets installed.
I think I got all of the major items. I've only had it a month, so I'm still kicking it around. I did buy iWork (though at the educational price) and Keynote is pretty damn sweet. I did a presentation to my (grad) infosec class last week and a number of people wanted to know what I the presentation on. Also didn't take too long to learn.
Hope this helps!
B
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
it shits you? i have two further questions: why did you let it digest you in the first place? ...and would you please wash yourself off? that's disgusting.
There are also some virus checkers on OS X as well. Does that mean you think there are viruses too? Virus checkers on OS X exist to filter out windows viruses from being spread by shared documents.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
The GP didn't mean "concepts" as opposed to implementation. Xerox had thousands of employees using the Alto and the Star for everyday work.
As far as the mouse is concerned, Apple's primary innovation was the removal of buttons.
No, that'd be Xerox. Actually, they were the first to implement it. The basics of the WIMP concept were first proposed by Doug Engelbart.
This isn't something I ever thought I'd have to point out in a Slashdot discussion. Apple makes great stuff, but most of their "innovations" come from elsewhere. They just do a great job at implementing them.
Oh wait, MSNBC is THAT MS? Ah.... Now who's asleep mother fucker?!?
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Just to illuminate some of these apps a bit:
Comic Life - lets you make comic strips that look completely professional, multiple frame, lettering, baloon styles, etc.
GarageBand - complete multi-track sequencer for both MIDI and analog audio, hundreds of loops, effects, etc.
iChat - AIM and Jabber client
iDvd - Create professional-quality menus for the video you edit in iMovie.
iMovie HD - Edit the video you've shot with your digital video camera
iPhoto - Full-featured photo viewing, sorting, and correction
OmniOutliner - Quick tool for taking notes, insert images, record audio clips, export tree as DHTML
Preview - All-purpose image viewer for all formats supported by the OS and QuickTime.
It's all your base ARE belong to us. GOD! IDiot! Sheesh.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
What could he be thinking of?
He cannot possibly claim that Windows came before the MacOS.
It is unlikely that he wants to give homage to Xerox.
Could it be that the early versions of MS Word for Mac in some way affected the menu items in MacOS? Does anyone know?
Or does he refer to something completely different?
Xerox invented the GUI, not Apple...
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
no, really
Maybe it's because you were targeting windows?
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
People deal with computers differently. I'm more interested in doing things with my computer than trying to relate to it. So I run Debian Etch and VMware Server/Windows 98SE... and unless I'm trying to add peripherals or other hardware to the system, It Just Works. Which suits me, since I spend at least as much time on my computer as you do. Probably more, I'm a free-lance writer, writing mainly Linux how-to stuff.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Also, if the GP wasn't talking about concepts, then why did he only mention concepts, and admit that all the implementation wasn't there? I go by what he wrote, not what you seem to imagine he wrote.
... and then they built the supercollider.
PAT
SEO Test: TIGI und SEBASTIAN - Online Shop - V
I wasn't sure what to expect to be honest but I, like a number of people was simply curious.
The idea with the iLife stuff is that they are "gateway" apps instead of "trial" apps. Because they are rich, full-featured, world class applications that are a joy to use, people actually use them and learn new skills and then a few versions later they buy a pro app that they would never have otherwise wanted or needed or know how to use.
Also it is a complete toolkit. From day one you have one of everything, so even if you replace a tool in your own professional discipline, for example a photographer replacing iPhoto with Aperture, you still have all the other tools working for you as easy to use accessories.
Engelbart invented the GUI, not Xerox.
Have a nice time.
Yeah, I saw that. So? The disclaimer I found is in the fine print, obviously meant to be stumbled across after a few minutes of head-scratching and asking yourself, "Are these guys for real?!" Besides, the 'tip', "Don't dual boot linux (this is how viruses spread)", referenced by another reply to your OP, is a dead giveaway. I can't imagine even the biggest Microsoft fanboys making that claim in earnest. :)
-Mike
I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
And offcourse the linux has to be Gentoo, the real man distro.
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge -uPv world
Do you feel lucky punk?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
...and it's still not a Mac.
Gates: "There are some who feel like that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is bring them on."
Anyone remember this Onion article a few years back, that divulged why Gates and Microsoft have done so well?
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29743/
..........FULL STOP.
radical to the max.
No way, its grody to the close.
Blank until
Security guys break windos every hour or so. There are millions of windos PCs in botnets. They're the #1 reason spam is the problem it is.
Aside from the fact that he is blatantly lying, but then again, the president does that at least once a week, so it's kinda become a part of US media culture, hasn't it?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
'security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine.'
I look at the antivirus and spybot udpates rolling in all the time. I think they're already doing that, Bill. Once a month? That would be an improvement for Windows now wouldn't it?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
I have years of experience using mice on the Alto and Star and never had a problem with them. Nobody disputes that Apple brought the GUI computer to the masses, but that doesn't mean that the Xerox computers it was based on had some sort of problem that Apple corrected. The Mac's functionality was a subset of Xerox's with some ideas Apple added. It would be many years later before Apple's computers could do everything the Xerox computers could do.
I simply stay away from apple cause none of my favorite software or games are supported on it.
Oh and yeah Apple doesn't get virus' as easily as windows? Well if 50% of the software you want to use is unsupported by Macintosh, i'd guess that 50% of the virus' won't run a Macintosh either. So yeah you're safe from 50% of the virus'' on a Mac. But do you really want to have a safe digital existence? Or do you want to take some risks and do some big things with it?
This Christmas, I tried to hook it up to either my mom's Dell laptop or my brother's HP desktop. Neither one had drivers for it, neither one could find any drivers for it when I let it do whatever wizard-thing it tried to do. I finally had to find them online myself, download them, run the program to install them *twice*, and then it would finally recognize my camera.
The odd thing is, I think I've hooked my camera up to my mom's laptop before with no problems. But since then it's had a couple viruses and a couple reformats, so I guess whatever drivers it had got lost along the way. That's also not an issue on my Mac.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Btw, I realize that this is not a brand-new camera. But it is no older than any of the computers in question (all were owned by my family at the time I got the camera). So you would think they would be able to talk to cameras that are no more outdated than themselves.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
... And this is the MAFIAA legal strategy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGYdmx1JBLo
The preview word for this is bulldog.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Windows does not have the "widest hardware support". It's not even close. It's not even close to being close.
What Windows could be said to have is the *deepest hardware support for the 200 or so devices on the shelf at Best Buy at any given time.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
I use MacOS on my 24" iMac and run other OSs using VMWare Fusion. I usually have several OSs open at a time. MacOS is actually pretty good at managing a few windows at a time but IMO it sucks for managing lots of windows at a time. So it's perfect for this role. I usually have Win2003 open to manage development and testing for our Windows server, Win2k to test things in IE6, and WinXP for testing in IE7 and running some basic office apps that run only in Windows (the software for interfacing with our phone system). Then I usually have a couple of Fedora Linux windows open. One for each system I'm developing and testing for our Linux servers and one which I actually do most of my work in. I'll also usually do my graphic work in OS X because Gimp runs just fine there as well as things like Illustrator and I like having the full size of the screen to do that kind of work and don't want to make my VM windows that big.
I've actually been encouraging, off and on for years, a shift in UI design in Gnome or KDE to make Linux work more like I'm using this setup. So that thre is a main tab bar that controls which project you're seeing (or if only one project is open, hides itself) and then each project is pretty much it's own little environment that could open as a window or full-screen (framed only by the projct menu bar) depending on what the user likes. Each project should see only it's own files and application windows (although in some cases projects might have the same files) and be able to be suspended and resumed without needing to do any special work. Each project would make it very easy to find the files and programs that project usually uses but other files and programs would of course still be available in them as well. It'd be very close to using VMWare. I might even suggest intergrating VMWare with the system so a project could be opened inside it's own OS when desired. Maybe certain applets, like IM and watching system usage, could be visible across projects by attaching themselves to the project menu bar or in Dashboard style. One of the biggst problems users have with their computer is that they have to many options. That doesn't mean they don't want all those options. They just don't want to see them all the time. That's why opening your web browsing project should open a screen that only shows programs and files related to your web experience. Maybe when you opened the project it'd automatically start your browser inside and if you looked at the desktop in that project all you'd see would be files you've downloaded and your bookmarks. A graphic editing project might show you Photoshop and Illustrator and show a desktop that shows all your images and your most recent graphics you'd worked on. Your game project might show all your game programs with the ones you've played most often at the top of the list and on the desktop you'd see your most recent save games (in an iTunes-like view) and maybe some available games you could join online. That sort of thing.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Quicktime doesn't play videos full screen. I think that should put it in the "trialware" category.
But they were very expensive - and you probably took care of them. If you had put those early designs into the hands of the general public, they would be destroyed within weeks. The mouse had to be made much tougher and more reliable to make a worthy commercial product. Shipping those early mouses with the Mac might have caused a huge backlash against the mouse and GUIs in general. It would have been a massive risk.
The Mac's functionality was a subset of Xerox's with some ideas Apple added. It would be many years later before Apple's computers could do everything the Xerox computers could do.Generally, usability is much more important than functionality. Which is why any other company probably would have failed at what Apple did, because they'd have people talking about features - but nobody looking at the human interaction and usability aspects. The sad thing is, most companies still haven't learned this - and Apple is still almost unique in understanding how form and function work together. Really amazing, actually. How can so many software (and electronics) companies be so ignorant, to this day?
... and then they built the supercollider.
"But they were very expensive - and you probably took care of them."
The Xerox mice were hardly coddled. They were used in labs (sometimes smoke-filled) for years.
"Generally, usability is much more important than functionality."
Sorry, but that's simply not true. Functionality is the minimum requirement for usability. In any case, Xerox played at least as key a role in the development of usable interfaces as Apple has and even Microsoft has conducted extensive usability studies.
Toshiba Portege 2000, as purchased 2002.
Sony VAIO PCV-LX800, as purchased 2000.
Ran just fine for years under 98se.
Got them sitting right over there.
XP Pro on the Toshiba, XP Home on the VAIO.
Just the few mainstream apps we need.
Horrible without being dialed down for performance.
Not faster under the next OS like our Macs have been consistently.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
> security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out
> with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody
> to do that once a month on the Windows machine.
You know what, Bill? Maybe if you get *last* month's exploit patched, and the one from three months before that, and the other one from two months before that, maybe then the 'security guys', as you call them, will start working on a new one for next month, alright?
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Well spotted, Mark, but I believe he has seen the commercial. Apple has made the whole campaign--Vista surgery commercial especially--extremely visible. In fact, the Vista surgery commercial was shown during the MacWorld keynote address in which the iPhone was introduced. If high-ranking Microsoft employees have stopped paying attention to Apple, where will they get "their" ideas for new features? More worryingly, to have not seen this commercial, Gates must have sat on his couch with his fingers in his ears singing "lalalalala" throughout the break of his favorite TV show, American Idol. That kind of public image could be devastating for him, and for the company with which his name has become synonymous.
Gates also twisted the message of Apple's campaign. Perhaps he simply took it too personally, identifying too well with Hodgman's character. He suggested that the commercial slanders Windows users, even when the first words in every commercial in the campaign are: "Hello, I'm a Mac", "And I'm a PC". That's right, Bill; the dullard isn't your customer, it's your product.
> The ad where the PC buys the Mac that C++ reference manual that he secretly lusts after himself is just so much blatant false image
..." because the other big problem Vista users are having is that they're plugging in their peripherals and only half are working, and these things all work on the Mac. So the Mac is saying "when you get back, you might have more bad news."
... the troubles he's having are the troubles you see a real PC out in the everyday world going through, except with less grace.
> building it's ridiculous. Are they implying that Mac programmers live in a glorious world where technical manuals are unnecessary?
> Or that every windows user is a technical programmer? It's ludicrous.
No, no, no. I'm a Mac user and I have technical manuals here on my desk. However they are all about graphics, not C++.
> The PC going in for surgery is another joke. At least he PC CAN be upgraded instead of simply requiring replacement for
> a major OS update.
First of all, if you want internal upgradability in a personal computer, you can't do any better than a Mac Pro. It is easy to get in there, you can swap in and out SATA drives without cables, you can replace the CPU's, the RAM, and install PCI cards. The fact that you can also buy a Mac in a notebook or an all-in-one desktop doesn't stop you from choosing the Mac that is right for you.
Secondly, the ad is specifically about what could be called "forced Vista hardware upgrades" where the user wants to upgrade his or her Windows XP to Windows Vista and nothing else, but because of Vista's high hardware requirements, MUCH MUCH HIGHER than Mac OS X, the user has to purchase a new video card and have it installed so that after that they can upgrade to Vista. Compare to a Leopard upgrade even on a 5 year old Mac you don't have to upgrade the hardware and you can run ALL the features, even though many are more advanced than Vista. You can also see the direct Vista connection in this timely ad when when the PC goes off and says "if I don't come back you can have my peripherals" and the Mac goes "speaking of peripherals
> They're great ads. Seriously, they're billiant. But they lie.
I think the reason people like them is that they find the PC to be "in character"
> I think Microsoft should fire back. With one man representing one game they should show the PC addressing a full concert hall. Then the > Mac should be addressing a hotel conference room with a bunch of empty seats. With five seats full of really old men, one should realize > he's in the wrong room and leave.
Ha ha ha that really represents the Mac community. It's five old guys, ha ha. Be sure to show the chains holding the PC's audience right there in their seats where they can be ready to answer the next little pop-up bubble "your PC may not be secure click here to find out why". Ha ha.
>Then show the PC calling in to some Microsoft-product-only connection and getting through, while the Mac gets,
> "I'm sorry - we can't help you."
At first I didn't get this because I'm so used to a world where it is easy to communicate over wires in standardized ways and interoperability is easy. Then I realized that you're bragging about how Microsoft encodes everything into its own weird formats to lock you into using only their software. Not sure that's a selling feature.
Or is it that you think the Mac is a Microsoft-free ecosystem? Actually no. We have our own Silicon Valley Microsoft Mac Business Unit, which has been publishing Word for over 20 years straight. Also Apple has the best MS Office converters around if you want to open your Microsoft files in Apple's tools.
> At least those would sort of represent reality.
Sort of is right.
> The point, of course, is that it takes being the kind of person that wants a C++ GUI programming guide to actually enjoy
... they may be very accomplished in their non-Computer Science field, and they may need to do Web and email and they need stability and security and they need a complete set of tools if they are going to get good results from their digital camera and DVD burner and blog. That stuff has to be in there already for this user.
> and really understand Windows.
No, the PC is not a user. He is a PC. The point is that C++ is what the PC is good at, what he's done historically, and what the PC knows. He can't conceive of making a photo book because he doesn't have that software. He comes with C++ developer tools but he doesn't come with iLife.
We the users are watching this drama play out, and we can easily see which is the right tool for the job.
A lot of people don't understand the concept of software, huh? You simply can't explain to them that there is a hardware thing and a software thing, or that each computer could conceivably contain an entirely unique software configuration. It is hard to explain to many users that one iMac and another might have different software installed if they look the same on the outside. If you are knowledgeable about computers you might find the idea that you can take a computer out of the box and THEN identify, procure, install a range of software tools, and only THEN get down to work to be totally awesome. Most people don't think that way, though. Whatever their computer can do when they first take it out of the box and turn it on, that is what it's going to get used for. Not just because they don't know how to actually install software, but because they don't know what software is and they don't know how to judge whether they might want to replace iPhoto with a third-party solution.
It is tempting for a technical user to look down on the above-mentioned user, but keep in mind that person might be a doctor, artist, lawyer, firefighter
Now imagine that you are the above user watching the C++ commercial and you realize "oh wow, some computers are made for photography, and some are made for programming" and sometimes that is accompanied by thinking "hey, the photography computer is for ME" because lots of people suffer under the illusion that all computers are for programming, all are made for very technical people only and everybody else has to suffer and suffer as they use them even to do basic things.
Fundamentally, what's behind this commercial is the fact that the basic software configuration and capabilities of the average Mac and PC are very different and people should know that before they buy, no matter what they buy. We are used to seeing computer spec sheets that have RAM and CPU speeds and such and we list software titles, but really what is more and more important is the stuff the box can actually do without further configuration. We all know you can radically reconfigure a Mac or PC due to tens of thousands of third-party applications but that doesn't mean that the initial configuration of software shouldn't be carefully designed, top quality stuff that acts as a foundation for whatever you add or replace. Having iLife there teaches people all about digital media and sometimes that is how they fall in love with movie making or photography, because they already have the basic tools in an easy to use high-quality versions. After a couple of years of photography you might replace iPhoto with Aperture or another tool or not but you'll never have no photo management tools at all.
Macs have cameras built-in. That is the point of the commercial. Every MacBook and MacBook Pro has a camera in it already. Every iMac since the iMac G5 about two years ago also. For Mac Pros there is an Apple camera that attaches with any one of about 5 different mounting kits it has in it, including magnets, so you can set it up so it looks great and is solidly attached so you can aim the camera or just use it without it bouncing around.
... I bought a digital camera last year and threw all the discs that came with it in the trash and took some shots and then plugged it into my Mac and boom you are in iPhoto and you're working with photographs. There was no configuration. You don't even have to look at your camera's memory as a disk or work with it in any way other than as photographs.
... even if one disk is in a camera. However on a Mac you can do photography ... working with the photographs as files and disks is optional and secondary. I would bet you there are many iPhoto users who would be surprised to find out their photos are stored as files, same as many iTunes users would be surprised that each song is a file. The interface enables you to see photographs and audio/video clips instead of files and folders.
Apple is well within their rights to pick on shitty cameras and most especially their terrible mounting systems. They make the best internal cameras and the best add-on. Go look at them.
> OK, how about the ad that claims that the PC needs special drivers for the camera, but the Mac doesn't?
No that ad is not just about drivers. Once you are just talking to the camera, that is not success. It is only the extremely low standards of the PC industry that have you thinking this is about drivers. You're saying "hey, Windows can connect to a camera! Job done!" no that is not really anything at all. A computer that can hook onto the Internet but doesn't have a Web browser is not going to work for most people even if you can ping stuff all day long.
On a Mac, when you plug in a camera, iPhoto offers to import the photos, as easily as importing a CD into iTunes. Once they are in there, you can do basic corrections like Red Eye, rotations if necessary, apply keywords, and then archive to CD or DVD, send over the Internet for printing, even design a photo book, all within iPhoto, all with the same UI and ease of use as iTunes. You're in this one window with all your photographs and you can move them around and make albums and slideshows, like iTunes playlists. To the user, there is iPhoto and there is the camera. There are no drivers, there is no software to install
Also, on a Mac you expect to open any professional image or movie or audio format and it just plays. This even extends to Camera Raw images from any manufacturer. So even though I hadn't installed any software on my Mac for my Nikon camera, I could still open its camera raw images on my Mac. These are not real digital images, but rather camera sensor data and all the camera's settings, so it is not a small thing to make them just work.
So you can clearly copy files from one disk to another with a PC
You're intentionally misrepresenting my post.
Jobs and his team went to PARC and did gain a lot of useful concepts, which they licenced from Xerox. They extended those well past the GUI at PARC into a useful and working interface. Have a look at the interface of the old Xerox machines. The Lisa and the Mac were light years ahead, but they built on the same foundation. Xerox had the basic ideas, but no ability to complete the picture.
The Macintosh project started in 1979, under Jef Raskin. While Raskin would have likely gone in a different direction with the Mac (if Jobs hadn't taken control from him), his ideas about a graphical interface shows that the direction would have been a GUI of some form.
Ok, I'll agree with you there.
I don't use QT to play full screen, and I have not needed to use QT in full screen. Like I said, I'm still new with this.
Thanks for pointing that out, though.
(Seriously, no sarcasm)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
1) That user's resource and publicly editable resources are at risk.
2) The OS may succumb to denial of service, cease to operate effectively, but should not compromise other user's data or system data (including applications).
So it is unfair to throw in 3rd party apps that trash or exploit the user's resources, but not 3rd party apps that establish rootkits, escalate privileges, and otherwise exploit weaknesses in the OS to break down those barriers.
Of course, no sooner had Microsoft started selling Windows NT than the practice of applications routinely patching or replacing outright Windows system libraries was all the rage. This sort of arrangement implicitly delegated Microsoft's responsibility for wholesome, stable system libraries to every application vendor, including competing ones with an ax to grind or chain gang programmers, as a common practice. The compatibility issues spiraled out of control. It boggles the mind. It institutionalized the weekly NT reformat/reinstall ritual. This one practice was sufficient to annihilate the system/application barrier in NT systems. It made Win32 the exploit SDK of choice for a generation of script kiddies. The NT project hired liberally from DEC VMS and UNIX system shops, where the issues were well understood from a decade of timesharing mainframe and minicomputer experience. They built up a vast and fairly sophisticated security infrastructure, and then cheerfully neutered it with this ham-handed system patch competition. They just can't help themselves.
Free Adam Smith! (Or best offer.)
I love that "getting infected with a rootkit" has become "getting rooted" because "root" is Australian slang for sex and "get rooted" is australian slang for... well, figure it out. So isn't it funny that if you turn on speech recognition on a Macroslop box you could be royally rooted up the wazoo :D
"I hope you like Guinness, Sir. I find it a refreshing substitute for, er... food." Col. Jack O'Neil, SG-1
- Your calculation of migration costs (don't forget intermediate steps of Windows plus hardware upgrades which clients have already incurred to upgrade to Win2K, WinXP, and Vista for a fair comparison)
- Downtime comparisons (Don't forget to specify your redefinition of downtime, and also specify what you mean by "maintenance windows"
- How Unix, which has been around since the early '70s, has never seen a major virus breakout like Windows has - especially since in theory the NT family of Windows is a more secure model
Until then, may I introduce you to Kettle?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Oh, come on. I have a Canon Ixus 55. Nice little camera. I plugged it into the laptop I use for work -- a compaq tc4400. Nothing happened. It took a lot of futzing around to get pictures off it. I tried the same on my MacBook at home. iPhoto opened up automatically, showed me a picture of my camera, named it correctly as a Canon Ixus 55 and asked if I wanted to import my pictures. The two user experiences were not even remotely similar in terms of ease of use. The point is not what's *technically feasible*, it's about what's *readily doable* without any fuss. There's a world of difference.
It is not up to others to dictate if this engagements are desirable or not, most likely those dictating have some emotional angagements that would appear equally ridiculous to other people.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
.... its own costumers, has some serious rethinking to do regarding its strategy.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Let me get this straight. You a a /. member and you don't have a monitor/keyboard/mouse to throw on top of a new Mac mini? I am in sales and I bet I have a half dozen of each device sitting around. You have to be kidding me.
Even with that, in the US, we can also get refurbished Intel 17" iMacs (with keyboard and mouse) for only $150 more. That is probably not an option for many outside the US-is it? Is there a robust refurbished market for Macs outside the US? I truly do not know.
The most common OS in the world is still Windows, the most popular is Linux. Windows knocked out Apple over a decade ago, they only have Linux to contend with in the OS market now.
> And, by the way, Xerox's Page Description Language (PDL) used to typeset documents with its tags, etc.,
> was the precursor to HTML. We owe a lot to PARC.
No, that's bullshit.
HTML is based on SGML, which is older than PARC.
PDL is the precursor to PostScript and then PDF, not HTML.
Further, HTML and the World Wide Web were created by Tim Berners-Lee alone on a NeXT workstation (co-designed by Steve Jobs) using NeXT's object-oriented rapid development tools (object-oriented programming being the "other" thing that Steve Jobs bought at PARC) which he credits for enabling him to even attempt to do the project because TBL is a physicist, not a coder.
And Adobe was founded to do two things: make Mac software, and sell PostScript, because the guy who made it was one of Adobe's founders, who used to work at PARC.
> So what? Nobody is denying Xerox had the basic concepts.
The mouse is like 20 years older than Xerox. Computer research didn't start there, neither did the GUI, or hypertext.
Tell me, Mr. Gates, what would you call this and this?
Funny watching a bunch of geeks arguing advertising, and immediately going to the checklist to decide if the ad is "correct".
These ads are *brilliant* marketing. They are different from most tech advertising, and thus catch the notice of viewers, and make points using language that completely avoids any heavy technological jargon, which in itself adds to the point Apple is trying to make about itself. When I see the Vista ads, I'm bored in about two seconds, they look eerily like classic IBM advertising from the late 90s. (Microsoft has become mid-70s IBM, the irony is extreme).
These ads are mostly for Apple the brand, not OS X or even Mac hardware.
I'm not sure what went wrong with your tablet PC but the PowerShot SD450 (Ixus 55) only needs drivers for Windows 2000 or earlier versions, and only for direct capture, not for image transfer. It might have been because you were using Windows XP Tablet PC Edition--I don't know much about that version since the only piece of hardware I've ever used that runs on a Tablet PC version of Windows is an Acterna TestPad. My PowerShot S400, an similar but older camera that uses CF cards instead of SD, has never, ever needed drivers for Windows XP. It doesn't even have problems with the infamous nothing-has-third-party-drivers-yet Windows Vista.
Even if the "fine print" meant something, the site still isn't satirical. There's no perspective on the thing they're allegedly satirizing. In fact, they're just aping Windows fanboyism without tweaking or questioning it. Maybe that's for lack of talent or desire. Who cares? But satire it is not.