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BioShock Installs a Rootkit
An anonymous reader writes "Sony (the owner of SecureROM copy protection) is still up to its old tricks. One would think that they would have learned their lesson after the music CD DRM fiasco, which cost them millions. However, they have now started infesting PC gaming with their invasive DRM. Facts have surfaced that show that the recently released PC game BioShock installs a rootkit, which embeds itself into Explorer, as part of its SecureROM copy-protection scheme. Not only that, but just installing the demo infects your system with the rootkit. This begs the question: Since when did demos need copy protection?"
Here we go again. *sigh*
- Aetheral Research -
I won't be buying. I was looking forward to this one, too.
Demos require protection since the day that someone found out that if they hacked the demo and compared it to the original, they could simply replace some parts of the original from the same parts of the demo and have a free-for-all.
(That doesn't mean that I endorse Sony's approach here -- far from it)
HTH, HAND
The author even admits that he's just trying to get search engine traffic in the comments. It uses SecureROM, which regardless of your feelings on it, is mis-detected by Microsoft's Rootkit detection program. He even says in the main article it's not malware.
Answer: Since demoss can be cracked... IE, a very long time.
I though to play BioShock you already had to have Windows Vista?
Not that I would play this game, but it would be nice to have some links to detectors and removal of this type program.
If you RTFA, or specifically its comments, you find that it's not technically a rootkit that it installs, it's just a registry directory that contains a * and so a rootkit detector tags it. It's just a very hard to remove registry directory, and not necessarily an actual rootkit qua rootkit.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
"This begs the question: Since when did demos need copy protection?"
I think you mean, "poses the question", or "raises the question".
I think you confused "raising the question" with the well-known logical fallacy, "begging the question"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question
*Sighs*
The plural form of "anecdote" is "anecdotes", not "evidence".
The article author seemed to base his conclusion on the fact that the SecureROM software installs a registry key that can't be deleted by normal means. This pops up on the Microsoft Rootkit Revealer (since that's a technique used by rootkits as well.) That's like saying that because rootkits use Windows APIs, any program that uses a Windows API is a rootkit.
As for why it's in the demo, modern copy protection is embedded throughout games. It's too difficult to remove the protection just for a demo that contains so much of the full game engine.
This sucks. Sony BMG was a different branch of Sony so I was able to look upon other branches and hope maybe they knew better, however, that appears to not be the case. Don't they realize Sony BMG got sued because of this? I'm guessing some guys told them they fixed the holes with the other rootkit and that this one was ok and Sony went for it. I'm of the opinion that the people making these decisions don't understand the technology because I can't see someone who understands what's going on allowing this to happen.
Cue the "in soviet russia" jokes...
Okay, I was getting myself good and riled up over this piece of news. I was even ready to return the game first thing tomorrow despite it being a lot of fun. Then I did the unthinkable - I RTFA.
Seems this is a big load of nothing. SecureROM installs a service to let those running without admin privileges run the SecureROM stuff. This is kinda bitterweet - yes, SecureROM is bad etc but running as a restricted user is good. This is assuming you trust SecureROM's website which says (from TFA):
SecuROM(TM) will install a Windows(TM) service module called "User Access Service" (UAService) on your system. This is a standard interface commonly used by several other applications as well. It is no spyware or rootkit at all. This module has been developed to enable users without Windows(TM) administrator rights the ability to access all SecuROM(TM) features. Please be assured that this service is installed only for security and convenience purposes. Since it is a standard Windows(TM) service, you can stop and delete this service, like any other Windows(TM) service. If deleted, the access for non-administrator users to SecuROM(TM) protected applications will be affected. As opposed to TFA which makes it sound something sinister. However, I don't trust GamingBOB due to his own admission: Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google. I would add my own emphasis, but I don't think it needs it. Someone finds out a service is installed along with a game and demo and calls it a rootkit to gain traffic / links / ad revenue. Slashdot should not link to crap like this. It would be newsworthy if it were true: I think many people here - myself included - would return the game if it had a true rootkit installed along with it. But this...?I don't see the issue here.
If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
What sort of logic is this?
'Oh, it failed last time, costed us millions, AND hurt our reputation. Let's do it again!!!"
Oh, how history repeats itself.
This sig left intentionally blank.
The author himself has said that he is only calling it a rootkit for SEO reasons.
From the comments:
"Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google."
Although I believe this is nastyware.. It surely does not meet the definition or rootkit.
This is still an awesome game and definitely worth the purchase. This news only makes me glad that I got it for the Xbox 360 rather than PC. If you have a Xbox 360 and don't have this game yet - shame on you.
No rootkit there. Move along. Don't bother reading the article. The author only wants some traffic.
No.
It would probably be an unwise business decision to automatically exclude over half of your potential customers at this juncture.
Peace sells, but who's buying?
yes
Whether it is a rootkit or not, I'll let others more knowledgeable than me decide that but the comments in the article basically has the author admit that he ties the word rootkit and the game together to get better SEO. Not only is the article light on actual technical detail it declares fire where there may be a hint of smoke for the purpose of driving traffic. I know I must be new here..
I just can't be bothered.
In Soviet Russia, Capitalism destroys YOU!
Erm. Wait...
Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
Not a rootkit. Story should be tagged badjournalism.
Although this "protection" scheme is horrible, crappy, the spawn of Satan himself, etc -- I don't believe it qualifies as a rootkit since it is not hidden. It IS resistant to removal, which warrants complaint, but accuracy is important in making such a complaint / discussion.
I *really* wish we could force (through consumer pressure rather than legislation if possible) publishers to acknowledge copy protection on the OUTSIDE of boxes (or other appropriate pre-purchase manner).
It's hard to boycott something that you don't hear about until AFTER purchase. (Especially since it's very difficult to return an opened game.)
Then you can relax, because it doesn't install a rootkit - the story is false.
Wow, apparently I type far too slowly. While I was typing, not only have several other people posted the same thing... there's even a post modded +5 already! O_o
I guess I lose at teh interwebs.
The reason for the !CAUTION! key is to keep an ignorant user from wiping out his key tokens in the SecuROM subkey. That's why there's an "!" at the beginning; it sorts first in the subkey. So if a user stupidly tries to delete the entire SecuROM key (not realizing that it's his DRM) while his game is installed, or even after he's uninstalled, the first attempted deleted subkey will be the !CAUTION! key and Windows will abort.
Thus it is a poor way to keep stupid users from trashing their DRM, not a rootkit.
The reason it shows up in "Rootkit Revealer" is because true rootkits use the embedded null tactic to keep users from deleting keys registering malware dll's, startup settings, etc. That way, the user has no way to deregister the malware or stop its launch.
However, the Rootkit Revealer does not simply point out rootkits. It's not that simple. RR points out suspicious methods and/or hidden files, and requires the user to analyze whether those methods and files indicate an actual piece of malware.
Clearly, a key that simply warns you not to delete other keys is not malware.
It is annoying, however, and the only way to get rid of a key with embedded nulls is with DelRegNull. I didn't like that one bit.
My key was added with the install of Neverwinter Nights 2, however, which also uses SecuROM. This key has been around for a while, folks. Someone is crying "rootkit," when really all it is is a sloppy hack to keep users from eliminating their SecuROM keys.
What's really annoying about this method is that the malformed key is not removed when you uninstall the software that requires it. SecuROM also drops a few malformed files in the directory %userprofile%\Application Data\SecuROM\UserData. They won't delete either, because they are key files which the folks at Sony have deemed MUST NEVER be deleted. Great. The only way I could manage to clean out those was by mounting the partition with NTFS-3g and issuing an rm *.*. Otherwise, another hack keeps Windows from moving the key files, probably because if you could copy them, you could run a game on any machine with the keys.
This is definitely more arrogance, and completely annoying, but certainly not a rootkit. I would love to hear what the suits at Sony have to say about their crapware. I expect nothing less than a true SecuROM removal kit, since it doesn't get removed on uninstall.
--
Toro
I have a laptop with a 7900gs, the thing burns disks. Thank god securerom doesn't think my machine is evil enough to install the DRM service. I don't mind having the unremovable keys and files on my PC as long as i'm playing the game.
/next 9:02pm c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe /interactive" after looking at the clock and seeing it's 9:01am. Wait until 9:02 and you'll get a dos prompt running as the machine account. Go delete your files.
By the way, there's an easier way to delete the files under appdata.
Type "at
So, even if this *isn't* an actual root kit, it does install some software that is a little more 'gung ho' about the whole DRM thing, which I'm definitely not thrilled to hear about. Add this in with the widescreen FOV issues from before(or more specifically how the company handled those inquiries, re: badly) and we have a game I've totally lost interest in. I'm very, very glad I didn't buy it, and do not plan to. It could be the most awesome game on the planet, but I have other cool games. In the end, I'm tired of being treated in this fashion by game companies. I refuse to support them in these actions.
Yea because the communists are known for their vibrant game publishing industry.
Vote with your dollar and don't buy this shit!
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
at least it does not F*** up your cd / dvd rom.... STARFORCE did
So this is what windows gaming has turned into. Is some content important enough to install rootkits for and pay for DRM that could just be deleted at anytime? Do yourself a favor people, learn to program and write your own games.
This is why, after being a PC gamer for 20 years, I recently bought a console.
I got sick and tired of copy protection fucking up my machine, or refusing to run a valid copy because it didn't like my disk. (Medieval Total War and Diablo II being two games in particular that simply would not run on my hardware without a CD crack.)
Having to upgrade hardware every couple years was annoying, but it's all this crap heaped on me, who is trying to pay real money for games that pushed it over the edge. I'm sure I'm not alone. And yes, I know that Console games are protected too...but for console games, it's transparent to the user.
Note that I also paid for "Galactic Civilizations II", which was not protected, and the expansion will be the only PC game I purchase this year.
The cake is a pie
to --> too
One word: TETRIS!
One thing to mention, although the article does call SecuROM a rootkit, when it technically isnt, there are other issues with SecuROM that can potentially cause exploits...
First, SecuROM service runs with admin privs...if its ever exploited...say buh-bye
Second, Windows has specific code to disable NX hardware (No Execute) for SecuROM. So if/when exploits are found for SecuROM, you can bet this will be taken advantage of.
Vote "NO" to SecuROM....
Then you can relax, because it doesn't install a rootkit - the story is false.
Thats not my only reason your forgetting the limit on installs, every time you install the game it sends a message to a server after 2 of these notices the game doesn't run unless you uninstall it a computer you had it installed in (This is also in the Steam version). Now that doesn't seem bad at all except, lets say your hard drive crashes, laptop gets stolen or you just say eh screw it I'm reformatting my computer. Now that is one install (out of 2) completely gone. People are already posting responses from both of the companies handling it. 2k tells you to contact Securom, and Securom tells you to contact 2k. The fact that if I get another computer or my hard drive crashes I have to put up this is ridiculous. Now what happens if 2k games goes under and the server is no longer there to activate it, they haven't made a comment yet about that either.
Good for certain uses anyway. I've participated in Iowa State University's Cyber Defense competitions as a red team hacker, and I've found they really help to take out the defending teams. Every team is required to run a regular Windows desktop that any user can access (the teams often play the part of universities or other facilities trying to secure a public lab), and it's fun to just walk up like a normal user, put in a "normal" music CD or game (courtesy of Sony), and then BOOM, rootkited. From there on, of course, things get easier... it's hard to remove malicious files when the OS won't let you know they are there :D.
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
You said it... I was actually looking forward, but not if they do this kind of sh....crap.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
They did it with ShadowRun...
Posting articles like this, which barely qualify as news and are INTENTIONALLY sensationalized, only serve to damage Slashdot's thin journalistic credibility. The author even admits that he injected the "rootkit" description in order to drive site/SEO traffic. I understand that it's a slow news day, but this is pure FUD. There's too much out there to post crap like this without doing legwork. The editor should have at least clarified the article in the summary so that we were aware of the content.
--- I'm going sane in a crazy world.
Then I will buy it for the cool box. Dopeman takes all the crap out of games for you and leaves pure delight behind.
Added Pressly: "Oh, and by the way, milk is nothing but liquid meat."
Especially for people who bought the game and then couldn't activate it. I can't wait until a year from now when 2k is out of business and users can no longer play the game they purchased.
Must everything digital now come with an expiration date?
Punish your users and they'll go away, or more likely warez it. This is going to be one of those games where most people run the cracked version to simply not have to deal with 2k game's bullshit DRM. Gotta love being stuck between the Securerom people and the Bioshock people both blaming each other while the users are stuck in the middle sans $50. Fu 2kgames.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
This place is getting worse by the day.
I believe you meant "raises the question".
http://begthequestion.info/
I know it really isn't a rootkit, but seriously, why is a GAME putting information into the registry anyway? I know that all games pretty much do put things into the registry...but the actual reason for it is moronic.
The registry serves as a storage space for operating system values that can be loaded quickly and easily. It is not a space to pile in any old crap that might be useful to your game or other piece of software. For that you have - tada - config files.
Your config files can be plain ascii, they can be hex, they can be binary. I don't really care. Just keep your crap out of the registry so that windows doesn't need to load a 70Meg registry file at boot.
Secondly...did nobody in their companies try to install it and notice this? Really, something that shows up under any scan with your name on it can scare the less informed. Just not a good first impression I'd say.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
I assume you mean the windows explorer, not the IE kind.... IE is IE, not E.
Any way, why in gods earth does MS make it so easy for apps to install 'plugin' type objects , active x or dlls or whatever extensions into Explorer so easily. And
why do they make it so hard to identify them and remove them!!
Too much intergration is just asking for trouble, give the user more power.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
In Soviet Russia ... Sony boycotts you!
In logic, <b>begging the question</b> describes a type of logical fallacy, petitio principii, in which the conclusion of an argument is implicitly or explicitly assumed in one of the premises.[1] Stephen Barker explains the fallacy in The Elements of Logic: "If the premises are related to the conclusion in such an intimate way that the speaker and listeners could not have less reason to doubt the premise than they have to doubt the conclusion, then the argument is worthless as a proof, even though the link between premises and conclusion may have the most cast-iron rigor".[1] In other words, the argument fails to prove anything because it takes for granted what it is supposed to prove.
/.ers to cut their use of this two-faced phrase.
Begging the question is related to the fallacy known as circular argument, circulus in probando, vicious circle or circular reasoning. As a concept in logic the first known definition in the West is by the Greek philosopher Aristotle around 350 B.C., in the Prior Analytics.
<b>In non-standard usage, the phrase is commonly used to mean "suggests the question" or "raises the question".</b>
</a>
That said, the question is emphatically a valid one. This is just a plea to
shooting is not too good for my enemies
Securom is such an anal program. It never prevents people that want to pirate the game from playing it and it only succeeds in pissing off the legitimate users. I don't know why so many PC games pack the thing.
No, it just installs a tool that's specifically intended to subvert an OS security mechanism (non-Admin user accounts). That's not a root kit, but it has a lot of the same security issues.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Information like this gets around the gaming community like wildfire. The damage done to BioShock sales by this half-assed decision is going to be downright massive. Once again, Sony's efforts to protect its property ultimately hurt only Sony. When are they going to learn?
Hey Sony, how does it feel to have a 3rd place console and a handheld gaming device that nobody wants?
Keep up the great work boys.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
and you're a slashdotter, you have only yourself to blame. Why on earth would anyone go anywhere near a company which has shown such a blatant disregard for its customers. You'd steer clear of a person who screwed you, and I dare say you'd steer clear of a mechanic/builders/plumbers firm which screwed you. Hell, you'd probably steer clear of a car dealer or (maybe even a car company which screwed you). Sony is no different. They screw over their customers, so don't go anywhere near them.
Unless, of course you really enjoy being rooted by a big corporation.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I wouldn't buy a game that writes to my registry. Make a damn Config file and leave my registry alone. A friggin 'game' shouldn't have the right to touch it.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
I've been watching Bioshock for a while now and I *really* want to play it. I could get it for the XBox (if I owned one) and I'm pretty sure it would still work in 10 years (if the XBox worked), but FPS games suck on consoles.. I want this on the PC. But there's no way I'm paying for a game with copy protection like this.. I guess 2K loses another sale because of DRM...
XenoPhage
Technological Musings
Take your Root Kit and well, you know the rest.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
I, for one, welcome our new overprotective overlords.
Ah, interesting.. An article on Blues News refers to this interview over at Joystiq where this is stated :
Given the internets and what they are -- with their tubes and all -- I want to sort of talk about the concerns people have. We take the concerns people have very seriously. There's been some concern like, "What happens if it's three years from now, or ten years from now, when I want to play this game. And, you know, Irrational Games has been hit by a meteor?" We will unset the online activation at some point in the future -- we're not talking about when. If people have concern about that they shouldn't be worried about that. This activation is for the early period of the game when it's really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it. Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance.
Well, perhaps I will buy the game.. After I see this activation thing being disabled...
XenoPhage
Technological Musings
Have you watched the documentary(BBC4 I think) or read about Tetris? Its success was an extremely rocky one, mostly because of institutional bureaucrats. There were a handful of games running around the USSR (and no lack of talent!), but publishing games to get them into gamers' hands was virtually nonexistent.
The problem with communism is if you end up with political types not unlike G.W. Bush running it. Would you want the Ministry of Video Games to be managed by Bush cronies? Wouldn't that be just terrible.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I've been waiting until the widescreen issue was properly addressed before I was going to buy this game, but now I am not going to. It's not worth getting a rootkit stuck in my system. I'm already pissed off at them for sticking it in the demo, which I tried to install but it would always crash. What a load of crap. They took the most anticipated game of the year and have turned it into something that is quickly becoming the most reviled piece of software of the year.
This article is a perfect lightning conductor to seperate the wheat from the chaff, those who actually RTFA and realise the author is nothing more than gutter trash looking to sensationalise a topic simply to drive traffic to his site (his own admission), and those who either have an anti-Sony or anti-DRM agenda, can't even be bothered to read the article to find out the truth, etc.
It's been stated already that all BioShock does is bundle SecuROM with both the demo and the full game. If we're going to start calling the standard install of SecuROM a rootkit then there are plenty of other games that are already "installing a rootkit". It's crapware sure, but its relatively benign as DRM solutions go.
Read your own FA: "In non-standard usage, the phrase is commonly used to mean "suggests the question" or "raises the question"." There's even a full section below, "Contested modern usage", that elaborates.
Not only is the usage common, we have the necessary distinction that context of the post makes clear which usage is in effect.
If you're going to be pedantic, get good at it.
Most of the folks here are Linux die-hards. This also means a lot of you like free software, right? This means piracy, and what Sony is doing to prevent that is something that you can't stand! If you don't do that crap, then you have nothing to worry about. End of story. Now get a job...
Turns out, there is no Rootkit after all. Trash the article, update, whatever, but this is FUD and I smell lawsuit.
Does anyone know how to remove it? I just checked and even though I could never run the game because my video card doesn't support shader model 3.0, I still have all this junk and it won't delete. Is my best bet to run a Ubuntu live cd and mount the drive and delete under linux?
The article title on the blog has just changed replacing the word Rootkit to SecuROM. I believe Slashdot has done the internet a great justice today. We just made a blogger correct himself and prevent future FUD.
(Remember, we are not your personal army.)
Just me
Do you remember those AOL CD's that came in the mail? I use them as beer coasters. Over the years, I have added companions to those first denizens of table top protection. Most have been advert cd's or the cd's that contain the bloatware from a new computer. Some, such as X3, were wonderful games that were destroyed by their DRM schemes. In that case, starforce, which forced its scheme on you without notification.
Did we not learn the first time? Why can these multi billion dollar corporations not come up with anything better than the broken and bloated software the average consumer must choke down?
I bought Bioshock today. I've played it for a full 3 hours. And that is all the more that it will be played.
Welcome to the beer coaster pile, Bioshock, I forsee many coffee rings and soda drops in your future
So, what are the chances that this is Sony's way of trying to harm the success of a game that is, after all, a big deal on the Xbox 360, and not coming out for the PS3?
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Case 1/ 99/e-cyclopedia/302366.stm http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/politics/econo mist_murdoch.htm Presidential Candidates eagerly take handouts from FOX http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070802/ap_on_el_pr/ed wards_news_corp- mobile/2007/08/17/1186857730452.html
0 05/05/va_threatkrew2.html7 08
s prigman.html http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2002/02/21 /web_copyright/index.html
* FOX doesn't pay their taxes. "Don't worry about it" says Congress. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02
* Guy videos FOX's Simpson movie. Goes to Jail. http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/simpsons-filmed-on
Case 2
* SONY regularly cracks the security on customer's computers. No prosecution.
* Some guy does it. 21 months jail. http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2
* Congress decide life jail for hackers would be better: http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2002/02/50
Case 3
* Disney Wants the law changed. Law gets changed. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020305_
* What's Congress done for you lately? Health Insurance? Told their own kids to enlist?
Says Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant for Sophos. "There is a growing trend for hacking gangs to break into innocent people's computers to spy, to steal, and to cause damage. This sentence sends out a strong message to other hackers that infecting others with Trojan horses and other malware is not acceptable." So Justice Department: You going to do anything about this, or are you corporate shills too?
that will fix them for good
Read radical news here
I used to buy a fair few more music CDs until the funny games they started playing to stop me playing my entirely-legitimately-purchased CDs on my PC. It was a gradual thing- I just started getting sick of half of my purchased music CDs not working when I got them home to listen to whilst I worked. Over time I just stopped buying them so often.
I used to buy a fair few more PC games. After some of the nastier games the bigger vendors started playing, I stopped buying larger commercial games and moved on to games made by smaller indies (okay, there were some other reasons to, but that's a discussion for another day). They are far less likely to install crap on your system or make you jump through hoops post-purchase.
Until recently. I purchased a game from a larger indie and then found out I had to "activate" it (after they got my money, of course). They "promise" it'll all be okay, they've got money aside in case they go out of business (which they'll never touch, of course, promise promise). But it's okay because "Windows does it too". I'd name-and-shame them but they did make an effort to make it right when I kicked up. And honestly, I don't want this fight. So let's just say it was a good indie game.
So I'll be buying less and less games over time, I guess.
So where are we now? Here I am, along with other paying customers, doing the right thing- and I get shafted as a result. I can get a better copy with less restrictions by going to the local warez-are-us. That copy won't stop working ten years later when the developer shuts down. It won't phone home and refuse to run. It won't refuse to run without a net connection sending God-knows-what to their activation server.
As a software developer I can completely understand the reason to protect your software from being casually distributed, but dammit- CD driver replacements, rootkits, web trojans, privilege elevation servers, surprise "activation". Why are you subjecting your legitimate customers to this nonsense, when the people ripping you off are just going to get it from someone who has already stripped this stuff out? Don't you realise the logical conclusion of making your product considerably worse that the warez version? Of making every software install a risk of hosing the system?
dont worry, you can easily remove it by [secureRom has detected an attempt to remove copy-protection, removing text], and then its all better
stuff
Why is Sony being blamed again? This isn't published by Sony. It's not on a Sony system. In fact, it's a direct competitor with no indication of cross-platform coming in the future. The article doesn't mention Sony until the comments. Does no one on /. play games?
Be rootkit or not, this thing which is a GAME does install something on your computer without you knowing or consenting to it, and even if it did with your consent, it is NOT being removed when you remove anything related to it.
this is a textbook case of violation. violation of many individual rights that a pc user holds over their pc. and no surprise, its again sony - nobody else.
Read radical news here
Things aren't a troll just because you disagree with it. If you don't agree, say why.
Read the Moderator Guidelines.
"Once again, Sony's efforts to protect its property ultimately hurt only Sony."
How the hell is Bioshock Sony's property? Do you even read or follow along - or just post stupid flamebait fanboy replies. Sony BOUGHT the company that makes SecureROM, even TFA author admits this isn't ACTUALLY a RootKit, and yet you still call ill on Sony as a company, and then fling fanboy crap against Sony Computer Entertainment (NOT the people who make SecureROM or the music 'rootkit' crap)...
Thanks for decreasing the quality of slashdot and being a flamebaiting retard.
(Remember, we are not your personal army.)
/. wields quite a bit of power in terms of internet outcry. That's why we see so many troll articles; interested parties know that submitting their spin to /. will give their viewpoint a wide audience. That's why its important that we, as a community, take the time to investigate claims and discuss them based on fact (yeah yeah, I know). If we behaved more responsibly as a community, rather than jumping on every rabid bandwagon that comes our way, I think we would see a marked decrease in the amount of crap press releases being posted as "news for nerds". If people with an ax to grind needed to be sure that posting to /. wouldn't expose their lies, instead of just taking for granted the blog will be a group masturbation fest over FUD that affirms our deepest fears, they would think twice (maybe) before posting the more paranoid delusions that we see here.
I think you make an important point that is seldom stressed:
It really is our internet; we have no one to blame for what it is other than ourselves.
...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
So now we're only renting games?
History has shown that putting copy protections onto software only affects legitimate purchasers whereas if someone were to get a cracked version along with an illegitimate copy, they would be able to work around any inconvenience brought upon by the copy protection. I am continually puzzled by this behaviour on the part of software publishers until I realize that perhaps they only do this at the behest of their executives and shareholders. They want to look as though they are taking action against the issue of piracy in a way that they and others who don't entirely understand the situation can. It's a sad, but necessary tactic because they can fight it no other way.
We know justice will NEVER happen against a successful corporate entity in the US. We have seen too many examples in the recent past where justice simply doesn't get applied to corporate entities. But that grim fact aside, what "should" be done?
Forget about suing and "class action" crap. That just makes lawyers richer and Sony would just write it off as part of the risk of "doing business." It's no deterrent. I think the sale of ALL THINGS with the Sony brand on them should be banned for retail sale for a period of no less than two weeks. Now *THAT* is a "cost of doing business" that they can't write off. Shareholders will feel it. Everyone would feel it and it would definitely sting.
We're supposed to be a nation of laws and since it's pretty hard to hurt or punish corporate entities, there are very few options. Making a trillion-dollar company pay a few paltry millions isn't going to drive the point home. There was barely any news coverage on the topic in the past. So where's the punishment really? And CLEARLY it was ineffective because they're doing it again.
Stop them from selling retail for no less than two solid weeks and I think the message would be heard LOUD and CLEAR. And is the punishment fair? YUP!
RootkitRevealer from Mark Russinovich (Microsoft) says so, and he doesn't have any agenda seeing as to how it's a game on Microsoft's platforms.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Slashdot get paid to link to crap like this. Times like this I wish we could still use the Blink tag, just to get the message through people's think heads.
Is it so hard to understand that? Slashdot is a business. The only think they want from "geeks" is that we continue to direct hits to Slashdot's real customers' ad-sites.
Why else do you think Slashdot repeatedly posts Roland Piquepaille's articles? Even Zonk isn't stupid enough to think that Roland's crappy blog is actually news, any more than this article is legitimate. Zonk's just doing his job.
Get over it.
I mean don't buy their software, don't buy their PS3's, don't buy their PC's or anything else. I know one person can never make a difference so just do it for yourself.
THIS is a root kit!
In Soviet Russia the government destroys companies!!
that's not funny anymore:P
I download the demo only to find out it requires smart shader 3, my card doesn't support it, so the game is unplayable and now, on top of that, I may have a rootkit installed on my system. My experience with Bioshock has been completely ruined...
It's "poses the question," not "begs the question."
I see the registry keys, but the service isn't installed.
2KGames: Under no circumstances do you ever need to include securom with a demo. That's violation of the computer fraud and abuse act.
I spend almost a thousand dollars a year on games. Don't piss off your customers.
They're using their grammar skills there.
My friend said it was pretty fun on his XBox. I'd love to try it, but I refuse to install any more games with SecureROM. It's just not worth it. I'd get to play a game, but there's another useless service installed on my computer, I'll have to keep the CD handy whenever I want to play (on my laptop, at home and at the office) and I'd have to uninstall daemon tools from all my computers.
Why? Pirates are going to have the hacked version available on their sites anyway, sometimes before it's even available for purchase. If people want a free version of the game, they'll get it there. Why not just use a CD-KEY that is checked with online play? I think some studio should run a test. Sell a version of a game without copy protection for $10 or $20 more than the one with copy protection. I'd pay more for the game without copy protection... If there's a study that actually shows that copy protection reduces the value of games to consumers, maybe they would wake up.
Welcome!
This "rootkit" stuff--and I know it's not a true rootkit, just some overzealous DRM, it's still bad--isn't the only thing that might put some people off from buying Bioshock. The game requires a video card that supports PS3.0, so that means there's a lot of gamers out there that simply wont be able to run the game, DRM or not. Over 40% of Steam users from Valve's hardware survey are not capable of running Bioshock. This article from arstechnica explains, it's mostly the ATI x800/850 users who are being kept from playing. There is a project in development to port Bioshock to work on the older cards, so we'll see how that pans out. This whole thing reminds me of a similar situation with BF2 requiring PS2.0 support, plenty of older cards that could run the game fine otherwise were incompatible because EA didn't include an alternate rendering path for cards that didn't include the new PS standard.
If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
Is it time to boycott Sony products? Or will consumers turn the other cheek AGAIN? I will NEVER trust a Sony product from now on.
\
It should be a prosecutable, felony crime for any product to install ANY admin-level software on my computer without my prior permission!
Period!
Seems odd that Sony EX-Os would still insist on rootkit install with products.
After all, none of the Sony EX-Os or even the front-line manager, have the slightest
idea, knowledge, nor training, in any way, regarding a rootkit. They would not know,
nor have any ability, what so ever, to use such a thing.
Perhaps, one, or more, of Sony's EX-Os, were "encouraged" to put rootkits in all Sony
products, in order to, shall we say, "encourage" profit. A company like Sony, needs
profit, after all. And the increase of profit, needs to be "encouraged" from time to
time, by what ever means.
Checked your credit account lately? Too bad for you; too good for Sony!
Toodles
And people think Digg has the power... We're much better.:)
And why copy protect a demo? Starforce did it too. It's SUPPOSEDLY, if you listen to the party line, to prevent "hackers" from using the demo executable to figure out how to bypass the protection on the retail. Of course my theory is it's to get this shit on as many machines as possible. I wound up with Starforce on my machine from a fucking demo of Xpand Rally I think it was.
so i downloaded it the night before release on steam. it eventually comes out 2 hours later than it's scheduled release date.. i'm fine with that.. decrypts, installs, i go to run it.. 'a required security module cannot be activated.' then it gives me a link to go too, and surely enough.. http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=module&c=5024 pulls up. apparently it checks for the dll that process explorer uses(process explorer is a microsoft product, for their sysinternals line) which is basically a beefed up version of task manager. so now i have to reboot, make sure not to touch this legit app, and fire it up, plays nice mind... but if I'd known all of this problem would have occured, i'd probably never have bought the damn thing, or at least wait until there was a workaround for it.
Slashdot should quit it with the tabloid news posts. There is no root-kit. http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116202
"Five words: Slit your fucking wrists fucktard."
Freedom is not an excuse to be irresponsible.
Language is constantly changing, and evolving. Words and phrases come and go, definitions and spellings change. At one time, "weird" meant "destiny". Now it means "strange". "Aspirin", "Kleenex", and "Zipper" all used to be brand names. Now they are common words. While the phrase "begs the question" may have enjoyed a singular definition in the world of logic and debate in the past, it is in the process of acquiring a new meaning. You might as well sit back and enjoy it, because arguing the point is a losing battle, no matter how right you may be. Trust me. I've spent many a keystroke on the "hacker"/"cracker" issue.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Same. I actually don't buy games I can't pirate first, because I want to know it's worth the money. Budget titles I might take a punt on, but if you're asking $80-90 (au) for a game, it'd better have some decent longevity to it. I've been burned too many times by games that have a cool demo that suggests the full version will have more depth... only to discover the full version is the same thing over and over again.
A good example would be Doom 3. I'd be pissed if I'd bought it based on a demo. Fortunately I didn't, and I got bored of it after a few levels. Yeah, for $20 or something it would've been cool, but not at full premium price. No fucking way.
Something vaguely interesting to me: the 1.3 patch for Silent Hunter 4 removes the copy protection check. I've been playing it with a nocd for ages (originally pirated, but I've bought a copy too) so this doesn't really make any difference to me. But what I found interesting is the number of people on the Subsim.com forums who gave kudos to Ubisoft for removing the copy protection. I'd always figured I was one of just a small minority that actually find copy protection annoying, and that everyone else just didn't mind it at all. But the reaction on the forums suggests to me that a lot of people do find it annoying, and I'm just a part of the minority which choose not to put up with it.
That said, obviously a lot of publishers would prefer to release shit games with good demos and sell lots of copies, rather than just making good games people want to buy. But, I don't feel any moral responsibility to support that particular business model. Make a good game that I like, and I'll buy it. Simple.
For anyone who has actually bought the game or used the demo: Does it uninstall when you uninstall the game/demo (or at the least, have an option to remove securom seperately)? If not, that's enough to qualify it as malware in my books.
Yea because the communists are known for their vibrant game publishing industry.
Obviously, you never played Poly Play. Arrogant bourgeois moose and squirrel.
And behind the iron curtain, we didn't waste time rootkitting kids' game. We rootkitted the whole goddamned society. Noobs.
Innovation makes enemies of all those who prospered under the old regime... -- Machiavelli
Took Razor 1911 about 5 seconds to patch.
Peace sells, but who's buying?
For fucks sake, Bioshock isn't Sony property, nor is it a Sony product. Sony didn't make the decision for some company to implement their copy protection scheme, you should be blaming 2k Games (the developer) or Take-Two (the publisher). The only reason people are using words like Sony and rootkit in the same sentence is for sensationalism and page hits. People like to hate on Sony, mainly due to their music CD rootkit, but this isn't a Sony issue, nor is it a rootkit.
Bioshock isn't the first game to implement Securom, not even close, so why do consumers seem to care all the sudden when they didn't give a shit about previous games that used Securom?
Normally I wouldn't feed trolls, but someone had to correct your blatant misinformation.
I'm sure this isn't the worst article ever to grace Slashdot's front page, but this one is pretty ridiculous.
Sony owns a company that provides a copy protection mechanism (just like a bunch of other companies). Bioshock uses their copy protection. Microsoft's rootkit detection program misidentifies it as a root kit.
How does this lead to the conclusion that Sony are the bad guys?
Sure, you might not like the copy protection application and think it's stupid (i feel that way), but I don't fault Sony for it being used on Bioshock. I fault Irrational (or whatever they are called now) and Take 2. I don't fault Sony for Microsoft's rootkit detector returning a false positive. I fault Microsoft for calling things rootkits that aren't.
I also fault the story submitter for being a jackass and the original article's author for writing an intentionally misleading article in an effort to get page views (he even admits that is why he did it.)
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
..."begging the question"?
This begs the question: Since when did demos need copy protection?"
No, it raises the question. Begging the question is something else.
I was looking forward to buying this game, but then I heard about the DRM.
I looked to see if Steam had a version that wasn't infected, but it was too.
I'll pass on this game. There are others.
I've been saying that for a while... slashdot is dominated by a clique-ish groupthink that is absolutely unhealthy, and makes it hard to take much of the opinion here seriously. Too many people spend too much time saying things that they will make them look "cool" to other similarly insecure slashdotter, and not enough time actually critically reading the articles.
Have you watched the documentary(BBC4 I think) or read about Tetris? ...
The problem with communism is if you end up with political types not unlike G.W. Bush running it. Would you want the Ministry of Video Games to be managed by Bush cronies? Wouldn't that be just terrible
If so, Tetris would be outlawed as a Weapon of Mass Distraction.
> It's SUPPOSEDLY, if you listen to the party line, to prevent "hackers" from using the demo executable to figure out how to bypass the protection on the retail.
It's more like if the demo is the same exe, and you don't put the copy protection on it, you've just provided a "no cd fixed exe" patch to anyone who wants it.
(my captcha is "goatees". you probably already know what i thought it was on the first read)
If so, Tetris would be outlawed as a Weapon of Mass Distraction.
Distraction might be useful for a failing communist government. In fact distractions like WMDs are apparently good for more than just communists.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
of what 'begging the question' is used for. It's no good telling people that what they do is wrong unless you add a supporting argument or alternative (QED :-) :-)
Heh, that thing is pretty neat. So were there hundreds of other video games like this, or was that all that East Germany had to offer?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
First of all, your link to the forums goes to a thread about achievement points on the Xbox version of the game. This thread is much more relevant; it's about the rootkit.
Second of all, I, like many other people, was looking forward to Bioshock's release. I, like I hope many other people will do, refuse to buy it now.
Whether people thing of this as FUD or not, the simple matter of the fact is that:
2K Games has A FAQ about SecuROM that is, at best, contradictory in several places. They say:
However, Sysinternals' RootkitRevealer software begs to differ. Who am I going to trust, a game company that is practicing Defective by Design tactics, or Mark Russinovich, a software engineer who's proven time and again that he is the guru of this stuff, the guy who discovered the infamous Sony rootkit, the guy who knew Windows better than even the Windows people knew Windows, so well that Microsoft bought his company and hired him? I'll gladly cast my lot with Mark any day, even if he does work for Microsoft now.
2K Games also says in its FAQ:
They then go on to say:
Um... If SecuROM doesn't fingerprint my hardware, what is the "machine ID" that a hash is taken of and sent to their servers? And how the hell is it possible that changing several pieces of hardware might result in a required reactivation? The simple answer is, of course, that SecuROM does fingerprint your hardware, and 2K Games lied to our faces in the hopes that computer users who aren't as savvy as us won't get bogged down with the technical details and just read the part where they say that it doesn't fingerprint the hardware.
This is totally inexcusable, and I won't have anything to do with this company. Will the game be cool? Maybe, but nothing is cool enough to install this crap on my computer for. As far as I'm concerned, 2K Games has destroyed its credibility, and they can go to hell for it.
(from above post...)
A 2K Games forums administrator, "2K Elizabeth," posted this message when a brouhaha started erupting:
This is patently false, as pointed out by several users' follow-up posts. One even took a nice screenshot that shows that this is at best a pretty hideous example of an administrator not knowing what the hell she's talking about, at worst another outright lie that attempts to appease people who don't know better and can't actually check the veracity of what's being said.
I think DRM in PC software is ultimately self-defeating. The more anal it gets, the more likely people will hold out for the cracked version. After all, why should people pay money and get punished for it when they can have the unencumbered version for free? Software companies would do better to support their legitimate customers by providing patches and new features for free after release.
How the HELL did this get modded informative!!?
The summary never says that Bioshock is a Sony game. In fact, Bioshock isn't even mentioned until well into the summary, and it's clear that they licensed the software from Sony. The summary makes it crystal clear that Sony is the owner of SecuROM copy protection, the copy protection that Bioshock installs.
Are you on drugs? I mean, seriously, are you on drugs!? That's the only way I can think of to explain how stupid that sentence is. If Sony came up with the technology, and then the other guys decided to license it and use it, does this mean Sony had much to do with it? Hell yes, because they wrote it!!! Plus, there's also the little fact that they've done this exact same thing before that you're totally ignoring. Once is a lapse in judgement. Twice is a pattern. I wasn't what you call and anti-Sony-fanboy before all of this rootkit fiasco, but I sure as hell am now. If not wanting rootkits installed on my computer makes me a anti-Sony-fanboy, then I suppose I'm proud to call myself one, and for the mere sake of computer security, I highly recommend to everyone I know that they immediately become anti-Sony-fanboys too.
If I steal your credit card numbers, and then other guys decided to buy them and use them, does this mean that I had much to do with it?
Damn, there's dense, and then there's dense. You, sir, are the latter kind. By all means, feel free to riddle your computer with rootkits for the sake of playing a stupid game, and be happy that at least you know that you're selling your soul to the devil, unlike most of the non-computer-savvy users who will probably buy and play this game that are none the wiser.
Well, he might have changed his blogpost, but this high traffic site is still saying that BioShock installs a rootkit. So mission accomplished...
Im going to wait for a cracked version to appear, then im going to download a clean version of the game and when im satisfied it works, and only then, i'll go and buy a copy of the game off the some online retailer and have it shipped to hell.
Ok, maybe i will ship it to me, keep the case and incinerate the disc that comes with it.
Im simply not going to risk getting stuck with a game a paid being unplayable thanks to an overzealous publisher... again. (starforce)
Not exactly, you're buying a LICENSE to play their game. SecuROM is NOT required to play their game, therefore it is NOT a requirement of the license. As such, it has no place in the game.
Worse, SecuROM actually PREVENTS you from using your computer in other commonly used, non-infringing ways. So by buying the game, you're actually buying the crippling of your system along with it.
You need to read again what SecuROM does. Where you have it installed is irrelevant. It actually alters your operating system in a manner that allows non-privileged applications to run as an administrative user. That means that at the very least, it can affect your entire Windows installation. And before you go with your "I've used Linux..." rationale, you should realize that it can also affect your Linux installation.
Here's how it could work. I write a piece of software that uses the elevated privileges that SecuROM grants to normal users without your knowledge or consent that goes in and wipes all non-recognized partitions on your hard drive. Voila, your system has been compromised because playing a stupid game whose publishers willingly opened up a security hole on your system. That's what I mean when I keep saying that even if 2K Games didn't have evil intentions, what they're unleashing on people can most certainly be used for evil purposes.
The thought that you are paying them for the privilege of having a rootkit installed on your computer and that you're okay with it quite disconcerting to me, but by all means, if the service of having your system compromised is worth $50 to you, go ahead. (There are lots of people who would willingly compromise your system for free, incidentally.) Personally, I find it disgusting that anyone can't see the bigger picture and would support a company that engages in these practices, but it's your computer and your money.
Surely this thing calls home to a particular IP address, and asks for a particular kind of permission to install, right? Why not just work out a way of replacing that IP with localhost, and run a program that says "yes, you may install"?
"But only for making the software/music, not for the copies. So if an artist/programmer spends 100 hours making a song or programming an application, he/she should get paid for the 100 hours they spent, according to their hourly rate."
Typical slashdot. First most games are produced by teams, not individuals. Second you may want to look up "Mass Production" and "Economics of scale". Apparently those are your weak areas.
"Why do people think it's fair to get paid for work they actually haven't done ?"
It's amazing how many "haven't done"'s one can download over a broadband connection.
"I don't see how music or software is any different."
This is slashdot. Anything "intangible" is hard to understand.
You work for Sony ac?
The guy who posted it, also adds:
"The point of the article is to let people know that the SecuROM service was installed with the demo,and I have provided a way to remove it. This is a benefit for anyone who searches for "bioshock rootkit" or "SecuROM rootkit". I am not using it just for "traffic and ad revenue"."
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I thought if someone installed a rootkit into your system they risk going to jail?
Does that "click through" permission thing really count?
If it does, maybe some popular software author should provide an EULA where users are to follow all legal orders from him/her, and at least once a quarter howl at the full moon while hopping on one foot (if able to hop and howl).
There's reasonable contract and unreasonable contract. I don't think it's reasonable to install a game and have it undermine my computer system.
Since this text isn't on the page, are you saying he deleted it?
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
This begs the question: Since when did demos need copy protection?
If you actually read up on what is public knowledge about SecuROM's methods of copy protection you would find that certain chunks of code are encrypted and/or converted into instructions for a proprietary virtual machine to obfuscate them.
Since a demo is often based on code that is very close, if not identical, to the gold-master release version you HAVE to protect it in the same way. Otherwise a disassembly of the demo would reveal exactly what you are trying to hide in the release version, and the nasty pirates would just replace the jumbled sections of code in the release version with the clear versions lifted from the demo.
And yes I am a game developer, and yes I am currently copy protecting a game in preparation for release. So sue me for trying to keep the PC platform alive for gaming.
It's hard to get on my Permanent Boycott list; in 9 years only General Mills and Sony have made it. Sony just keeps reinforcing the decision, and already it's cost them a few hundred dollars in a camera sale (bought Nikon instead).
Ummm... not FUD. The article(blog post) is spot on. SecuROM is a rootkit by definition, as are most other copy protection and DRM utilities. I wouldn't call it malware, trojan, or anything else along those lines, but it is a rootkit. It's a piece of software being installed without your knowledge, whose sole purpose is to gain admin priveledges to your system. Yep, classic rootkit. Not sure why this one is so much more evil than all the other rootkits, that you get bundled with games these days. Maybe it's because it's made by Sony.
I know I would have invested in a non-DRM'd version of BioShock.
d fi on/2005/05/assurance_contr.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assurance_contracts
http://mason.gmu.edu/~atabarro/PrivateProvision.p
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolut
Many public goods and club goods exhibit increasing returns. A lighthouse, for example, is useless unless complete. It's difficult to get voluntary contributions to these types of good not only because of the free rider problem but also because contributors fear that their contribution will be wasted if others do not also contribute. An assurance contract makes contributions contingent on some level of total contribution being reached.
Assurance contracts can help to solve coordination problems. I agree to contribute to build the lighthouse if and only if enough others also agree so that production is guaranteed.
Fundable.org is making assurance contracts easier to implement. If you want to raise money for a cause you can set up a Fundable group. Contributions to the group goal are held by Fundable in escrow. All money is returned unless the group goal is met. If the group goal is met the funds are paid to the group leader.
Every video game I have I bought legally. In fact every piece of software I own, I own legally. Does the uninstaller uninstall the DRM cleanly or not? Why wasn't there a DRM rootkit or protected registry warning given?
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Exactly: It's like all those "viruses" in emails that aren't viruses but trojans. Does it really matter to the end user who gets infected whether it's called a virus or a trojan? It's still malware.
Check the source article. He just now stated that its not a rootkit.
"I'll not be buying it either now. I can see why people would want to protect their software but this is a bit extreme. "
Is it? Extreme causes require extreme actions. I know it's common around here to blame the security industry for burglars breaking into our houses, and pickpockets stealing our wallets. But sometimes you just have to face the fact that the bad apples (whatever you think their size may be) brought this entire mess upon us all, and misguided blame isn't going to correct the situation.
Don't make illegal copies and discourage those who do. If everyone affected does their part the problem can be licked. But much like spam as long as there are participants the problem will never be solved, and will get worse.
So, the SecureROM software effectively makes BioShock SETUID Administrator?
Frankly, if *I* get to control what software is granted this privilege, this is a great idea.
...only installing a pirated version. These companies need to learn the hard way. DON'T PAY FOR THIS PRODUCT. Just get a torrent and play the cracked exe that doesn't ruin your computer security.
STUPID ASS CORPORATIONS!!!!!
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Which really isn't a big deal since pretty much everyone runs their Windows users as Admin users (its the default). My only real concern is the whole activation deal. But I assume if I ever run into a problem i can call up some tech support and raise havoc with a manager. Or crack it, whichever works best.
It's boycott Starforce II: Boycott SecuROM.
From there, the cry will become "Boycott DRM!" From there, the cry will be "There should be a law against that!"
Personally, I can't wait until the day when some enterprising politician makes crapping all over my machine without my permission, or even my knowledge, illegal activity. Then these arrogant jerks, the one's who think their $50 game software is more valuable than my $1500 machine, will stop the nonsense or find themselves liable for damages or even face a criminal court.
--
Toro
(P.S.: It is not a rootkit. That's sensationalist hype. It is undeleteable crap corrupting your user account.)
You know what's interesting? None of these "suggestions" are better than the present system. How does this "contract" system benefit both parties without screwing one or the other? Same of all the rest. Common sense would tell you to fix the root problems and make the present system work instead of creating something unproven, that's worse than the illness.
I guess a couple of points:
1) Sony from what I can tell is a backer of SecureROM, but not directly related to 2K, which made the game.
I am not sure why there are posts about not buying Sony products, but in keeping with the over all "stupidity" that is going on in the industry, I am not at all surprised Sony backs SecureROM.
2) Regardless of the accuracy of the initial Blog, the level of "ALARM" that should be acknowledged about this SecureROM software is highly justified.
Putting software on a computer that bypasses security in a cloaked fashion as SecureROM does, and then at the same time putting a "Happy Smiley" face on the EULA for someone that is not qualified to understand the implications of installing the service on the computer, to sign off on is unforgivable.
2K knows damn well that the average person playing games on their home PC probably also does their Quicken, Web based banking, etc on the same computer.
The security implications are obvious.
You know, when I bought Supreme Commander it didn't take long time find out that the initial releases of the games DRM controls was really screwing the games ability to run on a wide variety of different PC configurations.
What was the vendors response? They issued an update to remove it from the game. Amazingly, a large number of people reported that the game doesn't crash anymore, they can make backups of their data again because they could burn CD's reliably once more.
Imagine that?
3) What is needed is a good lawsuit against these sorts of companies that puts them out of business, not the little "pinch" on the wrist that Sony got, with as much fanfare as possible.
I mean, come on. There has to be some really vile blood sucking lawyers out there that can think in really BIG class action terms! This is your chance to not only be the king of blood suckers, but actually do some good for a change and put these idiots out of business.
Probably the only time I will ever ask for a lawyers help in my lifetime.
4) What I cannot understand is why companies feel they can install this software and defeat the security of the OS and third party applications, in the context of the DMCA and get away with such small fines?
Yet, if you make a copy or defeat a copy mechanism for a movie or mp3 you can literally as a private citizen go to jail for years and pay 6 figures in restitution just because you want to make copies of your stuff you rightfully purchased, or paid to view at a later date because you have a job, and have to pay taxes?
The best thing that the community can do is write to 2K here:
622 Broadway
New York, New York
10012
Tel: 646 723 4200
inquiries@2kgames.com
and let them know it is NOT alright to install SecureROM or any software that attempts to circumvent security placed on customers machines. Make sure you tell them that you WILL hold them liable for any software that happens to come along and take advantage of the holes SecureROM provides on your machine and SUE them.
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
That's not true for Vista. If it were, there would be way less annoying UAC pop-ups. And yes, breaking whole chunks of an OS security model just to install a video game is a big deal.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
...and admit that I've copied more than my fair share of games. I've heard all the arguments about why I should support developers and blah-blah-blah. I didn't try the demo, but I did run out and buy bioshock, completely ignorant of the securom bastard rootkit, only vaguely aware of the activation required (but there was no mention of a limit.)
...It's much cheaper to buy a $4 DVD9, download a bin/cue, and wait for a crack.
After installation, Bioshock decided to automatically download/install an update, and tell me nothing about what changed.
Then, it directs me to get the newest nvidia drivers, which nearly hosed my computer!
I manage to rollback my drivers, check slashdot on my laptop while I wait for it to come back up....whaddya mean 2 activations? Or 5?
If I crash, I 'lose' an activation...forever. I *paid* $50 at Gamestop for THIS?
What if their activation servers go down - for good? What if I wanna play, or if my kids wanna go "old school" in some years?
Pirates may be pirates... but I must say - when it comes to customer service - they aren't the ones who make you walk the plank!
Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
With closed a hardware solution designed top to bottom to be a DRM wrapper? I guess that's one way to stand up to something. But by that logic you'd have done just as well with a rootkit (and probably saved some money).
Quack, quack.
>>Well, perhaps I will buy the game.. After I see this activation thing being disabled...
I did not buy GTA 3+ because of this reason. I didn't buy the Sims 2 because of this. A legal copy of Jedi Knight wouldn't play due to copy protection. A legal copy of various other games either such as GTA 2 and a few other's a forget...
Anyway, I just play MMO's now. I installed a demo of the Singles and it installed starforce which royally screwed up my PC until I spent hours figuring out what happened and uninstalled it. That was like a virus.
Eve online has no copy protection. Neither did WoW nor several other MMO's. So they get my $$
Expecting to be paid for your software is reasonable.
Taking tactics which can actually damage your customers' computers is not.
In fact, copy protection is entirely unnecessary to be paid for your work. Just look at record sales -- people do, in fact, still buy CDs, even though most have no copy protection at all. They even buy DVDs, even though the protection there has been so thoroughly cracked that there are one-click programs to rip a DVD and put it on your video iPod. Plenty of people still subscribe to Cable TV, even though most shows are available within a few hours on BitTorrent.
Oh, and by the way, before you mention it -- a pirated copy is not a lost sale. A pirated copy is not a lost sale. A pirated copy is not a lost sale. Repeat this until you understand it, and then take another look at the statistics -- the RIAA/MPAA are still insanely rich, as are the better artists, musicians, directors, and so on. There is simply not significant evidence, anywhere, that they have lost money due to piracy.
I know it's comforting when you can believe the world is black and white, but it isn't.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
The thing is, you can't both have that attitude and be a gamer, unless you intend to only play old GPL'd games. Just about all modern games do this kind of stuff -- even, if I remember, things like Doom 3 on Windows, even though there's a native Linux version with basically no copy protection.
The way I operate here is, I will buy any game which is worth playing, and has copy protection that I can either crack or live with. I will also prefer games which I can make work on Linux, even if it requires Wine/Cedega.
Kind of like how I will buy or rent DVDs, but not HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, because DVDs are cracked enough at this point that they may as well not have copy protection, but HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are still protected enough that I can't play them easily on Linux with mplayer.
Basically, I figure the main reason I don't like copy protection is that it forces me to have a physical copy and to run on Windows, using mostly proprietary software, and could potentially cause security issues. Games generally force me to run Windows and proprietary software anyway, so the only real cause I have for concern about issues like this is whether I can play without the CD and whether I can prevent the rootkit from getting as deep into my system as it wants.
Now, in the case of Bioshock, it may or may not change in the future. Often, the developers don't like rootkits any more than we do, and it's something the publishers force on them. Future patches have removed this kind of thing before. If that happens, I'd definitely consider purchasing it. However, I'd also consider purchasing it as soon as I'm sure there's a decent crack for it...
It's just a little hard to "vote with your dollars" when there's not really much alternative, other than maybe going to a completely locked down system, like a game console.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Of course EVE and WoW have copy protection. It's called your subscription account. You are registered and pay a regular fee, and there's few ways to hack around it or get a legitimate game experience without it.
Exactly what all these morons are trying to do with their schemes and activations and hacks is the protection MMO's get due to a game design quirk.
Let's be blunt here. There is software I do not want on my PC. Rootkits for example. And I have no problem with my conscience to remove rootkits that come tagging along with programs I want to use. I licensed the software, I am allowed to use it, I do not want you to bug my computer, reduce its stability or its security. You don't care about my needs, I don't care about yours. Fair deal.
I just wonder how many people will still take the, for the functionality unnecessary, burden of actually licensing the software, though.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Sony needs to be taught a lesson. Hit em where it hurts LOL.
Begging the question is the use of a circular argument. Perhaps this raises the question, but it does not beg the question.
Eventually, when 90% of the PC gaming market is lost to Usenet and torrents (the same 90% who actually use the Internet for two things more than watching stupid whores on Youtube and stupid, drunken whores on CollegeHumor), the game PRODUCERS (read: the people who actualy shell out the cash for the games to be made) will stop paying for new PC games and just make console games. Because hardware level DRM is so much cheaper than software DRM (even if hardware DRM is just difficult-to-change software DRM, but shhhh). We'll bitch because the Xbox 720 (No, not the Xbox 640), and the Playstation MX Paradigm (PS4), and well, Nintendo will be out of business by then, both (still) suck and there hasn't been a new PC game since the Halo 4 release (still with no online co-op (because they weren't able to pull it off in QUAKE 2 at all, nope)). They'll bitch about they millions "lost to piracy" when both sides know it was DRM's (read: greed's) fault for pushing the sides away from the each other. But we screwed ourselves. We wanted games that didn't suck on both the play level and the "doesn't make my computer a paranoid drug addict" level. And they wanted money. The two desires were never compatible. Money !== Everything_Else.
I stopped buying games a very long time ago because 1) they aren't worth paying for. 2) The one's worth paying for don't cause trends towards future "worth paying for" games. 3) This exact discussion. 4) All of my software budget went (and goes) to Adobe Flash, Photoshop, and their upgrades. You think piracy fines are bad, try business piracy fines, jesus.
And I can't simply have multiple computers for each individual task. Sure, like similar geeks, I've still got ever computer I've ever owned, each one down on the list doing equivalently-leveled tasks. But that's the besides the point. In order to play Bioshock, you can't have a suck computer in the first place. You drop $1500 for a system that can give you a decent playing experience with BioShock only to have it compromised for FREE by a damn demo. Worse still, paying for that compromise.
If I'm going to engage in a $50 lose-lose situation, I'm going to find the most attractive hooker on 13th Street and bet my buddies $10 she ain't Vice and try to get something-something for the other $40. That's money well lost.
The downside of being killed is the upside of being dead.
This is becoming ridiculous at an alarming rate. AFAIK, SecuROM does two things that the technologically impaired could call a rootkit (plus something they've all gotten used to), and boy do they whine.
The part that's bad is actually support, and 2K and SecuROM should be working on fixing that if they haven't already. There appear(ed) to be problems with "reclaiming" activations by uninstalling the game, and support inquiries got lost in a responsibility mixup between 2K and SR.
By the way, I've been playing the game for perhaps six or seven hours in two sessions. It installed without a hitch, went through activation just fine, and didn't crash even once. Neither did it show graphical corruption.
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
The demo didn't install any of those things on my system. Might be because I got it by Bittorrent from the Piratebay tracker... (Yes, I was wondering about a 1.9GB demo from TPB...)
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
To be honest, you don't have to run this game in Windows PC.
I'm not going to drum up too much about it, but I still think it's playable on my Xbox 360 with no issues one way or the other about compatability, security, or otherwise. Sure you may be paying a little more, but aren't software pirates still going to pirate? So there's no real loss here if you're truly legitimately buying this.
I don't know if a high end machine will make it more gorgeous than the version for the console. Especially since the console version was written specifically for a set hardware architecture. I'm sure there's no slowdown.
So, I don't know. I personally am running Debian, and with all the quality games that come onto consoles, maybe it'd be easier to vote with the dollar here and still play the game?
Just some thoughts.
-Shoe
Is our children learning?
Looks like you're only doing this because you want to join in the groupthink and look cool!
Sorry, couldn't resist
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Use consoles for gaming. Ditch Windows for BSD or Linux.
From the SecuROM site:
"This module has been developed to enable users without Windows(TM) administrator rights the ability to access all SecuROM(TM) features."
How many groups do you suppose are out there working on "borrowing" SecuROM for admin level access?
Even if it's technically not a rootkit, I still don't want crap like that on my system, thanks very much. Kudos to the blogger for bringing it to peoples attention before they went and bought Bioshock, even if he did get it a little wrong originally (he's corrected the article since the original post).
Anyone know if someone's had a look over the XBox version to see if it does anything "funky"?
Try to go to "sysinternals.com", it forwards you to "http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/def ault.mspx"
"Microsoft TechNet: Windows Sysinternals"
The latest versions of the utils are there, but now that MS owns the programs and employ Mark R., what do you think would happen if MS, due to some security feature or addition, installed something that "hid" itself from the standard UI? Depending on what it was and "why", would they want a "rootkitrevealer" program that advertises the new addition? Perhaps they wouldn't care what users thought (like that's a "stretch") even if
users used MS's own utils to detect it...but will MS "always" not care what people think?
Who knows....but might it be under a "federal security letter" ordering them to insert some monitoring software that should remain hidden (and any disclosure of the work, patch, installation or "letting" it be found, might be grounds for criminal penalties)...and even if MS might care, we know the Bush government won't care, will order it secret, and then proceed to "un-recall" any memories associated with how it got there and/or claim executive privilege (your tax dollars at work).
One by one Securom has been blocking Sysinternal utilities that allow one to examine the security state and actions taken by Securom. It not only checks for programs currently running, but in some cases checks to see if you have ever run certain system security & status programs since you last booted.
In TombRaider:Anniversary, Securom (as required/included by Eidos), checks to see if you've run ProcExp at anytime since your last reboot.
ProcExp, or ProcessExplorer, is now distributed by microsoft (as in it's on microsoft's servers). They acquired it when they bought up "Sysinternals/Mark Russinovitch run sysinternal's, (now microsoft's) "Process Explorer" (ProcExp) -- a more powerful replacement for the standard MS-TaskMonitor) -- since you last *booted*. It doesn't just check to see if it is running when you start the game -- it checks, apparently, for some driver used/loaded by ProcExp when it first runs.
I presume either Windows drivers aren't unloadable, or ProcExp just doesn't reload it on each invocation, but only loads it on the first run after boot.
Either way...you run ProcExp, you can't run TR:A unless you reboot.
Quaintly enough, once TRA is running -- as long as you don't "quit" out of the game, you can run ProcExp with no problems -- TRA only checks on startup (presumable to hide securom's actions).
Interestingly, in the previous "TR:Legends", securom already prevented some sysinternal utils (at least filemon/regmon that I'm aware of) -- but at least then they didn't require you to reboot your machine if you had used them. That's really a pain for legitimate users. It's definitely a straw on the camel's back. I game to break from work for a while -- if I have to destroy my workspace setup via a required reboot, it makes the game far less valuable. Leaving it up is a partial workaround, but the game doesn't reset the sound after it's been minimized or paused -- so the longer it's up, the more distorted the sound gets....but who wants sound with their game anyway...:-/
Shame you wont be buying it. Bioshock is perhaps one of the best FPS games I've played in years. Better than Deus Ex. Reminds me in a way of Fallout.
You can limit yourself on the games you play if you wish. If you're properly firewalled, then a "rootkit" should be less of a worry.
Not buying a product is a great way to protest. Telling the company exactly why you are not buying is the best protest.
But Shadowrun is created by the same company that created Vista. MS doesn't care about Shadowrun nearly as much as they care about Vista, so if even one gamer buys Vista in order to play Shadowrun, that's a win for them.