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This kind of hacking, if it ever begins to saturate the market, only serves to undermine consoles in general.

Really? Then why does Sony support Linux on their console???
They were smart and released Linux on PS2 in a way that they could control, rather than encourage 'this kind of hacking'.

Linux has been available on the PS2 for quite a while now.

The number of coop games are not easily found.

We have tried and did not like:
Alon Dar : had to play 2 hours solo before second person can join. No option for character the second player gets (it's a lizard). Very poor battle system, tedious quests (collect 30 silver acorns, collect 30 rocks...) and more time in the game forces you to play with 2 characters each.

Half-Life Decay : First person shooter, split screen very hard to determine where you are. Have sworn off split screen games.

Project Eden: Split screen (uggh!) each player controls 2 characters. Can give orders to secondary characters to follow you, but if you tell them do something like turn on their helmet lights, they forget to follow you.

We play:
As you mentioned Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, and Gauntlet Dark Legacy. We also share Lord of the Rings : The Two Towers (1 cheers while the other plays)

Swing Away Golf : build a character in single mode, and compete with your spouse together. She still beats me.

Games that are coming out that may be of interest:
Baldur's Gate : Dark Alliance II -- Fall
Lord of the Rings : Return of the King -- Nov 4


Also you can do searches on the Playstation web site for 2 player games. A lot of sports games appear, but it gets you a list.

you mean something like this? i imagine they've sold loads ;)

As of 30 May 2003, the prices of both Xbox and Playstation 2 in Australia dropped to AUD 329, from AUD 399 previously. (You can get a Gamecube with Metroid Prime for under AUD 300. Of course, the 'Cube isn't marketed very well and has struggled here.)

That said, most of the shops here would sell you a console with a big pile of stuff bundled in: Gamecube plus Metroid Prime; PS2 plus movies; Xbox plus Halo (still), Amped (still) and discount vouchers.

According to the actual press release, the battery will be a rechargable lithium-ion type battery, which means no need to buy batteries, as it seems it will be built in.

Microsoft has been adamant that the Xbox is and will remain a gaming platform. Period. The knee-jerk reaction to news of additional capabilities, such as voice and music, is "The Xboxes aren't selling as game consoles, so they're trying other applications in hopes of selling more boxes."

This doesn't make much sense when one considers that Microsoft loses money on every Xbox. The bill of materials is $400-$500, and they retail for $200. That difference can't be made up on volume. This business model is to lose money on the consoles but make it back (and then some) on the games, much like the razor/blade model. Games are high-margin products, especially those created in-house, and I would think that the Xbox business case is dependent upon preserving those margins. So pushing the Xbox as an enabler of low-margin services doesn't make much sense. Let's look at those mentioned...

Voice
Sure, Xbox Live voice quality is pretty good. Since Xbox Live requires broadband, it's not tough to obtain toll quality. But why would they want to? There are many reasons why voice over IP hasn't taken off (customers don't want to be tethered to their PCs, long distance is already cheap -- you'd better not be paying more than $0.05/minute for interstate calls), and to my knowledge Xbox Live doesn't have the billing capabilities required for voice services. The article states that Microsoft would move the chat capability to the Xbox Live dashboard, which implies the requirement of an Xbox Live subscription. It's unlikely that this feature would convince consumers to subscribe to Xbox Live. Microsoft would also need VOIP-PSTN gateways, so their customers can call people who don't use an Xbox. Telephone service is complicated. Maybe Microsoft would partner with a company such as Vonage, but they certainly aren't the easiest to work with.

Music
A neat capability, much like the QCast Tuner for the PlayStation 2. Consumers have shown little willingness to pay for this, however, as they're accustomed to free players. Service like Rhapsody and pressplay would undoubtedly benefit from freedom from the shackles of the PC, but their revenue shares are micenuts compared with Microsoft's costs. Given the current crop of LAN-to-stereo bridges, like the AudioTron and the SimpleFi, the Xbox does stand out, but this advantage may be gone in a few months when the likes of Linksys launch its low-cost device.

Movies
One of the reasons for Movielink's slow start is the simple fact that most consumers prefer to watch movies on their TVs, not their PCs. This problem is defeated with the Xbox in the mix, as it enables high-quality video output to the TV. Perhaps Microsoft plans to download the top 3-4 pay per view movies to the Xbox hard drive each night (Movielink movies are 500-600MB each, so they would easily fit on the 8-9GB Xbox HDD), so when the consumer chooses a popular movie playback begins immediately. The margins on this business are low, too. And Microsoft will compete with existing TV-based PPV and Video on Demand, which is slowly rolling out to cable systems. This makes a tough market even tougher.

Summary
Low margin + low penetration services will not lift the Xbox to profitability. Great games will. Strong Xbox Live games will give customers a reason to pay $9.95 a month for the service. Hopefully the EA/AOL exclusivity deal will end soon, so Xbox can benefit from good sports titles. Until the games improve, Microsoft is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. They have the cash to be patient, however.

Disclaimer: I work fo

Obviously you've never played Dark age of Camelot. It is a windows game and is more fun that any other game I've ever played.

Grouping all windows games into one "sucks" category is pretty dumb on your part, you couldn't possibly have tried them all.

My PS2 has been in the living room collecting dust since I discovered DAOC. Haven't seen anything good for PS2 since FFX. *Yawn*

BTW, I actually _have_ that particular little jewel and I'm sorry to tell you that it does suck pretty bad. A total let down to say the least. Save your money, invest it in a small server and just install Linux there.

This kind of crap is exactly why I switched my gaming platform years ago. Really I don't know why people say they keep a Windows machine around "for games" playing games on windows sucks, big time. Speaking of which, just can't wait to get this particular little jewel

This kind of crap is exactly why I switched my gaming platform years ago. Really I don't know why people say they keep a Windows machine around "for games" playing games on windows sucks, big time. Speaking of which, just can't wait to get this particular little jewel

Playstation has a linuxkit for the ps2. It's not made for a big audience, just for a few nerds, but it is a step in the right direction. Maybe it will be somewhat more popular if Europeans are able to connect their playstation to the internet too.

I&N

The PS2 Linux kit lets an aspiring developer get to grips with the most popular console in the world. The coding experience gained on this kit is in many cases identical to that which you would gain using the T10k pro dev kit. There's some fascinating hardware in there, including the two Vector Units that give the PS2 its power. These are custom parallel vector processors with dual pipelines and can perform four floating-point multiply-adds plus an integer op per cycle.

There's nowhere you can get your hands on this kind of vector hardware outside of your local supercomputing facility. There's no compiler for these either, so it's asm all the way - a real challenge.

The kit is available worldwide, online only:

US
Europe, Africa, Middle East
Japan
Australia
New Zealand

The PS2 Linux kit lets an aspiring developer get to grips with the most popular console in the world. The coding experience gained on this kit is in many cases identical to that which you would gain using the T10k pro dev kit. There's some fascinating hardware in there, including the two Vector Units that give the PS2 its power. These are custom parallel vector processors with dual pipelines and can perform four floating-point multiply-adds plus an integer op per cycle.

There's nowhere you can get your hands on this kind of vector hardware outside of your local supercomputing facility. There's no compiler for these either, so it's asm all the way - a real challenge.

The kit is available worldwide, online only:

US
Europe, Africa, Middle East
Japan
Australia
New Zealand

The PS2 Linux kit lets an aspiring developer get to grips with the most popular console in the world. The coding experience gained on this kit is in many cases identical to that which you would gain using the T10k pro dev kit. There's some fascinating hardware in there, including the two Vector Units that give the PS2 its power. These are custom parallel vector processors with dual pipelines and can perform four floating-point multiply-adds plus an integer op per cycle.

There's nowhere you can get your hands on this kind of vector hardware outside of your local supercomputing facility. There's no compiler for these either, so it's asm all the way - a real challenge.

The kit is available worldwide, online only:

US
Europe, Africa, Middle East
Japan
Australia
New Zealand

You can buy the PS2 Linux kit online at:
http://www.us.playstation.com/purchase/hardware/
Buy PS2 Linux Kit

Actually I was referring to the roots (AT&T) of the dump/restore commands as a means of archiving. In addition, there is the fact that 1394 is a standard that allows peer to peer isochronous and asynch video/audio/data transfer. this means the: iLink port on the PS2 can be networked with another PS2; a 1394 drive could be networked with a computer that has a 1394 port (replacing the SCSI tape drive; or a DV camera could transfer information to a fro. Once the divice drivers mature. I know the applications of the technology will open various combinations of data transfer over a wide (50MB/s 1394a, 100MB/s 1394b, and 400MB/s 1394{?}) data pipeline.

They've worked so hard, to play with the big boys. Eventually microsoft is going to have to realize, that people don't want to buy hype. They want to buy a GOOD VIDEO GAME SYSTEM
Don't make smaller hardware, make better games. You can only play so much Halo, before you get bored.

> And it ain't the number of PS[1|2] sold, it is the number of games sold that is so staggering.
It's both actually. I'm amazed at the amount of hardware sold, and even more amazed at the number of games sold !

> What is the track to get into PS development?
The inexpensive way ($200), is the PS2 Linux Kit
The expensive way ($20k+), is the TOOL T10K, along with Metrowerks CodeWarrior PS2, or SN Systems ProDG.

You'll find this interview interesting.

> Is there a PC based emulator that you can use for design?
With 7 CPU's in the PS2, don't hold your breath waiting for an emulator anytime soon!

> Or is it something reserved for good sized software houses that requires you to learn on the Job?
Usually it will be on the job, unless you had prior experience with the PS1. (Mostly because you won't have access to all the docs and newsgroups, unless you are a professional licensed developer.)

Cheers

I'm not sure, maybe you should as Sony.

I wonder if we're ever going to get to a point where "this is the hardware. You have 10 years to do something cool with it"

not to bring down this project, as I think the PVR is an excellent idea with the XBox's capabilities, Sony already has linux for the PS2.

Here's why:

I would expect Sony's stock price to have plummeted and investors would be made aware (no evidence on Yahoo Biz).

I would expect that Sony's website would mention this issue (here's the press release site for the Playstation http://us.playstation.com/news/PressReleases/ and Sony's official press release site) Note the lack of this story.

Google turns up no results either.

Don't post stories like this without checking them.

Yes 1394, and Sony calls its implementation the i.Link
Sony's Playstation Website's Comment on the connecter

The XBOX has a "hard drive."

It's much easier to carry a memory card or floppy disk from one location to another than it is to lug a whole Xbox console. No, don't say "remove the hard drive and put it in another machine" because each hard drive is keyed to an individual Xbox system through ATA authentication.

PS2 has a hard drive too. You can get it as part of the "Linux" kit.

The Linux kit for PlayStation 2 needs a blank memory card to store the kernel, so you're not saving any money. In addition, PS2 games can't use a memory card or hard drive formatted for Linux.

If you had just read the *Before using Linux Kit (for PlayStation 2)* section of the web page you would have had NO surprises as they clearly indicate what you SHOULD know and have PRIOR to ordering/installing the Linux PS2 Kit.

Let's keep in mind that this Kit is a very wonderful undertaking for the Open source community and that criticizing is always easy...
We should be backing them up and not hitting them when they are already down (taking this type of risk in packaging this bundle was quite a ballsy move and I'm not sure that they are coming even in their investment)

If we want more products like this to be available maybe we should ease up on the harsh responses and be grateful that *someone* is trying to reach out to us and not only focus on the cash-cow main-stream market.

Once again Microsoft is doing something that someone else already did and trying to make it sound innovative! The people at Sony have had a kit for putting Linux on the PS2 out since Feb! PS2 Linux Developers Sony's Kit

My only question is Why?

Why waste your time getting linux to run on a Microsuck product?
Why waste time dealing with closed hardware?

Because it's there? :-)
Less flippantly, one of Linux's strong points is the ability to put otherwise wasted hardware to good use. I think that pretty much sums up the X-Box - why cripple a perfectly good PC to use as a game console when there are other purpose-built alternatives?

Remember The Goodies motto: "Anything, Anywhere, Anytime."

32MB...see here for the rest of the specs.

What happened to those people who shelled out $100 at the beginning of WIndows 95s life.

They had to cough up another $100 for Win98, and then another for WinMe and then another for XP, so they can use new software.

They released OS after OS cutting off their user base for years, and now they're the biggest company in the world. We've heard this all before. And it worked beautifully the first time. But this time there is an alternative.

On the more serious side, microwave popcorn is always good -- college students go through tons of it (if you want to go healthy, buy her the low-butter kind) -- pizza gift certificates are always good, a DVD player (region free ones are the best) and lots of movies to go along with it (chick flicks for her and the roomie, action movies for the guy friends), perhaps a TV to go along with that DVD player, and maybe a video game system.

Oh, soups, the soups in a can are good -- easy to make, especially when you feel sick. On that note, Nyquil and Dayquil are highly recommended to go along with the rest of the stuff -- she'll thank you when she needs them when she gets her first really bad cold.

-CPM

Linux for PlayStation 2 version 1.0 software

Monitor Cable Adaptor

Internal 40GB Hard Disc Drive Network Adaptor

Ethernet 10/100 Base-T

USB Keyboard & USB Mouse

I thought the PS2 Linux kit was $200.

If it's an honest mistake, then, okay--just check the numbers better next time.

If you are presenting misinformation as a FUD tatic, then just go home, stick your head in the toilet, and blow bubbles until you pass out.

Linux for Playstation 2 Community

Pre-Order Linux for PS-2

If you really want one of these it might not hurt to pre-order it on Sony's site!

They do have an interesting warning on there. The Linux kit's hard drive will not work with other games. So you'll have to buy a second hard drive for Final Fantasy 11 and swap them out!

• Linux (for PlayStation 2) version 1.0 software
• Monitor Cable Adaptor (for PlayStation 2)
• Internal Hard Disc Drive (40 GB) (for PlayStation 2)
• Network Adaptor (Ethernet) (for PlayStation 2)[10/100 Base-T]
• USB Keyboard & USB Mouse (for PlayStation 2)

My inbox is constantly full of e-mail from the participants in the experts groups just banging away on the specification because they understand its importance. So along with Sun, we have companies participating like Sony Computer Entertainment...

The irony is that the PS2 does have firewire/usb ports, expansion slots for a hard drive, network addons, and the ability to hook up to CRT monitors (don't know about LCDs). The PS2 Linux Kit available for preorder will basically be a desktop computer. It's already out in Japan, and you can do quite a few things with it if you are dedicated. Want to play MP3s, type up documents, use external CD burners/hard disks (via USB), use it as a NFS server/client, program games for it, or browse the web? It's pretty much all there.

As for buying a computer, the majority of people hardly upgrade anything more than RAM and maybe a hard disk, so a console could conceivably be the next wave of computers. It sure would make programming "easier" with a non-moving hardware platform much like how Apple's computers are.

Lara Croft will only look so good ...

Taken from the Playstation site.

PlayStation 2 Basic Specifications and Features

CPU 128 Bit
System Clock Frequency 294.912 MHz
Main Memory Direct RDRAM
Memory Size 32MB
Graphics "Graphics Synthesizer"
Clock Frequency 147.456MHz
etc ...

Ok ... since we all know that Mhz != Performance ... we do need to agree that to get to 1000x performance, we need to increase the clock of the CPU ... so lets assume that through the miracle of discussion that we only need to increase the CPU clock 500x ...

So ... 300Mhz * 500 = 150000Mhz ... or 150Ghz ...

Where is the stash of crack that these developers are on?

You may install and use the Software only with a PlayStation 2 Computer Entertainment System. You may not copy, modify or transfer the Software and its accompanying manual.

USB Keyboard & USB Mouse (for PlayStation 2)

The screenshots look impressive. It would be cool if I could play that on my platform. And however I realize, that I belong to the minority of gamers (which is good, like Mark Twain has already said, "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."), I still think that when they would wisely program this game for many different gaming platforms and few desktop ones, it'd be a piece of cake to release other version. But I'm affraid that they would prefer us to use other options, unfortunately...

Oh, well, I gues I'll just have to wait for Mason, or Warewolf, or Sands of Syllus, or Archipelago, or Catacombs, or Belchfire, or Acid Tempest, or Phoenix...

The screenshots look impressive. It would be cool if I could play that on my platform. And however I realize, that I belong to the minority of gamers (which is good, like Mark Twain has already said, "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."), I still think that when they would wisely program this game for many different gaming platforms and few desktop ones, it'd be a piece of cake to release other version. But I'm affraid that they would prefer us to use other options, unfortunately...

Oh, well, I gues I'll just have to wait for Mason, or Warewolf, or Sands of Syllus, or Archipelago, or Catacombs, or Belchfire, or Acid Tempest, or Phoenix...

The article also states that the Xbox and the GC supports 4 controllers, while the PS2 only supports two.
This is not true. If you buy the Multitap (see here) you can play 1-5 players, buy one more and you can play 1-8 players!
I like my PS2, it's a shame that the games are so DAMN expensive!

Oh, and I agree, the article was one of the better I've read! Took a while to read it, but it was great!

Buy the 'greatest hits' online - from Sony

OTOH... that PS2-Madden football commercial shows some sweet graphics.

It has certain benefits that PCs do not have (locked hardware, unified memory, etc.)

Locked hardware is a benefit?! For whom? Certainly not for the customer. Maybe for those that love control, such as the MPAA and the RIAA, but not us, the customers.

It seems you have already been assimilated into the Borg.

Makes me long for the day when PS2 meant PS/2 and not PlayStation 2. (Maybe we shouldn't abbreviate PlayStation 2 like that, look at CSS, is it Cascading Style Sheets, Content Scrambling System or C Styled Script?).

Anyway, the PS/2 was somewhat of a closed system (IBM had been overly tight-fisted about controlling use of the MCA bus technology - it hurt them and they have learned from their mistake), but it was far more open than the PS2 game machine.

P.S. I am wondering, what benefits can game consoles have over PCs anyway? PCs have TV out for those that want connections to TVs and the frame rates are nowadays faster than human perception and the scan rate of any monitor or TV out there. Please let me know what I am missing. Granted they are cheaper than PCs sometimes, but not by all that much it seems. And anything with a hard drive is getting close to being a PC anyway... Heck, GCC can be made to run on it I heard.

Excellent, I was hoping to get a reply from a developer.

1) Do you use Linux much? Have you used it for any game/non-game development? It is definitely capable of running games. Windows is only worthy of games because of the huge marketshare, not because it is a better gaming platform. It is also obvious that the Linux community wants games. Are you part of that community? Do you not agree?

Also, porting to the Mac tends to be an afterthought. As in, let's worry about making the "real game" (on the primary platform) as freaknasty as possible, and think about possibly offloading the code on a Mac developer later.

And finally, regarding developers that wish they could be working in Linux, I presume you weren't referring to artists, level designers, testers or producers. ;^) Sorry to be brutally honest, but hey, remember the PS2 does run Linux kick-assedly (although it's only been available in Japan... so far)!

PS/2's have been able to run linux for a while. In fact, since 1990.

I think you mean PS2.

First, a correction: the GPL does not require that you distribute source to a GPL program that you modify--only that if you distribute it in binary form then you must also distribute it in source form. This seems to be a pretty common misunderstanding, but if you come from out of nowhere and ask Sony (or anyone else) to fork over the source for some GPL'd software XYZ, and they say "screw you," well, tough luck--they're completely within their rights.

Second, Sony is including the source to all GPL components of their distribution. They even say as much (in Japanese) on their license terms page.

--
BACKNEXTFINISHCANCEL

http://www.us.playstation.com/product_detail/produ ct_detail.jhtml?PRODID=1&CATID=401