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Linus Torvalds For Nobel Peace Prize?
An anonymous reader writes "I'm as much of a Linux fanboy as anyone else, but I've never thought of anything in computing as being worth a Nobel Peace Prize. Apparently, there are those who take global collaboration seriously, though..." The suggestion has been bouncing around the Portland Linux community, where Torvalds lives. Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
I come from 2051, in a timeline where Linux didn't exist. You don't want to hear about the Microsoft vs Apple netwar.
I'm sure that at some point in his tenure as King of Linux he will do things worthy of the Nobel Peace prize. Let's just give it to him now to get it out of the way.
Perhaps we could better decide if we saw a list of Linus' global peace initiatives...
Gregor
There are real people making real change on this planet. While I like Linux as much as the next guy, this is not going to happen.
Richard Stallman is bristling with righteous indignation that this proposal was not for a co-nomination!
I can't say he is less worthy than Obama. Obama's biggest claim to fame is that he is not George Bush. Linus isn't George Bush either, so I guess his qualifications are in order.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
"Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?"
No.
Linus has certainly done more to deserve it than Obama.
Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
No. Next question?
You can advertise in this sig from as little as £99.99 a month!
Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
Why do you talk about it? Find someone in this list:
University rectors; professors of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology; directors of peace research institutes and foreign policy institutes;
Willing to Submit him for it and go back to coding. Don't go campaigning for some person to win the Nobel peace prize, call up your contacts at Washington University and discuss it with them. If you can't convince them to nominate him, it's probably not going to work.
This is not an elected award so I wouldn't waste my time trying to impose outside influence on a committee for a Nobel prize. The committee decides, not the community. I'm sure every profession has their savior/icon that they think deserves this award for revolutionizing something and altering humanity for the better. You're free to talk all you want but it's not going to change anything. Discussing it online is nothing but a waste of time unless your intentions are to embarrass Linus.
My work here is dung.
After all, he's not George Bush either. Or perhaps it's that he's not Bill Gates. *snark*
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
Not starting a nuclear war with Iran is technically doing nothing, but I still think it's a very, very good idea.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
If President Obama can recieve a Nobel prize for things he promised to do, within a year of when he started, then Linus Turvalds, who helped built the crucial basis for technology that will last as long as computers exist, should've gotten a prize almost twenty years ago.
Absolutely. Peace isn't merely politicians negotiating treaties, public-spirited volunteers planting trees, religious leaders preaching tolerance, or organisations raising money to save endangered species. Peace is an instrument towards achieving open-minded and open-hearted coöperation amongst people from a wide variety of cultures, ethnicities and countries working towards creating solutions for the common welfare. If anyone deserves the Peace prize, Linus Torvalds probably does. Or perhaps the open-source movement, as a whole. Software may not be as visible as loud activists and marching protesters, but it has achieved the kind of collaboration amongst interested private individuals and companies that the environmental movement or any of various well-meaning political groups can only envy.
Karma fed to this user will be promptly burnt. Be warned; be wary.
Linus didn't start a nuclear war with Iran either.
Nobel prizes are not decided by popular vote. They are not decided by wider discussion and consideration. There is no forum for public nomination. There are no public announcements of the candidates under consideration, even after the fact. Despite what kdawson might hope, he, and the rest of the people around Portland get no say in deciding Nobel prizes.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Not starting a nuclear war with Iran is technically doing nothing, but I still think it's a very, very good idea.
I didn't start a nuclear war with Iran either. Where's my Nobel Peace Prize?
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I've always been interested in seeing how computers get used in the far-flung parts of the world, and between OLPC and websites showing off pics of tribemen using Linux on laptops to check prices, weather info, etc., it would seem that Linux has made a difference both in the "developed" world as well as the places where computers may not be as prevalent.
Certainly it stands to reason that not everyone needs access to email, say, but everyone would like to know whether it's going to rain tomorrow, and there may not be a local radio or tv station to provide that info, but a computer with some sort of internet access could. So if I'm only going to use a computer once in a blue moon, or if I'm one who provides computers to folks who only need an extremely limited data set, why not be Linux? It's totally dependable and, most importantly, it's free. This is critical when the local economy may rely more on bartering and the exchange of physical goods for services; I can't imagine Microsoft would be willing to sell Windows for a few dozen eggs.
So yes, I'd be behind such an honor; the whole point of the Nobel Peace prize is to award people who have made other lives better, and providing the platform on which anyone, anywhere can build upon to provide anything, at the most local level, I can't see how this *doesn't* qualify.
It strikes me that a lot of good is being done by this body. Plus there's more to come. So it strikes me that Bill might be in line first, or maybe a shared one with Bill, Linus and Tim Berners-Lee or something.
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
peace prize no. There are prizes for science fields also, maybe they could figure out if he deserves one of them.
Neither did I! We're 3 for 3!
sigs... don't talk to me about sigs....
Certainly his contribution to humanity as a whole should be recognized in some appropriate way but I'm not convinced the peace prize is the right one.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Peace prize? They plainly haven't been reading the LKML at the Nobel Institute...
-- There are three kinds of mathematicians: those who can add and those who can't.
Does this suggest that Bill Gates and Paul Allen should also get the Nobel Peace Prize?
Their philanthropic efforts (while not making them deserve the prize) give them slightly more claim to one than Torvalds.
He's way to pushy and intolerant of differing ideals. Linus used what Stallman started, but Linus is more of the 'get it done with the right tools' type, than the intolerant idealism type. Linus' proper use of the tools, IMO is a much better method.
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
I know it seems a little far-fetched, but the globalization possible due to technology has caused a lot of conflict and strife in terms of politics, business practices, etc. The open source movement, which became prominent mostly through projects like Apache, Firefox, and especially Linux, is one of the best examples we have so far for the potential good of globalization--where people are coming together across the world irrespective of race, religion, or nationality and working toward a common goal for the greater good of the entire world (or at least the part of the world who benefits from their software). It's a model for the potential of global peace and cooperation.
Not saying Linus is by any means a shoe-in for it, but I don't think it's an absurd idea.
Linus didn't start a nuclear war with Iran either
...yet.
"Your job is being a professor and researcher: That's one hell of a good excuse for some of the brain-damages of Minix."
...
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
"Your problem has nothing to do with git, and everything to do with emacs. And then you have the _gall_ to talk about "unix design" and not gumming programs together, when you yourself use the most gummed-up piece of absolute sh*t there is!"
"When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows", people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got those with the system, *for free*'."
"My personal opinion of Mach is not very high. Frankly, it's a piece of crap. It contains all the design mistakes you can make, and even managed to make up a few of its own."
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people."
"Personally, I'm _not_ interested in making device drivers look like user-level. They aren't, they shouldn't be, and microkernels are just stupid."
And I didn't even get that far down the page.
Then again, if it was between him and de Raadt
Everyone knows KDE is better than Gnome. And really, Ubuntu isn't even a real distro. It's just Debian gimped and preconfigured.
run away! run away!
mmmm...forbidden donut
Wow, an informative comment with a useful link that allows the reader to verify your statements independently!
Are you sure you aren't really a time traveler from, say, 2001 or thereabouts?
A United Nations Public Service Award perhaps?
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
then why not Linus. At least Linus did not write a book and omit a few inconvenient truths.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
Stallman's working for social justice, freedom and equality. He gets chosen less often as a posterboy, but he's the one doing the really important work.
Linus is only popular because his style is convenient for IBM and the other megacorps. He goes with the flow, let's those with power do what they want.
Please help publicise swpat.org - the software patents wiki
Yes, Linus is worth of consideration, not only for his own achievements but also for what he symbolizes in the fight against Intellectual Monopoly. This is one of the great fights of our times... and the wealth-grab of widening intellectual monopoly is part of what makes the rich (nations) richer and the poor poorer. Nominating Linus for the Nobel Peace Price would draw needed attention to this fight.
Linux is an equalizer for the poor. I am involved in a project in Brazil where we take old (and usually broken) donated machines show local kids how to rebuild them and put linux on them. Dozens of kids who would not otherwise have been able to afford a computer or learn about technology have benefited from this. And there are thousands of such projects around the world, having made a huge difference at the grass-roots in many communities.
I heartily support Linus's nomination!
My thought exactly. I don't want to presume to speak for Linus, but I'd hope he'd be insulted by the thought of being awarded a Nobel Peace Prize, since the track record of its awardees (not just Obama, he's merely the most recent example) shows that the prize itself is meaningless at best.
Be who you are...and be it in style!
He did quite a bit of work, then gave it away because he thought it was best for his work and thought others would like to play with it. He puts the technology first above everything. He's not going to become insanely rich, but we as a global society should reward him in some way. Not sure peace price is right, but it's not wholly wrong either. Maybe not just him, but RMS for the creation of the GPL. I'm sure there are others. We should reward people who put progress/technology/people/freedom before themselves and wealth. If we don't, what does that say about us? Isn't that how we want people to behave?
Greg Mortenson really deserves it.
http://www.gregmortenson.com/
Not starting a nuclear war with Iran is technically doing nothing, but I still think it's a very, very good idea.
George W. Bush didn't start a nuclear war with Iran and he didn't get a Nobel Peace Prize.
Also, keep in mind that Obama has a few more years in which he could start a nuclear war with Iran.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Technically true, but you're forgetting Linus' herring genocide of 1997.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
He created a project that fostered international cooperation and was essential to the expansion of the internet. It made thousands of embedded devices possible and freed computers from the shackles of proprietary operating systems. It made computing possible for millions of people around the world who otherwise would not be able to afford computers. The non-profit, collaborative model opened doors to connect computer professionals from all around the globe. He would definitely be one of the best candidates in 20 years.
Linus is certainly a better choice than a terrorist, like in 1994.
1. It's not like the tax-payer-funded bailouts.
2. You're not a too-big-to-fail corporate dick-head.
I know this is contentious, but I quite like being the devil's advocate. Isn't Bill Gates more suited to the Nobel Peace Prize?
His philanthropy is unparalleled (by monetory value alone, anyway). His influence on the world of computing is undisputed. I'm not saying his influence has been good or bad... just that he's had influence. The world wouldn't be the same without Windows. Regardless of which operating system you favour (for me, it's a tie between OSX and Ubuntu), you cannot deny that Windows has been an important component in the spread of information and education across the world, and enabled all kinds of communication.
A lot of this stuff would have happened anyway, without Windows... but then I could argue that the US civil rights movement would have happened at some point without Martin Luther King (a previous Nobel Peace Prize winner).
He's managed to foster a global community (fractious and contentious though the wars between distributions may be) and I don't think that anyone can argue that a typical open-source developer conference looks a bit like the UN with all the disparate countries and cultures coming together to work on a common project.
Linux and the GNU bits have been picked up as THE standard for computing in low-income countries and regions - How many systems targeted at getting the poor, underdeveloped, etc. on the net are running Linux distributions under the hood?
I say give it to him -- seems like the above is worthy of recognition IMHO.
/~mikeg
If he actually did win the prize, wouldn't there be strife if they mis-pronounced his name?
The Obama peace prize meme is really annoying. I don't think it was a great idea to give the prize to him but it the idea that we don't give nobel peace prizes to people to encourage/support/recognize potential work is just wrong. For example, the 1935 prize went to Carl von Ossietsky for his journalism and peace activism against the Nazis. He had at that point done very little to stop the Nazis. And we all know how well he actually succeeded. Not at all. But that prize was completely reasonable. There's a long history of giving the prizes to people who promise future work.
Carl von Ossietsky did not receive the peace prize for "potential work". he received the prize for the work he had done publicizing the German violations of the Treaty of Versailles and for speaking out against the Nazi Party. He received the prize for actions he had already taken, even if such actions had been ineffective. Please try again to provide an example of someone (other than Obama) who received the Nobel Peace Prize for actions they had promised to take at some indefinite time in the future.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
This could be a very historic moment!
It could potentially be the first time the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to a (benevolent) dictator! I'm pretty sure that still qualifies him as somehow politically active.
In all seriousness though - Linus' contribution was definitely revolutionary, and has changed the world in a very positive way. I can't imagine what evil regime I would be stuck working for if I hadn't started playing with Linux so many years ago.
If Linus were to win the prize, I would imagine that he should probably put the funds back into a charitable organization, since there are and were countless numbers of others who have made substantial contributions to the evolution of his kernel as well.
Maybe he could rename it the Han Solo Award and give it back to the Rebel Fleet.
... he did something real in the last (almost) 20 years even if I don't know if he contributed to bringing peace to this world in some way.
For sure one can think about it and create some compelling arguments to support that cause so why not? Linus for Nobel!
What wars has Linux stopped? What international dispute has Linux settled? What starving group of people has Linux saved? Nominating Linus because of Linux for the peace prize is really stretching it. Igor Sikorsky never received a Peace Prize, and he was fundamental in the development of the helicopter, which has DIRECTLY saved thousands of peoples lives. Linus might be worthy of some other prize, like the Millennium Technology Prize, but never in a thousand years does his development of Linux or inclusion in the Open Source movement qualify him for a Nobel Peace Prize.
... wait until the Chrome OS PC comes out.
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
What's needed is a Nobel Prize for Computing that recognizes important contributions to advances in digital technology.
Linus should win that, though probably after Tim Berners Lee, Jef Raskin, Douglas Englebart and others who've made as important contributions as Linus receive it first.
Man I'd do it just to watch Ballmer's face change colours. In widescreen HD.
But seriously, why not? He's enabled the less fortunate to participate in a world-wide community. It doesn't have obvious effects, but it is no less important a contribution
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
I'm a big fan of both Thorvalds and Obama, but I don't believe either of them deserves a Nobel Peace Prize... yet.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Linus for the Nobel Peace Prize? No way. Look at the Millennium Technology Prize instead.
What we need here is our very own prize awarding institution.
Then instead of sneering at the dumb choices of a bunch of dozy scandinavian academics we can employ the wisdom of the slashdotcrowd, which as we all know, is way smarter than the average crowd.
The existing categories of the Nobel Prize are a tad limiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_prize so I suggest we will need a call for categories to begin with.
It goes without saying that the prize is just kudos - no cash - and that nominations are of course free as in beer.
Well I suppose for the publicity photos there may be a small Gnubell made out of something standard - titanium alloy springs to mind...or of course transparent aluminium but that will be free too.
Posts, MyBio or Sig, may contain satire, sarcasm, bolded nouns be sardonic or even witty & be Church of SD
I haven't heard any speech from Linus Torvalds. What makes him worthy of NPP?
Eclipse PDE and Me
Nobel Prizes are for basic science research (at least the science ones are). No way Linus is worthy of a Peace Prize. There is already a prize that would fit him though - the Millennium Technology Prize. Although it seems everyone forgot it already, Tim Berners-Lee won this two years ago.
It might be considering how widely used Linux in the sciences. As a meteorology student I have seen how the software that both the government and academia uses are Linux-based. A prime example is the NAWIPS software package. Who knows how many other scientific advances are being done on Linux.
Usually awards elevate the status of their recipients. However, if Linus Torvalds were to win the Nobel Peace Price, the association of Torvalds with that award would serve to rehabilitate the image of the Nobel Peace Prize and diminish the status of Linus by associating him with the likes of Yasser Arafat, Al Gore and Barack Obama.
Past Nobel Peace Prize recipients proclaim loudly and incessantly that they are saving the world while doing nothing or causing actual social harm. Linus has made a significant, definite and postive impact and modestly describes his role and accomplishments. He has exactly the wrong credentials for that award and is the ideal anti-candite for it.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
I'd hate to see the guy who calls his co-opetition "masturbating monkeys" get a peace prize. :)
That aside, I firmly believe that the GPL is the reason for the success of the Linux kernel and of GNU/Linux. Compare the success of Linux and GNU/Linux to other systems which are more stable and have better documentation (like OpenBSD). There are many reasons why this might be, but I think that there would have been far fewer contributions to the Linux kernel if its license did not provide equal access for all contributors. A substantial part of Linux was written by commercial entities who would undoubtedly not be willing to invest in a product which their competition could build upon without contributing likewise in return.
We all owe a tremendous debt to RMS that I doubt will ever be repaid.
Agreed. Those were my thoughts as well. Stallman's insight to see what was coming and draft the GPL has contributed immeasurably to the freedom and variety in the current software landscape. I honestly think it was a stroke of genius to use Copyright law itself in such a way as to create a code base that cannot be bought-out/subverted by corporations. Stallman had the vision to make it possible.
Is there no prize for lifetime achievement in progress of humanity? Especially technological one?
That would be much more appropriate.
Linus is not exactly the peaceful guy. E.g. if you ever have asked him about his opinion on CVS. ^^
I respect him though. And only with standing behind even your strong opinions can you lead. Which he does, even if they are not nice.
But peace is not exactly the right word here. ^^
I think even Linus would agree to that.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
I think if they tried to do it RSM would have a fit.
So unfair. All true Linus fans know the herring fired first.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
Torvalds has done more for peace than President Obama, who was nominated for the prize just a few weeks after taking office (he couldn't have done anything, still hasn't, and won't). In fact, Obama had a chance to do something for world peace -- get US troops out of the 150 different countries they're in. He didn't. He's actually expanding US-imperialism. Thus, he's done plenty for world discord, not peace.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
But while Linus, RMS, Eric Raymond, Bruce Perens, Tim O'Reilly, Brian Behlendorf, Paul Vixie, Mitch Kapor, Mark Shuttleworth, and Theo De'Rahdt are all exchanging ideas, sometimes harshly, they are not exchanging bullets. I'd say they all have a lot to teach politicians.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
The example that Eric Schmidt stated to the New York Times was that Tim Berners Lee should have been given a Nobel Prize, but the Nobel community doesn't consider computer science to be in the same spectrum as other traditional life or physic sciences. I think both Tim is without question worthy of a Nobel, and there's a strong case for Linus as well, but it's questionable whether either has the political clout to win.
Actually, if you happen to be part of the forum called "parliament" or "congress" you can in fact nominate...
These people may nominate candidates for the Peace Prize:
According to the statutes of the Nobel Foundation, a nomination is considered valid if it is submitted by a person who falls within one of the following categories:
Members of NATIONAL assemblies and governments, and members of the Inter-Parliamentary Union
University PROFESSORS of history, political science, philosophy, law and theology, and university presidents and directors of peace research institutes and institutes of international affairs
Members of the Permanent Court of Arbitration at the Hague and of the International Court of Justice at the Hague
Members of Institut de Droit International
Former Nobel Peace Prize Laureates and board members of institutions that have previously been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize
Present and past members of the Norwegian Nobel Committee
Former permanent advisers to the Norwegian Nobel Institute
When Harry S. Truman, Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler got nominated.
On a bright side, Hitler's nomination was withdrawn AND it took place before the WWII.
Stalin and Truman got their nominations after the WWII.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Who has any respect for the Nobel prize thing after mr Obama got the prize?
Anybody who takes a ral look at what he is doing sees that there is no real change, no real peace, and even more war stuff. (any columbian bases, anyone? iran? iraq? afghanistan? support for israel?)
Not lessening his number of bases, war spending he makes a bad peace impression.
Linus should refuse the prize.
As President Obama.
Linus seems unlikely to win the award because he is not a "Goodist." Even if you do agree with the Bret Stephens's characterization of the majority of Nobel Peace Prize winners as "Goodists" be sure to catch his October, 12 column in the Wall Street Journal for the Onionesque but factual photo caption "Japan agrees to outlaw war in 1929, shortly before invading Manchuria."
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
I don't think it was a great idea to give the prize to him but it the idea that we don't give nobel peace prizes to people to encourage/support/recognize potential work is just wrong.
Recognize potential work? That sounds strange to me. I guess I'm used to getting rewards based on something I actually HAVE done, not something that I said I MIGHT do ... if I feel like it and if it's popular at the time.
[...] Carl von Ossietsky for his journalism and peace activism against the Nazis.
Ah-ha. He did journalism and peace activism. He did a lot more than give a few speeches while campaigning for a political office.
And we all know how well he actually succeeded. Not at all. But that prize was completely reasonable.
So the potential work, while encouraged and supported, never happened? Strange thing to reward. But he did do some actual work, right? More than speeches or writing two books about himself?
There's a long history of giving the prizes to people who promise future work.
You mentioned one... and he was already involved in doing his work ... one counts as a "long history" I guess?
Moreover, Obama's win was a real accomplishment as the first black US President.
Then he should get a marketing and PR award. Being the first black US President is not a qualification for a peace prize (or shouldn't be) and it should not have been a qualification for being President. The fact that so many people complain about those racist bigots that dare to disagree with the first black President are only displaying one thing to me: they are so racist that they can't see past the color of his skin and think it's his most important trait. I happen to not care that he's black. Somehow that's racist now. All this time I thought I was supposed to treat blacks and whites equal. I guess not. Sorry, that was a rant that came out of your comment - there's nothing inherently wrong with being the first black President. But there's a lot wrong with voting for him just for the sake of that.
Also as a matter of international peace having a US President who doesn't think that bombing everything is a solution and doesn't go to war due to Biblical verses,
Yup, Bush did nothing but bomb many, many countries. Aside from fulfilling a lot of his campaign promises within his first year of office, that is. And aside from the fact that we were attacked before we went to bomb (unless you buy into conspiracy theories only when it's about a President you don't like). And aside from the fact that he actually viewed the terrorist wackos for what they really are - terrorist wackos. And besides, Obama can't seem to make up his mind about anything, not even about the war in Afghanistan that he said he supported and would finish. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he typically referred to winning, just "finishing." What I am hoping to not happen is another Vietnam.
So even if accomplishments were necessary Obama had them.
He talked a lot. What's he done so far? He still supported the war in Afghanistan, presumably, just not Iraq (and by the way, a lot of Congress supported the war in Iraq along with Bush). I had no idea that having a proper Biblical hermeneutic was a qualification for the Nobel Peace Prize, maybe I should try out for it? I still haven't seen these accomplishments of Obama, aside from, as usual - he's not Bush (or at least, he's didn't talk like Bush while campaigning). He was nominated very soon after he was elected, as I recall, so the nomination even was based on his campaign. Because we all know that people are the most truthful while campaigning.
Finally, Torvalds has real accomplishments.
As opposed to whom? Obama
Linus, RMS, Eric Raymond, Bruce Perens, Tim O'Reilly, Brian Behlendorf, Paul Vixie, Mitch Kapor, Mark Shuttleworth, and Theo De'Rahdt are all exchanging ideas, sometimes harshly, they are not exchanging bullets. I'd say they all have a lot to teach politicians.
The FOSS movement has people collaborating at a scale that has never been seen before. The Internet make it possible, but would there be as much exchange of ideas if there was no FOSS?
You'll never be able to quantify how many people didn't die either because of information they got using a OLPC, or how many kids didn't grow up to become dictators because better information and communication defused their anti-social tendencies.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
They just gave it to a guy for NOT being George Bush!! Linus isn't George Bush, why shouldn't he get one too? Hell, put 'em on a roll and we can all wipe our asses with them for all they're worth...
... just saying.
Seriously, though, the Peace Prize is very political, and it would take a HUGE outcry of global public support for Linus or Richard to get any lip service.
The Peace Prize is often awarded to those who end disputes, perhaps the very same people who started them in the first place
If anything, ubiquitous computing is not a stabilizing force but a disruptive one, empowering people against governments by way of improving the exchange of information, and encouraging association. Think "flash mob". This may be a force toward renewed justice, but the process can be anything but peaceful.
In Liberty, Rene
This is the singularly most stupid thing I've ever seen on this site, and that is really saying something.
Eh, it's not so much the no nuclear war with Iran thing as the no nuclear war thing. The Nobel committee has always had a big thing about reducing/removing weapons/arms (ie the reason that Mr. nobel founded the committee).
So, there have been multiple cases of people winning the Nobel Peace Prize for just advocating a nuclear-free world, or removal of some other weapon. The fact that a US President, when he's under fire from most other places walks into office and says "I'd like to eliminate nuclear weapons", and then starts talks with the Russians in order to do so, and unilaterally starts removing spares from our inventory, the committee perked up a bit. I'm not saying that he absolutely deserved it, but rather that he did express beliefs, and act on beliefs that have been a long-standing Nobel committee soft-spot right after taking over the most powerful position in the world.
What about giving the prize to someone who has the power to withdrawal troops, but continues the wars? Get this: someone who is actively perpetuating a war gets a peace prize...
I thought Nobel laureates aren't arrogant bastards that get a hard on from dismissing people with good intentions?
Doesn't running Windows on top of OS X already provide additional reliability?
Is it worthy of wider attention and discussion?
NO!
Why bother
the nobel peace prize has entered the realm of farce (arafat, kissinger, and obama for smiling nicely) and has destroyed its legitimacy
of course, maybe the whole idea was doomed from the start as a flawed idea
perhaps the prize should be reconstituted as a way to recognize truly deserving underappreciated efforts, such as microlending in poor areas or water purification projects. in other words: no matinee idols or celebrities need apply. this would rule out deserving celebrities like nelson mandela, but it would also rule out the likes of kissinger and arafat. no more stunt prizes like obama's
a prize only for the truly anonymous makes a heck of a lot more sense actually in the realm of what it really means to labor for peace selflessly, which is true peacemaking anyways
so if not discontinued, the prize should be reconsituted with strict guidelines as a prize for the truly anonymous
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I do not question the important relevance in freely developed community software, but Linus is just one of the guys who participated. I admit, his contribution is one of the most hard hitting of them all but he didn't start it. If anyone deserves the prize it should be Richard Stallman. Without him, the Linux kernel would be useless without the rest of the GNU System.
exactly!
by threatening to send his wife (a six-time Finnish national karate champion) in to beat the stuffing out of any of the Peace Prize committee members who vote against him.
I'm pretty sure he could think of something useful to do with the ~$1.4 million in prize money, plus the international soapbox.
-b
No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
by making linux an open and free OS, he has enabled many developing and 3rd world areas opportunities that they might not be able to afford, particularly in this age of technology we live in. Look at all the initiatives like OLPC or providing surplus PCs to these areas, most if not all would be running some flavor of linux on them. I say that is pretty significant. That's a pretty big impact on that part of the world.
as many have said, he has a better claim than simply "not being Bush"...
that said, ever since they did that, I have a hard time taking the award even a little bit seriously anymore.
The fact that so many people complain about those racist bigots that dare to disagree with the first black President are only displaying one thing to me: they are so racist that they can't see past the color of his skin and think it's his most important trait.
Who exactly are these people that equate disagreement with racism? TV personalities? Politicians? Who exactly? This argument gets trotted out a lot, but I've never seen an actual person claim that people disagreeing with the president are racist. I may be woefully misinformed, but it seems to me that conservatives trot out this strawman because they want to make it seem like their views are being rejected due to strong-arming rather than plain disagreement.
Who cares about the Nobel Peace Prize? Would Linus feel honored or embarrassed to be in that company?
Technically true, but you're forgetting Linus' herring genocide of 1997.
I'm confused. The herrings were Iranian???
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
My thoughts exactly. I once saw Stallman talking about what he envisions for GPL and freedom of software in the future, and it really looks like he's aiming at a more collaborative and free society. Not only that, but he has taken positive and large steps in getting there, by turning copyright against itself and actively advocating free software and its benefits.
Genius indeed.
I see it as unfortunate that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. If he were more "accepted", his ideas would probably have an even stronger impact.
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
If this did go though, it would introduce all of the NPR folks to a concept they may never had considered before... 'Free' use of computers.
But, I think anyone who has heard both Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman both speak knows that Stallman is the heart behind the movement, and Linus is the one who constantly does that last bit and makes sure it actually works.
Really, they both deserve to get a peace prize, since neither of them would be where they are today without the other. I would suggest that it be given to Stallman/Linus as an entity, rather than to either of them individually. Then, Linus can drop Stallman's name off of his medal.
I'm not a bird, I'm a super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur!
Do you realize that the reason why Obama got this Peace Prize was because he was not Bush and yet he got elected?
It is a way to say to the US: we like the direction that you are going, we definitely prefer this direction to the direction the last guy in charge was taking.
I believe this is the case, it's not about Obama at all, it is about him not being Bush (and I agree with the Nobel Committee on this.)
You can't handle the truth.
Seriously.
If anything is going to help bring real peace to the world, it's changing people's selfish mindsets. Open Source is doing that. Slowly, people are coming to realize that doing good for everybody really is good for everybody, including yourself. This mindset shift will slowly extend outward beyond software, and may one day usher in a new age of cooperation and collaboration. Linus, as an early adopter of the mindset, and a vocal and active one, at that, HAS been instrumental. He's not the ONLY one, of course. Stallman, for example. But this is or should be based on actual results, actual impact, that the person has (or clearly will have), on the world. Linux is a household name. Yes, technically it is GNU/Linux, but the fact that none of the uneducated masses knows that says something about who has made the bigger impact. So, yes, I could back such an effort. Of course, honors are nice, and all, but the best way to say thank-you for all the hard work is to enable him to be even more influential in the future. Now, how could we do that?
You have misunderstood the purpose of the Nobel Peace Prize. In particular, you have not realized that it is mispelled. It is in fact, the Nobel Please Prize.
This is "please" as in "Please $WINNER, do stuff we think would be really nice.": "Please, Mr. Obama, do stuff we think would be really nice." or "Please Mr. Arafat, do stuff we think would be really nice." Oops, that last one didn't work quite as well as they hoped.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
...the oscar for best actor...
I'll give him that for sure...
Stallman is his own worst enemy. Somebody like Linus is easy-going, chatty and just generally a more likable fellow. Stallman sometimes comes off as a fanatic (it doesn't help that he looks like Rasputin).
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I think "not being George W Bush" is a perfectly cromulent reason to receive a Nobel Peace prize.
So Linus is like totally qualified on that account.
For that matter, where's my Nobel?
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The disapproval of Stalin here I definitely understand, but does the disapproval of Truman have anything besides the atomic-bomb call? I'd rehash the arguments, but this thread's not the place.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Because if I didn't have a viable alternative to Windows, sooner or later, I would have headed to Seattle and gone postal on the Redmond campus.
He couldn't tell, so Linus killed them all and let Poseidon sort them out.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
...but they now cost 1000x more than they should and they only do what robot warlord Steve Jobs thinks you should be able to do.
That is.... until the building of the great and powerful Death psyStar
Reply to That ||
More people need to recognize that Stallman has done more for free software than Torvalds.
Do you realize that the reason why Obama got this Peace Prize was because he was not Bush and yet he got elected?
Do you realize that Bush wasn't running?
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
As opposed to the recent recipient, he would have actually done something positive in the world at the time of nomination, which is in line with the purpose of the Prize.
He never even visits the local university. There's thousands of computer science undergrads here that could learn a thing or two from him!
I'm a big fan of both Thorvalds and Obama, but I don't believe either of them deserves a Nobel Peace Prize... yet.
What do you mean yet? I doubt highly that Linus is going to do something in the future that warrants the prize. Obama maybe, but that's expected so I still don't think he should get it.
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Really?
Have you seen the flamage on LKML?
If that's peace I'll take war any day.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
He hasn't done anything to deserve it, which seems to be the standard these days.
Technically true, but you're forgetting Linus' herring genocide of 1997.
But those were all red herrings!
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Seriously - I'm sure there are fairly prestigious industry prizes, but I can't think what the Nobel or Fields Medal equivalent is...
Oh, and we need the IgNobel equivalent, too - execpt most years I suspect the same person would get both :-)
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
The whole of my remaining realizable estate shall be dealt with in the following way: the capital, invested in safe securities by my executors, shall constitute a fund, the interest on which shall be annually distributed in the form of prizes to those who, during the preceding year, shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind.
[...]
and one part to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.
It's not "seeing as far as my nose". It's in the fundamental mandate for the Nobel Peace prize.
Personally, giving a prize for what someone might do is what's called "buying a pig in a poke". That is, you give before the goods are delivered. It doesn't work, but I gather that these days, the award is more about Norwegian politicians making political statements rather than world peace.
I guess my problem is that I don't watch talk-show hosts then. They pretty much uniformly produce debate at the level of an angsty teenager. In that regard, I don't find it surprising that such people would make stupid claims.
I can't say that I've seen much of that kind of talk on Slashdot, aside from people whining that they'll be called racists for disagreeing, which pretty much never pans out the way they'll claim. As far as the generic "people" are concerned, I've never met anyone making the racism claim in real life.
I hadn't heard anyone claim that Wilson's comment was anything other than rude, and possibly ill-informed. Doing some Google searches, it appears that some people have made the claim that it was founded in racism. So yes, that does support your claims.
Regarding the ABC's comments, while presidents have had death threats made against them, they are typically not accompanied by said people standing outside town hall meetings with weapons. Potok's comments, cited in the ABC article, and Carter's comments (IIRC) certainly can be categorized as supporting your claim. However, the context of their claims is that the level of hatred towards Obama far exceeds what one would expect from a typical president, especially one that's pretty much taken the ball from Bush and ran with it. Not that I agree or condone such an analysis, but its a bit more nuanced than outright saying "You disagree so you're racist."
As far as Jeneane Garofalo goes: yep, supports your claim.
The sum of my arguments is thus: You've convinced me that there are people out there that claim that disagreement with Obama is due to racism. You've also convinced me that such claims are mostly made by idiots or hacks, and in a few rare cases are more nuanced then claim. You've failed to convince me that such claims are occurring at such a frequency to stifle dissent, nor warrant the amount of whining from conservatives and Republicans (for the record here, Republicans are not conservatives).
"Behind every great man there stands a great woman."
If Linus is ever awarded the Nobel Peace Prize he'd have to hand it over to his wife who, if I recall correctly, was once a black belt karate champion in Finland. There's no doubt in my mind who keeps the peace in that family.
It is just the Linux kernel. It is a very useful and a good software product, but it is just a kernel... It is not that useful without a compiler to compile the kernel, or a shell to actually use it. The objective Torvalds had when coding that kernel was just for fun, he wouldn't expect it to save the world or anything...He is not the guy to match software with ideology or good intentions.
Not saying RMS deserves it either - no, he does not. The whole FOSS thing depends on the contributions of a lot of people, and there is no real "founding father" that deserves all that much credit.
Oh well, at least Linus definitely deserves it more than Obama.
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
If Linus hadn't started Linux, BSD would be in its current place. Linus did nothing spectacular or revolutionary. He was in the right place at the right time with his then-toy operating system, when AT&T was giving BSD legal trouble.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
:) yes
The point is that US people have rejected the idea of Bush by electing Obama. They could have elected the republican, but they did not. Of-course Obama may not be what people thought he was either, but it's a good try.
You can't handle the truth.
I think that pretty much anyone could get a Nobel these days if properly lobbied. Someone from the Open Source would make great publicity and bring momentum to the movement
First John Paul II is omitted, then Obama included, and now you want Torvalds?
A peace prize for global collaboration on a kernel? While impressive, the fact that Torvalds managed to harness the power of the free software community is far from deserving a peace prize. Not to mention it's not *he* who authored "Free software, free society". GPL and software freedom is means to improving "his kernel" for Torvalds, not necessarily a goal itself. That's what I gathered on the interwebs anyway.
In any case: be serious.
The difference between Linus and Obama is that Linus is a benevolent dictator for life! ;-)
It is given to an individual selected for contributions of a technical nature made to the computing community. The contributions should be of lasting and major technical importance to the computer field.
It isn't as famous as a Peace Prize, but it does recognize real accomplishment.
Stallman is his own worst enemy. Somebody like Linus is easy-going, chatty and just generally a more likable fellow. Stallman sometimes comes off as a fanatic (it doesn't help that he looks like Rasputin).
I think it would help a lot if he dropped the "GNU/Linux" naming thing (I'm not saying he's wrong (I'm not saying he's right either)); it's getting pretty old.
$ make available
I like what Torvalds has done, but after the Nobel Committee have awarded Peace Prizes to the likes of Arafat, Gore, and Obama I no longer believe they live in the same world as the rest of us.
Of course this is just my $0.02 worth.
The sum of my arguments is thus: You've convinced me that there are people out there that claim that disagreement with Obama is due to racism. You've also convinced me that such claims are mostly made by idiots or hacks, and in a few rare cases are more nuanced then claim. You've failed to convince me that such claims are occurring at such a frequency to stifle dissent, nor warrant the amount of whining from conservatives and Republicans (for the record here, Republicans are not conservatives).
I can agree with that. I am unfortunately part of a party - based on my conservative beliefs, not Republican beliefs - that whines as much as the other party. It's stupid.
As far as racism, there does - from my real life experience - seem to be a distinct racism in the name of being non-racist. Affirmative Action, IMO, is one big racist legislation: force people to be racist in an effort to combat racism. We can disagree and argue about it, of course.
Anyways: I agree, it's overblown and "my" side falls into the "one person from that party said some stupid racist comment, so the entire party must be thinking that" trap, too.
Oh, as far as Slashdot goes, maybe I should read at +5 or something. ;) hehe. Actually, slashdot *cough* nerds *cough* seem to tend to be liberal on most issues, but on some issues they seem to really "get it." Probably because they spend most of their time looking at text on a screen and not even seeing the other person's skin color or something, I dunno. I do recall some comments back in the campaigning that referred to racism, especially when Obama stated that racism would be used by the Republican campaign. Also, it does appear that many voters did vote for Obama because he was black... which I find to be racist... but it seems many on Slashdot don't think so. :)
I see it as unfortunate that he doesn't get the recognition he deserves. If he were more "accepted", his ideas would probably have an even stronger impact.
A shave and a shower wouldn't hurt in this regard.
Hey. If Obama can win it anyone can.
Obama had already done many things, including changing world opinion.
Polls taken around the world showed that the US was once again admired. Prior to him traveling around the world during the campaign, prior to his speech in Egypt, prior to his meeting with many world leaders, and prior to several stateside speeches declaring our change in foreign policy, polls taken about the US showed that the vast majority of the world did not view us favorably.
Changing the tone of the entire world's opinion isn't something to be taken lightly. Did he really deserve a noble peace prize? Well probably yes, given that the prize has evolved into more of an approval of someone's methods or actions, rather than recognition of actual physical change in a region or the world.
Now would I like to see the prize return to rewarding something more along the lines of a life's worth of concrete action? Yes and no. It is very important to reward the Mother Teresa's of the world, but I think it is equally important that the world have a means of approving or disproving of behavior.
The Nobel group isn't exactly the whole world, but they are orders of magnitude more neutral than something like the UN, or a specific set of countries.
You simply don't get to drop not one but TWO nukes on civilians and call yourself a peacemaker.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I can agree with that. I am unfortunately part of a party - based on my conservative beliefs, not Republican beliefs - that whines as much as the other party. It's stupid.
To be absolutely fair, my perceptions of whining may be due to confirmation bias. I don't think its possible to take a significant assessment of the total levels of whining and form some sort of baseline about whats acceptable. ;) Its just my opinion and, hopefully, I've made that clear.
As far as racism, there does - from my real life experience - seem to be a distinct racism in the name of being non-racist. Affirmative Action, IMO, is one big racist legislation: force people to be racist in an effort to combat racism. We can disagree and argue about it, of course.
Pretty much. My views on the above topics can't be lumped onto one side or another. AA is, in some ways, racist, and in other ways not. There's not some sort of racism-meter that you can use to figure out whether someone or something is immediately racist or not, so in some cases it boils down to context and interpretation. This has only gotten more difficult, as overt racism is in its death throws and systemic racism is starting to wither.
Anyways: I agree, it's overblown and "my" side falls into the "one person from that party said some stupid racist comment, so the entire party must be thinking that" trap, too.
Its a common line of thought, unfortunately, and everyone does it. I do too. Even if they claim that they don't, they do. Everyone has their biases. Whats important is that people approach the debate in good faith and willingness to address biases. Unfortunately, politics is poluted with people who are unwilling to do so. My distaste for talk-show hosts is because I feel that very few, if any, try to approach issues in good faith.
Also, it does appear that many voters did vote for Obama because he was black... which I find to be racist... but it seems many on Slashdot don't think so. :)
I think its supremely naive to think that no-one voted for (or against) Obama because of his skin color. I think there are quite a lot of black Americans that voted for him because they felt that another black man would represent their interests. I think that there are a lot of people who also voted for him because they wanted to be part of something historic, or feel better about themselves. I also think that a lot of KKK members probably voted for McCain due to similar reasons. However, some of the logic put out there completely over-estimates the contribution, to the point of out-right ignoring historical voting trends to insinuate some sort of mass racism (and, to be clear, I've seen this same approach used to support both positions: racism of white Americans and racism of black Americans). Speculating on the impact of the former may be the start of a good-faith debate, while the latter is simply intellectually dishonest.
Oooh, Oooh! [Citation needed]
how is babby formed?
As premature as that particular prize was, at least President Obama has "promoted peace conferences", which is in literal accordance with Alfred Nobel's will.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
in service to mankind for his long and unfaltering battle with the evil empire that is "Microsoft"? sounds like some folks over on the west coast are losing track of reality. Linux is cool, but I dont see how his contribution has made mankind better off.
Think about it: This is just a great idea! If we all start whining form the start that it's not possible, and he'll never get it and so on, then yes indeed, it will never work. If Luke Skywalker thought the same, we would still be stuck with te Evil Empire! Open source is simply great, it's just very unknown to users. If we even could get Torvald/Stallman on the nomination list, that would already be great for advertising the Linux phenomenon. I know open source is more than this duo, but it has to be given to someone, who acts as a representative of a movement. Their impact is huge, just look how many universities build on ideas they have developped, i'm not sure many 'professors' have achieved such a thing. Religion = f(believers) and as far as i can guess, there are millions of devoted opensource adepts. as i said we could start by getting them just on the nomination (long)list later on a real nomination might be possible. So let's not get cynical by our opensource heroes. If you're serious on offering help, let us now on vainmonkey@gmail.com (Subject: Nobel Prize) (by the way The nobel peace prize is awarded by the norvegians The nobel economy prize is awarded by the swedes so we'll have two horses to bet on !)
Also as a matter of international peace having a US President who doesn't think that bombing everything is a solution and doesn't go to war due to Biblical verses,
Yup, Bush did nothing but bomb many, many countries. Aside from fulfilling a lot of his campaign promises within his first year of office, that is. And aside from the fact that we were attacked before we went to bomb (unless you buy into conspiracy theories only when it's about a President you don't like). And aside from the fact that he actually viewed the terrorist wackos for what they really are - terrorist wackos. And besides, Obama can't seem to make up his mind about anything, not even about the war in Afghanistan that he said he supported and would finish. Unfortunately, I'm not sure he typically referred to winning, just "finishing." What I am hoping to not happen is another Vietnam.
the US invasion of Iraq was probably one of the worst choices made since Vietnam... wel actually worse than Vietnam, because Bush did know (at least should have known) what happened in Vietnam. But in case you haven't noticed, but Iraq not only already is a second Vietnam, before long you will wish it was just a second Vietnam:
1) Iraqs involvement in the 9-11 attacks were marginal at best.
2) There were no WMD.
3) US gets caught up in civil war between several parties wich only seem to agree on that the US is the bigger enemy
4) The invasion diverted forces from afghanistan, weakening the effort there.
5) The invasion fueled criticism that US wnat war against islam, further hindering efforts in afghanistan.
6) The was in Iraq is bleeding the US economy, each day the war goes on is a win for al qaeda
With no end in sight, and withdrawal would mean that the effort is wasted. Iraq is a huge sinkhole and the US is caught in it.
Point taken. I say let's vote up RMS & Linus as winners to share the prize.
Truth hurts?
Become a president first, then we'll talk.
I am not devoid of humor.
It'd be a darn sight better than newbies such as President Obama or terrorists such as Yasser Arafat . . . which is why it'll never happen.
Cranky educator.
and it only took one "masturbating monkey" comment.
If the day of granting awards to computer technologists is going to dawn, then...
Nobel Peace Prize to RMS for real change in the culture of producing quality SW by anyone
Nobel Economical Sciences Prize to Linus for the economical effect of Linux and Linux computers everywhere in the world
I think it's pretty fair to reward them both.
He should get a Nobel Asshole Prize.
I agree! Linus did a great job starting this, bringing people together. He should get this price NOT for him but for everyone involved in this opensource revolution.
Saludos, Anibal Ojeda http://anibalnet.nl
If anything it should be awarded jointly to FSF/rms and Torvalds. [Note: I'm just playing along, and not seriously hoping that this should happen. ;)]
Linus trovald was entitled to a nobel, therefore, many people can learn to develop operating systems and also uses the operating system free of charge. linux product of which has been developed is not lost either by non propitery operating system software. even more advantages, both performance and looks ...
why the hell is linus getting nominated? the real nerds know exactly what i mean. what about stallman? i wouldnt even mind if they gave it to shuttleworth.