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Spammer Gets Spammed
William L. Jones sent us a link to a wired story about spammers getting what they deserve: it amused me. What also amuses me is my new hobby:
I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket! Yeah! I guess now that we've evolved past sword fights, I need something to vent steam.
How about a print-off of the I Love You Virus? It's several pages long.
(OT sidenote) Some of our lusers ran I Love You, and had fax numbers in their address books, so our fax server got 60+ faxes to various people consisting of I Love You, and sent the code as text, 7-8 pages of it. Funny as hell.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
>the spammer [..] may be in his business because
> of factors outside his control like debt or
> bills for an illness in the family, etc
Why, I had not thought of that, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention in such an impressively verbose manner. I find myself filled with an all encompassing love for the spammer subspecies. Let's all hug.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
I was a Telemarketer for 3 months. I enjoyed it, the pay was good, and the more weird calls or ranting people I got the better. If someone had a good line to screw with me for a while it made my night interesting. I loved getting snappy comebacks before a hangup or anything out of the ordinary. So please, do Telemarketers a favor when they call you late at night, don't just hang up on them, say something witty or obscene THEN hang up on them. It actually does make the night more amusing.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Don't bother sending empty envelopes. Be sure you cut up their literature, old newspapers, etc, into small peices and shove them into the envelope until it can't take anymore.
;)
For phone soliciters, passing them off just isn't fun. You've gotta play with them for a while first. I usually give them a quiz about their product/service they'd like to sell (throwing in my own made up words as I go along) and see how well they do. Usually, they hang up before me
As for the spammers, those bastards got what was coming to them.
This isn't about punishment, or revenge. This is about making a business model we disaprove of non-beneficial to those who would attempt using it.
I once got a piece of mail with only my name on it. Then again, it was across-town mail in a town of 250...
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
The reason that people take some joy in this is that UUNET is considered to be pretty lackadaisical about fighting spam. Whatever their corporate mouthpieces say, their behavior suggests that they don't consider spam to be that big a problem. Or at least that they consider it to be somebody else's problem. Now perhaps they'll take it more seriously.
Note that this is probably not "an eye for an eye", in that nobody spammed them specifically to punish them for their previous spammer-friendly behavior; it appears that they just got buried in a normal spam run, the same kind of spam run that originates from their network all too frequently.
This is more akin to a policeman on the night watch who parks his squad car and takes an illicit nap, finding on waking that somebody stole his tires. There is a certain poetic justice that's less "an eye for an eye" than "what goes around, comes around".
Few would vote for raping the rapist, but equally few will shed tears for the rapist who, in spite of our efforts to prevent rape, is raped by a bigger, meaner rapist. Buddhists work to end the suffering of all sentient beings, but that doesn't mean they can't appreciate the beautiful symmetry of karmic balance.
You might want to try a different approach. Put an old sock, piece of cheese, or something else that will make the envelope look like it contains something largish (without being unable to close the envelope.) Seal it with several wraps of scotch tape. And put words "Caution: Rattlesnake eggs. Be very careful" on the back, in small enough writing that wont be noticed by the mail delivery people.
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
- Change. (Costing more in postage than it's worth)
I think it is terrible that you would rather spend your money to punish another than to take that pocket change and give it to a cause that would benefit from it (e.g. a local charity). I find it disturbing that you would encourage others to do the same
I would say that an eye for an eye is simply an enforced version of the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And trusteth me, they will if you do.
And of course the Golden Rule is also reflected in Kant's Categorical Imperitive. When deciding if something is ethical, ask yourself "what if everybody did it?"
And another reflection: Axelrod's work on the Prisoner's Dilemma. Someone who knows the phrase "Lex Talionis" has probably heard about this, so I'll leave you with this unexplained remark: Tit for Tat won.
Philosophers and scientists agree, an eye for an eye is OK and workable. Get into the 21st Century, man.
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MailOne
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
when i feel like sending a message to Joe's Credit Card company for spamming me and the postal service with their platinum credit card offers for the umpteenth time, i carefully peel out the postage paid return envelope and then shred the rest (not with a shredder, mind you, but the old fashioned neandethal way than really gives me a sense of satisfaction when it's done) and then send them back the resulting confetti.
35 cents out of their pockets, plus whoever unstuffs those envelopes gets a lapful of shredded paper. or, better yet, if they're done by machine, maybe my little act of revenge clogs up their cogs for a few minutes, and in the meantime, the machinery of junkmailing grinds to a halt.
i can dream, can't i?
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
I used to clip a good crotch shot out of a porno mag and send that back in those postage paid reply envelopes. You know someone's either going to be shocked, or happy.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I just tell them I'm glad they called. Because the bankrupcy judge forced me to cut up and cancel all my old cards.
JunkMail Removal Info
=-=-=-=-=
"Do you hear the Slashdotters sing,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh bother.
I made a sign for our frontdoor saying "Rawburt's flyer storage - We take care of your storage problems. Only $10 per flyer and day" and send a bill to the supermarket once a week. Unfortunately my SO didn't appreciate it and she forced me to change the sign to "No flyers please". Amazingly that sign works.
--- oops
They aren't relaying... Relaying is already turned off. They aren't sending it through my server in the sense that it's going to another server. They are sending it through my server in the sense that they are attacking my users.
They are spoofing headers and sending (hundreds of) messages to valid e-mail addresses.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
The stickers fit perfect in the Business Replies.
I may Marker on there "no thanks" or something.
Its not so much that we're happy... its more that we're amused - its funny in an ironic way.
I fail to see how the spammer getting spammed "hurt" him. You really need to come down off your soapbox and change your perspective on the world - I've rarely read such a skewed point-of-view. Your high-and-mighty attitude only adds to this.
Not that I'm trying to flame you, but really - it is amusing in itself how serious you seem to take everything, as I've read many of your past posts. Lighten up.
Hi! This is the Sig, blatantly attached to the end of this comment.
Most companies abide by these rules, so saying "please put me on your do-not-call list" very effectively cuts down on calls, and can be done without being rude to the operators who probably don't like calling you any more than you like being called by them.
Doesn't apply to charities, doesn't apply at work, won't bring about world peace, but it's something.
What's a sig?
Other types of mail income are used to offset these costs. 2nd class postage is a great example: a new subdivision called "Priority 2nd Class" has been given to monstrous magazines (think: U.S. News, Time, etc) To get their business, the USPS has given special treatment and costs, while those not qualifying (any magazine/newspaper under a zillion subscribers) have seen significant increase in postage. Example: 14% increase every other year. The post office has made it clear that these types of mailers are a hindrance, and a pain in the ass to the USPS. They would rather deliver sorted pallets by the truckload than break it down further.
On a smaller scale you'll see the same with 1st class. It's harder for the USPS to do this, because every citizen is affected by increases in 1st class mail, while only publishers are affected by 2nd class increases...Fewer people can complain..and so the raping of 2nd class continues.
Anyway, in the beginning, the USPS was in business to deliver your personal mail. As they grew, and tried to take more money, get more customers (Like all the dirty tricks they used to (and still do) against UPS) and allow bulk mail, etc, etc, they have since had to buy more facilities, more equipment, and many many many more employees. As they continue to make better bottom lines on large customers, they will continue to abhor your mail and mine. Our costs will increase. Eventually the cost will make us cut down our mailing. It already has. How many stamps can you get for $1. Ooops, not even 3 now.
I remember back in the '80s, once a month, letter mail that used to take 1 day to get here, took 2 days instead. What was going on? Turned out that it was all related to the day the new Playboy issue came out. Playboy paid a cheap automation rate that covered the automation costs of the USPS, but it was our 1st class mail that suffered, and paid for the extra employees and leg work that was needed.
Rader
It won't exactly be 30 cents that the recipient is charged because it's bulk mail, but I like the sentiment. You forgot to mention the 2 or 3 pieces of construction paper that you're supposed to fold into the envelope to make the recipient pay the higher rate!
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
The trick is not to go overboard. Instead of affixing a brick, find some old lead wheelweights, and put one or two in the envelope. It will be more expensive, and they company will have to get rid of a toxic substance. Enough people do this, and then we can report the bastards to the EPA!.
www.eFax.com are spammers
There's more information at Junkbusters.com which is very good for this kind of information. Incidentally, the fine is federally mandated (ie you and the marketer don't need to "negotiate", it's $500 per offense.) There are, I believe, lawyers who specialise in collecting the funds for a large cut, so if you're prepared to do the auditing, you can just report incidents of abuse and see the money roll in with no further intervention on your part.
Me, I just put the phone down on them. It's usually pretty easy to detect they're calling as the first few seconds of the call are usually complete silence, followed by background noise of other telemarketers in the same complex (prison?) at work.
The most important thing for people to realise is that these people are scum. Despite the obsession with some of the belief that if something is legal, then it is right, most people follow the basic rule that anything that directly reduces another person's quality of life for a minor gain on the part of the actor is an act of selfishness. Disturbing someone, intruding into their private time, with no regard to what they're doing or what effect it would have on them, is basically completely wrong. That's why we hate the calls.
It is legitimate to put the phone down without saying anything. It's also legitimate to (without resorting to abuse) tell the scumbag exactly what you think of them and tie up their time so they cannot abuse someone else and so they're made fully aware of the effect they're having.
If I were President, I'd cut their goolies off, but that's just me.
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You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I'd hardly call 'you could do something stupid' a reason not to fill up those envelopes. And even if they don't have to pay more for a 500g reply, if enough people do it your countries postal service will up the price for those guys... I'm all for...
But in this modern age of technology, we are also lucky to have access to the very useful black permanent marker.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
a buddy of mine: "oh really? well let me tell *you* about the *great* anal sex I had last night" ... click.
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BE CAREFULL! .com after the host name, in the name of helping out the user. As Localhost.com can tell you, they get tons of mail delivered to them because someone puts 'localhost' as an email address.
Not all email programs regard localhost as 127.0.0.1. Some (read: M$) may add
Personally I like to do two things: 1. Stamp the outside of the envelope with "See Mental Health Records" (An idea I stole from Markoff Chaney as my small contribution to Operation MindFuck) and then 2. glue the envelope to a brick or large rock. I then drop it in a public mailbox so as not to piss off my mailman (don't want to take the chance that he'll go postal). I've been doing this for several years now. I don't know if they actually get there, but it is a good way to kill a few minutes.
Illusion is the only reality. - Gustav Flaubert
I suggest using depleted uranium.
Optus FACSys for NT. Don't touch them with any length of pole. They are fuckwads of the highest degree. Their product is absolutely unsupported, they refuse to answer any question directly and refuse to answer questions asked by their authorised resellers. Their driver crash every few weeks, their server spits out error codes that can't be found in docs, or in their tech notes. Their "Exchange Connector" refuses to pass NDRs, and loses faxes every so often. FACSys is a piece of shit. DO NOT BUY IT.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I'm glad you like your new hobby, Cmd. Taco. Out of your appreciation of me posting the idea here, the least you could do is buy some excellent beef jerky form my site listed below. Have fun!
To the Moon!
http://www.beefjerky.com
Home of Final Frontier Jerky
However, I would feel sorry for the poor postal employees that now have to send junk mail *both* ways.
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Remember that the USPS makes a profit on delivering that postage-paid card. You're helping employ that postal employee
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I'll agree that lex talionis is not the best moral code (though OTOH, it may well have been an advance in its time--back then it probably lowered the amount of retaliation!)...but what in your "pity the poor spammer, trying to feed his hungry children..." argument wouldn't apply to any crime, however heinous? Sorry, but the perpetrator deserves punishment of some kind--actually, better still would be restitution. How about this: require spammers to pay for selected people or organizations' net access for a length of time determined by the bandwidth they screwed people out of.
Most prepaid stuff won't get delivered if its not standard size. It just gets dropped in the local garbage dump after being checked for letter bombs and the like. If you want to send stuff, it has to look and feel like a standard reply.
So what you're saying is that it is more humane to lock people away from 'normal' people, congregating them amongst a brutish populace administered by people who must for their own protection assume the worst of those they supervise, for an arbitrary amount of time determined by how much money they had and how well-spoken their attorney was and perhaps how politically distasteful their crime was.
No, I'm sorry. What you're saying is that we should realize that the perpetrator of the crime is a victim who must be treated and trained and assisted, who must be understood when they backslide and recommit the crime because of course the treatment is still in process, that we should not use punishment because it is damaging to the psyche - and of course the victims of the crime (other than the criminal victim) will have to recover as best they can without the cathartic closure of punishment but will have to gain strength from the knowledge that their pain was the first step to the recovery of another human being.
As opposed to a swift, certain, relevant punishment which provides the catharsis and the preventive measure, which can then be followed with treatments for both committer and victim of the crime.
What kind of giddy moral superiority do you get from assuming I like to see people hurt?
Empty is no good. People don't open the envelopes, machines do. They pull out the contents and stack them neatly and then someone picks up the stack and deleiers it to some poor sap who has to enter all the information.
Be sure to put something in the envelope. Confetti or paper chips are good, they can jam up the machine. Crumpled paper won't stack neatly in their machines. Small metal strips will jam the envelope slitting machine but since most machines slit the top and since the envelopes can be inserted either face up or face down, you have to tape a metal strip inside the envelope at both the top and bottom to be successful. Use brass or aluminum, they check for magnetic metal and reject those envelopes. You can also tape a bunch of papers to the envelope, it makes it so the machine can't separate the papers from the envelope.
(Info from a friend who used to work at one of these places.)
but perhaps that _is_ a solution. If this makes a spammer decide to find another line of work, the world is suddenly just a little more beautiful.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
I guess 100 a week is average.
Both, depends on my mood. So sue me.
XML causes global warming.
I've practised returning the pre-paid envelopes full of crap, mud and stuff over ten years now. Here in Finland (maybe everywhere in EU area?) that's not even a cheap joke but costs some 3-4 times more to the receiver than posting the envelope just with a stamp (as far as I know). Something called fun =)
//SaVa
Also, anything you return using a BRM envelope must fit in the envelope. Otherwise, the postal service will return them.
lead is cheap and it has a low boiling point. it can eaisly be molded into a volume that will fit into an evelope.
use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
-- john
With "Kiss this" written on the back.
When I was at uni in England the T.V. Licensing Board kept sending me nasty letters telling me to buy a T.V. License, despite the fact we already had one for the address. Eventually we got such a photo (which a friend had kindly left on a housemates camera that was laying around during a house party) and sent it to them in their reply paid envelope.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Here is soemthing my friend wrote recently on the subject of telemarketers and how to get back at them.
Click here to read it.
IRNI
I just discovered recently that Tennessee (and a lot of other states, btw) has a telemarketer-do-not-call list. I'm moving to a different county, so I've decided to put my new phone number on the do-not-call list. Now I'm just dying for a telemarketer to call me. It's an automatic $2000 fine. I don't think I get any of that, though. So hopefully I'll have fewer telemarker calls. And if not, some telemarketers will be helping to keep my taxes low! I'll kind of miss getting to be rude to them, though... Once I was eating dinner when I got a call from a telemarketer. After she started into her speech, I just set the phone down on the table. About five minutes later I picked it up and she was saying "hello...? hello...?" Then there was the time I was working on my car when my wife called me to the phone. I was pretty sure it was a telemarketer, so I answered, "Hi, this is Robert, if you're selling, I'm not buying. What can I do for you today?" The telemarketer didn't say a single word, just hung up! I'll miss that...
And my advice to people working in telemarketing is this: At least go get a job at the local McDonald's. People do not instantly despise you, and are actually sometimes happy with you for getting food in their mouths. You will probably get paid more too!
Better---send it to root at another, known spammer's site. Like people that make bulkmailers. It's kinda' like the strategy for knocking out Iraqi air defenses---don't hit the individual launch sites. Hit the controlling radar.
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Am I the only one who thinks Microsoft is a misnomer? Perhaps Macrosoft would be a better fit?
Just make sure you remove any personally identifying information. Tear your name/address off the top of any credit card applications or service request forms. The sprites at the receiving end may decide that your creativity deserves some creativity in return, and treat it as a completed application. Then you can say hello to MORE junk mail, and headaches involved in cancelling services.
Instead of trying to make it too heavy, try to make it too thick. Fold the stuff up a bunch before you put it in the envelope. You probably need to anyways, because reply-return envelopes are often smaller than the accompanying documentation. Get everything in there, including the envelope they sent it to you in. If you can make it puffy like a pillow you'll almost guarantee that it will take special handling and cost the recipient more postage. It's easier than trying to find scrap iron to fit in the envelope.
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
What also amuses me is my new hobby: I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket! Yeah!
Here's a way to make that method even better: instead of sending back the envelopes empty (which I assume you are doing), stuff them. Preferably, stuff them with some heavy objects. That way, it'll cost more than 30 cents to get them sent back.
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Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Maybe this could turn out to be a good idea. Give the spamers the run around by poluting all the search engines with fake bulk mailer compaines. If the people doing this all link to each other then they get higher rankings at the search engines.
Don't send them back empty, put something cool in it. I get enough junkmail that it's fun to show them the better offers their competitors are providing. Or maybe throw in a wrapper of what I had for dinner tonight. Or just send them the pile of extra junk back, you know those "don't open this unless you have decided to not accept this offer" pamplhets and such.
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Twivel
Empty? You send them empty?! Go to WalleyWorld or any other large chain store with a sporting goods section that caters to the pickup-truck-with-a-gun-rack-in-the-back crowd, and get a couple of pounds of 1oz lead weights. Drop one or two in the envelope and THEN send it back. 30 cents? Hah! Now we're talking real money!
Or do what a friend of mine has been known to do: tape it to a brick and send that (only he included his name with a polite request to not receive future mailings -- and you know what? It worked!)
Even more fun: Tape the envelope or reply card to a brick before you mail it.
How about you just enclose a single sheet of blank paper, folded, with a little bit of flour or cornstarch in it. When the pour schmuck opens it they're going to get some sort of "powder" on them, and just think what might go through their minds then...?
"Naw. It's not anthrax. I'm sure of it... gotta keep calm..."
Apparently some (all?) postmasters will refuse to deliver these
:)
In Canada I understand this to be untrue - ANYTHING with an address and put in a PostOffice Box MUST be delivered - no matter what it is. Im almost certain its federal law. This is why you can send mail without a stamp - it still gets delivered.
Oh - and I do the same thing with them, ive mailed shoeboxes filled with dirt
No, When I called, I had 3 options:
1. Opt out for 2 years
2. Opt Back in (Ha!)
3. Opt out PERMANANTLY
Maybe it's a recently added option, or perhaps you didn't wait to hear all of the options.
Best of luck!
Yes, this is the list you can submit your name and address to indicate that you don't want to receive unsolicited commercial postal mail. And to some extent it will cut down on certain types of regular junk mail.
But my old boss at Working Software, Dave Johnson, who wrote the chapter on direct mail in The High-Tech Marketing Companion, says that the Mail Preference Service has the very highest response rate of all - for certain kinds of product offers.
(For a long period of time Working Software made most of its sales through direct mail, and Dave became quite an expert on direct mail. This was after he nearly went bankrupt listening to "channel people".)
What kind of product offers sell through this list?
Studded dog collars, burglar alarms, personal security devices, gun magazines and in general products that are aimed at people who are concerned with personal security and just want to be left alone.
Being on the DMA opt-out list doesn't actually prevent you from receiving mail. Instead, members who care to bother (usually because they don't want to waste money sending mail to people who won't respond) get the list periodically and use it to prune their in-house lists. So for lists whose owners bother to go to the trouble, you will be taken off some lists.
But studded dog-collar vendors just take the list and print up mailing labels!
Michael D. Crawford
GoingWare Inc
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
Sending the envelopes back empty is for wusses. You should take everything they sent you (which generally weighs more than the prepaid envelope allows), stuff it all in, add a couple of sheets of neutron-star material, and post *that* back. The excess postage for prepaid envelopes is monstrous.
I didn't pay for my operating system either
James
Java is the blue pill
Choose the red pill
I agree. I've been saying this for a while now - usually after a chellenging commute.
Just wait until I get another of those junk mailers with a penny taped inside ... I'll send 'em lots more! Great idea.
sulli
RTFJ.
spam==one person sending questionable mail to many people.
feedback==one person sending a message to another person, in reply.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
The irony is simply amusing, that's all.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
--a picture had better be worth a 1000 words, it takes longer to download
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Taco,
To do it right, put washers and other scraps in the envelope. That way they have to pay even MORE postage due to the weight being too much for a common stamp to cover.
Has
futang futang!
I did this today for the first time. Much more satisfying thatn getting mad.
The best way to ruin your hobby is to try to make a living at it. Waiting on the paperless office since 1997
> I just wish there was a spam filter that you can
> use that would return unknown user like an
> account died, so the spam programs would
> automatically remove the user.
There is: Spam Bouncer
It is a procmail filter and it works VERY well.
i was at a buddies house one night and the phon rang, here's what i heard...
...mmm hhhmmm.....mmhh...mmmm hmmm....no we got goats...yeah we got goats and they eat the carpet so e don't need them cleaned....
along the same lines this freinds number used to belong to Stacey and Charles, people called all the time for them. we eventually just start playing off like we were them to people. once the phone rang freind answers: "charles? yeah hang on.."
hands the phone over too me. "this is chuck!"
some dude"chuck???...uuhh...i just wanted to thank you for getting me that money..."
me"oh yeah about that....i'm gonna need some of that back...."
dude:"wha-huh?"
me:"yeah, i'm on my way out actually i just stop by ok? later."
i wish i could have seen his face.
"learn to swim" - TOOL
The telemarketer will, of course, call back thinking that it was just a bad connection. I treat them to more "Hello?...hello?" until they're completely fuming. The telemarketer will start yelling, cursing, and generally making a spectacle of themselves in the little telemarketeer farm. Their boss will notice this (or find out through the call logs) and the telemarketer will be in trouble. After this is done enough times, telemarketeers will fear calling you.:)
I adminned at a call center once(incoming calls only), but I'm sure any telemarketeer will get in some sort of trouble for this.
/*drunk.. fix later*/
with a brick attached they have to pay for it
back in the day we didnt have no old school
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hmmmm... try as I might, I still don't think that's funny.
And what does soliciting for donations for (often) worthy causes have to do with spam?
And what flavor of crack are the moderators smoking today?
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But you forget - the cause is rarely the one doing the actual soliciting. The telemarketing companies solicit business from these causes. The telemarketing companies then can legally use that organization's name when soliciting money from individuals. The problem is that the telemarketers keep anywhere from 50% up to 90% of the funds which they raise in this way
As a result, I NEVER donate money via a phone solicitation. If there's a charitable organization which I wish to support, I always contact that charity directly and mail the money directly to the charity.
31337 haX0rs have taken control of our systems servers and are spamming our mail servers....please. what goes around comes around.
Unfortunately, that's just what telemarketers do these days. Some unscrupulous telemarketers even have their autophone system set up so that it only leaves messages on machines and will hang up if a live person gets on the line.
All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
A friend of mine runs a business from home with her father and two employees. Every time they get a call like that they tell them they need to speak with Mr. Randy Stevens. Phone calls for Mr. Randy Stevens get put on hold waiting for him because he's very busy.
So far he's already been pre-approved for 3 platinum credit cards based on his excellent credit record.
Mmmm.. Donuts
I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket! Yeah!
If the postage was *already* paid, the only thing you are costing them is the annoyance of having to open your worthless mail (AFAIK, they pay whether or not you actually use the prepaid envelope). Of course this, in itself, is probably worth it. However, I would feel sorry for the poor postal employees that now have to send junk mail *both* ways.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I've been doing this for years. Instead of empty I toss in some prizes. That way the person opening the letter will have something to talk about on their break. All kinds of things have found a new home this way:
- Little plastic army men.
- Out of focus photographs.
- Change. (Costing more in postage than it's worth)
- Lettuce.
- A printed warning about the Goodtimes virus.
One more to add to your list
- Used condom
Get them on every mailing list you know, find some porn-lists and put them there too. Go to a couple of freebie-sites and use the spammers e-mailaddress. Call IRS. If you can find a real mailing address, preferably a home address, subscribe them to every newspaper known to man, call 112 (that's our 911 in Europe) and tell them the spammers house is on fire. Send a package with 21 bananas, a can of maggots and a pound of roast beef. If you live nearby, sneak up to their office and nail the door shut. Paint the sidewalk outside their office pink. Submit a story to slashdot with the spammers website in the headline and get it accepted - repeat this once a week. Order expensive stuff in their name through mailorder. Send out fake advertisments in the spammers name.
--- oops
A friend of mine gave me a very simple approach to get to leave temporiarily: Answer the door with your phone in your hand.
For a more permanant solution, answer the door with the lower receiver of your AR-15 in one hand, and your cleaning cloth in the other.
I actually did a variant of this once: I lived in an apartment with an exterior landing that was shared with another apartment. In that other apartment lived (as near as I could tell) a large number of jail-bait teenybobbers who thought they were God's gift to the universe. They would
(Before anybody makes the obvious comment: I don't mess with jailbait.)
One day, my friends and I had gone shooting at one of their farms, and we had returned to my place to clean the weapons. The teeny's were doing their usual, hanging around being in everybody's way.
Funny, how people get out of your way when you have a rifle over one shoulder, a shotgun in one hand, an ammo can in the other, and have two holsters on your belt.
After the six of us had each made three trips from the cars, and had finally finished carrying the firearms into the apartment, and had started on the reflex weapons (longbows, crossbows, etc.), the teeny's disappeared into their apartment.
Funny, ever since then the aways got out of our way, never bothered my friends or me, and kept their music at a reasonable level....
www.eFax.com are spammers
It's only for 2 years, then you have to do it again.
---
Keith Barrett (kgb)
Red Hat HA Team
---
Keith Barrett (kgb)
Well, I very much doubt that you can be entered into a contract by returning a non-signed envelope. I would just ignore such an invoice if they sent one. If they tried to sue me, I can't expect a judge would take them very seriously when they said "well, there's no signature and there's not even a name, but this barcode here indicates that the defendant returned this mail
They may not be able to sue, but that won't bother them. They'll just send the "debt" to a collection agency so they can screw up your credit with the Credit reporting bureaus. Then, trying to clear your name becomes impossible because you have a semi-legitimate company saying to the CRB's "no, he really owes that". Bye Bye car loan, mortgage, etc...
Fax spam is illegal. There should be a number to get off the list, but often it isn't there. The FCC has info on their website - you will have to browse for it - but i seem to recall that there is a place you can mail the junk fax to so the government can prosecute it. One of the biggest offenders is fax.com - they send junk fax on behalf of The Center for Missing and Exploited Children, whose main sponsors are Computer Associates and Sun. (can you tell i did some legwork?) Anyway, many of these scum are trying to use a loophole in the anti-telemarketing law that has exceptions for calls made "by, or on behalf of, non-profit organizations" - this clause does NOT apply to fax.
Anyway, if you can find out who is sending the fax spam, you can prosecute them, and also the company who hired the spammer - every fax spam I have seen has some toll-free number to call to buy the goods/services advertised. I would suggest adding to your answering machine (if recording time permits) "This machine does not accept unsolicited fax ads. By sending you agree to pay a proofreading fee of $500 per page"
(alter amount to taste - probably between 500 and 1500/page) good luck
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
oops
Why NOT tape the postage paid envelope to a box containing about 40 pounds of rocks?
I do not believe this relatively primitive concept is universally accepted. For example, under this code one might accept that a murderer deserves to die, but there is nothing that says we are allowed to watch and relish in that death. Likewise, most of our drug laws become suspect if we apply the principle faithfully.
An eye for an eye is something we are still, for the most part, trying to learn. Most people do not understand the it's limiting nature, and instead, ignorantly try to use it justify excessive forms of retribution.
Fishing weights would probably work too. Fold a few into a piece of paper, stuff it in and send it. Mind you don't go over 15 ounces.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Jerzy Kosinski, the author of The Painted Bird, would do this with the lead plates used by his publisher to print his books.
Now, why could that be? Surely it couldn't be the Direct Marketing Association's powerful lobby.
However, in the US the junk mailers get a better rate than everyone else since the 1st class mail subsidizes the junk mail.
I don't think that's true. I've heard that they keep the price of 1st class stamps at pretty much what it costs to send the thing. The post office makes most of its money from junk mail, though, both the sending thereof and the selling of addresses.
Empty? No, tape them to hunks of steel or large bricks. Then you cost them a couple of bucks instead of a measly $.30. Apparently some (all?) postmasters will refuse to deliver these, but I suspect that isn't strictly legal. Anyway, it puts pressure on the PO to get things changed as well.
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MailOne
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
whenever I give out an address online, I make it unique to the recipient...
recipient_info__date@my.com
If that address ever gets spammed, I send an email to the person who gave out my address thanking them for the spam and informing them that they can have the rest of it. Then I permanently redirect that address to some permanent email address of theirs (like sales@ or service@) so they can deal with the consequences of their actions (and I no longer have to).
For telemarkerters:
tell the insurance folks you're immortal
tell the newspaper folks you're illiterate
tell the telephone folks you're telepathic
tell anyone else that you're in the middle of some satisfying goatsex, and that they can piss off unless they're Natalie Portman and want to hear the goat bleat.
You've forgotten the most important element:
-A very large spoonful of flour.
Not only does it weigh more, but when their letter opening machine gets to yours it either jams up or shoots flour all over the place, effectively disabling them for at least a good 10 minutes. Plus, in the event they open it by hand they get flour all over their desk. The possibilities are endless.
What also amuses me is my new hobby: I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket!
Even more fun: Tape the envelope or reply card to a brick before you mail it.
Great. To get back at junk mailers, you propose damaging multi-million dollar equipment owned by the POST OFFICE? Nice. Next time the price of stamps go up, I have you to thank, ASSHOLE. The fact that this post was modded up to 5 is simply more proof that most intelligent life has left Slashdot. Posting anonymously to preserve my hard earned karma. vought1221
No, not that UUNET fell over- the fact that it got back up :(
I saw richard talking to some of the members of the press.
.ph0x
who may be in his business because of factors outside his control like debt or bills for an illness in the family, etc.
Are you suggesting that its' not his fault he is spamming? Or that given enough reason it is ok to spam. So does this mean it's OK to rob a bank because my poor sick mom needs money for treatment?
You suggest that we can't pick and choose which victims to protect but you also can't pick and choose who you punish.
Now if only we could do the same to all the ribald trolls of Slashdot.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
How long have you held your WCOM stock? If it's long enough to be able to make a shareholder's proposal, please consider doing so.
There are probably some folks at MAPS who would very much like to talk to you.
You're close - the Anglicized version would be "Jehovah's Witnesses".
I did carry on a brief doctrinal discussion with a Jehovah's Witness to try and explain why I'm not a Christan. It was rough going. A JW isn't interested in hearing you say you've made a rational decision that their religion isn't for you, because reason doesn't really enter into it.
The best story I know on this subject involves a friend of a friend, who was actually working as a butcher at the time. Upon being forewarned that the witnesses were canvassing their block, he put his apron on and grabbed the biggest knife he could find. When they showed up, he threw open the door, and shouted back to his wife with glee - "Sarah! Guess what! More Christians!"
They didn't come back.
The first step, BEFORE you dump empty postage-paid envelope into the nearest mail box, is to affix it to an old telephone book with lots and lots of clear tape. _NOW_ you're cookin' on all burners!
**>>BELCH
I went to their website as described on their emails and unsubscribe.
Congratulations.. you just got yourself added to their "This email address is Real, and the guy reads our spam!" Gold List.
The Proof:
Well the next month they send me another email so I went through the same motions again, and it said that the email address was already marked for removal
You've just guaranteed that you will receive TONS and TONS more spam.
An experiment: Get a new email address, and don't give to anybody (as in nobody - don't put it in any mail program, don't give it to anybody, don't put it on a web page, make sure it's completely secret.).. then go to that 'remove' page you mentioned, and enter it in.. then check it next month, and see how much spam they sent it..
I just wish there was a spam filter that you can use that would return unknown user like an account died, so the spam programs would automatically remove the user.
Are you really that naieve?
Spam programs don't remove users, ever!.. spammers use bogus MAIL FROM: email addresses because they don't care if the spam bounces... think about it.. if a spammer cared if an email address was real or not, would they be spamming in the first place?
You get back at spammers by contacting their ISP, not by talking to them directly. Spammers are (by definition) scum, just like crap you step in. If you step in something unpleasant, you don't reason with it, you get a stick and scrape it off.
-
If the SPAM has a website, I'll got to that site, and look for a complaint form or email there.
- If the web site has an order form, I'll fill it out with bogus information like name="spam sucks", address="1600 pennsylvania ave", etc
- If they have a 1-800 number, I call that and leave a short message telling them no one likes spam
Any other good ideas (that won't get me arrested, hopefully)?XML causes global warming.
First, the FTC is collecting info, for possible action.
...
Forward the spam, with All Headers visible (different choices on browsers), to:
uce@ftc.gov
Secondly, if it is an attempt to solicit money for supposed investment purposes, it's the SEC's job to police these babies. Go to www.sec.gov and find the email address of your regional SEC office. Mine, for example, is sanfrancisco@sec.gov, but yours may differ. Then forward, with All Headers visible, the spam you get concerning investments (usually fraudulent) to that email address.
Why make the government do the work? Because until enough people complain and help all those Level 9 operatives, nothing will be done.
If using PINE, then just bounce the email to that address.
Also, always forward to the abuse@yourisp.com (or abuse-nonverbose@yourisp.com if they're smart) any such emails. And any legitimate ISPs (hint, not wierd ones, they may be spam collector sites) along the trail the email came. This helps them shut down those loopholes.
Most of my spam mail originates from a uu.net address. Which is kind of ironic, cause I own 400 shares of Worldcom, who own UU.NET in the first place. If something isn't done soon, I'm filing a shareholder's proposal at the next Annual Meeting
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Postage for "junk mail" does not subsidize anything. It merely keeps my recycle bin full. Check this link to the USPS website.
It's a story about the recent rate increases.
The important phrase to note is: Overall, rates are rising 4.6 percent, although price increases vary some by class of mail in accordance with the legal mandate for each class of mail to cover its own cost.
1. Just because you have to "push a button," it doesn't mean that the email is not spam. Websites that allow an email address to be added to the list or be sent mail without some verification can be construed as spamming. If someone else puts my email address in such a form and as a result I get added to a list, I would complain to the site's administrators. See also greeting-card spam.
2. Spamcop only looks up address from email pasted into its form, and clearly states "Please make sure this email IS spam" and "Report only email addresses and web sites which you think are used by the spammer. If you are unsure, do not check any boxes which default off. This will send mail to a network administrator. Please do not waste their time if this is not spam. The last thing we want is for administrators to stop taking these spam reports seriously." There's nothing to stop me from putting non-spam into SpamCop and complaining to random admins, other than the possibility SpamCop will disable my account.
Enjoy your job, make lots of money, work within the law. Choose any two.
I think the very best spammers have always been Jeovah witnesses (or whatever they're called in english; it's "témoins de Jéovah" in french).
Bt I got rid of mine indefinatelly, Ibeleive, as it's been a whole year and a half since their last visit.
The last one to knock on my door, I actually invited him for the post-dinner (supper) tea and dessert. My girlfriend was furious, but now is happy of the outcome.
I actually had their "blue book" at had (a gift of a friend of mine, that came to that very same diner for the occasion). This book is the definitive know-it-all book of answers for the doubtfull. They give this book to people they think have bought their story, to reel them into the boat.
After a lengthy (3hour) evening, I ended up ending the discussion by throwing the blue book (mine) into the fireplace. Ever seen Fahrenheit 451?
Beatty ran out my place, while I was reminding him my mortgage was for another 21 years.
It was mean, but worth it!
Karma karma karma karma karmeleon: it comes and goes, it comes and goes.
I recently got a letter from the NRA claiming that I had been "specially selected" from among the fellow gunowners of my community to fill out a survey intended to be sent to Congress to fight for MY second amendment rights.
Now, this is all well and good, but as a 17-year-old, non-gunowning, green party supporter I found it a little awkward that I had been deemed fit to carry the tremendous burden of this responsibility. I filled out the survey and also included a carefully worded letter to Mr. Wayne LaPierre. I requested that, though I did not register as a member as requested in the letter, that I still be sent the same black/gold hat that membership entitles. I thought it'd go well with my 16-inch Chartlon Heston Planet of the Apes figure (complete with ANSA space suit). Though I don't know if I was able to aid the NRA as they requested, I do think that this junk mail enabled me to vastly improve upon my Chuck H. shrine.
Junkbusters has a comprehensive list of mass snail-mailers. You enter your information, it composes the letters, and you print them out and mail them (addresses included, so no envelopes necessary). I did this and was amazed at the reduction in the amount of mail that I received.
Check out Chad's News
I like the solution that Abbie Hoffman proposed for junk mail: When you get something with a reply-paid envelope in it, tape the envelope to a house brick and pop it in the post. The spammer has to pay for the weight.
Hey, "evolve past swordfighting"? What's up with that, doesn't everybody get in a good sword fight at least once a month or so? ;^)
Me, I pick up a practice blade of some sort at least once a week. Good aerobic exercise, and if the code duello ever gets reinstated I plan to kick some serious butt
--Charlie
You can run up the tab on the shit that ends in your snail-mail box, if you don't mind some physical effort. Since it's bulk charged, the USPS doesn't postmark it. Take any or all inbound junk snail-mail, and drop it in the nearest corner box. It'll show up in your mailbox again in a few days, having been charged again to the jerk who sent it. If you don't mind having snowdrifts of this shit in your mail box, run up their mailing charges!
I usually only do this with a couple items of junk mail at a time. I prefer not to have drifts of this shit crammed into my box;-)
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
AAAAHHHHHHHH! Tornado! is pretty good too.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
So, if you really want to piss them off, remove/white-out/use a black marker on that code first, because then they can't get any marketing data from it.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
Go there and there is information on how to take yourself off some major direct mail lists.
MyopicProwls
MyopicProwls
My homepage
That previously mentioned semi-flappable image is illustrated here.
An 'Anonymous Coward' said: Look at lindfords own 'stats'. He claims that UNet causes 30 Billion spams a year. He also says that UUnet sends 2 Million spams a day. Tht just does not add up.
It sure doesn't. Read it again, properly. 2 Million spams is the number that hit Pipex' servers. I said UUNET send _far more_ than 2 million spams per day. I can assure you that UUNET spammers currently bulk 3 billion spams per year - divide that figure by days/year to get the average daily amount.
Steve Linford
The Spamhaus Project
...my pop was owner of a company and got several calls a day requesting donations.
he finally started saying "Oh, you need to talk to the corporate office, and ask for Mr. Wolf."
Of course, he gave them the ph. number of the local zoo...
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
Your nothing but a troll.
Trays of mail presorted mail eliminate any sorting from being done in the originating post office, and eliminates at least two sorting runs in the distribution centers.
Since you are an idiot, I'm sure that the thought that it is cheaper to handle a pallet of bundled, presorted by zip+4 magazines never crossed your mind?
Did you know that in large post offices the special magazine rates lowered the time to sort mail into delivery routes by 8%? That 8% adds up to millions of dollars, and is a good example of how the post office as a whole has cut costs and made itself self-sufficient.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Instead of "good" porn.. what about something disgusting?
:o)
I think we've finally discovered a use for that goatsecx link that keeps poppin up here!
there are, of course, the usual tales about pre-approval of pets, and at non-existent addresses entered by clerical error, etc.
:)
But my favorite of all time is from the late 80's. I'd just set up my practice (which is why I can place it), and was talking to my grandmother. She was living in the house she was born in, and received a letter addressed to her father. Seems he was pre-approved for a gold card due to his excellent credit--never mind that he'd been dead for over half a century . . .
now how in the world did *that* one get into the system??? 19th century birth records? death certificates? 1920's electrical bills? oh, wait, the house would have still been gas at that point . . .
That won't work..
Mail servers (even old ones, my experience only goes back to Sendmail 8.6, but IIRC it went back to V5.. it's probably in RFC 822/821 as well, but I'm too lazy to check) count the Received: headers on an email.. when the count passes a certain threshold (typically 25, but frequently much lower) the mail gets returned to the sender, (or to the postmaster if undeliverable.)
You might bump the load for the mailservers a little for a minute or so, but that's about it.
Let me also recommend Citizens Against Government Waste's report on the US Post Office's financial indescretions
Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
While I don't like the idea of any ISP (even UUNET or one of it's subs) getting hit this hard by spam, it'll take just this level of interuption of service before companies like UUNET start taking spam seriously. If a significant number (>5%) of the million customers affected by this cancelled their accounts, or even just demanded free service for a month or two, that would be just the right incentive for Pipex/UUNET to go after the originators of this spam full bore. Once they've done that once, their legal and security departments should be more able/willing to go after others in the future.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
What is the return on investment of these spamming companies? Are there really enough people buying their products to make it worth the spammers' while? The stupidest ones (possibly the second most profitable ones) are the messages that advertise spamming services. I can understand someone clicking through porn spam, but I can't understand anyone clicking through pseudo-Viagra spam.
Whatever happened to 'targetted advertising'?
Dancin Santa
One should also place the rest of the contents of their junk mail(including the envelope) into the postage paid envelope before you mail it.
I once worked for an organization where I learned of a "feature" with SMTP servers, which can allow for unbounded replication of a single email. Without giving out too many of the details, if the organization has both internal and external SMTP servers, a properly formatted email can replicate out of control. The trick was to play the two servers against one another by creating an email with multiple recipients all of which are within the same organization but are undeliverable. Each time the email is returned and forwarded it will be replicated. 2,4,8,16,32,.. you get the idea? I believe that Pipex stumbled across this same "feature" by indiscriminately sending to addresses that were scoured off the web. I wonder where I should put my latest email addresses on the web so Pipex can find it? ;->
I'm having trouble figuring out sendmail's spam filters. Are there any resources I can read that will explain how to stop spam with sendmail?
Hundreds of messages with the X-Authentication-Warning flag are passing through my server every day.
Are there any linux gurus out there willing to help me figure out the sendmail spam filters?
If so, e-mail me: mkaatman@mail.win.org
Thanks!
Matt
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I am in the process of reviewing other fax products. RightFAX and VSI are at the top of my list right now. As a bonus, VSI will run on Linux, which I would prefer over NT.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
So all the junk mail I get doesn't bother, because it keeps my mailing rates down (and I mail a lot of music CD's out).
If you eliminated junk mail, we might be paying $0.50 a letter and $0.40 each additional ounce, which would nearly double my postage bill.
Plus, all the junk mail we get helps me explain why we keep getting those Adam & Eve catalogs to the honey, "Well, we must be on some list somewhere. Say, look, French Ticklers!"
Or how about just stuffing them with tidbits of garbage? Then you don't have to take out your trash as often ;)
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
What I've started doing is telling them 2x that I'm not interested, and then I put the phone down off the hook so that they are talking to nobody!
This amuses me very much:)
Yeah, but when you get your bill for your 800 number and notice it went through the roof, maybe you'll think twice about using SPAM as a marketing tool, and would refrain from hiring spammers in the future. No market, no problem.
XML causes global warming.
Actually, for its time, "an eye for an eye" was a step forward from the previous primitive standard of "kill the dude, kill his family, and for good measure, kick his dog."
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
is that it applies equally well to prostitution, selling crack, contract hits, etc.
This "desparate person" is yharming other people to collect his minimum wage. That *does* make him a lousy person and a zit upon society's posterior.
I put a little twist on sending those postage paid envelopes and have been doing it for years now. Take someone elses Junk Mail ads and stuff those back in the envelope. You know, something that is just specific to your town, pizza coupons, tanning special coupons, etc... Fun stuff
i[Pipex is owned by UUNET, and according to statistics compiled by spam fighting and tracking sites SpamCop and SpamHaus, more spam gets spewed through UUNET than from all the other Internet service providers combined]i
Gee, could this be because of the size of UUNet and it's placement as a backbone provider?
It's like saying, "According to a recent survey, AOL has more novice users than all other ISP's combined".
I've sent 5.5" square envelopes with no problem on a normal first class rate. Maybe larger ones are extra, but not that size.
sulli
RTFJ.
Yes, yes, please do this. I consider it karma for all the times I do the same thing, because another side effect is that it cuts down on the total number of calls made, and that means that the chance of them getting around to calling me decreases.
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dman123 forever!
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dman123 forever!
Filtering out the -1s and 0s since 1999.
I guarantee, no North American tree is ever touched for the sole purpose of making paper. There are mountains of unused wood chips that can be used to produce paper. All byproducts of wood manufacture.
I grew up in logging communities. Certain types of wood are only useful for paper production, so I don't know that I buy your statement. Kind of like when people keep saying logging at alpine levels will grow back - it's the topsoil destruction that makes it take 100 years for even partial regrowth. I know, I've logged at such heights. Used to spend my summers, as a boy, floating around Kootenay Lake (in Kaslo, B.C., Canada) on logs, which is really cool.
However, you are correct that almost all trees are used for various purposes. I've made shakes and shingles from redwoods, used cottonwoods (wet buggers) for firewood (long drying period for those). A lot of B.C. trees are used for chopsticks, actually.
But decreased demand is still decreased demand.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I wish it would work that way in real life.
Check out Chad's News
email services, which I advertise on my home page, along with my phone
number. He wants to make sure that I've got a reliable connection,
because he keeps losing his Internet connection. I ask him why. He
says that his Internet providers keep kicking him off, accusing him of
spam. "But it's legal by federal law and by my state to send
unsolicited advertising". I hang up on him.
He's so stupid that he doesn't get it the first time. He calls back.
I know it's him because I've got caller ID. I pick up the receiver
and drop it.
He's not only stupid, he's persistent. He calls back a third time,
and I give him the finger again.
Stupid spammers.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
I have been sending back empty envelopes for years now. It gives me great pleasure.
Or maybe put fortune cookie fortunes in them...
Man, I have to find a site to purchase those in bulk...
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
While I am sure that this was probably just some knub-skull Spammer who sent 1,000 copies of the same mail to a list of 200,000 addresses. It still makes a point of what is going to be the only way to stop spammers. Legislation is all well and good but it takes time and in the end will only limit their abilities. What really needs to be done is a few more occurances like this to make "spam friendly" ISPs no longer accept such activity.
It's Pournelle & Niven, not just Niven
Sending back the postage-paid envelopes empty is a fabulous idea.
Maybe even better would be to do a switch. Take one piece of return junk mail and put it in a different company's return postage-paid envelope. That way it's 30 cents plus 2 minutes for someone to figure out what the hell is going on.
OK, so "taking it out" on the low guys isn't the best solution. Maybe telling them about anal sex or verbally abusing them isn't the answer.
One Mormon guy I know starts telling telemarketers about his religious beliefs -- annoying, yes, but at worst he's annoying, and at best he can hope he's changing someone's life. So why not try evangelizing YOUR favorite cause, religion, book, band, or whatever you think might make the world a better place!
TELEMARKETER: I'm calling to inform you about HomeSelect, a brand new program from MegaCard...
YOU: That's great! You know, I have something I'm really excited about too -- have you ever used the open source text editor vim? I've been using things like BBEdit and CodeWrite for a while, but vim is amazing.
(And now the question is, who will flame me first? People who don't like Mormonism? People who don't like vim? BBEdit Bigots? CodeWrite haters? I love slashdot! )
--
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
What about:
"Great, so I'll put you down for two abdominizers and one 'Super thighs in 30 days the Steve Jobs way'?"
"Yes...OK..."
"Great, I assume you'll want to use the address and credit card we have on file."
"...OK...yes."
"We also have the Jeff Bezos Power Diet Plan, boxed set, signed, for $49.95."
"...I see...Yes...OK..."
...can be found here. http://www.verinet.com/~geoff/Enigma/ You take control of the call and it causes them untold aggravation as you run through the questions. Ruger
Three words, "lead fishing sinkers". They are small, heavy, and fit inside the envelope so that no one will just throw it away at the post office.
I've heard that the brick idea doesn't get through a lot of the time and you are just wasting your effort. However, the lead sinkers will at least get to the company, and then they are actually billed for the shipping wieght.
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-As someone else said before me: Out of focus photographs or those ass-and balls-shots your uncle took of himself using the camera on the table at your family's most recent wedding reception - Change, especially Canadian. (Costing more in postage than it's worth) -Tampons, used or other bathroom products such as q-tips, dental floss, kleenex, etc. -Guppies, with a note attatched "Hope you received this in time!" :))
-Or best/worst of all--a chunk of Lutefisk.
-FIRE ants,,,,FIRE, FIRE
-Those goddamn stinky magazine perfume/cologne inserts especially in Sports Illustrated
-those AOL disks
-ash tray remains
-CHILI powder (with a picture of Flea, signed 'With Love')
-Those 20 oz pop bottle lids that say "Please Try Again"
-Pubes!
Thank you.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
Is it considered a glitch in the Matrix if my WinAmp playlist (2700 entries) shuffled to this song while I was reading your comment?
Seriously, it just happened.
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
In The Netherlands we have freely available stickers to put on your mailbox, to indicate if you want flyers or free local newspapers. IIRC, the delivery people are legally required to respect those stickers. Otherwise their employer can be fined.
If only this were true for spam...
The Canadian Rules are quite similar to those posted for the US
(at JunkBusters.com)
The Canadian rules can be found in this article at
the CRTC
I didn't dig too deep, but I expect, given this document, that there may be even tougher laws coming soon!
I usually get 5 or 6 spams a day from uu.net. I now send all uu.net spam to sales@uu.net and info@uu.net - they have begun to get annoyed, judging from the complaints i am beginning to get from the sales scum. I told them i'd stop forwarding their spam back to them when started cancelling their pink contracts. I'm starting to see a decrease in uu.net spam. I recommend that EVERYONE send all uu.net originated spam back to the sales people allowing all these spammers on the net. Anyone who has submitted an abuse complaint to them I'm sure is aware that it is falling of deaf ears. Send the complaint to some live ones...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
A first class stamp may be only $.34, but the business is charged an additional per-item fee. This can vary from $.35 down to only $.01, depending on volume. Hence, if it's a small organization, you're really sticking it to them, but for bulk mailers, it's not as big a deal.
(This was verified at www.usps.gov)
Im not new here, and I do know about all the typos that end up in headlines. But it doesn't really affect me, I know what he is trying to say, you know what he is trying to say, 99.99% of people most likely know what he is saying. I just don't understand why people get all hyper about it. Your right, you do have the right to post any way you want, but I just thought that if you feel so strongly about him being a "pretensious asshole" that you minght get more credibility if you were accountable for what you said. Another question, what's with all the cussing? I know it's your right to do thats well.. but whats the point? ohh well, have a nice night.
If you get, say, three credit card applications in a day, send two back to the third company. Keeps them guessing :D
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
About a decade ago myself and a few friends decided to take action to increase the demand side of the economic equation for recycled paper. At the time, supply of post-consumer recycled paper was about three times larger than demand.
What we did was go to all the libraries and workplaces we could, gather all the postage-paid subscription cards, and write various different economic messages, asking the magazines and software companies to use recycled paper for some of their material. For software companies, it was the manuals; for magazines it was just the insert cards (paper plants to produce clay-content magazine picture quality paper did not exist in North America at the time).
One of the reasons it worked was we had a limited targetted message asking for something that was not only acheivable, but was cheaper too.
For some of these we made stamps to stamp all the cards. Then when our group had collected a few thousand of the cards, we'd send off bundles of 100 or so in different mailboxes throughout the city. For a period of five to ten days. Which meant that thousands of these postage-paid cards would flood the target for weeks on end, from various places, and various people, all at the cost of the magazine which published them.
As a result, a number of positive things happened. Magazines started to send only three or four of those post-paid insert cards in the magazine (before we'd get 20-30 per issue, which kept falling out). They started using recycled paper for the inserts, and sometimes even the magazine (e.g. Science News). And software manuals started being printed on recycled paper.
And since demand for recycled paper increased ten-fold, new non-chlorine recycled paper plants were built in the US and Canada, saving untold forests from being logged.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I finally filled an envelope with a bunch of coins and 30 cents Canadian, telling them that they had won an "All expenses paid" vacation to Canada, with a little footnote saying "In the unlikely event that you incur more than 30 cents of costs, you are responsible for paying the remainder." I also added one stipulation -- they had to throw whatever lists they had with my name over the waterfall at Niagra Falls.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Take all of the junk mail you receive on a given day. Stuff it into any postage paid junk mail envelope you receive. They actually quit sending you crap after a surprisingly short period of time. Enjoy.
I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Empty. Eat that! 30 cents out of your pocket
Wait wait - Ive dont the same thing.. many times (after I had my name 'listed' to be removed from the Canadian Direct Marketers Association list.. lost the info on how to do this, but im sure it is around.)
What you HAVE to do is just tape your envelope to a brick, or a 12" log, or a shoebox filled with sand, or some other very HEAVY things - why waste only 0.30 of their dollars when you can waste MUCH more...
....by all those receipients who won't be able to Get Rich Quick until next week.
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
Anti-Spam-Defense-Shield.
I wonder if all those rolling blackouts in CA will have any effect on the quantify of spam I receive via e-mail.
And, I like the idea of sending back the prepaid mailers attached to something heavy. Most of that type of mail goes unopened in my house anyway...never thought to send it back at them.
To deal with telemarketers, you can tell them to put you on their no-call list. They typically have sixty days to get you off their lists. After that, you can sue them AND collect $500 per call (I think that's right). Just document the calls and build an audit trail.
Finally, if you have caller ID, if it says unavailable or private, then take that to mean your status as well. If its important, they'll leave a message.
RD
If you get spam that is from an addy that isn't in decimal and or alphabet form, then it is likely a website pointed to by a URL not in base 10. Sometimes spammers code their URLs into hexadecimal or octal so they can't be traced. Use http://x42.com/active/ip32.mpl or an equivilent to find the real domain it came from.
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It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
The post office will not deliver postage-paid envelopes that are clearly being abused. Read this article from The Straight Dope
My practice for years has been to simply set the phone down gently and let them talk on. Occasionally, if I walk by the phone a few minutes later and they're still talking, I'll pick up the receiver and say "Go on," or, "I'm sorry, I didn't catch that last part, could you go over that again," and set the phone back down. Sometimes they catch on quickly, of course, but some callers will go through their entire script without noticing I'm not there.
The point is not to piss off the telemarketer, that's just fortuitous. The point is to take up as much time on a fruitless call as possible.
Telemarketers' business models depend on their getting through the negative calls in as little time as possible. That is, they *depend* on us snarling and hanging up on them. If instead, the custom were to chat with them indefinitely, the business would become unprofitable, because they couldn't cycle through the negative calls quickly enough to get to a profitable margin of positives. In a polite society, telemarketing doesn't work.
I'm currently in Australia and it looks like the US post office has a 9 digit zip code for Melbourne. Anyone want to play with the post office to verify this theory? On a side note, at Christmas time, cards with US$.33 in postage got here 3 to 5 days faster than cards with the correct postage.
Junk mailers have automatic envelope-opening machines. Post office doesn't. This machine opens the envelopes and gets sparkled. Unless you fill the envelope too tightly it probably won't jam the mail sorters, which are designed to handle envelopes full of tax forms and the like.
sulli
RTFJ.
... maybe...
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
Rader
When I get spam (electronic junk mail?), I reply to it with some bizarre message. Someone sent me some weight loss offer, and I replied, putting thing like "munch munch" in between phrases... I realize few people will even see it, but it amuses me to no end...
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Indeed. A good bet is to:
a) use an email client that gives easy access to mail headers like mutt (you can get to them in {shiver} Outlook but it isn't as easy
b) Pay a visit to http://www.spamcop.net/ and run the mail through their service. SpamCop will check the ip addresses and compose emails to relevent abuse addresses for you.
Magazines don't have 6 pre-paid postals in each magazine...at 500,000 to 1,000,000 magazines ---already paid for. That would be a ridiculous cost of something that only gets less than 1% used. (or whatever the stat is) They could give the magazine away at that cost!!!!!!!!
Yes, they pay to get an account, pay an annual or per-issuance cost, meet a minimum, and THEN pay for each USED one. It's all barcoded to their account or OCR'd, and tracked that way. Pre-paid postcards or envelopes must follow VERY strict guidelines ranging from size, paper, and positioning to make sure they are completely usable through the automative process.
Rader
I've heard of, but never witnessed, people wrapping a brick in paper and taping the reply envelope to it.
This is probably illegal, and I don't recommend you do it.
-
From Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"
"Those ridiculous free introductory or subscription type letters that you get in the mail often have a postage-guaranteed return postcard for your convenience. The next one you get, paste it on a brick and drop it in the mailbox. The company is required by law to pay the postage. You can also get rid of all your garbage this way."
My old job had a help desk address that sent a confirmation email automatically whenever it recieved an email. It also got about 7 spam messages a night. One night the server somehow got screwed up and was sending the reply email about once a minute. This continued for about 10 hours. Heh, and they thought they knew what spam was.
Me: "Wow man, you called just tin time. You gotta help me. There's BLOOD EVERYWHERE. Can you get blood out? Aw man! And I need it done ASAP, before the cops get here!"
Caller: (*click*)
I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers. Heh...
took me a minute. Postage-paid you umean.
This has to be the craziest thing I've ever seen misreported. I happen to work for a Canadian web email firm. This whole issue was reported as though a mysterious "hacker" crashed their email system. Hardly so.
The email in question was sent in a number of ways. They relayed copius amounts through the ISP's own mail servers and others they sent directly to the sources and others still were using a RBL relay.
The spam attack was merely a name guessing attack which 90% of their dictionary generated emails did not go anywhere anyway. The RBL relayed email was blocked automatically. The directly sent email was sent to the bit-bucket. The spam coming from their mail servers was entered into the postfix configuration and the connections got a spam refused SMTP error.
So that would explain why their mail queues got filled up. Not our problem. Not the result of any "hackers". Just the result of a closely monitored email system with good anti-spam countermeasures.
increase the weight and annoyance of them. I have for years returned any envelopes full of twigs, rocks and, to certain tediously conservative outfits, decaying biomass...
I've a close friend who has used this method to dispose of all his old socks and underwear for the last several years...
1) Make sure it is junkmail.
The company I work for sends out large, somewhat plain, letters on behalf of people's employers. People aren't specifically expecting a letter from XX corp and assume it's junkmail. We get this empty return trick sometimes, often with some funny profanity on the envelope.
2) Don't put anything in the envelope.
Sometimes, people put junkmail inside our return envelopes. They think it will increase the postage bill, but I think the return is a flat rate (I don't know, I'm not in the mail room). The thing is that every once in a while people accidentally send us credit card applications and/or statements. One woman sent us some private insurance documents. Less trustworthy people might do bad things with these.
Just trying to help
-B
BUT, what about flyers such as supermarket ad's... Anybody find a way that I can Send these back as well? This junk upsets me so much more than spam email (which at least I can filter).
This mail only has four assholes! Completely useless in trying to engineer a five-assholed monkey! Besides, if you really wanted to be that which you claim of Cmdr Taco, you'd have made a script to SPAM this posting - in a twist of real irony requiring (at most) moderate intelligence. Suck suck suck. ROOT DOWN ~#
I've been bothered by a lot of faxes at home recently. The problem is that I'm using my phone line for both telephone and fax, so what happens is that the phone rings in the middle of the night, I have to go downstairs, take the phone only to find out that it's some stupid advertisement.
sending back emtpy (or heavily loaded) prepaid letters back to the sender might be a good thing, but how to get rid of the fax spam?
Ideas anyone?
One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
Why should we be happy when the spammers get spammed? Ponder this.
Lex Talionis, the principle of an eye for an eye, is a morally bankrupt code of law we've been moving away from for the past few thousand years, thankfully. It can't deal with the complexities of the modern legal order, and it ignores all proper justifications for systems of punishment: rehabilitation, prophylaxis, etc. It makes an assertion of rigid judgment in an attempt to avoid judgment itself. We can't live in a world without judgment.
Ask yourself this: should we rape the rapist? If not, why not? (Ignore for a moment that we essentially do rape rapists by committing them to so-called "maximum security" prisons where they get systematically brutalized and raped by guards and other inmates.) It's not a morally tenable position to lower ourselves to the level of brutes just so we can vindicate some idea of retribution.
Therefore, ask yourself why we should be happy when the spammer gets spammed? No one should have to endure the pain and annoyance of spam: it's the scurge of the online world. Not even the spammer, who may be in his business because of factors outside his control like debt or bills for an illness in the family, etc. We should be outraged when anyone is spammed, and we should put the full force of the state and the law against the perpetrator no matter who the victim! Picking and choosing among which victims to protect is something the legal order of former barbaric times did. I'd be disgusted if our government returned to those days.
Spam == bad. Victimization == bad. Why do people conflate the two? What kind of giddy moral superiority to you get from seeing anyone hurt?
Read the rest of this comment...
I worked for a place that did bulk emails with PP envelopes. One guy ticked that he couldn't get off the mailing list would fill the envelopes with old fishing weights and send back. We would have to pay for the excess postage per ounce.
$ unstr /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes
What I do is take all the pamplets, letters, credit card apps, etc. and shred it. I then stuff the shredded junkmail into their envelope and send it back to 'em...
... so they can spam their own abuse department :)
In the same token, whenever a website asks for an email address, I always use abuse@localhost or postmaster@localhost or root@localhost
A personal favorite. Pack the envelope full of dirt. Seal it at the post office with the nifty free tape. That costs them more than $0.30 and it makes a mess. Talk about givin em what they deserve...
(you don't have an email address posted, otherwise I would have sent this via email, 'cos it is quite offtopic)
> What we did was go to all the libraries and
> workplaces we could, gather all the postage-paid
> subscription cards, and write various different
> economic messages, asking the magazines and
> software companies to use recycled paper for
> some of their material. For software companies,
> it was the manuals; for magazines it was just
> the insert cards (paper plants to produce
> clay-content magazine picture quality paper did
> not exist in North America at the time).
I am all sorts of impressed. That's a really good idea. Damn, I wish I'd seen your slashdot posts when I actually lived in seattle last year, you sound (from a number of your posts) like you'd be a really fascinating person to meet irl (I'm not saying this in a stalking sense, honest! I'm really quite harmless)
Not only is there a street road there, but there's an East and West street road. Hope this mile-long Yahoo Maps URL works.
That was one of Abby Hoffman's neat tricks from Steal This Book. If it's postage paid, you can mail them a brick and the post office is required to deliver it (or was as of about 1968, unless the laws have changed), hitting them up for a lot more than $0.30. As he put it, "...this is also a great way to get rid of your garbage."
TomatoMan
-- http://frobnosticate.com
Dude, it's been *ages* since I've seen a postage-paid envelope to send payments with. Those days are over, welcome to 2001 :)
Read my stuff.
What I used to do was stuff those envelopes with a bunch of confetti, then send it off to thos mf...
And when I get those damn telemarketers calling me at inappropriate times, I just sit there, let them babble, then proceed to ask them really stupid questions, one after another, till they get really frustrated and hang up. Ha ha... Wasted those bastards as much time as possible.
Also, am I the only one or have these damn telemarketers started using machines to do their dialing and check if anyone's home? Lately I keep getting those "hold on for an important message" after I pick up the phone and say "hello". Then 5 seconds later a damn telemarketer picks up and starts preaching their crap.
I wouldn't say your wasting the USPS's resources. If anything, you're helping them out... don't think they'll let the junk mailer get out of it without paying.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
Why they insist on giving me "SUBSCRIBE TO ME!!!" cards in magazines I'm already subscribed to, I'll never know, but I love to mail them back in, often with stickers attached.
One summer I worked as a desk clerk in a dorm and there was an endless supply of time, business reply mail cards, and a black magic marker for writing "NO!" on each one. Musta mailed 10-20 per day for the summer.
When a telemarketer calls...
Me: What has a 1-inch dick and hangs down?
Marketriod: Wha?
Me: What has a 1-inch dick and hangs down?
Marketroid: Uh... I dunno.
Me: A vampire bat... get it?
Marketroid: Uh... sure.
Me: What has a 10-inch dick and hangs up?
Marketroid: Wha?
Me: What has a 10-inch dick and hangs up?
Marketroid: Uh... I dunno.
Me: (CLICK!)
Time was, people would take the blow-in cards from their magazines and avail themselves of the Business Reply Mail system by taping them to bricks, on the presumption that snail-mail charged by the pound for BRM. It was also popular to do this to the ubiquitous American Express applications.
Did it work? Maybe. The Annals of Improbable Research (www.improb.com), formerly the Journal of Irreproducible Results (URL to hijacked IP denigrated), published a study in which they had mailed odd and bulky items with correct postage and addresses. The USPS seems to have been imperfectly willing to maintain their unflappable image (what unflappable image!), so not everything got to where it was supposed to.
--Blair
"The bison's in the mail."
I used to mail those in blank for awhile too, but then I slacked off about it. When I read the little side joke on it today though, it got me thinking. Not trying to karma whore here, but I'm curious to see what people think on this one.
Is mailing back pre-paid envelopes a GOOD idea, in the long run?
At first I would say yes, sure it is. It takes away cash from them. But then I realized that it will never BANKRUPT a company. It will only force them to take away the pre-paid part of the spam. Here's some bullet points to simplify your responces:
1) How many people are REALLY persuaded just by the fact that it is prepaid? IE do you really think that the fools that send away for bogus junk and lousy magazines are thinking "Hey, I should get that, but it requires a stamp...oh wait, postage is free? Sign me up!"
2) For bad postal spam: All they will do is convert to non-prepaid envelopes in the next mailing. We still have to get it, groan, and throw it away. No time saved.
3) For GOOD postal spam: Yes, there are rare times when being on a techie mailing list means that you actually get some spam mail for something you really want/need/enjoy. It's rare, but if our policy was to mail these prepaid envelopes in blank, aren't we only hurting ourselves in that we semi-force those companies to change to non-prepaid mailers to save money? Yeah, it's 34 cents and no big deal, but why hurt good guys?
Just some random spam from my thought mailbox...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
--I have this cat, named Cat, who makes a meow that sounds like heh-row. Anylou, I put the phone next to the cat, or on her and after a few minutes she starts, "Heh-row, heh-row," into the phone. Must drive them insane.
This
Wrong, wring, wrong! The USPS is required by law to recover the costs for each class of mail from the postage rates for that class.
The reasons bulk mail costs less are:
Quis metamoderunt ipses metamoderatores?
...people are not only stupid enough to open unsollicited mail, but theyattempt to read it too (which must be very difficult if the spam in question doesn't contain "pictures"). These same image-oriented idiots actually send real $$$ and credit card #s to the sources to obtain tangerine-colored rhine-stone broaches, edible underware (instead of software), battery operated tummy-tuners, scathological porn, nazi insignia, and plane tickets to non-existant Florida vacation spots. Maybe one is born every minute, but I'm sure one doesn't die every minute. None of these people use freeBSD, Linux, or any of the other "esoteric" operating systems. They find the time to read all that mail between the editing of their baby films for the family and posting cute little ready-made throbbing heart.gifs on lonely hearts message boards. They love Windows Me. They love vacuum cleaner shaped, transparent plastic, candy-colored Mac desk tops and toaster-like CDrom readers. A final thought:until some genius of a geek hacker finds a way to delete the veritable and not just the virtual presence of these credulous illiterates from the universe via the WWW, we will just have to put up with more and more SPAM for breakfast.
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
Consider a scenario: I get a new 800 number, I contact a spammmer and ask him to spam with my new 800 number in it, and agree to pay him some amount on every call that i receive.
So isn't it that we benefit the spammer by calling the 800 number ?
just a thought. eh..
Another reason to stuff all the crap in the return envelope: The postal rate is determined by the weight of the envelope. I run their inserts through the shredder and put as much as the envelope will hold into it.
I've been doing this for years. Instead of empty I toss in some prizes. That way the person opening the letter will have something to talk about on their break. All kinds of things have found a new home this way:
- Little plastic army men.
- Out of focus photographs.
- Change. (Costing more in postage than it's worth)
- Lettuce.
- A printed warning about the Goodtimes virus.
To quote the immortal Nelson Muntz - HA HA!
Unless the rules have changed in the last few years, you can request at the post office not to get the random resident junk mail...
You'll still get anything specifically addressed to you, but the bulk "stick one of these in everyone's mailbox" stuff you won't have to deal with...
This is doubtful. Sure, UUNET is big, but not that big. If I look at the hit logs from the (large, J.-Random-User-oriented) web sites that I have access to, spam from UUNET dialups is way out of proportion to the hits from them.
And that doesn't explain why UUNET is also such a popular place to host spammer sites. The more likely explanation is that fighting spam isn't a priority for them. In spam-fighting circles, they're not known as "Spew-U-NET" for nothing.
Go take a look at the stats at Spamcop or at Spamhaus and it's pretty obvious that some big vendors are much worse than others about spam.
If you perceive a problem, don't be part of it, fix it. For now, use filters. Deleting an e-mail is much easier than recycling physical junk mail. Whatever you do, don't let them get ahold of another e-mail address.
----------------------
you should have reported that to spamcop. The problem wasn't the spamcop software (it got the message to you, now didn't it). The problem was with the person who submitted non-spam as spam. Spamcop has rules against that. The person who submitted that non-spam broke those rules.
And that's assuming that your customer didn't spam those people. Just because his website makes you push buttons to sign up doesn't mean he doesn't also augment his list with some non-opt-ins as well.
Never meant half of the things I said to you. So you know, there's a half that might be true - G. Phillips
How does making a typo make him a " Pretentious asshole"? And if your going to insult someone at least have the guts to use your name.
who decided that it was a good idea to evolve past sword fighting? if the duel were still an accepted way to resolve conflicts i think the world would be a more pleasant place to live everyone would be more polite at the very least. how much junkmail do you think you'd be getting if someone had killed the CEO's of those companies who SPAM or send junkmail i'd guess none.
junkmail and SPAM make my blood boil!
newbie has been railed by intel*[MS]*
My brother's phone number was listed under someone else's name in the phone book, and the telemarketing calls were always for the wrong person. One day, I must have been in a bad mood when they called:
"May I speak to Mrs. Smith, please?"
"I'm sorry, she's dead. I just killed her."
silence... "what???"
"I've just killed her. She's lying on the floor right here."
Turns out it was Circuit City of all places, and they must have thought I was serious. I got a call from the local police about 15 minutes later, and I could tell that the guy on the phone was trying very hard not to laugh...
... this works nicely (ie. the postage-paid envelopes), but what if you were to electronically reply (if it were a valid address).
Could you and your@address end up on blacklists?
I've gone a step better, I send thos business reply envelopes back with stuff in them!
http://www.wpidalamar.com/fun/telemarketer
Unfortunately, the USPS will no longer deliver these. According to rule 917.243(b) in the Domestic Mail Manual, when a business reply card is "improperly used as a label"--e.g., when it's affixed to a brick--the item so labeled may be treated as "waste."
God Bless Cecil Adams.
Spam? Nope, they signed right up for it, took several STEPS in signing up for it. At any rate, point is, spamcop misses, that was one example, but I had this happen to me quite a few times.
I like music
Glazik
I have a friend (really I do) who gets a kick out of mailing all sorts of things (without packaging); some that come to mind:
* a single can of Bud
* a shoe
* one roll of toilet paper
* a bikini bottom
* a stuffed rodent of some sort
As a side note, he worked as a waiter to pay some one to goto college for him, got a 3.0 GPA and is a stock broker in NYC now.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
One important difference between postage guaranteed postcards and BRM postcards is that BRM postcards can not be taped or attached to other things. Also, anything you return using a BRM envelope must fit in the envelope. Otherwise, the postal service will return them.
Other times, I argue about the price or quality of their product for five or ten minutes before they realize just how much money they're losing on me. The beleaguered voice of a telemarketer saying "But... but... there's no monthly fee!" can make me laugh like nothing else.
That was a great site! The scientific language kills me. They neglected a fruitful area of inquiry though: malformed addresses on otherwise normal items of mail. Heinlein commented in one of his books about receiving an (international!) piece of mail addressed to "Robert Heinlein, The United States". That was the sole address and (obviously) it got to him.
--
MailOne
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
I think putting a slice of Spam (Hormel's mystery meat product) into the BRM envelope would result in some poetic justice, especially if it takes a long time to reach the junk mailer (/me retches uncontrollably.)
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
Paper junk mail might be annoying, but there are opt-out lists, and the mailers do normally respect them, sometimes because there are laws saying they have to, but also because they have to pay to send the mail out, and want to do anything they can to improve their rate of return. (If you've asked to be taken off a mailing list and an incompetent company has ignored you, then fine, mail them inoffensive junk back reply paid until they get the message).
email spammers are completely different - they aren't paying to send the stuff, so they couldn't care less how many addresses that aren't interested get used, so long as a few recipients are interested. I think half the time the company selling the product has been conned by a spam "marketing" company who get paid anyway so they don't even care if _nobody_ is interested, so long as they can invoice for sending some huge number of adverts.
--
rant
go get em the f@$&ers, how can we get the ones on the phone? this should be an international vendetta!
I also send back the prepaid envelopes on junk mail, but with as much of the junk stuffed into it as possible too.
-Duncan
I often prefer displaying my real email on web site, on news groups, because I love fighting spammers. we have _tools_. *grin*
:
:b e.en.html ;-)
:
:
t ml
:
uce :
before spam
http://www.devin.com/sugarplum/ to protect your webserver from search bots.
teergrubing to protect your MTA
http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/teergru
(and of course, hide your email like that : xavieratbocaldotcsdotunivdashparis8dotSPAMfr
after spam
http://spamcop.net/
http://www.samspade.org
http://mail-abuse.org(RBL)
tools to semi-automaticly report/fight spam
http://freshmeat.net/appindex/console/anti-spam.h
irl
As other says, send back the empty enveloppe.
One funny thing about phone spam is the possibility to talk to the person which is trying to sell you something, like to a human being. (after all, it's often a woman poorly payed to do this job. she(he) deserve humanity). I usually ask if the person is in good mood, and it's easier to say goodbye after this.
(sending recipient-paid envelopes back)
Hey, I just started doing that too! But why empty? That just makes it easier for them to sort out. Waste their TIME too. Have no use for that old Linux HOWTO printout? Stick a couple pages in there. Or some of the company's own flyers. Just don't send them back anything that has anything printed on it that would let them know who did it.
Now if only I could figure out a way to Jam that bundle of loose ads (no envelope, like you'd find in the middle of a newspaper, but with more stuff of different sizes and materials) that they deliver every thursday... What, did the postman suddenly become the paperboy? It forces you to go through to make sure you aren't accidentally about to throw out your electric bill.
I once received crap from some idiot who was sending me Spam with return enveloppes included but they were "return postage garanteed" enveloppes. The company HAS to pay the post office the postage due on what ever they received.
It turned out that just about everybody in my office had received the same mailing. We taped the cards to bricks. The Spammer had to pay for sending about a hundred bricks through the mail.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
This may be a way for them to confirm.
If they have a domain, trace it back to their provider! Let their provider cut off the service or their provider's provider do it.
I have called spammers and they hang up, so I call back and explain to them how rude it is.
What we have to do is to stop the people providing the SPAM lists. What about the SPAMMERs using open relays being charged with the computer tresspass statute--for using a mail relay w/o authorization?
Fight Spammers!
I get this email from www.winamilliondollers.com all the time. I went to their website as described on their emails and unsubscribe. Well the next month they send me another email so I went through the same motions again, and it said that the email address was already marked for removal, to wait 24 hours. I got another email the next month, so I decided to take some real action.
I looked up their uplink's email addresses to admin and such, add them to the spammer's spam list (thru the website) then added the spammer's own email addresses to the spamlist, then added a few random email addresses like @aol.com gary7@gary7.nsa.gov, and a few random ones i could think up.
After a week i got a response from the spammer that told me they removed me, from their mail list and a casino mail list.
2 months later they are back in my inbox.. (this week) So, it's time to start calling some isp's.
I prefer not to use spam filters cuz it just wastes bandwidth. I like to get the problem resolved at the source. This past weekend I emailed a postmaster and had one spammer killed (or so the postmaster emailed me back they removed the account).
Far as junk mail goes, I usually just rip it up and toss it, but now I belive I will be ripping up random things then sending them back. I have heard of ppl joking about junk mail being garbage and sending banana peels and other items capable of growing mold (coffee grounds anyone?)
I just wish there was a spam filter that you can use that would return unknown user like an account died, so the spam programs would automatically remove the user.
What pathetic MTA were they using? 2 million messages brings 8 mail servers to their knees? When BUGTRAQ was on netspace we had it running through zmailer, and we once got out 1.2 million mail messages in one day with a P133 with 128 megs of RAM.
I have it (on fairly good authority) that the best (worst) thing you can do to a junk mailer is send back those postage paid envelopes with an oz or so of the "sparkles" you can get in most craft shops.
They are stick tenaciously to EVERYTHING, including the scan heads of the mail sorters, and jam up the works. Word has it that it takes about 1/2 hour to clean up after this happens
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
What you can also do is to put them on hold. Elevator music didn't kill anyone yet and after 10 minutes you can always say that something really important (Oh Ma-m, I've just been decapitated - I have to run) happened.
Unfortunately none of those tricks (including requests to remove from the list etc) work for Austin American Statesman - the worst telemarketer in Austin. And people who work for them are stupid.
I had a verbiage on my answering machine that says "If you are from Austin American Statesman - never call me again about your subscriptions, I won't buy it". And then they called me again. Lady said "But this is not about the subscription. It's a special offer and you can get our paper for just $$$ a week". After short lection about what the subscription is I had to hang up on he.
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Hyperom.com
"I now send the postage-page envelopes back from junk mailers." I know someone given to using spamware on spammers after tracking them to their often vague sources. He opens accounts where they have accounts then automatically forwards their stuff back to them after replying so they believe he's interested in their crapola. So far this has only created local mail "feedback" phenomena, normally in England. It does less harm to the "mother" system than believed, because the server has no choice but to remove the two accounts. Besides England, Israel seems to be pretty good Spam-wise.
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
NERO is the worst piece of crap I've ever played. It's wannabe swordfighting combined with wannabe roleplaying, and it does neither effectively. Those pansies couldn't use a sword to save their lives. You want real sword fighting without some twink throwing bags-of-sand-that-are-supposed-to-be-spells at you? Try the SCA or one of the other many great sword fighting or rapier deuling groups in this world. Pussy gnome.
This is an urban legend. These bricks are not properly packaged according to US postal service regulations, therefore they are thrown away.
Will the last company to abandon Linux please turn off the lights??!
Every cool hack has a downside...
I read the fine print on the back of one of the many credit card mailings I receive several times a month. It listed a special Toll-Free number you could call to get off of all the major credit reporting agencies' mailing lists. Just dial 1-888-5OPTOUT The downside is that you have to give your Social Security Number, but all the Credit Agencies have that already. You can opt to stop receiving Credit Card applications PERMANANTLY. Does it work? Time will tell...
Don't return the envelope empty. Tear up every insert they send you and the original envelope into small pieces. Write "VOID! PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST!" anywhere your name appears. Insert these into the prepaid envelope and mail. The shreds of paper will jam the average automated Pitney Bowes letter opener.
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
I've found an effective method of dealing with spammers. I look up who owns the web site which is sending me spam, then send an email to the owner telling them the following:
To Whom It May Concern:
I recently recieved the attached email advertising your site. Due to the rising costs of internet access and the space which downloading email takes up, further emails advertising your site will be considered your electronic signature that I may send you a bill for $500 per email. This bill is for downloading and archival fees. All bills will be sent to the following address:
[copy and paste of billing contact for domain name]
Thank you for your time.
I usually never hear from them again.
~Ken
Ever have a hard time finding the actual *bill* in your credit card bill for all the extra ad inserts or maybe you had to tear an ad off the return envelope before you could even use it? I like to tear up all that extra crap and stuff it in the envelope with the payment! Of course, none of them have stopped.. it just makes me feel better.
Ocrates
follow the link in my sig.
to find out how you can ruin a spammers day
and even cost them money
http://Lenny.com