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They could've made serious money if they had allowed the MiniDisc to be used as removable data storage for computers. It was tecnically brilliant and very compact for its time.

Imagine if they made such a product.

What about ATRAC players? I was playing that game in 1993 as I was lugging around my Sony MZ-1.

http://www.minidisc.org/part_S...

My first MP3 player was some sort of iRiver chunky thing with a hard drive. It was clunky and big and unattractive.

Now I just use my 5 year old LG phone.

So I went from being far ahead of the game to just using the cheapest old thing I can find.

But SP mode is compressed, isn't it?

"Standard ATRAC ("SP") is 292kbps, LP2 is ~132kbps, LP4 is ~66kbps"

Not that it matters all that much. I certainly couldn't tell the difference. It was one of the nice things about minidisc, in the days before MP3 players with decent storage capacity.

Guess what the price of the MZ-1 was 22 years ago?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

http://www.minidisc.org/part_S...

Well, it was 1200$ in Canada....

I was a Sony fanboi back then and having one of the first MZ-1s was like being a space alien. Just ejecting the disc on the Metro (subway) was a reason for complete strangers to ask what it is! Fun times.

Sony, like me, now appears to be a grumpy middle-aged man with graying hair denying that it's 2015...

That's why I said "... in any reasonable fashion". For anyone who's curious, look here at the MDH-10 and MDM-111, both of which also required special MD-DATA discs and couldn't record audio.

Apple first with USB? PCs had them a year before the iMac. Plus back in the day, the only portable music player that would dare use firewire was the iPod.

Apple Computer is the new Sony for proprietary f-you lock-in.

Are you still using your Apple Bus Mouse with an ADB connector?

This is hardly revolutionary technology the Sony MZ R700 MiniDisc walkman came with a rechargable battery and a charging circuit so you can charge it from the wall wart. The best part is that its an AA battery, so not only can you swap it out for a standard AA in a pinch you can also stick any other rechargable AA in and use that/recharge it internally. And that came out in 2001 and is the tiniest most amazing piece of electronics i've ever laid hands on, I bought a "new" one off ebay just a couple of weeks ago.

Hooray for obsolete technology. Good to see that I'm not the only one still clinging to my minidisc and getting laughed at by all my ipod/phone toting friends when they see it. I always like the Sharps better though, they don't feel as fisher price.

This is hardly revolutionary technology the Sony MZ R700 MiniDisc walkman came with a rechargable battery and a charging circuit so you can charge it from the wall wart. The best part is that its an AA battery, so not only can you swap it out for a standard AA in a pinch you can also stick any other rechargable AA in and use that/recharge it internally. And that came out in 2001 and is the tiniest most amazing piece of electronics i've ever laid hands on, I bought a "new" one off ebay just a couple of weeks ago.

How about 1200$ to carry around one album? I still have the thing.

What software? Early Minidisc players didn't come with software. I can only assume you are referring to software that was bundled with the cable used to link the later Minidisc recorders to a computer?

For what it's worth, I still have my model MZ-R90; the thing's built like a tank.

Yeah, I know, who cares? Well, a few of us do/did... MD was a good technology for its time, but crippled by DRM and other restrictions.

Yeah, I know, who cares? Well, a few of us do/did... MD was a good technology for its time, but crippled by DRM and other restrictions.

I had a MDH-10, an external scsi-device using 140MB per disc. For more information, see http://www.minidisc.org/md_data_table.html They even had digital cameras use discs! Unfortunately, sony has a bad track record in coming up with their own formats and formfactors.

Yeah, you can make fun of Sony for Memory Stick and Betamax

And memory stick pro.
And minidisc.
And netmd.
And their non-mp3 player ipod wannabe.
And the "walkman bean".
And UMD.
And suing Lik-sang out of business.
And possible RAM price fixing.
And who can forget their exploding batteries!
Oh yeah and what about the criminal investigations for installing rootkits on you PC?


Yet they shipped the PS2 with standard ports (USB, IEEE1394)

It doesn't matter because you could not use them with standard hardware.
Who cares is a game console has USB if you can't hook up anything but sony-approved USB devices? The interface is then proprietary, regardless of the connector used.

As a long abused MiniDisc user I'd like to verify your statements. It is true that ATRAC3 severely handicapped the MD market for almost a decade alongside other sorts of recording limitations (3 upload copies only, live-recordings transferred to desktop sometimes made difficult) and the MP3 format was only allowed on the MD about two years ago, when Sony finally realized that they were screwing themselves over. By then the portable music player market was already saturated with other MP3 players and more recently the iPod.

But the MD isn't dead yet. By the way, it's moved to "Hi-MD", which has a gig of storage per MD. We all at Minidisc Forums suspected as much but Sony actually recently announced one new model this year! And it's very refined. It's the fastest selling Hi-MD model so far and may indicate a slight upturn in the market. The problem is we don't know whether this is the final entry into the Hi-MD market that Sony will make.. Stringer's entry into CEO came with the announcement of streamlining their product line and we still don't know if that means killing the MD market.

The MiniDisc format was not completely proprietary. It was developed by Sony, but licensed to nearly all of the major audio equipment companies. Over 20 manufacturers made MD players and records.

Yeah, right. MDs can be recorded to 100s of times; let's compare like for like.

No, that was never the case. Have you ever seen an MP3 recorder ? MD lets you record on very small portable devices. And how long does it take you to transfer 512 MB of MP3 to your player, is it as quick as eject-insert-play ? I don't think so. Did you compare the original iPod size to high end MD players ? iPod is massive in comparison.

What is your problem with Net MD ? Sure it's not MP3 but Sony offers a way to transfer MP3 to MD directly. Did you really think that they were going to "forget" about DRM, or try to support other companies' equipment ? By the way, Sharp etc also offer NetMD.

see http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=149 70

its an april fool. Its a good one though, it had me, and it certainly seemed realistic. Would have been good for the slashdot front page yesterday. Also note that "Shigatsu-Baka" translates literally to "April fool" from japanese.

Using a MiniDisc for recording is a bad idea anyway, since there is no way whatsoever to digitally extract them. The only thing you can do is re-record the disc's content from analog line-out.

Yes, before Hi-MD ("standard" MD), there was no way to digitally extract the recordings. I'm pretty sure the GP was talking about Hi-MD, even though he said "MiniDisc."

"We did finally make the Minidisc machine everbody knew Sony was capable of," said Miyazaki, "but at a considerable cost." Some members of Sony's vaunted Shinagawa engineering labs have apparently felt the burden has been too high however; since January over two dozen engineers and scientists have left to join Google Japan where, it is rumored, a wireless portable audio device with a wow-factor exceeding the iPod is under development."

Sony were fools to opt for UMD instead of the HI-MD format. http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

Even though they are .8 GB smaller than the UMD, their rewriteability would have made the PSP a truly revolutionary media device. HI-MD audio players have incredibly long battery life for a non-solid state player. Using the h.264 video format, they could still have released very high quality movies. If they thought the UMD was going to prevent piracy, well, we all know how well that turned out.

The Floppy of the Future if Sony ever lets it out of the nursery. Sure, it is DRMed up the butt but then lack of DRM is the main reason that no floppy substitute has been forthcoming. More capacity than a CD-RW, more compact and hardy enough you can put it in your front pocket without worry even if your name ain't Steve Jobs

Does this help? 'streaming' is push, and you don't have to wait for a given file, as a single element, to be completely copied over to your side your side before you can use it. The audio is part of a continous stream that your computer can utlize for (nearly) instant playback.'download' is pull, where your computer tells the remote computer it is authorized to commence a file transfer. You can't listen to an audio file until it is finished being downloaded.

podcasting is actually time-shifting, where you decide when you'll listen, much like TiVo.

If I had known this was going to be such a big thing, I'd have made more noise about it back in 2001, when I used to have my B&W G3 'speak' my email so it could be recorded onto a mini-disc (VOX). I'd simply disconnect and pocket the portable MD player/recorder as I was going out the door, and 'listen' to my email on my way to work...oh well.

My netmd won't work (4 years and counting), and it's drm'd to fcsk. While I agree that drm may be viable in linux (I don't mind), I hope future models of netmd will be linux compatible. I guess it means I'll have to upgrade to a different model though (this is what you get for supporting a company early on..)

SONY: SUPPORT THIS PROJECT: http://www.minidisc.org/NetMD_faq.html

I'm sick of rebooting.

Take my word for it; you'll be able to buy a Minidisc drive for your PC before that happens.

I can't really tell whether that was sarcasm or not given the first result for Google md data .

Congrats on your +5 Insightful, despite not knowing any facts about what you are talking about.

1. ipods run MP3's natively.

In case you haven't been around in the last year, the current minidisc players play mp3s. No encoding to other formats. Also, these have the ability to record in raw PCM stereo, with a mic. And upload it USB to your computer to edit.

...And it's a great portal into a digital music store.

If you love DRM, enjoy. Not me.

4. You can use ipods like portable hard drives. Because they are.

And yes, you can also use the new minidisc models as external USB storage drives. 1GB disc are about $6 each.

I can't tell you the last time I bought a Sony BMG product. For contrast, I purchased 30 blank minidiscs just last month.

Doesn't Sony still own the patents on MiniDisc?

i thought SCMS (serial copy management system?) was forced by the recording industry. the battle in courts pretty much killed DAT, MD, and the DCC (digital compact cassete). i maybe wrong, but i thought sony was fighting not to bother with content protection. the recording industry wasn't about to let anyone make digital copies without some kind of barrier (home recordings didn't get a copy protect bit, only pre-recorded stuff). ATRAC sucks now, but at the time was pretty nice. The MD took advantage a lot of neat technologies (psycho-acoustic compression, kerr-effect, curie point). a little refresher: http://www.minidisc.org/beyond_the_caddy.html

The Sony Hi-HD is a new mini-disk format that can hold up to 1GB of data and music. But the real bonus is that hardware manufactures could use the same form factor that the floppy drives use in PC chassis and replace them with a Hi-HD drive. Also, the mini disks are small and enclosed in their own little caddy like a floppydisk is.

The specs in PDF format can be downloaded here

http://www.minidisc.org/keep/Sony_Hi-MD_Spec.pdf

Personally ATRAC is just fine for me, even more when considering it's a portable gadget. I can hear compression artifacts on some very dynamic material (notably, classic music) but for the rest it sounds quite ok. I'd compare it to a 128kbps MP3 stream, quality wise. But it's all subjective.

PS: There're several ATRAC revisions. My minidisc walkman uses the original algorithm. The latest revision compresses much better but it's said to sound awful, which i can't comment on since i never tried a player using it. Still, the only lossy compression formats i'd use at home would be MP3 above 192kbps or OGG-Vorbis above 128kbps.

I've been an avid MiniDisc user for a few years now, and while the MP3 players are very attractive I find myself sticking to the minidisc. Here are my reasons for using a minidisc player:

1. I'm clumsy. I've dropped my player while biking, working on heights and sat on it. It still works.

2. I can record internet radio streams. Just open the whatevercast stream and push the record button. A tad trickier to do on an MP3 player afaik

3. Before the long-play, it was a hassle, I agree, but now, with the Hi-MD that Sony is releasing, things are really looking up

4. The USB transfer possibility finally enables you to transfer audio to the disc at reasonable speeds.

So if anyone wants to give their MD-players away, there are still a few fans out there!

They did. It used different disks and din't do well.
http://www.minidisc.org/md_data_table.html

Mine is the MZ-R70 (blue model), which has remote, recording capabilty (from line or digital), all aluminium casing and built as a tank. The only feature missing is USB-recording, but i usually plug it to my CD deck and let it cut the tracks automatically ("Synchro-REC"). I bought it second hand a couple of years ago and it's still going strong.

Here's a nice review for it.

It can also play for more than 11 hours with a single AA rechargeable.

I was a big mini-disc fan up until the advent of the Open MG "Net MDs". This software puts such ridiculous restrictions on your music (the discs cannot be re-written by anything other than the original machine, the discs' contents cannot be removed by anything other than the original machine, and the original SP "full quality" recordings are no longer available with media transfered using this software.

I am in the unenviable position of having 20 discs of music in this country, all my cds in another along with the original laptop, and no way to transfer the music back to pc.

I realise that I could just record from the line out, but in this digital age, that's quite distasteful, and I don't have an optical port on my soundcard.

Additional commentary can be found at
http://www.minidisc.org/NetMD_faq.html#_q83

The new 1gb Hi-MD recorders can be used as a USB Mass Storage device. They are slower and more expensive than most other modern storage media, but if they're as reliable as claimed they're still worthwile. The old Minidiscs can be formatted in the new recorders for 305MB.

" I am suprised no one has tried to use the more "moveing part mechanical style wheel" "

Huh??

Even then MD was great, but I no longer have the patience to babysit an MD-deck and CD player to make compilations (I've never tried NetMD). ...and then there's the matter of comparing 20gb of storage to 660MDs. While I'm very excited about HiMD technology, I can't see myself putting it to any use until HiMD players support MP3 playback.

Even then MD was great, but I no longer have the patience to babysit an MD-deck and CD player to make compilations (I've never tried NetMD). ...and then there's the matter of comparing 20gb of storage to 660MDs. While I'm very excited about HiMD technology, I can't see myself putting it to any use until HiMD players support MP3 playback.

the device itself could not be used within windows as a portable Magneto Optical drive (which it is) for backing up/restoring stuff...

Actually you could, but you probably wouldn't want to. Hell, there's even a 3.5" internal MD-Data drive there!

The supposed Xbox 2 logo looks heavily "inspired" by Sony's recent Walkman logo, plus the Cingular logo, and a bit lile Microsoft's Office:mac logos (and the whole Aqua motif). Unless MS is going for the "me too" look, I don't think that one'll happen.

Aside from looking for deals on E-bay, you'll find that the features you want are not availble at a consumer level.

High end mindisc recorders allow digital dubbing, but not consumer models. An excellent source of information is here.

By the way, minidisc does not use DRM, it just doesn't have a digital line out jack.

In broadcast circles a lot of people are moving to various flash media units, and seem quite happy with them. These tend to be "pro" units, with XLR mic jacks and digital in and out.

You can also check out transom.org for advice on recorders.

Sony Minidisc Players use this type of jack (Picture here of the optical connector)

While it's true the digital and analog outputs plug into the same hole, they get their signal from different parts of that hole. The optical cable receives light from the bottom of the jack, while, as usual, the analog signal comes from copper connections on the side of the jack.

Apparently Sony has enough know-how to accomplish those requirements around small disc and portable player, as tested in MiniDisc that has a sizable market in Japan. Google "battery life" and "minidisc", and the figures are not bad. In PSP you have to consider cost of running games in a large LCD, but it won't be much higher than GameBoy - like 2 times or less power consumption.

Permitted Uses:
You may play the Connect Downloads an unlimited number of times on up to three (3) personal computers that are registered with the Connect store, including the personal computer on which the Connect Downloads are originally downloaded. Once downloaded to that personal computer, you may transfer the licensed Connect Downloads an unlimited number of times to portable music devices and media (except for WMG's Content, which may be transferred to up to three (3) different portable devices) that read the OpenMG DRM such as the HiMD, the Net MD, and the Memory Stick media. You may not thereafter transfer, copy or export (or the like) such Connect Download from one such device to another, or to any media of any kind without maintaining the OpenMGDRM. In addition, you may also "burn" up to a total of ten (10), (up to five (5) permanent copies of the Connect Downloads in compressed form in the Atrac3 codec encrypted and protected by the OpenMG DRM and up to five (5) Redbook CDs, (except for UMG's content, which may be burned to at least ten (10) Redbook CDs)), to either blank recordable CD-R compact discs or blank recordable CD-RW compact discs (i.e., a physical, non-interactive record configuration that conforms to either (i) in the case of CD-Rs, the so-called "Orange Book Part II" technical specification for "write once" compact discs or (ii) in the case of CD-RWs, the so-called "Orange Book Part III" technical specification for "re-writable" compact discs). Any burning or transferring capabilities of the Connect Downloads are solely an accommodation to you and shall not constitute a grant or waiver (or other limitation or implication) of any rights of the copyright owners of the sound recording and underlying musical composition embodied in the Connect Download.
Non-Permitted Uses:
Any use of the sound recordings as embodied in the Connect Download other than as permitted above is a violation of the copyright in such sound recording under applicable laws, and is prohibited. Except as expressly permitted in the "Permitted Uses" section above, you may not reproduce, distribute or transfer the Connect Downloads, in any format. For example, you may not: (i) transfer the Connect Downloads to anyone else; (ii) register more than 3 computers with the Connect store at any one time; (iii) copy or transfer the Connect Downloads to more than the number of portable music devices expressly permitted in the "Permitted Uses" section above; (iv) "burn" more than ten (10) copies of any particular Connect Download to blank recordable compact disc; or (v) copy or transfer the Connect Downloads to any storage device or blank media not specifically authorized in the "Permitted Uses" section above. In addition, you may not reverse engineer, transcode, decompile, translate, adapt, modify, disassemble or otherwise tamper with the Content, or the software, or circumvent any technology designed to enforce these Limitations on Use. You further agree that you will not attempt to modify the software or the Usage Rules for any reason whatsoever, including for the purpose of disguising or changing ownership of the Content.

You don't mark the original, just the copies. How it works for MDs.

http://www.minidisct.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&t hreadid=13149

http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~bertrik/netmd/mdhack.htm l

http://forums.minidisc.org/viewtopic.php?t=5&start =195

Great idea! That's what we do. ;) I'm involved in a startup called Listen Digital that's getting into both online distribution of live shows and onsite CD burning. We've got a store called Download Live Music that lets artists sell downloads of their show online right after it's over.

Basically, we're a bunch of guys who are sick of the whole top 40 shit and sick of the fact that a lot of great artists aren't able to support themselves in mainstream distribution channels. The main thing that we're interested in is creating a new form of production and distribution that's viable for local bands local bands who have great live shows and a dedicated fan base but haven't made it big yet, not just the Phish's and DMB's.

This USB keychain idea is going to be a fad. People going to check out small bands aren't going to want to drop $30 to get a recording of it, and even at larger ones, as geeky-cool as having a USB keychain with the band's logo on it may be, it doesn't have the same wide appeal of a high-fidelity CD recording with customized artwork. Quality-wise, unlike the uncited claim that 192 kbps audio is indistinguishable from CDs, there are plenty of studies that show otherwise.

http://www.minidisc.org/atrac3.zip

You can use it in an application like CoolEdit or VirtualDub. RealProducer has an encoder as well. I recommend posting in the forums at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org if you have any further questions.

Wrong: with compression they hold much, much more, several hours worth. "Minidisc "Long Play" = 320 minutes stereo ("LP4")"

But that's not the point, you obviously didn't RTF post. My point is MD existed long before iPods or even mp3 players, was sexier than CD players at the time and held far more music, yet they never got near as much publicity as iPods get. Now MD is hopelessly outdated, but even in their hey-day you heard very little about MD. If you read the news, even slashdot, you'd think everyone owns a iPod and iPod is the only mp3 player that exists. That couldn't be further from the truth.

"With my iPod, I can copy music to it whenever I want (in seconds), and copy music off it just as fast."

Sounds like nearly every other hd mp3 player in existance.

"iPods shouldn't be compared to anything else, as they're so different."

besides appearance, they're really not much different than any other hd mp3 player... oh, I forgot the incredibly high prices.

I have a friend with a iPod, know what he uses it for? To exercise a few hours a week. Just a 10 gig hard drive would hold 166 hours worth of music (@ 1 min/mB) and he only uses it a few hours a week! Waste of money? I'd say so. If you only use it say, 7 hrs a week on average (1 hr/day), I don't see the point of having anymore than, oh, 20 hours worth of music, which is 1.2gig @ 1min/mB. That 20 hours would last you 3 weeks before you heard a song repeat at your average useage.

Would it be fun to have 40gigs in my pocket? Of course! But if I pay for 40 gigs and I only use 1.2 gigs, I think I wasted some money wouldn't you agree?

Would you care to guess how much Sony's new hi-md portable player will cost?

Don't need to guess:

• MZ-NH600D - $200 (no mic or line-in inputs, consequently not very useful as far as I'm concerned)
• MZ-NHF800 - $250 (includes mic and line-in jacks, also AM/FM/TV/Weather tuner)
• MZ-NH900 - $300 (Nicer looking, charger has USB connection, but no radio tuner AFAIK)
• MZ-NH1 - $400 (Magniesium case, nice remote, not sure how you would justify the cost)

These four are slated for April 2004. From what I can see, the NHF800 looks like the best buy, but until reviews of available equipment come in, it will be useless to make final judgments.

More info at minidisc.org.