Slashdot Mirror
Ubuntu 9.10 Officially Released
palegray.net writes "The latest version of Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala) has been released. Offering numerous enhancements for both desktop and server environments, this release includes notable features like Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud images, the Ubuntu One 'personal cloud,' and Linux kernel version 2.6.31. Please be sure to use a release mirror close to your geographic location to help reduce the stress on Ubuntu's primary servers; using BitTorrent for downloads can help alleviate the load even more. If your organization has adequate network and server resources, please consider hosting a mirror as well."
A lesson for Windows Engineers. Aim for 256MB, not 2GB. The era of Netbooks is upon us, and it looks like Microsoft will miss the bus.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
no it wasnt..
You have to incrementally update through each version. If you have 8.04, you have to go to 8.10, then 9.04, then finally 9.10.
The incremental updates can be done through the install updates on your desktop. If you wait too long, you'll have to change your apt sources, so I'd upgrade sooner rather than later.
-=Lothsahn=-
Looks like somebody jumped the gun. Download link is for 9.04 as of now...
I think you'll be better off with a complete reinstall. Especially if you have /home on a separate partition.
I mean seriously, how hard is it to go look at http://www.ubuntu.com/ to check?
The RC was just released a few days ago. But the final 9.10 is still not on their website.
IIRC it is not possible to skip a release, so you would have to update to releases in between first.
The update-manager program may be used for upgrades. If you are on a LTS release you will first have to enable normal releases in your package manager configuration (don't have Ubuntu available to tell you the actual name), otherwise you will have to wait for the next LTS release which is supposed to be 10.4.
you need to upgrade through each version to get to 9.10. also systems never seem to work as well once they go through dist upgrades so in my opinion its best to start afresh. Sooo... stick with what ya got.
Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
Just try it. My gut feeling says it should be possible to do it in steps if it is 8.10. Otherwise, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EOLUpgrades
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
But who cares about the next load of brown turd to come out of Canonicals backside?
Not me for one. It has fat too much Nannying for my liking.
Ah well, back to my endless Slackware compilations.
You can do the latter, but it's not recommended. You are guaranteed to have a mess. I did an upgrade from 7.10 to 8.04, and that was sticky. 8.10 to 9.04 went okay, but doing two in one go is going to cause all sorts of trouble. I would expect, at the very minimum, that you will have sound randomly crapping out on you.
Clean install is best.
http://www.funnyordie.co.uk/videos/ef83afc272/hosting-your-windows-7-torrenting-party
Don't worry, this one isn't cringe-worthy like the original.
All of the reviews of Windows 7 on NetBooks that I have seen so far have been positive about how well it performs on them. Microsoft actually targeted them because it knows it can't afford to make an OS which runs poorly on them or not at all.
You can do the latter, but it's not recommended. You are guaranteed to have a mess. I did an upgrade from 7.10 to 8.04, and that was sticky. 8.10 to 9.04 went okay, but doing two in one go is going to cause all sorts of trouble. I would expect, at the very minimum, that you will have sound randomly crapping out on you.
Clean install is best.
I would chalk the sound randomly crapping out on you to pulseaudio becoming the default sound system during one of your upgrades. It did that on clean installs too. Pulseaudio was (and still is??) a mess.
The new Ubuntu seems to have a lot of new stuff that I feel slightly uneasy about. I'm not sure if Ext4 has proven itself yet (then again, I haven't been paying attention), and grub2 isn't even available on Gentoo yet (my somewhat crude stick of measuring when things are considered "new" or not). I like the progress, I'm just interesting in hearing some discussion about it (hal deprecation, new input system, NX, AppArmor, etc).
x86, oh yes, I'm pro.
spoken like a windows user.
Yes, but I believe the proper word is 'tubes'. Please remember that it is a series of said tubes, and not a dump truck. Treating your personal series of tubes as if it were a dump truck will definitely crash your Internets and give your CPU a virus.
To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
It's free and I value my time and it works out great.
Not sure where you're coming from with this.
Are you used to using something like Windows?
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
OK, so it's not "official" as the links aren't available yet, BUT the files are on their servers. Just look at current links, copy, replace 9.04 with 9.10, and voila! At least with the torrent files anyway...
If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
You can skip from one LTS release to another. eg: 8.04 to 10.04
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
---
Linux Feed @ Feed Distiller
The files are there and can be downloaded goto http://noncdn.releases.ubuntu.com//karmic/ and see for yourself
Karmic Karmic Karmic Karmic Karmic Koala
Download and install
Download and innnnnstaaaalllllll....
Summation 2
And Windows costs no matter if you value your time or not. Even nicer!
I know I shouldn't feed a troll, but I just can't resist.....
Outside of downloading, I upgraded from 9.04 to 9.10 (RC1) in about an hour - mostly unattended (while I was doing other stuff as well).
A friend of mine who is a complete MS fanboy is currently at 4 days and counting for a Windows 7 upgrade.
I think I value my time too much.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Is that kind of like your own personal Internet?
Do its pipes get filled with enormous amounts of materiel?
Internet is a series of tubes, not pipes. That would be plumbing, silly man.
I am the lawn!
While it's easier and cleaner to do so with home on its own partition, you can re-install Ubuntu over an existing install without data loss. If you're going for a clean-ish install, I think you can just delete everything except for the home directory and install. Either way, chose to manually set up the partitioning and be sure you don't format anything.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
Have people made virtual machines of it yet? I usually run Ubuntu through VMware Player on Windows, could I grab an image right this second?
Dislike the Electoral College? Lobby your state to join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.
If you are running an older version, you must upgrade incrementally. For instance, if you are at 8.10, you have to go to 9.04 and THEN 9.10. Kind of makes it a pain, but at least you don't have to do much. Just go to the update manager GUI and update. Hope this helps!
:\
And hopefully this version will run a little better. When I went from 8.10 to 9.04, everything went to a standstill. Maybe that's why these Dell Linux PCs are still shipping with 8.10.
Well, given that it HASN'T been released yet, that might be a bit premature.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Ext4 in Ubuntu 9.10 is specially problematic, as there are reports of corruption when writing large files:
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910#Switching%20to%20ext4%20requires%20manually%20updating%20grub
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/453579
So don't use the stuff you don't like. Not sure if you can still use grub1 on a new install, but certainly nobody is forcing you to use ext4. As a second measuring stick, the upcoming Fedora 12 doesn't include grub2, either (it's targeted for F13). I upgraded and kept grub1 as well as my ext3 partitions.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
During my Debian days I never had to do a complete reinstall.
Of course, Debian didn't have Ubuntu's release schedule.
But then I always followed unstable.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
well, the question is does fanboy = competent. Someone who is a Linux veteran SHOULD be able to upgrade faster than some windows noob. I have installed every windows OS there is, and a few Linux ones as well (Redhat, Ubuntu, etc). With clean installs, I found Windows to be easier (probably due to the fact I have more experience). I have had issues with Ubuntu upgrades before breaking stuff. Maybe this is the fault of Ubuntu, but is more likely due to my relative inexperience. Bottom line, upgrading has more to do with the skill of the upgrader than anything else.
One clue I'll give you is that it hasn't yet been released, even though slashdot says so. What exactly did you upgrade too?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
I've been using Kubuntu Karmic since the beta, and it's been working fine for me. I've had precisely two problems: Slightly flaky sound (fixed by installing PulseAudio and using that as the default over whatever KDE defaults to), and the kernel bitching a bunch at me about having ECC disabled in BIOS (fixed by blacklisting the ECC modules in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf).
ext4 is fully mature--it's no more "bleeding edge" than the 2.6.28 kernel used in 9.04--but you can choose ext3 if you want, and if you're upgrading it won't in-place upgrade you to ext4. Grub2 was an interesting choice, though if you're updating from an older Ubuntu version, again it won't upgrade that for you. Grub2 works fine for me; it's just a bunch slower than legacy GRUB.
"Excuse me, did you say 'Trekker'? The word is 'Trekkie.' I should know; I created them." -- Gene Roddenberry
Nah. People with those challenges tend to actually be far nicer than Microsoft!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Then what's in the file ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso I'm torrenting right now?
Free Manning, jail Obama.
His issue isn't with the packages; they're good to go (check out the ISO on the mirrors). It's a case of plain old-fashioned "test on another machine" before applying to production. Going from one LTS release to another is well-supported, but the upgrade path he took is not.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
I have never done a re-install of Debian or any Debian-derived distribution. The upgrade process is generally smooth and painless. My current main system (a Thinkpad T23) has seen all versions starting from Hoary (5.04) in succession without (the need for) a re-install or (possibly more important) the need for extensive manual intervention during upgrades. You get to answer the standard 'this configuration file has changed, what do you want to do' or 'these services need to be restarted' questions but that is about it.
--frank[at]unternet.org
The download page has been updated to 9.10 but some of the mirror links still point to the Jaunty folder. Use the backspace key :-)
Flash has been available for many versions already...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
I'm guessing you had some particular problem or were looking for out of the box support. I've been able to have in browser Flash support since at least 2005 regardless of Linux distro.
Slashdot isn't a great support forum though (just because I say it works for me doesn't mean it didn't work for you nor will I follow up on this. You will find better advice on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/communitysupport ) but for what it's worth you might want to take a look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash . Another hint is to install the libflashsupport package too (but as always some people say that makes things much worse whereas others say that makes things better).
$ sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree
Thanks, Ubuntu!
Do its pipes get filled with enormous amounts of materiel?
I believe that the Rolling Stones answered this decades ago:
I said, Hey! You! Get off of my cloud
Hey! You! Get off of my cloud
Hey! You! Get off of my cloud
Don't hang around 'cause tubes'll crowd
On my cloud, baby
More
Flash works very well in Ubuntu for me, I actually installed the 64 bit version... hey, that's not even available in Windows (BTW, whose fault is that? Microsoft's or Adobe's?)
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
From the Release Notes.
Possible corruption of large files with ext4 filesystem
There have been some reports of data corruption with fresh (not upgraded) ext4 file systems using the Ubuntu 9.10 kernel when writing to large files (over 512MB). The issue is under investigation, and if confirmed will be resolved in a post-release update. Users who routinely manipulate large files may want to consider using ext3 file systems until this issue is resolved. (453579)
Ubuntu One client requires post-install upgrade
A serious bug in the Ubuntu One client software included in Ubuntu 9.10 that could potentially result in loss of data has led to disabling file syncing access for this client version on the Ubuntu One servers as a precaution. Users who see a "Capabilities Mismatch" error when trying to use Ubuntu One should install the post-release upgrade of the client that will be made available immediately after release, fixing the original bug and restoring file syncing access to the Ubuntu One servers. Files are still available via the web interface at http://one.ubuntu.com./
Contact syncing and tomboy syncing services are not affected by this issue.
Package list must be manually refreshed before installing drivers
The "Hardware Drivers" tool (Jockey) requires up to date package lists before it detects and advertises necessary driver packages. Immediately after a new installation, these package lists will not be present. Before running Jockey for the first time, update the package lists using System->Administration->Software->Update Manager (on Ubuntu) or "KPackageKit" (on Kubuntu). (462704)
A 4x HD Rick Roll?
What Adobe or ATI has to do with the fact that you can't install flashplugin-installer package?
It's still not funny. I guess that leaves "or die," so please come with me to the gas chamber...
Comment of the year
Downloading upgrade CD from torrent right away. I wonder when aptitude will do updates and upgrades transparently through bittorrent network
Ubuntu users have been watching flash content in their browsers for a long time. If you're referring to out-of-the-box support, no (which Windows doesn't have either).
Just visit a webpage containing Flash content and you'll be guided to install the plugin.
not 64bit.
And the version of flash that is "available" to me does not support left-mouse-clicks. Uhm.. thanks?
Depends on your definition of noob.
He's been installing and administrating Windows systems for 15 years - so by the general definition, he is no noob.
He's using Windows - so by my definition, he is a noob.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
If you want a better yardstick for bleeding edge linux, try Archlinux, grub2 has been there quite awhile.
... and kick whoever modded this troll up. Flash on Ubuntu has been available since ages.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
Will this be the first version of Ubuntu to have out-of-the-box working Flash support in the 64b version? Or will the pain continue?
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Can you install the desktop version (not the netbook edition) using a USB stick? They only provide ISOs on the official website, not IMGs.
Mada mada dane.
I've been testing out the beta and I've been finding that things are generally better than in 9.04. Hopefully this release should be more stable for Intel graphics card users too (the major work Intel was doing reworking their stuff is calming down). However be warned if you use multiple monitors and compiz - xorg lockups will lie in store. Boot speed is improved too. The Moblin version of Ubuntu felt unfinished though and had lots of lockups for me (plus it is absolutely not geared for enterprise style networks - I couldn't get on my Uni's wifi because with Moblin because there's nowhere to enter a wifi username. Regular Ubuntu was no issue though). Obviously some people are going to be upset about Pulseaudio being there but you can see improvements there that the Linux desktop has been needing for some time (even though it's not there yet).
There are areas that don't seem quite polished enough and people will moan about the Linux apps look terrible and how open source people keep doing this on purpose. If I hadn't seen multimon stability issues I would have already have switched from my 8.04 install.
I don't understand why the Ubuntu team has never simplified the setup process for Samba. It is simple enough to share a folder with unlimited access, but as soon as you want to create users and passwords, it becomes rather complex. I've had to set it up a couple of times, and I never seem to get it to work quite right.
Many Ubuntu users are also going to be running a Windows machine on their local network. If the goal is to give them a positive experience with Linux, then setting up the connections on the local network should be brain-dead easy. Imagine sending a novice user to this page! They would soon be throwing away their Ubuntu disk and installing Windows.
Making an easy GUI for this configuration process shouldn't be that difficult. I hope that it will be addressed sometime soon.
I have had issues with Ubuntu upgrades before breaking stuff.
That's funny, I often break stuff after installing Windows.
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Will my internal wireless card have a better chance of working with this one.? I've had a lot of trouble with the previous version getting any of the wireless drivers to work.
... and the obligatory quote thus said:
Another good night not to sleep in a eucalyptus tree.
"Nae Kin! Nae Quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willna be fooled again!"
Worked for me today with RC & intel 64bit.
Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
You can create a USB stick version from the CD after you boot it. If you know what you're doing you can even use the ISO to create a USB stick version directly. Slashdot isn't a great support forum and one of the one mentioned on http://www.ubuntu.com/support/communitysupport will probably be better but https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick may be of use to you.
Flash works fine. Watching youtube videos full-screen at their original frame-rate would be nice though. Or is that just me?
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
(after downloading the .flv file I could always view them with totem etc full screen no problem, so it was a flash-related problem)
I have to assume that there are some "secret" plans involving Ubuntu One that make a lot of sense (if you know them) and can actually explain why Ubuntu One exists in the first place. I've read through all the public documentation and, for the life of me, I can't figure out what is even remotely unique or noteworthy about the service.
Right now, it's attempting to be a Dropbox clone. However, it's not yet there and is clearly still in beta -- even though they have the same pricing structure as the (very mature) Dropbox. Their goal for the file synchronization service is to be as full-featured as Dropbox? But not more? Seriously, if your goal is to be as good as Dropbox, then why not just use Dropbox?
It's not even that "Ubuntu One is OSS and Dropbox is proprietary". Both services have OSS parts and proprietary parts.
Maybe, then, they are trying to be more of an online backup service, ala Mozy? Well... no. I can't find any evidence that they encrypt your data so it would be a bust as online backup.
So I don't get it. Why would anybody use (much less pay for) it when there are much more robust services already out there AND there's no indication that it'll actually be better than those services in any way. There must be some secret plans that I just don't know about.
Anybody feel like letting me know what I missed?
The problem with flash content (for me at any rate) has been stability. On 64bit I've tried Adobe's preliminary native 64bit player, and it didn't work. So I'm back to using the nspluginwrapper to run the 32bit within my 64bit OS. After some period of time, the sound will go bad. Various other observations coming out of troubleshooting the sound layer led me to conclude that it is indeed the flash plugin that's wonky.
So, it's "there", but it's not stable yet.
If you want to upgrade to the ext4 file system, or encrypting your /home with eCrypt, then a reinstall is well worth it. Otherwise it will take some extra well-researched steps to use those features.
I'm on 8.10, but will wait about 2 months before moving to Karmic, a clean install :)
That's the same combination I have on my egaggul!
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Canonical has updated their home page http://www.ubuntu.com/
apt-get install aria2c and you can download from multiple mirrors + BitTorrent in parallel to both divide the load while downloading and help start seeding sooner.
LOL...good point...so I guess he is a noob, but not a windows noob. I would be interested in what his holdup is. I was pleasantly surprised with 7 and ease of installing, etc. I recently replaced my laptop hd and it was a breeze to restore the 7 backup image and resize it to the bigger hd (stuff I was used to being able to do with Ubuntu for some time). I used to dual boot Win/Ubuntu in part for some of the partition tools that were native to Ubuntu. I haven't done a Vista --> 7 upgrade simply because I believe you are better off with clean installs, at least on the Windows side, not experienced enough on the Linux side to say.
You have to install the plugin under windows too...
The Fedora Project seems to like it just fine enough for it to be the default starting with Fedora 11 back in April.
Have another look:
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Ext4DefaultFs
Kriston
Try pressing Alt-F2 to bring up a "run" dialog, and typing
update-manager -d
I can't remember if it needs a sudo in front of it, but it uses the GUI update manager to do the equivalent of a
"sudo apt-get --dist-upgrade" from the command line. On the LTS versions, it does not announce new versions being available.
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
And here is the torrent: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
from a long time *buntu user (Edgy Eft):
Don't download it yet!
Ubuntu's repository servers time and time again get kicked in the balls on release day. You will wait two days minimum to get the upgrade done. PLUS there are some pretty nasty bugs which cause all sorts of havoc once they get officially released. I have never had a dist-upgrade go clean and always had to reinstall. Please resist the urge to jump at the brand new and shiny. Wait until Monday or Tuesday. And back up your sources.list, samba, bookmarks and newsfeeds.
That being said, I generally like Kubuntu's Karmic Koala. I've been running it since Beta 1 and while not mind blowing, it's pretty good. It's a 'stay the course' release.
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
Of course not. You have to install just like you have to on any other OS. sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree Oh the pain is unbearable...
The links for netbook remix don't work
And I can tell you that, in my experience on my MythTV backend, Ubuntu 9.04 plus ext4 resulted in kernel panics. Switching back to ext3 resolved the problem.
That said, my laptop has been running a 64-bit 9.04 on ext4 for months now with a hitch... OTOH, I don't tend to beat the hell out of my disk the way my Myth box does.
Unlike the other replier here, I thought the video was great. :D
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
President Boorcs? is that you?
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
No
That is worrying, I'm very surprised they use ext4 as the default in this case! However calm down, screaming and shouting just attracts zombies.
I don't understand your first link. That has nothing to do with corruption when writing large files.
Ubuntu has hesitated to update the bootloader for a while now, because it might not understand how to handle things you have setup (like dual booting with BeOS or something not common) so they will install grub on new installs, but not upgrade it. Since a newer version of GRUB is required to change your boot partition to EXT4 (you can change all your other partitions, such as "/home" to ext4 in 9.04) they don't convert your partitions to EXT4 on the upgrade.
On a side note. It would be nice if the Ubuntu installer by default created a seperate /home partition. (or maybe they have in the last version or so, I haven't installed from scratch).
But it sure does make it easier to keep your data..
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
I can't seem to find torrents for the either 32 or 64 bit versions on the download page. Why hide the torrents, especially when traffic is so heavy right after release?
Between the increasing mess of 8.10 and 9.04
Of of curiosity, what do you mean by "the increasing mess"? I've got 9.04 installed on multiple systems and haven't had any problems with it.
(to be fair, I use XFS for all my filesystems)
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
Ubuntu One allows for seamless integration of your desktop with Canonical's Servers. Ubuntu One can keep your Evolution contacts safely stored up on the Ubuntu cloud, along with much of your other data. This way, Canonical always has your personal data, one day maybe even your bookmarks and copies of your e-mail and IM logs, allowing you to access them from anywhere and survive system crashes.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Stop whining and start WINEing.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Kubuntu fans can check the release notes here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/RC/Kubuntu
Browsing through them, I got the feeling of tired, haggard Kubuntu maintainers congratulating themselves for surviving, but not excelling in, the production of this version which still has many issues. If you read between the lines, you see that there are still quite a number of issues. "The NetworkManager applet has received some loving from its creators, and offers a more robust networking experience than it did in Kubuntu 9.04."
I went to the Feedback page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/RC/Kubuntu/Feedback to see how KDE would do in this version. This is where you get the honest criticism that tells you what problems you might encounter. Generally people are offering encouragement but the fact is that this version of Kubuntu is still not cutting it. Comments usually start with "Great release! However ... " and then a list of bugs. These are bugs from before. One person says: "all bugs I noticed are still there: broken knetworkmanager, no sending via bluetooth, preview file in dolphin's context menu not working. I tried 9.10 in hope they were corrected, but they weren't."
I myself have been staying with 8.04 since that is the last version that officially supported KDE 3. (I hear that you can now get KDE 3 versions of 8.10 or 9.04, but I don't think those are official.) If I'm going to retrain myself on KDE 4, I might as well wait an extra half year and get the 10.04 Long-Term Support edition --if ever Kubuntu gets around to doing one. (8.04 was LTS for GNOME Ubuntu only, not for Kubuntu.)
I think the Kubuntu developers need to be strongly encouraged to fix existing bugs instead of putting in new features.
As an aside, regarding the "Known Issues" list for standard GNOME Ubuntu:
Release notes http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910
Does anyone else think that there are more and more bugs now, and that Ubuntu simply is not the "install and use defaults" user-friendly distro that it used to be?
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Since the Ubuntu BitTorrent-page is not yet updated, here are the links to the official torrents:
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-netbook-remix-i386.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-i386.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-server-amd64.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-i386.iso.torrent
http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.10/ubuntu-9.10-alternate-amd64.iso.torrent
A brand new install may destroy your files. If you're upgrading, the separate /home or /data partition isn't going to be affected. Large files on / (maybe /tmp/cd_image.brasero.iso) may be affected. The risk of data corruption is pretty minimal, because where the hell do you get REALLY BIG FILES after a FRESH INSTALL? Backups that you had anyway?
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Steve, this wouldn't happen if you'd just stop throwing chairs.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
Nope. For that you want XBox360. Ask Valve to get you a version of Steam for the XBox360.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
killall npviewer.bin
That's the best part about running 32-bit flash: it runs in a separate process, so you can kill it when it goes wonky without restarting the browser. Just refresh the page with the plugin and it will be restarted.
Intel video driver issues were huge. Also, for Kubuntu users, the transition to KDE4 (which started at 8.10) was botched and caused a mass exodus from KDE and Kubuntu - some of which was down to KDE and a lot of which was down to Canonical. Linus Torvalds stopped using KDE during this period IIRC, though I don't have the link handy for his (characteristically scathing) comments. By comparison, KDE3 in 8.04 was a shockingly polished, stable system.
To this day, I see 9.04 kernel-crashing occasionally on the best supported laptops (thinkpads of various vintages) where before, crashes on that same hardware were unheard of with ubuntu/kubuntu.
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
Obviously you don't understand what I meant when I said "64b" in my post.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I did this with Jaunty, but I already had another computer running Jaunty. I used the USB boot disk creator in Jaunty and when it asked what image I wanted to burn, I selected the Ubuntu9.04.iso to install on another computer. Worked a treat.
You've got to be kidding me.
Work with any file larger than 512MB and you get intermittent corruption, and you seem to imply it's not that bad?
Read the bug, for god's sake, people's apt cache gets corrupted before they even start heaven forfend installing real apps, doing development, working with media, etc...
All they had to do was just not use ext4 until it was ready. I.e. no open data loss bugs for a little while. Probably a conservative approach is warranted, it being a filesystem and all... That's _all_ they had to do.
Tired of Political Trolls? Opt Out!
And not just system config files, but user config too.
If it was just a matter of '# genisofs -o /dev/dvd ~ ', reinstalling, and then copying back in, then it would be a snap. But there are config files even in the user directories that may not be compatible with newer versions of programs, or have options specified that are no longer optimal.
This is a problem with upgrading any OS, and I wish that more thought was put into properly translating configurations between versions. There needs to be some kind of semi-automated way of reconciling *all* config files. Ideally transparently for things the user doesn't want do deal with, and with a walk-through for settings the user might want to fiddle with if the menu system has changed. I'm sure that's quite a difficult problem to solve, though.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
As others have stated, the recommended upgrade path for non-LTS Ubuntu versions is through each successive release.
For Kubuntu only, you can upgrade to 9.10 from 8.04 LTS or from 9.04.
I think it would be more apporpriate to say the problem is that the MS bus is actually a stretch hummer.
For those looking to get Ubuntu 9.10 on a ATI grfx card with a R600/700 chipset, you may want to take a look at the latest drivers from AMD. As opposed to the usual Envyng or Ubuntu provided drivers. There are a few people who are having a bit of weirdness with the ones shipped there (nothing big just a bit of oddities).
I'm still looking forward to the advancement of the experimental support that X.org has added to the new Xserver (1.7 me thinks) for R600/700 chipsets, go open source drivers FTW!
On a side note. It would be nice if the Ubuntu installer by default created a seperate /home partition. (or maybe they have in the last version or so, I haven't installed from scratch).
Uh, why? For most people, that's just a pain in the ass... suddenly you have to guess how much space you'll want in / and /home, and if you underestimate, you find yourself having to resize filesystems. And for those who care (such as yourself), you can easily set things up that way during the initial install.
Currently it doesn't matter too much because the main power consumption is in the display. But new display technology will change this.
Canonical's big opportunity is in mobile devices and in the Third World where power is expensive. Xubuntu is already a much nicer system than earlier versions of Windows.
Slightly OT, but the car industry has already bought into the logic. The new VW engine that replaces the 3 litre V6 is a 2-litre inline 4 that generates more power, is lighter and has 20% better fuel consumption. Nobody is saying "but my last Golf had a 3-litre V6, this is crap". Companies that focus on doing more with less are future proofing themselves.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
For what it's worth as an anecdote: I recently took a deep breath and upgraded an 8.04 machine. The 8.10 update ran a very long time and then reported that it had failed and would try to run a recovery script. The machine was pretty hosed afterwards. Nothing to lose - I told it to try to update to 9.04.
Guess what: afterwards, everything worked! One of those very rare positive surprises in the IT world!
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Ubuntu Release Party
The problem with flash content (for me at any rate) has been stability. On 64bit I've tried Adobe's preliminary native 64bit player, and it didn't work.
I think you're in the minority, here. I've been running the native 64-bit flash plugin since Ubuntu 8.10 without any problems. Have you tried reporting the issues you're having?
Gentoo has been falling behind lately.
They didn't remove the unstable mask from Firefox 3 until Mozilla basically said, "We are no longer supporting 2.x in any way" and Mozilla had released 3.5.
KDE 3.5 is still the "Stable" release in Gentoo, despite the KDE team EOLing 3.5 a while ago. Yeah, 4.0 and 4.1 sucked, but 4.2 was quite good and 4.3 fixed nearly all remaining issues. Ubuntu has been successfully using KDE 4.x releases in Kubuntu since 8.10 (or maybe even 8.04 I think?)
This is why all of my new systems are getting Ubuntu installed instead of Gentoo - It's simply too much time and effort to try and get a stable Gentoo system with even remotely up-to-date packages.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It's just you. I'll stick w/ running days-long, outlandishly esoteric processes that no one really cares about on my 4,096 cores.
I don't understand your first link. That has nothing to do with corruption when writing large files.
Of course you don't! I gave the wrong link... (my bad).
The actual link is be http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910#Possible%20corruption%20of%20large%20files%20with%20ext4%20filesystem
What graphics chipset did he have?
Keep in mind that Intel graphics chipset support was AWFUL in 8.10 and 9.04, especially 9.04.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Pretty sure this isn't true. The ubuntu installer complained a bit when I tried it a version or two ago but it let me do it. Don't remember if the install succeeded though.
You can get 64-bit flash by installing ubuntu-restricted-extras. However, from what I've seen, it's not true 64-bit, just 32-bit that runs in a wrapper called npviewer.bin that consumes 100% of your CPU until you close it, and even then it will occasionally continue to consume 100% of your CPU. It mostly works, though.
aptitude install ubuntu-restricted-extras
I hate it when someone guesses my password.
I say things which affects my Karma negatively. (and I don't care) For instance; All religion is false.
Why? With disks sufficiently large these day, just allocate 10GB for Ubuntu and take the rest for /home. For basic usage 10GB is overkill for applications, logs, etc...
If you don't trust that, simply use LVM. Really, this is childsplay.
Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud images, the Ubuntu One "personal cloud"
Oh-oh, we're getting dangerously close to a full set of buzzwords...
What did they smoke to make those cloudy names? Did the descision taking meeting look like the car full of smoke in that old Luniz video? ^^
This is unacceptable! I will fork this, and call it "Ubuntu Social iEnterprise Vertical e-Cloud Framework", Codename: "Twitching Twitter".
'Cause I got a fever. And the only prescription is "MOAR CLOUDBUZZ"!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I'd like more subtle troll as well. This one is boring.
Not at all. With /home on its own partition, settings will migrate over (personal settings, not system (/etc)). I've done this a bunch of times and it works fine. Lately I've been going the upgrade routine, but sometimes it is just easier to clean install off a CD rather than waiting x hours for the damn updates to download and install.
Hey, McCloud... get off'a meh ewe.
My experience with 9.10 so far has been extremely positive.
I did an upgrade at first, and then a complete reinstall. The upgrade process went very quickly, and I only had one problem - that my network card became "unmanaged" again. This is some remnant from my 8.10 install back in the day. Besides that, there were no problems and my desktop was exactly as I left it.
The install process from scratch also went well. The partition manager is pretty friendly, and the (I think) new time zone selector is actually easy to use. I also don't need to do a whole bunch of stuff to determine my keyboard layout -- it defaulted to US english and that was that.
The desktop system itself is much improved. The changes to Nautilus are welcome. The side bar is more user friendly, and the folders and such look a lot better.
The notification system has some improvements so it's not quite as useless -- multiple consecutive notifications from the same application drop into the same notification window, and there's a sort of glass effect when you "mouse under" the window, making that absurd behavior a bit more palatable.
My graphics card (GTX 280) was supported after downloading some binary drivers (although I had to restart to enable full desktop effects).
My sound card (X-Fi Fatality edition) is finally supported in kernel, although I had to use amixer in order to get my mic working. The new sound mixer, though, is FAR more user friendly.
I've had no problems so far with EXT4, and my load times in Heroes of Newerth have decreased since the upgrade.
The font rendering. It's much better across the board. Firefox sees the biggest improvement, likely due to the upgrade to 3.5. Font rendering used to be far worse than Windows and is now on par with Mac (I prefer the bolder, smoother look of Mac fonts, personally).
The HDD diagnosis tool is also handy. As soon as the upgrade completed and the tool ran, it warned me of some SMART errors on one of my drives. It's pretty easy to dig into the drives and run diagnostics and such.
Empathy is still bad, and I switched back to pidgin after a few minutes of use. For example, I had to find an hidden check box just to "enable" the account and get it to connect. The UI is also not so hot.
Overall I haven't regretted the upgrade at all, which is more than I can say to 9.04.
I installed 9.04 literally two days ago. Guess I'll try the update process, but I really wish I could have started with this fresh instead. I didn't think this was set to go live until December or so.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Why a separate /home? So that you can easily do a clean install of the next version from CD without blowing away all your data.
I learned that lesson several releases ago. I have 10GB / for the OS, and the rest in /home.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Check out the screenshots of the new Ubuntu Software Centre!
how is babby formed?
You know that Slashdot is going down hill when a perfectly reasonable comment asking for more information is replied to by three sarcastic comments about tubes, trucks, and pipes.
Ubuntu One looks like it uses other Ubuntu One users to store up to 2GB of data (hopefully securely) in a cloud-like state, e.g. with redundancy so that one failure doesn't cause you to lose those backups. I got that from a brief look at https://one.ubuntu.com/
Why? With disks sufficiently large these day, just allocate 10GB for Ubuntu and take the rest for /home.
And then you run out of that 10GB because you're working with large video files, or decide to rip your audio collection to disk. Hell, my /home was over 20GB before I cleared out some old cruft I no longer needed (just one directory, the result of a large .torrent, was over 5GB).
Meanwhile, you still haven't explained the advantages of putting /home on a separate partition.
If you don't trust that, simply use LVM. Really, this is childsplay.
What part of "average user" don't you understand? If you understand enough to use LVM, you understand enough to set up the partition table the way you see fit. Again, we're talking about Ubuntu's *default* configuration. And I've yet to see an argument for why the default installation should have /home on a separate partition.
"Shuttleworth .. is running a business and the ideals which created Debian from which most of the codebase of Ubuntu was sourced, are being eroded as his success enables him to sideline those who supported them"
;)
..
On the day Canonical releases the totally free-of-charge Ubuntu 9.10, all you can do is piss on the ocasion. Shame on you for a Linux Advocate
"Are my eyes deceiving me or has that Ubuntu promise just got a bit smaller on the Ubuntu main page... and, don't the words mean something different now from what they once did..."
Where, how, what are you waffling on about. Do you have any links or citations to this smaller promise? What I see when I go there is:
* Ubuntu will always be free of charge, along with its regular enterprise releases and security updates
* Ubuntu core applications are all free and open source. We want you to use free and open source software, improve it and pass it on
ROFL, weak... you said allocate 10GB to /, and the rest to /home, not the other way 'round. *sigh* :)
But in that case, you run the risk of running out of space in / (if you throw things in /opt or /local, it could happen pretty easily).
But, granted, this would work better... though I still don't see the advantage.
Also, flash worked out of the box somehow. I haven't investigated how yet, but I haven't had any flash problems yet and I certainly didn't install it manually. I'm on an AMD64 platform as well.
Why a separate /home? So that you can easily do a clean install of the next version from CD without blowing away all your data.
Except that your average Ubuntu user does an upgrade, not a re-install.
And if you're paranoid (like, apparently, you and I) and re-install rather than upgrade, you never want to install a new OS and then trust it with your old /home in the first place. It's much safer to create an entirely new installation, then copy things over as you need them. Otherwise, you may fall victim to old config files that no longer work with the new applications, etc (I've had that happen with Gnome on more than one occasion).
Haven't had the need ever for more than 10GB on /.... Normally, I do the full /usr /tmp /var /opt /home separation anyway.
For the most part, they keep working well. The major problem is that the upgrade changes the layout of files on the disk, and, since the highly optimized boot procedure depends on that, your boot will likely become slower. You can at least mitigate this problem by rebuilding the boot readahead list as explained here.
Good Christ, *why*? Yeah, 20 years ago that might have been a good idea, but I really don't get the need these days, given the size of disks and the popularization of journaling filesystems (which minimize fsck delays).
I don't know what Ubuntu did to it, but we've been using ext4 by default on Fedora throughout the 11 and 12 cycles and haven't had any reports of this bug that I can find.
Simple: less risk that you forget to uncheck the "format" checkbox when installing the OS. If it is on a separate partition, your data is safe. (Well as safe as the disk hardware).
Default Ubuntu install is "format" the / disk. If this includes your /home, you're fucked. At least the average user is.
That would mean you're saying Windows Runs. It doesn't.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Sharing the same home over different distros? Look, you don't need it, it's clear.... Just don't come whining at me when you actually do format your / accidentally.
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18833
The Hardware Abstraction Layer (HAL) Daemon is becoming obsolete, starting with Karmic Koala. Apparently the plan is to augment udev.
This is what they should have done all along. HAL was always a case of running another instance of udev when, in most cases, there was of course already one running; it doesn't do anything new, and simply adds complexity and extra resource usage, unnecessarily.
Ubuntu still needs to change a lot (scrap Upstart/clone FreeBSD init, get rid of DKMS, ideally get rid of crapt-get and clone ports, revert to OSS for sound, get rid of the insane scenario where GNOME is irremovably fused with virtually the entire rest of the system) in order to become a system I'd consider installing, but this is an important step in the right direction, and is a solution for what was truthfully, one of the major issues that I have traditionally had with Ubuntu.
Most Ubuntu users upgrade, not re-install.
For those that do re-install, it's a *really* bad idea to use your old /home straight away, anyway, as you'll inevitably run into configuration files that no longer work. Plus the cruft builds up.
No, if you do a full re-install, you're much better off backing up your home directory, then doing a full re-install and copying the files over that you want. Or, as I do, you just keep two partitions around, one with the old OS+home, and one with the new OS+home (after all, as you say, disks are huge these days), and just copy from one to the other on a major OS upgrade.
On a side note. It would be nice if the Ubuntu installer by default created a seperate /home partition. (or maybe they have in the last version or so, I haven't installed from scratch).
Uh, why? For most people, that's just a pain in the ass... suddenly you have to guess how much space you'll want in / and /home, and if you underestimate, you find yourself having to resize filesystems. And for those who care (such as yourself), you can easily set things up that way during the initial install.
Going from experience, many of those who care only realize they care when it's too late. i.e. after they've installed Linux, decided they like it, and hit their first upgrade point, whereupon someone says 'of course, if you have a separate /home, you can just...'
Metaphor for what you just did: The thermites just raided the black ants hive and left red ant bodies behind as proof the red ants did it.
You sir, are not a red ant.
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
A lesson for Windows Engineers. Aim for 256MB, not 2GB. The era of Netbooks is upon us, and it looks like Microsoft will miss the bus
WalMart.com lists 12 Win 7 netbooks for sale on line, 3 in-store.
Netbooks
Atom CPU. 10 inch screen.
1 GB RAM and a 160 or 250 GB HDD. Prices start at $300 US.
The life of the geek is hard:
This is a nice little netbook.
I got it home and installed Mandriva 2009.1 on it. I ran into a couple problem I want to share. The Ethernet is not recognized by 2009.1 and the wireless requires additional packages, so your left without any Internet connection. I went and bought a usb to Ethernet adapter "linksys usb300M plugged it in and had Internet in seconds. Another flavour of Linux may work fine without issues, I just like Mandriva. Acer Purple 10.1" Aspire One [Comment Posted Oct 23]
WalMart doesn't sell a netbook with less than 1 GB RAM.
The geek's obsession with "saving" RAM puzzles me.
RAM is generally the simplest and cheapest way to improve the performance and reliability of any system:
ReadyBoost works with most flash storage devices. In Windows 7, it can handle more flash memory and even multiple devices--up to eight, for a maximum 256 gigabytes (GB) of additional memory. This feature comes with all versions of Windows 7. ReadyBoost
If your computer has a hard disk that uses solid-state drive (SSD) technology, you might not see an option to speed up your computer with ReadyBoost when you plug in a USB flash drive or flash memory card. You may instead receive the message, "Readyboost is not enabled on this computer because the system disk is fast enough that ReadyBoost is unlikely to provide any additional benefit. This is because some SSD drives are so fast they're unlikely to benefit from ReadyBoost. Using memory in your storage device to speed up your computer
For the mythtv storage, you should really consider using JFS / XFS
I think they have a great idea with Ubuntu One. I think this type of idea (syncing your desktop data, sharing, and collaboration) is going to be wildly popular. However, I think they have have their business model out of whack. The idea of expensive recurring service fees from a software vendor is about as archaic and unpopular as expensive recurring version licensing fees from proprietary vendors. To put it bluntly $120/yr for 50GB is too expensive. Other players like Google will offer a more ubiquitous service at a more reasonable price point with a wider integration into their existing services. I like Ubuntu and would love to see this succeed. I just think they are missing the mark.
When I see almost good ideas like this I just cringe. This is similar to the idea Microsoft has put out with their Live Services. There you get 25GB of free storage for your pictures, files, or whatever for free (web pages have adverts on them though), however the interface, file management, and integration between online services and the desktop is klunky at best. The team that gets this right (all the way right) first will own this market. My bet is on Google.
Don't think of it as a flame, more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage.
Run MSO, PlanetSide, WoW, Crysis, GTA X, Global Agenda, Steam and the games i download for it?
Nope! No crappy, overpriced games for you to whine about whenever you get your troll a$$ pwn3d! Isn't it great? AND it'll help encourage you to get out of your parents' basement and get an actual life! This one benefits all of us!
Will it use the peripherals available at Best Buy, or that the people around me have?
Oh, hell no! Thankfully, with Linux, you can learn to avoid the borderline-fraudulent practices of Best Buy and use superior sales outlets, like just about anywhere on this wild new invention called the "Internet", where they actually sell you decent hardware, and you'll most likely save hundreds in the process over Best Buy's "premium" name brand nonsense!
Will it work with contemporary video and sound cards?
Certainly! It won't work on flipping exotic just-released-five-days-into-the-future cards that the whiny framerate-scrapers use, leaving you open to actually do useful work, as opposed to sitting around and wanking off to your "l33t" 594.2 frames per second and eighty-bajillion-speaker sound!
Will i be able to share files/programs with more people or fewer people?
That's the best part! Since all those viruses you love to share don't work on Linux, not to mention the existence of an actual security-first design policy that prevents trivial exploits from popping up on a regular and all-too-frequent basis, you won't be able to share them, thus allowing you to actually get some work done once in a while, rather than spend all day updating sleazy, questionably-operated anti-virus programs whose functionality amounts to little more than voodoo dances to ward off a constantly-mutating enemy!
Glad I could clear things up! Enjoy your more convenient life trolling for less!
Sharing the same home over different distros? Look, you don't need it, it's clear
But most people don't, that's my entire damn point. Ubuntu's default configuration should be reasonable for normal users, not 30-year Unix dinosaurs. ;)
And sharing a /home over distros seems like a deeply bad idea... incompatible versions of software packages would wreak havoc on your config files.
Just don't come whining at me when you actually do format your / accidentally.
Ah, I see you've never heard of backups. Weird, given your proclivity for clinging to age-old Unix traditions. ;)
...a new Ubuntu every 6 months? Seems like a support nightmare - and as other posts here have mentioned, the incremental upgrades are only really viable if you don't skip releases. It would certainly worry me if I were a hardware mfr looking to sell Ubuntu-based machines.
Yes, there are the LTS versions, but the website pretty much steers visitors towards the latest 6-monthly release. Even then the "long term support" seems to be mainly critical bugfixes rather than keeping applications up-to-date. Now, your typical /.er may have no problem scouring the web for a suitable tarball or .deb containing the latest version of Open Office, but with no established equivalent to the user-friendly installers used by Windows and Mac, non-techie users really need to get their upgrades via their distro's "install new software" tool.
Seems to me that, although there will always be a place for bleeding-edge distros, its about time for mainstream, end-user focussed distros like Ubuntu to grow up a bit and settle down to a more sedate lifecycle, with a couple of years between major OS updates (just like MS and Apple) and concentrate on keeping their application repositories up-to-date.
Most users want to run the latest applications, not re-configure their OS every 6 months.
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Most netbooks don't have optical drives, so the ISO is pretty much useless. v9.04 provided an IMG file that could be used to created a bootable USB flash, but I don't see that for v9.10. Anyone know where the UNR IMG file is for this release?
Going from experience, many of those who care only realize they care when it's too late. i.e. after they've installed Linux, decided they like it, and hit their first upgrade point, whereupon someone says 'of course, if you have a separate /home, you can just...
Can just... backup. Then either re-install and copy everything over, or do an 'apt-get dist-upgrade'.
I mean, you don't really trust a new OS with your old data without backing it up first, do you?
BTW, I've been running Linux for 15 years now. I have yet to see a pressing need for a separate /home partition, and I've learned the hard way what a pain in the ass it is to run out of space, particularly if /home happens to be butted up against the end of the disk.
It's child's play for us, not for 'normal' people. File sizes don't mean much to non-computer people.
Ubuntu makes computers possible for the bottom-of-the-barrel folks and keeps it flexible and powerful for experienced users. If you want them separated, do it yourself.
The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
Been there, kernel panicked. Thanks, but no thanks. Meanwhile, ext3 has been rock solid stable, across multiple distros, with years of service.
One user is reporting file corruption and nobody else can replicate it. That's no reason to hold up a release or worry at all.
Otoh, for a while I repeatedly got file corruption copying large ~10gb files on 9.04 from my ext3 filesystem to an SMB share. The hash would be wrong maybe 3/4th of the time after copying and doing an 'md5sum smb/thefile'. So we should stop using ext3 also? disable cifs?
Chances are in both cases it had nothing to do with the filesystem at all and was something else like flaky hardware.
I think you'll be better off with a complete reinstall. Especially if you have /home on a separate partition.
Nice opinion. Got any reasoning to back it up?
My home file server was originally installed in 1998. For 11 years I've been upgrading it, never a problem. At this point there's nothing left of the original hardware or the original software, but it's the same installation. My laptop was installed in 2001. That was three machines ago, but I just copy the disk image from one to the next, and keep on apt-get upgrading. Those are both Debian systems, of course, Ubuntu doesn't go back that far. My desktop machine was originally installed with Ubuntu 7.04. It's now on 9.04 and will be upgraded to 9.10 soon.
There's no reason whatsoever to reinstall.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Emmm... obviously you don't understand what "out of the box working flash support" means...
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
Funny, because I thought the premise was bottom-of-the-barrel computer users. Those don't have backups. Just saying...
Your solution is just as bad as mine for the computers users who are targeted by Ubuntu.
Ubuntu finally explains the difference between the two: "The big difference is that OpenOffice.org is free (and promises never to introduce Mr Clippy)"
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/910features
Funny, because I thought the premise was bottom-of-the-barrel computer users. Those don't have backups. Just saying...
And they also don't understand how to re-install Ubuntu and have it use their old /home partition (to do that, you have to use the advanced partitioning mode). Average users will just upgrade. And if they do that, then having /home on a separate partition presents absolutely zero advantages, while creating the pain of a more inflexible storage arrangement.
So is the video fixed for the EEEPC so the menu isn't so painfully slow? ( its the video driver, don't remember which chipset )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I'm definitely willing to say that I have had bad experiences with Ubuntu upgrades breaking things in the past, mostly in the way of my monitor set up.
However, the 15 minutes it takes to get three monitors each with virtual desktops back up and running vastly outweighs the Windows alternative of one giant screen with no virtual desktops.
I also don't know how anyone familiar with package repository systems can see that as anything but a huge time saver with respect to an operating system like Windows.
Very truthfully, cost of an operating system isn't that important to most tech-savvy people. If I want to use Windows 7, I can either pirate it, or get a free student copy. There is some time investment in getting a Linux setup that works for you, but after that's done, you can be far more productive than you ever would be with Windows.
It's not out on Gentoo? That's odd, because even on our Debian/Lenny systems at the office Grub2 has been available for quite awhile, and Debian/stable is hardly known for being "bleeding edge"
I like to make /home partitions the size of my backup volume (currently 800GB/LTO-4).
That way I can be sure that a block-level backup will fit on a single uncompressed
volume.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
npviewer is part of "nspluginwrapper", and IMHO should be avoided like the plague. It causes nothing but problems, especially the infamous "I've crashed your firefox but will continue to run flash in a wrapper while consuming CPU" issue.
Adobe has had flash10 in "alpha" for linux/64-bit for awhile now. I'd heartily recommend it over the 32-bit wrapped version.
See here:
http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer10.html
http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/64bit.html
Ubuntu One looks like it uses other Ubuntu One users to store up to 2GB of data (hopefully securely) in a cloud-like state, e.g. with redundancy so that one failure doesn't cause you to lose those backups.
Nope. Apparently the data is stored on Amazon's S3 servers, according to the wiki here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne#"Storage"
Oh. Well that's pretty interesting. I'm surprised that they (either Canonical or Amazon) were willing to foot the bill for 2GB/user.
So you still have to use sudo and create a password to install it? That part is different from "any other OS".
The beta bas been around for a while, so there would be no difficulty in upgrading anything that has changed.
/etc/inittab, which the Ubuntu devs obviously consider to be beyond our ken and proceeded to make it so by burying the function in some $BIGNUMBER of subdirectories of /etc. And don't get me started on trying to set a static IP for a LAN. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't - but if I have to bust out a root terminal to use ifconfig and route to set it up manually, I would rather have a distro that offers me the option to do that easily without a GUI getting in the way.
I happen to have tried out the beta just 3 days ago when a failed HDD forced a reinstall of any Linux distro of my choice. I loaded up the beta, and for once I stuck with it for a whole 2 days before trashing it and going back to Arch Linux, which is my current choice for a post-Slackware flavour.
I guess Ubuntu must be great for people who want everything "out of the box" without ever needing to look at the internals. I just found it incredibly irritating to have to resort to google when all I wanted to do was change one line in
I've just migrated approximately 1.5TB of "large files" from ext3 to ext4 on karmic. Every single file was verified by md5sum. Critical files were additionally verified with a diff.
"Liechtenstein is the world's largest producer of sausage casings, potassium storage units, and false teeth."
I can testify that bad ram is likely the culprit. I had a single bit get flipped in one of my apt database files. If it were a filesystem issue, it would likely affect whole blocks, not bits.
The comment where the md5sum was constantly changing has the distinct odor of a memory problem. When it "stabilized" it was probably due to being flushed out to disk.
Keep in mind that a memory error in high memory (>1GB) will most likely result in the disk cache being corrupted: process memory won't be affected until you launch something big.
..."kernel panicked"...
/home or /usr, ext4 will do it's best there. But it is not always perfect, ie if you rely on an netbook SSD you probably don't want journalling, and would mount with noatime to preserve write cycles on that device.
That means absolutely nothing. Panics dont depend on which filesystem you intend to use, and the perfect filesystem doesn't exists and never will. You probably misconfigured grub or forgot to remake initrd or such.
The suggestion to use JFS for mythtv storage is because it has constant time on file deletion over file size, and your myth storage dir will be packed up with lots of very big files. Besides that, you will appreciate the resize feature with is executed on the fly with mount -o remount,resize , very helpful when coupled with LVM.
That obviously doesn't mean you should use JFS for your
Reading man pages helps a lot, too.
This video springs to mind...
gcc: no input sig
In this day and age, a 512Mb file is not really big. A typical .iso or movie rip exceeds that amount.
Not according to the Kubuntu page. And Kubuntu is just Ubuntu with KDE.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KarmicUpgrades/Kubuntu/8.04
Says you upgrade directly from 8.04
Great, you can use this certificate:
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000818.html
I've struggled mightily with my Radeon 9200 video card under Ubuntu. I don't get any acceleration. Often the resolution goes back to default VESA, at 800 x 600 @ 60Hz. Irritating but livable.
Viewing any Flash movies ends the browsing session, taking all resources and preventing any other loads. The only way to fix it is to close the tab. If I didn't have Flashblock, surfing would be impossible. No Flash. Think about that for a minute.
Yes, I've installed the proprietary drivers AND the Flash drivers. I'm not an idiot. I have a fair bit of Unix / Linux experience.
Support has ranged from "lol get a better card" to "ATI has proprietary drivers and doesn't work under Ubuntu. It's their fault for not supporting a GPL framework" to "your computer is too old and you should buy another one". I note that Voodoo cards are supported.
So realistically, the attitude is "buy $100 - $500 worth of stuff that may or may not work in order to get the free program to work."
Personally, I'm looking forward to when my wife gets her new laptop so I can get the XP licence back and actually be able to use my computer. Ubuntu's been a pain in the ass for the last two years, and I'm sick of it.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
I haven't read up on 9.10 yet, but I'm hoping it supports
03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV516 [Radeon X1300/X1550 Series]
Better than 9.04 did. That was a complete mess, and left older radeon card users scrambling for the best solution.
That means absolutely nothing. Panics dont depend on which filesystem you intend to use, and the perfect filesystem doesn't exists and never will. You probably misconfigured grub or forgot to remake initrd or such.
No, I hit a bug in the filesystem. It *does* happen from time to time, believe it or not.
ROFL, "panics don't depend on which filesystem you intend to use"... your 6-digit UID would suggest you're not a newb, and yet that comment is so silly it seems to suggest otherwise. The contradiction is puzzling yet fascinating.
The suggestion to use JFS for mythtv storage is because it has constant time on file deletion over file size, and your myth storage dir will be packed up with lots of very big files.
I'm aware of that. I don't care. Slow delete in Myth 0.21 works around the issue for ext3 and works perfectly fine. This is on a system with 2 tuners, a TB of storage, and around a dozen recordings per day, many simultaneous, with regular auto-expirations occuring (ie, the filesystem is being regularly hammered, both in terms of writes and deletes).
As for resize, I don't resize. When my RAID fails, I buy a new set of drives, copy over the data, and move on. And if I did feel the need to tack on storage, I'd use storage groups, not LVM (which, having used it in the past, simply isn't worth the additional hassle, not to mention cognitive load).
You can create a USB stick version from the CD after you boot it.
Which requires 1. a working CD burner to make the CD, and 2. a machine with a bootable (that is, usually internal) CD-ROM drive whose hardware is compatible with Ubuntu. PCs typically don't come bundled with a USB optical drive, and some BIOS versions that can boot from a USB drive can't boot from a USB optical drive. So for people who have a Windows PC and a second PC with no optical drive, I recommend the UNetbootin instructions on the page at help.ubuntu.com that you linked. I used it to make an SD card to install Hardy on an Eee PC with a 4 GB SSD, and I used it to make an SD card to install Jaunty after I replaced the stock SSD with a 32 GB RunCore SSD.
When I checked for updates this morning, it asked if I wanted to upgrade to the newest version. I did. In the last 10 years, this will be first time I will (hopefully) have a successful upgrade. In the past, all the way back to RedHat 5.something upgrades have killed me and I've had to do a fresh install. I was always running 2 monitors, and that seemed to be a never-ending battle re-configuring X. I've gone from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake to Kubuntu.
Having said that, I recently built a new computer with Intel quad-core and ditched the 2 monitors in favor of a big flat screen... so I did a fresh install of 9.04 64-bit Kubuntu. I've been loving it! There have been a few things I didn't care for, but even KDE4 is OK, and Compiz is great.
Still crossing my fingers. :)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Guess what: afterwards, everything worked! One of those very rare positive surprises in the IT world!
I upgraded directly from 8.04 to 9.04 with no problems. I was amazed as well, as I've never seen a perfect upgrade from one version to another in any Linux distribution. There has always been some glitch or gotcha that was easier to fix with a clean install and restoration of stuff from backup. It has been an act of purist optimism to even try, but one finally rewarded with the upgrade to 9.04. I'm going to try upgrading to 9.10 that way, though I'll wait a couple of days for the rush to be over.
Loose lips lose spit.
Complain to ATI/AMD, not Ubuntu
No sig for the moment.
My big problem with 9.04 was trackerd, which would fairly frequently pop up a dialog box that wouldn't go away. After a while, it started using so many system resources when it popped up that the system would lock. (I don't know which resources, since my terminal program running top froze also.) I checked the bug system, and it was a fairly common complaint, while one workaround they suggested did nothing for me.
The secret to running 9.04 turned out to be "sudo apt-get remove tracker". It's great. It's like having a computer again. Even the sound works now (it didn't under 8.10, and installing drivers myself didn't fix the problem).
Frankly, if I wanted to troubleshoot system problems, I'd have installed Gentoo or something.
I think I may just skip 9.10 and wait for the next LTS version (10.04, I believe).
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You can choose other filesystems, such as ext3, if you setup the partitions manually.
Boot up seems slower, it hung on reboot at the close of the upgrade, but otherwise, looks and feels solid. GREAT JOB!
Ext3 was not exactly perfect either. At least with the default configuration that came with ubuntu I had data loss problems. Never had that with NTFS. I also have second hands accounts of disks that didn't even boot with ext3 that worked fine when formated with NTFS.
I'm sure the increasing dependence on Mono will fix all the problems.
Because we have 64bit flash in Windows and Mac OS...
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
I haven't had any issues with picking up hardware from Best Buy and dropping it in Linux systems for years.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Released usually means stable. The first failure notice I had after installing the RELEASED Ubuntu 9.10 was that the highly touted Ubuntu One was broken. My client was more advanced than the server according to the alarm. So as far as exhibiting their cloud capability they score a negative. My web cam is useless. Skype only partially works. It may say released but its still a beta!
The new Ubuntu seems to have a lot of new stuff that I feel slightly uneasy about. I'm not sure if Ext4 has proven itself yet (then again, I haven't been paying attention), and grub2 isn't even available on Gentoo yet (my somewhat crude stick of measuring when things are considered "new" or not). I like the progress, I'm just interesting in hearing some discussion about it (hal deprecation, new input system, NX, AppArmor, etc).
My theory is that this is a release to load up on almost-stable technologies, work out the shit, and have everything 'proven' for Ubuntu 10.04.
They might get to understand how to re-install Ubuntu. They manage it with Windows, and tech support hand-holding them, or just slapping in the DVD and clicking next a lot.
The only good reason for a separate /home is to partition your data from everything else. I don't care if my OS dies, I can re-install it without having to worry (or copy) masses of data to a backup partition, and possibly (probably in my case) forget something. Its not something you'd do very often, but when you do come to do it you realise why you did it. If you have Windows on, you'll realise exactly why you did it when Windows 7 practically won't let you do an upgrade anyway.
In these days of super-large disks, there's no reason to give / a mere 10Gb. Give it 25Gb (which is what I gave Vista, and is nearly full now :( ) and you'll never fill that, not with Linux software.
I tend to do 3 partitions anyway - one for the OS and stuff; one for my data; one for temp files, downloads, backups etc. It works well for me. I think it'd work well for the common user too, the days of one big "C:" partition should be over.
Awesome.
Does that include sound/video cards?
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
At the moment the situation looks a good bit worse in 9.10 then it did in 9.04, as Pulseaudio is no longer optional, but required part for Gnome. If you uninstall Pulseaudio you can no longer access the gnome-volume-control (which has been completly rewritten), volume control buttons on the keyboard no longer work, volume control applet is gone as well.
And with Pulseaudio installed I now have weird "klack" sounds whenever an application starts to use sound and applications like Rhythmbox seem to stall sometimes when they try to start playing sound, neither of the things happened with 9.10.
There are also other issues, such as a new Grub which is extremely slow (40sec(!) just to get to the Grub menu).
So far the release is rather disappointing.
If the user is trying out Linux and doesn't want to worry about losing settings and data with different distributions? Also, the partitioning would be invisible to the user unless they are fiddling with things, and if they then discover they needed separate partitions, it's easier to have it done already than backing up data and wasting time...
I would look to BSD. OpenBSD is my personal favorite but any of Open, Free or Net should run fine on that.
I think you'll find that modern-day web pages and their heavy client-side requirements have left
these desktops behind more than the operating systems. Any OS will run great, until you load a web
page filled with AJAX and Flash.
Why do they turn off the incremental updates, rather than keeping them working forever? It seems that if it worked at all they could keep the "update to version x.yy" button on the updates panel, and you could click that through all the intermediate versions to update to the current one.
I had to reinstall because I had not updated my Ubuntu machine for too long and I finally got some software (google earth) that required the new system. This was rather annoying, in particular because it insisted on partitioning my existing Ubuntu partition in half to preserve the old system (I instead wiped the Windows install because I had not ever used it and it did seem to be happy with having the entire disk be Ubuntu).
I just did this. Under one of the tabes in the update manager there's an option to change from "upgrade from LTS" to "upgrade on every major release". Check that, hit ok, and refresh. I upgraded from 8.04 to 9.04 via 8.10, and I'm about to make the 9.10 jump. I'm going to wait a week, let any major bugs get sorted out, let the servers rest a bit, and then make the jump.
moox. for a new generation.
No, just a random elohssa sitting at his terminal.
Pulseaudio is optional in 9.04? I've been trying to get rid of that piece of shit since 8.04. Every time I try to jump through the hoops, I end up hosing sound entirely..
PLEASE enlighten me. I beg of you. I don't want to have to switch to kubuntu.
For those of you that need wireless, and need to access Access Points with hidden ESSIDs (like I do for work), you should stay away from the KDE version of 9.10 (Kubuntu) for the time being, unless you're still comfortable with installing/running wicd. The latest release candidate of 9.10 I ran last week still had issues out of the box. If you need this capability, stick with the plain vanilla version (Gnome). I'm told that nm-applet works O.K. with wireless, although I've not had the chance to confirm it yet.
As always, YMMV...
Last Measure?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
The only good reason for a separate /home is to partition your data from everything else.
Right. And the only advantage that provides is if you decide to upgrade and reuse the same /home. I've already pointed out how that's a bad idea, in general. And that use case requires more advanced knowledge of Ubuntu, Unix, and partitioning than your average user possesses. So it's only really useful for advanced users, who are already capable of splitting out home into a separate partition.
Its not something you'd do very often, but when you do come to do it you realise why you did it.
No, you might. I haven't. I've upgraded from 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04 -> 8.10 -> 9.04, and soon 9.10, and never once have I regretted not splitting out /home. In fact, given the incompatibilities I've experienced due to config file changes and so forth, I've been extremely *glad* I chose to create a whole new /home, followed by copying over the things I want, as that ensures I start with a clean slate as far as the desktop environment goes.
I think it'd work well for the common user too, the days of one big "C:" partition should be over.
Again, you say 'should', as if it's just a foregone conclusion that your way is better and that everyone else is too dumb to realize it. But that's not at all true. A split partition scheme brings certain advantages. A unified scheme brings others. Hell, this whole discussion is about that very topic. To pretend that your approach is the end-all and the be-all is absurd.
Okay, mods, that was pretty funny, come on.
Pulseaudio is optional in 9.04?
More or less, as far as I remember, you could just do a:
sudo apt-get --purge remove .*pulseaudio.*
and then reboot/logout and have Gnome continue to work fine. With Ubuntu9.10 its the first time that the audio daemon seems to be mandatory for very basic functionality.
Yes it does. Last video cards I bought were an ATi Radeon HD 4550 and (years ago) a GeForce 3. Both worked perfectly for me (after downloading drivers).
I have two Sound Blaster Live! cards at home that I also purchased at Best Buy, that also worked without issue.
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
No, I hit a bug in the filesystem. It *does* happen from time to time, believe it or not.
ROFL, "panics don't depend on which filesystem you intend to use"... your 6-digit UID would suggest you're not a newb, and yet that comment is so silly it seems to suggest otherwise. The contradiction is puzzling yet fascinating.
Sorry sometimes my english is not good enough and i get misunderstood. I meant that bugs are everywhere in software, and if you change your tools whenever you bounce on the first bug, you are a leecher who doesn't give anything back to the community.
Choose the right tool for your task: that said, help improving it as you can; testing and reporting the bug, for instance. Or we will end up with a very solid general purpose filesystem and no specialized one.
I'm aware of that. I don't care. Slow delete in Myth 0.21 works around the issue for ext3 and works perfectly fine. [...]
Ok, your choice. It's like when you completely flawed the schema design underlying your application, and try to fix things in the business logic. Again, your choice.
But it does dump.
I was taught to respect my elders. The trouble is, it's getting harder and harder to find some.
Well, I've never had a problem like that with configs... But then again, I don't use GNOME.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
http://torrent.ubuntu.com/
Standard ubuntu is under 'releases'.
Cheers.
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
There are also metalinks available for download. They are a bit hidden, so I've posted the links on my blog http://log.logfish.net/node/68
I've done installs of Ubuntu on a virtual machines a couple of times but my initial experiences led me to stay away because I really like the development tools in Ubuntu and development really isn't Ubuntu's core strength - the end user desktop is or was. Installing dev tools felt like a right pain the behind and the fact that they didn't seem to allow let alone encourage custom kernel compilation put me right off. Fair enough I thought. I'm a geek I can stick with something else.
However pushing a release of an end user system like this that corrupts large files is just fucking moronic. I'm dumbfounded. Add allegations of pushing cloud computing shite to the mix and I'm giving Ubuntu a wide berth for now. This only confirms that i want to find another distro. Centos and Debian are looking to me like the leading distros for a geek to use, though I haven't checked out some of the others for a while. I don't hear as much about Mandrivel and SUSE these days.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I meant that bugs are everywhere in software
Conversely, if the tool you choose doesn't have wide use in the community (like, say, a niche filesystem) you're far more likely to encounter bugs.
, and if you change your tools whenever you bounce on the first bug, you are a leecher who doesn't give anything back to the community.
Bullshit. I've been in the Linux community for over a decade. I've written OSS, I've contributed to projects, and I've filed my fair share of bugs. But when I have a project that needs finishing, I'm not going to waste my time testing other people's code while living with a flaky system. I'm going to switch to software that *works* so that I can move on with my life.
Or we will end up with a very solid general purpose filesystem and no specialized one.
So what? XFS and JFS are *meant* to be solid, general purpose filesystems. They're just not, due to lack of acceptance.
Frankly, I disagree with your premise. I don't believe there *is* a need for special-purpose filesystems, unless the underlying devices require it (for example, log-based filesystems are useful for solid-state storage).
It's like when you completely flawed the schema design underlying your application, and try to fix things in the business logic. Again, your choice.
When the alternative is kernel panics triggered by the "right tool" (as you put it), what other choice is there? You could, like a sucker, live with the instability. But I use Linux because it works. If I wanted an unstable operating system, I'd use Windows. So instead, I switch to the actual "right tool"... that being, the one that works without my system crashing every frickin' night.
Now, maybe you have a bunch of free time on your hands and like the idea of debugging other people's broken code. And if you do, hey, more power to ya. But some of us have better things to do with our time.
To clarify, I should emphasize my appreciation for the existence of Kubuntu and the Kubuntu maintainers.
I guess the main thing I'm griping about is not the actual work they've put into KDE 4, but the decision of management of Kubuntu to drop support for KDE 3. Things that worked before no longer do (networkmanager is one but not the only one). In fact, if they put NO changes into each succeeding version of (the KDE 3 version of) Kubuntu from 8.04 onward, but still released an updated KDE 3 version each time, it would still be helpful (we'd benefit from non-backported packages to Ubuntu in general). This would relieve the Kubuntu maintainers of the pressure of scrambling to fix KDE 4 software issues, and give them more time to work on things that the adventurous can try, while the rest of us have a KDE 3 distribution that is staid and "just works" at the expense of not being the newest flashiest thing.
Having said that, I am looking into trying to get a quick and easy "DBus-tool" command-line util (probably Python-based) running, to replace that easy-to-use, powerful and versatile "dcop" command that was for KDE 3. That would be my contribution to KDE 4, but having about 1 hour of free time per week to devote to this doesn't help, and probably someone else will write the util before me.
But I can't use KDE 4 until I figure this out (too many of my scripts rely on "dcop klipper klipper GetClipboard" or whatever the command is for retrieving text), so I need to figure DBus out before moving on, and if I work on this, might as well get a bunch of people to benefit from it. See? I *do* want to use KDE 4, but it has to "just work" like my KDE 3 setup.
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Meanwhile, you still haven't explained the advantages of putting /home on a separate partition.
/home on a separate disk. Actually, two of them, in a RAID 1 pair. I like taking /home with me if I need to move to new hardware or whatever -- plus I don't trust installers and upgrades to leave it alone. And if you do a lot of I/O-heavy stuff (reading and writing those large video files in a $HOME subdirectory, for example) then you improve overall system performance.
I put
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
Why is LTO so fracking expensive? I've never seen a more out-of-whack market for tape capacity vs. disk-size. $4500 for an LTO-4 from Dell. Insane. Nevermind the $50/tape per unit charge. I almost *AM* better off using hard drives as disposable media.
I could get 45 TB of external storage for backing up my 1TB of data for that price. Insanity.
$1000 for LTO4 I could understand. $1500 might be the top-end of what I pay (as a SOHO).. $4500 is a non-starter.
I have. I somehow got one SUSE 9.3 YAST repository confused on with a 9.1 installation, and some major change to Gnome borked the entire setup. A quick purge of / (but not /home /data) and an upgrade to OpenSUSE 10, and I was back in business.
/apps for those applications I build myself (self-contained apache usually, with nothing in /usr or /etc)
And I have a
If you chose not to have a separate /home and use upgrades rather than fresh installs, that should work reasonably well.
That doesn't mean there aren't significant advantages to using a separate /home partition if you want to put in the effort. All you have to do is remember to move your user directory (e.g. to user-old) before doing the clean install, and you have all the advantages of a clean install without having to backup and restore your files.
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
UbuntuOne, to strip away all the fancy words, is a 2gb (free version, $10/month for 50gb) of online storage linked to your Launchpad account (used for Ubuntu Forums, bug reports, and other community activities). Similar to ftp, but is secure and allows you to have a friends list such that files and folders can be marked for sharing to specific individuals for either read only, or read/write. In addition to that, any computer with Ubuntu (Jaunty or Karmic+) can have ubuntuone-client installed which will add a directory in your home folder called "UbuntuOne" that will automatically stay synchronised with the files online. You can connect as many computers as you like to that online account. Only one UbuntuOne account can be linked per user.
I for example, have a computer at home, and a computer at work. My current projects are stored in my UbuntuOne directory so at work or home I have access to the same files locally and backed up in three locations automatically in addition to being able to use a web browser to get the files wherever I go. I had used Google Docs, which still works great, but it requires constant Internet access. With UbuntuOne I need only enough Internet access to sync my files when I am done.
As a teacher, in my classroom I have 4 computers with Ubuntu (2 dual boot windows, and 1 dual boots MaxOSX). On the Ubuntu side have a classroom UbuntuOne account all the computers connect to. If a student saves their files on one machine it is automatically backed up online and then to every other computer "in the cloud" Then any computer a student chooses to use will have all their files on it. If a computer is off or not running ubuntu there will be a delay in the sync, but as soon as it is switched back, the files get sync'd and they are good to go. Before I used sshfs and a central machine. It only worked when the computer was on, and though never had any problems, there was no redundant storage. It worked "ok", but UbuntuOne is really the "right" way to be doing it. While it is not necessary, each student could have their own accounts and share files with each other as desired; that is just more than is needed.
Want Big Business out of government? Take away the incentive and start by getting government out of big business!
Then WTF is Ubuntu doing? Or what are you doing? I have had 64-bit Flash support in Debian for almost a year now. Ubuntu has had two releases to get in sync with their base distro.
Mart
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
Remember kids: Asking critical, honest questions is trolling!
Way to ignore the points i was making with butthurt hyperbole. Stay classy.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Hi moderators!
Did you know that asking critical, honest questions isn't trolling? Yeah, and the mod for troll does NOT mean "I Disagree/Uncomfortable Truth". If you want to bury comments that disagree with your religious OS affiliation, go to Digg.
i wasn't trolling. i was pointing out that *nix hasn't caught up to Windows on some fields. Even WINE can't run everything. The driver support for *nix hasn't caught up. It's still a tiny market share, so switching to it exclusively would seriously cut my options in hardware, software and interacting with other users.
Nothing i said was even insulting to *nix or it users. So it wasn't even flamebait.
Mod points aren't meant to be used for censorship or retaliation against someone who disagrees with you.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
Otherwise, you may fall victim to old config files that no longer work with the new applications, etc (I've had that happen with Gnome on more than one occasion).
I've had a persistent /home partition for the last five years, and have never encountered this, but I typically use kde so your mileage may vary
Ubuntu makes computers possible for the bottom-of-the-barrel folks and keeps it flexible and powerful for experienced users.
The bottom-of-the-barrel influence is strong though, long since to the point where it inconveniences advanced users even of other distributions by them convincing maintainers to do silly things
Prime example, the X11 zap command.. is now completely disable by default, you have to manually enable it in the config, now, considering you'd mainly want to use it when x11 has shit itself and you have no control (or just want to kill it real quick for some reason) it's pretty useless to have to enable it AFTER you want this quick access to it.
Why was this well established command removed? some silly laptop user using ubuntu bitched about accidentally managing to hit ctrl-alt-backspace.. well now they know not to hit that combo don't they.
People are entitled to run what they want to run, I just hate it when noobs screw up something that's functional and has worked well for decades.
If up to date is what you're after, fedora seems to be the only extreme bleeding edge distro out there atm, I mean ubuntu is just doing ext4 now, fedora has done it since april.
The command line equivalent is "sudo do-release-upgrade", fyi.
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
Real Netbooks are devices like the SmartQ5 and the SmartQ7
Basically Microsoft took the Netbook, added a disk and forced it onto the market through big-name h/w vendors.
The driving force was sales - and profit.
It was a rout - and the geek ought to be honest enough to admit it.
Instead he will - once again - redefine the netbook as a product - the mobile internet device, the MID - that sells at a price point he knows Intel and Microsoft cannot match.
The cheapest 10" Win 7 SE netbook at Walmart.com is $300 with 1 GB RAM and a 160 GB HDD.
For the SmartQ7:
smartdevices smartq 7 7.0 inch touchscreen linux mid internet tablet 667mhz cpu $300 US
The big box retail price in the states should be cheaper, I suppose. But by how much?
Does anyone know if mplayer or vlc or any other media players will have vdpau or hardware acceleration installed by default in this version of Ubuntu? It was supposed to be in Jaunty but never was. I could compile it myself but it's a pain in the ass and I just want the system to work out of the box. I just want to double click on my 720p and 1080p mkv files and have them load and run smooth without manually adjusting 80 different settings, compiling my own player, and doing a jig while crossing my fingers and praying to our Noodley overlord to get it to work.
Well i guess the Ubuntu will lose the Windows 7 release.. Even Linus approves it.
But he is saying that Windows does eat Sh*t. (sorry to all those burrito lovers out there)
There's no reason whatsoever to reinstall.
Three words, Third party repositories. Your upgrade should go fine and dandy when you've only used official repos, but when extra repos are in the mix it's best to not even try it.
Same deal with custom installed things, while they are usually cleanly in a different prefix like /usr/local it's always good to blow away all of your custom bits and configs to either leave it if no longer in use, or try again with the latest version to make sure it all still works.
My /home has been consistent for about five years now without issue, last time it was blown away was a new drive ago. I agree that if you don't screw with things too much upgrades should be fine.
But fact of the matter is, we are linux users, we do strange things like bake our own binutils/gcc for different platforms from scratch, compile kernel modules that haven't went mainline yet for some specific piece of hardware and other such nonsense. This is why I keep /home seperately :).
For the longest time I thought everyone knew that nvidia were the only real option so far as linux 3d is concerned (intel is good now I know, but it used to be shite also)
Thanks for the heads up. I've finally got 9.04 working, sort of (sound acceptable to my daughter, plus DVD, plus fully functional non-YouTube videos again - esp. Vimeo and Rachel.MSNBC.com) and so feel very disinclined to dork with it. My family hated me for three days after I "upgraded" from 8.04 -> 8.10 -> 9.04. Getting it all right again took weeks.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
... with a disco ball, fog lights, neon tubes, and ... some drivers...
No sig for now.
Everything looks OK so far...
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
MSI - Wind Netbook with Intel® Atom(TM) Processor w/ 2GB RAM and 6-Cell Battery - Black. That was the first result googling 2gig netbook.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I have been using debian for years. But, I would switch to Ubuntu, if there is some good reason to do so.
10GB is probably a good number to have, been running less than that for years, but then again I'm not quite an average user. It's handy to have home on a separate partition, I've had the same /home for 5 or 6 versions of Ubuntu, means I can upgrade to the next version (i like to keep up with the latest to see where Ubuntu is going) in under an hour and not have to re-set everything up again. Simple case of install, add a few apps that I need that aren't installed by default and get back to work.
/ /boot /home
/dev/mapper/system-root 6.9G 4.5G 2.1G 69%
/dev/sda1 449M 79M 346M 19%
/dev/mapper/system-home 67G 22G 45G 34%
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
Three words, Third party repositories. Your upgrade should go fine and dandy when you've only used official repos, but when extra repos are in the mix it's best to not even try it.
Bah.
I ALWAYS have third-party repositories in the mix, and custom-installed packages (usually from DEBs I built myself). It's really not an issue.
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Your mileage may vary, and I'd bet breakages aren't common, but long ago circa 2000'ish after a severe breakage I swore never again, and while I'm sure it has improved why bother taking the risk no matter how small when a fresh install will always work no matter what?
Whenever someone brings up switching to Linux, people frequently claim they can't make the switch because doesn't run on Linux. Photoshop, the latest DirectX games, etc.
Of course, most people get computers to perform tasks such as editing photos or playing games not to play with the OS.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
r200 cards should work fine using the open source driver. I used to have one. Ati (or AMD) has stopped supporting it with their proprietary drivers (they do that a lot, they just stopped supporting my new r430-based card!), but the open source driver should get the most out of r200 and r300 cards, and nowadays r400 and r500 too. If you really want to use fglrx with your old Ati card, you need to get an ancient version from Ati's website. Ubuntu isn't going to offer old fglrx drivers based on your card model, because they typically wouldn't be compatible with new kernels and XServers.
It would be nice if the Ubuntu installer by default created a seperate /home partition.
The problem with defaults is different people want different defaults. My preferred default is to be asked if I want a separate /home partition or want to use one that is already created.
I am typing this on my Mac currently running Leopard. I'll upgrade to Snow Leopard, do a clean install that is, then install Ubuntu to dual boot. Yy hard disk is already partitioned into 3 partitions, one for OS X, one for /home, and one for Ubuntu. I have Leopard installed on it's appropriate partition, my users are on the /home partition and I'll install Ubuntu on it's partition. When I do install it I want it to ask where to put /home. This would be easier than it would be for me to edit fstab, I've never done it before and would be pissed if I screwed up. Of course I'll have to use chmod, which again I've never done, and edit permissions so the user files can used in both OSes.
But it sure does make it easier to keep your data..
Yeap, I agree bigtime. I'll go ahead and clone the /home partition before installing Snow Leopard and Ubuntu, I've already cloned Leopard and made an external boot disk just in case, but it'd be nice if I could install them without nuking the data. One problem I've come across is that OS X adds metadata to files that Ubuntu doesn't have.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
suddenly you have to guess how much space you'll want in / and /home, and if you underestimate, you find yourself having to resize filesystems.
Why? With disks sufficiently large these day, just allocate 10GB for Ubuntu and take the rest for /home. For basic usage 10GB is overkill for applications, logs, etc...
Disks for desktop and tower PCs may be big enough for most uses but it different for laptops as well as special uses. When I got my laptop I got the biggest hard disk Apple offered, 160GiB. I replaced it with the biggest drive I found at that tyme, a 320GiB drive. As of right now I have the disk divided into 3 partitions, 2 30GB partitions for OS X and Ubuntu and the rest for /home. The user partition will fill quickly once I start scanning the photos I have on film. Some pro, even amateur, photographers have RAIDs setup with terabytes of photos.
If you don't trust that, simply use LVM. Really, this is childsplay.
For gurus and geeks perhaps but how many know what LVM is? I certainly don't.
Sorry but this, "this is childsplay", elitist attitude turns many off.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I downloaded the ISO for Kubuntu this morning, I hear nice things about KDE 4.3 so after 5 years Im finally switching back from Gnome.
When I was looking on the site and I found something amusing: Kubuntu Karmic Koala... KKK... I was thinking "Surely they saw this coming a while away!". I found it amusing. Now fingers crossed I dont get dependancy issues for Citrix client like last time (had to wait for a new version of the client last time).
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you still haven't explained the advantages of putting /home on a separate partition.
I was able to easily clone my /home partition. With a separate /home partition I can nuke the OS partition and not worry I'll lose all the data. There's another reason to have a separate /home partition. Currently I have the hard disk in my laptop set up with 3 partitions. The first partition has OS X installed on it. I'll install Ubuntu on the 3rd partition. And I use the 2nd partition for /home. Once I install Ubuntu I will be able to use the user files in both OS X and Ubuntu.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
No, if you do a full re-install, you're much better off backing up your home directory, then doing a full re-install and copying the files over that you want. Or, as I do, you just keep two partitions around, one with the old OS+home, and one with the new OS+home (after all, as you say, disks are huge these days), and just copy from one to the other on a major OS upgrade.
You ask why use a separate /home partition but them admit you use two yourself. Now why would you copy /home from one partition to another? If you use a separate /home partition you don't need to copy over old documents when upgrading.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Why is that surprising? It's less than you get with a Gmail account (albeit easier to use since you get a filesystem interface without hacks).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Cool. Can you point me to the apt repo for 10.4?
thanks
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
i'm guessing they are aiming at something like mobileme rather than dropbox. i have 3 ubuntu desktops right now and it would be truly fantastic if i had a way to automatically sync my settings and or home folders across all three...
I don't know about settings but home folders can be synced using rsync. Using cron a schedule to run rsync can then be created. Mind you, I don't know how to use either one but I came across them when researching and preparing to install Ubuntu on my Mac.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
They still don't seem to have fixed the PHP5 zlib bug that stops Wordpress auto-upgrade from working: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/451405 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/439407
Isn't Fedora the testbed for RedHat? Isn't that why CentOS exists, so RedHat stable can be used without the costs of trademarks? I wouldn't be surprised if Fedora used it: Fedora is meant to be unstable, isn't it? Or did Fedora fork into another project?
Intelligent idiots are we. | Evil men do not understand justice.
I was always running 2 monitors, and that seemed to be a never-ending battle re-configuring X.
You've had problems running dual monitors? I won't be doing it right away but when I can afford a new monitor I'll set it up as a second monitor. My main goal doing so is I want to do some development, graphics work, and photo editing. I'll use the big new monitor for what I'm working on and use an old monitor or the built in display on my laptop to hold all the pallets and tools.
If there's a problem do you know if it's with Ubuntu or KDE? I plan to install and run both Gnome and KDE. With KDE I want try Krita for photo editing, GIMP just doesn't cut it, to see if it can do what I'll want. Otherwise I want to try both desktops to see which I prefer.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
That may be, but in my experience it's actually the nvidia binary blob that has trouble with fullscreen flash for some reason. The intel driver (even older versions) and nouveau do just fine.
It actually asks, when you view a site using flash, if you want to download and install flash. Click yes and it does so. That's more user-friendly than the other OSes.
Let's examining what we have here:
May experience file corruption. So you're telling me that you're wiping your whole hard disk and re-installing, and you're scared that you'll lose your large data files, which you somehow magically don't have back-ups of? I mean, the combination of shit above is pretty fuckin' far out there. It's pretty much limited to video editing folks that decide today is a good day to stop fanboying Fedora and up and switch to Ubuntu's brand new release, on a brand new hard drive, and wipe the old hard drive right away to get rid of the Fedora disease they've been slaven to. Does that sound like ANYONE?
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In the common case, where the system hasn't been manually tweaked much, it just works. The only real downside is that some of your 3rd-party packages will get automatically removed and you'll have to reinstall them. For the average user, there's almost zero risk in upgrading -- and the only reason I toss the "almost" in is because I can't stand being absolutist.
In my case, I make lots of modifications to my system, and so there is some risk of breakage, but I also have the knowledge required to fix it. On the other hand, I know that if I installed from scratch it would take me a long time to get the new system configured the way I like it. It's easier to upgrade and then fix whatever tweaks got broken.
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Oh, so no one can just be a first time user, use the thing for a while, put a lot of stuff on there, and get bitten when they finally cross some wacky hidden threshold that Canonical buried on their website? Right I forgot, assuming everyone has backups is just how we do things...
Your way of thinking about filesystem reliability, while interesting, isn't that useful to anyone.
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.... if they are in the driving seat?
And tied all the passengers to the seats.
And some of the passengers even enjoy to be tied to their seats, or like them because is the only kind of seat they have seen before...
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I do know, and have updated a good amount of machines without any major issues (last time with no issues at all).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Since when is Fedora a metric regarding stability?
I used to work for one of those big commercial software farms that released the main product every 6 months. It got to be a clusterfuck. It's just not sustainable past a certain point. Ubuntu is maturing, someday Canonical too will feel the pressure, and you'll drop back to releases once per year. I think that's acceptable, some time to put in decent features, and yet leave yourself enough QA and bugfixing time.
I think it does that in Windows and Mac too, but on Ubuntu it won't let you perform the install without extra steps (unless I'm choosing the wrong packaging option).
The thing with complete reinstalls is that once you do a fresh install, you have to go out and install all of the additional apps you had on the old system, reconfigure various settings, things like that. Perhaps it's not too bad though if all that involves is 'sudo apt-get install program1 program2 program3... programN' after the clean OS install.
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
Heh heh! Oh, boy! PENISWORLD. PENISLIFE. Hah! Yea man, what a video.
Sure, in April of 2010...
I'm surprised GIMP doesn't do what you want.. I love it.
I print photos and while GIMP is fine for online work it lacks what many print artists demand. Like high colour bit depths. GIMP only offers 8 bits per colour channel, 24 bit total. PhotoShop does 32 bits per colour channel Supposedly GIMP 2.6 works with 16 bits per colour channel but in practice it doesn't. For professional prints CYMK is needed. That's comes standard in PS, GIMP requires a plug-in. GIMP also lacks other thing pro print photographers need. The digital darkroom forum at photo.net has some discussions on what photographers think of GIMP. Some like it, mostly for online work, and others don't like it because it does not do what they want or need.
On the two monitor thing, I ran them for years and LOVED it.
Same here. Years ago I was set up with dual monitors using Windows and Paint Shop Pro. A few months ago I bought a new LCD monitor I connected to my MBP, but I returned it. I've been looking at getting an HP LP2475w which has gotten good reviews from photographers. It may not be an Ezio, La Cie, or NEC monitor but it doesn't come with their price tags either. It's actually one of the cheapest LCDs with an H-IPS panel, currently about the best panels for graphics and photography.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
You don't have to do a fresh install, but some people prefer to. And doing a fresh install doesn't require losing your settings on any OS other from Windows.
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Aside from entering your password, I'm not sure what extra steps you're referring to. It's all done through a GUI and in just a few clicks. No browser restart required either. When it's done it reloads the page automatically and you have your flash content.
I think what's there is better than what IE/Windows does, which last time I saw was just direct you to a webpage where you download an EXE-based setup program. Downloading and running an installer, and clicking through all of its dialogs as well sounds like more steps to me. I'm not sure what Safari/MacOS does.
Xubuntu installs more RAM-consuming daemons than some other XFCE-based distro installs such as Debian's - see http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20090504#feature for a guide on how to slim down Xubuntu, resulting in about half the memory usage before starting applications. Distrowatch also did a similar guide on how to slim down the main Ubuntu distro here: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20081215#feature
You could also try Crunchbang, an Ubuntu derivative that uses OpenBox: http://crunchbanglinux.org/ - or U-Lite which is even lighter, or see this thread for discussion of Linux distros for 192 MB RAM: http://www.linux.com/archive/forums/topic/4908
I would've said Lesbian Lemur...
I believe on Ubuntu you don't automatically have authorization to perform installations just using your password. I believe you must use sudo.
No, you do have authorization just using your password. Otherwise the thing I described wouldn't work. As long as you're an admin user the Add/Remove programs app (or the new Ubuntu Software Center in Karmic), the Update Manager, and the plugin finder (which is just a specialized instance of the add/remove app or Ubuntu Software Center) will all pop up a password prompt to gain root when they need it. No command line work needed.
I'm not going by word of mouth here. It's my primary OS.
It's likely that by the time a newbie encounters something like this, it'll be fixed. Just statistical. Either that or it'll be total failure to burn a CD due to CD image corruption in /tmp.
Remember, every file system has weird bugs. The fact that someone stumbled across one doesn't make it any more significant; the fact that several someones did in a short time, however, does. Even NTFS on Windows has bugs, they're just sufficiently rare that they don't happen often enough for anyone to notice; seriously, if you find a random corrupt file, do you automagically assume there's a horrible deadly file system bug, if it never happens again?
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You amaze me, man.
How did you figure out how long the average newbie would go before hitting the bug? And how did you estimate the time to the fix? By saying "Remember, every file system has weird bugs", I'm sure you don't imply there aren't certain widely accepted standards for stability in a filesystem? Not zero bugs (an untestable condition), but on the other hand, not "we down to a dozen patches a release, and there are only a few open data loss bugs. Well, wait, there's another."... :)
Your ability to estimate dates and quality levels is no doubt fearsome. But there is an easier way: simply shipping with an ext3 default for another 6 months (or however long it takes until the code stabilizes to the appropriate degree for a filesystem). Most users will not even notice. This is the way you behave if you have any conscience - or if moral arguments don't appeal, if you care about your reputation, or want any repeat users of your products or services.
In case you are not keeping up, Linus Torvalds himself reported losing a filesystem to ext4 in a kernel bugreport last week.
This is just not a filesystem that is ready for primetime. And that is no slight on anyone - these things take time. For a filesystem, in particular, many years. Where I do have a problem is when some mean-spirited person is out there tricking people into using it before it's stabilized, without properly communicating the risks.
Risks which, if you can make the average Ubuntu user understand them, they would almost never choose to take.
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deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu lucid main
Not that i'd reccomend trying to upgrade to it just yet ;)
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IIRC it is not possible to skip a release ;)
It's not supported, that doesn't mean it isn't possible
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XFS is still prone to freezing (and thus data loss-- it can deadlock while updating a database file, forcing a system reboot) but people use that cruft in production. Apparently only one user noticed ext4 issues by the time Ubuntu shipped, and then there was Linus. Also as others have stated, Fedora has been shipping ext4 by default for some time; the sheer install volume of ext4 indicates that there isn't much of a problem. It's also notable that Ubuntu is shipping ext4 later than Fedora, which I guess is more conscionable; although not enough for your standards. I've been using ext4 for one full release (I switched just before upgrading to 9.04) with no issue, too.
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Yes, and Reiser was nuking people's data for years. He used to claim his FS was stable before his consistency checker was even finished. XFS was/is better by comparison, and neither are anyone's default filesystem. Obviously it's the default that matters, not what other options you offer (where presumably someone making an affirmative choice knows what they're doing, or will learn the hard way fast enough).
When talking about an mp3 player, and only one person out of 100 says "it crashed" then no one gets heated. When talking about a filesystem, someone saying "But I used filesystem X for two years and never lost data," and expecting that fact to matter, is really just saying "I do not understand how to discuss filesystem reliability." A 1/100 or 1/000 shot of data loss in filesystem-land is not a finished product.
It does seem as if Fedora switched to ext4 as a default in April. Good old Redhat. I remember back in the day when they switched to PAM while it was still in the low 0.# versions, and was barely functional or documented. Many a server needed a rescue CD after one of several rpm upgrades "disturbed" the pam configs and all authentication would then fail... But the sloppiness and race to the bleeding edge was just typical for them, and among Linux users at the time, it was hardly a scandal, just yet another headache, to be expected. IMO Fedora never made a serious effort to be usable by non-experts. I used to expect better from Canonical, but apparently not anymore.
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We're still discussing a problem you can't reliably or probabilistically reproduce without a large time investment. Like, you can't sit your ass down, right now, and install Ubuntu, and cause file system corruption by concentrated effort. I mean, not like "if I do X it breaks," but like just run a benchmarker that's nothing more than a huge file modify/md5 program (custom MD5 routine: read to a point where you're gonna modify, then create 2 MD5s, one using alternate blocks of data for 16k; then finish MD5ing across both files; then write the alternate blocks of data after a seek() and re-MD5 the whole file to see if it matches what it should be). Eventually after 24 or 48 hours of horrible torture, something should break, right?
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We're hardly starting at zero developing test cases for filesystems. A reputable OS shop will have a battery of them. As the state of the art in that field progresses, new ones are required continuously, since we keep finding new and interesting ways for a FS to fail. I personally have kept seeing many novel and amusing ones over the years. :)
I neither have test cases nor bug fixes for ext4. I only say that you should have a much, much harder time finding bugs, patches, and blog posts recounting stories of woe and data loss, before you decide a filesystem is ready for Linux's largest group of low-skilled users.
They do not care about the advantages of delayed allocation or nanosecond timestamps. But when their thesis or novel or day's video shoots go poof and our answer is some blame-the-victim nonsense about backups, or reading all the fine print... who wants this on their conscience, really? Especially when it was so easily avoidable, either by not taking silly chances, or warning more loudly not to trust us.
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