AT&T To Decommission Pay Phones

oahazmatt writes "According to MarketWatch, AT&T said that its pay phones will be phased out over the next year. A company spokeswoman declined to say how much revenue its pay-phone business generated, but the number is small and declining. 'The first public pay-telephone station was set up in 1878, just two years after Alexander Graham Bell invented the talking device. The first coin-operated pay phone was installed in Hartford, Conn., in 1889. For decades after the pay phone's invention, many Americans relied on them because of the expense and difficulty in obtaining reliable home service. Only after World War II did the telephone become a household necessity.'"

Comments

Just great!

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Now where is Superman supposed to change?

Re:Just great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen up, Ravens' fans, this is the Nature Boy coming to ya from the center of the universe, a little place I like to call Patrachusetts.

You call that your Superbowl? I call it a fucking meltdown. Ya give the ball back to a god like Brady with 3+ minutes left? Yeah, how's that working for ya? You think you can stop him on 4th down? I think not.

Sure you cry and complain about the refs. Well let me tell you something: the refs know greatness when they see it. You can't blame them for worshiping the Pats anymore than you can blame a veteran for worshiping the commander in chief.

Your season folded like a tent with a broken pole weeks ago, Ravens. Why you chose to make your stand last night is beyond me. Embarrassed yourself in front of a million viewers, good job. Call a timeout on 4th down after Brady teases you with a botched QB sneak. We're not done laughing yet, let me tell you.

In summary, I hope you got as big of a chuckle out of that disaster you call "your Superbowl" as we did, because you might not like it, but you will have to learn to -- what? -- LOVE. IT. or my name isn't the Nature Boy. woooo. woooo.

Re:Just great!

[Anonymous Coward]

The real question is where I will "release" after seeing a pretty girl in a short skirt.

Re:Just great!

[davidsyes]

He can change in the lavatory room... slice/wave a hand under the stall, or tap his feet. Things can then get super, soupy or souped-up... Then, all those senators can get them some "SUPERdick tonite..."

(That's what a relative of mine said about Loise when she got into bed with Clark for the first time "She gon get her some SUPER dick, tonight"(in the theater screening back in the 80's); the audience roared wildly when they heard him say that about the two characters...)

Re:Just great!

[Anonymous Coward]

How Billick keeps his job after that is a mystery.

Re:Just great!

[pgn674]

From Reader's Digest:

We took the family to one of those restaurants where the walls are plastered with movie memorabilia. I went off to see the hostess about reserving a table.
When I returned, I found my 11-year-old daughter staring at a poster of Superman standing in a phone booth. She looked puzzled.
"She doesn't know who Superman is?" I whispered to my husband.
"Worse," he replied. "She doesn't know what a phone booth is."
Submitted by Karen Orloff

Re:Just great!

[phobos13013]

And where exactly do I ask you is Tony Soprano supposed to call in his hits from now? He cant use his freaking cell phone... fongu!

Re:Just great!

[mulvane]

How the hell am I supposed to get out of the Matrix and back to the real world if they take away half the hardlines that tie into the matrix.

Re:Just great!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Patriots aren't that good. They've been exposed. They only won due to awful last-minute mistakes made by the Eagles and the Ravens, but the better team on the field that day was not the Patriots. Sorry to break it to you pal, they aren't going undefeated.

Re:Just great!

[PachmanP]

How the hell am I supposed to get out of the Matrix and back to the real world if they take away half the hardlines that tie into the matrix.

That's the point!

Cutting down on the hard lines is how you prevent those pesky hackers from escaping agents!

Re:Just great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Superman? You mean what is 2600 going to put on their back cover.

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Only poor people use pay phones anyway.

Re:Good

[cayenne8]

I remember when pay phone calls were $0.10.....were they ever cheaper than that?

I remember when I was young...when Mom would drop me off a the movie theater, or a mall...she'd make sure I had a dime to call home if I had to, etc...

Re:Good

[andy314159pi]

Only poor people use pay phones anyway.

If you have a land line at home and access to the telephone at work, then you really can get by without a cell phone. But then, say, when you are out on the road and you need to change plans with friends, you find that you need one. It used to be that you could use a pay phone on such an occasion. I don't think having land lines at work and home and occasionally using a pay phone means that you are poor.

Re:Good

[andy314159pi]

I remember when pay phone calls were $0.10.....were they ever cheaper than that?

It's funny that you mention that because I was just remembering how cell phone calls were $0.10 in New Hampshire into the 1990's.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of people (most?) these days have cell phones - I'm not saying its right, but that's the way it is.

Re:Good

[michrech]

If you have a land line at home and access to the telephone at work, then you really can get by without a cell phone. But then, say, when you are out on the road and you need to change plans with friends, you find that you need one. It used to be that you could use a pay phone on such an occasion. I don't think having land lines at work and home and occasionally using a pay phone means that you are poor. That's what "pay as you go" phones are for.

Re:Good

[andy314159pi]

cell phone calls were $0.10

I mean pay phone calls. I'm turning into a fuddy duddy.

Re:Good

[sm62704]

I don't know about your country, but in mine we pay for cell phone service by the minute. A cell phone IS a pay phone.

The only difference is you pay for your minutes every month (or when you buy a card if you're pay as you go) rather than every time you use it.

One more thought - your elitist classist statement turns my stomach. people like you are what's wrong with capitalism.

Re:Good

[DragonWriter]

That's what "pay as you go" phones are for.

At least, back when I had one, they were a lot more expensive than pay phones for the kind of very occasional use described-- since you had to pay $25-30 every 2-3 months or so (details varied by vendor) to keep the phone active -- but potentially cheaper then regular cell phones for use that was regular but not particularly heavy.

They might have friendlier plans now.

Re:Good

[InsaneProcessor]

They were $0.10 in the 1960s.

Re:Good

[Volante3192]

Seemed right to me the first time...

Re:Good

[michrech]

Do some investigating. They are *considerably* cheaper than that now. I'm about to submit another message to someone else who made the same assumption as if it were fact without having checked first.

That's what "pay as you go" phones are for.

At least, back when I had one, they were a lot more expensive than pay phones for the kind of very occasional use described-- since you had to pay $25-30 every 2-3 months or so (details varied by vendor) to keep the phone active -- but potentially cheaper then regular cell phones for use that was regular but not particularly heavy.

They might have friendlier plans now.

Re:Good

[BoberFett]

I use a pay as you go phone from TMobile. After years of paying $50/mo or more to Verizon I smacked myself in the head for being such a dolt. I reviewed my bills and found that I use less than 100 minutes a month. I fill my phone with the highest cost card ($100) which gives me 1000 minutes that last a year. At $0.10/mi, I spend ~$10/mo. for a cell phone. For light users pay as you go makes sense.

Re:Good

[hedwards]

And most homeless people don't bother with pay phones either. It turns out that with the prices for calls the way that they are, that it tends to be cheaper to just use a cell phone anyways. That and people can reliably return phone calls.

More likely they're using the prepaid variety. I would be as well if I weren't on a family plan with a couple of big talkers.

Re:Good

[DragonWriter]

Do some investigating.

Uh, why? Pay-go doesn't meet my needs for reasons outside of price now.

They are *considerably* cheaper than that now.

That's good to hear, for those whose needs are in that direction.

I'm about to submit another message to someone else who made the same assumption as if it were fact without having checked first.

I made no assumption. I stated my factual experience, and mentioned that it was outdated and that things may have changed. Heck, you quoted the whole message, is it too much to ask that you also read the whole thing?

Re:Good

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

One more thought - your elitist classist statement turns my stomach. people like you are what's wrong with capitalism.
Here's one more thought your sanctimonious statement turns my stomach. People like you are what's wrong with /. Isn't name calling fun?

Re:Good

[Amouth]

this is what i did for my wife through cingular.. she only ever uses it to call me to come change her flat tire - OJT doesn't seem to be working for her

Re:Good

[sm62704]

If I have hit a nerve than GOOD. perhaps it will get you to rethink your sickeningly elitist ways.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

One more thought - your elitist classist statement turns my stomach. people like you are what's wrong with capitalism.
========
Because being a whiney socialist/marxist is just so 'honorable'?

Re:Good

[michrech]

I did read the whole thing. Are you completely incapable of comprehending written English?

You stated, as if it were fact, that "pay-go" phones were very expensive, then added "at least they were a couple years ago". I stated *currently* factual information to rebut your claim.

Also, when I was dispensing what I *thought* was helpful information to you, how was I to assume that "pay-go" phones were not suitable to you for reasons OTHER than as stated? Despite what several have told me, I am not a mind reader.

Next time, try to be less insulting. You might get more people to help you when you need it.

Do some investigating.

Uh, why? Pay-go doesn't meet my needs for reasons outside of price now.

They are *considerably* cheaper than that now.

That's good to hear, for those whose needs are in that direction.

I'm about to submit another message to someone else who made the same assumption as if it were fact without having checked first.

I made no assumption. I stated my factual experience, and mentioned that it was outdated and that things may have changed. Heck, you quoted the whole message, is it too much to ask that you also read the whole thing?

Re:Good

[toriver]

... or people who value the anonymity they provide.

Hey, perhaps it's all part of the War on Lib^H^H^H Terror?

Re:Good

[Celarnor]

Libterror? I used to use that library ALL the time.

Re:Good

[DragonWriter]

I did read the whole thing.

Not well, apparently.

Are you completely incapable of comprehending written English?

No, I'm not.

You stated, as if it were fact, that "pay-go" phones were very expensive

I stated in my original post (emphasis added): "At least, back when I had one, they were a lot more expensive than pay phones for the kind of very occasional use described [...] They might have friendlier plans now." As I stated in response to your initial misguided response, and contrary to your characterization abivem "I made no assumption. I stated my factual experience, and mentioned that it was outdated and that things may have changed."

I stated *currently* factual information to rebut your claim.

Nothing you stated would rebut any claim that I actually made. If you had read what I wrote (and were not, as you say, "completely incapable of comprehending written English") you would realize that.

The current information you provided was useful and welcome. The misrepresentation of what I wrote and unwarranted attacks were neither.

Next time, try to be less insulting.

You were the first one to be insulting. And the premise of your insults was your own mistake, not the actual content of my post. So perhaps you should practice what you preach.

Re:Good

[petermgreen]

my understanding is in the US you pay for incoming on cellphone plans. In europe you don't generally pay for incoming but calls from landlines to mobiles and from some mobile plans to mobiles on other networks are considerablly more expensive than calls to landlines.

Here in the uk calling a payphone costs no more than any other landline and you don't have to pay for incoming on them. Is the situation the same in the USA?

Re:Good

[LWATCDR]

I just hope that they keep them at airports.
I have been stuck at the airport for so long my cell died. I had to call into my office using the public phone to let them know what was up with the flight.

Re:Good

[Mursk]

I use TracFone. I hardly ever use it, and usually just get the 1-year card that comes with some number of minutes(300? 400? I'm not sure because I usually end up getting a special offer that gives a bit more). Works out to $100 a year or about $8.33/mo. Tough to beat that. :)

Re:Good

[hedwards]

Typically no, but the cost of payphones is much higher than a landline is on a per minute basis. Generally $.50 for the first couple of minutes. Versus a landline being $20 a month or so for unlimited local calling. And this is a part of the country where it's particularly expensive. In some parts of the country its more like half that. One can often times cut that down significantly by having a limited plan.

Anybody that has to call for 30 or 40 minutes a month is going to be paying a premium, over a home phone. That's assuming that one can find a payphone when one wants to. Many of the payphones now are far more expensive than that, and there isn't a whole lot of regulation of what the rates can be.

In the US, typical plans these days will be unlimited between phones on the same network, and calls between phones that aren't on the same network will use minutes. Typical plans will have either unlimited minutes on nights or weekends, or just a real large number of minutes.

In a typical month, I'll only end up using around 10 minutes or so, because all of my calls are in network.

Re:Good

[AmiAthena]

my understanding is in the US you pay for incoming on cellphone plans. In europe you don't generally pay for incoming but calls from landlines to mobiles and from some mobile plans to mobiles on other networks are considerablly more expensive than calls to landlines.

Yes, incoming as well as outgoing calls count against our minutes here. They do the same with SMS. While most carriers have a plan under which it's cheap or free to call that network (and therefore more expensive to call another network), because of the way the phone numbers are set up, there's usually no difference in cost between calling a landline or mobile.

Here in the uk calling a payphone costs no more than any other landline and you don't have to pay for incoming on them. Is the situation the same in the USA?
I can't speak for the entire US, but in my region (at the time, New Jersey) they started phasing out pay phones that accepted incoming calls in the 1990s. There were two reasons behind this. The first reason is misguided half-valid paranoia. After doctors, the next people to carry beepers/pagers were drug dealers. Bob pages Bill with a pay phone number, Bill calls Bob back, then bad drug things happen! The second (and probably real) reason, of course, is money. When I was a teenager it was fairly common to place a collect call from a pay phone, then have the person decline and call back. (Getting the number from the "You have a collect call from _________" recording or Caller ID.) As long as it was a local call it didn't cost anything, which obviously the phone companies found unamusing.

So now Bob and Bill are still dealing drugs, but on mobile phones, and the phone companies get paid twice each time they call each other. Progress indeed!

Re:Good

[DarkVader]

I'm pretty sure they were still 10 cents in the early '90s here. There was quite the fuss when they went up to 25 cents. I don't think much of anybody noticed when they went up again to 50 cents.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Hear, hear. When I exit, say, a theatre the first thing I do is walk to the nearest pay phone to call my chauffeur. Having to carry items on my person is so fucking plebian; I'm not a pack mule. Besides, shoving geegaws and gizmoes in my pockets would ruin the lines of my clothing. If the pay phones disappear, I'll be at the mercy of whatever establishments I choose to patronize to have a telephone available, and in most cases that'll require interacting with some nitwit who barely understands English yet insists she must be the one operating the phone. It's beyond embarrassing.

Re:Good

[BlueStrat]

And most homeless people don't bother with pay phones either. It turns out that with the prices for calls the way that they are, that it tends to be cheaper to just use a cell phone anyways. That and people can reliably return phone calls.

More likely they're using the prepaid variety. I would be as well if I weren't on a family plan with a couple of big talkers

I am in frequent contact with missions and other homeless shelters and the people that use their services, since I frequently do charitable events at these places. Most of the homeless either can't afford any kind of cellphone, or if they could, couldn't spend what little money they can scrape up from trash-diving for returnable bottles, etc on one. They need every dime for much more immediate needs. Cellphones are also easily (and are frequently) stolen and traded for drugs or sold for a few dollars. Many view homeless in possession of a cellphone as suspected drug dealers or users.

Pay phones were the main communication means for the homeless (other than to other homeless/street denizens). The homeless also have a high distrust for authorities, and avoid any contact with them whenever possible. I've heard them tell stories about themselves or another homeless person that witnessed a crime or encountered a stranger in extreme distress that, where in the past they would have simply picked up a nearby pay-phone and reported it anonymously, simply shrugged and walked away out of fear.

Let's hope the next terrorist in the process of initiating a major attack in some city is careless enough to let a non-homeless person witness their activities and report them. If a homeless person is the only witness, chances are good it'll go unreported, at least in any kind of timely manner.

Cheers!

Strat

Re:Good

[Skrapion]

I noticed! But maybe that's because I don't like carrying a cell phone around.

Say goodbye to superman.

[proc_tarry]

Where will Clark Kent become Superman?

No longer required..

[in2mind]

..Because there are cellphone everywhere? But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make?

Oh its about profit...ok..

Re:No longer required..

[Abcd1234]

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one? Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

Re:No longer required..

[Polysick]

Cell Phones have become a necessity, like it or not. It is probably because the cell phone providers created the necessity, but it has become a necessity nonetheless.

Re:No longer required..

[LighterShadeOfBlack]

Oh its about profit...ok.. Well... yes, yes it is. AT&T are a business, profit is their general goal.

Even if someone won't lend you a cellphone in case you run off with it, just go into a building and ask if you can use their landline. Most people are pretty reasonable. OK... some people are pretty reasonable. But even if you had to try two or three places it's hardly a big deal for this life-and-death call you just have to make, right?

That is, unless you find yourself alone without a cellphone in the middle of nowhere. But then again there probably wouldn't be a pay phone there anyway.

Re:No longer required..

[Stewie241]

Do plans in the states really need to be multi-year? Here in Canada, you generally only have to sign up for a long term contract if you want a handset discount. With the rate that people replace them, I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to buy a cheap used phone (say $30 or less) and activate it without a long term contract.

Still sucks that payphones are going. I needed to use one last night, and I'm glad it was there. Though, they seem to have raised the cost from 25 cents to 50 cents, which is stupid.

Re:No longer required..

[Abcd1234]

Cell Phones have become a necessity, like it or not.

Well that's just bizarre, then, because I don't have a cell phone, and seem to function just fine. But you're right, I'm sure it's a necessity, just like food, clothing, shelter, etc, and I just don't know what I'm missing (other than crappier voice quality, speakers, vocal pickup, no audible voice feedback, random disconnects and generally crappy service coverage, etc, etc).

Re:No longer required..

[Average]

In the US, at least, a new handset for prepaid (Tracfone) goes for $15 plus sales tax. You can get a year's worth of operation for $80 (if you buy a $20 card quarterly) or $100 (for more minutes than that). Minutes that you use are much cheaper than the 50 cents + long distance for a payphone call.

Plus, any cellphone can call 911, activated or not. Lots of working ones for $3.99 with a charger at my local Goodwill.

Not saying it's a good deal, or that I can't understand not wanting to bother with one. But, they aren't that expensive in this country.

Canada on the other hand doesn't have anything nearly as affordable as Tracfone (or I would get one for use when I'm traveling there).

Re:No longer required..

[leoxx]

Don't be absurd. Cell phones as a necessity is only true in countries where there is little to no telecommunications infrastructure. In north america one can easily get by without a cell phone, and I do so every single day.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make?

Uh, yeah. Where do you live, bastardland?

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had people (strangers) from out of state lend me their cell while I was barefoot in the ER waiting to be seen, so yes, at least some of them will.

Re:No longer required..

[CRCulver]

In Finland there is an excellent telecommunications infrastructure, and yet mobile phones are necessities. For example, some new apartment blocks lack doorbells, since when you reach the outside door it is expected that you can phone your acquaintance to let him know you are waiting to enter. Payphones were generally phased out years ago, with only a handful left in the very centre of Helsinki for tourists. Then there is the whole social issue, sometimes people just don't want to deal with you if you don't have a mobile.

Re:No longer required..

[i.r.id10t]

Of course, replace phone booths wiht a nice soundproof booth that has a quick charger, and maybe a reception booster of some sort, etc. and a seat. Still pay for booth time, but you get a quick charge of your cell battery and better reception, as well as some privacy and the ability to hear your conversation....

Re:No longer required..

[fred fleenblat]

the vocal pickup can actually be better on cell phones. there is a lot of compute power in the cell handsets and some of them use it cancel background noise. very few landline phones have this feature.

Re:No longer required..

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Don't be absurd. Cell phones as a necessity is only true in countries where there is little to no telecommunications infrastructure. In north america one can easily get by without a cell phone, and I do so every single day."

I like how you guys are dumb enough to argue this with two different definitions of 'necessity'.

Re:No longer required..

[smooth wombat]

Cell Phones have become a necessity, like it or not.

No, they haven't. Folks like Verizon/Cingular/whomever have spent millions convincing people that cell phones are a necessity when in reality they are not. As the poster above you intimated, there are those who get along quite well without a cell phone and for whom one is not remotely necessary.

The vast majority of people who think they need a cell phone are the same ones I hear in a grocery store or mall having the following conversation:

"Uh huh. Yeah. We saw that. I told her not to do it but she don't lis'n. Uh huh. Yeaahhh. I like dat. Oops! Sorry, didn't see you there. Just ran into something because I'm talking to you. Heh heh."

There are very, very, VERY few people who specifically need a cell phone. Those that think they need one would be very surprised to find out how few "necessity" calls they make in a week if they would keep track of their calls.

Re:No longer required..

[NewWorldDan]

Actually, I find it easier to find a stranger to bum a call off of than to find a pay phone to use. Add this to the list of things I'll have to explain to my kid when she's older.

Re:No longer required..

[qmaqdk]

..Because there are cellphone everywhere? But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make?

Oh its about profit...ok.. This is the situation in Denmark. There are practically no pay phones, so if your battery dies you effectively have to lend a cell phone from someone to make a call. Cell phones are cheap here, though, so people usually go along with this.

Not sure it would be as easy in the US, where cell phones are more expensive. Keep your batteries charged :)

Re:No longer required..

[michrech]

Give me a break. You can (at least in the area of the US in which I reside) walk into virtually any store and walk out with a contractless cell phone, quite cheaply. It shouldn't matter *too* much if the per-minute charges are somewhat high as, if your "example" would be correct, they don't want it in the first place, there-by meaning they'd hardly be using it as it is.

Hell, just looking at AT&T's web site (side note: MAN I hate this company -- if they do purchase DishNetwork, I'm switching to DirecTV...), you can get a damned "goPhone" for a whopping $10(!) and there are two access plans. Either an access plan that is $1 per day (you ONLY get charged the "access fee" of $1 on a day that you actually make a call) + 10 cents per minute, OR, a fee where the minutes are 25 cents.

By MY calculations, that does not qualify as "not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset", nor does it qualify for "they can pay (exorbitantly) as they go."

Next time, you might actually, ohh, I dunno, try backing up your statements with some facts? Wait.. I forgot. This is slashdot.

Just because you hate the cell phone companies (the only thing I can assume from your attitude) doesn't mean that they are out to lock you into multi-year expensive plans in an effort to not provide you adequate service and empty your wallet. It just means you haven't done your homework. Hell, it took me 2 minutes to find AT&T's rates. I'm sure other carriers have pricing similar (T-Mobile probably being one of the better carriers).

I'm really not trying to bait you into a flamewar, nor am I trying to be a troll. There are plenty of reasons to hate the telephone companies, so why make up more?

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one? Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

Re:No longer required..

[Das Modell]

I don't know how it is in the US, but in Finland cell phone connections are dirt cheap. If you use your phone seldomly or only for emergencies, it costs virtually nothing. I think my last bill was around 5 euros or something ($7). There's a dizzying amount of different plans and packages, some of which allow you to talk free of charge under certain conditions, or give you tons of free air time.

Re:No longer required..

[Polysick]

As an example, my cell phone costs 70$US per month. I use it a lot (especially for work) so I really don't have another option.

Re:No longer required..

[Rogerborg]

If you can't afford a cellphone, then you need to work harder at your day job: making buggy whips.

Re:No longer required..

[WormholeFiend]

Of course, replace phone booths wiht a nice soundproof booth that has a quick charger, and maybe a reception booster of some sort, etc. and a seat. Still pay for booth time, but you get a quick charge of your cell battery and better reception, as well as some privacy and the ability to hear your conversation....

As well as peace and quiet for everyone else who would rather not know anything about your personal life.

Re:No longer required..

[in2mind]

Even if someone won't lend you a cellphone in case you run off with it, just go into a building and ask if you can use their landline.

Its not about running away with their phone..Its about a call to a person about whom the owner has no idea & in case any trouble,the phone owner will be the first to face it.

just go into a building and ask if you can use their landline. Most people are pretty reasonable. OK... some people are pretty reasonable. But even if you had to try two or three places it's hardly a big deal for this life-and-death call you just have to make, right?

Thats when assuming there are always buildings around you, open & welcoming you at Night anywhere!

Re:No longer required..

[merreborn]

Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

I just signed up for AT&T's pay-as-you-go plan. I had to pay $10 for the phone. That was it.
The minutes you buy expire after a month or so usually, but if you drop $100 on minutes (at either $0.25/min or $1/day + $0.10/min), they don't expire for a year.

On my last plan, I was paying Sprint $50/month, and using less than 50 minutes a month -- effectively paying upwards of $1/minute. I stand to save a lot of money by switching to AT&T's pay-as-you-go plan -- probably something on the order of $400 a year. I figure, if I ever really need to spend a few hours on the phone for something, I'll use Skype, or my wife's phone.

If you don't talk much, pay-as-you-go is a steal.

Re:No longer required..

[crankyspice]

Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

Not that I advocate Wal-Hell for anything, but $19.99 will get you a pre-paid phone that costs less than a pay phone ($.12/minute, vs. $.35) to operate.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

some new apartment blocks lack doorbells

Just think: someday you Fins will invent KNOCKING. nom nom nom

Re:No longer required..

[arkane1234]

the GP didn't say PHONES, he said cell phone.

I'm pretty sure you can get a landline phone in your apartment in Finland.

Re:No longer required..

[gb506]

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one?

With the availability of pay-as-you-go mobile phones a person would have to be virtually penniless to not be able to afford a cell phone. People that destitute will probably not have very many people to call, anyway. So for a majority percentage of the sane adult population in the US, to not have a cell phone is definitely a choice. And with the demise of the pay phone, if you make a choice to eschew the cell phone you've essentially made a choice to be incommunicado.

That said, there are still many small towns in America where there is no cell service, and in these towns pay phones make sense and are used pretty frequently - my town just received a cell tower 4 months ago, there are three pay phones in this town of 750.

Re:No longer required..

[ajs]

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one? What about them?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but honestly this is just not one of the phone company's concerns. They're a business, not the corner phone maintenance division of your city government. If you want a phone on every corner, lobby your local government to put one there, and be ready to pay for it with your taxes. Public phones just don't make enough money to cover their costs anymore.

Re:No longer required..

[Penguinisto]

As someone who (strangely enough) has no cellphone (and doesn't want one after years of toting the damned thing around), I usually just go into a business and ask to borrow their phone for a local call if it's that important. 19 times out of 20 (or so), it's not a problem.

While not all places do this, I suspect that the one and only instance where using a phone would actually be required (911) would be easily accessible enough almost anywhere in town anyway, and I doubt there would be a business or the like which would refuse to let you do that on their phone (if they themselves aren't doing it already).

Speaking of 911, I was right next a semi-truck accident that occurred back in 2005. There were four people (myself included) helping the truck driver out of the flipped cab and checking on the minivan driver (he got plowed into pretty bad, and we couldn't move him for fear of his neck breaking). Meanwhile, no less than twenty people were standing up on the embankment, gabbing away on their cell phones (with at least one using her built-in camera in between bits of conversation...) The county emergency dispatch operator reported on the news later that night that she literally had to hang up on a few of the callers, because they were all jamming up the lines trying to call 911.

/P

Re:No longer required..

[palegray.net]

It's just an economic reality that if you want any sort of service, you're going to pay something for it. How much you pay is decided by two factors: (1) how valuable the market thinks the service is, and (2) how heavily/often you want to use the service. If a person wants to pay less, they either opt for a lower level of service (think basic el cheapo home phone land-line service) which includes fewer features/benefits, or they opt for a more expensive category of service and simply use it less.

The market is constantly changing, though. In various American metropolitan markets (including Atlanta) you can purchase a phone from MetroPCS and pay ~$35 per month for unlimited local and long distance service, with no contract. Additional features are a few bucks more per month, but still relatively cheap. Flat rate, no contract. I expect to see a lot more of this sort of service in the near future. For my part, I'm on "the new AT&T" in Connecticut.

From the tone of your post, I'd almost think you were advocating increased government regulation of telecommunications markets, instead of allowing new business models and technology decide the way of things. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Re:No longer required..

[SirWhoopass]

Amen brother. I'm married, kids, and a tech job where I maintain a vital piece of equipment. Never owned a cell phone.

Naturally, there have been those moments when I've terribly regretted not owning one. Such as when soup is on sale at the grocery store so I could call my wife and find out if I should buy some. Damn the heartbreak I've had in those situations.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

AT&T has decided that you better afford one. Preferably, one of theirs.

Re:No longer required..

[mzs]

I have no cellphone. I used payphones three time this year, definitely under $4 in total. Your idea forces me to plan ahead and buy $95 + tax of stuff periodically during the course of the year.

Re:No longer required..

[arkane1234]

This is true.
I did without a regular phone for quite some time, it wasn't a big deal. (no, not because of finances)
I did vonage for a little bit just because it wasn't a huge investment up front and it was over my broadband.
I dropped that a month or two ago and simply went with a cell phone out of want because I can replace my internet and phone needs with one device. (USB connection with internet sharing via 3G network)

Re:No longer required..

[gauauu]

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one? Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

The answer is: sorry, tough luck. AT&T has no duty to you to provide these pay phones for you. If they stop being profitable, they stop existing. They don't care about whether you are willing to dedicate yourself to a multi-year plan.

I'm not saying I like the result, but it's the way life works :(

Re:No longer required..

[Cragen]

Well, first maybe they could wait until the apartments are COMPLETED! :) 'Course, if that is the habit there, that would lead me to wonder if they used phone booths instead of knocking before the advent of cell phones? Could be!

Actually, the way the Fins (Finns?) do that is pretty cool. And the fact that I learned something today on Slashdot is cool, too! Must be time for a nap!

Re:No longer required..

[arkane1234]

Good lord man, there's just something wrong with paying 25+ cents a minute.
The pay as you go phones are for people who are either A) poor (obviously because they can't manage finances since they bought this) or B) buy into the whole "it's cheaper cuz you pay for the minutes up front".

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how about the time you saw an accident on the highway, but because you were too cool for a cell phone, you couldn't call 911. Wow, all of us douchbags that have them sure look like assholes now... Don't dumb having a cellphone down to being able to call your wife about soup... ftw?

Re:No longer required..

[Kadin2048]

A while ago (late 90s, maybe?) I remember seeing some places, mainly in airports, that were pay-by-the-minute "laptop lounges." Little air-conditioned, soundproofed booths with power and internet connections that you could go into, sit down, and relax in.

At the time I remember looking at the prices and thinking that they were ridiculously overpriced, definitely aimed towards the "I'm spending somebody else's venture capital" set. But the concept was pretty good.

I happened to walk through the front lobby of an old (probably 1960s era construction) college dorm fairly recently, and I noticed that it had been built with what were at the time pretty standard "phone booths." All the phones in them had been torn out, but they had kept the booths themselves and they looked like they got some use by people just as a place to go and have an extended cellphone conversation without bothering your roommate. I thought that was a pretty good idea.

Re:No longer required..

[smooth wombat]

Such as when soup is on sale at the grocery store

I was going to add a final sentence to my original post to the effect that the times I've actually needed a cell phone I can count on one hand, and your example is one of those situations.

While I'm not married (no women with a sense of humor around here among other things), there have been a few times, usually at the grocery store, when I see something that I know my parents like and then would like to have had a cell phone to call them and find out if they need some. As it stands now, I have to wait until I get home, call them and let them know about it if they are out and about without making a special trip or ask if I should stop by the next night after work and get it for them (the store is on my way home).

Re:No longer required..

[Beardo the Bearded]

All of those plans cost more than a quarter.

Re:No longer required..

[value_added]

Because there are cellphone everywhere? But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make?

I don't use a cell phone and don't plan to. That decison puts me in a similar category to people who walk their dogs and notice what most of the world around them is seemingly oblivious to: namely that even moderate speeding and routinely-acceptable inconsiderate driving not only increases noise levels substantially, but also make things dangerous, pissing off and increasing the stress levels of even those minding their own business (in, or out, of their cars). Put another way, it makes for a shitty environment to work, play, shop or live in. Even if you don't have a dog.

When I revisited LA not so long ago, I found it amusing (in a sad and apalling sort of way) to discover that many pay phones had been decomissioned due to, I assumed, use by street-side drug dealers. We're not talking about South Central, but areas like Sunset Boulevard, the Sunset Strip, fashionable Melrose, and the better parts of Santa Monica -- you know, the area tourists and folks with money like to frequent. And of the pay phones remaining, most had been sold off in one manner or another to third-party companies who took advantage of the free market to double or triple the price of using a phone that was now rarely inspected or repaired when broken. If that sounds trivial, imagining putting a few dollars in change (obtained with fuss from a local, hopefully open, convenience store) into a phone that doesn't make the call, or return your money.

Pay phones may not provide a critical public function these days, but leaving it at that misses the point. It's like bus benches and public waste bins. When I was growing up, the city I lived in made it a point to make the benches as attractive as possible, and the same with trash cans. Today, if you see a bus bench, it's covered in graffitti, if it isn't covered in advertising. Sort of like the outside of city buses. Or the inside of city buses. And not too different than that shiny new sports arena erected as a testament to corporate, as opposed to civic, pride. I guess the savings in maintenance for old infrastructure, or the increased tax revenues from new infrastructure, is supposed to make up for a lower quality of life.

Today, I'm fortunate in that I live in city where things like pay phones and bus benches are found everywhere, and are treated with the same importance as landscaping, parks and happily accommodate odd balls like me who like to walk their dogs. Small wonder the residents are happy. And given there's a number of English expats living here, I wouldn't be surprised to discover a vintage Dr. Who style call box showing up somewhere. I'd even call that progress.

Re:No longer required..

[harks]

On two strange occasions I have lent my cell phone to a complete stranger to make a call.

Re:No longer required..

[CRCulver]

Say your friend lives on the fourth floor. What is knocking going to accomplish. Think he'll hear all the way down to the main entrance?

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Or someone who wants an anonymous phone.

Re:No longer required..

[darjen]

Uh, speak for yourself. I just switched to the 18 cent per minute plan on Virgin Mobile. Personally, I was tired of having to pay $50 a month to AT&T when I only ever used 100 minutes a month at the most. (And half of that time talking to the parents). I'm not exactly poor... I have a decent paying IT job like the rest of us here. This new plan will probably cost me no more than $10/month.

There are plenty of ways for me to communicate with friends and family nowadays without being a wireless company's sucker.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone, or can't afford one? Not everyone is willing to dedicate themselves to multi-year plans, or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

What about them? So you're saying that we should force AT&T to maintain an unprofitable business line for these few people? Are you in favor of government subsidies for, what you /.ers lover to consider, the big, evil corporations? Did you make a stink about them selling off the 700 Mhz range, since not everyone can afford cable or satellite tv?

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot C) people who make 20 minutes of calls a month but still need to be able to reach people or be reached on the go. It is impossible to find a plan here for less than $10/month, so I pay Virgin Mobile 30 cents a minute because it is the cheapest way for me to have a working cell phone.

Not everyone spends every waking moment with a phone stuck to their ear, you know.

Re:No longer required..

[plate_o_shrimp]

The pay as you go phones are for people who are either A) poor (obviously because they can't manage finances since they bought this) or B) buy into the whole "it's cheaper cuz you pay for the minutes up front".

Or: C) like me, don't use a cell phone enough to make a plan worthwhile. $15/month for 60 minutes $30ish(+) for more minutes than I'll ever use....

Re:No longer required..

[DarkFencer]

You obviously are ignorant and misinformed. I use a prepaid cell phone (I spend around $20 every three months on it), and have an unlimited domestic calling plan at home for around $25 per month for a land line (VOIP). This is less than I would be spending for a cell phone plan ($40/month for an average plan), plus I don't need to manage my minutes at home. For many people, cell phones are for emergencies and quick calls. For that purpose it serves perfectly.

Re:No longer required..

[Sparr0]

or C) don't use enough minutes to make a plan worthwhile.

That's me. I use maybe 60 minutes a month on average, and I know plenty of people who use less. On my prepaid plan, that costs about $21 (10 cents a minute, plus a dollar each day i use the phone, call it every other day, $6 + $15). Yes, it's a high per-minute fee, but $21 is cheaper than any plan that I have found (Cingular had a $30/mo 250-minute plan a while back, I think).

Re:No longer required..

[plate_o_shrimp]

D@mn /. gobbled my "lessthan." Sigh. $15/month for 60 minutes is less than $30ish(+) for more minutes than I'll ever use....

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

"OR, a fee where the minutes are 25 cents."

Aka pay 10$ for the phone and 25c for any call under a min. There are no month to month charges on that.

Re:No longer required..

[CRCulver]

That actually takes so long that most people are content to just have a mobile.

Re:No longer required..

[YrWrstNtmr]

or spend a not-insignificant number of dollars on a handset so they can pay (exhorbitantly) as they go.

It's not that bad anymore. My pay as you go (VirginMobile) is averaging ~$17/month total for usage of ~110 minutes/month. IIRC, the handset was $20 when I bought it.

And I had to be dragged kicking and screaming into having the damn leash.

Re:No longer required..

[el americano]

Yes, I think $93 or so for a year is about the least you can pay with T-Mobile to go. If you buy fewer than 100 minutes, they cost more and expire sooner. Since they're no longer getting $40/month from me, I forgive their minimum cost tactics. It's not as if other carriers are going to compete for users like me.

As for comparing it to your $4/yr plan, since that will no longer be an option for you, where's the point of that?

Re:No longer required..

[jsiren]

You can knock yourself out at the street level entrance, which is always locked, while the friend you're supposed visit waits patiently for your call in his seventh-floor apartment. You'd do better setting off a car alarm: then he might take a look outside if he were bored enough. Then you could entertain half the building gesturing to your friend. (s/he/she/g if you want.)

The traditional way to get somebody to open a door has been to whistle or throw a small object into the window (not big enough to break it, if you want to be on friendly terms with the person, and inconvenient if the window is very high), or in the last few decades to press a button in an intercom system that enables you to coerce whomever is inside to open the door for you (if audio-only, it's often enough to just say "paper delivery", if equipped with video, not that much harder, or in the last 20 years have a code that you type into a keypad next to the door. It seems that these days most people just say "call me when you're at the door", so the intercom systems go unused. This apartment block's architect seems to have taken this into account, and not bothered with an intercom. Apparently the mail, newspaper, etc. delivery people will have keys, or know who to call to get in.

Of course you can just wait until somebody comes out and grab the door.

For a data point, in our two-person Finnish household there are currently seven mobile phones: two in personal use, one in business use, four obsolete, one of which is kept as a backup with a prepaid SIM that came as a gift. Only counting phones personally owned (i.e. not by the employer) still makes five.

(pauses to think)

I'm pretty sure the wife got rid of her old clunker phone (that would be her second obsolete phone). If not, that's number eight.

We seem to have a waste problem here...

Re:No longer required..

[jcgf]

Put another way, it makes for a shitty environment to work, play, shop or live in. Even if you don't have a dog.

Your dog can literally make the environment a shitty place.

Re:No longer required..

[Bud Dickman]

The person was saying that some apartments in Finland don't have ways to ring a particular apartment from the outside so people just use cell phones to call the person in the apartment.

Yeah, the person in the apartment can have a landline. How is the person who is waiting outside supposed to reach that landline if he doesn't have a cell phone? I think you misunderstood THE POST.

Re:No longer required..

[SCHecklerX]

I agree with you. But recently verizon started offering true pay as you go where you only pay the $.99 fee on days you use the service. Of course, you still have to make a payment every couple of months to keep the service active, and there may be a minimum on that, but it's better than paying a minimum of $30/month just to have the damned thing in case you need it.

Re:No longer required..

[pilgrim23]

As an actual pay phone user; I realize I am in the minority but this truly will be a issue for me. I do not carry a cell phone. Partially a decision not to be tagged at all times by such a nuisance, and partially the fact that almost every cell phone, PDA, radio, MP3 player, clock, I have ever carried will be dead within a week. I do not know if it is something in my electrical field or "aura" but I do know it is true.
I have indeed been in a situation where placing a call would have been helpful and no, people are not so helpful to lend them. I usually just do what I did before the age of electronic indifference: I just don't call. WHen I need to place a call I rely on pay phones. and I am sure other companies will provide these; outragous in cost but available.
By the way, my HOME phone is a land line rotary and I HATE "press 1 to get abused, press 2 to be ignored, press 3 for obnoxious music" menus..

Re:No longer required..

[Hatta]

$80 a year does not compete with pay phones. Pay phones could charge $2 a call and I'd still be paying less than that. Let me know when there's a phone that costs nothing ($0) up front, and charges you only for minutes you use and not until you use them, stays activated indefinitely, and works everywhere. Then and only then will pay phones be obsolete.

Re:No longer required..

[Jhon]

The pay as you go phones are for people who are either A) poor (obviously because they can't manage finances since they bought this) or B) buy into the whole "it's cheaper cuz you pay for the minutes up front".

Or C) They are GOOD with their finances and are willing to pay $.25 per minute for 50 or so minutes per month they *WILL* use rather than pay $40+ per month or more for minutes they will *NEVER* use.

I fell in to this catagory through 2005. ATT had a deal where I spent $25, got a cell phone with $15 of minutes on it ($.10 per minute) -- and got 20 minutes per month for free every month for 1 year. The entire plan cost me $50 over a year (I needed to buy one $25 phone card when I ran low on minutes one month).

Other than for work, I can't see how ANYONE can spend more than 100 (hell, even 400) minutes on a cell phone per month. Even now, I RARELY go over 200 minutes per month.

Re:No longer required..

[ender-]

Ok, I have to ask, are the Finnish apartment developers or the construction companies just too cheap to install doorbells?
Or do the Finn's just not want to associate with people who can't afford or choose not to own a cell phone?

Seriously, what's the reasoning behind not having doorbells?

Re:No longer required..

[YrWrstNtmr]

The pay as you go phones are for people who ... B) buy into the whole "it's cheaper cuz you pay for the minutes up front".

For me and my particular usage, it is cheaper. I pay ~$17/month total for my pay as you go. How much do you pay for your phone?

Re:No longer required..

[SCHecklerX]

Except that until recently, pay as you go really meant "we charge you a dollar every day whether you used the phone or not, and the money you prepay is only good for a month or two, whether you used the phone or not". So you are still paying $30+ a month. Verizon recently began offering pay as you go where you only pay on the days you use the phone. I think the minutes still expire though, which I guess is ok, so long as the minimum purchase every month or two is $5 or less.

Where pay as you go really sucks is with data. I would like to use SMS with mailbiff, but at $.10 a message, I just don't bother. Internet use is also still expensive if you really use it each day. If you don't, there's not much point to using it on your phone in the first place.

Re:No longer required..

[Darinbob]

I read that they phased out the last public pay phone in Helsinki earlier this year. The article said that some private pay phones still exist, such as in hospitals. Some of the older booths were turned into saunas...

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada has Virgin Mobile, which allows you to pay as little as $100 for credits that last a full year. This is far cheaper than most plans will cost at a minimum rate. Depends how much you talk for the total price for the year, of course. It can certainly be cheaper than a plan on a total cost per year basis, no doubts at all, if you don't use many minutes.

Re:No longer required..

[atomicthumbs]

Gee, maybe I'd just stop by the side of the road and use a fucking call box, as those are intended for use in emergencies.

Re:No longer required..

[zippthorne]

There is only one metric for measuring something's utility to society. And that metric is profit.

Obviously, the potential users need to have decent information in order to act rationally, and in the case of things like a military, it's difficult to gain that information because the benefits are long-term: even countries with weak militaries don't just keep getting invaded all the time, but by being invaded you run the very real risk of not being able to determine how much you spend for someone else's military.

But pay-phones are not like that. People act pretty rationally about pay-phones, and that is why they don't tend to make money for the phone company. If you want a phone company to keep them around for civic use (i.e. emergency calls) then you should pay them for it. Municipalities could pay for a civil communications system (much like the various safety call-boxes on college campuses), either using existing phones or a dedicated emergency call-box system. Or you could charge for emergency calls. But they'd probably have to be more expensive than regular calls owing to their infrequency compared to pre-cell phone total phone usage, and the need to maintain the entire network off the profits.

A company whose revenues are below it's cost of operation goes out of business. A division that does the same thing costs its parent company money, and obviously cannot be spun off into a separate company.

A company that uses toxic materials to increase its profits over safety concerns is immoral. A company that decides to get out of an area for which there are not enough customers to sustain it? That's just good business, and that's good for everybody all around. It's how the economy relaxes toward its most efficient configuration. It's also how evolution works, but slashdot is full of anti-science fundies, so I can understand why such cynicism would appear here.

Re:No longer required..

[Critical Facilities]

Well that's just bizarre, then, because I don't have a cell phone, and seem to function just fine
Well, ok, so it's not a 'necessity' in the sense that you need it to survive, but to make the argument that you can't afford it and see absolutely no value in it all the while posting to Slashdot (via a computer with internet access, neither of which are free) seems a little contradictory.

Re:No longer required..

[g0at]

Then there is the whole social issue, sometimes people just don't want to deal with you if you don't have a mobile. Eh? Can you explain in more detail what you mean (are you being serious)?

-b

Re:No longer required..

[zakezuke]

I have no cellphone. I used payphones three time this year, definitely under $4 in total. Your idea forces me to plan ahead and buy $95 + tax of stuff periodically during the course of the year. It sucks. The side benefit is one can have a emergency phone for pennies and make a call in a pinch. Everyone should have such a phone in the car.

But, the sticker is the tracphone seems to require landline activation, well unless you can just buy an additional card and activate it that way.

I'm with you, I like pay phones. They are good things to have in an emergency. But they are obsolete and hard to find.

Re:No longer required..

[fprintf]

My wife and I have Tracfones. I think we do end up paying $.25 per minute.

90 minute airtime cards with 90 days of service are $24.95 + tax at Walmart. Using online codes I can usually add on a bonus 60 minutes or so, but worse case scenario they are $.27 per minute.

Now the thing is, we usually talk less than 30 minutes in a month, so our plan costs us somewhere less than $10 per month per phone. It is still a lot of money, considering our landline is $13 per month for unlimited local calling and our cable bill is $14 per month. In that perspective, these toys for emergencies are somewhat expensive. I'd not think that a poorer person having to decide between a home phone, cable TV or a limited account cell phone would choose to have a cell phone if they cannot afford all three.

Now I have laid this out, I am going to see if I can get another service much cheaper for more minutes.

Re:No longer required..

[Critical Facilities]

Amen brother. I'm married, kids, and a tech job where I maintain a vital piece of equipment. Never owned a cell phone.
Ok, I'll bite...how vital is this piece of equipment if you aren't required to carry a cell phone (and yes, I mean required, not expected)? Look, I'm not making the argument that everyone must have a cell phone nor that everyone who has one uses it for important needs, but to make the case that they're never or rarely needed is really a little short sighted.

Re:No longer required..

[zakezuke]

Payphones were generally phased out years ago, with only a handful left in the very centre of Helsinki for tourists. There is a payphone in Turku on the UTU campus, or so i'm told.

I have a friend there who was likely the last person to get a cell phone.

Re:No longer required..

[mr_mischief]

Gee, maybe you can find a call box along every highway where you live. Around here, people have either cell phones, CB radios they can turn to channel 9, or light up the road flares and wait.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

> Either an access plan that is $1 per day (you ONLY get charged the "access fee" of $1 on a day that you actually make a call) + 10 cents per minute, OR, a fee where the minutes are 25 cents.

Serious Question: Are you sure the $1/d access fee is only charged when you make/receive a call? Technically, a phone "accesses" the network every time it's turned on. I've avoided such phones precisely because "access fee of $1/d" sounds like telcospeak for "we're using language that makes you think you only pay to make calls, but we're actually charging $30/month."

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada on the other hand doesn't have anything nearly as affordable as Tracfone (or I would get one for use when I'm traveling there).

Well, I paid $30 for my phone, and it's $100 for a year pre-paid card with Rogers. Not quite as good, but still comparable.

Re:No longer required..

[jsiren]

Seriously, we have more mobile phones than people. (In 2006, number of mobile phone subscriptions was 107.6/100 people, source.) Apparently everybody always carries a phone, never loses or breaks it, and no battery ever dies, no prepaid SIM runs out, or nobody's phone bill reaches the cap they wisely set upon themself with the carrier - just as they were meant to call their friend to let them in. No, let the poor bastards freeze to death.

Yes, they are too cheap; besides, door intercom systems are subject to vandalism.

Re:No longer required..

[Prof.Phreak]

Indeed!

I think it's stupid removing hardware that's already there. Why not just make'em free for local calls?

Maybe if they eliminate the folks who actually physically go around collecting quarters from those things, they'd actually break even by selling ad space? Also won't have to make phones tough---'cause there's no money in the case.

I mean really, what does it cost to maintain a street phone that's already physically in place? (and that you only service once in a long while if it's broken). The good-will alone would be worth it for the corp! (ie: ``Count on us in an emergency!'' banner or something). Maybe the city could subsidize or give a tax break on that.

I think that's what many countries in the eastern block did when their currency became worthless (coin currency disappeared). They just made all street phones completely free. Call anywhere local. I think that's a pretty neat idea, why don't the phone corps do that? I bet if it was Google behind this, they'd do it. Provide free phone calls but with a 15 second advertisement that plays as you dial the number or something.

Just a crazy idea...

Re:No longer required..

[Isaac-Lew]

I used 1204 minutes last month. The month before, it was 1345 minutes. I don't even think I use the phone that much, I hate long phone conversations. Not everyone has the same usage patterns.

Re:No longer required..

[Isaac-Lew]

Most pay phones in my area (Washington DC) cost more than a quarter (between 50 cents to a dollar, & that's just for a local call). At those rates, a pay-as-you-go cell phone starts looking more reasonable.

Re:No longer required..

[geekoid]

So do pay phones.

Re:No longer required..

[Average]

What I'm amazed with is that all the prepaid plans I've looked at in Canada charge for long distance (even in the same province... if I'm in Edmonton and calling a guy in Edmonton with a Calgary-number phone... 25 or 35c a minute on top of the prepaid rate. Holy cow.)

Long distance is just sort of a given in the States. Hell, with my Tracfone, at basically the 19-20c/minute I pay for minutes, I can call anyone in the US, Canada, or landlines in most of the western world and a fair bit of Latin America. Really.

Re:No longer required..

[xtracto]

Even if someone won't lend you a cellphone in case you run off with it, just go into a building and ask if you can use their landline.

There are two flaws with this, first, with the current "corporisation" of all the commerce, this random building you talk about would be a starbucks, McDonalds, Zara, BestBuy, etc. shop, where, after you arrived and asked to use their landline, the employee will tell you that he can not do it because it is prohibited by company policy. Seriously, it is similar to the use of the toilet.

Now, the second scenario is, if you are at 1:00 am and need/want to make a call. You would have to break into such building to borrow their landline.

Personally, I do not like cell phones. It is my opinion that they invade privacy. And I certainly hate when people's phone ring in the middle of a film and THEY ANSWER THE DAMN THING! Or when you are talking with someone and suddenly, after their cell phone rings, it is more important to answer the damn phone than to finish what you were talking.

I have a mobile (because of my girlfriend... and because the 2x1 orange wedensdays), however certainly I have no idea where in my house it is just now (gotta look it =os) and as usually I forgot to charge it should be dead. When people ask me for some contact number, I give them my email. Email, for me, is the perfect impersonal contact technology.

Re:No longer required..

[leoxx]

Sounds like I've touched a nerve on the cell phone political correctness topic on slashdot.

Re:No longer required..

[michrech]

It specifically states on the web page that the $1 is only assessed if you actually make a call that day.

Of course, you could have just gone to their web page and verified for yourself. :)

> Either an access plan that is $1 per day (you ONLY get charged the "access fee" of $1 on a day that you actually make a call) + 10 cents per minute, OR, a fee where the minutes are 25 cents.

Serious Question: Are you sure the $1/d access fee is only charged when you make/receive a call? Technically, a phone "accesses" the network every time it's turned on. I've avoided such phones precisely because "access fee of $1/d" sounds like telcospeak for "we're using language that makes you think you only pay to make calls, but we're actually charging $30/month."

Re:No longer required..

[wakingdreaming]

That is, unless you find yourself alone without a cellphone in the middle of nowhere. But then again there probably wouldn't be a pay phone there anyway. That's when you go back to that castle you passed a few miles back and see if they have a phone you can use.

Re:No longer required..

[forgoodmeasure]

Well, no. T-Mobile's and AT&T's pay as you go plan works out to about $100 per year, plus the cost of a $40 phone. Virgin-Sprint costs $20 per quarter, or $80 per year. It's not expensive, but it's not cheap either.

Re:No longer required..

[ender-]

Yes, they are too cheap; besides, door intercom systems are subject to vandalism. Wow, is crime that rampant in Finland? It's not like a lot of areas in the US are crime-free but with the possible exception of the uber-slums [with which I have no experience], I've never seen an apartment complex that has a gated system and no way of contacting the resident.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, ok, so it's not a 'necessity' in the sense that you need it to survive, but to make the argument that you can't afford it and see absolutely no value in it all the while posting to Slashdot (via a computer with internet access, neither of which are free) seems a little contradictory. <sarcasm>
Yeah because the cellphone's "necessity" exceeds that of a computer or the Internet. Or, if not, everyone has all of that money to afford the phone and the plan after purchasing the computer and Internet access. No flaws in your logic at all. Glad you gave an irrefutable view.
</sarcasm>

Re:No longer required..

[tepples]

Do plans in the states really need to be multi-year? No, but even the phones for use with month-to-month plans are network-locked.

With the rate that people replace them, I'm sure it couldn't be that hard to buy a cheap used phone (say $30 or less) Is it possible to buy used phones in person, or does it require Internet access?

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they are too cheap; besides, door intercom systems are subject to vandalism. Wow, is crime that rampant in Finland? It's not like a lot of areas in the US are crime-free but with the possible exception of the uber-slums [with which I have no experience], I've never seen an apartment complex that has a gated system and no way of contacting the resident. I think he means vandalism as in 'kids jamming the buttons with chewing gum' or stuff like that.

Re:No longer required..

[BorgCopyeditor]

There's nothing contradictory about behaving as though one thing is useful and claiming that some other thing is not necessary. Indeed, there's nothing contradictory about using some device to talk to someone and saying to that person, by means of that very device, that you think such devices are not a necessity. You yourself put in the talk about "see[ing] absolutely no value in it," which is, again, completely different from (and completely logically compatible with) claiming something is not necessary.

Re:No longer required..

[gb506]

Do you actually know any able bodied human being who cannot afford $140 per year, or $2.69 per week, for a phone? Base level POTS service is more expensive than that.

Re:No longer required..

[MT628496]

They may not be willing, but AT&T is willing to bet they'll decide to do it now. Or, at least enough people will that it will be more profitable than the pay phones.

Re:No longer required..

[djrok212]

Why should the phone company be required to maintain money losing pay phones because you don't have a cell phone. If you think pay phones are a right, then lobby congress to have them provided by the government. Remember phones companies are just that, for profit companies.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

A: No.
Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html

Re:No longer required..

[penix1]

.Because there are cellphone everywhere? But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make?

Oh its about profit...ok..

Worse, cities like Baltimore removed all their fire call boxes on the promise that pay phones will be on those corners where the fire call boxes were. Will they have to reinstall all those call boxes now because the phone company is breaking their promise?

Re:No longer required..

[cain]

A: No.
Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html

Re:No longer required..

[xaxa]

Phoning saves me getting embarrassed if I get the wrong house! That's why I do it.

Delivery companies in the UK generally ask for a phone number too, the last time I had something delivered they rang and checked someone would still be in in half an hour, then rang again to tell me they were outside.

Re:No longer required..

[SydShamino]

My phone cost me $8 and I pay $90 for a full year of air time, at $0.18 a minute which I'll never use up. If I just wanted to call 911, I could have saved the $90. This is with Virgin Mobile.

And what about those who either choose not to have a cellphone

Try screaming and waving your arms. Someone will a cell phone will call 911 for you (or because of you).

Re:No longer required..

[xaxa]

When I was 16 until I was 20 I had a pay-as-you-go phone -- I didn't make many calls, but I could receive them. I wasn't 'poor', just living on a student budget with better things to spend money on. I eventually got a contract since I found a good deal online and now I don't have to think about the cost of sending loads of texts.

Re:No longer required..

[modecx]

Say your friend lives on the fourth floor. What is knocking going to accomplish. Think he'll hear all the way down to the main entrance?

Well, if you're of Viking descent, he damned well better.

Like they used to say in the old country... Make Thor Proud. KNOCK REAL LOUD!

Re:No longer required..

[xaxa]

Brad?

Re:No longer required..

[SirWhoopass]

Nope, no call boxes. I've pushed my motorcycle miles in 90+ degree heat as a result. And let me tell you what... I'll never forget to pass up on that gas station ever again, thinking I can make it to the next one.

Then again, I knew what I was doing when I pushed it. Just me by myself. I knew walking for hours wouldn't do any harm. When I'm traveling in the winter, with the family, the car is stocked and prepared if we get stuck in the snow. Just like my parents did when I was a kid and cell phones didn't exist.

Re:No longer required..

[wakingdreaming]

Just stay here in the car, Janet! I'll be back soon!

Re:No longer required..

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Sounds like I've touched a nerve on the cell phone political correctness topic on slashdot."

Sounds like my original critcism about your lack of reading comprehension didn't take. Ha!

Re:No longer required..

[gravis777]

Yes, TracPhones are ridicoulously inexpensive. Cingular to go is not that much more, and you tend to get better coverage.

They are not all that expensive in other countries either.

SEVEN years ago in Europe, I had MaxMobile, and I paid roughly $80 USD for it. It came with like 200 shillings of minutes, but I NEVER had to buy more minutes, and I called the US on it. Why was it so cheap? Because it did not count against your minutes if you recieved calls, and it did not count against your minutes if you called 0-800 numbers, which AT&T had. Since we had a calling plan with AT&T, it cost a whole 3 cents a minute for me to call the states from Austria. Like I said, this was seven years ago. I am sure it is ridicoulusly cheaper now than it was then.

Seven years ago in Europe, the only people I saw who used the payphones were Americans, and they had their little tour books with them trying to figure out how to dial AT&T or MCI. No European ever used a payphone - Everyone had a cell. It seemed in Italy if you were old enough to walk, you had a cell phone. It seemed more people had cell phones as it was cheaper to have a cell phone than to have a land line in several of the countries.

What was all that ranting saying? In a nutshell, in my experience, cell phones are cheaper in Europe than in the US.

Re:No longer required..

[SirWhoopass]

The central simulator for our research laboratory. Every single bit of work we do utilizes it. Although the equipment has changed, I've been in this role since before cell phones were affordable for the masses. We got by back then. It takes some planning, and the understanding that somethings things will break, and you need to have failure plans. Obviously, no one dies if the simulator goes down. On the other hand, there were plenty of life-critical jobs before cell phones, and people made plans to accommodate them.

If my employer thinks I need to carry a phone then they could purchase one, provide it, and we'd negotiate what the terms of use were. There's no way that, for the same salary, I'm suddenly going to be on call 24/7.

Which is my whole point. If having a cell phone freed me from sitting at a desk XX hours a week, just in case of a failure, then it would be a good thing. In my experience, however, most people still sit at the desk for XX hours and then answer the cell phone on top of it.

Re:No longer required..

[petermgreen]

I think my last bill was around 5 euros or something ($7)
Was that a months bill? a quarters bill? or a years bill?

I'm not in the US but afaict the main issue with mobiles over there is very short expiry of minuites on prepay plans. The result of this is they have to keep spending just to keep thier mobile active even if they hardly ever use it. Contract plans there tend to have a lot of included minuites but also very high subscription costs.

Over here in the UK things are much better in that regard. On 02 from what I can find you just have to make or receive one call every 180 days to stay active.

On the other hand we europeans suffer from high roaming and international call charges within the EU while those in the USA get calls across the entire USA included at reasonable rates.

Re:No longer required..

[jsiren]

No, crime is not that rampant. It's a matter of perceived versus actual risk. People perceive it as a risk that they might unwittingly let in a burglar or other criminal with the intercom, and the construction company perceives the intercom as a liability that needs cabling, maintenance, and is a target for vandalism, whether that vandalism exists or not.

The doors are kept locked in many buildings because most buildings no longer have on-site janitors responsible for keeping an eye on the premises. What follows is the thought that only trusted persons, i.e. residents or those approved by them, can be allowed in. In reality, some buildings have no janitors, but still choose to have the street entrance doors open during the day. I haven't seen any more vandalism in these. (Don't know about other types of crime.) In fact, I've got a hard time remembering any significant vandalism in residential buildings. (It does exist, just that it's rare and concentrated in some problem areas.)

Re:No longer required..

[michrech]

You'll get over it. Not one person had an issue with how I posted. If you want to post to me in the future, try making your post have something to do with the topic, m'kay?

Welcome to my foe list. You can join the other spelling/grammar/English comprehension nazis there.

A: No.
Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/T/top-post.html

Re:No longer required..

[mitgib]

Oh its about profit...ok.. Maybe it's just about being able to provide better data to the NSA

Re:No longer required..

[vux984]

Your idea forces me to plan ahead and buy $95 + tax of stuff periodically during the course of the year.

Not really. It forces you to plan ahead so that you won't rely on payphones even 3 times a year.

I think you could probably just borrow someone elses phone for those 3 times, or use the phone belonging to a local business. Although you might expect to pay a few bucks for the priviledge, whether its buying merchandise (a coffe or a donut or whatever, or just paying straight up to use the phone.

Re:No longer required..

[cain]

Wow. You're one touchy son of a bitch. I point out one little thing and suddenly I'm a nazi. (!) Good luck with that foe list thing. Hope it works out for you.

Re:No longer required..

[nurb432]

Until the next storm that takes out power. Or forcing everyone to pony up 20 bucks a month as 'insurance'.

The greed of todays corporate america is mind boggling.

Re:No longer required..

[Fluffy Bunnies]

I could get a plan that costs 0 to open, 0.59 a month, and 0.059/min for any calls I make (No, I didn't typo the numbers), using any unlocked GSM phone I want to. Oh, and receiving calls and sms is free. What you're talking about isn't a steal, it's theft.

Re:No longer required..

[Fluffy Bunnies]

The prices are in euros. The tubes ate the euro sign.

Re:No longer required..

[amber_of_luxor]

> In north america one can easily get by without a cell phone, and I do so every single day.

You haven't applied for a job recently.
HR departments expect one to have both a landline and a cell phone.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

The landline service for the student apartments (some 2000 people live in Otaniemi) at Helsinki University of Technology was decommisioned this year because no one was using it. I wonder if anyone bothers wiring new buildings for landline anymore (except maybe for DSL).

Re:No longer required..

[demonlapin]

FYI, and I have no financial interest in this, T-mobile has a prepaid setup where $100 up front gets you 1000 minutes that are valid for a year. That's service for just over $8/mo. Comes with free access to CNN. ABC, and ESPN headlines too.

Re:No longer required..

[zakezuke]

Eh? Can you explain in more detail what you mean (are you being serious)? I'm not in .fi but I can understand where the parent is coming from. Mobiles are used in social networking, both text and voice. If you don't have one, you are not able to be social on the same level and are seen as a luddite. Not like your North American luddite who uses a rotary phone as a form of protest or avoiding the tone phone fee. You won't be invited to impromptu events as you have to be home to get messages. It wouldn't be so bad if you could text landlines.

Re:No longer required..

[Beardo the Bearded]

What the hell is wrong with you?

TEN DOLLARS IS MORE THAN A QUARTER.

Pay phones in my city are a quarter for a local call for about ten minutes.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

You just have to ask the nearest illegal alien,he's got one.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Then there is the whole social issue, sometimes people just don't want to deal with you if you don't have a mobile.

I know what you mean. Just the other day I had to "deal with" this person who didn't have a Macbook. Not even the cheap white one! My family has them, my friends have them, my coworkers have them, my professional associates have them ... why is this so hard for people?

This is the 21st century, people. There are some things you just *need*:
  - utility knife
  - accounts on GMail, Facebook, LinkedIn (at the very least!)
  - underwear, clean
  - Macbook (pref. black)
  - credit card
  - iPhone
  - martial arts training
  - personal top-level domain name
  - blog

If you don't even have these basics, you're just making it harder on the rest of us who might have to "deal with you". I mean, you may as well not exist.

Example. Yesterday this homeless man asked me for help, and I was all like "sure, I'll just obopay.com you a few bucks, what's your d1g1ts?", and he was all "um, I don't have a phone", and so I was like "d00d, I *knew* you looked old!". Guy must have been *ancient* -- he didn't even have that big old crappy analog brick the size of a loaf of bread that Michael Douglas used in "Wall Street", and that's like 20 years old now.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not the original poster, but yes, I would say we should force AT&T to maintain an unprofitable business line.

You see, they aren't a normal business, they're a monopoly on phone lines where they operate. With that monopoly comes the responsibility to maintain certain public services like pay phones. It's sad that we have a government that has abdicated its responsibility to the people, and exists only to serve large corporations.

And I'm in favor of regulation that actually benefits people.

Oh, and if AT&T doesn't want to continue running pay phones? Then they're free to shut down operations, and let their infrastructure revert to the ownership of the people.

If there's one thing that does a worse job running a critical infrastructure service than government, it's for profit business.

Re:No longer required..

[belg4mit]

You (and many others) have negelcted to account for the hassle and energy of keeping the little bugger charged.

Re:No longer required..

[ToBeContinued]

If you buy fewer than 100 minutes, they cost more and expire sooner

They don't appear to expire sooner anymore, at least according to T-Mobile's prepaid rates page. But, they still do cost more per minute.

Re:No longer required..

[mr_mischief]

My cars are stocked in case of getting stuck, too. If I hit a deer, cow, or another car and I'm bleeding from the head, having a car stocked for two days in the cold doesn't do me much good. A cell phone might. I'm not saying it's a necessity, but it sure does give me some extra peace of mind.

There was a time when you could borrow a stranger's house phone, too, which probably won't happen these days. Again, that doesn't make a cell phone a necessity, but it's a better investment in convenience than most.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

So, where can I temporarily get a cell phone + service for a quarter?

Re:No longer required..

[CRCulver]

Finns aren't of Viking descent. You must be thinking of Sweden, a whole country over.

Re:No longer required..

[49152]

That would still mean they would be willing to associate with all other finn's ;-)

You should realize that in Finland (and the neighboring countries) every one has a cell phone, there is virtually no exception. Even small kids and street bums has cell phones (usually pre-paid ones since then you can at least receive calls for free).

I live in Norway, mostly the same story here although it happened in Finland a few years earlier because of Nokia I guess.

Almost all apartment buildings here have intercom's/buzzers that let you talk to people and open the front door from your apartment.

But guess what, in my apartment the intercom is connected to the cell network so when someone is at my door I get them on my cell phone. Great system, means I can answer my door if I am at home or not. Also saves on wiring I guess.

I realize I could have used a land line, but I have not had a land line for nearly 10 years now. Why bother paying for something I wont need and wont use. In fact most younger people I know does not have a land line.

Re:No longer required..

[mekane8]

very good research, except there's more to it than what you've said. That dollar-per-day activated is not at your sole discretion. It gets applied if someone calls you, even if you never make a call that day. (Your phone was still "activated"). Even if you turn your phone off, you can still get charged. So, what, never give your number out?

I still think phone companies in the U.S. are greedy and are out to squeeze every penny out of their customers possible.

Re:No longer required..

[LighterShadeOfBlack]

Its not about running away with their phone..Its about a call to a person about whom the owner has no idea & in case any trouble,the phone owner will be the first to face it. I think you're being paranoid. What exactly do you think they're gonna do? Bomb threats? Call the Paedophile Hotline? Doesn't seem to be a very likely scenario, especially given that you'd more or less be in earshot of the conversation. If someone was going to make a seriously "trouble-making" phone call I think it'd be much more likely they'd use a non-contract pay-as-you-go phone with calltime paid for in cash* - that way there's no chance of it being linked back to them by you remembering their face etc. Kinda off the subject now, but honestly I do think that's a bit of a crazy reason not to let someone borrow your phone.

Thats when assuming there are always buildings around you, open & welcoming you at Night anywhere! Well like I said, if there are no buildings then it's quite unlikely there would've been any payphones there anyway. As for things being open, you don't have late night bars? OK, so you don't get them everywhere but, here in Britain at least, you're about twice as likely to find an open bar/pub/club which would let you use their phone in an emergency then you are to find a payphone that hasn't been vandalised.

Whether payphones are necessary or not, AT&T are still just a business and profit is their only aim. If payphones are considered to provide a necessary public service then it's not up to AT&T to be a charity. Exactly who it's up to depends on your point of view I guess. Maybe there's a market for an innovative company to buy up the payphones and create a more profitable market, or maybe communities should band together to foot the bill for them, or maybe the government should subsidise the costs to keep them running. In any case, in answer again to your question from the original post: It is about profit and it always will be. That's the economic system you've got and to expect anything else from a company would be madness.

*: I assume that's at least possible in the U.S. - if not, it should be and that would also be the answer to the "cellphones are too expensive" argument some others have made for the necessity of payphones

Re:No longer required..

[devilspgd]

I've lived in an apartment building without an externally accessible buzzer, so if you wanted me to let you in, phoning me was the only option.

I more or less didn't bother with people who didn't have cell phones, too much hassle.

Re:No longer required..

[devilspgd]

The best part, once you pay the $100 once, you can pay $10/year after that to maintain your service and add a small number of minutes -- So for a low volume, or "semi-emergency" (but not 911 emergency) user, your cost is literally $10/year, or under $0.85/month, on an ongoing basis.

Re:No longer required..

[garo5]

It's just that in Finland everybody, his mother and his six years old son has a mobile phone. Even some our dogs have a gsm module in their necklace. It's that simple =) Also quite rare percent of us use a prepaid mobile deal. Most of us gets a bill from the phone company every month and pays it. People don't need a credit card for that, it's just a reqular invoice.

Re:No longer required..

[michrech]

So, I should take what you are telling me as proof instead of what is actually on AT&T's web page?

This is what I see on their web page:

*Daily Access Fee:
Daily access fee of $1.00 for the Pay As You Go Unlimited Talk plan is assessed each day you use your phone for a voice call and is debited from your account balance the day after you use your phone.

If your phone is off, how, exactly, can it be "used for a voice call", hmm?

Like I said, there is *plenty* to hate AT&T for (like, for example, their handling of "naked DSL" and the "sales lady"'s outright LIE to me about the fee (It's $25 a month *on top of* the DSL package price if you don't have/want phone service. Care to guess how much a phone line cost monthly? Then she proceeded, at legnth, to tell me how it was actually cheaper than having a phone line and DSL. I've heard of "new math" before, but this was crazy!)), there is no need to make stuff up.

On a side note -- I just read the "Plan Terms" (a link is on the bottom of the web page I linked to earlier). No where does it back up your claim.

very good research, except there's more to it than what you've said. That dollar-per-day activated is not at your sole discretion. It gets applied if someone calls you, even if you never make a call that day. (Your phone was still "activated"). Even if you turn your phone off, you can still get charged. So, what, never give your number out?

I still think phone companies in the U.S. are greedy and are out to squeeze every penny out of their customers possible.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

They got too greedy and priced themselves out of the market. Maybe a little ironic? On average cell phone rates are now cheaper. Throw on top the really crappy rates (ie: complete ripoff) for pay phones since they allowed subdivision of area codes (necessary evil, but split zones should have never been allowed to count as long distance), piss poor maintenance, prepaid phones which are competitive enough with calling cards, and the apparent end of the payphone was inevitable.

Only downside is that you'll have to beg or offer money to multiple passers by if you're without your own cell for some reason or your battery died.

Re:No longer required..

[Das Modell]

Was that a months bill? a quarters bill? or a years bill?

Several months, but I don't remember how many.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I recently calculated that we had been spending $7 per month in electricity by leaving a Nokia charger plugged in 24 hours a day, even when the phone isn't connected to it.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you don't spend that much time on the phone because nobody wants to talk to you?

Maybe it's because you impose YOUR way of life on others?

What does the man in the mirror say?

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

or (C) People who can practice fiscal responsibility and as a result have become very financially independent and successful. Why pay $50/month if you can get the same service for $10/month? The only thing that overpaying for a service proves is that you can't do math.

Re:No longer required..

[Cro Magnon]

Fair enough. I didn't usually bother with people who didn't have doorbells. :-P

Re:No longer required..

[Jhon]

Is that including work related phone calls? You spend roughly 1 day a month on the phone? Really? 40 minutes a day sounds like a lot to me.

Including work, I spent 292 minutes on my cell last month. 82 minutes of that were personal (calling family, for example). And about 30 minutes of that was one long call walking someone (a fairly non-technical person) through resetting a router and changing a gateway 4 states away.

I sent roughly ~40 text messages and received about 120.

While it's true that not everyone has the same usage patters, I can't figure out WHY so much time on the phone. Or watching TV. Or text messages.

Then again, I spend about 1 or 2 hours a day reading... sompe people consider THAT a waste of time.

Re:No longer required..

[modecx]

Way to kill a joke with facts, Mr. Party Pooper.

Re:No longer required..

[msromike]

Perhaps this is the time for you to start up a non-profit organization with the mission to provide pay phone service to underserved areas.

Re:No longer required..

[Anonymous Coward]

>"when you reach the outside door it is expected that you can phone your acquaintance to let him know >you are waiting to enter"

Plan ahead at let them know you'll be arriving at $time_arriving.

>"Then there is the whole social issue, sometimes people just don't want to deal with you if you >don't have a mobile."

Then fuck them in the ear.

Re:No longer required..

[demonlapin]

Yeah, but you have to be a really low-volume caller to use 30 minutes a year...

I'm pretty slim on minutes usage, around 60 a month, but that's hardcore. Still, it's by far the best prepaid plan around, and if you don't use free nights/weekends it's the cheapest plan period for people using less than 300-400 minutes/mo. I'm sure that's why they don't advertise the hell out of it; it would take away a lot of their customers that are on plans...

Re:No longer required..

[devilspgd]

Plus the initial 1000 minutes...

Re:No longer required..

[mekane8]

>So, I should take what you are telling me as proof instead of what is actually on AT&T's web page?

Well the only way I know is from having used the service, so I guess maybe first-hand experience counts? I suppose you'll have to take my word that I actually had a phone, but whatever.

This was a few years ago when it was Cingular. Does that still exist? Heck, maybe it's all changed. I'm just relaying the experience I had where I was definitely charged for a day where I made no calls, and the only activity was getting a voice mail.

Re:No longer required..

[michrech]

You just proved my position for me.

"...and the only activity was getting a voice mail."

You DO realize that, to get a voice mail, you actually make a phone call to do so?

As I've been trying to make clear (and it's *still* been going over people's heads), your "experience" was YEARS ago. Do you really think the phone companies were just going to stand still and keep things the way they were, especially after a freakin' merger?

It's no wonder we got Bush into the White House -- twice.

>So, I should take what you are telling me as proof instead of what is actually on AT&T's web page?

Well the only way I know is from having used the service, so I guess maybe first-hand experience counts? I suppose you'll have to take my word that I actually had a phone, but whatever.

This was a few years ago when it was Cingular. Does that still exist? Heck, maybe it's all changed. I'm just relaying the experience I had where I was definitely charged for a day where I made no calls, and the only activity was getting a voice mail.

Re:No longer required..

[demonlapin]

... but those expire at 1 year, no?

Re:No longer required..

[devilspgd]

Yes -- However, when you add a $10 card, it extends your expiry date for another year.

T-Mobile has a chart of options here -- Note the "Gold rewards" section, your expiration for all cards is one year once you reach gold status.

To reach gold status, you just add $100 once (the initial prepayment, to get the "$100 for the first year" part working)

Re:No longer required..

[demonlapin]

Aah, I am enlightened. I thought that the minutes expired 1 yr from purchase, regardless of other activity on the account. It makes it an even better deal.

Re:No longer required..

[devilspgd]

The key is to renew *before* expiry -- There is only one expiry date associated with your account based on when you most recently added minutes, but when you hit it, your balance drops to zero.

The trick is this: Don't wait until the last day, you're paying less then $0.03/day, splurge, blow the 19 cents, (maybe skip one payphone call?) do it a week early.

It's great for an infrequently heavy user -- Or myself, a frequent visitor to the US, I can blow through a few hundred minutes in a week, but on in-the-office trips I live on VoIP -- I never know how a trip will go until I've already arrived though.

Re:No longer required..

[mekane8]

I'm not sure what your Bush comment has to do with anything. (I voted for the other guy both times).

>You DO realize that, to get a voice mail, you actually make a phone call to do so?

I'm not sure why you assume that I checked my voice mail, noticed it was a dollar down and assumed it was not from that day. Actually, I turned on my phone, which had been OFF for two days and found that my account was now TWO dollars less than the last time it had been on. Thereby leading me to conclude that my account was charged for two days' activation. Since my phone had received a voicemail the previous day (a day it was not ON) I took this to mean that GETTING A CALL (even with the phone turned off) counted as an ACTIVATION.

Sorry for the caps, that's how I'm thinking. Feel free to ignore my emphasis, I'm just a little frustrated by your assumptions and your suggestions that I'm an idiot.

>Do you really think the phone companies were just going to stand still and keep things the way they were...?

Well from what you said about those two go-phone plans nothing has changed.

Re:No longer required..

[el americano]

Once you get to Gold Rewards status, all your minutes last a year, but you need 1000 minutes for that. If you just get the smaller denominations, they expire after 90 days. It's on that page, and here:

http://wiki.howardforums.com/index.php/Refills_and_Gold_Rewards

Mark it, dude.

[PHAEDRU5]

We just had a "buggy whip" moment. And it's only accelerating.

Welcome to the singularity.

Re:Mark it, dude.

[brunes69]

Either you have no idea what "the singularity" actually refers to specifically, or you are painting with brush strokes about 100 miles wide.

farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh look, a violent crime. Better go to the nearest payphone and report it so I don't get roped in to the case just 'cos I'm concerned about someone being beaten to a pulp.

Oh, no payphone.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[vhold]

This was my first thought as well. Case in point: A friend of mine used a pay phone to report a car being broken into, and when they asked for his name he just said "Nope" and hung up. The cops arrived shortly thereafter and caught the thief in the act. He would not have made that call on his phone.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[the_humeister]

Pay phones are still present. AT&T just won't be in charge of them. Verizon still has quite a few of them.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Ron_Fitzgerald]

Let's not forget that this gives opportunity to smaller companies that still will have payphones available. Maybe not as many as you are used to but still having them. Their use is not yet lost.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[qmaqdk]

Good point. But don't you still have the option of not testifying in an eventual court case?

Re:farewell, anonymity

[giminy]

Yah, I would think that the FCC/FTC/some oversight body would make payphones a requirement for operating telephones in the US? They should be looking out for the public's best interest. It seems like payphones have a great public benefit, especially for the poor.

I wonder what it would take to start a private payphone business (using AT&T/Verizon service, and putting your own payphones into the wild). I can't see payphones as being very profitable...I wonder if Congress would ever consider funding such a thing...

Reid

Re:farewell, anonymity

[b0s0z0ku]

Good point. But don't you still have the option of not testifying in an eventual court case?

In the USA, you're protected against giving testimony that's damaging to yourself (or your spouse). This same protection does not apply to testimony damaging to OTHERS. So yes, you could be required to testify or risk jail or fines for contempt of court.

-b.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[jayveekay]

So you see someone getting violently attacked. If your number one concern is to help the victim ASAP, then I would think that given the choice between A) whipping out your cellphone and dialing 911 to summon help, or B) looking for a payphone, running to it, (possibly asking whoever is using phone to hang up for an emergency), and dialing 911, I would think that you would choose option A.

Why would you be concerned about possibly getting "roped into the case" when someone's life is in jeopardy?

Re:farewell, anonymity

[BlowHole666]

Because this is slashdot and it is always about how big brother is out to get you. Even if big brother is not part of the initial equation. I think a normal person would use their cell phone and not a pay phone. I think they just wanted to put on their tin foil hat for a bit.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Kizzle]

Actually there are tons of third party pay phone providers out there. They're called cocots. They're easy to spot because they have odd business names on them and not Verizon/ATT/Sprint/ect.

So while ATT may be pulling out their pay phones, others will still exist.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point. But don't you still have the option of not testifying in an eventual court case?

Actually, no you don't have that option. In generally, you can be compelled to testify.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[rubycodez]

you've never lived in a big city where armed gangs spray the houses of witnesses with bullets, I take it

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Nick Driver]

Why would you be concerned about possibly getting "roped into the case" when someone's life is in jeopardy?

Because in Soviet Amerika, no good deed goes unpunished.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[boristdog]

You've apparently never had to report many crimes. The reporter is ALWAYS the first suspect.

I used to have to be the one to report any missing items in the IT dept in a state office. I always got the third degree. The investigating officer immediately asked lots of questions about my financial situation.

Why did I have to report all the crimes at this office? I was one of the only white guys there. I REALLY would not have wanted to be in that situation if I were black or hispanic.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, because I might care *just* enough to make the call, but not enough to --

* Deal with the cops, wherein I will be treated like a criminal.
* File a long, miserable police report.
* Take anywhere from a day to a week (or more) off work to wait around and testify in court *at least* once.
* Potentially have my own personal life trotted out for examination in court if the crime is serious enough to warrant a meaningful cross examination.
* Run the risk of repercussions from the perpetrator if he/she is violent enough.

As a misanthrope, it would be a real decision for me. If I were able to summon the police and then never, ever deal with it again, I probably would. If I suddenly became married to the thing because I took the first step, and my own life was compromised for someone I really don't give two shits about (and who likely won't appreciate it anyway), I may not bother. It would depend how drunk I was at the time.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[p3d0]

Sorry, Ms. Poppins, I didn't realize life was so simple.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[MBGMorden]

If you're that concerned, carry a random cell phone with no service activated. By national law, cell carriers have to accept incoming 911 calls even from phones with no active service plan.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Foolicious]

He would not have made that call on his phone. Why?

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

No problem, they got him on CCTV anyway. At least in the UK.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

You've lived in a big city where people stand idly by while armed gangs spray the houses of witnesses with bullets, I take it.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Rich0]

Yes, but the DA does have to pay you a hefty witness fee - I think it is something like $5/day.

For some crimes the witnesses end up being punished more harshly than the defendants (who may not show up and have their cases dropped).

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

He would not have made that call on his phone.
Why?


As someone who lives in a sketchy-but-rapidly-gentrifying area of Los Angeles I've witnessed a few crimes, including a real life drive-by-shooting, and I would only report them anonymously. Civil responsibility and all that aside it is just too big a risk to be on record as a witness for a crime that occurs in your own neighborhood.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[rubycodez]

nah, they duck and cover and then tell the cops nothing happened and they didn't hear or see shit

Re:farewell, anonymity

[jayveekay]

If you're afraid of an armed gang showing up at your house sometime in the distant future during a trial, then I don't think you're a candidate for showing the courage to act against the armed gang that is 100 feet away beating someone up right now. I think that you're far more likely to mind your own business entirely, and rationalize the victim of the violence as probably just another thug or prostitute getting what he/she deserves.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[EvanED]

No, but maybe you go around the corner. Or maybe you wait a day, call the police, and give an anonymous tip. Won't help the present victim, but could still lead to them catching the people who did it and getting them off the streets.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Doctor Faustus]

you've never lived in a big city where armed gangs spray the houses of witnesses with bullets, I take it
I live in Detroit and I've never heard of such a thing here. Maybe New Orleans...

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Anonymous Coward]

He would not have made that call on his phone.

What a selfish, paranoid jerk.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Rude Turnip]

The police ask for your name and address when you call about an emergency, even when you're not home. Like the GP said, you can just hang up a pay phone and leave. But try being uncooperative when they can later on subpoena the cell phone records to get your info.

I was driving home and saw someone lying on the side of a busy road, so I called the police. Since I was calling from my cell phone, I had enough common sense to give them my information. Nothing ever happened of it...but imagine if that (presumably drunk) person turned out to be dead; you bet your bippy I'd get a visit.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[jayveekay]

You don't need a payphone to provide anonymous information the next day. Just post it as "AC" on slashdot. :)

Given the right in the U.S. legal system for the accused to confront his accuser, I'm not sure that anonymous tips would be that helpful to the prosecution.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[EvanED]

You don't need a payphone to provide anonymous information the next day. Just post it as "AC" on slashdot. :)
Or email, or snail mail.

Given the right in the U.S. legal system for the accused to confront his accuser, I'm not sure that anonymous tips would be that helpful to the prosecution.
Anonymous tips aren't even good enough for a warrant. (IANAL, but I'm pretty sure this is true.) Nevertheless, they can jumpstart an investigation, point the police in the right direction, etc. So no, they aren't worth squat to the prosecution, but they are often invaluable to the police and detectives who are investigating a crime.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[petermgreen]

I'm going to use british prices because that is what I am familiar with, things may be a bit different in the US but I doubt it will be that significant.

First there is the cost of the payphones themselves. Afaict this is about £150 or so for a basic payphone. More than double that if you want something moderately vandal resistant.

If you use POTs there is the cost of the line and if you use phones that work on the pay to start speaking method (many cheap end ones do) the cost of calls where the person at the other end picks up but the user never pays.

If you set up a payphone at a location that is unlikely to be vandalised, is already being cleaned and where there is someone to empty it who is handling cash anyway this is pretty much the limit of your costs.

Lets say you charge 40p for a call up to 20 minuites (same as BT charge) and your calls average 5 minuites With only a negligable proportion going over the 20 minuites. Lets further say you pay 2p per minuite for your calls (probablly a little more than you will actually pay if you choose a decent provider) and avoid line rental by putting the phone on VOIP using an existing internet connection your profit will be 30p per call.

So if your phone cost £150 and your VOIP adaptor £30 your startup cost is £180 you need 600 calls to make back your investment, that is about a call a day for a year. In other words putting a payphone in your shop/hotel/etc for customers/passers by to use will cost you very little and may even make you some profit.

Phone boxes are going to cost a lot more (sorry I don't have figures for how much), beyond the cost of the box itself you have to send people out to clean the boxes, check them for vandalism and empty them. Those people and thier transportation are going to cost you significant money which afaict only the best locations can make back. And since you probablly won't have an existing internet connection you can use you will have to pay line rental to someone too.

The distinct impression I get is phone boxes operated primerally for profit (BT payphones aren't, BT inherited the commitement to maintain them from thier days as a government department) are only viable in a relatively small (and shrinking) number of locations.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Foolicious]

Nothing ever happened of it...but imagine if that (presumably drunk) person turned out to be dead; you bet your bippy I'd get a visit.

OH NO! A visit!

As you say, you bet your biffy they'd call or visit you; this makes perfect sense. But I still don't understand why this is so bad. You're a witness to a dangerous situation, but you're only willing to help out if it means absolutely no inconvenience for you? Not everyone is out to get you. Life is not TV. Not every cop is corrupt, and not even the corrupt ones are going to trying to pin the theoretical murder of some drunk on you because you called it in. Could your goodwill end up being a pain in your rear end -- time in court, time dealing with police? Definitely. But that just might be worth it, especially if you end up saving some drunk from freezing to death or drowning in his own puke and/or piss in a ditch on the side of the road. So kudos for being willing to help someone out, even if it meant the potential for inconveniences great or small in your life.

Re:farewell, anonymity

[Just Some Guy]

The cops arrived shortly thereafter and caught the thief in the act. He would not have made that call on his phone.

To really make that story resonate on Slashdot, you should have framed it as he was trying to anonymously expose a corrupt politician. That goes over better here.

Bound to happen

[Quato]

Everybody and their dog has a cell phone now. I think the last time I used a pay phone was the day I decided to get a cell phone.

Re:Bound to happen

[Archangel Michael]

My dog has two cell phones, thank you very much.

Re:Bound to happen

[sm62704]

My 76 year old dad has neither a cell phone nor a computer, and he likes it that way!

I'm reminded of my mother's dad, who still used the outhouse even after my Uncle installed plumbing and a bathroom. "I lived [n] years without [plumbing/cell phones] and I don't need one now!

I can just see when I hit 90. "Damn it, I lived 90 years without a matter replicator or a transporter and I don't need one now!"

-mcgrew

Re:Bound to happen

[InsaneProcessor]

Both of my cats each have a cell phone. I am getting one for my hamster too.

Re:Bound to happen

[InsaneProcessor]

And, my mother's life was saved because she carried a cell phone. Which way would you rather have it?

Re:Bound to happen

[phreakhead]

Literally.

Re:Bound to happen

[sm62704]

If I had my way we could have both cell phones AND pay phones. I only have a cell phone, haven't had a landline for years.

not a surprise

[networkBoy]

Death of an era, really.
As TFA says though, almost anyone and everyone has a wireless handset. I recent switched to a PP cell myself.
That's the real key... Pay phones were anonymous, with Pre-paid you can pay cas for the phone ans sim, using bogus info where needed. You can still be invisible.
-nB

Re:not a surprise

[Anonymous Coward]

with Pre-paid you can pay cas for the phone ans sim, using bogus info where needed. You can still be invisible.

Right. Aside from the video camera in the store, and the fact that your prepaid phone spends a lot of time in your home and office.

Re:not a surprise

[superswede]

...and the complete network of calls you make to people you know etc. With a log of such calls it will be quite easy to track your "anonymous" phone/SIM down.

Re:not a surprise

[Cyberax]

Next step: require credit card payment to buy pre-paid phone.

Re:not a surprise

[networkBoy]

To your post and GP post:
Naturally, if you use the phone for daily "stuff" then this holds true. However, should you have need of a one time connection, or a connection to only one or two numbers for several instances, then a pre-paid phone is still an acceptable solution, by no means ideal, but certainly acceptable. With a low end phone the cost is on-par or cheaper than pay phones.

-nB

Re:not a surprise

[Lost Engineer]

Hence the reason that, if you're a drug dealer, you need a throw away phone, preferably stolen. Jeez don't they teach you kids anything in movies these days?

Hang on...

[greyworld]

Bell did not invent the telephone. It was Antonio Meucci!

Re:Hang on...

[Polysick]

but Bell was the first one to make a device that transmitted clear speech.

Re:Hang on...

[the_humeister]

Riiight... and next you're going to tell me that Christopher Columbus wasn't the first person to discover the Americas, that there's a NEW Mexico, that there's no Santa Claus...

Re:Hang on...

[sm62704]

The history of the invention of the telephone is a confusing claim and counterclaim, further worsened by the lawsuits which hoped to resolve the patent claims of individuals. It is important to note that there is no one "inventor of the telephone", though Alexander Graham Bell is often credited as such, and the Italian Antonio Meucci was recognized by US Congress on 11th June 2002 for his contributions to inventing a telephone. The modern telephone is the result of work done by many people, all worthy of recognition of their contributions to the field. Bell was the first to patent the telephone, an "apparatus for transmitting vocal or other sounds telegraphically", 16 years after Antonio Meucci, who did not have sufficient funds to file a patent, demonstrated his "teletrofono" in New York in 1860.

-Wikipedia

-mcgrew

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

i knew some idiot was going to bring this debate up. Bell invented the phone... debate done.

Re:Hang on...

[greyworld]

Not sure about the Columbus one, many people would disagree. But it doesnt much interest me. However, The Bell/Meucci thing does - as the post after your rather silly one says, its not that clear - Last week I was at Ericcson in Stockholm, and they showed me their first handsets, based on the work of Meucci..

Re:Hang on...

[Rogerborg]

Sigh. Given that Meucci actually used his invention on a daily basis to speak with his wife, and demonstrated it in public six years before Bell got his patent, I think that's pretty much the dumbest fucking claim I've seen on Slashdot in years - and you're up against some stiff competition.

Re:Hang on...

[Polysick]

Sigh. Given that Meucci actually used his invention on a daily basis to speak with his wife, and demonstrated it in public six years before Bell got his patent, I think that's pretty much the dumbest fucking claim I've seen on Slashdot in years - and you're up against some stiff competition. I'm just using information from wikipedia here:

10 March 1876--The first successful telephone transmission of clear speech when Bell spoke into his device, "Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you." and Watson heard each word distinctly. don't hate if I'm just a victim of misinformation.

Re:Hang on...

[palegray.net]

Bell was first to the patent office, which in retrospect, is all that really mattered. Draw your own conclusions in the "lessons learned" department...

Re:Hang on...

[rishistar]

Bell was second to the patent office. The US Congress Resolution that gives Antonio Meucci credit for the invention is based upon that fact. He couldn't afford the full patent - but he filed his first patent caveat (notice of intention to take out a patent) in 1871, 5 years before Bells (or the other claimant to the invention, Gray) filed the same idea. No slashdot crowd helping the little guy out in those days.

Re:Hang on...

[palegray.net]

I stand informed :). Thank you for the info, trotting off to Wikipedia now to learn more. I routinely amaze myself with how much I don't know about history.

Re:Hang on...

[crankyspice]

Bell did not invent the telephone. It was Antonio Meucci!

Are you sure? I've read a bit of the caselaw from that time (UNITED STATES v. BELL TELEPHONE CO., 128 U.S. 315 (1888), etc), which looked at Meucci's work as well as Bell's, and I don't believe anyone had fully connected the dots before Bell did. Now, I wasn't there, obviously, but panels of learned jurists were, and heard the evidence presented by all sides...

The experiments and invention of one Antonio Meucci, relating to the transmission of speech by an electrical apparatus, for which invention a caveat was filed in the United States patentoffice, December 28,1871, renewed in December, 1882, and again in December, 1883, do not contain any such elements of an electric speaking telephone as would give the same priority over or interfere with the said Bell patent. American Bell Telephone Co. v. Globe Telephone Co., 31 Fed. 728-735 (S.D.N.Y., 1887)

Re:Hang on...

[bcattwoo]

Don't feel bad. Curiously, the author of the page he links to argues against what the GPP is claiming (Did you read it?). Whereas the GPP claims that that page says Meucci used his invention to "speak" with his wife it merely states he set up a "rudimentary communications link" to her bedroom. A telegraph would fit that bill as well so the GPP should really come up with something a little stronger.

Re:Hang on...

[gooman]

Wait...

There's a New Mexico?

Re:Hang on...

[multiferroic]

Antonio Meucci and Johann Philipp Reis were both before Alexander Graham Bell.

Re:Hang on...

[Anonymous Coward]

> Last week I was at Ericcson in Stockholm,

Cool. Are they at all realted to Ericsson?

Re:Hang on...

[RealGrouchy]

Just because he wasn't the first to do so doesn't mean that he didn't do it.

- RG>

Re:Hang on...

[confusednoise]

New Mexico. Cleaner than old Mexico!

- NM resident

Re:Hang on...

[Lost Engineer]

Columbus was the first European in a long, long time to make it the mainland of America and come back to report his findings. Therefore he discovered America. I know you said you're not interested, but maybe someone else is. Who knows what they teach kids in school these days.

That's how I switched

[NetDanzr]

When I moved to Atlanta in summer of 2004, it was the lack of pay phones in Midtown that finally made me purchase a cell phone. Had there been easily accessible pay phones in the city, I would most likely still rely on them. I wonder whether we'll see a significant increase in cell phone subscription now, or whether there aren't enough crazy luddites like me left anymore.

Re:That's how I switched

[gardyloo]

When I moved to Atlanta in summer of 2004, it was the lack of pay phones in Midtown that finally made me purchase a cell phone. [...] I wonder whether we'll see a significant increase in cell phone subscription now, or whether there aren't enough crazy luddites like me left anymore. You mean you were a crazy luddite ~3 years ago. It's a lot more difficult now, believe me. It's almost a personal hair-shirt thing by this point. And yet people still say to me, "You don't have a cell phone? You're so lucky!".

Re:That's how I switched

[MBGMorden]

The significant increase in cell phone subscriptions happened years ago, and it the direct cause of this move by AT&T. If the remaining luddites weren't a sufficiently large group to keep the payphones active, I'd guess that they're not large enough to generate any real spike in cell usage :).

Personally, I'd love to see pay phones hang around, just because I live in a rural area and my phone just doesn't always work (or if the battery goes dead then I'm SOL anyways). Still, I must say that the last time I used a pay phone was probably 5 or more years ago. I can't blame them for pulling the cords at this point.

Re:That's how I switched

[SvnLyrBrto]

> You mean you were a crazy luddite ~3 years ago. It's a lot more difficult now,
> believe me. It's almost a personal hair-shirt thing by this point. And yet people
> still say to me, "You don't have a cell phone? You're so lucky!".

Obviously, those people have not mastered the fine art of ignoring the thing when it would be inappropriate for them to take a call... or when they just don't feel like it... or whatever.

I got some STRANGE looks, a couple of weeks ago, from some co-workers when we were out for lunch a couple of weeks ago. (I'm the new guy in the office.) My phone rang, I pulled it out of my pocket oh so very briefly, silenced it, put it away without even looking to see who was calling, and went on with lunch. The looks were not with annoyance at my having forgotten to put it on vibrate in the first place. They were with confusion that I did not treat a ringing cell-phone as a moral imperative to drop everything, no matter when or where I am or what I'm doing, and take the call.

Even some people who know me better are sometimes shocked. But my celly is for *MY* convenience, and no one else's. And if it's not convenient for me to take the call... well that's what voicemail and text messages are for. And I'll check and respond to them at my convenience. Honestly, *I* don't understand all the people who think or act otherwise with their mobiles.

cya,
john

wireless access points any one?

[Anonymous Coward]

keep the phone add dsl to the line and a wifi connection - good to go.

911!

[smartaleckkill]

emergency calls?

Re:911!

[Wolvie MkM]

All cell phones in the US (maybe Canada I don't know) activated or not have to be able to call out to 911.

Hope that's what you were looking for

Took them long enough.

[cyberworm]

It's about phreaking time.

Re:Took them long enough.

[wiz31337]

I can't believe you didn't get modded funny, you get a +1 funny in my book.

Re:Took them long enough.

[michrech]

Ha.. I see what you did there. Good one on you, sir!

It's about phreaking time.

Not a real big issue,

[The Analog Kid]

I find that most of the pay phone I've seen in and around my area, are either defaced with either gum or other crap, missing the handset all together, or broken (with the phone intact). With the advent of cells phones, becoming a necessity these days, do pay phones really much matter? I think not.

Re:Not a real big issue,

[FranTaylor]

That's because the phone company has decided to give up on them. The phone company used to be pretty good about fixing broken phones, not any more. When they stop maintaining enough pay phones, they can manipulate people like you into thinking that we don't need them any more.

Good luck with your GSM phone in Northern New England.

turning over to independent operators, that is.

[mgoren]

At least according to AT&T, the phones aren't just going to disappear. What the article says is that AT&T is getting out of the pay phone business, turning some or all of their phones over to independent operators.

Re:turning over to independent operators, that is.

[Midnight Thunder]

At least according to AT&T, the phones aren't just going to disappear. What the article says is that AT&T is getting out of the pay phone business, turning some or all of their phones over to independent operators.

The phones are feasable for them and they would rather concentrate on where the money is. Nothing is stopping your local convenience store from installing one, and the advantage there is that at least you have greater chances of having them work, since they are less likely to defaced or vandalised.

Re:turning over to independent operators, that is.

[fm6]

In other words, Zonk strikes again!

Re:turning over to independent operators, that is.

[MyNymWasTaken]

What are you doing actually reading, and comprehending, the article?

This. Is. Slashdot!

Because revenue is declining, or because...

[Nexus7]

Or is it because it is harder for them to eagerly hand over the identities of the callers to the concerned and not-so-concerned officials?

Re:Because revenue is declining, or because...

[BlowHole666]

Take off the tin foil hat man. They are not going to take down every pay phone they are going to let other companies use them. If you bothered to RTFA.

AT&T said that it will continue to sell wholesale pay-phone service to independent operators, and it expects them to pick up some of its business. So please try not to stir up slashdot with the whole "the government is out to get me". This is a business decision. So if in a few years Walmart were to notice that the number of cash transactions drops to close to 0 so they reduce the number of cash lanes to 1 and the rest are credit only, will you say that walmart is just trying to hand the government the identities of its customers?

Re:Because revenue is declining, or because...

[sexconker]

If you had bothered to walk outside in the past decade, you would know that the number of pay phones IS dramatically decreasing.

I went to Alaska this summer.
The most amazing thing I saw was a bank of functional pay phones.

Re:Because revenue is declining, or because...

[BlowHole666]

Yes they are declining, but could that be because people are opting to use cell phones rather then going to find a pay phone. You know new business model. Sort of like the RIAA... People don't care for as many CD's so people would rather just download the music. Now swap out CD's for pay phones, and Download the music for a cell phone. The thing is At&t gets that its business model is changing and the RIAA does not.

I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[MSBob]

The British Telecom phone booths look really nice not to mention all the handy hooker ads inside :-)

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[rwyoder]

The British Telecom phone booths look really nice not to mention all the handy hooker ads inside :-

Not to mention the problems it would create for Doctor Who.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Joe Jay Bee]

This is pedantry 2 DA MAX, but Dr Who uses a police box (which have already been phased out) not a phone box.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Sponge Bath]

Doctor Who and the Handy Hooker... was that one of the Tom Baker episodes?

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a police box outside Earl's Court station, on Earl's Court Road, London.

I don't know why, and I've never seen a policeman in it (is that what they're for? I'm too young to know), but this morning when I walked past the lights were on. It was repainted in the summer.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[ross.w]

Obviously not far from Rose Tyler's house then...

When it's not there anymore, you'll know why.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Von Helmet]

There are still a few old ones kicking around. I've seen one at the entrance of the car park at Bradgate Park in Leicestershire, in England. It's not very Tardis like, but it's a police box nonetheless. This page has a picture of it at the bottom of the page, along with various others around the country.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Anonymous Coward]

And he's called the Doctor, not "Dr. Who".

Bloody yanks.

Re:I hope BT doesn't follow suit

[Joe Jay Bee]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm a Brit.

(Albeit one that doesn't watch Dr Who.)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Profit != Bad

[p0tat03]

People are treating ATT like the scum of the Earth here, which they may be in their mobile business, but I can't see why expecting to break even is such an evil goal.

Pay phones here in Canada are up to $1 a call now, ridiculous, when it was a quarter merely a few years before. The downturn in usage means increased cost per call for the few people that still use them, which drives a cycle that forces everyone to get some sort of cell phone.

Both my brother (an academic) and my mother have pay-as-you-go plans, which cost them about $120 a year. That's really not too bad, considering they're light users. They enjoy the convenience of a cell phone, and also the security from being able to call emergency services wherever they may be, as opposed to having to locate the nearest (dwindling number) payphones.

I simply do not see pay phones as having any further use to our society. They were important pieces of technology from a bygone era, that's all.

Re:Profit != Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Pay phones here in Canada are up to $1 a call now, ridiculous, when it was a quarter merely a few years before.

$1? Where do you live? For payphones regulated by the CRTC (ie the incumbent local carrier, Bell Canada in Ontario & Quebec, Telus in BC & Alberta, etc), payphones are 50 cents max.

Or is this one of those no-name payphones?

Re:Profit != Bad

[FranTaylor]

30 miles north of here, GSM (AT&T!) phones won't work. No coverage at all. If you have car troubles, start walking. With no pay phones, you're gonna walk a LONG way. This is New Hampshire I'm talking about, not some remote jungle.

You can call pay phones dead when there is universal cell phone coverage. Check out the cell coverage maps available on the Internet and you will see that large parts of the populated earth have no coverage at all.

Re:Profit != Bad

[tompaulco]

Pay phones here in Canada are up to $1 a call now,
I remember when an unlimited call to the local area could be had for a nickel. I think it is 35 cents now.
Of course, according to song lyrics and Hollywood, a pay phone only costs a dime.

Re:Profit != Bad

[p0tat03]

This was a payphone at Union Station in downtown Toronto. I have no idea which one it is - only that my brother (before he got his cell) tried to call me, but only brought 50c in cash, and thus had to run about, buy random crap, just to make change.

Re:Profit != Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

"I simply do not see pay phones as having any further use to our society."

Then I guess you clearly aren't: a) homeless (or just poor), b) recently mugged and beaten and need help (they took the cell phone), c) broken down in the bad part of town after your phone's battery died, d) witnessing a crime and want to report it but remain anonymous, or e) someone who simply doesn't want or feel you need a cell phone (we may be a minority, but there are still a surprisingly large number of us out there -- and not just old farts and luddites; I'm a 35-year-old software developer with no interest in getting a cell phone).

Re:Profit != Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

But do they make 500 calls a year.
Sounds like getting the shaft to me.

Re:Profit != Bad

[p0tat03]

At 50c a call, that's 240 calls a year to "break even", but of course that's not a valid comparison. A cell phone you have wherever you go, removing the need to hunt aimlessly around a building for one (which is made even more difficult by the fact that they're disappearing gradually). It also permits you to RECEIVE calls, not just make them. Not to mention things like text messages and voicemail that come in very useful - you can't very well leave a message for someone on a payphone.

How much all of the above is worth varies from person to person, but the general consensus within my family is that $120 a year is quite a reasonable price to have a viable line of emergency (or semi-emergency) contact, and also for the occasional convenience sake.

Re:Profit != Bad

[Mr. Underbridge]

None of that is AT&T's problem.

+1 GP

[brunes69]

Every year that passes it gets more and more difficult to communicate without being monitored.

Re:+1 GP

[hobo sapiens]

What, you think it's impossible for "them" to put cameras up near pay phones? In other words, if someone wants to monitor you, it's already a done deal. Don't kid yourself into thinking that someone cannot find out who used a payphone to make a certain call. With enough resources (and I'd bet AT&T and the NSA have it) you cannot be anonymous. Do you really think those payphones at airports aren't monitored closely?

I dunno, I think getting rid of payphones isn't so bad. If there's a market for them, someone else can provide the service. I really think the market is drying up. Why should any company go to an expense to meet the demands of something there is little to no market for? Doesn't make any sense.

Re:+1 GP

[brunes69]

And if I am wearing a mask and gloves when I use said pay phone?

Re:+1 GP

[Bill_the_Engineer]

What, you think it's impossible for "them" to put cameras up near pay phones? In other words, if someone wants to monitor you, it's already a done deal. Don't kid yourself into thinking that someone cannot find out who used a payphone to make a certain call. With enough resources (and I'd bet AT&T and the NSA have it) you cannot be anonymous. Do you really think those payphones at airports aren't monitored closely?

The real question:

Is my using a pay phone really worth the time and expense for At&T or NSA to figure out who I am?

Pay phones make it more expensive for whoever would like to track you, using a cellphone makes it easy and cheap for them.

Re:+1 GP

[hobo sapiens]

Voice Print.

Not that these things would be used against a person just for reporting a crime, but the potential is there.

Me, I use a cell phone to file complaints with the police department. Yes, I have become *that* guy who doesn't hesitate to call the cops. Being a homeowner with an apartment building with redneck tenants across the street turns you into a dime-dropper real quick, and I am getting too old to be a hero. Get drunk and start fighting at 3AM and wake me up, then I am calling the cops. I know my cell phone can be traced, and there are sunshine laws that enable someone who is really determined to find out who filed the report. But the rednecks across the street aren't nearly smart enough and don't have the resources to track me down anyhow.

Using a cell phone and remaining anonymous is safe. If you are scared of that, you have to follow a certain path of logic that involves collusion between the police dept and the person committing the crime. You'd have to be pretty paranoid to follow that path, unless you have some organized crime stuff going on.

But if you want to be realistic, then you have to realize that *any* form of electronic communication can be tracked and traced. Pay phone, cell phone, anything. Don't like that? Then stay off the grid

Re:+1 GP

[hobo sapiens]

You are absolutely correct. I knew someone would say that, because it's what I would have said.

However...

If someone wants to track you, regardless of what means you used to file a report, some work is going to need to be done. That eliminates the petty criminals right off. The guy breaking into a car at night isn't smart enough and doesn't have the resources to find you. If he is, then he finds out who submitted the police report (which means he has to make an assumption that someone reported him and that the police didn't just catch him in the act.) Now, many municipalities have sunshine laws, which means that he can see who reported what. IIRC, if you report a crime anonymously, then the sunshine laws cannot bypass that and your phone number and name cannot be revealed. So, unless some ill-advised law actually allows him to find out the number that an anonymous report was filed from (and I would be shocked if such a law existed, since this would be a pretty effective deterrent to anyone reporting anything), then you've gotta assume that some sort of conspiracy existed between the criminal and the law enforcement agency. For petty criminals, that's a tall order and a big stretch.

Therefore, for most complaints, making a report anonymously is safe regardless of the means used. For reporting crimes committed by more well connected individuals (organized crime), well, you're a fool to use *anything* traceable. So unless you see the mob knock off a star witness in a murder case (too much TV, I know :) ) or something equally grandiose, then report the crime. Make it anonymous. You'll be fine.

Re:+1 GP

[MMC Monster]

+1 Tinfoil hat.

Yes, the phone companies can use voiceprint ID on every call and track people accordingly. Yes, they can put up cameras by every pay phone and get photo IDs of everyone that uses their machine. Yes, they can put fingerprint scanners in every payphone and scan coins for fingerprints as well, to correlate with voice prints and photo IDs.

At some point they're going to say it's not worth the expense. (They are a publically traded company, right?) Even if the NSA, FBI, and CIA are paying them per-call.

Re:+1 GP

[brunes69]

You can't use a voice print unless you have an existing voice print to compare it to. Even then it is very inexact.

And if you think the police department is the only person who can get a-hold of cell phone records, you are seriously deluding yourself. Anyone can get a-hold of phone records, do some searches on pretexting.

I would never use my cell to call in a violent crime while in visible distance from the perpetrator, it is like signing a death warrant if the perpetrator is not a complete moron.

Re:+1 GP

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Therefore, for most complaints, making a report anonymously is safe regardless of the means used.

Unless the District Attorney really needs your eye witness testimony.

I may be entirely mistaken, but if the DA can force you to testify (using a subpoena) isn't your identity available to the defense attorney regardless how well the criminal is connected?

Re:+1 GP

[morgan_greywolf]

I dunno, I think getting rid of payphones isn't so bad. If there's a market for them, someone else can provide the service. I really think the market is drying up. Why should any company go to an expense to meet the demands of something there is little to no market for? Doesn't make any sense. Agreed. Try this excercise. Drive or walk to the nearest outdoor payphone and use it. For every point below that you answer 'yes', add 10 points:

• Does it even work?
• Is the phone in good repair?
  
• Is the phone clean?
• Does it work properly? (i.e., can you hear well enough and can the other party here you).
• Is it owned and operated by the local incumbent telco, or some 3rd party? (federal law requires it to be posted on the phone) (give yourself 10 points if owned by the ILEC). Subtract 20 points if you've never heard of the company that owns and/or operates the phone.
• Does it cost less than $1 to make a local call?
• Did you have to travel more than a mile to find it? For every half-mile over 1 mile you had to travel, subtract 5 points from your overall score.
• 
  
  If you're score is much higher than 10-20 points, I'd be pretty surprised.
  
  

Re:+1 GP

[Anonymous Coward]

> Is the phone clean?

What planet are you living on? >:)

Everyone knows that life evolved from a primordial payphone handset.

Re:+1 GP

[xaxa]

My secondary school was in the middle of a large UK city. Back when the IRA was a threat (bombing buildings etc, mid '90s) someone at my school thought it'd be a great idea to skip a lesson, and used a nearby phone to call 999 and tell the police there was a bomb at the school. Of course, they evacuated the school (and a decent area of the city around it), found that there wasn't a bomb... and then arrested the person who made the call, having captured them on CCTV making the call.

In an area more remote than 100 metres from the main shopping street in a major city they'd probably have been OK, especially 10 years ago, but I'd be amazed if 999 calls aren't recorded.

About a year ago I called the police and told them that a security van (the ones with "The driver does not have access to this van" and safes inside) was empty outside a bank I'd walked past with a recording playing: "This van is under attack! Please call the police!". I used my mobile and the operator asked me if he could take my name. I expect that was just him being nice.

Re:+1 GP

[Anonymous Coward]

Then you're probably the one committing the crime. Do you always walk around wearing a mask and gloves?

Re:+1 GP

[nospam007]

What, you think it's impossible for "them" to put cameras up near pay phones? In other words, if someone wants to monitor you, it's already a done deal. Don't kid yourself into thinking that someone cannot find out who used a payphone to make a certain call. With enough resources (and I'd bet AT&T and the NSA have it) you cannot be anonymous. Do you really think those payphones at airports aren't monitored closely?
___

Really? Dammit!
Clark Kent

I guess there will be no sequel to Phonebooth

[denis-The-menace]

http://imdb.com/find?s=all&q=Phonebooth&x=0&y=0

Re:I guess there will be no sequel to Phonebooth

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's a GOOD thing.

what about

[axxaxxo]

the public telephone sanitizers? Time to start looking for a new job I guess...

Re:what about

[$RANDOMLUSER]

"Oh, you're all a lot of useless idiots!"

"Oh yes! That was the reason!"

Oh, come along now!

[PHAEDRU5]

When I lead with a Lebowski quote, are you really expecting deep thought?

That said, this is a momentous, well, moment. (BTW, that's an indirect Austin Powers reference.)

(Thanks for killing the joke.)

Payphones became worthless when...

[dave562]

...they muted the speaker so the red box wouldn't work anymore.

Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[rossdee]

I remember when they were 2 cents for local calls

(we were so poor we didn't have a car, or a TV or a phone...)

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[omeomi]

I remember when you just had to push some buttons on a little box that you bought from that guy who always wore a trench coat, and the calls were free ;-)

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[barefoothannibal]

I remember when cereal boxes would come with a whistle that would give you free calls, now THAT was a prize!

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[Anonymous Coward]

Granted the whole pay phone phreaking thing was before my time, but I've always wondered about it. You have a bunch of anti-social geeks learning how to make free phone calls. Great, who on earth would call? They're anti-social geeks?

or were they more social back then? What happened when The cool tricks stopped working? Did they have to admit to their telephone girl friends that they couldn't call them as often because their whistles stopped working? Don't get me wrong, from a purely technical thing it makes a ton of sense trying to figure out how the system works and everything. But from a practical sense, having to travel to a payphone to talk and having a real need to do it on a regular basis it doesn't make as much sense.

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[Digz]

I remember when a paperclip inserted between the metal cord and the microphone and shorted at just the right time did the same thing.. Now that was a bargain..

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[petermgreen]

I think many geeks just don't fit in very well in normal society because they don't care about the same things normal people do and this is often percieved as being anti-social. Let them communicate with each other though and you see a very different situation.

HAM radio had a high startup cost, anything that used the phone system legitimately had a high operationg cost.

Afaict phone phreaking while illegal had low start up and operating costs (just the cost of getting to/from the payphone) so appealed to the younger/poorer section of geeks.

Now the internet has made communication nearly free communities can form over a very diverse area even among people with relatively little money without having to turn to illegal means.

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[bvimo]

Did that ever work? It worked in a film - Wargames, but what about in real life?

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[anticypher]

Did that ever work? It worked in a film - Wargames, but what about in real life?

Yeah, it worked. I hated when War Games came out, because it spoiled a little known trick. A trick I, um, read about in a technical journal or somewhere.

Pay phones on the old Ma Bell network (at least up through the 4ESS switch series installed to the end of the '70s) used a signaling method known as ground start to signal when coins had passed the counter. Being as the phones were mostly armored, as well as the first few feet of wiring, there were two methods for faking a ground start signal, either find a place where you could get to ring&tip on the wires (which might not have a ground readily available), or by poking a needle into the mouthpiece and shorting it to the chassis of the phone. A sharpened paper clip was the favored innocuous tool of phreaks in the '70s.

the AC

Re:Just putting in my 2 cents worth

[The Breeze]

It was even cheaper to just buy some Captain Crunch cereal, get the little whistle out of the package, stick a lil' bit o' wood in the middle of it and blow a nice 2600hz tone.

Presumably

[Colin Smith]

One could buy all the payphones, stick a wireless access point in them and an ADSL port on the other end of the line.

Hmmmm... With the dollar going off the cliff I might just be able to afford it.

Re:Presumably

[lobStar]

Telia in Sweden is doing this right now. Too bad there hardly arent any left. And also it's kinda pointless with outdoor wifi in our climate, at least 6 months a year.

Re:Presumably

[xaxa]

That's what BT have done in the UK -- they then stick a big ad on the side "WiFi Zone" or something. They've put small computers in some (in nicer areas) which you can use to surf the web or read email. It was free for a while, I used to read Slashdot on the way home from school with a friend...

The other option seems to be to put a cash machine (ATM) in the space.

Re:Presumably

[Nevermine]

It's already being done by Telia Sonera, here's a link.

Even Worse...

[tritonman]

Even worse, where are pranksters supposed to phone in bomb threats from? You can't do it from your cell phone, they will find you right away. OMG IT'S BIG BROTHER'S DOING!

Worse yet how will car run down trapped victims

[gmezero]

Sigh... yet another classic movie cliche goes the way of the DoDo.

Re:Worse yet how will car run down trapped victims

[elyk]

or, one might now say, the way of the time lady.

Re:Worse yet how will car run down trapped victims

[afxgrin]

It'll come back in a future cyberpunk sort of way.... the EM spectrum will have too much interference to be useful.

[Mr.Radar has just been "jammed".] There's only one man who would dare give me the raspberry: [pulls down helmet as camera zooms in on his face] LONE STARR! [camera slams into his face and knocks him out]

Interesting

[WhiteWolf666]

AT&T continues to maintain it's Telephone Lease Program, but no longer maintains pay phones.

How absurd. Did I mention I hate those bastards? I decided to give them a try, especially given their "30-day money back guarantee". I'd heard they had improved, they were a new company, my slashdot posting history aside. I found out two days later that I would be getting the same, standard 6/768 DSL they give everyone, not some new 8meg/2meg package the sales rep sold me on.

Cancelled immediately. AT&T issued a bill for $100. Settled for $50. For 3 days of service, even with a "money back guarantee".

So much for giving them a second chance. I'll never, ever, ever, ever do business with AT&T again. For any reason. To the end of my days. Those bastards will never, ever change.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Moonbat alert

Re:Interesting

[ByteofK]

Amen to that!

I was a customer of AT&T when they were a cable company (which they do their best to distance themselves from now) and they provided the @Home service. @Home went bust, leaving us without service for a couple of weeks, so we switched to DSL.

Then we moved to an area with a different phone provider, and tried "the new AT&T" formerly SBC. They botched the installation, and after selling me a $11/month service billed me $25 per month including "fees". After months of complaining about this I talked them out of a single penny for phone service, leaving just the DSL charges on the bill. They then offered to credit the entire bill which they did to the wrong account - somehow we had 2 accounts active, no idea how we got the other one. So they sent us a check for $148 which we cashed, while still demanding payment for the $148 debt. A year later they have not been paid.

Needless to say when I was looking for a new cellphone company I did not even half consider "the new AT&T". It's the same old behemoth. It's time David shot down Goliath. Who's got the slingshot?

Re:Interesting

[tompaulco]

When I moved about five years back, I selected AT&T as my long distance provider as I had had no particular problems with them in the past. I talked to a nice representative who sold me a 7 cent per minute plan with no monthly fee and a long distance plan for $4 a month with reduced rates of 18 cents a minute so my wife could call South Korea. Lo and behold, the first bill is for over $400. I called AT&T and they explained that there was not plan on the account so they defaulted to standard rates. I told them that their representative had sold me a plan. They said that the plan that I had been sold was not available in my area. I told them too bad, that is what I was sold, and they said, yes, too bad for you. They are not responsible if their employee who they pay and train sold me a plan that was not available in my area. That is MY problem. I told them that I would pay them only what I owed them according to the plan I had been sold. They told me that would be fine and but if I did not pay the remainder of the balance within 30 days that they would cancel my account and refer it to collections. They refused to take responsibility for their error and the best they could finally offer me was to discount the bill to what WAS available in my area, which was something like 15 cents a minute for a couple dollars monthly fee, and the rate to Korea was about 35 cents.
My father worked for AT&T Bell Labs and then Lucent for 35+ years (and was ultimately also screwed by them as well). I will never do business with them again.

creators to disempower unprecedented evile

[Anonymous Coward]

none too soon for many of US. imagine an end to the scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys propoganda being spewed forth by the corepirate nazi execrable 24/7 on all of yOUR 'mainstream' media?

no gadgets required. no payper liesense hostage agreedment. see you there?

meanwhile: unprecedented evile never sleeps

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/02/AR2007120201637.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

however, its task becomes less daunting when its minions are at 'work', emptying yOUR pockets.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/03/us.debt.ap/index.html

micro management of populations has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster.

we're intending (do not underestimate the power of intentions) for the corepirate nazis to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather'.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying [google.com]

the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption.

fortunately there's an 'army' of angels, coming yOUR way

do not be afraid/dismayed, it is the way it was meant to be.

the little ones/innocents must/will be protected.

after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit?

for each of the creators' innocents harmed (in any way), there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available.

beware the illusionary smoke&mirrors.con

all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven.

no need to fret (unless you're associated/joined at the hype with, unprecedented evile), it's all just a part of the creators' wwwildly popular, newclear powered, planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

or, is it (literally) ground hog (as in dead meat) day, again? many of US are obviously not aware of how we appear (which is whoreabull) from the other side of the 'lens', or even from across the oceans.

vote with (what's left in) yOUR wallet. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable.

we still haven't read (here) about the 2/3'rds of you kids who are investigating/pursuing a spiritual/conscience/concious re-awakening, in amongst the 'stuff that matters'? another big surprise?

some of US should consider ourselves very fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate.

it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc....

as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis.

concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order.

'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

This cell-phone reserved for Clark Kent

[Nimey]

doesn't have the same ring as "this phone boot reserved for Clark Kent".

+1, Trout

[pavon]

Where are the mods when you need them?

Or those...

[gillbates]

Who choose not to have a cellphone because they:

1. Don't like the ability of the government to track their whereabouts, or
2. Don't want to enable the government to surrepititiously monitor their conversations, even when they're not talking on the phone.
3. Don't feel like being part of the my-employer/wife/etc-has-me-on-a-leash culture.

I only reluctantly got a cellphone a few years ago. AFAIC, they're as close to a travesty as one can get; they've got more computing power than a PC did a decade ago, but are even less usable than the GI Joe walkie talkies I played with as a child. (I believe the audio was clearer.)

Re:Or those...

[joss]

Quite.

Amongst the better informed, not having a cell phone
is definitely a status symbol [at least in Europe where
they've been cheap for longer than in US]

Not owning a cell phone is a far clearer symbol of independence
and freedom than owning an assault rifle or a Harley Davidson.

You always hear the argument that you can turn it off when you like
or only use it for outgoing calls, but in practice people don't
so just say no.

Re:Or those...

[SL Baur]

Amongst the better informed, not having a cell phone
is definitely a status symbol Whatever. Cell phones are better than paying the exorbitant NTT license fee for the privilege of paying for a landline, or PLDT if landline coverage is available at all (it isn't in most of Mindanao) since SMS text messages only cost 1 peso. They're valuable for meeting people in large public places like train stations and international airports.

I have the same kind of bias you have - I lived in Japan for four years and everywhere else is 3rd world compared to the kind of technology available there. I am kind of ashamed of the AT&T/Cingular garbage I carry around, but it's better than Nokia.

Re:Or those...

[Isaac-Lew]

1. Power the cellphone off.

2. Power the cellphone off.

3. Power the cellphone off.

See how difficult that was?

As far as call quality - ask your family and/or friends that have cellphones about their experiences, & purchase accordingly.

Re:Or those...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you feel "leashed" to your spouse, it's time to rethink your marriage.

Re:Or those...

[gillbates]

The technical problem is that you have to take out the battery to turn the phone completely off.

The social problem is why would you bother to carry a phone if you don't intend to receive calls? Sure, I suppose you can always replace the battery to make an outgoing call, but then you've reintroduced points 1 and 2. And number 3 will chide you for not answering your phone.

Re:Or those...

[macshit]

Cell phones are better than paying the exorbitant NTT license fee for the privilege of paying for a landline,

That seems to be gone nowdays, BTW. [I recently got a new landline from NTT and they charged no fees other than some random small "installation" type things.]

I live in Japan and don't have a cellphone -- I don't make all that many calls, and to be honest, find the whole Japanese cellphone culture kind of disgusting.

It's definitely handy to have one in certain situations (especially for meeting people), but whatever, I seem to manage OK without.

Re:Or those...

[SL Baur]

I recently got a new landline from NTT and they charged no fees other ... Wow. They were talking for years about eliminating the license fee and doing nothing instead. Once you get beyond the license fee, landlines become most competitive in price.

I don't make all that many calls, and to be honest, find the whole Japanese cellphone culture kind of disgusting. I suppose that's one way of looking at it. When I lived in Tokyo, my apartment was between a women's university and the train station and I regularly had to dodge young women who were riding bicycles to/from campus and talking on cell phones and smoking (and being university students I suppose more than a few of those were also drunk).

I recall one evening when I was at a trendy Izakaya in Shinjuku with a friend and across from us were two young ladies sitting together both carrying on apparently animated cell phone conversations. My friend turned to me and said, "sad, isn't it?"

Still, I miss my (Power|Mega|Hyper) Carrot ...

It's definitely handy to have one in certain situations (especially for meeting people), but whatever, I seem to manage OK without. Early in my stay there I tried to meet someone in Tokyo Eki (my first time there and we had never met in meat space before) using only a pay phone and ... when I returned with a working visa the first thing I bought was a cell phone for meeting people. The PHS *Carrots were awesome toys too...

I don't make that many calls either, but, I move a lot (between countries), I lived for 3 years in a jungle with cell coverage but no landlines and US landlines don't support SMS text messaging which is a feature I ^H^Hmy wife requires me to have. Different usage patterns.

I have an ancient Western Electric special that was manufactured when they still made real phones - it has the "Property of AT&T/Not for sale" stamped on the bottom that I bought when they were firesaling off the inventory after the break up. Metal casing, tank-solid handset, touchtone ... I think I stole it because it only cost something like $10 or $15. When they pry my Western Electric special from my cold, dead hands it will still be working like a champ.

Speaking of pay phones though, are they still using 10 yen coins? I read in the last week or so that taxi fares were raised in Kanegawa and Tokyo, which I found rather shocking.

Re:Or those...

[Cro Magnon]

Regarding #3. I got my cellphone for MY convienience. My boss doesn't have my cellphone number, and my GF knows that I'll call her back when I have the chance, which might be some time after she left her message. You can have a cellphone without being on anyone's leash.

Didn't you see the movie?

[Tetsujin]

Now where is Superman supposed to change? Superman has been dealing with this problem since 1978 at least... Remember? He tried to change at the payphone, but found that it didn't have a full booth around it... So he came up with other places to change, like in the revolving door, and in mid-air after jumping out the window, etc...

Re:Didn't you see the movie?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=60.398736,5.320148&spn=0.001165,0.003369&t=h&z=19&om=1

That red blob in the middle is a phone box. A bright red British phone box. In Norway.

Wow!

[sirgoran]

What about all those movie story lines where they show them on a pay-phone or in a phone booth?
Talk about an end of an era!
It was bad enough when Superman lost his changing room, but now to have lost them all together...
Now where are people going to steal phone book pages from?!

It truly is a sad day indeed.

-Goran

Re:Wow!

[SCHecklerX]

Yeah. And how am I going to get out of the matrix now?

As goes AT&T so goes the world...

[jpellino]

What's 2600 supposed to put on their back cover now?

Re:As goes AT&T so goes the world...

[faedle]

The last two issues, actually, has had a "back cover" photo that isn't necessarily a pay phone..

Good news, everyone! Futurama was right!

[ClayJar]

With pay phones finally out of the way, there will be plenty of room for the new suicide booths!

What do we Do?

[Zashi]

I was moderating that thread but I figured I'd point out it's high time we... er... repurpose all those payphones before they're thrown away. Perhaps we'll be seeing more payphones on ebay?

(C'mon, who doesn't want a pay phone to hack around with?)

Re:What do we Do?

[Anonymous Psychopath]

That was my first thought when I saw the title. I can't think of what I want to do with one, but I know I want to do something.

You don't understand the word 'need'.

[FatSean]

Most Americans don't, which is why they carry so much debt and the economy is shitting the bed.

Re:You don't understand the word 'need'.

[Colin Smith]

Economic conditions drive behaviour. Americans carry so much debt because

1: Virtually all money comes from debt.
2: The US dollar is the world reserve currency which makes everything cheap to Americans.

The US economy is shitting the bed because the currency is in the long slow process of losing it's reserve status.

Re:You don't understand the word 'need'.

[trytoguess]

Strange, I thought most people were in debt due to medical bills.

Re:You don't understand the word 'need'.

[Abcd1234]

Uh, wha? The idea that American's carry so much debt *because* of fractional reserve banking (#1) is flat out absurd. The economy is certainly helped by increasing levels of debt, as it spurs spending and increases the money supply. But I'm *extremely* skeptical that there's a causal relationship between consumer and corporate debt, and the banking system as it's structured. After all, most other nations work under a fractional reserve system, and you don't see the same astronomical levels of debt.

It's also ridiculous to believe that American debt is driven by low domestic prices... frankly, I don't understand where this reasoning comes from at all.

So why is there so much domestic and corporate debt? I have no idea. Relatively low interest rates over the last few years certainly haven't helped. The housing boom, which encouraged people to purchased homes they couldn't afford, combined with predatory lending practices *definitely* haven't helped. Heck, it could simply come down to cultural factors.

But the two factors you listed? I highly doubt it.

As for the US economy shitting the bed, there's many things at play, there. Debt is certainly a factor, particularly in the wake of the housing bubble collapse, which makes foreign investment in the US suddenly seem like a risky proposition (and, let's face it... it *is* a risky proposition, given recent lending practices).

Nothing to see here, move along - from TFA

[earlymon]

From TFA - AT&T is only operating pay phones in 13 states, will phase those out, hoping/expecting another firm or firms to pick up the slack.

Therefore, this already doesn't affect 37 states - whose pay phones are still working without AT&T. It didn't say America would lose payphones, it said AT&T is getting out of the business.

Nothing to see here.

AT&T says...

[Night Goat]

AT&T: "Fuck the poor."

Re:AT&T says...

[geekoid]

Really? I am sure there will still be COCOTS.

Or maybe you would just be wrong?

http://www02.sbc.com/Products_Services/Residential/1,,68--1-3-3,00.html

Re:AT&T says...

[Anonymous Coward]

Business models that market to the poor tend to do, well, poorly. You want welfare, try the nearest federal building.

Re:AT&T says...

[Anonymous Coward]

The worse your credit, the higher the minutes cost, gets even worse on prepaid accounts.
20 minute cards at 35 cents a minute vs. 500 minute cards at 10 cents a minute.

They screw the poor and the elderly, telephone insurance, renting phones, money back offers they dont support, bait and switch, false advertising.

They fuck you, and they get away with it. And you argue, it goes on your credit. (and credit companies wont remove it until lawsuits..)

Corporate America loves to fuck the little guys.

can att leave the booth?

[maxconfus]

right now, i feel like i am in the middle of a cell phone conversation since a person near me is for no uncertain reason shouting into their cell phone. is it possible for att to take the phones but leave the booths?

What if there is an emergency and you have no cell

[zymano]

phone. Alot of people wont let you use their cell phone.

Your F**Ked.

I forgot my cell phone

[UltimaL337Star]

I go to a little private college that's kind of in the middle of a more ghetto part of the city, there's always sirens going on and every few weeks there are always reports of an attempted rape or robbery, and I'm not just talking the usual bikes. We have these little emergency stations through out my campus, it's a big pole with a panic button, and I think a handset to talk to public safety. They're pretty much our pay phones that can only call 911, which is what I hope the decommissioned pay phones will still be able to do. At least then I won't feel completely fucked if I forget my cell phone off campus and some guy is running at me with wearing a ski mask or swastika and it really is nice to be able to call 911 on a landline and not have to look for the nearest street sign to pinpoint my location.

Batteries?

[Urza9814]

...So cell phones aren't that expensive, and even deactivated ones can usually still call 911. But what if the batteries die? I know I generally have to charge my phone at least twice a day. Damn thing won't last more than 8 hours on a charge. Sometimes it's as low as 5.
This sucks. Even though I have a cell, I still use pay phones fairly often.

Re:Batteries?

[scharkalvin]

Replace your battery man! (before it explodes!)

Re:Batteries?

[Urza9814]

They've been like that since the day I got the phone. It's just a piece of crap.

Re:Batteries?

[zaren]

"cell phones aren't that expensive"...

Since when is $40+ a month not as expensive as 50 cents or even a buck a call?

Not everyone NEEDS to be constantly accessible, and not everyone lives where a cell phone work. I don't have a cell phone, my wife doesn't have a cell phone, and our home sits in the middle of a dead zone - lake to the north, and crowded subdivisions all around in the other directions. No point in getting a cell phone if it can't be used where 95% of our calls originate.

Re:Batteries?

[Urza9814]

And you're replying to my comment instead of one of the many other above mine arguing that same point because...?

The point of that phrase was basically 'OK, you people seem to have decided on these two, but what about....?'

Re:Batteries?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah; there's something seriously wrong with that. My phone, a Motorola Q which is syncing with an Exchange server all day, and is a model with a notoriously poor battery life, will last at least 8 hours on the "slim" battery. It'll usually go for about 20 hours so long as I abstain from the SNES emulator.

A friend's Sony phone goes for 48 hours without much trouble.

So yeah; total piece of crap.

ive been saying it

[Anonymous Coward]

aint i been saying, i been saying for a long time

ATT is evil.

but its life.

sometimes people learn from their bad choices... others dont... this is just once case of a company over 100 years old that is still learning. and still F****** up

responsiblity

[Komaji]

I think it's their responsibility to provide public phone service for whatever reason, emergency or not. They have the resources and revenue to provide it.

Re:responsiblity

[Zenaku]

And I think it's YOUR responsibility to buy me a sandwich for lunch. You have the resources and revenue to provide it.

Re:responsiblity

[tepples]

And I think it's YOUR responsibility to buy me a sandwich for lunch. You have the resources and revenue to provide it. I don't have a contract with you. The phone company, on the other hand, has a franchise with the city.

Beeper

[hammradio]

Well, I guess I have to get rid of my beeper now?

I Feared That the Pay Phone Would Be Taken Away

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess I need to get into new tech gadgets. Basically, I really only want to know the type of phone that I can make anonymous phone calls in case I was to be wanted by the most ruthless gang of thugs on the planet: the American Authorities.

I make that comment thinking of the bad joke that I came up with the other day. Joke goes like this...

THIS MAY BE OFFENSIVE TO GANG MEMBERS OR LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR BOTH. I don't mean it to be. Ponder it.

Four wanna be, are-a be thugs are sitting around the bar, an African American, a Mexican, a Skinhead and a white guy.

The African American says, "I got the Bloods and Crips, and they got my back."

The Mexican says, "I got MS-13 and they're international, most violent, and they got my back."

The Skinhead says, "I got the skinheads." Chirp-chirp. Non of the thugs want to mess with him.

The white guy says, " I got the cops, and they got my back."

Hmmm.

It's a terrible joke. Remember Rodney King. Remember the tampered evidence at the OJ trial, and he might have done it.

The point is that fighting is wrong. Whether you're labeled as the good guy or the bad guy, it's still wrong. One of the commandments says that we are allowed to use evil to banish a greater evil. I disagree. I don't believe that I'm disagreeing with God. I strongly believe that the message from God was misinterpreted by man (Moses?).

Anyway, back to the topic of eliminating pay phones. As a fugitive, I would no longer be able to make a phone call that was untraceable to me. I'm not stupid enough to use my own cell phone so that telecoms can gladly comply with any existing law, or law in the future that makes them hand over a transcription, voice recording, date, time etc of my calls. Well, that's not true. I am stupid enough to use my cell phone, even though I know it's being monitored. I would do it because it's convenient, and I'm a white guy. Ha ha ha.

I don't know if pay phones are the last bastion of democracy, freedom and everything that is wholesum. I hope not.

Nine-eleven sparked a boom for the cell phone business. I don't care if there is a conspiracy to plug us all into the system. I just want to maintain my right, granted by God, and our Forefathers, to bring down the system when it pisses me off.

Thank you, My first time posting to /.

Now!

[atari2600]

Now where/how exactly can Neo get back to base? Or for that matter Morpheus :(

Not So Fast

[longacre]

While AT&T will be getting out of the payphone operating business, TFA explains that they will still sell service to independent operators. I think it's safe to speculate that most of the phones will be simply be sold to other operators, in place, not ripped down. It would be quite expensive to retrieve and dispose of 65,000 hunks of steel and plastic, whereas there are still companies who feel they can make money operating pay phones. Most valuable: street locations, whose back surfaces can be covered with high-profit eye-level billboards.

Re:Not So Fast

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably, independent operators = the shady guys who run inmate telephone service for prisons and mark the calls up about 1000% !

And the last time You tried a payphone:?

[gillock]

The last time I used a payphone, because my cell had run out of charge... ...someone had urinated in the booth, or close enough ...the phone book was mostly torn out ...the phone itself was not clean Who wants that?

Whats WRONG with being POOR?!?!

[Talkischeap]

"The pay as you go phones are for people who are either A) poor (obviously because they can't manage finances since they bought this)".

I'm poor due to having a rare genetic disease, and my life saving were drained by western medicines useless bullshit before my research led me to find out what my bodies problem was, and then I went to two specialists and my diagnosis was confirmed.

Now I'm poor, I don't like it, life is very difficult being poor, but I somehow get by, and now with the loss of pay phones, "pay as you go" phones are all I can afford.

So... just how is it that you can be so BLIND to other circumstances for people to be poor?

Or are you just an arrogant prick?

Re:Whats WRONG with being POOR?!?!

[plague3106]

Hmm, perhaps you should have done your research BEFORE you drained your life savings. All I can see is Darwin at work here..

kickbacks and cahoots ???

[harvey the nerd]

Read this ripoff. Lots of "profit" opportunities for companies that dump regulated pricing, say 10,000%, on top of the extra cell phone pricing power and dumping a potential subsidy.

forcing users to switch

[blitzkrieg3]

A few years ago, the phone service died at my house. They said it would take a week to repair it, so I had to buy a cell phone to get buy. To this day I wonder if the phone company had ulterior motives...

They had one use

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember using a red box with the pay phone by the student union way back in the days when I was in college.

I didn't get much use out of it because it really only worked for long distance calls, and the only people I wanted to call that were long-distance were my parents, and I didn't want them to get any blow-back if it went sour. But it was a fun experiment.

Of course, the red box's days were numbered when COCOTs started replacing real phone company pay phones.

Re:They had one use

[scharkalvin]

A friend of mine used a portable cassette recorder as a red box.
He recorded the sound made as the coins hit the phone (had someone
call him from a pay phone and drop coins in). Then he just
held the recorder to the phone and played it back. (Once once did
the operator get suspicious when she heard the tape being rewound).

Humph....

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an obvious a move by The Architect to remove those pesky hard lines from The Matrix.

They said pay phones, not the booths

[TheAxeMaster]

Those will still be in place as public urinals. They just won't have that occasional annoying ringing while you're in there now.

Just because *you're* an idiot...

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I generally have to charge my phone at least twice a day. Damn thing won't last more than 8 hours on a charge. Sometimes it's as low as 5.
This sucks. Even though I have a cell, I still use pay phones fairly often. Just because *you're* an idiot doesn't mean that we all are. My cell lasts several *days* on a charge (and that's if I use it -- well over a week if I don't use it much). You either have a whiz-bang power-hungry cell, or your battery is in dire need of replacement, but you'd rather whine about it than just get a new battery.

Frankly, if I knew someone with a cell phone who was still using pay phones (for reasons other than lack of service), I'd have serious questions about their intelligence.

Places with no Cell Coverage

[veektor]

I wonder what will happen in locations that have no cellphone coverage, such as at Phantom Ranch at the bottom of the Grand Canyon? There used to a single AT&T pay phone down there, which became exorbitantly expensive the last time I used it ($4.95 for the first minute). I suppose some third party service will pick up the slack, but the costs are sure to become even more ridiculous. It might be cheaper to carry a satellite phone!

Full Circle

[The Nipponese]

Only after World War II did the telephone become a household necessity.

And only after the 1980s did crackheads and ice fiends find a way to break them all.

most phone booths are long gone

[johnpaul191]

that 2002 movie Phone Booth was supposed the be in the last phone booth in NYC, i'm sure prop houses can stockpile them for the ever important suspension of disbelief.
then again, there will be a similar problem when horror movies eventually acknowledge that most people have cell phones. most of the classic horror movies work around the premise that you can't just call somebody and the cast has to continually walk into some sort of trap.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[gmezero]

Sure, but context is important. In 10 years you're going to have alot of kids and young adults out there who haven't what a phonebooth is, or why they would want to use one, let alone why would someone voluntarily trap themselves in a glass box like that when they could just use their cell, or borrow one from any random passers-by.

No dramatic suspense... just "what is that guy doing" moments.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[Wansu]

  Sure, but context is important. In 10 years you're going to have alot of kids and young adults out there who haven't what a phonebooth is ...

10 years? Heck. There's a kid fresh out of school in my group who's never seen one except in a movie, not the old style, fully enclosed kind. He's seen pay phones at malls and airports, one of the last bastions of such but not the old timey, freestanding phone booth. Most of those disappeared in the early 90s.

As someone who once relied on pay phones, I say good riddance. Damn pay phones were nasty as hell. The earpieces were often caked with old-man ear wax and grit. The mouthpieces often had epoxied spittle or snuff juice on 'em. It was disgusting. The whole phone booth itself was germ laden and smelled of cigarettes.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[dtobias]

Britain seems to still have fully enclosed phone booths; I saw them on the streets of London when I was there a few months ago. They often had phones that functioned as Internet terminals (but this functionality seemed to be out of order as often as not), and were plastered with ads for sex lines, escort services, strip clubs, and the like.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[BungaDunga]

Yeah, they seem to have them around still. I even saw an old-fashionedred telephone booth in a little village.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[mikael]

The classic phone boxes were bright red, then there were the "modern BT phone boxes", but the latest designs have scrolling advertising pages on the opposite side to solve the declining revenue problem.

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[galaxia26]

I still want a Police Box for my back yard...

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[leenks]

and the cast has to continually walk into some sort of trap.

Like a cellphone contract? :-)

Re:most phone booths are long gone

[croddy]

Check out The Signal in its wide release in February. I caught it at DragonCon and it was pretty enjoyable. I won't spoil it for you, but a cell phone would not exactly be a life-line for these characters.

Hospitals?

[james_orr]

What about places where you are not supposed to use a cell phone such as Hospitals?

Anti-social

[Night Goat]

In my experience, the people dubbed anti-social aren't flat out unwilling to communicate with people, they just are unwilling to communicate with MOST people. I myself am often considered anti-social, but if the conversation is dealing with something that interests me, I'm chatty as hell. Phone phreaks (and BBS users) were very into communicating with one another about techie related things.

Not just Finland

[pavon]

I have to deal with this here in the US. The apartment complex that I live in has gates at all the entrances (not on the parking lot), to improve security. Of course they do nothing of the sort - I jimmy them open almost once a month when I forget my keys while doing laundry, and the thugs that are too stupid to do this just break the gate - happens about once a year. Only one of the gates has a device to buzz someones apartment, and that is the front-facing gate that no one uses because all the parking is in the rear. Half the people that come visiting either don't have cellphones, so instead they just sit out in the lot and honk their horn until whoever it is they are waiting for comes out. All hours of the day and night.

Just because management thinks these flimsy pieces of metal decrease crime (or know that idiot customers think that) and they are too cheap to put in more call boxes. Can't wait till I get hired on permanently so I can buy a house.

So who should pay?

[QuessFan]

I am the head librarian at my library. We host two pay phones in the library. Since about 4 years ago those phone calls stopped being net revenue generators for the library. We pay about $50/month for each of them. We then get a cut once the usage goes above that.

We are going to absorb the loss for at least the next few year because we have an older user bases that expects the access, but they won't live forever. Also, as a public law library, we are not expected to turn a profit on our services.

But the phone company tech do complain about travel times between servicing the pay phones. There are less and less pay phones around, so each tech have to cover larger territories. If the only pay phones left are in public buildings like ours, then the monthly charge will increase, eventually we will have to re-consider our decision to hold on to them.

Once you dropped below certain critical mass, without the economy of scale, I don't see how the service can be sustainable in the market place without subsidies. And I don't see it coming.

Nine ways to handwave lack of cell phones

[tepples]

then again, there will be a similar problem when horror movies eventually acknowledge that most people have cell phones. most of the classic horror movies work around the premise that you can't just call somebody and the cast has to continually walk into some sort of trap. Even after Verizon starts advertising its network in the commercials preceding the film, there are plenty of handwaves that screenwriters can still use to move an idiot plot forward:

• Out of minutes on a prepaid phone
• Parent confiscated cell phone for overage on a 24-month-plan phone
• Setting the movie in plain people country
• Rural area with "no conexión" as they used to say in commercials for La Quinta Inn
• Cell phone jammer
• Foreigners with a GSM phone in a CDMA country or vice versa
• Cell phone confiscated by movie theater personnel after someone forgot to turn it off and it rang
• Cell phone confiscated by movie theater personnel for fear of using it as a camcorder
• People turned into zombies after being hypnotized by their cell phones

Re:Nine ways to handwave lack of cell phones

[Colin Smith]

Interesting one in 30 days of night. There's no real idiot plot to it.

Re:Nine ways to handwave lack of cell phones

[sherms]

Plots hell, They're just keeping me from playing Jason Bourne!!!

so much for being covert any more and plugging my suction cup 300 baud modem into a pay phone and hacking into a BBS.

Oh hell, what year is this?

Calm down

[geekoid]

The places that people would need a Pay Phone will no doubt get ont through free market. Not that the free market solves all problems, but I think this one it does.

From YOUR link, a lesson in calling people stupid

[nunyadambinness]

"Nearly every scholar agrees that Bell and Watson were the first to transmit intelligible speech by electrical means. Others transmitted a sound or a click or a buzz but our boys [Bell and Watson] were the first to transmit speech one could understand."

That's from your link buddy.

Does not reading a link that proves you are wrong, while obliviously arguing otherwise make you even more stupid then?

Yes. Yes it does.

Happening here already

[PCM2]

I challenge you to find an AT&T pay phone in my neck of the woods (San Francisco). Most of the ones I've seen recently have look-alike paint jobs, but upon close examination they're owned by some no-name operator (and priced to match).

And it happened in Europe -- and in particular, mobile phone-happy countries like Sweden and Norway -- even longer ago. Last time I found myself in need of a phone on a street in Oslo in the middle of the night, I was hard pressed to even find the type of coin the phone took. Then, when I plunked them in, it turned out to be broken.

It makes sense, if you think about it. Who wants to be in that business? People used to gripe at how expensive pinball games had become compared to video games, but if you consider how much wear and tear all the moving parts in a pinball machine get -- not to mention the abuse from being pushed, pulled, shoved, kicked, and dropped on the ground -- the maintenance far outweighs the profits that a few quarters would bring in. Same with pay phones. How many laundromats in major metropolitan areas have pay phones that are occupied by hookers or drug dealers, 24/7? How many screaming mad arguments over money, or drugs, or "relationship issues," happen over pay phones that then end up getting smashed a few times in frustration? Those things have to be built like tanks, and they're just not paying for themselves anymore.

Re:Happening here already

[Lost Engineer]

OT, but man I miss pinball. Video pinball is like the methadone to my junk.

Payphones at their best

[zakezuke]

I remember pay phones at their best between 1990 and 1997. There was a deal in my area where you could call anyone in the state for $1.00 on the local telco phone. This was when a quarter would give you a call.

However the end was neigh shortly after 1995 when your regular payphone started being replaced by 3rd parties. No longer could dial 0 to report that your landline was not working, the operator was somewhere else and had no idea how to assist you.

And not to speak of the variable rate to make a call. I remember I tried to make a call cross the US/Canada border in 2001 or so. In the past I expected such a call to cost dollars. The phone demanded $52.xx IIRC and even worse the operator phoned back asking me to deposit $52.xx. Not like I had enough quarters on me. But it wasn't 'SO' bad there were calling cards, some which even accept recharge via credit card. $5.00 to make a given call.

But now the payphones are fewer and far between. And while it sucks a pay-as-you-go phone is the more attractive option... unless you are out of range.

Re:Payphones at their best

[geekoid]

I agree.
PAy Phone that I felt did much better before deregulation. The issue was that the companies using the COCOTS systems gave more money per call* to the landlord. Of course they didn't take care of the phones, and the good service you used to get went away.

Re:Payphones at their best

[zakezuke]

I agree.
PAy Phone that I felt did much better before deregulation. The issue was that the companies using the COCOTS systems gave more money per call* to the landlord. Of course they didn't take care of the phones, and the good service you used to get went away.

* -wikipedia seems to have some data on this subject

I'll have to refresh my self on the history of payphones, but this sounds about right. The late 90s I observed that I could no longer use a calling card from many payphones. This is likely due to what you describe, more cash going toward the landlord. The price of using the landline issued calling card went up to the point it was dollars per call even for a local call.

As far as my memory goes, it was those blasted GTE phones at rest areas which gave me the most grief.

Payphone directory has some data on the subject.

Payphones will exist, they just won't be AT&T.

[mr_mischief]

AT&T plans to help find alternative payphone operators for people who need them. The AT&T decision only applies to 13 states serviced by AT&T (SBC) payphones. AT&T only operates about 65,000 of the 1 million payphones in the US, while Verizon operates about 225,000. AT&T plans to sell as many of the phones and lines to independent operators as they can. They expect the majority of the phones to be bought by someone. They even expect to continue selling wholesale payphone service to payphone owners.

It sounds to me they just decided to let someone else field the equipment. There's a lot of exaggeration around this story, but the facts are all over the web. Death of the payphone, indeed. This reaction is kind of like saying IBM getting out of the consumer laptop and desktop PC market was the end of the Windows computer.

Hey Now

[geekoid]

don't be polluting the conversation with your facts and references!

They've been phasing them out for some time now...

[Desert Tripper]

... starting with the most famous phone booth in history, the Mojave Phone Booth. I had the privilege of making two pilgrimages to this phone and answering it during the height of its popularity in 10/99. Sadly, a few months later, the Park Service (or, more accurately, the fascist spoilsport in charge of the Mojave National Preserve) had enough of the innocent fun and ordered AT&T (then called Pacific Bell in the area) to remove it, which they happily did. Not only that, in true politician form, she created a nasty letter itemizing all of the bad things that were going on out there -- 90% of which were fabrications and exaggerations.

The feeling of being out in a completely isolated, absolutely silent, gorgeous desert valley, yet receiving communications from all over the world, was indescribable. The 25+-mile, largely open-wire line even made strange pinging and popping sounds while one talked on it, which I later learned were distant lightning strikes being picked up on what amounted to a giant VLF antenna! I would imagine that someone would have heard similar sounds by hooking a speaker to an early transcontinental telegraph line.

Leave it to the government to destroy a very positive and innocent phenomenon that served to bring people together. I imagine the copper thieves would have pilfered the wire eventually anyway, but the Park Service's action was premature, selfish and uncalled for.

The death (murder?) of the MPB is a sad story, and was just the beginning of the end of the pay phone in general.

Not just profit...

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't just profit--it's also about final reduction of anonymity. It's easy enough to throw a fistful of quarters into a phone and place a completely anonymous phone call. 80% of the prepaid phones I've had the misfortune of working with, require full identification in order to activate. The few you can get setup and activated in store with just cash get you on in store and on video, and you'd have to throw the thing out immediately after using it or risk being geolocated by any ass with a subpoena.

I'm sure that wasn't the primary motivation, but it certainly is a convenient side effect that there's now one less way to report crimes or deliver anonymous tips.

Recent graduates and downsizing victims?

[tepples]

Good lord man, there's just something wrong with paying 25+ cents a minute.
The pay as you go phones are for people who are either A) poor (obviously because they can't manage finances since they bought this) There are other reasons to be poor. If one has just graduated, has just been laid off, or is stuck earning a first year of work experience in a part-time job, is he necessarily unable to manage finances?

Where to buy used payphones?

[zeet]

Anyone know a place better than eBay to buy used payphones? I've got an art project in the works that could use two or three of them. Working is important, but they don't need to accept coins. Thanks.

And do what with it?

[Radon360]

I laud your entreprenuerialship, but I'd think you would be entering an already oversaturated market. Free WiFi is rather abundant in urban areas (even just looking only at the legitimately open-access points) where street payphones are found. Wireless providers are starting to come into their own with the pricing of their high speed data services, with WiMax offerings on the drawing board to coexist with their networks in a couple of cases.

If you're thinking that you can serve the wireless VoIP "crowd" that wants an alternative to the wireless providers, I'm afraid that you will find yourself fighting a pretty steep uphill battle to offer service at a cost that's comparable with the alternatives, or at least signing up enough subscribers to "keep the lights on".

Another technical hurdle that would exist is that payphones usually are not located in a manner that would allow for seamless or optimal coverage. While some phones are right out on the street corner, many more are tucked away in the back corners, such as the corridor to the rest rooms. Yet another issue (that I don't have a definitive answer to) is whether or not you could find a way (or negotiate with the ADSL provider) to power an access point from the ADSL line itself. If not, you'd also have to find/maintain electrical service to power the access point. Solar might be a solution for outdoors. Indoors, you might be able to negotiate a deal with the property holder to have access to an outlet at something more reasonable than having a spearate service from the electric company.

As much as I think it would be cool to replace evicted payphones with some sort of access point, I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could make it into, at best, a financially self-sustaining venture.

Australia

[caitsith01]

As I understand it, in Australia, the national telco (Telstra) is required to maintain a network of public telephones. This has prompted them to not only maintain them, but promote them as a cheap alternative to mobile phones - you can use them to send text messages, for example.

There is a clear social benefit to having pay phones. This is (yet) another example of a way in which "maximising profit" does not equal "maximising social benefit".

On the phone 40 minutes a day

[tepples]

I used 1204 minutes last month. Or roughly 40 minutes per day. I'm guessing you forgo a land line in favor of a mobile and Jhon does not.

two words...

[Cryacin]

Now where is Superman supposed to change? Stripper pants

When do the minutes expire?

[tepples]

but $19.99 will get you a pre-paid phone that costs less than a pay phone ($.12/minute, vs. $.35) to operate. When do the minutes expire? As several others have pointed out in comments to this topic, plenty of people who rely on pay phones use fewer than 30 minutes per month.

Re:When do the minutes expire?

[hurfy]

hmm, a lot of these prepaid plans seem kinda spendy.

My little cheesy phone from 7-11 cost $40 and a $25 phone card is good for a year. That's all i use on it since it is just for travel and stuff. If i have more to say there is a home phone, email, or wait til i get there ;)

And have the phone franchise withdrawn?

[tepples]

AT&T has no duty to you to provide these pay phones for you. Unless AT&T has a duty to every other tax-paying citizen in the city or county to provide pay phones for public safety purposes, as part of the bargain for a franchise.

If you even have change like a quarter or two

[vinn01]

Otherwise, you pay by credit card and get hit with so may fees that your head almost explodes when you see the charges a month later.

I tried to call the "operator" to ask how much the call was going to cost before I dialed. The response was basically:

- we can't tell you how much a call will cost before you call
- we can't tell you how much a call did cost after you call (because of all of the other fees heaped on the per minute charges)
- have a nice day

/ cell phone battery died // I really needed to make a call /// I found a pay phone //// I had no change ///// oh, this isn't fark?

Department of Bastardland Security

[tepples]

But if you find yourself without cellphone in a situation,would some stranger lend you his for a call you want to make? Uh, yeah. Where do you live, bastardland? Some would allege that the United States is becoming bastardland after the 2001-09-11 attack.

Darwin at work

[teasea]

Darwin also knocks off the aberrants who are unable to fit into the herd.

Re:Darwin at work

[gnuman99]

People advocating social Darwinism tend to be the ones that are well off financially, socially and health-wise. They are the ones that would probably not last a day in a real "survival of the fittest" world, but because of their status think they can dictate the morals of society.

The less tolerant (aka pricks) should be well advised that they end up in the same hole as the poor, ill and otherwise disadvantaged individuals.

As to the GP, there is nothing wrong with being poor. There is more about wealth than what toys you can afford. I also have a prepaid cell and I find it that it is more than I need most of the time anyway. It is sitting there "expired" for most of the year :)

Re:Darwin at work

[plague3106]

Plenty of animals survive without herd dynamics. Not all animals travel in packs.

Regarding the person that replied to your post; I'm by no means well off financially, although much of that is the heavy taxes taken out of my paycheck to pay for people sitting in a trailer park. In other words, I'm being dragged down by those that, if we look at group animals, would be left behind.

Advice to an old guy?

[smchris]

Belkin Skype phone? Doesn't have any way to log on so it'd have to be a public hot spot. Sound like an alternative? Or would something like an Asus 3e make more sense?

Remember, not all of us over 40-50 are dead yet and the need to be connected is one of the greatest generational gaps. (We often don't feel it and, so, would be annoyed paying for it.)

9/11

[Anonymous Coward]

Right after the 9/11 attacks in manhattan, cell phones did not work, land lines did not work, but pay phones did. I waited in a line of 20 people to make a call next to washington square park. Glad that pay phone was there, or it would've been a while before my family knew I was ok.

Will we regret this?

[kaoshin]

This is an interesting and probably a good move for the company that ate my cellphone provider. Regardless, I am envisioning a scenario during which American comm sats are destroyed by ground based weaponry such as that which has already demonstrated by the Chinese. Now I doubt the elimination of payphones will bring about the end of the world, but yanking up a bunch of this infrastructure and increasing dependence on cellular technology may have some interesting effects. I'm reminded of the battlestar galactica which depended on paper communication and old style telephones because the newer communications technology was so easily compromised by cylon intelligence.

Solve the last mile problem.

[Colin Smith]

Not free, and not 802.11b/g/? . Something more like Motorola's Canopy which has far better range and performance characteristics.

Should be FFA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, what is wrong with selling them to local/state governments and making them FREE to those with an ID (or have the operator confirm if you lost it). Add a id reader though for ease of use. We would want to use ID, only to prevent a person from chatting for hours on the same phone. Exceptions for 911 obviously.

Taking phones away will endanger many peoples lives!

Verizon was supposed to do this in NYC

[Damek]

Rather a few years back, there was a big press release about Verizon making their pay phones in NYC WiFi access points. I found out about this 2-3 years after it was announced, and excitedly tried to get internet access on the corner of my block, where a WiFi-enabled payphone was reportedly located (by an old section of their own website).

Not only could I not locate a signal, I felt pretty stupid standing on the sidewalk with my laptop. I don't think they kept up this plan and quietly cancelled it when it proved fruitless.

WiFi doesn't reach very far, and it's kinda useless most places where payphones are located, unless there's ample public space infrastructure on the sidewalks for people to sit & use the service.

The cheaper way.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy the minutes directly from tracfone's website, cutting out the tax you'd pay at walmart. Also you can buy a double minutes for life card for $50, which does what you'd think and would bring down my cost to 10 cents ( I get the 200 minute cards for 39.95).

For shame!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, he uses a TARDIS. And you call yourself a pedant.

Old and busted.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so how many "idiots, greed" taggers are also "new and improved" business model spokesmen as well?

A great wall decoration

[qcs-rf.com]

After disabling the coin requirement, I need to hook one up in the kitchen on the original POTS jack. It would be a great conversation piece.

What my payphone users won't realize is that their call stops traveling on a phone line once the bits hit my packet8 device.

Technology is wonderful. =)

I am OK with this

[greyhueofdoubt]

Stories like this cause a tinge of nostalgia, perhaps, but to me they mean something more.

I am excited to think that someday while I am still alive, kids will see pay phones in old movies as we see hand-cranked automobiles or slide rules.

I am excited to guess what I will experience in thirty or forty years (technology-wise).
I can't think of a more interesting century or two to be a part of than the ones I live in. I'm sure that the pace will only accelerate.

Forgive my geeky schmaltz.

-b

Going this way in the UK too

[BossBostin]

Sadly we are seeing fewer and fewer telephone boxes in the UK too. It's increasingly difficult to find one to pee in when on your way home from the pub.

Get your nickel's worth...

[jdickey]

or you did in Ohio as late as '83-'84.... the last 5-cent pay phone I saw was in Miamisburg (outside Dayton) about then....

Poor and Homeless??

[bbambrey]

What about the poor and homeless people that use pay phones on a regular basis? Several organizations have voice mail systems in place for homeless and poor people to receive and exchange messages. Many of these people can not afford a cell phone (even if it is prepaid). In many places this will be a very large impact for these people. Assuming we give them a free cell phone to make 911 calls it is going to be difficult, almost impossible, to keep the phone charged all the time.

Secondly, pay phones are used to report crimes or to get help.

On one hand I can understand ATT not wanting to support pay phones if they don't make money. They are business after all and need to make money. Is it their responsibility to fund/maintain social infrastructure? However, while it may not cause your or I problems there is a populations of people out there whose lives will be impacted.

It will be interested to see how it plays out.

Metro DC's last phone booth

[jahknow]

WaPo just ran this article about the DC area's last phone booth.
"If it gets knocked over, somebody runs into it with their car, or it needs to go for whatever reason, we would not bring in a different phone booth in its place," said Margaretta Rothenberg, a manager in Verizon's pay phone division.

God I'll miss those germ-ridden boxes...

Re:No longer required --- UMMM NO!!!!!

[enmane]

I don't have a cell phone -- yup, I'm THAT guy. The only one without a cellphone.

I plan on traveling during the holidays and I usually call in to my family whenever I go from one rest stop to another. I talk for an average of 5 minutes which is about $0.50 on my calling card which includes the cost of the phone surcharge. I do this once or twice a year and make about 4 rest stop calls along the trip so I'm out a couple bucks each way.

According to your logic, I should be "happy" to spend $100 for a phone for the year when I can get by just fine with $4.

When are people going to wake up to the fact that we are slowly being squeezed into bankruptcy due to all of these "got to have-its" including DSL, Cell phones, home phones, etc which all include taxes that are larger than the original cost of the plans.

Anyhow, it just shouldn't be that expensive to live on-the-cheap.

Bring back phone booths!

[HobophobE]

I'm okay with it if they want to ditch built-in hardware in the booths, but bring back phone booths.
In the airport, in the theater lobby, in the waiting rooms, the hotel lobby, and so on.

Just little single-person boxes where people having a cell-phone conversation can go to have privacy and to avoid annoying those in their environment.

Seriously, just because you can talk anywhere doesn't mean we can't have special designated spaces just like we used to when phones had fixed locations.

Sure, some would still ignore them, or they'd be full... but it's a step in the right direction.

AND, it sets an important precedent for the future when we all have mobile toilets. No more need for public restrooms, but I don't want people pissing and shitting in public.

Thanks.