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http://www.project-entropia.com/ has been throwing around this idea and in fact had mentioned that they will be using in-game advertising. This would be good since it is a theoretically "free" game. As most probably know it is free for a little bit and you can't do to much with out eventually paying a bit. Any how it is another game brining advertising into play.

I don't think size is as important. I don't think big ensures success (eg: profits). All one really needs is enough user base to over the costs of development and operations--everything above that is gravy.

Project Entropia has been around for like 8 years now. At first, there were not many players. But today they have over 300K players. Second Life has been around for about 3 yrs and is boasting around 30K user base. And these games are going strong. I'm sure theres lot of other games that have made it by being small too.

The second thing is easy. Just play Project Entropia. The in-game currency is freely convertable to real-world currency and vice-versa. Additionally, the game has no sign-up or monthly fees, the client is freely downloadable, and you don't need to put real money into the game to play (although it's damn hard if you don't). You start with a set of clothes and nothing else. You cannot fight mobs without a weapon (but you can collect "sweat" from the mobs while they beat the living snot out of you.)

Actually, it appears this has already happened. The developer released a new "island" in the form of a space resort. The space resort features a unique spawning point for new users and lots of other goodies that the first island didn't have.

..and get this: the space resort sold for $100,000 USD.

... has been an anathema to them and remains so to just about every other MMORPG company in the industry.

Umm, I can, think of several that are quite happy to associate in-game goods/wealth with real world money. I'm too lazy to post all the links - google it up Mr Jacobs - you're missing some important market research. ;-)

I think you mean EARN money, not win. Buying and selling items for your character is the whole foundation of Project Entropia.

The makers of Second Life have taken a very unique approach to player rights with in the game.

In Second life, the content player create, is owned by the player and not the company .This is totally against the grain of most online games where the company owns it all.

Additionally, they have started tying in real currency to the in game currency. I know this not unique, as Project Entropia does the same thing.

I personally hope this is the way games will go--giving ownership of virtual property to the players and allowing them to use it, sell it, convert for real $$$. I find these environments more enjoyable and rewarding that environments like Everquest, where Sony pretty much owns you.

Two comments. First, there several other examples of "free" MMO games. Second, it's probably not really free, as in you will have to buy things in game to improve your user experience (like in Project Entropia).

For other examples, check out:
- Project Entropia http://www.project-entropia.com/
- Guild Wars http://www.guildwars.com/
- Roma Victor http://www.roma-victor.com/

Er.. I was thinking of Project Entropia. Apparently it's still going.

I think that the bridge is in Project Entropia. You can use it to get to the $25000 island.

Has anybody seen Project Entropia's screenshots. Take at these shots at some of the women in thongs. Now, the game readily converts in real currency to game currency, but NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

I propose a business plan whose time has come. Take a look at the graphics of men and women in WoW. Take a look at these gfx. The 3D engines have reached the point where the next big sim is Sex World.

Bondage camps, all kinds of lingerie and toys, fully animated and adjustable genitalia, special "attacks", and the PvP area can fufill mud wrestling or something.

Proximity to other players can trigger VOIP, for the phone sex angle and most importantly, you can convert game currency BACK to dollars or any other world currency through a partnership with a large enough bank like Citibank.

It's the natural next step after the Sims, right? It would make the sweatshops start teaching english, german, swedish, french and russian to local women real fast. If the environment was as immersive as WoW, and not some cheesy 3D engine, it would be probably be a big moneymaker.

And, since I'm fleshing (no pun intended, ok... intended) let's add gambling and a formal auction house for the bling bling, like stretch hummers (cars, people, keep your mind outta the gutter a bit) Ferraris, Porsches, diamond rings, Glock pistols (gotta have a ranged combat system in the PvP areas) maybe even have the real bad boys carrying Uzis.

It would make GTA look like a PBS kids show. Encourage the sweatshoppers, make it a real way to have a virtual economy. It can't be far off now.

What about Project Entropia and also Anarchy Online (without the expansion packs).

Yup, that's the one.

The guy actually stands to make a decent amount of money if he can develop it properly: not only does it have not insignificant 'natural' resources (which he can either exploit himself or subcontract), he can sell off land himself. If he's smart and can turn it into a desireable trading centre, he ought to do quite well. PE is planning to allow real-world companies to set up shops in the game; I wonder if anyone's approached him...

(More info on the island, including some very pretty pictures.)

...does she https://www.project-entropia.com/images/island/isl and_011.jpg come with it?

Well I just RTFA and the island sold for 265,000 PED. Or in other words the island was sold with in game currency that has a 10:1 ratio to real money - meaning that the island sold for about $2,650. You can read more about the currency system here

Forgot the URL: Project Entropia

This looks like the technology that will enable credit card acceptance in vending machines and video games

Erm, MMORPG mean anything to you? There are several that already use in game payments, such as Project Entropia

From the looks of the sales pitch for this game and a supposedly way to establish a new type of currency, this is sounding more and more like Project Entropia. Played that one and dumped around $40 to try and get some return on my investment (only as much as any other game).

However, I jumped in quite early, before they went Gold and ended up losing all of it trying to hunt and mine after they nerfed everything. I am skeptical as to this one if it has the same types of flaws, bugs, moral issues, etc.

brxndxn wrote:
"I read that some new MMORPGS that are coming out.."
Check out www.project-entropia.com! It's been around over a year...

Everyone is going to think I'm a total dead-head gamer for this, but it has to be referenced. This is the same business attitude that Project Entropia used on resolving some fraud issues. Apparently, someone at one point was either using a fraudulent account, or had a hack they used to generate expensive game gear in this MMPORPG (or however that gets abbrev.). I briefly participated in one of those successful clans which had good business entrepreneurial spirit, making use of the real/in-game economy and acting as a trader of sorts. We ran into this as their reason for playing a variety of constrictions with our "banker" character. Eventually, the clan abandoned the game as a poor business model.

Oh, you dealt with a fraudulent individual, and bought an item which was obtained falsely/ sold an item to someone who had a fraudulent account. You must be in on it.

Right. Like you can always tell the difference in a computer game between a data set obtained through normal game play, or an observably identical one obtained through some loophole. This falls into the indefensible "guilt by association" category of law enforcement. I see no difference in the way Paypal decides things. I hereby coin the ToS summary: "Autocratic Draconian Whim." Avoid it if you can. Read that fine print, be it a return agreement on a box of steaks, or a business contract for hourly labor. If it smells suspect, you have to trust that inner prompting and keep walking.

Paypal sounds like a good idea, I hope this bad press garners some alternatives, like PayTrustedSoul, PayDearHeart, PayBosomFriend, or at the very least PayLongTimeBusinessAssociate!

In Second life, the content player create, is owned by the player and not the company .
This is totally against the grain of most online games where the company owns it all.

Additionally, they have started tying in real currency to the in game currency. I know this not unique, as Project Entropia does the same thing.

I personally hope this is the way games will go--giving ownership of virtual property to the players and allowing them to use it, sell it, convert for real $$$. I find these environments more enjoyable and rewarding that environments like Everquest, where Sony pretty much owns you.

While this may be true for your run of the mill games, Massively Multiplayer games that require a subscription fee are a different animal. I have a hard time justifying to myself why I should pay $50 for a game that I have to pay $12.99 a month to use.

Thankfully, a number of companies have realized this. For example, you can download the demo for "Earth and Beyond" from EA, and play the full game for free for 14 days. Then, if you like it, you can buy a new CD key for $14.99 that will upgrade your demo to the full version (and cover your first month's subscription). No, you don't get a box, or a manual, or a physical CD, but you also don't get to pay $50 for a game that you don't really own in the first place.

Although I don't game much anymore, and if I do it's normally RPGs on older console systems, I did play some Project Entropia this year. I'm not sure if it went beta->public in late 2002 or early 2003, but close enough I guess. It's a MMORPG run by a Swedish company that is free to download and play. The catch is that you need ingame money, which can be deposited or withdrawn using various methods, to buy items like guns, ammo, bombs, ore detectors, clothing, or even a place to live in "Calypso," the PE world. You can earn money ingame by hunting, mining, crafting items, trading items for profit, begging (annnnoyyyyying), etc. Although I'm sure most people don't make money off the game, as the company running the game needs to make a profit. In my time playing, I managed to make about $30US ingame (~300PED, Project Entropia Dollars), while starting with nothing, so it is certainly possible. I've not played since the latest update, but I've heard it is a vast improvement, and that lag and disconnects are virtually eliminated. Overall, if you're bored and/or broke, or interested by the whole idea, it's certainly worth checking out.

neither object had any value though. just for looks

Been there, done that, got my 100 bucks out from this online casino with nice 3D UI. Some call it also MMORPG Project entropia

Tough I Was one of the lucky ones. In the end, it's the house that always wins

called Project Entropia (except for the chick, of course ^_-.)

Another start-up that's much more interesting than There.

no, i think you can cash out too. Project Entropia, last time i checked, had a similar system, but it begs the question "what happens if they started losing money?" i'm sure its like vegas, where everyone can't be a winner, but its an interesting question.

The use of real world money in a virtual MMOG is not unique or new with There. Project Entropia has been doing this for what, a year now? That's not to say it's a GOOD game per se, I've heard from several that it's actually very horrible (mostly because you have to shell out real world cash to get anywhere).

I've always wondered why more MMOs haven't gone toward a "free subscription" model such as Achaea or Project Entropia, where the source of the company's income is buying various game items with real-life money. Maybe not enough profit involved... but you'd think you'd get more people involved that way.

Been there. Done that.

This has been the concept behind Project Entropia which has been in development for some time. I suggest you check it out, as it is a very interesting idea.

Project Entropia seems to do most of this already. I only played during the economic model beta - interesting concept. Free client, free to play if you want. You put real money in for game money, get real money out from the same game money. So, theoretically, if you spent enough time farming then you could make some money, though I doubt very much.

Typically "start up" funds are about 10 bucks or so - at least when I played.

This is a great idea but it brings up a host of new problems. Who owns online items? What legal recourse is there if someone cheats? Who is liable for your money. etc.

People spend so much time and effort on MMORPGs that they should allow people to actually make a little money.

Project Entropia already do this.

Actualy, the "real-virtual economy" has already been done.

http://www.project-entropia.com
Project Entropia will have a real economy system that allows you as a user to exchange real life money into PED (Project Entropia Dollars) and then back into a real currency again.

The game was release last month (or so), but the company (MindArk) is pretty much a joke ... they were raided in 2002 with the help of M$ for having pirated software:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,53534,00 .html

The whole real-virtual economy thing sounds more like a bad gimmick than a viable feature...
_f

Riddled with bugs, a ridiculously bad interface implementation, and a lagging user-base, Project Entropia is otherwise the first MMOG where you can make money playing a game like this. Of course, I've yet to hear of anyone actually succeeding in that gambit -- as I'd imagine that they all quit playing in disgust long before then.

dont know what I was thinking, too tired I hope!

Maybe milliseconds of latency is an issue for twitch games like Quake and it would be variable too. People already do tricks with changing the packet rate higher during encounters to destabalise the opposition.

It will be interesting to know how the worls of MMORPGs will up the ante in the next generation. I imagine that there are people feverishly working away at cracking the project entropia net code. Project Entropia is an MMOPRG where the in-game money is exchanged for hard real world currency so the potential for fraud has moved from 'look at my l33t armor f4gg07' to 'look at my l33t b4nk balanc3'

In the screenshot below there is an insurance company in the background.
Screenshot

Yep.

"Should you make money in the virtual world, you can also withdraw it to your real world account and thus actually make money in a virtual world."

Pretty cool, actually.

It's called Project Entropia.

Project Entropia will be the next generation of interactive entertainment. In Project Entropia you will able to enter a whole world with amazing three-dimensional environments using a computer and the internet. It will be a massive virtual world where millions of users can interact with each other at the same time. Project Entropia will have a real economy system that allows you as a user to exchange real life money into PED (Project Entropia Dollars) and then back into a real currency again. Project Entropia will be free of charge with no monthly costs, which means that aside from the fees for your own local access to the internet while you are connected, the client software will be available with no payment to MindArk. All you need to do is get hold of the software that will be distributed in various ways, for example through the internet or on free CD's in computer magazines.

The people on this panel seem to have ignored the most pressing issue looming up, and that is the monetization of the MMORPG object tokens.

Up till now MMORPGs have been too low on the radar to register for fundies who like to ban this sort of thing, politicians who want a piece of the action, and the mob, sorry, Vegas, who want all of the action.

When you have outfits like Entropia blatantly charging people for their addictions, this is when matters come to a head.

It's already been suggested that's why companies like Mythic are so eager to ban online auctions of their "objects", because this turns them into at least retailers, and probably casino operators.

Now because of the weird alliance between the mob, sorry established casino operators, and the unusual number of puritanically minded prohibitionists in the US, online gambling is effectively banned, or regulated out of the country.

It's existed for a while, but operators generally have to set up servers in dubious countries and share rack space with porn merchants.

If MMORPGs go on developing their virtual economy, then they will soon be subject to at least taxation, probably regulation, and possibly prohibition.

MMORPGs will move towards having a real economy, where people live out their lives totally online. When you can make more money hunting monsters in a cave than coding in a cube, ill jump in too!

Actually, this is the concept behind Project Entropia. You don't pay to play, you just pay to have money in game and you get that money back out in real life too. I'm assuming there will be some type of commission, but if you've got the cash.. The problem is: I can easily see this being a much more destructive addiction than EQ has ever been to anyone. I can see people on the side of the streat bumming money for "just one more PED!" (Project Entropia Dollars)

The "Project Entropia" guys say it will be free to play their game, that you won't be forced to buy anything in order to play, and that you will still be able to participate in the economy. (I think we can rely on lots of opportunities to hire yourself out as a homosexual love slave, but beyond that I don't know.)

Project Entropia will have a real economy system that allows you as a user to exchange real life money into PED (Project Entropia Dollars) and then back into a real currency again.

But the house always wins ...

Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)

In the UK BarrysWorld has had a semi-successful p2p system for years - hosting servers for the most popular games and charging for league games, dial up access to lower pings etc. Sadly they went bankrupt last year but were happily bought up by (I think) EB.

As many have pointed out a p2p FPS just isnt going to work because of latency issues - a ping over 50 is considered bad by many FPS players. MMORPGS over come this problem by having high latency tolerant game systems - however that really limits the type of play. Even now that market is starting to stagnate due to the number of poor clone type games being foist onto the market in order to cash in.

project entropia has an interesting slant on all of this - players get the game and play for free but to get the most from the game they have to put real money into a virtual economy - check it out, very nice concept.

Of course the REAL p2p market doesnt exist in the states - people are paying to play games via SMS now ( mobile phone text messages ) and download the games to their phones. Once 3G ( NOT 2.5 ) appears with high powered mobile devices and good quality displays the p2p gaming market is going to EXPLODE!! In fact I've been developing a 3G p2p game for the last 2 years - anyone wnat to through me a few million? ;)

Project Entropia for a MMORPG wth real money and MindArk for the company making said game.

Currently in phase 2 beta, this game will have a virtual economy that will be tied to the real world. Players will be able to exchange the game currency for real cash and vice-versa. As well, the client will be free with no monthly charges. A virtual stock exchange is among many of the things planned for this game; whether or not it actually sees the light of day is another question, but it has been in development for quite some time now. I'm hoping to get in on beta 3.