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African Americans and the Video Game Industry
An anonymous reader writes "African Americans spend more money and time playing video games than whites, yet only 2% of game developers are black. This past week, MTV's Multiplayer blog interviewed five black game industry professionals for their perspective on race in the industry. Intelligent Gamer summarizes and highlights portions of this lengthy series of interviews."
Really?
Who cares?
I never knew there had to be any specific percentage of "African-Americans" participating in any activity.
And yes, "African-American" is a downright stupid appellation. Can you call a black child born in Denmark "African-American"?
Use these statistics to raise the usual USA fear of racism. You'd think that the US was the only place to have slaves in its history -- get over it.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Why must everything be devolved down to race? I do not care if developers are black, white, green, purple, etc.. as long as they make a good quality product. The question should be, are the developers putting out a quality product? In my honest opinion, game developers fail in this task 60% of the time. It may sound like I do not want Diversity, on the contrary, I want diversity. Diversity is what helps keep things fresh and new. I just think we spend too much time worrying about race and not enough on quality. This is my opinion, like any opinion, it may not please everyone. No offense is intended or meant.
when you are preoccupied with marijuana, video games and have limited opportunities to affordable education.
The amount of focus(1)and education (2) is why blacks (3) are not engaged in programming.
1(diminished by drugs)
2(which requires money and time)
3(not African-American because most are native born Americans)
Solution? Education of the elementary children on the importance of a higher education, a drug free life style and the constant involvement of FATHERS and FATHER FIGURES in the children's lives.
(not trying to be flame bait)
Isn't this the natural result of the socio-econic situation of said racial group in the US, the high cost of college in the US, and the fact that most employers in said industry want a college degree?
This article was bullshit. The whole resident evil 5 thing. What color do you think the people are in haiti, do you think they are asian?
so what? i bet 98% of the executives at KFC are white too.
I gotta say, it's VERY rare I see any black people at programming related events. But.. it's also pretty rare to see women. A connection? Perhaps.
More than any other group I've come into contact with, programmers typically seem to be socially-stunted and have personality and mental issues (particularly depression, narcissism, and semi-autistic disorders). Thankfully, these issues tend to translate well into becoming great programmers.
In comparison, most black people and women I've come across, tend to be more outgoing and sociable. If I had the social skills most women and black folks seem to have, I probably wouldn't be a programmer either, because there are a lot more interesting things to do in this world if you don't mind interacting with regular people.
So perhaps we shouldn't lament why there aren't more women, blacks, whatever, in the software industry, but feel some relief that they're not mentally damaged enough to find the industry that interesting in the first place.
So what about all the non American black people, or the non African blacks? If you are going to say "only x% of developers are black" then why not just use 'black' in the headline instead of the PC "African American"
Why was the parent modded as Flamebait? If anything, mod it as Offtopic. The definition of nigger is "a lazy person".. it has nothing to do with race.
As I read some of the post here "N#$%^ are stupid" etc.... I can't help but to think that the real reason is that the development industry in general is skeptical of a person of color's capability to design and develop software. I currently work as a senior software engineer on a few key development project in the telecom industry and to tell you the truth it has been a battle to get where I am. No matter what I want to believe about merit and talent, there is an underlying "how did you get in, here?!" sentiment floating around the development industry when it comes to blacks doing design and engineering work. It is a real shame that we as an industry can't just be above all of this a hire people based on there capability. Sad world......
... Video games caused gangs, drugs, and gang violence in the Brockton, MA area and throughout Boston in Massachusetts. So the mayor of Boston, Thomas Menino, wanted to outright "ban" video games in many parts of Suffolk County, including Brockton and Boston.
HELLO? Rap music, for instance, would be a much better medium to censor and show your racism.
Don't get me wrong I think this is interesting, but I just don't see it. I live in an area where if I'm not a white minority then we are at a 50/50 split. But when I talk to A. American's I never hear them mention BioShock, Battlefield, Oblivion, C&C, WOW or Rock Band. I find it especially interesting that games like Saints Row which seem to almost be targeted at "their culture" are never brought up. If anything I hear some mention of Madden, but my own observations fall drastically short of the ratio that this article describes. I would love to see where these statistics come from. Now the point of this article is still lost on me. Are we saying that even though this demographic is hooked we still have untapped market potential? Or are we saying that the stigma of being a computer programmer hasn't really crossed that racial divide? Even further are they hinting at some unforeseen racism in the industry? I know people get uncomfortable talking about race and the only thing more certain to get you punched today is talking about religion but I don't care about that these statements have drawn my interest. I wonder would they have posted this if the US didn't have a black candidate for office?
Racism, just like sexism, is so deeply ingrained in most people they're totally blind to it, and even worse, are just like the first commenters to this article- self-centered clueless twits who would rather die than listen to a different point of view, especially from someone pointing out a problem or trying to correct a wrong. (I have to wonder why y'all take it so personally, and always twitch like a gaffed fish when these subjects come up? Guilty conscience?) Nobody is asking for racial quotas, though there is always at least one guaranteed slashtwit to bring it up. Most of us would settle for you fine members of the "there is no problem, just quit whining" club to shut up and keep out of our way, instead of filling the heavens with your complaining over the audacity of anyone who has been mistreated to actually stand up for him or herself, and try to make some changes.
we will end no whine before its time
And? If we truly want to live in a society of racial equality, we need to stop calling attention to stuff like this. Who gives a shit what whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc do. As long as we're not fucking each other over, who gives a shit..
I don't know, but it sounds quite sensationalistic. I have never cared who the person behind a game is, because this is gaming, not a celebrity contest or a model show. If my favorite game is made by man or a woman of whatever race, it's not what's important. What is important are the reasons that made me like the game.
It's like saying that the movie industry needs more midgets...it just makes no sense.
Putting it differently, what matters of a game director/coder is the soul, brain and heart. Having those qualities, the rest is not relevant at all.
White Americans spend more money and time playing and purchasing Rap music than African Americans, yet only 2% of Rap artists are white.
I wasn't aware that black people are only supposed to play games made by other black people.
Thanks a million. Push Start to replay.
Niggers are too dumb to create video games but are quite good at stealing and being lazy. Therefore, it is only natural that there would be an abundance of niggers playing stolen video games all day (when they're not busy beating their children to death with the controllers).
I personally work with people of all races from all over the world, and though I can't say I have absolutely no prejudices whatsoever I certainly do not consciously discriminate against anyone because of their ethnicity. And I think a very large percentage of the current/next generation are the same - we're growing up in multi-cultural environments with mixed ethnicity and we're learning to value our differences rather than look on them negatively. It is the older generation who still wants to talk about the past, who still wants to talk about stereotyping and martyrdom. TFA does nothing to break from the conventional mold, and it's infuriating to me. In college [Computer Science] courses, I was typically one of maybe four black students, and I was certainly the only black female. In the industry, the makeup is pretty much the same. It's intimidating at times. I'm one of a handful, but I don't let these things hold me back. It's intimidating at times? Is it really? Were you singled out at college, or because you were too aware psychologically of your ethnicity did you single yourself out and limit your interactions between the other black students? Today, do your coworkers look at you funny when you walk down the hallway? Does the conversation stop at the water cooler when you arrive? Do you have to use a specially designated bathroom? No. Why is it intimidating? It's intimidating because you are all too aware of your race and concern yourself with the possibility of prejudice, not because it necessarily exists. On counting the number of black women at GDC: "The grand total was six, including myself, and I hear that [the Game Developers Conference] had an attendance of over 18,000 this year." And how many white women were there? I hazard a guess at not too many, based on the industries history of mainly male developers. Yes, women are still under-represented in certain industries, too. But if they work as hard as men and are equally qualified over time the situation finds a more natural balance. I think a lot of folks are just now starting to see it as a career choice. Young people are starting to realize that game development is something you can make a real living at. It's not like running off to join the circus. There are curriculums that are centered specifically around it, and the industry is looking for talent above all else. A-ha! Some intelligence. There may not be a lot of african american developers because we're only now promoting it to those teens as a viable career choice!
I could go on. If we want to end racial bias and under representation, I support the free market model: Provide people equal opportunities not by artificially advantaging one group above another or by continually highlighting racial under-representation, but through a good education across all people, and simply let things work themselves out over time. The problem will obviously not go away tomorrow, but does that really mean we have to keep highlighting it today, over and over, repeating the same old talking points?
I think it's pretty obvious that the problem is not people pushing themselves to softly... 95% of all characters in any popular media are heavily clicheed. Even though every single game designer, author, movie director, musician and whatnot would really like to do better. But you don't get project funding for better, you get funding for dependable and predictable sales. As "they" say: It's a hit driven business (with "it" being just about everything).
Characters must always meet expectations so that no one changes the channel because they don't understand the plot anymore after fetching beer from the fridge. Consequently any clearly identifiable group is badly misrepresented in popular media.
Also, Slashdot readers, you just have to love this quote from the article:
Knock yourselves out...
You can attach boosters to anything. It just costs more. -
Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 07, @12:26PM
Here's a very insightful comment from the article link that I took the liberty to copy here so more people get a chance to see it.
Author: Areala
Any time you bring race or gender bias into any particular medium, there's going to be problems. And while I can certainly see that there is a disparity, the first thing one has to look at is that numbers don't tell you everything.
Being female, when I was growing up, I heard all the time about how women were paid less than men, and how terrible this was. And while the numbers are true, they don't tell the whole story. Women, by and large, simply tend to go after jobs that traditionally pay less. Female teachers outnumber male teachers in every school in the US, for example--this is not because men are being "held back" from teaching by an elite group of high-powered females in schools and universities, it's because there are more women interested in the job than men, and fewer males are getting their degrees and licenses than females are. Numbers alone are meaningless without a reason to go along with them.
On the subject of ethnicity, the only counterpoints I can offer to the subject of "bias" against any particular ethnicity are as follows. First, the majority of gamers are male, and the majority of game developers are male; this isn't surprising considering that males (especially in the teenage demographic) are statistically more interested in gaming than females. We're not the rare birds we once were, but we're still not as common. Boys use video games as bonding experiences and social experiences. By and large, girls tend to bond and socialize in other ways. Men are more apt to enter the field of game design because, statistically speaking, they are more apt to be interested in it than their female counterparts are (remember the teacher analogy). It's not that the top-tier of every gaming company is conspiring to keep women out, it's that they're having a hard time finding any who are at all interested in the field period. Black or white, asian or european, it's going to be guys right now who are filling the ranks. And gaming isn't the garage-based hobby it was twenty years ago--with budgets of games in the next generation hovering in the double-digits of millions of dollars for a major, AAA title like Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, or Gears of War, and gaming revenue surpassing Hollywood in terms of dollars generated, gaming companies are only interested in hiring the best people for the right positions. If you can't program, or you aren't as good a designer as somebody else, or you lack the experience a company is looking for, it doesn't matter what colour your skin is or whether you have two X chromosomes: the job will not be yours. Plain and simple.
Point two is something that an awful lot of people seem to forget about gaming when this topic comes up for discussion, and that is that video games are all about fantasy. There's a reason why Microsoft has not made a multi-platinum-selling video game about a geeky programmer who works a 9-5 job programming the next iteration of Windows; it's a fantasy that appeals to so few people that those who would be interested in playing the game are already doing it in real life.
Fantasy in games is all about getting to do things that you can't do in real life, either because of physical, social, ethical or legal ramifications or because the universe we inhabit is not the same as the universe of a video game. No matter how hard we might want it, none of us will be able to be Joan of Arc leading an attack on the English in an effort to restore France's deposed dauphin to his rightful place on the throne. Unless we play a video game.
Since gaming is all about fantasy, it stands to reason that the things we want to fantasize about most are the things we will never, ever get to do in real life. There's a reason Madden NFL sells millions of copies with each year's release: there are millions of people all over the world who can never themselves play a game of professional football in a r
The tech sector is the *least* racist sector ever. We're importing Indians, Chinese, Japanese, etc to fill these jobs. Do they honestly think they don't want to give the jobs to local blacks or women?
No, you'll find women and blacks look up to their heroes like fiddy cent and Paris Hilton and aspire to have money but not do things like programming classes or taking trig and or Calc in high school. Women much rather marry an older man with money than work 12 hours a day in front of a computer.
They don't want to work for it, they obviously rather sit around and play video games and listen to rap so they won't work in the industry and the industry will end up importing other minorities who aren't so lazy.
Less than 13% of the US population is black, 25% of them are living in poverty, 20% don't have a high school degree, and only 18% have a college degree. Isn't the answer obvious? Furthermore, who cares what race programmers are? OMG we need more black programmers now! Why? More than half of the programmers at my company were born in India, and we have at least one black programmer. Were they hired because they are ethnic minorities? No, there are a large number of international students here, and we hire whoever is qualified.
Oh, and all lazy persons must be stupid huh? You productivist.
lol: You see no door there!
Couldn't some of the 5 people interviewed be say ... Caribbean in descent?
... you look black, you must be African!"
Labelling all black Americans as "African-Americans" seems shortsighted and as racist as many other alternatives.
"Oh
à_à
"programmers typically seem to be socially-stunted and have personality and mental issues"
Who modded this crap insighful? Where did you get that , Cliched Quotes R Us? I know plenty of coders who are perfectly normal people , in fact I don't think I've ever met one who was the alleged stereotype aspergers and I only ever met one who I'd have called socially stunted.
"In comparison, most black people and women I've come across, tend to be more outgoing and sociable."
Women tend to be more outgoing than men. Black people ? It varies just as much as whites or asians. Are you just making this up as you go along? sounds to me like you've never mixed with anyone and are just going by the lyrics on your Craig David albums,
"because there are a lot more interesting things to do in this world if you don't mind interacting with regular people."
Yeah , like not posting trite made up crap you pulled out of your arse on slashdot.
Copied this insightful comment from the article link. Took the liberty to post it here for some additional views.
Author: Areala
Any time you bring race or gender bias into any particular medium, there's going to be problems. And while I can certainly see that there is a disparity, the first thing one has to look at is that numbers don't tell you everything.
Being female, when I was growing up, I heard all the time about how women were paid less than men, and how terrible this was. And while the numbers are true, they don't tell the whole story. Women, by and large, simply tend to go after jobs that traditionally pay less. Female teachers outnumber male teachers in every school in the US, for example--this is not because men are being "held back" from teaching by an elite group of high-powered females in schools and universities, it's because there are more women interested in the job than men, and fewer males are getting their degrees and licenses than females are. Numbers alone are meaningless without a reason to go along with them.
On the subject of ethnicity, the only counterpoints I can offer to the subject of "bias" against any particular ethnicity are as follows. First, the majority of gamers are male, and the majority of game developers are male; this isn't surprising considering that males (especially in the teenage demographic) are statistically more interested in gaming than females. We're not the rare birds we once were, but we're still not as common. Boys use video games as bonding experiences and social experiences. By and large, girls tend to bond and socialize in other ways. Men are more apt to enter the field of game design because, statistically speaking, they are more apt to be interested in it than their female counterparts are (remember the teacher analogy). It's not that the top-tier of every gaming company is conspiring to keep women out, it's that they're having a hard time finding any who are at all interested in the field period. Black or white, asian or european, it's going to be guys right now who are filling the ranks. And gaming isn't the garage-based hobby it was twenty years ago--with budgets of games in the next generation hovering in the double-digits of millions of dollars for a major, AAA title like Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, or Gears of War, and gaming revenue surpassing Hollywood in terms of dollars generated, gaming companies are only interested in hiring the best people for the right positions. If you can't program, or you aren't as good a designer as somebody else, or you lack the experience a company is looking for, it doesn't matter what colour your skin is or whether you have two X chromosomes: the job will not be yours. Plain and simple.
Point two is something that an awful lot of people seem to forget about gaming when this topic comes up for discussion, and that is that video games are all about fantasy. There's a reason why Microsoft has not made a multi-platinum-selling video game about a geeky programmer who works a 9-5 job programming the next iteration of Windows; it's a fantasy that appeals to so few people that those who would be interested in playing the game are already doing it in real life.
Fantasy in games is all about getting to do things that you can't do in real life, either because of physical, social, ethical or legal ramifications or because the universe we inhabit is not the same as the universe of a video game. No matter how hard we might want it, none of us will be able to be Joan of Arc leading an attack on the English in an effort to restore France's deposed dauphin to his rightful place on the throne. Unless we play a video game.
Since gaming is all about fantasy, it stands to reason that the things we want to fantasize about most are the things we will never, ever get to do in real life. There's a reason Madden NFL sells millions of copies with each year's release: there are millions of people all over the world who can never themselves play a game of professional football in a real stadium, but
...perhaps they might be able to get decent jobs. They don't , so they can't. Frankly I couldn't care less. Every other race manages it except them - look how many poor indians manage to get good IT jobs - but the blacks always find an excuse for their underperformance. Sorry homies , no excuses , you're just lazy, feckless, workshy idiots and the only things you're good at are pummeling each others faces in a boxing ring or shouting into a mic with your pants down by your knees.
They'd rather play than develop. Can't say I blame them.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
In the US black people are over represented in the lower class. This means, the percentage of black people belonging to the lower class in relation to all black people in the US is high than compared to the whole US society. In the lower class it is more common that young especially young male humans have an interest in gaming. This does not mean that in other classes young male do not game. It just says that the possibility that you like gaming and additionally do it quite often, increases when you are in a lower class. In Europe you get similar results. In Germany for example you can make the same analysis and you will get as a result: Turkish people are unrepresented in the gaming industry. But over represented in the gamers league. The cause is quite similar. If you are poor you get worse education. This is a institutional problem. Means schools treat you different when you are poor then when you are rich. So you get bad grades, which isn't helpful in getting to university or college. At least their is a way out of it. The Scandinavian found it. They help every kid. And they help the parents. But they are not on the "competition trip" like the USA, UK or Germany.
Didn't realize I wasn't logged in... You can attribute the above to me, however.
So... he's saying that blatant stereotypes are okay, as long as they are not of black people? Am I missing something?
I've seen all three games. I'm Italian. My wife is Latina. And I'm not offended by any of it. But this interviewer seems to be saying that my lack of offense is because there is some fundamental difference in the race portrayals... I thought it was that I can choose to be offended or to be entertained by any of these blatant, joking, stereotypes.
I don't get it.
>> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
When I entered the CS course (Brasil), along with me came a guy from Africa. He spent a year on it, and then changed to Law school. I guess they don't want to work "underground" as programmers (it's pretty dark where I work) or something like that, they want to be recognized. Even if you come with the "they are poor", it's a public university we're talking about here. And a lot of the funding goes for students who can prove they are poor.
Apart from that, I don't think anyone should be offended by being called "black" or "white". How would it look if I, being white as a candle, wanted to sue someone for calling me white, or even whitey?
http://derkosak.blogspot.com - That's a blog.
Copied this insightful comment from the article link. I took the liberty to post it here for some additional views (I apologize in advance for any copies I posted by accident as "Anonymous Coward").
Author: Areala
Any time you bring race or gender bias into any particular medium, there's going to be problems. And while I can certainly see that there is a disparity, the first thing one has to look at is that numbers don't tell you everything.
Being female, when I was growing up, I heard all the time about how women were paid less than men, and how terrible this was. And while the numbers are true, they don't tell the whole story. Women, by and large, simply tend to go after jobs that traditionally pay less. Female teachers outnumber male teachers in every school in the US, for example--this is not because men are being "held back" from teaching by an elite group of high-powered females in schools and universities, it's because there are more women interested in the job than men, and fewer males are getting their degrees and licenses than females are. Numbers alone are meaningless without a reason to go along with them.
On the subject of ethnicity, the only counterpoints I can offer to the subject of "bias" against any particular ethnicity are as follows. First, the majority of gamers are male, and the majority of game developers are male; this isn't surprising considering that males (especially in the teenage demographic) are statistically more interested in gaming than females. We're not the rare birds we once were, but we're still not as common. Boys use video games as bonding experiences and social experiences. By and large, girls tend to bond and socialize in other ways. Men are more apt to enter the field of game design because, statistically speaking, they are more apt to be interested in it than their female counterparts are (remember the teacher analogy). It's not that the top-tier of every gaming company is conspiring to keep women out, it's that they're having a hard time finding any who are at all interested in the field period. Black or white, asian or european, it's going to be guys right now who are filling the ranks. And gaming isn't the garage-based hobby it was twenty years ago--with budgets of games in the next generation hovering in the double-digits of millions of dollars for a major, AAA title like Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, or Gears of War, and gaming revenue surpassing Hollywood in terms of dollars generated, gaming companies are only interested in hiring the best people for the right positions. If you can't program, or you aren't as good a designer as somebody else, or you lack the experience a company is looking for, it doesn't matter what colour your skin is or whether you have two X chromosomes: the job will not be yours. Plain and simple.
Point two is something that an awful lot of people seem to forget about gaming when this topic comes up for discussion, and that is that video games are all about fantasy. There's a reason why Microsoft has not made a multi-platinum-selling video game about a geeky programmer who works a 9-5 job programming the next iteration of Windows; it's a fantasy that appeals to so few people that those who would be interested in playing the game are already doing it in real life.
Fantasy in games is all about getting to do things that you can't do in real life, either because of physical, social, ethical or legal ramifications or because the universe we inhabit is not the same as the universe of a video game. No matter how hard we might want it, none of us will be able to be Joan of Arc leading an attack on the English in an effort to restore France's deposed dauphin to his rightful place on the throne. Unless we play a video game.
Since gaming is all about fantasy, it stands to reason that the things we want to fantasize about most are the things we will never, ever get to do in real life. There's a reason Madden NFL sells millions of copies with each year's release: there are millions of people all over the world
Ask them! I don't know. I just know I don't want to go near that damn industry. In fact, maybe it's too much like slave labour, and they are smart enough to stay away?
You mean, European Americans.
Bad! Bad! Racist! oooooohhhh!
You aren't special. If I'm white, then you are black. I'm not a 'western-europe' american. You aren't an african-american, unless maybe you were born in africa and moved here. Even then, if you want to be an american, then be one. We don't need to label it any further than that.
I'm also annoyed at people who are 'proud' of shit that is beyond their control. If you want to be proud of something, be proud of what you have accomplished in life. This goes for race, country of origin, whatever.
As for 'offensive' imagery in video games, or elsewhere. Get the fuck over it.
Quick, do a study about how many blonde-haired people play games vs. develop them. The video game industry is blondeist! Seriously, why do we still use race as a primary factor in surveys when what they're looking for is economic and social factors? That's where the racism is happening, not in the hiring practices of developers.
Make me a friend and I'll mod you up
Despite the fact that a large percentage of rap music fans are white, only about 2% actually produce rap music! Seriously, who the hell cares? Some people like products of different cultures, whether music or games or anything else. This is a good thing.
And being a "hacker" has nothing to do with breaking into computers. Give it up. You can't change the definition of a word yourself. The overwhelming majority of English speakers have already decided the definition; and that definition most definitely has something to do with race. :)
Believe it or not, race DOES play a different factor in a society with a huge black minority that's been systematically oppressed for most of the past 3 centuries.
I'm guessing the black people you grew up with, poor and otherwise, didn't grow up in an entirely-black-and-Latino ghetto, weren't marked by heavy urban accents, and probably didn't even have to grow up in an area with utterly failed justice and education systems.
If you honestly think that your initial economic situation doesn't have any impact on educational level and success in life, you're a moron.
Is it just me or are all these "problems" only problems in areas where "white" is the dominant (or substitute "white" for "male" and compare it to female)? Just let everyone do whatever it is they do that they are good at and enjoy. Nothing gets better cause you use somekinda quota to get more people in from different groups just for the sake of diversity.
There's a lot of financial aid available to poor people given on a needs-basis. Most of the people I know, myself included, are barely paying anything to go to college. Money isn't the barrier to education it once was.
The barrier is that people still think that only rich people can go to college. I know scads of poor people in the local high school who don't think they could ever go to college. They come up with a lot of excuses, like how their parents never went to college and ignore the possibility.
I doubt that race has anything to do with it. Attitudes of individual communities and families are keeping people from pursuing higher education. This is the problem that needs to be solved.
WHITE GUILT!! Don't buy in to it! We owe blacks nothing anymore, they leech off of hardworking people... 1 in 9 black youths is in jail, blacks are a MINORITY yet a MAJORITY of welfare recipients, they have scholarships *just for them*, and it's easier for them to get into college thanks to affirmative action... BUT WHITES SHOULD STILL FEEL GUILTY ABOUT ISSUES SUCH AS THIS !?
Nice to know that the offices of MTV are full of African Americans, and in the best jobs too!
African-Americans play so much video games, that they never really amount to much and thus never end up in the video game industry. Simple causation. :)
I want to play Free Market with a drowning Libertarian.
If three grandparents came from Sweden and one came from Kenia, is the person still called an African American?
Seriously, think about it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
An emotionally charged rant that solves nothing and makes your cause (if one can really extract what it is from your post) look cobbled together by an ignorant tool.
If your best efforts to look far wiser than others merely end up being incomprehensible denigration of others, you would do yourself a favor and simply shut up.
Does racism exist? Yes. So what, oh enlightened one, if you're not suggesting quotas, are you fucking suggesting? Assuming you even have one. If your goal was to simply spout off, please save it.
And how the fuck did this get modded to 4 Insightful so far?
No sig for you!!
All of that being said, I would love to hear a story about a group of black men and women who had brilliant game ideas and started their OWN game development studio in a basement and went on to make millions. It will happen eventually, with these numbers of blacks playing games it statistically must happen, it's only a matter of time. I'm kind of excited now.
It might be the pinnacle of irony to state this in my post, but one of the principle stereotypes in the rest of Scandinavia about Danes is actually that they are racists.
I don't know if you're Danish or not, but Denmark is currently having some serious issues with the recent phenomenon of immigration, and I seriously doubt a black Dane would get off so easily. It certainly isn't that way for Chinese and Middle-easterners' children. There's a significant number of politicians in Denmark whose main campaign issue is reducing the number of people allowed into the country.
One of the effects of this anti-immigration movement is that there are significant number of Pakistani/Somali/etc men who send home for a wife, but cannot get them into the country. Instead, they keep them across the border in Sweden. The social services implications (domestic violence, public health insurance, visas, etc) has risen to the point of a diplomatic tussle between the two countries.
now I'm supposed to know if the person who programmed some game is black or white? I honestly don't care, and I prefer to keep not caring.
:p
I wouldn't mind having more women around the office tho
--
Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
the vast majority of rappers are black, but the majority of rap fans are white.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
Either you are an American or you aren't. If you aren't, then go back where you came from.
No 'qualifiers' allowed.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
All we have to do to fix the ratio is either sell less Madden/GTA games or get more African-Danes to program them. Either way is fine.
Perhaps, but I know no less than 3 people with their pieces of paper (degrees from engineering, psychology and accounting) who are not WORKING to their potential. My engineer friend makes home pages, my psychology friend works retail and yard care, and my accounting friend manages a gas station.
And that, my friends, makes me sad. Those people wasted their money (and they weren't poor enough or had enough gay fathers to get grants) and are paying off huge debts with 30k/year jobs (if that). If I made what I make now AND I had my piece of paper... I'd put a gun in my mouth so fast.
The reason you find skepticism in any industry for the capabilities of a colored person is because of the bang-up job the so-called 'civil rights leaders' have done yelling and screaming about how minorities cannot achieve anything without assistance.
It is rather easy to forget about racism when you're white. We like to imagine that there are no racial biases in operation when we get a job or are accepted into a group, but white people, and white males in particular are constantly receiving the benefits of racial bias.
Racism exists, whether we believe it does or not. There is no particular industry to blame, but we live in a society that still makes it more difficult for African-Americans to compete, and the effects of unequal treatment in the past don't just vanish overnight.
As just one example, conduct even the most rudimentary research on housing policy in America and you'll find that the US government systematically denied African-Americans the opportunity to buy housing in "good" areas of major American cities (meaning white areas) after WW II, which led to lower property values for African-Americans. Even after the passage of the Fair Housing Act, it's been an uphill battle for African-Americans who want to move into high-value white areas.
There are a wide variety of other indicators of racial bias in hiring decisions, pay, and so on. It doesn't sit well with white people who would like to pretend that racism has been conquered, and that we all operate on a level playing field, but racism is still with us. It's there staring you in the face if you care to see it.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Who gives a shit what whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, etc do. As long as we're not fucking each other over, who gives a shit.
People *are* getting fucked over on the basis of race, so actually it does matter.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Or is that made FROM purple people? Sunny D gave it such a bad reputation.
The only reason race keeps coming up as an issue in the US is because PEOPLE KEEP BRINGING IT UP. I don't care what percentage of whites play games vs. what percentage of blacks, and quite frankly I don't care what the distribution is among developers. Why should it matter anyway? I am white, and I play games that are designed and programmed primarily by Asians. So fucking what?
Who ever wrote this story needs to stop putting people into boxes of color. It does nothing but make people feel seperate from eachother.
OK. So let's ask a few questions: What do they mean by the stereotype of "White"? Do they mean anglos? Do they mean Caucasians? Italians? French? Yugoslavian? Irish? Portuguese? Danish? Did they do a study on the number of Indians who play games and the number of Indian game creators? How about Jewish? What I see here to begin with is the all too typical stereotyping of "whites". I have a light skin, but I am mostly Italian- does that make me white? In New Orleans, at the turn of the 20th century, Italians were lynched & slaughtered by so called "white" folks. And there were a lot of mixed race people there- called Creole. You want to use your race baiting- make sure you have your bait straight. what I see here is a report that is designed to pit the stereotype of Black against the stereotype of White. There is no "white".
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
nobody cares.
If you want to talk about statistics about where black people are in society, I would say this has a lot to do with how many more black people fall below the poverty line or go to substandard schools. You could say that resultingly not many black people end up as game developers, but still this article is redundant IMO. It puts racial questions where they ought not to be.
Have you ever seen an "African-American's" reaction when whatever it is they want is running late? But when they're late, or not there, or don't do the work, it's no big deal...
I post this anonymously because I don't want people thinking I'm a racist, I'm just pointing out the things that I've seen from nearly every "African-American" at my school.
I am beyond appalled that Slashdot.org had a such a bad news day, that this kind of story made it on here.
...and just how in the hell can five black gaming industry professionals have any kind of 'general insight' on the opinion of African Americans as a whole?
You have GOT to be kidding me...this is an even more trivial digression than that kid who got his precious signed xbox 360 cover taken away when he sent in his xbox for repair.
Who cares how many white, black, yellow, pink, purple or orange people are playing video games as compared to some other ethnicity...? Why does that fucking matter? This was the last website I expected to peddle this kind of establishment driven statistically segregating fundamentally trivial bullshit.
What an incredibly racist and ignorant article, and again I am blown away that something this stupid, childish and utterly useless made it on a site that prides itself on information technology news. How in the HELL is this news for nerds?!
You can call me what you'd like, but this is the last of it for me...slashdot has gone to shit, and this is the pinnacle of the bullshit pile.
ArsTechnica has my eyes for tech news.
Please, slashdot editors...get back to the steering wheel...quick.
Yes.
It's interesting to compare the state of things in the video game industry to the movie industry. These complaints are very familiar to anyone who followed action movies in the eighties. Robert Townsend's Hollywood Shuffle satirized the industry at a time where the bulk of roles for blacks were pimps, criminals or, at best, the gruff sergeant. The leads were always white. Times changed, of course, and no one is surprised when movies like "Serenity" can give nonstereotypical rolls to nonwhites or when Will Smith carries a movie. From what I can tell, the videogame industry quite simply hasn't advanced as much. It's still stuck in the bad old days with the street talkin' black man. It is a bit sad that the best the industry can do is have a black man in a supporting role in something like Halflife 2 (and that is remarkable in its uniqueness) yet the summer is full of movies starring Will Smith or Denzel Washington or Wesley Snipes or a Halle Barry or...
The cake is a pie
I only know a couple of African-Americans who study computer science, or any sort of science, at all. The lack of African-Americans in the game industry ties back to the lack of interest in the requisite education exhibited by many (but not all) African-Americans.
yet only 2% of game developers are black.
And the correlation between the two is? That's right there is no correlation and neither should there be an expected correlation.
So black people play games predominantly written by whites, great, white people consume cocaine predominantly manufactured by Latinos and white people also consume heroine predominantly manufactured by people that get the raw ingredients from exceedingly poor farmers in Afghanistan. Should I be expecting most of Columbia to be crack addicts and most of Afghanistan to be Herion addicts? No, so why should I be concerned that there is a disparity between consumption and creation of video games? Jeez, the level of thinking here is *REALLY* poor.
This is a story about nothing.
Breaking news today a Martian arrived on Earth that can play Pacman really well. We fully expect an invasion of Martians that can play Defender, Mr Do's Castle and Robotron equally well.
Also, I think there's an osmosis issue. Women are just now fronting their first legitimate Presidential candidate 80 years after getting the vote. It takes time for people to push through barriers and trickle into career fields they previously had no access to.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Fifty years ago, purple people were the staple food of a visiting alien, so presumably they at least made a decent lunch.
-- Our systemic servants do not good masters make.
Chinese are producing 99% of world textiles, yet they are only 1/5th of textile product users. Something should be done about this; perhaps rest of the people, e.g. Danish Afro-American programmers should be permanently naked?
/. ?
Who let this dumb article on top page of
Geeky white guys tend to be racist pricks who are so detached from the real world they don't even realize it. This is Slashdot, home of geeky white guys. Now sure, there are exceptions such as yourself, but the common belief among middle class, suburban whites is that African Americans aren't being mistreated in today's society. They've never been to a strait up ghetto school where opportunities don't exist - schools which are in poor neighborhoods that don't collect many taxes. Most people here assume that because this is America and quality public education was available for them, it's available for everyone.
can't we all just get along? There is no need for any race/ethnicity to be treated any differently than any other. We are all just people and should be treated as such.
I have a hard time believing that niggers play more video games than whites. I mean, everybody I encounter on live is a redneck. Maybe niggers are playing older generation systems because they have no money?
The only 'obsession' Americans have in regards to classification of ethnicity is the resurgence of pride certain ethnic groups feel in regards to their heritage. Back in what I would term 'the good old days' of immigration (Ellis Island as gateway to America) everyone did what they could to fit in, and adapt to their new country. Today it seems, everyone does what they can to differentiate themselves to show how special they are relative to everyone else. This has gone way overboard, in my opinion.
The classic example of this is the term 'African American' becoming more prominently used and preferred (due to politically correct thinking) in the United States. This choice of words is more acceptable the thinking goes, than simply using the term 'black'. I believe black people prefer to use this term as it somehow sounds better, and gives the sense of some special, unique classification, or entitlement. In contrast, even though I have a varied European background (half Slovakian, part German, French, and Scottish) I have no issue with being called 'white' and wouldn't expect anyone to call me 'Slovakian American'.
I think it's silly.
Less than 1% of Gangsta Rappers are white despite whites comprising the majority of the audience and buying most of the albums, so that's even more unequal and thus we should address it first.
I, for one, eagerly await my fair share of thick black booty from rap video girls.
Not a single black person I know has ever said "African-American." They say "black." They will actually laugh at you if you say "that African-American guy" instead of "that black guy."
I'd be very interested to hear what people think about Carl from The Simpsons with regard to this.
You must be a horrible programmer.
When is MTV going to address the lack of white rappers? Entertainment is often produced by one group of people, and consumed by another. How many rap/hip-hop CDs are purchased by white kids? It's tragic.
Interestingly, 99% of people who purchase gasoline received from Big Oil aren't as rich as the people who "provided" it. Aren't statistics fun!
I agree, although as a straight, caucasian man I would like to add that having friends who are being discriminated against tell you of their experiences can also make you more aware of it. I believe that's why talking about this stuff is important - because in my optimistic opinion, when most people are made aware of their prejudices and the effects they have on other living, breathing, individual people (as opposed to "black people" or "lesbians" in general), they will work to change their ways.
Your brain is not a computer.
Not only that, but white male protagonists abound in almost all games. Blacks are significantly under-represented even though they play a significant percentage. There are many Asian people that play and program as well, and they are significantly under-represented in videogames.
Are white people more racist that they can't play anything else other than a white man?
Well going online only affirms the assumption that white people are more racist - not genetically of course, but we live in a society that accepts white people as the center of the world. Nothing in the world happens without a white man.
(You can see this in movies and TV shows too - how many blacks/asians did you see in NYC in Seinfeld or Sex in the City?)
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I bet more white people watch football games than blacks.
Why aren't there more white football players ?
Since 1995 I only have come across 1, 2, 3... actually 3 black guys only who are working as programmers. Not a single black woman programmer. I really wonder sometimes are there any black women programmers?
Does anyone know?
At the end it doesn't matter who programs the software though, it's either working or not working but who cares who wrote it?
You can't handle the truth.
Look at how they collected the data and how old the study is. Also, I don't and will never buy into the idea that every industry has to reflect the overall gender/age/racial breakdown of a country, state, city, whatever. Could the game industry use more diversity? Sure, but like any industry it's up to people that want to work in that business to step up and get jobs or create companies that reflect what they want to see in games.
I love how the summary says "African Americans" and "whites" instead of "blacks and whites" or "African Americans and Caucasians."
I dont't know how many black guys are in IT at all, not only in gaming, but I guess there aren't that many. I suppose it's because they just don't like it and their brains are not wired for this. I know this sounds racist - but I think it is true - poverty and lack of education is no excuse - there are many young russians, for instance, who are very good programmers with a very poor background, so why blacks are not? Because they don't like it and prefere to play various sports, various video games and do other stuff.
So what percentage of the above do each race participate? Now take that list and throw it away because nobody cares.
The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
Why were Somalis or Pakistanis allowed inside at the first place? There is no shortage of decent countries from which to import toilet cleaners, yet these Europeans have this weird fetish about importing muslims from Pakistan and Somalia in large batches.
that one race can successfully program for another race.
I love how this always comes up at least once to twice a year for a specific industry. The reason there are no X-group in Y-industry is that X-group is not studying/applying for Y-industry.
Last I checked you needed a specific type of education for a specific type of field.
Also just because someone does something as a hobby/past-time that DOES NOT MEAN THEY WANT TO DO IT FOR A LIVING.
I play Dungeons and Dragons about 20 hours a month, but I do not want to work for Wizards of the Coast.
And lastly how many people who filled out the survey actually listed their race? Also even better, about 50% of the population is female, yet 11% of people working in the game industry are women. Why isn't anyone complaining about that?
What difference does it make if a developer is Asian, Caucasian, African...etc? We are all humans. This type of discussion is absurd in my opinion.
Is this study drawing in game developers who are not from the US, because if they are it's kind of silly, only, to draw in black gamers from the US.
It's time we descendants of slaves brought to the United States let go of the term "African American" and go back to calling ourselves Black - with a capital B. Modern America is home now to millions of immigrants who were born in Africa. Their cultures and identities are split between Africa and the United States. They have last names like Onwughalu and Senkofa. They speak languages like Wolof, Twi, Yoruba and Hausa, and speak English with an accent. They were raised on African cuisine, music, dance and dress styles, customs and family dynamics. Their children often speak or at least understand their parents' native language. Living descendants of slaves in America neither knew their African ancestors nor even have elder relatives who knew them. Most of us worship in Christian churches. Our cuisine is more southern U.S. than Senegalese. Starting with ragtime and jazz, we gave America intoxicating musical beats based on African conceptions of rhythm, but with melody and harmony based on Western traditions. Also, we speak English. Black Americans' home speech is largely based on local dialects of England and Ireland. Africa echoes in the dialect only as a whisper, in certain aspects of sound and melody. A working-class black man in Cincinnati has more in common with a working-class white man in Providence than with a Ghanaian. With the number of African immigrants in the U.S. nearly tripling since 1990, the use of "African American" is becoming increasingly strained. For example, Alan Keyes, the Republican Senate candidate in Illinois, has claimed that as a descendant of slaves, he is the "real" African American, compared with his Democratic rival, Barack Obama, who has an African father and white mother. And the reason Keyes and others are making arguments such as this is rather small, the idea being that "African American" should refer only to people with a history of subordination in this country - as if African immigrants such as Amadou Diallo, who was killed by police while reaching for his wallet, or Caribbean ones such as torture victim Abner Louima have found the U.S. to be the Land of Oz. We are not African to any meaningful extent, but we are not white either - and that is much of why Jesse Jackson's presentation of the term "African American" caught on so fast. It sets us apart from the mainstream. It carries an air of standing protest, a reminder that our ancestors were brought here against their will, that their descendants were treated like animals for centuries, and that we have come a long way since then. But we need a way of sounding those notes with a term that, first, makes some sense and, second, does not insult the actual African Americans taking their place in our country. And our name must also celebrate our history here, in the only place that will ever be our home. To term ourselves as part "African" reinforces a sad implication: that our history is basically slave ships, plantations, lynching, fire hoses in Birmingham, and then South Central, and that we need to look back to Mother Africa to feel good about ourselves. But what about the black business districts that thrived across the country after slavery was abolished? What about Frederick Douglass, Ida B. Wells, W.E.B. Du Bois, Gwendolyn Brooks, Richard Wright and Thurgood Marshall, none born in Africa and all deeply American people? And while we're on Marshall, what about the civil rights revolution, a moral awakening that we gave to ourselves and the nation. My roots trace back to working-class Black people - Americans, not foreigners - and I'm proud of it. I am John Hamilton McWhorter the Fifth. Four men with my name and appearance, doing their best in a segregated America, came before me. They and their dearest are the heritage that I can feel in my heart, and they knew the sidewalks of Philadelphia and Atlanta, not Sierra Leone. So, we will have a name for ourselves - and it should be Black. "Colored" and "Negro" had their good points but carry a whiff of Plessy vs. Ferguson and Bull Connor about them, so we will let them
If you read the original article it says that African Americans spent more money and time than the average gamer. That does NOT equate to "African Americans spend more money and time playing video games than whites". Not to mention this is only measured on how much people are REPORTING they spend on video games... Besides, even if it did equate to "African Americans spend more money and time than the average white" that still may not impact the gaming community if only 2% of the gamer population is African American.
African Americans spend more money and time playing video games than whites...
... This statement is totally transparently bullshit. So why is it a Slashdot headline?
This is a bullshit statement. African Americans in the USA are only 9-12% of the population and half of them are in the very low-income bracket. In the target demographic (15-34 year old males), 5-10% of African Americans are in jail. They don't have Play Stations in their cells.
Whites (including Spanish speakers) are 80% of the USA population. They are concentrated in the high income brackets. The highest percentage of video game media and equipment
So how the hell could a population that is only 12% be spending more money in an area where the other 88% has more money to spend? Even if all the blacks were spending ALL their time and money they wouldn't be spending more money and time on video games than all the whites.
The statement must mean that African Americans spend a higher percentage of individually disposable money and time playing video games than white people do. But it doesn't say that. It says African Americans spend more money
You can take a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Same thing with education. You can make it available but if they choose to not take full advantage of it then that is a decision, and we all must accept responsibility for our decisions.
Bill Cosby is right.
Err, there is more power and wealth to be had for the average programmer as a non-game programmer then as game programmer. The game industry is not a path to power or riches for most who work in it (sure that isn't to say there aren't some folks who do make it big, but they are the exception not the rule). From my own personal experience there simply are not a lot of folks of African decent in the software industry at large in the US and again from my own personal experience this goes back to college. If the percentage of degrees relevant to the game industry among degree holding Americans of African decent is lower then that of degree holding Americans of Europeans decent why does it even matter?
Software Inventor
I suspect that in many cases one of the reasons they require it must be for limiting the social mobility of those who cannot afford one, ie blacks with no wealth.
Blacks are only like 15% of the population and are represented about 50% of the time. There's always a black in TV commercials and he's always the smart one or the boss. There's an ongoing phenomenon now. No minority in a commercial will be ridiculed - It's always the white male. I have been tracking this for a while and it's been long and annoying research. I have been writing down every commercial I see for 1-2 hours of TV a night. 95% of the time if there is a minority in a commercial vs. a white male the minority will either be in a position of "power", as in the boss, or he or she will be the "smart" one - as in the person making the right choice by using the product the advertiser is marketing.
There is a huge exaggeration of what the black population represents and who they are in the mix of the US population.
Who gives a shit if they are 2% of the gaming industry? They are 80% of the sports industry and no one says a word. It's accepted and that's all there is to it. Blacks, or Afro-Americans, or African Americans, or whatever they want to be called need to be remembered for what they have done - not what was done to them. It's been a free-pass for too long. I didn't have slaves and I'm not racist, but I am constantly held accountable for something I never had a part in. It's simply an excuse for failure. You can blame rap music, or ghettos, or "bling bling", but until the black community solves its own problems they will always struggle.
Remember Katrina? Ever see any pictures of white people? Ever even hear about white people? There were almost as many whites displaced as blacks. Who cares about the whites though.. It's all about the blacks.
Get over it.
Imagine you're running a marathon, and one group of people get a 300 year head start. Now we let the rest of the people start running and we try to call it a fair race? It's not enough that we're all running, the people who were held back need an opportunity to catch up.
That's what affirmative action is. It's much harder to change economic classes than it is to stay where you are in them. Affirmative action is about letting people catch up so they can advance beyond their parents' social and economic class.
And if you think your parents' socio-economic status has nothing to do with your own, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
blacks are over represented in sports and music and entertainment in general. i guess they should not exceed the 10% or so they are of the total population otherwise it smacks of unfairness and depriving others of opportunities.
Wait, I hate how everything is placed on "white" guys. Dude, are you kidding me? Capcom is an Asian-based company, but this is about how white people don't let enough black people into the gaming industry.
Alot of different people with different background buy video games, who cares what their skin color is or where they live.
I always get a little frusterated when somebody thinks others are getting treated unfairly. I do not care what your skin color is. You want to change the gaming industry? Ok, show me what games you have been working on in order to do that. Oh wait, you haven't worked on any games? So then, why should I care?
I have busted my "buns" to get a college degree, and yes, I grew up in a rough neighborhood polluted with drugs and poverty. What did I do, I got a college degree in Computer Science.
Product of you environment so you can't go to college?!? Uh, obviously you did not read a single word that I just said.
There are no handouts in life. Stop playing video games, and go to school and learn to make them, and then you can put out your game. If it is not your game, then be quiet. I don't listen to country music, but I also do not complain about the lack of black people in country music. If you think you are being stereotyped in San Andreas, then why would you continue to play it?
For the Record, I am black and grew up in the heart of Chicago. When I do not say anything, people assume I am white. Why? I do not know.
Do I think video games are being racist and stereotype people? No. Uh, zombies, hello?!? Let's not forget about Resident Evil: Code Veronica where I was getting slaughtered by white people. Oh wait, we can talk bad about white people all we want and not be racist. Stop that. I do not like when people think it is alright to talk bad about ANY other race, and think because they are called a "minority" that it is alright.
You use RE5 as an example, remember, it is an Asainn-based developer, so go ahead and tell those guys they are racist, and not white people.