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NBC Universal Drops iTunes
An anonymous reader writes "NBC Universal has cancelled its iTunes contract and will withdraw the television shows it currently offers through the service in December, when the current contract expires. This is a huge blow for the service, as NBC is the controlling interest in Apple customer-friendly intellectual properties like The Office, Battlestar Galactica, My Name is Earl and Heroes. From the article: 'The decision to withdraw the content follows disagreements between the two firms. Apple is thought to have rejected NBC's demands for more restrictive DRM and the introduction of flexible pricing. Apple was informed of NBC Universal's decision late last night. The report states that neither Apple nor NBC Universal would comment on the matter, but said they continue to talk, "free of acrimony".'" Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
Uh, watching it for free over-the-air?
Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
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Please move along.......
music lover since 1969
DVD?
But I watched most of Season 1 of Heroes on their official site. Here's hoping Season 2 continues that way.
Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
Sheeesh!
I guess we are forgetting about Heroes on DVD. Personally, I would rather have it on a physical format anyway. You can call me old school, old fashioned or paranoid; but I'd rather know that NBC can't just cancel their contract with my provider and I'm left screwed for the rest of the season.
I'm f#$king magic!
1) Use an Antenna. It's called broadcast TV.
2) Go to a friends house. You do have friends right?
3) Go out to a public place that has Heroes on their TV.
4) Wait to buy the DVD's.
Most of these options don't even involve paying NBC.
Yes, a little hyperbole in my reply, but no more than "Guess what my only alternative will be".
Maybe you should educate the morons of tomorrow so they'll stop believing the leaders of tomorrow. - Dogbert
"If IE is 'just a web browser' then emacs is 'just a text editor'."
So what will happen to people's existing purchases after the cut-off date? Will they continue to work or will Apple just do what Google has done with their premium video service?
Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
well, they do offer it for free on their own site.
and then there's, you know, the free airwaves.
NBC will provide alternative means to pay for and download your shows. Expect a M$-based solution, which will provide the DRC they're looking for.
While its a blow to Apple, Universal is turning it's back an a huge revenue source. I think Apple is number 3 in all music sales right now. This should be good! Pop some popcorn, Folks, a corporate UFC is about to ensue!
Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
Um, buy it from somewhere other than iTunes? I didn't see NBC announcing they won't be selling shows anymore.
I see this as a HUGE win. I DESPISE the Windows client for iTunes. It is utter crap on the order of the Quicktime client (not as bad as that, but then, nothing is as bad as that). Apple us totally and completely incompetent when it comes to Windows programming.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Your only choice is to steal it, in your little mind. Ever think that your "only choice" is to steal it, watch it @ a friend's house, get cable, or not watch it at all? NAH! Steal it.
...somehow I don't agree with you if you're insisting your only alternative is to steal it. You could sign up for cable. You could wait for the dvd's to come out and buy them. It's ridiculous to assume that stealing is the only option, as well as a right one. You could also just not watch the shows...
Quiz: True or False -- On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your middle name?
These sort of things will continue to happen because both apple and NBC (or insert whatever label/network) are trying to be the distributor and reap the profits that business model. Unfortunately for NBC, Apple has beat them in the new order of distribution and they will loose a ever expanding market if they don't work with them, but unfortunately for Apple the labels and networks still control the content. Sooner or later somebody will figure out how to control (or at least work with) both. I suppose in a utopia independent artists could strike a deal directly with the distributor and avoid the network/label business all together. But, as is the nature of most utopian visions, the devil is in the details.
Oh my god, the company is going to fail. We are about to lose a single viewer...what do we do?
Buy DVD's?
Rent from NetFlix?
Watch it on your Xbox 360?
Or use that crazy thing called an "antenna"?
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Lets face it, Universal own the content, and content rules. They haven't been able to distribute the content how they want with Apple, so they are calling Apples bluff. The thing is, if they market another service well enough (and it does come down to marketing) and that service has the content, then they will get exactly what they want - more than one service selling prime content and therefore a competitive market for selling content meaning better margin for them.
Universal are in a losing situation by having their content in only one marketplace.
As much as I love Apple and their ethics, it was overdue. The only way that Universal can lose is if they fail to market the new service they have selling the content.
OP is a bit naive thinking he won't be able to buy Universal content any more!!
but it's free, has no ads, can be played whenever you want, is available anywhere in the world within hours of showing on air (anywhere in the world) and it can be played on computers, plenty of very cheap DVD players as well as many devices.
Coming soon, iTunes or not: Heroes.S02E01.HDTV.XviD-SOMEONE.avi.torrent
I feel disenfranchised. They will be hearing from my attorney. (Just Kidding)
The game.
Now, assuming I bothered to buy these things and not just do without or wait until they are out on DVD, those are some mixed offerings.
More restrictive DRM would have been bad and caused more issues for legitimate customers (but this is Slashdot and we know that already).
Flexible pricing could have been a good thing, though, assuming it wasn't "we want the ability to flex the price so most episodes are the price they are now but the most recent ones start going up in increments to double the price for the most recent one".
Clearly he means that he'll have to emigrate to the UK where it's broadcast on TV at 9pm.
Still, if that's what it takes to see your favourite shows, that's what commitment is all about.
Deleted
If you miss the episode in the US, book a flight to Paris and download it from there 24 hours after. NBC and TF1, the French broadcaster of Heroes, have signed a deal to put episodes of the second vision on VOD. You'll get the French subtitles as a bonus. C'est fantastique!
Maybe get out of the house and find a girlfriend.
Failing that, at least spend more time surfing for porn.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
I bought an episode of Lost off of iTunes and I didn't even end up watching it because it was in 3:4 aspect ration (no freaking widescreen?!) and there was no option to purchase an HD version. Maybe I'm a bit of a TV tech snob but I need both of those things for my hour long dramas.
In a similar veign, with BSG going into its final year, what are us cable/satellite-free BSG fans to do?
"Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?"
Getting cable.
I'm broke, and I have CHOSEN to not get a job, so my only alternative is to steal? Rubbish.
I have spoken'eth.
Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
Watch it from www.nbc.com/Video/ of course, brought to you by Excedrin® with limited commercial interruptions.
Not really. I live in China, and can get real pirate copies on the street.
>Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes.
>Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
Netflix: Rent-Rip-Return
I'm sure there will be other alternatives like antenna or going somewhere else but the fact remains:
1) I paid for a ton of NBC shows on itunes the last few seasons, literally spending hundreds of dollars. I did this because I liked having them in reasonably high def, commercial free, reasonably close to the time of initial broadcast and using a program I already was comfortable with little or no work on my part past the initial purchase.
2) I had planned to do it again.
3) Now I probably will either not watch the shows at all. The next most likely solution is to download a torrent.
Its not that there arn't other ways to watch it. Its that none of the other ways to watch it provide the right mix of convienence, quality and lack of interruption. Having the shows on itunes didn't give me exactly what I wanted, but it gave me enough that I was willing to pay for it. If I have to install another program(and its associated additional drm and god knows what else), or put up with ads, or put up with low quality broadcasts, or put up with having to watch it at a specific time, or put up with a cable provider/dvr, or wait 6-18 months for a DVD or any of that other stuff, then its just not worth the time or the money.
I want it on my computer, when its released, with minimal hassle and no interruption. For that service, I'm willing to pay. Otherwise, its not worth it.
Watch it for free over-the-air? No such thing in Canada (the channels list is pathetic).
Watch it free on NBC's website? No, they filter IPs and only allow americans.
Buy it on the iTunes Store? Nope, we still don't have movies and TV shows in the Canadian store.
My only other options are either cable or satellite, and both are forcing us to pay for "packages" that include 200 channels we don't want to get the 10 channels we want.
Guess what's my other alternative?
Why make billions, when we can make..... millions?
One of the reasons given was that NBC Universal wanted to add more restrictive DRM to the shows and Apple said no.
If Universal would win that battle, then WE ALL lose out. Remember, this is the same network that f*cked with its time schedule so shows ended at 8:31 and such to try and f*ck Tivo owners. That shows you just what they think about the viewer. I'm sure the new DRM ideas would have us in mind, as in how can we make this experience more painful for the content viewer.
This will just make it more likely that I won't watch NBC shows. I am personally tired of networks dictating what time and where I should be watching their content. That's so last century thinking. Yeah, you can go to NBC.com, if you don't mind being tethered to streaming content, which sucks if you're not on the net when you have time/want to watch a show.
Why?
Added Pressly: "Oh, and by the way, milk is nothing but liquid meat."
I know I'm not new here, but I'd just like to say that the article is self-contradictory. NBC is not pulling anything off of iTunes for months at the earliest, and contract negotiations to keep them on the site continue.
In other words, this article can be summarized as "NBC, looking for some leverage in ongoing negotiations with Apple over iTunes, has called reporters to float the idea of pulling out of iTunes altogether."
E pluribus unum
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
Why does apple have to be the sole vendor of entertainment in the world?
I went to eat some animal crackers and the box said, "Do not eat if seal is broken." I opened the box and sure enough..
I am an ipod/iphone/macbook/apple whatever owner, and I am amazed that people would pay for tv shows through the itunes store, as as a previous poster mentioned, who wants to watch those little 4:3 videos on an ipod anyway or God forbid, on a TV with all the compression...
It's obvious, the old MS-NBC-Universal connection, try to hurt apple if you don't like the rules, take your ball home and see how much fun the game is...
I think that Apple will be just fine without Universal. I wonder how much digital content (if any) Universal will be selling in the next calendar year without Apple...
Ocean is land, covered with water.
I've got to say, I'm pretty lost as to why some people keep making these comments?
I know iTunes and Windows Vista had some issues - but that's not really shocking, considering how many other things aren't quite Vista compatible.
Overall though, geez... Quicktime player has been used in Windows since version 3.1, as a de-facto standard for playing multimedia files off CD. It's not exactly something Apple just "slapped together to say they had a Windows version".
Safari for Windows? Nothing special there, but it's also a very first attempt at doing it for the platform, and it's FREE software too. As others pointed out, it's probably relased right now mainly to allow easier development for the iPhone from a Windows box, plus giving people the option to use the same browser they have on their Mac, if they so desire. Apple's not auto-deleting your copies of Firefox and IE 7 just because you installed it or anything, so why the big fuss?
How sad is it to have a topic on Slashdot where the poor person can get their TV show fix and must get advice?
Seriously it's a TV show and that's it. It's a sad state to be in when missing a TV show causes such issues (I have seen it so much in real life, I missed this show or this sports event and people get VERY angry).
The bigger question is why are you so addicted to a show? Folks it's only a TV show
I just noticed that all the shows on my DVR (Rescue Me, The Riches, Burn Notice, Psych, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia) are not major network shows. How come FX, USA and the like have better-written shows than the big networks? I can't remember the last time I watched a show on NBC.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I'm thinking some of the people who say we can just watch it over the air should pull their heads out of their asses. Not all of us live in the usa or a place where we can get that.
I guess I will be downloading the next series of heros on bittorrent and use the money I save to buy popcorn.
Lets face it, Universal own the content, and content rules
Wrong. Distribution rules in most economic systems. The distributor controls the producer's access to the audience, and the audience's control to the content. As an earlier post above pointed out, iTunes is a different form of distribution, and is therefore a competitor to NBC. But since old media can't figure out how to handle technological and social change, they're paralyzed. They need to make as much money as possible out of alternative means of distributing each episode of Heroes, since broadcast loses another couple percent of its viewership each year.
This does seem like part of a full-court press by all parts of Universal (music, TV, etc.), against iTunes, which strikes me as somewhat silly in the end, because Apple's power (and profits) come from the iPod, not iTunes. Apple probably doesn't care that much if iTunes faces competition, as long as stuff still works on the iPod (and who in their right mind would release in an iPod-incompatible format today? Only Microsoft, and how's that working out for them?). It's like saying that Shutterfly is a mortal threat to iPhoto, since it competes with iPhoto's built-in service to order prints. Guess what? Either way, customers are still buying high-margin Macs and iLife.
Not watch it? Or did you mean, break the law?
If you want to break the law, go ahead. But don't pretend anyone's forcing you to, and accept the consequences of your actions. If you think the law is wrong, protest.
Looks like I'll be bittorrenting it like I usually do.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
A HUGE win for whom? NBC? For shutting down a revenue source? Are you on drugs?
For some other provider? Maybe, if they'll be making money that Apple won't be pulling in any more. Of course, I'm failing to see how that's a "win," that some company that more heavily DRMs content and/or that charges more for the shows (which are the two things that apparently NBC has a problem with) will now be distributing them.
For the consumer? No, we're most certainly going to get screwed more than anyone in this deal.
So? What the hell does that have to do with anything? Personally, I don't mind iTunes so much, and it works pretty well for me. I don't give a damn whether you like it or not; all this is is a pissing match, one that will further fragment media over IP delivery and that will set back all industries a few more years.
A HUGE win, my ass. If you don't like iTunes, then what's your brilliant plan that's so much better? How are our lives going to be better because of this? How will legal content get to us in some better way? You know, better--the state of being a win kind of implies?
The answer is, there is none, because you have no better plan. As far as I can tell, you're just an anti-Apple troll. Normally, I wouldn't care, but in this case, you're actively supporting helping to kill off the budding content-over-Internet delivery industry and missing the bigger picture.
I fail to see how a competitive market is better (better margins) for the competitors. I see how it could be better for the consumer, but I would think the competitors themselves would much prefer a monopoly.
How about "not watching the fucking show"? I get so sick of this argument...no one is forcing you to do a damn thing.
The only good suggestion for the authors comment has been to buy it from somewhere else. That will solve his problem.
Every other suggestion has some fun downside, assuming the author wants to see it near the format he was around the time he was.
Watch for free on regular TV - it will be in lower quality, and they may not get the signal all that well, and they may not even have that channel.
Buy the DVD - this one is great, if you want to watch the episodes 6 months - 1 year after your friends tell you about it.
Watch on the website - the little window is quite small, much lower quality.
Go to a friends house! - this really works, of course, it's not quite the same. This could be said about anything like... I don't have a car! what/?!?! go to your friends house!! He has a car! yay! A PS3 is too expensive for my budget! what?!?!? go to your friends house!! he has a PS3!!
NBC is the controlling interest in Apple customer-friendly intellectual properties like The Office, Battlestar Galactica, My Name is Earl and Heroes.
Did somebody at NBC write this anonymous submission? What the hell is "Apple customer-friendly"? The only thing Apple customer-friendly about these TV programmes was that they were in the iTMS. That's not true any more. And who the hell, apart from a clueless marketroid, calls TV programmes "intellectual properties"?
Why not start a campaign to get NBC to reinstate, or continue, to sell their programs through iTunes?
I'd much rather have them via iTunes at a high resolution (come on... at least DVD quality please!) than have to risk getting busted downloading it via Bittorrent.
If NBC get enough of a response from their customers/the public then they're likely to re-evaluate their current stance.
If they were smart, the networks would have multiple offerings of their content:
1) Standard over-the-air with commercials (local and national)
2) Downloadable versions (multiple formats for PC's, consoles, handhelds, etc.) with national commercials.
3) DVD's with no commercials and extra content
4) Promotional clips (highlights, low res) via YouTube like services
Downloadable content can satisfy viewer demand AND generate revenue for the networks. Possible issues include bandwidth costs (soln: use bittorrent) and complaints by affiliates (soln: request zip codes from downloaders and share ad revenue with affiliates) and possible cannibalization of over-the-air audience (soln: inevitable anyway). As for YouTube and similar - stop fighting it, it's free promotion!! People will use it to view highlights (rather than the full show) - if networks offer a downloadable alternative.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Apple's not auto-deleting your copies of Firefox and IE 7 just because you installed it or anything, so why the big fuss?
Because people like him like to bitch about how badly their choices suck when they are given choices, but they also like to bitch even more about how there aren't any choices when the choices are taken away. Basically, it's simply because they like to bitch.
This guy's the limit!
Well, not really. I don't think NBC's DRM approach is wises for them or good for users but Apple is starting to smell a bit more arrogant thean usual - which is saying a lot. They're a lot like Microsoft was in the early 90's...our way or the highway. It'll be good for them to have a little competition and take them down a notch or two.
PS. iPod's are overpriced and overrated. Buy "generic" and save!
If you want to watch heroes, cannot on cable or broadcast TV or iTunes but still want to pay for it, then I would wait until they come out on DVD or VHS.
It's a simple solution. Actually, once you get 'behind' a season, it is far more pleasurable to watch them on dvd or tape at your leisure without commercials and such.
man tunefs | grep fish
Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?
1. NBC is a OTA broadcast station, you can receive it without cable.
2. Get a OTA Hi-def antenna if you want higher quality, and get it for free.
3. Wait and buy the DVD.
4. Download/buy it from their new partner (whoever they are). I'm sure NBC will NOT stop selling it online, just not through iTunes.
5. Download it from Bit-torrent like my friend and if you feel bad send NBC a check each month.
Yopu for you?
"Plenty of us realize that by pirating our entertainment, we essentially have cut out the ability for them to make more."
... you're killing me.... I can't catch my breath.... I have cut out the ability for them to make...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.
Oh man
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
ha..ha..um.... What a funny funny statement.
I watch Battlestar Gallacatica on my Tivo, and I always skip the commercials... I guessing I'm cutting out the ability to....
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Man. That is wicked funny. You're good. I thought I was good. You're the best.
Of course there are, but they all revolve around NBC wanting more money and more control over how, where and when you can watch their shows.
I bought every season available of Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, The Office, and My Name is Earl on iTunes. I like the shows, but apparently, that's not good enough. Apparently, NBC wants me to be so desperate to watch the shows that I would support their outright greed.
Well I for one am not a slave to my television. Unless NBC shapes up and gives me the opportunity to pay a reasonable price for seeing their shows in a timely manner and in a fashion that I wish, I guess I won't be watching them any more. Oh well, I guess that frees up more time that I can use for other interesting things.
These networks and media companies just kill me. They act like if they only provide one expensive and inconvenient legal avenue for me to watch their shows, I'll just have to suck it up because they say so. Then you have the people like the submitter who imply that they'll just resort to illegal avenues to watch the show.
Everyone seems to be forgetting option number three, the option I'll be choosing should NBC keep this silliness up: Simply don't watch the shows. Frankly, it looks to me like that is NBC's ultimate goal, and if that's the case, I'm happy to oblige.
Do you see what I did there?
Blar.
>OP is a bit naive thinking he won't be able to buy Universal content any more!!
I don't run Windows at home (get enough of it at work)... How much do you want to bet whatever site pops up to sell the show will be WMP10 or similar?
Quite the opposite- you're forgetting where the market is. If they open it up to competition between end providers, it will drive the price, and therefore their margin, down as the two providers compete. This can only be good.
Do you have ESP?
NBC University *might* drop in December. Negotiations are on-going.
So now that there won't be as much stuff in the tubes, does that mean that everything works right and we won't need legislation?
Sweet! I love teh inter-tubes!
If you are willing, buy a low-priced hdtv with an ATSC tuner and a DVR. In my area, over-the-air digital reception is far better than analog reception. All the digital channels come through crystal clear while analog channels are either fuzzy or have ghosting. Use a DVR to record digital channels and you'll question why anyone would buy low-res 320x240 drmed tv shows.
Does this mean that NBC Universal will drop content for all NBC Channels. Correct me if I am wrong, but NBC Universal Cable owns SiFi, USA, and Bravo (no big loss there). NBC also has distribution rights for A&E, History Channel, Biography, National Geographic, and Sundance. Does this mean that all their channels will disappear from iTunes?
I am surprised no one has pointed it out yet that this is not illegal. It was settled in 1983 over the VTR issue in Sony Corporation of America et al. v. Universal City Studios, Inc., et al. - if it goes out on public airwaves the public has a right to use it! They are giving you a personal use license just by broadcasting it. As long as you aren't profiting you can record it and play it back later or play back part of it later. If you want to get a copy via bit torrent it is no different than someone recording it to "VTR" or VCR and pressing pause during commercials.
Get a web developer
I primarily record shows via Over the Air digital broadcasts. I use MythTV, and record the HD versions of Office and Earl. So, I'm mostly self sufficient.
But, occasionally there is a problem with MythTV, my guide data, or the station's broadcast. In those cases, iTunes was a great secondary option. I could get missed episodes at a reasonable price, with decent viewing options (Laptop, iPod/iPhone, HTPC, AppleTV). I bought maybe four or five episodes last year. It's a shame to see these go.
I have tried the various streaming options from the broadcasters before. Both the pre-recorded programs, and live broadcast (e.g. NCAA final four games available from CBS streaming). I have found every instance of these to be too poor to actually watch. There are often problems even getting a video stream working, if it does start it doesn't last long before stopping, and in the rare case that I got a reliable stream - the video is a tiny lo-res thumbnail. No Thanks.
"Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?"
Buy the DVD/HD-DVD?
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
Universal are in a losing situation by having their content in only one marketplace.
The above statement makes sense, until you realize that the one marketplace for their content is the most popular marketplace for content by an extremely large margin. When that single market is the largest, the rules change. For example, an awful lot of fortunes have been made in software by companies that "limited" themselves by developing only for Windows.
These greedy-ass media companies just can't leave well-enough alone. By pulling stuff from iTunes they're only hurting themselves. What are they gonna do, adopt Windows DRM and put it on another, less-popular store that will just close up a year later when Microsoft's media strategy changes direction again? Other online music/movie stores come and go, but iTunes remains the rock in a turbulent sea.
I can't help but wonder if MS was in the wings singing the praises of the WM DRM....
It's too bad the big media companies just don't f**king get the truth/reality of digital media: folks who are willing to pay will pay as long as it isn't overly restrictive and easy to use. The people that steal/share "illegal" copies are not going to pay no matter what. You might as well sell your product to the people that are willing to pay for it.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Die, Apple.
Hey, Apple, I'm in the UK and buying Heroes or BSG (assuming they were available on UKiTunes) as low-res, DRM-infested downloads would cost about the same as getting the shiny DVDs from Amazon - better quality (and only the DRM equivalent of a wet paper bag that is CSS).
If a series is worth paying money for, its worth waiting for the DVDs (and you'd probably want a whole season) so I don't really give a stuff.
Where iTunes might come in is if you have missed an episode but that doesn't really figure if you're not following it on broadcast anyway.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Seriously everyone calm down. These companies produce these shows to make money. No one is saying you have no choice but to watch these shows. If they decide to no longer offer a product then that is their choice.
Do you all scream bloody murder if a drink company decides to no longer offer one of their drinks in bottles?
In the words of Jascha Heifetz, No matter what side of the argument you are on, you always find people on your side that you wish were on the other.
It seems to me that the real dispute boils down to NBC Universal wanting to charge more for shows and bundle popular shows with other, presumably not so popular, shows. I don't really want to pay more for shows, don't they get enough via my cable fees already? And I don't want to have to download some other, probably horrid, show to get the one I really want. So I guess that makes Apple the hero in my book for standing up for what I, the customer, wants. Granted, Apple wants to sell more iPods, but I think NBC Universal is clearly ignoring what their customers really want.
I personally don't want to resort to means of dubious legality to watch the shows I like, so I simply won't be watching if seeing what I want becomes an unpalatable experience. I remember a number of years ago having a problem with my cable service, but once I threatened to cancel the service altogether, they quickly came around and fixed the problem. I suppose NBC Universal will have to learn this the hard way.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
I really dont get the media companies, they force more and more restrictions that only affect the people who legitimately purchase the product. Simple copy protection is sufficient to discourage the "casual copying" that the average consumer might attempt. Those that want to pirate it for more devious plans will find a way regardless so in effect the only people punished are those that suddenly find they cant move the file from their desktop to their laptop, back it up to a disk, run it from a media server, etc.
Dear NBC,
I never would have caught on to Heroes if it weren't for iTunes. I don't watch network TV much and if it weren't for iTunes I never would have heard about it or caught up with the storyline. I know it was available on your web site,but I'm just not gonna watch television in a web browser. I got friends into Heroes, they downloaded most of season 1 via iTunes.
Also, having been introduced to Scrubs by Comedy Central I was thinking about downloading some favorite episodes from iTunes. I don't exactly feel like it after this announcement.
Face it the old ways don't work anymore. I wasn't introduced to either Heroes or Scrubs by watching it on NBC. I buy your DVDs, I bought 8 episodes of Heroes on iTunes. I'm willing to pay for your content, if your willing to give me a little choice and flexibility as to where I buy it and where I watch it. Is that really such a hard bargin for you to strike with me?
I have to say it felt like you kicked me in the teeth with this announcement, as I just yesterday bought the Heroes DVD set. This is how you repay me.
Sincerely,
Someone who wants to buy your product, if you won't be a prick.
"Hey NBC: I have chosen not to have cable, but want to pay you for Heroes. Guess what my only alternative will be if you pull it from iTunes?"
Use Netflix? You may get your shows months (a year?) after they are initially published but you get them uncut and DVD quality. I'm a Battlestar fan myself and after watching some iTunes versions I realized that they cut out some parts to fit in the commercials. Plus SciFi doesn't do HD yet. I'm seriously considering forgetting about next year's season and the following year just renting them all at once. Yeah it's hard to wait but possibly worth it.
Wait until it comes out on DVD, of course.
Television networks first and foremost sell audiences to advertisers. Content is merely a vehicle with which to build those audiences. Side projects like ITunes need to be profitable -- benefit must outweigh cost, and kudos to NBC for recognizing this.
Is this really such a big deal?
So one has Universal vs. Disney. One also has Universal-owned NBC vs. Disney-owned ABC. NBC and Microsoft have been in business together for a while (and look at the product placements in programs like Trump's The Apprentice.) Uni are the ones who get Microsoft to give them some money for the Zune. Disney/ABC/Pixar and Apple have strong ties.
So this is another stream in a corporate pissing match. Not having a fancy MBA from some school, I guess I don't understand why sellers think it's a good idea to cut out certain markets.
Wait... all this time, could it actually be that people up at Uni really believe that piracy is the problem? Collect the grosses is show biz's first guideline. Rule #1 is don't believe your press releases.
Some important information was lost in TFA: This is based on information coming from an anonymous source at NBS who didn't want to give their name (probably to avoid certain loss of their job). The current contract between NBC and Apple is running until December, and that is how long they have to sort out any problems.
What really is going on is at this moment pure speculation. Best case is, someone from NBC made a phone call to someone at Apple and told them "we want ten percent more money, or we won't renew the contract". Worst case is the lawyers sent a letter officially cancelling the contract with a note "don't call us; we won't call you". But nobody knows which one.
and read a book, dammit
Luke;
Luke;...
Turn off the TV...! Turn off the TV!
There is life out there other than NBC.
Turn off the TV!
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
A major content company, which doesn't understand what's going on, takes another step towards obsolescence.
Morons.
The RIAA, the television networks and all of the other major content companies need to realize that their old distribution model, which was based on a relative paucity of what we would consider bandwidth, is over. And they will either adapt, or die.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Do you really want to pay for what you can get for free anyway? I think NBC realized that they were not making the kind of money they expected to on iTunes for TV shows and they also are loosing site traffic.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.h tml
"Apple® today announced that it will not be selling NBC television shows for the upcoming television season on its online iTunes® Store (www.itunes.com). The move follows NBC's decision to not renew its agreement with iTunes after Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99. ABC, CBS, FOX and The CW, along with more than 50 cable networks, are signed up to sell TV shows from their upcoming season on iTunes at $1.99 per episode."
Universal are in a losing situation by having their content in only one marketplace.
So they're going to improve their situation by pulling their content out of that marketplace?
The only way that Universal can lose is if they fail to market the new service they have selling the content.
... and let's look at their marketing strategy... to pull their content from the only online media store that's been particularly successful, and prevent their content from playing on the dominant mobile media platform (iPod).
Doesn't sounds like a good start to me...
Apple owns the online music business and dictates its terms to music companies. ATM, buying shows online is a tiny market because you can get much better quality via watching it on tv or buying dvds/hddvd/bluray.
Hddvd and bluray are fighting it out for physical media, but 5-10 years down the road compression and bandwidth could get to the point that people can buy the shows online with the same high quality. (This is what Microsoft aiming for). When/if it gets to that point, NBC doesn't want Apple to have the same power over it as they do with the music market.
huh hello. Am I the only one who thinks that it is normal that NBC/Universal is pulling its stuff from itunes considering that they announced yesterday their own online video site: www.hulu.com ? source: http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/29/ap406570 5.html and a gazillion others...
"The move follows NBC's decision to not renew its agreement with iTunes after Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99"
n/t
--- What?
I do not have cable either. As I refuse to pay $80 to watch 2 stations 5 months out of the year.
All my viewing is done via Netflix or iTunes. These stupid companies are so concerned about losing profits to downloading that they almost force customers to do so.
(And I actually don't think downloading is the problem, I think they're just losing profits - and illegal downloading is just an easy scape goat for CEOs to blame for their poor management).
But they're essentially forcing me to illegally download the TV shows because I can no longer buy them. That's really smart.
Best email address I could find for responding to them: NBCUniSupport@nbcuni.com
I TIVO most stuff and skip past the commercials unless they look interesting. If I miss something or learn about a new show after it's started (Flash Gordon, Saving Grace, Burn Notice, Robin Hood all found out about after they started) then I download it and setup a season pass to get the new ones. Yup, Torrent has no commercials but if the studios offered Torrents of these shows WITH commercials in something that wasn't DRM'd then I'd watch them just like I do TIVO. If the commercial sux blip blip blip and if it doesn't or I forget then I see the commercial and ponder the product. I have an aTV too and I'm working to hack it into an HD version of my XBMC'd XBOX - sorry but paying for something I could just as easily have recorded is nutz to me. Put it out there with commercials for free and you've at least got a fighting chance that I'll see the commercial....
Meh, makes too much sense for them to do it!
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
The biggest advantage to me of buying the shows was time-shifting. I get pretty good over-the-air reception of NBC but sometimes I'm not home or just don't want to bother stopping what I'm doing. But I do like certain NBC shows (30 Rock is really funny). I knew I could just buy an episode I missed and watch it when I wanted. NBC got the money and I got what I wanted.
Now I guess I'll just setup a DVR and get the shows that way. And since DVRs are great at skipping commercials, NBC will get even less than they did before--they won't get my money, and they won't get any ad impressions either.
Good luck to the networks. In the next 5 years they're facing declining viewership, declining ad sales, declining DVD sales, and yet they seem intent on limiting alternative revenue streams.
I guess they're worried that people could break the FairPlay DRM and share iTunes shows over the Internet? Well guess what--DVRs again. It's even easier to pull a sharable video file that way.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Get over it. It will be back, but under their control. They are creating a joint venture with Fox to distribute their shows online.
Looks simple to me. You'll have to go to NBC.com to get the shows. Big f'n deal. It makes sense. NBC has the power to freely advertise "go watch the show online at NBC.com!" Why should they be giving free advertising and traffic to iTunes? Cut out the middle man.
If they were dealing with a commodity product, and an open free marketplace, yes. They aren't and it's not. Apple is strongarming the media companies over price and DRM for both music and video, and has been for a while. Most likely, on hulu or wherever heroes season 2 pops up, it will be a different pricing model.
Point of order: Apple has good products but terrible ethics, and always has. Given the opportunity, they would be ethically far worse than Microsoft ever was. I use and love my Mac because it's a great computer, not because it was sold to me by angels.
Oh yeah, that's right, that other big company just screwed them by going to wal-mart with DRM mp3s.... who was that? UNIVERSAL.
I think it's more like, iTMS drops NBC!
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/a pple-responds-to-nbc-wont-offer-upcoming-fall-seas on-shows/11321
Anonymous Coward
That's what the headline should read! http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/app le-responds-to-nbc-wont-offer-upcoming-fall-season -shows/11321
Karma Schmarma
...but start following the trail and you'll eventually find Microsoft's slimey fingers all over this (like they are all over the faux-SCO circus that's been annoying us since 2003). This is not as much a display of comtemptible (sp?) greed as the latest attempt by MS to hurt Apple, which has successfully prevented MS from getting another monopoly, this time over content format & delivery. Had that happened, billg would have been closer to his stated goal of being the gatekeeper to the internet, getting a cut for every transaction happening on the 'net. (or was that steveb's?)
It's funny how the biggest critics of Apple seem to prefer using MS proprietary formats (wma, wmv) AND to use Windows+MSIE bound access/download tools.
"This really upsets me that they would do this to their paying customers"
According to Ars, the issue is that they want you to pay more. A LOT more. To quote, "Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99."
So how does $5 a pop sound? At that rate, a typical series would cost over $100 purchased digitally, as opposed to buying the DVDs for $30-$50.
One thing's for sure, if hulu has this kind of idiotic pricing structure, then it's just SURE to be a success...
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
That's exactly how I feel. This "deal" might not end up being much but marketing and aggressive negotiation tactics. But if it's not I will gladly pirate the shows. Right now I prefer paying, it's convenient and mostly fairly priced (in the newish/emerging technology sense of the word fair). I pay $2 for a short program that I can download immediately without the delays or the failed trackers or any of the other messy stuff.
It pisses me of that corporations either make unavailable (and shitty little flash players don't count), unreasonably restrictive or unfairly priced media then turn around and complain because the market is doing exactly what you would predict it to do.
So fuck it. It's not like my Ubuntu laptop or Windows XP desktop don't have working copies of Tor installed. And those 'you wouldn't steal' commercials are practically begging for me to do it anyway. Insult your consumer with a brain-damaged idiotic commercial. That's golden. What with the lobbying and copyright extension WHO really is stealing? We just all seem to be using different means.
Quack, quack.
Oh, don't be a moron. Of course they do. I live in a house on a (small) plot of land I own (no HOA in sight) and I have a 15-20 minute drive to work every day.
Or did you mean "if you want to work in a big city"? 'Cause that's entirely your choice. If you're willing to live like us, out in the sticks (Oh no! We don't have a Starbucks on every corner! We only get 4Mbps/768Kbps cable internet!), you can live a lot closer to where you work, have a comfortable standard of living, and still not live crushed by debt your whole life.
People who assume that everyone lives in a city—or, worse, that everyone wants to live in a city—really bug me...
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
NBC Universal, Apple in Battle Over Content Available on ITunes
Apple Inc. escalated a dispute with NBC Universal over the pricing of television shows by announcing Friday it would not sell any of NBC's programs for this fall season on iTunes.
Earlier, NBC had told Apple that it would no longer allow its programs to be sold via iTunes at the end of the year. NBC Universal-controlled television programming accounts for an estimated 40 percent of the video downloads on iTunes.
"We are disappointed to see NBC leave iTunes because we would not agree to their dramatic price increase," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of iTunes. "We hope they will change their minds and offer their TV shows to the tens of millions of iTunes customers."
Rather than cut off NBC programs in the middle of the season, Apple decided to stop before the new fall episodes premiere next month, he said.
That would be a blow to fourth-place NBC, which could use the buzz provided by Internet sales for its programming -- not to mention the money.
Except it's not stealing and never has been. If you want to act morally superior, you should start by not telling lies.
He's saying he won't be able to buy it the same way CmdrTaco used to claim he couldn't watch Quicktime videos (but he could somehow play Diablo II). They're both full of crap. CmdrTaco could (and apparently actually did) install Windows, and Zonk could (and might) get cable/satellite installed. It's just a bunch of posturing.
In fact, I have a hard time believing he ever bought it in the first place. I'd seriously bet he always downloaded it from torrent sites as he's now threatening to do. Like I said: posturing.
From Apple press release.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Install Azureus. Go here.
Enjoy your show. Realize that you've "stolen" nothing, as you've had precisely the same effect on NBC's bottom line as if you'd never heard of the show in the first place. That is, none at all. Feel no guilt, as you tried to pay NBC anyway, because you're a good person, but they removed the option of taking your money. Stop worrying about scolds on Slashdot. If they want to pay for DRM'd products a year late, let them. It's not your concern, just as you enjoying a show you like for free without harming anyone is none of theirs.
Hmm, $5 per Show, 4 times the month= 20$
HBO subscription = 12$
Save $8 and watch better shows!
If the show brings in 10s of millions (which many do) I would expect them to share the profit with the cast & crew.
Also, when most of that $1M goes to sets (e.g. Rome) versus salaries I am thrilled that the set design crew is getting paid.
Sienfeld level salaries are bogus, but there are plenty of good reasons why the episode should cost so much. Plus, every member of the cast/crew should get royalties on the back-end.
I watch NBC quite a bit, but not for any of the shows mentioned in this story. Last season I purchased a USB tuner stick and a copy of EyeTV. Forget watching low-res iTunes versions of the shows. I recorded them and watched them in full HD quality. Granted, each show after trimming out commercials to bring it down to about 44 minutes will barely fit on one single-layer DVD but my god they look gorgeous on a cinema display.
If I happened to miss recording one I could always either wait for it to rerun or simply grab it from a torrent site. For Studio 60 most of the torrent rips seemed to be from Canada, presumably because the show aired on Sunday rather than on Monday. Quality was not quite the original MPEG-2 1080i but the re-encoding (Xvid I think?) was not that bad and the whole thing still looked far better than what NBC sold on iTunes.
I really don't get why NBC is so concerned about DRM though. Their shows are already broadcast and recordable (quite legally) by anybody and distributing them over the internet is at best a gray area. In other words, the content is already quite readily available so the best thing for NBC to do is realize this and convince someone like myself that for say $2 I can avoid doing the recording myself and just buy the show whenever I feel like it.
All the legislation in the world will never change the fact that I'm already able to record the shows using the hardware I've already purchased. The "broadcast flag" is never going to happen no matter how hard they push for it. Even if they get such a dogpile passed it won't change anything since boxes will be modifiable. In the case of the USB tuner sticks the MPEG-2 stream goes directly in through the USB port. It's entirely up to the software program to enforce any restrictions that may be flagged in the MPEG transport stream.
I have a feeling though that rightly or wrongly, NBC isn't targeting people like me since we're already aware that the shows can be recorded in full over the air. NBC is clearly trying to convince people who aren't aware that you can receive and record their programming for free. It still amazes people when I tell them I get HD programming for free. Hell, depending on where you're at you don't even need a spectacularly good antenna. I've got a $20 indoor VHF/UHF model I bought at Wal-Mart. I set my parent's bedroom TV up with a short piece of coax with a 75/300 balun screwed onto the opposite end. The little leads on that balun are enough to receive HD!
Another friend of mine has a DirectTV DVR box. Those boxes have ATSC/NTSC inputs and after a bit of prodding I convinced him to just do what I did and pick up a cheap antenna. He swore it would never work due to all the interference from Norfolk Naval Station. Guess what? It works. And because it's hooked into his DVR he's able to record from it as if it were a satellite signal. Perhaps that's why DirectTV isn't so interested in running local HD signals over their bandwidth. It's basically unnecessary since most people can pick up HD TV directly from their antenna with a very clear signal.
I bought last years season of BSG on itunes, and since I don't have a TV alluc.org it is....
Brilliant move NBC, brilliant!
Basic internet googling reveals the average Superbowl 30 second tv spot costs 2.4 million.
Roughly 90 million viewers watch the Superbowl at any given time. (Up to 140 million see some of it)
So, an advertiser pays roughly $0.0267 per viewer to the network.
Multiply that cost by 20 thirty second spots in an hour of prime time TV, and the network gets a little over 50 cents per viewer.
Now, I don't know how much NBC is currently getting out of each show sold, but if they think they need another $3.00, they are crazy.
Playing the victim in this case is pretty pathetic.
Mmmm.. Donuts
I've been thinking about this issue since the Napster days, and it seems to me that there will be two general results from this technological shift.
The first is that the advertising model for mass media will die, as will the pay-per-view/listen model. Product placement will try to perpetuate it for a while, but digital signals are easily manipulated to cut them out. The hackers of the world are just way too fast with workarounds. In their place we'll probably see the shows/music/movies given away for free and freely traded, with merchandising making up the bulk of revenues. There will be cheap knock-offs from China, but physical goods are more easily policed.
The second result will arise while the first is working itself out. That is, since today's content providers are punishing consumers for wanting their products, or making it more bother than it's worth, more and more consumers will switch from being passive audiences to creators of varying degrees, or to more active hobbies.
Since the RIAA jihad began I woke up to the fact that their music is mostly crap, or that I've heard the good stuff so many times that I'm sick of it (thinking of the Pink Floyd I used to love). So I took up the guitar. I can't play that much, and I don't play that well, but I can do it well enough for my own enjoyment, and the satisfaction I get from it is greater by far than listening to the most amazing Waters solo ever was. That is, it scratches the itch to hear music. And I will never buy another CD, track from iTunes, or go to another concert for as long as I live. They've lost me as a customer for good, because I learned to be self-sufficient.
I also think of my grandparents, who grew up during the Great Depression before our media culture arose (they were also too poor to have radios). They have very little use for TV, because they just can't sit down and do nothing for that long. We always tried as kids to get them to sit down and watch Disney movies with us, and after 10 minutes they'd hop up and start doing chores or crafts; my grandfather would go out to his workshop and build furniture, and my grandmother would work in her garden. They grew up with different habits. So, if the media outlets make passive consumption too much of a bother, not a few people will wake up, realize that passive consumption is a waste of time, and form other habits to use their free time. Many of those habits will be a lot more productive and satisfying.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I am completely with you. I LIKE paying for the new My Name is Earl episodes, and watching them on my own schedule. I don't like waiting for the DVDs, I am too busy to watch the shows when they air, and I refuse to sign up for an inferior/alternative download service just because Universal doesn't like Apple. The truth is that I'm not going to start pirating the shows, I'm just going to start watching something else. Will I come back to these shows when they inevitably return in 2008? I'm not sure. For now, NBC/Universal just lost $2/episode from me.
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
The only way that Universal can lose is if they fail to market the new service they have selling the content.
Or if they price themselves out of the market. Personally, I think their proposed $5 is a bit too high for an individual show. I won't pay it. For the cost of a season of a show, at that rate, I can buy a low-end DVR anyway.
When did the future switch from being a promise to a threat? -C. Palahniuk
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Apple's stock is actually up, though marginally right now, so investors don't seem to worried about this.
My guess is that NBC Universal are trying to get a better deal, so they are "announcing" that the contract is dead.
Now they'll spend the next several months hammering out a new deal with Apple and there wil be an announcement sometime
in November that the NBC/Apple deal is back on.
iTunes is a behemoth of digital media downloads. Downloads are a great way to get more viewers to new shows, especially
with the new trend towards serialized shows. Until NBC actually pulls its content in December, don't believe it is going to happen.
If they really wanted out, they'd have found a way top pull them now.
And from the same press release, the reason Apple aren't taking up the "offer" to distribute NBC's content is because they want the price to rise from $2 to $5!
Which planet are these people (NBC, not Apple) from ?
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
Did Universal have an *exclusive* digital distribution contract with iTunes? I don't think so - I seem to recall seeing music from Universal being available on Yahoo!. I think it's really more of an issue of these companies' hubris thinking they can out-market Apple - I don't see that happening anytime soon.
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
I wish I had some mod points, even though you're anonymous and already 5: Insightful.
burrocrisy
and that would be what? Ruling by jackasses? Never has a slashdot misspelling been more apropos
To be fair, QuickTime and iTunes were (and to some extent still are) DOG SLOW on Windows. They also use non-standard widgets, but that's just to have a similar look and feel to their Mac counterparts. Native applications that serve similar purposes are usually much more responsive and tend to fit in better with the standard look and feel of Windows. Unless you're talking about software from China/Japan/Taiwan; those guys must be fucking colorblind.
Oh, I dunno? Buy them on DVD, or even rent the damn DVD. It's coming out soon as far as I've heard. I don't really know. I chose long ago to dump cable TV ($50+/month? In my personal opinion, anyone willing to pay $600/year so someone else gets to shove ads down your throat is nuts) and I don't bother downloading TV shows from the net. It isn't worth it. A close friend of mine used to torrent Heroes episodes he missed, until she got a DMCA takedown letter from NBC Universal through her ISP. I had to talk him down because he was petrified he was going to get sued and kicked out of school for it.
If the show is good, you'll know about it, and the DVD will be out soon if you REALLY want to pay for them. Learn some patience. You'll avoid wasting a lot of bandwidth on crappy shows by just waiting for that DVD release. It's getting sooner and sooner these days. Hell, you can even rent the DVD and do what thou wilt with it if you feel like sticking it to the man or something.
If some content creator doesn't release your material in a format that you want to use their material in, the only really effective way is to just ignore the damn content, and don't jump through hoops to get it. Make them come to you. If they don't care to give you stuff the way you want it, go to someone that will. Oh right, I forgot. You simply can't LIVE without watching Heroes. You'll just DIE if you don't know what's happening in your super magic fantasy sci-fi soap opera of the day. My bad.
I've got exactly one legitimate complaint - the videos require ~2GHz of CPU horses to play in Windoze, which is fucking ridiculous. I can play DVDs fine on my old Pentium III. The fact that iTunes shows fail miserably on the same platform points to some extreme inefficiencies. To this I heartily say, "suck it, Apple."
Buying them legally from a store might also be another idea, novel as it may be.
Let me offer a variation on that. Buy them legally from a different online store. Why is it that only Apple can offer such products, why is a defacto monopoly by Apple OK? If NBC doesn't like Apple's terms they should backout, contract with a competitor who they can come to terms with, or start their own.
Personally I see history repeating itself. Apple pioneers something, validates the product or business model, develops a commanding lead with early adopters, then missteps and get beaten by others as the bulk of the market beings using the product or service. Apple has "been there, done that" with respect to personal computers, the graphical interface, etc. I wish it were otherwise, I wish Apple could come to terms and maintain their position as the bulk of the market enters, as they may have with iPod - we aren't that far beyond early adopters though, but its Apple so I am not optimistic - changing their position would go against Steve's vision.
I don't know what idiot came through and modded the posts in this thread flamebait, but I totally agree with your sentiment. I'm thinking that for Apple's long-term success, it might very well be worth their while to get into the content production business, not just content delivery.
It seems like from most people's comments, there are three main factors at play which determine their preference for viewing video content:
1. Convenience
2. Cost
3. Quality
The weight we all place on each of these varies.
For me, I'm not too picky about quality, but I'm lazy, so I want it to be convenient to obtain. I'm also cheap, so there's a limited threshold for how much I'll pay for content. With this combination of weights for the above variables, the iTMS fits my needs well. I'll go to the iTMS before going with Bittorrent every time. The streaming content on the web occasionally does also. This usually beats out iTMS for me if the service is reliable enough. Unfortunately, NBC's streaming service sucks severely. The applet is crappy, the streaming is sketchy and the selection is limited. ABC, otoh, has a pretty good streamer dealie. The fullscreen mode works well, most shows are available, and they're even adding HD quality video now. CBS is somewhere in the middle. All three have limited commercials, and I don't mind sitting through them. usually there'll be about 3 ads per episode, and I can deal with that.
I don't have cable or dish service. I moved in June and still haven't hooked up the bunny ears to the TV. I have been watching all my TV and movies on the lappy. I usually have at least one season subscription through the iTMS at any given time, sometimes two. Most recently it was Ice Road Truckers and before that The Office (I have purchased all seasons of it from ITMS).
Now that The Office won't be available at iTMS and either won't be available at nbc.com or if it is will be too annoying to watch, the next rung on my ladder will be to get the torrent.
While I may have occasional twinge of guilt when getting non-network torrents or movies, I don't have many qualms about getting torrents of network TV episodes. For me, I view this as the equivalent of watching a friend's Tivoed episode. The network stations send these out on the airwaves for anyone to watch without paying, and if someone captures this content and then shares it with me, I don't view it much differently than if I captured it myself to watch at a later time.
If NBC happens to beef up their streaming service and expand their offerings and make their streamer dealie not a piece of crap, I'll probably ditch the torrents and get my fix from NBC.com.
Still, it's disappointing that The Office will not be available at iTMS. It's probably one of the few shows I would consider paying money for even if available through a decent streaming service.
Last summer, the execs at NBC Universal announced something they call "NBCU 2.0."
You see, fewer and fewer people are watching broadcast television, as cable space grows ever larger and there are more and more programs compete for viewer eyes. Additionally, there is the Internet and Internet use is siphoning off more viewers. The NBCU executives, in their infinite wisdom decreed it was time to create a new model for the company that would take advantage of what is happening in the television/Internet marketplace.
So they initiated this by playing a game I like to call "follow the loser." They emulated the FOX network by putting up "reality" shows (competitive bug eating, for example) instead of expensive situation comedies and ensemble-cast dramas. Within one season, their ratings dropped to the cellar for entertainment. NBC also didn't do "Sports." They paid big bucks for the Olympics but that's once every four years. Instead of football, they had Arena football, which is a poor cousin. They didn't broadcast baseball and they dumped the NBA. To the extent NBC did sports, it was usually the same kind of stuff that used to be relegated to ESPN2: Extreme Games and other pranks.
So Entertainment and Sports essentially died for NBC.
I worked in the "News" division at the time and, although they were on top in the ratings, everyone's ratings were sinking.
So, if there's a way that NBC can shoot itself in the foot, they're doing it and anyone who questions NBC's aim or strategy is immediately marked for dismissal
What NBC wants to not do is to share any money with Apple. They want it all for themselves. So, by the time this contract runs out, look for NBC to make downloads available from their internet site, MSNBC. NBC will probably charge more than Apple charges for the downloads. And they'll keep all of the money.
Of course, what NBC is not figuring is how convenient it is to download material from the iTunes Music Store. And NBC will find their "after air" online syndication to be a failure. And there will be no way to see how their offerings stack up against those of the other networks (like one can find out on the ITMS in seconds, as a third-party vendor can keep track for you).
Also, look for NBCU to embed commercials into their downloads. And force you to watch them. Also look for the downloads to not be compatible with the Apple iPod without some conversion. I wonder if they'll work easier on Microsoft's Zune...
I was laid off as a part of "NBCU 2.0." As far as I can tell, this new initiative by NBC Universal is designed to lower all costs of production without trying to create any compelling thing for the viewer to watch. The success of HBO's series "The Sopranos" shows what can happen when you create compelling content. NBC executives don't subscribe to that model. Instead, they're intent on cutting staff and making cheap shows.
Since I was laid off, I note that ABC has overtaken NBC in the evening news ratings.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
After NBC said "nah, you can't have the shows after december", Apple basically said "fuck you, we'll stop right NOW..." http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.h tml
spoiler: no shows of this season running on iTunes.
This is like a car where the engine... oh well... nevermind.
MSNBC what does the MS stand for? Micro$oft. It is quite obvious why M$NBC is getting out of it's contract with Apple isn't it. M$ teamed up with microsoft for anything isn't this a conflict of interest? The M$ part of M$NBC obviously would want to sell the M$NBC shows for it's own player the Zune! Hello!
What about iTunes, the iPod, iPhone, iTv iMean Apple TV? Doesnt that make so much more sense?
Ok, ok, I know you got a slow connection. On the other hand it's just a bad excuse for not giving much as you get. If you make use of BitTorrent to pirate something you feel is "moral", you should suck it up and help others do what they think is moral.
Or are you telling me that if a coworker missed a show, and you have downloaded it, you will refuse to give it to him because "it would be piracy"? Always get that 1:1 or better ratio, man!
I lost my sig.
Hey Mr. Obvious:
#1) Where did you see MS anything in the story other than in your infantile musings? and
#2) Microsoft sold its controlling share of MSNBC to NBC Universal almost 2 years ago!
Are all of you cogenital liars or just delusional?
and have no one see them. I do not own a TV, will not own a TV, but I do like to catch Heroes via iTunes.
Not to mention ignorant.
I have a tech job—not at a tech company, but as a member of the IT department of a small insurance company. Everyone needs IT.
You seem to have a seriously skewed view of what life outside the city is like. There is a lot of America that is not part of a Major Metropolitan Area. I live about 15 minutes from an aging city (its heyday was about 50 years ago) that's pretty small, for a city. And there are plenty of jobs out here. I mean, not enough that I could quit my job right now and get snapped up in an instant, but enough that if I lost my job now I wouldn't be overly worried about finding a new one.
And the lower cost of living is very real. I know that in some MMAs the "middle class" is around $100K (or so I've heard). Here, you can live very comfortably on more like $60K.
If you like the city life, that's fine: that's purely a matter of personal preference. Personally, I can't stand cities. But I'm telling you, the whole country is not rural Montana. Upstate NY is hardly the most economically booming area in the country, and there's plenty of jobs here outside cities.
Open your eyes, and open your mind, and you'll be surprised at what you see.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
For a show that is broadcast over the airwaves for "free", what is the difference between:
1. Watching the show via the OTA broadcast, but completely ignoring or getting up and avoiding the advertising.
2. Downloading the show without advertising (in whatever resolution is available) via, say bit torrent.
Either way, I do not see ads, so any money they spent on them has gone to waste. What is the difference that makes one legal and the other "illegal"?
Aside from the 1st one can't be monitored and enforced.
Although I agree that a little friction here is great, on the other hand these guys have proven themselves over and over again to be really, really stupid bastards, and I find it quite hard to believe they can do it on their own. I just don't think they're competent enough.
And deep down, I think they know that.
expandfairuse.org
...to get what they want out of apple. I doubt the studio would just give up on an already proven revenue source so quickly if they didn't believe they could get a better compromise out of apple. Most probably 1 or most of their demands is simply chips added to the pot to make their bluff sound more believeable should they be called on to show their hand. In all likely hood, they will probably back down, strategically, from some of their demands in order to push the ones they really want forward. After all, they know that apple needs them just as much as they want to sell their content.
;)
well... that's how I would play it if I were them.
In the end, it boils down to wanting to arrest people for eating their egg from the wrong end.
That's pretty gross, and I can't see how the digestive process would work by "eating" their egg with your butt.
...when they see the much-rumored 6G iPod video with its big full-screen display that is actually quite readable. NBC would be amazingly obtuse to miss out on selling TV episodes as "showcase" pieces for this new iPod.
NBC needs to realize that if it weren't for the iTunes Music Store such shows like The Office would have been cancelled from NBC a LONG time ago.
... for Universal, using NBC as a sock puppet, to spring this on Apple just before Apple rolls out their new video iPods next week.
Kinda makes one think that this is a personal vendetta on the part of Universal (for their inability to force Apple to do their bidding on music download pricing) to stick it to Apple and twist the knife a bit.
NBC's been on the road to the corporate dumpster for quite a while now, so I guess that Universal sees them as expendable.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Overall though, geez... Quicktime player has been used in Windows since version 3.1, as a de-facto standard for playing multimedia files off CD. It's not exactly something Apple just "slapped together to say they had a Windows version".
Have you ever used Quicktime for Windows, as that's exactly what it looks like. Little to no effort was put into making Quicktime look and behave like a Windows application. Pretty much all of Apple's software for Windows looks and acts like it was just slapped together to get a Windows version out there.
I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in this thread, but saw it come through other RSS feeds of mine.
h tml
Shortly after Apple heard this, they dropped NBC from the next season completely.
Press release link: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.
Press release text:
iTunes Store To Stop Selling NBC Television Shows
CUPERTINO, California--August 31, 2007--Apple® today announced that it will not be selling NBC television shows for the upcoming television season on its online iTunes® Store (www.itunes.com). The move follows NBC's decision to not renew its agreement with iTunes after Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99. ABC, CBS, FOX and The CW, along with more than 50 cable networks, are signed up to sell TV shows from their upcoming season on iTunes at $1.99 per episode.
"We are disappointed to see NBC leave iTunes because we would not agree to their dramatic price increase," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of iTunes. "We hope they will change their minds and offer their TV shows to the tens of millions of iTunes customers."
Apple's agreement with NBC ends in December. Since NBC would withdraw their shows in the middle of the television season, Apple has decided to not offer NBC TV shows for the upcoming television season beginning in September. NBC supplied iTunes with three of its 10 best selling TV shows last season, accounting for 30 percent of iTunes TV show sales.
Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning computers, OS X operating system and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital media revolution with its iPod portable music and video players and iTunes online store, and has entered the mobile phone market this year with its revolutionary iPhone.
I have to agree, people complain quite a bit about Apple software on Windows and sometimes don't give it enough credit. Sure, it's not perfect. Nothing is.
We all enjoyed Myst, right?
Well do we all remember that Quicktime was required to run Myst? And Riven? And.........
They do not want any media that uses industry standard AVC as a codec to succeed because the cannot sell encoder licenses for media creation software or influence media content creators to use their OS and related technologies.
If Paramount is next to withdraw from iTunes (even if they are making a lot of money), I would suggest investigating whether MSFT paid them off like they may have indirectly to support HD DVD exclusively.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
That is pure unsupported bias. Please cite a verfiable incident in which Apple Inc. was ethically worse than Microsoft.
There is no security when liberty is sacrificed.
If Jobs REALLY had balls, he'd do the Zune right...
What does "doing the Zune right" mean?
I don't get the whole "Zune" thing. It's just a repackaged Toshiba MP3 player with crippled Wifi for astroturfing. You can get MP3 players from Korea that do things like hook together through their USB ports and swap the song you're playing at USB2 speeds, which is way better than passing around a demo version that self destructs over radio.
There's nothing unique or innovative about it, what's the big deal?
I would imagine they have in mind a system that would charge you maybe .50 for an episode of B.J. and the Bear, but $4.99 for last night's episode of... well, whatever crap has the piddling ratings that broadcast has these days.
Note: if they wanted to show for free, with commercials, as ABC seems poised to do, http://dynamic.abc.go.com/streaming/landing
and THEN sell their episodes on iTunes or wherever they want -- nobody would have any objections. Or put up hulu.com with their new pricing models, and compete with iTunes fair and square. What cheeses me off entirely is they charge Apple with attempted monopoly. That's just the complete reverse of what's true. Think hulu.com will have copy restrictions? Uh-huh. Whose? Apple's? Why, no. That would leave? Microsoft, no? Then Mac users have NO legal alternative. Watch the broadcast, get a TiVo, or the thing that seems to get the uptight here so uptight, but which is simply the market enforcing discipline among the producers. Demanding $5 to watch an episode of Wacky Family Wisecracks? You got to be kidding. Um, isn't that using the monopoly of your intellectual property to charge what the market will bear, while meanwhile cutting off the already profitable alternative?
Well, I've been using Macs since my LC III in 7th grade, so I've been watching Apple for a while. My current complaint is how Apple went out of its way to make my iPod way way less useful than it could be. Specifically, the way they hide the music in hidden randomly-named folders with randly-named filenames in random order. Seriously. All the other MP3 players on the market have a simple copy-into-a-folder storage mechanism for their filesystems. Apple certainly hasn't allowed interoperability with iTMS and other players, or iPods with other music services, which it could. They have mercilessly excluded competition within their Mac OS platform.
Oh, wait, no I forgot, this is my beef with Apple recently. I bought this $350 video iPod and I basically love it. It's a bit limited, but it's not bad, and the video implementation is very good. I like how I can just plug a wire into the audio jack and export video straight out to a standard RGB composite cable. Only... it's not QUITE a standard composite cable, they actually switched around two of the colors, so if you already owned that cable and it worked with all your other devices, then it won't work with your iPod unless you know to switch around the two colors. No, you have to buy the special Apple cable that has the colors switched for you. (Or a competitor's cable.) Still, you know, that's bullshit, they're just fucking with their customers. They did the same thing with the S-VIDEO out on their TiBooks, which I have -- their special cable works but a standard one doesn't.
I think Mac users in general need to grow up.
Apple has 10% or less of the personal computer market, yet iTunes has a dominant position in the online music market. To me, this kind of implies that the majority of the people who are impacted by this (and thus going to complain about it, or decide that this entitles them to rip off copies of NBC products) are not actually Mac users at all. But maybe I'm making a mistake in not generalizing from a single data point, what do you think?
Getting cable.
Why should he pay for a bunch of crap he doesn't want?
my only alternative is to steal?
Copyright infringement is not stealing. Never has been and never will be. And aside from the copyright violation, do you know what the difference is for NBC between someone who will never pay for something and will never watch it and someone who will never pay for something but will download it? Absolutely nothing, because either way they will never get paid.
While you're getting some cheese to go with that whine, could you try and come up with a real example of Apple coming remotely close to being as unethical as Microsoft?
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Apple has attempted to monopolize every market is possibly could, to equal or greater extent than Microsoft, except that the opportunity was greater for Microsoft. Specifically, Apple has controlled the three markets it historically ever controlled: the Apple II market, the Mac OS market, and the iPod market. Apple ruthlessly excluded all possible competition in those three arenas.
Anyway, Apple has always excluded as much competition as it possibly could in every way, and my original point was about how bad Apple would be if they had the opportunity, which they haven't.
I thought about this for a bit, and it strikes me as incredibly stupid to think that the content providers can hurt iTunes by moving content away from it. Apple doesn't make money with the iTunes store. They make money with the iPod. Furthermore, the iTunes store is not popular just because. It's popular due to the iPod's popularity.
You can't attack the iTunes store. People who own iPods are what makes the iTunes music store popular; if they can't get their content through the iTunes store, they will not buy content at all.
Think about it. If I can't buy some TV show through iTunes, what am I going to do? Every other store is incompatible with my iPod. I can either buy stuff from the iTunes store, buy stuff from a store that sells DRM-free content, or rip stuff from somewhere else; a DVD, perhaps, or some P2P network.
Which essentially means that if I can't buy the NBC stuff from the iTunes store, I can't pay for it at all, unless I wait until the DVD box comes out. So how does that hurt Apple? It doesn't hurt Apple at all, because Apple doesn't make a lot of money with the iTunes store anyway. It only hurts NBC, because now they get less content, and it hurts the customers, because now they're forced to go less simple and (possibly) more illegal ways.
That's also why Apple doesn't mess around. If content providers don't do what Apple wants, they're out. It's no loss for Apple. Universal wants higher prices? Screw them. NBC wants tougher DRM? Screw them, too.
If the content providers wanted to attack the iTunes store, they'd have to provide an alternative for iPod owners, which means no DRM. Oh, the irony. Delicious.
Apple has attempted to monopolize every market is possibly could, to equal or greater extent than Microsoft, except that the opportunity was greater for Microsoft. Specifically, Apple has controlled the three markets it historically ever controlled: the Apple II market, the Mac OS market, and the iPod market. Apple ruthlessly excluded all possible competition in those three arenas.
Could you come up with an example that isn't stupid? A company is a monopoly when they dominate a market to the detriment of consumers, not because they are the only source for their own products. By your logic, every single manufacturer is a monopolist because they are the sole source of the products they make. Ford is the only source of Mustangs. Nike is the only source of Air Jordans. McDonalds is the only place where you can find a Big Mac.
-1; Flamebait
-1; Flamebait
Only if the parent gets a -5; Moron at the same time.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
This is pure greed. They wanted to option to charge up to $4.99 an episode with tiered pricing. Why on earth would anyone want to shell out $5 for each episode in a series? That's almost $110 for a season that goes for 22 episodes (roughly the average I think)? Do they think consumers are stupid and don't know that if they wait until summer that they can get the DVD set for ~$60?
I am not sad to see NBC take their greedy hands and go somewhere else to fail miserably. I can't wait to see them return to Apple in a year begging to be let back in. Hope the door hits each of your execs on the way out.
Insert Sig Here
I'd pay it.
Of course, each $4.99 monthly payment would give me access to download the next two high quality non-DRMed episodes in addition to mailing me a physical DVD (or $3.99 if I agree not to download the episodes and wait for the mail). And please, no bogus $3.95 charge for shipping and handling.
I've been wanting this for years. It makes sense, gives value to the customer and increases profits by cutting out the middle man (networks, cable, satellite), exactly why it won't happen.