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Bush Causes Cell Phone Ban
An anonymous reader writes "When President George Bush visits Sydney, Australia for the APEC Summit in September, all cell phone calls within the radius of a football field will be suppressed. The president's motorcade will be shadowed by a helicopter equipped with signal-jamming equipment. Terrorists have used mobile phones to detonate remote-controlled bombs in Iraq and elsewhere in the world." There are other ways to detonate explosives remotely. Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
Title should read "Al-Qaeda scare causes widespread FUD in US and Aussie govts".
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
I am sure that this isn't the only countermeasure that they are taking. Its good to publish this one, though, so people know in advance their cell phones won't work. The other counter measures probably don't affect personal electronic devices in the same manner.
http://bgcommonsense.blogspot.com
What's the legality of using signal-jamming equipment? I mean for non-presidents. Obviously, whatever the president does is always legal.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Nothing screams low key approach like a helicopter blaring above.
Wasn't Bush given a mobile phone after 9/11?
How would they inform him if a problem occurs?
liqbase
That's what we do best here in the US.
Will people be able to hear anything he says in the open with a helicopter overhead?
Oh wait that's right - it won't matter.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
The president's motorcade will be shadowed by a helicopter equipped with signal-jamming equipment.
I'm just hoping it's not black, for the sake of the tinfoil-hat crowd...
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
With the terrorists probably not using the most advanced triggering mechanisms, couldn't the jamming itself cause a bomb to go off? Anybody who understands how it all works, please comment.
Triggering Bombs by Remote Key Entry Devices
I regularly read articles about terrorists using cell phones to trigger bombs. The Thai government seems to be particularly worried about this; two years ago I blogged about a particularly bizarre movie-plot threat along these lines. And last year I blogged about the cell phone network being restricted after the Mumbai terrorist bombings.
Source
Infiltrated dot Net
Unless your talking about a really big fing bomb (which these terrorist generally don't use and if they had wouldn't need cellphones etc to use) the blast range is a few feet at best. Meaning it will receive the jamming long before there is anything interesting to blow up.
Security theater at its very best, folks... Only there may be an ulterior motive here. The Seattle WTO riots were co-ordinated via cellphone. Someone has taken the lesson to heart. Oh well, it's back to walkie-talkies for the concerned activists.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
Bush can't count that high.
--
Censored by Technorati
that's great and all but I was under the impression most serious terrorists didn't really care if they die or maybe even intent on blowing themselves up anyway.
Put this technology into cinemas.
Summation 2
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
They practically wanted to take over London when he visited. US agents were to be armed and given ridiculous powers (the we can shoot who we want and are not to be held accountable was particularly amusing). The usual visiting dignatary events were ignored and large portions of the city were closed to the public if Bush was anywhere near.
The heavy handed approach is a really good way to make a very poor impression with the citizens of nation you are visiting.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
The article forgot to mention that the president's mere presence causes plants to wilt and die within a football field's length of the president.
You're thinking of Cheney...
This guy's the limit!
Help, i need the police! The presidents motorcade is approaching and I can see a sni.. hello? hello?!
Welcome to Slashdot.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
I can tell you this - GWB can bloody keep the hell away from where I live if his presence means I can't use my mobile, what if it's an emergency call and his block means the difference between life and death?
(Disclaimer) I live in Brisbane, not Sydney, however I used to live in Sydney - then I saw the error of my ways and moved north to the land of bent coppers and cane toads.
Slackware - because apt is for the lazy.
Seriously if can't move around outside a bubble like that then maybe you should think seriously of staying home. John Howard is one of your biggest friends. It's not like you're going to a Muslim Lesbian rally in Afghanistan or anything.
You'd just need one traffic accident with someone unable to summon help because their phone was jammed...
The following occurs between 02:00 and 02:01 UT
... Hello ... HELLO"
(Presidential motorcade passing by)
Secret Service Agent: (Opens cell phone) "Hello, get me Jack Bauer.
[Insert pithy quote here]
So much for mobile phone radio frequencies interfering with saftey-critical avionics! I guess milirtary helicopters don't have the most vulneable equipment (namely the credit card readers in seatback phones).
In other news: President stung to death by bees driven into a frenzy by mobile phone radiation... (Yes, yes I know the mobile phones affect bees thing has been debuinked).
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Because #2 in the Executive Branch is terrifying.
I for one welcome our new presidential cell-phone jamming overlord. Actually, I just wish he'd go away, and not come back. And I want a refund on my taxes. Make that two of 'em.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Doesn't make sense... In Iraq, they installed cellphone jammers on the HUMV's... and it worked for about a month..
Now the bombs look for the LACK of cell phone signals to go off.
This is stupid.
You need helicopter- horsepower to carry something that has to over-ERP 3 watt cell signals for a few hundred yards?
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
There are other ways to detonate explosives remotely. Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
...
Well, this is George W. Bush we're talking about
Wonder if they'll publish the SAR rating of the jamming equipment?
I'm sure they would in America to stop all the lawsuits..
1. Develop bomb which detonates when it loses the signal
2. I want him and his entourage to wait outside my local cinema for about 2 hours while I watch a film.
Task Mangler
If there was a visit by our speaker of the house, the headline would read, "Cell Phone's blocked due to Speak of the House's visit". But it's popular to say that Bush is responsible. Not that the "visit of a President or other political figure" is responsible. When it's an unpopular leader, we make the leader responsible not the requirement for security.
so why not just set things to trigger when a signal is cut then?
I live in Sydney and I can see how the subj could appear trollish, but we've been given a one-off public holiday for this. I don't care what the fuck Bush or Howard or any of their cohorts do for just those 4 days. Howard has abolished the "Land of the Long Weekend" so lets make this a send off. As an added pinko idealistic nostalgia dream - how about us mere consu^H^H^H^H^H pions make it the start of an annual boycott from dronedom?
Mongrel News all the news that fits and froths
That this article solidly refuses the claim? (of course, you have to believe another politician from the Coalition of the Killing).
Well, Aussie Rules is played on an oval, so two radii, and they don't have a fixed size. If it's the others I'd like to know the radius of a rectangle.
1. Build bomb
2. Attach a mobile phone running windows mobile
3. Attach triggering to a process which polls a website, if it can't reach the website it sets the timer to go off in 30 seconds.
4. Jamming devices blocks cel signal..
5. 30 second countdown to detonation activates, giving enough time for the motorcade to get closer.
And letting people know about this ahead of time is the worst part... I'm not a huge fan of security through obscurity, but there's a difference between being obscure and telegraphing your methods.
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
To have Bush covered in a cone of reduced civil liberties is perhaps the most honest herald to ever signal a leader's presence.
His "legacy" practically writes itself.
Nice one. Yes, let that poor bastard with a heart attack not be able to make a 911 call.
In most countries this kind of jamming is illegal. For good reason.
If the terrorists succeeded in killing Bush we would have an interesting series of events. First most of the world, including the US would be happy (look at his approval ratings) Then, we would realize that Chaney is our new President, and the entire world would cringe...
There really isn't any need for bloodshed
Just do it with a little more finesse
If you can slip a tablet into someone's coffee
Then it avoids an awful lot of mess
I guess the point of terrorism is to make a really big bang, not just commit "murder by numbers".
Read any good sonnets lately?
This is a perfect example of what Bruce Schneier calls "movie plot security" - looks good to have black helicopters flying around but doesn't really achieve much.
y
http://www.google.com/search?q=movie+plot+securit
PS: Yes, the Madrid bombers used cell phones to detonate the bombs, but they didn't do it by calling the 'phone. They used the alarm clock function.
PPS: How till this prevent suicide bombers, etc.?
No sig today...
From TFA:
It was published in advance as a deterrent. Signal supression is not 100% effective, but because it's in the future, they can say right now that they will suppress all of it. This will trick the bad guys into thinking that it is pointless to attempt a signal detonation, and therefore more visible means of detonation will be attempted, making it easier to watch out for.
Not everyone working for the administration is stupid.
an innocent Aussie has to die because nobody could call 911 during his cardiac arrest. fuck you george bush.
FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
This doesn't even prevent all kinds of cell phone based detonations, only those that are remote controlled. For instance, in the 2004 Madrid bombing, cell phones were used as detonators, by using their alarm clock functionality and not by callig them from the distance.
Will the US mobile jamming equipment work in Australia? We use a different system to the US. Or is it a simple broadband electronic white-noise generator?
Your attitude is infectious...
Is that an American football field or an Australian Rules football field?
Seriously, though, can't we just use yards or meters? I don't know about other countries, but here in the U.S. we spend more mental energy envisioning big rotating or end-to-end football fields around or next to things.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
to build a cell phone-jammer-jammer! Get to work!
Be forewarned though, they may have thought of this and could have cell phone-jammer-jammer-jammers available.
Bruce Schneier has already commented on this and the effectiveness of such a measure. He's written about things like this before - it's interesting, once you start thinking about security related issues (especially if you read his blog, I guess :), you read an article like this and go "well, gee, I guess now The Evil Terrorists know this one particular method won't work, they can just cross it off their project plan for this particular event and focus on other more effective measures".
Also, hopefully noone has an actual emergency while this thing is going past. I'd hate for someone to have a heart attack or be trying to call in a fire or something and not be able to use their cell phone. Or dial for the police in case they see suspicious people near the motorcade. You know, like people with beards.
I hear this suggested periodically, and it's, simply put, a very poor idea, that's not been thought through at all.
There are a lot of us who DO really have to have cellphones and pagers active 24x7, who are also smart and polite enough to put them on vibrate only, and to leave the theater if we need to respond. And, no, I'm not just talking geeks. That includes members of the medical and law enforcement professions, as well, where receiving an unexpected page or call really may be critical, and yes (not trying to be melodramatic), might just save someone's life.
Stop thinking technology is the answer to what is a SOCIAL problem. Grow a spine, and hold people responsible for their actions and their effect upon others around them, rather than trying to hide behind a bad technological band aid.
The answer is NOT to restrict the use of technology for those who use it properly, but to throw the asshats who are disruptive out of the theater, regardless of whether or not they happen to have a phone, or a pager.
(God forbid that anyone should actually have any personal responsibility, or actually have to confront someone obnoxious.)
</rant>
We now return you to your regularly scheduled pithy remarks about the idiocy of using this technology to attempt to protect a man so (deservedly) loathed that they think something like this might actually be necessary. I, of course, refer to the continuing dissemination of FUD, not the jamming, per se.
Who, in his autobiography, admitted to lying to animal shelters so that he could adopt their cats, take them home, vivisect and kill them.
Of course, it's also possible that you're not thinking at all, that you're trying to use "Slashdot thinks Republican leaders would kill kittens" as some sort of slur against Slashdot, because you didn't know that until a few months ago Senate Republicans were in fact led by a man who killed kittens. For future irony, I suggest accusing the anti-Bush crowd of thinking that Bush would illegally wiretap our phones without search warrants or that Cheney would shoot a guy in the face.
So place the trigger phone half a football field ahead, and run some cable (or use wireless on a different frequency) to the bomb.
Only difficulty now is how big is a "football field" - is that american football, aussie rules, soccer, imperial or metric...
Can we mod-down article titles? "Ban" is completely inaccurate. Reading the title you immediately envision Secret Service guys barging through the crowds, confiscating cell phones from people. When did /. become a sensationalist news source? Have they been receiving advertising dollars from the National Inquirer?
Error:
When I can't talk on my phone while drinking a cup of coffee, and reading the paper, and watching TV, while driving to work in my SUV... the terrorists have won.
Unless your talking about a really big fing bomb (which these terrorist generally don't use and if they had wouldn't need cellphones etc to use) the blast range is a few feet at best. Meaning it will receive the jamming long before there is anything interesting to blow up.
Imagine a terrorist got a Javelin launcher, and a nice spot to shoot from (which for the Javelin is just about anywhere). A Javelin follows its target electronically, so the terrorist can move immediately after launching the missile, before it hits the target, and the missile itself strikes top down and can blow up a whole tank.
What I'm trying to get at, you can't stop anyone who wants to kill Bush, so maybe he should just give up and resign from the job.
Now, don't even try to find logical fallacies in my construction up there, I don't like that.
So America has finally wizened and have sent Bush to a penal colony. Good on ya, Mates!
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Because they want the bomb to go off as the President approaches, when the cameras are trained on him - not afterward. The idea is that it would blow up close enough for him and the world to see on TV, yet far enough away that it doesn't pose any significant risk to the President. That way, they get the best of both worlds - protection for the President, and another bargaining chip for escalating the "War on Terror".
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Design bomb which triggers a few secs after a call is broken. You know the president will be less than 50yds away.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
...all cell phone calls within the [b]radius of a football field[/b] will be suppressed.
Seriously, wtf?
Cell services near his path of travel was turned off for about 6 hours.
If you delay pleasure infinitely, the pleasure will be infinite. (YM)
Sshhh!!
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
a cell phone is going to have the best range of any improvised detonator, so it makes sense to eliminate that possibility first. Other sorts of transmitters, like taken out of cheap R/C toys are simply not going to have the range.
it is possible to modify a simple AM radio to receive CB signals with a modification of its antenna coil. then maybe attach a DTMF decoder on it to use as a key for your bomb. but again, this is beyond the level of sophistication your typical terrorist (or so it seems). but the evidence of such a transmitter setup (especially if you hooked it up to equipment to dramatically improve its range) is quite incriminating.
An ordinary wrist watch is a simple way to set it off remotely. but if you're looking to assassinate a particular person you would want it to go off when it was near your bomb. and a watch is not going to cut it.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
No, *security concerns* caused it.
Bush just happens to be president at the moment.
Geesh.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Who says anything coming from that corner is smart? Quite the opposite I would say - dumbness on a global scale.
The Power of Nightmares:
I: Baby It's Cold Outside
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/3755686.stm
II: The Phantom Victory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/3951615.stm
on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGO1CnkxCVw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9d7iKHjwqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrc4glIBD9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLLFQ3zepME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxZqscxHVp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHaB_mZipTk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obTnbCJLr9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRgGNBxHLWE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUfFzmXsmBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbfKOYWosvU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6KggR0q9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUSNN1B9RIU
I think that's an incredible waste of money and way too easy to track back (where and who bought it etc.). I think a better idea is to go with a remote control (they are incredibly cheap) and if you know cell phone or other jammers are going to be used, tune in on the frequency the jammer is going to be used with an LC-circuit and wait for a very powerful signal to come along. Costs you maybe $3...
Am I going to be arrested now?
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
to the people of Sydney from a US citizen. You can help your American cousins out -in a small way- by complaining bitterly about your government's acquiescence to Bush's security demands. The man views himself as more or less an absolute monarch. He is a real danger to us and the rest of the world.
Hopefully there is no bridge between detinations.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Not to mention in a massive crowd all you need to do is fire a shot at the guy and then duck down in 'fear' and throw the gun to the side some where and you've just killed the guy and look completely innocent other than you maybe kind of look Arabic if you're even that colour.
People forget the simple method is best. It takes the least planning, least chance of being caught and has the best chance of death.
I like muppets.
What if it works backwards? When it can't make a call, it triggers?
Kernel Krunch - Part of a Complete OS
it's that the terrorist will use his cell phone, attach an encryption device, make a phone call to a BBS, punch in some codes in the cell and take over the entire CIA/NSA/ security system, and use the security system to direct a satellite to throw a missile off course that will hit the target with lots of innocent lives (children) taken as a result.
Far MORE terrifying is Cheney dying in office due to heart failure and Speaker of the House Nancy "Lugosi" taking over. *shudder*
So yeah, I'm VERY VERY glad that they are taking every possible precaution to keep Bush alive. If your teenager can't text her "bff jill" for a few minutes too bad. Just think of it as a "Presidential discount" on your cell phone bill.
Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
Can't the jammer's signals set off the explosives too?
I spent five minutes stealing cool sigs and all I got was this.
Many attacks are done with cell-phones. In general, they use either the alarm or call.
g control f mobile). In London the theory is that they used the alarm clock and didn't call (although I'm not sure, there was no unexploded phone there AFAIK).
In the madrid train bombing they used the alarm clock and didn't call (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Train_Bombin
However, with a train, you can be fairly certain about the time you want the phone to explode. With a president, you don't really know at what time he will be at a specific location. You probably don't have access to the stage, so you want to hit him somewhere on his way or near the crowd. With an alarm this is very hard, with some remote device it is a lot easier.
It is of course possible to use another remote detonator, but since recent western world attacks have been done with mobile phones, it's pretty sensible to just jam the signal.
(and yes, they could still use some other method, but at least they have cut out some obvious ones with this method)
It's going to suck for them if the helicopter's jamming sets off a bomb.
Question everything
If we ban cell phones only terrorists will have cell phones. Join the National Cell Phone Association (NCPA) today!
That's right, no protests, no applause.
Silence.
I'm a code monkey
Remember the shoe bomber? That's really more of the intelligence level of the guys we're dealing with here. Not quite as bright as the average slashdotter.
I play a lot of RPG games and war simulations, and I'm a BSEE. I know I could come up with better inside of five minutes.
As for the cell phone jamming, my thinking is this. The jammer is not in the helicopter. The helicopter is an obvious target to draw anyone out. Someone who wished to attack W at this time would read the article and think, "Aha! The jammer is in the helicopter. Shoot down the copter, then dial in the bomb. Simple!"
Odds are, the jammer will be in the convoy and not the copter. The copter will be there as a decoy. Someone hits the copter, you know bad things are afoot and it's time to leave.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
With domestic approval in 20s and 30s, exactly how popular does he think he is outside?
Even in puppet states like Australia: The government may fawn all over him, but the public does not.
you had me at #!
"What I'm trying to get at, you can't stop anyone who wants to kill Bush, so maybe he should just give up and resign from the job."
Wrong. You can't stop *everyone* who wants to kill bush, assuming infinite. It is child's play to stop one person - look for the guy with the big missile launcher and arrest him before he can get a lock. Stopping anyone is easy. Stopping everyone is the challenge.
Oh, and so far the secret service has a pretty good record. One presidential death since they have been guarding presidents, and two failed attempts that got as far as shooting. Not to mention the countless other attempts they have nipped in the bud. And for our current president they seem to be doing a good job, seeing as most of the world hates bush and yet he lives on.
Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
"Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance."
/.
Yeah, they might as well announce it on the front page of
-- Boycott Shell
If they tell in advance that your mobiles won't work near the prez, you get "is this a good idea to let potential attackers know?". If you don't, you get a "what if an emergency happened and you couldn't call?".
I'm all FOR informing people about this. Because I deem the potential threat of a medical emergency that can't be responded to higher than the threat that someone kills a muppet.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There are other ways to detonate explosives remotely. Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
It depends on what your objectives are.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
Helicopter, you say? So they'll need both an RPG and an IED.
.50 BMG and an IED.
Or a
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
I'm pretty sure that the only way Pelosi would get a promotion to the executive branch is if the president and vice president both die at the same time. If Cheney dies in office, Bush would replace him (my guess would be with Gonzales).
They tried to fit one when he visited the UK. But for once we refused. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,690 3,1086397,00.html
Of all the presidents to successfully defend...
Come on Secret Service, throw us a frickin' bone here!
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
Let's rig the detonator so it holds off until it *loses* cellular signal before detonating the bomb. That way it's even easier, explosives can be planted well in advance and by the time the motorcade passes near them, the perpetrator is well on his way back home.
Time for some "prior restraint of trade" lawsuits...:D
Except the technology needs a little modification: blow up a bomb when ANY call is received.
Well, the first problem is that if the bomb is already near the president, why not use a normal, analog phone, like all that old 007 movies?
;-)
Hum... and what about the good and old cigar technique?
Hum... a trigger that is activated by sound?
Hum... maybe a laser line crossed by a leg? All you need is a five dollars laser pen and a 1 dollar sensor, cheaper than a cell phone...
Hum... what about opening a door with a small switch? or placing a virus on the ventilating system! If it is near enough this can be done! heheh...
Oh man... its too easy to kill the president.
normal people who work along that path, say bike couriers will need to know about the outage. Some people depend on cellphones for their jobs, so this is important to them. I guess terrorists might say that terror is their job, but thats hard to convince me on... (wheres the $$?) So protect and help lots of average people but warn the terrorists to start working on another type of detonator ... hmm...
I'd say that they are doing it the right way.
You want what? by when? Sorry we haven't finished the time travel project yet... that's next week.
They should have kept quite about that. Any would-be assassins are now fitting their bombs with Moron-Detectors instead.
Just shoot the explosives.
This type of argument is old.
Here's an article from theregister from october 2004.
summary: France allows mobile phone jaming in cinemas as long as you can still dial emergency numbers.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/12/french_mo
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
Just another opportunity to Bush-Bash.
If they didn't announce this, then people would flame the admin for being secretive.
When they do announce it, they are flamed for being paranoid and infringing our rights and crap like that.
I disapprove of some of the Bush admin policies as much as the next person, but the Bush flaming gets old.
Why are we not discussing the type of jamming technologies used by the government and which frequencies they may/may-not be jamming?
Because I'd love to carry it around in a backpack or something and never see morons at the store blabbing on their cellphones again. That would be great!
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
you brit bush-lovers!
"When President George Bush visits Sydney, Australia for the APEC Summit in September, all dissent within the radius of a 5km of the visiting dignitary will be suppressed with immediate lethal force. During the days of the visit, curfew will begin one hour earlier and last one hour longer.
Kids! Parents! Let's give Mr. Bush a cheery welcome to Australia! Additional chocolate rations have been approved for minors under the age of 16 wishing to cheer President Bush, these will be available after each event. Adults will receive $10 for each cheering event, please contact your police department for further details."
It's not an issue, it's an interesting technical news story. A helicopter flying overhead jamming cell phones? Neat! I could give a fuck that it's for that douchebag, Bush. It's a dumb move, dumber since they've said what they're doing, and it won't protect the man from anything. But it's still a helicopter flying overhead jamming cell phones, which is still an interesting story for nerds of any political stripe.
It's just a CYA move by his security team. Cellphones have been used to trigger bombs? We'll jam cellphones, then. Nobody wants to be the guy who gets the president blown up because they didn't cover something obvious. That's kind of a career ending move.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Legislative branch writes laws Executive branch enforces laws Judiciary branch applies laws The police, president and army are all parts of the executive branch.
This guy is just a fucking popularity magnet.
Why bother.
Don'tcha get tired of this? Ignore it all ya like, but there have been dozens of real, dangerous terrorist attacks thwarted locally. Get over it; there are bigger problems than a Republican in the White House.
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
I don't understand what people have against Nancy Pelosi. Most of the world would consider her a centrist. What exactly has she done that you don't like?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
This does not help against my most favourite weapon, the water balloon. Unseen by metal detectors, blast radius 1m, approximate range 2-10m. Can surpass fences and walls through clever use of gravitational effects. Very effective as a drop weapon as it explodes on impact. Transforms kinetic energy into splash damage. Unfortunately, anybody that uses it will most likely be killed by a paranoid American.
Open Source Alternatives
Remember! Disparaging The Boot is a Bootable offense.
Bush has one of the best security measures against assassination ever:
Vice President Dick Cheney.
great -- now the terrorists have a perfect way to detect his arrival.
just use the jammer to trigger the bomb (offset by a couple minutes,
to ensure he's entered well within range) -- duh.
I used to work in the media and cover presidential events. The Secret Service makes it well known they are there and doing their job. They want to be seen and let you know you're being watched. Cells can be used to remotely trigger devices and also offer recon.
And who would you alert? Do you have a hotline number to the secret service?
I doubt that calling 9-1-1 would get you anywhere before shit hit the fan. By the time you've indicated you want to talk to the cops, then giving your personal details, sat on hold, and waiting to be connected through the presidential aircraft would be a smoking ruin, or the bad-guys would already be full of bullets.
Quote from: http://www.monthlyreview.org/1299dela.htm when Bill Clinton came to New Zealand for APEC.
The desire to make this a profitable and publicity-rich event was not fulfilled, even in the beginning. The technology of U.S. secret service agents, who arrived to monitor the event and protect the President, was somewhat fallible. A week before the President arrived, Saji Phillips, a chicken farmer from South Auckland, found his fax machine loaded with messages from the U.S. APEC Support Office. They informed him about security arrangements, such as the installation of White House communications equipment at Auckland airport and the code name and security number of a military officer. Phillips rang the Support Office and told them about the error, but still received messages for many days, finally going to the press to try to get some relief from faxes that weren't about chickens.
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
US measure has always been popular because we relate to it.
A foot... was actually the measurement of someone's foot.
A cup... was actually the measurement of the amount of liquid that fit in a cup.
A teaspoon, a tablespoon...
A bushel, a barrel... well you get the idea.
A gallon just sounds like a lot... Pour a gallon of anything over anyone's head and they'll probably have to change clothes.
A mile just sounds real far... Is 37C real hot? Dunno, but I'm pretty sure 98.6F is.
But the usage of football field as a measurement...
I'd like to blame that on Chuck Bednarik. I don't know why. I'm almost positive he had nothing to do with it.
Some movie theaters have considered shielding theaters from any/all cell phone signals (not actively jamming, just lining them with shielding). If I remember correctly, it had questionable legality because doctors who are on call typically pack cell phones or pagers. If jamming phones (in the case of on-call doctors) is questionably legal in a movie theater, I can't imagine it *not* being of questionable legality to do the same in a stadium.
If there was a hospital nearby, and it was affected by the jamming, I can't see how that *wouldn't* be illegal, regardless of the above.
I guess when you've managed to piss off a large potion of the world, you need to take drastic measures like this.
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
I do wonder whatever became of this
Bush? Isn't that guy from the home of the brave and land of the free? Sounds like we need an advertising campaign to change the tag.
Just use a pulse lazer as a trigger, you an instal a lazer on any roof far enough from the road, aim it at the detonator photoresistor...
You can't handle the truth.
Except for that whole metal detector thing, and the general security around the President 24 hours a day. This isn't 1981 anymore, and it's much harder to get close enough to the President while carrying a gun than it used to be. Simple, yes. Effective, not likely. Points for thinking like a real assassin, though. This whole "terrorist" thing is just a big pile of shit.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
Seriously, why would anyone wanting to harm US interests ever want to assassinate Bush? He's the biggest threat to US interests in a long time. He's doing everything perfectly to turn the world against us and bring the "enemy" more cannon fodder for their armies. He's a terrorist's wet dream. He's easily manipulated, power-happy, and has something to prove, to himself, to his father, to the world. What more can you ask as a hate-monger?
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
a US Football field is 360 feet. A soccer field is 90-120 meters. And there are many more 'football' field definitions! There is a lot of room for error here! Details!
"If you are on fire you can just stop, drop, and roll. If you fall into Lava you are just dead." - my 5yr old daughter
Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
Yeah, don't these incompetent morons know that that's the New York Times' job!
The other methods are more easily detectable, with air-sampling robots and explosives-sniffing dogs.
The standard method uses timer cord to set off charges, but an ingenious person could set up a solar-powered device triggered by a remote laser if they thought about it for three minutes and invested $100 for scope, industrial magnifying square, and photovoltaic linker for the cap.
But, hey, what do I know, I only used to be a combat field engineer.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I built a land line phone based trigger for project in college. Are they going to block prevent all phones from being used? how about garage door openers, car door openers, lasers etc.. Hell I'm not even that smart and I can think of 1/2 a dozen ways to get around that. Why don't they just put his ass in a bullet proof golf cart? It was good enough for the pope.
At a local bookstore, I saw what I call an "aviation fan" magazine: boatloads of photos and trivia. It mentioned the EA-6B jammer plane was being used in Iraq to defeat IEDs, as opposed to the usual roles. The difference is a helo can tag along with a motorcade more easily than a fixed-wing aircraft.
The clearance system sounds logical. It is not. It is completely arbitrary. -- John Bolton
I built a land line phone based trigger for project in college. Are they going to block all phones from being used? how about garage door openers, car door openers, lasers etc.. Hell I'm not even that smart and I can think of 1/2 a dozen ways to get around that. Why don't they just put his ass in a bullet proof golf cart? It was good enough for the pope.
sad thing is, carl rove could spin this into a positive thing!
Being oncall 24x7 isn't a matter of hubris. It's often a dictate of a specific job.
And, yes, sometimes, those people are very hard to replace. Do you think there's a neuro-surgeon, or a member of a rapid response hostage rescue team on every corner, perhaps? Being on-call doesn't mean not having a life. It means finding a balance between life and specific job responsibilities.
The point is that the suggestion to jam phones is trying to solve the wrong problem. Cell phones and pagers are NOT the problem -- rude, thoughtless PEOPLE are the problem.
By trying to solve the wrong problem, you only make it harder for reasonable people to actually try to maintain that balance. The rude, thoughtless people, however, are still going to be disruptive, even if they don't have a working cell phone.
"If Cheney dies in office, Bush would replace him"
That'd be a neat trick considering the fact that for Cheney to be in office, Bush would either have to be dead or so severely incapacitated that he was unable to function as president (yes, I know a lot of people think he fits that definition already!). Is there an official federal medium, or would Congress hold a seance with an Ouija board to find out who Bush wanted to replace Cheney with?
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
The only thing you need to teach a human being is that age old, seldom used technique called "critical thinking". This type of thinking is "teach a man to fish" where those you mentioned are closer to "give a man a fish". Once critical thought is mastered, a person can learn without BEING taught.
And it really isn't that hard.
Are they going to jam VHF? You know,the radios that all the emergency responders like police, fire and ambulance use to communicate. Any half decent radio tech can add a dtmf decoder package to a hand-held vhf radio and make a jim-dandy remote detonator. A wee little vhf walkie talkie can easily range 5 miles even in the city. Hit the push-to-talk, key in *123 to arm and #456 to detonate.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
So...
If someone is serious about causing problems, their options would really be limited. A device that needs to be triggered, can be setup to be triggered by the passing by of a certain metal mass ala megnetic ocean mines. Heavy armored cars meet such criteria as a potential trigger.
Standard gas attacks will work on the crowds, so even if the primary target isn't vulnerable, soft targets around him/her will be, causing a diversion.
A well placed charge to collapse a building in front of, behind, or onto the motorcade will be workable, despite signal jamming, as trigger can be done via wires, IR, WIFI, CB+TONE, landline phone call, etc.
The fact is... given enough time, enough mental second guessing, ANYTHING is possible. You do the best you can to guard against known dangers and prepare against them. You can't prepare for what you don't know about or have knowledge/understanding of. The US Govt has a good understanding of tech and tactics used, so I'm pretty sure their defenses will be enough to repel any attack. Nice PR/Marketing, though, with the "heli with a jammer". Since multiple cell towers cover a region, the amount of energy required to block out a football field sized area would be quite enormous. I'm sure such a helicopter can be rigged for this, but would it be practical? :/
Winged Power Photography
This is in response to the last statement that the plans shouldn't be revealed because it would inform the terrorists. You can't just ban cell phones in a large area and not tell anyone. If Bush is there then there will be other people with security interests that rely on cell phones. If any other politicians are around they need to make arangements for other forms of communication etc. The media will need to act accordingly as well. In any event its probably a waste of time anyways.
Cheney is already in office. Specifically, the office of Vice President of the United States. The term "in office" is used rather frequently to refer to elected officials other than the president.
Doesn't seem like the smartest thing to let potential enemies know of such plans in advance.
It's not for the enemies. Let's face it: reasonably smart people who want to cause destruction usually can, and there's not that much we'll ever be able to do about it. I doubt anyone involved in the cell phone jamming plan thinks it would seriously hinder an attack. My guess is that it's just marketing: keep showing outward signs that we're "smart and prepared". Most people will feel more secure reading this, so mission accomplished.
Cheers.
It should be "Yippee! Slashdot Editors Find Yet Another Excuse to Bash Lame Bush Administration"...from the 'because-it's-too-fucking-easy' department.
Kickass Cheap Web Hosting
Explode when signal dies :)
You don't even have to have personnel to be present.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
The Americans can be trusted to bring equipment that jams 1900 and 850 Mhz CDMA, leaving the GSM 1800 and 900 bandwidth working perfectly.
And yes, I know Telstra runs a CDMA network somewhere in the outback, but this is Sydney we're talking about.
Seen through the looking glass: Silly Americans, don't you know stealth bombers are for kids? When they realize they can't do it remotely, the marines will "medal of honor" themselves to get the job done. That's the insidiousness of the American Imperialists. Seriously, I expect to see lazy terms like 'Islamic Fascists' on Fark.com, not on Slashdot. The fact that an American President cannot feel safe in the country of one of his most staunchest ally is telling isn't it? Soldiers fighting for a cause and who believe in it will frequently sacrifice their own life to get the job done. Does that makes them 'Fascists'? And don't get me started on civillian casualties or 'collateral damage'.
When Bush visited Argentina last year, I saw this black truck with huge black antennas. When the Air Force One was landing, some channels had only a video feed, and the journalists on site were speaking through cell phones. When bush was about to get off the plane, all cell phones were disconnected at once, on all channels. Live TV is so cool :)
OK, so now the bad guys just have to wire an embedded roadside bomb that detonates when it STOPS receiving an otherwise uninterruped signal in the cell-phone frequency range. I'll bet most of us could wire that in under two cups of coffee.
As another savvy commenter has already pointed out, there are instances where this sort of jamming could set off roadside bombs, rather than prevent them from being set off (which would only change who was harmed, rather than prevent harm.) And, just as in any arms race, there are now instances where garage door openers are being used as trigger devices, which this type of jamming would have no effect upon.
This is not about whether Muffy gets her 3 pm phone call from her boyfriend Biff. This is about announcing a tactic specifically intended to promote Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It's not about protecting the man. If they were really interested in protecting him, they wouldn't announce they were going to be jamming cell signals, they'd just do it, rather than give advance warning that a different trigger method might have more efficacy, and then, if you heard anything about it at all, it would be some story on the news about a temporary glitch in the phone networks or maybe even a cell tower virus that was identified and stopped.
It's straight out of Orwell, with 1984 being used as a 'how to' guide to heard the general population into doing what they're told, instead of stopping to think about how rapidly their rights are being stripped away.
Last time I checked, Australia wasn't exactly a boiling cauldron of amorphous, violent, insurgent activity attempting to repel a foreign invasion. Nor was it characterized as a hotbed of Al'Quaida activity, with enemies at every turn.
Again, this isn't about the technology. This is entirely about perception management.
..the stock of alarm clock manufacturers just went up.
Just make the bombs go off due to the jamming signal instead.
It's impossible to bring a building like WTC7 down just like that without damaging neighboring buildings.
The people who do that kind of work are highly paid professionals and they take weeks to months of planning
and preparing. The neighboring buildings next to WTC7 were left intact.
Btw the interesting thing is that now we're discussing how they "pulled" WTC7 when only a couple of weeks
people like you would scoff at the "wild conspiracy theory" that WTC7 was "pulled". I'm sure most people
will take note of that.
Here follow these links and read up on the subject.
http://www.wtc7.net/
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc7.html
I happen to live near a private airport on the west coast used by jet setters, dignitaries, and the military. What I've noticed is that none of the civilian traffic comes near my house though every time a dignitary (or military jet) comes to town, my house is right under the flight path. When a dignitary is nearby, not only does my cell phone stop working but so does the low and upper ends of FM radio (where my NPR stations sit). Were it not for the fact that this generally seems to happen when the helicopters fly over I would just chalk it up as a brief fluke as opposed to a planned service outage. What would be really interesting is to know how broad the spectrum jamming is. Does it effect IR or UV as well as these specific radio bands?
1) Attach bombs to herd of hungry goats.
2) Spray passing limo with something smelly goats love.
3) Release herd of goats with 5 second delay!
4) Record video for worldwide distribution.
5) Call it "The Herd Shot Wounds the Whirled!"
Wild conspiracy theories? This was on the news on 9/11. Don't you remember?
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Your sig "What I tell you 10,000 times is true." says it all.
The intentional demolition of WTC7 was still a wild-ass conspiracy theory just a couple of weeks
ago, the official story being that structural damage to WTC7 from the collapse of the towers
led to the collapse of WTC7. I invite everyone to visit the sites I mentioned before and make
up their own minds. As far as you are concerned Evil Crumb I have had page spanning discussions
with people like you before and they're not worth the effort. So this is my last post in this thread.
You can engage me in another thread but try to make it a little more interesting and worthwhile
next time.
Yes I heard that on the news a couple of days ago, personally I think it's bullshit since it's not hard to work out that blocking RF is a standard SS practice for Bush & co's motorcades.
It's also interesting to note the fact that people in certain city blocks will be subject to RANDOM BODY searches doesn't engender outrage from our mass media.
Canberra is our capital and the meeting should have been held there. That way even if the terrorists drop a nuke on the city nobody will really care.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
You obviously don't live in the UK and have no experience at all of what the IRA were up to and how they operated, had the IRA had nerve gas or nukes there is little doubt in my mind they'd have been just as likely to use them as any Islamist group.
The IRA were more than happy to kill civilians, basically on the grounds they were English. I live in Birmingham and we all still remember the Birmingham pub bombings here so please don't try to tell me that the IRA are not a terrorist organisation or that they didn't pose more of a threat to me than the Islamic terrorists do.
Someone above has already posted some stats about the IRAs activities but please feel free to google for more information yourself.
Read the GP post for the definition that poster used or "office", i.e. why people would be anxious to keep Bush alive, hence his fear of Pelosi becoming acting president. It is for this reason the the reply to it was utterly stupid, and thoroughly deserved to be highlighted as such.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Here's a hint: not everyone who hates the guy wants to personally kill him. Many people would celebrate if he died, and many would gladly piss on his grave given the opportunity, but that's a far cry from actually killing him yourself.
butter the donkey
Okay, so "Cheney dies in office" was referring to after Bush was already gone. I can see how it you would read that way. That still wouldn't make Pelosi president, unless Cheney died so soon after Bush that he didn't have time to select a new vice president. My point was to clarify that a president dying doesn't give everyone in the line of succession a promotion, i.e. the Speaker of the House does not become vice president.
Terrorists have been known to use shaped charges in small bombs to assasinate individuals. They've also been known to pack delivery trucks full of explosives much more potent than tim mcveigh's efforts - not that he wasn't a terrorist.
The disclosure is interesting in that it's yet another tip-off from the media to the terrorists - the same sort of thing that cause us to lose track of bin laden when he stopped using his sat. phone.
"My point was to clarify that a president dying doesn't give everyone in the line of succession a promotion, i.e. the Speaker of the House does not become vice president"
It appears that the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 says the chain of succession is President->Vice President->Speaker (with a whole bunch of others who in their turn succeed them), so the original poster was right in saying that Pelosi would become Acting President if Cheney died after succeeding Bush.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Why? Why is that guy (bush) alive? I'm not saying that I wish he was dead, which I do, but I consider kind of off topic, but why, if terrorists are SO dangerous haven't he been taken out in his trips to, say, Latin America?
I mean, you don't even need a bomber.. a not-even-that-well-placed sniper could take him out any day, and it'd be much harder to detect and stop than a bomber, if he was willing to die for it.
or a suicide bomber, since that's the topic.. Islamic people aren't afraid of dying for their god or whatever..
This proves they're smarter than they (not Islamic "them" but American "them") think.. they are afraid of represalies... or whatever the word is. So, it comes to reason, if Bush is still alive, he won't die from a terrorist attack, unless it's a rouge Arab gone berserk, and if this happens, a stupid jamming signal won't do any good.
It's as Shevek said... laws are stupid and useless. Would you kill me? no. And if you WOULD.. would a law stop you from doing it? NO.
Again, the original poster would only be correct if Cheney died before a new vice president was selected, which I would guess wouldn't take more than a week or two. Wikipedia explains it quite clearly, including how it was applied during the Nixon administration.
"Again, the original poster would only be correct if Cheney died before a new vice president was selected"
It isn't a case of "again", because you originally denied that this could occur, so you aren't reiterating anything.
"Wikipedia explains it quite clearly"
I don't care what Wikipedia says about anything. It is the product of a Beowulf cluster of idiots, and is only useful for finding lists of references which aren't other Wikipedia articles or somebody's blog.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Ron Paul is the only person running that stands true to his philosophy. You can verify that by checking hsi voting record:
He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.
He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.
Libertas in infinitum
This happens wherever he goes.
sometimes, nothing.
As an Australian, I can honestly say that I do not want the current mess of political office holders reducing _my_ convenience just because bloody Bush has pissed off three-quarters of the planet. Personally, I'd tell him that he could fly in economy class like everyone else - with plenty of attention from the rubber-gloved airport 'security' he's responsible for encouraging - and catch a bloody taxi. And none of those jumped-up American security guards allowed in, either. He can take his chances.
I'm sorry that you don't understand how succession works in the executive branch. If Wikipedia isn't an authoritative enough source on something like the text of constitutional amendments, would you accept Cornell University?
"I'm sorry that you don't understand how succession works in the executive branch"
You seem to be a very confused individual. I have yet to see a single source cited by you that in any way contradicts what the original poster or I have written, i.e that the Speaker is next in line after the VP, and therefore could become president on the event of his death.
"If Wikipedia isn't an authoritative enough source"
Texts that can be edited at any time by people with an agenda isn't an authoritative source on anything. A large number of articles in Wikipedia have been conclusively shown to be utter rubbish, so it cannot therefore be trusted on anything.
"would you accept Cornell University?"
Indeed I would,, especially as it doesn't contradict anything I've written. Note phrases such as "Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office _upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress_". What happens if one or both houses repeatedly reject the nominations, and the President (i.e. the prior Vice President) dies before he can nominate someone they'd accept? This isn't exactly unlikely considering how the current Democrat-controlled Congress would react to the sort of person that Cheney would be likely to nominate. This would mean that the chain of succession comes into play, and the Speaker (Pelosi) becomes President, and then gets to nominate a VP, who the Democrat-controlled Congress would vote to accept in a heartbeat.
Whichever way you try and slice, dice, or liquefy it, the fact of the matter is that Cheney's health isn't in good, and he's even less popular with both the Democrats and the public than Bush. If he ever became President because of Bush's death, they'd make his life as difficult as they possibly could because they'd reckon they had a public mandate to do so, which means that he'd be under a hell of a lot more stress, thus magnifying the likelihood of him either dying or becoming too incapacitated to continue (the mere thought that Democrat delaying tactics could result in Pelosi becoming President might well be enough to kill him outright!).
NB: republics whose heads of state are part of the party political framework can have notable problems with succession when there's as much bad blood between parties as is currently the case in the US. A lot of Democrats seem to have a venomous hatred for Bush, and utterly detest Cheney, so the probability of them doing everything (legitimately) possible to get rid of him in the event that Bush was unable to continue in office is I think pretty high.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
"When I first read that, I read it as Cheney dying in the office of vice president."
I can see how it could easily be interpreted in that way.
"Maybe that was an incorrect reading, and it meant Cheney dying in office after Bush was already gone."
This is the way I read it, i.e. Bush dies, becomes incapacitated, gets impeached, or is otherwise unable to continue as President, so Cheney takes over, and then himself becomes unable to fulfil the duties of the office before Congress has accepted his nomination for VP.
"Maybe that's what the original post meant, but it wasn't at all clear on that point. While the original post may not be technically "wrong", it is certainly lacking some important details."
Well, to be fair, the original poster was simply pointing out a (to him rather horrific) possible implication of Cheney's notably fragile health in a fairly humorous way (hence the Nancy Logosi bit). I don't think he intended to provoke a serious discussion of the related US constitutional issues, and neither did I intend such with my reply.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.